# Tsunade vs Azula



## Shizune (Jun 18, 2011)

*Location:* Streets of Konoha.

*Distance:* Thirty meters.

*Knowledge:* None.

*State of Mind:* In character, with full killing intent.

Go


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## HiroshiSenju (Jun 18, 2011)

Tsunade should have the speed advantage 
But Azula can spam from long range.

Does Azula get the comet? If so, she probably wins.


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## mali (Jun 18, 2011)

Tsunade isnt blitzing from 30 metres away, long range attacks plus the fact that Tsunade has shown no durability when it comes to fire attacks allow Azula to tae this match with or without Sozins Comet.


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## Kael Hyun (Jun 18, 2011)

twinrasengan said:


> Tsunade isnt blitzing from 30 metres away, long range attacks plus the fact that Tsunade has shown no durability when it comes to fire attacks allow Azula to tae this match with or without Sozins Comet.



How fast was Kakashi in part one(She was dealing with Kabuto pretty well (untill he used the Blood Card) and IIRC Kakashi described him as just as strong as him.)? As for durability she regrew her lung and dealt with the poison of its blade no problem.


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## Shizune (Jun 18, 2011)

twinrasengan said:


> Tsunade isnt blitzing from 30 metres away,



She blitzed Manda from the other side of a huge field.


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## MrChubz (Jun 18, 2011)

Tsunade punches her.


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## billy3 (Jun 18, 2011)

MrChubz said:


> Tsunade punches her.



... and leaves a stain.


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## kyla1718 (Jun 19, 2011)

The only way i see azula winning is staying far away and showering tsunade.... Although i doubt she could do it... Tsunade is just as fast, one hit azulas done. Azula just doesnt have the force to take tsunade fast. And she needs to end it quick if she wants to win. Tsunades tanking and healing give her a huge advantage.


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## Alita (Jun 19, 2011)

Tsunade was calced to move around the speed of sound back during part 1 while holding a 100+ ton pocket knife and she should be even faster during shippuden. Azula is peak human speed at best without her fire to boost her speed.

According to OBD info about speed a peak human can react to sound attacks from 34 meters away. Tsunade is 30 meters away so she can blitz this. At best azula might get to see a second go by before her head is sent flying off her shoulders.


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## mali (Jun 19, 2011)

No, Tsunade's travel speed hasnt been shown to be anywhere near supersonic hbut her combat speed probably is.
Also you cant scale off her blitzing Manda seeing as Manda has next nothing speed feats.

Azula spams fire techs to keep Tsunade out of range and then eventually nails her with a fire tech.


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## Shizune (Jun 19, 2011)

twinrasengan said:


> No, Tsunade's travel speed hasnt been shown to be anywhere near supersonic hbut her combat speed probably is.
> Also you cant scale off her blitzing Manda seeing as Manda has next nothing speed feats.
> 
> Azula spams fire techs to keep Tsunade out of range and then eventually nails her with a fire tech.



Undermining Manda's speed is the crutch of your argument. Manda has several speed feats and was probably the second quickest fighter on the field during the Sannin's showdown, trumped only by Tsunade.


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## mali (Jun 19, 2011)

Such as........
Also probably none of them are even quantifiable.


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## Shizune (Jun 19, 2011)

twinrasengan said:


> Such as........



I'm going to ask how serious you are before going to the trouble of finding scans. Do you really not remember him overwhelming Katsuyu, Gamabunta and Jiraiya with his speed? He began the showdown by blitzing Katsuyu, shed his skin and burrowed underground instantaneously upon being faced with Jiraiya and Gamabunta's powerful katon ninjutsu, and then blitzed Gamabunta. If Tsunade hadn't intercepted him, Gamabunta would have been majorly wounded, likely even killed (Jiraiya most likely would've been able to escape).



twinrasengan said:


> Also probably none of them are even quantifiable.



While not necessarily being subject to pinpoint calculations, we can understand that Manda was intended to be portrayed as extremely quick.


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## Eldritch Sukima (Jun 19, 2011)

All of Azula's attacks are either too small or too slow. She's not hitting Tsunade with any of them, and even if they somehow became a problem Tsunade could just bring out Katsuyu.


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## mali (Jun 19, 2011)

Alkonis:
Blitzing a slug and Gamabunta does not suddenly put you at supersonic speeds come to think of it he didnt even dissapear from the sight of everyone.

You cant just randomly assert a speed to a character just because he or she blitzes characters who dont have a definitive speed themselves, If she were to blitz someone like Naruto then I would agree with you.

Also true, the AoE of her attacks might be to smal.........


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## KeitaKuhn (Jun 19, 2011)

twinrasengan said:


> Alkonis:
> Blitzing a slug and Gamabunta does not suddenly put you at supersonic speeds come to think of it he didnt even dissapear from the sight of everyone.
> 
> You cant just randomly assert a speed to a character just because he or she blitzes characters who dont have a definitive speed themselves, If she were to blitz someone like Naruto then I would agree with you.
> ...



I think he is assuming that by size alone, Manda is at least approaching mach 1. A reasonable assumption, but Manda would need to be a lot bigger.


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## Eldritch Sukima (Jun 19, 2011)

Manda was blitzing fairly high tier characters. Powerscaling would suggest that he's at least supersonic. I don't think it matters how fast he moves, though, since Tsunade sucker punched (stabbed) him while he wasn't moving.


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## Shizune (Jun 19, 2011)

twinrasengan said:


> Alkonis:
> Blitzing a slug and Gamabunta does not suddenly put you at supersonic speeds



Firstly, don't attempt to undermine the entirety of Katsuyu by simply waving her away as "a slug." She is a mystical and powerful creature. Secondly, this is the same Gamabunta who went toe-to-toe with the fully released One-Tailed Shukaku.

And to clarify, I don't mean to suggest that Tsunade is supersonic. I'm relatively clueless when it comes to speed calculations and what it takes to approach the speed of sound. However, I am acknowledging that she can move _very_ quickly, and was, at one point, the quickest fighter on the Sannin battlefield.



twinrasengan said:


> come to think of it he didnt even dissapear from the sight of everyone.



He didn't? Every time he moved, his opponents were almost helpless. The only person that was able to react to and counter attack his movements was Tsunade. He moves, Katsuyu can do nothing. He moves, Gamabunta and Jiraiya are oblivious until he's already evaded their attack and has his fangs at Gamabunta's throat. 



Eldritch Sukima said:


> I don't think it matters how fast he moves, though, since Tsunade sucker punched (stabbed) him while he wasn't moving.



Wasn't moving? He popped up, went for Gamabunta's throat, and Tsunade intercepted him. That gives her, what, one, maybe two, seconds, to bring that sword from wherever it was and into Manda's mouth. He may not have been traveling a distance, but Manda was still in active motion and moving very quickly (obviously, if Gamabunta, who matched the One-Tailed Shukaku, couldn't defend himself).


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## Eldritch Sukima (Jun 19, 2011)

Alkonis said:


> Wasn't moving? He popped up, went for Gamabunta's throat, and Tsunade intercepted him. That gives her, what, one, maybe two, seconds, to bring that sword from wherever it was and into Manda's mouth. He may not have been traveling a distance, but Manda was still in active motion and moving very quickly (obviously, if Gamabunta, who matched the One-Tailed Shukaku, couldn't defend himself).



Manda seems to pause right before he actually strikes. He's usually drawn as nothing but a blur when he's in motion, but he's standing completely still in comparison when he assumes a striking position. This can be seen when he constricts Katsuyu and when he attacks Gamabunta as well.


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## Shizune (Jun 19, 2011)

Eldritch Sukima said:


> Manda seems to pause right before he actually strikes.



Really? Manda, the blood thirsty monstrosity, revered by even Orochimaru, hesitates before the kill?

Those frames of Manda before he goes for the strike are to build anticipation and to be more clear on what's happening. If Kishimoto didn't draw those panels of Manda just before he struck, it would be more difficult to follow what was happening, and it wouldn't be as exciting to find out if he succeeds in his attack.


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## Eldritch Sukima (Jun 19, 2011)

Alkonis said:


> Really? Manda, the blood thirsty monstrosity, revered by even Orochimaru, hesitates before the kill?
> 
> Those frames of Manda before he goes for the strike are to build anticipation and to be more clear on what's happening. If Kishimoto didn't draw those panels of Manda just before he struck, it would be more difficult to follow what was happening, and it wouldn't be as exciting to find out if he succeeds in his attack.



Who said it's hesitation? I always wrote it off as general snake behavior, the way some actual snakes assume a position before striking at crazy speeds.

Link removed

It's not just for atmosphere, either. Gamabunta has time to intercept this strike despite being much slower than Manda and nowhere in sight when he's poised to chow down.

Link removed

And look at the expression on Tsunade's face here. She certainly doesn't look like someone who doesn't find Manda's speed troubling.


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## Shizune (Jun 19, 2011)

Eldritch Sukima said:


> Who said it's hesitation? I always wrote it off as general snake behavior, the way some actual snakes assume a position before striking at crazy speeds.



Ah. I see what you mean, but I still don't recognize a notable gap in time between him binding his target and him going for the kill.



Eldritch Sukima said:


> It's not just for atmosphere, either. Gamabunta has time to intercept this strike despite being much slower than Manda and nowhere in sight when he's poised to chow down.



Nowhere in sight? The three were standing almost side by side when Manda attacked Katsuyu.



Eldritch Sukima said:


> And look at the expression on Tsunade's face here. She certainly doesn't look like someone who doesn't find Manda's speed troubling.



Of course she finds it troubling; that doesn't change the fact that she can still deal with it without too much difficulty.


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## Kind of a big deal (Jun 19, 2011)

Can't Tsunade just regen herself with her forehead seal and walk straight through the blasts coming from Azula?

Besides, even though Tsunade is a weak-ass character, I'm going to assume she knows some basic academy jutsu, since she IS still a kage. She could just use some kind of henge and substitution technique to catch her opponent off-guard.


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## Shizune (Jun 19, 2011)

Kind of a big deal said:


> Can't Tsunade just regen herself with her forehead seal and walk straight through the blasts coming from Azula?



Completely out of character for her to do so.


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## Eldritch Sukima (Jun 19, 2011)

Alkonis said:


> Ah. I see what you mean, but I still don't recognize a notable gap in time between him binding his target and him going for the kill.



Well, let's see how far he moved as he was being attacked, then. It's another indication that he pauses before striking and was attacked in those moments.



> Nowhere in sight? The three were standing almost side by side when Manda attacked Katsuyu.
> 
> Of course she finds it troubling; that doesn't change the fact that she can still deal with it without too much difficulty.



Link removed

You can see how close he is to biting off Katsuyu's face in the top panel. Gamabunta is nearby, but given the time frame he'd have to work with if Manda was in mid-attack it might as well be way too far away. Now look at the bottom right panel. His head looks to be in the exact same position, even though Gamabunta had enough time to get a sword into his mouth. If Manda was attacking, Gamabunta's swing would have to have been _much_ faster than Manda's strike to intercept it before Manda could cover any noticeable distance.

I think we can both agree that Gamabunta being able to strike much faster than Manda is rather unlikely. The same problem exists with Tsunade's figurative sucker punch.

Link removed

Manda is already next to Gamabunta when he bursts out of the ground and Tsunade gets into position with the sword. Presumably he was going to lunge forward and start eating Gamabunta given how wide he opened his mouth. If he was striking at high speed this would have been over in the blink of an eye, but it doesn't quite work out that way.

Link removed

Tsunade drove the sword straight down, so she likely knocked Manda's head straight down as well. If he was in mid-strike before she even had the knife aimed at him, wouldn't his jaws have been around Gamabunta already? If nothing else, he should have been closer than he started, in which case the stab would have gone into Gamabunta's back instead of the ground. Instead we can see that his head falls short of Gamabunta's body, indicating that he didn't move much at all in the time it took Tsunade to appear (quite far) above him, aim the knife, and drive it into his jaws.

This would still be possible if he was moving, but it would require Tsunade's strike to be massively faster than Manda's own. Needless to say, that seems unlikely when Manda was portrayed as a speed demon throughout the fight, except for these two moments.


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## Shizune (Jun 19, 2011)

Eldritch Sukima said:


> Link removed
> 
> You can see how close he is to biting off Katsuyu's face in the top panel. Gamabunta is nearby, but given the time frame he'd have to work with if Manda was in mid-attack it might as well be way too far away.



Not really. As I said, the three were standing side-by-side, in a triangle, when Manda constricted Katsuyu. Gamabunta most likely didn't need to move more than a step to be in range to stop Manda.



Eldritch Sukima said:


> Now look at the bottom right panel. His head looks to be in the exact same position, even though Gamabunta had enough time to get a sword into his mouth. If Manda was attacking, Gamabunta's swing would have to have been _much_ faster than Manda's strike to intercept it before Manda could cover any noticeable distance.



This is the way I see it:

- Manda moves to constrict Katsuyu.
- As he moves, Gamabunta also moves to help Katsuyu counter him.
- Manda opens his mouth.
- Gamabunta puts his sword there.

Manda has shown a terribly redundant and predictable attack pattern. Having been peers in war for decades, Gamabunta should have had little trouble recognizing what Manda would be doing and sttoping it.

Link removed



Eldritch Sukima said:


> Presumably he was going to lunge forward and start eating Gamabunta given how wide he opened his mouth. If he was striking at high speed this would have been over in the blink of an eye, but it doesn't quite work out that way.



Except it _was_ over in the blink of an eye, as shown by Gamabunta and Jiraiya being completely overwhelmed.



Eldritch Sukima said:


> If he was in mid-strike before she even had the knife aimed at him, wouldn't his jaws have been around Gamabunta already?



No, because Tsunade intercepted him before he got his mouth around Gamabunta. Now you're basically undermining the entirety of what Tsunade did. Yes, she blitzed him before the position of his mouth became problematic. His strike was stopped as quickly as it began. 



Eldritch Sukima said:


> This would still be possible if he was moving, but it would require Tsunade's strike to be massively faster than Manda's own. Needless to say, that seems unlikely when Manda was portrayed as a speed demon throughout the fight, except for these two moments.



Tsunade's strike _was_ massively faster than Manda's own - that's all there is to it. Intercepting his from across the battlefield, while Gamabunta and Jiraiya were doing nothing about it, is proof of this.


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## Eldritch Sukima (Jun 19, 2011)

Alkonis said:


> Not really. As I said, the three were standing side-by-side, in a triangle, when Manda constricted Katsuyu. Gamabunta most likely didn't need to move more than a step to be in range to stop Manda.



Getting in range isn't the problem. Doing so faster than Manda can complete his attack, if you assume he was in the middle of it, is the problem. 



> This is the way I see it:
> 
> - Manda moves to constrict Katsuyu.
> - As he moves, Gamabunta also moves to help Katsuyu counter him.
> ...



It really makes no difference how predictable the attack was. Speed is all it comes down to given the situation. Manda was closer to Katsuyu and faster than Gamabunta, yet could hardly move his head forward at all before Gamabunta's sword intercepted him? Something doesn't add up.

It's unlikely Gamabunta and Jiraiya knew Manda as well you suggest, either. They both show surprise at his shedding ability, and fall for his tail feint. If they knew him well enough to anticipate his moves, they certainly didn't show it.



> Except it _was_ over in the blink of an eye, as shown by Gamabunta and Jiraiya being completely overwhelmed.



Tsunade and Katsuyu were equally overwhelmed by Manda's first attack. Tsunade did nothing at all to defend against it, but if she's as fast as you suggest she should have been more than capable of hitting him before Katsuyu was even immobilized.



> No, because Tsunade intercepted him before he got his mouth around Gamabunta. Now you're basically undermining the entirety of what Tsunade did. Yes, she blitzed him before the position of his mouth became problematic. His strike was stopped as quickly as it began.



What Tsunade did is open to interpretation as there is no proof of what Manda was doing when it happened. We have the before and the after, but nothing to support Manda moving at full speed when he's drawn completely motionless.



> Tsunade's strike _was_ massively faster than Manda's own - that's all there is to it. Intercepting his from across the battlefield, while Gamabunta and Jiraiya were doing nothing about it, is proof of this.



Then is Gamabunta stepping in to save her and Katsuyu proof that he's massively faster than them, or massively faster than Manda? We have the same event in reverse earlier in the fight. Given how poorly the four of them fared when Manda was attacking them head on, Tsunade's nearly exhausted state, and the fact that her speed is never stated to be anything special, I have to say my interpretation seems more likely.


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## mali (Jun 19, 2011)

Tsunade powerscaling should easily be supersonic, but even if she really was she isnt blitzing a peak human from 30 metres away.


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## Lucifeller (Jun 19, 2011)

I'd like to point out, regarding an earlier post, that Manda was blitzing a half-paralyzed, severely weakened Jiraiya, who was, at that point, barely above peak human speed at best due to being, y'know, under the effect of a paralytic drug Tsunade herself fed him.

Blitzing Jiraiya at that point in no way puts anyone anywhere near supersonic speed. Captain freaking America could've blitzed Jiraiya at that point, and he's hardly supersonic.


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## hammer (Jun 19, 2011)

chouldnt she just punch the ground


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## mali (Jun 19, 2011)

^And what affect would that have on Azula?


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## zenieth (Jun 19, 2011)

Well for one completely fuck her balance over.

Really there is no argument here. For as terrible a character Tsunade is, she turns Azula into a stain on the time chamber.


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## Kael Hyun (Jun 19, 2011)

zenieth said:


> Well for one completely fuck her balance over.
> 
> Really there is no argument here. For as terrible a character Tsunade is, she turns Azula into a stain on the streets of Konoha.



Fixed


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## mali (Jun 19, 2011)

So were gonna skip the fact that Tsunade has to come within close range to land a hit on Azula, Azula makes Ninja barbecque.


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## RikodouGai (Jun 19, 2011)

Tsunade summons Katsuya on her.


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## mali (Jun 19, 2011)

Yh, because katsu can land a hit on a character tsunade cant.


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## LazyWaka (Jun 19, 2011)

twinrasengan said:


> Tsunade powerscaling should easily be supersonic, but even if she really was she isnt blitzing a peak human from 30 metres away.



Actually...

Peak human reaction speed = .1s

Supersonic speed = 343m/s

distance 30m.

At supersonic speeds, tsunade can get to her before she can react. Assuming her reaction speed is only peak human mind you.


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## HiroshiSenju (Jun 19, 2011)

HachibiWaka said:


> Actually...
> 
> Peak human reaction speed = .1s
> 
> ...



Azula probably has supersonic reactions (via powerscaling). While I don't really have any proof, I wouldn't say it's too far-fetched for the avatar-verse.


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## LazyWaka (Jun 19, 2011)

HiroshiSenju said:


> Azula probably has supersonic reactions (via powerscaling). While I don't really have any proof, I wouldn't say it's too far-fetched for the avatar-verse.



Considering that there are no supersonic feats in the verse thats a pretty steep claim.


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## Wan (Jun 20, 2011)

The best you could powerscale Azula's reactions to be is possibly faster than the eye.


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## LazyWaka (Jun 20, 2011)

Mordin Solus said:


> The best you could powerscale Azula's reactions to be is possibly faster than the eye.



Pretty much this. Although, that might be enough to stop an initial blitz at the very least.


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## mali (Jun 20, 2011)

Tsunade hasnt actually shown supersonic travel speed, but her combat speed is probably supersonic.


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## Nikushimi (Jun 20, 2011)

Tsunade is most likely subsonic.

But still, lolAvatar. Speedblitz or Katsuyu takes this.

Also, I'm pretty sure this thread was meant to troll LegendaryBeauty. If not, then still: lol.


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## Archangel Michael (Jun 20, 2011)

This thread is still on


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## Wan (Jun 20, 2011)

Nikushimi said:


> Tsunade is most likely subsonic.
> 
> But still, lolAvatar. Speedblitz or Katsuyu takes this.
> 
> Also, I'm pretty sure this thread was meant to troll LegendaryBeauty. If not, then still: lol.



If she's subsonic than there most likely won't be a speedblitz.


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## Soledad Eterna (Jun 20, 2011)

Azula could fight equally with Zuko who could react to arrows and electricity attacks. From a distance Tsunade isn't blitzing her, however Tsunade can regenerate damage not to mention that Azula's fire is not strong enough to defeat Tsunade. If this was with the comet it would be another story though.


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## Shizune (Jun 21, 2011)

Soledad Eterna said:


> Azula could fight equally with Zuko who could react to arrows and electricity attacks.



Just pointing out that those electric techniques were not any quicker than regular fire techniques.


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## mali (Jun 21, 2011)

Wait, when has Tsunade regend from anything like fire??


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## Shizune (Jun 21, 2011)

twinrasengan said:


> Wait, when has Tsunade regend from anything like fire??



Coming back from three lethal sword wounds and trauma should speak for itself.


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## billy3 (Jun 21, 2011)

twinrasengan said:


> Wait, when has Tsunade regend from anything like fire??





Alkonis said:


> Coming back from three lethal sword wounds and trauma should speak for itself.



Yes, the type of damage really shouldn't be an issue for Tsunade.  The more important thing is scale - she can probably recover from locallized burns as easily as from locallized weapon trauma, but she's not going to regrown her entire left side, regardless of whether it's cleaved or burned off.

For the match:  Tsunadae takes it - she's more durable, versatile and has an edge in speed (even if she's subsonic).


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## mali (Jun 21, 2011)

Alkonis said:


> Coming back from three lethal sword wounds and trauma should speak for itself.



Piercing damage/=burning......no

She has no feats against burning attacks and is also not hinted to be able to regen from them so no.


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## LegendaryBeauty (Jun 21, 2011)

Am I really seeing arguments of Azula's attacks being either small or slow?



Much as I love Tsunade, Azula's a quick, evasive character that was casually practicing parkour when Aang, Toph, and Sokka were chasing her and weren't able to touch her (with some assistance from the Dai Li, of course). People argue all the time that Kakashi's Raikagebunshin would beat Tsunade, but when another person who bends her own lightning is the opponent, no one thinks to mention it?

Katsuyu's incredibly durable against blunt force attacks, and I'd imagine she'd split up against fire-blasts like she would againt Katons. But, she's still composed mostly of liquid. Lightning, especially one that was able to burst through Toph's large barrier on the fly like nothing, is going to mess Katsuyu up something fierce.

Azula takes this. If she gets hit by Tsunade, then it's over for her, but I think Azula's far more calculating and resourceful than Tsunade.


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## hammer (Jun 21, 2011)

wtf you of all people are for azula I never thought I would see the day.


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## Skywalker (Jun 21, 2011)

Azula is a badass, she rapes the fuck out of Tsunade.


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## hammer (Jun 21, 2011)

I would like to point out tyo beauty its not real lgihtning nothign suggests it moves as fast and that she reqiures her stance and tsundes known for cuaseing small tremers


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## LegendaryBeauty (Jun 21, 2011)

hammer said:


> I would like to point out tyo beauty its not real lgihtning nothign suggests it moves as fast and that she reqiures her stance and tsundes known for cuaseing small tremers



It may as well be real-lightning. Iroh showed that he could bend it just as well as he could Azula's, and with the same devastating effects. Point is that the difference between the generation of one's own lightning and natural lightning would be negligible.

She's shown to generate it on the fly, and in multiple ways. Once was through a certain stance and hand gestures, i.e. the first time she, or anyone else, has bent lightning. Another time is during "The Chase" when she simply waves each arm around twice before bringing it back to herself and shooting the lightning, obliterating Toph's earth-bent defense. And the third was the one in my sig. It doesn't take that long, at the very least the second one doesn't, and it could very well be the game-ending blow.


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## hammer (Jun 21, 2011)

assuming it has the same phsical effects 100% which I doubt theres no reason to beleive it moves as fast as the real thing and I must reteraite that tsunde can very well cause a small tremor with her fist which should  fuck her balence


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## LegendaryBeauty (Jun 21, 2011)

Aang earthbent the rock Azula was resting on when she was leaning against it high above the ground. She was surprised, but jumped down and kept her two opponents at bay.

I don't think ruining her balance is much of a viable option.


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## hammer (Jun 21, 2011)

theres a difference between raising someone up onto a paltform and making the battlefiled move


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## LegendaryBeauty (Jun 21, 2011)

She was on the platform and Aang made it rumble and it almost crumbled, ruining her balance. She simply adapted.


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## ensoriki (Jun 21, 2011)

It wouldn't have to be as fast as real lightning just going by the size of it, it obviously isn't real lightning but just general electricity. If it hits you, your getting a shock through your nervous system and we saw through Aang that this electricity is fatal.

I don't recall any Manga feats for having an actual electric current go through your body as seemingly Raiton is some wierd bullshit that doesn't shock you at all but easily penetrates obstructions.


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## zenieth (Jun 21, 2011)




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## LegendaryBeauty (Jun 21, 2011)

Azula's lightning killed the most powerful character as he ascended into his most powerful state.

She's a God-slayer. :33 Tsunade stands a chance, but Azula's far more likely to outwit/outmanuever her.


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## hammer (Jun 21, 2011)

actually im surprised how many people think tsunde will win its a rare case here


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## Skywalker (Jun 21, 2011)

LegendaryBeauty said:


> Azula's lightning killed the most powerful character as he ascended into his most powerful state.
> 
> She's a God-slayer. :33 Tsunade stands a chance, but Azula's far more likely to outwit/outmanuever her.


She hit him from behind.


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## LegendaryBeauty (Jun 21, 2011)

Skywalker said:


> She hit him from behind.



Because, instead of standing there like Zuko and the Dai Li, she's a genre-savvy villain.  She is capable of thinking the obvious things the watchers are thinking, and enacting them.

Azula's awesome.


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## Skywalker (Jun 21, 2011)

LegendaryBeauty said:


> Because, instead of standing there like Zuko and the Dai Li, she's a genre-savvy villain.  She is capable of thinking the obvious things the watchers are thinking, and enacting them.
> 
> Azula's awesome.


I'm not saying she isn't, but if she fought him in this Avatar state head on, she'd get stomped.


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## LegendaryBeauty (Jun 21, 2011)

Skywalker said:


> I'm not saying she isn't, but if she fought him in this Avatar state head on, she'd get stomped.



Doesn't change the fact she slayed the Avatar in God-mode.  We'll just leave this off there....


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## Skywalker (Jun 21, 2011)

LegendaryBeauty said:


> Doesn't change the fact she slayed the Avatar in God-mode.  We'll just leave this off there....


 Fine, fine. **


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## Shizune (Jun 21, 2011)

LB I'm not clear on something. Are you suggesting that Azula's electricity moves anywhere near as fast as actual lightning?


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## LegendaryBeauty (Jun 21, 2011)

I'm suggesting it moves as fast as it needs to to get the job done.


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## Shizune (Jun 21, 2011)

LegendaryBeauty said:


> I'm suggesting it moves as fast as it needs to to get the job done.



So it moves fast enough to tag someone who can intercept Manda mid-attack?

I don't think anyone in Avatar-verse was consistently superhuman outside of avatar state anyways, and Azula's lightning wasn't particularly faster than regular fire bending.


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## Gunners (Jun 21, 2011)

ensoriki said:


> It wouldn't have to be as fast as real lightning just going by the size of it, it obviously isn't real lightning but just general electricity. If it hits you, your getting a shock through your nervous system and we saw through Aang that this electricity is fatal.
> 
> I don't recall any Manga feats for having an actual electric current go through your body as seemingly Raiton is some wierd bullshit that doesn't shock you at all but easily penetrates obstructions.



Link removed

The technique Tsunade used is also based on running a current through the oppositions body ( to fuck with their nervous system). 

Anyway she would beat Azula with ease.


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## LegendaryBeauty (Jun 21, 2011)

Alkonis said:


> So it moves fast enough to tag someone who can intercept Manda mid-attack?
> 
> I don't think anyone in Avatar-verse was consistently superhuman outside of avatar state anyways, and Azula's lightning wasn't particularly faster than regular fire bending.



Azula's lightning shot across a plain and obliterated Toph's earthbent wall, far before her flames could. It's significantly faster than fire, I'd imagine. Even if her lightning is a fraction the speed of legitimate lightning, that's still incredibly fast.


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## Eldritch Sukima (Jun 21, 2011)

Tsunade is from a universe where weak children can cross rooms too fast for normal humans register. What's fast by Avatar standards is not guaranteed to be fast by hers.


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## thunderbear (Jun 22, 2011)

Are you people serious?!  Azula's lightning moves at the exact same speed as fire bending, maybe a LITTLE faster, but its DEFINATELY not lightning speed.  When we have Iroh demonstrating how to turn back a lightning fire-bent attack by doing some motion of the fingers, then we know that peak humans are easily able to react to it.  Tsunade is far, far above peak human.  Also, Azula's fire-based attacks will "not" hit Tsunade.  If Iroh, and old man, can react to a lightning-bending attack by doing a complicated movement of his fingers before the attack hits him, then that attack is nowhere near as fast as lightning.  

And please.  Tsunade, a kage-level ninja would be one-shotted by burning attacks OR lightning based attacks?  No, you can just stop the Azula wanking now.  In a manga where huge fire-balls and lightning attacks are common place amoung low level ninja (genin-chunin), do you really think TSUNADE, THE HOKAGE, would be outdone by some peak human whose attacks can be reacted to by other peak humans (if even that strong?)

I take back what I said about the Azula wanking, yall can just stop the Tsunade hatred.  Its just sickening.  Also, Azula was only able to kill Avatar Aang because: A) Avatar Aang is still Aang, a human being, but with amplified powers- a glass cannon if you will; B) Avatar Aang was completely stationary and not able to respond to any attacks.


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## Endless Mike (Jun 22, 2011)

If we want to determine the speed of lightning in Avatar, couldn't we just scale the distance it moves and then calculate it by going through the clip frame - by - frame?


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## Alita (Jun 22, 2011)

I still fail to see why Tsunade doesn't blitz this.


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## Endless Mike (Jun 22, 2011)

Alita54 said:


> I still fail



Edited for accuracy


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## Toriko (Jun 22, 2011)

Endless Mike said:


> If we want to determine the speed of lightning in Avatar, couldn't we just scale the distance it moves and then calculate it by going through the clip frame - by - frame?



That would probably work, good luck finding someone willling to go through with that headache though.


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## Banhammer (Jun 22, 2011)

please tell me we aren't talking about magic lightning again. I'll go on a negging spree


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## Endless Mike (Jun 22, 2011)

I just said since the primary canon is animated there's an easy way to calc it


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## Banhammer (Jun 22, 2011)

Context beats even that


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## Endless Mike (Jun 22, 2011)

Um, no. Direct visual observations are the highest form of evidence.


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## Banhammer (Jun 22, 2011)

Unless immediately contradicted by context and reasonable skepticism. Or are High Tropes accepted in the OBD now?


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## Endless Mike (Jun 22, 2011)

You can't just ignore direct, consistent visual evidence. Are you suggesting Avatar characters actually have massively hypersonic - relativistic reflexes?


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## Kael Hyun (Jun 22, 2011)

Banhammer said:


> please tell me we aren't talking about magic lightning again. I'll go on a negging spree



Magic Lightning? What the fuck is this shit? I swear sometimes I wish OBD didn't take it self to seriously. 
"Magic Lightning" Is obviously real lightning in the series. Just like it's real lightning or electricity in every other series.


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## Banhammer (Jun 22, 2011)

Endless Mike said:


> You can't just ignore direct, consistent visual evidence. Are you suggesting Avatar characters actually have massively hypersonic - relativistic reflexes?


No,  I'm not suggesting that, but only because justification for such appearance has been given on countless avatar speed threads.

Are you suggesting jhon mcclane is hypersonic?


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## Endless Mike (Jun 22, 2011)

I'm suggesting things move at the speed they are shown to move on film.


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## mykel23 (Jun 22, 2011)

I thought Azula's lightning, or any other lightning self-generated by firebenders are not actually the speed of lightning? Tsunade takes this.


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## Skywalker (Jun 22, 2011)

mykel23 said:


> I thought Azula's lightning, or any other lightning self-generated by firebenders are not actually the speed of lightning? Tsunade takes this.


It is lethal none the less, I doubt Tsunade is tanking it anytime soon.


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## mykel23 (Jun 23, 2011)

Skywalker said:


> It is lethal none the less, I doubt Tsunade is tanking it anytime soon.



Tsunade's fast enough to dodge those, and Azula does take a few seconds to get ready shooting the lightning.


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## A Optimistic (Jun 23, 2011)

How does Tsunade lose this fight?


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## Thor (Jun 23, 2011)

Tsunade obliterates Azula's body with one punch.


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## Lelouch Vi Britannia (Oct 15, 2011)

Result

1 dead Azula

1 Tsuande covered in Fire Nation's former Princess's guts.


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## tsunadefan (Oct 15, 2011)

Kind of a big deal said:


> Can't Tsunade just regen herself with her forehead seal and walk straight through the blasts coming from Azula?
> 
> Besides, even though Tsunade is a weak-ass character, I'm going to assume she knows some basic academy jutsu, since she IS still a kage. She could just use some kind of henge and substitution technique to catch her opponent off-guard.





zenieth said:


> Well for one completely fuck her balance over.
> 
> Really there is no argument here. For as terrible a character Tsunade is, she turns Azula into a stain on the time chamber.



i am quite annoyed at the statements about tsunade... weak-ass and a terrible character? really?! sigh.

i am also kinda surprised at legendarybeauty! not really though, i have always wondered which of the 2 is legendarybeauty's most favourite. i got my answer now. 



DarkFiresAssassin said:


> Result
> 
> 1 dead Azula
> 
> 1 Tsuande covered in Fire Nation's former Princess's guts.



i agree.  tsunade can dodge azula's attacks, seeing as she has good speed feats and a nice reaction feat, and i dont see much from azula. tsunade can spam katsuya and make her crush azula considering the distance. katsuya splitting up could overwhelm azula while tsunade is gonna try to get hits in. rashinshou is also there, that is if she gets close to her.


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## zenieth (Oct 15, 2011)




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## Soledad Eterna (Oct 16, 2011)

MyNindoForever said:


> Magic Lightning? What the fuck is this shit? I swear sometimes I wish OBD didn't take it self to seriously.
> "Magic Lightning" Is obviously real lightning in the series. Just like it's real lightning or electricity in every other series.



Lightning speed is not even constant, it varies. And avatar's "lightning" is just thrown electricity. So you can't put a speed on that.


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## Cromer (Oct 16, 2011)

at this thread even going beyond the first page, let alone five.


Even accepting the ridiculous notion that Tsunade powerscales as anything less than transonic, Azula has lolfucknothing by way of speed compared to that, whether in movement speed or technique usage. Her techniques can be pretty large scale, sure, but is that anything we don't see a Kage dealing with? Seriously?


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## Banhammer (Oct 16, 2011)

you just broke one of the laws of magic

Go forth Wardens of the white council!


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