# Pestering women in the street to be outlawed



## Magic (Dec 5, 2021)

Public sexual harassment, such as cat-calling and making sexually explicit comments, to be made an offence in wake of Sarah Everard murder 

   Home Affairs Editor    3 December 2021 • 9:30pm 


 A new offence of public sexual harassment seems more likely, with the Law Commission likely to recommend it   Credit: Ian West/PA Wire 

 or in pubs and making lewd comments at them could become an offence under plans to criminalise “public sexual harassment”, which are set to be announced next week.

A government-commissioned review of hate crimes will call for public sexual harassment and inciting hatred against women to be  as part of an overhaul of laws to protect women and girls against violence.
But the review by the Law Commission - the body responsible for framing hundreds of the UK’s laws - will reject  because it believes it would be ineffective, according to Whitehall sources.
The new offence of public sexual harassment is seen as a more effective way of protecting women against violence than classing misogyny as a hate crime alongside race, religion, sexual orientation, disability or transgender identity, Whitehall sources have said.
The Law Commission also decided it could make it harder to prosecute crimes such as domestic abuse and would create two-tier sentencing, depending on whether a sexual offence was shown to be a hate crime.

The move will be part of a week of government crime announcements, which include a crackdown on drug gangs, a new law to put victims at the heart of the criminal justice system, and prison reforms to reduce reoffending by .
A Whitehall source said: “The Law Commission is not going to class misogyny as a hate crime because it would be ineffective and in some cases counterproductive.
“But it will call for a public sexual harassment offence, which doesn’t currently exist. It thinks this fits with other work the Government is doing on criminalising intimate image abuse and will be more productive and better in protecting women.”

The Law Commission review of hate crimes was , then Home Secretary.
It has since become even more important following the , which sparked a huge national debate on violence against women.
 Sarah Everard's death sparked widespread protests on the issue of women's violence   Credit: Tolga Akmen/AFP 
In the wake of Miss Everard's killing, ministers said they would consider if there should be a  that would criminalise explicit sexual and abusive behaviour or comments made in public.
Draft legislation prepared by campaigners covers behaviour including intentionally pressing against someone on public transport, persistent sexual propositioning or cornering someone, making sexually explicit comments, leering at a person and cat-calling.
It makes clear that police and prosecutors would have to show the behaviour would cause “harassment, distress or alarm” with an intent to “humiliate or degrade” an alleged victim.
Dr Charlotte Proudman, a barrister who helped draft the proposed bill, said it would also have to be in the public interest to prosecute. 
“It could be someone shouting degrading, humiliating comments with lewd language to a woman walking down the street that makes them feel unsafe,” she said.
“If someone came up to you in a pub, didn’t leave you alone, made foul comments about your body, and was persistently following you around, maybe that would be captured.”
It is understood ministers are in favour of the new offences proposed by the Law Commission, as long as it can be shown that they plug gaps in current laws for common assault and public order breaches. Recommendations made by the Law Commission are generally accepted by the Government.
Priti Patel said earlier this year that  after Ms Everard’s death.
The Home Secretary said verbal or physical abuse of women in the street were not “low-level” crimes and could lead to more serious offences. .

 Wayne Couzens, Sarah Everard's murderer, had escaped prosecution for alleged flashing offences   Credit: Metropolitan Police/PA Wire 
Nimco Ali, the feminist campaigner advising the Government on its violence against women strategy, said new legislation was needed to show such behaviour was unacceptable.
“It’s like seatbelt laws or the smoking ban. In order for social norms to change, you have to have legislation and then society will police it,” she said.
But the decision not to make misogyny a hate crime is likely to face a backlash from women’s groups, as it would have enabled police and prosecutors to ask for tougher sentences for some crimes against women.

The Law Commission is also expected to propose extending the offence of "stirring up hatred" to include provoking violence on the grounds of gender.
That is partly in response to the  - involuntarily celibate men, some of whom have been responsible for violent and fatal attacks on women.
It will also strengthen protections for freedom of speech, so that .

Reactions: Like 1


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## Canute87 (Dec 5, 2021)

> "Public sexual harassment, such as cat-calling and making sexually explicit comments, to be made an offence in wake of Sarah Everard murder"



I don't understand this.

  Murder and rape is the justification for  making  catcalling a crime?

Reactions: Agree 2 | Disagree 1


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## ClandestineSchemer (Dec 5, 2021)

Like you could possibly enforce this.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Magic (Dec 5, 2021)

DemonDragonJ said:


> I agree with this, because, while I agree that men should stop displaying such behavior, making such behavior punishable by law sounds dangerously close to violating freedom of speech, which is one of the most important aspects of any democratic society.


Read the article. Automatically assuming it's in the U.S.


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## stream (Dec 5, 2021)

I'm not sure that's the right way to handle the issue, but I do know girls who don't want to walk alone in big cities because of this.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## DemonDragonJ (Dec 5, 2021)

RemChu said:


> Read the article. Automatically assuming it's in the U.S.



I did see that it is in the United Kingdom, but the UK is, as far as I am aware, a democratic nation, with the royal family being mostly figureheads at this point, so I thought that freedom of speech would be important to them, as well.


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## Orochibuto (Dec 5, 2021)

I suspected it was the UK before even reading the article. Unsurprisingly, I was right.


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## Orochibuto (Dec 5, 2021)

DemonDragonJ said:


> I agree with this, because, while I agree that men should stop displaying such behavior, making such behavior punishable by law sounds dangerously close to violating freedom of speech, which is one of the most important aspects of any democratic society.



Free speech is so 2000s, we are in 2021, now "WaRDz HaVE CuNTSeQUEnCES" get on with the program, boomer.

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Eros (Dec 5, 2021)

DemonDragonJ said:


> I did see that it is in the United Kingdom, but the UK is, as far as I am aware, a democratic nation, with the royal family being mostly figureheads at this point, so I thought that freedom of speech would be important to them, as well.


So, you think it's okay to walk down the street and tell a stranger that she has nice tits or suggest that you would like to have sexual intercourse with her? You think freedom of speech is without limitation?


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## ЯƎWO⅃ᖷ (Dec 5, 2021)

catcalling makes me feel like digging a hole in the ground and crawling in there until it's safe to come out

so yeah

i'm OK with this

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 3 | Friendly 1 | Optimistic 1


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## Orochibuto (Dec 5, 2021)

ClandestineSchemer said:


> Like you could possibly enforce this.



Oh you can, its easy. Just strip men of their right to be presumed innocent, elevate women to superior citizenship by making their word count as proof when accusing of this, while makimg men's word of denial to have less weight than the accusation, easy.

Reactions: Like 2 | Funny 1 | Disagree 1


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## ЯƎWO⅃ᖷ (Dec 5, 2021)

Canute87 said:


> I don't understand this.
> 
> Murder and rape is the justification for  making  catcalling a crime?





DemonDragonJ said:


> I agree with this, because, while I agree that men should stop displaying such behavior, making such behavior punishable by law sounds dangerously close to violating freedom of speech, which is one of the most important aspects of any democratic society.





ClandestineSchemer said:


> Like you could possibly enforce this.





stream said:


> I'm not sure that's the right way to handle the issue, but I do know girls who don't want to walk alone in big cities because of this.



lock 'em up, constable

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Orochibuto (Dec 5, 2021)

Canute87 said:


> I don't understand this.
> 
> Murder and rape is the justification for  making  catcalling a crime?



Repressive lawmaking 101: use moral outrage and serious crimes to create new crimes limiting rights, like speech.

Reactions: Agree 2 | Winner 2 | Disagree 1


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Dec 5, 2021)

Orochibuto said:


> I suspected it was the UK before even reading the article. Unsurprisingly, I was right.



Same


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## Canute87 (Dec 5, 2021)

Orochibuto said:


> Repressive lawmaking 101: use moral outrage and serious crimes to create new crimes limiting rights, like speech.


So basically it's  emotional manipulation to push agenda's forward.

Reactions: Agree 3 | Disagree 1


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## Eros (Dec 5, 2021)

DemonDragonJ said:


> I am a millennial, two generations removed from the baby boomers.
> 
> 
> 
> I certainly do not believe that, but, if such words are punishable by law, what will stop the government from making a law that punishes people who criticize the government or politicians?


The point of free speech is to allow citizens to criticize the government.

Reactions: Agree 2 | Winner 1


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## DemonDragonJ (Dec 5, 2021)

Shinra Kusakabe said:


> The point of free speech is to allow citizens to criticize the government.



Yes, I agree with that, but being able to criticize other private citizens (most especially those who are wealthy or otherwise have great political power) is very important, as well.

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## Yami Munesanzun (Dec 5, 2021)

"We are not OVARY-acting"

You know what, that's clever. +1

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 3


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## Gin (Dec 5, 2021)

has the woman on the right srsly been cat called

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 4 | Disagree 2 | Dislike 1


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Dec 5, 2021)

Speaking as a guy who was catcalled by a crazy homeless woman one time (this isn't me trying to demonize the homeless) I can say that this shit is 100% foul. I won't even repeat the shit she said or did because it would be worse than the shit I usually get up to on here and could get me in trouble. People act like they should be able to run around and say whatever they want in public because it's speech, but free speech is the biggest crock of shit this country lets people believe they have. 

The men who do this shit know women can't deck them, can't defend themselves, so they know women won't say anything back because of the implication that if the woman does there's always violence that the man can inflict. He could always just hit her or worse and many men do. 

The power dynamic is why men do this and think it's okay. It's why some sinister white women do this to black men without fearing repercussions because they know that if they claim anything bad happened to them society and the media will fill in the blanks. 

Approaching women on the street or in public places to talk or just talking to someone is not what we're talking about here. Catcalling is a distinct thing and if you're afraid of this law you're probably doing some form of it because otherwise there's no reason to be scared. 



Orochibuto said:


> Free speech is so 2000s, we are in 2021, now "WaRDz HaVE CuNTSeQUEnCES" get on with the program, boomer.


I think if you cat call and a woman whoops your ass it should be considered her speech.

Reactions: Like 3 | Dislike 2


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## Orochibuto (Dec 5, 2021)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> I think if you cat call and a woman whoops your ass it should be considered her speech.



My problem is getting the state involved in this, if I catcall a woman and she replies with a barrage of insults and humilliation, it is completely within her speech rights.

In fact, it is within her rights even if I dont mess with her.


Save a few exceptions, words are not to be punished by the state.

Reactions: Agree 4 | Disagree 1


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## Canute87 (Dec 5, 2021)

Gin said:


> has the woman on the right srsly been cat called


More than likely.


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## Gin (Dec 5, 2021)

Canute87 said:


> More than likely.


some sahara desert ass use bros out there

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 1


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## Gin (Dec 5, 2021)

but OT yeah, it is kinda harassment and annoying and potentially intimidating depending on how it's done


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## Canute87 (Dec 5, 2021)

Gin said:


> some sahara desert ass use bros out there


yup.


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## Death Certificate (Dec 5, 2021)

Gin said:


> has the woman on the right srsly been cat called



Probably. Most women are cat-called at a very young age.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## DemonDragonJ (Dec 5, 2021)

Death Certificate said:


> Probably. Most women are cat-called at a very young age.



What is wrong with the men who do that? Where do they learn such behavior?


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Dec 5, 2021)

Orochibuto said:


> My problem is getting the state involved in this, if I catcall a woman and she replies with a barrage of insults and humilliation, it is completely within her speech rights.
> 
> In fact, it is within her rights even if I dont mess with her.
> 
> ...


Slander
Libel
Yelling fire in theaters 
inciting a riot
In some areas cursing can get you a ticket

Words aren't punished by the state if you're wealthy or when they are they're punished to a lesser degree. The cult of free speech is seemingly made up of people who push so hard to protect it until they get control at which time they restrict what people can and can't say and do.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Dec 5, 2021)

DemonDragonJ said:


> What is wrong with the men who do that? Where do they learn such behavior?


Other men do it and they see it, it's seen in all kinds of media and spoken about in music and everything. It is seen as being "how men just act". Some women take it for granted that men are going to do these kinds of things. I didn't think that it was a common or even a big deal until I was hanging out with a friend for long stints of time and she would get shouted at or even grabbed in public. 

And a lot of people think you should take it as a compliment or something, but honestly women of all types and ages seem to get it to varying degrees and some men don't know when to quit and will do things like follow women or have a freak out when told no. 

So the idea that a woman can just say something snarky back or walk away isn't always just going to work.


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## Eros (Dec 5, 2021)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Yes, I agree with that, but being able to criticize other private citizens (mot especially those who are wealthy or otherwise have great political power) is very important, as well.


Yes it is. Still, we should consider how unwanted sexual advances make people feel. Should a woman feel like a sex object when she is walking down the street from her flat (apartment) in Brighton to the office where she works? I don't think so.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Eros (Dec 5, 2021)

DemonDragonJ said:


> It seems to me that society as a whole requires a significant attitude adjustment on that subject; I cannot speak for all men, but I never say thing to, or even interact with, random women as I am walking down the street or driving my car. I do wish to be able to compliment a woman's appearance without being punished, but I usually do that only situations where doing so is to be expected, such as being on a date with a woman.
> 
> 
> 
> No, I definitely agree with you about that, although I hope that there shall still be ways for men to express their attraction to women that are socially acceptable.


There are better and more subtle ways to express sexual attraction, ones that don't make women think you're a pervert.

Reactions: Useful 1


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Dec 5, 2021)

A lot of sex pests in here getting outed.

Reactions: Funny 3 | Winner 2


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## Orochibuto (Dec 5, 2021)

I despise catcalling and never engage in it. Not because I think it is disrespecting to women, but because I think it is insulting to myself.


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## Eros (Dec 5, 2021)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> A lot of sex pests in here getting outed.


They don't even understand what's wrong with the behavior. That's creepy as hell.


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## Orochibuto (Dec 5, 2021)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Slander
> Libel
> Yelling fire in theaters
> inciting a riot
> ...



Just because some people that push for free speech have hidden agendas to put limits on speech, doesnt mean there arent free speech people that geniunely believe in it, I am one of them or at least try to be.

I hate when the progressive crowds push for "CuNTsEQuEnCeS" on speech and also when cuckservatives do it too.


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## Mider T (Dec 5, 2021)

Boooooooorrrrrrrriiiiiinnnnnggggg


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## Orochibuto (Dec 5, 2021)

Shinra Kusakabe said:


> They don't even understand what's wrong with the behavior. That's creepy as hell.



You can consider something to be wrong, even abhorrent and also consider it should not be criminalized, these are not exclusionary concepts.


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## Xelioszzapporro (Dec 5, 2021)

A completely pointless process. They clearly show how oversensitive and depressed those females are. 
Of course , I can agree that the act of cat calling is also pointless since there is no need to give stupid compliments to hot females in public or even talk them in the first place. So yeah I have no clue why males do that.

But to get offended by catcalling? Means that there is something wrong in the head that they really need to check. Because it's just someone talking to you. Just a living being with flesh and bones that uses air from his mouth to create words , which have a meaning of communication. 
And those words offend you? That's pretty cringe..........Be more stoic. It's the same way , if someone insults you with words. There is no meaning to what he says. And if you get offended by words means that you care about what he said + that you lack confidence.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1 | Dislike 1


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Dec 5, 2021)

Shinra Kusakabe said:


> They don't even understand what's wrong with the behavior. That's creepy as hell.


I think they get that it is wrong, but the issue is that they're so worried that they're going to be falsely accused of something or that women are going to take advantage of it somehow. 

Like, I agree this law is unwieldy and unenforceable, but you can tell just by how butt hurt men get when people talk about how rough it is for people to harass you while you're walking around minding your business. This is the same discussion that we had here a few years back when talking about people who were trying to talk to women on the public transport and in coffee shops and restaurants when the women were reading and listening to music. 

So many of the guys in that thread acted like they were owed the right to pester people for just daring to be in public. And even though I am a guy myself I fucking hate people trying to talk to me in public for any reason that isn't an emergency. They acted like it was going to be the downfall of society if they couldn't fucking bother others.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Eros (Dec 5, 2021)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Like, I agree this law is unwieldy and unenforceable, but you can tell just by how butt hurt men get when people talk about how rough it is for people to harass you while you're walking around minding your business. This is the same discussion that we had here a few years back when talking about people who were trying to talk to women on the public transport and in coffee shops and restaurants when the women were reading and listening to music.


I have know doubt at all that men have seen women walking down the street and taken it to the point of overtly stating a desire to have sex with them. It's a daily hassle women deal with in their daily lives, and they don't like it. It's cringeworthy.


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## Parallax (Dec 5, 2021)

Shocking that the men have an issue with making cat calling a crime

Reactions: Funny 2 | Winner 2


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## dergeist (Dec 6, 2021)

Orochibuto said:


> Repressive lawmaking 101: use moral outrage and serious crimes to create new crimes limiting rights, like speech.



Yep, we are becoming more and more authroitarian like the continental countries  

Parliament should be working on reducing laws, not increasing them. And they should punish the Popo, not the average person.


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## Orochibuto (Dec 6, 2021)

dergeist said:


> Yep, we are becoming more and more authroitarian like the continental countries
> 
> Parliament should be working on reducing laws, not increasing them. And they should punish the Popo, not the average person.



The UK has been authoritarian since a lot of time. You have no constitution, no judicial review on laws, Parliament can do literally anything, there is no law Parliament cant enact.

UK entered into hard authoritarianism with the Investigatory Powers Act.


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## Yuji (Dec 6, 2021)

So to be clear, is catcalling men still legal?

Reactions: Funny 1


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## dergeist (Dec 6, 2021)

Orochibuto said:


> The UK has been authoritarian since a lot of time. You have no constitution, no judicial review on laws, Parliament can do literally anything, there is no law Parliament cant enact.
> 
> UK entered into hard authoritarianism with the Investigatory Powers Act.



That is true and by design (lack of constitution and enacting of laws etc)
They don't want their hands tied when they want to do something and they don't want to be held accountable. However, they have been relaxed with many laws until the last decade or two. Heck, now they want to introduce a bill and strip citizenship without due process or warning.

It is (to check government) why I've always advocated for a constitution and still do.


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## stream (Dec 6, 2021)

I forgot an important point: this is England, where people generally avoid looking at each other; smiling at a woman is insulting; and talking to somebody you have not been formally presented to is _most severely frown upon_.


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## Oddjutsu (Dec 6, 2021)

Okay but how are you going to know how nice your tits are now?

Reactions: Funny 3


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## Dragon D. Luffy (Dec 6, 2021)

Orochibuto said:


> Just because some people that push for free speech have hidden agendas to put limits on speech, doesnt mean there arent free speech people that geniunely believe in it, I am one of them or at least try to be.
> 
> I hate when the progressive crowds push for "CuNTsEQuEnCeS" on speech and also when cuckservatives do it too.



I'm curious, do you think the five things CTK mentioned in his post (like yelling fire at theathers) should be legal too?


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## dergeist (Dec 6, 2021)

Oddjutsu said:


> Okay but how are you going to know how nice your tits are now?



It's a stupid law that is open to abuse and will waste police time. Instead of question why a police officer accused multiple times of harassment was never investigated (the police are above reproach), they're making a generic law for the people. How about make stricter ones for the popo, so they're treated like everyone else and scrutinised a lot more.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## creyzi4zb12 (Dec 6, 2021)

Orochibuto said:


> My problem is getting the state involved in this, if I catcall a woman and she replies with a barrage of insults and humilliation, it is completely within her speech rights.
> 
> In fact, it is within her rights even if I dont mess with her.
> 
> ...


Not if she calls the catcaller the N word


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## GRIMMM (Dec 6, 2021)

Dont harass women. Problem solved.

Reactions: Agree 5 | Optimistic 1


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## Velocity (Dec 6, 2021)

DemonDragonJ said:


> I did see that it is in the United Kingdom, but the UK is, as far as I am aware, a democratic nation, with the royal family being mostly figureheads at this point, so I thought that freedom of speech would be important to them, as well.


Freedom of speech is one thing. Harassing women is another. If you really can't get through the day without belittling random strangers just trying to go about their day, then I hope this does get you in trouble.

Laws exist because people can't be trusted to do the right thing without being punished for doing the wrong thing. This seems pretty reasonable.

Reactions: Useful 1


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## blk (Dec 6, 2021)

Orochibuto said:


> My problem is getting the state involved in this, if I catcall a woman and she replies with a barrage of insults and humilliation, it is completely within her speech rights.



Almost never gonna happen. 

A woman being cat called is more likely to be scared then respond aggressively to one or more men. 

As she doesn't know what their reactions would be to her becoming aggressive, and in a worst case scenario can be rape/physical abuse (getting beat up etc). 


This idealized myth of free speech where all kinds of humiliations and psychological abuses should be allowed because "y-you can just insult them back!" never had any basis in reality. 

And the fact these kinds of laws are being proposed is in itself evidence of that. 



That said i wouldn't punish cat-callers with anything more than a fine. 
More than that would be excessive.

Reactions: Agree 2 | Winner 1


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## Kisame3rd14 (Dec 6, 2021)

So it’s illegal to bag a bitch in public? Lol.

Reactions: Funny 3 | Old 1


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## Subarashii (Dec 6, 2021)

Free guns for all women. That should stop cat calling, right?



ClandestineSchemer said:


> Like you could possibly enforce this.


People record everything these days.


Orochibuto said:


> Oh you can, its easy. Just strip men of their right to be presumed innocent, elevate women to superior citizenship by making their word count as proof when accusing of this, while makimg men's word of denial to have less weight than the accusation, easy.


Can't wait to step on your balls in the monthly Step On Men's Balls meetings that will definitely arise from this


Gin said:


> has the woman on the right srsly been cat called

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 2 | Winner 1


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## Kisame3rd14 (Dec 6, 2021)

Subarashii said:


> Free guns for all women. That should stop cat calling, right?


No because oftentimes women are interested in social interaction. It’s people on the internet who are afraid to ask for people’s numbers in real life. That doesn’t mean keep talking to the woman after she says she’s not interested, it just means strangers are allowed to speak to one another in public.

Reactions: Old 1


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## Gin (Dec 6, 2021)

Subarashii said:


>

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Nemesis (Dec 6, 2021)

Kisame3rd14 said:


> No because oftentimes women are interested in social interaction. It’s people on the internet who are afraid to ask for people’s numbers in real life. That doesn’t mean keep talking to the woman after she says she’s not interested, it just means strangers are allowed to speak to one another in public.



you know literally nothing about women.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2 | Funny 3 | Winner 2


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## reiatsuflow (Dec 6, 2021)

Yeah kisame's right, there are lots of people who confuse their inhibitions with being nice, civil, deferential, whatever, but it's not. It's just inhibition. I get into this with the "nice guy" syndrome too where someone whose inhibited in public settings thinks that means they're nice.

Threatening people is not okay and you can already tell police or security if people are threatening you, but there are all sorts of uninhibited expressions people do in public that don't pass the bar for bothering law enforcement. If an employee at a store bothers you or catcalls you, you can probably already get them in trouble talking to their manager. We already have plenty of guardrails for this kind of behavior in society.

The UK is just being the UK.

Reactions: Winner 1 | Optimistic 1


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## Magic (Dec 6, 2021)

Kisame3rd14 said:


> So it’s illegal to bag a bitch in public? Lol.


Yo Language, chill.


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## reiatsuflow (Dec 6, 2021)

*I suppose this might be some out of control problem in the UK like when some high crime cities in the US try broken window type hardlines, but I'm _guessing_ no and I've never been wrong before.


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## Yuji (Dec 6, 2021)

reiatsuflow said:


> *I suppose this might be some out of control problem in the UK like when some high crime cities in the US try broken window type hardlines, but I'm _guessing_ no and I've never been wrong before.



It isn't, all it would achieve is making women a protected citizen class who have the right not to be offended.


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## reiatsuflow (Dec 6, 2021)

I mean as a guy who bikes a lot we don't even have laws against rolling coal at cyclists in most states and that's sort of a ruder vehicular catcall.



then again I'm in america and that's probably illegal in europe. In some european countries it's even illegal to tinker with your vehicle in order to be able to roll coal in the first place, so we definitely have different cultures on different sides of the pond.

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Death Certificate (Dec 6, 2021)

reiatsuflow said:


> Threatening people is not okay and you can already tell police or security if people are threatening you


At least try to read the OP

_Public sexual harassment, such as cat-calling and making sexually explicit comments, to be made an offence in wake of Sarah Everard murder_

You know the case where a (white) woman was raped and murdered by an off duty cop who had a long history of sexually harassing women within his own department and outside work. His nickname was rapist among fellow officers meaning there is still a high number of cops that engage or allow sexual harassment.

Most people were worried that the Government wasn't going to do anything because all mainstream political parties in England are pro-cop and hardly gave a response that warranted any type of trust.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Yuji (Dec 6, 2021)

Because as we all know, rape/murder = catcalling

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Mider T (Dec 6, 2021)

stream said:


> I forgot an important point: this is England, where people generally avoid looking at each other; smiling at a woman is insulting; and talking to somebody you have not been formally presented to is _most severely frown upon_.


Sounds like Sweden to me.


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## Alwaysmind (Dec 6, 2021)

DemonDragonJ said:


> I agree with this, because, while I agree that men should stop displaying such behavior, making such behavior punishable by law sounds dangerously close to violating freedom of speech, which is one of the most important aspects of any democratic society.


Whistling at a woman in the street isn't speech, it's an onomatopoeia. 

Founding fathers, father of confederations and parliaments around the world did not include freedom of speech to allow men to whistle women in the streets.


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## Alwaysmind (Dec 6, 2021)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Slander
> Libel

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Kisame3rd14 (Dec 6, 2021)

Nemesis said:


> you know literally nothing about women.


I’m engaged to one, how about you?

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Kisame3rd14 (Dec 6, 2021)

reiatsuflow said:


> Yeah kisame's right, there are lots of people who confuse their inhibitions with being nice, civil, deferential, whatever, but it's not. It's just inhibition. I get into this with the "nice guy" syndrome too where someone whose inhibited in public settings thinks that means they're nice.
> 
> Threatening people is not okay and you can already tell police or security if people are threatening you, but there are all sorts of uninhibited expressions people do in public that don't pass the bar for bothering law enforcement. If an employee at a store bothers you or catcalls you, you can probably already get them in trouble talking to their manager. We already have plenty of guardrails for this kind of behavior in society.
> 
> The UK is just being the UK.


Exactly. It’s very easy for most women to say no, I’ve had my woman catcalled in front of me and my sisters catcalled in front of me.With most rational human beings it stops at that.

Reactions: Old 1


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## Subarashii (Dec 6, 2021)

Kisame3rd14 said:


> Exactly. It’s very easy for most women to say no, I’ve had my woman catcalled in front of me and my sisters catcalled in front of me.With most rational human beings it stops at that.


Yes, *most. *But it didn't stop for Sarah Evevard.  So if making it illegal (the enforceability is dubious, since it was a cop who raped and murdered her) makes women feel a little safer, then it's a good thing.


Gin said:


>


i DoNt FiNd HeR aTtRaCtIvE sO nO oNe ElSe DoEs EiThEr
Bro, I have walked around downtown in a Samus Aran bodysuit and didn't get catcalled, but I go for a run looking like a fkn hobo in a gray hoodie and sweats and suddenly every man has a boner he wants to tell me about.


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## Subarashii (Dec 6, 2021)

@Kisame3rd14 @reiatsuflow @Yuji @stream 
Do you guys cat call women?


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## reiatsuflow (Dec 6, 2021)

Subarashii said:


> @Kisame3rd14 @reiatsuflow @Yuji @stream
> Do you guys cat call women?



Absolutely not. Stranger danger.


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## reiatsuflow (Dec 6, 2021)

I'm a grown adult and I don't even approach strange women out and about. I'm friendly though and will move in if I get an excuse to, I just don't engage with strangers if I'm not getting any prompt to. I'm like a vampire. You have to invite me in.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


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## Gin (Dec 6, 2021)

Subarashii said:


> i DoNt FiNd HeR aTtRaCtIvE sO nO oNe ElSe DoEs EiThEr
> Bro, I have walked around downtown in a Samus Aran bodysuit and didn't get catcalled, but I go for a run looking like a fkn hobo in a gray hoodie and sweats and suddenly every man has a boner he wants to tell me about.


why take it so personally tho


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## Parallax (Dec 6, 2021)

Because shes a woman in a thread where all the men are bitching about this law would be my wager

Reactions: Agree 2 | Funny 1 | Winner 3


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## Subarashii (Dec 6, 2021)

Gin said:


> why take it so personally tho


In a thread about a woman who was raped and murdered by a cop and there's a proposed law change because of it?

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Yuji (Dec 6, 2021)

Subarashii said:


> In a thread about a woman who was raped and murdered by a cop and there's a proposed law change because of it?



Did the cop catcall her before he raped her or something? Or is that just your poor attempt at a logical inference?

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Subarashii (Dec 6, 2021)

Yuji said:


> Did the cop catcall her before he raped her or something? Or is that just your poor attempt at a logical inference?


Read the article


> In the wake of Miss Everard's killing, ministers said they would consider if there should be a  that would criminalise explicit sexual and abusive behaviour or comments made in public.


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## Gin (Dec 6, 2021)

Parallax said:


> Because shes a woman in a thread where all the men are bitching about this law would be my wager


i'm actually not one of them tho, i just expressed mild disbelief at one of the women at the front of the pic being catcalled


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## Subarashii (Dec 6, 2021)

Gin said:


> i'm actually not one of them tho, i just expressed mild disbelief at one of the women at the front of the pic being catcalled


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## Gin (Dec 6, 2021)

no i'm sorry this is extemely serious you can't just keep responding with funny videos smh

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Subarashii (Dec 6, 2021)

Gin said:


> no i'm sorry this is extemely serious you can't just keep responding with funny videos smh


Then don't act like a clown  
Coming into a thread about a possible law in response to a woman being raped and murdered and you comment on a woman's attractiveness?


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## Gin (Dec 6, 2021)

Subarashii said:


> Then don't act like a clown
> Coming into a thread about a possible law in response to a woman being raped and murdered and you comment on a woman's attractiveness?


how dare i

on the _internet_ no less

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Yuji (Dec 6, 2021)

Subarashii said:


> Read the article



So *no *is your answer to my question. You don't really have an argument then.


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## Subarashii (Dec 6, 2021)

Yuji said:


> So *no *is your answer to my question. You don't really have an argument then.


If you missed the quote from the article: In the wake of Miss Everard's killing, ministers said they would consider if there should be a  that would criminalise explicit sexual and abusive behaviour or comments made in public.

So, no, I'm not doing any inferring, I'm reading the article and telling you what the law was based on.


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## Gin (Dec 6, 2021)

like, if i'd commented on the murder victim that would've been shitty and insensitive but just some random ass woman in the article photo in a thread about catcalling?

nah, you're overreacting


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Dec 6, 2021)

Yuji said:


> So *no *is your answer to my question. You don't really have an argument then.


So you can’t read somehow?

Reactions: Funny 2


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## GRIMMM (Dec 6, 2021)

Looks like the Café has a whole lotta posters self-reporting.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## afg (Dec 6, 2021)

Nooooo we’re not allowed to sexually harass women anymore? What will we do? This is literally 1984!

Some of these mfs will sooner see a law dictating how a women dresses than a law telling men to keep it moving.

Reactions: Winner 5 | Old 2


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## Xelioszzapporro (Dec 6, 2021)

afg said:


> Nooooo we’re not allowed to sexually harass women anymore? What will we do? This is literally 1984!
> 
> Some of these mfs will sooner see a law dictating how a women dresses than a law telling men to keep it moving.



''Literally 1984''? That's very old and not really gold!!


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## Gin (Dec 6, 2021)

Xelioszzapporro said:


> ''Literally 1984''? That's very old and not really gold!!


“no catcalling?

what’s next, no stalking?!”

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Kisame3rd14 (Dec 6, 2021)

Subarashii said:


> @Kisame3rd14 @reiatsuflow @Yuji @stream
> Do you guys cat call women?


I don’t need to now but I have in my past.

Reactions: Old 1


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## creyzi4zb12 (Dec 6, 2021)

I think people are forgetting something about the Sarah Everard murder. 
It arose from the issue of arresting people who were not wearing masks during pandemic. So she gets falsely arrested for not wearing a mask, and raped and killed after.

So I guess the issue here is not catcalling, but liberals over-ridiculing people who do not wear masks to the point where it’s now okay for them to be raped…because, hey, they did not wear a mask!

Reactions: Winner 1 | Dislike 1


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## Orochibuto (Dec 6, 2021)

Subarashii said:


> Yes, *most. *But it didn't stop for Sarah Evevard.  So if making it illegal (the enforceability is dubious, since it was a cop who raped and murdered her) makes women *feel* a little safer, then it's a good thing.



Criminal laws should be based on objective facts, not feelings.

Reactions: Winner 2


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## creyzi4zb12 (Dec 6, 2021)

She wasn’t pestered for being a woman. She was pestered for not wearing a mask. Somehow, the democratic party has done it again. Which is convince the world the root cause of something is something else entirely unrelated to it.

meanwhile the root cause of the problem still exists. Which is the abuse of police who arrest of women who do not wear mask.

Reactions: Winner 1 | Disagree 1


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## reiatsuflow (Dec 6, 2021)

Well then we need to criminalize bothering people for not wearing masks and if you disagree with that it means you support rape.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## GRIMMM (Dec 6, 2021)

Orochibuto said:


> Criminal laws should be based on objective facts, not feelings.


The objective facts are that 4 in 5 women in the UK are sexually harrassed in public places.

This is an issue that needs addressed.


creyzi4zb12 said:


> She wasn’t pestered for being a woman. She was pestered for not wearing a mask. Somehow, the *democratic party has done it again*. Which is convince the world the root cause of something is something else entirely unrelated to it.


You didn't even read the article.


reiatsuflow said:


> Well then we need to criminalize bothering people for not wearing masks and if you disagree with that it means you support rape.


Tell me again how many hogs post videos online harrassing people who wear masks?

Reactions: Agree 3


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## reiatsuflow (Dec 6, 2021)

GRIMMM said:


> Tell me again how many hogs post videos online harrassing people who wear masks?



@wibisana I know pigs can play videogames but is it true they can post videos online too


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## Kitsune (Dec 6, 2021)

Gin said:


> has the woman on the right srsly been cat called



What you and other guys in this thread are missing is that catcalling isn’t really about paying a woman a compliment. It’s about harassing/bothering/pestering her and making her feel uncomfortable. It’s a weird form of asserting male dominance and control. So yes, for that reason it happens to every woman regardless of her looks.

Reactions: Agree 2 | Winner 3


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## reiatsuflow (Dec 6, 2021)

"We have been tolerating a culture of harassment, sexism and abuse in the police force for too long, the murderer has a long history of falsely stopping women to harass them and we have a rotted law enforcement culture that enables these offenders, we will no longer condone this behavior and therefore effective immediately cops can now arrest citizens for catcalling."

It's also weird because ostensibly this should have resulted in reforms around police culture and law enforcement behavior but instead it created another reason f_or cops to be able to arrest you _and the anti-cop / cop suspicious posters are cheering it on. Like, what.

The cherry on top is that many of the activists who showed up for the vigil of Everard were arrested themselves for violating the covid act of 2020.

what is you guys doing


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## Gin (Dec 6, 2021)

Kitsune said:


> What you and other guys in this thread are missing is that catcalling isn’t really about paying a woman a compliment. It’s about harassing/bothering/pestering her and making her feel uncomfortable. It’s a weird form of asserting male dominance and control. So yes, for that reason it happens to every woman regardless of her looks.


i know it's not a compliment, but i felt that yes it was preceded by a man finding a woman physically attractive, just expressing that attraction in an unwanted and demeaning way


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## Gin (Dec 6, 2021)

also i love how ppl are straight up ridiculing the idea of catcalling being harassment but i'm the one getting jumped


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## reiatsuflow (Dec 6, 2021)

wow wow wow wait

Did a _woman_ just speak on why _men_ catcall?


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## Corvida (Dec 6, 2021)

Kitsune said:


> What you and other guys in this thread are missing is that catcalling isn’t really about paying a woman a compliment. It’s about harassing/bothering/pestering her and making her feel uncomfortable. It’s a weird form of asserting male dominance and control. So yes, for that reason it happens to every woman regardless of her looks.


In Andalusia there was a big fuss like 3 years ago when the Junta started a campaign describing the urban fauna

the owl-stares constantly
the vulture-always hovering
the pig-shouting obscenities
the rooster-crowing at a distance
the sparrow-wishtling and whistling
the octopus-groping and enjoying it

Reactions: Funny 1 | Friendly 1


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## Gin (Dec 6, 2021)

Corvida said:


> In Andalusia there was a big fuss like 3 years ago when the Junta started a campaign describing the urban fauna
> 
> the owl-stares constantly
> the vulture-always hovering
> ...


@Xelioszzapporro would you describe yourself as more of an owl or a vulture


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## Kitsune (Dec 6, 2021)

Gin said:


> also i love how ppl are straight up ridiculing the idea of catcalling being harassment but i'm the one getting jumped



Discounting a woman’s experience with sexual harassment based on her looks is a Trump-tier thing to do.


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## Takahashi (Dec 6, 2021)

This won't really matter much in terms of enforcement, but it's still a good standard to set.  My wife has to deal with this shit all the time, and it ranges from creepy to straight-up bizarre.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Gin (Dec 6, 2021)

Kitsune said:


> Discounting a woman’s experience with sexual harassment based on her looks is a Trump-tier thing to do.


ok


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## reiatsuflow (Dec 6, 2021)

I want to defend gin but I've been where he is plenty of times myself so I'm getting some catharsis here just watching the poor bastard twisting in the wind.


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## Xelioszzapporro (Dec 6, 2021)

Gin said:


> @Xelioszzapporro would you describe yourself as more of an owl or a vulture



65% Owl
30% Vulture
5% Octopus

0% of Sparrow , Rooster and Pig.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## creyzi4zb12 (Dec 6, 2021)

GRIMMM said:


> You didn't even read the article.


She was falsely arrested for breaking lockdown restrictions. The fact that she just got out of her friends house for a visit makes her more susceptible to the guy’s trap.


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## Kitsune (Dec 6, 2021)

reiatsuflow said:


> I want to defend gin but I've been where he is plenty of times myself so I'm getting some catharsis here just watching the poor bastard twisting in the wind.



In his defense, he’s a decent person who probably can’t fathom the mindset of someone who would harass a woman just for a sense of control.

I’m just pointing out that sexual harassment ranging from mild to severe isn’t always about looks. People get raped in nursing homes ffs.

Reactions: Winner 1 | Friendly 2


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## Eros (Dec 6, 2021)

Kitsune said:


> In his defense, he’s a decent person who probably can’t fathom the mindset of someone who would harass a woman just for a sense of control.
> 
> I’m just pointing out that sexual harassment ranging from mild to severe isn’t always about looks. People get raped in nursing homes ffs.


People who do shit like that are really ate up.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Death Certificate (Dec 6, 2021)

Kisame3rd14 said:


> I’m engaged to one, how about you?



Great for you but that doesn't make you knowledgeable about women in general. There are lots of men who are married while being misogynists



creyzi4zb12 said:


> I think people are forgetting something about the Sarah Everard murder.
> It arose from the issue of arresting people who were not wearing masks during pandemic. So she gets falsely arrested for not wearing a mask, and raped and killed after.
> 
> So I guess the issue here is not catcalling, but liberals over-ridiculing people who do not wear masks to the point where it’s now okay for them to be raped…because, hey, they did not wear a mask!



Yes Wayne used Covid laws to his advantage but that doesn't take away from the fact he's a rotten pile of shit

Why was Wayne Couzens known as ‘the rapist’? Origins of nickname of Sarah Everard’s killer explained​
He was reportedly nicknamed ‘The Rapist’ by his colleagues as he made women feel uncomfortable



> Why was Wayne Couzens nicknamed ‘The Rapist’?​He was reportedly nicknamed “The Rapist” by his colleagues as he made women feel uncomfortable.
> 
> He was reportedly given the monicker by colleagues at the Civil Nuclear Constabulary – his job prior to the Metropolitan Police – because he made female colleagues feel uncomfortable.
> 
> ...


Now stop trying to twist this into some bullshit anti-vax nonsense

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1


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## reiatsuflow (Dec 6, 2021)

Shinra Kusakabe said:


> People who do shit like that are really ate up.



please no more fat jokes


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## Eros (Dec 6, 2021)

reiatsuflow said:


> please no more fat jokes


That's not a fat joke.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Kisame3rd14 (Dec 6, 2021)

Death Certificate said:


> Great for you but that doesn't make you knowledgeable about women in general. There are lots of men who are married while being misogynists


I didn’t ask that, I’m questioning the background knowledge of the person who responded to me.


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## Oddjutsu (Dec 6, 2021)

Pig did a rape and murder, the other piggies saw it coming.  

Putting 2 and 2 together = cops get more power


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## Solar (Dec 6, 2021)

Gin said:


> has the woman on the right srsly been cat called


She might be there to support her friend on the left. It's tough to tell with the masks if they're ovary-acting or not.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Orochibuto (Dec 6, 2021)

Let's assume that I agree that "WaRdZ MuSt HaH CuNtSeQuEnCeS!"

This law has many issues even if you ignore the free speech issue. Some of them even worse than the speech thing.

*Issue 1, enforceability:*

How is this law going to be enforced? Because I only see 3 options:

1) This law is unenforceable

2) This law automatically gives women's word more value than men's, meaning that all it takes to be guilty under this law is for a woman to accuse you

3) Recording will be necessary. This could work, I guess, I don't know how much of English is covered by CCTV though. And even if phone recording + CCTV largely can cover this, there are still problems with that. What if there is a recording of a guy talking but it isn't clear what he said? Will the woman just be believed over him?

*Issue 2, crime definition:*

How are you going to define "pestering and catcalling"? Is whistling in the presence of a woman enough? Does it have to be outright gross and sexual catcalls? Will merely approaching a woman be a crime? Will politely telling approaching a woman to see if she wants to meet later? Will simply saying "hi" on the street count? Seriously, what will it be?

*Issue 3, Equality under the law aka GROSS violation of human rights*

And now we get to the pink elephant in the room. Is this law going to be egalitarian? Is this going to apply to all citizens? The information in the article seems to point out it will not be:



> or in pubs and making lewd comments at them could become an offence under plans to criminalise “public sexual harassment”, which are set to be announced next week.
> 
> A government-commissioned review of hate crimes will call for public sexual harassment and inciting hatred against women to be  as part of an overhaul of laws to protect women and girls against violence.



So apparently pestering women in the street or pubs with words and inciting hatred against women will be made criminal offences, but pestering men on the street or pubs with words and inciting hatred against men will be completely legal?

Because if this is true, this goes way beyond a free speech issue even if you agree that "WaRdZ NeEd To FaCe CuNtSeQuEnCeS!" and it creates a situation where the same situation is not punished when done to men but punished when done to women. Also, what if a women "pesters" another woman? Will that be a crime too or will it only be a crime if a man does it? This would be a GROSS violation of human rights and I can't see how anyone reasonable here would agree.

This is not an exaggeration, it would per law, grant women more rights than men, it would make women in the UK first class citizens and men second class citizens.

Reactions: Winner 3 | Dislike 5


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Dec 6, 2021)

"It would grant X more rights than me" is a classic bullshit argument. I've already explained why the vast majority of men don't have to worry about this issue.

Reactions: Agree 3 | Funny 2 | Winner 2


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## Amol (Dec 6, 2021)

Orochibuto talks in classic case of men believing themselves as the real victim.

The argument looking for nonsensical imaginary extreme case just to make this whole thing ridiculous is ridiculous itself.

Obviously saying Hi is not cat calling. Like how do you reach to that stupid level of argument?
That is defination of trying too hard to appease your victim mentality.


Catcalling is not paying compliments to women. It is talking with sexual innuendo to the level of harassment.
Telling completely random woman in street that she has a fine ass and you would like to go town on her is not complementing her. That is clearly harassment. This law aims to rectify that.

If this law make someone here uncomfortable, it honestly speaks more about their twisted character. Maybe this person should try to stop being a pig. He then won't have anything to worry about.

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 1 | Winner 1


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## Orochibuto (Dec 7, 2021)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> "It would grant X more rights than me" is a classic bullshit argument. I've already explained why the vast majority of men don't have to worry about this issue.



Doesn't make the argument less true, what I said is objectively true, not even arguably true, it is an objective fact. If you make crimes that can only be commited by men to woman but not by women to men, that is, that women are free to engage in the same conduct men are punished for and not get punished just because they were born the right sex. Guess what? It is objectively giving more rights to women than men, or less right to men than women. This is an objective fact.

Percentages on how women will behave on average and how men will behave on average does not chance this fact, it still universally exists and applied to all men and women, regardless if women decide to engage in the conduct or not. The bullshit argument is the classic "well, but only 1% of women would do it, so it is not true".  Yes, it is true, it is irrelevant if 99% of men would engage in such behavior and only 1% of women, it is still a discriminatory law, unless it is applied equally.

Note, this is an argument separate from how bullshit this law would be if no evidence but the word of the woman is required. This is not about if men have to worry about this or not, this is about the objective fact that if this law is not applied equally and crimes can only be done from men to women, it is objectively granting women more rights than men.

Reactions: Dislike 2


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## creyzi4zb12 (Dec 7, 2021)

Death Certificate said:


> Great for you but that doesn't make you knowledgeable about women in general. There are lots of men who are married while being misogynists
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It’s not anti-vax. It’s about overblowing reactions and ridiculing people who break restrictions.

It’s an entirely different thing.

Couzens strikes me as the kinda guy/girl you see on the train who video records somebody who has their mask down, and goes to twitter to say “let’s make her famous for breaking covid protocols”
This looks like an extreme case of that.

Because I’m pretty sure you hatemongers are saying in your little heads right now, that there is something…something…just a little bit of victim blaming from you people. That if only she did not break protocols, this would not have happened to her. Because way to go in blaming the victim.

Reactions: Dislike 3


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## Death Certificate (Dec 7, 2021)

creyzi4zb12 said:


> It’s not anti-vax. It’s about overblowing reactions and ridiculing people who break restrictions.
> 
> It’s an entirely different thing.


>It's not anti-vax
[Proceeds to use anti-vax talking points]



creyzi4zb12 said:


> Couzens strikes me as the kinda guy/girl you see on the train who video records somebody who has their mask down, and goes to twitter to say “let’s make her famous for breaking covid protocols”
> This looks like an extreme case of that.


The guy has a history of being a sexual harasser and being nicknamed "rapist" clearly care about Twitter clout, even if that would expose his creepy history




creyzi4zb12 said:


> Because I’m pretty sure you hatemongers are saying in your little heads right now, that there is something…something…just a little bit of victim blaming from you people. That if only she did not break protocols, this would not have happened to her. Because way to go in blaming the victim.


I have read this 3 times and I still have no idea what the fuck you are talking about. To be honest I don't care because you are just chatting irrelevant shit.


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## creyzi4zb12 (Dec 7, 2021)

Death Certificate said:


> >It's not anti-vax
> [Proceeds to use anti-vax talking points]
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah, because you are overblowing similarities with the comparison of taking the vaccine, curfew and wearing a mask. 

They have similarities, but they are different factors of covid prevention. And you’re making them the same to prove a point.

one involves getting a vaccine
the other involves wearing a mask
the other involves not going out on curfew


Know the differences now?


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## creyzi4zb12 (Dec 7, 2021)

Death Certificate said:


> I have read this 3 times and I still have no idea what the fuck you are talking about. To be honest I don't care because you are just chatting irrelevant shit.


Simple question. Do you, or do you not approve that people should be handcuffed and arrested for breaking covid related curfew?


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## Deer Lord (Dec 7, 2021)

In the not too distant future, breathing would be punishable by law.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Dec 7, 2021)

Deer Lord said:


> In the not too distant future, breathing would be punishable by law.


Careful around that slippery slope. Wouldn't want you to take a tumble.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Deer Lord (Dec 7, 2021)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Careful around that slippery slope. Wouldn't want you to take a tumble.


You don't have to worry about me I'm not even into women.


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## Velocity (Dec 7, 2021)

Kisame3rd14 said:


> So it’s illegal to bag a bitch in public? Lol.


If your idea of respecting women is to say "bag a bitch" then maybe this law is perfect for protecting any from you.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Gledania (Dec 7, 2021)

@Flame don't take this as an open door to go in US in order to catcall men


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Dec 7, 2021)

Deer Lord said:


> You don't have to worry about me I'm not even into women.


Let me guess, deer? 

Not sure what this has to do with the slippery slope argument thing, but good for y'all I guess.


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## Gin (Dec 7, 2021)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Let me guess, deer?
> 
> Not sure what this has to do with the slippery slope argument thing, but good for y'all I guess.


deer have pretty good traction


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Dec 7, 2021)

Gin said:


> deer have pretty good traction


Are you trying to insinuate that when you hump a deer it won't slide forward or get bumped out of place?


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## Gin (Dec 7, 2021)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Are you trying to insinuate that when you hump a deer it won't slide forward or get bumped out of place?


I was actually commenting on their ability to deal with slippery slopes 

but that too

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Subarashii (Dec 7, 2021)

creyzi4zb12 said:


> She wasn’t pestered for being a woman. She was pestered for not wearing a mask. Somehow, the democratic party has done it again. Which is convince the world the root cause of something is something else entirely unrelated to it.
> 
> meanwhile the root cause of the problem still exists. Which is the abuse of police who arrest of women who do not wear mask.


CCTV footage of her the day she was abducted, so wtf are you talking about?

Reactions: Agree 1 | Disagree 1


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## Subarashii (Dec 7, 2021)

Kisame3rd14 said:


> I don’t need to now but I have in my past.


Damn, I feel bad for you "fiance", please treat her better than you act on here

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Magic (Dec 7, 2021)

reiatsuflow said:


> I mean as a guy who bikes a lot we don't even have laws against rolling coal at cyclists in most states and that's sort of a ruder vehicular catcall.
> 
> 
> 
> then again I'm in america and that's probably illegal in europe. In some european countries it's even illegal to tinker with your vehicle in order to be able to roll coal in the first place, so we definitely have different cultures on different sides of the pond.


What da hell lol

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Subarashii (Dec 7, 2021)

RemChu said:


> What da hell lol


He lives in a place with, I'm assuming, a lot of truck nuts


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## GRIMMM (Dec 7, 2021)

Subarashii said:


> CCTV footage of her the day she was abducted, so wtf are you talking about?


He doesn't realise the police kidnapped and murdered her after falsely accusing her of breaking the Covid-19 lockdown rules. It had nothing to do with her wearing a mask or not, he simply used that as a way to get her in cuffs and in the car.

This retard thinks this is some gotcha against mask rules. I can only imagine what it is like to be this dumb.

Reactions: Winner 4


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## Subarashii (Dec 7, 2021)

GRIMMM said:


> He doesn't realise the police kidnapped and murdered her after falsely accusing her of breaking the Covid-19 lockdown rules. It had nothing to do with her wearing a mask or not, he simply used that as a way to get her in cuffs and in the car.
> 
> This retard thinks this is some gotcha against mask rules. I can only imagine what it is like to be this dumb.


If he believes the words of murderous rapist, I've got some magic beans to sell him!


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## Unicornsilovethem (Dec 7, 2021)

Great news. Pestering women are the worst, they should not be allowed in the streets.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## GRIMMM (Dec 7, 2021)

Unicornsilovethem said:


> Great news. Pestering women are the worst, they should not be allowed in the streets.

Reactions: Funny 6


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## Corvida (Dec 7, 2021)

FIUUUUUUUUUUUUUU

FIUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU

TETAAAAAAAAAAAAAAASSSSSSSSSSSS


MIRA PA QUÍ O

PUTAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

ASI TE LA METIA YO OYEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

ME PONES BURROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO


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## ЯƎWO⅃ᖷ (Dec 7, 2021)

Subarashii said:


> i DoNt FiNd HeR aTtRaCtIvE sO nO oNe ElSe DoEs EiThEr
> Bro, I have walked around downtown in a Samus Aran bodysuit and didn't get catcalled, but I go for a run looking like a fkn hobo in a gray hoodie and sweats and suddenly every man has a boner he wants to tell me about.



A while ago I saw a repost of a video Lizzo posted where she was dancing in lingerie on Instagram. The men in the comments were saying things like “she’s built like a fridge but the backshots would be insane”  

it really doesn’t matter what a woman looks like- the men who enjoy this type of thing will always have something vile to say. And they’re emboldened by others who think it’s funny 



creyzi4zb12 said:


> I think people are forgetting something about the Sarah Everard murder.
> It arose from the issue of arresting people who were not wearing masks during pandemic. So she gets falsely arrested for not wearing a mask, and raped and killed after.
> 
> So I guess the issue here is not catcalling, but liberals over-ridiculing people who do not wear masks to the point where it’s now okay for them to be raped…because, hey, they did not wear a mask!



Ummm....what?

How did you even get here

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Subarashii (Dec 7, 2021)

Oddjutsu said:


> Pig did a rape and murder, the other piggies saw it coming.
> 
> Putting 2 and 2 together = cops get more power



Like, it is a bit of a conundrum to be like "a cop raped and murdered a woman, we need to pass a law against that kind of things for the cops to enforce" but then what's the point of laws if nothing happens to people who don't follow them? Luckily this guy was caught, but it just highlights the evil can flourish when good people sit and do nothing.  The cops who didn't report the guy nicknamed "RAPIST" are liable for aiding and abetting. This "protect your own" culture needs to change, I know this wasn't a US case, but the freaking Golden State Killer was a that cop raped and murdered a lot more people, so it's not just a single country issue. 
It's so nebulous that it seems like something that is impossible to change.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Deer Lord (Dec 7, 2021)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Let me guess, deer?
> 
> Not sure what this has to do with the slippery slope argument thing, but good for y'all I guess.


It has to do with you not understanding sarcasm thing.


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## Death Certificate (Dec 7, 2021)

Deer Lord said:


> In the not too distant future, breathing would be punishable by law.



Yes taking away the ability to breathe is the logical step, when assessing sexual harassment and rape

Reactions: Funny 1 | Winner 1


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## Parallax (Dec 7, 2021)

Subarashii said:


> Like, it is a bit of a conundrum to be like "a cop raped and murdered a woman, we need to pass a law against that kind of things for the cops to enforce" but then what's the point of laws if nothing happens to people who don't follow them? Luckily this guy was caught, but it just highlights the evil can flourish when good people sit and do nothing.  The cops who didn't report the guy nicknamed "RAPIST" are liable for aiding and abetting. This "protect your own" culture needs to change, I know this wasn't a US case, but the freaking Golden State Killer was a that cop raped and murdered a lot more people, so it's not just a single country issue.
> It's so nebulous that it seems like something that is impossible to change.


It's not impossible to change.  One good start is all these lawsuits are paid out of a cops pension or their budget instead of using our tax dollars or ending immunity.  There are legitimate avenues for change but idiots and bad faith morons will never listen or abide by this just by seeing all the pro cop boot lickers we have here and in the real world


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## Yami Munesanzun (Dec 7, 2021)

It's weird, being dropped off at a random page in this thread, to read Gin being an annoying tool when a mere 6-ish+ months ago he deemed it acceptable to behave like a jackass just because he found me annoying.


Weird. 


Anyways, carry on.


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## reiatsuflow (Dec 7, 2021)

Poor oro.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## creyzi4zb12 (Dec 7, 2021)

So


GRIMMM said:


> He doesn't realise the police kidnapped and murdered her after falsely accusing her of breaking the Covid-19 lockdown rules. It had nothing to do with her wearing a mask or not, he simply used that as a way to get her in cuffs and in the car.
> 
> This retard thinks this is some gotcha against mask rules. I can only imagine what it is like to be this dumb


Nope. That was before she went on the streets.


She was clearly shown not wearing a mask after she went out of Sainsburry. Also, it’s not just about not wearing a mask. It’s abusing the lockdown rules to the point where it’s actually okay to handcuff somebody. Because i mean, if people keep getting ridiculed for even throwing your mask down, then it would probably be okay for them to get handcuffed like her huh?

After your pic. It’s nice that you keep editing shit to make up lies just to prove a useless point.


So you actually think that people do not need to be arrested for breaking covid lockdown rules? Yet you keep ridiculing them on social media, making them more vulnerable to predators like this creep of a cop‘S lies?


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## Gin (Dec 7, 2021)

is "who is that woman in your avatar" considered catcalling

Reactions: Funny 3


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## creyzi4zb12 (Dec 7, 2021)

Subarashii said:


> CCTV footage of her the day she was abducted, so wtf are you talking about?


So I’m guessing you never read the entire article and/or only cut out clips and bits of her wearing a mask and purposely try to hide the fact that there are parts when it was off as well?

Like when she left Saintsburry where she already has an orange shopping bag on and have her mask down?


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Dec 7, 2021)

Gin said:


> is "who is that woman in your avatar" considered catcalling


Leave that boy alone.


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## GRIMMM (Dec 7, 2021)

creyzi4zb12 said:


> So
> 
> Nope. That was before she went on the streets.
> 
> ...


This reads like a massive rambling by someone with a drug addiction. I hope you get the help you need.

Reactions: Funny 6


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Dec 7, 2021)

creyzi4zb12 said:


> So I’m guessing you never read the entire article and/or only cut out clips and bits of her wearing a mask and purposely try to hide the fact that there are parts when it was off as well?
> 
> Like when she left Saintsburry where she already has an orange shopping bag on and have her mask down?


You are still trusting the word of a cop who murdered a woman from the sound of it. Like I don't get what the fuck is wrong with you, you're acting like this thing that should have gotten her a ticket and a fine that ended up getting her 'arrested' makes any kind of sense.

Do you think if she had been a white guy doing the same shit that cop would have tried to take her in over it? Would he have even bothered her at all or was the covid restriction breaking a convenient, hard to trace crime she could be accused of for this guy to get access to her?

Because the way I see it you're in here arguing with one of the only women who comes into this fucking cesspool about whether or not it's okay to do a little light rape/murder since you've got a lady all arrested and restrained already.

There's no excuse for this shit, just fucking cut it out. You're embarrassing yourself and it's embarrassing to watch you.



reiatsuflow said:


> I mean as a guy who bikes a lot we don't even have laws against rolling coal at cyclists in most states and that's sort of a ruder vehicular catcall.
> 
> 
> 
> then again I'm in america and that's probably illegal in europe. In some european countries it's even illegal to tinker with your vehicle in order to be able to roll coal in the first place, so we definitely have different cultures on different sides of the pond.


If we make it illegal for trucks to roll coal at cyclists all people not on bikes will basically be second class citizens.


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## creyzi4zb12 (Dec 7, 2021)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> You are still trusting the word of a cop who murdered a woman from the sound of it. Like I don't get what the fuck is wrong with you, you're acting like this thing that should have gotten her a ticket and a fine that ended up getting her 'arrested' makes any kind of sense.
> 
> Do you think if she had been a white guy doing the same shit that cop would have tried to take her in over it? Would he have even bothered her at all or was the covid restriction breaking a convenient, hard to trace crime she could be accused of for this guy to get access to her?
> 
> ...



No, i am talking about actual picture evidence of her not wearing a mask and YOU trying to paint it out as me taking the word of the murderer and believing whatever he says instead. Because she did have her mask down.


And you purposely, posted a pic of events happening way before she took her mask down just to make a false accusation at me?

And no, you are purposely putting words in my mouth. I am talking about *"potential abuse of power using the covid lockdown rules"* vs *"catcalling"* as the root cause of her murder. Because you all seem to be hiding your mistakes by putting a different factor at hand on the reason why Everard came to believe the rapist cop. And social media is only making it worse. You guys are a bunch of fucking hypocrites for giving condolences to her death, when it was actually your groups' ridicules and overreactions that could have possibly made her so vulnerable to the point where she would fall into the trap of a predator.


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## Death Certificate (Dec 7, 2021)

creyzi4zb12 said:


> And no, you are purposely putting words in my mouth. I am talking about *"potential abuse of power using the covid lockdown rules"* vs *"catcalling"* as the root cause of her murder



He has a long history of sexually harassing women, failed a lot of vetting tests and indecent exposure; for fuck sake his fucking nickname is "Rapsit" among his own colleagues.  Even without covid rules Wayne would have ended raping and killing another woman under different circumstances because he's a piece of shit that would have pressured Sarah for resisting arrest.
Not to mention your main point undermines the corruption and toxic environment within MET Police by simplifying it to Covid rules. Cops like Wayne are among the dozens and have used a lot of underhand tactics to violate women during off-duty and in uniform.


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## Kisame3rd14 (Dec 7, 2021)

Subarashii said:


> Damn, I feel bad for you "fiance", please treat her better than you act on here


Do you have one?


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## Kisame3rd14 (Dec 7, 2021)

Velocity said:


> If your idea of respecting women is to say "bag a bitch" then maybe this law is perfect for protecting any from you.


You don’t get out much do you?

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Jagger (Dec 7, 2021)

RemChu said:


> Read the article. Automatically assuming it's in the U.S.


Ngl, that was my first assumption until I read "UK" in the article.


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## Subarashii (Dec 8, 2021)

Kisame3rd14 said:


> Do you have one?


Things I'd rather not tell a creep on the internet who has catcalled women: most things
Gross dude, I was really hoping everyone I tagged had not cat called but, I hope you go to the UK one day


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## Subarashii (Dec 8, 2021)

@creyzi4zb12 you disagree and give nothing to back up your false claims.


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Dec 8, 2021)

Jagger said:


> Ngl, that was my first assumption until I read "UK" in the article.


France has a law like this in place and some US cities too I think. 

The people in here acting like it’s the downfall of society are just putting on a show

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Jagger (Dec 8, 2021)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> France has a law like this in place and some US cities too I think.
> 
> The people in here acting like it’s the downfall of society are just putting on a show


Yeah, I am aware, but idk if it's because most news I read are about the US that my brain is conditioned to think it's always the US.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Dec 8, 2021)

Jagger said:


> Yeah, I am aware, but idk if it's because most news I read are about the US that my brain is conditioned to think it's always the US.


Yeah, even if it’s not the US and many of the people here aren’t from the US a lot of the arguments sound slanted towards a very US centric way of thinking. Like all the freedom of speech talk in a way that ignores how other nations treat speech

Reactions: Agree 1


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## creyzi4zb12 (Dec 8, 2021)

Death Certificate said:


> He has a long history of sexually harassing women, failed a lot of vetting tests and indecent exposure; for fuck sake his fucking nickname is "Rapsit" among his own colleagues.  Even without covid rules Wayne would have ended raping and killing another woman under different circumstances because he's a piece of shit that would have pressured Sarah for resisting arrest.
> Not to mention your main point undermines the corruption and toxic environment within MET Police by simplifying it to Covid rules. Cops like Wayne are among the dozens and have used a lot of underhand tactics to violate women during off-duty and in uniform.



Am not really undermining police corruption. I agree that it does exist. Am just pointing out what the real problem is. Which is social media and internet people overblowing covid restriction rules to the point where it makes people like Everard vulnerable.

I mean would Couzens have used a different tactic?

Would Everard have believed his lies and fallen for the trap if it wasn’t for social media ridiculing people to the point of fearmongering?

Reactions: Disagree 1 | Optimistic 1


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## Gin (Dec 8, 2021)

this still going on huh

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Eros (Dec 8, 2021)

Isn't talking nasty in private when a woman makes it clear she doesn't like it called sexual harassment? Obviously, it's a mild form, but it is what it is. I see no difference if those unwanted advances are in public. This is about more than freedom of speech.


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## blk (Dec 8, 2021)

creyzi4zb12 said:


> Am not really undermining police corruption. I agree that it does exist. Am just pointing out what the real problem is. Which is social media and internet people overblowing covid restriction rules to the point where it makes people like Everard vulnerable.
> 
> I mean would Couzens have used a different tactic?
> Would Everard have believed his lies if it wasn’t for social media ridiculing people to the point of fearmongering?



Wtf?

The Covid thing was just the excuse that man used in that particular instance. 

It has nothing to do with violence towards women / sexism in general lol


Which is what this law tries to fight, at least a little bit.


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## ЯƎWO⅃ᖷ (Dec 8, 2021)

Shinra Kusakabe said:


> Isn't talking nasty in private when a woman makes it clear she doesn't like it called sexual harassment? Obviously, it's a mild form, but it is what it is. I see no difference if those unwanted advances are in public. This is about more than freedom of speech.



those who are concerned about freedom of speech don't realize that most women are scared to speak up when being harrassed  

if you get it wrong or jump the gun, you could ruin someone's life. so more often than not we try to "bare" the unwanted advances. we've all faced it to some extent. whether it's walking by someone and they just _happen _to bump into you and touch you ''accidentally'' in an inappropriate place or something more sinister. 

i remember at my old job a man told me he had something to share, and to follow him to his office. he worked in a different department than i did so i was curious as to what it could be. his office had photos of his wife and kids- i sit down, and he begins chatting to me about random non-work related things. then he begins telling me how exotic i am, how he's never seen such perfect skin and if know how special that is?! 

i hightailed it out of there as soon as i could. but i'm still very annoyed with myself for trying to stay polite instead of telling him he was being inappropriate.

Reactions: Winner 4 | Informative 1 | Friendly 1


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## Corvida (Dec 8, 2021)

ЯƎWO⅃ᖷ said:


> those who are concerned about freedom of speech don't realize that most women are scared to speak up when being harrassed


I lived in a  female student residence

Nothing creepier than the usual suspect getting angry and insulting in miliseconds


ЯƎWO⅃ᖷ said:


> if you get it wrong or jump the gun, you could ruin someone's life. so more often than not we try to "bare" the unwanted advances. we've all faced it to some extent. whether it's walking by someone and they just _happen _to bump into you and touch you ''accidentally'' in an inappropriate place or something more sinister.
> 
> i remember at my old job a man told me he had something to share, and to follow him to his office. he worked in a different department than i did so i was curious as to what it could be. his office had photos of his wife and kids- i sit down, and he begins chatting to me about random non-work related things. then he begins telling me how exotic i am, how he's never seen such perfect skin and if know how special that is?!
> 
> i hightailed it out of there as soon as i could. but i'm still very annoyed with myself for trying to stay polite instead of telling him he was being inappropriate.


Most of us have stories like that
If you are in even less luck  it involves the octopus version

Reactions: Like 3


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## Eros (Dec 8, 2021)

ЯƎWO⅃ᖷ said:


> those who are concerned about freedom of speech don't realize that most women are scared to speak up when being harrassed
> 
> if you get it wrong or jump the gun, you could ruin someone's life. so more often than not we try to "bare" the unwanted advances. we've all faced it to some extent. whether it's walking by someone and they just _happen _to bump into you and touch you ''accidentally'' in an inappropriate place or something more sinister.
> 
> ...


It's a good thing you did leave. He was probably going to proposition you.

Reactions: Like 1


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## reiatsuflow (Dec 8, 2021)

I guess harassment is like pornography, it might be hard to define in every situation but you always know it when you see it (experience it).

I had a stranger call out of a car that I had a nice ass once when I was waiting at a crosswalk in running shorts and it was a friendly thing and nothing about the interaction bothered me, but then there was another situation when I was a teen on a country road and this guy was slowing down by me and talking to me and the amount of internal alarm bells that went off was surreal. I think guys experience some of this stuff when they're younger (stranger danger mostly goes away once you're an adult male).




ЯƎWO⅃ᖷ said:


> those who are concerned about freedom of speech don't realize that most women are scared to speak up when being harrassed
> 
> if you get it wrong or jump the gun, you could ruin someone's life. so more often than not we try to "bare" the unwanted advances. we've all faced it to some extent. whether it's walking by someone and they just _happen _to bump into you and touch you ''accidentally'' in an inappropriate place or something more sinister.
> 
> ...



Yeah but even in this situation, in both the UK and the US, you already have recourse available. If you wanted it.

Reactions: Friendly 1


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## ЯƎWO⅃ᖷ (Dec 8, 2021)

ЯƎWO⅃ᖷ said:


> those who are concerned about freedom of speech don't realize that most women are scared to speak up when being harrassed
> 
> if you get it wrong or jump the gun, you could ruin someone's life. so more often than not we try to "bare" the unwanted advances. we've all faced it to some extent. whether it's walking by someone and they just _happen _to bump into you and touch you ''accidentally'' in an inappropriate place or something more sinister.
> 
> ...



it should have been bear not bare right? 

is there an english teacher in the room

Reactions: Funny 1


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## reiatsuflow (Dec 8, 2021)

^Bare is what the man at your job wanted you to be, while bear is what you did with his behavior.

Reactions: Winner 2


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Dec 8, 2021)

Speaking of stalking stories, a friend of mine told me about how when she was in junior high a boy that was her friend's older brother cornered her several times and made very uncomfortable advances at her. He did this by either catching her alone or setting things up so that they would be alone. 

Men are often fine with telling women how to repel these sorts of things or acting like we need to teach young girls how to say no or maintain their cool and be polite. But they're totally not okay with the idea that maybe we need to talk to young men and boys about what they're doing and what is and isn't appropriate. 

That's the kind of thing that you see all throughout dealing with these problems between men and women. The responsibility routinely falls on the women.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 1 | Winner 3


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## reiatsuflow (Dec 8, 2021)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> If we make it illegal for trucks to roll coal at cyclists all people not on bikes will basically be second class citizens.



Afaik in the few states where it is against the law to roll coal, to oro's point, it's against the law to do that period. If you're jogging and a truck does that to you, if you're walking your dog and you get blasted, anybody can report vehicles for doing that, doesn't matter who you do it to. Even if cyclists are the main ones who get targeted.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Corvida (Dec 8, 2021)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Speaking of stalking stories, a friend of mine told me about how when she was in junior high a boy that was her friend's older brother cornered her several times and made very uncomfortable advances at her. He did this by either catching her alone or setting things up so that they would be alone.
> 
> Men are often fine with telling women how to repel these sorts of things or acti*ng like we need to teach young girls how to say no or maintain their cool and be polite.*


it always works SO well....


Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> But they're totally not okay with the idea that maybe we need to talk to young men and boys about what they're doing and what is and isn't appropriate.
> 
> That's the kind of thing that you see all throughout dealing with these problems between men and women. The responsibility routinely falls on the women.


which is unfair

from my own experience in a ..chicken farm when I was a student-advice to cheeky men

1-hands-off

2-on any account you  Dont have any right to try to slobber

Self advice- knee-kick in the groin and run like hell

From another funny situations-
1-  following and calling Rosie doesnt work-specially if you arent called Rosie
2-insulting isnt sexy
3-this

is universal

Reactions: Funny 1 | Winner 2


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## Jim (Dec 8, 2021)

this thread got popular


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## Magic (Dec 8, 2021)

..........





reiatsuflow said:


> I guess harassment is like pornography, it might be hard to define in every situation but you always know it when you see it (experience it).
> 
> I had a stranger call out of a car that I had a nice ass once when I was waiting at a crosswalk in running shorts and it was a friendly thing and nothing about the interaction bothered me, but then there was another situation when I was a teen on a country road and this guy was slowing down by me and talking to me and the amount of internal alarm bells that went off was surreal. I think guys experience some of this stuff when they're younger (stranger danger mostly goes away once you're an adult male).
> 
> ...


Just a friendly stranger on a dirt road. Being neighborly.

Reactions: Funny 3


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## T-Bag (Dec 8, 2021)

Oh UK...what happened to you?


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## Yuji (Dec 9, 2021)

Not sure how this thread turned into a metoo story time, this is about catcalling not inappropriate touching or overt harassment which is already illegal. You don't justify a catcalling law by talking about allegations of sexual assault.

It just makes it even more clear that there's no justification for this.

Reactions: Funny 1 | Winner 1 | Optimistic 1


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## Xelioszzapporro (Dec 9, 2021)

Yuji said:


> inappropriate touching



Can you define that ?


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## Yuji (Dec 9, 2021)

Xelioszzapporro said:


> Can you define that ?



Again, not really anything to do with the thread but since you asked it's more defined to touching of a sexual nature and the law is as follows

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Corvida (Dec 9, 2021)

Yuji said:


> Not sure how this thread turned into a metoo story time, this is about catcalling not inappropriate touching or overt harassment which is already illegal



Its easy as lying, as Hamlet would say


lets put a really classic Spanish picture of old Madrid

edit-dangerous link?

lets try this






you DONT catcall

Easy as that



This definition is hilarious true to life

1-The classic-Guapapaaaa-Original to the end
2-The hairdresser-"you, blondie"
3-the papito-Likes  reguetón
4-the poet-inspired by his lower parts
5-the zoo trainer-chist" fiuuuuuu!
6-the obscene-"you know where I would put my.."

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1 | Informative 1


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## Xelioszzapporro (Dec 9, 2021)

Yuji said:


> Again, not really anything to do with the thread but since you asked it's more defined to touching of a sexual nature and the law is as follows



Ooookay I got it. Thanks!! 
Basically

*1.* Person touches someone on purpose on a sexual level
*2.* The someone doesn't like it.
*3.* And also the person does it in away that it doesn't seem on purpose even though deep down it clearly is.

Guess groping a stranger can only be consider ''appropriate'' if the stranger wants it.....If the stranger doesn't then it's a sexual harassment.


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## Xelioszzapporro (Dec 9, 2021)

Corvida said:


> lets put a really classic Spanish picture of old Madrid



Are you from 1964 ?


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## Corvida (Dec 9, 2021)

Xelioszzapporro said:


> Are you from 1964 ?


I´m from 1971
the girls face is universally timeless
As construction workers, the legendary catcallers here in Spain
Would you like to be called cunt, whore,or tits?
Just because?

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Xelioszzapporro (Dec 9, 2021)

Corvida said:


> I´m from 1971
> the girls face is universally timeless
> As construction workers, the legendary catcaller here in Spain
> Would you like to be called cunt, whore,or tits?
> Just because?



Oh so 1971. Almost guessed it right.
As for the  names .....I wouldn't really ''prefer'' to be called any of those. 
But if I was obligated to choose one , then it has to be tits. They are very magnetic after all. While the other 2 options are not really...

Reactions: Friendly 1


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## Corvida (Dec 9, 2021)

Xelioszzapporro said:


> Oh so 1971. Almost guessed it right.



yes

50 years old and seen all

Madrid included


Xelioszzapporro said:


> As for the  names .....I wouldn't really ''prefer'' to be called any of those.



doh!


Xelioszzapporro said:


> But if I was obligated to choose one


you shoudnt be obligated to _choose_



Xelioszzapporro said:


> , then it has to be tits. They are very magnetic after all.






Xelioszzapporro said:


> While the other 2 options are not really...


They are among the mildest  one can get into an antology


The "hey, Rosie" would have bee the funniest...except for the fact of the fucker follwing  you right to a gas station

Its...really amazing, truly


No matter your age or how you look

merely walking alone is a ticket to trouble

Reactions: Agree 1 | Informative 1


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## Parallax (Dec 9, 2021)

Yuji said:


> Not sure how this thread turned into a metoo story time, this is about catcalling not inappropriate touching or overt harassment which is already illegal. You don't justify a catcalling law by talking about allegations of sexual assault.
> 
> It just makes it even more clear that there's no justification for this.


This incel mad af

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 3


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## Eros (Dec 9, 2021)

Parallax said:


> This incel mad af


I will cry fake tears for him... Err, I would if I gave a fuck.


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## Subarashii (Dec 9, 2021)

reiatsuflow said:


> think guys experience some of this stuff when they're younger (stranger danger mostly goes aw*ay once you're an adult male*).


At that point you become the stranger 


Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Speaking of stalking stories, a friend of mine told me about how when she was in junior high a boy that was her friend's older brother cornered her several times and made very uncomfortable advances at her. He did this by either catching her alone or setting things up so that they would be alone.
> 
> Men are often fine with telling women how to repel these sorts of things or acting like we need to teach young girls how to say no or maintain their cool and be polite. But they're totally not okay with the idea that maybe we need to talk to young men and boys about what they're doing and what is and isn't appropriate.
> 
> That's the kind of thing that you see all throughout dealing with these problems between men and women. The responsibility routinely falls on the women.


Finally, someone who gets it.


RemChu said:


> ..........
> Just a friendly stranger on a dirt road. Being neighborly.


Are you saying if a truck does this to you they want some kinda Brokeback Mountain situation?

Reactions: Winner 1


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## reiatsuflow (Dec 9, 2021)

Subarashii said:


> At that point you become the stranger



You should have said the danger, suba. You should have said the danger.

-10 feminist points

Reactions: Funny 3


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## blk (Dec 9, 2021)

Corvida said:


> Its easy as lying, as Hamlet would say
> 
> 
> lets put a really classic Spanish picture of old Madrid
> ...



Awesome lol


I can recognize these 'archetypes' even as a man  


Gotta admit i also did my fair share of perstering, in my teens and early 20s, but only in clubs and bars never on the street at least..

Reactions: Friendly 1


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Dec 9, 2021)

Corvida said:


> Its easy as lying, as Hamlet would say
> 
> 
> lets put a really classic Spanish picture of old Madrid
> ...


Why is this so culturally accurate to here? 

Another thing I will say about catcallers and gross dudes in general, don't try to drag random other dudes into your bullshit. One of the things I can't stand the most is some random guy near me in public tapping me or trying to get my attention to point out a hot woman (I probably already see her) and then making some weird fucking comment as like his introductory statement to me. 

"I'd lift that little skirt up and fuck the dog shit out of her." 

"That's cool man, don't touch me. Well, I don't know where to go from here. I think you've kind of tarnished any sort of budding friendship the two of us could have had with that little piece of trivia."

Reactions: Funny 2 | Winner 1


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## ~Avant~ (Dec 10, 2021)

What’s to stop women from lying? That’s legit the only issue I have with this. If authorities need to be involved, then their has to be some proof.


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Dec 10, 2021)

~Avant~ said:


> What’s to stop women from lying? That’s legit the only issue I have with this. If authorities need to be involved, then their has to be some proof.


You think a woman would spot some random man on the street and then make up a story about how he catcalled her? That seems like a stretch. 

Also this is in the UK where there's cameras all over the place in cities. So there would likely be that. There might even be witnesses as a lot of the people who do this shit don't often care about doing it in front of others.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## ~Avant~ (Dec 10, 2021)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> You think a woman would spot some random man on the street and then make up a story about how he catcalled her? That seems like a stretch.
> 
> Also this is in the UK where there's cameras all over the place in cities. So there would likely be that. There might even be witnesses as a lot of the people who do this shit don't often care about doing it in front of others.



You mean like how Emmett Till “whistled” at that white woman?

Reactions: Winner 2 | Informative 1 | Dislike 1


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## Corvida (Dec 10, 2021)

~Avant~ said:


> What’s to stop women from lying?


I´m effing fed up with this argument.

Reactions: Agree 2 | Optimistic 1


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## ~Avant~ (Dec 10, 2021)

Corvida said:


> I´m effing fed up with this argument.


Why? Because it really happened?

I personally know a friend of mine who was falsely accused of rape. Stop acting like women can’t lie or be vindictive or cruel. They have the same propensity towards evil as men do, just not the immediate means to enact them through physical violence usually.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Winner 2


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## Corvida (Dec 10, 2021)

~Avant~ said:


> Why?



Because needless, tired and not strong enough

yes, everyone can be falsely accuded of anycrime

that must not prevent dennouncing them


~Avant~ said:


> I personally know a friend of mine who was falsely accused of rape. Stop acting like women can’t lie or be vindictive or cruel.



Never said women were saints

But if we play to the we know game, I know too

and  saw and knew enough


~Avant~ said:


> They have the same propensity towards evil as men do, just not the immediate means to enact them through physical violence usually.


and as men has immediate means to get physical violence usually

dont harass women in the street, dont  speak "compliments" to unknown women in the street, dont follow women in the street,  dodnt mock women in the street or play at public espace dominance  jeering in packs

last one in Spain  able to check the  immediate means has had to be literally operated four times to be reconstructed down there

Reactions: Like 1


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Dec 10, 2021)

~Avant~ said:


> You mean like how Emmett Till “whistled” at that white woman?


Funny, I don't remember the court system trying Emmett Till and beating him to death, nor do I remember there being cameras everything to see what happened. You're talking about a completely different place and time in what happened there and ignoring the fact that a literal Lynch mob was what did that, not the legal system (not that the legal system didn't protect them after). 

It is funny how you talk about lying but neglect to bring up how men lie all of the time on women too and how the police lie, intimidate, and use their power to get women.

Reactions: Winner 2


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## ~Avant~ (Dec 10, 2021)

Corvida said:


> Because needless, tired and not strong enough



Try saying that to Emette Till. Would it be a stronger argument if it had happened more recently?


Corvida said:


> yes, everyone can be falsely accuded of anycrime
> 
> that must not prevent dennouncing them


I’m not saying that they shouldn’t be denounced. But whether you agree or not, this IS an encroachment on Free Speech and as such should be enacted with limitations and with consideration for how it can be used by less than honorable people. 


Corvida said:


> Never said women were saints
> 
> But if we play to the we know game, I know too
> 
> and  saw and knew enough


Literally don’t know what youre


Corvida said:


> and as men has immediate means to get physical violence usually
> 
> dont harass women in the street, dont  speak "compliments" to unknown women in the street, dont follow women in the street,  dodnt mock women in the street or play at public espace dominance  jeering in packs



That’s a lot of control you’re allowing the government to have. I completely agree with your distaste for the practice of catcalling, I hate it too. But again, any encroachment on Freedom of Speech can’t just be reactionary, and we can apply blanket “solutions” to events that vary drastically between each individual occurrence. One size does not fit all.



Corvida said:


> last one in Spain  able to check the  immediate means has had to be literally operated four times to be reconstructed down there


Wait, what?

Reactions: Lewd 1 | Dislike 1


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## Corvida (Dec 10, 2021)

~Avant~ said:


> Try saying that to Emette Till.





abstract

if you are a  Spanish girl  between 18 and 25 years old, the 78 percent  of them have been already harassed and 90 percent didnt get help of any kind
So-stree  persttering has been typified in Spain this summer



~Avant~ said:


> I’m not saying that they shouldn’t be denounced



they Must


~Avant~ said:


> . But whether you agree or not, this IS an encroachment on Free Speech and as such should be enacted with limitations and with consideration for how it can be used by less than honorable people.



Bollocks

its stoping street harashment


and nowadsy therea re weeks to prove it


~Avant~ said:


> Literally don’t know what youre



old

and saw enough cases

including many of my own


~Avant~ said:


> That’s a lot of control you’re allowing the government to have



and gladly


~Avant~ said:


> . I completely agree with your distaste for the practice of catcalling, I hate it too. But again, any encroachment on Freedom of Speec




harassment


~Avant~ said:


> Wait, what?


you can imagine what tales  we all women are told about  finding men or worse more men in the street since we are small?

this particuar girl wasnt so lucky and found a harassing pack

She ended left for dead and literally broken

the month before, other one has been face smashed in San Sebastian becasue you see

"you wont anwer? Let fix that pretty face"

Reactions: Informative 1


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## ~Avant~ (Dec 10, 2021)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Funny, I don't remember the court system trying Emmett Till and beating him to death, nor do I remember there being cameras everything to see what happened. You're talking about a completely different place and time in what happened there and ignoring the fact that a literal Lynch mob was what did that, not the legal system (not that the legal system didn't protect them after).
> 
> It is funny how you talk about lying but neglect to bring up how men lie all of the time on women too and how the police lie, intimidate, and use their power to get women.


Stop misrepresenting what I said. You said women lying about being sexually harassed was a stretch, I brought a counter argument about women lying. Don’t move the goal post, stay on your own point.

So the mob took power into its own hands and was able to commit murder. What do you think will happen if you hand the State that same kind of power? Are you really that naive? The states which have their interests aligned with the Industrial Prison Complex, I might add. You’re giving the government too much power.

This is only a temporary solution.


Men are in dire straights right now because of so many broken families that sprung up over the last 50 years. Boys being brought up by single mothers is why you have so many derelicts who don’t know what being a man is supposed to be.

Reactions: Funny 1 | Informative 1 | Dislike 4


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## Kitsune (Dec 10, 2021)

~Avant~ said:


> Men are in dire straights right now


Oh no, poor men! I hope they’ll be okay.

Reactions: Funny 6


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## ~Avant~ (Dec 10, 2021)

Kitsune said:


> Oh no, poor men! I hope they’ll be okay.


What’s with the unwarranted apathy?

It’s this same dismissive attitude that perpetuates the cycle.

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Corvida (Dec 10, 2021)

~Avant~ said:


> What’s with the unwarranted apathy?
> 
> It’s this same dismissive attitude that perpetuates the cycle.


its the same dismissive attitude that perpetuates the cycle of street harassment

agin-In Spain 4 in five girls have been harassed and in 90 percent of the cases no help was received from witnessing


1´-insults, obscenities, aggresive complimenting, wistling, persistent following and even persecution

its seen as harmless and are socially tolerated-men see it as a form of group bonding, power affirmation, fun and assertion of masculitiny

well, they got it

typified and penalized in Spain

Reactions: Informative 1


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## ~Avant~ (Dec 10, 2021)

Again, I’m not disagreeing with the law being implemented. Just saying that certain safe guards should be put into place with it, to prevent any abuse that could potentially come from it.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Friendly 1


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## Corvida (Dec 10, 2021)

~Avant~ said:


> Again, I’m not disagreeing with the law being implemented. Just saying that certain safe guards should be put into place with it, to prevent any abuse that could potentially come from it.


That´s the thing to do


But the problem is both vinatag and annoying enougnh to get things like this


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Dec 10, 2021)

~Avant~ said:


> Stop misrepresenting what I said. You said women lying about being sexually harassed was a stretch, I brought a counter argument about women lying. Don’t move the goal post, stay on your own point.
> 
> So the mob took power into its own hands and was able to commit murder. What do you think will happen if you hand the State that same kind of power? Are you really that naive? The states which have their interests aligned with the Industrial Prison Complex, I might add. You’re giving the government too much power.
> 
> ...


I don't think the UK has the problems you're talking about. I don't know how prison works over there, but we're talking about another country. 

Not sure where all this single mothers stuff came from, sure sounds like a way to blame women. As if women aren't the product of single mothers sometimes too or as if women aren't brought up by their fathers. The reason why men in western society are acting out now isn't anything to do with single mothers. It's completely the fault of how men have been allowed to act for so long: solving everything with violence, acting like brutes, being loud and obnoxious and having it written off as being manly or locker room talk or whatever other "boys will be boys" style bullshit someone blames it on. 

A lot of men are suffering the consequences of trying to live up to the ideal of what they have seen on TV and movies and read in books about what a male is. A lot of them are listening to millionaires who try to sell them testosterone boosters, and who have never done a day of honest work in their lives, tell them what a man looks like and pushing these stupid ass traditional ideas of masculinity without examining the bad elements of them.

Reactions: Like 5 | Winner 1 | Optimistic 1


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## Jim (Dec 10, 2021)

~Avant~ said:


> Try saying that to Emette Till. Would it be a stronger argument if it had happened more recently?


You would need to prove that lying is so frequent, that the law would have no effect.


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## ~Avant~ (Dec 10, 2021)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> I don't think the UK has the problems you're talking about. I don't know how prison works over there, but we're talking about another country.
> 
> Not sure where all this single mothers stuff came from, sure sounds like a way to blame women. As if women aren't the product of single mothers sometimes too or as if women aren't brought up by their fathers. The reason why men in western society are acting out now isn't anything to do with single mothers. It's completely the fault of how men have been allowed to act for so long: solving everything with violence, acting like brutes, being loud and obnoxious and having it written off as being manly or locker room talk or whatever other "boys will be boys" style bullshit someone blames it on.
> 
> A lot of men are suffering the consequences of trying to live up to the ideal of what they have seen on TV and movies and read in books about what a male is. A lot of them are listening to millionaires who try to sell them testosterone boosters, and who have never done a day of honest work in their lives, tell them what a man looks like and pushing these stupid ass traditional ideas of masculinity without examining the bad elements of them.


Literally do any research on statistics for single mother households. Ranging between 60%-80%, if you’re raised in a single mother household you’re more likely to have teen pregnancy, high school drop outs, mental disorder, more likely to have abused drugs, to go to jail, to attempt suicide, to commit suicide, more likely to get the shit end of society’s stick.

That’s just a fact. You’re all welcome to seek the research out for yourselves. We need to stop putting innocent men in jails, we should fix the laws so that men aren’t left destitute paying child support or alimony, teach our boys healthier ways to channel their aggression, and more appropriate ways of courting women. We need to take relationships and sex seriously again instead of treating it as something casual or exchangeable for profit. Somethings SHOULD remain sacred.

Men shouldn’t lay with women unless they’re serious about starting a family. Women should have their fathers around to vet their suitors, that way they don’t end up with fuck boys.

The old ways worked for thousands of years for a reason. We just need to combine them with our modern capabilities and then a true step towards a universal good for everyone can actually be taken.

Reactions: Funny 1 | Winner 1 | Neutral 1 | Dislike 3


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## ~Avant~ (Dec 10, 2021)

Jim said:


> You would need to prove that lying is so frequent, that the law would have no effect.


If it means even one person can be abused by it, then it’s not a law worth upholding. Either it works for us all or it works for none of us. That is why it is a Law. Better to have the safe guard in place than to not.


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## Death Certificate (Dec 10, 2021)

A lot of nerds in this place got smoke for single mothers, but nothing for dead beats.

Reactions: Winner 2


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## ~Avant~ (Dec 10, 2021)

Dead beats are literally not around to be analyzed statistically… ergo why the single mother fucking exists.


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## Death Certificate (Dec 10, 2021)

Still proving my point.


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## ~Avant~ (Dec 10, 2021)

Oh and before you try to ask, what about the cause of having a dead beat has in the child. 90% of all break ups are initiated by the woman.

The woman is the one who breaks up the home. The woman is the one responsible for becoming a single mother.

Now why is that? It’s because values have changed. Stay at home moms became a thing to runaway from and career woman became the lifestyle of choice.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 1 | Winner 1 | Dislike 3


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Dec 10, 2021)

~Avant~ said:


> Literally do any research on statistics for single mother households. Ranging between 60%-80%, if you’re raised in a single mother household you’re more likely to have teen pregnancy, high school drop outs, mental disorder, more likely to have abused drugs, to go to jail, to attempt suicide, to commit suicide, more likely to get the shit end of society’s stick.
> 
> That’s just a fact. You’re all welcome to seek the research out for yourselves. We need to stop putting innocent men in jails, we should fix the laws so that men aren’t left destitute paying child support or alimony, teach our boys healthier ways to channel their aggression, and more appropriate ways of courting women. We need to take relationships and sex seriously again instead of treating it as something casual or exchangeable for profit. Somethings SHOULD remain sacred.
> 
> ...


You don't control me, I'm going to continue my "birth control" method of nutting in women's hair out of respect for the environment and love of disposable income to continue to buy overpriced anime figures and video games I'll never play.


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## Jim (Dec 10, 2021)

~Avant~ said:


> If it means even one person can be abused by it, then it’s not a law worth upholding. Either it works for us all or it works for none of us. That is why it is a Law. Better to have the safe guard in place than to not.


Doesn't that mean every law should be abolished?

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Death Certificate (Dec 10, 2021)

~Avant~ said:


> Oh and before you try to ask


I can't speak for everyone but I didn't ask



~Avant~ said:


> what about the cause of having a dead beat has in the child. 90% of all break ups are initiated by the woman.


See this type of language acts like women don't have reasons for their actions. Like would you expect a woman to keep a man who doesn't want to raise their kid, keep a man who would rather throw hands at herself and child, keep a man who puts a child and herself at the lowest priority.

Women aren't obligated to keep men who don't want them, and it's foolish to blame them for making their own kid the #1 priority 



~Avant~ said:


> Now why is that? It’s because values have changed. Stay at home moms became a thing to runaway from and career woman became the lifestyle of choice.



Yes values have changed because that's humanity in a fucking nutshell. We advance as a race by always questioning what works and doesn't, what traditions are worth keeping, etc... 

As for your point about "stay at home moms" is completely bullshit and act likes women being more than incubators is a crime and ignoring the history of women in general.


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## Kisame3rd14 (Dec 10, 2021)

~Avant~ said:


> Literally do any research on statistics for single mother households. Ranging between 60%-80%, if you’re raised in a single mother household you’re more likely to have teen pregnancy, high school drop outs, mental disorder, more likely to have abused drugs, to go to jail, to attempt suicide, to commit suicide, more likely to get the shit end of society’s stick.
> 
> That’s just a fact. You’re all welcome to seek the research out for yourselves. We need to stop putting innocent men in jails, we should fix the laws so that men aren’t left destitute paying child support or alimony, teach our boys healthier ways to channel their aggression, and more appropriate ways of courting women. We need to take relationships and sex seriously again instead of treating it as something casual or exchangeable for profit. Somethings SHOULD remain sacred.
> 
> ...


I can’t get a read on you, but this post is based.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Delta Shell (Dec 10, 2021)

~Avant~ said:


> Oh and before you try to ask, what about the cause of having a dead beat has in the child. 90% of all break ups are initiated by the woman.
> 
> The woman is the one who breaks up the home. The woman is the one responsible for becoming a single mother.
> 
> Now why is that? It’s because values have changed. Stay at home moms became a thing to runaway from and career woman became the lifestyle of choice.


Bruh come on now.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## ~Avant~ (Dec 10, 2021)

Delta Shell said:


> Bruh come on now.


“If the truth kills them, let them die” - Emmanuel Kant

Reactions: Winner 2 | Informative 1


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Dec 10, 2021)

~Avant~ said:


> “If the truth kills them, let them die” - Emmanuel Kant


This is a quote often misattributed to Kant, it's actually Ayn Rand paraphrasing Kant. Also the quote is "If the truth shall kill them, let them die." 

Anyone who's been in a philosophy class could tell you Kant never wrote a sentence that simple and short in his fucking life.

Reactions: Funny 1 | Winner 3 | Informative 2


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## Eros (Dec 10, 2021)

blk said:


>


Welcome to the Victorian Age.

Reactions: Funny 3


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## ~Avant~ (Dec 10, 2021)

Explain to me, what do you actually stand to gain from having casual sex? Compared to what you would stand to gain if you were actually serious about a partner? Why not take yourself more seriously?

When you let others treat you casually, what you’re saying is, you’re just a casual thing. I am not a casual thing. No one should think themselves as something to be treated casually, you must be strong and be treasured for that strength, for that heart, and mind. Is that not the entire point of finding love?

Reactions: Funny 3 | Winner 1


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## Jim (Dec 10, 2021)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> in his fucking life.


was that different from his normal life?
j/k

Reactions: Funny 1


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## ~Avant~ (Dec 10, 2021)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> This is a quote often misattributed to Kant, it's actually Ayn Rand paraphrasing Kant. Also the quote is "If the truth shall kill them, let them die."
> 
> Anyone who's been in a philosophy class could tell you Kant never wrote a sentence that simple and short in his fucking life.


I love how out of everything I said, you picked at the quote I misquoted. You can hold to that consolation prize, I know how much you must value those participation points.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## ~Avant~ (Dec 10, 2021)

Also, like I give a darn about misquoting Ayn Rand: I’d rather wrongly give the credit for it to Kant. Ayn Rand was a racist fucking elitist, the same likes as Bezos, Gates, and the Trumps.

Fuck Ayn Rand.


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## Parallax (Dec 10, 2021)

This thread has become a "ohh nooooo think of the men" whining.  Pathetic

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 5 | Funny 3 | Winner 1


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## afg (Dec 10, 2021)

~Avant~ said:


> Men shouldn’t lay with women unless they’re serious about starting a family. Women should have their fathers around to vet their suitors, that way they don’t end up with fuck boys.
> 
> The old ways worked for thousands of years for a reason. We just need to combine them with our modern capabilities and then a true step towards a universal good for everyone can actually be taken.



No.



Maybe if you had some sex the post nut clarity would cleanse your mind from this foolishness.

Reactions: Funny 14 | Winner 1


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## ~Avant~ (Dec 10, 2021)

Parallax said:


> This thread has become a "ohh nooooo think of the men" whining.  Pathetic


If you hate men, just say that.

Reactions: Funny 3


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Dec 10, 2021)

Death Certificate said:


> A lot of nerds in this place got smoke for single mothers, but nothing for dead beats.


They see themselves in that role

Reactions: Funny 2 | Winner 1


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Dec 10, 2021)

Women trying to avoid shit like this.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## ~Avant~ (Dec 10, 2021)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> They see themselves in that role


Great ad-hominem. Say something of substance.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Dec 10, 2021)

~Avant~ said:


> Great ad-hominem. Say something of substance.


You've been in here banging on about how horrible women and single mothers are this whole time. I am just offering speculation why you have little to say about the men in these situations


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## ~Avant~ (Dec 11, 2021)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> You've been in here banging on about how horrible women and single mothers are this whole time. I am just offering speculation why you have little to say about the men in these situations


What is there to say. You can’t quantify a negative. If the father isn’t around, he doesn’t have much influence. We know that children who have two parents in the household do much better than those that don’t. Unfortunately we’ve learned that single mother households are the most vulnerable. As for single father households, static’s point the opposite direction  with most children succeeding and do well. I’m not trying to bash women or say men are better, I’m just reporting the facts.

If the case were so that most children suffered under single father households, I would be just as steadfast in addressing the issue. What matters are the children, not the two adults who made a decision. It’s what’s in their best interest.

To keep from broken homes to continue to proliferate, we need to go back to older traditions, where relationships and sex were taken seriously.

If we continue to not address the route causes to the current calamities befalling society, we’ll all be doomed. We have to stand in solidarity and unity. We will never be able to do that, so long as we are divided. The place to start is at the home. We need mothers and fathers and families again. We need stable households without fear of losing their housing or putting food on the table, not of losing their jobs or their health. Then people will be able to seek out higher education, dedicate themselves to their true callings, not one under the duress of survive or perish.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1 | Optimistic 1


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Dec 11, 2021)

~Avant~ said:


> What is there to say. You can’t quantify a negative. If the father isn’t around, he doesn’t have much influence. We know that children who have two parents in the household do much better than those that don’t. Unfortunately we’ve learned that single mother households are the most vulnerable. As for single father households, static’s point the opposite direction  with most children succeeding and do well. I’m not trying to bash women or say men are better, I’m just reporting the facts.
> 
> If the case were so that most children suffered under single father households, I would be just as steadfast in addressing the issue. What matters are the children, not the two adults who made a decision. It’s what’s in their best interest.
> 
> ...


Let's forget that I don't have those statistics or the energy to look them up right now and assume that you're telling the truth. The reason why single mother houses could be said to do worse is because single women who are mothers, especially ones who get pregnant young are facing an uphill battle to educate themselves to a degree that they can support themselves and their kid, they could wind up with another guy who leaves them possibly with a new kid or they could go and do one of those things that society says is too deplorable and dangerous (various forms of sex work). Women typically have less access to lucrative work, less safety from men at that workplace and without government help to pay for child care and other things they're at a loss unless the man involved happens to be helping them out like he is supposed to be. 

You dumb societal failings on these women is what you're doing here and in the case of men who are single with a child in a lot of those cases the mother has passed away and the man, being a man, has a higher chance of finding good work. It's rather rare to see a man with his kids who is actually raising them single without the mother being dead. 

As for your thing about father's raising daughters and them growing up better off, I would say that's because women are forced by society to defend themselves while walking a tight rope. People are a lot more critical of them and their behaviors and there's less excuses made for them. When people claim that someone did something because they're a woman it usually has a negative connotation, when the same excuse is made for males it is usually positive.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## ~Avant~ (Dec 11, 2021)

Imagine how much better your life would be if you actually did all the things you knew you were supposed to do? All those times you said you’d go to the gym but didn’t, all the secrets, promises broken, lies, regrets. Nothing beats us up so much as ourselves because at the end we always feel like we should have known better.

But the truth is, we all do know better. We all share an innate moral compass and we can sense when things are wrong. But sometimes we believe the lie we tell ourselves because it’s easier to bear to than truth. But so long as you remain in a lie and don’t take the things that happen to you seriously, if you don’t focus your intention and your attention on the things that really matter to you, drive you, impassion you, you will be a bystander in your own life, suffering at the whims of others.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Magic (Dec 11, 2021)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Women trying to avoid shit like this.




Did he shorten it because it won't fit in the tweet? 
Incomplete thought. 

Eh english probably not his first language.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Magic (Dec 11, 2021)

~Avant~ said:


> Imagine how much better your life would be if you actually did all the things you knew you were supposed to do? All those times you said you’d go to the gym but didn’t, all the secrets, promises broken, lies, regrets. Nothing beats us up so much as ourselves because at the end we always feel like we should have known better.
> 
> But the truth is, we all do know better. We all share an innate moral compass and we can sense when things are wrong. But sometimes we believe the lie we tell ourselves because it’s easier to bear to than truth. But so long as you remain in a lie and don’t take the things that happen to you seriously, if you don’t focus your intention and your attention on the things that really matter to you, drive you, impassion you, you will be a bystander in your own life, suffering at the whims of others.


Is he okay?

?

Reactions: Agree 3 | Funny 6


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## ~Avant~ (Dec 11, 2021)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Let's forget that I don't have those statistics or the energy to look them up right now and assume that you're telling the truth






Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> . The reason why single mother houses could be said to do worse is because single women who are mothers, especially ones who get pregnant young are facing an uphill battle to educate themselves to a degree that they can support themselves and their kid, they could wind up with another guy who leaves them possibly with a new kid or they could go and do one of those things that society says is too deplorable and dangerous (various forms of sex work). Women typically have less access to lucrative work, less safety from men at that workplace and without government help to pay for child care and other things they're at a loss unless the man involved happens to be helping them out like he is supposed to be.



And this is why keeping husbands and fathers in homes is important. Traditionally fathers have always vetted the suitors of their daughters and generally protected them from would be philanderers.

In the modern day, if a woman is serious enough to lay with a man, she needs to be able to confront the very serious reality that she can get pregnant. Today we have all types of contraception, condoms, pills, shots, morning after pill and abortion.

A woman has a hundred options if she wants to keep the child and face the odds as a single mother. If she chose a bad man to lay with it’s because she did not have an example as to what a good man should be.

Which isn’t to say fathers aren’t without their faults. We need to show men to be more in tune with their emotions but how to do in a masculine one. One the doesn’t effeminate the man.

You dumb societal failings on these women is what you're doing here and in the case of men who are single with a child in a lot of those cases the mother has passed away and the man, being a man, has a higher chance of finding good work. It's rather rare to see a man with his kids who is actually raising them single without the mother being dead.

The gender gap inequality has been debunked. Idk if that’s what’s driving this point. It still doesn’t deter from the facts.



Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> As for your thing about father's raising daughters and them growing up better off, I would say that's because women are forced by society to defend themselves while walking a tight rope. People are a lot more critical of them and their behaviors and there's less excuses made for them. When people claim that someone did something because they're a woman it usually has a negative connotation, when the same excuse is made for males it is usually positive.


Again, women are responsible for choosing that fate. Men are the gate keepers to relationships and marriage, but women are the gate keepers to sex and bringing life into the world. They need to treat that power with the seriousness and reverence that it deserves.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## ~Avant~ (Dec 11, 2021)

All the ad-hominems but no real counter points. I’m trying to teach you guys something here.

Reactions: Agree 2 | Funny 3 | Friendly 2 | Old 1


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Dec 11, 2021)

~Avant~ said:


> All the ad-hominems but no real counter points. I’m trying to teach you guys something here.


These aren't points, they're just the general MRA type stuff. There are a lot of incel style antics on here for some reason

Reactions: Agree 4


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## ~Avant~ (Dec 11, 2021)

Why are you so dismissive?  These ARE points, you not recognizing them as such doesn’t invalidate them.

I answered all your questions, but no counter arguments from you at all. You seem like the one who’s so stuck in their way of thinking any other possible opinion has to be fringe.

You can’t censor the truth.


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## Yami Munesanzun (Dec 11, 2021)

Corvida said:


> I´m from 1971
> the girls face is universally timeless
> As construction workers, the legendary catcallers here in Spain
> Would you like to be called cunt, whore,or tits?
> Just because?


I am always humbled to meet someone drastically older than me on these parts.

Can I call you Gramps?

Reactions: Friendly 1


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## Yami Munesanzun (Dec 11, 2021)

Parallax said:


> This thread has become a "ohh nooooo think of the men" whining.  Pathetic


I mean. 

You should also think of men. 
just not in the confines of this context


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## ~Avant~ (Dec 11, 2021)

You guys act so enlightened but have yet to share your actual opinions.


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Dec 11, 2021)

~Avant~ said:


> You guys act so enlightened but have yet to share your actual opinions.


Leave people alone in public. Don't bother people listening to music or reading unless it's an emergency (they dropped something, there's some kind of danger nearby, etc)

They wouldn't try to make laws like this or women only spaces if so many men could stop being entitled to women's bodies, time, and feeling like they have any right to tell women what should and shouldn't be seen as threatening to them.

Reactions: Funny 2 | Winner 1


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## Corvida (Dec 11, 2021)

~Avant~ said:


> What is there to say. You can’t quantify a negative. If the father isn’t around,




let me repost the Madrid pics of ye olden times

ah old Franco Spain, when a woman coudnt own a bank account , travel without the master persmission, could go to jail if she strayed and divorce didnt exist

The Fatherrrrrr  figure was sacrosant
  and men respected women so much that not only street harassed
-they started their sex training, mandatorily, either with the house servant or in a brothel
Look at the age of the little fuckers that are harassing the your woman-they are  kids and well dressed ones






Yami Munesanzun said:


> I am always humbled to meet someone drastically older than me on these parts.
> 
> Can I call you Gramps?




Grandmama, my child


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## ~Avant~ (Dec 11, 2021)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Leave people alone in public. Don't bother people listening to music or reading unless it's an emergency (they dropped something, there's some kind of danger nearby, etc)



So stop all social interaction, stop potential for meeting new people while you’re out enjoying the day. The way you so willingly put on shackles and etch freedom onto them and want everyone to head to their assigned cells so that their can be “harmony “ just sounds like a slow moving embalming.



Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> They wouldn't try to make laws like this or women only spaces if so many men could stop being entitled to women's bodies, time, and feeling like they have any right to tell women what should and shouldn't be seen as threatening to them.


“They wouldn’t”, because they’ve never sensationalized or misled you, because people in power don’t have their own hidden agendas and secrets, because the system has been working for the past 100 years, that’s why you cam afford to make a statement and begin it with presuming someone’s motives, because you assume they align with your own. But they don’t. Look at the crisis state the world is in. Is it indicative that “they” have been doing anything other than making themselves richer at the expense of the world.

But you really think “they wouldn’t”, it is our task as citizens of this world to be vigilant and make sure that they DONT. If even one innocent person can be made prey to the law, then the law is not worth having.

Reactions: Funny 1 | Disagree 1


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## ~Avant~ (Dec 11, 2021)

Corvida said:


> let me repost the Madrid pics of ye olden times
> 
> ah old Franco Spain, when a woman coudnt own a bank account , travel without the master persmission, could go to jail if she strayed and divorce didnt exist
> 
> ...



What does that have to do with anything?


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## Gin (Dec 11, 2021)



Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 1


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## Jim (Dec 11, 2021)

~Avant~ said:


> If even one innocent person can be made prey to the law, then the law is not worth having.


But then we wouldn't have laws.


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## blk (Dec 11, 2021)

~Avant~ said:


> What does that have to do with anything?



It means that your 19th century-tier patriarchal system doesn't work and it never worked to prevent sexism.


In fact the system itself was sexist at its core and its legacy is an outright cause of today's problems in that aspect.

Reactions: Funny 1 | Winner 1


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## ~Avant~ (Dec 11, 2021)

Jim said:


> But then we wouldn't have laws.


We wouldn’t have laws that were unjust


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## ~Avant~ (Dec 11, 2021)

blk said:


> It means that your 19th century-tier patriarchal system doesn't work and it never worked to prevent sexism.
> 
> 
> In fact the system itself was sexist at its core and its legacy is an outright cause of today's problems in that aspect.


I’m not suggesting we go back to women not being able to have the rights and liberties they do now. That’s what the issue was back then, the system was oppressive.

We can have a hierarchy that exists while still ensuring that people at the bottom, regardless of gender aren’t crushed.

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## Yuji (Dec 11, 2021)

*How do you justify this law?*

This thread:

- Sarah Everett was raped and murdered so we need laws against catcalling
- My friend was groped so we need laws against cat calling
- The patriarchy 
- Something about incels
- In 1921 men harassed women on the streets of Madrid and women couldn't own a bank account

^ That's what you get when you abandon critical thinking and logic for your feelings.

Reactions: Winner 1 | Dislike 5


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## Parallax (Dec 11, 2021)

Yuji said:


> *How do you justify this law?*
> 
> This thread:
> 
> ...

Reactions: Funny 5


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## ~Avant~ (Dec 11, 2021)

Does no one here have an actual argument? Are all you just empty memes and ad-hominems. If I’m wrong, show me what you believe the right way is supposed to be, I’m open to evolving my thinking, but not at the cost of abandoning reason and rationality.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Death Certificate (Dec 11, 2021)

Yuji said:


> ^ That's what you get when you abandon critical thinking and logic for your feelings



Projecting a lot there chud.

Reactions: Agree 3 | Dislike 1


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## ЯƎWO⅃ᖷ (Dec 11, 2021)

Yuji said:


> Not sure how this thread turned into a metoo story time, this is about catcalling not inappropriate touching or overt harassment which is already illegal. *You don't justify a catcalling law by talking about allegations of sexual assault.*
> 
> It just makes it even more clear that there's no justification for this.



I hope you REACH this far for your dreams


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## reiatsuflow (Dec 11, 2021)

For the sake of the holiday season let's just levelset by agreeing it's not okay to kidnap and rape women and then be on our way.


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## Parallax (Dec 11, 2021)

~Avant~ said:


> Does no one here have an actual argument? Are all you just empty memes and ad-hominems. If I’m wrong, show me what you believe the right way is supposed to be, I’m open to evolving my thinking, but not at the cost of abandoning reason and rationality.


I'm talking to yuji here not u stop being defensive


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## Dragon D. Luffy (Dec 11, 2021)

Yuji said:


> ^ That's what you get when you abandon critical thinking and logic for your feelings.



Who needs feelings anyway? Or friendship? Those are for the weak.

Only power matters. And vengeance. Once we complete the infinite tsukuyomi, we will be unstoppable!

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 2


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## Harmonie (Dec 11, 2021)

This is good. Although I don't know how enforceable it is. The most important thing to do is to raise boys better to begin with. I mean, Jesus Christ, even anime and manga series make sexual assault to be some kind of joke. That needs to stop.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Pilaf (Dec 11, 2021)

Even if it's not enforceable it should change people's perception of harassment. That's really not free speech. It's a form of abuse.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1 | Winner 1


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## Corvida (Dec 11, 2021)

Yuji said:


> *How do you justify this law?*




*Because harassing women is abhorrent*


Yuji said:


> This thread:
> 
> - Sarah Everett was raped and murdered so we need laws against catcalling



And street harassment is part of the same  mentality

and the fucktard murderer was already nicnamed rapist?

But why bother?


Yuji said:


> - My friend was groped so we need laws



I was groped

  oh and followed

and "invited to cofee"



and for fucks sake even almost got cornered in a park  when I was already in my forties by bein g idiot enough to be sitting alone

As in Spain 4 of 5 girls under 25 years will be harassed, assaulted  insulted or followed
90 percent of the times no one do anything

So laws had to be made


Yuji said:


> - The patriarchy



fuck it

but it  seems its all due to  modern times and single moms


Yuji said:


> - Something about incels



always


Yuji said:


> - In 1921



look better




Yuji said:


> men harassed women on the streets of Madrid



constatly

even in the twenty first century


Yuji said:


> and women couldn't own a bank account


until almost tthe 1980s

Reactions: Informative 1


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## ~Avant~ (Dec 11, 2021)

You’re all just a bunch of loud noises and reaction memes. Nearsighted bandaid solutions that don’t address the root causes to the ailments of society and just the symptoms derived from those causes.

Not a single compelling argument or point of view from anyone. You all just to ridicule someone’s voice but don’t offer your own to bringing any semblance of credence to why you think we’re wrong.

I care about these things, and I take these things seriously. You all need to wake up and start taking them seriously too. Have you all learned nothing? If you have a different point of view to mine, share it. Make it a discussion, bring a fucking solution.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Funny 2 | Disagree 1 | Dislike 1


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## Yuji (Dec 11, 2021)

Corvida said:


> And street harassment is part of the same mentality



Calling out to someone is the same mentality as rape and murder? Are you listening to yourself?

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Corvida (Dec 11, 2021)

~Avant~ said:


> You’re all just a bunch of loud noises and reaction memes


Dont cat call or harass women on the street
dont follow, whistle,shout obscenities or try to touch women in the street or public transportation

Dont play to scare women in the street

Dont try to be funny to pass the time
Dont start an unsolicited conversation or ask for telephone numbers to a visibly angry woman

Reactions: Friendly 1


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## Corvida (Dec 11, 2021)

Yuji said:


> Calling out to someone is the same mentality as rape and murder? Are you listening to yourself?


Yes

"calling out" my cojones

street harassment is the exact SAME mentality

No woman wanst to listen to what you want to do with her

thats includes the famous pussy grabbing, the "saliva suit" or any  variation of it

HARR, HARRR  YOU WANT TO TRY FUN????'

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Parallax (Dec 11, 2021)

~Avant~ said:


> You’re all just a bunch of loud noises and reaction memes. Nearsighted bandaid solutions that don’t address the root causes to the ailments of society and just the symptoms derived from those causes.
> 
> Not a single compelling argument or point of view from anyone. You all just to ridicule someone’s voice but don’t offer your own to bringing any semblance of credence to why you think we’re wrong.
> 
> I care about these things, and I take these things seriously. You all need to wake up and start taking them seriously too. Have you all learned nothing? If you have a different point of view to mine, share it. Make it a discussion, bring a fucking solution.



Lmao he really thinks he's telling us to peep game omg

Reactions: Agree 1 | Disagree 1


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## Canute87 (Dec 11, 2021)

~Avant~ said:


> *What’s to stop women from lying*? That’s legit the only issue I have with this. If authorities need to be involved, then their has to be some proof.


Similar punishment.

Besides if i'm to be honest I don't see any reason why a random woman would point to an average man just to get him locked up for no reason.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Dec 11, 2021)

Pilaf said:


> Even if it's not enforceable it should change people's perception of harassment. That's really not free speech. It's a form of abuse.



This is what i call first world problems.

Oh no some random dude in the city said i had nice juicy ass sculpted by zeus himself and he wants to smash his face in them 

How will i ever move on with my day.

Reactions: Funny 5 | Winner 1


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## Gin (Dec 11, 2021)

You’re all just a bunch of loud noises and reaction memes. Nearsighted bandaid solutions that don’t address the root causes to the ailments of society and just the symptoms derived from those causes.

Not a single compelling argument or point of view from anyone. You all just to ridicule someone’s voice but don’t offer your own to bringing any semblance of credence to why you think we’re wrong.

I care about these things, and I take these things seriously. You all need to wake up and start taking them seriously too. Have you all learned nothing? If you have a different point of view to mine, share it. Make it a discussion, bring a fucking solution.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 5


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## Corvida (Dec 11, 2021)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> This is what i call first world problems.



Really?
Becasue the stree harassment is universal



Is it funny?





Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Oh no some random dude in the city said i had nice juicy ass sculpted by zeus himself and he wants to smash his face in them
> 
> How will i ever move on with my day.


smashing his face but with  the elbow

_what the budafuk?_


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## Yuji (Dec 11, 2021)

~Avant~ said:


> Does no one here have an actual argument? Are all you just empty memes and ad-hominems. If I’m wrong, show me what you believe the right way is supposed to be, I’m open to evolving my thinking, but not at the cost of abandoning reason and rationality.



Unfortunately this very aptly summarises a large portion of people here, and it's even more unfortunate that they will be allowed to vote.

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## Death Certificate (Dec 11, 2021)

Yuji said:


> Calling out to someone


This is what we call ignorance. Despite reading more than 9 pages of cat-calling being another form of sexual harassment, with 3 women giving their experience with cat-calling and how fucking  awful it is, you still have Yuji downplaying cat-calling as "calling out to someone"

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1 | Winner 2


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## Jim (Dec 11, 2021)

~Avant~ said:


> We wouldn’t have laws that were unjust


every law could be exploited and put innocent people in prison.


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## blk (Dec 11, 2021)

Yuji said:


> *How do you justify this law?*
> 
> This thread:
> 
> ...



You lack basic reading comprehension tho.

So not sure how you can talk about logic, critical thinking etc 




~Avant~ said:


> Nearsighted bandaid solutions that don’t address the root causes to the ailments of society and just the symptoms derived from those causes.



Root cause is sexism legacy from previous culture (the same one you want us to get back to).



~Avant~ said:


> Not a single compelling argument or point of view from anyone.



You have no argument as well.

Don't need to make an argument to discard another non-argument.




~Avant~ said:


> I care about these things, and I take these things seriously.



Lol



~Avant~ said:


> You all need to wake up and start taking them seriously too. Have you all learned nothing? If you have a different point of view to mine, share it. Make it a discussion, bring a fucking solution.



The solutions are precisely these kinds of laws, in the short term.


Long term solution is public awareness, progressivism, sexual education in schools (including the importance of consent, respect, normalization of LGBT and similar), etc



FOR SURE not going back to you 19th century thinking:


> Men shouldn’t lay with women unless they’re serious about starting a family. Women should have their fathers around to vet their suitors, that way they don’t end up with fuck boys.



Your words of a couple post back.

Reactions: Funny 2 | Winner 1


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## Yuji (Dec 11, 2021)

Death Certificate said:


> This is what we call ignorance. Despite reading more than 9 pages of cat-calling being another form of sexual harassment, with 3 women giving their experience with cat-calling and how fucking  awful it is, you still have Yuji downplaying cat-calling as "calling out to someone"



Oh no 3 women gave their stories about catcalling, how many videos and comments would you like me to give you of women telling you that men calling out to them isn't a big deal and comparing it to sexual harassment is pathetically hilarious? Would that help you?

Reactions: Agree 2 | Winner 1 | Dislike 7


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## Corvida (Dec 11, 2021)

Yuji said:


> Oh no 3 women gave their stories about catcalling, how many videos and comments would you like me to give you of women telling you that men calling out



"calling out"

This is revolting

No men has the entitlement to "call out" what  most of the time a girl is called

is not funny, cute or spicy

Reactions: Like 3


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## Parallax (Dec 11, 2021)

Gin said:


> You’re all just a bunch of loud noises and reaction memes. Nearsighted bandaid solutions that don’t address the root causes to the ailments of society and just the symptoms derived from those causes.
> 
> Not a single compelling argument or point of view from anyone. You all just to ridicule someone’s voice but don’t offer your own to bringing any semblance of credence to why you think we’re wrong.
> 
> I care about these things, and I take these things seriously. You all need to wake up and start taking them seriously too. Have you all learned nothing? If you have a different point of view to mine, share it. Make it a discussion, bring a fucking solution.


The idea that you have to seriously engage a ludicrous and stupid opinion is exactly how we got into this mess.  No the fuck we don't have to cater to these ridiculously misogynistic arguments

Reactions: Like 2


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## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Dec 11, 2021)

It's a rude and sexist habit anyways. It's no different than random strangers pointing at you and making fun of you trying to make you feel like shit, but some wont empathize cuz it's a gender issue. I wouldn't criminalize it tho, but I'd 100% use it as an instigator if it led to an actual crime.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Eros (Dec 11, 2021)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Leave people alone in public. Don't bother people listening to music or reading unless it's an emergency (they dropped something, there's some kind of danger nearby, etc)
> 
> They wouldn't try to make laws like this or women only spaces if so many men could stop being entitled to women's bodies, time, and feeling like they have any right to tell women what should and shouldn't be seen as threatening to them.


My mom is almost 71 years old and a lot more conservative than I am, but she is totally in favor of such a law. She has dealt with this kind of bullshit her entire life. Why should men feel entitled and empowered to demean and humiliate women? The answer is quite simple. They should not. It's a form of abuse.

Reactions: Winner 5


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## Arles Celes (Dec 11, 2021)

Hmmm, I wonder how guys have the courage to do that stuff in the middle of the street or in some store?

Like...seriously?

If the girl got her dad, boyfriend or male friend nearby it can lead to a brutal fight. The girl's female friends might also jump at the offender and not in a cute way. A policaman in civil outfit might also happen to hear that and get angry.

Even sans that it would be super embarrassing lol. Like: "Look girls I'm an idiot do you find it hot and would you sleep with me?".

I guess the cat caller would need to be drunk...or do that to a girl whom he has known since childhood and it happens to be their sort of bickering/joking that the girl finds amusing or at least tolerates.

That said would said law work both ways? If a girl pulls off some cat calling of her own on some attractive guy will there be double standards or will both a male and female offender be equally punished?

Also would that cover (or should it also cover) stuff like giving a random girl a wink or a naughty smile? Anything that might make her uncomfortable? And if so then will girls also be punished by doing stuff that makes a guy uncomfortable?

The more priviledges a single group of people gets the easier it gets to abuse it in some way. Especially if standard procedure "Is not guilty till proven otherwise" is breached as in that case anyone can accuse anyone of anything sans any proof and win.

Reactions: Winner 1 | Friendly 1


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Dec 11, 2021)

If a gay dude came up to me and said yes Zaddy you have a nice ass and you look like you know how to use that rod of yours to, do you want your dick sucked? 

I would be like

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 3 | Dislike 2


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Dec 11, 2021)

Arles Celes said:


> Hmmm, I wonder how guys have the courage to do that stuff in the middle of the street or in some store?
> 
> Like...seriously?
> 
> ...


Most of the time men won’t do this when a man is with the woman. It’s why a lot of men don’t understand how often it happens. They’re not able to see it and if they don’t do it themselves they won’t notice. 

When I’ve witnessed it with a friend it happened because I was near but didn’t seem to be with them.


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## Corvida (Dec 11, 2021)

Arles Celes said:


> Hmmm, I wonder how guys have the courage to do that stuff in the middle of the street or in some store?
> 
> Like...seriously?
> 
> If the girl got her dad, boyfriend or male friend nearby it can lead to a brutal fight. The girl's female friends might also jump at the offender and not in a cute way. A policaman in civil outfit might also happen to hear that and get angry.




Oddly enough, it usually happens when the girl is alone


wonder why




Arles Celes said:


> Even sans that it would be super embarrassing lol. Like: "Look girls I'm an idiot do you find it hot and would you sleep with me?".
> 
> I guess the cat caller would need to be drunk..



they are sober, my Celes




Arles Celes said:


> .or do that to a girl whom he has known since childhood



bless your innocence


Arles Celes said:


> That said would said law work both ways? If a girl pulls off some cat calling of her own on some attractive guy will there be double standards or will both a male and female offender be equally punished?



of course

But would they guy be almost programmed  since childhood  to feel physically intimidated?

Better
can you picture me, a sober 50 yeas old matron, yelling to a yummy twenty something  guy while grabbing his ass

HEY STUDDDDDDDD, i´M MENOPAUSAL BUT FILL ME WITH YOUR BABBIESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

i WANNA RAPE YOUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU BLINDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

Or a grup of crazed  Uzumaki Karins all drooling over

HEY i WANNA LICL YOU ALL OVER PHWOARRRRRRR


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## Kisame3rd14 (Dec 11, 2021)

Arles Celes said:


> Hmmm, I wonder how guys have the courage to do that stuff in the middle of the street or in some store?


I think most of this thread has that same question. How dare a man be as bold to compliment a woman and ask for her number in a public setting!?


Arles Celes said:


> If the girl got her dad, boyfriend or male friend nearby it can lead to a brutal fight. The girl's female friends might also jump at the offender and not in a cute way.


Most well adjusted men wouldn’t care, so long as the stranger who made the advance wasn’t disrespectful or overly aggressive. Normal human beings who talk to women in public aren’t those from the horror stories of following women for blocks, making unwanted physical contact, or making vulgar statements.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Arles Celes (Dec 11, 2021)

Corvida said:


> can you picture me, a sober 50 yeas old matron, yelling to a yummy twenty something
> 
> HEY STUDDDDDDDD, i´M MENOPAUSAL BUT FILL ME WITH YOUR BABBIESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS
> 
> i WANNA RAPE YOUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU BLINDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD


Tbh I cannot imagine anyone who is not drunk doing that lol. 

At most saying some like that in a whisper: "Hi pretty/cute one" *wink*

Saying something like "Fine ass sweetcheeks" would get most guys slapped or laughed at. No need for law there unless the guy also turns out to be a stalker.

Reactions: Friendly 1


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## Corvida (Dec 11, 2021)

Kisame3rd14 said:


> I think most of this thread has that same question. How dare a man be as bold to compliment a woman and ask for her number in a public setting!?



No

the question is _why?_
what part of pestering is so hard to get?



Kisame3rd14 said:


> Most well adjusted men wouldn’t care, so long as the stranger who made the advance wasn’t disrespectful or overly aggressive. Normal human beings who talk to women in public aren’t those from the horror stories of following women for blocks, making unwanted physical contact, or making vulgar statements.


Funny

that horror story is the story of 4 out of 5 Spanish women story




Arles Celes said:


> Tbh I cannot imagine anyone who is not drunk doing that lol.



There are other situations, mainly involving deeply disturbing weirdos  or a sort of pack power dominance game


Arles Celes said:


> At most saying some like that in a whisper: "Hi pretty/cute one" *wink*
> 
> Saying something like "Fine ass sweetcheeks" would get most guys slapped or laughed at.


No  girl alone usually gets bold enough to go from a hard stare or a fukk you or simply leving quickly

the saddest thing is -most of the time guys gets bolder


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## Magic (Dec 11, 2021)

......................





Parallax said:


> The idea that you have to seriously engage a ludicrous and stupid opinion is exactly how we got into this mess.  No the fuck we don't have to cater to these ridiculously misogynistic arguments


But b-but the pyramid of debate....


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## Overwatch (Dec 11, 2021)

Good. At the very least, it's uncivil.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Kisame3rd14 (Dec 11, 2021)

Corvida said:


> the question is _why?_


Why ask for a woman’s number? Lol.


Corvida said:


> what part of pestering is so hard to get?


Asking a question isn’t pestering, pestering is continuing to make advances after the woman makes it clear she is not interested.


Corvida said:


> that horror story is the story of 4 out of 5 Spanish women story


Are we talking Spanish women in America or are we talking about women in Spain? Because I’m not sure what the hookup culture is like in Spain. Maybe there’s just more weirdos over there.


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## Death Certificate (Dec 11, 2021)

Yuji said:


> Oh no 3 women gave their stories about catcalling


They also post here and happen to be part of the community of this forum, but that doesn't matter when the argument of "winning" matters more than genuine empathy and understanding. It's also demeaning to dismiss their stories simply down to numbers when it takes one man to convince you that cat-calling isn't serious



Yuji said:


> how many videos and comments would you like me to give you of women telling you that men calling out to them isn't a big deal and comparing it to sexual harassment is pathetically hilarious?


Lol you are still downplaying cat-calling as "men calling them out" as if men are entitled to a women's attention. You have shown that understanding women's issues with cat-calling beyond just surface-level stuff of violent rape, isn't something you are willing to engage seriously. You wouldn't be posting videos that actually your stance, Nah just videos that wouldn't be out of place from an MGTOW website.

Reactions: Winner 1 | Friendly 1


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## Yuji (Dec 11, 2021)

Death Certificate said:


> They also post here and happen to be part of the community of this forum



And?



Death Certificate said:


> It's also demeaning to dismiss their stories simply down to numbers



So you're not interested in hearing other women's opinions if they disagree with your stance? You were the one who brought up numbers, '3 women', so your criteria is that women's opinions only matter when they post on this forum? Or is this another feelings argument?



Death Certificate said:


> as if men are entitled to a women's attention



You're the only one here who said that.



Death Certificate said:


> isn't something you are willing to engage seriously.



I'm not willing to seriously engage with your feelings only logical arguments, which you have yet to provide any. This was your big attempt on this thread


If you think this is an argument for anything I have bad news for you. Don't feel bad though, it's not just you it's pretty much everyone who has posted here backing up this proposed law.


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## reiatsuflow (Dec 11, 2021)

Catcalling was originally a term for the audience whistling disapprovingly at a theater show.

so


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Dec 11, 2021)

Yuji said:


> So you're not interested in hearing other women's opinions if they disagree with your stance? You were the one who brought up numbers, '3 women', so your criteria is that women's opinions only matter when they post on this forum? Or is this another feelings argument?


So because you can find some people who refute the claim means that for the people who spoke here it isn't a problem. That's a pretty fucking stupid standard when applied to anything else. 

"I've got full use of my legs, I don't know why all these buildings have ramps on them." 

"Doors should just be 5'9'' as that's enough for me to get through them, fuck anyone else. "

It's pretty telling that women react strongly to having a vital part of their reproductive rights stripped away in the US and some of these loons here act like the women are hysterical and a joke. 

Then someone threatens to make it so you can't shout at people in public and new sexual toward them out of the blue on the street or in shops and you would think the British Parliament threatened to go around and collect everyone's dick up.

Reactions: Funny 1 | Winner 1


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## Corvida (Dec 11, 2021)

Kisame3rd14 said:


> Why ask for a woman’s number?



Yes

why?

I´m not talking about meeting someone at a party  but in a  park, or a bus

why-the hostias  someone would feel entittled to ask for a  woman´s  telephone number _just because>?_


Kisame3rd14 said:


> Asking a question



oh no

its not asking for an address, or the time, or a shops location


Kisame3rd14 said:


> isn’t pestering, pestering is continuing to make advances after the woman makes it clear she is not interested.



or before

you dont "make advances" to an unknow woman that is passing in the street _just becasue_




Kisame3rd14 said:


> Are we talking Spanish women in America



no



Kisame3rd14 said:


> or are we talking about women in Spain?



those are the Spanish women  I am talking aboutv  ,yes.
as in a nationality, country and that sort of things



Kisame3rd14 said:


> Because I’m not sure what the hookup culture is like in Spain.


Again

THIS IS NOT HOOKNG UP
The pestering women in the street has nothing to do with that



Kisame3rd14 said:


> Maybe there’s just more weirdos over there.


no-its universal



yes, ist penalized in Spain


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## Pilaf (Dec 11, 2021)

Guys, if you're this upset you can't catcall women anymore you need better hobbies.

Reactions: Agree 2 | Winner 6


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## Eros (Dec 11, 2021)

Pilaf said:


> Guys, if you're this upset you can't catcall women anymore you need better hobbies.


They can still behave like that at a titty bar.


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## reiatsuflow (Dec 11, 2021)

Pilaf said:


> Guys, if you're this upset you can't catcall women anymore you need better hobbies.



are we not posting on narutoforums

Reactions: Funny 1 | Winner 2


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## Kisame3rd14 (Dec 11, 2021)

Corvida said:


> why-the hostias someone would feel entittled to ask for a woman´s telephone number _just because>?_


Entitled and asking are two completely different things.


Corvida said:


> oh no
> 
> its not asking for an adress, or the time.


Doesn’t matter, if I strike a conversation and you’re not interested then I walk off. There are many women that are interested in engaging with people in public. I met my first adult partner at a bus stop where she asked me a question about the schedule and then I proceeded to ask what her plans were for the weekend. We were fucking that weekend. Just because some people are afraid of public interaction doesn’t mean everyone else is. 


Corvida said:


> or before


No.


Corvida said:


> you dont "make advances" to an unknow woman that is passing in the street _just becasue_


I don’t, but single people do.


Corvida said:


> THIS IS NOT HOOKNG UP
> The pestering women in the street has nothing to do with that


The goal is to hookup, and like I said before there are normal woman who are find with public conversation.

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## Santoryu (Dec 11, 2021)

Corvida said:


> Yes
> 
> why?
> 
> I´m not talking about meeting someone at a party  but in a  park, or a bus



Apologies if there's more background to this, but morally speaking, why is it more virtuous to ask for a woman's number at a party than it is at a park? Cultural conventions? In many parts of the world; parties of this kind are severely frowned upon and asking for a number at a park is less egregious. Different places have different moral standards.

Perhaps the poster brought out a prescriptive response from you? Either way; if someone is polite about it, I don't see the issue.

If the person is a threat to a woman; he shouldn't be asking for the number; party or otherwise.


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## Pilaf (Dec 11, 2021)

Shinra Kusakabe said:


> They can still behave like that at a titty bar.



I mean, there's apps just for getting laid now. You can literally hook up with a woman looking for sex today, completely consensually, if you want 

Cat calling is for Boomers. Kinda cringe for anyone under 40 ngl

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Dec 11, 2021)

Corvida said:


> I´m not talking about meeting someone at a party  but in a  park, or a bus
> 
> 
> THIS IS NOT HOOKNG UP
> The pestering women in the street has nothing to do with that


I like how people are so eager to defend catcalling and don't even know what it is. 

And honestly, I don't even know if most women get mad when someone says something rather innocent or in surprise to them. I can't speak for them, but it definitely feels different when you bump into someone or look over at them and are just like "wow, your eyes are really beautiful" and you say nothing else of it versus this:

Reactions: Funny 1 | Optimistic 1


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## Corvida (Dec 11, 2021)

Kisame3rd14 said:


> Entitled and asking are two completely different things



Not in that kind of mentality

No, you cant harass unknow women in public espaces


Kisame3rd14 said:


> .
> 
> Doesn’t matter, if I strike a conversation and you’re not interested than I walk off. There are many women that are interested in engaging with people in public.



Sure.
But not in the way you think

and in public doesnt only mean abar or a cafeteria but walking down or up the street


Kisame3rd14 said:


> I met my first adult partner at a bus stop where she asked me a question about the schedule and then I asked her plans for the weekend



And you lucked.
cant you find the difference between asking about an schedule and being insulted, harassed or groped while walking in the street?




Kisame3rd14 said:


> . We were fucking that weekend


Fascinating

So you think girls  go to  bus stops to find fucking partners?


Kisame3rd14 said:


> . Just because some people are afraid of public interaction doesn’t mean everyone else is.


cant you find the diffeence between "public interaction" and   public harassing?



Kisame3rd14 said:


> If I can tell the person is uncomfortable than I back off, because that’s normal social interaction.



Do you know that most of the time normal social inteaction isnt limited to finding a date


Kisame3rd14 said:


> I don’t, but single people do.


So the only way single people have to find a partner is shouting obscenities , unwanted complimenhts or disturbing people walking in the street?
street harassment means street
even single women can be walking in the stree merely to go to their jobs, classes or buying groceries


Kisame3rd14 said:


> The goal is to hookup,



again

when a womna is walking in the street she is not always thiking about hooking up


Kisame3rd14 said:


> and like I said before there are normal woman who are find with public conversation.


public conversation doesnt mean _hooking up

street harassing isnt hooking up_

Reactions: Agree 1 | Friendly 1


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## Corvida (Dec 11, 2021)

Santoryu said:


> Apologies if there's more background to this, but morally speaking, why is it more virtuous to ask for a woman's number at a party than it is at a park?



Think a little
a party is a social gathering

a park is a public place when a woman can OMG sit alone becasue she has been buying books and she can even expect not to have vulturing around.




Santoryu said:


> Cultural conventions? In many parts of the world; parties of this kind are severely frowned upon and asking for a number at a park is less egregious. Different places have different moral standards.



See above




Santoryu said:


> Perhaps the poster brought out a prescriptive response from you? Either way; if someone is polite about it, I don't see the issue.



the issue is the word   _pestering_
That includes the opposite of being polite
as in invading personal espace, not minding signals of the victim getting umcomfortable and even insisting if said victim tries to walk out




Santoryu said:


> If the person is a threat to a woman; he shouldn't be asking for the number; party or otherwise.


the key is

pestering

Reactions: Lewd 1


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## Kisame3rd14 (Dec 11, 2021)

Corvida said:


> No, you cant harass unknow women in public espaces


giving a compliment and asking for a number isn’t harassment.


Corvida said:


> Sure.
> BVut not in the way you think
> 
> and in public doesnt only mean abar or a cafeteria but walkin g down the street


A woman walking down the street may be open to advances, not everyone is sweaty palmed and anxious at the thought of public interaction.


Corvida said:


> And you lucked.
> cant you find the difference between asking about an schedule and being insulted, harassed or groped while walking in the street?


Yes, that’s why I’m defending the former and not the latter


Corvida said:


> So you think girls go to bus stops to find fucking partners?


No, but I could see that particular woman was open to conversation which is why I made a move. 


Corvida said:


> cant you find the diffeence between "public interaction" and public harassing?


Yes, can you?


Corvida said:


> when a womna is walking in the street she is not always thiking about hooking up


Never said they were. All I have stated is that some women are open to being engaged with in public. Whether it’s at a bar or at a grocery, makes no difference to some.


Corvida said:


> public conversation doesnt mean _hooking up
> 
> stree harassing isnt hooking up_


Again, never said it was.

Reactions: Useful 1


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## Santoryu (Dec 11, 2021)

Corvida said:


> Think a little



I'd say the same to you as my post specifically excluded background information and referred to a section of your post and made no mention of pestering.

But if you're going to assume we're only talking about pestering.....



Corvida said:


> a party is a social gathering
> 
> a park is a public place when a woman can OMG sit alone becasue she has been buying books and she can even expect not to have vulturing around.



Ah

So pestering is okay at a social gathering? At a party?

Think a little.
See. I can be unnecessarily rude too.




Corvida said:


> See above
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I reckon you should also see above

Pestering, in my view, at a party shouldn't be acceptable


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## Eros (Dec 11, 2021)

Pilaf said:


> I mean, there's apps just for getting laid now. You can literally hook up with a woman looking for sex today, completely consensually, if you want
> 
> Cat calling is for Boomers. Kinda cringe for anyone under 40 ngl


Titty bars still exist though. Also, Gen X still exists. I'm considered both Gen X and Millennial, believe it or not, and I'm 39.


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## Death Certificate (Dec 11, 2021)

Yuji said:


> And?









Yuji said:


> So you're not interested in hearing other women's opinions if they disagree with your stance? You were the one who brought up numbers, '3 women', so your criteria is that women's opinions only matter when they post on this forum? Or is this another feelings argument?


If I spent arguing with a moron who couldn't comprehend the basics 1+1=2 for more than 9 pages and they said they have "tons" of videos that back their view, I shouldn't believe their videos are worth a damn just because they refuse to understand the most basic shit, much like how I am not bothered to watch videos dismissing cat-calling.

When was the last time you actually visited a topic about women in this section and could name more than 1 poster being a woman? 3 might not be a big number in a lot of things but it's actually over here.



Yuji said:


> You're the only one here who said that.



You should try reading arguments against the law, it's from a perspective of entitlement 




Yuji said:


> I'm not willing to seriously engage with your feelings only logical arguments, which you have yet to provide any. This was your big attempt on this thread


Hmm. I wonder why you didn't just quote me directly



Death Certificate said:


> At least try to read the OP
> 
> _Public sexual harassment, such as cat-calling and making sexually explicit comments, to be made an offence in wake of Sarah Everard murder_
> 
> ...



Oh, I see what you are doing. I guess "context" doesn't matter when pushing a misogynist agenda
Btw this was my main contribution to this thread




Death Certificate said:


> Yes Wayne used Covid laws to his advantage but that doesn't take away from the fact he's a rotten pile of shit
> 
> Why was Wayne Couzens known as ‘the rapist’? Origins of nickname of Sarah Everard’s killer explained​
> He was reportedly nicknamed ‘The Rapist’ by his colleagues as he made women feel uncomfortable
> ...


Explaining to people outside of the UK why this rape and murder case sparked outrage about women's safety within this country.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Kisame3rd14 (Dec 11, 2021)

Pilaf said:


> I mean, there's apps just for getting laid now. You can literally hook up with a woman looking for sex today, completely consensually, if you want
> 
> Cat calling is for Boomers. Kinda cringe for anyone under 40 ngl


Those same apps you’re praising have way more weirdos saying way more offensive shit than anything that happens in public. They literally have built in settings so your location can be sent to friends/family members because so much sexual abuse has gained traction from the anonymity that they provide. They’re the reason that us millennials have become afraid of in person interaction.


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## Pilaf (Dec 11, 2021)

Shinra Kusakabe said:


> Titty bars still exist though. Also, Gen X still exists. I'm considered both Gen X and Millennial, believe it or not, and I'm 39.



That's Gen X. I'm 37. There's not much practical difference but I'm properly classified as Gen Y 

Also titty bars are for Boomers. Imagine choosing to spend your time and money at a bar. Jesus.


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## Eros (Dec 11, 2021)

Pilaf said:


> That's Gen X. I'm 37. There's not much practical difference but I'm properly classified as Gen Y
> 
> Also titty bars are for Boomers. Imagine choosing to spend your time and money at a bar. Jesus.


Definitely not my idea of a Saturday night.


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Dec 11, 2021)

Pilaf said:


> That's Gen X. I'm 37. There's not much practical difference but I'm properly classified as Gen Y
> 
> Also titty bars are for Boomers. Imagine choosing to spend your time and money at a bar. Jesus.


While I've never been to one myself, I know Millennials who go to tiddy bars/strip clubs. People definitely still have a place for them.


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## Capt. Autismo (Dec 11, 2021)

Corvida said:


> Better
> can you picture me, a sober 50 yeas old matron, yelling to a yummy twenty something  guy while grabbing his ass


I've had a lot of little old lady's unconsensually grab my ass and comment on it.   

Quite a few hurtful things too, I do too have an ass Jessica....

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Capt. Autismo (Dec 11, 2021)

I'm torn on this subject, the girl I'm dating right now quit her old job because she was being asked out and made uncomfortable with sexual comments while working as a waitress everyday non-stop. I agree is shouldn't matter asking for a girls number and that that doesn't amount to pestering, but at the same time if you are being asked out 10+ times a day, that must just get exhausting.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Corvida (Dec 11, 2021)

Kisame3rd14 said:


> giving a compliment and asking for a number isn’t harassment.



it depends if its solicited ot not


Kisame3rd14 said:


> A woman walking down the street may be open to advances



this is really really shady

a woman walking in the street is not a hunting piece


Kisame3rd14 said:


> , not everyone is sweaty palmed and anxious at the thought of public interaction.



public interaction doesnt mean street harassment

But you can be harassed during a public interaction-specially if you are attending customer in a public service


Kisame3rd14 said:


> Yes, that’s why I’m defending the former and not the latter



and what is this thtread about

a chance meeting  and chattingat a bus stop or street harassment?




Kisame3rd14 said:


> No, but I could see that particular woman was open to conversation which is why I made a move.



congratulations

Now-agan-the thread is about  street harassment
which isnt neither about openness or convestations



Kisame3rd14 said:


> Yes, can you?



Oh but you see-I dont have tender stories of strking freiendships in bus stops
Can the vulturers, harassers and obscenity shouting people tell?


Kisame3rd14 said:


> Never said they were. All I have stated is that some women are open to being engaged with in public. Whether it’s at a bar or at a grocery, makes no difference to some.



and I´m saying again-can you tell the difference between being  open to being engaged and bing shouted, pestered gropued molested or pursued?



Kisame3rd14 said:


> Again, never said it was.


then, redefine the "being open to being engaged" thing


Santoryu said:


> I'd say the same to you as my post specifically excluded background information and referred to a section of your post and made no mention of pestering.



all my psts refer to pertering


Santoryu said:


> But if you're going to assume we're only talking about pestering.....


of course

with the infnite variations


Santoryu said:


> Ah


oh


Santoryu said:


> So pestering is okay at a social gathering? At a party?


well I dont know about the USA but in spain social gatherings are made to avoid pestering

The worst can happen if you happen to waksl alone in the stree after the social gathering

or having the silly idea of being alone in a park

women know that



Santoryu said:


> Think a little.
> See. I can be unnecessarily rude too.


dawww
you werent



Santoryu said:


> I reckon you should also see above



what for?
whay is stree harassment?



Santoryu said:


> Pestering, in my view, at a party shouldn't be acceptable


At least in Spain it isnt




Capt. Autismo said:


> I'm torn on this subject, the girl I'm dating right now quit her old job because she was being asked out and made uncomfortable with sexual comments while working as a waitress everyday non-stop.


Can you imagine how she had to feel, that she quit her job?

Now picture tha, being exposed to sexual cooments by simply by trying to walk in the street




Capt. Autismo said:


> I agree is shouldn't matter asking for a girls number and that that doesn't amount to pestering, but at the same time if you are being asked out 10+ times a day, that must just get exhausting.



thats starting to feel empathy!


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## Kisame3rd14 (Dec 11, 2021)

Corvida said:


> it depends if its solicited ot not


No, a man and a woman both have the ability to strike conversation to one another/the same sex out in public. It’s only a matter of the person receiving the compliments/comments is reciprocal does it make it acceptable. It does not have to be solicited by the receiver.


Corvida said:


> this is really really shady
> 
> a woman walking in the street is not a hunting piece


Nothing shady about it. As I’ve stated before, whoever comments first is entitled to as long as they are respectful. I’m not defending people making open sexual advances but a fair compliment is fine. Think, “hey how are you today, can I talk to you for a second?”, or “hey my name is such and such, are you busy” etc. I’m not talking about someone saying something derogatory like “nice rack” or “can I fuck you”.


Corvida said:


> a chance meeting and chattingat a bus stop or street harassment?


Last time I checked bus stops are on the street. So it all depends on what you consider harrasment.


Corvida said:


> Oh but you see-I dont have tender stories of strking freiendships in bus stops
> Can the vulturers, harassers and obscenity shouting people tell?


I’m not defending them.


Corvida said:


> then, redefine the "being open to being engaged" thing


In the past if I engaged a woman first it would usually be a compliment on something about her appearance, hair, clothing, tattoos, etc. So if I make that compliment and she reciprocated it with conversation then I know I have something to work with. If I go to open my mouth and she looks like she doesn’t want to make eye contact or just says thank you bashfully, then I shut down my advance. It’s not rocket science.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Yami Munesanzun (Dec 11, 2021)

Corvida said:


> Grandmama, my child


I shall refer to you as "Me-Maw"


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## Capt. Autismo (Dec 11, 2021)

Corvida said:


> thats starting to feel empathy!


Yeah definitely, so, how you doing today? Can I get your number?

Reactions: Funny 3


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## Kisame3rd14 (Dec 11, 2021)

Capt. Autismo said:


> Yeah definitely, so, how you doing today? Can I get your number?


That’s illegal

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 3


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## creyzi4zb12 (Dec 11, 2021)

~Avant~ said:


> Literally do any research on statistics for single mother households. Ranging between 60%-80%, if you’re raised in a single mother household you’re more likely to have teen pregnancy, high school drop outs, mental disorder, more likely to have abused drugs, to go to jail, to attempt suicide, to commit suicide, more likely to get the shit end of society’s stick.
> 
> That’s just a fact. You’re all welcome to seek the research out for yourselves. We need to stop putting innocent men in jails, we should fix the laws so that men aren’t left destitute paying child support or alimony, teach our boys healthier ways to channel their aggression, and more appropriate ways of courting women. We need to take relationships and sex seriously again instead of treating it as something casual or exchangeable for profit. Somethings SHOULD remain sacred.
> 
> ...



I call bullshit.
Backup your claims using your research and don’t let others do the research for you. Most people who spewed the “do research on this” facade that I knew turned out to be lying.

Also, its your responsibility to back up your claim using your research. Your points sound lazy and too much of a stretch, or just based plainly conservative opinions.

Put up a link or something. Make a summary to a void tldr posts. Or get called a liar and get a report.


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## Corvida (Dec 11, 2021)

Kisame3rd14 said:


> No, a man and a woman both have the ability to strike conversation to one another/the same sex out in public



yes, I know

A conversation


Kisame3rd14 said:


> . It’s only a matter of the person receiving the compliments/comments is reciprocal does it make it acceptable. It does not have to be solicited by the receiver.



It doesnt have to be solicited by the receiver


But the compliment, if and when it comes, should come afterthe conversation has been going on

it s not like going to buy  fish and hearing

HEY TITTAIS

LOOKI HERE!!!




Kisame3rd14 said:


> Nothing shady about it. As I’ve stated before, whoever comments first is entitled to as long as they are respectful



and that´s precisely what stree harassment isnt

HEY,DAT ASS, i WOULD MAKE YOU A SALIVE DRESS!!!


Kisame3rd14 said:


> . I’m not defending people making open sexual advances but a fair compliment is fine.



you speak of clasy flirting wich is of course cute
I speak of the noble art of make a woman feel like shit when she happens to be in the street


Kisame3rd14 said:


> Think, “hey how are you today, can I talk to you for a second?”, or “hey my name is such and such, are you busy” etc. I’m not talking about someone saying something derogatory like “nice rack” or “can I fuck you”.


and specially, just like that and without further introduction
which is the theme of the thread and what is spoken of being outlawed, as it is in Spain




Kisame3rd14 said:


> Last time I checked bus stops are on the street. So it all depends on what you consider harrasment.


One must read the situation

in a bus stop , ar least in Spain, you always end up having small talk and chatting with all sort of people-specially becasue you are sometimes forced to eb there, waiting and making time.
A different sitation than  feeling threatened while walking oin the street-in Madrid in my time and even now by what I read in the nespaper, youhad to really avoid walking around cretain places and bulding inj construction




Kisame3rd14 said:


> I’m not defending them.
> 
> In the past if I engaged a woman first it would usually be a compliment on something about her appearance, hair, clothing, tattoos, etc. So if I make that compliment and she reciprocated it with conversation then I know I have something to work with



I give  you this-at least, you are openly flirting and wai to see if it works

Its what in Spain we called "entering"
The comments you could get were hilaruios-"girl, I was in whenever.. and this guy entered me"


Kisame3rd14 said:


> . If I go to open my mouth and she looks like she doesn’t want to make eye contact or just says thank you bashfully, then I shut down my advance. It’s not rocket science.


exactly

and if a woman is walkin g in thes trre and 3  cromagnons yell

TITTTTIESSS

the gir reactin will be either giving the finger or run like hell if the place is secure and open

bad business if you get cornered

the poor girl that ended with her face smashed in San Sebastian had an ordeal like that


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## Kisame3rd14 (Dec 11, 2021)

Corvida said:


> yes, I know
> 
> A conversation
> 
> ...


It’s clear that we had a misunderstanding, I don’t defend ridiculous sexual advances just common speak that leads to the possibility of a phone number exchange and a possible hookup. Good chat.

Reactions: Friendly 1


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## Pilaf (Dec 11, 2021)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> While I've never been to one myself, I know Millennials who go to tiddy bars/strip clubs. People definitely still have a place for them.



Nah. Souls of Boomers. Boomer lite. Diet Boomer. Only one calorie. Not Boomer enough.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Corvida (Dec 11, 2021)

Capt. Autismo said:


> Yeah definitely, so, how you doing today? Can I get your number?


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## Kitsune (Dec 11, 2021)

When I used to work downtown the bums would catcall and it was actually kind of scary. They seemed either drunk/on drugs or insane. Then when I’d ignore them they’d get mad and start jeering. I dealt with this on a daily basis and hated walking from my car to the office. Catcalling to this degree should definitely be considered harassment and be made illegal. When you can’t even walk around in public without being bothered it’s gone too far.

Reactions: Winner 4


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## reiatsuflow (Dec 11, 2021)

Even though I don't travel outside of the americas I hear spain still has a pretty macho culture.

Which is probably why their politicians would never think to pass a law like this.


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## Corvida (Dec 11, 2021)

Kitsune said:


> When I used to work downtown the bums would catcall and it was actually kind of scary. They seemed either drunk/on drugs or insane. Then when I’d ignore them they’d get mad and start jeering. I dealt with this on a daily basis and hated walking from my car to the office. Catcalling to this degree should definitely be considered harassment and be made illegal*. When you can’t even walk around in public without being bothered it’s gone too far.*


BINGO


reiatsuflow said:


> Even though I don't travel outside of the americas I hear spain still has a pretty macho culture.



More or less


reiatsuflow said:


> Which is probably why their politicians would never think to pass a law like this.


oh but they did

thats what I´ve being telling the whole thread

Reactions: Friendly 1


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## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Dec 11, 2021)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> If a gay dude came up to me and said yes Zaddy you have a nice ass and you look like you know how to use that rod of yours to, do you want your dick sucked?
> 
> I would be like



I'd actually beat him up ngl. This is where I empathize.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Son of Goku (Dec 11, 2021)



Reactions: Funny 3


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## reiatsuflow (Dec 11, 2021)

Kitsune said:


> When I used to work downtown the bums would catcall and it was actually kind of scary. They seemed either drunk/on drugs or insane. Then when I’d ignore them they’d get mad and start jeering. I dealt with this on a daily basis and hated walking from my car to the office. Catcalling to this degree should definitely be considered harassment and be made illegal. When you can’t even walk around in public without being bothered it’s gone too far.



I don't know where you hail from but in many U.S. cities we can't even arrest the homeless for sleeping on the sidewalk, bothering people, starting fights, urinating, defecating, setting up tents, so good luck.

If a feminist angle is the way through that barrier of permissive gobbledygook then I'm all for it, but judging by the blowback Andrew Yang got for trying to lean on his wife being punched in the face by some mentally ill homeless guy I don't think there's any way through.



Corvida said:


> oh but they did
> 
> thats what I´ve being telling the whole thread



I googled before I posted just in case but only bumped into articles extolling the problems of catcalling in spain. If they did pass a law, did it work?

Reactions: Friendly 1


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## Corvida (Dec 11, 2021)

reiatsuflow said:


> I googled before I posted just in case but only bumped into articles extolling the problems of catcalling in spain. If they did pass a law, did it work?


well

I dont think so




The fokkin virus helped...by forcing young people to stay at home

so young people came from confinement particularly.....rabid ,atacking the police during the summer and with cases like the poor girls I´m always mentioning-the "lets break that pretty face" of Vitoria-not San Sebastian, sorry- is particularly text book hunting-gathering harassing-getting angry

edit-but at least it helped to define street harassment and even dictated legal penalties-a fine or community services

ahem


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Dec 11, 2021)

Charlotte D. Kurisu said:


> I'd actually beat him up ngl. This is where I empathize.



As long as im not touched i will take the compliment im a attention whore at heart

Reactions: Funny 1 | Informative 1


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## Kitsune (Dec 11, 2021)

reiatsuflow said:


> I don't know where you hail from but in many U.S. cities we can't even arrest the homeless for sleeping on the sidewalk, bothering people, starting fights, urinating, defecating, setting up tents, so good luck.
> 
> If a feminist angle is the way through that barrier of permissive gobbledygook then I'm all for it, but judging by the blowback Andrew Yang got for trying to lean on his wife being punched in the face by some mentally ill homeless guy I don't think there's any way through.



I’m in the US and yeah it’s a problem. I’ve seen an innocent bystander get punched in the face by a bum. That said, aggressive catcalling isn’t exclusive to bums.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## ~Avant~ (Dec 11, 2021)

Canute87 said:


> Similar punishment.
> 
> Besides if i'm to be honest I don't see any reason why a random woman would point to an average man just to get him locked up for no reason.


All I’ve been saying is that the Law should be implemented with safeguards to prevent abuse. I don’t know how that’s even a controversial thing to say.


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## ~Avant~ (Dec 11, 2021)

Parallax said:


> Lmao he really thinks he's telling us to peep game omg


Has your way of thinking been working for anyone?


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## ~Avant~ (Dec 11, 2021)

Gin said:


> You’re all just a bunch of loud noises and reaction memes. Nearsighted bandaid solutions that don’t address the root causes to the ailments of society and just the symptoms derived from those causes.
> 
> Not a single compelling argument or point of view from anyone. You all just to ridicule someone’s voice but don’t offer your own to bringing any semblance of credence to why you think we’re wrong.
> 
> I care about these things, and I take these things seriously. You all need to wake up and start taking them seriously too. Have you all learned nothing? If you have a different point of view to mine, share it. Make it a discussion, bring a fucking solution.


If you want to suck my dixk just say that, no need to be so subtle.


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## ~Avant~ (Dec 11, 2021)

Corvida said:


> Yes
> 
> "calling out" my cojones
> 
> ...


So do you want a world where women are always the ones who make the first move?


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## ~Avant~ (Dec 11, 2021)

Corvida said:


> "calling out"
> 
> This is revolting
> 
> ...


Maybe not to you. But you can’t speak to everyone’s experience.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 1 | Disagree 1


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## Kitsune (Dec 11, 2021)

~Avant~ said:


> So do you want a world where women are always the ones who make the first move?



Making the first move does not equal shouting at women in the streets.

Reactions: Winner 5


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## Canute87 (Dec 11, 2021)

Kitsune said:


> Making the first move does not equal shouting at women in the streets.


Let them holla at you

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Dec 11, 2021)

Kitsune said:


> Making the first move does not equal shouting at women in the streets.


I would honestly like to see a survey of how many times random guy shouted at me resulted in even a positive response, let alone a date or sex or anything else.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Corvida (Dec 11, 2021)

~Avant~ said:


> So do you want a world where women are


allowed to feel safe walking in the streets without being pestered , shouted obscenities, followed, pursued or made to feel ashamed?
  or worse?

Yes



Kitsune said:


> Making the first move does not equal shouting at women in the streets.


And judging from the thread, it seems not enough millenia have passed to let the idea sink in

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Capt. Autismo (Dec 11, 2021)

Kisame3rd14 said:


> That’s illegal


What are you, a fucking cop?


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## Kisame3rd14 (Dec 11, 2021)

Capt. Autismo said:


> What are you, a fucking cop?


No I’m the echo of this chamber.


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## ~Avant~ (Dec 11, 2021)

Kitsune said:


> Making the first move does not equal shouting at women in the streets.


Because getting DM’d dick pics is so much better


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## ~Avant~ (Dec 11, 2021)

Corvida said:


> allowed to feel safe walking in the streets without being pestered , shouted obscenities, followed, pursued or made to feel ashamed?
> or worse?



Honestly the Muslims had it right with the hijabs. They’re not tools of oppression, they’re tools of protection. We can make evil men go away every where, it’s up to the women to protect herself by decreasing the likelihood that a guy will harass her. Hijabs were a great idea for this.
l


Corvida said:


> Yes
> 
> 
> And judging from the thread, it seems not enough millenia have passed to let the idea sink in

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 1 | Disagree 1 | Dislike 1


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## ~Avant~ (Dec 11, 2021)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> I would honestly like to see a survey of how many times random guy shouted at me resulted in even a positive response, let alone a date or sex or anything else.


Doesn’t mean they should be punished by the state for it.


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## Kitsune (Dec 11, 2021)

~Avant~ said:


> Because getting DM’d dick pics is so much better



How about neither?


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## Kitsune (Dec 11, 2021)

~Avant~ said:


> Honestly the Muslims had it right with the hijabs. They’re not tools of oppression, they’re tools of protection. We can make evil men go away every where, it’s up to the women to protect herself by decreasing the likelihood that a guy will harass her. Hijabs were a great idea for this.

Reactions: Agree 2 | Funny 2


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## ~Avant~ (Dec 11, 2021)

Kitsune said:


> How about neither?


Except so long as evil exists, men will continue to commit it. Even if you made it so that 90% of all men didn’t cat call, that’s still a shit ton of men who would.

The law can only do so much. The rest falls on to the individuals shoulders.


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Dec 11, 2021)

~Avant~ said:


> Doesn’t mean they should be punished by the state for it.


This sounds like some of that Libertarian bullshit about how the government shouldn't do anything ever except let citizens run wild and problems will just sort themselves out.


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## ~Avant~ (Dec 11, 2021)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> This sounds like some of that Libertarian bullshit about how the government shouldn't do anything ever except let citizens run wild and problems will just sort themselves out.


Man, it’s almost like you don’t know how to counter my points so you just mischaracterize everything I say on purpose.


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## Eros (Dec 11, 2021)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> This sounds like some of that Libertarian bullshit about how the government shouldn't do anything ever except let citizens run wild and problems will just sort themselves out.


Basically.


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## ~Avant~ (Dec 11, 2021)

Shinra Kusakabe said:


> Basically.


First, fuck the government, both the democrats and the republicans.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Bazu'aal (Dec 11, 2021)

If only the womens didnt exist, then this wouldnt be an issue fam.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Eros (Dec 11, 2021)

~Avant~ said:


> First, fuck the government, both the democrats and the republicans.


It's not even the US government doing this. It's the UK government. So, if your issue is a deep hatred of republican government and a preference for monarchy, I have bad news for you.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## ~Avant~ (Dec 11, 2021)

Shinra Kusakabe said:


> It's not even the US government doing this. It's the UK government. So, if your issue is a deep hatred of republican government and a preference for monarchy, I have bad news for you.


They’re both systems of government that have done nothing to actually fix the world. They’re just money machines to keep the rich and powerful more rich and powerful.

That’s why I detest government and believe that people should take up more responsibility and treat their lives with a degree of more seriousness. Because maybe once that happens we can decide that these systems and bodies of government just don’t work anymore and we can renegotiate the terms.

But until we can take ourselves seriously, why should they?

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Dec 11, 2021)

~Avant~ said:


> They’re both systems of government that have done nothing to actually fix the world. They’re just money machines to keep the rich and powerful more rich and powerful.
> 
> That’s why I detest government and believe that people should take up more responsibility and treat their lives with a degree of more seriousness. Because maybe once that happens we can decide that these systems and bodies of government just don’t work anymore and we can renegotiate the terms.
> 
> But until we can take ourselves seriously, why should they?


That all sounds good and well, but without government to see to the day to day things going on around us, provide money for research and grants, and facilitate growth and see to people's protection we likely would still be living in company towns.


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## Jim (Dec 11, 2021)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> That all sounds good and well, but without government to see to the day to day things going on around us, provide money for research and grants, and facilitate growth and see to people's protection we likely would still be living in company towns.


50 cents per hour! that's much better than the other company!
the other company is paying lower you say? We could increase profits that way!!


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## Eros (Dec 11, 2021)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> That all sounds good and well, but without government to see to the day to day things going on around us, provide money for research and grants, and facilitate growth and see to people's protection we likely would still be living in company towns.


I don’t like that either. Pass.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## ~Avant~ (Dec 11, 2021)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> That all sounds good and well, but without government to see to the day to day things going on around us, provide money for research and grants, and facilitate growth and see to people's protection we likely would still be living in company towns.


We can have Government where it’s needed. Such as providing universal healthcare, providing housing, providing money for food. We do need a safety net. None of those evils should exist if we want to move humanity towards its next step.

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Mintaka (Dec 11, 2021)

~Avant~ said:


> We can have Government where it’s needed. Such as providing universal healthcare, providing housing, providing money for food. We do need a safety net. None of those evils should exist if we want to move humanity towards its next step.




So first it's "I detest government" and now it's "Well they can give me my wishlist"?  Do you have a solid position on this?

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Eros (Dec 11, 2021)

Mintaka said:


> So first it's "I detest government" and now it's "Well they can give me my wishlist"?  Do you have a solid position on this?


I think he's a libertarian socialist. I am not 100% sure though.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Parallax (Dec 11, 2021)

~Avant~ said:


> Has your way of thinking been working for anyone?


Yes


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## Parallax (Dec 11, 2021)

~Avant~ said:


> Honestly the Muslims had it right with the hijabs. They’re not tools of oppression, they’re tools of protection. We can make evil men go away every where, it’s up to the women to protect herself by decreasing the likelihood that a guy will harass her. Hijabs were a great idea for this.
> l


Lolololololol

Reactions: Agree 2 | Optimistic 1


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Dec 11, 2021)

~Avant~ said:


> Honestly the Muslims had it right with the hijabs. They’re not tools of oppression, they’re tools of protection. We can make evil men go away every where, it’s up to the women to protect herself by decreasing the likelihood that a guy will harass her. Hijabs were a great idea for this.


Women still get harassed and bothered while wearing them...

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Eros (Dec 11, 2021)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Women still get harassed and bothered while wearing them...


Yeah, especially in Western nations.

Reactions: Like 1 | Disagree 1


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## creyzi4zb12 (Dec 11, 2021)

Shinra Kusakabe said:


> Yeah, especially in Western nations.


Worst countries for wOmen

Syria and Afghanistan

3.Yemen

4.Pakistan

5. Central African Republic

6. Democratic Republic of Congo

7. Iraq

8. Mali

9. Sudan

10. Niger

*And the best:*

1. Iceland

2. Norway

3. Switzerland

4. Slovenia

5. Spain

6. Finland

7. Canada, Netherlands and Sweden

10. Belgium, Singpore

===
Notice how most countries on the worst part includes countries which promote the hijab, and the best part are western countries? Yet people keep screaming the opposite?


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## creyzi4zb12 (Dec 12, 2021)

~Avant~ said:


> Honestly the Muslims had it right with the hijabs. They’re not tools of oppression, they’re tools of protection. We can make evil men go away every where, it’s up to the women to protect herself by decreasing the likelihood that a guy will harass her. Hijabs were a great idea for this.
> l



They also had “marry your rapist” laws, which you prolly think they got right as well considering that you’re not a fan of single moms.


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## Bazu'aal (Dec 12, 2021)

Shinra Kusakabe said:


> I think he's a libertarian socialist. I am not 100% sure though.


Hey man friendly fire wtf. I'm one of those!

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Amol (Dec 12, 2021)

- _Catcalling is freedom of speech !!!_
- _A woman walking down the street may be open to advances.
- Woman should have her dad check up the man before having sex.
- Women are responsible for failing society unlike good old times._

Jesus we have some serious numbers of misogynists and incels on this forum. They actually think that people should actually take their diarrhea seriously here. It is like Alex Jones whining why nobody takes him seriously.

If anybody ever needed to understand why this law was necessary then he only has to read this thread. This thread very much proves that just how many degenerates are out there who thinks catcalling is their God given right or something.

Some genuinely wierd creepy fucks tbh.

Reactions: Agree 3 | Funny 1 | Winner 1


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## Corvida (Dec 12, 2021)

~Avant~ said:


> Honestly the Muslims had it right with the hijabs.



this is trolling of the grossest kind


~Avant~ said:


> They’re not tools of oppression,



Dont get me started


~Avant~ said:


> they’re tools of protection.



agaisnt beasts?
Becasue the way you put  thats what men are, then

beasts in heat


~Avant~ said:


> We can make evil men go away every where, it’s up to the women to protect herself by decreasing the likelihood that a guy will harass her.



of course

blame the woman  and the length of the skirt

blame the woman for going where she shoudnt or going alone or looking at he beast to the eyes

oldest rape apology ever


if only the damrned women didnt insist in going to the street, or in talking to anyone not husband or male realtive



~Avant~ said:


> Hijabs were a great idea for this.


Dressing women as table cloths never really protected them

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Amol (Dec 12, 2021)

Avant thinks women get raped because they show skin.

Why anybody still wasting their time with this weirdo and creepo ?

As far as he is considered, it is always women's fault. He is a dumb troll who hates women. Fucking ignore his troll bitch ass.

Reactions: Agree 3


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## Dragon D. Luffy (Dec 12, 2021)

~Avant~ said:


> Honestly the Muslims had it right with the hijabs. They’re not tools of oppression, they’re tools of protection. We can make evil men go away every where, it’s up to the women to protect herself by decreasing the likelihood that a guy will harass her. Hijabs were a great idea for this.



Sounds to me like you are the one confessing something about yourself.

I don't need women to be covered with hijabs not to harass them. Do you?

Reactions: Funny 1 | Winner 4


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## ~Avant~ (Dec 12, 2021)

creyzi4zb12 said:


> They also had “marry your rapist” laws, which you prolly think they got right as well considering that you’re not a fan of single moms.


Is that what I fucking said? All I said was the hijabs were a good idea in concept. It’s like you people live in such polarities, the possibility for nuance completely escapes you.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## ~Avant~ (Dec 12, 2021)

Dragon D. Luffy said:


> Sounds to me like you are the one confessing something about yourself.
> 
> I don't need women to be covered with hijabs not to harass them. Do you?


I don’t. But, I can’t speak for every man.

Even if 95% person of all men stopped cat calling, that 5% of men is still a large number.  I’m speaking to the effectiveness of that law and people being able to be accountable for protecting themselves from that 5% of men who would do harm.


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## Dragon D. Luffy (Dec 12, 2021)

~Avant~ said:


> I don’t. But, I can’t speak for every man.
> 
> Even if 95% person of all men stopped cat calling, that 5% of men is still a large number.  I’m speaking to the effectiveness of that law and people being able to be accountable for protecting themselves from that 5% of men who would do harm.



And you think making every woman in the world cover their bodies is more effective than punishing the few men who harass women (assuming it's just 5% like you say)?

I mean, if it's just so few men who are bad, I think it's much easier to arrest the few bad apples than impose a behavior change in the entire female population, don't you agree?

Reactions: Agree 1 | Winner 5 | Useful 1


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## ~Avant~ (Dec 12, 2021)

Dragon D. Luffy said:


> And you think making every woman in the world cover their bodies is more effective than punishing the few men who harass women (assuming it's just 5% like you say)?



Your focus is on punishing the perpetrator, my focus is on preventing any victims.


Dragon D. Luffy said:


> I mean, if it's just so few men who are bad, I think it's much easier to arrest the few bad apples than impose a behavior change in the entire female population, don't you agree?


I said the hijabs were a good idea, not that they needed to be imposed onto women. But maybe a cultural paradigm shift would be nice, the past 20 years most people still associate hijabs with terrorism, if we started to view them as fashionable and for women’s protection, it would make wearing them more socially acceptable. So when a women knows she’s wearing something that might attract unwanted attention, she can put on the hijab until she gets to where she needs to be.

I doubt any of the victims would want to exist in that 5%.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Dragon D. Luffy (Dec 12, 2021)

The cultural shift should happen, yes. And it should be towards raising boys to learn that they are not supposed to be predators or catcall women in the streets. We need to fix the way we raise boys so they stop becoming predators, not fix women's culture so they cover themselves.

It's the aggressors that need fixing, not the victims.

Reactions: Winner 4


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## Corvida (Dec 12, 2021)

~Avant~ said:


> Your focus is on punishing the perpetrator, my focus is on preventing any victims.



by covering them with tablecloths
Not even preventing them from leaving home with out a sacred male or fobidding them to talk to non related sacred males would do

you PUNISH THE VICTIMS instead of the_ beasts_



~Avant~ said:


> I said the hijabs were a good idea,


yes-instil women _modesty_ and show them their place

out of malestreet


~Avant~ said:


> not that they needed to be imposed onto women. But maybe a cultural paradigm shift would be nice,


no thank you+
it took centuries to shifting the cultural paradigm for  women stop being considered domestic pets


~Avant~ said:


> the past 20 years most people still associate hijabs with terrorism, if we started to view them as fashionable and for women’s protection



women protection is karate for them and education for men


~Avant~ said:


> , it would make wearing them more socially acceptable. So when a women knows she’s wearing something that might attract unwanted attention,




BEEEP BEEP BEEP

shame the victim mentality

men as beasts in perpetual heat alert

what is _provocative?_

hair?

ankles?

    arms?



OMg

WOMEN HAVE LEGS!



~Avant~ said:


> she can put on the hijab until she gets to where she needs to be.



Locked at home with the leg broken as the old spanish sayuing puts

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 1


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## reiatsuflow (Dec 12, 2021)

The contention here is most of us don't live somewhere that criminalizes being an asshole in public, even in extreme situations, short of physical violence. And also the incident that apparently caused this new law had nothing to do with catcalling women but with a police officer abusing his authority to wrongfully approach, detain and rape and murder someone.

super solid contention


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## Death Certificate (Dec 12, 2021)

reiatsuflow said:


> The contention here is most of us don't live somewhere that criminalizes being an asshole in public, even in extreme situations, short of physical violence.



Cat-calling isn't being an asshole in public, it is literally listed within street harassment and I hardly give a shit about posters who act like America's problems are normal



reiatsuflow said:


> And also the incident that apparently caused this new law had nothing to do with catcalling women but with a police officer abusing his authority to wrongfully approach, detain and rape and murder someone.
> 
> super solid contention


 Amazing you are like the third or fourth poster who tried to downplay Wayne Cozuenz history of sexual harassment

Yes Wayne used Covid laws to his advantage but that doesn't take away from the fact he's a rotten pile of shit

Why was Wayne Couzens known as ‘the rapist’? Origins of nickname of Sarah Everard’s killer explained​
He was reportedly nicknamed ‘The Rapist’ by his colleagues as he made women feel uncomfortable



> Why was Wayne Couzens nicknamed ‘The Rapist’?​He was reportedly nicknamed “The Rapist” by his colleagues as he made women feel uncomfortable.
> 
> He was reportedly given the monicker by colleagues at the Civil Nuclear Constabulary – his job prior to the Metropolitan Police – because he made female colleagues feel uncomfortable.
> 
> ...

Reactions: Winner 2


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## Yuji (Dec 12, 2021)

Death Certificate said:


> Cat-calling isn't being an asshole in public, it is literally listed within street harassment and I hardly give a shit about posters who act like America's problems are normal
> 
> 
> Amazing you are like the third or fourth poster who tried to downplay Wayne Cozuenz history of sexual harassment
> ...



If only there was a law against cat calling this guy wouldn't have raped and murdered this girl.


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## ~Avant~ (Dec 12, 2021)

Corvida said:


> by covering them with tablecloths
> Not even preventing them from leaving home with out a sacred male or fobidding them to talk to non related sacred males would do


Okay. So what’s your solution? You want all men to transcend their primal urges and thinking. Which would be great, but again, even if 95% of all men did that, that’s still a lot of men perpetrating crimes. Whuch



Corvida said:


> you PUNISH THE VICTIMS instead of the_ beasts_


How is telling people to protect themselves a punishment?


Corvida said:


> yes-instil women _modesty_ and show them their place


Is that what I said? 


Corvida said:


> out of malestreet
> 
> no thank you+
> it took centuries to shifting the cultural paradigm for  women stop being considered domestic pets
> ...



Lmao, you really think karate is gonna protect women from getting cat called or raped? 


Corvida said:


> BEEEP BEEP BEEP
> 
> shame the victim mentality
> 
> ...


When you dress like a stripper. There’s an entire fashion and beauty industry, where the trends change and fade but you know what’s provocative when you see it. Stop acting like you live under a rock.

A woman should be able to wear whatever she wants I agree. But so long as evil men exist, men who won’t and don’t want to change, then women will always be at risk.

The best way to handle that risk, beyond what the law can achieve, is by taking personal responsibility over your safety. 




Corvida said:


> Locked at home with the leg broken as the old spanish sayuing puts


 What?

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Jim (Dec 12, 2021)

Yuji said:


> If only there was a law against cat calling this guy wouldn't have raped and murdered this girl.


indeed, being in prison before meeting said girl would make raping her more difficult.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Funny 2


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## Death Certificate (Dec 12, 2021)

~Avant~ said:


> When you dress like a stripper. There’s an entire fashion and beauty industry, where the trends change and fade but you know what’s provocative when you see it. Stop acting like you live under a rock.


Any man that rapes women based on what they dress or whatever skin is shown is a fucking animal that can't control themselves. Fuck off with this 12th-century rape apology shite

Reactions: Like 2 | Winner 3


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## Corvida (Dec 12, 2021)

~Avant~ said:


> Okay. So what’s your solution?



you write it next paragraph


~Avant~ said:


> You want all men to transcend their primal urges



fUCKING YES

what  are men, horny gorillas that cannot " trascend their primal urges"?

men like this?




This beast was provoked




to kidnap, rape and kill his neighbour after beating her with a hammer for almost an hour

he was provoked

Laura wasnt covered with a tablecloth, you know

that could have saved her according to you


~Avant~ said:


> and thinking. Which would be great, but again, even if 95% of all men did that, that’s still a lot of men perpetrating crimes



let them pay for their crimes then


~Avant~ said:


> How is telling people to protect themselves a punishment?



Becasue you idea of women prptecting themselves is....covering them?

Like hostias thats a protection , to start with


~Avant~ said:


> Is that what I said?



yes

victim blamin g has been done for centuries

Didnd t stop  women being harassed, raped and murdered in any history time


~Avant~ said:


> Lmao, you really think karate is gonna protect women from getting cat called or raped?



I can tell you for sure a hiyab, a burka or even a Spanish mantilla wont protect shit

a good kicking in the balls, on the other hand...

spray is good, too


~Avant~ said:


> When you dress like a stripper.



victim blaming

STOP the victim blaming

NO MATTER HOW A WOMAN DRESS

males have dictated what consisted in "dressing like strippers" for centuries, anyway

women have beena assaulted raped and murdered even covering in  a full curtain


~Avant~ said:


> There’s an entire fashion and beauty industry, where the trends change and fade but you know what’s provocative when you see it




No

the concept of something being "provocative"  has been chaging when women took control of their bodies

Dont blame the woman for any man behaving like a beast becasue the concept of "I was provoked"  is rancid and done to death

beasts are always provoked



~Avant~ said:


> . Stop acting like you live under a rock.



thats your plan for women

you only care to appease the australophytecus robustus hovering over there


~Avant~ said:


> A woman should be able to wear whatever she wants I agree



Dont even question it


~Avant~ said:


> . But so long as evil men exist, men who won’t and don’t want to change, then women will always be at risk.


yes. So....
punish the beasts
Dont think that the Hide your womez solution is going to work


~Avant~ said:


> The best way to handle that risk, beyond what the law can achieve, is by taking personal responsibility over your safety.



A woman is  NOT responsible for being attacked, harassed, raped or murdered

the beast are



~Avant~ said:


> What?


what?

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Mider T (Dec 12, 2021)

My my my what's happened here?


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## reiatsuflow (Dec 12, 2021)

Death Certificate said:


> Amazing you are like the third or fourth poster who tried to downplay Wayne Cozuenz history of sexual harassment
> 
> Yes Wayne used Covid laws to his advantage but that doesn't take away from the fact he's a rotten pile of shit
> 
> ...



We've been over this already, that's not the contention.

The worst thing about this story is that a woman was raped and killed by a police officer.

The second worst thing is the officer abused his authority to detain the woman so he could rape and kill her.

The third worst thing is how the officer abused his authority inappropriately on numerous other occasions and his coworkers looked the other way.

Making it criminal for civilians to catcall women is an abstraction of that and has about as much causation for the rape and murder of Everard as violent videogames do to school shooters.

Reactions: Like 1


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## reiatsuflow (Dec 12, 2021)

And DC you often complain about police abusing their power and you seem suspicious of cops, why be supportive about a law that gives police more excuses to arrest you? Do I have to racialize this to switch your critical brain on? What if a ((white woman)) accuses a ((black man)) of catcalling her just because he gives her a compliment? 
 

Qualifying "harassment" is tough. Look at internet harassment laws, they're imperfect and that's with the internet having a paper trail for everything we do. The real world would be even more sketchy. 

I'm all for bars throwing out patrons who are harassing other customers, but bars can already do that.


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## Yuji (Dec 12, 2021)

reiatsuflow said:


> Making it criminal for civilians to catcall women is an abstraction of that and has about as much causation for the rape and murder of Everard as violent videogames do to school shooters.



Even less than that since catcalling/rape are barely even remotely linked. At least with video games you're actually playing a guy shooting someone, with catcalling there are varying degrees, not everyone reacts to it the same (some women don't care or enjoy the attention and some hate it), and it's an entirely non-violent act.

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## reiatsuflow (Dec 12, 2021)

Yuji said:


> Even less than that since catcalling/rape are barely even remotely linked. At least with video games you're actually playing a guy shooting someone, with catcalling there are varying degrees, not everyone reacts to it the same (some women don't care or enjoy the attention and some hate it), and it's an entirely non-violent act.



I've actually come around on violence in media maybe having an impact on these things so I'm about to get myself tangled up  

But as with violence in videogames having any link with violence in society, I think agreeing with that just means you have conversations about it and start up a dialogue. Not outlaw violent videogames. Same with men being rude or aggressive with women in public spaces.


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## Magic (Dec 12, 2021)

creyzi4zb12 said:


> Worst countries for wOmen
> 
> Syria and Afghanistan
> 
> ...


Wait you trying to say, suppressing people and treating women like objects that need to be at home hidden is a bad thing!?



Amol said:


> - _Catcalling is freedom of speech !!!_
> - _A woman walking down the street may be open to advances.
> - Woman should have her dad check up the man before having sex.
> - Women are responsible for failing society unlike good old times._
> ...


Sign of the times. Notice it's the same mofos who are online 24/7 debating it. As if they have any stake in the issue. Mofo doesn't even talk to women.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 1


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## Corvida (Dec 12, 2021)

reiatsuflow said:


> . Same with men being rude or aggressive with women in public spaces.


Really?

Are  you all compleely sure   men used to be _rude  and aggresive_ with women in public spaces have nothing to do with further violence?


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## ~Avant~ (Dec 12, 2021)

Corvida said:


> Really?
> 
> Are  you all compleely sure   men used to be _rude  and aggresive_ with women in public spaces have nothing to do with further violence?


Studies shows that you’re more likely to be killed or raped by someone you know than by a complete stranger. So I would say so.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


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## Death Certificate (Dec 12, 2021)

reiatsuflow said:


> We've been over this already, that's not the contention.


Who's we? It ain't the women in this thread that nor the other men in this thread who understand why cat-calling isn't harmless. 

What resonates with a lot of women, in this case, is that men like Wayne are given the kid's glove treatment their history of sexual harassment until it escalates into rape and murder, when they should have been cautioned or jailed prior.


reiatsuflow said:


> The worst thing about this story is that a woman was raped and killed by a police officer.
> 
> The second worst thing is the officer abused his authority to detain the woman so he could rape and kill her.
> 
> *The third worst thing is how the officer abused his authority inappropriately on numerous other occasions and his coworkers looked the other way.*



The thing that you and others who get outraged about this new bill, often miss that sexual harassment is a lot more than physical touching.

Many times rapists like Wayne, often get away with inappropriate comments about a women's body part and sexual acts because to guys like you "*that's a compliment*" or pestering them when it's clearly obvious the woman isn't interested simply because they are trying to walk home or wait for a bus/train.

That's not even getting into how it's never just one guy who try this shit with them today or during the week, that range can flip flop between singles to double-digit.

The most overlooked thing that comes with cat-calling is...



Death Certificate said:


> Probably. *Most women are cat-called at a very young age.*



Now you could probably write that off as most of those guys being pedos but that would overlook the fundamental problem with cat-calling being that it's not a form of flirtation or romance, it's complete sexual objectification without a women's consent. Making it easy for guys who don't think about a women's wellbeing when cat-calling, to end up doing that shit to little girls and teenagers.

Billie Eilish wasn't wearing baggy clothes for a gimmick

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 1


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## Death Certificate (Dec 12, 2021)

reiatsuflow said:


> And DC you often complain about police abusing their power and you seem suspicious of cops


Not without reason, and often point out that they get paid to state-sanctioned troops in cop uniform



reiatsuflow said:


> why be supportive about a law that gives police more excuses to arrest you?


Personally, I have never used cat-calling to talk to women. Considering that I have been stopped, searched and arrested for shit I never did. It wouldn't make much of a difference other than confirm cops would rather fuck around than do their job properly. 



reiatsuflow said:


> Do I have to racialize this to switch your critical brain on?


This sentence is completely redundant because you end up making a racialized example



reiatsuflow said:


> What if a ((white woman)) accuses a ((black man)) of catcalling her just because* he gives her a compliment?*


I don't feel like repeating myself twice, so I am just going, to sum up, a lot shorter. Women love compliments, what they don't like is cat-calling because it's never a compliment they asked for, and the majority of the time is often shouted or pestering when a woman just wants to be left alone.

Plus someone else tried using Emmett Till lynching, forgetting that Till was lynched by a racist mob, not the state. (Plus nobody went to jail for that shit)



reiatsuflow said:


> Qualifying "harassment" is tough


It's "tough" when you rather pigeonhole hole meaning of Harassment.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Corvida (Dec 12, 2021)

~Avant~ said:


> Studies shows that you’re more likely to be killed or raped by someone you know than by a complete stranger. So I would say so.



wish you could say to the Alcasser girls-dodnt read in detail what was done to them


to Rocío, victim of a brit tourist specialized in girl killing

3 girls dead in Spain after said fucker scaping  sexual assault charges in Britain



  to Diana

oh hi, friend called "el chicle"
caught  red handed when he was kidnapping_ another completely unknown girl_

after having killed Diana



to Laura


new intown






to the Vitoria face smashed girl



or to the girl who has had to be operated four times to be reconstructed downside

Studies says four out of five girls in Spain are street  harassed before they are 25

There is a reason Spanish women demanded, before effing virus, the right to simply be able to practice running without being...killed

edit-and of course, RIP Sarah. Someone simply felt like it-was nicnamed the rapist, but....

Reactions: Agree 1 | Winner 2 | Informative 1


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## ~Avant~ (Dec 12, 2021)

Sorry to hear that. I mean, these things happen. The law can only do so much, “rehabilitating” men will only do so much, women covering up will only do so much. Evil will persist no matter what we do.

Reactions: Funny 1 | Friendly 1


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Dec 12, 2021)

Yuji said:


> If only there was a law against cat calling this guy wouldn't have raped and murdered this girl.


If only the "good cops" had done something about their buddy who they had nicknamed Rapist before and he hadn't, at the very least, been able to hide behind a badge.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Winner 1


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## reiatsuflow (Dec 12, 2021)




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## Orochibuto (Dec 13, 2021)

Amol said:


> Orochibuto talks in classic case of men believing themselves as the real victim.



Spectacular ad hominem, zero relevance to the points I presented.



Amol said:


> The argument looking for nonsensical imaginary extreme case just to make this whole thing ridiculous is ridiculous itself.



It is not nonsensical imagery. We are not talking about social attitudes, but a fucking law. Those are important questions to answer 

Can the law be abused or not? Will the wording be specific to objectively punish a specific conduct or be left vague so that it can work on anything a woman subjectively claims is harassmemt? Will the law be gender neutral or will it punish a gender while allowing the other gender to freely engage in the punished conduct? How will a law that will likely rely 100% on testimony in a lot of cases be enforceable?

This is holding your government accountable 101, this type of questioning should be applied to every law by the way.

The government is not your friend, your "representatives" hardly do such. A criminal law is the government justifying getting violent with citizens. So yes, you better make sure there is no room for abuse everytime the government wants to give itself more power to use violence on citizens.



Amol said:


> Obviously saying Hi is not cat calling. Like how do you reach to that stupid level of argument?
> That is defination of trying too hard to appease your victim mentality.



Yes, what is cat calling is logical. But we are not talking about logic, we are talking about politicians and law, which are often the furthest thing from logic.

If you are going to criminalize speech, in this case catcalling, you need to write down specifically how you are going to define catcalling or broad terms like "pestering"

Be broad and amiguous enough and yes, saying "hi" could be considered "catcalling". All you need is some wording like "whenever a woman feels harassed". Logical reality =/= legal reality.




Amol said:


> Catcalling is not paying compliments to women.



Who said it was?




Amol said:


> If this law make someone here uncomfortable, it honestly speaks more about their twisted character. Maybe this person should try to stop being a pig. He then won't have anything to worry about.



Havent you considered that maybe it is not that people have a problem with what this law aims to prevent and more with how ripe for abuse this law can be?

Havent you considered maybe some people have, as a matter of principle, a problem with the state limiting speech? With the state getting physically violent with citizens over WORDS even if they personally dislike catcalling?

You are here arguing "either you support this law, or you are a pig", which is a logical fallacy.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 1 | Dislike 1


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## GRIMMM (Dec 13, 2021)

SOOOO many self-reports in this thread. Holy shit.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Corvida (Dec 13, 2021)

Orochibuto said:


> Spectacular ad hominem, zero relevance to the points I presented.



and true


Orochibuto said:


> It is not nonsensical imagery. We are not talking about social attitudes, but a fucking law. Those are important questions to answer
> 
> Can the law be abused or not?




every law can be abused

that doesnt make it less needed


Orochibuto said:


> Will the wording be specific to objectively punish a specific conduct or be left vague so that it can work on anything a woman subjectively claims is harassmemt?



what are you so afraid of?


Orochibuto said:


> Will the law be gender neutral or will it punish a gender while allowing the other gender to freely engage in the punished conduct?



how many women you see harassing men on the street?


Orochibuto said:


> Havent you considered maybe some people have, as a matter of principle, a problem with the state limiting speech?


this isnt limiting speech
is limiting harassment

if there is no law, then the fact of 90 percent of people doing nothing when a woman is harassed, insulted or worse, as it happened in Spain can start to change

Reactions: Informative 1


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## reiatsuflow (Dec 13, 2021)

Corvida said:


> how many women you see harassing men on the street?



This isn't going to worm around oro's point.

For the sake of argument how many women do you see murdering people, men account for _96%_ of murderers, that's arguably the same proportion spread they account for catcalls. We don't genderize/racialize/target criminal law on proportionality. I mean, the UK apparently does, but mostly we don't.


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## reiatsuflow (Dec 13, 2021)

How many women are exhibitionists exposing themselves in public? 99% of exhibitionists are men, let's make it a crime for men and only men to expose themselves to people instead of just criminalize exhibitionism.

I still feel like I'm taking crazy pills.


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## Corvida (Dec 13, 2021)

reiatsuflow said:


> This isn't going to worm around oro's point.



why the United nations felt they had to develop a program about safer cities for girls?


reiatsuflow said:


> For the sake of argument how many women do you see murdering people, men account for _96%_ of murderers, that's arguably the same proportion spread they account for catcalls.



How many women you see street harassing   unknown men?

I only want to know that


reiatsuflow said:


> We don't genderize/racialize/target criminal law on proportionality. I mean, the UK apparently does, but mostly we don't.


Spain does in things like abuse- and that puts Oro in permanent alas poor men rage mode


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## Corvida (Dec 13, 2021)

reiatsuflow said:


> How many women are exhibitionists exposing themselves in public?



or worse-wanking




reiatsuflow said:


> 99% of exhibitionists are men,



I know

we had a resident one in out student residence


reiatsuflow said:


> let's make it a crime for men and only men to expose themselves to people instead of just criminalize exhibitionism.




what I want to know is why the internation program was called safer cities for girls and when speaking os street harasment they put a



girl?

Mind the oddenss

why it was see as an specific  international  problem-while any man or woman can be simply get arrested for disturbing the public order?


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## Xelioszzapporro (Dec 13, 2021)

Corvida said:


> How many women you see street harassing unknown men?



You bring a good point to the table.

It should be extremely rare I would imagine. The only time I personally saw a female harassing a male was when I was in the bus one time.
She seemed to be under drug use because she was insulting a guy in his 30s for no apparent reason and screaming. The guy got mad but didn't hit her just called her words. Some people calmed them down after a period of time. 

Other than that in youtube I saw some road rage with a female and a random guy. It indeed seems very rare to happen.
The reasons why it is rare could vary? I think? Why do you think it happens?


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## reiatsuflow (Dec 13, 2021)

Corvida said:


> Spain does in things like abuse- and that puts Oro in permanent alas poor men rage mode





Corvida said:


> we had a resident one in out student residence
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Oro's point isn't that these things don't happen more to women than men, his concern is around genderizing criminal law.

Just to reframe the separation, I genderize violence and my society genderizes violence and I think that's fine. I'm not the person who thinks men and women are the same and a woman hitting a man is the same as a man hitting a woman. That's not what oro's saying either. But there's a big difference between me making that distinction, or even a judge making that distinction when trying a case about a 250 pound man hitting a 100 pound woman - and that distinction being written into law. Criminalizing catcalling would still protect women just like criminalizing domestic abuse still protects women even though the language of the law doesn't genderize the crime.

Now we do have laws that target age ranges i.e. child abuse, elder abuse, so maybe there's more gray area here than I'm thinking, but also children and the elderly are already separated from society (none of us have child coworkers) so it's easier to write separate protections for them and elder abuse is primarily around nursing homes and caretaking / dependency issues.

Reactions: Friendly 1


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## Corvida (Dec 13, 2021)

Xelioszzapporro said:


> You bring a good point to the table.
> 
> It should be extremely rare I would imagine. The only time I personally saw a female harassing a male was when I was in the bus one time.
> She seemed to be under drug use because she was insulting a guy in his 30s for no apparent reason and screaming. The guy got mad but didn't hit her just called her words. Some people calmed them down after a period of time.



and in Spain that nuts would be immediatly take in custody

Or, being milder, as it happened in my very home tow with a very drunk guy, the very driver stopped and  made the guy get off the bus-it was epic


Xelioszzapporro said:


> Other than that in youtube I saw some road rage with a female and a random guy. It indeed seems very rare to happen.
> The reasons why it is rare could vary? I think? Why do you think it happens?



While a woman can get mad while arguing,  drunk, mentally umbalanced or drugged-or worse-raging for lack of,  that is a public order problem
the art of"catcalling". hooting  jeering shouting obscenities or worse-following and intimidating women-is a very gendered problem

Reactions: Friendly 1


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## Corvida (Dec 13, 2021)

reiatsuflow said:


> Oro's point isn't that these things don't happen more to women than men, his concern is around genderizing criminal law.
> 
> Just to reframe the separation, I genderize violence and my society genderizes violence and I think that's fine.



Exactly

Beasue as I told in the post above-its agende specific problem linked, like it or now, with violence against women


reiatsuflow said:


> Now we do have laws that target age ranges i.e. child abuse, elder abuse, so maybe there's more gray area here than I'm thinking, but also children and the elderly are already separated from society (none of us have child coworkers) so it's easier to write separate protections for them and elder abuse is primarily around nursing homes and caretaking / dependency issues.


thats is an ecellent point.-beasue of course there are specific plans for child protection and trying to stop specific child abuse-from ANY adult.
thats law based on age range dealing with a specific problem-child abuse
I dont know if there are specific laws to protect elderly people but I could bet for sure even follwing normal criminal law, many woman are implicated as  they are typical caretakers


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## Yuji (Dec 13, 2021)

Corvida said:


> Beasue as I told in the post above-its agende specific problem linked



Incorrect, just because you said something it doesn't make it true.



Corvida said:


> linked, like it or now, with violence against women



Also incorrect, as it has been pointed out to you you are many times more likely to be raped and/or murdered by people you know, not because someone catcalled to you. No evidence to show it's linked with violence.

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## Parallax (Dec 13, 2021)

reiatsuflow said:


> Oro's point isn't that these things don't happen more to women than men, his concern is around genderizing criminal law.
> 
> Just to reframe the separation, I genderize violence and my society genderizes violence and I think that's fine. I'm not the person who thinks men and women are the same and a woman hitting a man is the same as a man hitting a woman. That's not what oro's saying either. But there's a big difference between me making that distinction, or even a judge making that distinction when trying a case about a 250 pound man hitting a 100 pound woman - and that distinction being written into law. Criminalizing catcalling would still protect women just like criminalizing domestic abuse still protects women even though the language of the law doesn't genderize the crime.
> 
> Now we do have laws that target age ranges i.e. child abuse, elder abuse, so maybe there's more gray area here than I'm thinking, but also children and the elderly are already separated from society (none of us have child coworkers) so it's easier to write separate protections for them and elder abuse is primarily around nursing homes and caretaking / dependency issues.



This is why u get no bitches

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Corvida (Dec 13, 2021)

Yuji said:


> Incorrect, just because you said something it doesn't make it true.



I´m not the one saying its agender specific problem linked with sexual violence-its the fuckling United Nations

look at the pretty pics






Yuji said:


> Also incorrect, as it has been pointed out to you you are many times more likely to be raped and/or murdered by people you know,




Tell that to Miriam, Toñ and i Desiree- Rocío wanninkof,Sonia Carabantes, little Alex, Diana Quer, Laura Luelmo or the very Sarah Everard
oh and you know where´s little Maddie?
we´re not speaking  onlyof domestic violence but of women being able to go runing to the park or come from a party and come back not raped and alive

Or like the  cae of the woman from Vitoria.not to have his face smashed becasue lets break that pretty face  after being jeered

report​By AFP
February 20, 2021



VIENNA: A huge majority of young European women limit where they go or who they spend time with for fear of assault or harassment, according to a report published on Friday by an EU agency.

“Shockingly, 83 percent of women aged between 16 and 29 limit where they go or who they spend time with to protect themselves,” the report from the Vienna-based Fundamental Rights Agency (FRA) said.
The figure was one of the findings in a FRA report on victims’ experiences of crime, based on surveys completed by almost 35,000 people across the EU, as well as in the UK and North Macedonia. “We see that the experience of harassment of a sexual nature, which specifically has an impact on women, often happens in public spaces involving perpetrators that women don’t know,” report author Sami Nevala told AFP.




Yuji said:


> not because someone catcalled to you


street harassing  
learn the fucking term

and why the Unite Nation speak of public secutity for women


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## Yuji (Dec 13, 2021)

Corvida said:


> I´m not the one saying its agender specific problem linked with sexual violence-its the fuckling United Nations



No it's you who has been repeating this misinformation throughout this thread, and you're wrong. Are you so sexist that you think women are incapable of catcalling? Would you like me to show you many videos of it happening? Just say the word.



Corvida said:


> Tell that to Miriam, Toñ and i Desiree- Rocío wanninkof,Sonia Carabantes, little Alex, Diana Quer, Laura Luelmo or the very Sarah Everard
> oh and you know where´s little Maddie?



Were those people catcalled to death?



Corvida said:


> but of women being able to go runing to the park or come from a party and come back not raped and alive



Given how many millions of women achieve this astounding feat on a daily basis I think we can stop there with your misinformation.

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## Eros (Dec 13, 2021)

Samus Aran said:


> Hey man friendly fire wtf. I'm one of those!


It can be taken to an extreme in case you didn't know.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Corvida (Dec 13, 2021)

Yuji said:


> No it's you who has been repeating this misinformation



Not me

blam the Unuted Nation, Associated Press or every Spanish media


Yuji said:


> throughout this thread, and you're wrong



street harasment is a recognized problem






Yuji said:


> . Are you so sexist that you think women are incapable of catcalling?






Yuji said:


> Would you like me to show you many videos of it happening? Just say the word.







Yuji said:


> Were those people catcalled to death?



Alexandra Park, a green expanse in the English coastal town of Hastings, is sprawling and lovely. It has wooded areas and several ponds, as well as two long, wide paths which weave around gently sloping lawns, gardens, trees and even a miniature railway track. It has just about anything a parkgoer could want – except lights, security cameras and other safety equipment.

The park’s focus on urban wildlife means that the area is dark at night. But violent incidents can take place even during the day, as Kay Early knows all too well. In June 2020, she was walking her dog when a man started following her, then punched her repeatedly in the face.











						How to design safer cities for women
					

Thoughtful, inclusive urban design can make streets safer for women – something that has multiple benefits.




					www.bbc.com
				










Yuji said:


> Given how many millions of women achieve this astounding feat on a daily basis I think we can stop there with your misinformation.


report​By AFP
February 20, 2021



VIENNA: A huge majority of young European women limit where they go or who they spend time with for fear of assault or harassment, according to a report published on Friday by an EU agency.

“Shockingly, 83 percent of women aged between 16 and 29 limit where they go or who they spend time with to protect themselves,” the report from the Vienna-based Fundamental Rights Agency (FRA) said.
The figure was one of the findings in a FRA report on victims’ experiences of crime, based on surveys completed by almost 35,000 people across the EU, as well as in the UK and North Macedonia. “We see that the experience of harassment of a sexual nature, which specifically has an impact on women, often happens in public spaces involving perpetrators that women don’t know,” report author Sami Nevala told AFP.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Eros (Dec 13, 2021)

reiatsuflow said:


> How many women are exhibitionists exposing themselves in public? 99% of exhibitionists are men, let's make it a crime for men and only men to expose themselves to people instead of just criminalize exhibitionism.
> 
> I still feel like I'm taking crazy pills.


How many men do I see running shirtless and sweaty with their muscles glistening. Do I weird them out by telling them how fucking hot they are and telling them I want to bend them over and...? No. It's not appropriate to treat people that way.


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## Jim (Dec 13, 2021)

Shinra Kusakabe said:


> How many men do I see running shirtless and sweaty with their muscles glistening. Do I weird them out by telling them how fucking hot they are and telling them I want to bend them over and...? No. It's not appropriate to treat people that way.


you're disobeying your god given duty then 
j/k


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## Eros (Dec 13, 2021)

Jim said:


> you're disobeying your god given duty then
> j/k

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Yuji (Dec 13, 2021)

Corvida said:


> Not me
> 
> blam the Unuted Nation, Associated Press or every Spanish media
> 
> ...



So is that a yes or a no on would you like to see videos of women catcalling? Responding with a random picture really isn't an answer




Corvida said:


> The park’s focus on urban wildlife means that the area is dark at night. But violent incidents can take place even during the day, as Kay Early knows all too well. In June 2020, she was walking her dog when a man started following her, then punched her repeatedly in the face.



Did he catcall her while he was punching her?



Corvida said:


> VIENNA: A huge majority of young European women limit where they go or who they spend time with for fear of assault or harassment, according to a report published on Friday by an EU agency.



Are you a bot or something? I'm reminded of those youtube bots that continue to post the same thing after you answered them



Yuji said:


> Given how many millions of women achieve this astounding feat on a daily basis I think we can stop there with your misinformation.


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## Death Certificate (Dec 13, 2021)

Shinra Kusakabe said:


> No. It's not appropriate to treat people that way.



It's unfucking believable that people who defend cat-calling refuse to understand something this basic

Reactions: Agree 1 | Winner 1


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## Corvida (Dec 13, 2021)

Yuji said:


> So is that a yes or a no on would you like to see videos of women catcalling? Responding with a random picture really isn't an answer







Yuji said:


> Did he catcall her while he was punching her?







Yuji said:


> Are you a bot or something? I'm reminded of those youtube bots that continue to post the same thing after you answered them

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Jim (Dec 13, 2021)

Yuji said:


> Did he catcall her while he was punching her?


You're right, since violence against women continues despite laws against it, we should remove all laws that prohibit it too.
j/k

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 2 | Winner 3


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## Bazu'aal (Dec 13, 2021)

Shinra Kusakabe said:


> It can be taken to an extreme in case you didn't know.


Bruh leave me and Noam Chomsky alone.

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## Orochibuto (Dec 13, 2021)

Parallax said:


> This is why u get no bitches



I find it very telling that lot of the replies questioning these laws are actual arguments.

While most of the responses of the people strongly supporting these laws are to those replies are downvotes, ad hominems, and sarcasm.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 1 | Dislike 1


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## Bazu'aal (Dec 13, 2021)

Curse you @Jim

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## Corvida (Dec 13, 2021)

Orochibuto said:


> I find it very telling that lot of the replies questioning these laws are actual arguments.
> 
> While most of the responses of the people strongly supporting these laws are to those replies are downvotes, ad hominems, and sarcasm.


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## Eros (Dec 13, 2021)

Samus Aran said:


> Bruh leave me and Noam Chomsky alone.


You think Chomsky is the only one?


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## Bazu'aal (Dec 13, 2021)

Shinra Kusakabe said:


> You think Chomsky is the only one?


Y u ignore me in that post. I'm one of those things too.


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## Orochibuto (Dec 13, 2021)

A gender problem existing does not justify violating fundamental rights and law discrimination. It is not difficult to understand.

Or to put it in popular terms: the ends do not justify the means.


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## Corvida (Dec 13, 2021)

Orochibuto said:


> A gender problem existing



it does

and all over the world  as you can see


Orochibuto said:


> does not justify violating fundamental rights



But thats the thing

Hooting , insulting , pursuing , jeering, touching is not a fundamental right

Mexico did even a better campaign that the Sevilla zoo, and no irony


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## Orochibuto (Dec 13, 2021)

Corvida said:


> Hooting , insulting , pursuing , jeering, touching is not a fundamental right



Not taking in count the speech issue, you are right it is not.

You know what is a fundamental right? Equality under the law. And no, it doesnt get voided by proportionality.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Dec 13, 2021)

Parallax said:


> This is why u get no bitches



Don't get tricked @reiatsuflow save up your money bro and just take a trip to Brazil. Easy picking down there. You can get the most beautiful women on the planet for 50 bucks


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## Corvida (Dec 13, 2021)

Orochibuto said:


> Not taking in count the speech issue, you are right it is not.



But there are verbal aggressions

you know-when the guy gets angry if you dodnt look at star with the  PUTA, ESTRECHA, THE VOY A PARTIR LA CARA

the last  menace was made literal to that poor woman of Vitoria


Orochibuto said:


> You know what is a fundamental right? Equality under the law.


And thats why laws like this are needed

wait

you think men are beign discriminated against in the Mexico safe city campaign?




no words

Becasue the guys who collaborated in this deserve a medal-they dared to make themselves memes


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## Parallax (Dec 13, 2021)

Orochibuto said:


> I find it very telling that lot of the replies questioning these laws are actual arguments.
> 
> While most of the responses of the people strongly supporting these laws are to those replies are downvotes, ad hominems, and sarcasm.


This is why u get no bitches

Reactions: Funny 1


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## reiatsuflow (Dec 13, 2021)

Careful para or we'll criminalize calling women bitches.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## reiatsuflow (Dec 13, 2021)

Also I do so have a girlfriend she just lives in canada and that's why you've never met her.

Reactions: Funny 1 | Neutral 1


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## Eros (Dec 13, 2021)

Samus Aran said:


> Y u ignore me in that post. I'm one of those things too.


My point is that politics is a spectrum. Chomsky, in my opinion, is fairly reasonable. Some libertarian socialists are not reasonable at all.


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## creyzi4zb12 (Dec 13, 2021)

The ironic thing is that most people who are against catcalling on this thread are also the ones who defend the catcaller if he’s a poc.

I mean, when a white Karen has a meltdown and calls the cops on a black dude pestering her, I guess it’s no longer ok right?

As long as the catcaller is white, it’s ok for it to be illegal.

Reactions: Optimistic 2


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## Corvida (Dec 13, 2021)

creyzi4zb12 said:


> The ironic thing is that most people who are against catcalling on this thread are also the ones who defend the catcaller if he’s a poc.



wha?



creyzi4zb12 said:


> I mean, when a white Karen has a meltdown and calls the cops on a black dude pestering her, I guess it’s no longer ok right?
> 
> As long as the catcaller is white, it’s ok for it to be illegal.


WHAT?

Reactions: Agree 3 | Funny 1


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## Gin (Dec 13, 2021)

this still going

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 1


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## Corvida (Dec 13, 2021)

Gin said:


> this still going


And with a twist

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Mintaka (Dec 13, 2021)

Orochibuto said:


> Not taking in count the speech issue, you are right it is not.
> 
> You know what is a fundamental right? Equality under the law. And no, it doesnt get voided by proportionality.


Then that's stupid.

If you're not going to take into consideration mitigating circumstances that might make this situation unique then you've failed at actual justice.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Eros (Dec 13, 2021)

creyzi4zb12 said:


> The ironic thing is that most people who are against catcalling on this thread are also the ones who defend the catcaller if he’s a poc.


Nice try. Let's go with no.

Reactions: Agree 2 | Winner 1


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## Death Certificate (Dec 13, 2021)

I honestly question how some of you people function in the real world when something as simple as cat-calling has people go off wild tangents of freedom of speech, covid conspiracy theories, rape apology, not able to understand what an actual compliment is, misogynist attitudes and now reverse racism.

Reactions: Agree 2 | Winner 1


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## Eros (Dec 13, 2021)

Death Certificate said:


> I honestly question how some of you people function in the real world when something as simple as cat-calling has people go off wild tangents of freedom of speech, covid conspiracy theories, rape apology, not able to understand what an actual compliment is, misogynist attitudes and now reverse racism.


I don't think women care about the race of the guy hitting on them or whether there is a pandemic going on or not. Yelling, "Nice tits!" on the street is creepy.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Yuji (Dec 13, 2021)

Death Certificate said:


> I honestly question how some of you people function in the real world when something as simple as cat-calling has people go off wild tangents of freedom of speech, covid conspiracy theories, rape apology, not able to understand what an actual compliment is, misogynist attitudes and now reverse racism.



Do you know how to construct an argument or better yet even a single sentence without resorting to straw man/ad hominem positions?

People have asked for a straightforward, logical reason why such a law needs to be made. The best you were able to muster was 'sarah everet was raped therefore we need a catcalling law'. Or even worse your boy is in here talking about how women didn't used to have bank accounts so we need a catcalling law 

We don't accept that 3rd grade reasoning as a logical argument, it's not difficult to understand.

Reactions: Funny 1 | Optimistic 1 | Dislike 5


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## Orochibuto (Dec 13, 2021)

Mintaka said:


> Then that's stupid.
> 
> If you're not going to take into consideration mitigating circumstances that might make this situation unique then you've failed at actual justice.



There is no "mitigating circumstance" that justify violating a fundamental human right. There is no mitigating circumstance that justify creating a crime for only one sex but allowing the other sex to engage in that conduct without punishment, I am not buying this. This is objectively creating 1st and 2nd class citizens.



Death Certificate said:


> I honestly question how some of you people function in the real world when something as simple as cat-calling has people go off wild tangents of freedom of speech, covid conspiracy theories, rape apology, not able to understand what an actual compliment is, misogynist attitudes and now reverse racism.



No one here (I think) is defending catcalling. I don't like it, I think it creates problems for both men and women and I never engage in it as I feel it is disrespecting myself.

You can have problems with this law and not be in favor of catcalling, it is not a hard concept to understand. It isn't a "you either agree or you like this shit" situation.

Reactions: Funny 1 | Disagree 1 | Dislike 1


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## Death Certificate (Dec 13, 2021)

Shinra Kusakabe said:


> I don't think women care about the race of the guy hitting on them or whether there is a pandemic going on or not. Yelling, "Nice tits!" on the street is creepy.


According to some people, that's a good compliment and a woman shouldn't be offended .



Orochibuto said:


> There is no "mitigating circumstance" that justify violating a fundamental human right.


...cat-calling is a fundamental human right? Do you even understand what the fuck you are talking about?

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 1 | Winner 1


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## Eros (Dec 13, 2021)

Orochibuto said:


> There is no "mitigating circumstance" that justify violating a fundamental human right. There is no mitigating circumstance that justify creating a crime for only one sex but allowing the other sex to engage in that conduct without punishment, I am not buying this. This is objectively creating 1st and 2nd class citizens.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The legislature in your country might one day decide on similar legislation. The UK is not the first, and it won't be the last. Women are standing up for themselves more than ever. This will continue whether you agree or not. They have had enough.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Orochibuto (Dec 13, 2021)

Death Certificate said:


> ...cat-calling is a fundamental human right? Do you even understand what the fuck you are talking about?



Who said it was?! Who? Don't be obtuse did you even read what I was replying to? I am talking about equality under the law being a fundamental human right.


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## Corvida (Dec 13, 2021)

Yuji said:


> People have asked for a straightforward, logical reason why such a law needs to be made.


and you are were asked with campaigns already organized and the majoroty of young women all over the world hating walking alone


Yuji said:


> People have asked for a straightforward, logical reason why such a law needs to be made. The best you were able to muster was 'sarah everet was raped


and strangled with a belt
har har har

and Laura Luelmo was raped and hammred for 75 minutes  until strangled


and Diana Quer
her last known location was a kilometre from home, at around 2:50 am. Among her final  messages were to a friend from Madrid: "I'm freaking out, a gypsy was calling for me...[He was saying] 'brown-haired girl, come over here'"

assaulted and strangled


wa-I see a pattern


or Rocío wanninkoff

T-shirts were torn by the stabs, and no clothes from the waist down were ever found. The  confirmed that it was indeed Wanninkhof's body, and also revealed that she had been beaten first, then stabbed once in the left section of the chest, likely when she tried to flee. This stab was the most damaging, as it affected several organs and . As a result, Wanninkhof became instantly paralyzed or unconscious, and her death was quick. Once on the ground, she was stabbed eight more times on a small area of the back, in quick succession, with the likely aim of ensuring her death. The wounds were all caused by the same weapon: a thin, single-edged razor

or Sonia Carabantes-same guy 37 lessions from beating before being strangled with her own t shirt

or Toñi, Myriam and Desiree
the men drove past the nightclub and the girls began to scream, Anglés  them with a  handgun. They headed to a crumbling abandoned house near a place known as , in a very isolated and mountainous area close to the  dam, where two of the girls were . Afterwards, they went to  in search of some food, after which they raped the third girl two hours later. After being  for the remainder of the night, the girls were made to walk to a pit the men had previously dug and were assaulted further. According to the , Hernández suffered a traumatic amputation of the right  and  with a sharp object, and was then stabbed twice in the back. The other girls were beaten with sticks and stones, before finally being shot and buried. García's corpse displayed  wounds caused by an object provided with sharp edges, possibly produced .


or what aboiu the Vitoria girl of  amomth ago? lets break that pretty face, as he was cornered and jeered at?



Orochibuto said:


> There is no "mitigating circumstance" that justify violating a fundamental human right.


street assaultor harassment  is NOT a fundamental human right

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Mintaka (Dec 13, 2021)

Orochibuto said:


> There is no "mitigating circumstance" that justify violating a fundamental human right. There is no mitigating circumstance that justify creating a crime for only one sex but allowing the other sex to engage in that conduct without punishment, I am not buying this. This is objectively creating 1st and 2nd class citizens.


Objectively?

In what reality?

First of all guilty criminals, aren't citizens.  Second I didn't mean they shouldn't be punished when they do it, what I meant was this is disproportionally a male on female crime.  To ignore that is foolish, and you were.   





> Not taking in count the speech issue, you are right it is not.
> 
> You know what is a fundamental right? Equality under the law. *And no, it doesnt get voided by proportionality.*



Third and finally, denigrating and or harassing another person is NOT a human right.

Reactions: Winner 3


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## Orochibuto (Dec 13, 2021)

Shinra Kusakabe said:


> The legislature in your country might one day decide on similar legislation.



They tried something not as aggressive but still discriminatory, it kinda failed spectacularily. They put the 3 biggest wagons in the subway as women exclusive while the rest of the wagons as mixed, creating a discriminatory situation where women had access to all the subway and men were banned from the best wagons.

Cofcofcofblackpeoplecan'tsitinthefrontcofcofcof

It might had changed from last time I checked, but it ended up being one big psychological operation that only works on the legally illiterate. If you enter the exclusive wagon as a man police can boot you out, then if you are taken in front of a judge the judge will set you free because you are not breaking any law.

But that is not all, because this rule IS discriminatory to men, you can actually go to a judge and be granted an exception to the subway rule on the argument that it violates your constitutional rights. And there you go, you can enter as a man to the "exclusive" wagons and the police can't do shit.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Eros (Dec 13, 2021)

Orochibuto said:


> They tried something not as aggressive but still discriminatory, it kinda failed spectacularily. They put the 3 biggest wagons in the subway as women exclusive while the rest of the wagons as mixed, creating a discriminatory situation where women had access to all the subway and men were banned from the best wagons.
> 
> Cofcofcofblackpeoplecan'tsitinfrontofthebuscofcofcof
> 
> ...


Women only subway cars and bus sections violate the US Constitution, so that is unlikely here.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Orochibuto (Dec 13, 2021)

Shinra Kusakabe said:


> Women only subway cars and bus sections violate the US Constitution, so that is unlikely here.



Well you said "the legislature in your country might one day decide on similar legislation" and touted it as if it was something good.


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## Death Certificate (Dec 13, 2021)

Orochibuto said:


> Who said it was?! Who? Don't be obtuse did you even read what I was replying to? I am talking about equality under the law being a fundamental human right.



You have pushed this idea for multiple pages that banning cat-calling will:


somehow create inequality between men and women. Forgetting this inequality already existed before you and I were born.Somehow holding men accountable for street harassment, will cause a flood of women to lie to get innocent men locked up because of the ecstasy of first-class citizenship...despite this law being clear it targets creeps, not the average man.

Do anything to regulate cat-calling and it becomes a human rights issue

Reactions: Winner 1


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## reiatsuflow (Dec 13, 2021)

Hey cool boxes.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Corvida (Dec 13, 2021)

"cat calling"

This is from the Guaerdian and from 2013



The frequency of incidents reported is alarming: "Every day since I was 14 …" "I've lost count of the number of times …" "Called a bitch, whore, slut, slag on the street too many times to mention," were just a few of them. One woman said: "On street, bent to tie my shoe, man walks pass, sticks hand inside my top, into my bra & squeezes breast." Another described being "force kissed by a stranger in the street in broad daylight". One woman, a cancer patient, told how a man openly elbowed his friend as she passed and said: "You missed it. Totally bald. Proper dyke."



Many incidents happened on public transport, from "a man … putting his hand up my skirt and stroking my legs" on a packed tube, to a woman who tried to get off the train only to have a man grab her breasts and tell her "this isn't your stop, love". Another victim said a man "asked me to get off and f*** him … then tried to force my head into his lap".

The theme of harassers becoming aggressive upon rejection was also repeated again and again. One woman said shouts of "Hey … come here", switched to: "You whore, I'll beat you so hard," when she refused. Another described being "followed by a car of teenage boys who then tried to reverse into me when I wouldn't talk to them". In one case, "harassment started on the street, asking if I was married, ended with sexual assault on my doorstep at 3pm".

Threats of violence and sexual assault, such as "If I knew where you lived, I'd follow you home and rape you", were frequently reported, as were actual physical assaults. One woman was "Chased to my door at 11.30pm by two lads who 'Didn't want to hurt me.' I ran faster."

Nat Guest, a 26-year-old digital marketer from London, was walking home from a party on the morning of New Year's Day, when a man came up behind her, making "sexual overtures". When she didn't respond, he told her he had a knife and forced her to face a wall before masturbating into the back of her dress.

Although the police were supportive, the male officer said: "Usually I'd tell you to avoid walking around on your own late at night, but, you know – New Year's. You have to get home somehow." As a young woman in London, Guest experiences sexual harassment so frequently ("most days") that when she reflects on the incident, she says: "Theoretically, I feel angry about it but emotionally I don't feel much at all apart from resigned. But the fact that I feel resigned to this type of thing makes me feel angry."

Most worrying of all was the number of accounts that described the sexual harassment and assault of young girls. One said: "While walking home last year, a man inside a parked car ask[ed] me for a blowjob. I was 15 and in school uniform." One recounted "being told by my parents not to stand up for myself because that will get me raped".


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## creyzi4zb12 (Dec 13, 2021)

Death Certificate said:


> Somehow holding men accountable for street harassment, will cause a flood of women to lie to get innocent men locked up because of the ecstasy of first-class citizenship...despite this law being clear it targets creeps, not the average man.


A lot of Karens already do this to poc


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## creyzi4zb12 (Dec 13, 2021)

Corvida said:


> "cat calling"
> 
> This is from the Guaerdian and from 2013
> 
> ...


That sounds like groping and threatening not catcalling.


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## Orochibuto (Dec 13, 2021)

Mintaka said:


> Objectively?
> 
> In what reality?



In the reality of facts and logic.



Mintaka said:


> First of all guilty criminals, aren't citizens.



Umm, yes they are? This is constitutional law 101 of any democratic country. You don't stop being a citizen when you are found guilty of a crime, I don't know UK law, maybe they stop being citizens once found guilty, I would be surprised if such was the case tho.



Mintaka said:


> Second I didn't mean they shouldn't be punished when they do it, what I meant was this is disproportionally a male on female crime.  To ignore that is foolish, and you were.
> 
> Third and finally, denigrating and or harassing another person is NOT a human right.



Alright, I think we have a problem of communication here. I am not arguing harassing another person is a human right. My argument is on this law criminalizing a conduct for men only, but leaving the conduct free to engage for women. THIS is what I am saying violates human rights, this is what I am talking about when I said "objectively".

Reactions: Like 1


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## reiatsuflow (Dec 13, 2021)

> The frequency of incidents reported is alarming: "Every day since I was 14 …" "I've lost count of the number of times …" "Called a bitch, whore, slut, slag on the street too many times to mention," were just a few of them.





I told you it's coming para
 




> One woman said: "On street, bent to tie my shoe, man walks pass, sticks hand inside my top, into my bra & squeezes breast." Another described being "force kissed by a stranger in the street in broad daylight". One woman, a cancer patient, told how a man openly elbowed his friend as she passed and said: "You missed it. Totally bald. Proper dyke."
> 
> Many incidents happened on public transport, from "a man … putting his hand up my skirt and stroking my legs" on a packed tube, to a woman who tried to get off the train only to have a man grab her breasts and tell her "this isn't your stop, love". Another victim said a man "asked me to get off and f*** him … then tried to force my head into his lap".
> 
> ...



Well the good news most of this is already criminal behavior.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Winner 1


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## creyzi4zb12 (Dec 13, 2021)

reiatsuflow said:


> I told you it's coming para
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Because what was described was groping and threatening. Not catcalling.

These people probably don’t even know what catcalling is


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## reiatsuflow (Dec 13, 2021)

Hell we had a local news story last month because a man sexually assaulted a woman on a rail bus and she reported him. He didn't rape her, mind, but he groped her and followed her off the rail briefly. The news released a sketch, video footage of him exiting the train, asked to identify him, etc. These are already crimes you guys.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Orochibuto (Dec 13, 2021)

Death Certificate said:


> somehow create inequality between men and women. Forgetting this inequality already existed before you and I were born.



If you criminalize a behaviour for men and leave it a legal behavior for women you are indeed somehow creating inequality between men and women.



Death Certificate said:


> Somehow holding men accountable for street harassment, will cause a flood of women to lie



My argument raised concerns that should be addressed by this law. Among these concerns were enforceability. Rather than answer these questions, the replies were ad hominem, meme style replies and sarcasm.

How are you going to enforce this law if you don't have hard evidence? Don't you think this is an important thing to know?

What I said is that IF the answer to this question is "Well, we are just going to automatically believe women when they accuse a guy of harassment and if the guy claims she is lying, we are just going to believe her over what he says" then yes, it is a big problem.




Death Certificate said:


> to get innocent men locked up because of the ecstasy of first-class citizenship...despite this law being clear it targets creeps, not the average man.



If you criminalize behaviors for men but leave then legally allowed for women, you are objectively granting women more rights than men, creating 1st and 2nd class citizens. This is not hard to understand.



Death Certificate said:


> Do anything to regulate cat-calling and it becomes a human rights issue



Do anything to regulate speech (yes, included hate) and it becomes a human rights issue.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Hand Banana (Dec 13, 2021)

After this passes the white folks are going to stop animals from pissing on trees to attract mates.


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## Orochibuto (Dec 13, 2021)

Corvida said:


> But there are verbal aggressions
> 
> you know-when the guy gets angry if you dodnt look at star with the  PUTA, ESTRECHA, THE VOY A PARTIR LA CARA
> 
> the last  menace was made literal to that poor woman of Vitoria



You here enter into a free speech argument, which is an entire debate on its own. I generally agree with the USA interpretation of free speech: Words are never to be punished by the government save for a few exceptions

Of course, real threats and harassment (like actual harassment, not one time "hey hottie" on the street) are included within those exceptions.



Corvida said:


> you think men are beign discriminated against in the Mexico safe city campaign?



If they made a law where only men could be punished but not women, I would think that is discriminatory, that's for sure.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Subarashii (Dec 13, 2021)

Hand Banana said:


> After this passes the white folks are going to stop animals from pissing on trees to attract mates.


If you’re pet isn’t neutered you’re a A) a bad owner and B) it’s just pissing to piss


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## Subarashii (Dec 13, 2021)

Orochibuto said:


> You here enter into a free speech argument, which is an entire debate on its own. I generally agree with the USA interpretation of free speech: Words are never to be punished by the government save for a few exceptions
> 
> Of course, real threats and harassment (like actual harassment, not one time "hey hottie" on the street) are included within those exceptions.
> 
> ...


Hey, tiny wang, if I wanted your lip, I’d unzip! Now gimme your fingernails!

Reactions: Funny 3


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Dec 13, 2021)

Hand Banana said:


> After this passes the white folks are going to stop animals from pissing on trees to attract mates.


Why not film the animals peeing on trees and then make and OF about it? 



Subarashii said:


> If you’re pet isn’t neutered you’re a A) a bad owner and B) it’s just pissing to piss


Also it's pretty suss to let your dog lay on you if it has nuts. Like you're letting another dudes nuts touch you? I don't know.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Subarashii (Dec 13, 2021)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Why not film the animals peeing on trees and then make and OF about it?
> 
> 
> Also it's pretty suss to let your dog lay on you if it has nuts. Like you're letting another dudes nuts touch you? I don't know.


And you gotta look at those balls and then they lick them right in front of you


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Dec 13, 2021)

Subarashii said:


> And you gotta look at those balls and then they lick them right in front of you


Rocky used to drag himself over the couch belly down and his balls would fan out behind him like a parachute.


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## Corvida (Dec 14, 2021)

creyzi4zb12 said:


> That sounds like groping and threatening not catcalling.


and what do you think pestering women or street harassment means?
why you think most of young women dodnt feel safe in the citis and are forced to regulate a full code of coucut to arrive home unmoleste or even alive?






Orochibuto said:


> You here enter into a free speech argument,


No

street harassment ISNT  free speech
How many times do you have to be told?


Orochibuto said:


> Of course, real threats and harassment (like actual harassment, not one time "hey hottie" on the street) are included within those exceptions.


well
you´re getting it
Now
why Sarah´s everard murderer was nicnamed_ the rapist _even before he strangled her?



Orochibuto said:


> If they made a law where only men could be punished but not women,


again-look at the very Mexican campaign
tell me its real an not a meme



and was tagged as  noesdehombres


or the one in Andalucía called literally dont be an animal




why the campaigns are always, innocently or not , trying to concienciate....men?

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Dec 14, 2021)

This is my issue with the whole free speech argument that people make all of the time, they use it to hide behind when they don't want to take responsibility for their words and don't want any of the consequences of saying them--even if the consequences are not enforced by the state. 

Harmful and offensive content does not fall under Freedom of Speech. There is also the manner, time and place of the speech. If you're saying something to a woman in a night club when you've been dancing together all night it's vastly different than you yelling at a nameless woman on the street. People think that their speech protections allow them to do whatever they want, but they forget that there are some things that are obviously prosecuted when they are done. A good example is you finding out something secretive and using it to black mail someone or ruin their livelihood. A court might have something to say about that and you can claim freedom of speech, but at the same time there is a right to privacy. 

Of course, most of the people saying all of this shit are talking about the US. In the UK the freedom of speech protections aren't even as extensive here from my understanding.

Reactions: Winner 2


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## Death Certificate (Dec 14, 2021)

Orochibuto said:


> If you criminalize a behaviour for men and leave it a legal behavior for women you are indeed somehow creating inequality between men and women.



Again you are not listening, inequality between men and women already exists. Not all laws of the age of consent are equal, Not all laws of rape of equal. Countries like Bolivia force women to be incubators without consent, within the UK itself, rape is still judged where or not there is proof of penetration from genitalia or foreign object etc...

Not to mention your logic of criminalizing a behaviour hardly lives up to the fear you are projecting considering the population of men who engage in cat-calling amounts to a minority. Most men who respect and understand women don't use cat-calling to communicate or approach.




Orochibuto said:


> My argument raised concerns that should be addressed by this law. Among these concerns were enforceability. Rather than answer these questions, the replies were ad hominem, meme style replies and sarcasm.



A lot of topics about women in this section, get overrun by guys who aren't interested in learning and take away the conversation to focus on themselves and push narratives of exaggerated myths of false rape cases, complaining about casual sex/ promiscuity, pretending those past centuries had better ideas of how to deal with women and just blatant misogyny. There are only so many times you see the same repeated, misogynist talking points copy and pasted through a daily thread by thread basis that patience is worn thin and explaining to the basics becomes a pointless task to a man who thinks women are trying to destroy men.



Orochibuto said:


> How are you going to enforce this law if you don't have hard evidence? Don't you think this is an important thing to know?



This assumes that getting evidence for cat-calling is difficult in a country where surveillance cameras are almost everywhere in public spaces. It's only when private place or areas of work become more difficult. Still it would more or less require witness testamoines or hidden recordings. Then again this is all just specutaltion based on what OP posted



RemChu said:


> “It could be someone shouting degrading, humiliating comments with lewd language to a woman walking down the street that makes them feel unsafe,” she said.
> “If someone came up to you in a pub, didn’t leave you alone, made foul comments about your body, and was persistently following you around, maybe that would be captured.”





Orochibuto said:


> What I said is that IF the answer to this question is "Well, we are just going to *automatically believe women when they accuse a guy of harassment* and if the guy claims she is lying, we are just going to believe her over what he says" then yes, it is a big problem.


See this is why most just bounce off and mock you because in almost every thread with the topic of women discussing their issues with the world, you intentionally or unintentionally push the idea that women are deciveful and cannot be trusted, while every man accused should be automatically believed to be innocent. 

This also undermines the difficulties that women and men face when describing said harasment because the process of getting to stages of presenting evidence are dismissed by time or completed spectism.

It reminds me how someone like Jimmy Saville got away with decades of abuse and rape, even without the backings of government officials and tv media covering things because all it took was someone to say that "she's a lying" and that would be enough for the public to trust Jimmy over his victims




Orochibuto said:


> If you criminalize behaviors for men but leave then legally allowed for women, you are objectively granting women more rights than men, creating 1st and 2nd class citizens. This is not hard to understand.



We are have laws against rape and non-consentual groping with the gender who commit these crimes being overwhelming men, but sure cat-calling is going to be tipping point of where women finally region supreme over men as the dominate class of gender, and suddenly we are all living in an 80's inspired dystopia prophesied by some commie cuck from the year 8419.




Orochibuto said:


> Do anything to regulate speech (yes, included hate) and it becomes a human rights issue.


Hate speech is already a law in most western countries, how it's dealt with depends on the scale of the crime or the country bothers to do anything about it. In saying that Human rights issues should have been harsh on the UK, not because of this cat-calling law but over recent ones like these:











						New bill quietly gives powers to remove British citizenship without notice
					

Clause added the nationality and borders bill also appears to allow Home Office to act retrospectively in some cases




					www.theguardian.com

Reactions: Winner 2


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## Subarashii (Dec 14, 2021)

creyzi4zb12 said:


> Because what was described was groping and threatening. Not catcalling.
> 
> These people probably don’t even know what catcalling is


Lemme see that baby d*ck, lil boy! It’s about to get Boku no Pico all up in here!

Reactions: Funny 1


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## reiatsuflow (Dec 14, 2021)

Thank you for censoring dick.


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## Subarashii (Dec 14, 2021)

reiatsuflow said:


> Thank you for censoring dick.


Im not looking to get the wrath of El Jefe


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## Yuji (Dec 14, 2021)

Death Certificate said:


> Again you are not listening, inequality between men and women already exists



Yeah, women are favoured in divorce/custody courts, women get less prison time for the same offences, most homeless people are men, young men pay more for car insurance, men are many times more likely to be the victim of violent crimes.



Death Certificate said:


> A lot of topics about women in this section, get overrun by guys who aren't interested in learning and take away the conversation to focus on themselves



You confuse unwillingness to learn with whether you have anything worthwhile that's worth teaching. Given that you've hijacked a thread on catcalling to talk about rape/murder this only proves the point that you don't have any real argument.



Death Certificate said:


> See this is why most just bounce off and mock you because in almost every thread with the topic of women discussing their issues with the world, you intentionally or unintentionally push the idea that women are deciveful and cannot be trusted, while every man accused should be automatically believed to be innocent.



This is why even your own squad just respond to your posts with laughing emojis, you see there is this crazy idea in the west of *innocent until proven guilty*.

Reactions: Dislike 3


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## Corvida (Dec 14, 2021)

Yuji said:


> You confuse unwillingness to learn with whether you have anything worthwhile that's worth teaching. Given that you've hijacked a thread on catcallin


Street harassment, joder




> to talk about rape/murder



  of Sarah Everard



_The Home Secretary said verbal or physical abuse of women in the street were not “low-level” crimes and could lead to more serious offences. nce_


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## Karma (Dec 14, 2021)

This is only for women?

Idk hows its outside brazil but guys getting cat called is pretty normal

Reactions: Informative 4


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## WorkingMoogle (Dec 14, 2021)

Subarashii said:


> Lemme see that baby d*ck, lil boy! It’s about to get Boku no Pico all up in here!


Huh.  I though it was a myth that women wanted anonymous d*ck pics on the Internet.

Enjoy I guess?

Reactions: Funny 4


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## Corvida (Dec 14, 2021)

Karma said:


> This is only for women?



yes


Karma said:


> Idk hows its outside brazil


Nope


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## Canute87 (Dec 14, 2021)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> This is my issue with the whole free speech argument that people make all of the time, they use it to hide behind when they don't want to take responsibility for their words and don't want any of the consequences of saying them--even if the consequences are not enforced by the state.
> 
> Harmful and offensive content does not fall under Freedom of Speech. There is also the manner, time and place of the speech. If you're saying something to a woman in a night club when you've been dancing together all night it's vastly different than you yelling at a nameless woman on the street. People think that their speech protections allow them to do whatever they want, but they forget that there are some things that are obviously prosecuted when they are done. A good example is you finding out something secretive and using it to black mail someone or ruin their livelihood. A court might have something to say about that and you can claim freedom of speech, but at the same time there is a right to privacy.
> 
> Of course, most of the people saying all of this shit are talking about the US. In the UK the freedom of speech protections aren't even as extensive here from my understanding.


Why if the guy howls?


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## Eros (Dec 14, 2021)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> This is my issue with the whole free speech argument that people make all of the time, they use it to hide behind when they don't want to take responsibility for their words and don't want any of the consequences of saying them--even if the consequences are not enforced by the state.
> 
> Harmful and offensive content does not fall under Freedom of Speech. There is also the manner, time and place of the speech. If you're saying something to a woman in a night club when you've been dancing together all night it's vastly different than you yelling at a nameless woman on the street. People think that their speech protections allow them to do whatever they want, but they forget that there are some things that are obviously prosecuted when they are done. A good example is you finding out something secretive and using it to black mail someone or ruin their livelihood. A court might have something to say about that and you can claim freedom of speech, but at the same time there is a right to privacy.
> 
> Of course, most of the people saying all of this shit are talking about the US. In the UK the freedom of speech protections aren't even as extensive here from my understanding.


Harassing people weakens free speech. Free speech is to protect you from an oppressive government, not a tool for oppressing women.

Reactions: Winner 4


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## Mintaka (Dec 14, 2021)

Canute87 said:


> Why if the guy howls?


Probably a furry.


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Dec 14, 2021)

Karma said:


> This is only for women?
> 
> Idk hows its outside brazil but guys getting cat called is pretty normal


What in the hell are y’all doing down there


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## Karma (Dec 14, 2021)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> What in the hell are y’all doing down there


Obviously gay men r still men

But since theres a big hook up culture here its pretty normal for a woman to say some shit to u out in the street

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Subarashii (Dec 14, 2021)

Karma said:


> Obviously gay men r still men
> 
> But since theres a big hook up culture here its pretty normal for a woman to say some shit to u out in the street


Japan and Brazil need to combine to even out their respective horniness (Japan being too low and Brazil seeming sky high)

Reactions: Like 2 | Funny 1


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## Mintaka (Dec 14, 2021)

Subarashii said:


> Japan and Brazil need to combine to even out their respective horniness (Japan being too low and Brazil seeming sky high)


Or they'll bring japans repressed horniness out and then we are all in trouble.

Reactions: Funny 3


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## Death Certificate (Dec 14, 2021)

Yuji said:


> Yeah, women are favoured in divorce/custody courts, women get less prison time for the same offences, most homeless people are men, young men pay more for car insurance, men are many times more likely to be the victim of violent crimes.


I am surprised you held back and didn't talk about the true tragedy that men face: having tv shows and movies replace the leading roles of men with feminists pushing their agenda for the new world order. It's amazing how you took my paragraph high-lighting 2 laws men and women don't benefit from, and 1 law for each gender becomes an unwarranted whine-fest about men not having it easy. Although this is an important theme that I will briefly talk about in terms of your contribution.





Yuji said:


> Given that you've hijacked a thread on catcalling to talk about rape/murder


Let's take a step by step on what is the first post of this thread



> Pestering women in the street to be outlawed​


This is the main title of the thread. Many of my posts have referenced the part where unwanted pestering is an issue that women face



RemChu said:


> Public sexual harassment, such as cat-calling and making sexually explicit comments, to be made an offence in wake of Sarah Everard murder


This is the sub-title, which pretty much states that the calls to create this law about street harassment/cat-calling were influenced by the rape and murder of Sarah. Again something that I have been referencing throughout this thread.



RemChu said:


> A new offence of public sexual harassment seems more likely, with the Law Commission likely to recommend it Credit: Ian West/PA Wire
> 
> or in pubs and making lewd comments at them could become an offence under plans to criminalise “public sexual harassment”, which are set to be announced next week.
> 
> ...


This section more or less explains why the law targets cat-calling rather than a law to make misogyny illegal



RemChu said:


> The Law Commission review of hate crimes was , then Home Secretary.
> It has since become even more important following the , which sparked a huge national debate on violence against women.
> Sarah Everard's death sparked widespread protests on the issue of women's violence Credit: Tolga Akmen/AFP
> In the wake of Miss Everard's killing, ministers said they would consider if there should be a  that would criminalise explicit sexual and abusive behaviour or comments made in public.
> ...



This is the section, pretty much states that the calls to create this law about street harassment/cat-calling were influenced by the rape and murder of Sarah. Once again something that I have been referencing throughout this thread and even gave more context about the rapist/killer of Sarah.



RemChu said:


> Wayne Couzens, Sarah Everard's murderer, had escaped prosecution for alleged flashing offences Credit: Metropolitan Police/PA Wire
> Nimco Ali, the feminist campaigner advising the Government on its violence against women strategy, said new legislation was needed to show such behaviour was unacceptable.
> “It’s like seatbelt laws or the smoking ban. In order for social norms to change, you have to have legislation and then society will police it,” she said.
> But the decision not to make misogyny a hate crime is likely to face a backlash from women’s groups, as it would have enabled police and prosecutors to ask for tougher sentences for some crimes against women.
> ...



The first time post link different from the OP was just giving more context to Wayne Couzens and red flags he had in his past that were ignored by his colleagues.

I can't Hijack a thread on cat-calling to talk about rape/murder when 3/4 of the very first post is about the rape and murder of Sarah Everard and Wayne Couzens history of sexual harassment being ignored by his co-workers.

So what does this says about yourself given that you still try to downplay the connection that was previously established within the first post of this thread? Well the answer is obvious



Subarashii said:


> Read the article





Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> So you can’t read somehow?





blk said:


> You lack basic reading comprehension tho.
> 
> So not sure how you can talk about logic, critical thinking etc



You either need to book an appointment with an ophthalmologist or re-learn the basics of reading from a Pre-school level



Yuji said:


> This is why even your own squad just respond to your posts with laughing emojis,


Is this the part where we compare our overall emojis and see who has the best or this just a lame dig? Either way

If you want an equally lame dig well... you got more x and thumbs downs than neckbeard on a dating app

Reactions: Funny 1 | Winner 6


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## creyzi4zb12 (Dec 14, 2021)

T


Hand Banana said:


> After this passes the white folks are going to stop animals from pissing on trees to attract mates.


there will also probably be more cases of racist karens calling the cops on poc for useless things.


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## Unicornsilovethem (Dec 15, 2021)

Kafuka Fuura said:


> sadly all rapists are men.


Not only are you factually and grossly incorrect, but since you said "sadly" I have to ask: what would you like the gender ratio among rapists to be? 50/50?


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## Kafuka de Vil (Dec 15, 2021)

Unicornsilovethem said:


> Not only are you factually and grossly incorrect, but since you said "sadly" I have to ask: what would you like the gender ratio among rapists to be? 50/50?


0, ideally.

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Unicornsilovethem (Dec 15, 2021)

Kafuka Fuura said:


> 0, ideally.


The ratio of women to men already is 0, according to your claim. So all good then?

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Winner 1


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## Yuji (Dec 15, 2021)

Death Certificate said:


> I am surprised you held back and didn't talk about the true tragedy that men face: having tv shows and movies replace the leading roles of men



And I am unsurprised that you dodged every single point there and kept rambling on about unrelated topics.



Death Certificate said:


> You either need to book an appointment with an ophthalmologist or re-learn the basics of reading from a Pre-school level



Same to you, learn the basics of logic and critical thinking while you're there. Since you wrote an essay and still didn't once address how murder/rape is linked to catcalling I can only assume you don't know yourself and are just repeating talking points.


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## Subarashii (Dec 15, 2021)

Yuji said:


> And I am unsurprised that you dodged every single point there and kept rambling on about unrelated topics.
> 
> 
> 
> Same to you, learn the basics of logic and critical thinking while you're there. Since you wrote an essay and still didn't once address how murder/rape is linked to catcalling I can only assume you don't know yourself and are just repeating talking points.


You’re bringing up irrelevant points about men being the disenfranchised by other men. Yet you never complain about the men who preside over most divorce court cases or the men who literally wrote the laws that “favor” women in child custody cases. You blame women for problems that men created.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Corvida (Dec 15, 2021)

Yuji said:


> Same to you, learn the basics of logic and critical thinking while you're there. Since you wrote an essay and still didn't once address how murder/rape is linked to catcalling


STREET HARASSMENT



just another day in Spain-a 45 years old goat ends in polic custody because his hobby was molesting University girls in Madrid, bus line-after repeated complains to the bus line
My Niece is an University girl in Madrid-so I am mentally getting  my colt 45 ready

how was Sarah´s murderer nicnamed?

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Yuji (Dec 15, 2021)

Subarashii said:


> You’re bringing up irrelevant points about men being the disenfranchised by other men. Yet you never complain about the men who preside over most divorce court cases or the men who literally wrote the laws that “favor” women in child custody cases. You blame women for problems that men created.



Please don't confuse your mindset with mine. You look at things through the prism of blaming a particular gender for everything that goes wrong in your life. I was just pointing out that the legal system doesn't favour men, if you want to blame someone for it that's your mindset, not mine.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Subarashii (Dec 15, 2021)

Yuji said:


> Please don't confuse your mindset with mine. You look at things through the prism of blaming a particular gender for everything that goes wrong in your life. I was just pointing out that the legal system doesn't favour men, if you want to blame someone for it that's your mindset, not mine.


Well you’re clearly blaming women for being favored _by men_

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Yuji (Dec 15, 2021)

Subarashii said:


> Well you’re clearly blaming women for being favored _by men_



You're clearly projecting your insecurities onto me because you lost the point.

Sorry to disappoint but I don't view the world in terms of ''X group did this, X group is to blame for that'', that's you.

Reactions: Funny 1 | Optimistic 2


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## WorkingMoogle (Dec 15, 2021)

Subarashii said:


> Well you’re clearly blaming women for being favored _by men_


Have you tried looking less attractive?  Maybe taking worse care of your appearance or personal hygiene?

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Death Certificate (Dec 15, 2021)

Yuji said:


> And I am unsurprised that you dodged every single point there and kept rambling on about unrelated topics.


Just going to repeat myself :



> I can't Hijack a thread on cat-calling to talk about rape/murder when 3/4 of the very first post is about the rape and murder of Sarah Everard and Wayne Couzens history of sexual harassment being ignored by his co-workers.
> 
> So what does this says about yourself given that you still try to downplay the connection that was previously established within the first post of this thread? Well the answer is obvious

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Dec 15, 2021)

Its not the Governments job to dictate what speech is allowed on a 1v1 basis outside of direct threats of violence.

If someone wants to walk up to me and call me a dirty porch monkey ^ (learn some history) then thats there business.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Disagree 2


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## Corvida (Dec 15, 2021)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Its not the Governments job to dictate what speech is allowed on a 1v1 basis outside of direct threats of violence.



street harassment is not speech


Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> If someone wants to walk up to me and call me a dirty porch monkey ^ (learn some history) then thats there business.


Doesnt work like that

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Catamount (Dec 15, 2021)

> 18 pages in
> still "muh fetuses" "muh free speech"

This is why laws exist in such detailed descriptions as they do, but why read them  right.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Dec 15, 2021)

Corvida said:


> street harassment is not speech
> 
> Doesnt work like that



Harassment imo needs to be more then one statement.

If i walk by a girl on the street and say nice tits whore and keep walking on i dont think thats something the hammer of the law needs to be involved in.

Now if a follow a girl and keep saying shit to her then sure i would say thats fine to get involved in cause someone is consistently invading your personal space and borderline stalking you without permission.


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## Corvida (Dec 15, 2021)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Harassment imo needs to be more then one statement.



   babbling obscenities isnt an statement

is beign a jerk


Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> If i walk by a girl on the street and say nice tits whore




NO GIRL SHOULD HAVE TO WALK BY THE STREET AND BE SUBJECTED TO THAT SHIT




Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> and keep walking on i dont think thats something the hammer of the law needs to be involved in.




I was told, literally , that
my sisters were told literally, that

the full totallity of non flat chested woman I know were told that, " whore"included

NO,

last  time it happened in Spain last summer it ended in a full  street brawl

fuck the mentality
why more than eghty percent of gisl are force to adop a full go alone in the iuty and return safe" strategY?




Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Now if a follow a girl and keep saying shit to her then sure i would say thats fine to get involved in cause someone is consistently invading your personal space and borderline stalking you without permission.



No, not bordeline-thats stalking without permission

as is the tittaays,lookee here!!!!!  stunt is street harassment

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Death Certificate (Dec 15, 2021)

> If i walk by a girl on the street and say nice tits whore and keep walking on i dont think thats something the hammer of the law needs to be involved in.


No shit you wouldn't the law to be involved, every woman in that scenario would sue you for verbal sexual harassment.



> Now if a follow a girl and keep saying shit to her then sure i would say thats fine to get involved in cause someone is consistently invading your personal space and borderline stalking you without permission.


>pestering a girl who doesn't want you around them
>while verbally harassing them
That's not "borderline" stalking, it's literal stalking. Worst yet that could traumatise the girl in the future to be completely distrustful of men.

 Seriously it's ridiculous how much of the pro-cat-calling have little understanding of how laws work, and are just completely clueless about women

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 1 | Winner 1


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## Subarashii (Dec 15, 2021)

Yuji said:


> You're clearly projecting your insecurities onto me because you lost the point.
> 
> Sorry to disappoint but I don't view the world in terms of ''X group did this, X group is to blame for that'', that's you.


What insecurities?? Not sure where you're getting that


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## Gin (Dec 15, 2021)

this whole thread is a disaster

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2 | Funny 1


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## Kitsune (Dec 15, 2021)

Subarashii said:


> What insecurities?? Not sure where you're getting that


Thread wouldn’t be complete without some good old-fashioned gaslighting.

Reactions: Agree 3


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## Eros (Dec 15, 2021)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Harassment imo needs to be more then one statement.
> 
> If i walk by a girl on the street and say nice tits whore and keep walking on i dont think thats something the hammer of the law needs to be involved in.
> 
> Now if a follow a girl and keep saying shit to her then sure i would say thats fine to get involved in cause someone is consistently invading your personal space and borderline stalking you without permission.


So tell me do you want gay men to follow you down the street commenting on how nice your ass looks and how they'd like to fuck it, or do you think it's lascivious behavior?


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## Xelioszzapporro (Dec 15, 2021)

Shinra Kusakabe said:


> So tell me do you want gay men to follow you down the street commenting on how nice your ass looks and how they'd like to fuck it, or do you think it's lascivious behavior?



Uuumm have they done it to you or have you done it to them ???
Or are you just asking to him just a question ?


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## Subarashii (Dec 15, 2021)

Xelioszzapporro said:


> Uuumm have they done it to you or have you done it to them ???
> Or are you just asking to him just a question ?


If he thinks it's ok to do that to women, then it's ok to do it to him.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Subarashii (Dec 15, 2021)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Harassment imo needs to be more then one statement.
> 
> If i walk by a girl on the street and say nice tits whore and keep walking on i dont think thats something the hammer of the law needs to be involved in.
> 
> Now if a follow a girl and keep saying shit to her then sure i would say thats fine to get involved in cause someone is consistently invading your personal space and borderline stalking you without permission.


Shut your butthole, you're stinking up the place!

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 1 | Winner 1


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## Eros (Dec 15, 2021)

Xelioszzapporro said:


> Uuumm have they done it to you or have you done it to them ???
> Or are you just asking to him just a question ?


No. Actually it seems bi men are more likely to be that overt. Imagine that.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## GRIMMM (Dec 15, 2021)

The self-reporting continues.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Eros (Dec 15, 2021)

GRIMMM said:


> The self-reporting continues.


Being on the receiving end, yeah. It's a crazy world.


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## Bazu'aal (Dec 15, 2021)

Gin said:


> this whole thread is a disaster


TRUUUU but the self-reports are hilarious.

Until @Shinra Kusakabe committed friendly fire.  

































(it's ok Shinra, I'm just weird.)

Reactions: Funny 1 | Friendly 1


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Dec 15, 2021)

Subarashii said:


> Shut your butthole, you're stinking up the place!



Oh i can get a lot more stinky

Let me go grab my Gamecube Smash Remote.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Dec 15, 2021)

Shinra Kusakabe said:


> So tell me do you want gay men to follow you down the street commenting on how nice your ass looks and how they'd like to fuck it, or do you think it's lascivious behavior?



Im Ace so i really give no shits who flirts with me

I would just find it funny


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## reiatsuflow (Dec 15, 2021)

Thread should be stickied.

Reactions: Funny 1 | Lewd 1


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## Orochibuto (Dec 15, 2021)

Death Certificate said:


> Again you are not listening, inequality between men and women already exists. Not all laws of the age of consent are equal, Not all laws of rape of equal. Countries like Bolivia force women to be incubators without consent, within the UK itself, rape is still judged where or not there is proof of penetration from genitalia or foreign object etc...



Then it is even worse, inequality already existing does not justify making discriminatory laws, quite the opposite.



Death Certificate said:


> Not to mention your logic of criminalizing a behaviour hardly lives up to the fear you are projecting considering the population of men who engage in cat-calling amounts to a minority. Most men who respect and understand women don't use cat-calling to communicate or approach.



It is not just about criminalizing a behaviours. It is about criminalizing a behaviour ONLY FOR MEN while legally allowing women to engage in it. It isn't about what men who respect woman do. It is about the principle of equality before the law, I don't know why this point flies over your head.



Death Certificate said:


> This assumes that getting evidence for cat-calling is difficult in a country where surveillance cameras are almost everywhere in public spaces. It's only when private place or areas of work become more difficult. Still it would more or less require witness testamoines or hidden recordings. Then again this is all just specutaltion based on what OP posted



If they apply a video evidence standard, I agree that the issues of enforceability would be solved for the most part.



Death Certificate said:


> See this is why most just bounce off and mock you because in almost every thread with the topic of women discussing their issues with the world, you intentionally or unintentionally push the idea that women are deciveful and cannot be trusted, while every man accused should be automatically believed to be innocent.
> 
> This also undermines the difficulties that women and men face when describing said harasment because the process of getting to stages of presenting evidence are dismissed by time or completed spectism.
> 
> It reminds me how someone like Jimmy Saville got away with decades of abuse and rape, even without the backings of government officials and tv media covering things because all it took was someone to say that "she's a lying" and that would be enough for the public to trust Jimmy over his victims



No, it has nothing to do with women being deceitful, it has to do with believing the ACCUSER over the accused.

Presumption of innocence, have you heard of it? It is another fundamental right. You don't have to prove your innocence, the one who accuse you has to prove your guilt.

If you make it so that this law automatically believes women over men, guess what? You are removing presumption of innocence from men. Now men accused of this crime by a woman must prove their innocence.



Death Certificate said:


> We are have laws against rape and non-consentual groping with the gender who commit these crimes being overwhelming men, but sure cat-calling is going to be tipping point of where women finally region supreme over men as the dominate class of gender, and suddenly we are all living in an 80's inspired dystopia prophesied by some commie cuck from the year 8419.



Just because bullshit inequality laws already exist is not justification to increase those laws, if anything it make it worse.

You don't need a dystopia or Nazi Germany levels of discrimination to have 1st and 2nd class citizens.

Every criminal law that exists, from reckless driving to murder is curtailing the rights of citizens. When a criminal law is made, the government is commanded to get physically violent with the citizens that break such law, beat them up with batons if they resist and kidnap them for years at a time. It is only because murder is a crime that the government can kidnap you for years if you murder, if it wasn't then you would have the right to murder. And that is okay, because people have agreed under the social contract to limit their own rights to have order.

When you have a criminal law that prohibits a segment of your population from engaging in a behevior based on immutable characteristics but allow another segment to engage in it based on immutable characteristics. You have de facto created 1st and 2nd class citizens. This doesn't need to be something gross, for example if you made being naked in the street illegal for black people but legal for white people, then you have made black people 2nd and white people 1st class citizens.

If you make it criminal for men to catcall, but legal for women you are literally granting women more rights than men. Then you have de facto made women 1st class citizens compared to men. And if such laws already exist then it doesn't make the issue any better, if anything it makes it worse.

This is an objective fact, this is indisputable, like 2+2=4. There is simply no arguing around this fact. We can argue if catcalling should be considered free speech, we can argue if hate speech should be a crime, it is an argument we can have, we can have that discussion.

Creating specific crimes that only penalize one sex but allows the other to engage in the penalized conduct, being giving more rights to one sex than the other sex, is an objective fact, there is simply no arguing around it, it is not disputable.

Reactions: Funny 1 | Winner 2 | Disagree 1


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## reiatsuflow (Dec 15, 2021)

Orochibuto said:


> Then it is even worse, inequality already existing does not justify making discriminatory laws, quite the opposite.



We're taking awhile to figure this one out even in the US, but we're getting there.


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## reiatsuflow (Dec 15, 2021)

Also I think that's a bugaboo for some of the posters you're arguing at, they're onboard with making discriminatory laws to compensate for inequality. So there are fundamental disagreements here.


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## Mider T (Dec 16, 2021)

reiatsuflow said:


> Thread should be stickied.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Corvida (Dec 16, 2021)

Orochibuto said:


> Creating specific crimes that only penalize one sex bu*t allows the other to engage in the penalized conduct*


This is more than reaching
its straight paranoia

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Jim (Dec 16, 2021)

He was optimistic


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## Orochibuto (Dec 16, 2021)

Corvida said:


> This is more than reaching
> its straight paranoia



Logic 101: 

Everything that is not forbidden by law, is allowed.

If you make a law where black people specifically are not allowed to carry weed without an equivalent law for white people, guess what? You are penalizing black people from doing that, while allowing white people to do so.

Same with this law if it is not gender neutral.

Paranoia my ass, if you deny this then you are straight denying facts.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Yuji (Dec 16, 2021)

The people who are for this law are incredibly misogynistic. They think women are so weak and pathetic that they can't possibly function in society and break down if a guy shouts out 'nice ass' from across the street.

I think I must have been spoiled in terms of women my entire life. All the women I've known - even the ones I didn't like - were able to get ahead without demanding for laws that unfairly discriminate against men and violate freedom of speech.

Reactions: Funny 1 | Disagree 2


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## Subarashii (Dec 16, 2021)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Oh i can get a lot more stinky
> 
> Let me go grab my Gamecube Smash Remote.


Post your only fans, bitch! Pix or it didn’t happen!




Orochibuto said:


> Logic 101:
> 
> Everything that is not forbidden by law, is allowed.
> 
> ...


The law makes catcalling illegal. No gender was specified, because that would be discrimination.


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## Eros (Dec 16, 2021)

Orochibuto said:


> Logic 101:
> 
> Everything that is not forbidden by law, is allowed.
> 
> ...


Don't you live in a country where all I have to do is pay a cop or a politician a grand here and there, and I can do as the fuck I damn well please? And you're worried about equality between men and women? You should be more concerned about social class, amigo.


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## Corvida (Dec 16, 2021)

Orochibuto said:


> Logic 101:


paranoia 101


Orochibuto said:


> Everything that is not forbidden by law, is allowed.


I have a great revelation for you


forbidding men from street harassing women doesnt mean women are allowed to insult, demean, pursuit shout obsenities , touch or  follow,corner, smash the face or menace men  with rape


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## Corvida (Dec 16, 2021)

Yuji said:


> The people who are for this law are incredibly misogynistic. They think women are so weak and pathetic that they can't possibly function in society and break down if a guy shouts out 'nice ass' from across the street.



Define pestering women


Yuji said:


> I think I must have been spoiled in terms of women my entire life. All the women I've known - even the ones I didn't like - were able to get ahead without demanding for laws that unfairly discriminate against men and violate freedom of speech.


harassment isnt freedom of speech

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Death Certificate (Dec 16, 2021)

Orochibuto said:


> Then it is even worse, inequality already existing does not justify making discriminatory laws, quite the opposite.





Orochibuto said:


> It is not just about criminalizing a behaviours. It is about criminalizing a behaviour ONLY FOR MEN





Orochibuto said:


> Just because bullshit inequality laws already exist is not justification to increase those laws, if anything it make it worse.



Since this is the point that been repeated 3 times. I might as well address it this small ti bit



> _History and how inequality and laws have usually gone hand to hand The first rape law emerged in Babylon during c.1900 BC. The Code of Hammurabi dictated that if a man forces sex upon another man’s wife or if a man forces sex upon a virgin woman that “is living in her father’s house,” then “that man should be put to death”  This set a legal precedent that rape was merely a form of theft and vandalism since women were considered property. Married women who were raped were guilty of adultery and were put to death_



 (which why a lot of women who were raped by their husbands, couldn’t come forward)


We need to be mindful that the origins of laws protecting women, didn’t even view them as human, simply as property to be owned. The anger that came towards rape was the equivalent of a man shitting on their yard, not morality. The accused would be given a death sentence and only women who are married or living with their father could qualify, meaning single women and girls living with only their mothers were left out of the equation of property rights. It's not until Emperor Constantine, 4th C BCE, that rape became a public offence rather than a private wrong ( but everything else still remained)

This view remained constant for centuries until English law in the 1600’s created the first shift in society’s perception of rape by re-defining the criminal act as “the carnal knowledge of any woman above the age of 10 years against her will and a woman child under the age of 10 years against her will.

It took many centuries after 4th C BCE, to actually mandate a law stop rape for women and girls of all ages (except for black women and girls in western society) marital rape was still legal until the late 20th Century ( due to 2nd wave feminist movements) So before we talk about how unfair this cat-calling law is towards men, women have and still deal for far worst shit.



Orochibuto said:


> while legally allowing women to engage in it



First off cat-calling isn’t something women have an engagement with since mainly forced by men who want to pester or verbal abuse them. Secondly, there isn’t anything that hints that women are free to the reverse considering harassment laws still exist for both genders.




Orochibuto said:


> You don't need a dystopia or Nazi Germany levels of discrimination to have 1st and 2nd class citizens.




No shit but that’s usually divided by race, class, gender, sexuality and citizenship. It would be a major leap to claim that this cat-calling law is comparable to Jim Crow laws or caste system




Orochibuto said:


> When you have a criminal law that prohibits a segment of your population from engaging in a behevior based on *immutable characteristics*



Um, what?




Orochibuto said:


> immutable characteristics



Let me just get a quick definition of this term

_An *immutable characteristic* is any sort of physical attribute which is perceived as being unchangeable, entrenched and innate
For example, a legal debate about  concerns whether it is a mutable or immutable characteristic. If it is immutable, then homosexuality, bisexuality, asexuality, heterosexuality, etc., are all immutable characteristics that naturally occur and cannot be changed_

Yeah like based on this definition saying cat-calling is an immutable characteristic is a gross exaggeration at best and completely lunacy at worst. By all means, if you tried removing someone's sexuality that’s a literal human right violation, the same can’t be said about cat-calling.

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 1


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## Orochibuto (Dec 16, 2021)

Subarashii said:


> The law makes catcalling illegal. No gender was specified, because that would be discrimination.



Which is why I mentioned the law being equal being important in my initial concerns. Yes, obviously if it is gender neutral then there is no issue here.

Based on the wording of the article posted, it seems unlikely though. Still it surprised me how when I mentioned this, most replies rather than pointing out the law might be gender neutral, went on to JUSTIFY it if it ends up being discriminatory, which is why I am having this argument.



Shinra Kusakabe said:


> Don't you live in a country where all I have to do is pay a cop or a politician a grand here and there, and I can do as the fuck I damn well please? And you're worried about equality between men and women? You should be more concerned about social class, amigo.



I can't believe you went there 

You literally pulled a "Oh well, you have greater problems, I don't know why you worry about this" card.

"Why don't you first solve school shootings before worrying about this problem?" this is how it sounds. However that aside, you did brought up an interesting question topic regarding corruption, so I will answer it in detail.

No, it isn't that simple, definitely not just for "a grand here and there". There is a lot of factors, if you are a millionaire, then yeah you can likely kill someone poor without getting in trouble with the law by bribing the cops. It also depends on how viral the issue is, even if you are a millionaire if your crime has become viral, you can kiss your ass goodbye if you actually did a violent crime. With social media it has now become more difficult to murder someone with impunity, though I guess it still can happen.

But don't expect to being able to murder and rape your way here and then pay off your troubles away like you can in GTA, maybe unless you are a millionaire and the one you killed is poor or you are very politically connected, this is as long as the case doesn't go viral.

A huge part is that both de jure and de facto, law here works based on the will of the parties involved, even for laws that are supposed to be automatic, unless it is a media case, the concept of the law being applied automatically regardless of the parties involved, rarely happens. Here the concept of "as long as you have a good lawyer" applies way more than in countries like the USA. You basically need a lawyer to push your case through the legal system even when they supposedly should not be needed. So say, for example you kill or rape someone, it technically is a crime that must see you imprisoned no ifs and buts. In practice IF you can pay off all the family members of the guy you killed and have them remove their lawyers, then you can have the authorities drop the case. This also goes both ways, if you are innocent of a crime and your adversary has a better lawyer, is way richer or if your case became national outrage even if you are technically innocent, the authorities will even be willing to trample on your legal rights to keep you in prison.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Vasto Lorde King (Dec 16, 2021)

@Orochibuto soloing all these libs in here.    

Also I have to admit that @ShinAkuma is a better debator then the vast majority of left wing posters in here, besides me not agreeing with him, that is all.

Reactions: Friendly 1 | Optimistic 2 | Dislike 1


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## Orochibuto (Dec 16, 2021)

Corvida said:


> forbidding men from street harassing women doesnt mean women are allowed to insult, demean, pursuit shout obsenities , touch or  follow,corner, smash the face or menace men  with rape



You are right. Forbidding men specifically from catcalling or "pestering" and only men, while not women, does however mean women are allowed to catcall men or whatever the law will define as "pestering". So yes, you would have a situation where men would not be allowed per law to do something, while women are.

We are talking specifically about "catcalling" and "pestering", I don't know why you bring all sorts of things like smashing faces, menace and rapes which are obviously already illegal. It is like you are trying to mix up the issue with other stuff to avoid addressing the actual arguments presented.



Death Certificate said:


> We need to be mindful that the origins of laws protecting women, didn’t even view them as human, simply as property to be owned. The anger that came towards rape was the equivalent of a man shitting on their yard, not morality. The accused would be given a death sentence and only women who are married or living with their father could qualify, meaning single women and girls living with only their mothers were left out of the equation of property rights. It's not until Emperor Constantine, 4th C BCE, that rape became a public offence rather than a private wrong ( but everything else still remained)
> 
> This view remained constant for centuries until English law in the 1600’s created the first shift in society’s perception of rape by re-defining the criminal act as “the carnal knowledge of any woman above the age of 10 years against her will and a woman child under the age of 10 years against her will.
> 
> It took many centuries after 4th C BCE, to actually mandate a law stop rape for women and girls of all ages (except for black women and girls in western society) marital rape was still legal until the late 20th Century ( due to 2nd wave feminist movements) So before we talk about how unfair this cat-calling law is towards men, women have and still deal for far worst shit.



Chief, your history lesson doesn't negate the facts in this discussion. Yes, women have had to deal with a lot of worse lose through history, here is the thing: it does NOT justify having discriminatory laws against men.

You are literally doing the argument the brainlabs company used when issuing a discriminatory raise to women only based on a "pay gap tax"


0:50 "But this is unfair on men, isn't it?" (spoiler, it is)

Then the woman on this video says she doesn't believes it is unfair because "women have been facing issues for centuries", as if that somehow made it fair.

Guess what, Death? Discrimination in the past, does not justify discrimination in the present.




Death Certificate said:


> First off cat-calling isn’t something women have an engagement with since mainly forced by men who want to pester or verbal abuse them.



It doesn't matter if they do it. Again, it is about the principle of equality before the law. How hard is this to understand?

It is about the law not forbidding men from doing something, while allowing women do to it. It is about law discrimination.



Death Certificate said:


> Secondly, there isn’t anything that hints that women are free to the reverse



Maybe this article doesn't convey the full information, but from what officials commented on it in the OP, it seems very clear this law will only cover catcalling to women, possibly only when done by men.

Assuming it isn't, then yes, this particular issue is solved. Which is why I addressed the law being non discriminatory as a concern on my initial post properly addressing this law.

By the way, even if women are not legally allowed to engage in this behavior prior to this law, if the law punishes men more for the same deed, it is still legal discrmination based on sex.



Death Certificate said:


> considering harassment laws still exist for both genders.



Then why is this law necessary? If laws already exist that cover this, then it makes a law that cover this irrelevant. Something is off. Obviously there are some behaviors that are nor currently considered harassment that are not covered and this law will cover.

If this law leaves those previously uncovered behaviors a crime for men, but not a crime for women, then it is discrimination. Furthermore, even if they are illegal for both sexes if this law punishes men more than when women do it, it is still discrimination.



Death Certificate said:


> No shit but that’s usually divided by race, class, *gender, sexuality* and citizenship.



Glad we agree! Then you surely must agree that if this law only forbids men from catcalling women, but allows women to catcalling men, it is indeed discriminatory, right?



Death Certificate said:


> Um, what?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Are you serious? I can't honesly say anymore if you guys are just trolling pretending to not understand what I am saying or bringing up other points to avoid addressing my main arguments.

Obviously catcalling is not the immutable characteristic, SEX IS. Being a man or a woman is an immutable characteristic, sex reassignment issues aside.

If you make a law that punishes a behavior for one sex specifically but leaves it unpunished for the other sex, then that law is discriminating on an immutable characteristic: sex.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Dec 16, 2021)

I cant speak for other countries but i know for a fact any female harassing a male on the streets will not be taken seriously by the cops in america

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Gin (Dec 16, 2021)

i do agree that a law like this should be gender neutral, if for nothing other than the sake of consistency

ppl going hard complaining about it are kinda weird tho, considering the vast divide across the sexes regarding catcalling and verbal sexual intimidation

no grown ass man being intellectually honest is going to say he feels legitimately threatened by a woman shouting at him that he has a nice ass, at most he'll be slightly embarrassed

reverse the situation and the woman is (usually) significantly smaller/physically weaker than the man, and said man has a far greater statistical likelihood on following up on his purely verbal actions, so yeah, no wonder a woman would feel threatened by this

people tl;dring in opposition to catcalling being outlawed either don't acknowledge this obvious fact, or don't care (almost universally probably the latter)

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Dec 16, 2021)

Gin said:


> i do agree that a law like this should be gender neutral, if for nothing other than the sake of consistency
> 
> ppl going hard complaining about it are kinda weird tho, considering the vast divide across the sexes regarding catcalling and verbal sexual intimidation
> 
> ...



Random Violence is already illegal so whats your point? 

 Unless there is some evidence Making Catcalling illegal will reduce the amounts of assaults i dont see the point of your post

Or are you saying we should have the Gov interfere with speech in a public setting because it will make women fell better?

Reactions: Winner 1 | Dislike 1


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## reiatsuflow (Dec 16, 2021)

I just noticed DD capitalizes words like trump.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Subarashii (Dec 16, 2021)

Orochibuto said:


> Yes, obviously if it is gender neutral then there is no issue here.


There is literally no issue here then, because the law is gender neutral.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Parallax (Dec 16, 2021)

I know threads about women are a disaster here but I didn't see this one being this out of control

Reactions: Agree 2 | Funny 1


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## Magic (Dec 16, 2021)

Parallax said:


> I know threads about women are a disaster here but I didn't see this one being this out of control


If I had to bet 10,000 on it.

Easy money.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## ShinAkuma (Dec 16, 2021)

Millón Vasto said:


> @Orochibuto soloing all these libs in here.
> 
> Also I have to admit that @ShinAkuma is a better debator then the vast majority of left wing posters in here, besides me not agreeing with him, that is all.


Thank you. I appreciate the recognition.

Reactions: Friendly 1


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## Gin (Dec 16, 2021)

basically any thread that conservatives or men with masculinity complexes perceive as 'telling them what to do' is guaranteed to blow up in a mushroom cloud of outrage

so yeah

Reactions: Agree 2 | Winner 2


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## reiatsuflow (Dec 16, 2021)

Does anyone here think this new avatar undermines me when I'm making a serious point.

Reactions: Funny 4 | Neutral 1


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## ShinAkuma (Dec 16, 2021)

reiatsuflow said:


> Does anyone here think this new avatar undermines me when I'm making a serious point.


It's beautiful.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Skyfall (Dec 16, 2021)

reiatsuflow said:


> Does anyone here think this new avatar undermines me when I'm making a serious point.


I like it.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Gin (Dec 16, 2021)

same


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## Eros (Dec 16, 2021)

Gin said:


> basically any thread that conservatives or men with masculinity complexes perceive as 'telling them what to do' is guaranteed to blow up in a mushroom cloud of outrage
> 
> so yeah


It's surprising that they don't want to legalize rape outright tbh.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Corvida (Dec 17, 2021)

Orochibuto said:


> You are right. Forbidding men specifically from catcalling or "pestering"



street harassing


Orochibuto said:


> and only men, while not women,



And please tell me

where does it says women are allowed to shout sexual  obscenties, threaten, follow, corner or touch men?


Orochibuto said:


> does however mean women are allowed to catcall men or whatever the law will define as "pestering". So yes, you would have a situation where men would not be allowed per law to do something, while women are.



women arent allowed to street harass men


Orochibuto said:


> We are talking specifically about "catcalling" and "pestering", I don't know why you bring all sorts of things like smashing faces, menace and rapes which are obviously already illegal. It is like you are trying to mix up the issue with other stuff to avoid addressing the actual arguments presented.


How was Sarah Everard ´s killed nicknamed?
why women have to think strategies AND GO FULL NINJA  to simply be able to comE back home alive

the face smashing of Vitoria happened becasue a woman was being jeered and pestered by a group of retards
retards usually get angry if the woman ignores them

LETS BREAK THAT PRETTY  FACE

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Subarashii (Dec 17, 2021)

reiatsuflow said:


> Does anyone here think this new avatar undermines me when I'm making a serious point.


You make serious points?

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 4


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## Yami Munesanzun (Dec 17, 2021)

~Avant~ said:


> So do you want a world where women are always the ones who make the first move?


?

What's the problem with this, exactly?

Like, I'd be fucking ecstatic if this happened more often. I probably wouldnt have this massive dumpster bin of self-esteem regarding dating.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Informative 1


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## GRIMMM (Dec 17, 2021)

Subarashii said:


> You make serious points?


 

Jk @reiatsuflow

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## Yami Munesanzun (Dec 17, 2021)

Anyways, the fuck happened in this thread?

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Parallax (Dec 17, 2021)

RemChu said:


> If I had to bet 10,000 on it.
> 
> Easy money.



Don't talk to me about your gambling addiction pls

Reactions: Funny 2 | Disagree 1


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## ~Avant~ (Dec 17, 2021)

Yami Munesanzun said:


> ?
> 
> What's the problem with this, exactly?
> 
> Like, I'd be fucking ecstatic if this happened more often. I probably wouldnt have this massive dumpster bin of self-esteem regarding dating.


Statistically speaking, studies have shown women prefer when men make the first move.

Theres nothing wrong with it though. My wife made the first move. Just putting into consideration what it is that women are looking for in their men.


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## Yami Munesanzun (Dec 17, 2021)

@RemChu 
Tell us about your crypto, o' wise one

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Jim (Dec 17, 2021)

Yami Munesanzun said:


> @RemChu
> Tell us about your crypto, o' wise one


We won't get it, it's too cryptic
j/k

Reactions: Funny 2


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## reiatsuflow (Dec 17, 2021)

The fact that jim can't see or read anything I post makes him ... irresistible.

someone ask him if he'll go out for a coffee with me or something. super casual, no pressure

Reactions: Funny 4


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## Yami Munesanzun (Dec 17, 2021)

@Jim 

@reiatsuflow needs to know if you _wan sum fuk_?!?!

Reactions: Funny 3


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## reiatsuflow (Dec 17, 2021)

Tell him what I said exactly, I don't want to spook him


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## Yami Munesanzun (Dec 17, 2021)

reiatsuflow said:


> Tell him what I said exactly, I don't want to spook him


What are you talking about, I repeated what you said verbatim.


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## Eros (Dec 17, 2021)

Yami Munesanzun said:


> @Jim
> 
> @reiatsuflow needs to know if you _wan sum fuk_?!?!


Cream of sum yung guy?


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## Subarashii (Dec 17, 2021)

@Jim why do you have @reiatsuflow on ignore? He’s so innocuous


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## Orochibuto (Dec 17, 2021)

Corvida said:


> street harassing



Obviously not all forms of what you would call "street harassment" are covered under law, otherwise this law would be irrelevant. I assume this include one time catcalls, whistling and such.

If this law is gender neutral, then there is no problem in this aspect. But if it isn't, then it would allow women to engage in the behaviors not covered under the current law, while prohibiting men from doing so.



Corvida said:


> And please tell me
> 
> where does it says women are allowed to shout sexual  obscenties, threaten, follow, corner or touch men?



We are not talking about threatening, following, cornering and touching, which are presumably already illegal, specially touching.

We are talking specifically about catcalling, which is not covered under the current law hence the title "To be outlawed" rather than "it is outlawed"

If this law is not gender neutral, then women would be allowed to engage in whatever this law will criminalize, but not men.



Corvida said:


> women arent allowed to street harass men



No, but they are as are currently also men, allowed to engage in whatever behaviors this law will specifically criminalize. If this law only criminalize when it is done to women, then women would be allowed to do so but not men.



Corvida said:


> How was Sarah Everard ´s killed nicknamed?
> why women have to think strategies AND GO FULL NINJA  to simply be able to comE back home alive
> 
> the face smashing of Vitoria happened becasue a woman was being jeered and pestered by a group of retards
> ...



I am not going to engage in this since it is irrelevant to the discussion.

We are talking specifically about catcalling and "pestering" as will be defined under this specific law and the law discrimination that would entail if this law is not gender neutral. I am not going to engage into face smashing and rapes, which are obviously illegal already.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Jim (Dec 17, 2021)

Subarashii said:


> @Jim why do you have @reiatsuflow on ignore? He’s so innocuous





Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Don't respond to reiastsuflow expecting him to really answer for any of these things. He doesn't say this stuff in a real sense, he says it to cast doubt and make things about these extremists look better.
> 
> The important thing of not here is that he's hanging out with him and you quoted it. So that's fun.


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## Subarashii (Dec 17, 2021)

You must have half this forum on ignore then  where is the fun in that!?

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Xelioszzapporro (Dec 17, 2021)

Shinra Kusakabe said:


> It's surprising that they don't want to legalize rape outright tbh.



I think it is because ''rape'' is hard to define. People have their own definition? I guess.

Reactions: Funny 2


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## reiatsuflow (Dec 17, 2021)

Subarashii said:


> You must have half this forum on ignore then  where is the fun in that!?



You guys really think jim put me on ignore because I'm insincere or silly sometimes?

_Jim's entire personality_ is a schtick, j/k that's what his mom says.

That's like HB getting mad at someone for being a fake conservative. Come on now.

I think I did something else that irritated him.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## reiatsuflow (Dec 17, 2021)

and/or jim can't handle politics.

Goddammit jim you soggy brained sack of shit. 

Now I'm mad, look how fast I whiplashed between love and hate. 
ze passion, it burns


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## Subarashii (Dec 17, 2021)



Reactions: Funny 3


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Dec 17, 2021)

Subarashii said:


> You must have half this forum on ignore then  where is the fun in that!?


reiastsuflow isn't funny or interesting, you can get the sense that he's vaguely like a human (unlike SoG) in the same way that sometimes your dog will look at you like they have some deeper understanding of the things going on around you. 

But then your pup curls up and goes back to licking its own asshole and you remember that it's just a dog. 

There's no point talking to reiastsuflow because at the end of the day most of what he's trying to do is soften the reaction to some of the worse offenders around here. 

Annnnd if I didn't say something he would come in here behind me and try to make some cutesy joke about how I'm only mad because he made fun of Peach or some such. Nah, my problem is how you defend fascists.

Reactions: Agree 3


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## Gin (Dec 17, 2021)

reiatsuflow is the only conservative in the cafe that's worth _not_ being on ignore

Reactions: Agree 1 | Winner 1


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## Gin (Dec 17, 2021)

i mean look at his avatar

that's some high level topical satire

who couldn't like the guy

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 1


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## ~Avant~ (Dec 17, 2021)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> reiastsuflow isn't funny or interesting, you can get the sense that he's vaguely like a human (unlike SoG) in the same way that sometimes your dog will look at you like they have some deeper understanding of the things going on around you.
> 
> But then your pup curls up and goes back to licking its own asshole and you remember that it's just a dog.
> 
> ...


Sucks when people gaslight and misinterpret you huh?

Reactions: Funny 1 | Winner 1


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## Mider T (Dec 17, 2021)

Gin said:


> i mean look at his avatar
> 
> that's some high level topical satire
> 
> who couldn't like the guy


Don't fall for this shameless self-promotion guys smh

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Eros (Dec 17, 2021)

Xelioszzapporro said:


> I think it is because ''rape'' is hard to define. People have their own definition? I guess.


Okay. So if a woman is , and she is incapable of saying yes or no, is it okay for you to dong her?


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## Magic (Dec 17, 2021)

Parallax said:


> Don't talk to me about your gambling addiction pls


When you do a ton of research and make an educated bet it is called "investing" my friend.

I know you all so well, so hardly risk involved in that bet.


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## reiatsuflow (Dec 17, 2021)

RemChu said:


> I know you all so well, so hardly risk involved in that bet.



*investment

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Dec 17, 2021)

~Avant~ said:


> Sucks when people gaslight and misinterpret you huh?


I'm not one of your failed Tinder dates, you can't guilt me into giving a shit about whatever point you're making.


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## Orochibuto (Dec 17, 2021)

Shinra Kusakabe said:


> Okay. So if a woman is , and she is incapable of saying yes or no, is it okay for you to dong her?



This is obviously rape. But some people take it as far as to claim ditzy drunk where you are clearly conscious but less inhibited due alcohol and willing to do stuff you normally would not, is rape as well.

I think this is the area Xelios is talking about.

Reactions: Like 1 | Dislike 2


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## Eros (Dec 17, 2021)

Orochibuto said:


> This is obviously rape. But some people take it as far as to claim ditzy drunk where you are clearly conscious but less inhibited due alcohol and willing to do stuff you normally would not, is rape as well.
> 
> I think this is the area Xelios is talking about.


There's also inebriated, but incapable of remembering much and having little control of motor function and speech. Is this a gray area too?


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## Orochibuto (Dec 17, 2021)

Shinra Kusakabe said:


> There's also inebriated, but incapable of remembering much and having little control of motor function and speech. Is this a gray area too?



If you are actually losing your cognitive to the point you cant consent, I think its rape.

But if it is just alcohol having nuked your standards due making you horny and disinhibited, then it is definitively not.

Reactions: Dislike 2


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## ~Avant~ (Dec 17, 2021)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> I'm not one of your failed Tinder dates, you can't guilt me into giving a shit about whatever point you're making.



I swear you’re a parody of yourself

Reactions: Funny 1 | Optimistic 1


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Dec 17, 2021)

~Avant~ said:


> I swear you’re a parody of yourself


I swear, it's like you have zero self awareness about how goofy the stuff you say sounds. You refuse to do a little bit of self reflection or even wonder if it's a coincidence that the people who would be effected by this thread's topic are all saying one thing and you're preaching about a law somehow hurting your freedom of speech when it has nothing to do with that really.

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Eros (Dec 17, 2021)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> I swear, it's like you have zero self awareness about how goofy the stuff you say sounds. You refuse to do a little bit of self reflection or even wonder if it's a coincidence that the people who would be effected by this thread's topic are all saying one thing and you're preaching about a law somehow hurting your freedom of speech when it has nothing to do with that really.


Yeah. I mean,  it's like they been dying to hop on a plane to London so they can hit on British women, but now that dream has been shattered into millions of tiny little pieces, and it's the end of the motherfucking world.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## ~Avant~ (Dec 17, 2021)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> I swear, it's like you have zero self awareness about how goofy the stuff you say sounds. You refuse to do a little bit of self reflection or even wonder if it's a coincidence that the people who would be effected by this thread's topic are all saying one thing and you're preaching about a law somehow hurting your freedom of speech when it has nothing to do with that really.



I don’t have a horse in the race no matter how it goes, but I know that victimhood mentality can flex itself from a shield to a noose. I don’t care how many of you there are, right is right. What’s more telling is that at no opportunity did you offer any solutions or actual ideas that can be implemented in any logical or meaningful way, and how you gaslight, misrepresent, ad-hominem, or completely side step. You hide behind your victimhood and wear it like it’s something to be proud of.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 2


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## ~Avant~ (Dec 17, 2021)

The Virtue Signaling Knight, it’s no wonder you’re made of Cardboard


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Dec 18, 2021)

~Avant~ said:


> The Virtue Signaling Knight, it’s no wonder you’re made of Cardboard


You should have left this shit on the cutting room floor. 



~Avant~ said:


> I don’t have a horse in the race no matter how it goes, but I know that victimhood mentality can flex itself from a shield to a noose. I don’t care how many of you there are, right is right. What’s more telling is that at no opportunity did you offer any solutions or actual ideas that can be implemented in any logical or meaningful way, and how you gaslight, misrepresent, ad-hominem, or completely side step. You hide behind your victimhood and wear it like it’s something to be proud of.


Victimhood, I'm a man and despite having had a woman yell at me once it's not some common occurrence. You shield yourself from  empathy and assume that anyone who takes a stance must do so because it benefits them or makes them look good. I don't have that problem. There's no virtue signaling going on because are just the things I believe. You wouldn't catch me yelling at women in the street because that's not something I would do. And I believe women have a right to walk alone without threat of that happening because I think that it is a shitty thing to do. 

Like what do you think? That people like me say all this shit online because it's cool and then go out and act like assholes in public? If I found out that someone I hung out with acted like this I would stop talking to them, there's no excuse for it.

Reactions: Like 2 | Winner 3


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## Corvida (Dec 18, 2021)

Orochibuto said:


> Obviously not all forms of what you would call "street harassment" are covered under law, otherwise this law would be irrelevant. I assume this include one time catcalls, whistling and such.



No

and by the way-women arent dogs

whistling stinks

Your precious freedom of speech isnt impaired becasue you are reminded of basic decency rules

women have the right to walking in public espaces without this kind of shit-fiu fiu, cunt, tiits, look ap, whore, yes, you!"

LEST BREAK THAT PRETTY FACE



“It could be someone shouting degrading, humiliating comments with lewd language to a woman walking down the street that makes them feel unsafe,” 

problem is SO GENDER ESPECIFIC THAT CAMPAIGNS HAVE HAD TO BE MADE


Orochibuto said:


> If this law is gender neutral, then there is no problem in this aspect. But if it isn't, then it would allow women to engage in the behaviors not covered under the current law, while prohibiting men from doing so.



paranoia

wome dont usuall sexuall harass men in the street allowed by centuries of tradition


Orochibuto said:


> We are not talking about threatening, following, cornering and touching, which are presumably already illegal, specially touching.



we are talking of pestering
the full package


_he behaviour would cause “harassment, distress or alarm” with an intent to “humiliate or degrade” an alleged victim.
Dr Charlotte Proudman, a barrister who helped draft the proposed bill, said it would also have to be in the public interest to prosecute.
“It could be someone shouting degrading, humiliating comments with lewd language to a woman walking down the street that makes them feel unsafe,”_



Orochibuto said:


> We are talking specifically about catcalling, which is not covered under the current law hence the title "To be outlawed" rather than "it is outlawed"


street harassing

pestering

being shouted obscenities in the street

thats whow the article started


“But it will call for a public sexual harassment offence, which doesn’t currently exist."

shame, England





Orochibuto said:


> If this law is not gender neutral, then women would be allowed to engage in whatever this law will criminalize, but not men.



you think women usuall sexually harass men on the street?
to ahve fun and assert dominance?


Orochibuto said:


> No, but they are as are currently also men, allowed to engage in whatever behaviors this law will specifically criminalize. If this law only criminalize when it is done to women, then women would be allowed to do so but not men.



what kind of sick mind is this?

In what kind of planet women would be allowed to harass in public espaces?
again 4 out of five women in Spain are harassed


Orochibuto said:


> I am not going to engage in this since it is irrelevant to the discussion.
> 
> We are talking specifically about catcalling and "pestering" as will be defined under this specific law and the law discrimination that would entail if this law is not gender neutral. I am not going to engage into face smashing and rapes, which are obviously illegal already.



There you have the whole package

_In the wake of Miss Everard's killing, ministers said they would consider if there sho*uld be a  that would criminalise explicit sexual and abusive behaviour or comments made in public.
Draft legislation prepared by campaigners covers behaviour including intentionally pressing against someone on public transport, persistent sexual propositioning or cornering someone, making sexually explicit comments, leering at a person and cat-calling.*_

Reactions: Agree 1


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## reiatsuflow (Dec 18, 2021)

Oh wow they're making leering at a person criminal. lol

Reactions: Disagree 1 | Sad! 1


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## Death Certificate (Dec 18, 2021)

Death Certificate said:


> Probably. Most women are cat-called at a very young age.


It's a bit odd how often this point gets dodged by people defending catcalling


Before I post these videos, I thought it would help to get a google search on catcalling, so that there aren't excuses for the semantics some people might use in the future.


Plus to understand the discussion of catcalling prior to Sarah Everard murder within the UK was already heated and asking for reforms within the laws as street harassment wasn't considered the same as sexual harassment



This video is focused on the experiences that minors have to face when catcalled.


This video is two years old, some of the comments are barely different from the arguments listed in this thread ( but at least this place doesn't have a creepy pedo "asking questions about someones age")



Two of the girls featured in the previous video, show up here still campaign and it's more focused on women and girls from all groups.

Both videos referenced how a viral video from France, showing a woman confronting her harasser and getting physically assaulted by the creep. Also mentions how France has issued over 700 fines since then.

The main reason why I am not convinced by arguments of men asking about what could happen to them is that women and girls still lack prevention from street harassment that doesn't resort to being sexually assaulted, raped or murdered before the police or law can actually give a shit to listen. Women and girls from all generations have to face being scared to walking

Also, the idea that this law will affect men more than women is from a place of ignorance that only deserves this answer: #_NotAllMen_
I am serious, catcallers ain't shit

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 2


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## Subarashii (Dec 18, 2021)

Wow, this thread has devolved significantly

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


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## Subarashii (Dec 18, 2021)



Reactions: Funny 1


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## Bazu'aal (Dec 18, 2021)

Subarashii said:


> Wow, this thread has devolved significantly


Nah unless one considers this take a high point in the thread:

"Honestly the Muslims had it right with the _hijab_s. They’re not tools of oppression, they’re tools of protection. We can make evil men go away every where, it’s up to the women to protect herself by decreasing the likelihood that a guy will harass her."

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 5 | Winner 1


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## ~Avant~ (Dec 18, 2021)

Samus Aran said:


> Nah unless one considers this take a high point in the thread:
> 
> "Honestly the Muslims had it right with the _hijab_s. They’re not tools of oppression, they’re tools of protection. We can make evil men go away every where, it’s up to the women to protect herself by decreasing the likelihood that a guy will harass her."


So what’s your great idea again?
I love how you can discount the opinion of 1.9 Billion people
Just say you’re islamophobic

Reactions: Disagree 1 | Dislike 1


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## Corvida (Dec 18, 2021)

Xelioszzapporro said:


> I think it is because ''rape'' is hard to define.








Xelioszzapporro said:


> People have their own definition? I guess.








~Avant~ said:


> So what’s your great idea again?


Covering a woman like a table cloth wont stop or defend anything


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## reiatsuflow (Dec 18, 2021)

Not sure if I should defend avant or not but island made fun of him so now I'm honor bound to defend him.


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## Gin (Dec 18, 2021)

reiatsuflow said:


> Not sure if I should defend avant or not but island made fun of him so now I'm honor bound to defend him.


"women are responsible for covering themselves up so they don't tempt potential rapists" is not a hill you want to die on, even your good natured contrarianism may find it hard to bounce back from that one


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## reiatsuflow (Dec 18, 2021)

Gin said:


> "women are responsible for covering themselves up so they don't tempt potential rapists" is not a hill you want to die on, even your good natured contrarianism may find it hard to bounce back from that one



Now I have to give it a shot  


@~Avant~ you'd have to bend some of these people's arms for them to admit women have any responsibility whatsoever in deterring men from harassing them. 

This is probably why people need kids, or at least nieces and nephews, because it teaches you what's so, not what's ideal. An entire childless generation of adults is just completely out of synch with some stuff. There's a reason parents would be nervous about their teenage daughter going out showing too much skin. They know it's inviting in some way. That doesn't mean it's her fault if something bad happens and that doesn't mean it's fair she can't dress how she wants and not invite negative attention, but again, it's just what's so and have some common sense when you're frolicking around a bunch of horny naked apes (men) who should not harass you and certainly not assault you, but apes don't always do what they're supposed to.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Disagree 2


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## reiatsuflow (Dec 18, 2021)

I know I don't always wear my miniskirts when I go out. Especially when I'm in new clubs and don't have a read for how rowdy they are.

But that's just me. Common sense.


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## Bazu'aal (Dec 18, 2021)

~Avant~ said:


> So what’s your great idea again?
> I love how you can discount the opinion of 1.9 Billion people
> Just say you’re islamophobic


I already said women shouldn't exist. 


Edit: Just realized you called me Islamophobic -lmao when people choose to wear it I have no problem. Your inference is that women should cover up to stay away from catcalling men. Newsflash: even fully clothed women get constantly catcalled.  So your take on this topic is quite ignorant. Hell another example of this abhorrent behavior is online gaming -women get catcalled and harassed online all the time and it's not like the guys doing it can actually see them. So the whole take that "hey women should dress more conservative" is a dumb red herring.

Reactions: Funny 2 | Winner 2


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## Bazu'aal (Dec 18, 2021)

Like seriously, the problem isn't women. It's the fact that many men in many societies don't treat them like people is the problem.

Reactions: Agree 2 | Winner 1


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## GRIMMM (Dec 18, 2021)

Death Certificate said:


> It's a bit odd how often this point gets dodged by people defending catcalling
> 
> 
> Before I post these videos, I thought it would help to get a google search on catcalling, so that there aren't excuses for the semantics some people might use in the future.
> ...


As with most "muh freedom" talking points done by Libertarians, it comes down to paedophilia.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Gin (Dec 18, 2021)

nah fuck islam

(fuck christianity too)

Reactions: Funny 2 | Disagree 1


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## GRIMMM (Dec 18, 2021)

Gin said:


> nah fuck islam
> 
> (fuck christianity too)


Fuck every last one of them.

Reactions: Funny 1 | Disagree 1


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## reiatsuflow (Dec 18, 2021)

This is irrelevant to the OP but it might-could carry us another 20 pages 

In all seriousness, is anyone here suggesting if you walk outside wearing your short shorts and showing lots of boobage you're in just as much stranger danger as if you walk around in a little house on the prairie outfit? 

That talking point was big when I was growing up but it always felt similar to the whole "rape isn't about sex, it's about power" thing; a well-meaning but untrue feminist reframe of uncomfortable realities.

Yes, little house of the prairie women can still be harassed or attacked, but the exceptions don't prove the rules and people do respond to the way we present ourselves in public. The way we dress isn't meaningless. It's not the _cause_ or origin of assault, but it's a factor that grown adult should be able to acknowledge without tripping into feeling like they're rape apologists or something. Women aren't children, acknowledging a factor in their dress doesn't invalidate their humanity or mean it's entirely their fault if something bad happens to them.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Disagree 3


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## Gin (Dec 18, 2021)

and women of islam only "choose" to dress that way because they've been gaslit into believing a bunch of nonsense perpetuated primarily by men


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## Gin (Dec 18, 2021)

reiatsuflow said:


> This is irrelevant to the OP but it might-could carry us another 20 pages
> 
> In all seriousness, is anyone here suggesting if you walk outside wearing your short shorts and showing lots of boobage you're in just as much stranger danger as if you walk around in a little house on the prairie outfit?
> 
> ...


women who dress in an extremely revealing way should realistically anticipate more male attention, that's common sense, but even if they walked around nude she shouldn't be considered to be "asking" to be harassed

Reactions: Agree 1 | Winner 2


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## Jim (Dec 18, 2021)

You know, I scroll down the forum so many times and miss the word "pestering" and have to glance back to read the title of this thread correctly, lol


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## Subarashii (Dec 18, 2021)

~Avant~ said:


> So what’s your great idea again?
> I love how you can discount the opinion of 1.9 Billion people
> Just say you’re islamophobic


No, you’re just sexist if you think a man can’t control himself, that’s he ruled only by his base, animal instincts and can’t use his fucking brain. You might be that way, but most men.


reiatsuflow said:


> Now I have to give it a shot
> 
> 
> @~Avant~ you'd have to bend some of these people's arms for them to admit women have any responsibility whatsoever in deterring men from harassing them.
> ...


Bro, how much catcalling do you see on a public beach? How many rapes occur on them? There are topless beaches in Europe, are they rampant with gropings?


GRIMMM said:


> Fuck every last one of them.


Hey, I’m not just any Christian, I’m a cool Christian


reiatsuflow said:


> This is irrelevant to the OP but it might-could carry us another 20 pages
> 
> In all seriousness, is anyone here suggesting if you walk outside wearing your short shorts and showing lots of boobage you're in just as much stranger danger as if you walk around in a little house on the prairie outfit?
> 
> ...


Male gaze? Sure, it’s expected. Male yelling and harassment? No, sir, I don’t think so. And if you think rape isn’t about power, man are you willfully ignorant.
Yeah a dude may be horny when he starts,  but once their partner says no, and they continue, it’s not about sex anymore, it’s about taking something from someone else. Something you think you deserve. Something you think you’re entitled to.

Reactions: Winner 2


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## Gin (Dec 18, 2021)

I wondered when the guy was gonna display his full power level in this thread

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Pilaf (Dec 18, 2021)

Gin said:


> I wondered when the guy was gonna display his full power level in this thread



This isn't even his final form.

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Eros (Dec 18, 2021)

Pilaf said:


> This isn't even his final form.


He is the creepiest dude on this forum since that creep from Napoli.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Pilaf (Dec 18, 2021)

Shinra Kusakabe said:


> He is the creepiest dude on this forum since that creep from Napoli.



Bob or vagen?

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Pilaf (Dec 18, 2021)

I am genuinely curious if some of these dudes have ever spoken to a woman in their lives.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Dec 18, 2021)

Pilaf said:


> I am genuinely curious if some of these dudes have ever spoken to a woman in their lives.


Other than their mother and possibly a sister or aunt or something? It doesn't seem like they have. They seem to have a generally toxic idea about what women are supposed to put up with in their heads. 

So even if a woman took an interest in them for friendship or anything else she would probably be weirded out or scared off.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Jim (Dec 18, 2021)

Pilaf said:


> I am genuinely curious if some of these dudes have ever spoken to a woman in their lives.


I've never even seen a woman in my life
j/k

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Subarashii (Dec 18, 2021)

Gin said:


> wow that's some shit tier reading comprehension bro, did you just totally ignore the part about it not being abuse at all and that he's being stoic???


Totally not abusing a drunk woman and remaining stoic:

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 1 | Winner 1


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## Eros (Dec 18, 2021)

Pilaf said:


> Bob or vagen?



This is your only other clue if you don't know to whom I am referring.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Corvida (Dec 18, 2021)

reiatsuflow said:


> This is irrelevant to the OP but it might-could carry us another 20 pages
> 
> In all seriousness, is anyone here suggesting if you walk outside wearing your short shorts and showing lots of boobage you're in just as much stranger danger as if you walk around in a little house on the prairie outfit?
> 
> ...


Bollocks

This mentality must end


as revolting as 60 year old judges and their

HOW LONG WAS YOUR SKIRT?

WERE YOU ALONE?

WHY?


the best one-and its real SHE DIDNT RESIST ENOUGH AND SEEMED TO BE ENJOYING IT




Subarashii said:


> Male gaze? Sure, it’s expected. Male yelling and harassment? No, sir, I don’t think so. And if you think rape isn’t about power, man are you willfully ignorant.
> Yeah a dude may be horny when he starts,  but once their partner says no, and they continue, it’s not about sex anymore, it’s about taking something from someone else. Something you think you deserve. Something you think you’re entitled to.


Exactly

Same about following , insulting, yelling obscenities,  scaring or cornering women

Power is funnnnnn

Reactions: Agree 1 | Winner 1


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## Eros (Dec 18, 2021)

reiatsuflow said:


> This is irrelevant to the OP but it might-could carry us another 20 pages
> 
> In all seriousness, is anyone here suggesting if you walk outside wearing your short shorts and showing lots of boobage you're in just as much stranger danger as if you walk around in a little house on the prairie outfit?
> 
> ...


So, you would totally lose your shit if you went to a nude beach? Literally, just the sight of women naked is all you need to break the law and become a violent sexual predator? I have news for you. If that is so, then you are the problem, not the women. Women do not exist for your entertainment and pleasure. There is so much more to them than just breasts, vaginas, and uteruses.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Dec 18, 2021)

Corvida said:


> Bollocks
> 
> This mentality must end
> 
> ...


Or even stuff like "why were you drinking" -- "how much did you have to drink". 

The thing is that these men in here want to claim that this is unfair to men, but when it comes to women's right to exist in public and do the things that men do like drink alone and walk around the streets these guys are all like "why were you doing that? It's your fault for not being more careful." 

Like they don't respect women's rights because they don't see women as like them or people. It's pretty obvious.

Reactions: Winner 2


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Dec 18, 2021)

Shinra Kusakabe said:


> So, you would totally lose your shit if you went to a nude beach? Literally, just the sight of women naked is all you need to break the law and become a violent sexual predator? I have news for you. If that is so, then you are the problem, not the women. Women do not exist for your entertainment and pleasure. There is so much more to them than just breasts, vaginas, and uteruses.


There's a nude deck on some cruise ships and I don't even know how some of these guys around here would function if they knew there was an exposed tiddy nearby.


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## Corvida (Dec 18, 2021)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Or even stuff like "why were you drinking" -- "how much did you have to drink".




Hell yes

Had forgotten that!

Same as age old-did you resist enough?


Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> The thing is that these men in here want to claim that this is unfair to men, but when it comes to women's right to exist in public and do the things that men do like drink alone and walk around the streets these guys are all like "why were you doing that? It's your fault for not being more careful."



and men are in eternall heat

WHAT WERE YOPU THINKING WEARING THAT T SHIRT?





Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Like they don't respect women's rights because they don't see women as like them or people. It's pretty obvious.


Tale as od as time

girls beware wolves


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## Eros (Dec 18, 2021)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> There's a nude deck on some cruise ships and I don't even know how some of these guys around here would function if they knew there was an exposed tiddy nearby.


I have been on a cruise with a nude deck. I was too busy gambling, swimming, and eating.


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## Pilaf (Dec 18, 2021)

Shinra Kusakabe said:


> So, you would totally lose your shit if you went to a nude beach? Literally, just the sight of women naked is all you need to break the law and become a violent sexual predator? I have news for you. If that is so, then you are the problem, not the women. Women do not exist for your entertainment and pleasure. There is so much more to them than just breasts, vaginas, and uteruses.



Dude, I wish there were good looking naked women on nudist beaches. It's mostly old wrinkled dudes.

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Eros (Dec 18, 2021)

Pilaf said:


> Dude, I wish there were good looking naked women on nudist beaches. It's mostly old wrinkled dudes.


That's unfortunate.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Pilaf (Dec 18, 2021)

Shinra Kusakabe said:


> That's unfortunate.



Yes. And nobody knows shit about Poke'mon or Hegelian Dialectics.

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Dec 18, 2021)

Shinra Kusakabe said:


> I have been on a cruise with a nude deck. I was too busy gambling, swimming, and eating.


I used to go up there on the cruise ships to get drinks faster because their bar was always emptier.

Reactions: Funny 1 | Useful 1


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## Jim (Dec 18, 2021)

23 pages omg

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Subarashii (Dec 18, 2021)



Reactions: Funny 2


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## Gin (Dec 18, 2021)

Jim said:


> 23 pages omg


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## Eros (Dec 18, 2021)



Reactions: Funny 1


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## reiatsuflow (Dec 18, 2021)

Corvida said:


> Bollocks
> 
> This mentality must end
> 
> ...





Shinra Kusakabe said:


> So, you would totally lose your shit if you went to a nude beach? Literally, just the sight of women naked is all you need to break the law and become a violent sexual predator? I have news for you. If that is so, then you are the problem, not the women. Women do not exist for your entertainment and pleasure. There is so much more to them than just breasts, vaginas, and uteruses.




You're ignoring what I'm saying, only replying to what it sounds like I'm saying, like you just read around the edges of my post and then started replying.


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## reiatsuflow (Dec 18, 2021)

Let us attempt to hold two opposing thoughts in our head at the same time without our brains exploding.

The way a woman dresses is not to blame should she be harassed. _and _a woman who dresses in a sexy scantily clad way is attracting more sexual attentions than a woman who dresses conservatively.

These two things are simultaneously true. One truth does not kill the other. The are not competing with each other like idea highlanders.

They are both true at the same time. 

Meditate on this. Ascend to the plane of common sense.

Reactions: Like 1 | Dislike 1


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## ~Avant~ (Dec 18, 2021)

Samus Aran said:


> Like seriously, the problem isn't women. It's the fact that many men in many societies don't treat them like people is the problem.


Exactly.

Even if you made a law that prevented 95% of men from cat calling, assaulting, or raping women, that 5% still equals millions of women being raped.

That 5% are usually incited by women who show a lot of skin. Ergo the hijab. It’s not a solution, but it’s definitely a preventative measure which is why it is so strongly enforced in Middle Eastern countries.

Or get a gun.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## reiatsuflow (Dec 18, 2021)

also again please do not read my posts imagining this 



because it ruins the aura

Reactions: Funny 3


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## reiatsuflow (Dec 18, 2021)

Judging by all the likes and agrees it seems I made a new friend with avant


please don't say anything crazy going forward or we'll both look bad


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## Gin (Dec 18, 2021)

"if you don't want to be raped, dress like a nun"

and

"nooo how could you limit MUH FREEDUMZ to say sexually explicit shit to random women on the street"

limiting the victims' freedom is somehow preferable to limiting the freedom of people victimizing them

the logic of the incel brain is fascinating, there need to be studies

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1 | Winner 1


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## Eros (Dec 18, 2021)

reiatsuflow said:


> Judging by all the likes and agrees it seems I made a new friend with avant
> 
> 
> please don't say anything crazy going forward or we'll both look bad


Well, you can go to a Trump rally together.


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## reiatsuflow (Dec 18, 2021)

Shinra Kusakabe said:


> Well, you can go to a Trump rally together.



No they're full of FBI agents now.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Eros (Dec 18, 2021)

reiatsuflow said:


> No they're full of FBI agents now.


Fascinating.


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## Orochibuto (Dec 18, 2021)

Corvida said:


> as revolting as 60 year old judges and their
> 
> HOW LONG WAS YOUR SKIRT?
> 
> ...



Do you have any post year 2000 example in any western democratic country where a judge literally let a guy accused of rape or assault go under the argument of "But look at what she was wearing!" argument?

Any example of where a defense lawyer successfully argued in a court against rape or assault charges using these arguments?


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## Gin (Dec 18, 2021)

Orochibuto said:


> Do you have any post year 2000 example in any western democratic country where a judge literally let a guy accused of rape or assault go under the argument of "But look at what she was wearing!" argument?
> 
> Any example of where a defense lawyer successfully argued in a court against rape or assault charges using these arguments?



literally killed herself due to being degraded in court due to the argument that her clothing led her rapist on

this was early 2000s 

then a similar case was made against another rape victim in 2018


so yeah, it happens, a lot of bullshit can go down in court, even if there's eventually a conviction then some slimeball defense lawyer's still gonna try everything he can to shame the victim and get their rapist client off

Reactions: Agree 2 | Winner 1


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## reiatsuflow (Dec 18, 2021)

That actually makes sense on second thought. If someone accuses you of rape and you dispute, you have to try to prove her intent to have sex with you the same way you'd try to prove someone's intent to murder i.e. they had a knife on them.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## reiatsuflow (Dec 18, 2021)

Now I'm wondering how often that is used in american court cases. Not something as salacious as holding up the underwear in court, but situations where the defendant is trying to prove the woman's intent to have sex with him for reasonable doubt. Where do they go to prove intent?


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## Bazu'aal (Dec 18, 2021)

~Avant~ said:


> Exactly.
> 
> Even if you made a law that prevented 95% of men from cat calling, assaulting, or raping women, that 5% still equals millions of women being raped.
> 
> ...


What is with you and this shit take? The fact that they still get harassed even when the guy doesn't even know what they look like (or if they are heavily clothed), like in online gaming demonstrates that it isn't how much skin being shown being the problem.

Hell just this morning I saw this guy drive up to two women crossing the street clothed in heavy winter coats and still was whistling at them and catcalling them. The problem for the umpteenth time isn't women so stop focusing on them. There will always be outliers, that doesn't mean we dont try to solve the problem by blaming the victims or by doing nothing at all.

Your literal opinion on this is "hey maybe we just limit what women should wear instead of going after the literal people causing the problem." For all the whinging about freedom of speech in this thread, there are people like you who think it's a good idea to limit the literal freedom of women to wear what they want in order to even participate in society in peace. That's ass backwards. In addition women don't do this shit to guys as much - which tells us that the problem is in how cultures make it ok for guys to do this shit and actively encourage it. And then your next take is to shoot a guy being an asshole. Dude, look how deranged you sound. Imagine if we used for your logic laws regarding murder: "ah jeez you guys, people are gonna kill no matter what, I think it's better if everyone simply had a gun instead of you know, prosecuting those that are actually killing people on purpose."

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2 | Winner 2


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## Subarashii (Dec 18, 2021)

Orochibuto said:


> Do you have any post year 2000 example in any western democratic country where a judge literally let a guy accused of rape or assault go under the argument of "But look at what she was wearing!" argument?
> 
> Any example of where a defense lawyer successfully argued in a court against rape or assault charges using these arguments?


Its in 1998 but it's still protesting it today

2020

Here's a list of a few cases

@reiatsuflow could benefit from reading this too, displays if the clothes women were wearing when they were raped:

Reactions: Agree 1 | Winner 1 | Informative 1


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## Island (Dec 18, 2021)

Okay, between the return of the hijab discussion and that remark about groping unconscious women, I think this thread has reached its end.

Reactions: Funny 2 | Disagree 2 | Sad! 1


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