# BET Thread Kidd vs Zoro



## Beast (Nov 28, 2020)

This is a bet thread for the insensible Zoro wank, what way to kill it then to embarrass all the tards at once.

the bet is quite simple, I’m claiming that at the END of Wano, when the battles are said and done, There will be no denying that Kidd is stronger then Zoro. Simple.

I will bet My whole account in exchange for 10 or more Zorotards, to bet their Avi and the little member tag under the user name (Usually well known member). Need at least 10 people or my account is no longer on the line.

so, sign up if you think the grandmaster has a chance of being stronger then Kidd at the end of Wano.
registering will be Open till end of Wano, however you can not take back your vote, once it’s been made. Anyone else that wants to bet AGAINST Zoro, can make their own bet, I’ll just put it at the bottom if I remember/ see it.
NO SPAM posts in this thread.

just vote saying you’re either WITH or AGAINST Zoro.

@Kinjin if you could help me with this that would be great, make it a sticky thread or anything, even a poll where you can only vote once and can’t take it back.

1. @Kylo Ren
2. @Stringer
3. @ice demon slayer
4. @MashDaddy
5. @Spiegel
6. @nimo77
7. @Jujubatman12
8. @Donquixote Doflamingo
9. @Sloan
10. @DragonSlayerOrnstein
11. @A Optimistic

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 2 | Funny 4 | Friendly 2 | Disagree 1


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## Kylo Ren (Nov 28, 2020)

The winner will be determine by poll? I'll sign up for it.

But to tell you the truth one Zoro tards is enough for you. GG this is easy win.

Reactions: Useful 1


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## Stringer (Nov 28, 2020)

Denial and character hate reaching new heights, it's a dumb bet. Might as well delete your account now.

*I'm with Zoro*

Reactions: Like 11 | Agree 1 | Funny 1 | Useful 1 | Optimistic 1 | Dislike 1


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## ice demon slayer (Nov 28, 2020)

Oda will wank Zoro like  he never did before. . I feel bad lol

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 2 | Useful 1


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## Kinjin (Nov 28, 2020)

Beast said:


> @Kinjin if you could help me with this that would be great, make it a sticky thread or anything, even a poll where you can only vote once and can’t take it back.


A sticky? Just keep bumping it if you want that it stays on the first page. We usually don't sticky these kind of threads.

I added a poll.

Reactions: Like 3


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## Spiegel (Nov 28, 2020)

No denying? So if there's even a chance of Zoro being able to defeat Kidd then you lose?

Reactions: Like 2


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## Beast (Nov 28, 2020)

Kinjin said:


> A sticky? Just keep bumping it if you want that it stays on the first page. We usually don't sticky these kind of threads.
> 
> I added a poll.


It’s so I won’t forget but doesn’t really matter, end of Wano... I’ll make sure to come back and check this thread.
and thanks for the poll.

@Stringer
You can vote on the poll now.

no need to make posts, just the vote on the poll is enough.

@Spiegel 
It has to be clear cut either way, this is gonna be the end of Wano, When Kaidou falls, everyone will show what they have, so I don’t think there will be a lot of room for interpretation, feats should be clear as day.

Reactions: Like 3 | Informative 1 | Optimistic 1


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## Lawliet (Nov 28, 2020)

Like a frog in a well

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1 | GODA 1


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## TrolonoaZoro (Nov 28, 2020)

Betting against Zoro in Wano is comically shortsighted. Specially when the person is not Luffy. When has there been a cotemporary in this manga that you can say is without a doubt stronger than Zoro? 
If you don't establish measuring stick this will turn into a semantics conversations.  
"Feats will be obvious" when you're obviously bias against Zoro and are betting against "wankers" or people who you consider to be bias is not the way to go, lmao.

Reactions: Like 7 | Agree 2 | GODA 1


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## Kylo Ren (Nov 28, 2020)

Beast said:


> It’s so I won’t forget but doesn’t really matter, end of Wano... I’ll make sure to come back and check this thread.
> and thanks for the poll.
> 
> @Stringer
> ...


Then voting now is moot. Since if ever Kidd shown feat above Zoro then I truthfully say its Kidd but I already vote Zoro now.


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## Beast (Nov 28, 2020)

Kylo Ren said:


> Then voting now is moot. Since if ever Kidd shown feat above Zoro then I truthfully say its Kidd but I already vote Zoro now.


Not really sure what you’re trying to say but you’ve made your vote and can’t go back, wait and pray bruh.

@Dunno cmon now... step into the light and vote.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Nov 28, 2020)

I don't like bets but this hardly qualifies as one. 

Zoro easy win. If it was not for the fact Kidd has a good matchup vs zoro with his magnetic powers i would say zoro mid diffs his ass.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1 | Winner 1 | Friendly 1 | Dislike 1


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## Kylo Ren (Nov 28, 2020)

Beast said:


> Not really sure what you’re trying to say but you’ve made your vote and can’t go back, wait and pray bruh.
> 
> @Dunno cmon now... step into the light and vote.


Nvm, fuck. IM BEING STUPID.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Nov 28, 2020)

You don't need to bet your account though bro its not that serious. I would rather not have a good posters account deleted. Especially a fellow Gul fan. 

Just wear a Zoro avatar for a month or something.

Reactions: Agree 4 | Funny 3


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## Kylo Ren (Nov 28, 2020)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> You don't need to bet your account though bro its not that serious. I would rather not have a good posters account deleted. Especially a fellow Gul fan.
> 
> Just wear a Zoro avatar for a month or something.


Just Change name to Zorotards will do

Reactions: Funny 4 | Creative 1


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## January (Nov 28, 2020)

Voted for fun.

Not willing to change my account/name.

I'm okay with avatar change for a week.


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## Kylo Ren (Nov 28, 2020)

January said:


> Voted for fun.
> 
> Not willing to change my account/name.
> 
> I'm okay with avatar change for a week.


Good luck.

Reactions: Friendly 1


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## Sloan (Nov 28, 2020)

What do you mean by bet your whole account?  Like as in deleting it?  That’s not satisfactory.

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Sloan (Nov 28, 2020)

Kinjin said:


> A sticky? Just keep bumping it if you want that it stays on the first page. We usually don't sticky these kind of threads.
> 
> I added a poll.


Don’t telegram threads get deleted before next spoilers?  Gonna have to move it to OL?


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## January (Nov 28, 2020)

Kylo Ren said:


> Good luck.


May Goda be with you!!

Reactions: Funny 1 | GODA 1


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## Beast (Nov 28, 2020)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> I don't like bets but this hardly qualifies as one.
> 
> Zoro easy win. If it was not for the fact Kidd has a good matchup vs zoro with his magnetic powers i would say zoro mid diffs his ass.


Excuses 




Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> You don't need to bet your account though bro its not that serious. I would rather not have a good posters account deleted. Especially a fellow Gul fan.
> 
> Just wear a Zoro avatar for a month or something.


Gotta spice it up a little, Well the winner will decided what they want to do, if Zoro fans win then you guys could come together to delete/ change user/ anything tbh, I will give you the password for the account it, if you so wish but I’m 99% confident Zoro will not be stronger then Kidd.
@Sloan
It’s okay if youre not a Zoro fan, you don’t need to bet. If you have the confidence in Zoro, satisfaction will come with the W.


I’m sure there was way more Zorotards but seems like the confidence and belief was a fraud, all talk and no action.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Nov 28, 2020)

Beast said:


> Excuses
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Confidence i like it. 

If you don't have confidence and pride you are not worthy of Zoros blade.

Reactions: GODA 1


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## Beast (Nov 28, 2020)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Confidence i like it.
> 
> If you don't have confidence and pride you are not worthy of Zoros blade.


SNAAATCH!

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Sloan (Nov 28, 2020)

Beast said:


> Gotta spice it up a little, Well the winner will decided what they want to do, if Zoro fans win then you guys could come together to delete/ change user/ anything tbh, I will give you the password for the account it, if you so wish but I’m 99% confident Zoro will not be stronger then Kidd.
> @Sloan
> It’s okay if youre not a Zoro fan, you don’t need to bet. If you have the confidence in Zoro, satisfaction will come with the W.
> 
> ...


Naw but I like gambling. 

How long do I gotta change my Avi and member Tag for if you win


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## TheWiggian (Nov 28, 2020)

Beast said:


> Excuses
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Account sharing could get everyone  involved in trouble, including the owner of the forum (even though I don't care about that).

Better solution would be you either stay true to your word and do it yourself or you get along without overreacting to obvious bait in most cases when some users state that the Grandmaster stomps Kid (which he does, you know it deep down your heart   ) and last but not least: "convert to the Roronoa religion and save up to 90% on your first order of 100% cotton merch. Your fellow Grandmaster bros will welcome you with open arms


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## Lawliet (Nov 28, 2020)

Beast said:


> I’m sure there was way more Zorotards but seems like the confidence and belief was a fraud, all talk and no action.


Mihawk and WB didn't need to prove to Zoro and Ace they were leagues above them.

We don't really need to prove to you Zoro > Kid. You just have to either accept it or deny it. 

You're a denier. But you shall believe soon enough.

Reactions: Like 4


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## Beast (Nov 28, 2020)

Sloan said:


> Naw but I like gambling.
> 
> How long do I gotta change my Avi and member Tag for if you win


Perm Avi, same way if I was to have account deleted ain’t no coming back.
Let’s see if you’re a gambling man or not.

Details could be renegotiated at the end but the main bet is for my account (do anything with it) and Avi change (length of time could be negotiable, depends on how I feel or what they have to offer).

@TheWiggian
Lol, I’m a man of my word bruh, once the arc is done, the people involved in the bet, get to decided what they do with my account, if I lose... I’m not really too bothered about forum rules and whatnot lol.
I’m here for a good time not a long time!


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## Lawliet (Nov 28, 2020)

Beast is on double damage control shift. 

Drop it. You can't stop what's coming

Reactions: Like 2


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## Sloan (Nov 28, 2020)

Beast said:


> Perm Avi, same way if I was to have account deleted ain’t no coming back.
> Let’s see if you’re a gambling man or not.
> 
> Details could be renegotiated at the end but the main bet is for my account (do anything with it) and Avi change (length of time could be negotiable, depends on how I feel or what they have to off).


Ya but you are betting 10 people.   10 people can’t all have the same prize of doing what they want with your account.

Plus I don’t dislike you or anyone really so I don’t care to delete your acc.

Take an L where you have to live with it and keep posting in shame :x

Unless you’re looking to just quit the Forums and this your way out


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## Deleted member 58423 (Nov 28, 2020)

Beast said:


> I will bet My whole account


why?!

you're betting on something that can't even be measured

Reactions: Agree 3


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## Deleted member 58423 (Nov 28, 2020)

Beast said:


> if I was to have account deleted


so you hate OL?

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Beast (Nov 28, 2020)

Sloan said:


> Ya but you are betting 10 people.   10 people can’t all have the same prize of doing what they want with your account.
> 
> Plus I don’t dislike you or anyone really so I don’t care to delete your acc.
> 
> ...


They decided Together, same way they are betting together. I’ve got way more to lose.

you don’t like me? Well, duck you bruh.... I don’t like your face.

And that’s okay, if that’s what you guys decided. Change my username, Avi, age, gender... whatever you want.

A bit of both, shits been a bit boring plus if I win, makes more sense to stay, if I lose... well fuck Odas shitty writing.
@MashDaddy 
Bruh, you’re friends are stuttering.


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## Deleted member 58423 (Nov 28, 2020)

Beast said:


> feats should be clear as day.


in OP?

bruh...

Reactions: Funny 2 | Winner 3


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## Lawliet (Nov 28, 2020)

@Beast look how Oda portrays Kid. This is canon btw.

Reactions: Creative 1


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## Tenma (Nov 28, 2020)

girafarig said:


> in OP?
> 
> bruh...


this

ain't nobody gonna agree they lost this

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 3


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## January (Nov 28, 2020)

Tenma said:


> ain't nobody gonna agree they lost this


Why do you think I voted in the poll?


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## Deleted member 58423 (Nov 28, 2020)

Beast said:


> at the END of Wano


and how on earth are you going to keep this thread alive for...idk how many years?

and for all we know, another forum 'update' might screw all our cute little polls...

i'm very fond of you, beasty, but this is sheer madness. i hope this whole my account vs your avys thing won't go through


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## Lawliet (Nov 28, 2020)

girafarig said:


> and how on earth are you going to keep this thread alive for...idk how many years?
> 
> and for all we know, another forum 'update' might screw all or cute little polls...
> 
> i'm very fond of you, beasty, but this is sheer madness. i hope this whole my account vs your avys thing won't go through


He wants to quit the forum so bad, otherwise why choose an obvious bet? 

The Grand Master will make his wish come true

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 1


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## Deleted member 58423 (Nov 28, 2020)

MashDaddy said:


> He wants to quit the forum so bad, otherwise why choose an obvious bet?




i don't want him to quit, though

which is why i don't like this thread one bit

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Lawliet (Nov 28, 2020)

girafarig said:


> i don't want him to quit, though
> 
> which is why i don't like this thread one bit


He wants to make his flashy exit against the Grand Master, he's an honorable warrior. The Grand Master will grant him his defeat

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Deleted member 58423 (Nov 28, 2020)

MashDaddy said:


> He wants to make his flashy exit against the Grand Master, he's an honorable warrior. The Grand Master will grant him his defeat


dude i don't give a shit about your boring ass yawnmaster, i don't want masterbeast to lose his account over something stupid. over anything, actually


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## Great Potato (Nov 28, 2020)

Well, Kid's power seems a bit situational since it will be somewhat dependent on resources in the environment, he's doing a good deal of prep-work right now gather material to buff himself up against Kaido. If Apoo were to have taken that hit with what Kid is packing right now then I doubt he would have gotten back up again this arc. 

I'd favor Kid to be stronger at full gear with a lot of scrap-metal available, but if you were to catch him in an area like Little Garden where there's not really any metal then I would imagine him being less dangerous than Zoro. I'm hoping by the end of things that Kid develops his AoE so that he can just lift his hand and collect all of the metal on the island like Fujitora with the rubble.

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 2


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## Lawliet (Nov 28, 2020)

girafarig said:


> dude i don't give a shit about your boring ass yawnmaster, i don't want masterbeast to lose his account over something stupid. over anything, actually


Youre welcome to join him against the boring ass yawnmaster. You two will be reunited

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Deleted member 58423 (Nov 28, 2020)

@Kinjin 

delete this thread or something. the OP is obviously having a bad trip, nobody needs to see this

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Kinjin (Nov 28, 2020)

girafarig said:


> @Kinjin
> 
> delete this thread or something. the OP is obviously having a bad trip, nobody needs to see this


Don't worry, I'd never let Beast (or any OLer for that matter) delete his account over a bet.

Reactions: Like 1 | Friendly 3


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## Beast (Nov 28, 2020)

If the feats are not as clear, we can always leave it to a thread at the end and a poll.

You take risk and only then will you prosper.

we have 10 believers on Zoros side (you can still Join the bet), so if they all agree with my rules, the game is on!
I Or anyone can bump this with any weekly Zoro/ Kidd hype in the chapter. Don’t worry, i won’t forget at the end of Wano... I hope not.

*BET/ RULES

The bet is for who will come out stronger overall at the end of the arc.*
My account on the line, all bets FOR Zoro will have to come to a decision on what to do with my account, be it delete my account, change avi’s and etc.
Those who Bet FOR Zoro will have to put their Avi and member Tag (the thing under your UN), there is no time limit and changes CAN be PERMANENT if the winner so wishes, Again it will always comes to the winner on how hard They punish the opponent/s but what is being bet can not be changed, If I win, I can not make a change on your Siggy or Username for example as that’s not part of the bet. There is no limit on what my punishment can be because... well, my whole account is on the line lol.

*if there is a disagreement on the level of the character... I choose Kinjin and Only Kinjin to make the finally with HIS interpretation of their feats up till that point,* is that fair?
or we can get all three active mods in the OP to make that vote. No debates. @Soca @Kinjin @Charlotte D. Kurisu

@Donquixote Doflamingo
@Sloan
@MashDaddy
@Stringer
@Jujubatman12
@DragonSlayerOrnstein
@Kylo Ren
@nimo77
@ice demon slayer
@Spiegel


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## Asaya7 (Nov 28, 2020)

Beast said:


> The bet is for who will come out stronger overall at the end of the arc.


how will that be decided though?

Reactions: Agree 3


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## TheWiggian (Nov 28, 2020)

Beast said:


> @TheWiggian
> Lol, I’m a man of my word bruh, once the arc is done, the people involved in the bet, get to decided what they do with my account, if I lose... I’m not really too bothered about forum rules and whatnot lol.
> I’m here for a good time not a long time!



Forum rules don't cover the violations you'd do with such a move. But have it your way or as i said save up 90% on your next order of 100% cotton merch when converting to Grandmasterism. Enter discount code "Wiggian@grandmasterism" for another 10€/$ price drop on top of the 90%.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Beast (Nov 28, 2020)

Okay okay, since everyone but the owner of the account is crying about my account being deleted, I will add that as a NEW RULE.
*RULE UPDATE*

No deleting my account, you can still however choose multiple things to punish me with if I do lose the bet (Avi change/ Name change/ personal details (bar emails and passwords of course and so on and so forth, heck even my profile)).

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Deleted member 58423 (Nov 28, 2020)

Beast said:


> If the feats are not as clear, we can always leave it to a thread at the end and a poll.


how many kidd stans are there in OL? 2.5 if we're being generous?

how many are part of the legion?

you expect most of them to vote fairly/objectively?

Reactions: Winner 3


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## Beast (Nov 28, 2020)

girafarig said:


> how many kidd stans are there in OL? 2.5 if we're being generous?
> 
> how many are part of the legion?
> 
> you expect most of them to vote fairly/objectively?


Shhhh Gira, I’m laying a trap and now, you’re fucking with it.

Reactions: Funny 1 | Informative 1


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## Deleted member 58423 (Nov 28, 2020)

Beast said:


> Shhhh Gira, I’m laying a trap and now, you’re fucking with it.


should've said so sooner

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Kinjin (Nov 28, 2020)

Beast said:


> if there is a disagreement on the level of the character... I choose Kinjin and Only Kinjin to make the finally with HIS interpretation of their feats up till that point, is that fair?
> or we can get all three active mods in the OP to make that vote. No debates. @Soca @Kinjin @Charlotte D. Kurisu


I appreciate the proposition, but I don't think everyone would be ok with me being the sole judge 
@Etherborn is the 3rd OL mod, not Kurisu btw.

We could throw in the former admin Jetstorm aka @Vandal Savage too. He used to mod this place a decade ago and still keeps up with OP.


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## Sloan (Nov 28, 2020)

Wait I didn’t say I would actually join the bet.

Like I said I don’t want to share the prize with 10 other ppl :c

Reactions: Funny 3


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## Lawliet (Nov 28, 2020)

What's their to judge. Most votes win, no?

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## Sloan (Nov 28, 2020)

girafarig said:


> how many kidd stans are there in OL? 2.5 if we're being generous?
> 
> how many are part of the legion?
> 
> you expect most of them to vote fairly/objectively?


RIP Beast~


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## neonlight (Nov 28, 2020)

Let him who is without sin cast the first stone <->​Let him who is without bias be the judge​

Reactions: GODA 1


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## T.D.A (Nov 28, 2020)

@Beast shooting yourself in the foot.


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## Beast (Nov 28, 2020)

Kinjin said:


> I appreciate the proposition, but I don't think everyone would be ok with me being the sole judge
> @Etherborn is the 3rd OL mod, not Kurisu btw.
> 
> We could throw in the former admin Jetstorm aka @Vandal Savage too. He used to mod this place a decade ago and still keeps up with OP.


Ether one hasn’t been too active but yeah, it’s up to the mods, it just needs to be a an odd number so we can get a winner matter what. 


Sloan said:


> Wait I didn’t say I would actually join the bet.
> 
> Like I said I don’t want to share the prize with 10 other ppl :c


I thought you were a gambler? 
I’ll take you off then.


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## Mariko (Nov 28, 2020)

Oda:

1st OP's rule: never, NEVER, expect any tiers/levels clear and definitive hierarchy between important chars. 

2nd rule: never, NEVER, forget the 1st rule.

3rd rule: Lol non-SHs supernovas -especially Kid.

Reactions: Agree 2 | Funny 1 | Winner 4


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## January (Nov 28, 2020)

Relevant

Reactions: Friendly 2


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## Sloan (Nov 28, 2020)

Beast said:


> I thought you were a gambler?
> I’ll take you off then.


I am but the prize is horrendous imo.


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## T.D.A (Nov 28, 2020)

January said:


> Relevant



Kidd's importance got given to Law

Reactions: Funny 2 | Winner 2


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## Sloan (Nov 28, 2020)

If I win.  I write a 500 word apology speech/Zoro wank that you have to record through voice chat(Vocaroo) and post it.  

That way, I still get something if one of the other 9 winners already change your name/Avi etc.

If you win you can make me do the same but Aplogise/wank Kidd or change my Member Tag/Avi for X amount of time.


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## Draffut (Nov 28, 2020)

Eustuss will definitely win.  But the Zorotards will channel their inner-Trump and find any reason to deny it.

Reactions: Agree 3 | Funny 3 | Optimistic 3


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## Richard Lionheart (Nov 28, 2020)

I am sure Oda is going to portray Kid as rival to Luffy. If he does, there is no way Kid will be weaker than Zoro.

Reactions: Agree 3


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## MrPopo (Nov 28, 2020)

I'm gonna back kidd on this one


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## Kinjin (Nov 28, 2020)

I'm inclined to say Kid as I've the Auction House Trio above Zoro.

Since Zoro will most likely reopen Kaido's wound which was inflicted to him by Oden, Kid has to show a feat above that. Just have a hard time to imagine how that would look like. Maybe something à la Bullet, i.e. Awakening and transforming into some sort of Megazord.

Reactions: Like 2


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## T.D.A (Nov 28, 2020)

Cardboard Jewsuke said:


> Eustuss will definitely win.  But the Zorotards will channel their inner-Trump and find any reason to deny it.



On the contrary, @Beast about to lose the poll then ask for a recount


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## ho11ow (Nov 28, 2020)

So what happened to other people who voted for Kidd?


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## HaxHax (Nov 28, 2020)

It's not like the people taking this bet would admit they were wrong even if Luffy and Kid were to perform the finishing blow on Kaido side by side as equals.



Cardboard Jewsuke said:


> Eustuss will definitely win.  But the Zorotards will channel their inner-Trump and find any reason to deny it.

Reactions: Agree 2 | Funny 3


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## Draco Bolton (Nov 28, 2020)

Zoro will be stronger but he will job to Kid. He is a bad matchup for Zolo.

Reactions: Like 1


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## ice demon slayer (Nov 28, 2020)

Kinjin said:


> I'm inclined to say Kid as I've the Auction House Trio above Zoro.
> 
> Since Zoro will most likely reopen Kaido's wound which was inflicted to him by Oden, Kid has to show a feat above that. Just have a hard time to imagine how that would look like. Maybe something à la Bullet, i.e. Awakening and transforming into some sort of Megazord.


If Zoro shows an Oden level feat..really doubt that Kidd will show something above tht


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## Klue (Nov 28, 2020)

Kinjin said:


> I'm inclined to say Kid as I've the Auction House Trio above Zoro.
> 
> *Since Zoro will most likely reopen Kaido's wound* which was inflicted to him by Oden, Kid has to show a feat above that. Just have a hard time to imagine how that would look like. Maybe something à la Bullet, i.e. Awakening and transforming into some sort of Megazord.



Based on what ninja?

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 1


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## Pyriz (Nov 28, 2020)

Kid of course.

Reactions: Friendly 1


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## ho11ow (Nov 28, 2020)

Draco Bolton said:


> Zoro will be stronger but he will job to Kid. He is a bad matchup for Zolo.


Why he's bad matchup for Zoro?


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## ice demon slayer (Nov 28, 2020)

Zoro will definitely be stronger 
He will be the key to defeat Kaido alongside Luffy


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## Beast (Nov 28, 2020)

T.D.A said:


> Kidd's importance got given to Law


To think you live in England, where we speak English. Smh



ho11ow said:


> So what happened to other people who voted for Kidd?


Free ride for my fellow men, I would never put my own at risk over petty shit

Reactions: Friendly 2


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## Kinjin (Nov 28, 2020)

Klue said:


> Based on what ninja?


Zoro got Enma from Oden's daughter - the very sword which gave Kaido his scar - and wants to cut him.


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## Klue (Nov 28, 2020)

Kinjin said:


> Zoro got Enma from Oden's daughter, the very sword which gave Kaido his scar, and wants to cut him.



Zoro's Captain wants to defeat Kaido too. So, unfortunately for Zoro, he'll need to settle for cutting Kaido's #2.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


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## Beast (Nov 28, 2020)

Kinjin said:


> Zoro got Enma from Oden's daughter, the very sword which gave Kaido his scar, and wants to cut him.


One move isn’t going to change anything, Zoro is probably gonna be the one to open that wound properly, but that isn’t going to equate Luffy/ Kidd physically matching and even pushing back Kaidou, breaking through his scales like they learned to do.
Kidd is like a blank page, Oda can give him as much powers as he wants, Advanced haki, luffy stats, awakening, anything really.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Nov 28, 2020)

I voted Zoro, Kidd is trash


but I didnt sign up for the bet, I just voted

Reactions: Funny 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## T.D.A (Nov 28, 2020)

Beast said:


> To think you live in England, where we speak English. Smh
> 
> 
> Free ride for my fellow men, I would never put my own at risk over petty shit



Huh? You don't know what 'got given' means?


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## HaxHax (Nov 28, 2020)

T.D.A said:


> Huh? You don't know what 'got given' means?



The text says that Law turned out to be a more important character than originally envisioned. Not that Kid turned out less important. There's still more to come from Kid.


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## T.D.A (Nov 28, 2020)

HaxHax said:


> The text says that Law turned out to be a more important character than originally envisioned. Not that Kid turned out less important. There's still more to come from Kid.



He'll be important in this arc, but post-Wano doubt he's going to be any more important than the other SNs. He had potential to be Luffy's closest rival but that ship has probably sailed. Post-Wano, Luffy is going to be in a different sphere, both in terms of military power, crew and individual strength.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Nov 28, 2020)

its already impossible for Kidd to ever catch up to Law panel time wise


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## Beast (Nov 28, 2020)

T.D.A said:


> Huh? You don't know what 'got given' means?


That’s not what Oda said, he said He didn’t expect Law to be such a big character in the story and then he mentions that he expected most of the SNs to drop out of the story and only thought only Kidd was suppose be the only major SN, nothing was given to law that was taken away from Kidd.

Kidd already has a thing with Shanks lol, so he really isn’t just gonna disappear like he isn’t tied to most plot related character outside the SHs lol.
Kidd has his own base to start with and the only other CoC User out of the SNs, the only one with SN crew member like Luffy/ Zoro, there is a lot to work with after Wano, Kidd isn’t just gonna disappear. 
you’re trying to downplay Kidd but there is nothing to downplay no matter how you hard you try.

Reactions: Like 1 | Optimistic 1


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Nov 28, 2020)

imagine betting against Zoro after this chapter. 

Oda literally tossed Apoo under a bullet train just to hype up Zoro  

He literally had Zoro blitz one shot his ass like trash. 

You don't need to be a Zoro fanboy to see the writing on the wall. Oda is about to wank Zoro off harder then Kishimoto sucks off the Uchiha

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Oberyn Nymeros (Nov 28, 2020)

Bet son.

I'll bet this bitchass account as well that despite Zoro being Oda's golden child that Kid will be the stronger of the two.....don't IP ban me though, lol. I want to be able to make a new account if I'm wrong.

Reactions: Funny 5


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## Etherborn (Nov 28, 2020)

@Beast Are you emulating Kaido, starting a war to off your account or something? This is seriously a bad idea, and I say this both as a bro who has known you since our MF days and a mod who can smell a shitstorm a mile away. It feels like you’re trying to hurl your account off a cliff on Vormir, but instead of an Infinity Stone, you get bragging rights. Regardless of your chances of victory, I don’t recommend this. It seems pointless.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Friendly 2


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## Deleted member 58423 (Nov 28, 2020)

Beast said:


> Kidd is like a blank page, Oda can give him as much powers as he wants, Advanced haki, luffy stats, awakening, anything really.


oda can also refrain from giving kidd any notable powers

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 3 | Optimistic 1


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## Ruse (Nov 28, 2020)

Going with Kid of course

Reactions: Like 3


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## ice demon slayer (Nov 28, 2020)

The poll is one sided 

As expected

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Beast (Nov 28, 2020)

Etherborn said:


> @Beast Are you emulating Kaido, starting a war to off your account or something? This is seriously a bad idea, and I say this both as a bro who has known you since our MF days and a mod who can smell a shitstorm a mile away. It feels like you’re trying to hurl your account off a cliff on Vormir, but instead of an Infinity Stone, you get bragging rights. Regardless of your chances of victory, I don’t recommend this. It seems pointless.


Lool, we all gotta go out one way
God knows when Wano is gonna finish and I’m losing interest of OP by the day, no real risk for me tbh.


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## Ruse (Nov 28, 2020)

Can we settle on a official spelling for Kid btw?

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Kingdom Come (Nov 28, 2020)

Kidd is gonna get humiliated like the Kidd he is...

BLESS BE TO THE HEAVENLY DEMON OF THE ASURA

Reactions: Like 1


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## rext1 (Nov 28, 2020)

The clown-show fiction of Law and Kid being close to Luffy will be demolished after this arc.(Law's case should have been in the dustbin after Dressrosa)

*His only true peers in [Blocked Domain] are Zoro and Teach.*

Zoro and Luffy will take the spotlight this arc, and will be the only two Supernova to match Yonko strike for strike. Law will only be dangerous to BM/Kaido due to DF trickery(he is the ultimate glass-cannon) and Kid/Killer will jump into the fray to take cheapshots.

I predict Kid will get hits in but get folded early only to pop up later at an opportune time for the Alliance - like Law with Gamma Knife!!

Zoro on the other hand, will straight up tank Thunder Bagua's and reply with slashes that cut truer than Oden.

G4 Luffy and Base Zoro will be the muscle of the Kaido fight. Kid and Law are in a support role.

Reactions: Agree 2 | Funny 1 | Disagree 1


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## Shrike (Nov 28, 2020)

Account betting sucks. 

Just make a fun bet, nothing too srs. 

Also, feats being clear as day

Reactions: Funny 4


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## Typhon (Nov 28, 2020)

While I also would gladly vote against Zoro, it can't be denied that Kidd had prep time before he pulls off whatever feats he does and can't guarentee he can do that whenever


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## RossellaFiamingo (Nov 28, 2020)

Never make a poll if it involves Zoro. No one will vote objectively. Zoro has no claim at any point to be above Kidd. Kidd is Luffys Rival and direct comparison in the SN. Zoro will never be equal or stronger than Luffy's primary rivals, now or ever.

Reactions: Like 3 | Optimistic 5 | Tier Specialist 3


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## Cursemark (Nov 28, 2020)

January said:


> Relevant


This doesn't mean much at all.

Oda originally imagined Kid would important but what actually ended up happening is that Kid has had little to no relevance while Law is damn near a main character.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Cursemark (Nov 28, 2020)

RossellaFiamingo said:


> Never make a poll if it involves Zoro. No one will vote objectively. Zoro has no claim at any point to be above Kidd. Kidd is Luffys Rival and direct comparison in the SN. Zoro will never be equal or stronger than Luffy's primary rivals, now or ever.


All of the supernova were stated to be Luffy's rivals so if you're going to hold Kid to this standard do the same to them all. Kid is definitely not Luffy's Sasuke if that's what you're trying to imply. The guy has done absolutely nothing so far besides argue with Luffy a couple of times.

Law and Kid basically have the same standing as far as the story is concerned with the Luffy rivalry but Law was confirmed to be weaker than Luffy in Dressrosa and the same will happen with Kid this arc.


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## RossellaFiamingo (Nov 28, 2020)

Cursemark said:


> All of the supernova were stated to be Luffy's rivals so if you're going to hold Kid to this standard do the same to them all. Kid is definitely not Luffy's Sasuke if that's what you're trying to imply. The guy has done absolutely nothing so far besides argue with Luffy a couple of times.


You're making a false equivalence. Luffy's Main Rivals in the SN are Kidd and Law. Those guys are above everyone else in the SN including Zoro who is a subordinate. The fact he his a subordinate to Luffy automatically places him on a lower level powerwise compared to anyone who is Luffy's main opponent. 

Oda can make Kidd as strong as he wants because Kidd is a clean slate. Who tought that Apoo could hold off both Zoro and Hybrid Form Drake and only losing due to being distracted? And no, Kidd has done things. Kidd is the only SN who has actually tossled with 3 different Emperors and their crews. Oda clearly thinks Kidd is important to give him COC and directly contrast him to Luffy.

Reactions: Like 4 | Friendly 1


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## Cursemark (Nov 28, 2020)

RossellaFiamingo said:


> You're making a false equivalence. Luffy's Main Rivals in the SN are Kidd and Law. Those guys are above everyone else in the SN including Zoro who is a subordinate. The fact he his a subordinate to Luffy automatically places him on a lower level powerwise compared to anyone who is Luffy's main opponent.


All of this is speculation on your part. I'm not about to argue over opinions or speculation. I want tangible evidence. Zoro being a subordinate has meant nothing thus far. Law & Kid are not on Luffy's level. It's that simple.
Luffy has gotten a lot stronger while Kid was locked up as Kaido's bitch. Using your logic, if Kid was as strong as Luffy before how the heck would that still be the case?


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## T.D.A (Nov 28, 2020)

RossellaFiamingo said:


> The fact he his a subordinate to Luffy automatically places him on a lower level powerwise compared to anyone who is Luffy's main opponent.



List of top tiers who were subordinates: Whitebeard, Oden, Big Mom, Kaido, Rayleigh, Shiki, Shanks and so on.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Sieves (Nov 28, 2020)

Watch Law still end up doing more than both of them.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2 | Funny 1 | Optimistic 2


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## Dunno (Nov 28, 2020)

Beast said:


> I don’t think there will be a lot of room for interpretation, feats should be clear as day.





Beast said:


> Not really sure what you’re trying to say but you’ve made your vote and can’t go back, wait and pray bruh.
> 
> @Dunno cmon now... step into the light and vote.


The problem is with this line here. There's little chance we'll agree at the end of this, making this bet quite useless.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Beast (Nov 28, 2020)

Cursemark said:


> All of this is speculation on your part. I'm not about to argue over opinions or speculation. I want tangible evidence. Zoro being a subordinate has meant nothing thus far. Law & Kid are not on Luffy's level. It's that simple.
> Luffy has gotten a lot stronger while Kid was locked up as Kaido's bitch. Using your logic, if Kid was as strong as Luffy before how the heck would that still be the case?


Luffy was locked up with Kidd and Kidd escaped lmao, what the fuck are you actually talking about?

Luffy has shown us he has left Law in the dust, The same can not be said about Kidd till we see more, Oda has multiple times throughout The Wano arc shown the rivalry between Kidd and luffy, it is undeniable fact that no other SN has been highlighted the same nor interacted with luffy the same, from the prison when they met each other to sailing towards Onigashima, wrecking havoc inside the dome and now even climbing the steps to Kaidou. Oda has held back showing Kidd again and again, like he has done with Kaidou, King, Queen, etc they are blank sheets I personally hope Oda shows in good manner. Oda is saving them all for the fight of onigashima which I’m sure is all in act 4 after 1000 chapter mark.

it’s silly to try to compare Kidds portrayal in comparison to the SNs at being Luffys true rival in that group.


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## Cursemark (Nov 29, 2020)

Beast said:


> Luffy was locked up with Kidd and Kidd escaped lmao, what the fuck are you actually talking about?


I'm talking about from Dressrosa till now. Did Luffy not become significantly stronger during the fight with Katakuri and then even more powerful after the Udon & Hyo training?


Beast said:


> Luffy has shown us he has left Law in the dust, The same can not be said about Kidd till we see more, Oda has multiple times throughout The Wano arc shown the rivalry between Kidd and luffy, it is undeniable fact that no other SN has been highlighted the same nor interacted with luffy the same, from the prison when they met each other to sailing towards Onigashima, wrecking havoc inside the dome and now even climbing the steps to Kaidou. Oda has held back showing Kidd again and again, like he has done with Kaidou, King, Queen, etc they are blank sheets I personally hope Oda shows in good manner. Oda is saving them all for the fight of onigashima which I’m sure is all in act 4 after 1000 chapter mark.
> 
> it’s silly to try to compare Kidds portrayal in comparison to the SNs at being Luffys true rival in that group.


You're gauging  power levels from petty arguments. Do you understand how ridiculous that is? You're literally just hoping that Kid is as strong as Luffy at this point.

Reactions: Agree 4


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## Lawliet (Nov 29, 2020)

HaxHax said:


> The text says that Law turned out to be a more important character than originally envisioned. Not that Kid turned out less important. There's still more to come from Kid.


Sometimes your logic fascinates me because it's actually right. 

Only if you'd accept the Grand Master as your lord and savior. We would be Zoro bros

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Kamina. (Nov 29, 2020)

You can put me down as supporting Zoro > Kidd at the end of Wano. I don't want to be part of the bet though because:

1. The only way you'd accept losing the bet is if Oda himself literally inserted a panel saying "Zoro > Kidd" which he never does.
2. I don't want you deleting your account because your one of my favs here and I enjoy fighting.

Reactions: Like 1 | Friendly 3


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## Tenma (Nov 29, 2020)

I feel this would be more fun if it was all the Zoro wankers vs all the Zoro haters with some goofy penalty

don't think anyone here dislikes you that they would get much, if any gratification from destroying your account, @Beast


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## Kamina. (Nov 29, 2020)

Tenma said:


> I feel this would be more fun if it was all the Zoro wankers vs all the Zoro haters with some goofy penalty
> 
> don't think anyone here dislikes you that they would get much, if any gratification from destroying your account, @Beast



Got that right. Now put up your account and we got another story

Reactions: Funny 4


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## Tenma (Nov 29, 2020)

Kamina. said:


> Got that right. Now put up your account and we got another story

Reactions: Funny 2 | Friendly 1


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## Kamina. (Nov 29, 2020)

Tenma said:


>


Find me a non-trash Char Kway teow recipe and things may change


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## Beast (Nov 29, 2020)

Cursemark said:


> I'm talking about from Dressrosa till now, genius. Did Luffy not become significantly stronger during the fight with Katakuri and then even more powerful after the Udon & Hyo training?
> 
> You're gauging  power levels from petty arguments. Do you understand how ridiculous that is? You're literally just hoping that Kid is as strong as Luffy at this point.


You said Kidd has been doing nothing but staying in prison, which is stupid... we see being in the prison is basically a buff for any strong willed pirate, all this time and pain, could not breaks Kidds will, he just kept going and going and got out. In case you forgot Kidd isn’t the Mc, we ain’t gonna see him train or get stronger, he is just gonna be as strong as Oda needs him to be and from Odas portrayal, Kidd is not at all behind Luffy.

From petty arguments?
you mean portrayal that is pushed down our throats again and again?
better go and read what portrayal is and how that works.


Kamina. said:


> You can put me down as supporting Zoro > Kidd at the end of Wano. I don't want to be part of the bet though because:
> 
> 1. The only way you'd accept losing the bet is if Oda himself literally inserted a panel saying "Zoro > Kidd" which he never does.
> 2. I don't want you deleting your account because your one of my favs here and I enjoy fighting.




I’m sure a few people are going to back out but feats speak for themselves, I don’t think anyone was having any problems deducing the strength of the SHs in EL, I don’t think it will be a problem now... If at this big stage Oda doesn’t show clear feats, then truth be told I’m just wasting my time with this shit... well, not that I wasn’t before.

You know Kamina some people wanna see the world burn, I just wanna see the OL with a few more Sanji avi’s


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## Vengeance (Nov 29, 2020)

Kid seemingly fell behind lately, he needs to step up his game rather that being a poor man's Metal-Luffy.
I'm confident he won't have an equal or better feat than Zoro though. Zoro going all out with Enma and Asura will be an absolute highlight of the arc imo.

Reactions: Like 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Deleted member 58423 (Nov 29, 2020)

Vengeance said:


> Kid seemingly fell behind lately, he needs to step up his game rather that being *a poor man's Metal-Luffy.*
> I'm confident he won't have an equal or better feat than Zoro though. Zoro going all out with Enma and Asura will be an absolute highlight of the arc imo.


luffy's rubber is always with him.

kidd's metal is not.

kidd has a personality and his relationship with his crew is pretty cute but when it comes to abilities, he's much worse off than a hypothetical 'poor man's luffy'


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## Kinjin (Dec 9, 2020)

Why are so many people viewing this thread all of a sudden? Guess everyone must have gotten a notification lol

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Gledania (Dec 9, 2020)

Bruh.

You're not new to one piece.

What PROOF are you excepting exactly ? You think Oda will make both of them fight or something ? How are you going to prove yourself that one is srtonger than the other ? Which one give more hits to kaido ?
Which one get the biggest bounty ? 
You can bring pro/cons argument against any of them. What will happen is that no one will win or lose cause you'll be still arguing kidd > zoro and the Zoro gang will still be arguing zoro > Kidd no matter the winner.

Common now.

Reactions: Like 5 | Agree 1


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## Kylo Ren (Dec 9, 2020)

Gledinos said:


> Bruh.
> 
> You're not new to one piece.
> 
> ...


There's a poll. Beast already dig his own grave.

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## ho11ow (Dec 9, 2020)

Gledinos said:


> Bruh.
> 
> You're not new to one piece.
> 
> ...


If Zoro didn't oneshot Kaido then auto win for Kidd.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Vivo Diez (Dec 9, 2020)

I'm rooting for Kid. He's the last supernova that has a shot at being somewhat of a rival to Luffy. 

Oda had big plans for Kid, I hope he finally starts executing some of them.


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## Deleted member 58423 (Dec 9, 2020)

i think it would be interesting if kidd lost his only remaining arm.


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## Naisutime (Dec 9, 2020)

Just get a Zoro ava, Zoro sig and change your name to Grandmasters nr1 Fan or something for a year.

Why you gotta nuke your account man.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## charles101 (Dec 9, 2020)

Zoro fans will say Zoro. Kidd fans will say Kidd.

And it doesn't matter what will happen in manga. Zoro could OHKO Kaido and some people will say Kidd is stronger and on the other hand Zoro could do nothing, but idk fight against King a bit and some people will say he's top tier, maybe even stronger than Luffy.

So whatever happens people will say they were right.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Kinjin (Dec 9, 2020)

Kin is all in. Voted for Kid!

Reactions: Like 1


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## Dragon D Xebec (Dec 9, 2020)

Comparing Kidd and Zoro is like comparing WB/Shiki to Rayleigh. Very obvious who is stronger.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Beast (Dec 9, 2020)

Naisutime said:


> Just get a Zoro ava, Zoro sig and change your name to Grandmasters nr1 Fan or something for a year.
> 
> Why you gotta nuke your account man.


Zoro> Kidd scratches need the wrong way.

@Gledinos 
Don’t worry about the details,  I for one am not fearing any off panels. If feats are not enough, we have hype and portrayal and if that doesn’t work then we’ve got the mods/ polls. 
Doesn’t matter because Kidd will match Luffy, feat for feat so og course he will be above Zoro.

@Kinjin 
They’re sweating buckets bruh.

don’t worry guys, when the time comes I will tag you all. 1 person Away from my master plan.

Reactions: Funny 1 | Optimistic 1


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## bil02 (Dec 10, 2020)

Dragon D Xebec said:


> Comparing Kidd and Zoro is like comparing WB/Shiki to Rayleigh. Very obvious who is stronger.


Yeah Rayleigh is.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Dragon D Xebec (Dec 10, 2020)

bil02 said:


> Yeah Rayleigh is.


I don't know Rayleigh is the author said to be Roger only equal? Can you post the panel?

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Flame (Dec 10, 2020)

Beast bruh you're taking it way too seriously with that account betting lmao. unless you were a dupe all along like 80% of NF  

Anyway I learned the hard way the supernovas are irrelevant in the face of Luffy. Still healing from that Law treatment in Dressrosa. Regardless I was always on that Zoro being 2nd strongest nova train since the timeskip so

Reactions: Funny 2


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## bil02 (Dec 10, 2020)

Dragon D Xebec said:


> I don't know Rayleigh is the author said to be Roger only equal? Can you post the panel?


Not talking about WB

I see Kid as being Luffy's Shiki and i always had Rayleigh stronger than Shiki.


There are no panels saying Rayleigh is equal to Roger,but let's be real,even if there were some,the One piece fandom will just be arguing left and right that he isn't.

Just look at the WB-Roger comparison,at the end of the day,many people still argue Roger was stronger.

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## Beast (Dec 10, 2020)

Flame said:


> Beast bruh you're taking it way too seriously with that account betting lmao. unless you were a dupe all along like 80% of NF
> 
> Anyway I learned the hard way the supernovas are irrelevant in the face of Luffy. Still healing from that Law treatment in Dressrosa. Regardless I was always on that Zoro being 2nd strongest nova train since the timeskip so


Shhhhhh 


yeah, Kidd isn’t Law and never has been, it was clear from pre TS Luffy and Kidd are closer then anyone else, from the bounties to the portrayal and even feats with G3/ big metal hand pre TS.
Zoro being the second strongest is just outright stupid and makes no sense.




bil02 said:


> Not talking about WB
> 
> I see Kid as being Luffy's Shiki and i always had Rayleigh stronger than Shiki.
> 
> ...


Yeah, no bro... go prove that Ray is as strong as Shiki. Shiki was his captains rival, a yonko alongside Roger AND WB plus could take Garp and Sengoku for a period of time.
Ray being above him is nothing short of famboyism to parallel Zoro, but it holds no weight.
It’s outing more then your fanfic, Ray doesn’t come close to having the same hype/ portrayal as Shiki, another of Rogers main rivals.


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## Beast -- POLL RULE (Dec 10, 2020)

Jin22
Vagrant Tom
Lord Derfel
T.D.A
Stringer
Infinite Xero
MartyMcFly1
Yondaimexs
convict
Donquixote Doflamingo
Serenity
Shiba D. Inu
Sloan
MashDaddy
Mercurial
Kamina.
TrolonoaZoro
jorge2060 88
DavyChan
Garcher
Arkash
DragonSlayerOrnstein
nimo77
2waim
Spiegel
ho11ow
Geralt-Singh
PremierExpert
ice demon slayer
Kylo Ren
neonlight
Jujubatman12
KBD
Cyrus the Cactusjoodaa
Flame
jgvfui1
Asaya7
Crispy Noodles
zoroasura
Kurumator666

well, that’s 41 votes for Zoro making up quite a bit of the Zorotards in this section, well, I’ll go ahead and say that the POLL Option is OPEN but to keep it FAIR, those INVOLVED in the BET are not Allowed to make a vote at the end of the arc as they would be biased seeing as they are involved in the BET to begin with.
Today’s date is 10/12/20
No poster joining the forums after this date is allowed to make a vote (in case of dupes) and anyone that has been inactive in this section for the past 6months (Both now and at the end of arc) are also not allowed to make votes (in case of more dupes or people trying have a friend help them vote).

the people are not allowed to vote goes

Me @Beast
And the 41 Zorotards that are betting against me. (All the names at the top).

I am a kind and caring person, I’m sure that’s well known already, so I’ll give you guys a way out, clearly You guys have reading comprehension problems and probably had troubles reading my post, maybe you didn’t read it altogether but it changes nothing, ONCE you have voted for Zoro, you had become a participant, if you don’t want to be a participant, you can only spectate, you can no longer vote nor join the discussion of this bet. I WILL NOT remove any names that already voted as that is evidence of your biased intentions, I know it’s not fair but ALL those who voted for Kidd can still partake in voting at the end of the arc, they are NOT apart of this BET as I’ve mentioned before hand, there was nothing to gain or lose for them. 


It’s hard to tell you guys but it’s trap and only Oda can save you guys, good luck.


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## bil02 (Dec 10, 2020)

Beast said:


> Shhhhhh
> 
> 
> yeah, Kidd isn’t Law and never has been, it was clear from pre TS Luffy and Kidd are closer then anyone else, from the bounties to the portrayal and even feats with G3/ big metal hand pre TS.
> ...


Being Roger's rival doesn't tell us how strong Shiki is.

Those who were confirmed close/ Equal to Roger are Wb, Garp, Sengoku. 

Shiki was beaten by Garp and Sengoku without inflicting that much damage to Marineford,so yeah nothing tells us he was that strong or anything. 

Rayleigh has feats of stalemating Kizaru despite being 20 years rusty .


Law is Luffy's rival too yet he ain't any stronger than Zoro.

Reactions: Like 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Beast (Dec 10, 2020)

bil02 said:


> Being Roger's rival doesn't tell us how strong Shiki is.
> 
> Those who were confirmed close/ Equal to Roger are Wb, Garp, Sengoku.
> 
> ...


Being Rogers rival and Yonko alongside him and WB tell us enough. BM was also a pirate but not Yonko at that time, Ray is nothing more VC.

take Sengoku out, WB and Garp are the first two, Sengoku and Shiki are close second and both were rivals to each other.

he could fight them for a period of time and did fight them for a period of time, this is a greater feat then anything Ray has been mentioned at doing.

Kizaru was fighting Marco, Garp smacked Marco out of the air like he was nothing. Sengoku was STOPPING BBPs (teach with the gura) from destroying MF, which was already fucked up. Shiki actually fought Sengoku and Garp for a period of time (not sure how long) and despite the aftermath, Oda went out of his way to hype Shiki and say he fought until MF was almost half destroyed.

ehhh... let’s not try that around here bruh. Law vs Zoro thread is in the battledome, and that is exactly why I said You’re Ray hype is nothing more then trying to draw parallel for Zoro, it doesn’t work.

Also this a bet thread, you’ve stated your opinion let’s just leave it as that, maybe in another thread I will carry on the conversation.

Reactions: Neutral 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## 青月光 (Dec 10, 2020)

Why no one called me?

Reactions: Friendly 2


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## Canute87 (Dec 10, 2020)

i already have my bet on akainu killing the gorosei.

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## Flame (Dec 10, 2020)

Beast said:


> Shhhhhh
> 
> 
> yeah, Kidd isn’t Law and never has been, it was clear from pre TS Luffy and Kidd are closer then anyone else, from the bounties to the portrayal and even feats with G3/ big metal hand pre TS.
> Zoro being the second strongest is just outright stupid and makes no sense.


Not at all. Law has been portrayed as their peer since the TS and even now yet the gap is very clear. Bounty means jack shit when he's been matched up with Apoo in Sabaody and even Wano. Don't get me wrong i'm a Kid fan but it's outright denial to believe any of the supernova can match up to Luffy at this point.

Unlike them Zoro has a lot going on for him. His goalpost Mihawk is already a yonko level top tier and as a SH he's guaranteed to surpass him with a chance of being the greatest swordsman ever. Kid has more chances to be comparable to Zoro than to Luffy.

Reactions: Like 1


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## MrPopo (Dec 10, 2020)

Flame said:


> Not at all. Law has been portrayed as their peer since the TS and even now yet the gap is very clear. Bounty means jack shit when he's been matched up with Apoo in Sabaody and even Wano. Don't get me wrong i'm a Kid fan but it's outright denial to believe any of the supernova can match up to Luffy at this point.
> 
> Unlike them Zoro has a lot going on for him. His goalpost Mihawk is already a yonko level top tier and as a SH he's guaranteed to surpass him with a chance of being the greatest swordsman ever. Kid has more chances to be comparable to Zoro than to Luffy.


I always thought Kid was the closest sn to Luffy just because of his ambition to become pirate king is the same as Luffys

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Fel1x (Dec 10, 2020)

better bet is what type of difficulty can Zoro give to Kidd before Kidd will solo him

I bet it's no more that mid diff. at best it's low end of high diff

because:
1) Kidd is Luffy's rival, means they are ~ on the same tier which is above Zoro's
2) Kidd's DF is a counter to any swordsmen

so to sum it up, unless Zoro is attacking him like he always does now (cheap shotting), its low end of high diff at best under best circumstances for Zoro

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## Flame (Dec 10, 2020)

MrPopo said:


> I always thought Kid was the closest sn to Luffy just because of his ambition to become pirate king is the same as Luffys


Kiba also had Hokage ambitions

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 2 | Tier Specialist 1


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## MrPopo (Dec 10, 2020)

Flame said:


> Kiba also had Hokage ambitions


@Beast you gonna let Flame insult your boy like that


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## 青月光 (Dec 10, 2020)

Oh Zoro vs Kidd

Should I use a divination method (Tarot) to predict the future and see who'll be stronger?


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## Beast (Dec 10, 2020)

Flame said:


> Not at all. Law has been portrayed as their peer since the TS and even now yet the gap is very clear. Bounty means jack shit when he's been matched up with Apoo in Sabaody and even Wano. Don't get me wrong i'm a Kid fan but it's outright denial to believe any of the supernova can match up to Luffy at this point.
> 
> Unlike them Zoro has a lot going on for him. His goalpost Mihawk is already a yonko level top tier and as a SH he's guaranteed to surpass him with a chance of being the greatest swordsman ever. Kid has more chances to be comparable to Zoro than to Luffy.


It takes the same amount of denial to suggest that Kidd and law have been portrayed in the same way.

Kidd also has ties to Shanks and that’s who he wants to beat after Kaidou, it’s nothing more then downplay to suggest that Zoro has more going for him,
When for one Zoros end goal is Mihawk, while Kidd is trying to take on Shanks who is at worst equal to Mihawk and that isn’t his end game, he wants to be PK just like Luffy, Law we’ve  come to understand isn’t looking to be PK in the same manner as Kidd or luffy, so even if we look at end game possibilities, Kidd is still ahead of Zoro by Mihawks own admission to Luffy back in EB. 
yeah, not really... Kidd is a blank page but with hype and portrayal equal to Luffy, Saying his closer to Zoro then luffy is nothing more then headcanon.
@MrPopo 
Denial turned to lies, Kidd is the only SN other then Luffy that we know has one goal which is PK.


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## muchentuchen (Dec 10, 2020)

That glorious, GLORIOUS moment when Zoro goes:

That day, the haters will get PTSD from keyboards and abstain for a month!! Owyeahhhhhhhhh

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Flame (Dec 10, 2020)

Beast said:


> It takes the same amount of denial to suggest that Kidd and law have been portrayed in the same way.
> 
> Kidd also has ties to Shanks and that’s who he wants to beat after Kaidou, it’s nothing more then downplay to suggest that Zoro has more going for him,
> When for one Zoros end goal is Mihawk, while Kidd is trying to take on Shanks who is at worst equal to Mihawk and that isn’t his end game, he wants to be PK just like Luffy, Law we’ve  come to understand isn’t looking to be PK in the same manner as Kidd or luffy, so even if we look at end game possibilities, Kidd is still ahead of Zoro by Mihawks own admission to Luffy back in EB.
> ...


Ambition doesn't put him on the same level as Luffy lol. It's been established already Luffy is the boy of prophecy, you'll have to be delusional to believe he actually stands a chance at being his equal at this point. WB had no such goal yet was Roger's equal. BM and Kaido on the other hand...

Kid has ties to Shanks fine but that's exactly why I added Zoro being a SH is important. Luffy also wants to take down all the yonko, tell me who has more chance? Zoro taking down Mihawk or a Mihawk level opponent is a guarantee at this point precisely thanks to him being a SH. There's literally no guarantee of Kid ever doing something like that.

anyway i've met my quota of serious posts for this month and it's clear you ain't gonna change your mind so we'll just have to wait

Reactions: Like 1 | Friendly 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Beast (Dec 10, 2020)

Flame said:


> Ambition doesn't put him on the same level as Luffy lol. It's been established already Luffy is the boy of prophecy, you'll have to be delusional to believe he actually stands a chance at being his equal at this point. WB had no such goal yet was Roger's equal. BM and Kaido on the other hand...
> 
> Kid has ties to Shanks fine but that's exactly why I added Zoro being a SH is important. Luffy also wants to take down all the yonko, tell me who has more chance? Zoro taking down Mihawk or a Mihawk level opponent is a guarantee at this point precisely thanks to him being a SH. There's literally no guarantee of Kid ever doing something like that.


Portrayal is what puts Kidd above Law And zoro currently.
Ambition is what puts his ceiling above Zoros.  
there is no guarantee of anything, Zoro fighting Mihawk being one as well. Zoro could end up fighting Shiryu or even Fuji, depending on if and who takes down Mihawk.

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## Redline (Dec 10, 2020)

lol
 zorois no match for kidd since he got the worst possible counter df for zoro, kidd might beat also mihakw becouse of it, just think about it!kiss is the worsdt possble nightmare for a swordman, law is dangerous too but not like kidd

i am with kidd  and it is also obvious zoro has the edge here only becouse of his die hard fandome , facts  not faps

Reactions: Friendly 1 | GODA 1 | Disagree 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Dec 10, 2020)

31 votes for Kidd


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## Redline (Dec 10, 2020)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> 31 votes for Kidd


off couse kidd owns zoro 24//7 sorry

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Dec 10, 2020)

Redline said:


> off couse kidd owns zoro 24//7 sorry



Must be nice to dream

Reactions: Useful 1


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## Beast (Dec 10, 2020)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> 31 votes for Kidd


Wait till Kidd is the one to kill Kaidou and crucify him like he did those punks at the end of the Pre TS.


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## Redline (Dec 10, 2020)

disagree? another confirmed zoro fan nothing more there lol


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## Ruse (Dec 10, 2020)

This poll was a lot more lopsided last time I saw it lol


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## Rephybrolo200000 (Dec 10, 2020)

obviously kidd

Reactions: Like 1


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## Mob (Dec 11, 2020)

kidd


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## Mori Jin (Dec 11, 2020)

Zorojuro obviously


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## Kylo Ren (Dec 11, 2020)

34 votes for Kidd? I only know three person who die hard Kidd gang. And thats ruse, nox and beast the other Must be from Grandmaster haters.

Reactions: Friendly 1


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## Ruse (Dec 11, 2020)

Kylo Ren said:


> 34 votes for Kidd? I only know three person who die hard Kidd gang. And thats ruse, nox and beast the other Must be from Grandmaster haters.


Great Potato and Soca are Kid fans to be fair can’t speak for the rest lol

Reactions: Informative 1


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## ho11ow (Dec 11, 2020)

Zoro declared that he will slay Kaido Infront of King and Queen is better portrayal than any of Kidd portrayal in Wano so far.


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## Ren. (Dec 11, 2020)

Beast said:


> This is a bet thread for the insensible Zoro wank, what way to kill it then to embarrass all the tards at once.
> 
> the bet is quite simple, I’m claiming that at the END of Wano, when the battles are said and done, There will be no denying that Kidd is stronger then Zoro. Simple.
> 
> ...





Neah Zoro is not outsining  Kid at the end of Wano ... but mad respect for doing this.

But A pool deciding this is just a popularity contest so yuck.

And you know why because if I make a pool who is strong Luffy or Zoro?

There will be 30-40% to Zoro and that is well special.


TrolonoaZoro said:


> When has there been a cotemporary in this manga that you can say is without a doubt stronger than Zoro?


Luffy, BB always.



Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> 31 votes for Kidd


Want that to go to let's say 50 ... I can manage that


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## Beast (Dec 11, 2020)

ho11ow said:


> Zoro declared that he will slay Kaido Infront of King and Queen is better portrayal than any of Kidd portrayal in Wano so far.


That’s not portrayal bruh. 
@Ren. 
Yeah, I know that’s why everyone involved in the bet is not allowed to vote in that poll, that’s 45 Zorotards out of the picture.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Gledania (Dec 11, 2020)

ho11ow said:


> Zoro declared that he will slay Kaido Infront of King and Queen is better portrayal than any of Kidd portrayal in Wano so far.


tbh , this is not really a big argument.Let's stick to Ryumma parallel and Oden sword ...

Zoro also said he will kill orochi , gather up the samurai , take Gyakimarus swords ...

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Ren. (Dec 11, 2020)

Vengeance said:


> will be an absolute highlight of the arc imo.


LOL ... Mate OP, in each arc the most bad ass scenes are Luffys.

he is the top dog of his generation PERIOD, BB beeing his nigh equal rival that is much older than him.

In Alabsta it was Crcodile getting stomped that put Luffy at small town Level, that was the apex.
In EL it was Luffy's G3 demolishing a steal doar and almost KO lucci and of coure the last jet Galling.
in TB it was Jet shell a G3+G2 move that was the apex.

In Dressrosa it was KKG.

In wano it will be the move that will finish Kaido off.


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## Dragon D Xebec (Dec 11, 2020)

Starting to think that Kidd is Luffy's WB. Kidd is not Shiki even though Kidd is more similar to Shiki than WB.

It's clear that WB>Shiki. If Kidd is Shiki whereas Law is WB that means Law>Kidd but that's not the case. It's obvious Kidd>Law. Luffy and Kidd also have first mate who are supernova too. In Onigashima Kidd is grouped with Luffy while Law acts as a support.

Dofla also said Luffy potential>Law because Luffy unlocked CoC before Law and guess Kidd also unlocked CoC as stated by Kaido. Imo Law is Luffy's WB went down hill the moment Dofla stated Luffy has bigger potential than Law because Luffy unlocked CoC first. WB is called Roger's only equal. I can't think EOS Law is called Luffy's equal. Kidd is more fitting for that to be called Luffy's only equal. Or maybe BB will take that spot but Kidd should be close to EOS Luffy power level wise.

Reactions: Like 2 | Optimistic 1


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## Beast (Dec 11, 2020)

Dragon D Xebec said:


> Starting to think that Kidd is Luffy's WB. Kidd is not Shiki even though Kidd is more similar to Shiki than WB.
> 
> It's clear that WB>Shiki. If Kidd is Shiki whereas Law is WB that means Law>Kidd but that's not the case. It's obvious Kidd>Law. Luffy and Kidd also have first mate who are supernova too. In Onigashima Kidd is grouped with Luffy while Law acts as a support.
> 
> Dofla also said Luffy potential>Law because Luffy unlocked CoC before Law and guess Kidd also unlocked CoC as stated by Kaido. Imo Law is Luffy's WB went down hill the moment Dofla stated Luffy has bigger potential than Law because Luffy unlocked CoC first. WB is called Roger's only equal. I can't think EOS Law is called Luffy's equal. Kidd is more fitting for that to be called Luffy's only equal. Or maybe BB will take that spot but Kidd should be close to EOS Luffy power level wise.


BB is Rox, Luffy greatest rival and obstacle (older and practically from a different Gen).
Kidd is WB, Luffys equal and main rival from his gen. 
Luffy himself is both Garp and Roger.
There’s no space left for Law... thus he has joined Luffy and become one his biggest fans, he put his hopes and dreams in Luffys hand... Law is Oden at best.

Reactions: Like 1 | Optimistic 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Gledania (Dec 11, 2020)

Dragon D Xebec said:


> Dofla stated Luffy has bigger potential than Law


when ?


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## Ren. (Dec 11, 2020)

Dragon D Xebec said:


> Dofla also said Luffy potential>Law because Luffy unlocked CoC before Law and guess Kidd also unlocked CoC as stated by Kaido. Imo Law is Luffy's WB went down hill the moment Dofla stated Luffy has bigger potential than Law because Luffy unlocked CoC first. WB is called Roger's only equal. I can't think EOS Law is called Luffy's equal. Kidd is more fitting for that to be called Luffy's only equal. Or maybe BB will take that spot but Kidd should be close to EOS Luffy power level wise.


Luffy will not have a WB, a Xebec or a Garp.

He will defeat them all, Kid and BB and someone at the end of the story.

Luffy is not the symetrical parallel to Roger or even Joy boy, he will be the one that surpasses them by doing what they could not do.

OP was never a rival's manga, there is no Sasuke in this manga PERIOD.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Disagree 1


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## Dragon D Xebec (Dec 11, 2020)

Gledinos said:


> when ?

Reactions: Like 1 | Informative 1


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## Great Potato (Dec 11, 2020)

_"Be careful of Luffy, he's a serious threat that may be more powerful than Law, we can't underestimate him...

I'll send Buffalo and Baby-5 your way to clean things up!!!"_

I'm surprised the Strawhats were able to defeat Doflamingo with this sort of impeccable logic and decision making.

Reactions: Funny 10


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## Beast (Dec 12, 2020)

Ren. said:


> Luffy will not have a WB, a Xebec or a Garp.
> 
> He will defeat them all, Kid and BB and someone at the end of the story.
> 
> ...


Surpass Joyboy?
Where did you get that from?
Achieve what Roger couldnt?
Did you skip Odens FB? Roger did get to Raftel BUT was too early, it was out of Rogers hands, Luffy is a child written in destiny. 

OP really isn’t too different from other shounen on the basics.
Luffy does have rivals, BB is his polar opposite.
Kidd is a rival, this has been portrayed again and again.
Luffy is exactly like Roger but with a twist of Garp, not sure what you mean by he is neither. 
luffy is prophesied to fill Joyboys dreams/ goals/ treasures.
You must not have been reading the story to well if you think Luffy is somehow a totally unique character in OP and his relations.

Roger has at the very least WB (equals) strongest titles/ PK title.
Kaidou and BM (equals) strongest title. 
Shanks and Mihawk (equals) strongest title. 
that’s a clearly rivalry for each gen but somehow Oda is gonna do Luffy differently like he has always done... but wait, Oda never changes his style so Yhh nah bruh. Luffy will have rivals and already does have rivals.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Dec 12, 2020)

I would like to point out that Kidd is currently prepping a massive amount of metal in order to fight Kaidou. Something he normally would not be able to do. 

So if Kidd is not clear and away stronger then Zoro i don't want to see any bitching as Kidds future performance against Kaidou, big mom, or whoever is going to be him fighting at a higher level then he is normally capable of due to the massive amount of metal that is available to him in onigashima and the time he has to collect said metal. 

If Kidd can't out perform Zoro with perfect conditions and prep you kidd fans should go commit seppuku.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Beast (Dec 12, 2020)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> I would like to point out that Kidd is currently prepping a massive amount of metal in order to fight Kaidou. Something he normally would not be able to do.
> 
> So if Kidd is not clear and away stronger then Zoro i don't want to see any bitching as Kidds future performance against Kaidou, big mom, or whoever is going to be him fighting at a higher level then he is normally capable of due to the massive amount of metal that is available to him in onigashima and the time he has to collect said metal.
> 
> If Kidd can't out perform Zoro with perfect conditions and prep you kidd fans should go commit seppuku.


And Zoro would never be as strong without Enma? Lol

that’s stupid. We don’t know what he using all that metal for... so just wait and see. We saw that Kidd can easily pull in metals metres and miles away but he is bring ALOT for a certain purpose against Kaidou.

Did Zoro not just give away his sword of the same rank for Emma that gives haki boosts and the feat of scaring Kaidou?
am I right to say that if Zoro gets one hit with Enma and causes severe damage that... he can only do such a thing with Enma and none of his other swords?

don’t get weak between the knees so quickly.

Kidd could become a transformer for all we know. Just prep that tight anus for a metal fisting.

Reactions: Like 1 | Optimistic 1


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Dec 12, 2020)

Beast said:


> *And Zoro would never be as strong without Enma? Lol*
> 
> that’s stupid. We don’t know what he using all that metal for... so just wait and see. We saw that Kidd can easily pull in metals metres and miles away but he is bring ALOT for a certain purpose against Kaidou.
> 
> ...



You really comparing Enma to Kidd having a perfect environment for his devil fruit and prep time 

Enma is a permanent power up, Kidd having two massive armys fighting on a small island and time to collect said metal from the two armys is a situational power up. In a normal situation kidd would not have no where near this amount of metal for him to collect, and in a battle dome scenario he would have zero time to collect it without interference from his opponents.

All im saying is Kidd fans have no excuse when Zoro out performs him(which he will do). He has plenty of metal to use and plenty of time to collect it.

Reactions: Like 1 | Informative 1


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## Sherlōck (Dec 12, 2020)

Kylo Ren said:


> I only know three person who die hard Kidd gang. And thats ruse, nox and beast the other Must be from Grandmaster haters.



I am the OG Kidd fan.

Reactions: Funny 1 | Informative 1 | Friendly 1


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## Beast (Dec 12, 2020)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> You really comparing Enma to Kidd having a perfect environment for his devil fruit and prep time
> 
> Enma is a permanent power up, Kidd having two massive armys fighting on a small island and time to collect said metal from the two armys is a situational power up. In a normal situation kidd would not have no where near this amount of metal for him to collect, and in a battle dome scenario he would have zero time to collect it without interference from his opponents.
> 
> All im saying is Kidd fans have no excuse when Zoro out performs him(which he will do). He has plenty of metal to use and plenty of time to collect it.


I mean it could lead to a number of things. We don’t know why he needs all that metal for now... all he has done so far is make G3 fists... is he just gonna make a bigger fist? 
is he can use it to transform?

will this lead to Kidd awakening his fruit?
It’s still unknown, if Kidd uses it as ammo then yeah, I could understand but that is a reach to say that because he is fighting KAIDOU with prep... he will need to do the same with Zoro. That’s illogical, Zoot isn’t anywhere close to Kaidous level and carries ammo for Kidd if that’s how you believe he fights.

Kidd always has a metal hand unless he is in prison, most islands have metal as swords are the preferred way of fighting or guns. We’ve seen Kidd pull metal to himself instantly... did you forget When he attacked Apoo? 
tou think it took him time to gather that metal On his hand and still do a sneak attack? Lol

I’m saying that this is a special case for Kidd or maybe not, we don’t know how his fruit works exactly.

Ahh, that’s different then... that’s called confidence, you should give some to the other tards that are already trying to say how there won’t be concrete feats etc.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Sherlōck (Dec 12, 2020)

I want Kidd to rip apart islands using his magnetic power and throw them at Laidou.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Beast (Dec 12, 2020)

Sherlōck said:


> I want Kidd to rip apart islands using his magnetic power and throw them at Laidou.


He is gonna pull the big sword at the entrance and split both Kaidou and the island at once.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Dec 12, 2020)

Beast said:


> I mean it could lead to a number of things. We don’t know why he needs all that metal for now... all he has done so far is make G3 fists... is he just gonna make a bigger fist?
> is he can use it to transform?
> 
> will this lead to Kidd awakening his fruit?
> ...



Does it matter why he is collecting it beyond the fact he feels he needs to in order to beat Kaidou? 

I'm not saying Kidd prepping for Kaidou means he has to prep for Zoro. I'm saying Kidd is gonna be fighting at his peak condition he has everything he needs to show us everything he is capable of. So once he fails to surpass the Grand Master i want Kidd fans to slit there belly's in repentance.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Beast (Dec 12, 2020)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Does it matter why he is collecting it beyond the fact he feels he needs to in order to beat Kaidou?
> 
> I'm not saying Kidd prepping for Kaidou means he has to prep for Zoro. I'm saying Kidd is gonna be fighting at his peak condition he has everything he needs to show us everything he is capable of. So once he fails to surpass the Grand Master i want Kidd fans to slit there belly's in repentance.


What and how he uses it I think matters even more. Imagine we see him take all that metal but never use it beyond just wrappping his arms in it lol.
that would just be pathetic because he has done that already without the prep.

I will and scream out SNATCHU as I do it, die my green before I go to after life, at the very least I won’t be shamed in this world.
but you, Zoro can use 5 swords for all I care but when everything is said and done, once you see Kidd is as strong as Luffy nevermind a chump like Zoro, Ima need you burn and cut one side of your face, cut off your arm, insert a metal hand, colour your hair red and from then on... introduce yourself as cyborg till the ends of time.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Redline (Dec 12, 2020)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Must be nice to dream


Did you start to talk to yourself lol


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## Redline (Dec 12, 2020)

Beast said:


> What and how he uses it I think matters even more. Imagine we see him take all that metal but never use it beyond just wrappping his arms in it lol.
> that would just be pathetic because he has done that already without the prep.
> 
> I will and scream out SNATCHU as I do it, die my green before I go to after life, at the very least I won’t be shamed in this world.
> but you, Zoro can use 5 swords for all I care but when everything is said and done, once you see Kidd is as strong as Luffy nevermind a chump like Zoro, Ima need you burn and cut one side of your face, cut off your arm, insert a metal hand, colour your hair red and from then on... introduce yourself as cyborg till the ends of time.


Nice tread Beast! I am Just Surprise you didnt Hey banned bfor It since i have been banned Only to Say zototards once lol..
Things must have improvrd bere from that lol
Zototards, zorofags, zorofandumb as so on...aahahah..It Is All confirmed

Reactions: Friendly 1


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## Beast (Dec 12, 2020)

Redline said:


> Nice tread Beast! I am Just Surprise you didnt Hey banned bfor It since i have been banned Only to Say zototards once lol..
> Things must have improvrd bere from that lol
> Zototards, zorofags, zorofandumb as so on...aahahah..It Is All confirmed


I think it depends on how use the term. 
I wasn’t being disrespectful with it

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Dragon D Xebec (Dec 12, 2020)

Oda hasn't shown Kidd uses CoC. His battle with Kaido is the perfect time for Oda to show Kidd CoC. I think both Luffy and Kidd will both show CoC when fighting Kaido. Putting Luffy and Kidd as equal again portrayal wise.

Reactions: Agree 1 | GODA 2


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## Beast (Dec 12, 2020)

Dragon D Xebec said:


> Oda hasn't shown Kidd uses CoC. His battle with Kaido is the perfect time for Oda to show Kidd CoC. I think both Luffy and Kidd will both show CoC when fighting Kaido. Putting Luffy and Kidd as equal again portrayal wise.


Chapter 1000, it will be luffy and Kidd standing side by side mirroring BM and Kaidou facing them.

Reactions: Like 2 | Creative 1 | GODA 1 | Optimistic 2


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## Redline (Dec 12, 2020)

Beast said:


> Chapter 1000, it will be luffy and Kidd standing side by side mirroring BM and Kaidou facing them.


This

Reactions: GODA 2


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## NotTommy (Dec 13, 2020)

If Kid doesn't accomplish more against Kaido than Zoro (who might even face  a Calamity beforehand), I give up on him as Luffy's rival (he'll just become Law 2.0). If that happens, I'll concede but I'd be very surprised considering that he has more issues with Kaido than Zoro (who had more beef with Orochi than anyone else) and has been aiming for revenge against Kaido for everything that happened to him and Killer. Feat-wise neither Zoro nor Kid has achieved much so all that there's to go on is portrayal and I'd say both have had pretty good portrayal. I'm prepared to acknowledge I'm wrong if Zoro outshines Kid but I don't think that'll happen.

Reactions: Agree 3


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## Mr. Good vibes (Dec 13, 2020)

I really want to believe that Kidd can bring the sauce, but 80+ chapters in and we still have yet to see him do anything of note. How Oda gonna do this man dirty by letting Drake and Zoro take out the man who put him and his crew in this situation still boggles my mind. With the hype Oda seems to be giving Zoro at this rate I can't see Kidd coming out of this arc stronger equal perhaps, but not stronger.

Reactions: Like 1 | Neutral 2


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## Beast (Dec 13, 2020)

Mr. Good vibes said:


> I really want to believe that Kidd can bring the sauce, but 80+ chapters in and we still have yet to see him do anything of note. How Oda gonna do this man dirty by letting Drake and Zoro take out the man who put him and his crew in this situation still boggles my mind. With the hype Oda seems to be giving Zoro at this rate I can't see Kidd coming out of this arc stronger equal perhaps, but not stronger.


Haven’t you heard? 
Odas creativity has hit a wall. He must save up his strength for the final battle. It’s the reason we don’t really much from Kaidou other then dragon form and club hits.
And as for Apoo, yes that was disappointing but I knew that would happen as soon as Kidd hit him and Killer as well as Zoro, Luffy and Kidd all turned around and said they need to save strength and get to Kaidou, I knew it was BS. Killer or Hawkins taking him out would have made more sense, I mean given how Apoo refuses to go down, I can see Hawkins making an appearance and getting that past hit. First it was Kidd and at the end it’s Hawkins, kinda poetic.

Reactions: Like 1 | Optimistic 1


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## Redline (Dec 13, 2020)

NotTommy said:


> If Kid doesn't accomplish more against Kaido than Zoro (who might even face  a Calamity beforehand), I give up on him as Luffy's rival (he'll just become Law 2.0). If that happens, 'll concede but I'd be very surprised considering that he has more issues with Kaido than Zoro (who had more beef with Orochi than anyone else) and has been aiming for revenge against Kaido for everything that happened to him and Killer. Feat-wise neither Zoro nor Kid has achieved much so all that there's to go on is portrayal and I'd say both have had pretty good portrayal. I'm prepared to acknowledge I'm wrong if Zoro outshines Kid but I don't think that'll happen.


this i must agree on givin up

Reactions: Funny 1


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## fenaker (Dec 14, 2020)

Bet on useless Midd who is unlucky in the new world and has Ls and you will lose like him

Reactions: Funny 2


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## maupp (Dec 14, 2020)

Beast said:


> Chapter 1000, it will be luffy and Kidd standing side by side mirroring BM and Kaidou facing them.


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## Rom the Chad Knight (Dec 15, 2020)

fenaker said:


> Bet on useless Midd who is unlucky in the new world and has Ls and you will lose like him


Zolo will eat another L when he gets cucked by law and is forced to watch on the sidelines as his dad law and uncle kidd do more work by themselves





Luffy ain't even needed


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## fenaker (Dec 15, 2020)

goldfish00 said:


> Zolo will eat another L when he gets cucked by law and is forced to watch on the sidelines as his dad law and uncle kidd do more work by themselves
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Useless Midd has his Ls and his bad luck that will help him to lose another arm and he will create his Clan of no arms oh and that arm will be eaten by jack meanwhile Law will lose his life  to help Luffy with hawkins speech in chapter 990
whereas
Zoro has portrayal and parallels with Oden / Ryuma and Kaido is waiting for him .


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## Beast (Dec 16, 2020)

Who’s dupe is this?

 

if I was to personally guess... Probably @Shiba D. Inu truing to build a new account to fit in with Zorotards.

Reactions: Optimistic 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## fenaker (Feb 5, 2021)

this shit didn't age well

Reactions: Funny 8 | Optimistic 1


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## Delta Shell (Feb 5, 2021)

I've skipped The last 6 pages. Fair play to you for having such confidence in Kidd that you'd bet your account.

I'd say it would be a shame to see you go, just an embarrassing avy is enough but you do you.

Reactions: Funny 4


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## maupp (Feb 5, 2021)

Beast said:


> Chapter 1000, it will be luffy and Kidd standing side by side mirroring BM and Kaidou facing them.

Reactions: Agree 2 | Funny 15 | Optimistic 1


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## Jin22 (Feb 5, 2021)

Oh boy...

Kid supporters have got to be on suicide watch

Reactions: Winner 3


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## Vivo Diez (Feb 5, 2021)

maupp said:


>


He was p close on the money tbh

Reactions: Winner 2


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## Sloan (Feb 5, 2021)

My guy about to have a Zoro set after Wano :x

Reactions: Funny 3


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## maupp (Feb 5, 2021)

Vivo Diez said:


> He was p close on the money tbh


Just squeeze out Killer and @Beast is the Oracle.

Reactions: Funny 5 | Friendly 1 | GODA 1


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## Beast (Feb 5, 2021)

Delta Shell said:


> I've skipped The last 6 pages. Fair play to you for having such confidence in Kidd that you'd bet your account.
> 
> I'd say it would be a shame to see you go, just an embarrassing avy is enough but you do you.


It’s do or die!
The will must not break until it’s broken!!


maupp said:


>


You thought you did something  


fenaker said:


> this shit didn't age well


I didn’t know the arc finished so early

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Yumi Zoro (Feb 5, 2021)

goldfish00 said:


> Zolo will eat another L when he gets cucked by law and is forced to watch on the sidelines as his dad law and uncle kidd do more work by themselves
> 
> 
> 
> ...


HOLY SHIT!!!!!!!
The fuck is this mess.





Thread did not age well.


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## Brian (Feb 5, 2021)

You dont need to sudoku over Midd, dont do it bro

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1 | Funny 2 | Creative 1


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## Rom the Chad Knight (Feb 5, 2021)

L


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## January (Feb 5, 2021)

I understand the enthusiasm.

However, bumping thread before the chapter hits officially might not be a good idea.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Friendly 1 | GODA 1


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## Lurko (Feb 5, 2021)




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## Oberyn Nymeros (Feb 5, 2021)

Beast ain't no punk bitch. 
It's been like 2 chapters and Kid hasn't done anything mind blowing and people are doubting what his overall combat power will wind up being.

Reactions: Like 2 | Friendly 1


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## A Optimistic (Feb 5, 2021)

Zoro was stronger than Kidd pre-timeskip. Zoro was stronger than Kidd at the start of the timeskip. Zoro is stronger than Kidd in Wano. And Zoro will be stronger than Kidd at the end of the series. In fact, Zoro can defeat 5 Kidds at the same time, and you have the audacity to think even one Kidd can give Zoro a fight?

Sign me up for the bet.

That being said, I think you're a very funny and cool dude and I don't want you deleting your account when you lose. Simply wearing a Zoro avatar for a month is punishment enough for you.

Reactions: Funny 2 | Winner 6 | Creative 1


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## Beast (Feb 5, 2021)

January said:


> I understand the enthusiasm.
> 
> However, bumping thread before the chapter hits officially might not be a good idea.


The tards have learned a lot from Captain  Kidd and hit me with a surprise attack, this wasnt intentional lol.


Oberyn Nymeros said:


> Beast ain't no punk bitch.
> It's been like 2 chapters and Kid hasn't done anything mind blowing and people are doubting what his overall combat power will wind up being.


Yes sir!

kinjins gonna have to ban me once Kidd takes flight.


A Optimistic said:


> Zoro was stronger than Kidd pre-timeskip. Zoro was stronger than Kidd at the start of the timeskip. Zoro is stronger than Kidd in Wano. And Zoro will be stronger than Kidd at the end of the series. In fact, Zor can defeat 5 Kidds at the same time, and you have the audacity to think even one Kidd can give Zoro a fight?
> 
> Sign me up for the bet.
> 
> That being said, I think you're a very funny and cool dude and I don't want you deleting your account when you lose. Simply wearing a Zoro avatar for a month is punishment enough for you.


Sign up!
And can’t do an account bet apparently, rules change is in one of other pages lol.

Numbers look like they might hit triple digits, get all your friends together!!! #ZKK

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


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## A Optimistic (Feb 5, 2021)

I think this bet would be more fair if you made it Zoro vs Kidd and Law at the same time.

I mean Zoro would still win but at least this time he would be pushed to low difficulty. It's not too late to change the bet, Beast.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 6 | Creative 1


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## Beast (Feb 5, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> I think this bet would be more fair if you made it Zoro vs Kidd and Law at the same time.
> 
> I mean Zoro would still win but at least this time he would be pushed to low difficulty. It's not too late to change the bet, Beast.


And what’s Law gonna do? 
take orders from Zoro?
He probably does need Laws help given he can’t exactly move around by himself much

Reactions: Funny 1


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## A Optimistic (Feb 5, 2021)

Beast said:


> And what’s Law gonna do?
> take orders from Zoro?
> He probably does need Laws help given he can’t exactly move around by himself much



Law is going to save Kidd from being one shotted by Enma in the first 10 seconds of the fight.

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Beast (Feb 5, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> Law is going to save Kidd from being one shotted by Enma in the first 10 seconds of the fight.


Enma is gonna do about as much damage  as wind scythe Kaidou tried to pull and Kidds got faster reactions then Law

Reactions: Funny 1


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## A Optimistic (Feb 5, 2021)

Beast said:


> Enma is gonna do about as much damage  as wind scythe Kaidou tried to pull and Kidds got faster reactions then Law



I'ma need you to include my name in the opening post. I been writing essays defending Zoro all the time to not be up there.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Beast (Feb 5, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> I'ma need you to include my name in the opening post. I been writing essays defending Zoro all the time to not be up there.


I brave warrior I see

Reactions: Friendly 1


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## Oda Report (Feb 5, 2021)

Beast said:


> And what’s Law gonna do?



Heal Luffy to max health after Zoro is put down.


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## Ekkologix (Feb 5, 2021)

@Beast

i think u might end up embarrasing urself lol

i go with zoro here 

but dont get urself banned pls


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Feb 6, 2021)

Even though I placed my bets on zoro I did not think It would be this bad. 

I thought Kidd would look less impressive then zoro. Not be a disappointment. 

I still expect Kidd to show some shit before luffy show takes over but the same goes for zoro. 

Zoro>Kidd I am even more confident of that position.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 2 | Winner 2


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## Lurko (Feb 6, 2021)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Even though I placed my bets on zoro I did not think It would be this bad.
> 
> I thought Kidd would look less impressive then zoro. Not be a disappointment.
> 
> ...


I'm sure Oda will have him do something down the line hopefully...


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## Oda Report (Feb 6, 2021)

Lurker said:


> I'm sure Oda will have him do something down the line hopefully...



Here's the report.

More then likely.

Oda already stated something along the lines of kid will do something grand, not to mention Oda wanted to create a mecha/robot manga after One Piece before it became his life's work.

So kid and Vega punk fit dat bill.

So kid fans....hold onto ya butts.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Lurko (Feb 6, 2021)

Oda Report said:


> Here's the report.
> 
> More then likely.
> 
> ...


What about Zoro?


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## Sloan (Feb 6, 2021)

Oda Report said:


> Here's the report.
> 
> More then likely.
> 
> ...


Oda said WCI was Sanji's year.

For Ohara Library that translated to: 

Wow Sanji's going to fight and beat a commander 1vs1

For Oda, it translated to:

Sanji bakes a cake

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Oda Report (Feb 6, 2021)

Sloan said:


> Oda said WCI was Sanji's year.
> 
> For Ohara Library that translated to:
> 
> ...



If you followed the storyline, that makes since. Sanji is a cook afterall and his dream is the all blue plus we got to know more about Sanji like it or hate it during wci. 

I enjoyed Mr Prince from alabasta sanji will never be that great in my eyes. 

Wano is Zoros space and he is doing wonders.


Lurker said:


> What about Zoro?



Zoro is destined for greatness in wano just with the foreshadowing before this arc even got on it's legs.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Canute87 (Feb 6, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> Law is going to save Kidd from being one shotted by Enma in the first 10 seconds of the fight.



Kidd just needs step to the side  and Zoro misses.

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Sloan (Feb 6, 2021)

Oda Report said:


> If you followed the storyline, that makes since. Sanji is a cook afterall and his dream is the all blue plus we got to know more about Sanji like it or hate it during wci.
> 
> I enjoyed Mr Prince from alabasta sanji will never be that great in my eyes.
> 
> Wano is Zoros space and he is doing wonders.


Oda said he wanted to finish the story in 5 years before coming up with the Shichibukai. 
Supernova were never planned until right before Sabody when an editor suggested it.

Things don’t always go according to Oda’s plans or what he wants to do or says initially.


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## Vivo Diez (Feb 6, 2021)

I just know whatever Zoro fans bet for usually ends up being untrue, so I'm betting my money on Kidd


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## NotTommy (Feb 6, 2021)

It ain't looking too good for those of us that voted Kidd but I still have faith. Luffy will be out of the picture (not really) for a while, now it's Law, Kid and Zoro's time to give it their all until Luffy's back.


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## MrPopo (Feb 6, 2021)

MrPopo said:


> I'm gonna back kidd on this one

Reactions: Funny 10


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## Oda Report (Feb 6, 2021)

Sloan said:


> Things don’t always go according to Oda’s plans or what he wants to do or says initially.



Of course however there are things that oda has been consistent with in his story. 

We will just have to sit back and see if Oda got bad mother Fucker labeled on his wallet.


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## Admiral Akanezumi (Feb 6, 2021)

Why is it Kidd versus Zoro though; isn’t Kidd supposed to be Luffy’s rival for the PK title?

Reactions: Funny 9


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## Danyboy (Feb 6, 2021)

Rob the Zombie said:


> Why is it Kidd versus Zoro though; isn’t Kidd supposed to be Luffy’s rival for the PK title?


But Zoro is stronger then Luffy. If Kidd can beat Zoro, he can luffy too


Vivo Diez said:


> I just know whatever Zoro fans bet for usually ends up being untrue, so I'm betting my money on Kidd


Yah, i remember those delusional Zoro stans betting on him fighting Kaido and cutting him


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## ice demon slayer (Feb 6, 2021)

ice demon slayer said:


> Oda will wank Zoro like  he never did before. . I feel bad lol


It aged well

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Admiral Akanezumi (Feb 6, 2021)

Danyboy said:


> But Zoro is stronger then Luffy. If Kidd can beat Zoro, he can luffy too


Becoming PK is more difficult than just becoming strong; that was established very early in the manga.  I guess that PK ship has sailed for Kidd already


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## Ssjloke (Feb 6, 2021)

Kidd>Zolo

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Jin22 (Feb 6, 2021)

maupp said:


>


Lol how'd I miss this one


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## rext1 (Feb 6, 2021)

Zoro will look like the MC when Wano concludes.

EOS Zoro vs EOS Blackbeard threads will be common.

Reactions: Like 2 | Funny 2


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## fenaker (Feb 10, 2021)

Midd : you came to watch me beat Kaido
Seconds later
Midd is jumping like a clown and doing nothing

Reactions: Funny 3


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## Redline (Feb 10, 2021)

kidd mid diff

Reactions: Lewd 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Redline (Feb 10, 2021)

ooops sorry my bad its a zoro win no doubt!


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## Beast (Feb 10, 2021)

Redline said:


> ooops sorry my bad its a zoro win no doubt!


You’re allowed to change your vote for the time being.

go and vote Zoro, tell your friends to vote for him too

Reactions: Like 1


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## A Optimistic (Feb 10, 2021)

Can't believe 40 people voted for the weaker character.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 4


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## killfox (Feb 11, 2021)

Kid basically made a life like creature out of metal and is riding in it like a gundam. 

Based on the sheer volume of metal Kid can control at once it seems like he'd take Zorro mid diff based on matchup advantage.

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## January (Feb 11, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> Can't believe 40 people voted for the weaker character.


Well, you can say they were Optimistic


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## Sloan (Feb 11, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> Can't believe 40 people voted for the weaker character.


Some people like to live life on the edge

Reactions: Funny 1


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## ice demon slayer (Feb 11, 2021)

Zoro mid diff atm

Im serious

Reactions: Like 2


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## Redline (Feb 11, 2021)

Magneto kidd is too stronk for zorino! his  df alone make the difference, not to mention his conqueror soul


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## Firo (Feb 11, 2021)

For people who talk about how great this dude is, You’d think they’d go along with the bet. No faith in your grandmaster. Frauds.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 2


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## Quipchaque (Feb 11, 2021)

I honestly have no idea. Could See it either way. Slightly leaning towards Kidd though. Gonna gonna with him.

Reactions: Like 1 | Friendly 1


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## Beast (Feb 11, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> Can't believe 40 people voted for the weaker character.


Got a few traitors in there, they will soon be kicked out and join the ZKK by force.


Firo said:


> For people who talk about how great this dude is, You’d think they’d go along with the bet. No faith in your grandmaster. Frauds.


Gotta get this to triple digits. About to make history bruh.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## A Optimistic (Feb 11, 2021)

Beast said:


> Got a few traitors in there, they will soon be kicked out and join the ZKK by force.
> 
> Gotta get this to triple digits. About to make history bruh.



name drop them


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## Beast (Feb 11, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> name drop them


Not the time yet, a collection has been made already. The traitors have been spotted and are under constant watch.

Reactions: Funny 3


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## NotTommy (Feb 11, 2021)

I voted Kid and I'll stick with that choice till the arc's over. If I lose, i lose but I think Kid still has a shot. No way he'll come out of this below Killer, that's for sure.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## ice demon slayer (Feb 11, 2021)

77 people knows the truth

Zoro bodies Kidd

Reactions: Winner 1 | Optimistic 1


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## Redline (Feb 11, 2021)

ice demon slayer said:


> 77 people knows the truth
> 
> Zoro bodies Kidd


Yes zoro would definitely like to bang kid But that ain't happen my man is straight ok, I am sorry to break your fantasies zorobros but Your only hope left is Sanji


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## ice demon slayer (Feb 11, 2021)

Redline said:


> Yes zoro He would definitely like to bang kid But that ain't happen my man is straight ok, I am sorry to break your fantasies zorobros but Your only hope left is Sanji

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Redline (Feb 11, 2021)

ice demon slayer said:


>






A Optimistic said:


> name drop them


here  a pic of Optimus prime trying to escape reality check!

Reactions: Funny 1


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## LordVinsmoke (Feb 11, 2021)

its obvious kidd will be stronger by eos but u know people gonna vote for zoro

Reactions: Agree 1 | Optimistic 8


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## Beast (Feb 11, 2021)

vote people 
Votes will be stopped at 100 on either characters. (Preferably Zoro)

Reactions: GODA 1


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## muchentuchen (Feb 11, 2021)

Beast said:


> vote people
> Votes will be stopped at 100 on either characters. (Preferably Zoro) ZORO ZORO ZORO ZORO ZORO ZORO ZORO ZORO ZORO ZORO ZORO ZORO.


You're in the corridor of the gates of Zoro. And this song is playing.


You're hired!

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Quipchaque (Feb 11, 2021)

Beast said:


> Not the time yet, a collection has been made already. The traitors have been spotted and are under constant watch.


 oi oi. stop peeking through my window.

Reactions: Funny 2


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## January (Feb 11, 2021)

Beast said:


> Got a few traitors in there, they will soon be kicked out and join the ZKK by force.





Beast said:


> Not the time yet, a collection has been made already. The traitors have been spotted and are under constant watch.

Reactions: Funny 7


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## Mercurial (Feb 11, 2021)

Mute post



PS I love Kidd, but at this point it's blatant that the strength hierarchy is Rufy > Zoro >> Kidd/Law > Killer. No shame though. They are the strongest current pirates bar Rayleigh and Yonkos. And maybe Marco.

Reactions: Informative 1 | Optimistic 2


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## A Optimistic (Feb 12, 2021)

How are you gonna create a bet thread and then get yourself banned before the outcome is decided?

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 5


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## ho11ow (Feb 12, 2021)

What happened? Why is he get banned?

Reactions: Like 1


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## MrPopo (Feb 12, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> How are you gonna create a bet thread and then get yourself banned before the outcome is decided?


He'll be back

Reactions: Agree 3 | Friendly 1


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## Vivo Diez (Feb 12, 2021)

A beast can hibernate, but he always comes back stronger and more ferocious

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1 | Friendly 1


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## Redline (Feb 12, 2021)

The only powa stans has to avoid the truth is spread is banning or cast out, all a Stans need to do is whine at his Jimmy Jimmy pal lol..but we know the cowards they are anyway


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## Quipchaque (Feb 12, 2021)

Mercurial said:


> Mute post
> 
> 
> 
> PS I love Kidd, but at this point it's blatant that the strength hierarchy is Rufy > Zoro >> Kidd/Law > Killer. No shame though. They are the strongest current pirates bar Rayleigh and Yonkos. And maybe Marco.



Scopper, Mihawk..?


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## muchentuchen (Feb 12, 2021)

Free my niqqa Beast


A Optimistic said:


> How are you gonna create a bet thread and then get yourself banned before the outcome is decided?


He joined the Zoro gang right at the end and died an honoroburu deatho using the way of the samurai's seppuku.

Reactions: Funny 6


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## Quipchaque (Feb 12, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> How are you gonna create a bet thread and then get yourself banned before the outcome is decided?



Can't say I am surprised tbh.

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Feb 15, 2021)




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## Kingslayer (Feb 15, 2021)

Yo just saw this thread but hear  my facts

Zoro will surpass Kidd  , If he does not attain blackblade by end of wano i think we can forget he should be compared to Eustass .With recent facts coming up on Enma , I see it more clear Zoro will surpass Oden its quite simple and he will unlock Enma's potential which is actually holding him back

Not a zoro fan here but if Zoro does following thing  then he will surpass Kid in my opinion :

1. Attains full potential of Enma and makes his blade black .

2. Cuts Kaido to the point he is nerfed against  luffy .

3. Surpass Oden Kozuki and attain COC .

Kid in my opinion is Vegeta of One piece , has a losing charm even  with top potential . However Oda better need to hype his devil fruit and we barely saw anything about this guy .

However right now Kidd is not looking good shape but Oda will spring surprise any time .

Reactions: Creative 1 | Lewd 1


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## Beast (Feb 16, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> How are you gonna create a bet thread and then get yourself banned before the outcome is decided?


I didn’t know Wano was finished?
If I’m wrong about this thread, I’ll probably start reading two piece like the rest of you.


ho11ow said:


> What happened? Why is he get banned?



Haters...



MrPopo said:


> He'll be back





Vivo Diez said:


> A beast can hibernate, but he always comes back stronger and more ferocious







@Donquixote Doflamingo 
As funny as GoL is... he is the worst tier specialist there is... I’m sure the fat bastard has an account on here somewhere.  

@Dark Shadow 
Come on now, you’re getting two people mixed up... Zoro will surpass Law, who will die this arc.

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Great Potato (Feb 16, 2021)

You posted a video of somebody defending Kid and saying that he still ranks him above Zoro? Is this your way of saying you've switched sides to Team Kid?


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Feb 16, 2021)

Great Potato said:


> You posted a video of somebody defending Kid and saying that he still ranks him above Zoro? Is this your way of saying you've switched sides to Team Kid?



As Beast pointed out the man is a Tier Specialist 

Anything KOL says about power levels should be instantly ignored.

So if he says Kidd>Zoro you know its more like Zoro>>>>Kidd

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 5 | Informative 1


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## Bobybobster (Feb 16, 2021)

things just keep getting worse for kidd...

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Furinji Saiga (Feb 16, 2021)

The only thing Kid has over Zoro is Kings Haki, the greatest fodder clearing ability in existence. And even that might change as this arc progresses with all the hints and obvious foreshadowing.

In terms of
Relevance( Zoro has had way more focus than Kid, Killer, Law in Wano )
Showcase( Dragon Blaze making Kaido shiver in fear, Meme crying out to dodge, Zoro's Tatsumaki to overcome Kaido's own Tatsumaki and cut him all while having to help defend his captain...)
Future hype/foreshadowing (Mastering Enma so it becomes a balanced sword to infuse his Ryou with, Matching if not surpassing Oden's  feat, Asura, ZKK possible ending )

It is not even close.
IMO the reason why Kid and Killer are even here is to make Luffy and Zoro stand out more.  

And the only reason Law is here is because he in debt to Strawhat for saving his ass and fulfilling his desires of taking down Doffy. Thats why Luffy and Zoro boss him around. Not saying that they will not have big moments, its just that to me Oda has made It  obvious who the heavy hitters are, Luffy and Zoro. The ones who actually have had focus on their Ryou training to punch through/cut down Kaido.

Reactions: Like 4 | Agree 1 | Winner 1 | Creative 1 | Disagree 1


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## Kingslayer (Feb 16, 2021)

I will judge kidd  how he takes on Hybrid Kaido . I am pretty confident Oda will hype him up considering luffy is out of order .

But i am certain Zoro will surpass Kidd by end of this arc hard facts  i am with Zoro fans on this one . We have decent proof his Enma will gain full potential and surpass Oden by end of the wano .

I am certain Kidd is nowhere near to Oden's level btw . Kidd is not MC and Zoro will shine more in this arc .

@Beast


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## Sieves (Feb 16, 2021)

Furinji Saiga said:


> The only thing Kid has over Zoro is Kings Haki, the greatest fodder clearing ability in existence. And even that might change as this arc progresses with all the hints and obvious foreshadowing.
> 
> In terms of
> Relevance( Zoro has had way more focus than Kid, Killer, Law in Wano )
> ...


Y’all gotta get me some of that two piece

last I checked law is assisting Luffy.. and now Zoro needs his help too, not the other way around. Oda just writes it cute because he doesn’t want it to seem like the main characters need extra help (they do) 

Then there’s the scabbards who would be collateral damage right about now if it weren’t for Law being allied with Luffy.

I still have Law outperforming Kid and Zoro.

Reactions: Disagree 3 | Optimistic 1


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## LordVinsmoke (Mar 11, 2021)

Kidd lost  some potential but i still think he can beat zoro


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## Beast (Mar 11, 2021)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> As Beast pointed out the man is a Tier Specialist
> 
> Anything KOL says about power levels should be instantly ignored.
> 
> So if he says Kidd>Zoro you know its more like Zoro>>>>Kidd


This is more accurate then anything King of Lighting has said about power levels lol.
guy is a big hater as well.


Dark Shadow said:


> I will judge kidd  how he takes on Hybrid Kaido . I am pretty confident Oda will hype him up considering luffy is out of order .
> 
> But i am certain Zoro will surpass Kidd by end of this arc hard facts  i am with Zoro fans on this one . We have decent proof his Enma will gain full potential and surpass Oden by end of the wano .
> 
> ...


Lol, Zoro isn’t surpassing him if he isn’t already stronger then him.



Furinji Saiga said:


> The only thing Kid has over Zoro is Kings Haki, the greatest fodder clearing ability in existence. And even that might change as this arc progresses with all the hints and obvious foreshadowing.
> 
> In terms of
> Relevance( Zoro has had way more focus than Kid, Killer, Law in Wano )
> ...


Probably the most interesting take... but Why would Oda have Zoro Outperform then both and not captain for captain, FM for FM.


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## Isazi (Mar 11, 2021)

Both are embarrassingly weak so it's hard to tell. All I know is they will both be Luffys bitch at the end of Wano.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Mar 13, 2021)

this thread didnt age well

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


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## Kingslayer (Mar 13, 2021)

Kidd could be luffy's shiki , i can kidd challenging him time to time and ends up losing. 

Kidd needs serious hype so far i am not happy with his portrayal .Zoro has done better so far .


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## Turrin (Mar 31, 2021)

Deleting accounts is fairly meaningless when someone has multiple dupes


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## A Optimistic (Mar 31, 2021)

This thread gets funnier and funnier over time.

Reactions: Funny 3 | Winner 1


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## Lee-Sensei (Mar 31, 2021)

Beast said:


> This is a bet thread for the insensible Zoro wank, what way to kill it then to embarrass all the tards at once.
> 
> the bet is quite simple, I’m claiming that at the END of Wano, when the battles are said and done, There will be no denying that Kidd is stronger then Zoro. Simple.
> 
> ...


I want it to be Kid, but it’s probably going to be Zoro.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Friendly 1


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## muchentuchen (Mar 31, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> This thread gets funnier and funnier over time.


Aging like fine wine

Reactions: Funny 5


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## xmysticgohanx (Mar 31, 2021)

As always, Zoro wins

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Beast (Apr 1, 2021)

Lee-Sensei said:


> I want it to be Kid, but it’s probably going to be Zoro.


The game just getting started!


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## Furinji Saiga (Apr 4, 2021)



Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 1 | Funny 9 | Winner 2


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## Stringer (Apr 4, 2021)

And to think his lackluster performance on the roof so far is _in spite_ of having a ton of prep

Kidd legit gets bisected early against Zoro if he doesn't make a quick stop at the junkyard before going to the battlefield lmao

I honestly feel bad for Kidd fans, although to his credit his participation against Big Mom this chapter was kinda cool

Reactions: Like 4


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Apr 4, 2021)

47 VOTES FOR KIDD

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 7


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## Etherborn (Apr 4, 2021)

The Kidd fan bullying thread. By Kidd fans, for Kidd fans. 

I said from the beginning this was a bad idea, but no one ever listens to me.

Reactions: Funny 12 | Disagree 1


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## muchentuchen (Apr 4, 2021)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> 47 VOTES FOR KIDD


All according to plan. My boy has been summoned to assassinate the thread and Kidd.

*Spoiler*: __

Reactions: Funny 1 | Winner 3


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## Canute87 (Apr 4, 2021)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> 47 VOTES FOR KIDD


this is a thread from 2020.

Reactions: Funny 2


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## KBD (Apr 4, 2021)

Very stupid to think that the first mate of Killer pirates Euseless Midd could hold a  candle to the MCs first  mate

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 9


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Apr 4, 2021)

Canute87 said:


> this is a thread from 2020.



Cheap Excuse i could of told you back in 2009 who was stronger.

Reactions: Agree 3 | Funny 2


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## icyBankai (Apr 4, 2021)

Betting against Zoro right now is like betting against Tesla in early 2020...

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 1


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## xmysticgohanx (Apr 4, 2021)

Luffy
Zoro
Law
Kid
Killer
Apoo

Reactions: Like 1


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## Sieves (Apr 5, 2021)

Furinji Saiga said:


>


Kid forfeit

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 5


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## IHateAnnoyingJerks (Apr 5, 2021)

The people that vote for Kid aren't Kid fans, I doubt there are that many Kid fans around.  Probably just anti-Zoro bros.

Reactions: Like 4 | Agree 1 | Funny 1 | Dislike 1


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## TheMoffinMan (Apr 5, 2021)

I've been in the Zoro = Kid camp for ahwile. My expectations was that while Zoro excelled at offense and would be one of the major players at putting Kaido down, Oda would have Kid serve as the main tank, taking on and blocking what the Yonkos would throw at them. Basically: Kid the tank, Law the support, Luffy & Zoro the dps and Killer filling in where needed.

But now with Oda chosing to have Zoro fill the defence role as well that comes crumbling down. At this point it's questionable what Kid's even doing there. His only real feat was building a box for Zeus and knocking BM back. Honestly you could just replace him with Franky and no one would have noticed a difference. 

Quite disappointing tbh, but guess Oda simply never had a big plan for Kid in the first place. He'll just be another silver medalist.

Reactions: Like 4


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## Shanks (Apr 5, 2021)

Why is everyone still downplaying kid? Zoro is looking much better, and maybe Zolo win this bet, but Kid isn't going to be far behind. It's clear that RT5 is end game material after the latest chapter.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Beast (Apr 5, 2021)

Furinji Saiga said:


>


Goes to show who the bigger man is!
Give credit where it is due!




Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> 47 VOTES FOR KIDD


More like 7, losing men by the day.

unlike the church of Zolo, traitors won’t be allowed back at the end of arc!




Etherborn said:


> The Kidd fan bullying thread. By Kidd fans, for Kidd fans.
> 
> I said from the beginning this was a bad idea, but no one ever listens to me.


What would you say if I told you... the real fight is just beginning?

95 Voters, 35 traitors!
This one is for the history books @Kinjin 
I better receive a prize like no other for facing the world and the legion!

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Esdese (Apr 5, 2021)

I love how the recent chapter broke the brains of all the OL zoro hater shit lords
the cope levels are crazy.

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 2 | Winner 1


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## ice demon slayer (Apr 5, 2021)

Zoro beats kidd and killer at the same time

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1 | Funny 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Beast (Apr 5, 2021)

ice demon slayer said:


> Zoro beats kidd and killer at the same time


Zoro can’t even get his sword back from a fox.
Come on now, Zoro vs more then one opponent isn’t a good look bruh.



Esdese said:


> I love how the recent chapter broke the brains of all the OL zoro hater shit lords
> the cope levels are crazy.


Lower tier Zorotard with no positive ratings, begone

Reactions: Agree 2


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## killfox (Apr 5, 2021)

No one talks about how Kid took a BM punch direct to the face .

Reactions: Like 1


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Apr 5, 2021)

killfox said:


> No one talks about how Kid took a BM punch direct to the face .



Because no one cares

Reactions: Funny 7


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## LordVinsmoke (Apr 5, 2021)

imo Kid is A YFM+ already while zoro is a yfm

@Beast if i lose what do do?

Reactions: Like 1


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## Great Potato (Apr 5, 2021)

Etherborn said:


> The Kidd fan bullying thread. By Kidd fans, for Kidd fans.
> 
> I said from the beginning this was a bad idea, but no one ever listens to me.



Nonsense, this thread is the raw Captain Kid mentality!

Eustass Kid always challenges the top of the food chain and the Zoro Bros are the most powerful faction on the forum.

Eustass Kid lives life as the underdog facing the odds without regret and enduring the punishment without ever bending the knee.

Eustass Kid is "Live or Die" philosophy, this thread is weeding out the turncoats who didn't have the conviction to stay true to the cause.



The only regrets will be those who dropped out when stocks were low who won't reap the reward when the stocks are high.​

Reactions: Like 2 | Funny 5 | Winner 2 | GODA 1


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## killfox (Apr 5, 2021)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Because no one cares


Is taking a yonkou attack to the face not impressive anymore?


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## Etherborn (Apr 5, 2021)

Great Potato said:


> Nonsense, this thread is the raw Captain Kid mentality!
> 
> Eustass Kid always challenges the top of the food chain and the Zoro Bros are the most powerful faction on the forum.
> 
> ...


So this thread is essentially identifying us as either masochists or non-masochists? Well that changes everything! Think I’ll take a screenshot of the poll results for laughs if that’s what’s happening.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Jujubatman12 (Apr 5, 2021)

killfox said:


> Is taking a yonkou attack to the face not impressive anymore?


No They been taking attacks from youkou since the fight started

Reactions: GODA 1


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## Beast (Apr 6, 2021)

LordRice said:


> imo Kid is A YFM+ already while zoro is a yfm
> 
> @Beast if i lose what do do?


You’ve won already, there is no losing for us Kidd Killers, only lessons!

And the great turning point is upon us!

Reactions: Like 1


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## Brian (Apr 6, 2021)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> 47 VOTES FOR KIDD



Theres some dupes who voted


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## Samehadaman (Apr 8, 2021)

Wait Kid *clearly* stronger than Zoro? Do you know these forums at all.

Kid could kill Zoro 1v1 is still would not be clearly accepted he is stronger (and vice versa).
It's like religious wars here. And Zoro has more fans so he will win any opinion poll on the matter.

I dont think Kid will be clearly stronger than Zoro, but even if I did, I would never make that bet on these terms.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Apr 11, 2021)

Every week this thread becomes funnier    

Kidds only chance is to off panel BigMom. Good luck with that

Reactions: Like 1


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## truedetectiveseason2intro (Apr 11, 2021)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Every week this thread becomes funnier
> 
> Kidds only chance is to off panel BigMom. Good luck with that


wano is about to end?


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## Jujubatman12 (Apr 11, 2021)

truedetectiveseason2intro said:


> wano is about to end?


You think Zoro staying down? Lmfao Zoro still hoing to get more feats


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## truedetectiveseason2intro (Apr 11, 2021)

Jujubatman12 said:


> You think Zoro staying down? Lmfao Zoro still hoing to get more feats


Zoro is not staying down


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## Great Potato (Apr 11, 2021)

Kid's in a strong position right now. 

While Zoro and Law have been retired from the Rooftop on Luffy's orders; Kid is still in a good fighting condition and has gone on to challenge Big Mom, and we also just learned that CoC which Kid also possesses is the key to victory against the Yonko. Oda's been saving him for this moment.

Big Mom is arguably the most dangerous person on the island right now because unlike Kaido she is still relatively fresh, and she probably just powered up with a new and improved homie which is what the chapter seemed to be leading towards. If Kid has a strong performance against her and starts dishing out damage then that's a massive win for him, and if he actually pulls it off and wins then he's walking out of the arc with MVP status. 

I'd say slim chance that Oda has Kid accomplish nothing, he kept him up there for a reason.

Reactions: Like 4 | Agree 2


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## Oberyn Nymeros (Apr 11, 2021)

This bet is still ongoing and my money is still on Kid.

Reactions: Optimistic 2


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Apr 11, 2021)

Great Potato said:


> Kid's in a strong position right now.
> 
> While Zoro and Law have been retired from the Rooftop on Luffy's orders; Kid is still in a good fighting condition and has gone on to challenge Big Mom, and we also just learned that CoC which Kid also possesses is the key to victory against the Yonko. Oda's been saving him for this moment.
> 
> ...



Problem is most if not all of Kids accomplishments will be off panel due to the Luffy show.

So sure Kidd might get some hype by us going back to Big mom and shes actually bleeding and hurt which is a great feat but pretty impossible to evaluate as higher then Zoro.

God forbid a heavily weakened Zoro still takes out King or gets back up to cut kaidou again

Reactions: Funny 1 | Winner 2


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## Great Potato (Apr 11, 2021)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Problem is most if not all of Kids accomplishments will be off panel due to the Luffy show.



I don't understand the logic of Kid's fight getting off-paneled because of the Luffy show.

Oda's MO is to showcase and wrap up all of the other events going down on the island before resolving the main battle, it's not a part of the arc he's off-paneled before. Luffy show just means he's running things against Kaido now, but it doesn't mean we're not going to see the fall of the Calamities, the Flying 6, or Kid + Killer's bout with Big Mom.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Apr 11, 2021)

Great Potato said:


> I don't understand the logic of Kid's fight getting off-paneled because of the Luffy show.
> 
> Oda's MO is to showcase and wrap up all of the other events going down on the island before resolving the main battle, it's not a part of the arc he's off-paneled before. Luffy show just means he's running things against Kaido now, but it doesn't mean we're not going to see the fall of the Calamities, the Flying 6, or Kid + Killer's bout with Big Mom.



Luffy show means we get fishman island all over again.

All the strawhats got fights right?

And by fights i mean about 1 page each of them one shoting there opponents while Luffy got a multi chapter fight vs Hodi. Same shit happened in Dressrosa mind you just to a slightly lesser extent as at least Zoro got a full chapter to himself.

Sorry if my faith in oda is not particularly high in this regard. So yea sure we might see Franky Radical Beam Sasaki and finishing him off, but i don't expect it to be more then a few pages though same goes for Kidd and killer but we shall see.


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## LordVinsmoke (Apr 18, 2021)

Kid Takes away  Enma Then Proceeds to enfuse CoC and Oden spirit

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Beast (Apr 19, 2021)

Samehadaman said:


> Wait Kid *clearly* stronger than Zoro? Do you know these forums at all.
> 
> Kid could kill Zoro 1v1 is still would not be clearly accepted he is stronger (and vice versa).
> It's like religious wars here. And Zoro has more fans so he will win any opinion poll on the matter.
> ...


Poll was cancelled.
The chapters will speak for themselves.

It’s okay if you don’t have the balls for it buddy, I’ll do it for the both of us!




Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Every week this thread becomes funnier
> 
> Kidds only chance is to off panel BigMom. Good luck with that


Once the arc is over... you will ask me, how did I KNOW Kidd would come out stronger then Zoro 100%. 





The record has been set, 100+ tards about to be proven wrong by just one user. Glory is coming!

Reactions: Funny 1 | Winner 1 | Friendly 1 | Optimistic 1


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## fenaker (Apr 21, 2021)

Beast said:


> Poll was cancelled.
> The chapters will speak for themselves.
> 
> It’s okay if you don’t have the balls for it buddy, I’ll do it for the both of us!
> ...


Better if You don't run away mid stan

Reactions: Funny 3


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## Pirao (Apr 22, 2021)

Kidd's totally about to solo BM guyz, honest


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## LordVinsmoke (Apr 22, 2021)

I Thought We Couldnt See Who Voted


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## Pirao (Apr 26, 2021)

Op got banned, so... ded thread

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## Mercurial (Apr 26, 2021)

Pirao said:


> Op got banned, so... ded thread


Thread was dead already anyway.

It died here.



No greater admission of inferiority for a cocky spoiled brat like Kidd than him thanking Zoro for saving his life by doing what he didn't even dare to try to do.

Reactions: Winner 3 | Tier Specialist 1


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## convict (Apr 26, 2021)

Bunch of hullabaloo in here but we all know at arc's end Kid fans are going to say he is CLEARLY stronger and Zoro fans are going to say Zoro is CLEARLY stronger and we are back to the status quo.

Reactions: Like 4


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## Kinjin (Oct 24, 2021)

Bump in light of current events.

Was the change vote option intended? @Beast If not, I can remove it.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## MrPopo (Oct 24, 2021)

Beast said:


> This is a bet thread for the insensible Zoro wank, what way to kill it then to embarrass all the tards at once.
> 
> the bet is quite simple, I’m claiming that at the END of Wano, when the battles are said and done, There will be no denying that Kidd is stronger then Zoro. Simple.
> 
> ...





Kinjin said:


> Bump in light of current events.
> 
> Was the change vote option intended? @Beast If not, I can remove it.


It wasnt

Reactions: Like 1


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## ShadoLord (Oct 24, 2021)

hypothetically

if Kidd beats Meme with the assistance of Law

and 

Zoro slays Kaido over the sky in the capital

Who's got the better feats?


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## Firo (Oct 24, 2021)

Zoro said:


> hypothetically
> 
> if Kidd beats Meme with the assistance of Law
> 
> ...


If Kaido is damn near incapacitated then Kid. If Kaido is still able to move and deal damage then Zoro.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## KBD (Oct 24, 2021)

Firo said:


> If Kaido is damn near incapacitated then Kid. If Kaido is still able to move and deal damage then Zoro.


hahahaha wtf man you actually voted for Midd, please change your vote, I dont want you to leave 

Edit: no wait wtf wrong quote  as if you would do that, but for what it's worth I don't want you to leave either. 

I meant @MrPopo Im also seeing all kinds of other folks who have no business being on the wrong side of one piece history  

@Shanks @NotTommy @Perrin JESUS MOST OF THAT LIST 

how do you think this bet will be judged, huh? by what jury? its going to be full of officer Zoro supporters. Come to your senses before its too late!!!

Reactions: Funny 4


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## Firo (Oct 24, 2021)

O


KBD said:


> hahahaha wtf man you actually voted for Midd, please change your vote, I dont want you to leave


i did. I had too much to drink.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Oct 24, 2021)

Forget Zoro

Killer>Kidd at this point.

Reactions: Funny 4 | Winner 1


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## KBD (Oct 24, 2021)

Firo said:


> O
> 
> i did. I had too much to drink.


as long as you are ashamed of how you acted while intoxicated and are ready to do the right thing


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## MrPopo (Oct 24, 2021)

KBD said:


> hahahaha wtf man you actually voted for Midd, please change your vote, I dont want you to leave
> 
> Edit: no wait wtf wrong quote  as if you would do that, but for what it's worth I don't want you to leave either.
> 
> ...


No matter the outcome I'll just admit I was right

Reactions: Funny 1


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## KBD (Oct 24, 2021)

MrPopo said:


> No matter the outcome I'll just admit I was right


poor MrPopo  thinking he can bargain with the legion

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 1


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## Great Potato (Oct 24, 2021)

Zoro said:


> hypothetically
> 
> if Kidd beats Meme with the assistance of Law
> 
> ...



If Zoro kills Kaido it's only because Kid softened him up with that Slam Gibson first.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 3


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## ShadoLord (Oct 24, 2021)

Great Potato said:


> If Zoro kills Kaido it's only because Kid softened him up with that Slam Gibson first.


Kidd eating that Mama Raid was due to that slight dissonance in distance gauging caused by the constant fear factor of Zoro's dragon blaze etched into Meme's spirit.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Kinjin (Oct 24, 2021)

MrPopo said:


> It wasnt


I'm not sure.


Beast said:


> You’re allowed to change your vote for the time being.





Beast said:


> vote people
> Votes will be stopped at 100 on either characters. (Preferably Zoro)


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## MrPopo (Oct 24, 2021)

Kinjin said:


> I'm not sure.


Well 100 votes have been made on Zoro


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## Firo (Oct 24, 2021)

KBD said:


> as long as you are ashamed of how you acted while intoxicated and are ready to do the right thing


Bro I changed my vote immediately.

Reactions: Funny 2 | Winner 1


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## Great Potato (Oct 24, 2021)

Firo said:


> Bro I changed my vote immediately.



Looks like we have a real Hawkins on our hands here.

Reactions: Funny 7


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## Ekkologix (Oct 24, 2021)

zoro can beat opponents stronger than kidd can beat

but in a 1v1 between them kidd's DF gives him pretty good advantage over zoro

will be hard win  but I think zoro takes it

also kid needs setup and prep with scrap and stuff
zoro doesnt

Reactions: Like 1


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## A Optimistic (Oct 24, 2021)

There should be no option to change votes. What kind of nonsense is this?


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## MrPopo (Oct 24, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> There should be no option to change votes. What kind of nonsense is this?


A chance for salvation

Reactions: Winner 1


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## A Optimistic (Oct 24, 2021)

MrPopo said:


> A chance for salvation



stick to your original vote, coward


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## MrPopo (Oct 24, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> stick to your original vote, coward


I am

Reactions: Like 1


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## T.D.A (Oct 24, 2021)

Zoro still.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Oda Report (Oct 24, 2021)

Lose em Kid!

Abandon ya stupid DREAMS!

-Sanji 4Kids Dub


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## TheWiggian (Oct 24, 2021)



Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 9 | Winner 1


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## xmysticgohanx (Oct 25, 2021)

Zoro wins still. Kid needs advanced kings haki. Zoro will likely get it tho too. So Zoro wins

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Jay. (Oct 25, 2021)

okay but does zoro have "advanced coc" now?


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## Shanks (Oct 25, 2021)

KBD said:


> hahahaha wtf man you actually voted for Midd, please change your vote, I dont want you to leave
> 
> Edit: no wait wtf wrong quote  as if you would do that, but for what it's worth I don't want you to leave either.
> 
> ...


Whats the bet again? Lol

So I invested in Kid coin back then, so I will stick with it. Eitherway, it will be endless arguments between two side and no one will admit defeat so, I don't think anyone will loose.

Kid will beat Big Mom with alot of help, but he will get the most credit. Zoro will at least high dif King, so it's going to be very hard to judge without favouritism.

I think the fairest way would be let me the one and only judge


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## xmysticgohanx (Oct 25, 2021)

Jay. said:


> okay but does zoro have "advanced coc" now?


neither do, well zoro has it for one attack. currently zoro wins
when both get it, zoro wins
when one has it and can use it well, that person wins


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## Jay. (Oct 25, 2021)

i'm pretty sure we have no idea what ashura is yet


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## KBD (Oct 25, 2021)

Shanks said:


> Whats the bet again? Lol
> 
> So I invested in Kid coin back then, so I will stick with it. Eitherway, it will be endless arguments between two side and no one will admit defeat so, I don't think anyone will loose.
> 
> ...





Beast said:


> I will bet My whole account in exchange for 10 or more Zorotards, to bet their Avi and the little member tag under the user name (Usually well known member). Need at least 10 people or my account is no longer on the line.
> 
> so, sign up if you think the grandmaster has a chance of being stronger then Kidd at the end of Wano.
> registering will be Open till end of Wano, however you can not take back your vote, once it’s been made. Anyone else that wants to bet AGAINST Zoro, can make their own bet, I’ll just put it at the bottom if I remember/ see it.
> ...


seems a little bit difficult to do though. also there isn't a tenfold of Zoro fans more so it can't be the same.. even though, unless further specified by the voter of Midd this should logically be the default bet.


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## Beast (Oct 25, 2021)

Kinjin said:


> Bump in light of current events.
> 
> Was the change vote option intended? @Beast If not, I can remove it.


Nah, don’t let them switch sides!!


oooh the panic in their keyboards… the unease in their replies. Glorious!




KBD said:


> seems a little bit difficult to do though. also there isn't a tenfold of Zoro fans more so it can't be the same.. even though, unless further specified by the voter of Midd this should logically be the default bet.


Not sure what you mean… the bet thread is me vs Z boyz not kidd voters vs Zoro voters.

@Firo 
Your vote was never going to be counted, I’ve got plans in measure to make sure you end up on the losing side… every single time.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## KBD (Oct 25, 2021)

Beast said:


> Nah, don’t let them switch sides!!
> 
> 
> oooh the panic in their keyboards… the unease in their replies. Glorious!
> ...


So the poll doesn't indicate betting?


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## Firo (Oct 25, 2021)

Beast said:


> @Firo
> Your vote was never going to be counted, I’ve got plans in measure to make sure you end up on the losing side… every single time.


As long as it’s not Kid’s side then I’m completely fine with that.


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## 青月光 (Oct 25, 2021)

Really curious as to how this will end up


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## Beast (Oct 25, 2021)

KBD said:


> So the poll doesn't indicate betting?


It does and then you read the OP and it should be a little bit more clear.



Firo said:


> As long as it’s not Kid’s side then I’m completely fine with that.


I said I would make sure you would lose… that means you’re with the Zboyz.


Alibaba Saluja said:


> Really curious as to how this will end up


Gonna make history.


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## KBD (Oct 25, 2021)

Beast said:


> It does and then you read the OP and it should be a little bit more clear.
> 
> 
> I said I would make sure you would lose… that means you’re with the Zboyz.
> ...


I have read it a few times by now. I see that Kid fans are supposed to make their own bets, so a vote for Kid doesn't really mean a god damn thing?


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## Beast (Oct 25, 2021)

KBD said:


> I have read it a few times by now. I see that Kid fans are supposed to make their own bets, so a vote for Kid doesn't really mean a god damn thing?


Nah, it doesn’t.
this bet thread is more Me alone vs Zoro fans.
Wouldn’t matter anyway, couple traitors and spies in the Kidd side anyway. I can only think of 5 users that haven’t changed or switched sides on kidd.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## KBD (Oct 25, 2021)

To everyone who only voted for Kidd and didn't make a bet... 

You're a bunch of PUSSIES

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Beast (Oct 25, 2021)

KBD said:


> To everyone who only voted for Kidd and didn't make a bet...
> 
> You're a bunch of PUSSIES


They put their bets on me dawg

Reactions: Funny 1


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## KBD (Oct 25, 2021)

Beast said:


> the bet is quite simple, I’m claiming that at the END of Wano, when the battles are said and done, There will be no denying that Kidd is stronger then Zoro. Simple.
> 
> I will bet My whole account in exchange for 10 or more Zorotards, to bet their Avi and the little member tag under the user name (Usually well known member). Need at least 10 people or my account is no longer on the line.





Beast said:


> I will bet My whole account in exchange for 10 or more Zorotards





Beast said:


> 10 *or more* Zorotards



Zoro bros... we were more dyslexic signing up for this than Kaido when he made his SMILE deal with Doflamingo

Reactions: Funny 1


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## KBD (Oct 25, 2021)

I still believe in the grandmaster but holy fuck is this a bad deal. 

Who would have thought that the Legion would be ready to run off the cliff to their deaths like lemmings, had we only read the fine print...

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Beast (Oct 25, 2021)

KBD said:


> Zoro bros... we were more dyslexic signing up for this than Kaido when he made his SMILE deal with Doflamingo





KBD said:


> I still believe in the grandmaster but holy fuck is this a bad deal.
> 
> Who would have thought that the Legion would be ready to run off the cliff to their deaths like lemmings, had we only read the fine print...





Delete all the shidd!

@Kinjin


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## MrPopo (Oct 25, 2021)

KBD said:


> To everyone who only voted for Kidd and didn't make a bet...
> 
> You're a bunch of PUSSIES


No need to make a bet the satisfaction of bring right is more than enough for me


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## KBD (Oct 25, 2021)

MrPopo said:


> No need to make a bet the satisfaction of bring right is more than enough for me


If you really were on the side of justice you would turn yourself in


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## MrPopo (Oct 25, 2021)

KBD said:


> If you really were on the side of justice you would turn yourself in


I am justice

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Beast (Oct 25, 2021)

MrPopo said:


> I am justice


That’s why you like Law


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## Amol (Oct 25, 2021)

How would you even prove who is stronger?

There is no objectively accepted method for that.

People will only end up arguing who is stronger till end of the time.
For bet to work there has to be some very specific calculable criteria that proves either Zoro or Kid stronger.

Like Kid giving Big Mom injury worse than what Zoro gave to Kaido. Something like that.


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## MrPopo (Oct 25, 2021)

Beast said:


> That’s why you like Law


Exactly


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## Beast (Oct 25, 2021)

Amol said:


> How would you even prove who is stronger?
> 
> There is no objectively accepted method for that.
> 
> ...


I think it’s quite simple… end of wano a lot of things could happen and we will take what actually happens and use that.

Not really, if you count trolls making baseless statements then sure. It’s quite simple if the wano was to end to day, I think it’s quite clear Zoro has better feats then Kidd despite the portrayal, if Kidd happens  to beat BM then it’s a closed case there.

I can’t exactly tell you every example there is, we just gotta wait to see what happens because the feats will speak for themselves. Both Kidd and Zoro have been fighting and are getting their feats.

If that’s all he does then yeah, I guess you could compare the two feats etc but I think it’s quite clear they’re both going to do more going forward thus this bet is still on.


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## Ayy lmao (Oct 25, 2021)

Amol said:


> People will only end up arguing who is stronger till end of the time.


The only correct answer


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## xmysticgohanx (Oct 25, 2021)

I didn’t even know there was a bet


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## crylo ren (Oct 25, 2021)

zoro fandom HQ

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Beast (Oct 25, 2021)

crylo ren said:


> zoro fandom HQ


Gonna be a lot of deleted accounts at the end of wano


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## crylo ren (Oct 25, 2021)

Beast said:


> Gonna be a lot of deleted accounts at the end of wano


 we got them on the run


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## Kinjin (Oct 25, 2021)

Interesting that Kid has gained more votes than Zoro since this thread got bumped


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## Lord Melkor (Oct 25, 2021)

Kinjin said:


> Interesting that Kid has gained more votes than Zoro since this thread got bumped



I voted Kid (did not vote before) though i think he and Zoro are on the same level. 

Though this deleting accounts stuff is sillly.


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## 青月光 (Oct 25, 2021)

I would've laughed if at the end they'd both lacked enough feats to compare and draw a conclusion

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Strobacaxi (Oct 25, 2021)

crylo ren said:


> zoro fandom HQ


Zoro fandom is fine my man, have you been hiding in a hole since the raid started or something? We've had enough fun to last a decade lol


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## Karma (Oct 25, 2021)

I bet @Beast's account on Kidd

Reactions: Funny 3


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## Etherborn (Oct 25, 2021)

Beast said:


> the bet is quite simple, I’m claiming that at the END of Wano, when the battles are said and done, There will be no denying that Kidd is stronger then Zoro. Simple.



Just a reminder of my initial reservations with this bet thread. The above was the original statement of terms. “There will be no denying that Kidd is stronger.” If you take this phrasing at face value, then all that’s really necessary for @Beast to lose the bet is…for people to deny that Kidd is stronger once Wano ends?

The fulfillment of the literal terms that were set aren’t even dependent on any outcome of the manga; someone’s account is essentially being bet on how the OL will react either way. How you gonna make a bet where the only way you can win is if every OLer agrees with you? We can’t even agree on whether statements of fact are factual most of the time, much less something that’ll most likely be left up to interpretation.

Reactions: Like 1 | Optimistic 1


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## Freechoice (Oct 25, 2021)

Well if Kidd is supposed to be Luffy's main rival then yeah he will be stronger than Zoro

Luffy's Rival > Luffy's FM

Just like Wb/Roger/Rayleigh

Kidd sucks though

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 3


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## Heart Over Blade (Oct 26, 2021)

Freechoice said:


> Well if Kidd is supposed to be Luffy's main rival then yeah he will be stronger than Zoro
> 
> Luffy's Rival > Luffy's FM
> 
> ...


This. Both their powel levels are determined by how much of Luffy's full power they scale to Luffy's rival is obviously going to be closer to him in strength than one of his wings. The question is whether Kid can stay Luffy's rival after Wano.  If not then nothing stops Zoro from being stronger.

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## A Optimistic (Oct 26, 2021)

Kidd will defeat Big Mom and Zoro will still have better feats before the arc ends.

Decapitating Kaido > defeating Big Mom.


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## Beast (Oct 26, 2021)

Etherborn said:


> Just a reminder of my initial reservations with this bet thread. The above was the original statement of terms. “There will be no denying that Kidd is stronger.” If you take this phrasing at face value, then all that’s really necessary for @Beast to lose the bet is…for people to deny that Kidd is stronger once Wano ends?
> 
> The fulfillment of the literal terms that were set aren’t even dependent on any outcome of the manga; someone’s account is essentially being bet on how the OL will react either way. How you gonna make a bet where the only way you can win is if every OLer agrees with you? We can’t even agree on whether statements of fact are factual most of the time, much less something that’ll most likely be left up to interpretation.


Ahh language right?
It seems more legs are getting shaky but not much of act 3 left now. Not sure what will be hard to understand, the feats will be in pictures, heck there’s an actual battledome Section here and in the OBD.
Let the arc first finish before we start nitpicking.


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## Etherborn (Oct 26, 2021)

Beast said:


> Ahh language right?
> It seems more legs are getting shaky but not much of act 3 left now. Not sure what will be hard to understand, the feats will be in pictures, heck there’s an actual battledome Section here and in the OBD.
> Let the arc first finish before we start nitpicking.



It's not about language. It's about criteria. If the only criteria you set for your own victory are "it'll be undeniable" but you aren't actually clear about what kind of feats, portrayal, or character statements are necessary to make it "undeniable," then it just gives people leeway to say "Well, it's clearly not undeniable, I still think so and so is stronger based on such and such."

Even if it's undeniable to you when the time comes, you must realize that people aren't going to cave to what you believe at the end of Wano any more than they will now. If you don't set any concrete terms, then you really are just relying on people to agree that you're right when all is said and done.


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## Beast (Oct 26, 2021)

Etherborn said:


> It's not about language. It's about criteria. If the only criteria you set for your own victory are "it'll be undeniable" but you aren't actually clear about what kind of feats, portrayal, or character statements are necessary to make it "undeniable," then it just gives people leeway to say "Well, it's clearly not undeniable, I still think so and so is stronger based on such and such."
> 
> Even if it's undeniable to you when the time comes, you must realize that people aren't going to cave to what you believe at the end of Wano any more than they will now. If you don't set any concrete terms, then you really are just relying on people to agree that you're right when all is said and done.


So… what’s ‘clearly not undeniable’ when the arc isn’t yet finished?
Is it undeniable that Luffy is stronger then Zoro?
If your pint is that because someone is gonna deny the feats and thus makes my whole argument mute?
Is that what you’re basing your current point on?
Why would I make a criteria about feats?
feats have to actually take place before we can see one is above the other or this is for that reason etc. 
I’m sure you know what feats are and that’s the only thing that matters for this bet is the feats either character displays, it’s got nothing to do with portrayal or character statements.

feats are pictures in the manga, so it’s not just what’s undeniable to me… if Kidd beats BM and rips off her arm… is it still so ‘deniable’ for him to be above Zoro with what they’ve shown so far and Kidd doing that to BM? I didn’t think so.

and truthfully, there’s 100 people that took on the bet, so unless you’re gonna be the one to nitpick words, when the bet is pretty clear… Kidd comes out stronger then Zoro, I win, Zoro comes out stronger I lose. I think you’re too stuck on certain words rather then the whole picture (bet in this case).


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## oiety (Oct 26, 2021)

Opened this thread again to make sure I voted for the right guy

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Oda Report (Oct 26, 2021)

Beast said:


> So… what’s ‘clearly not undeniable’ when the arc isn’t yet finished?
> *Is it undeniable that Luffy is stronger then Zoro?*
> If your pint is that because someone is gonna deny the feats and thus makes my whole argument mute?
> Is that what you’re basing your current point on?
> ...



Nah bruh Im still on the fence with the bold.

Reactions: Funny 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Yumi Zoro (Oct 26, 2021)

Imaging betting against Zoro In 2021, some poeple are just stupid.

Reactions: Agree 2 | Funny 1 | Optimistic 1


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## HaxHax (Oct 27, 2021)

HaxHax said:


> It's not like the people taking this bet would admit they were wrong even if Luffy and Kid were to perform the finishing blow on Kaido side by side as equals.


Don't say I didn't warn you


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Oct 27, 2021)

HaxHax said:


> Don't say I didn't warn you



Nah

If kidd and law beat Big mom and all zoro does from now on is beat king.

Then i will say kidd and law are stronger 100 percent.


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## Oda Report (Oct 27, 2021)

If King ends up having a ability that would defeat Big Mom while Zoro defeats King. I will say Zoro is stronger then both Law and Kid. Anything can happen folks King is positioned to be either a dark horse for the alliance IF Zoro doesn't stop em. The Jeepers Creepers beat Marco off panel 1v1.  There is a reason why Mom wants King so bad even after giving her and crew the ban hammer.

Reactions: Winner 1 | Tier Specialist 2


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## Oberyn Nymeros (Oct 27, 2021)

I will bet my account on Kid. Im pretty confident in Oda here.

I know some Z boys have already admitted that nothing Kid does against Big Mom will matter to their rankings but.....fuck em.


Oda Report said:


> If King ends up having a ability that would defeat Big Mom while Zoro defeats King.


How could such a thing be determined when he is only fighting Zoro? 

Z boys already looking to make King yonku level so they don't have to admit the truth when the time comes.

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 1 | Winner 1 | Optimistic 1


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## A Optimistic (Oct 27, 2021)

Sweet Tomato said:


> Imaging betting against Zoro In 2021, some poeple are just stupid.



agreed


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## Steven (Oct 27, 2021)

I go with kidd


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## Oda Report (Oct 27, 2021)

Oberyn Nymeros said:


> I will bet my account on Kid. Im pretty confident in Oda here.
> 
> I know some Z boys have already admitted that nothing Kid does against Big Mom will matter to their rankings but.....fuck em.
> 
> How could such a thing be determined when he is only fighting Zoro?


because Zoro is stronger, keep up.




Oberyn Nymeros said:


> Z boys already looking to make King yonku level so they don't have to admit the truth when the time comes.



No scrub its a wait and see situation.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Oberyn Nymeros (Oct 27, 2021)

Oda Report said:


> because Zoro is stronger, keep up.


No I mean how would you determine that an attack used against Zoro would actually be strong enough to defeat Big Mom?

Whatever King has wont even be enough to beat Zoro let along Big Mom.


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## juju15112 (Oct 27, 2021)

Lmao boy made a box


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## juju15112 (Oct 27, 2021)

Oberyn Nymeros said:


> No I mean how would you determine that an attack used against Zoro would actually be strong enough to defeat Big Mom?
> 
> Whatever King has wont even be enough to beat Zoro let along Big Mom.


Default BM? Lol you think BM is done


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## Oda Report (Oct 27, 2021)

Oberyn Nymeros said:


> No I mean how would you determine that an attack used against Zoro would actually be strong enough to defeat Big Mom?



I typed ability, not a single attack. Even so Zoro before the fight started has had attack power that shook the shit out of kaidou's mother herself. Even to the point of worrying for her son and demanding he NOT tank that attack. 



Oberyn Nymeros said:


> Whatever King has wont even be enough to beat Zoro let along Big Mom.



He doesn't need to beat Zoro but just push him. 

I mean Zoro has been cake walking part 2 while Luffy had to catch up.

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## Oberyn Nymeros (Oct 27, 2021)

juju15112 said:


> Default BM? Lol you think BM is done


No no, Oda Report was indicating that King might have an attack that can defeat Big Mom.....but anything King brings wont even stop Zoro so why would anyone think it could stop Big Mom?


Oda Report said:


> I typed ability, not a single attack. Even so Zoro before the fight started has had attack power that shook the shit out of kaidou's mother herself. Even to the point of worrying for her son and demanding he NOT tank that attack.
> 
> 
> 
> He doesn't need to beat Zoro but just push him.


Pushing Zoro doesn't make you Yonku level. Big Mom shits on Commanders.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Optimistic 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Oda Report (Oct 27, 2021)

Oberyn Nymeros said:


> Pushing Zoro doesn't make you Yonku level. Big Mom shits on Commanders.



There you go again acting as if all Right hands are equal.

She was pretty afraid of Zoro and for kaidou.

and Fan-Cougar over King. lol

Reactions: Tier Specialist 5


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## Louis-954 (Oct 27, 2021)

This is a stupid bet because who is stronger at the end will be entirely subjective. Most of you have an inherent bias towards one character and are only capable of looking at things in a positive light for that character. Doesn't matter who ends up stronger, the other side will never agree that is the case.

Reactions: Winner 6


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## Oda Report (Oct 27, 2021)

Louis-954 said:


> This is a stupid bet because who is stronger at the end will be entirely subjective. Most of you have an inherent bias towards one character and are only capable of looking at things in a positive light for that character. Doesn't matter who ends up stronger, the other side will never agree that is the case.



Pretty much this.

I mean Oda hand picked the WSS and readers think its a rumor. . .

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Jay. (Oct 27, 2021)

are you implying that big news morgan gave mihawk the title?

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Oct 27, 2021)

Louis-954 said:


> This is a stupid bet because who is stronger at the end will be entirely subjective. Most of you have an inherent bias towards one character and are only capable of looking at things in a positive light for that character. Doesn't matter who ends up stronger, the other side will never agree that is the case.



Thats why @Etherborn and @Soca who arent super biased towards one of these two will decide who the winner is after we all discuss it.

Reactions: Friendly 1


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## Oda Report (Oct 27, 2021)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Thats why @Etherborn and @Soca who arent super biased towards one of these two will decide who the winner is after we all discuss it.



The discussion won't reach a conclusion.


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## Beast (Oct 28, 2021)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Nah
> 
> If kidd and law beat Big mom and all zoro does from now on is beat king.
> 
> Then i will say kidd and law are stronger 100 percent.


Apparently, we can’t tell the difference in feats.


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## Kagutsutchi (Oct 28, 2021)

I changed my mind a long time ago. Kidd is stronger than Zoro


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## Jay. (Oct 28, 2021)

it does itch me a bit how Zoro without a sword would perform against some of these peeps in his camp

his endurance and durability were always insane since arlong park

still don't get how mr.1 cut the entire building behind him but Zoro was still standing

not saying he has a exoskeleton or something but he can actually tank some attacks

it's just suspicious that mIhawk is the only person in the entire verse that successfully cut him if we don't count mr.1

the kuma thing proved that zoro was in luffy's camp around that time atleast if it comes down to taking pain

so there is really no surprise that Oda will let Zoro go tru hell again if the mink medicine runs off

Hope we see more defense feats from Zorojuro especially if he can't block shit with his swords


Right now Kidd still looks like a bad matchup for Zoro but on the other side Kidd is not creative at all with his abilities. 

First person to get a wide open shot wins


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Oct 28, 2021)

Freechoice said:


> Well if Kidd is supposed to be Luffy's main rival then yeah he will be stronger than Zoro
> 
> Luffy's Rival > Luffy's FM
> 
> ...



Just saw your post.

This logic went to shit the Moment Luffy used G4 and made it perfectly clear Law and Smoker are trash compared to him.

Isnt Smoker suppose to be Luffys Garp? Could Roger ragdoll Garp? I doubt it.

Luffy has no WB or Garp.


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## Oda Report (Oct 28, 2021)

Jay. said:


> it does itch me a bit how Zoro without a sword would perform against some of these peeps in his camp
> 
> his endurance and durability were always insane since arlong park
> 
> ...



Zoro, had CoA coating all along. 

-Oda

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Jay. (Oct 28, 2021)

well Kidd doesn't have good CoA so he better protect himself with junk when Ashura activates right before Zoro is about to die


it would be an entertaining fight

Reactions: Like 1


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## IHateAnnoyingJerks (Oct 28, 2021)

I voted Zoro but how does Zoro deal with Kid's magnetic power?  Kid can just take the swords with his DF.


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## Oberyn Nymeros (Oct 28, 2021)

IHateAnnoyingJerks said:


> I voted Zoro but how does Zoro deal with Kid's magnetic power?  Kid can just take the swords with his DF.


Haki


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## Jay. (Oct 28, 2021)

looks like zoro has infinite haki and his swords can never be magnitized

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Oberyn Nymeros (Oct 28, 2021)

He has enough haki to keep his swords charged for the duration of a match...come on now.

It'd be nice if Kid fought someone on his level so we'd know how this worked rather than Kaido and Big Mom who are lolimmune to hax.


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## Jay. (Oct 28, 2021)



Reactions: Funny 4


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## Oberyn Nymeros (Oct 28, 2021)

That's physical strength.

Kid is strong enough to stop charged Napoleon and overpower Big Mom so he could replicate this with the right build.


Keep in mind, I don't think Zoro can beat Kid or Law but he isn't helpless...it'll be a tough win for either with current feats and T
tougher for Kid than Law.


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## Jay. (Oct 28, 2021)

zoro can grip his swords as tight as he wants he'll get pulled in by kidd anyway especially if he holds on to his swords, kidd could pull (depending on the enviroment) the other junk surrounding zoro. zoro might even lose his balance if he is standing on garbage or something. also we have no evidence that armanent protects zoro's swords from being pulled especially cause King clearly managed to disarm him in a similair manner and pretty sure zoro had his haki on. haki is suppossed to counter df abilities but it doesn't nullify them, right?

the idea of zoro just standing there and not being phased by kidd's abilities because he has haki just seems silly. correct me if i am wrong cause at the end of the day i dont care about this match up anyway

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Oberyn Nymeros (Oct 28, 2021)

If Smokers haki can protect his blade from Law's spatial hax why wouldn't Zoro's protect his from Kid's magnetic hax?


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## Jay. (Oct 28, 2021)

damn bro apples and oranges

Reactions: Like 1


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## Oberyn Nymeros (Oct 28, 2021)

Jay. said:


> damn bro apples and oranges


Yeah, haki blocks bananas and grapes as well though


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## Redline (Oct 28, 2021)

Jay. said:


> zoro can grip his swords as tight as he wants he'll get pulled in by kidd anyway especially if he holds on to his swords, kidd could pull (depending on the enviroment) the other junk surrounding zoro. zoro might even lose his balance if he is standing on garbage or something. also we have no evidence that armanent protects zoro's swords from being pulled especially cause King clearly managed to disarm him in a similair manner and pretty sure zoro had his haki on. haki is suppossed to counter df abilities but it doesn't nullify them, right?
> 
> the idea of zoro just standing there and not being phased by kidd's abilities because he has haki just seems silly. correct me if i am wrong cause at the end of the day i dont care about this match up anyway


precisely ..I always thought kid df was what would give him the edge over Zoro but nowadays it is even more clear..not counting the color of conqueror haki , but with this awakening skill Zoro is no match for him and Sanji two, they both become mismatch for kid in one chapter, oda always one step ahead, just when we were thinking Zoro and Sanji could have possibly been stronger than law and kid! oda rectified that this chapter


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## Jay. (Oct 28, 2021)

nah you compared law's room to magnetic abilities just to make a point about haki


and then you brought smoker to the table

no idea where to start mate

not only did smokers toy end in the garbage can anyway, it also had kairoseki on it and still made no real difference?

law put him in tashigi's body ffs. i don't understand the argument with smoker at all. you can hope that zoro magically manages to make his swords immun to magnetic fields but what does it have to do with smoker in law's room?


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## Oberyn Nymeros (Oct 28, 2021)

Jay. said:


> nah you compared law's room to magnetic abilities just to make a point about haki
> 
> 
> and then you brought smoker to the table
> ...


Not sure what the disconnect is. If you have good haki, Law cannot effect your weapon. Why would Kid be different?


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## ClannadFan (Oct 28, 2021)

Redline said:


> Spoiler


I don't think we're allowed to talk about spoilers here yet.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## ClannadFan (Oct 28, 2021)

I think Kidd is stronger. Felt that way ever since his fight for Wano was Big Mom and Zoro's was King.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Oberyn Nymeros (Oct 28, 2021)

ClannadFan said:


> I don't think we're allowed to talk about spoilers here yet.


Don't quote them yo. Redact that to be safe

Reactions: Friendly 1


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## ClannadFan (Oct 28, 2021)

Oberyn Nymeros said:


> Don't quote them yo. Redact that to be safe


Fixed it

Reactions: Like 1


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## Jay. (Oct 28, 2021)

bro this is kidd vs zoro

what does law have to do with it

we talkin magnets and not what can or cannot happen in law's room

it's fine if you think zoro's swords are not effected by kidd's power or that zoro's haki will neglect kidd's abilities lol


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## Redline (Oct 28, 2021)

kid got this sorry


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## ShadoLord (Oct 28, 2021)

Redline said:


> precisely ..I always thought kid df was what would give him the edge over Zoro but nowadays it is even more clear..not counting the color of conqueror haki , but with this awakening skill Zoro is no match for him and Sanji two, they both become mismatch for kid in one chapter, oda always one step ahead, just when we were thinking Zoro and Sanji could have possibly been stronger than law and kid! oda rectified that this chapter


Rectify nothing with midd contiuning to disappoint. Even two on one against Big Mom and they have yet to dealt any significant injuries like the losers they are in Oda’s mind.


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## ShadoLord (Oct 28, 2021)

Kidd could try to attract Zoro’s sword and eats a big dragon blaze. Kidd probably gets bisected pretty easily.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Freechoice (Oct 28, 2021)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Just saw your post.
> 
> This logic went to shit the Moment Luffy used G4 and made it perfectly clear Law and Smoker are trash compared to him.
> 
> ...


At that time Zoro was a low diff scrub against G4 Luffy just like Law 

Oda will portray Law/Kidd as Luffy's relative rival whenever it's necessary to demonstrate it. 

Hold me to that. You'd be stupid to think otherwise

Right now they are taking on a yonko just like Luffy is and Zoro is fighting the 2nd strongest in Kaido's crew because that's where he stands

But sometimes Kidd/Law will look weak compared to Luffy like when he gets G5 or something but you better believe they will the next month get some sort of powerup or be magically around his level (Zoro is an example) This sort of shit has been happening since One Piece began.

Reactions: Winner 2 | Optimistic 1


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Oct 28, 2021)

Freechoice said:


> At that time Zoro was a low diff scrub against G4 Luffy just like Law
> 
> Oda will portray Law/Kidd as Luffy's relative rival whenever it's necessary to demonstrate it.
> 
> ...



Luffy fights Kaidou.

Kidd and Law fight Big Meme who is a joke. 

That should tell you all you need to know. 

Be like saying Zoro and Sanji are peers to luffy cause they beat Kaku 2v1. While Luffy beats Lucci.

Reactions: Like 1 | Neutral 1 | Disagree 1 | Tier Specialist 5


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## p1X3 (Oct 28, 2021)

ClannadFan said:


> I think Kidd is stronger. Felt that way ever since his fight for Wano was Big Mom and Zoro's was King.


Well first off its not a 1v1 for Kidd  he's fighting with Law, second there's no guarantee that their defeating Big Mom.


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## ClannadFan (Oct 29, 2021)

p1X3 said:


> Well first off its not a 1v1 for Kidd  he's fighting with Law, second there's no guarantee that their defeating Big Mom.


Fighting to a draw in a 2v1 vs Big Mom is more impressive than beating King imo. Also, techinically there's no guarantee Zoro wins either sooo :s


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## Oda Report (Oct 29, 2021)

The King disrespect.

If Kid and Law defeat Mom they are still below King, kick beat big Mom and crew already solo.

Reactions: Like 2 | Disagree 1 | Optimistic 1 | Tier Specialist 2


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## Louis-954 (Oct 29, 2021)

Oberyn Nymeros said:


> Haki


Haki doesn't nullify DF effects.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Klarionan (Oct 29, 2021)

Law > Kidd > Zoro now.

Reactions: Agree 2 | Tier Specialist 2 | Dislike 1


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## Beast (Oct 29, 2021)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Luffy fights Kaidou.
> 
> Kidd and Law fight Big Meme who is a joke.
> 
> ...


Wait… youre saying BM is making and Kaidou is lucci?
The disrespect


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## Kylo Ren (Oct 29, 2021)

I forgot Im in this bet.

Suddenly, what Kidd do this chapter makes me


I should start saying King is the strongest FM and equal to Kaido

Reactions: Funny 3


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## Danyboy (Oct 29, 2021)

There is literally zero reason to assume Zoro in a tag team cant do what Kidd and Law are doing. Lol, we ectually saw them in a tagteam vs2 Yonko and Zoro outrepformed everyone except Luffy, yet "He IS wEAker BCuSe FighT kING". Like how does it even make sense?
Also, comparing Kidd and Law who just got power up Against Zoro, who yet have to recive one, not a very wise move. Lets talk when Zoro will get one of black blade/avd coc(maybe even both).

Reactions: Winner 3 | Optimistic 1 | Tier Specialist 4


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## Redline (Oct 29, 2021)

Zoro said:


> Rectify nothing with midd contiuning to disappoint. Even two on one against Big Mom and they have yet to dealt any significant injuries like the losers they are in Oda’s mind.


POSSIBLE  but not certain



Oda Report said:


> The King disrespect.
> 
> If Kid and Law defeat Mom they are still below King, kick beat big Mom and crew already solo.


caps


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## Oda Report (Oct 29, 2021)

Redline said:


> caps



far from caps I use all lowercase.


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## Van Basten (Oct 29, 2021)

Oda Report said:


> The King disrespect.
> 
> If Kid and Law defeat Mom they are still below King, kick beat big Mom and crew already solo.


The delusions of Yonko Commander fans know no end.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Optimistic 1


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## Oda Report (Oct 29, 2021)

Van Basten said:


> The delusions of Yonko Commander fans know no end.



It's not a delusion when it happened.


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## juju15112 (Oct 29, 2021)

So Kidd ultimate attack is Laws takt

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Nox (Oct 30, 2021)

Danyboy said:


> Also, comparing* Kidd and Law who just got power up Against Zoro, who yet have to recive one*, not a very wise move. Lets talk when Zoro will get one of black blade/avd coc(maybe even both).



In Wano Zoro has received Enma, Foxfire Style and Conquerors. 2 outta 3 had dedicated training periods. Kid/Law have accessed Awakening.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1


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## Yumi Zoro (Oct 30, 2021)

Van Basten said:


> The delusions of Yonko Commander fans know no end.


Not every Yonko commender are build equal.
There are some who stand above all like Rayleigh, Ben Beckmann, Shiryuu, Zoro, Marco, and now King (the dude proved himself already Beat Marco, solos BM crew and keeping UP easily with Post rooftop Zoro).
 I Say even Whitebeard before the Rock Fall.

Ironically Shanks was part of Roger crew yet it did not make him a weakling.

Yonko commender is just a title it doesnt speak about their respective strenght.

Reactions: Winner 1 | Tier Specialist 2


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## Danyboy (Oct 30, 2021)

Nox said:


> In Wano Zoro has received Enma, Foxfire Style and Conquerors. 2 outta 3 had dedicated training periods. Kid/Law have accessed Awakening.


I mean hes final power up in Wano.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Beast (Oct 30, 2021)

Danyboy said:


> There is literally zero reason to assume Zoro in a tag team cant do what Kidd and Law are doing. Lol, we ectually saw them in a tagteam vs2 Yonko and Zoro outrepformed everyone except Luffy, yet "He IS wEAker BCuSe FighT kING". Like how does it even make sense?
> Also, comparing Kidd and Law who just got power up Against Zoro, who yet have to recive one, not a very wise move. Lets talk when Zoro will get one of black blade/avd coc(maybe even both).


Zoros feats on the RT just wasn’t as great as people once thought, it happens. 5v2 is much different two vs 1 against a yonko.


Is this before or after Zoro got Enma and a week to train and awakened his CoC? 
law got his power up but Kidd could have always had awakening… we don’t know thing about him and he was to the one being up awakening with Law.


kidd definitely beats Zoro though. I think it’s a fact now with the awakening power.

Reactions: Winner 3


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## Danyboy (Oct 30, 2021)

Beast said:


> Zoros feats on the RT just wasn’t as great as people once thought


Even if true, still lvl above Kidd lol.


Beast said:


> 5v2 is much different two vs 1 against a yonko.


Yeah, Kidd was nearly useless in those and survivied thanks to Zoro. 
Zoro  scared Kaido in 1 on 1 actually. Both Law and Kidd landed their atack when BM was distracted by one of them.


Beast said:


> Is this before or after Zoro got Enma and a week to train and awakened his CoC?


I mean Wano final power up.


Beast said:


> law got his power up but Kidd could have always had awakening… we don’t know thing about him and he was to the one being up awakening with Law.


They both said same thing about awakening, so either they both awakened now or both had it before. We also know for a fact that none of them are used to it.


Beast said:


> I think it’s a fact now with the awakening power.


We dont even know what it did to BM though. Also the fact is, none of them can use awakening easly in a battle, thats why they needed each others distraction.


Beast said:


> kidd definitely beats Zoro though.


I dont think Kidd has done better then Zoro on rofftop, lets see what happens next chapter w BM. Even if Kidd beats him now, Zoro is about to get his power up too, so at the end of Wano i still bet on Zoro.

Reactions: Like 1


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## charles101 (Oct 30, 2021)

If the fight against BM is over, only way Kid beats Zoro is due to hard counter.


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## Beast (Oct 30, 2021)

Danyboy said:


> Even if true, still lvl above Kidd lol.
> 
> Yeah, Kidd was nearly useless in those and survivied thanks to Zoro.
> Zoro  scared Kaido in 1 on 1 actually. Both Law and Kidd landed their atack when BM was distracted by one of them.
> ...


A lot of words to say Kidd has advantage over Zoro and beats him.

Reactions: Funny 1 | Winner 1


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## Oberyn Nymeros (Oct 30, 2021)

If Kid cannot move Zoro's swords, Kid still wins. He's too much of a tank and is too physically powerful.

Never forget: Zoro passed out after a stab to the shoulder from Killer's scythes + food poisoning while Kid took a stab through the chest from Killer's Punishers and walked it off.

Kidd stopped Big Mom sword with no apparent difficulty and hit her so hard even through her iron skin that she had to shake it off.

Reactions: Winner 4


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## Perrin (Oct 30, 2021)

I reckon Zoro will surpass YC1 level by the end of the arc


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## A Optimistic (Oct 30, 2021)

Oberyn Nymeros said:


> Never forget: Zoro passed out after a stab to the shoulder from Killer's scythes + food poisoning while Kid took a stab through the chest from Killer's Punishers and walked it off.



Lmao never considered this before

Reactions: Funny 1 | Winner 1


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## Firo (Oct 30, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> Lmao never considered this before


Time to stir the pot it seems.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Kinjin (Oct 30, 2021)

This is a spoiler-free zone. I had to delete some posts, will undelete tomorrow.


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## Oda Report (Oct 30, 2021)

Oberyn Nymeros said:


> If Kid cannot move Zoro's swords, Kid still wins. He's too much of a tank and is too physically powerful.
> 
> Never forget: Zoro passed out after a stab to the shoulder from Killer's scythes + food poisoning while Kid took a stab through the chest from Killer's Punishers and walked it off.
> 
> Kidd stopped Big Mom sword with no apparent difficulty and hit her so hard even through her iron skin that she had to shake it off.



Kids not tanking a lot of Zoros tech.

Most of Kids junk punk attacks get diced up.

its either awakening or bust.



Sweet Tomato said:


> *Yonko commender is just a title it doesnt speak about their respective strenght.*



This, right here is way so many tier list fail around these parts.

Reactions: Agree 2 | Tier Specialist 3


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## Firo (Oct 30, 2021)

Oda Report said:


> Kids not tanking a lot of Zoros tech.
> 
> Most of Kids junk punk attacks get diced up.
> 
> ...


And yet the OL say shit like “YC1”.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Oda Report (Oct 30, 2021)

Firo said:


> And yet the OL say shit like “YC1”.



Schicibukai level is still used, majority be wrong fam, that and WB pirates left a good impression.


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## Cursemark (Oct 30, 2021)

Oberyn Nymeros said:


> If Kid cannot move Zoro's swords, Kid still wins. He's too much of a tank and is too physically powerful


If Zoro can fuck Kaido up then I’m not sure why you think Kid of all people can tank his attacks. And physically powerful Kid is not, he used junk in place of physical strength.

Reactions: GODA 2


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## Oberyn Nymeros (Oct 30, 2021)

Cursemark said:


> If Zoro can fuck Kaido up then I’m not sure why you think Kid of all people can tank his attacks.


....few things: 

Kaido wasn't "fucked up," and Kid is tanking hits from Big Mom. King is currently tanking hits from Zoro, and Apoo walked off a Lion Song. 

I'm not sure why you think hurting Kaido means anyone weaker than Kaido cannot manage Zoro. By that logic, Punk Slam would break Zoro's spine.

Kid also isn't going to sit on his ass and let himself be hit. He can dodge and block; we just know it takes a lot to put him down. We haven't even hit his limit yet despite the Hawkins shenanigans.



Cursemark said:


> And physically powerful Kid is not, he used junk in place of physical strength.


Useless distinction.

Reactions: Winner 2


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## MartyMcFly1 (Oct 30, 2021)

Zoro is stronger. Especially if he masters advanced Haoshoku.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Tier Specialist 2


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## Redline (Oct 30, 2021)

As I already said..Kidd got this! Zoro lose only because of df hax fruit Kidd has by the way


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## Yumi Zoro (Oct 30, 2021)

Firo said:


> And yet the OL say shit like “YC1”.



Whitebeard the YC1 of the Rock Pirate.

You see how ridiculous this sound cause WB is the WSM and easily Yonko level.

If Rock still existed and WB did not leave the crew will this mean WB will remain YC1?

Rayleigh is another exemple but unlike WB he never left Roger to build his own crew.

Something alot of people use to downplay Rayleigh with the liké of Oden, Big Mom and Kaido.

Rayleigh was a Monster of the same Caliber like WB, Garp, Sengoku Once why The Roger pirate were indiscutably the strongest cause With him and Roger its a warp.

Literraly Oda has to make the battle between Roger and WB amical otherwise WB would get destroyed by the Roger pirate.

Adding Scopper only make it worst.

Reactions: Agree 2 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Oda Report (Oct 30, 2021)

Oberyn Nymeros said:


> ....few things:
> 
> Kaido wasn't "fucked up," and Kid is tanking hits from Big Mom. King is currently tanking hits from Zoro, and Apoo walked off a Lion Song.



Zoro was actually damaging kaidou, one of the most durable beings, King being able to tank Zoro attacks and over power him speaks to kings personal power, Apoo was KO after lion song. IIRC


Oberyn Nymeros said:


> I'm not sure why you think hurting Kaido means anyone weaker than Kaido cannot manage Zoro. By that logic, Punk Slam would break Zoro's spine.



it the fact that kids durability doesn't mean jack since Zoro dragon twister can actually cut kaidou, which isn't even a top attack from Zoro.




Oberyn Nymeros said:


> Kid also isn't going to sit on his ass and let himself be hit. He can dodge and block; we just know it takes a lot to put him down. We haven't even hit his limit yet despite the Hawkins shenanigans.



Yes of course however when it comes down to it, Kid doesn't have much for Z.

Reactions: Winner 3


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## Oberyn Nymeros (Oct 30, 2021)

Oda Report said:


> Zoro was actually damaging kaidou, one of the most durable beings, King being able to tank Zoro attacks and over power him speaks to kings personal power,


Now, I don't understand your point.

You know that a person much weaker than Kaido can take Zoro's hits, so why are you pretending that Kid being much weaker than Kaido means he cannot take hits from Zoro?

Kid just took a named hit to the back from Big Mom while being affected by Hawkins and got up from it without issue.


Oda Report said:


> Apoo was KO after lion song. IIRC


Apoo seemed to be down but the next chapter popped up to fight Brooke.


Oda Report said:


> it the fact that kids durability doesn't mean jack since Zoro dragon twister can actually cut kaidou, which isn't even a top attack from Zoro.


Every Scabbard can also cut Kaido.....it just means that you have advanced haki not that your attack power is overwhelming to your peers. See Zoro vs King and Apoo for more information.

Reactions: Winner 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Oda Report (Oct 30, 2021)

Oberyn Nymeros said:


> Now, I don't understand your point.
> 
> You know that a person much weaker than Kaido can take Zoro's hits, so why are you pretending that Kid being much weaker than Kaido means he cannot take hits from Zoro?



King PROVED it ON PANEL, that's way.

Zoro was hit by big moms attacks along with Law and Luffy even Killer.....Kid is NOT standing out. 



Oberyn Nymeros said:


> Apoo seemed to be down but the next chapter popped up to fight Brooke.



Lucky Zoro walked off to take on a bigger fish, point remains lion song > Apoo = KO Poo



Oberyn Nymeros said:


> Every Scabbard can also cut Kaido.....it just means that you have advanced haki not that your attack power is overwhelming to your peers. See Zoro vs King and Apoo for more information.



No, Zoro was on the rooftop doing a lot more then the Scabbards did, When Zoro outclassed Kaidous twister proved Zoro is in a diffrent class of attack power.

Reactions: Winner 3 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Piecesis (Oct 30, 2021)




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## Oberyn Nymeros (Oct 30, 2021)

Oda Report said:


> King PROVED it ON PANEL, that's way.


Right, he proved the obvious which is that if you are close in strength to Zoro, you can deal with his attacks.



Oda Report said:


> Zoro was hit by big moms attacks along with Law and Luffy even Killer.....


Now which one had his chest cut open by Killer and took Napoleon to the back with no guard and is fine?


Oda Report said:


> No, Zoro was on the rooftop doing a lot more then the Scabbards did, When Zoro outclassed Kaidous twister proved Zoro is in a diffrent class of attack power.


Zoro didn't outclass anything; you're just basing that off of a spoiler we received.

Zoro is stronger than the Scabbards but....so?


Oda Report said:


> Lucky Zoro walked off to take on a bigger fish, point remains lion song > Apoo = KO Poo


No, Zoro was standing there and Drake attacked Apoo.

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## truedetectiveseason2intro (Oct 30, 2021)

Sweet Tomato said:


> Whitebeard the YC1 of the Rock Pirate.
> 
> You see how ridiculous this sound cause WB is the WSM and easily Yonko level.
> 
> ...


Roger and xebec were not yonko. The yonko are at a deadlock and have similar crew structure. Their crews are comparable except cases like the red hairs where it’s stated explicitly and those statements may not bear fruit.

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## truedetectiveseason2intro (Oct 30, 2021)

This thread will only be settled if zoro comes out definitely on top because zoro brigade will never concede if it goes the other way.

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## Oda Report (Oct 30, 2021)

Oberyn Nymeros said:


> Right, he proved the obvious which is that if you are close in strength to Zoro, you can deal with his attacks.



Nice way of ignoring my argument. just eat the L my friend. Zoros attack power can easily damage Yonkou Kaidou a being KNOWN for his durability. King over powered Zoro, not once but twice in a small exchange.

Its not a negative its positive for King who did it with no name attacks.




Oberyn Nymeros said:


> Now which one had his chest cut open by Killer and took Napoleon to the back with no guard and is fine?



Who was key to saving the rooftop 5 and still being able to permanently damage kaidou with broken bones?
On top of getting hit by Big Mom.



Oberyn Nymeros said:


> Zoro didn't outclass anything; you're just basing that off of a spoiler we received.



What? Zoro didn't out class Kaidous dragon twister after he eat Luffy?

saying something that happened in the story is bias now.....classic NF shit.



Oberyn Nymeros said:


> Zoro is stronger than the Scabbards but....so?



Its you comparing them to Zoro......buddy.

Your hate for Zoro is making you forget your own argument.

Reactions: Winner 3 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Shiba D. Inu (Oct 30, 2021)

Kidd genuinely does not have the AP to put down Zoro

I mean .. Punk Gibson ?

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 1 | Winner 1


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## Oberyn Nymeros (Oct 30, 2021)

Oda Report said:


> Nice way of ignoring my argument. just eat the L my friend. Zoros attack power can easily damage Yonkou Kaidou a being KNOWN for his durability. King over powered Zoro, not once but twice in a small exchange.
> 
> Its not a negative its positive for King who did it with no name attacks.


And Apoo took a blind shot and got up and is fine. 


Oda Report said:


> Who was key to saving the rooftop 5 and still being able to permanently damage kaidou with broken bones?
> On top of getting hit by Big Mom.


Zoro did a great job scarring Kaido. He still needs to work to beat people on his level.


Oda Report said:


> What? Zoro didn't out class Kaidous dragon twister after he eat Luffy?
> 
> saying something that happened in the story is bias now.....classic NF shit.


Bias? No, I think you're making a statement based off a belief passed through false spoilers. In the actual chapter, Zoro does not negate Kaido's attack.


Oda Report said:


> Its you comparing them to Zoro......buddy.


You indicated that bleeding Kaido was an indication that Kid couldn't handle his attacks. That obviously isn't the case because individuals far weaker than Zoro can do the same. 

My point is that making Kaido bleed with your attacks isn't a direct indicator of strength but a measure of whether you have advanced haki.


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## Beast (Oct 31, 2021)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> Kidd genuinely does not have the AP to put down Zoro
> 
> I mean .. Punk Gibson ?


Yeah because Zoro has Kaidou and BM level durability and endurance and even then… Kidd still damaged them both.
Zoro is being thrown around like some piece of paper.

Reactions: Optimistic 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Shiba D. Inu (Oct 31, 2021)

Beast said:


> Kidd still damaged them both.


a lie




Beast said:


> Zoro has Kaidou and BM level endurance


Yes

Reactions: Funny 5 | Tier Specialist 3


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## Beast (Oct 31, 2021)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> a lie
> 
> 
> 
> Yes


We got ourselves a two piece reader. 
not my problem Kidd had both of them screaming in pain from his attacks.  

well thanks for ending this discussion short. That’s dumb piece you’ve been reading from.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Oct 31, 2021)



Reactions: Funny 1 | Winner 1


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## Klarionan (Oct 31, 2021)

Glad to see that Zoro is back on his way to become the most overrated pirate in One Piece.


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## Oda Report (Oct 31, 2021)

Oberyn Nymeros said:


> And Apoo took a blind shot and got up and is fine.



After taking a dirt nap because a causal Lion Song laid him to rest. . .lucky for Apoo the Pirate Hunter days are over. 



Oberyn Nymeros said:


> Zoro did a great job scarring Kaido. He still needs to work to beat people on his level.



You don't KNOW fully how strong King is, in those clashes King proved his AP is on another level, with his no name-attacks blowing Zoro (current) away to other parts of Onigashima, is a massive positive for King, You can NOT minimize King at this point, to boost kid sorry.

King giving Zoro the biz doesn't mean Kid is stronger or can handle Zoros attacks when Kids ap is far weaker then Zoros, and his durability is no where near one of the most durable being in the verse.



Oberyn Nymeros said:


> Bias? No, I think you're making a statement based off a belief passed through false spoilers. In the actual chapter, Zoro does not negate Kaido's attack.



Dragon twister actually damaged Kaidou's IIRC, Killer (who is smart) and Mom made a comment about it. A throw away attack, and Zoro main focus was to save Luffy yet again.



Oberyn Nymeros said:


> You indicated that bleeding Kaido was an indication that Kid couldn't handle his attacks. That obviously isn't the case because individuals far weaker than Zoro can do the same.



Zoro did more then just bleed Kaidou, Zoro dragon blaze was an attack gave both Yonkou fear of damage, dragon twister a low level attack for Zoro standards was able to cut and hurt kaidou, to the point even big Mom and Killer talked about it. Thats all before Zoro got his bones broken by both Yonkou.



Oberyn Nymeros said:


> My point is that making Kaido bleed with your attacks isn't a direct indicator of strength but a measure of whether you have advanced haki.



Those typed of Haki adds to your personal power. . .how do you think there attacks got so much force they clear the skys?


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## TrolonoaZoro (Oct 31, 2021)

I don't understand praising Kidd's endurance to be a determining factor for him being stronger than Zoro.

When Zoro has a much more impressive endurance feat that Kidd himself praised, lmao.


Kidd even went full tier specialist.

Reactions: Funny 1 | Winner 3


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## Shiba D. Inu (Oct 31, 2021)

Thanks, man!


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## Beast (Oct 31, 2021)

TrolonoaZoro said:


> I don't understand praising Kidd's endurance to be a determining factor for him being stronger than Zoro.
> 
> When Zoro has a much more impressive endurance feat that Kidd himself praised, lmao.
> 
> ...


I don’t think anyone has said that. Him being a tank helps only because no zorotard can ever claim that Zoro could 1shot Kidd ever, after walking off the shit he just walked off. The determining factor for a most people I would assume is Kidds DF and his advantage over Zoros swords. I’m hoping Kidd flat out beats him in the only other thing that matters between the two which is attack power and some CoC feats.

Not really because Zoro was left with 30 broken bones and enough energy to move around a few minutes before needing medical assistance to continue. As for the Zoros feat of ‘tanking’ Hakai, That’s impossible to quantify, he didn’t take the whole attack, it’s hard to say how much of that attack hit him and he tanked, what overwhelmed etc. it’s a pretty dumb endurance feat to use against someone that walked off Two of BMs high tier attacks without blocking and nerfed from Hawkins as if he couldn’t achieve something similar to that feat by itself, along with his robosuits own durability, it only makes it much easier for Kidds.


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## Jay. (Oct 31, 2021)

i wonder if jozu could block hakai without breaking his bones and maybe for a minute?


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## truedetectiveseason2intro (Oct 31, 2021)

Kinda incredible two of the best feats this arc are two of the most overrated because of the z boys

Reactions: Agree 1


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## TrolonoaZoro (Oct 31, 2021)

Beast said:


> I don’t think anyone has said that. Him being a tank helps only because no zorotard can ever claim that Zoro could 1shot Kidd ever, after walking off the shit he just walked off. The determining factor for a most people I would assume is Kidds DF and his advantage over Zoros swords. I’m hoping Kidd flat out beats him in the only other thing that matters between the two which is attack power and some CoC feats.
> 
> Not really because Zoro was left with 30 broken bones and enough energy to move around a few minutes before needing medical assistance to continue. As for the Zoros feat of ‘tanking’ Hakai, That’s impossible to quantify, he didn’t take the whole attack, it’s hard to say how much of that attack hit him and he tanked, what overwhelmed etc. it’s a pretty dumb endurance feat to use against someone that* walked off Two of BMs high tier attacks without blocking and nerfed from Hawkins as if he couldn’t achieve something similar to that feat by itself, along with his robosuits own durability, it only makes it much easier for Kidds.*








Pretending Ikoku sovereignty is anywhere near close to Ocean Sovereignty is one of the most ridiculous arguments to make.
One is an obvious *GIGANTIC LINEAR* *IMPROVEMENT *over the other. It is the same attack BUT *WITH AN EXTRA YONKOU.*

You can not scale Kidd to it because it makes you feel good. That is a gigantic Zoro feat and there is no way around it.
Argue for anything but endurance in this.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Oda Report (Oct 31, 2021)

truedetectiveseason2intro said:


> Kinda incredible two of the best feats this arc are two of the most overrated because of the z boys



It's all because  of the z boys an I rite.

Reactions: Funny 1 | Winner 1


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## Beast (Oct 31, 2021)

TrolonoaZoro said:


> Pretending Ikoku sovereignty is anywhere near close to Ocean Sovereignty is one of the most ridiculous arguments to make.
> One is an obvious *GIGANTIC LINEAR* *IMPROVEMENT *over the other. It is the same attack BUT *WITH AN EXTRA YONKOU.*
> 
> You can not scale Kidd to it because it makes you feel good. That is a gigantic Zoro feat and there is no way around it.
> Argue for anything but endurance in this.


That’s not what i said 
I said it was hard to quantify how much damage Zoro with stood and what went past him as Law saved him back and teleported him out of the way.

Why not? We have the only comparison which we’ve seen them both take is Killers attack in the shoulder for both. The one Zoro survived because he didn’t tank shit, it’s not a feat that is running in any battle dome. Zoro didn’t tank/ stop the attack, he slowed it down for a mere second, so if you actually want to be serious despite your name, you won’t get far with claiming that Zoros ‘feat’ can’t be replicated with the same damage by someone else that has shown to be a tank like Luffy or Kidd, who have taken yonko attacks at point blank range and walked it off without any defence.
I ain’t arguing that Kidd has a higher endurance but both have shown to be able to eat attacks far above their level, so Zoro one shotting or beating Kidd with just a few moves is just a ridiculous notion.


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## Yumi Zoro (Oct 31, 2021)

Voted for Zoro now WE are 112.

Reactions: Funny 2


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## TrolonoaZoro (Oct 31, 2021)

Beast said:


> That’s not what i said
> I said it was hard to quantify how much damage Zoro with stood and what went past him as Law saved him back and teleported him out of the way.
> 
> Why not? We have the only comparison which we’ve seen them both take is Killers attack in the shoulder for both. The one Zoro survived because he didn’t tank shit, it’s not a feat that is running in any battle dome. Zoro didn’t tank/ stop the attack, he slowed it down for a mere second, so if you actually want to be serious despite your name, you won’t get far with claiming that Zoros ‘feat’ can’t be replicated with the same damage by someone else that has shown to be a tank like Luffy or Kidd, who have taken yonko attacks at point blank range and walked it off without any defence.
> I ain’t arguing that Kidd has a higher endurance but both have shown to be able to eat attacks far above their level, so Zoro one shotting or beating Kidd with just a few moves is just a ridiculous notion.


Why would you measure Zoro to down to Killer's stab wound when it was made explicit that Hunger/food poisoning was an aspect of Zoro falling asleep.
And
In the same arc that he later he took endured an island buster, lol.

That's like measuring Sanji to pre exoskeleton power up in a hypothetical.


Event A happened before Event B.
They're both about endurance.
People get stronger

But

Let me artificially pretend that getting stab by killer is a good measurement or parallel to block an island destroyer, lmao.
Tanking an apoo attack means you can take an island buster?



This is beyond ridiculous on a rudimental level.




Can Sanji block an island buster?


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## Beast (Oct 31, 2021)

TrolonoaZoro said:


> Why would you measure Zoro to down to Killer's stab wound when it was made explicit that Hunger/food poisoning was an aspect of Zoro falling asleep.
> And
> In the same arc that he later he took endured an island buster, lol.
> 
> ...


Killer stabbing under guarded Zoro/ Kidd and then taking hits from either yonko is the only direct comparison we can use.
Well, I left it as similar because one Killer this time was using his normal weapons unlike before. It’s still not the same exact situation but its still same person using the same attack (shoulder stab) against the same two people we are talking about.

lol that is not remotely the same, you think the difference between Sanji pre DNA awakening and post awakening is the same as Zoro being hungry and now not hungry? Loool you’re a funny guy.

yeah, not sure what you’re saying after the second paragraph lol. Maybe you should just reread what I was saying or you’re just simply just doing selective reading.


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## TrolonoaZoro (Oct 31, 2021)

Beast said:


> Killer stabbing under guarded Zoro/ Kidd and then taking hits from either yonko is the only direct comparison we can use.
> Well, I left it as similar because one Killer this time was using his normal weapons unlike before. It’s still not the same exact situation but its still same person using the same attack (shoulder stab) against the same two people we are talking about.
> 
> lol that is not remotely the same, you think the difference between Sanji pre DNA awakening and post awakening is the same as Zoro being hungry and now not hungry? Loool you’re a funny guy.
> ...


No, it's not the only comparison. There is absolutely no necessity to pretend that what is an obviously much more powerful attack getting endured by Zoro didn't happened.

Killer has absolutely no relevance to our understanding of bigger more power yonkou tag team attack>>>>>Individual Yonkou.

Oda drew power output without precedent for a flying slash. (Comparable only to Mihawks)
Every character present hyped it. The yonkous did, the rooftop 5 did, Kidd himself did.
Yonkous were taken aback by Zoro.

and then

There is killer stabbing both.

Ridiculous.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Jay. (Oct 31, 2021)

it's not tanking he used his swords to block it. stop uneccessary pee pee slurping. kidd gave him props for not dying. it was cool. it was brave. cool leadership moment. it's ridiclious to create a hype around it in this manner, especially cause the man broke all his bones in the process and was out for a lot of chapters afterwards.


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## Beast (Oct 31, 2021)

TrolonoaZoro said:


> No, it's not the only comparison. There is absolutely no necessity to pretend that what is an obviously much more powerful attack getting endured by Zoro didn't happened.
> 
> Killer has absolutely no relevance to our understanding of bigger more power yonkou tag team attack>>>>>Individual Yonkou.
> 
> ...


For a mere second, not sure what it is that you don’t seem to understand. Zoro didn’t tank Hakai, he was saved by Law, so how much of this extremely more powerful attack did he slow down or tank? Because the attacks aim never change.

You stupid bruh. 
Zoro didn’t tank the whole attack, so what do we do from here.

anyway, you’ve moved this discussion far enough.

point was Kidds amazing tanking abilities stops anyone from ever ever trying to claim that Zoro could do him in with just a few attacks or worse a one shot. So ima just leave it there.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Oct 31, 2021)

how much metal does Kidd have in this hypothetical fight ? 

no metal = no golem, no girders


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## Beast (Oct 31, 2021)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> how much metal does Kidd have in this hypothetical fight ?
> 
> no metal = no golem, no girders


Where else but an island where everything is made of basic and cheap steel.


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## TrolonoaZoro (Oct 31, 2021)

Beast said:


> For a mere second, not sure what it is that you don’t seem to understand. Zoro didn’t tank Hakai, he was saved by Law, so how much of this extremely more powerful attack did he slow down or tank? Because the attacks aim never change.
> 
> You stupid bruh.
> Zoro didn’t tank the whole attack, so what do we do from here.
> ...


Fair enough. That explains why you brought Killer. Since we all know that we can measure how damaging Zoro's power is relative to Kidd by.. how Zoro reacted to getting stabbed by killer? Checks out.



Jay. said:


> it's not tanking he used his swords to block it. stop uneccessary pee pee slurping. kidd gave him props for not dying. it was cool. it was brave. cool leadership moment. it's ridiclious to create a hype around it in this manner, especially cause the man broke all his bones in the process and was out for a lot of chapters afterwards.








I'm pretty sure Oda was coaching a specific take on that exchange.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## truedetectiveseason2intro (Oct 31, 2021)

Oda Report said:


> It's all because  of the z boys an I rite.


That they’re overrated? Yeah.


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## Oda Report (Oct 31, 2021)

truedetectiveseason2intro said:


> That they’re overrated? Yeah.



Watch out yall its the Fanbase Police. 

We better start hating on Zoro and downplaying whats happening in the story before this guy starts handing out reactions.

Reactions: Funny 2


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## truedetectiveseason2intro (Oct 31, 2021)

Oda Report said:


> Watch out yall its the Fanbase Police.
> 
> We better start hating on Zoro and downplaying whats happening in the story before this guy starts handing out reactions.


Zoro has some of the best feats this arc which I said in the initial post

Reactions: Like 1


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## RossellaFiamingo (Oct 31, 2021)

Expecting honesty and self awareness from sword swallowers is like expecting a scorpion to not sting. Zoro has never been portrayed as being on the level of the Top 3 Captains. 

Kidd mid diffs from his df advantage. 

Without it, he wins high diff.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 8 | Winner 1 | Informative 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Oda Report (Oct 31, 2021)

truedetectiveseason2intro said:


> Zoro has some of the best feats this arc which I said in the initial post



So many of us think the same.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Oda Report (Oct 31, 2021)

RossellaFiamingo said:


> Expecting honesty and self awareness from sword swallowers is like expecting a scorpion to not sting. *Zoro has never been portrayed as being on the level of the Top 3 Captains.*



You expect honesty yet the bold is lying out ya ass.

I should of known the Fanbase Police would send back up and hand out them reactions while addressing no arguments made.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 1 | Winner 3 | Optimistic 1


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## Yumi Zoro (Nov 1, 2021)

Oda Report said:


> You expect honesty yet the bold is lying out ya ass.
> 
> I should of known the Fanbase Police would send back up and hand out them reactions while addressing no arguments made.



They want us to be honest yet cant be honest with Zoro.

Their hypocrisy has no limit.

Reactions: Winner 4


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## spawn3 (Nov 1, 2021)

Luffy > Zoro/Kid/Law > Killer

Luffy can use top tier attacks at will.
Zoro has to use Asura Bakkei, and Kid/Law have to use awakening for worthwhile attacks. 

For now, I'd put Asura Bakkei over their awakenings, but I expect to see more from their awakenings, so in the end, they should all be roughly on the same playing field.


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## Oda Report (Nov 1, 2021)

spawn3 said:


> *Luffy > Zoro/Kid/Law > Killer
> 
> Luffy can use top tier attacks at will.*
> Zoro has to use Asura Bakkei, and Kid/Law have to use awakening for worthwhile attacks.
> ...



.........Zoro has proven his attack power is in the same class, Zoro HAD the easiest time on the rooftop being able to damage kaidou at will. Oden is/was wanked off the planet because of being able to cut/scar kaidou, now Zoro surpassed Oden in that aspect we must exclude Zoro. lulz Some of yall got to stop acting like Zoro won't be that guy who will surpass Dark King and Mihawk.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Jay. (Nov 1, 2021)

oda report why you trippin' bro


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## Strobacaxi (Nov 1, 2021)

spawn3 said:


> Zoro has to use Asura Bakkei, and Kid/Law have to use awakening for worthwhile attacks.


Did you miss the attack that BM felt the need to shout to Kaido to dodge? You don't think that's a worthwhile attack? lol

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Oda Report (Nov 1, 2021)

Jay. said:


> oda report why you trippin' bro



My mental is amazing brotheR.


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## Beast (Nov 1, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> Did you miss the attack that BM felt the need to shout to Kaido to dodge? You don't think that's a worthwhile attack? lol


Hard to quantify an attack that never landed at almost point blank range  

and I hope these noobs know this bet is for the end of the arc. No need to get all crazy about it now.


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## Infinite Xero (Nov 2, 2021)

Looking at the names of some of the people that voted for Kidd is kinda funny. How could @Mihawk and @Shanks not support the future WSS. Y'all really thought Kidd would be stronger than the WSS?

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Shanks (Nov 2, 2021)

Infinite Xero said:


> Looking at the names of some of the people that voted for Kidd is kinda funny. How could @Mihawk and @Shanks not support the future WSS. Y'all really thought Kidd would be stronger than the WSS?


80% of OL will support Zoro, so our votes won't change much

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Ren. (Nov 3, 2021)

Shanks said:


> 80% of OL will support Zoro, so our votes won't change much


My vote alone has more weight than 90% of OL

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## Ren. (Nov 3, 2021)

Infinite Xero said:


> Looking at the names of some of the people that voted for Kidd is kinda funny. How could @Mihawk and @Shanks not support the future WSS. Y'all really thought Kidd would be stronger than the WSS?


The PK Roger, WB and Luffy club also supports the Magneto of OP.


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## Mihawk (Nov 3, 2021)

Infinite Xero said:


> Looking at the names of some of the people that voted for Kidd is kinda funny. How could @Mihawk and @Shanks not support the future WSS. Y'all really thought Kidd would be stronger than the WSS?


Eh they’re both great.

It just makes more sense for Kidd to be stronger at this moment in time.


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## Ren. (Nov 3, 2021)

Mihawk said:


> Eh they’re both great.
> 
> It just makes more sense for Kidd to be stronger at this moment in time.


Kid needs to be stronger than Luffy's strongest for him to make any sense in the story.

So does Law with that OP DF.


And Zoro will be strong AF EOS.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Jay. (Nov 3, 2021)

TrolonoaZoro said:


> I don't understand praising Kidd's endurance to be a determining factor for him being stronger than Zoro.
> 
> When Zoro has a much more impressive endurance feat that Kidd himself praised, lmao.
> 
> ...


Kidd's sarcasm is ugly

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Redline (Nov 3, 2021)

just kept on saying this...Kidd got this because his df , no other  motivation


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## Saitama (Nov 3, 2021)

Did we ever go through with a bet in the last couple of years?

Anyway, I voted Kidd just for the fun of it. Logically, he should be stronger due to his previous status as the top supernova captain, but feats say otherwise for the time being.

We will see how things roll.


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## Captain Quincy (Nov 5, 2021)

I don't really care for the bet thing, but I voted Kid because I think awakening and his fight against Big Mom puts him above Zoro for now.

We'll have to see if Zoro powers up any during his fight with King though.


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## Oda Report (Nov 5, 2021)

Kid and Laws bankais were....Cute. *  *

Reactions: Funny 1


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## MrPopo (Nov 5, 2021)

Saitama said:


> Did we ever go through with a bet in the last couple of years?
> 
> Anyway, I voted Kidd just for the fun of it. Logically, he should be stronger due to his previous status as the top supernova captain, but feats say otherwise for the time being.
> 
> We will see how things roll.


I think it happened with the zoro conquers haki bet thread


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## Beast (Nov 5, 2021)

The latest vote was Kidd.  
Tables are turning


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## Redline (Nov 5, 2021)

did i say it? am i repeating myself? lol every day is a brand new day after all...kid got this sorry zoro wankers


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## Redline (Nov 5, 2021)

Beast said:


> The latest vote was Kidd.
> Tables are turning


if we wanna be fair and not biased from faps this is how it should be


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## Oda Report (Nov 5, 2021)

Kids fans really want Kid to have matching arms it seems.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Redline (Nov 5, 2021)

Oda Report said:


> Kids fans really want Kid to have matching arms it seems.


if that's what it takes lol

Reactions: Like 1


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## Beast (Nov 5, 2021)

Oda Report said:


> Kids fans really want Kid to have matching arms it seems.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## HaxHax (Nov 5, 2021)

Oda Report said:


> Kids fans really want Kid to have matching arms it seems.


You don't want Zoro to fall short of _two _characters that fight with no arms do you?

Reactions: Funny 1


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## gunchar (Nov 5, 2021)

Likely Kid by now.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## ShadoLord (Nov 5, 2021)

When they both fight, no amount of convincing will do Kid any good in barring armament haki usage. He's getting rekt.


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## truedetectiveseason2intro (Nov 5, 2021)

Zoro said:


> When they both fight, no amount of convincing will do Kid any good in barring armament haki usage. He's getting rekt.


Who could’ve saw this coming when you brought it up in the telegrams thread


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## Breadman (Nov 6, 2021)

Kidd magnetizes Zolo and he ends up skewering himself on his own blades.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Shiba D. Inu (Nov 6, 2021)

they can fight for 3-rd place while Law sits comfy at #2 strongest Supernova

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Oda Report (Nov 6, 2021)

Breadman said:


> Kidd magnetizes Zolo and he ends up skewering himself on his own blades.



Like with Mom who is still holding her sword.


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## Strobacaxi (Nov 6, 2021)

Breadman said:


> Kidd magnetizes Zolo and he ends up skewering himself on his own blades.


Did he forget to do that to whoever cut off his arm or something?

Reactions: GODA 1


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## Beast (Nov 7, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> Did he forget to do that to whoever cut off his arm or something?


Zoro is as strong as the person who cut off his arm?


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## Oda Report (Nov 7, 2021)

Beast said:


> Zoro is as strong as the person who cut off his arm?



Not quite yet but he will be.

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## Strobacaxi (Nov 7, 2021)

Beast said:


> Zoro is as strong as the person who cut off his arm?


Do you even know who cut off his arm?


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## Beast (Nov 7, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> Do you even know who cut off his arm?



It’s not me trying to assume that kidd did or didn’t do something against the person who took his arm.


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## Strobacaxi (Nov 7, 2021)

Beast said:


> It’s not me trying to assume that kidd did or didn’t do something against the person who took his arm.


I didn't assume. I asked a simple question. For someone who supposedly hard counters every swordman, it's kinda weird his arm is missing


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## Beast (Nov 7, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> I didn't assume. I asked a simple question. For someone who supposedly hard counters every swordman, it's kinda weird his arm is missing


Hard counters? 
I thought he only had an advantage because of how his DF works and who says that it was it was a swordsman that did it? Isn’t the most popular meme Lucky Roo? 
seems like a lot of assumptions in my eyes.


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## A Optimistic (Nov 29, 2021)



Reactions: Funny 8


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## Shiba D. Inu (Nov 29, 2021)

imagine celebrating before the BM fight is over

Reactions: Funny 1 | Winner 1


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## Yumi Zoro (Nov 29, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


>


Thread aged worst than milk



Shiba D. Inu said:


> imagine celebrating before the BM fight is over



Dont worry, there is black blade to seal it.

It will be the finishing blow.

Reactions: Creative 1 | Optimistic 1


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## Great Potato (Nov 29, 2021)

Zoro has performed below my expectations against King, hopefully he can redeem himself with his new power-up.

Reactions: Funny 4


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## HaxHax (Nov 29, 2021)

Sweet Tomato said:


> Thread aged worst than milk



Zoro is fighting a yonko's commander, Kid is fighting a yonko

What am I missing?

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Luffy (Nov 29, 2021)

HaxHax said:


> Zoro is fighting a yonko's commander, Kid is fighting a yonko
> 
> What am I missing?


You seem to be missing Law

Kidd AND Law are fighting a Yonko

Zoro defeating King is certain. Can you say the same for Kidd and Law defeating Big Mom?

Reactions: Funny 2 | Winner 1


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## Klarionan (Nov 29, 2021)

V said:


> You seem to be missing Law
> 
> Kidd AND Law are fighting a Yonko
> 
> Zoro defeating King is certain. Can you say the same for Kidd and Law defeating Big Mom?


Zoro is after defeating King still no match for a Yonko on his own, so what should that prove?

Reactions: Creative 1


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## Luffy (Nov 29, 2021)

Klarionan said:


> Zoro is after defeating King still no match for a Yonko on his own, so what should that prove?


If Zoro is no match for a Yonko by himself, neither is Kidd

So not sure what the point of this post was

Reactions: Agree 3 | Optimistic 2


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## Karma (Nov 29, 2021)

Kidd bros everytime Law does smth to Meme or saves his life

Reactions: Funny 11


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## A Optimistic (Nov 29, 2021)

did sugar touch law and erase him out of existence? Because some of you are acting like he doesn’t exist anymore

Reactions: Funny 1


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## A Optimistic (Nov 29, 2021)

Klarionan said:


> Zoro is after defeating King still no match for a Yonko on his own, so what should that prove?



two Zoro’s can defeat big mom for sure

what’s she gonna do against a double advanced CoC Asura attack?

Reactions: Agree 1 | Tier Specialist 2


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## Great Potato (Nov 29, 2021)

Kid catching and overpowering an overhead double handed Cognac swing from Big Mom


*Spoiler*: __ 









vs

Zoro getting launched across the island by a random flying slash King was wantonly spamming that Queen take with his ass.


*Spoiler*: __ 






Probably would have flown all the way back to East Blue if Franky wasn't there to catch him.

Hell, Zoro has been getting overpowered and sent flying every-time he tries to actually clash with King




This is not the performance that the legion prophesied. Let's not pretend the "Useless Mid" memes wouldn't have been back in full force if he was the one getting pin-balled like this in front of King.

Reactions: Winner 6


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## Strobacaxi (Nov 29, 2021)

Great Potato said:


> Kid catching and overpowering an overhead double handed Cognac swing from Big Mom
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...


Comparing Kidd surprise blocking an attack that wasn't mean for him to Zoro and King fighting head on

Genius

Reactions: Funny 2 | Informative 1


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## Great Potato (Nov 29, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> Comparing Kidd surprise blocking an attack that wasn't mean for him to Zoro and King fighting head on
> 
> Genius



I wasn't aware that attacks lost all of their power if someone else jumped in front of them.

You believe the flaming Napoleon + Prometheus double hand swing from Big Mom is weaker than one of those random slashes King was sending out several of at a time willy nilly? You feel that would have been Queen's reaction if Big Mom slammed her blade into his backside like that?

Reactions: Winner 1


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## T.D.A (Nov 29, 2021)

Great Potato said:


> Kid catching and overpowering an overhead double handed Cognac swing from Big Mom
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...



You think that particular sword swing has more force behind it than flying wing slashes from a Pteranodon Lunarian beast?


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## Klarionan (Nov 29, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> two Zoro’s can defeat big mom for sure
> 
> what’s she gonna do against a double advanced CoC Asura attack?


 if Kidd and Law  with the latter's amazing hax don't win, 2 Zoro's with their shitty hax have even less of a chance.

Getting damaged, powering herself up, and ramming the most wanked pirate ever into the ground, twice.


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## Strobacaxi (Nov 29, 2021)

Klarionan said:


> if Kidd and Law with the latter's amazing hax don't win, 2 Zoro's with their shitty hax have even less of a chance.


AdCoC > Hax

Just ask Luffy

Reactions: Agree 2


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## A Optimistic (Nov 29, 2021)

Klarionan said:


> if Kidd and Law  with the latter's amazing hax don't win, 2 Zoro's with their shitty hax have even less of a chance.
> 
> Getting damaged, powering herself up, and ramming the most wanked pirate ever into the ground, twice.



"shitty hax"

big mom sure seems to be terrified of zoro's "shitty hax"

and this was a zoro before his power up

two zoros would 100% defeat big mom and you know it


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## A Optimistic (Nov 29, 2021)

Great Potato said:


> Kid catching and overpowering an overhead double handed Cognac swing from Big Mom
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...



bringing up zoro's pre-advanced coc feats is like bringing up sanji's feats before his recent power up or kidd's rooftop feats before his new awakening powerup

zoro is a new man now


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## Klarionan (Nov 29, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> Addo > Hax
> 
> Just ask Luffy


Did we not lately have enough of this bullshit already


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## A Optimistic (Nov 29, 2021)

Klarionan said:


> Did we not lately have enough of this bullshit already



bet you were hyping up advanced coc when big mom was one shotting page one with it

but now it's not hype when someone you dont like gets it huh


----------



## Klarionan (Nov 29, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> "shitty hax"
> 
> big mom sure seems to be terrified of zoro's "shitty hax"
> 
> ...


And in the end it did nothing more than giving Kaido yet another scar, but sure a Yonko is totally terrified of someone who first needs a power up to not get trashed by a Yonko underling anymore, that sounds totally reasonable

The only thing i know is that Zoro is the most overrated One Piece character ever, and that you delusional fanboys of him ruin any One Piece discussion.

Reactions: Lewd 1


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## A Optimistic (Nov 29, 2021)

Klarionan said:


> And in the end it did nothing more than giving Kaido yet another scar, but sure a Yonko is totally terrified of someone who first needs a power up to not get trashed by a Yonko underling anymore, that sounds totally reasonable
> 
> The only thing i know is that Zoro is the most overrated One Piece character ever, and that you delusional fanboys of him ruin any One Piece discussion.



good good, so you admit that a 30 broken bone zoro can scar a yonko

now what do you think two healthy zoros with advanced coc can do to a yonko if they use asura?

cmon this is a simple math question, i know you can figure it out

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Klarionan (Nov 29, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> bet you were hyping up advanced coc when big mom was one shotting page one with it
> 
> but now it's not hype when someone you dont like gets it huh


Call yourself lucky that i take no bets.

I like Zoro more than Big Mom you daydreamer, but Zoro has the dumbest and most obnoxious fanboys out of all One Piece characters.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## A Optimistic (Nov 29, 2021)

Klarionan said:


> Call yourself lucky that i take no bets.
> 
> I like Zoro more than Big Mom you daydreamer, but Zoro has the dumbest and most obnoxious fanboys out of all One Piece characters.



dont think you're in any position to call anyone dumb if you can't even figure out that two advanced coc healthy zoros would beat big mom

Reactions: Tier Specialist 2


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## Oda Report (Nov 29, 2021)

Kid loses. 

Pay up suckas


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## Klarionan (Nov 29, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> good good, so you admit that a 30 broken bone zoro can scar a yonko
> 
> now what do you think two healthy zoros with advanced coc can do to a yonko if they use asura?
> 
> cmon this is a simple math question, i know you can figure it out


A not broken bones Zoro couldn't perform any stronger technique.

With advanced coc maybe cause some true damage, that isn't mostly just a cosmetic issue, which puts them into the range of having the attack power of a Yonko at best.


I just figured out that Zoro fanboys don't even understand their own logic

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Klarionan (Nov 29, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> dont think you're in any position to call anyone dumb if you can't even figure out that two advanced coc healthy zoros would beat big mom


i call Zoro fanboys dumb for wanking Zoro so much, and your response is to wank Zoro yet again.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## A Optimistic (Nov 29, 2021)

Klarionan said:


> A not broken bones Zoro couldn't perform any stronger technique.



did you just say that a 30 broken bone zoro can do the same amount of damage as zoro without 30 broken bones? and you're calling other people a dumb?

good lord, talk about ironic









Klarionan said:


> With advanced coc maybe cause some true damage, that isn't mostly just a cosmetic issue, which puts them into the range of having the attack power of a Yonko at best.
> 
> 
> I just figured out that Zoro fanboys don't even understand their own logic



so 1 zoro has the range of an attack power of a yonko at best

now then...what happens when you add a second zoro

you're very close to solving this math problem, i believe in you

Reactions: Funny 2


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## A Optimistic (Nov 29, 2021)

Klarionan said:


> i call Zoro fanboys dumb for wanking Zoro so much, and your response is to wank Zoro yet again.



how is saying big mom would lose to 2 zoro's wanking? you still haven't explained to me what Big mom will do when both zoro's use asura with advanced coc

why can't you answer a simple question if all i'm doing is "dumb wanking"

what is big mom going to do when both zoro's use advanced coc asura? explain


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## Klarionan (Nov 29, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> did you just say that a 30 broken bone zoro can do the same amount of damage as zoro without 30 broken bones? and you're calling other people a dumb?
> 
> good lord, talk about ironic



I just told you what anyone who don't gets a hard on from seeing green haired guys knows already, and your example just proves that you are literally too dumb to understand what Asura was.



> so 1 zoro has the range of an attack power of a yonko at best



Lol no, 2 Zoro's have.



> now then...what happens when you add a second zoro



Nothing, you just can't read.



> you're very close to solving this math problem, i believe in you



A Optimistic + Zoro wank = You are a total moron.


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## A Optimistic (Nov 29, 2021)

Klarionan said:


> I just told you what anyone who don't gets a hard on from seeing green haired guys knows already, and your example just proves that you are literally too dumb to understand what Asura was.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



"i can't rebuttal anything you're saying so im just going to call you names"

nice mental breakdown, we enjoyed the show

Reactions: Funny 2 | Winner 3


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## Klarionan (Nov 29, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> how is saying big mom would lose to 2 zoro's wanking? you still haven't explained to me what Big mom will do when both zoro's use asura with advanced coc
> 
> why can't you answer a simple question if all i'm doing is "dumb wanking"
> 
> what is big mom going to do when both zoro's use advanced coc asura? explain


I did at the start already, but i know you can't read, so again: Getting damaged, powering herself up, and ramming the most wanked pirate ever into the ground, twice.

i did.

Getting damaged, powering herself up, and ramming the most wanked pirate ever into the ground, twice.


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## Klarionan (Nov 29, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> "i can't rebuttal anything you're saying so im just going to call you names"
> 
> nice mental breakdown, we enjoyed the show


Nice picture, fits your mental age, but you should really learn to read.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## A Optimistic (Nov 29, 2021)

Klarionan said:


> I did at the start already, but i know you can't read, so again: Getting damaged, powering herself up, and ramming the most wanked pirate ever into the ground, twice.
> 
> i did.
> 
> Getting damaged, powering herself up, and ramming the most wanked pirate ever into the ground, twice.



she aint ramming shit LMAO

an asura from a 30 broken bone zoro is enough to scar kaido

so two asura's from healthy zoro's mixed in with advancec coc is going to have her injured badly

then they will finish her off

simple

she can't beat law/kidd, she can't beat two zoro's

shes overrated


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## A Optimistic (Nov 29, 2021)

@Klarionan 

look at how big mom struggles to deal with two people at once, you would know this if you read the manga  


look at how big mom leaves herself completely vulnerable to law while she is attacking kidd 






look at how big mom leaves herself open to kidd while trying to attack law








but somehow you've performed enough mental gymnastics to think big mom can beat two zoro's?


imagine being unable to interpret cartoon images but thinking you can call other people dumb

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Klarionan (Nov 29, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> she aint ramming shit LMAO
> 
> an asura from a 30 broken bone zoro is enough to scar kaido
> 
> ...


Oh let me guess, your next claim is that Zoro the same guy who just got ragdolled by a Yonko underling, can somehow no-sell a Yonko

Yeah, so what?

Do you even understand how far away a scar from badly injured is, especially in One Piece?

Or, the more likely scenario, she starts to take them as serious as she takes Awakened Kidd and Law, powers up, and smacks the Zorro's into the ground like she according to the start of this will do to Kidd and Law.

and wrong.

So you didn't even read what my first reply was truly about, that shouldn't surprise me with your lacking reading capabilities i guess. But no so far either of the duos loses by what they have truly shown already, but that might change with the conclusions of their fights.

you just called Big Mom of all characters overrated, in defense of Zoro of all characters, on this forum, now i know that your delusions are over 9000.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## A Optimistic (Nov 29, 2021)

Klarionan said:


> Oh let me guess, your next claim is that Zoro the same guy who just got ragdolled by a Yonko underling, can somehow no-sell a Yonko




post a panel of zoro getting ragdolled after he got his latest powerup. otherwise this isn't relevant




Klarionan said:


> Yeah, so what?
> 
> Do you even understand how far away a scar from badly injured is, especially in One Piece?



do you understand how much stronger two asuras from two healthy zoro's with advanced coc is compared to a scar from 1 zoro with 30 broken bones?




Klarionan said:


> Or, the more likely scenario, she starts to take them as serious as she takes Awakened Kidd and Law, powers up, and smacks the Zorro's into the ground like she according to the start of this will do to Kidd and Law.




cute fanfiction.



Klarionan said:


> and wrong.
> 
> So you didn't even read what my first reply was truly about, that shouldn't surprise me with your lacking reading capabilities i guess. But no so far either of the duos loses, but that might change with the conclusion of their fights.




explain exactly what big mom has shown so far to indicate that she wins. she already showed she doesn't have the attention span to focus on 1 fighter infront of her and 1 fighter infront of her, something that you conveniently ignored




Klarionan said:


> you just called Big Mom of all characters overrated, in defense of Zoro of all characters, on this forum, now i know that your delusions are over 9000.



of course big mom is more overrated than zoro.

i got no problem admitting big mom would beat zoro in a 1v1 fight. you on the other hand have lost your sanity and actually think big mom is stronger than kidd/law or two zoro's

Reactions: Funny 2 | Optimistic 1


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## MrAnalogies (Nov 29, 2021)

I refuse to vote until Kid's battle with BM is over.

If Oda is really pushing for this Luffy/Kid parallel like they're actually rivals and Luffy beats kaido while kid takes down BM (Law leaving the battle) then I'll be able to to decide on Kidd/Zoro. 

Right now it's a little too ambiguous.


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## Shanks (Nov 29, 2021)

You really have a tone of energy @A Optimistic . You have even more energy than @Duhul10 during a Kaido chapter.

Reactions: Funny 1 | Friendly 1


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## Klarionan (Nov 29, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> @Klarionan
> 
> look at how big mom struggles to deal with two people at once, you would know this if you read the manga
> 
> ...


You mean the same 2 people i talked about having a better chance than 2 Zoro's, because of hax?

And yet they couldn't defeat her at all so far, do you even understand what you are talking about?

You are right, Zoro just got trashed by a Yonko underling, as he didn't let himself open
You just gave me even more reasons to call you dumb


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## A Optimistic (Nov 29, 2021)

Klarionan said:


> You mean the same 2 people i talked about having a better chance than 2 Zoro's, because of hax?
> 
> And yet they couldn't defeat her at all so far, do you even understand what you are talking about?
> 
> ...



what does hax have anything to do with the panels i posted? big mom is choosing to completely disregard law while attacking kidd. big mom is choosing to disregard kidd while attacking to law

hax has nothing to do with it. big mom is just a dumbass who can't focus on 1 person behind her and 1 person infront of her

hax has nothing to do with it LMAO

how are you struggling to understand something so simple,  jesus christ

show me how hax is the reason big mom chooses to completely ignore one of the fighters


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## Klarionan (Nov 29, 2021)

Shanks said:


> You really have a tone of energy @A Optimistic . You have even more energy than @Duhul10 during a Kaido chapter.


That is true his delusions power level is over 9000.


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## A Optimistic (Nov 29, 2021)

Klarionan said:


> That is true his delusions power level is over 9000.



when big mom tries to attack 1 zoro, is she going to leave herself vulnerable to the other zoro? yes or no?

i know this question is too complicated for big mom, so let's see how you handle it


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## Great Potato (Nov 29, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> bringing up zoro's pre-advanced coc feats is like bringing up sanji's feats before his recent power up or kidd's rooftop feats before his new awakening powerup
> 
> zoro is a new man now



Post Zoro doesn't have any feats yet.

Though I'm a bit surprised by your enthusiasm about Zoro's new power-up considering the other week you claimed it would be an embarrassment if Zoro needed a power-up to take down a YC1 like King. 



A Optimistic said:


> i hope it's not a repeat of mr.1
> 
> zoro was weaker than mr.1 before their fight started and had to get a powerup at the end of the fight
> 
> ...


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## A Optimistic (Nov 29, 2021)

Great Potato said:


> Post Zoro doesn't have any feats yet.
> 
> Though I'm a bit surprised by your enthusiasm about Zoro's new power-up considering the other week you claimed it would be an embarrassment if Zoro needed a power-up to take down a YC1 like King.



why would i not be enthusiastic about zoro's new power up? everyone who's displayed zoro's advanced coc before zoro has, has been a top tier, correct? so why would i not be enthusiastic about zoro getting advanced coc. there's precedence of greatness from everyone else who's displayed it

and yes, zoro's performance against king has been garbage and disappointing, what about it? he's got an advanced coc powerup now so it's a new day. gotta focus on the bright side and not the negative side in new situations


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## A Optimistic (Nov 29, 2021)

you seem to think i'm defending zoro's performance before the power up, but im not


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## Shanks (Nov 29, 2021)

Tbh, i think Kid and Law can beat Big Mom, and so doesn't two advance CoC Zoro.


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## Louis-954 (Nov 29, 2021)

Was a dumb thread when it was made and it's a dumb thread now.

Who is going to decide which of them is "stronger"? Oda isn't going to outright say it. 95% of you are bias, so it can't be someone from the OL who decides it either.


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## gunchar (Nov 29, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> of course big mom is more overrated than zoro.




Bruh..., what funny stuff did you smoke today?


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## Luffy (Nov 29, 2021)

gunchar said:


> Bruh..., what funny stuff did you smoke today?


fam why you pulling up memes from 2007

Reactions: Funny 3


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## Klarionan (Nov 29, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> post a panel of zoro getting ragdolled after he got his latest powerup. otherwise this isn't relevant
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I do that after you post Zoro's new and better durability feats after his power up, otherwise that isn't relevant either.

No, please show me feats?

Funny, considering that your entire argument for Zoro is fanfiction so far.

This is how Kidd and Law look like from fighting Big Mom so far:



and now they will fight an even stronger Big Mom:



I have not much hope for you, but the math on this is so easy, even you could be able to get it.

How is it even possible to be that delusional, just how, i just want to understand how someone could even think something this crazy?

Anyone who for a second even thinks about Zoro 1v1 defeating a Yonko shouldn't even be able to sign up for a forum, that is no accomplishment. Big Mom so far is obviously stronger than Kidd and Law, and the same would be so far true for 2 Zoro's, it is not sane to believe into your own fanfiction.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## gunchar (Nov 29, 2021)

V said:


> fam why you pulling up memes from 2007


The classics man, and it just fits so well.


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## gunchar (Nov 29, 2021)

To the fight. We need to wait for the Big Mom and King fight to continue, to properly answer this but Kid has a quite good match up here.


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## January (Nov 29, 2021)

Clearly Kid, Zoro won't have the strength to stand up the end of arc


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## Klarionan (Nov 29, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> what does hax have anything to do with the panels i posted? big mom is choosing to completely disregard law while attacking kidd. big mom is choosing to disregard kidd while attacking to law
> 
> hax has nothing to do with it. big mom is just a dumbass who can't focus on 1 person behind her and 1 person infront of her
> 
> ...


Yeah, so what?

And she is powerful enough to get away with it, unlike Kidd, Law, and Zoro.

Hax has to do with the reason why Kidd and Law have a better chance than 2 Zoro's.

I really just struggle to understand why you are so delusional  

This has no relevance.


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## neonlight (Nov 29, 2021)

Depending on King having AdCoC, how Zoro finishes him off and BM fight, I would wait before deciding on EoW Kidd and Zoro.

Right now, based on feats (and Kidd's own acknowledgement), Zoro edges.


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## Klarionan (Nov 29, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> when big mom tries to attack 1 zoro, is she going to leave herself vulnerable to the other zoro? yes or no?
> 
> i know this question is too complicated for big mom, so let's see how you handle it


Depends, especially because we don't even know how she fights now after the power up.

Against you looks even Big Mom like the reincarnation of Albert Einstein


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## A Optimistic (Nov 29, 2021)

gunchar said:


> Bruh..., what funny stuff did you smoke today?



she is more overrated than zoro

you're not gonna see most zoro fans say that zoro defeats 2 queens (feel free to replace queen with another character if you want)

you can definitely expect a bunch of big mom fans to say stupid shit like how she's gonna beat law/kidd or 2 zoro's.


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## A Optimistic (Nov 29, 2021)

Klarionan said:


> Yeah, so what?
> 
> And she is powerful enough to get away with it, unlike Kidd, Law, and Zoro.



how was she powerful enough to get away with it when she straight up said this was the most damage she's received in decades and had to remove 1 year of her life span

thats the complete opposite of being powerful enough to get away with it





Klarionan said:


> Hax has to do with the reason why Kidd and Law have a better chance than 2 Zoro's.




hax has nothing to do with why she doesn't pay attention to someone behind her






Klarionan said:


> I really just struggle to understand why you are so delusional
> 
> This has no relevance.



if you can't see why big mom not paying attention to someone behind her is relevant in a discussion about a 2v1 then you're hopeless



ill give you a hint though, everytime she attempts to attack  zoro # 1 infront of her, all zoro # 2 has to do is attack her from behind.


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## gunchar (Nov 29, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> she is more overrated than zoro


This is pretty much like claiming Netflix Jessica Jones is more overrated than Saitama XD... Big Mom is even a quite hated character and was pretty much always the most underrated Emporer from the very start, while Zoro is absolutely beloved and frequently one of the most overrated of them all.


A Optimistic said:


> you're not gonna see most zoro fans say that zoro defeats 2 queens


Big Mom most certainly could do that while Zoro simply can't, Big Mom and Zoro ain't even in the same tier bro.


A Optimistic said:


> you can definitely expect a bunch of big mom fans to say stupid shit like how she's gonna beat law/kidd or 2 zoro's.


I would be at this point kinda surprised if Oda don't lets Law and Kid somehow win, but it's perfectly logical to believe they don't(cause Oda has kinda written himself into a corner again, with their last resort claims for their awakenings).


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## o0Shinthi0o (Nov 29, 2021)

Z boys when arguing Kid or Law vs Zoro . It's 2v1 and it's a big deal .
Z boys when arguing Marco vs King . 2v1 is not a big deal

Reactions: Funny 4


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## A Optimistic (Nov 29, 2021)

gunchar said:


> This is pretty much like claiming Netflix Jessica Jones is more overrated than Saitama XD... Big Mom is even a quite hated character and was pretty much always the most underrated Emporer from the very start, while Zoro is absolutely beloved and frequently one of the most overrated of them all.
> 
> Big Mom most certainly could do that while Zoro simply can't, Big Mom and Zoro ain't even in the same tier bro.
> 
> I would be at this point kinda surprised if Oda don't lets Law and Kid somehow win, but it's perfectly logical to believe they don't(cause Oda has kinda written himself into a corner again, with their last resort claims for their awakenings).



the queen example was a bad example on my part, you can pick some other character if you want and zoro would probably lose to them in a 2v1 also

anyways from the 3 big mom fans i've talked to regularly (klari, mo, and rosella), i definitely think the big girl is overrated. constantly treated as kaido's equal despite not sharing his title, fantasies about how luffy will be the first one to make her bleed, fantasies about how she's gonna defeat kidd/law, steal kaido's road poneglyph and be the main villain for elbalf, ect ect. ive heard it all from these 3 gentlemen. if big mom has more realistic fans then point me in their direction


as for zoro, i dont think he's overrated at all. he's just spent the last 6 chapters getting his ass kicked by a yc1, what's there to overrate him about?


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## A Optimistic (Nov 29, 2021)

o0Shinthi0o said:


> Z boys when arguing Kid or Law vs Zoro . It's 2v1 and it's a big deal .
> Z boys when arguing Marco vs King . 2v1 is not a big deal



did mbxx take away your quote button? use it next time if you got something to say 

marco's fruit allowing to last longer in 2v1s compared to other people on his level is why it's not a big deal, i already told you this before


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## ClannadFan (Nov 29, 2021)

For now Zoro is stronger. Kidd was stronger until the most recent chapter. I expect Kidd to be stronger by the End of Wano. Being Luffy's Rival is nothing to sneeze at. I know the idea has been laughed by at many on here, but now knowing that Kidd was holding back on the rooftop shows that he really wasn't ever that far behind Luffy.


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## A Optimistic (Nov 29, 2021)

ClannadFan said:


> For now Zoro is stronger. Kidd was stronger until the most recent chapter. I expect Kidd to be stronger by the End of Wano. Being Luffy's Rival is nothing to sneeze at. I know the idea has been laughed by at many on here, but now knowing that Kidd was holding back on the rooftop shows that he really wasn't ever that far behind Luffy.



kidd can't even land his awakening on big mom without law's help

kidd is very far behind luffy. they aren't rivals at all.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2 | Funny 2


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## ClannadFan (Nov 29, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> kidd can't even land his awakening on big mom without law's help
> 
> kidd is very far behind luffy. they aren't rivals at all.


I mean neither could Pre AdvCoC Luffy. He got KO'd by Kaido in like 2 seconds. I'm not arguing about Kidd vs Current Luffy, since I expect Kidd to get another power up. I'm not so sure if Luffy will.

Reactions: Like 1


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## A Optimistic (Nov 29, 2021)

ClannadFan said:


> I mean neither could Pre AdvCoC Luffy. He got KO'd by Kaido in like 2 seconds. I'm not arguing about Kidd vs Current Luffy, since I expect Kidd to get another power up. I'm not so sure if Luffy will.



if kidd gets another power up, then luffy will get another power up

i dont think the gap is ever changing, luffy will always be quite a bit stronger than the other supernovas


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## ClannadFan (Nov 29, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> if kidd gets another power up, then luffy will get another power up
> 
> i dont think the gap is ever changing, luffy will always be quite a bit stronger than the other supernovas


My point is, since Kidd was compareable to Pre Adv CoC Luffy, that means he was a true Rival for Luffy up until the point of Luffy unlocking AdvCoC. That's why I think it's weird how people dismiss the idea of him being a Rival, since he Rivaled him in power for 1010 chapters. With a chance of him catching up again if Oda decides to give him AdvCoC.


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## Great Potato (Nov 29, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> you seem to think i'm defending zoro's performance before the power up, but im not



Nice to know where you stand.

I suppose that doesn't leave much for us to discuss then until we see Zoro's new feats.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## gunchar (Nov 29, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> the queen example was a bad example on my part, you can pick some other character if you want and zoro would probably lose to them in a 2v1 also


Okay.


A Optimistic said:


> anyways from the 3 big mom fans i've talked to regularly (klari, mo, and rosella), i definitely think the big girl is overrated.


Uhm if just 3 people overrate a character, that character is most likely not very overrated.


A Optimistic said:


> constantly treated as kaido's equal despite not sharing his title


Ehhh she shares the more important official title of Emporer with him and there are quite some problems with his other inofficial title, but even Oda threats them anyways as near equals at worst in all his direct comparisons and interactions regardless if we go with Kaido's inofficial title.


A Optimistic said:


> fantasies about how luffy will be the first one to make her bleed


This wouldn't be just a fantasy but even straight up denial at this point, Law was the first.


A Optimistic said:


> fantasies about how she's gonna defeat kidd/law


It's still perfectly logical to believe that.


A Optimistic said:


> steal kaido's road poneglyph


Uhm okay, but what has that even to do with overrating anyone?


A Optimistic said:


> and be the main villain for elbalf


I highly doubt that.


A Optimistic said:


> ive heard it all from these 3 gentlemen. if big mom has more realistic fans then point me in their direction


Some of these takes don't even sound too bad, and if that are anyways just 3 people can't be Big Mom very overrated.


A Optimistic said:


> as for zoro, i dont think he's overrated at all.


Oh come on bro, are you new to One Piece forums? Especially if you believe that even Big Mom is overrated(and apparently mostly based on just 3 people), is it just absurd to claim Zoro is not overrated at all(he has a gigantic fanbase, and due to that also quite a few fanboys).


A Optimistic said:


> he's just spent the last 6 chapters getting his ass kicked by a yc1, what's there to overrate him about?


Huh??? Bro you can overrate any character, especially if they perform poorly.


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## A Optimistic (Nov 29, 2021)

gunchar said:


> Uhm if just 3 people overrate a character, that character is most likely not very overrated.



i dont know any other big mom fans


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## o0Shinthi0o (Nov 29, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> did mbxx take away your quote button? use it next time if you got something to say
> 
> marco's fruit allowing to last longer in 2v1s compared to other people on his level is why it's not a big deal, i already told you this before


Was not directed at u , I was talking about this argument in general . 

U would have a point if Marco was just taking damage & healing and not go in offense .


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## A Optimistic (Nov 29, 2021)

Great Potato said:


> Nice to know where you stand.
> 
> I suppose that doesn't leave much for us to discuss then until we see Zoro's new feats.



so here's my thoughts on zoro vs kidd:

so before chapter 1033, i thought they were both nearly equals, both of them managed to injure a yonko. i'd say zoro would win with extreme difficulty. very, very close in strength.

however after chapter 1033, I think zoro has taken a step forward. i think highly of advanced coc (kaido's words + every other advanced coc user being a top tier) so i can't see how zoro and kidd are comparable at the present moment.

there are a few options we can go from here though:

option 1: zoro still struggles to defeat king despite unlocking advanced coc (assuming king also doesnt have the same ability). if that happens, then that means i overestimated how much stronger the ability made zoro

option 2: kidd unlocked advanced coc this arc. if that happens, i'd probably put kidd _ahead _of zoro, because showing advanced coc + awakening is a lot in one arc. assuming zoro doesn't get another powerup this arc

there are other options of course but yeah those are the two main options

i know people in this thread like to pretend that zoro fans won't ever admit kidd is superior this arc, but that's not true. there are several ways kidd could end up superior to zoro before this arc ends, the question is if oda will make it happen or not 


here's my questions to you:

1) how do you think current zoro and current kidd stack up against each other? 

2) what would have to happen for you to admit zoro > kidd at the end of wano?


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## A Optimistic (Nov 29, 2021)

gunchar said:


> Okay.
> 
> Uhm if just 3 people overrate a character, that character is most likely not very overrated.



are u arguing which fanbase has more people saying silly stuff, or which fanbase says the more ridiculous stuff? those are two different things






gunchar said:


> Ehhh she shares the more important official title of Emporer with him and there are quite some problems with his other inofficial title, but even Oda threats them anyways as near equals at worst in all his direct comparisons and interactions regardless if we go with Kaido's inofficial title.



kaido's title isn't inofficial. it's stated in the manga, in the databook, and by several characters. his title is real and official. and even after big mom showed her new soul ability, there were several people thinking it's possible she could be above him or equal to him.




gunchar said:


> This wouldn't be just a fantasy but even straight up denial at this point, Law was the first.



no i meant they had this idea before law hurt her. it was a ridiculous idea because they thought kidd and law couldn't make her ever bleed





gunchar said:


> It's still perfectly logical to believe that.



no its not




gunchar said:


> Uhm okay, but what has that even to do with overrating anyone?



she has to win before she betrays anyone and she isnt winning 



gunchar said:


> I highly doubt that.



glad we agree








gunchar said:


> Oh come on bro, are you new to One Piece forums? Especially if you believe that even Big Mom is overrated(and apparently mostly based on just 3 people), is it just absurd to claim Zoro is not overrated at all(he has a gigantic fanbase, and due to that also quite a few fanboys).



im not saying zoro isn't overrated, some people overrate him, but some people view his power level at a normal level. it's a mixed bag.

all im saying is all the big mom fans ive interacted with like to overestimate her

i even asked you if you knew of any big mom fans who didn't overestimate her but you didnt give me any names 



gunchar said:


> Huh??? Bro you can overrate any character, especially if they perform poorly.



okay so what overrating statements were made about zoro while he was getting his ass kicked by 5 chapters? examples?

that being said, i know some people overrate zoro but some zoro fans also dont overrate him. i haven't met a big mom fan who doesnt overrate her but i'd love to meet that kind of person one day


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## Great Potato (Nov 29, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> here's my questions to you:
> 
> 1) how do you think current zoro and current kidd stack up against each other?
> 
> 2) what would have to happen for you to admit zoro > kidd at the end of wano?



1) It's hard for me to gauge Zoro's current level next to Kid because we haven't seen his aCoC in action. I've generally had the RT5 rather close in strength and I believe I stated earlier that I could see the winner of Kid and Zoro coming down to circumstances of the match-up because Kid's strength is somewhat of a variable depending on how much metal he has available. For the purposes of the thread I take it as Kid who has a lot of metal available as we want to judge them at full power, but I imagine Zoro will have the advantage in areas without metal and Kid edges where there is metal in abundance. That's without getting into the potential effects on magnetism on Zoro's swords as a potential counter because that's a headache of a territory.

For the record I already had Zoro comfortably beating King beforehand in a thread that has not aged the best...

If Zoro cleans him up now then he mainly just entered the territory that I already anticipated him to be beforehand. 

2) I anticipate Kid taking down and continuing to get feats against an amped version of Big Mom, which is going to be hard to top, especially if Zoro's run this arc stops at King. If Kid ends up dropping the ball and not delivering against BM or Zoro jumps back in the ring against the Emperor's for more work then those are Zoro's best shots.

Reactions: Like 3


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## Rp4lyf (Nov 30, 2021)

ClannadFan said:


> I mean neither could Pre AdvCoC Luffy. He got KO'd by Kaido in like 2 seconds. I'm not arguing about Kidd vs Current Luffy, since I expect Kidd to get another power up. I'm not so sure if Luffy will.


Stop making up massive lies Pre adv coc took a while for Kiado to ko luffy. Base uffy was even fighting for a while, with hybrid kaido dodging base luffy before he even got ad coc, indicating how devstating base luffy's attacks are.


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## Jay. (Nov 30, 2021)

"kaido dodge! that's not your average sword!" 

enma hype


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## Beast (Nov 30, 2021)

I think it’s becoming more and more clear how fearful people are becoming of kidds inevitable panel time that is to come, makes sense why Z boys rush here after any Zoro chapters praying and hoping this will be enough. 



No amount of King wank or Marco downplay you squeeze out of your ass is saving Zoro from CAPTAIN Kidd.

Reactions: Funny 1 | Optimistic 2


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## ClannadFan (Nov 30, 2021)

Rp4lyf said:


> Stop making up massive lies Pre adv coc took a while for Kiado to ko luffy. Base uffy was even fighting for a while, with hybrid kaido dodging base luffy before he even got ad coc, indicating how devstating base luffy's attacks are.




This was the entire 1v1. Stop reading Two Piece.


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## Great Potato (Nov 30, 2021)

MrAnalogies said:


> I refuse to vote until Kid's battle with BM is over.
> 
> If Oda is really pushing for this Luffy/Kid parallel like they're actually rivals and Luffy beats kaido while kid takes down BM (Law leaving the battle) then I'll be able to to decide on Kidd/Zoro.
> 
> Right now it's a little too ambiguous.



This the kind of guy who shows up at a sporting event trying to place his bet when the games already over.

Reactions: Funny 5


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## HaxHax (Nov 30, 2021)

Interesting how a certain members of this forum have rescaled yonkos from "being able to beat any number of commanders" to "will lose to two commanders" because Zoro fought a commander..

Reactions: Funny 5 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Beast (Nov 30, 2021)

HaxHax said:


> Interesting how a certain members of this forum have rescaled yonkos from "being able to beat any number of commanders" to "will lose to two commanders" because Zoro fought a commander..


And Zoro got green hair, what else is there?


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## MrAnalogies (Nov 30, 2021)

Great Potato said:


> This the kind of guy who shows up at a sporting event trying to place his bet when the games already over.


But the circumstances/context of the win are very important in anime. 

Luffy vs katakauri for instance. Very ambiguous ending, wouldn't you agree?

If Kidd vs BM ends in a very ambiguous manner, it makes the discussion of how he compares to Zoro (who has presumably beaten king at this point) that much more difficult to assess. Especially if Law continues to help him.


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## Strobacaxi (Nov 30, 2021)

HaxHax said:


> Interesting how a certain members of this forum have rescaled yonkos from "being able to beat any number of commanders" to "will lose to two commanders" because Zoro fought a commander..


Maybe because we were seeing YC1s as one shottable by Kaido and now see YC1s overpowering a guy who scarred Kaido while half dead?

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Jay. (Dec 1, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> Maybe because we were seeing YC1s as one shottable by Kaido and now see YC1s overpowering a guy who scarred Kaido while half dead?


wouldn't it be easier to admit that rooftop zoro was not on the level so many desired and molded into their headcanon? how about overstanding kaido's wisdom when he reacts to zoro's attack? 

the truth has set us all free


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## Lmao (Dec 1, 2021)

Each time one gets a chapter focused on them the opinions swing in their favor


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## Kingslayer (Dec 1, 2021)

I still think kidd will do something  special. 

He has CoC as well it will be interesting to se how it goes .


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## Tenma (Dec 1, 2021)

Kidd squashes Zoro before the powerup if he was getting clapped by a base King

Remains to be seen with current Zoro

still not as many plot twists as the zoro vs yamato narrative


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## Mylesime (Dec 1, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> Maybe because we were seeing YC1s as one shottable by Kaido and now see YC1s overpowering a guy who scarred Kaido while half dead?



YC1s were never casually One shottable by Yonkos that is the whole point.

We had alreadyseen Marco in numerous occasions against top tiers, and we all witnessed:
1)How much Bullshit went on during Katakuri VS Luffy.
2) How Luffy jobbed vs Kaido at Kuri without Future Sight (something that already happened to Katakuri who lost his cool in the mirror world)






It wasn't required, it should not have come to this, aka Zoro getting manhandled briefly to realize that Yonkos weren't that far apart from their strongest commanders (cf Marinford), or that they could not wipe out their entire empire by themselves for example.
Plenty of evidence that made those takes nonsensical from the get go, Grandmaster involved or not.....


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## Beast (Dec 1, 2021)

@Mylesime 
I still think Kaidou/ BM and WB (without Oden) could run through their crew. 

Not sure why anything that was already established needs to change because Zoro got beat up.


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## Mylesime (Dec 1, 2021)

Beast said:


> @Mylesime
> I still think Kaidou/ BM and WB (without Oden) could run through their crew.
> 
> Not sure why anything that was already established needs to change because Zoro got beat up.



No way.
This thread will likely not have a conclusive answer because truth be told, Zoro and Kidd are very close to each other, one step behind Luffy. We've seen this type of dynamic ad nauseam: Admirals VS Yonkos, Shanks VS Mihawk,etc,etc
With awakening Eustass got a power up that matches adv CoC since he fucked up with Law Big Mom (she used 1 year of her life to recover.)
What Kidd and Law are currently doing, i'm convinced that an hypothetical tag team with Zoro and King could match to some extent that performance. With Zoro's AP and King's durability alone.
We've also seen those three supernovas, side by side, before  their power ups, they are close in strength that's undeniable.

If we assume that the Yonkos are that far apart form their strongest commanders, Marineford becomes a complete joke, Whitebeard went there (without knowing that Luffy, jinbei, Ivankov and co were joining) basically accomapanied with 3 commanders who would be fodders?
There is no point using a distraction as an explanation for Joz and Marco's defeats either (something used for Oden against Kaido at Udon).
Vista stalling Mihawk, Joz intervening to intercept Mihawk's attacks (aimed at the WSM and in order to gauge the gap with the WSS), Whitebeard leaving Ao Kiji to Joz, etc,etc.
Yami Teach surviving then relying on his men to end Newgates' life, him then standing up against Sengoku.

All of it makes sense if we recognize that the strongest commanders can push a Yonko to a mid diff fight (let alone a standard admiral), and that collectively they  are a force to be reckoned with.
On the other hand, there is not two ways around it. If the commanders are too weak, many events in the story are simply a complete joke. The whole thing falls apart.
Similarly the whole stalemate between their forces would not make any sense eihter without proximity between their forces (something that has been supported with King, Queen, Marco, Jack and Perospero's interactions)


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## Heart Over Blade (Dec 1, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> i know people in this thread like to pretend that zoro fans won't ever admit kidd is superior this arc, but that's not true


You're in the extreme minority. 9/10 won't. Some Zoro fans even struggle to admit Luffy is stronger.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Beast (Dec 1, 2021)

Mylesime said:


> No way.
> This thread will not have a conclusive answer because truth be told, Zoro and Kidd are very close to each other, one step behind Luffy.
> What Kidd and Law are currently doing, i'm convinced that an hypothetical tag team with Zoro and King could match to some extent that performance.
> If we assume that the Yonkos are that far apart form their strongest commanders, Marinford becomes a complete joke, Whitebeard went there (without knowing that Luffy, jinbei, Ivankov and co were joining) basically accomapnied with 3 commanders who are basically fodders?
> ...


Nah, it’s been very very clear. The only reason Zoro discussions go past the first page is simple minded fools, going out of their way deny and twist the truth. I’ve seen it with my very own eyes. 

Zoro and Kidd are very similar now but that’s with Zoro having 5x the feats/ panel time compared to Kidd this very arc but that’s not going to change who they are facing and what they can accomplish this very arc. 


It’s funny to me that people like you… who I would say try to act neutral are still biased as hell because wait for it… the SHs are the MCs as if that’s going to stop one character become stronger then another. 



I’m 100% certain Kidds been held back by Oda for a big reason and the only reason Kidd isn’t fully explored against BM is to save him for Shanks, that’s it. 


And no, King and Zoro being able to do the same is some trash talk. Fanfic of the highest order. A weaker BM was able to handle Marco better then she has Kidd, so not sure what the fuck 2 kings or Zoro and king are going to do. If Zoro was strong enough to by capable of fighting all the way against a yonko, he would have stayed on the roof top with Luffy or gone back up but he hasn’t. 


Feats aren’t being translated to king and Zoro for what? That’s just dishonest and King/ Zoro have no chance against BM. 


And yeah, not sure what your tiering has to do with anything… WB went do die at MF, if you haven’t actually understood that… I’m not sure what to tell you. WB bet on Ace… is that something you missed? 
WBP never stood a chance but that was never going to stop WB from attacking and trying to save Ace. Marco was never admiral/ yonko level, so no… he can’t be considered close to his captain, when we’ve seen for ourselves what each captain can do and it’s not close. 


Some Zoro/ King Wank about durability and fanfic is not and will not be enough for what Kaidou has done. Kaidou is far far far above everyone in his crew, half of the crew if not more would be past our to his presence and CoC alone, literally only the strongest/ high ranking officers could even stand on a battle field with/ against their captain.  For Kaidou that’s calamities and F6, for BM it’s her sweet commanders and oldest children, for WB his 16 commanders and though I will say it be high diff battle but the yonko will always come out on top 10/ 10.

Shanks crew is the only one that has gotten the right hype/ portrayal for us to think otherwise. And the SHs if you want to consider them a yonko crew. 


There’s a big difference between holding your own and being close in level. Big difference, FM and the likes of Queen and Jozu, I think can hold their own against most people… but nothing more then that.

King tanking one two attacks isn’t changing what we have previously seen for the last 1000 chapters… definitely not because some Zoro fans with big boughs want to gossip king even licking the boots of Kaidous strength after being mandhandled by Marco.


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## Mylesime (Dec 1, 2021)

Beast said:


> And yeah, not sure what your tiering has to do with anything… WB went do die at MF, if you haven’t actually understood that… I’m not sure what to tell you. WB bet on Ace… is that something you missed?
> WBP never stood a chance but that was never going to stop WB from attacking and trying to save Ace. Marco was never admiral/ yonko level, so no… he can’t be considered close to his captain, when we’ve seen for ourselves what each captain can do and it’s not close.



I might be wrong.
But this is how i understood it.
If Vista, Joz, and Marco are low diff fight for the admirals, Garp and Sengoku?
Whitebeard might be the dumbest friend in all of  shonen history if he went to the Navy's headquarter hoping to free one of his sons. Collective suicide, that's the only name one could give to that rescue mission.
Similarly Sengoku was a fool to cause so much trouble and be so dramatic summoning the Warlords with basically 6 top tiers on their side:
Mihawk, Garp, Sengoku, the three admirals.
If the commanders are that weak. This shit simply doesn't make any sense.





Beast said:


> Zoro and Kidd are very similar now but that’s with Zoro having 5x the feats/ panel time compared to Kidd this very arc but that’s not going to change who they are facing and what they can accomplish this very arc.



That's the point.
Zoro previously fought alongside the two others against the Yonkos, before grasping the concept of CoC and while heavily injured.
What Zoro pulled off against Kaido is there to make a comparison with how he's performing against King.
Some wankers went overboard, but facts can't be denied, King is not a fodder compared to Kaido.
He simply is not otherwise Zoro would not be struggling like that.
The same thought process then also applies to King vs his opponents.
It has to be nuanced with PIS and CIS obviously but you get what i mean, otherwise no feats could stand since the same accusation could be used all the time (aka everyone would be jobbing all the time)




Beast said:


> Shanks crew is the only one that has gotten the right hype/ portrayal for us to think otherwise. And the SHs if you want to consider them a yonko crew.


And why is Shanks  bothering negotiating with WB or Kaido if his subordinates are that much stronger than the other Yonkos'?
With such an advantage when it comes to their officers he should have destroyed them one by one, specially when WB died, before Teach could establish himself as a legit threat, when there were 3 of them. Why did he not move against Linlin or Kaido shortly after the "payback war"?
Common sense, portrayal, and hype , lead us to believe that had he moved the last Yonko would have fucked him up.
Or the other option is that, Shanks is the second dumbest friend in OP, just behind Newgate.






Beast said:


> A weaker BM was able to handle Marco better then she has Kidd



I give more importance to portrayal and hype, compared to feats for those kind of reasons.
AKA Chopper has better feats than Who'sWHo
Big Picture, Big Mom did jack shit to Marco, that isolated move amounted to nothing the minute Perospero was out of the equation.
She literally stated herself that she could not deal quickly with him.
That's akin to what happened with Marco and the two calamities.
Shows that Big Mom is the superior character, that's it.



Or there is another explanation once again.
Big Mom is the 3rd dumbest friend in OP since rather than ending Marco's life, she decided to leave him roaming free behind her for no reason,which is ultimately one the reasons why Big Mom and Kaido will lose this battle.


Once again, i might be wrong, we're all biased more or less, trying to keep it under control as much as possible when debating,  i'm trying to call it how i see it, trying to make some sense
The gaps between those characters are not as Big as most claim imo.... otherwise it doesn't make any sense.
Let's agree to disagree, our stance are clear.
Different readers, different takes.
Not that big of a deal.

Reactions: Friendly 1


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## Beast (Dec 1, 2021)

Mylesime said:


> I might be wrong.
> But this is how i understood it.
> If Vista, Joz, and Marco are low diff fight for the admirals, Garp and Sengoku?
> Whitebeard might be the dumbest friend in all of  shonen history if he went to the Navy's headquarter hoping to free one of his sons. Collective suicide, that's the only name one could give to that rescue mission.
> ...


Oda has been clear in his work where plot means more then actual power levels and I think the easiest way o could explain is with the chaos of war as well as it being pre Ts but Oda did manage to handle it very well imo. Top tiers were restricted from going all out and most of the time it was a single clash panels or distractions to move the story around. MF wasn’t as big deal as people make it out to be. It was only like 30/40 chapters I think. Marco/ Jozu/ Vista holding their own on single panels here and there does make sense, I think could be replicated a little by other commanders (Marco is built for support), the bigger problems were Daz intercepting Mihawk, Crocodile throughout the whole war… now, take those other outliers into consideration and Marco stopping attacks from admirals is not a big deal and he did exactly that against BM, so it wasn’t a random outlier either. I think there’s enough outliers making discussions on this forum pointless but I think there’s a big difference between outliers and set power levels. Plot is what drives the story but, you can do vs battle thread and WBP never stood a chance, Oda still paid his respects the WSM (who at first couldn’t do anything against Admiral 1v1 but once enraged was able to beat the strongest admiral), WBPs did get stomped and what made that battle any longer then it was Luffy and the escapees. Luffys power to turn multiple warlords onto his side etc. WBPs were simply crushed if you take things into perspective. Ace wouldn’t have left the podium if not for what I consider Oda induced stupidity.  OIS, a combination of PIS/ CIS. Lol. 



He doesn’t need to be fodder but he doesn’t need to be close to Kaidous level either, there is a big gap to fill in. He doesn’t need to be close to Kaidous level, neither has he shown it. It’s all good man, people always make a lot of claims and ideas/ theories always move around but once the arc finishes… everything will be clear as day. Then people can make comparisons/ discussions/ debates seriously. Zoro didn’t do much against Kaidou lol, he did more then everyone not named Luffy but they are also the only two who gassed out and needed assistance since while the likes of Kidd hasn’t stopped not even for a moment and people think he has done the least, so you can put two and two together. Zoro went all out in a desperate attempt, so not sure how that translates to him being at that level at all times… Zoro pushed past his limits to achieve what he had done on the roof, not sure how that translates to Kaidou who has shown to be miles and miles ahead of Zoro, actually never mind Zoro but Luffy, far ahead of Luffy when everyone was the roof. So, not sure how Zoros ultimate attack against Kaidou is remotely similar to him trying to converse emery against King. Advanced COC Ashura is greatest power Zoro has shown us and that was only one single instant with his captain laid out on the floor and only injured Law beside him and broken bones… do or die type of attack and it didn’t do much but you want to act as if every single attack Zoro threw at king after all that is on the same calibre… I’m not buying it.  


Lol, that’s stupid… Shanks is Kaidou or BM and no memes are going to randomly make him hunt down yonko crews… there is a balance, it’s been made an absolute fact, one entity can’t do anything without another making move for or against them. Shanks having the strongest overall crew wouldn’t rindomly make him come out of his way to destroy other crews… that’s just some random fanfic of red haired the racist from two piece. Shanks has always been the gate keeper type and not the aggressor type. So, that was just a random point you throughout there. Shanks and his crew are/ were stronger then BBPs why didn’t he go crush them alongside Marco? It’s called story bruh. Every character has their own personality and plans, that was just silly so ima just move past it. As for the second part of that shanks business… o ended up saying the same thing lol. 
But long story short imo, Feats/ portrayal/ Hype and background (aka family/ race) are all important but in different ways. Someone who has been fully explored is very different from someone Oda is going out of his way not to show case YET, and I think that’s the case with Zoro who is a SH and fully flushed out to Kidd, who we still don’t know anything about really. 










It’s cool man, I don’t mind anyone disagreeing if we can at least have a discussion, only those who starts playing the denial game or not accepting truths or Known Z boys is the only thing that makes me flame people. I can do with discussions here and there, just to see what others think truthfully.

Reactions: Friendly 1


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## Typhon (Dec 1, 2021)

Both Kidd and Law are individually > Zoro

Reactions: Winner 2 | Optimistic 5


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## TheWiggian (Dec 1, 2021)

Both Enma and Zoro are individually stronger than Kid and Law.

Reactions: Funny 12 | Optimistic 4


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## Firo (Dec 1, 2021)

Typhon said:


> Both Kidd and Law are individually > Zoro


At this point, who knows. We’ll be arguing this shit even after this arc ends tho..bookerskully


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## Beast (Dec 1, 2021)

Kidd kills Kaidou after beating BM and it’s over. I ain’t even discussing shit with anyone.


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## TheWiggian (Dec 1, 2021)

Enma is killing all 3 Yonko on Wano after sealing King's ryuo in it's storage pot.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Beast (Dec 1, 2021)

TheWiggian said:


> Enma is killing all 3 Yonko on Wano after sealing King's ryuo in it's storage pot.


Imagine King makes Enma black after grabbing it once


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## TheWiggian (Dec 1, 2021)

Beast said:


> Imagine King makes Enma black after grabbing it once



Yep. Something Oden couldn't do. Would love that.

Reactions: Funny 1 | Winner 1


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## Strobacaxi (Dec 1, 2021)

Mylesime said:


> YC1s were never casually One shottable by Yonkos that is the whole point.
> 
> We had alreadyseen Marco in numerous occasions against top tiers, and we all witnessed:
> 1)How much Bullshit went on during Katakuri VS Luffy.
> ...


I agree with you but you have to remember Marco has the stall fruit, it's literally impossible to 1shot him.

And Queen's performance against brainless, hakiless BM just increased the idea that Kaido could indeed one shot a YC1.

And that page isn't important for the discussion, Luffy was nowhere near YC1 at that point


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## Mylesime (Dec 1, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> I agree with you but you have to remember Marco has the stall fruit, it's literally impossible to 1shot him.


Been there done that.
His powers, scaled to his base stats.
When folks do the same thing with Zoro and his weapons how do you react?
Exactly. Marco is a beast, period.



Strobacaxi said:


> And Queen's performance against brainless, hakiless BM just increased the idea that Kaido could indeed one shot a YC1.


With the latter development and seeing how many times Queen was thrown around, i think it's safe to say that Queen wasn't anywhere near his maximum output, and O Lin didn't cause much damages.



Strobacaxi said:


> And that page isn't important for the discussion, Luffy was nowhere near YC1 at that point


He was clearly weaker before mastering Advanced CoA, on that we agree.


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## Strobacaxi (Dec 1, 2021)

Mylesime said:


> Been there done that.
> His powers, scaled to his base stats.
> When folks do the same thing with Zoro and his weapons how do you react?
> Exactly. Marco is a beast, period.


wut? Marco can't be one shotted, but he can be low diffed which is what BM did to him



Mylesime said:


> With the latter development and seeing how many times Queen was thrown around, i think it's safe to say that Queen wasn't anywhere near his maximum output, and O Lin didn't cause much damages.


She KO'd him?



Mylesime said:


> He was clearly weaker before mastering Advanced CoA, on that we agree.


I assume you meant CoO


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## A Optimistic (Dec 18, 2021)



Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Funny 1 | Winner 1


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Dec 19, 2021)

This is a wash. 

Kidd gets washed by Zoro

Reactions: Like 2


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## neonlight (Dec 19, 2021)

It's ridiculous that Oda has not highlighted Kidd much except for his awakening and ability to tank, but has shown him to be a haki noob. Zoro got flame rending ability, AdCoC and potentially black blade.

Reactions: Like 3


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## Tenma (Dec 19, 2021)

dem twists


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Dec 31, 2021)

Beast fighting for his life.

Zoro washes kidd

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1 | Winner 1


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## T.D.A (Dec 31, 2021)

Both Zoro and Law have looked more impressive than Kid imo.

Reactions: Agree 7


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## Beast (Jan 1, 2022)

T.D.A said:


> Both Zoro and Law have looked more impressive than Kid imo.


You think Killer did more on the roof top and Kidd did zero damage... 

laws been great assistant but it’s been clear as day Kidd has been carrying the fight but yeah… ‘more impressive’.
Getting dunked on by a lone homie isn’t ‘impressive’ bud.


Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Beast fighting for his life.
> 
> Zoro washes kidd


Now that kamina is gone… you know I’ma make sure all your Z friends shit post on your wall everyday once I win this bet thread right?


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Jan 1, 2022)

Beast said:


> You think Killer did more on the roof top and Kidd did zero damage… your opinions go as far as your lips on Zoros dick.
> 
> laws been great assistant but it’s been clear as day Kidd has been carrying the fight but yeah… ‘more impressive’.
> Getting dunked on by a lone homie isn’t ‘impressive’ bud.
> ...


 .m

 I will wear a Kid avatar of your choice for a year


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## Beast (Jan 1, 2022)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> .m
> 
> I will wear a Kid avatar of your choice for a year


That will be the least of your worries.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## ClannadFan (Jan 2, 2022)

Still got my money on Kidd. Zoro only passed him after getting AdvCoC. Kidd doesn't need another power up, just some more impressive awakening stuff.


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## Ruse (Jan 4, 2022)

Beast fighting for his life in here hate to see it….

Kid > Zoro still

Reactions: Funny 3


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## ShadoLord (Jan 4, 2022)

Zoro four shot Kid.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Ruse (Jan 4, 2022)

@Gledonux whats so funny?


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## Gledania (Jan 4, 2022)

Ruse said:


> @Gledonux whats so funny?


Nothing , you're right about Beast  

Imagine facing all the Zoro AND Law AND big mom fans by yourself to put Kidd as luffy's only true rival.

The entire OL is facing him

Reactions: Funny 3 | Winner 1


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## Ruse (Jan 4, 2022)

Gledonux said:


> Nothing , you're right about Beast
> 
> Imagine facing all the Zoro AND Law AND big mom fans by yourself to put Kidd as luffy's only true rival.
> 
> The entire OL is facing him


Only checked in this thread again recently, I’m laughing man they’re on his head.


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## T.D.A (Jan 4, 2022)

ClannadFan said:


> *Kidd doesn't need another power up*

Reactions: Funny 3


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## A Optimistic (Jan 4, 2022)

I still firmly believe that Kidd will get advanced CoC before this arc ends. Kaido's comment about Kidd's CoC was foreshadowing.


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## T.D.A (Jan 4, 2022)

A Optimistic said:


> I still firmly believe that Kidd will get advanced CoC before this arc ends. Kaido's comment about Kidd's CoC was foreshadowing.



Kid gotta show us basic haki first

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 2


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## A Optimistic (Jan 4, 2022)

T.D.A said:


> Kid gotta show us basic haki first



Oda is pretty inconsistent when it comes to hardening so I can forgive him for not showing that but I would be very disappointed in him as a writer if Kidd left Wano without showing a Yonko his CoC.

This scene would be completely pointless if Kidd doesn't use his CoC against Big Mom.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Great Potato (Jan 4, 2022)

Zoro base celebrate eking a victory against a meager YC1

But the New Year is paving the way for the actual main event matches against the Yonko, and nobody gonna still be talking about King when it's all said and done.

Reactions: Like 3


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## T.D.A (Jan 4, 2022)

Great Potato said:


> Zoro base celebrate eking a victory against a meager YC1
> 
> But the New Year is paving the way for the actual main event matches against the Yonko, and nobody gonna still be talking about King when it's all said and done.



In b4 Kid fails to defeat Big Mom

Reactions: Funny 1


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## A Optimistic (Jan 4, 2022)

Kidd will definitely win against Big Mom. The problem is that Kidd is sharing that victory with Law so that victory alone won't be enough to claim that Kidd is stronger than Zoro.

In my opinion, the best way for Kidd to prove he's stronger than Zoro is for Kidd to show a better feat than this. This is an insane advanced CoC feat from Zoro and Kidd has a lot to prove if he wants to surpass that.





It's going to come down to who has the better feats, not who defeated the stronger opponent. Defeating the stronger opponent is only a relevant argument when it's a 1v1 fight.

Reactions: Winner 1 | Neutral 1


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## T.D.A (Jan 4, 2022)

Oda wants to make us think both Yonko are going down but I expect the outcome will be Kaido goes down, Big Mom leaves Wano.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


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## A Optimistic (Jan 4, 2022)

T.D.A said:


> Oda wants to make us think both Yonko are going down but I expect the outcome will be Kaido goes down, Big Mom leaves Wano.



the two rules of OP are

1) always bet on zoro

2) never bet on big mom

you're good at following rule 1 but rule 2 could use some work brother

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Great Potato (Jan 4, 2022)

T.D.A said:


> In b4 Kid fails to defeat Big Mom



There's a better chance of NASA discovering the moon is made out of cheese

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 3


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## MO (Jan 4, 2022)

T.D.A said:


> In b4 Kid fails to defeat Big Mom


he will. forget the naysayers. Kidd is not getting a win in his lifetime.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## A Optimistic (Jan 4, 2022)

Great Potato said:


> There's a better chance of NASA discovering the moon is made out of cheese





MO said:


> he will. forget the naysayers. Kidd is not getting a win in his lifetime.



the duality of man

Reactions: Funny 2


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## T.D.A (Jan 4, 2022)

A Optimistic said:


> the two rules of OP are
> 
> 1) always bet on zoro
> 
> ...



I chose 3) Never bet on Eustass Kidd

Reactions: Funny 5


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## Vagueness (Jan 4, 2022)

Beating big mom even with law is still more impressive than beating king.

If zoro and law were fighting and beating a yonkou while kidd was left dealing with a YC1 none of you zoro fanboys would be saying "that doesn't prove anything! We still don't know if zoro is stronger!!". Let's be real. Zoro would be hailed as one of the big boys while kidd would be belittled as a level below.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## T.D.A (Jan 4, 2022)

Vagueness said:


> Beating big mom even with law is still more impressive than beating king.
> 
> If zoro and law were fighting and beating a yonkou while kidd was left dealing with a YC1 none of you zoro fanboys would be saying "that doesn't prove anything! We still don't know if zoro is stronger!!". Let's be real. Zoro would be hailed as one of the big boys while kidd would be belittled as a level below.



Zoro didn't just beat King did he, he also did more vs Kaido who's a Yonko last time I checked. If you were that confident about Kid being above then you wouldn't have omitted the feats vs Kaido...

Reactions: Like 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## A Optimistic (Jan 4, 2022)

Vagueness said:


> If zoro and law were fighting and beating a yonkou while kidd was left dealing with a YC1 none of you zoro fanboys would be saying "that doesn't prove anything! We still don't know if zoro is stronger!!".



Why wouldn't we say that? Comparing a 2v1 to a 1v1 and only looking at how strong the opponent is doesn't make sense lol. You got to look at their individual feats.


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## Vagueness (Jan 4, 2022)

A Optimistic said:


> Why wouldn't we say that? Comparing a 2v1 to a 1v1 and only looking at how strong the opponent is doesn't make sense lol. You got to look at their individual feats.


Yes looking at how strong the opponent is absolutely makes sense when judging the context of a 2v1 vs a 1v1. Beating Big mom is such a better accomplishment than barely beating a YC1 that it offsets the fact it was a 2v1 with law. I know this place has tried to hype up YC1s endlessly since zoro was demoted from the rooftop and forced to deal with one but i still believe a yonkou is a much much more superior opponent.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## T.D.A (Jan 4, 2022)

Vagueness said:


> Yes looking at how strong the opponent is absolutely makes sense when judging the context of a 2v1 vs a 1v1. Beating Big mom is such a better accomplish than barely beating a YC1 that it offsets the fact it was a 2v1 with law. I know this place has tried to hype up YC1s endlessly since zoro was demoted from the rooftop and forced to deal with one but i still believe a yonkou is a much much more superior opponent.



Kidd hasn't beaten Big Mom though, that's an if...and Kaido's a Yonkou too. If you're going to make comparisons then you have to take all the feats *and* powers from the Raid so far in totality. Excluding rooftop feats and then only looking at match ups rather than powers/skills is pretty naive.


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## Vagueness (Jan 4, 2022)

Obviously this is on the premise of if he beats big mom. If he doesn't well then that's another story. Although i believe he will.



T.D.A said:


> Kidd hasn't beaten Big Mom though, that's an if...and Kaido's a Yonkou too. If you're going to make comparisons then you have to take all the feats *and* powers from the Raid so far in totality. Excluding rooftop feats and then only looking at match ups rather than powers/skills is pretty naive.


Also actually beating big mom>>>>>>>>everything zoro did on the roof.


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## A Optimistic (Jan 4, 2022)

Vagueness said:


> Yes looking at how strong the opponent is absolutely makes sense when judging the context of a 2v1 vs a 1v1. Beating Big mom is such a better accomplish than barely beating a YC1 that it offsets the fact it was a 2v1 with law. I know this place has tried to hype up YC1s endlessly since zoro was demoted from the rooftop and forced to deal with one but i still believe a yonkou is a much much more superior opponent.



You sound pretty biased. Zoro showed that he's on a different level from King once he unlocked advanced CoC. At the moment, Kidd doesn't have a single feat that you can post that's more impressive than this:




Now could Kidd end up showing a feat better than this before his fight with Big Mom ends? It's definitely possible. And if Kidd does end up showing a better feat before the arc ends, then I don't have an issue putting him above Zoro and saying Beast won the bet.

But simply stating that "Big Mom > King, therefore Kidd and Law defeating her automatically puts them above Zoro and I won't hear otherwise lalalala" doesn't make any sense unfortunately. The only way that argument could make sense is if you could somehow prove that Zoro and Law would be unable to defeat Big Mom in a 2v1 fight, but we both know you can't do that.


Anyways the tl-dr is this: Kidd only goes above Zoro when he shows us a feat better than Zoro's best Wano arc feat. Simple as that.

Reactions: Winner 1 | Optimistic 1


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## T.D.A (Jan 4, 2022)

Vagueness said:


> Also actually beating big mom>>>>>>>>everything zoro did on the roof.



Where did Kid beat Big Mom? It seems like you're just arguing based on what you think will happen rather than what has happened or is happening....

Is Brook weaker than Nami?


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## Vagueness (Jan 4, 2022)

First of all zoro is inargueably NOT on "a different level" from king so let's squash that right now.

And it's not "Big Mom > King, therefore Kidd and Law defeating her automatically puts them above"

It's "Big Mom *>>>* King, therefore Kidd and Law defeating her automatically puts them above "

That's the difference.

Reactions: Winner 2


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## Vagueness (Jan 4, 2022)

T.D.A said:


> Where did Kid beat Big Mom? It seems like you're just arguing based on what you think will happen rather than what has happened or is happening....
> 
> Is Brook weaker than Nami?


He hasn't. I'm talking in the event that he does because @A Optimistic is claiming that even if he does that doesn't mean anything and i am simply saying otherwise.


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## T.D.A (Jan 4, 2022)

Vagueness said:


> He hasn't. I'm talking in the event that he does because @A Optimistic is claiming that even if he does that doesn't mean anything and i am simply saying otherwise.



If Big Mom goes down it still depends on how she goes down. For example  if all Kid does is set up an attack for Law to do a finisher without showing anything new then why should he be put above Zoro?


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## Vagueness (Jan 5, 2022)

T.D.A said:


> If Big Mom goes down it still depends on how she goes down. For example  if all Kid does is set up an attack for Law to do a finisher without showing anything new then why should he be put above Zoro?


Obviously the context of the fight is important. If he does almost nothing to contribute than yeah that logically changes things. I am working off of the premise that kidd and law would both contribute equally in her hypothetical defeat. If he doesn't or big mom beats them anyway than you can claim what you want about zoro being stronger. I'm simply working off of the original hypothetical of kidd and law beating big mom being a much much better accomplishment


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## A Optimistic (Jan 5, 2022)

Vagueness said:


> First of all zoro is inargueably NOT on "a different level" from king so let's squash that right now.



This is what I mean when I say you're biased. King got defeated in 1 chapter of fighting after Zoro unlocked advanced CoC.

Zoro with advanced CoC is on a different level from King. It's not really up for debate.



Vagueness said:


> He hasn't. I'm talking in the event that he does because @A Optimistic is claiming that even if he does that doesn't mean anything and i am simply saying otherwise.



Yes it doesn't mean anything on it's own, the _how _they defeated Big Mom part is quite important, and it's strange you want to ignore that part. You would only be able to ignore the _how _if Kidd and Big Mom were having a 1v1 fight. Unfortunately for you, Law exists.

For example, if Kidd starts unleashing attacks to do a large amount of damage of Big Mom and those attacks look stronger then Zoro's attack then sure Kidd is above Zoro.

Also I like how you ignored the part where I said "The only way that argument could make sense is if you could somehow prove that Zoro and Law would be unable to defeat Big Mom in a 2v1 fight, but we both know you can't do that."

Why did you ignore that part?


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## Amol (Jan 5, 2022)

*IF * Kid and Law actually beat Big Mom then obviously by feats, portrayal and hype Kid would be better than Zoro. By very good margin at that.

He will obviously give her far serious injuries than mere scar after all.

I genuinely do not know how someone will be able to claim to be a non biased poster and still claim Zoro being stronger than Kid (or Law) after they beat a Yonkou. To me that would be sign of troll who should be ignored.


This all is of course assuming that they infact do beat Big Mom. There is after all strong possibility that she will just leave Wano undefeated.

Reactions: Winner 5


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## A Optimistic (Jan 5, 2022)

Vagueness said:


> I am working off of the premise that kidd and law would both contribute equally in her hypothetical defeat.



They probably will contribute equally. Here's what you're ignoring though.

Do you remember when Law and Kidd landed their awakening attacks on Big Mom? Do you remember exactly _how_ they landed their attacks? Big Mom was distracted by Kidd when Law landed his awakening attack. Big Mom was distracted by Law when Kidd landed his awakening attack.

Neither Kidd nor Law have proven that they would be able to land their awakening attacks in a 1v1 fight against Big Mom. This is what I mean when I say you and several other posters are ignoring the context of a 2v1 fight and just blindly saying "Big Mom > King, therefore it's a more impressive feat".

I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but since Kidd/Law vs Big mom is a 2v1 fight, then unfortunately looking at the outcome isn't enough and feats have to be compared at the end of the day. If you still don't get my point after the awakening example I gave you above then I don't know what else to say.


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## Great Potato (Jan 5, 2022)

A Optimistic said:


> This is an insane advanced CoC feat from Zoro and Kidd has a lot to prove if he wants to surpass that.



Zoro knows Foxfire now, so I'm not that impressed by him cutting through King's fire dragon. An attack like this shouldn't be a threat for Zoro since he unlocked that ability.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## HaxHax (Jan 5, 2022)

A Optimistic said:


> You sound pretty biased. Zoro showed that he's on a different level from King once he unlocked advanced CoC. At the moment, Kidd doesn't have a single feat that you can post that's more impressive than this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


lol

could you imagine yourself even considering that kid was stronger than zoro if zoro+1 had defeated a yonko while kid extreme diff'd a commander?

Reactions: Agree 1


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## A Optimistic (Jan 5, 2022)

HaxHax said:


> lol
> 
> could you imagine yourself even considering that kid was stronger than zoro if zoro+1 had defeated a yonko while kid extreme diff'd a commander?



yeah if kidd was the one shooting giant energy advanced CoC beams that destroy YC1s, I would think he’s stronger at the moment 

why is that surprising

Reactions: Creative 1


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## Beast (Jan 5, 2022)

A Optimistic said:


> It's going to come down to who has the better feats, not who defeated the stronger opponent. Defeating the stronger opponent is only a relevant argument when it's a 1v1 fight.


hahahaha
It’s begun!

I thought you guys would have wait till at least BM vs Kidd started 

But you’ve always been ahead of pack… you special I can tell.

Beating BM >>>> anything everything Zoro has done so far.

I will say you guys have a lot to pray for…

may law help Kidd to the end 

may BM run away 

Kidd doesn’t showcase no advanced haki 

may Kidd/ Law die to showcase Luffy/ SHs are extra special even amongst peers. 

Go to your local church/ mosque or any other place of worship and GET ON YOUR KNEES!

Reactions: Funny 6


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## Beast (Jan 5, 2022)

TDA only argues about things that haven’t happened… so he can tell you they haven’t happened.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Captain Quincy (Jan 5, 2022)

Only a few weeks at most left now.

Looks like it's gonna come down to Kidd's contributions to the BM fight. 

If he shows AdvCoC then there's a very good chance for Kidd here. If he doesn't then there's still a chance, but he'll need some real flashy feats to make up for it. Peerless girders was a step in the right direction for him, so we'll see if he can improve on that.

Offscreenpiece is probably @Beast biggest nightmare right now

Reactions: Funny 4 | Optimistic 1


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## Firo (Jan 5, 2022)

Considering All Zoro did was scar Kaido, if Law or Kid are able to actually hurt Mom in a way that Zoro didn’t against Kaido then it’s basically over. Hell, Kaido has been up and running even after that scar so you know….

Reactions: Like 2 | Winner 1


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## Gledania (Jan 5, 2022)

Firo said:


> Considering All Zoro did was scar Kaido, if Law or Kid are able to actually hurt Mom in a way that Zoro didn’t against Kaido then it’s basically over. Hell, Kaido has been up and running even after that scar so you know….


In his defense,  zoro was exhausted before ashura   And ashura take your energy.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Beast (Jan 5, 2022)

Captain Quincy said:


> Only a few weeks at most left now.
> 
> Looks like it's gonna come down to Kidd's contributions to the BM fight.
> 
> ...


You’re bringing back old fears man

Reactions: Funny 3


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## Firo (Jan 5, 2022)

Gledonux said:


> In his defense,  zoro was exhausted before ashura   And ashura take your energy.


I don’t think it really matters at this point. Law took TB to the chin and didn’t lose consciousness and went after Mom after a short interval and both him and Kid hurt her afterwards. 
His last attack was basically all he had. While they aren’t in as bad shape as Zoro was in, they’re potentially going to do something that’ll shake the world and end an era. Taking out a commander is inferior to that even if it’s 2 v 1.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Optimistic 1


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## Gledania (Jan 5, 2022)

Firo said:


> I don’t think it really matters at this point. Law took TB to the chin and didn’t lose consciousness and went after Mom after a short interval and both him and Kid hurt her afterwards.
> His last attack was basically all he had. While they aren’t in as bad shape as Zoro was in, they’re potentially going to do something that’ll shake the world and end an era. Taking out a commander is inferior to that even if it’s 2 v 1.


Kidd and law will get help  rest assured.


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## Firo (Jan 5, 2022)

Gledonux said:


> Kidd and law will get help  rest assured.


If they do that kinda changes things no doubt.


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## Great Potato (Jan 5, 2022)

A Optimistic said:


> yeah if kidd was the one shooting giant energy advanced CoC beams that destroy YC1s, I would think he’s stronger at the moment
> 
> why is that surprising



I keep hearing that Zoro was firing energy beams or shooting Kamehamehas, but I'm pretty sure Dragon Damnation is a close quarters attack considering that Zoro very clearly ends up behind King when it lands the exact same way he is every other time he blitzes past an enemy with one of his close range finishers.


*Spoiler*: __ 










The simple solution is that the CoC in that panel was trailing behind his sword like always to illustrate his path diving through the attack.

The alternative reading is that Zoro not only invented CoC beams, but then somehow outran his own Kamehameha to end up behind King before it landed, for no apparent reason.

Reactions: Like 4 | Agree 3 | Informative 1


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## Chip Skylark (Jan 5, 2022)

Great Potato said:


> I keep hearing that Zoro was firing energy beams or shooting Kamehamehas, but I'm pretty sure Dragon Damnation is a close quarters attack considering that Zoro very clearly ends up behind King when it lands the exact same way he is every other time he blitzes past an enemy with one of his close range finishers.
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...


It’s a weirdly illustrated panel, but I’d agree with this.

Still wondering how Zoro projected himself tho. No way a simple free fall was that fast.

Reactions: Like 1


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## stealthblack (Jan 5, 2022)

Eustass was eating attacks from yonkou Linlin Like it was nothing

Zoro was getting owned by king YC1 attacks

Eustass did the most damage to Linlin in decades, and She fought the other yonkou, kaidou just now.


Enma is carrying Zoro around these days anyway, it's eustass vs enma basically

Reactions: Like 1


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## Delta Shell (Jan 5, 2022)

Can Zoro take on Mike the Girder tho

Reactions: Funny 4


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## Great Potato (Jan 5, 2022)

While it's true that Kid and Law vs Big Mom is largely coming down to a 2v1, there were many advantages in Big Mom's favor to help balance that out.

1. Kid and Law came into the fight far more gassed and injured than BM did. They had both been giving it their all on the Rooftop for the 10 chapters prior with Law being on the receiving end of Thunder Bagua and another club swing, Kid eating Fulgora and a haymaker, and them both enduring attacks from Prometheus and Zeus. BM was also on the Rooftop but was fresh in comparison as she had done relatively little to exert herself and only took a single counter-shock for mild damage that entire fight.

2. It technically wasn't even a true 2v1 because Hawkins was very much involved in this fight and playing fully in Big Mom's favor sabotaging Kid for chapters on end. Not only did he get impaled by Killer (a wound which had done serious damage to Zoro earlier in the arc) but the constant invisible attacks opened him up and left him defenseless for Big Mom to take advantage and slam him with even more heavy hits, and this also caused Law to take hits because Kid had become a liability fighting that crippling handicap.

By the time Hawkins was eliminated and they were in a position to start fighting back and dish out actual damage they had already been reduced to very poor states while Big Mom was relatively fresh until Awakening was on the table. Also very important to mention that as things are currently shaping up... Big Mom risks falling entirely to Kid and Law's efforts, nobody else has dealt actual damage to her outside of them. Whereas Kaido has been getting worn down and taken damage from a gauntlet of well over a dozen fighters at this stage which includes Yamato, Kid, Law, and Zoro among the many others... to act like Kaido's falling to the Luffy solo show is writing off Zoro's own contributions to that fight.

Reactions: Winner 7


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## Shrike (Jan 5, 2022)

Great Potato said:


> I keep hearing that Zoro was firing energy beams or shooting Kamehamehas, but I'm pretty sure Dragon Damnation is a close quarters attack considering that Zoro very clearly ends up behind King when it lands the exact same way he is every other time he blitzes past an enemy with one of his close range finishers.
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...


Ye been saying this ever since we got the spoilers 2 chapters ago. Zoro is leaving a trail of haki since he's moving very fast, he isn't firing anything.


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## A Optimistic (Jan 5, 2022)

Beast said:


> hahahaha
> It’s begun!
> 
> I thought you guys would have wait till at least BM vs Kidd started
> ...



Why would I pray for Big Mom to run away?

 



Great Potato said:


> I keep hearing that Zoro was firing energy beams or shooting Kamehamehas, but I'm pretty sure Dragon Damnation is a close quarters attack considering that Zoro very clearly ends up behind King when it lands the exact same way he is every other time he blitzes past an enemy with one of his close range finishers.
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...



You’re right.

Reactions: Friendly 1


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## bil02 (Jan 5, 2022)

Great Potato said:


> Zoro knows Foxfire now, so I'm not that impressed by him cutting through King's fire dragon. An attack like this shouldn't be a threat for Zoro since he unlocked that ability.


But he is clearly not using that in that panel though..is he?
Everytime he did,we were shown the name of the technique just before.



Firo said:


> Considering All Zoro did was scar Kaido, if Law or Kid are able to actually hurt Mom in a way that Zoro didn’t against Kaido then it’s basically over. Hell, Kaido has been up and running even after that scar so you know….


I think the question we should ask ourselves if if current Big Mom is stronger than 2 Current Zoros.
If she is and Kid and Law beat her head on,then kid should be stronger as both Supernova have been contributing equally against Big Mom.

I personally think Kid can end up stronger as he is a conqueror+ a Luffy rival and has a matchup advantage on Zoro but no way someone like Law is stronger than Roronoa.


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## bil02 (Jan 5, 2022)

stealthblack said:


> Eustass was eating attacks from yonkou Linlin Like it was nothing


Same attacks that Ulti took and got up from?
Bm's attacks have been tanked left and right in this raid,even on the rooftop,her attacks did nothing.


stealthblack said:


> Zoro was getting owned by king YC1 attacks


Lol so King's attacks>Indra then since all Sn tanked them no diff on the roof.


stealthblack said:


> Eustass did the most damage to Linlin in decades, and She fought the other yonkou, kaidou just now.


The combined damage from Law's and Kid's attack did,she followed that sentence by praising both of them.

You are doing the same thing as people who kept saying Zoro forced Kaido into hybrid with Tatsumaki,we both know he didn't.


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## truedetectiveseason2intro (Jan 5, 2022)

If Kidd and law win decisively and they both contribute equally they’re both above zoro. If one does most of the work that person is head and shoulders above zoro.

Reactions: Like 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Captain Quincy (Jan 5, 2022)

bil02 said:


> I think the question we should ask ourselves if if current Big Mom is stronger than 2 Current Zoros.
> If she is and Kid and Law beat her head on,then kid should be stronger as both Supernova have been equally against Big Mom.


This is assuming they'll contribute about equally for the rest of the BM fight

Reactions: Neutral 1


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## Dragon D. Luffy (Jan 6, 2022)

I love how this thread assumes that we will know the answer for sure when the arc ends.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 3 | Winner 1 | Optimistic 1


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## Magentabeard (Jan 6, 2022)

2 Zoros would beat Big Mom 
No one's opinion ever changes anyways

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 5 | Winner 1 | Optimistic 3


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## Gledania (Jan 8, 2022)

let say Zoro = Law and make peace for good.

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 1


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## Strobacaxi (Jan 8, 2022)

Gledonux said:


> let say Zoro = Law and make peace for good.


Why would we say something so wrong?

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 2


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## Gledania (Jan 8, 2022)

Strobacaxi said:


> Why would we say something so wrong?


oK Zoro > Law.

My bad

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## TheWiggian (Jan 8, 2022)

Kid should've learned how to forge a haki arm before taking on Shanks baboon that cut his arm off.

 

Ps that baboon is the single survivor of Kuraigana island after the war, before Mihawk started to breed his ilk there.

Reactions: Funny 5 | Creative 1


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## Beast (Jan 9, 2022)

Gledonux said:


> let say Zoro = Law and make peace for good.


 


Strobacaxi said:


> Why would we say something so wrong?


 


Gledonux said:


> oK Zoro > Law.
> 
> My bad


 
Fucking weak Gled… ducking weak.

Reactions: Funny 3


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## Gledania (Jan 9, 2022)

Beast said:


> Fucking weak Gled… ducking weak.


Was just trolling him tbh.

I put Law Kidd and Zoro at YC1.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Firo (Jan 9, 2022)

Gledonux said:


> oK Zoro > Law.
> 
> My bad


Law would pack him up.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 2


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## Beast (Jan 9, 2022)

Gledonux said:


> Was just trolling him tbh.
> 
> I put Law *Kidd* and Zoro at *YC1*.


You think this helps

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Germa 66 (Jan 9, 2022)

Let Mid be stronger than Jimbei first.

Reactions: Funny 4 | Informative 1 | Optimistic 1


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## Kanki (Jan 9, 2022)

I really want it to be Zoro but it is hard to argue against Zoro going extreme diff + then collapsing against a yonkou FM, while Kidd is fighting 2 vs 1 against Big Mom, who parallels Kaido that one shot WCI Luffy.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Incognitos (Feb 3, 2022)

Germa 66 said:


> Let Mid be stronger than Jimbei first.


Hes definitely stronger than Jinbe. He has a much stronger showing against BM even when Jinbe was in the middle of the ocean. 

Also bumping thread.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Dislike 1


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## HaxHax (Feb 7, 2022)

Alright how's it looking

Reactions: Funny 2


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## MartyMcFly1 (Feb 7, 2022)

I still think Zoro is stronger.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 2 | Funny 1 | Winner 3


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## Incognitos (Feb 7, 2022)

Kid Bros won this bet. Zoro Bros need to go into exile until zoro's next big feat. The legion has lost this battle.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 2 | Optimistic 2


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## MartyMcFly1 (Feb 7, 2022)

Incognitos said:


> Kid Bros won this bet. Zoro Bros need to go into exile until zoro's next big feat. The legion has lost this battle.


So I still think Zoro is stronger but check this out: 



I’ve been saying Kidd would defeat Big Mom from the jump.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Gledania (Feb 7, 2022)

I think full HP zoro with Adv CoC would severly hurt kaido but to what extend remain speculations.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Admiral Akanezumi (Feb 7, 2022)

Wano is over, when it is over

Reactions: Like 1


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## Luffyfan38 (Feb 7, 2022)

Zoro sans are delusional, Zoro will get stronger than he was post Wano yes but Kid ( Kidd) Will get stronger as he's apart of the one's being compared to the likes of Luffy and fighting Big Ma while Zoro fights the likes of King ( Kaidou's henchmen) Plus Kid ( Kidd) Is a Captian while Zoro is the first mate of the crew. Do the math man.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 2


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## ClannadFan (Feb 7, 2022)

As of right now Kidd has won the bet.

There's obviously no way to truly find out who is stronger, but for the purposes of this bet, Kidd won due to the popular opinion being that he is stronger than Zoro.

This of course still has time to change since Wano is not over, but as of 1039 Kidd is winning this bet.

Reactions: Like 1 | Optimistic 1


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## MartyMcFly1 (Feb 7, 2022)

Luffyfan38 said:


> Zoro sans are delusional, Zoro will get stronger than he was post Wano yes but Kid ( Kidd) Will get stronger as he's apart of the one's being compared to the likes of Luffy and fighting Big Ma while Zoro fights the likes of King ( Kaidou's henchmen) Plus Kid ( Kidd) Is a Captian while Zoro is the first mate of the crew. Do the math man.


With WHAT powerup though? Nobody seems to be willing to explain this.

Advanced CoC took Luffy from around Zoro’s level to being able to damage and fight against Kaido. This seems like the endgame powerup, and the largest increase in strength anyone can get.


ClannadFan said:


> As of right now Kidd has won the bet.
> 
> There's obviously no way to truly find out who is stronger, but for the purposes of this bet, Kidd won due to the popular opinion being that he is stronger than Zoro.
> 
> This of course still has time to change since Wano is not over, but as of 1039 Kidd is winning this bet.


No. Kidd is not winning the bet. I’ve been a Kidd fan since before it was cool. I called out this development YEARS ago, and I’ve got the receipts to back it up.

That being said, the one time we saw Zoro use advanced CoC on a Yonkou he permanently scarred him, while all of his bones were broken. WHY are we to believe a fresh Zoro would do worse against Big Mom than Kidd?

Reactions: Like 6 | Agree 1


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## Luffyfan38 (Feb 7, 2022)

MartyMcFly1 said:


> With WHAT powerup though? Nobody seems to be willing to explain this.
> 
> Advanced CoC took Luffy from around Zoro’s level to being able to damage and fight against Kaido. This seems like the endgame powerup, and the largest increase in strength anyone can get.


He's already got awakening, that's 10 x  stronger than Zoro now, all Zoro has is a piece of King Haki i guess? He's considered Luffy's official rival I assume he will get something more before Wano ends of in another arc later to complete with the likes of Luffy.

Reactions: Funny 1 | Optimistic 1


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## MartyMcFly1 (Feb 7, 2022)

Luffyfan38 said:


> He's already got awakening, that's 10 x  stronger than Zoro now, all Zoro has is a piece of King Haki i guess? He's considered Luffy's official rival I assume he will get something more before Wano ends of in another arc later to complete with the likes of Luffy.


Awakening is a weaker powerup than advanced CoC. Because of that powerup, Luffy is single-handedly doing what it took both Kidd and Law to do. As far as we know Roger, Shanks or Rayleigh don’t have devil fruits. Oden didn’t have a devil fruit. Haki is the great equalizer and advanced CoC is what makes the strongest people in the world.

Reactions: Agree 2 | Optimistic 2


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## Luffyfan38 (Feb 7, 2022)

MartyMcFly1 said:


> Awakening is a weaker powerup than advanced CoC. Because of that powerup, Luffy is single-handedly doing what it took both Kidd and Law to do. As far as we know Roger, Shanks or Rayleigh don’t have devil fruits. Oden didn’t have a devil fruit. Haki is the great equalizer and advanced CoC is what makes the strongest people in the world.


This is a thread about who stronger Zoro or kid ( Kidd) thread no Luffy involved. Yes Luffy has the ultimate King Haki so yes that makes him  stronger than Kid ( Kidd) Zoro doesn't have that though. Your opinion on awakening is your thing man, others may disagree me included. I mean Dolf said it was a rare thing to have.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## MartyMcFly1 (Feb 7, 2022)

Luffyfan38 said:


> This is a thread about who stronger Zoro or kid ( Kidd) thread no Luffy involved. Yes Luffy has the ultimate King Haki so yes that makes him  stronger than Kid ( Kidd) Zoro doesn't have that though. Your opinion on awakening is your thing man, others may disagree me included. I mean Dolf said it was a rare thing to have.


What do you mean? Zoro has conquerors haki and can use its advanced form. In fact, due to desperation he used it before Luffy did.

Awakening is rare, but you can be one of the strongest people in the entire world without it. That isn’t true about advanced CoC. To be one of the strongest, you _need_ it. And Zoro is strong enough with it that even Kaido was extremely shocked.

I am the ORIGINAL Kidd fan: 



MartyMcFly1 said:


> Kidd has always been portrayed as the strongest supernova and Luffy’s closest rival out of them all. He will make a major name for himself this arc, trust.
> 
> Dudes on this forum was so sprung on Hawkins and Drake LMFAOOOOO!!



This is from 2019 and look how crazy everyone used to talk about him. I’ve known this would happen all along, I haven’t searched, but I guarantee I have some pre-2014 posts saying the same things as well. Even then, I believe current Zoro is stronger.

Reactions: Winner 3


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## Luffyfan38 (Feb 7, 2022)

MartyMcFly1 said:


> What do you mean? Zoro has conquerors haki and can use its advanced form. In fact, due to desperation he used it before Luffy did.
> 
> Awakening is rare, but you can be one of the strongest people in the entire world without it. That isn’t true about advanced CoC. To be one of the strongest, you _need_ !it. And Zoro is strong enough with it that even Kaido was extremely shocked.


He may have had it first but look at
Luffy now compared to Zoro now. Its a big difference.I'm entering a territory I don't like entering, its an annoying discussion.

Kaidou being shocked doesn't mean jack, he's enjoying a food fight right now, awakening surprised Big Ma too and they are showing how frightening and powerful Kid ( Kidd) Is with it. If its rare that means a lot.


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## Brian (Feb 7, 2022)

As always us Zorochads won

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 1 | Funny 1


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Feb 8, 2022)

Incognitos said:


> Kid Bros won this bet. Zoro Bros need to go into exile until zoro's next big feat. The legion has lost this battle.



You do know he is fighting again this arc right?

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Incognitos (Feb 8, 2022)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> You do know he is fighting again this arc right?


Why don't you make a bet thread about that. We can do bans, one month for me if he has another major fight and one month for you if he doesn't.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Feb 8, 2022)

Incognitos said:


> Why don't you make a bet thread about that. We can do bans, one month for me if he has another major fight and one month for you if he doesn't.



Well im already apart of the kaidou bet. 

So i will give you that handicap. If Zoro doesnt fight kaidou then i lose. Doesnt matter if Big mom gets back up and zoro cuts her clean in half i lose

Reactions: Winner 1


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## xmysticgohanx (Feb 8, 2022)

I can't believe people actually think Kid wins this

Reactions: Agree 3 | Winner 2


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## convict (Feb 11, 2022)

Remember not to post spoilers outside telegrams before official release.

Reactions: Agree 2 | Funny 1


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## Yumi Zoro (Feb 11, 2022)

convict said:


> Remember not to post spoilers outside telegrams before official release.



Agree, but but I didnt post spoilers.

Just normal emoji, yet my wonderfull post was deleted.

Reactions: Friendly 1


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## Rob (Feb 11, 2022)

Damn, can't believe Kid and Zoro both died last chapter. gg's

Reactions: Funny 1 | Friendly 1


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## TheMoffinMan (Feb 11, 2022)

Rob said:


> Damn, can't believe Kid and Zoro both died last chapter. gg's


Just another W for Law and he's not even in this shit!

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Luffyfan38 (Feb 11, 2022)

TheMoffinMan said:


> Just another W for Law and he's not even in this shit!


I could see Law still having some sort of an importance in this arc some how.

Not to fight any more but some how.

He is a big part of this.


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## Heart Over Blade (Feb 12, 2022)

TheMoffinMan said:


> Just another W for Law and he's not even in this shit!


If only someone made a Law Vs Zoro or Law VS Kid bet thread back then. Even some of the Zoro fans have Law above Zoro right now, let alone non-Zoro fans.


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## Mercurial (Feb 12, 2022)

This is tickling...



This is how it works.

Reactions: Funny 6


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## Incognitos (Feb 13, 2022)

So when do we make the follow up


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## MrPopo (Feb 13, 2022)

Incognitos said:


> So when do we make the follow up


Never unless Oda says which character is stronger


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## Incognitos (Feb 13, 2022)

MrPopo said:


> Never unless Oda says which character is stronger


OP says whenever the battles are all finished or end of Wano.


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## MrPopo (Feb 13, 2022)

Incognitos said:


> OP says whenever the battles are all finished or end of Wano.


And no-one's going to come to an agreement


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## Incognitos (Feb 13, 2022)

Unfortunately as @Beast is banned and he can no longer post I've taken it upon myself to create this thread. To give myself stake in the game I too will delete my account if Kid doesn't win this poll. 

All the battles of parties involved  have finished and we're at the end of Wano.

A reminder of the stakes, these members have bet their Avis and their member tags. 

1. @Kylo Ren 
2. @Stringer 
3. @ice demon slayer 
4. @MashDaddy
5. @Spiegel
6. @nimo77
7. @Jujubatman12
8. @Donquixote Doflamingo
9. @Sloan
10. @DragonSlayerOrnstein
11. @A Optimistic

So without further ado, is Kid stronger than Zoro?

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Shiba D. Inu (Feb 13, 2022)

Beast said:


> I will bet My whole account


Beast already paid the iron price


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## Incognitos (Feb 13, 2022)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> Beast already paid the iron price


I'll take his place


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## convict (Feb 13, 2022)

OP will be back soon take it easy

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 1


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## Incognitos (Feb 13, 2022)

MrPopo said:


> And no-one's going to come to an agreement


Thats why we vote


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## T.D.A (Feb 13, 2022)

"the bet is quite simple, I’m claiming that at the END of Wano, when the battles are said and done, There will be no denying that Kidd is stronger then Zoro. Simple."

Beast will lose, since Zoro fans have enough to argue their case even if you disagree with it.

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 5


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## Ludi (Feb 13, 2022)

T.D.A said:


> "the bet is quite simple, I’m claiming that at the END of Wano, when the battles are said and done, There will be no denying that Kidd is stronger then Zoro. Simple."
> 
> Beast will lose, since Zoro fans have enough to argue their case even if you disagree with it.


Yea and it's not even end of wano yet


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## Karma (Feb 13, 2022)

What even is Kidds best feat?

He broke BM's hand

And had her in deadlock with his beam


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## T.D.A (Feb 13, 2022)

Karma said:


> What even is Kidds best feat?
> 
> *He broke BM's hand*
> 
> And had her in deadlock with his beam



That was Law bruh, and even Japanese readers think so

Reactions: Like 3 | Optimistic 1


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## Karma (Feb 13, 2022)

T.D.A said:


> That was Law bruh, and even Japanese readers think so


Its the King blood thing

We see her using the hand just fine after Laws attack

But the dialogue seems to be referencing Law


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## Great Potato (Feb 13, 2022)

Downplayers trying to deny that Kid did anything in the fight. We can see that Big Mom's arm wasn't snapped until after Punk Corna Dio connected, and she was desperate to avoid getting hit by that move again when Kid launched it a second time.

Reactions: Agree 2 | Winner 1


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## Shiba D. Inu (Feb 13, 2022)

Law did 99% dmg to the hand, and Kidd finished it off

just like he was doing the whole fight

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1


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## MrPopo (Feb 13, 2022)

Karma said:


> Its the King blood thing
> 
> We see her using the hand just fine after Laws attack
> 
> But the dialogue seems to be referencing Law


It's hard to tell as after laws attacks kidd hits her with his bull


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## Jake CENA (Feb 13, 2022)

Kidd can Assign all of Zoro's three swords to his butt.

Gg


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## T.D.A (Feb 13, 2022)

MrPopo said:


> It's hard to tell as after laws attacks kidd hits her with his bull



Exactly, people acting like there were multiple panels of BM using her hand, there wasn't.



Great Potato said:


> Downplayers trying to deny that Kid did anything in the fight. We can see that Big Mom's arm wasn't snapped until after Punk Corna Dio connected, and she was desperate to avoid getting hit by that move again when Kid launched it a second time.



So the majority of OP readers are Kidd downplayers in your opinion.


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## Great Potato (Feb 13, 2022)

T.D.A said:


> So the majority of OP readers are Kidd downplayers in your opinion.



Have you not been on the forum as of late?

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Incognitos (Feb 13, 2022)

Great Potato said:


> Have you not been on the forum as of late?


Has he ever been on this forum?


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## Karma (Feb 13, 2022)

Kidd has the better tanking feats tho


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## Incognitos (Feb 13, 2022)

Karma said:


> Its the King blood thing
> 
> We see her using the hand just fine after Laws attack
> 
> But the dialogue seems to be referencing Law


This has been explained multiple times. She talks about the internal damage from law because you can't see it. 

Her arm was broken by kid. Unless people think she used her broken arm to block?

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Pyriz (Feb 13, 2022)

T.D.A said:


> Zoro fans have enough to argue their case


This bet was always impossible because this part right here is completely subjective.

Reactions: Winner 2


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## T.D.A (Feb 13, 2022)

Pyriz said:


> This bet was always impossible because this part right here is completely subjective.



Beast's fault

Reactions: Funny 2 | Winner 1


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## Mylesime (Feb 13, 2022)

Mylesime said:


> No way.
> This thread will likely not have a conclusive answer because truth be told, Zoro and Kidd are very close to each other, one step behind Luffy.



Zoro and Kid will always be close.....
There will always be arguments for either side.
No one will concede, no one will be able to confirm shit either.....


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## Shiba D. Inu (Feb 13, 2022)

T.D.A said:


> That was Law bruh, and even Japanese readers think so


interesting read


*The person who caused the most damage to the Big Mom*​ 
Even with Kid's big skill         *"Magnetic Cannon (Damned Punk)"* , Big Mom himself does not seem to be injured.       

He continues to be attacked but laughs invincibly.       

So who has done the most damage to the Big Mom in the battle so far? If you think about it ... it's still "low".       

Last time (          ), Rho told Kid that he was a         *winner,* but Big Mom was most dangerous about Rho.       

*"Trafalgar's technique is dangerous ... !!"*         Rho's awakening technique, "○○ Hado (Ville)", which gives a shock from the inside, *broke the ribs and arm bones of the "iron balloon" Big Mom.*        It seems unlikely that Big Mom will chase damage so far.



*The reason why the big mom that fell into the abyss exploded*​ 
*Big Mom, who fell into a large hole opened by Low by the "pursuit"* of Kid's "Magnetic Cannon (Dam Dopunk)",         fell deep into the ground of Wano and finally caused a big explosion!        

By the way, what caused this explosion?        

The big bomb in the arsenal that Yamato had frozen was exploding on the spot ... I thought so, and when I went back and forth between the pages, one big shell was dropped with Mum.        Did this cause a big explosion in the ground!       * In addition to this, since there is a mountain called "Fujiyama" in Wano country that resembles Mt. Fuji, there is a high possibility that there is a "magma chamber" in the basement of Wano country (Mt. Fuji can erupt at any time). It seems to be an active volcano).        The fact that the tip of the mum is swaying like a flame is a sign of that.        If it fell into a magma chamber,* it would be a mum ...         No, is it too ugly?


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## convict (Feb 13, 2022)

To be fair Japanese absolutely love Law and are meh on Kid so not sure they are being fully objective here either

Reactions: Funny 3


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## Shiba D. Inu (Feb 13, 2022)

convict said:


> Japanese absolutely love Law


good taste

Reactions: Winner 3


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## Perrin (Feb 13, 2022)

This fight will never happen so what are we basing the winner on? Bounty?

Reactions: Like 1


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## convict (Feb 13, 2022)

Perrin said:


> This fight will never happen so what are we basing the winner on? Bounty?



Law and Kid will surely have a higher bounty as captain bounties always tend to be higher.

I do think Luffy's bounties will eclipse theirs though and Zoro's will be close.

Something like:

Luffy: 4B
Kid: 2.5B
Law: 2.5B
Zoro: 2.2B

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 1 | Optimistic 1


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## Shiba D. Inu (Feb 13, 2022)

if Law reached magma - you will never hear the end of it from me

Reactions: Funny 3


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## Sieves (Feb 13, 2022)

Sieves said:


> Watch Law still end up doing more than both of them.


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## Perrin (Feb 13, 2022)

convict said:


> Law and Kid will surely have a higher bounty as captain bounties always tend to be higher.
> 
> I do think Luffy's bounties will eclipse theirs though and Zoro's will be close.
> 
> ...


Zoro gets a 2.2b bounty for beating a 1.39b bounty pirate?
I’m on board but think Luffy should get his gomu bounty of 5.656b bounty if that happens.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


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## convict (Feb 13, 2022)

Perrin said:


> Zoro gets a 2.2b bounty for beating a 1.39b bounty pirate?
> I’m on board but think Luffy should get his gomu bounty of 5.656b bounty if that happens.



I am firmly one of those who don’t think that is all he will do this arc. Thriller Bark 2.0 incoming

Reactions: Like 2


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## Perrin (Feb 13, 2022)

convict said:


> I am firmly one of those who don’t think that is all he will do this arc. Thriller Bark 2.0 incoming


He will fail to cut something and get even more damaged?!?

Reactions: Funny 6


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## convict (Feb 13, 2022)

Perrin said:


> He will fail to cut something and get even more damaged?!?



Oh he’ll cut something alright 

But there is a whole other bet thread for that topic

Reactions: Like 2


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## Strobacaxi (Feb 13, 2022)

Perrin said:


> This fight will never happen so what are we basing the winner on? Bounty?


Same thing we base every other hypothetical fight

Bias

Reactions: Funny 4


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## Perrin (Feb 13, 2022)

convict said:


> Oh he’ll cut something alright
> 
> But there is a whole other bet thread for that topic


Oooh, was slow on the old uptake there…

Reactions: Like 1


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## Beast (Feb 24, 2022)

Incognitos said:


> Unfortunately as @Beast is banned and he can no longer post I've taken it upon myself to create this thread. To give myself stake in the game I too will delete my account if Kid doesn't win this poll.
> 
> All the battles of parties involved  have finished and we're at the end of Wano.
> 
> ...


And that’s what you call a kiddstar from the land of Captains! Balls harder then steel to face the world head on!

shit… I didn’t want really delete my account, so shit… thanks for taking the fall my man.

Reactions: Funny 5


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## Firo (Feb 24, 2022)

Beast said:


> And that’s what you call a kiddstar from the land of Captains! Balls harder then steel to face the world head on!
> 
> shit… I didn’t want really delete my account, so shit… thanks for taking the fall my man.


My boy is back.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 2


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## Admiral Akanezumi (Feb 24, 2022)

Beast said:


> And that’s what you call a kiddstar from the land of Captains! Balls harder then steel to face the world head on!
> 
> shit… I didn’t want really delete my account, so shit… thanks for taking the fall my man.


How many notifications did you get while you were banned?

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Beast (Feb 24, 2022)

Rob the Zombie said:


> How many notifications did you get while you were banned?


Lol, only 5… I’m on my phone but it wouldn’t load anything past the latest 5 from today too.

I did check this place out only like Fridays and other random days and damn… I don’t think I’ve ever been so popular on this site.

I thought all these 130 guys were dupes… but damn, I think a good 80% of these guys are active and can’t wait to shit on me.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## TheWiggian (Feb 24, 2022)

Beast said:


> Lol, only 5… I’m on my phone but it wouldn’t load anything past the latest 5 from today too.
> 
> I did check this place out only like Fridays and other random days and damn… I don’t think I’ve ever been so popular on this site.
> 
> I thought all these 130 guys were dupes… but damn, I think a good 80% of these guys are active and can’t wait to shit on me.



You sound like Finalbeta

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Beast (Feb 24, 2022)

TheWiggian said:


> You sound like Finalbeta


I wish I knew what that was… but I’m respectful decline that comparison.

Reactions: Funny 6 | Friendly 1


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## The crazy hacker (Feb 25, 2022)

Its hard to bet against Zoro unless you are Luffy or maybe Law.

Reactions: Like 2


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## A Optimistic (Mar 6, 2022)

Bump.

Let’s discuss how Boro Breath is much stronger than Kidd’s ultimate attack.

Reactions: Like 2 | Funny 4 | Informative 1 | Optimistic 1 | Lewd 1


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## MrAnalogies (Mar 6, 2022)

A Optimistic said:


> Bump.
> 
> Let’s discuss how Boro Breath is much stronger than Kidd’s ultimate attack.


That's kind of iffy.

Boro breath does more raw damage, it blew up a mountain in one shot and also has burning damage (which means it's composed at least partly of flames) since kaido was surprised Luffy could survive it despite being rubber

Punk laser seems to do more pushing damage/high knockback as it's incredibly difficult to push Big Mom and it shit her through the entire onigashama Island and continued for what looked like miles in the sky until it slammed her into the ground. Maybe it's like cyclops laser.

Reactions: Like 1 | Optimistic 1


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## Shiba D. Inu (Mar 6, 2022)

Kidd didnt even make a new hole, he just used/widened the hole that Laws PW already made




MrAnalogies said:


> it shit her through the entire onigashama Island and continued for what looked like miles in the sky until it slammed her into the ground


it pushed her into the armory only. The bomb did the rest.

Reactions: Like 2 | Informative 1


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## Pyriz (Mar 6, 2022)

A Optimistic said:


> Bump.
> 
> Let’s discuss how Boro Breath is much stronger than Kidd’s ultimate attack.


Damned Punk hurt BM. Boro Breath pushed Luffy away for a couple seconds.


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## A Optimistic (Mar 6, 2022)

Pyriz said:


> Damned Punk hurt BM. Boro Breath pushed Luffy away for a couple seconds.



Luffy is stronger than Big Mom.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Yumi Zoro (Mar 6, 2022)

TheWiggian said:


> You sound like Finalbeta


Finalbeta is a loyal Zoro fans,a Zoro fans at Heart. They cant be the same.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 2


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## Ren. (Mar 7, 2022)

Beast said:


> This is a bet thread for the insensible Zoro wank, what way to kill it then to embarrass all the tards at once.
> 
> the bet is quite simple, I’m claiming that at the END of Wano, when the battles are said and done, There will be no denying that Kidd is stronger then Zoro. Simple.
> 
> ...


I know I already said this  but Kid wins 100%.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Winner 1 | Useful 1 | Optimistic 1


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## Ren. (Mar 7, 2022)

convict said:


> Law and Kid will surely have a higher bounty as captain bounties always tend to be higher.
> 
> I do think Luffy's bounties will eclipse theirs though and Zoro's will be close.
> 
> ...


Luffy is getting 5B. 
Zoro prob 1.5.

The rest I agree.


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## xmysticgohanx (Mar 7, 2022)

Zoro clearly beats kid. Zoro vs Law is actually debatable. This isn't

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1 | Optimistic 2


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## truedetectiveseason2intro (Mar 7, 2022)

xmysticgohanx said:


> Zoro clearly beats kid. Zoro vs Law is actually debatable. This isn't


Thank you for settling the thread. Since you’re always wrong we can now say for sure it’s Kidd>zoro!

Reactions: Winner 3 | Tier Specialist 3


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## Yumi Zoro (Mar 7, 2022)

truedetectiveseason2intro said:


> Thank you for settling the thread. Since you’re always wrong we can now say for sure it’s Kidd>zoro!


Truefalsedetectiveseason2intro



And current Zoro>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1hpRooftop Zoro>>>>>>>Kidd.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 3


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## Beast (Mar 7, 2022)

Yumi Zoro said:


> Truefalsedetectiveseason2intro
> 
> 
> 
> And current Zoro>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1hpRooftop Zoro>>>>>>>Kidd.


How are you even playing with peoples usernames like yours isn’t Yummy Zoro

Reactions: Funny 3


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## Yumi Zoro (Mar 7, 2022)

Beast said:


> How are you even playing with peoples usernames like yours isn’t Yummy Zoro



Zoro>>>>>>>>>>>Kid regardless of agenda.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Beast (Mar 7, 2022)

Yumi Zoro said:


> Zoro>>>>>>>>>>>Kid regardless of agenda.


It’s not Opposite Day yet


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## Yumi Zoro (Mar 7, 2022)

Beast said:


> It’s not Opposite Day yet


You missed the most important moment in kid's carrier when everyone though he will finish Big Mom.

That was 3 week ago.

Good thing Oda changed the outcome with Kazembo bomb.
And this sucessfully the killing the kid hype.


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## Beast (Mar 7, 2022)

Yumi Zoro said:


> You missed the most important moment in kid's carrier when everyone though he will finish Big Mom.
> 
> That was 3 week ago.
> 
> ...


Seems more like definitions change when Kidd is around. You mean 4 weeks ago, when they went as far as making up complete BS in the fan translation?  Yeah, I think i seen enough. 

Oda changed the outcome and it wasn’t kidds attack that wasn’t the cause of it all. Well, too bad for you Oda did and he even put it in box for special people like you.


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## Ludi (Mar 7, 2022)

Beast said:


> the bet is quite simple, I’m claiming that at the END of Wano, when the battles are said and done, There will be no denying that Kidd is stronger then Zoro. Simple


With this purpose of the thread I vote against that stance and thus against Kidd.  It's for sure not "there will be no denying that Kidd is stronger".

Reactions: Agree 1


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## MrAnalogies (Mar 7, 2022)

Is it safe to say that two commander level fighters can take on one yonko?

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Beast (Mar 7, 2022)

Ludi said:


> With this purpose of the thread I vote against that stance and thus against Kidd.  It's for sure not "there will be no denying that Kidd is stronger".


Say what?
I guess you’re not wearing the Roger pic for nothing,  you saw the end of the arc already?

But yes, you are right. There is denial as of right now but considering the last chapter… we are far from done. 
If the arc ended today, I would delete my own account never mind losing a bet.


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## Ludi (Mar 7, 2022)

Beast said:


> Say what?
> I guess you’re not wearing the Roger pic for nothing,  you saw the end of the arc already?
> 
> But yes, you are right. There is denial as of right now but considering the last chapter… we are far from done.
> If the arc ended today, I would delete my own account never mind losing a bet.


I wouldn't vote if I knew the answer or saw the end, I'm voting as of now and what I think will be the most likely outcome. But glad you agree that if this is it based on current feats you lost the bet.

Reactions: Winner 4 | Informative 1


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## truedetectiveseason2intro (Mar 7, 2022)

Yumi Zoro said:


> Truefalsedetectiveseason2intro
> 
> 
> 
> And current Zoro>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1hpRooftop Zoro>>>>>>>Kidd.


It’s a tv show

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Mercurial (Mar 7, 2022)

Current Zoro > Current Kid > Rooftop Zoro > Rooftop Kid

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 1 | Winner 2 | Optimistic 1


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## Brian (Mar 7, 2022)

Post ZKK zoro might be too much for Kidd

Reactions: Winner 2 | Friendly 1 | Optimistic 1


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## Beast (Mar 7, 2022)

Ludi said:


> I wouldn't vote if I knew the answer or saw the end, I'm voting as of now and what I think will be the most likely outcome. But glad you agree that if this is it based on current feats you lost the bet.


Lol, more of a misunderstanding. Kidd is stronger then Zoro, that’s not why I would delete my account if it ended today. Just more of the travesty of the arc is not worth reading on past wano.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Mercurial (Mar 7, 2022)

@Beast Stop suffering this hard bro... all this salt will damage you.

There must be a reason for why people put Zoro > Kidd.
Reaching, being butthurt and hysterically calling everyone a blind Zoro fan is not going to change that.
Just accept it.

Reactions: Funny 4 | Winner 3


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## Beast (Mar 7, 2022)

Suffering?
If that’s what happens when Kidd beats a yonko… then bring on the suffering. 

Merci don’t you still have work to do?
Like selling Zoro piece, where Zoro low diff king? 

I think just from GPs thread, not one single Poster on this forum has made a credible post regarding why or how Zoro is stronger then Kidd, he is passed out after fighting king, so I ain’t stressing, the panels speak for themselves


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## Mercurial (Mar 7, 2022)

Beast said:


> Suffering?
> If that’s what happens when Kidd beats a yonko… then bring on the suffering.


*You mean what happens when Law + Kidd fighting in a 2 vs 1 and needing massive PIS* (enemy having them defeated into the ground, with all their subordinates praying the enemy to stop, and said enemy, instead of easily giving the killing blow, instead lowers her guard and turns behind) *and external factors* (bombs and Kanzenbo) *to "beat" a Yonko, achieving not a conventional victory by KO *(like Jinbe vs WsW, Killer vs Hawkins, Sanji vs Queen, Zoro vs King and so on) *but some kind of a BFR* (Big Mom tanked all their attacks and was completely conscious and able to fight, hell she was conscious even after the bombs, she just could not come back to the place to continue the fight)*?*



Beast said:


> Merci don’t you still have work to do?
> Like selling Zoro piece, where Zoro low diff king?


Zoro after gaining Advanced Conqueror

- Didn't receive ANY DAMAGE from his opponent
- Dodged, blocked, tanked or overwhelmed EVERYTHING his opponent tried to do
- Defeated his opponent in three hits (and of the three, one being a nameless attack and another being a basic named attack)
- Could hold back his strongest move, that was not needed overkill; therefore Full Power Adv CoC Zoro > Adv CoC Zoro vs King >> King

The entire fight, overall, is high diff, if not very high diff or maybe even extreme diff.
But Adv CoC vs Zoro, meaning Current Zoro vs King, is a low to mid diff victory.
At the beginning Zoro was on the losing end (also because Enma giving him unnecessary trouble). But once he gained control of the sword and unlocked Advanced Haki, he completely overwhelmed King, and what was a losing fight became a stomp in his favour. That's a fact, it's undesputable. After gaining Adv CoC, Zoro annihilated King. And obviously Current Zoro is Adv CoC Zoro, not the one previous to the power up, which we don't care anymore.





Beast said:


> I think just from GPs thread, not one single Poster on this forum has made a credible post regarding why or how Zoro is stronger then Kidd


Kidd is ~ Law (well, it could be very well argued that Kidd is < Law, but let's leave that...).
And Law is a swordsman (Oda called it as that and recognized him as that in multiple sources... and his strongest move is a freaking sword attack). So this already implies that Zoro > Law ~ Kidd.

They are in the same tier, stronger than YC1s but still not completely as strong as full fledged Top Tiers. After gaining his power up, Zoro stomped a YC1 in 1 vs 1, while after gaining their power up, Kidd + Law extreme diffed a Top Tier in 2 vs 1 (actually not defeating her by KO but merely achieving a BFR, and needing external factors being involved to achieve even that).
Before the power ups, Zoro objectively did better than Kidd and Law during Roof Piece.
After that, all of them gained massive power ups, Advanced Conqueror Haki and DF Awakening. Proportionally, nothing changed.



Beast said:


> he is passed out after fighting king, so I ain’t stressing, the panels speak for themselves


Very unluckily, it seems that Oda and Shonen Jump have a completely different take on the argument. Their point of view is that Zoro ended as the undesputed dominant winner of the fight (so he didn't barely extreme diffed) and that after the fight he fell to the ground because of the after effects of the drug that healed him before (so he didn't faint because of tiredness, received damage and consumpted energies).
Weird, hah?



Overall Zoro was pushed hard by King, but after the former gained his power up, he annihilated the latter.
We literally witnessed panels of Zoro being still good after the fight. While King is defeated, with his weapon broken and his body mutilated, Zoro is taking the luxury of making a cool badass useless pose lol.



At a certain point he fell because the after effects of the drug that healed before, that now gives him double of the damage he received. It's literally what is shown and stated in the manga and now stated again by Shonen Jump's official source.
Don't go in blatant denial, come on.

Reactions: Winner 6 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Yumi Zoro (Mar 7, 2022)

@Beast you should worry more about Sanji>Kidd than Zolo.

Zolo is out of kids League and if you arent lucky enough even Sanji will be out of kids League.

EoS Sanji will be Yonko level bar minimum.

Reactions: Like 3 | Funny 2


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## Shiba D. Inu (Mar 7, 2022)

xmysticgohanx said:


> Zoro vs Law is actually debatable


There is hope for you

Reactions: Winner 1 | Neutral 1


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## o0Shinthi0o (Mar 7, 2022)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> There is hope for you


when somone with Zoro > Law in their name tags says law vs Zoro is debatable . then u know who wins

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 3


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## Vengeance (Mar 7, 2022)

> There will be no denying that Kidd is stronger then Zoro.



@Beast you lost the bet right from the start anyway

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 3 | Optimistic 1


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## Yumi Zoro (Mar 7, 2022)

o0Shinthi0o said:


> when somone with Zoro > Law in their name tags says law vs Zoro is debatable . then u know who wins



There will be only one WSS Aka Zoro.


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## o0Shinthi0o (Mar 7, 2022)

Yumi Zoro said:


> There *will *be only one WSS Aka Zoro.


thats the key word . NOT NOW .


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## Yumi Zoro (Mar 7, 2022)

o0Shinthi0o said:


> thats the key word . NOT NOW .



But eventualy


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## o0Shinthi0o (Mar 7, 2022)

Yumi Zoro said:


> But eventualy


 Stay strong my friend until that day comes . gambare  gambare

Reactions: Funny 4


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## Yumi Zoro (Mar 7, 2022)

o0Shinthi0o said:


> Stay strong my friend until that day comes . gambare  gambare



Hey hey WE wont start fighting over who is strong between trafar and Zori right now. Would WE? I have better thing to do than that right now.

Im enjoying seeing Beast doing gymnastic right now to brink back Kidd into relevance.

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Quipchaque (Mar 7, 2022)

MrAnalogies said:


> Is it safe to say that two commander level fighters can take on one yonko?



Depends which ones but generally yes. Literally the only argument that implies otherwise is PerosPero the fool crying about Mom's invincibility. And that guy is clearly clueless and delusional. "BiG eViL FuRrIeS tRy To SaVe ThEIr fRiEnD hOw dArE tHeY"... What *low*n honestly.


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## Quipchaque (Mar 7, 2022)

Ludi said:


> With this purpose of the thread I vote against that stance and thus against Kidd.  It's for sure not "there will be no denying that Kidd is stronger".



Agreed. I voted dad about a year or half a year ago but the agenda is strong in " Beast" and even now I am torn on who is stronger tbh. They seem close. For now I'd say dad is stronger but If Zoro gets another upgrade he is stronger.


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## TrolonoaZoro (Mar 7, 2022)

Zoro defeating someone that did this with no diff
 should automatically make you stronger than someone who did it with extreme diff in a duo

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1 | Winner 2


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## MrAnalogies (Mar 7, 2022)

Quipchaque said:


> Depends which ones but generally yes. Literally the only argument that implies otherwise is PerosPero the fool crying about Mom's invincibility. And that guy is clearly clueless and delusional. "BiG eViL FuRrIeS tRy To SaVe ThEIr fRiEnD hOw dArE tHeY"... What *low*n honestly.


Well what I'm getting at is that based on portrayal, it seems law and Kidd are roughly first commander level. Which is what Zoro is. Kidd and Zoro are close to the same level as of now regardless of which one people think are stronger. Either way, if they fought the winner would probably be heavily injured and completely spent.

Feats and portrayal are two different things. Even though kid wasn't very flashy or overtly impressive, Oda wants to hammer home the point he's a rival of Luffy's. Killer and Zoro's fight was dead even despite killer not having his usual weapons and Zoro just barely won. Oda might be hinting Kidd>/= to Zoro.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Disagree 1


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## Quipchaque (Mar 7, 2022)

MrAnalogies said:


> Well what I'm getting at is that based on portrayal, it seems law and Kidd are roughly first commander level. Which is what Zoro is. Kidd and Zoro are close to the same level as of now regardless of which one people think are stronger. Either way, if they fought the winner would probably be heavily injured and completely spent.
> 
> Feats and portrayal are two different things. Even though kid wasn't very flashy or overtly impressive, Oda wants to hammer home the point he's a rival of Luffy's. Killer and Zoro's fight was dead even despite killer not having his usual weapons and Zoro just barely won. Oda might be hinting Kidd>/= to Zoro.



Agree with most of this. You are definitely smarter than most people here. Or at least smarter than most of the trolls. I'd argue that Zoro is undoubtedly stronger than Killer but yeah the portrayal you take from that is similar to how I interpret it too which is why for now I still give dad the edge.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## xmysticgohanx (Mar 8, 2022)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> There is hope for you





o0Shinthi0o said:


> when somone with Zoro > Law in their name tags says law vs Zoro is debatable . then u know who wins


i still have zoro > law but i see why people see why law wins. it basically comes down to whether law can use kroom longer than zoro can use advanced coc

Kid > Zoro makes 0 sense tho

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Quipchaque (Mar 8, 2022)

xmysticgohanx said:


> Kid > Zoro makes 0 sense tho



It does when Law>Zoro makes sense to you. After all dad is equal to or stronger than Law. His offense is also in the same ballpark since he has awakening too and did comparable amounts of damage.



Shiba D. Inu said:


> There is hope for you



You shouldn't say that after constantly pretending for years that ashura does no longer exist or is irrelevant. He is at least fair despite having good arguments for why Zoro could be stronger. You on the other hand tried to make Law look like the allstar of allstars despite getting clobbered by Doflamingo which everyone deep down knew wouldn't have happened to a rooftop level of bloodlust Zoro.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Funny 1 | Optimistic 1


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## Beast (Mar 8, 2022)

TrolonoaZoro said:


> Zoro defeating someone that did this with no diff
> should automatically make you stronger than someone who did it with extreme diff in a duo


No diff but Zoro is seeing death itself  



If I’m being truthful, 90% of you are cheerleaders, more for show then actual debaters lol. Your words and explanations hold a worth of zero to me and many. 


You must think I’m a loose screw if you think this thread is about me having a debate with the likes of Merci, yummy Zoro, Dunno, Shiba, every username with a Zoro in it. 

This thread is as it speaks, Kidd will be certainly above Zoro at the end of this arc. I ain’t never seen so many people actually deny that it’s possible and not because Kidd is stronger then Zoro or Zoro is stronger then Kidd but  wait for it… ‘it won’t be clear and not everyone will agree’, well too bad facts and opinions are two different things. 

Many of the people here some of the ones I named believe Zoro is equal to or was stronger then Luffy at the start of the TS now, that’s an opinion, yes a baseless opinion but an opinion nonetheless, now Luffy was always stronger then Zoro… now, that’s a factual statement, a fact.


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## TrolonoaZoro (Mar 8, 2022)

I was pro Kidd and Law conventionally defeating Big Mom and was rooting for it when a lot of people thought it was impossible. 
Oda decided to go for a middle ground of Big Mom getting out battled. 

Unless Kidd and Law become participants again, and it is possible. Your window of Wano feat for him is getting short. 

You're essentially battling Rooftop feats (Dragon Blaze, Ashura, Hakai) AFTER Kidd just went against a Yonkou, think about that. 

I don't see how Kidd supersedes 2 Yonkous being afraid or taken aback when you block the most powerful attack in the manga, lol.


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## Strobacaxi (Mar 8, 2022)

truedetectiveseason2intro said:


> It’s a tv show


Damn is that season 2 intro really that good?


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## truedetectiveseason2intro (Mar 8, 2022)

Strobacaxi said:


> Damn is that season 2 intro really that good?


No I thought it was really funny like 7 years ago. Season 1 was the only really good one imo


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## Empathy (Mar 10, 2022)

Oof, bet on Kid years ago. Never would’ve guessed that Zoro would look more impressive to me.

Reactions: Like 1 | Informative 1 | Friendly 1 | Neutral 1


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## Quipchaque (Mar 10, 2022)

TrolonoaZoro said:


> I don't see how Kidd supersedes 2 Yonkous being afraid or taken aback when you block the most powerful attack in the manga, lol.



To be fair being afraid is one thing but beating a yonko is a feat easily comparable. One can put this above a yonko fearing defeat because one is assumption but the other is accomplished reality. Noone but Akainu and Blackbeard ever beat a yonko. Think about that. And even them needed a bit of help. So this feat is truly amazing regardless of where you put Bigger Mom. A yonko getting beaten is still huge.



Empathy said:


> Oof, bet on Kid years ago. Never would’ve guessed that Zoro would look more impressive to me.



That's what happens when you don't keep an open mind. Characters like Dad and Zoro will always impress and surprise you even when a hundred chapters earlier you thought they are weak. I keep trying to tell people that but they don't listen. It's usually kids and trolls who don't get that. In One Piece willpower is trump. So characters who are plot relevant and have lots of willpower will by default be stronger than the ones who don't. That is why Shanks and Dragon will be revealed as stronger than Kaido. Mihawk will be stronger than  prime Sengoku etc.

Another wink of the author are things like Whiskey Peak and haki swords. Things like that need to be taken serious. They are not coincidences.


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## TrolonoaZoro (Mar 10, 2022)

Quipchaque said:


> To be fair being afraid is one thing but beating a yonko is a feat easily comparable. One can put this above a yonko fearing defeat because one is assumption but the other is accomplished reality. Noone but Akainu and Blackbeard ever beat a yonko. Think about that. And even them needed a bit of help. So this feat is truly amazing regardless of where you put Bigger Mom. A yonko getting beaten is still huge.


Big mom is an absolute maniac, but she got out battled. And it happened 3 different times in this arc. Technically Zoro, Killer, Law and Kidd already defeated her. 

So sending her down a hole is not without precedent and we already know what it takes.


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## A Optimistic (Mar 13, 2022)

Imu chopped up Blackbeard's photo into pieces because he is the reincarnation of Xebec, the man who almost conquered the world. The Gorosei and Imu want Luffy dead because he is the reincarnation of Joyboy, the man who almost defeated the World Government 800 years ago. As we can see, reincarnation is a major plot point in One Piece at the moment. We also know that Zoro is the reincarnation of the Sword God Ryuma.

Is Kidd the reincarnation of anyone? It's going to be tough for people to claim "Kidd > Zoro" from now on without Kidd having his own reincarnation ghost inside his body.

Reactions: Like 3 | Funny 2 | Informative 1


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## MrPopo (Mar 13, 2022)

A Optimistic said:


> Imu chopped up Blackbeard's photo into pieces because he is the reincarnation of Xebec, the man who almost conquered the world. The Gorosei and Imu want Luffy dead because he is the reincarnation of Joyboy, the man who almost defeated the World Government 800 years ago. As we can see, reincarnation is a major plot point in One Piece at the moment. We also know that Zoro is the reincarnation of the Sword God Ryuma.
> 
> Is Kidd the reincarnation of anyone? It's going to be tough for people to claim "Kidd > Zoro" from now on without Kidd having his won reincarnation ghost inside his body.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


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## A Optimistic (Mar 13, 2022)

Zoro is the reincarnation of Ryuma, that's not really up for debate after this panel.

Reactions: Like 2 | Funny 1 | Winner 2


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## Garcher (Mar 13, 2022)

Half of One Piece is Zoro's story. Kid is an irrelevant side character Oda created on the fly. Kid can at best achieve current top tier strength, but Zoro will go beyond that like Luffy.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 1 | Informative 1 | Neutral 1


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## Incognitos (Mar 13, 2022)

Garcher said:


> Half of One Piece is Zoro's story. Kid is an irrelevant side character Oda created on the fly. Kid can at best achieve current top tier strength, but Zoro will go beyond that like Luffy.


Yet Oda says he has big plans for kid. Kid will be stronger than Zoro EoS. He's stronger than Zoro now. He always has been stronger than Zoro and always will be. 

Kid is Luffys WB

Reactions: Friendly 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Shiba D. Inu (Mar 13, 2022)

sad that MC Zoro got surpassed by Law and Kidd

Reactions: Creative 1


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## truedetectiveseason2intro (Mar 13, 2022)

Garcher said:


> Half of One Piece is Zoro's story. Kid is an irrelevant side character Oda created on the fly. Kid can at best achieve current top tier strength, but Zoro will go beyond that like Luffy.


So you’re reading half piece??


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## Incognitos (Mar 13, 2022)

truedetectiveseason2intro said:


> So you’re reading half piece??


No no no he's only reading half of one piece. He skips every chapter that Zoro doesn't have good feats in. Poor guy still doesn't know big mom is down


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## MartyMcFly1 (Mar 13, 2022)

Incognitos said:


> Yet Oda says he has big plans for kid. Kid will be stronger than Zoro EoS. He's stronger than Zoro now. He always has been stronger than Zoro and always will be.
> 
> Kid is Luffys WB


Nope Zoro is stronger and will remain so.

Reactions: Like 4


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## MartyMcFly1 (Mar 13, 2022)

MartyMcFly1 said:


> Nope Zoro is stronger and will remain so.


To comment on this, if the story is heading where I think it is heading I’m pretty sure we’ll have an ‘answer’ to this in the next 4-5 weeks, and I don’t mean ZKK. 

Also, I think one of my predictions is happening very soon.


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## Vengeance (Mar 16, 2022)

Sword God vs Law's sidekick

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 2


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## Incognitos (Mar 16, 2022)

Vengeance said:


> Sword God vs Law's sidekick


 I understand why kid is the sword god, he had complete control over metal and swords. But why is Zoro laws sidekick?

Reactions: Funny 3 | Winner 1


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## Firo (Mar 16, 2022)

Incognitos said:


> I understand why kid is the sword god, he had complete control over metal and swords. But why is Zoro laws sidekick?


It’s the other way around. Kid is the sidekick.

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Incognitos (Mar 16, 2022)

Firo said:


> It’s the other way around. Kid is the sidekick.


Idk law should be kids sidekick if anything. Remind me who was the support? Who did the set ups for kids finishers? (Which law admitted) and one has CoC and the other doesn't.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Firo (Mar 16, 2022)

Incognitos said:


> Idk law should be kids sidekick if anything. Remind me who was the support? Who did the set ups for kids finishers? (Which law admitted) and one has CoC and the other doesn't.


Was the the support and the one who showcased more firepower. Sorry champ.

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## Shiba D. Inu (Mar 16, 2022)

Incognitos said:


> Remind me who was the support?


Law is the support
and the main dps
and the tank
and the mage
everything at once


Kidd was there to look "pretty"

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 3 | Optimistic 1


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## Incognitos (Mar 16, 2022)

Firo said:


> Was the the support and the one who showcased more firepower. Sorry champ.


Big mom reacted the same way to their attacks. She had the same reaction to damned punk as she did to puncture Willie.


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## Incognitos (Mar 16, 2022)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> Law is the support
> and the main dps
> and the tank
> and the mage
> everything at once


They're equal in DPS. Kid definitely tanked more damage I'm not to sure what mage means since kid was the brawler. 

Reminder that kid is the only person in manga to have fought a yonko 1v1 and to have continuously fought until he won.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Firo (Mar 16, 2022)

Incognitos said:


> Big mom reacted the same way to their attacks. She had the same reaction to damned punk as she did to puncture Willie.


You saw the result of the landscape afterwards. 


Incognitos said:


> They're equal in DPS. Kid definitely tanked more damage I'm not to sure what mage means since kid was the brawler.
> 
> Reminder that kid is the only person in manga to have fought a yonko 1v1 and to have continuously fought until he won.


I recall him being on the floor while Law was saving his ass until Killer beat Hawkins.

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## ShadoLord (Mar 16, 2022)

desperate Kid fans pleading their losing case against Law's DC feats



>Meme taking puncture wille, she was too busy coughing blood and screaming to be shit talking
>Meme taking Damned Punk, she has enough leeway to talk shit about it tickling her

Reactions: Like 1 | Optimistic 1


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## Incognitos (Mar 16, 2022)

Firo said:


> You saw the result of the landscape afterwards.
> 
> I recall him being on the floor while Law was saving his ass until Killer beat Hawkins.


Kids attacks never hit the floor. They hit big mom so our frame of reference should be big mom and how much the damage they did to her. 

And before that kid was 1v1 big mom, the same amount of time Luffy 1v1d a weakened kaidou and lost. 



Zoro said:


> desperate Kid fans pleading their losing case against Law's DC feats
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That was a mid translation and doesn't appear in the official translation. Try again. 

Once again the law and Zoro fans have to resort to arguing in bad faith and using fan translations instead of the official ones to make there case. Sad


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## ShadoLord (Mar 16, 2022)

Incognitos said:


> Kids attacks never hit the floor. They hit big mom so our frame of reference should be big mom and how much the damage they did to her.
> 
> And before that kid was 1v1 big mom, the same amount of time Luffy 1v1d a weakened kaidou and lost.
> 
> ...


lmfao people actually read the official translation AFTER the spoilers and fan trans? Ya got too much time on your hands bro, Mid Piece ain't worth all that.


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## Incognitos (Mar 16, 2022)

Zoro said:


> lmfao people actually read the official translation AFTER the spoilers and fan trans? Ya got too much time on your hands bro, Mid Piece ain't worth all that.


I only read the official translation. It explains a lot that you don't.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## ShadoLord (Mar 16, 2022)

Incognitos said:


> I only read the official translation. It explains a lot that you don't.


and it explains what you're missing out on.


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## Vivo Diez (Mar 16, 2022)

Kidd beat a yonko, Zoro best a yonko first commander. I think the outcome of this thread is pretty obvious.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## truedetectiveseason2intro (Mar 16, 2022)

Zoro said:


> and it explains what you're missing out on.


You’re not very smart


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## ShadoLord (Mar 16, 2022)

truedetectiveseason2intro said:


> You’re not very smart


Nuhuh, sir detectiveseason


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## truedetectiveseason2intro (Mar 16, 2022)

Zoro said:


> Nuhuh, sir detectiveseason


Oh ok


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## Beast (Mar 16, 2022)

Looool, now they’re best hope is that Zoro
Is the reincarnation of some next guy  

And where are the Law fans coming from?
I swear BM literally only acknowledged Law once and that was during his last two hits  
Better sit back on that support chair

I can see about the 3 real law fans in panic and the other 50 Zoro boys hiding behind the mask sweating.

Reactions: Funny 1 | Optimistic 1


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## A Optimistic (Mar 16, 2022)

Vivo Diez said:


> Kidd beat a yonko, Zoro best a yonko first commander. I think the outcome of this thread is pretty obvious.



you mean kidd/law/bombs beat big mom 

not an accurate comparison

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1


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## Beast (Mar 16, 2022)

BM would have drowned or knocked herself out via falling, so knock that shit our.

Water made BM lose memory , 10k fall is putting her to sleep


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## A Optimistic (Mar 16, 2022)

Did the last chapter make you nervous bro? You know luffy just unlocked his ghost

and Zoro got his ghost

where’s Kidd’s ghost?

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 2 | Winner 1


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## Shiba D. Inu (Mar 16, 2022)

A Optimistic said:


> and Zoro got his ghost

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Typhon (Mar 16, 2022)

Kidd>Zoro

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Incognitos (Mar 16, 2022)

A Optimistic said:


> Did the last chapter make you nervous bro? You know luffy just unlocked his ghost
> 
> and Zoro got his ghost
> 
> where’s Kidd’s ghost?


Kid doesn't need a ghost. Chosen stans will never understand liking a character who grinds to the top without help

Reactions: Like 1


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## A Optimistic (Mar 16, 2022)

Incognitos said:


> Kid doesn't need a ghost. Chosen stans will never understand liking a character who grinds to the top without help



without help? the first time we saw Kidd post time skip was him organizing a supernova help gathering to jump a Yonko

Reactions: Winner 2


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## Incognitos (Mar 16, 2022)

A Optimistic said:


> without help? the first time we saw Kidd post time skip was him organizing a supernova help gathering to jump a Yonko


My bad. I should have been more clear. I forgot that reading comprehension wasn't s strong suit of the legion and kid haters. Without asspulls from the author.


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## A Optimistic (Mar 16, 2022)

Incognitos said:


> My bad. I should have been more clear. I forgot that reading comprehension wasn't s strong suit of the legion and kid haters. Without asspulls from the author.



big mom walking away and choosing to spare them after the beat down she gave Kidd and law wasn’t an asspull?

I’ll give you more one chance, try again

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Incognitos (Mar 16, 2022)

A Optimistic said:


> big mom walking away and choosing to spare them after the beat down she gave Kidd and law wasn’t an asspull?
> 
> I’ll give you more one chance, try again


Kid and law bickering while giving big mom time to recover and heal wasn't an asspulls? That's PIS and they both had it it cancels out.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## A Optimistic (Mar 16, 2022)

Incognitos said:


> Kid and law bickering while giving big mom time to recover and heal wasn't an asspulls? That's PIS and they both had it it cancels out.



you’re moving the goalpost. The discussion wasn’t about what asspulls big mom had.

you said Kidd won without any asspulls and I pointed one out and now you’re trying to deflect 

oh well, I gave you three chances. Can’t give you anymore for today


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## Shiba D. Inu (Mar 16, 2022)

BM never beat Kidd and Law  if she did they wouldnt be able to stand up and keep fighting even now


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## Gledania (Mar 16, 2022)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> BM never beat Kidd and Law  if she did they wouldnt be able to stand up and keep fighting even now


She turned her back when she could have finished them.

Accept it.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Mar 16, 2022)

Gledinius said:


> could have finished them.


headcanon


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## Incognitos (Mar 16, 2022)

Gledinius said:


> She turned her back when she could have finished them.
> 
> Accept it.


Kid and law did the exact same thing. 

Accept it

Reactions: Agree 2 | Optimistic 1


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## Beast (Mar 16, 2022)

@A Optimistic 
If you wanna go there, Kidd has the will of the original red haired Gorosei, A man of legend that took on Joyboy alongside Imu and took on Ryumma.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Gledania (Mar 16, 2022)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> headcanon


They were laying on the ground  

Turning her back is what ruined her chances.

Their "win" is full of flaws.

Accept it.

Reactions: Winner 2


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## Shiba D. Inu (Mar 16, 2022)

Gledinius said:


> They were laying on the ground


so?


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## A Optimistic (Mar 16, 2022)

Beast said:


> @A Optimistic
> If you wanna go there, Kidd has the will of the original red haired Gorosei, A man of legend that took on Joyboy alongside Imu and took on Ryumma.



sounds like everybody got a ghost but law

not surprised

Reactions: Funny 3


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## Gledania (Mar 16, 2022)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> so?



She could have killed them. 

Laying in the ground = unable to move.

Need to regain energy.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 1 | Winner 1


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## Incognitos (Mar 16, 2022)

Gledinius said:


> She could have killed them.
> 
> Laying in the ground = unable to move.
> 
> Need to regain energy.


Kid and law did the exact same thing to big mom.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Mar 16, 2022)

Gledinius said:


> She could have killed them.


proof?



Gledinius said:


> Laying in the ground = unable to move.


until Law did move .. quite a lot in fact


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## Ayy lmao (Mar 16, 2022)

yea i somehow doubt BM turning her back against them for 5 seconds allowed both of them to regain enough energy from being supposedly completely depleted of stamina, to keep fighting and spam awakening for nearly 2 whole chapters.

There was no info box stating she won, so she didn't. If they were unable to fight, she would've won,thus getting the winning info box.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## truedetectiveseason2intro (Mar 17, 2022)

Gledinius said:


> She could have killed them.
> 
> Laying in the ground = unable to move.
> 
> Need to regain energy.


You know that thing about when that one friend in the group who’s got the easiest thing to joke about is laughing and you gotta put them in their place? That’s what you are rn

Reactions: Informative 1


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## MrPopo (Mar 17, 2022)

Vivo Diez said:


> Kidd beat a yonko, Zoro best a yonko first commander. I think the outcome of this thread is pretty obvious.


You would be surprised


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## MrPopo (Mar 17, 2022)

A Optimistic said:


> sounds like everybody got a ghost but law
> 
> not surprised


Law has the will of D

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 1


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## TheWiggian (Mar 17, 2022)

A Optimistic said:


> you mean kidd/law/bombs beat big mom
> 
> not an accurate comparison



He wanted to say Kanjuroo beat a yonko with Law's help.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Gledania (Mar 17, 2022)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> until Law did move .. quite a lot in fact



You ever watched a boxing fight ? Or read a manga about boxing ? See when fighter grab his opponent for few (in a hug like way) to unable him to move for few seconds ? He does that to recover energy. Even if it's for few seconds. 

If a character is laying on the ground it's to recover energy. Between the time BM was making her speech and turned around,  law had enough time to get enough energy to move again.

You don't lay down for the sake of laying down in mid battle.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Optimistic 1


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## Shiba D. Inu (Mar 17, 2022)

Gledinius said:


> You ever watched a boxing fight ? Or read a manga about boxing ? See when fighter grab his opponent for few (in a hug like way) to unable him to move for few seconds ? He does that to recover energy. Even if it's for few seconds.
> 
> If a character is laying on the ground it's to recover energy. Between the time BM was making her speech and turned around,  law had enough time to get enough energy to move again.
> 
> You don't lay down for the sake of laying down in mid battle.


so no proof

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## A Optimistic (Mar 17, 2022)

MrPopo said:


> Law has the will of D



so does 20 other characters, that’s not special 

let me know when law has the ghost of one specific individual

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Shiba D. Inu (Mar 17, 2022)

Law doesnt need a ghost to be superior to Zoro

Not that Zoro has any ghost  he isnt special like Luffy

Reactions: Like 1


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## Gledania (Mar 17, 2022)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> Not that Zoro has any ghost  he isnt special like Luffy


Advanced CoC with king ambition + WSS title is special enough for him to be > Law  

Zoro > Your fav.

How does it feel ? 

Hurt much ?

Reactions: Like 2 | Funny 2 | Winner 3 | Optimistic 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## MrPopo (Mar 17, 2022)

A Optimistic said:


> so does 20 other characters, that’s not special
> 
> let me know when law has the ghost of one specific individual


The D's are linked to being the wg greatest enemies

The wg gets shook just for the name getting known


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## A Optimistic (Mar 17, 2022)

MrPopo said:


> The D's are linked to being the wg greatest enemies
> 
> The wg gets shook just for the name getting known



yeah I’m sure vice admiral Saul has the WG shivering in their boots the same way ryuma, xebec, and joyboy did

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Shiba D. Inu (Mar 17, 2022)

>WG sends CP0 to Wano for years
>b-but they're totally afraid of the old relic Ryuuma


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## Firo (Mar 17, 2022)

I’m still shocked that Luffy took one of Kaido’s strongest attacks and got up before Zoro after King/medicine situation .
I voted for Zoro but Kid has better endurance feats. But yeah, fuck Mid.


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## MrPopo (Mar 17, 2022)

A Optimistic said:


> yeah I’m sure vice admiral Saul has the WG shivering in their boots the same way ryuma, xebec, and joyboy did


Are you forgetting that xebec and joyboy were D's as well

Reactions: Like 1


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## Gledania (Mar 17, 2022)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> >WG sends CP0 to Wano for years
> >b-but they're totally afraid of the old relic Ryuuma


Who is > mihawk 

Don't forget

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## Shiba D. Inu (Mar 17, 2022)

Gledinius said:


> Who is > mihawk
> 
> Don't forget


Yeah killing a PH dragon makes you yonkou+ lvl, i forgot

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## A Optimistic (Mar 17, 2022)

MrPopo said:


> Are you forgetting that xebec and joyboy were D's as well



that’s not law though 

my point is there’s bottom barrel Ds

do you deny this?


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## MrPopo (Mar 17, 2022)

A Optimistic said:


> that’s not law though
> 
> my point is there’s bottom barrel Ds
> 
> do you deny this?


Law took down a Yonkou and you think he's a bottom barrel D  ?

Reactions: Funny 1


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## A Optimistic (Mar 17, 2022)

MrPopo said:


> Law took down a Yonkou and you think he's a bottom barrel D  ?



law/Kidd/bombs took down a Yonko * 

he’s strong but he’ll never be stronger than ryumaboy. Kinda sad that even with a 5 billion hax fruit, he still can’t surpass a normal swordsman

Reactions: Agree 2 | Optimistic 1


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## MrPopo (Mar 17, 2022)

A Optimistic said:


> law/Kidd/bombs took down a Yonko *
> 
> he’s strong but he’ll never be stronger than ryumaboy. Kinda sad that even with a 5 billion hax fruit, he still can’t surpass a normal swordsman


He already has  

Also that 5 billion dollar fruit is tied to imu

Reactions: Winner 1


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## A Optimistic (Mar 17, 2022)

MrPopo said:


> He already has
> 
> Also that 5 billion dollar fruit is tied to imu



no

he can give Zoro extreme diff but he’ll never win

that’s the highest praise I can give law. Take it or leave it

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 2


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## Beast (Mar 17, 2022)

Law can be Oden 

Travelled with the future PK already and might just be lucky enough to go through Kidds ship for one day.

Reactions: Funny 2 | Tier Specialist 2


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## Gledania (Mar 17, 2022)

Beast said:


> Law can be Oden
> 
> Travelled with the future PK already and might just be *lucky* enough to go through Kidds ship for one day.



How ? He's fine with the SH.

Him leaving them to go with Kidd would be like Oden leaving Roger to travel with Big Mom. 

How is that being lucky anyhow ?

Reactions: Funny 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## MrPopo (Mar 17, 2022)

A Optimistic said:


> no
> 
> he can give Zoro extreme diff but he’ll never win
> 
> that’s the highest praise I can give law. Take it or leave it


No deal


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## TrolonoaZoro (Mar 17, 2022)

Wait, are people forgetting that if it wasn't for Kaido's intervention half dead Zoro would've defeated big mom
*Spoiler*: __

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## Incognitos (Mar 17, 2022)

TrolonoaZoro said:


> Wait, are people forgetting that if it wasn't for Kaido's intervention half dead Zoro would've defeated big mom
> *Spoiler*: __


You mean after kid shot her up in the air and kid trapped Zeus?


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## TrolonoaZoro (Mar 17, 2022)

Incognitos said:


> You mean after kid shot her up in the air and kid trapped Zeus?


and Killer neutralized Napoleon
And Law rocked her off oni island

yes.

Half Dead Zoro takes a fight with big mom all the way down to a ez/mid diff.


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## Incognitos (Mar 17, 2022)

TrolonoaZoro said:


> and Killer neutralized Napoleon
> And Law rocked her off oni island
> 
> yes.
> ...


More like zoro's incompetence ruined the no diff combo. Notice how kaidou went for the weak link.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## A Optimistic (Mar 17, 2022)

MrPopo said:


> No deal



not surprised you said that 

you somehow think law defeated big mom without Kidd and bombs


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## TrolonoaZoro (Mar 17, 2022)

Incognitos said:


> More like zoro's incompetence ruined the no diff combo. Notice how kaidou went for the weak link.



Right what should take from the rooftop is that the yonkous thought Zoro was the weak link   

half dead Zoro, Kid, Law, Killer>>>Law Kid Bombs

Reactions: Like 1


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## MrPopo (Mar 17, 2022)

A Optimistic said:


> not surprised you said that
> 
> you somehow think law defeated big mom without Kidd and bombs


When did I stay that


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## A Optimistic (Mar 17, 2022)

MrPopo said:


> Law took down a Yonkou and you think he's a bottom barrel D  ?



right here

Reactions: Funny 2


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## MrPopo (Mar 17, 2022)

A Optimistic said:


> right here


Jeff was meant to delete that

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Incognitos (Mar 17, 2022)

TrolonoaZoro said:


> Right what should take from the rooftop is that the yonkous thought Zoro was the weak link
> 
> half dead Zoro, Kid, Law, Killer>>>Law Kid Bombs


Remind me who got defeated again? Oh right big mom who fought law and kid and bombs. Not kaidou who fought the 9 scabards, Zoro, Luffy (twice), and Yamato. 

So (and I'm not sure how good your math is, if you have below middle school level math let me know and I'll try to help you out). 

9 scabards + Luffy + Luffy + Zoro + Yamato < kaidou 

And 

Law + kid + 2 bombs > big mom 

And big mom = kaidou, but I'll give you a fair and honest argument, something you could probably learn to do. So let's say big mom is slightly weaker than kaidou and then just change our equations to 

9 scabards + Luffy + Luffy + Zoro + Yamato = kaidou 

Law + kid + 2 bombs = big mom

These statements are true. So Luffy is likely weaker than kid and law right? Or those bombs are stronger than the 9 scabards plus Zoro plus Yamato and then some. 

Continue arguing in bad faith but your a welcome addition to my ignore list.

Reactions: Like 2 | Funny 1


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## TrolonoaZoro (Mar 17, 2022)

Incognitos said:


> Remind me who got defeated again? Oh right big mom who fought law and kid and bombs. Not kaidou who fought the 9 scabards, Zoro, Luffy (twice), and Yamato.
> 
> So (and I'm not sure how good your math is, if you have below middle school level math let me know and I'll try to help you out).
> 
> ...


I'm team bombs, dude. You're not disagreeing with me.

Big mom ate every attack Kid and Law threw at her. and they had to rely on removing her from the island.

The issue is that we're not talking Zoro vs Bombs, but Zoro vs the supernovas.

So taking the bomb accomplishment and adding them to the law/kid tag team even though the bombs did their work independently is facetious. 

Whoever place the bombs at the basement is missing credits.

So we're still stuck with Big mom getting removed from Oni island with ez diff when half dead Zoro and killer are part of the tag team but it being extreme when they're removed. 

There is literally nothing we can do about it but accept it.

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1 | Dislike 1


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## Beast (Mar 18, 2022)

TrolonoaZoro said:


> Big mom ate every attack Kid and Law threw at her. and they had to rely on removing her from the island.
> 
> So we're still stuck with Big mom getting removed from Oni island with ez diff when half dead Zoro and killer are part of the tag team but it being extreme when they're removed.




Yeah, im gonna have to add a new rule to not let anyone with a Zoro username post on this thread anymore.


The clear bias and dishonesty is frightening and frankly just idiotic.


This guy is telling us BM ate their attacks but not only did she lose years of her life to recover, pulling souls of others to power up her homies and fix bones that snapped like a twig… yeah, she really ate their attacks as she stayed laid out on the ground that whole last chapter. She really did eat those attacks.


And even more lies…. When did Killer or Zoro ever see Bms bigger version or is you continued dishonesty to just sell your fanfic that Zoro did anything against BM?


Troll definitely is the right name.

Reactions: Winner 2 | GODA 1


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## TrolonoaZoro (Mar 18, 2022)

Fair, it doesn't count if big mom uses her abilities in battle.  


And lets simultaneously lower the bar to "big mom getting damaged" all the way down from "big mom got defeated" 

Like it makes sense to hype a Yonkou getting damaged in a tag team against Zoro.
When Pre-AdCOC/Power up Zoro had her reaction like this


And she wasn't even targeted.

Reactions: Winner 1 | Neutral 1


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## Firo (Mar 18, 2022)

TrolonoaZoro said:


> Fair, it doesn't count if big mom uses her abilities in battle.
> 
> 
> And lets simultaneously lower the bar to "big mom getting damaged" all the way down from "big mom got defeated"
> ...


Cherry-picking. The Legion special.

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 3


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## TrolonoaZoro (Mar 18, 2022)

How is it cherry picking to go to the penultimate attack that Law/Kid hit her with to show the obvious and the element that the entire fight revolves around? They were having great difficulties damaging her and the only time it was considerable damage was when they bypass her durability? 

Cherry-picking simply doesn't work that way.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Firo (Mar 18, 2022)

TrolonoaZoro said:


> How is it cherry picking to go to the penultimate attack that Law/Kid hit her with to show the obvious and the element that the entire fight revolves around? They were having great difficulties damaging her and the only time it was considerable damage was when they bypass her durability?
> 
> Cherry-picking simply doesn't work that way.


“They only damaged her because”
Literally cherry picking.
The fuck.
And they both damaged her before the awakening. Which her homies commented on.


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## Great Potato (Mar 18, 2022)

TrolonoaZoro said:


> How is it cherry picking to go to the penultimate attack that Law/Kid hit her with to show the obvious and the element that the entire fight revolves around? They were having great difficulties damaging her and the only time it was considerable damage was when they bypass her durability?
> 
> Cherry-picking simply doesn't work that way.



Kid doesn't have durability bypassing techniques, he was powering through her defense with raw power.

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 1 | Optimistic 1


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## TrolonoaZoro (Mar 18, 2022)

Great Potato said:


> Kid doesn't have durability bypassing techniques, he was powering through her defense with raw power.


Yeah, but that's irrelevant. No?
I think I said "*considerable *damage"

Considerable damage panels
Law's kroom tech (3 times)
Kid's corno dio (snap wrist) but only right after she got kroom in that exact same arm.

I don't think you can read it without acknowledging Law's kroom. Specially because Big Mom went up to explicitly acknowledge Law's internally damaging technique because it internally damages her as she was fixing her wrist.


If you're proposing that biggest obstacle for Kid and Law vs Big Mom wasn't their incapacity to damage her, you're straight up not understanding the fight.

There is a reason why plot conventionally causes her to eat 2 gigantic explosion at the end of the fight and why Oda literally has her coming back against every attack created by Law and Kid.

It's not subtle nor up for debate.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Beast (Mar 19, 2022)

TrolonoaZoro said:


> Yeah, but that's irrelevant. No?
> I think I said "*considerable *damage"


For one, you didn’t make no mention about what and how much damage and two, I very much doubt you ‘think’. 



This guy really tryna use downplay as if it actually works talking about BM ‘wrist’ as if he even knows the difference  BMs wrists, ankles, joints and the fat on her back. 

Get the fuck out here, run troll, run back into the dark.

Reactions: Funny 3 | Dislike 1


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## Sieves (Mar 21, 2022)

Beast said:


> Looool, now they’re best hope is that Zoro
> Is the reincarnation of some next guy
> 
> And where are the Law fans coming from?
> ...


to this day Law is still more impressive than kid and Zoro this arc so far



A Optimistic said:


> he’s strong but he’ll never be stronger than *ryumaboy*. Kinda sad that even with a 5 billion hax fruit, he still can’t surpass a normal swordsman


Law loses to Ryuma maybe but not Zoro.


Great Potato said:


> Kid doesn't have durability bypassing techniques, he was powering through her defense with raw power.


no, Law was weakening her internally so Kid could ram her externally.


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## Bill1001 (Mar 21, 2022)

Im sorry but this is a joke 
POwer level wise it go like that 
1_ strongest
Zoro

2_ can possblie beat Zoro

M. D gerg, Baugy D. Clown, God U 

3_put up a fight but loss
Ruffy, king, kaido 

4_ well get one shot
Every character with dark skin 

5_ sanji
Sanji

Reactions: Like 1 | Informative 1


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## Beast (Mar 21, 2022)

Sieves said:


> to this day Law is still more impressive than kid and Zoro this arc so far
> 
> 
> no, Law was weakening her internally so Kid could ram her externally.


laws had the most ass pull out of the three I agree. 


Loool, great fanfic. If only Oda could add that to OP, you could have been right.


And of course @xmysticgohanx agreeing with his fellow racist Green haired supporter.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Friendly 1


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## Great Potato (Mar 21, 2022)

Sieves said:


> no, Law was weakening her internally so Kid could ram her externally.



So you're saying Law relied on attacking her internally with durability bypassing techniques while Kid just powered straight through with external attacks. Glad we are on the same page.

Reactions: Like 1


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## sanji fanboy (Mar 22, 2022)

This bet is moot.
No side would admit their character is weaker at the end of day.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## MrPopo (May 29, 2022)

So who won

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2 | Funny 3


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## Sieves (May 29, 2022)

MrPopo said:


> So who won


Law as usual

Reactions: Agree 4 | Funny 4


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## Sieves (May 29, 2022)

Great Potato said:


> So you're saying Law relied on attacking her internally with durability bypassing techniques while Kid just powered straight through with external attacks. Glad we are on the same page.


Everyone in this arc relied on internal damage except Kid. Scabbards used ryou, Luffy used aCoC, Zoro used Asura + Enma, Killer used sound waves, Law used KROOM. Kid has no ryou, no aCoC, no internal attacks. So called "External physical attacks" alone don't work at this level. That's the point of using the internal ones. Kid is unable to damage Big Mom without Law's help. The same can not be said vice versa.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## T.D.A (May 29, 2022)

MrPopo said:


> So who won



Zoro   

If this was a Law vs Zoro thread it would be a different story though

Reactions: Winner 1 | Disagree 2


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## Kagutsutchi (May 29, 2022)

Kidd won if you're not biased. Law has better visuals, but Kid is intended as his equal

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 3 | Winner 1 | Optimistic 2 | Lewd 1


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## Ssjloke (May 29, 2022)

_Kidd assigns Enma through Zolo's skull_

Reactions: Like 2 | Winner 1 | Optimistic 3


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## MrAnalogies (May 29, 2022)

Sieves said:


> Kid is unable to damage her without Law's help. The same can not be said vice versa.


Law did internal damage but could not do external damage without Kids help. Laws whole fighting style is based around doing indirect damage and functions primarily as tactical/support fighter. That version of law was never going to severely damage, let alone beat, BM in a million years without Kid.

A fresh Kid using his best attacks from the beginning still might have broken her arm with the bull or damaged her with the laser. He did get hurt because of Hawkins and was fighting for a while on the rooftop. Kidd was able to match her physically 1v1 a few times. The problem was she kept healing herself and has an absurd devil fruit.

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 2 | Optimistic 1


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## Ren. (May 29, 2022)

MrPopo said:


> So who won


Law


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## Great Potato (May 29, 2022)

Sieves said:


> Everyone in this arc relied on internal damage except Kid. Scabbards used ryou, Luffy used aCoC, Zoro used Asura + Enma, Killer used sound waves, Law used KROOM. Kid has no ryou, no aCoC, no internal attacks. So called "External physical attacks" alone don't work at this level. That's the point of using the internal ones. Kid is unable to damage Big Mom without Law's help. The same can not be said vice versa.



We saw Kid was perfectly capable of dishing out damage, and I take what happened in the manga over your two-piece rendition of events.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Winner 4


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## A Optimistic (May 29, 2022)

Zoro > Kidd = Law.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2 | Funny 1 | Tier Specialist 6


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## Louis-954 (May 29, 2022)

Great Potato said:


> We saw Kid was perfectly capable of dishing out damage, and I take what happened in the manga over your two-piece rendition of events.


This.

Regardless of *how* Kid damaged Kaido and Big Mom, the* fact* remains that* he damaged them* and that he's been* portrayed* as Law's peer to a such degree where whether he is stronger or weaker than Law is negligible. That's really all that matters here.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Winner 3 | Informative 1


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## Shiba D. Inu (May 29, 2022)

Law > Zoro = Kidd

Reactions: Like 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (May 29, 2022)

Great Potato said:


> We saw Kid was perfectly capable of dishing out  *little damage,* and I take what happened in the manga over your two-piece rendition of events.



Thats better

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 1


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## Great Potato (May 29, 2022)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Thats better



You're remarkably clever


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## xmysticgohanx (May 29, 2022)

Zoro > Law > Kid

Reactions: Agree 2 | Funny 2


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## ShadoLord (May 29, 2022)

AdvCoC ftw

Reactions: Agree 1


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## truedetectiveseason2intro (May 29, 2022)

It’s pretty obviously Kidd but zoro is close enough that his many die hards can spin plenty of shit

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Beast (May 29, 2022)

It’s time to use the law hype to our advantage and take this Dub home!


It’s still fuck @Firo and @Shiba D. Inu

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Ren. (May 30, 2022)

A Optimistic said:


> Zoro >  Law.




Also Kid Assigns swords to Zoro's ass checks ... End of the fight.

Even BM's raw strength could  not counter that.

Kid per default now counters tool users bar Mihawk and even that is not 100%.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Ren. (May 30, 2022)

Beast said:


> It’s time to use the law hype to our advantage and take this Dub home!
> 
> 
> It’s still fuck @Firo and @Shiba D. Inu


Yeah ...

I mean Oda made a hole for Law as big as Big Monkey Nikka D.

So yeah.

Also Kid and Law defeated BM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> solo defeating King.


As I said before Law and Kid above SHP bar Luffy.

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## Unresponsive (May 30, 2022)

Ren. said:


> Also Kid Assigns swords to Zoro's ass checks ... End of the fight.
> 
> Even BM's raw strength could  not counter that.
> 
> Kid per default now counters tool users bar Mihawk and even that is not 100%.


I just realized that kid is the counter for zoro cause he literally can make it where zoro is trapped meanwhile all of zoros split and cut zoros head. Gg kid kidnaps zoro and than sells him to the government


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## Gledania (May 30, 2022)

Zoro = Law > Kid = Sanji

Reactions: Funny 1 | Tier Specialist 4


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## Gledania (May 30, 2022)

Ren. said:


> Also Kid and Law defeated BM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> solo defeating King.


King defeated BM,  and her entire crew tho  

King > BM

Reactions: Tier Specialist 2


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## Ren. (May 30, 2022)

Gledania said:


> King defeated BM,  and her entire crew tho
> 
> King > BM


Yes and foxy can defeat Mihawk.

Reactions: Creative 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Ren. (May 30, 2022)

TraxCantBeStopped said:


> I just realized that kid is the counter for zoro cause he literally can make it where zoro is trapped meanwhile all of zoros split and cut zoros head. Gg kid kidnaps zoro and than sells him to the government


I already said before that he was. 

But now assign after BM, is not even a discussion. 

Sword users are fucked vs Kid's awakening.


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## Vivo Diez (May 30, 2022)

Always bet on Kid. Can't believe people actually believed ZKK

Reactions: Winner 2 | Optimistic 3


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## T.D.A (May 30, 2022)

Kidd was hard carried by Law, and his ultimate attack wasn't that impressive compared to other characters.

Meanwhile Zoro unlocked the advanced version of Conqueror's Haki, hyped by Kaido himself and something Luffy also relied on.

His attack power is greater than Kid's.

Reactions: Like 4 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Vivo Diez (May 30, 2022)

T.D.A said:


> Meanwhile Zoro unlocked the advanced version of Conqueror's Haki


Don't really see how that inherently puts him over Kidd. Law doesnt have it, and *by your own premise* he "hard carried" Kidd when fighting BM, which would mean he did more than the lions share to beat a yonko, which would put him way over Zoro's accomplishments, despite his advanced haki knowledge

Reactions: Like 2 | Funny 1 | Winner 1


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## Cyas (May 30, 2022)

Zoro got several impressive feats in Wano but it's hard to argue with a 2 VS. 1 victory against a Yonko. Kid is more impressive imo if neither character gets new feats until the end of Wano.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Vivo Diez (May 30, 2022)

Zoro's slash leaving a scar on Kaido was impressive, but Kidd and Law subsequently did much more impactful damage against BM. Facts are facts, move on.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## TheWiggian (May 30, 2022)

Vivo Diez said:


> Zoro's slash leaving a scar on Kaido was impressive, but Kidd and Law subsequently did much more impactful damage against BM. Facts are facts, move on.



Big Mom =//= Kaido, the latter never had any bones broken by Luffy despite Luffy's moves being far more powerful than anything in Kid's and Law's arsenal. The only thing broken was his horn which was symbolic in the end.

Facts are facts, Law and Kid > Luffy, move on.


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## T.D.A (May 30, 2022)

Vivo Diez said:


> Don't really see how that inherently puts him over Kidd. Law doesnt have it, and *by your own premise* he "hard carried" Kidd when fighting BM, which would mean he did more than the lions share to beat a yonko, which would put him way over Zoro's accomplishments, despite his advanced haki knowledge



? I'm talking about Kid not Law.

Law's awakening and DF powers >>>>> Kid

If Kid showed us anything comparable to Law then there would be a better argument for Kid > Zoro.


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## Shiba D. Inu (May 30, 2022)

T.D.A said:


> ? I'm talking about Kid not Law.
> 
> Law's awakening and DF powers >>>>> Kid
> 
> If Kid showed us anything comparable to Law then there would be a better argument for Kid > Zoro.


do you have Law = Zoro or Law > Zoro right now?


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## T.D.A (May 30, 2022)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> do you have Law = Zoro or Law > Zoro right now?



Law = Zoro for now

Reactions: Funny 3


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## Shiba D. Inu (May 30, 2022)

T.D.A said:


> Law = Zoro for now


still cant say it huh

Reactions: Funny 2


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## truedetectiveseason2intro (May 30, 2022)

T.D.A said:


> ? I'm talking about Kid not Law.
> 
> Law's awakening and DF powers >>>>> Kid
> 
> If Kid showed us anything comparable to Law then there would be a better argument for Kid > Zoro.


He’s saying that if law did basically all the work against a yonko like you claim then law shits on zoro

Reactions: Like 1


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## T.D.A (May 30, 2022)

truedetectiveseason2intro said:


> He’s saying that if law did basically all the work against a yonko like you claim then law shits on zoro



He didn't do all the work, carrying Kid i.e being the most important factor and the most clutch, like in the NBA, the superstar might drop a triple double, but still needs the role player at times to hit that spot up 3.

funnily enough when it was just Zoro and Law vs a Yonko, it was Zoro doing the heavy lifting.


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## truedetectiveseason2intro (May 30, 2022)

T.D.A said:


> He didn't do all the work, carrying Kid i.e being the most important factor and the most clutch, like in the NBA, the superstar might drop a triple double, but still needs the role player at times to hit that spot up 3.
> 
> funnily enough when it was just Zoro and Law vs a Yonko, it was Zoro doing the heavy lifting.


Zoro didn’t do any heavy lifting against a holding back yonko. He did mostly superficial damage.


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## Sieves (May 30, 2022)

MrAnalogies said:


> Law did internal damage but could not do external damage without Kids help. Laws whole fighting style is based around doing indirect damage and functions primarily as tactical/support fighter. That version of law was never going to severely damage, let alone beat, BM in a million years without Kid.
> 
> A fresh Kid using his best attacks from the beginning still might have broken her arm with the bull or damaged her with the laser. He did get hurt because of Hawkins and was fighting for a while on the rooftop. Kidd was able to match her physically 1v1 a few times. The problem was she kept healing herself and has an absurd devil fruit.


The whole point of the buildup to ryuo is physical damage is not sufficient. I didn’t write the manga, take it up with Oda.

Seriously? Kid isn’t breaking anything with that mechanical bull by itself. Why do people actually think that does damage. If Kid hit Kaido with that Kaido would just laugh it off, like Kaido did Punk vise, in fact he probably did the first time they fought.

Big Mom highlights Kid’s tankiness as his strength “you’re still standing Kid??”

Big Mom highlights Law’s attacks as his strength “Trafalgars techniques are dangerous”.


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## Sieves (May 30, 2022)

Great Potato said:


> We saw Kid was perfectly capable of dishing out damage, and I take what happened in the manga over your two-piece rendition of events.


Agree to disagree. Anime and manga support my claims just fine. Kid does minor damage alone.

“It needs more mass”


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## xmysticgohanx (May 30, 2022)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> do you have Law = Zoro or Law > Zoro right now?


What do you have for Zoro vs kid


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## ShadoLord (May 30, 2022)

Vivo Diez said:


> Don't really see how that inherently puts him over Kidd. Law doesnt have it, and *by your own premise* he "hard carried" Kidd when fighting BM, which would mean he did more than the lions share to beat a yonko, which would put him way over Zoro's accomplishments, despite his advanced haki knowledge


5 billion beli devil fruit is showing its true value

Reactions: Creative 1


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## Great Potato (May 30, 2022)

Sieves said:


> I didn’t write the manga, take it up with Oda.



Oda is the one who drew Big Mom reacting like this to attacks you're trying to claim do no damage to her.



Perhaps you're the one who should be taking it up with Oda because he drew all of those panels.



Sieves said:


> Seriously? Kid isn’t breaking anything with that mechanical bull by itself. *Why do people actually think that does damage.*



Reasons people think the attack did damage

1. Big Mom who was standing upright challenging Kid ends up laid out on the floor for several pages following the attack, with her eyes whited out and coughing blood

2. Big Mom's arm gets broken from the attack (we can clearly see it wasn't broken prior as she even attempts to use that arm to block the hit)

3. Big Mom after just healing herself panics and desperately tries to avoid getting hit with that attack again when Kid attempts it once more.

Only the most biased reading of that scene would try pretending that the attack didn't do damage.



Sieves said:


> Big Mom highlights Kid’s tankiness as his strength “you’re still standing Kid??”
> 
> Big Mom highlights Law’s attacks as his strength “Trafalgars techniques are dangerous”.



Big Mom highlighted both of their attack power

_"I haven't felt this much pain in decades, that's very impressive you two."_

There's dialogue of her crediting both of them equally for the damage they gave her, and her face is covered with blood that wasn't there prior to Kid's attack.



Sieves said:


> ?Agree to disagree. Anime and manga support my claims just fine. Kid does minor damage alone.
> 
> “It needs more mass”



The manga doesn't support your claims whatsoever, and I'm not sure why you think I care about anime filler.

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 1 | Winner 2


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## Unresponsive (May 30, 2022)

T.D.A said:


> Kidd was hard carried by Law, and his ultimate attack wasn't that impressive compared to other characters.
> 
> Meanwhile Zoro unlocked the advanced version of Conqueror's Haki, hyped by Kaido himself and something Luffy also relied on.
> 
> His attack power is greater than Kid's.


he literally wasn't carried by law at all. Really all he did was listen to law cause law said help me attack her to be fair if kid wanted he could've attacked her randomly but they wouldn't be in sync

Reactions: Like 1


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## Unresponsive (May 30, 2022)

Sieves said:


> Agree to disagree. Anime and manga support my claims just fine. Kid does minor damage alone.
> 
> “It needs more mass”


Kaido said this and this was literally kid not using his df awakening


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## Unresponsive (May 30, 2022)

T.D.A said:


> Law = Zoro for now


Law and kid by themselves kill zoro stop it there is no adv CoC to save zoro from the countless deadly gay combos they showed. Zoro vs king wasn't even that impressive not even close.


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## Unresponsive (May 30, 2022)

Sieves said:


> The whole point of the buildup to ryuo is physical damage is not sufficient. I didn’t write the manga, take it up with Oda.
> 
> Seriously? Kid isn’t breaking anything with that mechanical bull by itself. Why do people actually think that does damage. If Kid hit Kaido with that Kaido would just laugh it off, like Kaido did Punk vise, in fact he probably did the first time they fought.
> 
> ...


Firstly kaido shrugged it off because it was a pre df awakening moment. Law barely did damage to kaido. Literally law kid zoro luffy and killer. Both law and kid were helping them to chain combos.


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## JoJo (May 30, 2022)

BM > Sanji > Law = Jinbei > Kidd > Zoro

Reactions: Funny 1 | Informative 1 | Creative 1


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## Unresponsive (May 30, 2022)

Sieves said:


> The whole point of the buildup to ryuo is physical damage is not sufficient. I didn’t write the manga, take it up with Oda.
> 
> Seriously? Kid isn’t breaking anything with that mechanical bull by itself. Why do people actually think that does damage. If Kid hit Kaido with that Kaido would just laugh it off, like Kaido did Punk vise, in fact he probably did the first time they fought.
> 
> ...


And the buildup of ryou was to show that you can apply the same amount of damage just through an opponent. It can also be used for range and defense


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## Unresponsive (May 30, 2022)

JoJo said:


> BM > Sanji > Law = Jinbei > Kidd > Zoro


Another totally making sense scale ill bring another

Helmpopo>kaido>Gol d Roger > Whitebeard> Fisher TIger


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (May 30, 2022)

I would put Sanji over Kidd to be honest and you guys know how much i hate post timeskip Sanji. i just dont see Kidd beating Sanji no way in a million years is kidds giant bull or laser cannon hitting Sanji he dodges that shit with ease. 

Should go without saying that Zoro>>>Sanji

Reactions: Funny 3


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## Unresponsive (May 30, 2022)

JoJo said:


> BM > Sanji > Law = Jinbei > Kidd > Zoro


BM>Law=Kid>jinbei>sanji=zoro. I put sanji and zoro equal because even if zoro has adv CoC that still doesn't make him as busted as what sanji literally did to queen. Sanjis faster smarter has more durability regeneration is also more versatile than theres raid suit and him without raid suit. But than theres zoro with enma. Zoro with better battle iq easily find out kings weakness by observing, haki


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## Unresponsive (May 30, 2022)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> I would put Sanji over Kidd to be honest and you guys know how much i hate post timeskip Sanji. i just dont see Kidd beating Sanji no way in a million years is kidds giant bull or laser cannon hitting Sanji he dodges that shit with ease.
> 
> Should go without saying that Zoro>>>Sanji


You do know kid can literally force sanji to the point where hes unable to move and is stuck by using magnetic forces he did this with BM who safe to say weighs more than sanji. Kid>>Sanji and zoro any day

Reactions: Funny 1


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## JoJo (May 30, 2022)

TraxCantBeStopped said:


> BM>Law=Kid>jinbei>sanji=zoro. I put sanji and zoro equal because even if zoro has adv CoC that still doesn't make him as busted as what sanji literally did to queen. Sanjis faster smarter has more durability regeneration is also more versatile than theres raid suit and him without raid suit. But than theres zoro with enma. Zoro with better battle iq easily find out kings weakness by observing, haki


I'm trolling with the sanji inclusion tbh 

i'm doubting sanji is above any important supernova, it would betray the narrative imo 

/no way jinbei is above sanji or zoro either, if he was, he'd be fighting a stronger opponent. Same reason why zoro =/= sanji. Zoro was on the roof top with luffy for a very good reason. Zoro fought King and not queen for a very good reason. Zoro has CoC, not sanji (at least as far as it's shown). So on and so forth

also as far as the thread premise goes 

who the fuck knows 

two awakening DF users beat Big Mom, Zoro mastered Enma and gained new abilities and by word of Kaido's mouth, we can't decisively say that just having awakening is better than haki since he seems to think Haki always trumps it. A man would has no DF probably spends extra time on haki as well, etc.  He even has the AdvCoC applications as well 

I guess this battle, imo, depends on how long kidd can manage his awakening and how he chooses to use it vs zoro. Can he temporarly disarm him by giving inverse polarity to his swords that he's forced to fight without Santoryu? Maybe, but depends on if he can beat him in that time or do enough damage against an Itoryu Zoro that when he gets his swords back Kidd, even if tired, can match him 

Honestly, SN powerscaling is fucked up

but for what it's worth, Zoro fought King and Luffy fought Kaido and two Novas beat big mom. I think it's safe to say, that ultimately, Oda is trying to tell us that Kidd and Law are stronger than him.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (May 30, 2022)

TraxCantBeStopped said:


> You do know kid can literally force sanji to the point where hes unable to move and is stuck by using magnetic forces he did this with BM who safe to say weighs more than sanji. Kid>>Sanji and zoro any day



That shit doesnt even last 10 seconds

Reactions: Funny 1


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## JoJo (May 30, 2022)

Kaido > BM > Luffy > Law = Kidd > Zoro

Reactions: Like 1


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## MartyMcFly1 (May 30, 2022)

JoJo said:


> I'm trolling with the sanji inclusion tbh
> 
> i'm doubting sanji is above any important supernova, it would betray the narrative imo
> 
> ...


I disagree with this only because Kidd and Law didn’t get what I consider to be the top tier, Yonkou level power up and Zoro did. We don’t know exactly how Zoro would hold up against a top tier with ACoC, however we do know it made him capable of permanently scarring Kaido while gravely injured.

If I had to bet, I would say for that reason that Zoro is much closer to ‘splitting the sky’ and clashing on a Yonkou level than Law or Kidd. I would also say that narratively, Zoro was always going to be above all of the Supernova, that’s why Oda has gone out of his way to have Zoro either impress them or defeat them, while having them mostly not view any of Luffy’s more impressive feats.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Shiba D. Inu (May 30, 2022)

MartyMcFly1 said:


> I disagree with this only because Kidd and Law didn’t get what I consider to be the top tier, Yonkou level power up and Zoro did. We don’t know exactly how Zoro would hold up against a top tier with ACoC, however we do know it made him capable of permanently scarring Kaido while gravely injured.
> 
> If I had to bet, I would say for that reason that Zoro is much closer to ‘splitting the sky’ and clashing on a Yonkou level than Law or Kidd.


awakening is above yonkou level power-up

its Nika god-tier (well, at least Laws is)


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## MartyMcFly1 (May 30, 2022)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> awakening is above yonkou level power-up
> 
> its Nika god-tier (well, at least Laws is)


I just don’t think so. Kaido doesn’t even think so and he went up against Luffy before and after he awakened.


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## JoJo (May 31, 2022)

MartyMcFly1 said:


> I disagree with this only because Kidd and Law didn’t get what I consider to be the top tier, Yonkou level power up and Zoro did. We don’t know exactly how Zoro would hold up against a top tier with ACoC, however we do know it made him capable of permanently scarring Kaido while gravely injured.
> 
> If I had to bet, I would say for that reason that Zoro is much closer to ‘splitting the sky’ and clashing on a Yonkou level than Law or Kidd.


Law and Kidd learn AdvCoC in a fight with Zoro. Zoro is their personal King fight they would need. 

But realistically, I don’t know. I guess this is another thing to go based on the manga and to think about the characters. Essentially, even if AdvCoC is your ticket into being a top tier, should it not exist on a spectrum? Much like Awakening itself. We have Luffy's awakening, went from matching Kaido to being the trump card and we have Doffy awakening, who loses to G4 Luffy solo (based on Oda's words). Looking at everything black and white probably isn't the answer, especially since power levels are at peak chaos right now. You also have to remember that DF users will likely focus on their DF itself since they basically have it 24/7. It makes sense that whether Kidd or Law end up having CoC (we know kidd has it and Law is a D.) then it's a matter of them probably not knowing about it and focusing on making their awakening as powerful as possible. It's by proxy, their ticket to fighting a yonkou since I doubt they'd ever attempt something that crazy if they didn't feel like they had a capable way of fighting them. 

This is in contrast to Zoro, he has no DF and haki is how he's going to survive in the new world. He also was trained by Mihawk, a likely extreme Haki expert since Yoru is a black blade and he's a WSS, so on and so forth. Anyways, if we're talking about a characters ticket into fighting a top tier, for Kidd and Law it's their awakening and for Zoro it's his AdvCoC. They both, narrative wise, serve same purpose and are both displayed in a manner where its the usage of this ability to over come their top tier opponent, but not outright surpass them without mastery of it. 

Currently, out of the rookies, no one but Luffy is a top tier since he has AdvCoC, awakening, and fought kaido solo, and has plot armor, etc. 

So yeah, all things considered, if we're going to assume it makes the most sense of Zoro to achieve AdvCoC given his disposition as someone who only has Haki to fight + his high grade swords and he unlocks it in a battle where it's the most important, then I don't think that's enough to say that it's better than awakening outright. Both Awakenings we know are extremely high in terms of stamina consumption and literally how both of them combined were able to take down a top tier. 

I think the splitting the sky things happens with a clash of CoC, but I cant remember. 



Shiba D. Inu said:


> awakening is above yonkou level power-up
> 
> its Nika god-tier (well, at least Laws is)


Awakening is on a range of strength, from Doffy to Luffy. There is no hard and fast rule about whether someone unlocks it means they are definitely a top tier or yonkou tier. It's dependent on their character's position in the manga, how close we are to the end, their opponent,  their portrayal, etc. 

AdvCoC will be seen less often because CoC itself is more rare than a DF and AdvCoC goes through another level of low expression in characters because it's an advanced version of CoC of itself


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (May 31, 2022)

Haki>devil fruits kaidou made that clear.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Shiba D. Inu (May 31, 2022)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Haki>devil fruits kaidou made that clear.


Kaidou is dumb and he got one-shotted

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (May 31, 2022)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> Kaidou is dumb and he got *one-shotted*


I know you just playing around but chill  kaidou has taken like 100 named attacks this arc and another 500 unnamed


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## Shiba D. Inu (May 31, 2022)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> I know you just playing around but chill  kaidou has taken like 100 named attacks this arc and another 500 unnamed


all irrelevant compared to Bajrang Gun

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Vivo Diez (May 31, 2022)

T.D.A said:


> ? I'm talking about Kid not Law.
> 
> Law's awakening and DF powers >>>>> Kid
> 
> If Kid showed us anything comparable to Law then there would be a better argument for Kid > Zoro.


I was pointing out how your argument is faulty and used Law as an example. Just because Zoro has an advanced form of haki, that in itself isn't an argument for putting him above Kidd, as characters without it have had better feats within the very same arc. You have to be a bit more clever and try to argue how that specifically allows Zoro to achieve greater feats than Kidd has been able to show with his DF and skillset.


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## Vivo Diez (May 31, 2022)

Also, narratively Law and Kid are portrayed as peers, you're in a rude awakening if you think there's a huge difference between the two. Of course these are some of the same people that say Zoro is tiers above Sanji and get a rude awakening every other arc


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## Unresponsive (May 31, 2022)

JoJo said:


> I'm trolling with the sanji inclusion tbh
> 
> i'm doubting sanji is above any important supernova, it would betray the narrative imo
> 
> ...


I made a type I met jinbei last


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## Mariko (May 31, 2022)

Kid does have the better df to counter Zoro.
Too bad he doesn't know what haki is though...

Reactions: Funny 1 | Winner 1


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## Unresponsive (May 31, 2022)

Mariko said:


> Kid does have the better df to counter Zoro.
> Too bad he doesn't know what haki is though...


What is haki going to do  when your opponent can keep you trapped and immobilized with a attack called assign.Even big mom couldn't escape and she has better haki than zoro


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## Mariko (May 31, 2022)

TraxCantBeStopped said:


> What is haki going to do  when your opponent can keep you trapped and immobilized with a attack called assign.Even big mom couldn't escape and she has better haki than zoro



Did BM even used haki?

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Unresponsive (May 31, 2022)

Mariko said:


> Did BM even used haki?


yes she did...


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## Beast (May 31, 2022)

… the end is coming  


Once Zoro is able to drop a yonko on their ass with an attack… then… maybe then can we talk about him being on the same level as Kidd or Law… I know, you look back through all those great feats of Zoros… and not once is he able to make a yonko drop off their feet due to the force behind his attack, you know the guy that has the strongest attacks or at least stronger then Kidds attacks.  


Maybe Zoro still gets up… you guys do have till the end of the arc


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## T.D.A (May 31, 2022)

Vivo Diez said:


> I was pointing out how your argument is faulty and used Law as an example. Just because Zoro has an advanced form of haki, that in itself isn't an argument for putting him above Kidd, as characters without it have had better feats within the very same arc. You have to be a bit more clever and try to argue how that specifically allows Zoro to achieve greater feats than Kidd has been able to show with his DF and skillset.



Kid hasn’t had better feats in total. Zoro stopped a 2 Yonko combo attack, wounded Kaido and helped get rid of Big Mom on the rooftop. He also then went and 1v1 YC1 King. *Plus* he got a far better powerup. What is inflicting more pain to Big Mom, King of Hell Dragon sword style with advanced Conqueror’s or Kid’s laser beam?

Reactions: Winner 1


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## T.D.A (May 31, 2022)

Mariko said:


> Kid does have the better df to counter Zoro.
> Too bad he doesn't know what haki is though...



Oda himself told us in the SBS that having a DF advantage doesn’t mean character strength nor guarantees the outcome of a fight


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## Ludi (May 31, 2022)

So who is going to be the unbiased judge for the results?


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## Mariko (May 31, 2022)

T.D.A said:


> Oda himself told us in the SBS that having a DF advantage doesn’t mean character strength nor guarantees the outcome of a fight



Yes, basically what I said...


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## T.D.A (May 31, 2022)

Mariko said:


> Yes, basically what I said...



Mariko = Oda

Reactions: Funny 1


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## GreenEggsAHam (May 31, 2022)

Kidd contributed to beating a yonko 

While Zoro still has a to face another commander next arc(shiryu)


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## Great Potato (May 31, 2022)

Mariko said:


> Did BM even used haki?



Big Mom is always using her haki

Reactions: Winner 2


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## T.D.A (May 31, 2022)

Ludi said:


> So who is going to be the unbiased judge for the results?



I doubt anyone here can claim that Kid > Zoro is beyond any doubt and isn't debatable at all hence Beast lost his bet.

Reactions: Like 1


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## *uzumaki-naruto* (May 31, 2022)

Kidd used Assign and would of got killed if not for law teleporting him hahahah. Remember people.....


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## MartyMcFly1 (May 31, 2022)

At the end of the day this comes down to where you think Kidd and Law are headed as characters in the progression of the story as well as how much of the story you think is left.

Luffy and Zoro are heading towards World’s Strongest titles and are definitely going to be facing stronger and stronger opponents from now on.

Kidd and Law have done about what I would have expected from them with regards to the story, but I don’t think they’ll be featured as prominently as they were in Wano going forward.

Reactions: Like 2


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## *uzumaki-naruto* (May 31, 2022)

Chapter 1030(Last page). Kidd only survived his awakening because *LAW* used *shambles. *So when people use this ability as an end all.......it does make me giggle. Oh well, remember what you will

Reactions: Like 1


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## Shiba D. Inu (May 31, 2022)

MartyMcFly1 said:


> At the end of the day this comes down to where you think Kidd and Law are headed as characters in the progression of the story as well as how much of the story you think is left.
> 
> Luffy and Zoro are heading towards World’s Strongest titles and are definitely going to be facing stronger and stronger opponents from now on.
> 
> Kidd and Law have done about what I would have expected from them with regards to the story, but I don’t think they’ll be featured as prominently as they were in Wano going forward.


Law is/will be Luffys WB


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## ShadoLord (May 31, 2022)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> Law is/will be Luffys WB


Only if he accepts Zoro’s haki lesson.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## *uzumaki-naruto* (May 31, 2022)

Also people who think Kidd broke BIG MOM'S ARM are delusional. It was laws shockwave that fractured the bones and when she used her arm to block it broke. Without Laws move.....it would never of broken (technically law could have similar results solo while kidd wouldn't). his laser looks cool though


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## MartyMcFly1 (May 31, 2022)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> Law is/will be Luffys WB


I think Kidd is more likely, but I don’t disagree that they both will be Luffy’s rivals for most of his career in piracy. That being said, I don’t think we’ll ever see them have one of those Roger/Whitebeard style friendly battles between crews, at least not in the main story.

The way I see it, Luffy has more serious antagonists/rivals that he’ll be facing going forward.


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## TrolonoaZoro (May 31, 2022)

Can law or kidd even do significant damage to big mom without 2 nukes or durability bypassing fruits?
Because we know Zoro can, even before his top tier power up Adcoc he had BIG MOM and KAIDO shooked.

The discussion is dead. "The captain supernovas" were capped this arc.
The SH supernovas were explicitly made superior.

Reactions: Like 4 | Winner 1 | Optimistic 1


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## GreenEggsAHam (May 31, 2022)

TrolonoaZoro said:


> Because we know Zoro can, even before his top tier power up Adcoc he had BIG MOM and KAIDO shooked.


His strongest attack gave  kaido a non life threatening scar. So them being shocked don’t mean much

Reactions: Funny 1


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## TrolonoaZoro (May 31, 2022)

GreenEggsAHam said:


> His strongest attack gave  kaido a non life threatening scar. So them being shocked don’t mean much


Lmao, we're comparing Zoro to Kid and Law not Roger. Pre power up Zoro significantly damaged Kaido without caveats.


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## Vinsmoke31 (May 31, 2022)

Current kidd is stronger, next arc zoro will be stronger.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Vinsmoke31 (May 31, 2022)

TrolonoaZoro said:


> Can law or kidd even do significant damage big mom without 2 nukes or durability bypassing fruits?
> Because we know Zoro can, even before his top tier power up Adcoc he had BIG MOM and KAIDO shooked.
> 
> The discussion is dead. "The captain supernovas" were capped this arc.
> The SH supernovas were explicitly made superior.


Can zoro hurt big mom without a sword? Because asking if law can hurt big mom without a durability bypassing fruit is stupid.

Reactions: Like 1


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## TrolonoaZoro (May 31, 2022)

Vinsmoke31 said:


> Can zoro hurt big mom without a sword? Because asking if law can hurt big mom without a durability bypassing fruit is stupid.


Probably not, but the point still stands. 
Law was explicitly shown to have issue fighting yonkous on 1 v 1 scenarios and needed distractions every time. 

So he can punch outside his weight with fruit's awakening. 
Zoro is merely punching in his weight. Stopping attacks that comparable to the one who defeated Kaido. And having Adcoc. 

There is way too many element clearly showing Zoro as superior. It's not even debatable. The things Zoro did are more impressive and have no caveats.

Reactions: Like 1


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## MartyMcFly1 (May 31, 2022)

Vinsmoke31 said:


> Current kidd is stronger, next arc zoro will be stronger.


In my eyes the problem with this sort of logic is we never really got a chance to see where current Zoro (King of Hell 3 Dragon Style) stacks up against anyone aside from King. 

We do know that King brushed off a couple of attacks that harmed Kaido, but beyond that nobody will be vindicated until next arc. Also, Law and Kidd were very surprised at Zoro’s durability prior to his ACoC upgrade, which we know can greatly boost durability.

That’s enough for me to put Zoro above Kidd and Law.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Vinsmoke31 (May 31, 2022)

MartyMcFly1 said:


> In my eyes the problem with this sort of logic is we never really got a chance to see where current Zoro (King of Hell 3 Dragon Style) stacks up against anyone aside from King.
> 
> We do know that King brushed off a couple of attacks that harmed Kaido, but beyond that nobody will be vindicated until next arc. Also, Law and Kidd were very surprised at Zoro’s durability prior to his ACoC upgrade, which we know can greatly boost durability.
> 
> That’s enough for me to put Zoro above Kidd and Law.


Portrayal law and kidd defeated a yonkou, zoro defeated a YC1. Also we know kings standing hes a YC1, which gives us a pretty great indicator on where zoro is (high YC1 currently) its actually harder to gauge law and kidd, because they won in a 2 on 1 with bombs for help against a much stronger opponent.


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## MartyMcFly1 (May 31, 2022)

Vinsmoke31 said:


> Portrayal law and kidd defeated a yonkou, zoro defeated a YC1. Also we know kings standing hes a YC1, which gives us a pretty great indicator on where zoro is (high YC1 currently) its actually harder to gauge law and kidd, because they won in a 2 on 1 with bombs for help against a much stronger opponent.


He defeated a YC1 quickly once he got his powerup, a feat I would say is at least in the ballpark of a Yonkou. In the case of Law and Kidd they defeated Big Mom, but it took them working together and combining all of their strength and she still wasn’t exactly defeated.


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## Vinsmoke31 (May 31, 2022)

MartyMcFly1 said:


> He defeated a YC1 quickly once he got his powerup, a feat I would say is at least in the ballpark of a Yonkou. In the case of Law and Kidd they defeated Big Mom, but it took them working together and combining all of their strength and she still wasn’t exactly defeated.


He defeated an exhausted YC1 with brand new powerup attacks, thats not anywhere close to yonkou feat. A yonkou level feat would be taking on multiple commander level people at once and comming out on top.

Kidd and law had to work together, because big mom was far(3 tiers) stronger than king.


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## TrolonoaZoro (May 31, 2022)

In the bright side, we know who's the World Strongest Excavator.
WSE.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Captain Quincy (May 31, 2022)

I’m comfortable with saying Kidd beats Zoro now, yeah.


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## MartyMcFly1 (May 31, 2022)

Vinsmoke31 said:


> He defeated an exhausted YC1 with brand new powerup attacks, thats not anywhere close to yonkou feat. A yonkou level feat would be taking on multiple commander level people at once and comming out on top.
> 
> Kidd and law had to work together, because big mom was far(3 tiers) stronger than king.


King was exhausted? I don’t think so. I’d actually say just the opposite. I’m not denying that Big mom is stronger than King, I’m saying that once Zoro was able to Use ACoC, he defeated King in a manner similar to Kaido defeating Luffy at the beginning of the arc


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## Ren. (May 31, 2022)

MartyMcFly1 said:


> He defeated a YC1 quickly once he got his powerup, a feat I would say is at least in the ballpark of a Yonkou. In the case of Law and Kidd they defeated Big Mom, but it took them working together and combining all of their strength and she still wasn’t exactly defeated.


Kid awakening practically nullifid swords.

Even BM could not user her sword, no amount of raw STG or COC will make Zoro escape that.

Law ... I don't even need to tell you what Law can do.

Zoro is inferior to those 2 while also a bad match up vs Kid.

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## Sablés (May 31, 2022)

Going with Zoro. Overall, there's nothing Kidd did that I couldn't see Zoro doing as well in terms of dealing damage. Prominent argument against are:



> YC1


Zoro wiped the floor with King once ACoC was unlocked



> Yonko


Kidd and Law would have been eviscerated in a proper 1 vs 1 and were using each other, along with the circumstances in that fight to land hits.


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## trance (May 31, 2022)

went with zoro just cause

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## Ren. (May 31, 2022)

Either way Zoro fans will never admit so this thread was pointless from the start.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Winner 1


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## Vinsmoke31 (May 31, 2022)

MartyMcFly1 said:


> King was exhausted? I don’t think so. I’d actually say just the opposite. I’m not denying that Big mom is stronger than King, I’m saying that once Zoro was able to Use ACoC, he defeated King in a manner similar to Kaido defeating Luffy at the beginning of the arc


He was, he fought marco and then zoro.

Kaido: face tanks everything a YC1 can throw at him in his weakest form, casually 1 shots him with a base attack and walks away.

Zoro: Powers up after being near death, uses his strongest attack shown to date to defeat a YC1 he was struggling immensely with, immediatly passes out due to exhaustion after he lands.

Legion members: kaido and zoro are similar power!!!

Get outta here with your nonsense.

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## Sablés (May 31, 2022)

Vinsmoke31 said:


> He was, he fought marco and then zoro.


Poor Big Mom. She must've been exhausted before even getting to the RT5 


Vinsmoke31 said:


> uses his strongest attack shown to date to defeat a YC1


Proof?


Vinsmoke31 said:


> Immediatly passes out due to exhaustion after he lands.


Drugs.


Vinsmoke31 said:


> Legion


Obsessed.


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## Mylesime (May 31, 2022)

Kid might legit be the character the most downplayed of the entire serie.
And i'm a priest of the Wokesmock church which tells a lot....

The Dude spent the whole raid fighting Yonkos, with everything that it implies (endurance, durability, AP..... was even impeded during big periods) .....
Yet you would swear he's a scrub based on some recollections of the events (i'm barely exagerating).
Impressive stuff.




It's close between Zoro and Kid. Zoro not being fully aware of his powers when he used it against Kaido.
But Kid did not go all out on the Rooftop either  with his awakening.
Anyone claiming that Kid has not the  better feats is quite frankly lying.
Specially when  taking into account the fact that he did not receive any medicine or healing during the raid.

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## Vinsmoke31 (May 31, 2022)

Sablés said:


> Poor Big Mom. She must've been exhausted before even getting to the RT5
> 
> Proof?
> 
> ...


Get outta here with your drug nonsense.

1. The whole fight zoro was complaining about enma sapping his energy, and saying he'll need to go all out to finish it.

2. Chapters later the drugs kicked in indicated by the grim reaper, if you missed it go back and read it.

3. Even if you ignore these 2 points(which im sure you will), you think the drugs were on a timer and kicked in exactly the second zoro landed to safety? Thats a pretty crazy coincidence you got goin there.


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## *uzumaki-naruto* (May 31, 2022)

Mylesime said:


> Kid might legit be the character the most downplayed of the entire serie.
> And i'm a priest of the Wokesmock church which tells a lot....
> 
> The Dude spent the whole raid fighting Yonkos, with everything that it implies (endurance, durability, AP..... was even impeded during big periods) .....
> ...


This isn't true..........

You like his design thats all. Killer imo is a far more interesting fighter and also Assign is a close quarter move and against a swordsman thats suicide.

People say he will be a yonko at the end of this arc and that he's luffy's rival. Sometimes people are delusional about the people they love hahaha
.........................................

If I was Oda I would of made Kidd a marksman that would of been interesting balance between Luffy the brawler, Law the specialist and Kidd the sniper (with magnectic influence). Like he can still have his arms but the can break apart and reform in the air will being launched and can bend around corners.....mix that with CoO you have an interesting fighter who is unique in the series. But meh


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## Sablés (May 31, 2022)

Vinsmoke31 said:


> Get outta here with your drug nonsense.






Vinsmoke31 said:


> 3. Even if you ignore these 2 points(which im sure you will), you think the drugs were on a timer and kicked in exactly the second zoro landed to safety? Thats a pretty crazy coincidence you got goin there.


Yep. As it's shortly after Zoro won his fight that Chopper notes that he hopes Zoro already...won his fight. The drugs wear off, like every drug in the world. Before that, there was no indication that Zoro's stamina had depleted and there is absolutely no way you could prove that.

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## Vinsmoke31 (May 31, 2022)

Sablés said:


> Yep. As it's shortly after Zoro won his fight that Chopper notes that he hopes Zoro already...won his fight. The drugs wear off, like every drug in the world. Before that, there was no indication that Zoro's stamina had depleted and there is absolutely no way you could prove that.


I acknowledge what the drugs do, but you didnt refute any of my points at all


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## Sablés (May 31, 2022)

Vinsmoke31 said:


> you didnt refute any of my points at all





Sablés said:


> Yep. As it's shortly after Zoro won his fight that Chopper notes that he hopes Zoro already...won his fight. The drugs wear off, like every drug in the world. Before that, there was no indication that Zoro's stamina had depleted and there is absolutely no way you could prove that.


You can read.


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## Vinsmoke31 (May 31, 2022)

Sablés said:


> You can read.


Yes and you didnt refute them. All you said was chopper was worried about zoro due to the drug side effects, which kicked in later indicated by the grim reaper.

I already proved it, read my previous post again please.

Its like you legion members ignore, just completely block out anything that disproves your headcannon.


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## Mylesime (May 31, 2022)

*uzumaki-naruto* said:


> This isn't true..........
> 
> You like his design thats all. Killer imo is a far more interesting fighter



Your post is quite ironic...... symbolizes everything i just said.
Kid would destroy Killer, *his underling *. Let's stop playing.
It was fun while it lasted, then we realized what they were really able to do going all out with Kid's awakening.
I don't like Kid particularly, find Killer more interesting to be honest.
Fatcs are still facts, he was impressive during this raid and his feats match Law's something my 7 years old niece could see.
Luffy is the only youngster with clearly superior feats.





*uzumaki-naruto* said:


> and also Assign is a close quarter move and against a swordsman thats suicide.



Kid survived against Big Mom her advanced CoC ; Napoleon,  Zeus, Hera, and Prometheus.
Feats that prove that he could deal with most swordmen...... if not all of them (meaning he could hold his own).
It worked against a Yonko...... self explanatory.






*uzumaki-naruto* said:


> People say he will be a yonko at the end of this arc and that he's luffy's rival. Sometimes people are delusional about the people they love hahaha



Nobody talked about Luffy, he's their Daddy.
He fought A Yonko 1 vs 1 and beat him, contrary to Law or Kid.
We're talking about Zoro here tough.....
And clearly if wank is an issue regarding this topic......it doesn't involve Kid.

You've got people playing dumb, acting like Law and Kid being near equals is not something obvious, literally denying facts claiming he did not injure the Yonkos despite clear evidences on panel.
It's one thing to argue on Zoro's behalf ( again they're on the same tier, and Zoro reached true awakening later on against King), however acting like Zoro's feats are superior, or that he's on another level after witnessing this raid is just..... laughable, there is no other way to put it i'm sorry.
Based on feats, there is nothing to dispute.

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## xmysticgohanx (May 31, 2022)

kid would be dead from trying to block hakai

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Sablés (May 31, 2022)

Vinsmoke31 said:


> All you said was chopper was worried about zoro due to the drug side effects,


No, that's not what I said. So I suppose you can't read after all.


> As it's shortly after Zoro won his fight that Chopper notes that he hopes Zoro already...won his fight.


My specific statement is that Chopper hoped Zoro already won, which is the story telling you that it's the time for the drug's effects to start kicking in. What do we see in the literal next page? Zoro facing the reaper. Before this, there is no evidence that Zoro's stamina depleted.
And you have zero counter beyond "it's convenient" as if the entire deal with that drug isn't a massive plot convenience. It's almost like the writing is...


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## Mylesime (May 31, 2022)

xmysticgohanx said:


> kid would be dead from trying to block hakai



Zoro would be dead too, without Law's teleportation and the minks drug.
No one would have survived on his own against the combined attacks/combo of two Yonkos.

Let's try to be fair, Zoro was not alone either, just like Kid was not alone against the Yonkos.....
Another proof of double standard.... Same thing done with Law.
Kid was instrumental against Big Mom, without him Law could not have landed most of his attacks.
That's the principle in a 2 vs 1, #Teamwork.
Something obvious.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Chip Skylark (May 31, 2022)

Why does no one factor in Zoro’s limited stamina with Enma & AdvCoC


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## Great Potato (May 31, 2022)

TrolonoaZoro said:


> Can law or kidd even do significant damage to big mom without durability bypassing fruits?





TrolonoaZoro said:


> Lmao, we're comparing Zoro to Kid and Law not Roger. Pre power up Zoro significantly damaged Kaido without caveats.



Law and Kid's fruits are abilities that they take with them wherever they go, and they would bring those abilities with them into a fight against Zoro. The only caveat they have is that Kid is more limited if there's a lack of metal in the environment to draw from.

I guess feel free to take a victory lap that Zoro is more impressive than those two if you disregard their DF's that they built their fighting style around. I take it you also consider sanji more impressive than Zoro because he injured a Calamity without the caveat of needing a weapon?

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## T.D.A (May 31, 2022)

Chip Skylark said:


> Why does no one factor in Zoro’s limited stamina with Enma & AdvCoC



Kid has the same problem with awakening.

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## Captain Quincy (May 31, 2022)

TrolonoaZoro said:


> Can law or kidd even do significant damage to big mom without 2 nukes or durability bypassing fruits?
> Because we know Zoro can, even before his top tier power up Adcoc he had BIG MOM and KAIDO shooked.
> 
> The discussion is dead. "The captain supernovas" were capped this arc.
> The SH supernovas were explicitly made superior.


Kidd doesn't have a durability bypassing fruit.

People put Law above Kidd in strength despite their attacks blatantly shown doing the same to Big Mom.

If anything Kidd should be higher in raw AP because his attack on the OUTSIDE did the same as Law's attack on the INSIDE.


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## Sablés (May 31, 2022)

Captain Quincy said:


> People put Law above Kidd in strength despite their attacks blatantly shown doing the same to Big Mom.


People put Law above Kidd in strength because his feats were visually better, his fruit is far better, and it actually gets called out. Both Law and Kidd hit BM one after the other. Whose attack did BM bother to mention was troublesome?

Hint: Not Kidd's.


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## MrAnalogies (May 31, 2022)

Sieves said:


> The whole point of the buildup to ryuo is physical damage is not sufficient. I didn’t write the manga, take it up with Oda.
> 
> Seriously? Kid isn’t breaking anything with that mechanical bull by itself. Why do people actually think that does damage. If Kid hit Kaido with that Kaido would just laugh it off, like Kaido did Punk vise, in fact he probably did the first time they fought.


This is head cannon Two Piece nonsense. It's your opinion that physical damage can't hurt yonko and it's a wrong opinion.

Kid broke her arms with the mechnical bull. He hurt both BM and Kaido with several purely physical attacks in the rooftop and when he fought BM alone, slamming them in their backs and making them bleed or shouting. I don't need to take anything up with Oda, the manga makes this all very clear. Kidd damaged BM without using ryou or advanced conqueror's. The momentum of magnetism pulling his opponents forward against thick solid matter is enough, especially if they are also being shocked internally by Law.

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## Chip Skylark (May 31, 2022)

T.D.A said:


> Kid has the same problem with awakening.


Not as badly. He used his awakening extensively against Big Mom.


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## Captain Quincy (May 31, 2022)

Sablés said:


> People put Law above Kidd in strength because his feats were visually better


Puncture Will made BM's eyes white out and spit up blood then she retaliated almost right after




Damned Punk made BM's eyes white out and spit up blood then she retaliated almost right after




BM was legit scared of Kidd's Punk Corna and was desperate to avoid it EXACTLY like she was with Law's Shock Wille








Sablés said:


> his fruit is far better


No proof of this for AP



Sablés said:


> and it actually gets called out. Both Law and Kidd hit BM one after the other. Whose attack did BM bother to mention was troublesome?
> Hint: Not Kidd's.


We were shown the bones broken by Kidd and we needed to be told the bones broken by Law since we couldn't see them



Again, the story blatantly told us they're equal.






Law being more flashy isn't proof he's stronger  (not saying you specifically are claiming this btw)

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## T.D.A (May 31, 2022)

Chip Skylark said:


> Not as badly. He used his awakening extensively against Big Mom.



Zoro can regulate his haki, it's not as if he can only do one attack and that's it. And against the Lunarian zoan durability monster that was King he had no choice but to let it all out, but Kid wouldn't pose the same problem.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## T.D.A (May 31, 2022)

Captain Quincy said:


> People put Law above Kidd in strength despite their attacks blatantly shown doing the same to Big Mom.



No it wasn't. Law was clearly shown to be doing more damage vs Big Mom.

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## Captain Quincy (May 31, 2022)

T.D.A said:


> No it wasn't. Law was clearly shown to be doing more damage vs Big Mom.





Captain Quincy said:


> Puncture Will made BM's eyes white out and spit up blood then she retaliated almost right after
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Sablés (May 31, 2022)

Captain Quincy said:


> Damned Punk made BM's eyes white out and spit up blood then she retaliated almost right after


There's a pretty obvious flaw with this logic. That's you presuming that damage isn't compounding on Linlin. 


Captain Quincy said:


> We were shown the bones broken by Kidd and we needed to be told the bones broken by Law since we couldn't see them


Or, Law's Kroom to that very arm ended up doing serious damage and weakening it for Kidd to break. Again, same principle as the above. There was no need to mention Law specifically, if he wasn't the problem.  What you've suggested is supposition.

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## MrAnalogies (May 31, 2022)

Mylesime said:


> The Dude spent the whole raid fighting Yonkos, with everything that it implies (endurance, durability, AP..... was even impeded during good periods) .....
> Yet you would swear he's a scrub based on  some recollections of the events (i'm barely exagerating).
> Impressive stuff.


This is a good point. Kidd didn't spend a lot of time on fodder, he has been fighting Kaido/BM constantly with no breaks ever since the rooftop. He attacked Kaido first, then he teamed up with killer to fight BM, then he fought BM 1v1, then he teamed up with Law to fight BM, was heavily injured by Hawkins abilities, and then still continued to fight BM and helped Law defeat her.

He took several hits from both yonkos. An air slash from Kaido, Boro breath I think? A solid punch to the face from BM, lightning attacks, heavens slash from BM, etc.

His attacks haven't been that flashy, but if they were weak, neither yonko would take him seriously and would just shrug them off, but that didn't happen. We've seen both BM and Kaido ignore and not even bother dodging attacks that are too weak to phase them so obviously Kidd has decent AP.

Dude is an absolute stamina/durability monster and had basically no breaks. *The only one who fought longer than Kidd is Kaido himself and this is often overlooked*. Luffy had 3 breaks and 2 free power ups, Kidd got nothing except awakening.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Sablés (May 31, 2022)

Kidd was taking hits from BM better than Queen despite not having a Zoan fruit. He was also getting blindsided by Hawkins while _still_ taking BM's attacks. As far as durability/endurance goes, it shouldn't even be a question that he's better than Zoro, who was troubled King's attacks alone.  Kidd's constitution is wonky, tbh.


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## Mylesime (May 31, 2022)

MrAnalogies said:


> Dude is an absolute stamina/durability monster and had basically no breaks. *The only one who fought longer than Kidd is Kaido himself and this is often overlooked*. Luffy had 3 breaks and 2 free power ups, Kidd got nothing except awakening.



Clearly criminally downplayed.
Kid survived Big Mom's attacks while he was being stabbed in the chest by Hawkins, through the use of his devil fruit/curse.
The Mfcker still look relatively fine as we speak.
Kid is a monster.


He is inferior to Law in terms of AP  (the gap is not that big tough, just like Law also displayed great endurance during the Raid, his blunt attacks and his magnetization worked against the Yonkos, that's just a fact).

Haki has never been portrayed as absolute, Sandersonia and Marigold were overpowered by Luffy without any haki.
Queen's move broke several armement users bones and inner organs, that was literally Kid's strategy against Kaido.
He hurt them, specially Big Mom, that's indisputable:
Denying this is incredibly dishonest, there is no point lying she is literally admitting it herself after *Punk Clash":
"That's very impressive you TWO"





*

Every charcater has his strengths and relative weaknesses.
Kid is incredibly tough, tougher than Law.
Overall it's blatantly obvious that they're on par.

Reactions: Agree 4


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## TrolonoaZoro (May 31, 2022)

Great Potato said:


> Law and Kid's fruits are abilities that they take with them wherever they go, and they would bring those abilities with them into a fight against Zoro. The only caveat they have is that Kid is more limited if there's a lack of metal in the environment to draw from.
> 
> I guess feel free to take a victory lap that Zoro is more impressive than those two if you disregard their DF's that they built their fighting style around. I take it you also consider sanji more impressive than Zoro because he injured a Calamity without the caveat of needing a weapon?


Caveats were in relation to the premise that Kid and Law fought yonkous and Zoro a YC1 commander, therefor he's capped to YC1.
When Zoro fought vs Yonkous he did much better WHILE he didn't received a power up.
Law specially could only function with openings created by Kidd, and Kidd never did significant damage to Big Mom while he also doesn't have Adcoc. That's an issue of portrayal that can not be ignored. Caveats are relevant.

The victory lap is based around stopping Hakai, having a top tier power up in Adcoc, Damaging Kaido to the point of scarring with Ashura, and scaring both Big Mom and Kaido by simply charging ENMA PRE-ADCOC, with an Island Long air slash.

If you legit can point to any feat that compares or is objectively better from Law and Kid, I would like to hear it. Because I just don't see it.




Captain Quincy said:


> Kidd doesn't have a durability bypassing fruit.
> 
> People put Law above Kidd in strength despite their attacks blatantly shown doing the same to Big Mom.
> 
> If anything Kidd should be higher in raw AP because his attack on the OUTSIDE did the same as Law's attack on the INSIDE.


Law's durability bypassing damage was hype by big mom as dangerous. While the same can not be said for Kidd.
Kidd 100 percent has greater AP than Law. That's not even debatable.

Reactions: Like 1


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## T.D.A (May 31, 2022)

"Gotta watch out for Trafalgar Law's techniques" 

You think Kid's bull attack is as strong as Shock Wille?


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## Mylesime (May 31, 2022)

TrolonoaZoro said:


> When Zoro fought vs Yonkous he did much better WHILE he didn't received a power up.



That's not true tough.
He did use advanced conqueror against Kaido.
Don't disagree regarding your overall argument, but Zoro did use his power up to hurt Kaido.


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## MrAnalogies (May 31, 2022)

Sablés said:


> Kidd was taking hits from BM better than Queen despite not having a Zoan fruit. He was also getting blindsided by Hawkins while _still_ taking BM's attacks. As far as durability/endurance goes, it shouldn't even be a question that he's better than Zoro, who was troubled King's attacks alone.  Kidd's constitution is wonky, tbh.


BM knocked out Page 1, a tough ancient Zoan user, with 1 punch Page 1 took hits from raid suit Sanji and survived. BM also made Queen see stars with 1 hit and rag dolled him (both were in their dinosaur form). 



So it's extremely impressive Kidd just ate a punch to the face from BM before sending her flying with repel with a smirk on his face. I love this scene.




It sucks that the zoans ended up looking like chumps as a result in this arc, but that's Odas fault. I get that BM is a monster, but it probably wasn't a good writing decision to have them defeated so easily.

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## TrolonoaZoro (May 31, 2022)

Mylesime said:


> That's not true tough.
> He did use advanced conqueror against Kaido.
> Don't disagree regarding your overall argument, but Zoro did use his power up to hurt Kaido.


We can safely assume that Zoro going all out and using Adcoc unknowingly for a split second is less lethal than Zoro going all out and using AdCoc knowingly.

But that helps Zoro even more. Split sec Adcoc Zoro can do significant damage and scar Kaido? Kaido who's top 2 in durability and Top 3 fighter in the verse?

What would it do to Kidd, someone who didn't even fight an AdCoc yonkou, lmao.


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## MrAnalogies (May 31, 2022)

T.D.A said:


> "Gotta watch out for Trafalgar Law's techniques"
> 
> You think Kid's bull attack is as strong as Shock Wille?


1) Big Mom complimented both Law AND Kidd for their attacks before she powered up to bigger Mom. Mylesime just posted the scan. She said "well done you two".

2) Big Mom was terrified saying "I can't move" when magnetized and seeing the bull about to hit her again with wide eyes. Obviously the attack can damage her severely or she wouldn't react that way turning around to avoid getting hit by it.

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## Sablés (May 31, 2022)

MrAnalogies said:


> BM knocked out Page 1, a tough ancient Zoan user, with 1 punch Page 1 took hits from raid suit Sanji and survived. BM also made Queen see stars with 1 hit and rag dolled him (both were in their dinosaur form).
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Only one I can kind of excuse is P1 since that was ACoC and it was just hyped the previous chapter. If BM didn't floor P1 with that, you _know _that everyone would call her an even bigger joke than she's already made out to be.



Mylesime said:


> Kid is incredibly tough, tougher than Law.


Now see, this is where I have another problem with the idea that Kidd and Law are equals.

You would think that Kidd being a physical fighter would mean his stats and endurance should stand head and shoulders above, but Oda can't help himself with Law. Law took a deluge of haki-clad punches without being able to defend himself, and that still didn't put him down. Kid never got hit with THAT much.


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## Mylesime (May 31, 2022)

Sablés said:


> Now see, this is where I have another problem with the idea that Kidd and Law are equals.
> 
> You would think that Kidd being a physical fighter would mean his stats and endurance should stand head and shoulders above, but Oda can't help himself with Law. Law took a deluge of haki-clad punches without being able to defend himself, and that still didn't put him down. Kid never got hit with THAT much.




Disagree.
Kid was literally impeded during the first part of the fight against Big Mom.
He showcased better durability and endurance.
Law has great endurance too.
Goes with the territory i guess, they became top tiers.
He was being attacked on two fronts, the whole time Killer was fighting Hawkins:










But similarly Kid has great AP too.
Again no matter how many times it's denied, doesn't make it true.
Big Mom stated it herself, both Hurt her, she's literally praising their AP without any distinction, Kid is comparable on that front:






Clearly, Luffy is the only youngster that did undisputably better thant that.
Law and Kid are equals.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Chip Skylark (May 31, 2022)

T.D.A said:


> Zoro can regulate his haki, it's not as if he can only do one attack and that's it. And against the Lunarian zoan durability monster that was King he had no choice but to let it all out, but Kid wouldn't pose the same problem.


Not exactly. Enma forced Zoro to go all out, and that was the only circumstance under which he could use AdvCoC. He hasn’t demonstrated the ability to use AdvCoC while regulating his haki yet. Arguing that he could regulate his haki essentially takes away the offense that allows him a leg in this fight to begin with.

Reactions: Agree 2 | Winner 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Sablés (May 31, 2022)

Mylesime said:


> Disagree.
> Kid was literally impeded during the first part of the fight against Big Mom.
> He showcased better durability and endurance.
> Law has great endurance too.
> ...


Kidd got hit with most of this off-panel and over time.

I'm saying Law got railroaded by *haki* punches all at once. Kidd never took that much damage in that short amount of time before, and I'd go as far as to say it more than evens the odds. It's not like Law came in fresh either. He took a direct hit from Thunder Bagua before entering the fight, and that's more potent than just about all of BM's moves.



> Again no matter how many times it's denied, doesn't make it true.


You say she said "You Two" there to mean they were comparable. She later singles out Law.
Guess that means they weren't once their big moves started flying.


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## T.D.A (May 31, 2022)

Chip Skylark said:


> He hasn’t demonstrated the ability to use AdvCoC while regulating his haki yet.



Yes he did. He chose when to use advanced CoC and how much of it to use.

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 1


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## Great Potato (May 31, 2022)

Sablés said:


> Guess that means they weren't once their big moves started flying.



Law used the same move both times.


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## Mylesime (May 31, 2022)

Sablés said:


> Kidd got hit with most of this off-panel and over time.
> 
> I'm saying Law got railroaded by *haki* punches all at once. Kidd never took that much damage in that short amount of time before, and I'd go as far as to say it more than evens the odds. It's not like Law came in fresh either. He took a direct hit from Thunder Bagua before entering the fight, and that's more potent than just about all of BM's moves.



We disagree.
In this thread we were talking about how devastating devil fruit's attacks that bypass defenses were, highlighting Law's fruit.
Kid was taking countless blows from Hawkins, attack he could not defend against and that hit his organs, while taking homies combo attack from Big Mom.

He took stuffs like that:





You're also underselling Big Mom's combinations with her homies, Ulti took a thunder bagua from Yamato and a Maser Canon, damages were comparable, in fact Big Mom hurt her more ( Yamato was able to match Kaido thunder bagua to some extent in comparison).







An awful lot of assumptions that contradict the events, and feats shown.
A Thunder bagua is not significantly superior to all of BM's moves.
Law did not inflict significantly more damages on her either.

Law and Kid's stats are overall comparable, one might have the edge here and there, but the gap is reasonable.
Law has better AP or mobility, doesn't mean Kid is not great in those areas too since he can fly and hurt Yonkos.
Just like with their endurance, or durability. Kid is better there.


*Edit:
"Law hadn't used PW here. Just about"*

Kid had not used his finisher either, granted Law has better AP, doesn't mean Kid is lacking in that category.
He was already hurting Big Mom without going all out, just like Law.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Fel1x (May 31, 2022)

glad that @Beast was absolutely right

Reactions: Like 1 | Optimistic 1


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## Sablés (May 31, 2022)

Mylesime said:


> We disagree.
> In this thread we were talking about how devastating devil fruit's attacks that bypass defenses were, highlighting Law's fruit.
> Kid was taking countless blows from Hawkins, attack he could not defend against and that hit his organs, while taking homies combo attack from Big Mom.
> 
> He took stuffs like that:


So did Killer. BM's elemental moves are straight garbage. Absolutely abysmal track record. I think Maser Cannon was the only successful move to memory and that was  full-on combo against a F6.

I'm far more impressed by Kidd tanking a punch from her than no-selling her lightning.


Mylesime said:


> Ulti took a thunder bagua from Yamato and a Maser Canon, damages were comparable, in fact Big Mom hurt her more ( Yamato was able to match Kaido thunder bagua to some extent in comparison).


Thunder Bagua and Maser Canon are dissimilar attacks. One is piercing, the other is blunt force.
Yamato clashed against Kaido in Hybrid, and she lost.


Mylesime said:


> Law and Kid's stats are overall comparable




My point was that they reasonably *should not be. *Kidd stats (and brute force) are his specialty. Law should have no business matching him in that department, because his ability is way ahead of Kidd's. If Law's stats were notably inferior, things would balance out.



Great Potato said:


> Law used the same move both times.


Guess he put more juice into it the second time.


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## T.D.A (May 31, 2022)

Fel1x said:


> glad that @Beast was absolutely right



He wasn't though

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## xmysticgohanx (May 31, 2022)

Mylesime said:


> Zoro would be dead too, without Law's teleportation and the minks drug.
> No one would have survived on his own against the combined attacks/combo of two Yonkos.
> 
> Let's try to be fair, Zoro was not alone either, just like Kid was not alone against the Yonkos.....
> ...


he wouldnt have lasted even a split second. this is basically proven with that kid tells him right after law teleports zoro

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Mylesime (May 31, 2022)

Sablés said:


> So did Killer. BM's elemental moves are straight garbage. Absolutely abysmal track record. I think Maser Cannon was the only successful move to memory and that was full-on combo.
> 
> I'm far more impressed by Kidd tanking a punch from her than no-selling her lightning.



We disagree.




Sablés said:


> I'm really not.


You clearly are.




Sablés said:


> Thunder Bagua and Maser Canon are dissimilar attacks. One is piercing, the other is blunt force.
> Yamato clashed against Kaido in Hybrid.


So you're perfectly aware of the fact that various parameters explain an attack effectiveness and dangerosity dangerousness.
Which doesn't prevent you to basically claim that a Yonko that has access to Advanced CoC blows, used , and i quote "straight garbage moves" for the Lolz i guess.
The toughest fight she was involved in for decades, the most damages received in years; forcing her to use some of her lifespan at her advanced age....... yet you're claiming that she willingly used "garbage moves" in this decisive fight rather than her advanced CoC that allowed her to casually OS a tobbi ropo.
Does this make any sense to you? Seriously? Honestly?


Common sense and logic lead us to only one sensible conclusion.
Big Mom's elemental attacks are powerful.....

Nobody downplays ADVANCED CoC because Kinemon or the other scabbards survived against it facing Kaido.....




Sablés said:


> My point was that they reasonably *should not be. *Kidd stats (and brute force) are his specialty. Law should have no business matching him in that department, because his ability is way ahead of KIdd's.


Top tiers are gonna top tier.
At similar level, there is a floor regarding a character stats in some categories.
Law can't be a glass canon. If not, he can't compete.

It's simple.
You're simply downplaying Kid's AP.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Sablés (May 31, 2022)

Mylesime said:


> So you're perfectly aware of the fact that various parameters explain an attack effectiveness and dangerosity.


Uhuh. (Last isn't a word though)


Mylesime said:


> Which doesn't prevent you to basically claim that a Yonko that has access to Advanced CoC blows, use , and i quote "straight garbage moves" for the Lolz i guess.


Yes, they are garbage. This is just based on empirical evidence. Big Mom is a top-tier but her elemental moves hit way below her standing. The fact that the RT5 could tank Zeus is all the proof in the world unless you thought they were also top-tier. And before that,* a literal joke* was made out of Prometheus 


Mylesime said:


> Nobody downplays ADVANCED CoC because Kinemon or the other scabbards survived against it.....


They were beaten outright though. BM can barely injure.


Mylesime said:


> Law can't be a glass canon.


I didn't say he had to be a glass canon. I said he shouldn't be as durable as Kidd.


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## Mylesime (May 31, 2022)

Sablés said:


> Uhuh. (Last isn't a word though)


English is not my first language.
It happens, as long as you understood what i meant.
No big deal.
Dangerousness it is. We never stop learning.




Sablés said:


> Yes, they are garbage. This is just based on empirical evidence. Big Mom is a top-tier but her elemental moves hit way below her standing. The fact that the RT5 could tank Zeus is all the proof in the world unless you thought they were also top-tier. And before that,* a literal joke* was made out of Prometheus



Thunder Baguas, and advanced CoC attacks were tanked too..... doesn't lead you to claim it's garbage.






Kinemon survived that shit.




Again you're basically claiming that Big Mom used straight garbage moves, rather than advanced CoC attacks that  she has no difficulty launching in the most important of her fights in decades....







You're not stupid, you're perfectly aware of the fact that this doesn't make any sense.......





Sablés said:


> I didn't say he had to be a glass canon. I said he shouldn't be as durable as Kidd.


He is not.


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## JoJo (May 31, 2022)

Sablés said:


> Big Mom is a top-tier but her elemental moves hit way below her standing.


I really hated this. She has one of the most powerful devil fruits, in my opinion. It could have even been infinitely creative as well, but oda made her into such a joke.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Sablés (May 31, 2022)

Mylesime said:


> English is not my first language.
> It happens, as long as you understood what i meant.
> No big deal.
> Dangerousness it is.


My bad.


Mylesime said:


> Thunder Baguas, and advanced CoC attacks were tanked too..... doesn't lead you to claim it's garbage.


Not really.
Thunder Bagua one-shotted G4 Luffy. One of the most impressive feats of the timeskip. It's also ACoC
Law was momentarily downed by TB and breathing heavily when he was about to leave the area. Fact is, TB and ACoC have good feats. If they do get tanked later on, it's a feat for whoever manages it relative to the ones who couldn't (Law vs Pre-Udon G4 Luffy)

BM's elemental attacks don't have that foothold. Her punches do, which is why I think Kidd is impressive for tanking them.

Again, Prometheus was literally used for a comedy skit where Luffy, Kidd, and Law were playing Chicken. Can you imagine that shit with Kizaru or Aokiji?  



Mylesime said:


> He is not.


Feats suggest otherwise, but let's agree to disagree.


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## Fel1x (May 31, 2022)

Law=>Kidd(very close though)>Zoro

canon final statement


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## Mylesime (May 31, 2022)

Sablés said:


> Not really.
> Thunder Bagua one-shotted G4 Luffy. One of the most impressive feats of the timeskip. It's also ACoC
> Law was momentarily downed by TB and breathing heavily when he was about to leave the area. Fact is, TB and ACoC have good feats. If they do get tanked later on, it's a feat for whoever manages it relative to the ones who couldn't (Law vs Pre-Udon G4 Luffy)
> 
> BM's elemental attacks don't have that foothold. Her punches do, which is why I think Kidd is impressive for tanking them.



Kaido putting down Luffy that's it.
That's "thunder baguas" hype.


Ulti, Kinemon and the scabbards latter tanked "Thunder Baguas" and Advanced CoC hits they had no business tanking.
Plot dictate feats.

Big Mom was also able to momentarly knock down the RT5, except Luffy with Zeus.
She was herself affected many times by Zeus thunder, redirected by Nami.
The way Ulti dealt with both types of attacks is also telling imo.
BMs elemental attacks are fine.


Again, i think you're missing the point by over analyzing feats, rather than the plot and its implications.
We know that Big Mom can casually use advanced CoC, she destroyed Page 1 with it because some of his crewmates messed with folks that gave her some food......
She then had to fight Law and Kid in a battle to death (OP style), a battle in which she used her lifespan.


It's a yes or not question, really:
Do you think that Big Mom was nerfing herself in the biggest fight she was involved in in decades?
Does this really make any sense ?

Honestly?







Sablés said:


> Feats suggest otherwise, but let's agree to disagree.



We won't agree, since we don't evaluate BM's attacks similarly.


Her elemental attacks seem to work just fine here for me:





Let's agree to disagree.


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## Sablés (May 31, 2022)

JoJo said:


> I really hated this. She has one of the most powerful devil fruits, in my opinion. It could have even been infinitely creative as well, but oda made her into such a joke.


Hancock will pick up the slack.


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## Sablés (May 31, 2022)

Mylesime said:


> Kaido putting down Luffy that's it.


Yes, and that's very impressive.


Mylesime said:


> Ulti, Kinemon and the scabbards latter tanked "Thunder Baguas" and Advanced CoC hits they had no business tanking.


I mean...did they? I don't remember that and if they did, good for them. They're tougher than Luffy.


Mylesime said:


> Plot dictate feats.


You're not...wrong, I guess? It's just that if we go the plot route, there's no point to a discussion.


Mylesime said:


> It's a yes or not question, really:
> Do you think that Big Mom was nerfing herself in the biggest fight she was involved in in decades?
> Does this really make any sense ?
> Honestly?


I don't think she was. I just think the writing is bad.

I'm glad you mentioned ACoC too. Law had BM pinned down and fighting for her life, and she chose NOT TO USE IT. Apparently, regular haki made more sense to her?


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## Nello (May 31, 2022)

Holy shit 38 pages of Kidd vs Zoro

This is the most tier specialist thread i've ever seen

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Mylesime (May 31, 2022)

Sablés said:


> Yes, and that's very impressive.


It is.





Sablés said:


> I mean...did they? I don't remember that and if they did, good for them. They're tougher than Luffy.




Kinemon tougher than Gear 4 Luffy?



That's the issue i have, too often  feats are the end all be all when it is convenient......




Sablés said:


> You're not...wrong, I guess? It's just that if we go the plot route, there's no point to a discussion.



There is.
It simply implies that a Yonko elemental attacks, her favorite type of attack are not some weak sauce moves.
Seems sensible to me.






Sablés said:


> I don't think she was. I just think the writing is bad.
> 
> I'm glad you mentioned ACoC too. Law had BM pinned down and fighting for her life, and she chose NOT TO USE IT.



Writting could be improved.
However by simply admitting that a Yonko's attacks are powerful.
There is no issue for me.


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## MrAnalogies (May 31, 2022)

Sablés said:


> Again, Prometheus was literally used for a comedy skit where Luffy, Kidd, and Law were playing Chicken. Can you imagine that shit with Kizaru or Aokiji?


That was typical shonen stuff to demonstrate how the rooftop captains had reached a new level of power and belonged in the same breath as the yonko, while also demosntrating that they could still act like immature buffoons.

I think you're reading too much into it. Luffy dodged thunder bagua acting like a monkey and taunted kaido, only to literally be killed by the move later on. That scene isn't evidence BMs elemental attacks are "jokes".

BM and Kaido also used a long range elemental combo attack that broke 20 of Zoro's bones.


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## Captain Quincy (May 31, 2022)

Sablés said:


> There's a pretty obvious flaw with this logic. *That's you presuming that damage isn't compounding on Linlin*.
> Or, Law's Kroom to that very arm ended up doing serious damage and weakening it for Kidd to break. Again, same principle as the above.


You claimed Law's attacks were visually more impressive than Kidd's. That point is false.

Anyways, damage is obviously compounding. But I have no reason to believe Kidd's attacks are weaker by any significant amount when Oda went out of his way to illustrate them having the same effect on BM and the story made no emphasis on the bolded being the prominent reason Kidd was able to hurt her as much as Law.

Especially when after Shock Wille/Corna Dio BM called them both impressive, which wouldn't have been the case if we were only ever meant to think Law was.






Sablés said:


> There was no need to mention Law specifically [the second time]





Captain Quincy said:


> We were shown the bones broken by Kidd and we needed to be told the bones broken by Law since we couldn't see them





If Kidd was simply leeching off then that logic would have to apply to all the relevant instances as they were done in the same situation (Kidd landing his big attack after Law's), but it can't. And again, Kidd attacked the outside while Law attacked the inside.


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## truedetectiveseason2intro (May 31, 2022)

People here love to outthink the story. Law and Kidd were portrayed as equals throughout the fight. I’m not happy with it. Why give my boy coc? But it is what it is.


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## HaxHax (May 31, 2022)

Y'know I think snapping Big Mom's arm in half is slightly more impressive than putting a papercut on top of an old scar, but maybe that's just me.

Reactions: Like 1


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## T.D.A (May 31, 2022)

HaxHax said:


> Y'know I think snapping Big Mom's arm in half is slightly more impressive than putting a papercut on top of an old scar, but maybe that's just me.



Or wounding a Yonko with 20 to 30 broken bones...oh wait.


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## Chip Skylark (May 31, 2022)

T.D.A said:


> Yes he did. He chose when to use advanced CoC and how much of it to use.


The point of that dialogue was that he had to keep exuding it at that level. Not that he found a way to stabilize it… that’s why he was concerned with ending the fight quickly, because Enma would’ve killed him if the fight prolonged.

Reactions: Winner 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## T.D.A (May 31, 2022)

Chip Skylark said:


> The point of that dialogue was that he had to keep exuding it at that level. Not that he found a way to stabilize it… that’s why he was concerned with ending the fight quickly, because Enma would’ve killed him if the fight prolonged.



But he did stabilise his haki. In some panels he decides not to exude Conqueror's Haki, and in other panels he does, so he's clearly controlling when to release his Conqueror's at different points of the fight.

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## Sablés (May 31, 2022)

Mylesime said:


> It is.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


What scene are you even talking about, by the way? 


Mylesime said:


> There is.
> It simply implies that a Yonko elemental attacks, her favorite type of attack are not some weak sauce moves.
> Seems sensible to me.
> 
> ...





MrAnalogies said:


> That was typical shonen stuff to demonstrate how the rooftop captains had reached a new level of power and belonged in the same breath as the yonko, while also demosntrating that they could still act like immature buffoons.
> 
> I think you're reading too much into it. Luffy dodged thunder bagua acting like a monkey and taunted kaido, only to literally be killed by the move later on. That scene isn't evidence BMs elemental attacks are "jokes".


No, the scene isn't meant to be THE evidence that BM's elemental attacks suck, it is just one of many. indra did nothing. Hera did nothing. Prometheus, to my recollection, did nothing. At one point, you have to ask yourself WHY you are awarding these elemental attacks this much faith when they prove to be ineffective constantly. Is it because BM is a top-tier? So were Zoro and Killer also top-tiers when they tanked Indra and Hera? If it didn't work on them, why would it be expected to work on those far stronger than them. And if BM is a top-tier, how could this be proof of that power if she can't inconvenience her peers with it?

At this point, we're just cherry-picking what feats we want to keep and what feats to ignore. And that, in of itself, is acknowledgement that BM has some very poor showings. Which...doesn't even have to be a blow to her rank. Her physical strength is still top of the line and she retains those Maser combinations that were seemingly powerful.



Captain Quincy said:


> You claimed Law's attacks were visually more impressive than Kidd's. That point is false.


Kidd has something like the hole made by PW? Because that's what I meant by 'visually' more impressive.


Captain Quincy said:


> But I have no reason to believe Kidd's attacks are weaker


No reason to believe they are equal either.


Captain Quincy said:


> when Oda went out of his way to illustrate them having the same effect on BM


The 'same effect' is you telling me she makes terrified expressions and then counters. Seriously? She was making those same faces at Zoro and Luffy's feats against Kaido. That doesn't prove a thing. Furthermore, PW and Damned Punk, according to you, did damage, and then BM immediately retaliated. How does that prove parity between Law and Kidd? If anything, all it proves is that BM is too much of a tank for either of them to put down with their best techniques.


Captain Quincy said:


> Especially when after Shock Wille/Corna Dio BM called them both impressive, which wouldn't have been the case if we were only ever meant to think Law was.


You have your timeline wrong. BM getting her arm injured happened after the scan you linked. Where she, again, cites Law as the problem, and not Kidd.


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## HaxHax (May 31, 2022)

T.D.A said:


> Or wounding a Yonko with 20 to 30 broken bones...oh wait.


Imagine being so disingenuous that you would argue that the last ditch effort of a character in a shonen is not the peak of a their power.

Near death Luffy managed to conjure up bajrang gun, so he must be, like, able to 1shot kaido when fresh


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## T.D.A (May 31, 2022)

HaxHax said:


> Imagine being so disingenuous that you would argue that the last ditch effort of a character in a shonen is not the peak of a their power.



Imagine not seeing fallacy of hyping up broken bones but on the other hand actually, having broken bones has no impact at all.


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## KBD (May 31, 2022)

Euseless "Thanks Man" Midd ended up being flying six level

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (May 31, 2022)

Mylesime said:


> We disagree.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Only top tiers on wano are luffy, kaidou, and big mom


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## Captain Quincy (May 31, 2022)

Sablés said:


> Kidd has something like the hole made by PW? Because that's what I meant by 'visually' more impressive.


You quoted me talking about strength. If you're going to talk about something other than AP then why even bring it up as an argument?



Sablés said:


> No reason to believe they are equal either.








Sablés said:


> The 'same effect' is





Sablés said:


> How does that prove parity between Law and Kidd?


them both making BM's eyes white out and spit up blood then her retaliating almost right after, and also both breaking her bones. Don't know why you're deflecting to other characters, we've never seen anyone else do this to her.



Sablés said:


> Furthermore, PW and Damned Punk, according to you, did damage, and then BM immediately retaliated.





Sablés said:


> all it proves is that BM is too much of a tank to be put down with their final techniques


I didn't realize getting visibly hurt means you tanked an attack. Your definition must be different from mine.




Sablés said:


> Where she, again, cites Law as the problem, and not Kidd.





Captain Quincy said:


> We were shown the bones broken by Kidd and we needed to be told the bones broken by Law since we couldn't see them
> 
> 
> 
> Again, the story blatantly told us they're equal.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Mylesime (May 31, 2022)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Only top tiers on wano are luffy, kaidou, and big mom



Think Zoro,  Law and Kid are low top tiers.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (May 31, 2022)

Mylesime said:


> Think Zoro,  Law and Kid are low top tiers.



Top tier wouldent got slammed by another top tier.

Law can not give Luffy a high diff fight. G5 slams but lets be real here luffy doesn't need g5. g4 luffy is more then enough to beat law, zoro, and kidd they have no feats that would push Luffy to use G5 and if he does use G5 they get slammed 10 seconds after he uses it.

Now if you think giving g5 luffy a mid diff fight is good enough to be top tier then fair enough. But i would say that its pushing it to think law, zoro or kidd can give g5 luffy a mid fight(like really pushing it), and even if i thought they could give G5 luffy a mid diff fight thats still not good enough to be top tier imo you need to give luffy a high diff fight more like higher end of high diff.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 3


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## Mylesime (May 31, 2022)

Sablés said:


> No, the scene isn't meant to be THE evidence that BM's elemental attacks suck, it is just one of many. indra did nothing. Hera did nothing. Prometheus, to my recollection, did nothing. At one point, you have to ask yourself WHY you are awarding these elemental attacks this much faith when they prove to be ineffective constantly. Is it because BM is a top-tier? So were Zoro and Killer also top-tiers when they tanked Indra and Hera? If it didn't work on them, why would it be expected to work on those far stronger than them. And if BM is a top-tier, how could this be proof of that power if she can't inconvenience her peers with it?
> 
> At this point, we're just cherry-picking what feats we want to keep and what feats to ignore. And that, in of itself, is acknowledgement that BM has some very poor showings. Which...doesn't even have to be a blow to her rank. Her physical strength is still top of the line and she retains those Maser combinations that were seemingly powerful.





Anyway her Maser combination is elemental attack. It makes sense that strong characters endured well attacks based on 1 element.



Big picture, it makes no sense for Big Mom to rely on weak attacks when she has access to effective one according to you, such as advanced CoC.
It did not matter what she used, she would not put them down anyway.
Oda portraying her using those attacks in those circumstances means that it is powerful.





Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Top tier wouldent got slammed by another top tier.
> 
> Law can not give Luffy a high diff fight. G5 slams but lets be real here luffy doesn't need g5. g4 luffy is more then enough to beat law, zoro, and kidd they have no feats that would push Luffy to use G5 and if he does use G5 they get slammed 10 seconds after he uses it.
> 
> Now if you think giving g5 luffy a mid diff fight is good enough to be top tier then fair enough. But i would say that its pushing it to think law, zoro or kidd can give g5 luffy a mid fight(like really pushing it), and even if i thought they could give G5 luffy a mid diff fight thats still not good enough to be top tier imo you need to give luffy a high diff fight more like higher end of high diff.



I do think they could give him mid diff.
Luffy is not low diffing any of those 3 in this story. That's not the dynamic that was portrayed.
Big Mom is also one of the strongest top tiers, i don't think a character like Rayleigh would fare as well currently for example.
And Law and Kid did well. 

Luffy would win without gear 5 against any of them, but it would be very tough.
And we saw that even without Gear 5 Luffy could compete against the WSC, even tough he would have lost eventually.
If Luffy has to use Gear 5, it's not a low diff fight anymore imo.

Think that with awakening and advanced CoC, no one can casually stomp these 3 anymore. Fighting them would have consequences.
They're lacking in some areas, which is why they have no shot at victory against a bonafide top tier, but they have several top tier stats.
My ceiling is lower than yours admitedly. I understand that not being able to ultimately win against some top tiers disqualify them for you.


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## Beast (Jun 1, 2022)

T.D.A said:


> Kid hasn’t had better feats in total. Zoro stopped a 2 Yonko combo attack,


The attack never stopped but I’m glad, it was at the start of the post, so we didn’t have to waste time reading the rest.


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## T.D.A (Jun 1, 2022)

Beast said:


> The attack never stopped but I’m glad, it was at the start of the post, so we didn’t have to waste time reading the rest.



He blocked it so yes he did stop it for a brief moment.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Beast (Jun 1, 2022)

Sablés said:


> You say she said "You Two" there to mean they were comparable. She later singles out Law.
> Guess that means they weren't once their big moves started flying.





Great Potato said:


> Law used the same move both times.





Sablés said:


> Guess he put more juice into it the second time.


Looooooooool, imagine getting destroyed like this and still posting  

Some people got no self respect  



Loool, great stuff though guys, it was funny to read and catch up. I mean, this thread is kinda done and I’ve already won unless people deny feats and just hate like this fellow Sables or TDA or the sieves guy, then it’s pretty clear cut. 


But the arc hasn’t finished, I’m sure there’s a 5 or so chapters Zoro could get up and do something impressive 


@T.D.A 

Umm it never stopped and Zoro was teleported out of the way. I’ll let you look for any other descriptive word… go ahead try again. You aren’t living in London England for no reason… try again.


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## OverpoweredNPC (Jun 1, 2022)

Kid won unbiased but Zoro became an AP beast.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Kingslayer (Jun 1, 2022)

@Beast  won this bet  thread .

Reactions: Like 1


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## Beast (Jun 2, 2022)

Of course I won…. 100 votes for Kidd. 


100 zorotards can be wrong but a 100 kiddstars? Impossible.


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## MrPopo (Jun 30, 2022)

With king being a bozo it's without a doubt that kidd won the beat thread

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## Great Potato (Aug 2, 2022)

The Legion kept snickering about the big ZKK event at the end of the arc that would end this debate once and for all.

What did we get instead?

Aramaki showed up and tanked King's stock to kingdom come, and then followed it up by serving as a hype-tool for two different Yonko.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Funny 6 | Winner 8 | Optimistic 3


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## Admiral Akanezumi (Aug 2, 2022)

Great Potato said:


> The Legion kept snickering about the big ZKK event at the end of the arc that would end this debate once and for all.
> 
> What did we get instead?
> 
> Aramaki showed up and tanked King's stock to kingdom come, and then followed it up by serving as a hype-tool for two different Yonko.


You conveniently forgot to mention Law and King’s sorry ass state versus GB.

Low quality bait; try harder next time.

Reactions: Like 1 | Dislike 2


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## TrolonoaZoro (Aug 2, 2022)

Great Potato said:


> The Legion kept snickering about the big ZKK event at the end of the arc that would end this debate once and for all.
> 
> What did we get instead?
> 
> Aramaki showed up and tanked King's stock to kingdom come, and then followed it up by serving as a hype-tool for two different Yonko.


I don't remember the arc very well because it just ended but from what I recall

Queen and King got off paneled. 

Zoro also fought  yonkous. 

And Zoro had better feats against Kaido who got presented as stronger than big mom.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## truedetectiveseason2intro (Aug 2, 2022)

Great Potato said:


> The Legion kept snickering about the big ZKK event at the end of the arc that would end this debate once and for all.
> 
> What did we get instead?
> 
> Aramaki showed up and tanked King's stock to kingdom come, and then followed it up by serving as a hype-tool for two different Yonko.


It’s useless. They’re gonna come in and talk about the anime just wait.


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## The crazy hacker (Aug 2, 2022)

TrolonoaZoro said:


> I don't remember the arc very well because it just ended but from what I recall
> 
> Queen and King got off paneled.
> 
> ...


Kidd has significantly better feats than pre-ACoC Zoro. He significantly damaged a yonkou. Only with ACoC can it be competitive.


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## Gin (Aug 2, 2022)

a healthy king would give aramaki mid diff and midd high to extreme diff


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## Lmao (Aug 2, 2022)

You guys hitting GP with optimistic ratings but this image:


Is very correct, give or take some >.

Reactions: Like 1


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## truedetectiveseason2intro (Aug 2, 2022)

Gin said:


> a healthy king would give aramaki mid diff and midd high to extreme diff


What diff does king give current zoro?


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## A Optimistic (Aug 2, 2022)

Lmao said:


> You guys hitting GP with optimistic ratings but this image:
> 
> 
> 
> Is very correct, give or take some >.



the problem with the image is that law’s name isn’t mentioned anywhere in it

Reactions: Like 2 | Funny 5


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## TrolonoaZoro (Aug 2, 2022)

The crazy hacker said:


> Kidd has significantly better feats than pre-ACoC Zoro. He significantly damaged a yonkou. Only with ACoC can it be competitive.


Big mom and Kaido were spooked by Dragon Blaze, a technique that's as long as an island. 
Tatsumaki overpowered Kaido, and it's one of Zoro's most basic techniques. 

Re-read wano, bro.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1


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## Gin (Aug 2, 2022)

truedetectiveseason2intro said:


> What diff does king give current zoro?


high-ish

zoro is a better matchup for king because he has better AP than kid and king's a defensive monster

i place zoro and kid as essentially the same

i'm just saying the aramaki 'feat' is nonsense because both king and queen were in recovery from being KO'd

it was obviously meant to portray him as notably superior to both of them but the ease with which he did it is very much contingent on their injuries


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## truedetectiveseason2intro (Aug 2, 2022)

Gin said:


> high-ish
> 
> zoro is a better matchup for king because he has better AP than kid and king's a defensive monster
> 
> ...


I think zoro vs king diff is debatable at the moment depending on why acoc usage exhausted him. I think both Kidd and zoro are in that weird “stronger than any commander but can beat any of the op dogs solo yet” area but Kidd is slightly stronger discounting his match up advantage. I think the acoc problem is gone since zoro tamed enema but we’ll see. If it’s gone zoro probably mid diffs because he dominated once he started using acoc attacks. We’ll see tho.


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## The crazy hacker (Aug 2, 2022)

TrolonoaZoro said:


> Big mom and Kaido were spooked by Dragon Blaze, a technique that's as long as an island.
> Tatsumaki overpowered Kaido, and it's one of Zoro's most basic techniques.
> 
> Re-read wano, bro.



Zoro and 4 other people couldn't put down 2 yonkou while Kidd and Law caused were close to beating Big Mom.

Zoro needs ACoC to beat Law or Kidd.


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## Lmao (Aug 2, 2022)

A Optimistic said:


> the problem with the image is that law’s name isn’t mentioned anywhere in it


Luffy's cheerleaders don't get a mention

Reactions: Funny 3


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## Admiral Akanezumi (Aug 2, 2022)

The crazy hacker said:


> Zoro and 4 other people couldn't put down 2 yonkou while Kidd and Law caused were close to beating Big Mom.


Kidd, Law and some Nukes

Reactions: Funny 2 | Winner 2


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## The crazy hacker (Aug 2, 2022)

Admiral Akanezumi said:


> Kidd, Law and some Nukes


And Kidd was nerfed by Killer attacking him due to the Hawkins dolls. Law was TB by Kaido before fighting BM.


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## A Optimistic (Aug 2, 2022)

The crazy hacker said:


> Zoro and 4 other people couldn't put down 2 yonkou while Kidd and Law caused were close to beating Big Mom.
> 
> Zoro needs ACoC to beat Law or Kidd.



do you realize the “Zoro and 4 other people” who couldn’t take down 2 yonko include law and Kidd? You’re trying to downplay Zoro with an example that also includes Kidd and law

Reactions: Agree 2 | Funny 7


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## The crazy hacker (Aug 2, 2022)

A Optimistic said:


> do you realize the “Zoro and 4 other people” who couldn’t take down 2 yonko include law and Kidd? You’re trying to downplay Zoro with an example that also includes Kidd and law


I am saying that Zoro without ACoC is weaker than Law or Kidd *with awakening* not without.

Zoro extreme diffs Kidd/Law IMO.


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## Yumi Zoro (Aug 2, 2022)

Admiral Akanezumi said:


> Kidd, Law and some *Nukes*


Scream it with me *Nukeeeeeeeees + Yamato and Law & Kid pirates as distraction +Kawamatsu fire démon.

*

Reactions: Funny 2


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## A Optimistic (Aug 2, 2022)

The crazy hacker said:


> I am saying that Zoro without ACoC is weaker than Law or Kidd with awakening not without.



oh my bad for misunderstanding 

ya I can agree with that. Zoro is stronger after his power up

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 1


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## GreenEggsAHam (Aug 2, 2022)

Kidd>Zoro.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Winner 1


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## TrolonoaZoro (Aug 2, 2022)

The crazy hacker said:


> Zoro and 4 other people couldn't put down 2 yonkou while Kidd and Law caused were close to beating Big Mom.
> 
> Zoro needs ACoC to beat Law or Kidd.


That comparison doesn't make sense.

Zoro by feat doesn't need Acoc to overpower Kid and definitely Law.
Stopping Hakai is a strength feat and Kid doesn't have anything on that level. Although he could block a Big Mom swing, which is impressive. And overpowered her and Kaido with meccha. 

Law is a joke and should not be mention in strength feat.

But yeah, because Kid has impressive feat 1 v 1 Big Mom Zoro needs Acoc.

Law doesn't and is not on that level because of it.

Reactions: Agree 2 | Disagree 1


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## T.D.A (Aug 2, 2022)

The crazy hacker said:


> Zoro needs ACoC to beat Law or Kidd.



So he does beat them?

Reactions: Agree 1


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## The crazy hacker (Aug 2, 2022)

T.D.A said:


> So he does beat them?


I have Zoro winning with extreme diff. I am just arguing that Kidd>Pre-ACoC Zoro.


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## T.D.A (Aug 2, 2022)

Kidd spent ages preparing his ultimate move which turned out to be a laser canon., which didn't even do much damage to Big Mom.

Sorry but I'm taking King of Hell Zoro with Advanced Conqueror's Haki over that.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 5 | Funny 1 | Dislike 1


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## Incognitos (Aug 2, 2022)

The crazy hacker said:


> And Kidd was nerfed by Killer attacking him due to the Hawkins dolls. Law was TB by Kaido before fighting BM.


Someone post what the exact same move but a weaker version did to zoro.


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## MrAnalogies (Aug 2, 2022)

Kidd is obviously meant to be above Zoro the way the story is written, but not by a lot.

Reactions: Like 1 | GODA 1 | Optimistic 1


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## Incognitos (Aug 15, 2022)



Reactions: Funny 7


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## Beast (Aug 16, 2022)

This bet thread started mainly started because @Kamina. and @Donquixote Doflamingo the original Kidd haters Lol 
@convict is like FBI/ CIA he’s doing the dirty work in the back like banning me, fucking prick.

Fucking TDA… shit, there’s too many names, soon I saw the wank… I was shocked and had to make this thread from the start. Almost 150 votes for Zoro is fucking shocking though.


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## TheWiggian (Aug 17, 2022)

Man 147 people being correct is a new record

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Ludi (Aug 17, 2022)

I think OP lost the bet, since the "no denying" isn't met.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Incognitos (Aug 17, 2022)

Ludi said:


> I think OP lost the bet, since the "no denying" isn't met.


A new thread needs to be remade once we are out of wano. Every vote so far has been before the end of wano as it hasn't ended yet.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Ludi (Aug 17, 2022)

Incognitos said:


> A new thread needs to be remade once we are out of wano. Every vote so far has been before the end of wano as it hasn't ended yet.


That was the aim of the thread. Whether people think if kid will be indisputably stronger. Or not.


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## Beast (Aug 17, 2022)

Ludi said:


> I think OP lost the bet, since the "no denying" isn't met.


Well, people can deny facts all they want, that doesn’t change anything. 

Kidd is without a doubt stronger then Zoro.

Key words being without a doubt.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Ludi (Aug 17, 2022)

Beast said:


> Well, people can deny facts all they want, that doesn’t change anything.
> 
> Kidd is without a doubt stronger then Zoro.
> 
> Key words being without a doubt.


It seems there still is doubt for some that Kid is undeniably stronger, though not to you. So it's either a rather subjective bet or you didn't win

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Beast (Aug 17, 2022)

Ludi said:


> It seems there still is doubt for some that Kid is undeniably stronger, though not to you. So it's either a rather subjective bet or you didn't win


For some? 

Lol, there is no denying what’s on panel. 


It’s the same people that were shutting their pants at this 2years ago. 

There is nothing subjective about it. There is no wondering, there is no room for a debate. Kidd is stronger then Zoro. 


It must hurt, after all those fake fan translation down playing Kidd, I’m sure quite a few people really believed some of the fake translations and fake hype and downplay. 


But good thing, the manga actually comes with pictures and words, with Oda going out of his way to rub it in everyone’s face, via other characters, via the narrator and the characters themselves. 


So it doesn’t matter to me if some people want to deny facts. There’s people here that think Zoro is the sasuke to Luffys Naruto  


I’m not worried about peoples delusions, Odas work is in black and white.


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## Ludi (Aug 17, 2022)

Beast said:


> Lol, there is no denying what’s on panel.


That's exactly the reason why some would argue for Zoro  

I'd agree that Kid is stronger myself, just not that it's undebatable.

But I see, the bet was thus a rather subjective one to begin with.


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## Beast (Aug 17, 2022)

Ludi said:


> That's exactly the reason why some would argue for Zoro
> 
> I'd agree that Kid is stronger myself, just not that it's undebatable.
> 
> But I see, the bet was thus a rather subjective one to begin with.


Lol, there’s people that think start of the TS Zoro is stronger then every version of Luffy up to WCI. Not everyone uses their brain to think, that’s not really the problem. 


Well, a debate changes nothing if the feats on panel can be denied.  It’s not really my problem if people want to act to stupid and want to compare some Unquantifiable feats such as how damage Zoro took from combo attack of BM/ Kaidou, you know why right? It’s not calculable. I’m not here to waste my time, I already know I won this bet by a landslide, just because some people want to remain ignorant and just don’t want to be wrong, changes nothing. Kidd is still going to stay stronger then Zoro, just some disagree about what’s on panel changes nothing. 


Nothing subjective about it, I knew from the get go Oda was going to have both of them fight this arc (not against each other but they were going to get their opponents this arc), just because some peoples expectations wasn’t met doesn’t change the feats on panel.


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## Ludi (Aug 17, 2022)

Beast said:


> Lol, there’s people that think start of the TS Zoro is stronger then every version of Luffy up to WCI. Not everyone uses their brain to think, that’s not really the problem.
> 
> 
> Well, a debate changes nothing if the feats on panel can be denied.  It’s not really my problem if people want to act to stupid and want to compare some Unquantifiable feats such as how damage Zoro took from combo attack of BM/ Kaidou, you know why right? It’s not calculable. I’m not here to waste my time, I already know I won this bet by a landslide, just because some people want to remain ignorant and just don’t want to be wrong, changes nothing. Kidd is still going to stay stronger then Zoro, just some disagree about what’s on panel changes nothing.
> ...


The thread itself shows it's not undebatable. That's all


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## Beast (Aug 17, 2022)

Ludi said:


> The thread itself shows it's not undebatable. That's all


Rather the opposite, this thread started with Zoro getting 20x the votes compared to Kidd. Up until we left the roof top, Zoros numbers have dwelled down while Kidds sky rocketed to over a 100, the difference was almost a 80 votes at one point in favour of Zoro. First couple pages should tell you what anyway.


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## Beast (Aug 17, 2022)

Funny how only the Zoro boys keep running back to this thread to tackle, ‘there is doubt Kidd is stronger then Zoro’ as that’s going to save them.


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## Yumi Zoro (Aug 17, 2022)

I will photoshop the pool, and keep it in my room as decoration to comtemple Zoro greatness every day from now.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Beast (Aug 17, 2022)

Yumi Zoro said:


> I will photoshop the pool, and keep it in my room as decoration to comtemple Zoro greatness every day from now.


Obviously guys like this, their opinions and posts will not be taken seriously.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## T.D.A (Aug 17, 2022)

Ludi said:


> The thread itself shows it's not undebatable. That's all



He botched his own bet thread. It's pretty funny, should have let another Kid fan make it instead.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Beast (Aug 17, 2022)

Lol, what can I say?

It’s almost without fail, every chapter that gets them scared they run back to this false and wishful thinking that Zoro is similar to Kidd in any shape or forum.

Just because there’s hate on Kidd doesn’t change the many threads around this forum that speak for themselves.


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## T.D.A (Aug 17, 2022)

"There will be no denying that Kidd is stronger then Zoro. Simple."

You should have ran this past a lawyer first.

Reactions: Funny 5


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## Beast (Aug 17, 2022)

T.D.A said:


> "There will be no denying that Kidd is stronger then Zoro. Simple."
> 
> You should have run this past a lawyer first.


So, what’s changed?

I did say that… and from the get go, I stood on that. 


There’s people that deny Luffy solos the whole crew but just because they deny it, doesn’t change the fact. 

Kidd is without a doubt stronger then Zoro, I’m not sure how many times I can really say it. 

He’s got better hype, portrayal and feats. Fuck I care about some joke hater like ‘denying’ facts?


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## Ludi (Aug 17, 2022)

Beast said:


> Funny how only the Zoro boys keep running back to this thread to tackle, ‘there is doubt Kidd is stronger then Zoro’ as that’s going to save them.


The last significant bump was from @Incognitos , you consider even him a zoroboy? Damn.


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## Ludi (Aug 17, 2022)

This was the last significant bump


Beast said:


> Funny how only the Zoro boys keep running back to this thread


You claim this.



Beast said:


> You must be Dyslexic or something. Look at
> @Incognitos post then take a read of what I said.
> 
> 
> When people act like this… is when it might be room for debate and denial.


And now this. Are you feeling alright?

Reactions: Funny 5


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## Eustathios (Aug 17, 2022)



Reactions: Funny 4


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## Beast (Aug 17, 2022)

Ludi said:


> This was the last significant bump
> 
> You claim this.
> 
> ...


So where do you see in his post that claims ‘there is doubt Kidd is stronger Zoro’ ,

You should read things in full and not the first sentence.


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## Ludi (Aug 17, 2022)

I read it completely. Of course it sounds like you mean the only people bump this thread are zoro fans, which isn't the case as all.

Because, why would kid fans bump the thread specifically



Beast said:


> to tackle, ‘there is doubt Kidd is stronger then Zoro



It seems counterproductive to tackle exactly that what they vote for. They bump for their reasons. And it makes sense the other side would argue to tackle that.  

So again, are you OK? Chill, I'm not your enemy, focus on them


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## HaxHax (Aug 17, 2022)

Embarrassing that they can't take their loss

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2


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## Tsukuyomi (Aug 17, 2022)

HaxHax said:


> Embarrassing that they can't take their loss


I admit I took an L.
Ngl tho.
It fucking stings.
May the best man win in the final war.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Beast (Aug 17, 2022)

Ludi said:


> I read it completely. Of course it sounds like you mean the only people bump this thread are zoro fans, which isn't the case as all.
> 
> Because, why would kid fans bump the thread specifically
> 
> ...


lol, I never said just that. 
So again, take time read, comprehend then reply. 
I said the Zoro fans run back to this thread to say the same thing. 

Maybe, you make a point about what Kidd fans tend to say when they bump this thread, the fuck. 

Nah, you just misunderstood me and when corrected, you still try to argue a silly misconception on your side. 


Bruh, anyone who can actually communicate a real reason why Zoro is even worth a grain salt of Kidd, I’m more then willing to reply and have a discussion, not no failed voters that are trying to win via technicality.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## T.D.A (Aug 17, 2022)

Beast said:


> Bruh, anyone who can actually communicate a real reason why Zoro is even worth a grain salt of Kidd, I’m more then willing to reply and have a discussion, not no failed voters that are trying to win via technicality.



Let's look at this objectively

Main wins for Kidd:

+ Main fight vs a Yonko, taking down Big Mom with Law
+ DF awakening, feats vs Big Mom
+ 3 billion bounty same as Luffy and Law, Great Pirate

Main wins for Zoro:

+ Blocked Hakai and wounded Kaido
+ Advanced Conqueror's Haki power up
+ Defeated a Yonko right hand 1v1


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## Beast (Aug 17, 2022)

Blocked Hakai

Reactions: Funny 1


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## T.D.A (Aug 17, 2022)

Beast said:


> Blocked Hakai



Proof you're not serious at all since you want to deny feats that happened lol.

So stop pretending you are.

Reactions: Agree 3


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## TrolonoaZoro (Aug 17, 2022)

No problem with "taking down big mom" though

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Dark (Aug 17, 2022)

All I know is if it was Law and Zoro vs BM, they wouldn't have needed the nukes

Reactions: Funny 2 | Winner 2


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## Incognitos (Aug 17, 2022)

Dark said:


> All I know is if it was Law and Zoro vs BM, they wouldn't have needed the nukes


Cuz they wouldn't have won.

Reactions: Winner 3 | Optimistic 1


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## Beast (Aug 17, 2022)

T.D.A said:


> Proof you're not serious at all since you want to deny feats that happened lol.
> 
> So stop pretending you are.


deny made up feats you mean  


Zoro slowing down Hakai and instantly breaking almost all the bones in his body is not a feat worth mentioning. But obviously when you start telling half truths it sounds a lot better.


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## TheWiggian (Aug 17, 2022)

The "thanks man" from Kid to Zoro was legendary.

Beast probably killed someone out of rage when that happened.

Reactions: Funny 10


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## Dunno (Aug 17, 2022)

Beast said:


> the bet is quite simple, I’m claiming that at the END of Wano, when the battles are said and done, There will be no denying that Kidd is stronger then Zoro. Simple.


I hereby officially deny that Kidd is stronger than Zoro.

Reactions: Funny 6


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## T.D.A (Aug 17, 2022)

Beast said:


> deny made up feats you mean
> 
> 
> Zoro slowing down Hakai and instantly breaking almost all the bones in his body is not a feat worth mentioning. But obviously when you start telling half truths it sounds a lot better.



Cope. It was stated he blocked it, go argue with Oda.

Kid: "It's a real feat you *blocked* that"



At least now you've exposed yourself as not being serious about this bet thread for everyone to see.

Reactions: Winner 4


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## Ludi (Aug 17, 2022)

T.D.A said:


> Cope. It was stated he blocked it, go argue with Oda.
> 
> Kid: "It's a real feat you *blocked* that"
> 
> ...





Beast said:


> A debate changes nothing if the feats on panel can be denied.

Reactions: Funny 4


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## Jin22 (Aug 17, 2022)

Does this thread really have 1000 replies?


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## Tenma (Aug 17, 2022)

well who didn't see this outcome coming 

I think _most_ people have Kidd/Law>Zoro at this point, but so long as the Zoro fans themselves consider Zoro stronger this isn't going anywhere

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Jin22 (Aug 17, 2022)

Its an endurance thing at this point


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## Incognitos (Aug 17, 2022)

Jin22 said:


> Its an endurance thing at this point


Good thing kid has better endurance than zoro. Kid was able to fight yonko continously in the time it took zoro to fight a yonko, pass out, get fully healed, and then pass out again after fighting a YC


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## MrAnalogies (Aug 17, 2022)

A shonen author is almost _never_ going to have the main character's right hand man be stronger than the main character's rival. That alone should have given some of you guys a clue. People keep ignoring portrayal focusing only on feats, then get mad when their predictions blow up in their faces like a scientist mixing chemicals.

Oda *wants* us to think of Kidd as Luffy's rival and spent _several_ fucking panels reinforcing that.





-Kidd was introduced with a higher bounty
-Kidd formed an alliance that was parallel to Luffy's alliance.
-Kidd gets mad when people insult him, Luffy ignores them.
-Kidd was somehow able to keep up with Luffy in the Udon prison with 1 arm, showing monstrous strength and endurance.
-Zoro had a dead even fight with fellow 1st commander Killer and have a bit of a rivalry themselves, what does that tell you? Kidd is definitely stronger than his own commander, right?
-Kidd helped beat a yonko, Zoro beat a commander.
-new bounties are equal.

Oda is shoving it in your faces. Luffy is stronger with gear 5, but that may be temporary. We don't know how Kidd will develop, and the point is once again it's been continuously repeated that Luffy and Kidd are rivals. Zoro is simply not meant to be thought of as being superior to the main characters rival.

Even the "feats" disagree with people claiming otherwise. Kidd went toe to toe with Big Mom, took several hits from her, even overpowered her once. The only thing Zoro did that comes close was scarring Kaido once before collapsing.

Reactions: Like 4 | Agree 1 | Winner 3


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## Incognitos (Aug 17, 2022)

MrAnalogies said:


> A shonen author is almost _never_ going to have the main character's right hand man be stronger than the main character's rival. That alone should have given some of you guys a clue. People keep ignoring portrayal focusing only on feats, then get mad when their predictions blow up in their faces like a scientist mixing chemicals.
> 
> Oda *wants* us to think of Kidd as Luffy's rival and spent _several_ fucking panels reinforcing that.
> 
> ...


Saved in my kidening folder

Reactions: Friendly 1


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## HaxHax (Aug 17, 2022)

T.D.A said:


> Cope. It was stated he blocked it, go argue with Oda.
> 
> Kid: "It's a real feat you *blocked* that"
> 
> ...


"if only for a second"
lol

Besides, it's literally on the panel that Hakai (an AOE attack) continues to move forward around him. It's not like he ever stopped the attack. 

Lying by omission is still lying.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Aug 17, 2022)



Reactions: Funny 1


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## T.D.A (Aug 17, 2022)

HaxHax said:


> "if only for a second"
> lol
> 
> Besides, it's literally on the panel that Hakai (an AOE attack) continues to move forward around him. It's not like he ever stopped the attack.
> ...



Except I posted the image with the whole dialogue including the 'if only for a second'.

I don't think you're blind but maybe the image didn't load on your browser or something


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## HaxHax (Aug 17, 2022)

T.D.A said:


> Except I posted the image with the whole dialogue including the 'if only for a second'.
> 
> I don't think you're blind but maybe the image didn't load on your browser or something


Zolo blocked hakkai no other context necessary!!

Lying by omission is still lying, but I get that this is your modus operandi. You know very well that the only reason you keep saying "zoro blocked hakkai" like a broken record is because it gives a different impression from what actually happened.


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## T.D.A (Aug 17, 2022)

HaxHax said:


> Zolo blocked hakkai no other context necessary!!
> 
> Lying by omission is still lying, but I get that this is your modus operandi.



Except I didn't omit anything, I posted it all. He blocked it, for 'a second', which Kid calls a real feat which you're in denial about.

The fact you try to downplay it because it was only for a sec even though he's saying it's still a real feat despite the duration is hilarious. I don't think you understood the 'context'.

You're even worse than Beast


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## Captain Quincy (Aug 17, 2022)

Kidd (and Law) are stronger good job Beast your faith payed off

Reactions: Like 2 | Funny 1


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## Oda Report (Aug 17, 2022)

Kid and Law are weaker then Zoro.

Law was amazed by Zoro more then once on the rooftop and inducted himself into the legion as VP. Zoro out preformed kid and Law while still trying to figure out Enma.

With Enma mastered it's no question.

Reactions: Like 4


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## Jin22 (Aug 18, 2022)

Incognitos said:


> Good thing kid has better endurance than zoro. Kid was able to fight yonko continously in the time it took zoro to fight a yonko, pass out, get fully healed, and then pass out again after fighting a YC


Lol...I wasn't talking about Zoro or Kidd.  I was talking about this 1000 replies in this damn thread.  None of you will agree, I been here too many times


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## Beast (Aug 18, 2022)

T.D.A said:


> Cope. It was stated he blocked it, go argue with Oda.
> 
> Kid: "It's a real feat you *blocked* that"
> 
> ...


Looooool Zolooooo 
Find a better translation stupid.


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## Joe Maiafication (Aug 18, 2022)

i thought this is one of Rob's character popularity contest lmoa

Reactions: Funny 1 | Optimistic 1


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## Vengeance (Aug 18, 2022)

Kid can take a beating and he can tickle Big Mom with his ultimate attack, great success .

Reactions: Funny 3


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## Oda Report (Aug 18, 2022)

Zoros dragon blaze is more devastating to the entry level Yonkou then Kids laser cannon.


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## Beast (Aug 18, 2022)

Oda Report said:


> Zoros dragon blaze is more devastating to the entry level Yonkou then Kids laser cannon.


Bugger Mom really just took the hit and got back on her feet, you’re right:


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## Oda Report (Aug 18, 2022)

Beast said:


> Bugger Mom really just took the hit and got back on her feet, you’re right:



The entry level Yonkou in big mom didn't want kaidou (the supposed more durable one of the two) to even attempt to tank dragon blaze, and that Zoro is currently weaker then the one we have currently.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Beast (Aug 18, 2022)

Oda Report said:


> The entry level Yonkou in big mom didn't want kaidou (the supposed more durable one of the two) to even attempt to tank dragon blaze, and that Zoro is currently weaker then the one we have currently.


shit… you got beef someone else bruh.


So close to 300 votes yet so far…


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## Great Potato (Aug 29, 2022)

People acting like they don't know who won, yet in the end Kid fans are celebrating while Zoro fans are left making threads like this.



Yumi Zoro said:


> Law and Kidd fans have been creating Propaganda either since the raid ended even though its the Bomb that did 80% of thé work against BM.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


​_"I will have to deal with captain trio propaganda for the next 5 years as a Zoro fan"
"Sanji fans aren't alone in this hard Time"
"It will take Years ans more showing from Zoro and Sanji to clear UP those lie"
"Luffy fans are so happy to ditch them in another trio"
"I just needed to rant"
"See you in 5 Years..."  _

Reactions: Funny 5


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## WeakMCinTraining (Aug 29, 2022)

Zoro impressed me more on the rooftop. But since Law and Kidd took out a Yonko while Zoro a commander, I honestly have to give it to Kidd. 

Don't think 2 Kings can take out a Yonko. Though there was a situational plot bomb in the BM fight and if I remember correctly BM not killing them when they played possum. 

I don't think Law and Kidd are close to Luffy at all but to keep them relevant as "rivals" they should atleast be stronger than Zoro. But I see Zoro being stronger than them EOS.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Kagutsutchi (Aug 29, 2022)

We literally see what happens when two people who are close to Zoro fight a character weaker than Big Mom, they outright lose.

Even against commanders like Marco, they still get ragdolled until they win due to exhaustion on Marco's part.

So Kid and Law's 2 v 1 is not something 2 King's can repeat.

And the plot bombs weren't even that destructive to Big Mom if Yamato can block them with an ice wall.


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## TheWiggian (Aug 29, 2022)

Lmao Kid didn't take off as some people expected and constantly revive old threads and continue trying to downplay the grandmaster.

Reactions: Like 2 | Funny 1


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## convict (Aug 29, 2022)

Zoro is without question stronger and while he always takes Ls against Law (as does Kid) in polls he has won against Kid more often in recent vs threads although Kid has won too. Kid fans patting themselves on the back doesn’t mean anything.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## TrolonoaZoro (Aug 29, 2022)

Great Potato said:


> People acting like they don't know who won, yet in the end Kid fans are celebrating while Zoro fans are left making threads like this.
> 
> 
> ​_"I will have to deal with captain trio propaganda for the next 5 years as a Zoro fan"
> ...


Do you legitimately think that any of Kids feats can't be replicated by pre Acoc Zoro, lol?


I'd understand if you tried to argue that Kid slightly edges Zoro because hype trumps physical feats.

Which got completely eliminated last chapter since Mihawk is a yonkou, and so Zoro will be the only char aside from Luffy to 1 v 1 a yonkou.

Meaning the rest of "A3" ARE NOT projected to be stronger than Zoro, since their special "yonkou slayer" status is done.

But "undoubtedly" winning is legit highly irrational.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Aug 29, 2022)

Kidds ultimate attack is literally weaker then a Dragon Blaze from pre CotC awakening/unmastered enma zoro. 

Like whats the debate here Zoro has better speed, better reflexes, better aoe, better haki on all 3 fronts, wayyyy better attack power, better endurance, better durability like what exactly does kidd do better then Zoro? Like jackshit.

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 2 | Disagree 1


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## Kanki (Aug 29, 2022)

Didn't Kidd/Law's victory over BM basically equal them blowing her away and into external variables i.e bombs? i need to re-read it tbf

Reactions: Like 2


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## Ascot (Aug 29, 2022)

so, have the zoron boys paid the bet yet?


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## Kagutsutchi (Aug 29, 2022)

Kanki said:


> Didn't Kidd/Law's victory over BM basically equal them blowing her away and into external variables i.e bombs? i need to re-read it tbf


Those bombs were blocked by Yamato and didn't do as much damage to Bam as Kid and Law did to her individually

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Admiral Akanezumi (Aug 29, 2022)

Kagutsutchi said:


> Those bombs were blocked by Yamato and didn't do as much damage to Bam as Kid and Law did to her individually


Do you actually believe what you are writing?

Reactions: Funny 3


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## convict (Aug 29, 2022)

Problem is some of us Zoro fans reached for the stars and didn’t just claim Zoro would surpass Kid (which happened) but also Luffy with ZKK and we will always have to deal with the fallout of that

Reactions: Funny 3


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## Kagutsutchi (Aug 29, 2022)

The same Zoro fans who believed ZKK and Ryuma comparisons would happen and were wrong also believed Zoro would be greater than Kid and what do you know? They're also wrong


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## convict (Aug 29, 2022)

Kagutsutchi said:


> The same Zoro fans who believed ZKK and Ryuma comparisons would happen and were wrong also believed Zoro would get advanced Coc, scar Kaido, and be greater than Kid and what do you know?* They were right *



Fixed and Ryuma comparisons will happen when blade blackens we just overestimated when. Likely first step - advanced CoC - happened already. Something another conqueror like Kid couldn’t accomplish.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Incognitos (Aug 29, 2022)

Big Mom on bombs "Don't you dare assume this will kill me"
OL - Bombs are 80% of the victory
Never change.

Not to mention there is no actual visible damage on big mom from the bombs. Yet when she gets hit by damned punk her eyes white out, she's screaming and coughing out blood. 


Admiral Akanezumi said:


> Do you actually believe what you are writing?


It's true though



Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Kidds ultimate attack is literally weaker then a Dragon Blaze from pre CotC awakening/unmastered enma zoro.
> 
> Like whats the debate here Zoro has better speed, better reflexes, better aoe, better haki on all 3 fronts, wayyyy better attack power, better endurance, better durability like what exactly does kidd do better then Zoro? Like jackshit.


The scar that didn't seem to hinder kaidou the entire rest of the fight and he continued to show his most impressive feats after said attack?

Reactions: Winner 1


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## convict (Aug 29, 2022)

Scar didn’t Hinder Kaido just like Gamma knife didn’t hinder Doflamingo after the stitches

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## Kagutsutchi (Aug 29, 2022)

convict said:


> Fixed


More like broken



convict said:


> and Ryuma comparisons will happen


They didn't happen in Wano like a lot of people said they would.



convict said:


> when blade blackens we just overestimated when.


You were just wrong. 




convict said:


> Likely first step - advanced CoC - happened already. Something another conqueror like Kid couldn’t accomplish.


And Kid without AdCoC surpassed Zoro in feats and accomplishments how about that?

Kid with Adcoc will beat Zoro and Mihawk combined lol


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## Kagutsutchi (Aug 29, 2022)

convict said:


> Scar didn’t Hinder Kaido just like Gamma knife didn’t hinder Doflamingo after the stitches


Did Doffy tell Law "that's enough from you" after getting Gamma Knifed?

And Loro himself already said he couldn't knock Kaido down even at full attack power.

Meanwhile Kid cripples BM and forces her to use lifespan.


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## Incognitos (Aug 29, 2022)

convict said:


> Scar didn’t Hinder Kaido just like Gamma knife didn’t hinder Doflamingo after the stitches


the current agenda on OL is that Luffy can 1v1 kaidou no help. I'd say that it did 5-10% HP (10 being on the high end) but doffy had actual showings of that hindering him, can you provide panels of kaidou being hindered by said scar? Note my use of the term "seem", there was no outward appearance of Kaidous abilities or physical prowess getting weaker or hindered by zoro's scar unless you have actual evidence of that happening.

Reactions: Winner 1 | Informative 1


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## convict (Aug 29, 2022)

Kagutsutchi said:


> And Kid without AdCoC surpassed Zoro in feats and accomplishments how about that?
> 
> Kid with Adcoc will beat Zoro and Mihawk combined lol



Nah Kid got overshadowed by his partner in his own fight. Zoro before his powerup was blocking and scarring Yonkou and making them scream in fear and after the powerup would perform far better than Kid did.

When Kid will FINALLY be strong enough to achieve what Zoro already has and enter the pantheon of THE VERY STRONGEST that Kaido described Adv CoC users to be Zoro will be on another level with his blackened blades.


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## Incognitos (Aug 29, 2022)

convict said:


> Nah Kid got overshadowed by his partner in his own fight. Zoro before his powerup was blocking and scarring Yonkou and making them scream in fear and after the powerup would perform far better than Kid did.
> 
> When Kid will FINALLY be strong enough to achieve what Zoro already has and enter the pantheon of THE VERY STRONGEST that Kaido described Adv CoC users to be Zoro will be on another level with his blackened blades.





Great Potato said:


> This itself is largely fabricated though. Big Mom bounced back near instantly from every attack that Law sent at her, and was taking longer to recover from Kid's attacks overall. Even the big Puncture Wille for all of the massive spectacle ultimately just resulted in Big Mom jumping right back to her feet with a smile on her face ready to challenge Kid once more.
> 
> This idea that Kid's attacks were doing nothing compared to Law is something people made up during the Telegram releases because Kid's attack was the cliffhanger every time, so people had the freedom to pretend the attack was garbage each time because we'd have to wait a week to see what the result was. This came about largely as a product of the "Mid" bandwagon; if you reversed the placement and Kid used Punk Crash on Big Mom only for her to remain on her feet ready to counterattack next panel, then gets hit with Shock Wille for the cliffhanger and spends the opening of the next chapter slowly rising to her feet as onlookers wonder if she's finished and powering up/healing to stay in the game, nobody would be saying that Law's attack looked bad next to Kid. Eustass would be getting clowned even harder if anything.
> 
> Kid was showcasing some of the most absurd feats we've seen, like tanking a Mama-Raid while lying on the floor defenseless from being sabotaged by Hawkins, yet the OL was still attempting to find a way to paint that as an L for him.


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## convict (Aug 29, 2022)

Whenever Kid got good damage it was when Law softened her up. Be it Crash, Metal Bull, or the underwhelming railgun.

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## Kagutsutchi (Aug 29, 2022)

convict said:


> Nah Kid got overshadowed by his partner in his own fight.


Yeah that's why Kid always had the last attack, always had BM focus on him and have mid battle conversations with her and almost always landed his attacks without needing a distraction unlike his teleporting friend.

That's why Oda had Killer's fight be about Propping Kid up huh?



convict said:


> Zoro before his powerup was blocking and scarring Yonkou and making them scream in fear and after the powerup would perform far better than Kid did.


Fanfiction. Zoro's powerup couldn't even injure King who Aramaki and Marco casually injured. He had to wait for speed mode.



convict said:


> When Kid will FINALLY be strong enough to achieve what Zoro already has and enter the pantheon of THE VERY STRONGEST that Kaido described Adv CoC users to be Zoro will be on another level with his blackened blades.


Fanfic. I know you're an avid reader of two piece based on all your theories failing and bad scaling.



convict said:


> Whenever Kid got good damage it was when Law softened her up. Be it Crash, Metal Bull, or the underwhelming railgun.


Reverse this and Law will be the only one doing damage while Kid never even softened her up.

I guess Zoro wouldn't have scarred Kaido without all the people that had tenderised him before hand.

Zoro couldn't even cut Flame mode King with AdCoC even after Marco softened him up a lot.

And Railgun ignored Giant Mom AdCoC and completely overpowered her. Zoro can't even Knock Albert around


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## truedetectiveseason2intro (Aug 29, 2022)

Kidd is hated pretty hard and zoro has some of the most delusional fans in one piece this could only ever be a clean victory thread wise for zoro.


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## convict (Aug 29, 2022)

Kagutsutchi said:


> Yeah that's why Kid always had the last attack, always had BM focus on him and have mid battle conversations with her and almost always landed his attacks without needing a distraction unlike his teleporting friend.
> 
> That's why Oda had Killer's fight be about Propping Kid up huh?
> 
> ...



Law always obliterated polls against Kid for a reason. Being devastating internal attacks that were necessary for Kid to do damage on his own or Island level attacks. Or even attacks that don’t make the opponent laugh while receiving them. Or the incredible versatility of his fruit. Kid beats Law in tankiness and that is it.

Rest is just the typical rambling typical of someone who loves to say Loro and Albert


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## truedetectiveseason2intro (Aug 29, 2022)

convict said:


> Law always obliterated polls against Kid for a reason. Being devastating internal attacks that were necessary for Kid to do damage on his own or Island level attacks. Or even attacks that don’t make the opponent laugh while receiving them. Kid beats Law in tankiness and that is it.
> 
> Rest is just the typical rambling typical of someone who loves to say Loro and Albert


He obliterates polls because he’s more liked.


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## convict (Aug 29, 2022)

truedetectiveseason2intro said:


> He obliterates polls because he’s more liked.



That is one reason making it appear more one sided but not the only reason


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## Kagutsutchi (Aug 29, 2022)

convict said:


> Law always obliterated polls against Kid for a reason.


Because of popularity. Do you want me to show you a poll where 40k people said Shanks was stronger than Mihawk? 

Since polls mean something now I guess Shanks is stronger than Mihawk no?




convict said:


> Being devastating internal attacks that were necessary for Kid to do damage on his own or Island level attacks.


Attacks that Big Mom always easily recovered from while Kid forced her to heal with lifespan.

It's never even stated that law softened BM for Kid. But I guess Two piece had that happening.



convict said:


> Or even attacks that don’t make the opponent laugh while receiving them.


Desperation laughs mean nothing. She still couldn't deflect his Railgun with AdCoC and was pinned helplessly to the floor. And she was spitting blood with white eyes.



convict said:


> Or the incredible versatility of his fruit. Kid beats Law in tankiness and that is it.


And raw strength, endurance, stamina, speed, and they tie in Attack power.



convict said:


> Rest is just the typical rambling typical of someone who loves to say Loro and Albert


Coming from the guy who spams Yonji and hates Sanji.


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## convict (Aug 29, 2022)

Kagutsutchi said:


> Because of popularity. Do you want me to show you a poll where 40k people said Shanks was stronger than Mihawk?
> 
> Since polls mean something now I guess Shanks is stronger than Mihawk no?
> 
> ...



Polls whose results you don’t like are popularity. Polls whose results you like have nothing to do with popularity  

Say whatever you want but you can’t hide behind the fact that Law let loose 3 devastating attacks that blasted her insides and Kid’s most powerful attacks immediately capitalized on them each time. Like right after. Obviously they do significantly less damage without Law’s attacks messing her up from the inside.


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## Kagutsutchi (Aug 29, 2022)

convict said:


> Polls whose results you don’t like are popularity. Polls whose results you like have nothing to do with popularity


That's literally you man. I don't take polls seriously unlike you who used it as an argument first. So stop projecting.



convict said:


> Say whatever you want but you can’t hide behind the fact that Law let loose 3 devastating attacks that blasted her insides and Kid’s most powerful attacks immediately capitalized on them each time.


And did more damage without needing a distraction and while Big Mom was fully aware and ready to block.

Or will you say Law softened her Haki too?



convict said:


> Like right after. Obviously they do significantly less damage without Law’s attacks messing her up from the inside.


Obviously Lawn's attacks do less damage than Kids because Big Mom is already ignoring them to face kid and talk to him before he smashes her into another lifespan drain.


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## convict (Aug 29, 2022)

Kagutsutchi said:


> That's literally you man. I don't take polls seriously unlike you who used it as an argument first. So stop projecting.
> 
> 
> And did more damage without needing a distraction and while Big Mom was fully aware and ready to block.
> ...



Haki has to do with concentration and willpower so of course getting lambasted from the insides would affect your Haki in the immediate moments after the attack.


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## Kagutsutchi (Aug 29, 2022)

convict said:


> Haki has to do with concentration and willpower so of course getting lambasted from the insides would affect your Haki in the immediate moments after the attack.


Post the page where it said BM's Haki was affected by Lawn's attack.

Or is it another 2 Pieces lore?


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## Sablés (Aug 29, 2022)

Zoro greatly outperformed Kidd on the roof in importance, AP, and reactions.
Kidd had the nice feat of tanking BM's punch so he's the more durable of the two.

Afterwards, Zoro gets more AP from ACoC while Kidd gets that and some utility.
Zoro flattened his opponent. Kidd's feats were coupled with Law and plot bombs, even though his was way more powerful.

It is literally impossible to tell who is stronger when the feats don't connect. You can go "portrayal" but that doesn't relate to Zoro either as Kidd is only Luffy's rival in name, not actuality, because Oda can't stop sucking Luffy's dick. In the end, only the agenda will decide.

Reactions: Like 1


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## convict (Aug 29, 2022)

Kagutsutchi said:


> Post the page where it said BM's Haki was affected by* Lawn's attack.*
> 
> Or is it another 2 Pieces lore?



Is that a typo or nickname


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## Unresponsivexx (Aug 29, 2022)

M


Kagutsutchi said:


> More like broken
> 
> 
> They didn't happen in Wano like a lot of people said they would.
> ...


Listen I was fine with zoro but MIHAWK????



convict said:


> Is that a typo or nickname


im vengeance


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## Shiba D. Inu (Aug 29, 2022)




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## Incognitos (Aug 29, 2022)

Sablés said:


> Zoro greatly outperformed Kidd on the roof in importance, AP, and reactions.
> Kidd had the nice feat of tanking BM's punch so he's the more durable of the two.
> 
> Afterwards, Zoro gets more AP from ACoC while Kidd gets that and some utility.
> ...


Ah but the feats do connect.  I recommend reading this and coming back



Unresponsive said:


> M
> 
> Listen I was fine with zoro but MIHAWK????
> 
> ...


Kid hardcounters swordsmen. I can see EoS kid beating current zoro and mihawk the same way I see a PK level buggy doing it.


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## Ushiromiya Battler (Aug 29, 2022)

Rip this didn't age well, I even voted for Zoro



Shiba D. Inu said:


>


This involves Law too, get down here

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## Sablés (Aug 29, 2022)

Incognitos said:


> Ah but the feats do connect.  I recommend reading this and coming back


Read it. Don't buy it.

Zoro fought King and Kaido, and barely had any interactions with BIg Mom. Any attempt to narrow down specific elements of Big Mom to King fall short unless you're factoring Queen into the mix with air slashes. Funny thing though. Zoro admittedly was blasted away by King's air slashes...and yet stood his ground against Hakai and changed its trajectory on top of being able to trade blows with Kaido. So either Zoro got weaker after the Rooftop or King was that powerful.

Reactions: Like 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Incognitos (Aug 29, 2022)

Sablés said:


> Read it. Don't buy it.
> 
> Zoro fought King and Kaido, and barely had any interactions with BIg Mom. Any attempt to narrow down specific elements of Big Mom to King fall short unless you're factoring Queen into the mix with air slashes. Funny thing though. Zoro admittedly was blasted away by King's air slashes...and yet stood his ground against Hakai and changed its trajectory on top of being able to trade blows with Kaido. So either Zoro got weaker after the Rooftop or King was that powerful.


There's plenty of direct comparisons from the rooftop and attacks that they both reacted to in which kid outperformed.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Aug 29, 2022)

Incognitos said:


> Big Mom on bombs "Don't you dare assume this will kill me"
> OL - Bombs are 80% of the victory
> Never change.
> 
> ...



Dragon blaze is the attack kaidou dodged.

And its more impressive then Kidds best attack. Even if i agreed Kidds laser is better that wasent even zoros strongest attack at the time and he got 2 power ups better control of enma+advanced cotc afterwards. Advanced Cotc is a massive boost. Luffy went from getting dog walked by kaidou to doing actual damage IN base.

Advanced COTC>>>>kidds shitty laser no matter how you look at it.

Reactions: Like 1 | Disagree 1


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## Kagutsutchi (Aug 30, 2022)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Advanced COTC>>>>kidds shitty laser


Kids laser directly ignored AdCoC from Big Mom to keep pinning her to the ground


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## Great Potato (Aug 30, 2022)

TrolonoaZoro said:


> Do you legitimately think that any of Kids feats can't be replicated by pre Acoc Zoro, lol?



That should go without saying. Pre-aCoC Zoro was getting blasted across the island like the sandbag in home-run contest trying to block King's no name strikes; while Kid could grapple with Big Mom's attacks.

Zoro was keeled over huffing and puffing on the floor from blocking King's punches and kicks while Kid was eating Big Mom attacks clean left and right while sabotaged by Hawkins for a large portion of the fight.

Zoro was failing to put a dent in King's defense even needing 3 aCoC attacks in his non-durability mode to put him down, while Kid and Law were dishing out heavy damage to BM with every attack they landed.

Throughout the Raid the only explanations I got from the Zoro supporters was trying to spin King as the secret 5th Yonko, unironically claiming he must be more durable, more lethal attacks, and greater strength and speed than Big Mom... only for Aramaki to arrive on the scene and take a fat steaming dump fodderizing him and Queen at the same time.



Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Kidds ultimate attack is literally weaker then a Dragon Blaze from pre CotC awakening/unmastered enma zoro.
> 
> Like whats the debate here Zoro has better speed, better reflexes, better aoe, better haki on all 3 fronts, wayyyy better attack power, better endurance, better durability like what exactly does kidd do better then Zoro? Like jackshit.



You mind showing me the panel where Dragon Blaze did something impressive to a top tier? The only showing is cutting the horn off Onigashima. Kid's attacks can do heavy damage to Big Mom, someone who bounced back from Puncture Wille like nothing, an attack that was lightyears more impressive than Dragon Blaze in terms of environmental damage. We saw what Zoro's strongest attack did to Kaido when it actually connected and it wasn't anything mind-blowing.



convict said:


> Haki has to do with concentration and willpower so of course getting lambasted from the insides would affect your Haki in the immediate moments after the attack.



That Kid's attacks only got in the damage because Law _"softened her up"_ is just pure copium to downplay Kid's contributions. At one point Big Mom heals up her wounds and has aCoC haki flowing out of her, yet still panics and desperately avoids Kid's follow-up Punk Corna Dio he sends her way.

Reactions: Winner 4 | Dislike 1


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## GreenEggsAHam (Aug 30, 2022)

Arguing against the narrator is beyond copium.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Aug 30, 2022)

Great Potato said:


> That should go without saying. Pre-aCoC Zoro was getting blasted across the island like the sandbag in home-run contest trying to block King's no name strikes; while Kid could grapple with Big Mom's attacks.
> 
> Zoro was keeled over huffing and puffing on the floor from blocking King's punches and kicks while Kid was eating Big Mom attacks clean left and right while sabotaged by Hawkins for a large portion of the fight.
> 
> ...


Heavy Damage? Base Luffys punch to kaidous stomach looked like more damage then anything kidd did to big mom.

You referring to the attack big mom blocked with a slab of rock that preskip Zoro could cut in half.

Reactions: Funny 1 | Optimistic 1


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## A Optimistic (Aug 30, 2022)

Zoro wins extreme diff I’d say. It’s a very close fight.


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## GreenEggsAHam (Aug 30, 2022)

A Optimistic said:


> Zoro wins extreme diff I’d say. It’s a very close fight.


Nah fam, give it up 1/5 of the wisdom guys>Zoro.


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## A Optimistic (Aug 30, 2022)

GreenEggsAHam said:


> Nah fam, give it up 1/5 of the wisdom guys>Zoro.



the wisdom guys?

Reactions: Funny 3


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## GreenEggsAHam (Aug 30, 2022)

A Optimistic said:


> the wisdom guys?


Yeah whatever the narrator said when they were leaving wano.


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## A Optimistic (Aug 30, 2022)

GreenEggsAHam said:


> Yeah whatever the narrator said when they were leaving wano.



unless the narrator said kidd > Zoro somewhere then I’m not sure what that is supposed to prove


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## GreenEggsAHam (Aug 30, 2022)

A Optimistic said:


> unless the narrator said kidd > Zoro somewhere then I’m not sure what that is supposed to prove


I don't know how you read that and don't come to the obvious conclusion kidd>zoro I get you think haki>all, coating>fruit, but this doesn't apply in this battle.

Reactions: GODA 1


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## convict (Aug 30, 2022)

Great Potato said:


> That Kid's attacks only got in the damage because Law _"softened her up"_ is just pure copium to downplay Kid's contributions. At one point Big Mom heals up her wounds and has aCoC haki flowing out of her, yet still panics and desperately avoids Kid's follow-up Punk Corna Dio he sends her way.



What are you talking about? Exaggeration has its limits or you are misremembering? She obliterated the metal bull with her sword when she unleashed the AdCoC. There was no advanced coc leaking out of her during a follow up and her "panic" entailed making a usual dumb face and being confused why she temporarily couldn't move:



After which she strained and lifted the building to intercept that attack.

This is a much more panicked expression:

Reactions: Like 3


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## Incognitos (Aug 30, 2022)

convict said:


> What are you talking about? Exaggeration has its limits or you are misremembering? She obliterated the metal bull with her sword when she unleashed the AdCoC. There was no advanced coc leaking out of her during a follow up and her "panic" entailed making a usual dumb face and being confused why she temporarily couldn't move:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


@convict you seriously need to reread the fight if you want to argue about it. 

She gets hit by the bull, her arm breaks, she heals up and has AdvCoC flowing out of her.


And this is her face after she realizes she can't move and has the bull coming after her. 

As for her "obliterating the bull" once again it's how kid fights, he doesn't care if one of his constructs gets destroyed because he can reform it. After Big Mom "Obliterates the bull" it's reformed and charging at her fully reformed two pages later. Kid literally says to that attack you're referring to "That's nothing, this is just scrap to begin with".

Reactions: Winner 3


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## bil02 (Aug 30, 2022)

Kid vs Zoro thread bet thread number #10000 argument


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## Incognitos (Aug 30, 2022)

bil02 said:


> Kid vs Zoro thread bet thread number #10000 arguments


Unfortunately many people come in thinking they have new arguments, they get disproven, they go away instead of conceding then come back after they've forgotten that they've already been disproven. It's like arguing with a bunch of Alzheimer's patients


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## Incognitos (Aug 30, 2022)

Sablés said:


> Read it. Don't buy it.
> 
> Zoro fought King and Kaido, and barely had any interactions with BIg Mom. Any attempt to narrow down specific elements of Big Mom to King fall short unless you're factoring Queen into the mix with air slashes. Funny thing though. Zoro admittedly was blasted away by King's air slashes...and yet stood his ground against Hakai and changed its trajectory on top of being able to trade blows with Kaido. So either Zoro got weaker after the Rooftop or King was that powerful.


For example this Sables clearly doesn't read the thread posted because there are multiple comparsions that don't involve big mom. For example the killer attack that they both took is portrayed in durability


Sablés said:


> Zoro greatly outperformed Kidd on the roof in importance, AP, and reactions.
> Kidd had the nice feat of tanking BM's punch so he's the more durable of the two.
> 
> Afterwards, Zoro gets more AP from ACoC while Kidd gets that and some utility.
> ...


In his original post he says that zoro greatly outperforms kid in reactions, this is blatantly disproven in great potato's post on reactions where Kid shows superior reactions to every attack they both reacted to on the rooftop. He shows greater reactions to big mom who shows greater reactions to marco who shows greater reactions to king and zoro. He also shows faster reactions to law in multiple cases on the rooftop, against hawkins, and against big mom. And he shows faster reactions than zoro against Apoo. 

There's very little evidence that zoro has faster reactions than kid yet this is spouted without evidence repeatedly and when called out asking for it it will not be provided or if it is it'll be weak evidence that's disproven and continuously posted. This isn't a sable specific issue, he just so happens to be the most recent that I've seen. 

Zoro "flattened his opponent" despite that the idea that zoro vs king was anything less than a very high diff fight has been disproven multiple times here. Repeatedly. If anyone thinks that's not true we can make yet another thread on this but it won't be read by the people who need to read it the most and it'll be ignored. 

I'm tired of this repeated Alzheimer's syndrome that primarily comes from the legion and their bad faith arguments. This is exacerbated by the fact that the majority of the mods here are legionnaires (I actually can't think of an active mod that isn't) which allow for their fellow zoro fans to get away with things that frankly wouldn't be allowed for if it was other characters. I recently saw one legionnaire mod delete posts because he switched to unrelated personal attacks when he was losing the argument.

Reactions: Winner 2 | Disagree 1


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## Sufex (Aug 30, 2022)

Kidd obviously but seems the fanbase is full of zoro delusionalists. 

Tbh i get that hes cool, but please

Reactions: Winner 1


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## convict (Aug 30, 2022)

Incognitos said:


> @convict
> 
> 
> And this is her face after she realizes she can't move and has the bull coming after her.
> ...



Come on don't be intellectually dishonest. This is the face of her straining and lifting the weight of the building as I mentioned. You can see that by her veins, her going "HRRGH!" and the sound effects of the building moving while she strains. Her expression realizing she couldn't move and "panicking" was right before this and exactly what I linked. I am not going to waste my time if you simply argue in bad faith.

Reactions: Like 1


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## TrolonoaZoro (Aug 30, 2022)

Kaido vs Enma.
1: Zoro not enough Haki
2: Zoro too much Haki, island long tech.
3: Mid level tech cuts Kaido AFTER outpowering Kaido's tornados.

*Spoiler*: __ 











1: King seemingly bleeding, but no wound next chapter.
2: King vs Tatsumaki blocks it.
3: King tanks an ACOC onigiri

*Spoiler*: __ 
















But King is not a yonkou so we need to ignore his ridiculous durability?

Reactions: Agree 2


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## convict (Aug 30, 2022)

> Incognitos covered this one. Your argument was that Big Mom was made vulnerable to Kid's attacks because Law softened her up and shut down her defenses/haki somehow, yet a freshly healed Big Mom who had been shown with aCoC spilling out was still desperate to avoid getting hit by Kid's follow-up attack. Clearly she views his attacks as a threat that she doesn't want to get hit by.



My argument was never that Kid's attacks did 0 damage or weren't a threat. They still do damage.

But that the damage was notably magnified by immediately connecting right after Law demolished her insides 3 separate times.


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## GreenEggsAHam (Aug 30, 2022)

The portrayal makes it clear oda has kidd over zoro.

Just because you have coating doesn't mean you win.

Reactions: Like 1 | GODA 1 | Disagree 1


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## Kagutsutchi (Aug 30, 2022)

convict said:


> My argument was never that Kid's attacks did 0 damage or weren't a threat. They still do damage.
> 
> But that the damage was notably magnified by immediately connecting right after Law demolished her insides 3 separate times.


If Kid had hit BM before Law, would the damage have been the same as Law's or lesser?

Because we have the manga to tell us who's attacks made BM use more effort but I wanna know what happens in Two Piece


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## TrolonoaZoro (Aug 30, 2022)

Great Potato said:


> It's his main arc-fight, it's only natural to use those showings as evidence.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Facetiously reducing King to "non yonkou main fight" doesn't make any sense.

Lmao what? Zoro was sent flying everytime


What am i supposed to do, count a combine attack as only big mom? Why? 
So now we have pre-Acoc Zoro stopping the combined attack of 2 yonkous, what is easily top 3 feat in blocking. And you want to pretend that he would be unable to stop singular attack Big Mom because King is a competent combo fighter? 

And I only point out how she's a joke character because she actually knocked them both out and their crews were asking for forgiveness, and she inexplicably did. Lol, Not as a way to diminish her attack power.


"_while Kid and Law were dishing out heavy damage to BM with every attack they landed_." 
turns into "with _*Awakening*_" 
Subtle but completely different CLAIMS.

she capitalized in her vulnerable state=shows her grinning after an attack, lmao. Can't make this up.
Meanwhile every panel of Zoro sent flying is after a barrage of attacks, crazy how that works? Right?

I don't understand how you can pretend the durability argument makes sense post panel showing, lmao. Name dropping "admiral" rank is top tier delusion.




TrolonoaZoro said:


> 1: Zoro not enough Haki
> 2: Zoro too much Haki, island long tech.
> 3: Mid level tech cuts Kaido AFTER outpowering Kaido's tornados.
> 
> ...





And you're still fighting PRE-ACOC ZORO, btw. 
I haven't used a singular Acoc feat to argue Zoro. 

You see the issue?

Reactions: Like 2


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## Soba (Aug 30, 2022)

So... Kidd got the higher bounty, beat the stronger opponent, and got the better portrayal...

...And somehow this is still debatable

Reactions: Agree 1 | Winner 2 | GODA 1 | Lewd 1


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## A Optimistic (Aug 30, 2022)

SobaHat said:


> So... Kidd got the higher bounty, beat the stronger opponent, and got the better portrayal...
> 
> ...And somehow this is still debatable



did Kidd beat the stronger opponent on his own? I thought it was a 2v1

if it was Kidd vs big mom, then of course nobody would be questioning kidd’s superiority 

a 2v1 is not the same as a 1v1.

Reactions: Like 3


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## GreenEggsAHam (Aug 30, 2022)

A Optimistic said:


> did Kidd beat the stronger opponent on his own? I thought it was a 2v1


Switch kidd with king and big mom absolute destroys, point is he was still shown superior.

Reactions: Winner 2


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## Soba (Aug 30, 2022)

A Optimistic said:


> did Kidd beat the stronger opponent on his own? I thought it was a 2v1
> 
> if it was Kidd vs big mom, then of course nobody would be questioning kidd’s superiority
> 
> a 2v1 is not the same as a 1v1.


I mean BM is easily >> 2 Kings so It kinda counts no


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## A Optimistic (Aug 30, 2022)

GreenEggsAHam said:


> Switch kidd with king and big mom absolute destroys, point is he was still shown superior.



I’m going to assume you’re saying switch Kidd and zoro?

in that case, Kidd defeats king. And zoro + law + nuclear bombs defeats big mom

not sure what changes if Kidd and zoro switch places, assuming I understood your post correctly.

if I misunderstood you then feel free to correct me


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## GreenEggsAHam (Aug 30, 2022)

A Optimistic said:


> I’m going to assume you’re saying switch Kidd and zoro?
> 
> in that case, Kidd defeats king. And zoro + law + nuclear bombs defeats big mom
> 
> ...


I just mean let king/law vs big mom and she wins easy.

Zoro will be holding law back with his restrictions with his new swordsmenships style and gradully kills himself.


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## A Optimistic (Aug 30, 2022)

GreenEggsAHam said:


> I just mean let king/law vs big mom and she wins easy.



okay?

king is noticeably weaker than Zoro/Kidd/law so I’m not sure what a king/law tag team losing is supposed to prove



GreenEggsAHam said:


> Zoro will be holding law back with his restrictions with his new swordsmenships style and gradully kills himself.



Zoro was never holding back low on the rooftop so I’m not sure why you think he will suddenly be holding law back in a 2v1.

I’ll be honest, it sounds like you’re just trying to downplay advanced coc after what shanks did to greenbull


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## GreenEggsAHam (Aug 30, 2022)

A Optimistic said:


> okay?
> 
> king is noticeably weaker than Zoro/Kidd/law so I’m not sure what a king/law tag team losing is supposed to prove


Yo said did  kidd beat a stronger opponent, that's why I put that there.


A Optimistic said:


> Zoro was never holding back low on the rooftop so I’m not sure why you think he will suddenly be holding law back in a 2v1.


Because his koh form holds him back and without he gets low-diff by big mom.


A Optimistic said:


> I’ll be honest, it sounds like you’re just trying to downplay advanced coc after what shanks did to greenbull


I knew it, putting zoro above kidd because of having coating when will you learn coating is not end all be all, narrartor said the captains were apart of the wisdom kings not zoro.

And I've been downplaying after gb/shanks incident? how I up-play shanks, and gb said he didn't want to fight the crew yet

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## Soba (Aug 30, 2022)

Guys, one was thrashed by King all over Onigashima, the other one was overpowering BM 

Kidd's damage/power/overall feats would look absolutely incredible against King, as he's a far weaker character than BM, Doesn't matter if it's a 1v1 ir 2v1. The attacks Kidd used against BM would absolutely destroy King. With that being said, Zoro's attacks against King would look far less impressive against BM. His absolute strongest attack wouldn't do much if we go by the damage Oden gave Kaido (Oden AP>>>Zoro's) and BM could also easily heal it. He doesn't even have the haxx/power to push her off the island like Kidd did, so no way do a Law/Zoro duo win versus BM. Same goes for the damage they took, too. If attacks from King were enough to push Zoro to his absolute limit, He's for sure getting put down by BM. Overpowered as hell, too. On the other Hand, Kidd's gonna completely overpower King, as he did so to BM, and his attacks that are capable of breaking her bones are putting him down for sure. He's also gonna easily tank his attacks, as he did so to BM's. 

Nobody's mentioning the stamina issue, too. Kidd and Law vs BM was a loooot longer than Zoro vs King. They used their Awakening for a longer amount of time than Zoro used ACoC vs King. Zoro admitted that if the fight went on for any longer, the sword would kill him. Hence, he won't be able to keep his ACoC up for as long as Kidd or Law kept using their awakening, meaning he has absolutely no chance of beating BM if paired with either one of them. 

All in all Kidd has better feats, better portrayal and better hype than Zoro. Why are we even having this discussion is beyond me.

Reactions: Winner 2 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Sablés (Aug 30, 2022)

Incognitos said:


> For example this Sables clearly doesn't read the thread posted because there are multiple comparsions that don't involve big mom. For example the killer attack that they both took is portrayed in durability


What attack? Better not be Indra.


Incognitos said:


> In his original post he says that zoro greatly outperforms kid in reactions, this is blatantly disproven


Who reacted to Hakkai and did something about it, Kidd or Zoro?


Incognitos said:


> Zoro "flattened his opponent" despite that the idea that zoro vs king was anything less than a very high diff fight has been disproven multiple times here. Repeatedly. If anyone thinks that's not true we can make yet another thread on this but it won't be read by the people who need to read it the most and it'll be ignored.


Zoro unlocked ACoC over the course of the fight where he'd already sustained injuries. 
Everything before that isn't relevant, and with that, King was outclassed.


Incognitos said:


> their bad faith arguments.


Only terrible argument I'm seeing here is your assumption that writing walls of text makes you right. I don't respond because I don't care to respond, not because you have a point. Learn the difference.


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## Ars?ne (Aug 30, 2022)

Kid dont even got his AdCoC yet and he is clear of Zoro.    .

Black Metal Kid and Law after he masters the alphabet will show Z lads the difference between subordinates and leaders.

Reactions: Winner 2


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## Great Potato (Aug 30, 2022)

convict said:


> My argument was never that Kid's attacks did 0 damage or weren't a threat. They still do damage.
> 
> But that the damage was notably magnified by immediately connecting right after Law demolished her insides 3 separate times.



Your argument is something made up to downplay Kid's feats. Though I suppose I can't entirely blame you for being so intimidated by his offense, that you'd have to try to pin his feats on another character.



TrolonoaZoro said:


> Facetiously reducing King to "non yonkou main fight" doesn't make any sense.
> 
> Lmao what? Zoro was sent flying everytime



Is that supposed to be the panel you claim of Zoro launching King away with his attack?

King flying because he's a Pteranadon zoan is a bit different than Zoro being sent flying because the enemies attack was too powerful for him to block.



TrolonoaZoro said:


> What am i supposed to do, count a combine attack as only big mom? Why?
> So now we have pre-Acoc Zoro stopping the combined attack of 2 yonkous, what is easily top 3 feat in blocking. And you want to pretend that he would be unable to stop singular attack Big Mom because King is a competent combo fighter?



The "combo fighter" King argument to try justifying Zoro's shoddy portrayal reeks of sheer desperation.

Let's take a look at these "combos" as you call them.

Zoro launched #1: A single hit from the flying slash that King is wantonly spamming around.

*Spoiler*: __ 









Zoro launched #2: Zoro tries to clash with King's single hit technique and loses the power struggle getting sent flying once more.


Zoro launched #3: Zoro takes another single hit and goes soaring out even farther. I guess you could call this a combo since it's a follow-up of the last hit, but since both hits sent him flying I don't see how it does you favors.


Zoro launched #4: King and Zoro trade a small flurry of clashes that ends with King sending Zoro flying on block. Doesn't make much sense to pin Zoro getting launched on block by that last swing to the chain of smaller attacks that were successfully parried.

*Spoiler*: __ 








Zoro launched #5: King gets a clean kick on distracted Zoro who is trying to recover his blade. This one is more excusable for Zoro given the circumstances, but I'll point out King throwing the fight by kicking Zoro back onto the island after he fell off since you only want to pull out the villain making poor decisions when it comes to BM.


Zoro launched #6: King throws out some lesser projectiles to help close the gap before launching Zoro through the floor with a big hit when he attempts to block.


This is one of the clearest depictions of a straight power deficit we've come across in the manga. This is showcasing Zoro being overwhelmed and thrown around by a physically more overpowering foe, not him being launched because his opponent is using some masterful combo-work and technical skill.



TrolonoaZoro said:


> And I only point out how she's a joke character because she actually knocked them both out and their crews were asking for forgiveness, and she inexplicably did. Lol, Not as a way to diminish her attack power.



If they were defeated they wouldn't have been back on their feet with a sword sticking through her the moment she turned around. Fact of the matter is they took an outrageous amount of punishment from her and at the end of it all were still in condition to go down swinging against Kaido. Big Mom used her full sleeve of techniques and couldn't bring them down.



TrolonoaZoro said:


> "_while Kid and Law were dishing out heavy damage to BM with every attack they landed_."
> turns into "with _*Awakening*_"
> Subtle but completely different CLAIMS.



Kid busted out the Awakening techniques as soon as Hawkins was defeated and he was ready to fight for real, so for the purposes of the discussion all of the attacks we saw from that point were dishing out heavy damage. I can concede that initial Gibson Slam wasn't a heavily damaging attack, but you're kind of fishing here if that's what you're trying to take away as a victory or me making "completely different claims".



TrolonoaZoro said:


> she capitalized in her vulnerable state=shows her grinning after an attack, lmao. Can't make this up.
> Meanwhile every panel of Zoro sent flying is after a barrage of attacks, crazy how that works? Right?



Are you saying Big Mom hitting Kid with Mama Raid while he was on the floor defenseless from Hawkins doesn't count as her capitalizing on his vulnerable state... because she was grinning after landing her free attack? Because that's a tremendously dumb argument.



TrolonoaZoro said:


> I don't understand how you can pretend the durability argument makes sense post panel showing, lmao. Name dropping "admiral" rank is top tier delusion.



It's not top tier delusion to point out how King and Queen were portrayed as complete fodder to Aramaki.

It merely destroys the top tier delusion that King was some hot-shit with Yonko level stats across the board that had been peddled for a long while prior to Ryokugyu showing us where exactly he stood on the pecking order.



TrolonoaZoro said:


> And you're still fighting PRE-ACOC ZORO, btw.
> I haven't used a singular Acoc feat to argue Zoro.
> 
> You see the issue?



You better start using aCoC Zoro, because these pre-aCoC Zoro arguments aren't going well for you at all.

I'll even do you the favor of mentioning those aCoC feats for you though since you've decided to bring them up.
-Leaving a scar on Kaido
-Defending against King's trick blade
-Needing three attacks to defeat speed-mode King

The only one really worth mentioning here in relation to Kid and Law is scarring Kaido. Impressive, but not really moreso than snapping Big Mom's limbs.

On that note, I haven't even addressed the hax that Kid is riding with that even Big Mom with her Yonko level haki was unable to resist.
You see the issue?

Reactions: Winner 2


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## ShadoLord (Aug 30, 2022)

GreenEggsAHam said:


> The portrayal makes it clear oda has kidd over zoro.
> 
> Just because you have coating doesn't mean you win.


Zoro vs Kid is like Shanks vs Greenbull


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## GreenEggsAHam (Aug 30, 2022)

ShadoLord said:


> Zoro vs Kid is like Shanks vs Greenbull


Nah zoro doesn't take kidd to extreme.


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## ShadoLord (Aug 30, 2022)

GreenEggsAHam said:


> Nah zoro doesn't take kidd to extreme.


Zoro mid/high-diffs Kid like how Shanks would treat Greenbull. 

advCoC > your random devil fruit user


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## Incognitos (Aug 30, 2022)

ShadoLord said:


> Zoro mid/high-diffs Kid like how Shanks would treat Greenbull.
> 
> advCoC > your random devil fruit user


Then how did kid and law beat an advcoc user.

Reactions: Funny 1 | Winner 1 | GODA 1


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## GreenEggsAHam (Aug 30, 2022)

ShadoLord said:


> Zoro mid/high-diffs Kid like how Shanks would treat Greenbull.
> 
> advCoC > your random devil fruit user


Funny if the Oda put zoro in the wisdom king scene and not kidd zoro fans would be using that as evidence.


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## ShadoLord (Aug 30, 2022)

Incognitos said:


> Then how did kid and law beat an advcoc user.


??? you literally said it yourself. Kid AAAAAANNNNNNNDDDDDD Law

thats two niqqa jumping on one person.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## ShadoLord (Aug 30, 2022)

GreenEggsAHam said:


> Funny if the Oda put zoro in the wisdom king scene and not kidd zoro fans would be using that as evidence.


funnily enough you took out Law who muscle'd and contributed 75% in that fight to Kid's 25%

Reactions: Funny 1 | Dislike 2


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## truedetectiveseason2intro (Aug 30, 2022)

ShadoLord said:


> ??? you literally said it yourself. Kid AAAAAANNNNNNNDDDDDD Law
> 
> thats two niqqa jumping on one person.


Do you think bm and zoro are comparable?


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## ShadoLord (Aug 30, 2022)

truedetectiveseason2intro said:


> Do you think bm and zoro are comparable?


Yes. 

just like how Yamato could hold off Kaido by herself due to having advCoC. It makes him on the cusp of top tiers. I can't say the same for your average df awakenings plus haki nubs though.

Reactions: Like 1 | Dislike 1


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## A Optimistic (Aug 30, 2022)

SobaHat said:


> Guys, one was thrashed by King all over Onigashima, the other one was overpowering BM



Why are you comparing Zoro before his powerup to Kidd after he activated awakening?


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## TrolonoaZoro (Aug 30, 2022)

Great Potato said:


> Your argument is something made up to downplay Kid's feats. Though I suppose I can't entirely blame you for being so intimidated by his offense, that you'd have to try to pin his feats on another character.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I usually  don't try to accuse people of trolling, because is low tier.

"Power deficit"

But, there is no way that you post a page where there is so many Air slashes from King his own man are getting collateral and then you say "singular air slash" How do you justify that?

You then literally use King taking advantage of Zoro being midair as a singular attack and not a continuation even though Zoro's momentum from the previous attack is still on effect, lmao.

The panel shows Zoro clashing with King as he uses his beak attack, and King being launched to the direction Zoro is swinging to, are you serious?

Then you have the gonads to post Zoro having issues with enma, distracted by his thought and BEING MID AIR RECOVERING A SWORD. To make a point about power deficit.

Meanwhile Zoro parries King with his head, and clashes evenly when it's singular attacks. Including beak attack above that you want to sell as "flying" lmao. 
*Spoiler*: __ 










No, dude. Jus take the L.

BIG MOM FIGHT

Yeah, Law couldn't have attack her from the front because he always needed an external element to create an opening. Irrelevant how you're trying to sell that as a non-defeat, though. The point is that Kid wasn't eating her hits, lmao.


Right, awaken mode includes 3 attacks Corno dio, steel beams crashing into her and Lasers.  So when you say "all" it's a little ridiculous that it is only 3 attacks. Which accomplish breaking her bone with the help of Law's internal tech, beams crashing into her AFTER Law's internally damaging tech and pushing her down a hole AFTER Law internally damages her.
"All" is kinda wild since they're specific techniques in very specific context of she being previously soften up.


Attacking Kid while he's distracted by Hawkins' headache is great. Standing like an idiot after the fact it's not.
The conversation exist within the context of King's fighting style vs Big Mom. It's not at all similar to perform ONE ATTACK, and then grin. To performing a combo. There is no way around it.  One is a more serious fighter. That's the way it was presented, it is not debatable. Not even if you somehow count King's tech as a bunch of individual techniques lmao.

---------
Acoc Zoro
Lmao, Acoc Zoro disappears Kid. Don't do this to yourself.
Kid has to show us a technique better than island long Dragon Blazer before we introduce Acoc hits into the mix, don't destroy your argument so quickly, dude.

Reactions: Winner 3 | Tier Specialist 3


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## truedetectiveseason2intro (Aug 30, 2022)

ShadoLord said:


> Yes.
> 
> just like how Yamato could hold off Kaido by herself due to having advCoC. It makes him on the cusp of top tiers. I can't say the same for your average df awakenings plus haki nubs though.


Bm and zoro are not comparable.


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## ShadoLord (Aug 30, 2022)

truedetectiveseason2intro said:


> Bm and zoro are not comparable.


????


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## Unresponsive (Aug 30, 2022)

ShadoLord said:


> Yes.
> 
> just like how Yamato could hold off Kaido by herself due to having advCoC. It makes him on the cusp of top tiers. I can't say the same for your average df awakenings plus haki nubs though.


Lil bro do us all a favor and use your brain, Yamato held off kaido because kaido wasn't trying. Yamato didn't hold off kaido all she did was stall him. Adv coc isn't some special cool 100% overpowered thing that scales you above everyone who doesn't have it automatically. That would be foolish. Zoro not only is dying to law and kidd if they fought 1 on 1. But zoro aint doing nothing. Stop sucking off a yc level fodder to yonko level peak characters


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## ShadoLord (Aug 30, 2022)

Unresponsive said:


> Lil bro do us all a favor and use your brain, Yamato held off kaido because kaido wasn't trying. Yamato didn't hold off kaido all she did was stall him. Adv coc isn't some special cool 100% overpowered thing that scales you above everyone who doesn't have it automatically. That would be foolish. Zoro not only is dying to law and kidd if they fought 1 on 1. But zoro aint doing nothing. Stop sucking off a yc level fodder to yonko level peak characters


ah yes, the infamous passing off personal headcanon as facts to support your gibberish nonsense.

I got manga panels to prove my point. Luffy also commented on that fact, you trash.


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## Unresponsive (Aug 30, 2022)

ShadoLord said:


> ah yes, the infamous passing off personal headcanon as facts to support your gibberish nonsense.
> 
> I got manga panels to prove my point. Luffy also commented on that fact, you trash.


So your going to prove that having advcoc scales you above everyone? Okay go ahead please show evidence.


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## ShadoLord (Aug 30, 2022)

Unresponsive said:


> So your going to prove that having advcoc scales you above everyone? Okay go ahead please show evidence.


1010 Luffy and Yamato. 

what do they have in common that allows them to go head to head with Kaido? You guessed it, advCoC. Zoro has also proven to clash effectively against Kaido with unconscious advCoC. Just hug that L and go to sleep, kiddo.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Unresponsive (Aug 30, 2022)

ShadoLord said:


> 1010 Luffy and Yamato.
> 
> what do they have in common that allows them to go head to head with Kaido? You guessed it, advCoC. Zoro has also proven to clash effectively against Kaido with unconscious advCoC. Just hug that L and go to sleep, kiddo.


Welcome back to fact or stupidity this is obviously stupidity. Luffy was already going to head to head with kaido before using adv coc for the first time. Adv coc didn't allow them to thats just headcanon. He didn't clash with kaido he snuck up kaido gave him a scar that kaido didn't even care about right after. I could have adv coc and yet absolutely no speed, no durability, no endurance, no stamina, and no strength and Ill still not go toe to toe with kaido. Want to know why? Because haki isn't everything and devil fruit users have other ways to bypass kaidos durability. Especially for law, luffy, and kidd.


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## ShadoLord (Aug 30, 2022)

Unresponsive said:


> Welcome back to fact or stupidity this is obviously stupidity. Luffy was already going to head to head with kaido before using adv coc for the first time.


 



he got one shotted easily.

Reactions: Funny 2


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## GreenEggsAHam (Aug 30, 2022)

ShadoLord said:


> he got one shotted easily.


Wisdom Trio
3bil trio

There above zoro my man you're foolish if you think coating end all be all.


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## ShadoLord (Aug 30, 2022)

GreenEggsAHam said:


> Wisdom Trio
> 3bil trio
> 
> There above zoro my man you're foolish if you think coating end all be all.


Buggy > wisdom trio I suppose? Unless you're being selective about the bounties comparison of Captains?

Reactions: Funny 1


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## GreenEggsAHam (Aug 30, 2022)

ShadoLord said:


> Buggy > wisdom trio I suppose? Unless you're being selective about the bounties comparison of Captains?


zoro is in the 1bil trio with sanji and jinbei, sadly he's not comparable to the captains what im tryna say.

We know the wg is tryna downplay luffy threat but still oda put equal to the other bounties.


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## ShadoLord (Aug 30, 2022)

GreenEggsAHam said:


> zoro is in the 1bil trio with sanji and jinbei, sadly he's not comparable to the captains what im tryna say.
> 
> We know the wg is tryna downplay luffy threat but still oda put equal to the other bounties.


Buggy > wisdom trio I suppose? Unless you're being selective about the bounties comparison of Captains?

Reactions: Friendly 1


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## GreenEggsAHam (Aug 30, 2022)

ShadoLord said:


> Buggy > wisdom trio I suppose? Unless you're being selective about the bounties comparison of Captains?


zoro is in the 1bil trio with sanji and jinbei, sadly he's not comparable to the captains what im tryna say.

We know the wg is tryna downplay luffy threat but still oda put equal to the other bounties.

Reactions: Friendly 1


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## Unresponsive (Aug 30, 2022)

ShadoLord said:


> he got one shotted easily.


AH yes one shotted, I also forgot when luffy was getting attacked by kaido multiple times such as



oh yeah and this 


Oh and maybe this isnt true too

Reactions: Funny 1


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## ShadoLord (Aug 30, 2022)

Unresponsive said:


> AH yes one shotted, I also forgot when luffy was getting attacked by kaido multiple times such as
> 
> 
> 
> ...


post the next panel again, Luffy got laid out cold.

let's see, he barely dodged the first hit. Then block the 2nd hit before getting laid out in his 3rd.


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## Unresponsive (Aug 30, 2022)

ShadoLord said:


> post the next panel again, Luffy got laid out cold.


From getting hit by kaido, the point is that kaido didn't oneshot luffy so mald cry and give me your tears


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## Medeia (Aug 30, 2022)

Big Mom fight Kid folds that Swordsman, who faints after needing a burst of adcoc to extreme diff King. Wait for Zoro to actually spam adcoc without all his haki to get insta drained and blackening Enma, before you compare Zoro to Big Mom and other Yonkou and act like he's on a whole other level to current Kid & Law individually, Zoro legion lol.

Reactions: Dislike 2


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## ShadoLord (Aug 30, 2022)

Unresponsive said:


> From getting hit by kaido, the point is that kaido didn't oneshot luffy so mald cry and give me your tears


ah yes you can be that petty. So I'll take back that one shot but Kaido still ended Luffy in one solid hit. That's not head to head level fight, that's called getting school'ed.


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## Unresponsive (Aug 30, 2022)

ShadoLord said:


> ah yes you can be that petty. So I'll take back that one shot but Kaido still ended Luffy in one solid hit. That's not head to head level fight, that's called getting school'ed.


And yet luffy knocked kaido out, shown here
​


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## Great Potato (Aug 31, 2022)

TrolonoaZoro said:


> I usually  don't try to accuse people of trolling, because is low tier.
> 
> "Power deficit"
> 
> But, there is no way that you post a page where there is so many Air slashes from King his own man are getting collateral and then you say "singular air slash" How do you justify that?



I mentioned that King was wantonly spamming them around, but Zoro himself only took one of the stray slashes. The rest were spread all over the place without rhyme or reason which is why they were hitting the grunts, Queen, and random walls not anywhere close to Zoro.



TrolonoaZoro said:


> You then literally use King taking advantage of Zoro being midair as a singular attack and not a continuation even though Zoro's momentum from the previous attack is still on effect, lmao.



The previous attack where Zoro was getting launched from getting overpowered in a clash by the previous attack. Zoro is capable of performing airborne as well, I would have thought you'd have known this since you keep bringing up the Dragon Blaze. 



TrolonoaZoro said:


> The panel shows Zoro clashing with King as he uses his beak attack, and King being launched to the direction Zoro is swinging to, are you serious?



King was dive-bombing Zoro and then continued on with the momentum of his flight, at best Zoro slightly deflected his trajectory; Zoro's not even on the offensive in the panel you posted. Completely different ballgame then Zoro getting blasted away huffing and puffing from the force of King's blows through his block. 



TrolonoaZoro said:


> Then you have the gonads to post Zoro having issues with enma, distracted by his thought and BEING MID AIR RECOVERING A SWORD. To make a point about power deficit.



Actually I stated that specific instance was excusable given the circumstances; I posted it to make a point about your double standards regarding Big Mom's PIS to King's PIS which you continue to dance around addressing.



TrolonoaZoro said:


> Meanwhile Zoro parries King with his head, and clashes evenly when it's singular attacks. Including beak attack above that you want to sell as "flying" lmao.
> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> ...



Those are a few, it doesn't discount the multiple consistent showings of him failing and getting launched afterwards, and Zoro still isn't overpowering King in any of those samples you've shown.

There is a point in the battle where King's mask gets damaged and he begins actually fighting more seriously, which is commented on by the onlookers.

*Spoiler*: __ 








If you'll notice, all the panels you posted of Zoro being able to block King come from before this moment where he gets angry and starts fighting at a higher level. Once King stops holding back we notice a massive shift in how well Zoro is able to handle his offense. 



TrolonoaZoro said:


> BIG MOM FIGHT
> 
> Yeah, Law couldn't have attack her from the front because he always needed an external element to create an opening. Irrelevant how you're trying to sell that as a non-defeat, though. The point is that Kid wasn't eating her hits, lmao.



Kid ate that Mama Raid while vulnerable and defenseless from Hawkins. Big Mom grinning isn't an argument against that my dude. For full disclosure, here is a list of attacks Kid took from Big Mom.

-Heavenly Bon Bons
-Tenjin
-Big Mom haymaker
-Fulgora
-Stabbed through by Killer
-Multiple Headbutts from Hawkins
-Mama Raid
-Ikoku Sovereignty (mitigated by Punk Rotten)
-Brutal beatdown by Bigger Mom + homies
-3000 Leagues of Misery

Here is a list of attacks Zoro took from King that he did not block with his swords.

-Headbutt
-Explosion
-Deep Pride Stake
-Kicked back to the island

Of those attacks DPS barely grazed him and the explosion he claimed would have killed him if he was one-second later on his haki.



TrolonoaZoro said:


> Right, awaken mode includes 3 attacks Corno dio, steel beams crashing into her and Lasers.  So when you say "all" it's a little ridiculous that it is only 3 attacks. Which accomplish breaking her bone with the help of Law's internal tech, beams crashing into her AFTER Law's internally damaging tech and pushing her down a hole AFTER Law internally damages her.
> "All" is kinda wild since they're specific techniques in very specific context of she being previously soften up.



All is an accurate term because it's what all of his attacks did after Killer allowed him to start fighting back. Not sure what you're hoping to accomplish by crying about pointless semantics. How exactly does this benefit your case? Also Kid's Awakening is to assign magnetism to other people or objects, his Punk Corna Dio and Damned Punk seem like just traditional attacks to me. 

A lot of what his Awakening offered was utility/hax based which not even Big Mom could resist despite her powerful haki defenses.



TrolonoaZoro said:


> Attacking Kid while he's distracted by Hawkins' headache is great. Standing like an idiot after the fact it's not.
> The conversation exist within the context of King's fighting style vs Big Mom. It's not at all similar to perform ONE ATTACK, and then grin. To performing a combo. There is no way around it.  One is a more serious fighter. That's the way it was presented, it is not debatable. Not even if you somehow count King's tech as a bunch of individual techniques lmao.



The scene cuts away from that, but it's foolish to assume Big Mom just stopped fighting them when that scene was illustrated quite clearly that she was taking advantage of the situation and their in the middle of being attacked when we look back. Big Mom generally was throwing out combos against the two; the next time we cut back she throws an Ikkoku sovereignty at Kid and attempts a follow-up that gets interrupted. That beatdown she was giving Kid and Law were multiple consecutive attacks. The Maser saber she sliced through the bull and was in the midst of a follow-up but Kid beat her to the punch. The end phases of the fight she didn't have much chance to be dishing out chains of attacks because Kid and Law kept her on a constant defensive. 

There was one instance where Big Mom turned around falsely assuming she won, but that was leveled out by Kid and Law then allowing BM to recover from their counterattack as they sat around bickering with each-other for a lengthy amount of time, and it doesn't take away from their durability feats of bouncing back from all that damage she had just unleashed on them regardless. 



TrolonoaZoro said:


> Lmao, Acoc Zoro disappears Kid. Don't do this to yourself.
> Kid has to show us a technique better than island long Dragon Blazer before we introduce Acoc hits into the mix, don't destroy your argument so quickly, dude.



Am I supposed to be intimidated by this or something? You've once again failed to present an argument here, probably because you don't have one. I've already laid out his aCoC feats and there's nothing groundbreaking in lieu of Kid and Law's feats against BM, which is probably why you're pulling the _"I-I'm warning you"_ stint here instead of actually bringing something tangible to the table.

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 2


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## bil02 (Aug 31, 2022)

Tbh the only real stat Kid showed above Zoro when fighting Bm was Durability and Stamina in his Awakening state.

The Bm fight is also always passed off as a 1vs 1 when it was a 2vs1 with awakening attacks being always landed through mutual distractions of the partners.

I seem to recall rooftop 5 being called fanservice by many here as according to them Luffy was mostly the one on the receiving end of the yonkou attacks while others landed attacks through his openings.
Going with the same logic you guys used with rooftop 5,how is Kid and Law vs Bm any different?
It doesn't represent a 1vs1 fight at all.

Now obviously Bigger mom beats more than 2 King level fighters but we ignore ;

1)She had Law and Kid white-eyed on the ground with their crews begging her and buying them time,something Zoro didn't have the luxury of in his solo fight against king.

2)Zoro actually got a powerup from his rooftop fight against Kaido.
Recall Kaido questioned whether Zoro had coc,not that he used Coc coating with Ashura or anything.
It's anyone's guess what kaido meant with his Coc line but in the very same chapter,we see clearly that the visuals for coc coating are very different from what Ashura Zoro did.

With the above 2 points,I can realistically reach the conclusion that Zoro could have potentially fought BM with Law as good as Kid did and would've only been limited by King of hell mode stamina,and someone can even argue Zoro wouldn't have needed to go all out with his Haki when having a partner for follow-up attacks.


Kid was instrumental in beating the far stronger character than king and should be given the benefit of the doubt due to that achievement,sure,but his on-panel feats aren't something we can call non-replicable by Zoro.

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## TrolonoaZoro (Aug 31, 2022)

Great Potato said:


> I mentioned that King was wantonly spamming them around, but Zoro himself only took one of the stray slashes. The rest were spread all over the place without rhyme or reason which is why they were hitting the grunts, Queen, and random walls not anywhere close to Zoro.


Right, let me get this straight.
We have a 9 panel sequence.

Establishing shot:
Panel 1:  introduces MULTIPLE air slashes going everywhere in the battlefield, collateral.
Point is King's wild bombardment.

Insert shots
Panel 2: A wall after a singular air slash hit it.
Panel 3: A wall with 3 different air slashes hitting it simultaneously
Point is concentration of the attack

Medium Shot
Panel 4: Zoro blocking an air slash
Zoro relative to the barrage of attack, blocking them.

Extreme Close up
Panel 5: King's eye
Obviously King concentrating

Full shot:
Panel 6: King facing a particular direction and sending multiple air slashes
King releasing a concentrated in one direction barrage of attack

Panel 7: Zoro finally being sent flying
Zoro's reaction

Panel 8: Franky POV of Zoro
Panel 9: Franky's reaction


So you're telling me that the delay effect of Zoro being sent flying between panel 4 and 7 is completely irrelevant and recreational from Oda's part?
You know, where King is shown to focus and releasing multiple more attacks?

Panel 4 is Zoro being hit, and the reason he's flying in panel 7?

Then 2 meme shots of king, because why not?

Reactions: Like 1 | Dislike 1


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## Wh1p (Jan 1, 2023)



Reactions: Funny 10 | Winner 1


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jan 1, 2023)

Midd wins this one


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## Piecesis (Jan 1, 2023)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> Midd wins this one


It's only downhill for them from here. When Kidd outshines Zolo in elbaf the copium levels will overload.

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## Wh1p (Jan 1, 2023)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> Midd wins this one


Ain't you the guy who said law has better haki than zoro

Reactions: Funny 5


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## Soba (Jan 2, 2023)

Proof that the Region is reading a whole other manga       



Wh1p said:


> Ain't you the guy who said law has better haki than zoro


Stronger, not better mastery. Law has stronger Haki but Zoro has better mastery

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## GreenEggsAHam (Jan 2, 2023)

zoro might not crack top 5 next gen strongest
luffy,law,kidd,sabo, koby

Reactions: Optimistic 3


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## Soba (Jan 2, 2023)

GreenEggsAHam said:


> zoro might not crack top 5 next gen strongest
> luffy,law,kidd,sabo, koby


You forgot Smoker, Momo and Prime Kata


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## Wh1p (Jan 2, 2023)

Soba said:


> Proof that the Region is reading a whole other manga
> 
> 
> Stronger, not better mastery. Law has stronger Haki but Zoro has better mastery


THE COPIUM

Reactions: Like 1


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## Perrin (Jan 2, 2023)

Kidd, he was shown to share Luffy’s extreme strength in udon.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 1


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## Pimp of Pimps (Jan 2, 2023)

This bet doesn’t make sense, Oda is always going to leave these things at least somewhat ambiguous especially when it comes to characters he likes/favors such as Zoro.

Reactions: Like 5


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## Perrin (Jan 2, 2023)

Pimp of Pimps said:


> This bet doesn’t make sense, Oda is always going to leave these things at least somewhat ambiguous especially when it comes to characters he likes/favors such as Zoro.


Beast stated at the start it was a bet for his account determined by the outcome of this poll.
More people voted zoro which is why he deleted his account.


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## GreenEggsAHam (Jan 2, 2023)

Pimp of Pimps said:


> Oda is always going to leave these things at least somewhat ambiguous especially when it comes to characters he likes/favors such as Zoro.


What's ambiguous?

1/3 of the captain trio
3bil bounty
faced big mom while zoro faced ing.

Then you see law facing bb, lol he can like zoro but he knows when it's time for logical reasoning.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jan 2, 2023)

Kidd wins


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## Incognitos (Jan 2, 2023)

Perrin said:


> Beast stated at the start it was a bet for his account determined by the outcome of this poll.
> More people voted zoro which is why he deleted his account.


This poll was made before wano. Current polls almost always have kid at the lead, especially larger ones.  Can't remember the last one zoro won, had to be before wano ended.


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## TheWiggian (Jan 2, 2023)

Kid lost, I was against the acc ban from the start since I didn't want Beast gone.

Reactions: Friendly 1


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## Quipchaque (Jan 2, 2023)

Soba said:


> Proof that the Region is reading a whole other manga



It's funny how that seems to genuinely surprise you after 2 years.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 1


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## Pimp of Pimps (Jan 2, 2023)

GreenEggsAHam said:


> What's ambiguous?
> 
> 1/3 of the captain trio
> 3bil bounty
> ...


Doesn't really matter that Kidd is part of the captain trio, because Zoro has always been unique as a first mate in that he has been comparable to his captain. 

Kidd has a bigger bounty because he is a captain whereas Zoro is just a first mate. Bounties are not power levels. 

Zoro will always ultimately face the number two, even if he can face the main baddie as well, just because of his position in the crew. First mates face first mates. 

I'm not saying it's 100% set in stone that Zoro is equal to or stronger than Kidd, but the opposite is true as well. Zoro has always been unique in this regard.

Reactions: Like 2


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## GreenEggsAHam (Jan 2, 2023)

Pimp of Pimps said:


> Doesn't really matter that Kidd is part of the captain trio, because Zoro has always been unique as a first mate in that he has been comparable to his captain.


zoro is nowhere comprable to his captain this could've been applied pre-ts but not anymore.

luffy is in a league of his own and following that are law,kidd with zoro being a step behind if you couldn't see that during wano and now with law fighting bb, well idk.


Pimp of Pimps said:


> I'm not saying it's 100% set in stone that Zoro is equal to or stronger than Kidd, but the opposite is true as well. Zoro has always been unique in this regard.


Well yeah just like it's not 100% see in stone luffy is stronger then let's say greenbull


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## Pimp of Pimps (Jan 2, 2023)

GreenEggsAHam said:


> zoro is nowhere comprable to his captain this could've been applied pre-ts but not anymore.
> 
> luffy is in a league of his own and following that are law,kidd with zoro being a step behind if you couldn't see that during wano and now with law fighting bb, well idk.
> 
> Well yeah just like it's not 100% see in stone luffy is stronger then let's say greenbull


There's no reason to think their equality applied before the skip and not after. Nothing about the timeskip gave Luffy an inherent advantage in terms of growth over Zoro. 

Just seems like that because Oda always gives the most exposure to Luffy, but if you read the story there are hints littered throughout on Zoro's status. That's why judging strengh based purely on feats doesn't work. 

Luffy isn't stronger than Greenbull. Very unlikely.

Reactions: Like 2


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## GreenEggsAHam (Jan 2, 2023)

Pimp of Pimps said:


> There's no reason to think their equality applied before the skip and not after. Nothing about the timeskip gave Luffy an inherent advantage in terms of growth over Zoro.
> 
> Just seems like that because Oda always gives the most exposure to Luffy, but if you read the story there are hints littered throughout on Zoro's status. That's why judging strengh based purely on feats doesn't work.


Luffy beats kaido
zoro beats king

zoro comp is sanji

luffy beat kaido he's stronger then gb, I thought you were playing around but luffy vs zoro is legitimately a low to mid-diff for kaku equal.


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## Piecesis (Jan 2, 2023)

Pimp of Pimps said:


> There's no reason to think their equality applied before the skip and not after. Nothing about the timeskip gave Luffy an inherent advantage in terms of growth over Zoro.
> 
> Just seems like that because Oda always gives the most exposure to Luffy, but if you read the story there are hints littered throughout on Zoro's status. That's why judging strengh based purely on feats doesn't work.


Wait you mean the guy that beat Doflamingo isn't significantly above Zoro?

Zoro with every citizen of dressrosa failed to stop bird plotcage yet we're supposed to believe they had the same growth? 

Even if we did assume they had same growth rate, luffy pulled so far ahead of his crew when he faced Lucci for the first time and it was implied that if luffy lost, his whole crew would have died to lucci. Which means Zoro would still be signifcantly below luffy unless Zoro had more growth than luffy, is that what you're implying?


Pimp of Pimps said:


> Luffy isn't stronger than Greenbull. Very unlikely.


How is the guy that defeated Kaido be inferior to the guy that admitted inferiorty to Kaido. I want to understand

Reactions: Agree 3


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## Pimp of Pimps (Jan 2, 2023)

GreenEggsAHam said:


> Luffy beats kaido
> zoro beats king
> 
> zoro comp is sanji
> ...


Luffy isn't stronger than Kaido.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Pimp of Pimps (Jan 2, 2023)

Piecesis said:


> Wait you mean the guy that beat Doflamingo isn't significantly above Zoro?
> 
> Zoro with every citizen of dressrosa failed to stop bird plotcage yet we're supposed to believe they had the same growth?
> 
> ...


Not sure what beating Doflamingo has to do with anything. Luffy couldn't have beaten doflamingo without help and Zoro ate Pica alive. 

Luffy pulls ahead of Zoro at times and Zoro always catches up because he is training 24/7 and Luffy isn't. 

Luffy isn't stronger than Kaido and would lose to him in a 'fair' one on one.

Reactions: Like 1


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## GreenEggsAHam (Jan 2, 2023)

Pimp of Pimps said:


> Luffy isn't stronger than Kaido.


zoro didn't beat king he had help from macro, sanji 


narrator, kaido admitted luffy beating him, you can push an agenda but cmon.


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## Pimp of Pimps (Jan 2, 2023)

GreenEggsAHam said:


> zoro didn't beat king he had help from macro, sanji
> 
> 
> narrator, kaido admitted luffy beating him, you can push an agenda but cmon.


Okay, never said Zoro was necessarily stronger than King either. Although he likely is. 

Yes, Luffy won. No one is disputing that. He still isn't stronger than Kaido.

Reactions: Like 3


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## Piecesis (Jan 2, 2023)

Pimp of Pimps said:


> Not sure what beating Doflamingo has to do with anything. Luffy couldn't have beaten doflamingo without help and Zoro ate Pica alive.
> 
> Luffy pulls ahead of Zoro at times and Zoro always catches up because he is training 24/7 and Luffy isn't.
> 
> Luffy isn't stronger than Kaido and would lose to him in a 'fair' one on one.


This doesn't make sense. Luffy has always been far ahead of Zoro, show me an example of Zoro being capable of defeating Luffy's opponents. 

Luffy's strongest attack > Kaido's strongest attack. Would Kaido stand a better chance had he dodged luffy's bajrang gun? Perhaps but the manga is very simple, Luffy beat Kaido. Unless you think Kaido is going to extreme diff Greenbull this shouldn't even be a point of contention.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## GreenEggsAHam (Jan 2, 2023)

Pimp of Pimps said:


> Okay, never said Zoro was necessarily stronger than King either. Although he likely is.
> 
> Yes, Luffy won. No one is disputing that. He still isn't stronger than Kaido.


Oh ok after reading this, I think im knowing how you read the story, so fair.

Reactions: Friendly 1


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## Pimp of Pimps (Jan 2, 2023)

Piecesis said:


> This doesn't make sense. Luffy has always been far ahead of Zoro, show me an example of Zoro being capable of defeating Luffy's opponents.
> 
> Luffy's strongest attack > Kaido's strongest attack. Would Kaido stand a better chance had he dodged luffy's bajrang gun? Perhaps but the manga is very simple, Luffy beat Kaido. Unless you think Kaido is going to extreme diff Greenbull this shouldn't even be a point of contention.


Luffy and Zoro have always been equals.

Luffy won because others wore Kaido down before, stalled him etc. I don't see an indication that Luffy would bear a fresh Kaidou in a one on one with zero outside help.

Reactions: Like 1 | Tier Specialist 2


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## Piecesis (Jan 2, 2023)

Pimp of Pimps said:


> Luffy and Zoro have always been equals.
> 
> Luffy won because others wore Kaido down before, stalled him etc. I don't see an indication that Luffy would bear a fresh Kaidou in a one on one with zero outside help.


Ah, gotcha okay. Good to know. Zoro would have beaten Kaido too if they traded places.

Reactions: Funny 6


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## Pimp of Pimps (Jan 2, 2023)

Piecesis said:


> Ah, gotcha okay. Good to know. Zoro would have beaten Kaido too if they traded places.


Nah, Luffy is stronger right now. But it won’t last.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Piecesis (Jan 2, 2023)

I find it amusing how the story shows us a miniscule amount of a gap with Zoro and Sanji but Zoro fans can't accept that Sanji is his near equal meanwhile Luffy's opponents far exceed both Zoro and Sanjis yet Zoro fans want him to be equal to luffy. 

In that case since the story doesn't show much of a gap between Zoro and Sanji and Zoro is luffy's equal.

Luffy, Zoro and Sanji are all equals. Rejoice Sanjisisters

Reactions: Winner 3 | Tier Specialist 3


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## Pimp of Pimps (Jan 2, 2023)

Piecesis said:


> I find it amusing how the story shows us a miniscule amount of a gap with Zoro and Sanji but Zoro fans can't accept that Sanji is his near equal meanwhile Luffy's opponents far exceed both Zoro and Sanjis yet Zoro fans want him to be equal to luffy.
> 
> In that case since the story doesn't show much of a gap between Zoro and Sanji and Zoro is luffy's equal.
> 
> Luffy, Zoro and Sanji are all equals. Rejoice Sanjisisters


Zoro and Sanji is a gag rivalry.

Oda himself in the distant past has said Zoro and Luffy are equals. Zoro takes on weaker opponents but he also has an easier time. Comments are always made about how Zoro is exceptional for a first mate. He’s always training. And so on. He got a teacher stronger than Luffy’s teacher.

You’ll see eventually.

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## Piecesis (Jan 2, 2023)

Pimp of Pimps said:


> Zoro and Sanji is a gag rivalry.
> 
> Oda himself in the distant past has said Zoro and Luffy are equals. Zoro takes on weaker opponents but he also has an easier time. Comments are always made about how Zoro is exceptional for a first mate. He’s always training. And so on. He got a teacher stronger than Luffy’s teacher.
> 
> You’ll see eventually.


Nah sorry bro. The manga > your headcanon. 

The closest thing in the story we had to powerscaling was Doriki. Lucci. 4000 Kaku 2200 Jabura 2180. 

Since Zoro is Luffy's near Equal. So is Sanji. 

Sanji has an easier time with his opponents than Zoro does. Mr 1 was harder for Zoro than Mr 2 was for Sanji. 

Jabura was easier for Sanji than Kaku was for Zoro. 

Queen was easier for Sanji than King was for Zoro.  And the list goes on.

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## Pimp of Pimps (Jan 2, 2023)

Piecesis said:


> Nah sorry bro. The manga > your headcanon.
> 
> The closest thing in the story we had to powerscaling was Doriki. Lucci. 4000 Kaku 2200 Jabura 2180.
> 
> ...


Zoro = Luffy is perfectly consistent with the manga. Also Oda has stated so himself in the past iirc. 

Not sure how comparing Kaku and Jabura helps your case since Kaku was stronger than Jabura by a fair bit.

Sanji having easier fights is relevant how again?

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## Piecesis (Jan 2, 2023)

Pimp of Pimps said:


> Zoro = Luffy is perfectly consistent with the manga. Also Oda has stated so himself in the past iirc.


Show me the manga panels. I await.


Pimp of Pimps said:


> Not sure how comparing Kaku and Jabura helps your case since Kaku was stronger than Jabura by a fair bit.
> 
> Sanji having easier fights is relevant how again?


Reread again. You claimed that Zoro has an easier time with his opponents than Luffy does, the same applies to Sanji. 

Kaku had 20 doriki above Jabura. Lucci had 1800 above Kaku. So if you're claiming that Zoro is Luffy's equal then so is Sanji. 

It's fairly simple, not hard to grasp.

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## Pimp of Pimps (Jan 2, 2023)

Piecesis said:


> Show me the manga panels. I await.
> 
> Reread again. You claimed that Zoro has an easier time with his opponents than Luffy does, the same applies to Sanji.
> 
> ...


No, I'm not going to show you the manga panels. Manga panels only make sense for things that are explicitly shown or said. I never argued it was explicitly shown that Luffy = Zoro, but that it's the most logical conclusion.

It doesn't apply to Sanji. Most crewmembers are relatively fine after their fights, Zoro and Sanji, included. They just need rest later but they can usually run around etc. Luffy usually gets knocked out for days.

Your argument makes zero sense. I never claimed Zoro is Luffy's equal based on how strong Zoro's and Sanji's enemies are. 

There are some very good arguments for Luffy being stronger, but you are specifically choosing the worst ones one can possibly choose.

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## Unresponsive (Jan 2, 2023)

Pimp of Pimps said:


> Zoro and Sanji is a gag rivalry.


I just don't understand.
What does a gag rivalry mean? It seems to imply that it only happens in gag scenes which is false.

Why is Whitebeards and Rogers Rivalry something that isn't a gag rivalry
But Sanjis and Zoros isn't even though it's implied numerous times and showcased on multiple different occasions to be the real thing.

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## Piecesis (Jan 2, 2023)

Pimp of Pimps said:


> No, I'm not going to show you the manga panels. Manga panels only make sense for things that are explicitly shown or said. I never argued it was explicitly shown that Luffy = Zoro, but that it's the most logical conclusion.
> 
> It doesn't apply to Sanji. Most crewmembers are relatively fine after their fights, Zoro and Sanji, included. They just need rest later but they can usually run around etc. Luffy usually gets knocked out for days.
> 
> ...


Okay so what I got from this is, ignore manga panels that don't fit with your agenda, don't bring any proof that Luffy = Zoro because there isn't any. If that's all you got it's best to concede. 

The difference between what I said and what you have is that I've stated canonical manga events that have occured which places Sanji being near Equal to Zoro but you cannot give me one panel of Zoro being stated near equal to luffy. Interesting indeed. 

They're called the Monster Trio, not Monster Duo. Unless you bring me evidence that supports your case then this is a pointless discussion.

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## Pimp of Pimps (Jan 2, 2023)

Unresponsive said:


> I just don't understand.
> What does a gag rivalry mean? It seems to imply that it only happens in gag scenes which is false.
> 
> Why is Whitebeards and Rogers Rivalry something that isn't a gag rivalry
> But Sanjis and Zoros isn't even though it's implied numerous times and showcased on multiple different occasions to be the real thing.


Zoro is for certain stronger than Sanji, the rivalry is just for comedic effect and because it would be bad form to have the captain ot look better than the rest. 

Roger and Whitebeard weren't for comedic effect.

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## Pimp of Pimps (Jan 2, 2023)

Piecesis said:


> Okay so what I got from this is, ignore manga panels that don't fit with your agenda, don't bring any proof that Luffy = Zoro because there isn't any. If that's all you got it's best to concede.
> 
> The difference between what I said and what you have is that I've stated canonical manga events that have occured which places Sanji being near Equal to Zoro but you cannot give me one panel of Zoro being stated near equal to luffy. Interesting indeed.
> 
> They're called the Monster Trio, not Monster Duo. Unless you bring me evidence that supports your case then this is a pointless discussion.


That's just a dishonest way of debating. If something can be proven with just a panel, fine. But there are plenty of things or ideas that are a result of many aspects of the story put together.

There are no events that place Sanji equal to Zoro. There are actually no outright events that place Zoro equal to Luffy either, but it's a reasonable conclusion based on what we know. 

They are called the monster trio because they are heads and tails above the other members and the main fighters of the crew. How is that relevant to the topic at hand?

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## Unresponsive (Jan 2, 2023)

Pimp of Pimps said:


> Zoro is for certain stronger than Sanji, the rivalry is just for comedic effect and because it would be bad form to have the captain ot look better than the rest.
> 
> Roger and Whitebeard weren't for comedic effect.


As you said "being rivals doesn't mean equals". Just because one is stronger doesn't automatically mean the other one is not a rival anymore. Otherwise this same standard would be held against Garp, Kaido and Big moms rivalry, and The WG trio rivalry.

Comedic effect how? If a couple of gags mean their rivalry doesn't exist anymore, then this standard is held against everyone and absolutely no one not even Roger and Whitebeard would qualify as rivals.

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## Pimp of Pimps (Jan 2, 2023)

Unresponsive said:


> As you said "being rivals doesn't mean equals". Just because one is stronger doesn't automatically mean the other one is not a rival anymore. Otherwise this same standard would be held against Garp, Kaido and Big moms rivalry, and The WG trio rivalry.
> 
> Comedic effect how? If a couple of gags mean their rivalry doesn't exist anymore, then this standard is held against everyone and absolutely no one not even Roger and Whitebeard would qualify as rivals.


Okay, that's fair enough.

Because Zoro has always been put on a pedestal above anyone else. You think Oda would show Sanji clashing equally with Sanji in Whiskey Peak? Never. Every single arc almost someone mentions how it's unbelievable Zoro is working under Luffy. Sanji never gets that treatment. Zoro is often portrayed as a beast in a way Sanji never is. IE - the portrayal of Zoro saving Luffy from Kaido and so on.

Not saying it's set in stone, but Luffy = Zoro can be legit argued. No such thing can be argued for Sanji and Zoro, or even close to it.

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## Piecesis (Jan 2, 2023)

Pimp of Pimps said:


> That's just a dishonest way of debating. If something can be proven with just a panel, fine. But there are plenty of things or ideas that are a result of many aspects of the story put together.
> 
> There are no events that place Sanji equal to Zoro. There are actually no outright events that place Zoro equal to Luffy either, but it's a reasonable conclusion based on what we know.
> 
> They are called the monster trio because they are heads and tails above the other members and the main fighters of the crew. How is that relevant to the topic at hand?


The only thing dishonest about this debate is you ignoring that the one power system in One piece that we can go off from that has Sanji and Zoro extremely close in numbers while Luffy is way ahead.

If you can make the argument that Luffy and Zoro are close then so is Sanji. You don't get to pick and choose.

Not only are they called the monster trio the story also tells us that they're the wings of the pirate king (luffy). It's relevant because it's a discussion about portrayal. They are portrayed equally with Zoro having a slight edge and luffy having a massive lead over both.

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## Pimp of Pimps (Jan 2, 2023)

Piecesis said:


> The only thing dishonest about this debate is you ignoring that the one power system in One piece that we can go off from that has Sanji and Zoro extreme close in numbers while Luffy is way ahead.
> 
> If you can make the argument that Luffy and Zoro are close then so is Sanji. You don't get to pick and choose.
> 
> Not only are they called the monster trio the story also tells us that they're the wings of the pirate king (luffy). It's relevant because it's a discussion about portrayal. They are portrayed equally with Zoro having a slight edge and luffy having a massive lead over both.


Ah, if that was your point then what's the issue? I think Luffy was stronger than them at that point due to the Gears. The timeskip equalized them again. 

We aren't talking about close though, we are talking about equal. At the very least, one has to acknowledge Zoro consistently gets portrayal above what Snji gets. 

Sanji and Zoro are definitely not equal. There are no comments about how it's amazing Luffy has someone like Sanji under him, Zoro gets those constantly.

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## Piecesis (Jan 2, 2023)

Pimp of Pimps said:


> Ah, if that was your point then what's the issue? I think Luffy was stronger than them at that point due to the Gears. The timeskip equalized them again.
> 
> We aren't talking about close though, we are talking about equal. At the very least, one has to acknowledge Zoro consistently gets portrayal above what Snji gets.
> 
> Sanji and Zoro are definitely not equal. There are no comments about how it's amazing Luffy has someone like Sanji under him, Zoro gets those constantly.


You're misunderstanding. I'm talking from the POV of if you can say Zoro is Luffy's Equal then so is Sanji. 

Because the gap between luffy and Zoro is vastly bigger than the gap of portrayal of Sanji and Zoro, that's the main point.


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## Pimp of Pimps (Jan 2, 2023)

Piecesis said:


> You're misunderstanding. I'm talking from the POV of if you can say Zoro is Luffy's Equal then so is Sanji.
> 
> Because the gap between luffy and Zoro is vastly bigger than the gap of portrayal of Sanji and Zoro, that's the main point.


Zoro consistently gets portrayal that puts him above Sanji. So no I don’t agree with that. Zoro is very clearly a good deal stronger than Sanji.

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## Piecesis (Jan 2, 2023)

Pimp of Pimps said:


> Zoro consistently gets portrayal that puts him above Sanji. So no I don’t agree with that. Zoro is very clearly a good deal stronger than Sanji.


You can easily make that argument with luffy. 

You can also make the argument Sanji is far more durable and faster than Zoro. Zoro is stronger and has more endurance than Sanji. 

But luffy is above both in every facet.


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## Pimp of Pimps (Jan 2, 2023)

You absolutely cannot make the argument Sanji is more durable and faster than Zoro.

Luffy does get better portrayal, but I personally think it balances out with Zoro usually having an easier time.


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## Piecesis (Jan 2, 2023)

Pimp of Pimps said:


> You absolutely cannot make the argument Sanji is more durable and faster than Zoro.
> 
> Luffy does get better portrayal, but I personally think it balances out with Zoro usually having an easier time.


That right there is cope. 

Queen's sword is not breaking on Zoro's natural body. Zoro can't move so fast he goes invisble to queen either.


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## Pimp of Pimps (Jan 2, 2023)

Piecesis said:


> That right there is cope.
> 
> Queen's sword is not breaking on Zoro's natural body. Zoro can't move so fast he goes invisble to queen either.


Hardness is an aspect of durability, but it's not the same thing. Besides, why are we talking only about natural hardness? In a fight, Zoro will utilize Haki of course. 

And I'm not sure why Zoro won't be able to move faster than Queen can see?


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## Piecesis (Jan 2, 2023)

Pimp of Pimps said:


> Hardness is an aspect of durability, but it's not the same thing. Besides, why are we talking only about natural hardness? In a fight, Zoro will utilize Haki of course.
> 
> And I'm not sure why Zoro won't be able to move faster than Queen can see?


Stop splitting hairs. Sanji is naturally more durable than Zoro, Zoro can take more punishment, it's not hard to grasp. Sanji is faster than Zoro. Sanji's whole thing is fighting with his legs, it logically follows feats from his legs will be better. 

It would be like me arguing Sanji is a better swordsman than Zoro because he can cook and cut with more precision than Zoro can. It's dumb, stop it. 

Zoro has never shown to be a speedster that's why.


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## Pimp of Pimps (Jan 2, 2023)

Piecesis said:


> Stop splitting hairs. Sanji is naturally more durable than Zoro, Zoro can take more punishment, it's not hard to grasp. Sanji is faster than Zoro. Sanji's whole thing is fighting with his legs, it logically follows feats from his legs will be better.
> 
> It would be like me arguing Sanji is a better swordsman than Zoro because he can cook and cut with more precision than Zoro can. It's dumb, stop it.
> 
> Zoro has never shown to be a speedster that's why.


I'm not splitting hairs, they are different words with different meanings lol. But anyway, so long as we know what the other means it doesn't matter. 

Sanji might have a naturally harder body, but that doesn't matter since both will obviously use CoA in a fight. Overall I'd say Zoro is more durable and resilient, even if Sanji has a naturally harder body.

Sanji fighting with his legs doesn't make him faster than Zoro necessarily. Speed is probably more important for Sanji than it is for Zoro, but that in of itself doesn't mean much. 

Again, Sanji could be faster than Zoro etc I just don't see how any of those things are conclusively proven. They aren't. And either way, the main point I'm making is Zoro is very clearly stronger than Sanji by a decent margin.


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## Piecesis (Jan 2, 2023)

Pimp of Pimps said:


> I'm not splitting hairs, they are different words with different meanings lol. But anyway, so long as we know what the other means it doesn't matter.
> 
> Sanji might have a naturally harder body, but that doesn't matter since both will obviously use CoA in a fight. Overall I'd say Zoro is more durable and resilient, even if Sanji has a naturally harder body.
> 
> ...


You are and there's no evidence of Zoro being more durable. CoA on a more durable body is better than CoA on a less durable body. 

Sanji has better feats of being faster therefore he is faster that's all that matters. Either way it doesn't matter in the overall grand scheme of things, this is just to illustrate you can make an argument of Sanji being better than Zoro in some aspects. 

While you won't find any aspect of Zoro being above or equal to Luffy. Luffy will always be stronger, faster and more durable than Zoro and Sanji.


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## Unresponsive (Jan 2, 2023)

Pimp of Pimps said:


> Okay, that's fair enough.
> 
> Because Zoro has always been put on a pedestal above anyone else. You think Oda would show Sanji clashing equally with Sanji in Whiskey Peak? Never. Every single arc almost someone mentions how it's unbelievable Zoro is working under Luffy. Sanji never gets that treatment. Zoro is often portrayed as a beast in a way Sanji never is. IE - the portrayal of Zoro saving Luffy from Kaido and so on.
> 
> Not saying it's set in stone, but Luffy = Zoro can be legit argued. No such thing can be argued for Sanji and Zoro, or even close to it.


That doesn't prove that they do not have a rivalry...

Luffy in whiskey peak-alabasta
Fights Crocodile and defeats him while struggling
Zoro fights Mr 1 but defeats him while struggling even though the attacks were that deep according to him.

Well it's because Zoro is seen as badass and is always fighting people while Sanji is not.
But when Sanji actually shows people his skills whether it's cooking, or fighting he gets the same treatment as well.

Just because Zoro get's a certain treatment while Sanji doesn't, doesn't disqualify them from being rivals.
Sanji and Zoro literally cover each other's weaknesses and are shown to be equals(overall).
If Sanji and Zoro were to fight it would be an extreme diff fight. 

While Luffy=Zoro can be argued, Sanji=Zoro can also be argued. If you believe that someone such as Gear 5 Luffy with 3 types of advanced haki, multiple hax, and crazy abilities can be compared to Zoro, then there should be absolutely 0 reason why Sanji who is portrayed as Zoros equal(overall) cannot be acknowledged as his equal.

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## Pimp of Pimps (Jan 2, 2023)

Piecesis said:


> You are and there's no evidence of Zoro being more durable. CoA on a more durable body is better than CoA on a less durable body.
> 
> Sanji has better feats of being faster therefore he is faster that's all that matters. Either way it doesn't matter in the overall grand scheme of things, this is just to illustrate you can make an argument of Sanji being better than Zoro in some aspects.
> 
> While you won't find any aspect of Zoro being above or equal to Luffy. Luffy will always be stronger, faster and more durable than Zoro and Sanji.


I don't need evidence of Zoro being more durable as I you were the one that first made the claim of Sanji being more durable. 

Obviously if two people have equal skill in CoA the one who is naturally more durable would win, but Zoro and Sanji being equal in CoA skill seems like a big assumption.

Feats are a very flawed way of judging who is stronger and better than who. 

That seems like a bit of a circular argument. You are essentially saying Luffy is not equal to Zoro because he is stronger than Zoro.


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## Pimp of Pimps (Jan 2, 2023)

Unresponsive said:


> That doesn't prove that they do not have a rivalry...
> 
> Luffy in whiskey peak-alabasta
> Fights Crocodile and defeats him while struggling
> ...


Right. I assumed you meant a rivalry as equals. You're right, they have a rivalry but I do not think it indicates equality between them or anything close to that. 

But as for portrayal, Zoro always has better portrayal. He is portrayed as someone so strong and fierce people are surprised he chooses to work under Luffy. Which, at the very least, hints strongly as him being very close to Luffy in strength.


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## Unresponsive (Jan 2, 2023)

Pimp of Pimps said:


> Right. I assumed you meant a rivalry as equals. You're right, they have a rivalry but I do not think it indicates equality between them or anything close to that.
> 
> But as for portrayal, Zoro always has better portrayal. He is portrayed as someone so strong and fierce people are surprised he chooses to work under Luffy. Which, at the very least, hints strongly as him being very close to Luffy in strength.


I can agree with you for the most part, but I personally believe overall there is some type of equality.

Yes with better portrayal than sanji
No with it hinting him being very close to Luffy in terms of strength.


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## Piecesis (Jan 2, 2023)

Pimp of Pimps said:


> I don't need evidence of Zoro being more durable as I you were the one that first made the claim of Sanji being more durable.
> 
> Obviously if two people have equal skill in CoA the one who is naturally more durable would win, but Zoro and Sanji being equal in CoA skill seems like a big assumption.
> 
> ...


Great then lets go with your logic then. I'll also throw out all evidence of Zoro being stronger than Sanji because the manga has never stated it. Feats are flawed, anyone who I think is stronger is stronger despite the evidence on screen. 

I swear to god that person that said Zoro fans are reading a different manga was onto something. I at least applaud you for bringing your arguments regardless of how much mental gymnastics you go through to label Zoro equal to Luffy. Unfortunately can't say the same for your fellow regioners.

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## Pimp of Pimps (Jan 2, 2023)

Unresponsive said:


> I can agree with you for the most part, but I personally believe overall there is some type of equality.
> 
> Yes with better portrayal than sanji
> No with it hinting him being very close to Luffy in terms of strength.


So when you have people saying it’s amazing Luffy has someone as strong as Zoro under him, what does indicate if not that people seem to to they are fairly close in power?

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## Pimp of Pimps (Jan 2, 2023)

Piecesis said:


> Great then lets go with your logic then. I'll also throw out all evidence of Zoro being stronger than Sanji because the manga has never stated it. Feats are flawed, anyone who I think is stronger is stronger despite the evidence on screen.
> 
> I swear to god that person that said Zoro fans are reading a different manga was onto something. I at least applaud you for bringing your arguments regardless of how much mental gymnastics you go through to label Zoro equal to Luffy. Unfortunately can't say the same for your fellow regioners.


While feats are important, they are secondary to the narrative being drawn and the portrayal the author gives of the characters. I remember people were at one point arguing that preskip Luffy was close to Garp in strength because Garp drew blood when Luffy punched him.


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## Piecesis (Jan 2, 2023)

Pimp of Pimps said:


> While feats are important, they are secondary to the narrative being drawn and the portrayal the author gives of the characters. I remember people were at one point arguing that preskip Luffy was close to Garp in strength because Garp drew blood when Luffy punched him.


The narrative told me King was Queen's rival during their opening scene, like Zoro and Sanji are. While Jack sees them as big brothers.

The narrative told me that Sanji is Luffy's wing, same as Zoro.

The narrative told me that they're the three strongest members of the strawhat crew.

Doriki's official translation is "powerlevel" and the narrative told me Jabura was near equal to kaku with a 20 point difference. While luffy's oppenent had 1800 point difference to Zoro's opponent.

These are all facts of the story. Go ahead tell me none of these are true.

Since feats are secondary and the narrative is more important. Zoro => Sanji. They're near equals now, the narrative says so.

It's easy to spew garbage, but it's hard to back it up. Go ahead tell me how none of this is relevant to *your* narrative and how all of this means Zoro is Luffy's equal instead.

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## Pimp of Pimps (Jan 2, 2023)

Piecesis said:


> The narrative told me King was Queen's rival during their opening scene, like Zoro and Sanji are. While Jack sees them as big brothers.
> 
> The narrative told me that Sanji is Luffy's wing, same as Zoro.
> 
> ...


You’re just listing listing opinions you have and saying they are ‘the narrative.’ Not sure what you are trying it do, but it isn’t working. If you think fears are the end all be all, then you don’t really understand

I’ve been on forums for a long time now, I’ve had a few misses but most of the stuff I’ve said has been true. Oda follows a specific pattern that he tends not to deviate from too much. 

Like I’ve said before, there are many logical and strong arguments one can make for Luffy being stronger, but you aren’t making them. For example:

- Luffy is the main character, and at the end of the day One Piece is in many ways a typical shounen.
- Zoro doesn’t need to be as strong as Luffy to fulfill his dream to protect the crew.
- Luffy will attain a similar or better level of Haki EoS and also has a powerful DF.

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## PrinceUtopia (Jan 2, 2023)

Piecesis said:


> The narrative told me King was Queen's rival during their opening scene, like Zoro and Sanji are. While Jack sees them as big brothers.
> 
> The narrative told me that Sanji is Luffy's wing, same as Zoro.
> 
> ...


Don't argue with the legion. Zoro and Sanji just beat YC's.

Luffy defeated a Yonkou. 

Anyone arguing Zoro = Luffy is ridiculous.

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## Piecesis (Jan 2, 2023)

Pimp of Pimps said:


> You’re just listing listing opinions you have and saying they are ‘the narrative.’ Not sure what you are trying it do, but it isn’t working. If you think fears are the end all be all, then you don’t really understand


I stated manga facts. Those aren't opinions, these are things that happened in the story. King and Queen bickering is the narrative showing us that parralel of Zoro and Sanji.


Pimp of Pimps said:


> I’ve been on forums for a long time now, I’ve had a few misses but most of the stuff I’ve said has been true. Oda follows a specific pattern that he tends not to deviate from too much.


I'm aware, I've lurked on this site and a lot of sites for a very long time as well. I try not be bias towards any character but I do admit slipping sometimes when it comes to Zoro from the sheer amount of wank the character recieves.


Pimp of Pimps said:


> Like I’ve said before, there are many logical and strong arguments one can make for Luffy being stronger, but you aren’t making them. For example:
> 
> - Luffy is the main character, and at the end of the day One Piece is in many ways a typical shounen.


Let's break this down. I don't have to state luffy being the MC and that's why he'll always be above Zoro, it's pointless because everyone knows, it's better to illustrate the difference in said capabilities they show because that paints a clearer picture imo.


Pimp of Pimps said:


> - Zoro doesn’t need to be as strong as Luffy to fulfill his dream to protect the crew.


I agree but that doesn't mean he won't. There's no telling what the future for the series holds and what Zoro might accomplish in the future, he could as well end up on par with Luffy, but there has never been an indication of said thing currently, that's my point. 

If he so does then that's fine but he hasn't come close.


Pimp of Pimps said:


> - Luffy will attain a similar or better level of Haki EoS and also has a powerful DF.


This is basic knowledge like the one above there's no need to point out his DF superiority or him being the less than handful of characters that developed future sight because all of this is already known. This is why I said he outstats both Zoro and Sanji by a mile. 

For all intents and purposes he's the Yonko and the story shows us how vastly superior the Yonko are to their crewmembers.


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## Unresponsive (Jan 2, 2023)

Pimp of Pimps said:


> So when you have people saying it’s amazing Luffy has someone as strong as Zoro under him, what does indicate if not that people seem to to they are fairly close in power?


Nothing at all, it just indicates that Zoro is a powerful individual. It also doesn't indicate that people perceive him as someone near Luffys level.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Chip Skylark (Jan 2, 2023)

Unresponsive said:


> Nothing at all, it just indicates that Zoro is a powerful individual. It also doesn't indicate that people perceive him as someone near Luffys level.


Right. Not even like people say this when they’re intimately familiar with the extent of both their abilities.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Pimp of Pimps (Jan 2, 2023)

Unresponsive said:


> Nothing at all, it just indicates that Zoro is a powerful individual. It also doesn't indicate that people perceive him as someone near Luffys level.


That’s grasping at straws. The implication is clearly that Zoro is much stronger than most people would expect from Luffy’s first mate. That’s why we never hear this sort of talk about Sanji, despite Sanji being a very impressive individual.

Reactions: Agree 3


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## Pimp of Pimps (Jan 2, 2023)

Chip Skylark said:


> Right. Not even like people say this when they’re intimately familiar with the extent of both their abilities.


That doesn’t matter, because it’s Oda sending a message via a narrative tool.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Unresponsive (Jan 2, 2023)

Pimp of Pimps said:


> That’s grasping at straws. The implication is clearly that Zoro is much stronger than most people would expect from Luffy’s first mate. That’s why we never hear this sort of talk about Sanji, despite Sanji being a very impressive individual.


Yeah that's literally exactly that I said...Zoro is powerful but that doesn't imply that he's somewhat comparable to his captain.

No we don't get this sort of talk because the people who do say this statement never see Sanji fight.


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## Pimp of Pimps (Jan 2, 2023)

Unresponsive said:


> Yeah that's literally exactly that I said...Zoro is powerful but that doesn't imply that he's somewhat comparable to his captain.
> 
> No we don't get this sort of talk because the people who do say this statement never see Sanji fight.


It does imply that though. What is being emphasized isn’t just that Zoro is strong, but that he’s so strong it’s almost strange he’s working under Luffy.

That is also grasping at straws. Oda can easily have someone see Sanji fight and make a similar statement. But in all this time he never has had anyone make such a statement about Sanji.


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## Unresponsive (Jan 2, 2023)

You said "So when you have people saying it’s amazing Luffy has someone as strong as Zoro under him, what does indicate if not that people seem to to they are fairly close in power?"

It just implies he's very powerful like I said before lol, it doesn't indicate that it's strange he's working under Luffy. If it did they would've realized that it must be because Luffy is superior and stronger than Zoro. Which would disprove this statement by you which was "what does indicate if not that people seem to to they are fairly close in power?"


Doffy is acknowledging Sanji as a tough individual. It seems to imply that he sees him as strong too.


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## Nello (Jan 2, 2023)

More people think Zoro is stronger?


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## Nello (Jan 2, 2023)

What is the verdict from @Great Potato 

Only he has the wisdom and authority to settle this matter once and for all


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## Nello (Jan 2, 2023)

Pimp of Pimps said:


> This bet doesn’t make sense, Oda is always going to leave these things at least somewhat ambiguous especially when it comes to characters he likes/favors such as Zoro.


Don't try to pollute my favorite cartoon forum with your disgusting nuance and reason


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## Pimp of Pimps (Jan 2, 2023)

Nello said:


> Don't try to pollute my favorite cartoon forum with your disgusting nuance and reason


My mistake

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Great Potato (Jan 2, 2023)

Nello said:


> What is the verdict from @Great Potato
> 
> Only he has the wisdom and authority to settle this matter once and for all



I support Eustass Kid.



Nello said:


> More people think Zoro is stronger?



This poll started in 2020 so the poll largely reflects people's opinions from the start of the raid. Current polls the pendulum has been swinging favorably for Kid.

Reactions: Like 2 | Informative 2


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## Ushiromiya Battler (Jan 2, 2023)

" Zoro and Luffy are equals, I just don't have the manga backing up my claims!"

 

Fucking disgusting way of debating that blatantly puts headcanon over actual evidence...

This new region guy has offcially set a new low


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## Ushiromiya Battler (Jan 2, 2023)

Zoro and Sanji are the actual rivals. 

It is Luffy and his Monster Trio Jinbe Zoro and Sanji.


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## Pimp of Pimps (Jan 2, 2023)

Unresponsive said:


> You said "So when you have people saying it’s amazing Luffy has someone as strong as Zoro under him, what does indicate if not that people seem to to they are fairly close in power?"
> 
> It just implies he's very powerful like I said before lol, it doesn't indicate that it's strange he's working under Luffy. If it did they would've realized that it must be because Luffy is superior and stronger than Zoro. Which would disprove this statement by you which was "what does indicate if not that people seem to to they are fairly close in power?"
> 
> ...



You're grasping at straws. 

First of all, I'm not sure why you even posted that page. What does Doflamingo saying Sanji is tough prove exactly? 

Second of all, the statements that are made about Zoro clearly indicate he is exceptional for a first mate. Not just that he is strong. I am not saying that it automatically means he is equal to Luffy of course, but it does indicate he is much closer to his captain than is typical of a first mate. That much really can't be denied unless one just chooses to put their fingers in their ears.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Perrin (Jan 2, 2023)

Wow. Bizarre.


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## Pimp of Pimps (Jan 2, 2023)

Piecesis said:


> I stated manga facts. Those aren't opinions, these are things that happened in the story. King and Queen bickering is the narrative showing us that parralel of Zoro and Sanji.


[/QUOTE]

Some are facts, some are just things you are passing off as facts. 



> Let's break this down. I don't have to state luffy being the MC and that's why he'll always be above Zoro, it's pointless because everyone knows, it's better to illustrate the difference in said capabilities they show because that paints a clearer picture imo.



If it's something everybody knows, then that's all the more reason to mention it. 

I already said only relying on feats is a super flawed way of judging powerlevels. 



> I agree but that doesn't mean he won't. There's no telling what the future for the series holds and what Zoro might accomplish in the future, he could as well end up on par with Luffy, but there has never been an indication of said thing currently, that's my point.
> 
> If he so does then that's fine but he hasn't come close.



There are plenty of hints. I don't care if you don't agree, but 



> This is basic knowledge like the one above there's no need to point out his DF superiority or him being the less than handful of characters that developed future sight because all of this is already known. This is why I said he outstats both Zoro and Sanji by a mile.



There's no such thing as DF superiority in the New World. 

Anyway, if these were really things everyone knew and acknowledged it would only make more sense to mention them to drive home your points. So it's weird you don't want to mention them and instead rely on weird arguments that have no basis in the manga. 



> For all intents and purposes he's the Yonko and the story shows us how vastly superior the Yonko are to their crewmembers.



That's a flawed argument, clearly Zoro is exceptional as a first mate and the argument here is that he is the exception. Similar to Rayleigh who was lumped together with Whitebeard as a legend by Garp despite only being a first mate. Something most other Emperor first mates wouldn't quality for.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Winner 1


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## Pimp of Pimps (Jan 2, 2023)

Ushiromiya Battler said:


> Zoro and Sanji are the actual rivals.
> 
> It is Luffy and his Monster Trio Jinbe Zoro and Sanji.



Zoro and Sanji being proper rivals, as in equal or near equal, is a ludicrous statement. Besides comedy or taking out fodder, Zoro's portrayals are almost always heads and tails above Sanji's. No one goes around saying stuff like "Sanji is this strong and he's just a subordinate."

Reactions: Agree 1


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## o0Shinthi0o (Jan 2, 2023)

Oda had a great opportunity to showcase how Zoro is equal to Luffy in Wano ( Zoro's arc ) where there was 2 Yonkou present . Yet , instead of fighting another Yonkou ,Zoro had a extreme diff fight vs a YC1 even after being the only one getting fully magic heal .
And that YC1 along with YC2 got dinner diff by GB casually while being called bozo .
Yea , clearly Oda wants to show us Zoro = Luffy

Reactions: Funny 6


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## Ushiromiya Battler (Jan 2, 2023)

Pimp of Pimps said:


> Zoro and Sanji being proper rivals, as in equal or near equal, is a ludicrous statement. Besides comedy or taking out fodder, Zoro's portrayals are almost always heads and tails above Sanji's. No one goes around saying stuff like "Sanji is this strong and he's just a subordinate."


Sanji = Zoro and I dont need manga panels to prove it.

Oda has also been hinting a lot that Chopper = Zoro and I don't  care if you disagree.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Pimp of Pimps (Jan 2, 2023)

o0Shinthi0o said:


> Oda had a great opportunity to showcase how Zoro is equal to Luffy in Wano ( Zoro's arc ) where there was 2 Yonkou present . Yet , instead of fighting another Yonkou ,Zoro had a extreme diff fight vs a YC1 even after being the only one getting fully magic heal .
> And that YC1 along with YC2 got dinner diff by GM casually while being called bozo .
> Yea , clearly Oda wants to show us Zoro = Luffy


Zoro will always fight the number two because he isn't a captain, even if in some cases he is strong enough to fight the same opponent Luffy or the other Captains do. It's the captains jobs to face the biggest threats. 

Also, Zoro DID fight the Emperors and did very well against Kaido. So not sure what you are trying to get at anyway.


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## Pimp of Pimps (Jan 2, 2023)

Ushiromiya Battler said:


> Sanji = Zoro and I dont need manga panels to prove it.
> 
> Heck now that I think about it, Oda has been hinting that Chopper = Zoro as well


The quality of posters seems to have gone down quite a bit.

Reactions: Winner 3


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## Ushiromiya Battler (Jan 2, 2023)

Pimp of Pimps said:


> The quality of posters seems to have gone down quite a bit.


You tell me


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## Pimp of Pimps (Jan 2, 2023)

Ushiromiya Battler said:


> You are telling me


I don't care about taunts from amateurs, either debate me or don't. Prove to me Zoro and Sanji are closer in strengh than Luffy and Zoro, if that's what you are implying.

Reactions: Like 2


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## o0Shinthi0o (Jan 2, 2023)

Pimp of Pimps said:


> Zoro will always fight the number two because he isn't a captain, even if in some cases he is strong enough to fight the same opponent Luffy or the other Captains do. It's the captains jobs to face the biggest threats.
> 
> Also, Zoro DID fight the Emperors and did very well against Kaido. So not sure what you are trying to get at anyway.


In Wano . King was not no 2 . BM was the 2nd biggest threat .

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## Ushiromiya Battler (Jan 2, 2023)

Chopper would have slaughtered King, but he wouldn't do that because he is the crew's doctor.

Feats don't mean anything guys.

Reactions: Funny 5


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## Pimp of Pimps (Jan 2, 2023)

o0Shinthi0o said:


> In Wano . King was not no 2 . BM was the 2nd biggest threat .


Number two meaning a second in command, not necessarily the second strongest. The captains will always get the bigger fish to fry, even if Zoro could have as well.


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## Pimp of Pimps (Jan 2, 2023)

Ushiromiya Battler said:


> Chopper would have slaughtered King, but he wouldn't do that because he is the crew's doctor.
> 
> Feats don't mean anything guys.


You're making a fool of yourself. What claim are you trying to make?


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## o0Shinthi0o (Jan 2, 2023)

Pimp of Pimps said:


> Number two meaning a second in command, not necessarily the second strongest. The captains will always get the bigger fish to fry, even if Zoro could have as well.


Why tho ? This was a perfect opportunity to showcase Zoro is Luffys equal by beating someone equal lvl to Kaido . Wano was Zoro's arc , so why not ?


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## Unresponsive (Jan 2, 2023)

Pimp of Pimps said:


> You're grasping at straws.
> 
> First of all, I'm not sure why you even posted that page. What does Doflamingo saying Sanji is tough prove exactly?
> 
> Second of all, the statements that are made about Zoro clearly indicate he is exceptional for a first mate. Not just that he is strong. I am not saying that it automatically means he is equal to Luffy of course, but it does indicate he is much closer to his captain than is typical of a first mate. That much really can't be denied unless one just chooses to put their fingers in their ears.


Well it just proves he is tough and strong...Him being acknowledged as a strong individual, by someone. You know like the exact same thing you did but without panel proof and a statement...

Yeah because he's powerful, no it doesn't imply that he's much closer to his captain than an average first mate because he's definitely not... I'm really trying to understand your reasoning but I just don't get the logic.

How is Zoro more closer to Luffy who is 2 tiers away from him, than Zoro being closer to the guy who is literally his equal if we're talking about power over all.


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## Ushiromiya Battler (Jan 2, 2023)

Pimp of Pimps said:


> I don't care about taunts from amateurs, either debate me or don't. Prove to me Zoro and Sanji are closer in strengh than Luffy and Zoro, if that's what you are implying.


You started quoting me for attention before I even quoted you, so clearly my taunts are working.


Irony for you to be asking for proofs when you rejected to prove your ridiculous claims in the first place.

Get outta here kiddo


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## Unresponsive (Jan 2, 2023)

Pimp of Pimps said:


> The captains will always get the bigger fish to fry, even if Zoro could have as well.


....What exactly could Zoro have done?

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Ushiromiya Battler (Jan 2, 2023)

Pimp of Pimps said:


> You're making a fool of yourself. What claim are you trying to make?


I am making a fool out of you clown.


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## Ushiromiya Battler (Jan 2, 2023)

Fucking hilarious my goodness


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## Pimp of Pimps (Jan 2, 2023)

o0Shinthi0o said:


> Why tho ? This was a perfect opportunity to showcase Zoro is Luffys equal by beating someone equal lvl to Kaido . Wano was Zoro's arc , so why not ?


Because he is a first mate not captain.


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## Pimp of Pimps (Jan 2, 2023)

Unresponsive said:


> ....What exactly could Zoro have done?


Swap either Law or Kidd with zoro against Big Mom and the result would have been the same.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Ushiromiya Battler (Jan 2, 2023)

Pimp of Pimps said:


> Because he is a first mate not captain.


Chopper is a doctor not first mate, so he could have destroyed King too.

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## o0Shinthi0o (Jan 2, 2023)

Pimp of Pimps said:


> Because he is a first mate not captain.


Is there any rules that first mate r forbidden to fight someone other than Luffys arc opponents strongest underlying?


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## Pimp of Pimps (Jan 2, 2023)

Ushiromiya Battler said:


> You started quoting me for attention before I even quoted you, so clearly my taunts are working.
> 
> 
> Irony for you to be asking for proofs when you rejected to prove your ridiculous claims in the first place.
> ...


I rejected proving my claims through a single manga panel, I'm more than happy to provide my reasoning. 

These newbies are getting out of hand. Just keep quiet if you aren't going to discuss.


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## Unresponsive (Jan 2, 2023)

Pimp of Pimps said:


> Swap either Law or Kidd with zoro against Big Mom and the result would have been the same.


Well that's not true because their hax would be needed. If Law is swapped they lose, and if Kidd is swapped they lose.

Zoro doesn't provide the abilities other than brute strength.


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## Pimp of Pimps (Jan 2, 2023)

o0Shinthi0o said:


> Is there any rules that first mate r forbidden to fight someone other than Luffys arc opponents strongest underlying?


There are obviously no concrete rules, but Zoro always fights the number two and Sanji the number three. Just a thing Oda does.


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## Pimp of Pimps (Jan 2, 2023)

Unresponsive said:


> Well that's not true because their hax would be needed. If Law is swapped they lose, and if Kidd is swapped they lose.
> 
> Zoro doesn't provide the abilities other than brute strength.


Abilities don't matter much in One Piece, if at all. Haki and raw grit somehow equalizes everything.


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## Ushiromiya Battler (Jan 2, 2023)

Pimp of Pimps said:


> I rejected proving my claims through a single manga panel, I'm more than happy to provide my reasoning.
> 
> These newbies are getting out of hand. Just keep quiet if you aren't going to discuss.


I got more rep than you "newbie" so sit down and get off Zoro's dick.


I reject your claims that you tried to reject proving by rejecting to prove my claims that rejects your claims.

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## PrinceUtopia (Jan 2, 2023)

Pimp of Pimps said:


> Swap either Law or Kidd with zoro against Big Mom and the result would have been the same.


Heavily disagree but I sincerely applaud your effort. This man is willing to respectfully fight the entire thread by himself for Zoro.


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## Pimp of Pimps (Jan 2, 2023)

Ushiromiya Battler said:


> *I got more rep than you "newbie"* so sit down and get off Zoro's dick.
> 
> 
> I reject your claims that you tried to reject proving by rejecting to prove my claims that rejects your claims.

Reactions: Funny 5


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## Ushiromiya Battler (Jan 2, 2023)

PrinceUtopia said:


> Heavily disagree but I sincerely applaud your effort. This man is willing to respectfully fight the entire thread by himself for Zoro.


I applaud his entertainment ability as much as I would for a clown in a first class circus.

Man is literally debating with Two Piece in mind, fucking ridiculous.


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## Pimp of Pimps (Jan 2, 2023)

PrinceUtopia said:


> Heavily disagree but I sincerely applaud your effort. This man is willing to respectfully fight the entire thread by himself for Zoro.


Thank you. This is nothing though, I remember when I fought for ten pages against ten people because I said Haki exists (we didn't call it back then of course). Or when I had to say Mihawk was not trying against preskip Luffy.

This isn't as ridiculous against hose though, I respect the opinion Luffy and Kidd are stronger.


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## Unresponsive (Jan 2, 2023)

Pimp of Pimps said:


> Abilities don't matter much in One Piece, if at all. Haki and raw grit somehow equalizes everything.


Except abilities matter just as much as haki does. If it didn't big mom would've defeated Kidd and Law.


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## Ushiromiya Battler (Jan 2, 2023)

Pimp of Pimps said:


>


That's right, cope and seethe in your pathetic 600k rep after joining this forum for more than 15 years, amateur.

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## Unresponsive (Jan 2, 2023)

Pimp of Pimps said:


> e because I said Haki exists (we didn't call it back then of course). Or when I had to say Mihawk was not trying against preskip Luffy.


Please tell me this never happened. Obviously Haki existed back then oda said it himself, and ...people still have this mindset that Mihawk was using 100% of his power against pretimeskip Luffy completely disregarding his statement from his introduction where he says he finds it silly to use a bunch of strength against a weakling.


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## Unresponsive (Jan 2, 2023)

Ushiromiya Battler said:


> That's right, cope and seethe in your pathetic 600k rep after joining this forum for more than 15 years, amateur.


Should we really be talking about rep.

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Ushiromiya Battler (Jan 2, 2023)

Unresponsive said:


> Should we really be talking about rep.


Anything to push an agenda since he called me amateur in the first place

Nice 5 M rep btw


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## o0Shinthi0o (Jan 2, 2023)

Pimp of Pimps said:


> There are obviously no concrete rules, but Zoro always fights the number two and Sanji the number three. Just a thing Oda does.


So, Zoro never fights Luffys lvl opponent even if there is a perfectly good opportunity like Wano ? And by doing this u think Oda trying to show us Luffy = Zoro >> Sanji ??


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## Piecesis (Jan 2, 2023)

C'mon guys let's be civil. 

Let's not throw shit at each other because someone's opinion is Zoro = Luffy even if it's the wrong opinion.

Reactions: Friendly 2


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## Ushiromiya Battler (Jan 2, 2023)

Piecesis said:


> C'mon guys let's be civil.
> 
> Let's not throw shit at each other because someone's opinion is Zoro = Luffy even if it's the wrong opinion.


Alright buddy.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Unresponsive (Jan 2, 2023)

Ushiromiya Battler said:


> Alright buddy.


"I got more rep than you "newbie" so sit down"

Reactions: Funny 2 | Winner 1


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## Ushiromiya Battler (Jan 2, 2023)

Unresponsive said:


> "I got more rep than you "newbie" so sit down"


Hey he called me amateur first


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## Pimp of Pimps (Jan 3, 2023)

Unresponsive said:


> Except abilities matter just as much as haki does. If it didn't big mom would've defeated Kidd and Law.


Nah, they don’t matter. In One Piece you can somehow overcome even the most hax abilities with grit and Haki. The abilities for the most part just exist so Oda can write cooler fights.


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## Pimp of Pimps (Jan 3, 2023)

Ushiromiya Battler said:


> Hey he called me amateur first


Because you’re rude. Either debate me or don’t.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## o0Shinthi0o (Jan 3, 2023)

Piecesis said:


> C'mon guys let's be civil.
> 
> Let's not throw shit at each other because someone's opinion is Zoro = Luffy even if it's the wrong opinion.


Saying , Zoro >= Law is wrong but saying Zoro = Luffy is just "wow , seriously dude , WTF   "

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 2 | Tier Specialist 2


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## Pimp of Pimps (Jan 3, 2023)

o0Shinthi0o said:


> So, Zoro never fights Luffys lvl opponent even if there is a perfectly good opportunity like Wano ? And by doing this u think Oda trying to show us Luffy = Zoro >> Sanji ??


Yes.


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## Ushiromiya Battler (Jan 3, 2023)

Pimp of Pimps said:


> Because you’re rude. Either debate me or don’t.


I don't debate clowns so kindly stop tagging me.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## o0Shinthi0o (Jan 3, 2023)

Pimp of Pimps said:


> Yes.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Tenma (Jan 3, 2023)

The characters who go "wow Zoro is so strong it's almost like he is the captain!" usually have never seen Luffy.  They think Zoro is strong enough ti be the captain, but what it implies is Luffy is even more extraordinary.

not to mention we have never seen it since the timeskip, even in circumstances where Zoro has done well alongside Luffy (ie roof piece).

Reactions: Winner 4


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## Ushiromiya Battler (Jan 3, 2023)

Tenma said:


> The characters who go "wow Zoro is so strong it's almost like he is the captain!" usually have never seen Luffy.  They think Zoro is strong enough ti be the captain, but what it implies is Luffy is even more extraordinary.
> 
> not to mention we have never seen it since the timeskip, even in circumstances where Zoro has done well alongside Luffy (ie roof piece).


Exactly, even in DR the reaction was that even Zoro who was so powerful isn't the captain, meaning his captain is someone who is even more impressive than that which is mind blowing to the crowd.

Reactions: Agree 3


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## Pimp of Pimps (Jan 3, 2023)

Ushiromiya Battler said:


> I don't debate clowns so kindly stop tagging me.


Sun don’t get why you are acting like a big shot. You remind me of Gad.



Tenma said:


> The characters who go "wow Zoro is so strong it's almost like he is the captain!" usually have never seen Luffy.  They think Zoro is strong enough ti be the captain, but what it implies is Luffy is even more extraordinary.
> 
> not to mention we have never seen it since the timeskip, even in circumstances where Zoro has done well alongside Luffy (ie roof piece).



Doesn’t really matter whether or not they’ve seen Luffy, it’s a clear narrative tool to show how extraordinary Zoro is. I am not saying that this proves they are equals necessarily, but it does show Zoro is exceptional amongst first mates. Which is further proven by comparing Zoro to literally any other Supernova first mate.

We saw it in Dressrosa iirc.


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## Nello (Jan 3, 2023)

Is it possible to give away rep? I would gladly use all my rep to pay people into serving my agenda for a month


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## Pimp of Pimps (Jan 3, 2023)

Nello said:


> Is it possible to give away rep? I would gladly use all my rep to pay people into serving my agenda for a month


It used to be, then the staff kinda reset everything and a lot of people got slashed. I used to have a lot more rep, but that was years ago.


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## Unresponsive (Jan 3, 2023)

Pimp of Pimps said:


> Nah, they don’t matter. In One Piece you can somehow overcome even the most hax abilities with grit and Haki. The abilities for the most part just exist so Oda can write cooler fights.


Okay

Reactions: Like 1


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## Nello (Jan 3, 2023)

What about CC points that you can use for bigger avatar and stuff?


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## Unresponsive (Jan 3, 2023)

Nello said:


> Is it possible to give away rep? I would gladly use all my rep to pay people into serving my agenda for a month


Yes so go to my post
Find this  on my post
Put the max you can(it'll say 0-the max you can put)
Then click just send or confirm just to make sure the button works.


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## Unresponsive (Jan 3, 2023)

Nello said:


> What about CC points that you can use for bigger avatar and stuff?


You get those from winning comps.


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## Pimp of Pimps (Jan 3, 2023)

Nello said:


> What about CC points that you can use for bigger avatar and stuff?


No clue, last time I was here this place was still NarutoForums lol.


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## Unresponsive (Jan 3, 2023)

Pimp of Pimps said:


> Sun don’t get why you are acting like a big shot. You remind me of Gad.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Then what's the point of using the statement? If it doesn't matter if they've seen Luffy lol.


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## Nello (Jan 3, 2023)

Unresponsive said:


> You get those from winning comps.


I have some and I know you want them. Are you ready to get in the clown car with me?


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## Pimp of Pimps (Jan 3, 2023)

Unresponsive said:


> Then what's the point of using the statement? If it doesn't matter if they've seen Luffy lol.


I just answered this in my post you quoted, it’s a narrative tool by Oda to shower how extraordinary Zoro is. And he does it over and over again.


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## Unresponsive (Jan 3, 2023)

Pimp of Pimps said:


> I just answered this in my post you quoted, it’s a narrative tool by Oda to shower how extraordinary Zoro is. And he does it over and over again.


So somehow it proves he's close to Luffy than he is to Sanji????


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## Pimp of Pimps (Jan 3, 2023)

Unresponsive said:


> So somehow it proves he's close to Luffy than he is to Sanji????


Yes. Zoro and Sanji are not super close. Zoro consistently has feats and portrayal that puts Sanji to shame.


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## Piecesis (Jan 3, 2023)

o0Shinthi0o said:


> Saying , Zoro >= Law is wrong but saying Zoro = Luffy is just "wow , seriously dude , WTF   "


I get it, trust me, I went into long paragraphs before I realised I was wasting my time. Still tho. Let's be nice to each other.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Tenma (Jan 3, 2023)

Pimp of Pimps said:


> Doesn’t really matter whether or not they’ve seen Luffy, it’s a clear narrative tool to show how extraordinary Zoro is. I am not saying that this proves they are equals necessarily, but it does show Zoro is exceptional amongst first mates. Which is further proven by comparing Zoro to literally any other Supernova first mate.
> 
> We saw it in Dressrosa iirc.




when characters say stuff like this without first seeing the boss it's usually because they can't fathom the strength of the captain.

Reactions: Agree 5


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## Unresponsive (Jan 3, 2023)

Pimp of Pimps said:


> Yes. Zoro and Sanji are not super close. Zoro consistently has feats and portrayal that puts Sanji to shame.


If we're talking about portrayal...then It is portrayed that Zoro is closer to Sanji than he is to Luffy.


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## Pimp of Pimps (Jan 3, 2023)

Tenma said:


> when characters say stuff like this without first seeing the boss it's usually because they can't fathom the strength of the captain.


Not sure what you’re trying to prove with that panel, Jack isn’t the second in command so the entire implication is different. Also in this panel the implication is not ‘Jack is so strong and he’s not the captain’ like it is with the Zoro panels.


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## Pimp of Pimps (Jan 3, 2023)

Unresponsive said:


> If we're talking about portrayal...then It is portrayed that Zoro is closer to Sanji than he is to Luffy.


Nope. Zoro’s overall portrayals always makes Sanji’s look like child’s play.


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## Tenma (Jan 3, 2023)

Pimp of Pimps said:


> Not sure what you’re trying to prove with that panel, Jack isn’t the second in command so the entire implication is different. Also in this panel the implication is not ‘Jack is so strong and he’s not the captain’ like it is with the Zoro panels.



That's precisely the implication, Luffy is in disbelief that Jack could do that despite not being the captain.


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## Unresponsive (Jan 3, 2023)

Pimp of Pimps said:


> Nope. Zoro’s overall portrayals always makes Sanji’s look like child’s play.


But they're portrayed as equals even though Zoro has better portrayal.


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## Pimp of Pimps (Jan 3, 2023)

Tenma said:


> That's precisely the implication, Luffy is in disbelief that Jack could do that despite not being the captain.


Which is entirely different from the Zoro panels. With the Jack panel the only thing one can gleam from it is how much of a beast Kaido is, no one even considers that Jack is strong enough to be the captain. With the Zoro panels yes it is obviously indirect hype for Luffy but there is also the clear implication that Zoro is strong enough to captain the Strawhats. IE - Just like Rayleigh he is an exceptional first mates.


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## Pimp of Pimps (Jan 3, 2023)

Unresponsive said:


> But they're portrayed as equals even though Zoro has better portrayal.


Zoro and Sanji have never ever been portrayed as equals except in gag/comedy scenes. Zoro eats Sanji alive.


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## Fanta09 (Jan 3, 2023)



Reactions: Funny 1


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## Unresponsive (Jan 3, 2023)

Pimp of Pimps said:


> Zoro and Sanji have never ever been portrayed as equals except in gag/comedy scenes. Zoro eats Sanji alive.


That's not true.






Exactly why if Zoro and Sanji were to fight it would go on forever or be an extreme diff fight.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Unresponsive (Jan 3, 2023)



Reactions: Funny 3


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## Pimp of Pimps (Jan 3, 2023)

Unresponsive said:


> That's not true.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Like I said, gag/comedy scenes. Zoro is at worst very close to Luffy in strength. He’s always been noticeably stronger than Sanji.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Tenma (Jan 3, 2023)

Pimp of Pimps said:


> Which is entirely different from the Zoro panels. With the Jack panel the only thing one can gleam from it is how much of a beast Kaido is, no one even considers that Jack is strong enough to be the captain. With the Zoro panels yes it is obviously indirect hype for Luffy but there is also the clear implication that Zoro is strong enough to captain the Strawhats. IE - Just like Rayleigh he is an exceptional first mates.



We can gleam from the panels that Luffy expected only Kaido to be able to pull off what Jack did.

Basically, this is splitting hairs if in neither case characters have seen what Luffy/Kaido are capable of for comparison.

Zoro and Sanji are both exceptional for their ranks relative to other crews.


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## Pimp of Pimps (Jan 3, 2023)

Tenma said:


> We can gleam from the panels that Luffy expected only Kaido to be able to pull off what Jack did.
> 
> Basically, this is splitting hairs if in neither case characters have seen what Luffy/Kaido are capable of for comparison.
> 
> Zoro and Sanji are both exceptional for their ranks relative to other crews.


No we can’t. Not sure how you came to that conclusion.

Shounen usually doesn’t operate that way. Statements like this are used as a way for the author to imply certain things. The fact that XYZ characters have not seen this or that matters less than the fact that the author those to have them say these things.

That’s just blatant Zoro downplay. How often do we hear people say Sanji is only the number three and he is this strong? Almost never, if ever. Sanji is impressive but much less so for his rank than Zoro is.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Unresponsive (Jan 3, 2023)

Pimp of Pimps said:


> Like I said, gag/comedy scenes. Zoro is at worst very close to Luffy in strength. He’s always been noticeably stronger than Sanji.


No...that isn't even a gag scene...

Zoro isn't no where near Luffys strength. I don't understand how defeating a Yonko first mate is close to defeating a Yonko.
Whole cake island proves it isn't true. He couldn't even handle big mom yet could compete Katakuri and even harm him.

Maybe that's true but he's sanjis equal overall.


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## Pimp of Pimps (Jan 3, 2023)

Unresponsive said:


> No...that isn't even a gag scene...
> 
> Zoro isn't no where near Luffys strength. I don't understand how defeating a Yonko first mate is close to defeating a Yonko.
> Whole cake island proves it isn't true. He couldn't even handle big mom yet could compete Katakuri and even harm him.
> ...


Everything you showed me was a gag or comedy scene.

Zoro is definitely close to Luffy’s strength. Saying otherwise is just delusion.

Zoro defeated Kaido’s first mate after a very impressive showing against Kaido.

Whole Cake Island proves what isn’t true?

Zoro eats Sanji alive. They’ve never been equals.

Reactions: Like 1


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## MrPopo (Jan 3, 2023)

Pimp of Pimps said:


> Like I said, gag/comedy scenes. Zoro is at worst very close to Luffy in strength. He’s always been noticeably stronger than Sanji.


How is a parallel to Dorry and Borgy two known equals a gag scene

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Pimp of Pimps (Jan 3, 2023)

MrPopo said:


> How is a parallel to Dorry and Borgy two known equals a gag scene


Cause it was supposed to be funny. Whiskey Peak showed us where Zoro stood.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1 | Funny 1


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## Incognitos (Jan 3, 2023)

Pimp of Pimps said:


> Number two meaning a second in command, not necessarily the second strongest. The captains will always get the bigger fish to fry, even if Zoro could have as well.


Big mom was number two in charge in the big mom kaidou alliance which were the big enemies of the wano arc.


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## Pimp of Pimps (Jan 3, 2023)

Incognitos said:


> Big mom was number two in charge in the big mom kaidou alliance which were the big enemies of the wano arc.


Like I said, captains face captains. Always.

Also, Big Mom and Kaido were both number one. That’s what an alliance is.


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## Unresponsive (Jan 3, 2023)

Pimp of Pimps said:


> Everything you showed me was a gag or comedy scene.
> 
> Zoro is definitely close to Luffy’s strength. Saying otherwise eis just delusion.
> 
> ...


How is it a gag scene?

No he isn't...
His best feat was scarring kaido and that was through his strongest attack...Luffy managed to damage kaido badly with ryou haki alone.
Luffy did well against Katakuri and defeat him. Yet got oneshotted by Kaido, then got stronger and unlock ryou but got tossed around by big mom even when he had ryou haki.
For the most part Yonkos are leagues above their first and second mates.

They've been equals overall..Whether you believe Zoro is stronger or not, strength isn't the only factor in a battle. Speed, endurance, durability, iq, combat iq, reaction speed, combat speed, etc are also important in battle.


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## MrPopo (Jan 3, 2023)

Pimp of Pimps said:


> Cause it was supposed to be funny. Whiskey Peak showed us where Zoro stood.


Zoro and Sanji's rivalry starting in the same manner as Dorry and Brogy because of a previous arc 


Strange how Whiskey peak didn't matter in EL or Sabaody

Reactions: Funny 1 | Winner 1


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## Incognitos (Jan 3, 2023)

Pimp of Pimps said:


> Like I said, captains face captains. Always.
> 
> Also, Big Mom and Kaido were both number one. That’s what an alliance is.


Except in EL I guess.


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## Incognitos (Jan 3, 2023)

In EL luffy fought Rob Lucci who was not captain or captain equivalent of CP9. That was spamdam who was defeated by Robin. That point doesn't stand especially when the exception is one of the biggest and most popular arcs in the manga.


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## Incognitos (Jan 3, 2023)

At the end of the day oda made kid with a higher bounty than luffy. He made kid have a similar fighting style to luffy (df powered mid range brawler). He gave kid a similar projection in the new world (both leading supernova alliances, both having similar conflicts against yonko)  

In wano he gave them similar portrayl in the prison mini arc. He made similar scenes of them punching yonko down. He made kid the primary opponent of big mom, the one who got the last hits in every chapter. The one who got the first and last hits, the one who big mom was talking to 5x more than Law. The only other supernova captain he gave CoC. 

Beyond that there's killer, the only other supernova first mate who just so happens to he a DFless swordsman who has a contrasting personality to his captains hot-headedness. Killers role continued to show that he's still a big player by being on the Rooftop and taking out a supernova. By having killer and zoro have multiple rivalry moments in wano, not kid and zoro. 

Oda couldn't have made it more clear in feats or in portrayl that luffy > Kid > zoro > killer.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Unresponsive (Jan 3, 2023)

=


Incognitos said:


> At the end of the day oda made kid with a higher bounty than luffy. He made kid have a similar fighting style to luffy (df powered mid range brawler). He gave kid a similar projection in the new world (both leading supernova alliances, both having similar conflicts against yonko)
> 
> In wano he gave them similar portrayl in the prison mini arc. He made similar scenes of them punching yonko down. He made kid the primary opponent of big mom, the one who got the last hits in every chapter. The one who got the first and last hits, the one who big mom was talking to 5x more than Law. The only other supernova captain he gave CoC.
> 
> ...


WAIT HOW ARE YOU BACK


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## Incognitos (Jan 3, 2023)

Unresponsive said:


> =
> 
> WAIT WHY ARE YOU BACK


I only got a 24 ban.


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## Unresponsive (Jan 3, 2023)

Incognitos said:


> I only got a 24 ban.


Did you request it?


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## Incognitos (Jan 3, 2023)

Unresponsive said:


> Did you request it?


No. Flaming the legion

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Unresponsive (Jan 3, 2023)

Incognitos said:


> No. Flaming the legion


@Mider T You fraud


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## Great Potato (Jan 3, 2023)

Pimp of Pimps said:


> Sun don’t get why you are acting like a big shot. *You remind me of Gad.*



Be careful invoking that name, lest you risk bringing a Gaddening to the forum.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


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## Incognitos (Jan 3, 2023)

Unresponsive said:


> @Mider T You fraud


I did request a ban to the Cafe which may be what he's talking about.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jan 3, 2023)

Widd > Loro

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Beast (Jan 3, 2023)

Pimp of Pimps said:


> While feats are important, they are secondary to the narrative being drawn and the portrayal the author gives of the characters.


Looooooooooooooool




Pimp of Pimps said:


> I’ve been on forums for a long time now, I’ve had a few misses but most of the stuff I’ve said has been true.


did… did you think everyone on the forum when you were posting more actively died and you could lie? 

loooooool pimp of pimps is the perfect representation of what it means to be a Zoro fan.

Reactions: Funny 2 | Tier Specialist 2


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## Incognitos (Jan 3, 2023)

Beast said:


> - SNIP -


Unfortunately, your wording is ambiguous

"the bet is quite simple, I’m claiming that at the END of Wano, when the battles are said and done, There will be no denying that Kidd is stronger then Zoro. Simple."

You forgot the fact that there are many people who will deny that the earth is round and the sky is blue

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Beast (Jan 3, 2023)

Incognitos said:


> Unfortunately, your wording is ambiguous
> 
> "the bet is quite simple, I’m claiming that at the END of Wano, when the battles are said and done, There will be no denying that Kidd is stronger then Zoro. Simple."
> 
> You forgot the fact that there are many people who will deny that the earth is round and the sky is blue


There is no denying Kidd is stronger Zoro.
People in denial got nothing to do with me. That’s not refutable argument just some shit, a retard would say in bad faith.

Kidd> Zoro is a manga fact, Oda made that very clear the three captains shook the world and it was them that beat the yonko, that is a factNiggas can argue with whoever they want, got nothing to do me or my thread.

as you can see @Pimp of Pimps was arguing that Luffy and Zoro are equals.

The last page of wano was absolutely clear. The three captains could not be stopped by even the yonko duo.

I wrote the post, I know exactly what I meant and I meant in the manga, there is no denying it… which is true. People in denial, can deny the manga as a whole all they want, Manga> opinions.

In the manga, Kidd beat a yonko and like Law is known as a yonko killer… Zoro is clashing with Kaku.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Winner 2


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## Ludi (Jan 3, 2023)

This thread is such a mess from beginning to end

Reactions: Funny 3


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## Beast (Jan 3, 2023)

Beast said:


> If the feats are not as clear, we can always leave it to a thread at the end and a poll.
> 
> You take risk and only then will you prosper.
> 
> ...


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## truedetectiveseason2intro (Jan 3, 2023)

“Most of my predictions have come true” Oh yeah? What diff does vista give a yonko?


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## ShadoLord (Jan 3, 2023)

POPs has a legit point

we already got an example from Rayleigh that he’s comparable to his captain and even Whitebeard himself.

Zoro is 80-90% to Luffy’s 100% when they both reached their absolute peaks.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Pimp of Pimps (Jan 3, 2023)

Great Potato said:


> Be careful invoking that name, lest you risk bringing a Gaddening to the forum.


Gad would at least be more entertaining than some of these newbies.


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## Pimp of Pimps (Jan 3, 2023)

truedetectiveseason2intro said:


> “Most of my predictions have come true” Oh yeah? What diff does vista give a yonko?


Very low difficulty. Don’t try me.


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## Beast (Jan 3, 2023)

ShadoLord said:


> POPs has a legit point
> 
> we already got an example from Rayleigh that he’s comparable to his captain and even Whitebeard himself.
> 
> Zoro is 80-90% to Luffy’s 100% when they both reached their absolute peaks.


Well, There you go GG.


Zoro fanfic future is all they have.


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## Pimp of Pimps (Jan 3, 2023)

ShadoLord said:


> POPs has a legit point
> 
> we already got an example from Rayleigh that he’s comparable to his captain and even Whitebeard himself.
> 
> Zoro is 80-90% to Luffy’s 100% when they both reached their absolute peaks.


Anyone who denies Zoro is closer to his captain than a typical first mate is living in a fantasy land. Really as simple as that.


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## Pimp of Pimps (Jan 3, 2023)

Incognitos said:


> In EL luffy fought Rob Lucci who was not captain or captain equivalent of CP9. That was spamdam who was defeated by Robin. That point doesn't stand especially when the exception is one of the biggest and most popular arcs in the manga.


Lucci was the captain equivalent. Spandam was technically in charge but didn’t have their respect nor any strength.


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## Beast (Jan 3, 2023)

Pimp of Pimps said:


> Anyone who denies Zoro is closer to his captain than a typical first mate is living in a fantasy land. Really as simple as that.


Still better conclusion then Zoro is equal to Luffy fantasy you tried to run around with.


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## GreenEggsAHam (Jan 3, 2023)

ShadoLord said:


> we already got an example from Rayleigh that he’s comparable to his captain and even Whitebeard himself.
> 
> Zoro is 80-90% to Luffy’s 100% when they both reached their absolute peaks.


So garp was corenring roger + 80-90% roger strength rayleigh
what a beast

Reactions: Winner 2


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## Beast (Jan 3, 2023)

Zoro only hope of any success in current discussions is… Ray and Mihawks possible standing in the verse at their best.  What a hopeless dream

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Pimp of Pimps (Jan 3, 2023)

Beast said:


> Still better conclusion then Zoro is equal to Luffy fantasy you tried to run around with.


I guarantee that will not be able to conclusively prove that Luffy is always stronger than Zoro.

Zoro and Luffy being equals is a perfectly reasonable conclusion. Debate me if you think otherwise.


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## Pimp of Pimps (Jan 3, 2023)

Beast said:


> Zoro only hope of any success in current discussions is… Ray and Mihawks possible standing in the verse at their best.  What a hopeless dream


What do you think of Rayleigh and Mihawk’s current standing?


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## Pimp of Pimps (Jan 3, 2023)

GreenEggsAHam said:


> So garp was corenring roger + 80-90% roger strength rayleigh
> what a beast


Are you denying that Rayleigh was closer to his captain than a typical first mate?


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## Beast (Jan 3, 2023)

Pimp of Pimps said:


> I guarantee that will not be able to conclusively prove that Luffy is always stronger than Zoro.
> 
> Zoro and Luffy being equals is a perfectly reasonable conclusion. Debate me if you think otherwise.


It’s already conclusive. Nothing to could ever make it any less true.

no it is not. It means you are dumb and can’t read. You have the compressive skill of gold fish. debate what? 1+1=2? I don’t debate facts, only drop them.




Pimp of Pimps said:


> What do you think of Rayleigh and Mohawk’s current standing?


If this thread was about them, I would tell you but since it’s not, you’re gonna have to find my posts in Vs threads involving them. My standing about them has never really changed.


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## Pimp of Pimps (Jan 3, 2023)

Beast said:


> no it is not. It means you are dumb and can’t read. You have the compressive skill of gold fish. debate what? 1+1=2? I don’t debate facts, only drop them.
> 
> 
> 
> If this thread was about them, I would tell you but since it’s not, you’re gonna have to find my posts in Vs threads involving them. My standing about them has never really changed.


So you don’t want to debate, but want to continue to taunt me. And aren’t willing to answer a simple question about two characters. Disappointing.

Someone bring me GP or Pacifista. At least they know how to hold a real discussion.


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## Beast (Jan 3, 2023)

Pimp of Pimps said:


> Are you denying that Rayleigh was closer to his captain than a typical first mate?


How many first mates are there in this series.
Only a few have been worthy of being named… 
Right hand, first mate, Vice captainand/ or Partner during the story.

killer and Kidd 
Zoro and Luffy 
Ray and Roger 
Oden and WB

And not one of those subordinates is equal to their captain.


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## Beast (Jan 3, 2023)

Pimp of Pimps said:


> So you don’t want to debate, but want to continue to taunt me. And aren’t willing to answer a simple question about two characters. Disappointing.
> 
> Someone bring me GP or Pacifista. At least they know how to hold a real discussion.


You want to waste my time instead of me educating you?

You’re gonna have to start speaking to a mirror if you think anyone got time to discuss Zoro and Luffy being equal. Get a better subject and this is my thread about Zoro and Kidd.

maybe if you actually think… you would understand this thread is already over and has been over ever since wano. You brought something stupid and we al laughed/ confused/ flabbergasted and whatever reaction people had reading your shit posts.


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## Pimp of Pimps (Jan 3, 2023)

Beast said:


> How many first mates are there in this series.
> Only a few have been worthy of being named…
> Right hand, first mate, Vice captainand/ or Partner during the story.
> 
> ...


Obviously first mates being equal to their captain isn’t typical, not sure what you are trying to say here. Zoro is an exception.


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## Incognitos (Jan 3, 2023)

Pimp of Pimps said:


> Lucci was the captain equivalent. Spandam was technically in charge but didn’t have their respect nor any strength.


He wasn't the captain equivalent that was spandam. That's made pretty abundantly clear.

You started this whole thing with big mom being 2 in strength but not second in command despite certainly having more command over the beast bmp alliance than king. 

You then go onto say bm doesn't count because she's captain and then you say captains always fight captains. Like it or not spandam is the equivlanet to the captain of cp9. He's in charge, he's chief. Your analogy falls flat and you keep moving the goalpost.


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## GreenEggsAHam (Jan 3, 2023)

Pimp of Pimps said:


> Are you denying that Rayleigh was closer to his captain than a typical first mate?


Nah, but if garp was cornering roger, then how  close do you think ray was to roger?


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## Beast (Jan 3, 2023)

Pimp of Pimps said:


> Obviously first mates being equal to their captain isn’t typical, not sure what you are trying to say here. Zoro is an exception.


It’s never happened. Unless you’re talking about WBs allies where to twins were captains in that case it’s two captains that are equal and not a subordinate. You do know what a subordinate is right?
Zoro is not exception, Luffy is the exception, Luffy is the one that is destined through history and the one everyone is waiting for, Zoro is a tag along. He was supposed to be on Buggy’s  ship according to Oda.


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## Pimp of Pimps (Jan 3, 2023)

Beast said:


> It’s never happened. Unless you’re talking about WBs allies where to twins were captains in that case it’s two captains that are equal and not a subordinate. You do know what a subordinate is right?
> Zoro is not exception, Luffy is the exception, Luffy is the one that is destined through history and the one everyone is waiting for, Zoro is a tag along. He was supposed to be on Buggy’s  ship according to Oda.


It's perfectly legitimate and logical to say Luffy is stronger than Zoro, but your argument doesn't make sense. If the argument is that Zoro is an exceptional first mate because he is equal to his captain, then saying no other first mate is equal to their captain adds no value to your argument.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jan 3, 2023)

the curent poll here

is proof that Kidd wins the bet

Reactions: Like 1


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## Pimp of Pimps (Jan 3, 2023)

GreenEggsAHam said:


> Nah, but if garp was cornering roger, then how  close do you think ray was to roger?


Garp was able to corner Roger because he was strong and he brought a bunch of strong Marines with him. Not sure why you guys even mention this point unless you think he was cornering the Roger Pirates on his own. 

I don't know exactly how close Rayleigh was to Roger. I think he was much closer than most first mates are to their captains, as evidenced by Garp calling both him and Whitebeard legends. But I do think there was a sizeable gap still between himself and Roger/Whitebeard. I'd probably say he was closer to Garp.


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## ShadoLord (Jan 3, 2023)

GreenEggsAHam said:


> So garp was corenring roger + 80-90% roger strength rayleigh
> what a beast


And sengoku


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## Pimp of Pimps (Jan 3, 2023)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> the curent poll here
> 
> is proof that Kidd wins the bet


The bet was always nonsensical, because the conditions laid would require something like a narration box that doesn't give even a 1% doubt.


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## Pimp of Pimps (Jan 3, 2023)

Unresponsive said:


> How is it a gag scene?
> 
> No he isn't...
> His best feat was scarring kaido and that was through his strongest attack...Luffy managed to damage kaido badly with ryou haki alone.
> ...


It's a gag scene because it isn't representative of reality. Why are you placing so much stock in them catching the same sized dinosaurs but not in Luffy and Zoro literally fighting to a standstill in Whiskey Peak? 

Zoro did amazing against Kaidou. He dealt a massive blow. Not sure why you are downplaying it. Luffy literally lost the fight until he unlocked awakening. 

Yes, first mates tend to be a good deal weaker than their captains. 

Zoro will beat Sanji in a fight every single time.


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## Pimp of Pimps (Jan 3, 2023)

Beast said:


> There is no denying Kidd is stronger Zoro.
> People in denial got nothing to do with me. That’s not refutable argument just some shit, a retard would say in bad faith.
> 
> Kidd> Zoro is a manga fact, Oda made that very clear the three captains shook the world and it was them that beat the yonko, that is a factNiggas can argue with whoever they want, got nothing to do me or my thread.
> ...


I'm fine with saying Kidd is stronger than Zoro, it's a reasonable conclusion. But you need to bring better points that 'haha it's obvious durp'

Reactions: Like 1 | Disagree 1


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## fenaker (Jan 3, 2023)

Piecesis said:


> Okay so what I got from this is, ignore manga panels that don't fit with your agenda, don't bring any proof that Luffy = Zoro because there isn't any. If that's all you got it's best to concede.
> 
> The difference between what I said and what you have is that I've stated canonical manga events that have occured which places Sanji being near Equal to Zoro but you cannot give me one panel of Zoro being stated near equal to luffy. Interesting indeed.
> 
> They're called the Monster Trio, not Monster Duo. Unless you bring me evidence that supports your case then this is a pointless discussion.


You shouldn't have talked lmao , but what i saw here is one thing is when i discuss with u ppl here i don't find a single credible arguments either from Law tards or Kid tards or Sanji tards ; last time it was Law vs Zoro ; Law tards with their alliance with  Kid tards couldn't even win a debat for Law in that thread , it was a one side massacre lmao

Reactions: Agree 1 | Tier Specialist 2


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## Pimp of Pimps (Jan 3, 2023)

Incognitos said:


> He wasn't the captain equivalent that was spandam. That's made pretty abundantly clear.
> 
> You started this whole thing with big mom being 2 in strength but not second in command despite certainly having more command over the beast bmp alliance than king.
> 
> You then go onto say bm doesn't count because she's captain and then you say captains always fight captains. Like it or not spandam is the equivlanet to the captain of cp9. He's in charge, he's chief. Your analogy falls flat and you keep moving the goalpost.


The captain equivalent is the strongest ba guy Luffy needs to defeat in order to accomplish his goal for that arc. That was Lucci. Alo=so, it's strange trying to say who is or isn't the captain equivalent when comparing the Strawhats to an organization that has an entirely different structure. 

Big Mom and Kaido were in an alliance, which means both were in command.


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## Pimp of Pimps (Jan 3, 2023)

fenaker said:


> You shouldn't have talked lmao , but what i saw here is one thing is when i discuss with u ppl here i don't find a single credible arguments either from Law tards or Kid tards or Sanji tards ; last time it was Law vs Zoro ; Law tards with their alliance with  Kid tards couldn't even win a debat for Law in that thread , it was a one side massacre lmao


Ah yeah, I remember that. There were one or two other instances two where Oda stated this. 

But I do admit sometimes the databooks have strange statements, so I don't treat them with 100% certainty.


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## Beast (Jan 3, 2023)

Pimp of Pimps said:


> It's perfectly legitimate and logical to say Luffy is stronger than Zoro, but your argument doesn't make sense. If the argument is that Zoro is an exceptional first mate because he is equal to his captain, then saying no other first mate is equal to their captain adds no value to your argument.


You aren’t making any points. Luffy is stronger than Zoro, that is a fact. First go look at what a fact is.


Pimp of Pimps said:


> I'm fine with saying Kidd is stronger than Zoro, it's a reasonable conclusion. But you need to bring better points that 'haha it's obvious durp'


I did, you as well as anyone else voting for Zoro, should have been man enough to accept losing.
Oda specifically wrote the last page of wano in a shout out to Law, Luffy and Kidd being the reason the war was won and the only reason the war was won because as the CP0 already made it blatantly clear round after round, beating the F6 didn’t matter, beating the 3 generals didn’t matter and only beating Kaidou and BM was what was gonna win them the war.

Oda already rolled out the credits for me, why the fuck would I need to argue when Oda has made it clear as soon as we were leaving wano?
So perfectly, it’s like he read my bet thread and said, Hey… that Beast fellow, let me give him a massive W and literally put a panel to it. Not my fault you can’t read and comprehend that goes for the other 160 voters.

Reactions: Winner 2


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## Pimp of Pimps (Jan 3, 2023)

Beast said:


> You aren’t making any points. Luffy is stronger than Zoro, that is a fact. First go look at what a fact is.
> 
> I did, you as well as anyone else voting for Zoro, should have been man enough to accept losing.
> Oda specifically wrote the last page of wano in a shout out to Law, Luffy and Kidd being the reason the war was won and the only reason the war was won because as the CP0 already made it blatantly clear round after round, beating the F6 didn’t matter, beating the 3 generals didn’t matter and only beating Kaidou and BM was what was gonna win them the war.
> ...


The purpose of the battledome is to debate, if you aren't going to do that stop wasting everyone's time.


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## Pimp of Pimps (Jan 3, 2023)

Incognitos said:


> - SNIP -


@Great Potato

These guys are getting out of hand.


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## Beast (Jan 3, 2023)

Pimp of Pimps said:


> The purpose of the battledome is to debate, if you aren't going to do that stop wasting everyone's time.


You’re on my thread, where you can’t even keep to the subject at matter.
The battledome isn’t for opinions and there is no need to discuss feats when Oda made a clear statement. The three captains are the strongest in wano as they beat the two strongest characters in wano.


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## Pimp of Pimps (Jan 3, 2023)

Beast said:


> You’re on my thread, where you can’t even keep to the subject at matter.
> The battledome isn’t for opinions and there is no need to discuss feats when Oda made a clear statement. The three captains are the strongest in wano as they beat the two strongest characters in wano.


Why does beating a stronger character (especially as part of a team) automatically mean they are stronger than Zoro? There is no rule that necessarily states this. 

To be clear, I'm on the fence on who is stronger between Kidd and Zoro. But acting like it's a set in stone fact and not willing to debate is just intellectual laziness. Especially when you clearly have the time to make taunt posts. You should either debate or just stay quiet.


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## Soba (Jan 3, 2023)

Pimp of Pimps said:


> The purpose of the battledome is to debate, if you aren't going to do that stop wasting everyone's time.


There isn't really any debate to be made. 

Zoro's best attack barely scared a non-serious non trying Kaido. However much stronger that you think got after his PU (despite it already having Adv.CoC by Kaido's statement) he's still not dealing as much damage to him as Oden did. Meaning that while we may not know how much it would hurt Kaido, we know how much it wouldn't hurt him. 

Meanwhile Kidd broke Bigger Mom's bones with his attack and forced her to use her lifespan to heal the injuries. They were that serious.  

How they fared against top tiers should tell us all about their power levels.


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## Ascot (Jan 3, 2023)

53 pages of a bet thread in which the OP already won like months ago  



yall have too much time

Reactions: Winner 3


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## Soba (Jan 3, 2023)

Pimp of Pimps said:


> Why does beating a stronger character (especially as part of a team) automatically mean they are stronger than Zoro? There is no rule that necessarily states this.


 Because Zoro would not be able to replicate Kidd's feats as per my upper statement. And if he can't beat Big Mom alongside Law then that means he's weaker than Kidd.


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## Beast (Jan 3, 2023)

Pimp of Pimps said:


> Why does beating a stronger character (especially as part of a team) automatically mean they are stronger than Zoro? There is no rule that necessarily states this.
> 
> To be clear, I'm on the fence on who is stronger between Kidd and Zoro. But acting like it's a set in stone fact and not willing to debate is just intellectual laziness. Especially when you clearly have the time to make taunt posts. You should either debate or just stay quiet.


Beating stronger opponents is how you prove how strong you are and get stronger. BM is more then twice as strong as King, so this team thing means nothing. Two kings wouldn’t make up BM or close to it.

It is set in stone, you are in denial. You think Zoro is even close to Luffy hence why you don’t seem to see where to stone is set. I don’t need to make any points, you have no idea what you’re talking about and not one post you have made on this thread has any credit.
You keep saying why this or why that, instead of you yourself actually making a point but as I said, this thread is over… do you know what Over means? It’s done, it’s finished.

I’m waiting for the mods to finally grow some balls and change the avi of 157 different users to a picture I choose, I can’t load any pictures on here so, @Incognitos ima need your help bruh.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Fel1x (Jan 3, 2023)

157 fools

Legion never wins.
just compare to post-Wano poll

Reactions: Like 1


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## Beast (Jan 3, 2023)

Fel1x said:


> 157 fools
> 
> Legion never wins.
> just compare to post-Wano poll


They both haven’t done anything since wano too, Zoro actually took some Ls since, getting drown and now clashing with fucking Kaku. Heck,  at least S Hawk could provided some fake momentary hype.


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## Kagutsutchi (Jan 3, 2023)

Elbaf is just gonna make this even worse for Zoro


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## Incognitos (Jan 3, 2023)

Beast said:


> They both haven’t done anything since wano too, Zoro actually took some Ls since, getting drown and now clashing with fucking Kaku. Heck,  at least S Hawk could provided some fake momentary hype.


What do you mean Kaku, I'm pretty sure that was kizaru

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Fel1x (Jan 3, 2023)

Beast said:


> They both haven’t done anything since wano too, Zoro actually took some Ls since, getting drown and now clashing with fucking Kaku. Heck,  at least S Hawk could provided some fake momentary hype.


actually I don't care about him clashing with Kaku. just fan service. it doesn't affect my opinion about him.
but Kidd is simply stronger. name any arc - Kidd was stronger than Zoro there

Reactions: Like 2


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## o0Shinthi0o (Jan 3, 2023)

beating a bozo YC1 (1 shoot material for & dinner category for  ) in an extreme fight with magic heal will never be impressive compared to beating a freak of nature Yonkou with OP bone healing in a 2v1 fight

Reactions: Winner 3 | Tier Specialist 2


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## Pimp of Pimps (Jan 3, 2023)

Soba said:


> There isn't really any debate to be made.
> 
> Zoro's best attack barely scared a non-serious non trying Kaido. However much stronger that you think got after his PU (despite it already having Adv.CoC by Kaido's statement) he's still not dealing as much damage to him as Oden did. Meaning that while we may not know how much it would hurt Kaido, we know how much it wouldn't hurt him.
> 
> ...


I don't think that's a fair assessment of what happened. Zoro was doing just as well against Kaido as the captains were when they were on the rooftop.



It was also Zoro and Killed that disabled Big Mom's weapons and gave Law and Kidd the opening to separate her. 

As for Zoro's big attack, it did a good deal of damage I think. No, it didn't down him or whatever but leaving a scar is a big deal. Not every cut on Kaido is going to leave a scar. Up until this point Zoro was doing just as well as the others really, he just didn't have a DF awakening to fall back on and grow even further. But in his battle with King he did grow stronger through an increased ability to utilize Enma. 

That being said, I am NOT saying Zoro is for sure stronger than Kidd or even that he's stronger than Kidd necessarily at the moment. What I am saying is that Luffy = Zoro is the norm and even if Luffy and the Captains might momentarily pull ahead Zoro eventually catches up due to his constant training. Is this a set in stone fact? No, but I think it can be reasonably argued.


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## Beast (Jan 3, 2023)

This fanfic of replacing Kidd with Zoro and achieving the same feat is pure fanfic and that’s all it is.
King 100% is losing to Kidd or law. 
BM losing in any other fashion is literally fanfic. BM had to BFR’d and Zoro is not capable of holding her down to sending her down multiple levels when his strongest attack couldn’t even put Kaidou on his knees.


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## Pimp of Pimps (Jan 3, 2023)

Beast said:


> Beating stronger opponents is how you prove how strong you are and get stronger. BM is more then twice as strong as King, so this team thing means nothing. Two kings wouldn’t make up BM or close to it.
> 
> It is set in stone, you are in denial. You think Zoro is even close to Luffy hence why you don’t seem to see where to stone is set. I don’t need to make any points, you have no idea what you’re talking about and not one post you have made on this thread has any credit.
> You keep saying why this or why that, instead of you yourself actually making a point but as I said, this thread is over… do you know what Over means? It’s done, it’s finished.
> ...


Ad hominems don't help your case. If something is so set in stone, it should be easy for you to debate it. Or not waste your energy by spamming. Are you unable to just have a civil conversation?


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## Beast (Jan 3, 2023)

Incognitos said:


> What do you mean Kaku, I'm pretty sure that was kizaru


I loved the Kaku/ Kizaru mash. That neat art work by you.


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## Pimp of Pimps (Jan 3, 2023)

Beast said:


> You aren’t making any points. Luffy is stronger than Zoro, that is a fact. First go look at what a fact is.
> 
> I did, you as well as anyone else voting for Zoro, should have been man enough to accept losing.
> Oda specifically wrote the last page of wano in a shout out to Law, Luffy and Kidd being the reason the war was won and the only reason the war was won because as the *CP0 already made it blatantly clear round after round, beating the F6 didn’t matter, beating the 3 generals didn’t matter and only beating Kaidou and BM was what was gonna win them the war.*
> ...


They actually said the exact opposite


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## MrPopo (Jan 3, 2023)

fenaker said:


> You shouldn't have talked lmao , but what i saw here is one thing is when i discuss with u ppl here i don't find a single credible arguments either from Law tards or Kid tards or Sanji tards ; last time it was Law vs Zoro ; Law tards with their alliance with  Kid tards couldn't even win a debat for Law in that thread , it was a one side massacre lmao


Sabo is dead

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Beast (Jan 3, 2023)

Pimp of Pimps said:


> They actually said the exact opposite


Bruh, how do you post a page and you didn’t read it?

It’s literally in the same conjoined bubble.
You a special kinda of stupid I won’t lie. I feel like I’ve heard things but this is… amazing.


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## Kagutsutchi (Jan 3, 2023)

Pimp of Pimps said:


> They actually said the exact opposite


Wasn't it later said that unless Kaido and Big Mom fell, then defeating everyone else was pointless?


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## Pimp of Pimps (Jan 3, 2023)

Beast said:


> Bruh, how do you post a page and you didn’t read it?
> 
> It’s literally in the same conjoined bubble.
> You a special kinda of stupid I won’t lie. I feel like I’ve heard things but this is… amazing.


The CP0 clearly are saying it will not be enough to simply defeat Kaido and Big Mom, the executives also need to be countered. It's right there.


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## Beast (Jan 3, 2023)

Kagutsutchi said:


> Wasn't it later said that unless Kaido and Big Mom fell, then defeating everyone else was pointless?


In this same post, they only admit that  not being the three officers just means they will lose a lot of men, never the war itself.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Pimp of Pimps (Jan 3, 2023)

Kagutsutchi said:


> Wasn't it later said that unless Kaido and Big Mom fell, then defeating everyone else was pointless?


Yeah, so they go hand in hand. Just defeating Kaido and Big Mom won't win them the war, but neither would just defeating executives.


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## Beast (Jan 3, 2023)

Pimp of Pimps said:


> The CP0 clearly are saying it will not be enough to simply defeat Kaido and Big Mom, the executives also need to be countered. It's right there.


Is there another language you speak?

I’ll translate it to whatever and send it to you for you to understand.


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## Pimp of Pimps (Jan 3, 2023)

Beast said:


> In this same post, they only admit that  not being the three officers just means they will lose a lot of men, never the war itself.


'Simply assassinating the enemy leadership is unlikely to settle the conflict'


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## Pimp of Pimps (Jan 3, 2023)

Beast said:


> Is there another language you speak?
> 
> I’ll translate it to whatever and send it to you for you to understand.


Amazing. You are proven wrong to your face and you can't admit it. Hilarious.


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## MrPopo (Jan 3, 2023)

Kagutsutchi said:


> Wasn't it later said that unless Kaido and Big Mom fell, then defeating everyone else was pointless?


Aye


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## Beast (Jan 3, 2023)

Pimp of Pimps said:


> Yeah, so they go hand in hand. Just defeating Kaido and Big Mom won't win them the war, but neither would just defeating executives.


BM/ Kaidou are not interchangeable with the executives, stop writing Bs.


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## o0Shinthi0o (Jan 3, 2023)

if Zoro vs King never happened or Zoro lost the match , the out come would still be the same , King is extremely insignificant to make much differance in grand sceme of things . Same cant be said about Luffy vs Kaido and Kidd+Law vs BM .


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## Pimp of Pimps (Jan 3, 2023)

Beast said:


> In this same post, they only admit that  not being the three officers just means they will lose a lot of men, never the war itself.


No, they said that not countering the executives will result in the loss of a lot of men. They did not say that not countering the executes will result in the loss of a lot of men but they'd still win the war if Emperors were taken out. They specifically said if only the Emperors were taken out it would be unlikely to end the conflict.


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## Pimp of Pimps (Jan 3, 2023)

o0Shinthi0o said:


> if Zoro vs King never happened or Zoro lost the match , the out come would still be the same , King is extremely insignificant to make much differance in grand sceme of things . Same cant be said about Luffy vs Kaido and Kidd+Law vs BM .


No, CP0 made it clear the executives most likely need to go as well for the war to be won. You don't win a battle by just taking down the general usually, you need to deal a big enough blow to all major forces.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## fenaker (Jan 3, 2023)

MrPopo said:


> Sabo is dead


Yeah he is dead at that time 
What's better is Oda announcing the credibility of that databook that your cope won't help at denying it

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Pimp of Pimps (Jan 3, 2023)

Beast said:


> - SNIP -


Listen, CP0 flat out said just beating the Emperors is unlikely to be enough to end the conflict. You're really grasping at straws here.


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## Beast (Jan 3, 2023)

Pimp of Pimps said:


> No, they said that not countering the executives will result in the loss of a lot of men. They did not say that not countering the executes will result in the loss of a lot of men but they'd still win the war if Emperors were taken out. They specifically said if only the Emperors were taken out it would be unlikely to end the conflict.


Loss of a lot of men is not the loss of the war/ battle. That’s number one.
Two, not sure where that unlikely translation comes from but it’s just as it says… Only unlikely as the war is still growing and opening up.
read Mrpopo page and that’s what it means to have control of the war. The war stood with BM/ Kaidou, not their subordinates.


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## Pimp of Pimps (Jan 3, 2023)

Beast said:


> Loss of a lot of men is not the loss of the war/ battle. That’s number one.
> Two, not sure where that unlikely translation comes from but it’s just as it says… Only unlikely as the war is still growing and opening up.
> With the panel of


Yes, lots of men is not necessarily the same as losing the war. But that is just an addition to the main point that the CP0 said that beating only the Emperors would be unlikely to end the conflict. In other words, it was important to also finish the executives even if less important than finishing the Emperors.

You have to really grasp at straws to read this any other way.


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## Beast (Jan 3, 2023)

Pimp of Pimps said:


> Listen, CP0 flat out said just beating the Emperors is unlikely to be enough to end the conflict. You're really grasping at straws here.



- SNIP -

BM actually survived and beat Law/ Kidd (everything else is the same)… how does the war turn out?

King actually beats Zoro (everything else is the same), how does the war turn out?


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## Beast (Jan 3, 2023)

Pimp of Pimps said:


> Yes, lots of men is not necessarily the same as losing the war. But that is just an addition to the main point that the CP0 said that beating only the Emperors would be unlikely to end the conflict. In other words, it was important to also finish the executives even if less important than finishing the Emperors.
> 
> You have to really grasp at straws to read this any other way.


Unlikely at the start of the battle… maybe. But that’s exactly the same tactic kIaodu was using to make sure that Momo was killed and he wanted Luffys head to kill the moral as he saw those two as the leaders of the alliance. It’s unlikely but not impossible. Had Kaidou and BM gotten beat, I’m willing to argue that war was over whether the f6 or all 3 executives weren’t down. The beats pirates follow Kaidou not King, queen or jack.


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## Pimp of Pimps (Jan 3, 2023)

Beast said:


> - SNIP -
> 
> BM actually survived and beat Law/ Kidd (everything else is the same)… how does the war turn out?
> 
> King actually beats Zoro (everything else is the same), how does the war turn out?


You're not making any sense, I did not say that beating the executives was as important as defeating the Emperors. I said that just defeating the Emperors would be unlikely to resolve the conflict entirely, both the Emperors and the executives need to fall for a conclusive victory according to CP0.


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## Unresponsive (Jan 3, 2023)

Pimp of Pimps said:


> It's a gag scene because it isn't representative of reality. Why are you placing so much stock in them catching the same sized dinosaurs but not in Luffy and Zoro literally fighting to a standstill in Whiskey Peak?
> 
> Zoro did amazing against Kaidou. He dealt a massive blow. Not sure why you are downplaying it. Luffy literally lost the fight until he unlocked awakening.
> 
> ...


That isn't a gag scene...It has an effect on the plot and has been shown many times. You believe it isn't a representative of reality because it either allows you to push an agenda or you just don't have a reason.

Whiskey Peak was a side arc...after that I think the arc was alabasta where Luffy clearly shows he is stronger than Zoro. These rivalry scenes between Zoro and Sanji happen every arc numerous times.

I wasn't downplaying the feat, I just don't understand why acting like he did this with ease. It took him his strongest attack, and that's all it could do.

Yeah Luffy did lose the fight but he was able to damage kaido badly on multiple occasions. My point wasn't that Zoro lost, it's just that casual blows from Luffy was enough to harm kaido, but it took Zoro his strongest attack to harm him. 

Luffy is still 2 tiers above Zoro.

It could be a tie, it could be a win for zoro, it could be a win for sanji. I cannot tell you specifically but what I can tell you is that the fight will and will always be an extreme diff fight.


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## Beast (Jan 3, 2023)

Pimp of Pimps said:


> You're not making any sense, I did not say that beating the executives was as important as defeating the Emperors. I said that just defeating the Emperors would be unlikely to resolve the conflict entirely, both the Emperors and the executives need to fall for a conclusive victory according to CP0.


Unlikely doesn’t make it fact. Kaidou and BM lose, the war is already over. No one was following king or Queen, who plagued them. So, no unlikely the war ends immediately as the war had just begun but with a defeat of both yonkos, you gotta be a spastic to think they fodders and pirates who are known for betraying each other there (Hawkins, Drake, Whows who) were going to fight for what exactly? Kaidous dream even though he is dead?
The war ends with the yonko as it began with the yonko.


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## Pimp of Pimps (Jan 3, 2023)

Beast said:


> Unlikely at the start of the battle… maybe. But that’s exactly the same tactic kIaodu was using to make sure that Momo was killed and he wanted Luffys head to kill the moral as he saw those two as the leaders of the alliance. It’s unlikely but not impossible. Had Kaidou and BM gotten beat, I’m willing to argue that war was over whether the f6 or all 3 executives weren’t down. The beats pirates follow Kaidou not King, queen or jack.


Is there any evidence that at any point in the battle that just defeating the Emperors would give them a conclusive victory? If you have it, please provide it. 

Point is, there's no proof that the only thing that mattered for the war was defeating the Emperors and nothing else. Obviously if the Emperors aren't defeated all other efforts are futile, but to end the conflict and gain a real total victory both the Emperors and executives needed to fall.


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## o0Shinthi0o (Jan 3, 2023)

Pimp of Pimps said:


> No, CP0 made it clear the executives most likely need to go as well for the war to be won. You don't win a battle by just taking down the general usually, you need to deal a big enough blow to all major forces.


in real world ? may b . But in Op world ? nah . It is  clear Quality >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> quantity .


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## Pimp of Pimps (Jan 3, 2023)

o0Shinthi0o said:


> in real world ? may b . But in Op world ? nah . It is  clear Quality >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> quantity .


CP0 were very clear. Not sure why you feel the need to oppose their words.


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## o0Shinthi0o (Jan 3, 2023)

Pimp of Pimps said:


> CP0 were very clear. Not sure why you feel the need to oppose their words.


cause , i know Yamato , Momo , Law , Marco and Kidd was ready to fight Kaido after Luffys supposed death . King being alive in extremely insignificant to change the outcome of the WAR.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Beast (Jan 3, 2023)

Pimp of Pimps said:


> Is there any evidence that at any point in the battle that just defeating the Emperors would give them a conclusive victory? If you have it, please provide it.
> 
> Point is, there's no proof that the only thing that mattered for the war was defeating the Emperors and nothing else. Obviously if the Emperors aren't defeated all other efforts are futile, but to end the conflict and gain a real total victory both the Emperors and executives needed to fall.


I just did… can you not read?

no one is following King or Queen, that was made clear when they were on the live floor and their own subordinates turned on them. You stupid stupid stupid person. That’s 3x more the stupid I’m used to.

umm it did and Mr Popos post that you keep on goring makes it clear. The most important characters of the war were Kaidou, BM then Momo for the alliance (at least for the samurai). You just in denial and have the comprehensive skill of a good fish. You are mentally impaired I would say.


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## Pimp of Pimps (Jan 3, 2023)

Beast said:


> Unlikely doesn’t make it fact. Kaidou and BM lose, the war is already over. No one was following king or Queen, who plagued them. So, no unlikely the war ends immediately as the war had just begun but with a defeat of both yonkos, you gotta be a spastic to think they fodders and pirates who are known for betraying each other there (Hawkins, Drake, Whows who) were going to fight for what exactly? Kaidous dream even though he is dead?
> The war ends with the yonko as it began with the yonko.


Remember in the Whitebeard War when Whitebeard got Buggy on his side because he thought the prisoners with him could cause some trouble? Same thing. While we as readers are usually just shown the big hitters, it's pretty clear that in the One Piece world things like numbers etc do matter even if we are talking about relative fodder. 

CP0 made a very clear statement. Only defeating the Emperors is unlikely to end the conflict. Yes, the word unlikely also means that just defeating the Emperors might have ended the conflict but that is much less likely. Very clearly the implication is that the defeat of the executives is also significant.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Beast (Jan 3, 2023)

Beast said:


> - SNIP -
> 
> BM actually survived and beat Law/ Kidd (everything else is the same)… how does the war turn out?
> 
> King actually beats Zoro (everything else is the same), how does the war turn out?


@Pimp of Pimps you answer this and we can move on.


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## Pimp of Pimps (Jan 3, 2023)

o0Shinthi0o said:


> cause , i know Yamato , Momo , Law , Marco and Kidd was ready to fight Kaido after Luffys supposed death . King being alive in extremely insignificant to change the outcome of the WAR.


What you think you know doesn't somehow supersedes CP0's words.


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## Beast (Jan 3, 2023)

Pimp of Pimps said:


> Remember in the Whitebeard War when Whitebeard got Buggy on his side because he thought the prisoners with him could cause some trouble? Same thing. While we as readers are usually just shown the big hitters, it's pretty clear that in the One Piece world things like numbers etc do matter even if we are talking about relative fodder.
> 
> CP0 made a very clear statement. Only defeating the Emperors is unlikely to end the conflict. Yes, the word unlikely also means that just defeating the Emperors might have ended the conflict but that is much less likely. Very clearly the implication is that the defeat of the executives is also significant.


No, Oda tried to reaffirm that during this wano arc, when CoC blast should put every below a certain level to sleep. It’s plot that had Zoro fight a smile user for chapters when he can one shot all of them together and I mean every smile user minus adult Momo and Killer. 

Unlikely does not make it certain, so try again. There’s more reason to believe it would than to say otherwise. Unlikely isn’t cutting it.


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## Pimp of Pimps (Jan 3, 2023)

Beast said:


> No, Oda tried to reaffirm that during this wano arc, when CoC blast should put every below a certain level to sleep. It’s plot that had Zoro fight a smile user for chapters when he can one shot all of them together.


You're trying really hard to disprove the in universe experts. The CP0 were obviously being used as a narrative tool to describe the situation.

So, let me get this right, CP0 who are observing the battle making a specific statement are wrong but you are right? lol


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## o0Shinthi0o (Jan 3, 2023)

Pimp of Pimps said:


> What you think you know doesn't somehow supersedes CP0's words.


CP0 is not a God that i will abandon my common sense and ignore the thing i am seeing right b4 me . and Law, Kidd , Marco , Yamato , Momo all were active when Kaido Koed CP0 guy & come down in dragon form , so , he was not conscious to see the scenario that WE READERS can see .


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## MrPopo (Jan 3, 2023)

fenaker said:


> Yeah he is dead at that time
> What's better is Oda announcing the credibility of that databook that your cope won't help at denying it


Yeah no Oda doesn't write the entire databooks he has his editors do that which is why databooks like blue are riddled with incorrect information


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## Pimp of Pimps (Jan 3, 2023)

Beast said:


> @Pimp of Pimps you answer this and we can move on.


I already did, but I'll do it again in different words. 

If King wins, the good guys still win but take a loss. 

If BM won, the good guys lose. 

Not sure how this contradicts what CP0 said, that just the Emperors losing would be unlikely to end the conflict.


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## Beast (Jan 3, 2023)

Pimp of Pimps said:


> You're trying really hard to disprove the in universe experts. The CP0 were obviously being used as a narrative tool to describe the situation.
> 
> So, let me get this right, CP0 who are observing the battle making a specific statement are wrong but you are right? lol


Nah, ^ (use bro)…


Beast said:


> Maybe grow a brain and do the comparison.
> 
> BM actually survived and beat Law/ Kidd (everything else is the same)… how does the war turn out?
> 
> King actually beats Zoro (everything else is the same), how does the war turn out?


answer this. I’m sure everyone already has clear picture of who you are now with posts already but make it crystal clear for us one last time.


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## Pimp of Pimps (Jan 3, 2023)

o0Shinthi0o said:


> CP0 is not a God that i will abandon my common sense and ignore the thing i am seeing right b4 me . and Law, Kidd , Marco , Yamato , Momo all were active when Kaido Koed CP0 guy & come down in dragon form , so , he was not conscious to see the scenario that WE READERS can see .


Your common sense doesn't know more than CP0.


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## Beast (Jan 3, 2023)

Pimp of Pimps said:


> I already did, but I'll do it again in different words.
> 
> If King wins, the good guys still win but take a loss.
> 
> ...


so, Kings existence brings no change to the war but BM does?  

The war is a war brought up by Kaidou… he loses, there is no war. There is nothing further to discuss. You just plain stupid.


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## Pimp of Pimps (Jan 3, 2023)

Amazing how so many people can outright deny such a clear statement from obviously knowledgeable characters just because they want to. 

@Beast You said that the CP0 said beating the executives doesn't matter. When I prove they said the opposite, you are saying CP0 are wrong. 

Amazing. How old are you?


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## Beast (Jan 3, 2023)

Pimp of Pimps said:


> Your common sense doesn't know more than CP0.


and what do the CP0 know exactly?
They can read the minds of the beast pirates, is that what you are saying?


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## Pimp of Pimps (Jan 3, 2023)

Beast said:


> so, Kings existence brings no change to the war but BM does?
> 
> The war is a war brought up by Kaidou… he loses, there is no war. There is nothing further to discuss. You just plain stupid.


King is a first mate, Big Mom is a Emporor. One is obviously much more significant than the other.


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## Pimp of Pimps (Jan 3, 2023)

Beast said:


> and what do the CP0 know exactly?
> They can read the minds of the beast pirates, is that what you are saying?


Can you? Just stop, you are embarrassing yourself. At least show me some sort of statement that contradicts what CP0 said.


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## Beast (Jan 3, 2023)

Pimp of Pimps said:


> Amazing how so many people can outright deny such a clear statement from obviously knowledgeable characters just because they want to.
> 
> @Beast You said that the CP0 said beating the executives doesn't matter. When I prove they said the opposite, you are saying CP0 are wrong.
> 
> Amazing. How old are you?


CP0 only made a suggestion hence the unlikely because they are not sure… how could they ever be sure? Do they read minds and only you knew about this?


nah, you’ve proven you got the comprehensive skill of a new born… aka none at all.
I’m glad you took the time to post on my thread because you are the exact representation of a Zorotard that I wanted. You are exactly what I think of, when I think ztard.


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## Beast (Jan 3, 2023)

Pimp of Pimps said:


> King is a first mate, Big Mom is a Emporor. One is obviously much more significant than the other.


Nah, you don’t say. I wonder why?


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## Great Potato (Jan 3, 2023)

Incognitos said:


> - SNIP -



PoPs and I have a long history, we ran TMF together for years before it went defunct. The landscape of this forum has changed a lot, but he was one of the premiere front-runners who helped establish and evolve the early era of the One Piece Battledome back in the era of guys like Coruscation and Pacifista, and he had a lot of takes that went against the grain at the time that ended up aging quite well.

For example, he was adamant that Doflamingo was inferior to Whitebeard's top commanders and would get fodderized by a top-tier in battle, and that even the G4 Luffy who batted him around was garbage compared to a real top tier. This was at a time where many tried pushing Doflamingo as Admiral level; now it's near universally recognized that Doflamingo nor DR Luffy belonged anywhere near that conversation of actual top dogs.

Reactions: Friendly 1


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## Pimp of Pimps (Jan 3, 2023)

Beast said:


> CP0 only bet made a suggestion hence the unlikely because they are not sure… how could they ever be sure? Do they read minds and only you knew about this?
> 
> 
> nah, you’ve proven you got the comprehensive skill of a new born… aka none at all.
> I’m glad you took the time to post on my thread because you are the exact representation of a Zorotard that I wanted. You are exactly what I think of, when I think ztard.


CP0 made a statement. I am saying there is zero reason to go against what they said. And yes, they used the word unlikely. Which means just defeating the Emperors might end the conflict, but most probably not. 

This isn't even about Luffy and Zoro. You are taking a very clear manga panel and going against it for no good reason. Funny thing is when you thought they said the opposite you used them as proof just because you thought they agreed with you.


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## o0Shinthi0o (Jan 3, 2023)

Pimp of Pimps said:


> Your common sense doesn't know more than CP0.


off course i know more , when CP0 guy was unconscious , i saw Sanji felt Luffys haki . Did CP0 guy know that ? 
Did CP0 guy ever in his life witnessed 2 Yonkou falling by rookies in an isolated country like this to make a legit guess whats gonna happen next  ? No ? so, he does not know what he is talking about, we reader know , cause we can see this with our own eyes .

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Pimp of Pimps (Jan 3, 2023)

Great Potato said:


> PoPs and I have a long history, we ran TMF together for years before it went defunct. The landscape of this forum has changed a lot, but he was one of the premiere front-runners who helped establish and evolve the early era of the One Piece Battledome back in the era of guys like Coruscation and Pacifista, and he had a lot of takes that went against the grain at the time that ended up aging quite well.
> 
> For example, he was adamant that Doflamingo was inferior to Whitebeard's top commanders and would get fodderized by a top-tier in battle, and that even the G4 Luffy who batted him around was garbage compared to a real top tier. This was at a time where many tried pushing Doflamingo as Admiral level; now it's near universally recognized that Doflamingo nor DR Luffy belonged anywhere near that conversation of actual top dogs.


Those were good times.


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## Beast (Jan 3, 2023)

Great Potato said:


> PoPs and I have a long history, we ran TMF together for years before it went defunct. The landscape of this forum has changed a lot, but he was one of the premiere front-runners who helped establish and evolve the early era of the One Piece Battledome back in the era of guys like Coruscation and Pacifista, and he had a lot of takes that went against the grain at the time that ended up aging quite well.
> 
> For example, he was adamant that Doflamingo was inferior to Whitebeard's top commanders and would get fodderized by a top-tier in battle, and that even the G4 Luffy who batted him around was garbage compared to a real top tier. This was at a time where many tried pushing Doflamingo as Admiral level; now it's near universally recognized that Doflamingo nor DR Luffy belonged anywhere near that conversation of actual top dogs.


That just means he had shit takes that Oda eventually turned around for.

back in Mf times, there was no denying that DD had the feats and portrayal of top tier.


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## Pimp of Pimps (Jan 3, 2023)

o0Shinthi0o said:


> off course i know more , when CP0 guy was unconscious , i saw Sanji felt Luffys haki . Did CP0 guy know that ?
> Did CP0 guy ever in his life witnessed 2 Yonkou falling by rookies in an isolated country like this to make a legit guess whats gonna happen next  ? No ? so, he does not know what he is talking about, we reader know , cause we can see this with our own eyes .


Not sure how any of that is relevant. They were making a broad statement based on the entire situation, not small details like that.


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## Pimp of Pimps (Jan 3, 2023)

Beast said:


> That just means he had shit takes that Oda eventually turned around for.
> 
> *back in Mf times, there was no denying that DD had the feats and portrayal of top tier.*


It was always obvious Doflamingo couldn't hold a candle to the Emperors or Admirals.

And when I am proven right in this instance you basically just said Oda was wrong. Amazing.


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## o0Shinthi0o (Jan 3, 2023)

Pimp of Pimps said:


> Not sure how any of that is relevant. They were making a broad statement based on the entire situation, not small details like that.


yes, they made an assumption and WE READERS saw how it playes out long after CP0 guy got clubbed and Nika Luffy came out . US reads saw fact and CP0 guys made baseless assumption ( seeing he has never been in this kind of situation b4 )


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## Pimp of Pimps (Jan 3, 2023)

o0Shinthi0o said:


> yes, they made an assumption and WE READERS saw how it playes out long after CP0 guy got clubbed and Nika Luffy came out . US reads saw fact and CP0 guys made baseless assumption ( seeing he has never been in this kind of situation b4 )


What does Nika Luffy have to do with anything? Luffy awakening his fruit doesn't somehow change the fact that only defeating the Emperors and not the executives would be unlikely to end the conflict. Not sure what's so hard to understand.


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## Beast (Jan 3, 2023)

Pimp of Pimps said:


> CP0 made a statement. I am saying there is zero reason to go against what they said. And yes, they used the word unlikely. Which means just defeating the Emperors might end the conflict, but most probably not.
> 
> This isn't even about Luffy and Zoro. You are taking a very clear manga panel and going against it for no good reason. Funny thing is when you thought they said the opposite you used them as proof just because you thought they agreed with you.


Except the manga itself and our common sense, hence you have none, so you don’t get it.

CP0 can not ever confirm what others will or will not do. Heck, they were wrong multiple times as they thought the war would be swiftly won by Kaidou and his men just off the numbers. Unlikely and probably aren’t facts. Their statement of the yonko something, they were confident in.

nah, you just can’t read. Unlikely does not confirm that they will or will not fight. CP0 has no way of confirming this or backing it up. They suggestions/ opinions or statements are not fact. Queen said King is unbeatable, so… king should have never been defeated?

it’s more a reason, you’re blatantly obtuse about the information in front of  you and I’ll consistently clown you for it, day and night.


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## Beast (Jan 3, 2023)

Pimp of Pimps said:


> It was always obvious Doflamingo couldn't hold a candle to the Emperors or Admirals.
> 
> And when I am proven right in this instance you basically just said Oda was wrong. Amazing.


No it wasn’t.

and there’s a reason, you leap from point to point. You actually have no reason for why Zoro is stronger than Kidd in this thread.

and the rest is you making a fool of yourself.


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## o0Shinthi0o (Jan 3, 2023)

Pimp of Pimps said:


> What does Nika Luffy have to do with anything? Luffy awakening his fruit doesn't somehow change the fact that only defeating the Emperors and not the executives would be unlikely to end the conflict. Not sure what's so hard to understand.


i said clearly what we saw is fact (cause we saw what happened first to last , unlike CP0 guy ) and what CP0 guy assumed is baseless cause he has no experience in this kind of situation .


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## Pimp of Pimps (Jan 3, 2023)

Beast said:


> Except the manga itself and our common sense, hence you have none, so you don’t get it.
> 
> CP0 can not ever confirm what others will or will not do. Heck, they were wrong multiple times as they thought the war would be swiftly won by Kaidou and his men just off the numbers. Unlikely and probably aren’t facts. Their statement of the yonko was a fact they were confident in.
> 
> ...


CP0 didn't make a statement about what other will or will not do, at least in that page. They were just making a statement that only defeating the Emperors would be unlikely to resolve the conflict. If you think otherwise, then you should be able to provide some sort of proof that ONLy defeating the Emperors would finish the battle. 

It's one thing to say they were wrong, but you need some sort of backing from the manga. You can't just make things up.


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## Pimp of Pimps (Jan 3, 2023)

Beast said:


> No it wasn’t.
> 
> and there’s a reason, you leap from point to point. You actually have no reason for why Zoro is stronger than Kidd in this thread.
> 
> and the rest is you making a fool of yourself.


So it wasn't obvious Doflamingo wasn't top-tier, yet myself and other had always said he wasn't a top-tier based on what the manga showed us. And when we were proved right, you still refuse to admit you were wrong. When you get to the point where you say the author was wrong there's no return.


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## Incognitos (Jan 3, 2023)

Great Potato said:


> PoPs and I have a long history, we ran TMF together for years before it went defunct. The landscape of this forum has changed a lot, but he was one of the premiere front-runners who helped establish and evolve the early era of the One Piece Battledome back in the era of guys like Coruscation and Pacifista, and he had a lot of takes that went against the grain at the time that ended up aging quite well.
> 
> For example, he was adamant that Doflamingo was inferior to Whitebeard's top commanders and would get fodderized by a top-tier in battle, and that even the G4 Luffy who batted him around was garbage compared to a real top tier. This was at a time where many tried pushing Doflamingo as Admiral level; now it's near universally recognized that Doflamingo nor DR Luffy belonged anywhere near that conversation of actual top dogs.


Unfortunately he's now arguing for Zoro > Kid

You understand he is my enemy


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## Unresponsive (Jan 3, 2023)

MrPopo said:


> Yeah no Oda doesn't write the entire databooks he has his editors do that which is why databooks like blue are riddled with incorrect information


 What about his statement when he said he was writing one piece yellow?


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## Pimp of Pimps (Jan 3, 2023)

Incognitos said:


> Unfortunately he's now arguing for Zoro > Kid
> 
> You understand he is my enemy


I actually think it’s likely Kidd is stronger, but that Zoro will catch up soon enough.


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## Incognitos (Jan 3, 2023)

Pimp of Pimps said:


> I actually think it’s likely Kidd is stronger, but that Zoro will catch up soon enough.


You don't think Kid will continue to grow? Laws currently 1v1ing BB. Zoro is 1v1ing Kaku

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Pimp of Pimps (Jan 3, 2023)

Incognitos said:


> You don't think Kid will continue to grow? Laws currently 1v1ing BB. Zoro is 1v1ing Kaku


That’s a weird comparison to make, since Law won’t be as strong as BB and Zoro will eat Kaku alive.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 3


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## Beast (Jan 3, 2023)

Pimp of Pimps said:


> CP0 didn't make a statement about what other will or will not do, at least in that page. They were just making a statement that only defeating the Emperors would be unlikely to resolve the conflict. If you think otherwise, then you should be able to provide some sort of proof that ONLy defeating the Emperors would finish the battle.
> 
> It's one thing to say they were wrong, but you need some sort of backing from the manga. You can't just make things up.


They did, they made a suggestion on the actions of kaidous subordinates, if the general aka Kaidou was taken out. Don’t know where you learned English but you’re going in circles. CP0 saying that is exactly… a suggestion, there is no way to confirm their suggestions. Well, there is nothing to discuss because it only happened one way anyway. The yonko were defeated last. CP0 made an observation, statement, suggestion, theory, or however you want to describe it, it’s the same thing ever single time. Something they can not prove, not me or Shin above me. and I’ve made it clear had Kaidou been taken down, no one else was worthy of following as we saw during the wano arc, King, Queen and Jack are unable to lead the rest of the crew because they don’t respect the same as they do Kaidou and his strength. It’s why Queen has to do planning with the likes of WW to get down Drake or King having to lie using Kaidous name to even get the F6 to do anything for him. So, no there is many reasons as to why that statement is not a fact but the truth is for otherwise.

you tried to correct me on a single sentence withou reading the whole post and now, you out here arguing CP0 made statements as manga fact like an idiot.

Next time read and reply back to whole posts because I’ve already explain no one could lead those pirates but Kaidou and BM because they don’t listen to or respect each other.


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## Pimp of Pimps (Jan 3, 2023)

Beast said:


> They did, they made a suggestion on the actions of kaidous subordinates, if the general aka Kaidou was taken out. Don’t know where you learned English but you’re going in circles. CP0 saying that is exactly… a suggestion, there is no way to confirm their suggestions. Well, there is nothing to discuss because it only happened one way anyway. The yonko were defeated last. CP0 made an observation, statement, suggestion, theory, or however you want to describe it, it’s the same thing ever single time. Something they can not prove, not me or Shin above me. and I’ve made it clear had Kaidou been taken down, no one else was worthy of following as we saw during the wano arc, King, Queen and Jack are unable to lead the rest of the crew because they don’t respect the same as they do Kaidou and his strength. It’s why Queen has to do planning with the likes of WW to get down Drake or King having to lie using Kaidous name to even get the F6 to do anything for him. So, no there is many reasons as to why that statement is not a fact but the truth is for otherwise.
> 
> you tried to correct me on a single sentence withou reading the whole post and now, you out here arguing CP0 made statements as manga fact like an idiot.
> 
> Next time read and reply back to whole posts because I’ve already explain no one could lead those pirates but Kaidou and BM because they don’t listen to or respect each other.


Really interesting that when you thought CP0 said something you agreed with, you used their statement as evidence. When it turns out they said the opposite, you are saying CP0 is wrong. When GP mentioned I predicted Doflamingo wasn't a top-tier, you essentially said Oda messed up. I'm noticing a pattern here. 

The rest of the stuff you are saying is a lot of heavy speculation you are passing off as fact.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Neutral 1


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## Kagutsutchi (Jan 3, 2023)

Pimp of Pimps said:


> Yeah, so they go hand in hand. Just defeating Kaido and Big Mom won't win them the war, but neither would just defeating executives.


So that means Jack and Nekomamushi are equal to Kaido


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## Inferno Jewls (Jan 3, 2023)

All of you mid fans delete ya acounts Zoro is stronger

Reactions: Funny 2 | Winner 3 | Optimistic 2


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## Pimp of Pimps (Jan 3, 2023)

Kagutsutchi said:


> So that means Jack and Nekomamushi are equal to Kaido


I have absolutely no idea what you are saying. How did you gleam that from what I said?


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## Kagutsutchi (Jan 3, 2023)

Pimp of Pimps said:


> I have absolutely no idea what you are saying. How did you gleam that from what I said?


Because you're putting defeating Big Mom and Kaido on the same level as defeating the Calamities.

Big Mom and Kaido, together or alone are as good as/better than the rest of Kaido's forces combined. Even putting together the calamities


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## Pimp of Pimps (Jan 3, 2023)

Kagutsutchi said:


> Because you're putting defeating Big Mom and Kaido on the same level as defeating the Calamities.
> 
> Big Mom and Kaido, together or alone are as good as/better than the rest of Kaido's forces combined. Even putting together the calamities


No I'm not. Not sure how you got that. in a battle, just defeating the leader might not always be enough. In this case the CP0 is saying that in order to ensure that the fighting stops and in favor of Luffy and co, they would most likely need to defeat both the Emperors and the executives. IE - It's unlikely teh executives would just stop only because their captains were defeated.


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## Oda Report (Jan 3, 2023)

Beast said:


> @Oda Report got me dying, putting in that extra work for those like and winner ratings to help @Pimp of Pimps retarded ass takes.



I'm use to you being mad but never jealous.   



Beast said:


> Zoro will never be equal to Luffy or Law or Kidd.



You are right because Zoro pretty much outclassed Law and Kid on the Rooftop and was the only one along side Luffy to use AdCoC in the same arc where it was stated only the strongest can, but not the so called rival wisdom kings.

Reactions: Funny 1 | Winner 2 | Tier Specialist 1


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## verified (Jan 3, 2023)

Kidd losing his other arm if he meets Zoro alone

Reactions: Funny 1 | Dislike 1


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## Inferno Jewls (Jan 3, 2023)

Sanji reacted to my post with an optimistic on a kidd vs zoro thread   

@TheWiggian does the sanji fandom salt follow Zoro in any thread

Reactions: Funny 1


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## truedetectiveseason2intro (Jan 3, 2023)

Pimp of Pimps said:


> Very low difficulty. Don’t try me.


You used to say mid back in the day tho right?

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## Pimp of Pimps (Jan 3, 2023)

truedetectiveseason2intro said:


> You used to say mid back in the day tho right?


The very first time we saw Vista and Mihawk fight I considered this, but wasn’t dead set on it either. I don’t think mid makes sense anymore though. My main contention is that Vista isn’t someone Mihawk or Emperors could just swat away in their sleep.


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## Piecesis (Jan 3, 2023)

Inferno Jewls said:


> Sanji reacted to my post with an optimistic on a kidd vs zoro thread
> 
> @TheWiggian does the sanji fandom salt follow Zoro in any thread


Zoro's salt would follow too if he didn't get lost in threads that are out of his league.

Reactions: Funny 6 | Optimistic 3


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## Unresponsive (Jan 3, 2023)

Beast said:


> mods I’m going to post a picture and all 160 voters for Zoro better have that picture as their avi.


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## convict (Jan 3, 2023)

So many potshots and insults thrown around

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Sanji (Jan 3, 2023)

Inferno Jewls said:


> Sanji reacted to my post with an optimistic on a kidd vs zoro thread
> 
> @TheWiggian does the sanji fandom salt follow Zoro in any thread



When you say silly shit it’s only natural that people will look at you funny

Reactions: Funny 2 | Winner 1 | Optimistic 1


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## fenaker (Jan 3, 2023)

MrPopo said:


> Yeah no Oda doesn't write the entire databooks he has his editors do that which is why databooks like blue are riddled with incorrect information


Oda mentioned that databook in his sbs , and encouraged fans to read it if what u said is true he wouldn't do that nor he would confirm its crediblity by straight up asking fans to read it , Also if Oda doesn't know shit about Yellow databook why he even mentioned the content of the databook which correlated with what he asker asked ? straight hedcanons and cope that what Law tards do around


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## MrPopo (Jan 4, 2023)

fenaker said:


> Oda mentioned that databook in his sbs , and encouraged fans to read it if what u said is true he wouldn't do that nor he would confirm its crediblity by straight up asking fans to read it , Also if Oda doesn't know shit about Yellow databook why he even mentioned the content of the databook which correlated with what he asker asked ? straight hedcanons and cope that what Law tards do around


Oda can still give them cannon information like what he does with the magazines aka devil fruit names and designs doesn't mean the entire databook is cannon and surprised by Oda. It's no different than with the magazines 

Furthermore Oda encourages the reader to read the databook because that's where the answer to the readers question can found (the name of the devil fruit) that's why he brought up the databook


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## fenaker (Jan 4, 2023)

MrPopo said:


> Oda can still give them cannon information like what he does with the magazines aka devil fruit names and designs doesn't mean the entire databook is cannon and surprised by Oda. It's no different than with the magazines
> 
> Furthermore Oda encourages the reader to read the databook because that's where the answer to the readers question can found (the name of the devil fruit) that's why he brought up the databook


u said Oda doesn't know shit about those databooks and Editors bluh bluh.... the same Oda is the one who brought out that same Databook and asked fans to read it and mentioned the informations that the asker asked which was also found in that same databook . that alone kills whatever headcanons u try to cope with , Oda never mentioned any magazines It's just VC and Databooks that were mentioned so far in his sbs when he tries to answer the questions by bringing them out to show that he already answered those questions out .

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 1


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## MrPopo (Jan 4, 2023)

fenaker said:


> u said Oda doesn't know shit about those databooks and Editors bluh bluh.... the same Oda is the one who brought out that same Databook and asked fans to read it and mentioned the informations that the asker asked which was also found in that same databook . that alone kills whatever headcanons u try to cope with ,


Yeah a databook having the name of a devil fruit destroys my headcannon 


fenaker said:


> Oda never mentioned any magazines It's just VC and Databooks that were mentioned so far in his sbs when he tries to answer the questions by bringing them out to show that he already answered those questions out .


The same applies to the magazine if someone where to ask what crocodile's fruit looks like Oda would mention the relevant magazine.  Also the point is that the magazines have cannon information and some involvement form Oda however the entire magazine isn't cannon which is similar to how the databooks are done. 

Furthermore yellow isn't even the only databook that Oda 's also mentioned blue in and sbs and guess what that databook is dogshit or do you believe mihawk = vista as that very same databook mentions that


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## Wh1p (Jan 4, 2023)

How tf did this thread turn into Zoro vs Luffy


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## Oda Report (Jan 4, 2023)

Wh1p said:


> How tf did this thread turn into Zoro vs Luffy



because Kid is that weak and uninteresting, cant even keep the spot light in his own thread without being overshadowed like in wano.

Reactions: Funny 3 | Winner 1


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## Wh1p (Jan 4, 2023)

I believe the legitimate Kid and Law fandoms are not that large, but the main people that push Kid/Law > Zoro are actually Sanji fans in disguise or Luffytards that got tired of those Zoro = Luffy crackheads. Zoro > Kid is quite blatant for a Straw Hat enjoyer like me.

Reactions: Winner 2


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## o0Shinthi0o (Jan 4, 2023)

verified said:


> Kidd losing his other arm if he meets Zoro alone


And Zoro loses his other eye if he meets Kidd alone

Reactions: GODA 1


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## fenaker (Jan 4, 2023)

MrPopo said:


> Yeah a databook having the name of a devil fruit destroys my headcannon


Oda :



I have announced it in a fanbook called Yellow Databook and ppl who don't have it .........


MrPopo said:


> The same applies to the magazine if someone where to ask what crocodile's fruit looks like Oda would mention the relevant magazine. Also the point is that the magazines have cannon information and some involvement form Oda however the entire magazine isn't cannon which is similar to how the databooks are done.



Talking outta ur ass :










Dude tried to act smart by mentioning magazines where Oda never mentioned shits about them , it's all about Databooks and Sbs and VC is the last Databook with each update over characters .

I don't think u would say VCs are wrong because Zoro isn't listed as a conqueror whilst Manga showed that , that's how ass you are right now where Oda mentioned each Databook without trying to stab its credibility and encouraged fans to read them and what's funny is Oda himself knows what's inside them and explained each point .
U got no arguments , all u were saying is headcanons and trash ass arguments .


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## Great Potato (Jan 4, 2023)

Wh1p said:


> I believe the legitimate Kid and Law fandoms are not that large, but the main people that push Kid/Law > Zoro are actually Sanji fans in disguise or Luffytards





Those are some very humble Sanji fans to carry Kid to top 20 and Law to 2nd when they could have consolidated those votes to take a landslide victory for themselves.

Reactions: Funny 3


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## Sanji (Jan 4, 2023)

Great Potato said:


> Those are some very humble Sanji fans to carry Kid to top 20 and Law to 2nd when they could have consolidated those votes to take a landslide victory for themselves.



We're very generous

Reactions: Friendly 1


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## Incognitos (Jan 4, 2023)

Great Potato said:


> Those are some very humble Sanji fans to carry Kid to top 20 and Law to 2nd when they could have consolidated those votes to take a landslide victory for themselves.


I'm suprised kid has more fans than shanks and robin


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## Incognitos (Jan 4, 2023)

Sanji said:


> We're very generous


You can't take the credit for nottommy


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## Firo (Jan 4, 2023)

Great Potato said:


> Those are some very humble Sanji fans to carry Kid to top 20 and Law to 2nd when they could have consolidated those votes to take a landslide victory for themselves.


I find it funny how people would claim others that think other characters are stronger than Zoro are bitter Sanji or Luffy fans

Reactions: Agree 3


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## Wh1p (Jan 4, 2023)

Well, the worldwide poll let fans vote for different characters any time they wanted. Many fans like myself would vote for multiple of their favourites. Not sure how this Japan only poll worked though, and it's funny that you selected the dressrosa one when law was at his most popular. Hey, at least it proves that there's barely any kid fans.


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## Wh1p (Jan 4, 2023)

And yes, most people I've argued Zoro vs Law with were either Sanji or Luffy fans.


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## MrPopo (Jan 4, 2023)

fenaker said:


> Oda :
> 
> 
> 
> ...


> Oda isn't fully involved with the databooks (except green)
> These databooks should be taken with a grain of salt

You can't even be consistent and agree Mihawk = Vista because of the databooks

Edit also Oda mentions bonus materials in the sbs which is what the one piece magazines are


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## Seraphoenix (Jan 4, 2023)

MrPopo said:


> > Oda isn't fully involved with the databooks (except green)
> > These databooks should be taken with a grain of salt
> 
> You can't even be consistent and agree Mihawk = Vista because of the databooks


Which databook says Vista is as strong as Mihawk?


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## NotTommy (Jan 4, 2023)

I feel like this isn't really gonna lead to either side conceeding but I suppose it doesn't have to (so long as I don't lose any bet, I bet for Kid). Having long threads or even megathreads dedicated to match-ups or long-standing arguments makes more sense than multiple threads on the same subject so I think this sticking around is fine.

My takes:
-Zoro's rooftop performance was more impressive than Kid and Law's and we have him besting Kaido in that specific instance while injured (after temporarily halting hakai before getting wrecked) and unable to go further while Law was shocked at his display and Kid moved on to other things.
-On the other hand, Kid and Law didn't show their trump cards on the rooftop and they went on to accomplish more than Zoro did (scarring Kaido, beating King) by pressuring Big Mom, breaking her bones and drawing blood from her, causing her to amp herself, pinning her down to the point she's unable to get up or deflect Kid's Damned Punk like she claimed then blowing her away and ultimately beating Big Mom.

Portrayal-wise, Kid and Law gained 3 billion berrie bounties and were known, along with Luffy, as the 3 Wisdom Kings. 
-Zoro became accustomed to enma and utilising Conqueror's haki, dubbing himself the King of Hell after dominating and defeating King.

My verdict, they're all very close with the Captains edging out in portrayal and Zoro edging out as far as potential attacks go seeing as we didn't see the extent of his King of Hell attacks. As far as feats they've dished out go, I think it's debate but I'd side with Law taking the cake (Puncture Wille) and Kid and Zoro being fairly close. 

Also, personally I don't subscribe to Luffy and Zoro being equals or even near-equals at this point but I think the argument it'll always be atleast high difficulty win for Luffy is reasonable considering how close they used to be and the significance of crew dynamics. Though with Law vs Teach underway, it's clear the gap between Luffy and the other Captains may not be to a ridiculous extent.

Reactions: Like 4


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## MrPopo (Jan 4, 2023)

Seraphoenix said:


> Which databook says Vista is as strong as Mihawk?


Deep blue the same one that says Marco = Admirals


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## Seraphoenix (Jan 4, 2023)

MrPopo said:


> Deep blue the same one that says Marco = Admirals


The Marco one is correct, yes. We've seen that no admiral can overpower him without some distraction.

I don't see anything saying Vista is as strong as Mihawk. Just that he displayed sword skills on par with Mihawk. Which doesn't say much, as Mihawk wasn't going all out.


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## MrPopo (Jan 4, 2023)

Seraphoenix said:


> The Marco one is correct, yes. We've seen that no admiral can overpower him without some distraction.
> 
> I don't see anything saying Vista is as strong as Mihawk. Just that he displayed sword skills on par with Mihawk. Which doesn't say much, as Mihawk wasn't going all out.


Says they Vista had equal sword skills with their fight what else does a swordsmen use


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## Seraphoenix (Jan 4, 2023)

MrPopo said:


> Says they Vista had equal sword skills with their fight what else does a swordsmen use


It says he showed equal sword skills. If Mihawk was only playing around at Vista level and not taking it seriously, then they displayed the same level of skill. That doesn't mean they are equal. You can display equal fighting skills as a 10-year-old by holding back a lot. That doesn't mean you are equal in a serious fight.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Nello (Jan 4, 2023)

NotTommy said:


> dubbing himself the King of Hell


Such a raw cringe feat should give Zoro an automatic L as far as portrayal goes

Reactions: Funny 1


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## MrPopo (Jan 4, 2023)

Seraphoenix said:


> It says he showed equal sword skills. If Mihawk was only playing around at Vista level and not taking it seriously, then they displayed the same level of skill. That doesn't mean they are equal. You can display equal fighting skills as a 10-year-old by holding back a lot. That doesn't mean you are equal in a serious fight.


Mihawk is always serious


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## Seraphoenix (Jan 4, 2023)

MrPopo said:


> Mihawk is always serious


Yoru has a minimum power output. That doesn't mean it's close to maximum when he uses it casually


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## MartyMcFly1 (Jan 4, 2023)

If I’m being honest, I don’t think Kidd is even close to Shanks’ strength right now.

It wouldn’t surprise me if Zoro was pretty damn close to Mihawk in strength at this very moment.


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## The crazy hacker (Jan 4, 2023)

MartyMcFly1 said:


> If I’m being honest, I don’t think Kidd is even close to Shanks’ strength right now.
> 
> It wouldn’t surprise me if Zoro was pretty damn close to Mihawk in strength at this very moment.


Mihawk is 3 major fights away and his final fight most likely. There should still be a significant gap.


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## TheWiggian (Jan 4, 2023)

MartyMcFly1 said:


> If I’m being honest, I don’t think Kidd is even close to Shanks’ strength right now.
> 
> It wouldn’t surprise me if Zoro was pretty damn close to Mihawk in strength at this very moment.



Zoro gives Mihawk no more than mid diff... Kid on the other hand low at best considering he can't magnetize a paper sword that been painted black.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## MartyMcFly1 (Jan 4, 2023)

The crazy hacker said:


> Mihawk is 3 major fights away and his final fight most likely. There should still be a significant gap.





TheWiggian said:


> Zoro gives Mihawk no more than mid diff... Kid on the other hand low at best considering he can't magnetize a paper sword that been painted black.


I doubt it. When I’m estimating how close someone is to their endgame strength, I think about what powerups they actually need to reach that level. Zoro has ACoC and ACoA, his swords _are_ black when he’s fighting. What specifically would he need to reach Mihawks level other than that?


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## The crazy hacker (Jan 4, 2023)

MartyMcFly1 said:


> I doubt it. When I’m estimating how close someone is to their endgame strength, I think about what powerups they actually need to reach that level. Zoro has ACoC and ACoA, his swords _are_ black when he’s fighting. What specifically would he need to reach Mihawks level other than that?


I think Zoro will unlock another level of ACoC and get black blades.

Zoro will fight Shiryu, an admiral and then Mihawk. That is 3 major fights so he still has a good amount of growth to go.


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## MartyMcFly1 (Jan 4, 2023)

The crazy hacker said:


> I think Zoro will unlock another level of ACoC on the level of Shanks and get black blades.


Roger didn’t have a black blade, or Shanks and we know he’s at least comparable to Mihawk. Also, Zoro’s blades are black while he’s engaged in combat.

Now let’s do Kidd: Kidd is physically strong and has awakening and we know he has CoC, but he also has zero impressive haki feats. No ACoA, ACoC or ACoO. In my opinion he needs to master all 3 to even be in the top tier conversation or comparable to Shanks or Mihawk. Maybe he’ll do that before the next time we see him, but I highly doubt it.


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## The crazy hacker (Jan 4, 2023)

MartyMcFly1 said:


> Roger didn’t have a black blade, or Shanks and we know he’s at least comparable to Mihawk. Also, Zoro’s blades are black while he’s engaged in combat.
> 
> Now let’s do Kidd: Kidd is physically strong and has awakening and we know he has CoC, but he also has zero impressive haki feats. No ACoA, ACoC or ACoO. In my opinion he needs to master all 3 to even be in the top tier conversation or comparable to Shanks or Mihawk. Maybe he’ll do that before the next time we see him, but I highly doubt it.


Shanks has far better haki feats than Zoro as demonstated in wano. Mihawk is on par with Shanks power wise with him being an ACoA specialist as seen with a black blade.

Zoro hasn't touched the top of his abilities haki wise. Luffy hasn't either. They just started using ACoC.

Kidd can unlock ACoC and I think he already has ACoA.

I think Zoro gives Mihawk an upper mid diff fight currently.


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## TheWiggian (Jan 4, 2023)

MartyMcFly1 said:


> I doubt it. When I’m estimating how close someone is to their endgame strength, I think about what powerups they actually need to reach that level. Zoro has ACoC and ACoA, his swords _are_ black when he’s fighting. What specifically would he need to reach Mihawks level other than that?



Definitely stats and obviously better observation to even challenge someone who has the epithet of the clairvoyant. I see zoro at least having 1 major fight before facing Mihawk. Shiryu could be his CoO boost, Seraphim or logia admiral his CoA boost while his stats grow with training and island boosts as his name echos through the entire world, boosting the dormant conqueror in him until it reaches the heavens.


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## MartyMcFly1 (Jan 4, 2023)

The crazy hacker said:


> Shanks has far better haki feats than Zoro as demonstated in wano. Mihawk is on par with Shanks power wise with him being an ACoA specialist as seen with a black blade.
> 
> Zoro hasn't touched the top of his abilities haki wise. Luffy hasn't either. They just started using ACoC.
> 
> ...


In my opinion Mihawk definitely has ACoC. I think it’s a requirement to be able to fight Shanks. Shanks has better haki feats than Kaido but I guarantee their ACoC would still clash evenly.

Throughout the entire Yonkou Saga I had a lot of specific questions about power levels. “Why is Luffy so weak, why are his punches so weak, what does he need to split the heavens like the other Yonkou, why are Kaido and Big Mom so strong and durable, how is Shanks on their level without a devil fruit, could Mihawk/Garp keep up with the Yonkou, how could they without devil fruit’s???????”

ACoC at its introduction answered almost every one of those questions. I think people are deceiving themselves by downplaying haki.

Why would you think Kidd has ACoA?

Reactions: Like 1


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## TheWiggian (Jan 4, 2023)

MartyMcFly1 said:


> In my opinion Mihawk definitely has ACoC. I think it’s a requirement to be able to fight Shanks.
> 
> Throughout the entire Yonkou Saga I had a lot of specific questions about power levels. “Why is Luffy so weak, why are his punches so weak, what does he need to split the heavens like the other Yonkou, why are Kaido and Big Mom so strong and durable, how is Shanks on their level without a devil fruit, could Mihawk/Garp keep up with the Yonkou, how could they without devil fruit’s,”
> 
> ...



Let's be real here, same people that been theorizing an advanced version of supreme king haki and hyped it for decades threw it all under the bus once moss got it.

Reactions: Funny 1 | Winner 1


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## The crazy hacker (Jan 4, 2023)

MartyMcFly1 said:


> In my opinion Mihawk definitely has ACoC. I think it’s a requirement to be able to fight Shanks. Shanks has better haki feats than Kaido but I guarantee their ACoC would still clash evenly.


Yeah I agree Mihawk has ACoC. Kaido can beat him with his hybrid form and flame dragon form but he needs those meaning his haki is significantly below Shanks.


MartyMcFly1 said:


> Throughout the entire Yonkou Saga I had a lot of specific questions about power levels. “Why is Luffy so weak, why are his punches so weak, what does he need to split the heavens like the other Yonkou, why are Kaido and Big Mom so strong and durable, how is Shanks on their level without a devil fruit, could Mihawk/Garp keep up with the Yonkou, how could they without devil fruit’s???????”
> 
> ACoC at its introduction answered almost every one of those questions. I think people are deceiving themselves by downplaying haki.


Yeah but then we saw what Shanks could do with ACoC and it was significantly above what Zoro, Luffy and Kaido could do. Him paralysing an admiral and making him have fear from kms away, showing telepathy from kms away and being able to cancel out observation haki is ridiculous.


MartyMcFly1 said:


> Why would you think Kidd has ACoA?


Him being able to harm BM. I don't think anyone without at least ACoA can significantly damage a yonkou.


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## verified (Jan 4, 2023)

o0Shinthi0o said:


> And Zoro loses his other eye if he meets Kidd alone


Kidd's nuts and bolts aren't doing anything of use lol


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## Rp4lyf (Jan 4, 2023)

The crazy hacker said:


> Yeah I agree Mihawk has ACoC. Kaido can beat him with his hybrid form and flame dragon form but he needs those meaning his haki is significantly below Shanks.
> 
> Yeah but then we saw what Shanks could do with ACoC and it was significantly above what Zoro, Luffy and Kaido could do. Him paralysing an admiral and making him have fear from kms away, showing telepathy from kms away and being able to cancel out observation haki is ridiculous.
> 
> Him being able to harm BM. I don't think anyone without at least ACoA can significantly damage a yonkou.


anyone can harm big momwith enoguh force. She used Flaming armament haki hardening to block a normal basic haki Gear 4 WCI Kong gun, indicating that the attack would have hurt her without her using Hardening.


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## Incognitos (Jan 4, 2023)

TheWiggian said:


> Let's be real here, same people that been theorizing an advanced version of supreme king haki and hyped it for decades threw it all under the bus once moss got it.


And you'll do the same when Kid gets it.


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## TheWiggian (Jan 4, 2023)

Incognitos said:


> And you'll do the same when Kid gets it.



Let Kid get it first then we'll see


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## Incognitos (Jan 4, 2023)

TheWiggian said:


> Let Kid get it first then we'll see


Double standards once again. Rules for thee but not for me


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## TheWiggian (Jan 4, 2023)

Incognitos said:


> Double standards once again. Rules for thee but not for me



Glad you admit that you downplay an entire concept just because Zoro got a power-up from it.


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## Ar1sE (Jan 4, 2023)

Kid >~ Zoro
#zorofanhere


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## TheWiggian (Jan 4, 2023)

Zoro > Kid
#kidfanhere


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## Incognitos (Jan 4, 2023)

TheWiggian said:


> Glad you admit that you downplay an entire concept just because Zoro got a power-up from it.


I never admitted to downplaying it. I've never really thought that highly of advcoc and it wasn't because of zoro that caused that. It was Yamato. I also don't think that highly of advcoo or advcoa. 

But very nice deflection. Good try


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## TheWiggian (Jan 4, 2023)

TheWiggian said:


> Let's be real here, same people that been theorizing an advanced version of supreme king haki and hyped it for decades threw it all under the bus once moss got it.





Incognitos said:


> And *you'll do the same* when Kid gets it.



It's OK bruh


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## Incognitos (Jan 4, 2023)

TheWiggian said:


> It's OK bruh


I am not referring to the same as in I do that. I'm referring to the same as in the people you are calling out. This is why I called it a double standard. 

A double standard "a rule or principle which is unfairly applied in different ways to different people or groups." 

You are the person declaring the rule in your original post and are going to unfairly apply it to kid. 

I'm not even flaming or trying to be mean but are you ESL? There's a lot of English semantics that you seem to miss in posts and there seem to be words or phrases that you don't understand that I find common in people who don't speak English as their primary language.


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## Incognitos (Jan 4, 2023)

If you are kudos. Your English is a lot better than my Spanish.


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## TheWiggian (Jan 4, 2023)

Incognitos said:


> I am not referring to the same as in I do that. I'm referring to the same as in the people you are calling out. This is why I called it a double standard.
> 
> A double standard "a rule or principle which is unfairly applied in different ways to different people or groups."
> 
> ...



I am not calling out anyone though else I'd be mentioning dozens of people 

I never unfairly applied any rule to Kid cuz Kid would first need to unlock AdvCoC for that to happen. 

A huge ass text that does nothing but attacking a strawman again.


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## Incognitos (Jan 5, 2023)

TheWiggian said:


> I am not calling out anyone though else I'd be mentioning dozens of people
> 
> I never unfairly applied any rule to Kid cuz Kid would first need to unlock AdvCoC for that to happen.
> 
> A huge ass text that does nothing but attacking a strawman again.


No but when I asked you if you'd apply the rule to kid you said it depends, that implies it's not a rule, rules are absolute. 

1+1=2 is a rule. 
1+1=it depends isn't a rule. It's a conditional statement. 

If you say advcoc is a certain level of power-up for one character but not for another it doesn't become a rule. And the hypocrisy lies in that you're admonishing other people for doing the same thing with zoro.


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## Incognitos (Jan 5, 2023)

TheWiggian said:


> Let's be real here, same people that been theorizing an advanced version of supreme king haki and hyped it for decades threw it all under the bus once moss got it.





TheWiggian said:


> Let Kid get it first then we'll see


These are directly contradictory statements, you can't in good faith admonish other people for downplaying advcoc because zoro got it if you can't declare without condition that you won't downplay Kid for the same thing. 

The statement let Kid get it first then we'll see is a conditional one, you will determine if you'll use the same standard once kid gets it. 

I'm attempting good faith arguments here, im hoping you will do the same.  it seems to me I might not have been as clear as I could have been. 

Here's my question for you, under the condition that kid gets advcoc will you apply the same standards as you did to zoro when he gets it?


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## TheWiggian (Jan 5, 2023)

Incognitos said:


> No but when I asked you if you'd apply the rule to kid you said it depends, that implies it's not a rule, rules are absolute.
> 
> 1+1=2 is a rule.
> 1+1=it depends isn't a rule. It's a conditional statement.
> ...





Incognitos said:


> These are directly contradictory statements, you can't in good faith admonish other people for downplaying advcoc because zoro got it if you can't declare without condition that you won't downplay Kid for the same thing.
> 
> The statement let Kid get it first then we'll see is a conditional one, you will determine if you'll use the same standard once kid gets it.
> 
> ...



Meaningless wall of text. I could simply mean that Kid never gets to showcase AdvCoC to judge, so it depends while it doesn't in Zoro's case as he already displayed it.


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## Incognitos (Jan 5, 2023)

TheWiggian said:


> Meaningless wall of text. I could simply mean that Kid never gets to showcase AdvCoC to judge, so it depends while it doesn't in Zoro's case as he already displayed it.


Then I ask you once again under the condition that kid gets advcoc will you apply the same standards as you did to zoro when he gets it?


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## TheWiggian (Jan 5, 2023)

Incognitos said:


> Then I ask you once again under the condition that kid gets advcoc will you apply the same standards as you did to zoro when he gets it?



If he does yes, but it will also depend how good his feats with it are. Just because Zoro has AdvCoC doesn't mean his is as powerful as Luffy's for example. Same is going to be applied to Kid but I think it will take some time till that happens.


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## Incognitos (Jan 5, 2023)

TheWiggian said:


> If he does yes, but it will also depend how good his feats with it are. Just because Zoro has AdvCoC doesn't mean his is as powerful as Luffy's for example. Same is going to be applied to Kid but I think it will take some time till that happens.


Why do you consider defeating king to be a more impressive feat than breaking through big moms advcoc defense?


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## TheWiggian (Jan 5, 2023)

Incognitos said:


> Why do you consider defeating king to be a more impressive feat than breaking through big moms advcoc defense?



Big Mom used AdvCoC vs them?


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## Incognitos (Jan 5, 2023)

TheWiggian said:


> Big Mom used AdvCoC vs them?


Yes. When Kid fires damned punk she uses advcoc to shield herself from it. This is demonstrated by blacklightning and the projectile not touching big mom. A few panels later it shows the black lightning gone and the projectile touching her.


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## TheWiggian (Jan 5, 2023)

Incognitos said:


> Yes. When Kid fires damned punk she uses advcoc to shield herself from it. This is demonstrated by blacklightning and the projectile not touching big mom. A few panels later it shows the black lightning gone and the projectile touching her.



Or it's conqueror's haki release which she also displayed on WCI while fodder dropped on both occassions?


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## Incognitos (Jan 5, 2023)

TheWiggian said:


> Or it's conqueror's haki release which she also displayed on WCI while fodder dropped on both occassions?


Conquerors release doesn't have the signature of creating an aura that prevents an attack from touching. Only advcoc.


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## TheWiggian (Jan 5, 2023)

Incognitos said:


> Conquerors release doesn't have the signature of creating an aura that prevents an attack from touching. Only advcoc.



Not exclusive to AdvCoC, CoA emission also does that.

*  *


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## MartyMcFly1 (Jan 5, 2023)

Incognitos said:


> And you'll do the same when Kid gets it.


If Kidd gets it then we’ll talk, but the proper way to do this is to find out what powers the strongest people like Roger, Whitebeard, Kaido and Shanks are using and work backwards from there. Not whatever the fuck is going on in this thread.


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## Incognitos (Jan 5, 2023)

TheWiggian said:


> Not exclusive to AdvCoC, CoA emission also does that.
> 
> *  *


CoA emission doesn't have black lightning. This is black lighting Emmiting  from the area that is being shielded.


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## Incognitos (Jan 5, 2023)

MartyMcFly1 said:


> If Kidd gets it then we’ll talk, but the proper way to do this is to find out what powers the strongest people like Roger, Whitebeard, Kaido and Shanks are using and work backwards from there. Not whatever the fuck is going on in this thread.


I'm responding to his point on double standards when characters that aren't liked get a powerup, I asked if he'd keep the same standards for advcoc as he does zoro. I'm not talking about ifs I'm talking about operating under the assumption he does.


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## TheWiggian (Jan 5, 2023)

Incognitos said:


> CoA emission doesn't have black lightning. This is black lighting Emmiting  from the area that is being shielded.



Even basic CoA can create black lightning bro


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## Incognitos (Jan 5, 2023)

TheWiggian said:


> Even basic CoA can create black lightning bro


Can you show a panel where a coa or adv coa user created black lighting and an aura that caused no touching?


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## Incognitos (Jan 5, 2023)

TheWiggian said:


> Even basic CoA can create black lightning bro


And can you prove that zoro is using advcoc and not basic coa if even basic coa can create black lightning?


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## TheWiggian (Jan 5, 2023)

Incognitos said:


> Can you show a panel where a coa or adv coa user created black lighting and an aura that caused no touching?



Basic CoA can create black lightning while AdvCoA creates barriers without touching. Those features are not exclusive to AdvCoC.



Incognitos said:


> And can you prove that zoro is using advcoc and not basic coa if even basic coa can create black lightning?



I can't just as I can't prove it for any other user of those haki shades due to Oda's art inconsistency.


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## Incognitos (Jan 5, 2023)

TheWiggian said:


> Basic CoA can create black lightning while AdvCoA creates barriers without touching. Those features are not exclusive to AdvCoC.
> 
> 
> 
> I can't just as I can't prove it for any other user of those haki shades due to Oda's art inconsistency.


I've never seen an example of both barriers and black lightning except for advcoc. If you have something that shows that then please go ahead and show me. 

Why do you give zoro the benefit of the doubt with advcoc then and not big mom?


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## TheWiggian (Jan 5, 2023)

Incognitos said:


> I've never seen an example of both barriers and black lightning except for advcoc. If you have something that shows that then please go ahead and show me.
> 
> Why do you give zoro the benefit of the doubt with advcoc then and not big mom?



Benefit of a doubt over what?


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## Incognitos (Jan 5, 2023)

TheWiggian said:


> Benefit of a doubt over what?


Over big mom using it in the instance that the last 14 messages have been about.


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## TheWiggian (Jan 5, 2023)

Incognitos said:


> Over big mom using it in the instance that the last 14 messages have been about.



She never used it though, if she did Oda did a poor ass job showing it with his art unlike say Luffy VS Kaido or Zoro vs King. 

The only instance black lightning popped up for a single panel is when she started taking the souls of the fodder around them where as Kaido Luffy and Zoro constantly used it multiple times in their battle including both not touching and black lightning which you claim is AdvCoC.


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## Incognitos (Jan 5, 2023)

TheWiggian said:


> She never used it though, if she did Oda did a poor ass job showing it with his art unlike say Luffy VS Kaido or Zoro vs King.
> 
> The only instance black lightning popped up for a single panel is when she started taking the souls of the fodder around them where as Kaido Luffy and Zoro constantly used it multiple times in their battle including both not touching and black lightning which you claim is AdvCoC.


That's not the only instance. She used it against kids damned punk. I'll show scans when I get on my computer next. But I've referenced this before, we just had an entire conversation about it. I'm confused as to why you are ignoring that.

When has zoro ever had the not touching, do you have scans or a page I can look at that show this?


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## Incognitos (Jan 5, 2023)

It's chapter 1040 page 4 if you want to look at it yourself.


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## TheWiggian (Jan 5, 2023)

Incognitos said:


> That's not the only instance. She used it against kids damned punk. I'll show scans when I get on my computer next. But I've referenced this before, we had an entire conversation about it. I'm confused as to why you are ignoring that.



I remember and I also remember I argued the same back then and it only happened in the instance of her ripping the souls out of those fodder around them. 



Incognitos said:


> It's chapter 1040 page 4 if you want to look at it yourself.



Yes I've seen the only panel of black lightning being the one where she sets up to take their souls, not for defense else the previous panels and the following ones would feature black lightning as well, which they didn't.


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## Incognitos (Jan 5, 2023)

TheWiggian said:


> I remember and I also remember I argued the same back then and it only happened in the instance of her ripping the souls out of those fodder around them.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes I've seen the only panel of black lightning being the one where she sets up to take their souls, not for defense else the previous panels and the following ones would feature black lightning as well, which they didn't.


Her eyes are reflective of her soul powers. She never uses black lighting to gather souls. She doesn't have any black lightning until she mounts a defense against kids damned punk. The black lightning is focused around kids damned punk. Unless kid is using advcoc. 

She doesn't use black lightning when she activates her soul powers in this sequence. It's a few panels later that she does when she's mounting a defense against kid.


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## TheWiggian (Jan 5, 2023)

Incognitos said:


> Her eyes are reflective of her soul powers. She never uses black lighting to gather souls. She doesn't have any black lightning until she mounts a defense against kids damned punk. The black lightning is focused around kids damned punk. Unless kid is using advcoc.
> 
> She doesn't use black lightning when she activates her soul powers in this sequence. It's a few panels later that she does when she's mounting a defense against kid.



She also didn't use black lightning previously against damned punk or after the single black lightning panel either. 

Neither did Kids projectile break through her skin.


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## Incognitos (Jan 5, 2023)

TheWiggian said:


> She also didn't use black lightning previously against damned punk or after the single black lightning panel either.
> 
> Neither did Kids projectile break through her skin.


That's because he broke through the defense she mounted. 

Can you give an example of big moms skin ever being penetrated? I'm not sure why that's a standard for damage when it's been pretty clear for the last few hundred chapters she's got impenetrable skin. 

Because no attack has ever made brook bleed does that mean he doesn't get injured?


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## TheWiggian (Jan 5, 2023)

Incognitos said:


> That's because he broke through the defense she mounted.



It didn't break through it before the black lightning panel and it didn't after it. He merely pushed the marshmallow away.



Incognitos said:


> Can you give an example of big moms skin ever being penetrated? I'm not sure why that's a standard for damage when it's been pretty clear for the last few hundred chapters she's got impenetrable skin.









Incognitos said:


> Because no attack has ever made brook bleed does that mean he doesn't get injured?



Correct.


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## Incognitos (Jan 5, 2023)

TheWiggian said:


> It didn't break through it before the black lightning panel and it didn't after it. He merely pushed the marshmallow away.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Do you believe that big mom falling to her knees is a stronger force than damned punk?


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