# Itachi vs Kisame.



## The Great One (Mar 24, 2017)

MOOOORRRRTAAAAALLLLLLL
 KKKKKKKOOOOOOMMMMMBBBBBAAAATTTTTTT...


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## WorldsStrongest (Mar 24, 2017)

Itachi is above kisame in every stat bar stamin a and brute force...really see no way the fish can win here.


Itachi has 3 OHKO techs that kisame cannot dodge, counter or otherwise avoid or defend against.

Amaterasu, Tsukuyomi (or really just genjutsu in general) and Susanoo/Totsuka blade.

Amataerasu cannot be absorbed by samehada...it is showing being in great pain from PARTIALLY absorbing itachis basic fire ball...

And i reiterate...PARTIALLY...it didnt even absorb the entire technique

Kisame is also nowhere near fast enough to get samehada in front of him in time to block amaterasu to even attempt to absorb it...It will hit him directly 10 times out of 10 and he cant remove the flames no matter what he does...so he will die as a result.

Amaterasu is also water proof...so his suiton advantage means kjack against it...he can literally camp in waterdome, but of itachi sees him he gets lit up with black flames and burns to death underwater...

BECAUSE SCREW SCIENCE


Tsukuyomi is landed very easily...all itachi needs to do is force eye contact and kisame is GGd regardless of any genjutsu skill...which spoiler alert...Kisame doesnt have.

Itachi was able to blitz Hebi Sasuke...who had 3T precog at the time and is tiers faster than kisame...and force eye contact and use tsukuyomi on him.

Kisame is literally like taking candy from a baby by comparison.

Kisame is trolled by basic sharingan 3T as well...itachi has no need to pull out the big guns but it is an option nonetheless.

And as for susanoo...

Kisame cant break it once itachi hits V3...an argument can be made taht kisame can bust anything below that imo....but V3 is the absolute limit...kisame cant scratch it if it gets to this stage.

He would also eventually be tagged by Totsuka and 1 shotted.

Itachi pulls out a single MS tech and he wins...

Made this post while eating lunch...so pardon the lack of scans and whatnot

Figured it was a safe bet i wouldnt need any on this topic

Reactions: Winner 1


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## The_Conqueror (Mar 24, 2017)

Itachi wins mid difficulty at most.

K*isame: **Potrayal: Even you can take him I am not sure of myself [1] [2]*
*Dealing with sharingan: You cannot go in eye to an with sharingan (3) which kisame has never shown while itachi can take you instantly with tsukyomi (4) as kakashi explains once you are caught in it there is no way Out .*

*Amaterasu:  Kisame has neither speed or reflex to Dodge amaterasu nor any way to deal with it. Samehada had trouble absorbing fodder c(6) level katon. What if itachi goes for a head shot?*
*Samehada also has shown to betray kisame so he would obviously betray(8) if he has to absorb the highest level of katon when it was in pain absorbing fodder katon*

*Itachis speed reflexes precognition are undoubtedly better than kisame while itachis jutsu execution is so fast that even sharingan users could not pick up on it (10) also has best feinting feats (11)  so between exploding bunshins crow clones genjutsu and his fighting style limited due to sharingan kisame doesnot stand much of a chance.*
*There is also susanoo and*
*izanami (kisame did not know what his purpose was so it would obviously work on him)*

*Edit:Lol at my maths 123468*


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## Troyse22 (Mar 24, 2017)

Kisame, mid diff at the absolute most.

His knowledge on Itachi is second to none, hes seen how he applies his genjutsu as as its effects. 
Hes seen Amaterasu, he knows it's fast but he undoubtedly knows it has a travel time, even A4 was able to figure that out despite never having seen it before.

He has reactionary feats supporting the fact that he can block Amaterasu with Samehada

Hes done everything from dodging outright blindside attacks



to countering a 3 way blitz, one of the participants of this blitz was one of the best Kenjutsu users in the manga, Killer Bee



Remember that he did this



to V1 Killer Bee.

The same Killer Bee that even Sasuke with his MS precog couldn't even see or react to from close distances, which Kisame did with absolutely no difficulty.



He has amazing reactionary feats that support the facts that he can block and react to Amaterasu.
He has too much knowledge on Itachi's jutsu, especially his genjutsu.


If Kisame was going in blind vs Itachi (no knowledge), he'd lose, I don't dispute that, but with the amount of knowledge he has on Itachi, there's no feasible way he can lose. Kisame has more knowledge on Itachi than Itachi has knowledge of Kisame, this is made consistently evident in the manga, Kisame has never used his big moves in front of Itachi. To say Itachi's seen his huge techs like the Kisame/Samehada merge, waterdome and Daikodan is a pretty baseless assumption.

Itachi's ultimate defense is nothing in front of Kisame, Susanoo is a chakra construct, and guess what?



It would go right through Susanoo, which Itachi would undoubtedly try to block with Yata and Susanoo, and kill Itachi on the spot, considering Itachi has no durability feats worth mentioning.

What makes Yata Mirror an extremely effective is its ability to change its chakra to the thing hitting it, however, Kisame is the ultimate counter to this, as Daikodan "inhales" the jutsu it wants to absorb, without actually colliding with it, this would apply to Yata and Susanoo. In the face of Daikodan, Yata mirror is useless, as well as Susanoo.


Kisame wins with low-mid difficulty due to his extensive knowledge on Itachi and all of his abilities bar Susanoo, but anyone with eyes can tell Susanoo is a chakra construct.


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## Bonly (Mar 24, 2017)

Genjutsu walls Kisame, Ama puts down Kisame, Totsuka blade puts him down, Itachi's speed and clone feints give Kisame problems which then give Itachi openings, Susanoo walls Kisame's attacks etc. Kisame is outclassed in every area bar stamina and strength upon which Itachi can get around. Itachi's just on another lvl and Kisame himself knows it.


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## Troyse22 (Mar 24, 2017)

Bonly said:


> Genjutsu walls Kisame, Ama puts down Kisame, Totsuka blade puts him down, Itachi's speed and clone feints give Kisame problems which then give Itachi openings, Susanoo walls Kisame's attacks etc. Kisame is outclassed in every area bar stamina and strength upon which Itachi can get around. Itachi's just on another lvl and Kisame himself knows it.



You keep living with that blindfold on.

Ignorance is bliss.

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## Bonly (Mar 24, 2017)

Troyse22 said:


> You keep living with that blindfold on.
> 
> Ignorance is bliss.



You keep living with that Kisame penis on you

Ignorance is bliss

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Troyse22 (Mar 24, 2017)

Bonly said:


> You keep living with that Kisame penis on you
> 
> Ignorance is bliss





You keep living with that Katsuyu penis on you 

But seriously, your post doesn't take into account knowledge or anything.

It's a generally weak post, and I hope you don't think you're convincing anyone with that crap


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## Trojan (Mar 24, 2017)

itachi wins. Kisame himself admitted inferiority, no need for fan-fiction.


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## Troyse22 (Mar 24, 2017)

Kisame's admission of inferiority is irrelevant from P1, when his P2 feats and hype are directly contrary to that.

Don't let Minato and Sannin wankers fool you OP, there's a reason my sig exists.


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## Bonly (Mar 24, 2017)

Troyse22 said:


> You keep living with that Katsuyu penis on you



Katsuyu is a girl, she doesn't have a penis. 



> But seriously, your post doesn't take into account knowledge or anything.



No my post does, you just assume it doesn't because I don't agree with you.



> It's a generally weak post, and I hope you don't think you're convincing anyone with that crap



My job isn't to convince anyone here. I'm just posting my opinion on the matched up based on what we saw in the manga, upon which Itachi got this in the bag.


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## Troyse22 (Mar 24, 2017)

Bonly said:


> Katsuyu is a girl, she doesn't have a penis.



How do you know, maybe she has both 



Bonly said:


> No my post does, you just assume it doesn't because I don't agree with you.



Quote the part of your post where you considered Kisame's insane amounts of knowledge on Itachi's jutsu, i'll wait.



Bonly said:


> My job isn't to convince anyone here. I'm just posting my opinion on the matched up based on what we saw in the manga, upon which Itachi got this in the bag.



So you're being intentionally ignorant...interesting....


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## Bonly (Mar 24, 2017)

Troyse22 said:


> How do you know, maybe she has both



Sounds kinky 





> Quote the part of your post where you considered Kisame's insane amounts of knowledge on Itachi's jutsu, i'll wait.



I don't need to state the obvious. Just like I don't need to state that Itachi has knowledge on Kisame. Or do you want me to mention every little thing? Do you want me to mention that Itachi knows that Kisame has a dick? Do you want me to mention that Itachi knows that Kisame is a swordsmen? Do you want me to mention that Itachi knows what village Kisame is from? Do you want me to mention that Itachi knows what Samehada is and do? Or can we be smart and already know that without specifically mentioning it?





> So you're being intentionally ignorant...interesting....



I'm being as intentionally ignorant as you are when you claim Kisame is equal to(or above) Nagato and can beat Pain.


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## Troyse22 (Mar 24, 2017)

Bonly said:


> I don't need to state the obvious. Just like I don't need to state that Itachi has knowledge on Kisame. Or do you want me to mention every little thing? Do you want me to mention that Itachi knows that Kisame has a dick? Do you want me to mention that Itachi knows that Kisame is a swordsmen? Do you want me to mention that Itachi knows what village Kisame is from? Do you want me to mention that Itachi knows what Samehada is and do? Or can we be smart and already know that without specifically mentioning it?





Troyse22 said:


> If Kisame was going in blind vs Itachi (no knowledge), he'd lose, I don't dispute that, but with the amount of knowledge he has on Itachi, there's no feasible way he can lose. Kisame has more knowledge on Itachi than Itachi has knowledge of Kisame, this is made consistently evident in the manga, Kisame has never used his big moves in front of Itachi. To say Itachi's seen his huge techs like the Kisame/Samehada merge, waterdome and Daikodan is a pretty baseless assumption.







Bonly said:


> I'm being as intentionally ignorant as you are when you claim Kisame is equal to(or above) Nagato and can beat Pain.



I don't think Kisame is above Nagato, I think Kisame=Nagato Nagato=Kisame

I also take into account every little thing when I make these statements, unlike you


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## Bonly (Mar 24, 2017)

Troyse22 said:


>



Your post means nothing. I didn't say Itachi has full knowledge on Kisame, I just said he has knowledge on him, there's a difference.





> I don't think Kisame is above Nagato, I think Kisame=Nagato Nagato=Kisame
> 
> I also take into account every little thing when I make these statements, unlike you



If you take in every little thing then you wouldn't get Kisame=Nagato  So looks like you do it as much as I do


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## Sapherosth (Mar 24, 2017)

Troyse, you showed us a panel of Kisame barely dodging a raiton pencil. 

Raiton pencils are far slower than Amateratsu, not to mention the fact that Amateratsu is bigger so it has a wider surface area, meaning Kisame has to completely avoid it which isn't possible. He can't just weave his head and dodge it. 


Secondly, Kisame was hit by a straight up lariat from V2 speed....No reason why Tosuka stab won't plow right through Samehada and Kisame since it's a living creature.


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## Troyse22 (Mar 24, 2017)

Bonly said:


> Your post means nothing. I didn't say Itachi has full knowledge on Kisame, I just said he has knowledge on him, there's a difference.



The knowledge gap is huge, which you're trying to downplay, that's the problem here.



Bonly said:


> If you take in every little thing then you wouldn't get Kisame=Nagato



That's your opinion, it's clear most posters don't consider every aspect of a lesser popular Shinobi when discussing more popular Shinobi. Whether it's intentional or not is irrelevant.


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## Troyse22 (Mar 24, 2017)

Sapherosth said:


> No reason why Tosuka stab won't plow right through Samehada



You're one of better debaters when discussing Itachi, but i'm gonna go ahead and give you a chance to delete that because i'm sure you can see what's wrong with it.



Sapherosth said:


> Troyse, you showed us a panel of Kisame barely dodging a raiton pencil.



Dodging anything of decent speed in a blindside attack is impressive no matter how you try to spin it



Sapherosth said:


> Raiton pencils are far slower than Amateratsu, not to mention the fact that Amateratsu is bigger so it has a wider surface area, meaning Kisame has to completely avoid it which isn't possible. He can't just weave his head and dodge it.



He can block his entire body with Samehada.

If he gets tagged with it it's not an instant kill shot either, we saw A4 continue to press the attack against Sasuke despite being hit by it. He can simply place Samehada where ever it has hit and absorb it.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Bonly (Mar 24, 2017)

Troyse22 said:


> The knowledge gap is huge, which you're trying to downplay, that's the problem here.



I'm not downplaying it, I'm just not stupid enough to think that knowledge is auto win button that allows Kisame to avoid and counters thing just because of knowledge. Knowledge can help to a certain degree but it doesn't magically make Kisame immune to what Itachi can do and grants him a pass. 



> That's your opinion, it's clear most posters don't consider every aspect of a lesser popular Shinobi when discussing more popular Shinobi. Whether it's intentional or not is irrelevant.



Just like it's your opinion that you think I don't pay attention to every detail just because I don't agree with you.


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## Troyse22 (Mar 24, 2017)

Bonly said:


> Just like it's your opinion that you think I don't pay attention to every detail just because I don't agree with you



If you paid attention to detail, you'd agree with me 



Bonly said:


> I'm not downplaying it, I'm just not stupid enough to think that knowledge is auto win button that allows Kisame to avoid and counters thing just because of knowledge. Knowledge can help to a certain degree but it doesn't magically make Kisame immune to what Itachi can do and grants him a pass.



Knowledge grants Kisame the ability to avoid Itachi's genjutsu all together. 
He has the arsenal to support that style of combat, (avoiding LoS by staying underwater and bombarding Itachi with Suitons)

And on and on.

Knowledge is INCREDIBLY important when fighting an Uchiha, which is why it's such a boost to Kisame's position in that battle.


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## The Great One (Mar 24, 2017)

Its Sasuke fight Itachi...

Let's see Samehada absorbs Amaterasu, Samahada absorbs susanoo, Samahada most likely snaps Kisame out of tsukuyomi, Kisame was pawning V1 Killer B while Edo Itachi was running from non V1 B.

Then add most of Kisame's wide area jutsus like water dome yeah Itachi is fucked.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## WorldsStrongest (Mar 24, 2017)

Troyse22 said:


> Dodging anything of decent speed in a blindside attack is impressive no matter how you try to spin it


Dodging simple projectiles is not an impressive reaction feat...

Everyone and their grandmother in this manga can dodge shuriken

And thats effectively what kisame dodged against Bee




Troyse22 said:


> He can block his entire body with Samehada.


Ummmm

No


Only time samehada is big enough to do that is when it is amped to high hell on Hachibis chakra...

Kisame himself stated that was the biggest he ever saw samehada grow

You think he is gonna get anywhere near that level of chakra from itachi?



Troyse22 said:


> If he gets tagged with it it's not an instant kill shot either, we saw A4 continue to press the attack against Sasuke despite being hit by it.


So we just gonna ignore the fact that the amaterasu was never directly on AAAA's body and hit his shroud?

And the fact that he still saw fit to amputate his own damn arm despite that advantage that kisame wont have?

Kay then...





Troyse22 said:


> He can simply place Samehada where ever it has hit and absorb it.


Nothing indicates smaehada can absorb amaterasu

Nothing

It was unable to completely absorb a fodder katon and still screamed in pain

Amaterasu is on another level


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## Bonly (Mar 24, 2017)

Troyse22 said:


> If you paid attention to detail, you'd agree with me



I have and I still don't  



> Knowledge grants Kisame the ability to avoid Itachi's genjutsu all together.
> He has the arsenal to support that style of combat, (avoiding LoS by staying underwater and bombarding Itachi with Suitons)
> 
> And on and on.
> ...



This is exactly what I said, you see knowledge and you magically assume that Kisame is immune to getting caught. Can you show me a single fight where Kisame avoids looking at his enemy? Can you show me Kisame creating a fighting style that allows him to avoid eye contact and then fighting with said style?

If Kisame goes underwater then that leaves him open to Itachi using his Suiton drills which will force Kisame to stop using Suitons to avoid and defend himself. Itachi also has his Totsuka blade to reach Kisame as well as slash his sharks, clones to distract him, Ama to burn on the water to stop his jutsu, etc. going under water doesn't prevent him from getting caught when he can also still look towards Itachi

I don't know what on an on is, please explain to me how Kisame is avoiding eye contact with his fighting style?

I agree knowledge is important but that doesn't boost Kisame's position in battle enough to beat Itachi when he never fights a certain way(avoid eye contact) and doesn't have a style revolving around it.


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## Troyse22 (Mar 24, 2017)

WorldsStrongest said:


> Dodging simple projectiles is not an impressive reaction feat...
> 
> Everyone and their grandmother in this manga can dodge shuriken
> 
> And thats effectively what kisame dodged against Bee



Dodging Shuriken head on

And dodging Shuriken that you can't see are two different things.



WorldsStrongest said:


> Ummmm
> 
> No
> 
> ...






Samehada is about as tall as Kisame (give or take half a foot)

It can block most of his torso, since it's extremely wide.

"Base" Samehada is still the biggest of the SOTM blades.



WorldsStrongest said:


> So we just gonna ignore the fact that the amaterasu was never directly on AAAA's body and hit his shroud?





WorldsStrongest said:


> And the fact that he still saw fit to amputate his own damn arm despite that advantage that kisame wont have?



Those contradictions are unreal.

If it hit his shroud and not him, Ay wouldn't have amputated his own arm, it clearly hit Ay directly.



WorldsStrongest said:


> Nothing indicates smaehada can absorb amaterasu
> 
> Nothing
> 
> ...



Amaterasu sure has the hype, but it lacks feats that put it above higher end Katon or Yoton.

It sat on a Samurai's armor for like a full minute and didn't even burn it 
Yagura survived it
Killer Bee survived it
Ay survived it

Amaterasu is pretty trash, and I wouldn't even put it above Madara's or Rikudo Sasuke's Katon's. Hype makes it seem amazing, feats make it trash.

Like most half decent debaters, I value feats over hype/portrayal.

Samehada can handle Amaterasu, don't even start with the "it betrays Kisame" crap. It didn't betray him vs Roshi and it won't betray him here. It'd be OOC for Samehada to betray its owner over Pain, considering it has had blades thrusted into it and such.

But i'm not gonna let this devolve into Samehada vs Amaterasu, you're one of the most close minded debaters, when I proved you wrong a week ago in another topic you pretty much said agree to disagree because you were wrong.


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## ATastyMuffin (Mar 24, 2017)

Itachi wins mid-high difficulty.


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## Troyse22 (Mar 24, 2017)

Bonly said:


> This is exactly what I said, you see knowledge and you magically assume that Kisame is immune to getting caught. Can you show me a single fight where Kisame avoids looking at his enemy? Can you show me Kisame creating a fighting style that allows him to avoid eye contact and then fighting with said style?



Staying underwater and bombarding with Suitons

Creating Waterdome, closing his eyes, merging with Samehada and attacking Itachi like that since he can sense his chakra through his skin



Bonly said:


> If Kisame goes underwater then that leaves him open to Itachi using his Suiton drills which will force Kisame to stop using Suitons to avoid and defend himself.



Implying the strongest Suiton user in the manga can't overpower Itachi's nigh featless Suitons 



Bonly said:


> Itachi also has his Totsuka blade to reach Kisame as well as slash his sharks, clones to distract him, Ama to burn on the water to stop his jutsu, etc. going under water doesn't prevent him from getting caught when he can also still look towards Itachi



Samehada merge/closes eyes/attacks itachi like that since he can sense chakra through his skin

His reactionary feats would enable him to dodge Amaterasu, especially while merged with Samehada and underwater, undoubtedly when he's at his fastest.

Samehada could also block Totsuka and absorb it.

It absorbs jutsu before they actually touch the blade, so Samehada cannot be pierced and sealed (assuming a blade can be sealed  )


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## The Great One (Mar 24, 2017)

WorldsStrongest said:


> Itachi is above kisame in every stat bar stamin a and brute force...really see no way the fish can win here.
> 
> 
> Itachi has 3 OHKO techs that kisame cannot dodge, counter or otherwise avoid or defend against.
> ...


Temari's wind jutsu of all things was able sweft Amaterasu away from fodder samurai armour.

I like to hear what stats Itachi have against Kisame I really do...

Let's see according to manga and feats...

Chakra - Kisame.
Jutsus - Kisame.
Element - Kisame(Water > Fire).
Endurence, Strength, Speed, reflexces and CQC - Kisame... Why?
30% Kisame took on gated Gai, took Gai 7 gates to defeat him, Made a joke out of V1 Bee.
Genjutsu - I guess Samehada counters it.

And have a Jutsu absorbing sword.

Lol at Hebi Sasuke...

Same 3 tomoe Sasuke who along with 2 others were getting trashed by Bee who by the way was getting trashed by Kisame and V1 at that.

Oh and itachi was running from non V1 Bee.

It took Gai 7 gates to put Kisame down which is >>>>>>> any of Itachi's speed feat.

Hebi Sasuke can counter Amaterasu by running faster then Itachi's field of vision which Kisame will have no problme of doing...

Proof?

His battle against Bee, Gai and Ay... Yeah so Kisame is not lacking in speed department.

Susanoo...
Kisame either absorb it with his sword like he did with Bee or drowns Itachi and his susanoo along in Water dome or bambards it with shark bombs while water dome is also absorbing both Susanoo and Itachi's chakra.

Is not those battles where 3 tomoe trolled Kisame were fillers?

Itachi will be dead by the time he brings Totsuka... And who says Samehada does not absorbs it? Or is there a feat Totsuka hitting moving target?

And who says Kisame needs to scratch Susanoo? He will simply drown both Susanoo and Itachi while watching how Itachi dies slowly and painfully.

Feats speaks louder then hypes and words.

Reactions: Like 1


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## WorldsStrongest (Mar 24, 2017)

Troyse22 said:


> Dodging Shuriken head on
> 
> And dodging Shuriken that you can't see are two different things.


And both are done on a regular basis in this franchise 

Making the feat lackluster either way



Troyse22 said:


> Samehada is about as tall as Kisame (give or take half a foot)


Great



Troyse22 said:


> It can block most of his torso, since it's extremely wide.


Its nowhere near wide enough to block his entire body

And he is also not fast enough to get it in the proper position in time to even attempt to block amaterasu anyway


Troyse22 said:


> "Base" Samehada is still the biggest of the SOTM blades.


Still not bigger than the entirety of kisames body



Troyse22 said:


> Those contradictions are unreal.


What fucking contradictions?

Hits him with his shroud up...ergo it isnt burning him directly YET

Whereas it will burn kisame directly IMMEDIATELY



Troyse22 said:


> If it hit his shroud and not him, Ay wouldn't have amputated his own arm, it clearly hit Ay directly.


It clearly did not hit A directly as he had his shroud up when it happened...

Unless you think amaterasu can just circumvent a shroud just cuz



Troyse22 said:


> Amaterasu sure has the hype, but it lacks feats that put it above higher end Katon or Yoton.


This has to be a joke...

And you accuse me of downplay...

And why is it amaterasu needs feats to be considered not trash yet daikodan which is 100% featless does not?



Troyse22 said:


> It sat on a Samurai's armor for like a full minute and didn't even burn it
> Yagura survived it
> Killer Bee survived it
> Ay survived it


"A full minute"

No...just no...It was on that samurais armor long enough for V2 A to tag sasuke and attempt a follow up...Sand siblings showed up at exactly that instant and bailed everyone out from being murdered by Enton...Gaara points that out as soon as he arrives

So ama sat on that samurais armor for like...3 seconds? 5 Tops? However long it takes the raikage IN HIS V2 STATE to move like 20 feet...

When the fuck did yagura go up against amaterasu?

Killer Bee was literally screaming in pain against amaterasu...not a great way to downplay the technique there troy

And A sacrificed his Arm to the Black flames...he didnt exactly get off easy...

Now on to its higher end stuff...

Like burning fire proof toad innards, harming the Juubi, making Kaguya sweat about her dimension hopping...




Troyse22 said:


> Amaterasu is pretty trash, and I wouldn't even put it above Madara's or Rikudo Sasuke's Katon's. Hype makes it seem amazing, feats make it trash.


If you dont put amaterasu above base katon there is really no point in talking to you

We saw how amaterasu SHITS on NE amped Katon...



Troyse22 said:


> Samehada can handle Amaterasu, don't even start with the "it betrays Kisame" crap. It didn't betray him vs Roshi and it won't betray him here. It'd be OOC for Samehada to betray its owner over Pain, considering it has had blades thrusted into it and such.


Samehada cannot handle amaterasu

Cuz you cant even prove it can handle base katon

Best youve got is a downplay argument that still doesnt prove your point

I literally never argue for samehada betraying kisame...cuz i dont need to...he still gets shat on either way



Troyse22 said:


> But i'm not gonna let this devolve into Samehada vs Amaterasu, you're one of the most close minded debaters, when I proved you wrong a week ago in another topic you pretty much said agree to disagree because you were wrong.


Im close minded?

Oh hey kettle!

The names Pot!

We met?

Troy...Id love to see this thing that you "proved me wrong" on...please tell me you are referring to what i think you are


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## The Great One (Mar 24, 2017)

ATastyMuffin said:


> Itachi wins mid-high difficulty.


Lol.

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## Bonly (Mar 24, 2017)

Troyse22 said:


> Staying underwater and bombarding with Suitons



Creating Waterdome, closing his eyes, merging with Samehada and attacking Itachi like that since he can sense his chakra through his skin[/QUOTE]

All of this was addressed in the last post



> Implying the strongest Suiton user in the manga can't overpower Itachi's nigh featless Suitons



Learn to pay attention. Did I say Kisame can't overpower Itachi's Suiton? No. What did I say? "Itachi using his Suiton drills which will force Kisame to stop using Suitons to avoid and defend himself." If Itachi attack with his drills will Kisame not be forced to defend himself? Yes which is exactly the point. 




> Samehada merge/closes eyes/attacks itachi like that since he can sense chakra through his skin





Sensing isn't a substitute for eye sight. Sensing might help him but 



> His reactionary feats would enable him to dodge Amaterasu, especially while merged with Samehada and underwater, undoubtedly when he's at his fastest.



Dodging Killer B pencil isn't good enough feats to suggest he's gonna dodge Ama, he doesn't have the speed of V2 A. 



> Samehada could also block Totsuka and absorb it.



Can you show me where it's stated that Totsuka is made out of chakra?



> It absorbs jutsu before they actually touch the blade, so Samehada cannot be pierced and sealed (assuming a blade can be sealed  )



And yet Samehada didn't absorb any of Itachi's Katon(both of them) before it touched Samehada nor did it absorb Asuma's Hien when it was near Asuma. Samehada absorbing abilities doesn't absorb before it touches the blade like you think it does.


----------



## The Great One (Mar 24, 2017)

Bonly said:


> Creating Waterdome, closing his eyes, merging with Samehada and attacking Itachi like that since he can sense his chakra through his skin



All of this was addressed in the last post



Learn to pay attention. Did I say Kisame can't overpower Itachi's Suiton? No. What did I say? "Itachi using his Suiton drills which will force Kisame to stop using Suitons to avoid and defend himself." If Itachi attack with his drills will Kisame not be forced to defend himself? Yes which is exactly the point. 






Sensing isn't a substitute for eye sight. Sensing might help him but 



Dodging Killer B pencil isn't good enough feats to suggest he's gonna dodge Ama, he doesn't have the speed of V2 A. 



Can you show me where it's stated that Totsuka is made out of chakra?



And yet Samehada didn't absorb any of Itachi's Katon(both of them) before it touched Samehada nor did it absorb Asuma's Hien when it was near Asuma. Samehada absorbing abilities doesn't absorb before it touches the blade like you think it does.[/QUOTE]
Does Totsuka have feat of taging moving target?


----------



## The Great One (Mar 24, 2017)

WorldsStrongest said:


> And both are done on a regular basis in this franchise
> 
> Making the feat lackluster either way
> 
> ...


Are we really talking about Kisame not being fast here? I mean shit this guy took on Gai with Gates, Killer Bee with V1 cloke and Ay.


----------



## Troyse22 (Mar 24, 2017)

WorldsStrongest said:


> And both are done on a regular basis in this franchise
> 
> Making the feat lackluster either way



Show me someone dodging blindside shuriken from within 2 inches of their head.



WorldsStrongest said:


> Its nowhere near wide enough to block his entire body
> 
> And he is also not fast enough to get it in the proper position in time to even attempt to block amaterasu anyway



I said most 

He was also able to get Samehada into a blocking position quickly enough to block V2 Killer Bee's Lariat.

Btw this is the thing I proved you wrong on and you backed off 



WorldsStrongest said:


> And both are done on a regular basis in this franchise
> 
> Making the feat lackluster either way
> 
> ...



You go on to say Amaterasu was only on for about 3-5 seconds, a fair assessment, perhaps a minute was exaggerated, i'd say about 10 seconds. It burned his shroud almost instantly, and it was clearly on his arm for a fair bit of time and he didn't even flinch after being burned with it, nor after cutting his arm off, in fact his first concern was stopping the bleeding then going after Sasuke again.

Clearly he didn't fear Amaterasu.



Bonly said:


> Sensing isn't a substitute for eye sight. Sensing might help him but



Actually yes it is, Kabuto proved that.

Also, Kisame was canonically blinded by Killer Bee's ink and still managed to hunt him down and attack him with perfect accuracy. 

He can clearly fight effectively without eyesight, a perfect counter to Itachi as proven by Kabuto.



Bonly said:


> Can you show me where it's stated that Totsuka is made out of chakra?




It's never explicitly stated, some things are implicit and don't need to be stated.

It's clearly not a physical object as it's a liquid that comes from Itachi's Susanoo's gourd. This liquid is presumably comprised of chakra.



Bonly said:


> And yet Samehada didn't absorb any of Itachi's Katon(both of them) before it touched Samehada




I love when scans do the talking


----------



## WorldsStrongest (Mar 24, 2017)

Batzzaro29 said:


> Temari's wind jutsu of all things was able sweft Amaterasu away from fodder samurai armour.


Guess someone didnt read teh manga very clearly then...

Temaris wind didnt blow away jack shit...it severed the samurais armor which allowed kankuro to separate it from the samurai...

The flames were unaffected otherwise



Batzzaro29 said:


> I like to hear what stats Itachi have against Kisame I really do...


Sure, ill assist you in this manner


Batzzaro29 said:


> Chakra - Kisame.


Yep


Batzzaro29 said:


> Jutsus - Kisame.


This is the definition of fucking vague dude...

And its also wrong no matter how you slice it

Kisame has literally no defensive jutsu...dont think he was ever shown even using a basic elemental wall...Itachi on the other hand has susanoo...which is quite a high bar in terms of defensive techniques...even w/o considering yata mirror.

His susanoo also has insane offensive potential with incredible striking speed and physical strength, as well as the totsuka blade to bypass durability.

Itachi also has amaterasu...which one shots kisame and he cant even avoid it.

And tsukuyomi...which also one shots kisame.

The only "jutsu" category that kisame beats itachi in is scale...and that doesnt win battles in and of itself.

Itachi has the edge in pound for pound damage and lethality by a landslide





Batzzaro29 said:


> Element - Kisame(Water > Fire).


And Amaterasu shits on this notion...Itachi also has suitons...



Batzzaro29 said:


> Endurence, Strength, Speed, reflexces and CQC - Kisame... Why?
> 30% Kisame took on gated Gai, took Gai 7 gates to defeat him, Made a joke out of V1 Bee.


Kisame has the edge in durability and strength...But its laughable to suggest he is more reflexive or faster than Itachi...



Batzzaro29 said:


> Genjutsu - I guess Samehada counters it.


Fanfic



Batzzaro29 said:


> And have a Jutsu absorbing sword.


That cant absorb any of itachis OHKOs...



Batzzaro29 said:


> Lol at Hebi Sasuke...
> 
> Same 3 tomoe Sasuke who along with 2 others were getting trashed by Bee who by the way was getting trashed by Kisame and V1 at that.


Actually that sasuke was stated to be weaker than Hebi sasuke due to not having the curse mark and being injured...with the exception of amaterasu...that sasuke is much weaker than hebi sasuke.



Batzzaro29 said:


> It took Gai 7 gates to put Kisame down which is >>>>>>> any of Itachi's speed feat.


Implying the 7th gate is the minimum amount of speed required to blitz kisame


Its outright stated that the 6th gate is more than enough to murder kisame...Its also stated Gai went 7th gate to up his scale of attack to counter kisames scroll shark from escaping...Kisame himself was not the cause of said transformation

Gai would slap his shit in 6th gate just fine



Batzzaro29 said:


> Hebi Sasuke can counter Amaterasu by running faster then Itachi's field of vision which Kisame will have no problme of doing...
> 
> Proof?
> 
> His battle against Bee, Gai and Ay... Yeah so Kisame is not lacking in speed department.


His battles against Bee, Gai, or A do not give him speed at Hebi sasukes level...

And sasuke only managed to avoid it temporarily...

Itachi was also not trying to kill sasuke there and held back KI



Batzzaro29 said:


> Susanoo...
> Kisame either absorb it with his sword like he did with Bee


Samehada wont absorb susanoo when mokuton couldnt...



Batzzaro29 said:


> or drowns Itachi and his susanoo along in Water dome or bambards it with shark bombs while water dome is also absorbing both Susanoo and Itachi's chakra.


If he makes it to the point he uses waterdome (which is doubtful) itachi merely lights him up with amaterasu and he burns to death at a distance...or when kisame comes in close itachi skewers him with totsuka

Its a lose lose for kisame

He could also genjutsu kisame to create an opening to escape the dome...



Batzzaro29 said:


> Is not those battles where 3 tomoe trolled Kisame were fillers?


No idea what you are referencing here as i didnt bring up any filler...



Batzzaro29 said:


> Itachi will be dead by the time he brings Totsuka... And who says Samehada does not absorbs it? Or is there a feat Totsuka hitting moving target?


Totsukas striking speed could be scaled to susanoos generic striking speed as susanoo is the being doing the attacking...and kisame aint having a fun time dealing with attack speed on that level.


----------



## WorldsStrongest (Mar 24, 2017)

Troyse22 said:


> Show me someone dodging blindside shuriken from within 2 inches of their head.


With deidara...directly behind him or Part 1 Nejis entire fucking fight with Kidomaru...Especially after kidomaru began abusing his byakugans blindspot..not too mention the arrow shenanigans or Gaara reacting to deidaras bomb

There is UNDOUBTEDLY more but id rather not comb through 700 chapters finding the ones were shuriken or other base projectiles are used...This should paint the picture just fine considering a Part 1 genin is involved...




Troyse22 said:


> He was also able to get Samehada into a blocking position quickly enough to block V2 Killer Bee's Lariat.
> 
> Btw this is the thing I proved you wrong on and you backed off


This is what you claim to have proven to me?

Lol all right champ

Its not like literally everytime you bring this up i say the sam ething and you cant refute it

Kisame did not react to V2 Bee...He had samehadaraised infront of him before Bee took a single step...Bottom right panel



Doesnt really matter how you try to spin this...Kisame had samehada in front of him before Bee even began moving...

Thats not a physical reaction

I would however concede that he managed a MENTAL reaction...as he basically had enough time to say "im fucked and cant absorb that chakra" before Bee hit him tho

He just didnt physically react




Troyse22 said:


> You go on to say Amaterasu was only on for about 3-5 seconds, a fair assessment, perhaps a minute was exaggerated, i'd say about 10 seconds.


Sure



Troyse22 said:


> It burned his shroud almost instantly, and it was clearly on his arm for a fair bit of time and he didn't even flinch after being burned with it, nor after cutting his arm off, in fact his first concern was stopping the bleeding then going after Sasuke again.


Either way you have missed my point...

AAAA had a shroud up and yet amputation was his only means of preventing further injury to his body...

Kisame doe not have a shroud...his options are a tad more limited


----------



## WorldsStrongest (Mar 24, 2017)

Batzzaro29 said:


> Are we really talking about Kisame not being fast here? I mean shit this guy took on Gai with Gates, Killer Bee with V1 cloke and Ay.


Way to address literally none of my post

Him "taking on" gai with gates on both occasions consisted of him getting 1 shotted seconds later...not a great way to hype him


----------



## The Great One (Mar 24, 2017)

WorldsStrongest said:


> Guess someone didnt read teh manga very clearly then...
> 
> Temaris wind didnt blow away jack shit...it severed the samurais armor which allowed kankuro to separate it from the samurai...
> 
> ...


Go read manga Kankuru took armour while Temari blowed it with away her fan.

His battle against Bee, Gai and Ay actually gives him speed above Hebi Sasuke level cause all of then are above Hebi Sasuke in speed.

What is Hebi Sasuke's greatest speed(Aside from GSE which was a plot armour) aside from getting beaten by Itachi? Same itachi who was running from Bee in CQC and same Bee who was getting his shit beaten by Kisame while in V1.

Also Kisame dodged V1 larat at point blank.

I like see proof any of Itachi's speed feat being faster then gated Gai or V2 Ay being faster then 6 gate Gai.

Oh and before you be gain Gate less Gai was taking on Obito on close quarters... same Obito who saved MS Sasuke from Jinton cube without any 3 tomoe reflex bullshit.

And it took Gated Gai to defeat 30% Kisame.

Kisame don't need any defence when Samehada absorbs amaterasu on contact.

Genjutsu effecting Kisame fanfic : never happend.

Then again Kisame can fight his eyes closed like he did with Bee.

Totsuka striking feat Fanfic : both of time Itachi used when his opponent was literally stationary.

Samahada was merged with Kisame so it absorbs Amatersau and dodges Totsuka with his sensing and Totsuka striking feat fanfic.

Alive Itachi's susanoo was slow as fuck Kisame is gonna dance around it.

If Tsukuyomi was failed to one shot Hebi Sasuke then it sure as hell is not doing to Kisame.


----------



## Troyse22 (Mar 24, 2017)

WorldsStrongest said:


> With deidara...directly behind him



He saw them coming 



WorldsStrongest said:


> Part 1 Nejis entire fucking fight with Kidomaru



Byakugan 



WorldsStrongest said:


> .Especially after kidomaru began abusing his byakugans blindspot



Prediction 

Kidomaru was using the same thing over and over, eventually it became obvious, especially for Part 1 Neji who was constantly hyped up as a genius



WorldsStrongest said:


> Gaara reacting to deidaras bomb



That's not a blindside attack 



WorldsStrongest said:


> Kisame did not react to V2 Bee...He had samehadaraised infront of him before Bee took a single step...Bottom right panel
> 
> 
> 
> Doesnt really matter how you try to spin this...Kisame had samehada in front of him before Bee even began moving...




Look at the position of Samehada in the middle left panel. He had it so the side of him, he reacted by placing Samehada in front of him as a shield.



WorldsStrongest said:


> Thats not a physical reaction



Yes it is.



WorldsStrongest said:


> He just didnt physically react



That scan disagrees with you.

Stop trying to fight the manga, you can't win



WorldsStrongest said:


> Either way you have missed my point...
> 
> AAAA had a shroud up and yet amputation was his only means of preventing further injury to his body...
> 
> Kisame doe not have a shroud...his options are a tad more limited



AAAA had no options besides Amputation, Kisame can use Samehada on himself.


----------



## Troyse22 (Mar 24, 2017)

Batzzaro29 said:


> Go read manga Kankuru took armour while Temari blowed it with away her fan.



I like that you're debating on behalf of Kisame, it's nice not to come into this debate alone, but that's wrong man.





Temari's wind didn't do anything.


----------



## WorldsStrongest (Mar 24, 2017)

Troyse22 said:


> He saw them coming


When they got close to him...same thing kisame did



Troyse22 said:


> Byakugan


Yu huh but then...



Troyse22 said:


> Prediction
> 
> Kidomaru was using the same thing over and over, eventually it became obvious, especially for Part 1 Neji who was constantly hyped up as a genius


They were still blindspot attacks dodged by a part 1 genin...



Troyse22 said:


> That's not a blindside attack



Its literally the exact same positioning the projectiles were in in kisames situation

Just out of sight on his left

So i guess kisames wasnt a blindside either





Troyse22 said:


> Look at the position of Samehada in the middle left panel. He had it so the side of him, he reacted by placing Samehada in front of him as a shield.



The middle panel is irrlevant as it happens before teh bottom right panel

And in teh bottom right panel he has the damn sword in front of him before Bee moved...thats not a reaction



Troyse22 said:


> Yes it is.


No its not



Troyse22 said:


> That scan disagrees with you.
> 
> Stop trying to fight the manga, you can't win


Irony at its finest



Troyse22 said:


> AAAA had no options besides Amputation, Kisame can use Samehada on himself.


Samehada cannot absorb amaterasu...It cant even absorb basic katon


----------



## The Great One (Mar 24, 2017)

Troyse22 said:


> I like that you're debating on behalf of Kisame, it's nice not to come into this debate alone, but that's wrong man.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Well... fuck.
But we have Naruto swating Amaterasu simply waving his hand so Amaterasu is not "Its gonna stick into you 24x7"

Hell Kisame was laughing at lirat at his stomach.

Sasuke screaming cause of Ama.
Sasuke lost his conscious course of Larat.

Kisame was laughing at Larat so... He is gonna be alright.


----------



## The Great One (Mar 24, 2017)

WorldsStrongest said:


> When they got close to him...same thing kisame did
> 
> 
> Yu huh but then...
> ...


Lol its saying like Momoshiki can't absorbs Susanoo and Kurama aveter cause he did not.


----------



## Troyse22 (Mar 24, 2017)

Batzzaro29 said:


> Well... fuck.
> But we have Naruto swating Amaterasu simply waving his hand so Amaterasu is not "Its gonna stick into you 24x7"
> 
> Hell Kisame was laughing at lirat at his stomach.
> ...



Yeah, Amaterasu isn't anything Kisame needs to be concerned about.

His pain tolerance is one of the highest in the manga, like you said he was taunting/laughing at Killer Bee



WorldsStrongest said:


> When they got close to him...same thing kisame did



They were several meters from him, not inches like Kisame



WorldsStrongest said:


> They were still blindspot attacks dodged by a part 1 genin...



Not saying that they weren't, but prediction played a huge factor, Kisame wasn't expecting that attack that's the thing. It was pure reaction.



WorldsStrongest said:


> Its literally the exact same positioning the projectiles were in in kisames situation
> 
> Just out of sight on his left



Wrong, it was in sight as he was able to look directly at it.



WorldsStrongest said:


> The middle panel is irrlevant as it happens before teh bottom right panel
> 
> And in teh bottom right panel he has the damn sword in front of him before Bee moved...thats not a reaction



Lord help me....

Kisame had Samehada to his left BEFORE he moved it in front of him.
Bee began his V2 Lariat, THEN Kisame moved Samehada into a blocking position, the fucking scan you provided supports this, why are you disputing it holy shit.



WorldsStrongest said:


> Samehada cannot absorb amaterasu...It cant even absorb basic katon



It did absorb Katon though 

If it didn't you'd have a leg to stand on, but you don't.


----------



## HandfullofNaruto (Mar 24, 2017)

@Troyse22 assuming Hoshigaki Kisame placed Samehada in front of himself before V2 Bee could reach him how far does that feat really take him in your eyes? What is the best speed feat from V2 Bee? Is it really enough to suggest he can physically react to the spawn of Amaterasu?


----------



## WorldsStrongest (Mar 24, 2017)

Troyse22 said:


> Wrong, it was in sight as he was able to look directly at it.


No...no he wasnt...not until it passed into his LoS which was vaery narrow due to the sand dome he was using...

Gaara didnt have to simply dodge it either...he had to move his sand in order to protect him



Troyse22 said:


> Kisame had Samehada to his left BEFORE he moved it in front of him.
> Bee began his V2 Lariat, THEN Kisame moved Samehada into a blocking position, the fucking scan you provided supports this, why are you disputing it holy shit.


Kisame has his sword in front of him before Bee moves and begins his attack...

If Kisame had moved his sword after Bee had moved you would have a leg to stand on

But he didnt so you dont

All you gotta do to see that Kisame had his sword up before Bee took a step is look at the bottom right panel...

And because Kisame was defending befroe teh attack even initiated...thats not a reaction feat...

As i said...at best he MENTALLY reacted as he had thought about samehadas absorbtion limits before Bee had hit him

But that doesnt help him when he has no technique he can manifest at the speed of thought...




Troyse22 said:


> It did absorb Katon though


It absorbed a tiny portion of it and was screaming in pain...Not the entire technique...not even close



Troyse22 said:


> If it didn't you'd have a leg to stand on, but you don't.


If samehada had absorbed the entire technique...or had done so without screaming in pain you would have a leg to stand on...

Neither of these things happened so you dont


----------



## The Great One (Mar 24, 2017)

HandfullofNaruto said:


> @Troyse22 assuming Hoshigaki Kisame placed Samehada in front of himself before V2 Bee could reach him how far does that feat really take him in your eyes? What is the best speed feat from V2 Bee? Is it really enough to suggest he can physically react to the spawn of Amaterasu?


Let's see Killer Bee in base trashed Sasuke, Suijetsu and CS Juggo without trying and ran away under their nose without trio knowing and they needed Karin's help to locate KB... so do your math.

And Edo Itachi was running away from Base Bee while fighting equally with Naruto(Maybe Naruto was holding back) who is fast as V2 raikage.

I mean that actuelly makes sense Bee straight up trashed 3 tomoe Sasuke while Sasuke in Kage summit was able to tag Ay.

So V1 Bee is likely = V2 Raikage.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Troyse22 (Mar 24, 2017)

HandfullofNaruto said:


> @Troyse22 assuming Hoshigaki Kisame placed Samehada in front of himself before V2 Bee could reach him how far does that feat really take him in your eyes? What is the best speed feat from V2 Bee? Is it really enough to suggest he can physically react to the spawn of Amaterasu?



V2 AAAA was able to react and dodge Amaterasu
Sasuke was able to mentally react to V2 AAAA
Sasuke was not able to react to the inferior V1 Killer Bee in CQC, mental or otherwise
Kisame on the other hand was able to physically react to the much superior V2 Killer Bee
Kisame reacted to something canonically faster than Amaterasu (V2 Bee) 
He can react to Amaterasu


----------



## WorldsStrongest (Mar 24, 2017)

Batzzaro29 said:


> Lol its saying like Momoshiki can't absorbs Susanoo and Kurama aveter cause he did not.


Lol no its not...

Momos level of absorption is unparalleled in teh verse...pretty sure there are literally no restrictions on it as sauske tells all the kage to completely forgo usage of ninjutsu entirely...We dont see this being done in response to samehada now do we?

Mokuton...which is an ability tiers above samehada and is known for chakra absorption capability...cant absorb susanoo

Momos absorption>>>Mokuton>>>Samehada


----------



## WorldsStrongest (Mar 24, 2017)

Troyse22 said:


> Sasuke was not able to react to the inferior V1 Killer Bee in CQC, mental or otherwise


Wrong tho...And this is a nerfed sasuke in midair...




> Sasuke was able to mentally react to V2 AAAA
> Sasuke was not able to react to the inferior V1 Killer Bee in CQC, mental or otherwise



And did you just imply V1 Bee>V2 AAAA ?


----------



## Troyse22 (Mar 24, 2017)

WorldsStrongest said:


> Kisame has his sword in front of him before Bee moves and begins his attack...



No he didn't.



WorldsStrongest said:


> It absorbed a tiny portion of it and was screaming in pain...Not the entire technique...not even close
> 
> If samehada had absorbed the entire technique...or had done so without screaming in pain you would have a leg to stand on...
> 
> Neither of these things happened so you dont





Why would Samehada absorb more than absolutely necessary?



WorldsStrongest said:


> Mokuton...which is an ability tiers above samehada and is known for chakra absorption capability...cant absorb susanoo



Samehada doesn't just absorb, it consumes chakra.

They're fundamentally different types of absorption.


----------



## Troyse22 (Mar 24, 2017)

WorldsStrongest said:


> Wrong tho...And this is a nerfed sasuke in midair...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



From across a huge distance.

He got trashed in CQC.


----------



## WorldsStrongest (Mar 24, 2017)

Troyse22 said:


> No he didn't.


Yes he did...Bottom right panel...Bee hasnt moved from his spot...Kisame has teh sword in front of him...

There is nothing else to say



Troyse22 said:


> Why would Samehada absorb more than absolutely necessary?


What possible reasoning would Samehada have for not eating all of it?

It would only mean more food for it and more healing/stamina for its wielder...

This is conjecture at best 

Also...

Why would it literally scream in pain and smack its wielder if the task wasnt within its ability?




Troyse22 said:


> Samehada doesn't just absorb, it consumes chakra.
> 
> They're fundamentally different types of absorption.


This doenst change my point...at all...

Mokutons absorbs chakra on a much larger scale than samehada has ever even been hyoped to d oand it cant absorb susanoo...

So yeah...


----------



## WorldsStrongest (Mar 24, 2017)

Troyse22 said:


> From across a huge distance.


Wrong again...sasuke (unlike kisame against V2 Bee ) waited until Bee was close to him before he reacted





Troyse22 said:


> He got trashed in CQC.


By acrobat...which is more than just speed...its also numbers and feints... And he kept up for a time...

And again...Injured sasuke...


----------



## Android (Mar 24, 2017)

Why make this thread OP ? i mean apart from only @Troyse22 who lives in deulululu land and believes Kisame stands a chance , it's abvious that Itachi *stomps* 
Can't counter Genjutsu .
Can't counter Shittiratsu .
Can't bust Susanoo .
Either of which will one shot the fish  

@Troyse , i thought you said Hashirama nor Madara can pass through Yata , what changed now , does Kisame has more firepower than these two ??  
Also , Kisame was looking to Sasuke's and Kakashi's eyes , doesn't that automatically mean Genjutsu GG ??  
And why does suddenly Yata has a limits now , i thought you didn't believe in NLF ??  


WorldsStrongest said:


> Itachi was able to blitz Hebi Sasuke


Yes , in Genjutsu , not in the real world


----------



## WorldsStrongest (Mar 24, 2017)

@Troyse22 

You didnt answer my question homie


Troyse22 said:


> Sasuke was able to mentally react to V2 AAAA
> Sasuke was not able to react to the inferior V1 Killer Bee in CQC, mental or otherwise





WorldsStrongest said:


> And did you just imply V1 Bee>V2 AAAA ?


----------



## The Great One (Mar 24, 2017)

WorldsStrongest said:


> Wrong tho...And this is a nerfed sasuke in midair...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Sasuke only reacted to Bee cause Bee's attack was a straight attack.


----------



## WorldsStrongest (Mar 24, 2017)

GuidingThunder said:


> Yes , in Genjutsu , not in the real world



As i said while making that post...i was eating lunch...


WorldsStrongest said:


> Made this post while eating lunch...so pardon the lack of scans and whatnot



so you will have to forgive the little things like that

The point was he can force eye contact on a faster opponent than kisame...

So kisame is foooked




GuidingThunder said:


> Why make this thread OP ? i mean apart from only @Troyse22 who lives in deulululu land and believes Kisame stands a chance , it's abvious that Itachi *stomps*



Actually im pretty sure the OP thinks kisame wins as well


----------



## Android (Mar 24, 2017)

WorldsStrongest said:


> The point was he can force eye contact on a faster opponent than kisame...


He doesn't need to force anything , Kisame can't fight w/o looking at Itachi .
If he avoids eye-eye contact , he gets hit with an Ama or he gets clone feinfucked 


WorldsStrongest said:


> Actually im pretty sure the OP thinks kisame wins as well


Then he's abviously wrong


----------



## The Great One (Mar 24, 2017)

GuidingThunder said:


> Why make this thread OP ? i mean apart from only @Troyse22 who lives in deulululu land and believes Kisame stands a chance , it's abvious that Itachi *stomps*
> Can't counter Genjutsu .
> Can't counter Shittiratsu .
> Can't bust Susanoo .
> ...


Yata is not a problem you know... Kisame can simply drown both Itachi and Susanoo in water dome.


----------



## HandfullofNaruto (Mar 24, 2017)

Troyse22 said:


> V2 AAAA was able to react and dodge Amaterasu


Yes - though note the fact that he barley dodged it, we saw that Amaterasu was only inches away from catching his actual body. I'd also like to mention the fact that he Uchiha Sasuke was still able to make use of the Jutsu even with the speed disadvantage. 





> Sasuke was able to mentally react to V2 AAAA


Yea. 





> Sasuke was not able to react to the inferior V1 Killer Bee in CQC, mental or otherwise


That is not true as Killer Bee clearly states that Uchiha Sasuke was the first, since Ay, to dodge him in this form. He not only mentally reacted but physically reacted as well & at the last moment mind you. 





> Kisame on the other hand was able to physically react to the much superior V2 Killer Bee
> Kisame reacted to something canonically faster than Amaterasu (V2 Bee)
> He can react to Amaterasu.


Are you implying V1 Killer Bee is superior to V2 Ay in the speed department? None of this even factors in the nature of the attack that is Amaterasu and I'm not talking about its Katon properties but the fact it's an instant spawn that requires either V2 speed if you want to _barley dodge it_ or for you to already be on the move before the Jutsu is activated and even then there is a very good chance that you will be caught. You still haven't provided a speed feat from V2 Killer Bee that suggests a physical reaction would warrant a physical reaction to Amaterasu.


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## The Great One (Mar 24, 2017)

HandfullofNaruto said:


> Yes - though note the fact that he barley dodged it, we saw that Amaterasu was only inches away from catching his actual body. I'd also like to mention the fact that he Uchiha Sasuke was still able to make use of the Jutsu even with the speed disadvantage. Yea. That is not true as Killer Bee clearly states that Uchiha Sasuke was the first, since Ay, to dodge him in this form. He not only mentally reacted but physically reacted as well & at the last moment mind you. Are you implying V1 Killer Bee is superior to V2 Ay in the speed department? None of this even factors in the nature of the attack that is Amaterasu and I'm not talking about its Katon properties but the fact it's an instant spawn that requires either V2 speed if you want to _barley dodge it_ or for you to already be on the move before the Jutsu is activated and even then there is a very good chance that you will be caught. You still haven't provided a speed feat from V2 Killer Bee that suggests a physical reaction would warrant a physical reaction to Amaterasu.


Bee in Base stopped V1 Raikage so that's a possibility.

No that's fucking fact Base Bee took V1 Raikage Larat like a boss so V1 Bee shits V2 Raikage all over place.


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## HandfullofNaruto (Mar 24, 2017)

Batzzaro29 said:


> Bee in Base stopped V1 Raikage so that's a possibility.


It would invalidate the entire existence of Ay in the shinobi world as he is "the fastest man in the world" now that Minato is gone anyway. iirc Killer Bee outright states that Ay is superior in the speed department when he and KCM Naruto are confronted.


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## HandfullofNaruto (Mar 24, 2017)

The Death & The Strawberry said:


> Kisame absorbs chakra through his skin, I assume if Amaterasu was fired at him, he'd be able to absorb it


His chakra absorbtion works by having a direct link to his opponents chakra - he isn't Gakido.


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## WorldsStrongest (Mar 24, 2017)

Batzzaro29 said:


> Yata is not a problem you know... Kisame can simply drown both Itachi and Susanoo in water dome.


NAh...

Yata would constantly reflect the water with its mirror property

Pushing all the water at kisame and forcing him away from itachi and hed take the entire dome with him as kisame is the center of the dome and where he goes the dome goes







Itachi solos

You cant drown the solo king


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## The Great One (Mar 24, 2017)

HandfullofNaruto said:


> It would invalidate the entire existence of Ay in the shinobi world as he is "the fastest man in the world" now that Minato is gone anyway. iirc Killer Bee outright states that Ay is superior in the speed department when he and KCM Naruto are confronted.


Feats > statements.
Base Bee stopped V1 Ay that's feat.
Ay is fastest that's statement.

Hiruzen is strongest shinobi... Look how good that turned out.

And during Madara battle non of Kages were having any trouble to keeping track of Ay.


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## The Great One (Mar 24, 2017)

WorldsStrongest said:


> NAh...
> 
> Yata would constantly reflect the water with its mirror property
> 
> ...


That water also absorbs chakra.


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## Serene Grace (Mar 24, 2017)

HandfullofNaruto said:


> His chakra absorbtion works by having a direct link to his opponents chakra - he isn't Gakido.


Amaterasu is basically linked to Itachi's eyes since he can infact control it,  move it around, as well as being able to set up transcription with them.


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## WorldsStrongest (Mar 24, 2017)

Batzzaro29 said:


> That water also absorbs chakra.


I was trolling fam...

But no...the water doesnt absorb chakra iirc...


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## Android (Mar 24, 2017)

Batzzaro29 said:


> Feats > statements.
> Base Bee stopped V1 Ay that's feat.
> Ay is fastest that's statement.


What in the green hell are you talking about son ??


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## HandfullofNaruto (Mar 24, 2017)

Batzzaro29 said:


> Feats > statements.
> Base Bee stopped V1 Ay that's feat.


Not a single feat suggests Killer Bee is superior to V2 Ay in speed - this goes against the manga in such a straightforward manner that I'm not even sure how to addess it. 





> Ay is fastest that's statement.


No - it is a fact. 





> Hiruzen is strongest shinobi... Look how good that turned out.


That statement is not retconned only by feats but by statements as well. 





> And during Madara battle non of Kages were having any trouble to keeping track of Ay.


None of them had to keep track of him and even if every single one of them were mentally reacting to his attacks it would change virtually nothing about Killer Bee's or Hoshigaki Kisames speed.


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## The Great One (Mar 24, 2017)

HandfullofNaruto said:


> Not a single feat suggests Killer Bee is superior to V2 Ay in speed - this goes against the manga in such a straightforward manner that I'm not even sure how to addess it. No - it is a fact. That statement is not retconned only by feats but by statements as well. None of them had to keep track of him and even if every single one of them were mentally reacting to his attacks it would change virtually nothing about Killer Bee's or Hoshigaki Kisames speed.


Ay being faster statement already got ritcon when Minato too Bee more seriously then Ay.

Well KB almost murdered team taka in Base while V1 Ay got tagged by Chidori.

Then also Base Bee's feat against Itachi he made Itachi run in a CQC while Itachi was casually chatting with KCM Naruto same Naruto who blitzed V2 Raikage.

When you have feats you don't need staments.


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## The Great One (Mar 24, 2017)

GuidingThunder said:


> What in the green hell are you talking about son ??


That Base Bee > V1 Raikege.
Ask Taka.


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## Android (Mar 24, 2017)

Batzzaro29 said:


> When you have feats you don't need staments.


Yeah , but your interpretation of the feats is so terrible to begin with


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## Android (Mar 24, 2017)

Batzzaro29 said:


> That Base Bee > V1 Raikege.
> Ask Taka.


Wrong .
V2 A >> V1 A > Base Bee .


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## The Great One (Mar 24, 2017)

GuidingThunder said:


> Yeah , but your interpretation of the feats is so terrible to begin with


Blame Kishimoto for making Base Bee look more competent then V1 Ay.


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## The Great One (Mar 24, 2017)

GuidingThunder said:


> Wrong .
> V2 A >> V1 A > Base Bee .


Wrong.
Base Bee - stabbed Sasuke twice and made Itachi run.
V1 Raikage - got nicked by Chidori and had to use V2 to actually demage Sasuke.

And Base Bee tanked Juugo punch which >>>>>> liger bomb.

Base Bee ran away under Sasuke's nose.
Ay needed V2 to do that.


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## Android (Mar 24, 2017)

Batzzaro29 said:


> Blame Kishimoto for making Base Bee look more competent then V1 Ay.


I can't blame Kishi if his fans can't read the manga correctly .


Batzzaro29 said:


> Wrong.
> Base Bee - stabbed Sasuke twice and made Itachi run.
> V1 Raikage - got nicked by Chidori and had to use V2 to actually demage Sasuke.
> 
> ...


1- Sasuke was injured during his fight with Bee , and Bee's fight Sasuke << FKS Sasuke .
2- Sasuke dodged V1 Bee's speed casually , who is faster than base bee .
3- A needed V2 to escape Amaterasu which made Bee scream like a hoe .
A is faster than Bee , by hype and feats .


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## The Great One (Mar 24, 2017)

GuidingThunder said:


> I can't blame Kishi if his fans can't read the manga correctly .
> 
> 1- Sasuke was injured during his fight with Bee , and Bee's fight Sasuke << FKS Sasuke .
> 2- Sasuke dodged V1 Bee's speed casually , who is faster than base bee .
> ...


I mean where Edo Itachi's injury was when he simply decided to run away from Bee.

Sasuke being injured means nothing when some one like Itachi ran away from mlee ...oh... And Bee countered Itachi's genjutsu.

That was a leaner attack remember how Sasuke was able to see Ay during his hill heel drop?

Same amaterasu which was stopped by mare chakra cloak... Same cloke which bee can create? 

That was not Bee that was his clone... If you try to remember bee was in that tentacle.


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## Blu-ray (Mar 24, 2017)

All these TL;DR's over something as cut and dry as this. Kisame falls to genjutsu, whether it be by being paralyzed then shanked, or outright knocked the fuck out.

Reactions: Like 3 | Funny 1 | Winner 1 | Dislike 1


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## UchihaX28 (Mar 24, 2017)

Nothing needs to be discussed here. Itachi was already stated to be way out of Kisame's league. At best, Itachi outmaneuvers Kisame with his superior speed, forces him to block attacks or strike a crow clone, and subdue him with Genjutsu like he did against Hebi Sasuke and Bee. Unfortunately for Kisame, he was disoriented by Kurenai's genjutsu and lacks a defensive mechanism that Sasuke and Bee had, so there's no escape for Kisame once this happens. Samehada wouldn't be capable of interfering since Itachi is smart enough to separate a swordsman from his blade. This is common sense.


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## Troyse22 (Mar 24, 2017)

Blu-ray said:


> All these TL;DR's over something as cut and dry as this. Kisame falls to genjutsu, whether it be by being paralyzed then shanked, or outright knocked the fuck out.




In short you don't wanna read anything contrary to your opinion.

Shoo.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Parallaxis (Mar 24, 2017)

The Death & The Strawberry said:


> I assume if Amaterasu was fired at him, he'd be able to absorb i


baseless

Reactions: Agree 1 | Dislike 1


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## Blu-ray (Mar 24, 2017)

Troyse22 said:


> In short you don't wanna read anything contrary to your opinion.
> 
> Shoo.


>He says this despite the _first two_ walls of text sharing my opinion than opposing it.

Seems like you're the one who doesn't do much reading at all. Save for your fanfics on Kisame anyway.

Reactions: Like 2


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## UchihaX28 (Mar 24, 2017)

Troyse22 said:


> In short you don't wanna read anything contrary to your opinion.
> 
> Shoo.



 That's quite ironic since you're chastising him for posting a meager response contrary to your own opinion.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Android (Mar 24, 2017)

Blu-ray said:


> >He says this despite the _first two_ walls of text sharing my opinion than opposing it.
> 
> Seems like you're the one who doesn't do much reading at all. Save for your fanfics on Kisame anyway.





UchihaX28 said:


> That's quite ironic since you're chastising him for posting a meager response contrary to your own opinion.


8 different users must be given reputation before hitting the same person again

Reactions: Like 2


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## Serene Grace (Mar 24, 2017)

PhantomSage said:


> baseless


Kisame can absorb chakra through his skin as made evident when he absorbed aoba's chakra that was supposed to paralyze him all through his skin alone if Amaterasu is fired at Kisames body, then he can likely absorb it, he can also theoritically absorb susanoo hand if it establishes physical contact as Susanoo is simply a huge chakra construct just asking to be absorbed¯\_(ツ)_/¯. Both Amaterasu and Susanoo are linked to Itachi, so Kisames chances of absorbing it through his skin rise. Though I already said Itachi wins, and he's superior to Kisame its just you guys are underrating him to say that Itachi beats him low diff, which most certainly isn't the case.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## UchihaX28 (Mar 24, 2017)

The Death & The Strawberry said:


> Kisame can absorb chakra through his skin as made evident when he absorbed aoba's chakra that was supposed to paralyze him all through his skin alone if Amaterasu is fired at Kisames body, then he can likely absorb it, he can also theoritically absorb susanoo hand if it establishes physical contact is Susanoo is simply a huge chakra construct just asking to be absorbed¯\_(ツ)_/¯. Both Amaterasu and Susanoo are linked to Itachi, so Kisames chances of absorbing it through his skin rise. Though I already said Itachi wins, and he's superior to Kisame its just you guys are underrating him to say that Itachi beats him low diff, which most certainly isn't the case.



 Didn't completely absorb Itachi's Katon.


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## Parallaxis (Mar 24, 2017)

The Death & The Strawberry said:


> Kisame can absorb chakra through his skin as made evident when he absorbed aoba's chakra that was supposed to paralyze him all through his skin alone if Amaterasu is fired at Kisames body, then he can likely absorb it, he can also theoritically absorb susanoo hand if it establishes physical contact is Susanoo is simply a huge chakra construct just asking to be absorbed¯\_(ツ)_/¯. Both Amaterasu and Susanoo are linked to Itachi, so Kisames chances of absorbing it through his skin rise. Though I already said Itachi wins, and he's superior to Kisame its just you guys are underrating him to say that Itachi beats him low diff, which most certainly isn't the case.


You yourself have preached how Amaterasu is underrated and how it can burn through a forest in seconds. You advocated that it could burn down all of Konan's paper before she disperses it so I don't see why all of a sudden you are going from Kisame absorbing a fodder's chakra to absorbing Amaterasu before it burns him to death.


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## Serene Grace (Mar 24, 2017)

PhantomSage said:


> You yourself have preached how Amaterasu is underrated and how it can burn through a forest in seconds. You advocated that it could burn down all of Konan's paper before she disperses it so I don't see why all of a sudden you are going from Kisame absorbing a fodder's chakra to absorbing Amaterasu before it burns him to death.


Sigh you always think the worst of me phantom . I never said he counters Amaterasu through absorption, I said if it was fired at him he'd likely be able to absorb it. For him to completely counter it, he'd have to beat the rate at which Amaterasu burns which is up for debate(a debate that likely proves the contrary as Amaterasu has stupendous feats that out way its "bad" ones), so I simply said he can absorb it, not completely counter it. I should have said Kisame could absorb some of Amaterasu, my bad for the terrible wording. Now Susanoo is a whole different story¯\_(ツ)_/¯


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## Troyse22 (Mar 24, 2017)

The Death & The Strawberry said:


> Sigh you always think the worst of me phantom . I never said he counters Amaterasu through absorption, I said if it was fired at him he'd likely be able to absorb it. For him to completely counter it, he'd have to beat the rate at which Amaterasu burns which is up for debate(a debate that likely proves the contrary as Amaterasu has stupendous feats that out way its "bad" ones), so I simply said he can absorb it, not completely counter it. I should have said Kisame could absorb some of Amaterasu, my bad for the terrible wording. Now Susanoo is a whole different story¯\_(ツ)_/¯



The speed at which Kisame's absorption is actually being discussed?



He almost KO'd Aoba from chakra loss in MOMENTS, his absorption rate is way WAY faster than what Amaterasu can burn him



Blu-ray said:


> >He says this despite the _first two_ walls of text sharing my opinion than opposing it.
> 
> Seems like you're the one who doesn't do much reading at all. Save for your fanfics on Kisame anyway.



Means nothing coming from a lackluster debate and mod 

Go ahead keep throwing jabs, I get a kick out of when mods think they can say w/e


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## Serene Grace (Mar 24, 2017)

Troyse22 said:


> The speed at which Kisame's absorption is actually being discussed?
> 
> 
> 
> He almost KO'd Aoba from chakra loss in MOMENTS, his absorption rate is way WAY faster than what Amaterasu can burn him


Yes Aoba is fodder, who's never once implied to have large chakra reserves so I don't know what you're on. Amaterasu literally turned Sasukes CS2 wing to dust, burned an entire field in seconds, and instantly incinerated a flame resistant toad gourd prison yah Amaterasu high end feats are no joke, at all. Though in regards to Kisame out speeding the rate at which Amaterasus burns, I'm 50-50, Amaterasus feats are pretty inconsistent and I'm just not trying to debate on something like that.
How about you sit back and let me do the Kisame debating Kappa, he actually is criminally underrated though and is exteremly powerful, but you stretch it at moments

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Troyse22 (Mar 24, 2017)

The Death & The Strawberry said:


> How about you sit back and let me do the Kisame debating Kappa, he actually is criminally underrated though and is exteremly powerful,



For one, even someone who got banned for flaming me actually concedes i'm one of the best debaters in the NBD.

You can argue I stretch it, fair enough, I don't think I do but hey, w/e

He's criminally underrated for sure, but someone like you shouldn't be handling these kinds of debates, ones that go hugely in depth, as you're certainly not up to the task.



The Death & The Strawberry said:


> Yes Aoba is fodder, who's never once implied to have large chakra reserves so I don't know what you're on. Amaterasu literally turned Sasukes CS2 wing to dust, burned an entire field in seconds, and instantly incinerated a flame resistant toad gourd prison yah Amaterasu high end feats are no joke, at all. Though in regards to Kisame out speeding the rate at which Amaterasus burns, I'm 50-50, Amaterasus feats are pretty inconsistent and I'm just not trying to debate on something like that.



tl;dr Amaterasu is garbage

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Serene Grace (Mar 24, 2017)

Troyse22 said:


> For one, even someone who got banned for flaming me actually concedes i'm one of the best debaters in the NBD.


ok wtf, did I say you were a terrible debater? I said you should leave the kisame debates to me(I was joking) . I guess thats why you negged me and left a dislike on my commentyou clearly can't take a joke, or in other words decipher when someone isn't being serious.



Troyse22 said:


> He's criminally underrated for sure, but someone like you shouldn't be handling these kinds of debates, ones that go hugely in depth, as you're certainly not up to the task.


Regardless if you go in depth or not is mute, if the information you put out is blatantly incorrect in regards to Kisame. Some of it was good I'll admit, like the absorbing chakra through his skin thing, but saying stuff like "Kisame has reaction feats on par with JJ Madara", " Kisame is equal to Nagato", "Kisame around the same tier as VOTE Madara and Hashirama" isn't. I was also *joking* about handling the debates lmfao, though I was serious about you stretching it as you simply make Kisame look worser then he actually is when you do that.



Troyse22 said:


> tl;dr Amaterasu is garbage


Sigh. I don't understand why you go out your way to quote me, to simply say stuff like, honestly.


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## Troyse22 (Mar 24, 2017)

The Death & The Strawberry said:


> egardless if you go in depth or not is mute, if the information you put out is blatantly incorrect in regards to Kisame



What have I said that's blatantly incorrect. What bothers most posters here is I value feats largely over hype and portrayal. Feats put Kisame extremely high.



The Death & The Strawberry said:


> Kisame around the same tier as VOTE Madara and Hashirama"



Kisame being in the same tier, and being near the same tier are two very, VERY different things.

He's not in their tier and i've never stated anything that could be misinterpreted as that.


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## Serene Grace (Mar 24, 2017)

Troyse22 said:


> What have I said that's blatantly incorrect.


Whateves this isn't the place to debate this anyways dude.


Troyse22 said:


> Kisame being in the same tier, and being near the same tier are two very, VERY different things.
> 
> He's not in their tier and i've never stated anything that could be misinterpreted as that.


Doesn't matter what you think. Suggesting either of the two is absolutely ridiculous given the fact that Madara and Hashirama shit bricks on Kisame in terms if feats and lord in terms of portrayal.

Anyways, you have a few holes in the stuff you say, but you are bringing good points along with them. Despite the history me and you have you're a good poster, I'll admit it you've convinced me about things regarding Kisame, and have actually made me rethink how strong he is while also making me intrigued to debate about him. 

Though I would like to to see you argue that Kisame can absorb Itachis susanoo hand or most of it atleast if it gets direct contact with him, also how Kisame counters Itachi in CQC by spitting up a gigantic lake, sending in suiton clones to out number him while also gaining the location advantage


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## The Great One (Mar 24, 2017)

UchihaX28 said:


> Nothing needs to be discussed here. Itachi was already stated to be way out of Kisame's league. At best, Itachi outmaneuvers Kisame with his superior speed, forces him to block attacks or strike a crow clone, and subdue him with Genjutsu like he did against Hebi Sasuke and Bee. Unfortunately for Kisame, he was disoriented by Kurenai's genjutsu and lacks a defensive mechanism that Sasuke and Bee had, so there's no escape for Kisame once this happens. Samehada wouldn't be capable of interfering since Itachi is smart enough to separate a swordsman from his blade. This is common sense.


So Itachi's speed is out of Kisame league when Kisame was trashing V1 Bee... I knew itachi fans got poor comprehensing skill but i did not konw how much.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1 | Disagree 1


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## UchihaX28 (Mar 24, 2017)

Batzzaro29 said:


> So Itachis speed is out of Kisame's league when Kisame was trashing V1 Bee... I knew itachi fans got poor comprehensiong skill but i did not konw how much.



Well you convinced me. Itachi outplayed Sharingan users, Sharingan users outplayed V1 Bee. Now stop acting delusional, you're honestly not worth my time.


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## The Great One (Mar 25, 2017)

UchihaX28 said:


> Well you convinced me. Itachi outplayed Sharingan users, Sharingan users outplayed V1 Bee. Now stop acting delusional, you're honestly not worth my time.


Let's see... Itachi out played 3 fodders and Sasuke who was weak then him and Base Bee almost killed Sasuke alone with 3 others, Made edo itachi retreat and tanked V1 Raikages Lariat and Bee got punked by Kisame... Yeah you are delutional.


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## UchihaX28 (Mar 25, 2017)

Batzzaro29 said:


> Let's see... Itachi out played 3 fodders and Sasuke who was weak then him and Base Bee almost killed Sasuke alone with 3 others, Made edo itachi retreat and tanked V1 Raikages Lariat and Bee got punked by Kisame... Yeah you are delutional.



None of this pertains to speed, so I shouldn't have to refute this disjointed argument.

So again, Itachi blitzed Sharingan Users while V1 Bee was played by a Sharingan User who was weary after being mutiliated by Bee. How is V1 Bee remotely as fast as Itachi? What features does V1 Bee have that suggests he's fast?


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## The Great One (Mar 25, 2017)

UchihaX28 said:


> None of this pertains to speed, so I shouldn't have to refute this disjointed argument.
> 
> So again, Itachi blitzed Sharingan Users while V1 Bee was played by a Sharingan User who was weary after being mutiliated by Bee. How is V1 Bee remotely as fast as Itachi? What features does V1 Bee have that suggests he's fast?


So are you suggesting those featless fodders were stronger then Bee ark Sasuke? Lol...

10/10 VOTE 1 Sasuke could've turned mince meat out of them.

It was actuelly Bee who was playing around while Sasuke and co were getting destroyed.

How V1 Bee is faster then itachi? Well maybe cause of...
kunai
This... that's Base Bee...

Base Bee is fast enough to intercept and counter V2 Raikage.

And Kisame was hanging out with this guy in V1 and V2.

Reactions: Like 1


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## MSAL (Mar 25, 2017)

Been a while since I visited the battledome.

This match up is not as one sided as people think. Troyes is correct is saying that the knowledge Kisame has, can help out Kisame in planning his battle strategies. But, the knowledge goes both ways and knowledge of the techniques does not mean an instant win.

The question here is, can Kisame breakout any of his terrain altering moves whilst combatting Itachi's speed of technique and sleight of hand, especially where his genjutsu is concerned?

Itachi only needs an openin', or to seamlessly cast his genjutsu without his opponent knowing.



It will be a close fight, but I think Itachi would win mid-high diff in the end.





Troyse22 said:


> Kisame, mid diff at the absolute most.
> 
> His knowledge on Itachi is second to none,



They have both been partners for a long time, so they both have knowledge on each other. I don't think there is anything that indicates that Kisame has more knowledge on Itachi than vice versa, especially given Itachi's predilection for knowledge on many characters and levels.



> hes seen how he applies his genjutsu as as its effects.




Naruto knew how to defend against genjutsu by Shippuden and was still caught. Even later on, when he was aware that Itachi didn't just require occular vision to cast a genjutsu, he was still caught inside one.

Killer Bee, knew about Genjutsu, yet he was still caught in a genjutsu.

Kabuto, who had vast amounts of knowledge and knew the effects of genjutsu was still caught in a genjutsu


My point with all these, is that knowledge on genjutsu does not mean it instantly counters the techniques. With a bit of ingenuity (as with Kabuto) and sleight of hand  - no pun intended - and misdirection (as demonstrated with Bee and Naruto) Itachi has nearly always found ways to cast his genjutsu on people. That is what makes him a dangerous opponent to fight against.


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## Ishmael (Mar 25, 2017)

He beats kisame in cqc and takes down kisame pretty quickly mid diff at most, his Ms techniques will prove to be to much for him.


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## The Great One (Mar 25, 2017)

La presagio said:


> He beats kisame in cqc and takes down kisame pretty quickly mid diff at most, his Ms techniques will prove to be to much for him.


Yeah in your fan fiction.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Ishmael (Mar 25, 2017)

Batzzaro29 said:


> Yeah in your fan fiction.



What in there was fan fiction?


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## Ishmael (Mar 25, 2017)

When people call itachi beating kisame with mid difficulty fanfic that's when I start to question their knowledge. Your either trolling or extremely stupid.

I see a short and sweet answer wasn't good enough for some imbeciles, so I'll elaborate.

Moving on. Itachi has the tools and abilities to overwhelm kisame in cqc, his sharingan precog allows him to read movements and the flow of chakra to determine where kisame will aim to strike.
Kisame has no sensory skills or sharingan to see through itachis clone feints, which was on par with kakashi.
The physical strength of kisame isn't going to matter a great deal in this fight, itachi speed and reflexes will help him Dodge and deal with samehada, from what I remember he stalemated kisame with a kunai when going against the sword.

In ninjutsu kisame is superior in water style, while itachi is in fire style. They stalemate but itachis katon combined with amaterasu>kisames water style, itachi is also a water style user. Outside of it itachi pressures kisame and has potential to not even allow him time to get a hand seal going because of how fast he is with throwing shiruken. Even if he manages to complete the hand seal itachis superior hand seal speed will allow him to provide a decent enough for what kisame will try to dish out.

itachi doesn't like prolonged fights he'll choose to end This quickly, once he uses Ms techniques it's over kisame has no counter for amaterasu, samehada cant absorb it not because of the pain but the large Scale the flames come with. Kisame will get caught because he has no feats or such to suggest he'll react to flames that can be cast whenever and just out of thin air. Once susanno comes up, there's nothing thats going to stop itachi yata mirror and totsuka blade ends kisame pretty
quickly too. Itachi mid diff's.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Android (Mar 25, 2017)

La presagio said:


> sharingan to see through itachis clone feints


> Implying the Sharingan can see through clone feints .


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## WorldsStrongest (Mar 25, 2017)

Blu-ray said:


> >He says this despite the _first two_ walls of text sharing my opinion than opposing it.
> 
> Seems like you're the one who doesn't do much reading at all. Save for your fanfics on Kisame anyway.





UchihaX28 said:


> That's quite ironic since you're chastising him for posting a meager response contrary to your own opinion.





GuidingThunder said:


> 8 different users must be given reputation before hitting the same person again


I had the same problem

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Ishmael (Mar 25, 2017)

GuidingThunder said:


> > Implying the Sharingan can see through clone feints .



Wasn't madara able to tell a clone from the real thing in the manga or was that saskue, I'm certain for sure it was one of them.


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## Android (Mar 25, 2017)

La presagio said:


> Wasn't madara able to tell a clone from the real thing in the manga or was that saskue, I'm certain for sure it was one of them.


No , that's a special ability *only Madara* has .
And Madara himself got confused once by a SM clone .


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## Android (Mar 25, 2017)

WorldsStrongest said:


> I had the same problem


I got my rep power back , i'm gonna rep the crap outta ya'll


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## WorldsStrongest (Mar 25, 2017)

GuidingThunder said:


> I got my rep power back , i'm gonna rep the crap outta ya'll


I can rep you as well

REP POWER

Reactions: Like 1


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## Ishmael (Mar 25, 2017)

GuidingThunder said:


> No , that's a special ability *only Madara* has .
> And Madara himself got confused once by a SM clone .



Oh


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## Android (Mar 25, 2017)

WorldsStrongest said:


> I can rep you as well
> 
> REP POWER


Let's go rep @UchihaX28 and @Blu-ray


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## Android (Mar 25, 2017)

La presagio said:


> Oh


 ???


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## WorldsStrongest (Mar 25, 2017)

GuidingThunder said:


> Let's go rep @UchihaX28 and @Blu-ray


Lets do ettt

Reactions: Like 1


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## WorldsStrongest (Mar 25, 2017)

GuidingThunder said:


> Let's go rep @UchihaX28 and @Blu-ray


I still cant rep @Blu-ray !

Damn...

Imma go look for some funny posts to rep and run right back


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## Android (Mar 25, 2017)

WorldsStrongest said:


> I still cant rep @Blu-ray !
> 
> Damn...
> 
> Imma go look for some funny posts to rep and run right back


I wish he could change his name back to @Volatile Soul

Reactions: Funny 1


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## UchihaX28 (Mar 25, 2017)

Batzzaro29 said:


> So are you suggesting those featless fodders were stronger then Bee ark Sasuke? Lol...
> 
> 10/10 VOTE 1 Sasuke could've turned mince meat out of them.
> 
> ...



 Your examples have nothing to do with speed.

 Suigetsu also intercepted Base Bee, so Base Bee isn't as fast you claim he is. Additionally, he was outmaneuvered by Base Sasuke, so can Base Sasuke also intercept V2 Raikage now? No he can't. I suggest you stop this stupidity now.


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## Trojan (Mar 25, 2017)

Troyse22 said:


> The speed at which Kisame's absorption is actually being discussed?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Kisame looked to an uchiha's eyes.



Just saying.

here 2


*Spoiler*: _1_ 











Isn't that your own logic?

Reactions: Winner 2


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## UchihaX28 (Mar 25, 2017)

Hussain said:


> Kisame looked to an uchiha's eyes.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





 Genjutsu GG.


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## Deleted member 211714 (Mar 25, 2017)

Kisame can win in the ocean with a larger distance and full knowledge.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Android (Mar 25, 2017)

Hussain said:


> Kisame looked to an uchiha's eyes.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Ninja'd


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## The Great One (Mar 25, 2017)

La presagio said:


> When people call itachi beating kisame with mid difficulty fanfic that's when I start to question their knowledge. Your either trolling or extremely stupid.
> 
> I see a short and sweet answer wasn't good enough for some imbeciles, so I'll elaborate.
> 
> ...


Kisame made Bee(V1 and V2)his bitch who made Sasuke(Sharingan precog lol) his bitch in base.

Kisame fought Bee blind and was was winning.

I actually like to see chapter where it stated that Itachi is faster then Kisame.

Lol Kisame got his entire mid section blown up and was laughing... Ay was not even reacting to Amaterasu.

Kisame reacting to V1 Bee is feat enough to he is gonna react to everything from Itachi.

Itachis susanoo is slow.


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## Troyse22 (Mar 25, 2017)

Hussain said:


> Kisame looked to an uchiha's eyes.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




He trusted Obito at the time, he was his ally at that moment.

And as for the Yagura situation, Kisame wasnt partners with itachi at the time, he had presumably no knowledge of sharingan or its genjutsu at the time.


I don't expect more from you though, nice try.


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## The Great One (Mar 25, 2017)

UchihaX28 said:


> Your examples have nothing to do with speed.
> 
> Suigetsu also intercepted Base Bee, so Base Bee isn't as fast you claim he is. Additionally, he was outmaneuvered by Base Sasuke, so can Base Sasuke also intercept V2 Raikage now? No he can't. I suggest you stop this stupidity now.


Minato, Lee and Kakashi were creating opening for 8 gated Gai during his fight with JJ Madara so... 8 gate Gai is not fast as everyone thinks.


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## Trojan (Mar 25, 2017)

Troyse22 said:


> He trusted Obito at the time, he was his ally at that moment.
> 
> And as for the Yagura situation, Kisame wasnt partners with itachi at the time, he had presumably no knowledge of sharingan or its genjutsu at the time.
> 
> ...

Reactions: Like 3


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## Troyse22 (Mar 25, 2017)

No... How is that an excuse. He trusted Obito.

And he wasn't part of the Akatsuki when they first met, he never even knew who Itachi was considering Kisame is 20 or so years older.

Excuses and explanations are two different things, get it right.


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## Trojan (Mar 25, 2017)

Troyse22 said:


> No... How is that an excuse. He trusted Obito.
> 
> And he wasn't part of the Akatsuki when they first met, he never even knew who Itachi was considering Kisame is 20 or so years older.
> 
> Excuses and explanations are two different things, get it right.


He did not know Obito the first time they met. Why would he trust him? 
And don't bring the BS that he did not know what "Sharingan" is.

I am sorry man, but it's your own logic.

Kisame saw the Sharingan, so it's Genjutsu GG. There is no way around it. 

He looked at Sasuke's sharingan here 2. 

*Spoiler*: _1_


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## Ishmael (Mar 25, 2017)

Batzzaro29 said:


> Kisame made Bee(V1 and V2)his bitch who made Sasuke(Sharingan precog lol) his bitch in base.
> 
> Kisame fought Bee blind and was was winning.
> 
> ...



So you ignored half of my argument and aimed for probably the weakest section of the points I listed. kind of surprised troyse actually recruited another wanker but oh well..not all of us can have common sense

You're basically comparing kisame to killer bee in terms of speed, which is dumb in your first point.

Itachi fought opponents damn near blind, with a terminal illness and strain on his eyes,  so that point about kisame fighting bee blind kind of confuses me. Also I don't know if that's to provide a argument against kisame getting caught in genjutsu but if it Was...lol its pointless since bee wouldn't have had any genjutsu to cast kisame in.

For your third point isn't itachi
Listed as a 5 in terms of speed. while kisame is a four?? Yes he's faster bud I'm sorry but kisame isn't the speedster you want him to be.

I dont get what you're trying to counter or prove in your fourth point. 

He's not reacting to everything from itachi, we have susanno catching orochimaru off guard and not even registering that totsuka blade was piercing him. We also have susanno being put up in time to respond to lightinginh, didn't susanno also pressure kakashi and grab danzo before he could react?? It isn't slow. I don't know what made you think so


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## UchihaX28 (Mar 25, 2017)

Batzzaro29 said:


> Minato, Lee and Kakashi were creating opening for 8 gated Gai during his fight with JJ Madara so... 8 gate Gai is not fast as everyone thinks.



 So you're telling me interception feats are bullshit, therefore Base Bee's interception feat on Raikage is bullshit as well.

 Thanks for proving my point.


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## Troyse22 (Mar 25, 2017)

Hussain said:


> He did not know Obito the first time they met. Why would he trust him?
> And don't bring the BS that he did not know what "Sharingan" is.
> 
> I am sorry man, but it's your own logic.
> ...




Lol genin Sasuke.

And he didn't trust Obito during the Yagura meeting, he simply never saw sharingan before, if they were battling there, Kisame would have lost.

But once Kisame got partnered with Itachi, he gained absurd amounts of intelligence on Sharingan and MS, even knowing that it takes its physical toll on Itachi.


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## Troyse22 (Mar 25, 2017)

La presagio said:


> kind of surprised troyse actually recruited another wanker but oh well..not all of us can have common sense



Don't call me out, you're annoying


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## Ishmael (Mar 25, 2017)

Troyse22 said:


> Don't call me out, you're annoying



Didn't really call you out but @Troyse22  you're a wanker. That's calling you out bud. One with dumb logic too￼  go ahead and tell the mods I'll be waiting for the

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Android (Mar 25, 2017)

Troyse22 said:


> But once Kisame got partnered with Itachi, he gained absurd amounts of intelligence on Sharingan and MS, even knowing that it takes its physical toll on Itachi.


Are you saying Kisame didn't know about the Sharingan that time ? even tho fodders around the Shinobi world knew about it's abilities ? 
And he was supposed to be looking to Madara , are you saying he never thought that Madara had a Sharingan before ?

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Troyse22 (Mar 25, 2017)

GuidingThunder said:


> Are you saying Kisame didn't know about the Sharingan that time ? even tho fodders around the Shinobi world knew about it's abilities ?
> And he was supposed to be looking to Madara , are you saying he never thought that Madara had a Sharingan before ?




It's never noted that he had contact with Uchiha, not even in anime fillers. There's no basis to assume Kisame knew about Sharingan.

Even if he did that doesn't mean he knows** about its genjutsu abilities.

Are you disputing that partnering with Itachi for years and years have him no knowledge on Itachis most overused shit?


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## Ishmael (Mar 25, 2017)

GuidingThunder said:


> Are you saying Kisame didn't know about the Sharingan that time ? even tho fodders around the Shinobi world knew about it's abilities ?
> And he was supposed to be looking to Madara , are you saying he never thought that Madara had a Sharingan before ?



He'll give you a shit reason or pull an explanation out of his ass bro. I mean honestly he probably noticed how itachi tired out after usage of ms. 

And the uchiha were if not the most popular and known clan through out the ninja world one of the most. They were known for the clans famous weapon the sharingan. 
If he's implying that kisame didn't know madara had the sharingan that's rich and dumb when madaras name alone and people who knew about the power he possesed with his eyes made nations come together and created a war.


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## Android (Mar 25, 2017)

Troyse22 said:


> It's never noted that he had contact with Uchiha, not even in anime fillers. There's no basis to assume Kisame knew about Sharingan.


K  
So fodders had more knowledge about the Sharingan than a fucking SOTM .
Sounds legit 


Troyse22 said:


> Are you disputing that partnering with Itachi for years and years have him no knowledge on Itachis most overused shit?


Uchihas , freaking pure blood Uchiha with freaking Sharingan eyes that can cast Genjutsu , still got caught in each other's Genjutsu .
Yet Kisame somehow can do better .
K


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## Android (Mar 25, 2017)

La presagio said:


> He'll give you a shit reason or pull an explanation out of his ass bro. I mean honestly he probably noticed how itachi tired out after usage of ms.
> 
> And the uchiha were if not the most popular and known clan through out the ninja world one of the most. They were known for the clans famous weapon the sharingan.
> If he's implying that kisame didn't know madara had the sharingan that's rich and dumb when madaras name alone and people who knew about the power he possesed with his eyes made nations come together and created a war.


It happened just as you said


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## Trojan (Mar 25, 2017)

Troyse22 said:


> Lol genin Sasuke.
> 
> And he didn't trust Obito during the Yagura meeting, he simply never saw sharingan before, if they were battling there, Kisame would have lost.
> 
> But once Kisame got partnered with Itachi, he gained absurd amounts of intelligence on Sharingan and MS, even knowing that it takes its physical toll on Itachi.



Man, just stop. You sound desperate. 

Kisame looked at the Sharingan with every single character. Why do you not use your own logic here? 
Here, he looked at Kakashi's eye 2. 




Genjutsu GG, man. 


Genjutsu GG.

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 1


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## Android (Mar 25, 2017)

Hussain said:


> Kishi

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Trojan (Mar 25, 2017)

GuidingThunder said:


>


my bad...


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## Trojan (Mar 25, 2017)

All of that is wishful thinking. Kishi made it clear that itachi is stronger than Kisame. And I am sure everyone here knows that if a battle were to happen between those 2 in the manga, Kishi will side with itachi without a shadow of a doubt.


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## Bonly (Mar 25, 2017)

Troyse22 said:


> Actually yes it is, Kabuto proved that.
> 
> Also, Kisame was canonically blinded by Killer Bee's ink and still managed to hunt him down and attack him with perfect accuracy.
> 
> He can clearly fight effectively without eyesight, a perfect counter to Itachi as proven by Kabuto.



Kabuto has sage sensing which is better then chakra sensing which is what Kisame has and is what Jiraiya was referring to.

No he can't fight effectively without eye sight and using him attacking Killer B doesn't help your point. Did Kisame have to deal with any attacks thrown his way? Did Kisame have to deal with clones? Did Kisame have to deal with blindsides? Answer to all of them is no. Just because he chased down B, that doesn't mean he can fight effectively when someone is actually fighting back. You might as well say Itachi can effectively fight without eye sight since he was blind when fighting Orochi using Yamata and chasing down Sasuke.



> It's never explicitly stated, some things are implicit and don't need to be stated.
> 
> It's clearly not a physical object as it's a liquid that comes from Itachi's Susanoo's gourd. This liquid is presumably comprised of chakra.



Some things don't need to be stated and some things do need to be stated. Just because it's not physically doesn't mean it's outright chakra, it's a spiritual weapon which is a form of Kusanagi blade(the same kind Orochi uses IIRC). So unless you have a statement that says it's made out of chakra or you can show me some other spirit weapons that are made out of chakra to have a ground to stand on, then there's no proof that it is made out of chakra due to it being liquid.




> I love when scans do the talking



I love when people don't know how to read a scan 

Look at the red box. Notice how next to the fire there's a white line in the middle? That white line is to show Killer B swinging Samehada(which you see Killer B completely swinging down in the panel before hand) thus proving that it touched the Katon and then absorbed Katon as it went by them.


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## Serene Grace (Mar 25, 2017)

Hussain said:


> All of that is wishful thinking. Kishi made it clear that itachi is stronger than Kisame. And I am sure everyone here knows that if a battle were to happen between those 2 in the manga, Kishi will side with itachi without a shadow of a doubt.


I'm simply trying to be creative, though I already said Itachi wins and is infact superior to Kisame its just not a low or neg diff. Also don't you think Minato can contest with Hashirama? I don't think I'm the only wishful thinker here

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## Trojan (Mar 25, 2017)

The Death & The Strawberry said:


> I'm simply trying to be creative, though I already said Itachi wins and is infact superior to Kisame its just not a low or neg diff. Also don't you think Minato can contest with Hashirama? I don't think I'm the only wishful thinker here



Frankly, if Kishi were to rewrite the manga, I doubt that he will let Minato even win against the fodder in Kakashi Gaiden. 

> this guy.



So, yeah. If he were to write Hashirama Vs Minato, I wouldn't be surprised if he lets Hashi's wood be faster than FTG, or say his Buddha cannot be teleported via S/T barrier...etc etc.


Meh, I still think Minato's abilities to be better than Hashi's nonetheless.

Reactions: Useful 1


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## Parallaxis (Mar 26, 2017)

Batzzaro29 said:


> Let's see... Itachi out played 3 fodders and Sasuke who was weak then him and Base Bee almost killed Sasuke alone with 3 others, Made edo itachi retreat and tanked V1 Raikages Lariat and Bee got punked by Kisame... Yeah you are delutional.


Lmao,

Are you stupid or something?
The reason why Kisame beat Bee was because he was able to block his attacks in time and absorb his cloak, not keep up with him in a footrace. Not once did he actually match Bee in speed. If he did you'd have a point but you don't so your argument is literally trash.

Reactions: Like 2


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## UchihaX28 (Mar 26, 2017)

PhantomSage said:


> Lmao,
> 
> Are you stupid or something?
> The reason why Kisame beat Bee was because he was able to block his attacks in time and absorb his cloak, not keep up with him in a footrace. Not once did he actually match Bee in speed. If he did you'd have a point but you don't so your argument is literally trash.



We've seen feats of Itachi blitzing Sharingan Users and Perfect Sages while Kisame has no feats of blitzing anyone yet Kisame is the one who is faster than Itachi fml.


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## Rai (Mar 26, 2017)

All there's left to say is: Itachi solos

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## Zexion~ (Mar 26, 2017)

Do people on this site still think Totska can't be absorbed? I'll spell it out here:

-Its a spirit weapon that once one acquired resides within the users being and is manifested with the users strong chakra (hence why Itachi can't just bring it out without using Susano'o) so chakra absorption doesn't absorb the weapon but it absorbs the chakra that is giving said weapon form.

Having said that its an incredibly close matchup lol however Kisame would need to fuse and in that unless he hits him with a GSB would need to go close quarters in which he's susceptible to Tsukuyomi.


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## Troyse22 (Mar 26, 2017)

People consider me a Kisame wanker, and even I don't consider Kisame is a speedster. He has absurd nearly instant reactions and is able to match Bee in CQC no problem, but in a footrace? V2 Bee>V2 Ay>Kisame based on feats. But every high ranking low kage level+ Shinobi has decent foot speed, anyone above that rating has to be decent in everything, otherwise their weak points would be too easily targeted

Kisame is not a "footrace" kind of speedster.

Reactions: Like 1


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## The Great One (Mar 26, 2017)

PhantomSage said:


> Lmao,
> 
> Are you stupid or something?
> The reason why Kisame beat Bee was because he was able to block his attacks in time and absorb his cloak, not keep up with him in a footrace. Not once did he actually match Bee in speed. If he did you'd have a point but you don't so your argument is literally trash.


Are blind? For I remember Kisame dodging V1 Bee stinger at point blank.


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## Zexion~ (Mar 26, 2017)

Troyse22 said:


> People consider me a Kisame wanker, and even I don't consider Kisame is a speedster. He has absurd nearly instant reactions and is able to match Bee in CQC no problem, but in a footrace? V2 Bee>V2 Ay>Kisame based on feats. But every high ranking low kage level+ Shinobi has decent foot speed, anyone above that rating has to be decent in everything, otherwise their weak points would be too easily targeted
> 
> Kisame is not a "footrace" kind of speedster.



I have been preaching this for years lol, he can deal with speed but he's not fast himself, Great post.

Reactions: Friendly 1


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## Troyse22 (Mar 26, 2017)

Makishima said:


> Do people on this site still think Totska can't be absorbed? I'll spell it out here:
> 
> -Its a spirit weapon that once one acquired resides within the users being and is manifested with the users strong chakra (hence why Itachi can't just bring it out without using Susano'o) so chakra absorption doesn't absorb the weapon but it absorbs the chakra that is giving said weapon form.
> 
> Having said that its an incredibly close matchup lol however Kisame would need to fuse and in that unless he hits him with a GSB would need to go close quarters in which he's susceptible to Tsukuyomi.



He's not susceptible to Tsukuyomi if he keeps his eyes closed and attacks Itachi by sensing his chakra through his skin.
With Kisame's level of knowledge it's also perfectly IC, we've seen him strike with perfect accuracy whilst totally blind.


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## Zexion~ (Mar 26, 2017)

Troyse22 said:


> He's not susceptible to Tsukuyomi if he keeps his eyes closed and attacks Itachi by sensing his chakra through his skin.
> With Kisame's level of knowledge it's also perfectly IC, we've seen him strike with perfect accuracy whilst totally blind.



Thats true but Itachi has clones so if he keeps his eyes closed it leaves him more vulnerable to that and grants Itachi a higher chance of escape.


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## UchihaX28 (Mar 26, 2017)

Batzzaro29 said:


> Are blind? For I remember Kisame dodging V1 Bee stinger at point blank.



 He moved his body, but he didn't evade him. It's just a reaction feat which any Sharingan User can accomplish.


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