# Minato vs Immortals (Hidan & Kakuzu)



## Itachі (Nov 26, 2014)

*Location:* Jiraiya vs Pein 

*Distance:* 50 metres

*Knowledge:* Full for Immortals Duo, none for Minato.

*Mindset:* IC

*Restrictions:* Minato only has _one_ Hiraishin kunai, Kyubi is a non-factor.

*Scenario 2:* Hiraishin is restricted.


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## Empathy (Nov 26, 2014)

Is Minato allowed to mark anything else?


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## Itachі (Nov 26, 2014)

Minato is allowed to mark other things, yes. He's not allowed to mark any of his tools though.


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## Flappy (Nov 26, 2014)

Hidan gets outright blitzed with pure foot speed and Minato cuts his head off with one of his clones.

Minato makes 5 clones and engages Kakuzu in CQC. He uses Hiraishin Goshun Mawashi 
 and swaps with his clones instead of Hiraishin marks. He can cut through Kakuzu's tendrils with his Kunai seeing how he pierced Obito's Mokuton half with it []
 He summons the Boss Toads and overhelms Kakuzu.

Kakuzu's Katon gets countered via Gamabunta's Suiton: Teppōdama. Food Cart Destroyer squashes him. 
Kakuzu's elemental attacks get dodged via Hiraishin Goshun Mawashi which is used in conjunction with clones. He is still crazy fast even without Hiraishin.

Or Hiraishin barrier teleports them back at Kakuzu once he marks him. Gamabunta can jump high enough if his masks fly. Minato is a sensor and can sense Kakuzu's hearts which store chakra for him. His Rasengan is the size of Naruto's Oodama Rasengan. With sensing he targets the hearts and blasts them with Rasengan.


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## Icegaze (Nov 26, 2014)

Hirashin clone swap is level 3? Since when 
Minato wins 
Unbalanced match


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## Itachі (Nov 26, 2014)

Flappy said:


> Hidan gets outright blitzed with pure foot speed and Minato cuts his head off with one of his clones.
> 
> Minato makes 5 clones and engages Kakuzu in CQC. He uses FTG Level 3 and swaps with his clones instead of Hiraishin marks. He can cut through Kakuzu's tendrils with his Kunai seeing how he pierced Obito's Mokuton half with it [] He summons the Boss Toads and overhelms Kakuzu.
> 
> ...



I don't think that Minato's going to take clones out against two opponents when he has no knowledge on them. He never did that against Iwa Nin during the Third Shinobi War. It's unusual for him to make clones like that. 

Minato with no knowledge isn't going to try and decapitate Hidan either.

However, I can see Minato taking out his clones if he realises that normal means won't work against these opponents.


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## Flappy (Nov 26, 2014)

Icegaze said:


> Hirashin clone swap is level 3? Since when
> Minato wins
> Unbalanced match



 my bad. I always thought and got used to referring Hiraishin Goshun Mawashi as Level 3
 until the 4th Datebook revealed it's just  fancy continuous swapping on marked kunais. 

Going to edit the first sentence now.


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## Flappy (Nov 26, 2014)

Itachі said:


> I don't think that Minato's going to take clones out against two opponents when he has no knowledge on them. He never did that against Iwa Nin during the Third Shinobi War. It's unusual for him to make clones like that.



If he is restricted to one kunai he will need versatility that's why he created the kunai marking method.
In absence of spreading kunai he spreads his clones.



> Minato with no knowledge isn't going to try and decapitate Hidan either.



He tries the first slash like he did to Obito. Tries the second. 
Figures out just slashing his body won't cut it and slashes his head.



> However, I can see Minato taking out his clones if he realises that normal means won't work against these opponents.



Exactly my point. Read above.


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## Itachі (Nov 26, 2014)

Flappy said:


> If he is restricted to one kunai he will need versatility that's why he created the kunai marking method.
> In absence of spreading kunai he spreads his clones.



Ah, fair enough.



> He tries the first slash like he did to Obito. Tries the second.
> Figures out just slashing his body won't cut it and slashes his head.



I don't really think Minato would realise that Hidan isn't dying though, it's not like people die instantly from stab wounds.


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## Flappy (Nov 26, 2014)

Itachі said:


> Ah, fair enough.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't really think Minato would realise that Hidan isn't dying though, it's not like people die instantly from stab wounds.




He eventually figures it out. Hidan can't take him by surprise and get his blood seeing how his reflexes are on par with v2 Ay []. 
He reacted to Obito's Kamui from behind and attacked him before Obito could land his hand. 

He physically reacted and threw a Kunai before someone as fast as v2 Ay could punch him.[x]
So someone as slow as Hidan isn't taking him by surprise.


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## Itachі (Nov 26, 2014)

Flappy said:


> He eventually figures it out. Hidan can't take him by surprise and get his blood seeing how his reflexes are on par with v2 Ay [].
> He reacted to Obito's Kamui from behind and attacked him before Obito could land his hand.
> 
> He physically reacted and threw a Kunai before someone as fast as v2 Ay could punch him.[x]
> So someone as slow as Hidan isn't taking him by surprise.



Not saying that Hidan will take him by surprise, just that Minato won't immediately know that Hidan's going to die. Kakuzu could easily take advantage of Hidan's immortality and fire a Futon enhanced Katon at Minato and Hidan. 

Doesn't Ei have better reflexes than Minato?


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## Empathy (Nov 26, 2014)

Unrestricted Minato would have a pretty hard time killing a durable immortal like Kakuzu. Kakuzu survived base Naruto's _Fuuton: Rasenshuriken_, so Minato's normal _Rasengan_ probably wouldn't do much to _Doton: Domu_. Eventually, he could redirect _Raiton: Gian_ with his _Jikuukan Kekkai_ to kill his doton heart, but that's only if he's ever able to deduce that Kakuzu's hardening technique is doton. Kakashi needed the sharingan to read the doton seal of his full-body hardening, so I don't think it would happen here when Minato has no knowledge. We've never seen any of Minato's raiton, so I don't think it's relevant. He'd have to strike before Kakuzu can react, which is possible, but more difficult with _Hirashin_ limited. _Rasen Senkou Chou Rinbukou Sanshiki_ would be extraordinarily useful in creating an opening; it would at least demand that Kakuzu utilize his full-body _Domu_. But it's restricted here as Minato's only permitted one kunai. He could try to incapacitate Kakuzu with _Yatai Kuzushi_ like Chouji did. But butterfly Chouji can exert far more force than boss summons, and they had to weaken Kakuzu first. 

With _domu_, his large _Jiongu_ tendrils, and his other elemental ninjutsu, Minato is more likely to hurt his boss summon. Kakuzu was also able to withstand the Nibi stomping on him in base. Even if he does find some way around _Domu_, Minato's still got to kill Kakuzu four more times. Most of Kakuzu's ninjutsu are projectiles, which is bad because Minato can redirect it all. If Hidan is decapitated, Kakuzu can just stick his head back on, so that's good. Minato doesn't have any knowledge of Hidan's technique or immortality, but it's still highly unlikely he could cause Minato to bleed. Albeit, if Kakuzu manages to get a drop of his blood, then it could work. Kakuzu and Hidan playing possum with their immortality would be their best chance at acquiring Minato's blood, once Minato thinks he killed one of them. I don't think Minato can win without any _Hirashin_ in scenario two. If either Hidan or Kakuzu are marked, they'll probably die (in Hidan's case, beheaded; in Kakuzu's case, he loses a life) until Kakuzu can destroy or remove a body part that's marked. I think Minato either loses or draws with _Shiki Fujin_ to kill Kakuzu once Hidan's decapitated, or he might win if he's unrestricted.


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## JuicyG (Nov 26, 2014)

Itachі said:


> *Location:* Jiraiya vs Pein
> 
> *Distance:* 50 metres
> 
> ...





_This match up is extremely bad and lop sided against Minato here. Minato doesn't even have knowledge on the duo, but the immortals (Who thrive against their opponents due to lack of intel usually) have full knowledge on Minato who just so happens has only 1 kunai here. 

Ok, eventually with only having 1 kunai Minato will get either caught by Hidan or overwhelmed by Kakuzu. Minato may be able to land a few rasengan's on the duo, but he will still be in the mist of trying to solve both of their secrets. By the time that can even happen, Minato will either be drained of chakra thus losing or be caught by an opposing attack.

And whats with SC2 ? Minato is already overly gimped in SC1 with only 1 kunai....

PS:

You need to reverse intel roles in SC1..._​


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## Ghost (Nov 26, 2014)

Honestly with full knowledge the Zombie duo are capable of feinting Minato and take him out by surprise. They lose in direct confrontation though. The longer it takes them for to defeat Minato the more knowledge will the latter receive. 

Outcome depends on which way will the duo take this fight.



Flappy said:


> Hidan gets outright blitzed with pure foot speed and Minato cuts his head off with one of his clones.
> 
> Minato makes 5 clones and engages Kakuzu in CQC. He uses Hiraishin Goshun Mawashi
> and swaps with his clones instead of Hiraishin marks. He can cut through Kakuzu's tendrils with his Kunai seeing how he pierced Obito's Mokuton half with it []
> ...



This is great and all but you are assuming Minato has knowledge here which he doesn't. Hidan is also not getting blitzed from 50 meters.

No reason to assume Minato would start by making five clones etc.


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## Itachі (Nov 26, 2014)

*@JuicyG*

I think that there's a fair chance that Minato dodges every single one of their attacks anyway, he's much faster than them.


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## Flappy (Nov 26, 2014)

Itachі said:


> Not saying that Hidan will take him by surprise, just that Minato won't immediately know that Hidan's going to die. Kakuzu could easily take advantage of Hidan's immortality and fire a Futon enhanced Katon at Minato and Hidan.




If he takes advantage Minato just swaps with his clones. No Kunais means he spreads his clones beforehand the match starts to swap because that's his fighting style. 
Minato always spreads his marks to teleport. This time he needs clones.

He can still dodge by foot seeing how Kakashi, Shikamaru, Choji and Ino dodged Kakuzu's Katon and Minato is much faster than that.[x]



> Doesn't Ei have better reflexes than Minato?



v2 Ay augmenting his Raiton with brain signals has reflexes on par with Minato.






Saikyou said:


> This is great and all but you are assuming Minato has knowledge here which he doesn't. Hidan is also not getting blitzed from 50 meters.



50 m is not much for Minato. He was on Hokage's stone monument which is at the end of the monument. Saw Kyuubi creating TBB here 1 
Kyuubi was sent outside the village by Hiruzen. 

Before Kyuubi can finish his TBB he gets on top of his head with shunshin and summons Gamabunta here 2 
He crossed the whole village in seconds before Kyuubi could launch his TBB.



> No reason to assume Minato would start by making five clones etc.



Except that he will because he doesn't have kunais to spread. 
His fighting style revolves around versatility and continuously swapping to marked places.

No marked kunais = he makes use of the situation via clones.


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## Ghost (Nov 26, 2014)

Don't rely on a statement of someone who was just a kid during the times when Minato and Ei clashed. 

Minato barely reacted to young Ei's max speed.  We have no idea how Minato would fair against prime Ei's max speed.


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## Flappy (Nov 26, 2014)

Saikyou said:


> Don't rely on a statement of someone who was just a kid during the times when Minato and Ei clashed.
> 
> Minato barely reacted to young Ei's max speed.  We have no idea how Minato would fair against prime Ei's max speed.



But it's a manga fact. Minato physically and mentally reacted by throwing his kunai before Ay with his top speed could touch him. 
Ay already stated Naruto was the second one to dodge his top speed. He has the same lightning armour he had prior to becoming Kage.


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## Ghost (Nov 26, 2014)

That was Ei's top speed *20 years ago*. And of course it's the same RnY.  Not the same Ei. Silly to assume Ei has not improved since then.

That Konoha crossing feat has already been debunked to be anything special comparing Minato's other speed feats. He is not blitzing Hidan sorry.


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## Flappy (Nov 26, 2014)

Saikyou said:


> That was Ei's top speed *20 years ago*. And of course it's the same RnY.  Not the same Ei. Silly to assume Ei has not improved since then.



 Not when Ay outright states that Minato avoided the same speed blitz Naruto did.






> That Konoha crossing feat has already been debunked to be anything special comparing Minato's other speed feats. He is not blitzing Hidan sorry.



Irrelevant when he's fast enough to cross a village in an instant.
The village isn't shorter than 50m in width or height. Hidan gets lolblitzed.


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## Turrin (Nov 26, 2014)

Minato really doesn't have an offense that can put down Kakuzu w/ Domu or Long-Range Modo, short of Shiki Fuujin. Even in the case of Hidan he can't really put him down here as Kakuzu will just put him back together again if he tries. Granted I don't see the immortal duo being able to land any attacks on Minato, so it will basically be a stamina contest between the three, in which case I would give the immortal duo the edge on the simple merit that they can conserve their energy a bit more efficiently with team play. Though Minato will use Shiki Fuujin before he outright looses ending the match in a draw.


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## Icegaze (Nov 27, 2014)

wait turrin 
What ???
Minato was said to have raiton affinity why aren't you giving him that ?
He would also know kakuzu is using Doton seeing as how everyone can read seals 

Wow what a turn coat from thread to thread your stance flips on it's back side wow !!!

Mei apparently has raiton  cuz it's in the DB yet Minato who only has DB raiton as well somehow doesn't have it 

 

Seriously you are just the worst


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## Grimmjowsensei (Nov 27, 2014)

Sadly I have to agree with Turrin here. Minato doesn't have knowledge, so he go for a lvl 2 Hirashin blitz on either Kakuzu or Hidan, which will end up being a failiure because he can't kill them with a rasengan. The real downside is, Kakuzu & Hidan now have knowledge on his ability. And with 1 Hirashin Kunai, he can't dodge everything else. He'll be worn down and killed.

Scenario 2 is just a worse version of scenario 1, where Minato doesn't have a realistic shot @ winning at all.


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## Icegaze (Nov 27, 2014)

I agree with turrin more or less what I firmly disagree with is his turn coat nature 
I am positive Minato won't use lightning  cuz he hasn't shown to 
My point was how come he forgets it's a Minato DB ability yet when it comes to Mei he didn't forget she has ration which she never used 

As for Minato being able to by pass domu well I believe dropping a toad on kakuzu should at least do some damage 
How much I can't be sure 

Minato doesn't really have defense breaking techniques


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