# Controversial opinions and/or "secrets"



## OS (Apr 5, 2013)

Boredom. And hopefully this would be fun.

by secrets i mean something like how I read all of To Love Ru pt.1 and didn't hate it

Controversial opinion? I think Rak Wraithraiser is highly overrated


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## OtherGalaxy (Apr 5, 2013)

Controversial Opinions:
I find Urek Mazino more overrated tbh
I still like him regardless
Same with Urouge
Except I don't read OP so I haven no opinion on him besides that
Didn't think Aji Tae was as great a villain as he was hyped up to be


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## Golden Witch (Apr 5, 2013)

Being a fan of Umineko I have the most controversial opinion of the entire series being that Rosa is Beatrice and Yasu being a Deception to hide it.

Gotta understand how some readers think of this, it's crazy.


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## Samavarti (Apr 5, 2013)

I find Urek Mazino bastly overated, the guy has potential, but so far, he have hardly had any panel time, and has not depth, or much things to  differentiate him from many similar characters out there.
Terraformars is like the no porn version Gantz.
Kushana is better characters than Nausica?.
JJBA part 3 is unnecessarily long and gets repetitively rather quickly, also it has the least interesting team of main characters of JJBA.
Onepunch-Man is an enjoyable but quite forgettable manga. Also i get the author is a very good artist, but i don't need to be reminded every other chapter by unnecessarily long action sequences.


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## p-lou (Apr 5, 2013)

hxh is boring as fuck
bleach is dumb, but harmless and not worth the anger people seem to have for it
inuyasha ain't that bad
johan is a rip off not an opinion



Samavarti said:


> Kushana is better characters than Nausica?.


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## Blαck (Apr 5, 2013)

Secrets: 
I just started ToG today
I think Toriko has terrible pacing and a mediocre story.


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## OtherGalaxy (Apr 5, 2013)

I think Funny Valentine is by far the best villain in JJBA


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## Dream Brother (Apr 5, 2013)

I've never understood all the fuss over _One Piece_. I don't think it's terrible or anything, but I didn't really get much out of it either. (From what I read, anyway.) The only character I found even a little interesting was Usopp, because he seemed like the most human and sympathetic out of them, but it still wasn't enough for me to bother reading any more of the series.

Rachel is one of my favourite characters in _Tower of God_.


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## EVERY SINGLE DAY!!! (Apr 5, 2013)

Fairy Tail's fanservice is _weak _



Samavarti said:


> Kushana is better characters than Nausica?.


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## EndlessStrategy (Apr 5, 2013)

While there are certainly far better works out there, Bleach and Naruto get criticized far too scathingly.


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## Kirito (Apr 5, 2013)

I think many people are overrating the hell out of these "Mentor travels with Student" stories. Mix in a little blood, gore, nudity, and ambiguous morals and they think it's the most deep and thought-provoking manga ever. They never stop to think that maybe the most mature materials lie not in those coming-of-age stories with lots of blood but rather the ones they haven't read (Eg: Josei stories with lots of backstabbing, manga that mirror real life situations, how to deal with things when you're a single parent taking care of 4 kids, struggling to pay the bills, while your partner is outright cheating and there's nothing you can do about it).

Just my 2 cents.


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## Stunna (Apr 5, 2013)

20th Century Boys is unnecessarily long.
The Dark Tournament Arc of Yu Yu Hakusho is too long, and is inferior to Chapter Black.
The first forum I ever joined was dedicated to Sailor Moon.

Here're a couple.


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## OtherGalaxy (Apr 5, 2013)

Stunna said:


> The Dark Tournament Arc of Yu Yu Hakusho is too long, *and is inferior to Chapter Black.*
> 
> Here're a couple.



Agreed with this

Though I think Younger Toguro is a far better character/villain than Sensui was.


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## Mizura (Apr 5, 2013)

Original Sin said:


> I think Rak Wraithraiser is highly overrated






Dream Brother said:


> I've never understood all the fuss over _One Piece_.


I don't particularly like either HxH or One Piece either. I found the first hundred chapters or so of One Piece to be pure torture to waddle through (because OP fans kept telling me that it gets better later on), and found the rest to be readable but not particularly entertaining. I could see that it has better writing than Naruto or Bleach, but the style makes me really unable to take it seriously, it basically ended up as a bunch of clown-like one-dimensional characters beating other people up. :\ It could have been cute for a while, but it got old eventually.

And as for HxH, can't stand the bland main character. Blagh. Art doesn't help. The artist's attitude towards his work doesn't help.



> Rachel is one of my favourite characters in _Tower of God_.


 I don't necessarily like her as a person, but as a character I find she's awesome. She's a toad toying with the sharks. 



Hi Potion said:


> Fairy Tail's fanservice is _weak _


Seriously?  I don't find this controversial or anything, just.... seriously? 

I still think the first arc of JJBA isn't worth reading. Later arcs are awesome though, especially when they focus on unusual abilities instead of raw power. Actually, I think Koichi Hirose is my favorite character in the JJBA series.

Recently some people were wondering what the fuss about Assassination Classroom is about, but I find it more entertaining than any of the HST. Then again, that's also true with Beelzebub, Silver Spoon, and many other series. They never annoy the heck out of me.



> 20th Century Boys is unnecessarily long.


I think I agree with that. I barely managed to finish reading it. I already gave up on Billy Bat. Pluto is still my favorite from this author, followed by Monster (yes, I liked Pluto more, I think it had superior character emotions, I truly felt sad for all of the characters).


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## Badalight (Apr 5, 2013)

Stunna said:


> *[*]20th Century Boys is unnecessarily long.*
> The Dark Tournament Arc of Yu Yu Hakusho is too long, and is inferior to Chapter Black.
> The first forum I ever joined was dedicated to Sailor Moon.
> 
> Here're a couple.



I wouldn't say that's an unpopular opinion, I hear that a LOT.


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## OtherGalaxy (Apr 5, 2013)

Mizura said:


> I still think the first arc of JJBA isn't worth reading. Later arcs are awesome though, especially when they focus on unusual abilities instead of raw power. Actually, I think Koichi Hirose is my favorite character in the JJBA series.



While I wouldn't say Phantom Blood is anything great (though I still like it), I'd argue it's worth reading if not only for Dio. Villains have always been Araki's strong point imo and Part 3 Dio will just suck without that extra development for him. If you skip Part 1 altogether that is.


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## Stunna (Apr 5, 2013)

Badalight said:


> I wouldn't say that's an unpopular opinion, I hear that a LOT.


Never mind me, then.


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## OS (Apr 5, 2013)

Hi Potion said:


> Fairy Tail's fanservice is _weak _



you pretty much shitted on the one thing Fairy Tail had left.


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## JoJo (Apr 5, 2013)

I felt very powerful feels for Shizar (Ceaser) + Will A Zeppeli. 

Edit: Also Minato has a _great_ design.


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## Stunna (Apr 5, 2013)

The Skypiea Arc of One Piece was not too long, and isn't comparable to the Namek Saga.


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## Samavarti (Apr 6, 2013)

One Piece aside from like two arcs is a really average shounen.
Urasawa has issues with his endings.


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## wibisana (Apr 6, 2013)

Sasuke is/was originally rip off of Kurapika (public secret actually) and also Uchiha clan

Though I admit OP is better than Naruto somehow I prefer Naruto

Sakura is bad char (I hate her), but her hentai/doujinshi is okay to me.

I dont understand 90% of HxH (especially the detail/hatsu etc) but I love HxH

Oooku 
I like this seinen

Alita is overrated, I find her char is ambiguous


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## Es (Apr 6, 2013)

I couldn't get overly motivated enough to read enough OP to catch up


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## Reyes (Apr 6, 2013)

I don't hate Sakura.

I don't care that much for Toriko at all.


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## p-lou (Apr 6, 2013)

Samavarti said:


> Urasawa has issues with his endings.



more than just his endings


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## SternRitter (Apr 6, 2013)

- I enjoyed K-On to an extent that I finished it. 

- Although still a good manga, YYH gets way too much praise. 

- The Chimera Ant arc in HxH is the definition of shit.

- JJBA is fantastic, except for part 5.


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## Jay Kay (Apr 6, 2013)

- I think HxH is a pretty weak manga, and the only reason it seems like quality to some people is because the author shoves every single thing he's trying to achieve down his readers' throats. 
Most authors are way more subtle, but since Togashi makes everything excruciatingly obvious, to the point I feel he's sometimes insulting people's intelligence, it seems like the manga is more than it actually is.

- I stopped caring about One Piece a long time ago. Still think the Skypiea arc is one of the best arcs in shonen though.
And I never understood why people don't like the Davy Back Fight.

- There are one or two things that I like to defend about Sakura.


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## Basilikos (Apr 6, 2013)

I'm probably going to be stoned to death by an angry mob for some of these. 


I didn't find the original Battle Angel Alita manga to be all that great. Too bleak for my tastes and it was boring at times. LO is better if you ask me.

One Piece, from the first 120 chapters or so that I read leads me to believe that it's just a generic and overrated shounen series.

20th Century Boys was an excellent manga, but it really started to drag after a while.

Critics of Negima unfairly magnify the manga's weaknesses while often completely neglecting its strengths.

Toriko is an underrated series (outside of NF).

Other than its artwork, Shin Angyo Onshi was meh.

Other than its artwork, I don't see what is so amazing about Vagabond.

Project ARMS is one of the most underrated shounen mangas ever.


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## OtherGalaxy (Apr 6, 2013)

While I liked Shin Angyo Onshi (well my current set's from it so I guess that may have been obvious), I couldn't get into it for some reason
There was no sense of attachment like there was when I read Tower of God for example

Which I can't really understand because the plot was good, and characters like Won Sul were genuinely interesting and well-developed
But at the same time it always gave me this weird "distant" feeling


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## ZenithXAbyss (Apr 6, 2013)

HxH is overrated as fuck
FMA is overrated as fuck
TTGL is overrated as fuck(looking at you, kamina )
Toriko is a bit overrated
JJBA has gheyish vibes from art. (still like it anyways)
Evangelion is a bit overrated too.
Bleach is overly hated.
Kurosawa is good despite it's premise.


Secrets?

Hatsu is my favorite character in Tower Of God.
XiaXiaxBaam(OG )




Dream Brother said:


> Rachel is one of my favourite characters in _Tower of God_.


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## Basilikos (Apr 6, 2013)

OtherGalaxy said:


> While I liked Shin Angyo Onshi (well my current set's from it so I guess that may have been obvious), I couldn't get into it for some reason
> There was no sense of attachment like there was when I read Tower of God for example
> 
> Which I can't really understand because the plot was good, and characters like Won Sul were genuinely interesting and well-developed
> But at the same time it always gave me this weird "distant" feeling


For me, I found the various arcs to be disjointed and lacking in satisfying conclusions. Everything just felt like it was pointless and going nowhere. I also didn't really feel drawn into the world the mangaka (or is it manhwaka? ) was creating. Whereas in series like JJBA, Bastard, Toriko, Guyver, etc, I do feel immersed into the story and world.


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## ZenithXAbyss (Apr 6, 2013)

Basilikos said:


> For me, I found the various arcs to be disjointed and lacking in satisfying conclusions. Everything just felt like it was pointless and going nowhere. I also didn't really feel drawn into the world the mangaka (or is it manhwaka? ) was creating. Whereas in series like JJBA, Bastard, Toriko, Guyver, etc, I do feel immersed into the story and world.



Yeah, it i manhwaka.
You should try Tower of god some time too, bas.


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## OtherGalaxy (Apr 6, 2013)

Basilikos said:


> For me, I found the various arcs to be disjointed and lacking in satisfying conclusions. Everything just felt like it was pointless and going nowhere. I also didn't really feel drawn into the world the mangaka (or is it manhwaka? ) was creating. Whereas in series like JJBA, Bastard, Toriko, Guyver, etc, I do feel immersed into the story and world.



Yeah that was a big issue. I just couldn't get immersed or emotionally attached.

With Tower of God and JJBA, it was more of an experience while SAO was akin to going through the motions. It was still good, but I could never get the sense of being "part of it" as odd as that may sound.

I think part of this was just due to how out of place Sando was.
Inexplicably dresses like a stripper (the artist even stated he didn't understand that).
Pretty much no personality.
Her actions defied all logic and common sense.

I wonder how much better the manga would've been without her, or at least with just her character improved.

Now that being said, the Battle of Jushin flashback was incredibly well done and imo the highest point in the series.

Also Zenith


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## Scratchy (Apr 6, 2013)

Dream Brother said:


> I've never understood all the fuss over _One Piece_. I don't think it's terrible or anything, but I didn't really get much out of it either. (From what I read, anyway.) The only character I found even a little interesting was Usopp, because he seemed like the most human and sympathetic out of them, but it still wasn't enough for me to bother reading any more of the series.


Exactly this.



> Rachel is one of my favourite characters in _Tower of God_.



Also this. You can hate her for her absolutely terrible personality, but she's one of the most interesting characters in the series.

What else, Negima's fight scenes were pretty fun to read, despite all the rest.


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## OtherGalaxy (Apr 6, 2013)

I applaud SIU for writing Rachel/Lahel (I know it's wrong, I just like calling her this regardless) in a manner that actually elicits some sort of response. I hadn't read anything where the villain really made me hate them in a while.


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## Powerful Lord (Apr 6, 2013)

-JoJo's Bizarre Adventure is overrated
-One Piece, Naruto and Bleach started original for shounens and ofered a good mythology and plot, even if they are no longer as good as they used to they still don't deserve most of their hate.
-No, most shonens out there aren't better than the HST, once one of those mangas becomes mainstream people start to see how terrible it trully was, Fairy Tail's the best example.
-Magi's good but not so amazing, it's already showing signs of starting to lose it's edge, it's just as good as the HST were back in the day.


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## PPsycho (Apr 6, 2013)

Let's see now, opinions that could be controversial, from top of my head:
-I found both _Monster_ and _Nausicaa of the valley of the wind_ not to live up to their hype of being a masterpiece. I still liked them a lot, but I found both of them lacking in certain aspects.
-I like Rachel as well.
-I enjoyed Pluto more then both Monster and 20th century boys(though I still have that T-rex song on my mp3)
-I couldn't read One Piece because it bored me, though I find the art charming


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## Mizura (Apr 6, 2013)

lol, all the Rachel fans are coming out. xD



OtherGalaxy said:


> While I wouldn't say Phantom Blood is anything great (though I still like it), I'd argue it's worth reading if not only for Dio.


What I did was try several times to get past the crap-cheesy first chapters or so, so in the end I gave up and just read the final chapters. Still don't think it's worth it. 



Basilikos said:


> Other than its artwork, Shin Angyo Onshi was meh.
> Other than its artwork, I don't see what is so amazing about Vagabond.


Huh, funny, I actually started reading both and eventually just dropped them out of lack of interest. I did read the ending arc of Shin Angyo Onshi though, and that was fantastic, but when I tried to read the middle again, I dropped it again.

The series that the author of SAO did afterwards though (Defense Devil) was complete crap (though I guess this is off-topic because nobody would think otherwise. The first few chapters were fun and that's it).



PPsycho said:


> -I found both _Monster_ and _Nausicaa of the valley of the wind_ not to live up to their hype of being a masterpiece. I still liked them a lot, but I found both of them lacking in certain aspects.


I'd actually agree, somehow. I enjoyed both, but they didn't really resonate with me, so once I finished reading them, I never felt like reading them again. They're like those high literature novels you're made to read in class, you can come up with a million reasons why they're awesome, and they are, but afterwards you don't feel like reading them again. You don't regret reading them either, it's more like you're just not drawn in so much by the world and characters that you'd want to visit them again.

By contrast, I could really feel for the characters of Pluto. I felt so sad each time one of the characters died. They may have been less complicated and such, but they were more sympathetic.


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## x5exotic (Apr 6, 2013)

1- Yu Yu Hakusho sucks
2- Speedwagon is gay
3- Enies Lobby is one of the worst arcs in the history of manga
4- Toriko is retarded and worse than fairy tail
5- Berserk is at the same level as Bleach


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## OS (Apr 6, 2013)

Powerful Lord said:


> -JoJo's Bizarre Adventure is overrated
> -One Piece, Naruto and Bleach started original for shounens and ofered a good mythology and plot, even if they are no longer as good as they used to they still don't deserve most of their hate.
> *-No, most shonens out there aren't better than the HST, once one of those mangas becomes mainstream people start to see how terrible it trully was, Fairy Tail's the best example.
> -Magi's good but not so amazing, it's already showing signs of starting to lose it's edge, it's just as good as the HST were back in the day.*



I agree with this. Though I would argue that Fairy Tail up to a point was fun to read.


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## OtherGalaxy (Apr 6, 2013)

Mizura said:


> lol, all the Rachel fans are coming out. xD


She's an excellent villain 


> What I did was try several times to get past the crap-cheesy first chapters or so, so in the end I gave up and just read the final chapters. Still don't think it's worth it.


Well, I can't say I agree with you but hey, that's the point of the thread


> Huh, funny, I actually started reading both and eventually just dropped them out of lack of interest. I did read the ending arc of Shin Angyo Onshi though, and that was fantastic, but when I tried to read the middle again, I dropped it again.


I think you would've liked some of the flashback arc then, considering the ending was actually quite rushed and sloppy in comparison.


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## Aldric (Apr 6, 2013)

Controversial opinion (WARNING: IT COULD CREATE CONTROVERSY!!!!): if you don't like One Piece your fundamental human rights should be revoked


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## x5exotic (Apr 6, 2013)

Powerful Lord said:


> -JoJo's Bizarre Adventure is overrated
> -One Piece, Naruto and Bleach started original for shounens and ofered a good mythology and plot, even if they are no longer as good as they used to they still don't deserve most of their hate.
> -No, most shonens out there aren't better than the HST, once one of those mangas becomes mainstream people start to see how terrible it trully was, Fairy Tail's the best example.
> -Magi's good but not so amazing, it's already showing signs of starting to lose it's edge, it's just as good as the HST were back in the day.


That's not really controversial.

1- Most Jojo fans themselves admit Jojo doesn't have a great story to begin with
2- Most people acknowledge that the big 3 started out well (except for Bleach) and are now declining
3- Yes. Most SHONENS ARE better. Most BATTLE-shonens..aren't. Because there are only a couple of good ones anyway
4- Magi's not even that popular to make this controversial


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## Dellinger (Apr 6, 2013)

HxH doesn't have an amazing cast as people state (Still pretty awesome)
Toriko is the most overrated manga currently by far.


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## Killerqueen (Apr 6, 2013)

- One pIece is overrated 
- Level E was one of the best manga Togashi ever made
- something about Mahaw turn me off


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## Dellinger (Apr 6, 2013)

Oh and that the election arc of HxH it's easily the best one of the series.


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## OtherGalaxy (Apr 6, 2013)

Killerqueen said:


> - One pIece is overrated
> - *Level E was one of the best manga Togashi ever made*
> - something about Mahaw turn me off



Still need to read this, thanks for reminding me


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## p-lou (Apr 6, 2013)

aside from north #2 pluto is pretty crappy.  the treatment of atom was awful, trying to make gesicht the main character was a big mistake, repetitive story telling techniques, and the shoehorned overly simple political allegory was laughable.  i appreciate that he's trying to retell an old story in a new way, but trying to make a murder mystery out of it just didn't work.

urusawa is better at ripping off tezuka characters than writing them.


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## Mizura (Apr 6, 2013)

> Still need to read this, thanks for reminding me


^ Just read the first arc of that one, thanks Killerqueen for the rec, the first arc at least was awesome, man what a Huge troll! X"D


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## Stilzkin (Apr 6, 2013)

YYH is just alright, there is nothing special about the dark tournament.

Rachel, from ToG, is a boring villain. She inspires neither hatred nor interest from me. Unless I'm missing something she isn't all that developed.


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## Hakan Erkan (Apr 6, 2013)

Dark Schneider from Bastard!! is easily the best protagonist in any Manga.

Berserk is too long winded hence I lost interest in it.

JJBA has gone downhill after part 4.

Hunter X Hunter is overrated.


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## x5exotic (Apr 6, 2013)

HxH can't really be overrated


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## x5exotic (Apr 6, 2013)

EndlessStrategy said:


> While there are certainly far better works out there, Bleach and Naruto get criticized far too scathingly.



Not at the moment. They need all the possible because right now they are way too bad now

I mean a few weeks ago I was talking about how Bleach is getting better than OP but now oh my god it's so boring and draggy I'm not even sure I dropped it or not seeing how many chapters I missed.


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## Cheeky (Apr 6, 2013)

The majority of _Bleach_ fans don't have the sufficient level of reading comprehension required to actually understand the manga.


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## EndlessStrategy (Apr 6, 2013)

x5exotic said:


> Not at the moment. They need all the possible because right now they are way too bad now
> 
> I mean a few weeks ago I was talking about how Bleach is getting better than OP but now oh my god it's so boring and draggy I'm not even sure I dropped it or not seeing how many chapters I missed.


It seems more like people de-emphasize what Bleach and Naruto do right. It's fine to criticize, but eventually people start taking those criticisms to mean that both series are trash. As far as entertainment goes, one could do far, far worse. Yet they're treated like the bottom of the barrel on most forums I visit.


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## JoJo (Apr 6, 2013)

-Dragon Ball/Z is my favorite series, doubt it will ever be topped. 
-Reading manga makes me sleepy.
-Also I dislike romance series I find them boring.
-At times I find HxH overrated by some people.
-Tower of God is also overrated, but has some great characters. (I'm gonna get stoned for this lol)
-JJBA is very unpredictable and is a reason on why I love it.
-I also think that Bleach and Naruto fans hate One Piece cause the fans hate there series. lol


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## Dellinger (Apr 6, 2013)

x5exotic said:


> HxH can't really be overrated



So most series can except from HxH?Lol


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## Cheeky (Apr 6, 2013)

JoJo said:


> -Dragon Ball/Z is my favorite series, doubt it will ever be topped.



Actually you reminded me of something else;

Dragon Ball/Z is my favourite completed series and I wish it was still running.


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## Cheeky (Apr 6, 2013)

I found The Lucifer and the Biscuit Hammer so boring, and the protagonist so unlikable, that I had to drop it. And I regret even reading the thing.


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## OS (Apr 6, 2013)

Cheeky said:


> Actually you reminded me of something else;
> 
> Dragon Ball/Z is my favourite completed series and I wish it was still running.



It is (apparently unless it's an online joke), I keep seeing people saying that Toriyama is going to have a 200 ep anime.


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## Bilaal (Apr 6, 2013)

-Urasawa is overrated and is only slightly above average compared to other seinen mangaka
-I love NANA
-One Piece is fine and hasn't dropped much in quality 
-HxH's novelty wears off after the first 100 or so chapters and drops in quality STEEPLY
-Anything by Jiro Taniguchi cures insomnia besides a few of his short stories
-I can count on my hands the number of memorable characters in Houshin Engi
-Erza is an AWFUL character


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## Cheeky (Apr 6, 2013)

Original Sin said:


> It is (apparently unless it's an online joke), I keep seeing people saying that Toriyama is going to have a 200 ep anime.



I doubt that. The new film's causing a lot of revival rumours to circulate.

I'd much prefer the manga to continue, over a new anime series anyway.


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## OS (Apr 6, 2013)

A Dragon Ball GT manga


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## Cheeky (Apr 6, 2013)

Original Sin said:


> A Dragon Ball GT manga



I dunno, I hear GT is pretty awful.

But Baby sounded like an interesting idea.


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## OtherGalaxy (Apr 6, 2013)

GT did have some interesting ideas
Just garbage execution


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## Morglay (Apr 6, 2013)

My reading comprehension skills are not at a level capable of understanding any of the WSJ series.


*Spoiler*: __ 



Yet I love them anyway.


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## p-lou (Apr 6, 2013)

Bilaal said:


> -I can count on my hands the number of memorable characters in Houshin Engi



i can't remember anyone's name

they're too hard


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## Samavarti (Apr 6, 2013)

xxHolic was quite good when it was not being TC spin-off.
Junji Ito mangas are not really scary just creepy.


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## Wrath (Apr 6, 2013)

Reading raws (in languages you can't understand, at least) is eclipsed only in stupidity by reading spoilers.

Fanservice is my least favourite part of any otherwise interesting manga.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Apr 6, 2013)

Secret: I like toriko more then one piece for quite some time now.
Tog is my favorite we comic.

Controversial: Tog overrated as hell. Jojos first arc is very good IMO.


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## blackhound89 (Apr 6, 2013)

TTGL and HNK are both  predictable  and lack depth .

My brain knows bleach, naruto , toriko and most shounens sucks, and they suck badly, but I cant miss even one week without checking them


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## JoJo (Apr 6, 2013)

Also I find Magi to be over rated. I read the first 80ish chapters and thought it was decent.


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## Jagger (Apr 6, 2013)

I find OP highly overrated


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## Basilikos (Apr 7, 2013)

OtherGalaxy said:


> GT did have some interesting ideas
> Just garbage execution


Pretty much this.

Oh, and I thought of a couple more controversial opinions of mine. 

- Hokuto no Ken is one of the most overrated anime/manga series of all time. The plot is abysmally weak, incredibly repetitive, and the senseless slaughter/gore doesn't do the series' quality any favors either. Its prequel Souten no Ken, however, is actually an excellent manga and it desires more attention and praise than HnK.

- The first half of Houshin Engi bored the hell out of me. The second half is a good read though.


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## Crimson Dragoon (Apr 7, 2013)

-Negima blows ass aside from the fight scenes
-Pretty Cure is manlier than most shounen
-Berserk is losing steam and I don't keep an eye on it like I used to, though I'd still recommend reading its earlier arcs
-Beast Machines isn't that bad in retro-oh wait this is supposed to be animus/mangos 
-.hack//SIGN bored the shit out of me

hell if I know if those are actually CONTROVERSIAL, but they can be unpopular in some circles I can think of


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## x5exotic (Apr 7, 2013)

Well since a bad manga is popular it's gonna got more criticism than a bad manga that is not popular 

Maybe it's because, in comparison, One piece doesn't get as much criticised despite the same flaws, that these 2 manga seem to be bullied
But that's not really an excuse for them. Especially the idiot Kishimoto who doesn't learn from his mistake and thinks that more zombies was a good idea




White Hawk said:


> So most series can except from HxH?Lol



Jojo can't be, SnK can't be, and HxH can't be (for several, different reasons though)


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## 8 (Apr 7, 2013)

our current line up of ongoing shounen/seinen in the action, adventure, fantasy or comedy genres has been stronger then ever. with ongoing titles as one piece, shingeki no kyojin, toriko, magi, one punch man, (and more) we are more spoiled then any other generation.

old titles such as hakuto no ken, yu yu hakusho, dragon ball are quite overrated. people let themselves be influenced by nostalgia. i would bet if bleach had been released around that period it would now have been regarded as an untouchable classic.

current weekly shounen jump line up is pretty amazing. with one piece, gintama, beelzebub, toriko, psi kusuo saiki, shokugeki no souma, assassination classroom, sket dance. and even medaka box, cross manage, kiruko-san, nisekoi, which i don't think are anything near masterpieces can be enjoyable. while the sport series kuroko no basket and haikyuu (i don't read them) are going strong.


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Apr 7, 2013)

blackhound89 said:


> TTGL and HNK are both  predictable  and lack depth .
> 
> My brain knows bleach, naruto , toriko and most shounens sucks, and they suck badly, but I cant miss even one week without checking them



Toriko sucks GTFO -_-


----------



## Danchou (Apr 7, 2013)

One Piece is very formulaic.


----------



## x5exotic (Apr 7, 2013)

Toriko DOES suck, glad people are catching up on that


----------



## Hellblazer (Apr 7, 2013)

-I defend one piece even though i can see its faults... (not many though)
-I find comics more enjoyable than manga .
-Im not really a big fan of DBZ though it is quite enjoyable sometimes.
cant think of anything else right now


----------



## Byrd (Apr 7, 2013)

My Opinions:

ToG (Part One) didn't live up to the hype I've been seeing, it was great but not amazing 

One Piece has been kinda Boring for a while

Bleach just sucks

Anything past the Frieza part in DBZ doesn't hold much water in terms of plot

YYH earlier parts > latter parts

Naruto been piss poor since the start of the second half

Highschool of the Dead has an amazing concept, just too much damn ecchi and fan service shit.. still like the entire zombie idea 

Claymore seems to be getting worst and worst 

Toriko really lacks in the story although I enjoy reading it

Kamisama no Iutoori did in 20 chapters what many mangas can't do in 100 and that's actually tell a decent story with a central theme.

They are so many underrated manga that deserve much more attention than these mainstream mangas


----------



## ZenithXAbyss (Apr 7, 2013)

Anyways.
Secrets-
Been rereading gantz this past few days. (330 chapters in 3 days)

Controversial-
Imo, gantz isn't as bad as some people may claim to be.
I mean, there are some bad chapters, but there are also good/badass chapters from time to time.
Tbh, i'd probably give it a 7, Which isn't really bad.
Also, reading them in one go also helps.


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Apr 7, 2013)

x5exotic said:


> Toriko DOES suck, glad people are catching up on that



You suck Exotic.

Secret: get backers is a high tier manga read it now.


----------



## OS (Apr 7, 2013)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Toriko sucks GTFO -_-



I kind of dropped Toriko when they fought the 4 beast because everyone was praising it and then it that fight turned to real bullshit right there.


----------



## Renegade Knight (Apr 7, 2013)

Most of the seinen I've read (Berserk, Monster, Hellsing, etc.) are pretty overrated.


----------



## B Rabbit (Apr 7, 2013)

Toriko is no where near as good as One Piece or Dragon Ball, and people are fooling themselves believing it will be as popular as them. 

One Piece will never be as good as it once was. I feel like Oda forgot how to write a good story. 

Bleach never had potential in the first place.

Naruto easily had the most potential.

Berserk is easily the best Seinen ever.

Toriko has a shitty story line. 

Don't get me wrong, I like Toriko, but it's not as good as people say it is. I'm understanding why it's only really popular here, and average everywhere else.


----------



## Hakan Erkan (Apr 7, 2013)

Renegade Knight said:


> Most of the seinen I've read (Berserk, Monster, Hellsing, etc.) are pretty overrated.



Try Bastard!!.

It's da best Seinen.


----------



## B Rabbit (Apr 7, 2013)

I also thought Part 1 > Part 2 Dragon Ball. 

I also found YYH > DBZ.


----------



## Renegade Knight (Apr 7, 2013)

Hakan Erkan said:


> Try Bastard!!.
> 
> It's da best Seinen.



I'll take a mental note of that.


----------



## B Rabbit (Apr 7, 2013)

I liked Bastard!! Altough theres a gap in scanalation volumes.


----------



## Hakan Erkan (Apr 7, 2013)

Torafarugo Ro said:


> I liked Bastard!! Altough theres a gap in scanalation volumes.



Times like these I wish I could read Japanese, fucking unscanalted volumes.


----------



## Powerful Lord (Apr 7, 2013)

Byrdman said:


> My Opinions:
> 
> ToG (Part One) didn't live up to the hype I've been seeing, it was great but not amazing
> 
> ...



Those aren't very controversial opinions


----------



## blackhound89 (Apr 7, 2013)

bleach is one of these mangas that you love to hate but must continue reading anyways


----------



## Narutossss (Apr 7, 2013)

naruto didn't start sucking when part 2 started, the first few arcs were pretty good and then it started slipping 

fairy tail as sucked for a long time now...

one piece been boring since fishman island so I dropped it.

berserk hasn't started slipping. the slow as pace is what's killing it.

claymore has been boring as fuck for years and is dragging worse than an old womans saggy tits.


----------



## OtherGalaxy (Apr 7, 2013)

Probably not controversial, but I really didn't like DBZ past Namek Saga.

Secret: I like Broly


----------



## reaperunique (Apr 7, 2013)

One Piece is stupid and boring to me.


----------



## Badalight (Apr 7, 2013)

Toriko seems to be getting a lot of hate because of its recent popularity. It's just a fun manga, don't try to make it anything more than that. It's pure high octane entertainment and it doesn't take itself seriously. It's a fun homage/parody to battle manga, and the person who writes it is a fucking nutjob (Eiji from Bakuman was based off of him, yes he has pink hair).


----------



## Mist Puppet (Apr 7, 2013)

I dropped Magi around Chapter 35 (I think that was when Ali Baba was revealed as the fog troupe leader). Just lost any interest in it at that point. Before that point, it wasn't really anything special (though Morgiana was kawaii sugoi desu)


----------



## Renegade Knight (Apr 7, 2013)

Hakan Erkan said:


> Times like these I wish I could read Japanese, fucking unscanalted volumes.



Damn, those poses rival JJBA poses.


----------



## OS (Apr 7, 2013)

Badalight said:


> Toriko seems to be getting a lot of hate because of its recent popularity. It's just a fun manga, don't try to make it anything more than that. It's pure high octane entertainment and it doesn't take itself seriously. It's a fun homage/parody to battle manga, and the person who writes it is a fucking nutjob (Eiji from Bakuman was based off of him, yes he has pink hair).



About him. People talk shit about other writers, but didn't he get in trouble for paying a 16 yr old for sex?


----------



## OtherGalaxy (Apr 7, 2013)

That art style looks so nice too


----------



## Scizor (Apr 7, 2013)

*Controversial (at least on NF):*
- I think Masashi Kishimoto is a good writer; I love his use of symbolism and themes and the overal course he chose for the manga. I'm not saying he's the best or one of the best, but I am saying that he produced a manga that I REALLY like for its story, characters and character interactions.
- I think Naruto is a great manga. Imo alot of the hate it receives here isn't justified. To each their own of course though.
- D. Gray-Man would've been my favorie shonen if it wasn't monthly during the last period of its existence and if it wasn't canceled, as it's a perfect combination of awesomeness, humor and likeable characters/character designs.

Though in the light of differing opinions and possible bias this entire thread is a bit silly.

*Secret:* I dislike Luffy based off as far as I've read OP.


----------



## B Rabbit (Apr 7, 2013)

I don't get people who drop Manga during some boring parts. Even you enjoyed a manga for 100s of chapters, yet drop it for 40 means you weren't really a fan to begin with, you shouldn't be judging a manga based on that.

It would be different if the manga has been bad for 100 chapters +. This is ofcourse is if the series is long running.


----------



## B Rabbit (Apr 7, 2013)

Toriko isn't getting alot of hate because it's popular. It's barely popular, it's getting hate because all it's fans are saying it's something when it's clearly not. 

The only series you can use the popularity argument is for Naruto/Dragon Ball/One Piece because out of all manga out right now, their dominating every anime community.


----------



## Powerful Lord (Apr 7, 2013)

Torafarugo Ro said:


> Toriko isn't getting alot of hate because it's popular. *It's barely popular*, it's getting hate because all it's fans are saying it's something when it's clearly not.
> 
> The only series you can use the popularity argument is for Naruto/Dragon Ball/One Piece because out of all manga out right now, their dominating every anime community.



We're talking about it inside the anime/ manga comunity, inside it it's very popular.


----------



## Shiny (Apr 7, 2013)

Fairy tail>>>Rave Master


and all arcs of gantz are good


----------



## Byrd (Apr 7, 2013)

Some more:

Fairy Tail is among the worst shonen ever 

Knight Run story isn't all that great but it's still a good read

Secrets:

I like to read Sankarea and Nisekoi

Read one chapter of Tokyo Akazukin and almost threw up on how disgusted and disturbing it is


----------



## Shiny (Apr 7, 2013)

Byrdman said:


> Some more:
> 
> *Fairy Tail is among the worst shonen ever
> *




Controversial? I think you don't visit the FT forum that much


----------



## Byrd (Apr 7, 2013)

ShinyMarch said:


> Controversial? I think you don't visit the FT forum that much



The Fairy Tail section thinks its a terrible manga... Good, they are starting to realize how shitty it is


----------



## Shiny (Apr 7, 2013)

Well,they think its terrible since the edolas arc,you have to agree,the start was good or at least average


----------



## JoJo (Apr 7, 2013)

I think if you dislike or think DB was a horrible series than something is wrong with you.


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Apr 7, 2013)

ShinyMarch said:


> Fairy tail>>>Rave Master
> 
> 
> and all arcs of gantz are good



Yea no.

Rave Master deserves at the very least a 5/10 aka ok manga.

Fairy tail deserves no such thing.


----------



## Yuki (Apr 7, 2013)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Yea no.
> 
> Rave Master deserves at the very least a 5/10 aka ok manga.
> 
> Fairy tail deserves no such thing.



Look at your set bro .



JoJo said:


> I think if you dislike or think DB was a horrible series than something is wrong with you.



This.


----------



## Stilzkin (Apr 7, 2013)

Original Sin said:


> About him. People talk shit about other writers, but didn't he get in trouble for paying a 16 yr old for sex?



She was a prostitute. Basically he got caught with a prostitute who was underage.


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Apr 7, 2013)

Zeref said:


> Look at your set bro .
> 
> 
> 
> This.



Fairy tail being a crap manga does not change the fact Gray, Sting, Jellal, and Rogue are fine as hell.


----------



## OS (Apr 7, 2013)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Yea no.
> 
> Rave Master deserves at the very least a *5/10 aka ok manga.*
> 
> Fairy tail deserves no such thing.



killurself.

The ending was bad though.


----------



## B Rabbit (Apr 7, 2013)

I liked RAVE until towards the end where it dropped in quality.


----------



## Yuki (Apr 7, 2013)

Torafarugo Ro said:


> I liked RAVE until towards the end where it dropped in quality.



That was because of what followed .

Hiro went from a 4/10 writer (Beginning of Rave) to reach the 8/10 point (Middle part of Rave), after that he just keeps dropping dropping dropping.


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Apr 7, 2013)

Original Sin said:


> killurself.
> 
> The ending was bad though.



Re-read my post.

I said it deserves at the very least a 5/10 meaning that's the lowest rating i would accept. 

I personally give rave a 7.5/10.


----------



## Imagine (Apr 7, 2013)

- ToG: Good series, but overrated.


----------



## Kirito (Apr 7, 2013)

Mist Puppet said:


> I dropped Magi around Chapter 35 (I think that was when Ali Baba was revealed as the fog troupe leader). Just lost any interest in it at that point. Before that point, it wasn't really anything special (though Morgiana was kawaii sugoi desu)



count me in, but for different reasons. i dropped that shit when aladdin started taking a backseat to everything happening. last time i took a peek it was about duels and managing your rukh. i put 2 and 2 together and realized magi became some kind of battle manga with territorial disputes and subpar morgiana romance. tsk. another potential adventure manga down the drain.


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Apr 8, 2013)

Kirito said:


> count me in, but for different reasons. i dropped that shit *when aladdin started taking a backseat to everything happening. *last time i took a peek it was about duels and managing your rukh.* i put 2 and 2 together and realized magi became some kind of battle manga with territorial disputes and subpar morgiana romance. tsk. another potential adventure manga down the drain.*







Imagine said:


> - ToG: Good series, but overrated.



Agreed.


----------



## Aldric (Apr 8, 2013)

This thread should be renamed "be contrarian and talk shit about good manga"


----------



## Stannis (Apr 8, 2013)

The art in one piece sucks.


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Apr 8, 2013)

Compared to the art of your set yea.

Overall no. I don't think one piece is badly drawn although I understand the art style is not to someone's tastes, but that's different then the art being bad. 

For example HXH now that's bad art, style wise I like the character design/world Ect but again the art itself is just ugh.


----------



## Magic (Apr 8, 2013)

What is with all the ToG Talk on page 1.


----------



## OtherGalaxy (Apr 8, 2013)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> For example HXH now that's bad art, style wise I like the character design/world Ect but again the art itself is just ugh.



I'm the exact opposite. The art of HxH doesn't bug me (YYH's art was nothing special except for rare instances such as the Younger Toguro face closeup) but I could never get into HxH's character designs, some of the Chimera Ants excluded.


----------



## Narutossss (Apr 8, 2013)

Torafarugo Ro said:


> *I don't get people who drop Manga during some boring parts. Even you enjoyed a manga for 100s of chapters, yet drop it for 40 means you weren't really a fan to begin with*, you shouldn't be judging a manga based on that.
> 
> It would be different if the manga has been bad for 100 chapters +. This is ofcourse is if the series is long running.



soo by this logic if a married couple got a divorce because they drifted apart means they never loved each other to begin with?


----------



## Torpedo Titz (Apr 8, 2013)

Imagine said:


> - ToG: Good series, but overrated.



Eh, I disagree.

It's just mentioned every time someone breathes in the KLF2.


----------



## ZenithXAbyss (Apr 8, 2013)

Lolimagine....


----------



## Imagine (Apr 8, 2013)

Knew I could get you to post Zenath.



Jon Stark said:


> Eh, I disagree.
> 
> It's just mentioned every time someone breathes in the KLF2.



Only you understand, JS.


----------



## Mihawk (Apr 8, 2013)

-Naruto is a fucking sack of shit
-Bleach is a fucking sack of shit(Quincies are great though)
-Fairy Tail is a fucking sack of shit

-One Piece, Berserk, YYH, and Monster are classics

Oh wait, that's consensus, not controversy.


----------



## Kirito (Apr 8, 2013)

thread is about sharing controversial opinions. if you have nothing constructive to say for me talking shit about your favorite manga then don't quote bro. somehow down the line it became about alibaba regaining his kingdom instead of aladdin's adventures trying to find ugo's head. i didn't sign up for magi to see another underdog battle manga. it was a shame too, since when it first came out in the scans i was already reading it. everyone was complaining about when aladdin flew all the way to that nomad encampment and started solving shit. everyone said it was boring but i liked it.


----------



## Mizura (Apr 8, 2013)

Twilight Sparkle is a much better leader than the main character of most of the popular Shounen manga right now:

Can resolve problems in ways other than beating sh*t up (though she can do that too)
Relies on careful research to find solutions, preferably non-violent
Knows when to rely on others / Doesn't pretend that charging in by yourself is a good thing
Quick to admit her faults and works hard to improve herself / Doesn't pretend that being stubborn is a good thing
Intelligent, organized, has shown herself capable of assigning tasks to a whole village. I would trust her with the paperwork that comes with a leadership position.

Corollary: The main characters of most Shounen are sh*t compared to a purple pony.  If the people in their world actually worship said main character, then I'll consider that shit writing. (exceptions made for pure comedic situations)


----------



## tupadre97 (Apr 8, 2013)

I think the majority of One Piece "fans" don't know anything about the manga and like it just bcuz of the fights and "adventure" feeling. They don't know or respect anything about the real story behind One Piece.

Also I think DBZ isn't that bad of a series. U just gotta take it for what it is and enjoy the action.

Also Berserk is the greatest story I have ever read or seen ever.

I've been reading Toriko for a while, I'm about 50 or so chapters in and it seems a bit too slow for me. Hopefully it gets better, it does have a lot of potential.

I think the One Piece is probably the best shonen ever made (that I've read so far at least). I also think its much bettter than Rurouni Kenshin which I didn't like that much. RuroKen was a great series but it just had a lot of things that I don't like personally and it violated and abused a lot of tropes and cliches. It is still one of the best shonen tho.

I also think Luffy is one of the best shonen protagonists. He might become one the best ever by the end of OP.


p-lou said:


> *hxh is boring as fuck*bleach is dumb, but harmless and not worth the anger people seem to have for it
> inuyasha ain't that bad
> johan is a rip off not an opinion



Da fuck?


Stunna said:


> The Skypiea Arc of One Piece was not too long, and isn't comparable to the Namek Saga.



Its not and who the hell compared it to the Namek Saga?


Samavarti said:


> *One Piece aside from like two arcs is a really average shounen*.
> Urasawa has issues with his endings.



 Wtf no, just no 


Jay Kay said:


> *And I never understood why people don't like the Davy Back Fight*.



Bcuz its fuckin filler thats why.


x5exotic said:


> 1- Yu Yu Hakusho sucks
> 2- Speedwagon is gay
> 3- *Enies Lobby is one of the worst arcs in the history of manga*4- Toriko is retarded and worse than fairy tail
> 5- *Berserk is at the same level as Bleach*



Kill yourself


Killerqueen said:


> - *One pIece is overrated*
> - Level E was one of the best manga Togashi ever made
> - something about Mahaw turn me off



I think OP is overrated in Japan but it is severely underrated in America (western fandoms). All ppl ever do is talk shit about it, it doesn't get nearly as much praise as it deserves.


White Hawk said:


> Oh and that the election arc of HxH it's easily the best one of the series.



This is actually true. Its probably the third best arc in the series.


Danchou said:


> One Piece is very formulaic.


It's still a great series though and Oda does subvert a lot of tropes and expectations with it regardless.


Torafarugo Ro said:


> One Piece will never be as good as it once was. I feel like Oda forgot how to write a good story.



 no


Boshi said:


> The art in one piece sucks.


The art in OP was very "cartoonish" in the beginning but its been very good recently. I always liked its art style anyway and I think Oda is very creative with it.


----------



## Deathbringerpt (Apr 8, 2013)

^

It's a thread specifically created for people to just say what's on their minds, despite fanbases and popular opinions, stop menstruating all over the fucking place. Jesus.


----------



## Stannis (Apr 8, 2013)

tupadre97 said:


> The art in OP was very "cartoonish" in the beginning but its been very good recently. I always liked its art style anyway and I think Oda is very creative with it.



No. And I didn't ask for your opinion.


----------



## tupadre97 (Apr 8, 2013)

Boshi said:


> No. And I didn't ask for your opinion.



I don't give a darn, this is a forum. I can post whatever the hell I want.


----------



## Deathbringerpt (Apr 8, 2013)

tupadre97 said:


> I'm a big fucking baby and I can't stand subjective opinions. I can post whatever the hell I want.



This is an internet forum, alright.


----------



## Stannis (Apr 8, 2013)

OH FUCK YEAH


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Apr 8, 2013)

Kirito said:


> thread is about sharing controversial opinions. if you have nothing constructive to say for me talking shit about your favorite manga then don't quote bro. somehow down the line it became about alibaba regaining his kingdom instead of aladdin's adventures trying to find ugo's head. i didn't sign up for magi to see another underdog battle manga. it was a shame too, since when it first came out in the scans i was already reading it. everyone was complaining about when aladdin flew all the way to that nomad encampment and started solving shit. everyone said it was boring but i liked it.



So Aladdin helping his friend Alibaba one of the main characters save his kingdom is a bad way for the story to go? I guess Aladdin should of just said fuck you alibaba I got more adventuring to do. 

Magi is not the Aladdin's great adventure story sorry if you thought that was the case, the manga is bigger then what Aladdin does, and Aladdin taking a back seat to another character for one arc is hardly a bad thing.

It's something one piece needs to do and something naruto and bleach should of done in the past. To clarify a manga not tunnel visioning on the main character is a good thing, one piece currently being a great example its been the luffy show for the last 200+ chapters.

Finally magi is not one thing, it has adventures, it has wars, political and moral issues Ect. But it's not a underdog battle manga not that I see what's the problem with that anyway. A good manga is a good manga.


----------



## Aldric (Apr 8, 2013)

Mizura said:


> Twilight Sparkle is a much better leader than the main character of most of the popular Shounen manga right now:
> 
> Can resolve problems in ways other than beating sh*t up (though she can do that too)
> Relies on careful research to find solutions, preferably non-violent
> ...



Wow really, you'd trust that character with paperwork?

I agree, what an awesome character

If you can trust them with paperwork then holy shit what a good character, where has a character you can trust with paperwork been all my life


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Apr 8, 2013)

Twilight sparkle that's a interesting name lol.


----------



## Basilikos (Apr 8, 2013)

I just thought of yet another potentially controversial opinion I have. 

While Rurouni Kenshin and Saint Seiya are both decent series, they aren't as good as their fanbases often make them out to be.

RK's main characters, fights, and story simply do not wow me like they used to. 

As for SS, it has some awesome ideas, cool characters, and creative use of Greek mythology. The shortcoming is that the series has characters constantly winning fights via the asspull of lol-just-burn-your-cosmos. When in reality, they should have no reasonable chances of defeating their opponents. The series was kind of a sausage fest too--there were hardly any notable female characters.


----------



## Mihawk (Apr 8, 2013)

Bleach has bland art.

They all have the same fucking bishie faces.

Shit lacks variety.


----------



## tupadre97 (Apr 8, 2013)

Deathbringerpt said:


> This is an internet forum, alright.



So apparently giving my opinion on what u were saying means I can't stand subjective opinions. Sure whatever u say


----------



## Imagine (Apr 8, 2013)

Boshi said:


> OH FUCK YEAH


Monochrome wont save you now boy.


----------



## Kirito (Apr 8, 2013)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> So Aladdin helping his friend Alibaba one of the main characters save his kingdom is a bad way for the story to go? I guess Aladdin should of just said fuck you alibaba I got more adventuring to do.
> 
> Magi is not the Aladdin's great adventure story sorry if you thought that was the case, the manga is bigger then what Aladdin does, and Aladdin taking a back seat to another character for one arc is hardly a bad thing.
> 
> ...



open your eyes bandwagoner.

aladdin was the protagonist for quite a while in the beginning before alibaba came with his crusade of becoming stronger to reclaim his kingdom. anyway that's not the point, stop twisting things in your rage lmao.

i was expecting magi to be quite one piece-like. adventures first before battles. now the adventures are a sideshow compared to gladiators and shit. one piece at least was consistent in making luffy the main character. there was no zoro show, it was the luffy show throughout. same goes for bleach. can't say the same for naruto since it was the sasuke show for quite some time.

in the beginning alibaba was quite the interesting character who developed into a great leader in fog troupe, then came sinbad and liked him too. didn't mind too much when he introduced imbuing rukh into weapons, but what i DID mind was when everyone and their mom started going bankai. like the djinn was yesterdays news. glowing swords are fine, which meant that people would still rely primarily on their weapons, but when the swords transform and shit then that's where i have a problem. i didn't read magi for it to become bleach, which is why i dropped it. to hell with complicated political stances and moral ambiguity, i already have lots of that in other mangas without transforming swords or headless genies.

anyway don't worry your overreacting little head i didn't say magi was shit or anything. i told a friend that when aladdin became the focus once more he should tell me so i can catch up, simple.


----------



## Aldric (Apr 8, 2013)

Magi isn't an adventure manga

If anything Magi is a well written version of Naruto


----------



## Byrd (Apr 8, 2013)

>People coming listing their opinions... other people criticize them for it due to their lack of understanding that others have different taste

lolNF


----------



## Torpedo Titz (Apr 8, 2013)

Byrdman said:


> >People coming listing their opinions... other people criticize them for it due to their lack of understanding that others have different taste
> 
> lolNF



>Implying NF would remotely resemble something interesting if everyone aptly understood and respected subjectivity.

All my laughs, fella.


----------



## Aldric (Apr 8, 2013)

Byrdman said:


> >People coming listing their opinions... other people criticize them for it due to their lack of understanding that others have different taste
> 
> lolNF



If you don't want your opinion to be challenged then stick to tumblr or livejournal or facebook or any of the other dozens of outlets available online for your narcissistic wanking

This is a forum, not your personal diary


----------



## Powerful Lord (Apr 8, 2013)

Aldric said:


> Magi isn't an adventure manga
> 
> If anything Magi is a well written version of Naruto



When Naruto was in chapter 179 it was still well written and dare i say better than Magi.



Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> *It's something one piece needs to do *and something naruto and bleach should of done in the past. To clarify a manga not tunnel visioning on the main character is a good thing, one piece currently being a great example its been the luffy show for the last 200+ chapters.



That's one of the things i'm afraid about One Piece, until now Luffy has basically been the one to defeat the final boss, it has made sence so far, but other characters definitelly deserve an oportunity to shine too, i would love to see Zoro or Sanji get a final boss fight, and with the Yonko closing in Luffy better not defeat each one of them alone. 

The only Yonko he should get all for himself is Blackbeard, i was a bit disapointed when it turned out the Straw hats would end up fighting the war in fishman saga, i was hoping Jinbei would get Hody.


----------



## SternRitter (Apr 8, 2013)

Doflαmingo said:


> Bleach has bland art.
> 
> They all have the same fucking bishie faces.
> 
> Shit lacks variety.



Just like odas females. 95% of which use the exact same template and face. Only thing different are hairstyles.


----------



## Byrd (Apr 8, 2013)

Aldric said:


> If you don't want your opinion to be challenged then stick to tumblr or livejournal or facebook or any of the other dozens of outlets available online for your narcissistic wanking
> 
> This is a forum, not your personal diary



I don't actually care enough to give a darn about what anyone thinks around here... Just amazes me how people cannot take criticism about a particular work in a thread that is open to list one's opinions

at the end of the day... its all an opinion or viewpoint..

I have different opinions that some that are listed here... yet I'm not gonna criticize them because they have a different viewpoint than my own


----------



## Powerful Lord (Apr 8, 2013)

SternRitter said:


> Just like odas females. 95% of which use the exact same template and face. Only thing different are hairstyles.



Yep, the young ones are allways exagerated and look the same, while his old women are all unbelievably ugly. In least he can write them well.


----------



## Aldric (Apr 8, 2013)

Powerful Lord said:


> When Naruto was in chapter 179 it was still well written and dare i say better than Magi.



No Naruto started getting average after the chuunin exam arc and when the first rescue Sasuke arc reared its ugly head it was already unsalvageable


----------



## Gain (Apr 8, 2013)

Mizura said:


> Twilight Sparkle is a much better leader than the main character of most of the popular Shounen manga right now:
> 
> Can resolve problems in ways other than beating sh*t up (though she can do that too)
> Relies on careful research to find solutions, preferably non-violent
> ...



[YOUTUBE]RrNCFPtYJtI[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Stilzkin (Apr 8, 2013)

> i was expecting magi to be quite one piece-like. adventures first before battles. now the adventures are a sideshow compared to gladiators and shit. one piece at least was consistent in making luffy the main character. there was no zoro show, it was the luffy show throughout. same goes for bleach. can't say the same for naruto since it was the sasuke show for quite some time.



Not reading what happened pages ago in this argument but...

Magi isn't One Piece. It follows the style of something like FMA much more closely, with an expanded environment. That is to say that Magi doesn't have arcs like OP does, they feel much less closed and more like the next thing to happen in the story. Its not adventure and its not exactly a battle manga. 

What's wrong with a series having two leads? This isn't a new literary invention by the author of magi. 



> but when the swords transform and shit then that's where i have a problem



Seems like you had an idea of what the series should be like and dislike that it didn't turn out like that.




> No Naruto started getting average after the chuunin exam arc and when the first rescue Sasuke arc reared its ugly head it was already unsalvageable



No, it was still salvageable at that point. Still seemed like the same series. At some point after the timeskip in Naruto Kishi forgot where the story was supposed to be going. Sasuke arc might have been the first step in that direction but it would have been easy to step of the hole.

I think Naruto's villains are to blame for the series downfall. They all last too long. There was no reason to turn 3/4 of the series into Naruto versus the Akatsuki.


----------



## Powerful Lord (Apr 8, 2013)

Aldric said:


> No Naruto started getting average after the chuunin exam arc and when the first rescue Sasuke arc reared its ugly head it was already unsalvageable



How? Konoha Invasion was good, when i look back at Tsunade Arc it was amazing and the Sasuke Retrieval arc was amazing too, we had the rookies get their fair share of screen time and 4 different battles featuring different battle styles. The end of Part I left a lot of potencial too and the foreshadowing of the Akatsuki left us wanting more.

Part 1 still had some problems, like Sakura being a bitch and Sasuke a emo jackass, however it had potencial to grow and improve from those mistakes, like making Sakura grow the fuck up and Sasuke less boring, and more of a mapulator.

Right now Magi suffesrs from some problems too, however it's still good, but not as much as Naruto was back in the day. Had Part II not pissed on world building or character development and it would be today one of the best shonens.


----------



## OS (Apr 8, 2013)

Byrdman said:


> I don't actually care enough to give a darn about what anyone thinks around here... Just amazes me how people cannot take criticism about a particular work in a thread that is open to list one's opinions
> 
> at the end of the day... its all an opinion or viewpoint..
> 
> I have different opinions that some that are listed here... yet I'm not gonna criticize them because they have a different viewpoint than my own



It's actually better to criticize opinions. Or else it would be completely boring and have no real discussion. Hating on someones opinion because you shouldn't criticize an opinion is basically denying someone to have an opinion on someone else's opinion.


----------



## The World (Apr 8, 2013)

Stilzkin said:


> I think Naruto's villains are to blame for the series downfall. They all last too long. There was no reason to turn 3/4 of the series into Naruto versus the Akatsuki.



lol you are so wrong on that. If anything more emphasis should have been placed on Akatsuki. Giving them much richer personalities and backstories without the sob stories for some.



Aldric said:


> If anything Magi is a well written version of Naruto



Noooooope


----------



## Stilzkin (Apr 8, 2013)

The World said:


> lol you are so wrong on that. If anything more emphasis should have been placed on Akatsuki. Giving them much richer personalities and backstories without the sob stories for some.



You could go the route of giving each Akatsuki member their own arc but I'm thinking that at the end of the day the Akatsuki are all working for one goal.

The series felt expansive at the start. Multiple countries, levels, and abilities. Limiting the series solely to the pursuit of stopping one group of bad guys in a world that could have much more occurring is not a good idea.

You could have them in the background and hype them up for their own arc and give other ideas some time.


Just think about how Naruto going from a chuunin exam to fighting the world's most wanted criminals cut out so much that could have occurred in between.


----------



## Freddy Mercury (Apr 8, 2013)

Imagine said:


> - ToG: Good series, but overrated.



Negged.

Not even joking this time.


----------



## Aldric (Apr 8, 2013)

The World said:


> Noooooope



Yes

You find some of the same themes, character archetypes and dynamics except the execution is infinitely better


----------



## Stilzkin (Apr 8, 2013)

Aldric said:


> Yes
> 
> You find some of the same themes, character archetypes and dynamics except the execution is infinitely better



If you are taking about what Naruto became rather than what it was when it was good maybe.

Naruto was like a faster, more pop (if you can understand what I mean), version of HxH.


----------



## Aldric (Apr 8, 2013)

Stilzkin said:


> If you are taking about what Naruto became rather than what it was when it was good maybe.
> 
> Naruto was like a faster, more pop (if you can understand what I mean), version of HxH.



Yeah obviously I'm not talking about early Naruto since Magi isn't an underdog story 

But I feel like it does what Naruto miserably failed to do as it developped, that portrayal of a world in turmoil with moral dilemmas, credible, likable characters and intelligently treated themes like war, revenge, destiny etc


----------



## B Rabbit (Apr 8, 2013)

It's a forum, if you don't like your opinion being challenged you didn't have much of an opinion in the first place. 

I love when my opinion get's challenged, but out of respect I didn't challenge most of your guys opinions, but honestly some of your guys opinions are just opinions because the series are popular. But I'll say about half you guys don't even have that opinion.

I don't find Magi appealing, and think people only like it because they refuse to like the other shounens that are out for being popular. a year from now people will like a new shounen that's not as popular and start bashing Magi for being popular even though the story really hasn't changed.


----------



## steveht93 (Apr 8, 2013)

-even though I am a fan of fate zero and enjoyed a single route of Fate stay night,I find that most of the things created by type-moon are overrated.

-dragon ball Z is a good battle manga with good characters but the story leaves something to be desired. 

-medaka box is basicly a form of Japanese toilet paper. 

-fans service in manga is really bad and not worth the wasted panels(negima,fairy tail) 

-I feel that HST manga's sometime get bashed because they are mainstream and it is "cool to hate mainstream". Yes sometimes they are not very good but the overall package is very solid. Better than a lot of shit out there.


----------



## Byrd (Apr 8, 2013)

Original Sin said:


> It's actually better to criticize opinions. Or else it would be completely boring and have no real discussion. Hating on someones opinion because you shouldn't criticize an opinion is basically denying someone to have an opinion on someone else's opinion.



If this was your intent of this thread then that is fine.. 



> It's a forum, if you don't like your opinion being challenged you didn't have much of an opinion in the first place.
> 
> I love when my opinion get's challenged, but out of respect I didn't challenge most of your guys opinions, but honestly some of your guys opinions are just opinions because the series are popular. But I'll say about half you guys don't even have that opinion.



Its not so much as having my opinion challenged.. I just didn't think this would turn into a debate thread..



> I feel that HST manga's sometime get bashed because they are mainstream and it is "cool to hate mainstream". Yes sometimes they are not very good but the overall package is very solid. Better than a lot of shit out there.



Yep, the packages of these works are very solid... although I do feel there are a lot more works that are extremely well done aka better yet they haven't had the spotlight as much as these mangas overall

I personally think Jump is doing a fantastic job with all the mangas (except Hungry Joker)


----------



## Kirito (Apr 8, 2013)

Aldric said:


> Magi isn't an adventure manga
> 
> If anything Magi is a well written version of Naruto



it was the first 60 chapters. then it turned into some battle manga.



Stilzkin said:


> Not reading what happened pages ago in this argument but...
> 
> Magi isn't One Piece. It follows the style of something like FMA much more closely, with an expanded environment. That is to say that Magi doesn't have arcs like OP does, they feel much less closed and more like the next thing to happen in the story. Its not adventure and its not exactly a battle manga.
> 
> ...





because i did. before sinbad came i liked the dungeoning and the way aladdin used his powers like aang, exhaust every means of communication before using the big guns. you can also see that i was somewhat right, that it turned into some levelup manga with djinn equip and rukh shit.

there's nothing wrong with a series having two leads, its just that i disliked alibaba from the day he discovered he could use rukh too and made his dagger bigger.

why yall jumping down my throat anyway? thread reads controversial opinions and i notice you haven't jumped on Mizura yet. so i dislike magi for having a powerup system, big whoop. i aint shitting on the series in any way.


----------



## OS (Apr 8, 2013)

And Mizura is a brony too.


----------



## Stilzkin (Apr 8, 2013)

> that it turned into some levelup manga with djinn equip and rukh shit.



What does this even mean?

There has barely been any fights and the characters have gotten stronger like once or twice in the last two hundred chapters.


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Apr 8, 2013)

Kirito said:


> open your eyes bandwagoner.



I will try. 

But for starters whats with you and Battle Manga. No jokes but it seems you are butt hurt over the fact that to you magi has turned into a Battle manga, and your always going on about Battle manga this, battle manga that over in the OL ect ect. I take it battle manga's are your least favorite type of shonen? 



> *aladdin was the protagonist for quite a while in the beginning before alibaba came with his crusade of becoming stronger to reclaim his kingdom. *anyway that's not the point, stop twisting things in your rage lmao.



Not really Alibaba was quickly introduced into the manga, and the first adventure(dungeon) had a large focus on him as well. 

There is no rage here. 



> is was expecting magi to be quite one piece-like. adventures first before battle.



Im sorry your feelings were hurt because the author did not take the manga in the direction you wanted. 

But unless said direction was badly executed i see no reason to complain about it. 



> now the adventures are a sideshow compared to gladiators and shit.



Not sure what your talking about but Alibaba and the gladiators was only a couple chapters then it switched over to Aladdin who has been the focus for the last 20+ chapters, and his dealing with the magicians. 



> *one piece at least was consistent in making luffy* the main character.there was no zoro show, it was the luffy show throughout. same goes for bleach. can't say the same for naruto since it was the sasuke show for quite some time.



Yea which is a bad thing(imo), but Magi was not portrayed to be the Aladdin show so such a thinking that a large focus would just be aladdin well thats your on fault. Which regardless Aladdin is the main focus so a large part of the stuff does involve him, even in alibabas arc he was a huge part. 

But in actuality i am wrong as it is the Aladdin show which is quite annoying to me and quite a few others. 


> in the beginning alibaba was quite the interesting character who developed into a great leader in fog troupe, then came sinbad and liked him too. didn't mind too much when he introduced imbuing rukh into weapons, but what i DID mind was when everyone and their mom started going bankai. like the djinn was yesterdays news. glowing swords are fine, which meant that people would still rely primarily on their weapons, but when the swords transform and shit then that's where i have a problem. i didn't read magi for it to become bleach, which is why i dropped it.



Well Magi is battle centric so if you have a problem with the Battle system then yea you should drop it. I personally like the dijnn and for that matter Bankai as well. 

Although honestly you should of seen crazy power ups coming, you did not think Alibaba would be fighting with just a little fire sword for most of the manga did you with all the crazy stuff Aladdin could do just a matter of time before Alibaba and Mor get power-ups to match-up. 

Also just for clarification the dijnn are not yesterdays news, the bankai as you call it is the user taking on a form similar to there perspective dijnn, and of course gaining more control over said dijnns powers. Its not a new power all together, just the next step from the basic level of Alibaba just sending out little fire slashes.  



> to hell with complicated political stances and moral ambiguity, i already have lots of that in other mangas without transforming swords or headless genies.



Again if you have a problem with the battle system i suggest you do not read it again as its only going to get worse for you. 


> anyway don't worry your overreacting little head i didn't say magi was shit or anything. i told a friend that when aladdin became the focus once more he should tell me so i can catch up, simple.



Not overreacting this is a forum so i responded to you post, nor did i say you said magi was shit/bad.

Aladdin is the focus like he has been for 80 percent of the manga.


----------



## steveht93 (Apr 8, 2013)

Kirito said:


> it was the first 60 chapters. then it turned into some battle manga.



It's still an adventure manga with some fights in it,It's not as bad as you make it seem honestly. The last fight we have seen from alladin's gang was several chapters back in the zagan dungeon.(yes,they go dungeon diving again) 

Last time alibaba fought for real was against the big ape in the colosseum and no form of power ups was involved. Alladin is expected to have plenty of fights this chapter since its a war arc. 




> because i did. before sinbad came i liked the dungeoning and the way aladdin used his powers like aang, exhaust every means of communication before using the big guns.



He still acts like a pacifist even now. 




> you can also see that i was somewhat right, that it turned into some levelup manga with djinn equip and rukh shit.



This doesn't mean that there is a fault in the manga. I think you don't like battles in general. Which is okay,but magi is an adventure shounen. Characters are expected to fight. You should Thank god that characters are not overpowered (except alladin,but he is basicly god in human form).





> there's nothing wrong with a series having two leads, its just that i disliked alibaba from the day he discovered he could use rukh too and made his dagger bigger.
> 
> why yall jumping down me



You want alibaba to become irrelevant? Alibaba gained some powers yes,but he is not as strong as you make of him.


----------



## Black Leg Sanji (Apr 8, 2013)

- Dropped OP when the Ace flashback began because i couldnt care less for him

- Bastards! plot is weak, still a fun read though


----------



## steveht93 (Apr 8, 2013)

Black Leg Sanji said:


> - Dropped OP when the Ace flashback began because i couldnt care less for him



You could have easily waited until the flash back is over and continue reading after wards. I think there is more to it than ace's flash back


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Apr 8, 2013)

Black Leg Sanji said:


> - Dropped OP when the Ace flashback began because i couldnt care less for him
> 
> - Bastards! plot is weak, still a fun read though



You don't like Ace....

Well the flashback was not just about Ace it was also Luffys and Sabos flashback as well.

Honestly i would say Sabo was the most important part of the flashback.


----------



## steveht93 (Apr 8, 2013)

Byrdman said:


> I personally think Jump is doing a fantastic job with all the mangas (except Hungry Joker)



What's a hungry joker,precious? Tell us!


----------



## OS (Apr 8, 2013)

Red from PA is overrated


----------



## Byrd (Apr 8, 2013)

steveht93 said:


> What's a hungry joker,precious? Tell us!



Oooku

Its been boring since it started


----------



## Kirito (Apr 8, 2013)

i expected magi to have some unholy love from its fans but not to this extent it's like i called the series shit and placed it along the likes of naruto and bleach or something :S

i'll just leave this here for the hungry wolves to devour:

- i'm not against the multiple heroes in a series thing, i'm against what happened after alibaba got his in the spotlight, which is the whole rukh thing.

- i don't like that trust was never an issue, or at least in the chapters that i read. maybe they already went over that, but afaik i don't so leave me alone.

- magi didn't seem that battle centric in the first chapters. it was just aladdin rescuing and shit, getting some in the process. it was about alibaba being all brainy and leading the fog troupe, dungeoning to get some extra cash while being boss. it was morgiana struggling with trust issues and how to use her newfound freedom. then came sinbad's "you know alibaba you can use magical powers and make your sword bigger too, so that you can save your kingdom". and i read it, don't exactly remember when i dropped it, but i remember alibaba being a boss versus that fat king. i loved it, but somewhere along the line i fell out of love.

- magi is a good manga. i just said i didn't like the battle aspect of it much. maybe one of these days i'll get back to reading it, just not now. i watched the anime and liked it too, but i haven't finished it yet.


----------



## Stilzkin (Apr 8, 2013)

> - magi didn't seem that battle centric in the first chapters. it was just aladdin rescuing and shit, getting some in the process. it was about alibaba being all brainy and leading the fog troupe, dungeoning to get some extra cash while being boss. it was morgiana struggling with trust issues and how to use her newfound freedom. then came sinbad's "you know alibaba you can use magical powers and make your sword bigger too, so that you can save your kingdom". and i read it, don't exactly remember when i dropped it, but i remember alibaba being a boss versus that fat king. i loved it, but somewhere along the line i fell out of love.



When did it become battle centric?

Where have all these match ups been this arc? The barely a fight between Aladdin and Mu? Most chapters have been all talk.


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (Apr 8, 2013)

nice thread you got here OS




Mizura said:


> Twilight Sparkle is a much better leader than the main character of most of the popular Shounen manga right now:




it's true, too 




- anyway, probably atm I'd say Toriko > One Piece = Naruto > Bleach enjoyment-wise .. but the gaps between them are not nearly as big as some people say .. I would even put all 4 in the same ballpark/tier, just from high to low .. OP pre-skip > OP post-skip too, easily .. and if Toriko hits 500+ chapters like the HST then I think it will suffer the same decline .. for that not to happen it needs to end before it drags on .. finally, neither of the 4 are close to being the best anything

- but HST is not *that* bad

- I liked Highschool of the Dead and would watch a second season 

- I gave both Code Geass seasons a 10/10 on MAL  (is this thread for anime as well ?)

- Fairy Tail is fine as a guilty pleasure


----------



## Kirito (Apr 8, 2013)

Stilzkin said:


> When did it become battle centric?
> 
> Where have all these match ups been this arc? The barely a fight between Aladdin and Mu? Most chapters have been all talk.





> Well Magi is battle centric so if you have a problem with the Battle system then yea you should drop it. I personally like the dijnn and for that matter Bankai as well.



doflamingo said it was.

anyway i never said anything about the battles so you can argue with him about that.


----------



## OS (Apr 8, 2013)

Fluttershy said:


> nice thread you got here OS


----------



## steveht93 (Apr 8, 2013)

Byrdman said:


> Oooku
> 
> Its been boring since it started



Yeah,it seems that it's not worth wasting my time. Thought the hole "humanity going extinct" is interesting.


----------



## Stilzkin (Apr 8, 2013)

> that it turned into some levelup manga with djinn equip and rukh shit.





> doflamingo said it was.
> 
> anyway i never said anything about the battles so you can argue with him about that.




Then why are you complaining about it turning into one? There is neither a huge amount of power ups, such as Toriko or DB, nor is the plot centered around fighting.


----------



## B Rabbit (Apr 8, 2013)

The first post I see from Fluttershy that puts him above the average poster in the thread. 

Going to rep him.


----------



## Kirito (Apr 8, 2013)

Stilzkin said:


> Then why are you complaining about it turning into one? There is neither a huge amount of power ups, such as Toriko or DB, nor is the plot centered around fighting.



because it felt like it at the time. im looking at the latest chapter right now and there's "black djinns" so unless they're into welfare or eat govamint cheese they're magi's pacifistas right? feels like fighting to me.

anyway why you so hung up on me like this? i ain't bothering anyone smack talking my favorite manga or anything, its their own opinion.


----------



## B Rabbit (Apr 8, 2013)

I can almost gurantee if Naruto and One Piece weren't as popular, you guys would love it. 

I'm not saying all of us, but most of you guys.  

Magi sucks ass, In a year it won't have as much hype.


----------



## Grimm6Jack (Apr 8, 2013)

-Fairy Tail's fanservice is not that great. Awesome art IMO but the fanservice itself is not top-tier as many people think it is.
-I understand that One Piece is better than Bleach but I still like Bleach way better than One Piece.
-Highschool of the Dead is my favourite _EDIT:_ monthly manga.
-Most of the Bleach and Naruto hate is uncalled for. Most people simply happen to not be able to interpretate both these mangas well. 
-I bash Fairy Tail so much, by far the manga I bash the most, yet it's the 2nd manga I anticipate the most after Bleach(weekly manga). 
-Grimmjow is the best character in Shounen/Manga/Anime_(whatever)_ history. I don't find any other character to be nearly as appealing as he is... Yep there I said it. 
-Magi is overrated as fuck.
-One Piece aside from Alabasta, Skypea and Ennies Lobby/W7 is a pretty average manga.


----------



## OS (Apr 8, 2013)

Grimm6Jack said:


> -Fairy Tail's fanservice is not that great. Awesome art IMO but the fanservice itself is not top-tier as many people think it is.
> -I understand that One Piece is better than Bleach but I still like Bleach way better than One Piece.
> -Highschool of the Dead is my favourite manga.
> -Most of the Bleach and Naruto hate is uncalled for. Most people simply happen to not be able to interpretate both these mangas well.
> ...



Gee, i didn't notice.

Also,
>rating fanservice.


----------



## B Rabbit (Apr 8, 2013)

Black Leg Sanji said:


> - Dropped OP when the Ace flashback began because i couldnt care less for him
> 
> - Bastards! plot is weak, still a fun read though



It was more about Luffy, and introduced Sabo, showed you how Dragon started his revelutionary army, but it's cool to drop it for Ace. I didn't like Ace either. 

I wouldn't read One Piece yet. Fishman Island sucked. Punk Was good though.


----------



## JoJo (Apr 8, 2013)

> Grimmjow is the best character in Shounen/Manga/Anime(whatever) history. I don't find any other character to be nearly as appealing as he is... Yep there I said it.


Vegeta tends to disagree. 

/Biggest DB fan boy ever. 

Not sure if I said this, IMO magi is overrated by a lot of people, dropped in the 80's.


----------



## JoJo (Apr 8, 2013)

Can we stop addressing peoples opinions here with our own opinions? This thread is a place where people can state there opinion without getting bashed or have another opinion shoved down there throat.


----------



## OS (Apr 8, 2013)

JoJo said:


> Can we stop addressing peoples opinions here with our own opinions? *This thread is a place where people can state there opinion without getting bashed or have another opinion shoved down there throat.*



I'm the OP.

No it's not. If people just say their opinion and no one responds it would be a boring thread.


----------



## B Rabbit (Apr 8, 2013)

JoJo will hate me, but I don't think I ever liked Vegeta.   

I like him in games, but I was always a Piccolo fan, and thought it was lame how he was worthless after Cell. 

I also didn't like the Cell Saga, and though Majin Boo was better.


----------



## Byrd (Apr 8, 2013)

> -Fairy Tail's fanservice is not that great. Awesome art IMO but the fanservice itself is not top-tier as many people think it is.
> -I understand that One Piece is better than Bleach but I still like Bleach way better than One Piece.
> -Highschool of the Dead is my favourite manga.
> -Most of the Bleach and Naruto hate is uncalled for. Most people simply happen to not be able to interpretate both these mangas well.
> ...



Favorite manga Highschool of the Dead... thinks Grimmjow is the best shounen character

That matches perfectly


----------



## OtherGalaxy (Apr 8, 2013)

Torafarugo Ro said:


> I can almost gurantee if Naruto and One Piece weren't as popular, you guys would love it.
> 
> I'm not saying all of us, but most of you guys.



Maybe some people, but I got into it when it (Naruto in this case) was popular and dropped it while it was still so. Sasuke Rescue Arc's ending was pretty much the beginning of the end for me.

On DBZ, never was a big Goku fan. Piccolo or Vegeta any day over him.


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Apr 8, 2013)

OtherGalaxy said:


> Maybe some people, but I got into it when it (Naruto in this case) was popular and dropped it while it was still so. Sasuke Rescue Arc's ending was pretty much the beginning of the end for me.
> 
> On DBZ, never was a big Goku fan. *Piccolo or Vegeta* any day over him.



This guy knows what it is reps lol.

On that topic i like Kid Goku better then Adult Goku, i like them both so no one better start hating on me.



Fluttershy said:


> nice thread you got here OS
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Code geass is my shit, reps for you to lol.

Also im not sure liking High school of the dead is a controversial opnion, but that being said i dont know a lot of people who have read/watched it

For me its a nice fun surprise when a new chapter comes out which is kind of what attracts me to monthly manga your not really expecting it but when it comes out its hell yea. Anyway I look forward to its return.


----------



## B Rabbit (Apr 8, 2013)

Like I said not all of us, but some of us. 

I liked Gohan more than Goku. However I loved Kidd Goku more than anything. 

Roshi I think is my favorite, hell my favorite arc was the training, and the 21st Budokai.


----------



## Imagine (Apr 8, 2013)

Freddie Mercury said:


> Negged.
> 
> Not even joking this time.


----------



## Byrd (Apr 8, 2013)

DB was better than DBZ


----------



## JoJo (Apr 8, 2013)

Torafarugo Ro said:


> JoJo will hate me, but I don't think I ever liked Vegeta.
> 
> I like him in games, but I was always a Piccolo fan, and thought it was lame how he was worthless after Cell.
> 
> I also didn't like the Cell Saga, and though Majin Boo was better.



Did you guys know Tora is homosexual?


----------



## JoJo (Apr 8, 2013)

Tina from the Toriko anime is the worst character ever. She is pretty fucking annoying and has no reason to be jammed into every episode.


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Apr 8, 2013)

Grimm6Jack said:


> -Fairy Tail's fanservice is not that great. Awesome art IMO but the fanservice itself is not top-tier as many people think it is.
> -I understand that One Piece is better than Bleach but I still like Bleach way better than One Piece.
> -*Highschool of the Dead is my favourite manga.*
> -Most of the Bleach and Naruto hate is uncalled for. Most people simply happen to not be able to interpretate both these mangas well.
> ...





I must here your explanation of why you like High school of the dead so much. I assume its not because of the fan service but perhaps it is. If So read HSDK it has fanservice and a story, and epic fights, no zombies though sadly.


----------



## Intus Legere (Apr 8, 2013)

I don't think Naruto was unsalvageable at any point before Part II.

I'd say Wave Country arc was very good, a really promising start for a manga. Chuunin exams was solid, except for the Gaara vs. Naruto part, which I'm not a big fan of. The rest of Part I was decent, although the very end was underwhelming, with characters that should have died then (Neji and Chouji) being deprived of their respectable death scenes.

Kakashi Gaiden was very much enjoyable.

As I see it, Naruto's quality really declined with the start of Part II. And it kept going down, although Akatsuki was interesting for most part. The second Sasuke Rescue arc was bad, the Immortals arc could have been much better if not for the rushed end, and the introduction of Sai and Yamato was unnecessary, on hindsight. And then Sasuke was reintroduced.

And when Sasuke was introduced, everything that could be saved was beyond hope, and the manga was unsalvageable. At least this is how I feel.


----------



## B Rabbit (Apr 8, 2013)

JoJo said:


> Did you guys know Tora is homosexual?





Intus Legere said:


> I don't think Naruto was unsalvageable at any point before Part II.
> 
> I'd say Wave Country arc was very good, a really promising start for a manga. Chuunin exams was solid, except for the Gaara vs. Naruto part, which I'm not a big fan of. The rest of Part I was decent, although the very end was underwhelming, with characters that should have died then (Neji and Chouji) being deprived of their respectable death scenes.
> 
> ...



I agree with this.


----------



## Grimm6Jack (Apr 8, 2013)

You pick the two most subjective sentences huh?

You truly are amazing... In the wrong direction, but that's to be expected of you. That set really suits you.


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Apr 8, 2013)

JoJo said:


> *Tina *from the Toriko anime is the worst character ever. She is pretty fucking annoying and has no reason to be jammed into every episode.



She is the reason i don't watch the toriko anime. 



Grimm6Jack said:


> You pick the two most subjective sentences huh?
> 
> You truly are amazing... In the wrong direction, but that's to be expected of you. That set really suits you.



I pick those two as i already understand why you think so about the things you listed, and or don't care about the other things you listed.

And the fact those two i picked are the most ridiculous of your statements as im sure you yourself and others would agree. 

Thank you i think i might keep it for longer then two weeks.


----------



## OtherGalaxy (Apr 8, 2013)

Intus Legere said:


> I don't think Naruto was unsalvageable at any point before Part II.



Most people seem to agree with this


----------



## shade0180 (Apr 8, 2013)

Byrdman said:


> DB was better than DBZ



Agree with this I liked the training arc better than what most of DBZ showed.


----------



## Grimm6Jack (Apr 8, 2013)

Naruto was the best of the HST until part II began.


----------



## Mizura (Apr 8, 2013)

Aldric said:


> I agree, what an awesome character


Nah, I'm not necessarily saying that Twilight Sparkle is an awesome character. I'm just saying that she made me realize how childish and incompetent many Shounen protagonists are, especially considering what they're expected to become. In real life they'd be George W. Bush, or worse. It's fine if people like them just because they're strong, they can be a professional sports athlete and engage in activism, but as a leader? Nah, they'd run the economy into the ground and start needless wars.

Twilight Sparkle's handling of the situation in Winter Wrap-up, by contrast, was quite impressive (and this is only one of many examples. Twilight can use force when it comes to defending the village or her friends, but also has shown ingenious ways of resolving many issues peacefully). In Winter Wrap-up, even though she wasn't naturally skilled at those tasks herself, she was still able to figure out more efficient ways for -everybody- else to handle their tasks, thus completing the task successfully. Naruto, for example, would have made a whole bunch of bunshins and try to handle everything himself (probably badly), and everybody would be back to square 1 once he passed on, whereas Twilight's methods can be used for generations to come.

And as far as I can tell, she came up with the organization in a very short amount of time, since they were already running late. As a leader, I could see her making just about anything run in a more efficient manner. She's also been shown to be very skilled with facts and numbers, and instinctively research any new fact before taking action, so I wouldn't worry about her running the economy into the ground. Also, Twilight is always, always trying to improve herself. That's a very mature attitude to have.

But hey, this thread states "controversial," I'm willing to bet that many people here won't admit that the protagonist of their favourite series can't stack up to a purple pony.  

There are competent characters in average Shounen too, like Kakashi and Shikamaru from Naruto. For some reason they seem to be purposely saddled with a lack of initiative though, as though the author has to come up with other excuses for their inaction than "they're not cool enough to be the main character"? 



Original Sin said:


> And Mizura is a brony too.


I actually don't like the series That much. The fanwork is amazing though. But I judged Twilight Sparkly on purely objective measures. It's not hard to do better than protagonists who do nothing but charge in blindly and solve everything by beating things up. The more you think about it, the more kiddie it seems. 



> DB was better than DBZ


That's not controversy, that's the truth.


----------



## Grimm6Jack (Apr 8, 2013)

Well... Most people who are at least arround my age saw DBZ as the best shit ever, myself included, when we were kids that is. It indeed has some awesome brawl fights but other than that... I think DB was better as some people above stated, Goku and other characters had way greater development and IMO it was more interesting, I liked King Piccolo as a villain actually. Well, DBZ at least had Vegeta .


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Apr 8, 2013)

Grimm6Jack said:


> Naruto was the best of the HST until part II began.




*Spoiler*: __ 








One piece>Bleach>Naruto.

Come at me Nardo fans.


----------



## Imagine (Apr 8, 2013)

JoJo said:


> Tina from the Toriko anime is the worst character ever. She is pretty fucking annoying and has no reason to be jammed into every episode.


That's really a cold hard fact.


----------



## B Rabbit (Apr 8, 2013)

Why is Tina even in the anime?


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Apr 8, 2013)

Torafarugo Ro said:


> Why is Tina even in the anime?



Toriko needed more boobs.
(Which i don't disagree with)

And so tina was born.


----------



## shade0180 (Apr 8, 2013)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Toriko needed more boobs.
> (Which i don't disagree with)
> 
> And so tina was born.



Is she anime exclusive? Did she ever appear in the manga?


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Apr 8, 2013)

shade0180 said:


> Is she anime exclusive? Did she ever appear in the manga?



Anime exclusive.


----------



## Narutossss (Apr 8, 2013)

I've always liked the dub for hxh 99 and never understood why it's so hated.


----------



## shade0180 (Apr 8, 2013)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Anime exclusive.



 Komatsu replacement?  If ever.


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Apr 8, 2013)

shade0180 said:


> Komatsu replacement?  If ever.



Shes just a reporter whore(literately)

Aka just there for the boobs and to talk about whats going on.


----------



## shade0180 (Apr 8, 2013)

Are game topic allowed here? Out of all the Megaman/Rockman series I never liked the Megaman Zero series... I did like using Zero on some occasions in the X series but Taking over as a protagonist and leaving out Megaman didn't feel right for me.


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Apr 8, 2013)

Good old megaman.

I could never beat a single game.


----------



## OS (Apr 8, 2013)

shade0180 said:


> Are game topic allowed here? Out of all the Megaman/Rockman series I never liked the Megaman Zero series... I did like using Zero on some occasions in the X series but Taking over as a protagonist and leaving out Megaman didn't feel right for me.



That would be the library convo or the gaming department.


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Apr 8, 2013)

^Shut up Vi/Zed he can talk about whatever he wants this is a free forum. ck

Also Jax>Vi/Zed(I eat them alive).


----------



## OS (Apr 8, 2013)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> ^Shut up Vi/Zed he can talk about whatever he wants this is a free forum. ck
> 
> Also Jax>Vi/Zed(I eat them alive).



Mods say fuck you

And players with actual skill can say fuck you too. Jax is fun, but Zed and Vi beat him erryday.


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Apr 8, 2013)

Original Sin said:


> Mods say fuck you
> 
> And players with actual skill can say fuck you too. Jax is fun, but Zed and Vi beat him erryday.



Certain mods can fuck me yes. 

E+Q+W followed by R after you get out of Stun equals rape and you do shit of anything to me.

If you mean in Lane before lvl 6 you can win after lvl 6 comes its all skill, once i get trinity force you just die a painful death as a whack your head off with my lamp post.


----------



## Jagger (Apr 8, 2013)

I know you people will tear me apart and savage my body so badly no one will be able to recognize my corpse when taken to the medical detectives...

But I find both DB and DBZ overrated and I don't like them that mich.


----------



## JoJo (Apr 8, 2013)

Imagine said:


> That's really a cold hard fact.


I know man. Tina is just  


Torafarugo Ro said:


> Why is Tina even in the anime?


Honestly, I don't even know. 


Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Toriko needed more boobs.
> (Which i don't disagree with)
> 
> And so tina was born.


A reason why I like Toriko and DB is because it has no fan service in it. I don't wanna read a great Battle manga where they are shoving tits into my face every other panel. I want it to be a fighting manga that is popular because its good, not just cause it has hot girls in it.


----------



## OS (Apr 8, 2013)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Certain mods can fuck me yes.
> 
> E+Q+W followed by R after you get out of Stun equals rape and you do shit of anything to me.
> 
> If you mean in Lane before lvl 6 you can win after lvl 6 comes its all skill, once i get trinity force you just die a painful death as a whack your head off with my lamp post.



Because Zed clearly doesn't have an ult that helps one shot anyone that isn't tank and Vi clearly isn't built in a similar way to jax but with more CC. Oh wait they do/are


----------



## P-X 12 (Apr 8, 2013)

Hmm...

- I don't really like sports manga outside of HnI, and even that I barely follow.

-I didn't really like Gash Bell all that much (don't remember when I stopped).

-JJBA from what I'm seeing of it, may be> DB when I'm caught up (If it keeps up it's streak, that is).


----------



## shade0180 (Apr 8, 2013)

JoJo said:


> I know man. Tina is just
> 
> Honestly, I don't even know.
> 
> A reason why I like Toriko and *DB* is because it has *no fan service in it*. I don't wanna read a great Battle manga where they are shoving tits into my face every other panel. I want it to be a fighting manga that is popular because its good, not just cause it has hot girls in it.



Bulma is almost always half naked every other episode says hi.


----------



## Grimm6Jack (Apr 8, 2013)

JoJo said:


> Can we stop addressing peoples opinions here with our own opinions? *This thread is a place where people can state there opinion without getting bashed or have another opinion shoved down there throat.*



I thought the same .



Original Sin said:


> No it's not. If people just say their opinion and no one responds it would be a boring thread.



Ah so your objective with this thread was to see a shitstorm. Ok you got me.



Byrdman said:


> Favorite manga Highschool of the Dead...



To this guy^ and Doflamingo. I'm sorry, I forgot to add the word *monthly*.

My actual favourite manga tends to change from time to time. Like anyone else.
Currently I am linking Bleach. In the past I've hated it as well(FKT and Deicide works = worst arcs of the HST).
In the past I loved One Piece.
In the past I loved Naruto.
So on so forth...


----------



## P-X 12 (Apr 8, 2013)

Grimm6Jack said:


> I thought the same .
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Eh, I wouldn't call them the worst.

Not while the 4th grade Ninja War is on.


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Apr 8, 2013)

Original Sin said:


> Because Zed clearly doesn't have an ult that helps one shot anyone that isn't tank and Vi clearly isn't built in a similar way to jax but with more CC. Oh wait they do/are



Jax is naturally tanky+Ult+the fact that any smart Jax will save his stun/avoidance for when you ult means your ult is doing barley any damage to him. Definitely not killing him.

That and the fact lvl 6 Zed's ult is pretty bad(IMO) anyway as he has not built up his items that much and the damage percentage is to low. Now if we are talking late game well Jax eats Zed and precedes to eat the rest of your team unless you got malphite and his bitch ass-_-

In general yea Vi would be more helpful to the team but 1v1 she gets her big ass whacked. Jax is to tanky with his ult and the longer you fight him the more damage he does, and Vi does not have the burst to take him down soon enough.

Anyway off-topic one day i shall challenge you to a match and will show you the power of the Grand Master at Arms.


----------



## OS (Apr 8, 2013)

Grimm6Jack said:


> Ah so your objective with this thread was to see a shitstorm. Ok you got me.



I'm sorry, I didn't know people on the internet that you don't know irl could hurt your feelings by arguing against your opinion. Fuckin liberal.



> Jax is naturally tanky+Ult+the fact that any smart Jax will save his stun/avoidance for when you ult means your ult is doing barley any damage to him. Definitely not killing him.


 Fine you can wait, meanwhile I will use my high damage low cool down abilites with my fast regenerating energy and passive that wrecks your shit while you wait to stun. Also, Zed can farm better.



> That and the fact lvl 6 Zed's ult is pretty bad(IMO) anyway as he has not built up his items that much and the damage percentage is to low.


 Your Q's base damage is about 200 and you can do more with a clone.


> In general yea Vi would be more helpful to the team but 1v1 she gets her big ass whacked. Jax is to tanky with his ult and the longer you fight him the more damage he does, and Vi does not have the burst to take him down soon enough.
> 
> Anyway off-topic one day i shall challenge you to a match and will show you the power of the Grand Master at Arms.



Except with triforce she two shots adc's and apc's with her ult stun and passive armor shred along with her e and q that also give her a shield when she uses them. Did i forget to mention she is also tanky?

Get on muh level. And stop from here on. I will ask the lolthread though.


----------



## P-X 12 (Apr 8, 2013)

Oh, here's another one:

-Gaara and Kakashi are the only characters in Naruto that have been and stayed great characters, with Gaara getting the coveted award of "Best Character in Naruto" simply by virtue of his character development. Everyone else can go fuck themselves as far as I care.

EDIT: Also Anak>Androssi all day.


----------



## Sablés (Apr 8, 2013)

> I think Rak Wraithraiser is highly overrated



You truly are the origin of all evil.


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Apr 8, 2013)

Phx12 said:


> Oh, here's another one:
> 
> -Gaara and Kakashi are the only characters in Naruto that have been and stayed great characters, with Gaara getting the coveted award of "Best Character in Naruto" simply by virtue of his character development. Everyone else can go fuck themselves as far as I care.



 Wait a sec bro.

Kisame, Danzo, and Jiraiya are quality characters. 

But i agree Gaara and Kakashi are good stuff, and consistently so.


----------



## Sablés (Apr 8, 2013)

> Kisame, Danzo, and Jiraiya are quality characters.



and are dead, I think that was the whole point of the "characters in Naruto that have been and stayed great characters" bit.


----------



## OS (Apr 8, 2013)

Sabl?s said:


> You truly are the origin of all evil.



Did you read the post above you? Anak>Androssi? Heretic


----------



## P-X 12 (Apr 8, 2013)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Wait a sec bro.
> 
> Kisame, Danzo, and Jiraiya are quality characters.
> 
> But i agree Gaara and Kakashi are good stuff, and consistently so.



Wow, I completely forgot about Jiraiya. 

Eh, whatever. I'm talking about long running and alive characters. Any character that was only in one arc and/or is dead is not included.


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Apr 8, 2013)

Phx12 said:


> Wow, I completely forgot about Jiraiya.
> 
> Eh, whatever. I'm talking about long running and alive characters. Any character that was only in one arc and/or is dead is not included.



Yea i overlooked what you said lol.

Besides what you listed. Tobirama has been quite enjoyable for me. Hopefully he gets fleshed out more instead of the bigot side that kishimoto is just trying to toss at us.


----------



## Asune (Apr 8, 2013)

*-No, most shonens out there aren't better than the HST, once one of those mangas becomes mainstream people start to see how terrible it trully was, Fairy Tail's the best example.*

-JJBA
-Dragon Ball
-YYH
-HXH
-Toriko

*-JoJo's Bizarre Adventure is overrated*

Go kill yourself


----------



## Ice (Apr 8, 2013)

One Piece is overrated as fuck.


----------



## Basilikos (Apr 8, 2013)

Asune said:


> *-No, most shonens out there aren't better than the HST, once one of those mangas becomes mainstream people start to see how terrible it trully was, Fairy Tail's the best example.*
> 
> -JJBA
> -Dragon Ball
> ...


Actually, it was FT's writing that started out good but became so atrocious once Mashima started taking trolling lessons from Kubo. That is why people started to dislike it.



> *-JoJo's Bizarre Adventure is overrated*
> 
> Go kill yourself


Someone's mad.


----------



## Byrd (Apr 8, 2013)

Grimm6Jack said:


> To this guy^ and Doflamingo. I'm sorry, I forgot to add the word *monthly*.
> 
> My actual favourite manga tends to change from time to time. Like anyone else.
> Currently I am linking Bleach. In the past I've hated it as well(FKT and Deicide works = worst arcs of the HST).
> ...




Really doesn't change much, just the fact you are considering it good manga


----------



## Asune (Apr 8, 2013)

Fairty tail was interesting, or at least enjoyable at the beginning.
But it really went down quickly.

Same with Naruto

Bleach... I just could never withstand it.

One Piece has made me laugh. And I really don't see a problem with it. But is still too much to compare it with other stuff.


While mine examples had never or barely dissapointed me. And I can re-read them easily, and enjoy them again (Except hiatus).
Well Toriko is new, but it's really doing a good job


----------



## Alita (Apr 8, 2013)

You guys do know this is a thread where people are supposed to be able to freely voice their opinions without getting bashed right? 

My own personal opinions(Don't hate )...

I find series like one piece, toriko, and dragonball overrated, and while they are okay, they are no where near as good as alot of people make them out to be. And I certainly woulden't consider them some of the best fictions out there. 

Naruto is the best amongist the HST.

Pokemon is massively better over digimon.

Fairy Tail even with it's recent flaws is still a far better series over bleach(Worst arcs of fairy tail are masterpieces compared to worst arcs of bleach.).


----------



## MegaultraHay (Apr 8, 2013)

Fairy tail is bad ,but I don't think it's the spawn of the devil


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Apr 8, 2013)

Alita54 said:


> You guys do know this is a thread where people are supposed to be able to freely voice their opinions without getting bashed right?
> 
> My own personal opinions(Don't hate )...
> 
> ...



Agree with the bold X1000.

Disagree with the enlarged X1000.

Worst arcs of Fairy tail make me sick to my stomach, bleach just makes me laugh at the stupidity of the plot choices/outcomes



Grimm6Jack said:


> I thought the same .
> 
> 
> 
> ...



High school of the Dead>bleach.


----------



## Asune (Apr 8, 2013)

*You guys do know this is a thread where people are supposed to be able to freely voice their opinions without getting bashed right? *

There is a limit


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Apr 8, 2013)

Asune said:


> *You guys do know this is a thread where people are supposed to be able to freely voice their opinions without getting bashed right? *
> 
> There is a limit





Original Sin said:


> Boredom. And hopefully this would be fun.
> 
> by secrets i mean something like how I read all of To Love Ru pt.1 and didn't hate it
> 
> Controversial opinion? I think Rak Wraithraiser is highly overrated



No such thing was stated by the op. :ignoramus


----------



## Ice (Apr 8, 2013)

Also, Fairy Tail is shit beyond shit.


----------



## Byrd (Apr 8, 2013)

Axel Almer said:


> Also, Fairy Tail is shit beyond shit.



^ This... although this isn't a opinion.. its a fact


----------



## OS (Apr 8, 2013)

Asune said:


> *You guys do know this is a thread where people are supposed to be able to freely voice their opinions without getting bashed right? *
> 
> There is a limit



No bitches allowed.


----------



## Asune (Apr 8, 2013)

Axel Almer said:


> Also, Fairy Tail is shit beyond shit.



Fairy Tail is below pecking order

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zw6YxwOcg_A[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Qinglong (Apr 8, 2013)

Pokemon games > digimon games but digimon anime/manga > pokemon's

Both have good and bad monster designs

The entire HST is overrated just some of it more than the rest.


----------



## Stilzkin (Apr 8, 2013)

> digimon anime/manga > pokemon's



Pok?mon isn't actually trying in the anime department though is it? Has there actually been any development in that show since the first season?

I wish Digimon would take itself more seriously. Tamers was a step in the right direction but after that the series stumbled and died.


----------



## TheHobbler (Apr 9, 2013)

I found bleach anime filler as enjoyable, or more, than the show itself.

I enjoyed the last episodes of NGE.

...I seem to be lacking in opinions other than 2.


----------



## Asune (Apr 9, 2013)

TheHobbler said:


> *I found bleach anime filler as enjoyable*, or more, than the show itself.
> 
> I enjoyed the last episodes of NGE.
> 
> ...I seem to be lacking in opinions other than 2.


----------



## Sablés (Apr 9, 2013)

And we have a winner


----------



## Qinglong (Apr 9, 2013)

Stilzkin said:


> Pok?mon isn't actually trying in the anime department though is it? Has there actually been any development in that show since the first season?
> 
> I wish Digimon would take itself more seriously. Tamers was a step in the right direction but after that the series stumbled and died.



I kept getting summaries on what was not changing so I gave up on it

I'd consider the hst more salvageable than it is right now

I actually liked Savers and XW even though for the animes they end up in the middle overall for me (above YH/02 below 01/03)

@above: there were no last episodes. There was only the End.


----------



## Aldric (Apr 9, 2013)

Intus Legere said:


> I don't think Naruto was unsalvageable at any point before Part II.
> 
> I'd say Wave Country arc was very good, a really promising start for a manga. Chuunin exams was solid, except for the Gaara vs. Naruto part, which I'm not a big fan of. The rest of Part I was decent, although the very end was underwhelming, with characters that should have died then (Neji and Chouji) being deprived of their respectable death scenes.
> 
> ...



It started to be unsalvageable at the end of part 1 because this particular arc exhibited all of the fatal flaws that turned the manga into the pile of shit it is today, meaning the absurd focus on Sasuke, shitty antagonists, characters having meaningful death scenes only to get resurrected afterwards, the side cast embodied by Lee not doing jack shit of importance, ridiculous bursts of teenage melodrama in place of genuinely emotional scenes, the Sasuke/Naruto relationship devolving into a terrible yaoi fanfic constantly molesting the "show don't tell rule" etc etc

In itself it might not be much but it was the signal that the manga was heading into a cesspit, it might have been salvaged if Kishimoto somehow forgot it existed and made sure everything coming afterward was the complete opposite of this garbage, but instead he just made more of the same and cranked up the awfulness to eleven


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Apr 9, 2013)

Sasuke retrieval arc was good shit. 

My second favorite arc in naruto actually.


----------



## Aldric (Apr 9, 2013)

Mizura said:


> Nah, I'm not necessarily saying that Twilight Sparkle is an awesome character. I'm just saying that she made me realize how childish and incompetent many Shounen protagonists are, especially considering what they're expected to become. In real life they'd be George W. Bush, or worse. It's fine if people like them just because they're strong, they can be a professional sports athlete and engage in activism, but as a leader? Nah, they'd run the economy into the ground and start needless wars.
> 
> Twilight Sparkle's handling of the situation in Winter Wrap-up, by contrast, was quite impressive (and this is only one of many examples. Twilight can use force when it comes to defending the village or her friends, but also has shown ingenious ways of resolving many issues peacefully). In Winter Wrap-up, even though she wasn't naturally skilled at those tasks herself, she was still able to figure out more efficient ways for -everybody- else to handle their tasks, thus completing the task successfully. Naruto, for example, would have made a whole bunch of bunshins and try to handle everything himself (probably badly), and everybody would be back to square 1 once he passed on, whereas Twilight's methods can be used for generations to come.
> 
> ...



That entire rant seems to be only targeted at Naruto, which is a shitty character that's a given

I have no clue how that somehow applies to characters like Luffy, Toriko, Aladdin, Hachiken etc

Out of these the only one who's supposed to be a "leader" is Luffy and his job isn't to fill in paperwork, be a diplomat or manage the economy, he's a pirate captain whose ambition is to conquer territories by force 

I also have no idea why anybody would view these battle shonen heroes with this sort of hilariously depressing accountant mentality ("oh they're not very good with numbers and the economy!!! Such BAD CHARACTERS!") completely ignoring context but whatever, I guess we're being controversial


----------



## Stilzkin (Apr 9, 2013)

> characters having meaningful death scenes only to get resurrected afterwards



Neji and Chouji?

I think Neji's story that arc left him opened to be developed more.

Deaths don't make a series better. I'd rather have the characters who just got explored be left alive and be developed further and be used for the rest of the series. Better than the author having to create new characters and develop those again to the same short extent. As the part one had such a heavy underdog theme seeing the journey of all the rookies would have been good.


----------



## TheHobbler (Apr 9, 2013)

Enies Lobby wasn't so great. Some fights, but I prefered Skypiea and Thriller Bark much more.

Thriller Bark is my second favorite arc, except for Alabasta.

Lucci could have been a much better villian, came off as Spanda's bitch.

I want to watch the Naruto anime exclusively for the filler, in hopes that it develops the vast number of characters Kishimoto ignored.

The new Doctor Who series is easily outclassed by the Tom Baker era in story and script. It's like they tried to make up for it with slightly less shit special effects. (Not anime or manga, but opinion. Yeh.)

I find fan service useless, and it just made FT even shittier than it already was for me. I dropped after the chapter dedicated entirely to it. That odd pool chapter.


----------



## Aldric (Apr 9, 2013)

Stilzkin said:


> Neji and Chouji?
> 
> I think Neji's story that arc left him opened to be developed more.



Yeah and we all saw how well that worked



> Deaths don't make a series better. I'd rather have the characters who just got explored be left alive and be developed further and be used for the rest of the series. Better than the author having to create new characters and develop those again to the same short extent. As the part one had such a heavy underdog theme seeing the journey of all the rookies would have been good.



Of course deaths don't make a series automatically better, but if you're going out of your way to give your characters symbolic death scenes only to go WOOPS JUST KIDDING 50 chapters later then what's the point

Oda is guilty of this too btw (Pell was sort of ridiculous for ex)

And if you resurrect these characters, then fucking do something with them

Neji was completely worthless for 400 chapters only to get killed for real this time and for what result? NAROOHEENA?


----------



## Lord Genome (Apr 9, 2013)

it was for the friendship bird aldric

it was needed


----------



## Aldric (Apr 9, 2013)

How could I forget the magical friendship shitbird


----------



## p-lou (Apr 9, 2013)

you're slipping in your old age aldrich


----------



## Lord Genome (Apr 9, 2013)

TheHobbler said:


> I want to watch the Naruto anime exclusively for the filler, in hopes that it develops the vast number of characters Kishimoto ignored.


also

it doesnt


----------



## Mizura (Apr 9, 2013)

Aldric said:


> I have no clue how that somehow applies to characters like Luffy, Toriko, Aladdin, Hachiken etc


Hachiken is quite smart actually, but my comments weren't targeted at characters like him.  Hachiken is quite smart but everybody treats him as normal. I'm refering to those dumb as f*ck characters that everybody treats like the Messiah. Toriko is not implied to become a leader of any sorts though, he's more like a super-star and treated as such, and besides his situation is mostly comedy.



> Out of these the only one who's supposed to be a "leader" is Luffy and his job isn't to fill in paperwork, be a diplomat or manage the economy, he's a pirate captain whose ambition is to conquer territories by force


All the great military conquerors in the past were masters of organization, logistics, applying technology, and careful studies of the situation (enemy and terrains). Only in a kiddie world does one become a great conqueror just by mindlessly charging in.


----------



## TheHobbler (Apr 9, 2013)

Well that's one thing to cross off my to-do list.

And I should amend my previous statement: I found the Bleach anime filler more enjoyable than the vast majority of the anime.


----------



## TheHobbler (Apr 9, 2013)

Mizura said:


> All the great military conquerors in the past were masters of organization, logistics, applying technology, and careful studies of the situation (enemy and terrains). Only in a kiddie world does one become a great conqueror just by mindlessly charging in.



       Sorry to but in to your fun convo, but (I suppose this could be argued away with a hand wave and 'kiddie world') the world Oda crafted does allow for something very close to just that. Since armies have the majority of their power in a small number of powerful fighters, people like Luffy don't need a large amount of grand strategy (read as: none) as long as they can defeat these core figures. Easily seen in the Marineford arc when great swaths of Marines were getting wiped out, and the only people to do things were those Vice Admiral level and higher. It is most definitely not like reality, where armies rely on manpower and arms, using high ranking military officials as strategy and tactical commanders.
       Yeah, Luffy is stupid, but he does usually get right to the core of what is needed to be done. He doesn't set out to conquer anything, everything he does is basically by accident.


----------



## Byrd (Apr 9, 2013)

not a single fuck was given with Neji & his death.. it was a waste of panel space


----------



## OtherGalaxy (Apr 9, 2013)

Lord Genome said:


> it was for the friendship bird aldric
> 
> it was needed



Even better, the random bird that got stabbed afterwards
Definition of depth and symbolism


----------



## Mizura (Apr 9, 2013)

TheHobbler said:


> (I suppose this could be argued away with a hand wave and 'kiddie world')
> It is most definitely not like reality, where armies rely on manpower and arms, using high ranking military officials as strategy and tactical commanders.
> Yeah, Luffy is stupid, but he does usually get right to the core of what is needed to be done. He doesn't set out to conquer anything, everything he does is basically by accident.


That's exactly what I mean: stupid world that can be toppled over by stupid people. In the real world, organizational roots are very hard to topple, even if you kill a head or two. That's why the Taliban is still running the show in Afghanistan, and why sectarian messes aren't going to be resolved anytime soon in Iraq (and why Bush should really have done his homework before charging in there. This was no mystery: I was in Europe at the time and the European newspapers were all explaining how the sectarian conflicts would make a war much more complicated than it seems. But noooo, brainless folks like Bush thought that they could just march in there and be greeted with roses and oil. Yet for some reason that's what happens in manga :\ ) 

Paperwork may seem boring, but rebuilding the economy and installing systems that ensure the smooth and just operation of the country are much more important (and much harder) than any idealism. We're seeing many examples of that now: countries that have toppled their old leaders, but can't find someone competent enough to actually fix the country. Killing a guy is the easy part, the hard part is management. Heck, look at Occupy Wall Street. It wasn't hard to get a bunch of people to just sit there for some time. But did anyone propose an actual, workable solution? Does anyone think that beating up a few bankers or rich guys will resolve anything?

I'm fine with dumb protagonists, but only when they're treated as such. When they're obviously dumb but everyone thinks otherwise, unless it's just meant to be funny, then it seriously strains my credibility of the world. If one admits that it's a kiddie world, then that's fine. If you try to convince me that it's a deep work of literature, sorry but lol.


----------



## Imagine (Apr 9, 2013)

OtherGalaxy said:


> Even better, the random bird that got stabbed afterwards
> Definition of depth and symbolism


If you didn't cry when Neji died, then you're a robot.


----------



## OtherGalaxy (Apr 9, 2013)

Imagine said:


> If you didn't cry when Neji died, then you're a *robot. *


----------



## Asune (Apr 9, 2013)

Neji died?
Who was Neji btw?


----------



## shade0180 (Apr 9, 2013)

Imagine said:


> If you didn't cry when Neji died, then you're a robot.



Crying at Neji's death.. lolImagine.


----------



## Aldric (Apr 9, 2013)

Mizura said:


> Hachiken is quite smart actually, but my comments weren't targeted at characters like him.  Hachiken is quite smart but everybody treats him as normal. I'm refering to those dumb as f*ck characters that everybody treats like the Messiah.



Yeah so Naruto then 



> Toriko is not implied to become a leader of any sorts though, he's more like a super-star and treated as such, and besides his situation is mostly comedy.



Yes, you just admitted that two of the main characters from popular currently running shonen didn't fit with your rant

Makes that whole "many shounen protagonists" generalization pretty worthless



> All the great military conquerors in the past were masters of organization, logistics, applying technology, and careful studies of the situation (enemy and terrains). Only in a kiddie world does one become a great conqueror just by mindlessly charging in.



Really now

Are you actually talking shit about comic books for kids because they're... comic books for kids?

Besides some of that shitty pony's traits you're gushing about have been exhibited by Luffy too (he made his "I can't navigate, fight with swords, cook or lie" speech as early as Arlong Park, he dropped on his knees and lowered his head following Vivi's example in Drum to avoid conflict etc)

The point is One Piece is an adventure/battle manga and the worth of Luffy as a main character should be determined by how well he fits with the story, in this case his straightforward, dumb and fun loving personality helps ensuring the plot progresses smoothly by throwing him head first into adventures and battles, while a cold, calculating and analytical main character would be detrimental

Hence Luffy does his job well, he's a good character

Again, context


----------



## Imagine (Apr 9, 2013)

Even artificial beings knew how sad it was.


Asune said:


> Neji died?
> Who was Neji btw?


Exactly.


----------



## Mizura (Apr 9, 2013)

> Yes, you just admitted that two of the main characters from popular currently running shonen didn't fit with your rant
> 
> Makes that whole "many shounen protagonists" generalization pretty worthless


Many is not the same as all.  Silver Spoon isn't even that popular here.

Let's see, we have Naruto, One Piece, the characters in the Bleach world expect an awful lot from Kurosaki too, Magi may fit the bill (though the verdict is still open on that), Shaman King (though he didn't become king in the end. Still, the general tropes are there), then there are a whole bunch of shorter series where the hero saves the world just by defeating an evil monster, even some Shoujo manga such as Sailor Moon also fit the bill.



> Are you actually talking shit about comic books for kids because they're... comic books for kids?


You admit that they're kiddie?



> Besides some of that shitty pony's traits you're gushing about have been exhibited by Luffy too (he made his "I can't navigate, fight with swords, cook or lie" speech as early as Arlong Park, he dropped on his knees and lowered his head following Vivi's example in Drum to avoid conflict etc)


Seems to me he doesn't lead nor organize. His crew functions despite his antics, not thanks to them. I'm not gushing about Twilight Sparkle by the way, just observing that even a pony is more competent than many of the characters people argue about all the time in these forums.



> The point is One Piece is an adventure/battle manga and the worth of Luffy as a main character should be determined by how well he fits with the story, in this case his straightforward, *dumb* and fun loving personality


Yeah yeah.  He's straightforward and dumb, I'll give you that.

Seems to me that we're in agreement though. Luffy is a straightforward and dumb character in a comic book for kids. No need to hype it up as more than it is. 

If you want to argue about MLP by the way, it's also for kids, though it's structured in a way that children (and perhaps older) can learn some good lessons that can be applied to real life, including adult life.


----------



## Kirito (Apr 9, 2013)

Aldric said:


> Oda is guilty of this too btw (Pell was sort of ridiculous for ex)



eh i think oda gets a pass

we were never shown a body after all for those people. it's easier to assume death in OP as with a body. if there's no body (you can substitute a grave too) there's no confirmation.


----------



## Renegade Knight (Apr 9, 2013)

Oh my. **


----------



## Nighty the Mighty (Apr 9, 2013)

Original Sin said:


> Mods say fuck you
> 
> And players with actual skill can say fuck you too. Jax is fun, but Zed and Vi beat him erryday.



I hate to agree with OS but yes.

Vi>Jax

Anyway the main ones I have would be that:

1. One Piece is basically the most over-rated manga I've ever read.

2. Some of OP's villains I can't take seriously and this hurts my enjoyment of it.


----------



## Byrd (Apr 9, 2013)

There are only two OP villains I actually enjoy...

Croc & Enel

everyone else is tolerable 


Although I believe the HST villains as a whole are terrible


----------



## ZenithXAbyss (Apr 9, 2013)

Bleach anime is the best amongst the hst.


----------



## Renegade Knight (Apr 9, 2013)

Byrdman said:


> There are only two OP villains I actually enjoy...
> 
> Croc & Enel



Good answer.


----------



## Byrd (Apr 9, 2013)

Beach anime?


----------



## ZenithXAbyss (Apr 9, 2013)

Nightbringer said:


> I hate to agree with OS but yes.
> 
> *Vi>Jax*
> 
> ...


You haven't fought many experienced jax users then.


Fiora > all in pure 1on1 Though.


----------



## Mihawk (Apr 9, 2013)

@JoJo Yea Tina is a fucking annoying bitch man.

I stopped watching the Toriko anime and switched to reading it instead because of that annoying bimbo


----------



## PPsycho (Apr 9, 2013)

shade0180 said:


> Are game topic allowed here? Out of all the Megaman/Rockman series I never liked the Megaman Zero series... I did like using Zero on some occasions in the X series but Taking over as a protagonist and leaving out Megaman didn't feel right for me.


Thought I'll just leave this topic alone, but 

The gameplay of Zero series was great, though a bit challenging, it introduced the oh-how-awesome Four Guardians of Neo arcadia, the story - though most of it was in the background - was very cool as well. And as far as gameplay goes ZX series was even better.

It does sucks that they made X into a cyber elf, but imho Zero was a good protagonist and my heart aches that someone can dislike him


----------



## Bruce Wayne (Apr 9, 2013)

Stilzkin said:


> Neji and Chouji?
> 
> I think Neji's story that arc left him opened to be developed more.
> 
> Deaths don't make a series better. I'd rather have the characters who just got explored be left alive and be developed further and be used for the rest of the series. Better than the author having to create new characters and develop those again to the same short extent. As the part one had such a heavy underdog theme seeing the journey of all the rookies would have been good.



Actually Kishimoto did plan on killing both Neji and Chouji off, but the editors and stuffed kind of ruined.


----------



## Nightfall (Apr 9, 2013)

I really didn't like GetBackers..:\

I think the worst thing Rachel did is what happened to Dan recently. Anything else I'll wait until we see her entire story.


----------



## Intus Legere (Apr 9, 2013)

OtherGalaxy said:


> Most people seem to agree with this



My post was an answer to Aldric's. I should have quoted him, somehow I thought his post on page 8 was the last one.


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (Apr 9, 2013)

Original Sin said:


> I'm the OP.


you think anyone will do what you say ?  




Axel Almer said:


> One Piece is overrated as fuck.


it's true

might as well put it as bluntly as possible






TheHobbler said:


> I found bleach anime filler as enjoyable


yep

I legitimately liked at least 2 filler arcs - Zanpakuto rebellion and the cloned captains .. and the final fights in both of those as well .. and the opening in that second one I mentioned was great


and yeah, Bleach *anime* is the best in the HST .. overall .. though if you take OP anime only up until the end of EL or so then it'd be #1





oh yeah, Goku and Kamina are both overrated (and Goku is wanked both in movies/GT and by fans) .. Goku would never ever make my top 3 DB chars, probably not even top 5

Simon and Kittan >> Kamina

I never shed a tear on Kaminas death, though it was sad .. I actually cried twice at Kittans death  (first in the series and then in the 2-nd movie even though I already knew he'd die) .. Virals family moment is up there as well


----------



## Black Leg Sanji (Apr 9, 2013)

Fluttershy said:


> it's true
> 
> might as well put it as bluntly as possible



As its degraded in quality the hype hasnt got any weaker 

Bad combo


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Apr 9, 2013)

Nightfall said:


> I really didn't like GetBackers..:\
> 
> I think the worst thing Rachel did is what happened to Dan recently. Anything else I'll wait until we see her entire story.



Didn't really like get backers.

Kill yourself with fire


----------



## Melodie (Apr 9, 2013)

Hmm..

I find Josei/Shojo anime to be superior to Shounen/Seinen in-general [although there are Shounens and Seinens that are better than a lot of the josei/shojo mangas that I read].
One piece is a generic shouen, and it's average at best.
Magi is the best *weekly* shounen [Hunter x Hunter would have that spot if it's not on Hiatus constantly]
Toriko is below average/average [dropped it at 52, probably not my type].


----------



## JoJo (Apr 9, 2013)

Imagine said:


> If you didn't cry when Neji died, then you're a robot.


----------



## Cheeky (Apr 9, 2013)

I dropped Naruto a while ago and I heartily recommend it.


----------



## Bruce Wayne (Apr 9, 2013)

Part 1 Naruto was and is the best out HST by far. 

I found The Sasuke Retrieval Arc way more enjoyable than Ennies Lobby. 

All of the fights on Ennies Lobby that didn't include Luffy were boring.


----------



## Mihawk (Apr 9, 2013)

Part I Naruto is overrated.

Chunin Exam was amazing though


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Apr 9, 2013)

Bruce Wayne said:


> Part 1 Naruto was and is the best out HST by far.
> 
> I found The Sasuke Retrieval Arc way more enjoyable than Ennies Lobby.
> 
> *All of the fights on Ennies Lobby that didn't include Luffy were boring*.



WTF.

All the fights even Namis was not boring.


----------



## Powerful Lord (Apr 9, 2013)

I disliked Nami's fights a lot, she allways wins thanks to plot shield.


----------



## Narutossss (Apr 9, 2013)

god fuck I hate nami so much  dumb binbo


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (Apr 9, 2013)

yeah Nami is meh

Robin >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Nami 


Luffy vs Lucci was the best in EL by far, but some others were ok too


----------



## Byrd (Apr 9, 2013)

Water 7 > EL


----------



## OtherGalaxy (Apr 9, 2013)

Fluttershy said:


> Simon and *Kittan* >> Kamina



Agreed, but Kittan was pretty much always my favorite

Although I never got back around to watching all of TTGL
Interest in it just died after a while


----------



## Dellinger (Apr 9, 2013)

I doubt that Flutter's opinion should be taken seriously since what he regards as quality is Juubi throwing nukes 

Regarding the topic.

Madara is the most retarded main antagonist presented in a manga.


----------



## Renegade Knight (Apr 9, 2013)

Byrdman said:


> Water 7 > EL



This.

Enies Lobby can't hold a candle to Water 7.


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (Apr 9, 2013)

White Hawk said:


> I doubt that Flutter's opinion should be taken seriously since what he regards as quality is Juubi throwing nukes


this coming from a crack baby lover 


and do I hear rustling ?


----------



## B Rabbit (Apr 9, 2013)

I don't understand how you call One Piece average, and still think Naruto is the best. 

You can like Naruto better, but claim that it's better writing is just.


----------



## Renegade Knight (Apr 9, 2013)

I think he's talking about Part 1 Naruto.




Right?


----------



## B Rabbit (Apr 9, 2013)

Even Part 1 Naruto wasn't as good as Part 1 One Piece. 

Water 7 truly stomps anything in Part 1 Naruto. An I'll glady debate that, and prove you wrong.  That shits hilarious. 

One Piece is overrated? It has every goddamn right to be, it's the highest selling manga in the world.  

Writers like Kubo, Kishi, Shima, Akira all read it, and almost always comment on how good it is when there asked. I mean fuck it, stop whining, about it.

All you people are whining like Lil Wayne fans when Eminem is brought up into the fucking conversation.

So what if it does have it's faults. So does every other manga out there.


----------



## Null (Apr 9, 2013)

Onani master Kurosawa is overrated as fuck. Don't get me wrong I still enjoyed it but I have people telling me it's the best thing ever published.


----------



## Renegade Knight (Apr 9, 2013)

Torafarugo Ro said:


> Even Part 1 Naruto wasn't as good as Part 1 One Piece.
> 
> Water 7 truly stomps anything in Part 1 Naruto. An I'll glady debate that, and prove you wrong.  That shits hilarious.
> 
> ...





Yep, no arguing with that. 


I'm out.


----------



## B Rabbit (Apr 9, 2013)

Null Void said:


> Onani master Kurosawa is overrated as fuck. Don't get me wrong I still enjoyed it but I have people telling me it's the best thing ever published.



I never heard of it. 

when it comes to manga being the greatest thing it's always Vagabond. I really want to read it, but I have to finish the ones I'm on.


----------



## Null (Apr 9, 2013)

Torafarugo Ro said:


> I never heard of it.
> 
> when it comes to manga being the greatest thing it's always Vagabond. I really want to read it, but I have to finish the ones I'm on.



It's a manga about a guy who's free time consists of him jacking off in an abandon girl's bathroom only to be caught by some quiet girl that blackmails him to jack off into the uniforms of the people she hates.

I probably made it sound terrible but it's only like 30 chapters long and enjoyable to read


----------



## JoJo (Apr 9, 2013)

I had EL arc of One Piece spoiled for me, so I thought W7 arc was dragged on a lot. Same with Skyipea towards the ending.


----------



## B Rabbit (Apr 9, 2013)

I skipped Water 7 and Skypiea and went to the end of Enies Lobby and enjoyed it just as much. 

I shat bricks when I saw G2 Luffy, I didn't grow up with DBZ, I grew up with One Piece, so G2 was like my Super Saiyan.


----------



## Null (Apr 9, 2013)

Oh I also think Kuroko no Basket and Toriko have been the best things that come out from WSJ in a while


----------



## OtherGalaxy (Apr 9, 2013)

Null Void said:


> It's a manga about a guy who's free time consists of him jacking off in an abandon girl's bathroom only to be caught by some quiet girl that blackmails him to jack off into the uniforms of the people she hates.
> 
> I probably made it sound terrible but it's only like 30 chapters long and enjoyable to read



*What*

That's not what I heard about it _at all_


----------



## B Rabbit (Apr 9, 2013)

Null Void said:


> Oh I also think Kuroko no Basket and Toriko have been the best things that come out WSJ in a while



Toriko's been interesting me for a while.  

I like the Elg fight so far.


----------



## Null (Apr 9, 2013)

OtherGalaxy said:


> *What*
> 
> That's not what I heard about it _at all_



That's pretty much what it is in the beginning but it gets better. But like I said I probably made it sound like shit because I haven't read it in a while


----------



## Urouge (Apr 9, 2013)

Black Leg Sanji said:


> As its degraded in quality the hype hasnt got any weaker
> 
> Bad combo



it hasnt really degraded. its the same as it was before but its just that some people only care about power levels and big ass explosions. the plot is advancing nicely and nearly all the big players have been introduced. its still as good as it was in part 1 imo


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (Apr 9, 2013)

W7/EL shits on anything post-skip

FI was awful


----------



## Aldric (Apr 9, 2013)

I think you could argue that the post timeskip OP arcs have been weak

Fishman Island was definitely a huge letdown, and Punk Hazard was so so

Of course it followed probably one of the best arcs in the series which was the Marineford battle and it seems to be back to its best now with Dressrossa so who cares

Number One Piece


----------



## B Rabbit (Apr 9, 2013)

A true One Piece fan will tell you that Fishman Island was awful. 

Atleast for the majority. Near then end with the finishers it got pretty good.

I liked PH, but it had some major letdowns.


----------



## Aldric (Apr 9, 2013)

Also that guy has a my little pony username and is an Itachi fan

His opinion is by essence invalid


----------



## Urouge (Apr 9, 2013)

Melodie said:


> Hmm..
> 
> I find Josei/Shojo anime to be superior to Shounen/Seinen in-general [although there are Shounens and Seinens that are better than a lot of the josei/shojo mangas that I read].
> *One piece is a generic shouen*, and it's average at best.
> ...



I dont mind people not liking one piece but to say that its generic is quite stupid. i mean its not like the pirate theme has been overdone in the manga industry. I also dont remember other mangas with fruit that grants you powers. you cant really say that the characters are generic I mean look at kuma, moriah, doflamingo and BB to just name a few.just say you dont like but stop saying that its generic or at least give reasons why you think its generic.


----------



## Byrd (Apr 9, 2013)

FI wasn't all that terrible in terms of plot... I think a lot of people dislike it due to no flashy fights..

I like the Fisherman Tiger flashback as well as several other themes that were present in FI...

Its definitely not the worst OP arc..

The only thing I see OP number one in is Sales..

Plot-wise... Hell no

Character-wise.. even tho I like the characters..  Hell no


----------



## Urouge (Apr 9, 2013)

Aldric said:


> Also that guy has a my little pony username and is an Itachi fan
> 
> His opinion is by essence invalid



hahahahahaha


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (Apr 9, 2013)

Aldric said:


> Also that guy has a my little pony username and is an Itachi fan
> 
> His opinion is by essence invalid


I knew if I kept talking predictable reactions would follow


----------



## Narutossss (Apr 9, 2013)

from what I've read from this thread, it seems op fans have had the most butthurt reactions, no surprises here


----------



## God Movement (Apr 9, 2013)

This thread is terrible


----------



## B Rabbit (Apr 9, 2013)

:rofl


----------



## OtherGalaxy (Apr 9, 2013)

Wait Flutter
You're an Itachi fan

How could you do this to me


----------



## Urouge (Apr 9, 2013)

Byrdman said:


> FI wasn't all that terrible in terms of plot... I think a lot of people dislike it due to no flashy fights..
> 
> I like the Fisherman Tiger flashback as well as several other themes that were present in FI...
> 
> Its definitely not the worst OP arc



I agree with this

I read the arc in one go a month ago and it was much better. the plot was really good its just a shame that hody and his gang were so weak. oda couldnt let the sh struggle straightaway after their training so he had to make them stomp their enemy.


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (Apr 9, 2013)

OS-tier           .


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (Apr 9, 2013)

OtherGalaxy said:


> Wait Flutter
> You're an Itachi fan
> 
> How could you do this to me








*Spoiler*: __ 










*Spoiler*: __ 



Imagine is too  .. it is the one thing we share


----------



## B Rabbit (Apr 9, 2013)

Narutossss said:


> from what I've read from this thread, it seems op fans have had the most butthurt reactions, no surprises here



You compared dropping a manga to a failing marriage. 

Noone wants to hear your opinion on anything.  

This thread is terrible, we had something going, but we don't really have people with valid opinions, or know how to take up for them.

If I want to talk to fans who are on the bandwagon I'll stick to the highschool population.


----------



## Renegade Knight (Apr 9, 2013)

GM, go back to your Doflasicle set.


----------



## Urouge (Apr 9, 2013)

Narutossss said:


> from what I've read from this thread, it seems op fans have had the most butthurt reactions, no surprises here



where do you see any butthurt? we're not bashing other series so gtfo


----------



## B Rabbit (Apr 9, 2013)

GM needs to go back to his Law set.


----------



## Narutossss (Apr 9, 2013)

and you said dropping a manga equates to the reader never once loving it at all, you have no right to talk


----------



## OtherGalaxy (Apr 9, 2013)

Torafarugo Ro said:


> GM needs to go back to his Law set.



Law is overrated


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (Apr 9, 2013)

Black Vergo set > Law set


----------



## B Rabbit (Apr 9, 2013)

You don't say you love a manga, and drop it after one manga.  

You clearly just read it because everyone liked it at the time, and didn't have an opinion on yourself, because you can't develop an opinion for yourself.


----------



## B Rabbit (Apr 9, 2013)

Fluttershy said:


> Black Vergo set > Law set



You mean the one where Law cuts up Black Vergo?


----------



## JoJo (Apr 9, 2013)

Law is overrated just because he was strong. I was happy when I saw Vergo put his ass in place. 

Vergo > Law


----------



## OtherGalaxy (Apr 9, 2013)

Fluttershy said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...




*Spoiler*: __ 




I am appeased


----------



## OtherGalaxy (Apr 9, 2013)

Urouge said:


> its lolimagine what do you expect. his love for itachi is one of the many reason why hes lolimagine



I never would have known


----------



## JoJo (Apr 9, 2013)

Urouge said:


> its lolimagine what do you expect. his love for itachi is one of the many reason why hes lolimagine


lol "one of the *many* reasons".


OtherGalaxy said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

Cars adapts to the MS and destroyed Itashit.


----------



## Byrd (Apr 9, 2013)

Torafarugo Ro said:


> You don't say you love a manga, and drop it after one manga.
> 
> You clearly just read it because everyone liked it at the time, and didn't have an opinion on yourself, because you can't develop an opinion for yourself.



It depends... you can read a manga for many chapters and drop it due to various reasons...

I pick up and drop a lot of manga... I drop FT, Black God, Cerberus, Break Blade etc..

I read like 50 chapters of Break Blade and drop it

I read like 20+ chapters of Black God and drop it

I read FT for one chapter and drop it

Cerberus I put 7 chapters worth of reading and drop it


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (Apr 9, 2013)

this feels like a cancerconvo


----------



## Narutossss (Apr 9, 2013)

Torafarugo Ro said:


> You don't say you love a manga, and drop it after one manga.
> 
> You clearly just read it because everyone liked it at the time, and didn't have an opinion on yourself, because you can't develop an opinion for yourself.



and you somehow came to conclusion how? I'm looking at my monitor completely confused, you don't even know me at all, not what I like to read nor do you even know when I even got into one piece. can you somehow read minds through your computer or are your levels of butthurt effecting your mind?


----------



## B Rabbit (Apr 9, 2013)

All these Law haters.  

It's whatever lol  Doflamingo will most likely put him in his place.


----------



## Urouge (Apr 9, 2013)

law is a good character dont understand the haters


----------



## Byrd (Apr 9, 2013)

Fluttershy said:


> this feels like a cancerconvo



Its spreading


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (Apr 9, 2013)

Law is good, but people couldn't get his dick out of their mouths at first


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (Apr 9, 2013)

> cancer





Byrdman said:


> spreading


----------



## B Rabbit (Apr 9, 2013)

Narutossss said:


> and you somehow came to conclusion how? I'm looking at my monitor completely confused, you don't even know me at all, not what I like to read nor do you even know when I even got into one piece. can you somehow read minds through your computer or are your levels of butthurt effecting your mind?



I'm only stating what your giving me. You've yet to state anything that will change my view. You've yet to explain any reasoning behind your opinion. 

Therefore do to the lack of argument from your part, or explanation I've had to come to my own conclusion based on the evidence around me, now that you're resulting to insults makes me think that you never actually had anything going for it in the first place.


----------



## OtherGalaxy (Apr 9, 2013)

I don't hate Law
Just been seeing him everywhere for the past few months so he got old imo


----------



## Urouge (Apr 9, 2013)

well yeah but its not a really good reason to hate on him. so many people were wanking him after he beat smoker then bashing him after vergo beat him up and then wanked him again after he beat vergo. people are just fickle


----------



## Renegade Knight (Apr 9, 2013)

Fluttershy said:


> this feels like a cancerconvo



No thread is safe.


----------



## Byrd (Apr 9, 2013)

I'm now convince people cannot handle reading the HST even with their weak plot structure, simple characterization and simple ideologies.


----------



## Harard (Apr 9, 2013)

Melodie said:


> Hmm..
> 
> I find Josei/Shojo anime to be superior to Shounen/Seinen in-general [although there are Shounens and Seinens that are better than a lot of the josei/shojo mangas that I read].
> One piece is a generic shouen, and it's average at best.
> ...



Your taste sucks.


----------



## Narutossss (Apr 9, 2013)

Torafarugo Ro said:


> I'm only stating what your giving me. You've yet to state anything that will change my view. You've yet to explain any reasoning behind your opinion.
> 
> Therefore do to the lack of argument from your part, or explanation I've had to come to my own conclusion based on the evidence around me, now that you're resulting to insults makes me think that you never actually had anything going for it in the first place.



first of all you're not stating what I've giving you. what part of any of my posts in this thread could lead you believe quote 





> You clearly just read it because everyone liked it at the time


 first you'd need to know when I started reading one piece to even make this assumption, which was not even stated anywhere in this thread. this leads me to believe your taking this out of your ass.

secondly this thread is about controversial *opinions * if I didn't have my own opinion I wouldn't even be posting in a thread like this, you're clearly just bitter cause I said I dropped one piece because it was boring, an observation I made for *myself*.


----------



## JoJo (Apr 9, 2013)

Harard said:


> Your taste sucks.



I agree with this man.


----------



## Viper (Apr 9, 2013)

Wow look at this place


----------



## Renegade Knight (Apr 9, 2013)

Viper, tell us your controversial but terrible opinions on manga and anime.


----------



## Narutossss (Apr 9, 2013)

Viper said:


> Wow look at this place



this was bound to happen the minute someone said anything negative about one piece.


----------



## Gin (Apr 9, 2013)

I haven't read Naruto and don't intend to.   Is that controversial enough for a Naruto site?


----------



## B Rabbit (Apr 9, 2013)

Narutossss said:


> first of all you're not stating what I've giving you. what part of any of my posts in this thread could lead you believe quote  first you'd need to when I started reading one piece to even make this assumption, which was not even stated anywhere in this thread. this leads me to believe your taking this out of your ass.
> 
> secondly this thread is about controversial *opinions * if I didn't have my own opinion I wouldn't even be posting in a thread like this, you're clearly just bitter cause I said I dropped one piece because it was boring, an observation I made for *myself*.



1. You said - you read One Piece, and dropped it because Fishman Island was bad. Nothing else in that post made it clear other wise you dropped it. 
2. I don't need to know your life story between you and One Piece to make a conclusion on why you dropped it. 
3. If I was bitter I would have quoted every other poster who dropped One Piece, but I didn't. You want to know why? Because they didn't have an half assed opinion.
4. Again you dropped One Piece because it was boring, but you said in your post you dropped it because Fishman Island was bring. I said you can't say you are a true fan of a series if you dropped it for one arc. Your repsonse is "BlaH Blah Blah, you don't know my life story, so you can't judge me you dumbass, bitter fuck." 

I could give a darn less why you dropped it, I just said the reason you dropped it from your original post is stupid.


----------



## JoJo (Apr 9, 2013)

I dropped naruto like 3-5 times. When I started it back up during the war arc I randomly skipped to chapter 511: Prerequisite to be Hokage.


----------



## Bruce Wayne (Apr 9, 2013)

Byrdman said:


> I'm now convince people cannot handle reading the HST even with their weak plot structure, simple characterization and simple ideologies.



Naruto didn't start off like that.


----------



## Byrd (Apr 9, 2013)

Bruce Wayne said:


> Naruto didn't start off like that.



It's been like that since Chapter One


----------



## Narutossss (Apr 9, 2013)

Torafarugo Ro said:


> 1. You said - you read One Piece, and dropped it because Fishman Island was bad. Nothing else in that post made it clear other wise you dropped it.
> 2. I don't need to know your life story between you and One Piece to make a conclusion on why you dropped it.
> 3. If I was bitter I would have quoted every other poster who dropped One Piece, but I didn't. You want to know why? Because they didn't have an half assed opinion.
> 4. Again you dropped One Piece because it was boring, but you said in your post you dropped it because Fishman Island was bring. I said you can't say you are a true fan of a series if you dropped it for one arc. Your repsonse is "BlaH Blah Blah, you don't know my life story, so you can't judge me you dumbass, bitter fuck."
> ...


basically proving that you're bitter that I dropped one piece because it got boring. Anyone with half a brain cell would know that it's logical to stop doing something that can no longer entertain you. 



> Your repsonse is "BlaH Blah Blah, you don't know my life story, so you can't judge me you dumbass, bitter fuck."[/



 I really also enjoy how you keep putting words in my month, it's cute.:amazed


----------



## B Rabbit (Apr 9, 2013)

Since you are repeating yourself, and now just going back to middleschool insults I'm going to take it as a concessions accepted. I never put your words in your mouth that weren't already said. Concessions accepted.


----------



## Bruce Wayne (Apr 9, 2013)

Byrdman said:


> It's been like that since Chapter One



Chapter 1 alone introduced introduced future plot points and themes.


----------



## Narutossss (Apr 9, 2013)

Torafarugo Ro said:


> Since you are repeating yourself, and now just going back to middleschool insults I'm going to take it as a concessions accepted. I never put your words in your mouth that weren't already said. Concessions accepted.



riiiight you just go on and believe what you want to believe doesn't change the fact the I dropped one piece and that kills you


----------



## B Rabbit (Apr 9, 2013)

I could literally care less.


----------



## Renegade Knight (Apr 9, 2013)




----------



## JoJo (Apr 9, 2013)

Narutossss said:


> riiiight you just go on and believe what you want to believe doesn't change the fact the I dropped one piece and that kills you



Doubt Tora could give a shit.  

One less trash fan to read OP is better than a fan that constantly bashes it.

edit:


Torafarugo Ro said:


> I could literally care less.


looks like I was right.


----------



## B Rabbit (Apr 9, 2013)

I'm having a heart attack right now. 

Narutoss literally killed me.


----------



## JoJo (Apr 9, 2013)

Torafarugo Ro said:


> I'm having a heart attack right now.
> 
> Narutoss literally killed me.


Good.  one less wanker.


----------



## Narutossss (Apr 9, 2013)

JoJo said:


> Doubt Tora could give a shit.
> 
> One less trash fan to read OP is better than a fan that constantly bashes it.


OMG how can I go on living without one piece?

*Spoiler*: __


----------



## Viper (Apr 9, 2013)

Renegade Knight said:


> Viper, tell us your controversial but terrible opinions on manga and anime.



I like Tenten, I think she's awesome.


----------



## Sablés (Apr 9, 2013)

I dislike Kamina, way too overrated for a character with so little screen time. His lasting effects in the series are commendable enough, tbf.


Also HxH>OP, imo.


----------



## Narutossss (Apr 9, 2013)

Sabl?s said:


> I dislike Kamina, way too overrated for a character with so little screen time. His lasting effects in the series are commendable enough, tbf.
> 
> 
> *Also HxH>OP, imo*.



this is pretty much a fact.


----------



## Sablés (Apr 9, 2013)

Exept it isn't.


----------



## B Rabbit (Apr 9, 2013)

Viper said:


> I like Tenten, I think she's awesome.


This is neither controversial or a secret. 


Sabl?s said:


> I dislike Kamina, way too overrated for a character with so little screen time. His lasting effects in the series are commendable enough, tbf.
> 
> 
> Also HxH>OP, imo.



I can see that. If HxH didn't have the hiatuses I can see it being my favorite.


----------



## Narutossss (Apr 9, 2013)

Sabl?s said:


> Exept it isn't.


people will catch on soon enough.


----------



## Ari (Apr 9, 2013)

gurren lagann is 13 year old tier


----------



## Fujita (Apr 9, 2013)

Jay Kay said:


> I think HxH is a pretty weak manga, and the only reason it seems like quality to some people is because the author shoves every single thing he's trying to achieve down his readers' throats.
> Most authors are way more subtle, but since Togashi makes everything excruciatingly obvious, to the point I feel he's sometimes insulting people's intelligence, it seems like the manga is more than it actually is.



For the most part, I actually like the way Togashi uses his narration to stick you inside the heads of the characters. I can see how you might prefer a more subtle approach, showing character emotions and the like through their actions (I think Nihei does a pretty good job of this for Zoichi Kanoe in _Biomega_). But I don't think the lack of such extreme subtlety is bad writing. What it lacks in (for lack of a better word) finesse, it makes up for in depth. By having a character's thought processes laid out, you learn quite a lot about them and about what's going on during a conflict.

A lot of stuff about the evils of humanity was really heavy-handed towards the end of the CA arc, I'll give you that. (Since OP seems to be the topic of the conversation, I'll point out that the kids in PH were far worse in that regard. Oda usually makes his evils pretty blatant, and while it typically succeeds at pulling your heartstrings, in Caesar's case it was really overdone.)


----------



## Basilikos (Apr 9, 2013)

ITT:


----------



## Byrd (Apr 9, 2013)

Bruce Wayne said:


> Chapter 1 alone introduced introduced future plot points and themes.



Still generic shonen material


----------



## Renegade Knight (Apr 9, 2013)

Shoujo > > > seinen and shonen


----------



## Byrd (Apr 9, 2013)

Renegade Knight said:


> Shoujo > > > seinen and shonen



There are some good Shoujo.. I like X & Shoujo Kakumei Utena


----------



## Deathbringerpt (Apr 9, 2013)

This thread:


----------



## Sablés (Apr 9, 2013)

Sounds unpleasant


----------



## ZenithXAbyss (Apr 9, 2013)

Renegade Knight said:


> Shoujo > > > seinen and shonen


----------



## Kirito (Apr 9, 2013)

Renegade Knight said:


> Josei > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Shoujo > > > seinen and shonen



fact of life


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Apr 10, 2013)

I have yet to read HXH as i can't stand the art, i will probably just watch the anime and never read the manga.

Also i find sports manga retarded any never read them besides bowling King which my friend forced on me and its alright(only due to the comedy)


----------



## OS (Apr 10, 2013)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> I have yet to read HXH as i can't stand the art, i will probably just watch the anime and never read the manga.
> 
> Also i find sports manga retarded any never read them besides bowling King which my friend forced on me and its alright(only due to the comedy)



Slam Dunk is a good read.


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Apr 10, 2013)

Original Sin said:


> Slam Dunk is a good read.



So they say and im sure from a subjective stand point it is well written as are other sport based manga/anime, but again i find the concept retarded/unappealing/not entertaining so not going to read it.


----------



## Jagger (Apr 10, 2013)

I find Doflamingo's sig disturbing.


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Apr 10, 2013)

Jagger said:


> I find Doflamingo's sig disturbing.



You know you love it.


----------



## ZenithXAbyss (Apr 10, 2013)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> I have yet to read HXH as i can't stand the art, i will probably just watch the anime and never read the manga.
> 
> *Also i find sports manga retarded* any never read them besides bowling King which my friend forced on me and its alright(only due to the comedy)



That's your loss.


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Apr 10, 2013)

ZenithXAbyss said:


> That's your loss.



Hardly. Sports manga is just one tiny speck in the Otaku world i live in. It won't be missed and nothing is lost.

Unless your telling me Sports manga offers something that no other type of manga/Anime/fiction material provides? Besides the thrilling action of seeing sports played out in manga pages of course.


----------



## Gin (Apr 10, 2013)

I didn't care for TTGL (the one episode I watched) either.


----------



## Sablés (Apr 10, 2013)

Dio Brando sounds badass.


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Apr 10, 2013)

Sabl?s said:


> Dio Brando sounds badass.



He is bad ass.


----------



## Kirito (Apr 10, 2013)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> *Unless your telling me Sports manga offers something that no other type of manga/Anime/fiction material provides?* Besides the thrilling action of seeing sports played out in manga pages of course.



yeah, spirit of competition that people can relate to. not everyone can go to a fantasy world, but anyone can play sports. the only difference being, they can't play it on the level manga characters play it at.

slam dunk is legendary in japan for ushering in basketball, and it ultimately led to the first japanese player in the nba, yuta tabuse on the suns (10 day contract). it might not be a milestone to you, but to them it is.


----------



## Jagger (Apr 10, 2013)

I used to think FT was a top notch manga along with Naruto.


----------



## Sablés (Apr 10, 2013)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> He is bad ass.



Lol, I meant the name.

Of course Dio's a badass.


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Apr 10, 2013)

^I know im just adding for the poor people who do not know Dio is also a actual bad ass.


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Apr 10, 2013)

Kirito said:


> *yeah, spirit of competition that people can relate to. *not everyone can go to a fantasy world, but anyone can play sports. the only difference being, they can't play it on the level manga characters play it at.
> 
> slam dunk is legendary in japan for ushering in basketball, and it ultimately led to the first japanese player in the nba, yuta tabuse on the suns (10 day contract). it might not be a milestone to you, but to them it is.



There is spirit of competition in other manga/fiction that at least i can relate to can't really speak for others. Perhaps not to the level of sports manga which it being sports manga, it should have comparably higher levels of it since competition is what drives sports or at least thats what i have been told. I don't do sports. 

But if i want my feel of competition to which i don't need much i can find it else where. That and the fact i hate sports i would rather find it elsewhere lol. 

Also yes i know all about Slam Dunks popularity and influence in japan.


----------



## Imagine (Apr 10, 2013)

Fluttershy said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".).

Yeah, Itachi is my favorite Naruto character.


----------



## ZenithXAbyss (Apr 10, 2013)

Imagine said:


> You ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".).
> 
> Yeah, Itachi is my favorite Naruto character.



Nah, my guts telling me you like sauce more.
:uva


----------



## Imagine (Apr 10, 2013)

ZenithXAbyss said:


> Nah, my guts telling me you like sauce more.
> :uva


You like Sakura. 
:uva


----------



## Mizura (Apr 10, 2013)

I actually did read Slam Dunk from start to finish, and even found it awesome. Now:
- I usually hate sports manga.
- Never managed to finish a sports manga before Slam Dunk, and I don't think I've finished another one since.
- Never watched a whole basketball game in my life.

I didn't read Slam Dunk because I gave a rat's ass about basketball, I read it for the humor and the character then teamwork development. It's, in fact, Very funny: funny art, funny characters, funny situations. It has great pacing and paneling that reminds you of a great Shounen battle, except it also has some great teamwork development that's thoroughly missing in many Shounen (and not of the cheesy sort either).



> Josei > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Shoujo > > > seinen and shonen


Depends. There's an awful lot of junk in Shoujo, probably even more than in Shounen (so many crappy triangles with crappy dumb female protagonists with comparably way too elite love interests).  I liked Skip Beat, but it's going nowhere these days. I find it frustrating one chapter out of two now. The good Josei/Shoujo stories don't update often, for some reason, or even stopped (7Seeds, Kuragehime, Nana, Glass Mask, etc. There's this hilarious manga about a girl who's sister is the biggest b*tch and always picks on her, but everything she does ends up benefiting everyone so everybody thinks she's a saint and elite, what's it called again...).


----------



## Melodie (Apr 10, 2013)

Urouge said:


> I dont mind people not liking one piece but to say that its generic is quite stupid. i mean its not like the pirate theme has been overdone in the manga industry. I also dont remember other mangas with fruit that grants you powers. you cant really say that the characters are generic I mean look at kuma, moriah, doflamingo and BB to just name a few.just say you dont like but stop saying that its generic or at least give reasons why you think its generic.



I never said or implied that I do not like One Piece. Just because It is within the average range doesn't mean that I don't like it. Generic shonen is one of the most enjoyable things. Pirate theme? That's like saying Naruto is about ninjas. It doesn't have to be fruits, it just have to be a special thing that grants the user power. Those characters aren't really outstanding or complex. I do agree that they have 1 different trait though.

As far as I know I don't have to elaborate on my opinion. Which what this thread asks for.



Harard said:


> Your taste sucks.



Quality > Quantity. One Piece is pretty famous and it's good (Unlike Naruto and Bleach), so it's obvious that it will attract a lot of members. But that doesn't say that there aren't better shonens.


----------



## Kirito (Apr 10, 2013)

my opinion: kuroko no basket is a copycat manga that gets elements from other famous manga such as slam dunk and rurouni kenshin. the only difference is that it's got lots of hooks (tons of bishies for girls, basketball for guys). i didn't like their last basketball match. it was copied direct from sakuragi's last game. kuroko's flashback today reminds me of kenshin's past when they talked about it before jinchuu.



Mizura said:


> Depends. There's an awful lot of junk in Shoujo, probably even more than in Shounen (so many crappy triangles with crappy dumb female protagonists with comparably way too elite love interests).  I liked Skip Beat, but it's going nowhere these days. I find it frustrating one chapter out of two now. The good Josei/Shoujo stories don't update often, for some reason, or even stopped (7Seeds, Kuragehime, Nana, Glass Mask, etc. *There's this hilarious manga about a girl who's sister is the biggest b*tch and always picks on her, but everything she does ends up benefiting everyone so everybody thinks she's a saint and elite*, what's it called again...).



lots of popular shojo end up mere shells of what they were before. it's the reason why i've dropped lots of them in the middle (kimi no todoke, kaichou wa maid sama, etc). why couldn't they just be interesting like special A? end where the plotlines end, don't cash in on your popularity and try take advantage.

i loved 7seeds. maybe time constraints? anyway that bold sounds familiar


----------



## Stannis (Apr 10, 2013)

Imagine said:


> You ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".).
> 
> Yeah, Itachi is my favorite Naruto character.




*Spoiler*: __


----------



## Imagine (Apr 10, 2013)

**


----------



## Nighty the Mighty (Apr 10, 2013)

Torafarugo Ro said:


> Even Part 1 Naruto wasn't as good as Part 1 One Piece.
> 
> Water 7 truly stomps anything in Part 1 Naruto. An I'll glady debate that, and prove you wrong.  That shits hilarious.
> 
> ...



It's over-rated, It's good but all of the people calling it "best manga evar!" or anything are deluding themselves.

No whining here. 

Edit: The bolded is horseshit.

Twilight is a highly successful book series yet it's probably one of the worst things I've ever read.


----------



## Stannis (Apr 10, 2013)

twilight is teh best movie evar.


----------



## Kirito (Apr 10, 2013)

Nightbringer said:


> It's over-rated, It's good but all of the people calling it "best manga evar!" or anything are deluding themselves.
> 
> No whining here.
> 
> ...



you know, 10 years into the future people are gonna say the big 3 are legendary for ushering in a new blood of shonen etc etc. maybe even fairy tail too.

schoolboy 1: "guys i heard fairy tail was a perennial contender to one piece's crown"
schoolboy 2: "yeah my uncle told me it was big 3 level"
schoolboy 1: "man what wouldn't i have given to live in the big 3 era"
schoolboy 2: "yeah current manga are shit"

lots of people hated elvis for selling millions playing rock when rock wasn't that big back in the day. now he's the king of rock and his music is suddenly good


----------



## Stannis (Apr 10, 2013)

Kirito said:


> schoolboy 1: "guys i heard fairy tail was a perennial contender to one piece's crown"
> schoolboy 2: "yeah my uncle told me it was big 3 level"



schoolboy 3 "my son": your uncle was a ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".).


----------



## Imagine (Apr 10, 2013)

Boshi said:


> schoolboy 3 "my son": your uncle was a ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".).


Such an evil child.


----------



## Powerful Lord (Apr 10, 2013)

Kirito said:


> you know, 10 years into the future people are gonna say the big 3 are legendary for ushering in a new blood of shonen etc etc. maybe even fairy tail too.
> 
> schoolboy 1: "guys i heard fairy tail was a perennial contender to one piece's crown"
> schoolboy 2: "yeah my uncle told me it was big 3 level"
> ...



So true, but Fairy Tail's probably going to be forgotten, the same way yaiba was.


----------



## Narutossss (Apr 10, 2013)

yaiba                    ?


----------



## Black Leg Sanji (Apr 10, 2013)

Urouge said:


> it hasnt really degraded. its the same as it was before but its just that some people only care about power levels and big ass explosions. the plot is advancing nicely and nearly all the big players have been introduced. its still as good as it was in part 1 imo





Aldric said:


> I think you could argue that the post timeskip OP arcs have been weak
> 
> Fishman Island was definitely a huge letdown, and Punk Hazard was so so
> 
> ...



LolKenjixInfinity

Okay, serious

Part 1 wasnt the same in quality after Shabondy:

> Amazon Lily was mediocre

> Impel Down was decent

> Marineford started out awesome but became a drawnout clusterfuck after Luffy entered the scene

Comeatme.jpg


----------



## steveht93 (Apr 10, 2013)

Melodie said:


> Hmm..
> 
> I find Josei/Shojo anime to be superior to Shounen/Seinen in-general [although there are Shounens and Seinens that are better than a lot of the josei/shojo mangas that I read].
> One piece is a generic shouen, and it's average at best.
> ...



Magi is indeed my favourite shounen atm. I find myself anticipating its release more than other mangas I read. 

With a cast of very likable characters,good world build,and an interesting plot that is just starting to unfold,really you can't go wrong with magi.


----------



## MrCinos (Apr 10, 2013)

Killerqueen said:


> - Level E was one of the best manga Togashi ever made


Agreed.

I dropped HxH with the speed of light soon after insect arc started: it dissapointed me so much that I have zero interest in picking up the series again. Also dropped YYH after slogging through a couple of volumes while I wished that *Level E* was a longer series.


----------



## Cheeky (Apr 10, 2013)

Fishman Island was alright. 

Hody was a good villain.

I fucking detest power levels and tiers. Retarded nonsense.


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Apr 10, 2013)

A week without toriko caused me great pain, can't wait for the next chapter.

Secret: Tommyrod vs Sani was the best fight in weekly shounen I have read since god knows when.


----------



## Kirito (Apr 10, 2013)

Mizura said:


> I read Special A till the end, but I did get quite fed-up in the end of the girl never winning. D: Oh well.



i didn't like the whole overused USA plot either, but hey.



Mizura said:


> The sister is an office lady and nabbed herself a successful career man. She's selfish and mean-spirited but everything she does ends up doing overall good, so apart from her family, everybody is fooled. Incidents include:
> 
> Pepper sprayed dogs that were barking at her. It turned out that those dogs were so noisy they prevented the neighbors from sleeping, so they all thanked her.
> Beat up a guy she found rude. He later turned out to be a criminal. She got awarded.
> ...



really _really_ sounds familiar. i'll be scouring mangafox for the next few days.



Mizura said:


> Worse, they try to find successful formulas and copy them, which only results in shallow stories and characters. I think this is probably compounded by publishers, who don't take enough risks and perhaps promote safe formulas.



there are some new manga that somehow break through with new formulas but people end up not appreciating: Double Arts. there are also some new manga that take cliches and spin new things from them: TWGOK. there are even more manga that take cliches and execute them correctly: FMA, Negima (tho akamatsu kinda forgot about power inflation). IMO these kinds of authors are the same type of old gen authors: they get inspiration from outside. that's why i still hold hope for many others.



Mizura said:


> This is especially blatant with Shoujo manga (the majority of bad ones). You have:
> - Female protagonist: incredibly dumb, clumsy, loud, with supposedly below-average looks.
> - Two male love interests: one super smart elite and one bad boy. Usually, one with light-coloured hair and one with dark-coloured hair.



and bad boy usually wins because they're misunderstood and female protagonist understands him more 

yeah i getcha. and girls say they always choose mr. nice guy IRL when their choice in fictional guys say otherwise. i'm not generalizing conclusively though, just an observation.



Mizura said:


> Lots of Shounen similarly follow used formulas, but they tend to be cancelled pretty quickly. Magico is a good example of this: it had a novel and interesting concept, actually, but all the characters were walking role-fillers and stereotypes.  Another example is the U.S. comic book scene, it used to be more diverse but somehow became dominated by solely the superhero genre *(so much so that they never thought of a comic genre for girls, for example)*.



europe is actually ahead in that regard, like france. they just turn out terrible though IMO. witch, winx club, 6teen. totally spies was decent. US tried to make MLP but instead of getting their target audience they got bronies.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Apr 10, 2013)

I watched winx club and totally spies..(don't judge me) I can watch what I want.

What's MLP stand for?


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## Melodie (Apr 10, 2013)

My Little Ponies.


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## Mizura (Apr 10, 2013)

Kirito said:


> really _really_ sounds familiar. i'll be scouring mangafox for the next few days.


Tell me if you find it! I can't. 

Never heard of Double Arts. Gotta check it out. FMA's author is definitely one of those who incorporated her own experiences, the equivalent exchange concept was apparently inspired by her farm work, and she interviewed war veterans, so she doesn't treat the minor soldiers as mindless disposable fodder.

Oh, and more on topic for secrets: I read TWGOK too. xD In fact, I don't think I've read another manga in the same style. It's quite original in a ways, and so funny that I can't even feel offended by it (even though I'm a girl. Then again, the series makes fun of Keima way more than the girls).



> and bad boy usually wins because they're misunderstood and female protagonist understands him more


It's so frustrating that I've stopped reading that style of Shoujo stories. "Go with the nice guy! Please! The bad boy will become an abusing husband and cheat on you while you're pregnant!"



> europe is actually ahead in that regard, like france. they just turn out terrible though IMO. witch, winx club, 6teen. totally spies was decent.


Europe has some nice BD though. I grew up reading classics like Asterix & Obelix, Tintin and such. When I was in France there were some nice new ones such as Enki Bilal's comics and B?telgeuse. European comics nowadays don't get exported much though. Freaks' Squeele can be found online, it's pretty entertaining.



> US tried to make MLP but instead of getting their target audience they got bronies.


I discovered the fanworks before I discovered the series. At some other forum a person was asking someone to draw a scene for a fanfic of MLP, and I was like "MLP? What's that?" "My Little Ponies." "Didn't I watch that when I was 5?" Controversy (?): I think MLP fanworks are more enjoyable than the series. Maaan, those parody comics and videos. Awesome fan-made music too, some completely original.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Apr 10, 2013)

Melodie said:


> My Little Ponies.



oh my sisters watch that show.


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## Byrd (Apr 10, 2013)

People who say OP is the best manga ever are known as retards..

Anyway, most Battle Shonen that I read are very weak in plot structure and have one dimensional character.

I don't think I read a Battle Shonen that just blew me away with it's plot and characterization


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Apr 10, 2013)

^Thats cause its a battle shonen not To kill a mockingbird.

Its not suppose to amaze you with its Plot structure and characters. Its all just set up for the next big brawl.


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## Byrd (Apr 10, 2013)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> ^Thats cause its a battle shonen not To kill a mockingbird.
> 
> Its not suppose to amaze you with its Plot structure and characters. Its all just set up for the next big brawl.



and thats why they tend to suck


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## Mizura (Apr 10, 2013)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> ^Thats cause its a battle shonen not To kill a mockingbird.
> 
> Its not suppose to amaze you with its Plot structure and characters. Its all just set up for the next big brawl.


But you see, it's that type of thinking that's preventing Japanese Shounen manga from becoming even better. Tower of God isn't perfect: the art could be better, the battles aren't the best, but the reason many of us like it is that on top of being a shounen-like series, it adds many intertwining and clashing plots and puzzles everywhere. It's basically Shounen meets Liar Game. Nothing should have prevented more Japanese Shounen from having that level of writing as well.

But they seem to be stuck in a "how do I set up the next big battle?" mentality.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Apr 10, 2013)

Byrdman said:


> and thats why they tend to suck



Not everyone needs outstanding Plot structure and or characters to be entertained. Fairy tail would be a good example its very popular and its not cause of the Plot. 

Back in the day kids kicked around cans and had a hell of a time just saying.



Mizura said:


> But you see, it's that type of thinking that's preventing Japanese Shounen manga from becoming even better. Tower of God isn't perfect: the art could be better, the battles aren't the best, but the reason many of us like it is that on top of being a shounen-like series, it adds many intertwining and clashing plots and puzzles everywhere. It's basically Shounen meets Liar Game. Nothing should have prevented more Japanese Shounen from having that level of writing as well.



The Manga Industry is just that a Industry. It goes with the market. Battle manga sells so thats what manga artist are going to focus on, aka give the Market(People) what they want. For the most part anyway. 

And Tower of God is not a Battle Manga/Web comic(what ever) so its going to have more plot focus, if you want more plot/character focus look for a manga/manwha whose plot is not revolved around fighting is all im saying.   

Not every manga can be a jack of all trades, nor do the manga artist and or consumers want them to be. Hence of course why there are different types of manga to begin with. If you go to watch the new movie Evil dead and expect to see awesome character development, and story progression you are a idot and should be disappointed. 

And just to clarify as some people lack reading comprehension. Im not saying Battle manga can not have well developed characters and or plot. I'm saying its called Battle Manga for a reason.


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## Byrd (Apr 10, 2013)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Not everyone needs outstanding Plot structure and or characters to be entertained. Fairy tail would be a good example its very popular and its not cause of the Plot.
> 
> Back in the day kids kicked around cans and had a hell of a time just saying.



That's true Battle Shonen does what it does best and is marketed primarily young children hence the watered down plot structure and simple characters. Some one who has some understanding on the fundamentals of reading and what is a good read might feel like they are lacking


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## Kirito (Apr 10, 2013)

Byrdman said:


> That's true Battle Shonen does what it does best and is marketed primarily young children hence the watered down plot structure and simple characters. Some one who has some understanding on the fundamentals of reading and what is a good read might feel like they are lacking



i think you're being too overcritical of battle shonen

if a series was made for fun and has been successful for over 40 years and counting using only a linear plot easily understood by everyone, does that mean that it sucks and its overrated?

your opinion about battle shonen being not what it is or can be would only apply to those series that try too hard to be complicated, but in the way shoot themselves in the foot trying to disentangle themselves out of their logic



Mizura said:


> Oh, and more on topic for secrets: I read TWGOK too. xD In fact, I don't think I've read another manga in the same style. It's quite original in a ways, and so funny that I can't even feel offended by it (even though I'm a girl. Then again, the series makes fun of Keima way more than the girls).



you should read gintama too if that's the case. similar type of humor different ways of going about it.



Mizura said:


> It's so frustrating that I've stopped reading that style of Shoujo stories. "Go with the nice guy! Please! The bad boy will become an abusing husband and cheat on you while you're pregnant!"



i remember reading this line from a shojo: "what is a relationship without any spice?" it was the justification of a main girl who went out with the class punk, when the honor student guy was so much better. i facepalmed so hard i dropped it. 



Mizura said:


> Europe has some nice BD though. I grew up reading classics like Asterix & Obelix, Tintin and such. When I was in France there were some nice new ones such as Enki Bilal's comics and B?telgeuse. European comics nowadays don't get exported much though. Freaks' Squeele can be found online, it's pretty entertaining.



i dunno about freaks squeele. there's something squicky about those kinds of works. i can't judge it entirely though, i haven't read a chapter of it, but i've definitely heard of it.


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## Powerful Lord (Apr 10, 2013)

I grew up reading European and American Comics, that includes Lucky Luke, Asterix, Batman, etc.

And i think shonens are being underrated here, yes, sometimes they get dumb due to focusing too much on fights but they're actually very good stories, Naruto Part 1, One Piece, Hunter X Hunter, those three feature some good storytelling when they want to, and offer a rich and diverse universe.

Their plot's not worse than any good blockbuster, Star Wars, Marvel and DC Comics in general, etc.


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## B Rabbit (Apr 10, 2013)

Nightbringer said:


> It's over-rated, It's good but all of the people calling it "best manga evar!" or anything are deluding themselves.
> 
> No whining here.
> 
> ...



An Twilight has every right to be, because it sells so much. I never said the series is good because of sells. I just said it has every right to be hyped with the sells it gets.


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## Byrd (Apr 10, 2013)

Kirito said:


> i think you're being too overcritical of battle shonen
> 
> if a series was made for fun and has been successful for over 40 years and counting using only a linear plot easily understood by everyone, does that mean that it sucks and its overrated?
> 
> your opinion about battle shonen being not what it is or can be would only apply to those series that try too hard to be complicated, but in the way shoot themselves in the foot trying to disentangle themselves out of their logic



maybe so... I just feel when I read battle shonen.. it usually lacks a certain element and that many of the plot structures are weak... 

and yes Freak Squeele is awesome and hilarious... been trying to get people to read it for awhile


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## Mizura (Apr 10, 2013)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> The Manga Industry is just that a Industry. It goes with the market. Battle manga sells so thats what manga artist are going to focus on, aka give the Market(People) what they want. For the most part anyway.


Manga sales in Japan have been falling year on year for several years now, and Japan's population is getting older. Obviously the industry is doing something wrong. I've actually once read an interesting article about the movie Twilight and the film industry: the film industry is basically male-dominated and targeted at young males, with the female segment very much neglected (with those male movie executives somehow assuming that girls don't watch big movies as much).

Then Twilight was made and everybody was someone surprised at its success. Girls can spend big bucks at the movies, who knew? Now, notice that Twilight is sh*t. How much profit would the industry be making if it were churning out more Quality movies aimed at the female demographics?

Same with the U.S. comic industry. It assumed that girls don't read comics. Then Shoujo comics flooded the U.S., even though everything was in black and white, you had to read from right to left, there were lots of culturally unfamiliar terms and objects etc. The cartoon industry assumed that boys only watched action cartoons. Everybody was left scratching their heads when it turned out that males enjoyed something like My Little Pony.

Battle Shounen certainly are a successful category, but they shouldn't be the only successful category. It is up to the industry to find new niches and develop them. In the Shoujo/josei category, Nana for example went for MUCH better writing (character portrayal/relationships/narrative/etc.) than the average Shoujo, and it had runaway success to reward it. Just because something's the norm in the industry (crappy Shoujo being an example), it doesn't mean the audience isn't craving something more. This is especially true for all those generations who grew up reading manga. They're older and more experienced now, probably looking for manga of better writing, but the manga industry didn't keep up with them for some reason.



> And Tower of God is not a Battle Manga/Web comic(what ever) so its going to have more plot focus, if you want more plot/character focus look for a manga/manwha whose plot is not revolved around fighting is all im saying.


Not exactly. Naruto/One Piece/Bleach (okay, maybe not Bleach) are not strict battle manga either, they're adventure manga. Fighting is just Part of an adventure manga. The industry in Japan has mistaken the part for the whole. That's what I'm saying. Take Naruto, it could have been an awesome adventure manga, but for the first several arcs of Part 2, we got a succession of battles all right, but did that really compensate for the lack of plot writing? In the end those succession of battles ended up feeling old.


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## OS (Apr 10, 2013)

One Piece is an adventure manga. I'm not sure Bleach comes even near adventure. Naruto is somewhat adventure. It's mainly quests.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Apr 10, 2013)

Mizura said:


> Manga sales in Japan have been falling year on year for several years now, and Japan's population is getting older. Obviously the industry is doing something wrong. I've actually once read an interesting article about the movie Twilight and the film industry: the film industry is basically male-dominated and targeted at young males, with the female segment very much neglected (with those male movie executives somehow assuming that girls don't watch big movies as much).
> 
> Then Twilight was made and everybody was someone surprised at its success. Girls can spend big bucks at the movies, who knew? Now, notice that Twilight is sh*t. How much profit would the industry be making if it were churning out more Quality movies aimed at the female demographics?
> 
> ...



I agree with most of what you said but something struck me. 



> Everybody was left scratching their heads when it turned out that males enjoyed something like My Little Pony.



WTF How anyone besides little kids let alone males like MLP is beyond me.

Not saying its garbage but i have watched some episodes with my sisters, and i don't see how it would be appealing to males.

Anyway I think the sales are going down mostly because of the internet why pay hundreds of dollars for all the manga you want to read when you can have it for free lol and just buy some volumes of your fav manga. That and the current Manga market fails at pushing anything besides the typical stuff. If instead of advertising Toriko so much(which i love) maybe that should focus on other new types of manga and try to get them popular.

But of course thats not going to happen.


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## Mizura (Apr 10, 2013)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> WTF How anyone besides little kids let alone males like MLP is beyond me.


You won't get it if you've only watched a few episodes. It has good and bad episodes. The appealing part, however, is not necessarily the ponies themselves (though the pony cast is a surprisingly diverse and well-balanced mix), but an overall attitude of the show. The core of the show is about working out issues with your friends, recognizing one's personality faults and trying to become a better person. It also has some more adult references mixed in that can be easy to miss unless you pay attention. I've once read an interesting commentary on the episode Art of the Dress, apparently that episode resonates particularly with people working in the creative industry because it smartly portrays every of the ponies as one of the "difficult to deal with" types of clients that everyone in the creative industry knows painfully well. (said commentary goes on to gush on how the seemingly snobbish Rarity is actually a true, passionate artist and a role-model for young girls in the form of a successful and very hard-working entrepreneur, able to bring out her potential even in a little backwater village).

It's not necessarily a work of high literature, but with the media shoving gore and violence down male audience throats all the time, I could see why they'd find messages such as "chill out with your friends, be honest with them, forgive their and your own faults, enjoy their differences and try to become a better, kinder and more stress-free person" to be appealing. It deals a lot with daily, inter-personal relationships. It's not groundbreaking philosophy, it's just something that the current media industry rarely bothers selling to male audiences, and is, in fact, a much more mature message than most Shounen manga are offering. One episode reminded me of a book I once read, "Don't Sweat the Small Stuff", and although that isn't the most influential book in my life, the lessons in it did teach me how to cut stress in my life by a good chunk, and here you had something similar in cartoon form.



> Anyway I think the sales are going down mostly because of the internet why pay hundreds of dollars for all the manga you want to read when you can have it for free lol and just buy some volumes of your fav manga.


Studies have shown that pirates actually spend more on their entertainment budget that non-pirates. Game of Thrones is one of the most pirated series ever, but it has record DVD sales as well. People will buy something if they think it's worth buying.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Apr 11, 2013)

^ I take it you enjoy MLP. 

I watch adventure time that show is my shit, but thats about it in terms of cartoons for kids.


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## Basilikos (Apr 11, 2013)

Byrdman said:


> maybe so... I just feel when I read battle shonen.. it usually lacks a certain element and that many of the plot structures are weak...


Which shounen series do you have in mind when you say that?

Moreover, what makes their plot structures weak in your opinion?


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## Byrd (Apr 11, 2013)

Basilikos said:


> Which shounen series do you have in mind when you say that?
> 
> Moreover, what makes their plot structures weak in your opinion?



Bleach, Naruto, Anagle Mole, One Piece, Beelzebub, FT, Toriko, Cerberus, Tokyo ESP, Tripeace, Magico and some more..

basically how simple their characters are, a lot of them fall within the generic stereotype similar to how JRPGs go... 

The plot of a lot of these just feels simple.... i usually look for what type of themes are presented in a lot of these mangas.. sometimes they can pull if off but a lot of the times... they have a disappointing execution


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## Mizura (Apr 11, 2013)

You read all that (including some really bad ones) but skipped FMA? Why? 
It may not blow you away with its characterization, but skipping FMA for some of the stuff in your list sounds like torturing youself. :S


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## Black Leg Sanji (Apr 11, 2013)

Byrdman said:


> One Piece



Wait what

I thought you were a OP-tard 



Mizura said:


> You read all that (including some really bad ones) but skipped FMA? Why?
> It may not blow you away with its characterization, but skipping FMA for some of the stuff in your list sounds like torturing youself. :S



Probably because FMAs plot is great compared to the others in that list


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## Viper (Apr 11, 2013)

Torafarugo Ro said:


> This is neither controversial or a secret.



Then I don't really have a secret. I've already said that JJBA characters like cock, and that HxH is overrated.

Lost interest in Bleach and Nardo, only enjoy chapters during a fight.

And OP is the best, shits on the other shonen.


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## Narutossss (Apr 11, 2013)

lol right now I'd rather read fucking bleach than one piece................ that's saying something.


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## Mizura (Apr 11, 2013)

Black Leg Sanji said:


> Probably because FMAs plot is great compared to the others in that list


Yeah, but he said this earlier:



> Anyway, most Battle Shonen that I read are very weak in plot structure and have one dimensional character.
> 
> I don't think I read a Battle Shonen that just blew me away with it's plot and characterization


So it sounds like he either didn't read FMA, or wasn't too impressed with it either. If it's the latter, then never mind. If it's the former (he read some awful series but skipped one of the rare good ones), it'd kind of sad.


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## Byrd (Apr 11, 2013)

Black Leg Sanji said:


> Wait what
> 
> I thought you were a OP-tard
> 
> ...



I like OP and i enjoy it as well but come on, i'm not blind, it has many flaws   



> So it sounds like he either didn't read FMA, or wasn't too impressed with it either. If it's the latter, then never mind. If it's the former (he read some awful series but skipped one of the rare good ones), it'd kind of sad



Thats why I said most, there are exceptions to this


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## Basilikos (Apr 11, 2013)

Byrdman said:


> Bleach, Naruto, Anagle Mole, One Piece, Beelzebub, FT, Toriko, Cerberus, Tokyo ESP, Tripeace, Magico and some more..
> 
> basically how simple their characters are, a lot of them fall within the generic stereotype similar to how JRPGs go...
> 
> The plot of a lot of these just feels simple.... i usually look for what type of themes are presented in a lot of these mangas.. sometimes they can pull if off but a lot of the times... they have a disappointing execution


The only series from the listing that I follow is Toriko so I'll comment on that.

It should have been clear fairly early on that Toriko isn't a manga that is striving to have a super deep plot and complicated characters. Is that to say that the plot and characters are poorly done? I would say no. For instance, I personally find Zebra to be an amusing and badass character. But just because he's not an ultra complex character doesn't mean he isn't likeable. The plot is very straightforward and sometimes the goal of the Bishokukai organization seems vaguely defined. Still, the plot is overall decent, coherent, and lacks the asspulls that many other shounen titles use to give the characters victories.

The real appeal of Toriko lies in its incredible worldbuilding, imagination, adventure, and creativity. The characters while fairly straightforward are nevertheless fun, quirky, and have their own motivations and goals. Lastly, Toriko excels at making an epic, exciting mood and awesome fights, especially in the current arc the manga is in.


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## Byrd (Apr 11, 2013)

Well you can say, it serves it purpose...


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## B Rabbit (Apr 11, 2013)

Any series I have, I can name you several bad things about it. 

One Piece, JJBA, Berserk, YYH, Slam Dunk.


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## Byrd (Apr 11, 2013)

Every piece of work has it flaws..


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## ISeeVoices (Apr 11, 2013)

As far as they entertain me Naruto > Bleach > One Piece (> Bleach occasionly)

I find part 2 of Naruto better than part 1(except for the lee vs garra. that s**t was epic)

I still recommand people to read Berserk even though it's been over an year (maybe 2) since i saw a chapter (gotta have some chapters piled up before i catch up)

Although entertaining Veritas was overrated imo

I couldn't catch up/finish some of the popular mangas out there simply because they bore me too much : Fairy Tale(≃60) , Magi(≃50) , Jojo (droped it on the 3rd story i think) , Lucifer and the Biscuit Hammer(there was a guy with a horse when i droped it) ,Toriko (puffer fish arc or something like that). I might give them a second chance but the odds aren't that good

Ohh and i wish The Breaker could return to it's bi-weekly release .


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## OtherGalaxy (Apr 11, 2013)

Hm
Shin Angyo Onshi's gaiden is really adding a lot to it 
I'm wondering at this point if it was moreso me being the issue with SAO and not the story itself


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## Byrd (Apr 11, 2013)

What they are adding?


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## OtherGalaxy (Apr 11, 2013)

They added a bit more about Mong Ryong and Sando
As well as Won Sul's backstory with some additional info on the Demons

Pretty good actually, only halfway through it at the moment


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## Viper (Apr 11, 2013)

Narutossss said:


> lol right now I'd rather read fucking bleach than one piece................ that's saying something.



Depends on what you like or if you understand the Yonkou concept. Characters that have been hyped up for ages finally entering the scene, rules between pirates such as organized alliances, overthrowing, pursuit, and power struggle. This is all going on right now in OP. Shit there might even be a huge battle between the Marines including a new admiral and a few pirates. 

Most of this stuff should interest anyone who has gained interest over the overarching great powers such as the Yonkou, the Shichibukai, and the Marines. Hell even the revolutionaries might be getting into the mix. A shit load of interesting things are going on right now yet people somehow say "OP is boring atm" I'm just like... "okay bro"

Plus it's a Doflamingo arc, you gotta love Doflamingo.


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## JoJo (Apr 12, 2013)

Viper said:


> Then I don't really have a secret. I've already said that JJBA characters like cock, and that HxH is overrated.
> 
> Lost interest in Bleach and Nardo, only enjoy chapters during a fight.
> 
> And OP is the best, shits on the other shonen.



I think Viper is a homophobe?


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## MrCinos (Apr 12, 2013)

I anticipate Bleach chapters much more than One Piece chapters (starting from Yammy=0 reveal). SL actually contributed to this with it being hilarious at the beginning of EDIT era where each new chapter could bring many additional lulz. Speaking of HST sections, even current stagnated SL is much better than KL and OL combined. OL especially (given a quality source) sickens me with all these power level/tiers threads. 


Still, overall I find OP to be one of the best shounens while Bleach isn't even in my top 30 among only shounens. Go figure.


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## Narutossss (Apr 12, 2013)

Viper said:


> Depends on what you like or if you understand the Yonkou concept. Characters that have been hyped up for ages finally entering the scene, rules between pirates such as organized alliances, overthrowing, pursuit, and power struggle. This is all going on right now in OP. Shit there might even be a huge battle between the Marines including a new admiral and a few pirates.
> 
> Most of this stuff should interest anyone who has gained interest over the overarching great powers such as the Yonkou, the Shichibukai, and the Marines. Hell even the revolutionaries might be getting into the mix. A shit load of interesting things are going on right now yet people somehow say "OP is boring atm" I'm just like... "okay bro"
> 
> Plus it's a Doflamingo arc, you gotta love Doflamingo.



I don't know man, one piece hasn't been the same since fishman island. I honestly don't think I'm ready to commit to it again. I'm gonna wait it out a few more arcs to see if it picks up again.


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## Kirito (Apr 12, 2013)

Narutossss said:


> I don't know man, *one piece hasn't been the same since fishman island.* I honestly don't think I'm ready to commit to it again. I'm gonna wait it out a few more arcs to see if it picks up again.





oh you


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## Imagine (Apr 12, 2013)

Gotta love that sentence.


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## Powerful Lord (Apr 12, 2013)

Viper said:


> Depends on what you like or if you understand the Yonkou concept. Characters that have been hyped up for ages finally entering the scene, rules between pirates such as organized alliances, overthrowing, pursuit, and power struggle. This is all going on right now in OP. Shit there might even be a huge battle between the Marines including a new admiral and a few pirates.
> 
> Most of this stuff should interest anyone who has gained interest over the overarching great powers such as the Yonkou, the Shichibukai, and the Marines. Hell even the revolutionaries might be getting into the mix. A shit load of interesting things are going on right now yet people somehow say "OP is boring atm" I'm just like... "okay bro"
> 
> *Plus it's a Doflamingo arc, you gotta love Doflamingo*.



Actually, none of the people i know that read One Piece don't care about Doflamingo, 2 of them even dislike him. I anticipate One piece chapters more every week because they allways have something going on, my problem with Bleach is the incredibly slow pace.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Apr 12, 2013)

If someone dislikes Doflmaingo they need help one of the best characters in the manga.


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## Powerful Lord (Apr 26, 2013)

It all comes down to tastes, some don't like him, be it for his design, or for his personality, or for his role in the story until now, tastes are completelly subjective, you don't need to like a certain character just because he's well written. Tonpa from Hunter X Hunter is well written but i hate him a lot.

Marineford was one of the best war battle arcs in manga i've seen, a good amount of progression was divided into each chapter and we had a nice amount of battlefied strategy.


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## OS (Apr 26, 2013)

500 posts, suckas


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## Gain (Aug 19, 2013)

I like Inuyasha, both the manga and its adaption

no i can't really justify it convincingly


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## p-lou (Aug 19, 2013)

i agree gain

well, i just don't think it's as bad as people try to make it


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## Gain (Aug 19, 2013)

Well, I'm not necessarily saying it's good. It does drag like crazy, gets repetitive and stuff, but I still just...... liked it. idk y


i'll throw out a few more o-pen-e-uns

hunter x hunter is about as polished as a bored art students sketchbook and should be revered about as much

contrary to how i used to look at it, berserk has unappealing character designs imo

Yokohama Kaidashi Kikou is probably the best manga released

Cross Game > Touch


going to go eat my lentils now


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## OS (Aug 19, 2013)

This was a good thread.


----------



## manidk (Aug 19, 2013)

Bleach is the best manga in the HST.

I liked KHR until Bermuda went into his true form.

I did not really care for the Green Island arc in HxH.

Soul Eater's ending wasn't _terrible_.


----------



## p-lou (Aug 20, 2013)

Kate Nash said:


> Well, I'm not necessarily saying it's good. It does drag like crazy, gets repetitive and stuff, but I still just...... liked it. idk y



it's biggest fault is that it's too long.  which is true of 99% of manga.  so i can't hold that against it too much.

it's appeal comes from having a writer that knows what she's doing building a main cast, having their interactions be relatable and understandable, and mostly being fun to be around.  and she really likes to be inspired by and draw the traditional japanese monsters and demons, and i think it shows.

and i've said it before but damn that love triangle.




> i'll throw out a few more o-pen-e-uns
> 
> hunter x hunter is about as polished as a bored art students sketchbook and should be revered about as much



hunter x boring



> Yokohama Kaidashi Kikou is probably the best manga released



disagree but won't argue because there's a legit case to be made



> Cross Game > Touch



eat a dick



> going to go eat my lentils now



close enough


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Aug 20, 2013)

Rave Master>Fairy tail.

Naruto and Bleach are Subpar. 

One piece is overrated. 

HDSK has to much fan service.

The last two chapters of ToG were decent. 

Tog>Noblesee>GoH(Get over it)

Feng Shen Ji is top tier. 

Oh wait....I was suppose to say controversial stuff my bad.


----------



## Sablés (Aug 20, 2013)

Mango > Comics

oh wait, that's not controversial.


----------



## Gin (Aug 20, 2013)

Sabl?s said:


> Mango > Comics
> 
> oh wait, that's not controversial.


nope, just correct :ignoramus


----------



## OS (Aug 20, 2013)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Rave Master>Fairy tail.
> 
> Naruto and Bleach are Subpar.
> 
> ...


No, fuck you.


Frost said:


> nope, just correct :ignoramus


I gotta say mang. That Esdese set is top tier:ingaramus

Too bad she deserves a horrible death:ignoramus


----------



## Melodie (Aug 20, 2013)

That Esdese set.

Another controversial opinion, because Necro:

Kubera is just as good as ToG, if not better.
Magi's quality remains unchanged. that raw chapter spoiler supports this.


----------



## Blαck (Aug 20, 2013)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Rave Master>Fairy tail.
> 
> One piece is overrated.
> 
> HDSK has too much fan service.



Wut? 


> Feng Shen Ji is top tier.



At least we agree on this part :ignoramus


----------



## Gin (Aug 20, 2013)

Original Sin said:


> I gotta say mang. That Esdese set is top tier:ingaramus


It's cured my setwhoring ways.



Original Sin said:


> Too bad she deserves a horrible death:ingaramus




Not happening, she'll either survive the manga and live a blissful life in a newly overthrown Empire with Tatsumi, or die a glorious death by his side.


----------



## kanpyo7 (Aug 20, 2013)

I find FMA (both of them) incredibly overrated it's not _bad_ but it's not amazing either. I'd put it only slightly above Soul Eater.

I loved Bobobo-bobo-bobo (even Shinsetsu). Source of my avy btw

I think OP is overrated but still a very good series regardless, while I find Naruto to be incredibly underrated. Most people would have you believe it's the worst manga ever, while I actually think it's better than damn near every other Shonen ever made.

Oh, and also I thought Avatar Season 3 was a trainwreck.


----------



## OmniOmega (Aug 20, 2013)

I think NGE is trash and TTGL is decent if anything


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (Aug 20, 2013)

Sabl?s said:


> Mango > Comics








Original Sin said:


> This was a good thread.


----------



## Es (Aug 20, 2013)

I concur with the Ponyfucker. There really is no fucking difference between comics and Manga


OmniOmega said:


> I think NGE is trash and TTGL is decent if anything




How is this controversial?


----------



## MrCinos (Aug 20, 2013)

YYH is a mediocre series.

HxH is the single most overrated manga on NF. Even in its prime, while being pretty good, it wasn't among the best shounens IMO. 

Also, Bastard!! is 7/10 at best as well. Though I dropped it after 8-9-ish volumes when the next big arc started, just couldn't muster motivation to read further.

Bleach is the most interesting HST series to me currently (but overall, I still find OP to be much, much superior).

Knight Run: easily the best web manga (available in English).


----------



## x5exotic (Aug 20, 2013)

Enies lobby is one of the worst arcs in history of manga. And the manga overall is really generic and uncreative, dont see how it's any different from fairy tail anymore. 

Soul society was as shitty as fullbringer.

Seinen is 90% of the time less mature than shonen, relying solely on blood and gore and shallow themes.

Togashi inspired the shonen genre far more then anyone else's mere 'references and throwbacks', including akira 

Realistic art is completely dumb, dude it's black and white try all you want it's still not gonna impress me as someone's random blog photo... Be creative.

Kubo is much better than Oda; both dish out mediocre storylines, the latter takes 10 times longer while the former writes it spontaneously.


----------



## stream (Aug 20, 2013)

What I don't really like about Comics is the way they keep using the same characters over and over again, rebooting series, retconning repeatedly the past, changing the characters as they go.

If manga was the same, we would all still be reading Astroboy, Sailor Moon and Dragon Ball. Except it would be a cross-universe mix with Goku raping Sailor Moon, and Astroboy is retconned to be their kid


----------



## PPsycho (Aug 20, 2013)

The fact alone that several writers do different stories for the same characters is kinda strange. I'm not saying the manga industry is superior to the western comics, but the series at least don't have a personality disorder. It's hard to keep track of what's canon and what's not(or a what's "canon" in a different universe). Not to mention the inconsitency with powers, feats, abbilities and even greater range of asspulls than manga brings.

I'm not that well informed when it comes to the western comics(or manga while we're at it)so feel free to correct me if I said something that's not true.

And yes, by western comics I meant the superhero ones in this post.


----------



## Mys??lf (Aug 20, 2013)

Sabl?s said:


> Mango > Comics
> 
> oh wait, that's not controversial.





Frost said:


> nope, just correct :ignoramus



get out , both of you 

____

99% of shounen mangas are mediocre , linear and monotonous ...


----------



## Es (Aug 20, 2013)

stream said:


> What I don't really like about Comics is the way they keep using the same characters over and over again, rebooting series, retconning repeatedly the past, changing the characters as they go.
> 
> If manga was the same, we would all still be reading Astroboy, Sailor Moon and Dragon Ball. Except it would be a cross-universe mix with Goku raping Sailor Moon, and Astroboy is retconned to be their kid


Welcome to Serial fiction.  Not to mention indie comics are a whole different game entirely so this kind of falls flat


PPsycho said:


> The fact alone that several writers do different stories for the same characters is kinda strange. I'm not saying the manga industry is superior to the western comics, but the series at least don't have a personality disorder. It's hard to keep track of what's canon and what's not(or a what's "canon" in a different universe). Not to mention the inconsitency with powers, feats, abbilities and even greater range of asspulls than manga brings.
> 
> I'm not that well informed when it comes to the western comics(or manga while we're at it)so feel free to correct me if I said something that's not true.
> 
> And yes, by western comics I meant the superhero ones in this post.



>Caring about powers and feats in comics
>Not the story

As for what is canon and what is not some use sliding time scales like with Marvel while others like DC reboot every so often. 

Really you just need to know what writers to read and what to avoid to not get confused


----------



## PPsycho (Aug 20, 2013)

I never said I don't care for the story. On the contrary, the fact that the story is made be several people is just strange to me. A character isn't a character anymore, he's more like a brand, which is something that just begs for inconsitency, which in return is highlighted by the ever changing abbilities that can impact the story.

Superman 1 is weakened but can still fight against Metallo.
Superman 2 is instantly paralyzed by the smallest chunk of Kryptonite.

I know this example is pretty vague, but you know what I mean. Again, that does not mean I imply that manga is better. Just something I don't like about western comics.


----------



## Samavarti (Aug 20, 2013)

stream said:


> What I don't really like about Comics is the way they keep using the same characters over and over again, rebooting series, retconning repeatedly the past, changing the characters as they go.
> 
> If manga was the same, we would all still be reading Astroboy, Sailor Moon and Dragon Ball. Except it would be a cross-universe mix with Goku raping Sailor Moon, and Astroboy is retconned to be their kid


You know that both inside and outside america exist a ton fuck of comics that don't reuse characters, and are not about supeheroes, right?


----------



## Lee-Sensei (Aug 20, 2013)

> What I don't really like about Comics is the way they keep using the same characters over and over again, rebooting series, retconning repeatedly the past, changing the characters as they go.
> 
> If manga was the same, we would all still be reading Astroboy, Sailor Moon and Dragon Ball. Except it would be a cross-universe mix with Goku raping Sailor Moon, and Astroboy is retconned to be their kid



Then read things like Sandman or Watchmen.


----------



## Gunners (Aug 20, 2013)

Reborn is actually a decent series  

Seriously though, controversial opinion. Dragonball is not that spectacular, the anime was spectacular growing up, but there is hardly anything to the series that causes me to reflect. With the exception of Vegeta and Piccolo the characters are one dimensional and defined primarily by how strong they are.


----------



## Gin (Aug 20, 2013)

Gunners said:


> Seriously though, controversial opinion. Dragonball is not that spectacular, the anime was spectacular growing up, but there is hardly anything to the series that causes me to reflect. With the exception of Vegeta and Piccolo the characters are one dimensional and defined primarily by how strong they are.


This post contains pretty much everything I would say regarding the series.   

Power levels and Ki blasts might have been interesting to me years ago and before I'd read any other manga/watched other anime, but it falls far short when compared to the majority of popular modern series, and nostalgia/progenitor arguments aren't enough to convince me otherwise.


----------



## Stilzkin (Aug 20, 2013)

PPsycho said:


> I never said I don't care for the story. On the contrary, the fact that the story is made be several people is just strange to me. A character isn't a character anymore, he's more like a brand, which is something that just begs for inconsitency, which in return is highlighted by the ever changing abbilities that can impact the story.
> 
> Superman 1 is weakened but can still fight against Metallo.
> Superman 2 is instantly paralyzed by the smallest chunk of Kryptonite.
> ...



I've been reading Superman comics lately and I think one of the really interesting things about it is that each writer takes what have become classic elements in a Superman story and does it in their own way.

There is no problem with inconsistencies about the character when you read particular arcs or stories. Its like in greek mythology where part of the game was for each story teller to give the story his own twist.

I don't think they should be read like manga. Don't try to read a series like a continuous story. The fact that Superman has to gone on for basically forever means the story's progress is limited.


----------



## Tray (Aug 20, 2013)

KHR was my favorite animu until vongola arc
 


 Hinata is the worst character in fiction
 


 Kubo is the most "unique-looking" mangaka; can't tell the rest of them apart


----------



## Morglay (Aug 20, 2013)

Urek said:


> *Hinata is the worst character in fiction*



The opinions of the righteous have been voiced.


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Aug 20, 2013)

Urek said:


> KHR was my favorite animu until vongola arc
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I take it you don't read Fairy tail....Cause Sting is much, much worse then Hinata could ever be.



BlackniteSwartz said:


> Wut?
> 
> 
> At least we agree on this part :ignoramus



.........Wait....You think Rave Master is not better then Fairy tail....Jesus.

Also One piece is overrated thats not even worth debating. Thats not to say its bad, One piece is my favorite manga it still gets dick rode like no other. 

And HDSK has way to much fan service, every fight the girls are fighting 95 percent naked, and almost each chapter has some sort of fan service if a girl is in it


----------



## OS (Aug 20, 2013)

Frost said:


> This post contains pretty much everything I would say regarding the series.
> 
> Power levels and Ki blasts might have been interesting to me years ago and before I'd read any other manga/watched other anime, but it falls far short when compared to the majority of popular modern series, and nostalgia/progenitor arguments aren't enough to convince me otherwise.



Actually. Cell is a great villain. Not a deep character or whatever but his personality and power were awesome.


----------



## manidk (Aug 20, 2013)

x5exotic said:


> Enies lobby is one of the worst arcs in history of manga. And the manga overall is really generic and uncreative, dont see how it's any different from fairy tail anymore.
> 
> Soul society was as shitty as fullbringer.
> 
> Kubo is much better than Oda; both dish out mediocre storylines, the latter takes 10 times longer while the former writes it spontaneously.



Damn son.

I agree completely on point three though.


----------



## Typhon (Aug 20, 2013)

I couldn't even bring myself to finish part 1 of JJBA. I wasn't a fan of the art or how the main character acted. I think it sucks, but apparently it gets better.


----------



## manidk (Aug 20, 2013)

Omnation said:


> I couldn't even bring myself to finish part 1 of JJBA. I wasn't a fan of the art or how the main character acted. I think it sucks, but apparently it gets better.



Part 2 is awesome.

Three drags on.

Part 4 is <= Part 2.

Part 5 I still haven't finished because I just... Can't.


----------



## Morglay (Aug 20, 2013)

I find Kubo's butchering of the German language sexually arousing.


----------



## Toriko (Aug 20, 2013)

Hsdk is better than one piece on average

Souten no ken is better than north star

Jonathan joestar is the coolest jo jo

Cars isnt as good as wham

Monster of the week is great

Toriko is a better character than luffy.

Bleach isnt bad now

Dressrosa is cool


----------



## B Rabbit (Aug 20, 2013)

Tobi's a great villain under certain drugs your taking.


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Aug 20, 2013)

Toriko said:


> *Hsdk is better than one piece on average*
> 
> Souten no ken is better than north star
> 
> ...



The only thing i would say for sure is Controversial is the bold, and Luffy cause the fanboys of One piece and Luffy. 

Also the Bold is the only one i disagree with as well. HDSK suffers from terrible pacing a lot more then OP, and on average the chapters are just casual chapters or set-up chapters. As most HDSK are just that, training or some other set-up for the big stuff. Now said chapters are not bad by any means, but they are nothing that makes me go OMG or can't wait for the next chapter. So combine that with again the terrible pacing, and well yea lol. Although of course its much better reading it all at once. 

For example this weeks chapter. it was decent due to the bad ass Masters being Bad ass, but hardly anything happened, and we learned nothing of importance. As for this weeks chapter of one piece we got a decent bit of information involving the history of a certain group of people that raises a lot of questions, among other things. 

Anyway to each their own, it shifts depending on whats going on but usually i look forward to and enjoy one piece chapters more then HDSK. Although i guess that should be the case seeing as i like One piece more then HDSK lol.

Edit: Although i will say depending on how the Author takes it the Average HDSK for the rest of the year should soon be filled with God Tier fighting and plot points...can't wait.


----------



## Dellinger (Aug 20, 2013)

Toriko doesn't hold a candle compared to Luffy.


----------



## OS (Aug 20, 2013)

It's not really controversial imo about the Toriko and luffy thing nor is it really something to get mad about since both don't really have something that makes them stand out so much.


----------



## Tray (Aug 20, 2013)

SnK is overrated as well

I don't get what's so great about Sasha, even including the "potato moments"

And Rookia is kewler than Mikasa



Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> I take it you don't read Fairy tail....Cause Sting is much, much worse then Hinata could ever be.



And I won't be going through 300+ chapters of rumored turrible just to verify that


----------



## manidk (Aug 20, 2013)

Toriko said:


> Cars isnt as good as whaml



Absolutely.


Also, Soul Society arc is the best arc in the HST.


----------



## Freddy Mercury (Aug 20, 2013)

Toriko said:


> Hsdk is better than one piece on average
> 
> Souten no ken is better than north star
> 
> ...




Those are actually pretty agreeable to be honest.


----------



## OtherGalaxy (Aug 20, 2013)

...even I would kind of have to agree on the Wham bit

never thought I'd say that


----------



## Jagger (Aug 21, 2013)

So many wrong opinions on this thread.  I need a banhammer now.


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Aug 21, 2013)

Original Sin said:


> It's not really controversial imo about the Toriko and luffy thing nor is it really something to get mad about since both don't really have something that makes them stand out so much.



What have you done.

Insulting Toriko is one thing, but Luffy. 

Your asking for a War OS.



Urek said:


> SnK is overrated as well
> 
> I don't get what's so great about Sasha, even including the "potato moments"
> 
> ...



Wait were you serious.

Hinata worse then Sakura, Tenten, Shizune, Tsunade, Naruto, Sasuke, Obito.....Golden boys Itachi and Minato, and thats just from Naruto 

The only explanation i can think of is your a supporter of NarutoXSakura and have a unnatural hate towards hinata due to her liking Naruto. As in all honesty the few little moments Kishimoto actually gives Hinata she is actually doing something cool(Or at least trying to), or helpful. Now of course some would say opinions are opinions, which is true, but Hinata has done so little even if you dislike the things she has done..her being the worst character in Naruto let alone fiction is kind of well a stretch. 

Anyway don't read Fairy tail its bad. Although Sting really is a complete garbage character that in comparison Makes Obito, Vegeta level in terms of awesome.


----------



## Jagger (Aug 21, 2013)

It's hard to find a controversial opinion when this thread already has 28 pages.

OP is a faget for making this thread. 

Oh, how the fuck can you like My Little Pony? It's a kid's show and not even as good as Adventure Time.


----------



## Tray (Aug 21, 2013)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Wait were you serious.
> 
> Hinata worse then Sakura, Tenten, Shizune, Tsunade, Naruto, Sasuke, Obito.....Golden boys Itachi and Minato, and thats just from Naruto
> 
> The only explanation i can think of is your a supporter of NarutoXSakura and have a unnatural hate towards hinata due to her liking Naruto. As in all honesty the few little moments Kishimoto actually gives Hinata she is actually doing something cool(Or at least trying to), or helpful.



So-cool-a is my fav gurl in the terrible series. I wouldn't pair her up with that trash called Nardo :ignoramus

And this clip pretty much somes up my thoughts for Hinata. Plus her eyes are creepy as hell 



> Anyway don't read Fairy tail its bad. Although Sting really is a complete garbage character that in comparison Makes Obito, Vegeta level in terms of awesome.


Ain't nobody got time for that


----------



## Imagine (Aug 21, 2013)

Jagger said:


> Oh, how the fuck can you like My Little Pony? It's a kid's show and not even as good as Adventure Time.


Cause friendship is magic, brah.


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Aug 21, 2013)

Urek said:


> So-cool-a is my fav gurl in the terrible series. I wouldn't pair her up with that trash called Nardo :ignoramus
> 
> And this clip pretty much somes up my thoughts for Hinata. Plus her eyes are creepy as hell
> 
> ...



Funny Video but it must of been made by Shipping fan girls/boys as know one even talks about hinata unless it involves if she is going to end up with Naruto or not, let alone overrate her...whats their to overate lol she does shit and is fodder. 

Anyway my counter to that is Sakura being a bitch(since part 1), Sasuke being a bitch, Obito being bat shit crazy over a girl who put him in the friend zone, Naruto being overly Gay for sasuke and also a bitch. I mean at least Hinata is nice, and actually improved herself over time personality and strength rise...at least a little lol.

Lastly Hinata could be butt ugly its wrong to judge people by looks Urek.

Off-topic question. Do you think any of the people i listed in the last post are good characters?

Well i got time for it, i have been reading fairy tail for years and im not one for dropping manga. So i am stuck with it, you though don't read it.



Jagger said:


> It's hard to find a controversial opinion when this thread already has 28 pages.
> 
> OP is a faget for making this thread.
> 
> Oh, how the fuck can you like My Little Pony? It's a kid's show and not even as good as Adventure Time.



Why mention Adventure time in the same post as MLP?


----------



## OS (Aug 21, 2013)

> What have you done.
> 
> Insulting Toriko is one thing, but Luffy.
> 
> Your asking for a War OS.



Luffy is nothing special and very...bland i guess is the word. Like goku in a way.


----------



## leokiko (Aug 21, 2013)

Luffy is not a well developed character, but he is fun to watch, to be honest.

I don't think I have many controversial opinions. I love OP, Magi, SnK, etc.... Hate Naruto, am "ok" with Bleach even though I know it sucks...hmm... I guess I could say I never read JJBA, though I watched the anime.

EDIT: Oh wait! Thought of one! I dislike Tower of God. It just didn't appeal to me at all, it was my first time reading a webtoon. Wouldn't say it is overrated because I haven't actually rated it from a objective viewpoint but from what I read, the setting is too freaking confusing, and the main character has no personality. Barely even talks. But again, I read like 1/4 of it.


----------



## Toriko (Aug 21, 2013)

Jotaro >=Joseph

Greed Island/York Shin > chimera ant arc

Yyh >> hxh

Shingeki no kyojin intro doesnt go with everything

Golden Age Berserk isnt the best berserk arc imo

No manga character ever will ever hold a candle, let alone be better than Goku.

TerraFormars>Shingeki no Kyojin

Magi>hst up to chapter 200

Cooking Festival>Marineford War

One Piece >hxh


----------



## Mizura (Aug 21, 2013)

Urek said:


> I don't get what's so great about Sasha, even including the "potato moments"


That's because she's the only one in the series with a noticeable personalitiy quirk. >_>;; (I'm talking about quirks, not stuff like crushes and obsession and whatnot).


----------



## x5exotic (Aug 21, 2013)

> Yyh >> hxh



Not really controversial, all action/shonen junkies say [insert random/generic shonen] > hxh




Another thing: might be really controversial: Everyone knows HxH is the best written shonen deep down (or the only well written battle shonen], some agree, some live in denial about it.


And: death note is what one would consider a 'perfect' series


----------



## Toriko (Aug 21, 2013)

Fma>>>hxh

Vagabond>>>hxh

Kingdom>>>hxh

Hsdk>hxh

And the list goes on.


----------



## x5exotic (Aug 21, 2013)

Yes that's the formula, although if we're talking 2003 fma, then it's not really generic, and therefore just might be the one thing that's better


----------



## Renegade Knight (Aug 21, 2013)

Can't believe this eyesore was resurrected. 

Let the good times roll.


----------



## Bruce Wayne (Aug 21, 2013)

My eyes are burning.


----------



## Byrd (Aug 21, 2013)

Most characters in HST & Toriko are rather one-dimensional in terms of development

Feng Shen Ji is alright... not that good

ToG part one was pretty decent.. didn't blow me away

Nozoki Ana is an excellent series to read despite the near hentai levels on content... I actually rated it a 9

Regarding Death >>> Berserk 

Ichigo is the most boring protagonist I have seen in a Shonen manga...

Bleach should have ended after Aizen defeat... now Kubo seems to be making an even shittier story..

Naruto just needs to end period


----------



## BlueDemon (Aug 21, 2013)

Byrdman said:


> Nozoki Ana is an excellent series to read despite the near hentai levels on content... I actually rated it a 9



I agree with most of what you said, but this especially needs to be highlighted!!


----------



## Mileh (Aug 21, 2013)

Byrdman said:


> Ichigo is the most boring protagonist I have seen in a Shonen manga...
> 
> Bleach should have ended after Aizen defeat... now Kubo seems to be making an even shittier story..
> 
> Naruto just needs to end period


These are all popular opinions, though?


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Aug 21, 2013)

Toriko said:


> *Jotaro >=Joseph*
> 
> *Greed Island/York Shin > chimera ant arc*
> 
> ...



Now your just going crazy. 

Also although you are right Attack on Titan opening can go on a lot of things, some of the videos are quite funny in fact.



x5exotic said:


> Not really controversial, all action/shonen junkies say [insert random/generic shonen] > hxh
> 
> 
> 
> ...



YYH is not a random/generic Shonen.

It was made by Togashi afterall.


----------



## x5exotic (Aug 21, 2013)

Yes it is. It's fucking pathetic and cliche. The whole thing is 100% fights no story.
Just because togashi made it doesnt mean it's good
He made it in his noob days after all

Funny how the most and least generic shonens are by the same guy

That said, it still isn't the worst... I'd give it. 4-5/10


----------



## Pliskin (Aug 21, 2013)

Lucifer and the Biscuit Hammer is one of the best manga out there. The naivit? of the characters and the childishness of Battlemanga (sorting algorithm of evil, big villain speeches, etc.) for once make perfect sense in the general theme of this manga and tie the whole thing together.

Also one of the most amazing character arcs for the protagonist and pretty epic deaths.


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Aug 21, 2013)

x5exotic said:


> Yes it is. It's fucking pathetic and cliche. The whole thing is 100% fights no story.
> Just because togashi made it doesnt mean it's good
> He made it in his noob days after all
> 
> ...



You know, i bet Fairy tail is one of your favorite manga. 

Also YYH>HXH.

On-topic. I find Marine-ford overrated it was in all honestly just a mess. If it was not filled with awesome charcters it would of been shit, good thing it was though. I give Marine-ford a 6/10. Its not even in my Top ten favorite arcs in one piece.


----------



## Byrd (Aug 21, 2013)

Pliskin said:


> Lucifer and the Biscuit Hammer is one of the best manga out there. The naivit? of the characters and the childishness of Battlemanga (sorting algorithm of evil, big villain speeches, etc.) for once make perfect sense in the general theme of this manga and tie the whole thing together.
> 
> Also one of the most amazing character arcs for the protagonist and pretty epic deaths.



Agreed fully... 

The final arc is one arcs in all of my manga reading I have read


----------



## MegaultraHay (Aug 21, 2013)

Sakura is not that bad of a character.


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (Aug 21, 2013)

Ichigo is the best of HST protags


he may be boring at times, but he never annoyed me and you can relate to him more 

and Hichigo makes up for the boring parts


----------



## Null (Aug 21, 2013)

HunterxHunter is better than Yu Yu Hakusho and in my opinion it's the best manga ever published in WSJ


----------



## B Rabbit (Aug 21, 2013)

I also agree Ichigos the best of the protags.


----------



## Louis Cyphre (Aug 21, 2013)

- OP is only a average shounen manga
- Berserk is losing quality ()
- Nardo has a good plot and background but Kishimoto is too retarded to develop it decently


----------



## Jagger (Aug 21, 2013)

By God, some people need to be banned.


----------



## Basilikos (Aug 21, 2013)

Jagger said:


> By God, some people need to be banned.


Your face needs to be banned. 


*Spoiler*: __


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Aug 21, 2013)

Ichigo is boring as hell from his personality and even more so his fighting style. Its Getsuga+Slash+Getsuga again+more slashes and maybe a Cero if he went hollow. He is one of the most boring fighters in all of the HST, just thank god his opponents usually have cool moves. 

Also he bitches to much.


----------



## Ghost_of_Gashir (Aug 21, 2013)

Assassination Classroom is a flaming bag of shit.

Every single arc in One Piece post-timeskip has sucked balls and only seem to be getting worse..


----------



## ~Howling~ (Aug 21, 2013)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> blub blub blub


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Aug 21, 2013)

Pussy Ichigo. I rest my case


----------



## Itachі (Aug 21, 2013)

Sasuke is a little bitch who thinks the world revolves around him


----------



## Byrd (Aug 21, 2013)

Water 7 is the best arc in HST. The HST gets too much attention... Snk is slowly losing its edge it used to have... Gantz wasn't all that bad... Umineko manga is godly


----------



## Badalight (Aug 21, 2013)

I don't think everything after the Golden Age arc in Berserk is shit. I love his new cast and I still love the manga (though I agree with Golden Age being the best part).


----------



## Wolfgang Grimmer (Aug 21, 2013)

party berserk is awesome (read all of it in one go )


----------



## Lee-Sensei (Aug 22, 2013)

Link removed

Pussy Luffy. I rest my case.


----------



## Renegade Knight (Aug 22, 2013)

ITT: Everyone's opinion is wrong except mine.

ck


----------



## Bruce Wayne (Aug 22, 2013)

Lee-Sensei said:


> Link removed
> 
> Pussy Luffy. I rest my case.



So crying because your brother died right in front of you is called being a pussy?


----------



## SternRitter (Aug 22, 2013)

Luffy cried when Ussop temporarily left the SH's aswell, that's pretty pussy. 
Naruto? Let's not open those floodgates.


----------



## Lee-Sensei (Aug 22, 2013)

Bruce Wayne said:


> So crying because your brother died right in front of you is called being a pussy?



1) He's crying because he's weak.

2) If crying because you think your dad and friends are trying to kill you is being a pussy, then yeah... it is being a pussy.


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (Aug 22, 2013)

some peole don't know what the fuck they're supposed to post in this thread


----------



## ZenithXAbyss (Aug 22, 2013)

x5exotic said:


> And: death note is what one would consider a 'perfect' series



Lelno.






.


----------



## Ramius (Aug 22, 2013)

Lost Children arc is best Berserk arc by far. Retribution overall >>>>>>> Golden Shit.

Vagabond > Blade of the Immortal > Shigurui > Rurouni KenSHIT. You can add Berserk inbetween Vagabond and BotI too, I guess.

YYH was really really damn generic, but fun. The characters, the majority, are just generic stereotypes too, though Yusuke's actually a rather interesting part of the cast. Probably the only reason I'd call the whole manga "average". It's overrated.

Saint Seyia is just irredeemable trash, likewise Bastard and there is no reason to delude yourself otherwise just because they are "old". Age doesn't matter. They are still shit.

Dragon Ball is actually crap after Namek and brings nothing good, but really trashy stereotypes/tropes/whatever you want to call them. It also had a really bad influence on Jump manga and manga overall that involve trashy powerlevels.

One Piece is below average with some high points in-between. It's better than Bleach, better than Narushit, better than Dragon Ball (as a whole, including everything post Namek), but not much outside that. The writing is trash, with some utterly unfunny and rehashed jokes, crappy reaction faces everywhere and unspectacular art. Needless to say, it got even worse after timeskip. Luffy is shit.

Urasawa is actually a really good writer (well, far better than 99 % of mangaka, for sure), but his mysteries suck donkey ass most of the time.

Homunculus is best psychological manga, though this one's not really controversial, is it?

Liar Game is absolute garbage and Kaiji/Akagi/Zero/Ten/One Outs are far far better. Strongest Man Kurosawa is better than all.

Ashita no Joe >>>>>>>>>>>> Shamo >>>>>> Hajime no Ippo. All are pretty good though, albeit Ippo's pretty..average.

Trigun shits on everything Black Lagoon has to offer, apart from girls and fanservice.

And since you all absolutely love discussing battle shounen so much:

Devilman > Devilman Lady > HnK > Jojo > Gash Bell > Shaman King > HxH > Flame of Recca > YYH >  Kenshin > SDK > Wan Piss > Dragon Ball > Magi > Bastard > Black Cat > Rave > Saint SeiSHIT > Bleach > HSDK > DGM > Fairy Tail > Toriko > Naruto > KHR. Kinda wrote it on a whim, but it's the general idea. May be some changes in-between.

Lucifer and the Biscuit Hammer is overrated, albeit still much better executed than your average action manga.


----------



## ZenithXAbyss (Aug 22, 2013)

Luffy and ichigo crying < naruto hyperventilating.


----------



## ZenithXAbyss (Aug 22, 2013)

Angelator said:


> Lost Children arc is best Berserk arc by far. Retribution overall >>>>>>> Golden Shit.
> 
> Vagabond > Blade of the Immortal > Shigurui > Rurouni KenSHIT. You can add Berserk inbetween Vagabond and BotI too, I guess.
> 
> ...


At last, someone who've also read homunculus.
#Notaloneanymore.
:uva


----------



## Bruce Wayne (Aug 22, 2013)

Lee-Sensei said:


> 1) He's crying because he's weak.



How many times has this happened to Ichigo? 



> 2) If crying because you think your dad and friends are trying to kill you is being a pussy, then yeah... it is being a pussy.


Luffy has the entire world trying to kill him, I don't see him crying.


----------



## Lee-Sensei (Aug 22, 2013)

ZenithXAbyss said:


> Luffy and ichigo crying < naruto hyperventilating.



Naruto hyperventilating was the second worst thing I've ever seen in an anime and manga. The worst thing I've ever seen was him rolling around in bed moaning about Sasuke.


----------



## Lee-Sensei (Aug 22, 2013)

Bruce Wayne said:


> How many times has this happened to Ichigo?



I can't remember if he's cried about it. I remember him getting angry.



> Luffy has the entire world trying to kill him, I don't see him crying.



Um... yeah he does. I just showed you a picture of him crying over something trivial.

1) The whole world isn't trying to kill him.

2) It's much worse when the people you're closest to are trying to kill you. He didn't know who to trust.

If you want to bash Ichigo for crying then go right ahead, but don't use piss poor double standards when it comes to Luffy.


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (Aug 22, 2013)

this thread is full of self-important assholes


oh wait, that's the truth


----------



## Lee-Sensei (Aug 22, 2013)

Bleach is a lot better than people give it credit for (for the past 70 chapters or so).



Fluttershy said:


> this thread is full of self-important assholes
> 
> 
> oh wait, that's the truth



Fluttershy, are you perhaps a prophet?


----------



## God Movement (Aug 22, 2013)

the thread of horrible opinions


----------



## Bruce Wayne (Aug 22, 2013)

Lee-Sensei said:


> I can't remember if he's cried about it. I remember him getting angry.


He does it every time he loses a fight.




> Um... yeah he does. I just showed you a picture of him crying over something trivial.


Didn't Ichigo cry because he couldn't protect Orihime. 



> 1) The whole world isn't trying to kill him.



So the Marines, World Government, and other Pirates are there to befriend Luffy. 




> If you want to bash Ichigo for crying then go right ahead, but don't use piss poor double standards when it comes to Luffy.


You poor lost soul.


----------



## ZenithXAbyss (Aug 22, 2013)

Lee-Sensei said:


> Naruto hyperventilating was the second worst thing I've ever seen in an anime and manga. The worst thing I've ever seen was him rolling around in bed moaning about Sasuke.



 




.


----------



## Lee-Sensei (Aug 22, 2013)

Bruce Wayne said:


> He does it every time he loses a fight.



An exaggeration. Either way, if he cries after he loses a fight I don't remember it. But I do know that Luffy's cried at least about 4 or 5 times.




> Didn't Ichigo cry because he couldn't protect Orihime.



I don't remember. Can you post a scan? And how does this change the fact that Luffy was crying because he's weak?



> So the Marines, World Government, and other Pirates are there to befriend Luffy.



1) The majority of one piece character are civilians.

2) Most marines are trying to catch him. The WG only represents so much of the world. Every pirate crew isn't trying to kill him.



> You poor lost soul.



Stop being such a OPtard. Both characters cry so you can't call one a pussy and not the other.


----------



## ZenithXAbyss (Aug 22, 2013)

Honestly, ichigo had it worse.
Basically, his loved ones are mindfucked by the enemy and is trying to kill him.


----------



## x5exotic (Aug 22, 2013)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> You know, i bet Fairy tail is one of your favorite manga.
> 
> Also YYH>HXH.
> 
> On-topic. I find Marine-ford overrated it was in all honestly just a mess. If it was not filled with awesome charcters it would of been shit, good thing it was though. I give Marine-ford a 6/10. Its not even in my Top ten favorite arcs in one piece.




I know you think that, one piecE and yyh are generic with many fights and explosions and power levels and tiers and little story that is badly written, it's the popular choice among action/shonen junkies.

Also FT is no different from yyh/op/the rest.


----------



## x5exotic (Aug 22, 2013)

ZenithXAbyss said:


> Lelno.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Double perfect then? 
Lelyes.qj


----------



## Lee-Sensei (Aug 22, 2013)

I think FT is much worse than them honestly. Even worse than Naruto. That Tournament Arc was atrocious.


----------



## x5exotic (Aug 22, 2013)

Well Naruto is overall the best of big 3, the new arc is shit but you cant deny it had some good highs
In quality and quantity, the best of naruto
Is better than the best of bleach/op, and at its worst it's comparable to the average lf the other two.

New Op is no different from FT


----------



## Lee-Sensei (Aug 22, 2013)

x5exotic said:


> Well Naruto is overall the best of big 3, the new arc is shit but you cant deny it had some good highs
> In quality and quantity, the best of naruto
> Is better than the best of bleach/op, and at its worst it's comparable to the average lf the other two.
> 
> New Op is no different from FT



Yeah. Naruto had a lot of good highs... in Part 1. Do you really think it's better now with Sasuke "Hokage" Uchiha?

Well to each their own...


----------



## x5exotic (Aug 22, 2013)

Part 2 ruined the sasuke naruto dynamic but still can stand on its own as better than the other 2; Hidan's arc, pain's arc itself (not the end with the resurrections) 
, the Summit arc and the confining the jinchuriki were great, the Sai/Gaara arcs were average to boring but not atrocious, and the recent arc is the only one i'd call shit.

Oh and itachi arc was good but overrated


----------



## Ramius (Aug 22, 2013)

Forgot: Type-Moon is more like Type-SHIT, apart from a handful of good characters, the lesbo scenes/the girls' design and some of the so called memes the franchise spawned.

Also, Getter Robo and MaSHITger is just as bad as that shitty Tengen Toppa Gurren Faggen DROPPED harder than Skrillex' beat.

Diebuster >>>> Gunbuster

NGE is one of the best anime originals ever by far. I guess THIS is controversial here and not so much outside this place.

Wings of Honneamise is the best Gainax show/movie/etc.

Paranoia Agent is the only really good thing Satoshi Kon was involved in. Overall, Satoshi Kon rehashes the exact same shit. All.the.fucking.time. His works have little to no depth, despite attempting that.

Miyazaki and studio Ghibli overall are nothing but average, outside animation. Nausicaa was trash.

Imaishi is nothing but a good animator. He's a crap writer and director.

Yotsuba is one of the best shounen-aimed manga ever. Probably THE best.


----------



## x5exotic (Aug 22, 2013)

TTGL really sucked, but then again all mechs anime do


----------



## Ramius (Aug 22, 2013)

x5exotic said:


> TTGL really sucked, but then again all mechs anime do



That's actually true. It's.all.the.same.shit. Space Opera >>> faggity ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".) manchildren mecha. It's the same crappy formula the entire time.


----------



## Lee-Sensei (Aug 22, 2013)

> Paranoia Agent is the only really good thing Satoshi Kon was involved in. Overall, Satoshi Kon rehashes the exact same shit. All.the.fucking.time. His works have little to no depth, despite attempting that.



What about Perfect Blue?


----------



## Ramius (Aug 22, 2013)

I said "really good", as in "excellent". Perfect Blue is "just good". It's better than Angel Egg by far and it's probably Kon's most famous work and one of his best.


----------



## Lee-Sensei (Aug 22, 2013)

Angelator said:


> I said "really good", as in "excellent". Perfect Blue is "just good". It's better than Angel Egg by far and it's probably Kon's most famous work and one of his best.



Really? I thought Perfect Blue was great.


----------



## Mizura (Aug 22, 2013)

Fluttershy said:


> this thread is full of self-important assholes
> 
> 
> oh wait, that's the truth


Silly, the whole forum's like that. 

Actually, the whole internet.


----------



## Dellinger (Aug 22, 2013)

God Movement said:


> the thread of horrible opinions



With Exotic here,I couldn't expect anything less.


----------



## Byrd (Aug 22, 2013)

Angelator said:


> Forgot: Type-Moon is more like Type-SHIT, apart from a handful of good characters, the lesbo scenes/the girls' design and some of the so called memes the franchise spawned.
> 
> Also, Getter Robo and MaSHITger is just as bad as that shitty Tengen Toppa Gurren Faggen DROPPED harder than Skrillex' beat.
> 
> ...



Those I agree with


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Aug 22, 2013)

Lee-Sensei said:


> An exaggeration. Either way, if he cries after he loses a fight I don't remember it. But I do know that Luffy's cried at least about 4 or 5 times.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Luffy was a Pusey but he got his shit together and got strong.

Ichigo on the other hand just got cuddled by his friends via ass pull power up and them helping him.

Or in other words.

Luffy=former Pussy

Ichigo=Still a Pussy


----------



## Byrd (Aug 22, 2013)

Going Merry has more character development than a lot of characters in Bleach or Naruto


----------



## x5exotic (Aug 22, 2013)

Awww OPtards butthurt :/

Anyway seems like people still can't win in arguments and resort to being 5 year old girls


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (Aug 22, 2013)

One Piece and Luffy are overrated


----------



## Bruce Wayne (Aug 22, 2013)

Prime(current) Kishi solos Kubo and Oda.


----------



## Byrd (Aug 22, 2013)

Bruce Wayne said:


> Prime(current) Kishi solos Kubo and Oda.



At being shit...


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Aug 22, 2013)

Byrdman said:


> Going Merry has more character development than a lot of characters in Bleach or Naruto



You know what this is so true, and so sad.

Tenten, Shikamarus dad, Ao, Inos dad, Temari, Mei, Kiba, Shino, Gai sensei, Hidan, kakuzu, asumas bitch, and some others have absulute crap charcter development.

That's not to say I dislike all the people I listed, or that they are bad Charcters, but Gai for example is the same old Gai he has always been he just has a few fighting moves we have never seen before.

And that list of course is just naruto.


----------



## Samavarti (Aug 22, 2013)

Angelator said:


> Wings of Honneamise is the best Gainax show/movie/etc.


I actually agree with this.


----------



## Bruce Wayne (Aug 22, 2013)

Byrdman said:


> At being shit...



That title belongs to Kubo.


----------



## Furious George (Aug 22, 2013)

So this thread devolved into... pretty much exactly what I expected. 

------------------------ 

Let's see.... *I think that YYH characters are much better than HxH characters. Like, no contest.* Not sure if that's controversial but most people seem to think otherwise.


----------



## x5exotic (Aug 22, 2013)

^ yeah in feats

In development, they are untouched by anything shoneny


----------



## Byrd (Aug 22, 2013)

More opinions:

Besides the Death, Akame ga Kill! is really lacking in a lot of areas and would be rather weak.

Drifters >> Hellsing

Dendrobates is a great read with such a simple context... Also has some of the best chapter names I seen

If Rakia continues... it will be the best of  Boichi work 

The Breaker: New Waves is pretty average... and sometimes rather boring

I am a Hero is a god-tier manga

Peacemaker Kurogane >>> Kenshin in all aspects


----------



## Furious George (Aug 22, 2013)

x5exotic said:


> ^ yeah in feats
> 
> In development, they are untouched by anything shoneny



I'm referring to character development.


----------



## Imagine (Aug 22, 2013)

Byrdman said:


> More opinions:
> 
> Besides the Death, Akame ga Kill! is really lacking in a lot of areas and would be rather weak.
> 
> ...


Drifters has the potential to become something fucking amazing, but the release dates are killing it.


----------



## Dellinger (Aug 22, 2013)

Furious George said:


> I'm referring to character development.



Shhh,Killua has the best character development in history,what are you talking about? 

And Meruem the best characterization.

HxH is so gud.


----------



## Furious George (Aug 22, 2013)

White Hawk said:


> Shhh,Killua has the best character development in history,what are you talking about?



See, I'm not sure if this is serious or not... if it is, you know you'll have to explain why you think that.


----------



## x5exotic (Aug 22, 2013)

True there's no villain in shonen half so developed as Meryem, and Killua is one of the best developed characters, to see him ( and mostnother characters) in a genre where development is non-existent ( as seen in YYH and Big 3) is quite impressive


----------



## Wolfgang Grimmer (Aug 22, 2013)

White Hawk said:


> Shhh,Killua has the best character development in history,what are you talking about?
> 
> And Meruem the best characterization.
> 
> HxH is so gud.


sarcasm doesn't work really well when what you are sarcastic about is demonstratively true


----------



## Dellinger (Aug 22, 2013)

Furious George said:


> See, I'm not sure if this is serious or not... if it is, you know you'll have to explain why you think that.



Sucking Gon's ass for a period of 300 chapters is truly remarkable


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Aug 22, 2013)

lol killua and the Cell rip off. 

They are good characters but there development is not something out of the ordinary, nor is there some abnormal amount of it compared to everything else.

I think you guys meant to say *HOW * Killua and Cell were developed was really good as thats what matters most.

Development in of itself is not auto good, just look at Sasuke and Naruto.


----------



## Dellinger (Aug 22, 2013)

Wolfgang Grimmer said:


> sarcasm doesn't work really well when what you are sarcastic about is demonstratively true



I think Usopp has a better character development 

For me Doflamingo's and Teach's characterizations are far better than Meruem's


----------



## x5exotic (Aug 22, 2013)

Doflamingo is a hisoka ripoff by design and his 'cool philosophies' are generic one liners with nothing really regarding them, he'll keep repeating them while fighting luffy and that's about it.

bb is just a powerhouse who broke an established law within the series (as in asspull)


----------



## Wolfgang Grimmer (Aug 22, 2013)

White Hawk said:


> Sucking Gon's ass for a period of 300 chapters is truly remarkable





White Hawk said:


> I think Usopp has a better character development
> 
> For me Doflamingo's and Teach's characterizations are far better than Meruem's


a true mango connoisseur

take note on how he describes killua's lack of character depth


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Aug 22, 2013)

DD is not attracted to little boys, nor does he get a hard on from fighting, and thats besides the fact he looks nothing like Hisoka and their abilitys are nothing alike. Hardly a Hisoka ripoff when they have nothing in common.


----------



## Black Leg Sanji (Aug 22, 2013)

Byrdman said:


> Drifters >> Hellsing



Not surprised

Hellsing wasnt really good to begin with anyway


----------



## x5exotic (Aug 22, 2013)

DD IS actually a hisoka ripoff, but not in character since it's a generic insert, so no rape for him I guess.


----------



## Furious George (Aug 22, 2013)

Okay, can we stop the bashing? Please?

I'll attempt a real discussion here... 

Killua having great development... let's see, from what I remember about Killua its basically "I came from a bad family but the power of Gon's friendship is making me not so sad about that anymore." This is the bottom line.... Marceline from Adventure Time has the exact same kind and it unveils in similar ways. 

Not sure you can really compare that to what Yusuke became by the end of YYH.


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Aug 22, 2013)

Black Leg Sanji said:


> Not surprised
> 
> Hellsing wasnt really good to begin with anyway



Kill yourself with fire. Hellsing is awesome.


----------



## Wolfgang Grimmer (Aug 22, 2013)

Furious George said:


> Okay, can we stop the bashing? Please?
> 
> I'll attempt a real discussion here...
> 
> Killua having great development... let's see, from what I remember about Killua its basically "I came from a bad family but the power of Gon's friendship is making me not so sad about that anymore." This is the bottom line....


nope
try              again


----------



## Dellinger (Aug 22, 2013)

Well,Killua did that whole thing about Gon and everybody mentions how great it was.


----------



## Black Leg Sanji (Aug 22, 2013)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Kill yourself with fire. Hellsing is awesome.



Alucard turned into a massive sue

The invasion arc sucked ass after Anderson died


----------



## x5exotic (Aug 22, 2013)

By that logic, every one in literture was X but became Y, simple as that.

It's not about what you become, it's about how. Most characters in HxH excel in the how, while no character in rest of most shonens have even begun the 'what'


----------



## Furious George (Aug 22, 2013)

Wolfgang Grimmer said:


> nope
> try              again



I understand you're still in pissy fanboy mode but if you'd enlighten me on what I'm missing maybe we can really talk. Up to you though.


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Aug 22, 2013)

x5exotic said:


> DD IS actually a hisoka ripoff, but not in character since it's a generic insert, so no rape for him I guess.




That makes no sense, like whatsoever. 

Do you know what a X rip off is? Ran from Tower of God is a Killua Rip off. DD looks nothing like hisoka, acts nothing like him, and his ability's are nothing like him.


----------



## Byrd (Aug 22, 2013)

Black Leg Sanji said:


> Alucard turned into a massive sue
> 
> *The invasion arc sucked ass after Anderson died*



Gotta agree with this...

Alucard vs Anderson was the best that Hellsing had to offer sadly..

The manga could have been a lot better if other supernatural entities were introduced.. like more werewolfs, Frankenstein, Ghost etc..


----------



## x5exotic (Aug 22, 2013)

DD, you're thinking in a straightforward way, look beneath the shallow comparisons and you will see
But ir's cool, it's not like the only thing Oda took from HxH


----------



## Black Leg Sanji (Aug 22, 2013)

Byrdman said:


> Gotta agree with this...
> 
> Alucard vs Anderson was the best that Hellsing had to offer sadly..
> 
> The manga could have been a lot better if other supernatural entities were introduced.. like more werewolfs, Frankenstein, Ghost etc..



12 page chapters didnt help either


----------



## Wolfgang Grimmer (Aug 22, 2013)

Furious George said:


> I understand you're still in pissy fanboy mode but if you'd enlighten me on what I'm missing maybe we can really talk. Up to you though.


hint: *power of friendship*

you've read chimera ant arc have you?


----------



## Furious George (Aug 22, 2013)

x5exotic said:


> By that logic, every one in literture was X but became Y, simple as that.
> 
> It's not about what you become, it's about how. Most characters in HxH excel in the how, while no character in rest of most shonens have even begun the 'what'



Okay, I'll give you that its all in the execution... but I don't really remember Killua's being anything special in that category either. And I'm being serious when I say I don't remember since its been so long. 

And bear in mind that I'm not saying HxH is bad at development or anything like that. Togashi is Togashi, after all. I'm speaking in comparison to YYH, where both the "what they become" and "how" was always extraordinary.


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Aug 22, 2013)

Black Leg Sanji said:


> Alucard turned into a massive sue
> 
> The invasion arc sucked ass after Anderson died



1. Alucard was always a Sue. 

2. Nope.


----------



## x5exotic (Aug 22, 2013)

"Okay, I'll give you that its all in the execution... but I don't really remember Killua's being anything special in that category either. And I'm being serious when I say I don't remember since its been so long. "

If you can't say how then it's really just you



And Yusuke is quite generic, I don't know what he becomes in the end since i dropped ot after the Dark snoozefest, but the 'how' is like in OP or fairy tail, the good old fight it out, inspirational line, powerup, blablabla, more shonen stuff, done.


----------



## Ramius (Aug 22, 2013)

YYH? Good character development? AND well executed? Hahahahahahaha. May be good for a Jump manga.
It's just your average formula: delinquent => realizes people actually care for him => FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT like a retard => B-BUT MY KUWABARA! WHY DID TOGURO KILL HIM? MY FRIENDSHIP! GOTTA POWER UP! => Now I've beaten the bad guy, next thing you know, I find ANOTHER oh-so-powerful MYSTERIOUS person => Now he repeats what Kuwabara did and gets magically revived after all, gets interrupted during a fight like a typical angsty delinquent that wants to settle the score => BAAAWWWWWWW, but I've also got a girlfriend! Gotta appreciate that!

It's like his entire character was inspired by Taison. And you bet Yusuke's a Taison rip off for sure. Typical delinquent that becomes better as he progresses and ultimately cares about fighting most of the time and also has a love interest. Maeda, except shittier executed.


----------



## Dellinger (Aug 22, 2013)

Oda taking stuff from Togashi 

^^You're so full of bias it's not even funny.


----------



## Renegade Knight (Aug 22, 2013)

YYH was Togashi's last great work.


----------



## Renegade Knight (Aug 22, 2013)

> *Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread:* 32 (14 members and 18 guests)
> Renegade Knight, Qinglong, Fujita, Wolfgang Grimmer, Furious George, x5exotic, SilverBaller, SternRitter, Donquixote Doflamingo, Byrdman



ck

The walls have eyes


----------



## Black Leg Sanji (Aug 22, 2013)

> Degrading OP to Fanservice Tail+Nakama punch level


----------



## Ramius (Aug 22, 2013)

YYH, great? Revival bullshit, TWO of them, random friendship power-ups, powerlevels out of place, crappy art for a good part of the manga. Lack of details in the manga, rehashed tournament arcs among plenty others. Nope.


----------



## x5exotic (Aug 22, 2013)

Davy back was such a GI ripoff it's not even funny
Even the way they enter the island "wow an endless prairie"
Is the same 
A few tweaks and oda got himself an arc, though he disnt even bother to
Write the events so he actualy just made it all about the games itself.


And Luffy not wanting to know about One Piece, done in the exact same fashion as HxH, it's kinda pathetic 

There are like 4-5 more instances like these


----------



## Furious George (Aug 22, 2013)

x5exotic said:


> If you can't say how then it's really just you



 

Really? Not even going to try to back up what you're saying? 



> YYH? Good character development? AND well executed? Hahahahahahaha. May be good for a Jump manga.



Yeah, I know right?! What's this guy even talking about?!? Hahahaha 

Seriously though, I thought that the measures he was willing to take to save the world in the final arc was very profound and heavy for a shounen, Jump or not. I like that his progression wasn't just "street punk" to "noble hero" but more like "street punk" to  "morally bankrupt antihero". Sure, the conclusion to the narrative (Yusuke getting the girlfriend) was typical but the person Yusuke became was anything but typical. 

So yeah, I disagree.


----------



## x5exotic (Aug 22, 2013)

I'm telling you to back it up, you're just saying ' didnt like this'
So... Yeah


----------



## Fujita (Aug 22, 2013)

x5exotic said:


> Davy back was such a GI ripoff it's not even funny
> Even the way they enter the island "wow an endless prairie"
> Is the same
> A few tweaks and oda got himself an arc, though he disnt even bother to
> ...


----------



## Ramius (Aug 22, 2013)

Yusuke = Maeda through and through. Just because he was the first protag of that kind that you met, it doesn't make him original or "anything but typical". It's just that it was really fucking popular in Japan and outside Japan, hence people suck Togashi's cock like there's no tomorrow.
Look, I really like Yusuke's character, but he's by no means "not typical" or "original", though you haven't claimed the latter me thinks.


----------



## Furious George (Aug 22, 2013)

x5exotic said:


> I'm telling you to back it up



You never said that. 



> you're just saying ' didnt like this'



People can read my posts and see that this isn't true... you know that right?



> So... Yeah



Yeah, what? Your confronted with a real discussion and find you have nothing worthwhile to say?


----------



## Renegade Knight (Aug 22, 2013)

Angelator said:


> YYH, great? Revival bullshit, TWO of them, random friendship power-ups, powerlevels out of place, crappy art for a good part of the manga. Lack of details in the manga, rehashed tournament arcs among plenty others. Nope.



And it still manages to be better than HiatusxHiatus



x5exotic said:


> Davy back was such a GI ripoff it's not even funny
> Even the way they enter the island "wow an endless prairie"
> Is the same
> A few tweaks and oda got himself an arc, though he disnt even bother to
> ...



The ramblings of a madman.

How sad and yet so entertaining.

ck


----------



## Black Leg Sanji (Aug 22, 2013)

Has OP had any chapter as awful like this


----------



## Wolfgang Grimmer (Aug 22, 2013)

Furious George said:


> Really? Not even going to try to back up what you're saying?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


how about in the chimera ant arc were gon and killua where given a choice to stay put while they watch millions of people get slaughtered or to intervene and potentially endanger billions of people by botching their game plan 


Furious George said:


> Killua having great development... let's see, from what I remember about  Killua its basically "I came from a bad family but the power of Gon's  friendship is making me not so sad about that anymore." This is the  bottom line.... *Marceline from Adventure Time has the exact same kind  and it unveils in similar ways. *
> 
> *Not sure you can really compare that to what Yusuke became by the end of YYH.*



when you make stupid comparisons like this you lose all your credibility in this discussion


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Aug 22, 2013)

x5exotic said:


> Davy back was such a GI ripoff it's not even funny
> Even the way they enter the island "wow an endless prairie"
> Is the same
> A few tweaks and oda got himself an arc, though he disnt even bother to
> ...



Davy Back was nothing like Greed Island. 

To the Luffy part LMAO.


----------



## Ramius (Aug 22, 2013)

Also, HxH's just average. The only reason people find it "so good" is perhaps because it has Nen. There's not much outside that, unless Togashi suddenly starts improving his art drastically or creates more satisfying stories focusing less on fighting tactics.


----------



## Renegade Knight (Aug 22, 2013)

Togashi would rather play Dragon Quest than release a new HxH chapter.

He doesn't care as much as he did when he was writing YYH.


----------



## Ramius (Aug 22, 2013)

It's also kind of *on par* with YYH. Want somewhat logical and more realistic fights? HxH. Want better *action*? YYH. Want more annoying characters? HxH. Want fun, yet pretty overly trashy characters? YYH.
Want great art? Neither. Want good art? Neither.


----------



## Furious George (Aug 22, 2013)

Angelator said:


> Yusuke = Maeda through and through. Just because he was the first protag of that kind that you met, it doesn't make him original or "anything but typical". It's just that it was really fucking popular in Japan and outside Japan, hence people suck Togashi's cock like there's no tomorrow.
> Look, I really like Yusuke's character, but he's by no means "not typical" or "original", though you haven't claimed the latter me thinks.



So than your argument is because "Yusuke is like this one other character, he is completely typical and nothing is special about him?" 

First off, that argument can work for anything. Mankind has been telling stories for millenniums now so there is no such thing as truly original. You will have a very fucking hard time trying to convince me that Yusuke is typical though. You understand the difference between the two words judging by your last sentence so you know exactly what I mean.


----------



## x5exotic (Aug 22, 2013)

Black Leg Sanji said:


> Has OP had any chapter as awful like this


About 700 actually 


Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Davy Back was nothing like Greed Island.
> 
> To the Luffy part LMAO.


Yes.



Angelator said:


> Also, HxH's just average. The only reason people find it "so good" is perhaps because it has Nen. There's not much outside that, unless Togashi suddenly starts improving his art drastically or creates more satisfying stories focusing less on fighting tactics.


HxH is the manga with least action and most stories, jist because it's not your
Cliche 'beat the bad guy that pissed you off earlier that arc' doesnt mean it's not satisfying.
It has actual writing. 

And when it comes to fights, they are well explaijed and make sense so that they arent just cop out asspulls to end the arc story conveniently.



Furious George said:


> You never said that.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Except you did not.


----------



## JoJo (Aug 22, 2013)

OP is one of the best manga I've ever read
Battle Tendency in it's self was top 5 material ever
Bleach was very entertaining to me
Part 2 of Hokuto no Ken felt like a re-write of part 1 with outside interference from a third party in the "brotherhood of the Hokuto brothers" and part 3 of HnK had a bad ending.
DB is an extremely good series
Joseph Joestar was one of the best characters I've ever seen.

That's all for now


----------



## x5exotic (Aug 22, 2013)

JoJo, wut.


----------



## ~Howling~ (Aug 22, 2013)

Moar.I need moar .


----------



## Ramius (Aug 22, 2013)

You don't get it: my point was that Togashi didn't work even nearly as hard to create such a character like Yusuke (which is the reason why people praise YYH), when he had the exact same shit running just about 2 years earlier than YYH with a copy-cat main character, for most of the part.
Though his inspiration is from a manga with no supernatural and powerlevels, so it might as well be Togashi's merit that he managed to include a similar character in a manga involving a lot of supernatural and unrealistic fights.


As I said few pages ago: "Yusuke's quite the interesting part of the cast though". I stand by that statement. But I'd also like to point out that Togashi was lazy in creating Yusuke.
In other words: the character IS good, but the author still remains trash.


----------



## OS (Aug 22, 2013)

>Proud maker of this thread


----------



## Renegade Knight (Aug 22, 2013)

I will say that Togashi has his priorities straight.


Fucking his hot Sailor Moon mangaka wife >>>>>>> writing HxH

:ignoramus


----------



## Fujita (Aug 22, 2013)

White Hawk said:


> Shhh,Killua has the best character development in history,what are you talking about?
> 
> And Meruem the best characterization.
> 
> HxH is so gud.



Luffy is the best shounen protagonist, period.

Doflamingo has just the best characterization.

OP is so gud

I'm so cool for going against the hipster OP fan crowd going against the hipster HxH fan crowd

...am I doing this right?

C'mon Mario  



Furious George said:


> Okay, can we stop the bashing? Please?
> 
> I'll attempt a real discussion here...
> 
> ...



Ooh, a real discussion.

I'll bite. 

Eh, Killua runs away from his family before even meeting Gon. Gon's just sort of his anchor in the normal world, first friend and all that. So yeah, it's about the power of Gon's friendship. Or at least, that is Killua's driving force. It's a fair assessment.

How it unfolds is pretty cool, though. Particularly Killua's conflict with Illumi over the whole affair. And how that ties into Killua having to get over not only the killing people thing (which, interestingly enough, he never really does... he may not slaughter willy-nilly but his compunctions against it are still far lower than most people's), but also the enforced cowardice Illumi's stuck in his brain. He's fighting off the conditioning he's been given since birth, yes, with Gon as his guide. 

And during the Alluka affair Gon actually starts taking less precedence. Him freeing Alluka becomes less and less for Gon's sake as he decides that he needs to protect her, taking a final stand against his brother not on Gon's behalf but on his own. And then he separates from Gon, making this a little less about just the power of friendship.

He never had anything quite as funny as Yusuke getting told to get the fuck out of a woman's house because he cavalierly (is that even a word... spellcheck seems to think so, I'll just run with it ) referred to humans as food.


----------



## Renegade Knight (Aug 22, 2013)

Joseph >>> Jotaro

Oh, wait. This isn't controversial.


----------



## Kirito (Aug 22, 2013)

HXH is good because of Nen period. No one's disrespecting one of the best to come out of WSJ. It just so happens that some ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".) returned to fanboy the hell out of the Hunter X Hunter, a great shounen series.

My controversial opinion: HXH is a shounen dependent on the cliches of an action series. Nothing is wrong with cliches, Togashi does it so well. However, it lacks variety and appeal imo. Take away the system of Nen (which is just IMO more complex and understandable energy manipulation) and HXH will be on the levels of a consistent Part 1 Naruto (Land of Waves consistent). Still a great manga though.

Btw I'll be expecting a report soon.


----------



## Wolfgang Grimmer (Aug 22, 2013)

hxh is good because of nen AND the characters, how they interact with each other and the scenarios given.


----------



## Mihawk (Aug 22, 2013)

Naruto is the worst of the Big 3 and a terrible, steaming pile of cow defecation. 
Though i imagine that by now, that fact is more akin to consensus, than controversy.


----------



## x5exotic (Aug 22, 2013)

I mean look at at this way:
FT and OP and  YYHp: power of will = power up, ass pulls, and all

HxH: simply not giving up while being tortured by Hanzo, still weaker, and still getting the shit kicked out pf him, but like a man. 

The main hate for HxH is because of focusing on story rather than action, and most people in the shonen genre expect a DBZ derivative, so they pick one of the other shonens as a descendant of that.


----------



## Renegade Knight (Aug 22, 2013)

I like the trivial belief that HxH doesn't focus on action.


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Aug 22, 2013)

Bleach Battle System>HXH 

Also HXH has a crap ton of action.


----------



## x5exotic (Aug 22, 2013)

Renegade Knight said:


> I like the trivial belief that HxH doesn't focus on action.



Well they skipped a whole tournament for developing killua and gon.
And yorknew, zoldyck,election and chimera arc endings speak for themselves

Not saying hxh has no action, it's an action-adventure after all, it just doesnt dwell too much on it like it IS the story, it's a means to tell the story, and it'sa incorporated into the context well (not just final arc line up fights) 
And when it comes to fight, they are well written too, whereas some other series' main story suffer from bad writing.



The fact that every one piece fan is here trying to bash it w/o arguments shows how intimidating the writing is


----------



## Furious George (Aug 22, 2013)

Fujita said:


> Ooh, a real discussion.
> 
> I'll bite.
> 
> ...



Well, fuck me. Intelligent life. +rep and good feeling all around.  

You make a strong case particularly about the Alluka stuff.

Still though, its all so.... I wanna say "typical", but after my last post that would probably be the wrong word... I'll say "unsurprising". Killua's development has been very unsurprising to me. Cool things are happening to bring out the progression, but said progression is going in a very straight line. I daresay I find Gon's miniscule development more interesting because there are more twists and turns in his characterization. Yusuke's development, on the other hand, only seems to be a typical delinquent story when it really wasn't. If anything, it subverts that kind of story in lots of cases.


----------



## SAFFF (Aug 22, 2013)

Greed Island was better than York Shin.


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Aug 22, 2013)

x5exotic said:


> I mean look at at this way:
> FT and OP and  YYHp: *power of will = power up, ass pulls, and all
> *
> HxH: simply not giving up while being tortured by Hanzo, still weaker, and still getting the shit kicked out pf him, but like a man.
> ...



Yea no. Thats only Fairy tail, and a little tiny bit with YYH and One piece. 

But you can't talk Adult Gon ring a bell, perhaps Kurapika and his giant ass full of tricks. Alluka and his ever bigger ass full of magic.


----------



## Furious George (Aug 22, 2013)

S.A.F said:


> Greed Island was better than York Shin.



You kiss your mother with that mouth?


----------



## Renegade Knight (Aug 22, 2013)

x5exotic said:


> Well they skipped a whole tournament for developing killua and gon.
> And yorknew, zoldyck,election and chimera arc endings speak for themselves
> 
> Not saying hxh has no action, it's an action-adventure after all, it just doesnt dwell too much on it like it IS the story, it's a means to tell the story, and it'sa incorporated into the context well (not just final arc line up fights)
> ...



We don't need to waste time writing contrived paragraphs, when we can easily sum it up in a few short sentences. 
ck


----------



## x5exotic (Aug 22, 2013)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Yea no. Thats only Fairy tail, and a little tiny bit with YYH and One piece.
> 
> But you can't talk Adult Gon ring a bell, perhaps Kurapika and his giant ass full of tricks. Alluka and his ever bigger ass full of magic.



All were explained with Nen, so yeah I can talk.


But COC? The power of will... Literally create aspulls?
All the shit ussop and nami pull out pf their asses?
Luffy, Zoro and sanji's asspulls every arc? They are hilariously expected by the fans
Every cliche is supposed to be at the end and they have become a regularity.

Only watched half of yyh but that clown giving them shit... Wut.



@renegade, you do, if what you're saying doesnt make sense, let alone be considered a good argumet.


----------



## Renegade Knight (Aug 22, 2013)

> argues about asspulls
> doesn't know what an asspull is


----------



## x5exotic (Aug 22, 2013)

Wolfgang Grimmer said:


> hxh is good because of nen AND the characters, how they interact with each other and the scenarios given.





Yep. Pretty much all around good qualities.
The subtle psychological fights and themes are a greatly
Underappreciated good side as well



Renegade ok good boy.


----------



## Renegade Knight (Aug 22, 2013)

x5exotic said:


> @renegade, you do, if what you're saying doesnt make sense, let alone be considered a good argumet.







x5exotic said:


> Renegade ok good boy.



Concession accepted.


----------



## x5exotic (Aug 22, 2013)

Posting a troll face was the concession no? Anyway, I'm actually starting to feel sad, you have to convince yourself that you won an argument, not only to yourself, but on the thread as well. So I guess you really need that 'win'
Here, take it.


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Aug 22, 2013)

x5exotic said:


> All were explained with Nen, so yeah I can talk.
> 
> 
> But COC? The power of will... Literally create aspulls?
> ...



You don't know what a ass pull is do you. Giving a explanation changes nothing, Hiro Mashima gives explanations for his power-ups in fairy tail, they are still massive ass pulls.

Anyway i would love your explanations. 

What ass pulls does CoC create?
What crap does Usopp and Nami pull every arc thats a ass pull?

Luffy, Zoro, and Sanji i guess you are referring to stuff like G2 and the other new stuff, if you read the manga it was explained. 

Also you have only watched half of YYH, come back when you read all of it.


----------



## Renegade Knight (Aug 22, 2013)

x5exotic said:


> Posting a troll face was the concession no? Anyway, I'm actually starting to feel sad, you have to convince yourself that you won an argument, not only to yourself, but on the thread as well. So I guess you really need that 'win'
> Here, take it.



>thinks a troll face is a concession
>thinks this was a legit argument
>gives another man an imaginary "win"

This is too easy.


----------



## x5exotic (Aug 22, 2013)

Yes it does. That's what it means, previously mentioning the advent of an asspull doesnt change it from being an asspull
"In 200 chapters there will be an asspull"

"An explanation doesnt change"
What kind of nonsense is that?
Explanations are everything. Anything is an asspull without it.
The opposite of an asspull is a well explained thing.

Yes. hiro and oda DO try to explain *at times*, but their explanations dont really explain anything. They just leave it there "deal with it"



Renegade, so, claiming i thought it was a legit argument eh? And you just claimed that you 'won?' hahahaha


----------



## Renegade Knight (Aug 22, 2013)

I thought your reading comprehension was better than that, man.

But I guess I should have known better.


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Aug 22, 2013)

x5exotic said:


> Yes it does. That's what it means, previously mentioning the advent of an asspull doesnt change it from being an asspull
> "In 200 chapters there will be an asspull"
> 
> "An explanation doesnt change"
> ...



No Hiro explains his stuff perfectly clear its still complete bull shit. 

Adult Gon is no different from Natsus Nakama Punch aka Power of Feelings letting them take there Nen/Magic to another level in order to defeat a much stronger opponent.


----------



## Kirito (Aug 22, 2013)

x5exotic said:


> All were explained with Nen, *so yeah I can talk.*





> But you can't talk Adult Gon ring a bell, perhaps Kurapika and his giant ass full of tricks. Alluka and his ever bigger ass full of magic.



explain it then. we're just here.


----------



## Morglay (Aug 22, 2013)

This thread truly never ends.


----------



## SAFFF (Aug 22, 2013)

Furious George said:


> You kiss your mother with that mouth?



Sometimes


----------



## Renegade Knight (Aug 22, 2013)

Morglay said:


> This thread truly never ends.



But it is an easy way to get +1 though


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Aug 22, 2013)

Although i will say Alluka is more of a MASSIVE Deus Ex Machina, but its still bull crap.


----------



## Kirito (Aug 22, 2013)

You know, sometimes the power of friendship, when done right, isn't such a bad thing. FMA used it in the final fight against Father and no one was criticizing the series for it. It's just that when the theme is overdone like Fairy Tail or goes against logic that it affects the story like Naruto, is when it becomes bad.

Shounen was built on themes like friendship and camaraderie. You'd think a wannabe elitist connoisseur of manga would know that, because he seems to be equating friendship = asspulls = bad right now, which isn't the case generally.


----------



## x5exotic (Aug 22, 2013)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> No Hiro explains his stuff perfectly clear its still complete bull shit.
> 
> Adult Gon is no different from Natsus Nakama Punch aka Power of Feelings letting them take there Nen/Magic to another level.



Except he never took it to another level, so it was the opposite of an asspull

Nastus powers are like the gomu gomu stuff. Just asspull after another.

If it is explained within the system, then it's not really another level.

I still dont understand how an explanation doesnt justify it since it's the only thing that could. Disencouraging the use of logic much?

By your logic, any new thing is an asspull, and only recycled material is not. I know op recycles a lot but it still creates too many asspulls. Every arc has at least more than i could count with one hand.

So only alluka can be considered an asspull really, and only the command part i mean.

Next level magic? Try haki, try having 2 DFs, try every thing woth sanji and zoro, te mok technology of ussop and nami, and the gears of luffy and before that, the random gomu gomus he used.


----------



## SAFFF (Aug 22, 2013)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> No Hiro explains his stuff perfectly clear its still complete bull shit.
> 
> Adult Gon is no different from Natsus Nakama Punch aka Power of Feelings letting them take there Nen/Magic to another level in order to defeat a much stronger opponent.



Yeah there was no excuse for that but at least it had a nasty consequence where Gon was reduced to a hunk of melted flesh.


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Aug 22, 2013)

x5exotic said:


> Except he never took it to another level, so it was the opposite of an asspull



Never took it to another level?

So Kid Gon is on the same level as the King



> Nastus powers are like the gomu gomu stuff. Just asspull after another.



Sure they are. 



> If it is explained within the system, then it's not really another level.



Ezra's newest bull crap armor is explained within the system. Not sure if your caught up on fairy tail, but just check the fairy tail section or other fourms its cause quite the outrage. 



> I still dont understand how an explanation doesnt justify it since it's the only thing that could. Disencouraging the use of logic much?



Because a Ass Pull can't be justified its a Ass pull.

Now how Ass pull is pulled off, the effects it has during and after, or how its explained can make it better or worse then other ass pulls.

For example i will take Night mare luffy over Nakama Natsu any-day, both are ass pulls. 


> By your logic, any new thing is an asspull, and only recycled material is not. I know op recycles a lot but it still creates too many asspulls. Every arc has at least more than i could count with one hand.



No only new things that are bull shit and not consistent with the story. Luffy coming up with new moves that don't contradict him being a rubber man is fine. Gon becoming a Grown man not so much.



> So only alluka can be considered an asspull really, and only the command part i mean.



Alluka is more of a duex x Machina, with a little ass pull sprinkled on top.

Adult gon is the worse, Kurapika would be the next one i say, followed by Kite. 


> Next level magic? Try haki, try having 2 DFs, try every thing woth sanji and zoro, te mok technology of ussop and nami, and the gears of luffy and before that, the random gomu gomus he used.



The manifestation of someones Will power aka Haki is not a ass pull. It was shown from the very start, and slowing explained and developed. Black-beard is a ass pull yes. Everything Sanji and Zoro does is a ass pull how so?

You explained it your self, this is a manga you know its not kept in the bounds of are own rules. Nothings wrong with what Usoop and Nami do they use science and technology of the op world to use there attacks. Luffy is a rubber man, whats a ass pull about his attacks?

Keep in mind im not trying to argue that One piece has no ass pulls. Its a Shonen Action/Adventure manga of course it does. So does HXH and 99.9 percent of every other manga.

*Anyways believe what you want im done lol. HXH is perfect. *


----------



## JoJo (Aug 22, 2013)

x5exotic said:


> Except he never took it to another level, so it was the opposite of an asspull
> 
> Nastus powers are like the gomu gomu stuff. Just asspull after another.
> 
> ...



Haki has yet to be explained in detail from where it came from. 
The process from which BB stole the strongest Paramecia has yet to be explained.  

That is due to a long story and it cannot be called an ass-pull

What the fuck does "te mok technology" even mean?
and same with the random "Gomu Gomu used"


----------



## x5exotic (Aug 22, 2013)

The mock* technology, typo.

"Yet to be explained"
According to DD, explanations do not matter.


----------



## Renegade Knight (Aug 22, 2013)

JoJo said:


> Haki has yet to be explained in detail from where it came from.



"Where it came from?"
It's been present since the first chapter and introduced in Skypiea. 
Not sure what you're getting at.


----------



## Kirito (Aug 22, 2013)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Luffy is a rubber man, whats a ass pull about his attacks?



he can pull his ass literally.

OP asspull confirmed run for the hills   



Renegade Knight said:


> "Where it came from?"
> It's been present since the first chapter and introduced in Skypiea.
> Not sure what you're getting at.



jojo is right. it hasn't been explained yet, nor has it been revealed where it originated. at least, that's how i interpreted his post


----------



## Renegade Knight (Aug 22, 2013)

Kirito said:


> jojo is right. it hasn't been explained yet, nor has it been revealed where it originated. at least, that's how i interpreted his post



It's willpower in physical form.
It's pretty much been explained where it comes from and what it does.
It's the same as ki, spirit energy, etc.


----------



## JoJo (Aug 22, 2013)

x5exotic said:


> The mock* technology, typo.
> 
> "Yet to be explained"
> According to DD, explanations do not matter.


They do matter. It's obvious it's gonna be explained what haki is, how it was invented, why it was invented, etc. etc. 


Renegade Knight said:


> "Where it came from?"
> It's been present since the first chapter and introduced in Skypiea.
> Not sure what you're getting at.


Haki has yet to be explained *in depth*. Why is was invented, who invented it, when, why, and all that stuff. Like BB getting 2 DFs has yet to be explained but it will be. That doesn't make it an ass-pull.


----------



## JoJo (Aug 22, 2013)

Kirito said:


> jojo is right. it hasn't been explained yet, nor has it been revealed where it originated. at least, that's how i interpreted his post


which is what I'm saying


Renegade Knight said:


> It's willpower in physical form.
> 
> It's the same as ki, spirit energy, etc.


but it has yet to be explained in great detail.


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Aug 22, 2013)

x5exotic said:


> The mock* technology, typo.
> 
> "Yet to be explained"
> According to DD, explanations do not matter.



Just to be clear im saying explanations don't change a Ass pull. Not giving one could make one that depends on what happened/what it is. 

Here is what a Ass pull is to me for the most part. 



> This can also be used to describe when, in a TV show or movie, a character comes up with a never-before-seen power just in the nick of time, therefore winning the fight. An ass pull either has a completely unbelievable explanation or the writer conveniently forgets to add one in.



Although you should refrain from calling certain things Ass pulls because of lack of information, due to the fact the Author might be waiting for a better time to explain it. Aka the Author is not just saying go along with it just because.

*Sure Hiro gave us a explanation as to why Ezra can do what she does, which is nice. Still complete shit. *


----------



## Null (Aug 22, 2013)

Renegade Knight said:


> "Where it came from?"
> It's been present since the first chapter and introduced in Skypiea.
> Not sure what you're getting at.



Being present in the storyline =/= Knowing its origins


----------



## Renegade Knight (Aug 22, 2013)

JoJo said:


> Haki has yet to be explained *in depth*.


This I agree with.



> Why is was invented, who invented it



I didn't know you could invent willpower. 

It's basically the same as Ki, except less flashy and more mental-based.


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Aug 22, 2013)

Knowing the Origins of Haki? Do we need to know the Origins of chakra? or Nen, or spiritual pressure other then what we have already been given?

Its apart of the body, everyone has it, and they can potentially learn to control, use it, and make it stronger. 

What more do you need lol.


----------



## x5exotic (Aug 22, 2013)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Never took it to another level?
> 
> So Kid Gon is on the same level as the King



What are you taking about? I'm saying the transformation is not out of the Nen system, hence, the explanation.






> Ezra's newest bull crap armor is explained within the system. Not sure if your caught up on fairy tail, but just check the fairy tail section or other fourms its cause quite the outrage.



and I'm supposed to care about FT fans raging because...?





> Because a Ass Pull can't be justified its a Ass pull.
> 
> Now how Ass pull is pulled off, the effects it has during and after, or how its explained can make it better or worse then other ass pulls.
> 
> ...


----------



## jNdee~ (Aug 22, 2013)

War of the Centuries


----------



## SAFFF (Aug 22, 2013)




----------



## OS (Aug 22, 2013)

Mashima has tasteless fanservice.


----------



## JoJo (Aug 22, 2013)

Renegade Knight said:


> This I agree with.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Well the manifestation of will-power in use of combat.


Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Knowing the Origins of Haki? Do we need to know the Origins of chakra? or Nen, or spiritual pressure other then what we have already been given?
> 
> Its apart of the body, everyone has it, and they can potentially learn to control, use it, and make it stronger.
> 
> What more do you need lol.


I'm more or less talking about the mechanics of haki. Chakra, nen (from what I know of it) reiatsu, ki, and other forms of energy are made from like nature from your physical body.

but a power of Haki is made from your will power and spirit. It'd be better if we got to know more about the mechanics of haki and why it is was invented because it seems to be a power connected with the DFs.


----------



## Renegade Knight (Aug 22, 2013)

Quality. 



JoJo said:


> Well the manifestation of will-power in use of combat.
> 
> I'm more or less talking about the mechanics of haki. Chakra, nen (from what I know of it) reiatsu, ki, and other forms of energy are made from like nature from your physical body.
> 
> but a power of Haki is made from your will power and spirit. It'd be better if we got to know more about the mechanics of haki and why it is was invented because it seems to be a power connected with the DFs.



Oda probably hasn't gone so in detail about Haki yet because

A) He's trying to keep it somewhat enigmatic for future reveals.

or

B) It's just that simple.


----------



## x5exotic (Aug 22, 2013)

JoJo said:


> They do matter. It's obvious it's gonna be explained what haki is, how it was invented, why it was invented, etc. etc.
> 
> Haki has yet to be explained *in depth*. Why is was invented, who invented it, when, why, and all that stuff. Like BB getting 2 DFs has yet to be explained but it will be. That doesn't make it an ass-pull.




I don't care how it was invented, that doesn't matter, chi or whatever is supposed to be some latent energy in everyone, and everyone should be content with that.

And no explanation explains its absence in the first half of the story. top-tiers talk aside, it was bound to be shown somewhere, like how the hell did Croc not have it, or how the hell did he amount to anything when he got beat up by alabasta luffy while other lords bested him easily later on without even using haki (which they have, some of them). 

It just _wasn't_ there, it got introduced suddenly, and that is an asspull.

The introduction of Haki was an attempt at pulling something the same way Nen was introduced, to keep the engine running since the series is going for another 15 years of release and having DFs alone would cause a fatigue, especially with all the uninspired, redundant additions of "snow DF", and the like.

Now if we dwell into it, CoC itself is just... an unapologetic asspull: the power of will itself. As a POWER UP. I mean, they were already winning via power of will asspulls, did they have to make a super power out of it?

The CoA for luffy was an asspull too, a pointless one since Hodi was a god damn joke.


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Aug 22, 2013)

x5exotic said:


> What are you taking about? I'm saying the transformation is not out of the Nen system, hence, the explanation.



I never said it was out of the Nen system. 

I was referring to the massive Strength Gain Gon got and his nen going up beyond his current level. 








> and I'm supposed to care about FT fans raging because...?



 I don't care if you care about the fairy tail fans it was a example. 




> First, you still haven't proven how it's on a new level,



Cause Gon went from fodder to the royal guards to king level. 



> and secondly, you still never proved how an explanation still makes it an asspull, how is the use of logic make something out of thin air?



The Same way Hiro out right saying Natsu's power-ups come from his feelings does not change it from a ass pull. 



> Gon growing up doesn't contradict with enhancement.



conveniently gaining a Massive amount of strength with no prior foreshadowing or training is a Massive ass pull.



> Actually, luffy being rubber doesn't justify it at all. How he conveniently uses new powers at the end just to beat the enemy either.



How does it not Justify it? Luffy is made out of rubber so his body can do rubber things?

The closet thing to a ass pull Luffy has done power wise is Red Hawk. Everything else is well within his powers which is the ability to stretch cause you know thats what rubber does.

Rubber doing what Rubber does is not a ass pull. 

And what are these new powers at the end do you speak off. Luffy is a brawler his powers are kicking and punching the crap out of you. 



> explained, explained, and explained.



Thats nice.




> 1) No it wasn't. Oda tried to connect it to earlier chapters but failed, creating inconsistencies.



inconsistencies such as?




> 2) How is being mentioned before make it justified anyway? That's the cheapest excuse I've heard. Cowardly announcing that you're gonna sell out and use an asspull doesn't justify it.



Cause it establishes it in the world of one piece.

Might as well call Chakra/Ninjutsu, Ki, and Nen ass pulls as well. 



> 3) Sanji and Zoro's asspulls are self explanatory. Classic YYH/DBZ asspulls.



Ok


> The technology of dials wasn't there, it just came out of nowhere, you're gonna try to explain it by saying it was on Skypiea? But then again, explanations don't matter to you.



Technology of dials was not were?

On a pirate ship lead by a idot with no money? All the technology in the world not being in Luffys grasp from the start is not a ass pull. That makes perfect sense. 


> 1) Ussop, pulling random tricks out of his ass at the end of every arc, dude, don't try, it's bluntly put a gadget belt (Batman)



Such as?


> 2) Nami, "let's do some random magic at convenient times and *call it* science.



Magic?

Nami's ability's are based on science and technology my friend. 

Want to talk about magic lets talk about Alluka?


> 3) Luffy, his gomu gomu in the first place, and the gears secondly, the general haki thirdly, and finally the CoC
> Haki specifically. That's what.



1. How is the Gomu Gomu a ass pull?

2. Gears.

3. Haki

Explain please. 


> What's ironic is that you are trying to explain these asspulls going against your own belief that asspulls can't be explained.



The only thing im doing is saying why they are not ass pulls. Since you seem to be confused. 



> I know, FT, OP, Bleach and DBZ have the most asspulls I've seen in... any entertainment industry/medium.



Then you have not seen or read much stuff in your life then. 



> *And yet it has only one asspull*. And has broken many asspulls too, so it's specifically the 0.01% you left out there



Nope.


----------



## Renegade Knight (Aug 22, 2013)

x5exotic said:


> I don't care how it was invented, that doesn't matter, chi or whatever is supposed to be some latent energy in everyone, and everyone should be content with that.



Just like how I don't care how Nen was invented. 


> And no explanation explains its absence in the first half of the story.


Shanks used it in the first chapter, Enel, Aisa, and the Priests used CoO constantly, Garp used it in Water 7, etc.

Remember this is all *the first half*.


> top-tiers talk aside, it was bound to be shown somewhere, like how the hell did Croc not have it, or how the hell did he amount to anything when he got beat up by alabasta luffy while other lords bested him easily later on without even using haki (which they have, some of them).



Because Haki isn't a necessity to be a Shichibukai, and Croc lounged off in Paradise, where there are few Haki users to give him trouble.



> It just _wasn't_ there, it got introduced suddenly, and that is an asspull.


> an unnamed power that's been around since the beginning is an ass-pull

top lel



> The introduction of Haki was an attempt at pulling something the same way Nen was introduced, to keep the engine running since the series is going for another 15 years of release and having DFs alone would cause a fatigue, especially with all the uninspired, redundant additions of "snow DF", and the like.



Yeah, that's definitely the reason why.

Says x5exotic, Oda's editor.



> Now if we dwell into it, CoC itself is just... an unapologetic asspull: the power of will itself. As a POWER UP. I mean, they were already winning via power of will asspulls, did they have to make a super power out of it?



Oh shit. The power of the spirit and life energy.
They're winning fights with life energy. 
Like Nen. 

top lel



> The CoA for luffy was an asspull too, a pointless one since Hodi was a god damn joke.



Translation: "If I can't think of a legitimate argument, I'll just call it an asspull because I'm smart like that."


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Aug 22, 2013)

Well i got stuff to do.

We shall agree to disagree as always X5exotic. Knight can take care of things anyway.


----------



## Xiammes (Aug 22, 2013)

Whats going on this thread? Some kind of shit flinging contest?


----------



## Renegade Knight (Aug 22, 2013)

Xiammes said:


> Whats going on this thread? Some kind of shit flinging contest?



Something like that. 

Except one guy likes to eat his shit and cover himself in it.


----------



## x5exotic (Aug 22, 2013)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> I never said it was out of the Nen system.


So it wasn't an asspull.



> I was referring to the massive Strength Gain Gon got and his nen going up beyond his current level.



Togashi didn't bring the power to Gon, he brought Gon to the power.
I mean, Togashi made it clear it's impossible for Gon, the 13 year old gon, the current one, to beat Pitou, that alone, shows how it's not an asspull.

So what he needed was an ability. One that was foreshadowed during the yorknew-GI transition, with Wing and Kurapika's convos; he needed to enhance himself to the age where he could beat Pitou, and so he did.

Assuming he was 25, this is saying Gon wouldn't be as strong as Pitou for ~12 years.

And then we have the conditions, which were that he could only do that at that instant (it wasn't permanent like 2nd/3rd gear/SSJ, etc.., being used at his disposal). The effects on him as well. 









> I don't care if you care about the fairy tail fans it was a example.



And I don't care if you care about me caring about the fairy tail example.



> Cause Gon went from fodder to the royal guards to king level.



Nope. Gon, the adult being as strong as they are makes perfect sense.



> The Same way Hiro out right saying Natsu's power-ups come from his feelings does not change it from a ass pull.



And still not proving how it was an asspull.




> conveniently gaining a Massive amount of strength with no prior foreshadowing or training is a Massive ass pull.



There was prior foreshadowing, much unlike the instances in FT/OP.

And foreshadowing alone doesn't do it. Explanation is the major way of avoiding an asspull.





> How does it not Justify it.



According to me: they are not explained well, they come out of nowhere, they are conveniently there when they are needed.

According to you: they were not foreshadowed.



> And what are these new powers at the end do you speak off. Luffy is a brawler his powers are kicking and punching the crap out of you.


New magical punches and kicks, that's an asspull.

You know Gon also used a punch on Pitou so how the hell is using a hand any different.... really, dude?



> Thats nice.


Indeed






> inconsistencies such as?



The ones I mentioned above, the lack of its existence, and Shanks losing his arm to that Sea King. 




> Cause it establishes it in the world of one piece.
> 
> Might as well call Chakra/Ninjutsu, Ki, and Nen ass pulls as well.




So you're saying you have to go BACk, look and see if it's established, and judge whether it's an asspull? Sounds like explanation to me.


But they weren't established in one piece, though.

Nen was already established and foreshadowed, (which oda tried to mimic as I mentioned), and using an already established system to explain it, so I guess your subconscious and I agree on my point. 





> Technology of dials was not were?
> 
> On a pirate ship lead by a idot with no money? All the technology in the world not being in Luffys grasp from the start is not a ass pull. That makes perfect sense.



It wasn't in the world of one piece. 

So you're trying to *explain* it (I'm rubbing that word in your face whenever given the chance), by saying they were off-screen? That's not a good excuse. Luffy keeps visiting new islands, and they weren't there. They were introduced in Skypiea, they were said to be something culture-related that wasn't found everywhere, so yeah. Asspull.

And if we're gonna use the "it was just off-screen" stuff, then there'd be no asspulls left...anywhere 




> Such as?


watch/read One Piece.



> Magic?
> 
> Nami's ability's are based on science and technology my friend.


Yes, they "call" it science, but it's not.

How she activates said scientific phenomenon/power is out of thin air.

Can you explain it to me in real-life science?
Can you explain it with an already established system in one piece?



> Want to talk about magic lets talk about Alluka?



Sure, I'll go find the wiki link that shows all the rules that explain how it works.




> 1. How is the Gomu Gomu a ass pull?
> 
> 2. Gears.
> 
> ...


Already have.




> The only thing im doing is saying why they are not ass pulls. Since you seem to be confused.



You are trying to give me examples of how they are explained i.e not really asspulls. Not doing a good job but you trying shows that you don't really believe in your own claim about explanations.





> Then you have not seen or read much stuff in your life then.


I thought this type of argument was only on MAL.
And maybe not, my life goal isn't to watch every series out there and count the asspulls in it, but out of the ones I watched, those are the big 4.




> Nope.



Our discussion says otherwise.


----------



## x5exotic (Aug 22, 2013)

Renegade Knight said:


> Just like how I don't care how Nen was invented.
> 
> Shanks used it in the first chapter, Enel, Aisa, and the Priests used CoO constantly, Garp used it in Water 7, etc.



Proof? So far it looks like just him giving the classic shonen stare of death.
Enel used some new power that was changed to be part of something else. 
Haki came out in Sabaody/Lily's arc





> Because Haki isn't a necessity to be a Shichibukai, and Croc lounged off in Paradise, where there are few Haki users to give him trouble.



Being strong is though.
And in retrospect with all the new asspulls it is inconsistent. 



> > an unnamed power that's was never there and introduced later is an asspull
> 
> top lel


Fix'd






> Yeah, that's definitely the reason why.



Yep.


> Says x5exotic, Oda's editor.


Oh don't flatter him.




> Oh shit. The power of the spirit and life energy.
> They're winning fights with life energy.
> Like Nen.


No, the power of friendship and will.




> Translation: "If I can't think of a legitimate argument, I'll just call it an asspull because I'm smart like that."



Oh I forget the why; yeah, suddenly creating armor and magic fire punches and other random powers using a system that was out of the ass... seems legit.


----------



## x5exotic (Aug 22, 2013)

> ]Well i got stuff to do.
> 
> We shall agree to disagree as always X5exotic.



Sure, same here. Gotta hit the gym (see not an asspull) and then play Last of Us (heh not really different from forum stuff anyway)





> Knight can take care of things anyway.



Haha nice one


----------



## Renegade Knight (Aug 22, 2013)

x5exotic said:


> Proof? So far it looks like just him giving the classic shonen stare of death.
> Enel used some new power that was changed to be part of something else.
> Haki came out in Sabaody/Lily's arc


What makes you so sure it was changed? 
Oh. I forgot. You're Oda's editor.  
Haki was first mentioned by BB in Jaya. Shanks used CoC ouright again on Whitebeard's ship, where it was also referred to as "Haki".
I guess you need things spoon-fed to you. 



> Being strong is though.


Croc's not strong? lel



> And in retrospect with all the new asspulls it is inconsistent.


"Asspull" is pretty much your default word when you can't make a good, constructed argument, as I stated prior.




> Fix'd



I'm glad I got corrected by the editor for Eiichiro Oda.
Everything he says must be true.



> Oh don't flatter him.



I flatter him for his vast amount of patience. 



> No, the power of friendship and will.



And the same thing keeping Gon and Killua together.
Gotta have that young boy love, amirite? 



> Oh I forget the why; yeah, suddenly creating armor and magic fire punches and other random powers using a system that was out of the ass... seems legit.



Suddenly, turning into an Adult because the plot demands it is also legit. 
And more tip-toeing around my arguments. 

:the greatest lel


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## Reyes (Aug 22, 2013)




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## Byrd (Aug 22, 2013)

Did I seriously just see that Haki was an asspull?

Did I see that Luffy having CoA was an asspull?


Please tell me I didn't


----------



## Reyes (Aug 22, 2013)

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 10 (6 members and 4 guests)
BlueDemon, Es, *x5exotic*

What are you doing m8?

Thought you had stuff to do.



x5exotic said:


> Sure, same here. Gotta hit the gym  and then play Last of Us


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## Dellinger (Aug 22, 2013)

Whatever Luffy does is an asspull 

Whatever Gon does is not 

Simple as that 

Haki being mentioned by Teach,Haki being used by the Skypeians,Shanks using Haki,Garp damagind Luffy.

Everything is an asspull.


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## Byrd (Aug 22, 2013)

How exactly is Haki an asspull and Luffy getting CoA an asspull when we have it being mentioned by several characters as well as the basic foundation of it mention by Rayleigh and we even seen him mentioning to Luffy that he would train him the basics of all three.. which the panels showed 


Do you know what an asspull is?

An asspull is when a writer pulls something completely out the blue without foreshadowing it, often ignoring details place about, which often results in plot twist and such

example: A martial artist has been training in the water style and has been using it for battles... during one battle he is up against an element who he is weak too... then in the mist of battle he uses a new element to defeat his opponent.

This new element wasn't mention before


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## Dellinger (Aug 22, 2013)

Also he compares the power of friendship with Haki


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## Renegade Knight (Aug 22, 2013)

Byrdman said:


> How exactly is Haki an asspull and Luffy getting CoA an asspull when we have it being mentioned by several characters as well as the basic foundation of it mention by Rayleigh and we even seen him mentioning to Luffy that he would train him the basics of all three.. which the panels showed
> 
> 
> Do you know what an asspull is?



He doesn't. It's his safety cushion for when he gets backed into a corner by a sound argument.


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## P-X 12 (Aug 22, 2013)

The Kage Summit Arc is, in my opinion, currently the worst (completed) arc in Naruto, and probably the worst arc in the HST and honestly most arcs in FT (note the word *most*). 

Seriously, how do you completely destroy all three main characters within a single arc?


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Aug 22, 2013)

Phx12 said:


> The Kage Summit Arc is, in my opinion, currently the worst (completed) arc in Naruto, and probably the worst arc in the HST and honestly most arcs in FT (note the word *most*).
> 
> *Seriously, how do you completely destroy all three main characters within a single arc?*



It is no simple task thats for sure.

^OS it looks like he did oh snap its on.


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## OS (Aug 22, 2013)

This is the second person to take a sig. 1 was one I actually made. Smh.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Aug 22, 2013)

Phx12 you gone messed up son.


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## Nightfall (Aug 22, 2013)

I'm not that fond of Haki. I enjoyed DF variations a lot more. 

Not sure what would have been better than Haki, but meh..Just something else imo.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Aug 22, 2013)

^Well Oda needed to come up with something to counter the crazy devil fruits, otherwise he would have to come up with some special weakness for everyone HAX df in order for luffy and the others to defeat them.

Which IMO would be kind of meh. Or of course not make any HAX DF at all, which is also MEH to me. As the Logia fruits, and Laws among others are pretty awesome.


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (Aug 22, 2013)

yeah, haki is the answer to everything these days


meh


----------



## Renegade Knight (Aug 22, 2013)

Tashigi has haki and look how well she's faired.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Aug 22, 2013)

Fluttershy said:


> yeah, haki is the answer to everything these days
> 
> 
> meh



To a certain extent.


----------



## Ramius (Aug 22, 2013)

It took like 2 OPtards and 1 HxHtard (or 2-3 overall if you count the ones that argued decently in the beginning) to simply destroy the thread. Welllllll now, is this the official HxH vs OP thread?


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Aug 22, 2013)

One piece>HXH so no need to debate on that.


----------



## Zuhaitz (Aug 22, 2013)

I would have personally preferred if the answer to counter Logias would have been finding the particular weakness of the element and using it. But Haki is not only an answer to counter hax DFs, but also the answer to how do non DF users get to the top. And also an really interesting secondary power which everyone can achieve and use in different ways by training. That way the DFs can remain as something "exceptional" that only "a few" have.


----------



## Byrd (Aug 22, 2013)

Angelator said:


> It took like 2 OPtards and 1 HxHtard (or 2-3 overall if you count the ones that argued decently in the beginning) to simply destroy the thread. Welllllll now, is this the official HxH vs OP thread?



>not realising this thread was doom from the get-a-go


----------



## Ramius (Aug 22, 2013)

Ye, great. Now let's discuss Jin Roh. Is there even anything similar to it outside Akira and GITS? Little Red Riding Hood is cool and all


----------



## x5exotic (Aug 22, 2013)

Well, OPtards just cant get over the fact that their series is no better than  fairy tail 
This thread is about controversial opinions, and that statement seemed to cause a lot of, controversy, yet np one could disprove it


----------



## Furious George (Aug 22, 2013)

I'm just wondering how in the blue hell this thread managed to get *3* stars.


----------



## x5exotic (Aug 22, 2013)

Zuhaitz said:


> I would have personally preferred if the answer to counter Logias would have been finding the particular weakness of the element and using it. But Haki is not only an answer to counter hax DFs, but also the answer to how do non DF users get to the top. And also an really interesting secondary power which everyone can achieve and use in different ways by training. That way the DFs can remain as something "exceptional" that only "a few" have.



Not a chance of that with the new white zetsu style mass manufacturing of DF.
And countering DF is no excuse for introducing something out of their ass. A clever weakness fouhd would have been good.


----------



## OS (Aug 22, 2013)

Furious George said:


> I'm just wondering how in the blue hell this thread managed to get *3* stars.



quality thread.


----------



## Dellinger (Aug 22, 2013)

Zuhaitz said:


> I would have personally preferred if the answer to counter Logias would have been finding the particular weakness of the element and using it. But Haki is not only an answer to counter hax DFs, but also the answer to how do non DF users get to the top. And also an really interesting secondary power which everyone can achieve and use in different ways by training. That way the DFs can remain as something "exceptional" that only "a few" have.



Haki just gives you the chance you fight against Logias.
It doesn't make sure that'll you win though.

See the fight versus Monet and Tashigi or Akainu having taking Haki attacks from Marco and Vista without problem.


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Aug 22, 2013)

x5exotic said:


> Not a chance of that with the new white zetsu style mass manufacturing of DF.
> And countering DF is no excuse for introducing something out of their ass. *A clever weakness fouhd would have been good*.



Nah. Every devil fruit having a weakness that the Strawhats just so happen to be able to exploit would be god awful. 

Also Haki was used more and foreshadowed more then Nen before it was explained, not to mention you can do a crap ton of crazy stuff with Nen unlike haki. But of course HXH is perfect so Nen in your mind has no problems.


----------



## x5exotic (Aug 22, 2013)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Nah. Every devil fruit having a weakness that the Strawhats just so happen to be able to exploit would be god awful.
> 
> Also Haki was used more and foreshadowed more then Nen before it was explained, not to mention you can do a crap ton of crazy stuff with Nen unlike haki. But of course HXH is perfect so Nen in your mind has no problems.



Dont get me wrong, never said the croc/enel weaknesses were clever.

And no.
op was never planned to go for that long so that alone shows haki never existed then. 
Shanks chapter 1 = death glare
Mantra = something that got connected to it later.

Also nen was foreshadowed in about over 5 instances. All were actual foreshadowings.


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Aug 22, 2013)

x5exotic said:


> Dont get me wrong, never said the croc/enel weaknesses were clever..



Not saying you did. I am just saying everyone having a weakness would be lame. 


> And no.
> op was never planned to go for that long so that alone shows haki never existed then.
> Shanks chapter 1 = death glare
> Mantra = something that got connected to it later.



1. haki was introduced in Chapter 1, so Oda not planning One piece from the get go to be very long is irrelevant.

2. Mantra is actual haki use in action just with a different name. Which is more then Nen got. Hisoka just came out and started using it to fodderize Killua and Gon which for whatever reasons he did not feel like using in the past. 




> Also nen was foreshadowed in about over 5 instances. All were actual foreshadowings.




Haki was introduced and used Early in the manga, we just did not get a detail explanation intil later. 

Same with nen.

Haki did not make people go OMG whats that, this makes no sense. We already knew what it was more so then nen.


----------



## x5exotic (Aug 22, 2013)

It is relevant, it shows he had no plans for whatever is coming next apart from the ending and maybe a couple stories he pushed back to part 2.


And again you have no proof shanks used haki. 
Neither mantra being part of a bigger haki thing.
 So complete non existence = no haki
 Hisoka always used Nen, as shown, and he disnt use it to a great extent because, all applicants were foddr -- he still doesnt use it much

That and there are 5 characters who foreshadowed nen other than hisoka.


----------



## Byrd (Aug 22, 2013)

Angelator said:


> Ye, great. Now let's discuss Jin Roh. Is there even anything similar to it outside Akira and GITS? Little Red Riding Hood is cool and all



In terms of movies.... probably Appleseed, 


in terms of Quality... Graves of the Fireflies, Sword of the Stranger,


----------



## Byrd (Aug 22, 2013)

x5exotic said:


> It is relevant, it shows he had no plans for whatever is coming next apart from the ending and maybe a couple stories he pushed back to part 2.
> 
> 
> *And again you have no proof shanks used haki.
> ...



Have you been reading One Piece? Because this is completely wrong


----------



## Renegade Knight (Aug 22, 2013)

x5exotic said:


> It is relevant, it shows he had no plans for whatever is coming next apart from the ending and maybe a couple stories he pushed back to part 2.



Except you have no proof that whether that he planned for One Piece to go on for five years was before or after it was serialized. 
Your whole point is moot anyway.



> And again you have no proof shanks used haki.



It was confirmed by Word of God. Deal with it. 



> Neither mantra being part of a bigger haki thing.



Not only do you not have any idea what an asspull is, it seems that your idea of foreshadowing is rather poor, too. 



> So complete non existence = no haki



Sure thing, mang.



> Hisoka always used Nen, as shown, and he disnt use it to a great extent because, all applicants were foddr -- he still doesnt use it much


Nah, Hisoka having Nen was an asspull. Non existence = no Nen. 



> That and there are 5 characters who foreshadowed nen other than hisoka.



Cool story.


----------



## Kirito (Aug 22, 2013)

Black Leg Sanji said:


> Has OP had any chapter as awful like this



You hypocrite! Oda is not on the same level as Togashi! Togashi can submit his drafts directly if he wanted to, not to mention his art in that chapter is just artistic license! Oda has consistently bad art with people who don't look human, it's just that plebs eat it up that's why it's famous!

Hunter X Hunter sales in the Top 5 = Quality series
One Piece sales in the Top 1 = Justin Bieber is famous, is he a good quality singer?

5 star thread.


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Aug 22, 2013)

x5exotic said:


> It is relevant, it shows he had no plans for whatever is coming next apart from the ending and maybe a couple stories he pushed back to part 2.
> 
> 
> And again you have no proof shanks used haki.
> ...



You really don't know anything do you

1. Shanks in chapter 1 used Cotc it was stated by Oda himself. Can't argue with the Author exotic. 

2. Mantra=Haki. If you read the manga you would know that, Mantra is the name the Skypeians call haki.

3. No Hisoka did not always use Nen. 

4. I am not arguing that Nen was not foreshadowed. I'm saying Haki was fore shadowed as well. 
*
It did not come out of no where with no one having no idea what it was. * If you feel that it was then your just a idot plain and simple, or did not read the manga.


----------



## x5exotic (Aug 22, 2013)

Mantra was mantra till haki was asspulled and mantra became part of haki. Unless you csn prove otherwise.
Also mantra itself was an asspull the moment it got introduced.

Oh, oda says it. Of course, to cover up for inconsistencies and asspulls. You need PROOF. So far i think over 5 people argued against it and none was able to give proof. It says something.

And yes hisoka kept using it frequently, in the forest and on his cards and in the forest again.


4- and im arguing that you still have no solid proof.


> It did not come out of no where with no one having no idea what it was. If you feel that it was then your just a idot plain and simple, or did not read the manga.



"Agree or you're an idiot"
Great logic, mate.


----------



## leokiko (Aug 22, 2013)

x5exotic said:


> "Agree or you're an idiot"
> Great logic, mate.



Except you are applying the same logic. Therefore, you are being a hypocrite.


----------



## x5exotic (Aug 22, 2013)

Where did i call him an idiot? Where did I attack? 5 against 1 and i'm still the one with valid points. Why?
I'm making actual points. It makes it easy. So there.


----------



## Byrd (Aug 22, 2013)

x5exotic said:


> Mantra was mantra till haki was asspulled and mantra became part of haki. Unless you csn prove otherwise.
> Also mantra itself was an asspull the moment it got introduced.
> 
> Oh, oda says it. Of course, to cover up for inconsistencies and asspulls. You need PROOF. So far i think over 5 people argued against it and none was able to give proof. It says something.
> ...



I will bite

There have been several cases in which Haki was used before Oda basically stated it was Haki... you would have more grounds to your argument if it only happen once but since Oda consistency showed us examples or subtle hints (foreshadowing, or Conservation of Detail).. that automatically excluded it from being an asspull.


----------



## x5exotic (Aug 22, 2013)

Byddman
1) as said before, foreshadowing doesnt exclude from being an asspull. All bleach asspullls are him genersting more aura, and aura always existed. Doesn't mena it's not an asspull.
2) as said before, author statements dont count. Of course he'll tryto cover up by connecting things.
3) what are those hints? Prove that they were actual hints? Not retrospectively connected to the haki.first and foremost start with the shanks one... Any solid proof?


----------



## Fujita (Aug 22, 2013)

x5exotic said:


> And yes hisoka kept using it frequently, in the forest and on his cards and in the forest again.



Scans please

Or something a little more specific than what you just said 

So I know exactly where you're seeing the Nen foreshadowing


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Aug 22, 2013)

x5exotic said:


> Mantra was mantra till haki was asspulled and mantra became part of haki. Unless you csn prove otherwise.
> Also mantra itself was an asspull the moment it got introduced.
> 
> Oh, oda says it. Of course, to cover up for inconsistencies and asspulls. You need PROOF. So far i think over 5 people argued against it and none was able to give proof. It says something.
> ...



1. Haki was shown, and we were given the word Haki before Mantra. Read the Manga.

2. Mantra was a ass pull when it was introduced How?

3. I am giving you the same proof you are for nen. You say Nen was foreshadowed and used before, i say the same thing for Haki. Am i missing something here? You saying no its not does not change anything, just like me saying nen was not foreshadowed changes nothing. If you can't see that Haki was foreshadowed then i can't help you, i can't read the manga for you. 

4. If i don't neither do you. Only thing you are doing is arguing agasint stuff shown and stated in the manga. If you would like some panels or chapters of stuff im referencing all you have to do is ask nicely.

5. Yes arguing agasint stuff shown and stated by the author does make you a idot i am afraid.


----------



## Byrd (Aug 22, 2013)

x5exotic said:


> Byddman
> 1) as said before, foreshadowing doesnt exclude from being an asspull. All bleach asspullls are him genersting more aura, and aura always existed. Doesn't mena it's not an asspull.
> 2) as said before, author statements dont count. Of course he'll tryto cover up by connecting things.
> 3) what are those hints? Prove that they were actual hints? Not retrospectively connected to the haki.first and foremost start with the shanks one... Any solid proof?



The fact that he intimidated the Sea King towards retreating... 

and note the magical word... *intimidated*

on Whitebeard ship... there was a mentioning of it being his *spirit * when he knock out those guys 

Mantra allows one to sense another *Presence* again this is before it is called Haki

These are the words Rayleigh said



> "Haki" is a power that lies dormant in all the world's creatures... "Presence", "fighting spirit" and "intimidation"... It is not different from the things that humans can naturally sense such as these... 'The act of not doubting'. That is strength!


----------



## OS (Aug 22, 2013)

Give my thread 5 stars, you fools!


----------



## x5exotic (Aug 22, 2013)

@DD 
Oh this is gold, now he's making stuff up about haki xD
Ok mr. When was it called haki before?

2) mantra was an asspull (assuming it was indeed psrt of haki) because it's some new magic powers outside of DF. All of a sudden a new type of power introduced. Bascially the same way haki was an asspull.

3) yes. You already agreed that nen was foreshadowed so no point in me trying to prove it.
You however need to proof, proof and more proof

4) except it was never stated. If it was you'd have mentioned it without restarting to the "author said" card or making stuff up.


5) hmmm the fanboy in you is hurt.

@fujita

In zevil island, hisoka spotted kurapika and leorio the same way netero spotted the chimera ants, by using aura between fingers like a binocular (through enhancement and maybe gyo)

Again when tracked by gon, he used Ren
He used shu to make his cards cut like they did.
If you want non-hisoka nen usage then just ask


----------



## Dellinger (Aug 22, 2013)

Teach talked about Luffy's Haki back in Jaya for fuck's sake


----------



## The Doctor (Aug 22, 2013)

You trolls are boring

at least "Bleach is a philosphical masterpiece" guy was funny


----------



## x5exotic (Aug 22, 2013)

Byrdman said:


> The fact that he intimidated the Sea King towards retreating...
> 
> and note the magical word... *intimidated*
> 
> ...




Presense, intimidation, spirit, sensory, you're just naming typical shonen tropes found in every actuon anime.


----------



## The Doctor (Aug 22, 2013)

or that blender genious girl who thought that mangas for kids were too much for kids to handle

c'mon guys you can do better than that


----------



## Byrd (Aug 22, 2013)

x5exotic said:


> Presense, intimidation, spirit, sensory, you're just naming typical shonen tropes found in every actuon anime.



Except in One Piece they are given a name aka Haki



> You trolls are boring
> 
> at least "Bleach is a philosphical masterpiece" guy was funny



I remember this


----------



## Renegade Knight (Aug 22, 2013)

White Hawk said:


> Teach talked about Luffy's Haki back in Jaya for fuck's sake



Which came *before* Skypiea.

x5exotic is like a toddler with a shitty diaper. :ignoramus


----------



## Renegade Knight (Aug 22, 2013)

x5exotic said:


> Presense, intimidation, spirit, sensory, you're just naming typical shonen tropes found in every actuon anime.



Just like Nen.


----------



## Louis Cyphre (Aug 22, 2013)

x5exotic said:


> Presense, intimidation, spirit, sensory, you're just naming typical shonen tropes found in every actuon anime.


What the bloody hell you're talking about?
Byrdman's point is that Haki has been foreshadowed early on series


----------



## x5exotic (Aug 22, 2013)

Byrdman said:


> Except in One Piece they are given a name aka Haki
> 
> 
> 
> I remember this



So they suddenly make it literal and make a super power of it; asspull

I know they call it haki, now I demand proof that they were always part of haki, not shonen tropes turned to asspull generators


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Aug 22, 2013)

x5exotic said:


> @DD
> Oh this is gold, now he's making stuff up about haki xD
> Ok mr. When was it called haki before?
> 
> ...



1. Jaya which was before Skypeia. 

2. Ok You say it was a ass pull cause it was a new magic power? Was nen not a new power? I don't recall seeing a bunch of nen powers being used during the Hunter Exam. If so Panels or chapters when they were used would be nice? If nen was used did you know it was Nen? Cause Haki was used in the past, we just did not have a name for it. Also with that logic anything besides Devil fruits is a ass pull then, it being new does not make it a ass pull. 

3. Already did prove it. Haki was foreshadowed, Stated, shown, and eventually explained in detail. All you need to do is read the manga its in English so keep looking for it. 

4. You making light of it does not change that Oda writes this manga. You have Zero authority to say Shanks did not use Cotc aka haki. Unless you have evidence that proves what he did was not CotC? If so please post it. 

5. Very much so, i might need to go to the hospital.


----------



## x5exotic (Aug 22, 2013)

Louis Cyphre said:


> What the bloody hell you're talking about?
> Byrdman's point is that Haki has been foreshadowed early on series



And these things are not foreshadowings. They are found in every shonen.
I NEED you to show me these foreshadowings, ACTUAL ONES


----------



## OS (Aug 22, 2013)

ITT


----------



## Kirito (Aug 22, 2013)

x5exotic said:


> @DD
> Oh this is gold, now he's making stuff up about haki xD
> Ok mr. When was it called haki before?





Coruscation said:


> When BB sees Luffy's 100 million bounty at Jaya, he says:
> 
> _"Large Man: Hundred million... I thought thirty was odd for a kid with such ambition, but THIS...!!"_
> 
> ...



Don't think he's a troll though. I always see him in other boards posting shit about OP too.


----------



## The Doctor (Aug 22, 2013)

Original Sin said:


> ITT
> 
> *Spoiler*: __



ur thread

ur responsability


----------



## Null (Aug 22, 2013)

x5exotic said:


> So they suddenly make it literal and make a super power of it; asspull
> 
> I know they call it haki, now I demand proof that they were always part of haki, not shonen tropes turned to asspull generators


----------



## Byrd (Aug 22, 2013)

x5exotic said:


> *So they suddenly make it literal and make a super power of it; asspull*
> 
> I know they call it haki, now I demand proof that they were always part of haki, not shonen tropes turned to asspull generators



.......



> And these things are not foreshadowings. They are found in every shonen.
> I NEED you to show me these foreshadowings, ACTUAL ONES



Reread the definition of Haki again, and you should see how it relates to "those shonen tropes"


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Aug 22, 2013)

x5exotic said:


> And these things are not foreshadowings. They are found in every shonen.
> I NEED you to show me these foreshadowings, ACTUAL ONES



Ok i get it.

So what your saying is that the things we are saying may seem like foreshadowing but its actually just typical, Shonen, cliche stuff that a lot of manga have aka fake foreshadowing that the author uses to pull off ass pulls. Unlike the real foreshadowing, and usage of nen in HXH. 

Is what i just said correct or am i still missing something here.


----------



## OS (Aug 22, 2013)

The Doctor said:


> ur thread
> 
> ur responsability



>implying I am bothered and not enjoying

huehuehue


----------



## Kirito (Aug 22, 2013)

Original Sin said:


> >implying I am bothered and not enjoying
> 
> huehuehue



i rated it 5 stars :33


----------



## The Doctor (Aug 22, 2013)

i thought the "ur" was enough to imply sarcasm

anyway, you can't enjoy a thread with such boring trolls

damn, i miss phenom and sousuke aizen


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Aug 22, 2013)

I already gave this thread 5 stars, not much more i can do.


----------



## Kirito (Aug 22, 2013)

The Doctor said:


> i thought the "ur" was enough to imply sarcasm
> 
> anyway, you can't enjoy a thread with such boring trolls
> 
> damn, i miss phenom and sousuke aizen



so youre a hipster now?

there will always be a new breed you just hating


----------



## Xam (Aug 22, 2013)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Ok i get it.
> 
> So what your saying is that the things we are saying may seem like foreshadowing but its actually just typical, Shonen, cliche stuff that a lot of manga have aka fake foreshadowing that the author uses to pull off ass pulls. Unlike the real foreshadowing, and usage of nen in HXH.
> 
> Is what i just said correct or am i still missing something here.


Nah you pretty much nail the hit on the head there.


----------



## The Doctor (Aug 22, 2013)

and i would really like to know when people started thinking that brazilians go huehuehuehue all the time


----------



## Xam (Aug 22, 2013)

Thread is 4 stars now.
Obviously.


----------



## The Doctor (Aug 22, 2013)

Kirito said:


> so youre a hipster now?
> 
> there will always be a new breed you just hating



all breeds have their rotten eggs son

this here just isn't entertaining


----------



## OS (Aug 22, 2013)

Jajajajaja


----------



## The Doctor (Aug 22, 2013)

jajajajajaja are for the spanish speakers


----------



## Byrd (Aug 22, 2013)

The Doctor said:


> all breeds have their rotten eggs son
> 
> this here just isn't entertaining



The last entertaining thread here was that thread mentioning the masterpiece of Bleach.. remember it being compared to Shakespeare


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Aug 22, 2013)

I always thought Mexicans and all the other Hispanics laughed like Moria.


----------



## Xam (Aug 22, 2013)

Byrdman said:


> The last entertaining thread here was that thread mentioning the masterpiece of Bleach.. remember it being compared to Shakespeare


Tell me your joking.
pls bryd.
pls tell me that was a joke.


----------



## OS (Aug 22, 2013)

The Doctor said:


> jajajajajaja are for the spanish speakers



I know. Huehuehuehue


----------



## Kirito (Aug 22, 2013)

Byrdman said:


> The last entertaining thread here was that thread mentioning the masterpiece of Bleach.. remember it being compared to Shakespeare



it was only entertaining for the first 4 pages. then it became shite and got buried for the better of mankind.


----------



## The Doctor (Aug 22, 2013)

solid trolling that one


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Aug 22, 2013)

Was it not Syhper who started that Bleach was a master piece thing?


----------



## The Doctor (Aug 22, 2013)

it was MadmanRobz


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Aug 22, 2013)

Well we need him back, funny stuff indeed.


----------



## x5exotic (Aug 22, 2013)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> 1. Jaya which was before Skypeia.



So? Mantra was still a different power that came out of nowhere.

Also what came in Jaya? Please don't tell me it's some inspirational line with the word spirit/power that you decided to link to haki.



> 2. Ok You say it was a ass pull cause it was a new magic power? Was nen not a new power? I don't recall seeing a bunch of nen powers being used during the Hunter Exam. If so Panels or chapters when they were used would be nice? If nen was used did you know it was Nen? Cause Haki was used in the past, we just did not have a name for it. Also with that logic anything besides Devil fruits is a ass pull then,



Wait. I thought you acknowledged nen being foreshadowed? You going back on your word because losing an argument is frustrating you that much? Seriously?
And yeah, people used nen in the hunter exam, the very first arc, foreshadowing its reveal in the HA arc.

"haki was used in the past"
still no proof.



> it being new does not make it a ass pull.


That's the opposite of what you said before. Compromise, compromise. Funny since the whole "new = asspull" was me going by your logic. But still, mantra came out of nowhere, without proper explanation OR foreshadowing, so in either argument, it's an asspull.







> 3. Already did prove it. Haki was foreshadowed, Stated, shown, and eventually explained in detail. All you need to do is read the manga its in English so keep looking for it.



No. You said shanks sued it, and still haven't proven that. So you're not really going anywhere with this.




> 4. You making light of it does not change that Oda writes this manga. You have Zero authority to say Shanks did not use Cotc aka haki. Unless you have evidence that proves what he did was not CotC? If so please post it.



I do have the authority to say.
The burden of proof lies on you, not me, by the way.




@Byrdman, oh I just came up with a new super power, what do I do to not make it an asspull? oh I know, connect it to these shonen cliches and make it look like they were literally super powers.

You making claims that a death stare is haki is not sufficient. Your claim or Oda's claim alike. Give me content proof.


----------



## Hozukimaru (Aug 22, 2013)

Implying that it's not a masterpiece.


----------



## p-lou (Aug 22, 2013)

shut up             .


----------



## Hozukimaru (Aug 22, 2013)

By the way i read the part in HxH when Hisoka looks through a cyrcle made by his fingers today  and i didn't undestand that he used any superpowers.  
Hisoka does lots of wierd things and i thought that it was one of them.


----------



## x5exotic (Aug 22, 2013)

Me too, all this time... I got mindfucked. (still looked more fab on him than Netero)


----------



## Reyes (Aug 22, 2013)

x5exotic said:


> snip


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Aug 22, 2013)

Hozukimaru said:


> Implying that it's not a masterpiece.




Oh its a master piece.

just not the kind most people think of when they read/hear that word.


----------



## x5exotic (Aug 22, 2013)

It is quite encouraging that all the people against me have OP avatars, related names, or I know personally they are hardcore OP fans , quite the controversy, and they know I'm right


----------



## Null (Aug 22, 2013)

I already used that image a page back ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".)


----------



## Hozukimaru (Aug 22, 2013)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Oh its a master piece.
> 
> just not the kind most people think of when they read/hear that word.



Seriously, even though it's far from a masterpiece i'd say that it's a good manga.


----------



## Reyes (Aug 22, 2013)

Null Void said:


> I already used that image a page back


Were do you think I got it from 

Its good for whenever he posts.


----------



## Louis Cyphre (Aug 22, 2013)

x5exotic said:


> It is quite encouraging that *all the people against me have OP avatars, related names*, or I know personally they are hardcore OP fans




*Very amused*


----------



## x5exotic (Aug 22, 2013)

What is that?


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Aug 22, 2013)

x5exotic said:


> So? Mantra was still a different power that came out of nowhere.



So its a different power even though it does the same things and was out right stated to just be a different word for the same thing.

Do go on. 


> Also what came in Jaya? Please don't tell me it's some inspirational line with the word spirit/power that you decided to link to haki.



BB commenting on Haki, using the word Haki. Which he also uses again later on.





> Wait. I thought you acknowledged nen being foreshadowed? You going back on your word because losing an argument is frustrating you that much? Seriously?
> And yeah, people used nen in the hunter exam, the very first arc, foreshadowing its reveal in the HA arc.



I do acknowledge it. 

I am trying to understand what differences there is from Shanks using Haki and us not knowing what its called, and Hisoka using Nen and us not knowing what it was.

And yet both of us consider Hisoka using it as foreshadowing, but only i think Shanks using haki is foreshadowing. 

So something is missing on my part, i need you to fill in the blanks here. 




> "haki was used in the past"
> still no proof.



Shanks used it, Enel used it, Boa's Sisters used it, Sentomaru used it, White-beard used it. 



> That's the opposite of what you said before. Compromise, compromise. Funny since the whole "new = asspull" was me going by your logic. But still, mantra came out of nowhere, without proper explanation OR foreshadowing, so in either argument, it's an asspull.



I never said New is automatically a ass pull it can be.

New is a ass pull if it does not make any sense, or it comes out of no where to save someone or solve a problem ect. 

Mantra aka Haki does have foreshadowing. 







> No. You said shanks sued it, and still haven't proven that. So you're not really going anywhere with this.



Already did. 

Oda said he used it, what Shanks used has the same effects of Cotc. 

What your saying would be like me saying Adult Gon did not get that way cause of Nen.




> I do have the authority to say.
> The burden of proof lies on you, not me, by the way.




i already proved it. The burden of proof is on you to counter what i said, and saying i am wrong is not a counter im afraid.



Hozukimaru said:


> Seriously, even though it's far from a masterpiece i'd say that it's a good manga.



I agree, people do rip on bleach to much. 

The current arc is pretty good.


----------



## Reyes (Aug 22, 2013)

x5exotic said:


> It is quite encouraging that all the people against me have OP avatars, related names, or I know personally they are hardcore OP fans , quite the controversy, and they know I'm right


----------



## Hozukimaru (Aug 22, 2013)

Louis Cyphre, the new pirate king.
Totaly OP related.


----------



## Byrd (Aug 22, 2013)

I clearly got a OP avatar and sig... This guy is a Yonko and he got Machine Gun Fruit...

He is walking down the hallway to find OP as we speak now


----------



## Louis Cyphre (Aug 22, 2013)

Hozukimaru said:


> Louis Cyphre, the new pirate king.
> Totaly OP related.


oh yeah
I'm the Demon King pirate
I will bring *chaos* to the seas with my crew


----------



## Renegade Knight (Aug 22, 2013)

[YOUTUBE]mnJ0vzBlaUw[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Kirito (Aug 22, 2013)

x5exotic said:


> It is quite encouraging that all the people against me have OP avatars, related names, or I know personally they are hardcore OP fans , quite the controversy, and they know I'm right



You know, this is how you argue:

*1. Bait and hook.*

"Hunter x Hunter is a godly shounen, far better than Fairy Tail, Bleach, One Piece, and Naruto."

*2. Reeling it in.*

"I grouped OP with FT, Bleach, and Naruto because it has so many inconsistencies."

*3. When faced with a valid point, argue strawmen.*

"If it's not said it's Haki, it's not Haki."
"Mantra is not Haki, it's not called the same."
"I'll ignore Kirito's post about the script itself being translated to show that Haki has been foreshadowed by its name since Jaya."
"Adult Gon, Kurapika's powers, and Alluka's Deus Ex can all be explained with Nen."
"Things with explanations aren't asspulls. Therefore, Erza's Nakagami Starlight isn't an asspull. Stay salty, OPtard."
"But I used your logic, that's why I'm not wrong."
"Provide scans of Haki being foreshadowed tard, while I myself won't provide scans of Nen being used before it was being proven because Togashi is better than Oda."

*4. Repeat again and again and again until people tire out and you laugh yourself the winner.*



> It is quite encouraging that all the people against me have OP avatars, related names, or I know personally they are hardcore OP fans , quite the controversy, and they know I'm right



You can all go home now guys, leave the poor sod to his shallow happiness.


----------



## Bubyrd Ratcatcher (Aug 22, 2013)

Byrdman said:


> I clearly got a OP avatar and sig... This guy is a Yonko and he got Machine Gun Fruit...



That would be cool, Franky should upgrade himself with a machine gun 

Laser beams are an asspull


----------



## Byrd (Aug 22, 2013)

> oh I just came up with a new super power, what do I do to not make it an asspull? oh I know, connect it to these shonen cliches and make it look like they were literally super powers.
> 
> You making claims that a death stare is haki is not sufficient. Your claim or Oda's claim alike. Give me *content proof*.



What type of content proof? You disregarded it all


----------



## Kirito (Aug 22, 2013)

btw I got Red the Pirate King
he has the Pokemon Pokemon fruit
He wants to be the very best
That no one ever was


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Aug 22, 2013)

I think you missed this bro, i would like response please. 



x5exotic said:


> And these things are not foreshadowings. They are found in every shonen.
> I NEED you to show me these foreshadowings, ACTUAL ONES



Ok i get it.

So what your saying is that the things we are saying may seem like foreshadowing but its actually just typical, Shonen, cliche stuff that a lot of manga have aka fake foreshadowing that the author uses to pull off ass pulls. Unlike the real foreshadowing, and usage of nen in HXH. 

Is what i just said correct or am i still missing something here.


----------



## Lee-Sensei (Aug 22, 2013)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Luffy was a Pusey but he got his shit together and got strong.



So did Ichigo.



> Ichigo on the other hand just got cuddled by his friends via ass pull power up and them helping him.



No he didn't.



> Or in other words.
> 
> Luffy=former Pussy
> 
> Ichigo=Still a Pussy



OPtards... never change. They're both pussies, or neither of them are pussies. I'd go as far as to say that Ichigo had it worse. Luffy's brother died and he cried because he was weak. Ichigo, his friends and family were mind raped and trying to kill him and he cried when his dad stabbed him in the chest.



> You know what this is so true, and so sad.
> 
> Tenten, Shikamarus dad, Ao, Inos dad, Temari, Mei, Kiba, Shino, Gai sensei, Hidan, kakuzu, asumas bitch, and some others have absulute crap charcter development.
> 
> ...



Gai has character development. We know his a good deal of his backstory, we know why he is the way he is, we know what he believes and we know about his relationship with the other characters. As for a plot arc to change the character... that's not necessary. He's perfect the way he is, and IMHO one of the few great characters left in Naruto.


----------



## Hozukimaru (Aug 22, 2013)

Only way to know is if we go into Oda's house, threaten him and force him to tell us if he was thinking of Haki when he drew the scene with Shanks and the coast lord or he thought of it later and just lied to us to make it not look like an asspull.


----------



## Kirito (Aug 22, 2013)

Lee-Sensei said:


> I'd go as far as to say that Ichigo had it worse. Luffy's brother died and he cried because he was weak. Ichigo, his friends and family were mind raped and trying to kill him and he cried when his dad stabbed him in the chest.



soo in other words, ichigo was too weak to stop anyone from doing it to his family and friends?

man dont use words that would destroy your whole point


----------



## Byrd (Aug 22, 2013)

This thread needs to hit Cafe Levels so it can be entertaining


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Aug 22, 2013)

Lee-Sensei said:


> So did Ichigo.



Friendship power-up=/= Training for 2 years.

Also he is the same old Ichigo. 





> No he didn't.



So his friends did not give him his powers back?

His friends did not help him defeat the full bringers? 




> OPtards... never change. They're both pussies, or neither of them are pussies.



Sorry i did not know Ichigo and Luffy were clones. That everything Luffy is Ichigo is as well. 






> I'd go as far as to say that Ichigo had it worse. Luffy's brother died and he cried because he was weak. Ichigo, his friends and family were mind raped and trying to kill him and he cried when his dad stabbed him in the chest.



Luffy did not start crying intil after it all happened though, Ichigo did not keep on fighting he just starting being a baby during it. Also its not the first time ichigo has cried or been a bitch about something.

Regardless i have already established that Luffy was a Pussy, hes no longer one though. 

Ichigo is same old bitch Ichigo. 



> Gai has character development


.

Very little. 



> We know his a good deal of his backstory, we know why he is the way he is, we know what he believes and we know about his relationship with the other characters. As for a plot arc to change the character... that's not necessary. He's perfect the way he is, and IMHO one of the few great characters left in Naruto.



Never said he needed Development, he still has very little which was my only point.


----------



## x5exotic (Aug 22, 2013)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> So its a different power even though it does the same things and was out right stated to just be a different word for the same thing.


I'm saying, even if the haki you claim was stated was there, it was nothing mantra/CoO related, making mantra, an asspull.

And again, where was it?





> BB commenting on Haki, using the word Haki. Which he also uses again later on.



"The term "Haki" is a word that has multiple meanings when translated into English. It can mean "ambition", "will power", "drive", "spirit", "vigor" and "aspiration" to name a few."

Yep. Just as expected.




> I am trying to understand what differences there is from Shanks using Haki and us not knowing what its called, and Hisoka using Nen and us not knowing what it was.



It's not about not having a name. It's about not really being used at all*. Shanks staring being anything beyond a trope is still a claim you've yet to prove.* That's my point.



> And yet both of us consider Hisoka using it as foreshadowing, but only i think Shanks using haki is foreshadowing.


Smply because the first is not debatable since it's obvious once Nen is out in the open. The second is because you really love one piece so you'd rather just believe it happened.






> Shanks used it, Enel used it, Boa's Sisters used it, Sentomaru used it, White-beard used it.


Proof of the first one, proof that Mantra was indeed a branch of haki for the second, and (you still didn't answer how mantra alone ain't an asspull), and for the third, I already said it got introduced in Sabody so...




> I never said New is automatically a ass pull it can be.


hmmmm....sure.



> New is a ass pull* if it does not make any sense*, or it comes out of no where to save someone or solve a problem ect.


You just said that no matter how well explained it is it doesn't matter... what the hell? You have a multiple persona or something? Stop contradicting yourself.




> Mantra aka Haki does have foreshadowing.


which is?








> Already did.
> 
> Oda said



Nope. Content proof required.




> What your saying would be *like *me saying Adult Gon did not get that way cause of Nen.


Nope, not like.
Adult gon happened after Nen, and it's not only togashi saying "oh it was nen"... terrible simile.






> i already proved it. The burden of proof is on you to counter what i said, and saying i am wrong is not a counter im afraid.



jackiechatwhat.jpg
Of course you did.


----------



## Louis Cyphre (Aug 22, 2013)

x5exotic said:


> What is that?


Educate yourself before speak horseshit


----------



## Byrd (Aug 22, 2013)

> "The term "Haki" is a word that has multiple meanings when translated into English. It can mean "ambition", "will power", "drive", "*spirit*", "vigor" and "aspiration" to name a few."
> 
> Yep. Just as expected.





> "Haki" is a power that lies dormant in all the world's creatures... "Presence", *"fighting spirit"* and "intimidation"... It is not different from the things that humans can naturally sense such as these... 'The act of not doubting'. That is strength!





> The fact that he intimidated the Sea King towards retreating...
> 
> and note the magical word... intimidated
> 
> ...



Gotcha!!!


----------



## x5exotic (Aug 22, 2013)

> So what your saying is that the things we are saying may seem like foreshadowing but its actually just typical, Shonen, cliche stuff that a lot of manga have aka fake foreshadowing that the author uses to pull off ass pulls. Unlike the real foreshadowing, and usage of nen in HXH.



half-right. It doesn't even SEEM like foreshadowing. It's one thing for toriko to state from the get-go how indimidation and that is an actual superpower (it is an over-the-top manga after all)

and another to suddenly say "remember those cliches you find in shonen well we decided to turn them them into super-powers. Literally"


----------



## Hozukimaru (Aug 22, 2013)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Ichigo is same old bitch Ichigo.



So basically, Bichigo.


----------



## x5exotic (Aug 22, 2013)

@Byrdman, yes. I am saying that he turned them into powers, you reiterating what I'm saying isn't really proof.

I know the quote, I know that he tried to explain how these tropes 



> "Haki" is a power that lies dormant in all the world's creatures... "Presence", "fighting spirit" and "intimidation"... It is not different from the things that humans can naturally sense such as these... 'The act of not doubting'. That is strength!


Yes, we know what chi/aura/latent power is. 

Gotchme again



@Louis, shin megami?... what is this gayness...my eyes hurt. Get it off me.


----------



## Byrd (Aug 22, 2013)

I just realize this is actually taken time from my reads.. I was reading Gunslinger Girl a while ago



> @Byrdman, yes. I am saying that he turned them into powers, you reiterating what I'm saying isn't really proof.
> 
> I know the quote, I know that he tried to explain how these tropes



> trying to change the original argument

> Stay classy


----------



## Sablés (Aug 22, 2013)

Togashi's a terrible mangaka.

Kishi would reck him in a fair dig.


----------



## P-X 12 (Aug 22, 2013)

Original Sin said:


> This is the second person to take a sig. 1 was one I actually made. Smh.



Eh, sorry ,bout that.

Didn't think you'd mind.


----------



## x5exotic (Aug 22, 2013)

How am I trying to change subject?

Anyway, time to sleep, try to keep posts together so I can reply to them easily :3


----------



## Lee-Sensei (Aug 22, 2013)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Friendship power-up=/= Training for 2 years.



Get out of here with this friendship powerup. At least he does train. Other than the timeskip, how much did Luffy train? And yeah. Ichigo trained. As terrible as the Fullbring arc was it was full of training.



> Also he is the same old Ichigo.



Luffy is the same old Luffy.



> So his friends did not give him his powers back?



You mean the Shinigami? Yeah. They did. He got his power from the Shinigami in the first place. So what?



> His friends did not help him defeat the full bringers?



So what? Luffy's friends didn't help him fight Pacifistas in part 1? What does it matter?



> Sorry i did not know Ichigo and Luffy were clones. That everything Luffy is Ichigo is as well.



Red herring. Concession accepted.



> Luffy did not start crying intil after it all happened though,



Um... yes he did. When Ace died he was gone.



He had to have Jinbe, Ivankov, the WB Pirates, the Heart Pirates, *Crocodile* and of all people... Buggy the Clown saving his ass near the end of the war, because he threw a bitchfit and fainted.



> Ichigo did not keep on fighting he just starting being a baby during it.



I'm sorry. I guess I didn't get the point across. Him, his family and his friends were mind raped. He didn't know who he could trust and his dad stabbed him in the chest. If he wants to cry he gets to cry.



> Also its not the first time ichigo has cried or been a bitch about something.



Do you mean like Luffy when Usopp left?

I like Luffy, but I won't let this double standard slide.



> Very little.



We know who his team was, we know how he performed in the Chunin Exams, we know what he was doing when the Kyubi attacked, we know about his relationship with Kakashi, we know about his relationship with Rock Lee... we know more than enough about Gai.



> Never said he needed Development, he still has very little which was my only point.



But that's just it. He has enough development. So that point is moot. Characters like Tenten need development, but Gai is perfectly fine how he is so he shouldn't even be brought up imho.


----------



## Louis Cyphre (Aug 22, 2013)

x5exotic said:


> Louis, *shin megami*?... what is *this gayness*...my eyes hurt. Get it off me.


Confirmed to be terrible as I expected
4/10 troll


----------



## Byrd (Aug 22, 2013)

Remember this 



> And again you have no proof shanks used haki.





> what are those hints? Prove that they were actual hints? Not retrospectively connected to the haki.first and foremost start with the shanks one... Any solid proof?



Now  look at this..



> The term "Haki" is a word that has multiple meanings when translated into English. It can mean "ambition", "will power", "drive", *"spirit"*, "vigor" and "aspiration" to name a few."
> 
> Yep. Just as expected.



What you said



> "Haki" is a power that lies dormant in all the world's creatures... "Presence", *"fighting spirit"* and "intimidation"... It is not different from the things that humans can naturally sense such as these... 'The act of not doubting'. That is strength!



The definition of Haki from a Character



> on Whitebeard ship... there was a mentioning of it being his *spirit* when he knock out those guys



A scene before we got before we receive a term for what Shanks did


----------



## Sablés (Aug 22, 2013)

anyone know when Toriko will be out?

Want dead Ichiryuu already. =/


----------



## Reyes (Aug 22, 2013)

^ this


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Aug 22, 2013)

x5exotic said:


> half-right. It doesn't even SEEM like foreshadowing. It's one thing for toriko to state from the get-go how indimidation and that is an actual superpower (it is an over-the-top manga after all)
> 
> and another to suddenly say "remember those cliches you find in shonen well we decided to turn them them into super-powers. Literally"




And you just proved to everyone with this post that your trolling or really stupid but lets continue. 



x5exotic said:


> I'm saying, even if the haki you claim was stated was there, it was nothing mantra/CoO related, making mantra, an asspull.



Prove it. 



> And again, where was it?



Shanks used it. 





> "The term "Haki" is a word that has multiple meanings when translated into English. It can mean "ambition", "will power", "drive", "spirit", "vigor" and "aspiration" to name a few."
> 
> Yep. Just as expected.



You do read one piece right?

Thats what Haki is. Ambition, will power, drive, spirit, vigor, aspiration manifested by the user. 

As stated in the manga called one piece. 




> It's not about not having a name. It's about not really being used at all*. Shanks staring being anything beyond a trope is still a claim you've yet to prove.* That's my point.



It was used by shanks, and a lot of people. So not sure what your going on about. 

What is this Trope you speak of and what does it have to do with this discussion?




> Smply because the first is not debatable since it's obvious once Nen is out in the open.



Same with haki.



> The second is because you really love one piece so you'd rather just believe it happened.



I could say the same to you.




> Proof of the first one,



Stated as such by the man who writes the manga, and it has the same properties as CotC. 


> proof that Mantra was indeed a branch of haki for the second



Mantra is not a branch of haki.

Mantra=Haki as Stated by the Manga. Look it up if you don't believe me



> , and (you still didn't answer how mantra alone ain't an asspull),



The same way nen is not a ass pull. 

It was used before, and the Skypeains explained what manta was which is the same thing given for Haki because you know they are the same thing. 



> and for the third, I already said it got introduced in Sabody so...



Then whats the problem if Haki was introduced in Sabody?

Is there some time frame i don't know about where stuff is a Permanent ass pull after a certain time?



> hmmmm....sure.



Glad we agree. 



> You just said that no matter how well explained it is it doesn't matter... what the hell? You have a multiple persona or something? Stop contradicting yourself.



I said no matter how well a ASS PULL is explained. Not X or Y i specifically said ASS PULL. 

A ASS PULL IS A ASS PULL. A explanation can only make it better or worse...still a ass pull. 






> which is?



It being stated and used in the past. 






> Nope. Content proof required.



Not sure what that even means. 



> Nope, not like.
> Adult gon happened after Nen, and it's not only togashi saying "oh it was nen"... terrible simile.



Prove it.







> jackiechatwhat.jpg
> Of course you did



I know.



Lee-Sensei said:


> Get out of here with this friendship powerup.



Would you prefer Ass pull?




> At least he does train. Other than the timeskip, how much did Luffy train?



He trained to learn G2 and G3. 



> And yeah. Ichigo trained. As terrible as the Fullbring arc was it was full of training.



I am referring to after the pussy incident. 

Luffy said he was weak he cried, what did he do? Trained for two years.

Ichigo was in a tough spot cried, What did he do? Cry and get powers and help from his friend. 

ZERO GROWTH. 




> Luffy is the same old Luffy.



Minus being a Pussy yes. 



> You mean the Shinigami? Yeah. They did. He got his power from the Shinigami in the first place. So what?



Read above. 





> So what? Luffy's friends didn't help him fight Pacifistas in part 1? What does it matter?



I believe you mean Luffys friends did help him.

Regardless Read above. 




> Red herring. Concession accepted.



Pointing out your flawed logic is a concession now.

Boy times are changing, i need to keep up with this stuff. 



> Um... yes he did. When Ace died he was gone.



Yes i know which is what i was referring to. 

Luffy did not start bitching intil Ace died. 

He was not crying when he was trying to save him. Ichigos friends and family were not dead, and he was not actually hurt and yet here we go instead of trying to save his family and friends he starts crying like a baby. 




> He had to have Jinbe, Ivankov, the WB Pirates, the Heart Pirates, *Crocodile* and of all people... Buggy the Clown saving his ass near the end of the war, because he threw a bitchfit and fainted.



Read Above. 




> I'm sorry. I guess I didn't get the point across. Him, his family and his friends were mind raped. He didn't know who he could trust and his dad stabbed him in the chest. If he wants to cry he gets to cry.



He should of saved his friends and Family first, and if he failed to do so then cry. 





> Do you mean like Luffy when Usopp left?



Yes and we have already established that Luffy was a Pussy, aka Was.

He did not go through two years of training and the death of Ace for nothing. 



> I like Luffy, but I won't let this double standard slide.



Its only a double standard if i say Luffy was never a pussy which i don't recall doing. 





> We know who his team was, we know how he performed in the Chunin Exams, we know what he was doing when the Kyubi attacked, we know about his relationship with Kakashi, we know about his relationship with Rock Lee... we know more than enough about Gai.



Your Point.





> But that's just it. He has enough development. So that point is moot.



my point is not moot as i never said Gai needed Development. I said he does not have a lot. 



> Characters like Tenten need development, but Gai is perfectly fine how he is so he shouldn't even be brought up imho.



I can bring up whoever i want.


----------



## Byrd (Aug 22, 2013)

> The term "Haki" is a word that has multiple meanings when translated into English. It can mean "ambition", "will power", *"drive"*, "spirit", *"vigor"* and "aspiration" to name a few."
> 
> Yep. Just as expected.




Rest my case


----------



## Dellinger (Aug 22, 2013)

Why the fuck are you people still bothering with him?


----------



## Fujita (Aug 22, 2013)

x5exotic said:


> @fujita
> 
> In zevil island, hisoka spotted kurapika and leorio the same way netero spotted the chimera ants, by using aura between fingers like a binocular (through enhancement and maybe gyo)



... I actually never noticed that  



> Again when tracked by gon, he used Ren



You mean En or what? 

Looking over the whole tracking thing, Hisoka never did anything that the generally superhuman examinee cast was incapable of; noticing people before they came into view and the like were all accomplished by the likes of Nen-less Gon and Killua.

If you mean his intimidating aura (which had a similar effect to Illumi and Wing)... shounen cliche ahoy. 

It's nearly exactly the same thing as with Shanks. 



> He used shu to make his cards cut like they did.



In retrospect, yes. 

At the time? As Kalluto says, "Even normal people can cut a chopstick with a business card."

Not like his cards being made of something more durable was ever out of the question. 

For the record? 

I agree all of what you've mentioned is easily foreshadowing. Just not by the criteria you're applying to Haki


----------



## Sablés (Aug 22, 2013)

This guy is obviously a troll and/or idiot. Leaning towards the former as I'm hoping nobody is that stupid.

Why are all of you arguing with him?


----------



## Byrd (Aug 22, 2013)

Sabl?s said:


> This guy is obviously a troll and/or idiot.
> 
> Why are all of you arguing with him?



Practice


----------



## Fujita (Aug 22, 2013)

Sabl?s said:


> This guy is obviously a troll and/or idiot. Leaning towards the former as I'm hoping nobody is that stupid.
> 
> Why are all of you arguing with him?



Kinda want to see what he'll come up with in response


----------



## Reyes (Aug 22, 2013)

Fujita nice ava

Where is it from?


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Aug 22, 2013)

Cause its fun.


----------



## Fujita (Aug 22, 2013)

Hang on, I actually have a controversial opinion

Rachel from Tower of God gets way too much hate

She's a contemptible, backstabbing piece of shit

But with that said? 

She got sent down underground to befriend some random kid locked down there. You really can't tell me that's normal. She spent her time down there dreaming of stars (basically, an escape from whatever her life was down there... it's clear it means a lot more to her than literal stars). And so, she wants to climb the tower.

Problem is, when the doors of the tower open up, she gets told that she's an ugly, unworthy kid who isn't destined for anything. Faces a challenge and balks at it (let's admit it, like each and every one of us would do if faced with that situation, no special powers or whatever). Which is of course the nail in the coffin for her dream; she's really just not cut out for it. 

Then she gets forcibly locked away, sees Baam confront the challenge, evidently cares enough for him to try to tell him not to take it... but she can't reach him and helplessly watches as he walks to his certain death. Except he doesn't die, and he becomes the hero of the story. Leaving her down there.

She sees a chance to get out of it all, and she takes it. 

Betraying the guy who essentially risked his life just to see you again? Horrible. 

But it's not like characters we know and love haven't been perfectly willing to butcher people for their dreams, like Androssi. And she catches a break mainly because she's cooler, and she did it all in the process of becoming stronger and more independent. While Rachel was just a weakling who sold everybody out to get something beyond her means. 

I think she's really kind of a realistic portrayal of how an ordinary, desperate person would act. She's not noble, not admirable in any way, but not some great ultimate evil that she's made out to be.   



Zidane said:


> Fujita nice ava
> 
> Where is it from?



It is some random Feitan fanart I found


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Aug 22, 2013)

I actually did not hate Rachel to much untill she killed the Chicken dude and stabbed Dan.

NOT COOL RACHEL.

Edit: well i think Micheal killed the chicken but she let him so yea.


----------



## Basilikos (Aug 22, 2013)

This is still going?


----------



## Fujita (Aug 22, 2013)

Well, that's her going off the deep end  

Which could arguably make her more sympathetic... 

Though eh, at some point it just goes into diminishing returns, where it doesn't just tragically show how she's been broken and plunges straight into Lurker bashing Nya's skull in levels of depravity.


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Aug 22, 2013)

Oh yes Lurker......I really wanted that Pokemon Bomb to splat his brains everywhere right from the start, but of course the good guys need to forgive and all that crap.


----------



## Renegade Knight (Aug 22, 2013)

We already know Exotic is the resident Huntard X Huntard.


----------



## manidk (Aug 22, 2013)

Is this now one of those Tea Party threads?


----------



## Lee-Sensei (Aug 22, 2013)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Would you prefer Ass pull?



I don't think you know what that means. Because you're not using it right.




> He trained to learn G2 and G3.



I can't remember that. Do you haven any scans?



> I am referring to after the pussy incident.



You're so biased it's pathetic. I can assure you that Ichigo has had more on panel training than Luffy has.



> Luffy said he was weak he cried, what did he do? Trained for two years.



Didn't he throw a bitchfit and cry for a week after Marineford? He had to be saved by *Buggy the Clown*.



> Ichigo was in a tough spot cried, What did he do? Cry and get powers and help from his friend.



There's nothing wrong with getting help from your friends.



> ZERO GROWTH.



Superman doesn't train! What a terrible character. And I can assure you that Ichigo has had more on panel training than Luffy.




> Minus being a Pussy yes.



Give him time.



> Read above.



Read above.



> I believe you mean Luffys friends did help him.
> 
> Regardless Read above.



Another irrelevant point. There's nothing wrong with getting help from your friends.



> Pointing out your flawed logic is a concession now.
> 
> Boy times are changing, i need to keep up with this stuff.



No. Using red herrings so you wouldn't have to admit that they're both 'pussies' by your definition is a concession. It's so pathetic. Get off Luffy's dick.



> Yes i know which is what i was referring to.
> 
> Luffy did not start bitching intil Ace died.
> 
> He was not crying when he was trying to save him. Ichigos friends and family were not dead, and he was not actually hurt and yet here we go instead of trying to save his family and friends he starts crying like a baby.



Trouble reading friend? Ichigo, his friends and his family were mind raped. He didn't know who he could trust and his dad stabbed him in the chest. He had every right to cry.



> Read Above.



Read above.



> He should of saved his friends and Family first, and if he failed to do so then cry.



Luffy should have gotten off the battlefield rather than sit there in the middle of the war right in front of Akainu crying bitchtears.



> Yes and we have already established that Luffy was a Pussy, aka Was.
> 
> He did not go through two years of training and the death of Ace for nothing.



Okay. You do know that Ichigo crying was almost 100 chapters ago. 2 years ago, buddy.


----------



## Fujita (Aug 22, 2013)

manidk said:


> Is this now one of those Tea Party threads?







Lee-Sensei said:


> I can assure you that Luffy has had more on panel training than Luffy has.



Sir, I doubt the verisimilitude of your argument over the menstrual cycles of shounen main characters


----------



## Byrd (Aug 22, 2013)




----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Aug 22, 2013)

Lee-Sensei said:


> I don't think you know what that means. Because you're not using it right.



Ichigo getting his former powers back out of no where, when he is in a really tight spot along with all his friends is a Ass pull. 

Regardless lets just say its not the same thing as Luffy training?





> I can't remember that. Do you haven any scans?



I do not recall where exactly. I believe it was before he starts fighting Bluneo, maybe during. To which i don't recall which chapter he fights bluneo is. 





> You're so biased it's pathetic. I can assure you that Luffy has had more on panel training than Luffy has.



Luffy has trained more then Luffy :ignoramus

Ignoring that the amount of training Ichigo has done compared to Luffy is irrelevant. 

This is the point. 

Both of them were being Babys. 

Luffy got over it and got motivated to be stronger so what did he do? Train. Ichigo got over NOTHING, his friends came and saved him. 

Why does that Matter? Cause it goes back to my point about Ichigo still being a Pussy, UNLIKE LUFFY WHO HAS CHANGED. 






> Didn't he throw a bitchfit and cry for a week after Marineford? He had to be saved by *Buggy the Clown*.



Indeed he did. If your trying to say that Luffy is not the only one who has cried or been a bitch then stop. As i already said he has. 





> There's nothing wrong with getting help from your friends.



Agreed. Friends are their to help, but your friends saving you does not make you Grow as a character in most cases.

Which again goes back to the above points. 




> Superman doesn't train! What a terrible character.



I do consider Superman a bad character, but besides that i am pretty sure he trains. At least i have seen multiple comic panels where he does. 



> And I can assure you that Ichigo has had more on panel training than Luffy.



Thats nice. 




> Give him time.



We got 10+ years.

So lets wait and see if Luffy goes back to his old ways. 





> Read above



Look Below. 











> Another irrelevant point. There's nothing wrong with getting help from your friends.



Read Above. 




> No. Using red herrings so you wouldn't have to admit that they're both 'pussies' by your definition is a concession


. 

Someone has not been reading my posts.

I have already said multiple times that Luffy was a pussy. So yes by my definition Luffy was a pussy, but if you knew the English language you would know was is past tense. 

Luffy is no longer a pussy.

Ichigo still is. 

No red herrings to be found here my friend. 


> It's so pathetic. Get off Luffy's dick.



The only dick i ride is Zoro and Doflamingo.

Luffy can die for all i care, just ask the people in the OL. 





> Trouble reading friend? Ichigo, his friends and his family were mind raped. He didn't know who he could trust and his dad stabbed him in the chest. He had every right to cry.



Awww thats to bad. 

Cry from happiness after you save your family and friends why don't you Ichigo. 

Also again not the only time Ichigo has been a baby. Why are you trying to justify being a Pussy?




> Read above.



Read above. 




> Luffy should have gotten off the battlefield rather than sit there in the middle of the war right in front of Akainu crying bitchtears.



Yes he should of. 




> Okay. You do know that Ichigo crying was almost 100 chapters ago. 2 years ago, buddy.



And has Ichigo grown as a character since then that suggests he is no longer a Pussy?

From what i have seen thats a no.


----------



## Renegade Knight (Aug 22, 2013)

Lee-Sensei said:


> Superman doesn't train! What a terrible character. And I can assure you that Ichigo has had more on panel training than Luffy.


----------



## Renegade Knight (Aug 22, 2013)

> Luffy should have gotten off the battlefield rather than sit there in the middle of the war right in front of Akainu crying bitchtears.



Except you should re-read Marineford.
Luffy wasn't crying like Ichifag. He was completely mind crushed. 

There's a difference.


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Aug 22, 2013)

I shall join the Tea Party.


----------



## Morglay (Aug 22, 2013)

Lee-Sensei said:


> Luffy should have gotten off the battlefield rather than sit there in the middle of the war right in front of Akainu crying bitchtears.



Those weren't tears. That was the face of a person on a bad high who just shit themselves in the middle of a crowded night club.


----------



## Fujita (Aug 22, 2013)

Comparing time spent training is completely pointless because Kubo and Oda are looking to accomplish different things with their training.

In Bleach, the training always serves as some kind of internal conflict, whether it's Ichigo coming to understand his sword, fighting with his inner demon for dominance, or what have you.

In One Piece, it's just a means to an end, and it'd be pointless to show it when it's more fun just to apply it in battle.


----------



## Byrd (Aug 22, 2013)




----------



## Renegade Knight (Aug 22, 2013)

I was waiting for that gif, Byrd.


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Aug 22, 2013)

This thread needs a little Aizen.


----------



## P-X 12 (Aug 22, 2013)

I'm surprised none of the mods have come over here to lock this.


----------



## Sasaki Kojirō (Aug 22, 2013)

Man, just when I thought this thread couldn't get any more shitty it turned into a HST pissing contest.


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Aug 23, 2013)

^Mostly it was HXH Vs One piece.

The last conversation is not really HST pissing contest just Luffy Vs Ichigo.


----------



## manidk (Aug 23, 2013)




----------



## Jagger (Aug 23, 2013)

Basilikos said:


> Your face needs to be banned.
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __


Mods did.


Twice.


----------



## Basilikos (Aug 23, 2013)

Jagger said:


> Mods did.
> 
> 
> Twice.


Those barbarians.


----------



## Fenrir (Aug 23, 2013)

x5exotic said:


> @Louis, shin megami?... what is this gayness...my eyes hurt. Get it off me.


OH MY GOD THE FUCKERY SQUARED...FUCKERY CUBED 

This is the first time I think I've ever had to actually clean faggotry off of myself. All I can say is that Lucifer has more swag as a fucking girl than you do with that obese man hussie in your avatar.


----------



## Bruce Wayne (Aug 23, 2013)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> This thread needs a little Aizen.



Terrible    .


----------



## x5exotic (Aug 23, 2013)

@Doflamingo, you going for an ad hominem argumentation, conflicting with your own self, not even sure about what you believe, and inadvertently agreeing with me, and going in circle, is getting old. The attitude of " no, you're just wrong" and "because Oda said" doesn't cut it for me.





Byrdman said:


> Rest my case



1) I already said those are generic words in shonen,
2) there's still no indication that was haki. Need I remind you I said I know the scenes. This could've been his DF until Oda added haki.

Your case has to stand up again.





Fujita said:


> ... I actually never noticed that
> 
> 
> 
> You mean En or what?



I mean Ren



> Looking over the whole tracking thing, Hisoka never did anything that the generally superhuman examinee cast was incapable of; noticing people before they came into view and the like were all accomplished by the likes of Nen-less Gon and Killua.



Maybe not in demonstration, but an explicit use of Aura for him did it.

Also Gon using Zetsu before traciking him, which was also shown with effects.



> If you mean his intimidating aura (which had a similar effect to Illumi and Wing)... shounen cliche ahoy.
> 
> It's nearly exactly the same thing as with Shanks.



Actually there are some differences:
1) Shanks was never shown to have used anything there beyond his shonen stare, there's no indication it was haki, even in retrospect, you can't go back and point to anything that _doesn't_ show how it was planted into the scene.

Besides, different results than when it was used in SA, losing the arm also indicate it.

Hisoka on the other hand, used his aura

2) Hisoka did not even know Gon was there, how could he "stare-freeze" or intimidate him in general, he wasn't going for him, or anybody at all, and you can see all animals around him running away; it was in all directions, so there must have been something there that could affect them.

3) In HxH, there was no power system at all before Nen, so anything really out of the ordinary that isn't 'peak human strength' was just out of place, it doesn't fit alone by itself. 

In OP, we had devil fruits, so, for example, that scene with the people being knocked left and right, can't serve as evidence to haki since was meant to be DF for all we know.

Another thing I want to add: Once I actually argued that Haki already existed, Rokushiki WOULD have been a use of haki aka foreshadowing, but I got into an argument about it and lost (it wasn't le haki...just a fighting technique).

4) Mantra so far is the strongest candidate as a use of haki, but we don't know for sure it was meant to be a branch of it. Being in the secluded Skypiea doesn't help. And even if it were, isn't introducing CoO so far into the manga still out of the nowhere?





> At the time? As Kalluto says, "Even normal people can cut a chopstick with a business card."
> 
> Not like his cards being made of something more durable was ever out of the question.


Yeah you're right. I guess we could say Shu was planted there AFTER Nen was introduced. (quite neatly if you ask me), but yeah I'm sure Cards weren't always Shu-induced.  
(I can cut with paper too btw)


----------



## x5exotic (Aug 23, 2013)

Alpha~13 said:


> OH MY GOD THE FUCKERY SQUARED...FUCKERY CUBED
> 
> This is the first time I think I've ever had to actually clean faggotry off of myself. All I can say is that Lucifer has more swag as a fucking girl than you do with that obese man hussie in your avatar.




Bitch please nobody got more swag than Eric.

But seriously wtf is megami tensei or w/e? Looks like a manhwa, and dat Geass art style >.>

What is it about?
Is it like Soul Eater?


----------



## Ramius (Aug 23, 2013)

He's back. Ignore for your own benefit. 
I'd rather argue with that pony fucker or WANKSK

Oh, here's another not-so-accepted opinion: Part 1 of Jojo >> Part 2.


----------



## Lee-Sensei (Aug 23, 2013)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Ichigo getting his former powers back out of no where, when he is in a really tight spot along with all his friends is a Ass pull.



No. It's a call back to the beginning of the series.



> Regardless lets just say its not the same thing as Luffy training?



No. He does it more on panel. We rarely see Luffy training. It comes out of nowhere.




> I do not recall where exactly. I believe it was before he starts fighting Bluneo, maybe during. To which i don't recall which chapter he fights bluneo is.



Scans or it didn't happen.



> Luffy has trained more then Luffy :ignoramus



You know what I meant.



> Ignoring that the amount of training Ichigo has done compared to Luffy is irrelevant.



Ignoring that Luffy went for almost 600 chapters without training. And there are plenty of great characters that don't train.



> This is the point.
> 
> Both of them were being Babys.
> 
> ...



*Didn't his friend save him though?* Ichigo was crying bitchtears and destroying his body until Jinbe came and stopped him. IIRC, Law said that if he kept that up he'd destroy his body and die. Si Luffy's friend did save him.



> Indeed he did. If your trying to say that Luffy is not the only one who has cried or been a bitch then stop. As i already said he has.



I'm saying that you can't call Ichigo out on it and then defend Luffy. They both did it and they stopped. 



> Agreed. Friends are their to help, but your friends saving you does not make you Grow as a character in most cases.



Do you mean like everyone that helped/saved Luffy during Marineford? Let's see... we have;Jinbe, Ivankov, Crocodile, Buggy, Mr. 1, Mr. 3, Whitebeard, Marco, Jozu, Vista, Ace, Boa Hancock, Garp, Trafalgar Law and the Heart Pirates, Coby, Shanks and the Red Haired Pirates. And honestly, I wouldn't even bring up Marineford. That was 100+ chapters ago. Just like the terrible fullbring arc was 100 chapters ago.



> I do consider Superman a bad character, but besides that i am pretty sure he trains. At least i have seen multiple comic panels where he does.



Superman is a great character. As for training... most superheroes are either given their powers (like Green Lantern) or inherit them (like Superman).

We got 10+ years.



> So lets wait and see if Luffy goes back to his old ways.



You do realise that the chapter that Ichigo was crying in is two years old, right? Why don't you give him a chance.



> Look Below.
> 
> 
> 
> Read Above.



You're point?



> Someone has not been reading my posts.
> 
> I have already said multiple times that Luffy was a pussy. So yes by my definition Luffy was a pussy, but if you knew the English language you would know was is past tense.
> 
> ...



And why is he still a pussy? That scan is from 100 chapters ago.



> The only dick i ride is Zoro and Doflamingo.
> 
> Luffy can die for all i care, just ask the people in the OL.
> 
> ...



Like Luffy at MF.



> Also again not the only time Ichigo has been a baby. Why are you trying to justify being a Pussy?



*Because crying doesn't make a character a pussy.* That includes Ichigo and Luffy. I brought up Luffy to prove a point.

Read above. 



> Yes he should of.
> 
> And has Ichigo grown as a character since then that suggests he is no longer a Pussy?
> 
> From what i have seen thats a no.



Prove that he is. Give a scan.


----------



## Lee-Sensei (Aug 23, 2013)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Ichigo getting his former powers back out of no where, when he is in a really tight spot along with all his friends is a Ass pull.



No. It's a call back to the beginning of the series.



> Regardless lets just say its not the same thing as Luffy training?



No. He does it more on panel. We rarely see Luffy training. It comes out of nowhere.




> I do not recall where exactly. I believe it was before he starts fighting Bluneo, maybe during. To which i don't recall which chapter he fights bluneo is.



Scans or it didn't happen.



> Luffy has trained more then Luffy :ignoramus



You know what I meant.



> Ignoring that the amount of training Ichigo has done compared to Luffy is irrelevant.



Ignoring that Luffy went for almost 600 chapters without training. And there are plenty of great characters that don't train.



> This is the point.
> 
> Both of them were being Babys.
> 
> ...



*Didn't his friend save him though?* Ichigo was crying bitchtears and destroying his body until Jinbe came and stopped him. IIRC, Law said that if he kept that up he'd destroy his body and die. Si Luffy's friend did save him.



> Indeed he did. If your trying to say that Luffy is not the only one who has cried or been a bitch then stop. As i already said he has.



I'm saying that you can't call Ichigo out on it and then defend Luffy. They both did it and they stopped. 



> Agreed. Friends are their to help, but your friends saving you does not make you Grow as a character in most cases.



Do you mean like everyone that helped/saved Luffy during Marineford? Let's see... we have;Jinbe, Ivankov, Crocodile, Buggy, Mr. 1, Mr. 3, Whitebeard, Marco, Jozu, Vista, Ace, Boa Hancock, Garp, Trafalgar Law and the Heart Pirates, Coby, Shanks and the Red Haired Pirates. And honestly, I wouldn't even bring up Marineford. That was 100+ chapters ago. Just like the terrible fullbring arc was 100 chapters ago.



> I do consider Superman a bad character, but besides that i am pretty sure he trains. At least i have seen multiple comic panels where he does.



Superman is a great character. As for training... most superheroes are either given their powers (like Green Lantern) or inherit them (like Superman).

We got 10+ years.



> So lets wait and see if Luffy goes back to his old ways.



You do realise that the chapter that Ichigo was crying in is two years old, right? Why don't you give him a chance.



> Look Below.
> 
> 
> 
> Read Above.



You're point?



> Someone has not been reading my posts.
> 
> I have already said multiple times that Luffy was a pussy. So yes by my definition Luffy was a pussy, but if you knew the English language you would know was is past tense.
> 
> ...



And why is he still a pussy? That scan is from 100 chapters ago.



> The only dick i ride is Zoro and Doflamingo.
> 
> Luffy can die for all i care, just ask the people in the OL.
> 
> ...



Like Luffy at MF.



> Also again not the only time Ichigo has been a baby. Why are you trying to justify being a Pussy?



*Because crying doesn't make a character a pussy.* That includes Ichigo and Luffy. I brought up Luffy to prove a point.

Read above. 



> Yes he should of.
> 
> And has Ichigo grown as a character since then that suggests he is no longer a Pussy?
> 
> From what i have seen thats a no.



Prove that he is. Give a scan.



> Except you should re-read Marineford.
> Luffy wasn't crying like Ichifag. He was completely mind crushed.
> 
> There's a difference.



He did a little of both.


----------



## Morglay (Aug 23, 2013)

Did this thread actually become about which character cries harder? All we need are some sales figures to complete the fail.


----------



## Byrd (Aug 23, 2013)

> 1) I already said those are generic words in shonen,
> 2) there's still no indication that was haki. Need I remind you I said I know the scenes. This could've been his DF until Oda added haki.
> 
> Your case has to stand up again.



Except for one small detail 

They mention it was his spirit which throws away any evidence that it could have been a Devil fruit


----------



## Dellinger (Aug 23, 2013)

Exotic are you serious?


----------



## Badalight (Aug 23, 2013)

Angelator said:


> He's back. Ignore for your own benefit.
> I'd rather argue with that pony fucker or WANKSK
> 
> *Oh, here's another not-so-accepted opinion: Part 1 of Jojo >> Part 2.*



WHOAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

STEP BACK SON


----------



## Zuhaitz (Aug 23, 2013)

Following the original purpose of the thread, I liked the ending of Kekkaishi.


----------



## x5exotic (Aug 23, 2013)

Byrdman said:


> Except for one small detail
> 
> They mention it was his spirit which throws away any evidence that it could have been a Devil fruit



How does it throw away the possibility?
We have all sorts of DFs, so yeah, it's either. DF, or a trope.
Need I also remind you of the many many randol fighting styles that exist, like zoro going all sephiroth or flame leg, Rokushiki, and all these?
I bet oda will try to link them to haki too 

So, your argument merely lies on the fact that he said spirit/vigor, to which i already said he turned a trope to a power in a literal sense.
Can you at least provide something new?


----------



## Byrd (Aug 23, 2013)

x5exotic said:


> How does it throw away the possibility?
> We have all sorts of DFs, so yeah, it's either. DF, or a trope.
> Need I also remind you of the many many randol fighting styles that exist, like zoro going all sephiroth or flame leg, Rokushiki, and all these?
> I bet oda will try to link them to haki too
> ...



Shanks has the spirit spirit Devil Fruit... He is able to knock out people... but there are others who could do it also... do they have the spirit spirit devil fruit too?


----------



## x5exotic (Aug 23, 2013)

Well, no, since we still haven't proven that Shanks' trope is actually a super power.
sure, the scan you posted may not be a trope, and just to help you out on this, let's assume it wasn't a DF, what excludes it from being one of the many completely random super power moves in the seres (ranging from single moves to full-fledged martial arts?)




Oh and I have a new controversial thing: Manhwa is unreadable because it just doesn't feel official enough for me


----------



## ZenithXAbyss (Aug 23, 2013)

Fujita said:


> Luffy is the best shounen protagonist, period.
> 
> Doflamingo has just the best characterization.
> 
> ...













    .


----------



## ZenithXAbyss (Aug 23, 2013)

S.A.F said:


> Greed Island was better than York Shin.



That's not controversial.


----------



## Byrd (Aug 23, 2013)

x5exotic said:


> Well, no, since we still haven't proven that Shanks' trope is actually a super power.
> *sure, the scan you posted may not be a trope, and just to help you out on this, let's assume it wasn't a DF, what excludes it from being one of the many completely random super power moves in the seres (ranging from single moves to full-fledged martial arts?)*
> 
> 
> ...



Because Rayleigh identifed it as Haki and even demonstrated it towards Luffy when he knock the Elephant out in a similar fashion as Shanks did ..

Your trolling is getting weaker...


----------



## x5exotic (Aug 23, 2013)

Him saying haki which translates to a word that is a trope is, for the hundredth time, not proof.

It proves that oda adapted haki later on as a superpower.

Proof: look at coc, it literally is the power of will. He never had it planned


----------



## Byrd (Aug 23, 2013)

x5exotic said:


> Him saying haki which translates to a word that is a trope is, for the hundredth time, not proof.
> 
> It proves that oda adapted haki later on as a superpower.
> 
> *Proof: look at coc, it literally is the power of will. He never had it planned*



You gotta give proof of that... how do you know he didn't have it planned? You must have spoke to the man.


----------



## Louis Cyphre (Aug 23, 2013)




----------



## Ice (Aug 23, 2013)

One Piece is the most overrated manga. Next to Dragonball maybe.


----------



## Drawing Chalk (Aug 23, 2013)

^Death Note is overrated too


----------



## P-X 12 (Aug 23, 2013)

Angelator said:


> He's back. Ignore for your own benefit.
> I'd rather argue with that pony fucker or WANKSK
> 
> Oh, here's another not-so-accepted opinion: *Part 1 of Jojo >> Part 2.*


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Aug 23, 2013)

Zuhaitz said:


> Following the original purpose of the thread, I liked the ending of Kekkaishi.



The ending of Kekkaishi was one big disappointment to me, but the last chapter in of itself was alright.


----------



## Renegade Knight (Aug 23, 2013)

x5exotic said:


> It proves that oda adapted haki later on as a superpower.



All it proves is that you believe you know what Oda had planned back in 1997 because you were totally there, dude.

ck


----------



## Lee-Sensei (Aug 23, 2013)

Controversial opinions: Cowboy Bebop isn't the greatest anime ever and NGE is pretentious.


----------



## The Doctor (Aug 23, 2013)

NGE is pure garbage


----------



## Tray (Aug 23, 2013)

Secret: I think city of the dead sorcerer 

is an aweosome webtoon

and 
you should
 read it


----------



## D T (Aug 23, 2013)

Most, if not the overwhelming majority, of the mangas talked in this forum, but also and essentially out there, are at best mediocre.


----------



## manidk (Aug 23, 2013)

I have a generally positive opinion of Code: Breaker.


----------



## Basilikos (Aug 23, 2013)

Lee-Sensei said:


> Controversial opinions: Cowboy Bebop isn't the greatest anime ever and NGE is pretentious.


I actually agree with this.


----------



## Samavarti (Aug 23, 2013)

Samurai Depper Kyo is full of cardboard badasses, and is as overral an awful manga.
Bastard is a fun manga. but plot and character wise is _very_ lacking.


----------



## Han Solo (Aug 23, 2013)

Samavarti said:


> Samurai Depper Kyo is full of cardboard badasses, and is as overral an awful manga.



I've had this option since forever. Never before has there been such a degree of faux badass, it makes Bleach look tame.

And yet there are a fair few people who generally have decent taste who like it. I really don't get it.



Samavarti said:


> Bastard is a fun manga. but plot and character wise is _very_ lacking.



It was cool when Hagiwara gave a fuck. I started reading after he stopped luckily, so I never really got sucked into believing he might care again someday.


----------



## Badalight (Aug 23, 2013)

Part 3 of jojos I love, but the BEST part? No chance, not even close.


----------



## Basilikos (Aug 23, 2013)

While I like Rurouni Kenshin, it still is pretty overrated as an anime and manga IMO.  The battle system is limited pretty much only to swords, the main character comes across as a pansy/goody-two-shoes at times, and the series can be a bit melodramatic in places.


----------



## Louis Cyphre (Aug 23, 2013)

Han Solo said:


> Your opinion is so hot, yet so cold. So violent, yet so peaceful. So cruel, yet so gentle.


This is from Code: Breaker 
I almost giggled when reading it a while ago


----------



## Reyes (Aug 23, 2013)

Part 4 of JoJo is the best part


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Aug 23, 2013)

Badalight said:


> Part 3 of jojos I love, but the BEST part? No chance, not even close.



I have only read 5 parts. 

but so far 2 is my Favorite and the best one IMO. 

Right now its 2>3~4>5>1. 3 gets a oh so tiny edge over 4 because of Dio and some of the main cast dieing.


----------



## Badalight (Aug 23, 2013)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> I have only read 5 parts.
> 
> but so far 2 is my Favorite and the best one IMO.
> 
> Right now its 2>3~4>5>1. 3 gets a oh so tiny edge over 4 because of Dio and some of the main cast dieing.



I've read them all, and part 2 remains my favorite. It's just that part 3 essentially had a decade of buildup for me and it's by far the most popular part. It couldn't live up to expectations.

But the cast is great, especially DIO.


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Aug 23, 2013)

^The cast is great.

I wish ripple stayed more relevant though i actually really liked it, im fine with it taking a back seat to Stands cause Stands, but after part 2 it was like lol ripple. The few times it was used in part 3 if i recall correctly failed to help the situation much.

Also i certain Top tier character deserved something better then Hermit Purple...and his treatment overall to be honest.


----------



## OS (Aug 23, 2013)

Samavarti said:


> Samurai Depper Kyo is full of cardboard badasses, and is as overral an awful manga.
> Bastard is a fun manga. but plot and character wise is _very_ lacking.


I don't know if this is controversial.  Besides 1 man most people I know that ear it agree.


----------



## manidk (Aug 23, 2013)

Despite SDK's faults, I still enjoy(ed) the shit out of it.

Good art, hammy dialogue, and a wide cast of characters with a very wide array of abilities works for me.

Same as Bleach, I suppose.  Minus lolkubobackgrounds.


----------



## Basilikos (Aug 23, 2013)

>ITT: People comparing shit like Blech to good manga like SDK.

FML.


----------



## Lee-Sensei (Aug 23, 2013)

Another controversial opinion. Bleach is one of the best manga being published right now.


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Aug 23, 2013)

Magi, Toriko, One piece, Beelzebub, Assassination class room, Attack on Titan, HDSK, are all better then Bleach off the top of my head. HxH is to but its on break.

Although i don't read many on-going manga. 

But if you mean to say Bleach is in the top 50 i would be inclined to say yes.


----------



## Lee-Sensei (Aug 24, 2013)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Magi, Toriko, One piece, Beelzebub, Assassination class room, Attack on Titan, HDSK, are all better then Bleach off the top of my head. HxH is to but its on break.
> 
> Although i don't read many on-going manga.
> 
> But if you mean to say Bleach is in the top 50 i would be inclined to say yes.



In your opinion. One Piece better than Bleach? Pfft. That hasn't been true since the fullbring arc imho. I can't say much about Magi because I haven't been following it. Attack of the Titans is awesome though.


----------



## manidk (Aug 24, 2013)

Basilikos said:


> >ITT: People comparing shit like Blech to good manga like SDK.
> 
> FML.



I think you're missing my point.


----------



## Dellinger (Aug 24, 2013)

Bleach being one of the best?

Seriously?

Most of the first part of the war was plain uninteresting except for the stuff with Yama,the Unohana fight was horrible,the flashback was even worse.

Bleach only started to pick up with the whole new zanpakuto thing.


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Aug 24, 2013)

Lee-Sensei said:


> In your opinion. One Piece better than Bleach? Pfft. That hasn't been true since the fullbring arc imho. I can't say much about Magi because I haven't been following it. Attack of the Titans is awesome though.




One piece not better then bleach Pfft?

Anyway i thought we were talking about the Series as a whole. 

If your are focusing on current Arcs then bleach does go up quite a bit. Although i still like One piece, Toriko, Magi, Attack on Titan, HDSK, more then bleach. 

Out of the stuff i read Bleach would be better then Ao no Exorcist, Claymore, Fairy tail,Code breaker, and thats about it. 

I like all the Web comics and other type of comics more then bleach as well, which is quite a few of them i read. Such as One punch man and Tower of god.

Edit: This is on-going manga if i add finished manga the list grows....a lot lol


----------



## Lee-Sensei (Aug 24, 2013)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> One piece not better then bleach Pfft?



Yup. Just my opinion though. Credit where credit's due. Bleach has been pretty great for the past year and a half. Fullbring was crap and the lowest point Bleach has fallen honestly. And even when One Piece was on the FI Arc I said that it was better than Bleach. Of the Big 3, One Piece is the most consistently good. It's just that I don't think it's as good as it was before the timeskip. That could change.



> Anyway i thought we were talking about the Series as a whole.



Nope. Just the 1000 year blood war arc, although the 180 chapters up until the end of Soul Society Arc is pretty good too imo. The stuff between the Soul Society Arc and the current Arc are hit and miss and the Fullbring arc was one of the worst arc's I've ever seen in a manga.



> If your are focusing on current Arcs then bleach does go up quite a bit. Although i still like One piece, Toriko, Magi, Attack on Titan, HDSK, more then bleach.



Fair enough. In 2010 I was bashing Bleach like everyone else, but Kubo's putting out some good stuff. He has been since this current arc started. My only real problem is that Byakuya should have died. Other then that it's been pretty great. Buckbeard's an awesome villain, characters are starting to die and there have been quite a few twists.



> Out of the stuff i read Bleach would be better then Ao no Exorcist, Claymore, Fairy tail,Code breaker, and thats about it.



You read Fairy Tail? Is it still as bad as it was in Chapter 322.



> I like all the Web comics and other type of comics more then bleach as well, which is quite a few of them i read. Such as One punch man and Tower of god.



Fair enough. I just believe that right now Bleach is at the top of it's game and if it keeps up the quality it might redeem itself for the Fullbring arc.

There are some pretty good webcomics out there. I like Sinfest.



> Edit: This is on-going manga if i add finished manga the list grows....a lot lol



Mine does too, but I'm just talking about current manga being published.


----------



## Basilikos (Aug 24, 2013)

manidk said:


> I think you're missing my point.


Feel free to clarify.


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Aug 24, 2013)

^^ I agree the War has been great so far, i think pretty keep hating on it just to hate. Also yep....Full bring was pure garbage some people were trying to compare it to bleach before Soul society. To which for me is a big hell no. 

I still read fairy tail yes. Um Hiro is a master of writing crap but even he can't consistently make chapters at the level of 322. Although the current Arc is hella boring its not cringe worthy or anything. Seriously though just go read the most current chapter and you can see what i mean by boring, you don't even need to know the plot as the plot is nothing special. Regardless most of fairy tails arc start off ok or somewhat promising so thats to be expected that its not garbage currently. It will turn into shit soon enough i suspect like the last 2 arcs. -_-


----------



## Lee-Sensei (Aug 24, 2013)

^That's unfortunate. I remember when I started reading this manga I liked it so much even though it was clearly ripping off One Piece.


----------



## Samavarti (Aug 24, 2013)

Basilikos said:


> >ITT: People comparing shit like Blech to good manga like SDK.
> 
> FML.



Take SDK, remove the background, increase the amount of ink by a lot, add some more ass pulls here and there, and you get bleach.


----------



## Badalight (Aug 24, 2013)

I don't get the Tower of God hyped. I read about the first 10 chapters and that was one of the most boring and stereotypical manga I had ever read. The art was terribad too.

Ionno, maybe someone can explain it to me and maybe it gets better... but it does not have a good beginning.

(imo)


----------



## Tray (Aug 24, 2013)

The art is what actually got me to read ToG lol.


----------



## Basilikos (Aug 24, 2013)

Samavarti said:


> Take SDK, remove the background, increase the amount of ink by a lot, add some more ass pulls here and there, and you get bleach.


More like take Blech, add shit loads of character growth and background, great artwork (with actual backgrounds in the art), a main character who isn't dull, badassery, well done fights, and a good, coherent plot and then you get SDK.

You're comparing apples and oranges.


----------



## Samavarti (Aug 24, 2013)

Badalight said:


> I don't get the Tower of God hyped. I read about the first 10 chapters and that was one of the most boring and stereotypical manga I had ever read. The art was terribad too.
> 
> Ionno, maybe someone can explain it to me and maybe it gets better... but it does not have a good beginning.
> 
> (imo)



ToG it does get better, the test become a lot more interesting for once, and so do the characters, and the setting gets fleshed out.


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Aug 24, 2013)

Lee-Sensei said:


> ^That's unfortunate. I remember when I started reading this manga I liked it so much even though it was clearly ripping off One Piece.



Indeed Fairy tail was promising it still has potential just we all know Hiro will never do it properly. I think Hiro is not taking it seriously in terms of story, unlike with Rave which had a serious story. Hiro just does whatever he feels like it....in some ways Fairy tail does not even have a story.

Seriously whats the point of Fairy tail? What in over 300 chapters has happened that pushes the story to a end point? Like seriously a lot of mangas would be over at this point, but what do we have from fairy tail. A lot of bad guys are defeated, we know about more characters past/relationships but like its all whatever. Its like a cartoon in some ways stuff just happens, it might be mentioned every few moons but for the most part its in the past who cares nothings majorly connected and the main cast goes about doing the same old crap. 

Fairy tail is just a mess im done talking about it.

Lets talk about Bleach lol.


----------



## Tray (Aug 24, 2013)

Fullbring arc in Bleach Anime was pretty decent aside from the pace.


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Aug 24, 2013)

Did not watch Fullbring arc in Anime(cause that arc sucked) but i don't see how they could change garbage to decent. 

Animation must be God like.


----------



## Lee-Sensei (Aug 24, 2013)

I watched a few episodes of the FB arc, but not all of them because it was awful imo. It had great animation and music though.


----------



## Torpedo Titz (Aug 24, 2013)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Indeed Fairy tail was promising it still has potential...



The potential to be mediocre. :ignoramus


----------



## x5exotic (Aug 24, 2013)

Byrdman said:


> You gotta give proof of that... how do you know he didn't have it planned? You must have spoke to the man.



I did say the burden of proof is on you no? 

As for not having it planned, it shows by not having any evidence (which you're supposed to provide)


----------



## Louis Cyphre (Aug 24, 2013)

The burden proof is on you, actually
Since you claimed shits but didn't provide any evidence. You just keep yelling "shounen cliche, asspull and blah blah blah"
Byrdman on the other hand
Provided evidences in the manga (and IIRC Word of God) to support his position


----------



## Byrd (Aug 24, 2013)

Toriko, One Piece, Bleach, Naruto don't rank in my top 30 (possibly higher than that) as good manga.

Bleach current arc is extremely disjointed with Kubo recon of Ichigo origins and him making Ichigo a quincy,hollow, Soul Reaper was extremely stupid... Fullbringer Arc was completely pointless and the newly added quincy characters are forgettable.

Seen a mention of Ao no Exorcist, consider it to be a lot better than Bleach or Naruto... one reason is that its more focus on its characters interacting and buildup...

I found Jojo Part 2 to be alright... not off the top amazing... I would rank it a 7/10...

Trace >>> ToG

---------------------------------------------------



> I did say the burden of proof is on you no?
> 
> As for not having it planned, it shows by not having any evidence (which you're supposed to provide)



> brought in tons of scans to support my argument... says I didn't provide evidence 

> has yet to provide any type of evidence besides saying his opinion...

I will give you a chance... show me some type of evidence that what you said is true... if not concession accepted


----------



## x5exotic (Aug 24, 2013)

@Louis, actually all i'm doing is  denying what he's claiming, if someone says Haki is linked to shanks, he needs to prove it. Same goes for all the unattended claims made by the others.


And no, he never provided any evidence from the manga itself (that is plausible), if you read, I kept saying "give me proof from the content itself"

 he provided it from the off-screen, off-content claims made by Oda, which isn't considered proof since anyone would claim stuff to support his work (and oda of all makes these pathetic SBS trying to fix his plotholes), so... 

where is this word of god content you speak of?


----------



## Dellinger (Aug 24, 2013)

Oda must have really caused huge problems to you


----------



## x5exotic (Aug 24, 2013)

Well he did troll me with stupid ass-pulls


----------



## Byrd (Aug 24, 2013)

x5exotic said:


> @Louis, actually all i'm doing is  denying what he's claiming, if someone says Haki is linked to shanks, he needs to prove it. Same goes for all the unattended claims made by the others.
> 
> 
> And no, he never provided any evidence from the manga itself (that is plausible), if you read, I kept saying "give me proof from the content itself"
> ...



Concession Accepted... even tho this 'Debate' ended a while ago


----------



## x5exotic (Aug 24, 2013)

>you know you won an argument when a one piece fan says 'concession' accepted to a full post. 

It's like when kids go "la la la I can't here you, I lost an argument but I'm too proud to admit it"


----------



## Byrd (Aug 24, 2013)

x5exotic said:


> >you know you won an argument when a one piece fan says 'concession' accepted to a full post.
> 
> It's like when kids go "la la la I can't here you, I lost an argument but I'm too proud to admit it"





> I will give you a chance... show me some type of evidence that what you said is true... if not concession accepted



 this is the reason why


----------



## x5exotic (Aug 24, 2013)

You're trying to walk away from providing evidence, which is a concession, either that or you're taking your time to think about one (but since you already decided not to/was unable to...)


----------



## Louis Cyphre (Aug 24, 2013)

x5exotic said:


> @Louis, actually all i'm doing is  denying what he's claiming, if someone says Haki is linked to shanks, he needs to prove it. Same goes for all the unattended claims made by the others.



Here's the hint: he did
But, apparently, you're too blind to see
Or want to look "cool"



> And no, he never provided any evidence from the manga itself (that is plausible), if you read, I kept saying "give me proof from the content itself
> 
> he provided it from the off-screen, off-content claims made by Oda, which isn't considered proof since anyone would claim stuff to support his work (and oda of all makes these pathetic SBS trying to fix his plotholes), so...




*Spoiler*: __ 





Byrdman said:


> > The term "Haki" is a word that has multiple meanings when translated into English. It can mean "ambition", "will power", "drive", "spirit", "vigor" and "aspiration" to name a few."
> >
> > Yep. Just as expected.
> 
> ...





....
Stop trying to dismiss evidence because you don't like it
Denying things without any support is pure horseshit



> off-screen, off-content claims made by Oda


> Word of God



x5exotic said:


> It's like when kids go "la la la I can't here you, I lost an argument but I'm too proud to admit it"


That's exactly what you're doing 
:hestonlaugh


----------



## Dellinger (Aug 24, 2013)

The thing is we could make the same argument about Nen yet we don't.


----------



## x5exotic (Aug 24, 2013)

> > Word of God


Nah
>word of a writer too incompetent to be consistent or have good foresight so he tries to fix it in interviews and references.


As for the hint: No, trust me, he didn't. The stuff you're quiting, I already answered, they are not the evidence, they are the thing in question that need evidence themselves. Yes, these events happened, yes that quote was said, but it is still irrelevant until you prove how it's liked to it.

Also, as I posted, Haki is a generic term referring to multiple meanings, so there's no evidence to prove how it was really meant as the Haki system and not just him taking the term literally, in retrospect.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

And yes, we could be having one about Nen, we already did have one, but it got resolved and the verdict was: it was there all along.


----------



## p-lou (Aug 24, 2013)

Do y'all have to bite on every piece of bait out there?

Sheesh


----------



## Louis Cyphre (Aug 24, 2013)

> babbling
> dismissing evidence because he didn't like it
> still act like he's debating

Son
you must be proud of being blind


----------



## Dellinger (Aug 24, 2013)

Haki is not a generic term.

This term is not used in other manga,it was only used in OP meaning Oda was planning to have a power called Haki.

Now stop with your bullshit.


----------



## x5exotic (Aug 24, 2013)

....
You just dismissed things that you didn't like because you couldn't prove it wrong...so... what goes around comes around I guess.

When you're trying to prove something, don't use the thing that requires evidence as proof --> Pro-tip




Haki is a generic term as in it has multiple meanings and means many things, ambition, spirit and all. So it doesn't really show how he's talking about Haki as what he added later on to the term.

What do other mangaka have to do with it?


And let me walk you through it: Let me throw you a bone and assume it was meant to be the power; what stops it from being an asspull then? If he used the actual  power, and called it by its name, then that moment is when the power was "introduced", not "foreshadowed", meaning the Haki in Sabody was just a re-appearance. And introducing a new power system after hundreds of chapters is pretty much an asspull.

Same thing with Mantra and CoA since they were all introduced separately as you suggest, If he introduced CoO in Jaya, then he basically added a whole power (coo) to it later on, and then redundantly added another (CoA) in a (acually here iz more power) manner.


----------



## Dellinger (Aug 24, 2013)

You're spouting the same bullshit even though others have proved you wrong.

You see Teach commenting on Luffy's Haki and then we have Jozu and Marco doing the same for Shanks'.

They're clearly talking about the same thing which is something you refuse because of your dislike for OP.

Your whole arguments until now are pathetic and scream about your fanboyism towards HxH and your hate towards OP.


----------



## x5exotic (Aug 24, 2013)

You see Teach commenting on Luffy's Haki merely marks a shonen trope

They're clearly talking about the same thing which is something you refuse to see the true nature of because of your like for OP

Your whole arguments until now are pathetic and scream about your fanboyism towards OP and your hate towards HxH.



It's funny how you're trying to play the debater now when the last 10 pages were you bashing randomly without any intelligent post.
And maybe you missed the discussion but just because you claim you have evidence doesn't mean you're right, and when you present an evidence, and it gets countered, it doesn't mean someone 'disliked it" and didn't 'accept it', especially since I gave you the reasoning. 

Now please try to be in a more civil argument and either be involved with contributive posts or don't post at all.


----------



## p-lou (Aug 24, 2013)

Seriously this might be the least interesting and least entertaining troll that's been able to drag out such a long thread


----------



## p-lou (Aug 24, 2013)

Could you go back to the Doflamingo is a Hisoka rip off stuff? That was better.


----------



## Renegade Knight (Aug 24, 2013)

x5exotic said:


> Well he did troll me with stupid ass-pulls



Side-stepping facts with that same word again. 

You truly are a one-trick pony.


----------



## x5exotic (Aug 24, 2013)

No, I just answered them 20 pages ago, so if you really want to know, just go back and read them.


----------



## Renegade Knight (Aug 24, 2013)

side-stepping =/= answering.


----------



## manidk (Aug 24, 2013)

Basilikos said:


> Feel free to clarify.



I'm just saying that I like them for the same reasons, not that they are in any way comparable otherwise.

I like the art.

I like the sometimes cheesy dialogue.

I like the abilities.

I like the wide cast of characters.

SDK is generally higher-quality than Bleach, but Bleach does rank higher on my list due to being my first manga and whatnot.


----------



## Ramius (Aug 24, 2013)

Byrdman said:


> *Toriko, One Piece, Bleach, Naruto don't rank in my top 30 (possibly higher than that) as good manga.*
> 
> Bleach current arc is extremely disjointed with Kubo recon of Ichigo origins and him making Ichigo a quincy,hollow, Soul Reaper was extremely stupid... Fullbringer Arc was completely pointless and the newly added quincy characters are forgettable.
> 
> ...



That's actually extremely plausible and not controversial. You have to be some special kind of pleb to have those in your top 30 manga.
Average at best art, below average stories, the fights aren't well executed for most of the part, really shitty humor among many other faults. They are also very very repetitive - the character development, the adventures, the overall structure. Just reeks of unoriginality, albeit OP's a tad higher than the other 3. The timeskip makes it hard to keep that position though.
About fights - since most of them are still somewhat inspired by Dragon Ball (some character archetypes, cliches, etc), they could at least try to get a good action scenes choreography, which DB had.

The second is also not controversial. 7/10 is actually pretty well above average, which 2nd part is.


----------



## Kirito (Aug 24, 2013)

this can be controversial: i find SNK average and overrated. i like the manga and keep up with it every release, but i haven't watched the anime yet because it might skew my view on the manga, making me look at things like theyre more awesome than they really are.

lately the plot's been moving inch by inch, like its been dragging out. nothing new is revealed.

say one piece got that animation consistently in a hypothetical situation. wouldn't it boost the shit out of manga/anime dvd sales too? i know it did for hxh and kudos to madhouse. its a miracle the OP manga sales never goes down despite the shit animation.

im not saying SNK is bad, just that it's average at best.


----------



## manidk (Aug 24, 2013)

SNK had a great start but has more or less devolved to "Dialogue:  The Manga."

The anime hit that point too with the "Boulder Arc."


----------



## The Doctor (Aug 24, 2013)

Angelator said:


> You have to be some special kind of pleb to have those in your top 30 manga.


No, you just have to be someone who enjoys goofy stuff or pre-teen drama/action stories.


----------



## Patrick (Aug 24, 2013)

I think JJBA falls off quite a bit after the first two parts. It all went a little out of hand with the stands, they were way too vague. 

I also don't think of HxH as anything special. It has some good moments, but it is all over the place and the art is really bad.


----------



## B Rabbit (Aug 24, 2013)

Well the majority here like Bleach/Naruto/One Piece so sorry for the 80% of us who are plebs.


----------



## Reyes (Aug 24, 2013)

Yoshikage Kira is the best JoJo villain


----------



## B Rabbit (Aug 24, 2013)

Yoshikage is my fave villain. 

Dio was amazing. Idk if this is controversial but I didn't really like part 2


----------



## Reyes (Aug 24, 2013)

B Rabbit said:


> Yoshikage is my fave villain.
> 
> Dio was amazing. Idk if this is controversial but* I didn't really like part 2*



I can see this being controversial.


----------



## B Rabbit (Aug 24, 2013)

Also Berserk, Vagabond, One Piece, 20th Boys, and slam dunk are the best mangas ever.


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (Aug 24, 2013)

I haven't even read 30 manga in my life


----------



## B Rabbit (Aug 24, 2013)

Just read Naruto 30 times.


----------



## Xiammes (Aug 24, 2013)

B Rabbit said:


> Well the majority here like Bleach/Naruto/One Piece so sorry for the 80% of us who are plebs.



Apology not accepted, I can't believe people would join a Naruto site to talk about Naruto


----------



## Dellinger (Aug 24, 2013)

Diego >> all


----------



## B Rabbit (Aug 24, 2013)

God forbid Naruto fans talk about Naruto on here.

Nuke them. Kill creator infront of them.


----------



## Louis Cyphre (Aug 24, 2013)

B Rabbit said:


> Yoshikage is my fave villain.
> 
> Dio was amazing. Idk if this is controversial but* I didn't really like part 2*




Now 
This is controversial


----------



## B Rabbit (Aug 24, 2013)

I like some of the moments, but I didn't fall inlove until part 3. Then I had all my fangasms part 4.


----------



## Xiammes (Aug 24, 2013)

B Rabbit said:


> God forbid Naruto fans talk about Naruto on here.
> 
> Nuke them. Kill creator infront of them.



Castrate them and force them to work in coal mines


----------



## B Rabbit (Aug 24, 2013)

They complain about the work force them to read the latest article of of Ben Affleck as Batman.

They'll kill themselves through pain and torture.


----------



## Lee-Sensei (Aug 24, 2013)

Axel Almer said:


> One Piece is the most overrated manga. Next to Dragonball maybe.



For Dragon Ball to be overrated, it has to be highly rated. From what I've seen, a lot of anime fan's like to bash it. Biting the hand that feeds you... as they say.


----------



## B Rabbit (Aug 24, 2013)

Anything that's popular gets hated on.


----------



## Lee-Sensei (Aug 24, 2013)

Controversial opinion: Togashi should have found a way to have more Kuwabara in the final Saga of YYH.


----------



## B Rabbit (Aug 24, 2013)

Togashi should have just got off his high horse and actually do the final saga


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Aug 24, 2013)

Jojo Part 2 is one of the best arcs in manga.

I would rather read it then anything in one piece.


----------



## Null (Aug 24, 2013)

I think Giorno is a lot better than Jotaro


----------



## Tray (Aug 24, 2013)

One Piece has better art than FT's.


----------



## Reyes (Aug 24, 2013)

Jolyne is a better character then her Dad.


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Aug 24, 2013)

Null Void said:


> I think Giorno is a lot better than Jotaro



You've gone and done it now Null.


----------



## B Rabbit (Aug 24, 2013)

Bleach fans are better than One Piece fans.


----------



## Byrd (Aug 24, 2013)

Bleach fans on here are worst than OP fans... you mention anything negative about Bleach even in a different thread.. you get neg out the blue


----------



## B Rabbit (Aug 24, 2013)

One Piece have a good series...and like to shove it down your throat type of fans.


----------



## Morglay (Aug 24, 2013)

ToG didn't grab me like it did some of the fans, it is a solid series. I just feel I could take it or leave it... I prefer Kubera.


----------



## Lee-Sensei (Aug 24, 2013)

Byrdman said:


> Bleach fans on here are worst than OP fans... you mention anything negative about Bleach even in a different thread.. you get neg out the blue



There are already outliers. It's probably because of the way you say it. And how are you going to say that Bleach fans are worse than OP fans when in this very thread we have so many people bashing Bleach while praising OP.


----------



## Dellinger (Aug 24, 2013)

Morglay said:


> ToG didn't grab me like it did some of the fans, it is a solid series. I just feel I could take it or leave it... I prefer Kubera.



Where's your set from?


----------



## Tray (Aug 24, 2013)

Morglay said:


> ToG didn't grab me like it did some of the fans, it is a solid series. I just feel I could take it or leave it... *I prefer Kubera*.



^^^^^^^^^^^^^


----------



## OS (Aug 24, 2013)

White Hawk said:


> Where's your set from?


It's from God of highschool.


----------



## Byrd (Aug 24, 2013)

Lee-Sensei said:


> There are already outliers. It's probably because of the way you say it. And how are you going to say that Bleach fans are worse than OP fans when in this very thread we have so many people bashing Bleach while praising OP.



All my time here... I never receive a neg for stating a manga sucked from a random poster like I do with Bleach fans


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Aug 24, 2013)

One punch man is one of the best things ever created.


----------



## B Rabbit (Aug 24, 2013)

Your not being flamed, your being debated and putting your beliefs on the line.


----------



## OS (Aug 24, 2013)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> One punch man is one of the best things ever created.



We need a little bit more to actually say that. ONE is seemingly lazy and updates  after a while apparently even though his drawing skills can be done by anyone.


----------



## Jagger (Aug 24, 2013)

Badalight said:


> I don't get the Tower of God hyped. I read about the first 10 chapters and that was one of the most boring and stereotypical manga I had ever read. The art was terribad too.
> 
> Ionno, maybe someone can explain it to me and maybe it gets better... but it does not have a good beginning.
> 
> (imo)


Son, you can leave the internet now.

Here's the door. Here's a little Naruto plushie for posting on this forums and I hope you enjoyed your stay! 


Now really, get out.


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Aug 24, 2013)

B Rabbit said:


> Your not being flamed, your being debated and putting your beliefs on the line.



.....ok 



Original Sin said:


> We need a little bit more to actually say that. ONE is seemingly lazy and updates  after a while apparently even though his drawing skills can be done by anyone.



It takes time for him to think of what to do next. 

Patience OS Patience.


----------



## OS (Aug 24, 2013)

It's in between each chapter apparently so no there is really not many excuses unless he is really making it up as it goes.


----------



## Lee-Sensei (Aug 25, 2013)

Byrdman said:


> All my time here... I never receive a neg for stating a manga sucked from a random poster like I do with Bleach fans



Then maybe you shouldn't be saying that it sucks. Maybe you should try to point out the good qualities and bad qualities. If someone goes into the OL and starts saying "One Piece *sucks*", that no one is going to neg them? Because if that's what you think you're dreaming.


----------



## Byrd (Aug 25, 2013)

Lee-Sensei said:


> Then maybe you shouldn't be saying that it sucks. Maybe you should try to point out the good qualities and bad qualities. If someone goes into the OL and starts saying "One Piece *sucks*", that no one is going to neg them? Because if that's what you think you're dreaming.



Thing is.. I do that every time... I always list reasons why stuff sucks...  and get randomly negged out of the blue but diehard fans.... Bleach fans seems to be the worst..


----------



## Lee-Sensei (Aug 25, 2013)

Byrdman said:


> Thing is.. I do that every time... I always list reasons why stuff sucks...  and get randomly negged out of the blue but diehard fans.... Bleach fans seems to be the worst..



I repeat:



> If someone goes into the OL and starts saying "One Piece sucks", that no one is going to neg them?



Did you give reasons? Did you try to point out it's good points?


----------



## Stevenh1990 (Aug 25, 2013)

Original Sin said:


> It's in between each chapter apparently so no there is really not many excuses unless he is really making it up as it goes.



That's because he is doing more than one manga.


----------



## Morglay (Aug 25, 2013)

White Hawk said:


> Where's your set from?



Cba to read through everything to see if anyone has replied so set is from GoH aka God of Highschool. (Best webcomic to emerge from Korea. )


----------



## Tray (Aug 25, 2013)

Oh, and GoH is overrated.


----------



## Jagger (Aug 25, 2013)

Urek said:


> Oh, and GoH is overrated.


Urek, I'll give you another opportunity to take that back since you like ToG as much as I do.  


But on a serious note, GoH's plot isn't that good or deep. If what you're looking at GoH is plot, go and search for another manga/mahwa. If you're looking for fights, go to GoH.


----------



## Blαck (Aug 25, 2013)

Byrdman said:


> Thing is.. I do that every time... I always list reasons why stuff sucks...  and get randomly negged out of the blue but diehard fans.... Bleach fans seems to be the worst..



It happens, Almsot got into an argument with someone in an FC because they put Bleach on the same quality list as Berserk


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Aug 25, 2013)

GoH is overrated but overrated=/=Not good. Its very good, just put higher then it should be. 

HDSK is a top tier read, just ignore the fan service......when the serious fights start of course. Otherwise enjoy


----------



## Byrd (Aug 25, 2013)

Lee-Sensei said:


> I repeat:
> 
> 
> 
> Did you give reasons? Did you try to point out it's good points?





> I always list reasons why stuff sucks



I listed a ton of stuff from poor character development to trying to appeal for emotion yet falling flat... one dimensional characters with no depth etc... and that it should end


----------



## Lee-Sensei (Aug 25, 2013)

Byrdman said:


> I listed a ton of stuff from poor character development to trying to appeal for emotion yet falling flat... one dimensional characters with no depth etc... and that it should end



Okay. First of all... all of that doesn't apply to Bleach. And I sincerely doubt that you gave detailed reasons for why you dislike the show and a bunch of Bleach fans negged you for it. Where did you post this?


----------



## Byrd (Aug 25, 2013)

Lee-Sensei said:


> *Okay. First of all... all of that doesn't apply to Bleach.* And I sincerely doubt that you gave detailed reasons for why you dislike the show and a bunch of Bleach fans negged you for it. Where did you post this?



Personal opinion just like mines 

and this was a while ago... some cases I did.. some cases I just called it shit.. but my point is.. its completely stupid to randomly neg someone over a comment when you are not involve in the discussion or it has nothing to do with u...

Thats like me going to the cafe and enter a thread and neg someone because they hate cheese without giving an explanation or what and leave.


----------



## Lee-Sensei (Aug 25, 2013)

Byrdman said:


> Personal opinion just like mines





> I listed a ton of stuff from *poor character development* to trying to appeal for emotion yet falling flat... *one dimensional characters with no depth etc*... and that it should end



Those aren't subjective.



> and this was a while ago... some cases I did.. some cases I just called it shit..



Then maybe you shouldn't go there and call something that they like shit. If someone goes to the OL and calls OP shit, whether they give reasons or not, they're getting negged.



> but my point is.. its completely stupid to randomly neg someone over a comment when you are not involve in the discussion or it has nothing to do with u...



*Then don't say it sucks and call it shit.* There are better way's to say that you don't like a series. Like saying 'I don't like the series'. But if you call go there just to bash something that they like, don't expect them to give you positive reps.



> Thats like me going to the cafe and enter a thread and neg someone because they hate cheese without giving an explanation or what and leave.



It's *nothing* like that. It's like going to the OL and calling One Piece shit or saying that it sucks and not expecting to get negged. And I still don't believe that a bunch of Bleach fans negged you for calmly saying why you don't like the series in a respectful way. If you just went there to bash the series (and I'm pretty sure you did), then I can easily see them negging you. And you'd deserve it.


----------



## Toriko (Aug 25, 2013)

Hsdk is much better than most other martial arts manga.

Kakashi>>Kite

Kongou Banchou> nanatsu no taizai

Buster Keel is one of the better shounens

Fma brotherhood Eng dub>>>>>>>>>>sub


----------



## Blαck (Aug 25, 2013)

Toriko said:


> Kongou Banchou> nanatsu no taizai



For now, NnT is just picking up speed right now


----------



## Toriko (Aug 25, 2013)

True. I will always enjoy Kb more because of Akira. 

I take back what I said about goku, he is the best shounen protagonist ever.


----------



## Lee-Sensei (Aug 25, 2013)

Durarara is better than Baccano.


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Aug 25, 2013)

Toriko said:


> Hsdk is much better than most other martial arts manga.
> 
> Kakashi>>Kite
> 
> ...



Buster Keel reminds me of fairy tail so im not reading it.

Seems like a trap.


----------



## OmniOmega (Aug 25, 2013)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Buster Keel reminds me of fairy tail so im not reading it.
> 
> Seems like a trap.



Buster Keel is a Fairy Tail ripoff that's better than the original or at least that's how I refer to it.


----------



## Gin (Aug 25, 2013)

Lee-Sensei said:


> For Dragon Ball to be overrated, it has to be highly rated. From what I've seen, a lot of anime fan's like to bash it. Biting the hand that feeds you... as they say.


I know a number of people on here who rate DB among their top mangas/animes (and have read/watched many more than I have).

It _is_ overrated, and what's worse is that a lot of arguments for its "quality" start with "without DB, modern Shounen wouldn't exist".

I mean really...


----------



## MrCinos (Aug 25, 2013)

*DB* is nothing special and is far from belonging to the best shounens.

*Violinist of Hameln* is (one of) the best finished shounen series 

*Zettai Karen Children *deserves more popularity as it's one of the better ongoing shounens.


----------



## Lee-Sensei (Aug 25, 2013)

Frost said:


> I know a number of people on here who rate DB among their top mangas/animes (and have read/watched many more than I have).



There's nothing wrong with them liking it more than other anime/manga series'.



> It _is_ overrated, and what's worse is that a lot of arguments for its "quality" start with "without DB, modern Shounen wouldn't exist".
> 
> I mean really...



Well... it's true, isn't it? As for quality... I'd say that the first five Saga's were quality. DBZ on the other hand...

Not to mention this is beside the point. Everything is overrated, but I can't agree that Dragon Ball is *the* most overrated because there are so many people bashing it.


----------



## Torpedo Titz (Aug 25, 2013)

Dragon Ball is one among a number of influential manga from the 80s (and its influence is, although not limited to, within the shounen circle). What Frost is referring to is its tendency to be ignorantly touted as the sole progenitor of shounen, or even manga in general, and how this is analogous to objective quality. Which it isn't.


----------



## Toriko (Aug 25, 2013)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Buster Keel reminds me of fairy tail so im not reading it.
> 
> Seems like a trap.



Its ft's characters (in appearance only). Other than that, its almost nothing like fairy tail.


----------



## Lee-Sensei (Aug 25, 2013)

Jon Stark said:


> Dragon Ball is one among a number of influential manga from 80s (and its influence is, although not limited to, mostly within the shounen circle). What Frost is referring to is its tendency to be ignorantly touted as the sole progenitor of shounen, or even manga in general, and how this is analogous to objective quality.



It's not the only very influential Shonen made at the time, but it was the most influential. It also had an incredible impact. Like I said... biting the hand that feeds you. It played a huge part in opening the west to anime. But I agree that it's impact has nothing to do with whether it's a quality series.

I never said that it wasn't overrated. Most things are. I said that it wasn't the most overrated. And the way I read it, Frost seemed to be against people ranking it as one of their favorites.


----------



## Byrd (Aug 25, 2013)

Lee-Sensei said:


> Those aren't subjective.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I didn't say a bunch of bleach fans neg me in one go and you get the depiction I went into the Bleach section saying Bleach sucks which I didn't..

This was an open discussion either in the Library or Battledome.. and I find it quite funny that a lurker randomly negging me


----------



## Lee-Sensei (Aug 25, 2013)

Byrdman said:


> I didn't say a bunch of bleach fans neg me in one go and you get the depiction



I mentioned this before. If it was just 1 or 2 it's an outlier.



> I went into the Bleach section saying Bleach sucks which I didn't.



Okay... but you did call it 'shit'. If you're calling something that they like 'shit' you should have seen this coming.



> This was an open discussion either in the Library or Battledome..



Well if you went to the comic forum and said that Superman is 'shit' or Batman is 'shit' do you think that you wouldn't get negged?


----------



## Byrd (Aug 25, 2013)

Ryo Saeba & Kenshiro are Jumps best protagonist

City Hunter > Dragon Ball z


----------



## Lee-Sensei (Aug 25, 2013)

Byrdman said:


> Ryo Saeba & Kenshiro are Jumps best protagonist
> 
> City Hunter > Dragon Ball z



I'm not going to say that you're wrong, but why are you even comparing them? They seem to be pretty different.


----------



## Byrd (Aug 25, 2013)

Although they are different, they still share the overall principles of characterization, Plot Structure, Theme, etc.

I think City Hunter is better than Dragonball z in this manner...


----------



## thinkingaboutlife (Aug 25, 2013)

Part 2 naruto is better than part 1.


----------



## God Movement (Aug 25, 2013)

Too many DB haters in here. GOAT manga.


----------



## Lee-Sensei (Aug 25, 2013)

God Movement said:


> Too many DB haters in here. GOAT manga.



I agree. What an ungrateful bunch.

And nice Lucky Avatar.


----------



## Basilikos (Aug 25, 2013)

MrCinos said:


> *Violinist of Hameln* is (one of) the best finished shounen series


I've been meaning to get around to reading that one eventually.

So many series I still need to get to....



God Movement said:


> Too many DB haters in here. GOAT manga.


DB/Z is a good manga IMO.

But greatest of all time?  I can't say I agree with that at all.


----------



## Arya Stark (Aug 25, 2013)

I'm still butthurt about Arakawa not giving Roy any closure in FMA's finale.


----------



## God Movement (Aug 25, 2013)

Violinist of Hameln is average at best, really isn't as good as even the worst DB arcs.



Lee-Sensei said:


> I agree. What an ungrateful bunch.
> 
> And nice Lucky Avatar.



thanks



Basilikos said:


> I've been meaning to get around to reading that one eventually.
> 
> So many series I still need to get to....
> 
> ...



It's the greatest in my humble opinion. The first part has the perfect balance of comedy, adventure and action - it marries the three sub-genres almost effortlessly, which makes for one of the most enjoyable reads that I can remember in any genre of manga, including SEINEN (which people seem to think is the only ingredient you need for a manga to classify as good  over here and that's the reason why Dragon Ball has endless re-read value).  Unparalleled and original character design, starting even from the beginning of the series, up until the end of Part 2 (even to this day, and all the modern works that have been built upon it).

Part 2 is more action based sure, and seems to leave the adventure element alone almost entirely (or as some seem to think, adventure is about exploration, and as far as I know, traveling the universe, and visiting different planets as well as other dimensions is exploration but I'll bite), but does it in a way that even the best battle manga do not. Why? Because every single battle in Dragon Ball is memorable. Every single battle is significant. It feels that way because every single main character is excellently crafted in personality and design. And because of course, Toriyama draws battle scenes better than anyone ever has in _supernatural_ manga (emphasis on "supernatural" because realism plays a big part on how you may perceive a certain battle, you're going to look at a battle in delinquent manga differently).  Where Dragon Ball lacks in mature themes and plot thickness it easily makes up for in epic moments. Part 2 has so little an amount of arcs that people take one arc being rather lackluster as a reason to slander an entire HALF of the manga, but would very much overlook a shitty arc for another manga and still proclaim that as the best out.

And of course to be the GOAT influence matters, and influence matters a hell of a lot. The Vegeta  archetype in manga was unheard of before Dragon Ball, power levels were not seen, transformations resulting in significant stat increase were not seen, constructed ki systems were not seen, the easy going, big appetite main character was another addition etc... I'm sure you can add a few dozen yourself off the head.

I'm bored of typing, GOAT manga, sorry.


----------



## Xiammes (Aug 25, 2013)

Lee-Sensei said:


> Durarara is better than Baccano.



Your're crusin for a bruisin


----------



## Gin (Aug 25, 2013)

God Movement said:


> every single main character is excellently crafted in personality and design


and this is where I stopped reading and started laughing


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Aug 25, 2013)

God Movement said:


> Violinist of Hameln is average at best, really isn't as good as even the worst DB arcs.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



God Movement on that good weed.


----------



## God Movement (Aug 25, 2013)

Frost said:


> and this is where I stopped reading and started laughing



If your avatar is any indication of the kind of series you're into your opinion isn't really acknowledged over here tbh


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Aug 25, 2013)

One piece>Dragon ball/Z in everything but Comedy(And thats only for DB)

On that topic Part 1 Dragon Ball or DB>Part 2 DBZ


----------



## God Movement (Aug 25, 2013)

DB is better. One Piece is good competition though.


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Aug 25, 2013)

Actually change one other thing DB/Z fights are overall better then one piece......For now. Got 10+ years of one piece left the epic fights are just getting started.

But Really fights and Comedy for Dragon ball are all its got, and the comedy is not top tier or anything either its just better then one piece.


----------



## Byrd (Aug 25, 2013)

Texhnolyze is better than any anime out right now including the popular ones.. could easily give animes like Cowboy Bebop are run for its money


----------



## Gin (Aug 25, 2013)

God Movement said:


> If your avatar is any indication of the kind of series you're into your opinion isn't really acknowledged over here tbh


an elitist DBZ fan huh

don't know whether to be offended or keep laughing 

I think the latter


----------



## God Movement (Aug 25, 2013)

One Piece has better comedy than some single genre comedy series, Toriyama is hailed as the king of gag for a reason though, he's really proficient at it. I was talking more about the balance between a few sub genres as what makes Part 1 so good. Part 2 rules battle manga with an iron fist.


----------



## Basilikos (Aug 25, 2013)

Part 2 DB >>> Part 1 DB, IMO.

I always liked the hardcore action and badassery of part 2 way better.


----------



## God Movement (Aug 25, 2013)

Frost said:


> an elitist DBZ fan huh
> 
> don't know whether to be offended or keep laughing
> 
> I think the latter



You can't come over here and make reckless comments on Dragon Ball with corny throwaway series in your sets dude, that's cheeky behavior. I hate to be the guy to judge the value of your opinion on your set but... yeah.


----------



## P-X 12 (Aug 25, 2013)

Part 1 DB has better comedy, more emphasis on adventure and a more well-rounded cast (when it comes to power lvls anyways).

Part 2 has the better characters, arcs and fights though.


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Aug 25, 2013)

God Movement said:


> One Piece has better comedy than some single genre comedy series, Toriyama is hailed as the king of gag for a reason though, he's really proficient at it. I was talking more about the balance between a few sub genres as what makes Part 1 so good. *Part 2 rules battle manga with an iron fist*.



Punches and Ki blasts is all you need to get a hard on Movement  

Off the top of my head i enjoy Toriko, Feng Shen Ji, and HXH fights more then DB/Z.

On the topic of fights Tien Vs Goku is better then most of the fights in Part 2.


----------



## Whitebeard (Aug 25, 2013)

My favourite manga is better than yours


----------



## Xiammes (Aug 25, 2013)

Part 1 Dragon Ball was better then Part 2 in everything, including the fights.


----------



## God Movement (Aug 25, 2013)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Punches and Ki blasts is all you need to get a hard on Movement
> 
> Off the top of my head i enjoy Toriko, Feng Shen Ji, and HXH fights more then DB/Z.



I don't.

There's only a few Toriko fights I'd go back and read (Tommy vs Toriko goes without saying). HxH takes on a different approach to battles, which is nice for a change, but again, only a few I'd go back and read. The build up to the fights tend to be better than the battles themselves (compare the frantic in York Shin to the pay-off for Kurapica vs Uvogin).

Haven't read the manhwa you're talking about.

There's a handful of Part 1 battles I like, and a handful of Part 2 battles. Not every Part 1 fight is better, and vice versa.


----------



## Gin (Aug 25, 2013)

God Movement said:


> I don't value your opinion because I think your favorite manga sucks


Right back at ya, buddy.


----------



## God Movement (Aug 25, 2013)

Frost said:


> Right back at ya, buddy.



Frost kun let's be mature about this

You laughed at my post, I'm not exactly going to let you write a cheeky one liner and get off scot-free


----------



## Basilikos (Aug 25, 2013)

I've read the first few chapters of Hoshi no Samidare....and tbh I'm feeling bored  of it already. 

Someone tell me at which chapter things get interesting.


----------



## Gin (Aug 25, 2013)

God Movement said:


> Frost kun let's be mature about this
> 
> You laughed at my post, I'm not exactly going to let you write a cheeky one liner and get off scot-free


Certain aspects of your post were _laughable_.

I don't care if you aren't concerned about DBZ's lack of depth, boring fights, repetitive story and its other gaping flaws, but when you start talking about "all the main characters" being "excellently crafted in personality and design"... sorry, but that is pure unadulterated wank.

Your "hurr your opinion is shit becuz I don't like the manga in your set" retort was also rather laughable, so again, I responded as such.


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Aug 25, 2013)

God Movement said:


> I don't.
> 
> There's only a few Toriko fights I'd go back and read (Tommy vs Toriko goes without saying). HxH takes on a different approach to battles, which is nice for a change, but again, only a few I'd go back and read. The build up to the fights tend to be better than the battles themselves (compare the frantic in York Shin to the pay-off for Kurapica vs Uvogin).
> 
> ...



You don't get a hard on from DB/Z fights....I can't be the only one. 

There is nothing wrong with the straight forwardness of DBZ fights but its to simple for me. I like more then that, and as we both know HXH and Toriko is a lot more then just who has the highest Physical stats(more so HxH) when it comes to fights. The ability's are very unique and strategy is implemented. 

Honestly if the Characters themselves were not so great a good bit of the fights would be meh to me. The emotion in Goku vs Vegeta both fights were what made them awesome to me, the actual fight itself in terms of the moves and powers used was alright.  

Anyway DB/Z does have Top tier fights, but IMO that's all it has at the Top tier level. If your going to be the best you need to have the best in pretty much every category said manga offers. DBZ story is mediocre at best, the world building is nothing special, i can count the number of Characters that actually matter and are good characters on my hand ect ect. 

Simply put DB/Z is not 5/5 it has to many short comings, and if your not 5/5 your not the best.(And i do not mean perfect when i say 5/5 lol). Its in my Top 10 and one of my favorites since i grew up with it, but subjectively i can't say its the best manga i have read. Although i do see why some people such as yourself have it as the best or your favorite. 

Really people need to re-read DB/Z. Its not just memorys of the old days that make people say its one of the best.


----------



## Kirito (Aug 25, 2013)

Basilikos said:


> I've read the first few chapters of Hoshi no Samidare....and tbh I'm feeling bored  of it already.
> 
> Someone tell me at which chapter things get interesting.



i was the same as you. i thought it was going to be some kind of gag manga where it was a guy with a talking lizard trying to live an ordinary life.

then things went to shit. keep reading.


----------



## Dellinger (Aug 25, 2013)

Kirito said:


> i was the same as you. i thought it was going to be some kind of gag manga where it was a guy with a talking lizard trying to live an ordinary life.
> 
> then things went to shit. keep reading.



What kind of manga is that?


----------



## God Movement (Aug 25, 2013)

Frost said:


> Certain aspects of your post were _laughable_.
> 
> I don't care if you aren't concerned about DBZ's lack of depth, boring fights, repetitive story and its other gaping flaws, but when you start talking about "all the main characters" being "excellently crafted in personality and design"... sorry, but that is pure unadulterated wank.
> 
> Your "hurr your opinion is shit becuz I don't like the manga in your set" retort was also rather laughable, so again, I responded as such.



The main cast being excellently crafted is true though. All uniquely designed, distinctly different appearances is a lost art nowadays. When reading Dragon Ball can you say you've ever seen a character and felt like you've seen them before? Or confuse them with a different character? No, because they're all designed distinctively. They all have stand-out personalities and perks, none of the main cast are BORING characters. Not Vegeta. Not Goku. Not Piccolo. Not Gohan. Hell, even if some characters mellowed out in Part 2, they definitely had strong personalities in Part 1.

It's a fair point, the series in your set does look shitty and generic, and the fact that it's in your set must mean you like it, and since you don't appear to think highly of DB I'm led to believe that you prefer generic, factory produced, run-of-the-mill series to original and classic works. Hence, your opinion isn't worth much to me i.e. it sucks.


----------



## Whitebeard (Aug 25, 2013)

God Movement said:


> **


and this is where I stopped reading and started laughing


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Aug 25, 2013)

You guys leave GM alone, before i take out the neg hammer.


----------



## Kirito (Aug 25, 2013)

White Hawk said:


> What kind of manga is that?



Hoshi no samidare bruh. lucifer and the biscuit hammer. if you base it from the first chapters you'd think it was a gag manga like i did, then when the MC started meeting other people it got good.


----------



## Gin (Aug 25, 2013)

God Movement said:


> The main cast being excellently crafted is true though. All uniquely designed, distinctly different appearances is a lost art nowadays. When reading Dragon Ball can you say you've ever seen a character and felt like you've seen them before? Or confuse them with a different character? No, because they're all designed distinctively. They all have stand-out personalities and perks, none of the main cast are BORING characters. Not Vegeta. Not Goku. Not Piccolo. Not Gohan. Hell, even if some characters mellowed out in Part 2, they definitely had strong personalities in Part 1.


I find most DBZ characters boring.   Even the more entertaining ones such as Vegeta do little to break the "generic badass" mold.   I know your response will be "but it wasn't generic back then because all such characters were based on Vegeta".   Even if you're correct regarding this, I don't care.   I'm not factoring the influence of DBZ into my assessment.   If a character is based on another but improves upon them, they're the better character, nothing more to it.   



God Movement said:


> It's a fair point, the series in your set *does look shitty and generic*, and the fact that it's in your set must mean you like it, and since you don't appear to think highly of DB I'm led to believe that you prefer generic, factory produced, run-of-the-mill series to original and classic works. Hence, your opinion isn't worth much to me i.e. it sucks.


Your choice of wording seems to indicate that you haven't even read it.   Laughable indeed.


----------



## Dellinger (Aug 25, 2013)

Kirito said:


> Hoshi no samidare bruh. lucifer and the biscuit hammer. if you base it from the first chapters you'd think it was a gag manga like i did, then when the MC started meeting other people it got good.



I have heard that it is really good


----------



## Byrd (Aug 25, 2013)

I would say Black Jack, Astro Boy to be along the top


----------



## Xiammes (Aug 25, 2013)

> It's a fair point, the series in your set does look shitty and generic



Wait you haven't read Akame Ga Kiru and are making claims about it being shitty? I thought you actually read it.

Honestly its one of the more promising shounens around.


----------



## Kirito (Aug 25, 2013)

White Hawk said:


> I have heard that it is really good



yeah it is. go read it. at least now you dont have to wait months to update like i did.


----------



## Byrd (Aug 25, 2013)

honestly without the unexpected deaths Akame Ga Kiru would be your run of the mill shonen, thats pretty much all it has going for it sadly


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Aug 25, 2013)

Akame Ga Kiru is worth giving a try IMO. 

Its nothing mind blowing. The surprise deaths could be a bad or good thing depends on the person i think.

i would give it 3.5/5 right now. Although i do need to catch up on it.


----------



## God Movement (Aug 25, 2013)

an enemy of dragon ball is an enemy of quality



Xiammes said:


> Wait you haven't read Akame Ga Kiru and are making claims about it being shitty? I thought you actually read it.
> 
> Honestly its one of the more promising shounens around.



Hmm, it's made by the same guy that made Arago. Don't judge a book by its cover I guess, the art in his set looks like standard anime formula 101 though, almost High School of the Dead-ish.


----------



## Xiammes (Aug 25, 2013)

> honestly without the unexpected deaths Akame Ga Kiru would be your run of the mill shonen, thats pretty much all it has going for it sadly



I said promising, its still fairly young, I'm actually waiting to see how the next arc is handled before I make any final judgements.


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Aug 25, 2013)

Xiammes said:


> *I said promising, its still fairly young, *I'm actually waiting to see how the next arc is handled before I make any final judgements.



Hmm You say this but i have been getting the impression that the manga is not going to last a lot longer. I mean i have not read the last 3 chapters, but i did not expect the manga to last much longer. Manga time wise anyway, its a monthly manga so in our time it will be some time before its over. 

How much longer do you think the manga gots? My memory is not to good but after they kill the Ice bitch or turn her to the good side, they don't have a lot more stuff to get done do they?


----------



## Toriko (Aug 25, 2013)

Its nothing special. Not better than Dragon Ball.

In all seriousness, there are things i like as much as db, but there is nothing i can say i like more. Andfor as long as you or I live, it will probably stay that way.


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Aug 25, 2013)

^Well of course not lol.


----------



## God Movement (Aug 25, 2013)

I think the problem here is people have differing opinions of what constitutes to a manga being the greatest. Influence doesn't seem to matter to some.


----------



## Xiammes (Aug 25, 2013)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Hmm You say this but i have been getting the impression that the manga is not going to last a lot longer. I mean i have not read the last 3 chapters, but i did not expect the manga to last much longer. Manga time wise anyway, its a monthly manga so in our time it will be some time before its over.
> 
> How much longer do you think the manga gots?



At the rate they are going at? They might be able to make it a 100 chapters, there's alot we don't know about, including that one guy who sent Esdese and Tatsumi to that Island.

70-100 ish chapters in all likelyhood.


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Aug 25, 2013)

God Movement said:


> I think the problem here is people have differing opinions of *what constitutes to a manga being the greatest*. Influence doesn't seem to matter to some.



Thats it. 

when you say the best or greatest i think most people are inclined to lean towards quality, not what it achieved or affected. At least when you talk about Entertainment media. 

Good old Looney Tunes is a classic and we all know how big it was/is in influence but i will tell you right now in terms of cartoons i like Ed, Edd, and Eddy more, Samurai jack, and a few others.


----------



## Kirito (Aug 25, 2013)

Byrdman said:


> honestly without the unexpected deaths Akame Ga Kiru would be your run of the mill shonen, thats pretty much all it has going for it sadly



reason why i dropped it. it pretty much nails the trope about what people say about a manga hiding under the guise of being mature for having frequent deaths but take it away it's average.

but hey maybe its improved.


----------



## God Movement (Aug 25, 2013)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Thats it.
> 
> when you say the best or greatest i think most people are inclined to lean towards quality, not what it achieved or affected. At least when you talk about Entertainment media.
> 
> Good old Looney Tunes is a classic and we all know how big it was/is in influence but i will tell you right now in terms of cartoons i like Ed, Edd, and Eddy more, Samurai jack, and a few others.



To be the GOAT we have to judge it somewhat on more tangibles than just opinion IMO. Influence, sales, awards, longevity... all relevant. Quality wise I definitely think DB is up there too mind you, but that alone isn't what makes it the GOAT because I'll be damned if there aren't manga nearly as good when it comes to overall quality. Why can't they be the GOAT too? Because they lack tangibles.


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Aug 25, 2013)

Controversial Secret. 

I don't drop manga. Once i start reading it i finish it, no matter how long it takes or how crap it becomes. For example Fairy tail, and Both of Oh greats works. I might put it on hold, like Jojos has been for a few months but i will finish what i started. 

Why? Don't know, guess i don't have anything better to do.


----------



## P-X 12 (Aug 25, 2013)

Akame ga Kiru is an okay series. Nothing great, but it has potential. 

Really, my problem with it is that besides Akame and Najenda (and really, most of that includes he character design), the main characters bore me, or at least the living ones. Not to mention the villains don't last long enough for me to care most of the time. The only ones I care about on the villains side are the Prime Minister (maybe his son), Wave (since he's a foil to the man char.), Kurome (same reason, cept with her sister), and that's it. 

Oh, and before anyone tries to pull Esdese;

She's an average to mediocre character and nothing more. There, I said it. 


*Spoiler*: __ 








That dog chapter, though...


----------



## Xiammes (Aug 25, 2013)

I agree with the Villians not lasting long enough, Justice should have lived to the end. I guess the author is trying to make the fanbase hate Mein considering she has been eating all her deathflags.


----------



## God Movement (Aug 25, 2013)

Oh! Great is unarguably the worst mangaka of all time.


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Aug 25, 2013)

God Movement said:


> To be the GOAT we have to judge it somewhat on more tangibles than just opinion IMO. Influence, sales, awards, longevity... all relevant. Quality wise I definitely think DB is up there too mind you, but that alone isn't what makes it the GOAT because I'll be damned if there aren't manga nearly as good when it comes to overall quality. Why can't they be the GOAT too? Because they lack tangibles.



I see what your saying and would agree. 

Its just that me and other don't base are own lists on such tangibles. Or in other-words it depends on what the question is. If someone asks me what my favorite manga is, and what i think the Greatest manga of all time is. I may very well give two different answers, one based purely on quality IMO aka favorite, and the other adding in factors that you just listed.



God Movement said:


> Oh! Great is unarguably the worst mangaka of all time.



He's not that bad....I mean the Starts of his mangas are usually decent i would say.

So its not 100 percent garbage from start to finish...... ck

Jokes aside i would have to agree, despite my love for various characters in Oh! Great manga they are just a mess....a very very ugly mess. 
*
Although i would say Hiro is working towards his Award, he is lucky he made Rave Master.*


----------



## Toriko (Aug 25, 2013)

Kenshiro Kasumi>Kenshiro

Hnk would be even better if ken acted like him

Kenichi is a great mc

Toriko vs Starjun was a good fight

Fsj is good, but storm riders is better in every way.

Storm Riders is as good as Dragon Ball

Idk if I said these already


----------



## Gin (Aug 25, 2013)

Phx12 said:


> Akame ga Kiru is an okay series. Nothing great, but it has potential.
> 
> Really, my problem with it is that besides Akame and Najenda (and really, most of that includes he character design), the main characters bore me, or at least the living ones. Not to mention the villains don't last long enough for me to care most of the time. The only ones I care about on the villains side are the Prime Minister (maybe his son), Wave (since he's a foil to the man char.), Kurome (same reason, cept with her sister), and that's it.
> 
> ...


worst post in this thread, and that includes all the DBZ apologist BS


----------



## God Movement (Aug 25, 2013)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> I see what your saying and would agree.
> 
> Its just that me and other don't base are own lists on such tangibles. Or in other-words it depends on what the question is. If someone asks me what my favorite manga is, and what i think the Greatest manga of all time is. I may very well give two different answers, one based purely on quality IMO aka favorite, and the other adding in factors that you just listed.
> 
> ...



Yes, that makes sense. The favorite and the greatest should be separate.

Decent starts, sure. But then I can't remember any other series I've read that don't make sense by accident, if they don't make sense it'd be on purpose. The guy is a hack full stop.


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Aug 25, 2013)

Toriko said:


> *Kenshiro Kasumi>Kenshiro*
> 
> Hnk would be even better if ken acted like him
> 
> ...



You mentioned the bold i think. 

Storm Riders, i never heard of it. But if its better then Fsj in every-way, and as good as DB its worth checking out. Although i highly doubt i will feel the same way, how bad could it be lol.


----------



## Toriko (Aug 25, 2013)

Trust me, its fsj on steroids. Picture a series where everyone is as cool as Ah Gou or cooler, but with better art, plot, fights, and sales.


----------



## P-X 12 (Aug 25, 2013)

Frost said:


> worst post in this thread, and that includes all the DBZ apologist BS





Also, is Oh! Great really that bad? I've never read Air Gear or anything else of his.


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Aug 25, 2013)

God Movement said:


> Yes, that makes sense. The favorite and the greatest should be separate.
> 
> Decent starts, sure. *But then I can't remember any other series I've read that don't make sense by accident,* if they don't make sense it'd be on purpose. The guy is a hack full stop.



So true..

I still recall reading the Tenjho Tenge flashback(The long one in the latter half) around 2+ years ago.

I was reading it then i asked myself, what the hell is going on i had no idea what i was reading the entire flash back, and even after the flash back i was confused as hell. Honestly i just stopped paying attention to the story and just tried to enjoy the fights



Toriko said:


> Trust me, its fsj on steroids. Picture a series where everyone is as cool as Ah Gou or cooler, but with better art, plot, fights, and sales.



Ok toriko i will trust you. 

I was going to start catching up on some other stuff but i will check this out first. 

Where should i go to read it?


----------



## God Movement (Aug 25, 2013)

Every mangaka with generic art is lazy and his/her works should be overlooked


----------



## P-X 12 (Aug 25, 2013)

So basically, he can't right stories for shit?

Is that the jist of it?


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Aug 25, 2013)

^Pretty much.

The characters i would say are decent, and if you can understand the craziness of some of the fights they are ok as well.

But the Story is like the last arc of Fairy tail quality consistently just minus all the awesome fan service and decent laughs. Starting from around the middle of the manga to the end.


----------



## God Movement (Aug 25, 2013)

the plots he makes don't make any sense

for both of the popular series that he's made, so he's a serial offender


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Aug 25, 2013)

God Movement said:


> the plots he makes don't make any sense
> 
> for both of the popular series that he's made, so he's a serial offender




Also i heard his newest manga to which he is just doing the art, is already bad. 

I forgot what it was called but i was not interested in it. Poor guy can't even find a good partner to write the story for him.


----------



## God Movement (Aug 25, 2013)

he has a distinctive art style, a diamond in the rough for sure in today's climate

it's a shame he can't write to save his life

other opinions i have

- one piece isn't overrated
- i hate the art in the newer saint seiya works, the classical art by kurumada can't be topped
- devilman is one of the best manga ever made


----------



## Basilikos (Aug 25, 2013)

Kirito said:


> i was the same as you. i thought it was going to be some kind of gag manga where it was a guy with a talking lizard trying to live an ordinary life.
> 
> then things went to shit. keep reading.


Eh, I'll give it more time to prove itself then.



God Movement said:


> I think the problem here is people have differing opinions of what constitutes to a manga being the greatest. Influence doesn't seem to matter to some.


Influence has never mattered to me.  Because being influential/inspiring to others doesn't make something well written or entertaining *for me* as the consumer of that piece of media.

Shit, look at Project ARMS.  It's a manga hardly anyone even knows about, yet it's got great plot, character development, action, suspense, and an epic/dark atmosphere going for it.



Frost said:


> worst post in this thread, and that includes all the DBZ apologist BS


You need to chill out, dude.


----------



## Toriko (Aug 25, 2013)

Srs. Anyone reading this thread google wing shing ma. He is basically china's akira toriyama.

Every manhua literally copies his to varying degrees of success


----------



## God Movement (Aug 25, 2013)

Basilikos said:


> Eh, I'll give it more time to prove itself then.
> 
> 
> Influence has never mattered to me.  Because being influential/inspiring to others doesn't make something well written or entertaining *for me* as the consumer of that piece of media.
> ...



All that tangible stuff doesn't affect my outlook on how much I enjoy DB, it affects my constructive decision of whether or not it's the greatest manga made. But we'll leave all the DB stuff alone. That name alone invokes rage in all of the enemies of quality.


----------



## Byrd (Aug 25, 2013)

Osamu Tezuka is the most influential manga artist till this date... even influencing Disney movies and countless other materials...

This is a fact


----------



## Basilikos (Aug 25, 2013)

God Movement said:


> - devilman is one of the best manga ever made


How so? 

The whole thing just felt like little more than a senseless gore and slaughter parade.  Contrived shock factor and whatnot, basically being edgy just for the sake of being edgy.  The anticlimactic ending didn't help either.


----------



## God Movement (Aug 25, 2013)

Basilikos said:


> How so?
> 
> The whole thing just felt like little more than a senseless gore and slaughter parade.  Contrived shock factor and whatnot, basically being edgy just for the sake of being edgy.  The anticlimactic ending didn't help either.



Well in its sub genre? I think its more or less the leader, the whole manga has this eerie atmosphere, maybe it's Nagai's obscure, dark art that creates it, I don't know but it's capturing. It's hard for a horror manga to have such a feeling without sound or animation to support it, but Devilman manages it fine. The twist with Ryo being Satan was rather unexpected until it was hinted at, several genuine tear jerking scenes too, the ending was rather anticlimatic sure, that's the only thing I think lets it down however.

Might just be me being a big fan of Nagai though, guy is a genius of Toriyama's calibre or above.



Byrdman said:


> Osamu Tezuka is the most influential manga artist till this date... even influencing Disney movies and countless other materials...
> 
> This is a fact



He's another genius, top tier mangaka for sure.


----------



## Blαck (Aug 25, 2013)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Controversial Secret.
> 
> I don't drop manga. Once i start reading it i finish it, no matter how long it takes or how crap it becomes. For example Fairy tail, and Both of Oh greats works. I might put it on hold, like Jojos has been for a few months but i will finish what i started.
> 
> Why? Don't know, guess i don't have anything better to do.


Same here, probably the only reason I haven't dropped Nardo and FT.


Toriko said:


> Kenshiro Kasumi>Kenshiro
> 
> Hnk would be even better if ken acted like him
> 
> ...


Definitely controversial.


----------



## Toriko (Aug 25, 2013)

Apart from komatsu, the fight had not one meaningful flaw imo.

It wasnt the greatest fight ever, but i legit laughed my ass off irl when everyone was calling it shit.


----------



## God Movement (Aug 25, 2013)

Fight was too messy, too much blood, too many random attacks (i understand he was using UR but still). One thing it had that most Toriko fights before it lacked though was high stakes. And high stakes are the number 1 thing that makes a fight interesting.


----------



## Toriko (Aug 25, 2013)

Yes. It was the only fight in the series to actually matter.

And the contents of the fight reflect that.


----------



## Byrd (Aug 25, 2013)

I consider Arachnid to have some of the best fighting choreography I seen in a battle shonen.. I like the way the protray assassins with insects


----------



## Crimson Dragoon (Aug 25, 2013)

terrible opinions, the thread

not surprised bas is among them


----------



## Blαck (Aug 25, 2013)

Toriko said:


> Apart from komatsu, the fight had not one meaningful flaw imo.
> 
> It wasnt the greatest fight ever, but i legit laughed my ass off irl when everyone was calling it shit.



Nah, it literally felt like I was reading Bleach. Shenanigans everywhere, the only thing that saved that fight was the fact that Stayjun won, and barely won at that.


----------



## Toriko (Aug 25, 2013)

He beat this shit out of Toriko though. It wasnt close at all.

Damn, bleach level though?


----------



## Crimson Dragoon (Aug 25, 2013)

God Movement said:


> Well in its sub genre? I think its more or less the leader, the whole manga has this eerie atmosphere, maybe it's Nagai's obscure, dark art that creates it, I don't know but it's capturing. It's hard for a horror manga to have such a feeling without sound or animation to support it, but Devilman manages it fine. The twist with Ryo being Satan was rather unexpected until it was hinted at, several genuine tear jerking scenes too, the ending was rather anticlimatic sure, that's the only thing I think lets it down however.
> 
> Might just be me being a big fan of Nagai though, guy is a genius of Toriyama's calibre or above.



the scenes where humanity creates their own hell and specifically Miki's death were just well done 

Nagai said he put a lot of himself into that manga, and it shows


----------



## God Movement (Aug 25, 2013)

Crimson Dragoon said:


> terrible opinions, the thread
> 
> not surprised bas is among them



hate on good series, the thread

it's a real shame



Crimson Dragoon said:


> the scenes where humanity creates their own hell and specifically Miki's death were just well done
> 
> Nagai said he put a lot of himself into that manga, and it shows



Miki's death was just brilliant, just the surprise of it all, you'd think that she'd make it out alive but Akira comes back to just a severed head. Epic stuff. I liked the Deathmask turtle too, the scene with the little girl who Akira tried to save.

I'd say it's one of Nagai's best works, but he has like 30 other manga to choose from.


----------



## Gain (Aug 25, 2013)

I liked Violence Jack more than Devilman


----------



## Basilikos (Aug 25, 2013)

This one may cause a stir  :

I think Bastard is underrated.  

The main character is an alpha male badass, the artwork gets *godly* later on, the worldbuilding and history are absolutely superb, awesome fights, suspense, and epicness.  The only real flaws IMO are the fanservice and Hagiwara screwing up the order of some events.

I think that Toriko and Guyver are underrated as well.  

Guyver is interesting to read from the get go since it throws the reader into the plot right away, has suspense, interesting history, great fights, and an ominous atmosphere.  A real page turner.  

Toriko has some of the best damn wordlbuilding, creativity, and feeling of adventure I've ever seen.  The plot is very simple, yet it's played out well, and the fights, badassery, and epic moments are in no shortage either.  A really original and fun manga overall.

Despite the fact that I've been to Anime Expo multiple times and am a member of the anime/manga club on my university's campus, I've yet to meet a single person *IRL* who is a fan of any of these three mangas.  Everyone seems obsessed with only HST, Fairy Tail, Sword Art Online, TTGL, NGE, etc.


----------



## Toriko (Aug 25, 2013)

Akira in devilman is scarier than Amon or Violence Jack, no contest.

^bas knows his stuff.

Guyver is a great read it is.


----------



## Crimson Dragoon (Aug 25, 2013)

I still have to read Violence Jack

it's on my list though


----------



## Byrd (Aug 25, 2013)

Controversial opinion:

I think Eva. Final is gonna be truly amazing... and that 3.0 was Anno intentionally fucking with us


----------



## Gain (Aug 25, 2013)

Crimson Dragoon said:


> I still have to read Violence Jack
> 
> it's on my list though



Well, I have to clarify that I only read Volumes 1 - 3 of Violence Jack and have viewed the rest of the series untranslated.

Still, yeah iz good


----------



## Toriko (Aug 25, 2013)

Crimson Dragoon said:


> I still have to read Violence Jack
> 
> it's on my list though



Think Devilman, but the size of broly.

And with an big ass knife


----------



## Crimson Dragoon (Aug 25, 2013)

Kate Nash said:


> Well, I have to clarify that I only read Volumes 1 - 3 of Violence Jack and have viewed the rest of the series untranslated.
> 
> Still, yeah iz good



I heard most of it is still untranslated 

shame about that


----------



## God Movement (Aug 25, 2013)

Violence Jack is very good actually, it's just as good as Devilman

My favorite Devilman scene though:

city of the dead sorcerer 
city of the dead sorcerer 
city of the dead sorcerer 
city of the dead sorcerer


----------



## Blαck (Aug 25, 2013)

Toriko said:


> He beat this shit out of Toriko though. It wasnt close at all.
> 
> Damn, bleach level though?



It shifted a few times, Shima shouldn't have let Stayjun charbroil Toriko's ass on page one if he was gonna do the rest. And he only beat the shit outta Toriko at the very end and still ended up with a gaping hole in his chest on some Hollow shit.

Called it Bleach level because I fucking hate it in any manga when a character pulls that "Now's the time to use/perfect that technique I should've mastered earlier." Sadly a lot manga does this.


----------



## OS (Aug 25, 2013)

BTW Bas, you are calling a pedo a bad ass. Just saiyan.


----------



## Gain (Aug 25, 2013)

Basilikos said:


> This one may cause a stir  :
> 
> I think Bastard is underrated.
> 
> The main character is an alpha male badass, the artwork gets *godly* later on, the worldbuilding and history are absolutely superb, awesome fights, suspense, and epicness.  The only real flaws IMO are the fanservice and Hagiwara screwing up the order of some events.



I sometimes think Bastard only ever showed up on peoples radar because of the zealous fans here on NF. Would have thought it would be a series everyone would be into considering they sit through a lot of garbage willingly like Tenjho Tenge.


----------



## Toriko (Aug 25, 2013)

Torikos little stunt at the end really shouldnt count. It was clear otherwise that Star was dominating the entire fight though.

Struggling to bruise star vs tearing toriko apart with every direct hit and all that


----------



## God Movement (Aug 25, 2013)

guyver isn't underrated really, it's just really unknown because a chapter comes out once every 5 years


----------



## Byrd (Aug 25, 2013)

My Last one..

Classics >>>> New Stuff

I've been reading through a lot of classical mangas from old anime shows I have seen... they tend to be more developed and well-executed than current stuff....


----------



## Basilikos (Aug 25, 2013)

Original Sin said:


> BTW Bas, you are calling a pedo a bad ass. Just saiyan.


How is DS a pedo? 



Kate Nash said:


> I sometimes think Bastard only ever showed up on peoples radar because of the zealous fans here on NF. Would have thought it would be a series everyone would be into considering they sit through a lot of garbage willingly like Tenjho Tenge.


Never read the manga for TT.  I tried to watch the anime some years back but dropped it due to never ending flash backs and it just being meh in general.



God Movement said:


> guyver isn't underrated really, it's just really unknown because a chapter comes out once every 5 years


Wouldn't being unknown imply being underrated too?


----------



## Gain (Aug 25, 2013)

Oh, I think Apocalypse Zero is probably the best shounen ever created


you guys should....check it out

city of the dead sorcerer


----------



## Blαck (Aug 25, 2013)

Toriko said:


> Torikos little stunt at the end really shouldnt count. It was clear otherwise that Star was dominating the entire fight though.
> 
> Struggling to bruise star vs tearing toriko apart with every direct hit and all that



I won't count the end then, that was just a nice little peek at what Toriko will be capable of later. But as for the Stayjun dominating the whole time thing? There was way too much blood drawn from Stayjun personally to say that, he even go his knife broken by someone he should've wrecked at the beginning


----------



## Byrd (Aug 25, 2013)

Kate Nash said:


> Oh, I think *Apocalypse Zero* is probably the best shounen ever created
> 
> 
> you guys should....check it out
> ...



oh fuck that, I seen scenes of that shit  

Not a huge fan of Gore Porn


----------



## OS (Aug 25, 2013)

DS is the equivalent of Edward from Twilight but worse in the pedo sense. I should not have to explain.


----------



## Basilikos (Aug 25, 2013)

Original Sin said:


> DS is the equivalent of Edward from Twilight but worse in the pedo sense. I should not have to explain.


>calls DS a pedo
>comparing Bastard to Twilight
>claims he doesn't have to back up his assertions

lol OS


----------



## OS (Aug 25, 2013)

So you think that him raising brown elf bitch since she was a child and then fucking her is not being a bit worse than Edward who fell for some angsty teenager? Bas please.

tl;dr he fucked his adopted daughter and still would.


----------



## Basilikos (Aug 25, 2013)

Original Sin said:


> So you think that him raising brown elf bitch since she was a child and then fucking her is not being a bit worse than Edward who fell for some angsty teenager? Bas please.
> 
> tl;dr he fucked his adopted daughter and still would.


Despite the fact that the fanservice/sexually questionable things of Bastard are flaws that I already explicitly noted in this thread and elsewhere on NF?  OS, please.

Your claim regarding DS being a pedo is misleading for anyone who hasn't actually read the manga.  There's no action or words on his part or from the narrator that have him ever doing something like that to Nei when she was a kid.  IIRC, the manga notes that Nei actually developed feelings for DS on her own when she got older.  Do I like it?  No, but to label DS a pedo is just blatantly wrong.

Context.  Use it, don't ignore it.  Seriously, your selective bias with the actual facts and how you intentionally twist them to deceive is really something else.


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Aug 25, 2013)

God Movement said:


> Fight was too messy, too much blood, too many random attacks (i understand he was using UR but still). *One thing it had that most Toriko fights before it lacked though was high stakes.* And high stakes are the number 1 thing that makes a fight interesting.



Which High stakes do you speak of?

I mean most of Toriko main fights his life and Komatsus are in potential danger so i don't see any major difference, besides the outcome of course. Toriko losing this fight and Komatsu getting capture.


----------



## Toriko (Aug 25, 2013)

@black knight

If i walked ou of a fight with bruises and my blood everywhere, but not really having expended a lot of energy, while you lay on the ground exhausted, full of holes, and minus a lung, an arm, and your legs, how didnt I whoop your ass?

Sure his knife was broken, but it was by 50 consecutive attacks.

All in all starjun dominating the fight really isnt even debatable tbh.


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Aug 25, 2013)

^He is saying Star was not kicking his ass the entire fight. All the major things you listed did not happen intil the very end after Toriko broke his knife.


----------



## OS (Aug 25, 2013)

Basilikos said:


> Despite the fact that the fanservice/sexually questionable things of Bastard are flaws that I already explicitly noted in this thread and elsewhere on NF?  OS, please.
> 
> Your claim regarding DS being a pedo is misleading for anyone who hasn't actually read the manga.  There's no action or words on his part or from the narrator that have him ever doing something like that to Nei when she was a kid.  IIRC, the manga notes that Nei actually developed feelings for DS on her own when she got older.  Do I like it?  No, but to label DS a pedo is just blatantly wrong.
> 
> Context.  Use it, don't ignore it.  Seriously, your selective bias with the actual facts and how you intentionally twist them to deceive is really something else.


lol bass. He raised her then fucked her. That is clear as hell. Let's not forget that he's very very very very old. I already compared him to edward and explained he had a little girl that he raised and eventually tapped it when she was older.


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Aug 25, 2013)

Newest ToG Chapter was not bad.

Hatsu is boss(Although i will admit his new looks i do not like aka EMO look).


----------



## Badalight (Aug 25, 2013)

Jagger said:


> Son, you can leave the internet now.
> 
> Here's the door. Here's a little Naruto plushie for posting on this forums and I hope you enjoyed your stay!
> 
> ...



I ask for someone to explain to me why it's good, and I get this.

K, that's about what I expected from the fandom of such a series.


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Aug 25, 2013)

Badalight said:


> I ask for someone to explain to me why it's good, and I get this.
> 
> K, that's about what I expected from the fandom of such a series.



Which Series are you referring to. 

Also Badalight i think you missed the dude saying Part 2 of Jojo was his least favorite.


----------



## Badalight (Aug 25, 2013)

Angelator said:


> The second is also not controversial. 7/10 is actually pretty well above average, which 2nd part is.



Part 2 is great. Joseph is basically the original "trickster" stereotype in Shounen, and he certainly hasn't been surpassed. I really like how every fight he was in he came in as the complete underdog, fighting god-like men despite being a normal human and coming out on top by outsmarting them.

Story wise, jojos has never been anything special... but at least part 2 doesn't have the monster of the week formula that parts 3-6 reek of. Some handle it better than others, but part 2 never becomes repetitive and certainly doesn't overstay its welcome like 3, 5, and even 6 do.



B Rabbit said:


> Yoshikage is my fave villain.
> 
> Dio was amazing. Idk if this is controversial but I didn't really like part 2



Yoshikage is super underrated. Part 2 is my favorite 




Zidane said:


> Jolyne is a better character then her Dad.



I'm not even sure if this is debateable. Jolyne easily has the best development of any of the joestars, and that's just a fact. The only one who even comes close is Johnny - and in my opinion that makes her a better character.

Jotaro doesn't really grow, and his biggest draw is his stoic badassness. Some people go crazy for that, but I find it a tad boring. At least he has a better screen presence than Giorno.



Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Which Series are you referring to.
> 
> Also Badalight i think you missed the dude saying Part 2 of Jojo was his least favorite.



Tower of God.

And yeah, I quoted him in this post. Dude is crazy


----------



## Lee-Sensei (Aug 25, 2013)

There's so much hate in this threat (especially from our good friend Frost). I won't make any arguments for DBZ, but Dragon Ball is pretty awesome.


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Aug 25, 2013)

I like Tower of God for its story and characters. The battles in of themselves are ok, but they become pretty good due to the fact that most of them are not straight up battles.

The art is crap plain and simple at the start, but it gets much better. Also if you can read HxH then you can handle some bad art intil it gets better so get over it folks. 

Can't really say more without spoilers. Just Read ToG, it won't take long, i think its worth the read.

Edit: Actually just read until you get to the end of the crown games. If you don't find it interesting enough to keep reading then just drop it.


----------



## Badalight (Aug 25, 2013)

Well, I don't read hxh actually  

Though art is the last thing I look for in a manga, but good art certainly helps a series and bad art can definitely hinder it.


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Aug 25, 2013)

^I finally forced myself to read HXH recently. The art was a major turn off to me actually.

Go read HxH like now shame on you for not reading it yet.


----------



## Dellinger (Aug 25, 2013)

Part 7 > Part 2


----------



## Basilikos (Aug 25, 2013)

Original Sin said:


> lol bass. He raised her then fucked her. That is clear as hell.


Uh, their relationship was mutual and occurred when Nei was an adult.  It's not like DS brainwashed her into falling for him.  If anything, he saved her from a life of isolation by raising her up along with Kal Su.



> Let's not forget that he's very very very very old.


Relevance?  Nei's no kid herself, she is over 100 years old specifically IIRC.  Being half elf, she's blessed with longevity.  Would you remind me again exactly how two people in a relationship who are both well over a hundred years old with the intelligence of adults is the same as pedophilia or Edward Cunten's situation from Twilight?



> I already compared him to edward and explained he had a little girl that he raised and eventually tapped it when she was older.


Forgive me for not being fully aware of the significance of your analogies to Twilight.  I've never read/seen it, all I know is that it has lame as hell vampires that sparkle in the sun of all things.  It's unlikely that your analogies are even legitimate given that you know fuck all about anything else you've tried to talk about here.


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Aug 25, 2013)

^^Never read part 7 but from what i heard no its not ^_^


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Aug 25, 2013)

The 2011 anime is great thats fine then lol...Although that same god dame opening every season good lord change it already. I have heard You Can Try Again enough times in my life.


----------



## wowfel (Aug 25, 2013)

Sanctuary arc in SS is bullshit never seen so many ass pulls in my life!


----------



## Fujita (Aug 25, 2013)

Phx12 said:


> Akame ga Kiru is an okay series. Nothing great, but it has potential.



This is true enough.

The series shines because it grafts an unhealthy amount of death and violence onto a story/art mold that doesn't really make you expect that. Apart from that, while solid enough, it's not fantastic.  



> Oh, and before anyone tries to pull Esdese;
> 
> She's an average to mediocre character and nothing more. There, I said it.



Not sure if the  is meant for sarcasm or what but

on the off chance not

She's actually my favorite character in the series. The way the author mixes war criminal and schoolgirl with a crush is just perversely entertaining. 



> That dog chapter, though...



What, dog rape too off-putting for you? Then the manga's done its exploitative shock value thing just as intended  



Badalight said:


> I ask for someone to explain to me why it's good, and I get this.
> 
> K, that's about what I expected from the fandom of such a series.



I'll copy-paste what I wrote in a convo to somebody a while back



			
				Me said:
			
		

> I really love it. Can't put my finger on exactly what it is about the series that makes me like it so much. The testing plot isn't exactly novel in manga, though the execution is superb. The strategy element is great, like in the Crown Game, the maze game (Koon's scheme there was my favorite in the manhwa to date, especially with the overlaid plot to get Quant to protect Baam), and the final test in Evankhell's Hell.
> 
> The setting is rather ingenious, and that's probably the story's strongest point. It's a perfect mix of clinical bureaucracy with a wild, bizarre and massive world to explore as a backdrop. The testing floors remind me of video game settings: an elaborate proving ground that serves little purpose but to challenge the characters. But the whole thing is driven by a mythology (High Rankers, Irregulars) that hints at a much less tightly controlled world you just want to explore. Weird juxtaposition, but it works.


----------



## Badalight (Aug 25, 2013)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> The 2011 anime is great thats fine then lol...Although that same god dame opening every season good lord change it already. I have heard You Can Try Again enough times in my life.



I used to love the opening, but yeah... it got old quite awhile ago.

And I feel like the endings gradually get worse every time.


----------



## Lee-Sensei (Aug 25, 2013)

Xiammes said:


> Your're crusin for a bruisin



Baccano's great, I just felt that Durarara was better.

I also feel that Samurai Champloo is better than Cowboy Bebop.


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Aug 25, 2013)

Lee-Sensei said:


> Baccano's great, I just felt that Durarara was better.
> 
> *I also feel that Samurai Champloo is better than Cowboy **Bebop*.



You might get a couple negs for this one Lee.


----------



## Lee-Sensei (Aug 25, 2013)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> You might get a couple negs for this one Lee.



That's fine. It'll just prove that Bleach fans *aren't* the worst in the world.

And I'm not saying that CB is bad. The last episode with Viscious was arguably the best episode I've ever seen of an anime. Just that I enjoyed SC more. I feel that SC was superior to CB and that Samurai Champloo doesn't get the credit it deserves.

It's a bit strange that I enjoy it more because I like Jazz and Sci-Fi way more than rap and Jidai Geki. But I felt that the story for each of the main three characters was better crafted and better explained.


----------



## Byrd (Aug 25, 2013)

Forgot about this

Every single one of this girls are more quality based, in-depth, more likeable, than any character in today's mainstream shonen


----------



## P-X 12 (Aug 25, 2013)

Fujita said:


> This is true enough.
> 
> The series shines because it grafts an unhealthy amount of death and violence onto a story/art mold that doesn't really make you expect that. Apart from that, while solid enough, it's not fantastic.







> Not sure if the  is meant for sarcasm or what but
> 
> on the off chance not
> 
> She's actually my favorite character in the series. The way the author mixes war criminal and schoolgirl with a crush is just perversely entertaining.



She' pretty decent (one of the better characters, really), but I wish her whole "Strongkilling the weak" mentality she had was more prevalent over he love for Tatsumi (or at least find a certain balance).

Speaking of Tatsumi, I don't like him as the main character all that much. I keep getting Amayima vibes from him (or at least in regards to his relationship with Braht) but I never got the same aura from Tatsumi that I got from Amayima. 



> What, dog rape too off-putting for you? Then the manga's done its exploitative shock value thing just as intended



I'm still baffled as to how he was able to make that and still be considered Shonen. 

I mean, how does he get away with all of that full body nudity ( I know they don't show anything in detail, but still)?


----------



## Lee-Sensei (Aug 25, 2013)

@Byrdman Even One Piece? What is that from?

More opinions. Neon Genesis Evangelion is a bit pretentious, but still underrated by haters.


----------



## Byrd (Aug 25, 2013)

Lee-Sensei said:


> @Byrdman Even One Piece? What is that from?
> 
> More opinions. Neon Genesis Evangelion is a bit pretentious, but still underrated by haters.



Muv-Luv franchise, was originally a Visual Novel but now has mangas and anime associated with it  and yes One Piece is included... seriously... 

Manly Tears WILL be shed...


----------



## Jagger (Aug 25, 2013)

Badalight said:


> I ask for someone to explain to me why it's good, and I get this.
> 
> K, that's about what I expected from the fandom of such a series.


>2012+1. 
>Doesn't know what a joke is.

If I was serious, I would have negged you or something. 

Anyway, I could make a wall of text trying to explain why I love Tower of God, I could go and on until my fanboy side takes over, so I'm just going to link you to another wall of text that explains ToG's good and bad sides.


----------



## OS (Aug 25, 2013)

>this thread
>still not 5 stars

you guys disgust me.


----------



## Reyes (Aug 26, 2013)

Josuke is the best Joestar


----------



## Morglay (Aug 26, 2013)

I would trade any of the HST for more Dark Air.


----------



## OtherGalaxy (Aug 26, 2013)

leokiko said:


> EDIT: Oh wait! Thought of one! I dislike Tower of God. It just didn't appeal to me at all, it was my first time reading a webtoon. Wouldn't say it is overrated because I haven't actually rated it from a objective viewpoint but from what I read, the setting is too freaking confusing, and the main character has no personality. Barely even talks. But again, I read like 1/4 of it.



Late but it can't be helped

Anyhow, the setting being confusing was one thing that stuck out when I started it as well, but it's all explained later on

It is way too vast at the start though imo and it takes a while before it develops a 'system' so to speak


----------



## Dellinger (Aug 26, 2013)

Baam definitely has a personality and you hear that from a guy that dropped tower of God.


----------



## OtherGalaxy (Aug 26, 2013)

Speaking of Baam

Baam>Viole

Not like Viole's attitude isn't justified, but I liked how cheery Baam was in spite of everything going on


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (Aug 26, 2013)

Cell >>>>> Frieza


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Aug 26, 2013)

Viole>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Baam.


----------



## Renegade Knight (Aug 26, 2013)

Fluttershy said:


> Cell >>>>> Frieza



No.


----------



## Toriko (Aug 26, 2013)

Cell looks cooler, that's about it.


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Aug 27, 2013)

Not sure if Controversial or not.

But i like Zetman, like a lot. better then most manga i read


----------



## Toriko (Aug 27, 2013)

Yeah, zetman is a pretty great series.


----------



## 8 (Aug 27, 2013)

not manga. but i think cowboy bebop was extremely boring. took me years to force myself trough all episodes. baccano was also very boring, i couldn't be bothered to watch the last two episodes. i also could't finish durarara. and mawaru penguindrum was plain stupid. i only seen half of it. all popular anime i guess.


----------



## Lee-Sensei (Aug 27, 2013)

8 said:


> not manga. but i think cowboy bebop was extremely boring. took me years to force myself trough all episodes. baccano was also very boring, i couldn't be bothered to watch the last two episodes. i also could't finish durarara. and mawaru penguindrum was plain stupid. i only seen half of it. all popular anime i guess.



You should give Durarara another chance.


----------



## Byrd (Aug 27, 2013)

8 said:


> not manga. but i think cowboy bebop was extremely boring. took me years to force myself trough all episodes. baccano was also very boring, i couldn't be bothered to watch the last two episodes. i also could't finish durarara. and mawaru penguindrum was plain stupid. i only seen half of it. all popular anime i guess.



Now I actually quite curious on what you find as good...

Did you like Wolf Rain?


----------



## Null (Aug 27, 2013)

Fluttershy said:


> Cell >>>>> Frieza



I          agree


----------



## Jagger (Aug 27, 2013)

OtherGalaxy said:


> Speaking of Baam
> 
> Baam>Viole
> 
> Not like Viole's attitude isn't justified, but I liked how cheery Baam was in spite of everything going on


Can you really blame Viole after all the shit he has gone through far? 

I would have snapped at this point, he's keeping his cool for now.


----------



## ZenithXAbyss (Aug 28, 2013)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> *Newest ToG Chapter was not bad.*
> 
> Hatsu is boss(Although i will admit his new looks i do not like aka EMO look).



>implying that there are bad ToG chapters.


----------



## Basilikos (Aug 28, 2013)

8 said:


> not manga. but i think cowboy bebop was extremely boring. took me years to force myself trough all episodes.


While I do think Cowoby Bebop is one of the most overrated anime series of all time, I wouldn't go so far as to say that it was "extremely boring".  

It's still an alright show, but I wouldn't score it any higher than a 7/10, personally.


----------



## ZenithXAbyss (Aug 28, 2013)

Cowboy Bebop is not boring as a whole, it does have boring episodes though.


----------



## OtherGalaxy (Aug 28, 2013)

Jagger said:


> Can you really blame Viole after all the shit he has gone through far?
> 
> I would have snapped at this point, he's keeping his cool for now.



Not at all 

Like I said his attitude is completely justified
I just like Baam more than Viole is all


----------



## ZenithXAbyss (Aug 28, 2013)

Baam's Badass Moments > Viole's.


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Aug 28, 2013)

^Baam did something more bad ass then Viole fighting it out with Urek?

I think not.


----------



## ZenithXAbyss (Aug 28, 2013)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> ^Baam did something more bad ass then Viole fighting it out with Urek?
> 
> I think not.




*Spoiler*: __


----------



## OtherGalaxy (Aug 28, 2013)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> ^Baam did something more bad ass then Viole fighting it out with Urek?
> 
> I think not.



everything he does 
I'm not biased at all


----------



## Badalight (Aug 28, 2013)

I think Zetman is actually a pretty bad manga with a ton of cliches and stereotypes, but I enjoy it nontheless because it reminds me of Guyver.


----------



## Byrd (Aug 28, 2013)

I actually thought every episode of CB was perfectly done...

Although I did find ToG part 1, although its great.. its not excellent... would rate it a 7/10

Rate it the same as I would One Piece

Digimon Tamers is the best Digimon 

Deadman Wonderland & Soul Eater were lacking extremely as they progress to the point of boredom


----------



## x5exotic (Aug 28, 2013)

> One Piece has the worst art, not because of the simple stick-figure drawings, but because it conveys no emotions whatsoever, forcing the writer to exaggerate the drawings and make the character's expressions... extreme. 


> Jojo part 1 sucked. There's absolutely nothing about it other than a good start. The over-the-top isn't done well, making it really cheesy rather than cool.

> Speedwagon is more annoying than Nina from Geass, Gai-Sensei and Ussop combined.

*> Anyone who thinks Seinen is for adults is a man-child. *


----------



## ZenithXAbyss (Aug 28, 2013)

x5exotic said:


> > *One Piece has the worst art, not because of the simple stick-figure drawings, but because it conveys no emotions whatsoever, forcing the writer to exaggerate the drawings and make the character's expressions... extreme*.
> 
> 
> > Jojo part 1 sucked. There's absolutely nothing about it other than a good start. The over-the-top isn't done well, making it really cheesy rather than cool.
> ...



UWOTM8?


----------



## OtherGalaxy (Aug 28, 2013)

x5exotic said:


> > Speedwagon is more annoying than Nina from Geass, Gai-Sensei and Ussop combined.



haven't you already voiced your SpeedWagon hate several times in this thread alone?


----------



## x5exotic (Aug 28, 2013)

That was in the overrated character thread, noob.


Not that I need justification; he's a ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".) and whoever creates such characters needs to be be punished accordingly.


----------



## Morglay (Aug 28, 2013)

x5exotic said:


> *> Speedwagon is more annoying than Nina from Geass, Gai-Sensei and Ussop combined.*



All God-tier characters.


----------



## Lee-Sensei (Aug 28, 2013)

@Byrdman There are a lot of great episodes of Cowboy Bebop, but perfection is hard to achieve. Don't you think you might be overrating it about.


Is that Gon?


----------



## Dellinger (Aug 28, 2013)

Well,there's only one manga with such horrible art most of the time


----------



## Lee-Sensei (Aug 28, 2013)

White Hawk said:


> Well,there's only one manga with such horrible art most of the time



Jesus. When did he go from this to that? That's so lazy.


----------



## OmniOmega (Aug 28, 2013)

x5exotic said:


> *> One Piece has the worst art, not because of the simple stick-figure drawings, but because it conveys no emotions whatsoever, forcing the writer to exaggerate the drawings and make the character's expressions... extreme. *
> 
> 
> > Jojo part 1 sucked. There's absolutely nothing about it other than a good start. The over-the-top isn't done well, making it really cheesy rather than cool.
> ...



Son you live on like Mars or some shit


----------



## ZenithXAbyss (Aug 28, 2013)




----------



## x5exotic (Aug 28, 2013)

Damn White Hawk has to be really butthurt to bring up some other series. 

Anyway, yeah, HxH's art is much better. Emotions are actually conveyed the way the writer intends them to be. 
No "try too hard and hope for the best" mentality.

Togashi might be physically lazy, but Oda is creatively lazy, which is worse. You got like what? 20 arcs of the same story? No new ideas, or original  even.


----------



## Byrd (Aug 28, 2013)

Lee-Sensei said:


> @Byrdman There are a lot of great episodes of Cowboy Bebop, but perfection is hard to achieve. Don't you think you might be overrating it about.




Naw, I went back and rewatched it when I was older... I couldn't find a bad episode.... and its overarching main plot as well as the smaller missions they were in tied together extremely well... 

The delivery was masterful


----------



## Badalight (Aug 28, 2013)

x5exotic said:


> >
> > Jojo part 1 sucked. There's absolutely nothing about it other than a good start. The over-the-top isn't done well, making it really cheesy rather than cool.
> 
> > Speedwagon is more annoying than Nina from Geass, Gai-Sensei and Ussop combined.



Part 1 of jojos is dated, but I don't think it sucks. Dio is absolutely fantastic in every way possible, one of the most devious villains of all time. I don't think there has ever been a villain that I hated as quickly as him. In the first chapter he is spitting on his father's grave, kicking dogs, and ruining johnathan's life. On the other hand, Johnathan is the most gentlemanly protagonist of all time. Araki took the good and evil concept to the extremes, and it was hillarious (and yes produced some cheesy story bits).

Also, the ending was pretty mindblowing at the time. Things like that arn't supposed to happen after only 50 chapters. It was relatively unheard of at the time and araki's editors were shocked at the decision (trying not to spoil anyone here).

Also, speedwagon's commentary > any other commentary.


----------



## Lee-Sensei (Aug 28, 2013)

Byrdman said:


> Naw, I went back and rewatched it when I was older... I couldn't find a bad episode.... and its overarching main plot as well as the smaller missions they were in tied together extremely well...
> 
> The delivery was masterful



Yeah. I've seen it several times too. The plot didn't tie in very well. At all imo. The connections between episodes were most of the time loose to non-existent. As for the smaller missions... it's episodic so it worked well enough. The music was great though.

In your opinion. As you can see here, some people disagree.

The Real Folks Blues 1 & 2 was two of the best episodes I've seen in an anime though.


----------



## Byrd (Aug 28, 2013)

Lee-Sensei said:


> Yeah. I've seen it several times too. The plot didn't tie in very well. At all imo. The connections between episodes were most of the time loose to non-existent. As for the smaller missions... it's episodic so it worked well enough. The music was great though.
> 
> In your opinion. As you can see here, some people disagree.
> 
> The Real Folks Blues 1 & 2 was one of the best episodes I've seen in an anime though.



Thats why I called the main plot overarching...

I can see why tho some would disagree... we each have different standards when it comes to rating


----------



## Lee-Sensei (Aug 28, 2013)

I don't know if this is controversial, but the only thing more pretentious than Evangelion are Evangelion fans.



Byrdman said:


> Thats why I called the main plot overarching...



I know you did. I'm just saying that the connection wasn't all that strong. Now Avatar: The Last Airbender... the overarching plot for that show was done really well, even though it was for the most part, episodic.



> I can see why tho some would disagree... *we each have different standards when it comes to rating*





I should point out that... I don't dislike CB. It's in my Top 25 Anime of all time and I've seen a lot of anime.


----------



## Kirito (Aug 28, 2013)

Lee-Sensei said:


> I don't know if this is controversial, but the only thing more pretentious than Evangelion are Evangelion fans.



youre not alone in that one



x5exotic said:


> Anyway, yeah, HxH's art is much better. Emotions are actually conveyed the way the writer intends them to be.




i can feel the emotions

see gon's face?

that is the paragon of happiness in art that all manga should emulate


----------



## Dellinger (Aug 28, 2013)

Kirito said:


> youre not alone in that one
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I always wanted to use that image when people bring up Togashi's art


----------



## Louis Cyphre (Aug 28, 2013)

Such a amazing art
God tier drawing



*Spoiler*: __


----------



## Dellinger (Aug 28, 2013)

Louis Cyphre said:


> Such a amazing art
> God tier drawing
> 
> 
> ...



That is fodder art brah,it can't be compared to the emotion in Gon's eyes


----------



## Louis Cyphre (Aug 28, 2013)

What eyes? You're seeing things that doesn't even exist 
True art don't need eyes to express emotions
Togashi reached that level
His art is beyond the understanding of mere mortals


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (Aug 28, 2013)

I think part 1 Jojo _might_ be better then part 2


----------



## Lee-Sensei (Aug 28, 2013)

Louis Cyphre said:


> Such a amazing art
> God tier drawing
> 
> 
> ...



What's that art from? I thought it was Berserk at first, but it looks Greco-Roman. I think I'll give it a chance just for the art.


----------



## Dellinger (Aug 28, 2013)

Lee-Sensei said:


> What's that art from? I thought it was Berserk at first, but it looks Greco-Roman. I think I'll give it a chance just for the art.



It is Berserk.


----------



## manidk (Aug 28, 2013)

Fluttershy said:


> I think part 1 Jojo _might_ be better then part 2



That's not controversial.

It's just wrong.


----------



## Louis Cyphre (Aug 28, 2013)

Lee-Sensei said:


> What's that art from? I thought it was Berserk at first, but it looks Greco-Roman. I think I'll give it a chance just for the art.


It is from Berserk



manidk said:


> It's just wrong.


Very, very wrong 
Almost a sin


----------



## x5exotic (Aug 28, 2013)

Yeah but if you try not to cowardly handpick the WSJ scans before being redrawn, that'd show ya 

Meanwhile in one piece, Ice Berg gets a beating from Law in Punk Hazard..we think, and Robin can transform into Hancock at any moment


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Aug 28, 2013)

Fluttershy said:


> I think part 1 Jojo _might_ be better then part 2



Yea not everything is subjective. This is one of those things.

Jojo part 2>Part 1.


----------



## Lee-Sensei (Aug 28, 2013)

White Hawk said:


> It is Berserk.





> It is from Berserk



Aw. Thanks. That's what it looks like. I need to catch up. And they need to animate more episodes without CGI.


----------



## Louis Cyphre (Aug 28, 2013)

x5exotic said:


> Meanwhile in one piece, Ice Berg gets a beating from Law in Punk Hazard..we think, and Robin can transform into Hancock at any moment



I didn't bring a scan from One Piece 
Miura can be lazy as hell
but at least he can draw good shit
Togashi should learn with him


----------



## x5exotic (Aug 28, 2013)

Yea but Mirua takes months to draw, Togashi plays DQ. 

Also for a monthly mangaka it still doesn't look as good as Togashi's good drawings (and seriously not half as good as the berserk I'm reading atm which is like 180-ish idk...)


----------



## Lee-Sensei (Aug 28, 2013)

x5exotic said:


> Yea but Mirua takes months to draw, Togashi plays DQ.
> 
> Also for a monthly mangaka it still doesn't look as good as Togashi's good drawings (and seriously not half as good as the berserk I'm reading atm which is like 180-ish idk...)



    that,


----------



## Byrd (Aug 28, 2013)

Freak Squeele >>> Berserk in Art


----------



## Reyes (Aug 28, 2013)

Berserk art shits on HxH art, heck it shits on most series

Chimera Ant arc is overrated imo

Yorkshin >>>> Chimera Ant

Heck, The Election Arc > Chimera Ant arc imo (mostly because that is where I started the series)


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Aug 28, 2013)

Election Arc better then Chimera Ant arc. 

This thread......my brain hurts.


----------



## OtherGalaxy (Aug 28, 2013)

x5exotic said:


> That was in the overrated character thread, noob.
> 
> 
> Not that I need justification; he's a ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".) and whoever creates such characters needs to be be punished accordingly.



cool stuff               .


----------



## Samavarti (Aug 28, 2013)

Zidane said:


> Berserk art shits on HxH art, heck it shits on most series
> 
> Chimera Ant arc is overrated imo
> 
> ...



I actually agree with this, Chimera Ant arc got a bit too much into powerlevels at times for my taste.


----------



## Quwrof Wrlccywrlir (Aug 28, 2013)

yes, ant arc was crap

and it pains me that this is considered "controversial" opinion when it should be common sense


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Aug 28, 2013)

Ant arc was crap. 

Please explain what was crap about it, and what makes the other HxH arcs not crap. Assuming of course you don't think the other arcs are crap as well.

The only major thing that Arc lacked that could of made it significantly better IMO. Is Hisoka. Ohhhh if only Hisoka was their, would of been so awesome.

Edit: The art would be another. If HxH had One punch man art not in style of course just in terms of quality, oh the epicness of some parts would be God tier.


----------



## Jagger (Aug 28, 2013)

ZenithXAbyss said:


> *Spoiler*: __


He fought against Urek Mazino in a 1vs1.


----------



## x5exotic (Aug 29, 2013)

Yeah, while the ant arc was perfect, the election arc somehow was better. Good writing can affect itself and produce more great stories I guess.


And berserk arc is no longer better than HxH's.


----------



## Dellinger (Aug 29, 2013)

Berserk is always better than HxH.

OP is most of the time better than HxH.


----------



## x5exotic (Aug 29, 2013)

"Berserk is always better than HxH."

Not really, it used to be, but not anymore.

"OP is most of the time better than HxH."
If by better you mean more chapters = more art therefore better, then yes. Other than that, no, as I've declared before, the flaws are too many. 

It is on par with Bleach though, which is a good thing for OP standards.


----------



## Dellinger (Aug 29, 2013)

Better world building,better story,better cast,better art,better atmosphere.

Yes,OP is better than HxH.


----------



## ZenithXAbyss (Aug 29, 2013)

Jagger said:


> He fought against Urek Mazino in a 1vs1.


Implying that he needs to fight utek to be badass.



Also, GI > CA


----------



## Byrd (Aug 29, 2013)

HxH art looks like dog piss on a saturday afternoon


----------



## x5exotic (Aug 29, 2013)

World building - just introduce some island and another after that. Nothing different from the rest of the bunch.
The world is limited, we know where it ends, we know the path an it's an extremely linear one.
Oda also failed to capture the dangers of the world of grandline, and once again during the new world (thanks to mediocre writing, asspulls, dumb additions like the world cup
Tv to watch marineford war in a sea supposedly so strange islands' sense of time is different).
Suddenly adding a power system to fix the inconsistencies and make more asspulls. Breaking already established rules for cool points. 

That's terrible world building.
Just because it looks pretty in a Wiki page doesn't make it good world building. 

Story- Op has no story, just the generic fight the bad guys repeated 20 times+
Every 100 chapters we get a bit of info that looks promising but we're not sure if it's gonna deliver.

Naruto's first arc has better writing than OP altogether.

Art- worst in WSJ, or equal to Bleach



Atmosphere - you mean the generic shonen atmosphere? Hmmm idk


----------



## Lee-Sensei (Aug 29, 2013)

OP's great. You're just a hater.


----------



## x5exotic (Aug 29, 2013)

Now that's a generic response.
Bringing up valid points to prove it's actually great... That's nonexistent rare.


----------



## Torpedo Titz (Aug 29, 2013)

X5exotic is a textbook example of the problems of free-speech.

Put this guy in a cage and show him at university lectures -- he'd be of more use.


----------



## x5exotic (Aug 29, 2013)

Thank you.

So you're all acting under peer pressure and/or blind obedience and/or obsession like any tween fan? Tell me something new.


----------



## ZenithXAbyss (Aug 29, 2013)

x5exotic said:


> Thank you.
> 
> So you're all acting under peer pressure and/or blind obedience and/or obsession like any tween fan? Tell me something new.


----------



## Lee-Sensei (Aug 29, 2013)

Not, buddy. It's because you are a hater and a wanker. I mean... you said that YT was better than Miura... are you kidding?:rofl


----------



## x5exotic (Aug 29, 2013)

YT?

Anyway i only said berserk's art deteriorated and the level of detail right now osn't good xonsidering the time he got WORKING on it. I'd be more lenient of he were just being lazy.
Also these pica above show some really bland/generic style, unlike older art which had its own vibe. Especiaally the final pic which looks like some marineford crap.
The dragon looks like a retarded dovakin or whatever  I liked stuff like the Count.. Reminds me of some character i saw when I was a kid

And what's that got to do with OP being mediocre? Are you trying to sway the majority to side with you to help with a DIFFERENT argument? Wow.
@zenith huehueheuhue


----------



## Basilikos (Aug 29, 2013)

People still can't tell that x5exotic is just trolling?

I doubt he actually believes even half what he posts.


----------



## Louis Cyphre (Aug 29, 2013)

X5exotic is 2edgy4me


----------



## Justice (Aug 29, 2013)

Are people really comparing Hunter x Hunter's art to Berserk?


----------



## x5exotic (Aug 29, 2013)

Louis u like that manga with weird geass edgy art 
Nothing is 4edgy2you


@phoenix no it's the other way around


----------



## Byrd (Aug 29, 2013)

x5exotic said:


> Now that's a generic response.
> Bringing up valid points to prove it's actually great... That's nonexistent rare.



Its sales versus time graph...

Also its various awards... etc


----------



## Louis Cyphre (Aug 29, 2013)

x5exotic said:


> Louis u like that manga with weird geass edgy art
> Nothing is 4edgy2you



Manga with geass art?
What are you even talking about?


----------



## Lee-Sensei (Aug 29, 2013)

YT = Yoshihiro Togashi



Phoenix Hawk said:


> Are people really comparing Hunter x Hunter's art to Berserk?



People are humans. x5exotic is a troll.


----------



## x5exotic (Aug 29, 2013)

@byrd yeah same as twilight, all the bieber derivatives and kardashians. I already classified OP with them. Now bring me something solid.
Something produced by a brain, but it's asking too much frol
op i guess.

Louis it's the manga you gave me a link of... Saint megumi or sth


----------



## Louis Cyphre (Aug 29, 2013)

x5exotic said:


> Louis it's the manga you gave me a link of... Saint megumi or sth


> Shin Megami Tensei
> Manga



Old Metatron is needed


----------



## Byrd (Aug 29, 2013)

x5exotic said:


> @byrd yeah same as twilight, all the bieber derivatives and kardashians. I already classified OP with them. Now bring me something solid.
> Something produced by a brain, but it's asking too much frol
> op i guess.
> 
> Louis it's the manga you gave me a link of... Saint megumi or sth



Which brings up my point... being "great" is subjective... everything is an opinion because People have different taste..

But because the majority of people tend to come to a conclusive agreement on OP base off its sales, awards, various reviews.. that would make OP "great"


----------



## x5exotic (Aug 29, 2013)

I asked you if it was manga or manhwa you never answered 


Byrd And some people also link this particular type of popilarity is given to particularly mediocre series that simply aim to please most of the folk.
Also there's this award that only Op and some kids manga ever won from wsj, so..some awards don't really sound good to begin with.

And overall enjoyment is subjective, but points of storytelling ans writing might not be.


----------



## OtherGalaxy (Aug 29, 2013)

Saint Megumi

SAINT MEGUMI


----------



## Louis Cyphre (Aug 29, 2013)

OtherGalaxy said:


> Saint Megumi
> 
> SAINT MEGUMI


----------



## Louis Cyphre (Aug 29, 2013)

x5exotic said:


> I asked you if it was manga or manhwa you never answered





Louis Cyphre said:


> x5exotic said:
> 
> 
> > What is that?
> ...





> Louis Cyphre is an enigmatic *non-player character* who often appears in the Shin Megami Tensei *games*.



You can't even read
Why am I not surprised?


----------



## x5exotic (Aug 29, 2013)

i dont recall it being a link 
Or maybe I just looked at the pix and it looked like manhwa

Must be a bad game... Never seen it on n4g


----------



## Louis Cyphre (Aug 29, 2013)

You must be blind then 



> Must be a *bad game*... Never seen it on n4g




heh
You're a entertaining troll


----------



## x5exotic (Aug 29, 2013)

Well it has anime style so mediocre production, and it's probably no GOW or LOU or final fantasy etc


----------



## Gain (Aug 29, 2013)

[YOUTUBE]tjccoMvkWWs[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## OtherGalaxy (Aug 29, 2013)

well

I can't say I expected that


----------



## Louis Cyphre (Aug 29, 2013)

x5exotic said:


> Well it *has anime style so mediocre production*, and it's probably no *GOW *or LOU or final fantasy etc


Trolls aren't decent anymore
How sad 
2edgy4me


----------



## Reyes (Aug 29, 2013)

x5exotic said:


> Must be a bad game... Never seen it on n4g



>SMT
>Bad game


And your reasoning on why it is a bad game is Sedaiv tier.


----------



## Athrum (Aug 31, 2013)

- I actually think Tenjou Tenge has a great story.
- For me Nana is one of the best manga's ever written (just wish the writer would wrap it up)
- Berserk is unnecessarily long
- I hate One Piece for the art alone, the story might be good but just looking at it makes me cringe
- Bleach is a same fight/powerup/fight/powerup boring manga
- IMO Manwha in general has great art but shitty stories


----------



## Lee-Sensei (Sep 2, 2013)

I like both of them, but YYH > HxH.


----------



## P-X 12 (Sep 2, 2013)

I was going to bitch about how this thread should've been closed long ago.

Until I saw x5exotic and his bullshit. 

My favorite line, though is here:



x5exotic said:


> Well it has anime style so mediocre production, and it's probably no GOW or LOU or *final fantasy* etc





> no GOW or LOU or *final fantasy*





> no final fantasy


----------



## P-X 12 (Sep 2, 2013)

Zidane said:


> >SMT
> >Bad game
> 
> 
> And your reasoning on why it is a bad game is Sedaiv tier.



Actually, that might be underselling it by a magnitude of at  least a dozen.


----------



## Jagger (Sep 2, 2013)

I'm surprised I haven't seen someone say even more stupid things like "FT>Berserk" or something like that.  This is what I expecting when I saw this thread.

Either people are not that stupid or they don't the existence of this thread.


----------



## P-X 12 (Sep 2, 2013)

Jagger said:


> I'm surprised I haven't seen someone say even more stupid things like "FT>Berserk" or something like that.



I'd advocate purging the entire section if that was ever uttered.


----------



## Tray (Sep 3, 2013)

FT >     Bersek


----------



## ZenithXAbyss (Sep 3, 2013)

Lelgow.


----------



## Jagger (Sep 3, 2013)

Urek said:


> FT >     Bersek


Well, I read *Berserk* and not Bersek, but if such manga is worse than FT. I shall start questioning your tastes.


----------



## Torpedo Titz (Sep 3, 2013)

Berserk probably deserves better than being reduced to a ''rite of passage'' manga.


----------



## Pyro (Sep 3, 2013)

I hated JJBA and couldn't get into it after trying multiple times.


----------



## Basilikos (Sep 3, 2013)

Pyro said:


> I hated JJBA and couldn't get into it after trying multiple times.


----------



## Pyro (Sep 3, 2013)

Do you recommend watching the anime instead? One of the biggest turn-offs for me was the art style.


----------



## Basilikos (Sep 3, 2013)

Pyro said:


> Do you recommend watching the anime instead? One of the biggest turn-offs for me was the art style.


You can watch the anime instead if you want, but it only covers the first two parts of the manga.

At least so far.  

A proper anime adaptation for part 3 will be released some time hopefully during the coming year.


----------



## P-X 12 (Sep 3, 2013)

Pyro said:


> Do you recommend watching the anime instead? One of the biggest turn-offs for me was the art style.



Probably. Most of the art in that is cleaner than the first two parts of the manga.


----------



## Badalight (Sep 3, 2013)

People be saying jjba has bad art.

Hirohiko Araki be having art displays in the louvre.

Does not compute.


Jokes aside, part 1 definitely is a product of its time. Very cheesy and that typical 80 styled art; however, very much like fotn does - it takes everything to the extreme. The antagonist is as evil as it gets, and I've never hated a villain so quickly as I did Dio (you'll be wanting to punch this guy in the face within the first chapter) and Johnathan is a person you want to root for no matter what, the most gentlemanly protagonist ever.

The anime is super fact paced and speeds through parts 1 and 2. In my opinion, the anime gave me an even greater appreciation for part 1. Part 2 was also done really well, but I don't think it quite hit the same level as the manga did.

For new jjba fans though - especially if you've already tried the manga, the anime is a great alternative.


----------



## Gin (Sep 3, 2013)

I hate the way JJBA characters are drawn.   Some subscribe to the "different is better" philosophy.

I subscribe to the "different can be better as long as said difference doesn't result in almost all the characters looking like transsexual bodybuilders" philosophy.

I know nothing about the manga beyond the art style, but have no desire to start it for this reason alone.


----------



## Badalight (Sep 3, 2013)

Frost said:


> I hate the way JJBA characters are drawn.   Some subscribe to the "different is better" philosophy.
> 
> I subscribe to the "different can be better as long as said difference doesn't result in almost all the characters looking like transsexual bodybuilders" philosophy.
> 
> I know nothing about the manga beyond the art style, but have no desire to start it for this reason alone.


----------



## OS (Sep 3, 2013)

He's right. Jotaro now looks so queer.


----------



## Pyro (Sep 3, 2013)

Badalight said:


> People be saying jjba has bad art.
> 
> Hirohiko Araki be having art displays in the louvre.
> 
> ...



Note: I didn't say it had bad art. Just that it wasn't my style. It reminded me of Beserk where everything was ultra-realistic and I prefer more of a "toony" vibe to mangas because it makes it easier to pick out the details.


----------



## Badalight (Sep 3, 2013)

I don't think it's similar to berserk's artstyle at all. It's incredibly unique and stylized, really nothing else out there like it to compare it to (imo). Of course you're not alone in disliking it; but I think the poses, awkward anatomy, and sense of style add to the quirkiness and "bizarreness" () of the series.


----------



## Lee-Sensei (Sep 3, 2013)

So I was reading HxH. It was a chapter from about a decade ago.

city of the dead sorcerer 

This is better than Berserk?


----------



## P-X 12 (Sep 3, 2013)

Honestly, I'd only say that the early stuff (pre Part 4) is all that weird when it came to character designs. After Akari re-invented his drawing style, I'd say he greatly improved in the art field (not to say his early work is bad). Mind you, it came at the cost of him not being able to draw his old characters as well (I mean, have you seen the way he draws the Pillar Men recently? It looks weird as hell), but still, as long as we get more designs like Jolyne, I'll be happy.


----------



## Dellinger (Sep 3, 2013)

Part 7 has amazing art.


----------



## Reyes (Jun 1, 2014)

I fucking hate Bleach now a days and I be hard press to really say I love something about this arc.

Bakuman > Death Note

OP biggest problem are pacing issues.

DB Part 1 > Part 2 despite Vegeta being the best character in Dragon Ball.

Despite the change to a monthly magazine, changes in art style, the Alma arc, and being a bit confusing at times (not to the degree others seem to have) I still love D.Gray-Man.


----------



## BlueDemon (Jun 1, 2014)

^ I'm still hoping D.Gray-Man will continue at some point - and get finished!

(And Goku's still better than Vegeta )


----------



## x5exotic (Jun 1, 2014)

Dressrosa is shit. Story first and foremost.


----------



## Dellinger (Jun 1, 2014)

So you came out of hiding finally.


----------



## Akira Kurusu (Jun 1, 2014)

Evangelion 3.0 is the best film of the Rebuild series.

Doflamingo >>>>> every existing OP villain to date.

Baccano is inferior to DRRR! especially in plot presentation.

FMA03 is fairly above average/good at best. Fuck Conqueror of Shamballa however. 

Ragyo > Lord Gnome


----------



## Kind of a big deal (Jun 1, 2014)

Here's a few controversial opinions:

I think Kishimoto's artwork is actually amazing and impressive and a lot better than most people think. And in fact a lot better than most manga out there considering it's a weekly serial. It's just that the style itself is so mainstream that people who don't know what  they're talking about can't look beyond that.

Dragonball is quite poorly drawn even though I love it dearly, in fact everything that Toriyama has drawn since then is uninspired and naive. Like dragonquest artwork.

I couldn't get into JJBA and OP because the artstyle was too distracting. JJBA was basically a parade of super flamboyant muscular fetish character designs, it's kinda gay. OP's artstyle is basically ADHD on paper.

Kingdom is super overrated. It's consistently quite decent but also far too predictable and formulaic.

Vagabond is pretentious and slow.


----------



## Samavarti (Jun 1, 2014)

Kind of a big deal said:


> Vagabond is *pretentious* and slow.


----------



## Reyes (Jun 1, 2014)

Kind of a big deal said:


> Here's a few controversial opinions:
> 
> I think Kishimoto's artwork is actually amazing and impressive and a lot better than most people think. And in fact a lot better than most manga out there considering it's a weekly serial. It's just that the style itself is so mainstream that people who don't know what  they're talking about can't look beyond that.
> 
> ...


----------



## Chad (Jun 1, 2014)

1. Doflamingo is just a revised version of Croc. Both their accomplishments are literally the exact same. 

2. Nisekoi is good. The series gets a lot of hate.



Asa-Kun said:


> Doflamingo >>>>> every existing OP villain to date.
> 
> Ragyo > Lord Gnome



​


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Jun 1, 2014)

^DD did not get his ass kicked by the new world and run away to troll fodder with his devil fruit.


----------



## Chad (Jun 1, 2014)

^Funny, Croc is bloodlusted for the worlds strongest man yet DD shits his pants when he hears Kaido's name.


----------



## Akira Kurusu (Jun 1, 2014)

Astral said:


> 1. Doflamingo is just a revised version of Croc. Both their accomplishments are literally the exact same.



This thread revolves around controversial opinions, not outright asinine farce that only users going full retard would pull out of their fragile rectum.

Really, what kind of fucking mindset where you stuck in while typing that?



> ^Funny, Croc is bloodlusted for the worlds strongest man



While getting his dumb ass handed by Jozu along the way, sure.


----------



## Mizura (Jun 1, 2014)

Whoooa, old thread, brings back memories. xD

I notice that I said I couldn't read through Vagabond before. I actually did manage to catch up since, and later on I really enjoyed it. The first parts of the series felt like Musashi hitting his head against a wall over and over, but the early painful parts eventually became the foundations that led to some pretty awesome character development later on. The art and fighting also became more smooth and intense later on.

I've also since finally managed to muddle through Death Note. But until the end, it bored me out of my mind.  The characters are incredibly flat and single-minded, and the series just shoves their reasoning down readers' throats instead of letting the readers come to the conclusions on their own, and even then the reasoning felt forced and half-assed most of the time. The characters somehow just zoom in on the correct solution, which seems a bit absurd considering that there is obviously a supernatural force at work, so they should have at least considered more possibilities (ex: that opponents were with-holding abilities for the sake of enjoyment or due to costs involved, but that said opponents could consider using them during an emergency. They just sort of assumed that they wouldn't do it just because). My opinion of it is that it was a forced and bland series that spent its time wanking its own characters. Just because it was original it doesn't mean it was well-written. >_>


----------



## OS (Jun 1, 2014)

Kind of a big deal said:


> Here's a few controversial opinions:
> 
> I think Kishimoto's artwork is actually amazing and impressive and a lot better than most people think. And in fact a lot better than most manga out there considering it's a weekly serial. It's just that the style itself is so mainstream that people who don't know what  they're talking about can't look beyond that.
> 
> ...



Dragonball imo is not poorly drawn but rather poorly designed.


----------



## OS (Jun 1, 2014)

Got negged. Bitches gonna bitch.


----------



## Magician (Jun 1, 2014)

Nanatsu no Taizai is an average shonen at best. Nothing really special about it.

Kingdom is consistently good but not great.

Also Stein;Gate is the most overrated anime I've ever seen in my life.


----------



## Chad (Jun 1, 2014)

Asa-Kun said:


> This thread revolves around controversial opinions, not outright asinine farce that only users going full retard would pull out of their fragile rectum.
> 
> Really, what kind of fucking mindset where you stuck in while typing that?
> 
> ...



You're right and I'm wrong. Doflamingo obviously has the best characterization out of all the OP villains. He is a perfect villain. My sincerest apologies.


----------



## Fujita (Jun 1, 2014)

Asa-Kun said:


> Ragyo > Lord Gnome


----------



## chibbselect (Jun 1, 2014)

Yay, a necro!

I like hxh and Attack on Titan's artstyles. Unnecessary justification for my entirely subjective comment: Togashi and Isayama's messy linework conveys movement and emotion (in terms of the overall image, not characters' expressions) in a way that neat styles can't.

why is there no hipster smily...


----------



## Rax (Jun 1, 2014)

I feel like most people like HxH a lot is because they gotta wait shit tons of time for it and they know Togashi doesn't give a darn about the fans so a chapter is a bit of effect on from that lazy dude.

It's like when Cartman owned that amusement park and got lots of business for a near dead place cause he denied everyone and laughed at the fact they wanted in.


----------



## Wolfgang Grimmer (Jun 1, 2014)

that didn't make sense

the analogy too


----------



## Rax (Jun 1, 2014)

It's like when you get to eat someone you enjoy only every once and a while.

The wait amplifies the joy of it.


----------



## Fujita (Jun 1, 2014)

chibbselect said:


> Togashi and Isayama's messy linework conveys movement and emotion (in terms of the overall image, not characters' expressions) in a way that neat styles can't.



I've always felt that way about Togashi's art, though YYH is honestly a much better example of this. Art had the same feel, but was a lot more fleshed out, and so it succeeded where HxH doesn't quite do enough, even for a sketchy art style. 



Red Hero said:


> I feel like most people like HxH a lot is because they gotta wait shit tons of time for it and they know Togashi doesn't give a darn about the fans so a chapter is a bit of effect on from that lazy dude.
> 
> It's like when Cartman owned that amusement park and got lots of business for a near dead place cause he denied everyone and laughed at the fact they wanted in.





Yes, people only slog through 100+ chapters because they know at the end that the hiatus is waiting for them, and they get to enjoy the exquisite agony of Togashi dangling the forbidden fruit in front of them

It's all just one big manga chapter striptease


----------



## Rax (Jun 1, 2014)

Fujita admits to her sick love of HxH


----------



## OS (Jun 2, 2014)

♦Young Master♦ said:


> *Nanatsu no Taizai is an average shonen at best. Nothing really special about it.*
> 
> Kingdom is consistently good but not great.
> 
> Also Stein;Gate is the most overrated anime I've ever seen in my life.



feel this way too. The hype seems undeserving a bit.


----------



## Dellinger (Jun 2, 2014)

Astral said:


> 1. Doflamingo is just a revised version of Croc. Both their accomplishments are literally the exact same.



Crocodile hasn't anything remotely close to Doflamingo.Their characters are nothing alike also.


----------



## Chad (Jun 2, 2014)

White Hawk said:


> Crocodile hasn't anything remotely close to Doflamingo.Their characters are nothing alike also.



Both Croc and Dofla took over a kingdom. Both Kingdoms (Alabasta and Dressrosa) were ruled by a member of the World Council (Cobra and Riku). Both Croc and Dofla are viewed as heroes to the country. Both Croc and Dofla have an assassin in their posse (Mr. *5* and Baby *5*). Also, Vivi and Violet used to be loyal to Croc/Dofla and end up going against their boss.

Surely they are all just coincidences. :ignoramus


----------



## Katou (Jun 2, 2014)

Blackbeard will have Whitebeard in the next 30 years


----------



## Bruce Wayne (Jun 2, 2014)

Astral said:


> Both Croc and Dofla took over a kingdom. Both Kingdoms (Alabasta and Dressrosa) were ruled by a member of the World Council (Cobra and Riku). Both Croc and Dofla are viewed as heroes to the country. Both Croc and Dofla have an assassin in their posse (Mr. *5* and Baby *5*). Also, Vivi and Violet used to be loyal to Croc/Dofla and end up going against their boss.
> 
> Surely they are all just coincidences. :ignoramus


Oda has lost his spark. :ignoramus 

Looks like I won't be picking it up again.


----------



## Agmaster (Jun 2, 2014)

Recca no Honou is one of the best shounens ever made and much better YYH than YYH.  Fully realized ending, better team dynamic, and Anzai's art style around halfway still is shitting on manga.  God of High School now has the best Son Goku.


----------



## SAFFF (Jun 2, 2014)

Red Hero said:


> *It's like when you get to eat someone you enjoy* only every once and a while.
> 
> The wait amplifies the joy of it.



I see what you mean.


----------



## Kirito (Jun 2, 2014)

Bruce Wayne said:


> Oda has lost his spark. :ignoramus
> 
> Looks like I won't be picking it up again.



of course

youre a naruto fan what do you know about quality 





controversial opinion: The Gamer will be better than Tower of God


----------



## Chad (Jun 2, 2014)

Agmaster said:


> Recca no Honou is one of the best shounens ever made and much better YYH than YYH.  Fully realized ending, better team dynamic, and Anzai's art style around halfway still is shitting on manga.  God of High School now has the best Son Goku.



Is Flame of Recca truly as good as you say it is? Because I've read a manga called M?R, which was written by the same author of Recca. I'll just say that M?R wasn't really a spectacular story, so I never really had any motivation to read Flame of Recca.


----------



## Katou (Jun 2, 2014)

" Naruto will never beat One Piece in Quality or Sales "


----------



## Lurko (Jun 2, 2014)

B Rabbit said:


> Toriko is no where near as good as One Piece or Dragon Ball, and people are fooling themselves believing it will be as popular as them.
> 
> One Piece will never be as good as it once was. I feel like Oda forgot how to write a good story.
> 
> ...



This is it bascially besides the bleach thing, Naruto became too action packed and one piece just got boring to me although it has moments that are amazing and Toriko I really only like for the fights :/


----------



## Dellinger (Jun 2, 2014)

Astral said:


> Both Croc and Dofla took over a kingdom. Both Kingdoms (Alabasta and Dressrosa) were ruled by a member of the World Council (Cobra and Riku). Both Croc and Dofla are viewed as heroes to the country. Both Croc and Dofla have an assassin in their posse (Mr. *5* and Baby *5*). Also, Vivi and Violet used to be loyal to Croc/Dofla and end up going against their boss.
> 
> Surely they are all just coincidences. :ignoramus



>Doflamingo took back a kingdom that belonged to him.

>Most kingdoms are ruled by a member of the reverie so this is a stupid point.

>Well,under Doflamingo,Dressrosa got richer and more powerful which wasn't the case with Crocodile and Alabasta which had civil wars and stuff.

>What's wrong with both of them having an Assassin?

>Fujitora himself mentioned this because it makes the shichibukai look bad,so it is something that Oda wanted to do.


----------



## SternRitter (Jun 2, 2014)

I love bleach, but most of Kubo's decisions are very vexing so I'll usually just try to laugh along with it these days. Dat pacing doe.

Kishi's earlier sketchy art style was much more impressive than what he does these days. 

OP I'm steadily losing interest in. This arc is fun, it's not great it's not bad either. Maybe just the recent pacing and Oda's health issues (yes, I know niether we nor Oda have control over that aspect) are dragging it into the mud. I really feel as if we will never see the ending or even anywhere near it unless Oda decides to blast through alot of unnecessary details.


----------



## Ramius (Jun 2, 2014)

Agmaster said:


> Recca no Honou is one of the best shounens ever made and much better YYH than YYH.



Wut? That's outright hipster. Recca never developed as much as Yusuke (nobody in Recca really did develop as much as the main YYH party) and the story fell apart after Recca vs Kurei. You probably read Recca recently and didn't do the same with YYH, but no. Granted, after ~3-5 volumes, Recca started and kept having a much better art than YYH, but felt underwhelming everywhere else. May be the small part with Rasen and Recca meeting his father was good too, but that's it.

It was, simply put, generic and ripped YYH off (Domon = Kuwabara, Tokiya = Kurama, Kaoru = that small guy from YYH who was using yoyos, Mokuren = older Toguro, etc)



Astral said:


> Is Flame of Recca truly as good as you say it is? Because I've read a manga called M?R, which was written by the same author of Recca. I'll just say that M?R wasn't really a spectacular story, so I never really had any motivation to read Flame of Recca.



MAR is worse than Recca, but Recca is like a ~6/10 may be. It has brilliant art for a weekly manga after the first couple-couple more volumes, but the story is purely rescue arc - tournament - rescue arc - power-ups with some characterization, backstories and the usual generic stuff. It has an average conclusion, an average beginning, an average story, the fights are ~above average and the characters are okay. Basically - it's way better than most of the trash out there, but it doesn't excel in anything but art (even then, just for a weekly manga). Though don't take my opinion as a fact, I might undersell it.

To give you an idea -


----------



## Bruce Wayne (Jun 2, 2014)

Kirito said:


> of course
> 
> youre a naruto fan what do you know about quality


I know enough to determine that Oda is shit now. :ignoramus


----------



## Agmaster (Jun 2, 2014)

Astral said:


> Is Flame of Recca truly as good as you say it is? Because I've read a manga called M?R, which was written by the same author of Recca. I'll just say that M?R wasn't really a spectacular story, so I never really had any motivation to read Flame of Recca.



Recca got Anzai popular, MAR was what he was told to do once he became popular.  I think it's loads better, and MAR's not even horrid.


----------



## x5exotic (Jun 2, 2014)

You know what else is a revised version of Alabasta?

Baratie Arc, Arlong arc, Skypiea arc, Enies Lobby, and pretty much 90% of the arcs.

There's no questioning Oda is just milking the lactose-intolerant shit out of the show now.


----------



## Samavarti (Jun 2, 2014)

x5exotic said:


> You know what else is a revised version of Alabasta?
> 
> *Baratie Arc, Arlong arc*, Skypiea arc, Enies Lobby, and pretty much 90% of the arcs.
> 
> There's no questioning Oda is just milking the lactose-intolerant shit out of the show now.


Oda was making revised versions of Alabasta arc, before he even made Alabasta arc, genius.


----------



## Ramius (Jun 2, 2014)

He's a troll, a very shitty one.


----------



## Jagger (Jun 2, 2014)

What have you done, people?

I thought this thread remained buried 700 fts. under the sea trapped within a cage made of a combination of Vibratium and Adamantium.


----------



## x5exotic (Jun 3, 2014)

Samavarti said:


> Oda was making revised versions of Alabasta arc, before he even made Alabasta arc, genius.




Are you trying to be funny? The point is they are all ripoffs of whichever came first, not that the first was well-written do i have no idea why he keeps doing it.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Jun 3, 2014)

Gon is a bitch just like his awful father ging.

I wish Silva and Killua were the focus of this story.


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## B Rabbit (Jun 3, 2014)

I think OP only problem is the pacing, he doesn't have an editor with balls.


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## B Rabbit (Jun 3, 2014)

Also HxH kicks Torikos ass.


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## x5exotic (Jun 3, 2014)

B Rabbit said:


> I think OP only problem is the pacing, he doesn't have an editor with balls.



Pacing can't save the arcs we're in now. It can just make the suffering go faster


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## Ramius (Jun 3, 2014)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Gon is a bitch just like his awful father ging.
> 
> I wish Silva and Killua were the focus of this story.



Lol pleb. Silva is way better as a side-character and Killua is a main character anyway. The focus is split between Killua and Gon.

Besides, there's been as many Gon-Ging moments as Silva-Killua ones. Actually, the latter had more focus, due to having one entire arc dedicated to Killua and his family.



B Rabbit said:


> Also HxH kicks Torikos ass.



That's controversial? If it is around here, damn - some people have some terrible-ass taste.


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## Dragon D. Luffy (Jun 3, 2014)

- Bleach is not that bad nowadays, the only big problem is the pacing.
- One Piece is still amazing, and again, only problem is pacing.
- Naruto sucks balls, though.
- Fairy Tail is horrible and worse than both Naruto and Bleach.
- The people who read HxH are masochistic. No point is reading something that's likely never going to be completed. I haven't read it so I don't know if it's good.
- Monster is boring as fuck. 20th Century Boys is much, much better.
- Elfen Lied is overrated and tries too hard to be dramatic.
- History's Strongest Disciple Kenichi is one of the best shounen of nowadays.
- The ending of Code Geass was one of the best manga/anime endings ever made. Even though the second season was not really good as a whole. But the last 6-7 episodes were perfect.
- The final arc of Katekyo Hitman Reborn was actually pretty good. The only thing that sucked were the final 5 or so chapters.

Come at me.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Jun 3, 2014)

B Rabbit said:


> Also HxH kicks Torikos ass.



Pretty sure Toriko can solo HxH 


> Lol pleb. Silva is way better as a side-character and Killua is a main character anyway. The focus is split between Killua and Gon.
> 
> Besides, there's been as many Gon-Ging moments as Silva-Killua ones. Actually, the latter had more focus, due to having one entire arc dedicated to Killua and his family.



Nah the more Silva the better. 

I don't want any Gon-ging moments i want them erased from the manga. Hopefully ging dies in the dark continent.


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## Orca (Jun 3, 2014)

Toriko's fights are great. Everything else is average.
Guts is the best MC(Not sure if this is controversial or not)
Yu Yu hakusho is not better than DBZ. Even in quality.


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## Agmaster (Jun 3, 2014)

Ramius said:


> Wut? That's outright hipster. Recca never developed as much as Yusuke (nobody in Recca really did develop as much as the main YYH party) and the story fell apart after Recca vs Kurei. You probably read Recca recently and didn't do the same with YYH, but no. ...
> 
> It was, simply put, generic and ripped YYH off (Domon = Kuwabara, Tokiya = Kurama, Kaoru = that small guy from YYH who was using yoyos, Mokuren = older Toguro, etc)


I disagree on the development side of characters.  Easy answer being Kurei and I'll give you Mikagami, but Domon grew more than Kuwabara.  Even if the romance tapered out if memory serves...  Granting the drawn out nature of the tower battles arc, I think he did a really good job in keeping the roster interesting beyond new techniques.  If anything, Mori is the weak link to the series.  He's too despicable.

Hardly ripoffs if tropes for group dynamics existed before the site.  Cool guy, bruiser, kid, girl, etc I'm lauding the nuance and way he characterized the characters.  I'm not saying he invented the wheel, just did a good refining of it.


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## Impact (Sep 18, 2015)

Bump lol.         .


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## God Movement (Sep 18, 2015)

lol      .


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## Morglay (Sep 18, 2015)

Dat necro.

Anyway, Drifters > Hellsing.


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## OS (Sep 18, 2015)

70 pages hot damn i know how to make threads.


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## Badalight (Sep 19, 2015)

Dragon D. Luffy said:


> - Bleach is not that bad nowadays, the only big problem is the pacing.
> - One Piece is still amazing, and again, only problem is pacing.
> - Naruto sucks balls, though.
> - Fairy Tail is horrible and worse than both Naruto and Bleach.
> ...



About HXH, you'd know why people read it if you read it. So fucking good. Also most people just stopped after the election arc. It has a natural conclusion that works well as the end of the story... except he continued on past that point. But if you want to read it, you can. Just stop there and you'll be completely satisfied.


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## ZenithXAbyss (Sep 24, 2015)

-Shokugeki is one of the best on going shounens atm.
Easily top 3. 
-NNT, BnHA, and Toriko are average at best.
-YYH > HxH
-slam dunk is still the best basketball mango. (Don't think this is that controversial though)
-jjba part 1 is so hard to get into, also art looks gay as fuck.


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## Punished Kiba (Oct 28, 2015)

- The only flaw with One Piece is it's pacing (...but technically that isn't even a flaw though )
- Haikyuu is the best sports manga/anime
- Naruto would've been infinitely times better if Kiba Inuzuka was the main.
- I think all the Characters in AOT are boring as fuck.
- I think the story concept of Toriko is unappealing and lame.


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## Tragic (Oct 28, 2015)

-Diamond no Ace is _easily_ the best sports manga/anime.
-People give Haikyuu waaay too much credit. Not even that good, it's just good enough. 
-OP is so unbelievably overrated it's mindblowing. Especially with the current arcs after the timeskip. 
-Early/Mid Bleach gets waaay to much shit. I don't think it was nearly as bad as people were saying it was.
- Fairy Tail was never good but had potential to be.


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## David (Oct 29, 2015)

The first Berserk anime adaptation was horrible.


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## OS (Oct 29, 2015)

Tragic said:


> -Diamond no Ace is _easily_ the best sports manga/anime.
> -People give Haikyuu waaay too much credit. Not even that good, it's just good enough.
> -OP is so unbelievably overrated it's mindblowing. Especially with the current arcs after the timeskip.
> -Early/Mid Bleach gets waaay to much shit. I don't think it was nearly as bad as people were saying it was.
> - Fairy Tail was never good but had potential to be.



haikyuu has more fujo bait


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