# DBZ Characters vs. Any Flying Superhuman Speed Superhuman Strength Comic Character.



## Kuya (Dec 5, 2006)

It seems that the heavy hitters of DBZ, mainly Goku, Gohan, and Vegeta keep getting worked in most battles that involve them fighting a hero/villain that flies, has superhuman speed, and superhuman strength. 

I know many noobs and fanboyz usually pick DBZ characters, but the members here who have seniority and lots of post usually put forth a great argument for the comic character and provide great scans.

So ultimatley, the comic character usually wins the battle.

So in this thread. Can you list who you think Goku or Gohan or Vegeta (at their peak in DBZ) can beat who at least can fly, has superhuman speed, and superhuman strenght as their abilties? And if ya want who they cannot, but i mostly wanna see who the DBZ characters can beat.

(not sure if this belongs in the Meta-Dome)

Thank You.


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## mystictrunks (Dec 5, 2006)

Bryne era Superman,would probably get beaten by a DBZ charecter.


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## Thanatos (Dec 5, 2006)

This probably does belong in the meta-dome. Unfortunately, I have nothing to contribute.


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## CrazyMoronX (Dec 5, 2006)

Captain Britain.


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## mystictrunks (Dec 5, 2006)

Almost any DBZ charecter could own ArchAngel(yes he is super strong)


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## Thanatos (Dec 5, 2006)

Hawkman probably couldn't stand up to the likes of them (unsure about speed, but he definitely has superhuman strength).


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## Enclave (Dec 5, 2006)

Captain Canada has quite a effective power set and could probably deal with Dragonball characters (at least from what little I know of him)


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## Birkin (Dec 5, 2006)

DBZ prime characters > all

<3


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## Kai (Dec 5, 2006)

I would say Goku would effectively defeat Storm. She would get speedblitzed and Kienzand to pieces. 

I thought this fight would be more interesting because the title said Dbz character*s*...


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## Kisame. (Dec 5, 2006)

Why are people using the weak flyers...No ones going to throw out Sentry, Thor, Silver Surfer, Captain Marvel, Martian Manhunter?


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## CrazyMoronX (Dec 5, 2006)

Kisame said:


> Why are people using the weak flyers...No ones going to throw out Sentry, Thor, Silver Surfer, Captain Marvel, Martian Manhunter?


 
Because generally, DBZ cannot beat them? :amazed


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## Orion (Dec 5, 2006)

Kisame said:


> Why are people using the weak flyers...No ones going to throw out Sentry, Thor, Silver Surfer, Captain Marvel, Martian Manhunter?



because your suppose to post people the dbz guys can beat lol.


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## Kisame. (Dec 5, 2006)

> And if ya want who they cannot, but i mostly wanna see who the DBZ characters can beat.


^

Wondering why at least one person didnt post who they cannot.


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## CrazyMoronX (Dec 5, 2006)

Nobody wants to see DBZ get its ass kicked, again. It's so last month.


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## Slips (Dec 5, 2006)

Tylenol Girl said:


> Captain Britain.




Depends wasnt he almost godlike at one point with certian objects


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## Kuya (Dec 5, 2006)

Space said:


> I would say Goku would effectively defeat Storm. She would get speedblitzed and Kienzand to pieces.
> 
> I thought this fight would be more interesting because the title said Dbz character*s*...



Storm has superhuman speed and superhuman strength?

And how would u want it more interesting??? You can go check out some of the DBZ fights i made...

- Vegeta vs. Juggernaught and War Hulk
- Goku and Vegeta vs. Silver Surfer
- Piccolo vs. Fantastic 4
- Goku vs. Magneto 
- Goku and Gohan vs. Gladiator and Thor

There's was one fight where i made all the Saiyans vs. Blackbolt, and they got murdered.


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## Orion (Dec 5, 2006)

vegeta versus juggs and WAR HULK.......lmfao wow vegeta must of took it hard in the ass in that thread.


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## Crimson King (Dec 5, 2006)

Superman Prime

'nuff said


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## Vynjira (Dec 5, 2006)

vlaaad12345 said:


> vegeta versus juggs and WAR HULK.......lmfao wow vegeta must of took it hard in the ass in that thread.



Piccolo isn't feeling much better by the looks of it...

Iron Man is a candidate for arse kickin tho.


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## Kuya (Dec 5, 2006)

vlaaad12345 said:


> vegeta versus juggs and WAR HULK.......lmfao wow vegeta must of took it hard in the ass in that thread.



there was good arguments on both sides. They don't have the speed to make much contact with Vegeta, and Vegeta doesn't have much physical force to impact them so it was a long thread. Go try and read it, i believe it had 500+ posts.


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## Orion (Dec 5, 2006)

^^except that war hulk would only have to do a thunderclap and vegeta would be on the ground.


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## Kuya (Dec 5, 2006)

vlaaad12345 said:


> ^^except that war hulk would only have to do a thunderclap and vegeta would be on the ground.



Yup that was brought up in the debate too.


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## Orion (Dec 5, 2006)

i dont see how it was a debate,juggernaut and hulk have like endless stamina,eventually vegeta would tire and then die.


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## atom (Dec 5, 2006)

Vegeta + Moon = Power beyond Hulk


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## Orion (Dec 5, 2006)

^^sure bijuu just like goku beats flash.


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## exmorte (Dec 5, 2006)

Welll... superban!...

Oh and Captain Planet would totaly get pwnt, and the he would come back and win. So he sorta got defeated, only it happens one time and thats it!


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## atom (Dec 5, 2006)

> ^^sure bijuu just like goku beats flash.


Yeah, you finally learned eh?


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## Orion (Dec 5, 2006)

its called sarcasm.


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## atom (Dec 5, 2006)

But really, I think Wonder Woman would be a great match for Vegeta.


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## Kuya (Dec 5, 2006)

Bijuukage said:


> But really, I think Wonder Woman would be a great match for Vegeta.



I made a Vegeta vs. Wonder Woman fight. Look it up. I think it was an even fight. Then Endless Mike came and showed scans of her going FTL.


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## ram619 (Dec 5, 2006)

freeza can destroy a planet.

cell can wipe out the entire solar system.

buu can destroy galaxy,dimensions,space time continuum/universe.

ssj4goku>freeza,cell,buu


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## atom (Dec 5, 2006)

> Then Endless Mike came and showed scans of her going FTL.


Yeah, but it wasn't because she COULD go that fast, it was because she was punched and therefore went that fast (even though, I personally believe it was a plot hole). Bump the thread back up!


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## Vicious (Dec 5, 2006)

> buu can destroy galaxy,dimensions,space time continuum/universe.
> 
> ssj4goku>freeza,cell,buu


proof ?, i didnt see any universe being destroyed or space time continuum.?!


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## Orion (Dec 5, 2006)

Bijuukage said:


> Yeah, but it wasn't because she COULD go that fast, it was because she was punched and therefore went that fast (even though, I personally believe it was a plot hole). Bump the thread back up!



no she actually went that fast as well in the scans.


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## ram619 (Dec 5, 2006)

vegetto vs. super buu (gohan,piccolo,goten and trunks inside)

=when super buu lose himself he nearly destroy space time continuum (will lead to destruction of the universe) and creates a force field so no one can prevent him but vegetto prevented him by penetrating at his force field.


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## Orion (Dec 5, 2006)

^^i dont ever remember the space time continium or the universe being even close to being destroyed in the buu fight.


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## Vicious (Dec 5, 2006)

lol......space time continuum


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## atom (Dec 5, 2006)

> no she actually went that fast as well in the scans.


Yes, she went the speed of light. But it isnt because she was going that fast because she can fly that fast, it was because they were in space and Superman punched her FTL to the Earth, and since there is no air resistance, or pretty much no resistance, she just kept on going faster.. then boom.


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## SoulTaker (Dec 5, 2006)

ram619 said:


> freeza can destroy a planet.



He can,but he couldn't outright destroy Namek with 50% of his power even when he went specifically after the core.



ram619 said:


> cell can wipe out the entire solar system.



We've been over this and there is strong evidence he was bluffing.And let me just ask you,if he fired off a kamehame ha that strong and Gohan matched it,then where did all of that energy go and why didn't it rip the planet apart?



ram619 said:


> buu can destroy galaxy,dimensions,space time continuum/universe.
> 
> ssj4goku>freeza,cell,buu



That was filler.

I see no problem with the last part except that you're bringing up GT which isn't canon and totally craptacular.


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## Kuya (Dec 6, 2006)

Bijuukage said:


> Yeah, but it wasn't because she COULD go that fast, it was because she was punched and therefore went that fast (even though, I personally believe it was a plot hole). Bump the thread back up!



I'll try and find it after i do my report. If not i'll bring it back to the front page of the OB tomorrow.


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## Endless Mike (Dec 6, 2006)

Base Captain Britain, Byrne era Superman, Hulk at normal strength levels, Iron Man, etc.



ram619 said:


> freeza can destroy a planet.



True.



> cell can wipe out the entire solar system.



Or so he claimed....



> buu can destroy galaxy,dimensions,space time continuum/universe.



Bullshit. Never even hinted at in canon.



> ssj4goku>freeza,cell,buu



Not going by feats. And GT is non - canon anyway.

EDIT: Oh, yes, and Wonder Woman can go at least lightspeed on her own power, she chased Jesse Quick into the Speedforce and escaped a black hole.


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## Enclave (Dec 6, 2006)

Kisame said:


> Why are people using the weak flyers...No ones going to throw out Sentry, Thor, Silver Surfer, Captain Marvel, Martian Manhunter?



I had decided that they were too well known.  Captain Canada on the other hand is not well known at all.


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## ram619 (Dec 6, 2006)

dbz is at lightspeed,coz we can see images because of light basically how can leave an images (just what ssj gotenks did) if you are slower than light,that is basic physics.

answer that first and if you answer that correctly,i will believe that dbz is not at lightspeed.

cell did claim that he can wipe out the entire solar system.

destroying a dimesion wall as big as the earth will destroy the space time continuum,dont need to hint that coz its fact.

i know silver surfer can demolish planets but can he wipe out the entire solar system without any participation of destroying first the sun.


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## Kisame. (Dec 6, 2006)

> he wipe out the entire solar system without any participation of destroying first the sun.


 
well since he did destroy a galaxy just to throw Thanos off his trail..


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## ram619 (Dec 6, 2006)

ok,but can he destroy the space time continuum.


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## Crimson King (Dec 6, 2006)

ram619 said:


> ok,but can he destroy the space time continuum.



bullshit. No character can destroy it. Stop throwing around random words. You don't even have proof that dbz characters can even go FTL while we ahve proof they can;t even go FTS. They never make sonicbooms when they travel.


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## Nexas (Dec 6, 2006)

ram619 said:


> ok,but can he destroy the space time continuum.



Can anyone from DBZ?


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## ram619 (Dec 6, 2006)

super buu (gohan,piccolo,goten/trunks inside) can but vegetto prevented him.


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## Crimson King (Dec 6, 2006)

Vegetto prevented Buu from destroy Earth.


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## ram619 (Dec 6, 2006)

destroying a dimesion wall as big as the earth will destroy the space time continuum,dont need to hint that coz its fact.

we always see dbz characters raise their ki and they alter gravity,through ki manipulation/control they can increase their speed.that is a reason why they dont make sonic booms.

if you based your opinion at physics then why does superman move the planet earth.every planet has gravity and puting much force to move it will alter its gravity and rip it in half.explain that...........


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## ram619 (Dec 6, 2006)

to add more,how can you explain (pre-post crisis,allstar,secundus,m*/prime) superman's ability to fly if he's not telekinetic,not magic and cannot release his bioelectric aura.


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## potential (Dec 6, 2006)

^nuff said. Also he you think goku cant go faster than the speed of sound than youre high


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## ram619 (Dec 6, 2006)

dbz is at lightspeed,coz we can see images because of light basically how can ssj gotenks leaves a trail of light around the planet even he is still moving around if he is slower than light,that is basic physics.

answer that first and if you answer that correctly,i will believe that dbz is not at lightspeed.


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## The Space Cowboy (Dec 6, 2006)

Doctor Solar, Man of the Atom, takes any Dragonball Z character and curbstomps them so badly that they'll be picking up their elementary particles for aeons.  

He accidently destroyed the universe, and then recreated it.


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## ram619 (Dec 6, 2006)

destroying a dimesion wall as big as the earth will destroy the space time continuum,dont need to hint that coz its fact.

we always see dbz characters raise their ki and they alter gravity,through ki manipulation/control they can increase their speed.that is a reason why they dont make sonic booms.

if you based your opinion at physics then why does superman move the planet earth.every planet has gravity and puting much force to move it will alter its gravity and rip it in half.explain that...........

to add more,how can you explain (pre-post crisis,allstar,secundus,m*/prime) superman's ability to fly if he's not telekinetic,not magic and cannot release his bioelectric aura.

dbz is at lightspeed,coz we can see images because of light basically how can ssj gotenks leaves a trail of light around the planet even he is still moving around if he is slower than light,that is basic physics.

answer that first and if you answer that correctly,i will believe that dbz is not at lightspeed.


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## ram619 (Dec 7, 2006)

picking up their elementary particles for aeons depends on how strong dbz characters ki.


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## The Space Cowboy (Dec 7, 2006)

Gotenks leaves an image of light because he is faster than the hypothetical camera's shutter speed, not faster than light.  It's called persistence of vision.

And if you want to invoke "basic physics" here, moving at lightspeed would be a really crappy idea anyhow because of time dilation and whatnot.  Years would pass for your opponent.  They'd have all the planning time they needed to beat you bloody.  There's also questions of relativistic mass, and actually stopping.


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## ram619 (Dec 7, 2006)

nope its not about the camera,they did show those in manga canon (majin-buu arc).

and ssj gotenks did take a nap after that.

i said they move at lightspeed through ki manipulation/control just as how they can fly.


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## ram619 (Dec 7, 2006)

explain too why superman fly and moves a planet without destroying it.
coz its impossible in the law of science.


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## The Space Cowboy (Dec 7, 2006)

With Doctor Solar owning pretty much every fundamental force in the universe, a Dragonball Z character has no chance, period.  All the Ki in the world won't help them.  Neither will universe destroying attacks.  

Planet busters?  Pfeh.  Like popguns.  It's like stacking someone up against the Lord of Nightmares or the Shrike.  Dragonball Z isn't even in the same league.  

Can we please stop it with the DBZ vs anyone threads?  This is like the tenth variation I've seen.


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## ram619 (Dec 7, 2006)

there was only two i know that can beat dbz its dc's the presence and marvel's one above all coz they created their universe.

lord of nightmare didnt even shown how to fight so dont include that.

about doctor solar his not that godlike since he use a machine:

One day, Seleski and his colleagues were testing a new type of fusion reactor. When an accidental breach threatened to decimate the entire area, Seleski rushed to shut down the reactor. He succeeded, but he was exposed to lethal doses of radiation in the process. Amazingly, the exposure didn't kill him. Instead, it gave him an ability to manipulate energy. Seleski tried to use his powers for the good of mankind. He became determined to destroy the world's supply of nuclear weapons. The US government tried to stop him. Unfortunately, their efforts caused Seleski to lose control of his powers, which in turn caused Earth to fall into a giant black hole.

 Solar by Neal AdamsSeleski wound up thrown several weeks back in time (or so he thought). The guilt over his role in destruction of his world caused him to split into two beings: Doctor Solar, who believed himself to be Seleski's childhood hero; and Phil Seleski, who retained all the memories of the original. Seleski sought to prevent an accident that gave him powers from taking place. His efforts were complicated by the presence of Doctor Solar, who was convinced that Seleski was a dangerous criminal. Eventually, Seleski managed to convince his alter-ego that they needed to work together. They fused with the past version of Seleski and prevented the accident. In the process, they discovered that Seleski's fusion reactor was actually a "wish machine" that allowed anyone within close proximity to change the universe in any way they saw fit. Before the original accident, Seleski wished that he could become his childhood superhero. As the result, the reactor simulated the events that gave the original Doctor Solar his powers. Seleski also found out that he didn't travel to the past. After falling into a black hole, he tried to recreate his universe. For the most part, he succeeded. However, there were several important differences, the most important of which was that Earth was now populated by a large number of super-powered beings.

The revelations inspired Seleski to take up the mantle of his childhood hero. He became known as Solar, Man of the Atom.


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## ram619 (Dec 7, 2006)

its not only planet buster dude,(Volume 35 / 19, Page 98) Complete Cell: "HA HA HA HAAAA!!! I HAVE ENOUGH CHI TO BLOW AWAY THE ENTIRE SOLAR SYSTEM!!!!" 

majin-boo is known to have a power that can wipe out galaxies and he almost destroy the space time continuum by breaking earth's dimension wall if vegetto hadnt stop him.


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## The Space Cowboy (Dec 7, 2006)

I see you can use wikipedia too.  Good job.



> lord of nightmare didnt even shown how to fight so dont include that



The LoN is so ridiculously powerful she doesn't need to deal with something as pedestrian as fighting.  She just unmakes you, no ifs, ands, or buts.  But that's off the subject as you misread Wikipedia.



> its not only planet buster dude,(Volume 35 / 19, Page 98) Complete Cell: "HA HA HA HAAAA!!! I HAVE ENOUGH CHI TO BLOW AWAY THE ENTIRE SOLAR SYSTEM!!!!"
> 
> majin-boo is known to have a power that can wipe out galaxies and he almost destroy the space time continuum by breaking earth's dimension wall if vegetto hadnt stop him.



You need to read more sci-fi.  Cell's feat of destroying solar systems is actually pretty easy, and common.  I know of one fictional civilization that was prone to doing it with a missile fired through hyperspace that collapsed everything into a supermassive black hole.   Hell, even the Galactic Empire can blow up Solar Systems (The Suncrusher).

Seleski's machine gave him the powers OF his childhood superhero, which just happened to be that ridiculously uber.  The machine, however, was a once-off thing.  He doesn't use it to survive as Docter Solar.

And anyhow...attacks of that caliber are kinda meaningless, as he to some extent recreated his entire universe, and consequently the time-space continuum associated with it. 

Buu in this case, is like bringing a sword to an ICBM fight.


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## ram619 (Dec 7, 2006)

kickero:You need to read more sci-fi. Cell's feat of destroying solar systems is actually pretty easy, and common. I know of one fictional civilization that was prone to doing it with a missile fired through hyperspace that collapsed everything into a supermassive black hole. Hell, even the Galactic Empire can blow up Solar Systems (The Suncrusher).

reply:
superman disarmed a mageddon warhead that is capable of wiping out galaxies.
warhead/missile can be disarmed that is its weakness.
cell's ki doesnt need any participation of the blackhole to wipe out anything.his ki was enough and cannot be disarmed unlike warhead/missile.
besides dbz are like blackhole that alter gravity.

without that wish machine doctor solaris cant do that,besides he did not destroy the universe he accidentally caused the earth to fall into the blackhole and decides to create his own universe through wish machine.

since LON created the slayers multiverse just like the presence/one above all,ok i admit that he is stronger.


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## Vicious (Dec 7, 2006)

LON is a omnipotent, if not, shes a very very powerful nign-omnipotent. she also created the multiverse. she would rape the dbz verse.


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## Kai (Dec 7, 2006)

ram619 said:


> super buu (gohan,piccolo,goten/trunks inside) can but vegetto prevented him.



Do you have any idea what you're saying? To destroy the space time continuum, you're destroying time and space as they are as one entity, 4 dimensions. The distance between A and B may be real, zero, or imaginary. The concept is more insane than any DBZ character could comprehend or destroy.


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## ram619 (Dec 7, 2006)

i did not say buu manage to destroy it completely,what i said is he almost destroyed it if he hadnt stop.


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## Vynjira (Dec 7, 2006)

ram619 said:


> dbz is at lightspeed,coz we can see images because of light basically how can ssj gotenks leaves a trail of light around the planet even he is still moving around if he is slower than light,that is basic physics.
> 
> answer that first and if you answer that correctly,i will believe that dbz is not at lightspeed.



Also consider the fact that he Generates a large tail of Light energy when flying? Err, did you miss that?


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## ram619 (Dec 7, 2006)

the reason why dbz moves that fast was through ki manipulation and altering of gravity.

nope never in the manga that there is a large tail of light energy when they travel.

about gotenks what im trying to say here are the path of images that he travels from different directions around the world not the large tail of light energy.

multiplication of speed did happen when goku uses his kaiohken that multiply speed/power.

so leaving an image was not big deal,we see image because of light so how will you manage to escape that image if your not faster than light.answer that?


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## ram619 (Dec 7, 2006)

Vynjira i want you to answer this since your basing all your opinion at science:

how did superman move the planet earth? coz every planet has gravity and a with a lesser mass puting force to move it will alter its gravity and rip it in half.explain that...........

to add more,how can you explain (pre-post crisis,allstar,secundus,m*/prime) superman's ability to fly if he's not telekinetic,not magic and cannot release his bioelectric aura.


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## Vynjira (Dec 7, 2006)

ram619 said:


> nope never in the manga that they travel a large tail of light energy when they travel.
> 
> about gotenks what im trying to say here is the path of image the he travels from different directions around the world not the large tail of light energy.
> 
> ...


First "apples to sex" comes to mind. Zanzoken is much like any of the Clone Jutsu you see in Naruto. Why do I say this? Well Frieza was fooled by Zanzoken. If this was a feat of speed then Clearly Goku wouldn't need 2 images of himself to fool Frieza.

I highly doubt its a feat of pure speed. Even if it were sonic speeds would be able to maintain 2 images at once as the Human Eye would not be able to distinguish between which one is happening when which is why things become long blurs.


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## ram619 (Dec 7, 2006)

goku can only do 3-zanzoken at dbz,that is the reason only 3 and based on that he cant keep at that speed without using zanzoken.

you dont get what i mean what ssj gotenks did,was he left a path of images the he travels from different directions around the planet not the large tail of light energy.

considering the cirumfence of the earth is 40,075 km + the height that gotenks had flew,its impossible for speed of sound to leave that kind of image around the planet.

U.S. Navy F/A-18 is at transonic speed and it never ever leaves a blur of image even once it did not happen.

Vynjira i want you to answer this since your basing all your opinion at science:

how did superman move the planet earth? coz every planet has gravity and a with a lesser mass puting force to move it will alter its gravity and rip it in half.explain that...........

to add more,how can you explain (pre-post crisis,allstar,secundus,m*/prime) superman's ability to fly if he's not telekinetic,not magic and cannot release his bioelectric aura.


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## Vynjira (Dec 7, 2006)

ram619 said:


> Vynjira i want you to answer this since your basing all your opinion at science:
> 
> how did superman move the planet earth? coz every planet has gravity and a with a lesser mass puting force to move it will alter its gravity and rip it in half.explain that...........
> 
> to add more,how can you explain (pre-post crisis,allstar,secundus,m*/prime) superman's ability to fly if he's not telekinetic,not magic and cannot release his bioelectric aura.



I actually asked the whole Superman moving a planet question myself. The answer I got was pretty much Superman's telekenetic field that protects buildings from crumbling on their own weight protects the surface of the planet. It still should be possible. However if I assume your talking about War World. He slammed into it thus generating a force outside of the mass and the surface was durable enough that he could continue to push in conjunction with his telekenetic field without going thru. Again this shouldn't be possible unless he could extend this field over most of the planet. 

The Science of Superman Book breaks down all of his abilities. It explains he can generate a telekenetic field around building he rips from the ground that prevent the building from colapsing on itself. It also explains his flight is thru manipluation of Gravitons and is perfect flight. Its possible that he used his enhanced powers from the Sun-dip to increase his gavitational field beyond that of the planets thus forcing it out of place. Either way its not a feat of strength.


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## ram619 (Dec 7, 2006)

fact:

we see image because of light.

so how will you manage to escape that image if your not faster than light.answer that?


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## Vynjira (Dec 7, 2006)

ram619 said:


> goku can only do 3-zanzoken at dbz,that is the reason only 3.
> 
> you dont get what i mean what ssj gotenks did,was he left a path of images the he travels from different directions around the planet not the large tail of light energy.
> 
> ...


I answered the rest of the quote just now. As for this part, I never said Gotenks was under sonic speeds infact I said he would have to be near lightspeed to Circle the earth that many times. In the other Thread I stated light can circle the earth 8 times in 6mins. So he was prolly closest to lightspeed at that point but the tail of light he generated while flying prolly made it look like light-speed when it was actually prolly close to. My point is they hadn't utilised such speeds in any of their fights. They never show anything to indicate that they actually moved at light speed during combat. Or maby @ that point he achieved lightspeed. I can't confirm or deny that point. However there is nothing after that to suggest they did that in combat. That path was more like their racing speed and significantly lower in combat.


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## ram619 (Dec 7, 2006)

you dont get what i mean what ssj gotenks did,was he left a path of images the he travels from different directions around the planet not the large tail of light energy.

considering the cirumfence of the earth is 40,075 km + the height that gotenks had flew,its impossible for speed of sound to leave that kind of image around the planet.

U.S. Navy F/A-18 is at transonic speed and it never ever leaves a blur of image even once it did not happen.

fact:

we see image because of light.

so how will you manage to escape that image if your not faster than light.answer that?

prove to me that a speed of sound can allow us to see images.

the reason why dbz moves that fast was through ki manipulation and altering of gravity.just like blackhole,no light can escape it.


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## ram619 (Dec 7, 2006)

lightspeed =186000 miles per second

soundspeed=344 miles per second

fact:

we see image because of light.

so how will you manage to escape that image if your not faster than light.answer that?

prove to me that a speed of sound can allow us to see images.

the reason why dbz moves that fast was through ki manipulation and altering of gravity.just like blackhole,no light can escape it.


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## Vynjira (Dec 7, 2006)

ram619 said:


> fact:
> 
> we see image because of light.
> 
> so how will you manage to escape that image if your not faster than light.answer that?



As I stated sonic speed can escape the image our eyes would not be able to distinguish and object moving back and forth between two points, and if they lined up nearly perfectly at mach 1 we may see a blur between the 2 clear images but not anything past that.


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## Vynjira (Dec 7, 2006)

ram619 said:


> lightspeed =186000 miles per second
> 
> soundspeed=344 miles per second



Our eyes see @ 24 Frames per second. Using a frame as your peripheral thats some 14miles per frame worth of information. If the fight happens within 500feet your not gonna see people moving around that fast.

Or simply if someone can move 14miles in 1/24th of a second and they stay confined to a small area your NOT gonna see them move.


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## ram619 (Dec 7, 2006)

so you mean speed of sound can do this:

considering the cirumfence of the earth is 40,075 km + the height that gotenks had flew,its impossible for speed of sound to leave that kind of image around the planet at few dozen different directions.


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## ram619 (Dec 7, 2006)

prove to me that U.S. Navy F/A-18 at transonic speed that leaves a blur of image around the sky.


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## Vynjira (Dec 7, 2006)

ram619 said:


> so you mean speed of sound can do this:
> 
> considering the cirumfence of the earth is 40,075 km + the height that gotenks had flew,its impossible for speed of sound to leave that kind of image around the planet at few dozen different directions.





Vynjira said:


> never said Gotenks was under sonic speeds infact I said he would have to be near lightspeed to Circle the earth that many times. In the other Thread I stated light can circle the earth 8 times in 6mins. So he was prolly closest to lightspeed at that point but the tail of light he generated while flying prolly made it look like light-speed when it was actually prolly close to. My point is they hadn't utilised such speeds in any of their fights. They never show anything to indicate that they actually moved at light speed during combat. Or maby @ that point he achieved lightspeed. I can't confirm or deny that point. However there is nothing after that to suggest they did that in combat. That path was more like their racing speed and significantly lower in combat.


Roughly 5 posts above you silly ^^;


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## ram619 (Dec 7, 2006)

basically if they move at the speed of sound back/forth at short distance you will see a blurr of image of their path at the middle,but in zanzoken the only thing they will see was just 2 images or 3 and no blurr images of their path.

what im trying to say here was how fast you need to go to leave a blurr of images undetected just blurr of image only.


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## ram619 (Dec 7, 2006)

do you that know it only took him seconds to circled around the planet few dozen times,it gives him enough time to take a nap after that.

fighting speed > flight travelling speed


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## ram619 (Dec 7, 2006)

to make it clear,while gotenks is completing the few dozen travels around the planet.the first path the he travels still remains,it means that the time recorded here and the time in manga/anime was different which he probably done it just a second.


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## ram619 (Dec 7, 2006)

sadly i have no scanner and i dont know how to show you in my dvd to prove to you how ssjgotenks done it.


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## ram619 (Dec 7, 2006)

time to go dudes,tnx for the time debating............


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## Vynjira (Dec 7, 2006)

ram619 said:


> basically if they move at the speed of sound back/forth at short distance you will see a blurr of image of their path at the middle,but in zanzoken the only thing they will see was just 2 images or 3 and no blurr images of their path.
> 
> what im trying to say here was how fast you need to go to leave a blurr of images undetected just blurr of image only.



It wouldn't need to be lightspeed and if it were much like your idea on Gotenks speed then Goku would have a beam of light connecting his 2 images. It would have to be sub-light if you wanna keep your Gotenks arguement.

Also in Dragonball they were Able to perform ZanZoken with their maximum speeds under Mach 1.


EDIT: 





ram619 said:


> fighting speed > flight travelling speed


Unless Akira stated this somewhere its not worth a second thought.

No character has ever displayed an ability to run faster in Zig-Zags and concentrating on aiming and dodging than they could using all that same energy on moving straight. 

Until I see this as posted as a FACT from Manga, No. Their full potential energy moving in a straight line would be far superior to them moving in all sorts of directions. Granted they are by far more adept at fighting at those speeds than normal people which makes it seem like they haven't slowed down or are moving faster or the possibility they weren't moving as fast as they could in a straight line.

No, DBZ characters unless I missed somewhere in my Manga that Akira outright said they can move faster in combat than in flight then No!

That would be like saying Z Characters spend more energy flying in a straight line than they do bouncing around dodgeing and attacking and whatever else happens. If any part of this was true then they certainly wouldn't be attacking anyone at those speeds.


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## Phenomenol (Dec 7, 2006)

> No, that's 5 times as shown in the scan and even IF he went 7 times around Earth in a second, that's still under lightspeed.



No, From the manga, volume 40, page 139, Gotenks: " I circled the globe a few dozen times... and even took a nap." That is at least 24-36 times around the globe! And since he circles the earth at arcs far larger then equator...sorry you are wrong.



> I guess you don't know what a graphical effect is. How else is a manga going to show a person path if they didn't leave the trail there? So that graphical effects didn't prove how fast he was going, just his path. Now post where he SAID he did it in a second. And even if he did, that was 5 times, not 7.5 times. That would make him under lightspeed. Prove it, or shut up.



Guess you don't know what a speed feat is

Gotenks was showing off (one of his traits) his speed, anyone with more than one brain cell who has ever read a comic book would see that. 

Do you think Toriyama just drew him circling the earth for no reason what so ever? Do you actually understand the concept of visual story telling??!!

You whiners can drone about how he's not a scientist and what ever crap you say (LOL like THAT is relevent). But the author decides what his characters can do...end....of ....story.


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## Endless Mike (Dec 7, 2006)

ram619 said:


> super buu (gohan,piccolo,goten/trunks inside) can but vegetto prevented him.



Non - canon filler bullshit.


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## Endless Mike (Dec 7, 2006)

ram619 said:


> destroying a dimesion wall as big as the earth will destroy the space time continuum,dont need to hint that coz its fact.



No, it's filler and non - canon.



> we always see dbz characters raise their ki and they alter gravity,through ki manipulation/control they can increase their speed.that is a reason why they dont make sonic booms.



Bullshit. That doesn't even make sense.



> if you based your opinion at physics then why does superman move the planet earth.every planet has gravity and puting much force to move it will alter its gravity and rip it in half.explain that...........



Tactile telekinesis.

Besides, he's never moved the earth since Pre - Crisis.


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## Endless Mike (Dec 7, 2006)

ram619 said:


> dbz is at lightspeed,coz we can see images because of light basically how can ssj gotenks leaves a trail of light around the planet even he is still moving around if he is slower than light,that is basic physics.
> 
> answer that first and if you answer that correctly,i will believe that dbz is not at lightspeed.



Don't be a moron, what we see is his ki, ki in DBZ emits a glowing energy field that lingers after a ki - powered object moves by.


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## Endless Mike (Dec 7, 2006)

ram619 said:


> fact:
> 
> we see image because of light.
> 
> so how will you manage to escape that image if your not faster than light.answer that?



Because the observer cannot process the image in their eye and brain fast enough to keep up.

Wave your hand in front of your monitor.


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## Endless Mike (Dec 7, 2006)

ram619 said:


> so you mean speed of sound can do this:
> 
> considering the cirumfence of the earth is 40,075 km + the height that gotenks had flew,its impossible for speed of sound to leave that kind of image around the planet at few dozen different directions.



It is if the object travelling leaves a visible trail behind it.... like a jet plain contrail.


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## The Space Cowboy (Dec 7, 2006)

They don't have to be faster then light to blur, or to appear in two places at once.  They just have to be faster than the senses of their opponents, or the observer.


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## Endless Mike (Dec 7, 2006)

Phenomenol said:


> No, From the manga, volume 40, page 139, Gotenks: " I circled the globe a few dozen times... and even took a nap." That is at least 24-36 times around the globe! And since he circles the earth at arcs far larger then equator...sorry you are wrong.



Then show me your calculations, or STFU.



> Guess you don't know what a speed feat is
> 
> Gotenks was showing off (one of his traits) his speed, anyone with more than one brain cell who has ever read a comic book would see that.
> 
> ...



And unless you can quantify it (which I actually have done), it means nothing.


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## Phenomenol (Dec 7, 2006)

ram619 said:


> to make it clear,while gotenks is completing the few dozen travels around the planet.the first path the he travels still remains,it means that the time recorded here and the time in manga/anime was different which he probably done it just a second.



Here you go....


NUFF SAID


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## Phenomenol (Dec 7, 2006)

Endless Mike said:


> Then show me your calculations, or STFU.
> And unless you can quantify it (which I actually have done), it means nothing.



Then you STFU about Gotenks NOT moving at FTL speeds......


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## Cthulhu-versailles (Dec 7, 2006)

Well I for one still think Goku=Superman. 
Subsequently, I would consider Dc Captain Marvel above Superman. 
I'd consider Sentry above Sups. 
As for Sliver Surfer, he would so pwn Sups and Goku at once. 
I know practically nothing of Thor....

In the case of Martial Man Hunter however, I'd say the fight is really close and that it could go either way. The Burning is not included and shouldn't be anyway.  So seriously, that fight could go either way and would be a good discussion. Primarily because the effectiveness of Man Hunters psychic related powers on Goku is questionable. (Dbz chars=  unable to get mind detonated by Babidi) Granted MM has other abilties, like phasing and shape shifting, but...

Oh snap! I just realized MM Vs Goku has huge discussion potential


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## Endless Mike (Dec 7, 2006)

Phenomenol said:


> Here you go....
> 
> *snip*
> NUFF SAID



Completely different from the manga scene.

NUFF SAID.


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## Endless Mike (Dec 7, 2006)

Phenomenol said:


> Then you STFU about Gotenks NOT moving at FTL speeds......



Burden of proof. I don't have to prove a negative, you have to prove the positive.

Or else we say that Naruto, Bleach, One Piece, Kenshin, etc. characters are FTL since there's no proof they're not.


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## Phenomenol (Dec 7, 2006)

Endless Mike said:


> Burden of proof. I don't have to prove a negative, you have to prove the positive..



I never said they fight at FTL speeds nor did I say they don't! the FACT of the matter is nobody in this damn thread can disprove it.


----------



## Vynjira (Dec 7, 2006)

Phenomenol said:


> Here you go....
> 
> 
> NUFF SAID



Hate to break that to you but um... That pic shows 9 times wheres the other 20+ times? Also by the Rotation of the earth that appears to have happened over a couple of minutes, so it looks to me he's around lightspeed there.(Tho I did agree he was prolly close to lightspeed.)

Back to ZanZoken real quick, Goku on Snakeway on his way back was traveling as fast as he could go. Which was roughly Mach 17, which is 1/14th the speed of light. ZanZoken was performed by Master Roshi in DB. Which is I think we can all agree far below Mach 17 and nowhere near lightspeed.


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## Phenomenol (Dec 7, 2006)

Vynjira said:


> Hate to break that to you but um... That pic shows 9 times wheres the other 20+ times? Also by the Rotation of the earth that appears to have happened over a couple of minutes, so it looks to me he's around lightspeed there.



Doesn't matter,Gotenks STATES how many times he went around the globe and it is a "few dozen times."


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## Endless Mike (Dec 7, 2006)

Actually, if you interpret that image completely literally, then the rotation of the earth indicates that several hours have passed for the duration of the gif....

Of course we know this to be impossible, as the fusion only lasts 30 minutes.

Therefore the logical conclusion is that this is just another screwup on Toei's part, and the manga should be used instead.


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## Phenomenol (Dec 7, 2006)

Your conclusions are fulll of crap.^^^^ we can use the anime because it shows the same clips as the manga.


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## Endless Mike (Dec 7, 2006)

Phenomenol said:


> Your conclusions are fulll of crap.^^^^ we can use the anime because it shows the same clips as the manga.



Translation: "You're wrong, but I'm not going to bother to explain how or even attempt to refute any of your arguments, I'm just going to say you're wrong because whenever I say something that automatically makes it true".

You got the Goku vs. Flash thread locked for pulling this same kind of shit, will you just grow up already and admit that DBZ characters are not that strong relatively?


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## Phenomenol (Dec 7, 2006)

Endless Mike said:


> Translation: "You're wrong, but I'm not going to bother to explain how or even attempt to refute any of your arguments, I'm just going to say you're wrong because whenever I say something that automatically makes it true".
> 
> You got the Goku vs. Flash thread locked for pulling this same kind of shit, will you just grow up already and admit that DBZ characters are not that strong relatively?



I said the ****ing anime has the same clips as the manga therefore can be used! Guess you didn't read that part because your so blinded by your bias.

The Flash thread was closed because of Flamming from all parties....then your TROLLING ass posts "DBZ characters are not that strong relatively?" with NO proof. You never knew anything about Dragonball nor about Comics. Hell I remember you use to go away on other boards and asks questions concerning characters that you were debating against or FOR (particularly Supes vs. Goku thread). You just chatt alot of garbage just to be seen..

Your loud as a motor bike.... but can't bust a grape in a fruit fight!!!!


----------



## Endless Mike (Dec 7, 2006)

Phenomenol said:


> I said the ****ing anime has the same clips as the manga therefore can be used! Guess you didn't read that part because your so blinded by your bias.



Except you're wrong here, too.

The anime shows 9 orbits over a period of several hours, going by the rotation of the earth.

The manga shows 5 orbits over an undefined period of time.



> The Flash thread was closed because of Flamming from all parties....then your TROLLING ass posts "DBZ characters are not that strong relatively?" with NO proof.



Grow a brain. Something said 'relatively' is a generalization, it's doesn't require proof. 



> You never knew anything about Dragonball nor about Comics. Hell I remember you use to go away on other boards and asks questions concerning characters that you were debating against or FOR (particularly Supes vs. Goku thread).



Round and round the bullshit goes, where it stops, nobody knows!

I posted articles and sources from other boards, I didn't go asking stuff on other boards.

It doesn't matter WHERE the evidence in question comes from, what it matters is if it's accurate or not.



> You just chatt alot of garbage just to be seen..



Funny, because you have over negative 250,000 rep and I have over 30,000 positive rep.... I wonder who the people on the boards consider to be more intelligent and trustworthy.... 



> Your loud as a motor bike.... but can't bust a grape in a fruit fight!!!!



All you have are petty insults, fallacies, and ad hominems, no actual arguments whatsoever.

Maybe I didn't phrase this clearly enough the first time:


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## The Space Cowboy (Dec 7, 2006)

Phenomenol said:


> Doesn't matter,Gotenks STATES how many times he went around the globe and it is a "few dozen times."



Going around the earth a few dozen times in a second makes you a slow-arse compared to the actual speed of light.  Straight up dividing the circumference of the earth by the speed of light means that at the speed of light you could circle it around 7400 times.  

That's at least two orders of magnitude higher than Gotenk's speed, even if you place him 20,000 KM out from Earth you could still circle it on the order of 3700 times in a single second.

Quod erat demonstrandum.
So yeah.  Gotenks at his bragging speed is nowhere near the speed of light.  Especially if you want to go by the anime or manga.  Even circling the earth 144 times (A dozen of dozens) in a SINGLE SECOND is nowhere near lightspeed.

Two orders of magnitude, is bloody significant if you ask me.  Based on this, and that he admittedly took more than one second to circle the earth, and at what seems to be a smaller distance from the Earth than the one I used to calculate puts him nowhere near lightspeed.  At most, maybe TWO PERCENT


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## Vynjira (Dec 7, 2006)

Not that that image is anywhere near accurate (Looks like 5hours pass IMO) but if you took it as cannon the earth spun a distance of 6,228miles, at the same time he traveled 280,260miles. The Earth typically spins around 1,036miles per hour. Which puts him at, 56,052 miles per hour. Light travels 11,964 times faster. However he was in the atmosphere so at best I would say he was traveling 516,964,798.8 miles per hour. However again this is under the assumption The Animator did all the math himself. I would doubt the animator did all that. In any case at best I would say he was going 516,964,798.8 miles per hour which is close but still far off.

Lightspeed: 670,616,629.384 miles per hour


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## Vynjira (Dec 7, 2006)

Kickero said:


> Straight up dividing the circumference of the earth by the speed of light means that at the speed of light you could circle it around 7400 times.


Not that I disagree but I got 7.4807551111461563721766800182457 times in 1 second. I checked my numbers against wiki The site said Earth's Circumfrence in Kilometeres and Light Speed in Meteres per second. So I divided Light speed by 1000 and got 7.4 and so on. Might be where you error'd if not then double check my math.

EDIT: According to the image I gather he was going 98.7% the speed of light. Now if I took the image into a .GIF editor I could come with a more accurate number, but the animation directly contraticts the fact Gotenks had a 30min time limit. I'm a bit too lazy to go into detail with something that Contradicts Canon. If he's willing to accept the image as Canon then he was around 98% the speed of light which means that None of the chars broke the Lightspeed barrier in Canon save the whole Instant Transmission Technique. If anyone wants me to go into more detail I will but thats it for now.


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## The Space Cowboy (Dec 7, 2006)

Mean Circumference of the Earth:  40,041 km
Speed of Light: 299792458 m/s

Yikes.  Forgot to account for converting from kilometers. Sorry about that.  My bad.  It is, as you say, more like 7.4 OPS at lightspeed.  Orbiting the Earth a couple dozen times however that close to the speed of light incurs time dilation penalties for our hero Gotenks, slashing his average velocity.  

Even if he does it in a few seconds relative to himself, he still takes longer relative to everyone else.  Time for him slooows down, although he himself does not notice.

Meaning...there's a plausible way for the image to be correct.  Time dilation.  But it leaves Gotenk's average speed kinda laughable.


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## mystictrunks (Dec 7, 2006)

Firestorm would curbstomp the DBZ verse unless he got speedblitzed


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## EXhack (Dec 7, 2006)

You said cosmic. Doesn't that insta kill any non-cosmic char?


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## Vynjira (Dec 7, 2006)

Kickero said:


> Meaning...there's a plausible way for the image to be correct.  Time dilation.  But it leaves Gotenk's average speed kinda laughable.



Considering its the first time they've shown a character in DBZ do something like this, its highly probable it was Akira's way of Saying They can now reach lightspeed. It seems logical but thats an assumption based on past prescedents.  It would seem logical for this to be the "Hey we hit lightspeed finally." Not that anyone can say for a fact it is or isn't. but if we go to consider it canon its possible this was Akira's equivelent to Superman going 99% lightspeed.


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## Endless Mike (Dec 7, 2006)

Vynjira said:


> Considering its the first time they've shown a character in DBZ do something like this, its highly probable it was Akira's way of Saying They can now reach lightspeed. It seems logical but thats an assumption based on past prescedents.  It would seem logical for this to be the "Hey we hit lightspeed finally." Not that anyone can say for a fact it is or isn't. but if we go to consider it canon its possible this was Akira's equivelent to Superman going 99% lightspeed.



Except that's nothing but speculation.

Lightspeed wasn't even mentioned.

Furthermore, the anime is not canon, it's just an interpretation of the manga. The scene in the manga is quite different.

Also, the anime scene shows many hours passing during the orbits, due to the rotation of the earth. That would place him at much slower than lightspeed.


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## Vynjira (Dec 7, 2006)

Endless Mike said:


> Except that's nothing but speculation.
> 
> Lightspeed wasn't even mentioned.
> 
> ...


No I said it was a sheer assumption, I'm just saying that if something were to go lightspeed that would prolly how they would show it the first time.


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## Vynjira (Dec 7, 2006)

287,202,666 miles is the circumfrence of mid-orbit. Assuming he traveled that distance 9 times in 6 hours thats 430,803,999 Miles per hour. Assuming he traveled that distance in 5 hours, 516,964,798.8 Miles per hour.

Lightspeed is 670,616,629.384 miles per hour

Or around there, again that was based off my estimation that 5-6 hours passed. I said if I examind the .GIF more carefully via a .GIF editor where I could keep track frame by frame the speed may be off by a bit in either direction. If you think it the Earth rotated more than I think it did than Gotenks' speed is lower. If you think it spun slower than its more speed for Gotenks. Either way those were based off eyeballing I didn't use an editor to get the exact numbers. In addition I put Gotenks' flight path inbetween Earth's surface and Orbital Circumfrence. I was being lazy I didn't wanna figure out where in the atmosphere he was the lower he is the slower he was going the higher up the faster. Chances are he was lower than what I said and that more time had past. What I'm saying is thats what I think is his best speed. Basically I listed what I thought was the best he actually accomplished. I was try to give the benifit of the doubt that way we have a Cap saying he WASN'T moving faster than this! or He isn't stronger than this! or whatever.

EDIT: So basically it was me giving Gotenks the extreme benifit of the doubt.


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## Endless Mike (Dec 7, 2006)

Um, do you realize that the orbital circumference is the entire circumference of the earth's orbit around the sun? That's completely irrelevant and will throw off your numbers by a lot.


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## Vynjira (Dec 7, 2006)

Endless Mike said:


> Um, do you realize that the orbital circumference is the entire circumference of the earth's orbit around the sun? That's completely irrelevant and will throw off your numbers by a lot.



Woo! now the numbers make a ton more sense hook me up with the right numbers for that I was thinking Sattelite orbit. I was wondering why it was so close to lightspeed. Now it makes sense, well hook me up with atmosphere circumfrence I haven't been feeling well enough to do the math on Exosphere circumfrence. 800km from surface right?

Good Onya mate.

EDIT: I'm from Nasa btw.. I programed the Mar's Lander in meters and feet woo! (jk) Anyway good catch, Rather I'm glad I said that so you could see why math got messed cause I honestly wouldn't have figured it out until my Flu was gone at least.


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## CrazyMoronX (Dec 7, 2006)

Everyone seems to forget that the DBZ is earth might not even be the same size as our earth. It could be bigger, it could be smaller.

Anyway, this thread is wildly off-topic.


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## Endless Mike (Dec 7, 2006)

Tylenol Girl said:


> Everyone seems to forget that the DBZ is earth might not even be the same size as our earth. It could be bigger, it could be smaller.
> 
> Anyway, this thread is wildly off-topic.



Yet we don't have any actual evidence either way, so it's best to assume it's the same.


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## Yamucha (Dec 7, 2006)

DBZ characters have basicly UNLIMITED POWER AND POSSIBILITIES FOR ADVANCING!!!! SO DBZ>>>All


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## Xell (Dec 7, 2006)

Yamucha said:


> DBZ characters have basicly UNLIMITED POWER AND POSSIBILITIES FOR ADVANCING!!!! SO DBZ>>>All



I think that is quite an ignorant thing to say. DBZ have to train to get more power, so they may have Unlimited Power, but they also have to work hard for it.


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## Vynjira (Dec 7, 2006)

Endless Mike said:


> Yet we don't have any actual evidence either way, so it's best to assume it's the same.



Any luck on the circumfrence of the Exosphere?

Off topic but is it a bad sign when your doctor says he has to run more tests before he can figure out whats wrong with you? He said its some sort of Virus..


----------



## Endless Mike (Dec 7, 2006)

Yamucha said:


> DBZ characters have basicly UNLIMITED POWER AND POSSIBILITIES FOR ADVANCING!!!! SO DBZ>>>All



No - limits fallacy.


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## Endless Mike (Dec 7, 2006)

Vynjira said:


> Any luck on the circumfrence of the Exosphere?
> 
> Off topic but is it a bad sign when your doctor says he has to run more tests before he can figure out whats wrong with you? He said its some sort of Virus..



The exosphere ends about 800 km above earth's surface. So just add 1600 km to the diameter of the earth and multiply by pi.

The thermosphere tops out at around 690 km, the mesosphere 80 km, the stratosphere 50 km, and the troposphere 18 km.


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## Vynjira (Dec 7, 2006)

Endless Mike said:


> The exosphere ends about 800 km above earth's surface. So just add 1600 km to the diameter of the earth and multiply by pi.
> 
> The thermosphere tops out at around 690 km, the mesosphere 80 km, the stratosphere 50 km, and the troposphere 18 km.



Should prolly do by 1000km(2000km on other side also diameter of earth needs to added to that right?) to give Gotenks the highest advantage?

28,791.0987 miles circumfrence, to 83,402.6076 miles per hour compared to Lightspeed: 670,616,629.384 miles per hour


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## The Space Cowboy (Dec 7, 2006)

Mike is right about that one.
Circumference = Pi*(2*radius).

Meaning if you go around the Earth in  a circle, the length of your path will be 2PI*(20,050,000 m + (altitude in meters)).  

Given the diameter of his path and the diameter of the Earth, that animation places him WELL outside the atmosphere (Which is about as thin as the skin of an apple relative to the size of the earth).


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## Vynjira (Dec 7, 2006)

Kickero said:


> Mike is right about that one.
> Circumference = Pi*(2*radius).
> 
> Meaning if you go around the Earth in  a circle, the length of your path will be 2PI*(20,050,000 m + (altitude in meters)).
> ...



Which is why I brought it out to 1000km and not 800km.


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## EXhack (Dec 7, 2006)

All astronamy aside, all we need is a mid-level cosmic character, right?


----------



## Cthulhu-versailles (Dec 7, 2006)

so, does anyone else think Goku Vs Martial Man Hunter is a tough fight to call?


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## Orion (Dec 7, 2006)

^^not really...manhunter could just phase out and then proceed to rip something off goku.


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## ~Shin~ (Dec 7, 2006)

I really don't understand why u guys try to bring so much science into a fictional verse. 
Fiction=/=Science
And DBZ and science really don't go well together.
Let's just use common sense instead of bringing all these equations and numbers in the argument.


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## Vynjira (Dec 7, 2006)

vlaaad12345 said:


> ^^not really...manhunter could just phase out and then proceed to rip something off goku.



/concur

MM is known to be near on par with Superman physically and then his psionics + phasing.. Put him above sometimes, hell Superman commented John could prolly take him fairly even.


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## Vicious (Dec 7, 2006)

didnt superman say he would get his ass whooped if he fought MM?


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## Phenomenol (Dec 7, 2006)

> Even if you said that Goku would win, clearly based on your post, you don't really know who Superboy Prime is. Goku definitely could not kick Superboy Prime butt...Superboy-Prime will rape Goku.



Bwhahahahaahah.....Superboy Prime will lose to Goku. Not too mention his debut sucked.


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## Orion (Dec 7, 2006)

superboy prime loosing to goku.......lmfao wow you really dont know who superboy prime is.


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## Vynjira (Dec 7, 2006)

4thandnaruto said:


> didnt superman say he would get his ass whooped if he fought MM?



Yes not in those words but yes.


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## Phenomenol (Dec 7, 2006)

vlaaad12345 said:


> superboy prime loosing to goku.......lmfao wow you really dont know who superboy prime is.



I know who SBP is, Yeah I read his comic....Nothing he showed can beat Goku.


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## Vynjira (Dec 7, 2006)

Phenomenol said:


> I know who SBP is, Yeah I read his comic....Nothing he showed can beat Goku.



Other than the fact he could virtually alter reality with a punch...


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## Phenomenol (Dec 7, 2006)

That's because there was a wall that Superboy-Prime could punch.^^^


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## mystictrunks (Dec 7, 2006)

Vynjira said:


> Other than the fact he could virtually alter reality with a punch...



It wasn't just any wall,it was a dimensional wall.


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## SoulTaker (Dec 7, 2006)

SBP was also a planet mover and a genius.


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## Kaki (Dec 7, 2006)

No question when the charachters are from the end of DBZ. Or if there power level is over nine thousaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand!!

Are you counting villans too?


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## Vynjira (Dec 7, 2006)

Phenomenol said:


> That's because there was a wall that Superboy-Prime could punch.^^^





mystictrunks said:


> It wasn't just any wall,it was a dimensional wall.





Vynjira said:


> Other than the fact he could virtually alter reality with a punch...



I'd honestly love to see Superboy-Prime to Punch Goku.


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## SoulTaker (Dec 7, 2006)

Vynjira said:


> I'd honestly love to see Superboy-Prime to Punch Goku.



It's kind of sadistic to want to see a guy get every bone in his body broken,even if he is an anime character.

Edit:I forgot the "get".


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## Vynjira (Dec 7, 2006)

SoulTaker540 said:


> It's kind of sadistic to want to see a guy with every bone in his body broken,even if he is an anime character.



Ah the Irony of that statement vs your signiture.


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## Endless Mike (Dec 8, 2006)

I see Phenomen - LOL is trolling again....


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## Kai (Dec 8, 2006)

PhenORMOUSLY BIG TROLL said:
			
		

> I know who SBP is, Yeah I read his comic....Nothing he showed can beat Goku.



I wonder when you would stop residing with Goku. What would be your verdict on Pre-Crisis Supes then? You still think Goku wins?


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## Orion (Dec 8, 2006)

^^yes he will......he will stick with his GOKU HAS VAST SENSES AND CAN IT AND KILL ANY ONE PERIOD.


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## Endless Mike (Dec 8, 2006)

Space said:


> I wonder when you would stop residing with Goku. What would be your verdict on Pre-Crisis Supes then? You still think Goku wins?



Yes he does. He also thinks Goku beats Superman Prime.

The only character, AFAIK, that he's admitted that Goku/Vegeto/Buu would lose to is Lucifer Morningstar.


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## Kai (Dec 8, 2006)

Endless Mike said:


> Yes he does. He also thinks Goku beats Superman Prime.
> 
> The only character, AFAIK, that he's admitted that Goku/Vegeto/Buu would lose to is Lucifer Morningstar.



So basically he thinks Goku is a cosmic being...


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## Orion (Dec 8, 2006)

^^right on the money.


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## Vynjira (Dec 8, 2006)

Yet Superman Prime's full limits were never even seen and would Curbstomp alot of Cosmic beings.

Pre-Crisis Supes can hold his own against cosmic beings.


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## Orion (Dec 8, 2006)

^^ i know that you know that preety much everyone knows that but jplaya and phenom are absolute dbz fans nothing can touch goku period thats how they think.


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## Vynjira (Dec 8, 2006)

vlaaad12345 said:


> ^^ i know that you know that preety much everyone knows that but jplaya and phenom are absolute dbz fans nothing can touch goku period thats how they think.



Unless their fighting something completly Omnipotent or nigh Omnipotent? How do they feel bout Ion and Parallax and Spectre?


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## Orion (Dec 8, 2006)

^^cant remember someone putting them up against nigh omnipotent but it honestly wouldnt surprise me,jplaya thinks itachi can kill GALACTUS.


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## Vynjira (Dec 8, 2006)

Well that would suck for the Narutoverse huh? Itachi kills Galactus and everyone instantly dies when his dead body goes Nova on the planet's surface...

..but seriously with what power is Itachi gonna do this? The 9 tails wouldn't come close how is Itachi gonna somehow do this?


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## Orion (Dec 8, 2006)

^^jplaya's itachi sends galactus to another dimension(which is crap its a freakin genjutsu)and then uses amatseru to melt him(which is also crap since galactus is a fukin star)thats about it .


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## Kuya (Dec 8, 2006)

Kakihara said:


> No question when the charachters are from the end of DBZ. Or if there power level is over nine thousaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand!!
> 
> Are you counting villans too?



Yeah any comic character.

Wow this thread is incredibly off-topic.

So what was concluded so far?

DBZ characters can beat Archangel and Captain Britain?

Come on, gimme more. I made this thread cuz i honestly want to see who they can beat (w/ the posted powers). And if you're someone who says DBZ > ALL, then GTFO cuz i wanna hear some real answers. Thank You. Aloha.


----------



## Kai (Dec 8, 2006)

Vynjira said:


> Unless their fighting something completly Omnipotent or nigh Omnipotent? How do they feel bout Ion and Parallax and Spectre?



They wouldn't answer you  

I would say Goku could beat Batman without prep time.


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## ~Shin~ (Dec 8, 2006)

^Goku can probably beat batman even with preptime.


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## Orion (Dec 8, 2006)

^^not adam west batman o0 lol.


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## Phenomenol (Dec 8, 2006)

Endless Mike said:


> I see Phenomen - LOL is trolling again.... Yes he does. He also thinks Goku beats Superman Prime.



So I am trolling? Yet You continue to show that you don't KNOW anything about comics or anime. Those green bars under your name don't mean a damn thing because we got a bunch of people in this forum with green bars who don't KNOW JACK #*%& about comics. Unlike you I ACTUALLY read Superboy-Prime's comic!!! His debut was GARBAGE and nothing he showed can beat Goku.

As for your Pre-crisis Superman argument I said ANIME/MOVIE/GT Goku would EASILY hand him his ass!!!


----------



## Vynjira (Dec 8, 2006)

Phenomenol said:


> green bars who don't KNOW JACK #*%& about comics.


and people with the red bars do, Hmm.

Sad part is when you don't support your ideas with facts everyone else can easily see who knows what their talkin about and who doesn't.

IMO, your not coming off as an intelligent person to alot of people. Hell even if you were accurate and your facts were actually valid it doesn't really matter when noone is listening because of those red bars and because your not making a decent arguement. Alot of the other users put up good supportable arguements and you spew back saying "thats not supporting anything because.." and sorry to cut you off but at that point the reader makes a decision. You can spew no your wrong and I'm right all you want but when it comes down to it, everyone else can see who knows what. Honestly getting 3 people that agree with you to say Goku wins because DBZ > ALL doesn't help your arguement either.

EDIT: Another thing is he has alot of green bars with less than half the amount of posts you do. Meanwhile you have over twice what he has and a full red bar which makes it pretty clear your trolling or that you don't support/win very many arguements.


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## Phenomenol (Dec 8, 2006)

So throwing in IRRELEANT garbage like EQUATIONS, posting pure speculative claims (which is NOT even in the comic/manga/anime), and trying to OVERRIDE what the Author is telling, yet you people in this forum dismiss it and try to push your OPINIONS over the facts makes you look inteligent?  Making EXCUSES does NOT help you....

I have red bars because of the OBVIOUS BIAS and hate for DBZ in this damn battledome Forum.... I still to this day get POSITIVE reps!!! Endless Mike goes to other forums to get information, most of the time he doesn't know anything about who he is debating for or against.


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## Kai (Dec 8, 2006)

Phenomenol said:


> So throwing in IRRELEANT garbage like EQUATIONS, posting pure speculative claims (which is NOT even in the comic/manga/anime), and trying to OVERRIDE what the Author is telling, yet you people in this forum dismiss it and try to push your OPINIONS over the facts makes you look inteligent?  Making EXCUSES does NOT help you....
> 
> I have red bars because of the OBVIOUS BIAS and hate for DBZ in this damn battledome Forum....



Cut the flaming. You should(if you haven't already) read Gooba's newly stickied thread up top.

And not every single person that gives you -rep has a hate for DBZ(with over 250,000 -rep that you have). You post such inadequate data and you repeat it forever which drives people crazy. When you're in the face of defeat, live with it and move on. Don't drag it out and hope people will give up to you.


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## Crimson King (Dec 8, 2006)

Phenomenol said:


> *snip*



You have a red bar because you troll and wank off DBZ. Stop using your fanboyism logic here.



As to who can take on DBZ, any omnipotent being can easily solo the entire DBU. The fastest they can move is below lightspeed, which means people like Flash and Thor can speedbltiz them to hell.


----------



## Phenomenol (Dec 8, 2006)

Space said:


> Cut the flaming. You should(if you haven't already) read Gooba's newly stickied thread up top.
> 
> And not every single person that gives you -rep has a hate for DBZ(with over 250,000 -rep that you have). You post such inadequate data and you repeat it forever which drives people crazy. When you're in the face of defeat, live with it and move on. Don't drag it out and hope people will give up to you.



Your just a prime example... I post what the **** is in the manga! and I repaet the same damn FACTS because people like you want to dismiss it and say it is not true. Then you try to post your whack ass theories and equations of why it's wrong when it does NOT apply to the comics. 

Oh.... and about the damn negative reps!! it is the SAME damn haters giving me these neg reps.


----------



## Kai (Dec 8, 2006)

PhENORMOUSLY BIG TROLL said:


> Your just a prime example... I post what the **** is in the manga! and I repaet the same damn FACTS because people like you want to dismiss it and say it is not true. Then you try to post your whack ass theories and equations of why it's wrong when it does NOT apply to the comics.



You understand that you're the main reason the Flash vs Goku thread + the Goku vs Supes thread was locked? What you're doing right now is trolling at an unbelievable rate. When you post something from manga, we accept it and debate against it. We provide evidence from comics. But then, all of a sudden, Phenomenol decides that it's no fair and stomps his feet on the ground!

When you're proved wrong AFTER you provide arguments from the manga...why do you still continue to debate the same issue?

I don't want this to be a pure argument against PhENORMOUSLY BIG TROLL. Eh, Goku could beat Hawkwoman, Storm, Ultimate Quicksilver, Nightwing, Beastboy, Hulk at Base.


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## Phenomenol (Dec 8, 2006)

No.. Those threads were closed because there was FLAMMING from ALL parties. When I provide something YOU ignore it and dismiss quotes stating it is NOT true. Then you guys proceed to post an essay on why it is NOT and try and dismiss it. How in the hell can I be wrong when the FACTS are straight from the ANIME/Manga?


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## Vynjira (Dec 8, 2006)

Phenomenol said:


> So throwing in IRRELEANT garbage like EQUATIONS, posting pure speculative claims (which is NOT even in the comic/manga/anime), and trying to OVERRIDE what the Author is telling you but you still belive your OPINIONS over the facts makes you look inteligent?


Equations help provide evidence calcuable facts. Speculation seems to be coming from your side of the table. Sometimes the Author Suggests things and people misunderstand the author's intentions. Try backing up your opinions with infailable facts.


Phenomenol said:


> Making EXCUSES does NOT help you....


Doesn't seem to be helping you..



Phenomenol said:


> I have red bars because of the OBVIOUS BIAS and hate for DBZ in this damn battledome Forum....


Yet, you continue to post...? Seriously if you don't like the forum you wouldn't post.

To the point tho, I've noticed some biased opinions in favor of comics and some in other anime and some in DBZ. You get more hate when you go around yelling something is better because of this! and then provide nothing to back it up.

Its like putting a bunch of cardboard cut outs of men behind your idea while other people seem to be putting soldiers and guns and tanks behind theirs. In the long term sure I've seen you put valid points behind your arguement but in the end you got like 1900 cut outs 1 soldier and 5 guns and your staring down 4 tanks...


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## Vynjira (Dec 8, 2006)

Space said:


> Hulk at Base.


Goku all out end of series with one blast should be able to kill Hulk in almost any incarnation!


Phenomenol said:


> No.. Those threads were closed because there was FLAMMING from ALL parties. When I provide something YOU ignore it and dismiss quotes stating it is NOT true. Then you guys proceed to post an essay on why it is NOT and try and dismiss it. How in the hell can I be wrong when the FACTS are straight from the ANIME/Manga?


Because sometimes just sometimes those facts are purely speculative interpertations that could mean 5 different things.


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## Phenomenol (Dec 8, 2006)

> Equations help provide evidence calcuable facts. Speculation seems to be coming from your side of the table. Sometimes the Author Suggests things and people misunderstand the author's intentions. Try backing up your opinions with infailable facts.Doesn't seem to be helping you..



The EQUATIONS has NOTHING to do with it when the AUTHOR is letting you know what the Hell is going on. 



> Yet, you continue to post...? Seriously if you don't like the forum you wouldn't post. To the point tho, I've noticed some biased opinions in favor of comics and some in other anime and some in DBZ. You get more hate when you go around yelling something is better because of this! and then provide nothing to back it up.
> 
> Its like putting a bunch of cardboard cut outs of men behind your idea while other people seem to be putting soldiers and guns and tanks behind theirs. In the long term sure I've seen you put valid points behind your arguement but in the end you got like 1900 cut outs 1 soldier and 5 guns and your staring down 4 tanks...



Wrong, I don't go running around like Endless Mike posting crap like "Superman will punch Goku's head off, fight over." That is what is being done in this forum people just hate DBZ because of it's popularity or for whatever else reasons..but People at this forum are MISLEAD about comics by people like Endless Mike who OVEREXXAGERATE characters.

It comes down to the Knowledge of the posters, do they actually know what their debating for or against and the answer is NO. I have mentioned numerous a time that a dozen of characters can Blow away the DBZ universe.

But lets get back on topic please...


----------



## Kai (Dec 8, 2006)

PhenORMOUSLY BIG TROLL said:
			
		

> No.. Those threads were closed because there was FLAMMING from ALL parties. When I provide something YOU ignore it and dismiss quotes stating it is NOT true. Then you guys proceed to post an essay on why it is NOT and try and dismiss it. How in the hell can I be wrong when the FACTS are straight from the ANIME/Manga?



When many people seem to have a problem with you, you shouldn't still think that it's all of us with the problem. You don't see yourself troll and be a reptitive poster.

For example, you override AT's canon when you said all beings in fictional universes and in real life have ki. Did AT say such a statement? No. That's just one example of many, Phenomenol, and that's why you're the perfect ingredient for a negative repping massacre.

As you see, I can but I'm not flaming you whatsoever. Instead, you're throwing names and a childish fit to try to convince us that you're right. I gtg, I don't have time to listen to your flaming ways right now.


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## Phenomenol (Dec 8, 2006)

Space said:


> When many people seem to have a problem with you, you shouldn't still think that it's all of us with the problem. You don't see yourself troll and be a reptitive poster.
> 
> For example, you override AT's canon when you said all beings in fictional universes and in real life have ki. Did AT say such a statement? No. That's just one example of many, Phenomenol, and that's why you're the perfect ingredient for a negative repping massacre.
> 
> As you see, I can but I'm not flaming you whatsoever. Instead, you're throwing names and a childish fit to try to convince us that you're right. I gtg, I don't have time to listen to your flaming ways right now.



Your a prime example...you continue to flame and put troll by my name. 

See if you don't know what your talking about you should be quiet. It is stated in dragonball that KI is "SPIRIT." If you knew anything about ki it is universal EVERY LIVING THING has ki because it is SPIRIT, and that is what Goku senses your spirit.


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## Vynjira (Dec 8, 2006)

Phenomenol said:


> It comes down to the Knowledge of the posters, do they actually know what their debating for or against and *snip*



The answer is clear to the reader. You post pictures of chars lower showings and compare them to DBZ's best showings which is a sign of bad debating. Alot of us give enough respect to at least pit best showings vs best showings.


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## DannyStardust (Dec 8, 2006)

I'd Like to see a Gladiator versus Goku fight. Gladiator has equal if not superior powers to superman. He has all the speed, flight, heat vision and ice breath but what gives him an advantage is the fact that his powers are based on his confidence. Gladiator is pretty cocky too so his superior elite-ist attitude could possibly prevent him from being harmed.

However the speed of some Z warriors could discourage him, and even withstanding a few punches could leave him in a funk, so it's really anyones game.


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## Orion (Dec 8, 2006)

^^did you not just read phenom says that goku could hand pre crisis supes his ass,glad obviously gets stomped by phenoms logic.


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## Phenomenol (Dec 8, 2006)

I said ANIME/MOVIE/GT Goku would hand Pre-Crisis Supes his ass!!!

Care to prove me wrong?


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## Vicious (Dec 8, 2006)

> Goku all out end of series with one blast should be able to kill Hulk in almost any incarnation!


so u think a simple ki blast would kill Savage hulk, devil hulk, cosmos hulk(watever its called), with only a single blast?


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## Vynjira (Dec 8, 2006)

Phenomenol said:


> See if you don't know what your talking about you should be quiet. It is stated in dragonball that KI is "SPIRIT." If you knew anything about ki it is universal EVERY LIVING THING has ki because it is SPIRIT, and that is what Goku senses your spirit.


In Dragonball everything has a Spirit and Ki. Also Ki is Spirit. Thats DRAGONBALL you cannot say that DC has Ki because they are alive the rules of their universe are different. 

Different rules apply, same reason the Force doesn't exist in Dragonball or in DC. For a VS match they both exist but you cannot input vice versa. Jedi do not have ki, DC characters don't have Ki and DBZ characters don't have the Force.

As for Hulk Devil and Savage could very well be one-shot with all of Goku's Ki in one blast. It'd have to be like Cell of course because Savage Hulk had unbelievable regeneration. Either way read what I wrote please never said simple ki blast I'm talkin everything he has in one shot.


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## Orion (Dec 8, 2006)

Phenomenol said:


> I said ANIME/MOVIE/GT Goku would hand Pre-Crisis Supes his ass!!!
> 
> Care to prove me wrong?



care to show me when goku gained enough power to push planets and sneeze and destroy solar systems?


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## Crimson King (Dec 8, 2006)

Even IF(big fi) characters outside DBU have ki, they'd show up as normal human beings. Goku showed trouble pinning down moving beings with high Ki. How the hell is he going to pin down someone like Thor? Thor can easily go FTL and since he would have the ki of a normal human, Goku can't pin down where he is.


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## Phenomenol (Dec 8, 2006)

Vynjira said:


> In Dragonball everything has a Spirit and Ki. Also Ki is Spirit. Thats DRAGONBALL you cannot say that DC has Ki because they are alive the rules of their universe are different.
> 
> Different rules apply, same reason the Force doesn't exist in Dragonball or in DC. For a VS match they both exist but you cannot input vice versa. Jedi do not have ki, DC characters don't have Ki and DBZ characters don't have the Force.



This is ANOTHER example of lack of Knowledge!!! Ki is SPIRIT, EVERYONE has a SPIRIT if they are living. Ki even EXISTS IN the DC UNIVERSE!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jedi's have Spirit, DC characters has SPIRIT and DRagonball characters has SPIRIT!!!!! You are acting like it is some kind of Magic when it is simply SPIRIT!!!! Goku can sense and find you if he wanted too because you are a living being with a spirit.


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## SoulTaker (Dec 8, 2006)

Vynjira said:


> In Dragonball everything has a Spirit and Ki. Also Ki is Spirit. Thats DRAGONBALL you cannot say that DC has Ki because they are alive the rules of their universe are different.
> 
> Different rules apply, same reason the Force doesn't exist in Dragonball or in DC. For a VS match they both exist but you cannot input vice versa. Jedi do not have ki, DC characters don't have Ki and DBZ characters don't have the Force.



Does it really matter?The fights are suppose to take place in a neutral universe that is pretty much amalgam of the universes the two fighters hail from.I'm pretty sure that was in Dark Lyre's rules.

And to the guy that said Goku's speed would freak Gladiator out,Gladiator has FTL showings.


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## Phenomenol (Dec 8, 2006)

vlaaad12345 said:


> care to show me when goku gained enough power to push planets and sneeze and destroy solar systems?



Goku's punches has the power to DAMAGE characters who can SHRUGG of planet destroying attacks Easily. Goku has the power!!!! 

Pre-Crisis Superman only sneezed out a solar system due to the Dust that the 5th dimensional imp sprinkled over him. Hell, even humans were sneezing out buildings and windows so that does not counmt.


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## Orion (Dec 8, 2006)

when has goku took a planet destroying punch to the face?by someone ftl who has heat vision that could probably vaporize a planet along with a vast assortment of other ridiculous powers.


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## Phenomenol (Dec 8, 2006)

He hasn't...but it was stated that he would "SURVIVE" it anyway!!!!!


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## Orion (Dec 8, 2006)

when was it stated that he would ''SURVIVE'' it anyway.


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## Vynjira (Dec 8, 2006)

SoulTaker540 said:


> Does it really matter?


Yes because despite amalgam universe Goku cannot use the force just because the force now exists to him just as Bruce doesn't all of a sudden have Ki and so on they both exisist yes. Altho nothing is stated bout adding abilities to a character by entering in an amalgam. Spirit doesn't exist in a character that doesn't have one to begin with same with Ki the Force Chakra and so on.


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## Phenomenol (Dec 8, 2006)

vlaaad12345 said:


> when was it stated that he would ''SURVIVE'' it anyway.



Volume 27
伝説の超サイヤ人 
Densetsu no Suupaa Saiyajin 
The Legendary Super Saiyan

Chapter 320: 消え去るナメック星と希望 
Kiesaru Namekkusei to Kibou 
Vanishing Planet Nameck and Hope

Kaiou-sama:"Son Gokuu did well, and he certainly could've won one-on-one, but Freeza has destroyed Planet Nameck, and he'll survive its destruction."

Vegeta (saiya-jin saga), Freeza, Cell, and Majin Buu can all take on planet busters.


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## Orion (Dec 8, 2006)

that sounds more like its talking about freeza than goku.and goku didnt have a planet destroying punch or blast fired at him either it was at the planet,goku never had a death ball to the face.


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## Phenomenol (Dec 8, 2006)

The quote is concerning Goku, Goku TOOK a death ball to the face!!! and then Goku proceeds to say to Freeza....

Goku:"You can destroy planets but you can't destroy one man." 

That was right after he took a deathball to the face.^^^^


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## Orion (Dec 8, 2006)

Phenomenol said:


> The quote is concerning Goku, Goku TOOK a death ball to the face!!! and then Goku proceeds to say to Freeza....
> 
> Goku:"You can destroy planets but you can't destroy one man."
> 
> That was right after he took a deathball to the face.^^^^



scans of goku taking a deathball to the face then please.


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## Vynjira (Dec 8, 2006)

In all reality its highly likely Goku could survive planet busting attacks, not dish em out with his fists... but with Ki blasts. Infact Trunks cought one of Frieza's Death Balls with relative ease. When Frieza's power had increased and in his anger he wanted to destroy the planet.


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## Kai (Dec 8, 2006)

PhenORMOUSLY BIG TROLL said:


> This is ANOTHER example of lack of Knowledge!!! Ki is SPIRIT, EVERYONE has a SPIRIT if they are living. Ki even EXISTS IN the DC UNIVERSE!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> Jedi's have Spirit, DC characters has SPIRIT and DRagonball characters has SPIRIT!!!!! You are acting like it is some kind of Magic when it is simply SPIRIT!!!! Goku can sense and find you if he wanted too because you are a living being with a spirit.



I'm back, and I see Phenomenol is still trying to desperately defend Goku.

Alright I have a question for you. You've stated in numerous threads that Goku can sense beings dimensions and lightyears away.

In the anime/manga, when Goku is doing everyday training or just not doing anything, how come he can't sense Flash in another universe going at superspeeds, since you stated that every fictional universe has ki right?

How come he doesn't sense anyone in the Narutoverse, DCU, Kenshinverse, Bleachverse, Pokeverse, TELLITUBBYVERSE?? EVERYTHING should be interacting with his senses. It's because he CAN'T sense them because they have NO KI.

And if you read your fair share of comics in the old days, you would know that Pre-Crisis Supes was unbelievably ridiculous. That guy had super *EVERYTHING...* Super reading, super processing, super kisses, super friction, super senses all around the universe, super knowledge, he was juggling planets, went back in time with ease, and could basically eat every single piece of matter that existed at a virtually unlimited rate.


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## Orion (Dec 8, 2006)

^^yep but  you have to convince phenomenol that goku can loose.which so far all attempts have failed.


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## Vynjira (Dec 8, 2006)

So your just telling him to post scans to teach him how to support his arguement?


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## Orion (Dec 8, 2006)

trying.....but i dont think its working.iv tried and god knows endless mike and others have tried but if he doesnt want to believe or have an open mind about something there is not much we can do,he can just keep believing whatever he wants to.


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## Kai (Dec 8, 2006)

He still has to reply to my post. Just wait for him.


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## Phenomenol (Dec 9, 2006)

vlaaad12345 said:


> scans of goku taking a deathball to the face then please.



Gotta give the fans what they want.....

this picture 

Goku:"You can destroy planets but you can't destroy one man.!" 




			
				space said:
			
		

> I'm back, and I see Phenomenol is still trying to desperately defend Goku.
> 
> Alright I have a question for you. You've stated in numerous threads that Goku can sense beings dimensions and lightyears away. In the anime/manga, when Goku is doing everyday training or just not doing anything, how come he can't sense Flash in another universe going at superspeeds, since you stated that every fictional universe has ki right? How come he doesn't sense anyone in the Narutoverse, DCU, Kenshinverse, Bleachverse, Pokeverse, TELLITUBBYVERSE?? EVERYTHING should be interacting with his senses. It's because he CAN'T sense them because they have NO KI.
> 
> And if you read your fair share of comics in the old days, you would know that Pre-Crisis Supes was unbelievably ridiculous. That guy had super EVERYTHING... Super reading, super processing, super kisses, super friction, super senses all around the universe, super knowledge, he was juggling planets, went back in time with ease, and could basically eat every single piece of matter that existed at a virtually unlimited rate.



First of all, Goku does NOT sense those characters because he is NOT looking for them or fighting them. What does exist and which is fact is SPIRIT!!!! Now if your telling me that Flash and other LIVING beings have no spirit you are full of it.

None of what you stated concerning Pre-Crisis Supes feats has anything to do with his fight with Goku. I actually read Pre-Crisis Comics, but I wonder do you KNOW anything concerning ANIME/MOVIE Goku? If you do then you would know Pre-Crisis Loses...


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## Kuya (Dec 9, 2006)

DannyStardust said:


> I'd Like to see a Gladiator versus Goku fight. Gladiator has equal if not superior powers to superman. He has all the speed, flight, heat vision and ice breath but what gives him an advantage is the fact that his powers are based on his confidence. Gladiator is pretty cocky too so his superior elite-ist attitude could possibly prevent him from being harmed.
> 
> However the speed of some Z warriors could discourage him, and even withstanding a few punches could leave him in a funk, so it's really anyones game.



Did u read my Goku and Gohan vs. Gladiator and Thor fight? It's all there.

And i guess this thread is just going to stay off topic.

So what was concluded is Goku beats Archangel, Captain Britain, and Hawkman. 

Also this isn't a who can/cannot Goku beat thread.

It's a who can/cannot Goku beat who has the ability to fly, superhuman speed and superhuman strength.

Some people put Hulk, Batman, Beastboy, and Storm. I don't think they possess all of my requirements.

Any more? or is this gonna be another everyone vs. Phenomenol thread?


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## Vicious (Dec 9, 2006)

is this who can defeat dbz characters or who cannot beat dbz characters or both?


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## Phenomenol (Dec 9, 2006)

Kuya said:


> Any more? or is this gonna be another everyone vs. Phenomenol thread?



Hey when your so EFFECTIVE your going to have a target on your back.

Phenomenol is always outnumbered but NEVER outgunned!!!


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## SoulTaker (Dec 9, 2006)

Vynjira said:


> In all reality its highly likely Goku could survive planet busting attacks, not dish em out with his fists... but with Ki blasts. Infact Trunks cought one of Frieza's Death Balls with relative ease. When Frieza's power had increased and in his anger he wanted to destroy the planet.



I disagree for a couple of reasons.The only planet buster Goku actually took on killed him,and that was Semi-Perfect Cell's self destruct.And the Trunks catching the Death Ball is filler.

Anyway,in reference to Goku survivng Namek,it is in reference to him surviving the planet being destroyed not him actually taking a planet busting attack.EM did the calculations long ago and he showed you their was less power in the destruction than the actual blast.It wouldn't matter anyway since he didn't take the planet buster and later on when he did he died.



Phenomenol said:


> Gotta give the fans what they want.....
> 
> this picture
> 
> Goku:"You can destroy planets but you can't destroy one man.!"



Wow,Goku took a weaker attack from a Freiza who is half assing it.He didn't take a Deathball to the chin he took a beam,which is weaker.


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## Kuya (Dec 9, 2006)

> is this who can defeat dbz characters or who cannot beat dbz characters or both?



both



Phenomenol said:


> Hey when your so EFFECTIVE your going to have a target on your back.
> 
> Phenomenol is always outnumbered but NEVER outgunned!!!



you sure got a strong will. stay strong homie and stay true to what *u* believe.


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## Kai (Dec 9, 2006)

Phenomenol said:


> Gotta give the fans what they want.....
> 
> this picture
> 
> Goku:"You can destroy planets but you can't destroy one man.!"


Wow, I figured out what he was saying as soon as I saw it. What Goku meant was that Frieza had the *ability* to destroy planets, but he had the *inability* to destroy Goku because of Freiza's constant ki blasts, punches, and kicks being blocked or withstood.
Goku took the death beam head on, but if he took the Death Ball head on, he know he wouldn't survive.



			
				Phenomenol said:
			
		

> First of all, Goku does NOT sense those characters because he is NOT looking for them or fighting them. *What does exist and which is fact is SPIRIT!!!!* Now if your telling me that Flash and other LIVING beings have no spirit you are full of it.


Because Goku isn't looking for Tellytubbies in another universe, that automatically means they have ki?

I'm going to use the concept of Videl's ability to utilize her ki and fly. What you're saying(since everyone has ki), that WE ALL can *utilize* our ki to fly!!!




			
				Phenomenol said:
			
		

> None of what you stated concerning Pre-Crisis Supes feats has anything to do with his fight with Goku. I actually read Pre-Crisis Comics, but I wonder do you KNOW anything concerning ANIME/MOVIE Goku? If you do then you would know Pre-Crisis Loses...


I wouldn't participate in this debate and others if I knew nothing about Goku. I've seen anime/every single movie except..... the 1st one where Gohan was kidnapped by Garlic Jr.
Movie Goku did not do anything even close to what can take Pre-Crisis Supes. Here are his feats not seen in the anime or manga.
1. Absorbing friend's ki[end of 1st broly movie]
2. Super Dragon Fist[Movie 13 against the giant robotic thing, name I forget]
3. Absorbing Mini-Spirit Bomb[Against Android 13] which gave him enormous power.
4. Going "false" SSJ[Lord Slug Movie] He had yellow aura, but his hair stayed black.

Oh, spare me the fact that I missed a few more, but there is absolutely nothing more that he did in the movies that can match Pre-Crisis Supes. 
Why do you think they stopped making comics of this *ridiculously overpowered god?* Oh, wait I just said it. Goku has limits, and AT could just easily make an enemy that's faster or can regenerate[like Buu].
You can't do that with Pre-Crisis Superman. The battles would just be over way too fast because this guy was basically a mid-cosmic being. Don't even get into this because you know Pre-Crisis Superman would destroy Goku.


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## Kai (Dec 9, 2006)

Phenomenol said:


> Guess you didn't know that Goku can allow his speed to become INFINITE by using Shunkan Idou as his Natural speed!!!!!! Pre-Crisis Supes dies.



Now we're back to Square 1 like we always are. Goku can't use IT if there's no ki signal and I've proved to you a thousand times in various different ways how other universes DON'T have IT.

You still didn't respond back to if we have ki, how we can't utilize our ki to fly but Videl can.  

Goku can't use IT infinitely, it takes a sufficient amount of ki... what are you spouting...

You haven't read enough of Pre-Crisis Supes, Phenomenol.


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## Orion (Dec 9, 2006)

your just making shit up!!!!!! pre crisis supes would litterally tear goku in 2 pieces.


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## Id (Dec 9, 2006)

Hm.....what about?
Jesus Cable
Shaman X-Man
Spawn (KoH)
Magento


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## Orion (Dec 9, 2006)

^^id say both cable and x-man could mind rape goku,spawn koh with full acess to his powers would tear goku apart,and well magneto it depends on whether goku can speedblitz before all the iron gets ripped outta his blood.


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## Kuya (Dec 9, 2006)

Id said:


> Hm.....what about?
> Jesus Cable
> Shaman X-Man
> Spawn (KoH)
> Magento



I think Jesus Cable and Shaman X-Man have a pretty good chance of taking on Goku, Vegeta, or Gohan if they use the powers to the fullest.

Hmm Spawn KoH? Can't he summon a massive army?

Magneto. They can beat him if they speed blitz him.


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## Phenomenol (Dec 9, 2006)

Space said:


> Now we're back to Square 1 like we always are. Goku can't use IT if there's no ki signal and I've proved to you a thousand times in various different ways how other universes DON'T have IT.
> 
> You still didn't respond back to if we have ki, how we can't utilize our ki to fly but Videl can.
> 
> ...



Everyone has a SPIRIT......Goku senses the spirit of an individual.

Reni Jusis - Ostatni Raz

Pre-Crisis Supes dies before he moves as well as Superboy-Prime!!!


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## Kai (Dec 9, 2006)

Phenomenol said:


> Everyone has a SPIRIT......Goku senses the spirit of an individual.
> 
> Reni Jusis - Ostatni Raz
> 
> Pre-Crisis Supes dies before he moves as well as Superboy-Prime!!!



Show me once where Goku can sense the spirit of an individual outside the DBU and you win the argument.

Answer my previous question, Phenomenol. Stop trying to avoid it. Of course, that is, you can't explain it....


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## Phenomenol (Dec 9, 2006)

Space said:


> Show me once where Goku can sense the spirit of an individual outside the DBU and you win the argument..



Cause they have a @#$%* SPIRIT!!!!!!


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## Id (Dec 9, 2006)

What about Sentry?? or Void


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## Kai (Dec 9, 2006)

PhenORMOUSLY BIG TROLL said:
			
		

> ;6271350]Cause they have a @#$%* SPIRIT!!!!!!



Yeah that's the best proof ever, it totally turns the tide of the battle.

As usual, you can't prove it. Goku loses against Pre-Crisis Supes.


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## Phenomenol (Dec 9, 2006)

Space said:


> Yeah that's the best proof ever, it totally turns the tide of the battle.
> 
> As usual, you can't prove it. Goku loses against Pre-Crisis Supes.



I don't need to prove that LIVING BEINGS are ALIVE!!!!!!!! and you can NOT live without a SPIRIT...SOUL...LIFE.


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## Jin22 (Dec 9, 2006)

Oh boy...

You guys at it again


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## Kai (Dec 9, 2006)

Phenomenol said:


> I don't need to prove that LIVING BEINGS are ALIVE!!!!!!!! and you can NOT live without a SPIRIT...SOUL...LIFE.



Why does it HAVE to be ki? The same concept applies to chakra as well. It HAS to be ki because you say so and even when AT never stated such a thing?


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## Phenomenol (Dec 9, 2006)

Chakra and Ki are SPIRIT!!!!!! The words SPIRIT are mentioned in Dragonball and Naruto!!!! Ki even EXISTS in REAL LIFE.....


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## Id (Dec 9, 2006)

*Spoiler*: __ 



Superman!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!




While we are in the Subject
Shaka of Virgo. 

Id (as the complete persona)


Massive hard hitters.


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## Kai (Dec 9, 2006)

Phenomenol said:


> Chakra and Ki are SPIRIT!!!!!! The words SPIRIT are mentioned in Dragonball and Naruto!!!! *Ki even EXISTS in REAL LIFE....*.



PROVE IT.It's not even confirmed by PHYSIOLIGISTS OR CRYPTOOLOGISTS, it's your belief... it DOES NOT mean you can apply it to everyone else.


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## Id (Dec 9, 2006)

oh snap Saga of Gemini would lead a massive stompage.

And potentially the coolest character Camus of Aquarius.


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## Phenomenol (Dec 9, 2006)

Space said:


> PROVE IT.It's not even confirmed by PHYSIOLIGISTS OR CRYPTOOLOGISTS, it's your belief... it DOES NOT mean you can apply it to everyone else.



This is NOT the real world, I don't have to prove it.....Ki and Chakra is SPIRIT!!!!...and every living being has it and that is what Goku senses the SPIRIT of a person.


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## Id (Dec 9, 2006)

Phenomenol said:


> Ki and Chakra is SPIRIT!!!!...and every living being has it



Dont forget about Cosmo power. Every being has a cosmo power!!!!.


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## Phenomenol (Dec 9, 2006)

Id said:


> Dont forget about Cosmo power. Every being has a cosmo power!!!!.



Is it another way of saying Spirit...Soul, or life force? Then yes everyone has it.


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## jplaya2023 (Dec 9, 2006)

Space said:


> PROVE IT.It's not even confirmed by PHYSIOLIGISTS OR CRYPTOOLOGISTS, it's your belief... it DOES NOT mean you can apply it to everyone else.



if i die my spirit is gone 

ki and chakra = spirit


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## Id (Dec 9, 2006)

Ok so what about, Adam Warlock w/ Soul gem.

If I remember correctly he can wield the gem to his bidding. (I could be wrong).


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## Kai (Dec 9, 2006)

Alright, my request to ban Phenomenol went through. I was getting irritated by trying to convince that lunatic.

DBZ would lose to all cosmic and omnipotent beings, pretty simple as that.


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## ∅ (Dec 9, 2006)

Sasuke CS2?

Edit: Phenomenol down, Jplaya to go ...


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## Gooba (Dec 9, 2006)

> Edit: Phenomenol down, Jplaya to go ...


Just so you guys know, attitudes like that are just as bad as either of the people you hate.  Talking trash about them all the time is just another form of trolling/flaming.  The key here is to not get personal.


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## Vynjira (Dec 9, 2006)

Michael Demiurgos said:


> Edit: Phenomenol down, Jplaya to go ...



I don't see jplaya as being all that negative imo, just extremly misguided on his opinions.


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## Crimson King (Dec 9, 2006)

he might actually learn to debate properly if he ever listens to other people and learn what canon means.


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## jplaya2023 (Dec 9, 2006)

Gooba said:


> Just so you guys know, attitudes like that are just as bad as either of the people you hate.  Talking trash about them all the time is just another form of trolling/flaming.  The key here is to not get personal.



why did phenom get banned?


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## Orion (Dec 9, 2006)

^^i guess because he refuses to listen to anyones opinions and has become increasingly combative lately,absolutely refusing anyone can beat goku.


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## jplaya2023 (Dec 9, 2006)

vlaaad12345 said:


> ^^i guess because he refuses to listen to anyones opinions and has become increasingly combative lately,absolutely refusing anyone can beat goku.



So thats how he feels still doesnt justify a ban. I wonder what he did


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## Kai (Dec 9, 2006)

jplaya2023 said:


> So thats how he feels still doesnt justify a ban. I wonder what he did



No, I finally got fed up of Phenomenol and how he kept repeating things(you can read throughout these pages he says the EXACT same stuff) and PM'd Gooba to ban Phenomenol for those reasons.

Even after posting in Gooba's newly stickied thread, he basically ignored and posted on his selfish and sef-centered ways which was another reason I was getting irritated by him.

So Jplaya, onto this debate. Which other comic characters do you think, could or could not, defeat DBZ characters?


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## Vynjira (Dec 9, 2006)

Being a stuborn thorn, that insists de-railing and spamming the boards however is a reason especially when the recent post on Trolling and Flaming explained a more active stance against it.


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## jplaya2023 (Dec 9, 2006)

Space said:


> No, I finally got fed up of Phenomenol and how he kept repeating things(you can read throughout these pages he says the EXACT same stuff) and PM'd Gooba to ban Phenomenol for those reasons.
> 
> 
> *you snitched, i cant respect that. Let the mods do their jobs, you remind of ned flanders.*
> ...



No one............

*Being a stuborn thorn, that insists de-railing and spamming the boards however is a reason especially when the recent post on Trolling and Flaming explained a more active stance against it.*

there is an ignore feature


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## Orion (Dec 9, 2006)

^^so no comic chars can beat dbz?


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## jplaya2023 (Dec 9, 2006)

vlaaad12345 said:


> ^^so no comic chars can beat dbz?



In my opinion NO.


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## Vicious (Dec 9, 2006)

the banning starts. lol
anyway, back on topic,

who can beat dbz characters:
any cosmic being, blah blah blah cough pyron cough


who cant:
some ppl


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## Id (Dec 9, 2006)

I don’t think its a good idea to instigate who/why got banned.
Their banned, its temp, and their is nothing we can do about it.


Know on to the subject, if no one wants to debate comic book characters vs. DBZ then this thread has lost its purpose and should be trashed.


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## Orion (Dec 9, 2006)

just had to do pyron huh lol,who can umm id say supes 1 million or prime could,who cant alot of earth heroes lol.


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## Kai (Dec 9, 2006)

jplaya2023 said:
			
		

> you snitched, i cant respect that. Let the mods do their jobs, you remind of ned flanders.


The mods did their job. Gooba banned Phenomenol. I didn't snitch at all, his posts are always there, it's not like it's only available for me to see.



			
				jplaya2023 said:
			
		

> So what, he wasnt knocking you, *he posted how he felt* and you snitch.


I'm perfectly fine with that. But 293840938 times? That's more than I can handle.



			
				jplaya2023 said:
			
		

> No one............


Wrong. The One Above All can just think the DBZverse gone, and the entire thing would never exist, no proof that it ever existed, and never exist again.

And about the ignore feature: I could do that, however it's well more than me that's fed up with Phenomenol. Anyone who's not an extreme fanboy of DBZ can see what he does and his nonending fanboyism of Goku. I didn't want other people to start flaming on him and a flamewar to start. I simply PM'd Gooba to ban him and save everyone else to deal with him. It's ultimately up to Gooba to ban him or not- He has his reasons to ban Phenomenol, so you shouldn't blame me for it. If you really want to discuss the issue, discuss it with him in PM's.


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## Jay (Dec 9, 2006)

I know it's anoying when people are saying dbz can beat omnipotent's when it is clearly obvious they can't, but rather then getting so mad about there opinion's you should just be the bigger man and walk away there's no point constantly arguing over the same shit all the time.
And at least you had the courage to admit you got him banned but to be honest it was really sly getting somebody banned just for stating there opinion's.


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## Orion (Dec 9, 2006)

^^have you read phenoms other posts over the last like 3 months theyre all like that all he does is say the same thing over and over,he doesnt listen to anyones opinions and refuses to believe even for a second goku can loose.


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## jplaya2023 (Dec 9, 2006)

vlaaad12345 said:


> ^^have you read phenoms other posts over the last like 3 months theyre all like that all he does is say the same thing over and over,he doesnt listen to anyones opinions and refuses to believe even for a second goku can loose.



So what still isnt a reason to snitch and have him banned. Should someone report you because you believe superman can beat goku?


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## Kai (Dec 9, 2006)

jplaya2023 said:


> So what still isnt a reason to snitch and have him banned. Should someone report you because you believe superman can beat goku?



This thread isn't open for discussion of Phenomenol. I've already stated everything in my last post, so go back and read.

How would you say Goku can defeat The One Above All?


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## Vynjira (Dec 9, 2006)

Jaydaime said:


> to be honest it was really sly getting somebody banned just for stating there opinion's.


To be honest he was argueing to argue not to say his opinion, More importantly even if he WASN'T argueing to argue, EVERYONE knew what he was going to say. There is no point in posting at all if everyone knows what your gonna say. Also if half the forum is gonna put him on ignore then he might as well not be here at all.

Now, get over it. The decision was made, by a forum mod none the less. If he saw fit there was a reason for a ban then clearly there was a reason for a ban. Back to the topic.. please.


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## Jay (Dec 9, 2006)

Vynjira said:


> To be honest he was argueing to argue not to say his opinion, More importantly even if he WASN'T argueing to argue, EVERYONE knew what he was going to say. There is no point in posting at all if everyone knows what your gonna say. Also if half the forum is gonna put him on ignore then he might as well not be here at all.
> 
> Now, get over it. The decision was made, by a forum mod none the less. If he saw fit there was a reason for a ban then clearly there was a reason for a ban. Back to the topic.. please.


Okay calm down... there's no need to put cap's lock on  .
And I allready was on topic I said it's clear that dbz cant beat omnipotent's which they cant.


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## Crimson King (Dec 9, 2006)

People who can totoally curbstomp the DBU:

Il?vatar
Melkor
Galactus with UN
Bugs Bunny with toonforce
Devil Hulk
Guilt Hulk
The Shrike
Ultimate Intelligence
Deadpool with his wisecracks
Thanos
Odin
Dr.Doom with prep
Richard Reed with prep
Thor


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## Comic Book Guy (Dec 9, 2006)

Seems like the DBZ vs. comic character topics have taken an altered turn lately. . .

I'll have to rectify my absence.


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## Gooba (Dec 9, 2006)

jplaya, Space didn't affect my decision in the least.  Since my announcement I've made extra sure to read all of the Battledome.  I've seen Phenom's posts for a long time now, and I knew the road he was headed down.  I gave him fair warning, and then he just kept on the same as always.  It took me a few days to actually ban him since like I said, trolling is a sensitive issue, and also like I said, I was giving him a pass for the past.  Trolling isn't something you can get banned for in a day (unless it is the obvious spammy or flamey kind).    

Now either get back on topic and off Phenom, or I'll have to close this for being derailed.


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## Orion (Dec 9, 2006)

still cant believe jplaya thinks no comic book character can beat goku....,how is goku going to survive being erased from existance thrown into the sun,put in other dimensions or wished out of existance jplaya.


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## omg laser pew pew! (Dec 9, 2006)

Crimson King said:


> People who can totoally curbstomp the DBU:
> 
> Il?vatar
> *Melkor*
> ...



Maybe before he enterted Arda but Melkor would get royally stomped. You read what Fingolfin did to him?


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## Galt (Dec 9, 2006)

Yeah, but who the hell expected Fingolfin to manage that?  I was like "OMG FINGOLFIN YOU ROCK SO HARD!!1"  I mean, I thought he'd scratch him or something.


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## Kuya (Dec 10, 2006)

quick question. banned means ur banned indefinately or temporarily? or from just this thread? 

because i really didn't mean for Phenom to get banned because of this thread. Sucks cuz he actually sticks up for himself a lot on this forum and fights back and fights what he *believes* in. Even tho i disagreed with him a lot of the time, i honestly don't think he deserved to get banned. He made threads more interesting.

Edit: At least we got Comic Book Guy back.


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## Gooba (Dec 10, 2006)

Kuya said:


> quick question. banned means ur banned indefinately or temporarily? or from just this thread?
> 
> because i really didn't mean for Phenom to get banned because of this thread. Sucks cuz he actually sticks up for himself a lot on this forum and fights back and fights what he *believes* in. Even tho i disagreed with him a lot of the time, i honestly don't think he deserved to get banned. He made threads more interesting.
> 
> Edit: At least we got Comic Book Guy back.


3 Day ban.  It is perfectly fine for him to stick up for what he believed in, it was just the manner that he did it in.  He was acting like an asshole, in more places than just this thread, and it got over the line.


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## Kuya (Dec 10, 2006)

Gooba said:


> 3 Day ban.  It is perfectly fine for him to stick up for what he believed in, it was just the manner that he did it in.  He was acting like an asshole, in more places than just this thread, and it got over the line.



Oh 3 days ain't bad. So everyone that has the ban and line through their name ias only 3 days? good to know. aite keep posting on my topic everyone.


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## Cthulhu-versailles (Dec 10, 2006)

How do yall think Goku would do against

Omniman
Invincible 
Spawn (Before Powerup thing)
Blink.....


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## SoulTaker (Dec 10, 2006)

Shouldn't we just trash this and post in Keollyn's topic since this turned into who can/can't beat Goku.I'll bump it for you guys,it's actually quite good.


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## ∅ (Dec 10, 2006)

jplaya2023 said:


> In my opinion NO.


You're at Superherohype as well, and there after I showed you some features you accepted that Pre-retcon Beyonder was one of the few people that could defeat Gokou.


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## jplaya2023 (Dec 10, 2006)

Michael Demiurgos said:


> You're at Superherohype as well, and there after I showed you some features you accepted that Pre-retcon Beyonder was one of the few people that could defeat Gokou.



I'm talking about fighting, Pre Rectom Beyonder can make you never exist so of course you cant beat. But if he was ever to fight goku straight up without cheating there is no way he can win


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## ∅ (Dec 10, 2006)

jplaya2023 said:


> I'm talking about fighting, Pre Rectom Beyonder can make you never exist so of course you cant beat. But if he was ever to fight goku straight up without cheating there is no way he can win



Hmm ... Well I guess, the funny thing is, I was like that too when I first got on SHH.
Take a look, I'm SSJ4 Mikael


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## Comic Book Guy (Dec 10, 2006)

> I'm talking about fighting, Pre Rectom Beyonder can make you never exist so of course you cant beat. But if he was ever to fight goku straight up without cheating there is no way he can win



A battle is a battle. That is fighting.

Goku has his powers, abilities, and capabilities. Ki, super physical abilities and capabilities, flight, teleportation, and power-up transformations coupled with martial arts.

In addition, not every fight is conducted with ki blasts, flight, and h2h combat. Not every fictional character can meet those requirements.

Every other character has to do with what they got.


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