# Dual Rinnegan SM Madara vs Tenseigan Toneri



## Hina uzumaki (Jul 31, 2021)

Location:- Madara vs Gokage
Knowledge:- None
Mindset:- IC with killing intent
Distance :- 50 metres
Restriction:- None.



@Raiken This is for you, lets hear it.

Reactions: Funny 1 | Lewd 1


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## Raiken (Jul 31, 2021)

Hina uzumaki said:


> Location:- Madara vs Gokage
> Knowledge:- None
> Mindset:- IC with killing intent
> Distance :- 50 metres
> ...


Toneri cant sense Limbo. So.... GG

Reactions: Disagree 1 | Optimistic 1


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## Hina uzumaki (Jul 31, 2021)

Raiken said:


> Toneri cant sense Limbo. So.... GG


FR???????
 That's your argument?


Toner has access to Truth seeking orbs which one cannot create/awaken without possessing Six paths senjutsu.

 Six paths senjutsu enables Toneri sense Limbo.




Madara can only bully the likes of Hashirama and below with "Limbo GG".

Reactions: Agree 4 | Disagree 1


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## Raiken (Jul 31, 2021)

Hina uzumaki said:


> FR???????
> That's your argument?
> 
> 
> ...


Gudoudama's only need All 5 Elements+Omnyouton. If you have that, plus good enough Chakra, you can create Gudoudama. Post-JJ Obito could create a Gudoudama despite not having SP-Senjutsu.

Plus his Gudoudama seem to function differently than JJ's and are clearly different to some extent. They wobble around & change shape a lot, giving off the impression of a level of Instability; not perfect Gudoudama.

So no... that alone is not proof of SP-Senjutsu.


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## Fused (Jul 31, 2021)

Replace Hinata with Toneri and the 5 Naruto with Madara and his 4 Limbo.

Reactions: Funny 4 | Winner 1 | Optimistic 1 | Lewd 1 | Coolest Guy! 1


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## Raiken (Jul 31, 2021)

Naruto literally beat Toneri with a CES Punch. He's so fucking overrated.

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## Hina uzumaki (Jul 31, 2021)

Raiken said:


> Gudoudama's only need All 5 Elements+Omnyouton. If you have that, plus good enough Chakra, you can create Gudoudama.


Long story...

(Gudoudama)​
Ninjutsu, Offensive, Defensive, Supplementary, All ranges
User(s): Uzumaki Naruto, Uchiha Obito, Uchiha Madara
*The one who carries the truth-seeking black orbs will be granted the truth of all things!!*

Those who blossomed the Senjutsu of Six Paths wear these black orbs, encompassing the power of all five natures and Yin–Yang.



The Data book already tells us what we need to know.



Raiken said:


> Plus his Gudoudama seem to function differently than JJ's and are clearly different to some extent


Doesn't matter, it's a Gudodama


Raiken said:


> So no... he doesn't have SP-Senjutsu.


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## Raiken (Jul 31, 2021)

Hina uzumaki said:


> Long story...
> 
> (Gudoudama)​
> Ninjutsu, Offensive, Defensive, Supplementary, All ranges
> ...


That databook is pre-the last and solely referring to JJ's & Naruto.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Raiken (Jul 31, 2021)

Btw, I do think Toneri is supposed to be stronger than DRSM Madara. I think Naruto was supposed to fight Toneri in the same form he uses as an Adult. But because the film was made so early. It didnt happen and was animated differently.

If I go off that Toneri is more comparable to Juubito. And would beat this Madara.


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## Fused (Jul 31, 2021)

Sigh. Not doing this, I'll just copy-paste my answer from the other thread (also a stomp in Madara's favour):



Fused said:


> You mean when Madara was completely ignoring these fools and was focused solely on the culmination of the Eye of the Moon Plan? Yes.
> 
> Meanwhile:
> 
> ...

Reactions: Agree 1 | Disagree 1


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## dergeist (Jul 31, 2021)

Fodderneri hasn't shown sensory powers, so he gets clap different by Limbo. The ninja got no diffed by a KCM punch, so not much more to say.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Hina uzumaki (Jul 31, 2021)

Fused said:


> Replace Hinata with Toneri and the 5 Naruto with Madara and his 4 Limbo.


They can't even touch Toneri.  Toneri can fly, Madara and his limbos are stuck on the ground. I guess they one shot Toneri by staring at him in the sky.


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## Fused (Jul 31, 2021)

Hina uzumaki said:


> They can't even touch Toneri.  Toneri can fly, Madara and his limbos are stuck on the ground. I guess they one shot Toneri by staring at him in the sky.


Bro/Sis.


Did you forget that a Rinnegan user can do this?

Reactions: Agree 1 | Dislike 1


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## Hina uzumaki (Jul 31, 2021)

Raiken said:


> That databook is pre-the last and solely referring to JJ's & Naruto


Doesn't matter, Gudodama remains the same or is the last Naruto BSM different from WA Arc Naruto's?

Reactions: Creative 1


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## dergeist (Jul 31, 2021)

Hina uzumaki said:


> They can't even touch Toneri.  Toneri can fly, Madara and his limbos are stuck on the ground. I guess they one shot Toneri by staring at him in the sky.





Deva couldn't fly either


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## Hina uzumaki (Jul 31, 2021)

Fused said:


> Bro/Sis
> 
> 
> Did you forget that a Rinnegan user can do this?


Why don't you show me Madara's flight? Let's see how fast he is.


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## Raiken (Jul 31, 2021)

Hina uzumaki said:


> They can't even touch Toneri.  Toneri can fly, Madara and his limbos are stuck on the ground. I guess they one shot Toneri by staring at him in the sky.


Deva Path couls also levatate to some extent. And the Moons Gravity is incredibly low. It really doesn't take much to escape the moons gravity at all.

It's doubtful he has JJ level flight.


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## Hina uzumaki (Jul 31, 2021)

Raiken said:


> Deva Path couls also levatate to some extent. And the Moons Gravity is incredibly low. It really doesn't take much to escape the moons gravity at all.


Gravity does not matter in the slightest. Toner can fly, gravity or no gravity.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Disagree 1


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## Hina uzumaki (Jul 31, 2021)

Raiken said:


> Deva Path couls also levatate to some extent. And the Moons Gravity is incredibly low. It really doesn't take much to escape the moons gravity at all.


Gravity does not matter in the slightest. Toner can fly, gravity or no gravity.


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## dergeist (Jul 31, 2021)

Raiken said:


> That databook is pre-the last and solely referring to JJ's & Naruto.



Why are you wasting your time with this guy

The statement doesn't say six paths SM is the only way to acquire truth seeking orbs anywhere in this time.

Also, we saw Hinata flying on the moon, so..

And back to Naruto one punch negging him In KCM.


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## Hina uzumaki (Jul 31, 2021)

Isn't there anything else, This limbo argument bores the fuck outta me.

Hey @Raiken @Fused Want me to list the amount of ways Toneri can Rape Madara?

Reactions: Coolest Guy! 1


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## Raiken (Jul 31, 2021)

Hina uzumaki said:


> Gravity does not matter in the slightest. Toner can fly, gravity or no gravity.


You also think Naruto can fly I imagine then?

Which is naturally, dead wrong.


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## dergeist (Jul 31, 2021)

Fused said:


> Replace Hinata with Toneri and the 5 Naruto with Madara and his 4 Limbo.



Damn, nice solo


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## Colmillo (Jul 31, 2021)

The limbo argument is getting tedious.


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## Fused (Jul 31, 2021)

Hina uzumaki said:


> Why don't you show me Madara's flight? Let's see how fast he is.


Okay 






This is where I accept your concession btw.

Reactions: Winner 3


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## dergeist (Jul 31, 2021)

Starkk said:


> The limbo argument is getting tedious.



So you have a legitimate counter to it, like Toneri actually sensing in so called "SPSM?"

If you do, then you have a point. If not then you're relying on what (apart from blind wank) as a rebuttal.


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## Fused (Jul 31, 2021)

Hina uzumaki said:


> Hey @Raiken @Fused Want me to list the amount of ways Toneri can Rape Madara?


There's only one way unfortunately. I'll detail below to you how Toneri can rape Madara:

1) Kishimoto decides that Madara is Outerversal (above the Story/fiction)
2) Madara puts our irl world under Infinite Tsukuyomi
3) You dream that Toneri can rape Madara

I'm afraid that's the only way Toneri beats Madara


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## Raiken (Jul 31, 2021)

Hina uzumaki said:


> Isn't there anything else, This limbo argument bores the fuck outta me.
> 
> Hey @Raiken @Fused Want me to list the amount of ways Toneri can Rape Madara?


Hey like I said...


Raiken said:


> Btw, I do think Toneri is supposed to be stronger than DRSM Madara. I think Naruto was supposed to fight Toneri in the same form he uses as an Adult. But because the film was made so early. It didnt happen and was animated differently.
> 
> If I go off that Toneri is more comparable to Juubito. And would beat this Madara.


The Film is very 'fillerry...' I think a fully Kishified Toneri should be stronger than DRSM Madara.

The film just fucked up having him fight KCM1+SM Naruto and loosing to a single CES punch.


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## Colmillo (Jul 31, 2021)

dergeist said:


> So you have a legitimate counter to it, like Toneri actually sensing in so called "SPSM?"
> 
> If you do, then you have a point. If not then you're relying on what (apart from blind wank) as a rebuttal.


Nope,just stating that madara wankers use limbo as an instant gg and it’s Getting boring.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 1


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## Hina uzumaki (Jul 31, 2021)

Fused said:


> Okay
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Manga panel

Reactions: Funny 1 | Winner 1 | Dislike 1


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## Fused (Jul 31, 2021)

My man @Starkk really said "Guys stop using Limbo argument it's boring  "...

You cannot make this shit up, the absolute state of this place


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## Fused (Jul 31, 2021)

Hina uzumaki said:


> Manga panel



I will if you show me a manga panel of Toneri flying


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## Hina uzumaki (Jul 31, 2021)

Raiken said:


> Hey like I said...
> 
> The Film is very fillerry... I think a fully Kishified Toneri should be stronger than DRSM Madara.
> 
> The film just fucked up having him fight KCM1+SM Naruto and loosing to a single CES punch.


Yeah, I'm bored now. 

Already gone through the limbo argument. They don't have anything else to offer. 

Anyways, Toneri absorbs Madara's chakra from a distance and nukes him with it. 


End of story

Reactions: Neutral 1


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## Colmillo (Jul 31, 2021)

Fused said:


> My man @Starkk really said "Guys stop using Limbo argument it's boring  "...
> 
> You cannot make this shit up, the absolute state of this place


Yes,because your using limbo as an argument against a person who has spsm.
Toneri can sense limbo.


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## dergeist (Jul 31, 2021)

Starkk said:


> Nope,just stating that madara wankers use limbo as an instant gg and it’s Getting boring.


Fair enough, but it's a valid argument.

Limbo according to the databooks can use all the users jutsu. The User can also swap with them to avoid attacks and even take hits to wall opponents etc. That would apply across planets effectively neutering the ST jutsu, so yeah they're going to go for it.


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## Fused (Jul 31, 2021)

Starkk said:


> Yes,because your using limbo as an argument against a person who has spsm.
> Toneri can sense limbo.


Already addressed  Twice


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## Hina uzumaki (Jul 31, 2021)

Fused said:


> I will if you show me a manga panel of Toneri flying.


Is there a manga of the last. Read the novel if you want feats of Toneri flying.


Mismatches lol. I agree, tho.

Toner molest Madara worse than Zetsu and Kaguya did. At least he still had a body at the end.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Colmillo (Jul 31, 2021)

Fused said:


> Already addressed  Twice


By who?Because all I see  Is madara wank.


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## Fused (Jul 31, 2021)

Hina uzumaki said:


> Is there a manga of the last. Read the novel if you want feats of Toneri flying.
> 
> 
> Mismatches lol. I agree, tho.
> ...


So why is your animated content valid, but not mine?

Let alone the fact that I already posted Pain flying and Pain was a worse Rinnegan user than Madara (the actual owner of those eyes).

Your concession is:

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Hina uzumaki (Jul 31, 2021)

Fused said:


> So why is your animated content valid, but not mine?
> 
> Let alone the fact that I already posted Pain flying and Pain was a worse Rinnegan user than Madara (the actual owner of those eyes).
> 
> Your concession is:


Where is Madara's proof? Doesn't exist.

I guess pain can now drop Meteors cuz Madara's Rinnegan GG

FOH man


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## Raiken (Jul 31, 2021)

If Toneri was supposed to be fighting a Full Power Adult Naruto. Then he beats DRSM Madara.

Film being made way too early messed that up though.

Because imo, Adult Naruto > DRSM Madara. It would take 1RG Juudara to beat Adult Naruto.

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## Fused (Jul 31, 2021)

Hina uzumaki said:


> Where is Madara's proof? Doesn't exist.
> 
> I guess pain can now drop Meteors cuz Madara's Rinnegan GG
> 
> FOH man


Except that Madara and not Pain is the original owner who awakened those eyes and is the strongest with those eyes  So it follows that anything Pain can do, Madara can also do it, while the inverse is not true.

Honestly I'm done with you, you're a terrible troll and debated and can't hold my interest. Know that your concession is taken.


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## Hina uzumaki (Jul 31, 2021)

Madara fans just hate to see it. 

No wonder you guys get stuck on this limbo point in Madara vs Ishikki threads cuz you know Isikki molests his strongest version.

Reactions: Like 1


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## dergeist (Jul 31, 2021)

Fused said:


> I will if you show me a manga panel of Toneri flying idiot.
> 
> Insulting me won't fill the absolute vacuum of arguments you find yourself in, you should use your brain before opening mismatches



There are no panels and he's relying on a filler novel



Raiken said:


> If Toneri was supposed to be fighting a Full Power Adult Naruto. Then he beats DRSM Madara.
> 
> Film being made way too early messed that up though.
> 
> Because imo, Adult Naruto > DRSM Madara. It would take 1RG Juudara to beat Adult Naruto.



Toneri got taken out by one punch, no need to overwank that fodder.

Also, I'm more interested in whether fodderneri can absorb chakra from a distance outside of people's avatar mode (I can't recall)


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## Hina uzumaki (Jul 31, 2021)

Fused said:


> Except that Madara and not Pain is the original owner who awakened those eyes and is the strongest with those eyes  So it follows that anything Pain can do, Madara can also do it, while the inverse is not true.
> 
> Honestly I'm done with you, you're a terrible troll and debated and can't hold my interest. Know that your concession is taken.


I'm done wasting my time with you. 

Limbo points countered 

Toner destroys with way superior stats and HAX


Go cry at Kishi's door

Reactions: Agree 1


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## dergeist (Jul 31, 2021)

Hina uzumaki said:


> Madara fans just hate to see it.
> 
> No wonder you guys get stuck on this limbo point in Madara vs Ishikki threads cuz you know Isikki molests his strongest version.



You've not rebuked a single thing, no proof Fodderneri has SPSM or sensory powers of SPSM. 

No proof Isshiti can sense, see or counter Limbo.

I'm not sure why you're trying to play a high and mighty card, especially considering you believe in fanfic chakra link


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## Fused (Jul 31, 2021)

dergeist said:


> There are no panels and he's relying on a filler novel


The guy (I don't even know why I had doubts earlier) literally said that Toneri outstats Madara, when he got oneshot by Urashiki who died to P1 Genin Naruto and couldn't kill Base Jiraiya  This guy is drunk.


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## dergeist (Jul 31, 2021)

Fused said:


> The guy (I don't even know why I had doubts earlier) literally said that Toneri outstats Madara, when he got oneshot by Urashiki who died to P1 Genin Naruto and couldn't kill Base Jiraiya  This guy is drunk.



That makes Fodderneri even weaker


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## Raiken (Jul 31, 2021)

Let's settle down guys. No need for all this baiting/mocking.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Fused (Jul 31, 2021)

Raiken said:


> Let's settle down guys. No need for all this baiting/mocking.


I mean you need to tell that to this guy who called me a "dumbass" just because I demolished his weak point that Madara can't fly, it's not my fault if people here are so butthurt and get riled up so easily instead of just being humble and conceding


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## MYGod000 (Jul 31, 2021)

Madara Fans: Limbo then it GG


Madara haters: Stop using Limbo as an Argument, We can't counter it.

that how I sum up this thread.

Reactions: Funny 1 | Dislike 1


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## Yoshibottter (Jul 31, 2021)

Raiken said:


> Deva Path couls also levatate to some extent. And the Moons Gravity is incredibly low. It really doesn't take much to escape the moons gravity at all.
> 
> It's doubtful he has JJ level flight.


If you have SPS you have flight though I dont know why you would need flight when you have a 50 ft avatar that can slice anything


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## Hina uzumaki (Jul 31, 2021)

MYGod000 said:


> Madara Fans: Limbo then it GG
> 
> 
> Madara haters: Stop using Limbo as an Argument, We can't counter it.
> ...





Hina uzumaki said:


> Toner has access to Truth seeking orbs which one cannot create/awaken without possessing Six paths senjutsu.
> 
> Six paths senjutsu enables Toneri sense Limbo.

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## Hina uzumaki (Jul 31, 2021)

@Raiken give it up breh

TSBs can't be used without Six paths senjutsu.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Mar55 (Jul 31, 2021)

Why is this mismatch still open? Toneri would blitz and one shot him.

@FlamingRain @MShadows Lock this up.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 5


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## Raiken (Jul 31, 2021)

Mar55 said:


> Why is this mismatch still open? Toneri would blitz and one shot him.
> 
> @FlamingRain @MShadows Lock this up.


Get off your high horse and stop crying for mods. Your opinions ain't fact.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 1


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## Mar55 (Jul 31, 2021)

Raiken said:


> crying

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Mar55 (Jul 31, 2021)

Raiken said:


> Your opinions ain't fact.


Nor do they need to be, but anyone with half a brain cell can see this is a mismatch.

Madara is below any legitimate god tier of Naruto/Boruto without the Jubi at his disposal. So he wouldn't stand a remote chance.

Reactions: Like 3


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## Raiken (Jul 31, 2021)

Mar55 said:


> Nor do they need to be, but anyone with half a brain cell can see this is a mismatch.
> 
> Madara is below any legitimate god tier of Naruto/Boruto without the Jubi at his disposal. So he wouldn't stand a remote chance.


Nice false post.

You in reality - "TONERI IS GOD TIER!!! 
*Spoiler*: __ 



"




Toneri got one shot by a CES punch. It's pathetic.

Reactions: Winner 1 | Optimistic 2


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## Mar55 (Jul 31, 2021)

Raiken said:


> false


This would imply Madara can defeat any God Tier head on in this form. You'd be hard pressed to prove such a thing.


Raiken said:


> You in reality -


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## Hina uzumaki (Jul 31, 2021)

All I've heard is Limbo this, limbo that, nothing else. After the Limbo point is countered, they have nothing else to offer.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## dergeist (Jul 31, 2021)

Hina uzumaki said:


> @Raiken give it up breh
> 
> TSBs can't be used without Six paths senjutsu.



Proof for the claim, they can't be used without six paths senjutsu? Also proof for senjutsu giving SM sensory? Sasuke had senjutsu from cursed seal and Jugo, but no sensory?

@Raiken wouldn't you agree


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## Hina uzumaki (Jul 31, 2021)

dergeist said:


> Proof for the claim, they can't be used without six paths senjutsu? Also proof for senjutsu giving SM sensory? Sasuke had senjutsu from cursed seal and Jugo, but no sensory?
> 
> @Raiken wouldn't you agree



I've quoted the DB page, it should be on the first page. 

Curse mark senjutsu =\= Six paths senjutsu. A failure of One cannot be attributed to the other.

Is there any one who had six paths senjutsu and could not sense?


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## dergeist (Jul 31, 2021)

Hina uzumaki said:


> I've quoted the DB page, it should be on the first page.
> 
> Curse mark senjutsu =\= Six paths senjutsu. A failure of One cannot be attributed to the other.
> 
> Is there any one who had six paths senjutsu and could not sense?



Weak argument, senjutsu doesn't equal SM (which grants sensory).

You need to establish senjutsu equals SM first.

And we have example of senjutsu existing without sensory (look at Sasuke with senjutsu as an example), so no proof six paths senjutsu would grant sensory unless the user is confirmed to have SPSM. They are two totally different abilities, even classified as different powers.

You trying to use them interchangeably is dishonesty. I suppose you could put the whole argument to bed by showing Toneri sensing after the fact

Edit: I forgot Sasuke also got six paths senjutsu, yet couldn't sense Kaguya, Kakashi, Obito etc with it either. And we know the six paths chibaku tensei also requires six paths senjutsu. That's another point against your claim.


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## Mar55 (Jul 31, 2021)

Raiken said:


> Toneri got one shot by a CES punch.


Nice edit.

The same punch overpowered a beam that just cut the moon in half. That's a feat better than even Jubi Madara has.

I'm not sure what's so pathetic about that.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Raiken (Jul 31, 2021)

Mar55 said:


> Nice edit.
> 
> The same punch overpowered a beam that just cut the moon in half. That's a feat better than even Jubi Madara has.
> 
> I'm not sure what's so pathetic about that.


*Hollow Moon.*

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Mar55 (Jul 31, 2021)

Raiken said:


> *Hollow Moon*


Oof, it doesn't actually matter.

Toneri also cut through his own barrier that would no sell the collision between the Earth and moon. That's also way better way than anything Madara has ever done.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Optimistic 1


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## dergeist (Jul 31, 2021)

Mar55 said:


> Oof, it doesn't actually matter.
> 
> Toneri also cut through his own barrier that would no sell the collision between the Earth and moon. That's also way better way than anything Madara has ever done.



You mean the same explosion tanker by Sakura, Shikamaru and Sai

Also, no proof it would no sell the collision, unless it has demaotrated that feat, otherwise anybody can make any claim.


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## Mar55 (Jul 31, 2021)

dergeist said:


> You mean the same explosion tanker by Sakura, Shikamaru and Sai


This never happened.


dergeist said:


> no proof


Besides the entire plot of the film, I guess.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## dergeist (Jul 31, 2021)

Mar55 said:


> This never happened.



Sure it didn't  



Mar55 said:


> Besides the entire plot of the film, I guess.



A claim isn't proof, I intend to do x, doesn't equal to y. He even misinterpreted the will of Hmaura, but you go ahead with the fapfic claims.

Such a stonk moon, 8 tails fueled Canon was also going to neg the moon, but you're right


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## Mar55 (Jul 31, 2021)

dergeist said:


> Sure it didn't


The people you refer to are never hit with Golden Wheel Reincarnation. So... It didn't.


dergeist said:


> He even misinterpreted the will of Hmaura


That's relevant?


dergeist said:


> Such a stonk moon,


Why would the moon need to be strong? It's a moon....


dergeist said:


> 8 tails fueled Canon was also going to neg the moon,


Yes... Because it was designed to do so. The same cannon one shot an entire ring of meteors around the Earth.

I'm not sure you know what you're doing,  ut you're not doing it well.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## dergeist (Jul 31, 2021)

Mar55 said:


> The people you refer to are never hit with Golden Wheel Reincarnation. So... It didn't.



Sure they weren't caught in the explosion either and survived it, even though it can no sell the moon.



Mar55 said:


> That's relevant?



It means he hasn't got a clue.



Mar55 said:


> Why would the moon need to be strong? It's a moon....



Of course it's not strong, it's hollow and man made, imagine thinking it's like our moon. If you've got it's strength feats then show us.



Mar55 said:


> Yes... Because it was designed to do so. The same cannon one shot an entire ring of meteors around the Earth.



Irrelevant, it takes only bijuu level power + some human chakra to negative diff it. Yet this Foderneri act is somehow a feat 



Mar55 said:


> I'm not sure you know what you're doing,  ut you're not doing it well.



Sure, your nonsense isn't sounding so sensible under scrutiny.


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## Mar55 (Jul 31, 2021)

dergeist said:


> Sure they weren't caught in the explosion either and survived it,


Are you maybe confusing it for Silver Wheel Reincarnation?


dergeist said:


> even though it can no sell the moon.


This doesn't make any sense.


dergeist said:


> It means he hasn't got a clue.


About a misinterpreted will. This is relevant to him misunderstanding his own power somehow?

Or would you now argue Madara is also cluelessly weak because he also fell for a false will?


dergeist said:


> man made


Lol, it's literally ripped off the Earth itself as a Chibaku Tensei. Not the best argument.


dergeist said:


> strength feats


A celestial body cannot have strength feats. Because it is an inanimate object without arms. 


dergeist said:


> Irrelevant


Literal showcases of power and feats are irrelevant? I guess that's par for the course given you support Madara.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Hina uzumaki (Jul 31, 2021)

dergeist said:


> Weak argument, senjutsu doesn't equal SM (which grants sensory).
> 
> You need to establish senjutsu equals SM first.
> 
> ...


There is blatant distinction between the abilities Sasuke and Naruto got. Madara makes mention of this. 

Naruto awakened Six paths senjutsu and Sasuke the rinnegan. It would have been weird for them to have the same thing.

Another distinction -This time on how they deal with Limbo 

He depends on Naruto  for a sage jutsu.


And finally, he specifically refer to his power and Six paths power, not six paths sage power.






I'm not sure what to make of Sasuke using CT because The databook says Six paths CT can only be used by individuals who awakened six paths senjutsu, it also says Awakening of six paths senjutsu get Flight and truth seekers which Sasuke clearly lacked.



Naruto who awakened Six paths senjutsu had 
-Truth seekers
-Flight
-sensing

Sasuke had none of these.

Toner who also awakened Six paths senjutsu had
-Truth seekers
-Flight
The only thing he didn't display was sensing which he didn't need to as Naruto was not too fast or invincible for him to have to rely on sensing.


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## Mar55 (Jul 31, 2021)

Hina uzumaki said:


> Sasuke had none of these.


Sasuke actually can fly without Susanoo later on. It's kinda strange.


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## blk (Jul 31, 2021)

Raiken said:


> Toneri got one shot by a CES punch. It's pathetic.













You should avoid shitting on other characters (better) feats when your own boy got his ass curbstomped from start to finish since the moment he got introduced 



Goddammit Madara fanboys...

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1 | Winner 1


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## Hina uzumaki (Jul 31, 2021)

Mar55 said:


> Sasuke actually can fly without Susanoo later on. It's kinda strange.


Where? 

Iirc Naruto helped him levitate via Truth seeking orbs


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## Hina uzumaki (Jul 31, 2021)

dergeist said:


> Also, no proof it would no sell the collision, unless it has demaotrated that feat, otherwise anybody can make any claim.


This is actually stated in the novel.


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## Charisma (Jul 31, 2021)

Hina uzumaki said:


> There is blatant distinction between the abilities Sasuke and Naruto got. Madara makes mention of this.
> 
> Naruto awakened Six paths senjutsu and Sasuke the rinnegan. It would have been weird for them to have the same thing.
> 
> ...


You're making things too complicated. Senjutsu is jutsu using sage chakra, just like jutsu is jutsu using regular chakra. Curse Mark Sasuke can use senjutsu, like Black Chidori and Sage Susano'o, because he has sage chakra, but not Sage Mode. Similarly, with Hagoromo's Six Paths sage chakra, he can use Black Chidori.

Kakashi is the same. After getting Obito's chakra, whom absorbed Ten-Tail's host Madara's chakra and was able to use Six Paths Sage Mode before his "death", Kakashi is able to use Black Raikiri.

You can have sage chakra, and thus use senjutsu, without Sage Mode. They are not the same.


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## Dragonus-BB- (Jul 31, 2021)

Toneri for all his anime flash with the chakra draining orbs and that moon cutting scene was matched against a submaximal Naruto.

He fought a Sage KCM Naruto, not even Kurama Link Mode, who had an Avatar of Kurama sepatated from himself.

Given that stealing Hashidama's Sage Mode was Edo Madara's plan to force Obito to relinquish Ten Tails, I'd expect this dream version of a revived Sage Madara with both eyes back to make short work of a character beaten "in just one punch" by Naruto, by his own admission.

(And to clear any suspicions of extreme bias - no I don't think a Sage Edo Madara beats Juubito, his hypothetical trump card must have involved some way to debilitate Obito like the tug of war.)

Toneri gets the benefit of being an anime original villain - stupid powers without stated limits or effects (chakra draining orbs, tenseigan & its chakra mode), but also the drawbacks (usually it's losing to base or movie rasengan, this time it's nakama waifu punch).

Thing is that drawback is pretty severe.
This is not Naruto's strongest form and he outclassed Toneri quite badly. Sage Madara with Rinnegan is stronger than regular KCM, considering that Edo Madara with Rinnegan is confident he can defeat Bijuu Mode Bee & KLM Naruto, and said version of Madara is (nonsensically) weaker than a no-eye'd Madara save for Complete Body Susano'o.

Reactions: Winner 1 | Lewd 1


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## dergeist (Jul 31, 2021)

Mar55 said:


> Are you maybe confusing it for Silver Wheel Reincarnation?



Can't recall it's been a while since I've seen the movie.



Mar55 said:


> This doesn't make any sense.



It wouldn't if you've got cognitive atrophy.




Mar55 said:


> About a misinterpreted will. This is relevant to him misunderstanding his own power somehow?



Yep, as he takes the origins, purpose and abilities lwft behind from minstintepeted will.



Mar55 said:


> Or would you now argue Madara is also cluelessly weak because he also fell for a false will?



False equivalence, Madara was being used to revive Kaguya. And more importantly he had demonstration of the abilities, confirmed by Hogaromo and on top of that was transformed into Kaguya.




Mar55 said:


> Lol, it's literally ripped off the Earth itself as a Chibaku Tensei. Not the best argument.



Which shits on your argument, since we saw how big the CT crater was and we know it was hollow inside. So yeah, up the quality of your argument.




Mar55 said:


> A celestial body cannot have strength feats. Because it is an inanimate object without arms. Seriously, are you dumb?



You are the one tried to say it's strong, when I said stonk moon as a troll. So who is really the dumb one (look in the mirror)?



Mar55 said:


> Literal showcases of power and feats are irrelevant? I guess that's par for the course given you support Madara.



The inability of yours to read past on word is clearly being displayed. Bijou level chakra power is enough to neg the moon. Come back to me, when you square that circle.



Mar55 said:


> Are you seriously suffering from a brain or just naturally dumb?



Another deflection, I guess those are the only two words they taught you in school or rather were used on you




Hina uzumaki said:


> There is blatant distinction between the abilities Sasuke and Naruto got. Madara makes mention of this.
> 
> Naruto awakened Six paths senjutsu and Sasuke the rinnegan. It would have been weird for them to have the same thing.



Nope, Madara confirmed one has the senjutsu (TSBs) and the other Rinnegan, however that doesn't negate senjutsu for the other one.





Hina uzumaki said:


> Another distinction -This time on how they deal with Limbo
> 
> He depends on Naruto  for a sage jutsu.
> 
> ...



So you're saying the black chidori made from seal chakra (power given to him by Hogaromo) isn't six paths senjutsu.



Hina uzumaki said:


> I'm not sure what to make of Sasuke using CT because The databook says Six paths CT can only be used by individuals who awakened six paths senjutsu, it also says Awakening of six paths senjutsu get Flight and truth seekers which Sasuke clearly lacked.



So you will willfully deny the databook which confirms he has senjutsu. It's as clear as fay right there, yet Sasuke doesn't have sensory powers.




Hina uzumaki said:


> Naruto who awakened Six paths senjutsu had
> -Truth seekers
> -Flight
> -sensing



This is wrong, Naruto who has six paths SM which grants sensory and he had senjutsu which allowed him to form TSBs. They're clearly two different abilities and have different entries. No need to try and mesh both together.




Hina uzumaki said:


> Sasuke had none of these.
> 
> Toner who also awakened Six paths senjutsu had
> -Truth seekers
> ...



Sasuke had six paths senjutsu yet never got any of them, not even sensory. That's not really a rebuttal of senjutsu granting them.

Toner gained TSBs, he already had flight iirc, and he had the tension orb or something (likely source of flight is tenseigan).

So far you've not demonstrated Him having sensory and or rather SPSM, which is different to having six paths senjutsu. Here are SPSM powers listed (flight and sensory being two of them), yet no mention of TSBs amongst them. They are a SM power rather a senjutsu power, while Toneri has senjutsu power like Sasuke had. So unless we see them or they're confirmed via another source (databook), we don't randomly start throwing powers about. That is unless they derived them the same way.


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## Aegon Targaryen (Jul 31, 2021)

Toneri hulk smashes.

@Dragonus-BB- And nothing you said changes the fact The Last Naruto has better feats than his younger self even if he is using an inferior mode  

Even in BASE his feats are blatantly insane

Reactions: Agree 1 | Optimistic 1


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## WorldsStrongest (Jul 31, 2021)

@FlamingRain
@MShadows

Please explain to me your philosophy on locking threads

Cuz if this one merits staying open then you guys should just literally never lock a thread ever again

Toneri has better feats than ANY FORM of RIKUDO Madara ffs

Anyone with eyes can tell how this goes down

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Fused (Jul 31, 2021)

WorldsStrongest said:


> @FlamingRain
> @MShadows
> 
> Please explain to me your philosophy on locking threads
> ...


Funny how you didn't have this same chivalrous attitude with the "Danzo vs. EMS Madara" and "BoS Team 7 vs. Hashirama" threads that remain unlocked.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## WorldsStrongest (Jul 31, 2021)

Fused said:


> Funny how you didn't have this same chivalrous attitude with the "Danzo vs. EMS Madara" and "BoS Team 7 vs. Hashirama" threads that remain unlocked.


Link the threads and Ill happily cuss out the mods in those dude  

I aint biased

Ive been telling them to get off their asses and close way more threads than they currently do for fucking months now

If those threads actually exist, and dont have extenuating stips to amp the weaker folk or nerf the stronger folk, then I agree they should be 110% locked immediately

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Raiken (Jul 31, 2021)

Fused said:


> Funny how you didn't have this same chivalrous attitude with the "Danzo vs. EMS Madara" and "BoS Team 7 vs. Hashirama" threads that remain unlocked.


Then we should lock all EMS Sasuke VS BM Naruto threads in future. Because imo BM Naruto murder stomps.

No... They shouldn't lock threads.

They need to stop crying so much. Threads like this dont need locking.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Dragonus-BB- (Jul 31, 2021)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> Toneri hulk smashes.
> 
> @Dragonus-BB- And nothing you said changes the fact The Last Naruto has better feats than his younger self even if he is using an inferior mode
> 
> Even in BASE his feats are blatantly insane


You do realise Kishimoto doesn't script the fights even in the film he actually wrote the script for, right? Outside of the endgame of Vs Fused Momo*, Kishi just told them to do taijutsu and make everything look cool.  So why would weirdass "feats" in a fight he didn't oversee the design of even matter?

*The one part of the Momo fight with actual strategy, the take out his rinnegan for a rasengan finish, was storyboarded by Kishi.

Toneri using a moon slicing blade doesn't make him look awesome, it's just typical filler fight animation choices, where it's style over content. By this same token, a long enough chidori eisou does the same thing, and teen Naruto in VotE2 wasn't penetrated by actual chidori.

Likewise Naruto one punching a guy in some unexplained chakra mode that came from a byakugan upgrade with no explained ability set doesn't make Naruto look way stronger than the war, it makes the villain look pathetic.

Toneri has no hype because he's written like every filler villain ever, he just has the benefit of his base form being Kishi designed, and Kishi giving The Last the okay to be "699.5" because it saves his poor shy soul from having to write any Naruto X Hinata romance in the manga.

Reactions: Winner 2 | Optimistic 1 | Lewd 2


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## MYGod000 (Jul 31, 2021)

Raiken said:


> If Toneri was supposed to be fighting a Full Power Adult Naruto. Then he beats DRSM Madara.



Even I could Agree with this if it was Stated that was a Full power Adult Naruto Toneri was fighting.


Raiken said:


> Film being made way too early messed that up though.





This; Is what I have been trying to tell people.  The Film came out before Naruto Meet Hagoromo during the manga.  Essentially in that Film Naruto, never meets Hagoromo. He doesn't even talk about Meeting The Sage of six paths. 

You have the Author Stating Naruto will be using KCM+SM so as you can see they  Dropped the ball on that film.



Raiken said:


> Because imo, Adult Naruto > DRSM Madara. It would take 1RG Juudara to beat Adult Naruto.


All we are left with is the assumption of how powerful we think a Naruto in 2 years would've gotten.

Nothing in that Film Was out of the Realm of SPSM Teen Naruto from the war. Naruto from the LAst created one Kurama Avatar clone, to fight Toneri Golem. While Teen SPSM Naruto was able to create multiple of those to fight Sasuke.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Dragonus-BB- (Jul 31, 2021)

MYGod000 said:


> The Film came out before Naruto Meet Hagoromo during the manga.  Essentially in that Film Naruto, never meets Hagoromo. He doesn't even talk about Meeting The Sage of six paths.


This assumption is a load of shit. The film came out the month after the manga ended and was announced when Naruto vs Sasuke started/the manga ending was announced.

It's just an inconsistent mess because the whole plot and chakra mode designs were left to studio pierrot. Kishi gave them some ideas for lore and he red penned the script, with his only stated correction being Sakura's farewell to Naruto.

This is the same film that got a canon stamp yet had academy Naruto using kage bunshin. Kishi can't have inspected the script that closely given that this slipped through, but hey, he was still making the manga.

Plus tbh Kishi is not precious like some of us are. He loved the first Naruto movie and Nishio's designs, he doesn't take his own world crazy seriously when it comes to the anime.



MYGod000 said:


> All we are left with is the assumption of how powerful we think a Naruto in 2 years would've gotten.
> 
> Nothing in that Film Was out of the Realm of SPSM Teen Naruto from the war. Naruto from the LAst created one Kurama Avatar clone, to fight Toneri Golem. While Teen SPSM Naruto was able to create multiple of those to fight Sasuke.


Naruto didn't do anything special as his six paths moveset hadn't been fully fleshed out whenever the action scenes were storyboarded, it's just canonised anime filler, so it has all the issues of a Pierrot Original fight. The purpose is to entertain, not to make sense or fit into a niche part of the fandom's obsession with tiering characters.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Alita (Jul 31, 2021)

Limbo is the most overrated shit on this forum I swear. Madara couldn't kill the bijuu or teen rsm naruto with them. They aren't doing shit to toneri even if we assume he can't sense them.

Not like madara would get the chance to use them against toneri. He will be blitzed and killed before he can even utilize them.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Dragonus-BB- (Jul 31, 2021)

Alita said:


> Limbo is the most overrated shit on this forum I swear. Madara couldn't kill the bijuu or teen rsm naruto with them. They aren't doing shit to toneri even if we assume he can't sense them.


Limbo of a one eye'd Madara spanked the bijuu hard enough for him to easily seal them.

Limbo isn't overrated, they're stated to have the same power as the user/access to their full moveset. The only shitter is people assume the Otsutsuki can't deal with them, Limbo is legit an instant win condition Vs anyone without six paths chakra because non-six paths chakra can't even hurt them or detect them.

I'd presume Toneri can see them with his tenseigan and see it as a Hamura adjacent to the rinnegan, but tbh the whole thing is fillery BS given that Hamura had byakugan and no full blooded Otsutsuki has a pair.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Dislike 1


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## Alita (Jul 31, 2021)

Dragonus-BB- said:


> Limbo of a one eye'd Madara spanked the bijuu hard enough for him to easily seal them.
> 
> Limbo isn't overrated, they're stated to have the same power as the user/access to their full moveset. The only shitter is people assume the Otsutsuki can't deal with them, Limbo is legit an instant win condition Vs anyone without six paths chakra because non-six paths chakra can't eben hurt them or detect them.
> 
> I'd presume Toneri can see them with his tenseigan and see it as a Hamura adjacent to the rinnegan, but tbb the whole thing is fillery BS given that Hamura had byakugan and no full blooded Otsutsuki has a pair.



From what we have seen of them feat wise all they have going for them offensively is taijutsu. In yet the usual madara wankers love giving them ass loads of abilities they have never shown. Against other god tiers save for maybe 8th gate gai, they in and of themselves are not a threat. 

They are much more useful in regards to allowing madara to stall or create openings to escape.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Dragonus-BB- (Jul 31, 2021)

Alita said:


> From what we have seen of them feat wise all they have going for them offensively is taijutsu. In yet the usual madara wankers love giving them ass loads of abilities they have never shown. Against other god tiers save for maybe 8th gate gai, they in and of themselves are not a threat.
> 
> They are much more useful in regards to allowing madara to stall or create openings to escape.


The databook entries said they could use all techniques of their caster, and CC2 ran with that idea by giving all of his limbo Complete Body Susano'o.

Plus they most likely have used ninjutsu in the manga - is 1 eye'd Madara so strong physically that he can punch 9 bijuu to the ground? They were probably smacked with a v3 Susano'o.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## MYGod000 (Jul 31, 2021)

Dragonus-BB- said:


> This assumption is a load of shit. The film came out the month after the manga ended and was announced when Naruto vs Sasuke started/the manga ending was announced.



That was the Release Date of the Movie,  They actually Started production on the movie before Naruto and Sasuke meet Hagoromo. the first Trailer for the Movie was in July of 2014, the manga didn't end until November.  The movies Release date Came out in December. 





Dragonus-BB- said:


> It's just an inconsistent mess because the whole plot and chakra mode designs were left to studio pierrot. Kishi gave them some ideas for lore and he red penned the script, with his only stated correction being Sakura's farewell to Naruto.
> 
> This is the same film that got a canon stamp yet had academy Naruto using kage bunshin. Kishi can't have inspected the script that closely given that this slipped through, but hey, he was still making the manga.
> 
> ...


I agree with the last part that the Purpose is to entertain, not the make Sense. 

A lot of Naruto the Last didn't make sense, but it was entertain those.


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## Grinningfox (Jul 31, 2021)

Dragonus-BB- said:


> The databook entries said they could use all techniques of their caster, and CC2 ran with that idea by giving all of his limbo Complete Body Susano'o.
> 
> Plus they most likely have used ninjutsu in the manga - is 1 eye'd Madara so strong physically that he can punch 9 bijuu to the ground? They were probably smacked with a v3 Susano'o.


The DB gives a statement that’s contradictory to the manga . The Limbo we saw had no jutsu .

Also Madara was  in Sage Mode and Sages for sure have the physical strength to slap bijuu

Reactions: Kage 1


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## Dragonus-BB- (Jul 31, 2021)

MYGod000 said:


> That was the Release Date of the Movie,  They actually Started production on the movie before Naruto and Sasuke meet Hagoromo. the first Trailer for the Movie was in July of 2014, the manga didn't end until November.  The movies Release date Came out in December.


The first trailer wasn't July; they hadn't even finished all of the character designs in full by then. They didn't unveil anything until October after the manga's imminent end was announced because it featured 19 year old Naruto.

The first trailer actually declares that Naruto the manga comes to a close after 15 years of serialisation, and announces that the film will show the "blank period." That's not July.

People were excited for the character design leaks and whatnot, I remember very clearly the time period The Last was unveiled in. If it had been July, hoo boy, people would have been talking about it a loooot sooner.

As much as I've crapped on The Last the 2 year timeskip designs are really good (still prefer OG flak jackets though), much better than most of the 700+ redesigns.



MYGod000 said:


> I agree with the last part that the Purpose is to entertain, not the make Sense.
> 
> A lot of Naruto the Last didn't make sense, but it was entertain those.


Because it got the rubber stamp of approval as the official Naruto X Hinata romance, people in the whole "feaaaats" camp take the animation choices way too seriously. Like, the action scenes are broadly speaking whatever the key animators assigned each  cut thought would be cool, not part of some grand design within the Naruto universe.



Grinningfox said:


> The DB gives a statement that’s contradictory to the manga . The Limbo we saw had no jutsu .
> 
> Also Madara was  in Sage Mode and Sages for sure have the physical strength to slap bijuu


The manga never states a taijutsu limitation though, that's just an assumption. The databook lore for the ability had to have come from Kishi, given that Shueisha's team had access to him and this is stated in the press materials, and it was a new ability.

They said they worked closely with Kishimoto's team. Mistakes are made like user lists, but new lore doesn't get cast out unless it's overriden. The manga never says itherwise. The databook 4 Otsutsuki/Divine Tree lore is outdated and redundant, however.

As for Sages vs Bijuu. Yeah err, no. Sage Naruto throws a knocked down Kurama with some effort and time. He doesn't punch Kurama flying with ease. Sage Mode isn't Tsunade/Sakura++.


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## Aegon Targaryen (Jul 31, 2021)

Dragonus-BB- said:


> You do realise Kishimoto doesn't script the fights even in the film he actually wrote the script for, right?



You do realize Kishimoto 



Dragonus-BB- said:


> Outside of the endgame of Vs Fused Momo*, Kishi just told them to do taijutsu and make everything look cool.  So why would weirdass "feats" in a fight he didn't oversee the design of even matter?







Dragonus-BB- said:


> *The one part of the Momo fight with actual strategy, the take out his rinnegan for a rasengan finish, was storyboarded by Kishi.
> 
> Toneri using a moon slicing blade doesn't make him look awesome, it's just typical filler fight animation choices, where it's style over content. By this same token, a long enough chidori eisou does the same thing, and teen Naruto in VotE2 wasn't penetrated by actual chidori.
> 
> ...





Dragonus-BB- said:


> and Kishi giving The Last the okay to be "699.5"



So...you admit The Last is canon. 

In that case, your entire stupid rant was just wasted lol. I can understand trolls trying to purposefully ignore or deny parts of canon they don't like though h

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## Dragonus-BB- (Jul 31, 2021)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> You do realize Kishimoto
> 
> 
> 
> ...


As usual, if someone doesn't have your view they're a troll.

The Last's fights are not scripted by Kishimoto. They also aren't finely detailed in the script beyond results because the nitty gritty is down to the key animators to decide, that is literally how the process works.

So when an anime original production has weird inconsistent stuff going on it's not because of some grand design, there is no consideration for individual battle power, speed or whatever when it comes to designing an animated scene. It's because an animator made a cool looking cut and and it was okayed by their supervisor/the director.

So you can drivel on however much you want that The Last Naruto is "by feats" xyz because womg MOON LEVEL ENDURANCE GAIZ. It doesn't stop Kishimoto from letting Adult Naruto get shish-kebobed by a regular katana.


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## MYGod000 (Jul 31, 2021)

Dragonus-BB- said:


> The first trailer wasn't July; they hadn't even finished all of the character designs in full by then. They didn't unveil anything until October after the manga's imminent end was announced because it featured 19 year old Naruto.
> 
> The first trailer actually declares that Naruto the manga comes to a close after 15 years of serialisation, and announces that the film will show the "blank period." That's not July.
> 
> ...



Yeah,  But they said this:

The Last was first announced at Jump Festa 2012. The film's first trailer premiered on 31 July 2014. It was promoted in the lead-up to the Naruto manga finale in Weekly Shōnen Jump, with information announced weekly. The Japanese film premiere took place on *6 December 2014*.


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## Steven (Jul 31, 2021)

I give it to Madara

Toneri was never impressive

Reactions: Disagree 2 | Optimistic 1 | Dislike 1


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## Aegon Targaryen (Jul 31, 2021)

Wow. I can't believe I woke up to such stupid shit. Oh well, time to clean it up.



Dragonus-BB- said:


> You do realise Kishimoto doesn't script the fights even in the film he actually wrote the script for, right?



Who gives a shit? It's still *canon under the title Naruto 699.5 as you admitted*. Also, love how you're pretending that just because Kishimoto didn't do 100% of certain things they're suddenly not canon.

For your uninitiated ass, *Kishimoto doesn't do everything in his manga either*. In fact, Ikemoto designed some of the P1 characters like Zabuza and did other artwork for the manga. Doesn't change the fact he approved of them, and thus they are canon  

Going by your logic Zabuza's design isn't canon either  

Stay mad  



Dragonus-BB- said:


> Outside of the endgame of Vs Fused Momo*, Kishi just told them to do taijutsu and make everything look cool.





Dragonus-BB- said:


> So why would weirdass "feats" in a fight he didn't oversee the design of even matter?



> Kishi told them to *do Taijutsu*, indicating he's the one whose final approval matters 

> Kish also *literally the guy responsible for Boruto: Naruto the Movie* and its story (which the fights are but a part of, like in Naruto), and very obviously gets to *see and oversee/supervise the product from beginning to end*

> kIsHI mOvIe fEATs dOnT mATtER 

@WorldsStrongest Found someone else for you to neg, get off my back 



Dragonus-BB- said:


> *The one part of the Momo fight with actual strategy, the take out his rinnegan for a rasengan finish, was storyboarded by Kishi



Concession accepted that Kishi literally influenced and could influence even the aspects of the movie you say he had no influence over  

The movie that is still HIS story from beginning to end, no less  

And even if the movie wasn't canon any more, we still have the manga he wrote. 



Dragonus-BB- said:


> Toneri using a moon slicing blade doesn't make him look awesome



Ah, so you're just salty that Madara didn't do it (or Kaguya)? Makes sense  



Dragonus-BB- said:


> it's just typical filler fight animation choices, where it's style over content



This isn't even a good argument lmao. The manga has plenty of filleresque villains and moments, does that mean Kin and Gin aren't canon?  They're literally a worse version of Sora. Team Hebi and their abilities and fights are filleresque too. 



Dragonus-BB- said:


> By this same token, a long enough chidori eisou does the same thing



If someone could make a Chidori Eiso that can cut moon, they'd rightly be considered an absolute monster. A Chidori Eiso that long would easily neg diff Madara's Perfect Susano'o and Juubito's Nunoboko Blade. 

What the fuck even is this downplay attempt?  

We could apply this to nearly anything lmao. Perfect Susano'o wouldn't be nearly as scary if its blades were the size of Chidori Eiso, the Kages would shit on it. Size is part of strength, you don't get to ignore it because it's inconvenient.



Dragonus-BB- said:


> and teen Naruto in VotE2 wasn't penetrated by actual chidori



An actual Chidori which has no Moon level feats (even in The Last it ONLY destroys a pathetic fragment of the Moon)?  

Almost as if Toneri is stronger or something  



Dragonus-BB- said:


> Likewise Naruto one punching a guy in some unexplained chakra mode



Not unexplained at all. Not that this is a good argument, it's no less explained than Naruto's KCM, which is very weird compared to his other Kurama forms and other Jinchuriki and their forms. 



Dragonus-BB- said:


> that came from a byakugan upgrade with no explained ability set



The ability set is clearly showcased in the film, I'm not sure what your problem is. It's certainly better explained than Gengetsu's mirage which even the dude couldn't explain or heck (and the Databooks never explain in regards to it being able to dupe sensors) or Muu's invisibility.

Try again, troll  



Dragonus-BB- said:


> doesn't make Naruto look way stronger than the war



It does when he only gets KOed by a Juubidama level blast in base and literally punches his path through a Moon cutting laser even without his Kurama avatar.



Dragonus-BB- said:


> it makes the villain look pathetic



A villain that literally did far more than Madara ever did in terms of feats?  



Dragonus-BB- said:


> Toneri has no hype



This is actually a lie, he's stated to be "the strongest enemy" in promotional works and IIRC even compared to Madara or even Kaguya in supplementary materials 



Dragonus-BB- said:


> and Kishi giving The Last the okay to be "699.5"



And this pretty much destroys your entire argument. Congrats for shooting yourself in the foot.

Reactions: Disagree 2 | Optimistic 1


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## Dragonus-BB- (Jul 31, 2021)

MYGod000 said:


> Yeah,  But they said this:
> 
> The Last was first announced at Jump Festa 2012. The film's first trailer premiered on 31 July 2014. It was promoted in the lead-up to the Naruto manga finale in Weekly Shōnen Jump, with information announced weekly. The Japanese film premiere took place on *6 December 2014*.


Yeah The Last was in pre-production for ages. I made that point myself, but Platypus pointed out that the sign off dates for the model sheets were June-September. Just looking at Nishio's sheets in his artbook, kid Boruto/Himawari are 18th/20th of September, turban/'wedding' Toneri is 18th of August, normal Toneri is 14th of July, and base Naruto is 19th of June.

They didn't unveil the new designs bar a quick look at Naruto in a 20s teaser until after the manga's end was announced, which was 5 weeks before the manga ended in November.

I recall they had a teaser with 19 y/o Naruto's turnaround, but nothing more until October when the full trailer with "after 15 years of serialisation, Naruto draws to a close."


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## Aegon Targaryen (Jul 31, 2021)

Dragonus-BB- said:


> As usual, if someone doesn't have your view they're a troll



Nah, I consider you a troll because you make trash and objectively disingenuous (even by your standards) arguments.



Dragonus-BB- said:


> The Last's fights are not scripted by Kishimoto. They also aren't finely detailed in the script beyond results because the nitty gritty is down to the key animators to decide, that is literally how the process works



Like I care lol.

The Last is still Kishimoto's story (hence the 699.5 chapter number and his name being there on the movie poster).

That he didn't work on all details is irrelevant as he didn't do that for the original manga either. The fact remains HE supervised, saw, and had input on ALL of it, AND canonized it to boot.



Dragonus-BB- said:


> So when an anime original production has weird inconsistent stuff going on it's not because of some grand design, *there is no consideration for individual battle power, speed or whatever when it comes to designing an animated scene *



This part is entirely your headcanon. Not only is there no proof of this whatsoever, there is also the fact that If Kishimoto had an actual problem with it, he'd have said it or stopped the project.



Dragonus-BB- said:


> *It's because an animator made a cool looking cut and and it was okayed by their supervisor/the director *



And Kishimoto, more importantly.



Dragonus-BB- said:


> So you can drivel on however much you want that The Last Naruto is "by feats" xyz because womg MOON LEVEL ENDURANCE GAIZ.



Stating facts from a canon movie is drivel?

Madara fanboys, man.



Dragonus-BB- said:


> It doesn't stop Kishimoto from letting Adult Naruto get shish-kebobed by a regular katana



Yeah, you're clearly ignorant or unintelligent if you think this is a good argument. That same katana _pierced JUUBI MADARA too,_ chuckles.

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## Aegon Targaryen (Jul 31, 2021)

> Naruto: The Last not canon because Kusanagi pierced Naruto in Boruto

> Ignores that same Kusanagi pierced Juudara effortlessly too 



Like, this is the level of dishonesty Madara fans have descended to. It's pathetic.

@Grinningfox @Code @Altiora Night @ObitoOfTheOrangeMask

Edit: To say nothing of BLACK ZETSU doing so too  



Funny these Madara fanboys completely disregard those two anti-feats though (while pretending Naruto's feats don't count because of anti-feats)

Reactions: Like 2 | Funny 2 | Optimistic 1


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## Grinningfox (Jul 31, 2021)

Dragonus-BB- said:


> The first trailer wasn't July; they hadn't even finished all of the character designs in full by then. They didn't unveil anything until October after the manga's imminent end was announced because it featured 19 year old Naruto.
> 
> The first trailer actually declares that Naruto the manga comes to a close after 15 years of serialisation, and announces that the film will show the "blank period." That's not July.
> 
> ...



Kishi gave it a rubber stamp that means everything in it is stamped .

There’s no middle ground and to do anything else is insane .

Sages are that strong . Naruto easily has strength feats on par with Tsuna.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Winner 1 | Optimistic 1


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## Dragonus-BB- (Jul 31, 2021)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> Wow. I can't believe I woke up to such stupid shit. Oh well, time to clean it up.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Kishimoto storyboarded his own manga, he certainly didn't storyboard The Last, and in Boruto he says he doesn't care as long as it's taijutsu and looks cool, the animators will make it cooler than he could.

The difference between that and the anime is that he's not precious about how the anime portrays fights and never has been as long as it looks cool.

Kishimoto having assistants to draw backgrounds, mob characters and do tedious work like fill blacks, ink symbols on headbands and contribute character designs doesn't mean he suddenly handed off the draft phase of his fights to someone else. This is a different kettle of fish to the realities of anime production, and the anime whenever it's making original content always has this exaggeration to it that you don't see in the manga. Like effect work done to make a scene look cool, such as mountains of rock blowing up when Naruto/Sasuke punch Momoshiki.

You interpret these fights as having meaningful content to analyse and fit into your ratings of character, when they're not designed so carefully in the first place.

I don't care who you think is stronger than who, I do however hate your shitty attitude.

Also The Last is not Kishimoto's story. He says he left it to Pierrot and just red penned the script while he was drawing the manga.

Nevermind you pegging me as some "dishonest Madara fan" when more often than not I argue against Madara's most zealous fans.

I don't give any real serious consideration to animator original fights across the board, The Last being canon doesn't mean Kishimoto supervised those fights and they are perfectly in line with the grand design, it means he okayed it as official because it fills in the story gaps he didn't want to have to write himself, and he doesn't actually give a shit about consistent powerscale nonsense so long as the movie is fun to watch/the fights look cool.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Grinningfox (Jul 31, 2021)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> > Naruto: The Last not canon because Kusanagi pierced Naruto in Boruto
> 
> > Ignores that same Kusanagi pierced Juudara effortlessly too
> 
> ...


Copium is a helluva drug

Reactions: Agree 1 | Friendly 1


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## Dragonus-BB- (Jul 31, 2021)

Grinningfox said:


> Kishi gave it a rubber stamp that means everything in it is stamped .
> 
> There’s no middle ground and to do anything else is insane .


Okay, Naruto could use kage bunshin in the academy years before he stole the scroll.

Reactions: Lewd 1


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## Tsukuyomi (Jul 31, 2021)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> > Naruto: The Last not canon because Kusanagi pierced Naruto in Boruto
> 
> > Ignores that same Kusanagi pierced Juudara effortlessly too
> 
> ...


What can you do man  
Madara is perfect and all his anti feats fall under the category known as "Deus ex machina".
But god forbid we are known as retards if we try to to say the same for vilians other than Msdara

Reactions: Agree 1 | Winner 2


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## Aegon Targaryen (Jul 31, 2021)

Grinningfox said:


> Kishi gave it a rubber stamp that means everything in it is stamped .
> 
> There’s no middle ground and to do anything else is insane .



This. Thank you. 

Imagine calling The Last non-canon but citing the Databooks to prove Limbo can use jutsu (which NEVER happens at any point in the manga)  

The Last is more canon than the Databooks as it's still part of the actual story (a primary source) and not a secondary source and its events are backed up by the sequel and novels.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Optimistic 1


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## Grinningfox (Jul 31, 2021)

Dragonus-BB- said:


> Okay, Naruto could use kage bunshin in the academy years before he stole the scroll.


Didn’t you just say that later info supersedes previous info ??

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Aegon Targaryen (Jul 31, 2021)

Dragonus-BB- said:


> Okay, Naruto could use kage bunshin in the academy years before he stole the scroll.



Yeah, and Killer Bee had Samehada years before he fought Kisame, and Sasuke learned Lion Combo before he even had on-panel time to copy Lee's attacks or train with Kakashi. You think you're funny with this shit?  

Naruto also somehow ended up in the same class as Sasuke and Sakura, his peers by age, in spite of failing the Genin exam three times. 

Imagine trying to use such a flimsy rationale to downplay a canon film

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## Aegon Targaryen (Jul 31, 2021)

Grinningfox said:


> Didn’t you just say that later info supersedes previous info ??



Yep, they tried to pretend Sasuke's blade impaling Naruto is proof The Last wasn't canon  

Even though same blade impaled Juudara just fine

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## Grinningfox (Jul 31, 2021)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> Yep, they tried to pretend Sasuke's blade impaling Naruto is proof The Last wasn't canon
> 
> Even though same blade impaled Juudara just fine


Whatever makes Maddy look best

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Dragonus-BB- (Jul 31, 2021)

Grinningfox said:


> Didn’t you just say that later info supersedes previous info ??


In regards to supplemental information vs the manga and its successor.

The first chapter of the manga which very clearly has Naruto learn kage bunshin from the scroll, which saves him from his graduation exam failure because he can't produce regular bunshin, is not on the cards to fuck up this badly.

Like what does he do if he already knew kage bunshin? Magically get better at it and err, learn no new technique from the scroll Mizuki tricked him into stealing to learn a new ninjutsu from?

The simpler answer is the movie contains a mistake. And if it has such an obvious error it can't have been scrutinised incredibly hard, or the script differs from the finished product/doesn't spell out every detail/differs from the storyboard.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Aegon Targaryen (Jul 31, 2021)

Grinningfox said:


> Whatever makes Maddy look best



Yep. They wanna omit his countless anti-feats (failing to crush Minato and Gaara with a kick, getting negged by BZ from behind in spite of sensing, having his Limbo occupied by weaker Shadow Clones, getting pierced by Sasuke's Kusanagi, and getting kicked around by Naruto without any mecha).

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## Aegon Targaryen (Jul 31, 2021)

Dragonus-BB- said:


> The simpler answer is the movie contains a mistake.



Ah, because "a mistake" invalidates the entire work  

I guess nothing happening in the WA or beyond is canon as Bee legit has a flashback of him carrying Samehada against Minato

Reactions: Funny 1 | Optimistic 1


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## Grinningfox (Jul 31, 2021)

Dragonus-BB- said:


> In regards to supplemental information vs the manga and its successor.
> 
> The first chapter of the manga which very clearly has Naruto learn kage bunshin from the scroll, which saves him from his graduation exam failure because he can't produce regular bunshin, is not on the cards to fuck up this badly.
> 
> ...


It’s Kishimoto’s story he can “fuck up” his story anyway he likes.

If we are going with later info> previous info than let’s do it otherwise it’s a waste .

Reactions: Like 1


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## Alita (Jul 31, 2021)

Ziggy said:


> I give it to Madara
> 
> Toneri was never impressive



He has the best quantifiable feats in the whole damn series so I don't know where you get this idea from. Cutting a moon in half and moving it is more impressive than anything pre jin madara has done.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Grinningfox (Jul 31, 2021)

Alita said:


> He has the best quantifiable feats in the whole damn series so I don't know where you get this idea from. Cutting a moon in half and moving it is more impressive than anything  madara has done.


FTFY

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Dragonus-BB- (Jul 31, 2021)

Grinningfox said:


> It’s Kishimoto’s story he can “fuck up” his story anyway he likes.
> 
> If we are going with later info> previous info than let’s do it otherwise it’s a waste .


Kishimoto did not write The Last. He red penned the script they handed him, which probably said bunshin no jutsu.

There were reports that this was the case years back, possibly based on the novel saying bunshin instead of kage bunshin,  I don't remember or care. If you think the basis of the series/Naruto's story is rewritten without details of how because of an obvious error, I have nothing more to say to you.


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## Aegon Targaryen (Jul 31, 2021)

Alita said:


> He has the best quantifiable feats in the whole damn series so I don't know where you get this idea from. Cutting a moon in half and moving it is more impressive than anything pre jin madara has done.



Yeah, these guys are straight delusional.

Madara caps at country level or so by feats lmao (something @MYGod000 literally argued is Orochimaru level, more or less) and his signature move, Limbo, got occupied by shitty Shadow Clones. Then he got hurt by Chidori Eiso, Kusanagi, and Black Zetsu. Pretty unimpressive.

Toneri outright negged multiple Shadow Clones on-panel and casually cut a Moon in half (AT LEAST country level feat), before tanking essentially the SAME punch Naruto threw to overcome Golden Wheel. He didn't even get KOed, he literally showed he could take out (an admittedly unfocused, but still) Naruto afterward if not for a Hamura amped Hinata.

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## Grinningfox (Jul 31, 2021)

Dragonus-BB- said:


> Kishimoto did not write The Last. He red penned the script they handed him, which probably said bunshin no jutsu.


Kishimoto gave it his stamp of approval we know that without a doubt .

Anything else is conjecture

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Aegon Targaryen (Jul 31, 2021)

Grinningfox said:


> Kishimoto gave it his stamp of approval we know that without a doubt .
> 
> Anything else is conjecture



Facts.

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## Fused (Jul 31, 2021)

Grinningfox said:


> Kishimoto gave it his stamp of approval we know that without a doubt .
> 
> Anything else is conjecture


Okay then. So it's also canon that Kurama separated from Naruto without him dying.


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## Grinningfox (Jul 31, 2021)

Fused said:


> Okay then. So it's also canon that Kurama separated from Naruto without him dying.


Now you’re getting it

Reactions: Agree 3


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## Fused (Jul 31, 2021)

Grinningfox said:


> Now you’re getting it


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## Grinningfox (Jul 31, 2021)

Fused said:


>


Why the long face Fusey-kun??

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Fused (Jul 31, 2021)

Grinningfox said:


> Why the long face Fusey-kun??


Cringe.


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## Grinningfox (Jul 31, 2021)

Fused said:


> Cringe.


Well alright 

Move along then

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Grinningfox (Jul 31, 2021)

Sadly guys Kurama being outside of Naruto doesn’t even go against the Manga.

How do you guys think Bee survived once Hachibi was extracted ??

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Aegon Targaryen (Jul 31, 2021)

Fused said:


>



He didn't even separate permanently though  

It's pretty clear this is just a perk of Naruto and Kurama becoming even better at BM. 

Never mind the fact Naruto's BM was always unusual (never becoming Kurama, but instead unleashing Kurama in a CLOAKED state to fight alongside him). All that's increased is the distance lol.

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## Aegon Targaryen (Jul 31, 2021)

Grinningfox said:


> Sadly guys Kurama being outside of Naruto doesn’t even go against the Manga.
> 
> How do you guys think Bee survived once Hachibi was extracted ??



Yep. Also, Gaara and Shukaku in P1, and even BM Naruto himself throughout Shippuden. The Bijuus are out to play, come The Last the distance merely increased, which can easily be justified as a skill thing

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## Raiken (Jul 31, 2021)

Grinningfox said:


> Now you’re getting it


Why should you accept shit tier writing, especially you know the Mangaka *would* have done differently if he had been fully involved.

It makes no sense for Kurama to be separated from Naruto like that, and it's an example of Kishi's low level of involvement within the details of the film.

It's bad, unfaithful writing and should, as I say to anyone, be taken with a grain of salt, "canon" or not.

Reactions: Disagree 1 | Lewd 1 | Dislike 1


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## Aegon Targaryen (Jul 31, 2021)

Raiken said:


> Why should you accept shit tier writing



Because it's canon  

You don't get to ignore the canonicity of a material just because you don't like its content. It's like arguing the WA isn't canon because it's super poorly written at times (mainly not giving people not called Naruto or his enemies time to shine solo).

It's not even shit tier writing, it's a pretty dope movie all things considered if ratings are any indication. In fact, it's clear your problem with the movie isn't it's writing quality, it's you being unhappy that the antagonists have overtaken your faves.

Reactions: Agree 2 | Disagree 1 | Optimistic 1


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## Aegon Targaryen (Jul 31, 2021)

Raiken said:


> especially you know the Mangaka *would* have done differently



This is literally false. Kishimoto gave the entire thing the green light, he knew full well what the movie was. He worked on it after all AND declared it canon, aka Chapter 699.5.



Raiken said:


> if he had been fully involved



He was, though? 

The story is his doing. The movie has his name on it. The movie is literally given a chapter number, which NEVER happens for any other movie (even the Boruto movie is replaced by manga).



Raiken said:


> It makes no sense for Kurama to be separated from Naruto like that



It does. 

Bee and Gyuki already separated themselves without the former dying. 

Naruto and Kurama ARE separated in BM even in Shippuden. The only difference is how far, which can easily be explained as a matter of superior control.




Raiken said:


> It's bad, unfaithful writing and should, as I say to anyone, makes me salty



Fixed.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Optimistic 2


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## Grinningfox (Jul 31, 2021)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> Yep. Also, Gaara and Shukaku in P1, and even BM Naruto himself throughout Shippuden. The Bijuus are out to play, come The Last the distance merely increased, which can easily be justified as a skill thing


Agreed but look at this 




B is fine

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Aegon Targaryen (Jul 31, 2021)

Like, imagine these dumbass arguments 

"Sasuke sword impaled Naruto so the Last NOT CANOOOOON" 

"bAd wRitInG"  (movie has 82 percent on RT, 4.8/5 on Crunchyroll, and 7.8 on IMDB)

"bAd wRitinG nO cAnOn"  (this doesn't even have any actual basis as an argument even if we assume it was a bad movie lol)

"kId nArUtO sHaDoW cLoNe"  (ignoring all the weird nonsense that happened in Naruto like Bee and even Naruto outright defying the rule Jins die upon losing their Bijuus, Bee having Samehada years before even meeting Kisame, etc etc)

Reactions: Optimistic 1 | Dislike 1


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## Aegon Targaryen (Jul 31, 2021)

Grinningfox said:


> Agreed but look at this
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yep. Bee literally survived the sealing process, the one stated to kill every Jin. 

oUTlIeR

Reactions: Optimistic 2


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## TraderJoe (Jul 31, 2021)

TLDR:
Group A: Toneri low diffs
*Group B: Limbo GG*
Group A: Toneri can create TSO ergo he has Six Paths Senjutsu thus he can sense Limbo. GG.
*Group B: What is the evidence that Six Path Senjutsu gives the sensory abilities to detect Limbo and not Six Path Sage Mode?*
Group A: Limbo is overrated and tedious. Stop wanking Limbo. Mods please lock this.
Group A; Toneri cut the moon.
*Group B: The moon was made via Six Paths Chibaku Tensei, any evidence this celestial body can be scaled to our moon? What durability feats does it have?*
Group A: Mods why is this still open?

Reactions: Winner 1 | Disagree 1 | Optimistic 1 | Lewd 1 | Dislike 1


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## Aegon Targaryen (Jul 31, 2021)

TraderJoe said:


> TLDR:
> Group A: Toneri low diffs
> *Group B: Limbo GG*
> Group A: Toneri can create TSO ergo he has Six Paths Senjutsu thus he can sense Limbo. GG.
> ...



Love how your dishonest ass ignored all the arguments (based on canon) we made against each and every point y'all made

Reactions: Agree 1 | Optimistic 1


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## Aegon Targaryen (Jul 31, 2021)

Lol at thinking Limbo will matter against someone who negged Naruto's clones on panel (something Madara could NOT do), and lol at thinking Tenseigan Chakra Mode lacks the ability to see Limbo when it can manifest TSBs independently, proof of Six Paths Sage Mode, which by default has extreme sensing abilities.

Also, the argument the Moon can't be scaled to ours is some dumb horseshit lmao. Technically the burden of proof is on you to prove it can't be scaled to ours, given Chibaku Tensei is far stronger than the materials it's made of (the core being strong enough to rip multiple mountains apart, then hold the fragments together tightly to form the sphere).

Try again, troll

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## Fused (Jul 31, 2021)

TraderJoe said:


> TLDR:
> Group A: Toneri low diffs
> *Group B: Limbo GG*
> Group A: Toneri can create TSO ergo he has Six Paths Senjutsu thus he can sense Limbo. GG.
> ...


You forgot this gem:

"The Boruto Kage individually scale above Juudara"


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## Raiken (Jul 31, 2021)

Fused said:


> You forgot this gem:
> 
> "The Boruto Kage individually scale above Juudara"


I think his point was both arguments were garbage. But it is hard to tell haha.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Grinningfox (Jul 31, 2021)

TraderJoe said:


> TLDR:
> Group A: Toneri low diffs
> *Group B: Limbo GG*
> Group A: Toneri can create TSO ergo he has Six Paths Senjutsu thus he can sense Limbo. GG.
> ...


This guy really said what kind of durability feats does the moon have ….

You guys must slowly be going insane

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 2


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## Aegon Targaryen (Jul 31, 2021)

Grinningfox said:


> This guy really said what kind of durability feats does the moon have ….
> 
> You guys must slowly be going insane



Not just the Moon, Six Paths Chibaku Tensei. The technique that entered the series sealing KN6 Naruto and negging Bijuudama from him.

Actually, that makes Dragonus's argument (bIg cHidOrI cOuld dO iT) even worse lol.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Optimistic 1


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## Alita (Jul 31, 2021)

Grinningfox said:


> Sadly guys Kurama being outside of Naruto doesn’t even go against the Manga.
> 
> How do you guys think Bee survived once Hachibi was extracted ??



Exactly. People act like there wasn't nonsensical/bad writing like this in the war arc. But raiken doesn't pretend the war arc is suddenly non canon.

Reactions: Winner 3


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## Aegon Targaryen (Jul 31, 2021)

I do wish Boruto wasn't canon, but that's not up to me lol. I'm not even talking about the powerscaling so much as the characters and world being utterly boring. Kara is far worse than Akatsuki and Orochimaru, as are Momo and Kin. The new kids aren't nearly as likable or interesting as the old ones.

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## MYGod000 (Jul 31, 2021)

Wait Dude Still Strawman  argument me Even after I explained It said Oro could raze a small Country over time, not in one Shot?

LMFAO

Now, If you straw man them they get upset and insult you and beg you not to straw man him. Oroch statement was clearly meant to be over time not in one shot.


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## Grinningfox (Jul 31, 2021)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> I do wish Boruto wasn't canon, but that's not up to me lol. I'm not even talking about the powerscaling so much as the characters and world being utterly boring. Kara is far worse than Akatsuki and Orochimaru, as are Momo and Kin. The new kids aren't nearly as likable or interesting as the old ones.


This as well

I like some of the kids and Kara has some upside but overall it’s pretty mid and I’m fine with that but even if I wasn’t it doesn’t matter.

Canon isn’t just what you like

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2


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## MYGod000 (Jul 31, 2021)

Fused said:


> You forgot this gem:
> 
> *"The Boruto Kage individually scale above Juudara"*


I'll never forget that, I actually had that in my sign Because I had remember how dumb that argument was, but people started crying to the mods about it so i Just decided to take it down and My wall of failed arguments.

I think Someone on Another site had said Edia Could  Make the Ten tails Love her, but this takes the cake.

I've also heard people say those Kages that ambushed Momoshiki could do the same to Kaguya.



anyway Madara wins this Fight Toneri has no way to deal with Limbo, His fighting style isn't even as good as Naruto's.


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## Bob74h (Jul 31, 2021)

Urashiki stomped toneri 


With a stronger form of urashiki going on to get negged by boruto and naruto with boruto himself being fodder to naruto


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## Bob74h (Jul 31, 2021)

Grinningfox said:


> Canon isn’t just what you like


Yet people have said exactly that numerous times with type-rei going as far to say it's about eliminating questionable material from discussions


With toxues directly saying it's whatever the majority of the fandom considers as canon


With the same user going on to say that canon as a idea was made to kill discussion on the anime


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## Bob74h (Jul 31, 2021)

Grinningfox said:


> Kishimoto gave it his stamp of approval we know that without a doubt .
> 
> Anything else is conjecture


He by definition has to give his approval for every product as without it bandai and studio pierrot wouldt have even legally been able to make licensed naruto games and media


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## ARGUS (Jul 31, 2021)

DRSM madara >>> VOTE madara > 100% BSM kyuubi > toneri

Reactions: Lewd 1 | Dislike 2


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## Aegon Targaryen (Aug 1, 2021)

Grinningfox said:


> This as well
> 
> I like some of the kids and Kara has some upside but overall it’s pretty mid and I’m fine with that but even if I wasn’t it doesn’t matter.
> 
> Canon isn’t just what you like



This.

@Artistwannabe You should consider putting "canon isn't just what you like" on the forum banner.

Reactions: Funny 1 | Optimistic 1


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## Altiora Night (Aug 1, 2021)

Toneri destroys him. Mismatch.

Reactions: Agree 4


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## MYGod000 (Aug 1, 2021)

Again Madara will Offer The choice to Toneri.

A) To live an empty Life

B) Or die a Meaningful Death


especially since He is spending the next 10000 years trapped  like a lonely fool.


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## Aegon Targaryen (Aug 1, 2021)

ARGUS said:


> Toneri >> Juudara >>>> DRSM Madara >>> 100% BSM Kurama > VOTE Madara > 50% BSM Kurama



Fixed.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Optimistic 1


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## Fused (Aug 1, 2021)

MYGod000 said:


> I think Someone on Another site had said Edia Could Make the Ten tails Love her, but this takes the cake.


Bestiality, that's gross

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Serene Grace (Aug 1, 2021)

The Naruto that beat Madara is weaker than Rikudo Naruto, Rikudo Naruto pretty much outright stated he couldn’t defeat Madara by himself

Madara should win mid-high diff

Reactions: Lewd 1


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## ARGUS (Aug 1, 2021)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> Fixed.


DRJJ madara was factually stated to be above RSM naruto from the latter himself 
you are fooling yourself into thinking that toneri is above him when he got punked by just 100% BSM naruto 

unless you think that 100% BSM >> RSM naruto, in which case i wont even bother because again, that is factually not true

Reactions: Lewd 1


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## Charisma (Aug 1, 2021)

ARGUS said:


> DRJJ madara was factually stated to be above RSM naruto from the latter himself
> you are fooling yourself into thinking that toneri is above him when he got punked by just 100% BSM naruto
> 
> unless you think that 100% BSM >> RSM naruto, in which case i wont even bother because again, that is factually not true


Naruto arguably isn't even using Kurama Mode against Toneri. Visually speaking it's only Nine-Tails Chakra Mode (KCM), depicted by the lack of a long cloak.

Reactions: Optimistic 1 | Dislike 1


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## Grinningfox (Aug 1, 2021)

Serene Grace said:


> The Naruto that beat Madara is weaker than Rikudo Naruto, Rikudo Naruto pretty much outright stated he couldn’t defeat Madara by himself
> 
> Madara should win mid-high diff


This isn’t that Madara tho


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## ARGUS (Aug 1, 2021)

Charisma said:


> Naruto arguably isn't even using Kurama Mode against Toneri. Visually speaking it's only Nine-Tails Chakra Mode (KCM), depicted by the lack of a long cloak.


Yeah but the reason i state it as BSM is because he has kurama fighting separaetly against the golem too 
you can definitely argue that it is KCSM 

either of the two forms are fodder to an original rinnegan user with both eyes and senjutsu on top of it 
let alone DRJJ madara


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## Fused (Aug 1, 2021)

Grinningfox said:


> This isn’t that Madara tho


He loses the Ten Tails in this match-up. But the Ten Tails is a superfluous power-up when it comes to this match-up here. It would boost Madara's stamina, healing, regeneration exponentially, but he is not going to need it, since he will simply outmatch his opponent with the hax "Limbo".


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## Hina uzumaki (Aug 1, 2021)

Aside from limbo, there isn't any other argument for Madara winning, tells you all you need to know.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Aegon Targaryen (Aug 1, 2021)

Serene Grace said:


> Rikudo Naruto pretty much outright stated he couldn’t defeat Madara by himself



Never happened. 

He said he AND Sasuke will defeat Madara together, not that he alone CAN'T.

''Defeat'' here also clearly means ''kill'', hence Madara calling himself ''immortal'' (also bullshit as he indeed died and I see no reason Naruto couldn't have separated the Bijuus from him again like he did for Juubito).

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## Fused (Aug 1, 2021)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> Never happened.
> 
> He said he AND Sasuke will defeat Madara together, not that he alone CAN'T.
> 
> ''Defeat'' here also clearly means ''kill'', hence Madara calling himself ''immortal'' (also bullshit as he indeed died and I see no reason Naruto couldn't have separated the Bijuus from him again like he did for Juubito).


You should go to the Tokyo Olympics because this is a very good display of high-level gymnastics  The length people will go to to deny that Naruto indeed said that he alone couldn't defeat Madara, meaning that One-Rinnegan Madara >>> and able to kill Rikudou Naruto

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1 | Coolest Guy! 1


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## Aegon Targaryen (Aug 1, 2021)

Fused said:


> You should go to the Tokyo Olympics because this is a very good display of high-level gymnastics  The length people will go to to deny that Naruto indeed said that he alone couldn't defeat Madara, meaning that One-Rinnegan Madara >>> and able to kill Rikudou Naruto



And you should go back to school, seeing as you failed basic reading comprehension 

One-Rinnegan Madara got bitched by Rinnegan Sasuke, who at the time is vastly inferior to SPSM Naruto as the Kaguya fight reveals. In fact, Sasuke only finally rivals that aruto during VoTE2, and even then Sasuke needs borrowed power to match or surpass AA Naruto.

SPSM (not even AA) Naruto stepped to Kaguya multiple times in terms of speed, CQC, and strength. Make no mistake, he'd destroy Madara. The only caveat is actually killing the guy (according to the manga) or avoiding Mugen Tsukuyomi, and that is where he'd need Sasuke's help to reliably take it. AA Naruto on the other hand straight up deletes the fodder.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Optimistic 1


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## Fused (Aug 1, 2021)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> And you should go back to school, seeing as you failed basic reading comprehension
> 
> One-Rinnegan Madara got bitched by Rinnegan Sasuke, who at the time is vastly inferior to SPSM Naruto as the Kaguya fight reveals. In fact, Sasuke only finally rivals that aruto during VoTE2, and even then Sasuke needs borrowed power to match or surpass AA Naruto.
> 
> SPSM (not even AA) Naruto stepped to Kaguya multiple times in terms of speed, CQC, and strength. Make no mistake, he'd destroy Madara. The only caveat is actually killing the guy (according to the manga) or avoiding Mugen Tsukuyomi, and that is where he'd need Sasuke's help to reliably take it. AA Naruto on the other hand straight up deletes the fodder.


Actually I just went to school today and the teacher showed us (his class) a powerpoint presentation, we got to a slide that showed this:










Hmm, I wonder if this is just fake news or if this actually happened, but I was too afraid to ask the teacher

Reactions: Like 1 | Dislike 1


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## Bob74h (Aug 1, 2021)

Fused said:


> Bestiality, that's gross


Boruto stans are the same people who were simping over ada like a month ago so this is not shocking really


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## ARGUS (Aug 1, 2021)

Hina uzumaki said:


> Aside from limbo, there isn't any other argument for Madara winning, tells you all you need to know.


CST, Rikudo PS, and preta hax absorbing TCM 

id say theres plenty of ways madara can take out toneri

Reactions: Funny 1 | Dislike 1


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## Aegon Targaryen (Aug 1, 2021)

ARGUS said:


> CST, Rikudo PS, and preta hax absorbing TCM
> 
> id say theres plenty of ways madara can take out toneri



Inferior to Chibaku Tensei, and humanoid SPSM Teen Naruto + pre-VoTE PS Teen Sasuke already destroyed that.

Sasuke's PS got negged by Kaguya, the same Kaguya got countered and even overpowered by humanoid SPSM Naruto.

Preta absorbing TCM is legit lol as TCM has FAR BETTER ABSORPTION and can neg Juudara's chakra mode from afar.

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## ARGUS (Aug 1, 2021)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> Inferior to Chibaku Tensei, and humanoid SPSM Teen Naruto + pre-VoTE PS Teen Sasuke already destroyed that.


Yet far superior to KCSM narutos punch which punked toneri 
so no, 


Aegon Targaryen said:


> Sasuke's PS got negged by Kaguya, the same Kaguya got countered and even overpowered by humanoid SPSM Naruto.


she got overpowered once by SPSM naruto that was it, the entire rest of the battle involved naruto standing no chance and only stalling  
if thats your basis for thinking that spsm naruto is stronger than kaguya then lol 
if thats your basis for thinking that this helps toneris case or is even relevant in this battle then lol 

if kaguya used that same attack on RSM naruto without his avatar, then he would have died 


Aegon Targaryen said:


> Preta absorbing TCM is legit lol as TCM has FAR BETTER ABSORPTION and can neg Juudara's chakra mode from afar.


Preta absorbs the TCM shroud whenever toneri tries to attack him in CQC, 
TCM having far better absorption is pure conjecture, especially since we know pretas absorption is directly related to users chakra and strength. 

lol at TCM negging juudaras chakra modfe from afar. 
madara getting the juubi is overkill, he is factually stated to be RSM narutos equal in that form, yet toneri got punked by KCSM naruto 

nice try though

Reactions: Funny 1 | Dislike 1


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## Aegon Targaryen (Aug 1, 2021)

ARGUS said:


> Yet far superior to KCSM narutos punch which punked toneri



Based on literally nothing.

Said punch blasted through a Moon-cutting laser that >>> Juudara's Chibaku Tensei in AP that >>> the attack you're wanking.

Juudara's Chibaku Tensei took apart a country. Toneri's laser took apart the Moon.



ARGUS said:


> she got overpowered once by SPSM naruto that was it



Concession accepted that Naruto overpowered someone that >>> Juudara 



ARGUS said:


> the entire rest of the battle involved naruto standing no chance



Yes, because of Kaguya's other abilities 

Naruto legit was better than her in straight up physical strength though  



ARGUS said:


> if kaguya used that same attack on RSM naruto without his avatar, then he would have died



Not a chance, given that The Last Naruto is at least as good as the one that fought Kaguya, and much better by feats and portrayal.

The Last Naruto was above Moon level, Kaguya fight Naruto was merely above country level.

Stop trying to apply BETTER feats to a Naruto that has WORSE feats, troll  



ARGUS said:


> Preta absorbs the TCM shroud whenever toneri tries to attack him in CQC[/QUOTE
> 
> Like he absorbed SPSM...oh wait, he didn't
> 
> ...

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## Grinningfox (Aug 1, 2021)

ARGUS said:


> CST, Rikudo PS, and preta hax absorbing TCM
> 
> id say theres plenty of ways madara can take out toneri


TSOs stop all of that

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Serene Grace (Aug 2, 2021)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> Never happened.
> 
> He said he AND Sasuke will defeat Madara together, not that he alone CAN'T.
> 
> ''Defeat'' here also clearly means ''kill'', hence Madara calling himself ''immortal'' (also bullshit as he indeed died and I see no reason Naruto couldn't have separated the Bijuus from him again like he did for Juubito).


sounds like you’re stretching it lol I remember him saying “I won’t, but we will”, but I may be remembering the scene wrong. Either way, he needed sasuke to counter IT, deal with Madara’s limbo clones and seal him.



Grinningfox said:


> This isn’t that Madara tho


Whoops, my bad then

Reactions: Winner 1 | Lewd 1


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## Aegon Targaryen (Aug 2, 2021)

Serene Grace said:


> sounds like you’re stretching it lol I remember him saying “I won’t, but we will”



Won't =/ can't, and no buts.

Naruto means he AND Sasuke are fighting together, not that he NEEDS Sasuke's help.

Even Madara's comment isn't that he's too strong for Naruto, it's that Naruto can't kill him alone (hence the seals and Sasuke).

Never mind the fact the entire statement is probably BS given that NEITHER Naruto nor Madara know the former's full strength yet and Naruto threatens the massively stronger Kaguya later on.



Serene Grace said:


> but I may be remembering the scene wrong.



You are.



Serene Grace said:


> Either way, he needed sasuke to counter IT



True, but this was a Naruto who didn't know he could fly yet. Had he been able to do that, he'd have chased Juudara and knocked him back to earth.



Serene Grace said:


> deal with Madara’s limbo clones



He didn't need Sasuke at all 

He already sensed and dodged their attacks just fine and was able to counter them with an equal number of clones. Had he used more, he'd have stomped.



Serene Grace said:


> and seal him



This is the only true part, and I'd still say it's BS given that Naruto and Sasuke should still be able to rip the Bijuus out of him like they did Obito.

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## Raiken (Aug 2, 2021)

Serene Grace said:


> sounds like you’re stretching it lol I remember him saying “I won’t, but we will”, but I may be remembering the scene wrong. Either way, he needed sasuke to counter IT, deal with Madara’s limbo clones and seal him.
> 
> 
> Whoops, my bad then


Anyone who thinks Naruto could have solod 1RG Juudara(Post-Shinju) is lying to themselvse.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Aegon Targaryen (Aug 2, 2021)

Raiken said:


> Anyone who thinks Naruto could have solod 1RG Juudara(Post-Shinju) is lying to themselvse.



He could have, it's a fact.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1 | Disagree 1 | Optimistic 1


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## Trojan (Aug 2, 2021)

if there were 7 billion Madaras living on Earth. Toneri just smashes the moon into the Earth
and destroy Madara's entire population combined.

Reactions: Funny 3


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## WorldsStrongest (Aug 2, 2021)

Dragonus-BB- said:


> You do realise Kishimoto doesn't script the fights even in the film he actually wrote the script for, right


Kishimoto DID provide "complete editorial supervision" for the film tho

Regardless...This is a really silly gripe to have here

As if Kishimoto not being 110% directly responsible for hand crafting every fucking aspect of a project can somehow deem it non-canon or otherwise unusable for scaling...Even when he himself states the project was canon...And part of the manga....

What kind of argument is this?

This is just nonsense

You expect Kishi to solo an entire fucking feature length movie or something just so you can properly cite feats  

Garbage

Reactions: Winner 3


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## MYGod000 (Aug 2, 2021)

Madara Kills Toneri.

We going to act like Madara didn't Just rob the Moon Otsutsuki from the one job they had. Hagoromo and Hamura would be Ashamed of the moon Otsutsuki; they had one job.

When Madara Robbed them, they didn't make a sound, then He bought some ice, and bought a Stick like he Plays Hockey now.


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## WorldsStrongest (Aug 2, 2021)

> Madara kills Toneri even tho as a fucking 3 eyed JJ he has worse feats than him

Nice


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## MYGod000 (Aug 2, 2021)

WorldsStrongest said:


> > Madara kills Toneri even tho as a fucking 3 eyed JJ he has worse feats than him
> 
> Nice



Well that all trumped by the fact 9 tails alone could block his strongest attack.

Reactions: Optimistic 1 | Dislike 2


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## Aegon Targaryen (Aug 2, 2021)

MYGod000 said:


> Well that all trumped by the fact 9 tails alone could block his strongest attack.



And that trumped by the fact that's not regular Kurama, that's a BSM Kurama amplified by Hagoromo's Yang chakra.

Naruto didn't even need Bijuu Mode against Madara, in contrast he did need it to fight Toneri's statue.

Reactions: Like 1 | Optimistic 1 | Dislike 1


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## MYGod000 (Aug 2, 2021)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> And that trumped by the fact that's not regular Kurama, that's a BSM Kurama amplified by Hagoromo's Yang chakra.



well, Naruto doesn't have Six paths Chakra in the movie. He needed Hinata's chakra, who was stated in that movie to have six paths chakra.


Aegon Targaryen said:


> Naruto didn't even need Bijuu Mode against Madara, in contrast he did need it to fight Toneri's statue.


he was in Base SPSM Mode, using a power that surpassed Kurama.

while Toneri was stomped by Kurama.  in the future This is later changed Kurama stated now that he no longer has the his chakra he won't be superhuman.



there you go.

Reactions: Lewd 1


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## WorldsStrongest (Aug 2, 2021)

MYGod000 said:


> 9 tails alone


A Rikudo amped 9 tails perfect Jin actually

Stop talking nonsense

Reactions: Agree 2


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## ARGUS (Aug 2, 2021)

Juubi > Rikudo kurama 

especially since juubi pretty much has rikudo chakra as its originated from the shinju through kaguya which was whats passed onto hagoroomo

Reactions: Lewd 1 | Dislike 1


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## Aegon Targaryen (Aug 3, 2021)

ARGUS said:


> Nerfed Juubi <<<< Rikudo kurama



Fixed.

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## ARGUS (Aug 3, 2021)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> Juubi > Rikudo kurama


concession accepted

Reactions: Lewd 1 | Dislike 1


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## Aegon Targaryen (Aug 3, 2021)

ARGUS said:


> My concession is accepted

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## ARGUS (Aug 3, 2021)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> I love you Argus, and i know you are always right but im a tsundere


you are welcome, im flattered man

Reactions: Lewd 2


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## MYGod000 (Aug 3, 2021)

WorldsStrongest said:


> A Rikudo amped 9 tails perfect Jin actually
> 
> Stop talking nonsense


Yeah don't be a fool, Naruto combines His six paths power with the 9 tails.

In the databook It was stated SPSM>Kurama.


in boruto Kurama>SPSM. 


If he had Rikudo amped then Naruto wouldn't have needed Hinata Rikudo power


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## Hina uzumaki (Aug 3, 2021)

MYGod000 said:


> If he had Rikudo amped then Naruto wouldn't have needed Hinata Rikudo power


Just a quick note:- 

Wasn't it that she was immune as per possessing Hamura's six paths chakra? 


Sasuke had a Rinnegan and was six paths amped therefore we know that Naruto (who would have had SPSM) is also six paths amped.


In short, it is more of the tech not working on Hinata due to possessing Hamura's chakra than Naruto not being Rikodu buffed.


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## ARGUS (Aug 3, 2021)

@Code going ham with the revenge dislikes 
Dudes so damn hurt over anime characters

Reactions: Agree 3 | Coolest Guy! 2


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## Tsukuyomi (Aug 3, 2021)

ARGUS said:


> @Code going ham with the revenge dislikes
> Dudes so damn hurt over anime characters


What did I do?

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Fused (Aug 3, 2021)

Code said:


> What did I do?


You keep spamming people with dislikes, ducking, and running without ever presenting any argument. You're probably that quiet kid in class who never talks, never participates, never contributes in class, but thinks they're cool because they try to imitate the rich kids.

Reactions: Funny 2


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## ARGUS (Aug 3, 2021)

Code said:


> What did I do?


You’re the kid who blindly follows what you think the “majority” would like 
Because you want to be cool and to be noticed

but in the end, no one cares and it’s just sad

Reactions: Agree 2 | Funny 1 | Lewd 1


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## Tsukuyomi (Aug 3, 2021)

ARGUS said:


> You’re the kid who blindly follows what you think the “majority” would like
> Because you want to be cool and to be noticed
> 
> but in the end, no one cares and it’s just sad


That's cool and all.
But I got one question.
Why are you projecting details of your childhood onto me?

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 3


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## Raiken (Aug 3, 2021)

ARGUS said:


> You’re the kid who blindly follows what you think the “majority” would like
> Because you want to be cool and to be noticed
> 
> but in the end, no one cares and it’s just sad

Reactions: Agree 1 | Coolest Guy! 1


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## Monarch (Aug 3, 2021)

ARGUS said:


> You’re the kid who blindly follows what you think the “majority” would like
> Because you want to be cool and to be noticed
> 
> but in the end, no one cares and it’s just sad



You are asserting that no one cares, yet you make a post on this thread describing exactly what he does .

If anything , it seems the opposite to me .

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Trojan (Aug 3, 2021)

ARGUS said:


> @Code going ham with the revenge dislikes
> Dudes so damn hurt over anime characters


it's better to put the Tobi-tards squad on ignore list, and call it a day 
Whether it may be "Code" or the other tard called "ObitoOfTheOrangeMask" 

they spam like it's the last day of their lives.  

but you do what you want

Reactions: Winner 1 | Dislike 2


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## Tsukuyomi (Aug 3, 2021)

New Folder said:


> it's better to put the Tobi-tards squad on ignore list, and call it a day
> Whether it may be "Code" or the other tard called "ObitoOfTheOrangeMask"
> 
> they spam like it's the last day of their lives.
> ...


That is very ironic coming from the same person who spams optimistic ratings on every Itachi,Tobirama,Uchiha,Madara and Isshiki fan.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Monarch (Aug 3, 2021)

New Folder said:


> it's better to put the Tobi-tards squad on ignore list, and call it a day
> Whether it may be "Code" or the other tard called "ObitoOfTheOrangeMask"
> 
> they spam like it's the last day of their lives.
> ...



Says the tard whose posting career revolves around trolling because his reading comprehension is as good as a fetus, making spite threads, and downplaying certain characters that live in his head rent-free .

Not to mention how hypocritical you are and how easy it is to get yourself caught in your own lies .

Keep going at it, Hussain .

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Aegon Targaryen (Aug 3, 2021)

MYGod000 said:


> well, Naruto doesn't have Six paths Chakra in the movie



> Has SPSM (Hagoromo's Yang chakra), something Boruto also supports

> Doesn't have Six Paths chakra 

You all right, mate? Maybe you should stop going to the bar regularly, eh?



MYGod000 said:


> He needed Hinata's chakra, who was stated in that movie to have six paths chakra



And Hinata needed his chakra to destroy the Tenseigan. 

Funny you left that out 



MYGod000 said:


> he was in Base SPSM Mode, using a power that surpassed Kurama.



Base SPSM mode surpassing Kurama is a funny thing to say as Kurama's power is a huge part of the mode.



MYGod000 said:


> while Toneri was stomped by Kurama



Six Paths amped SM Kurama. 

Stop leaving that part out, you dishonest troll.



MYGod000 said:


> in the future This is later changed Kurama stated now that he no longer has the his chakra he won't be superhuman.



...?

Can you read? 

That literally supports my explanation, not yours, you daft troll  



MYGod000 said:


> there you go.



What is this supposed to say?

Reactions: Like 2 | Winner 1 | Disagree 1 | Optimistic 1


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## Aegon Targaryen (Aug 3, 2021)

ARGUS said:


> @Code going ham with the revenge dislikes
> Dudes so damn hurt over anime characters



Ironic coming from who posts dislikes at the greatest frequency of all posters  

@Mad Scientist you remember

Reactions: Funny 1 | Optimistic 1


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## Aegon Targaryen (Aug 3, 2021)

ARGUS said:


> please don't be angry at me, senpai, I love you, I want to be with you



Not my type, sorry, bruv

Reactions: Funny 2 | Optimistic 1


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## ARGUS (Aug 3, 2021)

Code said:


> That's cool and all.
> But I got one question.
> Why are you projecting details of your childhood onto me?


Oh so you basically said “you are” 
Real creative 
Must’ve striked a nerve

Reactions: Lewd 2


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## Tsukuyomi (Aug 3, 2021)

ARGUS said:


> Oh so you basically said “you are”
> Real creative
> Must’ve striked a nerve


Struck a nerve?
My guy I am just astounded at your desperation. 
That's all

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 1 | Winner 1


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## ARGUS (Aug 3, 2021)

ObitoOfTheOrangeMask said:


> You are asserting that no one cares, yet you make a post on this thread describing exactly what he does .
> 
> If anything , it seems the opposite to me .


Well I guess after getting over 20 dislikes Eveeydsy from the same user who never posts at all, you will eventually want to find out 

it’s like someone stealing a penny from you. Everyday 
At the beginning you let it slide 
But if it happens multiple times a day you atleast wonder

Reactions: Useful 1 | Lewd 1


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## ARGUS (Aug 3, 2021)

Code said:


> Struck a nerve?
> My guy I am just astounded at your desperation.
> That's all


No cap I had no idea who you even were 

Been on thess forums for over 8yrs and trust me, there’s been plenty of people who have been pressed by my posts 

because while they don’t blindly follow the “majority view”, they are always backed by evidence that really makes then mad

Reactions: Lewd 1


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## Tsukuyomi (Aug 3, 2021)

ARGUS said:


> No cap I had no idea who you even were
> 
> Been on thess forums for over 8yrs and trust me, there’s been plenty of people who have been pressed by my posts
> 
> because while they don’t blindly follow the “majority view”, they are always backed by evidence that really makes then mad


Who are those folks?

Reactions: Agree 1


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## ARGUS (Aug 3, 2021)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> Please validate me Argus, you always make me look dumb


Happy to educate you man

Reactions: Lewd 1


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## ARGUS (Aug 3, 2021)

Code said:


> Who are those folks?


some of them are the same folks you are following right now

Reactions: Useful 1


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## Grinningfox (Aug 3, 2021)

This thread is hilarious

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 2


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## Grinningfox (Aug 3, 2021)

A much weaker BSM Naruto was able to pressure (an admittedly sandbagging  but not below a God level ) Juubito .

The Last BSM is an entirely different beast

Reactions: Winner 1 | Kage 1


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## Monarch (Aug 3, 2021)

Grinningfox said:


> The Last BSM is an entirely different beast



If you think about it, the Naruto from the Last has the 2nd half of Kurama that is amped by Sage Mode when he uses BSM, which means the boost he gets from the other halve is multiplicative, as Sage Mode is stronger than Curse Mark which is already multiplier .

Then we consider that one halve already made him Founder Tier at full power, and we also take into account that when both halves are reunited there's an increase in potency since the Yin Yang cloaks that were given to the Shinobi Alliance were stronger than the normal Yang cloak that carried the same amount of chakra, which is evidenced by its shape .

Since both halves are reunited, the most logical conclusion is that the potency is increased by 2 times .

And finally, the Six Paths chakra he got from Hagoromo .

So the last BSM Naruto isn't as weak as many people here on the NBD are making him be in order to underrate Toneri .

Reactions: Kage 1


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## Aegon Targaryen (Aug 3, 2021)

ARGUS said:


> Please don't be mean to me, unfortunately I failed high school reading comprehension classes pepe



It's okay

Reactions: Friendly 1 | Optimistic 1


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## Altiora Night (Aug 3, 2021)

SM Naruto post-Jūbito fight literally got slapped away by blind Madara as if he was a non-factor.

Blind Madara didn't even have SM when he did that.

Then Naruto received his Six Paths boost, which made him far stronger, even in his Base Form.

Base Naruto (The Last) > Base Naruto (post-Rikudō) >>>>>>> SM Naruto (post-Jūbito).

Now slap KCM & SM on top of that, and you have The Last KSM Naruto who is significantly stronger than the Naruto who fought Jūbito.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Monarch (Aug 3, 2021)

Altiora Night said:


> SM Naruto post-Jūbito fight literally got slapped away by blind Madara as if he was a non-factor.
> 
> Blind Madara didn't even have SM when he did that.
> 
> ...



Agreed with everything .

On a side-note , how fast do you think EMS Madara was in his life ?

Reactions: Like 1


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## Grinningfox (Aug 3, 2021)

ObitoOfTheOrangeMask said:


> Agreed with everything .
> 
> On a side-note , how fast do you think EMS Madara was in his life ?


I know you didn’t ask me but probably peaked at Top end V1 speeds

Reactions: Useful 1


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## Raiken (Aug 3, 2021)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> > Has SPSM (Hagoromo's Yang chakra), something Boruto also supports


Not a fact though.

Yes he has SPSM still as an Adult, but Imo Hagaromo's Yang Chakra & Naruto's Six Paths Senjutsu(SPSM) are separate things, and I'll show why.
______________________________________________________________________________________

Naruto's Six Paths Senjutsu = The 9 Bijuu's Chakra combined w/ Toad Senjutsu.

*Initial Foreshadowing & Naruto receiving the Chakras of the Bijuu's. "Pay attention to what Hagaromo is saying."*

*Spoiler*: __ 












*More foreshadowing by Obito that something special has happened to Naruto after he received the Bijuu's Chakras.*

*Spoiler*: __ 









*More of the same kind of foreshadowing, with the Bijuu Chakras within Naruto being compared to the Sage of the Six Paths and infuriating the Juubi.*

*Spoiler*: __ 








*Obito specifically retrieving the two Bijuu Chakra's that HE KNEW, Naruto was lacking. Leading to the pay-off & conclusion to the Bijuu Chakras Sub-plot.

Spoiler:  










Result:*

*Spoiler*: __ 









Just like how it takes all 9 Bijuu to resurrect the Juubi, which in turn when sealed/controlled with the Rinnegan, provides Six Paths Senjutsu. Naruto through Cooperation as opposed to Domination, also achieved Six Paths Senjutsu with the 9-Bijuu's Chakras.

This ties directly into what Hagaromo says to the young Bijuu, about discovering, "what true power is", which is Cooperation.
______________________________________________________________________________________

Hagaromo's Yang & Yin Chakra = Hagaromo's own Six Paths Chakra.

*Hagaromo gave them a special Fuinjutsu, each containing half of Hagaromo's own Six Paths Chakra.*

*Spoiler*: __ 











*The Seals, and their power/chakra then returned to Hagaromo after they Sealed Kaguya.*

*Spoiler*: __ 








Fundamentally, Hagaromo's Gifted Yin/Yang Six Paths Chakra served as a Raw-Stat Amp, as well as providing some unique abilities, including the Six Paths - Chibaku Tensei.

Reactions: Informative 3


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## Grinningfox (Aug 3, 2021)

ObitoOfTheOrangeMask said:


> If you think about it, the Naruto from the Last has the 2nd half of Kurama that is amped by Sage Mode when he uses BSM, which means the boost he gets from the other halve is multiplicative, as Sage Mode is stronger than Curse Mark which is already multiplier .
> 
> Then we consider that one halve already made him Founder Tier at full power, and we also take into account that when both halves are reunited there's an increase in potency since the Yin Yang cloaks that were given to the Shinobi Alliance were stronger than the normal Yang cloak that carried the same amount of chakra, which is evidenced by its shape .
> 
> ...


  People just flat out underestimate Kurama’s raw power . He dwarfs literally everyone else in chakra and it’s not close even his fellow bijuu. The Gedo Mazo needed bijuu 1-8 to be sealed in order to hold just half of Kurama’s chakra without destabilizing.

Sage Mode introduces a NE that has to be balanced with the Yin and Yang ( so 1/3 is added ) so to enter BSM with Full Kurama hes got to be pullin in Bijuu levels of NE.

This plus all you said equals a incredibly powerful character who can swap hands with Gods

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Altiora Night (Aug 3, 2021)

ObitoOfTheOrangeMask said:


> Agreed with everything .
> 
> On a side-note , how fast do you think EMS Madara was in his life ?


Fast to very fast for a non-"God Tier".

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Altiora Night (Aug 3, 2021)

Raiken said:


> Not a fact though.
> 
> Yes he has SPSM still as an Adult, but Imo Hagaromo's Yang Chakra & Naruto's Six Paths Senjutsu(SPSM) are separate things, and I'll show why.
> ______________________________________________________________________________________
> ...


I partly agree with this to some extent, but from my point of view, it's not the _full story_ as I've already explained to you before.

Hagoromo is the main instigator for SPSM, hence why it's referred to as a gift from him in the databook.

He's not only the one who called the names of all Bijū, but he also later gave Naruto his chakra.

This chakra participated in Naruto obtaining SPSM.

In fact, the Yang power in Six Paths Sage Mode is so strong that even when he used Tailed Beast Mode in VOTE2, the Kurama avatar was the same color as when he had Yang Kurama, *even though Naruto at the time only had Yin Kurama*.

That is, like this:


Instead of like Minato's (left):

Reactions: Neutral 1 | Lewd 1


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## MYGod000 (Aug 3, 2021)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> > Has SPSM (Hagoromo's Yang chakra), something Boruto also supports
> 
> > Doesn't have Six Paths chakra
> 
> ...



Like I said in another thread Explain how Toneri is winning, when Naruto ended the fight in one punch  in a form that is 3 tiers Lowers than SPSM NAruto.

That's a Question you should be asking yourself mate, Even Sai, Shikamaru could survive Toneri's attack that sent them through the moon Crust with no Damage. 

The only one Trolling is you think Toneri win here when he got basically one shotted out of Tenseigan Mode using just the 9 tails chakra.

Reactions: Lewd 1


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## Sparks (Aug 3, 2021)

Grinningfox said:


> This thread is hilarious


God Tier/Otsutsuki scaling is the new Itachi vs. Minato or Naruto vs. Sasuke.


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## MYGod000 (Aug 3, 2021)

New Folder said:


> it's better to put the Tobi-tards squad on ignore list, and call it a day
> Whether it may be "Code" or the other tard called "ObitoOfTheOrangeMask"
> 
> they spam like it's the last day of their lives.
> ...



Yeah, Making the same Arguments He made Bigger boom so he more powerful, but you go by that Same logic for Boruto then they Cry, and Try and use Statements.


It's like doing the same position when you with your significant other it get boring don't one want to see the same response. Now they Regressed to just Saying I already debunked this argument years ago. 

They still can't explain how Toneri win this when he was smacked by Naruto in KCM+SM and one shotted by 9 tails chakra. Or how Sai and Shikmaru could easily no sell Toneri Moves which send them through the moon crust with no damage. 

But we suppose to believe he going to kill Madara when He couldn't even Kill Sai or Shikamaru.


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## Trojan (Aug 3, 2021)

Altiora Night said:


> In fact, the Yang power in Six Paths Sage Mode is so strong that even when he used Tailed Beast Mode in VOTE2, the Kurama avatar was the same color as when he had Yang Kurama, *even though Naruto at the time only had Yin Kurama*.


maybe it's just the chakra color of the user?   
like Naruto's chakra color is Yellow, where Minato's chakra color is closer to the orange
and thus Kurama's avatar (which is made of chakra) comes out depending on their chakra color of said user...


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## MYGod000 (Aug 3, 2021)

People don't ever want to Talk about the relevant Stuff when debating their bias Towards one character. 

No one going to talk about Sai Getting Slammed into the moon with Shikmaru with no damage While Toneri was in Tenseigan Mode.

But people want you to think He's more powerful than 3 eyed Madara?   The leaps in logic people will make,  1 Rinnegan SM Madara with just a limbo clone one-shotted 9 Tailed Beast instantly.
According to Boruto elitist, Sai and Shimakaru>all 9 Bijuu.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Lewd 1


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## Trojan (Aug 3, 2021)

MYGod000 said:


> People don't ever want to Talk about the relevant Stuff when debating their bias Towards one character.
> 
> No one going to talk about Sai Getting Slammed into the moon with Shikmaru with no damage While Toneri was in Tenseigan Mode.
> 
> ...


Didn't JJ Madara's 30+ CTs fail to do any damage to Gaara, Lee, or Gai?


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## MYGod000 (Aug 3, 2021)

New Folder said:


> Didn't JJ Madara's 30+ CTs fail to do any damage to Gaara, Lee, or Gai?



Considering Naruto and Sasuke Destroyed pretty much all of those 30+CT,  and all what was left was  Small chunks of debris the size of mountains.

That not so much of a big deal, when Considering Toneri Directly Targeted these guys with his attack and slammed them into the moons Crust and it did no Damage.

No one was hit by those 30+CT. so I wouldn't call that a Fail Because the Attack Never hit anyone, while Toneri's Attack did. 




You can't Argue that Because It never hit anyone because Naruto Destroyed the Remaining CT,  while Toneri Directly Attacked them and it did nothing to them.


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## Trojan (Aug 3, 2021)

MYGod000 said:


> Considering Naruto and Sasuke Destroyed pretty much all of those 30+CT, and all what was left was Small chunks of debris the size of mountains.


it was before that. 


this is the start of CT, and as you can see. Gaara, Lee and Gai were floating next to the rocks just fine.

Even Sakura and Kakashi were not affected by gravity in any way either.


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## MYGod000 (Aug 3, 2021)

New Folder said:


> it was before that.
> 
> 
> this is the start of CT, and as you can see. Gaara, Lee and Gai were floating next to the rocks just fine.
> ...


you mean when they Ran? So, what exactly are you trying to Say Pain CT> Nagato's CT>JJ Madara CT? 

Even Nagato's  CT Gravity didn't pull Naruto, Killer Bee and Itachi even after Itachi stated the gravity was Very strong.


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## MYGod000 (Aug 3, 2021)

@New Folder 




Like I said Even Itachi, Killer Bee, and KCM were getting Affected by Nagato's CT, and Stated It was a Strong Gravitational pull.

It was pulling up Trees from the roots, and they had to hold on to not get Dragged into it. But you're Telling Me a Half dead Gai on his death bed can no sell JJ Madara CT Gravity? 

Rinnegan users are able to manipulate the Gravitational pull, which is more reasonable thinking Nearly Dead Gai can resist gravitational pull that could easily pull up Trees by the root when used by Nagato who is leagues Weaker than Madara.

Reactions: Lewd 1


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## SlimeReincarnated (Aug 3, 2021)

MYGod000 said:


> No one going to talk about Sai Getting Slammed into the moon with Shikmaru with no damage While Toneri was in Tenseigan Mode.


It is weird how people just ignore that.

Reactions: Lewd 1


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## Aegon Targaryen (Aug 3, 2021)

MYGod000 said:


> People don't ever want to Talk about the relevant Stuff when debating their bias Towards one character.



And Juudara failed to kill Sakura, dude couldn't even kill Gaara or Minato with a kick  

Love how you don't even show what happened to Shikamaru after he got hit though


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## Aegon Targaryen (Aug 3, 2021)

MYGod000 said:


> Like I said in another thread Explain how Toneri is winning, when Naruto ended the fight in one punch  in a form that is 3 tiers Lowers than SPSM NAruto



Which form is 3 tiers lower?  

Yang KCM2 + SM seems equally strong.



MYGod000 said:


> That's a Question you should be asking yourself mate, Even Sai, Shikamaru could survive Toneri's attack that sent them through the moon Crust with no Damage



Proof? I don't trust anything you say. 

Not that it matters, that's not Golden Wheel and even Juudara couldn't kill Sakura with TSB or Minato and Gaara with his physical attacks, even Minato could safely intercept a TSB with his body  



MYGod000 said:


> The only one Trolling is you think Toneri win here when he got basically one shotted out of Tenseigan Mode using just the 9 tails chakra.



Love how you left out that not only does this Naruto have far better feats than his younger self but also has Hagoromo's chakra and SM amping him


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## MYGod000 (Aug 3, 2021)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> And Juudara failed to kill Sakura, dude couldn't even kill Gaara or Minato with a kick
> 
> Love how you don't even show what happened to Shikamaru after he got hit though



A Sakura had 100 Healing, Which helped Tsunada Survive Being sliced in half something that Isshiki took 1000 years to heal from. 

But keep nitpicking.

Reactions: Lewd 1


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## Aegon Targaryen (Aug 3, 2021)

MYGod000 said:


> A Sakura had 100 Healing



Excuses. 



MYGod000 said:


> But keep nitpicking.



Concession accepted on everything else.


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## MYGod000 (Aug 3, 2021)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> Which form is 3 tiers lower?
> 
> Yang KCM2 + SM seems equally strong.
> 
> ...



Golden Wheel Was Tanked by 9 tails.  KCM with Sage mode is 3 tiers lower than SPSM. 

Again Minato was EDO Tensei? so He already dead.  Gaara would have died if not for Tsunada Saving him After using 100 Healing while she was Bisected. 

something That Isshiki took 1000 years to recover from Being Bisected, while Tsunada survived it and was above to save Gaara while she was Bisected.


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## MYGod000 (Aug 3, 2021)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> Excuses.
> 
> 
> 
> Concession accepted on everything else.



Glad you conceded that Isshiki couldn't survive Being Bisected when Tsuanda could.



Toneri's attacks Were tanked by Sai, Sakura without 100 Healing, and Shikmaru, as well as the 9 tails chakra cloak.

While your only response to that is Madara stabbing 100 Healing Sakura(who has more chakra Than SPSM Naruto clone Stated by obito) as a rebuttal? then you talked About Madara not Killing a Edo Tensei Minato who is already dead? At that point you have to tell yourself when there no Talking to a delusional Madara hater.

I accept your lost.

Reactions: Coolest Guy! 1


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## MYGod000 (Aug 3, 2021)

SlimeReincarnated said:


> It is weird how people just ignore that.


Yeah, They will ignore anything to low-ball Madara.

You see for yourself,  How delusional Madara Haters are when I gave them a legitimate Reason  Why Sakura didn't die.  Even Tsunade was able to survive being Stabbed by Susano blades With 100 Healing activated.


He called that an Excuse; and then Further showed his IQ is below 50  when He implied JJ Madara Couldn't Kill Edo Tensei Minato and Gaara.



When Gaara was only Living Because of Tsunada's 100 Healing, and she did this while Bisected.  Isshiki took 1000 years to recover from Those types of Damage Tsunada Survived.

So, I'm just accepting his concession since he ignored Everything with his selective reading and only focused on what he wanted to to benefit his own argument.

I just want dude to understand none of that negates the Fact that Toneri did a Silver Wheel explosion which Tore through the moon crust and it didn't even damage Sai, Sakura without 100 healing, and Shikamaru. 


But according to aegon Madara just Stabbing Sakura with TSB is comparable to Toneri Busting the moon Crust.

Reactions: Like 1


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