# Naruto compared to other manga



## Wizard (Mar 1, 2011)

Alright the first one got trashed. which manga do you like better? I know i can't add all manga so ill add naruto (and shippuden) one piece bleach dragonball (z) and other. Do you guys like naruto part 1 better then one piece? I sometimes do depending on the thing. But my favorite is dragonball. You can add other favorite manga in you posts.


----------



## ichigeau (Mar 1, 2011)

i have a feeling this thread will be trashed too..... anyway

i dont read naruto, i watch the anime only
i kidna lost interess in naruto since the pain arc  animation'n all was horrible

and then what ? shit filler again
it kinda went up since the canon started again but its still *oh new naruto episode, i'll watch it if i have time* unlike *IHSIFNISDF THE EPISODE IS OUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!* when i was really liking this show


to other manga ? well i read only 2 manga... well 3... (but i also have some naruto volume that i've buyed but didint continue after...i regret buying those today ) naruto would be like.... latest on the 4 on a interess list


----------



## MrCinos (Mar 1, 2011)

> Alright the first one got trashed. which manga do you like better?


Can't bother to name almost hundreds of manga titles superior to Naruto.

I imagine people who have Naruto in their favorites didn't read much of other mangas out there (especially seinens).


----------



## Stunna (Mar 1, 2011)

Dragon Ball/Z is better than Naruto, imo


----------



## Markness (Mar 2, 2011)

It's not one of my top favorites but it holds my interest and has grown on me.


----------



## Black Sabbath II (Mar 2, 2011)

One Piece, Toriko, Psyren, Beelzebub, Shaman King, Dragonball/Z, To Aru Majutsu, Jojo's bizarre adventure, Medaka Box. A list of shounen mangas I enjoy way more than Naruto. There are more but I'd be going on for awhile.


----------



## Blinky (Mar 2, 2011)

> Naruto compared to other manga



Is shit


----------



## Xion (Mar 2, 2011)

Off the top of my head and the ones I have read?

One Piece obviously. 
Berserk definitely. There is none better. 
Claymore...maybe three years ago when it had hope.
Dead Man Wonderland probably.
HxH most likely.

The thing is Naruto has become iconic in a way in society so it actually is quite high on the status chart even if it isn't better per se than many other manga.

Definitely better than both Bleach and Fairy Tail though.


----------



## Zorokiller (Mar 2, 2011)

*Any.***


----------



## Bubyrd Ratcatcher (Mar 2, 2011)

The Houshin Engi's and Violinist of Hameln's cast are not pleased .


----------



## C-Moon (Mar 2, 2011)

The Naruto manga is expensive toilet paper.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Mar 2, 2011)

You guys don't read much manga do ya 

Naruto is one series in a pool of hundreds of thousands, outside of a bigger pool of hundreds of thousands. It doesn't rank very high although i guess its fans can credit Kishi somewhat for having the backing to make it mainstream, you can thank Shounen Jump and the anime for that


----------



## Scizor (Mar 2, 2011)

Mainstream or not, I find the naruto manga enjoyable. And that's what it's about for me.

I do know, and admit, there are alot of manga out there who are essencially better, though.


----------



## Han Solo (Mar 2, 2011)

You fail to comprehend how many manga are better than Naruto.


----------



## Rene (Mar 2, 2011)

Blinky said:


> Is shit


Oh Blinky. 



Scizor said:


> Mainstream or not, I find the naruto manga enjoyable. And that's what it's about for me.
> 
> I do know, and admit, there are alot of manga out there who are essencially better, though.



I found part one to be enjoyable to a degree.

Part 2 has just been terrible and overall naruto doesn't scale up well against many sorts of manga unless you go looking into Reborn, Bleach and Sora no Oto.


----------



## Shock Therapy (Mar 2, 2011)

Every manga I've read so far besides Bleach is better than Naruto.


----------



## Endless Mike (Mar 2, 2011)

rawrawraw said:


> Every manga I've read so far besides Bleach is better than Naruto.



You must not have read many of the really terrible mangas then


----------



## MdB (Mar 2, 2011)

Pretty sure both of them belong to the list of terrible manga, Mike. The worst though, is without a doubt KissxSiss or some other pseudo-i*c*st manga.


----------



## Scizor (Mar 2, 2011)

Rene said:


> I found part one to be enjoyable to a degree.
> 
> Part 2 has just been terrible and overall naruto doesn't scale up well against many sorts of manga unless you go looking into Reborn, Bleach and Sora no Oto.



I agree about part I.

But, though I agree there was a time when I had the same opinion as you do about part II, the manga's been going in the right direction (imo) for a while now. I like it, atm.

Doesn't take away the fact there are lots of better manga out there, though.


----------



## Wizard (Mar 2, 2011)

Well of course i know naruto isn't the best 
I just want to know how you compare it? I like one piece a lot better then naruto


----------



## Inuhanyou (Mar 2, 2011)

You should change the title to "Naruto compared to other shounen manga", cause your basically throwing Naruto into a giant valley that never ends if your include seinen or shoujou. I could say the same about One Piece although the super fans probably wouldn't want to think like that.


----------



## Endless Mike (Mar 2, 2011)

MdB said:


> Pretty sure both of them belong to the list of terrible manga, Mike. The worst though, is without a doubt KissxSiss or some other pseudo-i*c*st manga.



What about actual i*c*st manga?


----------



## Oberyn Nymeros (Mar 2, 2011)

its the best manga out there


----------



## Shock Therapy (Mar 2, 2011)

Endless Mike said:


> You must not have read many of the really terrible mangas then



Yeah I usually read mangas that I've heard good things from. Ones that I've read in the past month like The Breaker and Gamaran were pretty good, though Gamaran really needs to work on their time skips.


----------



## Pervy Fox (Mar 2, 2011)

I still think Naruto is enjoyable but i will admit it has been getting tiresome since the Pain arc ended.

Just give it about 3 or 5 years after the manga ends and people will look back on how classic it was.


----------



## Sito (Mar 2, 2011)

I'll list ones you probably know about



One Piece>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Naruto
Fairy Tail>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Naruto
VagaBond>>>>>Naruto
Pedobear:Life as a...>>>>Naruto
*Naruto>>>Bleach*


----------



## MdB (Mar 2, 2011)

Pervy Fox said:


> Just give it about 3 or 5 years after the manga ends and people will look back on how classic it was.


----------



## Mintaka (Mar 2, 2011)

harrypottersama said:


> Alright the first one got trashed. which manga do you like better? I know i can't add all manga so ill add naruto (and shippuden) one piece bleach dragonball (z) and other. *Do you guys like naruto part 1 better then one piece*



[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FopyRHHlt3M[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## urca (Mar 2, 2011)

as far as i've read,naruto's weak compared to other shounen mangas,its just more famous..


----------



## Akatora (Mar 2, 2011)

I wouldn't call it bad, just nothing special

I didn't like it at first, then I had 2 years where i found it somewhat interesting before I hit the current ~ 1?-2 years of little to no interest in the series


I am admittingly a fan of Bleach, it isn't my favorite series but it is my favorite topic to talk about online


----------



## Sylar (Mar 2, 2011)

Pervy Fox said:


> I still think Naruto is enjoyable but i will admit it has been getting tiresome since the Pain arc ended.
> 
> Just give it about 3 or 5 years after the manga ends and people will look back on how classic it was.


----------



## Sabotage (Mar 3, 2011)

Pervy Fox said:


> I still think Naruto is enjoyable but i will admit it has been getting tiresome since the Pain arc ended.
> 
> Just give it about 3 or 5 years after the manga ends and people will look back on how classic it was.


----------



## Zorokiller (Mar 3, 2011)

Sito said:


> I'll list ones you probably know about
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Wait the amount of ">" equals how much it is better then the other...?

So you're implying Fairy Tail>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Vagabond?


----------



## Aldric (Mar 3, 2011)

Fairy Tail isn't that much better than Naruto

Actually besides fanservice (Mashima draws tittays well, good work Mashima) and the lack of a terrible rival character hogging all the spotlight it's pretty much as bad

Utterly retarded fight outcomes, terrible character design for the most part (especially the antagonists), ridiculously cheesy drama, no real mythology or worldbuilding in sight, average artstyle especially when it comes to action scenes

Bleach is another shonen that is as bad as Naruto, maybe even worse in some aspects, depends on what you're looking for

Air Gear is awful too as Oh! Great is bar none the most incompetent dialogist in the industry

Those are pretty much the current shonens I know which are about on the same (shitty) level as Naruto, everything else (One Piece, Soul Eater, Hunter X Hunter especially) beat the shit out of it


----------



## Mist Puppet (Mar 3, 2011)

cha-uzu said:


> Naruto is the best Shounen Manga I've ever read.



I'm going to go ahead and (rightfully) assume you haven't read much shounen.


----------



## Pervy Fox (Mar 3, 2011)

Problem?


----------



## Kellogem (Mar 3, 2011)

out of the mangas I read Naruto is the worst.. Im always on the verge of dropping it but still rush throught the new chapters in the end.

maybe Bleach and FT were worse, but I stopped reading them, so..


----------



## Neelon (Mar 3, 2011)

I like part I Naruto way more than post Shabondy one piece.
Part II has been gutter thrash so far.

Above all,
Reborn is the best piece of shit ever along with Gantz, especially the Tsuna vs Byakuran fight. So deep, so incredibly complex.


----------



## Geralt of Rivia (Mar 3, 2011)

Vinland Saga








Everything else


----------



## Bubyrd Ratcatcher (Mar 3, 2011)

Neelon said:


> Above all,
> Reborn is the best piece of shit ever along with Gantz, especially the Tsuna vs Byakuran fight. So deep, so incredibly complex.



Yeah that was the most epic battle ever 
Tsuna vs Byakuran >>> Toriko vs Tommyrod  > Joseph vs Cars


----------



## Aldric (Mar 3, 2011)

Hibari Kyoya or whatever is the worst thing ever


----------



## Sylar (Mar 3, 2011)

BITE YOU TO DEATH


----------



## cha-uzu (Mar 3, 2011)

Mist Puppet said:


> I'm going to go ahead and (rightfully) assume you haven't read much shounen.



Bleach
Fairy Tale
Reborn
Maian
Historys Strongest Disciple
GE
Defence Devil
Cavalier of the Abyss
Highschool of the Dead 
Immortal Regis
Kurohime
Dragon Ball Z
Break Blade
Freezing
D-Gray
Ichigo 100%
Legend of Tyr
Breaker
Veritas
Chrome Shelled Regios
Naruto
Bloody Monday I & II

a short list of the shounens I've read. 

ASSuming is never a good thing to do. Just cause you disagree, doesn't negate my opinion.


----------



## Teach (Mar 3, 2011)

A better question is; what manga is worse than Naruto not the other way around.


----------



## Malvingt2 (Mar 3, 2011)

OP are you serious? T_T 

I stopped reading naruto long time ago. After the Itachi fiasco. The manga plot is just terrible. Character development is a waste of time. This manga had a lot of potential but it went south real fast. My friends like to keep me update it with all the mess currently happening in Naruto and they just keep reading to see the ending and nothing else.


----------



## Luffyfangirl24 (Mar 3, 2011)

I read Naruto and watch the anime and I'm sadly loosing intrest in it, Naruto is going all emo/obssesed over him in the anime and Sakura/Ino are still crying over him dang annoying. In the manga, new characters keep getting the spotlight over the older ones and we really haven't had that many great battles and Sakura don't know what's going on with her, Naruto is still left in the dark about all this. I know lots of shows/manga's that have been better One Piece, never get tired of that, Hitman Reborn.


----------



## Geralt of Rivia (Mar 3, 2011)

Naruto would be a more enjoyable manga if it didn't focus so much on shitty background characters like Chouji, Ino, fucking Sai, etc. Great you want to have a little more diversity, but nobody is going to give a darn when you didn't develop these characters in the first place.


----------



## Zorokiller (Mar 3, 2011)

Neelon said:


> I like part I Naruto way more than post Shabondy one piece.
> Part II has been gutter thrash so far.
> 
> Above all,
> Reborn is the best piece of shit ever along with Gantz, especially the Tsuna vs Byakuran fight. So deep, so incredibly complex.





Bubi said:


> Yeah that was the most epic battle ever
> Tsuna vs Byakuran >>> Toriko vs Tommyrod  > Joseph vs Cars



You guys are trolling right?

I mean...KHR had it's fun moments...but most fight sequences are one of the worst shounen examples there are.

bishie boy, some random vague lines that are to signify flames all over.

Sorry but no, KHR fights are only okay at times, but mostly uninteresting.


----------



## The last Dalek (Mar 3, 2011)

Teach said:


> A better question is; what manga is worse than Naruto not the other way around.



While the list of ones that are better is very long Im pretty sure the list ones that are worst is even longer.

Naruto is a decent but nothing special manga that gets alot of undeserved hype and as a resault gets alot of undeserved hate.

When somthing is obscure everyone wants to jump on the bandwagon and once it becomes populer and well known averyone turns against it because they dont feel like there in some exclusive little club annymore. Also stuff like Naruto while good fails to live up to the hype causing alot of people to come to it with expectations that are way to high.


----------



## Bubyrd Ratcatcher (Mar 3, 2011)

Zorokiller said:


> You guys are trolling right?
> 
> I mean...KHR had it's fun moments...but most fight sequences are one of the worst shounen examples there are.
> 
> ...



You forgot to mention the mighty earthquake and the flashy toy weapons


----------



## Aldric (Mar 3, 2011)

100% Ichigo said:


> Naruto would be a more enjoyable manga if it didn't focus so much on shitty background characters like Chouji, Ino, fucking Sai, etc. Great you want to have a little more diversity, but nobody is going to give a darn when you didn't develop these characters in the first place.



What

One of Naruto's main problems is that it's entirely about the two homos known as the "main" character and his terrible rival/estranged lover, and that the side characters get absolutely no focus whatsoever

Hell Chouji and Ino probably have less panels in the entire manga than Sasuke in a single arc


----------



## Bubyrd Ratcatcher (Mar 3, 2011)

^ I think that 100% Ichigo was talking only about the last chapters: Kishimoto is slowing the pace of the war arc by giving space to side characters that have never been developed before. And the result of it is a desolating boredom.
I might say that Kishimoto with this arc is doing an Oda's war arc.


----------



## C-Moon (Mar 3, 2011)

Aldric said:


> What
> 
> One of Naruto's main problems is that it's entirely about the two homos known as the "main" character and his terrible rival/estranged lover, and that the side characters get absolutely no focus whatsoever
> 
> Hell Chouji and Ino probably have less panels in the entire manga than Sasuke in a single arc




Chouji: 751
Ino: 714

Second to 1500: Sasuke, 69
Not a single arc but he already has more panels by this point than the two of them combined(and has more them them individually by chapter 39), even when counting the chapters after 516.


----------



## Aldric (Mar 3, 2011)

Bubi said:


> ^ I think that 100% Ichigo was talking only about the last chapters: Kishimoto is slowing the pace of the war arc by giving space to side characters that have never been developed before.
> I might say that Kishimoto with this arc is doing an Oda's war arc.



Yeah that "war" is mind numbingly awful

KINKAKU AND GINKAKU are probably the worst characters he ever created, and that's saying something


----------



## cha-uzu (Mar 3, 2011)

LOL On one side there are people that welcome the focus on other characters and then there others that call it boring.. Naruto is 530 chapters deep. A little focus on other characters is a great thing in my opinion, although I think it should have been spread out a bit more. 

Right now i enjoy reading quite a few mangas more then Naruto, but as far as overall? Naruto got it in my opinion.


----------



## Magnificent (Mar 3, 2011)

100% Ichigo said:


> Naruto would be a more enjoyable manga if it didn't focus so much on shitty background characters like Chouji, Ino, fucking Sai, etc. Great you want to have a little more diversity, but nobody is going to give a darn when you didn't develop these characters in the first place.



Chouji is way more interesting than Sauce.


----------



## Sesha (Mar 3, 2011)

cha-uzu said:


> LOL On one side there are people that welcome the focus on other characters and then there others that call it boring.. Naruto is 530 chapters deep. A little focus on other characters is a great thing in my opinion, although I think it should have been spread out a bit more.
> 
> Right now i enjoy reading quite a few mangas more then Naruto, but as far as overall? Naruto got it in my opinion.



No one gave a shit about Golden Horn or Silver Horn or Dick Joke or whomever, nor did they exist until just recently, so the recent fight was completely unwarranted.

Focusing on complete nobodies who are terribly designed and who lack consistency with the series' established lore isn't the same as developing supporting characters. People care about established characters, not some jokers created solely to pad out a half-baked story arc.

Edit: As for Chouji, Ino, Sai, etc., developing them would have been a lot more appreciated if we actually saw something of them prior to this arc. You can't just go a hundred chapters, then suddenly drop them in the middle of something and say "there you go. Enjoy". We could have had some short scenes with them before the war, some build up to them or focus on their concerns or anything. Instead we get one panel for each of them acting out their token gimmick before marching off. 
Hell, the chance was present just before that when they discussed between themselves and later with Naruto how they would handle Sasuke. Again, nothing. Instead we got a scene of our stalwart hero dismissing their concerns and walk of for his daily dose of ramen and comic relief.


----------



## Aldric (Mar 3, 2011)

The Sage of the Six Paths is just a myth...

A HUNDRED CHAPTERS LATER

They're descending from the Sage of the Six Paths also they use his super special weapons or something!!! Plus they went camping in Kyuubi's colon when they were kids and so now they have his chakra 

SO INTERESTING JAPANESE MYTHOLOGY KISHIMOTO THAMA


----------



## C-Moon (Mar 3, 2011)

I'll quote myself on the Sage crap:



Gamma Akutabi said:


> As far as I'm concerned, Rikudo isn't even a character. He's just Kishi's failed attempt at connecting everything, and a way out of explaining whatever ridiculous path the manga takes.


----------



## MdB (Mar 3, 2011)

cha-uzu said:


> LOL On one side there are people that welcome the focus on other characters and then there others that call it boring.. Naruto is 530 chapters deep. A little focus on other characters is a great thing in my opinion, although I think it should have been spread out a bit more.
> 
> Right now i enjoy reading quite a few mangas more then Naruto, but as far as overall? Naruto got it in my opinion.



There's a reason why this war is so incredibly boring. I'm fine with side characters sharing a bit of the limelight, as a matter fact... I demand it in a story where both main characters are reduced to mere tropes of overdone teen angst and campy relationships usually found in a yaoi manga. But the way all these reanimated characters are introduced reek of ham-fisted drama driven trough the narration by a sledgehammer as to make up for all the lost potential and to furthermore shoehorn in even more ''heartrending'' moments. By this point, I don't want it anymore. I want it end to end, badly. 

And then there's the problem of bad metaphors....


----------



## MdB (Mar 3, 2011)

The drama in Naruto isn't as terrible as that utter piece of god-awful tragedy porn better known as Angel Beats, but all these pleas of ''PLEASE BE SAD FOR THE CHARACTER WITH THE DYED BLACK HAIR AND THE OTHER ONE WHO'S CRAVING FOR HIS DICK'' are nearing it.


----------



## Sesha (Mar 3, 2011)

The Sage and the Ten-Tails are the worst thing to happen to the series and its lore. Before that we had only gotten relatively minor stuff like Ninja priests and a mass-murdering Satanist cult which were never mentioned again. 



Aldric said:


> The Sage of the Six Paths is just a myth...
> 
> A HUNDRED CHAPTERS LATER
> 
> ...



Also, it turns everyone and their dog are related to the Sage. Apparently unlike the Uchiha and Hyuuga, a genetic trait of the Messiah is to fuck like rabbits. Kishimoto must have read Preacher in the past after creating the first two and had a moral crisis or something.


----------



## armorknight (Mar 3, 2011)

MdB said:


> The drama in Naruto isn't as terrible as that utter piece of god-awful tragedy porn better known as Angel Beats, but all these pleas of ''PLEASE BE SAD FOR THE CHARACTER WITH THE DYED BLACK HAIR AND THE OTHER ONE WHO'S CRAVING FOR HIS DICK'' are nearing it.



The Naruto-Sasuke pseudo-yaoi plot thread is what single handedly destroyed the series in part II. The manga had so much potential at the end of part I, but Kishi destroyed all by trying to appeal to shoujo and yaoi fangirls.


----------



## Han Solo (Mar 3, 2011)

The main problem with Naruto I think, other than that Kishi doesn't give to shits about his manga anymore, is that Kishi is constantly trying to make the manga, character relations and the world building more epic all the time.

But that doesn't work unless this stuff has already been planned out, not just tacked on the end as he thinks of it. Half of the flaws that Naruto has right now is directly due to that.

But yeah, the actual main problem is that Kishi no longer gives a fuck and is just dragging Naruto out to make money.


----------



## MdB (Mar 3, 2011)

Han Solo said:


> The main problem with Naruto I think, other than that Kishi doesn't give to shits about his manga anymore, is that Kishi is constantly trying to make the manga, character relations and the world building more epic all the time.
> 
> But that doesn't work unless this stuff has already been planned out, not just tacked on the end as he thinks of it. Half of the flaws that Naruto has right now is directly due to that.
> 
> But yeah, the actual main problem is that Kishi no longer gives a fuck and is just dragging Naruto out to make money.



The world building is a patchwork of ideas thrown together and seeing what will stick and what will not. It's too incoherent to give a damn.


----------



## Teach (Mar 3, 2011)

Inb4 shitstars enters the thread


----------



## MdB (Mar 3, 2011)

You mean Phenom.


----------



## Neelon (Mar 3, 2011)

WHITEBEARDO is coming. I smell it.


----------



## Luffyfangirl24 (Mar 3, 2011)

Sesha said:


> No one gave a shit about Golden Horn or Silver Horn or Dick Joke or whomever, nor did they exist until just recently, so the recent fight was completely unwarranted.
> 
> Focusing on complete nobodies who are terribly designed and who lack consistency with the series' established lore isn't the same as developing supporting characters. People care about established characters, not some jokers created solely to pad out a half-baked story arc.
> 
> ...



Wow, every thing you said is very true.


----------



## Sabotage (Mar 3, 2011)

Pervy Fox said:


> Problem?



No problem. It's just that Naruto is a shitty manga.


----------



## Haohmaru (Mar 3, 2011)

People are so quick to bash Naruto nowadays. They forgot how awesome it was and why they became a member of this site in the first place. IMO part 1 was by far the best manga in WSJ. Together with One Piece.


----------



## Enigma (Mar 3, 2011)

It used to be my favorite shonen at one point, but that was when I didn't read many in the first place.


----------



## Judge Fudge (Mar 3, 2011)

Can someone please tell me why the fuck this isn't in the complaint thread in the Naruto subforum? Also loling at the people who truly believe Naruto is the worst manga ever, you can do far worse than Naruto if you read more manga but I guess that's what happens when you become too popular


----------



## DarkLordOfKichiku (Mar 3, 2011)

Haohmaru said:


> People are so quick to bash Naruto nowadays. They forgot how awesome it was and why they became a member of this site in the first place. IMO part 1 was by far the best manga in WSJ. Together with One Piece.



That was then. This is now 

But, yes, you're right that Part 1 was very good. Those were good days. A time when both Bleach and Naruto could overshadow One Piece in ways we couldn't imagine today. But alas...


----------



## Judge Fudge (Mar 3, 2011)

^Opinions


----------



## ichigeau (Mar 3, 2011)

Haohmaru said:


> They forgot how awesome it was and why they became a member of this site in the first place.



it always make me laugh people that are like *lol my account is so old and i stoped reading this shit naruto a long time ago lolol im so cool*

its like  why you still even here on a naruto forum ? its like if im going to a twiligh forum to say its shit then talk about politics or some crap.

and they bring the *sub forum/diversity* bullshit excuse, dont try, its looser and you know it


----------



## Judge Fudge (Mar 3, 2011)

^Don't mind them, they're just trying to get with the times because it's cool to hate popular things


----------



## luffy no haki (Mar 3, 2011)

Haohmaru said:


> People are so quick to bash Naruto nowadays. They forgot how awesome it was and why they became a member of this site in the first place. IMO part 1 was by far the best manga in WSJ. Together with One Piece.



Yeah part one was really cool, thugh i joined this forum in the beginning because of the One Piece gif thread


----------



## ichigeau (Mar 3, 2011)

Judge Fudge said:


> ^Don't mind them, they're just trying to get with the times because it's cool to hate popular things



ye thats what i wanted to say to Haohmaru post
when something become popular, it goes to the 2 extreme
1: its being over-rated
2: its being trashed and bashed for no valid reason

you cannot escape it 



luffy no haki said:


> Yeah part one was really cool, thugh i joined this forum in the beginning because of the One Piece gif thread



lol same, i was only going on this site each week for the shippuuden and bleach gif thread before i joined 


oh this thread remind me, there is the new shippuuden episode that is out right now, cant really say much since i only watch the anime


----------



## Raptor (Mar 4, 2011)

Naruto is good.   There were many terrible things of part 2 like the Madara plot no jutsu, Sasuke, everyone and their mom related to the sage of the six paths and so on.   But, it's still somewhat enjoyable.  Tho to be perfectly honest I prefer some of the fanfictions around over the main plot, heh.


----------



## cha-uzu (Mar 4, 2011)

Haohmaru said:


> People are so quick to bash Naruto nowadays. They forgot how awesome it was and why they became a member of this site in the first place. IMO part 1 was by far the best manga in WSJ. Together with One Piece.


I think its just 530 chapters old so many are just Like "Seen it all" so it bores them a bit. I mean when you have people bringing up tsuna, who's the worst and soft as baby thighs... You know its just time thats the problem.


----------



## Aldric (Mar 4, 2011)

ichigeau said:


> it always make me laugh people that are like *lol my account is so old and i stoped reading this shit naruto a long time ago lolol im so cool*
> 
> its like  why you still even here on a naruto forum ? its like if im going to a twiligh forum to say its shit then talk about politics or some crap.
> 
> and they bring the *sub forum/diversity* bullshit excuse, dont try, its looser and you know it



How is it a bullshit excuse

This forum is basically the biggest manga/anime themed forum on the internet, maybe after some dumpster like GAIA 

How retarded would you have to be to think even 50% of the active posters here give a shit about Naruto lol


----------



## Rokudaime (Mar 4, 2011)

Naruto may be far from perfect, but it is still better than a lot of manga outside there. There is a reason why this manga is in Top 5 in Japan, not Top 20.


----------



## Han Solo (Mar 4, 2011)

ichigeau said:


> it always make me laugh people that are like *lol my account is so old and i stoped reading this shit naruto a long time ago lolol im so cool*
> 
> its like  why you still even here on a naruto forum ? its like if im going to a twiligh forum to say its shit then talk about politics or some crap.
> 
> and they bring the *sub forum/diversity* bullshit excuse, dont try, its looser and you know it



Yes, because clearly the biggest English speaking manga/anime forum is solely for discussing Naruto.


----------



## Wolfgang Grimmer (Mar 4, 2011)

That would be Narutoviz. And even then they still have sub-forums for other anime.


----------



## αshɘs (Mar 4, 2011)

the war and peace of mango



ichigeau said:


> it always make me laugh people that are like *lol my account is so old and i stoped reading this shit naruto a long time ago lolol im so cool*
> 
> its like  why you still even here on a naruto forum ? its like if im going to a twiligh forum to say its shit then talk about politics or some crap.
> 
> and they bring the *sub forum/diversity* bullshit excuse, dont try, its looser and you know it



Wrong. Did you actually look around on this forum?
It outgrew "Naruto" long since...



Rokudaime said:


> Naruto may be far from perfect, but it is still better than a lot of manga outside there. There is a reason why this manga is in Top 5 in Japan, not Top 20.



Popularity is hardly the best indicator of quality.

See Twilight


----------



## cha-uzu (Mar 4, 2011)

Aldric said:


> How is it a bullshit excuse
> 
> This forum is basically the biggest manga/anime themed forum on the internet, maybe after some dumpster like GAIA
> 
> How retarded would you have to be to think even 50% of the active posters here give a shit about Naruto lol



Well the Konoha Telegrams pretty much dwarfs all the other sections except Battledome... I don't know what that tell you. Saying YOU don't care about Naruto is cool but making your opinion a fact about the board doesn't make sense.


----------



## Blinky (Mar 4, 2011)

cha-uzu said:


> Well the Konoha Telegrams pretty much dwarfs all the other sections except Battledome... I don't know what that tell you. Saying YOU don't care about Naruto is cool but making your opinion a fact about the board doesn't make sense.



So you're saying that the vast majority of people on this forum post in the Naruto section ?


----------



## MdB (Mar 4, 2011)

ichigeau said:


> it always make me laugh people that are like *lol my account is so old and i stoped reading this shit naruto a long time ago lolol im so cool*
> 
> its like  why you still even here on a naruto forum ? its like if im going to a twiligh forum to say its shit then talk about politics or some crap.
> 
> and they bring the *sub forum/diversity* bullshit excuse, dont try, its looser and you know it



How about you provide an actual argument instead of bullshit excuses to justify Naruto's dwindling quality?


----------



## Punpun (Mar 4, 2011)

Haohmaru said:


> People are so quick to bash Naruto nowadays. They forgot how awesome it was and why they became a member of this site in the first place.



Yeah, no I joined this forum for the HnI and JJBA thread.. I never posted in the Naruto subsection.. I doubt I'm the only one who did that..


----------



## cha-uzu (Mar 4, 2011)

Blinky said:


> So you're saying that the vast majority of people on this forum post in the Naruto section ?


All i'm saying is this...

Konoha Library - Floor 2 = 376,431 Posts;  2,410 Threads

Konoha Library  = 1,573,682 Posts;  32,993 Threads

... One person not liking the manga doesn't speak for everybody else on this forum... least of not, the majority.


----------



## Sabotage (Mar 4, 2011)

MdB said:


> How about you provide an actual argument instead of bullshit excuses to justify Naruto's dwindling quality?



You say that as if Naruto still has quality. 

I mean its not Bleach level yet, but still.


----------



## Neelon (Mar 4, 2011)

cha-uzu said:


> All i'm saying is this...
> 
> Konoha Library - Floor 2 = 376,431 Posts;  2,410 Threads
> 
> ...



There are many people who like Twilight and Fairy tail. And that doesn't mean it's good, not even close.

I also post times to times in the konoha library just to troll sharingans tards. I don't care about the manga itself anymore.

Your post is meaningless.


----------



## Punpun (Mar 4, 2011)

cha-uzu said:


> All i'm saying is this...
> 
> Konoha Library - Floor 2 = 376,431 Posts;  2,410 Threads
> 
> ...



The FC sub section is the one with more posts.. I guess this forum is all about FC then.. :33


----------



## Blinky (Mar 4, 2011)

cha-uzu said:


> All i'm saying is this...
> 
> Konoha Library - Floor 2 = 376,431 Posts;  2,410 Threads
> 
> ...



Have you read any of the posts in this thread ? 

I think there's more than one.


----------



## God Movement (Mar 4, 2011)

naruto = terrible


----------



## Aldric (Mar 4, 2011)

cha-uzu said:


> All i'm saying is this...
> 
> Konoha Library - Floor 2 = 376,431 Posts;  2,410 Threads
> 
> ...



That's a stupid reasoning

If you really wanted to compare you'd have to take numbers from the Naruto Avenue subsection and compare it with all the other subforums, including the Café, the OBD and the Blender

And even if Naruto Avenue was still more active than the addition of every other parts of the forum (which I doubt), it wouldn't change the fact there's plenty of strong activity on sections that have nothing to do with Naruto


----------



## Nightfall (Mar 4, 2011)

I don't know how it progresses, but I couldn't stand MÄR from the very start. Awful concept imo, I doubt it could have gotten that much better...


----------



## cha-uzu (Mar 4, 2011)

Neelon said:


> There are many people who like Twilight and Fairy tail. And that doesn't mean it's good, not even close.
> 
> I also post times to times in the konoha library just to troll sharingans tards. I don't care about the manga itself anymore.
> 
> Your post is meaningless.



You posted with your opinions... I posted with statistical facts meaning EVIDENCE to the contrary. 

Sorry your post lacks Meaning.


----------



## cha-uzu (Mar 4, 2011)

Mandom said:


> The FC sub section is the one with more posts.. I guess this forum is all about FC then.. :33


Naruto tops that list as well. lol Yall need to stop man i'm not saying its the best manga ever made! Just saying I like it and many other do too.


----------



## cha-uzu (Mar 4, 2011)

Blinky said:


> Have you read any of the posts in this thread ?
> 
> I think there's more than one.


Don't care about the other posts if i am posting towards you in particular. If i'm posting to you I am talking about YOU in particular not everyone in this thread. I can count.... but it sweet how you bypassed the numerical evidence and picked one weak area to attack.


----------



## Blinky (Mar 4, 2011)

What the hell are you even saying now ?


----------



## God Movement (Mar 4, 2011)

he's lost it


----------



## cha-uzu (Mar 4, 2011)

Aldric said:


> That's a stupid reasoning
> 
> If you really wanted to compare you'd have to take numbers from the Naruto Avenue subsection and compare it with all the other subforums, including the Café, the OBD and the Blender
> 
> *And even if Naruto Avenue was still more active than the addition of every other parts of the forum *(which I doubt), it wouldn't change the fact there's plenty of strong activity on sections that have nothing to do with Naruto


Which it is! Thanks for pointing that out.


----------



## cha-uzu (Mar 4, 2011)

Blinky said:


> What the hell are you even saying now ?


your a funny dude.

"What the hell are you even saying now ?" translates to, "I really can't prove my point so let me make it seem like i don't understand" 

Just stop man lol


----------



## MdB (Mar 4, 2011)

Douchebag extraordinary


----------



## Blinky (Mar 4, 2011)

God Movement said:


> he's lost it



Clearly. I wasn't even arguing his point (although it was retarded)


----------



## cha-uzu (Mar 4, 2011)

i'm done tho.


----------



## Punpun (Mar 4, 2011)

cha-uzu said:


> Naruto tops that list as well. lol Yall need to stop man i'm not saying its the best manga ever made! Just saying I like it and many other do too.



Irrelevant. FC aren't about Naruto. They're about Character or pairing.


----------



## Blinky (Mar 4, 2011)

.... and now he's calling himself retarded ?


----------



## p-lou (Mar 4, 2011)

yeah man this forum is so tiny only enough space for naruto


----------



## Punpun (Mar 4, 2011)

Blinky said:


> .... and now he's calling himself retarded ?





God Movement said:


> he's lost it



GM was right.. :33


----------



## cha-uzu (Mar 4, 2011)

God Movement said:


> he's lost it



Explain to me how i lost it? Educate me.


----------



## Punpun (Mar 4, 2011)

Not only you're stupid but you are even disrespectful to ill people.. Frankly..


----------



## cha-uzu (Mar 4, 2011)

Mandom said:


> Not only you're stupid but you are even disrespectful to ill people.. Frankly..


How am i stupid? Cause i disagreed with you, GM, Blinky and Mandom? What are you 12?


----------



## MdB (Mar 4, 2011)

I thought you were done. Debating on the internet is what retards do, remember?


----------



## Punpun (Mar 4, 2011)

cha-uzu said:


> How am i stupid? Cause i disagreed with *you*, GM, Blinky and *Mandom*? What are you 12?



Here your answer.


----------



## Bubyrd Ratcatcher (Mar 4, 2011)

Thanks to this thread now i'm starting to understand the real reason behind the existence of the Konoha Cage Library


----------



## cha-uzu (Mar 4, 2011)

MdB said:


> I thought you were done. Debating on the internet is what retards do, remember?


I decided to play around with yall. Have a bit of fun. Cause yall all made comment about me personally, but not about the subject. I wanna see if yall can stay on topic.


----------



## God Movement (Mar 4, 2011)

lol shutup


----------



## cha-uzu (Mar 4, 2011)

God Movement said:


> well for starters you mentioned Mandom twice as both "you" and "Mandom" despite the fact you quoted him.


Touche so... lemme write that down. When you make a name error you are stupid... Ok. That explains it. Anything more? because he called me stupid, before i made that error.


----------



## Edward Newgate (Mar 4, 2011)

lol Cha-Uzu.

Keep it going, guys. It's kinda funny. Although, it's not nice laughing at retarded people


----------



## MdB (Mar 4, 2011)

cha-uzu said:


> I decided to play around with yall. Have a bit of fun. Cause yall all made comment about me personally, but not about the subject. I wanna see if yall can stay on topic.



So you admit that you're a retard then?


----------



## God Movement (Mar 4, 2011)

cha-uzu said:


> Touche so... lemme write that down. When you make a name error you are stupid... Ok. That explains it. Anything more? because he called me stupid, before i made that error.





God Movement said:


> lol shutup


**


----------



## cha-uzu (Mar 4, 2011)

God Movement said:


> lol shutup


Did i lie? lol


----------



## cha-uzu (Mar 4, 2011)

MdB said:


> So you admit that you're a retard then?


wait... what?


----------



## MdB (Mar 4, 2011)

Are you a retard?


----------



## cha-uzu (Mar 4, 2011)

God Movement said:


> **



I read it the first time anything more?


----------



## MdB (Mar 4, 2011)

cha-uzu said:


> i'm done tho.



Retard or not?


----------



## cha-uzu (Mar 4, 2011)

MdB said:


> Are you a retard?


MdB you don't even try do you. Just lob insults and hope thier funny. fuccouttahere LOL


----------



## MdB (Mar 4, 2011)

cha-uzu said:


> i'm done tho.



So are you retarded?


----------



## cha-uzu (Mar 4, 2011)

Yall Negs are too funny. LOL


----------



## p-lou (Mar 4, 2011)

i'm retarded


----------



## Mintaka (Mar 4, 2011)

cha-uzu said:


> I decided to play around with yall. Have a bit of fun. Cause yall all made comment about me personally, but not about the subject. I wanna see if yall can stay on topic.


Lemme get this straight.

You call this retarded yet continue on and then you derail the thread while wondering why it can't stay on topic?

You are either a troll, or you're mental.

Anyway, naruto is shit.  Kishi obviously doesn't give a rats ass about the story anymore and is now just milking it for as much money as he can get out of it's maggot ridden corpse.


----------



## The last Dalek (Mar 4, 2011)

MdB said:


> I thought you were done. Debating on the internet is what *retards* do, remember?



Please dont use that phrase.

Annyway Naruto is not the best manga its not a classic its not even close. But if you think it's terrible or the worst manga ever you either believed the hype and came to it with expectations way to high or simply havn't been reading the truely awful ones.


----------



## MdB (Mar 4, 2011)

The last Dalek said:


> Please dont use that phrase.
> 
> Annyway Naruto is not the best manga its not a classic its not even close. But if you think it's terrible or the worst manga ever you either believed the hype and came to it with expectations way to high or simply havn't been reading the truely awful ones.



Way to jump into something without any knowledge on why I said that. Those are his words, not mine.

And I think it's terrible for many reasons already pointed out in this thread. You're only preaching to the choir.


----------



## Judge Fudge (Mar 4, 2011)

MdB said:


> And I think it's terrible for many reasons already pointed out in this thread. You're only preaching to the choir.


Yes, *you* think it's terrible and that's an issue* you* need to deal with. If you even bothered to read his post he's stating that the people who truly believe it's that bad need to expand their library and read truly bad manga titles. 

Holy fuck, if any eastern fan actually read comments of people who truly hate this series with passion they'll probably die of laughter.


----------



## MdB (Mar 4, 2011)

Judge Fudge said:


> Yes, *you* think it's terrible and that's an issue* you* need to deal with. If you even bothered to read his post he's stating that the people who truly believe it's that bad need to expand their library and read truly bad manga titles.
> 
> Holy fuck, if any eastern fan actually read comments of people who truly hate this series with passion they'll probably die of laughter.


 
You operate on presumptuous behavior that makes your standing rather flimsy. How do you know that everyone who thinks lowly of Naruto is in dire need of expanding their knowledge of awful manga titles? It's an unwarranted claim that entirely depends on sophistry. Furthermore, to think that everyone hates it with a passion is once again baseless and laughable to boot.


----------



## Judge Fudge (Mar 4, 2011)

MdB said:


> You operate on presumptuous behavior that makes your standing rather flimsy.


How so? Are you trying to the deny that 1/3 of the users in the forum aren't retarded? If that's the case then you're incredibly naive.


MdB said:


> How do you know that everyone who thinks lowly of Naruto is in dire need of expanding their knowledge of awful manga titles?


Because most of the stances of this thread I've seen are unfounded and just bitching for the sake of bitching from people who's only read 10 manga in their lifetime, so who are they to put forth a judgment of quality?


MdB said:


> It's an unwarranted claim that entirely depends on sophistry.


It's not. In the end you can't say you've experience something if you've never reach the final horizon. Nobody can and people pushing this stance are truly pathetic


MdB said:


> Furthermore, to think that everyone hates it with a passion is once again baseless and laughable to boot.


Your comments and among others proves otherwise. Anyone who would put the time and effort to post detailing why you hate a comic book series for little boys is laughable


----------



## ichigeau (Mar 4, 2011)

Aldric said:


> How is it a bullshit excuse
> 
> This forum is basically the biggest manga/anime themed forum on the internet, maybe after some dumpster like GAIA
> 
> How retarded would you have to be to think even 50% of the active posters here give a shit about Naruto lol






people feeling targeted ?
freacking hilarious


----------



## Judge Fudge (Mar 4, 2011)

Apparently the truth hurts


----------



## armorknight (Mar 4, 2011)

Naruto isn't quite at the level of truly abysmal shounen like Bleach, KHR! and InuYasha, but it's well on the way there. Especially with all the bullshit Kishi has been pulling recently.


----------



## cbus05 (Mar 4, 2011)

Gotta agree with all the naruto talk.


I still think Part 1 was awesome. Part 1 was focused entirely on building the lore of the world, character developments, and the tension that existed between the ninja of Konoha in a time of turmoil and change. Sasuke is a great rival, but terrible villain. Him randomly going to the dark side and even staying there after killing Itachi is irrational, and even more so, out of character for what his part 1 self would act like. 


Part 1, the side characters rocked, but not because they got fights, because they were developed. Even the really boring Sakura Ino rivalry was important, and relevant in the story. Now you just see random "lets toss the side characters in here just because". No matter how many lasers or awesome techniques I see, I just can't give a crap about the fights in the current arc.... because I don't give a crap about the Characters. There is nothing behind their personality. Darui is just a guy who shoots lasers. Why do I care if he dies or not? It doesn't exactly help that you already know the Rookie 12 are Immortal and can't die anyway. Kishi's main problem with part 1, is he tied all his loose ends too early. He closed the book on each character's "conflicts" way before the story was over, leaving only Sasuke, Sakura, and Naruto as the only characters with unresolved conflict. Had he re-developed issues for the Konoha 12 separately at the start of part 2, then it may have worked, but all it became was Sasuke saying "lol, I'm evil, and I'm brooding, and I wan't to kill my brother even though I know it won't solve anything." Then Naruto saying "This guy is my rival and friend, but he screwed me over, screwed over the rest of Konoha, but it's okay, because I still want to force him to do something he doesn't want to do."

:


----------



## MdB (Mar 4, 2011)

Judge Fudge said:


> How so? Are you trying to the deny that 1/3 of the users in the forum aren't retarded? If that's the case then you're incredibly naive.



You're working with overgeneralizations and nevertheless call me naive? I hope that you're aware of the irony you trot out at this moment. 

Not to mention you attack ideas I don't have, because if you'd read my post carefully, you could see that I never said anything regarding your question about the users on this board being retarded or not. It's irrelevant, so why bring it up?



Judge Fudge said:


> Because most of the stances of this thread I've seen are unfounded and just bitching for the sake of bitching from people who's only read 10 manga in their lifetime, so who are they to put forth a judgment of quality?



Again, how do you know all of that? You're making this up as you go considering the only thing you resort to are fallback arguments like this one. People have voiced their issues with Naruto in this thread, but if you can't seem to handle that, then it's your problem and not that of others.



Judge Fudge said:


> It's not. In the end you can't say you've experience something if you've never reach the final horizon. Nobody can and people pushing this stance are truly patheticirrelevantirrelevant



First of all, what do you even mean by reaching the final horrizon? If my interpretation is correct, it's another baseless assertion that would require one to read every piece of fiction that has ever been written to fully assess the merits and flaws of a story, which is downright nonsensical.



Judge Fudge said:


> Your comments and among others proves otherwise



And here we have another strong argument. What is your next tactic? ''Haters are gonna hate?''


----------



## Haohmaru (Mar 4, 2011)

To all the people that didn't register for Naruto, you know you're waaaaay outnumbered by the ones that did. I get you though. I didn't register for Naruto either (not on NF at least). 
Also compared to other shounen, I would still consider Naruto as one of the better ones. I don't think it's fair to compare Naruto to something like Vinland Saga, Akira, REAL etc. Seinen are written for another audience. So I'm really only comparing Naruto to other Shounen. If you look at all the shitty shounen that have come out since Naruto, you'd expect people to respect Naruto more. How long has Naruto been running in WSJ? 12 years? In that time there hasn't been like what, 5 good manga's. And don't let me start with other shounen magazines. Fairy Tail lol. Ippo has become shit as well (writer really fucked himself with the Miyata and Wolly fights). 
So if I would compare Naruto to other shounen manga's I would probably put it around 5th place or something. Stuff like HxH, Slam Dunk, DB are simply better.


----------



## cha-uzu (Mar 4, 2011)

Tokoyami said:


> Lemme get this straight.
> 
> You call this retarded yet continue on and then you derail the thread while wondering why it can't stay on topic?
> 
> ...


first, no I didn't call this retarded... I posted a picture about arguing on the net being retarded. Number two, I wasn't the one taking it off topic. "Naruto compared to other manga" is the topic. And thats all I did. I replied to others that took it beyond Naruto and other manga's.


----------



## Judge Fudge (Mar 4, 2011)

MdB said:


> You're working with *overgeneralizations* and nevertheless call me naive? I hope that you're aware of the *irony* you trot out at this moment.


What in your post actually made sense? I'm saying your naive for believing that every stance against the series is accurate and not just mindlessly hating on it. There's no generalization in something that's common in popularity


MdB said:


> Not to mention you attack ideas I don't have, because if you'd read my post carefully, you could see that I never said anything regarding your question about the users on this board being retarded or not. It's irrelevant, so why bring it up?


And what does this have to do with anything? It's like you dash away points you disagree with and then go on a rant as to why they're irrelevant. You didn't any answer my question for one so I don't even know what you're going on about.



MdB said:


> Again, how do you know all of that?


That's an incredible stupid question and only proves how weak your own assumption is if you truly believe every point against the series that's been posted is valid  



MdB said:


> You're making this up as you go considering the only thing you resort to are fallback arguments like this one.


What fallback argument? Do you like to repetitively throw out random terms or you generally don't know what you're talking about


MdB said:


> People have voiced their issues with Naruto in this thread, but if you can't seem to handle that, then it's your problem and not that of others.


Again. 


Judge Fudge said:


> Yes, *you* think it's terrible and that's an issue* you* need to deal with.


So you basically reforted what I said two post ago. All I'm and many other users are commenting on the absurdity of the posts in this thread and generally people like you trying to push their opinions as fact, which in itself is pathetic, it seems like you can't deal with people calling bullshit on your stances.


MdB said:


> First of all, what do you even mean by reaching the final horrizon?



It's horizon sweetie, spell check is not that hard to use. Basically you can't say a mosquito bite is worst pain in the world to someone who just got shot with a bullet, you can't say broccoli is the worst tasting thing in the world to someone who's eaten dung, it's unethical to cite something as the worst when your general knowledge on what is bad is limited. It's just a baseless opinion.


MdB said:


> If my interpretation is correct, it's another baseless assertion that would require one to read every piece of fiction that has ever been written to fully assess the merits and flaws of a story, which is downright nonsensical.


And this is complete bullshit nor what I meant at all.




MdB said:


> And here we have another strong argument.


Care to prove me wrong? Of course you can't


MdB said:


> What is your next tactic? ''Haters are gonna hate?''


At this point yes, in your case ignorance is bliss


----------



## Narcissus (Mar 4, 2011)

Naruto became garbage after part 2. The writing was sloppy, there were only a few interesting characters, a lot of the fights felt lazy, and the story was just a mess. Seriously, in part 1 it was a decent manga that felt like it was going in a steady direction until about the end of it. Now it has turned into complete drivel with little redeeming values.

It may not be the worst manga in existence, but it doesn't have to be the worst to still be bad.


----------



## Mintaka (Mar 4, 2011)

ichigeau said:


> people feeling targeted ?
> freacking hilarious


I only told you the truth as I see it.  I should have however made it an you're not a your.


----------



## Judge Fudge (Mar 4, 2011)

People need to remember that these shounen manga are popular primarily because they're easy reads Japanese Businessmen and popular with kids, they don't take it as seriously as the western fandom seem to have taken to heart. Stop getting upset over a comic book for kids and read something your own age, if you can't have fun with something why read it?



Tokoyami said:


> I only told you the truth as I see it.  I should have however made it an you're not a your.


In short you were butthurt because someone thought differently than you. What are you twelve?


----------



## Narcissus (Mar 4, 2011)

Judge Fudge said:


> People need to remember that these shounen manga are popular primarily because they're easy reads Japanese Businessmen and popular with kids, they don't take it as seriously as the western fandom seem to have taken to heart. Stop getting upset over a comic book for kids and read something your own age, if you can't have fun with something why read it?



Because that's no excuse for bad or lazy writing, and a work of fiction being created for the purpose of fun entertainment does not mean it is automatically free from criticism.

There is a difference between reading/watching/playing something for superficial fun and having to endure something cringe-worthy.


----------



## Mintaka (Mar 4, 2011)

> In short you were butthurt because someone thought differently than you. What are you twelve?


Do you even know what neg reps are for?

If you disagree with the post, you can give a neg rep and I disagreed with the post.  It has nothing to do with being butthurt.

I am however quite amused that you negged me back.


----------



## Judge Fudge (Mar 4, 2011)

Narcissus said:


> Because that's no excuse for bad or lazy writing


Opinion. Granted Naruto is a victim of this but so is almost every shounen at one point.


Narcissus said:


> and a work of fiction being created for the purpose of fun entertainment does not mean it is automatically free from criticism.


Of course. But it's nonsensical to to give it marks in areas you shouldn't expect from it given it's target audience. It's like citing that you hate watching Dora The Explorer because the writing is stilted and repetitive  


Narcissus said:


> There is a difference between reading/watching/playing something for superficial fun and having to endure something cringe-worthy.


But then why would you could to read it if you aren't having fun? A quality of a manga have very little to do with how much fun you have reading it, I love reading BASTARD! but it's a fucking trainwreck and the mangaka is a lazy bastard would a normal person put up with it the same way?


Tokoyami said:


> Do you even know what neg reps are for?
> 
> If you disagree with the post, you can give a neg rep and I disagreed with the post.  It has nothing to do with being butthurt.


So instead of going up against my point with your own rebuttal you just negged me because you didn't like it? That sounds butthurt to me kid


----------



## Haohmaru (Mar 4, 2011)

Tokoyami said:


> Do you even know what neg reps are for?
> 
> If you disagree with the post, you can give a neg rep and I disagreed with the post.  It has nothing to do with being butthurt.
> 
> I am however quite amused that you negged me back.


For someone that negs for disagreeing with something, you aren't that bright. He obviously negged you back for disagreeing, with your disagreement 

So people nowadays neg for disagreeing  There must be a LOT of negs going around on this site.


----------



## Judge Fudge (Mar 4, 2011)

Haohmaru said:


> For someone that negs for disagreeing with something, you aren't that bright. He obviously negged you back for disagreeing, with your disagreement
> 
> So people nowadays neg for disagreeing  There must be a LOT of negs going around on this site.



Whatever happen to the days where people weren't afraid to argue on the internet


----------



## MdB (Mar 4, 2011)

Judge Fudge said:


> What in your post actually made sense? I'm saying your naive for believing that every stance against the series is accurate and not just mindlessly hating on it. There's no generalization in something that's common in popularity



But there is a sweeping generalization when you claim the detractors to be mindlessly hating on Naruto without elaborating and not taking their criticism into account. Naivety is absolute bullshit since it once again stems from something I never said nor implied. 



Judge Fudge said:


> And what does this have to do with anything? It's like you dash away points you disagree with and then go on a rant as to why they're irrelevant. You didn't any answer my question for one so I don't even know what you're going on about.



You can read can you? Don't ask me what this has to do with anything, after all you where the one who brought it up. What's more confusing though, is why I have to answer something that's irrelevant and futhermore, something that you deemed as pointless. Right now you're not making any sense.



Judge Fudge said:


> That's an incredible stupid question and only proves how weak your own assumption is if you truly believe every point against the series that's been posted is valid



Did I said that? No, I didn't. It seems like your projecting your own insecuries onto me, it's pathetic, really.



Judge Fudge said:


> What fallback argument? Do you like to repetitively throw out random terms or you generally don't know what you're talking about



The fact that you call most of the criticism ''bitching'' for example while never adressing the said criticism in the first place. However, if you want to say that I'm randomly throwing out terms, then fine, I take that as a concession.



Judge Fudge said:


> Again.
> 
> So you basically reforted what I said two post ago. All I'm and many other users are commenting on the absurdity of the posts in this thread and generally people like you trying to push their opinions as fact, which in itself is pathetic, it seems like you can't deal with people calling bullshit on your stances.



Except this isn't true at all. I simply gave my opinion on Naruto. Whether you want to interpret it as a factual statement or not is wholly an issue you have to deal with yourself. And the same applies to the other posts from users with like-minded opinions. It's also ironic that you call others pathetic when you yourself are pushing your own opinion so vehemently inside my throat. Double standards are fun, aren't they?



Judge Fudge said:


> It's horizon sweetie, spell check is not that hard to use. Basically you can't say a mosquito bite is worst pain in the world to someone who just got shot with a bullet, you can't say broccoli is the worst tasting thing in the world to someone who's eaten dung, it's unethical to cite something as the worst when your general knowledge on what is bad is limited. It's just a baseless opinion.



It was a typo. Who cares? Moreover, your analogy is flawed since plenty of people criticised Naruto on the basis of its flaws without calling it the worst thing to be ever written on paper, so to only use the opposite ends of a spectrum is pointless and silly.



Judge Fudge said:


> And this is complete bullshit nor what I meant at all.



You shouldn't have used a bad metaphor then.  



Judge Fudge said:


> Care to prove me wrong? Of course you can't



Ever heard of the burden of proof and what it stands for? 



Judge Fudge said:


> At this point yes, in your case ignorance is bliss



And that's supposed to be a valid counter-argument when you still haven't told me why my criticism is invalid?


----------



## Samavarti (Mar 4, 2011)

Naruto is just your average mediocre Shounen series,  certainly, isn't the worst shounen manga, but that dosn't change the fact that is a bad manga, especially since part 2, and there are a lot of shounens far better than Naruto.


----------



## Narcissus (Mar 4, 2011)

Judge Fudge said:


> Opinion. Granted Naruto is a victim of this but so is almost every shounen at one point.



That isn't a valid argument. "Other shounen have had bad writing" does not excuse Naruto's, especially when there are plenty of shounen with better writing in general.


> Of course. But it's nonsensical to to give it marks in areas you shouldn't expect from it given it's target audience. It's like citing that you hate watching Dora The Explorer because the writing is stilted and repetitive



Yeah, but it still gets bad marks in areas where it should at least be decent. Kishimoto pretty much threw a lot of opportunities for character development away and made some pretty bad decisions plot-wise.


> But then why would you could to read it if you aren't having fun? A quality of a manga have very little to do with how much fun you have reading it, I love reading BASTARD! but it's a fucking trainwreck and the mangaka is a lazy bastard would a normal person put up with it the same way?



Who said I was still reading it? And if I was, there are plenty of reasons I could still read it.

I stopped reading Bleach after it became too unbearable.
I am not reading Naruto right now.
I do plan to finish Naruto through, but only because I want to see it through. 

If I go to the theater and see a bad movie, I don't walk out on it. I just give my criticism after it's over. And maybe I find the fun in the criticism.


----------



## jux (Mar 4, 2011)

This thread 

OP should restrict it to shounen manga, because it's difficult to compare Naruto with the likes of senien or shoujo when there are different restrictions, leniencies and target audience. That being said, Naruto is a generic popular manga. It's part 1 was quality, which is what propelled the popularity it has today, but the likes of part 2 really disintegrated. In terms of writing, characterization, art and originality, shounens such as FullMetal Alchemist, One Piece, HxH, Kenshin and Soul Eater beat Naruto out by a long shot. It's certainly not the worst series though. [see Bleach, KHR, Fairytail, Inuyasha for that]

Though I still read Naruto as it entertains me enough, and I'm reading just to see how it all goes down.


----------



## Animeblue (Mar 4, 2011)

*It would be better to compare Naruto with other coming of age Shounen manga likes Hikaru no Go or Katekyo Hitman Reborn*


----------



## Judge Fudge (Mar 4, 2011)

MdB said:


> But there is a sweeping generalization when you claim the detractors to be mindlessly hating on Naruto without elaborating and not taking their criticism into account.


I never said Naruto was a flawless and devoid of any or all criticism, I called you naive because you seem to believe every point against it is legit which makes actually makes you more of a jackass. It's not bullshit when you continuously deny this.  



MdB said:


> You can read can you? Don't ask me what this has to do with anything, after all you where the one who brought it up.


And you failed to address the point again hence why I asked you the question, you're one to quickly call irrelevancy on a topic but for some odd reason fail to establish your own point? 


MdB said:


> Right now you're not making any sense.



So I'm not making any sense ioer your own failure to make a rebuttal?




MdB said:


> Did I said that? No, I didn't. It seems like your projecting your own insecuries onto me, it's pathetic, really.


And now you're backtracking. you're not very good at sustaining an half decent argument for long I see.




MdB said:


> The fact that you call most of the criticism ''bitching'' for example while never adressing the said criticism in the first place. However, if you want to say that I'm randomly throwing out terms, then fine, I take that as a concession.


You can't read? I already gave my stance as to the majority of the points given against it throughout the thread. You seem to be in your own little world trying to save face from something you never even bothered to put forth your own.




MdB said:


> Except this isn't true at all. I simply gave my opinion on Naruto. Whether you want to interpret it as a factual statement or not is wholly an issue you have to deal with yourself.


But you're wrong to begin with but of course you would never admit it yourself. All your posts in regards are pushing them as facts and every time someone tries to be for it you reek it to tell them they're wrong, there's no interpretation when the action is right in front of you kid, but once again....


MdB said:


> And the same applies to the other posts from users with like-minded opinions. It's also ironic that you call others pathetic when you yourself are pushing your own opinion so vehemently inside my throat. Double standards are fun, aren't they?


Actually your stance is unfounded since I haven't given an opinion for Naruto throughout the argument, just though that people who believed it's the worst manga ever is an absurd statement altogether but then again your reading comprehension was never great to begin with




MdB said:


> Moreover, your analogy is flawed since plenty of people criticised Naruto on the basis of its flaws without calling it the worst thing to be ever written on paper,



This entire thread goes against this statement and only enforces my stance that you've been talking out your ass and only hearing what you want to hear, even you yourself are a victim of this. Hypocritical much?


MdB said:


> so to only use the opposite ends of a spectrum is pointless and silly.


Only nothing in your argument made sense to begin with which kinda leaves this moot all together




MdB said:


> You shouldn't have used a bad *metaphor* then.


Except it wasn't a metaphor to begin with, and still using random terms you don't know the meaning of? 



MdB said:


> And that's supposed to be a valid counter-argument when you still haven't told me why my criticism is invalid?


I detailed two post spent arguing with you as to why you're full shit of shit but you're failed to refute your stance as to why you're criticism is right, so what's the point if you're just gonna be ignorant about it all together?


----------



## Judge Fudge (Mar 4, 2011)

Narcissus said:


> That isn't a valid argument. "Other shounen have had bad writing" does not excuse Naruto's, especially when there are plenty of shounen with better writing in general.


Actually I was agreeing with you but just pointing out the fact that you won't expect a great deal of quality writing in shounen given the demographic it mostly have to abide to. If you can name me a shounen that's remained consistently well written throughout it's run I'd like to see it, the only one that comes to mind for me is Hoshin Engi. 



Narcissus said:


> Yeah, but it still gets bad marks in areas where it should at least be decent. Kishimoto pretty much threw a lot of opportunities for character development away and made some pretty bad decisions plot-wise.


Which are all valid criticisms 


Narcissus said:


> If I go to the theater and see a bad movie, I don't walk out on it. I just give my criticism after it's over. And maybe I find the fun in the criticism.


But then you just wasted 2 hours watching a bad movie


----------



## Edward Newgate (Mar 5, 2011)

> Actually I was agreeing with you but just pointing out the fact that you won't expect a great deal of quality writing in shounen given the demographic it mostly have to abide to. If you can name me a shounen that's remained consistently well written throughout it's run I'd like to see it, the only one that comes to mind for me is Hoshin Engi.


How about FMA?


----------



## Unknown (Mar 5, 2011)

Edward Newgate said:


> How about FMA?



It's about the best you can find in a shonen.
That doesn't mean that Naruto is a bad shounen, just that isn't in the top of shounen quality. 

Naruto is better than the average shounen, but It's not among the bests.


----------



## Han Solo (Mar 5, 2011)

What shounen are worse then? Code: Breaker, Bleach, Fairy Tail, Air Gear, Inuyasha and Katekyo Hitman Reborn are the only ones that immediately come to mind. Meanwhile, I can list a hell of a lot more shounen better than Naruto, rather than worse, which would make Naruto below standards by definition.

But then again, I don't tend to read that much shounen, and certainly there are titles in Japan that simply don't get scanned, so maybe Naruto does end up in the middle or so for shounen. But that's more of a knock on shounen than a compliment for Naruto if you ask me.


----------



## MdB (Mar 5, 2011)

Judge Fudge said:


> I never said Naruto was a flawless and devoid of any or all criticism, I called you naive because you seem to believe every point against it is legit which makes actually makes you more of a jackass. It's not bullshit when you continuously deny this.



Which shows your inability to comprehend since I never said nor implied that all the criticism toward Naruto comes from a rational standpoint. How about you actually take the time to read what others say instead of irrationaly calling everyone naive under the pretence of a stupid red herring?



Judge Fudge said:


> And you failed to address the point again hence why I asked you the question, you're one to quickly call irrelevancy on a topic but for some odd reason fail to establish your own point?



Why do I have to adress something that's irrelevant, and a red herring to boot?



Judge Fudge said:


> So I'm not making any sense ioer your own failure to make a rebuttal?



Read above. 

Also, ''ioer'' isn't a word, Grammar Nazi.



Judge Fudge said:


> And now you're backtracking. you're not very good at sustaining an half decent argument for long I see.



Red herring isn't an argument, it's a fallacy. So good job acting like a dimwit.



Judge Fudge said:


> You can't read? I already gave my stance as to the majority of the points given against it throughout the thread. You seem to be in your own little world trying to save face from something you never even bothered to put forth your own.



Your stand amounts to ''you're all wrong, because I say so.'' Something a seventeen-year-old douchebag would say when he can't win an argument but instead throws an e-tantrum. My rebuttal holds true as long as you fail to adres the actual criticism that you neglect as pointless. 



Judge Fudge said:


> But you're wrong to begin with but of course you would never admit it yourself. All your posts in regards are pushing them as facts and every time someone tries to be for it you reek it to tell them they're wrong, there's no interpretation when the action is right in front of you kid, but once again....



And here we have another classic example of rabid fanboyism. ''I'm right because I say so'' is a failure on your part to refute a counter-argument. I take that as a concession. Good job on that, kiddo.



Judge Fudge said:


> Actually your stance is unfounded since I haven't given an opinion for Naruto throughout the argument, just though that people who believed it's the worst manga ever is an absurd statement altogether but then again your reading comprehension was never great to begin with



Even a first-grader has a better grasp of logic and reasoning than you. Your stance on Naruto as you call it yourself is once again completely irrelevant because it serves as a diverting point to ignore my argument, namely your bullshit accusations of forcing opinions down someone's throat. Keep trying kiddo, you seem to get very desperate now.



Judge Fudge said:


> This entire thread goes against this statement and only enforces my stance that you've been talking out your ass and only hearing what you want to hear, even you yourself are a victim of this. Hypocritical much?



Again, failing to adres anything I said. I take that as your second concession.



Judge Fudge said:


> Only nothing in your argument made sense to begin with which kinda leaves this moot all together


 
So the kid is now conceding. How cute. 



Judge Fudge said:


> Except it wasn't a metaphor to begin with, and still using random terms you don't know the meaning of?





Keep that telling yourself that.



Judge Fudge said:


> I detailed two post spent arguing with you as to why you're full shit of shit but you're failed to refute your stance as to why you're criticism is right, so what's the point if you're just gonna be ignorant about it all together?



Ah, telling me why I'm full of shit without even elaborating on why my argumentation is lacking in logic.


----------



## The last Dalek (Mar 5, 2011)

Oh for gods sake non of you would be bitching about Naruto or Bleach or Reborn or anny other series like them if they werent as populer as they are. Thats for two reasons

1: You cant stand the fact that lots of people like and overate these series that you hate and feel the need to go on about how crap they are just to try and make those that do like feel bad about likeing it. There not very good but other people love it deel with it.

2: For some stupid ass reason it's become cool to hate annything populer or mainstream (lowest common denominator is the stupidist criticism Ive ever heard).  Mabey it's because makes you feel special or better then other people for having better taste then them. 

I personaly think Black Cat is better then all of the sereis I mentiond put together put together (and no thats not fact it's my opinion and nothing more) but if it was as big as them you would all bitching about how it sucks.


----------



## legoffjacques (Mar 5, 2011)

The last Dalek said:


> Oh for gods sake non of you would be bitching about Naruto or Bleach or Reborn or anny other series like them if they werent as populer as they are. Thats for two reasons
> 
> 1: You cant stand the fact that lots of people like and overate these series that you hate and feel the need to go on about how crap they are just to try and make those that do like feel bad about likeing it. There not very good but other people love it deel with it.
> 
> ...



The fact is popular doesn't mean we cannot criticize it.With the widespread liking that people have for it it's only natural that some persons will disagree with the majority's choice, Compared to others manga it's true that there are worse titles but overall naruto is just below average


----------



## Twinsen (Mar 5, 2011)

The last Dalek said:


> Oh for gods sake non of you would be bitching about Naruto or Bleach or Reborn or anny other series like them if they werent as populer as they are. Thats for two reasons
> 
> 1: You cant stand the fact that lots of people like and overate these series that you hate and feel the need to go on about how crap they are just to try and make those that do like feel bad about likeing it. There not very good but other people love it deel with it.
> 
> ...



Deal with it? This is a thread about discussing Naruto's quality compared to other manga's and you're raging when people here are giving their opinions? 

All that talk about "hating the popular stuff is cool" is just BS. The clear cut fact is that most mainstream stuff just plain sucks. Of course people are gonna hate on them since eventually the mainstream will create the new norm, and the quality of all media will plummet like diarrhea. Just look at the music business, 90% of all the mainstream music is autotuned shit, because people still eat it up, no need to even try anymore. Hell I just heard Kim Kardashian's new single, and I'd rather listen to a cat being tortured than that shit again. Thankfully that video had a nice red dislike bar, I guess there is some hope left.


----------



## The last Dalek (Mar 5, 2011)

Twinsen said:


> Deal with it? This is a thread about discussing Naruto's quality compared to other manga's and you're raging when people here are giving their opinions?
> 
> All that talk about "hating the popular stuff is cool" is just BS. The clear cut fact is that most mainstream stuff just plain sucks. Of course people are gonna hate on them since eventually the mainstream will create the new norm, and the quality of all media will plummet like diarrhea. Just look at the music business, 90% of all the mainstream music is autotuned shit, because people still eat it up, no need to even try anymore. Hell I just heard Kim Kardashian's new single, and I'd rather listen to a cat being tortured than that shit again. Thankfully that video had a nice red dislike bar, I guess there is some hope left.



Bullshit I dont like most mainstream but most people love it so they must be somthing right.

You insult people for likeing somthing mainstream and subject them to long list of reasons why there wrong for likeing. because it makes feel like your more special then them.


It's not the fact that people insult things mainstream *it's the fact that they do it for no other reason then to make it's fans feel bad about likeing it.*

Maybe it's just my autism making me interpourite what you type wrong but thats the way it comes off to me.

I wasnt so much raging about this thread but the internets atitude in general.


----------



## Twinsen (Mar 5, 2011)

The last Dalek said:


> Bullshit I dont like most mainstream but most people love it so they must be somthing right.



No, it really doesn't. Popularity has nothing or very little to do with quality nowadays. And while quality is a very subjective term, most people with even some intelligence can see the quality of any media in an objective way. For example some person might personally like Naruto very much, but still know that compared to many other manga's it's quality is quite bad.



> You insult people for likeing somthing mainstream and subject them to long list of reasons why there wrong for likeing. because it makes feel like your more special then them.



First of all, I never insulted anyone in my post. And I certainly don't think I'm more special than people who love mainstream media. All I'm talking about is the quality of the media itself.



> It's not the fact that people insult things mainstream *it's the fact that they do it for no other reason then to make it's fans feel bad about likeing it.*



I already gave you a reason why I think mainstream media for the most part is bad. It downgrades the quality of the media in general. 10 years from now our music billboards over the world could all be from people who can't even hit the right tones, much less write their own songs.


----------



## The last Dalek (Mar 5, 2011)

Twinsen said:


> First of all, I never insulted anyone in my post. And I certainly don't think I'm more special than people who love mainstream media. All I'm talking about is the quality of the media itself.



I didnt meen you specificly but I was talking about alot of people in generel. Admitantly a probably shouldnt have come to this thread first thing after watching Distressed Wathcer say everyone who likes revenge of the fallen should be sent to a concentration camp (fallen was a crapy film but what he said was disgusting). I kind of had people with that attitude in mind when I came here.

As I said I missinterperit what people say.


----------



## Narcissus (Mar 5, 2011)

Judge Fudge said:


> Actually I was agreeing with you but just pointing out the fact that you won't expect a great deal of quality writing in shounen given the demographic it mostly have to abide to. If you can name me a shounen that's remained consistently well written throughout it's run I'd like to see it, the only one that comes to mind for me is Hoshin Engi.


 
I get all of that, but I'm saying that I expect at least some decent level of writing. FMA accomplishes this, in both the anime and manga. Naruto's flaws have become so bad they they fall under the set bar.

I'm not asking the authors to put as much care into their manga as Stephen Sondheim places into his lyrics, or as Maya Angelou put into her writing. I just expect at least a consistent and interesting story. Kishimoto often fails at this.


> But then you just wasted 2 hours watching a bad movie
> 
> 
> Narcissus said:
> ...



Bolded part is important. Besides, I am aware that I am sitting through a crappy movie, but I don't plan to just walk out because I've already invested in it.


The last Dalek said:


> Oh for gods sake non of you would be bitching about Naruto or Bleach or Reborn or anny other series like them if they werent as populer as they are.



*Appeal to motive fallacy:* _a pattern of argument which consists in challenging a thesis by calling into question the motives of its proposer._

You completely ignore any reasoning behind the criticisms given in this thread by trying to accuse everyone of complaining because it's popular. There are valid reasons why Naruto and Bleach (haven't read Reborn) are so awful, and it's not their popularity. If you'd actually read the thread, you'd know this.


> Bullshit I dont like most mainstream but most people love it so they must be somthing right.



Appeal to popularity. The majority liking or agreeing with something doesn't make it "right." Or one could call Twilight a good series.


----------



## Syed (Mar 5, 2011)

Naruto isn`t that great. Part 1 was better than part 2 etc. But the war is pretty well done imo. 

To rank with other Shonen I would say it should be an average Shonen manga. This includes the likes of One Piece (mediocre now) and Bleach (slowest Shonen manga). Heck the whole Shonen genre is pretty lack luster once people think about it. It`s more constricted than say Seinen where you have potential for more development of the plot and characters in more creative ways. 

Top Shonens for me are FMA, Getbackers, Yu Yu Hakusho, Vinland saga and JoJo.


----------



## Crimson Dragoon (Mar 5, 2011)

Naruto is obviously the War and Peace of manga


----------



## The last Dalek (Mar 5, 2011)

Narcissus said:


> Appeal to popularity. The majority liking or agreeing with something doesn't make it "right." Or one could call Twilight a good series.



So your saying there wrong for likeing it? 

I cant stand Twilight but I hate that attitude.

If you red (I know thats the wrong spelling) my other posts you would know I dont think Naruto is very good I find it merely OK. It just comes off to me that people do it just make those who like it feel bad.

*Maby it's just me completely misinterpreting peoples post.*


----------



## Shock Therapy (Mar 5, 2011)

naruto's not garbage like bleach but that's not saying much


----------



## Judge Fudge (Mar 5, 2011)

MdB  said:


> stuff



Trying to get your point across hours after the fact is pretty pathetic


----------



## The Doctor (Mar 5, 2011)

naruto is the worst thing ever

it sucks

i hate it with passion

i'm a hater

naruto sucks dongs


----------



## Pervy Fox (Mar 5, 2011)

The Doctor said:


> naruto is the worst thing ever
> 
> it sucks
> 
> ...



You dont read alot of manga do you?


----------



## Blinky (Mar 5, 2011)

Someone's sarcasm detector is on the fritz.


----------



## The Doctor (Mar 5, 2011)

Pervy Fox said:


> You dont read alot of manga do you?



You dont go out a lot do you?


----------



## MdB (Mar 5, 2011)

Judge Fudge said:


> Trying to get your point across hours after the fact is pretty pathetic



I'm supposed to offer my sleep for a debate on the internet? Either way, concession accepted. You're a terrible debater. Now go smear some ointment on that ass of yours.


----------



## MdB (Mar 5, 2011)

The Doctor said:


> You dont go out a lot do you?



TB

Look at his profile

Just look at it


----------



## Sylar (Mar 5, 2011)

Judge Fudge said:


> Trying to get your point across hours after the fact is pretty pathetic



You cannot be serious.


----------



## ShiggyDiggyDoo (Mar 5, 2011)

Han Solo said:


> What shounen are worse then? Code: Breaker, *Bleach*, Fairy Tail, Air Gear, Inuyasha and *Katekyo Hitman Reborn* are the only ones that immediately come to mind. Meanwhile, I can list a hell of a lot more shounen better than Naruto, rather than worse, which would make Naruto below standards by definition.
> 
> But then again, I don't tend to read that much shounen, and certainly there are titles in Japan that simply don't get scanned, so maybe Naruto does end up in the middle or so for shounen. But that's more of a knock on shounen than a compliment for Naruto if you ask me.



How in the world can you call the bolded worse? Bleach is arguable but has been slowly getting better currently and KHR has been better than Naruto and One Piece since like Chapter 61 in the manga. Sure it's pretty much unbearable up until that point but it gets WAY better later on in the series.


----------



## MdB (Mar 5, 2011)

Reborn is worse than Bleach.


----------



## ShiggyDiggyDoo (Mar 5, 2011)

If we're talking about early on in the manga, then yes, it is much worser than Bleach.


----------



## MdB (Mar 5, 2011)

I don't know what's worse, Tsuna versus Byakuran or Aizen versus basically everyone. The same can be said about the Future arc or the Hueco Mundo arc.


----------



## armorknight (Mar 5, 2011)

Spartan1337 said:


> If we're talking about early on in the manga, then yes, it is much worser than Bleach.



Reborn is a psuedo-shounen bishie fest made to appeal to retarded fangirls. Naruto is a fucking masterpiece compared to bullshit like KHR.

And the early parts of KHR were the best parts, although they were terrible as well. The series got worse and worse as time went on and went straight to hell with the future arc.


----------



## Narcissus (Mar 5, 2011)

The last Dalek said:


> So your saying there wrong for likeing it?



No. People can like whatever they want to, no matter if it's good or bad. But trying to argue that something is good when it is horrible is something completely different.


> I cant stand Twilight but I hate that attitude.
> 
> If you red (I know thats the wrong spelling) my other posts you would know I dont think Naruto is very good I find it merely OK. It just comes off to me that people do it just make those who like it feel bad.
> 
> *Maby it's just me completely misinterpreting peoples post.*



I read all of your posts, and even pointed out two fallacies in two seperate ones. But what I'm telling you is that even if that is your opinion, you can't use it in an argument because it ignores everyone who made valid points in the thread.


Spartan1337 said:


> How in the world can you call the bolded worse? Bleach is arguable but has been slowly getting better currently and KHR has been better than Naruto and One Piece since like Chapter 61 in the manga. Sure it's pretty much unbearable up until that point but it gets WAY better later on in the series.



Haven't read KHR, but Bleach is significantly worse than Naruto for a plethora of reasons. At its worse, the characters are amazingly bland, the fight are boring and drag on, the art is lazy, the story is repetitive and goes nowhere, the dialogue is pretentious and awful. I could go on...


----------



## Judge Fudge (Mar 5, 2011)

Narcissus said:


> No. People can like whatever they want to, no matter if it's good or bad. *But trying to argue that something is good when it is horrible is something completely different.*


And vice versa. In the end there's no true measure of quality in these type of manga, they're just fun time wasters in their country of origin, whether you think one is the worst thing ever or the best thing is purely based on particular taste and expectations. Taking them seriously is silly.


----------



## Judge Fudge (Mar 5, 2011)

Abigail said:


> HEY GUIZE, HE'S NOT ON 24/7 SO HE'S WRONG.


HEY GUYS HE'S BUMPING A DAY OLD COMMENT AND EXPECTS TO BE TAKEN SERIOUSLY AFTER EVERYONE HAS LEFT.

This is how stupid you sound

Congrats 



Abigail said:


> This is what your "argument" breaks down to.
> 
> Congrats.


So apparently you and MdB are butt buddies since that's the only way I can see anyone giving a shit about what we were "arguing" about


----------



## The Doctor (Mar 6, 2011)

Judge Fudge, you're an idiot.

Seriously,



Judge Fudge said:


> HEY GUYS HE'S BUMPING A DAY OLD COMMENT AND EXPECTS TO BE TAKEN SERIOUSLY AFTER EVERYONE HAS LEFT.
> 
> This is how stupid you sound
> 
> ...



Seriously, this is hilarious.

Demanding time limit for answer on the internet. Ok, you can tell me the truth, you were looking for an excuse to run from the debate, weren't you? You can tell me, I'm your buddy.



MdB said:


> TB
> 
> Look at his profile
> 
> Just look at it



Such a healthy boy.


----------



## Judge Fudge (Mar 6, 2011)

The Doctor said:


> Judge Fudge, you're an idiot.
> 
> Seriously,





The Doctor said:


> naruto is the worst thing ever
> 
> it sucks
> 
> ...



I really don't want to here that from the likes of you




The Doctor said:


> Demanding time limit for answer on the internet.



Uh, I wasn't demanding anything, I was just asking what sense does it make to continue an argument long after it stops being relevant. But I'm guessing you, Abigail and MdB are fucking each other over it


The Doctor said:


> Ok, you can tell me the truth, you were looking for an excuse to run from the debate, weren't you? You can tell me, I'm your buddy.


So why do you care so much about a petty debate? It has nothing to do with you, but if you insist.....


> MdB said:
> 
> 
> > I'M RIGHT AND YOUR WRONG
> ...



Add 7+ pages of insults and faggotry and that's it


----------



## The Doctor (Mar 6, 2011)

what's the point of answering me after so long, man? 
it's not relevant anymore. i mean it was like 25 minutes ago


----------



## Judge Fudge (Mar 6, 2011)

The Doctor said:


> what's the point of answering me after so long, man?
> it's not relevant anymore.* i mean it was like 25 minutes ago*


25 minutes =/= 25 hours 

And what's the point of it's been 35 seconds. You're wasting your time kid


----------



## The Doctor (Mar 6, 2011)

25 minutes =/= 35 seconds

And what's the point of it's been 6 minutes. You're wasting your time kid


----------



## Judge Fudge (Mar 6, 2011)

No TD, it has to actually make sense to be funny


----------



## p-lou (Mar 6, 2011)

shut up        .


----------



## Judge Fudge (Mar 6, 2011)

you shut up


----------



## The Doctor (Mar 6, 2011)

i'm only repeating what you said and hilariously as it might be, they make as much sense as your original arguments

the thing is, you're the only that thinks they make any sense


----------



## Judge Fudge (Mar 6, 2011)

The Doctor said:


> i'm only repeating what you said and hilariously as it might be, they make as much sense as your original arguments


Not really, I think you're just being a jackass for no reason parading about with noting to prove. I'm just bored 


The Doctor said:


> the thing is, you're the only that thinks they make any sense


Nothing you post makes sense, that's the problem


----------



## The Doctor (Mar 6, 2011)

man you're so clever

i mean the way you miss the point is

fantastic


----------



## Judge Fudge (Mar 6, 2011)

What is your point though? It's one thing to say something with almost no intent behind it but to pretend there's something to it all is just sad


----------



## Mintaka (Mar 6, 2011)

Amusing that you have consistently responded to "7+ pages of insults and faggotry." as you yourself put it.


----------



## The Doctor (Mar 6, 2011)

i'll make this easy

1. you said that after x amount of time a post becomes irrelevant to answer because the subject is not relevant anymore. you considered it to be irrelevant for no fucking reason

2. i did the exactly same thing, i estipulated a random number out of fucking nowhere

3. you said that 25 minutes =/= 25h, which is irrelevant since it means no weight in a fucking debate on the internet and because time perception is as much subjective as taste, so i mocked you by repeating what you said

4. you had no clue what to do anymore

get it? or not?

i mean, it isn't tough


----------



## Judge Fudge (Mar 6, 2011)

The Doctor said:


> i'll make this easy
> 
> 1. you said that after x amount of time a post becomes irrelevant to answer because the subject is not relevant anymore. you considered it to be irrelevant *for no fucking reason*


Uh, it became irrelevant when he stepped out, what's the point of continuing forward on a topic nobody gives a shit 


The Doctor said:


> i'll make this easy
> 2. i did the exactly same thing, i estipulated a random number out of fucking nowhere


Actually you didn't, you went on like an idiot, I wasn't really taking you seriously compared to the debate


The Doctor said:


> 3. *you said that 25 minutes =/= 25h, which is irrelevant* since it means no weight in a fucking debate on the internet


You're right. It's irrelevant because it had nothing to do with you're intention and I brought it up because the time gap in between is ridiculous. You're comparing a gap like night and day because your failed attempt at proving a point backfired.


The Doctor said:


> and because time perception is as much subjective as taste, so i mocked you by repeating what you said


No I think you just failed at proving a point and now you're rambling on something that has nothing to do with the topic.


The Doctor said:


> 4. you had no clue what to do anymore


Considering you've managed to bring about a topic about nothing because you're so butt devastated that I didn't response to your gay lover's day old post is more of an issue for you than it is for me, I've already admitted that I'm bored so what's the point?


The Doctor said:


> get it? or not?
> 
> i mean, it isn't tough


I'm not even sure you get what you post, I mean proofreading isn't that tough either it makes you sound more educated overall.


Now let me ask you a question, why do you care?


----------



## p-lou (Mar 6, 2011)

why do you care?


----------



## Narcissus (Mar 6, 2011)

Narcissus said:


> Judge Fudge said:
> 
> 
> > And vice versa. In the end there's no true measure of quality in these type of manga, they're just fun time wasters in their country of origin, whether you think one is the worst thing ever or the best thing is purely based on particular taste and expectations. Taking them seriously is silly.
> ...



As I said, I'm not looking for the deepest or perfect works of fiction, but when the flaws of a manga or anime become so bad that they get in the way of the entertainment value, there is something wrong. This happens a lot with Naruto, and pretty much in all of Bleach after the SS arc.

Also, it is silly of you to try and ignore an argument because a person responds several hours later. Believe it or not, people do have lives offline and may want to continue a conversation when they get back.


----------



## Judge Fudge (Mar 6, 2011)

Narcissus said:


> As I said, I'm not looking for the deepest or perfect works of fiction, but when the flaws of a manga or anime become so bad that they get in the way of the entertainment value, there is something wrong. This happens a lot with Naruto, and pretty much in all of Bleach after the SS arc.





Judge Fudge said:


> And vice versa. *In the end there's no true measure of quality in these type of manga, they're just fun time wasters in their country of origin, whether you think one is the worst thing ever or the best thing is purely based on particular taste and expectations*. Taking them seriously is silly.



Every manga has flaws bro, you stressing them like they're supposedly should distract everyone from reading it is purely based on opinion on what YOU believe should make it better. People can like Naruto and Bleach the same way people can like FMA, if you're so caught up in your own views of quality and taste than it was never worth the investment in the first place.



Narcissus said:


> Also, it is silly of you to try and ignore an argument because a person responds several hours later. Believe it or not, people do have lives offline and may want to continue a conversation when they get back.


I actually went to work 5 minutes after the last respond and when I came back in the morning he had not responded the rest of the night going on late unto the afternoon. He conceded and tried to save face by trying to continue it when it was said and done the night before and people stop giving a shit, and given how he didn't continue only proves this. So why should I continue?


----------



## MdB (Mar 6, 2011)

Judge Fudge said:


> HEY GUYS HE'S BUMPING A DAY OLD COMMENT AND EXPECTS TO BE TAKEN SERIOUSLY AFTER EVERYONE HAS LEFT.
> 
> This is how stupid you sound
> 
> ...



I'm starting to think that you have Down's, or does your mental state slip into blatant autism every time you can't win an argument?


----------



## Judge Fudge (Mar 6, 2011)

MdB said:


> Don't blame me when you're a train-obsessed special needs child that can't understand that people have more to do in their life than simply debating on the internet.


And yet you quote me 12 hours later and expect to be taken seriously? What you can't be a man and just ignore it? But I guess I'll humor you since you're in dire need of attention kid


MdB said:


> If that's your highest priority, then you need to get out more.


Delicious irony is delicious


MdB said:


> And the fact remains that you haven't refuted anything I said, while resorting to logical fallacies and cop-outs (quoting my argumentation with ''stuff'' is all the evidence I need).


Why should I? You're still not right and I found it funny that you quoted me a day after it became irrelevant, you're just grasping for straws on an argument you couldn't win so you're stressing one minoir detail like a crying baby. 


MdB said:


> Furthermore, ''your mom wanted you to get off the computer?'' is the worst insult I've heard in months. Like I said, your ass is sore and it needs some treatment.





MdB said:


> I'm starting to think that you have Down's, or does your mental state slip into blatant autism every time you can't win an argument?





MdB said:


> Don't blame me when you're a train-obsessed special needs child that can't understand that people have more to do in their life than simply debating on the internet.



And yet all you can come up is autism jokes?


----------



## MdB (Mar 6, 2011)

Why are you calling others ''kids'' in the first place when you don't know their age? Are you compensating for something? Just how old are you? And I still won this argument.


----------



## MdB (Mar 6, 2011)

HEY GUYS I'M PROJECTING MY AUTISM ONLINE

I'm so mature.


----------



## PPsycho (Mar 6, 2011)

Sorry to bumb in, as I didn't even read this last page because it already became boring, but just had to comment the time thing. It's a FORUM, not a CHAT, so u saying that answering after hours is pointless or pathetic is one of the dumbest things I've read in some time, seriously.


----------



## Judge Fudge (Mar 6, 2011)

MdB said:


> Why are you calling others ''kids''





MdB said:


> And I still won this argument.



You answered your own question "kid". If you act like a child you get treated as one, simple as that


MdB said:


> HEY GUYS I'M PROJECTING MY AUTISM ONLINE
> 
> I'm so mature.


Yes we're quite aware of how retarded you are you don't have to proclaim it out loud



PPsycho said:


> Sorry to bumb in, as I didn't even read this last page because it already became boring, but just had to comment the time thing. It's a FORUM, not a CHAT, so u saying that answering after hours is pointless or pathetic is one of the dumbest things I've read in some time, seriously.


So I'm guessing you're stupid enough to comment on a two year old post when all is said and done?


----------



## MdB (Mar 6, 2011)

It's official, you broke down and can only resort to insults and grasping at straws (remember who started to get upset? I merely responded in the same tone). It's painfully obvious by anyone that you lost this argument. Don't believe me? Just ask.

Right now, you're a complete joke. Rild redux basically.


----------



## Punpun (Mar 6, 2011)

Fruits Punch Samurai said:


> That's a shitty excuse. If the topic has long become useless than why try and bring and up again in the first place? Or better yet why drop out in the first place and come back in the next day?



This makes no sense.. I guess all the confrontation Rousseau and Voltaire had were useless cause it took them months to answer each other through Publications right ?


----------



## Memos (Mar 6, 2011)

Locking this before it becomes even worse.


----------

