# mifune faces off these people



## Icegaze (Apr 7, 2015)

Since mifune is getting alot of hype i thought i should put his abilities to the test from eaiest to most dificult. this isnt a gauntlet but i am wondering how far he would get 

location: open field
knowledge: none
distance: 10m 

Asuma
Darui
hiashi 
Sharingan kakashi 

Can mifune actually beat all 4. where does he stop. 

remember this isnt a gauntlet

btw i put these guys because all of them can fight without any elaborate seals. lets see how Mr god slash fares. 
I must say that hebi sasuke was stated to have god speed. yet fails at blitzing deidara


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## Zuhaitz (Apr 7, 2015)

He defeats Asuma with easy.

50/50 against Darui

Lose against Hiashi and Kakahsi.

Mifune is Kage level himself, he at the age of 65 was still powerful enough to be one of the generals of the shinobi alliance.


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## Icegaze (Apr 7, 2015)

Please explain the asuma battle though. asuma got 2 blades. either can block mifune sword. how on earth will that go down easily 

darui can casually pull of laser circus though. mifune isnt dodging the lot of them. also darui could pull off a jutsu before sasuke got to him. you know the same sasuke which kishi hyped as havign god like speed. 

yh agreed on the latter 2. they win with low diff at the most


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## Zuhaitz (Apr 7, 2015)

Asuma has 2 blades but Mifune is faster and has better kenjutsu, Asuma get decapicated.

Darui can't easily perform any jutsu, Mifune is faster and he won't allow him to do it, but Darui's superior stamina combined with his strenght can give him the edge.

Hiashi simply has the perfect jutsus to counter kenjutsu easily.

Kakashi is simply above Mifune, he may be a little slower, but he is above him in everything else.


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## Icegaze (Apr 7, 2015)

Zuhaitz said:


> Asuma has 2 blades but Mifune is faster and has better kenjutsu, Asuma get decapicated.
> 
> Darui can't easily perform any jutsu, Mifune is faster and he won't allow him to do it, but Darui's superior stamina combined with his strenght can give him the edge.
> 
> ...



yes mifune is faster but can he swing twice as fast as asuma. because he will need to. to out do asuma. if u think about it even a little bit. when 1 of asuma blade clashes with his sword where do u think asuma other blade is?

are you also forgetting asuma ability to extend his blade at will to make his style less predictable?

darui kept up with V1 Ei. how mifune is faster entirely baffles me. what are you basing this on? all it says is his Iai increases his strike speed. but mifune foot speed wasnt mentioned once to be exceptional 

yes hiashi does have the perfect counter to kenjutsu. so do many ninjas. 

yh me including kakashi was spite cant lie. kakashi neg diffs. 

now with all this hype. i would ask you to go back to kisame DB2 page or DB 3. do read what it says about his kenjutsu. and samehada. Also note kisame out did gai in cqc!!! gai!!!

*Kisame out did gai!!! in cqc * yet didnt 1 panel asuma. that shows alot about asuma skill. cuz god knows if i put base gai against mifune mods will lock this thread.

edit: if we are going with hype kishi called asuma 





> A Jounin of Konoha, he possesses the rare Wind basic Nature Alteration, and boasts the foremost skill in close combat



because by feats mifune did not show speed which any jounin cant match.


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## Zuhaitz (Apr 7, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> yes mifune is faster but can he swing twice as fast as asuma. because he will need to. to out do asuma. if u think about it even a little bit. when 1 of asuma blade clashes with his sword where do u think asuma other blade is?



That what the better kenjutsu is for, a single strike of Mifune doesn't simply clash with one of Asuma, It also breaks his defense. And also yes, Mifune can strike at least twice as fast.



Icegaze said:


> are you also forgetting asuma ability to extend his blade at will to make his style less predictable?



So can Mifune, he can even create an air slash.



Icegaze said:


> darui kept up with V1 Ei. how mifune is faster entirely baffles me. what are you basing this on? all it says is his Iai increases his strike speed. but mifune foot speed wasnt mentioned once to be exceptional



Mifune was faster than Hanzou, the guy that reacted to Nagato's speed.



Icegaze said:


> yes hiashi does have the perfect counter to kenjutsu. so do many ninjas.



LOL no.



Icegaze said:


> yh me including kakashi was spite cant lie. kakashi neg diffs.
> 
> now with all this hype. i would ask you to go back to kisame DB2 page or DB 3. do read what it says about his kenjutsu. and samehada. Also note kisame out did gai in cqc!!! gai!!!
> 
> *Kisame out did gai!!! in cqc * yet didnt 1 panel asuma. that shows alot about asuma skill. cuz god knows if i put base gai against mifune mods will lock this thread.




 Kisame fought Gai using his superior strenght and durability, he was outclashed in taijutsu by far.


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## Icegaze (Apr 7, 2015)

Zuhaitz said:


> That what the better kenjutsu is for, a single strike of Mifune doesn't simply clash with one of Asuma, It also breaks his defense. And also yes, Mifune can strike at least twice as fast.



any proof his jutsu can break asuma wind blades which are said to be sharper?  just making shit up based on some random shit. how on earth is he breaking his defense. with what. a blade of chakra. guess what dummy asuma got 2 of thsoe 




> So can Mifune, he can even create an air slash.



yes those things sasuke blocked with his chidori sword. why asuma cant do the same is beyond me




> Mifune was faster than Hanzou, the guy that reacted to Nagato's speed.



 he didnt react to nagato speed at all. also who says nagato is fast. the guy was a cripple from his first showning in the manga. 




> LOL no.







> Kisame fought Gai using his superior strenght and durability, he was outclashed in taijutsu by far.



 so kisame can overwhelm  with superior strength gai but mifune who is less skilled in cqc cant be overwhelmed? 

also note thats how kisame out did asuma. though they were even 1 strike each 

the mifune wank at its best though  with no feats or manga statements somehow mifune blade can cut asuma blade. wow mehn


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## Zuhaitz (Apr 7, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> any proof his jutsu can break asuma wind blades which are said to be sharper?  just making shit up based on some random shit. how on earth is he breaking his defense. with what. a blade of chakra. guess what dummy asuma got 2 of thsoe



Break his defense, not his blades.
Break his defense with superior kenjutsu.

Mifune has better kenjutsu and speed than Asuma, which are the main factors in an cqc with blades. How is possible that you don't get that the one with superior speed and kenjutsu will probably win the fight?



Icegaze said:


> he didnt react to nagato speed at all. also who says nagato is fast. the guy was a cripple from his first showning in the manga.



Nagato reacted to KCM Naruto, which I suppose you consider slow.

Hanzou did not only reacted by he crippled him with a counter.



Icegaze said:


> so kisame can overwhelm  with superior strength gai but mifune who is less skilled in cqc cant be overwhelmed?



Gai doens't use cutting weapons, does he?



Icegaze said:


> also note thats how kisame out did asuma. though they were even 1 strike each
> 
> the mifune wank at its best though  with no feats or manga statements somehow mifune blade can cut asuma blade. wow mehn



You think that Mifune is just Asuma level? 

Mifune>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Asuma


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## Icegaze (Apr 7, 2015)

Zuhaitz said:


> Break his defense, not his blades.
> Break his defense with superior kenjutsu.
> 
> Mifune has better kenjutsu and speed than Asuma, which are the main factors in an cqc with blades. How is possible that you don't get that the one with superior speed and kenjutsu will probably win the fight?



kishi states asuma is the foremost in cqc. clearly he disagrees with you. go read the DB's
what you dont get is one with 2 blades has twice the number of swings possible. also as for superior kenjutsu again kishi disagrees. 



> Nagato reacted to KCM Naruto, which I suppose you consider slow.



panels of this please. where was this reaction. go on ill wait 
being able to react doesnt at all indicate phsyical speed in any way shape or form. nagato got rinnengan and is a sensor. nagato reacted to amaterasu, however he sure as hell cant move out of the way 



> Hanzou did not only reacted by he crippled him with a counter.



yes a trap he set before hand. konan did the same to obito. big whoop 



> Gai doens't use cutting weapons, does he?



gai doesnt need 2. please make that thread  base gai vs mifune
lets see how many agree with me and how few agree with u



> You think that Mifune is just Asuma level?



he hasnt shown any better 



> Mifune>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Asuma



based on fan fic no doubt . base on DB statements and feats hardly the case 

Main text

An additional ninjutsu where one puts chakra into a blade such as a kunai or a sword, thus augmenting its power to harm and kill! The materialized chakra becomes part of the blade, promptly cleaving and slicing what it touches! In addition, it's also possible to alter the weapon's attack range by regulating the amount of chakra put into it. *Ascertaining its position and tracks is a nigh-unfeasible deed.*

Caption

*-Keeping track of the luminous blades as they extend and retract is painfully hard!!
*
if anyone is breakign defense it would be asuma. with the less easy to predict blade. asuma doesnt need to be as skilled he has the better weapon. same way neji doesnt need to be as fast as base lee he has the better style. 

please show me mifune statements or feats that somehow put him above asuma which kishi claims in DB to be the foremost in cqc. go on ill wait 

think a little would you


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## Zuhaitz (Apr 7, 2015)

Make the Asuma vs Mifune thread, I'll wait.


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## Icegaze (Apr 7, 2015)

this is a asuma vs mifune thread. learn to read
the first match is asuma


you can wait all you want. but i see u concede 

foremost in cqc kinda shits on your argument though. doesnt it. dodging multiple swings from kisame who out did gai in cqc largerly puts asuma above mifune. unless u think mifune and gai can even go toe to toe. 

i hope u dont think so might laugh too hard and rupture something


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## Zuhaitz (Apr 7, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> this is a asuma vs mifune thread. learn to read
> the first match is asuma
> 
> 
> ...





This is a guanlet, you don't know maths and now you show that you don't even know to read...



Show where did Kishi say that Asuma is the foremost in cqc


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## Icegaze (Apr 7, 2015)

its not a gauntlet you moron. i basically said so in the OP and even if it was. the first match is asuma you daft child 
so how on earth does that differ from a 1 on 1 match?

sure imma show u. swallow it and choke on it painfully 



> Databook 3 - Sarutobi Asuma:
> Main text
> 
> Page 1
> ...


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## Deer Lord (Apr 7, 2015)

Mifune should be able to beat all of them.
This is the guy that hanzo the salamander deemed as too dangerous to use handseals against mind you.


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## Zuhaitz (Apr 7, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> its not a gauntlet you moron. i basically said so in the OP and even if it was. the first match is asuma you daft child
> so how on earth does that differ from a 1 on 1 match?
> 
> sure imma show u. swallow it and choke on it painfully



I'll make it simpler for a simple person like you:

Make a thread where Mifune fights Asuma exclusively.

Also learn to read, the databook says that wind chakra is the foremost in cqc, not Asuma


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## Icegaze (Apr 7, 2015)

and who is using the wind you prick. how many do u know who use wind in cqc?

@deer lord please explain how he gets passed hiashi

@troll guy who keeps replying. you make the thread you desparate to argue. i dont need to make a new thread for something already being discussed


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## Deer Lord (Apr 7, 2015)

Hiashi is probably the most difficult of the bunch, but he lacks speed in cqc to contend with mifune.
There's a reason mifune was put as the head of the mele division. This is a guy who has sparred with kage level fighters on more than one occasion.


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## Zuhaitz (Apr 7, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> and who is using the wind you prick. how many do u know who use wind in cqc?
> 
> @deer lord please explain how he gets passed hiashi
> 
> @troll guy who keeps replying. you make the thread you desparate to argue. i dont need to make a new thread for something already being discussed



LOL Mifune has wind chakra aswell


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## Icegaze (Apr 7, 2015)

omg you just decided to make shit up!!! yh imma neg you then put you on my ignore list
mifune was never once remotely implied to have wind chakra. not even once. 

@deer lord hiashi doesnt need to have the same speed. he got air palm with juubi tail lifting AoE classified as super fast in the Db and kaiten which ragdolls mifune. hiashi neg diffs

btw  if u think he can remotely attempt to outdo kakashi in cqc. where in raikiri19 speeches when you need them.


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## UchihaX28 (Apr 7, 2015)

Mifune may be able to overpower Asuma in Kenjutsu, but I doubt Mifune's agile or reflexive enough to avoid Asuma's Chakra Blades that releases undetectable chakra or that he's fast enough where he can outpace Asuma.

 He might win, but I'd give it to either side high-difficulty.

 And no, Mifune doesn't have Futon. I don't know where somebody got that from, but that is nowhere even implied.


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## Icegaze (Apr 8, 2015)

@NarutoX28 thank you 
i mean asuma doesnt even need mifune speed. his cqc skills are good enough. people assosicate speed always with cqc skills i have no idea why
juudara could not get from point A to b quicker than 7th gate gai however juudara cqc skills were better so he won that encounter 

here asuma got chakra blades which the author not only states is painfully hard to dodge but that the chakra blades are basically undetectable. mifune can be faster all he wants he looses that encounter

against mifune meets the same end. hiashi is possibly the worst thing that could happen to mifune. mifune comes at him. kaiten!!! mifune looses


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## Zuhaitz (Apr 8, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> omg you just decided to make shit up!!! yh imma neg you then put you on my ignore list
> mifune was never once remotely implied to have wind chakra. not even once.
> 
> @deer lord hiashi doesnt need to have the same speed. he got air palm with juubi tail lifting AoE classified as super fast in the Db and kaiten which ragdolls mifune. hiashi neg diffs
> ...



The 2 chakra types that sharpens the swords are raiton and fuuton. Did his chakra look like raiton to you?

Mifune's speed is on par, and we are talking about the 65 years old Mifune, with the likes of Kakashi, or even base Gai. His Kenjutsu is only second to the likes of Bee and Sasuke...

He was appointed as the leader of the special battle division. He solo's Hanzo, the guy that defeated the Sannin, crippled Nagato and solo'd the ambush team.

And you still think that acid mist doesn't affect the internal organs and that there were less than 110 characters in the manga...

He cuts Asuma in 2 before he can react.


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## Icegaze (Apr 8, 2015)

Zuhaitz said:


> The 2 chakra types that sharpens the swords are raiton and fuuton. Did his chakra look like raiton to you?
> 
> Mifune's speed is on par, and we are talking about the 65 years old Mifune, with the likes of Kakashi, or even base Gai. His Kenjutsu is only second to the likes of Bee and Sasuke...
> 
> ...



 so you are giving him fuuton based on looks  like i said #newbieathisbest

mifune speed can be as fast as you like it to be. sadly kishi from manga feats and DB statements disagree wank all you want. you still cant refute my point which is how does mifune dodge a chakra blade he cant see or even block it 

sasuke kenjutsu skills arent rated implied or ranked higher than asuma's so try alot harder

acid mist doesnt cause internal damage because kihsi never implied or showed it. try alot harder 

yup wank all you want 

btw look at the poles its 3 votes to zero against mifune.


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## Zuhaitz (Apr 8, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> so you are giving him fuuton based on looks  like i said #newbieathisbest
> 
> mifune speed can be as fast as you like it to be. sadly kishi from manga feats and DB statements disagree wank all you want. you still cant refute my point which is how does mifune dodge a chakra blade he cant see or even block it
> 
> ...





He can have raiton or fuuton, that's fact. He does not have raiton because the visual of raiton are easily seen. Ergo he has fuuton.

Tell me in which have you lost my poor boy and I'll explain you even easier just for you.

Kishi's DB expecificaly states that Mifune's speed has godlike speed, unlike Asuma's profile, which doesn't say anything about his average speed.

Sasuke's kenjutsu has been hyped many times and the fact that he could fight h2h with Itachi thanks to it It's more than enough proof.

And kee thinking that acid mist doesn't affect the insides 

Your poll has 3 votes!  you are like a rock star or something?


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## Icegaze (Apr 8, 2015)

Zuhaitz said:


> He can have raiton or fuuton, that's fact. He does not have raiton because the visual of raiton are easily seen. Ergo he has fuuton.
> 
> Tell me in which have you lost my poor boy and I'll explain you even easier just for you.
> 
> ...



then feel free to mention the scan or DB statement which indicates mifune has futton. go on ill wait. so your sayign an entire country has wind element? since u know all samurai can channel chakra in their sword. i take it choujiro has wind element as well? 
#newbiebeingafucktard

and kishi specfically states asuma wind blades are impossible to see  and are painfully hard to dodge

show me 1 scan of sasuke kenjutus being hyped. just 1 please. he also didnt fight with itachi itachi bullied him. while sick

lol again show internal damage cuz'd by acid mist. inhaling fire as well will burn ur insides. asuma took his own fire attack. no internal damage. maybe u think hidan held his breath . naruto took madara fire attack no internal damage. sasuke got burnt by acid mist no internal damage. so this fictional internal damage please. kishi the bloody author has never once mentioned said attack was capable of internal damage

yes i am certainly more a rockstar in my worst day than a troll who thinks an entire country have futton chakra because its looks like it.


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## Zuhaitz (Apr 8, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> then feel free to mention the scan or DB statement which indicates mifune has futton. go on ill wait. so your sayign an entire country has wind element? since u know all samurai can channel chakra in their sword. i take it choujiro has wind element as well?
> #newbiebeingafucktard
> 
> and kishi specfically states asuma wind blades are impossible to see  and are painfully hard to dodge
> ...



Choujuro uses and special weapon my poor boy.

As for the rest of the samurais, yes, they do have or raiton or fuuton.

Kishi has never said that wind blades are impossible to see my poor boy.

Sasue's kenjutsu being praised, my little boy:


Asuma did have internal damage my poor little boy, but the internal damage of the final of the ritual was simply greater.
And acid mist does create internal damage, the fact that Mei hasn't fought anyone by herself to show us her arsenal doesn't mean that she doens't have one.


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## Icegaze (Apr 8, 2015)

Sorry so mifune saynig not bad is praising sasuke skill. thats the best you could find oh really? 
read DB 3 on asuma abilities. since u got time to troll u got time to inform yourself

The samurai do not have wind chakra considering kishi said its extremely rare to have. something asuma mentioned when naruto came to him for training 

why on earth will kishi then give an entire country wind element?   

again no shown internal damage= no internal damage. Db doesnt even imply Mei mist can cause internal damage.

i cannot believe the mifune hype due to this empty text 



> Mifune Profile
> 
> So basically it just talks about how Mifune trained himself heavily and eventually his own body became like a Meitou (a legendary sword). Than it talks about how he is a great ruler of the Samurai and how he defeated Hanzo by piercing him with his faith via his meitou sword Kurosawa. Than talks about peace and all that garbage.
> 
> ...



what it says about asuma is far more impressive. iai increases his speed. thats it!!! the godsend bit has to do with the fact that the mistake of a ninja would be to try form seals when fighitng him. thats about it!! wow!! cant believe the hype. his page doesnt even warrant a full translation by turrin who has translated less impressive characters! seriously man 

compared to this 



> Main text
> 
> An additional ninjutsu where one puts chakra into a blade such as a kunai or a sword, thus augmenting its power to harm and kill! The materialized chakra becomes part of the blade, promptly cleaving and slicing what it touches! In addition, it's also possible to alter the weapon's attack range by regulating the amount of chakra put into it. Ascertaining its position and tracks is a nigh-unfeasible deed.
> 
> ...





> Asuma's chakra swords are quite like synonyms of the man himself. His glowing blades scintillate during close combat.
> 
> -Even though he boasts great skill, he is not in the least bit overconfident. As a squad leader, he communicates the very best of plans in all dignity


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## Zuhaitz (Apr 8, 2015)

So you wanted someone praising Sasuke's kenjutsu and I find one in less than a minute, yet It seems that It wasn't worth of it 

Also Asuma has had 4 profiles of the databook, Mifune only has one.

But in the only profile Mifune has, the one where Hashirama's powers are described, It was stated that his speed was outstanding.


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## Icegaze (Apr 8, 2015)

Sorry why did u mention hashirama. yes hashirama was described in DB one as well and DB 2. i dont get your point
in those databooks asuma blade was said to be impossible to dodge. see how that works ? 

sandaime raikage has had 1 DB entry. no one would debate who trolls the other. sandaime neg diffs. 1 entry is hardly an excuse but if thats all u can come up with ur concession is clear. 

not bad is hardly praising. eg: your post is not bad. 

now this is me praising you, your ability to concede without knowing is exceptional. 

see the difference?


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## Zuhaitz (Apr 8, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> Sorry why did u mention hashirama. yes hashirama was described in DB one as well and DB 2. i dont get your point
> in those databooks asuma blade was said to be impossible to dodge. see how that works ?





You don't even know how to lie. Asuma's knife wasn't stated to be unavoidable. 

All you have shown is that fuuton is the best type of chakra at h2h combat. And you can't even see the difference between having the best chakra type for h2h and being good at h2h.

Let's see what we got from Mifune and Asuma:

-Mifune 
Leader of the samurais
Leader of the 5th division of the alliance
One of the best kenjutsu users
Really fast character
Immune to most poisons
Stated to be able to make any shinobi unable to use ninjutsus
Defeated Hanzou

-Asuma
Leader of Shika-Ino-Cho's team
Has fire and wind chakra
One of the protector of the Daimyos
Fought Kisame and needed Kakashi's assistance 
Hidan defeated him

For anyone that has understood the manga any general of the alliance >>>>>>>> Asuma.


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## Icegaze (Apr 8, 2015)

*Ascertaining its position and tracks is a nigh-unfeasible deed.

Caption

-Keeping track of the luminous blades as they extend and retract is painfully hard!!

Picture comment

-High enough in density to become visible, the chakra strengthens the weapons and becomes a blade in its own right!!

-Asuma infuses his brass knuckles - his weapons of choice - with this jutsu and goes into battle.*


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## Zuhaitz (Apr 8, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> *Ascertaining its position and tracks is a nigh-unfeasible deed.
> 
> Caption
> 
> ...



Now really hard = impossible



Just concede.


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## Icegaze (Apr 8, 2015)

Ascertaining its position and tracks is a nigh-unfeasible deed.


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## Zuhaitz (Apr 8, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> Ascertaining its position and tracks is a nigh-unfeasible deed.



night infeasible =/= impossible

Really hard =/= impossible

If not Asuma wouldn't be dead


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## Icegaze (Apr 8, 2015)

futile is a synonym of the word. if someone tells u somethign is futile what do u think it means. 

nigh-infeasible. nearly impossible. which is alot more than what hanzo or mifune have going for them as far as kishi statements are concerned


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## Zuhaitz (Apr 8, 2015)

So Asuma's attacks can't be dodged, so he is the most powerful being in the manga 

Get real for once, that's an hyperbole.

Mifune is faster and has better kenjutsu, which is what matters in a cqc with swords. He kills Asuma.


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## Icegaze (Apr 8, 2015)

mifune hyperbole Db statement is still less impressive that was my point
All asuma hyperbole implies is in cqc he will out do you 

kisame didnt last 3 panels against him before kisame resorted to water shark bomb. 

mifune is faster however isnt outdoign someone like asuma in cqc who is far more regarded by kishi the author not some irrevelant prick arguing about things he dont know like you


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## Zuhaitz (Apr 8, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> mifune hyperbole Db statement is still less impressive that was my point
> All asuma hyperbole implies is in cqc he will out do you
> 
> kisame didnt last 3 panels against him before kisame resorted to water shark bomb.
> ...



So your point is that as the hyperboles about Asuma are more poetic he must be more powerful. I love how your brain does (not) work.

Kisame didn't need to use the suiton, he choose to use it because Asuma pissed him.

Mifune is not only faster, he is also more skilled at cqc. 

More skilled and faster, what else does he need to cut Asuma's guts? The answer is nothing btw.


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## Icegaze (Apr 8, 2015)

polls say otherwise
those who have all been bothered to vote asuma wins. 
-snip-


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## UchihaX28 (Apr 8, 2015)

I doubt Sasuke's retarded enough to block a Futon with a Raiton.


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## Zuhaitz (Apr 8, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> polls say otherwise
> those who have all been bothered to vote asuma wins.
> so suck on that and of course do choke on it painfully



You all those 3 people :amazed

If those 3 people say so I guess nothing can be said against it 



NarutoX28 said:


> I doubt Sasuke's retarded enough to block a Futon with a Raiton.



No, he isn't stupid enough to use a  regular blade against a chakra infused blade 

And despite fuuton having advantage against raiton It has been also stated that high degree raiton can be equal to lower degree fuuton.


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## Turrin (Apr 8, 2015)

Asuma - This is an easy win for Mifune. His IAI techs are more than fast enough to halt Asuma's attempts at hand-seals, and overall he is much more proficient at CQC than Asuma. Even if Asuma gets the chance to use Fuuton-Flow, Mifune can flow chakra through his weapon allowing him to fight unimpeded. It's only a matter of time before Asume gets blit'z by Mifune's IAI slash.

Darui - Darui would also likely fall to Mifune, given the distance. His Jutsu require hand-seals, which Mifune would not allow him to use. Darui is skill in CQC, but against thee master Samurai, he looses. Raiton flow is again countered by Mifune's own chakra flow. And like Asuma it's only a matter of time before Mifune nails him with an IAI slash.

Kakashi and Hashi, depend on how fast Mifune's top speed IAI slash really is, which we don't have any real clear means of measuring, but both are accomplished hand to hand fighters with Dojutsu and decent speed scores in the DB, so they have decent odds of not being blitz'd [Kakashi more than Haishi tho], and have a powerful techniques that don't require hand-seals, so I give them the benefit of the doubt to win more often than not.
----------

As for Mifune's level, he's not over-hyped at all, rather Mifune is underrated. He is one of the few characters in the entire series that is world-famous for his speed, which puts him in the same vein as Ei, Shisui, Minato, and Tobirama. Now obviously's not quite as good as them, because he was never the fastest of his time, to our knowledge, but he still holds some of the greatest speed hype in the verse as well as general hype considering he was select as one of the generals whose contemporaries include Kakashi, Gaara, Kitsuchi, and Darui, all of which are highly skilled Shinobi [Albeit some more than others]. Mifune should be full capable of taking down most characters in the verse and stepping to some Kage-Class individuals [though not the tougher ones]. He may loose to Haishi and 3-Tome-Kakashi, but those two are also underestimated given their feats in the War-Arc, especially Haishi.


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## Icegaze (Apr 8, 2015)

@Turrin mifune slash speed is what is hyped not his foot speed you translated the DB did you not
as to how he stops asuma from following chakra in swords asuma is already holding i have no idea how u can actually say that and not laugh at your joke 

Regardless even from DB statements noting indicates that mifune skill is so much greater than asuma's that despite asuma nigh-infeasible possibility of doing his blades mifune would win

when kisame who out did gai in cqc backed off when he faced asuma in the same area. 

you could be right about darui so wont push it. 

however hiashi is an absolute counter to mifune. hiashi doesnt even need to have fully spun to block mifune blade. also kaiten sending juubi tail flying>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.mifune slash 

the  only way mifune stands the slightest chance of winning is if hiashi stood there and decided to be killed. 

there is no way you want to wank mifune to the point to say he can cut down hiashi before hiashi releases chakra from his body to block then send him flying with kaiten


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## Zuhaitz (Apr 8, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> @Turrin mifune slash speed is what is hyped not his foot speed you translated the DB did you not
> as to how he stops asuma from following chakra in swords asuma is already holding i have no idea how u can actually say that and not laugh at your joke
> 
> Regardless even from DB statements noting indicates that mifune skill is so much greater than asuma's that despite asuma nigh-infeasible possibility of doing his blades mifune would win
> ...



No, his iai jutsu is the thing hyped by the DB, the iai jutsu is not just the slash, It also includes the movement speed of Mifune.

No, the DB didn't mention his skill in kenjutsu, the manga on other hand showed it. He is the top kenjutsu user of the samurai country, and he surpassed Hanzou, whose last DB entry you should check.


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## UchihaX28 (Apr 8, 2015)

Darui has speed that can actually outpace Kingaku and Gingaku somewhat and also has Black Lightning + Suiton combination that can easily paralyze Mifune. Considering Darui managed to catch Sasuke off-guard with a Suton + Raiton combination and the fact that Mifune's battle style relies on CQC and he's overall slower than Taka Sasuke, there is no way Mifune can win this unless they are 1m apart (maybe). Even then, considering Darui can dodge V2 Kingaku (or Gingaku?), then there's really no way Mifune can defeat Darui.

 It's not like Darui's fighting style is completely based around CQC while Mifune's is.

 @Zuhaitz

 While higher degree of Raiton can have a higher penetrative force than a lower degree Futon, that doesn't take into account the advantage Futon has over Raiton in this case, so it's likely Sasuke wouldn't put in effort into parrying a Futon with a Raiton as he was attempting to conserve chakra for Danzo (mainly) and possibly the other Kages if need be.

 Besides artstyle, what other evidence do you have that suggests Mifune can use Futon? I can't find anything that suggests Mifune can use a nature element. All Samurai in general are stated to be able to control chakra through their sword. Mifune is no different. It's just that he has greater proficiency in Kenjutsu and should thus be able to control more chakra properly while wielding a sword.


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## Zuhaitz (Apr 8, 2015)

NarutoX28 said:


> Darui has speed that can actually outpace Kingaku and Gingaku somewhat and also has Black Lightning + Suiton combination that can easily paralyze Mifune. Considering Darui managed to catch Sasuke off-guard with a Suton + Raiton combination and the fact that Mifune's battle style relies on CQC and he's overall slower than Taka Sasuke, there is no way Mifune can win this unless they are 1m apart (maybe). Even then, considering Darui can dodge V2 Kingaku (or Gingaku?), then there's really no way Mifune can defeat Darui.
> 
> It's not like Darui's fighting style is completely based around CQC while Mifune's is.
> 
> ...



Mifune is faster than Taka Sasuke. And Sasuke was caught of guard because he was going for the Raikage and ignoring the rest of the shinobis around him.

Sasuke wasn't trying to conserve chakra at all, he was spaming Susanoo all over the place.

And we know that he has either fuuton or raiton because he has used it to infuse his sword. The 2 chakra natures that help to sharpen the blade are fuuton and raiton. And Kishi usually draws them differently, Mifune's looks more like fuuton, like the one of most of the samurais.


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## UchihaX28 (Apr 8, 2015)

Zuhaitz said:


> Mifune is faster than Taka Sasuke. And Sasuke was caught of guard because he was going for the Raikage and ignoring the rest of the shinobis around him.



 What evidence do you have to suggest Mifune is faster than Taka Sasuke?



> Sasuke wasn't trying to conserve chakra at all, he was spaming Susanoo all over the place.



 He wanted to test his abilities, I won't deny that, however, it's clear he wanted to conserve chakra as he deliberately destroyed the pillars of the Summit to reach Danzo. Afterwards, there was no point in over-expending his chakra as his main goal was Danzo all along. That's why he attempted to escape before Mei trapped him.



> And we know that he has either fuuton or raiton because he has used it to infuse his sword. The 2 chakra natures that help to sharpen the blade are fuuton and raiton. And Kishi usually draws them differently, Mifune's looks more like fuuton, like the one of most of the samurais.



 - No he hasn't.

 - [1]

 Seems to be ordinary chakra to me or Karin would've mentioned something even more spectacular about that feat. The Samurai were only using normal chakra. Nowhere is it stated to be Futon.

 - No, Samurai controls chakra and therefore, Mifune only controls chakra. He is a Samurai overall and his proficiency in Kenjutsu stems from superior reflexes and the ability to control more chakra while engaged in Kenjutsu.

 - Mifune's remark towards Sasuke's feat implies it wasn't Futon. "Not bad," doesn't signify someone who parried an attack with an "inferior nature" that also has a less penetrative force. Even Kisame, a CQC expert, had a more astonished reaction towards Bee's Raiton, so Mifune should definitely exhibit a more surprised reaction had Sasuke's Raiton actually overpowered a Futon.

 But until you provide a statement that proves Mifune can use Futon, my point still stands.


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## Icegaze (Apr 8, 2015)

@NarutoX28 dont bother when someone can claim oh its draw like futton therefore its futton you know you arguing with a wall 

kishi says wind element is rare then gives it to an entire country of samurai  

I have read hanzo entry. big whoop nothing impressive at all about his cqc skills 

you know who has DB entry impressive cqc skills and shown in the manga. Asuma, the guy who made kisame back off and use water shark bomb. 

when kisame was engaging the likes of gai in cqc. 

mifune foot speed got no hype beyond what hebi sasuke has. I mean hebi sasuke speed is referred to as god speed yet he cant even bltiz the likes of deidara. 

Mifune isnt blitzing anyone here. 

All hanzo said was his Iai, i.e the slash itself was fast, when hanzo saw not one stain on his blade. nothign about how mifune was so fast he couldnt counter.


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## Zuhaitz (Apr 8, 2015)

NarutoX28 said:


> What evidence do you have to suggest Mifune is faster than Taka Sasuke?



His hype.



NarutoX28 said:


> He wanted to test his abilities, I won't deny that, however, it's clear he wanted to conserve chakra as he deliberately destroyed the pillars of the Summit to reach Danzo. Afterwards, there was no point in over-expending his chakra as his main goal was Danzo all along. That's why he attempted to escape before Mei trapped him.



He broke the pillars to escape from the Raikage. And after that he keep using his sharingan, raitons, Susanoo, etc.



NarutoX28 said:


> - No he hasn't.
> 
> - [1]
> 
> ...



-Yes, he has.

-Regular chakra doesn't affect the cutting capacity of the swords. Only fuuton and raiton chakra sharpens the sword.

-Samurais do control chakra, they don't use ninjutsu, but they use chakra to move faster (shunshin), they use it to sharpen their swords, with fuuton or raiton, they use it to counter genjutsus, etc.

-Mifune doesn't seem the kind of guy to praise his enemies at all, so him saying that "not bad", was the equivalent to Naruto freaking out with someone being able to resist a rasengan.

-Mifune has either raiton or fuuton, and whatever It is It doesn't matter because in a country with thousands of samurais able to use fuuton and raiton in their swords, he is still the most powerful one, which means that even if he had raiton chakra, It would be above the regular fuuton chakra.


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## Icegaze (Apr 8, 2015)

statements from kishi callign it either raiton or fuuton the first time its shown they simply say sasuke is able to use chakra flow. to add an element to it they would need elemental affinities which they do not. seriously!! choujiro sword releases chakra. no wind nature there newbie. so stop makign things up

the sword only stores chakra before u try to claim the sword is somehow special beyond that


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## UchihaX28 (Apr 8, 2015)

Zuhaitz said:


> His hype.





 I was expecting actual feats.

 His hype isn't in regards to speed, it's in regards to his Kenjutsu and reflexes in CQC which has very little to do with movement speed. Mifune still hasn't shown anything impressive in terms of speed while Sasuke has.



> He broke the pillars to escape from the Raikage. And after that he keep using his sharingan, raitons, Susanoo, etc.



 He kept using his Susano'o as he had no choice.

 He broke the pillars to reach Danzo.

 [1]

 If he really wanted to escape from the Raikage, he should have just left the Summit.




> -Yes, he has.


 
 No he hasn't. 



> -Regular chakra doesn't affect the cutting capacity of the swords. Only fuuton and raiton chakra sharpens the sword.



 Chakra control however, allows one to manipulate chakra which means they can solidify to enhance the piercing power of their sword. Surrounding the blade with chakra alone should be enough to enhance the resistance of a blade and make it more effective in combat. This is basic shape manipulation brah.



 A good in-depth analysis on Shape Manipulation if you are still in doubt.



> -Samurais do control chakra, they don't use ninjutsu, but they use chakra to move faster (shunshin), they use it to sharpen their swords, with fuuton or raiton, they use it to counter genjutsus, etc.



 No, they use chakra to sharpen their blades. Futon and Raiton aren't the only nature that enhances one's piercing capabilities. After all, Tobirama managed to pierce through God Tree branches using Suiton, so we might as well claim that Suiton can also increase the penetrative force of a blade provided one can control their chakra properly.



> -Mifune doesn't seem the kind of guy to praise his enemies at all, so him saying that "not bad", was the equivalent to Naruto freaking out with someone being able to resist a rasengan.



 Considering the Samurai commented on how Sasuke easily deflected their chakra blades, I see no reason why Mifune wouldn't comment on Sasuke's ability to overpower Mifune's Futon with Raiton that normally have a lower penetrative force than Futon does. That alone would imply massive superiority that Sasuke would have over Mifune which would logically warrant a huge response from Mifune because he is renowned as one of the strongest users of Kenjutsu.



> -Mifune has either raiton or fuuton, and whatever It is It doesn't matter because in a country with thousands of samurais able to use fuuton and raiton in their swords, he is still the most powerful one, which means that even if he had raiton chakra, It would be above the regular fuuton chakra.



 That's all it is. You're assuming that the Samurai also uses Raiton and Futon, but you have no proof. Not even a single implication that leads to that belief, so therefore, I don't think there's any reason to believe the Samurai can use Raiton or Futon.

 There's also one point I want to bring up and that has to do with Sasuke's Reaction to Killer Bee's ability to channel Raiton. Considering Sasuke was astonished, it seems clear that applying nature manipulation in Kenjutsu is a rather extraordinarily rare feat. The fact that Sasuke remained calm against Mifune and the Samurai seems to suggest that Mifune and the Samurai can't channel Futon or Raiton into their blades.


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## Bonly (Apr 8, 2015)

Mifune could prolly take out Asuma more times then not and has a good shot against Darui as well, Hiashi would depend on how fast his reactions are and Kakashi should win more times then not.


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## Turrin (Apr 8, 2015)

NarutoX28 said:


> Darui has speed that can actually outpace Kingaku and Gingaku


That's not true. Kinkaku reacted and blocked Darui's attack here [1]. The only times Darui "outpaced" Kinaku or Ginkaku, was when he caught them off guard. First time was when they didn't believe Darui would fight back due to them holding Samui hostage. The second time was when they thought he was going to be sucked into crimson gourd, but just got lucky that his favorite word changed in that moment, not being sucked in.



> somewhat and also has Black Lightning + Suiton combination that can easily paralyze Mifune.


Sasuke wasn't using his top speed; no shunshin, not even his foot speed, he just leapt at Ei

Mifune on the other hand would be using his IAI technique to specifically stop Darui from forming those seals. 

So unless your telling me Sasuke's jumping speed is greater than Mifune's world famous IAI speed, the comparison your making doesn't apply.



> Even then, considering Darui can dodge V2 Kingaku (or Gingaku?), then there's really no way Mifune can defeat Darui.


That just plain never happened.



> It's not like Darui's fighting style is completely based around CQC while Mifune's is.


That doesn't matter. The battle starts at 10m, the fight will start with CQC, and Mifune is better than Darui in that regard.


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## UchihaX28 (Apr 8, 2015)

Turrin said:


> That's not true. Kinkaku reacted and blocked Darui's attack here [1]. The only times Darui "outpaced" Kinaku or Ginkaku, was when he caught them off guard. First time was when they didn't believe Darui would fight back due to them holding Samui hostage. The second time was when they thought he was going to be sucked into crimson gourd, but just got lucky that his favorite word changed in that moment, not being sucked in.



 I never said Darui could effectively fight Kingaku and Gingaku in CQC, all I said was he had the speed required to evade Kingaku and Gingaku which is true because he managed to keep his distance against them. There's also he fact that V2 Kingaku could never land a complete blow on Darui means Mifune's not doing the same.

 The first instance is fair game. If Gingaku was able to react, he would have. His attention was directed towards Darui, so Darui obviously blitzed Gingaku in that instance. It's fair game. Using that feat, I can infer that Darui can just Shunshin out of Mifune's range.




> Sasuke wasn't using his top speed; no shunshin, not even his foot speed, he just leapt at Ei



 I never said he was.

 Leaping at Ei required a force to be exerted on the ground that propels him forward, so there's still a horizontal velocity, likely still equal to his normal foot speed. I don't see anything that suggests leaping at someone would make them any slower. After all, Hebi Sasuke shunshin'd towards BoS Naruto and the gang and yet was implied to be his highest speed despite leaping off a cliff. I doubt Kishimoto takes free fall that much into consideration when there's a horizontal velocity present.

 But either way, Mifune can't even lol-blitz Darui, so Darui will still react perfectly with a Black Lightning + Suiton combination that will effectively immobilize Mifune.



> Mifune on the other hand would be using his IAI technique to specifically stop Darui from forming those seals.



 If need be, Darui can keep his distance like he did against Gingaku and Kingaku and counter with Suiton + Raiton combination. I simply don't see how Mifune can do anything when Darui's at mid-range.



> So unless your telling me Sasuke's jumping speed is greater than Mifune's world famous IAI speed, the comparison your making doesn't apply.



 It does when Mifune has to close the distance between him and Darui which means he can't use IAI unless at close-range.




> That just plain never happened.



[1]

 He did. 




> That doesn't matter. The battle starts at 10m, the fight will start with CQC, and Mifune is better than Darui in that regard.



 Darui will have knowledge on Mifune at least being renowned as one of the strongest Samurai in existence, so Darui's going to play defensively as he did against Kin and Gin to outplay him. Mifune has to rely on Kenjutsu which is his downfall. Darui does not. I do admit, if Darui does engage in CQC against Mifune, he will be outplayed.


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## Turrin (Apr 8, 2015)

NarutoX28 said:


> I never said Darui could effectively fight Kingaku and Gingaku in CQC, all I said was he had the speed required to evade Kingaku and Gingaku which is true because he managed to keep his distance against them.


You said and I quote, that he "outpace" them. Simply being able to evade some of their attacks is not "outpacing" them. It just means he wasn't getting blitz'd by Base-Gin/Kin.



> here's also he fact that V2 Kingaku could never land a complete blow on Darui means Mifune's not doing the same


He was about to blitz him, until Kitsuchi save him:
[1]
[1]



> The first instance is fair game. If Gingaku was able to react, he would have.


It's not fair game, he was not expecting an attacked until the last second; he also wasn't in a good position to block with Samui, while at the same time holding Samui.



> Using that feat, I can infer that Darui can just Shunshin out of Mifune's range.


How can you infer that? When was Ginkaku indicated to be as fast as someone world famous for their speed or as skilled in Kenjutsu as the greatest off all Samurai? 



> Leaping at Ei required a force to be exerted on the ground that propels him forward, so there's still a horizontal velocity, likely still equal to his normal foot speed.


Foot speed is how quickly someone can move their legs. Jumping speed is how much force can be exerted in one leap. Jumping speed therefore depends on physical strength. Sasuke's physical strength is not that impressive; he's only a 3.5 in the DB, which is two tiers less than his foot speed [4.5]; not to mention while air born he could not use Sharingan precog to anticipate an attack as he can't maneuver mid air.



> After all, Hebi Sasuke shunshin'd towards BoS Naruto and the gang and yet was implied to be his highest speed despite leaping off a cliff.


Nowhere was the suggested to be his top-speed, and he used Shunshin, which he did not use in the instance your citing. 



> But either way, Mifune can't even lol-blitz Darui, so Darui will still react perfectly with a Black Lightning + Suiton combination that will effectively immobilize Mifune.


It's not a matter of blitzing, it's a matter of interrupting Darui's attempt to form seals, forcing Darui to block his strike.



> If need be, Darui can keep his distance like he did against Gingaku and Kingaku and counter with Suiton + Raiton combination. I simply don't see how Mifune can do anything when Darui's at mid-range.


That would be great if the match didn't start at 10m.



> It does when Mifune has to close the distance between him and Darui which means he can't use IAI unless at close-range.


Mifune is quite adept at closing distance. He closed the distance between himself and Hanzo, before Hanzo could clasp his hands together, despite his hands being only a few inches apart:
[1]
Link removed

Regardless of how fast you think Hanzo's seal speed is, Mifune needed to close that distance insanely fast to preempt that seal, considering how fast even a normal human like I and you can clasp our hands together, from that close. Don't believe me, well try it out for yourself. Place your hands a few inches away and try to clasp them together as quickly as you can. It's like one mili-second. And you and I are not super-humans like Hanzo.



> He did


I thought you mean V2-Kinkaku's using his movement speed, not a chakra tail attack from a huge distance away. There's really little suggesting that chakra tail is faster than Mifune's world famous IAI techniques. Fuck Chouza reacted to another tail and there is very little suggesting that fatty is some speed demon.



> Darui will have knowledge on Mifune at least being renowned as one of the strongest Samurai in existence, so Darui's going to play defensively as he did against Kin and Gin to outplay him. Mifune has to rely on Kenjutsu which is his downfall. Darui does not. I do admit, if Darui does engage in CQC against Mifune, he will be outplayed.


Which again would work if the distance was larger, but 10m is very close. Darui will be forced into CQC and as you admit, he looses out in that exchanged.

I'd agree with you that Darui has better odds to win if the distance was larger and he used Ranton/Kurokaminari to keep Mifune at a distance until he could overwhelm him. And I don't really think Mifune is on another "level" from Darui, I think the two are close in strength, which is why circumstance matters. If the match starts close Mifune likely wins, while if the match starts at long Darui likely wins; Mid could go ether way.


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## Icegaze (Apr 9, 2015)

Well listening to Turrin argument maybe darui looses. I dont believe he is as adapt at cqc like asuma is. 
Kishi made a point to hype Hien and asuma cqc skills 
I mean kisame backed off. Kisame!!! people!!! the guy who didnt get 1 panelled by killer bee

However i find it entirely ridiculous that people think its even a slight match against hiashi. hiashi doesnt even need to use kaiten before Mifune gets to him. releasing chakra alone has been shown to stop naruto punch and projectile (done by genin neji) so why hiashi cant release chakra to slow down an attack long enough to spin and break mifune i dont know. low diff

kakashi needs no explaination low diff


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## Zuhaitz (Apr 9, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> Well listening to Turrin argument maybe darui looses. I dont believe he is as adapt at cqc like asuma is.
> Kishi made a point to hype Hien and asuma cqc skills
> I mean kisame backed off. Kisame!!! people!!! the guy who didnt get 1 panelled by killer bee
> 
> ...



Can you show us the super cqc feats Asuma has?

Kisame didn't need to back off, and Kisame hasn't any good kenjutsu feat to begin with. Kisame isn't Gai/Kimimaro taijutsu level, he simply has way more strenght and durability, he compensates the lack of high level kenjutsu with his insane strenght.

Mifune does have better cqc feats than Asuma. He defeated Hanzou.


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## Icegaze (Apr 9, 2015)

so outdoing gai in cqc isnt a good feat? or u think everyone can just overpower gai? 

kisame opted to use ninjutsu after asuma got to him. thats called backing off

feel free to show us more feats from mifune though. cuz apparently stopping a rusty ninja is somehow great all of a sudden 

mifune can be more skilled all he wants asuma doesnt need massive skill to extend the range of his hien mid swing. choujiro and asuma both showed how that can be easily very effective.


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## Zuhaitz (Apr 9, 2015)

Gai's base cqc/taijutsu powers >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Asuma's

Kisame as you say opted to use ninjutsu, It's not that Asuma overpowered him or made him use ninjutsu. In a cqc combat Kisame can still win against your wanked Asuma.

Also Mifune can also use chakra infused sword, and he can even send/proyect the chakra.


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## Icegaze (Apr 9, 2015)

gai didnt make kisame back off. Asuma did due to his technique not skill but his Hien!!!
so hate all you want. mifune for all the wank barely has any feats bar beating rusty hanzo like every low to mid kage level cant do that. some mid 1 panel him but sure hype all u want 

asuma didnt overpower kisame. asuma technique let kisame know cqc was a bad idea. so he opted to fight at mid range. 

u want to hype mifune stopping hanzo good for u. asuma making kisame back off holds way more credit considering the same kisame hunts bijuu for sport. something hanzo is in no way known for or capable of

What u seem too slow to get is some people are well suited to fight against others despite their level
eg: Mei is stronger than asuma however would fair horribly against mifune who would stop her from forming seals 

gaara from the time he was a genin would troll hidan. 

gai being a kisame walking counter, kisame being a bijuu walking counter etc. 

Mifune hype comes from preventing ninja from being able to form seals. asuma, kakashi and hiashi do not need to form seals at all to fight


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## Zuhaitz (Apr 9, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> gai didnt make kisame back off. Asuma did due to his technique not skill but his Hien!!!



Another great quote for my sig 

In your manga world I guess Asuma was the one that fought Madara


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## Icegaze (Apr 9, 2015)

pile them up i love having a fan 
mifune fought madara in yours no doubt. i bet he was so fast madara couldnt pull of susanoo


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## Zuhaitz (Apr 9, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> pile them up i love having a fan
> mifune fought madara in yours no doubt. i bet he was so fast madara couldnt pull of susanoo



I am thinking of doing it.

I mine Mifune is a low to mid kage level. Whereas Asuma is a mid to high jounin, 2 or 3 tiers below. A little below or on par with Hidan, at least 2 tiers below Kisame who would stomp Asuma in a h2h combat.


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## Icegaze (Apr 9, 2015)

sadly kisame didnt stomp asuma in cqc so ur theories are just that yours. 

with his 2 or 3 tiers or if u want 9 tiers below he still evenly fought kisame and kisame changed his tactic 

thats canon since u arent the author i take it ur opinions are of no relevance when scans say otherwise


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## Zuhaitz (Apr 9, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> sadly kisame didnt stomp asuma in cqc so ur theories are just that yours.
> 
> with his 2 or 3 tiers or if u want 9 tiers below he still evenly fought kisame and kisame changed his tactic
> 
> thats canon since u arent the author i take it ur opinions are of no relevance when scans say otherwise



What isn't canon is your interpretation of that scene. Kisame thought that he could neg diff Asuma suing kenjutsu. When he saw that he could only low diff him he choose to neg diff him using ninjutsu.


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## Icegaze (Apr 9, 2015)

YES SURE!! which is why your idea of low or neg diff turned into kisame being injured and backing off
certainly 
you can do it. try harder with your fan fic 

neg diff would have been asuma not being able to avoid kisame swings which he not only did but then countered and kisame was unable to avoid him 

asuma injured kisame as much as base bee injured kisame .

so yh try harder go back and look at the panels. squint at them if you must. kisame was surrpised asuma got him because he thought he avoided asuma swing sadly he did not 

most importantly look at the polls of those who cared to vote what does it say? does anyone on this thread agree with u?


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## UchihaX28 (Apr 9, 2015)

Turrin said:


> You said and I quote, that he "outpace" them. Simply being able to evade some of their attacks is not "outpacing" them. It just means he wasn't getting blitz'd by Base-Gin/Kin.



 Fair enough.




> He was about to blitz him, until Kitsuchi save him:
> Link removed
> Link removed



 That wasn't a blitz. Darui had his entire body hidden behind a boulder, so without being a sensor and having his entire focus on him the entire time, it's easy for V2 Kingaku to speed-blitz behind him before Darui peeks through the boulder to check Kingaku's location.

 So that wasn't a blitz. Darui just didn't have his entire focus on him as his body was behind a boulder, allowing him no focus on Kingaku.




> It's not fair game, he was not expecting an attacked until the last second; he also wasn't in a good position to block with Samui, while at the same time holding Samui.



 Link removed

 He wasn't holding Samui, so it is fair game.



> How can you infer that? When was Ginkaku indicated to be as fast as someone world famous for their speed or as skilled in Kenjutsu as the greatest off all Samurai?



 Mifune wasn't praised for his speed. He was praised for his Kenjutsu and reflexes in CQC.

 I likely can't give you sufficient proof on that, but provided that Kin and Gin also had the Sage of the Six Path's tools along with the fact that Kabuto was confident in Kin and Gin being able to combat Darui and the First Division, I'd say there were definitely threats.



> Foot speed is how quickly someone can move their legs. Jumping speed is how much force can be exerted in one leap. Jumping speed therefore depends on physical strength. Sasuke's physical strength is not that impressive; he's only a 3.5 in the DB, which is two tiers less than his foot speed [4.5]; not to mention while air born he could not use Sharingan precog to anticipate an attack as he can't maneuver mid air.



 Jumping speed depends on how much force your feet can exert, so in all actuality, it should depend on your foot speed as that also relies on how much force you can generate through your feet.

 That's true about Sasuke not being able to dodge the attack, however, my main point was that Darui could easily detect his movement and form a sufficient counter against Sasuke. Darui actually wasn't shown using a seal against Sasuke and was only shown using a seal using his Raiton if that means anything.




> Nowhere was the suggested to be his top-speed, and he used Shunshin, which he did not use in the instance your citing.



 It doesn't matter. Free-fall never slowed Sasuke down which is the main point.




> It's not a matter of blitzing, it's a matter of interrupting Darui's attempt to form seals, forcing Darui to block his strike.



 Unless Darui can outpace Mifune while using seals which he likely can.




> Mifune is quite adept at closing distance. He closed the distance between himself and Hanzo, before Hanzo could clasp his hands together, despite his hands being only a few inches apart:
> Link removed
> Link removed
> 
> Regardless of how fast you think Hanzo's seal speed is, Mifune needed to close that distance insanely fast to preempt that seal, considering how fast even a normal human like I and you can clasp our hands together, from that close. Don't believe me, well try it out for yourself. Place your hands a few inches away and try to clasp them together as quickly as you can. It's like one mili-second. And you and I are not super-humans like Hanzo.



 Fair point, however, Hanzo underestimated Mifune's proficiency in Kenjutsu which allowed himself to remain vulnerable against Mifune. With caution, Darui will play defensively and gain distance while he does form his seals. Even then, his Suiton doesn't require seals.




> I thought you mean V2-Kinkaku's using his movement speed, not a chakra tail attack from a huge distance away. There's really little suggesting that chakra tail is faster than Mifune's world famous IAI techniques. Fuck Chouza reacted to another tail and there is very little suggesting that fatty is some speed demon.



 Chouza was likely from a farther distance and didn't manage to dodge it. Blocking =/= dodging it, not even close. Still, the fact that he used a chakra tail as a form of attack implies it's faster than his movement speed, similar to KCM Naruto using his chakra arms as it is faster than his normal movement speed.

 But still, strange of you to consider it slow when you stated that he blitzed Darui.




> Which again would work if the distance was larger, but 10m is very close. Darui will be forced into CQC and as you admit, he looses out in that exchanged.



 Not when he can outpace Mifune and gain some distance like he did against Kin and Gin.



> I'd agree with you that Darui has better odds to win if the distance was larger and he used Ranton/Kurokaminari to keep Mifune at a distance until he could overwhelm him. And I don't really think Mifune is on another "level" from Darui, I think the two are close in strength, which is why circumstance matters. If the match starts close Mifune likely wins, while if the match starts at long Darui likely wins; Mid could go ether way.



 Fair enough. Glad we agree on something.


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## Icegaze (Apr 9, 2015)

Turrin since i enjoyed ur last post with NarutoX28 
analyse again for me how the match would go between asuma and mifune

because u pointed out u dont believe mifune is on a whole other level than darui

do u believe darui to be on a whole other level from asuma?


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## Turrin (Apr 9, 2015)

NarutoX28 said:


> That wasn't a blitz. Darui had his entire body hidden behind a boulder, so without being a sensor and having his entire focus on him the entire time, it's easy for V2 Kingaku to speed-blitz behind him before Darui peeks through the boulder to check Kingaku's location.


Fair enough, I missed the "where did he go panel" since it's been awhile since I read that fight.



> Link removed
> 
> He wasn't holding Samui, so it is fair game.


Got the brothers mixed up. But Samui aside, it's still not fair game because he wasn't anticipating Darui to attack him, so he was not on guard in that instance.



> Mifune wasn't praised for his speed. He was praised for his Kenjutsu and reflexes in CQC.


Mifune was praised for preventing anyone from casting seals against him. He prevents seals by quickly closing the distance between himself and the enemy, and than using his IAI Kenjutsu to interrupt their seal weaving. These are feats of both technical kenjutsu proficiency as well as speed.



> I likely can't give you sufficient proof on that, but provided that Kin and Gin also had the Sage of the Six Path's tools along with the fact that Kabuto was confident in Kin and Gin being able to combat Darui and the First Division, I'd say there were definitely threats.


I think Gin and Kin are good in CQC, but for them to be close to Mifune, I'd need to ether see them having substantial Kenjutus/Speed Feats or them being hyped to a similar world famous degree. Nether of which those two come close to receiving in the manga.



> Jumping speed depends on how much force your feet can exert, so in all actuality, it should depend on your foot speed as that also relies on how much force you can generate through your feet.


Force has to do with body strength. Kishi separates body strength and speed into two categories in the Data-books. Sasuke's body strength score was not as good as his speed score, so there is some disconnect there, where Sasuke's jumping speed would not be comparable to his movement speed.



> That's true about Sasuke not being able to dodge the attack, however, my main point was that Darui could easily detect his movement and form a sufficient counter against Sasuke.


I just don't see how counter Sasuke's jumping speed means he can counter Mifune's IAI speed. It would be one thing if Darui countered Sasuke's full on max Shunshin/Sharingan Precog speed, but we didn't see anything near that.



> Darui actually wasn't shown using a seal against Sasuke and was only shown using a seal using his Raiton if that means anything.


A-lot of time people aren't shown doing the seals, in this case specifically we didn't see Darui's hands leading up to him releasing water wall. But we know Suijin Heki requires seals, so I have to assume he used them, unless something indicates otherwise. I also don't think just a water wall is stopping Mifune anyway, I think only Raiton-Water Wall could do that and we know he needs a seals for that combo.



> It doesn't matter. Free-fall never slowed Sasuke down which is the main point.


I fail to see how that shows Free-Fall didn't slow Sasuke down. Again nothing indicates that Shunshin was as fast as Sasuke's max speed Shunshin.



> Unless Darui can outpace Mifune while using seals which he likely can.


Honestly if someone of Darui caliber could completely counter Mifune's attempts to stop seals, It would make zero sense to me why Kishi would spend the time hyping Mifune's seal stopping capabilities and speed so extensively. And i'm not bashing Darui as I feel he is generally underestimated, but it's not like the guy is among the likes of top Kages, he's a solid exceptionally skilled Jonin - low kage individual, and something that's world famous should still be effective at least on against that class of enemy.



> Fair point, however, Hanzo underestimated Mifune's proficiency in Kenjutsu which allowed himself to remain vulnerable against Mifune. With caution, Darui will play defensively and gain distance while he does form his seals. Even then, his Suiton doesn't require seals.


Hanzo even after learning about Mifune's IAI speed, still never again attempted Hand-seals, so whether being cautious or not Hanzo knew he couldn't get off hand-seals against the guy or easily gain enough distance to use them.

Darui will be in the same boat, he can't escape someone as fast as Mfune that easily. He's not some Shunshin demon like B who can shunshin mountain sides in an instant. He doesn't have giant Summons to ride away on, or whatever. He will need to physically outrun Mifune, while at the same time defend Mifune's attacks, which nothing indicates to me he is capable of.



> Chouza was likely from a farther distance and didn't manage to dodge it. Blocking =/= dodging it, not even close. Still, the fact that he used a chakra tail as a form of attack implies it's faster than his movement speed, similar to KCM Naruto using his chakra arms as it is faster than his normal movement speed.


I don't see any indication the tail is faster than movement speed. But if that is the case than that just makes me believe the movement speed is not impressive, not the other way around. 

Chouza was not there to dodge, he was there to stop the tail. And sure he was further away, but if it was really all the fast than the fatty wouldn't have been able to react at all.

I just don't see any indication that these tails are super fast.



Icegaze said:


> Turrin since i enjoyed ur last post with NarutoX28
> analyse again for me how the match would go between asuma and mifune
> 
> because u pointed out u dont believe mifune is on a whole other level than darui
> ...



Yes I do believe Darui is on whole other level than Asuma, if not multiple levels. I really don't know where your getting this Asuma hype from. Asuma scratched a Kisame who is indicated to be much weaker in Part I than in Part II, considering Itachi stated Part I Kakashi would be a bitch for Kisame to handle, and we know Part II Kisame would wreck Part I Kakashi. Whether this is due to retecon or Kismae increasing in strength is up to you decide, but ether way he was much weaker back then. And it was just a scratch, that's it.

Than Asuma was easily defeated by thee weakest Akatsuki member bar none. 

Nothing I see from Asuma puts him remotely on par with Darui who punked out Suigetsu, was made a division commander alongside the likes of Gaara/Kakashi/Kitsuchi, and fought admirably against Ginkaku and Kinaku who defeated Tobirama on at least 1, if not 2 separate occasions. Darui is Low-Kage, while Asuma is just an example of a non fodder Jonin, and isn't even one of the stronger non-fodder Jonin, as characters like Zabuza, Part I Kakashi, etc.. have better feats and hype than him.


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## Zuhaitz (Apr 9, 2015)

You keep insisting that Asuma pushed Kisame back?


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## Icegaze (Apr 9, 2015)

because he did
kisame fell back and used ninjutsu
that doesnt mean asuma can beat kisame just that asuma is no push over. 

i see u decided to spite thread me. again kisame will win, same way kisame with just kenjutsu will beat base gai

him shaving either of them with samehada weakens them while he gets stronger. u dont have to be a genius to see the threat kisame poses in cqc 

its because he is such a big deal that even having him step back to try other methods is worth mentioning hence why i say asuma isnt some push over.


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## Zuhaitz (Apr 9, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> because he did
> kisame fell back and used ninjutsu
> that doesnt mean asuma can beat kisame just that asuma is no push over.
> 
> ...



Really, Kisame with just kenjutsu can defeat Base Gai? 

You think that Asuma with his wind blades can beat base Gai? 

You overestimate Asuma a lot.


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## Icegaze (Apr 9, 2015)

yes kisame with kenjutsu will beat base gai 
canon he already did. gai felt he had to use gates

yes asuma can beat base gai. gai hitting him with nunchaku wont kill asuma. asuma hien on the other hand is lethal 

also gai cant clash with asuma attacks. his attacks will cut gai nunchaku for the lolz

kisame is everyway shape or form will beat those 2. if gai stays in base he is no match for kisame.


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## Zuhaitz (Apr 9, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> yes kisame with kenjutsu will beat base gai
> canon he already did. gai felt he had to use gates



canon Kisame used suiton 



Icegaze said:


> yes asuma can beat base gai. gai hitting him with nunchaku wont kill asuma. asuma hien on the other hand is lethal


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## Icegaze (Apr 9, 2015)

oh i didnt know the suiton sent gai all the way to the bottom of the lake. 

that 
Link removed
boss suiton 

Link removed

;giogio


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## Zuhaitz (Apr 9, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> oh i didnt know the suiton sent gai all the way to the bottom of the lake.
> 
> that
> Link removed
> ...



What lake? Since when are lakes in the desert?


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## Icegaze (Apr 9, 2015)

and barfing the lake had something to do with the punch?  not sure if trolling


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## Zuhaitz (Apr 9, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> and barfing the lake had something to do with the punch?  not sure if trolling



No, but that lake has something to do with suiton.

Kisame used suiton, then Lee's taijutsu was enough to make Kisame drop Samehada (Lee showed better taijutsu than Asuma It seems), then Neji pushed Kisame and Tenten too. 

Then Gai again broke Kisame defense and took Samehada from Kisame. Better feat than Asuma's.

Then Samehada injured Gai's hands and returned to Kisame. While Kisame sealed Gai's students.

Then Kisame overpowered Gai with sheer strenght and used suitons to keep him under water.

Are you able to see the feats of Gai, Neji, TenTen and Lee that surppas Asuma's feat?

Are you able to see that Kisame had to use suitons to make Gai use the gates?


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## UchihaX28 (Apr 9, 2015)

Turrin said:


> Fair enough, I missed the "where did he go panel" since it's been awhile since I read that fight.



 It's okay. It's hard to remember every single little detail in such a large manga. 




> Got the brothers mixed up. But Samui aside, it's still not fair game because he wasn't anticipating Darui to attack him, so he was not on guard in that instance.



 There were no "exclamation marks" indicating surprise, so Ginkaku was on-guard and that's further supported when you clearly see Ginkaku attempting to evade the strike, but failed to do so. Darui's Shunshin at it's finest. You do present good evidence of Mifune being quick which makes me rethink my position. 




> Mifune was praised for preventing anyone from casting seals against him. He prevents seals by quickly closing the distance between himself and the enemy, and than using his IAI Kenjutsu to interrupt their seal weaving. These are feats of both technical kenjutsu proficiency as well as speed.



 Fair enough, I underestimated Mifune's speed here.




> I think Gin and Kin are good in CQC, but for them to be close to Mifune, I'd need to ether see them having substantial Kenjutus/Speed Feats or them being hyped to a similar world famous degree. Nether of which those two come close to receiving in the manga.



 Who knows. It just seems to be my opinion that Darui could pressure 2 Low Kage (at least) ninja to the point of having the superior one hold Darui's comrade hostage in order to do anything. I guess that's my personal belief.

 I do think Mifune could handle one of them in Kenjutsu, but with the Sage of the Six Path's tools, I'm very doubtful Mifune could handle one of them.




> Force has to do with body strength. Kishi separates body strength and speed into two categories in the Data-books. Sasuke's body strength score was not as good as his speed score, so there is some disconnect there, where Sasuke's jumping speed would not be comparable to his movement speed.



 I also concede here. I forgot to take into consideration that movement speed is also determined by the frequency of strides, so I do concede.




> I just don't see how counter Sasuke's jumping speed means he can counter Mifune's IAI speed. It would be one thing if Darui countered Sasuke's full on max Shunshin/Sharingan Precog speed, but we didn't see anything near that.



 I conceded above.

 Mifune is faster than I originally believed, but I still don't believe he's fast enough to subdue Darui. Despite being surprised (judging by Sasuke's expression), Sasuke still managed to effectively parry his strike with one arm at the last second while Mifune had the momentum. I'm not sure, I just don't see it.

 I also still believe that scene had more to do with his swift strike as it emphasized how quickly he could unsheathe his blade.




> A-lot of time people aren't shown doing the seals, in this case specifically we didn't see Darui's hands leading up to him releasing water wall. But we know Suijin Heki requires seals, so I have to assume he used them, unless something indicates otherwise. I also don't think just a water wall is stopping Mifune anyway, I think only Raiton-Water Wall could do that and we know he needs a seals for that combo.



 The first part is undeniably true. 

 No, you're actually correct. Tobirama needed one seal to perform the technique.

 I don't think anything suggest Mifune's strong enough to tank a ninjutsu considering it is considered a high-level Suiton as stated here:

 This is what Hanzō said.




> I fail to see how that shows Free-Fall didn't slow Sasuke down. Again nothing indicates that Shunshin was as fast as Sasuke's max speed Shunshin.



 All right, how do you feel about V1 Bee's Shunshin against Sasuke in Free-fall? Bee's reaction definitely implies it was his max speed.




> Honestly if someone of Darui caliber could completely counter Mifune's attempts to stop seals, It would make zero sense to me why Kishi would spend the time hyping Mifune's seal stopping capabilities and speed so extensively. And i'm not bashing Darui as I feel he is generally underestimated, but it's not like the guy is among the likes of top Kages, he's a solid exceptionally skilled Jonin - low kage individual, and something that's world famous should still be effective at least on against that class of enemy.



 I never stated Darui could counter Mifune's Kenjutsu. I just stated we have to take into consideration that Hanzo was stationary and didn't expect Mifune to counter his seal. We still have to take into consideration that Hanzo still parried his attack.

 I do agree with your assessment on Darui, however, I unfortunately do feel Mifune's a Jonin level ninja. I don't see Mifune being able to defend himself against 2 Low Kage ninja the way Darui did.



> Hanzo even after learning about Mifune's IAI speed, still never again attempted Hand-seals, so whether being cautious or not Hanzo knew he couldn't get off hand-seals against the guy or easily gain enough distance to use them.



 Hanzo's not that quick to begin with. Nagato still managed to rush towards Konan and defend himself against Hanzo's ninjutsu somewhat.



> Darui will be in the same boat, he can't escape someone as fast as Mfune that easily. He's not some Shunshin demon like B who can shunshin mountain sides in an instant. He doesn't have giant Summons to ride away on, or whatever. He will need to physically outrun Mifune, while at the same time defend Mifune's attacks, which nothing indicates to me he is capable of.



 Fair enough. I do believe from what Darui was capable of doing against Kin and Gin that he is able to at least keep up with Mifune, which is enough to at least perform a seal needed for Laser Circus.




> I don't see any indication the tail is faster than movement speed. But if that is the case than that just makes me believe the movement speed is not impressive, not the other way around.



 Despite V2 having a major boost on one's stats to the point where Kisame went from dodging V1 Bee, to being unable to evade V2 Bee.

 From Base to V2 should imply a hefty speed boost where Darui still successfully managed to evade his strike despite being drained of some chakra from the usage of the Sage of the Six Path's tools.




> Chouza was not there to dodge, he was there to stop the tail. And sure he was further away, but if it was really all the fast than the fatty wouldn't have been able to react at all.
> 
> I just don't see any indication that these tails are super fast.



 How would you know Chouza wouldn't be able to react to something that fast? After all, Dodai managed to effectively intercept Sandaime Raikage's strike with a ninjutsu and even pull Naruto out of the rubber ball which not even Kabuto could detect. It does seem like slower people can react to far faster opponents if need be.

 We also have the instance where CS2 Jugo managed to block V1 Raikage's strike at the last second, indicating how quickly one can block a strike and we do know that Jugo is a powerhouse himself, similar to Chouza, so it's not ridiculous for Chouza to be capable of defending something that can potentially be very fast.


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## Turrin (Apr 10, 2015)

NarutoX28 said:


> It's okay. It's hard to remember every single little detail in such a large manga.


That it is



> There were no "exclamation marks" indicating surprise, so Ginkaku was on-guard and that's further supported when you clearly see Ginkaku attempting to evade the strike, but failed to do so. Darui's Shunshin at it's finest.


I just don't think he had time to even be surprised. But I mean again if Darui did Blitz Ginkaku, that really doesn't make me think Darui is faster, but that Ginkaku is slower. To me we get a pretty good sense of Darui's speed when he clashes back and forth with Suigetsu, so I place him around Suigetsu's speed, give or take a little, and that's just not up to the world famous status Mifune is at.



> Who knows. It just seems to be my opinion that Darui could pressure 2 Low Kage (at least) ninja to the point of having the superior one hold Darui's comrade hostage in order to do anything. I guess that's my personal belief.


I'm not really buying them fearing Darui, so much as them just being villainous assholes that like to toy with people. I mean if they really felt afraid of Darui they would have just gone KN6. 

I also think one should bare in mind that Kin/Gin would have rather easily defeated Darui if not for the sheer luck of his favorite word changing and Darui receiving intel from Samui; and that's with them being down a treasure and not using KN.

That's not to say Darui didn't have some good feats in that fight, but saying Darui was any real threat by himself to Gin/Kin, is coming on way to strong for my liking.



> I do think Mifune could handle one of them in Kenjutsu, but with the Sage of the Six Path's tools, I'm very doubtful Mifune could handle one of them.


Well Darui didn't handle the Tools ether, he just got lucky.



> Mifune is faster than I originally believed, but I still don't believe he's fast enough to subdue Darui. Despite being surprised (judging by Sasuke's expression), Sasuke still managed to effectively parry his strike with one arm at the last second while Mifune had the momentum. I'm not sure, I just don't see it.


Alright let's consider Sasuke vs Mifune.

1) Sasuke is most likely faster than Darui, especially in reactions considering Sharingan Precog. However even Sasuke barely managed to block Mifune's strike before it took his head off [it came inches from his face]

2) Even Sasuke certainly did not have time to form seals there.

3) Nothing indicates that IAI technique was Mifune's fastest 

4) Sasuke has a legendary Ksunagi sword, which is probably a-lot more durable than Darui's generic sword. Mfiune has shown his top IAI technique can easily cleave through metal weapons like nothing, and while Darui can use Raiton-Flow, Mifune IAI tech cut through a metal weapon w/o him even chakra flowing his sword, so his chakra flow should counter Darui's Raiton, and than that just leaves an IAI slash that can cut through Metal weapons. And even if Darui's can prevent not beign cut through the first few slashes, you'd think after a certain amount his sword would also be split in half.



> I don't think anything suggest Mifune's strong enough to tank a ninjutsu considering it is considered a high-level Suiton as stated here:


Suijin-Heki isn't an offensive technique. It's a defensive one. And it's a defensive one that lacks many feats outside of defending Katon Ninjutsu which it holds the elemental advantage over. Mifune is a man who can cut through solid metal and that's w/o using chakra flow on his blade. Fuck even fodder Samurai were shown to cut through solid rock w/ chakra flow, so that should only increase Mifune's offense even further. Now what exactly indicates Suijinheki produces a vastly stronger wall (and it is a wall, as move literally translates to water wall) than solid Metal?



> All right, how do you feel about V1 Bee's Shunshin against Sasuke in Free-fall? Bee's reaction definitely implies it was his max speed.


That wasn't Sasuke's feat though that was B's. All Sasuke did was parry the attack with his sword and use that inertia to slip past B. We already know Sasuke can react quickly. What I'm doubting and still doubting is that Sasuke's jumping speed is equal to his full speed dashing speed.



> I never stated Darui could counter Mifune's Kenjutsu. I just stated we have to take into consideration that Hanzo was stationary and didn't expect Mifune to counter his seal. We still have to take into consideration that Hanzo still parried his attack.


Sure Hanzo reacted to his attack, but his seals were still stopped. I'm not doubt Darui could react to some of Mifune's attacks, i'm doubting he could get seals off.



> I do agree with your assessment on Darui, however, I unfortunately do feel Mifune's a Jonin level ninja. .


Depends how you define Jonin, but Mifune is clearly better than almost every Jonin in the entire ninja world since out of the 80,000 strong army that comprised every major nation, only Mifune and 3 other Jonins were made division commanders. And besides few outliers like Gai, B, and Naruto, every other shinobi that did not hold the title of Kage and was part of the alliance underperformed compared to the division commanders.



> I don't see Mifune being able to defend himself against 2 Low Kage ninja the way Darui did


I'm absolutely certain that Mifune could have done everything Darui did, except be lucky. Mifune certainly could clash with Ginkaku in Kenjutsu. Mifune could certainly use IAI to slice Ginkaku's arm off when he thinks he's not going to attack (or alternatively if Darui blitz'd him). I'm sure Mifune could make it difficult for Gin/Kin to trap him in the word game w/ prior knowledge from Samui and getting to see them use it on Atsui. The only part Mifune fails at is his secret word probably isn't luckily changing at just the right moment so he gets suck in the crimson gourd. But than again since Mifune is better in CQC, he might not get hit by the crimson gourd in the first place, thus performing better than Darui.



> Hanzo's not that quick to begin with. Nagato still managed to rush towards Konan and defend himself against Hanzo's ninjutsu somewhat.


That's not Hanzo that's his Jutsu, and it blew Nagato's legs nearly clean off, so i'm not sure how that's a miss. Than Hanzo evade the Soul Sucking Dragon of GM, which I must imagine is quite fast considering that's the Juubi's husk.



> Fair enough. I do believe from what Darui was capable of doing against Kin and Gin that he is able to at least keep up with Mifune, which is enough to at least perform a seal needed for Laser Circus.


But keeping up is not enough. Keeping up means he is reacting to Mifune's blows in time to block his slashes, not in time to form a seal and than still block his slash, which is more than keeping up, it's outpacing and Darui lacks any feats or hype that would imply he can out pace someone legendary for their speed and kenjutsu. Fuck I think i'm being pretty fair saying Darui keeps up.



> Despite V2 having a major boost on one's stats to the point where Kisame went from dodging V1 Bee, to being unable to evade V2 Bee.
> 
> From Base to V2 should imply a hefty speed boost where Darui still successfully managed to evade his strike despite being drained of some chakra from the usage of the Sage of the Six Path's tools.


Sorry, but I just don't think you can have it both ways. If you want to argue Darui blitz'd Ginkaku, that makes me see their speed as lesser than Suigetsu. If that's the case than sure V2 powers them up but their starting at such a low point that it's still not pushing them near someone world famous for their speed.

However like I said before, I personally simply think the Tail is slower than the main body, and Ginkaku was off guard against Darui.



> How would you know Chouza wouldn't be able to react to something that fast? After all, Dodai managed to effectively intercept Sandaime Raikage's strike with a ninjutsu and even pull Naruto out of the rubber ball which not even Kabuto could detect. It does seem like slower people can react to far faster opponents if need be.


Again it's not that I don't think these characters can be fast, it's that we are talking about them in the context of someone who is world famous for their speed and kenjutsu. When the only other world famous speedsters are Ei, Minato, Tobirama, and Shisui, i'm not going to take that hype lightly, and I just don't see how being quick as they may be measures up to being world famously quick.



> We also have the instance where CS2 Jugo managed to block V1 Raikage's strike at the last second, indicating how quickly one can block a strike and we do know that Jugo is a powerhouse himself, similar to Chouza, so it's not ridiculous for Chouza to be capable of defending something that can potentially be very fast.


CS2 Juugo actually has Senjutsu enhancing his speed and actually has that feat of good speed though. Chouza does not.


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## Zuhaitz (Apr 10, 2015)

Hanzou not that fast?
LOL
He was able to land an attack on Nagato, the holder of the rinnegan.
He dodged an attack from Nagato, another from the Gedo Mazo's sealing jutsu and he overspeed young Mifune.


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## Icegaze (Apr 10, 2015)

the attack on nagato was a trap. got nothing to do with speed
nagato can hold all the dojutsu in the world if u want him to
physically he was never implied or stated to have great physical speed. 

nagato never tried to attack hanzo. he used the soul dragon once and hanzo fled. the soul dragon got no noteworthy mention of speed to indicate most non fodder ninja could not evade it.


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## Zuhaitz (Apr 10, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> the attack on nagato was a trap. got nothing to do with speed
> nagato can hold all the dojutsu in the world if u want him to
> physically he was never implied or stated to have great physical speed.
> 
> nagato never tried to attack hanzo. he used the soul dragon once and hanzo fled. the soul dragon got no noteworthy mention of speed to indicate most non fodder ninja could not evade it.



It has to do with speed, Nagato couldn't dodge it 

Physically he is an Uzumaki  He tanked Bee's V2 Lariat to the face  He has reacted to attacks from KCM Naruto 


He tried to wipe all the team Hanzou had, including Hanzou himself, but Hanzou was fast enough to avoid a jutsu from the Gedo Mazou 

I guess the Gedo Mazo is overrated i your eyes


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## Grimmjowsensei (Apr 10, 2015)

Mifune gets shit on.

Mifune's swordplay has hype, but visually speaking it was nothing special. I am not even sure if he can get past Asuma.


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## Icegaze (Apr 10, 2015)

I agree grimmjow
however does anyone have the full translation on mifune profile 
as well as his Iai and flash techniques
maybe those who are hyping him have alot more DB info 
cuz from what i read seriously his hype is less impressive than asuma's and thats low


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## Zuhaitz (Apr 10, 2015)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> Mifune gets shit on.
> 
> Mifune's swordplay has hype, but visually speaking it was nothing special. I am not even sure if he can get past Asuma.



Mifune doesn't have enough panel time to show visually his feats. For that type of characters we must use power scaling based on the few thing they have showed, their portrayal and the hype.

Mifune has shown to defeat Hanzou, we know that he is fast, has good kenjutsu, chakra infused sword and certain immunity to poison.

He is one of the generals of the alliance, along with a Kage, 2 future Kages, 1 character that could have been a kage, but somehow his daughter took his position, and Mifune.
Does that suggest that Mifune is also a Kage level character?

As for hype, he is called "the hero", he is hyped to be fast enough to make ninjas unable to use ninjutsus and his sword is also hyped as really sharp.

Mifune has been shown, hyped and portrayed to be a kage level character.


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## Grimmjowsensei (Apr 10, 2015)

Zuhaitz said:


> Mifune doesn't have enough panel time to show visually his feats. For that type of characters we must use power scaling based on the few thing they have showed, their portrayal and the hype.
> 
> Mifune has shown to defeat Hanzou, we know that he is fast, has good kenjutsu, chakra infused sword and certain immunity to poison.
> 
> ...



Well, Kakashi and Darui were also division commanders, which put them on his level, from a portrayal standpoint.
Hiashi is also a guy who was portrayed around that level. 
So yeah, Mifune would clear Asuma due to having better portrayal, but portrayal isn't helping him in the rest of his matches. He still gets shit on by Darui, Kakashi and Hiashi. 

Anyone with the letter"I" @ the end of their name will shit on Mifune. Lets make a test. 
E*i*
Itach*i*
Kirab*i*


See ? Its failproof


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## Zuhaitz (Apr 10, 2015)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> Well, Kakashi and Darui were also division commanders, which put them on his level, from a portrayal standpoint.
> Hiashi is also a guy who was portrayed around that level.
> So yeah, Mifune would clear Asuma due to having better portrayal, but portrayal isn't helping him in the rest of his matches. He still gets shit on by Darui, Kakashi and Hiashi.
> 
> ...



I half agree. I don't think he can take Hiashi or Kakashi, but I think he has a chance against Darui.

Btw 
M*i*fune can't beat himself?


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## UchihaX28 (Apr 10, 2015)

Zuhaitz said:


> Hanzou not that fast?
> LOL
> He was able to land an attack on Nagato, the holder of the rinnegan.
> He dodged an attack from Nagato, another from the Gedo Mazo's sealing jutsu and he overspeed young Mifune.



 Nagato has no actual speed feats of him actually being incredibly fast to begin with. All his showings have really been high reaction speed, not actual movement speed.

 The example you presented is terrible considering Nagato rushed to protect Konan and still managed to defend himself against Hanzo's ninjutsu.

 Though yes, dodging the Gedo Mazo's Soul Dragon is impressive, but we have no idea how fast it is considering it's best feats are just speed-blitzing a bunch of fodder ninja. It could be fast, but it's certainly a lot slower than Mifune's IAI technique.

 But either way, Hanzo doesn't use Shunshin in combat as that will create an opening against him which any skilled ninja can take advantage of, so he uses his physical speed in combat and his physical speed hasn't really been shown to be all too impressive.

 Hanzo never outsped Mifune. Hanzo comparing Adult Mifune's parry to Young Mifune's parry seems to indicate that Young Mifune was able to create a rather strong defense against Hanzo topped off with the fact (and Turin, this is my interpretation of the scene) that Hanzo feared that his venom-sac would be ruptured to create an opening for Young Mifune to strike. This is significant because if Hanzo really feared that his venom-sac would be ruptured, then the only possible way that would actually happen is if Young Mifune was capable of landing that strike himself implying Young Mifune had to be relatively close to Prime-Hanzo or else Young-Mifune wouldn't have been skilled enough to potentially land a blow on Hanzo.

 And furthermore, Kishi replicated that scene when Adult Mifune and Hanzo had their final clash and it was clear that Mifune didn't outspeed Hanzo. He only managed to strike with great precision an instant faster than Hanzo ever did.

 Link removed

 Hell, it's outright shown they were clashing as equals with one not outspeeding the other.


 @Turrin

 I'm actually looking back at the manga and Mifune does have some hefty feats that are actually making me rethink my position. 
 But I will debate on some of your points tomorrow hopefully.


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## UchihaX28 (Apr 10, 2015)

Zuhaitz said:


> It has to do with speed, Nagato couldn't dodge it



 Because he rushed to save Konan, thus leaving himself vulnerable.



> Physically he is an Uzumaki  He tanked Bee's V2 Lariat to the face  He has reacted to attacks from KCM Naruto



 I'm assuming Karin is quick just because she's an Uzumaki, correct?

 Nagato's only implied to have chakra levels, stamina, and a very high life force, that's really it. Nagato hasn't been hyped up to have high physical speed.

 Tanking Bee's V2 Lariat was only for an instant as for most of the time, Bee lost momentum due to Preta Path's absorption. We also have to consider that Nagato's an ET Puppet being controlled by Kabuto meaning he has no emotions, he does not feel pain and that's further emphasized by the fact that he's an Edo Tensei. To suggest Alive Nagato who's crippled would be able to tank that seems ridiculous considering it pierced Kisame's flesh while Samehada parried the attack and that guys physical stats are monstrous.

 And reacting to KCM Naruto has more to do with reaction speed as opposed to physical speed along with the fact that he had shared field of vision which makes Naruto's techniques a lot easier to react to.



> He tried to wipe all the team Hanzou had, including Hanzou himself, but Hanzou was fast enough to avoid a jutsu from the Gedo Mazou
> 
> I guess the Gedo Mazo is overrated i your eyes



 We don't even know if the Soul Dragon is that quick to begin with because it's featless besides speed-blitzing a bunch of fodder ninja.


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## Zuhaitz (Apr 11, 2015)

Karin is indeed strong for a woman that doesn't seem to have had physical training.

Hanzou physical speed when he was old and rusty, after spending decades without physical training, was enough to caugh the ambush team in a few minutes.

Nagato's reaction speed is great, able to react to KCM Naruto and blank point, yet Hanzou was able to cover his legs in explosive tags before he could react.

Prime Hanzou fought  a team on konoha shinobis by himself, including the sannin. Speed is one of those things that are sightly important when fighting multiple enemies at once.


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## Icegaze (Apr 13, 2015)

i wasnt aware hanzo had any speed feats. bar dodging soul dragon never implied to be fast. 
now hanzo in water is a beast but on land i dont see how his speed is significant enough to mention it in an actual fight 

now mifune could be faster than everyone he is put up against but if speed was enough to win Ei would be stronger than the likes of tsunade and by a good margin which he really isnt 

i believe hiashi and kakashi are tailor made to beat him while at further distances than in the Op asuma and darui could very well win. more so asuma because of his cqc prowess. while darui if he can keep his distance simply wont loose and could very easily 1 shot


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## Zuhaitz (Apr 13, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> i wasnt aware hanzo had any speed feats. bar dodging soul dragon never implied to be fast.
> now hanzo in water is a beast but on land i dont see how his speed is significant enough to mention it in an actual fight
> 
> now mifune could be faster than everyone he is put up against but if speed was enough to win Ei would be stronger than the likes of tsunade and by a good margin which he really isnt
> ...




It blitzed dozens of jounins, It was implied to be fast. Not to mention that It's the seal jutsu of the Gedo Mazo.

Mifune himself is fast, and Hanzou could react to him and stop his first attack. As for MIfune feat, Sasuke with his sharingan activated could barely stop Mifune's attack a few inches from his face.

Mifune is the most powerful kenjutsu/taijutsu user of a country that only has taijutsu/kenjutsu users.

He was choosen to be on the same rank as Kakashi, Gaara, Kitsuchi and Darui. Asuma does not belong to that rank.


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## Icegaze (Apr 13, 2015)

fodder jounins have no speed though 
yes being the seal jutsu of Gm doesnt make it fast 

yes mifune is fast. jugo stopped V1 Ei attack doesnt put jugo at all on the same speed level though 

sasuke stopped the attack just fine, he didnt expect to be attacked by mifune hence the exclamation mark when mifune got to him 

yes he was but gaara trolls him, kakashi neg diffs him, he could beat darui and kitsuchi depending on the distance 
however with distance they both neg diff him entirely 

asuma certainly doesnt belong in that rank, nor does mifune who was there because he controls the samurai


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## Zuhaitz (Apr 13, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> fodder jounins have no speed though
> yes being the seal jutsu of Gm doesnt make it fast
> 
> yes mifune is fast. jugo stopped V1 Ei attack doesnt put jugo at all on the same speed level though
> ...



The thing is that It didn't blitz one, or all of them at the same time. There were shinobis that saw how his friends were sould fucked, and despite having seen the attack once, they couldn't react when the attack went for them.

And Nagato was seen to increase or focus the attack when directed to Hanzou.

If he stopped it just fine he wouldn't have let Mifune to get that close to his head, literally.

I mean that as Mifune hasn't have enough screen time, we have to powerscale him based on his potrayal aswell. He was rank with Kakashi, Darui and Gaara (3 Kages), and Kitsuchi (someone who had clearly Kage level).


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## Icegaze (Apr 13, 2015)

yes but they are fodder. sasuke defeated 1000 shinobi despite the 1 to 999th shinobi seeing how fast and strong sasuke was. defeating fodder isnt a feat. any named ninja can take out fodder in 1 move

he wasnt seen to increase or focus the attack in any way. after clearing the fodder he went for hanzo. hanzo casually evaded it.despite not being known for his speed 

look at the scan. mifune jumped at his head, he put his sword up and blocked. nothing more to that panel. 

u feel the need to power scale him. no one feels the need to do that. 
yes he was ranked with all of them, however his skill set makes him massively 1 dimensional therefore alot easier to handle than kakashi, gaara etc. 

hence why they are mid to high while he is low kage level. being 1 dimensional is very limiting. 

despite mifune level he is absolute entire fodder to gaara. consequence of being 1 dimensional


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## Zuhaitz (Apr 13, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> yes but they are fodder. sasuke defeated 1000 shinobi despite the 1 to 999th shinobi seeing how fast and strong sasuke was. defeating fodder isnt a feat. any named ninja can take out fodder in 1 move
> 
> he wasnt seen to increase or focus the attack in any way. after clearing the fodder he went for hanzo. hanzo casually evaded it.despite not being known for his speed
> 
> ...



You say it as if Sasuke's feat wasn't impressive. Asuma can't take down 1000 jounin fodders.

Hanzou is fast. He based a great part of his fighting style in taijutsu, so his speed must be fast.

In that panel Sasuke has "!", that means that he was surprised, probably because he just reacted to Mifune when he was about to cut his head.

Once again you feel as you could speak for all the forum despite none ever agreeing with you. Look at the last 2 or 3 pages, It has been agreed that powerscaling Mifune is neccesary.

Lee and Gai's arsenal is solely based on taijutsu...


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## Icegaze (Apr 13, 2015)

no he cant
however too many ninja can take out 1000. so really isnt not impressive. gaara without trying can do that. so can itachi etc 
too many characters to mention 

hanzo has no speed feats but sure he is fast if u want him to be 

taijutus is part of hidan fighting style yet u wont call him fast. taijutsu is part of chouji fighting style yet u wont call him fast, same for hinata etc. so why hanzo must be fast because he uses taijutsu is beyond me

yes he was surprised. it was a surprise attack. he did not expect mifune to attack him. he was focused on danzo 
who he came to kill not some samurai he could neg diff if he paid attention to 

ok power scale him all u want ur free to do so. mifune is still low kage level as agreed by even urself and utterly gets neg diff by everyone in the mid kage level section 

yes lee and gai got gates. u want to compare them? btw mifune is above lee. however gai is horrendously superior in every way. gai despite being 1 dimensional can attack at a distance and has speed that far far exceeds mifunes

Ei is also solely taijutsu however he is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>mifune by very very far


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## Zuhaitz (Apr 13, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> no he cant
> however too many ninja can take out 1000. so really isnt not impressive. gaara without trying can do that. so can itachi etc
> too many characters to mention



Only Kage level ninjas.



Icegaze said:


> hanzo has no speed feats but sure he is fast if u want him to be



Dodging the Gedo Mazo's attack (I guess the Gedo Mazo is barely jounin level)
Reacting to Nagato is easy aswell, not to mention counter attack and caught him before he could avoid it.



Icegaze said:


> taijutus is part of hidan fighting style yet u wont call him fast. taijutsu is part of chouji fighting style yet u wont call him fast, same for hinata etc. so why hanzo must be fast because he uses taijutsu is beyond me



Because he has speed feats that tell us so, and because him being the fastest ninja in the water should suggest you that he isn't an slowpoke on the ground.



Icegaze said:


> yes he was surprised. it was a surprise attack. he did not expect mifune to attack him. he was focused on danzo
> who he came to kill not some samurai he could neg diff if he paid attention to



With a sharingan he couldn't predict the attack? 



Icegaze said:


> ok power scale him all u want ur free to do so. mifune is still low kage level as agreed by even urself and utterly gets neg diff by everyone in the mid kage level section



Obviously.



Icegaze said:


> yes lee and gai got gates. u want to compare them? btw mifune is above lee. however gai is horrendously superior in every way. gai despite being 1 dimensional can attack at a distance and has speed that far far exceeds mifunes
> 
> Ei is also solely taijutsu however he is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>mifune by very very far



A uses Nin-tai.


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## Icegaze (Apr 13, 2015)

yes only kage level ninja. there are alot of those. so not so impressive

its not. however the jutsu isnt implied to be fast in anyway. i dont get ur butthurt. its not because its gedo mazo that everything it does must be fast. then again didnt chouji punch an even more powerful version of gedo mazo?
despite chouji being no where close to that tier ?

he isnt a slow poke on the ground fair enough. nor is kisame, despite kisame being much slower than bee on the ground he is much faster in water. so the 2 dont go hand in hand necessarily. poor desperate conclusion there.

hanzo is fast but his speed bares no significance in battle. only actual speed stars speed matter in battle and can be used to their advantage . despite kakashi being faster than the jin\s based on feats he couldnt blitz them. 

non speed stars speed have no actual impact in the battle. only people like Ei, minato etc make their speed matter. tsunade isnt slow however her speed wont give her some advantage in a battle

sharingan doesnt predict everything. it didnt even predict darui attack  so i dont get ur point. 

fair enough A uses nin tai good for A. point still stands gai is horribly superior


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## Zuhaitz (Apr 13, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> yes only kage level ninja. there are alot of those. so not so impressive



yeah, most of the 100000 ninjas of the alliance were kage level 



Icegaze said:


> its not. however the jutsu isnt implied to be fast in anyway. i dont get ur butthurt. its not because its gedo mazo that everything it does must be fast. then again didnt chouji punch an even more powerful version of gedo mazo?
> despite chouji being no where close to that tier ?



It was implied to be fast, It blitzed dozens of jounins, that's how the speed is implied.



Icegaze said:


> he isnt a slow poke on the ground fair enough. nor is kisame, despite kisame being much slower than bee on the ground he is much faster in water. so the 2 dont go hand in hand necessarily. poor desperate conclusion there.



Kisame is a tank. Does Hanzou look like the tank type of the character?
Hanzou has been potrayed as fast/skilled kenjutsu user instead of the strong/durable tank type.



Icegaze said:


> hanzo is fast but his speed bares no significance in battle. only actual speed stars speed matter in battle and can be used to their advantage . despite kakashi being faster than the jin\s based on feats he couldnt blitz them.



Hanzou's speed has been showed in the little screen time he had. Reacting to Nagato and destroying his legs, dodging the Gedo Mazo's jutsu, keeping up with Mifune and his iai technique...



Icegaze said:


> non speed stars speed have no actual impact in the battle. only people like Ei, minato etc make their speed matter. tsunade isnt slow however her speed wont give her some advantage in a battle
> 
> sharingan doesnt predict everything. it didnt even predict darui attack  so i dont get ur point.
> 
> fair enough A uses nin tai good for A. point still stands gai is horribly superior



No, Gai's speed, or even Lee's speed did matter. Mifune's speed must be just below the likes of Minato, A or Naruto so his potrayal makes sense.


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## Icegaze (Apr 13, 2015)

when the 100000 had 1% of relevant characters which is what matter. stop being butthurt. u know what i mean
do u remember the name of the guy gari 1 shotted? no u dont he is fodder. now u know who sakura is right. good 

 
fast techniques, amaterasu, Iai, kamui, air palm, raikiri, chidori, these are fast techniques. Soul dragon has no DB statement to imply its fast in any way. that would be like claiming gari jutsu can 1 shot anyone because it blew to bits a fodder. 

Ei is tank. are u saying he is slow because of it? looks can be deceiving 

hanzo was never hyped or potraryed to be a kenjutsu user. the Db simply states he uses poison weapons. no mention of his speed or skill with it. try harder

since when was nagato fast though? any mention of his speed anywhere? 

do tell me when lee speed mattered. also lee and gai are speedstars. try and read better 

yes his speed is below them. not doubting it. very clearly so. if he was Ei speed he will be at Ei level. however he is not

*i would like to point out that mifune speed is overrated. if he were trully that fast he would have never learnt flash. which allows him to attack at a distance and also one of the ways he might stop ninja from using seals. 

kishi usually gives cqc users that arent horribly fast a way to get to the enemy. hyuuga can use air palm, mifune uses flash or Iai depending on the distance. 
juugo can jet pack boost etc. 

gai seems to be the only one who he gave ridiculous speed 2 and the ability to hit people from far despite being cqc based. *

*Also i believe Iai is 0-5m. therefore a short range technique. not too different from things like 64 palm which is a high speed combo which can only be used up close. Iai makes mifune strike fast. mifune footspeed itself isnt legendary*

Unless turrin says otherwise but having read what he translated thats whats heavily implied


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## Zuhaitz (Apr 13, 2015)

You only consider relevant the high and top tiers 

That's your fault, not mine.

Most of Madara's and Hashirama's jutsu aren't said to be fast so I guess that most of the kage level ninjas can dodge them 

Have you seen Hanzou using his weapons? 

Your opinion isnt the same as a fact, you should learn that.


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## Icegaze (Apr 13, 2015)

lol plot wise only high and top tier are relevant
not my fault thats kishi's fault 
do name a low tier primary character or even secondary
with actual panels 
1010 had 11 panels in 700 pages of manga. hope u dont think she is relevant 

 most of hashirama and madara jutsu got AoE so no they arent so fast. however wont be dodged

unless u think ibuse silly poison gas got the same AoE as PS or budda.  who knows we know how u like to baselessly hype

hope u not trying to compare lowly hanzo to them e 

no have u?

he used it and lost with it. fact kishi never hyped him for his weapon usage. go cry to him not me


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## Zuhaitz (Apr 13, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> lol plot wise only high and top tier are relevant
> not my fault thats kishi's fault
> do name a low tier primary character or even secondary
> with actual panels
> 1010 had 11 panels in 700 pages of manga. hope u dont think she is relevant



Shikamaru, Sai, Chouji, Yamato, Ino, Lee, Hinata, etc.



Icegaze said:


> most of hashirama and madara jutsu got AoE so no they arent so fast. however wont be dodged
> 
> unless u think ibuse silly poison gas got the same AoE as PS or budda.  who knows we know how u like to baselessly hype



So Hashirama's and Madara's jutsu rely on their AoE only? 



Icegaze said:


> hope u not trying to compare lowly hanzo to them e
> 
> no have u?
> 
> he used it and lost with it. fact kishi never hyped him for his weapon usage. go cry to him not me





We saw Hanzou fought using his weapon as main fighting style and he defeated young Mifune, along with an squad of samurais with just his tai and kenjutsu.


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## Icegaze (Apr 13, 2015)

they arent all that relevant 
kishi likes them sure but they need naruto chakra just to survive. and got less panel time than the likes of sakura 
not sure if i would call them that. but sure attempt making ur point 

yes madara and hashirama jutsu are purely AoE. when they fight maps must be redrawn. its not cuz their jutsu is super fast  u dont get the obvious 

budda doesnt need to be fast to tag u. the shit covers battlefield wide Areas. Obito called bijuudama slow. 

good luck avoiding it though. 

ok and neji main fighting style is taijutsu does that make him some speed monster ? is his speed somehow relevant in battle?

Hanzo is fast sure, same way tsunade is. big whoop,they arent dominating anyone on their level  in speed.

even asuma could be super fast to fodder ninja he took out 9. doesnt mean the likes of hebi sasuke wont see him coming in slow motion


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## Zuhaitz (Apr 13, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> they arent all that relevant
> kishi likes them sure but they need naruto chakra just to survive. and got less panel time than the likes of sakura
> not sure if i would call them that. but sure attempt making ur point



If you think that Mei or Oonoki was more relevant than Shikamaru you should stop reading shonen and start with something easier, try colour books or something.



Icegaze said:


> yes madara and hashirama jutsu are purely AoE. when they fight maps must be redrawn. its not cuz their jutsu is super fast  u dont get the obvious
> 
> budda doesnt need to be fast to tag u. the shit covers battlefield wide Areas. Obito called bijuudama slow.
> 
> good luck avoiding it though.



The budah moved hundreds of meters in less than second.... The budah is damn fast. Hashirama and Madara are both realy fast and their jutsus are even faster so that they can hit each other.

kyubi's Bijuu dama is insanely fast itself and the budah was faster.



Icegaze said:


> ok and neji main fighting style is taijutsu does that make him some speed monster ? is his speed somehow relevant in battle?





Yes, of course his speed has been relevant in his fights. What have you read? 

Neji killing dozens of spiders while dodging supersonic arrows was thanks to his speed.
Neji being able to beat up Lee was thanks to his speed.
Neji reacting and stopping KN0 Naruto was thanks to his speed.

Neji is faster than base Lee when It comes punching and kicking.



Icegaze said:


> Hanzo is fast sure, same way tsunade is. big whoop,they arent dominating anyone on their level  in speed.
> 
> even asuma could be super fast to fodder ninja he took out 9. doesnt mean the likes of hebi sasuke wont see him coming in slow motion





Didn't you read when I wrote about the tank and speedsters.

Most of the taijutsu/kenjutsu users fit under 2 categories, tanks or speedsters.

Kisame, Tsunade, Kakuzu, Kitsuchi and Juugo are examples of tanks, strong and durable maybe with regenerative powers.

Mifune, Hanzou, Itachi, Tobirama, Minato fit under the speedster category, they aren't as durable or strong as the tanks, but they are more skilled and fast.

The 2 Raikages are expections as they fit both categories, but they are more tanks than speedsters, the same with Gai, but he is more an speedster than a tank. Asuma is balanced aswell, but he is just a little above the average in every stat.


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## Icegaze (Apr 13, 2015)

sure thing buddy


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## Zuhaitz (Apr 14, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> sure thing buddy



Ironically this is your best post in a while.

And you are saying that the Bijuu damas are slow on it


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## Icegaze (Apr 17, 2015)

Having read mifune flash technique i think he should be able to beat the first 2 guys 

it seems flash is a pretty fast technique. so even if he is unable to physically close the distance he can still harm them


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