# Star Wars vs Bleach



## Hozukimaru (Mar 29, 2013)

I have no idea how strong low tier star wars is and naruto forums isn't that much into star wars match-ups so please don't blame me for doing this xD

1. Average Clone trooper vs Average Shinigami
(I have no idea what i'm doing, average shinigami doesn't have shunpo)
2. Average Jedi Youngling vs Hisagi 
(Jedi Younglins are the ones that Anakin killed in the movie aren't they?)
3. Average Jedi Padawan vs Komamura
(Komamura solos?)
4. Average Jedi Knight vs Yama G

Bonus:
Ok now if the Knight won put him against Bleach verse.
If Yama G won then put the Knight against Ulquiorra. 
Note:
I seriously don't want to underastimate SW so i did my best to make this fair. 
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and because you can't have a star wars thread without sw stomping a scenario: Darth Vader vs Yama G


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## MAPSK (Mar 29, 2013)

Clorox gets destroyed.


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## Hozukimaru (Mar 29, 2013)

MAPSK said:


> Clorox gets destroyed.



In all scenarios? Dx
Damn and i really wanted Bleach to win lol


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## MAPSK (Mar 29, 2013)

The Storm Troopers are debatable, but any Force-sensitive is going to bring about rectal ragnarok for the Bleach cast.


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## Hozukimaru (Mar 29, 2013)

MAPSK said:


> The Storm Troopers are debatable, but any Force-sensitive is going to bring about rectal ragnarok for the Bleach cast.



Even the 5 years old Jedi Youngling?
I mean Hisagi is a supersonic fighter and the Youngling doesn't know how to use any advanced force uses of the force like mind control but should be able to barely force jump and have some other basic abilities.


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## MAPSK (Mar 29, 2013)

Force precog and a lightsaber is really all you need here.


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## Fenrir (Mar 29, 2013)

Huh. /10characters


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## Hozukimaru (Mar 29, 2013)

So a lightsaber can pretty much cut clean through them and their swords and force precog is good enough to laugh at double digit mach speeds?


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## lokoxDZz (Mar 29, 2013)

Just because they have a barely sense of precog and a lightsaber isn't mean they will react fast enough even with preocg to a double digi mah speed,you can hate this but this is just too much.


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## MAPSK (Mar 29, 2013)

Me hating Bleach? More like you wanking it. Even the Force precog of shit tier Jedi and younglings can adapt to react to lightspeed attacks. There is literally nothing anyone in Clorox can do to a Force sensitive who's being serious. If you want to debate for Clorox having even a semblance of a chance here, focus on the Storm troopers, because that's the most convincing argument you're going to make.


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## Stermor (Mar 29, 2013)

yama jij doesn't care.. 

he won't come close.. he'll just light the hole place on fire.. and jedi knight or not.. they don't have the movement speed to get out of the aoe??


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## MAPSK (Mar 29, 2013)

Yama G wouldn't even have enough time to _think_ about doing that before a mature Jedi Knight starts to stick his metaphysical dick into his mind. Jedi mind trick, biatch.


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## Stermor (Mar 29, 2013)

MAPSK said:


> Yama G wouldn't even have enough time to _think_ about doing that before a mature Jedi Knight starts to stick his metaphysical dick into his mind. Jedi mind trick, biatch.



which doesn't really mean shit.. fire everywhere and jedi is not getting close.. and then there is the case that plenty of people in the sw verse can no sell jedi mind tricks.. the hyperdrive vendor in the movies for instance.. 

no its unlikely that he is going to be doing anything with his dick expect getting roasted..


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## MAPSK (Mar 29, 2013)

Stermor said:


> which doesn't really mean shit.. fire everywhere and jedi is not getting close.. and then there is the case that plenty of people in the sw verse can no sell jedi mind tricks.. the hyperdrive vendor in the movies for instance..
> 
> no its unlikely that he is going to be doing anything with his dick expect getting roasted..





Aizen's KS is shit-tier compared to the mind control Jedis can do, and it seemed to work on Yama G just fine. Difference here is, a Jedi can use mind tricks to actually _control_ him, meaning once the match starts, Yama G is already his bitch. He either gets roasted by his own fire or stands still, mouth agape and tongue hanging out like a retard while the Jedi scalps him.


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## Stermor (Mar 29, 2013)

MAPSK said:


> Aizen's KS is shit-tier compared to the mind control Jedis can do, and it seemed to work on Yama G just fine. Difference here is, a Jedi can use mind tricks to actually _control_ him, meaning once the match starts, Yama G is already his bitch. He either gets roasted by his own fire or stands still, mouth agape and tongue hanging out like a retard while the Jedi scalps him.



there is a pretty big difference between top tier jedi and a no name jedi knight.. 

if as you say it is so easy to control people.. no jedi would ever have died.. but instead we actually see jedi's die in bunches against random people.. so either it means while jedi's can actually mind rape people and they are so incredible dumb the just don't.. or it is not as easy.. 

granted if jedi's are so retarded you have a point that removal of cis would allow them to win..


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## Hozukimaru (Mar 29, 2013)

So lazer-blaster shots are actually lightspeed in SW?
And every force user can pretty much react to it so i get it now lol


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## Es (Mar 29, 2013)

> Average Jedi Knight

>>>>Hero of Tython


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## Endless Mike (Mar 29, 2013)

The reason Jedi don't use offensive mind control/mindfuck very often is because it would lead them down the path to the dark side. In an OBD match they are bloodlusted so this CIS doesn't apply.


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## Stermor (Mar 29, 2013)

Endless Mike said:


> The reason Jedi don't use offensive mind control/mindfuck very often is because it would lead them down the path to the dark side. In an OBD match they are bloodlusted so this CIS doesn't apply.



even in cases where it would save their lives?? lol i guess jedi's are really retarded..


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## Tranquil Fury (Mar 29, 2013)

So


> if as you say it is so easy to control people.. no jedi would ever have died.. but instead we actually see jedi's die in bunches against random people.. so either it means while jedi's can actually mind rape people and they are so incredible dumb the just don't.. or it is not as easy..



If you're refering to Order 66, Jedi in the middle of a fight with their precog clouded(episode 2 has them shocked they did'nt see the Clone army's creation and it is confirmed a dark shroud blinded their precog to an extent), Clones lacking hostility and suddenly turning in the middle of a fight(you know when they're fighting an army) in planets isolated which was part of the Jedi trap Sidious created then yeah, that's different. Plus several did survive as Vader hunted those down, ANH has Kenobi stating Vader helped the Empire hunt down and kill Jedi, EU shows him hunting Jedi who survived.

If you're refering to the Jedi temple then Darth Vader did the bulk and a vastly larger difference in numbers against what few Jedi were present in the temple does'nt downplay them. A large amount of enemies will overwhelm people if the number is large is enough.

Jedi can control someone with average resistant/no feats of resisting telepathy if they go darkside but then they become Sith with training or dark Jedi in case of Jerec, Starkiller and the like. 

Dark side= for destruction, making others submissive and other arcane stuff

Light side= healing, counters, defense type abilities. It is not about making the force or others submissive to it like the dark side.

So just because a light sider won't cross a line, won't mean a dark sider would care. Vader mindraped the species Wotto from TPM was from, dark siders will gladly torture or even kill telepathically.

Dark siders do mindrape, Vader enters Luke's mind in ROTJ to learn he has a sister and if you want more blatant displays then yes Palpatine, Vader and other darksides have shown such powers in EU canon. Palpatine is described by Luke on board Deathstar II as having a hypnotic voice, Starkiller has described his voice as such as well i.e his words can mindrape via telepathy. Vader has mindraped force users and a creature resistant to Jedi suggestions.

For record force users can create telepathic barriers so mindraping one is harder than normal plus

Precog: Can see the future, illusions won't work

Empathy: Can sense the enemy via their hostile emotions or intent

Fighting on the mental plane: Force users fight on both a physical and mental plane trying to override each other's precog and powers, various force users describe this as an out of body experience akin to leaving their physical body on autopilot so that also renders Aizen's sense manipulation useless. 

Anyone Clone trooper vs Average Shinigami: Clone Trooper

Knight vs Yama: Jedi knight could go for the saber throw and end it quickly, otherwise if Yama goes bankai or spams his AOE type attacks it will be a problem.

Rest: Shinigami win padwans and younglings beating a captain is ridiculous, they lack proper training in most things and are not disciplined. 

Vader vs Yama: Vader turns Yama into a drooling mess via mindrape or kills him via telepathic assault. Vader is a Sith, those are trained in techniques to mindrape and are better than lightsiders in that area.

Characters like  Yoda, Mace, Dooku, Anakin/Vader, Palpatine, Ventress and the like are above Shinigami for record.


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## ironherc (Mar 29, 2013)

Tranquil Fury said:


> So
> 
> 
> If you're refering to Order 66, Jedi in the middle of a fight with their precog clouded(episode 2 has them shocked they did'nt see the Clone army's creation and it is confirmed a dark shroud blinded their precog to an extent), Clones lacking hostility and suddenly turning in the middle of a fight in planets isolated which was part of the Jedi trap Sidious created then yeah, that's different.
> ...




I couldn't have explain it better, so pretty much this


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## katanalauncher (Mar 29, 2013)

Restrict EU to make it fair.


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## Tranquil Fury (Mar 29, 2013)

> even in cases where it would save their lives?? lol i guess jedi's are really retarded



Dark Jedi say hello.


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## Tranquil Fury (Mar 29, 2013)

Seriously this "force users can't mindrape" argument still exists?Should I bring examples that prove otherwise?


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## Nevermind (Mar 29, 2013)

katanalauncher said:


> Restrict EU to make it fair.



There is no 'restricting the EU.' The EU is canon. It's like saying 'use Buu saga Goku but restrict the rest of the series.'



> Even the Force precog of shit tier Jedi and younglings can adapt to react to lightspeed attacks.



I'm pretty sure this isn't true. I believe only high tier Jedi like Mace Windu, Anakin, Luke, etc. have done this.

Still low-tier Jedi are still quite easily double digits hypersonic in their precog and reflex feats.


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## Endless Mike (Mar 29, 2013)

Stermor said:


> even in cases where it would save their lives?? lol i guess jedi's are really retarded..



A Jedi will always look for another option first. Sometimes there isn't one and they have no time to find one.

Making up justifications to use dark side powers will lead to using them more casually, and turning to the dark side.


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## Tranquil Fury (Mar 29, 2013)

Plus it's not like they can mindrape a whole army(speaking of average ones) and when fighting other force users. Jedi stop themselves though certain ones like the Council members of KOTOR telepathically screwed with Revan's memories if I recall.

It's mostly fear of the darkside as EM mentioned since it's like a drug.

Dark Jedi don't care for the well being of those they assault and Sith are much worse.


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## Hozukimaru (Mar 29, 2013)

On the first match isn't the shinigami barely superhuman and the trooper peak human?
Is it the weapon and armor that gives them the win?
How strong is their armor and what is it made of(i always view that as plastic so it doesn't appear strong to me but i guess it should be some kind of metal)?
How fast is their lazer and how much damage can it do?
(lol all dem questions xD)


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## Black Leg Sanji (Mar 29, 2013)

Just curious, how big was Palpatines Force Storm 

City-level?


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## Tranquil Fury (Mar 29, 2013)

They can destroy entire ships with barriers on and stated to be able to raze a planet in certain secondary canon if I recall. For a pic, you can see




> On the first match isn't the shinigami barely superhuman and the trooper peak human?



Clones of Jango Fett who could fight force users too so they are low superhuman too even if not as strong as Jango or Bobba and you made this an average Shinigami who does'nt have much besides a sword with no shikai or bankai. These are noob Shinigami who have yet to obtain a shikai.

Stormtrooper has a range advantage to boot.

low superhuman with gun vs low superhuman with a sword


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## Shiba D. Inu (Mar 29, 2013)

> Knight vs Yama: Jedi knight could go for the saber throw and end it quickly, otherwise if Yama goes bankai or spams his AOE type attacks *it will be a problem*.


really ?


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## Hozukimaru (Mar 29, 2013)

Well what's their durability?


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## Atem (Mar 29, 2013)

Black Leg Sanji said:


> Just curious, how big was Palpatines Force Storm
> 
> City-level?



It was much larger than that. 

Taken from Dark Empire #6


*Spoiler*: __ 
















You could probably scale it to that planetoid that was near it at the end there.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Mar 29, 2013)

probably island(+) sized ? maybe bigger

EDIT:


> You could probably scale it to that planetoid that was near it at the end there.


or much bigger



didn't it have hax though ? "rends the fabric of space" and all .. does it destroy spacetime ?


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## Atem (Mar 29, 2013)

Fluttershy said:


> or much bigger



Well, Darth Sidious lost control over it at that point because of Luke and Leia. 



> didn't it have hax though ? "rends the fabric of space" and all .. does it destroy spacetime ?



Dunno, maybe.


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## Tranquil Fury (Mar 29, 2013)

Fluttershy said:


> really ?



I don't remember an average Jedi knight being able to shield from such heat and AOE, offcourse someone could prove me wrong. Other alternative besides blade throw is if the knight lacks discipline and goes darkside then mindrapes.

Still precog means the Knight will be able to attack before Yama does more often.



> Well what's their durability?



Their armor is designed to survive the vaccuum of space, certain temperatures, biological warfare and stuff.

A man wearing stormtrooper armor in the Yound Jedi Knights series gets hit with a spear thrown hard enough to pick him up and slam him against the nearest wall, and he finds only a tiny nick in his chest plate. 

They have also survived slug throwers


Not very good against blaster bolts.

Either way, a Shinigami won't survive a shot from their weapon and since a shinigami is not familiar with the weapon or it's capabilties, trooper has an edge.

Storm trooper>average Shinigami overall due to better equipment


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## Tranquil Fury (Mar 29, 2013)

> probably island(+) sized ? *maybe bigger*



Yes the wormhole compared to the size of the planet in the background I posted, Gwyn also posted another similar pic. Damn thing dwarfs multiple ships as well and it's shown engulfing most of the fleet.

It's a wormhole, it can either transport the user across space(Palpy with Luke from across lightyears away) and in some cases time as with Darth Rivan but also has destructive capabilities

EDIT


> Well, Darth Sidious lost control over it at that point because of Luke and Leia



That was later when Luke, Leia and unborn Anakin Solo used the force harmony to severe him from it, when he's using it in the scan you mention, he's controlling it to obliterate the fleet.


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## Hozukimaru (Mar 29, 2013)

Tranquil Fury said:


> Their armor is designed to survive the vaccuum of space, certain temperatures, biological warfare and stuff.
> 
> A man wearing stormtrooper armor in the Yound Jedi Knights series gets hit with a spear thrown hard enough to pick him up and slam him against the nearest wall, and he finds only a tiny nick in his chest plate.
> 
> ...



I thought that it was plastic and weak metal. 
Also how fast are blaster bolts?


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## Archangel010 (Mar 29, 2013)

Hozukimaru said:


> I have no idea how strong low tier star wars is and naruto forums isn't that much into star wars match-ups so please don't blame me for doing this xD
> 
> 1. Average Clone trooper vs Average Shinigami
> (I have no idea what i'm doing, average shinigami doesn't have shunpo)


Yea, Clone Trooper kills the crap out of them. Much greater range and durability, not to mention ever clone trooper carries at least 1 grenade one them. Their armor is some of the best in the Galaxy, and their all cloned from Mandalorian DNA which is far better than most human.



> 2. Average Jedi Youngling vs Hisagi
> (Jedi Younglins are the ones that Anakin killed in the movie aren't they?)


Yes, and No. Yes they were younglings, but Younglings are also and Jedi in training before they are chosen by a master. Either Way, I'd say they don't have the training or experience needed to handle this sort of fight. 



> 3. Average Jedi Padawan vs Komamura
> (Komamura solos?)


Jedi Padawan. Though their still learning the ways of the force and lightsaber combat, they have feild experience and a good grasp on the basic force powers. Even a Padawan can have precog and enhanced strength and reflexes through the force.  



> 4. Average Jedi Knight vs Yama G
> 
> Bonus:
> Ok now if the Knight won put him against Bleach verse.
> ...



Anything past Knight level will take the win. Jedi Knights have great mastery over the Force, and have Mastered at least 1 of the Seven styles of Lightsaber combat (Usually Forms 1 and 4 or Form 6 depending on the Era) Given that Bleach hasn't shown much resistance to Mindfucking, and any Bloodlusted Jedi worth their salt can Mindfuck on a high level, Bleach doesn't stand a chance. This isn't even counting the other force powers of being able to heal oneself, Enhance their Strength and Reflexes, and Shatterpoint(The ability to find somethings weakness and with the force apply pressure and attack them at that weak point, shattering them at their weakest link)


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## Tranquil Fury (Mar 29, 2013)

Varies based on the setting, episode 2 final battle scene has them covering kilometers in seconds.

Can't find a good pic so for now this will have to do


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## Tranquil Fury (Mar 29, 2013)

Keep in mind the large structures in the background are 600-700 ms wide. 

So at their fastest speed setting, a blaster bolt can travel kms very quickly.


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## katanalauncher (Mar 29, 2013)

Nevermind said:


> There is no 'restricting the EU.' The EU is canon. It's like saying 'use Buu saga Goku but restrict the rest of the series.'
> 
> 
> 
> ...



They won't be canon in a years or so, but that's irrelevant.
Since most of the EU stuff happened after the movies your arguments is invalid, and you could just use feats from "canon" which are the movies.


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## Nevermind (Mar 29, 2013)

Uh, no. Plenty of EU material happened before and during the movies that outline the history of the Jedi and their feats.

....Why am I sensing shades of 'EU is not canon' here?


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## Tranquil Fury (Mar 29, 2013)

EU covers several 1,000s of years and all of them outside N-canon are canon. Implying that EU like ROTS novel, Darth Plaguies novel and TCW are'nt G canon level EU. Because those had Lucas superivising directly or in directly through his right hand man.

EU is canon, you don't get to handwave it and limit Jedi with decades of experience to one or two minutes screen time.

The EU has existed for 30+ years.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Mar 29, 2013)

inb4Disneyruinsitall


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## Tranquil Fury (Mar 29, 2013)

Disney has Marvel write SW comics again instead of Darkhorse


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## Raidou Kuzunoha (Mar 29, 2013)

I guess Clone Wars must not be canon now.

What is it with Star Wars and the fucking butthurt when it comes to EU? Did a Stormtrooper come into their homes one day and started chin checking their families and shit?


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## Hozukimaru (Mar 29, 2013)

I've remember i've read a SW comic once (Zayne Carrick's story) .
I generaly don't read comics but it wasn't half bad.


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## Tranquil Fury (Mar 29, 2013)

There's good stuff, meh stuff and bad stuff since it's written by multiple writers, same problem with Marvel/DC and other such companies but still consistent overall. Zayne Carrick was a cool character.

As it stands G canon is the movies,ROTS novel(edited by Lucas line by line as per the writer), Clone Wars(stated by Lucas himself as being on par with the movies) and Plaguies novel(the author confirms it as "highest level of canon"). The others are still canon themselves outside retcons where higher canon overrides lower canon in certain details.


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## Raidou Kuzunoha (Mar 29, 2013)

Like anything it varies. You find good stories like Shatterpoints and Darth Plagueis. And then I believe it was Legacy of the Jedi that was shit.


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## Ramius (Mar 29, 2013)

Christ, I remember when StarWars was about ~hypersonic at best. Or well - at least the characters had massive reaction speed due to pre-cog with the lightsaber, but the combat speed was pretty low. If you landed something like a nuke, there's no way a Jed would have covered enough distance to run away from that. Kotor 2 was still best part of the series and a good deconstruction. What have the comics done...Either way - doesn't change the fact the mindrape is strong with StarWars verse.

Judging by what I'm reading, it's just massive rape. I still sort of doubt that your average Clone Trooper would win against your average Shinigami.


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## Hozukimaru (Mar 29, 2013)

Fail math SS theory:
SS has 13 divisions, each division has 20 officers so 13x20= 260.
Hanataro (that weak dude) is 7th seat so he is (7x13=91) the 91th strongest shinigami in SS.
Even if he was the weakest out of all the 260 officers he is still 260th out of 3000. Imagine how weak the average shinigami must be then.


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## Crimson Dragoon (Mar 29, 2013)

gonna relay some words of wisdom here 


			
				Fang said:
			
		

> Let's see, even a shit tier Jedi apprentice who can barely use her Force powers properly named Etain was able to react and telekentically deflect hypersonic shards from a blast relatively easily during the Clone Wars. Luke casually moving so fast that he was making dozens of afterimages appear as individual lightsabers being wielded by multiple Jedi while physically disappearing from sight and Jacen Solo aka a future Darth Caedus commenting he wasn't even trying while cutting down a bunch of Vong warriors.
> 
> Said Vong warriors are outside of the Force, and don't have any psychic powers of their own but can easily deflect and block blaster bolts because of their superhuman reaction time. There's also a younger Luke who was capable of cutting down a bunch of Noghri assassins (smaller then normal huamns in stature but far faster) in literally the time it takes a human heart to beat once. What else? Vader using the Force to give himself a burst of super speed to decapitate two Jedi Knights before they could physically rise from their knees. Also superhuman bursts are of speed known as Force Speed is a well known and basic Force ability for any Jedi, Dark Jedi, or Sith. And its a very simple power.


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## Archangel010 (Mar 29, 2013)

Hozukimaru said:


> Fail math SS theory:
> SS has 13 divisions, each division has 20 officers so 13x20= 260.
> Hanataro (that weak dude) is 7th seat so he is (7x13=91) the 91th strongest shinigami in SS.
> Even if he was the weakest out of all the 260 officers he is still 260th out of 3000. Imagine how weak the average shinigami must be then.



I Really hope you're kidding on your math here... I mean He is in a squad that are the field medics, so I really doubt anyone other than the Captain and Lt. are worth a damn when it comes to fighting and even then, they are far from the strongest.

My point still stands that no Shinigami has shown resistance to Mindfuckery on the scale that a Jedi can do.


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## Hozukimaru (Mar 29, 2013)

Archangel010 said:


> I Really hope you're kidding on your math here... I mean He is in a squad that are the field medics, so I really doubt anyone other than the Captain and Lt. are worth a damn when it comes to fighting and even then,



The only point i could make out of what i said earlier is that because Hanataro is an officer and since the Zanpakuto of low-ranking Shinigami are called Asauchi and don't have a shikai state, but the Zanpakuto of Shinigami of rank (aka Hanataro) have shikai we can say for sure that he is actually within the top 300 fighters of SS. No fodder can beat him (more fodder than him i mean xD) since he has a shikai. 
In a filler episode it was revealed that:
His shikai can actually heal the injuries of a person by absorving them and then firing the energy the injuries had as an energy wave back at the enemy which was shown to injure a Menos Grande. (Well it's not like Kubo is going to make his shikai something completely different from what was shown in the anime even though it's not yet cannon)



Archangel010 said:


> they are far from the strongest



Actually if it was for the divisions to fight between themselves the 4th division would be probably the second or third strongest from what has been shown up to now(due to the captain mainly though).



Archangel010 said:


> My point still stands that no Shinigami has shown resistance to Mindfuckery on the scale that a Jedi can do.


Yep.


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## Archangel010 (Mar 29, 2013)

Hozukimaru said:


> The only point i could make out of what i said earlier is that because Hanataro is an officer and since the Zanpakuto of low-ranking Shinigami are called Asauchi and don't have a shikai state, but the Zanpakuto of Shinigami of rank (aka Hanataro) have shikai we can say for sure that he is actually within the top 300 fighters of SS. No fodder can beat him (more fodder than him i mean xD) since he has a shikai.
> In a filler episode it was revealed that:
> His shikai can actually heal the injuries of a person by absorving them and then firing the energy the injuries had as an energy wave back at the enemy which was shown to injure a Menos Grande. (Well it's not like Kubo is going to make his shikai something completely different from what was shown in the anime even though it's not yet cannon)


 Filler isn't cannon, so we can't say what it may or may not have done.  All I was saying is that Not all officers are Created equal, unless you want to put all the Lt.'s up against each other and say that they're all going to be even. He might be the 7th strongest in squad 4 but that by no means entitles him to be a competent fighter, when compared to the Shinigami that are worth a damn I.E.: Any other officers.



> Actually if it was for the divisions to fight between themselves the 4th division would be probably the second or third strongest from what has been shown up to now(due to the captain mainly though).


So then, exactly what I said, that pretty much everyone in Squad 4 is useless when it come to fighting, baring the Lt. and the Captain.



> Yep.


Glad we agree on the matter at hand, Star Wars Mindfuck FTW!


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## Hozukimaru (Mar 29, 2013)

Archangel010 said:


> Filler isn't cannon, so we can't say what it may or may not have done.  All I was saying is that Not all officers are Created equal, unless you want to put all the Lt.'s up against each other and say that they're all going to be even. He might be the 7th strongest in squad 4 but that by no means entitles him to be a competent fighter, when compared to the Shinigami that are worth a damn I.E.: Any other officers.


Filler isn't cannon but some unimportant stuff (for example Hanataro's Shikai or Chojiro's lightning powers) are first revealed in filler arcs and later in canon. I would bet 5 euros that if Kubo ever shows Hanataro's shikai that will be it. All we can say for Hanataro is that "he is actually within the top 300 fighters of SS" since there are only 300 officers in SS. Which leads as back to what i wanted to point out which is how "strong" Hanataro compared to an average shinigami.



Archangel010 said:


> So then, exactly what I said, that pretty much everyone in Squad 4 is useless when it come to fighting, baring the Lt. and the Captain.



Yeh and pretty much the only thing that the Lt. has done is getting one-shoted by barehanded Ichigo.


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## Archangel010 (Mar 29, 2013)

Hozukimaru said:


> Filler isn't cannon but some unimportant stuff (for example Hanataro's Shikai or Chojiro's lightning powers) are first revealed in filler arcs and later in canon. I would bet 5 euros that if Kubo ever shows Hanataro's shikai that will be it. All we can say for Hanataro is that "he is actually within the top 300 fighters of SS" since there are only 300 officers in SS. Which leads as back to what i wanted to point out which is how "strong" Hanataro compared to an average shinigami.


I refuse to say what it will or will not be, since, filler is non Cannon, I could say it's going to be the most badass thing out there, but it would be baseless and wrong until stated in Cannon. So until it is revealed we can't say jack shit about it. But yes, I see your point as to Hanataro being in the top 300 fighters, but beyond that we cannot say as we don't know all 300 officers in the SS.


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## Hozukimaru (Mar 29, 2013)

Archangel010 said:


> I refuse to say what it will or will not be, since, filler is non Cannon, I could say it's going to be the most badass thing out there, but it would be baseless and wrong until stated in Cannon. So until it is revealed we can't say jack shit about it. But yes, I see your point as to Hanataro being in the top 300 fighters, but beyond that we cannot say as we don't know all 300 officers in the SS.



Yeh that was unofficial talk there about what his Shikai is and i didn't really use it to debate anything. It was just a side note to him having shikai.


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## Archangel010 (Mar 29, 2013)

Hozukimaru said:


> Yeh that was unofficial talk there about what his Shikai is and i didn't really use it to debate anything. It was just a side note to him having shikai.


Indeed, but back to the topic at hand, unless there is a counter for Mindfucking, Star Wars is taking most of these fights.


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## Tom Servo (Mar 29, 2013)

I don't think Kubo can troll his series out of this much rape.


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## Caxe7 (Mar 29, 2013)

Archangel010 said:


> Indeed, but back to the topic at hand, unless there is a counter for Mindfucking, Star Wars is taking most of these fights.



They're SHINIGAMI they dont have BRAINS BRO THEY ARE SPIRITS 


*Spoiler*: __ 



jk


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## Archangel010 (Mar 30, 2013)

Caxe7 said:


> They're SHINIGAMI they dont have BRAINS BRO THEY ARE SPIRITS
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...



 And FTL and Intangible, how could I be so foolish as to doubt the awesome Shinigami??


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## Omnirix (Mar 30, 2013)

I thought Estrecca debunked the whole notion of scaling every force users especially Ahsoka as lightspeed here in this 

As he pointed out, Jedi comes in a wild divergent of skill levels. Even a master of defense such as Obi-Wan have trouble holding back Grievous' twenty strikes per second compared to Luke who can react within a nanosecond. It is kinda relative here.


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## Darth (Mar 30, 2013)

pretty sure bleach wins the first 3 scenarios. 

jedi knight (depending on which era) probably stomps tho.


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## Palpatine (Mar 30, 2013)

The 'average jedi knight' is very difficult to classify, as they vary greatly.

Also, I'm pretty sure Clone Wars is canon, if we're talking about the cartoons.


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## Hozukimaru (Mar 30, 2013)

Darth said:


> pretty sure bleach wins the first 3 scenarios.
> 
> jedi knight (depending on which era) probably stomps tho.



I'll probably just say that it's Clone Wars era, should be able to win easily i think.
Weren't earlier era Jedi weaker on average?


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## ThanatoSeraph (Mar 30, 2013)

Just pointing out that the 20 strikes per second were delivered with "varying speed and intensity" IIRC.

So it's not quite as simple as that number being enough to overwhelm Obi-Wan.

I don't see anyone saying that random force sensitives are light speed in their movement here either.


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## Archangel010 (Mar 30, 2013)

Hozukimaru said:


> I'll probably just say that it's Clone Wars era, should be able to win easily i think.
> Weren't earlier era Jedi weaker on average?



the opposite is true Really. Older Jedi had more threats to fight and had real Sith to Contend with, and a more hardcore training. In times of peace the Jedi became Lax and weak, at least comparatively


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## Hozukimaru (Mar 30, 2013)

Archangel010 said:


> the opposite is true Really. Older Jedi had more threats to fight and had real Sith to Contend with, and a more hardcore training. In times of peace the Jedi became Lax and weak, at least comparatively



hmm i'm pretty sure i've heard that older generation force users couldn't mind rape without mystic items and stuff


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## Archangel010 (Mar 30, 2013)

Hozukimaru said:


> hmm i'm pretty sure i've heard that older generation force users couldn't mind rape without mystic items and stuff



Hardly, look at the Sith Race, what the Dark Side Sith are based one, their force powers are Incredible, and Anything from KoTOR Should tell you the power of Jedi Thousands of years before the Movies.


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## Shoddragon (Mar 30, 2013)

Stermor said:


> even in cases where it would save their lives?? lol i guess jedi's are really retarded..



no, jedi often follow a very strict moral code involving a lot of discipline. that strict code exists so that they do not fall to the dark side. in star wars, it is easier to fall to the dark side than you think.

masters teach their students these types of codes so that they learn to use their powers responsibly. if you've ever seen sith, it is more the opposite. Sith generally do whatever it takes to get the job done, which is why the Rule of Two exists.  That way the apprentice will eventually rise up and strike down the master, ensuring that the strongest leader is at the head of the sith ( even if it is something like what Malak did, which is order his ships to fire directly on his master Revan).

Jedi are MORE than capable of applying mind rape like their sith equals, they just refuse to because from the point of view of jedi teachings, jedi code and morals, it would be wrong. Their goal is generally to be protectors and the safeguards of people, not murderous creatures who minfuck everything they can't reason with XD.


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## Shoddragon (Mar 30, 2013)

Hozukimaru said:


> hmm i'm pretty sure i've heard that older generation force users couldn't mind rape without mystic items and stuff



Revan was MORE than capable of employing mind rape and he is one of the most ancient sith ( not as old as naga sadow or ajunta paul but you get the idea). In fact, ancient sith had sith sorceries that could do devastating things, even to other sith.


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## Stermor (Mar 30, 2013)

Shoddragon said:


> no, jedi often follow a very strict moral code involving a lot of discipline. that strict code exists so that they do not fall to the dark side. in star wars, it is easier to fall to the dark side than you think.
> 
> masters teach their students these types of codes so that they learn to use their powers responsibly. if you've ever seen sith, it is more the opposite. Sith generally do whatever it takes to get the job done, which is why the Rule of Two exists.  That way the apprentice will eventually rise up and strike down the master, ensuring that the strongest leader is at the head of the sith ( even if it is something like what Malak did, which is order his ships to fire directly on his master Revan).
> 
> Jedi are MORE than capable of applying mind rape like their sith equals, they just refuse to because from the point of view of jedi teachings, jedi code and morals, it would be wrong. Their goal is generally to be protectors and the safeguards of people, not murderous creatures who minfuck everything they can't reason with XD.



in this case we have revan a sith who would do everything in his power to fight back right.. so why aren't the people firing on his ship comatose in a split second?? 

if revan wanted he has the mind rape, the inclination, the mental speed.. so i'm not sure why in this case he wouldn't just mind rape them to stop.. unless revan went down with the first volley?? but then shouldn't the force have warned him.. 

and then he would only have malak to content with.. 

also i understand jedi's have a moral code.. but dead jedi's don't.. and well between the chance of dieing in combat.. or possible crossing a line(really don't see much difference between killing somebody with a lightsaber or mind rape) and living to repent/take the chance with the dark side.. 

at some point it becomes either they can't because of retardation or because not all jedi's are capable of it..


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## Archangel010 (Mar 30, 2013)

Stermor said:


> in this case we have revan a sith who would do everything in his power to fight back right.. so why aren't the people firing on his ship comatose in a split second??
> 
> if revan wanted he has the mind rape, the inclination, the mental speed.. so i'm not sure why in this case he wouldn't just mind rape them to stop.. unless revan went down with the first volley?? but then shouldn't the force have warned him..
> 
> ...



And this is why You couldn't be a Jedi. Most Jedi don't need the Dark Side to win, since it's only a short cut to power and not any stronger than the other side of the Force, just a different mind set and application of The Force. Why do you Think you have so Many great Jedi Duelist out there? Look Plo Koon, Never lost a fight in his life and never fell to the Dark Side, Do not mistake a  Moral Code and Ethics as a Weakness.


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## Tranquil Fury (Mar 31, 2013)

> at some point it becomes either they can't because of retardation or because not all jedi's are capable of it..



You are correct all Jedi can't, fortunately from knight level to master level they have experience in the force to either create stronger telepathic barriers and telepathically assault people, they don't because going to the dark side is far worse than death for them.

Dark Jedi do mindrape however due to not sharing the same morals.


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## Shoddragon (Apr 1, 2013)

Stermor said:


> in this case we have revan a sith who would do everything in his power to fight back right.. so why aren't the people firing on his ship comatose in a split second??
> 
> if revan wanted he has the mind rape, the inclination, the mental speed.. so i'm not sure why in this case he wouldn't just mind rape them to stop.. unless revan went down with the first volley?? but then shouldn't the force have warned him..
> 
> ...



1. Revan was engaged in a battle against multiple Jedi at the time which included Bastila. jedi can resist force powers obviously so it would take concentration.


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## familyparka (Apr 2, 2013)

Quality thread


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## Hozukimaru (Apr 2, 2013)

familyparka said:


> Quality thread



SW wins half of the scenarios and Bleach the other half, i tried my best to make this even you know >.>


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## Huey Freeman (Apr 2, 2013)

Can't Jedi just warp a saber into their opponent with their superior reactions?


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## Shoddragon (Apr 3, 2013)

Danger Doom said:


> Can't Jedi just warp a saber into their opponent with their superior reactions?



if you mean warp like space folding and shit, that is a very high-top tier type of force move that only people like Luke can use IIRC.


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