# How strong is current crocodile



## Incognitos (Aug 25, 2022)

Did he get prison gains?


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## Oberyn Nymeros (Aug 25, 2022)

Vergo level max

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 1 | Funny 1 | Disagree 2


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## trance (Aug 25, 2022)

YC1 or higher

Reactions: Agree 4


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## God Movement (Aug 25, 2022)

King/Katakuri/Marco

This is the position he holds.

Reactions: Like 1 | Disagree 1


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## Strobacaxi (Aug 25, 2022)

YC1, a captain with YC1 level can reach 2b bounty imo

Reactions: Like 1


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## JustSumGuy (Aug 25, 2022)

The way he’s sitting on that couch with Mihawk like they’re equals is crazy lol.

He’s a gotta be at least as strong as a YC1. Oda’s introducing him back in the fold like he’s hot shit.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 6 | Funny 1


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## Orca (Aug 25, 2022)

As strong as the narrative and scene needs him to be to deliver the maximum level of badassery without overshadowing Luffy.

Reactions: Like 5 | Agree 1 | Funny 1 | Winner 3


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## convict (Aug 25, 2022)

I can’t see him as strong as Marco or even Sanji.

Doflamingo would have had this level of bounty imo too due to his intelligence and criminal activity and influence.

Going with Jinbei level so YC3 max as strong as Queen.

Reactions: Like 3


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## El Hit (Aug 25, 2022)

He destroys king and katakuri, but he is a little Bellow law.

Reactions: Like 3 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Etherborn (Aug 25, 2022)

FM+ at least based on his bounty. You don't get close to 2 Billion just for being a really cunning dude with a powerful logia. Yeah bounty isn't equivalent to strength but he wouldn't have a bounty over 500 mil higher than King's if strength wasn't at least one of the main factors there.

Reactions: Like 4 | Agree 9 | Winner 1


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## Delta Shell (Aug 25, 2022)

He is equal to Buggy and Mihawk.

Reactions: Winner 3


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## Incognitos (Aug 25, 2022)

Etherborn said:


> FM+ at least based on his bounty. You don't get close to 2 Billion just for being a really cunning dude with a powerful logia. Yeah bounty isn't equivalent to strength but he wouldn't have a bounty over 500 mil higher than King's if strength wasn't at least one of the main factors there.





Etherborn said:


> Their bounties are a non factor in that debate.


 

Interesting

Reactions: Funny 1


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## T-Bag (Aug 25, 2022)

Im glad crocodile getting back his respect he deserved. I’d say shiryu level, perhaps stronger

yc1 at the very least.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Klue (Aug 25, 2022)

Delta Shell said:


> He is equal to Buggy and Mihawk.



Stop trolling son.

Reactions: Funny 2 | Optimistic 1


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## Lee-Sensei (Aug 25, 2022)

He’ll probably be YC1 or YC1+.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Etherborn (Aug 25, 2022)

Incognitos said:


> Interesting



If Crocodile had gotten equal credit for taking down 2 Yonko alongside Luffy then I guess you'd have a point. Law and Kidd's bounties are extremely overinflated due to circumstance, but if there was a scenario that lead to something that extreme happening in Croc's case, I think we would have heard about it since it would have been a world changing event.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Kirin Thunderclap (Aug 25, 2022)

A bit below Law and Kidd.


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## Sablés (Aug 25, 2022)

2B is almost Yonko-levels.
Bounty and PL aren't 1:1 but there's undoubtedly some correlation.
Robin may be the biggest bounty exception due to her circumstances and even she can't break a billion.

Crocodile can sit in the big boy pirate table and not look inferior. I see him as strong as Marco/Yamato at a safe estimate. Around Kidd/Law at the highest. If Oda wants to be nice to me, admiral level.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 3


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## Incognitos (Aug 25, 2022)

Etherborn said:


> If Crocodile had gotten equal credit for taking down 2 Yonko alongside Luffy then I guess you'd have a point. Law and Kidd's bounties are extremely overinflated due to circumstance, but if there was a scenario that lead to something that extreme happening in Croc's case, I think we would have heard about it since it would have been a world changing event.


Why don't you think luffys bounty is underinflated. 

Extreme like say helping found a yonko crew that hunts marines.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## shintebukuro (Aug 25, 2022)

YC2 - YC1.


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## T-Bag (Aug 25, 2022)

Wheres that guy that thinks daifuku or oven are above crocodile? Lmao

@MO That was you right? You still think that?

Reactions: Funny 7


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## Gunners (Aug 25, 2022)

convict said:


> I can’t see him as strong as Marco or even Sanji.
> 
> Doflamingo would have had this level of bounty imo too due to his intelligence and criminal activity and influence.
> 
> Going with Jinbei level so YC3 max as strong as Queen.



Nah. Doflamingo inadvertently put a cap on his growth by working under Kaido.

That being said, I might agree with you. I put him at YC level but I don't do that 1, 2, 3 bullshit.

I see him being competitive with fighters on that level.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Kishido (Aug 25, 2022)

Stronger than Zoro

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Richard Lionheart (Aug 25, 2022)

To me he is YC4-YC3 until proven otherwise. This bounty does not indicate strength. He did not defeat a single Yonko Commander.


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## Louis-954 (Aug 25, 2022)

convict said:


> I can’t see him as strong as Marco or even Sanji.
> 
> Doflamingo would have had this level of bounty imo too due to his intelligence and criminal activity and influence.
> 
> Going with Jinbei level so YC3 max as strong as Queen.


I could see him competing with Zoro, Jimbe or Sanji.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Shiba D. Inu (Aug 25, 2022)

stronger than Zoro


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## Mariko (Aug 25, 2022)

As Dressrosa DD, YC3. 
YC2 at the very best.

His bounty is meaningless regarding power levels.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Optimistic 1


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## Tsukuyomi (Aug 25, 2022)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> stronger than Zoro


True


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## Etherborn (Aug 25, 2022)

Incognitos said:


> Why don't you think luffys bounty is underinflated.



I do. He can 1v1 Yonko and at the bare minimum pressure them solo, unlike the other three in question. I think he's currently stronger than Big Mom. His bounty doesn't reflect that, just like Zoro's bounty doesn't reflect him being solidly above the likes of King now.



Incognitos said:


> Extreme like say helping found a yonko crew that hunts marines.



More extreme than that. Croc has a bounty higher than any FM we've seen so far (not counting Beckman who is above other FMs himself and could have a bounty even higher). If he had one that high despite it not reflecting his level of strength or even coming close to it, then it would either be because the WG/Marines mistook his level of strength like they did Buggy's, or because they wanted people to believe he was that strong for whatever reason. Neither of these seem too likely.

Even in the case of Law and Kidd you get a keen sense of the Five Elders' involvement.



They clearly intended to make Luffy seem weaker than he was because they didn't want any attention being drawn to the Nika DF making a return. Luffy's poster being his awakened form ruined that plan. How could they have convinced the world that Luffy was weaker than he really was in a situation where 2 Yonko were dethroned? The only way is by propping up Law and Kidd to his level to make it seem like 3 Supernovas had an equal part in taking down those 2 Yonko. They intended to misconstrue everyone's actual threat level because of their panic regarding Luffy and the bounties reflect that. If not for that, Luffy would have most likely been closer to 4 Billion and Law and Kidd, 2 Billion or less.

Nothing suggests Crocodile is in a similar situation.

Reactions: Like 2 | Winner 1 | Disagree 1


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## MrAnalogies (Aug 25, 2022)

His bounty and status as a yonko commander make it pretty obvious he's high commander level bare minimum. Surviving a hit from Jozu 2 years prior confirms this. He'd give guys like Katakuri, Marco, and King all they could handle and might even win at this point. To suggest he's not even commander level now is sheer stupidity and ignoring the narrative.

Reactions: Like 6 | Agree 3 | Winner 2


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## bil02 (Aug 25, 2022)

Crocodile and Mihawk's portrayal this chapter actually resembles the King and Queen one.
@Sir Curlyhat 
What do you think of Zoro vs Mihawk and Sanji vs Crocodile as their final fights?

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Mariko (Aug 25, 2022)

MrAnalogies said:


> *His bounty and status as a yonko commander make it pretty obvious he's high commander leve*l bare minimum. Surviving a hit from Jozu 2 years prior confirms this. He'd give guys like Katakuri, Marco, and King all they could handle and might even win at this point. To suggest he's not even commander level now is sheer stupidity and ignoring the narrative.



Yeah, as for Buggy.   


*Spoiler*: __


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## El Hit (Aug 25, 2022)

Mariko said:


> Yeah, as for Buggy.
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __


There is no gag with crocodile and his bounty.


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## Mariko (Aug 25, 2022)

El Hit said:


> There is no gag with crocodile and his bounty.



No you're right.

As for Luffy (3B while defeating Kaidou and awakening the most freak DF), Zoro and Sanji (under those they took down), Jinbei, Usopp, Chopper...

Should I continue?

Bounties mean total shit, as status. 

Accept it.

Period.

Reactions: Lewd 1


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## Sir Curlyhat (Aug 25, 2022)

_Top Tier   _


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## Nox (Aug 25, 2022)

If Wano has taught me anything, its that everyone is stronger than Doflamingo. No wonder Crocodile felt confident talking him down. Nevertheless, fans better chill with their diabolical dick riding from these YC+ comparisons. Crocodile was investigating Ancient Weapons, actively housed Robin and masterminded the destruction of a WG allied Kingdom with CD ties. Now he's resurfaced hunting down Marines. Whatever level you've placed Killer put him on par.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## El Hit (Aug 25, 2022)

Mariko said:


> No you're right.
> 
> As for Luffy (3B while defeating Kaidou and awakening the most freak DF), Zoro and Sanji (under those they took down), Jinbei, Usopp, Chopper...
> 
> ...


We have panels of the world gov trying to hide luffy's power. There is no gag that inflates crocos bounty, just how dangerous he is, and what they mention is his power and charisma.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## bil02 (Aug 25, 2022)

Mariko said:


> No you're right.
> 
> As for Luffy (3B while defeating Kaidou and awakening the most freak DF), Zoro and Sanji (under those they took down), Jinbei, Usopp, Chopper...
> 
> ...


What most don't get is that Luffy's bounty is in accordance to what was reported to the marines.

Yeah Luffy Beat Kaido but the news was just reported to be that Luffy,Kid and Law toppled Kaido and BM.
With the knowledge the marines have,it's logical for them to give Luffy a 3 B bounty.

The marines only think Luffy is a 3B threat but they still put Bounties on 4 of his crew members at the 900-1.1Billion interval which is higher than the interval of Bm's top 3 whom herself is viewed as a 4 billion threat(i.e greater than luffy's threat in the marines eyes).


The strawhats bounties are pretty high when put into perpesctive with previous Yonkou crews.

Could the strawhats bounties have been higher as a whole? Obviously but they're still good as they are on the Yonkou crew spectrum,just scaled lower.


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## Kishido (Aug 25, 2022)

MrAnalogies said:


> His bounty and status as a yonko commander make it pretty obvious he's high commander level bare minimum. Surviving a hit from Jozu 2 years prior confirms this. He'd give guys like Katakuri, Marco, and King all they could handle and might even win at this point. To suggest he's not even commander level now is sheer stupidity and ignoring the narrative.



Robin is commander level as well seeing that Cracker had even less.

Reactions: Like 1 | GODA 1


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## Perrin (Aug 25, 2022)

Stronger than Beckman
Weaker than Final Movie Villain


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## Phantom Thief (Aug 25, 2022)

Dude clashed with Doflamingo, Akainu, and Mihawk in Marineford and came out no worse for wear and likely has Awakening. Was also similarly injured to Kuzan after being blindsided by Jozu.
I'd say he's probably around YC1 level if not slightly higher. Jozu level at worst


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## Kishido (Aug 25, 2022)

Maybe the SHs should go to if for some weeks as well... Or pre skip Luffy was already at that YC1+++ level


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## Fel1x (Aug 25, 2022)

around GB's level


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## Mariko (Aug 25, 2022)

El Hit said:


> We have panels of the world gov trying to hide luffy's power. There is no gag that inflates crocos bounty,* just how dangerous he is*, and what they mention is his power and charisma.



 



bil02 said:


> What most don't get is that Luffy's bounty is in accordance to what was reported to the marines.
> 
> Y*eah Luffy Beat Kaido but the news was just reported to be that Luffy,Kid and Law toppled Kaido and BM.
> With the knowledge the marines have,it's logical for them to give Luffy a 3 B bounty.*
> ...



I know the WG/Marines are retarded, but still...

They do know Luffy took down the WSC (almost) all by himself, awakening the most freaking power in the world.

So either they give him the Joyboy/God Nika bounty, 10 B, or they... Shut up and retire. 

No sorry, Oda doesn't give a shit about bounties, since day one.

Reactions: Friendly 1


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## Shunsuiju (Aug 26, 2022)

Doflamingo MAX


God Movement said:


> King/Katakuri/Marco
> 
> This is the position he holds.


Do you REALLY think that?

It's so jarring thinking someone who lost to pre-timeskip Luffy could hold his own against Marco.


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## Breadman (Aug 26, 2022)

Dude got rocked by Jozu in MF, I guess if he's been hitting those gains for the post timeskip he might be around Y2, Y1? Unless he has SERIOUS involvement moving forward as an actual antagonist, I just can't see him being too much stronger than other warlords with post-timeskip gains.


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## Big king (Aug 26, 2022)

Oda will wank him beyond Commander level and lower than Top Tiers.


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## T-Bag (Aug 26, 2022)

Shunsuiju said:


> Doflamingo MAX
> 
> Do you REALLY think that?
> 
> It's so jarring thinking someone who lost to pre-timeskip Luffy could hold his own against Marco.


This outdated thinking gotta go.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## X18999 (Aug 26, 2022)

Nox said:


> If Wano has taught me anything, its that everyone is stronger than Doflamingo. No wonder Crocodile felt confident talking him down. Nevertheless, fans better chill with their diabolical dick riding from these YC+ comparisons. Crocodile was investigating Ancient Weapons, actively housed Robin and masterminded the destruction of a WG allied Kingdom with CD ties. Now he's resurfaced hunting down Marines. Whatever level you've placed Killer put him on par.


Just creating a group that hunts Marines is enough for his bounty and I think people are underestimating how much importance is given to logia abilities.


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## VileNotice (Aug 26, 2022)

Clash piece level, ie YC2 realistically. His bounty is absurdly high but this is a man who was portrayed as inferior to Luffy not only in Alabasta but Marineford. Any first mate chops him up in an extended 1v1.

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## T-Bag (Aug 26, 2022)

Wait till my mans reintroduces awakening and CoC as a result of his ambition coming back to him, people gonna change their mind real quick. But it’ll be too late then, ill be calling out everyone and shaming them for as long as they live. The hints oda is putting out is not enough it seems


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## IchijiNijiSanji (Aug 26, 2022)

Lower that doflamingo.

Croc's hype is based on his cunning and guile and his logia mastery. All traits he had preskip. 

Remember Oda said Enel would've had a bounty of 500 million if he showed up on east blue even though he was pretty weak otherwise. Add in Croc's connections and influence and the new crossguild and you can get a nice little boost to whatever his bounty is right now

Reactions: Like 2


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## Phantom Thief (Aug 26, 2022)

Breadman said:


> Dude got rocked by Jozu in MF, I guess if he's been hitting those gains for the post timeskip he might be around Y2, Y1? Unless he has SERIOUS involvement moving forward as an actual antagonist, I just can't see him being too much stronger than other warlords with post-timeskip gains.


He was blindsided by a Brilliant Punk just as Kuzan was and suffered similarly to it. Think he actually recovered fairly well from it


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## IchijiNijiSanji (Aug 26, 2022)

Phantom Thief said:


> He was blindsided by a Brilliant Punk just as Kuzan was and suffered similarly to it. Think he actually recovered fairly well from it



Marineford is whack though
He still got pushed back by G2 luffy, and luffy himself was tanking sengoku, admirals and such 
With modern power scaling all those peeps should've been one shot


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## rext1 (Aug 26, 2022)

Mihawk is the only one who got a bounty that correlates with strength.

Croc got his for underworld connections and intelligence network. Buggy got his for his perceived influence and command over the aforementioned two.

Croc is Flying Six level at best IMO.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Nighty the Mighty (Aug 26, 2022)

I, noted crocodile enjoyer, completely underestimated how far GODA would go to wank our boy.

His bounty is Blackbeard level. He's a certified top tier.

Reactions: Winner 2


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## tupadre97 (Aug 26, 2022)

yc3 max. anyone saying he's stronger is od-ing on copium.


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## akainuDragonFan (Aug 26, 2022)

Lol he shouldn't be stronger than pre skip enel or ace level which I would say is below doffy which is below any non wb commander but the sad thing is he probably did magically jump in power as fast as our prodigy-god-fruit-trained-by-rayleigh-conquerer's-haki-soon-to-be-pirate-king-main-character.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Bernkastel (Aug 26, 2022)

He's gonna get such a huge power inflation so YC1 and maybe more

Reactions: Agree 2


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## T-Bag (Aug 26, 2022)

rext1 said:


> Mihawk is the only one who got a bounty that correlates with strength.
> 
> Croc got his for underworld connections and intelligence network. Buggy got his for his perceived influence and command over the aforementioned two.
> 
> *Croc is Flying Six level at best IMO.*


The croc disrespect is strong here. Youre putting crocodile at the level of sasaki…? Drake..? Whos who…?

croc got his bounty for his powerful logia first and foremost.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1 | Winner 1


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## Corax (Aug 26, 2022)

YC1+. It was outright stated that he got his 2 Bil bounty for his mighty ability and cunning. So his DF and combat prowess is a huge part of it.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 5


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## Kobe (Aug 26, 2022)

We haven't seen Crocodile lose to anyone except to Luffy. His perceived weakness "water" is relatively unknown and hard to come by on land. Without knowledge he should be able to wreck shit up with his logia. BuT mY nEw WoRLd hAs haKI doesn't matter shit. Logia is logia.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Phantom Thief (Aug 26, 2022)

Robin is the only person in the world that the WG knows of who can read Poneglyphs and her bounty is only 930 million while being F6 level. There's no way Crocodile's bounty is going to be near two billion just for his smarts and connections if he's not perceived as a Yonko and is only as strong as Page One.

Croc's probably floating around YC1 level or higher y'all better believe it

Reactions: Agree 6


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## Ludi (Aug 26, 2022)

New YC1 level, alongside zoro, Benn and shiryu. Above boZo commanders like king and katakuri

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Winner 1


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## CoopoNitro7 (Aug 26, 2022)

He has to be YC1+… Which is around Yamato level


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## Tsukuyomi (Aug 26, 2022)

MrAnalogies said:


> His bounty and status as a yonko commander make it pretty obvious he's high commander level bare minimum. Surviving a hit from Jozu 2 years prior confirms this. He'd give guys like Katakuri, Marco, and King all they could handle and might even win at this point. To suggest he's not even commander level now is sheer stupidity and ignoring the narrative.

Reactions: Like 1


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## CoopoNitro7 (Aug 26, 2022)

Orca said:


> As strong as the narrative and scene needs him to be to deliver the maximum level of badassery without overshadowing Luffy.


That’s the true answer


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## Kobe (Aug 26, 2022)

Hawk > Shark ~= Crocodile ~= Boa ~= Bear > Gecko

Gecko < Flamingo < Hawk


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## Corax (Aug 26, 2022)

IchijiNijiSanji said:


> Lower that doflamingo.
> 
> Croc's hype is based on his cunning and guile and his logia mastery. All traits he had preskip.
> 
> Remember Oda said Enel would've had a bounty of 500 million if he showed up on east blue even though he was pretty weak otherwise. Add in Croc's connections and influence and the new crossguild and you can get a nice little boost to whatever his bounty is right now


500 is still 4 times lower than 2 bil. I understand that post TS inflation is a thing but still 2 bil post TS is way bigger than 500 mil. pre TS.


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## IchijiNijiSanji (Aug 26, 2022)

Corax said:


> 500 is still 4 times lower than 2 bil. I understand that post TS inflation is a thing but still 2 bil post TS is way bigger than 500 mil. pre TS.



That's the thing though, Enel's 500 million was based entirely on his Logia laurels. Preskip the only 500 millionaire we knew was Ace a 2nd division commander. Post skip dressrosa Law was the 500 millionaire so we see some inflation has happened.
500 million solely on your Logia preskip would be 1 billion post skip.

And the emphasis is still on his logia not his overall strength. 

And its not just his logia he's getting a boost on. Its his connections, influence, cunning, even joinging the crossguild and directly opposing the Marines by putting bounties on them is a boost.


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## CoopoNitro7 (Aug 26, 2022)

Mihawk current bounty is 3.59 billion… Zoro’s final bounty is going to be 3.6 billion… As in 3,6… 36… 36 pound canon

Roger’s final bounty is 5.5 billion… Luffy’s final bounty is going to be 5.6 billion… As in 5,6… 5-Go, 6-Mu… Gomu Gomu

Reactions: Like 1


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## Beast (Aug 26, 2022)

At least stronger then Zoros. 


Via his bounty, charisma and his words hold weight with  Zoros master. 

Best bet is stronger then M3 but weaker then Luffy. Gives him enough leeway.


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## Beast (Aug 26, 2022)

Louis-954 said:


> I could see him competing with Zoro, Jimbe or Sanji.


Ayyy ayyyy, Louis just transcend. 

You been looking at my notes lately?

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Admiral Akanezumi (Aug 26, 2022)

Hoping for Croc gains


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## OG sama (Aug 26, 2022)

Hes going to be YC1 level because Oda likes him and figured he was introduced too early, so now the excuse will be he got his ambition back and became a lot stronger or is as strong as he was in his prime something like that I bet.

Don’t like it but whatever, a guy who got beat by Alabasta Luffy and had inferior portrayal to him in Marineford as well being as strong as a YC1, who are still very formidable opponents is pretty insane but Oda felt he wasn’t properly handled before so I guess this is supposed to be his actual proper level.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## T-Bag (Aug 26, 2022)

OG sama said:


> Hes going to be YC1 level because Oda likes him and figured he was introduced too early, so now the excuse will be he got his ambition back and became a lot stronger or is as strong as he was in his prime something like that I bet.
> 
> Don’t like it but whatever, a guy who got beat by Alabasta Luffy and had inferior portrayal to him in Marineford as well being as strong as a YC1, who are still very formidable opponents is pretty insane but Oda felt he wasn’t properly handled before so I guess this is supposed to be his actual proper level.


This is a good post. Lots of common sense applied especially the 2nd paragraph


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## Empathy (Aug 26, 2022)

His bounty is due to him being a former warlord and the Marines taking Cross Guild personally. Jinbe got a bounty almost higher than Zoro’s just based on being a former warlord. We can maybe assume he’s at least learned Haki since the TS to remain relevant, but I’m not voting any higher than YC4 until see him actually do something. Cross Guild is mostly a farce designed to tell us that Mihawk  is an unofficial Yonkou with no crew.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Soba (Aug 26, 2022)

With how much Oda loves the character I'd go with solid YC1+. He's basically the shadow Yonkou RN. I would love for him and Mihawk to have some sort of an interaction with Zoro and Sanji.


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## Ayy lmao (Aug 26, 2022)

Empathy said:


> His bounty is due to him being a former warlord and the Marines taking Cross Guild personally. Jinbe got a bounty almost higher than Zoro’s just based on being a former warlord. We can maybe assume he’s at least learned Haki since the TS to remain relevant, but I’m not voting any higher than YC4 until see him actually do something. Cross Guild is mostly a farce designed to tell us that Mihawk  is an unofficial Yonkou with no crew.


Jinbe stopped being a former warlord 2 years ago. His initial bounty after MF was only 400m+. Law's bounty also didn't get raised that much after quitting being a warlord. So Jinbe's 1b bounty can't be just because of that.


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## Empathy (Aug 26, 2022)

Ayy lmao said:


> Jinbe stopped being a former warlord 2 years ago. His initial bounty after MF was only 400m+. Law's bounty also didn't get raised that much after quitting being a warlord. So Jinbe's 1b bounty can't be just because of that.



They’re also serving under Yonkous now, which has a lot to do with Croc’s and Jinbe’s rise. I think being a former Shichibukai and joining a Yonkou crew is the specific reason for it being so high. There’s not really a good explanation otherwise.

Reactions: Neutral 1


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## jesusus (Aug 26, 2022)

Stronger than Shanks, weaker than LotC


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## Chip Skylark (Aug 26, 2022)

Incognitos said:


> Did he get prison gains?


He invented prison gains

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 2


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## xmysticgohanx (Aug 26, 2022)

King level


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## Louis-954 (Aug 26, 2022)

Beast said:


> Ayyy ayyyy, Louis just transcend.
> 
> You been looking at my notes lately?


All I do is read my Beast Bible on how to interpret power levels in my off time.


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## Vengarl (Aug 26, 2022)

Oberyn Nymeros said:


> Vergo level max

Reactions: Funny 4


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## Thdyingbreed (Aug 26, 2022)

He’ll be YC1 more then likely that’s the level he’ll need to be at to stay competitive even if doesn’t make any sense for him to be that strong he’ll benefit from power inflation and be scaled up.


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## Oberyn Nymeros (Aug 26, 2022)

To be clearer, I put Vergo on par with Oven and Who's Who for example. Basically, as strong as you can be without being on the Yonku Commander level.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Nighty the Mighty (Aug 26, 2022)

Empathy said:


> They’re also serving under Yonkous now, which has a lot to do with Croc’s and Jinbe’s rise. I think being a former Shichibukai and joining a Yonkou crew is the specific reason for it being so high. There’s not really a good explanation otherwise.


Jinbe already worked for a Yonkou, he was a member of the Big Mom Pirates as a subordinate captain of the Sun Pirates. He did the whole sake ritual with her on Whole Cake Island as part of resigning to become the Straw Hats helmsman.


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## Venom (Aug 26, 2022)

Probably around Zoro lvl now considering his absurd bounty until Oda shows us why it is so high.


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## Vengarl (Aug 26, 2022)

Oberyn Nymeros said:


> To be clearer, I put Vergo on par with Oven and Who's Who for example. Basically, as strong as you can be without being on the Yonku Commander level.


If Oven is stronger than Perospero then I agree. I think personally think Croc is at least Jack/Cracker level, but I'm biased.


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## Sablés (Aug 26, 2022)

IchijiNijiSanji said:


> And its not just his logia he's getting a boost on. Its his connections, influence, cunning, even joinging the crossguild and directly opposing the Marines by putting bounties on them is a boost.


Robin has almost all of this and is the most wanted woman in the entire world. She doesn't break a billion. Marco hyped King and Queen as enemies that were insanely difficult in his situation because they were billion bounties. It's clear that at that point, incredibly strength is required.

Is Croc the only one not allowed to benefit from powercreep or something.

Reactions: Agree 4


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## T-Bag (Aug 26, 2022)

Vengarl said:


> If Oven is stronger than Perospero then I agree. I think personally think *Croc is at least Jack/Cracker level,* but I'm biased.


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## Pliskin (Aug 26, 2022)

1.9 Sanjis worth of power roughly.


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## MO (Aug 26, 2022)

T-Bag said:


> Wheres that guy that thinks daifuku or oven are above crocodile? Lmao
> 
> @MO That was you right? You still think that?


I've upgraded him to perospero level max.


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## Shunsuiju (Aug 26, 2022)

Sablés said:


> Is Croc the only one not allowed to benefit from powercreep or something.


Who else has powercreeped _that much_ besides the main characters through natural growth?


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## Sablés (Aug 26, 2022)

Shunsuiju said:


> Who else has powercreeped _that much_ besides the main characters through natural growth?


Law went from sub-DD level to being a crucial factor in Big Mom's defeat in...a little over a month?


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## DeVision (Aug 26, 2022)

I don't think Mihawk would've agreed to make a partnership if they were worlds apart. Mihawk is most likely above him, but not far.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Oberyn Nymeros (Aug 26, 2022)

62% of the OL putting Crocodile above folks like King/Marco is _insane_.


Vengarl said:


> If Oven is stronger than Perospero then I agree. I think personally think Croc is at least Jack/Cracker level, but I'm biased.


So for me, I dont think anyone who Luffy defeated should have matched his growth rate. Even Sanji and Zoro couldn't manage that so I don't know why someone like Crocodile would be able to.

A month ago, just after the timeskip, Luffy was at YC3 level so his preskip foes are all below that by default to me.

Am I supposed to think that if Luffy faced Crocodile at Dressrosa he would have struggled as much as he did against Doflamingo or as much as he did when he first fought Croc? That just doesnt jive with me at all.

Also Perospero > Oven. He fought Sulong Cat and didn't fall which is way more impressive than anything Oden has done.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## bil02 (Aug 26, 2022)

There's a prerequisite threshold of strength to get over a billion bounty for non gag characters.

Marco,WCi Luffy,Jinbei have all confirmed 1billion+ bounties are something else,you don't get such a bounty just for connections,otherwise Robin would've crossed the billion bounty too.

Crocodile at this point is Top commander level at the very least.

Reactions: Agree 2 | Winner 2


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## Sablés (Aug 26, 2022)

Oberyn Nymeros said:


> 62% of the OL putting Crocodile above folks like King/Marco is _insane_.
> 
> So for me, I dont think anyone who Luffy defeated should have matched his growth rate. Even Sanji and Zoro couldn't manage that so I don't know why someone like Crocodile would be able to.
> 
> ...


Whoever Luffy defeated shouldn't have much to do with it but let's play that game.
Law was crushed by Doflamingo. Luffy trounced Doffy.
Yet despite Luffy raising his power through high-level combat, Law managed to keep pace with him doing absolutely nothing off-screen. Magically, he somehow had awakening, ignoring the far inferior portrayal in Roof Piece. Turns out Law was much stronger than G4 then and Luffy had to undergo more haki blooms and awakening to overturn the odds.

The hows and whys don't matter. Only the 'when'. As typical of shounen, the later you are relevant, the better chances you have of exceeding what came before even if it's seemingly undeserved.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## Oberyn Nymeros (Aug 26, 2022)

bil02 said:


> Jinbei has a 1billion+ bounty





bil02 said:


> You don't get such a bounty just for connections


So why didn't Jinbe have a billion bounty immediately after Marineford if it has nothing to do with his connection to Luffy?


Sablés said:


> Whoever Luffy defeated shouldn't have much to do with it but let's play that game.


Talking about Law is the opposite of playing the game.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Sablés (Aug 26, 2022)

Oberyn Nymeros said:


> Talking about Law is the opposite of playing the game.


Why? He lost to DD didn't he? They guy Luffy beat? So he's definitely far inferior to Luffy as of DR.
What's the problem?


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## deltaniner (Aug 26, 2022)

Oberyn Nymeros said:


> So why didn't Jinbe have a billion bounty immediately after Marineford if it has nothing to do with his connection to Luffy?


He's gotten stronger since then. Simple.


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## Oberyn Nymeros (Aug 26, 2022)

Sablés said:


> Why?


To quote myself "I dont think anyone who Luffy defeated should have matched his growth rate." When did Luffy defeat Law? Stop his plans from succeeding?


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## T-Bag (Aug 26, 2022)

Oberyn Nymeros said:


> To quote myself "I dont think anyone who Luffy defeated should have matched his growth rate."


So crocodile did not really grow although it would appear that way. This is the level he was supposed to be at and luffy should never have beaten him so early.


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## jjjjjbbbbnnnnnn (Aug 26, 2022)

2 x alabasta croc power level

Reactions: Funny 1 | Friendly 1


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## Sablés (Aug 26, 2022)

Oberyn Nymeros said:


> To quote myself "I dont think anyone who Luffy defeated should have matched his growth rate." When did Luffy defeat Law? Stop his plans from succeeding?


If your qualms here is about people made to look inferior to Luffy (defeated), why should there be an issue with Law, who was directly made to look worse than the guy Luffy defeated? Because there was one extra step to it?

At this point, it would seem like you've invented a specific reason for why someone can't keep up with Luffy's growth rate than the manga itself never supplied. You can be painted weaker than Luffy in one arc and keep up the next. It all depends on what the plot wants to support.


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## Oberyn Nymeros (Aug 26, 2022)

Crocodile after losing his organization and failing miserably at Alabasta:

Dude literally just stopped trying and went to prison because he didn't feel like doing anything else.


T-Bag said:


> So crocodile did not really grow although it would appear that way. This is the level he was supposed to be at and luffy should never have beaten him so early.


I dont mind that theory at all. Still Vet level for me though.


Sablés said:


> If your qualms here is about people made to look inferior to Luffy (defeated), why should there be an issue with Law


No not "people." I'm saying that I don't think any of Luffy's past foes should have kept pace with or been superior to him at any point after their loss. *Moriah is like the one possible exception.


deltaniner said:


> He's gotten stronger since then. Simple.


How did the WG determine that? Its pretty obvious he wouldn't have gotten an increase if he didn't join Luffy at Wano.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Ruse (Aug 26, 2022)

YC1


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## Vengarl (Aug 26, 2022)

Oberyn Nymeros said:


> 62% of the OL putting Crocodile above folks like King/Marco is _insane_.
> 
> So for me, I dont think anyone who Luffy defeated should have matched his growth rate. Even Sanji and Zoro couldn't manage that so I don't know why someone like Crocodile would be able to.
> 
> ...


A little bit of it is power inflation, a little bit growth the last 2 years after returning to the new world, and partly him being rusty in Alabasta. Maybe he experienced a bit of an awakening after getting his ass kicked for the first time in who knows how long. But seeing as how he can at least counter Mihawk and tank Jozus hits it's clear he's not losing to lesser commanders than YC4. I think Oda just likes to keep One piece villains relevant power-wise, because Lucci is up there as well.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## The crazy hacker (Aug 26, 2022)

YC1+ but weaker than Law/Kidd.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Shunsuiju (Aug 26, 2022)

Sablés said:


> Law went from sub-DD level to being a crucial factor in Big Mom's defeat in...a little over a month?


I said besides main characters who haven't reached their potential yet.

Moving into his late fourties, he grew from losing to pre-Gears Luffy to being the strongest non-Emperor/Admiral? I don't buy it.


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## Danyboy (Aug 26, 2022)

If we try to find any sense out of it, then he is YC 2 at best, but Oda probably going to ass pull some shit and Croc will be as strong as Plot requires.

Reactions: Like 1


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## deltaniner (Aug 26, 2022)

Shunsuiju said:


> I said besides main characters who haven't reached their potential yet.
> 
> Moving into his late fourties, he grew from losing to pre-Gears Luffy to being the strongest non-Emperor/Admiral? I don't buy it.


You think Oda _cares_ if you buy it?

Reactions: Like 1


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## Shunsuiju (Aug 26, 2022)

deltaniner said:


> You think Oda _cares_ if you buy it?


Bruh what is this response? 

Let's not forget how Jozu treated Crocodile pre-timeskip. So it's not like Oda was hiding his power level all along:



Him not getting one-shot is evidence he is a good high-tier, but notihng more.


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## Amatérasu’s Son (Aug 26, 2022)

Vengarl said:


> If Oven is stronger than Perospero then I agree. I think personally think Croc is at least Jack/Cracker level, but I'm biased.



Actually Oven by all accounts should be stronger than Perospero, after all his fruit is a hard counter to his older brother's.

I'd actually put Crocodile above Cracker, if Crocodile has Buso Haki, then he should be able to simply dehydrate and dust Cracker's crackers, and demolish him in combat since Cracker has no durability.

I'm wondering about Jack. You'd think that someone with a dessicate ability would be a nightmare for Fishmen. Also...Jack's nickname is "The Drought" Crocodile *is* a living drought.



Oberyn Nymeros said:


> Crocodile after losing his organization and failing miserably at Alabasta:
> 
> Dude literally just stopped trying and went to prison because he didn't feel like doing anything else.


But that's not the end of Crocodile. Then the breakout happened, he tagged a long and fought at Marineford. I think he got his groove back.


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## deltaniner (Aug 26, 2022)

Shunsuiju said:


> Bruh what is this response?
> 
> Let's not forget how Jozu treated Crocodile pre-timeskip. So it's not like Oda was hiding his power level all along:
> 
> ...


Oda doesn't give a _fuck_ if you think Crocodile getting stronger makes sense or not. If he wants to make Croc stronger, he'll make Croc stronger.

And it's not like he can't make a reason for it. "Crocodile's regained his resolve and will, strengthening his Haki greatly". There, done.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2


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## Oda Report (Aug 26, 2022)

Corc stronger then kata, Marco and King.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## Sablés (Aug 26, 2022)

Shunsuiju said:


> I said besides main characters who haven't reached their potential yet.
> 
> Moving into his late fourties, he grew from losing to pre-Gears Luffy to being the strongest non-Emperor/Admiral? I don't buy it.





deltaniner said:


> Oda doesn't give a _fuck_ if you think Crocodile getting stronger makes sense or not. If he wants to make Croc stronger, he'll make Croc stronger.
> 
> And it's not like he can't make a reason for it. "Crocodile's regained his resolve and will, strengthening his Haki greatly". There, done.


Above. And on top of that Croc didn't even have haki at the time, which is absolutely necessary to survive in the NW. I love how the reasons you decide that Croc can't be strong is because you think make up arbitrary reasons for why it can't be so (selectively at that). 

In case you weren't paying attention, Croc and Daz just obliterated the entire marine quad sent after Buggy and those had VAs on it


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## Shunsuiju (Aug 26, 2022)

deltaniner said:


> Oda doesn't give a _fuck_ if you think Crocodile getting stronger makes sense or not. If he wants to make Croc stronger, he'll make Croc stronger.
> 
> And it's not like he can't make a reason for it. "Crocodile's regained his resolve and will, strengthening his Haki greatly". There, done.


Ok relax.

Oda can do whatever he wants, that doesn't mean I can't criticize it.


Sablés said:


> Above. And on top of that Croc didn't even have haki at the time, which is absolutely necessary to survive in the NW. I love how the reasons you decide that Croc can't be strong is because you think make up arbitrary reasons for why it can't be so (selectively at that).


Above what?

Usopp is the strongest character because I said so and Oda doesn't give a darn what you think

haki doesn't boost your overall stats. it's an addition.


Sablés said:


> In case you weren't paying attention, Croc and Daz just obliterated the entire marine quad sent after Buggy and those had VAs on it


Along with the rest of their crew? Got it.


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## A Optimistic (Aug 26, 2022)

Only one VA was spotted, it's not plural.

That said, I do agree with the idea that Oda can make anyone as strong as he wants. If Oda wants Crocodile to be the YC1 of the Cross Guild Yonko crew, then so be it. Arguing against the author is pointless. 

Every Yonko crew has a YC1 and sure isn't Mihawk or Buggy. Process of elimination means it's Crocodile. People need to stop applying real life logic like age to a gag manga.


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## Oberyn Nymeros (Aug 26, 2022)

Vengarl said:


> But seeing as how he can at least counter Mihawk and tank Jozus hits it's clear he's not losing to lesser commanders than YC4.


Yeah, Oda didn't have the powerscale worked out back then which is why an exhausted Luffy could walk off Sengoku and Vista could have an equal exchange with Mihawk. 

Even then, the best thing that Croc did was not being one shot by Jozu; he never actually hurt anyone with a name. I'm sticking with him being Vet level. We'll see what Oda has in store eventually.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Sablés (Aug 26, 2022)

Shunsuiju said:


> Above what?


His post as an addition to mine.


Shunsuiju said:


> Usopp is the strongest character because I said so and Oda doesn't give a darn what you think


Nice strawman.


Shunsuiju said:


> haki doesn't boost your overall stats. it's an addition.


Good thing I never said it. I don't care to play games on what areas he might have improved, only that was definitely room for improvement and that will depend on Oda himself, not your perceptions of if/how Oda will raise him.


Shunsuiju said:


> Along with the rest of their crew? Got it.


Where did you find this imaginary crew?


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## T-Bag (Aug 26, 2022)

Shunsuiju said:


> Bruh what is this response?
> 
> *Let's not forget how Jozu treated Crocodile pre-timeskip. So it's not like Oda was hiding his power level all along:*
> 
> ...


wtf does this prove lol?

Jozu did something similar to Aokiji, Crocodile did something similar to akainu. It's war, you get hit.


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## Shunsuiju (Aug 26, 2022)

A Optimistic said:


> Every Yonko crew has a YC1 and sure isn't Mihawk or Buggy. Process of elimination means it's Crocodile. People need to stop applying real life logic like age to a gag manga.


Cross Guild isn't a regular Yonko crew.


Sablés said:


> Nice strawman.


How so?


Sablés said:


> Where did you find this imaginary crew?


We don't know what happened, stop acting like you do.


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## A Optimistic (Aug 26, 2022)

Shunsuiju said:


> Cross Guild isn't a regular Yonko crew.



A yonko crew is a yonko crew bro. Cross guild isn't weaker than other Yonko crews.


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## Sablés (Aug 26, 2022)

Shunsuiju said:


> How so?


Me: Oda can make Croc as strong as he wants
You: Oda can make Usopp as strong as he wants.

The strawman lies in the fact that Usopp is _already _a quantified element. Croc is not. He's had 2 years to do whatever Oda saw fit to make him stronger along with the general benefits of power creep.


Shunsuiju said:


> We don't know what happened, stop acting like you do.


We literally see Croc and Mr. 1 destroying the ships and marines in real-time. There is nobody else there besides them, nor is it suggested that there is anyone else. You made that shit up.


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## A Optimistic (Aug 26, 2022)

@Sablés how come you said multiple VAs btw? I agree with everything else you're saying but we only saw 1 VA


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## Sablés (Aug 26, 2022)

A Optimistic said:


> @Sablés how come you said multiple VAs btw? I agree with everything else you're saying but we only saw 1 VA


I wasn't being specific. We know that VAs were sent for the Shichi so I said VAs.
Also I can't be sure on moustache's name. I think it's stainless?


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## A Optimistic (Aug 26, 2022)

Sablés said:


> I wasn't being specific. We know that VAs were sent for the Shichi so I said VAs.
> Also I can't be sure on moustache's name. I think it's stainless?



yeah it's stainless. same VA that doflamingo fodderized earlier on

Reactions: Informative 1


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## IHateAnnoyingJerks (Aug 26, 2022)

If bounty is any indication, he's top tier, his bounty is close to BB's.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Oberyn Nymeros (Aug 26, 2022)

A Optimistic said:


> Cross guild isn't weaker than other Yonko crews.


Of course it is....they only have 3 people worth anything. 4 if you count Buggy.


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## A Optimistic (Aug 26, 2022)

Oberyn Nymeros said:


> Of course it is....they only have 3 people worth anything. 4 if you count Buggy.



who is worth anything in the beast pirates outside of kaido, king, queen, and jack?

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Oberyn Nymeros (Aug 26, 2022)

A Optimistic said:


> who is worth anything in the beast pirates outside of kaido, king, queen, and jack?


All of the Flying Six and Headliners.


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## A Optimistic (Aug 26, 2022)

Oberyn Nymeros said:


> All of the Flying Six and Headliners.



they are all fodder lmao and you know it bro

man really said headliners. did you miss jinbei and sanji casually oneshotting them?

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Oberyn Nymeros (Aug 26, 2022)

A Optimistic said:


> they are all fodder


What? Of course they're not. 

The Cross Guild is just Mihawk, Croc, and Daz with Buggy's Delivery Service thrown in. The strongest person in Buggy's group was fucking Hajrudin of all people. 

The rest of Buggy's group is so ass that with Hajrudin gone Buggy cannot even make ends meet.


A Optimistic said:


> man really said headliners. did you miss jinbei and sanji casually oneshotting them?


Those guys were fine, and I give the table to people that could give Zoro, Killer, and Kid trouble than to fodder weaker than Hajrudin.


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## Sablés (Aug 26, 2022)

A Optimistic said:


> yeah it's stainless. same VA that doflamingo fodderized earlier on


Sounds about right. You need to be at least top commander level to spank a VA.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Oberyn Nymeros (Aug 26, 2022)

Sablés said:


> Sounds about right. You need to be at least top commander level to spank a VA.


Of course you don't.


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## A Optimistic (Aug 26, 2022)

Oberyn Nymeros said:


> What? Of course they're not.
> 
> The Cross Guild is just Mihawk, Croc, and Daz with Buggy's Delivery Service thrown in. The strongest person in Buggy's group was fucking Hajrudin of all people.
> 
> ...



Crocodile and Daz Bones alone easily neg diffed an entire buster call led by a vice admiral. In other words, a war between cross guild and the beast pirates would see the flying six and the headliners wiped out very quickly early on.

the top 4 of cross guild are close in strength to the top 4 in the beast pirates, everyone else on either side is irrelevant fodder


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## Sablés (Aug 26, 2022)

Oberyn Nymeros said:


> Of course you don't.


If you say so. But evidence would be nice


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## A Optimistic (Aug 26, 2022)

I’ll repeat that Jinbei and base Sanji were ones hitting headliners, you outta pocket for thinking headliners are a threat to cross guild


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## A Optimistic (Aug 26, 2022)

Everytime we get a new yonko it’s always “they are weaker than the OG yonkos”

everytime we get a new admiral it’s always “they are weaker than the OG admirals” 

You guys don’t get tired of this?


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## Sablés (Aug 26, 2022)

A Optimistic said:


> Everytime we get a new yonko it’s always “they are weaker than the OG yonkos”
> 
> everytime we get a new admiral it’s always “they are weaker than the OG admirals”
> 
> You guys don’t get tired of this?


There must be something appealing about old men and women

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 1


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## Oberyn Nymeros (Aug 26, 2022)

A Optimistic said:


> Crocodile and Daz Bones alone easily neg diffed an entire buster call led by a vice admiral. In other words, a war between cross guild and the beast pirates would see the flying six and the headliners wiped out very quickly early on.


Even if we assume Croc and Daz are powerful Yonku commander level fighters, they're not wiping out Kaido's crew in the blink of an eye; that's what King, Queen and Jack are there for.

We both know a Buster Call is not actually filled with powerful fighters- at Eneis Lobby, the Strawhats while exhausted fought off every elite member that the Buster Call had to muster with little issue.


A Optimistic said:


> Everyone else on either side is irrelevant fodder


Of course that isn't the case.


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## Karma (Aug 26, 2022)

Hes the CG's YC1 in terms of power

Hes Beckmann tier


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## Shunsuiju (Aug 26, 2022)

Sablés said:


> Me: Oda can make Croc as strong as he wants
> You: Oda can make Usopp as strong as he wants.
> 
> The strawman lies in the fact that Usopp is _already _a quantified element. Croc is not. He's had 2 years to do whatever Oda saw fit to make him stronger along with the general benefits of power creep.


So Crocodile is Chopper level. Prove me wrong


Sablés said:


> We literally see Croc and Mr. 1 destroying the ships and marines in real-time. There is nobody else there besides them, nor is it suggested that there is anyone else. You made that shit up.


Fine, I concede that.

Still, we don't know how strong the opposition was. Jimbei could replicate that feat IMO.


A Optimistic said:


> A yonko crew is a yonko crew bro. Cross guild isn't weaker than other Yonko crews.


Then why is captaincy in dispute? Normally, the YC1 of a Yonko crew falls in line to the captain. Show me a YC1 who has his own first mate (Daz).


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## T-Bag (Aug 26, 2022)

IHateAnnoyingJerks said:


> If bounty is any indication, he's top tier, his bounty is close to BB's.


would have been higher had marines accounted for the creation of CG. But buggy taking the heat.


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## Oberyn Nymeros (Aug 26, 2022)

Sablés said:


> If you say so. But evidence would be nice


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## A Optimistic (Aug 26, 2022)

Shunsuiju said:


> Then why is captaincy in dispute? Normally, the YC1 of a Yonko crew falls in line to the captain. Show me a YC1 who has his own first mate (Daz)



It was explained why the captaincy is in dispute this chapter.


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## A Optimistic (Aug 26, 2022)

Oberyn Nymeros said:


>



why can’t Oars jr be a yc1 exactly? Dude got jumped by 3 shichibukai and still had the strength to carry the whitebeard pirates through the encircling gap


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## Shunsuiju (Aug 26, 2022)

A Optimistic said:


> It was explained why the captaincy is in dispute this chapter.


Do you think Marco, King, Katakuri or Beckman would ever dispute their captains authority?

The only similarity between Cross Guild and other Yonko crews is the power they hold over the New World as Emperors.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## 2waim (Aug 26, 2022)

I bet all my coins in admiral level

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


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## A Optimistic (Aug 26, 2022)

Shunsuiju said:


> Do you think Marco, King, Katakuri or Beckman would ever dispute their captains authority?
> 
> The only similarity between Cross Guild and other Yonko crews is the power they hold over the New World as Emperors.



who in cross guild is disputing that Mihawk is the strongest fighter in there? I don’t get your question


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## Sablés (Aug 26, 2022)

Oberyn Nymeros said:


>


Only one there who neg-diffs here were Bart and Oars. And yeah, no problem with the latter being top commander level while the former has one of the most Overpowered fruits. Even Oden can't get through it.


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## Sablés (Aug 26, 2022)

Shunsuiju said:


> So Crocodile is Chopper level. Prove me wrong





Shunsuiju said:


> Still, we don't know how strong the opposition was. Jimbei could replicate that feat IMO.


Of course Jinbei could. You've missed the point. This isn't arguing that Croc is confirmed X. This is about the idea that he "can't be x" through some nothing but personal disbelief. Crocodile can have improved as much as Oda wants. Nobody legitimately gets a near 2 billion bounty without strength. Robin has axed that potential.


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## Shunsuiju (Aug 26, 2022)

Sablés said:


> Crocodile can have improved as much as Oda wants.


Which doesn't prove anything

So why bring it up?


Sablés said:


> Nobody legitimately gets a near 2 billion bounty without strength. Robin has axed that potential.


Buggy


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## Sablés (Aug 26, 2022)

Shunsuiju said:


> Which doesn't prove anything




This is a counterargument AGAINST you, not for Croc.


Shunsuiju said:


> Buggy





Sablés said:


> Nobody *legitimately *gets a near 2 billion bounty without strength. Robin has axed that potential.


Buggy's bounty is literally based on a misunderstanding gag. If that's all you have to fall back on, then I think my point is made.


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## Shunsuiju (Aug 26, 2022)

Sablés said:


> This is a counterargument AGAINST you, not for Croc.


All I said was that I don't buy Crocodile's growth

You seem really butt hurt over this


Sablés said:


> Buggy's bounty is literally based on a misunderstanding gag. If that's all you have to fall back on, then I think my point is made.


What?  

The back pedal is insane...


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## A Optimistic (Aug 26, 2022)

Sablés said:


> Only one there who neg-diffs here were Bart and Oars. And yeah, no problem with the latter being top commander level while the former has one of the most Overpowered fruits. Even Oden can't get through it.



another thing is that the vice admiral that Bart defeated was called weak by another vice admiral in that very same arc. It’s clear vice admiral Maynard is at the bottom of the vice admiral totem pole


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## Sablés (Aug 26, 2022)

Shunsuiju said:


> All I said was that I don't buy Crocodile's growth


And the reply to you was that Oda can make characters receive gains for any reason. Croc was taken down before the power system was properly established. Now he's been off for 2 years and gotten his mojo back. He has better reasons than most.


Shunsuiju said:


> What?


Did you not read the chapter?


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## Sablés (Aug 26, 2022)

A Optimistic said:


> another thing is that the vice admiral that Bart defeated was called weak by another vice admiral in that very same arc. It’s clear vice admiral Maynard is at the bottom of the vice admiral totem pole


If he's the only vice-admiral who's been dogged on by his own boys, then he probably is 

VAs seem around the Vet-level to me in general.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Shunsuiju (Aug 26, 2022)

Sablés said:


> And the reply to you was that Oda can make characters receive gains for any reason. Croc was taken down before the power system was properly established. Now he's been off for 2 years and gotten his mojo back. He has better reasons than most.


Before the power system was established? What does that mean?


Sablés said:


> Did you not read the chapter?


The same guy who made Buggy's bounty made Crocodile's. Why would I believe one and completely disregard the other?

Crocodile being on par with other Shichibukai like Jimbei, Boa and Doflamingo is more in line with what the storys presented than being wildly stronger than them

Mihawk's the exception. It's always been that way.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Sablés (Aug 26, 2022)

Shunsuiju said:


> Before the power system was established? What does that mean?


Haki.


Shunsuiju said:


> The same guy who made Buggy's bounty made Crocodile's. Why would I believe one and completely disregard the other?


Cuz Croc's bounty is actually legitimate while Buggy's is based on his inflated reputation.



> Cut to the Navy Headquarters. Brannew is holding an emergency meeting. Brannew talks about Buggy, saying that he is not only the mastermind behind the Impel Down incident, he was also a member of the Pirate King's crew and* is said *he's a pirate that even rivals Red Hair of the "Yonkou". Brannew adds that Buggy's charisma managed to get Crocodile to help him when the Ouka Shichibukai was eliminated.





> "Buggy the Genius Jester"!! In addition to the previously mentioned... his power has made possible that Crocodile and Mihawk obey him...!!
> Bounty: 3,189,000,000 Berries!!


Both things we know for a fact are lies based on a gag.
I'll say it again:


Sablés said:


> If that's all you have to fall back on, then I think my point is made.


Next, I'm going to hear that Nami is really Yonko-level and has CoC because she beat Luffy up and scared Jinbei, something BM can't do. I hope you're ready to hold that belief if you want to be consistent.


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## Sablés (Aug 26, 2022)

Shunsuiju said:


> Crocodile being on par with other Shichibukai like Jimbei, Boa and Doflamingo is more in line with what the storys presented than being wildly stronger than them


And...you realize for Crocodile to be this strong, he must have made insane gains? At this point, your argument of Croc being much more powerful is no longer even the contention. It's just the degree that bothers you, and that is very much a "you problem" dude.

O-1000 is not much different than 0 - 2000 in this context as far as I'm concerned. By the way, the story isn't presenting these guys as on par either. Doflamingo's portrayal has fallen to the pits, Hancock is a wild unknown, Jinbei is one of Luffy's strongest commanders. Meanwhile Croc is the direct YC1 of Cross Guild and the actual founder. That's a bigger play than any of his companions have ever made and that is tied to his relevance and bounty.


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## Shunsuiju (Aug 26, 2022)

Sablés said:


> Haki.


All haki does is make Crocodile weaker. And haki existed in Marineford, did it not?


Sablés said:


> Cuz Croc's bounty is actually legitimate while Buggy's is based on his inflated reputation.


You don't think Crocodile getting a bump of 1.9B is a bit fishy?

Weevil got a bounty of 480M when Kizaru was comparing him to Whitebeard. Sabo had 602M. This is not a sound argument.


Sablés said:


> And...you realize for Crocodile to be this strong, he must have made insane gains? At this point, your argument of Croc being much more powerful is no longer even the contention. It's just the degree that bothers you, and that is very much a "you problem" dude.
> 
> O-1000 is not much different than 0 - 2000 in this context as far as I'm concerned.


There's a big difference between being strong for New World standards, and being Marco, or stronger.

I'm sure Oda wanted or intended Crocodile to be as strong as the likes of Jimbei, Boa, Doflamingo and prime Moria. His prize Shichibukai. But the story structure hindered that. It's a retcon as far as I'm concerned and not something you can explain as "he got his will back"


Sablés said:


> By the way, the story isn't presenting these guys as on par either. Doflamingo's portrayal has fallen to the pits, Hancock is a wild unknown, Jinbei is one of Luffy's strongest commanders. Meanwhile Croc is the direct YC1 of Cross Guild and the actual founder. That's a bigger play than any of his companions have ever made and that is tied to his relevance and bounty.


We haven't seen Doflamingo do anything for hundreds of chapters. Boa was hyped by Sengoku. Jimbei is constantly hyped.

So you think Crocodile would be above Zoro, Sanji and Yamato, in Luffy's crew? That would be comical.

Reactions: Like 1


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## deltaniner (Aug 26, 2022)

Shunsuiju said:


> All haki does is make Crocodile weaker. And haki existed in Marineford, did it not?


And, you're not gonna believe this... means Crocodile can learn it. Absolutely _insane_, I know.


Shunsuiju said:


> You don't think Crocodile getting a bump of 1.9B is a bit fishy?


It's up to _you_ to prove it's "Fishy". Which you can't because it's solely your opinion.


Shunsuiju said:


> I'm sure Oda wanted or intended Crocodile to be as strong as the likes of Jimbei, Boa, Doflamingo and prime Moria. His prize Shichibukai. But the story hindered that. It's a retcon as far as I'm concerned and not something you can explain as "he got his will back"


Hold on, hold on... you're _admitting_ Oda can just retcon to make Crocodile stronger?

Concession accepted.


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## Sablés (Aug 26, 2022)

Shunsuiju said:


> All haki does is make Crocodile weaker.


And...he can learn it for himself and get stronger.


Shunsuiju said:


> There's a big difference between being strong for New World standards, and being Marco, or stronger.
> 
> I'm sure Oda wanted or intended Crocodile to be as strong as the likes of Jimbei, Boa, Doflamingo and prime Moria. His prize Shichibukai. But the story hindered that. It's a retcon as far as I'm concerned and not something you can explain as "he got his will back"


I would not even put those characters on the same level. Prime Moria sounds like a beast.
Doflamingo pre-timeskip also had a much better portrayal than in Dressrossa, so I'm not sure even he's the same anymore.

Shichibukai's portrayal has always been extremely awkward. It's clear they're meant to be considered the same as high-level commanders or above. For Croc to reach that level is also an extreme jump. The jump to Marco isn't much compared to that. It's like you walk 10 kilometers and complain that another kilometer is too much imagine.


Shunsuiju said:


> So you think Crocodile would be above Zoro, Sanji and Yamato, in Luffy's crew? That would be comical.


I don't think he has to be above Zoro or Yamato. But there would be no issue if he was.
To you it might be, but I fail to see the significance.


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## IchijiNijiSanji (Aug 26, 2022)

Sablés said:


> Robin has almost all of this and is the most wanted woman in the entire world. She doesn't break a billion. Marco hyped King and Queen as enemies that were insanely difficult in his situation because they were billion bounties. It's clear that at that point, incredibly strength is required.
> 
> Is Croc the only one not allowed to benefit from powercreep or something.



Robin has knowledge. She doesn't have *almost* all of that. 
Crocodile basically has the cash to fund the Crossguild company and the connections to make it happen along with the influence. 
That guy lost to alabasta luffy, and was entirely dependent on his logia and craftiness in a fight instead of being a decent fighter.
In marineford as well he was below Luffy but his craftiness and boldness allowed him to thrive and look more impressive than he actually was

If Oda wanted to show how much stronger he got he'd have done it by having him take out someone strong but irrelevant like Oven or sth. Mihawk still gets the "Red Hair" comparison, Croc gets his bounty based on his logia (Which we already saw preskip he had mastery over) and his connections. 

I'm not saying Croc didn't grow stronger, but he's not relevant in my mind to commander levels in terms of power. He's all stature, and Oda even in MF didn't pretend any differently with Doflamingo wanting to partner up with him (even though he'd be weaker than his family since he was below preskip Luffy still)


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## Sablés (Aug 26, 2022)

IchijiNijiSanji said:


> Robin has knowledge. She doesn't have *almost* all of that.


Robin doesn't have connections to the Revs and a Yonko crew?


IchijiNijiSanji said:


> Crocodile basically has the cash to fund the Crossguild company


He explicitly did not. That is why he wanted Buggy to pay him back.
The funding they are getting now is from other companies who are interested in the marine hunting business. It was not something Croc originally had.


IchijiNijiSanji said:


> If Oda wanted to show how much stronger he got he'd have


Oda literally hasn't shown him fight. He showed an appetizer of him rescuing Buggy. So no, this isn't an argument.


IchijiNijiSanji said:


> In marineford as well he was below Luffy


No evidence, whatsoever.


IchijiNijiSanji said:


> I'm not saying Croc didn't grow stronger, but he's not relevant in my mind to commander levels in terms of power.


Cite any character who *legitimately *gets to be the number 2 fighter in a Yonko organization and has a near 2 billion bounty that is not commander-level. There is none. Marco literally says him getting pushed by King and Queen in that circumstance is expected of their bounties.


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## Shunsuiju (Aug 26, 2022)

Sablés said:


> And...he can learn it for himself and get stronger.


I was just referring to the fact that a logia becomes weaker when haki is involved. but whatever.


Sablés said:


> Shichibukai's portrayal has always been extremely awkward. It's clear they're meant to be considered the same as high-level commanders or above. For Croc to reach that level is also an extreme jump. The jump to Marco isn't much compared to that. It's like you walk 10 kilometers and complain that another kilometer is too much imagine.


Yonko>Marco>Doflamingo

If anything, Marco is closer to a Yonko than he is to Doflamingo.


Sablés said:


> I don't think he has to be above Zoro or Yamato. But there would be no issue if he was.
> To you it might be, but I fail to see the significance.


You fail to see the significance of Crocodile beating Zoro right now?

Reactions: Like 1


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## Sablés (Aug 26, 2022)

Shunsuiju said:


> Yonko>Marco>Doflamingo


That's nice for Doflamingo.
Why's it relevant to anyone else?


Shunsuiju said:


> You fail to see the significance of Crocodile beating Zoro right now?


No, not really. Is there one?


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## deltaniner (Aug 26, 2022)

IchijiNijiSanji said:


> That guy lost to alabasta luffy, and was entirely dependent on his logia and craftiness in a fight instead of being a decent fighter.


... Logia use and craftiness _is part_ of being a fighter. This is like saying "Luffy's dependent on DF and haki instead of being a decent fighter", something that would _rightfully _laughed at.


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## IchijiNijiSanji (Aug 26, 2022)

deltaniner said:


> ... Logia use and craftiness _is part_ of being a fighter. This is like saying "Luffy's dependent on DF and haki instead of being a decent fighter", something that would _rightfully _laughed at.



Here's what I mean: When Luffy was able to touch crocodile after wetting himself with his blood and wasn't encumbered by carrying around a giant barrel of water or being mizu luffy he _*mollywhopped* _him. He beat him so bad, he had him seeing his ancestors. Crocodile had to rely on things like his poison hook (which is what I meant by craftiness) to poison luffy so he'd atleast fall over after beating him. Croc couldn't get a hit on luffy at that point. He didn't have the speed, strength or melee skill. 
Luffy uses his fruit to amplify these things, croc uses his fruit in ways than don't require strength or dexterity in a fight like sucking out moisture or creating cyclones or making blades


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## Shunsuiju (Aug 26, 2022)

Sablés said:


> That's nice for Doflamingo.
> Why's it relevant to anyone else?


I think Doflamingo is a reasonable estimate for Crocodile after recieving a retcon from pre-timeskip to fit the current narrative.


Sablés said:


> No, not really. Is there one?


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## Sablés (Aug 26, 2022)

Shunsuiju said:


> I think Doflamingo is a reasonable estimate for Crocodile after recieving a retcon from pre-timeskip to fit the current narrative.


We're not discussing what's reasonable. Depending on who you ask comparing Croc to DD is already unreasonable. This discussion is about what is possible. You don't get to decide that. Oda does. 
Alabasta was nice. How about you post the scene where Croc tanks a named attack from the guy who made Aokiji bleed and proceeds to spend the rest of the war attacking guys well above his station at the time.


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## Shunsuiju (Aug 26, 2022)

Sablés said:


> We're not discussing what's reasonable. Depending on who you ask comparing Croc to DD is already unreasonable.


Those would be _dumbies_, in my opinion


Sablés said:


> Alabasta was nice. How about you post the scene where Croc tanks a named attack from the guy who made Aokiji bleed and proceeds to spend the rest of the war attacking guys well above his station at the time.


I'm half trolling  

I don't think the Jozu scene did him any favors.


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## IchijiNijiSanji (Aug 26, 2022)

Sablés said:


> Robin doesn't have connections to the Revs and a Yonko crew?



Crocodiles connections are just way bigger and vaster, enough that he could fund his own yonko crew



Sablés said:


> He explicitly did not. That is why he wanted Buggy to pay him back.
> The funding they are getting now is from other companies who are interested in the marine hunting business. It was not something Croc originally had.



I meant from his connection and his personal capital. Which 



Sablés said:


> Oda literally hasn't shown him fight. He showed an appetizer of him rescuing Buggy. So no, this isn't an argument.



So he had him beat fodder marines, not even a vice admiral. Yeah its an argument, its no different from him at marineford.



Sablés said:


> No evidence, whatsoever.



Got stonewalled by Luffy and his power to do that commented on by Marco. Plus Luffy went a lot farther despite that. 



Sablés said:


> Cite any character who *legitimately *gets to be the number 2 fighter in a Yonko organization and has a near 2 billion bounty that is not commander-level. There is none. Marco literally says him getting pushed by King and Queen in that circumstance is expected of their bounties.



Why, crocodile himself. 
The entire top of the Crossguild so far is Just Mihawk and Croc and Buggy. Even from a cursory look they aren't a full fledged yonko crew at all and would lose 10/10 times to any proper yonko even if you wanked croc to YC1 levels. The only one who had his power scaled was Mihawk. 

ALso, we literally see what criteria they used to grant Croc his bounty: His Logia and his cunning. Nowhere in that is his strength, and we've seen Oda say he'd give Enel 500 million with preskip rates for his logia

The onus should be on Croc supporters to show explicitly that he has strength above those qualities. But there isn't much supporting that except for you scaling off of other characters who got that bounty off of that level of strength.


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## Lee-Sensei (Aug 26, 2022)

IchijiNijiSanji said:


> Robin has knowledge. She doesn't have *almost* all of that.
> Crocodile basically has the cash to fund the Crossguild company and the connections to make it happen along with the influence.
> That guy lost to alabasta luffy, and was entirely dependent on his logia and craftiness in a fight instead of being a decent fighter.
> In marineford as well he was below Luffy but his craftiness and boldness allowed him to thrive and look more impressive than he actually was
> ...


Crocodile didn’t awaken his fruit, so it wasn’t mastered. He probably has Haki now too. Add in his almost Yonko level bounty and it wouldn’t be outrageous to assume he’s Commander level.


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## T-Bag (Aug 26, 2022)

Waiting for crocodile to destroy a top YC so people will stop doubting him. 2b berry man , shichibukai, mihawk's partner, and we're at the end of the series with crazy strong guys aiming for the throne and people wanna doubt my mans? naah

Reactions: Informative 1


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## IchijiNijiSanji (Aug 26, 2022)

T-Bag said:


> Waiting for crocodile to destroy a top YC so people will stop doubting him. 2b berry man , shichibukai, mihawk's partner, and we're at the end of the series with crazy strong guys aiming for the throne and people wanna doubt my mans? naah



YOUR MAN SHOULD BE DOFLAMINGO WITH THAT AVY


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## T-Bag (Aug 26, 2022)

IchijiNijiSanji said:


> YOUR MAN SHOULD BE DOFLAMINGO WITH THAT AVY


he's locked up 

croc and flamingo are the best characters in OP


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## Sablés (Aug 26, 2022)

IchijiNijiSanji said:


> Crocodiles connections are just way bigger and vaster, enough that he could fund his own yonko crew


Crocodile isn't funding the Yonko Crew.
His connections are fairly unknown.
His bounty came from his logia ability, brilliance, and charisma. Anything else is your inference, m8.


IchijiNijiSanji said:


> I meant from his connection and his personal capital. Which



He did not do so himself. He lent Buggy money so he didn't have it. Buggy didn't have it either. The money they are getting now is from the fame they have received POST-Yonko status, not before.


IchijiNijiSanji said:


> So he had him beat fodder marines, not even a vice admiral. Yeah its an argument, its no different from him at marineford.


Stainless was there, so yes, there was a Vice-Admiral in addition to his fleet.
No, it's not an argument, because you would demand that any fighter would need to defeat someone to be registered at a certain-level. Do you know how ridiculous that statement would be in the world where the author constantly keeps his big players in the dark?


IchijiNijiSanji said:


> Got stonewalled by Luffy and his power to do that commented on by Marco. Plus Luffy went a lot farther despite that.


Croc stonewalled Akainu and Mihawk the same way Luffy stonewalled him.



IchijiNijiSanji said:


> Why, crocodile himself.





IchijiNijiSanji said:


> ALso, we literally see what criteria they used to grant Croc his bounty: His Logia and his cunning. Nowhere in that is his strength,


Crocodile's own logia power is not strength? I can't.


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## IchijiNijiSanji (Aug 26, 2022)

Sablés said:


> Crocodile isn't funding the Yonko Crew.
> His connections are fairly unknown.
> His bounty came from his logia ability, brilliance, and charisma. Anything else is your inference, m8.



And none of those make his criteria strength based.



Sablés said:


> He did not do so himself. He lent Buggy money so he didn't have it. Buggy didn't have it either. The money they are getting now is from the fame they have received POST-Yonko status, not before.


He had money, just not enough to start his own company. Then buggy agreed to work for free for him and they started it. With the flyers they then sent out people then raked in more. The connections matter to this point.



Sablés said:


> Stainless was there, so yes, there was a Vice-Admiral in addition to his fleet.


Yeah stainless was there... somewhere. We don't see Croc or Mr 1 fight him though. Its like saying Vice admirals were there at Enies Lobby, yeah they were, but they didn't fight anyone.




Sablés said:


> No, it's not an argument, because you would demand that any fighter would need to defeat someone to be registered at a certain-level. Do you know how ridiculous that statement would be in the world where the author constantly keeps his big players in the dark?



Crocodile isn't a big player in the dark, we've seen him in the past and we know mans can't fight.



Sablés said:


> Croc stonewalled Akainu and Mihawk the same way Luffy stonewalled him.



Nah Luffy actually stonewalled the man by kicking him away with his water coated leg while being commended for his strength
Crocodile just interrupted Mihawk and Akainu and didn't actually get a shot off on them.

Cross guild is an exception to prior yonko crews, so yeah, can't use any other precedents with appeal to authority

Its not a yonko crew in its power at all, so your fallacy is the appeal to authority not taking into consideration the exceptions



Sablés said:


> Crocodile's own logia power is not strength? I can't.



It is part of his strength, but how many times have you seen someone be described as strong solely because of their logia by new world standards? If someone says "his logia is very strong" currently no one is gonna bat an eye until they his haki and general combat ability.


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## TheOmega (Aug 26, 2022)

Shichibukai level. Just like Doflamingo, Mihawk, Kuma & em


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## OG sama (Aug 26, 2022)

Croc being a logia means absolutely nothing, don’t even know why that BS is even being used to defend him, anybody that has Haki can beat tf out of a logia, unless Croc has some great Haki his self and he perhaps might have some decent Haki, we got guys with all three types and at an advanced level, his logia intangibility means nothing.

He better be some FS user like Katakuri with great shape shifting ability that might make him pretty formidable, we will see if Oda wants to go all in on this Croc wank the way some of the fans here are so sold on his level. Croc is more a businessman than a fighter, he would rather operate behind the scenes than fight in the frontlines, he doesn’t necessarily need to be as strong as YC1s, but it depends on what Oda wants for him.


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## T-Bag (Aug 26, 2022)

OG sama said:


> He better be some FS user like Katakuri with great shape shifting ability that might make him pretty formidable, we will see if Oda wants to go all in on this Croc wank the way some of the fans here are so sold on his level. Croc is more a businessman than a fighter, he would rather operate behind the scenes than fight in the frontlines, he doesn’t necessarily need to be as strong as YC1s, but it depends on what Oda wants for him.


more of a businessman than a fighter? Bro you think crocodile made a name for himself  all over the workd for being a businessman? You trippiinn


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## Sablés (Aug 26, 2022)

IchijiNijiSanji said:


> And none of those make his criteria strength based.


"Mighty logia ability" is strength based


IchijiNijiSanji said:


> He had money, just not enough to start his own company. Then buggy agreed to work for free for him and they started it. With the flyers they then sent out people then raked in more. The connections matter to this point.


So he didn't have the funds to run the company. He only had the manpower. You're certainly right that he would have the connections through Buggy, but that is not stated to be the reason for his bounty.


IchijiNijiSanji said:


> Yeah stainless was there... somewhere. We don't see Croc or Mr 1 fight him though. Its like saying Vice admirals were there at Enies Lobby, yeah they were, but they didn't fight anyone.


Ah right. So Stainless, who was sent to capture Buggy somehow vanished into thin air while all his men were defeated and his ships sunk.Ever think he was just off-panel'd given we only get a single shot of Crocodile and Mr. 1? Nah that would be crazy, because then you'd have to admit the guy with a 2 billion bounty and headliner of a Yonko crew would be strong.


IchijiNijiSanji said:


> Crocodile isn't a big player in the dark, we've seen him in the past and we know mans can't fight.


Correction. Crocodile wasn't in Alabasta. This discussion is about his progress. The past is irrelevant.


IchijiNijiSanji said:


> Nah Luffy actually stonewalled the man by kicking him away with his water coated leg while being commended for his strength
> Crocodile just interrupted Mihawk and Akainu and didn't actually get a shot off on them.




Crocodile aimed for Whitebeard. Luffy jumped him while his attention was elsewhere and Crocodile recognized that Luffy remembered how to fight his weakness. Akainu was aiming for Luffy and Jinbei. Crocodile jumped him and stopped his attack. Mihawk was chasing Luffy. Crocodile stopped his attack (or Mihawk stopped his, either way doesn't matter) and Mihawk stopped chasing.

if "stonewall" is your evidence for being stronger, then I suppose Croc was already top-tier in MF.

He ain't the only one either. Marco stonewalled Kizaru from WB. Then kicked Aokiji's ass across a city-block to get him away from Luffy. Jozu later did the same thing to get Aokiji away from Whitebeard, both commanders countering logia intangibility with haki.

I suppose they are also superior to the admirals by your logic.




IchijiNijiSanji said:


> Cross guild is an exception to prior yonko crew
> 
> Its not a yonko crew in its power at all, so your fallacy is the appeal to authority not taking into consideration the exceptions


That is not what I asked. I asked you to explain what 2nd in command (fighter/no gags) has ever had a near 2 billion bounty and has been anything but commander-level. You cannot reply Crocodile, because that would enacting circular logic. He is the subject of the argument. So...do you have a case?

And who told you CG isn't a Yonko crew in power?  Did Oda mention that?


IchijiNijiSanji said:


> It is part of his strength, but how many times have you seen someone be described as strong solely because of their logia by new world standards? If someone says "his logia is very strong" currently no one is gonna bat an eye until they his haki and general combat ability.


We literally have it stated right out of the gate that logia are useless in the new world. Who the hell was referring to its intangibility? How did it escape you that they could just be referring to Crocodile's power itself. As in, his ability with the logia is enough to be considered mighty, therefore a strength, _not that logia in general are mighty_. You have just explained why that is not the case.

Seems to me you're suffering a severe case of confirmation bias. Several times, in this post alone, you have used your own premise as evidence for your argument.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## A Optimistic (Aug 27, 2022)

IchijiNijiSanji said:


> Yeah stainless was there... somewhere. We don't see Croc or Mr 1 fight him though. Its like saying Vice admirals were there at Enies Lobby, yeah they were, but they didn't fight anyone.



Are you implying Stainless just stood there as his fleet sunk? Stainless just volunteer let himself drown in the sea?

Not sure if the Enies Lobbies example works, the Straw Hats were fighting CP-9 that arc, not the Vice Admirals. Crocodile specifically attacked Stainless’ fleet and sunk all the ships including the ship Stainless was sailing.

Your only options are that Stainless fought back and was defeated or stood there and did nothing while he and all his men drowned.


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## IchijiNijiSanji (Aug 27, 2022)

Sablés said:


> "Mighty logia ability" is strength based


Yeah and..? I never denied logia is part of strength, it's not that impressive at this point no matter how might the logia



Sablés said:


> So he didn't have the funds to run the company. He only had the manpower. You're certainly right that he would have the connections through Buggy, but that is not stated to be the reason for his bounty.
> 
> Ah right. So Stainless, who was sent to capture Buggy somehow vanished into thin air while all his men were defeated and his ships sunk.Ever think he was just off-panel'd given we only get a single shot of Crocodile and Mr. 1?



Croc sunk a few ships created and opening and escaped.
No different from those at Enies lobby where Onigumo and 4 other vice admirals just watched

Oda would atleast show the VA getting beaten instead of Croc only fighting fodder. He even showed it with maynard.  



Sablés said:


> Correction. Crocodile wasn't in Alabasta. This discussion is about his progress. The past is irrelevant.


The past is relevant unless he went on a coby like training arc to learn how to fight.



Sablés said:


> Wrong.
> 
> Crocodile aimed for Whitebeard. Luffy jumped him while his attention was elsewhere and Crocodile recognized that Luffy remembered how to fight his weakness. Akainu was aiming for Luffy and Jinbei. Crocodile jumped him and stopped his attack. Mihawk was chasing Luffy. Crocodile stopped his attack (or Mihawk stopped his, either way doesn't matter) and Mihawk stopped chasing.
> 
> if "stonewall" is your evidence for being stronger, then I suppose Croc was already top-tier in MF.



No one commended Croc's strength when he did those things, they simply looked like interruptions which were defended against.
Croc couldn't defend himself against Luffy and he had his strength commended by marco on seeing that. After that some no name new world WB pirates stood infront of Croc blocking him from attacking further by crossing their blades infront of him. 






Sablés said:


> He ain't the only one either. Marco stonewalled Kizaru from WB. Then kicked Aokiji's ass across a city-block to get him away from Luffy. Jozu later did the same thing to get Aokiji away from Whitebeard, both commanders countering logia intangibility with haki.


 
Marco and Kizaru actually fought for an extended period of time and they were atleast close enough that the admirals, same for Joz, and they had to rely on seastone and distractions while they were emotionally stricken by watching whitebeard get heart attacks. They didn't then get walled off by fodder. 

None that looks like when Croc went and interrupted people way on a different level than him. 



Sablés said:


> That is not what I asked. I asked you to explain what 2nd in command (fighter) has ever had a near 2 billion bounty and has been anything but a commander. YOu cannot reply Crocodile, because that would enacting circular logic. He is the subject of the argument. So...do you have a case?


I pretty much can because Cross Guild is an exception. There's nothing circular about outliers that don't fit the trend of other yonko.



Sablés said:


> And who told you CG isn't a Yonko crew in power?  Did Oda mention that?



They have Crocodile and Mihawk as their top fighters
Big Mom had Big Mom, Katakuri, Cracker, Smoothie and others like Oven
Kaido had himself, King, Queen, Jack and Tobiroppo. 
CG is missing a whole yonko crew, they're obviously lacking in power compared to a full yonko. 



Sablés said:


> We literally have it stated right out of the gate that logia are useless in the new world. Who the hell was referring to its intangibility? How did it escape you that they could just be referring to Crocodile's power itself. As in, his ability with the logia is enough to be considered therefore a strength, not that logia in general are mighty. You have just explained why that is not the case.



Logia intangibility stocks have fallen beyond a certain level not that all logia are useless in situations. They still are still powerful logia (like Enel's Goro Goro) on which basis Oda said he'd be about 500 million.

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## Nighty the Mighty (Aug 27, 2022)

How dumb as a reader do you have to be to see a guy get like the 12th highest bounty of literally all time that we know of and think 'yeah this guy is probably a vet level these days'

Reactions: Like 5 | Winner 1


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## IchijiNijiSanji (Aug 27, 2022)

A Optimistic said:


> Are you implying Stainless just stood there as his fleet sunk? Stainless just volunteer let himself drown in the sea?
> 
> Not sure if the Enies Lobbies example works, the Straw Hats were fighting CP-9 that arc, not the Vice Admirals. Crocodile specifically attacked Stainless’ fleet and sunk all the ships including the ship Stainless was sailing.
> 
> Your only options are that Stainless fought back and was defeated or stood there and did nothing while he and all his men drowned.



We've seen plenty of cases of ships being sunk but the main guys not getting involved. 
Crocodile didn't sink ALL the marine ships. He just sunk a bunch to make his entry and got on the island since they had surrounded the coast.
Show me where his ship was sunk?


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## Nighty the Mighty (Aug 27, 2022)

Crocodile's bounty is vastly above any of the top yonkou commanders. The only foreseeable exception to this is Ben Beckman.

The man is admiral level, no two ways about it.


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## T-Bag (Aug 27, 2022)

Nighty the Mighty said:


> How dumb as a reader do you have to be to see a guy get like the 12th highest bounty of literally all time that we know of and think 'yeah this guy is probably a vet level these days'


You didnt know? Hes a businessman more than a fighter

Reactions: Funny 2


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## IchijiNijiSanji (Aug 27, 2022)

Damn missed the part when they were issuing new bounties and the reasoning for croc was "OMG CROC his strength rivals an admiral" instead of miscellaneous things like his Logia fruit and "cunning"

You know, unlike mihawk where they actually said something about his rivalry with shanks


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## Sablés (Aug 27, 2022)

IchijiNijiSanji said:


> it's not that impressive at this point no matter how might the logia


Circular logic #1


IchijiNijiSanji said:


> Croc sunk a few ships created and opening and escaped.
> No different from those at Enies lobby where Onigumo and 4 other vice admirals just watched
> 
> Oda would atleast show the VA getting beaten instead of Croc only fighting fodder. He even showed it with maynard.


...What the hell are you talking about?

How did Croc escape, he was going to the island Buggy was on. The same Buggy that Stainless was there to capture and they were talking in the middle of the beach. What do you think Stainless was doing while this was happening?

Please stop this cope. It's actually absurd. Yes Stainless was off-panel'd. This is a flashback, all that mattered were Buggy and Croc. Kaido barely gets a flashback. Many expected events in Wano were skipped and you're here to complaining that a VA wasn't shown getting the boot. Bruh



IchijiNijiSanji said:


> The past is relevant unless


Yes, that "unless" is the important part. You have no idea what happened, so your persistence in assuming he hasn't greatly improved is entirely unfounded.


IchijiNijiSanji said:


> No one commended Croc's strength when he did those things,


Why does strength need to be commended when the actions and consequences were the same? The enemies were stopped because of him.



IchijiNijiSanji said:


> Croc couldn't defend himself against Luffy
> i


Why would Croc be able to defend himself from an attack he didn't even know was coming to him, when he was focused on WHITEBEARD. I suppose Akainu, who actually had CoO couldn't defend himself from Croc. Croc stronk.


IchijiNijiSanji said:


> and he had his strength commended by marco on seeing that.


Marco isn't commenting Luffy's strength. Luffy stopped Croc and announced that he wouldn't let him hurt the man that Ace cares about most. That is what Marco responded to. Amazing how you make any morsel of evidence seem like it's strength related yet ignore all evidence for Croc in terms of strength.



IchijiNijiSanji said:


> Marco and Kizaru actually fought for an extended period of time and they were atleast close enough that the admirals, same for Joz, and they had to rely on seastone and distractions while they were emotionally stricken by watching whitebeard get heart attacks. They didn't then get walled off by fodder.


Irrelevant. We're not talking about their overall strength. We're talking about the scene in question. Using your logic, Marco and Jozu are stronger than the admirals because they did the very thing you're saying Luffy did to Croc. It's almost like blindsides are cheap and you're cherry-picking their relevance like crazy. By the way, Luffy and Croc have no extended fight, so you basically admit that there is no reason to think Luffy is stronger, as blindsides by themselves are not evidence.


IchijiNijiSanji said:


> I pretty much can because Cross Guild is an exception.


Circular logic #2

Said who? Can you cite where Oda called Cross Guild an exception?


IchijiNijiSanji said:


> They have Crocodile and Mihawk as their top fighters


Mihawk is Yonko-level
Croc and Mr. 1 fill up the commander seats
Buggy and co fill up the fodder ranks

Simple. Unless they get more commanders of course, but even then, there's no reason to believe Croc wouldn't sit at the top and CG would still be a conventional Yonko crew.


IchijiNijiSanji said:


> Logia intangibility


You mean the thing I'm saying is completely useless? Please read my post again.


Sablés said:


> We literally have it stated right out of the gate that logia are useless in the new world. Who the hell was referring to its intangibility? How did it escape you that* they could just be referring to Crocodile's power itself. As in, his ability with the logia is enough to be considered mighty*, therefore a strength, _not that logia in general are mighty_. You have just explained why that is not the case.



Croc's logia is not mighty because it is a logia. It is a mighty logia ability that Croc wields and his bounty reflects that.
Do you understand the difference?


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## IchijiNijiSanji (Aug 27, 2022)

Sablés said:


> Circular logic #1



Do you even know what that means anymore  



Sablés said:


> ...What the hell are you talking about?
> 
> How did Croc escape, he was going to the island Buggy was on. The same Buggy that Stainless was there to capture and they were talking in the middle of the beach. What do you think Stainless was doing while this was happening?



Sink the ships, break the formation, while stainless is scrambling take buggy and leave. I already gave examples of this.



Sablés said:


> Please stop this cope. It's actually absurd. Yes Stainless was off-panel'd. This is a flashback, all that mattered were Buggy and Croc. Kaido barely gets a flashback. Many expected events in Wano were skipped and you're here to complaining that a VA wasn't shown getting the boot. Bruh



Croc was actually shown fighting marines and they were fodder. Sorry, we weren't shown the high ranking marine off panelled if oda took the time to show Croc dealing with fodder. Like not even a bubble saying "Stainless was taken OUT"



Sablés said:


> Yes, that "unless" is the important part. You have no idea what happened, so your persistence in assuming he hasn't greatly improved is entirely unfounded.


His bounty still based on logia so... 



Sablés said:


> Why does strength need to be commended when the actions and consequences were the same? The enemies were stopped because of him.



Daz bones also stopped MIhawk and got one shot in the next panel. Oda was just keeping Croc around so people who could've easily done him in either stopped to talk to him or ignored him and move on. That matters.




Sablés said:


> Why would Croc be able to defend himself from an attack he didn't even know was coming to him, when he was focused on WHITEBEARD. I suppose Akainu, who actually had CoO couldn't defend himself from Croc. Croc stronk.



The people he attacked like mihawk defended themselves.
Akainu wasn't hurt by Croc at all since no CoA so and was also interrupted by other people who did no damage either before promptly finishing them off..... His threat didn't end just because of that.



Sablés said:


> Marco isn't commenting Luffy's strength. Luffy stopped Croc and announced that he wouldn't let him hurt the man that Ace cares about most. That is what Marco responded to. Amazing how you make any morsel of evidence seem like it's strength related yet ignore all evidence for Croc in terms of strength.



What marco said about luffy isn't about his morality its clearly about his strength stop the cap.
Croc also got held off then by no name pirates.



Sablés said:


> Irrelevant. We're not talking about their overall strength. We're talking about the scene in question. Using your logic, Marco and Jozu are stronger than the admirals because they did the very thing you're saying Luffy did to Croc. It's almost like blindsides are cheap and you're cherry-picking their relevance like crazy. By the way, Luffy and Croc have no extended fight, so you basically admit that there is no reason to think Luffy is stronger, as blindsides by themselves are not evidence.



Nah I admit Luffy is stronger because Croc was then walled off by no name pirates and his threat was completely neutralized. None of that existed with the commanders vs admirals where after a cheap shot from Jozu suddenly aokiji was prevented from approaching WB by no name new world pirates.


Sablés said:


> Said who? Can you cite where Oda called Cross Guild an exception?



Buggy being the figurehead already makes it exceptional.



Sablés said:


> Mihawk is Yonko-level
> Croc and Mr. 1 fill up the commander seats



Mans now boosting Mr1 to YC levels too... 


Sablés said:


> Croc's logia is not mighty because it is a logia. It is a mighty logia ability that Croc wields and his bounty reflects that.
> Do you understand the difference?



Croc's logia is mighty because Suna Suna no mi is a powerful fruit and Croc has trained it to be exceptional as we saw preskip.

Its the same as how Goro Goro was mighty preskip and Enel trained it to its best form. Plus Oda said Enel would have a bounty of 500 million preskip before all this bounty inflation happened, so its probably a billy  by post skip standards

They even threw in cunning to justify his bounty, explicitly along side his logia so his logia gave him a billy, and his cunning gave him a billy. The math maths and checks out.


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## Shunsuiju (Aug 27, 2022)

Forget Croc. I wanna see YC2+ Bentham

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## Ludi (Aug 27, 2022)

akainuDragonFan said:


> pre skip enel or ace level which I would say is below doffy


pre skip Enel isn't remotely close to ace, and ace isn't weaker than Doflamingo.


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## OG sama (Aug 27, 2022)

T-Bag said:


> You didnt know? Hes a businessman more than a fighter


What fighting has he been doing all TS then? I really want you to show me these combat feats of him beating Yonko and Yonko commanders, breaching Yonko territories, fighting Yonko allied captains and destroying them, where are all these combat feats at???

He’s specifically mentioned for his logia ability and cunning, pay attention to that word, that cunning is what allowed him to convince Mihawk to join his side saying they both don’t trust anyone. That statement shows that Croc is extremely charismatic. He’s got some power, but he and the others got exceptionally high bounties for putting bounties on the heads of actual marines, Croc and the others are taking advantage of the chaos the revos created on the marines by turning the hunters into the hunted, he’s extremely intelligent, i thought this was Buggy’s work but we learn it’s been all Crocs doing.

CG got high bounties for specifically being marine hunters and Brannew even states because they are already dealing with shit already, this made CG massive threats to them.



So Crocs bounty is extremely high because he and CG are picking fights with the marines specifically, they are a direct threat unlike any other of the Yonko because the other Yonko aren’t targeting them specifically. Those bounties don’t have a whole lot to do with individual strength. Croc didn’t get a big bounty boost because he’s stronger than the other YC1 or anything like that.

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## xmysticgohanx (Aug 27, 2022)

viz translation will help us out


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## OG sama (Aug 27, 2022)

xmysticgohanx said:


> viz translation will help us out


It certainly will, but it’s pretty obvious to me, if you are picking fights with the marines specifically, targeting them specifically then you are going to be viewed as a bigger threat then other pirates to them, because most of the time, the pirates are doing their own thing. It’s unlike pirates to this, only the revos really have acted as marine hunters or usurpers. So it’s no wonder to me that Croc has an near 2 billion bounty, he’s the brains behind literally all this, and they barely know that, he’s been operating behind the scenes, scheming, paying attention to the chaos that the revos and other rebellions have created against the marines, and decided to make that worse for them creating an organization to put bounties on their heads instead of the other way around, it’s a genius plan, it’s that cunning and him being apart of all this that got him that high bounty.

It was his high intellect that got him a high bounty, he’s still got a powerful fruit as well, but he isn’t as much of a fighter as he is a businessman and schemer that much was evident in the chapter.


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## T-Bag (Aug 27, 2022)

OG sama said:


> What fighting has he been doing all TS then? I really want you to show me these combat feats of him beating Yonko and Yonko commanders, breaching Yonko territories, fighting Yonko allied captains and destroying them, where are all these combat feats at???
> 
> He’s specifically mentioned for his logia ability and cunning, pay attention to that word, that cunning is what allowed him to convince Mihawk to join his side saying they both don’t trust anyone. That statement shows that Croc is extremely charismatic. He’s got some power, but he and the others got exceptionally high bounties for putting bounties on the heads of actual marines, Croc and the others are taking advantage of the chaos the revos created on the marines by turning the hunters into the hunted, he’s extremely intelligent, i thought this was Buggy’s work but we learn it’s been all Crocs doing.
> 
> ...


strength and high bounty go hand in hand bro. You can get real technical like you just did by implying that mihawk and croc have such high bounties because they kill marines which is true i aint arguing that point. BUT at the same time oda is painting a big threat atmosphere around croc by giving him 2b berry. Because from a writing perspective, villains/YC are getting stronger and they have to reflect bigger bounties bigger than katakuri, king. And if killing marines is one way to inflate the bounty to reflect his power level then so be it.

jack was chasing attacking marine ship with admirals and doflamingo inside, he was a crazy mfer. His bounty could have been high for these reasons but it reflected his strength pretty well

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## OG sama (Aug 27, 2022)

T-Bag said:


> strength and high bounty go hand in hand bro. You can get real technical like you just did by implying that mihawk and croc have such high bounties because they kill marines which is true i aint arguing that point. BUT at the same time oda is painting a big threat atmosphere around croc by giving him 2b berry. Because from a writing perspective, villains/YC are getting stronger and they have to reflect bigger bounties than katakuri, king. And if killing marines is one way to inflate the bounty to reflect his power level then so be it.


We will have to see what exactly he does then, if he isn’t beating any Admirals or Top Tiers but instead just scheming behind the scenes then the burden of proof to prove that Croc is this Top Tier or this YC1 level guy is all on you, that bounty shit means nothing, I need to see him actually take down some folk, the reason for his extremely high bounty has already been mentioned in the chapter, I got my evidence, I need you to prove that he has the strength to back all 2 billion of that bounty up.


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## Sablés (Aug 27, 2022)

IchijiNijiSanji said:


> Do you even know what that means anymore





> it's not that impressive at this point no matter how might the logia


You literally have no idea how strong Crocodile's logia is at the moment. You have just decided it isn't, and running with it as both your premise, your evidence, and your conclusion.


IchijiNijiSanji said:


> Sink the ships, break the formation, while stainless is scrambling take buggy and leave. I already gave examples of this.


They didn't take Buggy and leave. They were literally in the middle of the beach standing there talking. 
Crocodile and Daz Bones were in the middle of the ships posing.
Why didn't Stainless stop them? You have provided nothing but a false equivalence to that.


IchijiNijiSanji said:


> His bounty still based on logia so...


Yes, his logia. 
It's like saying Kaido's bounty is based on his mighty mythical zoan, but you think it's about zoans across the board instead of Kaido's power with the zoan.


IchijiNijiSanji said:


> Daz bones also stopped MIhawk and got one shot in the next panel.


You realize this just further proves my point that these single instance clashes you're using are basically worthless right?
That is exactly what it means for Luffy intercepting Croc.
All of them are illegitimate.


IchijiNijiSanji said:


> What marco said about luffy isn't about his morality its clearly about his strength stop the cap.


Citation. Show me where Marco talked specifically about strength. 


IchijiNijiSanji said:


> Nah I admit Luffy is stronger because Croc was then walled off by no name pirates


Wrong. Croc was kept at bay by _numbers_ which is why Jozu had to take himself out of the war to get to him. With  a named attack that Croc tanked, but I'm sure you'll ignore that.


IchijiNijiSanji said:


> Buggy being the figurehead already makes it exceptional.


No it doesn't. Buggy's resources are not fraudulent.
In MF WB genuinely believed his men were an asset as they were all level six prisoners from Impel Down. Buggy is the joke. His resources are not.


IchijiNijiSanji said:


> Mans now boosting Mr1 to YC levels too...


Croc+ Mr. 1 filling up the seats doesn't mean Mr 1 has to be YC1
The penny will drop eventually I'm sure.


IchijiNijiSanji said:


> Croc's logia is mighty because Suna Suna no mi is a powerful fruit and Croc has trained it to be exceptional as we saw preskip.


Counterpoint, Croc's logia is mighty because he can have  trained his fruit further, enhanced it with haki and awakening.


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## T-Bag (Aug 27, 2022)

OG sama said:


> We will have to see what exactly he does then, if he isn’t beating any Admirals or Top Tiers but instead just scheming behind the scenes then the burden of proof to prove that Croc is this Top Tier or this YC1 level guy is all on you, that bounty shit means nothing, I need to see him actually take down some folk, the reason for his extremely high bounty has already been mentioned in the chapter, I got my evidence, I need you to prove that he has the strength to back all 2 billion of that bounty up.


Crocodiles time is coming. You will get all the evidence you need papa


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## Sablés (Aug 27, 2022)

OG sama said:


> It certainly will, but it’s pretty obvious to me, if you are picking fights with the marines specifically, targeting them specifically then you are going to be viewed as a bigger threat then other pirates to them, because most of the time, the pirates are doing their own thing. It’s unlike pirates to this, only the revos really have acted as marine hunters or usurpers. So it’s no wonder to me that Croc has an near 2 billion bounty, he’s the brains behind literally all this, and they barely know that, he’s been operating behind the scenes, scheming, paying attention to the chaos that the revos and other rebellions have created against the marines, and decided to make that worse for them creating an organization to put bounties on their heads instead of the other way around, it’s a genius plan, it’s that cunning and him being apart of all this that got him that high bounty.
> 
> It was his high intellect that got him a high bounty, he’s still got a powerful fruit as well, but he isn’t as much of a fighter as he is a businessman and schemer that much was evident in the chapter.


Robin has high intellect and arguably the greatest knowledge in the world.
On top of that, she demolished a F6 so she's no scrub in the NW.
No billions there.

Can you point to me who got a 2B bounty based on high intellect alone?


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## Rob (Aug 27, 2022)

Crocodile


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## OG sama (Aug 27, 2022)

Sablés said:


> Robin has high intellect and arguably the greatest knowledge in the world.
> On top of that, she demolished a F6 so she's no scrub in the NW.
> No billions there.
> 
> Can you point to me who got a 2B bounty based on high intellect alone?


If you are targeting the marines and putting bounties on their head and are apart of a Yonko crew designed to do that then yeah you should have a very high bounty.

Crocs bounty without all the added stuff I mentioned in this post and the previous might be about as big as Robins is right now.


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## Sablés (Aug 27, 2022)

OG sama said:


> If you are targeting the marines and putting bounties on their head and are apart of a Yonko crew designed to do that then yeah you should have a very high bounty.
> 
> Crocs bounty without all the added stuff I mentioned in this post and the previous might be about as big as Robins is right now.


Robin is in a Yonko crew. Her mere existence is a massive threat to an entity greater than the marines, the WG, and she is actively pursuing the treasure they fear exposed.  930 million.

You cannot come up with a convincing reason for Crocodile to be more than double her bounty that doesn't involve strength. There is no pirate who has a 2B bounty that is not at the level of a top commander. And there is certainly not one that...is a top-commander by default.


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## OG sama (Aug 27, 2022)

Sablés said:


> Robin is in a Yonko crew. Her mere existence is a massive threat to an entity greater than the marines, the WG, and she is actively pursuing the treasure they fear exposed.  930 million.
> 
> You cannot come up with a convincing reason for Crocodile to be more than double her bounty that doesn't involve strength. There is no pirate who has a 2B bounty that is not at the level of a top commander. And there is certainly not one that...is a top-commander by default.


You just stated why her bounty should in fact be much higher than it is, but it’s like I said, all of the SHs bounties have been deflated to hide their real threat level. Look at Zoro having a significantly smaller bounty than the guy he beat? Look at Jinbei having a higher bounty than Sanji for beating a 600 million berri pirate? Look at Sanji having a smaller bounty than Queen even though he kicked Queens ass clean off an entire island? Look at Luffy having the same bounty as Kid and Law even though he beat Kaido? While they required a team up to beat BM. Look at the Gorosei trying to hide the Nika form entirely from Luffys wanted poster and the world entirely.

Depends on how much of his bounty is strength and how much is his cunning intellect.  He’s also a former Schichibukai and she’s not, we see how much being a shichibukai matters because Jinbei has a bounty higher than Sanjis and on par with Zoros and Sanjis and he isn’t exactly nearly as strong as either one of them really.

The SHs also aren’t closer to discovering One Piece than any of the other Yonko at the moment, the race is completely wide open right now. They won’t be a serious threat to the WG in the WG eyes until that time comes, in the meantime, an organization like CG designed to hunt marines is going to obviously be more of a threat to them right now as of this moment, especially after already being low on manpower as it is because of the Revo army.


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## Karma (Aug 27, 2022)

Nighty the Mighty said:


> How dumb as a reader do you have to be to see a guy get like the 12th highest bounty of literally all time that we know of and think 'yeah this guy is probably a vet level these days'


Its actually the 9th highest

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


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## Sablés (Aug 27, 2022)

OG sama said:


> You just stated why her bounty should in fact be much higher than it is, but it’s like I said, all of the SHs bounties have been deflated to hide their real threat level. Look at Zoro having a significantly smaller bounty than the guy he beat? Look at Jinbei having a higher bounty than Sanji for beating a 600 million berri pirate? Look at Sanji having a smaller bounty than Queen even though he kicked Queens ass clean off an entire island? Look at Luffy having the same bounty as Kid and Law even though he beat Kaido? While they required a team up to beat BM. Look at the Gorosei trying to hide the Nika form entirely from Luffys wanted poster and the world entirely.


What do you mean "all" the SH bounties? People have been complaining that Jinbei's bounty is inflated. Luffy is the only one for which you can make an argument of his bounty being compromised, but even that is based on sound logic of splitting the defeat of the Yonko 3 ways, as it was an equal alliance. Anything as it relates to Zoro and the others is merely dissatisfied opinions. Zoro can have a lower bounty than King for not being around as long or have as many achievements (crimes) to his name as King, or being as volatile as King. Bounties are not 1:1 power level.


OG sama said:


> Depends on how much of his bounty is strength and how much is his cunning intellect. He’s also a former Schichibukai and she’s not, we see how much being a shichibukai matters because Jinbei has a bounty higher than Sanjis and on par with Zoros and Sanjis and he isn’t exactly nearly as strong as either one of them really.


Jinbei is a pirate that's been around from the previous generation, captain of the sun pirates, and is renowned just for his race. He has also never been pushed by a non-admiral/Yonko even on land, not to speak of the ocean. This, again, a rationalization. Not the truth.



OG sama said:


> The SHs also aren’t closer to discovering One Piece than any of the other Yonko at the moment, the race is completely wide open right now. They won’t be a serious threat to the WG in the WG eyes until that time comes, in the meantime, an organization like CG designed to hunt marines is going to obviously be more of a threat to them right now as of this moment, especially after already being low on manpower as it is because of the Revo army.


SHs have nearly all  the poneglyphs, are emperors, and Robin knows how to read them. On top of Nika, they are no longer an entity the WG can ignore. Stop the cap.

Nobody is legitly in the billions without being insanely strong. Marco heavily implied this against King and Queen.
Oda doesn't announce Crocodile with a top 10 bounty just to tell us he's Vet-level/YC4 or whatever some people call it. Absurd.

Reactions: Winner 2


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## Perrin (Aug 27, 2022)

He was 44 preskip. So he’s probably just hitting his growth spurt.

Reactions: Funny 3


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## OG sama (Aug 27, 2022)

Sablés said:


> What do you mean "all" the SH bounties? People have been complaining that Jinbei's bounty is inflated. Luffy is the only one for which you can make an argument of his bounty being compromised, but even that is based on sound logic of splitting the defeat of the Yonko 3 ways, as it was an equal alliance. Anything as it relates to Zoro and the others is merely dissatisfied opinions. Zoro can have a lower bounty than King for not being around as long or have as many achievements (crimes) to his name as King, or being as volatile as King. Bounties are not 1:1 power level.
> 
> Jinbei is a pirate that's been around from the previous generation, captain of the sun pirates, and is renowned just for his race. He has also never been pushed by a non-admiral/Yonko even on land, not to speak of the ocean. This, again, a rationalization. Not the truth.
> 
> ...


Look at all the contradictions in this post lolllllll, so let me get this straight, Zoro having a lower bounty than the guy he beat is warranted becauuuuuuse…. King has been around longer and Zoro doesn’t have quite as much achievements or fame??? And if we don’t agree with that we are butthurt??? Lol look at this obvious fanboy bias, like nibba wtf??? You can literally say this exact same shit for Croc and Jinbei having higher bounties than Robin and Zoro and Sanji. Like you are proving the absolute fuck out of my post and you don’t even realize it!!!

Proving my point!!!! You think rationally when trying to downplay Zoro but you can’t think rationally about Crocs bounty? All this shit you are listing for Jinbei, guess tf what??? I can list for Croc as well!!! Like I can’t even with this shit.

They are a threat the WG can not ignore…but yet they are doing their best to hide the threat they pose…come on bruh, if they want the SHs gone and completely wiped out, then they ought to give them their correct bounties then, not some deflated shit. It’s obvious to me they know how much of a threat they pose, but they haven’t came after the marines YET, they don’t have shit on the marines YET, they haven’t learned the true history YET, they aren’t closer to the One Piece than Shanks or the other Yonko YET, which is why until then they won’t be a bigger problem than CG or the Revos, because those organizations are attacking the marines directly.

Nobody is saying Croc is going to come back weak, but it’s obvious to me his bounty is exceptionally higher than any Yonko commanders because unlike other Yonko crews the one Croc is on is actively hunting marines. Crocs bounty could be exactly a billion without the marine shit, that would still put his bounty on par with Jacks, a YC3 level commander. I’m not saying Croc is going to be weak, but do I expect him to be a Top Tier or as strong as Mihawk, hell tf no, he’s a past defeated villain, why in the hell would he have the same kind of hype a future antagonist and the WSS like Mihawk have??? That doesn’t make any sense and is nothing more than  wishing thinking and fanboy dreams of Croc fans.


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## Ayy lmao (Aug 27, 2022)

OG sama said:


> It certainly will, but it’s pretty obvious to me, if you are picking fights with the marines specifically, targeting them specifically then you are going to be viewed as a bigger threat then other pirates to them, because most of the time, the pirates are doing their own thing. It’s unlike pirates to this, only the revos really have acted as marine hunters or usurpers.


And yet pre-5th Yonko Sabo, the 2nd in command of the Revos, only had a bounty of 600M, despite the Revos being a far bigger opposition to the World Government  than Cross Guild.  Croc is at best considered by the WG to be the 2nd in command of Cross Guild, yet he has a bounty triple that of the Revos 2nd in command? And it is completely unrelated to his strength??



OG sama said:


> Those bounties don’t have a whole lot to do with individual strength. Croc didn’t get a big bounty boost because he’s stronger than the other YC1 or anything like that.





OG sama said:


> So it’s no wonder to me that Croc has an near 2 billion bounty, he’s the brains behind literally all this, and they barely know that, he’s been operating behind the scenes, scheming, paying attention to the chaos that the revos and other rebellions have created against the marines,


How can you state the WG barely know Croc is the brain behind Cross Guild because he's doing so behind the scenes, yet simultanuesly claim that he got his bounty not because of his strength, but because the WG know he's the brain behind Cross Guild    ?


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## OG sama (Aug 27, 2022)

Ayy lmao said:


> And yet pre-5th Yonko Sabo, the 2nd in command of the Revos, only had a bounty of 600M, despite the Revos being a far bigger opposition to the World Government  than Cross Guild.  Croc is at best considered by the WG to be the 2nd in command of Cross Guild, yet he has a bounty triple that of the Revos 2nd in command?
> 
> Also, how can you state the WG barely know Croc is the brain behind Cross Guild, yet simultanuesly claim that he got his bounty not because of his strength, but because the WG know he's the brain behind Cross Guild    ?


Because Sabo is a young upstart, he isn’t a veteran pirate like Croc, he just recently started to gain tons of fame for his fights against Fuji and the Reviere stuff.

I said that wrong, he got his high bounty from his high intellect and powerful logia ability, he’s also a former warlord, and a veteran pirate, with just as much fame and experience as Jinbei and other big shot pirates. He’s now working with Mihawk, another Warlord and the WSS, and apart of a Yonko crew that’s specifically hunting marines.

Not surprised a veteran pirate is going to have a higher bounty than Sabo, when Sabo is a young dude who most don’t know enough about.


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## Ayy lmao (Aug 27, 2022)

OG sama said:


> Because Sabo is a young upstart, he isn’t a veteran pirate like Croc, he just recently started to gain tons of fame for his fights against Fuji and the Reviere stuff.
> 
> I said that wrong, he got his high bounty from his high intellect and powerful logia ability, he’s also a former warlord, and a veteran pirate, with just as much fame and experience as Jinbei and other big shot pirates. He’s now working with Mihawk, another Warlord and the WSS, and apart of a Yonko crew that’s specifically hunting marines.
> 
> Not surprised a veteran pirate is going to have a higher bounty than Sabo, when Sabo is a young dude who most don’t know enough about.


Pretty sure he has been a Revo for longer time than Luffy has been a pirate, so I would hardly call him an upstart. 
Ok, so you're now saying the cunning/ behind the scene scheming is not part of the reason for why he got his bounty?


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## OG sama (Aug 27, 2022)

Ayy lmao said:


> Pretty sure he has been a Revo for longer time than Luffy has been a pirate, so I would hardly call him an upstart.
> Ok, so you're now saying the cunning/ behind the scene scheming is not part of the reason for why he got his bounty?


He’s a young upstart, Luffys only 19, Sabo isn’t a lot older… and definitely not as old as Croc or as active as Croc.

I am… it’s mentioned in the chapter, is it not? I guess I somehow forgot to include that in because you know, Croc is a vet, he’s done a lot of shit.


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## Perrin (Aug 27, 2022)

Strobacaxi said:


> Most overrated is probably Crocodile
> 
> People out there saying he's YC1+ LOL


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## T-Bag (Aug 27, 2022)

@OG sama
Actually..i might be contradicting myself a bit here buuut Buggy is the one taking credit for the creation of CG. As far as navy understand crocodile and mihawk just joined recently as buggy’s “*new* executives”
Crocodile’s bounty is heavily dependent on his “powerful logia and charisma/intelligence” basically what we’ve known about croc since the beginning. Nothing was mentioned that the reason he has such an excessive bounty is because he’s out here putting bounties on marines. That’s all theories of people tryna cope with why he has such a high bounty. They dont wanna believe he’s EASILY a YC1+.
I been telling people forever that crocodile is top yonko commander, go check out my thread from last year where i pitted him against shiryu and i was the only one who voted crocodile. Everyone was saying he gets smacked easily as if he were don krieg or something. Well now it’s looking that i was more in the right direction than most people when it comes to croc’s strength. So what im saying is his bounty is no surprise to me

Look where we are in the story. Do you honestly believe that crocodile, a yonko executive with 2b berries, former warlord isnt one of the strongest guys around? Cmon my dude. Common sense is all you need to figure this out.


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## Sablés (Aug 27, 2022)

OG sama said:


> Look at all the contradictions in this post lolllllll, so let me get this straight, Zoro having a lower bounty than the guy he beat is warranted becauuuuuuse…. King has been around longer and Zoro doesn’t have quite as much achievements or fame??? And if we don’t agree with that we are butthurt??? Lol look at this obvious fanboy bias, like nibba wtf??? You can literally say this exact same shit for Croc and Jinbei having higher bounties than Robin and Zoro and Sanji. Like you are proving the absolute fuck out of my post and you don’t even realize it!!!


The difference is that I'm not saying Crocodile is stronger than Zoro for having a bounty higher than Zoro or any other YC1. I am telling you that NOBODY gets a bounty that high, specifically 2 billion, without strength. Buggy is the sole exception as a gag, but even his power base is legitimate.

Every single excuse you've mentioned can be tied to character who have LESS than a billion. Crocodile's bounty is 300 million off an actual Yonko.


OG sama said:


> They are a threat the WG can not ignore…but yet they are doing their best to hide the threat they pose


Literally everyone who matters knows about Robin.
The WG isn't hiding the bounties or threats of the SHS. ONLY Luffy at best.



OG sama said:


> Nobody is saying Croc is going to come back weak, but it’s obvious to me his bounty is exceptionally higher than any Yonko commanders because unlike other Yonko crews the one Croc is on is actively hunting marines. Crocs bounty could be exactly a billion without the marine shit, that would still put his bounty on par with Jacks, a YC3 level commander.


This was never my issue.

Crocodile is 2B for his intelligence, charisma, and logia power. I said that the former cannot allow a pirate to break a billion alone. Everyone in that territory is at least as strong as a Yonko commander.  Crocodile is the second (technically founder) of Cross Guild. There's no reason at all to think he will beneath that. His status warrants it by default.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Perrin (Aug 27, 2022)

spawn3 said:


> -Crocodile's bounty was frozen. As per Oda, "if Crocodile still had an active bounty, it would probably be at least double that of 81 million."


To be fair. The new bounty is at least double.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 2


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## Shunsuiju (Aug 27, 2022)

Sablés said:


> bounties


Why did Weevil get such a low bounty at 480 million when he was compared to a young Whitebeard?


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## Perrin (Aug 27, 2022)

Shunsuiju said:


> Why did Weevil get such a low bounty at 480 million when he was compared to a young Whitebeard?


We don’t know how young the WB they were referring to.


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## Tsukuyomi (Aug 27, 2022)

@T-Bag 
@Sablés 


Give up.
*let's just wait for feats.
These Lads are feats munchers.
Let's just wait for Oda to deliver.*


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## T-Bag (Aug 27, 2022)

Tsukuyomi said:


> @T-Bag
> @Sablés
> 
> 
> ...


Baaah i cant waitt. Inpatient when it comes to crocodile because i been defending his status in the power hierarchy  ever since i came to OL. And now that im slowly being proven right im getting inpatient lol

Reactions: Friendly 1


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## NotTommy (Aug 27, 2022)

Atleast YC1. I'm guessing slightly above Katakuri and King at the least. He's crazy strong, I hope to see his awakening.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Canute87 (Aug 27, 2022)

Perrin said:


> He was 44 preskip. So he’s probably just hitting his growth spurt.


indeed he had a dry spell


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## OG sama (Aug 27, 2022)

If Croc doesn’t beat any Top Tiers or YCs all this wank will be completely useless and all for nothing lol smh.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Nighty the Mighty (Aug 29, 2022)

Croc is beating Im in the final war


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## Lord Melkor (Aug 29, 2022)

NotTommy said:


> Atleast YC1. I'm guessing slightly above Katakuri and King at the least. He's crazy strong, I hope to see his awakening.



Exactly, people think Mihawk would respect Croc like this if he was complete fodder to him? Consider their portrayal side to side in Chapter 1058.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## Shunsuiju (Aug 29, 2022)

Lord Melkor said:


> Exactly, people think Mihawk would respect Croc like this if he was complete fodder to him? Consider their portrayal side to side in Chapter 1058.


Crocodile was talking down to Whitebeard pre-ts. We can't properly gauge his strength based on how he talks to people who are stronger than him.

People's expectations are way too high here. Doflamingo's not even as strong as the commanders Greenbull fodderized together.


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## DeVision (Aug 29, 2022)

Lord Melkor said:


> Exactly, people think Mihawk would respect Croc like this if he was complete fodder to him? Consider their portrayal side to side in Chapter 1058.





DeVision said:


> I don't think Mihawk would've agreed to make a partnership if they were worlds apart. Mihawk is most likely above him, but not far.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Eustathios (Aug 29, 2022)

-gets wrecked by pre TS Luffy
-gets smacked by a commander and has to be saved by Doffy
-stands tall against Akainu when he has Marco and the commanders to use as a shield against Akainu

That's not the portrayal of someone who's even elite commander lvl, let alone a top tier. I hope Croc actually shows something cause people here are wild with the expectations. I vividly remember how you'd be called delusional for claiming RT Zoro was not that much stronger than FMs. I've learned from those days.


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## DeVision (Aug 29, 2022)

Eustathios said:


> -gets wrecked by pre TS Luffy
> -gets smacked by a commander and has to be saved by Doffy
> -stands tall against Akainu when he has Marco and the commanders to use as a shield against Akainu
> 
> That's not the portrayal of someone who's even elite commander lvl, let alone a top tier. I hope Croc actually shows something cause people here are wild with the expectations. I vividly remember how you'd be called delusional for claiming RT Zoro was not that much stronger than FMs. I've learned from those days.



Didn't he stop Mihawk too? And Akainu before Marco and the rest appeared?

Reactions: Like 1


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## Eustathios (Aug 29, 2022)

DeVision said:


> Didn't he stop Mihawk too? And Akainu before Marco and the rest appeared?


Mihawk blocked an attack from him. He randomly attacked Akainu who wasn't even paying attention to Croc before letting Marco take over once Luffy was gone and Akainu focused on them.

Croc in MF was just talking shit to people he had no chance against and getting away with it because they had bigger fish to worry about. Jozu was about to wreck him before Doffy got in the way.


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## Sablés (Aug 29, 2022)

Eustathios said:


> Mihawk blocked an attack from him. He randomly attacked Akainu who wasn't even paying attention to Croc before letting Marco take over once Luffy was gone and Akainu focused on them.
> 
> Croc in MF was just talking shit to people he had no chance against and getting away with it because they had bigger fish to worry about. Jozu was about to wreck him before Doffy got in the way.


What you're saying here is not the same as:


Eustathios said:


> -stands tall against Akainu when he has Marco and the commanders to use as a shield against Akainu


Croc stood in front of anyone and everyone if he had to. Also why are you ignoring that Jozu blindsided him and failed to leave debilitating damage with a named attack


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## Shunsuiju (Aug 29, 2022)

Sablés said:


> What you're saying here is not the same as:
> 
> Croc stood in front of anyone and everyone if he had to. Also why are you ignoring that Jozu blindsided him and failed to leave debilitating damage with a named attack


Was this before or after Luffy put him in his place?


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## Sablés (Aug 29, 2022)

Shunsuiju said:


> Was this before or after Luffy put him in his place?


Luffy put Croc in his place about as well as Croc put Mihawk and Akainu in theirs. Or like Marco did Aokiji. You pick


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## Shunsuiju (Aug 29, 2022)

Sablés said:


> Luffy put Croc in his place about as well as Croc put Mihawk and Akainu in theirs. Or like Marco did Aokiji. You pick


The massive outlier here is that Luffy was way out of his league fighting the Admirals and Mihawk. With Crocodile, he was just fine.


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## Sablés (Aug 29, 2022)

Shunsuiju said:


> The massive outlier here is that Luffy was way out of his league fighting the Admirals and Mihawk. With Crocodile, he was just fine.


You got reading issues dude? I said *Crocodile* put Mihawk and Akainu in their place using the same bollocks argument you would use for Luffy in MF.


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## Shunsuiju (Aug 29, 2022)

Sablés said:


> You got reading issues dude? I said *Crocodile* put Mihawks and Akainu in their place using the same bollocks argument you would use for Luffy.


How so? He didn't get the better of either of them like Luffy did to him. You're grasping at straws


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## Sablés (Aug 29, 2022)

Shunsuiju said:


> How so? He didn't get the better of either of them like Luffy did to him. You're grasping at straws


Luffy blindsides Croc with a kick and stops him from getting WB. Croc blindsides Mihawk and Akainu and stop them from getting Luffy.

Or like how Marco kicked Aokiji to the other side of MF to stop him from getting Luffy. Or when Jozu did the same to Aokiji to make him back off Whitebeard 

Almost like you shouldn't make a mountain  out of a feat where the one being attacked isn't even aware the attack is coming.


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## Shunsuiju (Aug 29, 2022)

Sablés said:


> Luffy blindsides Croc with a kick and stops him from getting WB. *Croc blindsides Mihawk and Akainu and stop them from getting Luffy.*
> 
> Or like how Marco kicked Aokiji to the other side of MF to stop him from getting Luffy. Or when Jozu did the same to Aokiji to make him back off Whitebeard
> 
> Almost like you shouldn't make a mountain  out of a feat where the one being attacked isn't even aware the attack is coming.


Mihawk blocked the attack (didn't get overpowered) and what he did to Akainu was all his devil fruit, not his own power.

Why did Crocodile back off after Luffy did that? You think he just felt bad for the kid? Luffy called him old news.


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## Eustathios (Aug 29, 2022)

Sablés said:


> Luffy blindsides Croc with a kick and stops him from getting WB. Croc blindsides Mihawk and Akainu and stop them from getting Luffy.
> 
> Or like how Marco kicked Aokiji to the other side of MF to stop him from getting Luffy. Or when Jozu did the same to Aokiji to make him back off Whitebeard
> 
> Almost like you shouldn't make a mountain  out of a feat where the one being attacked isn't even aware the attack is coming.


Yes, in all those cases it was established that it wouldn't be easy to get to the target without significant effort. Hence Marco's comment about reaching the king or Kizaru's _battle-deciding moment_ sentence. If Croc saw Luffy as a significant obstacle, then he'd be the weakest YC1+ lvl character we know of.

I'm open to all possibilities for the future, but the idea that Croc's past feats can be retroactively seen as those of someone who's stronger than the likes of Katakuri and RT Zoro for example is baffling to me.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Sablés (Aug 29, 2022)

Shunsuiju said:


> Mihawk blocked the attack (didn't get overpowered) and what he did to Akainu was all his devil fruit, not his own power.
> 
> Why did Crocodile back off after Luffy did that? You think he just felt bad for the kid? Luffy called him old news.


Irrelevant. In all cases, the blind-sided party was inconvenienced. Mihawk even stopping chasing Luffy altogether. Croc didn't even stop. He was swarmed by WB pirates. Your example is dogshit plain and simple. Next time bring a feat where Luffy didn't sneak attack him in MF. Next you'll tell me Oden was fodder to Kaido because he was hit from the back.


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## Shunsuiju (Aug 29, 2022)

Sablés said:


> Irrelevant. In all cases, the blind-sided party was inconvenienced. Mihawk even stopping chasing Luffy altogether. Croc didn't even stop. He was swarmed by WB pirates. Your example is dogshit plain and simple. Next time bring a feat where Luffy didn't sneak attack him in MF


luffy physically overpowered him. its just that simple. he wouldve won that fight because he already beat croc.


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## Sablés (Aug 29, 2022)

Shunsuiju said:


> luffy physically overpowered him.


Overpowered him like Marco Overpowered Aokiji..maybe. Just give it up. There is no feat to be found from attacking someone who doesn't fucking know he's there. Insane you would argue this for Luffy when he not 6 months ago got pinned down by CP0 in the middle of his own attack. 


Shunsuiju said:


> its just that simple. he wouldve won that fight because he already beat croc.


That's nice and you're free to believe that but it would have nothing to do with the sneak attack he pulled.


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## Captain Quincy (Aug 29, 2022)

Power ups are completely plot based, it's not *impossible* for Croc to be too strong. He'll be as strong as Oda needs him to be no matter how (non)sensical it seems.

As far as battledome goes, whether you believe current Croc may just be stronger than MF Croc or not, until there's evidence his strength grew since then, he would still scale to the same level as MF.


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## Captain Quincy (Aug 29, 2022)

Captain Quincy said:


> until there's evidence his strength grew since then


with that being said there might be evidence for it in the latest chapter depending on how you look at things


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## Sablés (Aug 29, 2022)

Captain Quincy said:


> with that being said there might be evidence for it in the latest chapter depending on how you look at things


Croc off paneld the marines that had Stainless om board, and Buggy called him a bigger threat from the onset so those two points would coincide. So if you think MF Croc could no diff a VA with considerable backup whike he had Daz Bones then sure there's no evidence of improvement.


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## Shunsuiju (Aug 29, 2022)

Sablés said:


> That's nice and you're free to believe that but it would have nothing to do with the sneak attack he pulled.


it has everything to do with it. the only take away from that scene is that croc was still competitive with luffy.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Sablés (Aug 29, 2022)

Shunsuiju said:


> it has everything to do with it. the only take away from that scene is that croc was still competitive with luffy.


As competitive as CP0 was against Luffy and the various other sneak attacks in the setting. No the takeaway is that Luffy knows how to perfectly counter Croc's intangibility. Anything further is reaching.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Shunsuiju (Aug 29, 2022)

Sablés said:


> As competitive as CP0 was against Luffy and the various other sneak attacks in the setting. *No the takeaway is that Luffy knows how to perfectly counter Croc's intangibility.* Anything further is reaching.


what is this cope? so you think croc would have shit stomped luffy there like the yc1+++ he is?

the in-universe reason croc is stronger now post-ts than he was pre-ts is that he got his willpower back. he went to the new world and re-kindled the potential he threw away after losing to whitebeard.

im confused now. the other day you were backing this idea and now youre saying he was always this strong.


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## Sablés (Aug 29, 2022)

Shunsuiju said:


> what is this cope? so you think croc would have shit stomped luffy there like the yc1+++ he is?


Is this a strawman? 


Shunsuiju said:


> the in-universe reason croc is stronger now post-ts than he was pre-ts is that he got his willpower back. he went to the new world and re-kindled the potential he threw away after losing to whitebeard.
> 
> im confused now. the other day you were backing this idea and now youre saying he was always this strong.


trace my argument back and quote where I said this.


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## Jin22 (Aug 29, 2022)

Weak tier
Already lost tier
Weaker than Robin tier

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## OG sama (Aug 29, 2022)

Eustathios said:


> -gets wrecked by pre TS Luffy
> -gets smacked by a commander and has to be saved by Doffy
> -stands tall against Akainu when he has Marco and the commanders to use as a shield against Akainu
> 
> That's not the portrayal of someone who's even elite commander lvl, let alone a top tier. I hope Croc actually shows something cause people here are wild with the expectations. I vividly remember how you'd be called delusional for claiming RT Zoro was not that much stronger than FMs. I've learned from those days.


And yet people expect Croc to be as strong as King and Katakuri by deciding to scheme behind the scenes rather than go out and try to figure out a way to beat these guys smh.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## Sablés (Aug 29, 2022)

OG sama said:


> And yet people expect Croc to be as strong as King and Katakuri by deciding to scheme behind the scenes rather than go out and try to figure out a way to beat these guys smh.


People expect the number two powerhouse in a Yonko crew with the highest bounty to be at least around the number two powerhouses in a Yonko crew?

Crazy shit


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## Shunsuiju (Aug 29, 2022)

Sablés said:


> Is this a strawman?


is that not what you think?


Sablés said:


> trace my argument back and quote where I said this.





Sablés said:


> And the reply to you was that Oda can make characters receive gains for any reason. Croc was taken down before the power system was properly established. *Now he's been off for 2 years and gotten his mojo back. He has better reasons than most.*
> 
> Did you not read the chapter?


And most of page 6.

i might have changed my opinion on it too so im not flaming you. i just want to know where you stand now. i think he got his mojo back in the 2 years and is now around Jimbei level.


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## Shunsuiju (Aug 29, 2022)

Sablés said:


> People expect the number two powerhouse in a Yonko crew with the highest bounty to be at least around the number two powerhouses in a Yonko crew?
> 
> Crazy shit


get this fan canon tier list outta here


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## Sablés (Aug 29, 2022)

Shunsuiju said:


> is that not what you think?


Uh no? I have made no arguments for MF Crocodile. I was arguing against the points @Eustathios brought up.

MF Croc's feats at face value wouldn't even make him commander level



Shunsuiju said:


> And most of page 6.
> 
> i might have changed my opinion on it too so im not flaming you. i just want to know where you stand now. i think he got his mojo back in the 2 years and is now around Jimbei level.


Jinbei level is fine with me too. Anywhere in the commander bracket is reasonable. I believe he'll be at the topof it though. Endgame scenario in a crew that has to prioritize is quality over quantity to stay competitive


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## Captain Quincy (Aug 29, 2022)

Sablés said:


> VA


Vice admirals in general don't have impressive portrayal so this doesn't mean much, at least not to me since I already believed MF Croc was commander level. Stainless in particular doesn't have any noteworthy showings.

Regardless, that's not what I had in mind Sables kun.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Shunsuiju (Aug 29, 2022)

Sablés said:


> Uh no? I have made no arguments for MF Crocodile. I was arguing against the points @Eustathios brought up.
> 
> MF Croc's feats at face value wouldn't even make him commander level


ok got it. my bad


Sablés said:


> Jinbei level is fine with me too. Anywhere in the commander bracket is reasonable




sorry for being antagonistic then


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