# Edo Itachi vs Pre-Rinnegan Tobi



## Ersa (Aug 23, 2013)

*Location*: Konoha Crater
*Distance*: 20m
*Restrictions*: Koto
*Mindset*: IC
*Knowledge*: Full.
- Tobi has a sealing tag.


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## Ashi (Aug 23, 2013)

lanetarygio


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## Jagger (Aug 24, 2013)

Well, this is pretty difficult, now with the low chakra reserves problems resolved for Itachi. He could spam bunshins and make all kind of tricks. 

Wait, it depends. Is this the 14 years-old Obito whose skill with Kamui was pretty poor or this is basically Current Obito without the Rinnegan?


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## Ryuzaki (Aug 24, 2013)

Itachi would probably lose because he literally has 0 counter for transparency kamui.


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## eyeknockout (Aug 24, 2013)

obito would probably lose because he literally has 0 counter to getting solo'd


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## crisler (Aug 24, 2013)

Once Itachi finds out how kamui works then Obito dies.

Itachi can simply use bunshins and when oBito phases them itachi can attack from both sides.

A shinobi who uses kage bunshins like Itachi, the 'secret 'jutsus don't work. You'll need something that's hard to fight even knowing its' skilsets. rinnegan, EMS, mokuton, hiraishin...etc

This is why I believe Kakashi is more of a threat to itachi than pre-rinnegan obito, cuz obito can only warp others away while kakashi can literally blow away their body parts.


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## Ersa (Aug 24, 2013)

Ryuzaki said:


> Itachi would probably lose because he literally has 0 counter for transparency kamui.


Unlimited Shadow or Crow clone spam would spell trouble for Obito if he warps a clone into the Kamui world.

Izanami might work if Obito resorts to Izanagi.


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## Legendary Itachi (Aug 24, 2013)

If Itachi's clone enters Kamui dimension, GG Obito. Izanami > Izanagi, Susanoo counters Kamui wrap.
And I will say Amaterasu > Kamui since Obtio has been tricked before.
Itachi takes this handily. Even alive Itachi is a threat to Obito, Edo Itachi is in another tier.


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## Ryuzaki (Aug 24, 2013)

I don't think Itachi would be able to make the connection, he'd sooner release his clone jutsu.


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## Vicotex (Aug 24, 2013)

Maybe to will bfr itachi the way he did danzo guards + he can summon 9tails


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## Vicotex (Aug 24, 2013)

Why was itachi scared of tobi? During his life time


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## Jagger (Aug 24, 2013)

Itachi doesn't need to find out how Kamui works because he already does due the conditions set by the OP.


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## Legendary Itachi (Aug 24, 2013)

Ryuzaki said:


> I don't think Itachi would be able to make the connection, he'd sooner release his clone jutsu.



Itachi is intelligent enough to calculate how long he can maintain his clone. If Kakashi can fight against Pain for a while with Lightning clone, Itachi without stamina problem should perform the feint even better.
With instant Susanoo arm and Amaterasu burnt, Itachi should give Obito's tons of trouble when he tries to Kamui Itachi away or Kamui himself.


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## Vicotex (Aug 24, 2013)

Shit aint funny, itachi cant win cos of gedo mazo


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## Ryuzaki (Aug 24, 2013)

Legendary Itachi said:


> Itachi is intelligent enough to calculate how long he can maintain his clone. If Kakashi can fight against Pain for a while with Lightning clone, Itachi without stamina problem should perform the feint even better.
> With instant Susanoo arm and Amaterasu burnt, Itachi should give Obito's tons of trouble when he tries to Kamui Itachi away or Kamui himself.



I'm not saying he can or can't maintain the clone, what I'm saying as the jutsu is taking place from Obito to suck Itachi up, it'd be easier to either release the clone jutsu (to conserve chakra or just blow it up, because it would have an effect, since technically it would be in both dimensions). 

But I don't where Itachi would have the foresight to actually let his clone get absorbed for no apparent reason.


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## Marsala (Aug 24, 2013)

Vicotex said:


> Why was itachi scared of tobi? During his life time



Itachi thought that he was the real Madara. Also Tobi was careful to avoid confronting him directly.


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## Grimmjowsensei (Aug 24, 2013)

Itachi stomps.


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## IchLiebe (Aug 24, 2013)

Obito wins.

Mokuton, Kamui, Izanagi, GG

Mokuton a god mid- long range skillset that offers defense as well.

Kamui- Itachi may have full knowledge but Obito skillset is so far more superior than Itachi's. I don't see how Itachi can stop a seemingly instant MS jutsu.


I wonder why Obito always wanted to capture people in his dimension if he wasn't able to beat them without Kamui. Im not using this in this discussion, I just wonder what would he have done with Minato in his other dimension, let him starve or does he have the power of god.


Obito 10/10


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## Trojan (Aug 24, 2013)

itachi already admitted that he's weaker than MS obito. Therefore, he will lose. 
and honestly he does not have anything against obito, or perhaps only his izanami!
but too bad for him he can't touch obito even once, let alone 2!


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## Ashi (Aug 24, 2013)

IchLiebe said:


> Obito wins.
> 
> Mokuton, Kamui, Izanagi, GG
> 
> ...



he can only send things in there for 5 minutes


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## Larcher (Aug 24, 2013)

Itachi wins


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## 青月光 (Aug 24, 2013)

Itachi takes this. If worse comes to worse, he can use Izanami, and maybe a well placed genjutsu to give a opening to finish Tobi.


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## IchLiebe (Aug 24, 2013)

TensaXZangetsu said:


> he can only send things in there for 5 minutes



I don't get what your saying.

I know Obito's time limit to stay intangible is for 5 minutes, but he can be intangible for 4 mins 50 seconds, drop Kamui, use it again in less than a 2 second timeframe and he has another 5minutes. Kamui has no cooldown.


Or are you saying that when Obito Kamuis someone they are only stuck in the alternate dimension for 5 minutes which is no true and clearly depicted to not be the case.

Either way, Obito Kamui through all of Itachi attacks, and blitzs him.

Genjutsu isn't doing shit. As of now I put Obito as one of the best genjutsu users in the manga. He was able to control a jin for years, of whom was also the mizukage. Itachi hasn't even put a kage in a genjutsu.


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## kakashibeast (Aug 24, 2013)

Obito wins he s the leader of Akatsuki afterall and he has a hax MS


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## SubtleObscurantist (Aug 24, 2013)

First time commenting in awhile. Normally I would take the other side of this, but Edo Itachi will full knowledge has this. He can maintain Susano'o the whole time and Obito won't be able to touch him since Susano'o radiates chakra out from the caster and it's arms are too fast for Obito to warp the whole thing. With full knowledge, he definitely isn't pulling off Izanami but nor is he getting surprised by Izanagi. His best hope of ending this fast is getting Obito to warp a clone, but Obito takes Itachi too seriously to just let that clone sit there without attendance so if he warped a clone he would make sure to go in and finish it off now that Kakashi showed him that particular shortcoming in his jutsu. 

Honestly, unless Itachi finds some strategy to work this out, this could come down to pure attrition. Of course as an Edo, Itachi has the advantage there, despite Obito's great stamina.


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## Vicotex (Aug 24, 2013)

Marsala said:


> Itachi thought that he was the real Madara. Also Tobi was careful to avoid confronting him directly.



tobi never try to avoid conflict, it was itachi who was scared of the mask man.


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## Rain (Aug 24, 2013)

Why are people voting for Rin?

She's fodder-level and is not even in the matchup.


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## Trojan (Aug 24, 2013)

SubtleObscurantist said:


> First time commenting in awhile. Normally I would take the other side of this, but Edo Itachi will full knowledge has this. He can maintain Susano'o the whole time and Obito won't be able to touch him since Susano'o radiates chakra out from the caster and it's arms are too fast for Obito to warp the whole thing. With full knowledge, he definitely isn't pulling off Izanami but nor is he getting surprised by Izanagi. His best hope of ending this fast is getting Obito to warp a clone, but Obito takes Itachi too seriously to just let that clone sit there without attendance so if he warped a clone he would make sure to go in and finish it off now that Kakashi showed him that particular shortcoming in his jutsu.
> 
> Honestly, unless Itachi finds some strategy to work this out, this could come down to pure attrition. Of course as an Edo, Itachi has the advantage there, despite Obito's great stamina.



obito can go through Susanoo easily.


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## Vicotex (Aug 24, 2013)

SubtleObscurantist said:


> First time commenting in awhile. Normally I would take the other side of this, but Edo Itachi will full knowledge has this. He can maintain Susano'o the whole time and Obito won't be able to touch him since Susano'o radiates chakra out from the caster and it's arms are too fast for Obito to warp the whole thing. With full knowledge, he definitely isn't pulling off Izanami but nor is he getting surprised by Izanagi. His best hope of ending this fast is getting Obito to warp a clone, but Obito takes Itachi too seriously to just let that clone sit there without attendance so if he warped a clone he would make sure to go in and finish it off now that Kakashi showed him that particular shortcoming in his jutsu.
> 
> Honestly, unless Itachi finds some strategy to work this out, this could come down to pure attrition. Of course as an Edo, Itachi has the advantage there, despite Obito's great stamina.



if you want to vote for edo itachi thats fine cos i still have hope jubito cos he can kill edo's


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## IchLiebe (Aug 24, 2013)

Jyuubito can stop Edo's from healing. I.E. Hiruzen, Minato. But this is Obito with everything he has shown other than rinnegan abilities and being a jin. but of course we still have to take in his actions and feats from the war as he hasn't shown any rinnegan abilities as of yet.


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## Vicotex (Aug 24, 2013)

Tobi should take this


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## Elite Uchiha (Aug 24, 2013)

There is a reason Itachi was so close to Tobi, yet didn't do anything


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## Bonly (Aug 24, 2013)

There is a reason why Obito waited for Itachi to die before he moved on with his plans


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## Grimmjowsensei (Aug 24, 2013)

TorJaN said:


> itachi already admitted that he's weaker than MS obito. Therefore, he will lose.
> and honestly he does not have anything against obito, or perhaps only his izanami!
> but too bad for him he can't touch obito even once, let alone 2!



Scans or concede.


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## Elite Uchiha (Aug 24, 2013)

Bonly said:


> There is a reason why Obito waited for Itachi to die before he moved on with his plans



So Sasuke could get the EMS. You right.


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## Trojan (Aug 24, 2013)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> Scans or concede.



I have no power to search now. ~.~ 
it's when itachi said he can't surpass him except with EMS
and that was MS obito.


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## Trojan (Aug 24, 2013)

Bonly said:


> There is a reason why Obito waited for Itachi to die before he moved on with his plans



actually Kurama should be the last one to be sealed. 
So, yeah, obito will have to wait until he get all 8 bijuus.

Nevertheless, Kakuzu and Hidan went their and killed so many people!
itachi & Kisame themselves attacked Kakashi and the others as well as Jman & Naruto. 
and yet again, they attacked team konoha so the akatsuki can get the 1 tail.,,etc


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## Elite Uchiha (Aug 24, 2013)

TorJaN said:


> I have no power to search now. ~.~
> it's when itachi said he can't surpass him except with EMS
> and that was MS obito.



Ye, he stated he needed the EMS to surpass "Madara" and that was Obito. Itachi thought Obito was Madara. 

That was at the beginning of the Itachi vs Sasuke fight. To lazy to find the exact page, but its there.


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## Bonly (Aug 24, 2013)

TorJaN said:


> actually Kurama should be the last one to be sealed.
> So, yeah, obito will have to wait until he get all 8 bijuus.



Because that stops Obito from taking Naruto before hand and controlling him like he did to Yagura, a perfect Jin, oh wait it doesn't. Obito was scared of what the Our King, Lord Itachi might do to him


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## Trojan (Aug 24, 2013)

Bonly said:


> Because that stops Obito from taking Naruto before hand and controlling him like he did to Yagura, a perfect Jin, oh wait it doesn't. Obito was scared of what the Our King, Lord Itachi might do to him



then why your king did not stop him from sealing the 1tail? 
or why your king did not stop Kakuzu and Hidan from going to konoha? 
,,etc


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## Bonly (Aug 24, 2013)

TorJaN said:


> then why your king did not stop him from sealing the 1tail?



Our King, Lord Itachi has no need to go out of his way to help Sunagakure. 



> or why your king did not stop Kakuzu and Hidan from going to konoha?
> ,,etc



Our King, Lord Itachi knew that those two weren't strong enough to take Naruto and Our King, Lord Itachi was right


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## Elite Uchiha (Aug 24, 2013)

"our King" 

Trolling or not, you might want to get checked out


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## Grimmjowsensei (Aug 25, 2013)

TorJaN said:


> I have no power to search now. ~.~
> it's when itachi said he can't surpass him except with EMS
> and that was MS obito.



Oh you mean when Itachi was talking about Madara and his EMS ? The guy who fought Shodai @ Vote ? 

What does it have anything to do with Obito ?


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## Trojan (Aug 25, 2013)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> Oh you mean when Itachi was talking about Madara and his EMS ? The guy who fought Shodai @ Vote ?
> 
> What does it have anything to do with Obito ?



because obviously itachi was referring to obito?  
you know, his teacher? the one who attacked konoha 16 years ago
the one who helped him to massacre his clan and so on 

and as obito said, calling him madara, tobi or no one, it does not matter 
we know (well, other than itachi's fans) that he was talking about obito

just like here
links
do you see madara or obito there?


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Aug 25, 2013)

Kyokan said:


> *Location*: Konoha Crater
> *Distance*: 20m
> *Restrictions*: Koto
> *Mindset*: IC
> ...



Obito stomps. He has nothing that can hurt Obito. Whereas Obito only needs a single touch to win. He can win easily like this.



Grimmjowsensei said:


> Oh you mean when Itachi was talking about Madara and his EMS ? The guy who fought Shodai @ Vote ?
> 
> What does it have anything to do with Obito ?



Actually if you look at the pages Itachi said he judged that it was Madara based on the power within Obito's eyes. So the power within Obito's eyes>Itachi, according to Itachi himself.


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## Miyamoto Musashi (Aug 25, 2013)

Well, 95% of Obito's fighting style is Kamui, so if you can figure it out without getting warped in the process, and figure out a strategy to bypass it, which Itachi should be able to do, you can win.

In other words, Itachi solos.


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Aug 25, 2013)

I Am Probably Wrong said:


> Well, 95% of Obito's fighting style is Kamui, so if you can figure it out without getting warped in the process, and figure out a strategy to bypass it, which Itachi should be able to do, you can win.
> 
> In other words, Itachi solos.



Didn't it take another Kamui to adequately get past it?


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Aug 25, 2013)

Miyamoto Musashi said:


> Mister/Munboy/Googleplex whatever account you're using these days, are you forgetting that Danzo's 2 lapdogs Fu and Torune managed to decipher on the fly how to counter Obito's overrated phasing ability?



And still failed to counter it.



> I don't need to remind you that Itachi is tiers above those fodders in all respects so he realizes the limits of that jutsu( Kamui) then proceeds to comfortably murder Obito. What is left to decide is the degree of difficulty it takes, that is the only debatable part of the match up quite frankly



If you can tell me how he gets past Kamui without special abilities, sure.



> Also the idea that Obito _stomps_ is flat out ridiculous( lucky you i'm 24'd) and just shows how your personal Itachi downgrading agenda clouds your judgement( inb4 you accuse me of ad hominem, focus on Fu and Torune before typing a response and tell me how in the world does Kishimoto's favorite play toy get stomped when facing a guy who can't even deal with 2 fodders without getting injured in the process?)



Ad-hominem is really the central point of your argument here as opposed to an actual argument with any real substance. At this point of the post you've done nothing to explain why I'm wrong except say you think Itachi somehow counters Kamui and called him Kishi's favourite play toy.



> Itachi figures Kamui out on the spur of the moment like he always does( like those 2 fodder did) and then it becomes a matter of time before Obito dies. Also it's not like Obito the man himself stated that if Itachi had more knowledge on him, he'd be six feet under( knowledge that the OP granted both fighters. I wonderif you even read the manga). That's HARD evidence tight there, coming from the horses mouth but as you are usually prone to do, you're going to ignore or rationalize the claim to make it fit with the many head-canons you vent as if they're factual facts



When your main points are "Itachi figures out Kamui on the spur of the moment" and "it becomes a matter before Obito dies", whilst using a quote out of context (Obito referring to an Amaterasu he didn't expect from Sasuke).... You cannot really be in a good position to comment on anybody's judgement. Lets not forget you're guilty of filling your argument with ad-hominem in place of an actual counterargument.

You've not even said _why_ Itachi can get through Kamui, nor what he can do to counter it. The entire backbone of your argument is "its Itachi".

Miyamoto Musashi, if this is how you plan to defend Itachi. Then it will be challenging to take any criticism from you seriously.


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Aug 25, 2013)

Miyamoto Musashi said:


> ahahahahahahahah
> 
> are your eyes genuinely filled with semen? your vision seems blurry as  it looks like you don't read the manga
> 
> ...



Obito said a secretly implanted Amaterasu could kill him if he didn't have a secret. It has no bearing in this fight.

Well I already backed it up, I clearly showed that I don't believe Itachi would be able to defend against Obito simply slipping through his attacks and touch-warping Itachi. I've done my part.
On the other hand, you seem to think that it is "obvious" that Itachi would win, and your stance "comes naturally since the canon backs it up". If your main canon is a quote which isn't applicable in this fight, your entire stance falls apart.  

However if you're referring to something else that you think I'm not accounting for, feel free to mention it.


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## Bonly (Aug 25, 2013)

Miyamoto Musashi said:


> edit:



What skin are you using?


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## SSMG (Aug 25, 2013)

Also the secret obito was talking about wasn't his intangibility....I'm fairly certain he was referring to how half his bofy is.composed of the hashirama dna thus the sneak attack didn't work on obito.


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## Elite Uchiha (Aug 25, 2013)

The only reason Obito was harmed by Torune and Fuu was because he made the mistake of touching Torune. He then went on to snap their necks down the road


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## ATastyMuffin (Aug 25, 2013)

Miyamoto Musashi said:


> are your eyes genuinely filled with semen? your vision seems blurry as  it looks like you don't read the manga



Really?  

We don't need shit like this embarrassing the NBD.


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## Grimmjowsensei (Aug 26, 2013)

TorJaN said:


> because obviously itachi was referring to obito?
> you know, his teacher? the one who attacked konoha 16 years ago
> the one who helped him to massacre his clan and so on
> 
> ...



Itachi thought he was Madara.
So Itachi thought Tobi had Madara's power, regardless Tobi had it or not. 




Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> Actually if you look at the pages Itachi said he judged that it was Madara based on the power within Obito's eyes. So the power within Obito's eyes>Itachi, according to Itachi himself.



Never happened.

Itachi was talking about Madara in his prime, he wasn't imagining the masked man, but the guy with the EMS.


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## IchLiebe (Aug 26, 2013)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> Itachi thought he was Madara.
> So Itachi thought Tobi had Madara's power, regardless Tobi had it or not.


 And what exactly did Itachi think Madara's powers were? Kamui? Amaterasu?, Tsukuyomi? Maybe a Susanoo? We don't know and neither did Itachi. Tobi went be the moniker that he was Madara of whom was grievously wounded by Hashirama and thus isn't able to access his full power. And Itachi with that story decided that he couldn't beat Tobi? No what told Itachi that he couldn't beat Tobi was his S/T jutsu, Mokuton, MS Sharingan, Gedo Mazo. Even if Itachi did believe that Tobi was Madara, he would still not accept that he was inferior to someone that is just a shell of his former self and who has the same tools as you do. Plus did he actually believe that Madara lived for over 100years, and could still whoop his ass? No it when Tobi massacred more than half the clan and by just his S/T some people deemed him unbeatable.


> Never happened.
> 
> Itachi was talking about Madara in his prime, he wasn't imagining the masked man, but the guy with the EMS.



Oh so Itachi was thinking more than 100 years in the past to size up his opponent? That sounds dumb, if Madara was in his prime 100years ago and has be degrading at a steady pace, the friend should've been god if Itachi still couldn't think he could hold a candle to him 100years after his prime.


Itachi never interacted with Madara. He though that Madara was Tobi and Tobi's skillset was that of Madara's.


Stop saying Itachi thought he was Madara because it doesn't matter. Itachi realized that from Tobi's skillset that he couldn't defeat him in a straight up fight.


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## Grimmjowsensei (Aug 26, 2013)

IchLiebe said:


> And what exactly did Itachi think Madara's powers were? Kamui? Amaterasu?, Tsukuyomi? Maybe a Susanoo? We don't know and neither did Itachi. Tobi went be the moniker that he was Madara of whom was grievously wounded by Hashirama and thus isn't able to access his full power. And Itachi with that story decided that he couldn't beat Tobi? No what told Itachi that he couldn't beat Tobi was his S/T jutsu, Mokuton, MS Sharingan, Gedo Mazo. Even if Itachi did believe that Tobi was Madara, he would still not accept that he was inferior to someone that is just a shell of his former self and who has the same tools as you do. Plus did he actually believe that Madara lived for over 100years, and could still whoop his ass? No it when Tobi massacred more than half the clan and by just his S/T some people deemed him unbeatable.
> 
> 
> Oh so Itachi was thinking more than 100 years in the past to size up his opponent? That sounds dumb, if Madara was in his prime 100years ago and has be degrading at a steady pace, the friend should've been god if Itachi still couldn't think he could hold a candle to him 100years after his prime.
> ...


Itachi had fuckloads of knowledge. He knew about EMS, Izanami and Izanagi, he could even use Izanami himself.

Even if you believe Itachi didn't have any exclusive knowledge on Madara, he still knew historical details about him, like for example he fought Shodai @ Vote.

So at least Itachi knew Madara was around Shodai's level, and if he thought Tobi was Madara, Itachi knew he was supposed to be as strong as or close to Hashirama.

So it is irrelevant whether Itachi thought Tobi was Madara or not. Tobi used Madara's reputation. His power is a part of that.


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## Ezekial (Aug 26, 2013)

Pre Rinnegan Tobi had Mokuton and Kamui - He wins easily.


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Aug 26, 2013)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> Never happened.
> 
> Itachi was talking about Madara in his prime, he wasn't imagining the masked man, but the guy with the EMS.



Happened. 

Itachi also said Madara's ocular powers still lived on, obviously basing it off meeting "Madara" himself.


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## Grimmjowsensei (Aug 26, 2013)

Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> Happened.
> 
> Itachi also said Madara's ocular powers still lived on, obviously basing it off meeting "Madara" himself.



He either was referring to Madara's eyes in Nagato's eye sockets or Historical Madara's EMS.
Because we(and Itachi of course) know for a fact that Obito has only 1 sharingan and it is not EMS.


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## Elite Uchiha (Aug 26, 2013)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> Itachi had fuckloads of knowledge. He knew about EMS, Izanami and Izanagi, he could even use Izanami himself.
> 
> .



Everyone and there momma could use Izanagi and Izanami according to Itachi. In fact, the Uchiha abused the shit out of it.


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## Baroxio (Aug 26, 2013)

Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> Happened.
> 
> Itachi also said Madara's ocular powers still lived on, obviously basing it off meeting "Madara" himself.


Even if that's so, the power that Itachi is referring to in that scan is the power that tamed shinobi clans and matched with Senju Hashirama. Specifically, the Eternal Magenkyou Sharingan. That's not a power Obito ever possessed.

On the next page, he even goes on to call the Obito that he met "nothing more than a failure" while rambling about being "the one who shall fulfill the potential of the Uchiha Clan," implying that said potential has yet to be filled regardless of Past Madara and Fake Madara's actions. In other words, Itachi is clearly talking about surpassing the Madara that, you know, wasn't a "failure" or a "shell of his former self."

If you wanted to surpass Muhammad Ali, one would think you'd be talking about the boxing legend in his prime, not the decrepit 71 year old he is today.


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## Ryuzaki (Aug 26, 2013)

If this is a straight up fight between the two, I just don't see Itachi (or rather anyone else) getting past the transparency aspect of Kamui. Kakashi is probably the only that could do it but that's because of his obvious connection to the technique.


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## Baroxio (Aug 26, 2013)

Ryuzaki said:


> If this is a straight up fight between the two, I just don't see Itachi (or rather anyone else) getting past the transparency aspect of Kamui. Kakashi is probably the only that could do it but that's because of his obvious connection to the technique.


Itachi has clones and Edo Regenerating Chakra. Obito can't do shit to him. If he tries for Kamui he warps a clone and it's GG. He tries Izanagi then Itachi uses Izanami and GG. Everything else gets Susano'd, Amaterasu'd, etc.

Then there's genjutsu. Obito engaged in a little genjutsu war with Kakashi. If he does that against Itachi, he can make a clone and GG.

How does Obito defeat an Itachi with infinite chakra and more importantly, full knowledge?


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## Ennoia (Aug 26, 2013)

Knowing Itachi he could probably hit Obito with a kunai from his blindspot once he becomes tangible.


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## Trojan (Aug 26, 2013)

Baroxio said:


> Itachi has clones and Edo Regenerating Chakra. Obito can't do shit to him. If he tries for Kamui he warps a clone and it's GG. He tries Izanagi then Itachi uses Izanami and GG. Everything else gets Susano'd, Amaterasu'd, etc.
> 
> Then there's genjutsu. Obito engaged in a little genjutsu war with Kakashi. If he does that against Itachi, he can make a clone and GG.
> 
> How does Obito defeat an Itachi with infinite chakra and more importantly, full knowledge?



Minato, Naruto, B and Kakashi all have clones we did not see how obito warped a clone
and GG as you said! that just ridiculous, or else they would've done that! 

but no, obito can destroy the clones. However, IF itachi was lucky and that did happen
then what you said is going to be true. Although the chances are low.


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## Ryuzaki (Aug 26, 2013)

Baroxio said:


> Itachi has clones and Edo Regenerating Chakra. Obito can't do shit to him. If he tries for Kamui he warps a clone and it's GG. He tries Izanagi then Itachi uses Izanami and GG. Everything else gets Susano'd, Amaterasu'd, etc.
> 
> Then there's genjutsu. Obito engaged in a little genjutsu war with Kakashi. If he does that against Itachi, he can make a clone and GG.
> 
> How does Obito defeat an Itachi with infinite chakra and more importantly, full knowledge?


I didn't read the Edo part, I thought this was alive Itachi.


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## Baroxio (Aug 26, 2013)

TorJaN said:


> Minato, Naruto, B and Kakashi all have clones we did not see how obito warped a clone
> and GG as you said! that just ridiculous, or else they would've done that!
> 
> but no, obito can destroy the clones. However, IF itachi was lucky and that did happen
> then what you said is going to be true. Although the chances are low.


Both times when BM Naruto's clone and Kakashi were warped into Kamui land it was basically GG, were it not for plot. Kakashi even punches Tobi in his stomach hard enough to draw blood; if that was a Raikiri fist then this manga would be fucking over by now. 

And Naruto's clone Rasengan'd him in the face, but all it did was break his mask. Rather than staying there to GG Obito some more though, it vanished because the plot told it to vanish.

Neither Bee nor Minato use clones that often, especially Minato, who never used the jutsu before gaining KCM. Itachi on the other hand, uses a Bunshin in every battle, just like Naruto and Kakashi. He'll use it here.

As for Obito going into Kamui to destroy the clone, lol, with what? Everything about him relies on Kamui for power. He can't avoid attacks in Kamui land because there is no Kamui, he can't teleport in Kamui land because there is no Kamui, he can't even use his huge ass Katon because there is no Kamui. All he has is fodder level mokuton that isn't going to faze Itachi in the slightest and one of the weakest Katon Gokyakus in the manga. He can't even fire Kamui speed projectiles, not like it would matter against Itachi the projectile king.

Hell, even entering into Kamui land could leave Obito shanked; when he went in against Kakashi, Kakashi bitchslapped him and hopped back on his own (again, if that were a Raikiri...). Regardless, Itachi's clone stomps Kamui-less Obito as easily as Kakashi did. Even easier, even, since in a close match like the one that hurt Kakashi, Itachi's Kage Bunshin can just explode. At which point Obito is dead or crippled like he was against Konan. Obito without Kamui is a fucking joke.

Obito needs Rinnengan or Juubi or something to beat Itachi, because Kamui isn't enough, *especially *when Itachi is an Edo and can just keep Susano up all day every day. If Itachi didn't have Edo buffs then arguments could be made for Obito outlasting with Senju cells, but as it stands, Infinite chakra >> lots of chakra.

*EDIT:*


^ If this was a Raikiri then G-motherfucking-G.


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Aug 27, 2013)

Baroxio said:


> Even if that's so, the power that Itachi is referring to in that scan is the power that tamed shinobi clans and matched with Senju Hashirama. Specifically, the Eternal Magenkyou Sharingan. That's not a power Obito ever possessed.
> 
> On the next page, he even goes on to call the Obito that he met "nothing more than a failure" while rambling about being "the one who shall fulfill the potential of the Uchiha Clan," implying that said potential has yet to be filled regardless of Past Madara and Fake Madara's actions. In other words, Itachi is clearly talking about surpassing the Madara that, you know, wasn't a "failure" or a "shell of his former self."
> 
> If you wanted to surpass Muhammad Ali, one would think you'd be talking about the boxing legend in his prime, not the decrepit 71 year old he is today.



Itachi would only know that the power of Madara's eyes are still around if he was around said power... He was around Obito.

Sure Obito wasn't on the level of Madara, but Itachi still claimed that he retained "Madara's" ocular powers. Something he needed the EMS to match.

You can try to rationalise it as much as you want. The facts are:  Itachi said Madara's eyes are still around; Itachi knew Obito as Madara; Itachi said to surpass this weakened Madara he needed the EMS.


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## Star★Platinum (Aug 27, 2013)

Baroxio said:


> Both times when BM Naruto's clone and Kakashi were warped into Kamui land it was basically GG, were it not for plot. Kakashi even punches Tobi in his stomach hard enough to draw blood; if that was a Raikiri fist then this manga would be fucking over by now.
> 
> And Naruto's clone Rasengan'd him in the face, but all it did was break his mask. Rather than staying there to GG Obito some more though, it vanished because the plot told it to vanish.
> 
> ...



 **


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Aug 27, 2013)

The fact Itachi chose to sneak attack Obito (through Sasuke) rather than confront him directly should say a lot. Even more so considering Itachi outwardly said he needed the EMS to compete with Obito.


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## Laozy (Aug 27, 2013)

Obito is too fast for clones. When he goes Moukuton and wipes out the Amegakure shinobi there were about 30 of them attacking him at once. Naruto, who is faster than V2 Raikage + Bee + Kakashi + Gai find it very hard to hit him until they get the Kamui data..

He just pressures Itachi until his eyes die, then kills him in CQC.


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## Elite Uchiha (Aug 27, 2013)

He warps Itachi and Susanoo


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## Laozy (Aug 27, 2013)

By the way, did you guys forget that Obito can teleport out, steal a bunch of kunai, shuriken and paper bombs, and maybe a Bijuu or two, then nuke him from behind?


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Aug 27, 2013)

Alternatively Obito could just run and stab Itachi. That would immobilise Itachi long enough to send him to Kamui land... Kabuto was able to immobilise Itachi with a simple slash.

However, instead of Mokuton he could his Outer Path stake, which takes Itachi out the moment it stabs him. This has worked on Edo Tensei before.

No offence, or defence Itachi can think of can work.

In other words Obito can fodderise Itachi with a simple Kamui like I said in my .

Unless we give Itachi things like the Rinnegan or Kamui... I don't see how he is _not_ going to be stomped.


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## SSMG (Aug 27, 2013)

All itachi needs to do to win is get pbito to faze twice than bam hits him with izanami gg.


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## Vicotex (Aug 27, 2013)

Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> The fact Itachi chose to sneak attack Obito (through Sasuke) rather than confront him directly should say a lot. Even more so considering Itachi outwardly said he needed the EMS to compete with Obito.



you got my point


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## Vicotex (Aug 27, 2013)

Laozy said:


> By the way, did you guys forget that Obito can teleport out, steal a bunch of kunai, shuriken and paper bombs, and maybe a Bijuu or two, then nuke him from behind?



yeah thats tru


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## Garcher (Aug 27, 2013)

itachi solos, nuff said.


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## Legendary Itachi (Aug 27, 2013)

Because Itachi knows that MS will harm his body and eyesight, he needs EMS to battle Obito. That doesn't mean he can't fight Obito with his MS. Obito treats Itachi as threat and who says he doesn't beware Itachi's power? Itachi knows he's inferior to MS Obito, but he can put up a fight to him.

And why is that important in this thread when Itachi no longer suffers from overused MS and knows how Obito's abilities work?

This is Edo Itachi, actually EMS without new abilities but with infinite chakra. Saying hitting Itachi is so easy when he can spam Susanoo......especially with full intel on how Kamui works. Oh, and what else Obito has to overcome Susanoo without Kamui? Kamui'ing 2 fodders isn't that impressive compared to Itachi lol.


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Aug 27, 2013)

Legendary Itachi said:


> Obito treats Itachi as threat and who says he doesn't beware Itachi's power?



Threat because he could tell everyone about "Madara". Itachi's power was irrelevant to Obito.



> This is Edo Itachi, actually EMS without new abilities but with infinite chakra. Saying hitting Itachi is so easy when he can spam Susanoo......especially with full intel on how Kamui works. Oh, and what else Obito has to overcome Susanoo without Kamui? Kamui'ing 2 fodders isn't that impressive compared to Itachi lol.



Two fodders show how easily Obito can land Kamui. Itachi's shown nothing to suggest he can do better. Full knowledge wouldn't help unless you have certain abilities... Itachi's abilities aren't among those certain abilities that would help.


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## Ryuzaki (Aug 27, 2013)

Baroxio said:


> *EDIT:*
> 
> 
> ^ If this was a Raikiri then G-motherfucking-G.



Kakashi really let Obito off easy on numerous occasions, but towards the end he did end up mortally wounding him. The Juubi really saved him a whole lot.


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## sanninme rikudo (Aug 28, 2013)

susanoo totsuka and yata mirror and obito is slumbering


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## P3IN (Aug 28, 2013)

If has intel on kamui I'm not even sure how the fuck obito is gonna do shit against itachi  (no fanboying)


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## Grimmjowsensei (Aug 29, 2013)

Elite Uchiha said:


> Everyone and there momma could use Izanagi and Izanami according to Itachi. In fact, the Uchiha abused the shit out of it.



Back in the day, in an unknown time period. 

A walking encyclopedia like Kabuto didn't know shit about Izanami.
Neither did Sasuke, despite going to the Uchiha shrine. So these 2 jutsu were obviously not common knowledge.



Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> Alternatively Obito could just run and stab Itachi.



Only that Itachi isn't just some 3rd grade fodder, so If Obito tried to pull that shit on Itachi, Itachi'd just grab him and toss him around like an infant or just flash activate Susano'o and tear him like a cardboard unless of course Obito activates phasing in which case it would be impossible to physically interract with Itachi.


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## Maunten (Aug 29, 2013)

How does itachi win!?.....fandom, this pole sheesh.


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## Vicotex (Aug 29, 2013)

There is no way itachi gonna win this


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## Ghost (Aug 29, 2013)

Itachi rips him in pieces.


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## Vicotex (Aug 29, 2013)

Itachi get kamuied, and obito summon kurama its a gg


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Aug 29, 2013)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> Only that Itachi isn't just some 3rd grade fodder, so *If Obito tried to pull that shit on Itachi, Itachi'd just grab him and toss him around like an infant *or just flash activate Susano'o and tear him like a cardboard unless of course Obito activates phasing in which case it would be impossible to physically interract with Itachi.



Fodder is your only argument; it isn't an adequate shield as you've not said why Itachi wouldn't fall like a fodder.

If Itachi had Minato level speed, or abilities like the Rinnegan, the part in bold would actually be believable.


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## blk (Aug 29, 2013)

Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> Fodder is your only argument; it isn't an adequate shield as you've not said why Itachi wouldn't fall like a fodder.
> 
> If Itachi had Minato level speed, or abilities like the Rinnegan, the part in bold would actually be believable.



Susano'o should suffice.


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## Orochimaruwantsyourbody (Aug 30, 2013)

Normally I would take Pre Rinnegan Obito, but under these conditions I favor Itachi to win an attritional battle.

Most of Pre Rinnegan Obito has a very limited arsenal. His Mokuton and Katons are not bad attacks by any means, but they cannot breach Susano, which Edo Itachi can use without limitation. They can also be dodged by a speedster with Sharingan Precog like Itachi, or Bunshin Feinted. I do not see those playing a big role in this match up. 

Kamui and Izanagi are normally what wins Pre Rinnegan Obito his matches, but with knowledge their effectiveness is cut in half. To further reduce their effectiveness, Obito has very few techniques he can use to take Itachi's focus of Kamui/Izanagi, and few techniques he can use to disguise them. Susano can partially counter both, and Bunshin are extremely effective counters as well. So long as Obito has no other tricks up his sleeve, someone as clever as Itachi, with the perks of Edo Tensei, will be able to effectively counter these attacks virtually every time with Bunshins and Susano. 

Obito meanwhile can use Kamui to put up a solid defense against Itachi's attacks, but he does not have a good way to end it. Amaterasu and Karasu Bunshin pose a grave danger to him. With knowledge, neither technique will be easy for Itachi to employ, but not impossible. Furthermore, Itachi has limitless stamina while Obito does not. 

Eventually, Obito will begin to wear down and make a mistake. The King takes it, 9/10. Obito gets a lucky warp 1/10.


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