# Law vs Zoro



## jjjjjbbbbnnnnnn (Mar 27, 2015)

Which one of these meme characters wins?


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## ShadoLord (Mar 27, 2015)

Law wins, the sheer amount of hax technique he has is off the chart.

I'd even say Law>Luffy.


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## Daisuke Jigen (Mar 27, 2015)

Issho said:


> Hype: Law
> Feats: Law
> Portrayal: Law
> Character: Law
> ...


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## Luke (Mar 27, 2015)

What Issho said.


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## Extravlad (Mar 27, 2015)

Law is totally outclassed in pretty much every way.
Zoro's CoA is too strong for Law's hax to be relevant.
Zoro outmatchs him badly in CQC, but he also has an advantage in term of range and his slashes are much stronger than Law's.

And yea there's also Shi shishi sonson, we saw that Law's reaction time is pretty poor compared to Vergo's in Punk Hazard, so he would most likely not be able to dodge that one.

Zoro wins.


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## Bernkastel (Mar 27, 2015)

Law definitely wins.
Too much hax for Zoro to handle.
Evenn Luffy might lose to Law.


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## Etherborn (Mar 27, 2015)

Law is confirmed to win even more easily after this chapter. His stamina and endurance feats are ridiculous, and it's game over for Zoro if he lands one gamma knife. Do people even realize what he just pulled off while he was unarmed in every sense of the word? Granted he'll actually have to create an opening to use Gamma Knife, but can anyone honestly say that Law wouldn't be able to do that at this point? I mean besides Extravlad, he's irrelevant. 

This is going to end with Law eventually getting in close with shambles and then fucking up Zoro's innards. The fact that even Doflamingo would have been fucked without his rather insane ability to stitch his organs back together means that the damage from that move is no joke. And if he could land it on Doflamingo with one arm and no sword, Zoro's chances are just that much lower. 

He's shown that he's a threat even without Room. With that much mastery of a powerful devil fruit, he simply outclasses Zoro. I'd like to know whether they get intel though. Otherwise I can't really determine the difficulty.


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## Magentabeard (Mar 27, 2015)

Law wins after this chapter 

Before it was Law ~ Zoro 

But now Law >> Zoro and Luffy

Law has a one shot move he can pull of easily like wtf? He implied that characters even stronger than Doflamingo would die to gamma knife. Law can beat Vista, Law can beat low top tiers who don't have a logia. Law just has to get 1 gamma knife in and GG.


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## Ruse (Mar 27, 2015)

Luffy ~ Law > Zoro IMO


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## Extravlad (Mar 27, 2015)

> Luffy ~ Law > Zoro IMO


Whatever you've been reading for the past 5 years, it definitely wasn't One Piece.


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## Kaiser (Mar 27, 2015)

Law wins but i don't see how latest chapter changed anything. Gamma knife still needs to be landed(like any of his hax techniques) and he used a cheap trick on an off-guard Doflamingo for it to be landed. He is still stronger than Zoro anyway

Luffy ~ Law > Zoro


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## Extravlad (Mar 27, 2015)

God OL is so freaking dumb.

You need to be blind to not see that Zoro's feats are far superior.


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## yantos (Mar 27, 2015)

last chapter isnt changing any thing cause gamma knif  is the same as his slash if you have strong enough haki you will render it useless and considering the attack speed i honestly dont see it touching roronoa if he wanted to dodge unless law got a sneak shot like the last chapter
as for the op 
if zoro`s haki is enough to fend off law he wins if not he lose simple as that


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## Ruse (Mar 27, 2015)

Extravlad said:


> Whatever you've been reading for the past 5 years, it definitely wasn't One Piece.



Law got you all caught in your feelings


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## Daisuke Jigen (Mar 27, 2015)

How many pages will we get this time, I wonder? I'd say at least 5.


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## Jossaff (Mar 27, 2015)

At this point Law can pull out any dumb hax technique up from his ass , Law>Luffy>Zoro


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## Extravlad (Mar 27, 2015)

> Law got you all caught in your feelings


Law
- can't even give mid diff to Doffy despite using tricks.

Zoro
-not only managed to break through Fuji's gravity but also pushed him back with a noname slash.


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## Sherlōck (Mar 27, 2015)

At this point Zolo wankers are more salty about Law than Luffy.


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## Dr. White (Mar 27, 2015)

Law wins High Difficulty, nothing has changed except we now know Law has one more damage doing OHKO in combo with Radio Knife, instead of previous OHKO like Mountain Slice, and MES that don't kill. It also adds another shambles use that got one over on dofla making the total 3. 

Zoro's probably better than Law COA will help him fend off the hax for a while, and his offensive set of course will press Law, but Law's swordsmanship, Haki can allow him to fend off Zoro's attacks, but Law's fruit is just too much here; shambles for escape/ surprise attacks, Tact for environmental control, scan for precise locating (with COO), and then his slew off offensive attacks just make this too much for Zoro to win. Unless he shows some COA feats that would pit him > Vergo significantly, I'm not budging.


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## Venom (Mar 27, 2015)

Law high diff for now considering all the hax his fruit brings
Though we have yet to see Zoro in a fight that takes him to his limits whereas Law has pretty much shown us nearly 100% of what he got.
You can not reasonably compare these two so I wouldn't be too surprised that once Zoro shows us his limits he can approach to a extreme diff fight.


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## Magician (Mar 27, 2015)

Honestly with all his hax, the only way to beat Law at this point is to either have similar hax or a very significant haki advantage, like _very_ significant.


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## Etherborn (Mar 27, 2015)

Extravlad said:


> Law
> - can't even give mid diff to Doffy despite using tricks.
> 
> Zoro
> -not only managed to break through Fuji's gravity but also pushed him back with a noname slash.



Law: Surpassed Zoro's best two destructive capacity feats in Dressrosa with one "noname slash" back in Punk Hazard. 

Faced off against Fujitora for far longer than Zoro did, along with Doflamingo at the same time. 

Escaped Fujitora and Doflamingo, saved several of the Strawhats from Doflamingo, and then proceeded to 1v1 Doflamingo. 

Lost easily due to his injuries and loss of stamina, got shot in the heart, and got handcuffed by seastone which drained his energy, only for him to get back up and fight Doflamingo again after escaping and fodderizing Trebol. Impaled Doflamingo with injection shot, survived the loss of his arm as well as getting shot again, and almost killed Doflamingo with Gamma Knife despite the sum of his injuries. 

Zoro: Needed mid difficulty to beat Pica, one of the seats, despite being fresh. Needed two different high end moves to cut a mountain in half and then cut through Pica's featless haki and was seen panting in the end, whereas as Law strained himself far less to cut a mountain and a stronger armaments user in half in one shot. 

Got harmed by the smallest gravity attack we've ever seen Fujitora use, including the one he used against fodder in the beginning of the arc. To his credit he escaped from it and stopped Fujitora with a flying slash, although he failed to inflict any harm. 

Facts are facts. Based on feats Law wins mid-high difficulty at most, but by powerscaling Zoro should give him high difficulty if he has full intel.


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## LyricalMessiah (Mar 27, 2015)

There's no way Law beats Zoro with Mid difficulty. Law wins with very High difficulty, simply put. Honestly, I was of the opinion that Zoro had a shot at winning against Law prior to Law's new showings in the latest chapter, and thus I'll have to give it to Law with Very high difficulty. If assuming they engage in battle and Law brings out the big guns at the start of the battle, Zoro would have to keep his distance away from him or engage in close quarter combat and make sure that he doesn't get touched by 'it' His notably powerful Haki will put up adequate protection against Law's attacks though not to a full extent when Law uses his ability to its full potential in their fight such as techniques like Shambles, injection shot, MES, Room cut(s) et cetera. Law himself has quite a handful to deal with from Zoro whose brute power in which he displayed against Pica could physically overpower him if he doesn't get out of the way by teleporting and needs to carefully and efficiently be capable of redirecting his humongous and powerful slashes.

Zoro is very good against opponents whose method of engaging in a battle is to crush their opponents with their brute force, power, Haki et cetera but against a cunning opponent like Law who's shown that it takes a lot to put him down and can do the unexpected against you that'd cost you a lot if you aren't focusing on him, I think Zoro will fall prey to one of Law's attacks at some point in their fight. Of course, this isn't me trying to say that Zoro won't push Law to any significant difficulties.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Mar 27, 2015)

Doflamingo has been dodging laws attacks any chance he gets. If he is not confident in blocking laws attacks, then  at Zoro just ignoring laws devil fruit with CoA.

Zoro gets chopped in half.


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## Amol (Mar 27, 2015)

Magician said:


> Honestly with all his hax, the only way to beat Law at this point is to either have similar hax or a very significant haki advantage, like _very_ significant.



Basically this .
Zoro doesn't have any hax and his haki is on same general level of Law.
Law has shown to be good in CQC too.
Law wins with high diff.
It could be extreme diff if Zoro shows better feats when he finally goes all out.


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## Freechoice (Mar 27, 2015)

Law on the low high diff spectrum

Law > Luffy

Mind has been changed


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## Yuki (Mar 27, 2015)

Law just like last time.


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## HisMajestyMihawk (Mar 27, 2015)

Extravlad said:


> Law is totally outclassed in pretty much every way.
> Zoro's CoA is too strong for Law's hax to be relevant.




The only information you need


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## Etherborn (Mar 27, 2015)

HisMajestyMihawk said:


> The only information you need



No actually I need much more than that. Armaments haki is not the by all end all. It never was and it still isn't. 

With some Zoro fans it's like mastering a devil fruit automatically nullifies everything a character does because somehow devil fruits are not a legitimate way to get stronger in One Piece.


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## Nox (Mar 27, 2015)

After the last chapter and taking into consideration everything that has happened post TS I am now changing my stance from Luffy >= Law > Zoro *to* Law >= Luffy > Zoro. He beat Zoro with High Diff,


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## Extravlad (Mar 28, 2015)

The amount of Law wank in this thread is unreal.



> Law: Surpassed Zoro's best two destructive capacity feats in Dressrosa with one "noname slash" back in Punk Hazard.


Law is using hax moves, his attacks deals no damage, you block them with haki and it's over, you take no damage from them.
Also Zoro's feat against Pika was far more impressive anyway.



> Faced off against Fujitora for far longer than Zoro did, along with Doflamingo at the same time.


Ran away from Fujitora and Doffy, got his ass kicked then faked being K.O to run away once again like a coward, only survived because Fuji was eating noodles while Doffy was toying with him.



> Escaped Fujitora and Doflamingo, saved several of the Strawhats from Doflamingo, and then proceeded to 1v1 Doflamingo.


Ran away like a coward, got caught and stomped by a trolling Doflamingo.



> Lost easily due to his injuries and loss of stamina, got shot in the heart, and got handcuffed by seastone which drained his energy, only for him to get back up and fight Doflamingo again after escaping and fodderizing Trebol. Impaled Doflamingo with injection shot, survived the loss of his arm as well as getting shot again, and almost killed Doflamingo with Gamma Knife despite the sum of his injuries.



Law lost because he was inferior to Doffy in every single way, he used all kind of tricks and still ended up losing all the time.
He's weak compared to Doffy, he didn't do shit to him until last chapter where he got a free shot thanks to faking out his own death.

Straight up 1V1, Doffy would mid diff Law.




> Zoro: Needed mid difficulty to beat Pica, one of the seats, despite being fresh. Needed two different high end moves to cut a mountain in half and then cut through Pica's featless haki and was seen panting in the end, whereas as Law strained himself far less to cut a mountain and a stronger armaments user in half in one shot.


Dude dunno what drugs you're one but you really need to stop it's no good for your brain.
Zoro lowdiffed Pika, pretty much fodderized him, the only reason why this fight didn't end in a few seconds is because Pika played hide and seek with Zoro.
Law's slash against Vergo was his strongest move, Law doesn't name his slashes just like WB with his quakes, that doesn't mean it was an average move.
In Zoro's case it's different, he did push back Fuji with a noname slash and we know he gives names to his stronger ones.



> Got harmed by the smallest gravity attack we've ever seen Fujitora use, including the one he used against fodder in the beginning of the arc. To his credit he escaped from it and stopped Fujitora with a flying slash, although he failed to inflict any harm.


How do you know it was the weakest gravity attack? Still better than Fuji not even using it against Sabo lmao.
Pushing back Fujitora is better than every single feat Law has accomplished in the entire series.


Now here are the *real facts*

Zoro has way better feats than Law and Luffy combined, way better portrayal than both so far and hasn't even used his full strength yet.
Anyone who deny that is either a hater or just braindead.




> Doflamingo has been dodging laws attacks any chance he gets. If he is not confident in blocking laws attacks, then  at Zoro just ignoring laws devil fruit with CoA.


Zoro's CoA is better than Doffy's.


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## Yuki (Mar 28, 2015)

Extravlad said:


> Zoro's CoA is better than Doffy's.


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## Extravlad (Mar 28, 2015)

I hate how you assume Doffy MUST have a better CoA than Zoro because he is the arc's main antagonist.
This is such a retarded logic.
Doffy's main strength isn't CoA, otherwise he wouldn't dodge Law's moves.

Zoro has a better CoA than Doffy, a higher durability and his offensive power is most likely on par.

He's slower, with worse CoO and stamina is probably even.


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## trance (Mar 28, 2015)

Extravlad said:


> Law
> - can't even give mid diff to Doffy despite using tricks.
> 
> Zoro
> -not only managed to break through Fuji's gravity but also pushed him back with a noname slash.



A serious Issho - or any Admiral - bends Zoro and Law over at the same time.


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## Gohara (Mar 28, 2015)

Zoro wins with around high difficulty.  Maybe high to extremely high difficulty.  Luffy should be well above Law's level given that the former trains more than the latter does during the time skip, and with Rayleigh at that.  Luffy also has a faster rate of progression than Law does.  Zoro isn't much weaker than Luffy, so if Law is well below Luffy's level then he should be no more powerful than Zoro IMO.  Zoro also defeats Pica with mid to high difficulty, whereas Law is around as powerful as Vergo.


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## Dr. White (Mar 28, 2015)

Vlad's Troll Formula is W^2 + I/R

Wank squared + the sum of his insults divided the amount of realism in his post (for example saying Law vs Doffy 1v1 would be mid diff for Doffy) which is there to make his trolling somewhat believable. Wank and realism are both measured in sentence units.

I've cracked your code Vlad.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Mar 28, 2015)

Extravlad said:


> I hate how you assume Doffy MUST have a better CoA than Zoro because he is the arc's main antagonist.
> This is such a retarded logic.
> Doffy's main strength isn't CoA, otherwise he wouldn't dodge Law's moves.
> 
> ...



DD has better COA feats that's why he has better CoA. 

Call me when Zoro can no sell A DJ spectra from Sanji, and a gatling from Luffy with CoA alone.

Until then stfu


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## TheWiggian (Mar 28, 2015)

Dr. White vs Extravlad

Insane Law wanker vs Zoro's lover


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## Dr. White (Mar 28, 2015)

TheWiggian said:


> Dr. White vs Extravlad
> 
> Insane Law wanker vs Zoro's lover



Dr. White:
"Law has better feats and portrayal than Luffy right now, but Luffy's EOA feats will make it even."

OL:
"No man you're fucking stupid DD cut his fucking arm bro! Law isn't MC...."

Dr. White:
"Law will no doubt play a substantial role vs doflamingo because it is his fight, and he is also a SN M3 don't forget."

OL:
" But...but... Law got his arm cut off, and shot. Dofla stomped him, he's gonna sit sidelines and he's completely done after Injection Shot."

Dat Wank


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## Extravlad (Mar 28, 2015)

> DD has better COA feats that's why he has better CoA.


No he doesn't.



> Call me when Zoro can no sell A DJ spectra from Sanji, and a gatling from Luffy with CoA alone.


Are you freaking serious? Even Monet could stop a hardened gatling gun from Luffy on Punk Hazard, and she got fodderized by Zoro (who didn't even use haki by the way).
Sanji hasn't done jackshit since the timeskip, Doffy could stop the Hell Memories with 1 finger it still wouldn't mean shit considering how weak Sanji appears to be.



> Until then stfu


You should stfu because Zoro specializing in CoA gives him the benefit of doubt over Doffy who do his best to dodge Law's moves implying he is clearly NOT confident in his ability to stop the hax.

All it say is that Doffy's CoA is at best slightly better than Vergo's, because yea if Doffy had a far stronger CoA he wouldn't be so cautious of Law's powers.



> (for example saying Law vs Doffy 1v1 would be mid diff for Doffy


Pretty sure most people on OL would say the same thing, but then again OL's general consensus is wrong 90% of the time so you might be right on that one.


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## Yuki (Mar 28, 2015)

Extravlad said:


> I hate how you assume Doffy MUST have a better CoA than Zoro because he is the arc's main antagonist.
> This is such a retarded logic.
> Doffy's main strength isn't CoA, otherwise he wouldn't dodge Law's moves.
> 
> ...


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## HisMajestyMihawk (Mar 28, 2015)

handsome son of a bitch


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## Bohemian Knight (Mar 28, 2015)

Transcendent Samurai said:


> No actually I need much more than that. Armaments haki is not the by all end all. It never was and it still isn't.
> 
> With some Zoro fans it's like mastering a devil fruit automatically nullifies everything a character does because somehow devil fruits are not a legitimate way to get stronger in One Piece.



Not that I don't agree with you, but I must ask. If Luffy never ate the Gomu Gomu no mi, and emulated Garp, would he still be stronger than Zoro now?

OT: Law needs high diff for Zoro, at least


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## Etherborn (Mar 28, 2015)

Bohemian Knight said:


> Not that I don't agree with you, but I must ask. If Luffy never ate the Gomu Gomu no mi, and emulated Garp, would he still be stronger than Zoro now?



Absolutely, and Garp is a perfect example of a top tier who had no devil fruit but still shits on most other top tiers. Devil fruits don't really give you an unfair advantage in the long run. You either take time to master your devil fruit, or you take time to master something else such as rokushiki, swordsmanship, or haki proficiency. It evens out in the end. Obviously if you give one fodder a logia and give another fodder a sword, the fodder with the logia will win, but fodder are irrelevant. When you get to the higher tiers, devil fruits simply don't make as much of a difference anymore because they are only one of many ways to gain strength in the One Piece world.


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## Kaito (Mar 29, 2015)

Wave said:


> Law wins, the sheer amount of hax technique he has is off the chart.
> 
> I'd even say Law>Luffy.


This.  Law is super strong.


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## Typhon (Mar 29, 2015)

Bohemian Knight said:


> Not that I don't agree with you, but I must ask. If Luffy never ate the Gomu Gomu no mi, and emulated Garp, would he still be stronger than Zoro now?
> 
> OT: Law needs high diff for Zoro, at least



Yeah, he would. 

OT: I personally don't see why Zoro wouldn't get the Smoker treatment.


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## Extravlad (Mar 29, 2015)

> OT: I personally don't see why Zoro wouldn't get the Smoker treatment.


You are stupid.


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## Magentabeard (Mar 29, 2015)

Typhon said:


> Yeah, he would.
> 
> OT: I personally don't see why Zoro wouldn't get the Smoker treatment.



Because you don't have a brain, that's why.


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## mastergimmy (Mar 29, 2015)

In terms of all physical stats Zoro surpasses law in all aspects. Its obvious that its law's DF going for him. It really comes down to haki but honesty law's fruit shows that strong haki users still get KOed if they are not careful. I think its whether Law lands his Gamma knife or not.

Knowing Oda, he will probably make Zoro tank a gamma knife. Ill go with Zoro but can go either way

EOS Zoro>Law


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## Typhon (Mar 29, 2015)

Extravlad said:


> You are stupid.





Magentabeard said:


> Because you don't have a brain, that's why.



Doflamingo almost got his head taken off by the same combo that got Smoker. Zoro isn't dealing with anything combo'd into Scalpel no matter how much you wank him.


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## Canute87 (Mar 29, 2015)

Typhon said:


> Yeah, he would.
> 
> OT: I personally don't see why Zoro wouldn't get the Smoker treatment.



Because zoro would just cut at a distance.


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## Typhon (Mar 29, 2015)

Canute87 said:


> Because zoro would just cut at a distance.



It is not in character for Zoro to just spam long ranged cuts.


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## Canute87 (Mar 29, 2015)

Typhon said:


> It is not in character for Zoro to just spam long ranged cuts.



Even if it isn't in character  and he goes on the offensive he's going to completely demolish the rock law hid behind.


He has three swords .


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## Extravlad (Mar 29, 2015)

> Doflamingo almost got his head taken off by the same combo that got Smoker. Zoro isn't dealing with anything combo'd into Scalpel no matter how much you wank him.


Zoro has better CoA than Doffy and he can also kill Law in 1 move, so you're just assuming Law would hit him first.


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## Canute87 (Mar 29, 2015)

Extravlad said:


> Zoro has better CoA than Doffy and he can also kill Law in 1 move, so you're just assuming Law would hit him first.



Zoro has better COA than Pica.


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## LyricalMessiah (Mar 29, 2015)

Canute87 said:


> Even if it isn't in character  and he goes on the offensive he's going to completely demolish the rock law hid behind.
> 
> 
> He has three swords .



It's not important 'whether it's not in his character' because this is a hypothetical battle between two characters in which the person arguing in favor of Zoro to winning has to come up with a reasonable scenario where Zoro wins and Law loses. If someone wants to argue that Zoro will spam large slashes at Law from a distance, then that's a valid statement because there can be no excuses such as 'it's not in his character' Zoro will realize how dangerous Law is and try to spam his slashes but would eventually have to close the distance between he and Law because of how annoying his Room cutters are.


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## Typhon (Mar 29, 2015)

Canute87 said:


> Even if it isn't in character  and he goes on the offensive he's going to completely demolish the rock law hid behind.
> 
> 
> He has three swords .


Smoker broke the rock too. Still got his heart taken and Law was on the defensive most of that match.



LyricalMessiah said:


> It's not important 'whether it's not in his character' because this is a hypothetical battle between two characters in which the person arguing in favor of Zoro to winning has to come up with a reasonable scenario where Zoro wins and Law loses. If someone wants to argue that Zoro will spam large slashes at Law from a distance, then that's a valid statement because there can be no excuses such as 'it's not in his character' Zoro will realize how dangerous Law is and try to spam his slashes but would eventually have to close the distance between he and Law because of how annoying his Room cutters are.



No, there is a reason in battledome threads that we have terms like bloodlusted, IC, etc. When not stated, we assume in character. It is not in character for Zoro to spam long range slashes when he never does so on panel.


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## Canute87 (Mar 29, 2015)

Typhon said:


> Smoker broke the rock too. Still got his heart taken and Law was on the defensive most of that match.
> 
> 
> 
> No, there is a reason in battledome threads that we have terms like bloodlusted, IC, etc. When not stated, we assume in character. It is not in character for Zoro to spam long range slashes when he never does so on panel.



Smoker  broke the rock on a single point of impact.

Zoro using three swords is not going to take off only the top part of the rock.

Or is that out of character as well for zoro to not demolish an entire rock?


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## Typhon (Mar 29, 2015)

Canute87 said:


> Smoker  broke the rock on a single point of impact.
> 
> Zoro using three swords is not going to take off only the top part of the rock.
> 
> Or is that out of character as well for zoro to not demolish an entire rock?



Oh, I see where this is going. I'm not saying Law will bring up a rock wall followed by scalpel. I'm saying Law will do something to throw off Zoro, which is then followed up by Scalpel.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Mar 29, 2015)

Extravlad said:


> Zoro has better CoA than Doffy and he can also kill Law in 1 move, so you're just assuming Law would hit him first.



Zoro can kill law in 1 move now.

The wank is ever increasing.


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## LyricalMessiah (Mar 29, 2015)

Typhon said:


> Smoker broke the rock too. Still got his heart taken and Law was on the defensive most of that match.
> 
> 
> 
> No, there is a reason in battledome threads that we have terms like bloodlusted, IC, etc. When not stated, we assume in character. It is not in character for Zoro to spam long range slashes when he never does so on panel.



I am going to have Zoro use his long ranged slashes at the start of the fight against Law. What's going to stop me? You? Try to stop me from doing so, because I won't stop as it's well within my right to assume that he can use a technique that he's shown from the start of his match.

You're confused. This isn't a match dictated by the plot in the story where things go step by step. This is a hypothetical (If you understood the definition of 'hypothetical' you wouldn't be arguing here) match-up between two characters in which the fans (I am a fan) are 'speculating' how this match-up would go down through assessing the feats of both characters in objectively concluding how this match would begin and end. It's not unreasonable for me to assume that he can spam slashes at Law because it is 'my right' to. You're being unnecessarily and overly pedantic for absolutely no reason at all.  

Nope, you're mistaken. Those factors you mentioned are entirely different to the arbitrary and unreasonable rule you tried to establish in this match-up in trying to have Zoro not apply a reasonable tactic against a tricky opponent such as Law. How is it not in character for Zoro to spam large slashes? You are trying to forcibly dictate what I, someone who is free to come up with his own hypothetical scenario(s) on how this match-up would go down, by trying to act as though you're the sole arbitrator of how a match between two characters will start and go. Zoro spamming slashes at an opponent from afar after he has witnessed that his opponent is a tricky one who's fast and agile is a perfectly reasonable tactic for him to employ in his match against Law. 

Uh, just because he never does so 'on panel' (Which was never mentioned) doesn't mean I can't assume that he will employ his long ranged attacks against Law in a 'Hypothetical' match-up. See, this is the problem you have, being that you're assuming that this match is dictated solely by the plot in the story instead of it being a hypothetical match of two characters engaging in a fight with the only way to argue who'd win is to make a reasonable scenario based purely on conjecture of the winner between the two characters who have been portrayed as the strongest between each other by bringing each and every feats they've shown.


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## LyricalMessiah (Mar 29, 2015)

Extravlad said:


> Zoro has better CoA than Doffy and he can also kill Law in 1 move, so you're just assuming Law would hit him first.



Extravlad, we all know how much you admire Zoro, but try to be objective at times. I am not even trying to joke with you. Either bring evidence of Doflamingo mentioning/admitting that Zoro's Haki is superior to his, portrayal that Zoro's Haki is superior to Doflamingo's or concede that point. 

Zoro would be capable of 'cutting' Law in one move if his attack 'easily' 'connects' with an opponent of Law's caliber that is highly unlikely. Similarly, Law can also one-shot Zoro if his attack 'easily' 'connects' with Zoro that is highly unlikely. Anyone can kill anyone in one move. Akainu proved that his lethal Magma punch had almost ripped a very sick incarnation of Whitebeard's head off who was still relatively powerful even in such a state.


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## Typhon (Mar 29, 2015)

LyricalMessiah said:


> snip



So you just ignored rules I had no authority in making and typed walls of text that don't counter what I said in the least. It is not in character fro Zoro to spam long ranged attacks against tricky opponents or else he would have against Pica.


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## Canute87 (Mar 29, 2015)

Typhon said:


> Oh, I see where this is going. I'm not saying Law will bring up a rock wall followed by scalpel. I'm saying Law will do something to throw off Zoro, which is then followed up by Scalpel.



I honestly doubt Law is going to take out zoro as fast as he did smoker.


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## Typhon (Mar 29, 2015)

Canute87 said:


> I honestly doubt Law is going to take out zoro as fast as he did smoker.



Zoro probably wouldn't go down as fast as Smoker did, but I don't see why the fight wouldn't end the same. Especially when Smoker was more agile, but still got caught in Law's pace.


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## Coruscation (Mar 29, 2015)

Typhon said:
			
		

> Doflamingo almost got his head taken off by the same combo that got Smoker.



He got a scratch on his cheek while comfortably dodging a straight-up, not a combo'd, Scalpel. He showed no stress at all and he dodged it easily. If getting a scratch on his cheek means someone weaker can't deal with it then I guess Kaku throwing a knife would be impossible to dodge for Sanji and Sanji would lose his head, since you know, Luffy got a scratch on his cheek when Kaku threw a knife at him. He even showed more discomfort than Doflamingo, so yeah, Kaku would totally one-shot Sanji with a knife throw. That's your own logic at work.

_This_ is how Doflamingo deals with a tricky Shambles/Scalpel combo:



_Easily_. Completely comfortably.

Law isn't "lol, Shamble-Scalpel'ing" Zoro no matter how much you downplay him. I guess you're salty that Zoro got an absolute monster portrayal (without even using Ashura) that easily outshines Smoker or something.


----------



## Typhon (Mar 29, 2015)

Coruscation said:


> He got a scratch on his cheek while comfortably dodging a straight-up, not a combo'd, Scalpel. He showed no stress at all and he dodged it easily. If getting a scratch on his cheek means someone weaker can't deal with it then I guess Kaku throwing a knife would be impossible to dodge for Sanji and Sanji would lose his head, since you know, Luffy got a scratch on his cheek when Kaku threw a knife at him. He even showed more discomfort than Doflamingo, so yeah, Kaku would totally one-shot Sanji with a knife throw. That's your own logic at work.
> 
> _This_ is how Doflamingo deals with a tricky Shambles/Scalpel combo:
> 
> ...





Typhon said:


> Zoro probably wouldn't go down as fast as Smoker did, but I don't see why the fight wouldn't end the same. Especially when Smoker was more agile, but still got caught in Law's pace.



I will take back what I said about Doflamingo, but considering he's much stronger then Zoro, the point still stands.


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## Coruscation (Mar 29, 2015)

Law nailing Zoro with some type of Shambles to hax move combo is certainly not out of the question, but this statement:



			
				Typhon said:
			
		

> Zoro isn't dealing with anything combo'd into Scalpel no matter how much you wank him.



is just plain biased. Zoro is not _incapable_ of dealing with Scalpel combos. Zoro is not going to drop to Law like a sack of potatoes which a statement of this nature implied. As long as you take that back, I'm good.


----------



## Canute87 (Mar 29, 2015)

Typhon said:


> Zoro probably wouldn't go down as fast as Smoker did, but I don't see why the fight wouldn't end the same. Especially when Smoker was more agile, but still got caught in Law's pace.



Smoker getting caught in law's pace had nothing to do with his agility though.  It happened because of limited skill sets law was able to completely hide himself behind the rock and do whatever.  

This happened because smoker's offensive is rather shit.

Against someone with strength comparable if not greater than smoker and attacks without a shadow of a doubt more stronger and deadly,  law is going to have far more significant issues getting zoro in a position to take him out especially due to the fact that Zoro is a heavier hitter.

So law has his work cut out for him.

This however essentially turns into a quick match if Zoro and Law decides on a head on clash to which I see law winning. 

Mountain cut > than Golem Cut IMO.


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## LyricalMessiah (Mar 29, 2015)

Typhon said:


> SNIP



You're ignoring that this is a hypothetical scenario.

I never wrote wall of texts. You need to understand the words you use in a sentence before using them completely out of context. 

You know what, man, you need to stop unnecessarily having arguments with others and to later subtly notify to them that you've conceded to their points without even making an effort in your attempts at engaging them in a civil discussion from the beginning and to the end by taking unnecessary jibes at them. Also, it's not a written rule that Zoro will never begin his fight with someone with a flying slash... not that it matters anyways. We may see Zoro start his fight with someone by using a flying slash from the get-go of his fight. The only way we can say that Zoro won't use his flying slashes against someone is if he has mentioned in the Manga that he won't use any 'slashes' against certain opponents whether it be from the start of the match or at any point  during the match.

I did counter your points. I did mention how it's a hypothetical "Match-up" between two characters in the One piece Manga who've yet to fight against one another and that it is thus  entirely my right to make a reasonable and objective scenario on how this match between two characters who've yet to fight one another will start and end by factoring in all of their 'feats' they've shown on panel and make them exploitable for the character in a consistently hypothetical scenario. Therefore, I am allowed and obligated to reflect the outcome of their fight based on what they've shown in the Manga by assessing the feats they've shown, their portrayal and overall capabilities in objectively concluding who'd win. 

If you won't have Zoro start off using flying slashes, a feat he has shown in the manga' in your hypothetical scenario, then that is your opinion.


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## Kaiser (Mar 29, 2015)

It depends on fights. If Zoro feels the need to use long range slashes i don't see why he won't. It's like against Braham or Ohm where he was in a situation where he realised long range slashes could give him the win and just did it


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## LyricalMessiah (Mar 29, 2015)

Typhon said:


> It is not in character fro Zoro to spam long ranged attacks against tricky opponents or else he would have against Pica.




It was never mentioned that it is not in character for him to use a flying slash against his opponent(s) at the start of a fight.

 Also, just because it is 'not in character' doesn't mean I can't have Zoro employ his long range slashes in a  hypothetical scenario in which he will be engaging Law in a fight. It is my right to assume the moves he will use against a certain opponent in a match based on a hypothetical scenario as long as I consistently portray both of their overall capabilities as per what the Manga had portrayed of their strength. This is a Non-sequitur fallacy. Zoro's fight against Pica was a battle dictated by the plot in the story by Oda himself and isn't a hypothetical match that fans need to assume who'd win. Therefore, I can have Zoro start off using flying slashes against Law. Just because he never used it against Pica doesn't mean that it proves he'll never begin his fights with flying slashes.

In his fight against Pica, he was a bit on the defensive at the start of his fight against Pica as Pica was manipulating the below ground to form spikes of rocks below the ground in the direction of Zoro. Zoro was cutting those spikes and attempted to attack Pica who kept on distancing himself and hiding away from Zoro. It's not until Zoro realized that Pica was unreachable when he resorts to his usual 'hide and seek' habits that he'd need to use a 'long range' slash against him.


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## Extravlad (Mar 29, 2015)

> Either bring evidence of Doflamingo mentioning/admitting that Zoro's Haki is superior to his, portrayal that Zoro's Haki is superior to Doflamingo's or concede that point.


Doffy keep doging most attack that are thrown at him, he has absolutely no CoA feats so far.
It's more than safe to assume that someone who specialize in CoA and was trained by a Yonko lvl fighter who also seem to specialize in CoA would've have the upperhand in that regard.

Unless you wanna believe Doffy is so much stronger than Zoro that he must be superior at everything which I don't believe.


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## Typhon (Mar 29, 2015)

Coruscation said:


> Law nailing Zoro with some type of Shambles to hax move combo is certainly not out of the question, but this statement:
> 
> 
> 
> is just plain biased. Zoro is not _incapable_ of dealing with Scalpel combos. Zoro is not going to drop to Law like a sack of potatoes which a statement of this nature implied. As long as you take that back, I'm good.


I never believed Law would just lol combo Zoro from the beginning. It would be a long drawn out fight, but in the end, he will fall prey to one of the most broken abilities this manga has shown.



Canute87 said:


> Smoker getting caught in law's pace had nothing to do with his agility though.  It happened because of limited skill sets law was able to completely hide himself behind the rock and do whatever.
> 
> This happened because smoker's offensive is rather shit.
> 
> ...


Law was holding his own against Doflamingo just fine. I have no doubts he could take an assault from Zoro and eventually set up a combo. I also agree that if it was a head on collision, Law would come out on top.



LyricalMessiah said:


> You're ignoring that this is a hypothetical scenario.


I fully realize this is a hypothetical situation. What I don't think you realize is that even hypotheticals have them fight as if they were to fight in the manga. Luffy isn't about to start any fight with Elephant Gatling Gun and Ace isn't gonna start any fight with Entei unless bloodlusted. And they definitely aren't gonna just use those moves over and over again. (I know EGG is a rapid move)

It is not in character for Zoro to start a fight by spamming long range moves, especially against someone like Law who will fight in CQC as well.


> I never wrote wall of texts. You need to understand the words you use in a sentence before using them completely out of context.


You write paragraphs (walls of text) to simple answers as if it was warranted for you to do so. No one feels like responding to 3 paragraphs that pertain to the same exact thing. 


> You know what, man, you need to stop unnecessarily having arguments with others and to later subtly notify to them that you've conceded to their points without even making an effort in your attempts at engaging them in a civil discussion from the beginning and to the end by taking unnecessary jibes at them. Also, it's not a written rule that Zoro will never begin his fight with someone with a flying slash... not that it matters anyways. We may see Zoro start his fight with someone by using a flying slash from the get-go of his fight. The only way we can say that Zoro won't use his flying slashes against someone is if he has mentioned in the Manga that he won't use any 'slashes' against certain opponents whether it be from the start of the match or at any point in during the match.


And you need to stop typing substantial amounts of text that have nothing to do with what the original argument was while throwing snide little comments in there to insult the other's intelligence.


> I did counter your points. I did mention how it's a hypothetical "Match-up" between two characters in the One piece Manga who've yet to go out against one another and that it is thus  entirely my right to make a reasonable and objective scenario on how this match between two characters who've yet to fight one another will start and end by factoring in all of their 'feats' they've shown on panel and make them exploitable for the character in a consistently hypothetical scenario. Therefore, I am allowed and obligated to reflect the outcome of their fight based on what they've shown in the Manga by assessing the feats they've shown, their portrayal and overall capabilities in objectively concluding who'd win.



Really? This is what I said in response to you trying to explain why in character doesn't matter here:

"No, there is a reason we use terms in battle dome threads such as bloodlusted, IC, etc. When not stated, we assume in character. It is not in character for Zoro to spam long range slashes when he never does so on panel."

You never actually tried to counter that, which is why I responded with something simple. 

You pretty much said it is my right to believe Zoro would spam large slashes against a tricky opponent like Law since it is a hypothetical, which has nothing to do with what I said.


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## Freechoice (Mar 29, 2015)

Law isn't the type of fighter that has drawn out fights, no matter the opponent. His DF just doesn't work like that.

He either goes down or takes out the opponent within a relatively short amount of time.


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## Canute87 (Mar 29, 2015)

Typhon said:


> I never believed Law would just lol combo Zoro from the beginning. It would be a long drawn out fight, but in the end, he will fall prey to one of the most broken abilities this manga has shown.
> 
> 
> Law was holding his own against Doflamingo just fine. I have no doubts he could take an assault from Zoro and eventually set up a combo. I also agree that if it was a head on collision, Law would come out on top.d.



Law was holding his own but he  was being pushed back.

Similar with smoker as well,  same thing is going to happen with zoro


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## LyricalMessiah (Mar 29, 2015)

Extravlad said:


> Doffy keep doging most attack that are thrown at him, he has absolutely no CoA feats so far.
> It's more than safe to assume that someone who specialize in CoA and was trained by a Yonko lvl fighter who also seem to specialize in CoA would've have the upperhand in that regard.
> 
> Unless you wanna believe Doffy is so much stronger than Zoro that he must be superior at everything which I don't believe.



Can you cobble up a list of each and every attack Doflamingo has dodged? You do realize that the attacks he dodged were perhaps lethal in that they can cause damage to someone but does in no way imply that Doflamingo's Haki is inadequate in protecting him from Law's attacks, right? You're jumping to false conclusions to cater to your unreasonable point that Zoro, the character who you've shown to be bias in favor of on multiple occasions, has superior Haki to Doflamingo's. It's better to dodge than to tank an attack from an opponent whose attacks in conjunction with their haki are lethal with your own Haki when the possibility of sustaining some damage is likely.   

Guess what, Luffy was trained under Rayleigh's tutelage, who was the former  First mate of the Pirate king, most likely the former World's strongest swordsmen, stalemated Kizaru and is still amongst the strongest in the World further evidenced by Garp calling him a 'Legend' that the Marines wouldn't be able to handle with ease and yet Luffy's Haki hasn't been all that impressive. Rayleigh's mastery and experience over Haki should be, at best, as good as Mihawk's or even better due to his experience and thus should reflect on his amazing knowledge of Haki in being a brilliant teacher to anyone willing to learn Haki similar to Mihawk.

 Therefore, both the teachers that Zoro and Luffy learned Haki, whose level of strength seem to be on par with one another, from shouldn't have an impact as to differentiating the level at which their CoA compares to one another except for their inherently natural talent with CoA that Zoro seems to possess and have an advantage over Luffy  unlike Luffy as evidenced by Oda mentioning it in the SBS.  The difference in both of their level of CoA between Luffy and Zoro shouldn't be staggering. 

Doflamingo's Haki is superior to Law's as he managed to overpower Law's amazing Haki, managed to grab the sharp edge of his sword with minimum damage, effortlessly tanked Sanji's Diable Jambe, Diable Jambe spectrum, and Luffy's jet gatling. 


The only thing Zoro may seem to possess over Doflamingo is perhaps AoE.

Zoro's Haki is > Pica's. 

Doflamingo's Haki at this point in time seems to be > Zoro > Pica.


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## Ruse (Mar 29, 2015)

Extravlad said:


> Doffy keep doging most attack that are thrown at him, *he has absolutely no CoA feats so far.*
> It's more than safe to assume that someone who specialize in CoA and was trained by a Yonko lvl fighter who also seem to specialize in CoA would've have the upperhand in that regard.
> 
> Unless you wanna believe Doffy is so much stronger than Zoro that he must be superior at everything which I don't believe.




*Spoiler*: __ 








*Spoiler*: __ 









Inb4 Zoro would replicate those in his sleep


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## Extravlad (Mar 29, 2015)

You know that even Monet could stop Luffy's hardened gatling gun right?
It's really no big deal.
Especially when you consider that Luffy's CoA is trash and couldn't protect him from Bellamy's punches and Hody's bite.

@LyricalMessiah I see where you're coming from, but I disagree on Luffy and Zoro having similar lvl of CoA.

Luffy's CoA has been shown to be shit so far, he couldn't break Monet's snow wall, dealt absolutely no damage to Chinjao until he used G3 and couldn't even take down the likes of Caesar/Hody w/o g3 as well.
Even his defensive CoA is trash, Bellamy and Hody both managed to get through it.
Meanwhile the only CoA feats from Zoro are extremely impressive.

Zoro's CoA is stronger than Pica's, it's safe to assume that Pica's CoA is on the same lvl as Vergo.

Luffy's Coa? We've got no evidence that it's even stronger than Chinjao's.


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## Canute87 (Mar 29, 2015)

Extravlad said:


> You know that even Monet could stop Luffy's hardened gatling gun right?
> It's really no big deal.
> Especially when you consider that Luffy's CoA is trash and couldn't protect him from Bellamy's punches and Hody's bite.
> 
> ...



What COA  feats does Pica have?


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## ShadoLord (Mar 29, 2015)

Vergo's CoA should be stronger than Pica's, he specialize in haki and been seen using hardening throughout the punk hazard arc.


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## LyricalMessiah (Mar 29, 2015)

> I fully realize this is a hypothetical situation. What I don't think you realize is that even hypotheticals have them fight as if they were to fight in the manga. Luffy isn't about to start any fight with Elephant Gatling Gun and Ace isn't gonna start any fight with Entei unless bloodlusted. And they definitely aren't gonna just use those moves over and over again. (I know EGG is a rapid move)
> 
> It is not in character for Zoro to start a fight by spamming long range moves, especially against someone like Law who will fight in CQC as well.
> 
> ...



Basically, you are saying that your opinion of how a match will begin and end is the only one that stands when disregarding the term 'hypothetical' by trying to establish a rule that characters need to use their weaker moves and gradually use their strongest once the duration of their fight progresses. 

 You are trying to dictate the logistics of a hypothetical match between two characters who've never fought or fought by unnecessarily assuming to being the sole arbitrator of how a match will begin and end in a rather pretentious and arrogant manner in addition to completely disregarding the term 'hypothetical' when you assume that a match will go as the Manga shows to portray how fights begin and end that has a certain pattern of showing how a fight will begin and end exclusive to plot circumstances in the story only because it leads to the progression of the story whilst hypothetical matches do not. If Luffy has shown the ability to use certain moves he has shown in the Manga, or any characters for that matter, I or anyone else for that matter, am allowed to have him start off using his strongest attack in a hypothetical fighting scenario. 

The one who needs to come up with better rebuttals than the lofty and illogical "But that's not how they begin fighting!!" is you by having the character who you favor to win against Luffy try to counter the attacks/arguments that the other person who is in favor of Luffy to win has made who has hypothetically been arguing why Luffy is winning in a consistent and logical manner whilst regarding factors such as feats, portrayal and overall capabilities portrayed in the manga.

You never realized that this was a hypothetical scenario if you are being really stubborn as to not understand that in a hypothetical scenario, the person who is arguing in favor of a certain character to beat another character is allowed to come up with their own hypothetical scenario as the match between two characters who've never fought in the manga is based on in giving their suggestion on who'd win by accurately portraying each of the contestants' strength, abilities as per what the Manga had portrayed of their strength. Zoro has shown the ability to use flying slashes in the manga, an ability he is free to utilize at any point in time during a match as it was never mentioned either by Oda or Zoro himself that he is limited to using his flying slashes at a later stage during a match. The one who is purposely being obscure and ignorant of this simple fact is you in order to cater to your own bias and irrelevant view of the logistics in a match.


Those texts I wrote earlier in response to your posts were not wall of texts. You're detracting away from the main point when making unnecessary remarks. I was responding to your posts through and through. You simply are accusing me of 'writing' a lot whilst ignoring that my posts contain information on why you're wrong to say what you said. 



> And you need to stop typing substantial amounts of text that have nothing to do with what the original argument was while throwing snide little comments in there to insult the other's intelligence.





> And you need to stop typing substantial amounts of text that have nothing to do with what the original argument was while throwing snide little comments in there to insult the other's intelligence.



This is a Straw-man. I never made a single remark at your intelligence nor have I insulted you in any way whatsoever. You are pretentious and dishonest in your misinformed accusations towards me by making up lies that I somehow 'insulted' You need to have better understanding of the words you use in your posts in response to my own posts because your post(s) come off as highly unreasonable and impossible to respond to when your accusations are based on mostly lies. In other words, don't just look up words in the dictionary and use them when you have a chance to engage in a debate with someone

Really, Typhon? Why are you being this dishonest when you try to discredit the value of my post by completely ignoring the message of that specific post of mine all the whilst making up Straw-mans? I said that, in a hypothetical match-up, I am free to have the character who I favor to win against the other use whichever move they've shown to be able to use at whichever time because it is match based on a 'hypothetical' scenario completely free of the restrictions of 'plot and story' scenarios we see during fights as the point of a hypothetical scenario is to make a reasonable scenario of the character who you  favor of winning against the other by consistently portraying both the level of strength, feats of both characters in concluding on the victor. The only way you can assume that a certain character cannot employ a tactic/move at the start of a battle against another person or at whichever time during a battle is if they themselves have made mention that they don't make use of a certain ability at specific times during a battle.



> "No, there is a reason we use terms in battle dome threads such as bloodlusted, IC, etc. When not stated, we assume in character. It is not in character for Zoro to spam long range slashes when he never does so on panel."



You only mentioned two scenarios and the blatant attempt at disguising the fact that there aren't a lot of terms to support your little fanfiction is flawed. Terms such as "Bloodlusted'' differs from the 'autocratic' like rule you've made that is in contradiction with the term 'hypothetical' Bloodlusted means that the characters are very angry which doesn't really have much bearing on determining the total outcome of a match between two characters besides their feats, portrayals, and overall capabilities that are the only means through which you can argue why a certain character beats the other. In other words, it just means that the characters are very angry and nothing else.


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## LyricalMessiah (Mar 29, 2015)

Extravlad said:


> You know that even Monet could stop Luffy's hardened gatling gun right?
> It's really no big deal.
> Especially when you consider that Luffy's CoA is trash and couldn't protect him from Bellamy's punches and Hody's bite.
> 
> ...



I never said they had a similar level of CoA. I said that Luffy's CoA is a bit inferior to Zoro's natural talent with CoA to the point the difference isn't staggering or to portray Zoro as the strongest between the two.


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## Extravlad (Mar 29, 2015)

Well going by feats Zoro's CoA looks far superior to Luffy's.
But then again, if you look at feats Luffy looks shit compared to Zoro.
And that's not me being a Zoro fan, just objectively Luffy couldn't take out Monet using hardened CoA whereas Zoro did it w/o even using haki.

Same apply to Hyouzou blocking Luffy's jet pistol and being called strong just to get taken out in 1 move by Zoro despite having taken drugs to become stronger.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Mar 29, 2015)

Coruscation said:


> He got a scratch on his cheek while comfortably dodging a straight-up, not a combo'd, Scalpel. He showed no stress at all and he dodged it easily. If getting a scratch on his cheek means someone weaker can't deal with it then I guess Kaku throwing a knife would be impossible to dodge for Sanji and Sanji would lose his head, since you know, Luffy got a scratch on his cheek when Kaku threw a knife at him. He even showed more discomfort than Doflamingo, so yeah, Kaku would totally one-shot Sanji with a knife throw. That's your own logic at work.
> 
> _This_ is how Doflamingo deals with a tricky Shambles/Scalpel combo:
> 
> ...



I don't  see nothing in this post that proves Law can't shambles+Mes combo Zoro.


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## HisMajestyMihawk (Mar 29, 2015)

Wave said:


> Pica's CoA should be stronger than Vergo's, he specialize in haki and been seen using hardening throughout the dress rosa arc.



fixed for you


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## Oberyn Nymeros (Mar 29, 2015)

Law takes it. The guy got his arm chopped off and still stood up against Dofla and Trebol without ever dropping that mountain sized room. why should Zoro be able to win?


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## HisMajestyMihawk (Mar 29, 2015)

Oberyn Nymeros said:


> Law takes it. The guy got his arm chopped off and still stood up against Dofla and Trebol without ever dropping that mountain sized room. why should Zoro be able to win?



that mountain sized room was a complete asspull and Law would not have sufficient plot armor to do the same thing against Zoro

also just because the room is big doesn't mean its useful. It doesn't change the fact that 1 hit from Zoro would destroy his paper-thin defense

I think we all need to face reality at some point. Law simply doesn't have any way of hurting Zoro who has superior speed, strength, endurance, and haki.


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## Etherborn (Mar 29, 2015)

HisMajestyMihawk said:


> fixed for you



If you're going to quote someone and switch their words around, at least have it make sense. Come on man, Pica used hardening once in the Dressrosa arc and by no means was he shown to specialize in it. The original post didn't need fixing.



HisMajestyMihawk said:


> That mountain sized room was a feat and calling it an asspull or plot armor doesn't change the fact that he could do the same thing against Zoro.
> 
> Also the bigger his room is, the longer his the range of his spatial manipulation. Zoro is going to have a lot of trouble landing even 1 hit with Law freely teleporting around the battlefield.
> 
> I think we all need to face reality at some point. Law has both the haki feats and the devil fruit mastery to put Zoro down, and the fact that his base stats are actually comparable just tips the scale even further in Law's favor.



And that's how it's done. Tell me, how does it feel to look back at your quote and feel smart?


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## Dr. White (Mar 29, 2015)

Lol at zoro being faster than Law.

Also people are forgetting that one non hardened (plain COA) kick fractured Sanji's leg, yet Law took that same kick, a punch, an elbow, and a staff blow all to his face.


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## Firo (Mar 29, 2015)

Extravlad said:


> Well going by feats Zoro's CoA looks far superior to Luffy's.
> But then again, if you look at feats Luffy looks shit compared to Zoro.
> And that's not me being a Zoro fan, just objectively Luffy couldn't take out Monet using hardened CoA whereas Zoro did it w/o even using haki.
> 
> Same apply to Hyouzou blocking Luffy's jet pistol and being called strong just to get taken out in 1 move by Zoro despite having taken drugs to become stronger.



What about Tashigi blocking a Zoro slash on PH when Law completely embarrassed her?
Seriously tho, I dont see why Law using SHambles and then Mes similar to what he did to Doffy cant work here. Also, In terms of COA feats. Law > Zoro in that regard too.


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## ShadoLord (Mar 29, 2015)

Shambles+Mes should only work on Zoro only if he's caught off-guard. 

or if Zoro doesn't have knowledge about it, then maybe he might lose just like smoker.


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## Firo (Mar 29, 2015)

Wave said:


> Shambles+Mes should only work on Zoro only if he's caught off-guard.
> 
> or if Zoro doesn't have knowledge about it, then maybe he might lose just like smoker.



He can literally throw shit at him to distract  him before connecting.


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## HisMajestyMihawk (Mar 29, 2015)

Law's room was an asspull, literally nobody on the island noticed it. He could have 1 shot Pica's golem seeing as it was inside, but instead he chose to lie on the ground and get shot at by Doflamingo

Luffy also survived all 3 admirals at marineford + fought against sengoku and garp

We all know that's an asspull. Your arguement is basically saying that 

Luffy is already PK level because his asspull allowed him to fight 5 top tiers in the same arc and emerge relatively unharmed.


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## Coruscation (Mar 29, 2015)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> I don't  see nothing in this post that proves Law can't shambles+Mes combo Zoro.



If you need "proof" that Law can't drop Zoro like a sack of potatoes with a simple combo whenever he wants to then we have nothing to talk about. Go troll someone else.


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## HisMajestyMihawk (Mar 29, 2015)

^without his Room Law is basically Tashigi-tier

Smoker casually picked him up and ragdolled him into the ground.

There is absolutely no proof that Zoro couldn't 1shot him with a basic sword slash


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## Oberyn Nymeros (Mar 29, 2015)

HisMajestyMihawk said:


> also just because the room is big doesn't mean its useful.


do you think that Law can pull out the cutting power he used against Vergo with only a standard sized room then? That doesnt jive with Law cutting up the mountain despite being the type to conserve stamina, but that actually puts a point in Laws favor.


> It doesn't change the fact that 1 hit from Zoro would destroy his paper-thin defense


it depends on the hit really. and Law is plenty durable with great endurance. 


> I think we all need to face reality at some point. Law simply doesn't have any way of hurting Zoro who has superior speed, strength, endurance, and haki.


strength and endurance sure, but why should we give him haki and speed?


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## Firo (Mar 29, 2015)

Sure Zoro maybe able to fend off the Shambles Mes combo. But lets not act like Law uses it in just simple situations. He used in to go for the win vs DOfla. That speaks volumes. Also, because Doffy reacted to it, that doesnt say shit about Zoro doing the same. Just saying.


----------



## Firo (Mar 29, 2015)

HisMajestyMihawk said:


> ^without his Room Law is basically Tashigi-tier
> 
> Smoker casually picked him up and ragdolled him into the ground.


Panels 



> There is absolutely no proof that Zoro couldn't 1shot him with a basic sword slash



Law tanked attacks from Dofla. SHit doesnt even compare


----------



## ShadoLord (Mar 29, 2015)

Firo said:


> He can literally throw shit at him to distract  him before connecting.



Why the heck would Zoro be distracted by that? Not to mention he is powerful at cqc and won't be giving Law any chance to make finger movement to throw that somehting at him, which is useless even if he did because unlike Smoker, Zoro can cut up everything.


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## Canute87 (Mar 29, 2015)

HisMajestyMihawk said:


> ^without his Room Law is basically Tashigi-tier
> 
> Smoker casually picked him up and ragdolled him into the ground.
> 
> There is absolutely no proof that Zoro couldn't 1shot him with a basic sword slash




Smoker dissipated himself to end up behind law. 

Zoro cannot go that.


----------



## Firo (Mar 29, 2015)

Wave said:


> Why the heck would Zoro be distracted by that? Not to mention he is powerful at cqc and won't be giving Law any chance to make finger movement to throw that somehting at him, which is useless even if he did because unlike Smoker, Zoro can cut up everything.



Its not like Zoro is just gonna flat out win a CQC exchange. Dude has tangoed with DOffy in that same category. Not being distracted by several  projectiles flying in your direction?  Especially those with decent size?


----------



## Canute87 (Mar 29, 2015)

Dr. White said:


> Lol at zoro being faster than Law.
> 
> Also people are forgetting that one non hardened (plain COA) kick fractured Sanji's leg, yet Law took that same kick, a punch, an elbow, and a staff blow all to his face.



Or Vergo wasn't kicking him as hard as he did Sanji.


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## Kaiser (Mar 29, 2015)

Oberyn Nymeros said:


> Law takes it. The guy got his arm chopped off and still stood up against Dofla and Trebol without ever dropping that mountain sized room. why should Zoro be able to win?


He was using his life force to produce that room


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## Dr. White (Mar 29, 2015)

Kaiser said:


> He was using his life force to produce that room


Because of how much energy he already used this arc combined....


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## Dr. White (Mar 29, 2015)

Canute87 said:


> Or Vergo wasn't kicking him as hard as he did Sanji.



What? Vergo came out of Soru with the kick that hit law, which was much faster than the no named dash he came at Sanji with. Second off Vergo was clearly acting more BL vs Law and saw Sanji as little more than a hindrance. You really gonna tell me his Soru Kick, and 3 Armament attacks were held punches on vergo's end? Are you gonna claim off kicks from Vergo are harder than actual Armament attacks from Vergo?

Cause that be real suspect.


----------



## HisMajestyMihawk (Mar 29, 2015)

Dr. White said:


> What? Vergo came out of Soru with the kick that hit law, which was much faster than the no named dash he came at Sanji with. Second off Vergo was clearly acting more BL vs Law and saw Sanji as little more than a hindrance. You really gonna tell me his Soru Kick, and 3 Armament attacks were held punches on vergo's end? Are you gonna claim off kicks from Vergo are harder than actual Armament attacks from Vergo?
> 
> Cause that be real suspect.



I'll give you that Law has comparable if not better durability feats than Sanji

But then again post-TS Sanji has been a massive disappointment, probably the 2nd biggest after Dimamante


----------



## Kaiser (Mar 29, 2015)

Tashigi also took some haki imbued attacks to the head and i doubt she has better durability than Sanji, so i do think it's possible he didn't hit with the same physical strength, which could also explain why Sanji could block the rest of his kicks later



Dr. White said:


> Because of how much energy he already used this arc combined....


Maybe but he did say to Luffy that the run to the palace made him conserve his energy


----------



## HisMajestyMihawk (Mar 29, 2015)

Canute87 said:


> Smoker dissipated himself to end up behind law.
> 
> Zoro cannot go that.



he doesnt need to dissipate to blitz

see Zoro vs Kuma

that was Pre-skip Zoro


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## HisMajestyMihawk (Mar 29, 2015)

Kaiser said:


> Tashigi also took some haki imbued attacks to the head and i doubt she has better durability than Sanji, so i do think it's possible he didn't hit with the same physical strength, which could also explain why Sanji could block the rest of his kicks later
> 
> Maybe but he did say to Luffy that the run to the palace made him conserve his energy



makes me wonder why that clown didnt use all of his stamina at the beginning of the fight to just finish Doflamingo off

Instead of using shitty moves like "injection shot" which literally did nothing


----------



## Oberyn Nymeros (Mar 29, 2015)

Kaiser said:


> He was using his life force to produce that room


what does that have to do with the fight?


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## Kaiser (Mar 29, 2015)

Oberyn Nymeros said:


> what does that have to do with the fight?


Nothing. It was just to correct your statement concerning Law's stamina by saying it wasn't a matter of stamina from that point anymore since he was using his life force to create the room instead


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## HisMajestyMihawk (Mar 29, 2015)

Dr. White said:


> Luffy carrying him there allowed him to "regain some mana" if you will. If Law had 5% after being beat up by doffy, Luffy carrying him may have brought him to 25%. But Law's pool was still heavily depleted, he wouldn't even one shot a fighting fish in the beginning of the arc because of not wanting to waste stamina, you know before he fought Fuji/Dofla. Plus Law was injured to boot.



Law's entire portrayal is full of inconsistencies

Like your example of Law refusing to 1shot a fish because he was saving every penny of stamina. Another example is where he ran out of stamina during his fight on the bridge with Doflamingo, to the point where he couldn't even make a room big enough to fit himself in.

Then this chapter he pulls the PIS of a mountain-sized room, which coincidentally nobody in the entire fucking country saw. Also he was able to sustain this for quite a while, despite being 99% dead.

If we had to make a real life comparison, Law is the guy who refuses to buy gas, because he is saving up every penny to buy a lambo he can't afford to drive


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## Oberyn Nymeros (Mar 29, 2015)

Kaiser said:


> Nothing. It was just to correct your statement concerning Law's stamina by saying it wasn't a matter of stamina from that point anymore since he was using his life force to create the room instead


that's not actually a point that I made.


----------



## ShadoLord (Mar 29, 2015)

Firo said:


> Its not like Zoro is just gonna flat out win a CQC exchange. Dude has tangoed with DOffy in that same category. Not being distracted by several  projectiles flying in your direction?  Especially those with decent size?


I'm not saying Zoro will win, in fact I'm on Law's side that he's winning. But I don't see how those thing thrown at Zoro would cause him to go off-guard or how a simple shambles+mes will take out Zoro.


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## Dr. White (Mar 29, 2015)

HisMajestyMihawk said:


> Law's entire portrayal is full of inconsistencies


Not really.



> Like your example of Law refusing to 1shot a fish because he was saving every penny of stamina.


He didn't want to kill the fish because he wanted to save evwery ounce to fight Doflamingo. Which he ended up needing + some especially after he fought Fuji + Doffy.



> Another example is where he ran out of stamina during his fight on the bridge with Doflamingo, to the point where he couldn't even make a room big enough to fit himself in.


Anime only bud 



> Then this chapter he pulls the PIS of a mountain-sized room, which coincidentally nobody in the entire fucking country saw. Also he was able to sustain this for quite a while, despite being 99% dead.


It's called being a beast. Luffy has done similar shit (cough cough Lucci, Cough cough Enel) and the same with zoro (cough cough Mr. 1, cough cough TB sacrifice) and that shit was pre skip. This is Law's biggest dream, and he's a post skip Supernova bud.



> If we had to make a real life comparison, Law is the guy who refuses to buy gas, because he is saving up every penny to buy a lambo he can't afford to drive


Nah Law's a doctor so you know he's ballin either way. But it's very clear he has a very large stamina bank. I put it like this:
Most current M3 level fighters should be able to fight 3-5 days vs someone on their level like ace/Jinbei if need be. Law has similar stamina to them but his moves take more stamina, so he can go a whole day abusing Ope Ope in comparison.


----------



## HisMajestyMihawk (Mar 29, 2015)

Dr. White said:


> He didn't want to kill the fish because he wanted to save evwery ounce to fight Doflamingo. Which he ended up needing + some especially after he fought Fuji + Doffy.



Again, inconsistent.

It would take such a small fraction of Law's power to kill a fish that it's literally immaterial. That's like Luffy refusing to punch a fodder because he is saving every ounce of energy to fight the arc boss.

Law was on the brink of death 3 times this arc. Despite being in by far the worst shape during the third time, he was able to:

1) swap bodies with a 2-armed fodder, point blank, and Doflamingo didnt notice
2) maintain a mountain-sized room which coincidentally nobody in the country seems to notice

Inconsistencies my friend

If i didnt know any better I'd say that Kubo wrote chapter 781


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## Canute87 (Mar 29, 2015)

Dr. White said:


> What? Vergo came out of Soru with the kick that hit law, which was much faster than the no named dash he came at Sanji with. Second off Vergo was clearly acting more BL vs Law and saw Sanji as little more than a hindrance. You really gonna tell me his Soru Kick, and 3 Armament attacks were held punches on vergo's end? Are you gonna claim off kicks from Vergo are harder than actual Armament attacks from Vergo?
> 
> Cause that be real suspect.



People can kick hard without soru movement. 
Not that soru movement should affect much of anything it's quick movement it doesn't augment............anything.

Why would they not be withheld?  He slapped tashigi with a hardened fist and her jaw wasn't broken or anything.

He also had law's heart  playing with it, which essentially shows he had no intention at the time of killing him which what a fractured skull would have done. 
Vergo did not crack Sanji's leg because of simply collateral, he cracked his leg simply because he wanted to.

Not crushing law's heart killing him on spot means he had no real intention of causing critical injury which is what a fractured skull would have done from my understanding of bones.


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Mar 29, 2015)

Canute87 said:


> Or Vergo wasn't kicking him as hard as he did Sanji.


----------



## Dr. White (Mar 29, 2015)

Canute87 said:


> Soru movement doesn't. It is one explosive point of the feet.  It doesn't makes his legs go faster which is what should make the kick more powerful.
> 
> There's a difference between Gear 2 and Soru.


No. This is so wrong.
There is no difference between Luffy's speed augmenting his attacks and that of a Soru user. That's stupid. As long as the body as built up momentum from acceleration it's going to do more damage. Hence why a superman punch builds more force than a regular jab. 

Hakuba shows this same thing being able to 1 shot dellinger, same with Kizaru, and everyother character who does this.

Vergo is a huge mass of muscle and Haki, of course him dashing at you at hypersonic + speeds is going to increase his output.d

As for the whole leg argument that is stupid. Why would propelling his body extrmely fast, and jumping into the air for a jump kick not add to his strength? That's the point of a jump kick.....Soru is just kicking off the ground a shit ton of times real quick.






> She had some bruises and bleed like any ususal attack.
> She was quite fine afterwards even went on to fight monet...with help


.
In that instance she was KO'd. Just like Smoker got KO'd but was relatively ok afterwards too.





> Same way he doesn't need to crack skulls to torture him.  Since when do you need to crack anything to hurt someone?  Come on man.


Dude Vergo doesn't selectively freaking crack opponents legs. He just hits them with varying general levels of hardness like any fighter. Hence why Sanji was able to deflect kicks immediatly after he got his leg cracked, he compensated for Vergo's ability.





> Vergo uses armament  in every single one of his encounters.
> 
> You write off the sanji one because you didn't see it coloured black.  That is simple inconsistency to me when I've seen him use it in every single other encounter.


Regular invisi Haki is not the same as basic Haki. Otherwise there is no point for Oda to ever highlight it as colored. 




> I mean  to each his own  but  you can't expect me to change my mind,  when things clearly don't add up.


Dude the evidence is clear as day. Like a regular punch from Luffy is not the same has a hardened punch from Luffy, the gatling Monet blocked is not the same one doflamingo dodged. 

There is absolutel zero evdience for you to think Vergo pulled his punches on his attacks vs Law, and then went extra super hard for Sanji, who he didn't view as a threat, or even know. Like that's just hogwash.

But to each his own


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## Canute87 (Mar 29, 2015)

Dr. White said:


> No. This is so wrong.
> There is no difference between Luffy's speed augmenting his attacks and that of a Soru user. That's stupid. As long as the body as built up momentum from acceleration it's going to do more damage. Hence why a superman punch builds more force than a regular jab.


Luffy explained the acceleration.  He did soru by doing the same thing every other soru user did to get that speed.  However the jet attacks are the result of his body entering some strange kind of state you know the smoker.
This strange state enabled him to use soru as hell as ridiculously fast get paced attacks.

Powerful kicks and powerful punches have different mechanisms.  Punches are straight forward so straight forward speed is going to have some effect i don't know much,  luffy had his DF to help him with that gain in speed.  Power kicks on the other foot are based on whip like movement of the legs and hips and augmentation that soru doesn't provide.



> Hakuba shows this same thing being able to 1 shot dellinger, same with Kizaru, and everyother character who does this.



Habuka  was just fast, i don't get the comparison because he never fought dellinger otherwise.  

Kizaru is a completely different case from soru because unlike soru is entire body becomes augmented by the abilities of light.  His legs his hips essentially his entire body moves at the speed of light to generate those level of kicks.

You saw the trailing light on his foot when he kicked Hawkins. 




> Vergo is a huge mass of muscle and Haki, of course him dashing at you at hypersonic + speeds is going to increase his output.



Not for kicks as I explained. whether that's sufficient  is left to time.



> As for the whole leg argument that is stupid. Why would propelling his body extrmely fast, and jumping into the air for a jump kick not add to his strength? That's the point of a jump kick.....Soru is just kicking off the ground a shit ton of times real quick.



He jumped to carry the resultant speed of his soru enabling him to do the kick without any regards to the ground friction. 

(If you are running and you jump in the air you aren't going to stop as fast as you need if you were on the ground.)

If he tried to do the kick while on ground  the the explosive speed provided by the soru would have slowed down significantly or even be cancelled by his legs on the ground causing the friction against the movement.  At that point law would have put the heart back in his body.

Soru gives that burst of speed a ONE point of impact it's not continuous. 


.


> In that instance she was KO'd. Just like Smoker got KO'd but was relatively ok afterwards too.



Relatively okay is not the same as being able to engage in full on combat against monet.  Tashigi was soruing,  slashing and withstanding attacks from monet like she didn't get pimp slapped prior.

From my perspective Smoker was not okay.  He wasn't in any condition to fight at all when flamingo grabbed a hold of him.

Vergo did a number on him. 




> Dude Vergo doesn't selectively freaking crack opponents legs. He just hits them with varying general levels of hardness like any fighter. Hence why Sanji was able to deflect kicks immediatly after he got his leg cracked, he compensated for Vergo's ability.



He kicked with the intention of ending his fight.  Sanji was able to clash him him other than that bone cracking kick because  It was a regular melee combat at that point. 



> Regular invisi Haki is not the same as basic Haki. Otherwise there is no point for Oda to ever highlight it as colored.



And I just believe he forgot.  There's no reason otherwise for him to not use it against sanji logically. No other scene implies it. 



> Dude the evidence is clear as day. Like a regular punch from Luffy is not the same has a hardened punch from Luffy, the gatling Monet blocked is not the same one doflamingo dodged.



Flamingo dodged RED HAWK Gattling.  



> There is absolutel zero evdience for you to think Vergo pulled his punches on his attacks vs Law, and then went extra super hard for Sanji, who he didn't view as a threat, or even know. Like that's just hogwash.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Dr. White (Mar 29, 2015)

Canute87 said:


> Luffy explained the acceleration.  He did soru by doing the same thing every other soru user did to get that speed.  However the jet attacks are the result of his body entering some strange kind of state you know the smoker.
> This strange state enabled him to use soru as hell as ridiculously fast get paced attacks.


That is how Luffy makes his whole body go even faster ontop of the technique of Soru. G2 is the amplifier Soru is the speed technique. Luffy's punches go faster in G2 as well and are therefore stronger.



> Powerful kicks and powerful punches have different mechanisms.  Punches are straight forward so straight forward speed is going to have some effect i don't know much,  luffy had his DF to help him with that gain in speed.  Power kicks on the other foot are based on whip like movement of the legs and hips and augmentation that soru doesn't provide.


No, if you jump from a dash into a kick it's going to increase your acceleration and power your kick there is no way around this. Go look at how Vergo kicks Sanji when he fractures his leg, he sprints from his position near the wall and uses the speed to go straight into a kick that fractures his leg, all of the other kicks that are stationary, get parried by Sanji and do not fracture his leg. Like bro, cmon.




> Habuka  was just fast, i don't get the comparison because he never fought dellinger otherwise.


Dellinger was lol'ing at Ideo's attacks, and went fishman modo. Hakuba soloed him with one incredibly strong slash. Why was it strong? Because it was fast.... It wasn't named like Cavendsh's attacks, it was literally a haphazard slash that was really fast and therefore powerful.



> Kizaru is a completely different case from soru because unlike soru is entire body becomes augmented by the abilities of light.  His legs his hips essentially his entire body moves at the speed of light to generate those level of kicks.


No he selectively uses parts of his body at high speeds. His only light speed movement is out of the Mirror. But his partial Pika attacks are extremely fast, and he point blank told Hawkins speed = Weight.




> Not for kicks as I explained. whether that's sufficient  is left to time.


this is completel nonsensical. Not only are there attacks irl that prove this completely wrong (aka a High Jump kick) but Vergo displayed that he can kick out of a dash twice and both times they were extremely powerful, all of his other kicks did squat to Sanji and Smoker.




> He jumped to carry the resultant speed of his soru enabling him to do the kick without any regards to the ground friction.
> 
> (If you are running and you jump in the air you aren't going to stop as fast as you need if you were on the ground.)
> 
> If he tried to do the kick while on ground  the the explosive speed provided by the soru would have slowed down significantly or even be cancelled by his legs on the ground causing the friction against the movement.  At that point law would have put the heart back in his body.


No this whole argument depends on you having to slow down completely to make the kicking motion at the end which isn't true. You only have to maneuver your body as to transfer the energy from the dash (in one leg using the other as a swivelas you can see Vergo did), or simply launch from the dash itself. 



> Soru gives that burst of speed a ONE point of impact it's not continuous.


See above.




> Relatively okay is not the same as being able to engage in full on combat against monet.  Tashigi was soruing,  slashing and withstanding attacks from monet like she didn't get pimp slapped prior.


Tashigi got hit with 1 attack. The point is that one attacked downed her and Vergo would have killed her and she couldn't do squat but cry. Her face has nothing to do with her ability to soru, and Tashigi could have used her basic COA to dampen the blow. 



> From my perspective Smoker was not okay.  He wasn't in any condition to fight at all when flamingo grabbed a hold of him.


To be fair he got hit with Vergo's strongest shown attack.



> He kicked with the intention of ending his fight.  Sanji was able to clash him him other than that bone cracking kick because  It was a regular melee combat at that point.


Sanji got cracked because Vergo had a ton of momentum and Sanji wasn't ready for his kick. That simple. Vergo wanted to end the fight but he didn't put anywhere near high effort into doing so. He didn't use partial hardening like vs Law and Smoker, he didn't use fullbody, and he didn't care about Sanji's presence aside from getting hit. He told him to mind his neck, and after the fight lol Geppou'd away after taking two DJ's.





> And I just believe he forgot.  There's no reason otherwise for him to not use it against sanji logically. No other scene implies it.


It's called basic COA like the one Rayleigh displayed to Luffy which is invisible shade.





> Flamingo dodged RED HAWK Gattling.


And no sold Haki Jet Gatling.



> My evidence is supported by him having law's heart and not crushing it on spot killing him . Law was being punished,  against Sanji he was going for the finisher.  You can deny this but I'll always bring up the heart.


Vergo was obviously punishing Law that is my point. He wanted to fuck Law up with his own hands. The heart was only there for good measure. Vergo was not pulling his punches vs Law, he just wanted to do it himself like he did years ago. This was called back when he told Law the first time (When he smacked him with his Haki cane) when Vergo told him to call him Vergo San (the same thing which happened to small law before his beating.). 

Just because vergo didn't crush his heart doesn't mean *he was pulling his punches* or not trying to severly to mortally wound LAw with with* his hardened punch/elbow/cane blow.*


----------



## Extravlad (Mar 30, 2015)

> Law tanked attacks from Dofla. SHit doesnt even compare


Zoro's offensive power is higher than Doffy's.

Ashura > everything Doffy has shown so far.


----------



## Canute87 (Mar 30, 2015)

Dr. White said:


> That is how Luffy makes his whole body go even faster ontop of the technique of Soru. G2 is the amplifier Soru is the speed technique. Luffy's punches go faster in G2 as well and are therefore stronger.



So then we have established that soru is not responsible for this. 




> No, if you jump from a dash into a kick it's going to increase your acceleration and power your kick there is no way around this. Go look at how Vergo kicks Sanji when he fractures his leg, he sprints from his position near the wall and uses the speed to go straight into a kick that fractures his leg, all of the other kicks that are stationary, get parried by Sanji and do not fracture his leg. Like bro, cmon.



Jumping from a dash is not going to increase your acceleration.

Going fast isn't going to increase the power of your kicks when kicks in general go against the initial speed force.  
It's the rotation that provides the power in the kicks if vergo was spinning while in mid air I might have conceded.

The only reason why jump kicks can be powerful is that it enables the person to gather that necessary force while going have to worry about air resistance which is achieved by spinning. I.e  you can spin more in mid air than on the ground for obvious reasons.

[YOUTUBE]QLspT1MzTyE[/YOUTUBE]



> Dellinger was lol'ing at Ideo's attacks, and went fishman modo. Hakuba soloed him with one incredibly strong slash. Why was it strong? Because it was fast.... It wasn't named like Cavendsh's attacks, it was literally a haphazard slash that was really fast and therefore powerful.



Different people, different techniques.

Also  I don't remember hideo hitting him at all.  So where are you drawing the comparison.




> No he selectively uses parts of his body at high speeds. His only light speed movement is out of the Mirror. But his partial Pika attacks are extremely fast, and he point blank told Hawkins speed = Weight.



When he came out of yata no kagami the light was still trailing for his leg so same thing  it matters little but the point to show you that his entire body can be augmented and it is augemented to get that level of speed. 




> this is completel nonsensical. Not only are there attacks irl that prove this completely wrong (aka a High Jump kick) but Vergo displayed that he can kick out of a dash twice and both times they were extremely powerful, all of his other kicks did squat to Sanji and Smoker.



A regular high jump kick has never been  shown to be stronger than a "standing one" unless said person was spinning in mid air.





> No this whole argument depends on you having to slow down completely to make the kicking motion at the end which isn't true. You only have to maneuver your body as to transfer the energy from the dash (in one leg using the other as a swivelas you can see Vergo did), or simply launch from the dash itself.



Simply launch from the dash isn't going to suddenly make your rotating leg move faster. Rotating hips and legs.  You can even test this by kicking a ball.
I'm sure the grounded kick will be stronger.



> Tashigi got hit with 1 attack. The point is that one attacked downed her and Vergo would have killed her and she couldn't do squat but cry. Her face has nothing to do with her ability to soru, and Tashigi could have used her basic COA to dampen the blow.



Her combat ability was unaffected overall.  The point is vergo did no lasting damage with a haki fist, she was down for a few minutes at best.




> To be fair he got hit with Vergo's strongest shown attack.



Yeah  but as you said it should have just been scaled up.




> Sanji got cracked because Vergo had a ton of momentum and Sanji wasn't ready for his kick. That simple. Vergo wanted to end the fight but he didn't put anywhere near high effort into doing so. He didn't use partial hardening like vs Law and Smoker, he didn't use fullbody, and he didn't care about Sanji's presence aside from getting hit. He told him to mind his neck, and after the fight lol Geppou'd away after taking two DJ's.



Fail to see what is so hard in vergo using hardening when he uses it in every other scene.  Hell he used hardening to simply torture law and bitch slap tashigi.  A just end it fight should have the same motivation and Sanji more than proved his worth as capable fighter.




> It's called basic COA like the one Rayleigh displayed to Luffy which is invisible shade.



I just call it inconsistency.   Vergo's theme is hardening and has used it in every other scene I've mentioned before.




> And no sold Haki Jet Gatling.



With hardening of his own, Also the jet gattling broke monet's snow barrier so I don't get the point.




> Vergo was obviously punishing Law that is my point. He wanted to fuck Law up with his own hands. The heart was only there for good measure. Vergo was not pulling his punches vs Law, he just wanted to do it himself like he did years ago. This was called back when he told Law the first time (When he smacked him with his Haki cane) when Vergo told him to call him Vergo San (the same thing which happened to small law before his beating.).
> 
> Just because vergo didn't crush his heart doesn't mean *he was pulling his punches* or not trying to severly to mortally wound LAw with with* his hardened punch/elbow/cane blow.*



That's exactly what it means.  He was hitting him hard but that's it.

The only reason he squeezed law's heart to the point of knocking him out was because he wanted to deal with smoker, and even then there was no intent to kill him but just torture him some more. 

"Call me Vergo -San"  that conversation isn't something that points to any intent to kill.  But that's just me.


----------



## Coruscation (Mar 30, 2015)

Canute said:
			
		

> Flamingo dodged RED HAWK Gattling.



He did not. It was a Jet Gatling with Hardening on it. There was nothing red about it. The *exact* same thing was used against Monet. There is no discernible difference nor any reason there should be a difference. Oda just retconned the name of the attack into suddenly and inexplicably being Hawk Gatling. It's simply a Jet Gatling + Hardening from a mechanical standpoint.

Luffy used a Haki_less_ Jet Gatling the 1st time they met, Dof blocked that with Hardening, however he opted to dodge the Hardening imbued Jet Gatling.


----------



## Dr. White (Mar 30, 2015)

Bro. Speed will give you power in most instances. This isn't debatable. Did CP9 not use Geppou and Soru to enhance their Soru's? Did Coby not try to enhance his punch vs Luffy via a Soru Dash? I even showed you Vergo doing it so honestly will have to agree to disagree.

Listen I'm not gonna go writing walls of text back and forth on this. You seem to agree that "He was hitting him hard but that's it.". That's the whole point. There is no evidence to suggest he was hitting Sanji any "harder" because he wanted to "end the fight" especially with the lack of hardening. You can't just make up your own rules about Vergo using it all the time, the only times we apply hardening feats is when it has to be, and even then it's still basic COA like Rayleigh showed. You can't call it inconsistency when we've been shown Haki in 2 different applications.

Oda even alluded to Vergo using Haki when Sanji said his body felt like kicking Iron. So unless you think Oda forget in that same chapter, my bet is on basic COA

vergo had a personal vendetta against Law who betrayed doflamingo, and was trying to ruin all of his plans as Vergo came in and found Law. It's nonsensical to think he'd hit Law anyless hard than Sanji especially given the history and mindset differences in relation to both and the fact that Vergo was explicitly shown using Hardening 3 out of the 4 times he hit Law.


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## Freechoice (Mar 30, 2015)

Coruscation said:


> Luffy used a Haki_less_ Jet Gatling the 1st time they met, Dof blocked that with Hardening, however he opted to dodge the Hardening imbued Jet Gatling.



Interesting observation, Coblus.


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## Daisuke Jigen (Mar 30, 2015)

Extravlad said:


> You are ignorant.
> 
> Get off Doffy's dick he hasn't shown anything that suggest his offensive power is beyond Zoro's.



*Spoiler*: __


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## Freechoice (Mar 30, 2015)

It still looks like Luffy pulled back before he made contact with the web

It's supported by the fact that he didn't yell his attack too, which he always does


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## Extravlad (Mar 30, 2015)

Issho said:


> *Spoiler*: __


Birdcage is irrelevant in an one on one fight.
I don't understand why you guys believe Doffy must be better than Zoro/Luffy at everything, it was never the case with Luffy previous opponents, all of them had flaws.

Crocodile had less offensive power than both Luffy and Zoro and had to rely on hax to defeat Luffy both times.

Enel's durability was shit.

Moriah was slow as fuck.


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## Canute87 (Mar 30, 2015)

Dr. White said:


> Bro. Speed will give you power in most instances. This isn't debatable. Did CP9 not use Geppou and Soru to enhance their Soru's? Did Coby not try to enhance his punch vs Luffy via a Soru Dash? I even showed you Vergo doing it so honestly will have to agree to disagree.



But i already acknowledged the difference between punches and kicks.  

Punches follow a linear movement soru is linear by it's application the linear speed is going to help the linear attacks, For kicks it will not kicks do not...well powerful kicks anyways.  The only type of attacks feet attacks that will benefit from this are stomps and knees, not kicks that require the rotation of the hips and feet.  As the speed from soru doesn't add to that rotational energy. Using soru doesn't make your limbs move faster it's just one bust of acceleration. 

You go against a particular force you aren't going to get it's necessary advantage. 

Guess you aren't going to agree 



> *Listen I'm not gonna go writing walls of text back and forth on this. You seem to agree that "He was hitting him hard but that's it.".* That's the whole point. There is no evidence to suggest he was hitting Sanji any "harder" because he wanted to "end the fight" especially with the lack of hardening. You can't just make up your own rules about Vergo using it all the time, the only times we apply hardening feats is when it has to be, and even then it's still basic COA like Rayleigh showed. You can't call it inconsistency when we've been shown Haki in 2 different applications.


I understand quite and frankly i agree  two days worth is too much   We've seen haki in two different applications but there's also the character and their preference to consider.  If there was any other time vergo did not use hardening then I'd concede but one outlier can't be used to define a generalization.



> Oda even alluded to Vergo using Haki when Sanji said his body felt like kicking Iron. So unless you think Oda forget in that same chapter, my bet is on basic COA


He forgot to colour luffy when he said the words :armament hardening"  so it isn't impossible by any means.



> vergo had a personal vendetta against Law who betrayed doflamingo, and was trying to ruin all of his plans as Vergo came in and found Law. It's nonsensical to think he'd hit Law anyless hard than Sanji especially given the history and mindset differences in relation to both and the fact that Vergo was explicitly shown using Hardening 3 out of the 4 times he hit Law.


He doesn't exactly have any personal vendetta against smoker and tashigi either.  Sanji was a fight he needed to end quickly because he had to get to law. So much so that you saw his leg extend all the way back to what his hips were physically capable of to land that hit.
It's usually times like these when plot favours the stronger and it becomes more obvious.

So  I pose one final question to you.  You think Vergo is incapable of cracking Law's bones?


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## Dr. White (Mar 30, 2015)

Canute87 said:


> So  I pose one final question to you.  You think Vergo is incapable of cracking Law's bones?


If Vergo hit Law with a Soru Kick + HArdening to the face I'm pretty sure Law's face would have been broken. Similarly taking Oni Take would have fractured Law up good anywhere Vergo hit (assuming Law didn't defend with his haki). But we've already seen a casual swing, a punch and an elbow (both of which came after the regular Kick from Soru) didn't do it or anything other than moderately injure Law.


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## Canute87 (Mar 30, 2015)

Coruscation said:


> *He did not. It was a Jet Gatling with Hardening on it. There was nothing red about it*. The *exact* same thing was used against Monet. There is no discernible difference nor any reason there should be a difference. Oda just retconned the name of the attack into suddenly and inexplicably being Hawk Gatling. It's simply a Jet Gatling + Hardening from a mechanical standpoint.
> 
> Luffy used a Haki_less_ Jet Gatling the 1st time they met, Dof blocked that with Hardening, however he opted to dodge the Hardening imbued Jet Gatling.



Oh my apologies then, the name and the smoke threw me off.




Dr. White said:


> If Vergo hit Law with a Soru Kick + HArdening to the face I'm pretty sure Law's face would have been broken. Similarly taking Oni Take would have fractured Law up good anywhere Vergo hit (assuming Law didn't defend with his haki). But we've already seen a casual swing, a punch and an elbow (both of which came after the regular Kick from Soru) didn't do it or anything other than moderately injure Law.



 I just realized that the there was no indication that vergo used hardening in the jump kick against law.


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## Coruscation (Mar 30, 2015)

I don't think Vergo was holding anything back against either Law or Sanji but the kick he did against Sanji is one of the meaner looking kicks I've seen in this manga. Guy came at Sanji like he intended to kick him to the moon. I doubt Oda intends for the blows he delivered to Law to have been more powerful than what he gave Sanji.


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## Suit (Mar 30, 2015)

Probably Law, mid. He's proven himself. I honestly believe he's stronger than Luffy at this point.


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## Lawliet (Mar 31, 2015)

Suit said:


> Probably Law, mid. He's proven himself. I honestly believe he's stronger than Luffy at this point.



Yeah, that's why it's Luffy who's going to beat Doffy while Law is on the ground hopeless. Even Law admit inferiority to Luffy.


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## trance (Mar 31, 2015)

Where did he admit inferiority?


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## Lawliet (Mar 31, 2015)

Trance said:


> Where did he admit inferiority?



-The Strawhats have been performing miracles all over the world.
-mugiwara is a D, you afraid of Ds
-You are underestimating the Strawhats Doflamingo. You will never get Ceaser back, your life is over. 
-Law put so much faith in you mugiwara.

The list goes on.

Law obviously thinks highly of Luffy, and believes he's something beyond special. He's obviously not going to say "oh man, I think mugiwara beats me in a 1 vs 1", but he did say that indirectly. Otherwise, why doesn't Law perform these miracles instead of Luffy. Such as the miracle of beating Doflamingo.


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## LyricalMessiah (Mar 31, 2015)

oOLawlietOo said:


> Yeah, that's why it's Luffy who's going to beat Doffy while Law is on the ground hopeless. Even Law admit inferiority to Luffy.



I wouldn't invest an adequate amount of time with people who think Law would beat Zoro with a mere Mid difficulty if I were you tbh.


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## TheWiggian (Mar 31, 2015)

Law is more wanked than Zoro so yea Law wins the poll.


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## HisMajestyMihawk (Mar 31, 2015)

Studies have proven that 90% of the population is retarded

This poll aligns with my expectations


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## Etherborn (Mar 31, 2015)

HisMajestyMihawk said:


> Studies have proven that 90% of the population is retarded
> 
> This poll aligns with my expectations



90% of statistics are complete bullshit. This one is no exception, but neither is yours.


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## R o r o n o a Z o r o (Apr 2, 2015)

_I can't see how any of Law's moves even works against Zoro.  It's exactly as if people are assuming that Law wins just because he abilities sounds cool. Law is weaker than Luffy he even admitted that in front of Joker and we all know that Luffy has 0 haxed abilities yet for some reason people tend to believe that Law greatly outclasses Zoro in terms of strength? Nothing from Law except his feat against Vergo is above what we have seen from Zoro. 

 Zoro totally outclasses Law as a swordsman means that Zoro's striking speed is above Law so Law's teleportation can't help him here as he's receive Minato/Tobirama like treatment from Zoro. Zoro proved to be able to avoid attacks that would require god like reaction time. Zoro may not be haxed like Law but his basic traits clearly outshines that of Law. 

Law's haki is anywhere near that of Zoro. His DF literally bypasses durability of things and he went through the trouble of making a big ass room which will have considerable effect on him to be able to pull a mountain level attack where as Zoro pulled mountain level attacks without much struggle. no need to mention that his feat is purely haki based which would clearly put Zoro's haki above that of Law's. 

Zoro isn't going to anywhere below high dif or even more._


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## yantos (Apr 3, 2015)

law is hax law wins , people tend to forget that law`s hax needs to land in order to be effictive otherwise it`s not much , so he needs to have higher stats (some of the stats at least)  to make his hax usefull which are: 

higher attack speed : law attack speed are above avarege at best  no thing is impressive on the other hand zoro  cut the kraken before anyone could know what is happening .
*zoro wins this  *
higher reaction speed : the one who was able to dodge attacks propelled at speed of light (not saying it`s light speed but it`s way too fast ) and on top of that has CoO against the one who dsnt even have CoO (not confirmed at least )
*Zoro got this too *
higher speed : *law got this* but the fact that zoro has higher reaction speed to react and higher attack speed to land the strikes before law render law`s speed useless unless he used it to run away  

so zoro pretty much outclasses law and his hax isnt doing a thing unless he got a sneak shot which he wont even dream about in a fair 1vs1 fight  

now let`s take a look at the rest of the stats  :

strength : the one who overpowerd fuji`s gravity vs the one who needed his df to escape fuji`s "not even  strong enough to creat a hole" gravity . choose for your self 
durabilty : is any law fan here want to argue here  ? no one ? cool let`s move on 
stamina : law is no pushover when it comes to stamina i have to admit that but you cant just compete with a stamina monster 
haki : coo zoro one law nell
          coa : zoro by benefit of doubt


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## Dr. White (Apr 3, 2015)

Law has better reaction feats. 

Law's Hax > Zoro's Haki until the latter shows more to prove himself.

Law doesn't need better stats to land his hax. He needs stats close enough not to get soloed (see Law vs Smoker and Law vs Vergo) but his hax compensates for not being overly versed in a specific area like Sanji/Zoro are.

That being said Zoro ain't winning unless you take away Law's DF.


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## Daisuke Jigen (Apr 3, 2015)

8 pages...


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## felixng2008 (Apr 3, 2015)

Law with high difficulty. His op op no mi will be too much for Zoro to deal with.


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