# G4 Luffy vs MF Marco



## Finalbeta (May 7, 2015)

Location: MF

Conditions: G4 does never end, Marco has still his DF but regene is restricted

Distance: 50m


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## DoctorLaw (May 7, 2015)

I think Marco wins high difficulty. Not having regen hurts him a bit, but his Haki should be better than Luffys. At the same time however a punch from Garp sat his down, and I think a Kong Gun is more powerful than a shoo fly don't bother me hit from Garp. Marco obviously has a high pain tolerance and that phoenix speed should give him that edge though. Not to mention the fact he hasn't used all of his abilities yet.


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## Bernkastel (May 7, 2015)

Marco wins with high(low) diff.His stats are simply superior.


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## X18999 (May 7, 2015)

With endless G4 and no Regen Marco gets knocked around until he's knocked out.


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## kidgogeta (May 7, 2015)

High diff? No way in hell. Marcos base stats are a tier above Doflamingo, who would beat Luffys G4 if he was fresh. Mid diff at most.


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## Green Monkey (May 7, 2015)

kidgogeta said:


> High diff? No way in hell. Marcos base stats are a tier above Doflamingo, who would beat Luffys G4 if he was fresh. Mid diff at most.



What could DD possibly have done to indicate he would beat a fresh G4? Him not hitting a single attack on Luffy since he went G4, or Luffy knocking him around the entire city in G4? It's fairly obvious G4 Luffy>Any DD while he is in G4. Obviously DD is way stronger than Luffy's other forms, but it's also as clear as day to anyone who's not a DD fanboy that G4 Luffy is clearly superior to DD.

Having a time limit drastically weakens it, but if it's endless like indicated, Luffy wouldn't even get injured by DD once, unless you can somehow indicate how when every single attack he has used failed on Luffy since he went G4.


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## Ghost (May 7, 2015)

kidgogeta said:


> Marcos base stats are a tier above Doflamingo.



Care to prove this?


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## Finalbeta (May 7, 2015)

People always gave Luffy VA level and now that he is finally wooping some important ass still don't complain that he is getting closer and closer to his grandpa strenght


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (May 7, 2015)

Endless G4 helps but it still drains luffy stamina.

Marco still outlasts him.


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## DoctorLaw (May 7, 2015)

Green Monkey said:


> What could DD possibly have done to indicate he would beat a fresh G4? Him not hitting a single attack on Luffy since he went G4, or Luffy knocking him around the entire city in G4? It's fairly obvious G4 Luffy>Any DD while he is in G4. Obviously DD is way stronger than Luffy's other forms, but it's also as clear as day to anyone who's not a DD fanboy that G4 Luffy is clearly superior to DD.
> 
> Having a time limit drastically weakens it, but if it's endless like indicated, Luffy wouldn't even get injured by DD once, unless you can somehow indicate how when every single attack he has used failed on Luffy since he went G4.



Agree with this exactly. It's obvious Doflamingo>>>Luffy, but that G4 puts Luffy at or above Doflamingo's level as far as he's shown. The time limit would mean Doflamingo would eventually slaughter Luffy if they're both fresh, but since that its unlimited, Luffy has proved he can blitz. 

Also, Garp was fast enough to catch Marco completely off guard and hit him from a pretty good distance. It wouldn't be a stretch to say G4 Luffy is knocking around that speed, considering the fact he flew across an island to kick Doflamingo unguarded, the same guy who blocked Law's shambles attack at the last possible second. Marco also managed to get his ass handcuffed. His reaction time isn't a tier above Doflamingo's yet. I'd say Marco is stronger than Doflamingo, but Doflamingo is by no means that far behind. G4 Luffy > Doflamingo (as shown by the fact that G4 has to have a time limit for Doflamingo to come back in this fight as far as we've seen) so he should give Marco just as good a fight as Doflamingo will, if not better.

Doflamingo's reactions to G4 weren't exactly the greatest, and like I said before Marco's reaction time is probably around the same. Marco ain't winning with any less than high difficulty.


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## Captain Altintop (May 7, 2015)

Marco wins high ( low ) difficulty.


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## Imagine (May 7, 2015)

DoctorLaw said:


> Agree with this exactly. It's obvious Doflamingo>>>Luffy, but that G4 puts Luffy at or above Doflamingo's level as far as he's shown. The time limit would mean Doflamingo would eventually slaughter Luffy if they're both fresh, but since that its unlimited, Luffy has proved he can blitz.
> 
> *Also, Garp was fast enough to catch Marco completely off guard and hit him from a pretty good distance. It wouldn't be a stretch to say G4 Luffy is knocking around that speed, considering the fact he flew across an island to kick Doflamingo unguarded, the same guy who blocked Law's shambles attack at the last possible second. Marco also managed to get his ass handcuffed. His reaction time isn't a tier above Doflamingo's yet. I'd say Marco is stronger than Doflamingo, but Doflamingo is by no means that far behind. G4 Luffy > Doflamingo (as shown by the fact that G4 has to have a time limit for Doflamingo to come back in this fight as far as we've seen) so he should give Marco just as good a fight as DoflaWmingo will, if not better.
> 
> Doflamingo's reactions to G4 weren't exactly the greatest, and like I said before Marco's reaction time is probably around the same. Marco ain't winning with any less than high difficulty.*


Whoa, whoa, slow down there. You should NOT be trying make an assumption that Luffy can do something Garp can. 

Marco got cuffed in a chaotic situation. The only thing on his mind at the time was get to WB. He's already intercepted attacks from Akainu and Kizaru just fine. His reactions/movement are superb and you should not be trying to underplay them for Luffy's sake.



ghostcrawler said:


> Care to prove this?


His kicks send admirals flying.


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## DoctorLaw (May 7, 2015)

Imagine said:


> Whoa, whoa, slow down there. You should NOT be trying make an assumption that Luffy can do something Garp can.
> 
> Marco got cuffed in a chaotic situation. The only thing on his mind at the time was get to WB. He's already intercepted attacks from Akainu and Kizaru just fine. His reactions/movement are superb and you should not be trying to underplay them for Luffy's sake.
> 
> ...



Luffy dropkicked Doflamingo from across a city before he had time to react to it, and Doflamingo was looking at him. In other words, he was moving fast as fuck, and sorry but I can't picture Garp being THAT much faster than Luffy is in G4 (travel speed, not reaction speed). And if he can get cuffed in a chaotic situation, he can catch one of those turn mid direction G4 punches too. And if Garps standard punch can sit Marco down, I know a G4 punch is going to at least fuck him up. If G4 Luffy Is blitzing and pummeling Doflamingo, who a lot of people are considering just one level behind Marco, than he should be able to put up a good fight against Marco.

And Marco has yet to do any real damage to an admiral, he hit them before but no lasting damage. Admirals aren't gods, they've been hit and clashed with before by plenty of high tiers.

G4 Luffy is low diffing Doflamingo right now and has answers to everything he throws at him, he's not getting low diffed by Marco unless Marco is eons beyond Doffy


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## Gohara (May 7, 2015)

Luffy wins with high to extremely high difficulty, IMO.  Maybe other than Haki, I think Luffy's likely top notch in most, if not all categories out of characters below Yonkou level.  The only characters who I can see holding back significantly and being more powerful than him are Yonkou level characters.


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## Ghost (May 8, 2015)

Imagine said:


> His kicks send admirals flying.



Oh, okay. Carry on.


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## LyricalMessiah (May 8, 2015)

kidgogeta said:


> Doflamingo, who would beat Luffys G4 if he was fresh. Mid diff at most.



And if Luffy was 'fresh' as well, he'd give Doflamingo the same treatment he's been giving him whilst both of them are injured.

Utterly ridiculous. Both Luffy and Doflamingo are injured to even them out and yet Luffy is treating Doflamingo as if he were a fodder. Doflamingo couldn't even land a single critical hit, much less a 'hit', on Luffy who's been blitzing him right and left, punching him and sending him crashing towards buildings/stone walls at high-speeds all throughout the city. Doflamingo wouldn't be capable of fighting against Luffy even if he were fresh because Gear 4 is simply that powerful. 

Gear 4 Luffy is stronger than any version of Doflamingo. Luffy without gear 4 is inferior to any version of Doflamingo. Simple.

On topic: Marco wins with Mid Difficulty to High difficulty. I am inclined to say it's the latter.


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## Yuki (May 8, 2015)

LyricalMessiah said:


> Utterly ridiculous. Both Luffy and Doflamingo are injured to even them out and yet Luffy is treating Doflamingo as if he were a fodder. Doflamingo couldn't even land a single critical hit, much less a 'hit', on Luffy who's been blitzing him right and left, punching him and sending him crashing towards buildings/stone walls at high-speeds all throughout the city. Doflamingo wouldn't be capable of fighting against Luffy even if he were fresh because Gear 4 is simply that powerful.



Just give it up, idiots will be idiots.

Let them keep thinking that DD can mid diff a going all out Luffy and wait till they drop this manga the second G4 Luffy hurts a yonko.

Best of both worlds.

Idiots will always believe what they want and ignore what the mangaka of the damn manga says.


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## Imagine (May 8, 2015)

DoctorLaw said:


> Luffy dropkicked Doflamingo from across a city before he had time to react to it, and Doflamingo was looking at him. In other words, he was moving fast as fuck, and sorry but I can't picture Garp being THAT much faster than Luffy is in G4 (travel speed, not reaction speed). And if he can get cuffed in a chaotic situation, he can catch one of those turn mid direction G4 punches too. And if Garps standard punch can sit Marco down, I know a G4 punch is going to at least fuck him up. If G4 Luffy Is blitzing and pummeling Doflamingo, who a lot of people are considering just one level behind Marco, than he should be able to put up a good fight against Marco.
> 
> And Marco has yet to do any real damage to an admiral, he hit them before but no lasting damage. Admirals aren't gods, they've been hit and clashed with before by plenty of high tiers.



No punch from fucking Garp is standard 

This is a guy that climbed to the top with nothing but his fists. His physical strength is unrivaled only by the likes of Roger, WB and maybe the C3. Marco has ran through attacks from admirals and yet when Garp punched his he was actually hurt. Oda is clearly trying the tell us that Garp's physical strength is unmatched.

Admirals are gods. They are the top of the food chain, the blood, sweat and tears of the marines. And which high tier are those? Not a single high tier has been capable of moving a top tier like Marco with their physical strength.  Doflamingo didn't want none Aokiji and started sweating bullets when Fuji dropped some meteors. 

Marco > Doflamingo 

Period.



> G4 Luffy is low diffing Doflamingo right now and has answers to everything he throws at him, he's not getting low diffed by Marco unless Marco is eons beyond Doffy


There you go overexaggeratin' again. Dofla is not getting low diffed. The fight would have already been over. Luffy vs Bellamy is low diff. Dofla hasn't got shit on Marco any in category.


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## Amol (May 8, 2015)

So G4 is unlimited and Marco doesn't have regeneration ?
Marco wins with very high diff I think.


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## kidgogeta (May 8, 2015)

LyricalMessiah said:


> Snip.


Whatever man. Doflamingo vs Luffy is debatable, and I don't care enough to argue. What I do care about is why the hell you or anyone would ever think current Luffy could give Marco a hard time. That's a sick joke.


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## Quuon (May 8, 2015)

Marco should still win.

No regen pushes this up to a high-extreme difficulty struggle rather than mid.


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## Ryuksgelus (May 8, 2015)

The G4 hype is astounding. People actually comparing it's power and speed to Garp :/. 


You guys are going to blow a casket when BM or Kaidou shrug off attacks in that form from a fresher Luffy with a stronger base.


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## DoctorLaw (May 8, 2015)

Imagine said:


> No punch from fucking Garp is standard
> 
> This is a guy that climbed to the top with nothing but his fists. His physical strength is unrivaled only by the likes of Roger, WB and maybe the C3. Marco has ran through attacks from admirals and yet when Garp punched his he was actually hurt. Oda is clearly trying the tell us that Garp's physical strength is unmatched.
> 
> ...



I noticed you made no mention of the speed. Garp, like you said, made his living off his physical strength, haki, and reaction. I don't really remember anyone saying he's a speed god. And Garps unnamed punch isn't stronger than Admirals named moves. Kizaru shot Marco with light that he just instantly regenerated from. Garp used blunt force Haki. I think a Kong Gun that Marco doesn't see coming will knock him down as well. 

And Doflamino has landed one hit since G4 started and he's been getting knocked all over the place. This is pretty much the same as G2 Luffy vs the door guy. Doflamingo has been nearly helpless to stop any of Luffys attacks, and Luffy has taken no damage. This is the definition of low diffed. 

And Marco is stronger than Doflamingo which I already conceded, but he isn't that much stronger. Marco has yet to land a crucial hit on a serious admiral. Marco was bloodlusted and did a coop attack with his buddy and they just annoyed Akainu. Marcos attack also did about the same damage as Vistas attack by the way. Lets be honest, a Kong Gun would've actually hurt Akainu.

All of Marcos hits on admirals have been the same as other characters. When the admiral was distracted, or dicking around. Kizaru waited for Marco to kick him and calmly spoke to him. 

By portrayal, I say Marco wins, high dif. But from what we've seen so far, his feats have been replicated by others, and his best one was managing to just slow down Akainu.

 Luffy let Bellamy hit him while he stood stock still with no haki. Then he one shot him. Thats no dif.


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## Imagine (May 8, 2015)

DoctorLaw said:


> I noticed you made no mention of the speed. Garp, like you said, made his living off his physical strength, haki, and reaction. I don't really remember anyone saying he's a speed god. And Garps unnamed punch isn't stronger than Admirals named moves. Kizaru shot Marco with light that he just instantly regenerated from. Garp used blunt force Haki. I think a Kong Gun that Marco doesn't see coming will knock him down as well.


Garp's speed is superb. He caught Marco off guard when Marco was actually focusing. Marco can intercept admirals.  

Garp's punches are his signature attacks. He's only ever used his fists. Whether it was when he was in his prime fighting Chinjao or when he was at MF swinging at Marco. They're the equivalent to Akainu's Dai Funka or Kizaru's laser attacks. He's called Garp the fist. Kizaru shot Marco with one of his signature attacks which Marco healed from. Garp punched Marco and it actually hurt him. He healed from it eventually but it did hurt him which is an indication that Garp's physical strength is not to be played with. 

A Kong Gun might move him, but hurt him? When admiral attacks couldn't? Fuck no.



> And Doflamino has landed one hit since G4 started and he's been getting knocked all over the place. This is pretty much the same as G2 Luffy vs the door guy. Doflamingo has been nearly helpless to stop any of Luffys attacks, and Luffy has taken no damage. This is the definition of low diffed.


Doflamingo is weakened. He has to adjust to Luffy's powerup. The fight would already be over if he was low diff'd. So wrong.



> And Marco is stronger than Doflamingo which I already conceded, but he isn't that much stronger. Marco has yet to land a crucial hit on a serious admiral. Marco was bloodlusted and did a coop attack with his buddy and they just annoyed Akainu. Marcos attack also did about the same damage as Vistas attack by the way. Lets be honest, a Kong Gun would've actually hurt Akainu.


But he is. Marco can fight admirals, Dofla is losing to Supernova. ABC logic isn't that hard to grasp. Akainu is a top of the line fighter. It's not surprising that he can nullify a hit or two with his haki. He wouldn't stomp Marco in a fight or anything. 



> Lets be honest, a Kong Gun would've actually hurt Akainu.


Pls go. Akainu gets up after taking quakes from the fucking WSM.



> All of Marcos hits on admirals have been the same as other characters. When the admiral was distracted, or dicking around. Kizaru waited for Marco to kick him and calmly spoke to him.


Kizaru didn't let Marco attack him, Marco closed the distance. Kizaru didn't expect his attack to be intercepted. Kizaru is Kizaru. He's always calm and constantly speaks with a sarcastic tone. There's never been difference in his speech in all 700+ chapters.



> By portrayal, I say Marco wins, high dif. But from what we've seen so far, his feats have been replicated by others, and his best one was managing to just slow down Akainu.


Wrong. His best feats are sending Kizaru flying and tanking Akainu and Kizaru's attacks. Yeah, other characters can replicate that ie Jozu, Sabo, Teach, any top tier, but not Luffy or anyone on Luffy's level.



> Luffy let Bellamy hit him while he stood stock still with no haki. Then he one shot him. Thats no dif.


 

Then you understand what you're saying is bullshit. Doflamingo will fight back he will challenge Luffy. He's taking hits from him. Low diff would imply that one or two hits would end the fight, but that's not the case. 

P L S G O
L
S
G
O


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## DoctorLaw (May 8, 2015)

Now who's downplaying things? Akainu got up but I promise you he wasn't alright. And since you keep bringing up how Doflamingo was weakened, consider this: Whitebeard was on his deathbed and still fucked up Akainu. Fucked up Akainu got up and subsequently shrugged off attacks from bloodlusted Marco with his friend. 

Read OP. Marco can't regenerate. All of that is irrelevant here, if Kizaru blasted Marco like that and he couldn't regen he wouldn't have been able to close the distance, he would've been dead. And Kizaru let Marco close the distance, Kizaru is obviously the fastest in the manga you think he couldn't have reacted to an enemy he can see coming at him? 

When Marco launched Kizaru he got up casually, and when he kicked Aokiji he barely injured him. Face it, Marco has done virtually no damage to admirals, only used his regen to stop their attacks. And his regen is off. 

Marco without one of his most important abilities that he has used time and time again isn't going to low dif G4 Luffy who has smashed through Doflamingos defenses again and again. Marcos regen is his biggest defense.

And stop with that "pls go." debate your point, don't just keep telling me Garp is god and unless you can hit as hard as him Marco can't be hurt. Marco has shown no proof that his defense is that much greater than Doflamingo without his regen.


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## Yuki (May 8, 2015)

Quuon said:


> Marco should still win.
> 
> No regen pushes this up to a high-extreme difficulty struggle rather than mid.



This is stupid.

Regen won't make a difference in a battle if Marco can mid diff Luffy. All it would do here is make sure Marco exists the battle with no damage. 

Regen only helps vs people around his own level or above. Vs someone weaker he won't need his regen because he is stronger. Regen does not make him any stronger, it just helps him survive attacks.

If G4 Luffy can push Marco without regen to extreme dif, then with Regen he is not doing anything outside of extreme either. 

People both underrate and overrate Marco's regen.

People underrate it because they think if someone is even 10% stronger than Marco that they can defeat Marco with extreme dif despite him having regen.

Then vs someone 10% weaker people say even without his regen he wins extreme diff. 

Ffs this is getting stupid as fk...

Marco's stats are ok, they make him able to put up a fight vs an admiral. But without his regen he gets slaughtered.  

Vs someone with around his own stats, Marco cannot lose because of his regen. It will always end high dif in favor of Marco.

Marco is my second fav character and i do believe i understand what his regen does better than most.


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## Finalbeta (May 8, 2015)

Anyway I can see Marco doing the same damage that Luffy is doing to Mingo and no more.I have Luffy on pair with marco for what concern firepower (haki and phisical combined) Doffy is getting destroyed and Marco could not just fuck him like trash even if he is weakened

Marco without regeneration is on pair with Luffy 's defence imo because Luffy 's elastic body was not even stracthed by  the attacks of doffy and Marco even without this advantage has better haki defence


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## barreltheif (May 8, 2015)

Marco's regen is crucial to his fighting style. With it, he can focus on offense without having to worry about defense. It's not just some nice little extra that comes with his DF.

Luffy has better strength and agility feats than Marco. He has way better range. He is more versatile. He has better defense and durability. He may be worse at haki - though Marco doesn't really have amazing haki feats - but this is outweighed by his other advantages. There's no doubt that Luffy wins.


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## Imagine (May 8, 2015)

DoctorLaw said:


> Now who's downplaying things? Akainu got up but I promise you he wasn't alright. And since you keep bringing up how Doflamingo was weakened, consider this: Whitebeard was on his deathbed and still fucked up Akainu. Fucked up Akainu got up and subsequently shrugged off attacks from bloodlusted Marco with his friend.




Because Akainu is one of the strongest fucking fighters in the series and WB is the number 2 arguably the number 1 strongest fighter in the series. There is *NOTHING* that you can assume Doflamingo or Luffy (at this point in time) can do that WB and Akainu can do. This reverse powerscale doesn't work.

Marco is not the strongest in the series but he is a top tier regardless. He and Vista went up against literally one of the top five strongest characters in the series. It's no surprise that Akainu was able to out manuver them.



> Read OP. Marco can't regenerate. All of that is irrelevant here, if Kizaru blasted Marco like that and he couldn't regen he wouldn't have been able to close the distance, he would've been dead. And Kizaru let Marco close the distance, Kizaru is obviously the fastest in the manga you think he couldn't have reacted to an enemy he can see coming at him?


Marco took a laser from Kiz while cuffed and eventually got up.



> When Marco launched Kizaru he got up casually, and when he kicked Aokiji he barely injured him. Face it, Marco has done virtually no damage to admirals, only used his regen to stop their attacks. And his regen is off.


Because he's an admiral. It'd be disappointing if a single kick would destroy him. Nevertheless, it requires substantial physical strength to do that. That kick would ruin Doflamingo and Luffy's day.



> Marco without one of his most important abilities that he has used time and time again isn't going to low dif G4 Luffy who has smashed through Doflamingos defenses again and again. Marcos regen is his biggest defense.


Oh but he has one of his most important abilities. His physical strength. And I never said anything about Marco low diffing Luffy, but Luffy isn't beating Marco. Regen or no.



> And stop with that "pls go." debate your point, don't just keep telling me Garp is god and unless you can hit as hard as him Marco can't be hurt. Marco has shown no proof that his defense is that much greater than Doflamingo without his regen.


Garp *hurt* Marco while he was regenerating. Kizaru tried to and he failed. Garp did not. What does that tell you?

Pls go.


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## Imagine (May 8, 2015)

Garp did something so Luffy should be able to as well guys.


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## Yuki (May 8, 2015)

Oh yea for the fight it's self. I shall make my own scenario's. 

I do believe that Marco has the speed and strength needed to take on Luffy in G4. He has the speed to hit Luffy when Luffy tries to hit him, the power to send Luffy flying and the haki needed to damage Luffy.

But at the same time, Luffy can do the same.

S1: Extreme diff either way Imo. 

If G4 was limited like it in in the manga, Marco would win far easier as he would match G4 while Luffy has it and then just slaughter Luffy once he was out. 

S2: So Mid-high diff here for Marco.

At the same time if he had his regen and Luffy did have this infinite G4. Marco would just match G4 Luffy until Luffy goes down and then he would finish him off. In other words, Marco would find it just as hard to take Luffy down, but he would have no chance at losing. 

S3: High diff here for Marco.

If this was just Marco vs Luffy it would not change a thing from my S2.

S4: Mid-high diff here for Marco.


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## Finalbeta (May 8, 2015)

Juvia. said:


> Oh yea for the fight it's self. I shall make my own scenario's.
> 
> I do believe that Marco has the speed and strength needed to take on Luffy in G4. He has the speed to hit Luffy when Luffy tries to hit him, the power to send Luffy flying and the haki needed to damage Luffy.
> 
> But at the same time, Luffy can do the same.



Yeah I agree

Luffy in G4 has surprised all of us. He is making such a good job against Mingo that he could do prob. the same in a stronger version of him.

Marco isn't a tier over Mingo, the difference between Marco and Mingo is the same between Zoro and Sanji IMO, which means winning with high difficult

A normal Marco wins high diff against Luffy IMO


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## Yuki (May 8, 2015)

Finalbeta said:


> A normal Marco wins high diff against Luffy IMO



If it's Luffy without unlimited G4 he is not taking Marco to high. 

Marco could fight for days vs someone his own level in stats which Luffy in G4 might very well be. G4 Luffy lasts max 30 minutes before he runs out and is exhausted. 

When G4 Luffy is no more and is just base Luffy again, Marco would have just gotten warmed up. He then goes on the murder an exhausted Luffy in seconds.


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## IchijiNijiSanji (May 8, 2015)

I just want to say garp has shown some speed feats. He came out up in the air from the platform to knock marco out of the air (granted marco was flying towards him). He also soru past sanji and zoro to give luffy a love tap before they even realized it.
being  purely physical fighter and from the marines who have rokushiki he should have decent speed stats.


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## Finalbeta (May 8, 2015)

Mid to high sounds right,depending how damage will luffy give marco even if he has regene , before g4 runs out


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## Yuki (May 8, 2015)

Finalbeta said:


> Mid to high sounds right,depending how damage will luffy give marco even if he has regene , before g4 runs out



Like i said, Marco could likely fight G4 Luffy for days. 30 minutes would not be enough to do lasting damage to Marco, if he has regen even more so.


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## Fenrir (May 8, 2015)

All of you are disgusting

/argument #rekt gg salty sallys


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## Imagine (May 8, 2015)

Get out


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## LyricalMessiah (May 8, 2015)

kidgogeta said:


> Whatever man. Doflamingo vs Luffy is debatable, and I don't care enough to argue. What I do care about is why the hell you or anyone would ever think current Luffy could give Marco a hard time. That's a sick joke.



Except, it's not debatable in the slightest. Luffy in Gear 4 is _vastly_ superior to Doflamingo regardless of which version of Doflamingo we're referring to. Have you not seen how he treated him like a fodder even though both of them were injured to begin with?! As far as Marco is concerned? Luffy isn't going down without giving him a good fight and part of my reasoning for why I believe Luffy can push Marco to High diff is due to the regeneration factor that seems to be non-existent for Marco in his fight with Luffy because he'd be unable to keep on healing after getting hit by Luffy's attacks. With regeneration, I'd lean more towards Marco with Mid diff.


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## Lawliet (May 8, 2015)

Marco dies. He and Doffy should be more or less on the same level. If Doffy is getting dominated by Gear 4, and Gear 4 is endless in this scenario. God help Marco lol


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## Yuki (May 8, 2015)

oOLawlietOo said:


> Marco dies. He and Doffy should be more or less on the same level. If Doffy is getting dominated by Gear 4, and Gear 4 is endless in this scenario. God help Marco lol



So Luffy can get to and kick Kizaru down now? O_O

Knocking Kizaru down > Knocking DD around.


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## Ryuksgelus (May 8, 2015)

Marco took a punch from Garp. Garp punches are stronger than Prime DCJ's headbutts. 

Flathead DCJ headbutts were only narrowly beat by an EG Thor. EG>Kong&Cavalry punch. Garp is literally multiple levels above what G4 can do but you guys are comparing G4 to him :/.

I guess there is a misunderstanding that G4 hits harder than G3.


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## IchijiNijiSanji (May 8, 2015)

Juvia. said:


> So Luffy can get to and kick Kizaru down now? O_O
> 
> Knocking Kizaru down > Knocking DD around.



Scratchman Apoo teh GOAT


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## RF (May 9, 2015)

Did people just suddenly forget how Zoro was dominated by Fujitora? Or the latters' showings against Doflamingo and Law?

People in here _love_ to overblow things. Luffy is not ready for admiral tier fighters yet. At best he can hold them off a bit without getting owned, but that's about as far as it goes.

Marco mid diff.


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## Finalbeta (May 9, 2015)

Zoro is a scum compared to G4 Luffy and still was able to push Fujitora a bit behind, Luffy is definitely hurting both Marco and Fuji quite a lot if he manages to hit them, but he should have the right speed


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## Yuki (May 9, 2015)

Meth said:


> Did people just suddenly forget how Zoro was dominated by Fujitora? Or the latters' showings against Doflamingo and Law?
> 
> People in here _love_ to overblow things. Luffy is not ready for admiral tier fighters yet. At best he can hold them off a bit without getting owned, but that's about as far as it goes.
> 
> Marco mid diff.



Did people forget how damaged Law was before fighting DD and yet he did just fine fighting vs DD alone while Luffy was being stalled. In fact he damn nearly all most killed him.

DD is only around as damaged as Law was while fighting Luffy but unlike how DD was at nearly 100% while fighting Law Luffy is also weakened and yet DD can do nothing at all vs G4 Luffy. 

There is a much bigger difference between G4 Luffy and DD than there was Law and DD and yet people still like to point out that while both at 100% DD would still destroy Law. 

Honestly the amount of BS you have to think to believe both of these things is moronic at best.


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## Finalbeta (May 9, 2015)

I have Doffy around 50-60% and Luffy around 85-90%, but I also have Luffy 2 times stronger than Mingo as now as they are fighting, which means Luffy is still of a good % stronger than him at 100%

Anyway there is no way to tell, one thing for sure, Luffy in G4 should own Doffy in any state, the only problem is that it lasts 30 minutes, and a fresh doffy can resist that


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## Yuki (May 9, 2015)

Finalbeta said:


> I have Doffy around 50-60% and Luffy around 85-90%, but I also have Luffy 2 times stronger than Mingo as now as they are fighting, which means Luffy is still of a good % stronger than him at 100%
> 
> Anyway there is no way to tell, one thing for sure, Luffy in G4 should own Doffy in any state, the only problem is that it lasts 30 minutes, and a fresh doffy can resist that



Yea, apart from the point that DD could actually Tell Luffy was damaged while Luffy could only guess that DD was.

Pretty much meaning there is more evidence right there that Luffy is more damaged than DD is.

You cannot tell if someone is damaged if they are only 10% damaged. .


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## Finalbeta (May 9, 2015)

It's clear that Doffy is way more damaged than Luffy, otherwise Luffy would be admiral level:

Fujitora > Marco > DD

100% DD if he is less damaged than Luffy would mean that is equal to not 50% Luffy but somewhat 30-40%, which is admiral tier

Current G4 showing = 2 times the strenght of Doffy, minimum.


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## Yuki (May 9, 2015)

Finalbeta said:


> It's clear that Doffy is way more damaged than Luffy, otherwise Luffy would be admiral level:
> 
> Fujitora > Marco > DD
> 
> ...



And Yet Luffy could not actually tell if DD was damaged or not and could only guess while DD clearly stated he could tell that Luffy was. 

Sure sure you can all belieave what yuou want.

As i said when we see G4 Luffy go and fight a yonko in a couple arcs just drop the manga butthurt and let me continue enjoying the manga.


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## Finalbeta (May 9, 2015)

IMO Luffy's strenght would increase a lot from now at the moment he will fight Kaido 

It has always been like that, and personally I can see Kaido Akainu level at max, and I'm generous

Akainu should at least try to end Doffy, which means he is about 300-400 % Doffy

Luffy IMO is just about 150% Doffy for now


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## Freechoice (May 9, 2015)

doctlaw is the worst


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## Nox (May 9, 2015)

Marco still has his speed, physical strength and haki which > G4 Luffy. He still wins.


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## Extravlad (May 9, 2015)

> Care to prove this?


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## Finalbeta (May 9, 2015)

Marco got momentum to send Borsalino flying, DD haven't, anyway we all know Marco is the strongest...


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