# Jutsu vs Jutsu: long-ranged Kamui vs Yata Mirror.



## StarWanderer (Aug 17, 2015)

Take a look at here.



And here.



Can Kamui affect Yata Mirror?

And another, minor quastion - am i the only one who thinks Databooks are bullcrap which have lots of stupidity and false statements contradicted by manga?


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## Alex Payne (Aug 17, 2015)

Unless Yata changes itself into Kamui-shield it should be warped away without problems.


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## Sorin (Aug 17, 2015)

Should have learned by now that Kamui is the most broken jutsu this manga has seen. I mean seriously, Kishi had to restrict Juubito's use of MS so the aliance can stand a chance. We've seen what Kakashi with a little bit of RS chakra was able to do. Imagine a Juubi jin.


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## Deer Lord (Aug 17, 2015)

I want Raikiri19 and Grimmjow to comment in this thread
for reasons


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## StarWanderer (Aug 17, 2015)

One Databook says any attack lose it's meaning after hitting Yata Mirror, another Databook says there is no defence against Kamui.


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## LostSelf (Aug 17, 2015)

Feats vs Hype .

It took away Madara's black shield. It's taking away Yata. In fact, it can take away Yata along with Susano'o and Itachi if Kakashi ever fought offensively like that.


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## Alex Payne (Aug 17, 2015)

StarWanderer said:


> One Databook says any attack lose it's meaning after hitting Yata Mirror, another Databook says there is no defence against Kamui.


Well. Kamui isn't technically hitting Yata. And the part about "no defense" is based around the mechanics behind Space/Time portal. Even pure hype often has context behind it.


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## StarWanderer (Aug 17, 2015)

Alex Payne said:


> Well. Kamui isn't technically hitting Yata. And the part about "no defense" is based around the mechanics behind Space/Time portal. Even pure hype often has context behind it.



"All attacks, whether from a material, or astral body, ninjutsu or physical, lose their meaning."

"Against this technique, no defense is possible".

So what happens if somebody attacks Yata Mirror with long-ranged Kamui?


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## Tarot (Aug 17, 2015)

The only people I see taking databook hyperbole at face value are Itachi fanboys who want to justify yata mirror hype.


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## Garcher (Aug 17, 2015)

Yata MIrror: Absolute defense, Itachi: completely invincible. 

Black Zetsu said so himself

Yata is superior and Kamui is unable to go through it


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## The Undying (Aug 17, 2015)

StarWanderer said:


> So what happens if somebody attacks Yata Mirror with long-ranged Kamui?



The universe implodes on itself and everything is instantly erased from existence.


*Spoiler*: _Serious answer_ 



Kamui isn't strictly an "attack" by Yata's standards, making it a loophole, so it bypasses Yata's defenses and warps it to Kamuiland anyway. Itachi's shield isn't overpowered, just robbed from him.


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## DaVizWiz (Aug 17, 2015)

A distortion in space (Kamui) is not something that can be countered by anything but simply not being in that area.

Nothing takes precedent over space, everything that exists plays by it's rules.

A rip in space means anything occupying that area will be taken to the other space, unless you can escape it by manipulating space yourself (FTG).


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## StarWanderer (Aug 17, 2015)

> Kamui isn't strictly an "attack" by Yata's standards, making it a loophole, so it bypasses Yata's defenses and warps it to Kamuiland anyway. Itachi's shield isn't overpowered, just robbed from him.



Yata Mirror was said to render any attack, no matter what attack it is, meaningless. When Kamui opens a dimensional hole in Yata Mirror, it warps the space-time and the Yata Mirror itself. But Yata Mirror was said to render any attack meaningless. So i wonder what happens.


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## Ryuzaki (Aug 17, 2015)

Kamui trumped a truthseeker, for all intents and purposes, Yata Mirror has the same effect as a truth-seeker. Since, you cannot use ninjutsu or taijutsu on a truthseeker either, however, Kamui was able to work fine. The limitations on the Yata Mirror are obvious (not malleable enough to encompass Itachi in a 360 manner). The truth-seeker can do all of those things and essentially has shown to have faster activation time than someone using the Yata Mirror.

The naturally ability of Kamui is to link dimensions and permit transportation, the way Kakashi and Obito used it in fights is an alternative application of the technique (e.g. intangibility and long-range sniping) but it does the same exact thing. 

No reason to assume that Kamui would fail against a weaker version of a truthseeker, when it worked on the actual thing itself.


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## The Undying (Aug 17, 2015)

StarWanderer said:


> Yata Mirror was said to render any attack, no matter what attack it is, meaningless. When Kamui opens a dimensional hole in Yata Mirror, it warps the space-time and the Yata Mirror itself. But Yata Mirror was said to render any attack meaningless. So i wonder what happens.



Yes, but to _attack_ something would imply that one is acting in an assaulting manner to harm, injure or destroy that particular object. Kamui would technically only be transporting the space occupied by the shield in question to another dimension, not _directly assaulting_ it, and by then it's rendered useless as a result of no longer being wielded in combat.

So even if Yata could repel any attack (which I doubt, but for the sake of entertainment), that attribute doesn't apply to a space-distorting jutsu like Kamui.


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## StarWanderer (Aug 18, 2015)

The Undying said:


> Yes, but to _attack_ something would imply that one is acting in an assaulting manner to harm, injure or destroy that particular object. Kamui would technically only be transporting the space occupied by the shield in question to another dimension, not _directly assaulting_ it, and by then it's rendered useless as a result of no longer being wielded in combat.
> 
> So even if Yata could repel any attack (which I doubt, but for the sake of entertainment), that attribute doesn't apply to a space-distorting jutsu like Kamui.



Lets say Kakashi tries to harm Yata Mirror by making a hole in it with long-ranged Kamui. By making a hole, he will distort the Yata Mirror itself and damage it. But can he realy do that?


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## Mercurial (Aug 18, 2015)

Both have basically similar hype.

Kamui has far better feats (working on ninjutsu nullificating Gudodama, being said unstoppable by someone who knows about the Rinnegan's Preta Path and Shinra Tensei) so Kamui should work as usually. Rikudo chakra enhanced Kamui from DMS Kakashi (or DMS Obito) should be really undebatable. Not to mention that Kakashi could simply warp Itachi in Susanoo, or Susanoo itself from the back.


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## Arles Celes (Aug 18, 2015)

I think Yata only protects from physical attacks. Stuff like genjutsu or space time stuff is not something even the mightiest shield can protect from.


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## Brooks (Aug 19, 2015)




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## Grimmjowsensei (Aug 19, 2015)

Yata nullifies ninjutsu. Kamui's STJ barrier can't appear on Yata as it will get nullified.


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## StarWanderer (Aug 19, 2015)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> Yata nullifies ninjutsu. Kamui's STJ barrier can't appear on Yata as it will get nullified.



But the Databook says there is no defense against Kamui...


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## Mercurial (Aug 19, 2015)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> Yata nullifies ninjutsu. Kamui's STJ barrier can't appear on Yata as it will get nullified.



Gudodama nullifies ninjutsu (with actual feats to do it, while Yata has no nullifying feats, and at best it stopped some explosive tags lol). Kamui's STJ barrier can't appear on Gudodama as it will get nullified. Oh wait... in the actual manga even non Rikudo enhanced Kamui worked on Gudodama.

Rinnegan with Preta nullifies ninjutsu by absorbing them and with Shinra Tensei by repelling them (with actual feats to do it, while Yata has no nullifying feats, and at best it stopped some explosive tags lol). Kamui's STJ barrier can't appear agaist Rinnegan users as it will get absorbed or repelled. Oh wait... in the actual manga when Kamui was stopped by someone wielding a Rinnegan, the arguably smartest character in the manga, with full knowledge on Rinnegan powers, didn't even consider that Rinnegan could have been used to stop Kamui, on the opposite he stated that nothing could have stopped Kamui.

And if you want hype, that's no problem "... against this technique no defense is possible"


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## LostSelf (Aug 19, 2015)

Zetsu said "It's said". He didn't affirm anything. Actually, it's like he only heard tales and legends, just like Hashirama's hype, or Pain's hype.

If we take hype extremely literal (only when it's convenient) then we will be getting nowhere. Kamui has also a perfect hype. So wich one do we take? Not hating on Yata, but Kamui has similar hype and updated feats to back it up.

When BZ made that statement, it was clearly not the same Zetsu that fought alongside Kaguya.


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## Mercurial (Aug 19, 2015)

LostSelf said:


> Zetsu said "It's said". He didn't affirm anything. Actually, it's like he only heard tales and legends, just like Hashirama's hype, or Pain's hype.
> 
> If we take hype extremely literal (only when it's convenient) then we will be getting nowhere. Kamui has also a perfect hype. So wich one do we take? Not hating on Yata, but Kamui has similar hype and updated feats to back it up.
> 
> When BZ made that statement, it was clearly not the same Zetsu that fought alongside Kaguya.



Yeah, basically even if both have very similar top notch hype, Kamui has actual feats that support his hype.

Not to mention that Zetsu didn't even know about Susanoo lol.


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## Grimmjowsensei (Aug 19, 2015)

Raikiri19 said:


> Gudodama nullifies ninjutsu (with actual feats to do it, while Yata has no nullifying feats, and at best it stopped some explosive tags lol). Kamui's STJ barrier can't appear on Gudodama as it will get nullified. Oh wait... in the actual manga even non Rikudo enhanced Kamui worked on Gudodama.
> 
> Rinnegan with Preta nullifies ninjutsu by absorbing them and with Shinra Tensei by repelling them (with actual feats to do it, while Yata has no nullifying feats, and at best it stopped some explosive tags lol). Kamui's STJ barrier can't appear agaist Rinnegan users as it will get absorbed or repelled. Oh wait... in the actual manga when Kamui was stopped by someone wielding a Rinnegan, the arguably smartest character in the manga, with full knowledge on Rinnegan powers, didn't even consider that Rinnegan could have been used to stop Kamui, on the opposite he stated that nothing could have stopped Kamui.
> 
> And if you want hype, that's no problem "... against this technique no defense is possible"



Yata has different mechanics though. Its working princible isn't the same with godoudama.


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## Ersa (Aug 20, 2015)

OP seems salty.

Must be a Gaara fan.


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## TehDarkDarkOfPerdition (Aug 20, 2015)

I thought we knew that the Yata reflects attacks by mirroring the same kind of attack, like a mirror.

TSB have 5 basic natures plus Yin-Yang, the mirror has all Natures.

The only difference between them is that TSB is always active and destroys matter/energy, while the Yata reflects attacks by copying the move used to attack it.

Here, the result is the same as when Obito stopped Kakashi from trying to rip the Gedo's head off. The mirror cancels the move that same way Obito stopped Kakashi's Kamui.

You can't dehype the Yata Mirror, for it reflects your dehype attempt onto yourself.


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