# Can Goku beat Pegasus Seiya, Dark Schneider and Sailor Moon now?



## rickthenick (Apr 8, 2018)

So for a long time now (like literally decades) Goku has been much weaker than and them and pitted up against them.

In your opinion can Goku at the end of DBS beat them now?

Reactions: Informative 1


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## shade0180 (Apr 8, 2018)

Schneider possibly.  he tops at galaxy/multi galaxy level.

As for the other two unlikely

SM got upgraded to universal/multiversal also goku is still going to get mind fucked.

Reactions: Like 1 | Informative 1


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## trexalfa (Apr 8, 2018)

Goku sure as fuck is still not beating Seiya. Seiya at max still blitzes all of DBS with ease and still outpowers them too, given he could mildly damage people who would slap DBS' top tiers around pretty easily.


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## egressmadara (Apr 8, 2018)

Sounds like you saw something on comicvine....

he gets no-diffed by Seiya. 
Goku can easily beat majin and DKL DS... but will struggle against current DS because he can resist having his body, mind, and soul being erased. The only option is to kill the whole universe, which would kill Goku as well....
against Sailor Moon.... maybe not,


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## Lordragoon (Apr 8, 2018)

When did the Sailor moon upgrade become accepted? I thought that was still being discussed?


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## Dreams of Tommorow (Apr 8, 2018)

Lordragoon said:


> When did the Sailor moon upgrade become accepted? I thought that was still being discussed?


yea I would like to hear something on this as well


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## rickthenick (Apr 8, 2018)

egressmadara said:


> Sounds like you saw something on comicvine....



So what if I did?


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## Blakk Jakk (Apr 8, 2018)

rickthenick said:


> So what if I did?


I wouldn’t go there if I were you

Reactions: Agree 3


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## Dreams of Tommorow (Apr 8, 2018)

also there is a thread on the front page here that pegs xenoverse/ heroes goku as multiversal in his ssj 3 form. 

given the gap in power between his ssj 3 form and his MUI form, it might need to be considered. that version of goku would stomp DBS as well.


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## Lordragoon (Apr 8, 2018)

rickthenick said:


> So what if I did?



Comicvine downplay DBS a lot and we don't accept their downplay here. Although, goku would lose to Seiya, he would pound Dark schnedier but can't kill him. Sailor moon I am not to sure until her upgrade become full accepted.

Reactions: Agree 3


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## WorldsStrongest (Apr 8, 2018)

Not to derail the thread (although i guess its "kinda" on topic) but whod win between Seiya and SM?

Had a small discussion with a friend awhile back who said SM would win, and i wasnt knowledgeable on SM to call him out on it so i just let it go


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## shade0180 (Apr 8, 2018)

Dreams of Tommorow said:


> yea I would like to hear something on this as well


 sorry I thought it was accepted..

Reactions: Funny 1 | Creative 1


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## Alita (Apr 8, 2018)

He definitely can't beat SM and from what I have heard of DS and PS he can't beat them either.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Muah (Apr 8, 2018)

I dont get it maybe because im not from this culture of battledoms but goku should have been near universe level in red mode. His fight with Beerus nearly ripped apart their universe. He was even stronger in blue but with kaioken 20 he should be able to destroy mutiple universes.

So how strong are these characters that theu can beat Goku who by logic should be able to blast away like 10 universes?

Reactions: Agree 2 | Ningen 1


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## Claudio Swiss (Apr 8, 2018)

Dark Schneider it's a stalemate 
Goku can't put him down for good but he heavily outclass darsh in every stats but hax
Seiya fuck no too fast and hax 
Sailor moon depends on whether not you accept her upgrade

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Claudio Swiss (Apr 8, 2018)

shade0180 said:


> Schneider possibly.  he tops at galaxy/multi galaxy level.
> 
> As for the other two unlikely
> 
> SM got upgraded to universal/*multiversal* also goku is still going to get mind fucked.


no she didn't 
Only universal and even then it's sketchy


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## shade0180 (Apr 8, 2018)

Muah said:


> I dont get it maybe because im not from this culture of battledoms but goku should have been near universe level in red mode. His fight with Beerus nearly ripped apart their universe. He was even stronger in blue but with kaioken 20 he should be able to destroy mutiple universes.
> 
> So how strong are these characters that theu can beat Goku who by logic should be able to blast away like 10 universes?



Multiversal.. for Seiya.

Darsh has this shit where you need to kill him from 3 different planes of existence all at once at the same time if you want him dead.

Sailormoon has a galaxy level mind fuck..

 Basically Shit that Goku can't really deal with.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Crimson Dragoon (Apr 8, 2018)

Seiya would still crush Goku

Reactions: Agree 3


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## Dreams of Tommorow (Apr 8, 2018)

Muah said:


> I dont get it maybe because im not from this culture of battledoms but goku should have been near universe level in red mode. His fight with Beerus nearly ripped apart their universe. He was even stronger in blue but with kaioken 20 he should be able to destroy mutiple universes.
> 
> So how strong are these characters that theu can beat Goku who by logic should be able to blast away like 10 universes?



goku is far and away more powerful than baseline universal. in his strongest form if he wanted to in theory he could evaporate a universe just by releasing a fraction of his power.

his xenoverse/ heroes he’s multiversal to an unknown degree.

I’m not sure about the other people in this thread but I am curious


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## Dreams of Tommorow (Apr 8, 2018)

shade0180 said:


> Multiversal.. for Seiya.
> 
> Darsh has this shit where you need to kill him from 3 different planes of existence all at once at the same time if you want him dead.
> 
> ...



how fast is sailor moon


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## Claudio Swiss (Apr 8, 2018)

As I said seiya stomps him 
Darsh can't do shit to Goku nor Goku could fully kill him 
Sailor moon he can beat depending if you accept her upgrades or not

Reactions: Like 1


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## shade0180 (Apr 8, 2018)

Dreams of Tommorow said:


> how fast is sailor moon


fast enough to travel from one Galaxy to another.


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## Lordragoon (Apr 8, 2018)

If we go by straight OBD victory conditions than a K.O would beat DS. Also for SM if she slower than beerus than MUI goku would obliterate her with one punch since MUI goku would scale to fastest speed feat we have for beerus.


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## Dreams of Tommorow (Apr 8, 2018)

shade0180 said:


> fast enough to travel from one Galaxy to another.



the speed required to do that is far below gokus current speed. anything else?


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## Lurko (Apr 8, 2018)

Xenoverse and Dbh Goku... What the fuck were they thinking powerwise.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Dreams of Tommorow (Apr 8, 2018)

Alita54 said:


> *He definitely can't beat SM *and from what I have heard of DS and PS he can't beat them either.



can you give me some reasons? they aren’t listed here in the thread


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## Fang (Apr 8, 2018)

>multiversal Sailor Moon
What

Reactions: Agree 3 | Funny 1


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## shade0180 (Apr 8, 2018)

Fang said:


> >multiversal Sailor Moon
> What


Well I'm wrong, Sorry.


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## Alita (Apr 8, 2018)

Dreams of Tommorow said:


> can you give me some reasons? they aren’t listed here in the thread



She is faster and has hax that can put him down.


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## Crimson Dragoon (Apr 9, 2018)

Alita54 said:


> She is faster and has hax that can put him down.



doubt the former, can believe the latter


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## Lordragoon (Apr 9, 2018)

What the accepted fast speed feat for sailor moon? I remember beerus has feats in low trillions which goku scales to with MUI.


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## Kurou (Apr 9, 2018)

SM isnt faster than Goku and her universal upgrade never accepted

only one person keeps pushing it anyway


Kakarot back hands her into the kitchen

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 10 | Creative 1


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## Blakk Jakk (Apr 9, 2018)

Even if she were, I don’t think she’s universal+ as Goku is

Reactions: Agree 4 | Informative 1


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## Nep Heart (Apr 9, 2018)

Lordragoon said:


> What the accepted fast speed feat for sailor moon? I remember beerus has feats in low trillions which goku scales to with MUI.



 Actually, Beerus partly scales to Vados' 200 quadrillion c since he's said to be a significant fraction of Whis' speed, a fellow Angel like his sister.

Reactions: Like 1 | Informative 1


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## Gordo solos (Apr 9, 2018)

Alita54 said:


> She is faster


Seriously doubt it. DBS speed feats > SM speed feats and MUI Goku gets the scaling

Reactions: Informative 2


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## Dreams of Tommorow (Apr 9, 2018)

Ampchu said:


> Actually, Beerus partly scales to Vados' 200 quadrillion c since he's said to be a significant fraction of Whis' speed, a fellow Angel like his sister.



at bare minimum than are we looking at 1 quadrillion C for MUI goku speed wise?


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## egressmadara (Apr 9, 2018)

Sailor Moon's best speed feat seems to be . 

unless someone wants to argue for 4d transcending speed sailor moon lol.


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## Nep Heart (Apr 9, 2018)

Dreams of Tommorow said:


> at bare minimum than are we looking at 1 quadrillion C for MUI goku speed wise?



 I'd probably go with a several dozen quadrillions tbh, Beerus is only marginally slower than Whis and Ultra Instinct is hyped up to be God of Destruction tier.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Juub (Apr 9, 2018)

Ampchu said:


> I'd probably go with a several dozen quadrillions tbh, Beerus is only marginally slower than Whis and Ultra Instinct is hyped up to be God of Destruction tier.


MUI is actually clearly beyond GoD tier.

Reactions: Agree 2 | Informative 1


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## DodoNova (Apr 9, 2018)

Hmmmmmmm......

Goku Blitz DS but he can't put him down via Dispel bound

Seiya Stomp Goku 

SM Upgrade to Universal+, Goku can't put her down again via her regen ect
It depends if the 1.45 Quintillon c calc is accepted for the Girls also


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## Claudio Swiss (Apr 9, 2018)

DodoNova said:


> Hmmmmmmm......
> 
> Goku Blitz DS but he can't put him down via _Dispel bound_
> 
> ...


dispel bound can be broken eternal atoms are the ones Goku can't overcome


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## DodoNova (Apr 9, 2018)

Yeah, Eternal Atom is fucking hard to bypass


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## Blade (Apr 9, 2018)

Kakarot can't overpower Darsh's hax but he still can K.O him, casually


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## DodoNova (Apr 9, 2018)

I believe that Darsh can control his astral form nah? (I am not sure)


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## egressmadara (Apr 9, 2018)

DodoNova said:


> I believe that Darsh can control his astral form nah? (I am not sure)


Darsh was in his astral form for the entire time he's been in Hell and that's pretty much the DS used in matches.


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## DodoNova (Apr 9, 2018)

Goku can never touch Astral DS and he can win if DS can Use his hax in astral form on Goku


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## twirdman (Apr 9, 2018)

What kind of hax are required to beat eternal atoms?  I doubt Goku could do it since he hasn't even shown the ability to destroy souls but what about Beerus with Hakai?  It can destroy souls but we haven't seen it interact with an astral form since it's not used in DBS but it seems to have some pretty powerful destruction hax.  If not Beerus could Zeno do it with erase?

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## DodoNova (Apr 9, 2018)

Hakai can Erase Eternal Atom


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## Gordo solos (Apr 9, 2018)

Juub said:


> MUI is actually clearly beyond GoD tier.


^

It’s something Beerus himself hasn’t mastered/completed. MUI Goku > Beerus, definitely in speed/reflexes at least so he gets the scaling


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## Masterblack06 (Apr 9, 2018)

Manga Beerus on the other hand probably slaps gokus shit in even in MUI

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Dreams of Tommorow (Apr 9, 2018)

Masterblack06 said:


> Manga Beerus on the other hand probably slaps gokus shit in even in MUI


manga beerus is ridiculous


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## Steven (Apr 9, 2018)

Cant Goku just Hakai DS out of existence?

Seiya is not even debatable


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## DodoNova (Apr 9, 2018)

Goku Anime can't Hakai
Manga Goku Can Erase but he get stomped here


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## Dreams of Tommorow (Apr 9, 2018)

i wonder how hakai would interact with eternal atoms though. I’m not sure what the result would be


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## DodoNova (Apr 9, 2018)

Hakai work on Spiritual Plane and Physical, and for kill DS you must Erase it on the Astral and physical plane


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## Steven (Apr 9, 2018)

DodoNova said:


> Goku Anime can't Hakai
> Manga Goku Can Erase *but he get stomped here*


Based on?


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## Lurko (Apr 9, 2018)

Who stomps him?


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## DodoNova (Apr 9, 2018)

Acnologia said:


> Based on?


Manga Goku is bit Above FTL and Galaxy level based on the Fusion Zamasu declaration (galactic buster) and possibly Multi Galactic + via SSG and Beerus shockwave


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## SkylineGTR (Apr 9, 2018)

Goku easily backhands both sailor moon and ds like no tomorrow. You can get past EA if your able to destroy the universe, and universal sailor moon is still debated, it was never official. Even if she was universal, Goku is quadrillion x ftl from scaling speed with GoDs since he'd be on their level. With Seiya the answer is obvious.


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## Lordragoon (Apr 9, 2018)

Manga goku in master SSB form can be equal to other god of destruction. GOD level in the manga can universe bust. So MSSB level would be universal as well which is enough to beat Salor moon with out her upgrades.


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## Volt manta (Apr 9, 2018)

Even if EOS Sailor Moon is Universal+, Goku is capable of armbarring low scale universals in just his base form at this current point. Along with his speed being anywhere from trillions to quadrillions (MUI form), the only way SM wins is via hax and/ or a speed upgrade.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Agent9149 (Apr 9, 2018)

Well for now, Goku is faster than EOS Sailor Moon. But that might not help him do to the sheer hax. Passive Power Null and mindfuck. Or for shits and giggles, reflect his attack and seal him in it.


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## Alita (Apr 10, 2018)

egressmadara said:


> Sailor Moon's best speed feat seems to be .
> 
> unless someone wants to argue for 4d transcending speed sailor moon lol.





It seems like high end is the most reasonable here.


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## xenos5 (Apr 10, 2018)

Agent9149 said:


> Well for now, Goku is faster than EOS Sailor Moon. But that might not help him do to the sheer hax. Passive Power Null and mindfuck. Or for shits and giggles, reflect his attack and seal him in it.



Mindfuck doesn't work if you get blitzed before you can use it.

And that power null or reflect needs feats against a character who can fodderize Universe Level characters due to being levels and levels above them (Even Base Goku post BoG was Universe Level+, yet Goku has not only gotten massively stronger in base and other forms since BoG, with Mastered Ultra Instinct he's now got a form stronger than Gods of destruction who could fodderize his best form prior to that).

Unless the power null and reflect have got feats against characters on that level attacks from Goku would be beyond their limit.


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## Lurko (Apr 10, 2018)

Goku is too fast for them, not talking about seiya.


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## Masterblack06 (Apr 10, 2018)

Doesnt goku not know how to do UI, like it at all? IIRC he admitted that it was an accident didnt he?

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Agent9149 (Apr 10, 2018)

xenos5 said:


> Mindfuck doesn't work if you get blitzed before you can use it.
> 
> And that power null or reflect needs feats against a character who can fodderize Universe Level characters due to being levels and levels above them (Even Base Goku post BoG was Universe Level+, yet Goku has not only gotten massively stronger in base and other forms since BoG, with Mastered Ultra Instinct he's now got a form stronger than Gods of destruction who could fodderize his best form prior to that).
> 
> Unless the power null and reflect have got feats against characters on that level attacks from Goku would be beyond their limit.



Passive means automatic. 

And in terms of power, a universal sailor moon would be leagues above base due to the complex nature of her own universe.

We have the main space area, much like our own universe but it is a static universe meaning it’s time is infinite and it’s space may or may not be infinite. We’ll go with a finite space as that’s the low ball. 

Add the corridor that is an infinite void. Then add multiple dimensions which are at least galactic in size and have their own spacetime continuums.


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## dekusolos (Apr 10, 2018)

Am I missing something about DBS, how does Goku actually kill Schneider?  He can't deal with eternal atoms because he doesn't have hakai like Beerus does (unless you count manga I guess, but manga Goku's hakai was hardly like Beerus').

Reactions: Informative 1


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## shade0180 (Apr 10, 2018)

dekusolos said:


> Am I missing something about DBS, how does Goku actually kill Schneider?  He can't deal with eternal atoms because he doesn't have hakai like Beerus does (unless you count manga I guess, but manga Goku's hakai was hardly like Beerus').


Knock out and restrain is a viable win in OBD.

 death is not the only win condition.


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## egressmadara (Apr 10, 2018)

dekusolos said:


> Am I missing something about DBS, how does Goku actually kill Schneider?  He can't deal with eternal atoms because he doesn't have hakai like Beerus does (unless you count manga I guess, but manga Goku's hakai was hardly like Beerus').


Certain forms of DS eventually lose their regeneration ability. The Eternal atoms stop working for Majin DS because of the Judas Pain's existence erasure strain, and that is further amplified when he fuses with DKL. he was about to be erased from existence if he didn't transcend to his new form, which gave him resistance. 

*Spoiler*: __ 







EA can be possibly broken by  which would lead to the destruction of the entire planes themselves which is part of Bastardverse's cosmology.... collaborated by the fact it's stated the Atoms regenerate at the

Reactions: Informative 2


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## saint rider 890 (Apr 13, 2018)

Ningens

Reactions: Ningen 1


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## saint rider 890 (Apr 13, 2018)

Ningens

Reactions: Ningen 1


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Apr 13, 2018)

> spergbattles

> taking anything an SB reg says seriously

Reactions: Agree 5


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## Fang (Apr 13, 2018)

Pretty much yeah

SpergBattles is a joke

Reactions: Agree 8


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Apr 13, 2018)

xenos5 said:


> Mindfuck doesn't work if you get blitzed before you can use it.
> 
> And that power null or reflect needs feats against a character who can fodderize Universe Level characters due to being levels and levels above them (Even Base Goku post BoG was Universe Level+, yet Goku has not only gotten massively stronger in base and other forms since BoG, with Mastered Ultra Instinct he's now got a form stronger than Gods of destruction who could fodderize his best form prior to that).
> 
> Unless the power null and reflect have got feats against characters on that level attacks from Goku would be beyond their limit.




Speed is irrelevant against a non corporeal universal reality warper that is also seemingly acausal.

She could, for example, kill Goku in any point of his life for example.


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## Id (Apr 13, 2018)

I’m not feeling Sailor Moon feats are accepted  outside a selected few. So when it comes to a physical battle he beats down DS and most of the Sailor Scouts. He stops at Seiya.


Seiya is far to Fast, Strong, and the God Cloth allows him to pretty much walk down Goku.


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## EGSage (Apr 13, 2018)

Seiya beats him with his wheelchair and keeps his WWE Shounen Jump Championship belt.

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Gordo solos (Apr 13, 2018)

Seiya is the only one we can solidly say can beat Goku, yeah

Darsh has the hax but he’s kinda lacking in speed. Goku can’t get past the Eternal Atoms though

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Dreams of Tommorow (Apr 14, 2018)

if you destroy a universe doesn’t it collapse the astral and spiritual plane inside of it?


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## Juub (Apr 14, 2018)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> Speed is irrelevant against a non corporeal universal reality warper that is also seemingly acausal.
> 
> She could, for example, kill Goku in any point of his life for example.


I've seen you around downplaying Saint Seiya.

So for you it's Sailor Moon>DBS>Saint Seiya?

99.99% of the web has the opposite order.


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Apr 14, 2018)

Juub said:


> I've seen you around downplaying Saint Seiya.
> 
> So for you it's Sailor Moon>DBS>Saint Seiya?
> 
> 99.99% of the web has the opposite order.



99.99 of the web believes saint seiya is building level.

It is SS>DB>SM, what people fails to grasp is that saints or saiyans are irrelevant tier while the Sailors are top tiers, meaning you would need to compare Serena with ND Cronos (a multiverse abstract, or Saturn that is also the embodiment of a concept) and Zeno which is another multiverse level character with resistance to most kinds of hax and would just deal with her as he did with Zamasu.

The fuck is Goku going to do to Cosmos without hakai or a time ring to not be retconned out of existence?
Why does it matter if he's faster when she doesn't need a body, can just boost her own speed or just screw around with time to get rid of him?

Because Sailor Moon could do things like buff her older self from the future, or send her daughter back in time without being bothered by paradoxes.

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## Fang (Apr 14, 2018)

>Cain tier post

Lol

Reactions: Agree 3


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## Crimson Dragoon (Apr 14, 2018)

Saga would solo Sailor Moon

Reactions: Agree 5


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## God Movement (Apr 14, 2018)

Sailor Moon can beat Goku now? Lol

No. He destroys everybody not named Pegasus Seiya casually. He doesn't even require close to MUI to do so either.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2 | Informative 1 | Disagree 1


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## Blakk Jakk (Apr 14, 2018)

God Movement said:


> Sailor Moon can beat Goku now? Lol
> 
> No. He destroys everybody not named Pegasus Seiya casually. He doesn't even require close to MUI to do so either.


It's because of that one thread Izuku did despite the fact I didn't see you give your approval on it


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## God Movement (Apr 14, 2018)

Imakarum Mirabilis said:


> It's because of that one thread Izuku did despite the fact I didn't see you give your approval on it



Izuku? This happens pretty much every year. These attempts to boost Sailor Moon have happened since Dragon Ball Super started. You would have to be blind, or ridiculously biased to think she's even in the same tier as DBS god tiers.


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## Blakk Jakk (Apr 14, 2018)

God Movement said:


> Izuku? This happens pretty much every year. These attempts to boost Sailor Moon have happened since Dragon Ball Super started. You would have to be blind, or ridiculously biased to think she's even in the same tier as DBS god tiers.




This. I didn't see you nor Nevermind approve anything here so I don't buy universal Sailor Moon


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## Expelsword (Apr 14, 2018)

Is Seiya really "Pegasus Seiya" if he's using a God Cloth?


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## trexalfa (Apr 14, 2018)

Expelsword said:


> Is Seiya really "Pegasus Seiya" if he's using a God Cloth?



What? His God Cloth is still his Pegasus Cloth.


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## Blakk Jakk (Apr 14, 2018)

Expelsword said:


> Is Seiya really "Pegasus Seiya" if he's using a God Cloth?


Yes. His Pegasus Cloth went up to God level from Athena's blood. Read the manga.


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## Expelsword (Apr 14, 2018)

I was trying my best to give him the benefit of the doubt, but it seems even the highest level of semantics can't save Goku.


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## Agent9149 (Apr 14, 2018)

Goku isn't beating EoS Sailor Moon. He doesn't have the hax to do so. The only thing he has going for him is speed at this moment. 

And that's before and after the new universal+ upgrade.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## trexalfa (Apr 14, 2018)

Agent9149 said:


> Goku isn't beating EoS Sailor Moon. He doesn't have the hax to do so. The only thing he has going for him is speed at this moment.
> 
> And that's before and after the new universal+ upgrade.



Redberry Goku still punches her head off before she can bat an eye

Reactions: Agree 3


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## Agent9149 (Apr 14, 2018)

trexalfa said:


> Redberry Goku still punches her head off before she can bat an eye



intangibility, Automatic Power Null, Auto-shields and BFR, Regen, Precognition, cross-time information sending, and other abilities says other wise, say no.

Reactions: Like 1


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## trexalfa (Apr 14, 2018)

Agent9149 said:


> intangibility, Automatic Power Null, Auto-shields and BFR, Regen, Precognition, cross-time information sending, and other abilities says other wise, say no.



SSG Goku being able to remotedly make Beerus take the fight seriously>>>>Sailor Moon. Redberry Goku head punches before she can react.

How does that regen work?

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Agent9149 (Apr 14, 2018)

trexalfa said:


> SSG Goku being able to remotedly make Beerus take the fight seriously>>>>Sailor Moon. Redberry Goku head punches before she can react.
> 
> How does that regen work?



I see you won't be actually taken this seriously so I'll just chill back for a while. And the regen brings people who were erased from existence.


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## Nep Heart (Apr 14, 2018)

Agent9149 said:


> intangibility



 Goku's bypass intangibility on a few occasions, particularly his later fights vs Hit. So, he's got that covered.



Agent9149 said:


> Automatic Power Null



 Unless she has nullified powers above her pay grade, that sounds like a No Limits Fallacy otherwise. It would require her to overpower Goku's ki manipulation. 



Agent9149 said:


> Auto-shields



 Automatic defenses are not that useful if they can't withstand power on Goku's caliber.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Apr 14, 2018)

It's pointless since he can't kill her but she can kill Goku at any point pre-Super, something her time powers allow her to do.


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## God Movement (Apr 14, 2018)

Imperator will never stop pushing this Sailor Moon agenda, when will you people understand this?


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## Agent9149 (Apr 14, 2018)

Ampchu said:


> Goku's bypass intangibility on a few occasions, particularly his later fights vs Hit. So, he's got that covered.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



She power nullified chaos who is universal+ threat. And I'm sure her auto defenses can withstand Goku's power. The Sailor Moon Universe is essentially infinite. I made a post a little higher explaining this. 



God Movement said:


> Imperator will never stop pushing this Sailor Moon agenda, when will you people understand this?



Ok dude.


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## Nep Heart (Apr 14, 2018)

Agent9149 said:


> She power nullified chaos who is universal+ threat. And I'm sure her auto defenses can withstand Goku's power. The Sailor Moon Universe is essentially infinite. I made a post a little higher explaining this.



 Oh, well, if she's infinitely universal, that'd be a serious problem for Goku unless you want to take the World of Void being shaken by Goku's equal as him being on that level too (and that's more like a Raizen's stomach situation).


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## Agent9149 (Apr 14, 2018)

Ampchu said:


> Oh, well, if she's infinitely universal, that'd be a serious problem for Goku unless you want to take the World of Void being shaken by Goku's equal as him being on that level too (and that's more like a Raizen's stomach situation).



I forgot about ol Jiren shaking the world of void. Was that accepted as an infinite power feat for the series?


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## Id (Apr 14, 2018)

I can see DS giving it to any of the Sailor Scouts. So the real battle is Bastard vs SM.


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## Nep Heart (Apr 14, 2018)

Agent9149 said:


> I forgot about ol Jiren shaking the world of void. Was that accepted as an infinite power feat for the series?



 I think it is still tentative because too many disagreements on both sides.


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## Hawk9211 (Apr 15, 2018)

So is sailor moon universal or not?


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## Blakk Jakk (Apr 15, 2018)

Hawk9211 said:


> So is sailor moon universal or not?


God Movement says no

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Fang (Apr 15, 2018)

Hawk9211 said:


> So is sailor moon universal or not?



Signs point to no


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## DodoNova (Apr 15, 2018)

can make a lot of clones
Nani?!


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## shade0180 (Apr 15, 2018)

Someone fucked with the wiki.


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## Blakk Jakk (Apr 15, 2018)

shade0180 said:


> Someone fucked with the wiki.


@Izuku is this your doing?


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## DodoNova (Apr 15, 2018)

I think it's @Nevermind


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## Volt manta (Apr 15, 2018)

Hawk9211 said:


> So is sailor moon universal or not?


Honestly irrelevant. She only really needs the speed advantage here to brush past any form of Goku; she could be building level and still win the match-up to that effect. I would like to hear the arguments against Universal SM, though.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## DodoNova (Apr 15, 2018)

True, SM has a lot of ways to kill Goku easily, Astral Form ect .... For DS, he also has many ways to kill Goku and Seiya......yeah


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## shade0180 (Apr 15, 2018)

DodoNova said:


> I think it's @Nevermind



Isn't there a function in the wiki where you guys can see who was the latest that edited the page, right?


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## Qinglong (Apr 15, 2018)

Imakarum Mirabilis said:


> @Izuku is this your doing?



Yes, Izuku was the last person to edit that page. Multiple times in fact


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## DodoNova (Apr 15, 2018)

shade0180 said:


> Isn't there a function in the wiki where you guys can see who was the latest that edited the page, right?


IDK frankly if it's izuku, asked Nevermind if he agreed with that


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## God Movement (Apr 15, 2018)

DodoNova said:


> can make a lot of clones
> Nani?!



What happened?


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## Blakk Jakk (Apr 15, 2018)

God Movement said:


> What happened?


Izuku diddled around with that profile according to Qing


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## Agent9149 (Apr 15, 2018)

I would want to give Izuku the benefit of the doubt. Nevermind did seem on the side of agreement for the upgrade in the last thread we had over this. I know Izuku wanted to join the wiki and he did make some changes to clean up the profile but he made a mention that he wasn't doing add any of the upgrades. I doubt he'd go just a head and do that anyway after he promised he wouldn't do it. (and i'm pretty sure if he did make the changes he'd have told me). But of course this is the internet and you never know. 

There are five scenarios.

1. Nevermind was the one who added the update. 
2. Someone different than Nevermind or Izuku added the update.
3. Izuku added the update after gaining permission and agreement to do so by Nevermind.
4. Izuku jumped the gun and added the upgrade without clearcut permission to do so. (most likely took Nevermind's agreement in the last thread as permission) 
5. Izuku added the upgrade regardless if he had permission or not.


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Apr 15, 2018)

Hawk9211 said:


> So is sailor moon universal or not?



two posters with agendas are in conflict over the issue.

But...last I looked at the setting they topped out at like Herald/GL class...so...it seems way off the mark.


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## Qinglong (Apr 15, 2018)

all you have to do is check Vesion. Izuki made all the recent updates to the page.


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## egressmadara (Apr 15, 2018)

its been reverted back now so the consensus is that she is not universe+ yet


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## twirdman (Apr 15, 2018)

Volt manta said:


> Honestly irrelevant. She only really needs the speed advantage here to brush past any form of Goku; she could be building level and still win the match-up to that effect. I would like to hear the arguments against Universal SM, though.



Not irrelevent since Sailor Moon doesn't have the speed advantage.  I think Sailor Moon is like trillions while DBS is quadrillions.


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## Agent9149 (Apr 15, 2018)

I do have two pending speed calcs for sailor moon though. One that puts her in the high quadrillions and another that puts her in the low quintillions. I believe endless mike was willing to accept the high quadrillions one.


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Apr 15, 2018)

I don't understand why is speed relevant if she has crazy regeneration and is not bound by space or time?


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## Nep Heart (Apr 15, 2018)

Are there any scans for Sailor Moon having immeasurable speed/being outside the flow of causality?


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## DodoNova (Apr 16, 2018)

I do not know much about SM but his essence (the Silver crystal)


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## Dreams of Tommorow (Apr 16, 2018)

in dbs a certain level of ki can physically punch through hakai 

does that mean anyone in that tier ki wise would have resistance against esoteric erasure from beings outside the show due to equivalence?


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## Dreams of Tommorow (Apr 17, 2018)

Fang said:


> No



so basically that was just PIS in super. got it


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## Masterblack06 (Apr 17, 2018)

idk if this is right but i think it depends on how your being erased from existence. If someones erasing you through time shit and you've never dealt with that before and survived then your fucked.

another thing might be that in order to erase you from existence, they must maintain some kind of spell or incantation. Killing them might save you from that but it wouldn't give you resistance to it

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Dreams of Tommorow (Apr 17, 2018)

Masterblack06 said:


> idk if this is right but i think it depends on how your being erased from existence. If someones erasing you through time shit and you've never dealt with that before and survived then your fucked.
> 
> another thing might be that in order to erase you from existence, they must maintain some kind of spell or incantation. Killing them might save you from that but it wouldn't give you resistance to it



what type of erasure is hakai?

it’s hard to gauge because how do you gauge the potency of erasure?

and for example who would have resistance to that type of erasure or is it a broad spectrum due to the nature of the attack?


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## Masterblack06 (Apr 17, 2018)

Dreams of Tommorow said:


> what type of erasure is hakai?
> 
> it’s hard to gauge because how do you gauge the potency of erasure?
> 
> and for example who would have resistance to that type of erasure or is it a broad spectrum due to the nature of the attack?


You would have to ask someone more knowledgeable than I.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Nep Heart (Apr 17, 2018)

Dreams of Tommorow said:


> what type of erasure is hakai?
> 
> it’s hard to gauge because how do you gauge the potency of erasure?
> 
> and for example who would have resistance to that type of erasure or is it a broad spectrum due to the nature of the attack?



 It erases body and soul, so, limited to those two. If something can survive without both, I'd imagine Hakai would fail to erase them otherwise... like say, a being who can continue existing as an abstract concept or have back-up bodies and souls to replace the ones that got erased.

 Also, Hakai's been demonstrated to erase an entire city at the very least in terms of how great its scope is.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Id (Apr 27, 2018)

How does Sailor Cosmos hold up against DS?


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## Id (Apr 27, 2018)

What about Eternal Sailor Moon vs DS?


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## Id (Apr 27, 2018)

Izuku said:


> How high is he into Multi-Galaxy?
> 
> Eh. Probably Mid to high-difficulty. She has an array of hax and also scales to Galaxia in speed. Also is potentially Universal at her absolute strongest. She took attacks from Chaos and heavily impressed him with her power.



It’s Majin form taps into the power of the Jewel which grants him the power to destroy an entire Galaxy. That’s where the Galaxy level comes from.


But With L01 it’s strength had to increase at least 130x.

As the Adam of Darkness. Well we don’t know. It had to be more powerful than his L01 with non of the Drawbacks but I am not going to throw wild numbers.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Id (Apr 27, 2018)

Wait I stand corrected. 
Majin DS fight agianst Demon Uriel reached a base level of in the Galaxy range.

But when they entered Augoeides their where multiplied by 16,900x.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Id (Apr 27, 2018)

In DS fight with Uriel they ended up destroying the Black Abyss. The energy needed to break the barrier where those equivalent to the creation event or the Big Bang.


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## Nevermind (Apr 27, 2018)

The Sailor Moon upgrade is legitimate, but it doesn't affect the question here much.

Current standings are:

Darsh<Usagi<Goku<Seiya

Reactions: Informative 3 | Neutral 1


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## Iwandesu (Apr 29, 2018)

Didnt imperator got married on 2016 and never came back?


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## Izuku (Apr 29, 2018)

Apparently. Though she was active other places in 2017.


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## Katsuargi (Apr 29, 2018)

Is there anyone in Seiya that's a legitimately debatable match for UI Goku?


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## Divell (Apr 29, 2018)

Muah said:


> I dont get it maybe because im not from this culture of battledoms but goku should have been near universe level in red mode. His fight with Beerus nearly ripped apart their universe. He was even stronger in blue but with kaioken 20 he should be able to destroy mutiple universes.
> 
> So how strong are these characters that theu can beat Goku who by logic should be able to blast away like 10 universes?


That is not how it works. To destroy two universe at once it would need far more than 20x the energy to destroy one. Which is why he is stuck at Universe+. But seeing there is another movie coming pretty soon is obviously this wont be for long.


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## Nep Heart (Apr 29, 2018)

Divell said:


> That is not how it works. To destroy two universe at once it would need far more than 20x the energy to destroy one. Which is why he is stuck at Universe+. But seeing there is another movie coming pretty soon is obviously this wont be for long.



 That's wrong, too, actually. There needs to be actual showings of or scaling to characters who can destroy/create/manipulate at the very least two or more completely isolated universes to qualify for multiverse level.


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## Nevermind (Apr 29, 2018)

I liked Imperator. Hope she comes back.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Izuku (Apr 29, 2018)

Ampchu said:


> That's wrong, too, actually. There needs to be actual showings of or scaling to characters who can destroy/create/manipulate at the very least two or more completely isolated universes to qualify for multiverse level.



Exactly. Most people think "multipliers" and instantly assume somebody with twice the power to destroy one universe could destroy two.

Thats why you got people running around saying Goku is Low Multiverse level and or some Multiverse+ shit.

all Ninjutsu are nullified by it

^ This guy thinks Kid Buu has infinite power.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Divell (Apr 29, 2018)

Ampchu said:


> That's wrong, too, actually. There needs to be actual showings of or scaling to characters who can destroy/create/manipulate at the very least two or more completely isolated universes to qualify for multiverse level.


well yeah and that. But im arguing just for destruction.


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## Izuku (Apr 29, 2018)

I'd dig a Multiversal Goku. If it was legit.

But tbh some of the writers don't even think he can destroy a universe...


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## Ayy lmao (Apr 30, 2018)

Izuku said:


> Exactly. Most people think "multipliers" and instantly assume somebody with twice the power to destroy one universe could destroy two


Uhh nobody in this thread said Goku could destroy a multiverse, or that being 2x stronger than universe = multiversal.


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## creyzi4zb12 (May 1, 2018)

This battle is a bit unfair. After ToP Goku is very weak. Latest Goku as of now can no longer use ultra instinct, is out of practice after ToP, is probably even weaker than Vegeta, plus Goku ryt now only one tenth of his original power at best (when he goes UI). He starts the match crawling on all fours all battered up and weakened from the ToP

Dark schneider, sailormoon and Saint seiya are so fucking screwed.



Katsuargi said:


> Is there anyone in Seiya that's a legitimately debatable match for UI Goku?


Thanatos and Hypnos are prolly the only guys who can take him down

Reactions: Ningen 4


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## DarkLordDragon (May 2, 2018)

If Thanatos and Hypnos can take Goku I don't see how Seiya can't?


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## Blakk Jakk (May 2, 2018)

DarkLordDragon said:


> If Thanatos and Hypnos can take Goku I don't see how Seiya can't?


Thanatos and Hypnos can pretty much solo DBS with their hax

Soulfuckery and sleep induction is something no one in DBS can defend against


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## Cain1234 (May 2, 2018)

Imakarum Mirabilis said:


> *Soulfuckery* and *sleep induction* is something no one in DBS can defend against




A series where the main component of power is the Soul dosen't have the ability to resist it's destruction.
When we have multiple statement confirming most near God tiers can resist soul destruction and actual God's and Angels don't really care about the concepts of life and death. For either themselves or others.

Whis's casual resurrection of Frieza at Beerus's command pretty much spits on all over Thanato as a concept.

And for Sleep Induction we have Roshi's Sleep Induction, which worked on Goku in the past, but was resisted by Ganos.


And Angels donot sleep, at all nor do they die.

Reactions: Ningen 7


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## TYPE-Rey (May 2, 2018)

Who the fuck let Cain back here ? i thought he got section banned.Someone should rectify this.


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## DarkLordDragon (May 2, 2018)

I am not saying that Thanatos or Hypnos cannot beat Goku, but I am saying if they can, why Seiya wouldn't? Seiya is stronger thna Thanatos, much stronger!


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## Ayy lmao (May 2, 2018)

Cain1234 said:


> God's and Angels don't really care about the concepts of life and death. For either themselves or others.


Explain how Goku Black could kill the gods, and why they never returned, if  death isn't something that can affect them. 

Or why Beerus+ Champa, and all other gods, fear Zeno. Or why the angels fear Zeno.  Or how Zeno killed the gods. If the concept of death is beneath them, and their souls cant be destroyed, then you're saying Zeno cant do shit to them right, and neither could Goku black. Which isnt the case for neither.


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## Nep Heart (May 2, 2018)

TYPE-Rey said:


> Who the fuck let Cain back here ? i thought he got section banned.Someone should rectify this.



 Yeah, that's what I want to know. I'm reporting him for exactly that reason.


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## John Wayne (May 2, 2018)

Whomever let him back in did a serious mistake and should reconsider their life choices.


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## Iwandesu (May 2, 2018)

Ampchu said:


> Yeah, that's what I want to know. I'm reporting him for exactly that reason.


Likely did his time wathever it was when he was banned

Reactions: Like 1


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## Iwandesu (May 2, 2018)

Being a bad poster is not a permbannable offense unless he keeps doing so continuosuly  like lol rax

Reactions: Like 1


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## Fang (May 2, 2018)

iwandesu said:


> Being a bad poster is not a permbannable offense unless he keeps doing so continuosuly  like lol rax



Just to give you a history refresher, Anti was such a bad poster the old OBD mods took away his ability to make threads for over a year or something

Reactions: Funny 1


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## TYPE-Rey (May 2, 2018)

I mean, he joined in 2012..and i imagine that back then he wasn't exactly good as a poster either right ? So that's more or less 6 years of shit. The question is ...: How much is too much ?


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## Iwandesu (May 2, 2018)

TYPE-Rey said:


> I mean, he joined in 2012..and i imagine that back then he wasn't exactly good as a poster either right ? So that's more or less 6 years of shit. The question is ...: How much is too much ?


You guys only started to report him (to me) this year
Also i only became a mod this year.
Basically this


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## Gordo solos (May 2, 2018)

creyzi4zb12 said:


> no longer use ultra instinct,


Toriyama wasn’t ready to have Goku stay ahead of Beerus yet



creyzi4zb12 said:


> is out of practice after ToP


We see him train with Vegeta post-credits



creyzi4zb12 said:


> is probably even weaker than Vegeta


That’s not a bad thing 



creyzi4zb12 said:


> plus Goku ryt now only one tenth of his original power at best (when he goes UI). He starts the match crawling on all fours all battered up and weakened from the ToP


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## Cain1234 (May 2, 2018)

Seeing the reaction to my return warms me up.



Ayy lmao said:


> Explain how Goku Black could kill the gods, and why they never returned, if  death isn't something that can affect them.




They *vanished*,  from existance when Blacked killed their respective Kaioshin. They didn't die, Whis even mentioned this.

Not only that, the Beerus from future Trunk's timeline whose Kai died was actually a ok with vanishing from the timeline.



> Or why Beerus+ Champa, and all other gods, fear Zeno. Or why the angels fear Zeno.  Or how Zeno killed the gods. If the concept of death is beneath them, and their souls cant be destroyed, then you're saying Zeno cant do shit to them right, and neither could Goku black. Which isnt the case for neither.





Zeno didn't kill anyone, he erased them. Killing means you have an afterlife. When Zeno erases you your Kaioshin, Universe along with your specific concept of an afterlife is also gone.

It is the equivalent of someone erasing the Universe along with Hades(Afterlife) and Thanatos(Death) order to kill a fly.



And I am not mentioning composite Dragon Ball characters who gets feats from the games along with manga and anime. 

They could easily solo the entirety of the Saint Seiya franchise, being endlessly Multiversal.

Reactions: Ningen 3


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## Ayy lmao (May 3, 2018)

Cain1234 said:


> They *vanished*, from existance when Blacked killed their respective Kaioshin. They didn't die, Whis even mentioned this.
> 
> Not only that, the Beerus from future Trunk's timeline whose Kai died was actually a ok with vanishing from the timeline.



Cain, are you genuinely retarded or something? Serious question.
said killing 

Notice how he doesn't mention anything like "vanish" or "existance".

How the fuck can you interpret it as anything else? Beerus didnt exist in future trunk's timeline. killed Which is why Beerus did nothing to Goku Black.

Do you ever get tired of wanking Dragon Ball? How many blood vessels have you popped yet? How can you be this dishonest?



Cain1234 said:


> Zeno didn't kill anyone, he erased them. Killing means you have an afterlife. When Zeno erases you your Kaioshin, Universe along with your specific concept of an afterlife is also gone.


Ok, you dont die when you are erased then. Zeno can't kill Chichi.


Killing doesnt mean you have an afterlife, please show me in which dictionary or ass you pulled this definition from. Go ahead, I'm waiting.

Are you saying Light Yagami and literally everybody & everything else in the series never killed anyone, never died and never dies? Because the afterlife DOES NOT exist in Death Note.



Cain1234 said:


> It is the equivalent of someone erasing the Universe along with Hades(Afterlife) and Thanatos(Death) order to kill a fly.
> And I am not mentioning composite Dragon Ball characters who gets feats from the games along with manga and anime.
> They could easily solo the entirety of the Saint Seiya franchise, being endlessly Multiversal.



They are as endlessly multiversal as multiversal Getbackers.

Reactions: Like 2 | Winner 2


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## Cain1234 (May 3, 2018)

Ayy lmao said:


> Cain, are you genuinely retarded or something? Serious question.
> said killing
> 
> Notice how he doesn't mention anything like "vanish" or "existance".




Ya no he says vanished due to Supreme Kai's Death.

I shall go to that future...and go to Beerus sama, before he *vanishes *due to the Supreme Kai's *Death,
*
I'll ask him to take care of Zamasu.








> How the fuck can you interpret it as anything else? Beerus didnt exist in future trunk's timeline. killed Which is why Beerus did nothing to Goku Black.


The Gods he killed are the Kaioshin, not the destroyers, as results the the destroyers ceased to exist in that timeline.
This is akin to killing Kami to kill Piccolo.

He died before Black even came into the Universe, it was a plot point in itself. Black needed to find a timeline where he could exist and Beerus's will was not present, the timeline where Shin and Elder Kai died was his only choice.


He killed the rest of the Kaioshin after invading the timeline. Beerus already was erased.



> Do you ever get tired of wanking Dragon Ball?


No, downplayers reaction and rage fuels me.



> How many blood vessels have you popped yet?


None, I have excellent blood pressure thank you very much.




> How can you be this dishonest?



I ain't dishonest, seeing as how I am right. The video I showed shows how Beerus vanished.





> Ok, you dont die when you are erased then.



No, not in dragon ball,erasure and death are two different things. To be erased is to be nothing. To die means to go to another dimension.



> Killing doesnt mean you have an afterlife, please show me in which dictionary or ass you pulled this definition from. Go ahead, I'm waiting



What the fuck does this supposed to mean. Dying and going to an afterlife is something that has existed in literature and history since the dawn of civilization and religion.

"Killing doesnt mean you have an afterlife"

It does in Dragon Ball, heck the dubs goes to great lengths to try to censor death and killing. By repeatedly calling it with the phrase "sent to the next dimension"






> They are as endless multiversal as Beerus is immortal.




So pretty high tier, thank you concession accepted.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Disagree 4


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## shade0180 (May 3, 2018)

iwandesu said:


> You guys only started to report him (to me) this year
> Also i only became a mod this year.
> Basically this


this guys literally writes threats and other shit.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Ayy lmao (May 3, 2018)

Cain1234 said:


> Ya no he says vanished due to Supreme Kai's Death.
> 
> 
> I shall go to that future...and go to Beerus sama, before he *vanishes *due to the Supreme Kai's *Death,
> ...


So you conveniently ignored the video before where he flat out said he dies? Or when Black said he killed the gods?
Also, why do you think vanishing =/ = dying ?


It literally says in the fucking dictionary that dying = ceasing to exist.

Your argument is invalid.



Cain1234 said:


> The Gods he killed are the Kaioshin, not the destroyers, as results the the destroyers ceased to exist in that timeline.
> This is akin to killing Kami to kill Piccolo.



"He killed ALL the gods", guess what, gods of destructions are included, idiot. Because they are GODS. WHy would he need an immortal body to kill kaioshins, when all of them are weak anyway? I know he didnt directly kill them idiot, nice strawman. And nice how you dodged the "killed" part.



Cain1234 said:


> No, downplayers reaction and rage fuels me.


You have it so hard.



Cain1234 said:


> I ain't dishonest, seeing as how I am right. The video I showed shows how Beerus vanished.


 No, it didn't show shit, fucktard. And you are being dishonest, Whis & Black already mentioned how Black KILLED Beerus. Ignoring this wont make you any less dishonest or retarded.

And again, not existing = dying




Cain1234 said:


> No, not in dragon ball,erasure and death are two different things. To be erased is to be nothing. To die means to go to another dimension.


Show me exactly in what chapter or episode this is stated. DO IT. Dont pull this definition from your ass, SHOW ME where this is stated.



Cain1234 said:


> What the fuck does this supposed to mean. Dying and going to an afterlife is something that has existed in literature and history since the dawn of civilization and religion.
> 
> "Killing doesnt mean you have an afterlife"
> 
> It does in Dragon Ball, heck the dubs goes to great lengths to try to censor death and killing. By repeatedly calling it with the phrase "sent to the next dimension"



Nice strawman argument. Nobody in Deathnote can be sent to the afterlife, because it DOES NOT EXIST in the entire series universe. By your retarded definition, they cant die then.  But guess what, they can.

Also you are . Just because it has been like that "since the dawn of civilization" doesnt make it any less false. It. does. Not. No dictionary has dying as " being in the afterlife". Stop pulling shit from your ass.

But guess what they do say? 

The dubs are non-canon, and so is the fucking anime even in jap, you dishonest dipshit. Nothing said in the dubs are relevant.


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## Iwandesu (May 3, 2018)

Fang said:


> Just to give you a history refresher, Anti was such a bad poster the old OBD mods took away his ability to make threads for over a year or something


Reply only bans are used against those who make too much rape threads yeah


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## Iwandesu (May 3, 2018)

Cain1234 said:


> Seeing the reaction to my return warms me up.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Dragonball hell doesnt work like this so who cares lol




> And I am not mentioning composite Dragon Ball characters who gets feats from the games along with manga and anime.
> 
> They could easily solo the entirety of the Saint Seiya franchise, being endlessly Multiversal.


>infinite multiversal
Why

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Fang (May 3, 2018)

iwandesu said:


> Reply only bans are used against those who make too much rape threads yeah



Oh no he never made that many blatant stomp threads, his threads just in general pissed people off enough that he had his thread making abilities taken away.


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## John Wayne (May 3, 2018)

Cain needs to go and stay go.

Reactions: Like 3


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## Nep Heart (May 3, 2018)

John Wayne said:


> Cain needs to go and stay go.



 I'm amused at the fact that practically everyone in the thread is basically calling out Cain for being a lying jackass after he just came back with his usual dishonest tactics in this thread. At this rate, he'll eventually become the next Tonathan, just with Goku instead of Superman.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Funny 3 | Winner 1


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## John Wayne (May 3, 2018)

Ampchu said:


> I'm amused at the fact that practically everyone in the thread is basically calling out Cain for being a lying jackass after he just came back with his usual dishonest tactics in this thread. At this rate, he'll eventually become the next Tonathan, just with Goku instead of Superman.



THE GREAT GOKU DEBATE

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Blakk Jakk (May 3, 2018)

Ayy lmao said:


> Eventually?


He’s approaching there. The guy hasn’t quite had a meltdown on Ton’s level and wrote a bunch of death and rape threats in the OBD convo or in DMs to us

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Ayy lmao (May 3, 2018)

Imakarum Mirabilis said:


> He’s approaching there. The guy hasn’t quite had a meltdown on Ton’s level and wrote a bunch of death and rape threats in the OBD convo or in DMs to us


Thought he already made rape threats/ death threats? Or are you saying Tonathan's were far worse?


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## Blakk Jakk (May 3, 2018)

Ayy lmao said:


> Thought he already made rape threats/ death threats? Or are you saying Tonathan's were far worse?


Ton’s were a lot worse. The guy threatened a lot more people in the OBD convo in the meta, wrote several members like myself a message and really went balls to the walls insane in the now defunct Gosuchat over at the OBD Wiki

Guy was spamming gore and rape porn of lolis


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## Ayy lmao (May 3, 2018)

Imakarum Mirabilis said:


> Ton’s were a lot worse. The guy threatened a lot more people in the OBD convo in the meta, wrote several members like myself a message and really went balls to the walls insane in the now defunct Gosuchat over at the OBD Wiki
> 
> Guy was spamming gore and rape porn of lolis


Dafuq ? No wonder the guy is permabanned


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## Blakk Jakk (May 3, 2018)

Ayy lmao said:


> Dafuq ? No wonder the guy is permabanned


Yeah I feel nothing but contempt towards Ton.

He really crossed a line when he admitted he wanted to wanting to rape Amp’s little sister.

So yeah fuck Tonathan, I hope he’s rotting in prison.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## TYPE-Rey (May 3, 2018)

Yeah that was some bad shit..The thing is Cain is also working his way down to that level. Question is : Do we really have to wait untill he reaches that level  in order for him to get kicked out ?
Me thinks it would be better to just nip it in the bud right now.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Ultimate Deathsaurer (May 3, 2018)

iwandesu said:


> Reply only bans are used against those who make too much rape threads yeah



You can thread ban people you know. It's under thread options. Try it out sometime, preferably on Imagine

Reactions: Funny 5


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## creyzi4zb12 (May 3, 2018)

While I don’t agree (and do not like) with Cain’s tactics.

I must admt that his stand on Goku is correct.

Reactions: Disagree 3 | Ningen 1 | Dislike 1


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## Blakk Jakk (May 3, 2018)

creyzi4zb12 said:


> While I don’t agree (and do not like) with Cain’s tactics.
> 
> I must admt that his stand on Goku is correct.


Using the dub that’s got errors is not valid evidence of anything


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## Cain1234 (May 4, 2018)

Ayy lmao said:


> So you conveniently ignored the video before where he flat out said he dies?



Just like you conveniently ignored mine. Whis was giving a simple explanation to Goku about a GoD's weakness. To simplify it he could have liken it to death.

 In the context of when explaining to Future Trunk, he explained why Beerus vanished, because of both Kaioshin's death in Trunk's timeline.



> Or when Black said he killed the gods?



Gods as in Kaioshin, show me a fucking pic of Black directly killing a Hakaioshin, go on I am waiting.

Killing Kaioshin is how you get rid of Hakaishins. Even the pic of Black killing the Gods each and every single one of them were Kaio. Black never directly killed a GoD.




> Also, why do you think vanishing =/ = dying ?



Because when you die, the mass you had still exists in the Universe. If you die from stabbing your body still exists, if you are burned your ashes still float around the universe which is not the same as being erased across space and time.

 When you are erased by  Zeno or Hakaied by a God not even your matter in the form of energy remains. When a Kai died, their Gods stop existing in that timeline.



> It literally says in the fucking dictionary that dying = ceasing to exist.



Why would the standard definition of Death apply to an being whose existence depends on the state of another being. This applies to ningens not Gods.

Your argument is invalid and irrelevant.




> "He killed ALL the gods", guess what, *gods of destructions are included*, idiot. Because they are GODS.



No he fucking didn't moron,  he didn't kill any of the GoD, he killed their Kaioshin and thus removed them.


> WHy would he need an immortal body to kill kaioshins, when all of them are weak anyway?



Cause Zamasu is weak, he could punch slash for entity and still wouldn't be able to scratch a Hakaioshin. Even with an immortal body, Zamasu would get his ass sealed by a God. He could only ''kill" them if he attacked the Kai.




> I *know he didnt directly kill* them idiot, nice strawman. And nice how you dodged the "killed" part



Concession accepted, I like how you ignored the vanished part.



> You have it so hard



It's just a post on an anime forum bruh, if this seem hard for you, living in reality should be hell for you.



> No, it didn't show shit, fucktard. And you are being dishonest, Whis & Black already mentioned how Black KILLED Beerus. Ignoring this wont make you any less dishonest or retarded.




He "killed" Beerus by killing Shin,
Meaning unless you specifically targeted another person, hitting Beerus is not going to kill him, maybe knock out his ass for a while but he won't die or even take proper damage.
Ignoring this fact isn't going to make you any smarter nor does it make you any less of a lier.




> And again, not existing = dying







> Show me exactly in what chapter or episode this is stated. DO IT. Dont pull this definition from your ass, SHOW ME where this is stated.




"If hit by the energy of Destruction no one will survive unscathed."

"They *won't go to the other world* and their existence will be destroyed"


So ya fuck you buddy.


Oh... and to also prove a point I can  show how a God vanish when their other counter part dies.

Piccolo's body is present, Kami's body vanishes.

So ya shut the fuck up retard.



> Nice strawman argument. Nobody in Deathnote can be sent to the afterlife, because it DOES NOT EXIST in the entire series universe.



The strawman argument is here when you are bringing up Deathnote to a discussion on Dragon Ball.

Dragon Ball has an afterlife, that is all that matters in this discussion.



> By your retarded definition, they cant die then.  But guess what, they can.



Who the fuck is talking about Deathnote, I have never even touched that series. But if there is no afterlife in that seires than that is it. It won't effect the fact that DB characters do have an afterlife, and they can choose what to do with it.




> Also you are . Just because it has been like that "since the dawn of civilization" doesnt make it any less false. It. does. Not. No dictionary has dying as " being in the afterlife". Stop pulling shit from your ass.
> 
> But guess what they do say?




It isn't appealing to tradition at all, where I live from life after death is the norm and standard fact accept by practically over 60% of the world's population. No other stance is accepted.
So ya fuck your cambrian dictionary. In any case I have proven my point, Dragon Ball characters go to the Afterlife when dead and don't when erased.

And speaking of which Zamasu when he kills dosen't just kill he fucking ERASES you like all God's do.


I am a Kaio. I can easily erase you in an instant.

Further cemented by the fact Gowasu's dead body didn't immediately come back with a halo on his head like Elder Kai/ King Kai did when they died.




> The dubs are non-canon, and so is the fucking anime even in jap, you dishonest dipshit. Nothing said in the dubs are relevant.




You don't decide what is canon or non canon you dishonest shitfuck, what ever is official has far greater weight than you dishonest head canon. The official English dubs are infinitely more relevant than the turd you spew out.



creyzi4zb12 said:


> While I don’t agree (and do not like) with Cain’s tactics.
> 
> I must admt that his stand on Goku is correct.




Don't bother, there is a specific group of people who constantly resort of attacking the posters to prove their point, they especially do this when they don't have any real arguments.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Disagree 1 | Ningen 2


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## Ayy lmao (May 4, 2018)

Cain1234 said:


> Just like you conveniently ignored mine. Whis was giving a simple explanation to Goku about a GoD's weakness. To simplify it he could have liken it to death.
> Trunk's timeline.


Why are you still ignoring a dictionary saying being erased from existance = dying?



Cain1234 said:


> Gods as in Kaioshin, show me a fucking pic of Black directly killing a Hakaioshin, go on I am waiting.
> Killing Kaioshin is how you get rid of Hakaishins. Even the pic of Black killing the Gods each and every single one of them were Kaio. Black never directly killed a GoD.


Show me a pic of Black killing other gods than gowasu, why would he need Goku's body to kill other kaioshins when all of them are weak? I know how he got rid of the hakaishins, you fucking idiot. Doesnt change the fact that they *died*, which was my point, retard.



Cain1234 said:


> Because when you die, the mass you had still exists in the Universe. If you die from stabbing your body still exists, if you are burned your ashes still float around the universe which is not the same as being erased across space and time.
> 
> When you are erased by Zeno or Hakaied by a God not even your matter in the form of energy remains. When a Kai died, their Gods stop existing in that timeline.


Basically, Zeno cant kill chichi. Gotcha. Also no, Whis said Beerus DIES if Kaioshin dies. Doesnt matter how often you ignore this. Whis said he DIES. DIES. DIES. DIES. DIES.



Cain1234 said:


> Why would the standard definition of Death apply to an being whose existence depends on the state of another being. This applies to ningens not Gods.
> 
> Your argument is invalid and irrelevant.


 So basically you have no idea what you're talking about? Nice strawman,  next time try to actually read what I type. It might help you. The dictionary makes no mention of "ningens", retard.

You said being erased= / = dying, whereas any dictionary says dying= being erased from existence. Stop being dishonest.



Cain1234 said:


> It's just a post on an anime forum bruh, if this seem hard for you, living in reality should be hell for you.


Yeah cain, this is the part where I'm not unsure if you are retarded or not anymore. I said "YOU" have it so hard, not "I" have it so hard. I was talking about you, not me. How can you get this so wrong, unless you actually are autistic?



Cain1234 said:


> He "killed" Beerus by killing Shin,
> Meaning unless you specifically targeted another person, hitting Beerus is not going to kill him, maybe knock out his ass for a while but he won't die or even take proper damage.
> Ignoring this fact isn't going to make you any smarter nor does it make you any less of a lier.


Which is exactly why Beerus fears Zeno, he's afraid that Zeno is going to not kill him,  knock out his ass for a while or even worse, inflict non-damage to his body. Beerus cant even take proper damage, which is why his brother and he wounded each other last they fought.

Cain, there is no way your dick and blood vessels can keep up with your constant wanking of Dragon Ball, give it a rest.



Cain1234 said:


> "If hit by the energy of Destruction no one will survive unscathed."
> 
> "They *won't go to the other world* and their existence will be destroyed"
> So ya fuck you buddy.
> ...



This literally has nothing to do with what I asked for. Nice strawman btw. Also no, Kami's body does not vanish. He goes to the afterlife, just like Piccolo, your video debunked your own wank. If Kami was truly erased, then the Dragon Balls from Namek wouldn't have been able to resurrect him. Only Super Dragon Balls can recreate his soul and body from nothingness. Meaning, Beerus dies, if Kaioshin dies, going by your own evidence. Deal with it.



Cain1234 said:


> The strawman argument is here when you are bringing up Deathnote to a discussion on Dragon Ball.
> 
> Dragon Ball has an afterlife, that is all that matters in this discussion.


 Not only does it seem like you dont know what a strawman argument is, it seems you dont know what an analogy is? And nice double standard, you brought up religion and human civilization to a discussion on Dragon Ball. I'm responding to that nonsense. More of your dishonesty is showing.



Cain1234 said:


> Who the fuck is talking about Deathnote, I have never even touched that series. But if there is no afterlife in that seires than that is it. It won't effect the fact that DB characters do have an afterlife, and they can choose what to do with it.


Nice, but this has nothing to do with my argument. And please learn what an "analogy" is, before you throw a tantrum next time, thank you.

Your retarded definition of dying is "being in the afterlife", which would mean that Death Note, as well as the real world that we are living in, mr dishonest dipshit, does NOT have deaths occurring. But guess what, that is NOT the case. Try to understand my argument, before making a strawman.



Cain1234 said:


> It isn't appealing to tradition at all, where I live from life after death is the norm and standard fact accept by practically over 60% of the world's population. *No other stance is accepted*.


Do you live in a bubble or some alternative universe? Which asshole did you pull that number from?
Also, now you are appealing to the majority, which is also a fallacy.
"No other stance is accepted", 
Have you ever heard of "science"


Cain1234 said:


> So ya fuck your cambrian dictionary. In any case I have proven my point, Dragon Ball characters go to the Afterlife when dead and don't when erased.



 Cain, you absolute dumbass, according to the dictionary, being erased from existance means DYING. You have no way around this fact. Doesnt matter if the afterlife is real or not, being erased from existance means DYING. It ALWAYS does, you fucking idiot. YOU dont decide what words mean, the fucking DICTIONARY does.



Cain1234 said:


> You don't decide what is canon or non canon you dishonest shitfuck, what ever is official has far greater weight than you dishonest head canon. The official English dubs are infinitely more relevant than the turd you spew out.



Okay okay, you can cherry pick from whatever non-canon version of Dragon Ball to wank the verse, no reason to get that mad. Jeez.


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## Nep Heart (May 4, 2018)

Just report Cain, it's clear that he's being a dishonest prick who's looking for fights to pick with others, both offenses which are grounds that can be considered strikes against him as @iwandesu stated before.


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## WorldsStrongest (May 4, 2018)

Ampchu said:


> Also, Hakai's been demonstrated to erase an entire city at the very least in terms of how great its scope is.


Pretty sure Beerus hakaid half a planet in terms of scope actually 

Tho thats kinda unclear


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## Alchemist of Atlas (May 4, 2018)

Reading this thread, I'll give my two cents.

Goku cannot defeat Seiya, that's a fact. While Usagi has hax to back her up, her DC (though I prefer AP) and speed are subpar to Goku's, so, in my opinion, that matchup is left pending until further proof backs Usagi up. With DS all depends of the context. Since the OP stated beat, I assume this includes KO, well, Goku can KO DS, but cannot get rid of him. If only KO is necessary, then Goku beats DS, otherwise, it's DS who defeats Goku.


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## Iwandesu (May 4, 2018)

Ok this is getting silly.
You cant come back Just to try to bait people into getting banned lol


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