# Who can defeat Ichibei Hyosube (Bleach)?



## Catalyst75 (Dec 15, 2014)

For the life of me, I can't think of anyone who could balance out against this guy.  I tried to think of characters that I knew of who could fight him, but I couldn't think of a balanced fight.

His paintbrush can cut your powers in half, he only has to blot you out with ink to take away your name and all of your abilities when using Ichimonji, and that is combined with those Urahadou techniques he has (what else can I call those giant hand and foot constructs).  

He can send you flying 4000 kilometres with one strike of the Senri Tsuutenshou; I presume that foot as the same properties, and he can crush his enemies between two palms.

So who can defeat Ichibei Hyosube without being vastly more powerful than him?


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## Tacocat (Dec 15, 2014)

The Pink Mighty Morphin' Ranger crushes his dreams.


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## Blαck (Dec 15, 2014)

Catalyst75 said:


> So who can defeat Ichibei Hyosube without being vastly more powerful than him?


Well of course the OP top tiers, speed equal Ray Kazaragi from Area D as well as Mika with her space eaters and Asura from Greek tragedy.


Tacocat said:


> The Pink Mighty Morphin' Ranger crushes his dreams.





Wait...really?


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## Iwandesu (Dec 15, 2014)

wasn't pink relativistic+ and god knows how strong are fooder ranger level?


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## Tacocat (Dec 16, 2014)

> Wait...really?











Kim is a low-tier Ranger, though. She's below Rita, at least, so she's not breaching planet-level like a bajillion of her peers.


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## Tranquil Fury (Dec 16, 2014)




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## Crimson Dragoon (Dec 16, 2014)

TF ended the thread


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## Regicide (Dec 16, 2014)

Catalyst, we don't even know the mechanics of his powers. Ichibei may as well be a walking no-limits fallacy.

And actually is, in fact.

But assuming you're excluding characters who would stomp Bleach top tiers and/or the verse as a whole, anyone fast enough to blitz and has enough hax or raw power to murk him.


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## Sablés (Dec 16, 2014)

Is it NLF?

Ichibei only affects names, power is lost as a consequence. Don't really see  conventional durability playing a factor here.


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## Blαck (Dec 16, 2014)

Tacocat said:


> Kim is a low-tier Ranger, though. She's below Rita, at least, so she's not breaching planet-level like a bajillion of her peers.



Well damn


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## Catalyst75 (Dec 16, 2014)

Regicide said:


> Catalyst, we don't even know the mechanics of his powers. Ichibei may as well be a walking no-limits fallacy.
> 
> And actually is, in fact.
> 
> But assuming you're excluding characters who would stomp Bleach top tiers and/or the verse as a whole, anyone fast enough to blitz and has enough hax or raw power to murk him.



About that, the last time I checked he was pushing 4000 km/s in the speed department, if the feat regarding the Senri Tsuutenshou has been accepted.  If it was, then you would need to find super-fast characters who could blitz him.


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## Darth Niggatron (Dec 16, 2014)

Takeru has a magic negating field, so he takes this easily.


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## Aphelion (Dec 16, 2014)

Regicide said:


> Catalyst, we don't even know the mechanics of his powers. Ichibei may as well be a walking no-limits fallacy.
> 
> And actually is, in fact.



I somehow doubt that an ability that functions by attacking an abstract concept like a name would be at all affected by physical durability.


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## Red Angel (Dec 16, 2014)

Probably CB YYH chars? I don't know


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## Darth Niggatron (Dec 16, 2014)

Aphelion said:


> I somehow doubt that an ability that functions by attacking an abstract concept like a name would be at all affected by physical durability.



This. You'd need specific Nomenclatural resistance. Probably someone from Inheritance Cycle or Kingkilker Chronicles.


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## Tranquil Fury (Dec 16, 2014)

Liquid said:


> Is it NLF?
> 
> Ichibei only affects names, power is lost as a consequence. Bach couldn't even call his sword's name. Don't really see  conventional durability playing a factor here.



It is the defination of NLF because the exact extent on how much he can or cannot name, remove or seal is unknown. Soifon's instant death ability could be negated by a huge enough gap, Gremmy who tried to wish to be Kenpachi could'nt handle it, Juha saying that only he could contain the power of Yamamoto's zanpakto due to having necessary power, Aizen's speeches about how he could go beyond powers because he transcended things to higher levels(athough to be fair Gin still got him before he evolved further) but not other types of attacks beyond physical depending on nature of intangibility. There is basis that enough gap in power can negate things in Bleach, Gremmy was limited to his imagination and even wishing to be Kenpachi level killed him. I'm willing to wager he can't imagine himself to be Ichibei or have his powers either.

Even if we go with it as being otherwise as a complete durability negating like Pepe's love that can influence a vastly more powerful Byakuya's zanpakto(even then it's debateable if this could work on an even vastly larger gap in power or not) there is still the matter of limit needed.

We do something like Ichibei vs Vegetto and chances he may or may not be able to cut his power in half or rename his attacks comes into play(for sake of argument let's assume he lets Ichibei hit him). We can go for higher extremes like Chousin from Tenchi Muyo or Cosmic Armor Superman. Because the lack of limit and vagueness on the abilities could allow such wank in threads. 

His power most likely is'nt going to work Soul King who no doubt is going to be beyond him. We do not know the mechanics of his power or any limits they may have which make them a NLF, this is'nt as simple as generic intangibility(think Kitty Pryde type phasing through walls etc) which we know can negate physical attacks(generally unless those attacks work on intangibles themselves). Here we have very vague idea on the mechanics of how he removes the name or renames it.

There are abilities far more H4X that are subject to scrutiny, why is this an exception?Either work out the details on it or don't use it due to the shitstorms this will create due to it's vaguely defined ability that does something very H4X and has no limits currently established.]

Could he do these to beings considered a "higher dimension" or whatever than him for example?It's a concept introduced in Fake Karakura Town arc and unless Kubo is going to contradict that(possible) it seems the reason Ichibei does'nt just become Soul King is probably because the latter is on a higher level he cannot reach.

Offcourse it's all speculation till more is revealed on the ability for a fight still happening.


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## Tacocat (Dec 16, 2014)

Why are you  guys addressing durability in response to Regi saying it's NLF? Be it NLF or not, "no limits" does not only address durability, which constitutes...one limit. Why do you assume a person losing their name will take all of their ability to do anything and everything? Is it relative? Does this mechanic work on people not from Bleach? (A plethora of characters have forgotten or "lost" their names and that did jack shit to rob them of their powers, after all.) Does it compromise their reiatsu, which constitutes a character's ability to do _everything_ in Bleach, but certainly not elsewhere? Will it work on anyone inherently stronger than Ichibei when hax has failed before just due to a difference in power level, IIRC? Didn't Whack himself resist that shit? I dunno, I didn't really pay attention to the chapter, and fuck if Kubo even knows what he's writing half the time.


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## Blαck (Dec 16, 2014)

Tacocat said:


> Why are you  guys addressing durability in response to Regi saying it's NLF? Be it NLF or not, "no limits" does not only address durability, which constitutes...one limit. Why do you assume a person losing their name will take all of their ability to do anything and everything? Is it relative? Does this mechanic work on people not from Bleach? (A plethora of characters have forgotten or "lost" their names and that did jack shit to rob them of their powers, after all.) Does it compromise their reiatsu, which constitutes a character's ability to do _everything_ in Bleach? Will it work on anyone inherently stronger than Ichibei when hax has failed before just due to a difference in power level, IIRC? Didn't Whack himself resist that shit? I dunno, I didn't really pay attention to the chapter, and* fuck if Kubo even knows what he's writing half the time.*



This, though maybe this week he'll explain the shit.


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## Tranquil Fury (Dec 16, 2014)

We're not discussing durability, we're discussing power/power level and other things. Taking an extremely high end example would he in theory be able to seal away say Lord of Nightmares or Chousin?The mechanics on his attack are vague. As mentioned the issue of names in general is a murky one, would it work if something had multiple names or names he did'nt understand?

Could he rewrite names/languages like those from Lovecraft which would be alien to Bleach?

Waiting till after Kubo finishes the fight is better as said.

EDIT Unless that was'nt in reference to my post. Ichibei's ability to our current and limited knowledge does not work on durability concept.


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## Tacocat (Dec 16, 2014)

Tranquil Fury said:


> We're not discussing durability



Yeah, I posted that before seeing your comment. I was talking to Tables and Aphelion, specifically, who responded to Regi's mention of NLF by saying that durability is irrelevant. I meant to say perhaps durability is irrelevant, but as you mentioned there's no reason bypassing durability is the only facet by which a thing can escape being called NLF. That's...what tons of hax do, anyway. It's pretty supplementary to the term.


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## Aphelion (Dec 16, 2014)

Tacocat said:


> Why are you  guys addressing durability in response to Regi saying it's NLF? Be it NLF or not, "no limits" does not only address durability, which constitutes...one limit. Why do you assume a person losing their name will take all of their ability to do anything and everything? Is it relative? Does this mechanic work on people not from Bleach? (A plethora of characters have forgotten or "lost" their names and that did jack shit to rob them of their powers, after all.) Does it compromise their reiatsu, which constitutes a character's ability to do _everything_ in Bleach, but certainly not elsewhere? Will it work on anyone inherently stronger than Ichibei when hax has failed before just due to a difference in power level, IIRC? Didn't Whack himself resist that shit? I dunno, I didn't really pay attention to the chapter, and fuck if Kubo even knows what he's writing half the time.



Ichibei's power completely wipes names out of existence, this includes removing them from the memories from anyone who might have known them.  This probably goes beyond most cases in fiction where someone "loses" their name.

As for why it should work, I would assume for the same reason that we assume Genjutsu should work against people from verses where chakra isn't a thing, or why soul based attacks work against characters in verses where souls may not be a thing or operate under different mechanics.

Juha didn't so much resist it as he was able to reverse the effects after he lost his powers.


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## trance (Dec 16, 2014)

Skarbrand said:


> Probably CB YYH chars? I don't know



Is this before or after Spirit Aura Sensui and Demon-Hybrid Yusuke are introduced?


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## Tacocat (Dec 16, 2014)

Aphelion said:


> Ichibei's power completely wipes names out of existence, this includes removing them from the memories from anyone who might have known them.  This probably goes beyond most cases in fiction where someone "loses" their name.


That happens, too, albeit it's less common. Kubo's not the first to pull that kind of thing.

And Tables said name-taking is the specific function of Ichibei's technique, and that the loss of power is a consequence. This shouldn't mean anything for characters whose powers are not dependent on others or they themselves knowing their names.



> As for why it should work, I would assume for the same reason that we assume Genjutsu should work against people from verses where chakra isn't a thing, or why soul based attacks work against characters in verses where souls may not be a thing or operate under different mechanics.


It's not, because genjutsu directly affects chakra, which we equalize across fiction. Why would we equalize the necessity for a name to function? Pandering to Kubo's 8th Grade Syndrome doesn't rank very high on my list of things to be standardized in the OBD 



> Juha didn't so much resist it as he was able to reverse the effects after he lost his powers.


And so we arrive at the age-old Bleach impasse: How?


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## Nighty the Mighty (Dec 16, 2014)

that's dumb as fuck taco

there's never been indication in bleach before that names have anything to do with power

his ability takes your name and in doing so your power, the argument that other people don't lose power when they lose their names (unless you have a really specific example in which case fair enough) is like arguing that Itachi can't genjutsu luffy because of a lack of chakra.

Juha "resisted" it because Ichibei took the wrong name apparently. He took Juha, but neglected to take "A the all-mighty"


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## Sablés (Dec 16, 2014)

Tranquil Fury said:


> It is the defination of NLF because the exact extent on how much he can or cannot name, remove or seal is unknown. Soifon's instant death ability could be negated by a huge enough gap, Gremmy who tried to wish to be Kenpachi could'nt handle it, Juha saying that only he could contain the power of Yamamoto's zanpakto due to having necessary power, Aizen's speeches about how he could go beyond powers because he transcended things to higher levels(athough to be fair Gin still got him before he evolved further) but not other types of attacks beyond physical depending on nature of intangibility. There is basis that enough gap in power can negate things in Bleach, Gremmy was limited to his imagination and even wishing to be Kenpachi level killed him. I'm willing to wager he can't imagine himself to be Ichibei or have his powers either.
> 
> Even if we go with it as being otherwise as a complete durability negating like Pepe's love that can influence a vastly more powerful Byakuya's zanpakto(even then it's debateable if this could work on an even vastly larger gap in power or not) there is still the matter of limit needed.
> 
> ...



Indeed, the power nullifying seemingly invincible or otherwise hax abilities in Bleach is a standing rule  however there are multiple exceptions to the rule for whatever reason.

One being the Pepe example you've listed. Now as you say, it comes down to a case whether the reason could be  " the gap in power is not great enough to debilitate the ability", I think there exists enough evidence where  we can  consider Senbonzakura has laughably more power than him to the extent where it shouldn't be affected at all by Love or at the very least, there should be some major indications of resistance present. Certainly more than Kenpachi compared to Ichigo back in Soul Society (where the concept was first introduced IIRC) . As we're talking about an arbitrary concept here, it shouldn't depend so much on the individuals as the gap that exists between them.

There are other examples where clashes of reiatsu simply do not work like Aizen's Kyouka Suigetsu or Shinji's Sakanade that can affect characters far superior to them. Now the only question, is whether Ichibei falls under this category and honestly, he probably does considering his blade doesn't even  and manipulates the environment. What's more damning is that Bach takes away all of Ichibei's power thus an enormous gap should be present where Ichimonji at the time could not steal it back. As far as a rule of power is concerned, I don't think the concept applies to Ichibei.


Now as for the mechanism, I really can't tell you. Only what I presume you already know. Though I was under the impression that unless hax (assuming everything has been cleared like say, waiting for the fight to be over or detailed bla bla etc) demonstrates a weakness, its natural to assume there isn't one or at the very least, flow with Occam's Razor. I mean unless you can ascribe NLF to cutting names. And I really doubt Kubo is the first one to come up with this idea, there should be something in fiction to compare it to 


Lastly, as far as  Names are concerned. Those are very specifically stated to fuck with power in Bleach so whether this can be equalized to other verses is beyond me. Someone else argue that bullshit.


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## Nighty the Mighty (Dec 16, 2014)

@that last point

since when?

link?


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## Sablés (Dec 16, 2014)

Same reason why shinigami can't use Zanpakuto  or certain kido without knowing its name first. Was kind of a big deal in SS.

Now this doesn't necessarily apply to Ichibei because the shit he's pulled is completely different. Bach lost half of his power/physical strength/voice because Ichibei cut the name of his arm in half. This rule only applies to certain techniques.


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## Nighty the Mighty (Dec 16, 2014)

that doesn't have anything to do with inherent power 

Zanpakuto names have to do with access to the power


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## Sablés (Dec 16, 2014)

Nightbringer said:


> that doesn't have anything to do with inherent power
> 
> Zanpakuto names have to do with access to the power



Oh, In that case. No


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## Nighty the Mighty (Dec 16, 2014)

though you could argue that he's not taking their power so much as sealing it then

but shinigami are the only "Race" that's ever applied to and bach is a quincy

this ability makes no sense

welcome to bleach


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## Sablés (Dec 16, 2014)

Nightbringer said:


> this ability makes no sense


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## Nighty the Mighty (Dec 16, 2014)




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## Tacocat (Dec 16, 2014)

Nightbringer said:


> that's dumb as fuck taco
> 
> there's never been indication in bleach before that names have anything to do with power
> 
> his ability takes your name and in doing so your power, the argument that other people don't lose power when they lose their names (unless you have a really specific example in which case fair enough) is like arguing that Itachi can't genjutsu luffy because of a lack of chakra.


If the loss of power is resultant of the loss of a name, then that _is_ our indication that names are linked to power in Bleach. You for real, Dartg?

Again, why the fuck would that hold true for other fictions?



> Juha "resisted" it because Ichibei took the wrong name apparently. He took Juha, but neglected to take "A the all-mighty"


So he must take every name, alias, epithet, etc. associated with a character to actually rob him of his power? Good luck with that, especially when knowledge is conditional in the OBD


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## Blαck (Dec 16, 2014)

Nightbringer said:


> Juha "resisted" it because Ichibei took the wrong name apparently. He took Juha, but neglected to take "A the all-mighty"



Talk about a technicality 

Kubo pls tell me this isn't true.


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## Nighty the Mighty (Dec 16, 2014)

Tacocat said:


> If the loss of power is resultant of the loss of a name, then that _is_ our indication that names are linked to power in Bleach. You for real, Dartg?
> 
> Again, why the fuck would that hold true for other fictions?
> 
> ...



it's not a result it's a side-effect

all he has to take is the relevant name

If he takes Monkey D. Luffy it doesn't matter that Luffy is also known as Strawhat Luffy, etc.


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## Yagami1211 (Dec 16, 2014)

Someone who does not let him talk ?


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## Tacocat (Dec 16, 2014)

Nightbringer said:


> it's not a result it's a side-effect


All the same?



> all he has to take is the relevant name
> 
> If he takes Monkey D. Luffy it doesn't matter that Luffy is also known as Strawhat Luffy, etc.


And who decides which name is most relevant? Why does he know Monkey D. Luffy is Luffy's name in the first place? I mean, I'm sure Luffy would tell him if he asked, but that's beside the point  I thought knowledge had to be specified.


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## ZenithXAbyss (Dec 16, 2014)

> And who decides which name is most relevant? Why does he know Monkey D. Luffy is Luffy's name in the first place? I mean, I'm sure Luffy would tell him if he asked, but that's beside the point  I thought knowledge had to be specified.


Part of basic intel.


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## Regicide (Dec 16, 2014)

Not really following Taco's argument that names have to do with power because losing the name results in a loss of power. Not that it couldn't be correct, just don't agree with the way you're coming to that conclusion.

Will say that notYhwach said back in Soul Society arc that knowing the name of a technique increases its power though, if I remember correctly.

As for the NLF part with people bringing up durability in response? That's valid, but I was referring to the amount of power that Ichibei could cut/remove via his ability.


Tacocat said:


> So he must take every name, alias, epithet, etc. associated with a character to actually rob him of his power? Good luck with that, especially when knowledge is conditional in the OBD


Don't think that's the case. 

Pretty sure what Dartg was getting at was that Yhwach has another "name" that empowers him or whatever the fuck.

Meh, just wait for next chapter or something. It'll probably get explained then.


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## Tacocat (Dec 16, 2014)

Regicide said:


> Not really following Taco's argument that names have to do with power because losing the name results in a loss of power. Not that it couldn't be correct, just don't agree with the way you're coming to that conclusion.


If Ichibei's power does not expressly and directly affect both in tandem, and power is lost _because_ Ichibei removes a given name, then a relationship between power and names is inherent. Obviously.

Can you explain to me how something can affect something else if there is no relationship between the two whatsoever?



> Pretty sure what Dartg was getting at was that Yhwach has another "name" that empowers him or whatever the fuck.


You _just said_ you disagree with the notion that there's some correlation between names and power in Bleachverse


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## ZenithXAbyss (Dec 16, 2014)

I don't think it's because ichibei removed the wrong name.
but the power the almighty bring.
The other guy even commented on how ywach can see the future or something and that's the reason why he is undefeatable or some shit.



> If Ichibei's power does not expressly and directly affect both in tandem, and power is lost because Ichibei removes a given name, then a relationship between power and names is inherent. Obviously.


Honestly, that's just stupid.
How come naming someone an ant become as strong as an ant?
It honestly sounds like a branding type of hax or some shit.


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## Tacocat (Dec 16, 2014)

ZenithXAbyss said:


> Honestly, that's just stupid.
> How come naming someone an ant become as strong as an ant?
> It honestly sounds like a branding type of hax or some shit.



Kubo's just misunderstood


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## ZenithXAbyss (Dec 16, 2014)

Suppose ichigo's mom named ichigo "worm", is he going to be at a worms level?


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## Iwandesu (Dec 16, 2014)

BS
ichigo is strawberry level


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## Regicide (Dec 16, 2014)

Tacocat said:


> Can you explain to me how something can affect something else if there is no relationship between the two whatsoever?


I dunno, isn't that like saying..

Actually fuck it, I'm not in the state of mind where I'd be capable of arguing this. Dartg and Maples can tackle this if they want. 


Tacocat said:


> You _just said_ you disagree with the notion that there's some correlation between names and power in Bleachverse


Was more clarifying what I think Dartg was trying to say.

Though I wouldn't outright say it's wrong to suggest that there's a correlation, just not in this specific manner.

I dunno, I just woke up. Quite possibly not as lucid as I could be at the moment.


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## Fujita (Dec 16, 2014)

Tacocat said:


> If the loss of power is resultant of the loss of a name, then that _is_ our indication that names are linked to power in Bleach. You for real, Dartg?
> 
> Again, why the fuck would that hold true for other fictions?



General assumption with these kinds of things is that, barring compelling evidence otherwise, you treat things like this as an active part of the ability rather than some passive trait of a given fictional universe. The ability removes names in such a way that power is affected, rather than the ability removing the name, which in turn only weakens the person if there's some pre-existing link between the name and power in the given verse. This is a lot like arguing that Haki won't work on people who turn into elements from other verses because while we know that there is some correlation between willpower and solidifying these guys in One Piece, there's no inherent reason that that should hold true in other universes. But we shouldn't frame the problem as the result of some fact about the One Pieceverse, but a property of haki that we know should apply elsewhere.

Unless we have independent evidence of names providing power in Bleach, in which case it's relatively safe to assume that it wouldn't work elsewhere (sort of like saying that genjutsu wouldn't work on robots or whatever). And... uh... I'm not going to argue that  


Tacocat said:


> Pandering to Kubo's 8th Grade Syndrome doesn't rank very high on my list of things to be standardized in the OBD


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## Aphelion (Dec 16, 2014)

Tacocat said:


> That happens, too, albeit it's less common. Kubo's not the first to pull that kind of thing.


Well, that's why I said "most".



> And Tables said name-taking is the specific function of Ichibei's technique, and that the loss of power is a consequence. This shouldn't mean anything for characters whose powers are not dependent on others or they themselves knowing their names.


A characters innate power isn't dependent on them knowing names.  It's just that in many cases knowledge of weapon names is required in order to utilize them properly. 



> It's not, because genjutsu directly affects chakra, which we equalize across fiction. Why would we equalize the necessity for a name to function? Pandering to Kubo's 8th Grade Syndrome doesn't rank very high on my list of things to be standardized in the OBD


Yes, and chakra in Naruto exists in a chakra pathway system that is unique to the anatomy of Naruto characters.  Yet a Naruto character can still cast Genjutsu on a Hunter x Hunter character, where a similar type of vital energy exists but functions under completely different mechanics.  So yeah, I'm really not seeing the issue with equalizing Ichibei's name magic.




> And so we arrive at the age-old Bleach impasse: How?


Juha has the ability to restore any lost power with magic, part of his power is literally the ability to not lose his power.  It's the perfect counter hax for an ability like Ichibei's.


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## Catalyst75 (Dec 16, 2014)

Nightbringer said:


> that doesn't have anything to do with inherent power
> 
> Zanpakuto names have to do with access to the power



Ichibei's power works on the physical and conceptual level - on the notion that "Names" have "Power".  Thus, anything his brush "cuts" or "blots" has its "Power" cut in half or removed entirely because the same was done to its "Name".  

When Ichibei simply struck Yhwach's "Arms", it was only their power that was cut in half, and his Cross and Spirit Weapon lost their name and power when blotted, but the "Power" of Yhwach in its entirety was affected when his own "Name" was cut in half or blotted out by Ichibei.

In other words, cutting a person's "Name" in half or taking away their "Name" completely affects their "Body" as a whole because their "Name" pertains to their physical selves.

It is the basis behind how Shirafude Ichimonji works - because their "Name" and all their "Power" was removed in its entirety, he is able to "Re-Name" the target, and in doing so give them the "Power" of the entity they were "Re-Named" into. 

As for the Zanpakuto, knowing its "Name" has everything to do with its "Power".  Just look at Renji's Bankai when he only had part of its name (Hihio Zabimaru) compared to him knowing its full name (Soo Zabimaru).  A better example would be Yumichika's Zanpakuto.  It's true "Name" is Ruri'iro Kujaku, but he calls it Fuji Kujaku to force it into a "partial release" to hide its true abilities.

Through Ichibei's ability, "Power" is connected to the "Name", and having that "Name" cut in half or taken away entirely causes one to lose "Power".


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## Iwandesu (Dec 16, 2014)

i might be misunderstanding something but how cutting ones power in half will help ichibei against people who hit leagues above him ?
i mean even if he did cut let's say nardo continent level+ dc and mhs+ speed in half it would still remanins continent level+ and mhs+.
how much does ichibei attack even affects ?


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## Ulti (Dec 16, 2014)

Triple H, Kevin Nash, Hulk Hogan or anyone with a degree of creative control could win


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## Toaa (Dec 16, 2014)

anyone  around 5 digit mach or 6 to be ultra safe someone that can shot from a fair distance 

hax stronger than his 

reality warping or  some kind of shield like dispel bound


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## Catalyst75 (Dec 16, 2014)

yujiro said:


> anyone  around 5 digit mach or 6 to be ultra safe someone that can shot from a fair distance
> 
> hax stronger than his
> 
> reality warping or  some kind of shield like dispel bound



If the feat from the Senri Tsuutenshou were to be taken as fact, Ichibei himself actually would be 5 digit mach speeds.


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## Regicide (Dec 16, 2014)

Not the speed shit again.


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## LazyWaka (Dec 16, 2014)

Catalyst75 said:


> If the feat from the Senri Tsuutenshou were to be taken as fact, Ichibei himself actually would be 5 digit mach speeds.



Oh, did you guys find a time frame for that?


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## Regicide (Dec 16, 2014)

Nope.


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## Iwandesu (Dec 16, 2014)

why not stick with 30 seconds or wathever ?
does the bone becomes too small ?


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## LazyWaka (Dec 16, 2014)

iwandesu said:


> why not stick with 30 seconds or wathever ?
> does the bone becomes too small ?



The minimum time used for assumed timeframe feats is one minute last I checked.


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## B Rabbit (Dec 16, 2014)

Still can't beat Kizaru so.


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## Iwandesu (Dec 16, 2014)

LazyWaka said:


> The minimum time used for assumed timeframe feats is one minute last I checked.


point remains


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## TobiSan (Dec 17, 2014)

Catalyst75 said:


> For the life of me, I can't think of anyone who could balance out against this guy.  I tried to think of characters that I knew of who could fight him, but I couldn't think of a balanced fight.
> 
> His paintbrush can cut your powers in half, he only has to blot you out with ink to take away your name and all of your abilities when using Ichimonji, and that is combined with those Urahadou techniques he has (what else can I call those giant hand and foot constructs).
> 
> ...



Soul crush off? Are you serious? He is so featless it's not even funny, I will throw some low ballers in.


Pre 52 Wally West
New 52 Barry Allen
New/Pre 52 Superman
Pre/New 52 Captain Atom
Pre/New 52 Martian Manhunter
Pre 52 Eobard Thawne
Pre 52 Hunter Zolomon
Wonder Woman with her Atom Splitting Sword


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## AgentAAA (Dec 17, 2014)

TobiSan said:


> Soul crush off? Are you serious? He is so featless it's not even funny, I will throw some low ballers in.
> 
> 
> Pre 52 Wally West
> ...



just about all of those are a stomp. He's looking for someone who can actually do it with it still being relatively even.


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## TobiSan (Dec 17, 2014)

AgentAAA said:


> just about all of those are a stomp. He's looking for someone who can actually do it with it still being relatively even.



He is massively featless, hard.


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## AgentAAA (Dec 17, 2014)

TobiSan said:


> He is massively featless, hard.



I mean that's true but that doesn't change that all these guys are going to stomp him no matter how much shit Kubo gives him.


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## Red Angel (Dec 17, 2014)

Kubo could give it an end. Actually that'd be a good thing for the series


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## Reborns Allmark (Dec 17, 2014)

What if Ichibei takes away the "-zilla" in "Godzilla"?


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## AgentAAA (Dec 17, 2014)

Reborns Allmark said:


> What if Ichibei takes away the "-zilla" in "Godzilla"?


implying either name even properly describes or comes close to defining the power of that majestic beast.


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## TobiSan (Dec 17, 2014)

AgentAAA said:


> I mean that's true but that doesn't change that all these guys are going to stomp him no matter how much shit Kubo gives him.



I meant that it's hard to find a balanced character against him since his only offensive feat is that huge hand thingy which isn't much.


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## Byrd (Dec 17, 2014)

Just wait for a more defined explanation of his powers (if we get it)....

Trying to understand this shit sometimes causes headaches with the occasionally mockery of Bleach


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## GiveRobert20dollars (Dec 17, 2014)

> Pre 52 Wally West
> New 52 Barry Allen
> New/Pre 52 Superman
> Pre/New 52 Captain Atom
> ...




...........................................................................................................................jesus christ this thread


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## Catalyst75 (Dec 17, 2014)

TobiSan said:


> Soul crush off? Are you serious? He is so featless it's not even funny, I will throw some low ballers in.
> 
> 
> Pre 52 Wally West
> ...



Here's what I said:



> So who can defeat Ichibei Hyosube *without being vastly more powerful than him*?



In other words, all the guys you suggested are not included in the discussion.  

As for being "featless", his entire showing during the fight with Yhwach was filled with feats - a number of which I listed off in the opening post.


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## B Rabbit (Dec 18, 2014)

Still couldn't beat Kizaru.


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## Zeno (Dec 18, 2014)

Probably not base Black Adam.


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## DarkTorrent (Dec 18, 2014)

pedo lovers are that way, Zangetto --->


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## Dogescartes (Dec 18, 2014)

Ichibei is like some nightmare construct from the depths of OBD 

He is also sub relativistic right?.


Holy shit Kubo


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## Louis Cyphre (Dec 18, 2014)

DarkTorrent said:


> pedo lovers are that way, Zangetto --->



Wait

That's Zangetto?


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## Nighty the Mighty (Dec 18, 2014)

Byrd said:


> Just wait for a more defined explanation of his powers (if we get it)....
> 
> Trying to understand this shit sometimes causes headaches with the occasionally mockery of Bleach



>if we get it
>we get it
>get it

so uh

how long have you been reading bleach byrd?

that's some hopeless optimism right there


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## SHM (Dec 18, 2014)

Aren't names in Bleach directly connected to someone's power? Like Kenpachi not being able to reach Shikai because he didn't know the name of his Zanpakutou? It looks like Ichibei's ability would only work on someone from Bleach, where names are actually important.

And after Soi-Fong's instant-death attack was negated by Aizen's reiatsu, I got the impression that hax abilities in Bleach don't mean much, if your power is far greater than your enemy's. Hell, that's probably the reason why Aizen didn't use his Shikai or Bankai against Dangai-Ichigo, because he knew it wouldn't work anyway.


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## blackguyinpinksuit (Dec 18, 2014)

Just equalize to make it effect people in other verses like it did juha(at least the techs were he cuts the name of a person in half, erase their name therefore erase their power and rename them should be treated like that). If they don't have resistance to it that is.

How his powers affect other verses weapons/techniques could be trickier i guess.


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## ZenithXAbyss (Dec 18, 2014)

SHM said:


> Hell, that's probably the reason why Aizen didn't use his Shikai or Bankai against Dangai-Ichigo, because he knew it wouldn't work anyway.



It disintegrated.


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## LazyWaka (Dec 18, 2014)

ZenithXAbyss said:


> It disintegrated.



Didn't it disintegrate after their battle?

Anyway, that doesn't really make sense considering Aizen was in complete denial over Ichigo's power up.


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## ZenithXAbyss (Dec 18, 2014)

LazyWaka said:


> Didn't it disintegrate after their battle?
> 
> Anyway, that doesn't really make sense considering Aizen was in complete denial over Ichigo's power up.



Ahhh yes.
Anyways, i think aizen is too arrogant at that point to use it anyway.


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## B Rabbit (Dec 18, 2014)

Still not beating Kizaru.


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## Piecesis (Dec 18, 2014)

B Rabbit said:


> Still not beating Kizaru.



Staph.


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## Dogescartes (Dec 18, 2014)

B Rabbit said:


> Still not beating Kizaru.



how not, dat darkness is really ink.


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## B Rabbit (Dec 18, 2014)

After this chapter he probably isn't even beating Don Sai.


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## Dogescartes (Dec 18, 2014)

More like Ywhach is broken  and his power does not make any sense (ty mr kubo)


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## Doriva (Dec 18, 2014)

If I get it right his power actually let him take control over Ichibei powers so this fight was more like good hax versus a better hax. Or just another power made to match exactly to oponent powers...


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## Casanova (Dec 18, 2014)

Dogescartes said:


> More like Ywhach is broken  and his power does not make any sense (ty mr kubo)



If you think Ywhach is broken with powers that don't make sense. Then just wait until that omnipotent Soul King show up along with Ichigo who I'm sure has 3 more powerups in him. 

Bleach is just getting started.


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## migukuni (Dec 20, 2014)

Any character than can out "aura" him or the like... in bleach it is in general consensus that a being more power than another can negate their ability

best example -> Negation of Soi Fongs Shikai...

So anyone stronger than Hachibei can negate his skills


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