# 2 overrated characters & 1 Underrated



## Shazam (Aug 21, 2018)

Mine... 


Itachi 
Hebi Sasuke
Underrated 


Hiruzen (or Hokage Kakashi)

Reactions: Like 3


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## Architect (Aug 21, 2018)

Minato, Tsunade
Darui

Reactions: Like 1


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## The_Conqueror (Aug 21, 2018)

Over Rated
--Your Favourite Character 
--Character I hate 

Underrated 
-- My Favs

Reactions: Like 3


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## Shazam (Aug 21, 2018)

The_Conqueror said:


> Over Rated
> --Your Favourite Character
> --Character I hate
> 
> ...


Old Hiruzen and Hokage Kakashi are far from my fav. Logic failed


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## Sequester (Aug 21, 2018)

Hiruzen is underrated? bu-bu-but I see _Prime Hiruzen _name drops everywhere.


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## Shazam (Aug 21, 2018)

Sequester said:


> Hiruzen is underrated? bu-bu-but I see _Prime Hiruzen _name drops everywhere.



Old.


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## LostSelf (Aug 21, 2018)

Overestimated:
Jiraiya, Boss Summons in general

Underestimated:
Mei

Reactions: Like 2


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## Troyse22 (Aug 21, 2018)

Shazam said:


> Underrated
> 
> 
> Hiruzen



Jfc lmfao


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## Troyse22 (Aug 21, 2018)

Overrated: Jiraiya. Reasoning: Regularly put on par with Pein, Minato, Itachi etc. Fans of them on this site also regularly pick and choose what statements and feats matter. 

Tsunade: Same as Jiraiya, although it's her summon that's extremely overrated

Underrated: Kisame. Reasoning: Regularly put FAR below BASE SANNIN, despite feats and portrayal putting him at or very close to Itachis level, this isn't a one off either, at least on 4 occasions their equality is hinted at.

Itachi in turn no diffed the strongest of the Sannin (Orochimaru)

But even though on panel feats happened, Sannin fans regularly use a outdated P1 statement to cling to their insanity

Fuck Sannin fans are retarded, at least in the NBD

Reactions: Like 2


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## WorldsStrongest (Aug 21, 2018)

Overrated 

Jman will never not belong on this list on this forum

Aside from him, Kakashi is occasionally up there. Considering there was legitimately a thread not long ago where it was argued that he can beat Nagato.

Underrated 

Mei in a 1v1 scenario


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## hbcaptain (Aug 21, 2018)

Overrated 
Jiraya, KB  (maybe Gaara or even Naruto actually)

Underrated
Itachi (actually)

Reactions: Like 1


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## Ziggy Stardust (Aug 21, 2018)

LostSelf said:


> Overestimated:
> Jiraiya, Boss Summons in general





Troyse22 said:


> Overrated: Jiraiya.





WorldsStrongest said:


> Overrated
> 
> Jman will never not belong on this list on this forum





hbcaptain said:


> Overrated
> Jiraya,



This is fucking priceless. And probably flies in the face of what OP, retarded as he is, was intending.

As for overrated: Jiraya almost certainly gets put on this list, given that all his ninjutsu in base can be avoided by using a substitution log.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Mar55 (Aug 21, 2018)

hbcaptain said:


> Underrated
> Itachi (actually)


You must be joking.


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## Ziggy Stardust (Aug 21, 2018)

I'm not going to say Itachi's underrated, most people rate him accurately although some wank him to Pein level. When he get's lumped in with Jman though, yeah. Although I think it's more people overestimating Jiraya than underestimating Itachi.


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## WorldsStrongest (Aug 21, 2018)

Love how people think Itachi is overrated despite the fact hes got like maybe one fan on this site guilty of doing so

Reactions: Like 1


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## hbcaptain (Aug 21, 2018)

Then, this is another episode of being bombarded by Jiraya fans for the sole reason of rating one character they don't like fairly.


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## Isaiah13000 (Aug 21, 2018)

Overrated:
Itachi of course, he will never not be overrated
Kakashi having one hax jutsu will not change his overall standing and portrayal in comparison to others
Underrated:
Old Hiruzen will always be underrated due to Part 2 war arc power inflation


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## King1 (Aug 21, 2018)

Overrated
Jiraiya ( Self Explanatory )
Underrated
Darui


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## WorldsStrongest (Aug 21, 2018)

Isaiah13000 said:


> Old Hiruzen will always be underrated due to Part 2 war arc power inflation


Basically saying hes not underrated at all and just has shitty feats


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## Ziggy Stardust (Aug 21, 2018)

WorldsStrongest said:


> Love how people think Itachi is overrated despite the fact hes got like maybe one fan on this site guilty of doing so




On this site, yeah. But I've seen Itachi vs Superman prime one million being debated on others. Granted, most people rooting for Itachi were trolling ( i may have been joining in)



Isaiah13000 said:


> Overrated:
> Itachi of course, he will never not be overrated



You think that Itachi and Kisame would only achieve a stalemate against base Jiraya though.. So how is your testimony admissible when Jiraya's toadstool is so far down your throat when you make it?


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## Cliffiffillite44428 (Aug 21, 2018)

Isaiah13000 said:


> Overrated:
> Itachi of course, he will never not be overrated
> Kakashi having one hax jutsu will not change his overall standing and portrayal in comparison to others
> Underrated:
> Old Hiruzen will always be underrated due to Part 2 war arc power inflation


How'd Jiraiya fare against Madara with Kakashi's Kamui and War Arc feats?


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## WorldsStrongest (Aug 21, 2018)

ziggystardust said:


> On this site, yeah. But I've seen Itachi vs Superman prime one million being debated


In the crossover section of this site, Itachi vs Galactus was also debated 

So i know that feel


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## Ziggy Stardust (Aug 21, 2018)

Itachi will find a way.


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## Mar55 (Aug 21, 2018)

hbcaptain said:


> Then, this is another episode of being bombarded by Jiraya fans for the sole reason of rating one character they don't like fairly.


Is this a reference to me? If so, you're really off the mark here.


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## WorldsStrongest (Aug 21, 2018)

The_Conqueror said:


> Over Rated
> --Your Favourite Character
> --Character I hate
> 
> ...


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## Crow (Aug 21, 2018)

Overrated

Kisame
Hebi/MS Sasuke
Underrated

Minato

Reactions: Like 2


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## Isaiah13000 (Aug 21, 2018)

hbcaptain said:


> Then, this is another episode of being bombarded by Jiraya fans for the sole reason of rating one character they don't like fairly.


 My god, the furthest Jiraiya fans ever go is putting him on par with Itachi and saying under heavily favorable circumstances he could beat a restricted Pain, both of which are supported by statements and showings in the manga. It's the Itachi fans who say the ridiculous stuff, like him being on par with Minato via overall portrayal (hype and feats), being able to beat Pain normally, being stronger than SM Kabuto, NTCM Naruto, and TBM Killer B. But sure, keep pushing your agenda about how Jiraiya is super overrated and how his fans are the real biased ones when none of them would ever say shit as ridiculous as that. 


WorldsStrongest said:


> Basically saying hes not underrated at all and just has shitty feats


Yeah he does, because power inflation didn't exist then. But his feats in the War Arc, when power inflation does exist, are actually pretty impressive. And no it's not due to him being Edo, as Edos don't have infinite chakra, their chakra reserves are the same as when alive, they just gradually replenish over time. We've literally seen them run out of chakra and become weakened or limited by using powerful Jutsu, so that was due to power inflation, not him being an Edo.


ziggystardust said:


> You think that Itachi and Kisame would only achieve a stalemate against base Jiraya though.. So how is your testimony admissible when Jiraya's toadstool is so far down your throat when you make it?


Except I have never ever said that and do not believe that, so stop making shit up.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Shazam (Aug 21, 2018)

There is plenty of indication of Sannin hate rather than Sannin wank.

There is currently a thread up right now discussing Itachi's genjutsu beating Nagato but people have the audacity to say Jiraiya is overrated while his character is currently in a thread against Hebi Sasuke. 

@ziggystardust we need to have a mod check your IP address. You are certainly some whiny ass dupe of a member whose been rejected too many times.... Honestly think you might be @Sage light


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## hbcaptain (Aug 21, 2018)

Isaiah13000 said:


> It's the Itachi fans who say the ridiculous stuff, like him being on par with Minato via overall portrayal (hype and feats), being able to beat Pain normally


Both are not ridiculous statement since he is this strong "_in average_" (the same general tier as base Minato and Pain), especially when you claim that Jiraya can beat Pain with full knowledge.
Not agreing with this is a thing but claiming that's a nonsens is nothing more than being dellusional and a hater.


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## Cliffiffillite44428 (Aug 21, 2018)

Isaiah13000 said:


> My god, the furthest Jiraiya fans ever go is putting him on par with Itachi and saying under heavily favorable circumstances he could beat a restricted Pain, both of which are supported by statements and showings in the manga. It's the Itachi fans who say the ridiculous stuff, like him being on par with Minato via overall portrayal (hype and feats), being able to beat Pain normally, being stronger than SM Kabuto, NTCM Naruto, and TBM Killer B. But sure, keep pushing your agenda about how Jiraiya is super overrated and how his fans are the real biased ones when none of them would ever say shit as ridiculous as that.
> Yeah he does, because power inflation didn't exist then. But his feats in the War Arc, when power inflation does exist, are actually pretty impressive. And no it's not due to him being Edo, as Edos don't have infinite chakra, their chakra reserves are the same as when alive, they just gradually replenish over time. We've literally seen them run out of chakra and become weakened or limited by using powerful Jutsu, so that was due to power inflation, not him being an Edo.
> Except I have never ever said that and do not believe that, so stop making shit up.


You haven't answered my question.


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## WorldsStrongest (Aug 21, 2018)

Isaiah13000 said:


> My god, the furthest Jiraiya fans ever go is putting him on par with Itachi


They go MUCH further than this bud

And even that is questionable given matchup reasons and Itachis feats anyway


Isaiah13000 said:


> saying under heavily favorable circumstances he could beat a restricted Pain


Which is bullshit

Cuz his stated better failed in this scenario

Instant canonical debunk 


Isaiah13000 said:


> both of which are supported by statements and showings in the manga


The latter of which is outright REFUTED by statements and showings in the manga

The former of which is at least vaguely debatable tho


Isaiah13000 said:


> being stronger than SM Kabuto


Ironic as FUCK considering ive never once seen any poster say Itachi beats kabuto but I REGULARLY see Jman fans state he does


Isaiah13000 said:


> Yeah he(Hiruzen) does(have shitty feats)


Glad we agree


Isaiah13000 said:


> sure, keep pushing your agenda about how Jiraiya is super overrated


He is...

Because people regularly put him at a level that canon goes out of its way to show us he ISNT AT.

And people do that by suggesting he can outperform KN6 and SM Naruto 

Which is bull


Isaiah13000 said:


> and how his fans are the real biased ones


They are

And the degree to which they believe what they do is astounding 

Ive seen Jman fans state Goemon and Endan hit harder than FRS does ffs

Among many other cancerous statements far too numerous to list here

Hell dude, go back like 6 months and all your Sannin bros (maybe even you yourself tbh) legit argued for a significant period of time that Jman in base could beat Amaterasu with Fuka Hoin...That he has to draw manually...And doesn't have prep to do...


Isaiah13000 said:


> when none of them would ever say shit as ridiculous as that.


I

Beg

To

Differ


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## King1 (Aug 21, 2018)

Isaiah13000 said:


> Except I have never ever said that and do not believe that, so stop making shit up.


But you know some jman's fans believe in that right? They take the statement made by itachi to hype him and create their own version of him. You might not engage in those flawed arguments but you can't deny that, jman fans are actually wilding and they are ready to raise him on a pedestal where he does not belong


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## Isaiah13000 (Aug 21, 2018)

hbcaptain said:


> Both are not ridiculous statement since he is this strong "_in average_" (the same general tier as base Minato and Pain), especially when you claim that Jiraya can beat Pain with full knowledge.
> Not agreeing with this is a thing but claiming that's a nonsens is nothing more than being dellusional and a hater.


I agree that he is in the same tier as Minato, but Minato is clearly above him by a decent margin. That isn't the most ridiculous thing though, it's him beating Pain under normal conditions. I don't see how anyone could possibly think he could do that without being biased themselves. 



Sage light said:


> You haven't answered my question.


What was your question again?


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## Architect (Aug 21, 2018)

WorldsStrongest said:


> In the crossover section of this site, Itachi vs Galactus was also debated
> 
> So i know that feel


seen this picture long ago


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## Trojan (Aug 21, 2018)

Overrated:
1- DMS Kakashi
2- Hashirama

There are many more of course, but those 2 are the worst

Underrated: 
Tsunade

there are more, but Tsunade probably gets the worst type of underestimation.
People act like she is Academy-level or below.


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## Ziggy Stardust (Aug 21, 2018)

Isaiah13000 said:


> Except I have never ever said that and do not believe that, so stop making shit up.



Your claim :



Isaiah13000 said:


> Til this day, they do not acknowledge Jiraiya being equal to living Itachi



The basis for your claim :



> despite Itachi saying so



Right. What Itachi said was that he would _at best_ achieve is a stalemate against Jiraya, even with backup (kisame). He clearly doesn't know about sage mode (why would he?) so he's talking about base Jiraya. Unless, what you're saying is that Itachi's statement is inadmissible? Then we can simply strike another wanky hype off for Jiraya.


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## WorldsStrongest (Aug 21, 2018)

Shazam said:


> There is plenty of indication of Sannin hate rather than Sannin wank.

Reactions: Like 1


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## hbcaptain (Aug 21, 2018)

Isaiah13000 said:


> I agree that he is in the same tier as Minato, but Minato is clearly above him by a decent margin. That isn't the most ridiculous thing though, it's him beating Pain under normal conditions. I don't see how anyone could possibly think he could do that without being biased themselves.


As I said in my previous post desagreeing is a thing but not accepting those who consider him slighly weaker, equal or slightly stronger than Pain or Minato is a nothing more than complete nonsens, being dellusional and a hater.
That's why he is underrated.


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## Cliffiffillite44428 (Aug 21, 2018)

Shazam said:


> There is plenty of indication of Sannin hate rather than Sannin wank.
> 
> There is currently a thread up right now discussing Itachi's genjutsu beating Nagato but people have the audacity to say Jiraiya is overrated while his character is currently in a thread against Hebi Sasuke.
> 
> @ziggystardust we need to have a mod check your IP address. You are certainly some whiny ass dupe of a member whose been rejected too many times.... Honestly think you might be @Sage light


This coming from one of the greatest trolls in site.  Lmao rejected? Why should I care about being rejected on fucking online? The fact you care about those shows the level of no life you are in. "whiny ass dupe of a member" you're the only one who whines, bud. You're the one in every thread with the "Itachi is overrated omo" and that's the definition of whining if you aren't aware.


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## WorldsStrongest (Aug 21, 2018)

Shazam said:


> There is currently a thread up right now discussing Itachi's genjutsu beating Nagato


Which is literally some guy asking a question to form a consensus...Not stating it as fact.

Really dishonest as fuck way to present this as evidence to Jman not being overrated

Also fun fact...Itachi or ANYONE ELSE being overrated doesnt mean Jman isnt

There can be more than one character thats wanked 


Shazam said:


> people have the audacity to say Jiraiya is overrated while his character is currently in a thread against Hebi Sasuke.


Oh dear god!

Jman against someone who is in his relative tier!

The humanity!


Shazam said:


> @ziggystardust we need to have a mod check your IP address. You are certainly some whiny ass dupe of a member whose been rejected too many times.... Honestly think you might be @Sage light


He articulates himself much better than Sage does

I disagree


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## Ziggy Stardust (Aug 21, 2018)

Shazam is mad because he and many other Jiraya groupies dogpiled the Hebi Sasuke vs Jiraya thread and still couldn't rebuke the perverts nigh one shotting via speed or 3t genjutsu.


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## Orochimaruwantsyourbody (Aug 21, 2018)

Lots to choose from. Today I will go


Overrated

Gai, Killer Bee


Underrated

Part One Edo Hashirama


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## Djomla (Aug 21, 2018)

Overrated

Hiruzen

Underrated 

Fu and Torune, Shikamaru, Hokage Kakashi


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## LostSelf (Aug 21, 2018)

Shazam said:


> There is plenty of indication of Sannin hate rather than Sannin wank.



There is Sannin wank for several reasons since a long time already. It basically happened the moment Itachi time ended on the forums.


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## Trojan (Aug 21, 2018)

Djomla said:


> Overrated
> 
> Hiruzen
> 
> ...


*2 overrated characters & 1 Underrated*


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## JuicyG (Aug 21, 2018)

*Overrated:*


Muu
Living Itachi

*underrated:*


WA Sakura
Think I saw someone say Muu would solo Minato & Kakashi.

Ive seen people seriously suggest Itachi > Pain. Itachi => Nagato. Itachi possibly beating Hashirama. Itachi > Minato.

Sakura in the WA had some good showings and strong statements. She is stronger than what a lot of people give her credit for


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## Djomla (Aug 21, 2018)

Hussain said:


> *2 overrated characters & 1 Underrated*



Screw you.


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## WorldsStrongest (Aug 21, 2018)

JuicyG said:


> Ive seen people seriously suggest Itachi > Pain


Not that im defending that nonsense...

Apparently its ok when its Jman tho


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## Mar55 (Aug 21, 2018)

Really, it looks like half of these forums hate the Sannin.

So much so that if you even slightly support the Sannin you're suddenly a Sannin wanker.


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## WorldsStrongest (Aug 21, 2018)

Mar55 said:


> Really, it looks like half of these forums hate the Sannin.
> 
> So much so that if you even slightly support the Sannin you're suddenly a Sannin wanker.


Dont do that

Reactions: Like 1


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## Mar55 (Aug 21, 2018)

WorldsStrongest said:


> Dont do that


That being?


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## Deleted member 211714 (Aug 21, 2018)

As of late, I think Kisame tops the list as the most underrated. Even being an average Kage-level character doesn't cut it for this guy based on his feats and portrayal.


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## Ziggy Stardust (Aug 21, 2018)

It's not the Sannin that gets wanked. The other two are relatively well portrayed. It's just Jiraya. 

Itachi told a lie to Kisame 
The pein hype can be interpreted as a non combative statement

He would lose to Itachi in the manner that Oro did when the former was 13.


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## Isaiah13000 (Aug 21, 2018)

WorldsStrongest said:


> They go MUCH further than this bud


 I guarantee you when you look at the Naruto fanbase as a whole, and not just this forum, you will find Itachi fans going much farther than Jiraiya fans ever would. Just look up the "Itachi vs Nagato" video on Youtube, and see how many people think Itachi wins and is more hax than Nagato is. 



> And even that is questionable given matchup reasons and Itachis feats anyway


I'd rather not engage in another Jiraiya vs Itachi argument right now, I'll save it for the monthly "Jiraiya vs Itachi" threads. 



> Which is bullshit
> 
> Cuz his stated better failed in this scenario
> 
> ...


 Not really, depending on what Nagato meant, it is perfectly plausible. If Jiraiya proceeded to take on the latter three Paths after defeating the first three, and had knowledge of them and knew they were coming he could've taken them out or escaped them and taken out a defenseless Nagato directly. Naruto isn't Jiraiya and does not possess Jiraiya's arsenal nor synergy with the toads, so just because he failed doesn't mean Jiraiya would. 



> Ironic as FUCK considering ive never once seen any poster say Itachi beats kabuto but I REGULARLY see Jman fans state he does


 I don't like putting posters on the spot, but the only Jiraiya fan I've seen say SM Jiraiya > SM Kabuto is Hussain, whilst I've seen Bonly say Itachi > SM Kabuto and I'm sure Sage Light believes it too. 



> Glad we agree


 So you're just gonna leave out the rest of my post? Lmao okay. 



> He is...
> 
> Because people regularly put him at a level that canon goes out of its way to show us he ISNT AT.
> 
> ...


 How the fuck is it bull when Pain said so himself? See you always think your own interpretation of things is somehow more canon than what the characters themselves say. This is why arguing with you is a pain in the ass, you always assert your own opinion > what characters say. And that's funny because you're the main one who screams and cries about "Source credibility" but when a statement comes from an undeniably credible source you still deny it because it does not fall in line with your view of later feats. 



> They are
> 
> And the degree to which they believe what they do is astounding
> 
> ...


 I've never seen any Jiraiya fan say this. 



> I
> 
> Beg
> 
> ...


As do I.



King1 said:


> But you know some jman's fans believe in that right? They take the statement made by itachi to hype him and create their own version of him. You might not engage in those flawed arguments but you can't deny that, jman fans are actually wilding and they are ready to raise him on a pedestal where he does not belong


 No one can seriously believe base Jiraiya > Itachi and Kisame. Anyone who does is either trolling or simply should not be taken seriously.


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## Orochimaruwantsyourbody (Aug 21, 2018)

Mar55 said:


> Really, it looks like half of these forums hate the Sannin.
> 
> So much so that if you even slightly support the Sannin you're suddenly a Sannin wanker.


They get triggered if you post Manga statements about the Sannin.


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## Ziggy Stardust (Aug 21, 2018)

Isaiah13000 said:


> No one can seriously believe base Jiraiya > Itachi and Kisame. Anyone who does is either trolling or simply should not be taken seriously.



So you admit Itachi shouldn't be taken seriously when stating such.


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## LostSelf (Aug 21, 2018)

Mar55 said:


> So much so that if you even slightly support the Sannin you're suddenly a Sannin wanker.





Orochimaruwantsyourbody said:


> They get triggered if you post Manga statements about the Sannin.



Fun fact: 2010 Itachi fans used to say this, too .


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## JuicyG (Aug 21, 2018)

WorldsStrongest said:


> Not that im defending that nonsense...
> 
> Apparently its ok when its Jman tho



When it comes to Pain, its best for people to leave Jiraiya and Itachi out of any 1v1 equations.

Its sad that I need to say this, but the same goes for placing either of them against Minato, Nagato and Hashirama as well.


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## Mar55 (Aug 21, 2018)

LostSelf said:


> Fun fact: 2010 Itachi fans used to say this, too .


I'm sorry, that's not really something I care about.


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## LostSelf (Aug 21, 2018)

Mar55 said:


> I'm sorry, that's not really something I care about.



Oh, I am totally aware of that.


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## King1 (Aug 21, 2018)

King Itachi said:


> I think Kisame tops the list as the most* underrated*


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## Mar55 (Aug 21, 2018)

LostSelf said:


> Oh, I am totally aware of that.


This doesn't make any sense.

For starters, you made the stupid assumption that I'm a Sannin fan. I'm an Orochimaru fan, and that's it.


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## Trojan (Aug 21, 2018)

I don't think I have seen those who whine about the sannin say they will defeat any character at all. 
If you say the Sannin could defeat ANYONE, even if it's Mizuke, they will say you overrate them. 

Even if your opinion in the matter is strictly copy & paste from the manga, you are somehow overestimating them.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Gianfi (Aug 21, 2018)

Overrated:
Jiraya 
Prime Hiruzen 

Underrated:
Hidan


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## Isaiah13000 (Aug 21, 2018)

ziggystardust said:


> Your claim :
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 One of the differences between you and me is that I think it is more logical to view things from an out-of-universe perspective than an in-universe one. So when Kishimoto had Itachi say him and Jiraiya were equal, he meant for that to indicate that Itachi was Jiraiya's equal. As to me it doesn't make sense, unless later proven blatantly wrong, for him to purposely have his characters state false things regarding their strength and the strength of others. That'd be unnecessarily misleading his reader, so the statement should be accepted as true until proven otherwise. Also, even if you want to look at it from an in-universe perspective, it still holds up as Itachi's convo with Kabuto in the War made it clear that Itachi knows of Sage Mode's existence and the places it comes from. So considering Jiraiya was also known as the "Toad Sage", Itachi must've suspected that Jiraiya had Sage Mode and that they would both tie if they were to fight. 



hbcaptain said:


> As I said in my previous post desagreeing is a thing but not accepting those who consider him slighly weaker, equal or slightly stronger than Pain or Minato is a nothing more than complete nonsens, being dellusional and a hater.
> That's why he is underrated.


We'll have to agree to disagree then.


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## LostSelf (Aug 21, 2018)

Mar55 said:


> This doesn't make any sense.
> 
> For starters, you made the stupid assumption that I'm a Sannin fan. I'm an Orochimaru fan, and that's it.



Because I didn't quote your post to debate with someone who thinks the Sannin are hated just because a lot of people think they are overestimated. 

I quoted the post to point how Itachi fans used to say the same when they were emt with a lot of people calling him overrated. "No, he's not overrated, you're just a hater!" But it was never an attemtp to debate with you. i guess I don't even know you or have never seen you before, let alone to know if you're a Sannin fan or not.


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## Deleted member 211714 (Aug 21, 2018)

There are only a handful of people that argue for Kisame being above the average Kage-level characters, while most tend to think he's right there and even all the way down to being one of the weakest Kage-level characters. That's a belief held by several posters due to the ongoing argument of Base Jiraiya being able to one-shot Kisame. Even though it never happened in the manga and Kisame was following Itachi's orders, it still continues to come up every week.


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## Mar55 (Aug 21, 2018)

LostSelf said:


> Because I didn't quote your post to debate with someone who thinks the Sannin are hated just because a lot of people think they are overestimated.


You'd have to tell me when I said that.


LostSelf said:


> I quoted the post to point how Itachi fans used to say the same when they were emt with a lot of people calling him overrated.


Which is irrelevant to me, as I never said he's not overrated. In fact, I simply said it seems like many hate the Sannin, and it does.

You made an assumption, a stupid one.


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## LostSelf (Aug 21, 2018)

Hussain said:


> I don't think I have seen those who whine about the sannin say they will defeat any character at all.



Maybe not Jiraiya, but Tsunade summoning 10% Katsuyu and Orochimaru summoning Manda and sitting there while their summons fight are capable of beating 8th Gated Gai easily. Kappa

there's only one argument that is more crazy in the entire Naruto battlefome history and is Itachi sealing Galactus. The Sannin owns the second place .


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## Cliffiffillite44428 (Aug 21, 2018)

Isaiah13000 said:


> I agree that he is in the same tier as Minato, but Minato is clearly above him by a decent margin. That isn't the most ridiculous thing though, it's him beating Pain under normal conditions. I don't see how anyone could possibly think he could do that without being biased themselves.
> 
> What was your question again?


How'd Jiraiya fare against Madara(Juubi) with Kakashi's Kamui & War arc feats?


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## Trojan (Aug 21, 2018)

LostSelf said:


> Maybe not Jiraiya, but Tsunade summoning 10% Katsuyu and Orochimaru summoning Manda and sitting there while their summons fight are capable of beating 8th Gated Gai easily. Kappa
> 
> there's only one argument that is more crazy in the entire Naruto battlefome history and is Itachi sealing Galactus. The Sannin owns the second place .



Gai is a glass cannon. Kappa

Reactions: Like 2


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## Mar55 (Aug 21, 2018)

LostSelf said:


> The Sannin owns the second place .


I'd say the arguments for Hashirama beating The Last Naruto or Toneri are far far worse, but meh.

Reactions: Like 1


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## LostSelf (Aug 21, 2018)

Mar55 said:


> You made an assumption, a stupid one.



"I made the post to show something Itachi fans used to say not to debate with you."
"I don't know you and have never seen you before, so I don't even know if you're a fan or not."

You're assuming Lostself! 

Just... Nah, I better leave you there.


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## Plexa (Aug 21, 2018)

Jiraiya's overrated (but still very powerful), Sakura's underrated

Reactions: Like 1


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## Trojan (Aug 21, 2018)

Mar55 said:


> I'd say the arguments for Hashirama beating The Last Naruto or Toneri are far far worse, but meh.


I would say Hashirama defeating Momoshiki because he lost to Kurama/PS is even worse than that.


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## hbcaptain (Aug 21, 2018)

Plexa said:


> Sakura's underrated


Not anymore


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## Plexa (Aug 21, 2018)

hbcaptain said:


> Not anymore



She's god tier.


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## LostSelf (Aug 21, 2018)

Mar55 said:


> I'd say the arguments for Hashirama beating The Last Naruto or Toneri are far far worse, but meh.



It depends. I admit I have not seen The Last Naruto or Toneri, but I have seen Hashirama's. But Hashirama beating Juubito is not as crazy because Hashirama is far closer to Juubito than Manda is to 8th Gated Gai.

Even @Hussain agrees .


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## Zero890 (Aug 21, 2018)

WorldsStrongest said:


> Ive seen Jman fans state Goemon and Endan hit harder than FRS does ffs



Im sure that no one said this shit.


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## Tri (Aug 21, 2018)

Overrated

Masters

Underrated

Sakura I guess

Reactions: Like 1


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## King1 (Aug 21, 2018)

King Itachi said:


> There are only a handful of people that argue for Kisame being above the average Kage-level characters, while most tend to think he's right there and even all the way down to being one of the weakest Kage-level characters. That's a belief held by several posters due to the ongoing argument of Base Jiraiya being able to one-shot Kisame. Even though it never happened in the manga and Kisame was following Itachi's orders, it still continues to come up every week.


Am not trying to start an argument with you whether or not kisame is average kage level or low, but am sure you are familiar with the Post Recton Kisame meme right? Which came about with people ( won't list names ) giving kisame feats and attributes that he does not have to enable him to compete with characters several tiers above him


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## Mar55 (Aug 21, 2018)

LostSelf said:


> "I made the post to show something Itachi fans used to say not to debate with you."


Which was totally irrelevant, it's almost like you're just pushing that stupid agenda you had.


LostSelf said:


> It depends.


No, it doesn't. It's a trash argument that deserves to be disregarded with disdain.


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## Zero890 (Aug 21, 2018)

Overrated:

Itachi->Genjutsu GG Nagato, can break Frog Son biting the lips.

Hebi Sasuke-> Being so fast that Obito can not have a body reaction, 3T Genjutsu GG Jiraiya.

Underrated:

Hidan-> he is not a factor.


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## Mar55 (Aug 21, 2018)

Zero890 said:


> Hebi Sasuke-> Being so fast that Obito can not have a body reaction


My fave, Hebi Sasuke sure is super strong. Shame he got so much weaker with his MS and EMS.


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## LostSelf (Aug 21, 2018)

Mar55 said:


> No, it doesn't. It's a trash argument that deserves to be disregarded with disdain.



It is a bad argument but not as bad as Manda tanking and beating Gai by itslef for reasons I assume, for my faith on this forum, that everybody understands.



Mar55 said:


> Which was totally irrelevant, it's almost like you're just pushing that stupid agenda you had.



Seriously, just stop . 

It was fine at first, not so fine when I clarified it to you. Now you're sounding very pathetic and is the last bait I'll bother to take from you on this specific matter.


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## Mithos (Aug 21, 2018)

Overrated: 
The Masters

Underrated: 
Hiruzen

Reactions: Like 3


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## Mar55 (Aug 21, 2018)

LostSelf said:


> It was fine at first, not so fine when I clarified it to you. Now you're sounding very pathetic and is the last bait I take from this matter


Bait? Do you even know what the word means?


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## Maverick04 (Aug 21, 2018)

Not surprised at all..Turned into an "Itachi / Jiraiya is overrated" thread..Wanted to avoid this altogether but theres something about these shitposts that you're drawn into it completely..Anyways this is what I personally believe the overrated and underrated should be.

Overrated:
1. Prime Hiruzen
2. Tobirama

Underrated:

Im gonna cheat here and state multiple characters:
Suigetsu, SRA Gaara, VoTE 1 Naruto and Sasuke, Sasori

Reactions: Like 1


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## Zero890 (Aug 21, 2018)

Oh no a Itachi fan rated my post funny.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Isaiah13000 (Aug 21, 2018)

Sage light said:


> How'd Jiraiya fare against Madara(Juubi) with Kakashi's Kamui & War arc feats?


I mean I'm not too interested in unrealistic hypotheticals, but I'm not too sure, I'd say he'd perform at least as well I suppose.


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## Jackalinthebox (Aug 21, 2018)

Overrated:
- Jiraiya (can solo Itachi & Kisame while in base, stronger than Pain, better sensing than SM Kabuto, etc)
- 7th Gate Gai (fast enough to dodge Ama, can deflect S rank Jutsu with his aura, on par with Juubidara)

Underrated:
- EMS Madara (weaker than the Gokage, PS can be busted by FCD, Tsunade & Sakura can destroy PS with their punches, has less chakra than any of the Bijuu, etc)


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## NamesClassified (Aug 21, 2018)

First Overrated: *Sanin*.

I want to preface that this statement isn't out of malice as Jiraiya's my second favorite character in the series. Jirayia, Roach and to a lesser extant Tsunade are constantly put up against opponents who's tech they have little answer for, A3's/ A4's superior speed and insane durability being a recent example i've seen floating around the battledome.


Some posters make annoying accusations unworthy of any battleforum. One poster insinuated that because of "portrayal", Tsunade's immune to any adverse effects Kamui may have on her in battle. Here's the convo i'm referring to.


NamesClassified said:


> Because? Their isn't really a concrete reason why Tsunade is immune to Kakashi's Kamui.





Isaiah13000 said:


> You already know why, because it doesn't support his portrayal.



And lastly people scoff at the notion that people in a similar positions of power(Kisame, Guy, Kakashi) can contend in the ring with these juggernauts. Since OP specified only two can be admitted, I'll go with Jiraiya since iv'e got another character to talk about....


Second Overrated: *Kimmario.*

He got stalmated by a bunch of children, but supposedly can compete against the low and even mid Kage level opponents. His durability makes him so invulnerable to any offensive and when healthy, he bumps two tiers up the food chain.


Underatted: *Base Kakashi*.

Some people will sight nutty ass notions like"portrayal" or only look to his overall standing in part 1 to supplement their argument that Kakashi without MS is low Kage/Jonin fodder.

Fodder can't last a chapter against Pain's two strongest combat units, fodder can't feint individuals such as Deva and Itachi and fodders certainty can't square up against 2 V2 Jinchuriki for multiple chapters.

In accordance with tier list i've seen on this site, an MS restricted Kakashi is at least Mid Kage.

Reactions: Like 4


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## Ziggy Stardust (Aug 21, 2018)

Isaiah13000 said:


> One of the differences between you and me is that I think it is more logical to view things from an out-of-universe perspective than an in-universe one. So when Kishimoto had Itachi say him and Jiraiya were equal, he meant for that to indicate that Itachi was Jiraiya's equal.



Cliffs : your approach to viewing the manga isn't as logical as mine. That's because what happens out-of-universe is usually in a state of uncertainty. What the author may think in one moment might oppose what he thinks in the next. For example, he might come to terms with Kisame being Jiraya's better when reviewing his work, but won't necessarily have an opportunity to jot down those thoughts because the current arc has no relevance to either character. Which is why we should treat _in universe_ statements as _in universe statments_, rather than every character representing the word of god, including people such as Iruka. For example :

*Link Removed*

When Jiraya claims _you two will die by my hand_ and those two don't die by his hand, we can separate the author from the character, because clearly Jiraya, as a fictional creation, has his own thoughts and his own understanding of the reality in Naruto. To view it in any other way merely distorts the reader's suspense of disbelief when we always have to discern what Kishi might think about the context rather than treating Naruto as its own fictional world with unexplored sectors and genuine character livelihood. There is some well respected literary criticism that supports my notion, namely Wimsatt and Beardsley's "The Intentional Fallacy" and Roland Barthes'  essay ; both argue that the interpretation of a work cannot be limited to attempts to discern the author's intentions. While your notion appears to be formed the continuous skull fucking Jiraya gives you.


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## Zero890 (Aug 21, 2018)

@hbcaptain Have calm, dude, it was just a joke


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## Santoryu (Aug 21, 2018)

*Overrated*:

Sannin (Self explanatory, view recent threads)
Sound 5 (Self explanatory)

*Underrated*:

Dojutsu equipped Jinjuriki (They smacked around Bee and Naruto)

I was going to say 3TS Kakashi, but the public recently voted for his win against an unrestricted Tsunade. 


p.s I'm aware that I included groups instead of individuals.

Reactions: Like 1


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## JuicyG (Aug 21, 2018)

Santoryu said:


> *Overrated*:
> 
> Sannin (Self explanatory, view recent threads)


Could you link me to some of these recent threads that self explain Sannin overrating?

(Oh and by the way, Sannin is 3 people. You have effectively included 4 people in your overrated section)


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## Mar55 (Aug 21, 2018)

JuicyG said:


> (Oh and by the way, Sannin is 3 people. You have effectively included 4 people in your overrated section)


8, actually. He said Sound 5 and the Sannin.


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## JuicyG (Aug 21, 2018)

I also didn't see her asterisk/PS note


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## Santoryu (Aug 21, 2018)

JuicyG said:


> Could you link me to some of these recent threads that self explain Sannin overrating?
> 
> (Oh and by the way, Sannin is 3 people. You have effectively included 4 people in your overrated section)





Dunno why people would think the Sannin can beat The Masters who are both unrestricted (meaning Gai has 8 gates).


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## Leaf Hurricane (Aug 21, 2018)

Over rated :
Itachi
Edo itachi

Underrated :
Itachi when he is holding back.


EDIT : He is either winning or letting his opponents win.... It's a win win for him always.


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## Phenomenon (Aug 21, 2018)

(Overrated)

Jiraiya
Nagato

(Underrated)

Tsunade

Reactions: Like 1


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## JuicyG (Aug 21, 2018)

Santoryu said:


> Dunno why people would think the Sannin can beat The Masters who are both unrestricted (meaning Gai has 8 gates).



Nobody thinks the Sannin (or Itachi) would beat 8th Gate Gai. 

But if your sole reasoning to say that the Sannin are overrated is based on a single thread against the Masters (in which, yes the Sannin are above unless 8th Gate is on the table) then you have failed to provide sufficient meaning.  

If the Sannin are ever overrated is because some people don't like the idea of Jiraiya being debated to close, at or above Itachi. That is 99% of the reason. Remove that from the equation and you are also simultaneously removing Sannin hate.


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## King Ramirez (Aug 21, 2018)

*Overatted.*
- DMS Kakashi (most overrated in history)
- Hashirama

*Underrated*
- Killer Bee


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## Eliyua23 (Aug 21, 2018)

Nagato by far is the most overrated right now , people don’t take into account his condition and think his raw power makes him much stronger than Minato/Itachi despite Obito/Madara having less raw power yet being portrayed as stronger I mean he held the power that combined the bloodline of Uchiha/Senju yet was a good deal weaker than Madara/Hashirama , he’s cripple which means he’s useless in hand to hand combat and his battle tactics/instincts were merely above avg and like Kakashi was straining his power due to the Rinnegan being only an implant I see Nagato/Danzo both as weaker then Minato/Itachi. 

Also overrated right now Hebi Sasuke he’s a low Kage who was even weaker than Armless Orochimaru and was much weaker than Sick Itachi But most think he’s a High Kage 


Underrated 

Naruto(Immortals Arc) he’s just as strong as Hebi Sasuke when he can summon Gambuta and use KN3.


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## King Ramirez (Aug 21, 2018)

Eliyua23 said:


> Kakashi was straining his power due to the Rinnegan being only an implant I see Nagato/Danzo both as weaker then Minato/Itachi.


I don't agree with this statement. How the hell is Nagato weaker than Minato and Itachi? And no his raw power isn't greater than EMS Madara's, PS shits on all his techs.

In an attempt to justify that Nagato is overrated, you end up underrating him. Nagato is a tier higher than Alive Minato and Itachi even while crippled.


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## DaVizWiz (Aug 21, 2018)

*Overrated*:

1. 
2. 
3. 
Sannin (Just saw someone say Oro could solo *7G Gai, 3-toma Kakashi & Darui with Oro's summoning restricted*)

*Underrated*:

Speedsters in general. Anyone can react and counter elite speedsters (Ei, Gai, Killer Bee) now, including the slowest kage levels (such as Deidara or Base Jiraiya). Doesn't matter the distance or whether they have knowledge.


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## Shazam (Aug 21, 2018)

DaVizWiz said:


> *Overrated*:
> 
> Sannin (Just saw someone say Oro could solo *7G Gai, 3-toma Kakashi & Darui with Oro's summoning restricted*)
> 
> ...



Top this.


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## DaVizWiz (Aug 21, 2018)

Shazam said:


> Top this.


Majority ruled MS Sasuke would beat Itachi in a thread a month ago and for some reason Itachi vs. Tsunade got 40 replies deep yesterday.

So I don't really buy into him being overrated here, maybe from one or two posters, but he's been shit on as of recent.

The mere implication Itachi would struggle against his brother 5 years ago, let alone lose to him (lmao) would've gotten you negged out the ass and flamed across the thread by multiple members.

Any Tsunade vs. Itachi thread not being closed by the first page is a sin against humanity.


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## JuicyG (Aug 21, 2018)

DaVizWiz said:


> Majority ruled MS Sasuke would beat Itachi in a thread a month ago and for some reason Itachi vs. Tsunade got 40 replies deep yesterday.
> 
> So I don't really buy into him being overrated here, maybe from one or two posters, but he's been shit on as of recent.



Itachi beats Tsunade

However MS Sasuke is a high diff fight.


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## DaVizWiz (Aug 21, 2018)

JuicyG said:


> Itachi beats Tsunade
> 
> However MS Sasuke is a high diff fight.


Proof Itachi isn't overrated.


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## JuicyG (Aug 21, 2018)

DaVizWiz said:


> Proof Itachi isn't overrated.



Generally speaking, NBD varies a lot about his placement.

Its either pseudo God tier down to Sannin tier


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## Santoryu (Aug 21, 2018)

JuicyG said:


> Nobody thinks the Sannin (or Itachi) would beat 8th Gate Gai.



But people do think that the Sannin would beat the masters even if the 8th gate was unrestricted, which as you know, was my point. You're just arguing semantics here.



JuicyG said:


> But if your sole reasoning



I will have to stop you here.

It's not my sole reasoning. I linked you to merely one thread which happened to have multiple examples. I don't have the time or patience to link you to several threads. I trust that you can further explore the wonderful battledome on your own merit.



JuicyG said:


> (in which, yes the Sannin are above unless 8th Gate is on the table) then you have failed to provide sufficient meaning.



As noted earlier, the 8th gate was unrestricted. The OP expicitly stated this too.

Whether or not the Sannin are "above" them is not even central to my earlier point.



JuicyG said:


> If the Sannin are ever overrated is because some people don't like the idea of Jiraiya being debated to close, at or above Itachi. That is 99% of the reason. Remove that from the equation and you are also simultaneously removing Sannin hate.



We'll have to agree to disagree on that.


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## Ziggy Stardust (Aug 21, 2018)

JuicyG said:


> Generally speaking, NBD varies a lot about his placement.
> 
> Its either pseudo God tier down to Sannin tier



_When there exists two extremes the truth usually lies in the middle_


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## DaVizWiz (Aug 21, 2018)

JuicyG said:


> Generally speaking, NBD varies a lot about his placement.
> 
> Its either pseudo God tier down to Sannin tier


Not really.

Most active users agreed with the sentiment that he'd lose to MS Sasuke in a thread that didn't even have Sasuke in it.

As ridiculous as that was to read, I took notice of it. He's not overrated.

The opinion of @Itachiisinvincible and @Sage light doesn't speak for the entire battledome, and those are about the only two guys who think he's a pseudo god tier.


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## JuicyG (Aug 21, 2018)

DaVizWiz said:


> Not really.
> 
> Most active users agreed with the sentiment that he'd lose to MS Sasuke in a thread that didn't even have Sasuke in it.
> 
> I already said this.



MS Sasuke vs MS Itachi - This match up is not indication that he is underrated though. On the contrary its evidence of fair rating. However, when the few times Itachi is placed against Nagato or being said that he'd have a chance to beat Hashirama and nobody calls that out, but runs to call out Sannin for little things shows the bias around here.



ziggystardust said:


> _When there exists two extremes the truth usually lies in the middle_



Placing Itachi anywhere near God-tier is the obvious extreme. Placing him around Sannin might not be comfortable for some, but its FAR from the other side of the spectrum and MUCH closer to the truth. So no, its not in the middle. That'd still place Itachi in company with Rinne Obito and Nagato and KCM Minato.


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## DaVizWiz (Aug 21, 2018)

> MS Sasuke vs MS Itachi - This match up is not indication that he is underrated though. On the contrary its evidence of fair rating. However, when the few times Itachi is placed against Nagato or being said that he'd have a chance to beat Hashirama and nobody calls that out, but runs to call out Sannin for little things shows the bias around here.


I never implied he was underrated.

If Itachi is being put as inferior to another basic MS user ... that implies *he isn't overrated*.

You're referring to radical arguments by one or two users, the Sannin are consistently backed by an entire fandom of debaters here in every thread they're in.


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## Eliyua23 (Aug 21, 2018)

King Ramirez said:


> I don't agree with this statement. How the hell is Nagato weaker than Minato and Itachi? And no his raw power isn't greater than EMS Madara's, PS shits on all his techs.
> 
> In an attempt to justify that Nagato is overrated, you end up underrating him. Nagato is a tier higher than Alive Minato and Itachi even while crippled.



Becasue in the data book there are more things that make a Shinobi competent other than just ninjutsu there , in addition to having exceptional ninjutsu themselves they are blazing fast , great at hand to hand , exceptional analyaticak minds , exceptional with hand seals , weaponry , fuinjutsu , both have had with FTG/Death Realer Seal , Totsuka/Genjutsu respectively all that  overcompensates for lack of raw power and both to me were portrayed better on panel.

Nagato has access to the power Madara died for I would say he has more raw power than Madara , it’s just Madara is so exceptional everywhere else he makes his Rinnegan obsolete. And even if you think Nagato is stronger no way in hell is he a tier higher than Minato/Itachi(Healthy).


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## Zero890 (Aug 21, 2018)

DaVizWiz said:


> If Itachi is being put as inferior to another basic MS user ... that implies he isn't overrated.



You have people who thinks that he can solo the Sannin, he can blitz KCM Naruto and break Frog Song, but you think that he is not overrated?


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## Ziggy Stardust (Aug 21, 2018)

JuicyG said:


> Placing Itachi anywhere near God-tier is the obvious extreme. Placing him around Sannin might not be comfortable for some, but its FAR from the other side of the spectrum and MUCH closer to the truth. So no, its not in the middle. That'd still place Itachi in company with Rinne Obito and Nagato and KCM Minato.



When people say psuedo gods I think of Nagato tbh.


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## Trojan (Aug 21, 2018)

If itachi is not overrated, then no character is...

Reactions: Like 1


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## Ziggy Stardust (Aug 21, 2018)

I do think the very recent demoralisation of the Sannin camp, and the occurrence of those speaking out against them has something to do with me to be fair.

The poor cucks couldn't even debate Hebi Sasuke.


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## DaVizWiz (Aug 21, 2018)

Zero890 said:


> You have people who thinks that he can solo the Sannin, he can blitz KCM Naruto and break Frog Song, but you think that he is not overrated?


Name the users who said this.

I'll take a wild guess... it was either @Sage light or @Itachiisinvincible who claimed these points.

I know for a fact the breaking frog song was @Itachiisinvincible argument because I debated against him on it. He was the only one who said this.

You should know by his name alone that he is a bias debater when it comes to that character.


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## JuicyG (Aug 21, 2018)

DaVizWiz said:


> You're referring to radical arguments by one or two users, the Sannin are consistently backed by an entire fandom of debaters here in every thread they're in.



What statements have been generally made by Sannin debaters (not just 1 or 2 like you're saying with Itachi) that generate their view as overrated characters?


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## JuicyG (Aug 21, 2018)

ziggystardust said:


> When people say psuedo gods I think of Nagato tbh.



For me, a short example

God Tier

JJ Madara
JJ Obito
DMS Kakashi
8th Gate Gai

Pesudo God

Sm Hashirama VOTE
EMS Kurama Madara VOTE
BSM Naruto 
BM Minato

Top Tier

Rinne Obito 
Nagato 
KCM Minato 

etc 

High Kage

Pain
Minato
Itachi

etc


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## Zero890 (Aug 21, 2018)

DaVizWiz said:


> Name the users who said this.
> 
> I'll take a wild guess... it was either @Sage light or @Itachiisinvincible who claimed these points.
> 
> ...



Honestly i dont remember who said that Itachi can beat the Sannin (With SM Jiraiya) if i am not wrong was @Alita54.

And yes you already mentioned the others.


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## DaVizWiz (Aug 21, 2018)

JuicyG said:


> What statements have been generally made by Sannin debaters (not just 1 or 2 like you're saying with Itachi) that generate their view as overrated characters?


.

The *8th Gate* wasn't restricted.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Trojan (Aug 21, 2018)

DaVizWiz said:


> .
> 
> The *8th Gate* wasn't restricted.



Your thread is


> *Mindset*:* IC*, Kill



let's not act as if the 8th Gate is the first thing Gai would do.... 
Even JJ Obito was about to nuke everyone with his 4 TBBs, Gai still did not think of using the 8th Gate.


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## Ziggy Stardust (Aug 21, 2018)

JuicyG said:


> For me, a short example
> 
> God Tier
> 
> ...



I don't even put Itachi in the same tier as Pein. Base Minato, perhaps.


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## DaVizWiz (Aug 21, 2018)

Hussain said:


> Your thread is
> 
> 
> let's not act as if the 8th Gate is the first thing Gai would do....
> Even JJ Obito was about to nuke everyone with his 4 TBBs, Gai still did not think of using the 8th Gate.


Here's all the evidence you need @JuicyG


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## Zero890 (Aug 21, 2018)

DaVizWiz said:


> Just so we're clear... Gai survived to enter the 8th Gate against *Rinnegan Obito & 5 Super Jins*, *the Juubi*, and *Juubi Jinchuriki Madara*....
> 
> But the Sannin kill him before he uses it?
> 
> Here's all the evidence you need @JuicyG



Because he had BM Naruto,  Bee and Kakashi as backup  

He only have Kakashi in that fight.


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## DaVizWiz (Aug 21, 2018)

Zero890 said:


> Because he had BM Naruto,  Bee and Kakashi as backup
> 
> He only have Kakashi in that fight.


You're implying the Sannin contested by Edo Itachi are more likely to kill him than those opponents where Gai successfully entered the 8th Gate?


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## Trojan (Aug 21, 2018)

DaVizWiz said:


> Here's all the evidence you need @JuicyG


Could you please provide the manga chapter where IC Gai used 8th Gates right away against Sannin-level characters?

If not, then you are full of shit I am afraid. 

If you want him to do that, you should have said "OOC" not "IC" 
As simple as that.


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## DaVizWiz (Aug 21, 2018)

Hussain said:


> Could you please provide the manga chapter where IC Gai used 8th Gates right away against Sannin-level characters?
> 
> If not, then you are full of shit I am afraid.
> 
> ...


After reading this I couldn't be more satisfied with my choice in this thread.


DaVizWiz said:


> *Overrated*:
> 
> 1.
> 2.
> ...


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## Ziggy Stardust (Aug 21, 2018)

Zero890 said:


> Because he had BM Naruto,  Bee and Kakashi as backup
> 
> He only have Kakashi in that fight.



And he's only facing the Sannin. Not Obito + several Bijju with shared vision and Precognition. Regardless the finesse Kakashi showed with Kamui (warping a moving Naruto's Rasengan at high speed) means he can do so to the heads of either Tsunade or Jiraiya with little strain.


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## KBD (Aug 21, 2018)

Itachi and Minato are almost always overrated. 

And anyone on the other side is always underrated, doesn't matter who it is.

Works when they're up against each other too.. You know what a ratking is? Healthy Itachi vs Minato threads are like that but with wankers instead of rats.


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## Zero890 (Aug 21, 2018)

DaVizWiz said:


> You're implying the Sannin contested by Edo Itachi are more of a threat than those opponents where Gai successfully entered the 8th Gate?



Yes, because you forget the support he had in that battle, the only moment where he fought alone, Madara was only playing with him.

Hell even in front of six Path Madara he did not use the eight Gate...In a fight facing The Sannin and the others with intentions to kill he can still die before that because Madara>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the Sannin, Itachi and Kisame.


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## Trojan (Aug 21, 2018)

DaVizWiz said:


> After reading this I couldn't be more satisfied with my choice in this thread.


After reading this, I am sure you don't even know what "overrated" or "IC/OOC" even mean.


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## Ziggy Stardust (Aug 21, 2018)

Zero890 said:


> Yes, because you forget the support he had in that battle, the only moment where he fought alone, Madara was only playing with him.
> 
> Hell even in front of six Path Madara he did not use the eight Gate...In a fight facing The Sannin and the others with intentions to kill he can still die before that because Madara>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the Sannin, Itachi and Kisame.



The point is that he survived up until the stage where he did enter the 8th gate.


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## Zero890 (Aug 21, 2018)

ziggystardust said:


> And he's only facing the Sannin. Not Obito + several Bijju with shared vision and Precognition. Regardless the finesse Kakashi showed with Kamui (warping a moving Naruto's Rasengan at high speed) means he can do so to the heads of either Tsunade or Jiraiya with little strain.



While he try that, someone kills him and Gai.


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## Zero890 (Aug 21, 2018)

ziggystardust said:


> The point is that he survived up until the stage where he did enter the 8th gate.



Because the situation allowed it.


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## Ziggy Stardust (Aug 21, 2018)

Zero890 said:


> While he try that, someone kills him and Gai.



Load of crap. The activation process takes no time at all and the only known cool-down threshold is after using Kamui for five minutes consecutively.


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## DaVizWiz (Aug 21, 2018)

Hussain said:


> After reading this, I am sure you don't even know what "overrated" or "IC/OOC" even mean.


Now you're trolling.

Old habits die hard.

Remember when the entire dome laughed at your arguments on the daily when you first starting debating here?

And then you trolled in response? And then kept doing it until...

oh shit.. you're still doing it.

I laughed at your argument -> You trolled me.

Same ol' Hussain.


----------



## JuicyG (Aug 21, 2018)

DaVizWiz said:


> .
> 
> The *8th Gate* wasn't restricted.



Generally speaking, most people debate Gai as if 8th gate is restricted. Maybe they weren't seriously taking that into account. Much like how every Orochimaru thread is debated without thought of ET, because its 99% of the time restricted.

If that's not the case then I'd agree.


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## JuicyG (Aug 21, 2018)

ziggystardust said:


> I don't even put Itachi in the same tier as Pein. Base Minato, perhaps.



I'd actually would place Pain in the top tier section, it was just to illustrate a brief example of how strong the characters are up in those groups


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## King Ramirez (Aug 21, 2018)

Eliyua23 said:


> great at hand to hand , exceptional analyaticak minds , exceptional with hand seals , weaponry , fuinjutsu , both have had with FTG/Death Realer Seal , Totsuka/Genjutsu respectively all that overcompensates for lack of raw power and both to me were portrayed better on panel.



Exceptional analytical skills - Nagato isn't a slouch.
Weaponry -  Asura path >>
Fuinjutsu - Chibaku tensei >>

Nagato doesn't only have more raw power than those 2 but his abilities are even more broken. He may lack mobility but he doesn't need to move to defeat his opponents. Like I said Nagato should be a tier above alive minato and Itachi. Edo Itachi even with his quick thinking skills still needed Naruto and Bee's help.


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## Zero890 (Aug 21, 2018)

ziggystardust said:


> Load of crap. The activation process takes no time at all and the only known cool-down threshold is after using Kamui for five minutes consecutively.



Continue with whatever you want, I dont care, your hatred towards the Sannin is unjustified and that is what your opinion is based on.


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## Ishmael (Aug 21, 2018)

Shazam said:


> Hiruzen



Hype beast hiruzen is underrated?  Oh my.


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## Shazam (Aug 21, 2018)

Ishmael said:


> Hype beast hiruzen is underrated?  Oh my.



Yes. Old Hiruzen has been taking some low blow shots lately. 

He's easily mid kage tier. But gets treated like Hidan and Darui level many times.


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## Ishmael (Aug 21, 2018)

Overrated ~hiruzen  (pure hype) and Tsunade. The whole her growing heads back bull shit is just sad and she gets put up against people she has no business up against. People pull out of the ass arguments for her on the regular here.

Underrated ~Kakazu, has the hype , has  the feats unlike some and it can be argued he only lost due to plot. Which when this happens I tend to look at characters different and to me it indicates he was stronger than expected. But yeah kakazu.


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## Ishmael (Aug 21, 2018)

Shazam said:


> Yes. Old Hiruzen has been taking some low blow shots lately.



Like what? Not that I don't believe you with the state this place is in any things possible but.... hiruzen from what I see gets matched against people he has no business against.


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## Orochimaruwantsyourbody (Aug 21, 2018)

Ishmael said:


> Like what? Not that I don't believe you with the state this place is in any things possible but.... hiruzen from what I see gets matched against people he has no business against.


Like Kishi, who places him up against Juubito, Shinsuusenju, and Orochimaru with multiple Kage level Edo Tensei.


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## Trojan (Aug 21, 2018)

DaVizWiz said:


> Now you're trolling.
> 
> Old habits die hard.
> 
> ...



- Yeah, and I do know who turned out to be the idiots as well. 
I do remember how they were saying
1- BM Naruto defeat all 5 Villages put together, and I was the only one saying 8th Gates Gai is stronger than him
2- I do remember when they were saying BM Naruto & B's combined TBBs is stronger than what Minato could handle with his S/T barrier
3- I do remember when I was the only one arguing that Minato does have SM

and the list goes on. in short, they were laughing at their own ignorance. 

and no, I am not trolling. You don't know what you are talking about.
1- No one is saying "The Sannin will defeat 8th Gates Gai" (At least, I am not, I haven't read the posts in your thread).

the argument is you made it "IC" which means Gai does not use that Gate until his reason (or whatever its called) is on the line.
Had your backward thinking hold true, then Gai would have never been considered as "Kakashi's rival" because the 8th Gate would have always been taken as "Gai's true power" in the manga that is available to him at any time. Katuyu's wouldn't have said that team Gai will hold SM Naruto back if she was considering the 8th Gates to be a factor.

You made your thread "IC" and then complain if someone is talking about "IC"? 

Furthermore, you made your thread start with "7th Gates Gai"


> *Stipulations*: They all start in their strongest forms (Yamata, Byakugo, SM, MS, Fused Samehada, MS, 7th Gate), *Itachi is an Edo*



Which in fact makes Gai at even greater disadvantage if he does not use the 8th Gates right away because he will be extremely open
after his initial attack. like how he was after using it against Asspulldara. Examples:

1-


Gai afterword



Example 2:



Gai afterword



But of course you wouldn't consider any of that, now would you? 

7th Gates Gai literally has only 1 shot because he becomes extremely open. And you wouldn't tell us that
Kakashi can hold the 3 Sannin, itachi and Kisame on his own, now would you? ck



You can say the sannin are overrated IF someone said that they will "defeat" 8th Gates Gai.
Not if they are considering that the "8th Gates" might not even get the chance to come in the first place. ck



This is dumb as saying the "masters" and "itachi & kisame"
are overrated if someone said they will defeat Jiraiya because we should consider that Frog Song is already fired off
which they can do jack-shit against it. 


The 8th Gates can one-shot the opponents, and Frog Song can one-shot them as well.
It's not a matter of "the opponent will lose because they can't do something against X, Y, or Z"

In this case, it's about whether this X, Y, and Z will come in the first place or not.


It's not that hard, now is it? ck

Reactions: Like 3


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## Ishmael (Aug 21, 2018)

Orochimaruwantsyourbody said:


> Like Kishi, who places him up against Juubito, Shinsuusenju, and Orochimaru with multiple Kage level Edo Tensei.



Help and fought as a unit mostly against juubito. 

Simply bad match up for the old man. Still doesn't change what's been said by posters and who they match him up against.

Hiruzen is mostly hype and has here and there manga showing and feats.


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## Ishmael (Aug 21, 2018)

Oh and yeah tsunade made the list because well  there seems to be some who truly believe she can turn people into paste via punch.


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## JuicyG (Aug 21, 2018)

Ishmael said:


> Oh and yeah tsunade made the list because well  there seems to be some who truly believe she can turn people into paste via punch.



She can..to literally most of the verse. 90% of Naruto verse characters wouldn't survive a full strength punch by Tsunade.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Serene Grace (Aug 21, 2018)

Overrated: Hebi Sasuke, Itachi, Masters(all versions),  Minato, Jiraiya(at times) and Kimmimaro

Underrated: Tsunade, Hiruzen, Kisame, Nagato

Things to note:

- Out of all the lists I'd say masters are the worst. We've got to disgusting levels where people actially think Gai or Kakashi last two seconds against Nagato, or even DMS Kakashi beating RSM Naruto 

- While Itachi doesn't have as much fans, you'll get the occasional wanker saying he can pressure Obito or Nagato level characters.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Serene Grace (Aug 21, 2018)

Zero890 said:


> Im sure that no one said this shit.


Well I mean it is pretty common for Uchiha fans/Jiraiya salt downplayers to make shit up, so don't be suprised


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## Orochimaruwantsyourbody (Aug 21, 2018)

Its worth noting that the board is constantly changing and who is perceived as overrated often has a lagging effect. 

Jiraiya a few months ago had enough support that even I sometimes felt uncomfortable about it. Since then several new people have started posting (and I suspect some dups) who are all anti-Jiraiya.


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## DaVizWiz (Aug 21, 2018)

Hussain said:


> - Yeah, and I do know who turned out to be the idiots as well.
> I do remember how they were saying
> 1- BM Naruto defeat all 5 Villages put together, and I was the only one saying 8th Gates Gai is stronger than him
> 2- I do remember when they were saying BM Naruto & B's combined TBBs is stronger than what Minato could handle with his S/T barrier
> ...


That's a large wall of text wasted, as every point you made *I was already aware of when I laughed at your argument.*

The debate ended when you insulted my intelligence instead of debating like a reasonable person.

As is the case with virtually everyone you came into contact with since 011

How you lasted to 31,000 posts when I've seen a boatload of debaters far less disrespectful than you removed from the forum years ago is beyond me

Reactions: Like 1


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## Trojan (Aug 21, 2018)

DaVizWiz said:


> The debated ended when you insulted my intelligence instead of debating like a reasonable person.


When? 

You mentioned "when you were debating back in the days they were laughing at you"
when I said they are the ones who turned out to be the idiots I was referring to those people, not you. 

And the other point


> This is dumb as saying the "masters" and "itachi & kisame"


Again, I was talking about the comparison that you are making, not you. 
I attacked the argument.  It's not my fault if you don't differentiate between the argument and the debater.  




> That's a large wall of text wasted, as every point you made *I was already aware of*.


So, you are aware that people did not say "Sannin > 8th Gates Gai" but you said they are overrated because "they think Sannin > 8th Gates Gai" anyway?


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## DaVizWiz (Aug 21, 2018)

Hussain said:


> When?





Hussain said:


> After reading this, I am sure you don't even know what "overrated" or "IC/OOC" even mean.


You aren't even aware when you're insulting a person?

I've overestimated you... 

Troll more... GO HUSSAIN... TROLL MOORRREEEEEEE



You're not yet at your troll limit! More!



Can he troll further?! Is there no limit?!!


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## Trojan (Aug 21, 2018)

DaVizWiz said:


> You aren't even aware when you're insulting a person?
> 
> I've overestimated you...
> 
> ...



The fuck is this shit? 

Are you saying if someone does know something, then you are insulting their intelligence? 


Burden me, I wasn't aware that you are an All-Knowing God. I guess you know it all.


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## DaVizWiz (Aug 21, 2018)

Hussain said:


> The fuck is this shit?
> 
> Are you saying if someone does know something, then you are insulting their intelligence?
> 
> ...


I thought you reached your limit... but I was wrong.

There is no end to your trolling... until....

No... hussain... stop trolling.. NO YOU'LL-----


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## Trojan (Aug 21, 2018)

DaVizWiz said:


> I thought you reached your limit... but I was wrong.
> 
> There is no end to your trolling... until....
> 
> No... hussain... stop trolling.. NO YOU'LL-----


concession accepted.


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Aug 21, 2018)

Overrated: Jiraiya and Itachi. 

Underrated: Pain Rikudou.

Reactions: Like 1


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## DaVizWiz (Aug 21, 2018)

Hussain said:


> concession accepted.


It's still not over...how... he blew up the planet?!

NOOOO!!!! HUSSAIN JUST STOP FUCKING TROLLING!! PLEASE!!! 



THE FUCKING SUN?! NOOOO!


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Aug 21, 2018)

Hussain said:


> The fuck is this shit?
> 
> Are you saying if someone does know something, then you are insulting their intelligence?
> 
> ...



This ninja really can't see the irony.


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## Trojan (Aug 21, 2018)

Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> Overrated: Jiraiya and Itachi.
> 
> Underrated: Pain Rikudou.


No Minato?


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## Trojan (Aug 21, 2018)

DaVizWiz said:


> It's still not over...how... he blew up the planet?!
> 
> NOOOO!!!! HUSSAIN JUST STOP FUCKING TROLLING!! PLEASE!!!
> 
> ...



I actually started to question your IQ now tbh.


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## DaVizWiz (Aug 21, 2018)

Hussain said:


> I actually started to question your IQ now tbh.


THERE'S JUST NO END... AHHHHH!!!!



A WHOLE GALAXY.... NOOOOO!!!!! HE BLEW UP A GALAXY!

THE TROLL'S POWER NEVER STOPS GROWING

WILL HE EVER STOP INSULTING PEOPLE?

ONLY THE OWL KNOWS.



Mr. Owl.... do- 



HE BLEW THE OWL UP WITH MORE TROLLING!!! AHHH


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## Bookworm (Aug 21, 2018)

Overrated Tier List:

God Tier
Jiraiya, Minato

Everyone Else Tier:
Everyone Else


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## Gin Ichimaru's Shadow (Aug 21, 2018)

Overrated:
1.Itachi(beating Madz hype)
2.Minato(FTG hype. It's good, but not for top dogs of show like EMS Madara)

Underrated:
1.Hard to say.But honestly, many people can be underrated(Neji,Shika etc.). However, I would choose Old Hiruzen. He was quite strong(mid Kage level at least), but people show him as old, not-dangerous men . ^_^


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## Azula (Aug 22, 2018)

WorldsStrongest said:


> In the crossover section of this site, Itachi vs Galactus was also debated



Itachi vs Galactus is a meme tier debate, more of shit posting and trolling rather than serious arguing.

But even the regular serious arguments for Itachi are very much overrating him.

That's how we know he is overrated.


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Aug 22, 2018)

Hussain said:


> No Minato?



I was limited to 2 and you and one other poster being the remaining Minato fanboys doesn't outweigh the Jiraiya/Itachi fans I've seen lately.


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## WorldsStrongest (Aug 22, 2018)

Zero890 said:


> Im sure that no one said this shit.


Youre the wanker who did bud 

Jesus are you that delusional that you cant even recall your own bullshit


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## Ishmael (Aug 22, 2018)

If one things for sure the older itachi, sannin and kakashi fans presented themselves better then the ones now. They also were good debaters, i dont bother with most of the posters now, they lack the ability to be open minded period.


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## WorldsStrongest (Aug 22, 2018)

The Death & The Strawberry said:


> Overrated: Hebi Sasuke, Itachi, Masters(all versions), Minato, *Jiraiya*


Respect for being self aware


The Death & The Strawberry said:


> (at times)


Less respect for not committing to self awareness


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## Anza (Aug 22, 2018)

Overrated 
Kakuzu
Underrated
Small nations
Shino


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## SakuraLover16 (Aug 22, 2018)

I feel like Tsunade is usually underestimated compared to the other Sannin they are all still basically on the same teir with their trump cards and what not.
Sakura I feel is also sometimes underestimated and when she is it is usually criminally so.


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## WorldsStrongest (Aug 22, 2018)

Azula said:


> Itachi vs Galactus is a meme tier debate


 


Azula said:


> But even the regular serious arguments for Itachi are very much overrating him.


Again, itachi has legit 1 regular fan here who wanks him.

That doesn't constitute being overrated in a reasonable person's eyes.

The dude is actually regularly underestimated by the majority of posters here outside of that lone zealot. To the point every Kage level fighter can counter his entire arsenal.


Azula said:


> That's how we know he is overrated.


So because you dont agree with one guy whos a tad overzealous on the character, that makes the character overrated in general?

Because you can name one instance of bullshit in itachis favour?

Then sweetheart, i can do the same for every character on this board.

So either every character is overrated all the time, or this logic doesn't work.


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## WorldsStrongest (Aug 22, 2018)

@The Death & The Strawberry "optimistic" works, but i feel like "neutral" would be more fitting


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## Ziggy Stardust (Aug 22, 2018)

Tsunade is on the overrated list for sure.

It takes an ignorant person not to understand the context of the 5 Kage vs Madara saga, in which he was holding back, letting himself get hit by attacks he could have absorbed, testing the waters, until Onooki, not Tsunade, pushed him just a little too much. 

Regardless her endless regen is moot compared to a top tier who will take her on seriously. If said adversary has a brain cell, the will realize that stabbing attacks aren't going to settle the score, and might try something a little closer to limb removal, or decapitation. Which is why she's not worthy to kiss Hebi Sasuke's feet keeping in mind his Chidori Katana.

Reactions: Like 1


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## WorldsStrongest (Aug 22, 2018)

ziggystardust said:


> Tsunade is on the overrated list for sure.
> 
> It takes an ignorant person not to understand the context of the 5 Kage vs Madara saga, in which he was holding back, letting himself get hit by attacks he could have absorbed, testing the waters, until Onooki, not Tsunade, pushed him just a little too much.
> 
> Regardless her endless regen is moot compared to a top tier who will take her on seriously. If said adversary has a brain cell, the will realize that stabbing attacks aren't going to settle the score, and might try something a little closer to limb removal, or decapitation. Which is why she's not worthy to kiss Hebi Sasuke's feet keeping in mind his Chidori Katana.


Regarding Hebi, shes also never tagging the kid who could react to point blank V1 Killer Bee speeds while Sasuke was wounded.

And in base, not CS.

Not when she doesnt have a feint to her name nor is she even vaguely known for nuanced combat style or deception tactics.


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## Zero890 (Aug 22, 2018)

WorldsStrongest said:


> Youre the wanker who did bud
> 
> Jesus are you that delusional that you cant even recall your own bullshit




That's why I quote you, you seem to understand nothing. 

I NEVER said that Goemon was more powerful than FRS that is what you interpreted because you wanted it because I perfectly explain what I said.


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## Ishmael (Aug 22, 2018)

SakuraLover16 said:


> are all still basically on the same teir with their trump cards and what not.



Sooo.....hold on you think she's on par with an unrestricted oro?



Anza said:


> Kakuzu



Explain why you have him here, I'm interested.

Also can someone please explain how many times and why you view them hebi Sasuke as overrated...


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## WorldsStrongest (Aug 22, 2018)

Zero890 said:


> That's why I quote you, you seem to understand nothing.


Oh wow

"I know you are but what am i" retorts

Was unaware i was talking to a 4th grader 


Zero890 said:


> I NEVER said that Goemon was more powerful than FRS


You blatantly said Goemon was capable of killing something that FRS couldnt

Regardless of how much you say "hurr I explained it perfectly durr" that is an asinine premise.


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## Zero890 (Aug 22, 2018)

WorldsStrongest said:


> Oh wow
> 
> "I know you are but what am i" retorts
> 
> Was unaware i was talking to a 4th grader







WorldsStrongest said:


> You blatantly said Goemon was capable of killing something that FRS couldnt
> 
> Regardless of how much you say "hurr I explained it perfectly durr" that is an asinine premise.



different properties, that does not mean it's stronger and that's what you want to think about and then say: "duhh Jman is overrated because someone said Goemon is more powerful than FRS" 

Just looking for something to complain about Jman, the usual in you the guy who only complains. 

Chidori and Amaterasu-> which is more powerful? Ama obviously by portrayal, have the same properties? no, they dont. One burns and the other pierces.

Well, I can not hope for you to understand but I made the effort.


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## Santoryu (Aug 22, 2018)

Some people think Tsunade can regrow a head


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Aug 22, 2018)

Zero890 said:


> Just looking for something to complain about Jman, the usual in you the guy who only complains.



Can't complain about the Jman to the guy who thinks Jiraiya is superior to Pain Rikudou, Itachi and Orochimaru.


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## Zero890 (Aug 22, 2018)

Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> Can't complain about the Jman to the guy who thinks Jiraiya is superior to Pain Rikudou, Itachi and Orochimaru.



Don't deny the canon 

Besides you are the guy who alsays complain about the Jman/Minato fans


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Aug 22, 2018)

Zero890 said:


> Don't deny the canon
> 
> Besides you are the guy who alsays complain about the Jman/Minato fans



Well, Sage Zero890, its because Jiraiya and Minato fans, like Itachi fans, can't interpret canon and complain when they're called out. I'm fact, I've got an Itachi fan in a number of threads (the Itachi fan version of you) getting mad because of canon facts presented to him.


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## Zero890 (Aug 22, 2018)

Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> its because Jiraiya and Minato fans, like Itachi fans, can't interpret canon and complain when they're called out.



I already expected you to say this Munboy


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Aug 22, 2018)

Zero890 said:


> I already expected you to say this Munboy



There's not much more you can use to define those fandoms.


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## Ziggy Stardust (Aug 22, 2018)

Munboy's wanking of Nagato has some merit at times and he's pushing his luck at others.


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## Zero890 (Aug 22, 2018)

@Munboy Dracule O'Brian I already suspected you were a Nagato fan


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Aug 22, 2018)

ziggystardust said:


> Munboy's wanking of Nagato has some merit at times and he's pushing his luck at others.





Zero890 said:


> @Munboy Dracule O'Brian I already suspected you were a Nagato fan



That's Rinnegan fan to you.


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## JuicyG (Aug 22, 2018)

Changed my mind.

*Overrated: *


All Forms of Jiraiya; Pervy, Base, SM - you name it
All forms of Orochimaru; Sick, Healthy, with Edo Tensei - you name it, son
All forms of Tsuande; Rusty afraid of blood, WA Arc, as the Hokage - just give the word!
These chumps aren't worth the time of day against any Kage level opponent. We need to start seeing what the manga was intended to show us. That the Sannin was just a group of ninja who got famous across the world for no  good reason. 


*Underrated: *

All forms of Itachi; Kid, Anbu, MS, Edo
Itachi has shown me that he is a true pseudo God-Tier. He can take out Hashirama 50/50, he can contend with Nagato and Pain and win more times than not if he's healthy. We've been overlooking Itachi far too much and haven't been giving him the credit his character and fan base deserve.


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## Ziggy Stardust (Aug 22, 2018)

JuicyG said:


> Changed my mind.
> 
> *Overrated: *
> 
> ...



At least you manage to feign a sense of humour behind the tears


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## JuicyG (Aug 22, 2018)

ziggystardust said:


> At least you manage to feign a sense of humour behind the tears



Tears? Humor? What are those...

This is about being honest, objective, debaters of the manga. I've just simply seen the light. Sage Light that is.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Ziggy Stardust (Aug 22, 2018)

JuicyG said:


> I've just simply seen the light. Sage Light that is.

Reactions: Like 1


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## King1 (Aug 22, 2018)

You guys should leave sannin fans alone, not all of them are wanking the sannins, it's just the minority that is giving them a bad name


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## Serene Grace (Aug 22, 2018)

Santoryu said:


> Some people think Tsunade can regrow a head


- Some people think 6 gated guy is faster than V2 Ay

- Some people think Kakashi can beat Nagato

- Some people think either 7 gated guy and Kakashi can solo the sannin

- Some people think DMS Kakashi is stronger than Kaguya, RSM Naruto and Rinnegan Sasuke


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## Alita (Aug 22, 2018)

Overrated: Jiraiya by a massive margin. Also base minato. 

Underrated: Kakuzu. Tho I could list multiple others as well.


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## JuicyG (Aug 22, 2018)

Alita54 said:


> Overrated: Jiraiya by a massive margin.



Couldn't agree more. The sannin aren't even kage level yet people prentend that the name "sannin" matters. What a joke.


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## The_Conqueror (Aug 22, 2018)

JuicyG said:


> Couldn't agree more. The sannin aren't even kage level yet people prentend that the name "sannin" matters. What a joke.


Sanin are not  kage level   

One became a Kage 

One lead a village and wasnot chosen for a kage because of his behaviour 

Other turned down the position of kage 


Well don't care if you are just trolling


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## Gianfi (Aug 22, 2018)

JuicyG said:


> Couldn't agree more. The sannin aren't even kage level yet people prentend that the name "sannin" matters. What a joke.


You Uchiha wankers are everywhere, we are doomed


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## JuicyG (Aug 22, 2018)

Gianfi said:


> You Uchiha wankers are everywhere, we are doomed



…. Itachi is nagato level (or above). He has no business even being mentioned in the same thread as chumps like the Sannin who are barely Kage levels.


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## JuicyG (Aug 22, 2018)

The_Conqueror said:


> Sanin are not  kage level
> 
> One became a Kage
> 
> ...



Maybe I took it to far, but I'll be lenient and say they are all around low-kage levels, like Rasa and Darui at best


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## Ishmael (Aug 22, 2018)

JuicyG said:


> Itachi is nagato level (or above)



Uhmm... Nagato is usually associated with the tier known as the gateway to God tier. Itachi is an high kage at best, he's pein level yeah but not nagato.


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## JuicyG (Aug 22, 2018)

Ishmael said:


> Uhmm... Nagato is usually associated with the tier known as the gateway to God tier. Itachi is an high kageat best, he's pein level yeah but not nagato.



Seriously? Stop underrating Itachi for once, you Sannin wankers are out of control anymore. Itachi is at _least_ on par with Nagato (healthy) while living and as an Edo he'd beat him convincingly


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## Ishmael (Aug 22, 2018)

JuicyG said:


> Seriously? Stop underrating Itachi for once, you Sannin wankers are out of control anymore. Itachi is at _least_ on par with Nagato (healthy) while living and as an Edo he'd beat him convincingly



Sannin wankers? Lmfao did you not read this thread? I haven't been on the sannin side at all. They have nothing to do with itachi and Nagato as well. Nagato is out of itachi's league and that's facts.


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## JuicyG (Aug 22, 2018)

Ishmael said:


> I haven't been on the sannin side at all.



Well at least were in agreement with the Sannin. They are barely even Kage level and people love to wank them and underrate Itachi.


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## Ishmael (Aug 22, 2018)

JuicyG said:


> Well at least were in agreement with the Sannin. They are barely even Kage level and people love to wank them and underrate Itachi.



Yeah you're on your own....oro, Jiraiya and tsunade are kage level. I don't know if you troll often but it's not funny nor cute.. you look dumb.


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## JuicyG (Aug 22, 2018)

Ishmael said:


> Yeah you're on your own....oro, Jiraiya and tsunade are kage level. I don't know if you troll often but it's not funny nor cute.. you look dumb.



Come on man. We all know that the Sannin get wanked too much. But we don't talk about how much Itachi gets underrated.


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## King Ramirez (Aug 22, 2018)

JuicyG said:


> eriously? Stop underrating Itachi for once, you Sannin wankers are out of control anymore. Itachi is at _least_ on par with Nagato (healthy) while living and as an Edo he'd beat him convincingly




The Itachi wankers at it again. Alive Itachi Nagato level? Hahahahahahah.

Look, let me tell you something.

Alive Itachi is MS Sasuke Level and Edo Itachi is KCM Naruto level. Nagato is much stronger than even Edo Itachi.


Nagato
*----Gap-----*
KCM Naruto/Edo Itachi/ EMS Sasuke
*----Gap------*
Living Itachi/MS Sasuke/SM Jiraiya


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## Ishmael (Aug 22, 2018)

JuicyG said:


> Itachi gets underrated.



Lol.


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## JuicyG (Aug 22, 2018)

Ishmael said:


> Lol.





King Ramirez said:


> The Itachi wankers at it again. Alive Itachi Nagato level? Hahahahahahah.
> 
> Look, let me tell you something.
> 
> ...



Shhh (I'm mirroring what NBD apparently thinks about Sannin and Itachi)


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## King Ramirez (Aug 22, 2018)

JuicyG said:


> Shhh (I'm mirroring what NBD apparently thinks about Sannin and Itachi)


Ohh Okay.


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## SakuraLover16 (Aug 22, 2018)

Ishmael said:


> Sooo.....hold on you think she's on par with an unrestricted oro?


No sweetheart the Sannin all have a technique they can use on the fly (not ET) Orochi has Yamata, Jiraiya has SM, and Tsunade has Byakugou these techniques keep them on the same general level, of course, they also have their bad matchups due to fighting style but that does not put them on different tiers from each other.


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## Ishmael (Aug 22, 2018)

SakuraLover16 said:


> No sweetheart the Sannin all have a technique they can use on the fly (not ET) Orochi has Yamata, Jiraiya has SM, and Tsunade has Byakugou these techniques keep them on the same general level, of course, they also have their bad matchups due to fighting style but that does not put them on different tiers from each other.



An unrestricted oro is generally seen as one with ET to his disposal, yamata is strong but you listed the sannin with their strongest techs. Yamata is not oro's strongest, snake related it is but overall that belongs to ET.


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## SakuraLover16 (Aug 22, 2018)

Ishmael said:


> An unrestricted oro is generally seen as one with ET to his disposal, yamata is strong but you listed the sannin with their strongest techs. Yamata is not oro's strongest, snake related it is but overall that belongs to ET.


Yes but ET also requires prep on his part and it isn't something he can just throw out unless the necessary requirements have been met (Finding DNA, Sacrificing people; something he can't just make appear out of thin air) Yamata has tons of things going for it while in that form he can really only be killed by being sealed not to mention the poisons and whatnot in his body that can be released when he is burnt and all not to mention that he becomes a huge monstrosity.


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## Ishmael (Aug 22, 2018)

I don't see oro with yamata on par with Jiraiya with SM. Or tsunade with byakugou.


SakuraLover16 said:


> Yes but ET also requires prep on his part





SakuraLover16 said:


> Jiraiya has SM,



Jiraiya SM requires prep as well, but I do agree with and get what you're saying no ET involved then yes the sannin are on par.


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## SakuraLover16 (Aug 22, 2018)

Ishmael said:


> I don't see oro with yamata on par with Jiraiya with SM. Or tsunade with byakugou.


I understand what you are saying but the issue I think the fandom is going through is that they see Sage Mode as too big of a boost (Don't get me wrong it is but it doesn't put him tiers ahead of them if they also have their trump cards activated the gap should then be minimal). Remember it is said that Orochi is stronger than Jiraiya (I could be wrong) and Jiraiya even says Tsunade is unrivaled in combat and medical ninjutsu which is why I have them all pretty even except ET Orochi. 


Ishmael said:


> iraiya SM requires prep as well, but I do agree with and get what you're saying no ET involved then yes the sannin are on par.


Yeah Jiraiya needs prep too but he doesn't have to sacrifice ninjas and goats like Orochi does he just needs to sit still for a moment which with his summons is easy to do.


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## Buuhan (Aug 23, 2018)

Overrated

Hebi Sasuke 
Kimmimaro 
Underrated

Kakashi


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## WorldsStrongest (Aug 23, 2018)

OP should have asked people to provide specific examples of why they think X is over/underrated 

Cuz usually when people bitch about Hebi Sasuke being overrated, i have to laugh because usually its a fucking endeavor just to get the majority of people on this forum to concede the kids FEATS actually happened...

Genuinely the only character i have ever seen get denied his on panel showings regularly. Seriously it to the point that one of these days im sure theres gonna be a thread asking "Can Hebi Sasuke REALLY use Chidori?" inb4 a passive aggressive thread and memeing with that one btw.

Its probably just Sannin butthurt and them being a tad upset Hebi can fight the Sannin on relatively equal ground...Hed lose...But that doesnt mean he cant contest them. Yet apparently even that triggers kids around here. Thats how you know youve got problems.


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## Mawt (Aug 26, 2018)

DaVizWiz said:


> I know for a fact the breaking frog song was @Itachiisinvincible argument because I debated against him on it. He was the only one who said this.
> 
> You should know by his name alone that he is a bias debater when it comes to that character.


Fyi, my name is irony. I like Itachi, but I won't say he'll win against somebody such as Nagato or KCM Minato or anything like that. 

And for breaking out of Frog Song, I said it might be POSSIBLE he can resist it to a degree and possibly break out. 

The only methods I said which would allow Itachi to almost certainly break out are by using external pain (no proof that Frog Song can't be broken this way, like a majority of Genjutsu can be broken this way), or by casting a Genjutsu on himself, which was proven to work on Tayuya's Genjutsu.


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## MSAL (Aug 27, 2018)

*Overrated*


I never used to think so, but Gai is now getting overrated a lot to the point his base and lower gate forms can now compete with most high kage opponents. His 8th gate is god like, but it's a highly contextual usage.
Jiraiya - Again, I never used to think he was overrated, even with the old Itachi-Jiraiya wars. It was just fun banter. Now most of the representation for the former have gone, Jiraiya is getting highly overrated in a lot of his recent battle threads.

*Underrated
*

I actually think Onoki is still underrated. His arsenal is fit for both attack and defense, and despite his age being a weakness, he is still not only courageous, but his toughness is highly impressive.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Shazam (Aug 27, 2018)

MSAL said:


> *Overrated*
> 
> 
> I never used to think so, but Gai is now getting overrated a lot to the point his base and lower gate forms can now compete with most high kage opponents. His 8th gate is god like, but it's a highly contextual usage.
> ...



Meanwhile Itachi is being discussed as stronger than Nagato in a couple current threads .. And nobody bats an eye. ...


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## MSAL (Aug 27, 2018)

Shazam said:


> Meanwhile Itachi is being discussed as stronger than Nagato in a couple current threads .. And nobody bats an eye. ...



By a couple of people, not a fandom anymore. Just because x is stronger than y, should people not discuss ways in which the the supposed weaker shinobi can win, if it's viable and not retarded?

What's the fucking point of having any vs threads if that isn't the case?

Plus, if you're butthurt over me putting Jiraiya in the overrated category, come and tell me why, instead of just spamming the disagree button, please. Or is that just because of your continued crusade of undermining Itachi to the point the Ramen guy one shots him?


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## Shazam (Aug 27, 2018)

MSAL said:


> By a couple of people, not a fandom anymore. Just because x is stronger than y, should people not discuss ways in which the the supposed weaker shinobi can win, if it's viable and not retarded?
> 
> What's the fucking point of having any vs threads if that isn't the case?
> 
> Plus, if you're butthurt over me putting Jiraiya in the overrated category. Come and tell me why, instead of just spamming the disagree button, please. Or is that just because of your continued crusade of undermining Itachi to the point the Ramen guy one shots him?



It's not viable at all to even remotely suggest Itachi is superior to Nagato. 

And u just generalized your reason for who you placed in your overrated category. What has been said lately by the general consensus about Jman that shows he's getting overrated like Itachi against Nagato?


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## MSAL (Aug 27, 2018)

Shazam said:


> It's not viable at all to even remotely suggest Itachi is superior to Nagato.



I said win, not superior. And yes, Itachi can beat Pain under the correct conditions.



> And u just generalized your reason for who you placed in your overrated category.



I gave a brief reason, yes. I'm not going to write an essay, what's the point?



> What has been said lately by the general consensus about Jman that shows he's getting overrated like Itachi against Nagato?



How about Jman being superior to Kabuto for one.


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## Leaf Hurricane (Aug 27, 2018)

MSAL said:


> . Or is that just because of your continued crusade of undermining Itachi to the point the Ramen guy one shots him?


Take that back!!!!
Ramen Guy  One Shots everyone. 
His name is Teuchi Ichiraku.. Remember it.


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## Leaf Hurricane (Aug 27, 2018)

Sannin and MS fanboys always go for each others throats. One day the other wanks the worst and vice versa. Both are wanked vigorously.
There are people who attribute MS Madara level feats to hebi sasuke because both are uchiha. And there are people who relate SM naruto  feats to SM Jiraiaya, which isn't the case.


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## MSAL (Aug 27, 2018)

PradyumnaR said:


> Take that back!!!!
> Ramen Guy  One Shots everyone.
> His name is Teuchi Ichiraku.. Remember it.




Fair enough, I forgot about how op he is

Reactions: Like 1


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## Leaf Hurricane (Aug 27, 2018)

MSAL said:


> Fair enough, I forgot about how op he is


Ramen Guy one shots Batman with prep time...


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## Shazam (Aug 27, 2018)

MSAL said:


> I said win, not superior. And yes, Itachi can beat Pain under the correct conditions.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Nobody said Jman is superior to SM Kabuto. 
I was referring to Nagato, not pain, I literally said Nagato. If I meant the paths I would have said so. Even so, people are literally saying Itachi > Nagato. 
Jiraiya has been getting more down play than being underrated lately. People saying Hebi Sasuke beats him, Kisame beats him etc. On the other hand Itachi has been severely overrated saying things like his Tsukuyomi would beat Hashirama and he could 1v1 Nagato (not pain )


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## Zero890 (Aug 27, 2018)

Shazam said:


> Nobody said Jman is superior to SM Kabuto.



In fact Hussain does it, however not many people think that.



MSAL said:


> By a couple of people, not a fandom anymore



Therefore it is equal to this friend, by a couple of people, not a fandom anymore.


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## MSAL (Aug 27, 2018)

Shazam said:


> Nobody said Jman is superior to SM Kabuto.




I've seen people like Hussain say it. However, even if I uphold that as an example of overrated, if the person has a convincing argument, rather than a retarded one, then I'm always thinking fair enough.




> I was referring to Nagato, not pain, I literally said Nagato. If I meant the paths I would have said so. Even so, people are literally saying Itachi > Nagato.



Then those people should be ignored. However, also see above about convincing arguments.




> Jiraiya has been getting more down play than being underrated lately.



I don't see that tbh. Itachi fanbase has disappeared compared to what it used to be, and as such you always see the Jiraiya fanbase, or a lot of the fanbase, interjecting in Itachi themed threads and then the fan wars begin anew. Jiraiya is now the centre of attention for threads.



> People saying Hebi Sasuke beats him, Kisame beats him etc. On the other hand Itachi has been severely overrated saying things like his Tsukuyomi would beat Hashirama and he could 1v1 Nagato (not pain )



That's funny, because I see a lot of threads where Itachi goes against same tier or lower tier opponents and he always gets low diffed or destroyed by then according to the consensus. Recently i'm seeing people saying Gai can solo him. Jiraiya is still consistently supported by the Uzumaki fan base in general.




Zero890 said:


> In fact Hussain does it, however not many people think that.



Hussain sometimes makes points, sometimes not. Depends what mood he's in.





> Therefore it is equal to this friend, by a couple of people, not a fandom anymore.


 He get's a lot more support than Itachi these days.


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## Trojan (Aug 27, 2018)

MSAL said:


> Hussain sometimes makes points, sometimes not.


I made my argument to why I think SM Jiraiya > SM Kabuto. People started raging at me, and when I tell them to counter my points, they don't. I have yet to see anyone who is willing to argue against me in Kabuto Vs Jiraiya.

in their mind "Kabuto is stronger just because ...." 

With that being said, disregarding this one....

Jiraiya is only compared to the likes of itachi, Kisame, other Sannin, or Edo Kages for the most part.
Which should be fairly reasonable. Since some of which he had already been compared with them directly or fought against them directly (itachi, Kisame, Konan, and Pain for example)


I haven't seen (as far as I remember) some stuff like Jiraiya Vs JJ Obito, Asspulldara, Hashirama...etc etc

and yet, for some reason, people would say he is overrated even if you compare him to Hidan or Zetsu.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Shazam (Aug 27, 2018)

MSAL said:


> I've seen people like Hussain say it. However, even if I uphold that as an example of overrated, if the person has a convincing argument, rather than a retarded one, then I'm always thinking fair enough.
> Then those people should be ignored. However, also see above about convincing arguments.
> 
> 
> ...



Having more or less support isn't the theme of being over or underrated. It's whether or not the BD generally views a character much too strong or much too weak then what they should be


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## Leaf Hurricane (Aug 27, 2018)

MSAL said:


> I've seen people like Hussain say it. However, even if I uphold that as an example of overrated, if the person has a convincing argument, rather than a retarded one, then I'm always thinking fair enough.
> Then those people should be ignored. However, also see above about convincing arguments.
> 
> 
> ...


The fact that people have posted fighting methods for characters like gai and kakashi and oro to beat itachi is not taken too well because the general itachi fan puts him in a tier far above than he is. This makes them closed to the notion that anyone like Gai could beat him. Even if you present a tactic that lets said character beat itachi, they will not consider because it is against manga and ooc or some shit.
It is borderline blasphemy if you say gai or kakashi can beat itachi because the fans put itachi way higher than he should be. Itachi fans are like the ardent batman fanboys. They just cant even digest the fact that anything can happen in a fight apart from finger gen gg or ama gg. Itachi has all possibilities open but the opponent will alwaysbfight the way he did in the manga vs some unrelated opponent. This makes itachi fan boys the undisputed in terms of overrating a character.


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## Ziggy Stardust (Aug 27, 2018)

Regarding the Jiraya Fanbase in the Hebi Sasuke debate. The Jiraya camp was acting like a hive-mind, hell bend on protecting their monarch from nuanced criticism. When their attempts at comparing his _parallels to Itachi_ didn't work (he's much more comparable to Oro in this case) the feats argument consisted of either giving him abilties he simply doesn't have, or boosting those abilties to a level never shown - including giving his base iteration Sage Mode feats. For example :

Claiming his Wilds Lion Mane would be fast enough to ensnare Sasuke. Even though Pain's animal path could substitute himself faster than Jiraya could see _without_ advanced precognition

Claiming Jiraya could use many of his techniques without hand seals, simply because those hand seals - and his entire body - weren't included in the panel while said techniques were activated

Claiming he could use most of his arsenal whilst prepping for Sage Mode, and simply let Gamaken get beaten to pulp while being disarmed of his staff and shield, doing nothing to help his Toad

Claiming Jman's hair would protect him against the Chidori Sharp Spear

Claiming that that Yomi Numa was more quickly activated than genjutsulol

Claiming Jiraya knew about the eye contact method, despite looking right at Itachi's face and Orochimaru, his more knowledgable peer, having been caught in a sharingan genjutsu​
If you don't want Hebi Sasuke vs Jiraya to become a popular opinion, the quality in argument certainly needs to contain more precise logic. As it stands, Sasuke can defend against the complete sum of Jiraya's arsenal and even use many of his own tools and techniques against him - Frog summons can do his bidding before Jiraya even knows they're in a genjutsu, and all of jiraya's fire based techs are prep for Kirin. These facts alone make kirin a greater possibility than JIraya ever entering Sage mode.

Reactions: Like 4


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## Shazam (Aug 27, 2018)

ziggystardust said:


> Regarding the Jiraya Fanbase in the Hebi Sasuke debate. The Jiraya camp was acting like a hive-mind, hell bend on protecting their monarch from nuanced criticism. When their attempts at comparing his _parallels to Itachi_ didn't work (he's much more comparable to Oro in this case) the feats argument consisted of either giving him abilties he simply doesn't have, or boosting those abilties to a level never shown - including giving his base iteration Sage Mode feats. For example :
> 
> Claiming his Wilds Lion Mane would be fast enough to ensnare Sasuke. Even though Pain's animal path could substitute himself faster than Jiraya could see _without_ advanced precognition
> 
> ...



What your are describing or trying to at least can be seen in Itachi threads. The difference is people tend to pick at Jiraiya's case far more often then they bother doing the same to Itachi when similar shit happens

Check the Itachi vs Gai thread.  Despite the points made the opposite side would ignore them and just give the tier list no jutsu like usual


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## Leaf Hurricane (Aug 27, 2018)

Shazam said:


> What your are describing or trying to at least can be seen in Itachi threads. The difference is people tend to pick at Jiraiya's case far more often then they bother doing the same to Itachi when similar shit happens
> 
> Check the Itachi vs Gai thread.  Despite the points made the opposite side would ignore them and just give the tier list no jutsu like usual


It's an ongoing thing in itachi threads. Bo other character is supposed to usebtheir skills differently than shown on panel, but itachi can because he can do that even if it wasn't shown.


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