# Who do you think are the Ten Strongest People in One Piece, currently?



## oiety (Mar 3, 2018)

Ordered from strongest to weakest, preferably.


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## Luke (Mar 3, 2018)

#1. Kaidou

The rest, unranked -

Akainu, Kuzan, Kizaru, Ryokugyu (or Fujitora, but I suspect Green Bull will be stronger), Mihawk, Shanks, Big Mom, Blackbeard, Dragon

Current Garp and Sengoku could possibly be on the list, but I think they've weakened so I'll say they are just outside it.


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## Extravlad (Mar 3, 2018)

1. Kaido
2. Sakazuki
3. Dragon
4. Mihawk
5. Shanks
6. Kuzan
7. Borsalino
8. Big Mom
9. Garp
10. Fujitora

edit : forgot about BB but idk where to put him anyway, could be anywhere from 1st to 10th

Reactions: Like 1


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## MYJC (Mar 3, 2018)

Kaido
Shanks
Blackbeard
Big Mom
Akainu
Dragon
Mihawk
Kizaru
Fujitora
The New Admiral (could be higher)


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## X18999 (Mar 3, 2018)

Kaidou, Dragon, Mihawk, Shanks, Linlin, Teach, Kuzan, Sukazuki, Barsolino


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## Butt Chugger (Mar 3, 2018)

1. Kaido
2. Akainu
3. Shanks
4. Blackbeard
5. Mihawk
6. Katakuri
7. Pell
8. Kizaru
9. Big Mom
10. Luffy

Reactions: Funny 4


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## Deleted member 211714 (Mar 3, 2018)

Shanks
Dragon
Mihawk
Rayleigh
C3/Kaidou
Garp

Teach should be somewhere in there. Could be as high as Shanks or as low as Garp

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## Torpedo Titz (Mar 3, 2018)

Shanks
Kaido
Basedbeard
Meme
Akainu
Aokiji
Kizaru
Fujitora/Ryokugyu
Mihawk

Makes sense from a story context:
Yonko > Admirals > strongest Warlord

What complicates this is:
- embarrassingly bad Yonko feats
- amazing Admiral feats
- the rank of Fleet Admiral
- the title of World's Strongest/Greatest Swordsman
- Dragon

Other factors to consider being:
- Kaido's exact nature/origin
- Basedbeard's growth and relative newness
- severe injury suffered by Akainu and Aokiji

By feats Akainu is no.1, but I feel ranking him higher would muddle up Yonko and Admirals too much. This is cleaner, though perhaps less accurate

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Deleted member 211714 (Mar 3, 2018)

The admirals' best feats consist of taking down distracted commanders and looking good against the weakest emperor due to his several disadvantages in battle. They get consistently portrayed in predicaments with the first mates, too. Not sure how that makes any of them look better than Shanks. Definitely makes them look better than Big Mom or a weakened version of Whitebeard that is far out of his prime. Those two aren't exceptional among top-tier characters, though. Kaidou and Teach are unknown, but Shanks had the best portrayal of anyone before the timeskip.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Winner 3 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Ruse (Mar 3, 2018)

Kaido
Dragon
Mihawk
Shanks
BB
Akainu
BM
Aokiji
Kizaru
Fujitora


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## convict (Mar 4, 2018)

1. Kaido
2/3/4/5. Shanks/Mihawk/Dragon/Akainu
6/7/8/9. Meme/Blackbeard/Kizaru/Kuzan
10/11/12/13. Fujitora/Ryokogyu/Rayleigh/Garp

Kong is probably somewhere in there and Sengoku, Marco, Beckman, King are the next on the list.

Luffy is really coming close to the top of the top now.


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## Sumu (Mar 4, 2018)

Shanks
Kaido 
Black Beard
Big Mom
Akainu
Dragon
Mihawk
Kuzan 
Kizaru 
Fujitora


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## MO (Mar 4, 2018)

convict said:


> 1. Kaido
> 2/3/4/5. Shanks/Mihawk/Dragon/Akainu
> 6/7/8/9. Meme/Blackbeard/Kizaru/Kuzan
> 10/11/12/13. Fujitora/Ryokogyu/Rayleigh/Garp
> ...


do you have katakuri as the  weakest FM?


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## GilDLax (Mar 4, 2018)

Yonkou, Admirals, Fleet Admiral, Dragon, Aokiji/Garp/Sengoku/Kong.

Who knows Gorosei might stomp them all LOL


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## TheOnlyOne1 (Mar 4, 2018)

There's no clear cut top list.
1) Blackbeard
2) Shanks
3) Akainu/Kaidou
4) Big Mom/Aokiji
5) Kizaru/Mihawk
6) Dragon???
7) Fujitora
8) Green Bull
9) Garp
10) Sengoku
11) Marco/Ben/Sabo
12) Katakuri/Kaidou's man.
13) Jozu/Smoothie/Kaidou's member/Shanks member
14) Cracker/Vista/Ace/Kaidou's member/ Shanks member
15) Doflamingo/Boa Hancock





I do think Garp and Senogoku are significantly weaker now so they could be lower than where I placed them. They are like 80? or something.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Mar 4, 2018)

impossible to know atm aside from WSC Kaidou being #1


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## Geralt-Singh (Mar 4, 2018)

Kaido
Akainu
Mihawk/Shanks
Kuzan/Kizaru/BB
Big Mom/Fujitora/Ryokugyu


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## Admiral Kizaru (Mar 4, 2018)

1. Kaido
2. Sakazuki
3. Mihawk
4. Teach
5. Kuzan
6. Shanks
7. Borsalino
8. Issho
9. BM
10. Dragon/Ryokugyu


That's basically the top eleven, undisputedly. The order will depend on your own powerlevel biases but this seems roughly about right based on everything we've seen so far (feats, portrayal, hype, importance etc). 

* Decided to take the easy option and place both Dragon and Ryokugyu at the bottom simply because they're both featless but I imagine both will place higher once we see them. Dragon for obvious reasons and Ryokugyu because he may turn out to be the Akainu replacement within the Admirals in terms of mindset.

* Teach was hard to place because he's a growing character. Decided to give him the benefit of the doubt for the time being and place him above the likes of Shanks & Kuzan.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1 | Winner 2


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## Djomla (Mar 4, 2018)

Kaido/Shanks/Kizaru/Akainu
Teach. At least until he masters his DFs
Kuzan/Fujitora/Green Bull
Mihawk

Dragon has no feats and Garp is getting older.


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## Dunno (Mar 4, 2018)

Kaido / Mihawk / Shanks / Akainu 
Aokiji / Blackbeard 
Garp / Kizaru / Rayleigh / Fujitora / Ryokogyu / Big Mom

Dragon should be somewhere up there as well, but he's too mysterious to place, as is Kong, who might or might not be up there.


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## Raiden34 (Mar 4, 2018)

LOL @ Mihawk and Akainu being stronger than the two Yonko....

1- Kaido
2- Blackbeard
3- Shanks
4- Big Mom
5- Dragon
6- Akainu
7- Aokiji
8- Kizaru
9- Fujitora
10- Ryokugyu

Mihawk is behind of Marco, Beckman, and probably Kaido's right hand, and Sabo, I have also high expectations from Lucci, if he could really fight with Sabo as he did in the movie, and Shiryu if he has the diamond fruit.

Reactions: Tier Specialist 3 | Dislike 1


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## Shiba D. Inu (Mar 4, 2018)

Erkan12 said:


> LOL @ Mihawk and Akainu being stronger than the two Yonko....
> 
> 1- Kaido
> 2- Blackbeard
> ...


Mihawk > MUI Goku Kappa


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## Raiden34 (Mar 4, 2018)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> Mihawk > MUI Goku


If he can defeat pre-TS Luffy Kappa


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## Admiral Kizaru (Mar 4, 2018)

Erkan12 said:


> LOL @ Mihawk and Akainu being stronger than the two Yonko....
> 
> 1- Kaido
> 2- Blackbeard
> ...



Guess we finally know why you're known as Nerdkan. 



And you're really going go down sinking on the "_muh yonkou" _ship even after this arc? Kind of fitting given your posting history on here and MF. Kappa

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Kai (Mar 4, 2018)

I see the Mihawk cancer still persists and people actually think he's above at least two Yonko 

ck

Kaido
Shanks
Dragon
Akainu
Blackbeard
Big Mom
Kizaru
Fujitora/Ryokugyu
Mihawk/Marco

I peg Mihawk as Admiral level but too little is known to know how he'd be able to fare against each of them let alone any Admiral vs. each other. For the time being he's in the same ballpark as Marco, which for pirates is the next best thing after the Yonko. 

But give it up people. *The Marines did not have a Yonko level pirate going against one of the Yonko.*

Reactions: Like 2 | Tier Specialist 1 | Dislike 1


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## Shiba D. Inu (Mar 4, 2018)

Kai said:


> Mihawk/Marco


ck





Kai said:


> *The Marines did not have a Yonko level pirate going against one of the Yonko.*


they did, but

(1) Mihawk didnt really give enough of a fuck to try all out the whole time
(2) WB wasnt just a yonkou, he was WSM


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## Dunno (Mar 4, 2018)

Kai said:


> I see the Mihawk cancer still persists and people actually think he's above at least two Yonko
> 
> ck
> 
> ...


The marines had 4 serious Yonkou level marines and one casual Yonkou level pirate going up against one of the Yonkou. It should be stated however that the Yonkou they fought was stronger than any of these Yonkou level characters.


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## Raiden34 (Mar 4, 2018)

Kai said:


> But give it up people. *The Marines did not have a Yonko level pirate going against one of the Yonko.*



Marco believes Vista is Yonko level too.



Vista can ''take care of a Yonko'' 

ck


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## Kai (Mar 4, 2018)

Dunno said:


> The marines had 4 serious Yonkou level marines and one casual Yonkou level pirate going up against one of the Yonkou. It should be stated however that the Yonkou they fought was stronger than any of these Yonkou level characters.


"They had one casual Yonko pirate going against one of the Yonko"

I call terrible reading comprehension right now. You can't honestly believe this bullshit but I guess hundreds in this subforum do.

They actually think Marines, along with their 3 Admirals, *had another Yonko *going against *one Yonko.
*
Someone tell me I'm not crazy for thinking this is shitty reading comprehension.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Admiral Kizaru (Mar 4, 2018)

Kai said:


> "They had one casual Yonko pirate going against one of the Yonko"
> 
> I call terrible reading comprehension right now. You can't honestly believe this bullshit but I guess hundreds in this subforum do.
> 
> ...



Maybe it's time to realise that it's just you and not the rest of the world.


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## Admiral Kizaru (Mar 4, 2018)

Erkan12 said:


> Marco believes Vista is Yonko level too.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Marco also thought he could take on Teach and look how that turned out.

Reactions: Funny 3


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## Shiba D. Inu (Mar 4, 2018)

they already had up to *5* solid *top*-tiers (C3 + Garp + Sengoku)

_what the fuck does it matter_ if they get another or not

Reactions: Like 1


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## Admiral Kizaru (Mar 4, 2018)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> they already had up to *5* solid *top*-tiers (C3 + Garp + Sengoku)
> 
> _what the fuck does it matter_ if they get another or not




I legitimately think some of these nerds actually think the WB pirates won and didn't get their asses kicked at MF.


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## Raiden34 (Mar 4, 2018)

Marco should've sent Vista to Blackbeard, Vista is obviously more experienced than Marco when it comes to dealing with Yonko level opponents.

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## Bohemian Knight (Mar 4, 2018)

No order:

Shanks
Kaido
Dragon
Akainu
Mihawk
Blackbeard
Big Mom
Kuzan
Kizaru
Fujitora

Not including Ryukyugu because we haven't seen him but he could be above Fuji when introduced


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## Kai (Mar 4, 2018)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> they already had up to *5* solid *top*-tiers (C3 + Garp + Sengoku)
> 
> _what the fuck does it matter_ if they get another or not


The Yonko are above them so having those top tiers fucking matters to take them down




I'll tell you what we didn't have. We didn't have 5 Yonko level Admirals + 1 Yonko pirate (making 6) to take down one Yonko and crew.

An old Rayleigh far out of his prime *who is not on the level of any of the Yonko*, was about even with Kizaru. Seriously, stop that shit.

What's even worse than the second line is the faction of people who actually think C3 Admirals are below Yonko but Mihawk is still Yonko level. So these are the people who actually believe Mihawk was the strongest force the Marines had the entire war

Reactions: Like 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## DoctorLaw (Mar 4, 2018)

Currently?

1.  Shanks
2. Akainu
3. Dragon
4. Kaido
5. Teach
6. Aokiji
7.Kizaru
8. Mihawk/Fujitora (can't decide)
9. BM
10. Rayleigh/Garp/Sengoku old folks

Might've forgotten someone, but that's how I see it now. For what it's worth, I think high difficulty is a minimum for any person on this list to beat out any other. Teach will top the list once he gets his next powerup.

May surprise some, but I actually almost put Katakuri on this list before I remembered a few names.


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## DoctorLaw (Mar 4, 2018)

Torpedo Titz said:


> Shanks
> Kaido
> Basedbeard
> Meme
> ...



Or you could just assume that Oda doesn't have rules on Yonkou>Admiral? 

Y>A is headcannon honestly. WB was the strongest Yonkou, even while he was dying, makes sense he would be able to go through a gauntlet of admirals while there is an entire war going around. 1v1, any other yonkou could possibly lose to Akainu, we don't have the sample size to know yet.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Gianfi (Mar 4, 2018)

1) Kaido
2) Shanks
3) Akainu
4) BB(?)
5) Big Mom
6) Aokiji
7) Dragon
8) Kizaru
9) Mihawk 
10) Fujitora/Green Bull 

Special mention: the gorosei, Wano shogun, King of Elbaf Loki

Something like this I guess?

Reactions: Agree 1


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## TheWiggian (Mar 5, 2018)

Admiral Kizaru said:


> 1. Kaido
> 2. Sakazuki
> 3. Mihawk
> 4. Teach
> ...



This one is pretty accurate, thank you for sharing your beautiful knowledge with us.
Thought I'd probably make some minor changes like these:

1. Kaido
2. Sakazuki
3. Mihawk
4. Kuzan
5. Borsalino/Shanks
6. Shanks/Borsalino
7. Fuckface Teach/Issho
8. Issho/Fuckface Teach
9. Big Labia
10. Dragon/Ryokugyu
11. Ryokugyu/Dragon

Reactions: Friendly 1


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## Gohara (Mar 5, 2018)

Dragon/Shanks.
Kaidou.
Big Mam's character/Blackbeard/Garp/Akainu.
Mihawk.
Beckman.
Lord Katakuri.

Of course this is all just in my opinion and excludes characters such as the Gorosei, Kong, and any other unknown characters.

Reactions: Tier Specialist 2


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## TheOnlyOne1 (Mar 5, 2018)

@Gohara. You are missing a few. Not anyone special. Oh I don't know, just some puny little Admirals, that's all. Lol


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## Admiral Kizaru (Mar 5, 2018)

DoctorLaw said:


> Currently?
> 
> 1.  Shanks
> 2. Akainu
> ...



You seem like one of the few on the OBD that has a sensible and fair head on their shoulders. Can I therefore ask why you place Kaido only at fourth on the list given his title & introduction?



DoctorLaw said:


> Or you could just assume that Oda doesn't have rules on Yonkou>Admiral?
> 
> Y>A is headcannon honestly. WB was the strongest Yonkou, even while he was dying, makes sense he would be able to go through a gauntlet of admirals while there is an entire war going around. 1v1, any other yonkou could possibly lose to Akainu, we don't have the sample size to know yet.



Agreed. WB was the WSM.

Thing is as well is that none of the Admirals looked bad against WB when they came up against him. The one incident which the haters go to town over where Akainu got mauled from behind would have happened to anyone in the same situation and he gave as good as he got in response.



TheWiggian said:


> This one is pretty accurate, thank you for sharing your beautiful knowledge with us.



Thank you. I try my hardest to spread my wisdom on here to the plebs.  



TheOnlyOne1 said:


> @Gohara. You are missing a few. Not anyone special. Oh I don't know, just some puny little Admirals, that's all. Lol



Are you new here?


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## TheOnlyOne1 (Mar 5, 2018)

Sort of. I like the way Gohara says things. He is pretty chill and civil, unlike me. But his tiers are all sorts of messed up. I mean I'm pretty generous to the commanders but I would never place them above Admirals.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Winner 1 | Friendly 1


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## MO (Mar 5, 2018)

1.Kaido.
2.Teach
3.Big mom
4.Akainu
5.Mihawk
6.Shanks/kizaru
7.Aokiji(probably above tho with shanks and kizaru)
8.Fuji
9.Old rayleigh
10. Katakuri

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## Luke (Mar 5, 2018)

TheOnlyOne1 said:


> Sort of. I like the way Gohara says things. He is pretty chill and civil, unlike me. But his tiers are all sorts of messed up. I mean I'm pretty generous to the commanders but I would never place them above Admirals.



I don't agree with Gohara a lot of the time on power level stuff but he's probably the most civil/respectful poster on here.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2 | Friendly 1


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## Shrike (Mar 5, 2018)

Gohara might just be the most civil guy here and his posts are easy to read, his sense of tiers and story aside.

Ot: Currently, like this.

Kaidou
Akainu
Shanks
Big Mom
Dragon
Aokiji
Kizaru
Fuji
Ryoku
Mihawk

I will not list BB because he is rising up the ranks very fast, and I already think that he is about Dragon level or even above BM. So somewhat Shanks level. I will also ignore Garp, Sengoku and Kong because they are far out of their prime, but Garp would be in Top 2.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1 | Friendly 1


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## ZE (Mar 5, 2018)

1.Kaido
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.Shanks

Oh, wait a second. I forgot Shanks stopped Kaido from attacking WB. Is Luffy's end goal. Casually stopped Akainu. Was on Roger's crew (giving him experience and knowledge few have). Is an haki specialist in a world where haki stands above even devil fruit powers. 

But no, lets just pretend he's farther to Kaido than he actually is. 
If anything he could very well be the one closest to Kaido.

Reactions: Like 2 | Winner 1 | Informative 1


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## Shiba D. Inu (Mar 5, 2018)

ZE said:


> Is Luffy's end goal.


um, no

Shanks is important and all, "family", but _*ultimately*_ is no more than another stepping stone for Luffy to surpass on the way to PK (and then even beyond the PK - possibly as the leader of the worldwide revolution / spearhead of the "final war" .. the war in which Akainu can possibly be the biggest enemy)


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## Bohemian Knight (Mar 6, 2018)

I think Gohara's list is the best representative of the rest of the board's opinions.

Somebody pin his post

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Seraphoenix (Mar 6, 2018)

Shanks/Kaidou/BM/Teach/Mihawk(Hype)
Dragon
gap
Akainu(assuming he got a power boost)
Aokiji(assuming he got a power boost)/Ben Beckmann
any other fm or admiral. They should all be around the same level.

Mihawk by feats is just above Vista.

Didn't place Garp but he should be stronger than Kizaru given that he went even with Rayleigh who unlike Garp wasn't active. He was also stronger than Rayleigh in the first place.



Shiba D. Inu said:


> um, no
> 
> Shanks is important and all, "family", but _*ultimately*_ is no more than another stepping stone for Luffy to surpass on the way to PK (and then even beyond the PK - possibly as the leader of the worldwide revolution / spearhead of the "final war" .. the war in which Akainu can possibly be the biggest enemy)


 Did you miss where Shanks gave his strawhat to Luffy because he said he will surpass Shanks???? Surpassing Shanks is his goal whether you like it or not. Surpassing him means being PK as Shanks is currently one of the four pirates closest to being PK.

Reactions: Winner 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Shiba D. Inu (Mar 6, 2018)

ZE said:


> Is Luffy's *end* goal





Seraphoenix said:


> Surpassing Shanks is his goal


 

difference, do you see it ?




Seraphoenix said:


> Surpassing him means being PK

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Tenma (Mar 6, 2018)

It's almost certain the person Luffy will have to surpass to become PK is Teach, not Shanks

Reactions: Agree 1 | Optimistic 1


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## Shiba D. Inu (Mar 6, 2018)

Seraphoenix said:


> He is *the *obstacle for Luffy.


nope 

_maybe_ Luffy thinks that atm, but he will know better after Teach becomes *the *top yonkou and gets really close to Raftel (or even reaches Raftel)

Shanks might even have been killed by then (by Teach) 





Seraphoenix said:


> How do you come to be recognised as the strongest in this manga? as PK tier or WSM tier? If you can beat the Yonkou. What is Shanks? a Yonkou  Surpassing him means you have the power to go be recognised as the strongest.


Kaidou is the WSC atm and soon enough the WSM will be Teach

Shanks is "just" a mid (or high) tier yonkou

Reactions: Like 1 | Optimistic 1


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## Shiba D. Inu (Mar 6, 2018)

Shanks *is* important, you are just quite overrating *how* important/strong, @Seraphoenix kun

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## Seraphoenix (Mar 6, 2018)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> nope
> 
> _maybe_ Luffy thinks that atm, but he will know better after Teach becomes *the *top yonkou and gets really close to Raftel (or even reaches Raftel)
> 
> ...



Luffy saw what everyone was capable of at MF and still thinks that so I think I'm safe It doesn't matter if Teach kills him as Luffy, Teach and Shanks are the three most important characters in the manga Teach killing Shanks will be what gets him recognised as the ultimate threat.






Shiba D. Inu said:


> Kaidou is the WSC atm and soon enough the WSM will be Teach
> 
> Shanks is "just" a mid (or high) tier yonkou


Kaido? the guy Shanks stopped from going to MF? that guy? The Yonkou are so close in fighting ability that they have been in a stalemate for years. Even if Kaido is stronger it is so small that he can't get an advantage over the others.

Teach will be the strongest in the manga agreed. That doesn't change the fact that he will do it by being stronger than Shanks and the other Yonkou as they are the measuring stick that determines if you are WSM level.



Shiba D. Inu said:


> Shanks *is* important, you are just quite overrating *how* important/strong, @Seraphoenix kun


 His relationship with Luffy is literally the reason Luffy wants to be PK. I'm sure he is not that important. The theme of this manga is ''inherited will, destiny of the age and the dreams of the people''. The strawhat represents inherited will from Roger to Shanks to Luffy. He can't be that important huh 

I overrate nothing. So far the only people to take Shanks up on his challenge to fight have been stabilised WSM WB and Kaido who can't die. None of your admirals were man enough to step up. Teach was ready to sink MF and fight all of them until Shanks came said it's over. I underrate him if anythingKappa


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## Shiba D. Inu (Mar 6, 2018)

he is also weaker than the WSS Mihawk

Reactions: Disagree 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Seraphoenix (Mar 6, 2018)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> he is also weaker than the WSS Mihawk


You trying to go into comedy now? Mihawk can barely handle Vista let alone Jozu who was struggling to stay conscious in front of Shanks.

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 1


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## Sherlōck (Mar 6, 2018)

*Current top 10* (in no particular order),

Akainu
Kizaru
Fujitora
Ryukogai
Kaido
Shanks
Big Meme
Blackbeard
Mihawk
Dragon
*Future Top 10* (in no particular order),

Luffy
Blackbeard
Akainu
Dragon
Zoro
Shillew
Sabo
Kaido
Kizaru
Shanks / Kidd
*All time top 10* (in no particular order),

Roger
Whitebeard
Garp
Sengoku / Kizaru
Kaido
Akainu
Luffy
Blackbeard
Zoro
Shillew


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## Dunno (Mar 6, 2018)

Sherlōck said:


> *Current top 10* (in no particular order),
> 
> Akainu
> Kizaru
> ...


You have Kizaru, Fujitora and Ryokogyu above Aokiji?


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## Magentabeard (Mar 6, 2018)

I don't think Fujitora is top 10, even excluding potential admiral level + characters that have't been revealed yet. The chances of Fujitora being in the top 10 are less than current Luffy being stronger than Fujitora IMO.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Shiba D. Inu (Mar 6, 2018)

Dunno said:


> You have Kizaru, Fujitora and Ryokogyu above Aokiji?


didnt Aokiji lose half a leg ?


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## Kai (Mar 6, 2018)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> Shanks is "just" a mid (or high) tier yonkou



WTF did I just read




And Roger was just a mid (or high-mid) tier Pirate King.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Gohara (Mar 6, 2018)

TheOnlyOne1 said:


> Oh I don't know, just some puny little Admirals



They are some of the top considerations that I think of for number 10.  But the top tier characters in my opinion take up most of the space with only 2 or 3 slots after them which I give to Mihawk for obvious reasons and Beckman based on character role and after that there is only 1 other slot.  The non-Akainu Admirals are no doubt beasts but so far I'm simply more impressed with Lord Katakuri.  That physical strength, offensive firepower, Haki, speed, Devil Fruit skills, etc. are an exceptional combination.



TheOnlyOne1 said:


> I mean I'm pretty generous to the commanders but I would never place them above Admirals.



I don't rank the top Yonkou Commanders above the Admirals entirely.  It depends on the Yonkou Commander and the Admiral.  And I don't think that's overly generous.  From what I've seen, those characters have done no less than clash and/or confront evenly with Admirals.

Beckman is the only Yonkou Commander that we've seen so far that I rank superior to any of the Admirals individually but that's not based on feats, if we were talking pure feats I would give Pre Time Skip Akainu an edge against any Yonkou Commander that we've seen so far.

Also thanks for the kind words!  Although we disagree on where the Admirals rank I respect your views and have enjoyed the posts that I have read from you so far!

And thanks to Shrike and Luke for the kind words as well.  Disagreement is healthy.  And Luke, that's only One Piece power levels or more specifically Admiral power levels.  Our rankings are pretty similar for Bleach if I remember correctly.  And we're both on that Sengoku hype.

Reactions: Like 2 | Friendly 2


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## Shiba D. Inu (Mar 6, 2018)

Kai said:


> WTF did I just read


the truth, son, the truth



strongest yonkou is Kaidou and before that WB


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## Deleted member 211714 (Mar 6, 2018)

Ever wondered why a small crew with their captain who has one arm and seemingly no fruit abilities would manage to be one of the strongest crews out there? The other emperors are physical giants with strange durability/endurance or have some of the strongest fruits. Shanks and Red Hair Pirates are being slept on. If you apply the same logic to his crew, they should technically be the pound-for-pound strongest crew with a strong average. The other emperors are going down to Luffy and his peers. Shanks being left to Teach suggests that he's a level above the others, as he's likely to be the only emperor who will go down to another emperor. Both of these emperors have more plot relevance than the rest, too. That's not even going into Shanks' better portrayal or plot significance.

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## Sherlōck (Mar 6, 2018)

Dunno said:


> You have Kizaru, Fujitora and Ryokogyu above Aokiji?



I would have put Aokiji in same ranking as current C3 if he didn't lose a leg.


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## Deleted member 211714 (Mar 6, 2018)

Don't see how Aokiji losing a leg makes any difference. His fruit abilities enable him to make a solid replacement.
He can still imbue Haki similar to how someone can extend Haki to something like a sword.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Mar 6, 2018)

losing a leg matters

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Deleted member 211714 (Mar 6, 2018)

Maybe it would matter to someone like Kyros. Aokiji has shown a way around it, though. The difference in power should honestly be negligible.


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## ZE (Mar 6, 2018)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> Shanks *is* important, you are just quite overrating *how* important/strong, @Seraphoenix kun


Don't think people are overrating his importance. 
Shanks is the type of character that will  never be defeated, or if he is there's gonna be a reason for his defeat... like a low blow or maybe due to adverse circumstances. And that's where Teach will enter. He's gonna be the one to end Shanks and that will mark Teach as the final villain.

Yes, Teach defeating Shanks will confirm him as the final villain. Let that sink in.
Oda will use Shanks to to tell us: "you see this guy, he's strong enough to be the final villain"
And I don't think Shank's defeat will be due to him being inferior. Oda would never do that to Luffy's benchmark. He's not even the type of character to sustain lots of injuries. He's not a tank like WB or Kaido. He'll remain untouched till Teach gives him a fatal low blow.


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## Dunno (Mar 6, 2018)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> didnt Aokiji lose half a leg ?





Sherlōck said:


> I would have put Aokiji in same ranking as current C3 if he didn't lose a leg.


Fujitora has lost his eyes though. Losing body parts isn't a big deal in One Piece.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Sherlōck (Mar 6, 2018)

Dunno said:


> Fujitora has lost his eyes though. Losing body parts isn't a big deal in One Piece.



The fucker can see everything except face & no matter how much you can compensate a prosthetic leg can never replace the real one.


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## Seraphoenix (Mar 7, 2018)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> losing a leg matters


Agreed. Two-armed Shanks for instance, would be Pirate King. Oda had to nerf him.

Reactions: Winner 1 | Informative 1 | Optimistic 1


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## xmysticgohanx (Mar 8, 2018)

Whitebeard
Kaido
Blackbeard / Akainu / Mihawk
Shanks / Aokiji / Dragon
Garp / Big Mom

That's pre skip Aokiji. If we're talking current Aokiji then:

Whitebeard
Kaido
Blackbeard / Akainu / Mihawk
Shanks / Aokiji / Dragon
Garp / Big Mom
Fujitora / Kong

Reactions: Agree 1 | Dislike 1


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## DA hawk (Mar 8, 2018)

With the pace the manga is going(real-time), I'm thinking EOS time-line wise is just around the corner.
Therefore, my list:

BB/shanks
kaido/akainu
Dragon
BM/kizaru/kuzan
Ryokugyu/fujitora/Mihawk.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Big Mom (Mar 11, 2018)

1. Kaidou
2. Shanks
3. Big Mom
4. Blackbeard
5. Akainu
6. Aokiji
7. Kizaru
8. New Admiral
9. Fujitora/Mihawk
10. Dragon

Dragon may be higher, but the fact that Blackbeard was able to destroy his entire base of operations doesn't favor him. The New Admiral's placement is entirely unknown, but I feel like, storywise, Fujitora's principles will hold him back, so I ranked the new one higher than him. I also feel Blackbeard still has a ways to go before he challenges Shanks and becomes the strongest. He is still new. Big Mom is ranked higher, considering it was shown that she is leagues above Katakuri and still out of Luffy's reach.


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## Luceus (Mar 12, 2018)

Yonko
Admirals
Mihawk maybe
Some unknown


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## Silver2195 (Mar 12, 2018)

1. Kaidou
2. Blackbeard
3. Mihawk
4. Big Mom
5. Shanks
6. Akainu
7. Ryokugyu
8. Kizaru
9. Garp
10. Dragon
Honorable mentions: Fujitora, Beckman, Loki, Sabo

The differences in power at this level are probably mostly pretty small, especially for #7 and below (including the honorable mentions). It's possible that Shanks would defeat Akainu and Akainu would defeat Mihawk, but Mihawk would defeat Shanks. I do think Mihawk has to be able to defeat Shanks, though; it would undermine Zoro's dream if the World's Strongest Swordsman title didn't at least mean that much. Shanks also lacks either the absurd destructive power of Whitebeard/Blackbeard or the absurd durability of Kaidou/Big Mom, which sort of makes him the weakest Emperor by default. But he's still an Emperor, which makes me think he has an exceptionally strong crew to compensate, so Beckman is likely the strongest first mate.


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## xmysticgohanx (Mar 13, 2018)

xmysticgohanx said:


> Whitebeard
> Kaido
> Blackbeard / Akainu / Mihawk
> Shanks / Aokiji / Dragon
> ...


 lol i forgot to take out Aokiji


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## Admiral Kizaru (Mar 13, 2018)

xmysticgohanx said:


> lol i forgot to take out Aokiji



There's a more egregious problem with your list than that tbh. 


What happened xmystic? I thought we were friends and you do my namesake like that?

Reactions: Like 1


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## xmysticgohanx (Mar 13, 2018)

Admiral Kizaru said:


> There's a more egregious problem with your list than that tbh.
> 
> 
> What happened xmystic? I thought we were friends and you do my namesake like that?


 Kizaru is right under that

Here's my full list lol:

Whitebeard
Kaido
Blackbeard / Akainu / Mihawk
Shanks / Aokiji / Dragon
Garp / Big Mom
Fujitora / Kong
Kizaru / Rayleigh / Sengoku
Weevil

Big Mom needs work but I don't care enough to think about that till I update my tier list again

Reactions: Like 1


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## Quipchaque (Mar 14, 2018)

1.kaido
2.akainu
3.blackbeard
4.shanks
5.dragon
6.aokiji
7.shiryu
8.mihawk
9.big mom
10.kizaru


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## Samehadaman (Mar 21, 2018)

ZE said:


> He's not even the type of character to sustain lots of injuries. He's not a tank like WB or Kaido. He'll remain untouched till Teach gives him a fatal low blow.



Blackbeard messed up his face already, and a Sea King bit his arm off.

Reactions: Like 2 | Informative 1


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## Zuhaitz (Mar 21, 2018)

First the Yonkous and their equivalents in the marine and revolt. and Marco as an ex FM of a Yonko (and the Gorosei stated that he was the closet to a Yonko)
1.Kaido
2.Dragon
3.Akainu
4.BM
5.Shanks
6.BB
7.Marco
Then their first mates
8.Aokiji (It seems to work for BB or maybe he secretly works for the rev army)
9.Kizaru (Akainu's equivalent to a FM)
10.Rest of FMs: Shank's pseudo FM Mihawk, Katakuri, Jack, Issho, etc.

Reactions: Like 1 | Tier Specialist 3


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## Daisuke Jigen (Mar 21, 2018)

Zuhaitz said:


> 7.Marco
> 8.Aokiji
> 9.Kizaru
> 10.Rest of FMs: Shank's pseudo FM Mihawk, Katakuri, Jack, Issho, etc.





Zuhaitz said:


> Marco as an ex FM of a Yonko (*and the Gorosei stated that he was the closet to a Yonko*)


Wrong. The Elders stated that Marco AND the rest of the WB Remnants might have been able to stop Blackbeard. And more importantly, the Elders were wrong, as Marco and co were *obliterated* a year later.


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## Elite Uchiha (Mar 21, 2018)

1. Dragon

Everyone else.


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## Kylo Ren (Mar 22, 2018)

Kaido
Dragon - Shanks
BB
Big Mom - Akainu
Aokiji
Kizaru
Fujitora
Mihawk
Greenbull - even though we still don't know him his title alone is enough to put him above Katakuri.
Katakuri

Reactions: Like 1


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## Zuhaitz (Mar 23, 2018)

Daisuke Jigen said:


> Wrong. The Elders stated that Marco AND the rest of the WB Remnants might have been able to stop Blackbeard. And more importantly, the Elders were wrong, as Marco and co were *obliterated* a year later.


Yet he is alive, Nekomamushi is looking for him.


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## Daisuke Jigen (Mar 23, 2018)

Zuhaitz said:


> Yet he is alive, Nekomamushi is looking for him.


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## Zuhaitz (Mar 24, 2018)

Because he is among the most powerful characters, being the character that the Gorosei thought that was the closer to become a Yonko.


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## CraneBeatsBane (Mar 25, 2018)

1. Kaido
2. Shanks
3. Blackbeard
4. Big Mom
5. Dragon
6. Akainu
7. Kizaru
8. Aokiji
9. Issho
10. Rayleigh


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## TheWiggian (Mar 28, 2018)

I love how most people don't even have a World's Strongest Title holder on their list.

Like the denial is real.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 2


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## DA hawk (Mar 28, 2018)

1-5: in no order
Shanks, Kaidou, BB, Akainu, Dragon.

6-11: in no order
BM, kizaru, aokigi, fujitora, ryugokyu, mihawk.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Nox (Mar 30, 2018)

1. Kaido
2. Akainu
3. Shanks
4. Dragon
5. Blackbeard
6. Kuzan
7. Ryokogyu
8. Kizaru
9. Issho
10. MUM


*Spoiler*: __ 





Kaido 
Akainu - Shanks - Dragon 
Blackbeard 
Kuzan - Ryokogyu 
Kizaru - Issho
MUM
*Note:* IMO once BB beats one of the 3 humans above he'll become WSM.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## Quipchaque (Apr 1, 2018)

Pirateer said:


> 1. Shanks
> 2. Blackbeard
> 3. Kaido
> 4. Dragon
> ...



Rayleigh on 10th place and then you cry and call me troll when I neg you for shit like this.


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## Dunno (Apr 1, 2018)

DiscoZoro20 said:


> Rayleigh on 10th place and then you cry and call me troll when I neg you for shit like this.


Coming from the guy who has Big Mom in 9th place.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Quipchaque (Apr 1, 2018)

Dunno said:


> Coming from the guy who has Big Mom in 9th place.



Oh please that is only a fraction as ridiculous as someone saying old Ray is top 10.

Also your opinion about old whitebeard as strongest is waaaay more controversial so don't give me that face.


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## Dunno (Apr 1, 2018)

DiscoZoro20 said:


> Oh please that is only a fraction as ridiculous as someone saying old Ray is top 10.
> 
> Also your opinion about old whitebeard as strongest is waaaay more controversial so don't give me that face.


Sure, the opinion that Whitebeard was the WSM is controversial...

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 5


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## Admiral Kizaru (Apr 1, 2018)

DiscoZoro20 said:


> Also your opinion about old whitebeard as strongest is waaaay more controversial so don't give me that face.



That's not controversial at all tbh. 


In fact it's only really this forum where you get a significant percentage that wants to ignore Oda's WSM title because they didn't like what Oda showed at MF.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 4 | Winner 1 | Disagree 1 | Dislike 1


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## Kai (Apr 1, 2018)

Admiral Kizaru said:


> That's not controversial at all tbh.
> 
> 
> In fact it's only really this forum where you get a significant percentage that wants to ignore Oda's WSM title because they didn't like what Oda showed at MF.


True. Then the same also applies to those ignoring what Mihawk showed at MF, and I'm talking about the first slash against WB specifically.

Keeping his bouts against Daz Bones and Crocodile in perspective is one thing. Then you have a large sample of people who actually believe in their hearts Mihawk gave WB the same test treatment like he treated Luffy or Vista

Reactions: Winner 1 | Tier Specialist 2


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## Quipchaque (Apr 1, 2018)

Dunno said:


> Sure, the opinion that Whitebeard was the WSM is controversial...


It most certainly is if we talk about old whitebeard.. Or was everyone agreeing with you on that? Most certainly not, that's what we call controversial. Either way Ray at 10.spot is just  regardless what you or me believe.


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## Quipchaque (Apr 1, 2018)

Admiral Kizaru said:


> That's not controversial at all tbh.
> 
> 
> In fact it's only really this forum where you get a significant percentage that wants to ignore Oda's WSM title because they didn't like what Oda showed at MF.



That is a frankly laughable claim. There are most certainly more people than just those from one little forum that would argue against that title. But I guess you also believe whitebeard who could barely stand after being shot and getting half his face burned off right before he died would still be considered strongest man because it's apparently an iron clad rule that titles are eternal. Let's rip off 2 of his legs as well and you will call him WSM. Is that truly what you believe? I don't think so.

Oh and here is a good one kizaru. If admirals are introduced with a narration box that says "admiral of mhq fujitora" and he retires 20 years later... Is he still an admiral? After all that is what the narration box says. I will be waiting.


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## Admiral Kizaru (Apr 1, 2018)

DiscoZoro20 said:


> That is a frankly laughable claim. There are most certainly more people than just those from one little forum that would argue against that title. But I guess you also believe whitebeard who could barely stand after being shot and getting half his face burned off right before he died would still be considered strongest man because it's apparently an iron clad rule that titles are eternal. Let's rip off 2 of his legs as well and you will call him WSM. Is that truly what you believe? I don't think so.
> 
> Oh and here is a good one kizaru. If admirals are introduced with a narration box that says "admiral of mhq fujitora" and he retires 20 years later... Is he still an admiral? After all that is what the narration box says. I will be waiting.




It's not as widespread anywhere else.

And yes, WB with half his head missing likely isn't the WSM at that point. Nor is the WB with a massive magmafist shaped hole punched through his chest. But the WB that arrived at MF was the WSM.


How is the example even remotely comparable? WB was introduced as the WSM what only a few weeks before MF, not twenty years before that? Just what do you think happened in the short period of time to make him lose his title?


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## Pirateer (Apr 1, 2018)

I can give you a non-outrageous top10 if you want:

1. Kaido
2. Akainu
3. Teach
4. Shanks
5. Kizaru/Big Mom
6. Big Mom/Kizaru
7. Aokiji
8. Mihawk
9. Fujitora
10. Dragon/Ryokugyu/Rayleigh/possibly Kong



DiscoZoro20 said:


> Rayleigh on 10th place and then you cry and call me troll when I neg you for shit like this



I don't care about neg rep rofl and I've never cried or called you troll for neg rep 

Also if you think that it's inconceivable that the Pirate King's FM, the person who trained Luffy to defeat Katakuri (we could logically conclude that Rayleigh is above Katakuri by this feat, and possibly even higher), is nowhere near top10 in the world, it's just another example of you knowing nothing about the characters

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Pirateer (Apr 1, 2018)

DiscoZoro20 said:


> 1.kaido
> 2.akainu
> 3.blackbeard
> 4.shanks
> ...



Dude I just saw this and you call me out for putting rayleigh at 10, and you have FUCKING SHIRYU AT 7 ABOVE BIG MOM LOL

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Quipchaque (Apr 2, 2018)

Admiral Kizaru said:


> It's not as widespread anywhere else.
> 
> And yes, WB with half his head missing likely isn't the WSM at that point. Nor is the WB with a massive magmafist shaped hole punched through his chest. But the WB that arrived at MF was the WSM.
> 
> ...




No you are just missing the point. It is not about when wb has been introduced like that and how much time passed but that the title wasnt consistently shown as a true statement. So what actually supports your argument that it has to be true when he's been introduced? You wouldn't even be able to prove that his condition didn't get worse afterwards, just random assumption that it did not. so it's just empty hype no matter how you look at it. And on top of that you ignore multiple statements in the Manga that go against what you say.


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## Quipchaque (Apr 2, 2018)

Pirateer said:


> I can give you a non-outrageous top10 if you want:
> 
> 1. Kaido
> 2. Akainu
> ...



Now now let's not lie my big boy. You try to counter neg me every time I give you a neg rep,  try to make it look like trolling just because I gave you those negs for absurdly biased claims like Ray in top 10 and the likes and are on my case ever since that for every post of me you find... You ain't fooling anyone.

And yes Shiryuu is very likely stronger than big mom if he is currently at his prime level... Sorry if that rustles you honey.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Dunno (Apr 2, 2018)

DiscoZoro20 said:


> It most certainly is if we talk about old whitebeard.. Or was everyone agreeing with you on that? Most certainly not, that's what we call controversial. Either way Ray at 10.spot is just  regardless what you or me believe.


The one guy who matters is quite clear on the matter though. 



DiscoZoro20 said:


> That is a frankly laughable claim. There are most certainly more people than just those from one little forum that would argue against that title. But I guess you also believe whitebeard who could barely stand after being shot and getting half his face burned off right before he died would still be considered strongest man because it's apparently an iron clad rule that titles are eternal. Let's rip off 2 of his legs as well and you will call him WSM. Is that truly what you believe? I don't think so.
> 
> Oh and here is a good one kizaru. If admirals are introduced with a narration box that says "admiral of mhq fujitora" and he retires 20 years later... Is he still an admiral? After all that is what the narration box says. I will be waiting.



Getting hurt doesn't make you weaker. It makes you injured. Whitebeard was injured after his heart attack, the magma fist to the chest and the bullets, which means that he might not be able to beat a character weaker than himself. It doesn't make him weaker than that character though. Post-Katakuri Luffy wouldn't be able to beat Sanji for example, but that doesn't mean that post-Katakuri Luffy is weaker than Sanji, it just means that Luffy is injured and fatigued. I can agree that the magma facial actually made him weaker though, since it permanently affects his fighting ability.


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## Admiral Kizaru (Apr 2, 2018)

DiscoZoro20 said:


> No you are just missing the point. It is not about when wb has been introduced like that and how much time passed but that the title wasnt consistently shown as a true statement. So what actually supports your argument that it has to be true when he's been introduced? You wouldn't even be able to prove that his condition didn't get worse afterwards, just random assumption that it did not. so it's just empty hype no matter how you look at it. And on top of that you ignore multiple statements in the Manga that go against what you say.



What else supports that old WB being the WSM?

Well other than it being_ fucking stated_ in the manga, we have the likes of Buggy & Sengoku referring to him as such and hyping up his legendary & godlike status as the only person who could match Roger and the current ruler of the seas. 

Sengoku even candidly admitting that WB was at the top of the pile even after seeing him perform during MF. 




If you want to disagree with that fine, but you the onus is on you to find some credible evidence to suggest otherwise . 

And no, you being disappointed in WB's performance at MF because it didn't adhere to your _own personal _interpretation of OP power levels because it gave the Admirals too much credit for not looking bad against him _doesn't _cut it. Neither is you wanting to wank Shanks or whatever character you want instead.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Gohara (Apr 2, 2018)

We have no idea if characters in One Piece would take away Whitebeard's title factoring in disadvantages so there's basically no evidence for applying the title to that specific version of his character.

And we have no idea if Sengoku was saying "Even with those disadvantages he's still the number 1 most powerful character in the series" or "He's the most powerful character in the series so even with those disadvantages we still have to be cautious".

I have no issue with ranking the beginning of that Arc's version of Whitebeard's character as the #1 most powerful character in the series because there's no empirical evidence against it.  But there's no reason that characters can't be superior to a disadvantaged version of Whitebeard but the title is still there because there's no proof on the contrary and/or that they wouldn't take the title away based on specific disadvantages.


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## Dunno (Apr 2, 2018)

Gohara said:


> We have no idea if characters in One Piece would take away Whitebeard's title factoring in disadvantages so there's basically no evidence for applying the title to that specific version of his character.
> 
> And we have no idea if Sengoku was saying "Even with those disadvantages he's still the number 1 most powerful character in the series" or "He's the most powerful character in the series so even with those disadvantages we still have to be cautious".
> 
> I have no issue with ranking the beginning of that Arc's version of Whitebeard's character as the #1 most powerful character in the series because there's no empirical evidence against it.  But there's no reason that characters can't be superior to a disadvantaged version of Whitebeard but the title is still there because there's no proof on the contrary and/or that they wouldn't take the title away based on specific disadvantages.


But the disadvantaged version of Whitebeard wouldn't be weaker than the non-disadvantaged one,he would only be disadvantaged. In the same way, Luffy currently isn't weaker than he was before fighting Katakuri, even if he at the moment wouldn't be able to beat that previous version of himself. It is possible and even likely that Whitebeard at some point during the war lost the ability to, in his at that point current condition, defeat the second strongest man in the world, but it doesn't make him weaker than said man.


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## xmysticgohanx (Apr 3, 2018)

Kai said:


> True. Then the same also applies to those ignoring what Mihawk showed at MF, and I'm talking about the first slash against WB specifically.
> 
> Keeping his bouts against Daz Bones and Crocodile in perspective is one thing. Then you have a large sample of people who actually believe in their hearts Mihawk gave WB the same test treatment like he treated Luffy or Vista


 I debunked the Jozu thing ages ago

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Gohara (Apr 3, 2018)

@ Dunno.

I don't necessarily see any difference between besting a character and being superior to them but if you agree that there are some characters who can best that version of Whitebeard's character then okay.


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## Canute87 (Apr 3, 2018)

Admirals (Kizaru, Fujitora, Akainu, Green Bull)

Ex-Admirals (Aokiji)

Shit admirals take up like half already.
Yonkou (3 /4)

Dragon (1)

Mihawk deserves a mention (1) Problem is if you take out mihawk you have to take out shanks.

So i just took out one of the yonkou. 

That's about 10.


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## DoctorLaw (Apr 3, 2018)

Zuhaitz said:


> *7.Marco*



Gorosei said Marco and the remnants of the WB pirates could stop Teach, meaning him and his crew and agenda. Marco couldn't even hurt Akainu, and Aokiji fought him for 10 days.


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## Quipchaque (Apr 5, 2018)

Admiral Kizaru said:


> What else supports that old WB being the WSM?
> 
> Well other than it being_ fucking stated_ in the manga, we have the likes of Buggy & Sengoku referring to him as such and hyping up his legendary & godlike status as the only person who could match Roger and the current ruler of the seas.
> 
> ...



There are multiple evidences and as You yourself admitted The Statement Cant remain true forever. Heck that are even The exact Same words of The shirohige himself. That itself should end The debate. On top of that we have characters Like Marco and crocodile who practically mock whitebeard. So honestly There is nothing left To Argue.

And lol how in The World can You possibly believe that The Admirals would be relevant for me in this Argument? The only one that fought whitebeard For an extended Period of time was akainu. Now Go Back To my top 10 Chara list i posted Here and Tell me with a straight Face that im trying To downplay akainu. You Act Like i hate Admirals Just because i am Not convinced of Their Performance.


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## Admiral Kizaru (Apr 5, 2018)

DiscoZoro20 said:


> There are multiple evidences and as You yourself admitted The Statement Cant remain true forever. Heck that are even The exact Same words of The shirohige himself. That itself should end The debate. On top of that we have characters Like Marco and crocodile who practically mock whitebeard. So honestly There is nothing left To Argue.
> 
> And lol how in The World can You possibly believe that The Admirals would be relevant for me in this Argument? The only one that fought whitebeard For an extended Period of time was akainu. Now Go Back To my top 10 Chara list i posted Here and Tell me with a straight Face that im trying To downplay akainu. You Act Like i hate Admirals Just because i am Not convinced of Their Performance.



All those statements from Marco & Crocodile mean is that Old WB had depreciated from his prime version which was obvious, and that he would have fared better against the Navy in his prime state which isn't surprising as you're talking about the guy that once matched Roger. They don't mean that others had overtaken him. It was a legacy thing from Oda - he wanted to protect WB's reputation & legacy because he was ultimately setting him up for an L at the end of the arc. And he definitely succeeded at that given how well WB is regarded by the majority of the OP fanbase despite essentially losing.

As @Dunno talks about above, you're confusing injuries with being weaker. Common sense tells you that losing half your head or a major hole in your chest should weaken you considerably, though it's all a moot point because as Dunno correctly states both of those injuries inflicted on him by Akainu would have likely eventually killed him on their own so he would have lost the title then regardless.

But the stuff people constantly refer to suggest that WB wasn't the WSM such as his age & health was already baked into the cake when he was introduced as the WSM - it's not like he aged significantly or deteriorated in the few weeks between then and the start of MF.

Aokiji handled him fine and if anything, was possibly even getting the slight better of him in their brief scuffle. Likewise Kizaru. Ironically the one who had the worst interaction was Akainu and there were mitigating circumstances for that. The tier specialists on here don't like so they over exaggerate just how badly nerfed WB was so they can protect their lists. It's ridiculous.


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## Quipchaque (Apr 5, 2018)

Admiral Kizaru said:


> All those statements from Marco & Crocodile mean is that Old WB had depreciated from his prime version which was obvious, and that he would have fared better against the Navy in his prime state which isn't surprising as you're talking about the guy that once matched Roger. They don't mean that others had overtaken him. It was a legacy thing from Oda - he wanted to protect WB's reputation & legacy because he was ultimately setting him up for an L at the end of the arc. And he definitely succeeded at that given how well WB is regarded by the majority of the OP fanbase despite essentially losing.
> 
> As @Dunno talks about above, you're confusing injuries with being weaker. Common sense tells you that losing half your head or a major hole in your chest should weaken you considerably, though it's all a moot point because as Dunno correctly states both of those injuries inflicted on him by Akainu would have likely eventually killed him on their own so he would have lost the title then regardless.
> 
> ...



But whitebeard himself says otherwise. You are trying too much to cover up the indication of all those statements. Honestly I think it is insulting to all the charas and the general theme of the Manga that you truly believe the guy who says "no ship will be able to carry me into the new Era any longer" at the end of that same arc is supposed to be stronger than the likes of kaido... Shanks... Mihawk... Akainu.. Aokiji etc etc. This Manga is about the next gen surpassing the former one and marineford was about the passing of Whitebeard's torch. Not about stagnation and new Gens being overshadowed by old has-beens. You clearly haven't understood the message oda has been trying to give us.

And no I don't mistake injuries for being weaker... But those injuries are a consequence of being weaker. That aside what I think is even more staggering is that you say whitebeard was still at the top... Yet you would likely say old Ray, old garp, old sengoku who are all from that same gen and on Par with whitebeard are weaker than most if not all of the admirals. That is your typical hypocrisy I have to point out yet again. Either you give all of them the same treatment and say old gen is above new gen or you say they are likely all weaker. 

And before you respond to that last paragraph keep in mind that whitebeard was visibly the one who has been the most affected by old age, just saying. So it makes no sense if you attempt to treat him like an outlier now.


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## Dunno (Apr 5, 2018)

Kai said:


> True. Then the same also applies to those ignoring what Mihawk showed at MF, and I'm talking about the first slash against WB specifically.
> 
> Keeping his bouts against Daz Bones and Crocodile in perspective is one thing. Then you have a large sample of people who actually believe in their hearts Mihawk gave WB the same test treatment like he treated Luffy or Vista


Who are these people ignoring Mihawk's slash at MF? Mihawk used a reasonably strong slash just as a test against Whitebeard. We can however see his posture right before the slash, and it's not one which indicates that he's using his full power. Here is the panel:  

And Jozu stopping it with a moderate level of difficulty isn't strange at all. Mihawk isn't strong enough to be able to easily dispatch of a Yonkou top 2 commander he's not even aiming at from kilometres away, but that is true for any character. If people were claiming that Mihawk could mid diff Prime Roger, then the fact that Jozu could stop his slash would be a solid counter-argument, but I haven't seen anyone claim such things.


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## Admiral Kizaru (Apr 5, 2018)

DiscoZoro20 said:


> But whitebeard himself says otherwise. You are trying too much to cover up the indication of all those statements. Honestly I think it is insulting to all the charas and the general theme of the Manga that you truly believe the guy who says "no ship will be able to carry me into the new Era any longer" at the end of that same arc is supposed to be stronger than the likes of kaido... Shanks... Mihawk... Akainu.. Aokiji etc etc. This Manga is about the next gen surpassing the former one and marineford was about the passing of Whitebeard's torch. Not about stagnation and new Gens being overshadowed by old has-beens. You clearly haven't understood the message oda has been trying to give us.



No Whitebeard doesn't say such a thing! This is just another textbook case of some OPfans with bad reading comprehension misinterpreting a line, it spreading and it then becoming head cannon to a lot of people.




He says "_I can't remain the strongest forever", _NOT ..... "_I'm not the strongest anymore". _They mean two completely different things.

This was in reply to Crocodile to justify his strength loss. What he's basically saying here is that eventually he won't be the strongest (WSM) likely either due to death or because he knows he's losing strength with age & deteriorating health and at some point the depreciation will cause him to cede that title.That point _wasn't_ the start of MF however. If anything it supports the notion that he knew that he was still the strongest then.


And no it isn't. You've been reading way too much Naruto. This is a manga about *LUFFY *becoming PK - he's the_ only one_ with the right & capacity to surpass the best of the old generation (Roger & WB) as the one who's inherited Roger's will and who will follow in his footsteps as PK. It's not a manga about ultimately irrelevant stepping stone characters like BM, Kaido & Shanks - it astounds me the number of people on here that _still _don't get that and haven't realised yet that none of these trio will be around come EoS to play a part when the shit really hits the fan.

The only other one who may feature in that conversation is Teach. Possibly Akainu as well depending on how Oda handles his role as one of the FV's.



DiscoZoro20 said:


> And no I don't mistake injuries for being weaker... But those injuries are a consequence of being weaker.



Yeah it couldn't be because he was trying to run a gauntlet of three of the strongest dudes on the planet, all with immense lethality & power and despite being the WSM, he was totally outgunned as a result of that?

You're literally doing here what I commented on in my final paragraph of my previous post. 




DiscoZoro20 said:


> That aside what I think is even more staggering is that you say whitebeard was still at the top... Yet you would likely say old Ray, old garp, old sengoku who are all from that same gen and on Par with whitebeard are weaker than most if not all of the admirals. That is your typical hypocrisy I have to point out yet again. Either you give all of them the same treatment and say old gen is above new gen or you say they are likely all weaker.
> 
> And before you respond to that last paragraph keep in mind that whitebeard was visibly the one who has been the most affected by old age, just saying. So it makes no sense if you attempt to treat him like an outlier now.



Wait what is this idiocy? You create this moronic strawman and accuse me of hypocrisy, despite the fact that it's:

A) A strawman
B) Not even hypocrisy even if I said it

Were Sengoku, Garp or Rayleigh ever introduced into the manga as the WSM? Were any of them stated to have clashed equally with Roger? Were any of them stated to be the ruler of the seas? The answer to all that is no. So how in god's name is that even a sensible comparison? You're entering Gohara territory with your stupidity here.

Yes they've also declined in strength as with WB but WB was starting from a much _higher _level as the only equal to Roger and so he has far more room to decline but still not lose his WSM title. It's really a very simple concept to grasp.  

For the record I think MF Garp is ~ MF Admirals with Sengoku & Rayleigh a step behind which seems reasonable as Garp has the next best portrayal & hype out of the old generation group after WB.

Reactions: Winner 2


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## Quipchaque (Apr 6, 2018)

Admiral Kizaru said:


> No Whitebeard doesn't say such a thing! This is just another textbook case of some OPfans with bad reading comprehension misinterpreting a line, it spreading and it then becoming head cannon to a lot of people.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I must say it is astounding that you believe all this nonsense even so whitebeard has already been an old sick man ever since his introduction with nurses all around treating him. Anyway the fact that whitebeard said what you cited right after being stabbed seems to me like a justification that he doesn't want us, you and crocodile to overrate him.. Yet you do it anyway and based on nothing but vague interpretation that you ultimately can't prove unless you resort to circular reasoning. So at the very least you should admit that it is arguable what whitebeard implies but of course you wont which is why I will give it a rest after this post.

No luffy is not the only one with the right and capacity to surpass the old gen.  Again you are completely ignoring Canon statements like whitebeard saying he has human limitations like anyone else. No idea why you would conclude there would be any sensible reason that important figures like kaido, shanks and aokiji, kizaru can't surpass an out of prime whitebeard. He isn't God maybe you need a reminder of that. Also it is completely illogical to assume that, since most of these characters are part of the EoS plot with hyped and likely close battles against the main protagonists who at that point in time have to be close in strength to prime whitebeard. So it only follows suit that the mid generation has to be closer to prime legends than old versions. And if you look at the current power creep you should be aware of this for a long time.

Whitebeard didn't run a gauntlet against the 3 admirals. Aokiji and kizaru literally attacked him only once and aokijis hit didn't even have an effect at all. Talk about strawman arguments.

My argument is neither idiocy nor a strawman. I would appreciate it if you stop using insults I don't use them against you either. Sengoku, garp and Rayleigh might not have been the WSM, ruler of the sea (which is pretty much the same thing BTW) or perfect equals to whitebeard but they were evidently close rivals that whitebeard himself respected so there is no point to bring this up. You are falling for the hype trap that is all. The title doesn't justify that whitebeard can decline the most in strength yet somehow Magically remain the strongest.

And for the record I believe more often than not gohara makes very logical arguments and assertions. Sometimes I disagree of course but you don't have to take a jab at him every time just because he doesn't jump on the same bandwagons as you.


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## Admiral Kizaru (Apr 6, 2018)

DiscoZoro20 said:


> I must say it is astounding that you believe all this nonsense even so whitebeard has already been an old sick man ever since his introduction with nurses all around treating him. Anyway the fact that whitebeard said what you cited right after being stabbed seems to me like a justification that he doesn't want us, you and crocodile to overrate him.. Yet you do it anyway and based on nothing* but vague interpretation *that you ultimately can't prove unless you resort to circular reasoning. So at the very least you should admit that it is arguable what whitebeard implies but of course you wont which is why I will give it a rest after this post..





There's nothing vague about my interpretation. It's the most obvious, sensible & logical one to take because it's what Oda almost literally tells us in the manga. 

This is reflected in the fact that my opinion (old WB was WSM) is what the vast majority of OPfans subscribe to. In itself it's not categorical proof it's correct but it _is _proof that it isn't vague. It's your position that is vague because it goes contrary to the manga & what everyone else believes:

*Oda*: WB was the WSM!

*OL*: No Oda is talking shit!! WB wasn't the WSM and here's why .....

There's nothing circular about accepting what the manga tells us.  

The thing is you're acting like your own fanciful interpretation of a few lines holds more weight than it constantly being reiterated that WB was WSM. It really doesn't. You can interpret WB's statement how you want to, even though I outlined above what he says accurately, but proportionally there's far more substance to believing that old WB was the WSM. 




DiscoZoro20 said:


> No luffy is not the only one with the right and capacity to surpass the old gen.  Again you are completely ignoring Canon statements like whitebeard saying he has human limitations like anyone else. No idea why you would conclude there would be any sensible reason that important figures like kaido, shanks and aokiji, kizaru can't surpass an out of prime whitebeard. He isn't God maybe you need a reminder of that. Also it is completely illogical to assume that, since most of these characters are part of the EoS plot with hyped and likely close battles against the main protagonists who at that point in time have to be close in strength to prime whitebeard. So it only follows suit that the mid generation has to be closer to prime legends than old versions. And if you look at the current power creep you should be aware of this for a long time..



Yeah, you really haven't presented any argument to go against WB's WSM title other than, "_he's not a god" (_never claimed he was one) and repeatedly claiming it's "illogical" without explaining why. 

And this goes to the stuff below as well but close or being rivals =/= same strength. Smoker & Luffy are rivals yet the latter is vastly more powerful than him at this stage. 

The only people that will be around to challenge EoS Luffy are Teach or Akainu. Have you missed the obvious signs of where the story is heading to? 

Power creep? There's very little to that in OP. In fact that's one of the few things Oda handles really well. See how Aokiji's top tier feat of freezing the sea with no noticeable stamina drop, almost 500 chapters ago still remains impressive for a top tier feat still to this day.


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## Quipchaque (Apr 6, 2018)

Admiral Kizaru said:


> There's nothing vague about my interpretation. It's the most obvious, sensible & logical one to take because it's what Oda almost literally tells us in the manga.
> 
> This is reflected in the fact that my opinion (old WB was WSM) is what the vast majority of OPfans subscribe to. In itself it's not categorical proof it's correct but it _is _proof that it isn't vague. It's your position that is vague because it goes contrary to the manga & what everyone else believes:
> 
> ...



Disagree and tired of this. You Cant even admit that You rely on an assumed Interpretation of whitebeards statement. A Lot of people cite this Same quote as a counter Argument against The Idea that WB was  still wsm so going by Your Logic It Must be true that You can Read different meanings into It, since You Just Said Popularity of  opinion = credibility of The Argument. As Always lets deny this though and Claim that your Argument is absolutely flawless. Im not going To Go Further into this If that is What You will Resort To Just To Claim "No i am right!".


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## Marik Swift (Apr 10, 2018)

I'm here...

To put an end to this war!!!

Kaidou
Dragon
Shanks
Akainu
Mihawk
Big Mom
Blackbeard
Aokiji
9-10 is pretty much a toss up between Fujitora, Green Bull, Kizaru & whoever other unrevealed character is left.
​While I don't give in to the whole Yonko > Admirals rhetoric, I definitely don't see Oda making Shanks, a character with relations to Luffy, anything but a top 3.

The same logic applies to Dragon, especially being Luffy's father, in spite of his lack of feats.

Mihawk is of course up there if Shanks is up there, albeit he doesn't have ties to Luffy & Akainu overall shits on everyone else feats wise, so I rate Mihawk just below Shanks & Akainu who I see as equal.


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## Nox (Apr 10, 2018)

@Admiral Kizaru @DiscoZoro20 riveting tale chaps. If you dont mind I might procure your services when to ghost write my dissertation sometime in the future. Glad you could both agree Old WB > All Top Tiers and that MF WB although powerful man was the shell of himself in the aftermath of the chest wounds.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Admiral Kizaru (Apr 10, 2018)

NOX said:


> @Admiral Kizaru @DiscoZoro20 riveting tale chaps. If you dont mind I might procure your services when to ghost write my dissertation sometime in the future. Glad you could both agree Old WB > All Top Tiers and that MF WB although powerful man was the shell of himself in the aftermath of the chest wounds.



Well it was hard but eventually not even DiscoZoro could eventually ignore it literally.being.fucking. state in the manga that Old Wb was WSM.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Quipchaque (Apr 10, 2018)

Where do You 2 get The Idea from that i agree To this head Canon? Either way im tired of this debate so please dont drag me into It again.


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## IchijiNijiSanji (Apr 10, 2018)

4 yonkos 4 admirals dragon and mihawk


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## Amol (Apr 15, 2018)

1)Garp
.
.
.
.
2)Pwngoat
3)Whitebeard's remaining half beard
4) Who the fuck cares anymore.


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## zorokuma (Apr 16, 2018)

blackbeard
kaido
akainu
dragon
shanks
big mom
aokiji
kizaru
fujitora
ray


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## Mister LoLz (Apr 18, 2018)

The 4 Yonkou are a must same as the 4 Admiral's. Now throw in a person with a World's Strongest Title and someone with hype that exceeds everyone's else and you got the top 10.

Shanks
Blackbeard 
Big Mom
Kaidou

Akainu
Kizaru
Green Bull
Fujitora

Mihawk
Dragon

No chance to determine who should be at the very top as they should be extremely close to each other.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Quipchaque (Apr 18, 2018)

Mister LoLz said:


> The 4 Yonkou are a must same as the 4 Admiral's. Now throw in a person with a World's Strongest Title and someone with hype that exceeds everyone's else and you got the top 10.
> 
> Shanks
> Blackbeard
> ...



What about Aokiji?


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## Mister LoLz (Apr 18, 2018)

DiscoZoro20 said:


> What about Aokiji?



He is definitely a candidate. It's just that Dragon's hype is so immense. But he could very well be there. As i said they're all extremely close to each other.


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## Etherborn (Apr 22, 2018)

Blackbeard
Shanks
Dragon
Kaido
Big Mom
Akainu
Mihawk
Kizaru
Aokiji
Fujitora


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