# Double Rinnegan Madara VS Rinnegan Sasuke



## Ashi (Jul 4, 2014)

IMO I think Madara wins

But I wonder how well Sasuke would do against him if he had all the rinnegan

Madara has Ten tails and has Sealed the tree left behind from Obito
IC

No Restrictions


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## Kai (Jul 4, 2014)

Madara gets destroyed unless he's a Juubi's Jinchuuriki.


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## Ashi (Jul 4, 2014)

Kai said:


> Madara gets destroyed unless he's a Juubi's Jinchuuriki.



I didn't think that needed clarifying but nonetheless I'll add it to the OP


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## Blu-ray (Jul 4, 2014)

If Mads is the Juubi Jin, then Sasuke can't win, plain and simple. He won't die instantly, but he has no means to but Madara down. If it's before the Jin, well, we know the answer to that.


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## Alex Payne (Jul 4, 2014)

2 Rinnegan Jin Madara > Rinnegan Sauce ~ 1 Rinnegan Jin Madara imo

I don't think that Sasuke alone can handle several Limbo Clones + multiple Chibaku Tensei spam. At least not before mastering his latest power up and showing more stuff in the current fight.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## MusubiKazesaru (Jul 4, 2014)

alex payne said:


> 2 Rinnegan Jin Madara > Rinnegan Sauce ~ 1 Rinnegan Jin Madara imo
> 
> I don't think that Sasuke alone can handle several Limbo Clones + multiple Chibaku Tensei spam. At least not before mastering his latest power up and showing more stuff in the current fight.



He handles it just fine, PS carves through CT like butter and he can dodge, see, and react to limbo especially with his S/T technique.


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## SubtleObscurantist (Jul 4, 2014)

After absorbing the tree, which honestly did nothing but somewhat boost Madara's chakra reserves, which were never in question in the first place, and after losing Gedou Dama, Madara still commented that Naruto couldn't beat him. This was after seeing Naruto's power first hand. 

Naruto did not disagree with this assessment but said he wasn't alone and that's when Sasuke showed up. My takeaway from this is that Madara would beat Sasuke even with one eye. With both, he could probably match the two of them together.


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## MusubiKazesaru (Jul 4, 2014)

SubtleObscurantist said:


> After absorbing the tree, which honestly did nothing but somewhat boost Madara's chakra reserves, which were never in question in the first place, and after losing Gedou Dama, Madara still commented that Naruto couldn't beat him. This was after seeing Naruto's power first hand.
> 
> Naruto did not disagree with this assessment but said he wasn't alone and that's when Sasuke showed up. My takeaway from this is that Madara would beat Sasuke even with one eye. With both, he could probably match the two of them together.



From what was being shown even with both eyes Naruto was more than holding his own and displaying better feats. Kage Bunshin + BBRS > MCT and YRS cut down the Shinju tree. There's no reason for Naruto to say anything like that since he'd be underestimating a Juubi Jinchuuriki.


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## Ashi (Jul 4, 2014)

MusubiKazesaru said:


> He handles it just fine, PS carves through CT like butter and he can dodge, see, and react to limbo especially with his S/T technique.



He was on the defensive against just one meteorite, with the rest in store and the clones to boot

Not lookin too good for the Sauce


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## MusubiKazesaru (Jul 4, 2014)

TensaXZangetsu said:


> He was on the defensive against just one meteorite, with the rest in store and the clones to boot
> 
> Not lookin too good for the Sauce



I do agree that he'd lose though, but Madara would have a hard time putting him down for good. I'd actually ague that Naruto could win however


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## Ashi (Jul 4, 2014)

MusubiKazesaru said:


> I do agree that he'd lose though, but Madara would have a hard time putting him down for good. I'd actually ague that Naruto could win however



Solo?

I doubt it,

For a second there it did truly seem as if Madara was immortal

and I dont feel like making another thread for it


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## MusubiKazesaru (Jul 4, 2014)

TensaXZangetsu said:


> Solo?
> 
> I doubt it,
> 
> ...



I'm pretty sure this is all that needs to be said


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## Ashi (Jul 4, 2014)

MusubiKazesaru said:


> I'm pretty sure this is all that needs to be said



I understand but you gotta restrict just one thing


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## MusubiKazesaru (Jul 4, 2014)

TensaXZangetsu said:


> I understand but you gotta restrict just one thing



That I can agree on for the moment


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## StickaStick (Jul 4, 2014)

Does Double-Rinnegan Mads also have the Tomoe-Rinnegan in his forehead or no? Either way I'd favor Mads here.


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## SubtleObscurantist (Jul 4, 2014)

MusubiKazesaru said:


> From what was being shown even with both eyes Naruto was more than holding his own and displaying better feats. Kage Bunshin + BBRS > MCT and YRS cut down the Shinju tree. There's no reason for Naruto to say anything like that since he'd be underestimating a Juubi Jinchuuriki.



He was holding his own against Madara's distractions. Madara himself wasn't trying to fight. He was only stalling to get his plan off the ground.


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## egressmadara (Jul 4, 2014)

Madara would win. I think it's been well demonstrated that individually neither Naruto nor Sasuke can take down a two-eyed Madara by themselves, in fact they were having immense difficulty trying to even tag him after he got two eyes. Individually, they could definitely take him down when he had only one-eye.


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## Deleted member 211714 (Jul 4, 2014)

Without plot-induced stupidity, Madara w/ Rinnegan x2 and no Juubi would wreck Current Sasuke.
He toyed around that entire fight and should have been Hagoromo's equal, but his arrogance set him back and resulted in seas of Naruto/Sasuke fan jizz on this forum. 

If Madara's prowess with Rinnegan is scaled to Nagato, he should be infinitely more powerful; it appears that he mastered Six Paths on another level.


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## Ashi (Jul 4, 2014)

King Itachi said:


> Without plot-induced stupidity, Madara w/ Rinnegan x2 and no Juubi would wreck Current Sasuke.
> He toyed around that entire fight and should have been Hagoromo's equal, but his arrogance set him back and resulted in seas of Naruto/Sasuke fan jizz on this forum.
> 
> If Madara's prowess with Rinnegan is scaled to Nagato, he should be infinitely more powerful; it appears that he mastered Six Paths on another level.



Madara may be arrogant but he's the one to get things done as efficiently as possible Ifhe wanted either of them dead he'd go as ham as possible( yin-yang seal > him)


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## Deleted member 211714 (Jul 4, 2014)

TensaXZangetsu said:


> Madara may be arrogant but he's the one to get things done as efficiently as possible Ifhe wanted either of them dead he'd go as ham as possible( yin-yang seal > him)



If that were to happen, Naruto and Sasuke would be dead right now.
Kishi already stated that JJ Madara is one freaking monster, and he was also unsure how to defeat him.

A mixture of plot-induced stupidity, arrogance, asspull powers from Rikudou and having him outed by BZ - due to said arrogance and lack of knowledge - will result in anyone's defeat. I don't think people are understanding literary context, to be frank. Obito's hype when he referred to Madara w/ both Rinnegan is irrefutable proof in itself.


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## SubtleObscurantist (Jul 4, 2014)

TensaXZangetsu said:


> Madara may be arrogant but he's the one to get things done as efficiently as possible Ifhe wanted either of them dead he'd go as ham as possible( yin-yang seal > him)



You must be joking. Madara is one of the least efficient fighters ever. It's why he spends so much time standing around and doesn't so much use combination moves as throws out random powerful jutsu.


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## Cognitios (Jul 4, 2014)

Juubidara takes this mid-high diff. 
Both Naruto and Sasuke were needed to put him down. portrayal wise.


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## Psp123789 (Jul 4, 2014)

King Itachi said:


> Without plot-induced stupidity, Madara w/ Rinnegan x2 and no Juubi would wreck Current Sasuke.
> *He toyed around that entire fight and should have been Hagoromo's equal, but his arrogance set him back and resulted in seas of Naruto/Sasuke fan jizz on this forum.*
> 
> If Madara's prowess with Rinnegan is scaled to Nagato, he should be infinitely more powerful; it appears that he mastered Six Paths on another level.


Madara's arrogance wasn't why he was getting his ass kicked by Naruto/Sasuke or else he would not have desperately tried to get other power ups in order to face them. His lack of power was the main reason he was losing and he obviously realized that. Also Madara didn't seem like he knew how to use the powers of the juubi. There's also the fact that naruto and sasuke as a team are portrayed as > or equal to the SO6P and haven't even shown what they are fully capable of so this wasn't really surprising. Though his arrogance was the reason gai and the others humiliated him.


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## Deleted member 211714 (Jul 4, 2014)

Psp123789 said:


> Madara's arrogance wasn't why he was getting his ass kicked by Naruto/Sasuke or else he would not have desperately tried to get other power ups in order to face them. His lack of power was the main reason he was losing and he obviously realized that. Also Madara didn't seem like he knew how to use the powers of the juubi. *There's also the fact that naruto and sasuke as a team are portrayed as > or equal to the SO6P* and haven't even shown what they are fully capable of so this wasn't really surprising. Though his arrogance was the reason gai and the others humiliated him.



Madara's arrogance, combined with a plethora of other reasons I'd mentioned previously, were the reasons why his performance was lackluster in those bouts. With the amount of power under his belt, the logical answer to that downfall is my proposal. Neither Gai, Naruto nor Sasuke stand any kind of chance against Madara individually. Without PIS and arrogance, I'd argue that Shinju Madara w/ three eyes can take the trio with moderate difficulty...or possibly less if he distracts them via Chibaku Tensei and spams the guys into oblivion with Juubidama - enhanced by Hashirama's Senjutsu - and he can also kill everyone through a country-sized Shinra Tensei (if that was his true goal). Only wankers, like you, are going to defend Naruto/Sasuke in this case.

There's no reason why Madara wouldn't be able to handle Juubi on the same level as Obito, considering he's far stronger (courtesy of Minato) and happened to be Indra's reincarnation that gained Rinnegan x2 by himself. Additionally, his form of Juubi was more complete, as it contained Gyuuki and half of Kyuubi. Obito could barely handle one of Madara's Rinnegan, and Madara also has Hashirama's Sage Mode with Mokuton. Logically, his Senpou: PS that's powered by Juubi (and possibly Rinnegan) - through his living body - should be far stronger than what Sasuke has shown. We know why these techniques weren't displayed, though!

I can keep going on, but people will never understand. Prior to being incapacitated, Madara was stronger than anyone that isn't named Hagoromo - who I consider his close equal - and the likes of Kaguya, who has also had an underwhelming performance and might be even weaker than Madara (in terms of overall power and mindset); her space-time technique is just really hax.

EDIT: And I don't know where the fuck your bolded statement came from.


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## Ashi (Jul 4, 2014)

SubtleObscurantist said:


> You must be joking. Madara is one of the least efficient fighters ever. It's why he spends so much time standing around and doesn't so much use combination moves as throws out random powerful jutsu.



Ten Tailed Revival arc Madara maybe

But IT Arc  Madara was able to acomplish the Infinite Tsukuyomi way faster than Obito did

Combat wise he does whatever he needs to make sure he can put down his enemy

He's only fought a handful of opponents able to spar with him to the point he needs to combo his attacks


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## Psp123789 (Jul 4, 2014)

King Itachi said:


> Madara's arrogance, combined with a plethora of other reasons I'd mentioned previously, were the reasons why his performance was lackluster in those bouts. With the amount of power under his belt, the logical answer to that downfall is my proposal. Neither Gai, Naruto nor Sasuke stand any kind of chance against Madara individually. Without PIS and arrogance, I'd argue that Shinju Madara w/ three eyes can take the trio with moderate difficulty...or possibly less if he distracts them via Chibaku Tensei and spams the guys into oblivion with Juubidama - enhanced by Hashirama's Senjutsu - and he can also kill everyone through a country-sized Shinra Tensei (if that was his true goal). Only wankers, like you, are going to defend Naruto/Sasuke in this case.


 First of all I was talking about how Naruto/Sasuke performed against Madara before he got both rinnegans so I do not know why the hell you are mentioning him when he hasn't shown really anything at all. Second of all Why are you pitting Madara against Naruto or Sasuke individually when I never even stated they could beat him individually. There's also the fact that by feats Naruto/Sasuke individually are > or equal to 1 eyed Juubidara and as a team are >>shinju absorbed Madara. Also you're making bullshit assumptions now considering that he has never used ST so we wouldn't even know the scale of it and we don't even know what the results of that fight would have been since Madara got a hand stuck into him before they could even fight. Also Naruto and Sasuke have not even showed what they are fully capable of so I could use the same bullshit logic you're using to wank Madara. Fact is that Madara before getting 2 rinnegans was not strong enough to beat Naruto and Sasuke and its debatable whether or not he can beat them with it. Stop wanking Madara.



> There's no reason why Madara wouldn't be able to handle Juubi on the same level as Obito, considering he's far stronger (courtesy of Minato) and happened to be Indra's reincarnation that gained Rinnegan x2 by himself. Additionally, his form of Juubi was more complete, as it contained Gyuuki and half of Kyuubi. Obito could barely handle one of Madara's Rinnegan, and Madara also has Hashirama's Sage Mode with Mokuton. Logically, his Senpou: PS that's powered by Juubi (and possibly Rinnegan) - through his living body - should be far stronger than what Sasuke has shown. We know why these techniques weren't displayed, though!


 Lol when did I ever say that Madara shouldn't be able to use the juubi as well as Obito did? You're still using he same bullshit logic. Seems like you're still trying to prove that Madara can beat Naruto/Sasuke individually instead of judging how they would have done against him together. Do you even understand what I was trying to say?



> I can keep going on, but people will never understand. Prior to being incapacitated, Madara was stronger than anyone that isn't named Hagoromo - who I consider his close equal - and the likes of Kaguya, who has also had an underwhelming performance and might be even weaker than Madara (in terms of overall power and mindset); her space-time technique is just really hax.


Prior to his death Madara was stronger than any individual not named Hagoromo or Kaguya. Madara's arrogance isn't the only reason he was getting whooped against the duo and Madara's fight against them proved it. How are you judging Kaguya's power when she ust appeared and isn't even using her real power right now? 



> EDIT: And I don't know where the fuck your bolded statement came from.


They are fighting kaguya who was stated to be on a whole other lvl than juudara and they received Hagoromo's yang and yin power. They are at least in the same tier.


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## blackguyinpinksuit (Jul 4, 2014)

He would have a far easier time defeating naruto with IT since he has zero resistance to it. Sasuke on the other hand has resistance to it so i will just give madara the win due to having more potent/meaningful powers. A full arsenal of limbo clones, full arsenal of TSB, regen/immortality, and his CT should allow him to overwhelm sasuke.


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## SubtleObscurantist (Jul 4, 2014)

It's not that much of an assumption that Madara should be able to use his dojutsu that he used beforehand, and that he had Rinnegan techs. He explicitly stated he was going to teach Rinnegan techs to Obito, he used Fuuinjutsu Kyuuin, controlled Gedo Mazo, seems to have used Shinra Tensei as an Edo, and used Chibaku Tensei as the Juubi Jin on a scale many times superior to Nagato's use of it. Chibaku Tensei is pretty much the ultimate expression of Tendo's power of gravitation so the notion that he can't use such powers is frankly almost laughable. And as for not using Susano'o...why would becoming a Juubi Jinchuuruki prevent him from using that power? He could use it immediately prior and he could use Limbo both before and after (and CT) so what about that power should make it off limits in that form? He could use Susano'o when he didn't have eyes before, meaning that even rules that should apply to him don't. No, after becoming a Juubi Jin, Madara's entire offensive and defensive ability (except for a mild demonstration of his physical capabilities in flight) was Gedou Dama before it was reduced to one. Then he switched mostly to just using random mixed elemental ninjutsu (not even Mokuton though) and Limbo while also using some physical capability and his last Gedou Dama a bit. Only once he got back his two Rinnegan did he bother using his powers in an efficient manner again.

But Madara's schtick is how he likes to test his opponents. Beyond any reason, even, based on the fact that he was laughing along and playing with Gai up until the point where Night Gai was used and he realized he may have let his guard down too much (although who knows if even he knows the limits of his mortality; one moment he was saying Gai might have killed him, a little while later that he is completely immortal and of course he might always have been able to resort to Izanagi). I think that's why Madara is so hard to rate. He uses his powers so haphazardly, with so little concern for ending a battle as quickly and efficiently as possible, and giving his opponents leeway to show off their strength to a basically insane degree that he comes off as one of the sloppiest fighters in the manga. Which he deserves for being such a dumb hodge podge of rehashed ability. (rehash of all Uchiha powers, only more, rehash of Nagato's powers only more, rehash of Mokuton, rehash of Juubi Jin powers after we have already seen those powers, some random elemental ninjutsu and....Limbo...which I personally think is boring). This is why Kishi was struggling with Madara and worried he had made him too strong and couldn't defeat him (how replacing him with someone who is supposed to be even stronger helps I don't know). But it actually makes me think that his real problem wasn't that Madara was too strong: it's that he was too diverse. If he actually fought like an Itachi, or Tobirama, or Minato in terms of efficiency with what he has, how could Kishi even portray that? It would be a never ending show of the same jutsus used in combinations that pretty much nobody could defense against, true, but would be endlessly boring  at the same time. 

Madara is a character whose performances I take with a grain of salt. I had trouble believing his blind performances, especially before taking the rest of Hasharima's power and sage mode and think at the least the latter with a grain of salt, and his sheer recklessly arrogant stupidity against Gai, Naruto, and Sasuke (up until gaining the double Rinnegan) also deserves some careful handling.


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## Deleted member 211714 (Jul 4, 2014)

Sorry... July 4th
And stop with the facepalm, pal. It's annoying and probably unhealthy.



Psp123789 said:


> First of all I was talking about how Naruto/Sasuke performed against Madara before he got both rinnegans so I do not know why the hell you are mentioning him when he hasn't shown really anything at all.



Doesn't Madara have both Rinnegan in this thread? 



> Second of all Why are you pitting Madara against Naruto or Sasuke individually when I never even stated they could beat him individually.



To let you realize the profuse disparity in power between them individually...
Together, they need that sealing technique to stand the slightest chance against Madara, and the duo would never win against this guy through conventional fighting.



> There's also the fact that by feats Naruto/Sasuke individually are > or equal to 1 eyed Juubidara and as a team are >>>>>shinju absorbed Madara.



Conjecture. We haven't seen a fragment of Madara's power due to PIS and arrogance, so neither statement is true in your assessment. 



> Also you're making bullshit assumptions now considering that he has never used ST so we wouldn't even know the scale of it and



You really need to sit down and listen.
Are you really suggesting that Madara can't use Chou Shinra Tensei on levels that far surpass what Nagato had shown?

With Juubi power, he managed to casually dish out multiple Chibaku Tensei, while a single orb would normally shorten Nagato's life. Additionally, Obito suggested that he could have used Six Paths, but he was barely able to control one of Madara's Rinnegan - despite having Juubi and Senju DNA under his control - and the man was also *portrayed to be completely unstoppable* with both eyes. He mastered the doujutsu on a higher level than both Nagato and Obito, which is why it isn't so unrealistic to believe he's able to use those techniques on massive scales. 

Think of Senpou: Chou Shinra Tensei with Juubi reserves and try to say that wouldn't obliterate a country without cracking a smile? 



> we don't even know what the results of that fight would have been since Madara got a hand stuck into him before they could even fight. Also Naruto and Sasuke have not even showed what they are fully capable of so I could use the same bullshit logic you're using to wank Madara.



We do know what the result of that fight would be, actually. Madara would have always been outed by Black Zetsu, as Naruto/Sasuke never stood a chance against him in the first place.

And there's a reason why that happened.



> Fact is that Madara before getting 2 rinnegans was not strong enough to beat Naruto and Sasuke and its debatable whether or not he can beat them with it. Stop wanking Madara.



The thing is, JJ Madara has never shown a fraction of his abilities and mainly fought with Limbo.
We have a good idea of what Naruto is able to dish out, though, and it's doubtful that Sasuke's Rinnegan can use Six Paths...unless his version is akin to Rinnegan x2? The eye seems to have its own ability/increased perception, and it seems like the thing ended up granting him PS that Madara already had before these powers. Madara doesn't need these asspull powers from Rikudou to get what he wants and fuck these scum sideways; he managed to gain everything himself and stole/manipulated others to reach his level in revival. Those two, on the other hand, met with a transmigrant legend in between life and death to have their powers literally bestowed unto them. If you ask me, there's a complete difference in the mindset and overall experience Madara had seen to get where he got.

There's also the fact that Mokuton will always be a natural advantage over Jins, unless he uses Sasuke's PS for protection from it. From there, JJ Madara that isn't blinded by plot-induced stupidity wipes them off the face of the map via Juubidama - unless you think Current Naruto can match Juubi with his power - and that assertion would be completely unreasonable at this point.

You're the one who is wanking, buddy. 



> Lol when did I ever say that Madara shouldn't be able to use the juubi as well as Obito did? You're still using he same bullshit logic.



You're the one who suggested Madara didn't know how to use Juubi like Obito, even though he sat atop it with the latter and shot country busters at SA. Not to mention the fact that he watched its power in action (firsthand) and also seems to have more general knowledge in nearly everything. Obito has never been a Jin before this point and managed to control Kyuubi for a lesser amount of time. 

What makes you think Madara, the superior combatant, can't use Juubi's power on the same level as Obito? Enlighten me, please. 

So read and comprehend the comments you make, before trying to ridicule my claims to only appear as a foolish troll...



> We do not even know if you can use sharingan techs like PS along with the powers of the juubi.



Please... Madara made casual use of Chibaku Tensei - a Rinnegan technique - so he should easily take advantage of his PS. You have to factor in that Obito was barely managing to handle Madara's Rinnegan, and he had to control/suppress Juubi on top of that. 

You're going to doubt Madara's prowess just because the weaker combatant in Obito couldn't accomplish it?

And it doesn't even matter, as I'm under the impression that we're talking about Rinnegan Madara in this case.



> Seems like you're still trying to prove that Madara can beat Naruto/Sasuke individually instead of judging how they would have done against him together. Do you even understand what I was trying to say?



I already gave you a mixture of reasons why he managed to only "hold his own" against their combination, if you even attempted to read my initial post like a normal person; he didn't get overwhelmed in any way, shape or form. 



> Prior to his death Madara was stronger than any individual not named Hagoromo or Kaguya. Madara's arrogance isn't the only reason he was getting whooped against the duo and Madara's fight against them proved it. How are you judging Kaguya's power when she ust appeared and isn't even using her real power right now?



I'm judging Kaguya by that fact that she's brought down by the same PIS that contaminates most villains. Perhaps she's just a one-trick pony and/or Obito V2?



> They are fighting kaguya who was stated to be on a whole other lvl than juudara and they received Hagoromo's yang and yin power. They are at least in the same tier.



Kaguya's chakra was stated to be on another level, considering she also absorbed Madara w/ Shinju. By portrayal, she might be stronger than Madara through Hagoromo's words, but feats and logic suggest that she's weaker than both of them.

And there's no indication of the chakra portions Naruto/Sasuke had received. 
For all we know, they could have been given the smallest fragments; they were given pieces that weren't described in quantity.


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## ARGUS (Jul 4, 2014)

Double Rinnegan Juudara > Rinnegan Sasuke > Double rinnegan nonjin madara


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## Kyu (Jul 5, 2014)

Full Rinnegan JJ Madara > Sharrinnegan Sasuke >~ One-eyed JJ Madara

Sasuke needs Naruto to beat the former.


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## SubtleObscurantist (Jul 5, 2014)

You can't say you are using "feats" and then turn around say Kaguya is stronger base on statements. 

In any case, Kaguya is a) not trying to kill them (Madara was more than happy to) but take their chakra, b) possibly is hesitating because of emotion, c) only ever got disadvantaged for even a moment with Naruto's lame distraction that probably wouldn't have worked on Madara (unless he had the know how to make a bunch of naked Hasharimas), d) are going to need help from outsiders, and e) already would have lost when Kaguya first used her space/time ninjutsu and may well have lost again when she trapped them in ice had she bothered to attack then. The two of them together aren't anywhere near to her equal.


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## Bonly (Jul 5, 2014)

As of now I'd say it could go either way though this depends on if Sasuke is gonna show anything else new with his Rinnegan as well as if he's gonna be able to use any of the ordinary Rinnegan jutsu which we're likely to find out in the next few months.


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Jul 5, 2014)

TensaXZangetsu said:


> IMO I think Madara wins
> 
> But I wonder how well Sasuke would do against him if he had all the rinnegan
> 
> ...



The Rinnegan is too much for Sasuke.

Sasuke cannot use any Ninjutsu because of the Preta Path, the Rinnegan's lesser powers like Susanoo. 
Sasuke's CQC is nulled because of powers like Shinra Tensei and Limbo. 

Madara could quite literally steamroll. We saw the clear difference when Madara had both his eyes.

This is assuming Sasuke's Rinnegan won't have the prior forms' powers. It looks that way at the moment considering Madara awakened Sasuke's eye before using Mugen Tsukuyomi.


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## T-Bag (Jul 6, 2014)

Juubi jinchuriki or not dual rinnegan madara solos ez


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## IchLiebe (Jul 6, 2014)

IF Sasuke'es S/t didn't have a cooldown it could go either way but Madara is far superior due to Rinne techs like CT, ST, and preta path.


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## StickaStick (Jul 6, 2014)

IchLiebe said:


> IF Sasuke'es S/t didn't have a cooldown it could go either way but Madara is far superior due to Rinne techs like CT, ST, and preta path.



Assuming he's granted those feats which he hasn't shown; I was actually working under the assumption he wasn't. If Mads  gets what Nagato's shown Sasuke gets low- to no-diff'd.


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Jul 6, 2014)

The Format said:


> Assuming he's granted those feats which he hasn't shown; I was actually working under the assumption he wasn't. If Mads  gets what Nagato's shown Sasuke gets low- to no-diff'd.



Madara taught Obito how to use the jutsu that Nagato used. Going by his use of CT, he obviously was well beyond Nagato. That's supported by Obito's hype. 

Sasuke's eye is an interesting one. It would imply that Madara should get Sasuke's abilities upon using the third Rinnegan. 

The implications drastically change if we assume that Sasuke's power is actually a premature/lesser version of Kayuga's.


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## Raiken (Jul 6, 2014)

So we're talking:
EMS/Tomoe Rinnegan+Hagoromo's Yin Seal Sasuke
VS
Sage Mode+Dual Rinnegan Madara

I think if Sasuke was only revived and given Hashirama's DNA, and did not interact with the Rikudou Sennin in any way. Madara would  "clearly" take this: However, Hagaromo's intervention clearly made a large difference on top of his "expected" power up from what Kabuto did.

However feat wise, Madara still has a much better portrayal of powers. But Sasuke's feats against the Chibaku Tensei are pretty note-worthy, however his PS is Bijuu Sized, compared to Madara's 100% Kyuubi sized PS; and that was without SM.

Sasuke probably takes this, but not by a lot:
Sasuke Wins: High Difficulty.


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## Ashi (Jul 6, 2014)

Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> Madara taught Obito how to use the jutsu that Nagato used. Going by his use of CT, he obviously was well beyond Nagato. That's supported by Obito's hype.
> 
> Sasuke's eye is an interesting one. It would imply that Madara should get Sasuke's abilities upon using the third Rinnegan.
> 
> The implications drastically change if we assume that Sasuke's power is actually a premature/lesser version of Kayuga's.



Madara only taught him how to revive himself and summon the statue

I wonder why people don't consider the fact that doujutsu doesn't grant different abilities based on users


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## IchLiebe (Jul 6, 2014)

The Format said:


> Assuming he's granted those feats which he hasn't shown; I was actually working under the assumption he wasn't. If Mads  gets what Nagato's shown Sasuke gets low- to no-diff'd.



ST has never been shown to be used by Madara but Limbo did use it to send all tailed beast flying. Hell I remember people stating that Madara was on a whole other level because he was able to place the ST expansion wherever he wanted and not just centered around him.

His CT was shown to be absolutely amazing, He used Preta consistently. THe only things he hasn't shown are Human, Naraka, Asura, and the outer path. He has shown to be capable of summoning Gedo Mazo(animal), to use Preta path, and to use Deva's powers.


Although Nagato had better fluidity with the paths it seems to me that Madara has far greater control and mastery of the Rinnegan.


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## αce (Jul 6, 2014)

> Assuming he's granted those feats which he hasn't shown; I was actually  working under the assumption he wasn't. If Mads  gets what Nagato's  shown Sasuke gets low- to no-diff'd.



If he can use CT, It's a safe assumption that he can use CST and ST.


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## Ashi (Jul 6, 2014)

αce said:


> If he can use CT, It's a safe assumption that he can use CST and ST.



No it's not


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## Csdabest (Jul 6, 2014)

Madara still gets Raped. Sasuke shown to outmanuver him quite easily because of his space time jutsu. And Sasuke has better abilities if you ask me to break a shinobi down and destroy them. Its like Giving Minato a whole bunch of One Hit kill techniques and hax abilities. 

Thats basically what Sasuke is. If Madara had S/T capabilities of his own Id give him the fight. But Sasuke with Rinnegan, S/T and Is a Masterful EMS user. Its hard to argue for Madara in this fight


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## StickaStick (Jul 7, 2014)

Csdabest said:


> Madara still gets Raped. Sasuke shown to outmanuver him quite easily because of his space time jutsu. And Sasuke has better abilities if you ask me to break a shinobi down and destroy them. Its like Giving Minato a whole bunch of One Hit kill techniques and hax abilities.
> 
> Thats basically what Sasuke is. If Madara had S/T capabilities of his own Id give him the fight. But Sasuke with Rinnegan, S/T and Is a Masterful EMS user. Its hard to argue for Madara in this fight


Sasuke needed Naruto's help and that was before Juubimads obtained the 2nd Rinnegan.


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## Jagger (Jul 7, 2014)

King Itachi said:


> Without plot-induced stupidity, Madara w/ Rinnegan x2 and no Juubi would wreck Current Sasuke.
> He toyed around that entire fight and should have been Hagoromo's equal, but his arrogance set him back and resulted in seas of Naruto/Sasuke fan jizz on this forum.
> 
> If Madara's prowess with Rinnegan is scaled to Nagato, he should be infinitely more powerful; it appears that he mastered Six Paths on another level.


How can a Juubi-less Madara become nore powerful than Hagoromo himself when it has been perfectly clear that you need certain ingredients to reach such height in the scale of popower, one of them being the Juubi's power?


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## αce (Jul 7, 2014)

> No it's not



Yes it is. Deva path was the only path with the ability to use CT and each Pain path has a specific set of powers. CT was simply a technique that revolved around Deva's abilities to manipulate gravity. If you honestly don't think that someone who can use CT on the scale that Madara did can't use a lower Deva path ability like ST, I'm not sure what to say to you.






As for this thread,  a 2 eyed rinnegan Madara _without _the Juubi abilities would still murder Sasuke. 4 limbo clones against someone who can't use kage bunshins is already lethal. Sasuke's ninjutsu is also completely pointless because of preta path. 


Dealing with CT's of that level while trying to fend off 4 limbo clones + the real Madara is not believable in the slightest. Naruto dealt with the clones in the manga and the only reason Sasuke was able to survive was because he had to only worry about the CT's since Madara was occupied with infinite tsukiyomi. If all of Madara's resources are on Sasuke he dies within 5 minutes.


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## Raiken (Jul 7, 2014)

Any version of JJ Madara defeats Sasuke.

However I think:
Dual Rinnegan+Sage Mode Madara VS EMS/Tomoe-Rinnegan Sasuke+Hagaromo Yin Seal
Is a closer fight than:
Single Rinnegan+Juubi Jinchuuriki Madara VS EMS/Tomoe-Rinnegan Sasuke+Hagaromo Yin Seal

I think the first fight I mentioned is actually a close fight, even though we never seen that version of Madara, we can make a good guess on how strong he would have been. Sasuke will probably only just takes it in the end.
However Sasuke, in my opinion, is pretty outmatched by even the weakest version of JJ Madara we've seen.

JJ Madara: 1 Tomoe-Rinnegan + 2 Rinnegan > JJ Madara: 2 Rinnegan > JJ Madara: 1 Rinnegan "W/ Shinju Absorbed" > JJ Madara: 1 Rinnegan > EMS/Tomoe-Rinnegan+Hagaromo's Yin Seal Sasuke > 2 Rinnegan+Sage Mode Madara > 1 Rinnegan+Sage Mode Madara


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## IchLiebe (Jul 7, 2014)

TensaXZangetsu said:


> No it's not



Yea it is.

Deva offers multiple powers just like other paths offer more than 1 thing by themself. Deva is about Gravity. Push and Pull, and CT CST ST and BT fall under those guidlines. Your being rather ridiculous if you can't accept that.

Asura- What does it offer, Multiple limbs, mechanical body, missiles, and lasers.

Human- Can seal, interrogate

Animal- Multiple summonings, not just one.



Limbo alone proves that Madara had greater mastery than Nagato.


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## Rocky (Jul 7, 2014)

αce said:


> As for this thread,  a 2 eyed rinnegan Madara _without _the Juubi abilities would still murder Sasuke.



Sasuke would speed blitz that Madara before his Limbo clones could do anything.


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## Ashi (Jul 7, 2014)

αce said:


> Yes it is. Deva path was the only path with the ability to use CT and each Pain path has a specific set of powers. CT was simply a technique that revolved around Deva's abilities to manipulate gravity. If you honestly don't think that someone who can use CT on the scale that Madara did can't use a lower Deva path ability like ST, I'm not sure what to say to you.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





IchLiebe said:


> Yea it is.
> 
> Deva offers multiple powers just like other paths offer more than 1 thing by themself. Deva is about Gravity. Push and Pull, and CT CST ST and BT fall under those guidlines. Your being rather ridiculous if you can't accept that.
> 
> ...




From what we've seen only Nagato used all Six Paths   and Deva patth isn't gravity it's magnetism but that's beside the point

Being able to use one type of jutsu doesn't guarantee you the rest


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## SubtleObscurantist (Jul 7, 2014)

Seems like Madara can use Shinra Tensei to me.


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## Jak N Blak (Jul 7, 2014)

A teleporting Perfect Susanoo is too terrifying.


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## T-Bag (Jul 7, 2014)

TensaXZangetsu said:


> No it's not


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## Ashi (Jul 7, 2014)

SubtleObscurantist said:


> Seems like Madara can use Shinra Tensei to me.



That's not  Shinra Tensei, our man just likes to kick sh*t

Besides he didn't have the rinnegan activated and all of his entrances are greeted via dustplosion


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## Jagger (Jul 7, 2014)

SubtleObscurantist said:


> Seems like Madara can use Shinra Tensei to me.


If anything, that looks like Kishi's way of saying this new enemy is in a whole new level while compared to the others, just a dramatic effect.

However, I don't understand why would people doubt Madara being capable of using Shinra Tensei when he has unlocked techniques not even Rinnegan users such as Nagato could use.


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## IchLiebe (Jul 7, 2014)

^Agreed


I would say that he doesn't have ST, but he's shown the capability. He uses BT to pull meteors down(correct me if Im wrong, youll need to provide evidence, and I refute that the meteors looked like the rock that Nagato was throwing at KCM Naruto). His Limbo CLONE(which doesn't have a special power other than being whatever they fuck it is) used it to blow all the bijuus away from him. Madara put Limbo in the center then Limbo use ST and thats exactly what happened.


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## Blu-ray (Jul 7, 2014)

Cryorex said:


> Any version of JJ Madara defeats Sasuke.
> 
> However I think:
> Dual Rinnegan+Sage Mode Madara VS EMS/Tomoe-Rinnegan Sasuke+Hagaromo Yin Seal
> ...



You're grasp off the difference in power between a non Juubi Madara and a Juubi Madara makes no sense, to the point you make it seem like the gap is negligible. Sasuke could effectively speedblitz Juubi Mads and any version of the alive one, no matter the amount of Rinnegan, cannot help but getting instantly bisected, decapitated, or impaled through the heart the second the fight begins. 

The weakest Juubi Madz we saw almost died to an attack from Guy that Sasuke can easily match with a mere Chidori Eiso, so the weakest form doesn't stand much of a chance either.



αce said:


> Yes it is. Deva path was the only path with the ability to use CT and each Pain path has a specific set of powers. CT was simply a technique that revolved around Deva's abilities to manipulate gravity. If you honestly don't think that someone who can use CT on the scale that Madara did can't use a lower Deva path ability like ST, I'm not sure what to say to you.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You're forgetting a much stronger version got chopped in half and impaled through the heart without so much as reacting to either. This alive Madara won't even have time to take a breath before he's dead, much less rely on Limbo that Sasuke can tank without Susano'o, or CT which would be much weaker and less numerous than his JJ version.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Jul 7, 2014)

IchLiebe said:


> ^Agreed
> 
> 
> I would say that he doesn't have ST, but he's shown the capability. He uses BT to pull meteors down(correct me if Im wrong, youll need to provide evidence, and I refute that the meteors looked like the rock that Nagato was throwing at KCM Naruto). His Limbo CLONE(which doesn't have a special power other than being whatever they fuck it is) used it to blow all the bijuus away from him. Madara put Limbo in the center then Limbo use ST and thats exactly what happened.


Actually, the Meteor attack was called Tengai Shinsen or 'Heaven Concealed'.


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## Jagger (Jul 7, 2014)

I'm pretty sure it was only called that by the producers of Naruto games, Kishimoto never made any comment about the specific name of the technique.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Jul 7, 2014)

Well Bansho Ten'in never required three seals so it is a different technique.


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## IchLiebe (Jul 8, 2014)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Actually, the Meteor attack was called Tengai Shinsen or 'Heaven Concealed'.



YEa I have never heard that.


I could be wrong like I said, maybe so if he did use 3 seals to use it.


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## SubtleObscurantist (Jul 8, 2014)

IchLiebe said:


> Madara put Limbo in the center then Limbo use ST and thats exactly what happened.



I don't think so, because the Bijuus weren't all hit at the same time and ST can't be used in rapid succession. I think the Limbo clone just Shunshin'd around and hit them. He would have Hasharima's strength amped up by sage mode and his rather great speed (certainly comparable to RnY Ei's ordinary Shunshin) amped up by sage mode also. And his Limbo clones haven't demonstrated the ability to use other kind of Ninjutsu. 


TensaXZangetsu said:


> That's not  Shinra Tensei, our man just likes to kick sh*t
> 
> Besides he didn't have the rinnegan activated and all of his entrances are greeted via dustplosion



You know that isn't Shinra Tensei, despite looking exactly like it, how, again? It looked just like when Nagato used it against Kirabi, Naruto, and Itachi except smaller. 

You know he didn't have the Rinnegan active at that moment, how, again?

Notice that each of those other instances, there is an explosion of dust in all directions. Two of those instances were him landing when he was flying at high speed. (How exactly he was flying before he became the Juubi's Jin I have no idea...perhaps he combined Tendo's levitation powers with Shurado's rocket powers). The other one appears to be either a release of battle ki or Shinra Tensei. Incidentally, if those meteors were in fact dragged down, rather than summoned, then that's the same power as Bansho Tenin on a much larger scale.

But if you wanted to analogize those other instances to that one, then it would be a lot better for you if the coffin had just exploded altogether.


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Jul 8, 2014)

TensaXZangetsu said:


> Madara only taught him how to revive himself and summon the statue



Madara explicitly said that he'd teach him the Six Path jutsu.



> I wonder why people don't consider the fact that doujutsu doesn't grant different abilities based on users



That is because this is a nonsensical "fact" with no backing.


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## Ashi (Jul 8, 2014)

SubtleObscurantist said:


> I don't think so, because the Bijuus weren't all hit at the same time and ST can't be used in rapid succession. I think the Limbo clone just Shunshin'd around and hit them. He would have Hasharima's strength amped up by sage mode and his rather great speed (certainly comparable to RnY Ei's ordinary Shunshin) amped up by sage mode also. And his Limbo clones haven't demonstrated the ability to use other kind of Ninjutsu.
> 
> 
> You know that isn't Shinra Tensei, despite looking exactly like it, how, again? It looked just like when Nagato used it against Kirabi, Naruto, and Itachi except smaller.
> ...





Because when he exited the coffin he didn't have rinnegan and it'd be clearly stated by Kishimoto at one point  and can I plase have a scan of Madara flying prior to being the Ten Tails Jinchurikki?

Anyway I hate these arguments because we're all just experts unless Kishimoto contradicted us and even then there's always the "PIS/CIS" that always works so wonderfully with Madara

It's

Just

Ack...


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