# Eldrazi vs. the Narutoverse



## C. Hook (Mar 25, 2010)

The Eldrazi have been awakened, blahblahblah, METHOD OF TEST TIME!

For anyone wondering...


That tall thing right there is an Eldrazi (Albeit one of the most powerful ones). A smaller one is this...


And no, they don't get their Eldrazi Drone servants.

All other Eldrazi vs. the Narutoverse

If this is a rapestomp for the Eldrazi, throw in the rest of the HST.


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## Lucifeller (Mar 25, 2010)

Considering they kill things just by deciding to attack, I can't see it ending well. All of them attacking together will completely decimate the Narutoverse's ranks, eliminating all their strongest characters simply because they did decide to attack. The rest gets trampled over, honest...


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## C. Hook (Mar 25, 2010)

Fun information: Eldrazi liked to munch on Planes (Mini-universes) as their usual source of food.


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## Crimson King (Mar 25, 2010)

narutoverse gets eaten.


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## Lucifeller (Mar 25, 2010)

The Eldrazi also required the combined efforts of half a dozen Planeswalkers just to be sealed away - killing them proved too overwhelming a task even for 'Walkers - so you KNOW they are really freaking high in the food chain.

They may not have the inherent hideous brokenness of Progenitus (Protection from everything, lol), a Darksteel Colossus (who can also solo the whole verse) or even Marit Lage (20/20 indestructible flier, hahaha), but they are still badly broken.


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## Crimson King (Mar 25, 2010)

They also get around indestructible. holy shit.


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## C. Hook (Mar 25, 2010)

Lucifeller said:


> The Eldrazi also required the combined efforts of half a dozen Planeswalkers just to be sealed away - killing them proved too overwhelming a task even for 'Walkers - so you KNOW they are really freaking high in the food chain.



Took 3, actually.

However, those were Old Walkers, and we all know how powerful Old Walkers are.


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## Crimson King (Mar 25, 2010)

C. Hook said:


> Took 3, actually.
> 
> However, those were Old Walkers, and we all know how powerful Old Walkers are.



And the new walkers are trying to fight them


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## Gooba (Mar 25, 2010)

That is the most powerful creature in Magic.


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## C. Hook (Mar 25, 2010)

Gooba said:


> That is the most powerful creature in Magic.





Crimson King said:


>



OBJECTION!



Although that card is hilarious. It's pretty much, "When you cast this card, you FUCKING WIN THE GAME!"


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## Lucifeller (Mar 25, 2010)

C. Hook said:


> OBJECTION!
> 
> 
> 
> Although that card is hilarious. It's pretty much, "When you cast this card, you FUCKING WIN THE GAME!"





WHERE IS YOUR GOD NOW?!


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## randomsurfer (Mar 26, 2010)

Hey, how did you get that card before prerelease?


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## Quelsatron (Mar 26, 2010)

randomsurfer said:


> Hey, how did you get that card before prerelease?



It was spoiled of course, silly


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## Gooba (Mar 26, 2010)

Crimson King said:


>


15/15 + Time Walk + Annihilator 6 + Uncounterable + Protection from Colored Spells > 20/20.  It takes 1 opponent turn for Marit to attack for 20, in the same time Emrakul attacks for 30 and 12 permanents.

Altho the actual most powerful creature ever is:


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## Lucifeller (Mar 26, 2010)

Meh, I'll take Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker over the Welder anyday.

Also, doesn't matter if Emrakul has time walk built in. A single unblocked attack from Marit Lage generally ends the game, barring players with lifegain as their strategy - and those players will simply Swords either creature off the field.

And Marit Lage comes out a lot faster than Emrakul to boot. In fact, entirely possible to land her within the first two turns. WITHOUT power nine.


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## Crimson King (Mar 26, 2010)

Lucifeller said:


> Meh, I'll take Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker over the Welder anyday.
> 
> Also, doesn't matter if Emrakul has time walk built in. A single unblocked attack from Marit Lage generally ends the game, barring players with lifegain as their strategy - and those players will simply Swords either creature off the field.
> 
> And Marit Lage comes out a lot faster than Emrakul to boot. In fact, entirely possible to land her within the first two turns. WITHOUT power nine.



Hexmage makes that so easy.


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## Gooba (Mar 26, 2010)

Lucifeller said:


> Meh, I'll take Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker over the Welder anyday.
> 
> Also, doesn't matter if Emrakul has time walk built in. A single unblocked attack from Marit Lage generally ends the game, barring players with lifegain as their strategy - and those players will simply Swords either creature off the field.
> 
> And Marit Lage comes out a lot faster than Emrakul to boot. In fact, entirely possible to land her within the first two turns. WITHOUT power nine.


You can't swords, Chain of Vapor, or anything else Emrakul.  By the time you do the single attack with Marit Lage you could do 2 with Emrakul, which would do 10 more damage and be much more difficult to stop due to saccing 12 perms.  You can't chump block that for long.


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## Anasazi (Mar 26, 2010)

Lucifeller said:


> WHERE IS YOUR GOD NOW?!



Funny you should say that.  Apparently, the Eldrazi don't really care about your God.



Just spoiled.  And yeah, it's real.  And it's Tribal, so it's still Eldrazi.


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## Crimson King (Mar 26, 2010)

Rachmiel said:


> Funny you should say that.  Apparently, the Eldrazi don't really care about your God.
> 
> 
> 
> Just spoiled.  And yeah, it's real.  And it's Tribal, so it's still Eldrazi.



And that is why I love my mirrodin deck.


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## C. Hook (Mar 26, 2010)

I am SO going to spam affinity decks like a dick at my casual group after they all make Eldrazi decks.


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## Crimson King (Mar 26, 2010)

Cranial platings + 0 drops :ho


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## Nihilistic (Mar 27, 2010)

What would you guys say if I confessed that in a debate about Magic: the Gathering vs DC comics I argued for DC? 

Also, HST gets eaten.


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## Lucifeller (Mar 27, 2010)

Nihilistic said:


> What would you guys say if I confessed that in a debate about Magic: the Gathering vs DC comics I argued for DC?
> 
> Also, HST gets eaten.



That's actually fair. DC does have actual omnipotents, whereas for all they are retardedly overopowered, even old 'walkers have limits.

Granted, those limits are so high you pretty much need to bring in DC's biggest guns (Spectre, Anti-Monitor) for them to win, but they CAN win.

Although getting rid of blue 'walkers will be a bitch and a half, since their typical approach to any fight is to say no. Literally. Goddamn counterspells...


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## Crimson King (Mar 27, 2010)

Lucifeller said:


> That's actually fair. DC does have actual omnipotents, whereas for all they are retardedly overopowered, even old 'walkers have limits.
> 
> Granted, those limits are so high you pretty much need to bring in DC's biggest guns (Spectre, Anti-Monitor) for them to win, but they CAN win.
> 
> Although getting rid of blue 'walkers will be a bitch and a half, since their typical approach to any fight is to say no. Literally. Goddamn counterspells...



It's alot worse when have a Guile or two in play


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## Lucifeller (Mar 27, 2010)

Gooba said:


> You can't swords, Chain of Vapor, or anything else Emrakul.  By the time you do the single attack with Marit Lage you could do 2 with Emrakul, which would do 10 more damage and be much more difficult to stop due to saccing 12 perms.  You can't chump block that for long.



Actually, yes, you CAN Swords to Plowshares Emrakul. Read his card again. He doesn't have protection, he can be targeted, and he's not an artifact. He just can't be COUNTERED.

Since Swords removes him from the game, he's not reshuffled in the deck, either.

I've been playing Magic: the Gathering since Revised Edition, I'd like to think I know something about the rules.

Also, All Is Dust is massively overcosted and completely useless against any and all Affinity decks, since those spam 0-cost artifacts like whores. I'd rather cast this:



Especially if I am abusing the Madness mechanics.


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## Nihilistic (Mar 27, 2010)

Lucifeller said:


> That's actually fair. DC does have actual omnipotents, whereas for all they are retardedly overopowered, even old 'walkers have limits.
> 
> Granted, those limits are so high you pretty much need to bring in DC's biggest guns (Spectre, Anti-Monitor) for them to win, but they CAN win.
> 
> Although getting rid of blue 'walkers will be a bitch and a half, since their typical approach to any fight is to say no. Literally. Goddamn counterspells...



Interesting. Well, I left that to others and am actually supporting Superboy-Prime, in that he would get quite far before falling. Especially counting in his retarded resistance against magical attacks and reality warping, energy absorption and his physical prowess. Any views on this? 

The problem is, that the card games are stupidly difficult to bring into battle against comic characters, the only thing we have is feats from the books.


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## Anasazi (Mar 27, 2010)

Lucifeller said:


> *Actually, yes, you CAN Swords to Plowshares Emrakul. Read his card again. He doesn't have protection, he can be targeted, and he's not an artifact. He just can't be COUNTERED.
> 
> Since Swords removes him from the game, he's not reshuffled in the deck, either.*
> 
> ...



...Emrakul has protection from colored spells.  You can't Swords to Plowshares him.    And Zen block mana ramping and Eldrazi lands say that a _colorless sweeper_ might actually be playable.  And I know what you mean about all the affinity decks in type 2 right now...oh wait, that was 7 years ago.  Unless they bring back affinity in Scars of Mirrodin, All Is Dust handles all current popular decks in T2 (except Eldrazi if it becomes popular) including Esper most of the time.


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## Crimson King (Mar 27, 2010)

Rachmiel said:


> ...Emrakul has protection from colored spells.  You can't Swords to Plowshares him.    And Zen block mana ramping and Eldrazi lands say that a _colorless sweeper_ might actually be playable.  And I know what you mean about all the affinity decks in type 2 right now...oh wait, that was 7 years ago.  Unless they bring back affinity in Scars of Mirrodin, All Is Dust handles all current popular decks in T2 (except Eldrazi if it becomes popular) including Esper most of the time.



Luckily I run a permission deck


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## Gooba (Mar 27, 2010)

Lucifeller said:


> Actually, yes, you CAN Swords to Plowshares Emrakul. Read his card again. He doesn't have protection, he can be targeted, and he's not an artifact. He just can't be COUNTERED.
> 
> Since Swords removes him from the game, he's not reshuffled in the deck, either.
> 
> ...


I've also been playing since Revised.  Emrakul has protection from colored spells, so you can't cast Swords, or any other targeted removal on him.  

The fact that one card doesn't work against Affinity is a pretty minor complaint considering that is only used in casual games, and only like 1/1000th of casual decks are affinity. 

If I was playing a colorless and artifact deck I'd definitely take making my opponent sacrifice everything except lands over losing all of my permanents too.

Another reason Emrakul is better than Marit is that your opponent doesn't get a chance to cast sorcery speed removal before they have to sacrifice 6 perms and probably lose 15 life.


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## Crimson King (Mar 27, 2010)

Gooba said:


> I've also been playing since Revised.  Emrakul has protection from colored spells, so you can't cast Swords, or any other targeted removal on him.
> 
> The fact that one card doesn't work against Affinity is a pretty minor complaint considering that is only used in casual games, and only like 1/1000th of casual decks are affinity.
> 
> ...




If they have mana open, blue players can always use time stop


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## Lucifeller (Mar 28, 2010)

Right, missed the protection from colors. I'll concede my distraction there.

Of course, still does nothing against monoblack control, which is still insanely popular and generally works by massacring all your threats either before they hit play (removal and discard) or as soon as they are into play (sacrificing).

It also does nothing against mass removal, single-target colored EFFECTS (lol, Bone Shredder instakills it) and global enchantments. Not to mention the destroyed permanents aren't chosen by Emrakul's user, so for all you know you are attacking with him and your opponent is sacking everything except that Iona, Shield of Emeria or Platinum Angel over there.

Incidentally, the activated effects from colored enchantments DO get past Emrakul's protection, as what goes on the stack isn't the spell itself, but its effect after you activate and/or sack it.



> If I was playing a colorless and artifact deck I'd definitely take making my opponent sacrifice everything except lands over losing all of my permanents too.



Have fun against control, MBC and direct damage decks. That strategy is so completely worthless against that sort of deck (since except for control-lock, they rarely if ever have more than land into play), I don't know why you'd even bother using All Is Dust. Emrakul would be marginally more useful against control decks, but still get nuked at instant speed by black removal or just wiped off the board by red mass-reset. Given the presence of Iona, Shield of Emeria in the meta, mass reset spells have become insanely popular all of a sudden, so Emrakul is walking into what is essentially a deathtrap for all creatures in the block.

If Iona weren't what she was (ie, such a gamebreaker it made people build decks that either win before you get enough mana for Emrakul/All is Dust, or can deal with a giant gamebreaking creature), Emrakul would have an easier life of it. As it is, it's going to take minimal changes for decks all over to be capable of raping a deck that relies too much on Eldrazi cards... especially one that doesn't nuke their lands. And that assumes decks that run Jace don't simply remove Emrakul off the game before you can even cast it.

If anything else, all those library removal cards in Zendikar will now become more popular. There's at least two in blue and one in black that can outright remove from the game the above cards and are considerably cheaper to cast to boot...


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## Gooba (Mar 28, 2010)

Lucifeller said:


> Right, missed the protection from colors. I'll concede my distraction there.
> 
> Of course, still does nothing against monoblack control, which is still insanely popular and generally works by massacring all your threats either before they hit play (removal and discard) or as soon as they are into play (sacrificing).
> 
> ...


Want me to list all of the cards that completely shut down Yawgmoth's Will or Tinker?  Those are easily the two most powerful spells in the game, despite Rebuild and Tormod's Crypt.  No card is unstoppable.




> Have fun against control, MBC and direct damage decks. That strategy is so completely worthless against that sort of deck (since except for control-lock, they rarely if ever have more than land into play), I don't know why you'd even bother using All Is Dust. Emrakul would be marginally more useful against control decks, but still get nuked at instant speed by black removal or just wiped off the board by red mass-reset. Given the presence of Iona, Shield of Emeria in the meta, mass reset spells have become insanely popular all of a sudden, so Emrakul is walking into what is essentially a deathtrap for all creatures in the block.


No card is perfect against every deck.  If we are using your criteria for deckbuilding we'd never get a single card in.  Red resets on sorcery speed, and I doubt any deck playing it could still get it off after losing 6 permanents.



> If Iona weren't what she was (ie, such a gamebreaker it made people build decks that either win before you get enough mana for Emrakul/All is Dust, or can deal with a giant gamebreaking creature), Emrakul would have an easier life of it. As it is, it's going to take minimal changes for decks all over to be capable of raping a deck that relies too much on Eldrazi cards... especially one that doesn't nuke their lands. And that assumes decks that run Jace don't simply remove Emrakul off the game before you can even cast it.


I would rather hardcast Emrakul than Iona.  You don't make a deck that relies on Eldrazi cards, you make a deck that uses them as a win condition combined with acceleration, control, or beatdown pressure.



> If anything else, all those library removal cards in Zendikar will now become more popular. There's at least two in blue and one in black that can outright remove from the game the above cards and are considerably cheaper to cast to boot...


So what you are saying is a card isn't good if it can be removed from your library?  Find me a single card that is immune to that.  Ancestral Recall, Yawgmoth's Win, Tinker, Black Lotus, Iona, etc...


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## Chainwave (Mar 28, 2010)

After looking at these spoilers....
RIP drafting and fuck you Wizards of the Coast..


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## C. Hook (Mar 28, 2010)

Chainwave said:


> After looking at these spoilers....
> RIP drafting and fuck you Wizards of the Coast..



Drafting's still gonna be fun. Trust me, the level ups and eldrazi will balance each other out, along with early game defense.

Although nothing will ever compare to Ravnica standard...


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## Lucifeller (Mar 28, 2010)

> Want me to list all of the cards that completely shut down Yawgmoth's Will or Tinker? Those are easily the two most powerful spells in the game, despite Rebuild and Tormod's Crypt. No card is unstoppable.



The problem is that Emrakul is a CREATURE. There's a reason why no creature is on the banned list - they are too fragile. There's literally six gajillion ways - far more, in fact, than ways to stop an instant or sorcery - to make creatures go away.

I'd rather hardcast Progenitus with its protection from everything than Emrakul, despite Emrakul having more abilities tacked on. And I'd hardcast Nicol "Goddamn but I am a broken friend" Bolas than either of those.

Not to mention that unlike Emrakul, Iona is literally an instant win against a monocolor deck, as she shuts down your very ability to cast spells at all. The Eldrazi are a necessity just to get around her.



> No card is perfect against every deck. If we are using your criteria for deckbuilding we'd never get a single card in. Red resets on sorcery speed, and I doubt any deck playing it could still get it off after losing 6 permanents.



Do you have a vague idea how many permanents a red Goblin deck has on the board by the time you can cast Emrakul in any way?

Hint: think way over a dozen, approaching two dozen. One attack from Emrakul will barely dinge a red deck, which would then reply by either turning up the heat and blowing your noggin off with something like Chandra Nalaar or simply stomp over you with a zerg rush out of fucking nowhere after you used up your resources to get that big useless lump on the board.

Actually, make that 'any decent swarm deck can stomp you flat before you get Emrakul in play'. Goblins are just the more broken of the lot. And swarm decks ALWAYS have reset buttons in case something hard to handle gets in play. After all, they can recover a lot faster than you from a mass reset of anything, land included. A very typical combo for white was creatures for three turns, then Armageddon the board clean of lands...

I'm saying that Emrakul is a card designed to make Timmies happy. It's big and brutal... but fairly limited and useless in scope beyond certain tricks.



> So what you are saying is a card isn't good if it can be removed from your library? Find me a single card that is immune to that. Ancestral Recall, Yawgmoth's Win, Tinker, Black Lotus, Iona, etc...



What I am saying is that if a card can be removed from the game with ease, it better be at the very least quick to play. Emrakul just plain isn't quick to play. It's also a creature to boot which makes removal effects even more prone to scrubbing it clean off the game. I'd rather get that turn 2 Marit Lage token (which, that early in the game, is very likely to be lethal outright, especially being black and with over 3 in toughness, which puts it out of range of most creaturekill in the game) than wait until at the very least turn 5 for a halfway decent shot at Emrakul.

That's just my opinion though.

And I refuse to touch Saproling decks. Those can stall Emrakul and pretty much anything else without evasion until doomsday, if needed. Goddamn decks churning out 26 tokens per turn...


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## Gooba (Mar 28, 2010)

Lucifeller said:


> The problem is that Emrakul is a CREATURE. There's a reason why no creature is on the banned list - they are too fragile. There's literally six gajillion ways - far more, in fact, than ways to stop an instant or sorcery - to make creatures go away.
> 
> I'd rather hardcast Progenitus with its protection from everything than Emrakul, despite Emrakul having more abilities tacked on. And I'd hardcast Nicol "Goddamn but I am a broken friend" Bolas than either of those.
> 
> Not to mention that unlike Emrakul, Iona is literally an instant win against a monocolor deck, as she shuts down your very ability to cast spells at all. The Eldrazi are a necessity just to get around her.


I don't know many control decks that can handle taking 15 damage and losing 6 lands uncounterably.  When it comes to Emrakul, there are actually far more ways to stop an instant or sorcery.  I can list instant speed non-spell removal plus instant speed sacrifice effects a lot faster than I can list all the counterspells in the game.

The reason why they are restricted and he isn't is because if you get to 15 mana it should win you the game.  In type 1 5 mana should win you the game (Tezzeret) and 6 definitely should (Yawgmoth's Bargain / Mind's Desire).    



> Do you have a vague idea how many permanents a red Goblin deck has on the board by the time you can cast Emrakul in any way?
> 
> Hint: think way over a dozen, approaching two dozen. One attack from Emrakul will barely dinge a red deck, which would then reply by either turning up the heat and blowing your noggin off with something like Chandra Nalaar or simply stomp over you with a zerg rush out of fucking nowhere after you used up your resources to get that big useless lump on the board.
> 
> Actually, make that 'any decent swarm deck can stomp you flat before you get Emrakul in play'. Goblins are just the more broken of the lot. And swarm decks ALWAYS have reset buttons in case something hard to handle gets in play. After all, they can recover a lot faster than you from a mass reset of anything, land included. A very typical combo for white was creatures for three turns, then Armageddon the board clean of lands...


Yea, that was a common strategy in 1994.  I don't assume a deck built around Emrakul is going to be 56 lands and 4 of him.  It will probably be 20 solid control cards, 25 lands, and a handful of draw/acceleration.  Psychatog in Type 2 during Odyssey/Onslaught had to deal with Goblins and Madness until it got enough mana to cast 5BUUU, which is probably more difficult than 15 colorless considering cards like Eye of Ugin and the fact that you need 2 specific cards in hand.  



> I'm saying that Emrakul is a card designed to make Timmies happy. It's big and brutal... but fairly limited and useless in scope beyond certain tricks.
> 
> 
> 
> What I am saying is that if a card can be removed from the game with ease, it better be at the very least quick to play. Emrakul just plain isn't quick to play. It's also a creature to boot which makes removal effects even more prone to scrubbing it clean off the game. I'd rather get that turn 2 Marit Lage token (which, that early in the game, is very likely to be lethal outright, especially being black and with over 3 in toughness, which puts it out of range of most creaturekill in the game) than wait until at the very least turn 5 for a halfway decent shot at Emrakul.


Being targetable by spells gives Marit Lage tons of cards that could get it that wouldn't touch Emrakul, and it requires 2 cards together.  It is a much different kind of card, and requires much different setup.  



> And I refuse to touch Saproling decks. Those can stall Emrakul and pretty much anything else without evasion until doomsday, if needed. Goddamn decks churning out 26 tokens per turn...


Saprolings don't fly.


This whole argument is about what is harder to deal with once it is cast, if we take into account casting cost there are dozens of creatures better than Marit Lage, Emrakul, Iona, and Plat Angel.  Iona is the only one approaching his power, and I think taking 15 damage and losing 6 permanents is more difficult to deal with than a 7/7 that gives you 3 turns to find a solution instead of 1.  At the last tournament I went to I killed someone on turn 3 after they got Iona out, and all I had in play was 3 lands when Iona hit.  If it was a hardcast Emrakul I'd have been dead.


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## Lucifeller (Mar 29, 2010)

"Saprolings don't fly" is hardly an argument when there's 56 thousand ways, even in block, to give them flying. That's overlooking how Green specializes in swatting down fliers, making them lose flying, and has a zillion creatures with both deathtouch and reach.



> Iona is the only one approaching his power, and I think taking 15 damage and losing 6 permanents is more difficult to deal with than a 7/7 that gives you 3 turns to find a solution instead of 1. At the last tournament I went to I killed someone on turn 3 after they got Iona out, and all I had in play was 3 lands when Iona hit. If it was a hardcast Emrakul I'd have been dead.



Taking 15 damage and losing 6 permanents (assuming you can get Emrakul past defenses in the first place, since his sacrifice is chosen by the opponent so they can simply save one flier to chumpblock the conspicuously trample-LACKING 75-feet-tall behemoth that should, by all logic, stomp over it) is a LOT easier to deal with than being completely cut off from ever using one color at all. Iona downright murders monocolor decks, where you simply CAN'T find an answer to her because she just shut down your ability to use your spells at all, and severely gimps multi-decks leaning towards a specific color as well. Emrakul, on the other hand, while untargetable by spells is still open to effects of any color, which is a tad bit different than being unable to use a color at all.

Personally, since my meta is rife with mono- and bicolor decks, dealing with Iona in my specific meta is considerably harder to do than dealing with Emrakul. People here pack mass removal all over the place, so it being protected from colors is fairly worthless, but Iona shutting down the colors used in most decks is a whole lot harder to get around. Sure there's the timewalk and the sack 6... assuming it doesn't eat a mass reset or a comes into play ability from a Flashed creature.

Did I mention that thanks to the recently released Phyrexia vs. Coalition deck, Bone Shredder is T2-legal again? It was reprinted in it, and like all theme decks, cards in that vs. deck are Standard-legal in the period they came out.

There's simply too many ways to deal with EMrakul, because all it stops are targeted colored spells on itself, while Iona outright forbids casting spells of a certain color, period. It's why pretty much every deck in the meta needs to have a way to deal with her somewhere, be it sideboard or maindeck. If Iona hits in my current metagame, 99% of the time it's lights out if the color she hoses happens to be the only one in which you have an answer for her. And with the abundance of mono- and bicolor decks I've seen, that 'if' isn't all that unlikely, forcing you to pack removal in at least two colors to take her out.


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## Pyre's Plight (Mar 29, 2010)

And I was honestly thinking of making a narutoverse vs. Nicol Bolas thread a little while ago...

While I'm fairly new to magic, my friend told me that you can Oblivion Ring Emrakul because it doesn't activate until after hitting the field at which point it becomes a permanent.

Snake Form on Marit Lage is hilarious by the way.


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## Lucifeller (Mar 29, 2010)

Pyre's Plight said:


> And I was honestly thinking of making a narutoverse vs. Nicol Bolas thread a little while ago...
> 
> While I'm fairly new to magic, my friend told me that you can Oblivion Ring Emrakul because it doesn't activate until after hitting the field at which point it becomes a permanent.
> 
> Snake Form on Marit Lage is hilarious by the way.



There are also ways to shift a target enchantment from one permanent to another (pay attention to the wording, it's important).

Hm, there's a new version of Sarkhan Vol...


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## randomsurfer (Mar 30, 2010)

sinec when has this page become a mtg spoiler discussion page?


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