# Mihawk Vs Jozu



## LyricalMessiah (Feb 6, 2015)

Fighters; Mihawk and Jozu

Distance; 30 meters

Restriction; none

Location; thriller bark


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## Bernkastel (Feb 6, 2015)

Mihawk high diff.

Jozu is a pretty hard counter to him but in the end Mihawk has superior stats and will outlast him.

Also Jozu will have to be in fullbody diamond form all the time to avoid getting slashed which will propably consume lots of stamina.


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## barreltheif (Feb 6, 2015)

Mihawk, mid diff, possibly low-mid.


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## Orca (Feb 6, 2015)

Mihawk high diff.


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## Ghost (Feb 6, 2015)

Mihawk low end high diff.


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## Freechoice (Feb 6, 2015)

Idk brah diamond can't be cut yo

Mihawk would be forced to CQC him

Jozu's specialty

Mihawk high as fuck diff

Bad matchup for the swordsman


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## Yuki (Feb 6, 2015)

barreltheif said:


> Mihawk, mid diff, possibly low-mid.



What...

Nice try low diffing a fellow Top Tier that cannot be cut with any blade. >_>

I very much doubt that Mihawk is a top tier without his sword. 

Jozu could take this.

A swordsman without a sword is worse than a DF user without their DF.

What does Mihawk have without his ability to cut down his opponents? Nothing at all.


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## barreltheif (Feb 6, 2015)

Juvia. said:


> What...
> I very much doubt that Mihawk is a top tier without his sword.
> Jozu could take this.
> A swordsman without a sword is worse than a DF user without their DF.
> What does Mihawk have without his ability to cut down his opponents? Nothing at all.




Maybe you misread the OP? Mihawk has his sword in this fight, and Jozu has his DF. Mihawk will just cut down Jozu, probably with mid difficulty, like I said. I really have no idea what you're talking about.


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## Coruscation (Feb 6, 2015)

Mihawk wins with high difficulty.

I'd estimate that most characters of Mihawk's prowess would beat Jozu with mid diff, but this is a bad match-up due to the hardness of diamond. If it were Shanks he could probably compensate for the struggle of cutting Jozu with his out of this world Haki but Mihawk will have more difficulty. Nonetheless I don't think Mihawk would be unable to do the job. Although cutting diamond is impressive I don't really want to place it above beating Mihawk as far as benchmarks are concerned. That seems a bit much.


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## Yuki (Feb 6, 2015)

barreltheif said:


> Maybe you misread the OP? Mihawk has his sword in this fight, and Jozu has his DF. Mihawk will just cut down Jozu, probably with mid difficulty, like I said. I really have no idea what you're talking about.



Maybe you missed the part where diamond cannot be cut? It's other wise impenetrable via normal piercing or slashing damage. 

Unless Mihawk shows a feat in which he can cut diamond, then he cannot do it.

Unless you give Mihawk Laws DF that cuts things in a different way then he is not cutting or piercing Jozu. EVER! 

Without those two factors... you know what a sword is for? Mihawk may as well be fighting without a sword.

The only way to break diamond is to crush it with more force than it took to create it. Something a sword cannot do since it slides on touch (It slides because it is unable to get between the diamonds close molecule structure. Which is pretty much what cutting is and blades, at least sharp ones do not have a flat surface.).

As for haki, Jozu's should match him in the type that matters.

If anyone in this manga is cutting Diamond, it will be Zoro EoS if the theory's about Shiryu getting Jozu's fruit turn out to be true and after he defeats Mihawk because Mihawk cannot cut him, Zoro will come along and fight an uphill battle until he awakens some kind of new power that has never been seen before that allows him to one shot Shiryu by cutting him and his diamond body in half.

Then Zoro will be known as the unstoppable demon swordsman because his sword strikes will be unstoppable as everything they touch cuts like a sword going through water because that's how easy everything would be to cut when you're able to cut diamond. Literally every swordsman that has their sword connect with Zoro's would get their swords sliced in half instantly as Zoro's sword continues to cut them in half with a single swing. He would be able to defeat every swordsman left in the OP world all of them vs him at once as not one could stop his swords swing.


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## Canute87 (Feb 6, 2015)

High difficulty.

Josu is a tough summa bitch.


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## Deleted member 45015 (Feb 6, 2015)

Outside of _conjecture_, does Mihawk have anything we _know _he can hurt Jozu with?

There's your answer on who wins.


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## Bohemian Knight (Feb 6, 2015)

Mihawk wins very high diff if it turns out he can cut diamond. He obviously can't with an air slash, maybe he can directly with his blade.

If he not, he gets tossed


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## Roronoa-zoro (Feb 6, 2015)

Mihawk wins with High difficulty. I think Jozu would be able to tank a lot of generic slashes, but once Mihawk starts using named techniques I don't think  he will last long. 

As for Shanks, outside of conjecture, does Shanks have anything we know he can hurt Jozu with?

There's your answer on who wins.

But still, I think Shanks wins high diff if it turns out he can cut diamond. Maybe if he can with an air slash or directly with his blade.

If he not, he gets tossed


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## Luke (Feb 6, 2015)

Mihawk wins with medium difficulty.


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## Deleted member 45015 (Feb 6, 2015)

Roronoa-zoro said:


> Mihawk wins with High difficulty. I think Jozu would be able to tank a lot of generic slashes, but once Mihawk starts using named techniques I don't think  he will last long.
> 
> As for Shanks, outside of conjecture, does Shanks have anything we know he can hurt Jozu with?
> 
> ...



Dude, you want to make back-handed insults that's fine, that's absolutely fine, but at least have the spine to quote my post and admit it's directed at me next time. Talk and legitimately refute my point like a man or don't refute it, shut up and be a little bitch. 

I'll be here waiting for you to show me something outside of conjecture and theory, that says Mihawk takes this. I pick a winner based on what we know not what we _think _we know based on our own _opinion_.


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## Amol (Feb 6, 2015)

Coruscation said:


> *Mihawk wins with high difficulty.*
> 
> I'd estimate that most characters of Mihawk's prowess would beat Jozu with mid diff, but this is a bad match-up due to the hardness of diamond. If it were Shanks he could probably compensate for the struggle of cutting Jozu with his out of this world Haki but Mihawk will have more difficulty. Nonetheless I don't think Mihawk would be unable to do the job. Although cutting diamond is impressive I don't really want to place it above beating Mihawk as far as benchmarks are concerned. That seems a bit much.


This.
Diamond Man vs Swordsman .
Jozu has very good counter for Swordsman but in the end Mihawk is just stronger than him though Jozu will make him work hard for victory.
Match ups matter here.


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## Yuki (Feb 6, 2015)

Amol said:


> This.
> Diamond Man vs Swordsman .
> Jozu has very good counter for Swordsman but in the end Mihawk is just stronger than him though Jozu will make him work hard for victory.
> Match ups matter here.



Though obviously not enough. If a swordsman is able to win someone not even that much weaker without being able to cut that someone, then how much can they really matter? 

The only way to cut a diamond is with a diamond and it takes time. Other than that it's not possible. Does Mihawk have a diamond blade on him? Not like it would matter because his sword would shatter before it scratched Jozu because the blunt force from Jozu's skin would shatter it before it cut into it.


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## Bernkastel (Feb 6, 2015)

Jozu will have to be on fullbody diamond the whole fight in order to survive the slashes and that's obviously impossible since at some point Jozu will reach his stamina limit.
Mihawk will have to wear him down slowly.Sooner or later he will outlast him.


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## Furinji Saiga (Feb 6, 2015)

Mihawk with medium difficulty


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## Yuki (Feb 6, 2015)

Bernkastel said:


> Jozu will have to be on fullbody diamond the whole fight in order to survive the slashes and that's obviously impossible since at some point Jozu will reach his stamina limit.
> Mihawk will have to wear him down slowly.Sooner or later he will outlast him.



Wait, staying in diamond mode reduces stamina? Proof?


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## Coruscation (Feb 6, 2015)

Juvia said:
			
		

> The only way to cut a diamond is with a diamond and it takes time. Other than that it's not possible.



This isn't real life. Who are you to say what the willpower induced pseudo-magic known as Haki can and can not do? It's an ability that can make flesh harder than steel. A _lot_ harder. Who's to say what it could do to the greatest sword in the world, wielded by the greatest swordsman in the world?


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## Yuki (Feb 6, 2015)

Coruscation said:


> This isn't real life. *Who are you to say what the willpower induced pseudo-magic known as Haki can and can not do?* It's an ability that can make flesh harder than steel. A _lot_ harder. Who's to say what it could do to the greatest sword in the world, wielded by the greatest swordsman in the world?



Saying someone can cut diamond without any kind of feats from ANYONE doing so in the entire manga, is not in the spirit of battledome debates. We debate the battle and outcome in a battle with facts/feats. NOT speculation. A little bit of hype is ok, but Mihawk does not even have diamond cutting hype. It's like saying Garp can smash Sea Stone cuffs with a punch, despite metals resistance to brunt force and sea stone being OPs version of adamantium.

What you just said in the bold is absurd.

Push any kind of sword/blade against your skin, then press just a simple broken piece of glass against your skin, and see which cuts into you first. Yea, the difference in sharpness is unreal. Swords aka metal CANNOT cut diamond, it's far too thick. The thinner it is, the less durable it is, the thicker it is, the more impossible it is to cut.

Either way, it will either break on his skin from being to brittle or not cut for being to thick. That's the problem with cutting diamond.

As for Haki, Jozu has it too.


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## Coruscation (Feb 6, 2015)

This topic can not be debated on "feats". If we were to use strictly feats the match is simply inconclusive and there can't be an answer until we see more. Even you aren't using feats because the way feats work aren't just that someone needs to show something before you conclude they can do it, it's also that they have to be pushed to or close to their limits before you can actually make a quantitative comparison using feats and decide that they are _not_ able to do something. Mihawk failed to cut Jozu with his ranged slash, but that was a one-handed, long range technique. We know from Zoro that a swordsman may only be able to perform his greatest cutting techniques with direct contact, and when wielding his sword with both hands Mihawk would logically be able to put more power into a swing. That feat was not Mihawk's limit or very close to it, and as such you can not conclude he can not cut diamond due to it.

Absurd? How? Please explain yourself. This is a power that can make wooden arrows explode through rocks when used by a weakling, and you consider it absurd that it might make the strongest sword in the world able to cut diamond when wielded by the strongest swordsman in the world?


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## Yuki (Feb 6, 2015)

Coruscation said:


> Absurd? How? Please explain yourself. This is a power that can make wooden arrows explode through rocks when used by a weakling, and you consider it absurd that it might make the strongest sword in the world able to cut diamond when wielded by the strongest swordsman in the world?





Juvia. said:


> It's like saying Garp can smash Sea Stone cuffs with a punch, despite metals resistance to brunt force and sea stone being OPs version of adamantium.



Answered already. 

As for the rest of your comment. I answer that in my edit as well.

Your mistake is you think cutting diamond and cutting steel are achieved the same way. But this is not the case.

And unless Oda makes this same mistake as well, it won't happen.


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## Coruscation (Feb 6, 2015)

That's not an explanation at all. You're trying to refer to real life principles when what we're discussing is a force-esque willpower induced semi-magical ability in a fantasy fictional universe. A wooden arrow fired from a bow can't make a stone explode in real life, but with Haki in One Piece it can. Nothing more needs to be said on the matter. What is and isn't possible in real life doesn't dictate what can and can't be done with Haki. Only Oda does, and it isn't going to be a "mistake" if he shows us Mihawk can cut diamond.

I certainly think it's possible that Garp could smash seastone, too. Seastone is _hard_, not indestructium. There's no reason some of the strongest characters in the entire verse using their strongest moves couldn't destroy it just because our current main characters can't.


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## Yuki (Feb 6, 2015)

Coruscation said:


> That's not an explanation at all. You're trying to refer to real life principles when what we're discussing is a force-esque willpower induced semi-magical ability in a fantasy fictional universe. A wooden arrow fired from a bow can't make a stone explode in real life, but with Haki in One Piece it can. Nothing more needs to be said on the matter. What is and isn't possible in real life doesn't dictate what can and can't be done with Haki. Only Oda does, and it isn't going to be a "mistake" if he shows us Mihawk can cut diamond.
> 
> I certainly think it's possible that Garp could smash seastone, too. Seastone is _hard_, not indestructium. There's no reason some of the strongest characters in the entire verse using their strongest moves couldn't destroy it just because our current main characters can't.



Well then i guess this is going no where. >_>

I prefer waiting until feats are shown of such things before i bring them into a thread and add to my assumption. You and others obviously do not.


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## Amol (Feb 6, 2015)

With Haki you can bypass DF. So Mihawk can bypass Jozu's Diamond Defense.
Obviously it won't be an easy task considering Jozu himself possess great amount of haki to counter Mihawk's haki.
It will then become game of stamina, endurance and who makes mistake first.
Considering Mihawk should have better stats than Jozu , he will outlast him.
He himself would get quite beaten in process.
Hence high diff victory for him .


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## Yuki (Feb 6, 2015)

Amol said:


> With Haki you can bypass DF. So Mihawk can bypass Jozu's Diamond Defense.



That i could accept. Since it does also bypass Luffy's rubber defense. But i think Jozu's would cancel it out.


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## HisMajestyMihawk (Feb 6, 2015)

Mihawk low diff

Jozu blocked the first hit from Mihawk which wasn't intended to cut diamond. The second hit would have finished him.

Mr 1 also blocked Mihawk's first hit. The second hit raped him instantly.


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## Vengeance (Feb 6, 2015)

Mihawk should win with high difficulty (lower end) at the utmost imo.


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## Raiden34 (Feb 6, 2015)

Jozu mid difficulty,

 c'mon now this is a serious bad matchup, and no one is going to cut a diamond man, even with Haki which isn't cancel DF powers, maybe if Teach holds him with kurouzu then Shiryuu can cut Diamond Jozu.


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## Bohemian Knight (Feb 6, 2015)

Mihawk does not mid diff. No damn way


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## ShadowReaper (Feb 6, 2015)

Mihawk wins with mid, maybe high level of difficulty, depending on his intent for the battle.


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## Dunno (Feb 6, 2015)

Diamond can't be cut. Jozu low diffs. Were it not for the bad matchup, Mihawk could probably give him high diff. No-one can beat Jozu without assistance though, the guy is really stronk!


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## trance (Feb 7, 2015)

Mihawk mid diffs.


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## Dr. White (Feb 7, 2015)

Ima give this to Mihawk somewhere between mid and High diff. Vista's Haki was presumably good enough to keep his swords from getting getting shredded, and Jozu tossed off Mihawk's WSM testing slash with no visibile injuries. Given Jozu's Haki was good enough to hurt an admiral, I'm inclined to think he holds out a while here before being cut down.


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## LyricalMessiah (Feb 7, 2015)

In my opinion, I'd give this to Mihawk with High difficulty for the reason that it'd be very difficult for him to defeat a man who can transform every part of his body into diamonds. Matchups are relevant for assessing a match and Jozu is a bad matchup for Mihawk. Unless Mihawk shows any feats of being capable of cutting diamonds effortlessly, then he's only winning this with High difficulty. Not to mention that his opponent has the second best strength feat in the One piece world only behind Garp, if not, the best strength feat shown to date of stopping a slash from the world's strongest swordsman as well as tossing a gigantic iceberg hundred of meters away in the opposite direction at the opposition's location. He's also every proficient with Haki as evidenced by when his Haki made someone of Aokiji's calibre bleed. He fought against an Admiral on equal grounds for a certain period of time and was never 'one-shotted' when he was not distracted.


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## Dunno (Feb 7, 2015)

Fucking Mihawk wankers... Jozu is made of DIAMOND. You know DIAMOND can't be cut right? Jozu is pretty much invincible. What happened with Aokiji was a plothole.


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## rext1 (Feb 7, 2015)

Mihawk mid-diffs.

The Hawk merely turns Yoru onto its flatside and bats Jozu into oblivion with crushing blunt force!


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## 2Broken (Feb 7, 2015)

Based off Marineford I have formed the opinion that Jozu cannot move whatever part of his body that is covered in diamond. If that is true Mihawk's victory over him is solid imo.

However since that has not been proven to be true Jozu might be able to cover himself completely and still fight unhindered.  Then the question becomes can Mihawk cut him.The answer to that is unknown at this point, but the only time they interacted Jozu no sold his slash. 

Mihawk might be able to cut him by hearing the diamonds "breathing" the same way Zoro first learned to cut metal. We don't however know if he can, so I wont extend him the ability.

At best it is possible that Jozu gets to fight a Mihawk completely armored with Mihawk being unable to cut through his armor. This is definitely be a good match setup for Jozu, but Mihawk has another tool to help him that everyone always forgets about and that is his eyes.

With the perception Mihawk's eyes have I sincerely don't see Jozu ever actually hitting him with a tackle or anything he could throw. This version of the match could be extremely long, but I would still go with Mihawk.

The reason why I would go with Mihawk is simply that he will have more control in a battle of attrition. As time goes I believe Jozu will tire and make a "mistake" before Mihawk will. Both can surely fight for days, but it is Mihawk that has been shown to be an extremely precise fighter and it Jozu who will have to spend more energy fighting a range battle.


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## HisMajestyMihawk (Feb 7, 2015)

Dunno said:


> Fucking Mihawk wankers... Jozu is made of DIAMOND. You know DIAMOND can't be cut right? Jozu is pretty much invincible. What happened with Aokiji was a plothole.



Diamonds are meant to be cut bro


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## Yuki (Feb 7, 2015)

HisMajestyMihawk said:


> Diamonds are meant to be cut bro



>_> No they are not. Only diamond has ever cut diamond.

Wait... why am i replying to you... I've just wasted so much of my time...


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## HisMajestyMihawk (Feb 7, 2015)

diamonds dont cut diamonds

Jews cut diamonds


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## Raiden34 (Feb 7, 2015)

Dunno said:


> No-one can beat Jozu without assistance though, the guy is really stronk!



Wha? Diamond is very fragile, and it can be broken by mere force impact by Haki attacks, but it can't be cut, these are different things, Luffy can't be broken by Haki impact because he is still rubber man and Haki doesn not cancel DF powers, but Haki attacks are still hurts Luffy like he take a shock wave, same with Jozu, it can't be cut even with Haki, but it can be hurt by Haki impact attacks, he probably takes these attacks like a shock wave and internal bleed.


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## SacredX (Feb 7, 2015)

Luffy vs. Enel all over again.  Until Mihawk is shown to be able to cut diamond, Jozu takes this.  The only feat Mihawk has against Jozu is being unable to cut him anyway.


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## Canute87 (Feb 7, 2015)

why is DF diamond an issue  if haki is a factor here?


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## HisMajestyMihawk (Feb 7, 2015)

Canute87 said:


> why is DF diamond an issue  if haki is a factor here?



People keep forgetting that haki allows you to hit the user's real body, regardless of element


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## LyricalMessiah (Feb 8, 2015)

HisMajestyMihawk said:


> People keep forgetting that haki allows you to hit the user's real body, regardless of element



When it comes to Logias, Haki is a useful method that allows one's attack to injure the Logia's real body, unless the Logia user also reinforces the part of their body that is being targeted by someone applying Haki in their attack(s) with Haki. However, diamond works completely differently to Logias when it comes to being subject to an attack/force. First of all, diamond is a rough and solid matter that Haki alone would not be enough to penetrate through Jozu's defense to target his body beneath the diamond defense. The other important thing to factor in is the level at which your Haki needs to be which needs to be at a very high level in order to damage Jozu's body. If you think about the fact that even Mihawk's slash could not even put a single scratch on Jozu's diamond defense, you'll realize that Haki in itself will have inadequate effects on Jozu's defense. You need both a very strong physical attack and good Haki to damage Jozu's defense. Also, am I the only one who thinks that Mihawk did not imbue Haki in his slash?

 I assume that there are some exceptions to that fact above like with the Gura Gura no mi's tremor power that I assume would be enough to shatter Jozu's defense even without the assistance of Haki.


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## Canute87 (Feb 8, 2015)

LyricalMessiah said:


> *When it comes to Logias, Haki is a useful method that allows one's attack to injure the Logia's real body,* unless the Logia user also reinforces the part of their body that is being targeted by someone applying Haki in their attack(s) with Haki. However, diamond works completely differently to Logias when it comes to being subject to an attack/force. First of all, diamond is a rough and solid matter that Haki alone would not be enough to penetrate through Jozu's defense to target his body beneath the diamond defense. The other important thing to factor in is the level at which your Haki needs to be which needs to be at a very high level in order to damage Jozu's body. If you think about the fact that even Mihawk's slash could not even put a single scratch on Jozu's diamond defense, you'll realize that Haki in itself will have inadequate effects on Jozu's defense. You need both a very strong physical attack and good Haki to damage Jozu's defense. Also, am I the only one who thinks that Mihawk did not imbue Haki in his slash?
> 
> I assume that there are some exceptions to that fact above like with the Gura Gura no mi's tremor power that I assume would be enough to shatter Jozu's defense even without the assistance of Haki.



Rayleigh's explanation was for all DF users. 

Josu doesn't encase himself in diamond.  He is diamond.


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## LyricalMessiah (Feb 8, 2015)

Canute87 said:


> Rayleigh's explanation was for all DF users.
> 
> Josu doesn't encase himself in diamond.  He is diamond.



Understand the context of a statement.

You're taking things out of context. Jozu's ability is that of a paramecia and not a Logia. A mere Haki imbued attack won't be enough to cut through Jozu's defense. Jozu isn't diamond at all times like Luffy. He can transform his body into diamond.


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## Canute87 (Feb 8, 2015)

LyricalMessiah said:


> Understand the context of a statement.
> 
> You're taking things out of context. Jozu's ability is that of a paramecia and not a Logia. A mere Haki imbued attack won't be enough to cut through Jozu's defense. Jozu isn't diamond at all times like Luffy. He can transform his body into diamond.



No, He's made of diamond  just like luffy is made of rubber.


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## LyricalMessiah (Feb 8, 2015)

Canute87 said:


> No, He's made of diamond  just like luffy is made of rubber.



I know that he becomes a diamond man once he 'activates' his fruit's power and I never said that he wasn't a diamond man. Two different things. 

I never denied this. Jozu eating the diamond fruit makes him a diamond man but he isn't automatically in his diamond form at all times. He isn't an 'active' diamond man just like how Luffy is an 'active' rubber man. Jozu would have gotten cut by Mihawk's slash had he not activated either his diamond ability or his Haki.

I'll give you an even better example supported by Manga facts by oda himself. When it comes to triggering the power of a paramecia fruit that you've consumed, it differs from user to user. For instance, the Gomu Gomu no Mi, Yomi Yomi no Mi, and Sube Sube no Mi have powers that are passively active at all times, whilst others such as the Noro Noro no Mi, Jozu's unnamed fruit and Hana Hana no Mi require self-activation.


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## Venom (Feb 8, 2015)

Canute87 said:


> why is DF diamond an issue  if haki is a factor here?



Was about to post this as well 
Why do you guys even assume that Mihawk has to cut diamond in this fight?
Haki is pretty much meant for these cases.


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## Canute87 (Feb 8, 2015)

LyricalMessiah said:


> I know that he becomes a diamond man once he 'activates' his fruit's power and I never said that he wasn't a diamond man. Two different things.
> 
> I never denied this. Jozu eating the diamond fruit makes him a diamond man but he isn't automatically in his diamond form at all times. He isn't an 'active' diamond man just like how Luffy is an 'active' rubber man. Jozu would have gotten cut by Mihawk's slash had he not activated either his diamond ability or his Haki.
> 
> I'll give you an even better example supported by Manga facts by oda himself. When it comes to triggering the power of a paramecia fruit that you've consumed, it differs from user to user. For instance, the Gomu Gomu no Mi, Yomi Yomi no Mi, and Sube Sube no Mi have powers that are passively active at all times, whilst others such as the Noro Noro no Mi, Jozu's unknown fruit and Hana Hana no Mi require self-activation.



He's diamond 24 -7.

His paramecia is not an activation type, it's a body altering.


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## LyricalMessiah (Feb 8, 2015)

Canute87 said:


> He's diamond 24 -7.
> 
> His paramecia is not an activation type, it's a body altering.



Not trying to insult you, but do you comprehend the definition of 'activate' It seems that you do not understand the definition of activate; make (something) active or operative. Jozu makes the diamonds on his body appear by activating it/df ability.

It's a body altering ability that he needs to 'self-activate'  He isn't in his 'diamond form' at all times and that's a fact. I've already explained to you that Jozu can willingly imbue certain parts of his body with diamonds by primarily having to activate his 'fruit's' power himself. He activates his body altering ability into diamonds. That's all I am trying to get at.

I see no reason to re-explain myself; I'll give you an even better example supported by Manga facts by oda himself. When it comes to triggering the power of a paramecia fruit that you've consumed, it differs from user to user. For instance, the Gomu Gomu no Mi, Yomi Yomi no Mi, and Sube Sube no Mi have powers that are passively active at all times, whilst others such as the Noro Noro no Mi, Jozu's unknown fruit and Hana Hana no Mi require self-activation.


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## Canute87 (Feb 8, 2015)

LyricalMessiah said:


> Not trying to insult you, but do you comprehend the definition of 'activate' It seems that you do not understand the definition of activate; make (something) active or operative. Jozu makes the diamonds on his body appear by activating it/df ability.
> 
> It's a body altering ability that he needs to 'self-activate'  He isn't in his 'diamond form' at all times and that's a fact. I've already explained to you that Jozu can willingly imbue certain parts of his body with diamonds by primarily having to activate his 'fruit's' power himself. He activates his body altering ability into diamond. That's all I am trying to get at.
> 
> I see no reason to re-explain myself; I'll give you an even better example supported by Manga facts by oda himself. When it comes to triggering the power of a paramecia fruit that you've consumed, it differs from user to user. For instance, the Gomu Gomu no Mi, Yomi Yomi no Mi, and Sube Sube no Mi have powers that are passively active at all times, whilst others such as the Noro Noro no Mi, Jozu's unknown fruit and Hana Hana no Mi require self-activation.



At no point is josu just normal flesh and bone.  Do you understand my poiny now?


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## LyricalMessiah (Feb 8, 2015)

Canute87 said:


> At no point is josu just normal flesh and bone.  Do you understand my poiny now?



You're saying he's in his diamond form at all times and that his insides are imbued with diamonds even when the outer part of his body isn't imbued with diamonds? Am I understanding you right?

To make his ability to physically manifest diamonds appear on his body, he needs to 'activate' his diamond ability.

I barely understand your point. Seriously, Canute, I am having trouble understanding what you are trying to say.


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## Venom (Feb 8, 2015)

LyricalMessiah said:


> Not trying to insult you, but do you comprehend the definition of 'activate' It seems that you do not understand the definition of activate; make (something) active or operative. Jozu makes the diamonds on his body appear by activating it/df ability.
> 
> It's a body altering ability that he needs to 'self-activate'  He isn't in his 'diamond form' at all times and that's a fact. I've already explained to you that Jozu can willingly imbue certain parts of his body with diamonds by primarily having to activate his 'fruit's' power himself. He activates his body altering ability into diamond. That's all I am trying to get at.
> 
> I see no reason to repeat myself; I'll give you an even better example supported by Manga facts by oda himself. When it comes to triggering the power of a paramecia fruit that you've consumed, it differs from user to user. For instance, the Gomu Gomu no Mi, Yomi Yomi no Mi, and Sube Sube no Mi have powers that are passively active at all times, whilst others such as the Noro Noro no Mi, Jozu's unknown fruit and Hana Hana no Mi require self-activation.



It simply does not matter.
Oda introduced Haki into his story so that problems like this won't occure where someone is heavily overpowered with his DF and no one can do shit to him.
If Haki is not capable of penetrating Jozu's body then the whole Haki concept is completely pointless.
The likes of Akainu, Shanks, Kizaru would not be able to beat him if this was true.


----------



## Canute87 (Feb 8, 2015)

LyricalMessiah said:


> *You're saying he's in his diamond form at all times a*nd that his insides are imbued with diamonds even when the outer part of his body isn't imbued with diamonds? Am I understanding you right?
> 
> To make his ability to physically manifest diamonds appear on his body, he needs to 'activate' his diamond ability.
> 
> I barely understand your point. Seriously, Canute, I am having trouble understanding what you are trying to say.



That's correct.  

well....... Not sure about his organs.


----------



## LyricalMessiah (Feb 8, 2015)

Zοrο said:


> It simply does not matter.
> Oda introduced Haki into his story so that problems like this won't occure where someone is heavily overpowered with his DF and no one can do shit to him.
> If Haki is not capable of penetrating Jozu's body then the whole Haki concept is completely pointless.
> The likes of Akainu, Shanks, Kizaru would not be able to beat him if this was true.



First and foremost, I never said that Mihawk cannot bypass Jozu's defense. Secondly, cite me a statement that has me saying that Haki cannot be used to penetrate a Devil fruit's defense. 

To add more, I questioned whether Mihawk can get passed Jozu's defense because his 'slash' wasn't able to put a scratch on him, but I also questioned if Mihawk used Haki which must be at a high level seeing as how it's Mihawk we're talking about. I think Mihawk has stronger and more effective attacks than the feat he displayed in Marineford. Until then, it's futile to say whether he can or cannot get passed Jozu's defense because of the lack of evidence.

I don't think you fully understand the purpose of my post. I wasn't saying that Haki cannot be used as a medium to bypass a Logia/Devil fruit user's defense, just that the level at which a person's haki that he or she possesses must be at a 'High' enough level to penetrate through Jozu's defense. 

But, I'll give Mihawk the benefit of the doubt because he's the world's strongest swordsman and should have great Haki. He'd need high diff to beat Jozu.

I said the above here. 


> When it comes to Logias, Haki is a useful method that allows one's attack to injure the Logia's real body, unless the Logia user also reinforces the part of their body that is being targeted by someone applying Haki in their attack(s) with Haki. However, diamond works completely differently to Logias when it comes to being subject to an attack/force. First of all, diamond is a rough and solid matter that Haki alone would not be enough to penetrate through Jozu's defense to target his body beneath the diamond defense. The other important thing to factor in is the level at which your Haki needs to be which needs to be at a very high level in order to damage Jozu's body. If you think about the fact that even Mihawk's slash could not even put a single scratch on Jozu's diamond defense, you'll realize that Haki in itself will have inadequate effects on Jozu's defense. You need both a very strong physical attack and good Haki to damage Jozu's defense. Also, am I the only one who thinks that Mihawk did not imbue Haki in his slash?




Before I continue, are you trying to say that Tashigi can get passed Jozu's diamond defense alone because the level of one's Haki is irrelevant?

Are you also trying to say that Tashigi can cut seastone which has been said to be as hard as diamond?


----------



## LyricalMessiah (Feb 8, 2015)

Canute87 said:


> That's correct.



I disagree 

I think he isn't in his diamond form at all times.


----------



## Canute87 (Feb 8, 2015)

LyricalMessiah said:


> I disagree
> 
> I think he isn't in his diamond form at all times.



Good now we can begin  

Made a slight edit, please look on it before continuing.

Why do you think he isn't?


----------



## Venom (Feb 8, 2015)

LyricalMessiah said:


> First and foremost, I never said that Mihawk cannot bypass Jozu's defense. Secondly, cite me a statement that has me saying that Haki cannot be used to penetrate a Devil fruit's defense.
> 
> To add more, I questioned whether Mihawk can get pass Jozu's defense because his 'slash' wasn't able to put a scratch on him, but I also questioned if Mihawk used Haki which must be at a high level seeing as how it's Mihawk we're talking about. I think Mihawk has stronger and more effective attacks than the feat he displayed in Marineford. Until then, it's futile to say whether he can or cannot get passed Jozu's defense because of the lack of evidence.
> 
> ...



No.
My point is:
It does not matter.
As long as Mihawk has superior Haki and uses it against Jozu his Dimaond Body won't be able to protect him from Mihawk's slashes. In which way Jozu's DF works being irrelevant in this case.
That is all.


----------



## Daisuke Jigen (Feb 8, 2015)

Canute87 said:


> He's diamond 24 -7.


This, it's just an art decision for Oda not to draw Jozu completely covered in diamond.


----------



## Canute87 (Feb 8, 2015)

LyricalMessiah said:


> Before I continue, are you trying to say that Tashigi can get passed Jozu's diamond defense alone because the level of one's Haki is irrelevant?
> 
> ?



No way he could believe that, Tashigi's haki is too weak to make a difference.

But the point is if rayleigh did a flick on josu's forehead despite being hard as diamond he'd feel that shit.


----------



## Canute87 (Feb 8, 2015)

Issho said:


> This, it's just an art decision for Oda not to draw Jozu completely covered in diamond.



I wonder though what exactly triggers the diamond to show up.

I see getting hit will do so but i wonder if josu flexing his muscle does the same


----------



## LyricalMessiah (Feb 8, 2015)

Canute87 said:


> Good now we can begin
> 
> Made a slight edit, please look on it before continuing.
> 
> Why do you think he isn't?



Okay, my stance on the matter is that Jozu's ability to physically manifest diamonds on his body requires him to 'self-activate' the ability that the 'Devil fruit' which he consumed gave him. For him to make the diamonds appear on his body, he needs to 'activate' the ability.  His ability to imbue diamonds on his body isn't constantly 'on' like Luffy's Gomu Gomu no mi or Alvida's Sube Sube no mi that do not require any activation because both Luffy and Alvida are 'always' in the form that their Devil fruit grants them. In other words, both of them, as opposed to Jozu, have powers that are passively active at all times. The relevant words here are 'self-activation', and 'passive-active'

Jozu isn't always in his diamond form and we can see the difference between when he is in his diamond form, and when he isn't;

Base form/inactive form; 

Diamond form/activated form; 

Just to make things clearer for the both of us and before we can move further on into this discussion, can you clarify what is your stance on this discussion? I'd greatly appreciate it.


----------



## LyricalMessiah (Feb 8, 2015)

Zοrο said:


> No.
> My point is:
> It does not matter.
> As long as Mihawk has superior Haki and uses it against Jozu his Dimaond Body won't be able to protect him from Mihawk's slashes. In which way Jozu's DF works being irrelevant in this case.
> That is all.



There was absolutely no reason for you to disagree with me because the premise of my post was that Haki in itself cannot allow you to penetrate through a Diamond man's defense if it isn't at an adequate enough level, a statement of mine which you seem to have no problem with in the post that I just quoted. Mihawk is a very powerful and experienced fighter whose Haki and physical strength must both be at a high enough level for him to be capable of bypassing Jozu's defense.

Then why did you disagree with me? You basically agree with me when you said that 'As long as Mihawk has superior Haki' I claimed that if Mihawk has superior Haki, then he should be able to cut through Jozu's defense assuming that Jozu himself isn't imbuing his defense with Haki as well.

What do you mean by 'DF works being irrelevant in this case'


Also, why did you Straw-man my claim by saying that you disagree with my supposedly made  claim that 'Haki' cannot bypass a Devil fruit's defense/Jozu's defense and saying i'd otherwise be a moot concept? 





> If Haki is not capable of penetrating Jozu's body then the whole Haki concept is completely pointless.
> The likes of Akainu, Shanks, Kizaru would not be able to beat him if this was true.


----------



## LyricalMessiah (Feb 8, 2015)

Canute87 said:


> No way he could believe that, Tashigi's haki is too weak to make a difference.
> 
> But the point is if rayleigh did a flick on josu's forehead despite being hard as diamond he'd feel that shit.



Then why did he disagree with me? I am thoroughly confused. My original post that I wrote was that one's Haki must be at a high enough level in order to penetrate Jozu's defense. He replies to me about how the concept of Haki would be moot if no one with Haki can penetrate through his defense when I never made that claim.


----------



## Canute87 (Feb 8, 2015)

LyricalMessiah said:


> Okay, my stance on the matter is that Jozu's ability to physically manifest diamonds on his body requires him to 'self-activate' the ability that the 'Devil fruit' which he consumed gave him. For him to make the diamonds appear on his body, he needs to 'activate' the ability.  His ability to imbue diamonds on his body isn't constantly 'on' like Luffy's Gomu Gomu no mi or Alvida's Sube Sube no mi that do not require any activation because both Luffy and Alvida are 'always' in the form that their Devil fruit grants them. In other words, both of them, as opposed to Jozu, have powers that are passively active at all times. The relevant words here are 'self-activation', and 'passive-active'
> 
> Jozu isn't always in his diamond form and we can see the difference between when he is in his diamond form, and when he isn't;
> 
> ...


Now please try to understand my point here,  it might be difficult to understand but i'll try my best.

Knowing full well that luffy is a rubber man,  it is worth noticing that this is something you CANNOT determine at first glance.

Let's show a few pictures of luffy.



*Spoiler*: __ 



http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20141012144640/onepiece/images/6/6d/Monkey_D._Luffy_Anime_Post_Timeskip_Infobox.png




*Spoiler*: __ 



http://lounge.moviecodec.com/images/attachment/which-is-the-most-badass-image-of-ichigo-naruto-and-luffy-43618.jpg




Nice pictures right?  especially the last one.

Now this is part I'm talking about.

When do you notice that Luffy is a rubberman?  When the effects of his DF start to *SHOW*

You won't exactly know that luffy is using his rubber powers until he starts to stretch, inflate or is the recipient of things like bullets when his skin stretches out. A case can be made here for Josu,  the effects of his DF starts to show when he's the recipient  of a attack or he wishes to dish out an attack himself.

When luffy is going to *punch *,  you see a *stretched arm *and only that stretched arm  is not as if his entire body loosens up, when Josu is going to *punch* you see a *Diamond  arm*. When something blunt hits luffy you see his body stretched out and only at the point of the objects impact, when something hits josu  you see the diamond effect showed on where the impact occurred.

This is the SHOWING aspect of the DF at this point the similarities are there the properties are just different. 





> Just to make things clearer for the both of us and before we can further on into this discussion, can you clarify what is your stance on this discussion? I'd greatly appreciate it.



My stance is that Josu is just like luffy, clear cut.  He doesn't need to activate the diamond body  he just is.


Wish to ask you a question while i'm responding to your posts. 

Please keep them  as brief as you can.


----------



## LyricalMessiah (Feb 8, 2015)

Canute87 said:


> Now please try to understand my point here,  it might be difficult to understand but i'll try my best.
> 
> Knowing full well that luffy is a rubber man,  it is worth noticing that this is something you CANNOT determine at first glance.
> 
> ...



Before I answer, do you want to make a thread about this in the OL?

No worries.


----------



## Canute87 (Feb 8, 2015)

LyricalMessiah said:


> Before I answer, do you want to make a thread about this in the OL?
> 
> No worries.



Yeah  I'll do so,  looking at it it does carry the this particular thread way off course.  Gonna use those two terminlogies.

Post your initial stance, and I'll post this response.  Do not post anything else until I most what I just did.


----------



## Venom (Feb 8, 2015)

LyricalMessiah said:


> There was absolutely no reason for you to disagree with me because the premise of my post was that Haki in itself cannot allow you to penetrate through a Diamond man's defense if it isn't at an adequate enough level, a statement of mine which you seem to have no problem with in the post that I just quoted. Mihawk is a very powerful and experienced fighter whose Haki and physical strength must both be at a high enough level for him to be capable of bypassing Jozu's defense.
> 
> Then why did you disagree with me? You basically agree with me when you said that 'As long as Mihawk has superior Haki' I claimed that if Mihawk has superior Haki, then he should be able to cut through Jozu's defense assuming that Jozu himself isn't imbuing his defense with Haki as well.
> 
> ...



You are reading far too much into my comment LM.
I didn't really say I disagree or agree with you.
My point is (again) that it wouldn't matter how Jozu's body works when fighting against someone who has superior haki.
This
Nothing more
Nothing less


----------



## Admiral Kizaru (Feb 8, 2015)

Skim reading through the thread. Some points:

1) Why are people assuming that Diamond can't be cut? Diamond can be cut in real life (though with great difficulty) ........ the only reason I would assume people are even saying that is because Jozu blocked Mihawk's slash at MF. But that was:

A) A long range sword slash
B) Not intended for him
C) Jozu had sufficient prep time to defend and subsequently block the attack. 

2) Even if it can't be literally cut into two neat pieces, that doesn't mean that Jozu wouldn't accumulate damage from the impact of Mihawk's sword on him. Both from the blunt force and also from all the scratches and chinks that'll inevitably arise from it. 



OT: Mihawk wins, mid difficulty. Have a hard time seeing Jozu get past Mihawk's defence to get many good tackles and blows in.


----------



## LyricalMessiah (Feb 8, 2015)

Zοrο said:


> You are reading far too much into my comment LM.
> I didn't really say I disagree or agree with you.
> My point is (again) that it wouldn't matter how Jozu's body works when fighting against someone who has superior haki.
> This
> ...



No offense man, but I think I've been interpreting what you said correctly. 


Anyways, just to re-explain certain things, again, I was confused when you replied to me with this comment 





> It simply does not matter.
> Oda introduced Haki into his story so that problems like this won't occure where someone is heavily overpowered with his DF and no one can do shit to him.
> If Haki is not capable of penetrating Jozu's body then the whole Haki concept is completely pointless.
> The likes of Akainu, Shanks, Kizaru would not be able to beat him if this was true.



Were you trying to initiate a discussion with me as opposed to pointing out the flaws in my post or were you accusing me of saying that 'Haki isn't capable of penetrating Jozu's body' as it'd be moot?


It's as simple as that.

My first post on this thread to 'hismajestymihawk' was merely me wanting to explain why Haki in itself is not enough to bypass a strong DF defense like Jozu's diamond defense unless the haki is at a high enough level. In regards to Mihawk, I had used him as an example of the strong durability of Jozu's defense shown to take a lot of force on it without being bypassed. However, I wasn't of the opinion that Mihawk couldn't bypass Jozu's defense just yet as I questioned if he used Haki in that slash or not. I do not think he used Haki since he failed to show it against buggy nor do I believe that the slash he used on WB that was intercepted by Jozu was his strongest attack.


----------



## Bohemian Knight (Feb 8, 2015)

Admiral Kizaru said:


> Skim reading through the thread. Some points:
> 
> 1) Why are people assuming that Diamond can't be cut? Diamond can be cut in real life (though with great difficulty) ........ the only reason I would assume people are even saying that is because Jozu blocked Mihawk's slash at MF. But that was:
> 
> ...



It was intended for the WSM, and it the slash was performed in order for Mihawk to test himself against that man. He is admittedly weaker than WB, so why would he hold back? The slash should have been full force.

Point 2 on the other hand is correct. He can definitely be cut, but it requires vastly superior Haki because Jozu is shown to be proficient in CoA. And that is on top of his already stellar diamond defense


----------



## Yuki (Feb 8, 2015)

Admiral Kizaru said:


> Skim reading through the thread. Some points:
> 
> 1) Why are people assuming that Diamond can't be cut? Diamond can be cut in real life (though with great difficulty) ........ the only reason I would assume people are even saying that is because Jozu blocked Mihawk's slash at MF. But that was:
> 
> ...



Let me say it how it is. 

1. Diamond can only be cut by diamond, metal cannot scratch a diamond even with 10000 years of trying. It's too thick to do anything to the diamond's molecule structure. Idc who is using the metal sword, it cannot be done. It's not a matter of skill, it's a matter of psychics. 

2. To damage diamond with blunt force you must attack it with a force greater than it was created with. While in the OP world where people can easily shatter rock with their fists, it's not too hard to believe, but we must also assume that the diamond that Jozu has is also much stronger than normal diamond, due to the fact if he was not, EL Luffy could punch him to death in seconds. 

In other words, real life people cannot damage a diamond. As such, even though in the world of OP people are far stronger, they are also far more durable evening it out. BUT, this probably only accounts for people at the same level of strength. 

So can Mihawk damage Jozu's dimond with brunt force? I guess it depends on each of their physical strengths. Seeing that physical strength is Jozu's thing. I very much doubt that Mihawk is physically stronger than the person with the so far greatest strength feat in the OP world. As such, no i do not think Mihawk can damage Jozu's diamond with brunt force. 

So in the end, it once again comes down to Haki.

Metal cutting diamond? No. Mihawk being strong enough to damage his diomond with brunt force? No. Is Mihawk able to damage Jozu with Haki? Idk can he? That is the REAL debate here, and the only way for Mihawk to damage Jozu.


----------



## Dr. White (Feb 8, 2015)

Admiral Kizaru said:


> Why are people assuming that Diamond can't be cut? Diamond can be cut in real life (though with great difficulty) ........


Diamond is only cut with other diamonds. They use metal spinning wheels and coat the blade with diamond dust, and some oil I believe. Metal is not cutting diamond by itself, IRL of course.




> A) A long range sword slash


Of little importance. Zoro's 1080 Pound Ho was far more impressive than his Shi Shi Son Son.



> B) Not intended for him


This point is pretty much moot to since the target was the WSM. Literally no reason for Mihawk to hold back, and for someone as  obsessed with skill and combat prowess as he is, it makes it less likely he wold decide to use a stronger slash had he known it was Jozu.


> C) Jozu had sufficient prep time to defend and subsequently block the attack.


Not really. Jozu was hunderds of yards away busy with the war. Mihawk arbitrarily decide to strike at WB, and given he's a top tier (and what we've seen from Zoro and Mihawk on the speed of their ranged slashes) his slashes are easily Hypersonic +. I'll concede it was an interception feat, but Jozu had just as much time to block it as WB would have had, less actually given his distance from the target of the slash.


> 2) Even if it can't be literally cut into two neat pieces, that doesn't mean that Jozu wouldn't accumulate damage from the impact of Mihawk's sword on him. Both from the blunt force and also from all the scratches and chinks that'll inevitably arise from it.


This is true, but I doubt Mihawk is physically stronger than Jozu. Mihawk is a swordsman who uses strength and technique to cut things. He isn't necessarily going to be breaking Jozu down with the back end of his sword given Jozu's Diamond defense and presumably beast base durability. 

With Haki Mihawk can circumvent this, but Jozu has Haki of his own to keep up with Mihawk.


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Feb 8, 2015)

Mihawk does not even need haki.

He is the WSS, there is nothing he can't cut.


----------



## Yuki (Feb 8, 2015)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Mihawk does not even need haki.
> 
> He is the WSS, there is nothing he can't cut.



Except diamond with metal.


----------



## Dunno (Feb 8, 2015)

Admiral Kizaru said:


> Skim reading through the thread. Some points:
> 
> 1) Why are people assuming that Diamond can't be cut? Diamond can be cut in real life (though with great difficulty) ........ the only reason I would assume people are even saying that is because Jozu blocked Mihawk's slash at MF. But that was:
> 
> ...



It's DIAMOND, it's fucking DIAMOND. Nothing can cut DIAMOND. DIAMOND is INDESTRUCTIBLE. Jozu is INDESTRUCTIBLE. Nobody can kill him. He's almighty. That's why.


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Feb 8, 2015)

Juvia. said:


> Except diamond with metal.



Mihawk could cleave Jozu in half with a stone axe.


----------



## Dr. White (Feb 8, 2015)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Mihawk could cleave Jozu in half with a stone axe.



Assuming Shanks imbued with his much better Haki


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Feb 8, 2015)

^Nope 

No Haki needed


----------



## Captain Altintop (Feb 8, 2015)

Mihawk wins mid-high diff. 

Mihawk is on upper Admiral level and Jozu is probably a very low top tier among with DD etc.
In general, the DF alone doesn't determine fights in top tier area.

In the NW, matchups aren't that important because Haki is the key to avoid such handicaps.

Just because you have a DF doesn't mean its oppurtunity works against stronger people with greater Haki.

Of course he Jozu is a worse matchup for any swordsmen and because of this he will give Mihawk mid-high diff, nothing more or less.


----------



## Etherborn (Feb 8, 2015)

He might not need haki to cut diamond directly but he's definitely going to need it to cut Jozu. I don't believe for a second that the sheer force of Mihawk's slashes couldn't cut a hunk of diamond in half if he actually tried. Now Jozu's diamond armor + armaments haki + base stats, that's a different story. Diamond isn't all he's got. That would be like saying Tashigi can cut Luffy in half because she can obviously cut through rubber. 

And to the people who say that haki would "automatically" cut through Jozu's diamond armor as if it wasn't there, I highly doubt that this is the case. In the case of logias and other devil fruits that alter the composition of the human body, armaments haki is able to bypass the devil fruit form and attack the regular body, but Jozu doesn't alter the composition of his body to gain immunity to blunt damage, he seems to just coat his body in diamond to increase his durability. 

Unless of course what he really does is change his entire body into diamond at will, but that's kind of unprecedented. He's not a logia as far as I know, so if his power is activated, it's unlikely that he's changing the properties of his entire body like a logia is. Even Luffy, a paramecia, had his entire body morphed into rubber, but he can't actively switch between the two. So either Jozu's devil fruit is very unique, or he just encases his body in diamond, which I find more likely. In this case, haki won't do anything other than increase the power of Mihawk's slashes so he can cut through Jozu's defense more effectively. 

But to be honest Jozu is a bad matchup for Mihawk. Diamond is actually not that strong when it comes to blunt force. Steel is actually stronger as far as I know. Diamond is VERY hard though. The only things that can cleave diamond in real life are other diamonds. They can do it with lasers too though, since diamond doesn't hold up well against heat either. I'm gonna say Mihawk high difficulty.


----------



## Raiden34 (Feb 8, 2015)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> He is the WSS, there is nothing he can't cut.



No one said WSS can cut diamond, that is why he never tried to attack Jozu after he see his power.


----------



## HisMajestyMihawk (Feb 8, 2015)

Marco1907 said:


> No one said WSS can cut diamond, that is why he never tried to attack Jozu after he see his power.



 this hurts my brain


----------



## Gohara (Feb 8, 2015)

Mihawk wins with around mid difficulty.  Jozu has difficulty blocking a one handed blow from a far away standing Mihawk.  Mihawk should also be more powerful than Marco given that Zoro will be surpassing Mihawk around and/or going into the final Arc of the series.   So he should be notably more powerful than Jozu.


----------



## Raiden34 (Feb 9, 2015)

HisMajestyMihawk said:


> this hurts my brain


----------



## LyricalMessiah (Feb 9, 2015)

I wonder if someone in the series will be shown slicing diamonds.


----------



## HisMajestyMihawk (Feb 9, 2015)

Forget Mihawk...even current Zoro has a good shot at beating Jozu in an extreme diff fight


----------



## Raiden34 (Feb 10, 2015)

HisMajestyMihawk said:


> Forget Mihawk...even current Zoro has a good shot at beating Jozu in an extreme diff fight




 zoro......?


----------



## LyricalMessiah (Feb 10, 2015)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Mihawk does not even need haki.
> 
> He is the WSS, there is nothing he can't cut.





Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Mihawk could cleave Jozu in half with a stone axe.



I don't know if you're serious with these posts... but man. Those are both objectively wrong.


----------



## Dunno (Feb 10, 2015)

LyricalMessiah said:


> I don't know if you're serious with these posts... but man. Those are both subjectively wrong.



Fixed that for you.


----------



## LyricalMessiah (Feb 10, 2015)

Dunno said:


> Fixed that for you.



It's an 'objective' fact that what he was saying is 'wrong'. His statement relies purely on his own personal bias that he flaunted as a fact without any evidential support from the Manga. Why? Mihawk has yet to display any diamond cutting feats thus far and he certainly cannot cut Jozu's seemingly impenetrable diamond defence with an axe hammer when even his slash from his kokutou yoru could not put a scratch on it.

Does this mean that we'll never see someone in the story with the capability to cut diamonds? No. I've never been remotely close to making such an implication.


----------



## Admiral Kizaru (Feb 10, 2015)

Ok I'll concede the point about how diamond is cut in real life. Though I'd bring forward Corus' larger point about bringing in real life physics as being silly. 



Bohemian Knight said:


> It was intended for the WSM, and it the slash was performed in order for Mihawk to test himself against that man. He is admittedly weaker than WB, so why would he hold back? The slash should have been full force.



Don't you think that's a rather simplistic way of looking at things though?

Sure when it comes to raw power output of that slash then yes it would have been foolish for Mihawk to hold back but I think there's a lot more to sword slashes then power. Otherwise someone like Jozu could become WSM if he decided to pick up a sword one day and wave it about casually. 

For example, something like the shape and distribution of Mihawk's sword slashes could be influenced by the opponent he's facing. Someone like Jozu who's probably physically heavier and bulkier may require a slash which is thinner and more power concentrated.


----------



## LyricalMessiah (Feb 10, 2015)

Honestly, I highly doubt that the slash he used on the 'WSM' at that time (which tells us that it was far from a casual slash) was his strongest slash/attack. There's no evidence that he used Haki to reinforce the power behind his slash as well since Oda mysteriously chose not to have Mihawk use Haki against Buggy's Devil fruit intangibility in the scenes that happened after Mihawk attempted to test his own might against the presumably WSM. 


I don't agree with the possibility of there being alternative methods for a Swordsman to cut through Jozu's defense if they lack the necessary power behind their attack(s) to bypass Jozu's defense unless there are weak points in Jozu's defense for a highly proficient Swordsman to target to bypass it.

You know, I have this weird feeling that it'd be very awkward not to accept Mihawk as someone who can cut diamonds seeing as he's the Worlds strongest Swordsman. I feel like we should give him the benefit of the doubt but would that be discrediting Jozu's defense?


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## Dunno (Feb 10, 2015)

LyricalMessiah said:


> It's an 'objective' fact that what he was saying is 'wrong'. His statement relies purely on his own personal bias that he flaunted as a fact without any evidential support from the Manga. Why? Mihawk has yet to display any diamond cutting feats thus far and he certainly cannot cut Jozu's seemingly impenetrable diamond defence with an axe hammer when even his slash from his kokutou yoru could not put a scratch on it.
> 
> Does this mean that we'll never see someone in the story with the capability to cut diamonds? No. I've never been remotely close to making such an implication.



It's not an objective fact that Mihawk can't cut Jozu without using Haki. It's not an objective fact that Mihawk can't cut Jozu with a stone axe. So which facts are objectively wrong?


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## LyricalMessiah (Feb 10, 2015)

Dunno said:


> It's not an objective fact that Mihawk can't cut Jozu without using Haki. It's not an objective fact that Mihawk can't cut Jozu with a stone axe. So which facts are objectively wrong?



You've made false assumptions on me about how I supposedly said one of the claims you brought forth. Furthermore, I never said that Mihawk cannot cut diamond without the assistance of his Haki. If you've read most of my posts, you'd see that I made several claims that Mihawk cannot be viewed as someone who can cut diamond 'as of yet' since he's 'yet' to display it thus far and was shown to be incapable of cutting diamond directly on panel that leaves us with the doubt on if he can cut diamond or not. However, I then mentioned the question of if he had used Haki in that slash that Jozu blocked in addition to questioning whether fighting in close quarters would improve his chances of cutting diamond. I never ruled out the possibility that he can cut diamonds when considering either aforementioned factors.

The burden of proof is not on me to prove either of those claims since I wasn't the one who primarily made such claims. It's an objective fact that Mihawk's slash could not put a scratch on Jozu's diamond which should give you an answer to the question of whether or not he can cut diamond with an axe made out of stone. Mihawk was seen to be incapable of cutting diamond in Marine-ford but that does not mean that he cannot cut diamond since we've yet to know whether that was his strongest attack, if he used Haki and if attacking in close quarter melee would have a much more significant impact in cutting diamond than cutting at something from a distance. Obviously, When Mihawk is up close to his opponent and using his strongest attack in conjunction with Haki, he'd have a better chance of cutting diamond than when slashing from afar with a slash that most likely wasn't imbued with Haki nor his strongest.

If Mihawk was incapable of cutting diamond with a fairly powerful slash directed towards the man who he presumed to be the World's strongest man which logically prompted him to attack with a good portion of his strength with his renown weapon for its high caliber that is convenient for long ranged slashes/attacks, then surely a 'battle' axe would not remotely come close to having the same insignificant impact his slash with his favored and strongest sword had on Jozu's diamond.

You do not see the inconsistency in the argument that Mihawk can cut diamond with a battle axe made out of stone?


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## Luke (Feb 10, 2015)

Do you know how haki works?


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## LyricalMessiah (Feb 10, 2015)

LyricalMessiah said:


> First and foremost, I never said that Mihawk cannot bypass Jozu's defense. Secondly, cite me a statement that has me saying that Haki cannot be used to penetrate a Devil fruit's defense.
> 
> To add more, I questioned whether Mihawk can get passed Jozu's defense because his 'slash' wasn't able to put a scratch on him, but I also questioned if Mihawk used Haki which must be at a high level seeing as how it's Mihawk we're talking about. I think Mihawk has stronger and more effective attacks than the feat he displayed in Marineford. Until then, it's futile to say whether he can or cannot get passed Jozu's defense because of the lack of evidence.
> 
> ...





LyricalMessiah said:


> When it comes to Logias, Haki is a useful method that allows one's attack to injure the Logia's real body, unless the Logia user also reinforces the part of their body that is being targeted by someone applying Haki in their attack(s) with Haki. However, diamond works completely differently to Logias when it comes to being subject to an attack/force. First of all, diamond is a rough and solid matter that Haki alone would not be enough to penetrate through Jozu's defense to target his body beneath the diamond defense. The other important thing to factor in is the level at which your Haki needs to be which needs to be at a very high level in order to damage Jozu's body. If you think about the fact that even Mihawk's slash could not even put a single scratch on Jozu's diamond defense, you'll realize that Haki in itself will have inadequate effects on Jozu's defense. You need both a very strong physical attack and good Haki to damage Jozu's defense. Also, am I the only one who thinks that Mihawk did not imbue Haki in his slash?
> 
> I assume that there are some exceptions to that fact above like with the Gura Gura no mi's tremor power that I assume would be enough to shatter Jozu's defense even without the assistance of Haki.





Luke said:


> Do you know how haki works?



Do you know how to properly quote, much less read what's been said in this thread before coming to a rather dishonest and ignorant conclusion?

Honestly, if there's a neg worthy post in this thread, it's got to be this one.

It seems to me that you don't know how Haki works and using an emote to cover your inability isn't working.

If you read the posts I've made and worked up a coherent reply instead of attempting at trolling, impotent baiting and sarcasm, you'd at least contribute to this thread.

I said many times, specifically on the posts I just quoted for someone like you who apparently hates reading that one's level of Haki needs to be high enough to penetrate through Jozu's diamond defense. Haki won't just automatically allow you to breach through Jozu's diamond defense.

If you think otherwise, then you obviously must be of the opinion that Tashigi can cut seastone/Jozu's diamond defense which has been said to be as hard as diamond.


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## Luke (Feb 10, 2015)

My god have I struck a nerve  

And your last sentence has nothing to do with how I perceive haki


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## LyricalMessiah (Feb 10, 2015)

Luke said:


> My god have I struck a nerve
> 
> And your last sentence has nothing to do with how I perceive haki



How can you really distinguish between someone who is calm and collected whose purpose for his contribution in this thread is to find a reasonable conclusion for this thread and an angry person when online? The content of my post as a reply to your failed attempts at trolling? Certainly not since there is not a single sign in that post of mine that yells I am 'angry'.

There was no meaning to what you said besides you unveiling to be someone not to take seriously as he apparently prioritizes making rather dishonest one-liners with a touch of smileys to disguise his inability to produce an intelligent reply to what he apparently perceives as 'wrong' If I am wrong, then why not engage in a debate with me? Is it that you subtly admitted to being incompetent by insulting me from the get go instead of engaging me in a discussion in a civil manner? Your attitude in this thread is unacceptable because it won't help the discourse come to a conclusion.

You have, again, proven to me that reading is not your strong point. I was not accusing you of anything or of thinking that Tashigi can cut through Jozu's diamond and seastone. Clearly, when you accused me of, not knowing what 'Haki' was, you LOGICALLY disagreed with the entirety of the posts I've been making in this thread as well as the posts I made that I quoted just for you. 

When you accused me of not knowing what Haki was, you logically disagreed with each and every single one of my posts I've been making on the topic of Haki in this thread, you, therefore, believe that Tashigi can cut through Jozu's diamond defense and seastone. Haki won't automatically give you the ability to cut through Jozu's diamond defense. Your Haki must be at a high enough level. Do you agree or disagree with the latter statement?

You seem to be contradicting yourself quite a lot these days.


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## Luke (Feb 10, 2015)

I honestly have no idea what you're talking about right now.


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## Luke (Feb 10, 2015)

And yes, I read your giant fucking post that was written in response to two sentences.


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## LyricalMessiah (Feb 10, 2015)

Luke said:


> I honestly have no idea what you're talking about right now.



Again, this kind of attitude leads me to believe that you are trolling. I'll assume that you have short memory loss due to being dropped on the floor when you were very young which consequently makes your head release a chemical inside of it at times when you get too excited from having your logic backfire on you, similar to what a masochist feels when they have pain inflicted upon them, making you lose your memory of what happened.

Why did you accuse me of not knowing what Haki was? Cite me a statement, just a single statement, from any posts I made in this thread on the topic of Haki that you disagree with.


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## Luke (Feb 10, 2015)

Alrighty, just calm down there pal. This was the quote



> You do not see the inconsistency in the argument that Mihawk can cut diamond with a battle axe made out of stone?



Hence the DO YOU KNOW HOW HAKI WORKS???

I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings


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## LyricalMessiah (Feb 10, 2015)

Luke said:


> And yes, I read your giant fucking post that was written in response to two sentences.



Replying to a post that was disrespectful that came from a person who was trying too hard to troll but failed at it is a bad thing now? I was trying to clarify my position in this argument, specifically in regards to Haki, and yet you make it seem like that is a bad thing. And what did you disagree with those posts of mine that you 'supposedly' read? See, you make it very difficult for me to interpret what your intention(s) is when you're too vague with your posts. This leads to only one conclusion; short memory loss.

It is not in my nature to try reasoning with someone who has a short memory loss. I apologize to you in advance when you regain your memory and see just how bad of a troll you were.


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## LyricalMessiah (Feb 10, 2015)

Luke said:


> Alrighty, just calm down there pal. This was the quote
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I am calm, Luke!

Are you?

Can you elaborate your stance on this argument and why you disagree with that statement you excerpted from one of my posts? I'll happily engage in a 'CIVIL' discussion with you.


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## LyricalMessiah (Feb 10, 2015)

Luke said:


> Alrighty, just calm down there pal. This was the quote
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I really do not see anything logical with that. First, you're assuming that Mihawk has the necessary Haki to penetrate through Jozu's diamond defense (His slash could not which may or may of had been imbued with Haki) and the ability to emit the required power with a battle axe alone to cut through the defense of a man who withstood his slash with his sword intended for Whitebeard whilst disregarding that the person who had made that statement (Donxixote Doflamingo) who I disagreed with was of the opinion that Mihawk can cut through Jozu's defense with a battle axe and 'without' Haki. 

I said it once, but I'll say it again, I never said that Mihawk's haki cannot cut through Jozu's defense. I questioned whether he can or not and even gave him the benefit of the doubt... though I am not fully sure. I think Mihawk has a better chance of cutting Jozu's diamond defense with the use of both his sword and Haki whilst attacking at close range. 

I disagreed with Donxixote Doflamingo's statement that Mihawk can cut Jozu's diamond defense with a mere battle axe and without the assistance of Haki by mentioning that his slash with his legendary sword could not cut his diamond as a counterargument. These are the statements which I disagreed with that you seem to agree with for some reason 


> Mihawk does not even need haki.
> 
> He is the WSS, there is nothing he can't cut..





> Mihawk could cleave Jozu in half with a stone axe.



In those two statements that I quoted above directly from Donxixote Doflamingo's posts, you seem to be agreeing with the opinion that Mihawk can cut Jozu's defense with a mere battle axe and without Haki. Even when Haki is used on the battle axe, it STILL won't cut his defense due to the lack of power necessary to cut Jozu's diamond.

You hurt my feelings by allowing me on the secret that you occasionally go on a rampage whilst in your short memory loss  mode 

If you perhaps had read the thread instead of making assumptions based on reading just one post in a thread that consists of multiple posts, you would have avoided displaying your ignorance and letting me on the secret that you have a short memory loss.


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## Dunno (Feb 10, 2015)

LyricalMessiah said:


> You've made false assumptions on me about how I supposedly said one of the claims you brought forth. Furthermore, I never said that Mihawk cannot cut diamond without the assistance of his Haki. If you've read most of my posts, you'd see that I made several claims that Mihawk cannot be viewed as someone who can cut diamond 'as of yet' since he's 'yet' to display it thus far and was shown to be incapable of cutting diamond directly on panel that leaves us with the doubt on if he can cut diamond or not. However, I then mentioned the question of if he had used Haki in that slash that Jozu blocked in addition to questioning whether fighting in close quarters would improve his chances of cutting diamond. I never ruled out the possibility that he can cut diamonds when considering either aforementioned factors.
> 
> The burden of proof is not on me to prove either of those claims since I wasn't the one who primarily made such claims. It's an objective fact that Mihawk's slash could not put a scratch on Jozu's diamond which should give you an answer to the question of whether or not he can cut diamond with an axe made out of stone. Mihawk was seen to be incapable of cutting diamond in Marine-ford but that does not mean that he cannot cut diamond since we've yet to know whether that was his strongest attack, if he used Haki and if attacking in close quarter melee would have a much more significant impact in cutting diamond than cutting at something from a distance. Obviously, When Mihawk is up close to his opponent and using his strongest attack in conjunction with Haki, he'd have a better chance of cutting diamond than when slashing from afar with a slash that most likely wasn't imbued with Haki nor his strongest.
> 
> ...



The burden of proof is on you if you claim that a statements is objectively wrong. Claiming that the statement isn't objectively correct is one thing, but to claim that an opinion is objectively wrong, you need objective proof of it.


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## LyricalMessiah (Feb 10, 2015)

Dunno said:


> The burden of proof is on you if you claim that a statements is objectively wrong. Claiming that the statement isn't objectively correct is one thing, but to claim that an opinion is objectively wrong, you need objective proof of it.



I don't know what your point ranting on about who's the burden of proof and what an objective fact looks like, but I'll entertain you.

The burden of proof is not on me to provide evidence for his claim that Mihawk can cut diamond with a mere battle axe and without Haki. It is not my work to provide evidence for his assertions. However, even though I am in no way obligated to prove anything, I've provided evidence as rebuttals to his claims that Mihawk can cut diamond with either Haki on or not with a battle axe.

These are the claims he made which he failed to support with evidence; He is the WSS, there is nothing he can't cut..[/QUOTE]


> Mihawk could cleave Jozu in half with a stone axe.


-Failed to provide evidence of how he can cut anything when there has been direct on panel evidence which point to the contrary.
- Disregarding that a battle axe has less potency in cutting a matter than the original weapon Mihawk used that failed to cut through Jozu's diamond defense

You can't see the flaw in that comment?

Burden of proof to provide evidence is his duty, not mine. I have provided evidence that Mihawk cannot cut through diamond with a mere battle axe made out of stone with or without Haki even when I was not obligated to.

It's an objective fact that Mihawk cannot cut through diamond when only limited to a battle axe. You keep on speaking of 'objective facts' whilst disregarding the proof that I have brought. He has no way of producing the necessary cutting power to cut the defense of a man who stopped his slash produced from the swing of his arms wielding his black sword suited for combat and his overall capabilities with a mere battle axe alone. Mihawk has no way of producing the necessary cutting power with a battle axe made out of 'stone' and without haki. 

First, the battle axe made out of stone would shatter upon contact with his diamond defense assuming Haki hasn't been imbued in it. Secondly, even with Haki imbued in the battle axe, Jozu's defense is far too durable for Mihawk to produce the required power when limited to a weapon that he has no way of utilizing his full power.

If you've followed me up until now, the burden of proof is not on me to provide evidence for the two statements made by Donxixote Doflamingo that Mihawk can cut through diamond with either his regular sword or with a battle axe with both weapons being used without the assistance of Haki when he has failed to display such a feat of cutting diamond on panel. The evidence has been provided on multiple posts of mine. However, I am not required to provide evidence of thereof. He is obligated to provide evidence for his assertions since he was the first one to made those assertions.

It's an objective fact, meaning a fact proven by Oda himself, that Mihawk has no way to cut diamond with a battle axe.

 It should logically be accepted that Mihawk cannot cut through diamond with only a 'battle axe' and without the assistance of Haki, two statements made by a member who gave his input on this thread named Donxixote Doflamingo, when he failed to do so with a weapon more suited for those type of attacks and his overall abilities that cause more destructiveness upon a matter. The lack of this factor won't enable you to cut through diamond.

The necessary factors for cutting a rough matter like Diamond are absent in Mihawk's capabilities when he's limited to just a battle axe. How else would he produce the necessary cutting power with a mere battle axe alone?

It's an objective fact that Mihawk cannot cut through diamond with a mere battle axe and without his Haki. Even with Haki on, I doubt he'd be able to cut it with a battle axe.

Thus far, it seems like a fact that he cannot cut through diamond due to his failed attempt at cutting diamond in Marine-ford so the claim that he can't cut it has more weighting. However, that does not mean that he CANNOT cut diamond as I've stated on multiple repetitions when regarding certain factors like the distance from his opponent, Haki and choice of weapon. It's unknown if he can cut jozu's diamond defense even when regarding those factors because there is no definite proof that he can cut it.


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## Gohara (Feb 10, 2015)

I do agree that saying things as those they are factual even when they aren't is done a lot, and that it is not factually proven that Mihawk can get through Jozu's defense.  That being said, I do think that is very likely considering Jozu struggled blocking a one handed blow from a far away standing Mihawk.  When comparing two of the same blows, one that is point blank range is naturally going to be more powerful than one that is used at long range, at least in the case of techniques like Mihawk's.  Mihawk can also put more force into it using two hands rather than using one.


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## LyricalMessiah (Feb 10, 2015)

Gohara said:


> I do agree that saying things as those they are factual even when they aren't is done a lot, and that it is not factually proven that Mihawk can get through Jozu's defense.  That being said, I do think that is very likely considering Jozu struggled blocking a one handed blow from a far away standing Mihawk.  When comparing two of the same blows, one that is point blank range is naturally going to be more powerful than one that is used at long range, at least in the case of techniques like Mihawk's.  Mihawk can also put more force into it using two hands rather than using one.



It is indeed when factoring certain facts. If you ask me, I believe that Mihawk's chances of cutting diamond are more likely when he is engaging Jozu in close quarter combat with his sword imbued with Haki than when slashing at him from afar. Besides, do you think Mihawk used Haki in his slash directed at Whitebeard? Considering that it was Whitebeard, it seems likely that he used Haki in his slash directed at Whitebeard.  However, the doubt of whether he did use Haki in that slash or not should not be disregarded because he apparently could not cut Buggy... either that or Buggy's Devil fruit bypasses even Haki. Doflamingo failed to damage Crocodile with his strings during the Marine-ford war thus it probably has to do with Oda not having had any intentions of exploiting Haki in the pre time skip.

I also do not think that the slash used on Whitebeard was his strongest attack because I'd be far too early and unreasonable for Oda to have made Mihawk display his strongest attack very early in the storyline and because it was used with one hand, as you said.

Of course, this is all just my opinion


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## Ekkologix (Feb 11, 2015)

Jozu took awhile to deflect a no named attack.

I have a feeling that Mihawk is currently the only swordsman that can cut diamond if he was serious about doing it.

Mihawk mid or high diff at most.


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## Dunno (Feb 11, 2015)

LyricalMessiah said:


> I don't know what your point ranting on about who's the burden of proof and what an objective fact looks like, but I'll entertain you.
> 
> The burden of proof is not on me to provide evidence for his claim that Mihawk can cut diamond with a mere battle axe and without Haki. It is not my work to provide evidence for his assertions. However, even though I am in no way obligated to prove anything, I've provided evidence as rebuttals to his claims that Mihawk can cut diamond with either Haki on or not with a battle axe.
> 
> ...



Ok, I'll try to keep it as simple as possible:

1: Person 1 (Donquixote Doflamingo) makes a claim. In this case the claim is "Mihawk could cut Jozu without using Haki."
2: Person 2 (LyricalMessiah) states that the claim is objectively wrong. 
3: The burden of proof is on Person 2 (LyricalMessiah) to prove that the claim is indeed objectively wrong.
4: If there exists no proof that the claim "Mihawk could cut Jozu without using Haki." is false, then Person 2 (LyricalMessiah)'s statement is false. 

I'm not saying that it's an objective truth that Mihawk could cut Jozu without using Haki. I'm saying that it's not an objective truth that he can't.

This applies to the second statement about the stone axe as well.


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## Dr. White (Feb 11, 2015)

Dunno said:


> Ok, I'll try to keep it as simple as possible:
> 
> *1: Person 1 (Donquixote Doflamingo) makes a claim*.


Nope. This claim needs to have its burden fufilled as well.


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## LyricalMessiah (Feb 12, 2015)

Dunno said:


> Ok, I'll try to keep it as simple as possible:
> 
> 1: Person 1 (Donquixote Doflamingo) makes a claim. In this case the claim is "Mihawk could cut Jozu without using Haki."
> 2: Person 2 (LyricalMessiah) states that the claim is objectively wrong.
> ...



It's a fact that Mihawk was seen incapable of cutting diamond, making any claims that he CAN because of his title objectively wrong, thus handing the burden of proof to the one who made the claim (Donxixote Doflamingo). I have no reason to provide evidence that Mihawk will never be able to cut Diamond as I never made such a claim and the fact that there is reasonable evidence to believe he can't 'thus far'.

If Mihawk could not cut Diamond with the swing with his strongest sword that most likely was imbued with Haki, then how could a swing from a stone axe have any better significant effects on Jozu's diamond without the use of Haki? There's reasonable evidence to believe that this claim of Donxixote Doflamingo 





> Mihawk could cleave Jozu in half with a stone axe.


 is objectively wrong due to facts in the manga leading to the contrary of what he believes. A swing with a stone axe not imbued with Haki would "SHATTER'' upon contact with a rough mineral like Diamond. You're disregarding the necessary facts to determine if it's an objective fact that what he said is wrong or not.

I have provided evidence for my arguments that Mihawk cannot cut through Diamond with his sword, much less cut it with a battle axe if you look at the posts I made on this thread much before Donxixote Doflamingo made those claims not supported by any facts whatsoever. However, I have not stated that it is a definite fact that MIHAWK won't be shown to cut diamond if we consider certain factors such as distance, intent et cetera.

No, you're not understanding anything when disregarding the relevant facts in assessing who has the burden of proof to provide evidence for their claims.

Donxixote Doflamingo was the one to initially make the claims that Mihawk can cut through Diamond without the assistance of Haki when he has yet to display such a feat and is likely that he can't effortlessly without Haki given that he was shown incapable of such a feat in Marineford when his slash failed to put a scratch on Jozu. Thus, by virtue of those facts in Marine-ford, it's an objective fact that Mihawk cannot cut diamond thus far without the use of Haki or with a battle axe not imbued with Haki until further feats of his are shown.

The second inane claim that he made was that Mihawk can cut Diamond with a mere battle axe made out of 'STONE' without the assistance of Haki. He has not provided evidence to support his claims at the time he made those two posts and still has yet to provide evidence. The burden of proof lies on the one who makes a claim. However, even though I questioned the level of objectivity of his claims, I had provided evidence even before replying to his unsupported claims that it was an objective fact that Mihawk could not do those feats he thinks he can. Do you see how self-evident the answers to those questions are when looking at the feats in the Manga? 

My intent with saying that those claims he made are objectively wrong are based on the fact of my awareness of the facts that Mihawk was seen to not be able to put a scratch on Jozu's defense. Plus if you read my posts before his comments, you'd see that I provided proof for why Mihawk cannot cut diamond with his most convenient weapon convenient for his fighting style... making any claims that he can cut diamond with a weaker weapon made out of stone and not imbued with Haki inherently wrong.

It is an objective fact that Mihawk cannot cut through Diamond with a mere battle axe made out of stone as it is also an objective Mihawk that Mihawk has 'YET' to cut Diamond.

The one who needs to provide evidence for their claims is Donxixote Doflamingo, not me. However, I have already provided the evidence necessary.


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## HisMajestyMihawk (Feb 12, 2015)

Mihawk can cut diamond with a plastic spoon


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## Raid3r2010 (Feb 24, 2015)

HisMajestyMihawk said:


> Mihawk can cut diamond with a plastic spoon



Really ? WoW.Never taught the Hawk Eyes is so strong now.


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## Raiden34 (Feb 24, 2015)

Jozu beats him everytime, low-mid difficulty.


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## Raid3r2010 (Feb 24, 2015)

Marco1907 said:


> Jozu beats him everytime, low-mid difficulty.



Why ? The strongest man ain't that strong after all.


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## maupp (Feb 24, 2015)

Jozu blocked one casual air slash from Mihawk, it doesn't mean he can't be cut . 

Obvioulsy mihawk has far stronger attacks then his casual no named air slash. And people should remember that there is a huge difference between air slashes and clean strike from a blade or at least short range. 

In the latest chapter we learned that air slash's power decrease the longer the distance they travel(Zoro explained this when he was pondering about means to end Peeka) and Mihawk was way far away from WB's ship where Jozu intercepted the attack. 

Jozu blocking a casual air slash from Mihawk doesn't mean his diamond body will block clean sword strikes from mihawk let alone powerful named attacks.


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## HisMajestyMihawk (Feb 24, 2015)

Raid3r2010 said:


> Really ? WoW.Never taught the Hawk Eyes is so strong now.



Its okay there are things that I don't know about Mihawk as well. Originally I thought he was as weak as Shanks.

You will learn more as you go on. =)


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## Raid3r2010 (Feb 25, 2015)

HisMajestyMihawk said:


> Its okay there are things that I don't know about Mihawk as well. Originally I thought he was as weak as Shanks.
> 
> You will learn more as you go on. =)



I always viewed both weak though with 3 arms Shanks a tad stronger. 

I posted here like 2 years I guess ? 2011-2012 than I left.Now,im back.


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