# Base Hashirama vs Akatsuki



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Apr 4, 2013)

Battlefield: Valley of the End 
Starting Distance: 60 Meters
Restrictions: Sage Mode for Hashirama
Knowledge: Hashirama has basic knowledge of all the Akatsuki, Akatsuki has knowledge of Hashirama's (as much as Orochimaru knew)

Who wins?

Akatsuki lineup:
Deidara
Sasori
Hidan
Kakuzu
Kisame
Itachi
Konan
Pain


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## Jad (Apr 4, 2013)

Akatsuki together? Pretty sure this is a stomp in favour of Akatsuki.

I think Kisame and Itachi are enough for Base Hashirama.

Kisame can literally enter Kisamehada form, touch the Mokuton Golem and suck it dry of it's Chakara rendering it a useless statue - remembering Kisame did say he gets "stronger" because of his opponents use of Chakara. Let's not forget Itachi said for every technique there is a weakness. Hashirama hasn't shown any ability in terms of speed or sealing technique to avoid being hit by Ameratsu also. Mokuton Bunshins are a problem though in this match-up, but the intelligence, experience and unique abilities of the pair more than make up for this, with regeneration for Kisame and Sasuno(Yata Mirror)/precise perception skills of Itachi.

I have a feeling I'm going to get _smashed _for saying this.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Apr 4, 2013)

Jad said:


> Akatsuki together? Pretty sure this is a stomp in favour of Akatsuki.


Hashirama does have the moves to triumph against the odds though even without Sage Mode, recall. Hell he has jutsus which can tank Kurama's standard Bijudama's, it'd be hard for him to even be damaged by Akatsuki's attacks.


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## Trojan (Apr 4, 2013)

Hashi was not able to kill Kakuzu alone with 1 heart and 1 element. Pretty sure his wind & Fire style can
counter all Hashi's wood. (Other than the Buddha)


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Apr 4, 2013)

TorJaN said:


> Hashi was not able to kill Kakuzu alone with 1 heart and 1 element. Pretty sure his wind & Fire style can
> counter all Hashi's wood. (Other than the Buddha)


Evidence points to Hashirama SPARING Kakuzu instead of outright killing him. Kakashi, who had inferior taijutsu feats to Hashirama was keeping up with him and I'm not seeing him able to counter jutsu of this level here?


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## Luftwaffles (Apr 4, 2013)

TorJaN said:


> Hashi was not able to kill Kakuzu alone with 1 heart and 1 element. Pretty sure his wind & Fire style can
> counter all Hashi's wood. (Other than the Buddha)



HAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! 
Oh god, nice troll post TorJan. I believed you for a minute


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Apr 4, 2013)

Akatsuki win. Preta Path nullifies Ninjutsu with the aid of Kisame; the rest can capitalise on that.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Apr 4, 2013)

Jad said:


> I think Kisame and Itachi are enough for Base Hashirama.


They really don't have the feats for it.


> Kisame can literally enter Kisamehada form, touch the Mokuton Golem and suck it dry of it's Chakara rendering it a useless statue - remembering Kisame did say he gets "stronger" because of his opponents use of Chakara.


I think it might be a bit harder to absorb chakra from a chakra construct that can crush Kisame like a insect and Hashirama can create another one with ease, or turn it right back on Kisame with a Mokuton: Mokuton Ryu.


> Let's not forget Itachi said for every technique there is a weakness. Hashirama hasn't shown any ability in terms of speed or sealing technique to avoid being hit by Ameratsu also.


He could react, and outrun a fucking Bijudama from Kurama which was calced at Mach 66. I think he can comfortably react to Amaterasu via Mokuton spam, one Great Forest technique could block the Amaterasu's flame.


> Mokuton Bunshins are a problem though in this match-up, but the intelligence, experience and unique abilities of the pair more than make up for this, with regeneration for Kisame and Sasuno(Yata Mirror)/precise perception skills of Itachi.


Base Hashirama handled a far stronger Uchiha than Itachi and only needed Sage Mode for when he was truly wanting to win. Just saying all those things aren't a sure thing because Itachi has them. And Susano'o can't block the pollen from Flower World either.



Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> Akatsuki win. Preta Path nullifies Ninjutsu with the aid of Kisame; the rest can capitalise on that.


...couldn't Preta Path be crushed by the giant hands before it absorbs the ninjutsu? And what's Kisame's defense to Flower World?


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Apr 4, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> ...couldn't Preta Path be crushed by the giant hands before it absorbs the ninjutsu? And what's Kisame's defense to Flower World?



This Path absorbs jutsu the moment it comes in contact with it. Examples include Rasenshuriken, Cho Oodama Rasengan and even Jinton. Kisame would logically back up the Preta Path, really. More like a supplementary absorber.


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## Trojan (Apr 4, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Evidence points to Hashirama SPARING Kakuzu instead of outright killing him. Kakashi, who had inferior taijutsu feats to Hashirama was keeping up with him and I'm not seeing him able to counter jutsu of this level here?



1- May you tell me one of these evidence? Like where I can find it in 
manga or the Databook?

2- Kakashi took 4,5 in taijutsu, where did it said that he is inferior to Hashi?
actually what feat does Hashi have? 

level here?
Look how huge his attack is
level here?
It burns all those trees like nothing

level here?
Again all those trees are gone by this wind jutsu 

Did I mention that he can use them together to make them even stronger?

Also, Kakuzu had already survive with 1 heart, had he not? 
so with 5 it must be much easier, and you put all the others with him?

What can Hashi do against C4? or the Amaterasu? 








Deus ex Shinobi said:


> HAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
> Oh god, nice troll post TorJan. I believed you for a minute



Are you Trying to say that Hashi killed Kakuzu? 
Because what I remember is the fact that Naruto & Kakashi are the ones
who did it, no?


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Apr 4, 2013)

Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> This Path absorbs jutsu the moment it comes in contact with it. Examples include Rasenshuriken, Cho Oodama Rasengan and even Jinton. Kisame would logically back up the Preta Path, really. More like a supplementary absorber.


Said jutsus used against Preta Path didn't have a 'physical' form and were basically energy attacks. Mokuton constructs are wood with chakra flowing through them, I think that if one smashes into Preta Path Preta Path'll be unable to absorb it in time before he's either impaled, or crushed.


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## Deleted member 211714 (Apr 4, 2013)

Any combination of Itachi/Kisame/Pain will come out victorious - with varying degrees of difficulty - so Hashirama would need Sage Mode to compete, imo.

I don't think Edo Madara stands a chance, either.


Major underestimation of Akatsuki... 

EDIT: I'd like to note that his Mokuton Bunshin lack Susano'o and Preta Path, so they should be considerably weaker than the ones we've seen.


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## Luftwaffles (Apr 4, 2013)

Hashirama uses Bringer of Darkness OR uses all 9 Tailed Beasts like it was stated he has under HIS POWER in the past. Prime Hashi without SM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Akatsuki


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## Bonly (Apr 4, 2013)

If its all at once against Hashi then im unsure. He'll have a lot on his plate that he would have to deal with but making 25 wood clones would be quite helpful. Honestly this is too much of a cluster fuck as so much can go on, it's hard to what would the likely outcome be.


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## Trojan (Apr 4, 2013)

Deus ex Shinobi said:


> Hashirama uses Bringer of Darkness OR uses all 9 Tailed Beasts like it was stated he has under HIS POWER in the past. Prime Hashi without SM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Akatsuki



the jutsu that didn't killed an old man will kill the  Akatsuki.?

also, he had few of the bujus not all of them, and he cannot control them like Madara and
fight with them, he only suppress them. 





> in the past. Prime Hashi without SM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Akatsuki



I thought some fodder killed him in the war, I see no reason for characters as strong as
the Akatsuki to do less than that. @.@


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Apr 4, 2013)

TorJaN said:


> 1- May you tell me one of these evidence? Like where I can find it in
> manga or the Databook?


Just look at Hashirama's personality. He doesn't kill unless he _absolutely needs to._ Look at how many fucking times he spared Madara and tell me he didn't show mercy on Kakuzu.


> 2- Kakashi took 4,5 in taijutsu, where did it said that he is inferior to Hashi?
> actually what feat does Hashi have?


Overwhelming, while no where near at full strength, Hiruzen in Taijutsu despite Hiruzen having a 5? Fighting sharingan users all of his life and beating them? Clashing equally with Madara in taijutsu?

Those aren't taijutsu feats enough for you to show Hashirama is superior to Kakuzu?


> level here?
> Look how huge his attack is
> level here?
> It burns all those trees like nothing


And...Hashirama's chakra enhanced tree's can tank a Bijudama.


> tank a Bijudama.
> Again all those trees are gone by this wind jutsu


...you do know those trees are _dead_, right? Its fucking called 'Forest of Dead Trees'. 


> Did I mention that he can use them together to make them even stronger?


And nothing shows that he has attacks that can penetrate Hashirama's constructs.


> Also, Kakuzu had already survive with 1 heart, had he not?
> so with 5 it must be much easier, and you put all the others with him?


Kakuzu is the butt-monkey Akatsuki of the manga. Five or one heart, he'd be fodder alone against Hashirama.


> What can Hashi do against C4? or the Amaterasu?


Wood dome against C4 so he doesn't breath it in? And Great Forest Technique against Amaterasu.


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## Luftwaffles (Apr 4, 2013)

TorJaN said:


> the jutsu that didn't killed an old man will kill the  Akatsuki.?
> 
> also, he had few of the bujus not all of them, and he cannot control them like Madara and
> fight with them, he only suppress them.
> ...


Madara with Kyuubi and Perfect Susano'o > Akatsuki.
25 Mokubunshins spamming Mokuton and BoD and using Bijuu? Yeah. Rape thread


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## Octavian (Apr 4, 2013)

with SM, i think hashirama could solo the akatsuki...without SM...nope


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## Trojan (Apr 4, 2013)

> =SuperSaiyaMan12;46824012]Just look at Hashirama's personality. He doesn't kill unless he _absolutely needs to._ Look at how many fucking times he spared Madara and tell me he didn't show mercy on Kakuzu.



Well, Kakuzu is a criminal and his job was to Assassinate Hashi, so why would he leave
him alive? 





> Overwhelming, while no where near at full strength, Hiruzen in Taijutsu despite Hiruzen having a 5? Fighting sharingan users all of his life and beating them? Clashing equally with Madara in taijutsu?
> 
> Those aren't taijutsu feats enough for you to show Hashirama is superior to Kakuzu?



Yes, he wasn't at his full power, but that what he has for now. Also, Hiruzen indeed has a 5 but
he was clearly superior to Hashi. Even Madara I didn't see enough feet from him in taijutsu. 

Not really, because KaKuzu also has 4,5 in it, and what I have seen from Hashi is not enough. 



> And...Hashirama's chakra enhanced tree's can tank a Bijudama.
> 
> ...you do know those trees are _dead_, right? Its fucking called 'Forest of Dead Trees'.



- Didn't it blew up in the next page? (Hashi's jutsu the Human wood)
- Yes, but Hashi's wood has no feet against that as well
they were burn just fine here
tank a Bijudama.
Hiruzen destroyed them with Enma
tank a Bijudama.

So what will make them strong against Kakuzu's jutsu all of sudden? 


> And nothing shows that he has attacks that can penetrate Hashirama's constructs.



Then it's just different in the point of view. It's Ok. @@


> Kakuzu is the butt-monkey Akatsuki of the manga. Five or one heart, he'd be fodder alone against Hashirama.



Yes, by himself he'll lose, but what I meant he already has the feat of surviving with 1 heart
and 1 element. He's 5x stronger than when he fought Hashi. So you just underrated him and overrated Hashi. @.@


> Wood dome against C4 so he doesn't breath it in? And Great Forest Technique against Amaterasu.



I didn't know that Hshi has the sharingan and can see C4! 

Amaterasu will burn all of that. @.@
re-watch Itachi Vs Sasuke fight,


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## Bkprince33 (Apr 4, 2013)

Bensho tenin into totsuka?


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Apr 4, 2013)

TorJaN said:


> Well, Kakuzu is a criminal and his job was to Assassinate Hashi, so why would he leave
> him alive?


Kakuzu wasn't a criminal until his failed assassination on Hashirama. Given Hashirama's personality, he wouldn't have killed Kakuzu, he'd just send him back with his tail between his legs.


> Yes, he wasn't at his full power, but that what he has for now. Also, Hiruzen indeed has a 5 but
> he was clearly superior to Hashi. Even Madara I didn't see enough feet from him in taijutsu.


Hiruzen was overwhelmed by Hashirama's taijutsu despite having a five in that area and needed to summon Enma to compensate. And if Hashirama clashed many times against Madara physically and both were equal, its comfortably above Kakashi's level.


> Not really, because KaKuzu also has 4,5 in it, and what I have seen from Hashi is not enough.


 And Madara, whose Hashirama's physical equal reacted and defended against A's attacks.




> - Didn't it blew up in the next page? (Hashi's jutsu the Human wood)


Hashirama switched to a different jutsu, the Wood Human was used in his Senju'u technique as it's crown.


> - Yes, but Hashi's wood has no feet against that as well
> they were burn just fine here
> tank a Bijudama.
> Hiruzen destroyed them with Enma
> tank a Bijudama.


Again, you fail to see which jutsu Hashirama's technique used. He can create Mokuton constructs, the Mokuton: Hōbi no Jutsu to defend against Bijudama and shield the Mokuton Human Technique.


> So what will make them strong against Kakuzu's jutsu all of sudden?


Their fucking feats?



> Then it's just different in the point of view. It's Ok. @@


Feats don't support it.



> Yes, by himself he'll lose, but what I meant he already has the feat of surviving with 1 heart
> and 1 element. He's 5x stronger than when he fought Hashi. So you just underrated him and overrated Hashi. @.@


No, you're wanking to Kakuzu. He didn't have Earth Grudge Fear then, that's true, but all of Kakuzu's feats show he stands NO chance against Hashirama. Especially if Base Naruto can defeat him. 



> I didn't know that Hshi has the sharingan and can see C4!


You do know he's a sensor, right?


> Amaterasu will burn all of that. @.@
> re-watch Itachi Vs Sasuke fight,


Amaterasu was burning a forest for a LONG time before it did anything. A simple Mokuton Great Forest will redirect it and turn it into Itachi's death nail.

You really underestimate Hashirama from his feats.


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## Nikushimi (Apr 5, 2013)

I love Hashirama, but he gets absolutely violated here.

This is impossible unless his Sennin Moodo is allowed. And even then, it's a pretty tall order for him to take on the entire Akatsuki organization solo. These motherfuckers are stronger than the Bijuu, more numerous, and way, _way_ more hax.


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## Trojan (Apr 5, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12

I'm not saying that KaKuzu alone can take Hash out, all what I mean that he can do a lot of things here
and with all the others, they will STOMP the crap out of Hashi. He has absolutely no chance.


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## Lord Raizen (Apr 5, 2013)

TorJaN said:


> Hashi was not able to kill Kakuzu alone with 1 heart and 1 element. Pretty sure his wind & Fire style can
> counter all Hashi's wood. (Other than the Buddha)



Kakuzu is no wear near as powerful, as fast or as skilled as the 1st. Kakuzu could barely handle Kakashi. 

Just because Kakuzu remarked that he fought the 1st in the past, does not mean you get to assume that he's on the same level. Any number of things could've allowed him to survive the battle.




TorJaN said:


> 1- May you tell me one of these evidence? Like where I can find it in
> manga or the Databook?



You are the one who needs to provide evidence, as you made the positve claim. And you have no evidence since you argument is based on a fight that *no one has ever seen.*




Nikushimi said:


> I love Hashirama, but he gets absolutely violated here.
> 
> This is impossible unless his Sennin Moodo is allowed. And even then, it's a pretty tall order for him to take on the entire Akatsuki organization solo. These motherfuckers are stronger than the Bijuu, more numerous, and way, _way_ more hax.



The Akatsuki are not _stronger _than the Biju, unless you can provide evidence that each Akatsuki member possesses mountain level+ destructive power, durability and double digit mach speeds.

The Akatsuki are only able to defeat each Bijuu because most of the Bijuu are relatively unintelligent and lack the ability to use thier power effectively when they aren't under the control of a ninja.

Hashirama can summon the Bijuu, just as Madara did, and fight using thier power. 

If Madara can casually bring down the 5 Kage, then Hashirama can bring down the Akatsuki.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Apr 5, 2013)

TorJaN said:


> SuperSaiyaMan12
> 
> I'm not saying that KaKuzu alone can take Hash out, all what I mean that he can do a lot of things here
> and with all the others, they will STOMP the crap out of Hashi. He has absolutely no chance.


Even in base, his feats support it. Again, what defense they have against the Flower World which can put most of the members to sleep with ease?


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## Nikushimi (Apr 5, 2013)

Lord Raizen said:


> The Akatsuki are not _stronger _than the Biju, unless you can provide evidence that each Akatsuki member possesses mountain level+ destructive power, durability and double digit mach speeds.



In terms of sheer destructive capacity and durability, yes, the Bijuu surpass Akatsuki. However, there is no speed difference (Hidan was able to avoid the Nibi's fireball from a very short distance, Sasuke was able to cut off the Hachibi's tentacle with Chidori Eisou, Deidara and Obito were both able to keep up with the Sanbi, etc.). Also, destructive power is NOT Akatsuki's primary advantage; their true strength is their versatility, superior intelligence, and "hax."



> The Akatsuki are only able to defeat each Bijuu because most of the Bijuu are relatively unintelligent and lack the ability to use thier power effectively when they aren't under the control of a ninja.



So what? Intelligence is as important an asset as any. But it's not the only reason Akatsuki is more powerful (as a whole) than the Bijuu.



> Hashirama can summon the Bijuu, just as Madara did, and fight using thier power.



We have no feats for this. We know he possessed the Bijuu at one time, but whether or not he could use them for battle remains to be seen. In his climactic showdown with Madara, they were absent.



> If Madara can casually bring down the 5 Kage, then Hashirama can bring down the Akatsuki.



The 5 Kage are nowhere near the collective power of Akatsuki; Itachi and Pain as a duo could very arguably match or defeat them, let alone all the others as well.


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## ueharakk (Apr 5, 2013)

Base Hashirama can take this.

Mokuton dragon could potentially beat Itachi.  Mokurjin would probably occupy Kakuzu or Sasori.  Bunshins for fighting the other members (I'm assuming his limit is 25 since Madara can do that many) in a FTW environment.

The real Hashirama crushes Pain, six giant wood hands capable of grabbing Kurama like a hamster > six paths of pain bar deva if he uses CST or Preta if he can actually absorb the wood hands.


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## Ersa (Apr 5, 2013)

Gokage are in no away comparable to Akatsuki, Itachi/Pain together would arguably defeat them. Add on Kage levels like Kisame, Deidara, Sasori, Konan, Kakuzu and you have an utter rapestomp. 

Base Hashirama loses mid difficulty to Akatsuki, SM Hashirama beats them.

He simply has too much to watch out for, poison/CT/C4/large AOE attacks/Tsukiyomi/Totsuka/Preta/CST/missiles.


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## The World (Apr 5, 2013)

Lord Raizen said:


> Kakuzu is no wear near as powerful, as fast or as skilled as the 1st. Kakuzu could barely handle Kakashi.



Wut? He soundly beat Kakashi, Chouji and Ino. While missing his Iron Skin, which is weak to Lightning.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Apr 5, 2013)

The World said:


> Wut? He soundly beat Kakashi, Chouji and Ino. While missing his Iron Skin, which is weak to Lightning.


Kakashi could fight him for a significant amount of time and he didn't even bring out the big guns-Kamui.


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## The World (Apr 5, 2013)

Nikushimi said:


> In terms of sheer destructive capacity and durability, yes, the Bijuu surpass Akatsuki. However, there is no speed difference (Hidan was able to avoid the Nibi's fireball from a very short distance, Sasuke was able to cut off the Hachibi's tentacle with Chidori Eisou, Deidara and Obito were both able to keep up with the Sanbi, etc.). Also, destructive power is NOT Akatsuki's primary advantage; their true strength is their versatility, superior intelligence, and "hax."



It was pretty clear that Yugito did not have full control over Nibi, so that fireball could have been fuck all in power and speed from a full bijuu-jinchuriki bond.



SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Kakashi could fight him for a significant amount of time and he didn't even bring out the big guns-Kamui.



Because Kakuzu was pressing him too hard to prep Kamui.

If Naruto and Yamato hadn't come, he would have had his heart ripped out.



Nikushimi said:


> We have no feats for this. We know he possessed the Bijuu at one time, but whether or not he could use them for battle remains to be seen. In his climactic showdown with Madara, they were absent.



Wasn't it stated somewhere in the manga that Hashirama lent the Bijuu's to the other villages as a sign of peace and trust?


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Apr 5, 2013)

The World said:


> It was pretty clear that Yugito did not have full control over Nibi, so that fireball could have been fuck all in power and speed from a full bijuu-jinchuriki bond.


Not only that, its highly possible Yugito thought she killed both Hidan and Kakuzu, powered down and Hidan sprung up, slashed her cheek and initiated his ritual.




> Because Kakuzu was pressing him too hard to prep Kamui.
> 
> If Naruto and Yamato hadn't come, he would have had his heart ripped out.


Kakashi explicitly said he'd use Kamui if Naruto and Yamato didn't show up, and said he'd be in the hospital at that moment because of it.




> Wasn't it stated somewhere in the manga that Hashirama lent the Bijuu's to the other villages as a sign of peace and trust?


Don't know when exactly he did it, or how many he possessed in the first place.


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## The World (Apr 5, 2013)

Should have, could have's.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Apr 5, 2013)

The World said:


> Should have, could have's.


Would have. Was going to. Kakashi would have use Kamui if it came down to it, and was prepared to do it. From point blank, Kakuzu would have been gone.


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## The World (Apr 5, 2013)

You don't know that


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Apr 5, 2013)

The World said:


> You don't know that


If Kakashi said he can do it, he can. He explicitly said 'I was going to Kamui the Akatsuki until you showed up Naruto.'


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## The World (Apr 5, 2013)

Alot of characters say alot of things, that means all of jack shit.

I suppose that Kamui sure helped him against Pain too.

He was 2 secs away from getting his heart ripped out. Him being rusty as fuck with Kamui at the time would have done nothing.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Apr 5, 2013)

The World said:


> Alot of characters say alot of things, that means all of jack shit.
> 
> I suppose that Kamui sure helped him against Pain too.
> 
> He was 2 secs from getting his heart ripped out. Him being rusty as fuck with Kamui at the time would have done nothing.


Kamui wouldn't have been of help against Deva Path due to its Ninjutsu deflection powers via the Shinra Path ability.

Kakashi was _three feet away from Kakuzu_. Point. Blank. You honestly said he can't just Kamui him there?


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## Empathy (Apr 5, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Kakashi explicitly said he'd use Kamui if Naruto and Yamato didn't show up, and said he'd be in the hospital at that moment because of it.



He means he would've used _Kamui_ on the blast if Naruto and Yamato hadn't shown up and taken care of the blast for him. Even if he was going to kill Kakuzu with it (which that giant wall of flame blocking line-of-sight was preventing him from doing), that fireball wasn't going to just go away. It was going to kill him, Ino, and Chouji if he didn't do something to stop it. The blast was already oncoming and blocking line-of sight when _Kamui_ had yet to appear by Kakuzu. People get confused when Kakashi said he would've been in hospital, indicating he would've survived on his own. He's speaking in hindsight. 

Kakashi's words were, "_If you guys hadn't shown up that time, I would have had to use it_." He means if Naruto and Yamato hadn't shown up to stop that blast when they did, he would've had to stop it himself (with _Kamui_) and then Team 7 would've been there to handle the rest. He had no way to kill Kakuzu at that point. The point of Team 7 arriving for the end-of-chapter cliffhanger was to portray that Naruto, the protagonist, has arrived to save the day. Not that Naruto has arrived to save Kakashi money on his medical bills and cockblock him out of victory. Kakuzu was seconds away from killing Kakashi earlier until Shikamaru stopped him. Kakuzu had Kakashi soundly defeated at that point.


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## The World (Apr 5, 2013)

Kamui is a Space/Time jutsu, I'm pretty sure Shinra Tensei can't deflect that.

And no Kakashi couldn't do anything before being killed.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Apr 5, 2013)

The World said:


> Kamui is a Space/Time jutsu, I'm pretty sure Shinra Tensei can't deflect that.
> 
> And no Kakashi couldn't do anything before being killed.


Shinra Tensei disrupts ninjutsu, it already disrupted and dispelled one MS jutsu already (Amaterasu) so there's no reason why Shinra Tensei can't disrupt the portal. 

And Kakashi said he could. His eye was uncovered and everything.


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## The World (Apr 5, 2013)

Amaterasu isn't a space/time jutsu


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Apr 5, 2013)

The World said:


> Amaterasu isn't a space/time jutsu


Its a Mangekyo Sharingan technique, just like Kamui is. Kamui is made of chakra and is a ninjutsu. It can be disrupted, its aim thrown off, etc.


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## The World (Apr 5, 2013)

Whatever I'm done


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## Zhmdeng (Apr 5, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Shinra Tensei disrupts ninjutsu, it already disrupted and dispelled one MS jutsu already (Amaterasu) so there's no reason why Shinra Tensei can't disrupt the portal.
> 
> And Kakashi said he could. His eye was uncovered and everything.



Just because he said he could, doesn't mean shit.

Even if he did use it and dissipated the fireball, he would've been wrecked after exerting so much chakra. Kakuzu would then proceed to rape him and pull out his heart.

Back to the thread, Hashirama would lose. SoP Pain could arguably solo the 5 current kage. Base Hashi wouldn't survive the Akatsuki Onslaught. Maybe if it was one on one, he would have a chance.


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## crisler (Apr 5, 2013)

hashi dies.

i'm pretty sure even 4~5 of them is enough to kill him.


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## Krippy (Apr 5, 2013)

Horrible rape in favor of Akatsuki

Kisame/Itachi/Pain/Deidara/Sasori all fuck his world up while the rest sit back and watch


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## joshhookway (Apr 5, 2013)

Give Hashirama at least sage mode.


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## RickMartin Ben Janardhan (Apr 5, 2013)

without sage mode? really guys? Base hashi is not that powerful to solo all of the akatsuki at once in base form  like wtf

deidara is is a huuuuge threat to hashi since he can bombard the earth with aerial assaults and hashi's fighting style is not really suitable for flying ninja. C4 or C3 is a little bit to much for hashi to deal with while he has to worry about the rest of the akatsuki.

itachi can amaterasu spam and since hashi is in base, he wont be able to regenerate. and he can also spam his totsuka blade and yata mirror and i honestly do not see how hashi can counter that. 

kisame can flood hashi's forest and super shark bomb can absorb the chakra from the trees and the mokuton monsters and grow bigger. 

kakuzu can spam his threads from underground and entangle the mokuton clones while his masks join together and spam their elemental HyperBeams and blow away the forest.

konan? lol hashi cant even hurt this bitch.

Hidan obviously gets fodderized by mokuton clones.

nagato will have to limit his power due to the safety of his teammates. his AOE attacks will be effective against hashi but his teammates will get caught in the crossfire. but he can spam his summons and gedo mazo. 

no way in the world is hashi winning this battle in base. he'll most likely take out kakuzu, hidan, konan and kisame, but deidara, itachi, nagato and konan's Hax are too much for him to fight all at once!

Giving him sage mode will make this a fair fight.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Apr 5, 2013)

Krippy said:


> Horrible rape in favor of Akatsuki
> 
> Kisame/Itachi/Pain/Deidara/Sasori all fuck his world up while the rest sit back and watch


Sasori and the Pain Paths would be the only people who _don't_ succumb to Mokuton: Kajukai Korin. On top of Hashirama's massive Mokutons he displayed during his fight with Madara, on top of his ability to create perfect Mokuton Bushins, he has, even in BASE the means to defeat Akatsuki on his own.


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## Rain (Apr 7, 2013)

Hashirama without SM hasn't shown: 

- Speed to dodge Amaterasu, 
- Defense against Tsukuyomi.
- Defense against high-powered ST
- Defense against CT
- Defense against BT > Totsuka/Soul Rip
- Firepower that matches the Akatsuki's combined firepower.
- Many more things


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## Atlantic Storm (Apr 7, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Sasori and the Pain Paths would be the only people who _don't_ succumb to Mokuton: Kajukai Korin. On top of Hashirama's massive Mokutons he displayed during his fight with Madara, on top of his ability to create perfect Mokuton Bushins, he has, even in BASE the means to defeat Akatsuki on his own.



As well as Deidara, Kakuzu, Itachi, Konan, and Kisame.

Deidara can easily fly out of the range of the pollen like the others did, since his flying feats are at least on par with Ōnoki and has shown to be able to make birds fast enough to avoid getting completely blown up by an explosion of his c2 dragon and land mines. Konan can fly out of the range as well.

Kakuzu's entire body is made up of threads, and does not need to breathe. 

Itachi can probably stop the pollen from seeping in with Susano'o.

I'm not so sure about Kisame, but he can probably burrow underground, or go underwater to avoid the pollen getting to him.


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## izanagi x izanami (Apr 8, 2013)

with itachi akatsuki wins with mid diff.....without itachi hashirama wins with mid diff


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## Edo Madara (Apr 8, 2013)

Bkprince33 said:


> Bensho tenin into totsuka?



Mokubunshin Feint 

Base Hashirama > EMS Madara w/o Kyuubi

All Hashirama need is Tajuu Mokubunshin no Jutsu and he rapes them all with the powers of wood

at least add Obito and Zetsu to give Akatsuki more favors OP


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## Ezekial (Apr 8, 2013)

-snip-
Hashirama soloing the entire Akatsuki? You do know Nagato can absorb his Mokuton right? Then whilst his only technique he's shown is being absorb the Paths overwhelm him, seriously.


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## Arles Celes (Apr 8, 2013)

All of Akatsuki is too overpowered.

Without SM, Hashi gets overwhelmed when facing so many powerful opponents with such a variety of skills.

Hashi is extremely strong but it seems that many are starting to seriously underestimate Akatsuki if they think the organization can be put down under such circumstances.


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