# Activision spending $500 million on Destiny marketing and development



## Zaru (May 6, 2014)

> Activision places $500 million bet on its next blockbuster franchise
> 
> Activision Blizzard Inc intends to spend $500 million developing and promoting "Destiny," potentially breaking industry records as it seeks to build the sci-fi role-playing videogame into its next multibillion-dollar franchise.
> 
> ...


http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/05/06/us-activision-destiny-idUSBREA4501F20140506

Saw that on NeoGAF and goddamn that's a lot of money. Sure, it's a "long term plan" and Call of Duty took 4 installments to become the big hit it is now, but they sure are putting a lot of faith in this new franchise just because it's Bungie.

What do you think of this plan? Does Destiny, at its core, have the potential to become such a hit? Can a company just "spend enough on marketing" to make a franchise into a hit like Activision seems to think they can?

I personally haven't even seen much of that marketing yet, aside from the exclusive Destiny "container" at a local gaming convention. Will they bombard us in the coming months?


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## Esura (May 6, 2014)

All that wasted money....

That said, I think Destiny has a good chance of being a decent hit. Doubt it would dethrone CoD but hell I've seen weirder shit in the industry.


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## Zaru (May 6, 2014)

I haven't seen a lot of gameplay but people generally call it a "less unique Borderlands" which doesn't bode well for the sales of the first game.


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## Buskuv (May 6, 2014)

TOO BIG TO FAIL


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## Xiammes (May 6, 2014)

Holy shit what? Destiny is going to need to sell around 8 million copies to get the money back on advertising alone, looks like we are going to get a shit ton of DLC unfortunately.


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## Buskuv (May 6, 2014)

Remember when TOR was supposed to have like 500 planets and still be expanding in 2020?


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## Zaru (May 6, 2014)

Xiammes said:


> Holy shit what? Destiny is going to need to sell around 8 million copies to get the money back on advertising alone, looks like we are going to get a shit ton of DLC unfortunately.



It's not meant for the first game alone. It's for Activision's 10 year plan to build a new megafranchise, since Activision only relies on a handful megafranchises (that also applies to Blizzard, and their main source of money - WoW - is dwindling as well)


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## Death-kun (May 6, 2014)

They're never going to make money on this game.


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## random user (May 6, 2014)

Feels like this number was bloated. Nobody actually gonna go and count.

Then we'll find out it only took 60 mils and everything else went into someone's deep pockets.


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## dream (May 6, 2014)

That's one heck of a budget for a game, here's to hoping that Destiny doesn't crash and burn.


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## Zaru (May 6, 2014)

random user said:


> Feels like this number was bloated. Nobody actually gonna go and count.
> 
> Then we'll find out it only took 60 mils and everything else went into someone's deep pockets.


It's straight outta Kotick's mouth and then confirmed by a spokesperson. 


Dream said:


> That's one heck of a budget for a game, here's to hoping that Destiny doesn't crash and burn.


Let's wait if it's actually a decent game, first. If it sucks then it might as well crash and burn.


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## Death-kun (May 6, 2014)

If all Destiny has going for it is being a watered down Borderlands, then the game is doomed to be a commercial failure. For Activisions' sake, here's hoping there's more to it than that.


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## Jake CENA (May 6, 2014)

Lol who cares


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## Overwatch (May 6, 2014)

It's supposed to have competitive multiplayer, so it should have some leverage over Borderlands.


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## Xiammes (May 6, 2014)

Zaru said:


> It's not meant for the first game alone. It's for Activision's 10 year plan to build a new megafranchise, since Activision only relies on a handful megafranchises (that also applies to Blizzard, and their main source of money - WoW - is dwindling as well)



If its for every game in the series, then its not as ridiculous as I thought. Still that's putting a lot of faith in this game series that we don't know if it will be a flop or not.


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## Overwatch (May 6, 2014)

Xiammes said:


> If its for every game in the series, then its not as ridiculous as I thought. Still that's putting a lot of faith in this game series that we don't know if it will be a flop or not.



Watch_Dogs is supposed to make 6 million sales to recoup it's marketing and deveolpment costs.

This type of horseshit needs to end in general.


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## random user (May 6, 2014)

Zaru said:


> It's straight outta Kotick's mouth and then confirmed by a spokesperson.


Well, usually it's their pockets 

Not saying that this is the case here though. But with movies that happens all the time.

However, just like with movies there are always those few that actually went and spent all those ridiculous money on what they said. This can be gaming's it.


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## Xiammes (May 6, 2014)

Overwatch said:


> Watch_Dogs is supposed to make 6 million sales to recoup it's marketing and deveolpment costs.
> 
> This type of horseshit needs to end in general.



People are spending way to much money on marketing, when a game sells 5 million and considered a failure, thats when you know things are going to far.


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## random user (May 6, 2014)

Well, the marketing is already in the process. We're talking about it, how many people will follow and buy the game now. Probably a lot, much more than without this announcement.

Again, we will never know how much money they will actually spend on it, so far they are just saying this. Mass attention hooked, hype ensues, copies sold.


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## Gunners (May 6, 2014)

I don't understand why so much money is spent on marketing; just allow things to go viral. 500 million is more than twice the budget of Avatar, which was a huge investment by normal filming standards. The companies are going to end up bankrupting themselves, because it will just take one flop to fuck things up; it's not like they're able to sufficiently edge their bets.

I don't know why these same companies don't invest more money in making basic games. A side scrolling action game shouldn't cost more than $500,000 to make. I'm of the belief that their efforts should be put in trying to re-establish the market for such games, as it would be easier to make a profit off of them.


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## Zaru (May 6, 2014)

Gunners said:


> I don't understand why so much money is spent on marketing; just allow things to go viral.



But how can something go viral if there's nothing "special" about it?


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## St. YatōKiri_Kilgharrah (May 6, 2014)

Zaru said:


> It's not meant for the first game alone. It's for Activision's 10 year plan to build a new megafranchise, since Activision only relies on a handful megafranchises (that also applies to Blizzard, and their main source of money - WoW - is dwindling as well)



No its not. Thats too little money for 10 years. This is to get the franchise in the door.

The game's development cpsts alone is 200million dollars


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## Lance (May 6, 2014)

I have my mind set on buying it! And I am guess there are countless others like me. Then Activison sucks you dry with their DLCs so with about 3 installments they will recoup their money. Then after that its profit. That is if this investment is indeed 10yrs planned like some said.


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## Zaru (May 6, 2014)

St NightRazr said:


> No its not. Thats too little money for 10 years. This is to get the franchise in the door.
> 
> The game's development cpsts alone is 200million dollars



Either way it's a shitload of money for something that hasn't been established yet.


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## Lord Yu (May 6, 2014)

Shit like this is why the AAA industry is headed for a crash. There is no way to make money like this.


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## Zaru (May 6, 2014)

They somehow managed to make Skylanders into a cashcow even though I don't know ANYONE who plays/owns something from that franchise. Don't underestimate Activision.


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## dream (May 6, 2014)

Lord Yu said:


> Shit like this is why the AAA industry is headed for a crash. There is no way to make money like this.



Money can be made this way but it definitely is a massive gamble that can backfire badly.


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## Deathbringerpt (May 6, 2014)

Gunners said:


> I don't understand why so much money is spent on marketing



Because the game is incredibly derivative and they need to nail everyone in the head about how awesome and unique it is despite being an overglorified Halo a focus on Multiplayer.

Shit like that doesn't go viral just because they want to.

Anyway, this isn't news. Something like 70% of the budget for Witcher 3 is going to marketing, if you want to include all of the money spent on the product as a whole as a single investment, anyways.


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## Zaru (May 6, 2014)

Deathbringerpt said:


> Anyway, this isn't news.





> potentially breaking industry records



Also more money than any hollywood movie ever. It's an absurd sum spent on the HOPE that it does well in the future.


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## Naruto (May 6, 2014)

You'd think with the advent of the internet and how eager game journalist websites are to have some headlines, advertising would be relatively easy and cheap.

The Souls series sold almost entirely on word of mouth.


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## Zaru (May 6, 2014)

Naruto said:


> You'd think with the advent of the internet and how eager game journalist websites are to have some headlines, advertising would be relatively easy and cheap.
> 
> The Souls series sold almost entirely on word of mouth.



The Souls series didn't actually sell as many copies as the popularity on internet discussion boards would indicate. It was simply made with a lower budget in general, not just marketing. It sold enough to be successful in its own way, but these publishers aren't happy with a "tiny amount of money" like that. I think Jim has a video on that greed.


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## Naruto (May 6, 2014)

Zaru said:


> The Souls series didn't actually sell as many copies as the popularity on internet discussion boards would indicate. It was simply made with a lower budget in general, not just marketing. It sold enough to be successful in its own way, but these publishers aren't happy with a "tiny amount of money" like that. I think Jim has a video on that greed.



I know and it's sort of my point. The reason you see so many Call of Duty clones is because the big publishers are not interested in anything but extreme blockbusters.

So they all shoot for the same thing and they all spend gross amounts of cash when they could be funding a ton of other projects that may not be as commercially successful, but will still be profitable.


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## Xiammes (May 6, 2014)

Dark Souls only sold around 2 and half million Demons Souls is bit behind that, word of mouth can only go so far.


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## Naruto (May 6, 2014)

Xiammes said:


> Dark Souls only sold around 2 and half million Demons Souls is bit behind that, word of mouth can only go so far.



If it cost a tiny percentage to develop, why isn't that good enough? 

If every game is aimed at everyone, you end up with a bunch of soulless, homogenized crap.


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## Platinum (May 6, 2014)

Bungie has the name enough that i'm sure the first installment will sell well enough. Activision is just propagating its cycle of creating monolithic franchises that it fully intends on running into the ground. It is a worrying trend though and is not very sustainable by any big company for long.


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## Canute87 (May 6, 2014)

500 million in marketing for one game?

That 500 million could have been spent on so many more different games the industry would need.


This model cannot last.


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## Deathbringerpt (May 6, 2014)

Canute87 said:


> 500 million in marketing for one game?
> 
> That 500 million could have been spent on so many more different games the industry would need.
> 
> ...



Hey, you gotta spend Cawadooty money to make Cawadooty money. Activision wants dat money.


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## Zaru (May 6, 2014)

Platinum said:


> Bungie has the name enough that i'm sure the first installment will sell well enough. Activision is just propagating its cycle of creating monolithic franchises that it fully intends on running into the ground. It is a worrying trend though and is not very sustainable by any big company for long.



If they ever fail two of those at the same time (they weren't really bothered by running Guitar Hero alone into the ground, for example), their death throes will be unbearable.


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## Deathbringerpt (May 6, 2014)

It's so sad at Harmonix that they actually resorted to Kickstarter to finance a spiritual successor of one of their really old action music games.


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## random user (May 6, 2014)

What was gta5's overall budget?


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## Krory (May 6, 2014)

Lord Yu said:


> Shit like this is why the AAA industry is headed for a crash. There is no way to make money like this.





Dream said:


> Money can be made this way but it definitely is a massive gamble that can backfire badly.



Stuff like this is why companies like Square-Enix called _Tomb Raider_ a failure in sales at fi rst. Even though its sales numbers were actually pretty damn good comparatively, because they threw away so much money on marketing (particularly marketing that really wasn't necessary after a certain point), its validity was called into question.

Of course, they eventually got over their crap... but that's the kind of shit that can kill things.

@Xiammes - Two and a half million can still be pretty decent. It depends on expectations. If the publishers didn't have enormous expectations, like Activision and Square-Enix have, then those numbers can still be good. Generally, if you break a million on a new IP, it's considered big.

Capcom considered Dragon's Dogma at only 1.25 million sales an extraordinary (and surprising) success. Contrarily, they overshot their expectations of DmC and Resident Evil 6.

Microsoft and Remedy both were hugely satisfied with Alan Wake breaking a million two years after its release. Microsoft and Epic both were quite pleased with the Gears of War trilogy reaching 6 million sales across all three games (albeit yes this was on one console, but so was Demon's Souls if I recall), and Gears of War - particularly the third game - has pretty extensive campaigning from Microsoft, beaten out only by their support of Halo.

Hell, EA even still supports games that hugely undersell, having wanted to do sequels to both Bulletstorm and Shadows of the Damned (Epic turned down Bulletstorm, SotD is still MIA).

Which brings up another good one - Kingdoms of Amalur. Now, its sales of - what was it, like 1.3-1.5 million? - were considered _damn_ good because it was a new IP. The problem is they threw away too much on spending, the developer requested too much.

There are so many countless factors as to what numbers can be successful, but the problem therein is that some companies have become extremely obsessed with bringing in what was dubbed as "Call of Duty" numbers.


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## Canute87 (May 6, 2014)

Deathbringerpt said:


> Hey, you gotta spend Cawadooty money to make Cawadooty money. Activision wants dat money.



Games like call of duty started out as regular budgeted games before it became the game that it is,  the same way with GTA series started out small and rose exponentially in popularity after 2 and still it's budget for 5 wasn't half of what Activision is doing now.


You can't always expect that a game will blow up right off the bat just because you throw ridiculous amounts of money after it.  Design the game see the feedback and make the improvements with each iteration.  That's how you create blockbusters.

You don't need call of duty numbers for every game you create, it's pretty much impossible.


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## Deathbringerpt (May 6, 2014)

Canute87 said:


> You don't need call of duty numbers for every game you create, it's pretty much impossible.


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## Death-kun (May 6, 2014)

krory said:


> There are so many countless factors as to what numbers can be successful, but the problem therein is that some companies have become extremely obsessed with bringing in what was dubbed as "Call of Duty" numbers.



The thing is, very few video games can bring in "Call of Duty" numbers. Only stuff like Mario, Grand Theft Auto, and Pokemon can rake in those kinds of numbers consistently. But then again, the latter aren't yearly games. Call of Duty consistently rakes in those numbers every year. 

Most devs that _desperately_ try to reach "Call of Duty" numbers typically fall flat on their faces.


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## Nep Nep (May 6, 2014)

Xiammes said:


> Dark Souls only sold around 2 and half million Demons Souls is bit behind that, word of mouth can only go so far.



Dark Souls didn't spend 500 million USD on marketing though so they actually made their money back. 

Lol, the companies wouldn't need to sell 8 million fucking copies if they got their heads out of their asses and stopped paying money that they fucking know they're not gonna get back. 

It's like Naruto said too they need to stop this bullshit with extreme blockbusters, just make quality games of all genres like before and you'll be fucking fine... 

Seriously just post a video on youtube for advertising..


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## Deathbringerpt (May 6, 2014)

krory said:


> Microsoft and Remedy both were hugely satisfied with Alan Wake breaking a million two years after its release.



Not really, though. There's a reason why Microsoft shitcanned the sequel and froze the franchise. The thing is that Remedy has this unusual good relationship with Microsoft (Probably because of Remedy's tendency for making *actual* cinematic games) and they ended up selling the IP back to them without much problem, allowing Remedy to self publish on PC (Making REALLY good profits for themselves at that).

They just ditched the franchise after it sold lukewarm numbers, even if they didn't kill the series, per se. They had high expectations. 



krory said:


> Hell, EA even still supports games that hugely undersell, having wanted to do sequels to both Bulletstorm and Shadows of the Damned (Epic turned down Bulletstorm, SotD is still MIA).



As far as I know Epic WANTED to do a sequel, regardless of sales, they said in an interview they wanted a second game regardless of sales numbers and EA shitcanned that idea. Dunno about Shadows of the Damned, although I'm pretty sure they were expecting another Resident Evil success or something. Game's kinda shitty anyway, no lost love there.

You're right about Capcom's perception of Dragon's Dogma, even to the lengths of expanding the IP with spinoffs and shit, like that Vita/Mobile crap, which is why I hope they're going to allow Itsuno to make a sequel for the current generation.


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## Zaru (May 6, 2014)

Imagine, for a second, Dragon's Dogma with decent image quality and 60 fps.


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## Naruto (May 6, 2014)

Zaru said:


> Imagine, for a second, Dragon's Dogma with decent image quality and 60 fps.



The terrible framerate is why I stopped playing DD.

In wide open spaces it just got awful.


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## Inuhanyou (May 6, 2014)

I think publishers should die. Yes they are mostly the reason why bigger budget games exist, but there's gotta be another option. Right now they are happy with killing themselves and the market with their increasingly excessive and bloated spending


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## Krory (May 6, 2014)

Deathbringerpt said:


> Not really, though. There's a reason why Microsoft shitcanned the sequel and froze the franchise. The thing is that Remedy has this unusual good relationship with Microsoft (Probably because of Remedy's tendency for making *actual* cinematic games) and they ended up selling the IP back to them without much problem, allowing Remedy to self publish on PC (Making REALLY good profits for themselves at that).
> 
> They just ditched the franchise after it sold lukewarm numbers, even if they didn't kill the series, per se. They had high expectations.



Which doesn't make a lot of sense since they still put out American Nightmare and Remedy themselves said they weren't in the "state of mind" to work on the sequel yet and want to step away.




> As far as I know Epic WANTED to do a sequel, regardless of sales, they said in an interview they wanted a second game regardless of sales numbers and EA shitcanned that idea. Dunno about Shadows of the Damned, although I'm pretty sure they were expecting another Resident Evil success or something. Game's kinda shitty anyway, no lost love there.
> 
> You're right about Capcom's perception of Dragon's Dogma, even to the lengths of expanding the IP with spinoffs and shit, like that Vita/Mobile crap, which is why I hope they're going to allow Itsuno to make a sequel for the current generation.



I recall Mike Capps saying they put People Can Fly on Bulletstorm 2 initially, but canned it themselves to put the developer on Gears of War: Judgment instead. Really, it's not uncharacteristic of them - they can't seem to make up their minds. A year ago they were saying mobile games were the way of the future and anyone not getting into it are going to die out, they've regularly trashed PC after relying on it for their success for so long, and just two months ago (in March) they said there's no plans for Unreal Tournament in the future yet just a few days ago we get, "GUESS WHAT?! UT4 BABY!" Someone needs to start filtering ADD medication into Epic's coffee because they can't keep focused on one project and can't figure out where to put their resources - it's no wonder even a douchebag like Cliff left and even Rod Fergusson dropped all association with Gears of War until it finally left Epic hands. Hell, the biggest people of People Can Fly - those that started the company - left the developer after the shift to Gears of War: Judgment to form their own smaller group, The Astronauts. Epic is like a little kid with too many toys and doesn't know what to do with them all besides cash in on their engine. I mean, it's been three years for Fortnite, a glorified TD game, and then they went the F2P-microtransaction route (also the "wave of the future," like mobile games).

When the news of the Dragon's Dogma IP expansion was announced, I remember Itsuno talking about the sequel quite favorably. It seems he had a lot planned (he also said they had to cut out about a quarter of the world he wanted in the game because of deadlines, as well as some gameplay options that he couldn't get working - one example was running along larger enemies). Admittedly, I haven't heard anything regarding the sequel since then and for all we know, Dark Arisen could've been most of the stuff cut out... but alas. I wouldn't rule it out yet.


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## Death Certificate (May 6, 2014)

> To break even, Activision would have to sell about 15 million to 16 million units of a $60 game, analysts said


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## Deathbringerpt (May 6, 2014)

krory said:


> Which doesn't make a lot of sense since they still put out American Nightmare and Remedy themselves said they weren't in the "state of mind" to work on the sequel yet and want to step away.





It was basically "No one wanted to fund Alan Wake 2 after we got the rights back and Microsoft is willing to fund us another original game so fuck it, Quantum Break it is". He still wants to make the damn game. Hope they manage it someday.

And American's Nightmare was an incredibly small, arcade-ish game, I doubt the investment was anything that made them think twice about it.



krory said:


> I recall Mike Capps saying they put People Can Fly on Bulletstorm 2 initially, but canned it themselves to put the developer on Gears of War: Judgment instead. Really, it's not uncharacteristic of them - they can't seem to make up their minds. A year ago they were saying mobile games were the way of the future and anyone not getting into it are going to die out, they've regularly trashed PC after relying on it for their success for so long, and just two months ago (in March) they said there's no plans for Unreal Tournament in the future yet just a few days ago we get, "GUESS WHAT?! UT4 BABY!" Someone needs to start filtering ADD medication into Epic's coffee because they can't keep focused on one project and can't figure out where to put their resources - it's no wonder even a douchebag like Cliff left and even Rod Fergusson dropped all association with Gears of War until it finally left Epic hands. Hell, the biggest people of People Can Fly - those that started the company - left the developer after the shift to Gears of War: Judgment to form their own smaller group, The Astronauts. Epic is like a little kid with too many toys and doesn't know what to do with them all besides cash in on their engine. I mean, it's been three years for Fortnite, a glorified TD game, and then they went the F2P-microtransaction route (also the "wave of the future," like mobile games).



Well, that's hilarious. Didn't know that, to be honest. Don't really care about Epic as a company these days, same about most of their games too. Although I'm still pretty sure the lack of more Bulletstorm is mostly because of poor sales.



krory said:


> When the news of the Dragon's Dogma IP expansion was announced, I remember Itsuno talking about the sequel quite favorably. It seems he had a lot planned (he also said they had to cut out about a quarter of the world he wanted in the game because of deadlines, as well as some gameplay options that he couldn't get working - one example was running along larger enemies). Admittedly, I haven't heard anything regarding the sequel since then and for all we know, Dark Arisen could've been most of the stuff cut out... but alas. I wouldn't rule it out yet.





Guy wants to make all kinds of sequels and original stuff at Capcom, Dragon's Dogma 2 being one of them. He seems to be one of the few developers there in the company's good graces so maybe he'll do some of them. Here's hoping.


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## Krory (May 6, 2014)

Did some more looking into on Bulletstorm.

Epic said they did not turn a profit on the game, it sold just under a million apparently (again, most _normal_ companies will say 1 million is the "good" mark for a new IP). I forgot the hilarity that they blamed its poor sales on PC piracy. Apparently, Epic admitted the PC port was subpar but thinks that was not the real cause of poor PC sales - that it was because of pirates. You can't tell, but I just pissed myself laughing.

Also, People Can Fly *did* want to do the Bullestorm sequel and it was on track, but the higher-ups at Epic like Mike Capps and Mark Rein shelved the project in favor of Judgment. Mike Capps claims, "Oh yeah, I totally want a sequel! ...but it's not happening. I blame you, Pirates."

Capps even admitted that from a "sales perspective", it was good... but not good enough. Capps does also say he thinks EA was expecting more, but no word that EA said no to the sequel.





I like watching Epic flounder and crash and burn. I never thought I'd say I'm glad Microsoft obtained the rights to Gears of War and Epic isn't allowed to touch it anymore. I still liked Judgment but Epic was clearly grasping at straws and had (or has) no passion for anything anymore.

On the topic of Remedy and Alan Wake, that was my mistake, I misread the original quote. Yeah, they couldn't secure the funding and Sam Lake didn't want to "settle" and do something "less ambitious" and more within their means for a sequel. Judging from his statement last year, it sounds like he's still interested and they just have to do it "when the time is right." I hope it's not completely out of the realm of possibility but really with how things ended, I guess I'd be okay.


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## Krory (May 6, 2014)

Also, on the Shadows of the Damned thing... it was Akira Yamaoka that "confirmed" interest in Shadows of the Damned 2, at one point flat-out saying "Yes" about EA backing a sequel.



> "I’m thinking of a sequel, actually," he told Eurogamer. "I can’t tell you here, but clearly I’d like to."
> 
> When asked whether EA would actually back a sequel, he tried to be vague before ostensibly confirming it would: "Probably ... Well, yes."





Though this was over two years ago and as far as I can tell, literally no news since then.

EDIT: And more details on Kingdoms of Amalur (as if anyone who was engrossed in that drama could truly forget), it apparently sold 1.2 million in a 90-day period but needed to sell 3 million just to break even.


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## Jon Snow (May 6, 2014)

you could fix the world with $500 million

fuck this shit


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## Canute87 (May 6, 2014)

You know if call of duty stops getting popular that's literally it for activision.

Because this only shows their recklessness when it comes to finance.


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## St. YatōKiri_Kilgharrah (May 6, 2014)

Canute87 said:


> You know if call of duty stops getting popular that's literally it for activision.
> 
> Because this only shows their recklessness when it comes to finance.



Not really.

They own skylanders, blizzard and various other franchises


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## St. YatōKiri_Kilgharrah (May 6, 2014)

random user said:


> What was gta5's overall budget?



$265 million


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