# Mihawk vs. Jozu



## Shanks (Oct 22, 2016)

IC
Dressrosa
30 metres
Both MF version


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## barreltheif (Oct 22, 2016)

Low-end mid diff. The diamond makes Jozu a slightly bad matchup for swordsmen, hence why it's not low diff.

Reactions: Like 1


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## ShadoLord (Oct 22, 2016)

Mihawk one shots.

Reactions: Like 1


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## gajoobwalrus (Oct 23, 2016)

Mihawk high diffs. Mihawk is pretty up there, above Jozu. But Jozu is a bad match up for Mihawk. 
I personally think Mihawk is just below admirals in strength, & Jozu's held his own with Kuzan pretty decently

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## giantbiceps (Oct 23, 2016)

Could go either way with extreme-diff.

Both are Top Commander level.

Reactions: Winner 1 | Disagree 2 | Dislike 2


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## drew8324 (Oct 23, 2016)

Mihawk low-diff

Reactions: Like 1


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## Quipchaque (Oct 23, 2016)

Mihawk lower end of high-diff. I don´t think Jozu is that weak that you can just breath past him without serious firepower especially if it´s concerning swordsmen. His haki is probably up there as well given that he is high-end commander and all about tanking and brute force in general.

Reactions: Like 2 | Disagree 1


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## Geralt-Singh (Oct 23, 2016)

Mihawk ( high ) mid diff.

Reactions: Like 1 | Disagree 1


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## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Oct 23, 2016)

I was always under the impression that Mihawk could have been a Yonko if he wanted. A situation like Garp. Giving this to Mihawk.

Reactions: Like 5 | Optimistic 1


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## Nekochako (Oct 23, 2016)

Mihawk mid diff.

Reactions: Like 1 | Dislike 1


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## Roronoa Zoro (Oct 23, 2016)

The thing is we are going to get more and more powerful characters popping up as the story progresses, but Mihawk is reserved for the end. Mihawk can't cap out at top Yonko commander level. That would mean current Luffy actually has a decent chance of beating him. It's ridiculous to believe with hundreds of chapters left that Luffy at this point can pose a threat to Zoro's end goal. The man who dueled Shanks and has a World's Strongest/Greatest title. Ridiculous.

Anyways, Mihawk wins.

Reactions: Like 4 | Agree 2


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## featherine augustus (Oct 23, 2016)

Mihawk by HYPE

Reactions: Like 1


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## Shanks (Oct 23, 2016)

Well yeah, Mihawk is strong, but most people here seem to not consider match up.

Should be high to very high dif


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## savior2005 (Oct 23, 2016)

mihawk couldnt even beat vista. jozu wins mid diff

Reactions: Disagree 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Dunno (Oct 23, 2016)

Josh said:


> Well yeah, Mihawk is strong, but most people here seem to not consider match up.
> 
> Should be high to very high dif



Would you "consider the match up" if this was Shanks vs Jozu?

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Creative 1


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## Deleted member 211714 (Oct 23, 2016)

Definitely not low-diff. Mihawk will need to get into close range in order to combat Jozu effectively. Jozu's diamond should still be able to somewhat negate the power of Mihawk's slashes in close range, as I still think his Haki is strong enough (albeit not superior) to compete with Mihawk. Jozu is also physically stronger and would likely push back a clashing Mihawk with the sheer power of his physical strikes, making it more difficult for the latter to land a blow.

Would be closer to high-diff at least, if not high-diff because of match-up


@drew8324 It didn't take a considerable amount of effort to stop. The anime portrayed the scene much differently. In the manga, Jozu stopped Mihawk's slash rather casually. And there's no reason to think Mihawk is much faster than Jozu. Based on feats, Jozu is actually faster than Mihawk.

Reactions: Like 1


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## xmysticgohanx (Oct 23, 2016)

Mihawk just needs to *change the breath of his swing*. You can see this in action when Mihawk aimed an air slash at Luffy which Daz Bones intercepted with no problem. Zoro's air slash vs Fujitora did way better than that. Anyway, Mihawk proceeds to one shot Daz Bones after changing the breath of his swing. Swordsmen have to change how they swing to cut steel or diamond. It is not automatic.

If Zoro aimed an air slash at Kaido, Daz Bones would be able to intercept it with no problems. If Zoro aimed it at Daz Bones, Daz Bones will wake up 37 hours later in the middle of Wano.

Mihawk wins, idc about the difficulty

Reactions: Like 1


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## Gohara (Oct 23, 2016)

Mihawk wins with mid to high (closer to mid than high) difficulty IMO.


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## Shanks (Oct 24, 2016)

Dunno said:


> Would you "consider the match up" if this was Shanks vs Jozu?



Of course. The dude with the strongest haki in the world should be able to cut diamond, no problem.


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## Dunno (Oct 24, 2016)

Josh said:


> The dude with the strongest haki in the world should be able to cut diamond, no problem.



Then how is this fight a high diff one?


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## drew8324 (Oct 24, 2016)

Seraphoenix said:


> Jozu being pushed back was anime-only iirc


But the strain was Canon right?


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## Nidai Kitetsu (Oct 24, 2016)

Mihawk mid-diffs.


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## barreltheif (Oct 24, 2016)

Thinking more about this, I don't think it's a bad matchup for Mihawk. Just because Jozu is a terrible matchup for weaker swordsmen doesn't mean he's a bad matchup for swordsmen who can cut diamond. As long as using the right breath for cutting diamond doesn't take a lot of effort for Mihawk, this is probably a low diff fight.


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## Bogard (Oct 24, 2016)

It's unknown if Mihawk can cut diamond. Jozu could block his range slash when it wasn't aimed at him though. Not sure if Mihawk can feel his breath and cut it. With the introduction of armament however, it's not necessary depending on its strength considering armament allows to hit the real body, so Mihawk would just need to cut his real body with a strong armament attack to win.

Jozu however seems to be a armament specialist considering he could make Kuzan tangible, but due to how vital armament has been portrayed in swordsmanship lately and Mihawk's standing in the manga, i'd bet he has superior armament. The war of the best showed yonko commanders could hold their own against top tiers.

With Jozu's stats, he should be able to fend off Mihawk for quite some time, but will eventually most likely fall prey from Mihawk's lethal attacks, maybe after a mid difficulty fight. The distance seems adequate in perspective of end of serie. After all the yonko commanders are currently starting to be fleshed out more and more and appear to be in the league with guys in the worst generation when Mihawk is an end of serie opponent, someone in possession of one of the rarest world titles in this manga, portrayed to be on the level with a yonko(as well as primarily protagonist's idol) and end game goal of the secondarily main character.


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## Shanks (Oct 24, 2016)

Dunno said:


> Then how is this fight a high diff one?


Cuz Mohawk ain't Shanks


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## Seraphoenix (Oct 24, 2016)

drew8324 said:


> But the strain was Canon right?



There was no strain, the anime made that up to hype Mihawk:



As you can see Jozu didn't get a scratch on him. Mihawk might be able to cut diamond, but based on the manga it's a bit shaky.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Deleted member 211714 (Oct 24, 2016)

barreltheif said:


> Thinking more about this, I don't think it's a bad matchup for Mihawk. Just because Jozu is a terrible matchup for weaker swordsmen doesn't mean he's a bad matchup for swordsmen who can cut diamond. As long as using the right breath for cutting diamond doesn't take a lot of effort for Mihawk, this is probably a low diff fight.



Can Mihawk cut diamond?


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Oct 24, 2016)

King Itachi said:


> Can Mihawk cut diamond?



He can cut anything.


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## Dunno (Oct 25, 2016)

Josh said:


> Cuz Mohawk ain't Shanks


That is true, but what does it have to do with you earlier statement?



Seraphoenix said:


> There was no strain, the anime made that up to hype Mihawk:
> 
> 
> 
> As you can see Jozu didn't get a scratch on him. Mihawk might be able to cut diamond, but based on the manga it's a bit shaky.



This is directed to everyone who believes that Luffy bruised Fujitora: Take a look at the bottom left panel of the page linked. You can clearly see that Jozu has at least three marks of the exact same type as Fujitora had. Do you believe that Jozu got bruised by Mihawk's slash as well? Isn't it way more likely that these kinds of marks that disappear instantly are merely spots of dust?

Reactions: Like 1


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## Gohara (Oct 25, 2016)

@ Seraphoenix.

I often agree with you but I respectfully disagree with you here.  Jozu bracing for Mihawk's technique and Jozu's stance suggest that it wasn't easy for him to deflect Mihawk's technique IMO.

Plus, it was a one handed swing from a far away standing Mihawk.  If Jozu had to brace for Mihawk's technique and wrestle the technique to deflect it, then Mihawk can likely cut through diamond.


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## xmysticgohanx (Oct 25, 2016)

Mihawk can cut diamond. His swing wasn't the correct breath there since it was aimed at WB. It's kinda like if Mihawk didn't use CoA vs a logia


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## Amol (Oct 25, 2016)

Usually Mihawk would mid diff character of Jozu's caliber.
But Jozu being in general bad match up for Swordsman here Mihawk would require solid High diff to win .


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## Seraphoenix (Oct 25, 2016)

Gohara said:


> @ Seraphoenix.
> 
> I often agree with you but I respectfully disagree with you here.  Jozu bracing for Mihawk's technique and Jozu's stance suggest that it wasn't easy for him to deflect Mihawk's technique IMO.
> 
> Plus, it was a one handed swing from a far away standing Mihawk.  If Jozu had to brace for Mihawk's technique and wrestle the technique to deflect it, then Mihawk can likely cut through diamond.



Am I missing something? We can't see his stance in that panel. All we see is the slash, then Jozu jumps off the ship, then the slash dissipates and Jozu is left with no injuries. There is no indication that he struggled. That's anime embellishment.

That was not some mickey mouse slash. It was intended for WB and Jozu shrugged it off.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Captain Altintop (Oct 25, 2016)

Jozu, Vista, Doffy, Jack are the typical No. 3-4 while Marco, Beckman, Shiliew ... are the No. 2 <=> the Vice / 1.Officier.
Mihawk should be able to beat a No.3 with mid ( mid ) diff, but considering the matchup he'd need *mid ( high )* diff.


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## Gohara (Oct 25, 2016)

@ Seraphoenix.

In the top left panel you can see Jozu's stance.  In one of the bottom right panels you can see Jozu bracing for Mihawk's technique.

I agree that Mihawk's technique didn't land any notable damage on Jozu, although there are some marks.  I'm just saying that the Anime scene isn't entirely an exaggeration of what happened.

Mihawk stated that he wanted to see the distance between him and Old Whitebeard.  That doesn't necessarily require him to use one of his most powerful techniques.  Either way, I think that we can both agree that a technique from a Mihawk using both hands or a technique from a Mihawk at point blank range would be more powerful than what he used against Jozu, let alone if it's a technique from a Mihawk using both hands at point blank range.


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## barreltheif (Oct 26, 2016)

Seraphoenix said:


> There was no strain, the anime made that up to hype Mihawk:
> As you can see Jozu didn't get a scratch on him. Mihawk might be able to cut diamond, but based on the manga it's a bit shaky.



Do you think it's shaky whether Mihawk can cut steel, since his slash didn't initially cut Mr. 1?
You're forgetting how swordsmanship works in One Piece. Power isn't how you cut through tough materials. You have to match the "breath" of the material. A slash that isn't meant to cut diamond will never cut diamond, no matter how powerful it is.



Amol said:


> Usually Mihawk would mid diff character of Jozu's caliber.
> But Jozu being in general bad match up for Swordsman here Mihawk would require solid High diff to win .



I initially thought this, but then I realized that it doesn't make much sense. Jozu is a bad matchup for swordsmen who struggle to cut diamond, but not for swordsmen who can cut diamond. Steel people like Mr. 1 were a bad matchup for Zoro before he could cut steel. But after he learned how, it's not he'd struggle against them any more than a non-swordsmen on Zoro's level would.
So I'm pretty sure Mihawk will only need low diff, not mid diff.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Disagree 1


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## Seraphoenix (Oct 26, 2016)

Gohara said:


> @ Seraphoenix.
> 
> In the top left panel you can see Jozu's stance.  In one of the bottom right panels you can see Jozu bracing for Mihawk's technique.
> 
> ...



I don't think you are looking at these panels. confirmation bias is a thing. Jozu jumps off the ship, blocks Mihawks attack and then is shown with no wounds. There is no ''bracing''.



barreltheif said:


> Do you think it's shaky whether Mihawk can cut steel, since his slash didn't initially cut Mr. 1?
> You're forgetting how swordsmanship works in One Piece. Power isn't how you cut through tough materials. You have to match the "breath" of the material. A slash that isn't meant to cut diamond will never cut diamond, no matter how powerful it is.
> .



Steel is different from diamond. diamond is the hardest naturally occurring substance on earth. You're basically saying '' This guy cut through butter I'm sure he can cut through concrete'' which is pretty stupid. Until Mihawk shows he can cut through the hardest substance, he can't. Miss me with hype when the guy was given Commanders to stalemate him.


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## drew8324 (Oct 26, 2016)

Seraphoenix said:


> I don't think you are looking at these panels. confirmation bias is a thing. Jozu jumps off the ship, blocks Mihawks attack and then is shown with no wounds. There is no ''bracing''.
> 
> 
> 
> Steel is different from diamond. diamond is the hardest naturally occurring substance on earth. You're basically saying '' This guy cut through butter I'm sure he can cut through concrete'' which is pretty stupid. Until Mihawk shows he can cut through the hardest substance, he can't. Miss me with hype when the guy was given Commanders to stalemate him.



Well Karaseki is WAY harder than diamond in One Piece. And we must think. How can people make diamond jewels in one piece if top tiers (who are easily island level+ can't cut them) It doesn't make sense how people can manufacture and form if only like 10 people or under can cut it.

To me its ridiculous. I mean sure Zoro was breaking steel before he cut Mr.1  and he then learned how to cut it like normal materials, I'll let that pass. But it doesn't make sense to me how his Captain at the time broke through SOLID bedrock and sent buildings toppling and Zoro wouldn't be able to touch me if I had a Diamond shield. Like think about it, since CP9 arc they've been able to casually send AIR VACUUMS that cut all in the path and a big May weather diamond ring would would be impassable


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## barreltheif (Oct 26, 2016)

Seraphoenix said:


> Steel is different from diamond. diamond is the hardest naturally occurring substance on earth. You're basically saying '' This guy cut through butter I'm sure he can cut through concrete'' which is pretty stupid. Until Mihawk shows he can cut through the hardest substance, he can't. Miss me with hype when the guy was given Commanders to stalemate him.



You didn't understand my post. I wasn't talking about whether or not Mihawk can cut diamond. I was explaining that regardless of whether he can, a slash that's not intended to cut diamond never will, no matter how powerful it is.

Needless to say, the strongest swordsman in the world can cut diamond. This isn't something that needs to be debated. The question was whether it takes significant effort from Mihawk. Going by what we've seen of Zoro, once a swordsman learns how to match the breath of a material, it doesn't take a lot of energy or effort to do it.


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## Gohara (Oct 27, 2016)

@ Seraphoenix.



Jozu braces for the technique in that panel.



You can see Jozu's stance in that panel.



You can see some marks on Jozu.  Not that I think marks are a big deal.  I'm also not saying that it necessarily indicates that Mihawk is far more powerful than Jozu.

I'm just saying that it's not like Jozu did this:



Jozu wasn't notably damaged by Mihawk's technique, but it also wasn't anything like what Goku did against Frieza.


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## Nidai Kitetsu (Oct 27, 2016)

Long distance slashes are weaker than direct slashes as we have seen in Zoro vs Pica when Zoro thought his slash wont have enough power to cut Pica's golem from a long distance.

I am pretty sure Mihawk can cut diamond when his student Zoro claimed in Dressrosa _there is nothing he cant cut_ and another swordsman of Zoro's generation, Law, can split/cut kairoseki.

Moreover, we need to know whether haki can bypass the diamond properties of Jozu's fruit (that I highly doubt) and hit his real body. Then the whole "ability to cut diamond" debate will become meaningless.


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## Monstar6 (Oct 27, 2016)

Nidai Kitetsu said:


> Moreover, we need to know whether haki can bypass the diamond properties of Jozu's fruit (that I highly doubt) and hit his real body. Then the whole "ability to cut diamond" debate will become meaningless.



It can. That the whole point of haki: "Touching the real body"


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## featherine augustus (Oct 27, 2016)

Monstar6 said:


> It can. That the whole point of haki: "Touching the real body"



Haki means you can hurt a devil fruit user especially against a logia type. But that doesn't means it can completely bypass devil fruits abilities.If jozu's daimond body is harder than haki then it is useless.A good example is luffy vs caeser where luffy's haki clad bazooka was decaying when in it was in contact with poison gas.


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## Monstar6 (Oct 27, 2016)

featherine augustus said:


> Haki means you can hurt a devil fruit user especially against a logia type. But that doesn't means it can completely bypass devil fruits abilities.If jozu's daimond body is harder than haki then it is useless.A good example is luffy vs caeser where luffy's haki clad bazooka was decaying when in it was in contact with poison gas.


Haki does not work only on logia but in every people who have their real body protect by their  devil fruit ability. Which includes the paramecia like Luffy or Joz.

So if someone use the good amount of haki he can cut throught diamond.


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## Yuki (Oct 27, 2016)

Haki does not nullify DFs. >_> This is shown multiple times but mostly when Luffy punched CC and said hits landed, or when Luffy grabbed CC even though CC's body was all over the place.

Haki allows one to touch logia's despite their bodies being an intangible element. It allows blunt uses to hurt Luffy because haki hurts everyone. Luffy's body still protects him from the blunt impact force of the attack.

Jozu will feel a slash from Mihawk, but it's not cutting him. His body is still diamond, and until stated, haki does not grant a sword special cutting power. Mihawk said haki was to protect the sword from damage. He didn't say anything about anything else.

Also no, i don't think Shanks would do any better. They both fail to cut him. Shanks may do more damage via stronger haki though. Then again i bet Mihawk can get more attacks off per second as he is the better swordsmen... but idk.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## HawkEye13 (Oct 27, 2016)

Juvia. said:


> Haki does not nullify DFs. >_> This is shown multiple times but mostly when Luffy punched CC and said hits landed, or when Luffy grabbed CC even though CC's body was all over the place.
> 
> Haki allows one to touch logia's despite their bodies being an intangible element. It allows blunt uses to hurt Luffy because haki hurts everyone. Luffy's body still protects him from the blunt impact force of the attack.
> 
> ...

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


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## barreltheif (Oct 27, 2016)

Nidai Kitetsu said:


> Moreover, we need to know whether haki can bypass the diamond properties of Jozu's fruit (that I highly doubt) and hit his real body. Then the whole "ability to cut diamond" debate will become meaningless.



CoA allows you to touch a DF user's real body, rather than whatever substance they're composed of (rubber, fire, ice, etc.).
It doesn't allow you to magically bypass a defence. Mihawk can't make his sword pass through Cracker's biscuit armor or Jozu's diamond coating as if it's not even there.


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## barreltheif (Oct 27, 2016)

Juvia. said:


> Haki does not nullify DFs. >_> This is shown multiple times but mostly when Luffy punched CC and said hits landed, or when Luffy grabbed CC even though CC's body was all over the place.
> Haki allows one to touch logia's despite their bodies being an intangible element. *It allows blunt uses to hurt Luffy because haki hurts everyone. Luffy's body still protects him from the blunt impact force of the attack.*
> Jozu will feel a slash from Mihawk, but it's not cutting him. His body is still diamond, and until stated, haki does not grant a sword special cutting power. Mihawk said haki was to protect the sword from damage. He didn't say anything about anything else.
> Also no, i don't think Shanks would do any better. They both fail to cut him. Shanks may do more damage via stronger haki though. Then again i bet Mihawk can get more attacks off per second as he is the better swordsmen... but idk.



No. The haki is what allows people to touch Luffy. The force of the blow is what hurts Luffy. A stronger punch will hurt Luffy more than a weaker punch.
Same for sword attacks. Hakified slashes against a logia do damage because of the slash, not because of the haki. The haki is what allows them to hit the logia.


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## xmysticgohanx (Oct 27, 2016)

haki adds power too though. the formula for damage would be:

Strength * acceleration * CoA amount * CoA mastery

the last one is the least important e.g. Vergo


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## Yuki (Oct 28, 2016)

barreltheif said:


> No. The haki is what allows people to touch Luffy. The force of the blow is what hurts Luffy. A stronger punch will hurt Luffy more than a weaker punch.
> Same for sword attacks. Hakified slashes against a logia do damage because of the slash, not because of the haki. The haki is what allows them to hit the logia.



Of course a stronger force would hurt Luffy more. But it does not stop his body from being rubber and bouncing back like it always does. Just like when Luffy hit CC, it did not stop CC from being gas, CCs body did not magically return to that of a normal human. He stayed in his gas form with his body being all over the place. Same thing with Smoker when he got Laws heart back, his body was still all over the place despite being hit by Vergo.

Luffy will still feel less damage than anyone else when it comes to a blunt force attack no matter who does it or the haki. This is assuming they are on Luffy's level of course. (The one taking the hit.) 

Haki is not BBs DF, the DF user dose not lose their abilities of the defense granted by said abilities. Luffy's G4 and what happened with DD shows this further if you want something on Luffy's own behalf.


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## Etherborn (Oct 28, 2016)

This thread.
2k16.
Rofl.


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## Seraphoenix (Oct 28, 2016)

drew8324 said:


> *Well Karaseki is WAY harder than diamond in One Piece*. And we must think. *How can people make diamond jewels in one piece if top tiers (who are easily island level+ can't cut them) It doesn't make sense how people can manufacture and form if only like 10 people or under can cut it.*
> 
> To me its ridiculous. I mean sure Zoro was breaking steel before he cut Mr.1  and he then learned how to cut it like normal materials, I'll let that pass. But it doesn't make sense to me how his Captain at the time broke through SOLID bedrock and sent buildings toppling and Zoro wouldn't be able to touch me if I had a Diamond shield. Like think about it, since CP9 arc they've been able to casually send AIR VACUUMS that cut all in the path and a big May weather diamond ring would would be impassable



They might do what they do in real life; namely use a diamond to cut another diamond.

Also Seastone is not way harder than diamond; it's the same strength:





barreltheif said:


> You didn't understand my post. I wasn't talking about whether or not Mihawk can cut diamond. I was explaining that regardless of whether he can, a slash that's not intended to cut diamond never will, no matter how powerful it is.
> 
> Needless to say, the strongest swordsman in the world can cut diamond. This isn't something that needs to be debated. The question was whether it takes significant effort from Mihawk. Going by what we've seen of Zoro, once a swordsman learns how to match the breath of a material, it doesn't take a lot of energy or effort to do it.



I understood your post, I just thought what you said is irrelevant. By hype Mihawk might be able to cut diamond, but by feats he can't. He didn't attempt to go after WB again after Jozu blocked him. How do you know Mihawk has found the ''breath'' of diamond. Don't tell me about being WSS, I want feats.

Also it does need to be debated. There is a theory that Shiliew will take Jozu's fruit and that he will kill Mihawk, setting Zoro up to surpass Mihawk by cutting diamond; the hardest substance.



Gohara said:


> @ Seraphoenix.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



He wasn't damaged at all that's the point. A scuff mark means nothing. In the panel you posted it doesn't even seem like Jozu moved at all.


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## xmysticgohanx (Oct 28, 2016)

Seraphoenix said:


> They might do what they do in real life; namely use a diamond to cut another diamond.
> 
> Also Seastone is not way harder than diamond; it's the same strength:
> 
> ...


 Can you pull up that panel in Viz for me? mangalife.org


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## Seraphoenix (Oct 28, 2016)

xmysticgohanx said:


> Can you pull up that panel in Viz for me? mangalife.org



As you wish:

Reactions: Like 1


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## Nidai Kitetsu (Oct 28, 2016)

Law can split/cut (however you want to call it) kairoseki.

Forget about Mihawk, there is a high possibility Zoro can cut diamond at this point.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Yuki (Oct 28, 2016)

Nidai Kitetsu said:


> Law can split/cut (however you want to call it) kairoseki.
> 
> Forget about Mihawk, there is a high possibility Zoro can cut diamond at this point.



Law can do it because his DF allows him to cut anything. >_> Legit wut.


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## Nidai Kitetsu (Oct 28, 2016)

Juvia. said:


> Law can do it because his DF allows him to cut anything. >_> Legit wut.


It will be terrible writing when someone with a sword (regardless of his devil fruit) can cut kairoseki, but world's strongest swordsman cant.


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## Yuki (Oct 28, 2016)

Nidai Kitetsu said:


> It will be terrible writing when someone with a sword (regardless of his devil fruit) can cut kairoseki, but world's strongest swordsman cant.



Not really... Laws DF allows him to cut anything. Does Mihawk have that same power? Nope. Pre skip Law could do the same thing. Newbie Law probably could as well. It's what his DF does. It's the DFs entire point. 

Maybe you need to go read a shitty manga to really see what bad writing is.


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## Nidai Kitetsu (Oct 28, 2016)

Juvia. said:


> Not really... Laws DF allows him to cut anything. Does Mihawk have that same power? Nope. Pre skip Law could do the same thing. Newbie Law probably could as well. It's what his DF does. It's the DFs entire point.
> 
> Maybe you need to go read a shitty manga to really see what bad writing is.


Oda should give Law world's strongest swordsman title then. 

Anyway, you will not understand, so lets agree to disagree.


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## Yuki (Oct 28, 2016)

Nidai Kitetsu said:


> Oda should give Law world's strongest swordsman title then.
> 
> Anyway, you will not understand, so lets agree to disagree.



>_> I'm pretty sure it's you that fails to understand something pretty damn simple. >_>

> "Oh look, Luffy can no sell lightning attacks. That must mean Whitebeared can do it as well as he is the worlds strongest man."

> "Oh look, Brook can't die, i guess that means that... oh wait... he died."

Yea... That's you right now. >_>

Law cannot cut kairoseki, he separates it with his DF... a completely different thing...


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## Nidai Kitetsu (Oct 28, 2016)

Juvia. said:


> >_> I'm pretty sure it's you that fails to understand something pretty damn simple. >_>
> 
> > "Oh look, Luffy can no sell lightning attacks. That must mean Whitebeared can do it as well as he is the worlds strongest man."
> 
> ...


Cutting power has been made a big deal in OP from the beginning. You definitely remember about ZorovsMr.1 where he learnt to cut steel or Koshiro's flashback about swordsmen who can cut anything or Mr. 1's dialogue that fueled countless speculation and theories, "are you going to cut a diamond next?" Against Pica, Zoro again said, there is nothing he cant cut. So cutting power had been relevant throughout the story. It was kind of hinted the stronger the swordsman, the tougher object he can cut. If Law can cut objects that nobody else can cut, then he is a prime contender for the WSS title in my view.

As I said, you will not understand.


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## Kaiser (Oct 28, 2016)

Law's ability doesn't cut. It seperates. They may seem similar but not similar at all. Cutting inflicts damage when Law's doesn't. It just rearrange anything within the room. Also, Law may not be able to seperate kairoseki because it counteract with devil fruit powers. He may be able to seperate a normal diamond though assuming the seperating ability of the ope ope no mi really has no limit like it appears to be the case right now


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## Yuki (Oct 28, 2016)

Nidai Kitetsu said:


> Cutting power has been made a big deal in OP from the beginning. You definitely remember about ZorovsMr.1 where he learnt to cut steel or Koshiro's flashback about swordsmen who can cut anything or Mr. 1's dialogue that fueled countless speculation and theories, "are you going to cut a diamond next?" Against Pica, Zoro again said, there is nothing he cant cut. So cutting power had been relevant throughout the story. It was kind of hinted the stronger the swordsman, the tougher object he can cut. If Law can cut objects that nobody else can cut, then he is a prime contender for the WSS title in my view.
> 
> As I said, you will not understand.



Maybe you missed the end of my post... Law does not cut the object with his DF power, he separates it.

Zoro may by EoS learn to cut diamond somehow, but you can't just give Mihawk feats of doing something that is known to be impossible in the real world just coz he holds a title. >_>

So no, i understand just fine... but once again, you clearly do not understand something unbelievably obvious. 



Kaiser said:


> Law's ability doesn't cut. It seperates. They may seem similar but not similar at all. Cutting inflicts damage when Law's doesn't. It just rearrange anything within the room. Also, Law may not be able to seperate kairoseki because it counteract with devil fruit powers. He may be able to seperate a normal diamond though assuming the seperating ability of the ope ope no mi really has no limit like it appears to be the case right now



Law has already used his DF on kairoseki. He cut a Marine ship in half and kairoseki handcuffs.


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## Nidai Kitetsu (Oct 28, 2016)

Juvia. said:


> Maybe you missed the end of my post... Law does not cut the object with his DF power, he separates it.


lmao, you should have started with that part in your first two posts, then I wouldnt replied because we view things way too differently. Splitting and cutting in this context is nearly same to me. Its like Law and Mihawk needs to open a gate of diamond, so the end result is same whether Mihawk cuts it or Law splits it.



Juvia. said:


> Zoro may by EoS learn to cut diamond somehow, but you can't just give Mihawk feats of doing something that is known to be impossible in the real world just coz he holds a title. >_>


I am just saying at this point Zoro probably can cut diamond and thats why its highly unlikely Mihawk cant. And it would be terrible writing in my opinion if Mihawk cant cut diamond when Law can split it.


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## xmysticgohanx (Oct 28, 2016)

@Juvia if Mihawk was able to cut diamond, what diff would you give this fight?


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## Gohara (Oct 28, 2016)

@ Seraphoenix.

My point doesn't have much to do with whether or not Jozu was damaged by Mihawk's technique, though.  I was just saying that it wasn't like he deflected it with ease or anything.  The only thing that the Anime might have added to the scene was it pushing Jozu back but we don't know whether it pushed Jozu back or not.  Either way, Jozu braced for Mihawk's technique and Jozu's stance suggests that it wasn't easy to deflect.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Yuki (Oct 28, 2016)

xmysticgohanx said:


> @Juvia if Mihawk was able to cut diamond, what diff would you give this fight?



Low, because Jozu would try to tank a Slash and Mihawk would cut him in two.


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## Yuki (Oct 28, 2016)

Nidai Kitetsu said:


> lmao, you should have started with that part in your first two posts, then I wouldnt replied because we view things way too differently. Splitting and cutting in this context is nearly same to me. Its like Law and Mihawk needs to open a gate of diamond, so the end result is same whether Mihawk cuts it or Law splits it.
> 
> 
> I am just saying at this point Zoro probably can cut diamond and thats why its highly unlikely Mihawk cant. And it would be terrible writing in my opinion if Mihawk cant cut diamond when Law can split it.



Once again, you can't just bloody gives feats to someone, even more so when said feats are known in the real world to be impossible. 

Diamonds molecules are way to close together for any metal blade to get in between them aka cut them.


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## Nidai Kitetsu (Oct 29, 2016)

Juvia. said:


> Once again, you can't just bloody gives feats to someone, even more so when said feats are known in the real world to be impossible.
> 
> Diamonds molecules are way to close together for any metal blade to get in between them aka cut them.


lol, please dont start a lecture about diamond molecules. 

Did Mihawk cut diamond in the manga? No. So there is nothing to discuss if we only go by feats.


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## Yuki (Oct 29, 2016)

Nidai Kitetsu said:


> lol, please dont start a lecture about diamond molecules.
> 
> Did Mihawk cut diamond in the manga? No. So there is nothing to discuss if we only go by feats.



Not really, Mihawk can still hurt and even defeat someone without cutting them. If a sword does not cut, like someone said in the Daz vs Luffy thread, it's like a bat. Even more so when used with haki.

Feats like this cannot just be assumed or given. It's a god tear feat in any manga to be able to cut diamond. There are manga out there of swordsmen cutting moons in half but still being unable to cut diamond.


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## Nidai Kitetsu (Oct 29, 2016)

Juvia. said:


> Not really, Mihawk can still hurt and even defeat someone without cutting them. If a sword does not cut, like someone said in the Daz vs Luffy thread, it's like a bat. Even more so when used with haki.
> 
> Feats like this cannot just be assumed or given. It's a god tear feat in any manga to be able to cut diamond. There are manga out there of swordsmen cutting moons in half but still being unable to cut diamond.


Meh, you are probably one of those who used to say things like _Big Mom loses to Nami because Nami has more feats _a hundred chapters back.

Btw, which manga are you talking about? Someone can cut moon but failed to cut diamond?


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## Yuki (Oct 29, 2016)

Nidai Kitetsu said:


> Meh, you are probably one of those who used to say things like _Big Mom loses to Nami because Nami has more feats _a hundred chapters back.
> 
> Btw, which manga are you talking about? Someone can cut moon but failed to cut diamond?



Emm... emm no.  

I don't have a fking clue, but in the manga diamonds were on the moon and they were completely uncut unlike the rest of it. Then again this was in a time where Master Roshi could blow up the moon while Demon King piccolo was warn out after destroying a city. 

But none the less, cutting diamond is a god tier feat in any manga and not many manga actually employ it in their manga. 

If fking Zoro can already cut Diamond then why the fk dos a top commander level person have it as a fruit and why the fk would Oda make him lose his mobility when in diamond form . Talk about a useless fruit. There are still people that say Luffy can't get past Jozu's diamond defense never mind Zoro.


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## Nidai Kitetsu (Oct 29, 2016)

Ohhh shit, you are talking about Dragonball. Dont compare DB to OP please. At least Oda tries to follow science somewhat in his manga.



Juvia. said:


> If fking Zoro can already cut Diamond then why the fk dos a top commander level person have it as a fruit



I said there is a possibility Zoro might be able to cut diamond.
(1) Zoro broke Hachi's sword with Onigiri
(2) Couldnt scratch Mr 1 with Onigiri, cut him with Shishi sonson
(3) Couldnt do much against Kuma with Shishi sonson
(4) Post-TS: cut a pacifista without a named attack and Luffy destroyed a pacifista with jet pistol
(5) Luffy failed to do much against Dragon with jet bullet and called its skin hard. Zoro cut it with Shi-shishi sonson

Sword < Mr. 1 < Pacifista < Dragon. If he could cut a metal of Moh 6 back in Alabasta, there is a high possibility he could cut something of Moh 10 (Diamond) at Dressrosa. And just to remind you again, he did say there is nothing he cannot cut.



Juvia. said:


> Talk about a useless fruit. There are still people that say Luffy can't get past Jozu's diamond defense never mind Zoro.



Why are you calling Jozu useless? Jozu probably has the best lifting feat (strength feat) in the entire manga. Croc was also impressed at his speed. And cutting diamond is surely not as easy as cutting melon, Mihawk/Zoro surely need to connect properly to cut diamond which would be pretty tough considering Jozu's speed and haki.

And stop bringing Luffy in every Zoro debate. Luffy is overall slightly stronger than Zoro, but only a Luffy fangirl believes that Luffy is better than him at everything. Zoro will perform better than Luffy against some opponents


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## Yuki (Oct 29, 2016)

No.  I was just using it as an example of what times were like back then when it came to moon busting.

1. So fk?
2. So fk?
3. So fk?
4. So fk?
5. So fk? It's known Zoro offence is far beyond G2.

Zoro said learning how to cut diamond would be pointless. 

DId i say Jozu is useless? Or that his fruit is useless if high tier swordsmen can cut through him?

Also no, if diamond can get chipped it's easy as fk to do it. Just like rock, if you cut into a bit of it the final cut is like cutting through butter. The rock separates it's self from the slightest cut. You don't even need to cut all the way through it, just the beginning skin, the rest of the rock just falls off. Diamond is even more brittle than normal rock.


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## Nidai Kitetsu (Oct 29, 2016)

Juvia. said:


> No.  I was just using it as an example of what times were like back then when it came to moon busting.
> 
> 1. So fk?
> 2. So fk?
> ...


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## Yuki (Oct 29, 2016)

Stop talking about shit you clearly do not know anything about just because you want to give your fav characters feats that need to be earned.

Reactions: Disagree 1 | Dislike 3


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## Quipchaque (Oct 29, 2016)

Regardless of the feats, power-scaling clearly suggests that there are swordsmen that can cut Jozu. Or is anyone seriously going to say that Shanks wouldn´t be able to cut him? Hell no. Same benefit of the doubt should be given to Mihawk given that he stands next to Shanks as an equal.

Heck if we use common sense then we can already see that Jozu is not as tough as the fruit itself suggests. Otherwise who is going to defeat him other than Blackbeard? And why is he only the 3. division commander instead of Yonko captain? Honestly it´s just terrible writing if yonko tier characters can´t defeat a division commander just because of match-ups especially if it´s not even the first mate.


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## Bogard (Oct 29, 2016)

Diamond is the most hyped material in terms of durability outside of poneglyphs. Diamond durability was hyped since Alabasta by Daz Bones. Later on in Enies Lobby even seastones _were compared_ to diamond, not the contrary suggesting that diamond was considered as the reference in terms of durability. And in this yonko story part, Pekoms once again tried to impress Luffy by comparing his turtle shell to diamond with a serious look on his face and surprised Luffy made no reaction at all to him saying that. All that suggest diamond durability is viewed as unique in the one piece world even this late in the story. Whether Mihawk can cut it or not is yet to be seen. Jozu is a devil fruit user though, something different because armament should allow attacks to hit his real body regardless

Reactions: Like 1


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## Monstar6 (Oct 29, 2016)

I wonder which one is the more durable between poneglygh and diamond 
If it happens to be poneglyph that means that the kozuki's family have people who can casually cut diamond


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## Yuki (Oct 29, 2016)

DiscoZoro20 said:


> Regardless of the feats, power-scaling clearly suggests that there are swordsmen that can cut Jozu. Or is anyone seriously going to say that Shanks wouldn´t be able to cut him? Hell no. Same benefit of the doubt should be given to Mihawk given that he stands next to Shanks as an equal.
> 
> Heck if we use common sense then we can already see that Jozu is not as tough as the fruit itself suggests. Otherwise who is going to defeat him other than Blackbeard? And why is he only the 3. division commander instead of Yonko captain? Honestly it´s just terrible writing if yonko tier characters can´t defeat a division commander just because of match-ups especially if it´s not even the first mate.



I already said that Shanks can't cut him either without feats. I love the way Mihawk fans bring up Shanks in every Mihawk vs thread saying. "Well you think Shanks blah blah blah can do it so Mihawk can do it too." Like seriously, no i fking don't. 

I never said they cannot hurt him, i even say in this thread that both should be capable of hurting him. If you can hurt someone you can defeat said someone.

You cannot give characters top tier feats they have not earned.

You can not say Garp can lift a continent, you cannot say that Kaido can defeat two admirals at once.

Same thing. People are legit putting diamond cutting on par with a low tier feat that anyone of noticeable skill should be able to bypass. >_> But that's not the damn case...

If diamond is cuttable by a swordsmen, it will get shown or stated later to hype said persons cutting power. If someone not Mihawk or Law (using his fruit.) cuts diamond then i'll admit Mihawk can as well. But so far no one in this manga has shown the capability of doing that other than Law who's fruit makes the durability of diamond a none factor.

There is also the whole theory about a certain BB Pirate using the Diamond fruit to defeat Mihawk and take the title of WSS. How is said pirate suppose to do this if said DF makes no difference in the battle because Mihawk can and i quote. "Cut Diamond." or because Haki renders said DF useless. >_>

It's not Mihawk can cut diamond unless shown otherwise, it's Mihawk cannot cut diamond until he shows he can.


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## J★J♥ (Oct 29, 2016)

Jozu stopped Mihawks strongest slash just by standing in front of it.

Mihawk stands as much of a chance as Nami.


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## Quipchaque (Oct 29, 2016)

Juvia. said:


> I already said that Shanks can't cut him either without feats. I love the way Mihawk fans bring up Shanks in every Mihawk vs thread saying. "Well you think Shanks blah blah blah can do it so Mihawk can do it too." Like seriously, no i fking don't.
> 
> I never said they cannot hurt him, i even say in this thread that both should be capable of hurting him. If you can hurt someone you can defeat said someone.
> 
> ...



Ok so how can Shanks defeat Jozu? There should be no question there must be some weak points to his diamond defense if Jozu´s just commander tier. The only reason I brought up Shanks is because him and Mihawk were hyped to be equals and Shanks got an exact strength comparison to other pirates with his yonko title so obviously it helps to use him to scale Mihawk.

Of course we can´t give characters feats they have not earned but at the same time you must take portrayal into consideration. Otherwise we can´t assume that Kaido can use haki either, right? Feats are not everything. Sure it may be possible that Mihawk _can´t_ cut diamond but that´s not proven either nor is it what I argue in the first place. I said Mihawk should be capable to cut Jozu not diamond itself. Haki is likely the key. That´s what it´s been introduced for- as a balancing power for certain match-ups.

Also since you said we shouldn´t give characters feats they didn´t earn then why do you bring up Shiryu for the argument? He hasn´t exactly done anything either to suggest that he can defeat Mihawk. You are doing the exact same thing. Mihawk has been hyped way more yet for some reason you support the theory that a weaker character might turn out stronger without any feats by Shiryu. Surely we must give Shiryu the same treatment here and disregard the possiblities now because of no-feats fallacy.


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## Yuki (Oct 29, 2016)

DiscoZoro20 said:


> Ok so how can Shanks defeat Jozu? There should be no question there must be some weak points to his diamond defense if Jozu´s just commander tier. The only reason I brought up Shanks is because him and Mihawk were hyped to be equals and Shanks got an exact strength comparison to other pirates with his yonko title so obviously it helps to use him to scale Mihawk.
> 
> Of course we can´t give characters feats they have not earned but at the same time you must take portrayal into consideration. Otherwise we can´t assume that Kaido can use haki either, right? Feats are not everything. Sure it may be possible that Mihawk _can´t_ cut diamond but that´s not proven either nor is it what I argue in the first place. I said Mihawk should be capable to cut Jozu not diamond itself. Haki is likely the key. That´s what it´s been introduced for- as a balancing power for certain match-ups.
> 
> Also since you said we shouldn´t give characters feats they didn´t earn then why do you bring up Shiryu for the argument? He hasn´t exactly done anything either to suggest that he can defeat Mihawk. You are doing the exact same thing. Mihawk has been hyped way more yet for some reason you support the theory that a weaker character might turn out stronger without any feats by Shiryu. Surely we must give Shiryu the same treatment here and disregard the possiblities now because of no-feats fallacy.



There is the fact that Jozu has never once covered his entire body in diamond nor has he shown the ability to move the parts of his body that are diamond. Other than that they can use haki on their blades and use them as bats to deal internal damage via blunt force if they can't outright crush diamond with the strength of their swings. (Diamond is brittle and can be crushed, it's just uncutable unless you use a lazer.)

Jozu is still a top commander, no battle with him should ever be easy unless you can oneshot him, never mind vs someone he has an advantage over. It's a high dif fight for either Mihawk or Shanks if they can't cut him or a low dif fight if they can.

The portrayal is that diamond is the strongest substance in the OP world just like it is in our own world. Cutting it is the best cutting feat a swordsmen can ever get and one that must be shown on panel or stated by a character via. "He sliced a diamond right in two."

I never even give him any feats, just pointed out a fan theory. He will be Zoro's villain when it comes to the SHs vs BB Pirates. If you think Zoro gets his dream after Luffy even though it's canon being Pirate King is far harder than being the worlds WSS, then that's your opinion. But i think Zoro will get his first.


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## Quipchaque (Oct 29, 2016)

Juvia. said:


> There is the fact that Jozu has never once covered his entire body in diamond nor has he shown the ability to move the parts of his body that are diamond. Other than that they can use haki on their blades and use them as bats to deal internal damage via blunt force if they can't outright crush diamond with the strength of their swings. (Diamond is brittle and can be crushed, it's just uncutable unless you use a lazer.)
> 
> Jozu is still a top commander, no battle with him should ever be easy unless you can oneshot him, never mind vs someone he has an advantage over. It's a high dif fight for either Mihawk or Shanks if they can't cut him or a low dif fight if they can.
> 
> ...



Yeah part of his body being vulnerable is of course an option too. Doesn´t really matter how to me. The only thing I know is that there are ways to hurt Jozu otherwise he would be too op just like Marco who has limitations for his devil fruit as well.

Didn´t say that it would be easy to beat Jozu in fact if you look back to my first post in this thread I said the same thing, it would be high-diff. So we can agree on that I suppose.

Again I didn´t say that Mihawk has to be able to cut diamond but that it´s likely that he can bypass it with haki. Given the _portrayal_ of Mihawk´s haki that it makes his sword unbreakable, his overall standing which requires him to surpass any swordsmen´s haki+ his unbreakable will to become the strongest  I think it is fair to say that Mihawk has at least stronger armament haki than Jozu, so it should be possible to cut Jozu regardless of diamond being the strongest substance and all.

Fair enough but a fan theory is not really a reason to say that Mihawk can´t defeat Jozu or diamond fruit devil fruit users. He could lose by cheapshots or the way Whitebeard died by being outnumbered and all.


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## Yuki (Oct 29, 2016)

Not really, i just said multiple ways someone can hurt him even if he could make his body all diamond all the time.

Good.

And i don't agree that just because someones haki surpasses someone else's that the other persons DF is rendered completely useless. This is just not true and makes the two draw backs that i assume Jozu has actually a hindrance to him and as such he is better off not even using his fruit at all vs people stronger than him as it just makes him that much weaker... >_> What good is a defence DF that only works on people with weaker haki than your self... He could literally just use oh idk, HAKI!  Since you know, people with weaker haki can't surpass the stronger haki in the first place...

It is, because i don't see said BB Pirate defeating Mihawk without it and i don't see it being a team battle as i see this happen when Shanks and BB are at war.


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## Akira1993 (Oct 29, 2016)

Mihawk ofc.


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## Quipchaque (Oct 29, 2016)

Juvia. said:


> Not really, i just said multiple ways someone can hurt him even if he could make his body all diamond all the time.
> 
> Good.
> 
> ...



Nobody said that a diamond devil fruit is useless if you can bypass the defense. There are multiple factors you are overlooking here. He can still punch really hard, any attack that is not fueled by haki would be useless so you have to waste a lot of stamina to pressure Jozu and diamonds can still break anything not coated by haki as well. Also awakening would be a bitch if all your surroundings are diamond or whatever it will do for Jozu.

Doesn´t need to be a team battle. Oda is very creative with all these things. He could weaken Mihawk by making him fight Zoro momentarily slightly getting injured in the process. Or Shiryu comes in for a killing blow in the middle of their fight etc etc.. Let your imagination run wild man, nothing is written in stone yet. We can´t even tell if Mihawk will fight Shiryu in the first place. Think about it the official first mate of the red hair pirates is Beckman so who is he going to fight?


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## Yuki (Oct 29, 2016)

DiscoZoro20 said:


> Nobody said that a diamond devil fruit is useless if you can bypass the defense. There are multiple factors you are overlooking here. He can still punch really hard, any attack that is not fueled by haki would be useless so you have to waste a lot of stamina to pressure Jozu and diamonds can still break anything not coated by haki as well. Also awakening would be a bitch if all your surroundings are diamond or whatever it will do for Jozu.
> 
> Doesn´t need to be a team battle. Oda is very creative with all these things. He could weaken Mihawk by making him fight Zoro momentarily slightly getting injured in the process. Or Shiryu comes in for a killing blow in the middle of their fight etc etc.. Let your imagination run wild man, nothing is written in stone yet. We can´t even tell if Mihawk will fight Shiryu in the first place. Think about it the official first mate of the red hair pirates is Beckman so who is he going to fight?



Haki works as defense and also protects you from DFs. Diamond Imo does not so too much when it comes to offence. It's pretty much a stronger form of haki... As for the awakening, no that would not cause trouble for anyone lol...

This is OP and most big fights are indeed 1v1s. If Shiryu gets the title of WSS it will have to be a 1v1 and Zoro will need to beat him in a 1v1 to get said title from him.

But i'm done with this now, it's getting boring and stale. I'll leave with this.

1. I don't think haki will work the way some of you think aka allowing swordsmen to cut a diamond man. Haki is not the Yami Yami. It does not negate DF abilities.

2. No one gets feats for free that no one has shown at all throughout the manga and certainly not ones like a swordsmen cutting something known to be uncuttable via blade. It's like saying someone should be able to move faster than the speed of light because someone far weaker could move at the speed of sound. It's stupid.


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## HawkEye13 (Oct 29, 2016)

Mihawk mid diffs, the differance between Mihawk and the commanders is getting clearer and clearer.


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## HawkEye13 (Oct 29, 2016)

J★J♥ said:


> Jozu stopped Mihawks strongest slash just by standing in front of it.
> 
> Mihawk stands as much of a chance as Nami.


A casual, non named, one handed, no sweat attack is Mihawk's strongest attack?
It wasn't even his strongest attack in that arc


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## TheWiggian (Oct 29, 2016)

As far as iam concerned Law replaced the sea prism rope/handcuffs, whatever it was with a normal one. That's how he was able to get rid of it.


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## Quipchaque (Oct 29, 2016)

Juvia. said:


> Haki works as defense and also protects you from DFs. Diamond Imo does not so too much when it comes to offence. It's pretty much a stronger form of haki... As for the awakening, no that would not cause trouble for anyone lol...
> 
> This is OP and most big fights are indeed 1v1s. If Shiryu gets the title of WSS it will have to be a 1v1 and Zoro will need to beat him in a 1v1 to get said title from him.
> 
> ...



How does diamond not do much when it comes to offense? If your fist is covered in diamonds it is bound to hurt. That´s why Jozu uses it to tackle Crocodile and punch through the ice ground in Marineford. And yes it would cause a lot of trouble in awakening form you are seriously underestimating said situation. I certainly wouldn´t want to get crushed by all sides from walls made of diamond.

Dunno as I said the conclusion to Zoro´s title hunting could take lots of routes and you still didn´t explain who Beckman is going to fight. So there is a flaw in that fan theory anyway.

Never said it negates df abilities. It bypasses durability gimmicks tho just like it does in Luffy´s case.


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## Bogard (Oct 29, 2016)

Luffy and Zoro will probably achieve their dream at around the same time. Mihawk didn't say becoming pirate king is far harder than becoming WSS. He only said it's harder and Zoro is below Luffy, so when Luffy will become the harder to become pirate king, Zoro will most likely become the WSS at around the same moment, whether it'd be a little before or a little after is questionable though. Currently we're in the yonko saga and at the same time, Oda created an island of swordsmen in the middle of that yonko saga in my opinion to create a linking path between both of their paths. Mihawk wanted Zoro to cross the world before facing him, so most likely he is waiting to fight him when he'd already be at the end of his voyage


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## Nidai Kitetsu (Oct 29, 2016)

A certain Luffy or Sanji fangirl's hypocrisy: 

Standard 1: I believe in *feats*. Fuck titles, fuck hype, fuck portrayal, I need feats. 

Standard 2: There is a *theory* that Mihawk will die by Shiryuu. I love this theory, so Mihawk cant cut diamond.


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## Six (Oct 29, 2016)

Love how the Mihawk boys form a little tight knit group in this section just to make each other fell good.


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## Virus (Oct 29, 2016)

Thes people. Jozu fought against an admiral, while Mihawk had to take care Crocodile and Luffy. Jozu taks this high diff


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## Etherborn (Oct 29, 2016)

TheWiggian said:


> As far as iam concerned Law replaced the sea prism rope/handcuffs, whatever it was with a normal one. That's how he was able to get rid of it.



Everyone's handcuffs or just his own?


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## Monstar6 (Oct 29, 2016)

Transcendent Samurai said:


> Everyone's handcuffs or just his own?


His own were mere handcuffs but the other ones were kairouseiki handcuffs.


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## J★J♥ (Oct 29, 2016)

HawkEye13 said:


> A casual, non named, one handed, no sweat attack is Mihawk's strongest attack?
> It wasn't even his strongest attack in that arc


Yes because Mihawk wanted to test himself Against WB with his weakest attack and manga saying strongest slash is bullshit because you say so. OK.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Bohemian Knight (Oct 29, 2016)

barreltheif said:


> No. The haki is what allows people to touch Luffy. The force of the blow is what hurts Luffy. A stronger punch will hurt Luffy more than a weaker punch.
> Same for sword attacks. Hakified slashes against a logia do damage because of the slash, not because of the haki. The haki is what allows them to hit the logia.


IIRC, Zoro specifically recalled Mihawk telling him that imbuing his swords with CoA increases the damage done by his slashes as he was fighting Pika.


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## Canute87 (Oct 29, 2016)

Mihawk high difficulty.

I'm going to assume that Mihawk's praise of vista makes him an actual threat and as i see josu a more powerful combatant packing harder substance, that difficulty increases.


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## Nidai Kitetsu (Oct 30, 2016)

TheWiggian said:


> As far as iam concerned Law replaced the sea prism rope/handcuffs, whatever it was with a normal one. That's how he was able to get rid of it.


Thats not the only panel that shows Law can cut Kairoseki. 

Marine HQ's ships have kairoseki in the hull.

Law cut Smoker's ship in half. 

We need confirmation (Law could replace other's kairoseki chain with normal chain in PH or the only ships that has to cross calm belt has kairoseki), but at the moment, it seems he can cut kairoseki.


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## IchijiNijiSanji (Oct 30, 2016)

By feats of his latest incarnation Mihawk was around vista level .Even after dueling for a few minutes, they wanted to continue the fight later. If Big Mom fought Cracker, in a few minutes it would be clear who the superior fighter is easily and there would be no need to "postpone" it because their levels would be clear from the massive difference.  Vista would've accepted that he would've lost eventually and admitted it to mihawk. 

However, by his title and his association with Shanks, he seems to be around Yonko level. 

He also did fight the 4th commander, as opposed to Kizaru who fought 1st commander (first mate) and Aokiji who fought No3 (joz). All of them did try to fight Whitebeard as well in very brief clashes, which would indicate his portrayal of being like the admirals.

So, we should probably go the middle route of being Yonko commander and Yonko level, and say that he is around solid admiral level by a combination of feats, hype and portrayal.

Which should mean he should beat Jozu with higher end of mid diff or lower end of high diff.


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## Geralt-Singh (Oct 30, 2016)

J★J♥ said:


> Yes because Mihawk wanted to test himself Against WB with his weakest attack and manga saying strongest slash is bullshit because you say so. OK.



It was the strongest slash in the world since it was Mihawk's. 
It wasn't his weakest but anyone thinking that it was his strongest attack is delusional, he was using one hand without even trying hard.
The frozen ice he cut afterward was a way greater feat.


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## J★J♥ (Oct 30, 2016)

WestWood7 said:


> It was the strongest slash in the world since it was Mihawk's.
> It wasn't his weakest but anyone thinking that it was his strongest attack is delusional, he was using one hand without even trying hard.
> The frozen ice he cut afterward was a way greater feat.


It's funny that you use word delusional after that first sentence.
Attacks WB to test himself -> Manga says strongest slash -> Not a strongest slash ->calls others delusional. WP. You will go far in life.


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## Yuki (Oct 30, 2016)

Attack aimed at Luffy > Attack aimed at Whitebeared.

Ok.


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## TheWiggian (Oct 30, 2016)

Transcendent Samurai said:


> Everyone's handcuffs or just his own?



Just his own, then he used the keys to open the other handcuffs.


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## TheWiggian (Oct 30, 2016)

Nidai Kitetsu said:


> Thats not the only panel that shows Law can cut Kairoseki.
> 
> Marine HQ's ships have kairoseki in the hull.
> 
> ...



I don't know if Smoker's ship got the same build so i can't say for sure. But i go with no he can't cut it from the evidence that he needed the keys to open the other handcuffs. I think it's more believeable as assuming that Smoker's ship had a sea prism hull. Ofc you can believe something else. It's just way more likely than him being able to split it. Sea Prism should be able to negate all dmg from DF's unless there's immense powerful Haki involved, that's what it is for after all.


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## Bogard (Oct 30, 2016)

Mihawk is the world strongest swordsman, so random observers will perceive his attacks as the strongest. Doesn't mean it was actually his strongest though. His attack on Whitebeard was an opener and you don't usually start battles with your strongest attacks. He was trying to engage Whitebeard in battle, but Jozu interferred. It was placed in parallel with Kizaru attacking him with yasakani no magatama which i doubt is Kizaru's strongest attack. So as mentioned it was an opener, but like Marco mentioned, they weren't willing for their "king"(Whitebeard) to be attacked first, so they interferred.

Reactions: Like 2 | Winner 1


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## HawkEye13 (Oct 30, 2016)

J★J♥ said:


> Yes because Mihawk wanted to test himself Against WB with his weakest attack and manga saying strongest slash is bullshit because you say so. OK.


Official translation: "He stopped a slash from the world strongest swordsmen". You're making a verdict based on shitty translation.
And how can that be his strongest attack if he showed a much stronger attack in the same arc?


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## HawkEye13 (Oct 30, 2016)

Anyways whatever went down at Marineford is becoming more irrelevant the deeper we go into the Yonko saga: Mihawk's portray and limited feats are already much better than Cracker who is the same level as Jozu. And next arc Zoro will likely defeat someone stronger than Jozu.
It's so obvious at this point that commanders can't beat a top tier 1v1.


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## Yuki (Oct 30, 2016)

HawkEye13 said:


> Official translation: "He stopped a slash from the world strongest swordsmen". You're making a verdict based on shitty translation.
> And how can that be his strongest attack if he showed a much stronger attack in the same arc?



It's the correct translated. >_>


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## Geralt-Singh (Oct 30, 2016)

J★J♥ said:


> It's funny that you use word delusional after that first sentence.
> Attacks WB to test himself -> Manga says strongest slash -> Not a strongest slash ->calls others delusional. WP. You will go far in life.



Strongest slash in the world doesn't mean Mihawk's strongest slash/attack since Mihawk is the WSS, so a normal attack from him is still the world's strongest slash. It's pretty clear and it doesn't contradict what the manga tells us. What do you don't understand here ? If you think that Mihawk showed his strongest attack using one hand at this point of the manga then you are delusional.


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## Geralt-Singh (Oct 30, 2016)

Juvia. said:


> Attack aimed at Luffy > Attack aimed at Whitebeared.
> 
> Ok.



Attack using two hands > attack using one hand

Do you understand ?

Reactions: Funny 3


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## Yuki (Oct 30, 2016)

WestWood7 said:


> Attack using two hands > attack using one hand
> 
> Do you understand ?



Attack sent against the worlds strongest man to see the difference between him self and said worlds strongest man > Attack against someone Mihawk can oneshot anytime he wants but holds back so this does not happen.

Do you understand? Clearly not. 

Also thinking all attacks with two hands are better than all attacks using one hand.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## HawkEye13 (Oct 30, 2016)

Juvia. said:


> Attack sent against the worlds strongest man to see the difference between him self and said worlds strongest man > Attack against someone Mihawk can oneshot anytime he wants but holds back so this does not happen.
> 
> Do you understand? Clearly not.
> 
> Also thinking all attacks with two hands are better than all attacks using one hand.


Wtf, The tsunami slash was calculated to be much more powerful than the slash he sent to whitebeard, even without calculation, it's common sense that the slash that cut a mountain from a good distance will have more force than a normal slash.
Both attacks were casual but the tsunami slash is clearly superior

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Geralt-Singh (Oct 30, 2016)

Juvia. said:


> Attack sent against the worlds strongest man to see the difference between him self and said worlds strongest man > Attack against someone Mihawk can oneshot anytime he wants but holds back so this does not happen.
> 
> Do you understand? Clearly not.
> 
> Also thinking all attacks with two hands are better than all attacks using one hand.



Forget Luffy here, he was obviously protected by the plot, the purpose was to show more of Mihawk's power by letting him cut the frozen tsunami.
The slash aimed to WB was more a way to hype Jozu's durability, just like Kizaru's attack used to hype Marco's durability.


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## Yuki (Oct 30, 2016)

Idk if an attack was calced higher.

The one meant for WB has an entire sword beam, the one that cut the Ice Burg was just an after effect of a high powered slash. It should be obvoius which attack Mihawk put more effort into. Ranged attack with sword beam > Attack that did range damage without sword beam.

Stop a planet busting attack in the middle of it going off, of course the calculations are going to be dodgy. Not comparing Mihawks slash to a planet buster, just making an example.

It's also not the only time Mihawks sword beam slash was called the worlds strongest slash if i am correct. If i am not, either i am remembering wrong or it was anime only.


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## J★J♥ (Oct 30, 2016)

WestWood7 said:


> Strongest slash in the world doesn't mean Mihawk's strongest slash/attack since Mihawk is the WSS, so a normal attack from him is still the world's strongest slash. It's pretty clear and it doesn't contradict what the manga tells us. What do you don't understand here ? If you think that Mihawk showed his strongest attack using one hand at this point of the manga then you are delusional.


That is exactly what it means. Take a step back and read your own fucking comments. You sound so delusional it's sad.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Oct 30, 2016)

J★J♥ said:


> It's funny that you use word delusional after that first sentence.
> Attacks WB to test himself -> Manga says strongest slash -> Not a strongest slash ->calls others delusional. WP. You will go far in life.



You do know that its physically NOT POSSIBLE for a AIR SLASH to be a swordsmens strongest attack right. A AIR SLASH is produced by the force of his sword swinging through  the air. 

Its literally impossible for a two handed physical contact swing from mihawk not to be more powerful. A random fodder saying something does not override common sense

Reactions: Agree 1


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## J★J♥ (Oct 30, 2016)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> You do know that its physically NOT POSSIBLE for a AIR SLASH to be a swordsmens strongest attack right. A AIR SLASH is produced by the force of his sword swinging through  the air.
> 
> Its literally impossible for a two handed physical contact swing from mihawk not to be more powerful. A random fodder saying something does not override common sense


Yes. Yes. I guess that shit Zoro used at Pika is weaker than his normal slash. Your logic is overwhelmingly over 9000. Good boy have a cookie.


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## xmysticgohanx (Oct 30, 2016)

J★J♥ said:


> Yes. Yes. I guess that shit Zoro used at Pika is weaker than his normal slash. Your logic is overwhelmingly over 9000. Good boy have a cookie.


 Sanzen Sekai > 1080 pound ho is obv


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## HawkEye13 (Oct 30, 2016)

J★J♥ said:


> That is exactly what it means. Take a step back and read your own fucking comments. You sound so delusional it's sad.


Again how is that Mihawk's strongest attack when he showed an attack much more powerful in the same arc?
Again the official translation is "he stopped a slash from the world strongest swordsmen"
I like how you're trying to ignore my posts

Reactions: Like 2


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## xmysticgohanx (Oct 30, 2016)

Regardless of whatever the true translation is, there is no way a no name, one handed, air slash is Mihawk's strongest attack.

If Mihawk used the breath to cut diamond, Jozu would have felt it though

Reactions: Like 3


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## Gohara (Oct 31, 2016)

A two handed swing from Mihawk is naturally more powerful than a one handed swing since he can swing with more power.  Techniques at point blank range are usually more powerful than long range techniques so that should also make Mihawk's techniques more powerful.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Oct 31, 2016)

J★J♥ said:


> Yes. Yes. I guess that shit Zoro used at Pika is weaker than his normal slash. Your logic is overwhelmingly over 9000. Good boy have a cookie.



No idea what your going on about.

Let me put it in simple English.

2 Handed Sword Swing at Max Power>1 Handed sword swing at Max Power.

2 Handed Air Slash at Max Power>1 Handed Air slash at Max Power.

Zoro's 1080 Pound Canon that he used on Pica>360 pound canon he used agasint a random ass fish underwater.(3 swords vs 1)

Zoros Three Thousand worlds>1080 Pound cannon he used on Pica.(Direct Contact move vs Air slash).

Mihawks Two handed God slayer of a thousand moons>One handed Air slash.

 Common sense takes precedence. Some random fodder saying its his strongest attack means jack squat(ignoring the fact that its a bad translation) i doubt anyone on the planet alive has even seen Mihawks current strongest attack let alone some random ass marine or pirate .

Again Common sense im just being real right now its literally impossible for what your saying to be true. If i Punch at you from 2 miles away and you get sent flying across the street, whats going to happen when i directly punch you in the face with both hands. Your arguing that the punch from 2 miles away is going to hurt you more.

Reactions: Like 2 | Funny 1


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## Etherborn (Nov 2, 2016)

The reason it's impossible to cut diamond with a blade is that the diamond is much harder than the blade. That's why they use lasers or even other diamonds. With armaments haki though, if it's strong enough, the blade can be hardened to the point where the diamond can be cut. So with a combination of armaments haki and the technique swordsmen use to cut objects that are just as hard or harder than the blade itself, in theory, it should be possible for high level swordsmen to cut diamond. Key words, _in theory._


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## Yuki (Nov 2, 2016)

Transcendent Samurai said:


> The reason it's impossible to cut diamond with a blade is that the diamond is much harder than the blade. That's why they use lasers or even other diamonds. With armaments haki though, if it's strong enough, the blade can be hardened to the point where the diamond can be cut. So with a combination of armaments haki and the technique swordsmen use to cut objects that are just as hard or harder than the blade itself, in theory, it should be possible for high level swordsmen to cut diamond. Key words, _in theory._



The reason why diamond is so hard is because their molecules are closer together than anything else on earth. So close in fact that nothing solid can get in between them. The act of cutting is spacing between two molecules and making said space wider aka separating the molecules to the point it's not two different objects. A steel blade cannot possibly get in between two molecules of a diamond. In fact, nothing solid can. 

So unless haki makes a blade sharper aka allow it to get in between said molecules, that's not happening.


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## Etherborn (Nov 2, 2016)

Juvia. said:


> The reason why diamond is so hard is because their molecules are closer together than anything else on earth. So close in fact that nothing solid can get in between them. The act of cutting is spacing between two molecules and making said space wider. A steel blade cannot possibly get in between two molecules of a diamond.
> 
> So unless haki makes a blade sharper aka allow it to get in between said molecules, that's not happening.



I don't need to be an expert in chemistry or physics to know that this explanation isn't quite right.

You're implying that the only way to cut a solid object is with a blade that can fit in-between the molecules? Think about that for a second. Have you ever cut bread with a plastic knife? Perhaps one that's not even sharp at all? Have you ever chopped wood with a relatively dull axe? All of these things are possible regardless of the fact that the blade certainly isn't passing between individual molecules.

The molecules of any solid in general are too close together for a blade to pass through. That's not how the cutting is done. A blade simply exerts a certain amount of pressure, the same way a blunt object does, but concentrates the force onto a much smaller surface area. The sharper the object, the smaller that surface area can be. You don't have to slip the blade in between the molecules—which is impossible—because enough force on that small area will fracture the chemical bonds regardless.


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## Yuki (Nov 2, 2016)

Transcendent Samurai said:


> I don't need to be an expert in chemistry or physics to know that this explanation isn't quite right.
> 
> You're implying that the only way to cut a solid object is with a blade that can fit in-between the molecules? Think about that for a second. Have you ever cut bread with a plastic knife? Perhaps one that's not even sharp at all? Have you ever chopped wood with a relatively dull axe? All of these things are possible regardless of the fact that the blade certainly isn't passing between individual molecules.
> 
> The molecules of any solid in general are too close together for a blade to pass through. That's not how the cutting is done. A blade simply exerts a certain amount of pressure, the same way a blunt object does, but concentrates the force onto a much smaller surface area. The sharper the object, the smaller that surface area can be. You don't have to slip the blade in between the molecules—which is impossible—because enough force on that small area will fracture the chemical bonds regardless.



No, you're right about most of what you said. But it's not the same. The act of pressing against such soft stuff as bread and even hard things like wood twists and turns the molecules in said objects to allow the cut. However, what happens most times is that the object you are hitting gets damaged upon impact and the molecules separate that way allowing for a cut. That's why most hard wood looks pretty banged up by the time it's completely cut through.

The thing about diamond however, is that it's too brittle to allow either of these things to happen. If you bend into the molecules or you damage them, the diamond will just crack and break. Either way, no cutting is actually preformed.

Although now that i think about it Jozu using hardening haki on his own diamond COULD change that. Just like how a strong enough blunt force can hurt Luffy when he is using hardening as it takes away his elasticity.


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## Six (Nov 10, 2016)

Mihawk ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".) gonna ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".).


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## giantbiceps (Nov 10, 2016)

Nimura Furuta said:


> Mihawk ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".) gonna ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".).

Reactions: Like 1 | Useful 1


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## zoro (Nov 10, 2016)

Nimura Furuta said:


> Mihawk ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".) gonna ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".).



Don't start shit please


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## xmysticgohanx (Nov 11, 2016)

Nimura Furuta said:


> Mihawk ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".) gonna ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".).


 my arguments are unbeatable


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## Seraphoenix (Nov 11, 2016)

Can one of you OP swordsmen experts please tell me, if I know the 'breath' of a leaf does that mean I know the 'breath' of every other substance? I don't have time to go reread.


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## xmysticgohanx (Nov 11, 2016)

No but it doesn't matter to this thread.

Mihawk is WSS

Zoro says there is nothing he can't cut

Law cut sea stone which is as hard as diamond (might have been with his fruit though so not too strong of a point)

Daz Bones asked Zoro if he would cut diamond next, pointless question if it was impossible by current top swordsman standards.


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## Yuki (Nov 11, 2016)

xmysticgohanx said:


> No but it doesn't matter to this thread.
> 
> Mihawk is WSS
> 
> ...



Zoro is a bloat head. Just coz he says there is nothing he can't cut does not mean there is nothing he can't cut.

Daz thought it was impossible to cut his steel. His question was in regards of what else he thought was impossible. Zoro also said right after that learning to cut diamond would be pointless.


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## xmysticgohanx (Nov 11, 2016)

Juvia. said:


> Zoro is a bloat head. Just coz he says there is nothing he can't cut does not mean there is nothing he can't cut.
> 
> Daz thought it was impossible to cut his steel. His question was in regards of what else he thought was impossible. Zoro also said right after that learning to cut diamond would be pointless.



1. It makes it more likely than otherwise though which is the point in a thread where we basically have 0 info.

2. Zoro contradicts himself when he then says there's nothing he can't cut 2 years later. mihawk must have said something or Zoro saw news of Jozu being a thing

The other


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## Zyrax (Nov 11, 2016)

Mihawk low Mid diffs


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## Etherborn (Nov 11, 2016)

xmysticgohanx said:


> Zoro says there is nothing he can't cut



And then fails to cut the birdcage in the very same arc.

Diamond > string last time I checked.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Yuki (Nov 11, 2016)

xmysticgohanx said:


> 1. It makes it more likely than otherwise though which is the point in a thread where we basically have 0 info.
> 
> 2. Zoro contradicts himself when he then says there's nothing he can't cut 2 years later. mihawk must have said something or Zoro saw news of Jozu being a thing
> 
> The other



Great so just because a character says they can do something it means they can? I guess Pica can beat all of Dressrosa by him self then including Fujo, Sabo and Luffy.



Transcendent Samurai said:


> And then fails to cut the birdcage in the very same arc.
> 
> Diamond > string last time I checked.



LOL! Rekt.


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## xmysticgohanx (Nov 11, 2016)

Transcendent Samurai said:


> And then fails to cut the birdcage in the very same arc.
> 
> Diamond > string last time I checked.


 highkey forgot about that

Though it can be said that everything Zoro knew about he can cut. He didn't know birdcage strings where a thing at the time. He must know diamond is a thing. Doesn't mean I think Zoro can beat Jozu though as my (more or less representative of my current beliefs) tier list shows

We'll know the true answer in less than 10 years hopefully

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Monstar6 (Nov 11, 2016)

Transcendent Samurai said:


> And then fails to cut the birdcage in the very same arc.
> 
> Diamond > string last time I checked.


Tbf actually he never tried to cut them.

Reactions: Like 3


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## shisuiuchiha5 (Jan 27, 2018)

Seraphoenix said:


> Am I missing something? We can't see his stance in that panel. All we see is the slash, then Jozu jumps off the ship, then the slash dissipates and Jozu is left with no injuries. There is no indication that he struggled. That's anime embellishment.
> 
> That was not some mickey mouse slash. It was intended for WB and Jozu shrugged it off.



mihawk was not even trying with that slash,it was only a casual one armed slash,it was an unnamed attack,if mihawk used both of his arms and used a named slash,then jozu will get cut into half

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Raiden34 (Jan 27, 2018)

Jozu has better feats and his portrayal against Mihawk in MF was better. He stopped Mihawk's strongest attack by taking no damage which was essentially sent for WSM Whitebeard. And Mihawk had to step back after seeing that his attack was completely ineffective.

Jozu wins.

Reactions: Like 1 | Tier Specialist 2


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## Emperor Whitebeard (Jan 27, 2018)

Mihawk high diffs. Only reason this goes to a solid high diff is because Jozu is the worst possible match up for Mihawk, in the whole OP verse.

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## HawkEye13 (Jan 27, 2018)

Lmao, I actually believed  it was midd diff befor due to those Yonko fanatics overhype

Low diff, YC are nothing compared to top tiers
He likely already got an *overwhelming defeat* to that fodder shilliew

Reactions: Disagree 1 | Tier Specialist 2


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## Canute87 (Jan 27, 2018)

Marco brushes off Kizaru's attack , OL -  Kizaru high/extreme diffs

Josu brushes of Mihawk's attack,  OL   - Mihawk low diffs.

Reactions: Like 1 | Useful 2


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## DoctorLaw (Jan 27, 2018)

Erkan12 said:


> Jozu has better feats and his portrayal against Mihawk in MF was better. He stopped Mihawk's strongest attack by taking no damage which was essentially sent for WSM Whitebeard. And Mihawk had to step back after seeing that his attack was completely ineffective.
> 
> Jozu wins.



That attack was called the World's Strongest Slash by onlookers, referring to any attack coming from Mihawk being a top-caliber sword attack. Every character in this series with very few exceptions have named attacks that are significantly more powerful than regular attacks, and pretty much every swordsman in the series has a named attack that can do something special.

Mihawk didn't use any named attack. Mihawk also didn't seem concerned, if we're ballparking character mindsets. You would think that if you worked your hardest to become someone that could cut anything and some guy comes along and stops you, you'd have a more "WHAT?" kind of reaction.

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## Dunno (Jan 27, 2018)

Canute87 said:


> Marco brushes off Kizaru's attack , OL -  Kizaru high/extreme diffs
> 
> Josu brushes of Mihawk's attack,  OL   - Mihawk low diffs.



Pre-TS Luffy brushes off Sengoku's attack , OL - Sengoku stomps.


*Spoiler*: __ 



It's all about context

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Raiden34 (Jan 28, 2018)

Naming your attack has nothing to do with it. Garp didn't name his attack on Marco, Sengoku didn't name his attack on Blackbeard pirates. Whitebeard never named his attacks, not even once. Blackbeard didn't name his Quake attacks, or his final AoE Darkness assimilation against Ace's Dai Enkai Entei which covered the half of the island. Aokiji didn't name his attack on Jozu when he cheap-shotted him. Doflamingo didn't name his attack when he stopped Jozu. Vista didn't name his move when he stopped Mihawk. Kizaru was same when he cheap-shotted Marco from behind. Akainu didn't name his attack on Whitebeard when Whitebeard's heart stopped. Katakuri didn't name his attack when he countered Luffy's G3. Or when he tried to kill Sanji. Law didn't name his attack when he sliced Vergo in half. Sanji didn't name his first attacks on Vergo and Doflamingo. Smoker didn't name his attacks on Vergo and Doflamingo. No one can say that they used weaker attacks based on they didn't name their attacks. It was stated to be Mihawk's strongest attack, and no one disagreed with that includes Mihawk's himself, and shortly before that attack Mihawk said he wanted to measure the power difference between himself and WSM Whitebeard. The attack's only purpose was measuring the power difference between himself and someone who is more powerful than himself and when he see that Jozu stopped it without even taking any damage he simply stepped back.

Reactions: Like 1


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## shisuiuchiha5 (Jan 28, 2018)

Erkan12 said:


> Naming your attack has nothing to do with it. Garp didn't name his attack on Marco, Sengoku didn't name his attack on Blackbeard pirates. Whitebeard never named his attacks, not even once. Blackbeard didn't name his Quake attacks, or his final AoE Darkness assimilation against Ace's Dai Enkai Entei which covered the half of the island. Aokiji didn't name his attack on Jozu when he cheap-shotted him. Doflamingo didn't name his attack when he stopped Jozu. Vista didn't name his move when he stopped Mihawk. Kizaru was same when he cheap-shotted Marco from behind. Akainu didn't name his attack on Whitebeard when Whitebeard's heart stopped. Katakuri didn't name his attack when he countered Luffy's G3. Or when he tried to kill Sanji. Law didn't name his attack when he sliced Vergo in half. Sanji didn't name his first attacks on Vergo and Doflamingo. Smoker didn't name his attacks on Vergo and Doflamingo. No one can say that they used weaker attacks based on they didn't name their attacks. It was stated to be Mihawk's strongest attack, and no one disagreed with that includes Mihawk's himself, and shortly before that attack Mihawk said he wanted to measure the power difference between himself and WSM Whitebeard. The attack's only purpose was measuring the power difference between himself and someone who is more powerful than himself and when he see that Jozu stopped it without even taking any damage he simply stepped back.




you are taking mihawk's statement waay to seriously,he was not even using 20% of his strength in that slash,it was only an unnamed casual one arm swing,that's it,it was only a warning shot at the best

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Jan 28, 2018)

mihawk cuts him in half

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## Deleted member 211714 (Jan 28, 2018)

It depends on how Mihawk fights him. In most cases, Mihawk defeats Jozu with mid-diff at most. Low-diff is quite likely.
If he tries to fight up close, it would be close to high-diff. If Mihawk spams ranged slashes and forces Jozu to toss them, he will overwhelm him very quickly. Jozu can't use diamond on his entire body without losing mobility, so his ability won't help him against the speed of Mihawk's slashes. In the end, Mihawk can throw slashes faster than Jozu can toss them.


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## Kai (Jan 28, 2018)

shisuiuchiha5 said:


> you are taking mihawk's statement waay to seriously,he was not even using 20% of his strength in that slash,it was only an unnamed casual one arm swing,that's it,it was only a warning shot at the best


So he sent a casual one arm swing slash, a "warning shot" at Whitebeard?

Do you realize how ridiculous that sounds?

Reactions: Winner 2


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## zoro_santoryu (Jan 28, 2018)

Mihawk mid difficulty. def not gonna be easy for Mihawk

Reactions: Friendly 1


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## J★J♥ (Jan 28, 2018)

Jozu shits on Mihawk.

Reactions: Like 1 | Tier Specialist 1 | Dislike 1


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## TheWiggian (Jan 30, 2018)

Mihawk shits on Jozu.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Luke (Jan 30, 2018)

Mihawk wins, higher end of mid difficulty. I don't think the match up here matters half as much as people say.

Reactions: Like 3 | Dislike 1


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## PwnGoatVSPandaman (Feb 1, 2018)

Jozu > Thatch > Vista = Mihawk

Mihawk "Let me test my power against wb"
> Gets no diffed rejected with his strongest attack against Jozu

Pretty much Jozu was the wall Mihawk can't beat in the WB pirates, Vista couldn't have easily dealt with the slash to block it and Thatch was dead, therefore Jozu was the wall that Mihawk can't surpass.

Jozu rushes in, Mihawk tries to air slash, Jozu repels while still keeping momentum forward and smashes Mihawk hard.

Mihawk's strongest slash didn't even push Jozu in the manga.

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## Daisuke Jigen (Feb 1, 2018)

PwnGoatVSPandaman said:


> Thatch > Mihawk



OT: Mihawk after a decent fight.

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## shisuiuchiha5 (Feb 1, 2018)

PwnGoatVSPandaman said:


> Jozu > Thatch > Vista = Mihawk
> 
> Mihawk "Let me test my power against wb"
> > Gets no diffed rejected with his strongest attack against Jozu
> ...



Since you are such a huge fan of named attacks ,I should mention the fact that mihawk used an unnamed slash.

You are taking mihawk's statement way too seriously,it was a casual ,one armed ,unnamed slash.it really is not even a surprise that jozu managed to stop it.
Mihawk used less than 20% of his true strength

Now imagine if mihawk were to use BOTH of his arms and actually use a named slash.

Jozu would struggle a lot to stop that slash

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## PwnGoatVSPandaman (Feb 1, 2018)

shisuiuchiha5 said:


> Since you are such a huge fan of named attacks ,I should mention the fact that mihawk used an unnamed slash.
> 
> You are taking mihawk's statement way too seriously,it was a casual ,one armed ,unnamed slash.it really is not even a surprise that jozu managed to stop it.
> Mihawk used less than 20% of his true strength
> ...


Mihawk used a large air slash that was specifically stated to be his dick measuring tool against WB by himself.
Vista and Marco just clawed and regular slashed Akainu if youa re talking about that.

Also lol at random numbers "oh he only used 0.00001%" bs.

Jozu stopped the attack meant to test his own strength, the fact is that "oh use two arms" isn't relevant in anime unless we are talking realistic combat like in karate shoukoushi kohinata minoru or holyland. Mihawk used an attack that by his own statement was a way for him to gauge his strength against a yonkou, that attack was no sold by Jozu.

It'd be like claiming a king kong gun is only 20% of Luffy's powers because he was only using one hand.

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## xmysticgohanx (Feb 2, 2018)

pwngoat i debunked the jozu stuff months+ ago


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## xmysticgohanx (Feb 2, 2018)

xmysticgohanx said:


> Mihawk just needs to *change the breath of his swing*. You can see this in action when Mihawk aimed an air slash at Luffy which Daz Bones intercepted with no problem. Zoro's air slash vs Fujitora did way better than that. Anyway, Mihawk proceeds to one shot Daz Bones after changing the breath of his swing since he realized who he was. Swordsmen have to change how they swing to cut steel or diamond. It is not automatic.
> 
> If Zoro aimed an air slash at Kaido, Daz Bones would be able to intercept it with no problems. If Zoro aimed it at Daz Bones, Daz Bones will wake up 37 hours later in the middle of Wano.
> 
> Mihawk wins, idc about the difficulty





xmysticgohanx said:


> Mihawk can cut diamond. His swing wasn't the correct breath there since it was aimed at WB. It's kinda like if Mihawk didn't use CoA vs a logia



To add further,

Steel and Diamond are Logias to swordsmen.
The breaths are CoA

Unlike CoA however, the breaths don't add attack power to an attack. They are purely for attacking their respective materials.

That is why swordsmen do not use them all the time. THE BIGGEST EXAMPLE OF THIS is Mihawk's air slash vs Daz Bones.

At the very least, Mihawk > Dressrosa Zoro > Pre-skip Zoro > Daz Bones.

Zoro went from dealing no damage to Daz Bones to one shotting him with a one sword technique after using the breath of steel. Mihawk goes from no damage to one shotting as well.


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## DoctorLaw (Feb 3, 2018)

PwnGoatVSPandaman said:


> Jozu > Thatch > Vista = Mihawk
> 
> Mihawk "Let me test my power against wb"
> > *Gets no diffed rejected with his strongest attack against Jozu*
> ...



I find it funny that you use hyperbole like this when in a different post you mock people for using arbitrary percentages. Both ways can be used to make someone look a lot better or a lot worse.

Anyway, that obviously wasn't Mihawk's strongest attack, since some chapters later we see him launch an attack that is strong enough to completely halve an iceberg. Hint hint, if he can cut an iceberg in half, he used enough force in a wide enough area to cut literally hundreds of thousands to millions of tons of ice. If he can generate that much force from an offhand swing at Luffy, he can certainly generate enough force to crack Jozu. He wouldn't even need to cut him. 

If Mihawk does try to cut a close range Jozu, I don't see how Jozu tanks it if its anything like the iceberg cut. At the very least the force should blow him back completely, Jozu isn't just going to go "lol repel." Jozu of course is a beast himself in terms of physical strength, but unless he's sturdier than hundreds of meters of ice generated from Aokiji, he can't tank close range hits of that magnitude.


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## PwnGoatVSPandaman (Feb 3, 2018)

DoctorLaw said:


> I find it funny that you use hyperbole like this when in a different post you mock people for using arbitrary percentages. Both ways can be used to make someone look a lot better or a lot worse.
> 
> Anyway, that obviously wasn't Mihawk's strongest attack, since some chapters later we see him launch an attack that is strong enough to completely halve an iceberg. Hint hint, if he can cut an iceberg in half, he used enough force in a wide enough area to cut literally hundreds of thousands to millions of tons of ice. If he can generate that much force from an offhand swing at Luffy, he can certainly generate enough force to crack Jozu. He wouldn't even need to cut him.
> 
> If Mihawk does try to cut a close range Jozu, I don't see how Jozu tanks it if its anything like the iceberg cut. At the very least the force should blow him back completely, Jozu isn't just going to go "lol repel." Jozu of course is a beast himself in terms of physical strength, but unless he's sturdier than hundreds of meters of ice generated from Aokiji, he can't tank close range hits of that magnitude.


"Completely half an iceberg"
And why do you consider that attack stronger? Also when has aoe ever equaled raw power. Aoe is just that, aoe. There are people with less aoe than zoro who would easily trounce him, like Cracker for example. 

Anyway the attack used on Whitebeard seemed pretty similar to the one that cut the frozen tsunami, if not being stronger. 

Also can we take a moment and realize that sword cuts in one piece aren't just raw strength, they are strength + specific technique. For example, there are swordsman who are around Zoro's level who can't even cut a ship in half or do air slashes. Zoro and Mihawk are able to do their attacks due to specific techniques + the cutting ability of air slashing.

Also no, Jozu is >>>>>>>>>>>>> that glacier. 

Ultimately don't look at it as diamond, look at him as the most durable character pretty much if you don't catch him off guard. 

Also Jozu already proved he is sturdier than that when he lifted his glacier up (both sturdiness and strength feat)
Heck that was WITHOUT being diamond.

What you need to realize is that Jozu has natural defense from being a top tier, he has diamond defense from his devil fruit (and is seemingly more durable than diamonds because he is a top tier so his mastery of his devil fruit would go beyond basic use), and he has busoshoku haki. (and based on his combat style and personality, he's clearly a busoshoku specialist). Also he has raw strength of his own, when someone swings at him and he throws a fist, you aren't just counting his defense, you are counting the opposing force that he is actually generating.

But yeah, he's studier + the glacier feat is more an aoe feat due to Mihawk having air slashes which lets him do long slashes that he'd functionally be unable to do if he just jammed his swong through it, this allows some versatility in combat but he cut through it with a very wide slash through the most thin part of the glacier, it's a air swing length feat and not a power feat. (at least not one impressive for a top commanderish character)

Mihawk maybe has more of a chance post timeskip if Jozu with one arm is less effective cuz his fighting style is heavily focused on his body (using arms for strength, turning his big body into diamonds to attack and defend, etc etc)
So losing his arm would hurt him more than say if Bart or Cracker lost an arm. (unless Cracker creates biscuit soldiers through arm movements).

2 armed Jozu absolutely wrecks though.

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## PwnGoatVSPandaman (Feb 3, 2018)

xmysticgohanx said:


> To add further,
> 
> Steel and Diamond are Logias to swordsmen.
> The breaths are CoA
> ...


Wow, that's a lot of fan fiction to justify Mihawk's strongest attack getting no sold by Jozu after Vista was stand stilling Mihawk.

Time to give up, Mihawk isn't yonkou leveled but he's still a low top tier and that's pretty strong still.


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## PwnGoatVSPandaman (Feb 3, 2018)

xmysticgohanx said:


> pwngoat i debunked the jozu stuff months+ ago


With your desperate breathing bullshit that has never been brought up in the manga?

You didn't debunk shit, you just are wanking Mihawk.

The fact is that Zoro got stronger to cut Daz Bones, if this was a showing of busoshoku or just a super resolved pushing past his limits we don't know, but it wasn't some "oh you need to breath to cut specific materials and if you breath to cut diamonds, it doesn't cut stuff less durable than diamonds"

Jozu is vastly more durable than diamonds though, his devil fruit mastery being top tier should allow him to push his diamonds to a level beyond that, just like how Luffy isn't just rubber. 

Jozu has top tier stats.

Jozu has busoshoku haki (and based on his character traits and combat showings, he's a specialist in busoshoku)

Jozu also has exceptional strength, Mihawk was unable to cut through a defensive Jozu, imagine if Jozu was rushing headfirst at Mihawk and had an opposing force or better yet, a named attack equivalent of his own.


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## xmysticgohanx (Feb 3, 2018)

PwnGoatVSPandaman said:


> With your desperate breathing bullshit that has never been brought up in the manga?
> 
> You didn't debunk shit, you just are wanking Mihawk.
> 
> ...


'

Mihawk and Zoro both did 0 damage to Daz Bones. After Zoro uses the breath of steel, daz bones got one shot. Same with Mihawk


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## Raiden34 (Feb 4, 2018)

Mihawk could do the same thing to Jozu what he did to Daz Bones, but he didn't. It's completely baseless to say he could cut him in close range, it's not like Jozu was waiting at somewhere Mihawk can't reach.

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## xmysticgohanx (Feb 4, 2018)

Erkan12 said:


> Mihawk could do the same thing to Jozu what he did to Daz Bones, but he didn't. It's completely baseless to say he could cut him in close range, it's not like Jozu was waiting at somewhere Mihawk can't reach.


 He didn't because he did not attack him afterwards. The only hit he did was without the BoD

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## PwnGoatVSPandaman (Feb 4, 2018)

xmysticgohanx said:


> '
> 
> Mihawk and Zoro both did 0 damage to Daz Bones. After Zoro uses the breath of steel, daz bones got one shot. Same with Mihawk


That's called not knowing an opponent is there. As far as Zoro is concerned, that was him limit breaking like every anime character ever.

As far as Mihawk, Mihawk swung at Luffy, Daz Bones got in the way, the cut was enough to cut Luffy who was a mid tier, a casual cut. He was going all out against Whitebeard unless you want to make the argument that Jozu is > Whitebeard

Mihawk was just trying to cut flesh.
Not to mention daz bones blocking at all was more just a symbolic thing anyway. A zoro rival and ex strawhat enemy coming to help alongside his master crocodile.

He wasn't taking Luffy, Daz Bones, or Crocodile particularly seriously. Unless you are trying to say that Crocodile's gold hook doesn't have a breath that can defeat it


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## Quipchaque (Feb 5, 2018)

Erkan12 said:


> Naming your attack has nothing to do with it. Garp didn't name his attack on Marco, Sengoku didn't name his attack on Blackbeard pirates. Whitebeard never named his attacks, not even once. Blackbeard didn't name his Quake attacks, or his final AoE Darkness assimilation against Ace's Dai Enkai Entei which covered the half of the island. Aokiji didn't name his attack on Jozu when he cheap-shotted him. Doflamingo didn't name his attack when he stopped Jozu. Vista didn't name his move when he stopped Mihawk. Kizaru was same when he cheap-shotted Marco from behind. Akainu didn't name his attack on Whitebeard when Whitebeard's heart stopped. Katakuri didn't name his attack when he countered Luffy's G3. Or when he tried to kill Sanji. Law didn't name his attack when he sliced Vergo in half. Sanji didn't name his first attacks on Vergo and Doflamingo. Smoker didn't name his attacks on Vergo and Doflamingo. No one can say that they used weaker attacks based on they didn't name their attacks. It was stated to be Mihawk's strongest attack, and no one disagreed with that includes Mihawk's himself, and shortly before that attack Mihawk said he wanted to measure the power difference between himself and WSM Whitebeard. The attack's only purpose was measuring the power difference between himself and someone who is more powerful than himself and when he see that Jozu stopped it without even taking any damage he simply stepped back.




I recite what DoctorLaw said before you posted this because he is absolutely right on the money:



> *and pretty much every swordsman in the series has a named attack that can do something special.*



You really do have trouble reading. Answer me this. What´s stronger.. Zoro´s ashura and any other named attack or a simple swing of his sword? Brook´s Arrow notch strike or a simple stab? Kaku´s rankyaku or swinging his sword? Cracker´s pretzel roll or casual cutting? It´s as Doc said every swordsman usually has a named high-end attack which will be way more powerful than the unnamed ones. It´s really illogical that Mihawk of all people who is supposedly the strongest among all of those guys would not have named attacks himself. And it´s even more illogical to assume that he would have shown his best at the halfway point of the story especially when we already see stronger attacks from Zoro and Law.


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## Raiden34 (Feb 5, 2018)

Ryuma didn't use any named attack on both Shirano and the dragon, I guess he isn't a swordsman.

Vista didn't use any named attack in MF battle, I guess he was holding back while his friends were getting killed.

Kinemon didn't use any named attack when he cuts a fire, and then a steel door. I guess he isn't a swordsman.

Momonga didn't use a named attack on Luffy. He must be something else.

Hakuba didn't use any named attack, so he must be something else too. Cavendish also didn't use a named attack on Luffy I guess he was holding back against Luffy.

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## Dunno (Feb 5, 2018)

It's clear by Mihawk's posture and the level of exertion on his part that the slash targeted against Whitebeard wasn't his strongest slash. It also made extremely apparent by the fact that it was a ranged slash, and no-one has ever had a strongest attack that was ranged. 

Also, Jozu got the same markings on his face after blocking that slash as Fujitora got after blocking Luffy's punch, so anyone who says that Luffy bruised Fujitora has to agree that Mihawk bruised Jozu as well. 

Also, no one has ever one shot a Yonkou commander that they didn't aim at from kilometres away. For Mihawk's slash to take put Jozu in that situation, he would have to be far stronger than Roger or Whitebeard ever was, which obviously no-one is saying.

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## Quipchaque (Feb 5, 2018)

Erkan12 said:


> Ryuma didn't use any named attack on both Shirano and the dragon, I guess he isn't a swordsman.
> 
> Vista didn't use any named attack in MF battle, I guess he was holding back while his friends were getting killed.
> 
> ...



You are making no sense. Unless you can see the future and tell us that all of those guys will never ever use named attacks it is irrelevant to assume that they can´t. Have you ever heard the saying absence of evidence isn´t evidence of absence? This is basically what applies here. You assume Vista can´t use named attacks even tho his showings were restricted to like what.. 3 panels? Kinemon doesn´t need a named attack to cut fire or a steel door that is such a random example. Same for Momonga can you tell me why he would need a named attack against weakened pre-skip Luffy? Hakuba is barely able to talk normal and disappeared in every showing after like 2 mins. The only legit example you can bring up is Ryuma but even then Ryuma _did_ resort to the named attacks he gained from Brook. Fact of the matter is that there are rarely swordsmen without named attacks in any manga let alone in One Piece. Heck man even Tashigi has named attacks and you want to convince us that Mihawk hasn´t? Not a chance.

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## PwnGoatVSPandaman (Feb 5, 2018)

Dunno said:


> It's clear by Mihawk's posture and the level of exertion on his part that the slash targeted against Whitebeard wasn't his strongest slash. It also made extremely apparent by the fact that it was a ranged slash, and no-one has ever had a strongest attack that was ranged.
> 
> Also, Jozu got the same markings on his face after blocking that slash as Fujitora got after blocking Luffy's punch, so anyone who says that Luffy bruised Fujitora has to agree that Mihawk bruised Jozu as well.
> 
> Also, no one has ever one shot a Yonkou commander that they didn't aim at from kilometres away. For Mihawk's slash to take put Jozu in that situation, he would have to be far stronger than Roger or Whitebeard ever was, which obviously no-one is saying.


1) He was serious, are you expecting him to scream for 20 minutes before shooting off a kamehameha?

2) You mean in the anime? The manga Jozu just stopped that shit like nothing and had no scruff marks, I don't even see dirt on him, there does seem to be some steam or dust though.

3) To put Jozu in that situation? Jozu stopped it like nothing in the manga, ie the true canon.
Chapter 553 for your convenience. Mihawk said he wanted to measure his own strength against Whitebeard's own, he swung his attack, then Jozu easily stopped it and Mihawk frowned because he knew he wasn't shit.

Mihawk probably thought he had a chance of pushing Whitebeard but Jozu made him humble. But hey, pretend the guy who was stalemated by Vista and who's strongest attack was easily dealt with by Jozu can actually hold a candle to yonkou.

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## Dunno (Feb 5, 2018)

PwnGoatVSPandaman said:


> 1) He was serious, are you expecting him to scream for 20 minutes before shooting off a kamehameha?
> 
> 2) You mean in the anime? The manga Jozu just stopped that shit like nothing and had no scruff marks, I don't even see dirt on him, there does seem to be some steam or dust though.
> 
> ...


1) He was serious, that's true. Mihawk is quite the serious person. It wasn't close to being his strongest slash though. That would require him to stand in a more practical stance. Standing straight up with your feet close together is quite ineffective. Also, his strongest slash should tax him at least slightly. 

2) No, I mean in the manga. Look at Jozu's left shoulder and neck in the bottom left panel:  
Now I'm not a proponent that these kinds of marks are damage marks, but it seems like I'm in quite a small minority looking at the number of people who believe that Luffy actually damaged Fujitora. If you believe that Luffy damaged Fujitora, then you should believe that Mihawk damaged Jozu. I don't believe there was any damage involved in either case. 

3) Everyone's ranged attacks always gets stopped. No-one can do anything to anyone worth their salt at that range. You could prove me wrong by showing me a panel of anyone damaging anyone strong at kilometre-range. Come back to me when Shanks defeats Shilliew with one mid-end ranged slash.

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## xmysticgohanx (Feb 5, 2018)

PwnGoatVSPandaman said:


> That's called not knowing an opponent is there. As far as Zoro is concerned, that was him limit breaking like every anime character ever.
> 
> As far as Mihawk, Mihawk swung at Luffy, Daz Bones got in the way, the cut was enough to cut Luffy who was a mid tier, a casual cut. He was going all out against Whitebeard unless you want to make the argument that Jozu is > Whitebeard
> 
> ...


 Any slash that would hurt Luffy should have hurt Daz Bones. Why didn't it? It is because Mihawk did not use the BoS. 

Zoro only hurt Daz Bones because he used the BoS, that was the point of him swinging at the leaves and not hurting them and the point of the scene in general.

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## PwnGoatVSPandaman (Feb 5, 2018)

xmysticgohanx said:


> Any slash that would hurt Luffy should have hurt Daz Bones. Why didn't it? It is because Mihawk did not use the BoS.
> 
> Zoro only hurt Daz Bones because he used the BoS, that was the point of him swinging at the leaves and not hurting them and the point of the scene in general.


That's false, Luffy is essentially just rubber, he had no actual busoshoku. Post timeskip sure, but a fodder could have cut Luffy who was not able to grab the arm/kick the arm, dodge, or grab the sword by both sides between his palms. Ie any blade that hit Luffy would have cut him if it would have cut a regular person.

BoS is fan fiction forum talk, the fact is that it was a skill feat showing him passing his limits. There is no steel cutting feat, simply being strong enough to cut through steel with raw skill/strength, and buso for devil fruits.


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## PwnGoatVSPandaman (Feb 5, 2018)

Dunno said:


> 1) He was serious, that's true. Mihawk is quite the serious person. It wasn't close to being his strongest slash though. That would require him to stand in a more practical stance. Standing straight up with your feet close together is quite ineffective. Also, his strongest slash should tax him at least slightly.
> 
> 2) No, I mean in the manga. Look at Jozu's left shoulder and neck in the bottom left panel:
> Now I'm not a proponent that these kinds of marks are damage marks, but it seems like I'm in quite a small minority looking at the number of people who believe that Luffy actually damaged Fujitora. If you believe that Luffy damaged Fujitora, then you should believe that Mihawk damaged Jozu. I don't believe there was any damage involved in either case.
> ...


1) Swordsman have been shown to be arm users, not leg users. While yes, there is some reasoning for stance in true swordsmanship, we have Zoro doing stuff like cutting ships in half and pica in half but being unable to run much faster than a regular person outside of small flash step bursts of iaido. Swordsmanship in one piece is effectively all technique and upper body strength. Also "tax him", not particularly, Zoro's strongest attacks don't particularly tax him, nor does Jinbei's strongest attack (the one he used against big mom), g4 taxes Luffy but king kong gun not as much, but Luffy's whole shtick is he has finite time in his forms.

2) Those are shadows and the diamond form ending gradually into smaller (above his left eye for example). But yeah, those are pretty much just shadows, not even dust or anything that is common manga. If you look at him before marineford when he was first introduced on whitebeard's ship, you can see he has that shadow thing under his chin and after that incident you can tell he is actually 100% fine.
I can't post the link but it's when Crocodile is rammed by Jozu, no injury like you said persist, only some shadowing.

I don't debate g3 and Ishoo, never have, that being said: Ishoo had shadow over his face but most importantly he had what appears to be a darker thing under his left eye, it is either a very apparent bruise or actually a slightly bloody injury. It's not consistent with the shadows that are already on his face and is distinctly darker just for one place, ie an injury


3) Swordsman mix ranged combat with close range, via air slashes and cqc slashes. Anyway we've seen people get taken out by gunners and stuff multiple times. Also T-Bone's main offense was a ranged attack, Zoro just didn't have ranged attacks till post timeskip is the only thing, it's not much different than a cp9 guy using ranyaku or whatever. Anyway iaido draws and flash steps are just stylish and super anime is why zoro fights usually end with them.


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## xmysticgohanx (Feb 5, 2018)

PwnGoatVSPandaman said:


> BoS is fan fiction forum talk, the fact is that it was a skill feat showing him passing his limits. There is no steel cutting feat, simply being strong enough to cut through steel with raw skill/strength, and buso for devil fruits.


 you need to reread zoro vs daz bones


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## Kai (Feb 6, 2018)

Dunno said:


> 1) He was serious, that's true. Mihawk is quite the serious person. It wasn't close to being his strongest slash though. That would require him to stand in a more practical stance. Standing straight up with your feet close together is quite ineffective. Also, his strongest slash should tax him at least slightly.


While agreed it wasn't Mihawk's single strongest slash, the power came from a serious Mihawk. It was by no means a casual slash.

Mihawk outright stated he wanted to measure the difference between himself and WB. It does not get any clearer than that.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Quipchaque (Feb 6, 2018)

Kai said:


> While agreed it wasn't Mihawk's single strongest slash, the power came from a serious Mihawk. It was by no means a casual slash.
> 
> Mihawk outright stated he wanted to measure the difference between himself and WB. It does not get any clearer than that.



I think it was a really casual slash. You can´t honestly believe that a serious Mihawk barely trumps the power output of current Zoro who is not even going all out. That´s quite optimistic. And there is no reason to assume that Mihawk needs one of his very strongest attacks to measure the gap. He is good at observing people he can probably take a lot away from the reaction a Whitebeard has towards that attack. Like "hmm what level of attack will Whitebeard use to counter this" "is he confident he could tank this with haki?" "will he react in a mocking way or will he recognize it as powerful" "will a subordinate jump in and if so why?" those are all thoughts a Mihawk could have had at that moment and from that alone you can probably get a good grasp how powerful your opposition really is. Don´t underestimate the analytical power of the hawk he´s been implied multiple times to rather hesitate with displaying anything close to his real power. For all we know this was only his strongest base attack and he is holding back a transformation like ashura which then increases his power 10 times.

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## PwnGoatVSPandaman (Feb 6, 2018)

DiscoZoro20 said:


> I think it was a really casual slash. You can´t honestly believe that a serious Mihawk barely trumps the power output of current Zoro who is not even going all out. That´s quite optimistic. And there is no reason to assume that Mihawk needs one of his very strongest attacks to measure the gap. He is good at observing people he can probably take a lot away from the reaction a Whitebeard has towards that attack. Like "hmm what level of attack will Whitebeard use to counter this" "is he confident he could tank this with haki?" "will he react in a mocking way or will he recognize it as powerful" "will a subordinate jump in and if so why?" those are all thoughts a Mihawk could have had at that moment and from that alone you can probably get a good grasp how powerful your opposition really is. Don´t underestimate the analytical power of the hawk he´s been implied multiple times to rather hesitate with displaying anything close to his real power. For all we know this was only his strongest base attack and he is holding back a transformation like ashura which then increases his power 10 times.


Aoe =/= power

Not that it matters, Zoro will be surpassing Mihawk in a few arcs. Most likely by being someone who beats Mihawk. 

Also that's stupid about "not needing his strongest attack to measure", if he doesn't use a serious attack, wb or whoever wouldn't have to go seriously to stop it, meaning it wouldn't matter. Especailly if it wasn't even enough to make Jozu struggle. 

You're making up excuses to wank Mihawk, we get it. The fact is that Mihawk was standstood by Vista and rejected by Jozu. He was serious and he wanted to compare his strength against Whitebeard but when his attack was easily stopped by Jozu you can tell Mihawk is visibly displeased and humbled by his actual reaction after it was stopped. 

If it was casual, he wouldn't have been upset like that, it was a serious attack that was stopped easily by Jozu. But hey, keep pretending MIhawk is yonkou tier based on the fact that he fought Shanks 20 years ago when Shanks was a mid tier.

Mihawk is a cool character, his fans are cancer though.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Winner 1


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## Quipchaque (Feb 7, 2018)

PwnGoatVSPandaman said:


> Aoe =/= power
> 
> Not that it matters, Zoro will be surpassing Mihawk in a few arcs. Most likely by being someone who beats Mihawk.
> 
> ...



if aoe is not power for a swordsman (in most cases like for Zoro and Mihawk) then how come the stronger attacks of both characters were always the bigger ones? There isn´t even any other way to measure the attack strength of their air slashes so yeah I heavily disagree with that.

Exactly as you said. "In a few arcs" so why do you think Mihawk´s most powerful attacks are comparable to a held back Zoro already? And Jozu struggling or not is a really bad argument to downplay Mihawk. He is tailor-made to block a swordsman you might as well argue that Kizaru looks bad because Marco can no-sell his currently strongest base attack with regeneration. And nothing about Mihawk´s reaction looked humbled. I do not know where you get that from when looking at a picture that just shows the stereotypical emotionless face of Mihawk. Well keep pretending Mihawk is equal to Vista. I believe he either beats Vista lower end of high-diff or higher end of mid-diff. That is already huge credit to a character that is at most 3.strongest yonko commander against a character more than likely above admiral level. But what do I know I´m just wanking and you are the smart one.


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## xmysticgohanx (Feb 7, 2018)

why y'all still arguing this when I ended the thread already


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## PwnGoatVSPandaman (Feb 7, 2018)

DiscoZoro20 said:


> if aoe is not power for a swordsman (in most cases like for Zoro and Mihawk) then how come the stronger attacks of both characters were always the bigger ones? There isn´t even any other way to measure the attack strength of their air slashes so yeah I heavily disagree with that.
> 
> Exactly as you said. "In a few arcs" so why do you think Mihawk´s most powerful attacks are comparable to a held back Zoro already? And Jozu struggling or not is a really bad argument to downplay Mihawk. He is tailor-made to block a swordsman you might as well argue that Kizaru looks bad because Marco can no-sell his currently strongest base attack with regeneration. And nothing about Mihawk´s reaction looked humbled. I do not know where you get that from when looking at a picture that just shows the stereotypical emotionless face of Mihawk. Well keep pretending Mihawk is equal to Vista. I believe he either beats Vista lower end of high-diff or higher end of mid-diff. That is already huge credit to a character that is at most 3.strongest yonko commander against a character more than likely above admiral level. But what do I know I´m just wanking and you are the smart one.


Are you trying to say that Mihawk's larger attacks are stronger to argue that Mihawk's larger attacks are stronger?

Also larger =/= stronger for Zoro, so you have 0 swordsman who are confirmed to have their strongest attack being their largest aoe.

Meanwhile there are multiple established swordsman like daz bones, kaku, cavendish, kyros, etc etc who aren't just large aoe attackers.

We have a way to measure how serious Mihawk was, by his own words and the utter disappointment/humbling Mihawk clearly was shown to have after Jozu blocked his attack.

Zoro hasn't held back, he struggled to find the real Pica since he's weak leg wise and is all upper body strength so he couldn't ger around quickly, his specialty isn't kenbunshoku but buso, and pica was moving around a lot within the pica golem. Zoro was serious, maybe he didn't use his strongest attack but he was 100% serious, he 100% needed help to end it, not because he met his match, but because it was a horrible match up for him.

"He is tailor-made to block a swordsman"
No he's not, a punch or bullet wouldn't do any better than a sword slash. He's just a powerful top tier with powerful buso, raw strength, defense, and a powerful devil fruit.

Marco vs Kizaru went as so:
Kizaru shot beams at Whitebeard
Marco used high speed rotations in a circular motion to create a gust of wind/vacuum of wind that had a powerful force that ultimately stopped Kizaru's beam spam and since it had nowhere to go it collapsed into itself and made a giant ball of light.
Marco and Kizaru troll talked each other.
Marco started to fly towards Kizaru, Kizaru shot at him helplessly as Marco has intangibility and they weren't haki-ified attacks.
Marco then when he got close attempted to kick Kizaru, Kizaru blocked it but Marco pushed through the block to send Kizaru flying into marineford. Kizaru turned intangible so that he wouldn't suffer crashing damage.
Marco turned his attention away to Whitebeard cuz he was suffering a heart attack and stuff and he was planning on helping but then Kizaru shot him when he wasn't focusing so he wasn't intangible.
Marco then went "i'm focusing on you now" and got blindsided by a vice admiral with seastone and got shot again by Kizaru.

Marco only really used healing when garp hit him and the free attacks Kizaru got on Marco.

Mihawk didn't looked humbled? He was frowning like someone who thought he was yonkou tier (cuz top tiers never really fight each other as evidenced by whole cake island arc) who realized he's barely top commander leveled. He visibly frowned and got quiet, it wasn't emotionless, he was actually frowning.

You just wank Mihawk is the problem, the fans, not the character is bad. Mihawk is just a Vista leveled top tier who was stalemated by Vista and was humbled by Jozu.

Mihawk literally doesn't have a single feat that puts him on admiral level, it's just people going "oh he stalemated shanks 15-20 years ago"

3 years ago Arlong was stronger than Luffy. Within 3 years Luffy will be pirate king.

Arlong isn't stronger than pirate king level. Both were equal back then and had different growth rates, Mihawk peaked at low top tier and Shanks peaked at yonkou leveled.

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## Quipchaque (Feb 7, 2018)

PwnGoatVSPandaman said:


> Are you trying to say that Mihawk's larger attacks are stronger to argue that Mihawk's larger attacks are stronger?
> 
> Also larger =/= stronger for Zoro, so you have 0 swordsman who are confirmed to have their strongest attack being their largest aoe.



No I´m not? No idea how you come to such a weird conclusion. In any case if what you said is true are you also going to say that 1080 pound cannon is weaker than 108 pound cannon? I doubt it. Do you believe if Zoro uses ashura his aoe becomes lower? Again I doubt it. Are the small air slashes Mihawk threw at Luffy mid-fight stronger than the ice-wave cut and the attack he threw at Whitebeard? Again the answer is no. So stop pretending that AoE means nothing in both of these characters cases- it clearly does. Also there is no doubt that Oda drew that Mihawk attack against Whitebeard as big as it is because he wants us to think that the increased size means it is more powerful. Do not pretend that is not true you know it is. So clearly he wants us to see aoe as a good indicator of strength for Mihawk´s and Zoro´s attacks. It´s no coincidence that a Zoro cuts Pica with daizen Sekai that just cut a monstrous golem minutes before instead of an attack like Shishi Sonson.



> Meanwhile there are multiple established swordsman like daz bones, kaku, cavendish, kyros, etc etc who aren't just large aoe attackers.
> 
> We have a way to measure how serious Mihawk was, by his own words and the utter disappointment/humbling Mihawk clearly was shown to have after Jozu blocked his attack.



Huh? Daz bones is obviously not a swordsman and clearly his attacks are also all about aoe as we´ve seen when he cut buildings and other stuff as a side-effect. Cavendish isn´t known to be a power type of fighter he is a speed fighter so bad example. Kaku´s strongest attack is conveniently the only one that cut the whole tower of justice- so again wrong. Kyros is also a speed based fighter who is about dodging bullets, never getting injured and all that stuff he never showcased any power-type attack like air slashes so another pointless example.



> Zoro hasn't held back, he struggled to find the real Pica since he's weak leg wise and is all upper body strength so he couldn't ger around quickly, his specialty isn't kenbunshoku but buso, and pica was moving around a lot within the pica golem. Zoro was serious, maybe he didn't use his strongest attack but he was 100% serious, he 100% needed help to end it, not because he met his match, but because it was a horrible match up for him.



You are pretty much arguing semantics here. You are fully aware to the fact that I´m refering to Zoro not using ashura. So yes he was not giving 100% which was the whole point of the argument. If Zoro rivals Mihawk´s attack without even using his best move then you know there is something suspicious going on with Mihawk.



> "He is tailor-made to block a swordsman"
> No he's not, a punch or bullet wouldn't do any better than a sword slash. He's just a powerful top tier with powerful buso, raw strength, defense, and a powerful devil fruit.



Oh yes a punch would most definitely fare better. Have you ever heard of a knife that cuts diamond? I haven´t. On the contrary you can even break a diamond with a hammer. This is common sense and everyone who did his homework knows that. Aruging against this is like arguing against the obvious that Aokiji would be a better match-up against Marco than an Akainu or Kizaru.




> Marco vs Kizaru went as so:
> Kizaru shot beams at Whitebeard
> Marco used high speed rotations in a circular motion to create a gust of wind/vacuum of wind that had a powerful force that ultimately stopped Kizaru's beam spam and since it had nowhere to go it collapsed into itself and made a giant ball of light.
> Marco and Kizaru troll talked each other.
> ...



I don´t care one bit how this fight went the point still remains. If you argue that Mihawk looked bad because he got blocked by a convenient ability made for defense then you have to argue the same for Kizaru. No excuses allowed.



> Mihawk didn't looked humbled? He was frowning like someone who thought he was yonkou tier (cuz top tiers never really fight each other as evidenced by whole cake island arc) who realized he's barely top commander leveled. He visibly frowned and got quiet, it wasn't emotionless, he was actually frowning.
> 
> You just wank Mihawk is the problem, the fans, not the character is bad. Mihawk is just a Vista leveled top tier who was stalemated by Vista and was humbled by Jozu.



Where do you get from that he was frowning when all we see is a close-up of his face? And why does it matter? Is Mihawk the type of guy that would get all angry and suddenly charge at Jozu screaming like a mad-man? Is he the type of guy that talks a lot and gives long speeches when you block his attacks? No so I don´t know why you seriously want to pretend his reaction is all that unexpected and telling.

I do not wank Mihawk at all. You won´t hear me say that I am 100% sure that he is stronger than Shanks, and Mihawk being in the same ball-park as Shanks and other top tiers is a widely accepted consensus. So you are pretty much calling like 90% of the One Piece community wankers now. I can pretty much count the amount of people who share that opinion that he´s Vista level (based on like 3 panels? wow) with you while there are thousands of people who would tell you otherwise so there is clearly something wrong with that opinion.



> Mihawk literally doesn't have a single feat that puts him on admiral level, it's just people going "oh he stalemated shanks 15-20 years ago"
> 
> 3 years ago Arlong was stronger than Luffy. Within 3 years Luffy will be pirate king.
> 
> Arlong isn't stronger than pirate king level. Both were equal back then and had different growth rates, Mihawk peaked at low top tier and Shanks peaked at yonkou leveled.



That´s funny just a few sentences ago you said "mihawk is a *Vista leveled Top Tier*". Now you are suddenly saying he is not even admiral level. So wait are top tiers not admiral level according to you? Funny man. very funny.

And comparing Arlong to Mihawk is just a joke. Mihawk is a respected active fighter with a world title only rivaled by other yonko and Dragon and who has been acknowledged by Whitebeard and Shanks. Saying that Arlong´s case who never received any hype like that would be comparable to Mihawk is just pure trolling. Mihawk´s the type of guy who won´t be satisfied with his strength until he is at the top of his game and his world title and the desire to find someone who in his opinion is more worthy than a one-armed yonko pretty much reflects that. You ain´t gonna convince anyone that he sat on his bum for 10 years satisfied with being a low-top tier. He would be dead at this point given that he is a loner if his strength peaks at that.


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## PwnGoatVSPandaman (Feb 7, 2018)

DiscoZoro20 said:


> No I´m not? No idea how you come to such a weird conclusion. In any case if what you said is true are you also going to say that 1080 pound cannon is weaker than 108 pound cannon? I doubt it. Do you believe if Zoro uses ashura his aoe becomes lower? Again I doubt it. Are the small air slashes Mihawk threw at Luffy mid-fight stronger than the ice-wave cut and the attack he threw at Whitebeard? Again the answer is no. So stop pretending that AoE means nothing in both of these characters cases- it clearly does. Also there is no doubt that Oda drew that Mihawk attack against Whitebeard as big as it is because he wants us to think that the increased size means it is more powerful. Do not pretend that is not true you know it is. So clearly he wants us to see aoe as a good indicator of strength for Mihawk´s and Zoro´s attacks. It´s no coincidence that a Zoro cuts Pica with daizen Sekai that just cut a monstrous golem minutes before instead of an attack like Shishi Sonson.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That's pretty bad, you specifically stated Zoro and Mihawk are people who have their strongest attacks as bigger aoe skills, then you deny that you used Mihawk as evidence to prove Mihawk's strongest attack is his largest aoe attack. You objectively did use your conclusion to defend your conclusion.

 Asura is a power up, and yes Zoro could realistically defeat larger aoe attacks with a simple sword swing. The fact is that aoe is only really used to destroy large things or attack large groups, stuff like ship cuts. Aoe is also used to demonstrate power. Like in dragon ball, you have people like cell confirmed as solar system busters but then you have people infinitely stronger only destroying a mountain with their finishers. Aoe is just a "oh wow he destroyed a mountain", but every large attack won't be aoe focused. Comparing the same technique of varying degrees of power is pretty silly. But yeah in anime there is something called condensed power, while something like Mihawk's best attempt at comparing himself versus whitebeard got no sold but Jozu, an attack from another character that doesn't involve hax could effectively deal with Jozu's defense without having the same scale of aoe. Like I said earlier, a Red Hawk would run through Zoro's ship cutting and mountain cutting techniques without itself creating that much devastation of aoe. It's pretty much anime aoe, how you want to describe it is up to you, but it's a fact you'll have to admit. Call it condensed power or whatever, but it's a reality of this medium. John Giant swinging down at Whitebeard created more aoe than the counter force Whitebeard used to successfully block the technique. Cracker would overwhelm characters with vastly more aoe than he has shown.

Daz Bones is a swordsman
Cavendish blocked pre retirement Chinjao's forehead attack and held him up in the air, that's arguably a stronger strength feat than any Zoro has shown to date even though it had no aoe. Just because Cavendish speed blitzes the fuck out of everyone doesn't mean he's not physically a monster in strength.
Kyros isn't a speed based fighter, he's a pure raw strength fighter, heck I'd almost argue that his fighting style is more raw strength focused than swordsmanship focused. He was fast for short spurts after he returned but he mainly took advantage of his puppet body to move quickly prior to it, he was an absolute upper body strength monster, doing stuff like breaking the neck of the one doflamingo pirate with his bare hands. 
"never showed any air slashes"
That's literally my point, he doesn't have aoe but he's physically a monster. Like you're literally agreeing and pointing out things that I say, but somehow disagree with the facts you yourself are providing.

Asura is a complete unknown, he might not even be able to use it and maybe it'll be an end of series thing that he'll develop and that he showed signs of previously. Zoro by all evidence by his demeaner and all that, was using his strongest attacks and required help to get the better of Pica.

Jozu isn't going to shatter if you punch him, also you are saying hammer, not fist. But yeah, make up your mind, do you actually think that regular diamonds are stopping mountain cutting slashes from cutting Jozu in half? Yes you might be unable to break a diamond yourself with a knife, but a mountain cutting slash? Easily. As far as devil fruit functionality is concerned, if you got the diamond fruit and had no mastery of it, you'd be as durable as diamonds, however when you develop the power more and get stronger/more mastery of the devil fruit, you are still turning to "Diamonds" but you are vastly increasing the quality of said diamond defense. Then throw in stuff like busoshoku, raw top tier defense/durability/willpower, and some other things.
Not to mention it's not like Jozu turned to diamonds and just stand there, he physically overpowered the slash, not being displaced from the position he was in at all, so yeah, the diamonds didn't even particularly stop the slash, Jozu did. If he didn't have the raw strength to overpower the slash, he would have been sent flying even if maybe the diamonds would protect him from the cutting aspect of the slash. Not that it matters, would an air slash with so much volume/density even be considered a slash anymore? Wouldn't it be pure blunt force that can push through objects via raw power? So that "air slash" is effectively just a giant fist.

Jozu stood in place and physically overpowered Mihawk's strongest slash that was meant to test his own strength against Whitebeard, then he frowned cuz of his failure, extremely humbled and disappointing in his own lack of power, if he didn't overpower it, he'd have been sent flying even if his diamonds protected him from being cut into. Not that it matters, your argument is that diamonds are bad against larger surface sized attacks like cuts, while the attack was arguably bigger than Jozu, meaning the devil fruit might not even come into play, Jozu might have just raw out just grabbed the attack and went "nope" 

The fact that Mihawk has a very pronounced frown when it showed him in like a mid shot if I recall correctly (shot wise)
Like extremely pronounced, like overly frowning. It wasn't a default expression by any means like in your gif. You do know what a frown is right? Smile = curved up, flat expression = straight line, frown = curved down
He was making a clear frown, which heavily contrasts a flat expression you are claiming he was making. He was visibly upset.

Claiming Mihawk is stronger than his feats = wank
Claiming Mihawk is still Shanks equal = wank

You can count the amount of people who believe he's Vista leveled? So what? Do you think that more people agreeing with you justifies your argument? Argumentum ad populum, a pretty basic logical fallacy.

Vista and Mihawk were portrayed equally both verbally and by their fight.
Jozu was portrayed physically superior to both Vista and Mihawk.

Mihawk has no superior feats beyond those two situations, his only other feats were at one time stalemating multiple times a mid tier shanks when both were in their teens or 20's and doing stuff pre timeskip that Zoro could replicate now.

Heck have we even seen Mihawk post timeskip? For all we know he might already be dead, killed by Zoro or someone else.

Those top tier and not even admiral level are consistent. Top tier pretty much is everyone from Doflamingo up to Prime Whitebeard and Roger.
Just like how high tier is everyone from the weakest vice admirals up to around Law, Smoker, and Vergo.

Admirals are around mid top tier.
Vista is low top tier, probably stronger than Doflamingo by a bit, but not by much. Heck even if we go on portrayal, Doflamingo was the parallel to Mihawk in all their encounters within the shichibukai. Weevil is arguably stronger than Mihawk.

Actually comparing Arlong to Mihawk is a joke because Arlong has fought Luffy even more recently than Mihawk has fought Shanks. If you compare the two, Arlong comes out looking better based on chronological battles. Not to mention Arlong was stronger than Luffy while Mihawk was only equal to Shanks back then. Mihawk got stronger, but not at the rate of Shanks (or at least he peaked earlier than Shanks did). Also I'm fully expecting villains like Crocodile, Moriah, Arlong, etc to come back and be varying degrees of top tier when Luffy is reaching top top tier level. Also world title only rivaled by other yonkou and dragon? WHo was acknowledged by Whitebeard and Shanks? What does the world's strongest swordsman title actually mean? It means he hasn't been beaten by another swordsman. Who are the top swordsman in the world? Mihawk? Vista? Shanks? Kin'emon? Oden who died years ago before Mihawk even was a high tier?

Kaidou isn't a swordsman
Big Mom isn't a swordsman
Blackbeard isn't a swordsman
Whitebeard wasn't a swordsman
Shanks hasn't fought Mihawk in like 20 years, so the title is pointless there as well
Vista has never met Mihawk until Marineford despite being one of the big names in swordsmanship and being able to effectively stalemate Mihawk.
Who is even actively fighting Mihawk? People like Don Krieg who shichibukai deal with to keep piracy down? Vista didn't even seem particularly interested in fighting Mihawk for the title even. Zoro to date is the only person who gives a shit about the world's strongest swordsman title besides literal fodder who's job it is is to whine "omg it's the world's strongest swordsman", I don't even think Mihawk cares about the title. Also Kin'emon doesn't give a shit about the title either.

Whitebeard didn't acknowledge Mihawk, Shanks is old friends/rivals with Mihawk so of course he'd acknowledge him, are we going to pretend that Vista is a nobody anyway? Mihawk acknowledged Vista.
Whitebeard fucking acknowledged pre timeskip Luffy who was a mid tier.

Mihawk is at the top of his game, he peaked at Vista leveled. Also "won't be satisfied with his strength until he is at the top of his game", what? Are we even talking about the same Mihawk? Mihawk literally sits alone in a gothic castle drinking wine and floating around in a coffin defeating fodder in paradise and the blues with his free time. You can't make shit up like character traits that characters don't have, Mihawk is arguably lazy, and at best he's like Aokiji: goes with the wind.


No low top tier went "oh well I could be yonkou leveled, but meh, I'll be lazy and just settle", they just were physically unable to reach those heights that other characters did. Jack never went "well, time to retire from getting stronger", characters just have limits and so forth. This isn't like when people can grind in a jrpg to level 9999 if they give it time, this is like when people physically reach their peak limits in like real life martial arts. 

Luffy is going to be a top top tier because of a mix of:
Amazing heredity: Monkey family which not only makes bad asses who are superhuman, but also seems to be special beyond that, stuff like the voice of all seems like it's passed down in family (maybe royal family of the void century)
Tons of training
Will of D
A rare individual with a super powerful haoshoku (which comes into play his character traits that give him this ability)
Exceptional genius in combat, stuff like seeing soru and coming up with a way to replicate it and then some with g2, being able to conceptualize kenbunshoku on such a high level that he's about to master future sight, etc etc
A very versatile devil fruit that allows his creative genius to flourish, allowing him to use forms like g2, g3, and g4, along with I believe the ability to use either mink lightning or Uranus's lightning with no limitations while getting up close himself (due to him being rubber)
etc etc

If top tiers or high tiers had the ability to surpass a yonkou in strength, they would do it. Kaidou is pushing past his limits seemingly through the implementation of artificial devil fruits and also supplying his army with them, along with using weapons of mass destruction. But yeah, Mihawk's only goal right now seems to be to train Zoro up to defeat him.

Saying he'd be dead if he's not a yonkou in strength is silly, there are a bunch of mid tiers in the new world and characters like the minks who aren't under yonkou control, then you factor in that Mihawk has been in paradise and the blues for most of his time and that he works for the marines.

No one gives a shit about going after Mihawk but fodder and Zoro.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Quipchaque (Feb 7, 2018)

@PwnGoatVSPandaman

Honestly I can´t be bothered to read all this let alone go into detail about it. I saw glances of the text like you saying it´s wank when anyone says Mihawk is on par with Shanks or "no one gives a shit about the title" without factual prove for that. Let alone that silly talk to justify that Mihawk´s and Zoro´s attacks were not comparable when they clearly were. You are just in denial, get over it. Also it´s funny that you still call me a Mihawk wanker even tho I already admitted that I think Shanks is slightly stronger but I guess some people just can´t be pleased at all. Besides it´s even more funny considering that another guy called me a Shanks wanker just 2 weeks ago when I defended him. You guys are really disrespectful and go to incredible extremes just to say "oh my favourite character is so much better than yours".

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## PwnGoatVSPandaman (Feb 7, 2018)

DiscoZoro20 said:


> @PwnGoatVSPandaman
> 
> Honestly I can´t be bothered to read all this let alone go into detail about it. I saw glances of the text like you saying it´s wank when anyone says Mihawk is on par with Shanks or "no one gives a shit about the title" without factual prove for that. Let alone that silly talk to justify that Mihawk´s and Zoro´s attacks were not comparable when they clearly were. You are just in denial, get over it. Also it´s funny that you still call me a Mihawk wanker even tho I already admitted that I think Shanks is slightly stronger but I guess some people just can´t be pleased at all. Besides it´s even more funny considering that another guy called me a Shanks wanker just 2 weeks ago when I defended him. You guys are really disrespectful and go to incredible extremes just to say "oh my favourite character is so much better than yours".


The two best swordsman we know of haven't fought Mihawk, Shiryuu has been in prison for years and Mihawk has been training Zoro since he got out. 

Let's go through the swordsman:

Shanks: Hasn't fought Mihawk and it's required to beat Mihawk to become the best swordsman, not simply being a better swordsman
Vista: Had never met Mihawk up until their clash at marineford, they'd simply heard of each other's reputations
Oden: Dead before Mihawk would have gotten the title and he was arguably Roger tier
Shiryuu: Was in jail and since he's gotten out, he's been helping Blackbeard in the new world while Mihawk has been in paradise training Zoro
Kin'emon: A high tier and I imagine if he's ever met Mihawk, it was years ago.
Zoro: Might have already beaten Mihawk, but maybe not.
Daz Bones: Is probably stronger now due to how willpower and drive increase power and he's crocodile's first mate who will probably return a top tier, so I expect Daz Bones to kind of rival Zoro in power post timeskip, though Mihawk is either dead now and he's been training Zoro, or whatever, only fought Mihawk pre timeskip
Kaku: Same situation except never fought Mihawk


So out of those 8 swordsman, only 1 of those characters gives a shit about defeating Mihawk and that's Zoro. 3 of those characters were too weak pre timeskip to even matter. (zoro, daz bones, and kaku)
1 was too busy worrying about Wano (kin'emon)
One has been in jail for years (shiryuu, he might want to kill mihawk and if mihawk is alive he probably will)
One is dead and is pretty much confirmed >>>>>>>>>>>>> Mihawk (oden)
One had never met Mihawk a second of his life until he stalemated him (Vista)
And one hasn't fought Mihawk for like 20 years (Shanks)


Now there are people who want to defeat Mihawk, but they are utter fodder, like the 2 okama swordsman who didn't have names who challenged Mihawk at marineford. Top tiers who give a shit about Mihawk? None until post timeskip at least (shiryuu) High tiers who care about Mihawk? None until post timeskip at least (Zoro, Daz Bones, and Kaku)


Shichibukai literally are tasked with defeating up and coming pirates in paradise, they aren't out there fighting yonkou and top commanders.

Shanks is vastly stronger than Mihawk, Shanks is arguably a top end top tier, Mihawk barely makes top tier. 

I provided actual evidence to make my argument that Mihawk is only Vista leveled, you've ignored everything I said and then tried to call me "rude"

Ultimately being a top commander level is nothing to fret at, they are among the strongest characters in the one piece world even if Luffy is going through them nowadays. But Luffy is about to breach into yonkou territory when he gets another powerup or two. (after future sight kenbunshoku, another 1 or 2)

Mihawk might honestly have been defeated by Zoro already, he hasn't been seen post timeskip and Zoro hasn't really mentioned it, it'd be like Zoro to not brag about becoming the world's strongest swordsman. I mean Sanji surpassed Ivankov at the end of his training (to get the last recipe) 

Overall Rayleigh > Mihawk > Ivankov though so Luffy not surpassing Rayleigh yet makes sense, even after getting future sight kenbunshoku.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## shisuiuchiha5 (Feb 12, 2018)

PwnGoatVSPandaman said:


> Jozu > Thatch > Vista = Mihawk
> 
> Mihawk "Let me test my power against wb"
> > Gets no diffed rejected with his strongest attack against Jozu
> ...



how is thatch stronger than mihawk?

Reactions: Like 1 | Disagree 1


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## PwnGoatVSPandaman (Feb 12, 2018)

shisuiuchiha5 said:


> how is thatch stronger than mihawk?


Because Mihawk is Vista's equal.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Dunno (Feb 13, 2018)

PwnGoatVSPandaman said:


> Because Mihawk is Vista's equal.


And Chopper is Big Mom's equal.

Brook > Big Mom = Jinbei = Chopper > G4 Luffy

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Quipchaque (Feb 13, 2018)

Dunno said:


> And Chopper is Big Mom's equal.
> 
> Brook > Big Mom = Jinbei = Chopper > G4 Luffy



You forgot Monet is also equal to Zoro and Zoro is stronger than Brook so put Monet and Zoro at the beginning of that chain.


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## Dunno (Feb 13, 2018)

DiscoZoro20 said:


> You forgot Monet is also equal to Zoro and Zoro is stronger than Brook so put Monet and Zoro at the beginning of that chain.


And let's not forget that Tashigi beat Monet, so we end up with:
Tashigi > Monet > Zoro > Ryuuma > Brook > Big Mom = Jinbei = Chopper > Luffy

Seems legit.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Quipchaque (Feb 13, 2018)

Dunno said:


> And let's not forget that Tashigi beat Monet, so we end up with:
> Tashigi > Monet > Zoro > Ryuuma > Brook > Big Mom = Jinbei = Chopper > Luffy
> 
> Seems legit.


 
This will be the greatest tier list ever.


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## PwnGoatVSPandaman (Feb 13, 2018)

Dunno said:


> And Chopper is Big Mom's equal.
> 
> Brook > Big Mom = Jinbei = Chopper > G4 Luffy


So Chopper puff balling a super casual malnourished big mom makes him equal compared to Vista and Mihawk fighting for a duration of a few minutes and both hyping each other up equally and both having one point against the other, and Mihawk prior to it having his strongest attack no sold by Jo;zu.

Get over it, Mihawk is Vista tier and Mihawk might already be dead.

Reactions: Funny 1 | Optimistic 1


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## DoctorLaw (Feb 14, 2018)

PwnGoatVSPandaman said:


> So Chopper puff balling a super casual malnourished big mom makes him equal compared to Vista and Mihawk fighting for a duration of a few minutes and both hyping each other up equally and both having one point against the other, and Mihawk prior to it having his strongest attack no sold by Jozu.
> 
> Get over it, Mihawk is Vista tier and Mihawk might already be dead.



Mihawk has already been confirmed to be alive.


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## PwnGoatVSPandaman (Feb 14, 2018)

DoctorLaw said:


> Mihawk has already been confirmed to be alive.


Where? He wasn't hasn't been on panel.
If he lost it'd be at the butt end of the training when Zoro was where he is now.

Be it versus Zoro or someone who came in post Mihawk training so zoro could get what he needed out of Mihawk training.


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## DoctorLaw (Feb 14, 2018)

PwnGoatVSPandaman said:


> Where? He wasn't hasn't been on panel.
> If he lost it'd be at the butt end of the training when Zoro was where he is now.
> 
> Be it versus Zoro or someone who came in post Mihawk training so zoro could get what he needed out of Mihawk training.



Cover story chapter 826. He's wearing a straw hat and everything. Both eyes too, pissed a lot of people off because of their Zoro eye theories, but a sharingan and the teenage angst that comes with it would just ruin this story.


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## shisuiuchiha5 (Feb 19, 2018)

PwnGoatVSPandaman said:


> So Chopper puff balling a super casual malnourished big mom makes him equal compared to Vista and Mihawk fighting for a duration of a few minutes and both hyping each other up equally and both having one point against the other, and Mihawk prior to it having his strongest attack no sold by Jo;zu.
> 
> Get over it, Mihawk is Vista tier and Mihawk might already be dead.



And yet it was mihawk who ended up being the world's Strongest swordsman,while shanks could not.mihawk was not even looking at vista while fighting him.

Reactions: Like 1 | Disagree 1


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## PwnGoatVSPandaman (Feb 20, 2018)

shisuiuchiha5 said:


> And yet it was mihawk who ended up being the world's Strongest swordsman,while shanks could not.mihawk was not even looking at vista while fighting him.


Mihawk wasn't stronger than Shanks 20 years ago, they were rivals, and since then Shanks has gotten vastly stronger and they haven't fought since then. Stop trying to justify this, you have to defeat the strongest swordsman to become the strongest swordsman, it's not a mmo where a title comes up with whoever is the strongest.

1) Shanks hasn't fought him since Shanks was a mid tier
2) Vista had never met Mihawk and Vista along with Mihawk weren't anywhere near each other during the timeskip
3) Other swordsman are in yonkou territory while Mihawk has been in a castle and in paradise

Who's going to defeat Mihawk? Daz Bones? A vice admiral for fun? Kaku? Those 2 cross dresser fodder?

The simple fact is that Mihawk doesn't fight top swordsman and no one has shown any interest in the title but fodder and Zoro.

Vista and Mihawk were casual at first and then had a clash off panel and both apparently were 1 point in, they were painted as nothing else but equals. Vista stalemated Mihawk and Jozu no sold his strongest attack.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## shisuiuchiha5 (Feb 20, 2018)

PwnGoatVSPandaman said:


> The two best swordsman we know of haven't fought Mihawk, Shiryuu has been in prison for years and Mihawk has been training Zoro since he got out.
> 
> Let's go through the swordsman:
> 
> ...



Mihawk is the strongest swordsman because oda has crowned him as the world's Strongest swordsman.the rest which you stated are below mihawk

Reactions: Like 1 | Disagree 1


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## PwnGoatVSPandaman (Feb 20, 2018)

shisuiuchiha5 said:


> Mihawk is the strongest swordsman because oda has crowned him as the world's Strongest swordsman.the rest which you stated are below mihawk


He's the strongest swordsman because everyone stronger than him doesn't give a shit about him or his title.
He's a top tier, but a low top tier, barely stronger than Doflamingo, if even.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Optimistic 1


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## shisuiuchiha5 (Feb 20, 2018)

PwnGoatVSPandaman said:


> Aoe =/= power
> 
> Not that it matters, Zoro will be surpassing Mihawk in a few arcs. Most likely by being someone who beats Mihawk.
> 
> ...



20 years ago or more,Shanks was a scrubb on Roger's crew and did not even reach his prime,also why would their fighting "echo through whole Grand line" if they were both mid tier ,low tiers or rookies ?Even WB said that their fights were legendary. Those fights stopped around 12 years ago,but they didn't start while Shanks was on Roger's crew.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Dunno (Feb 20, 2018)

PwnGoatVSPandaman said:


> He's the strongest swordsman because everyone stronger than him doesn't give a shit about him or his title.
> He's a top tier, but a low top tier, barely stronger than Doflamingo, if even.


Oda disagrees with you.

Reactions: Like 2


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## PwnGoatVSPandaman (Feb 21, 2018)

Dunno said:


> Oda disagrees with you.


No he doesn't, you are just simple minded.


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## PwnGoatVSPandaman (Feb 21, 2018)

shisuiuchiha5 said:


> 20 years ago or more,Shanks was a scrubb on Roger's crew and did not even reach his prime,also why would their fighting "echo through whole Grand line" if they were both mid tier ,low tiers or rookies ?Even WB said that their fights were legendary. Those fights stopped around 12 years ago,but they didn't start while Shanks was on Roger's crew.


That's literally my point, Shanks and Mihawk were rivals and fought when Shanks was a mid and/or high tier.

Shanks was crew member in Roger's crew, albeit a cabin boy.

Shanks was a high tier 12 year ago.


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## Dunno (Feb 21, 2018)

PwnGoatVSPandaman said:


> No he doesn't, you are just simple minded.


World's strongest swordsman.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Kai (Feb 21, 2018)

Mihawk beats Jozu high diff due to match up. He'd definitely get beat down by Jozu+Vista together.


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## PwnGoatVSPandaman (Feb 22, 2018)

Kai said:


> Mihawk beats Jozu high diff due to match up. He'd definitely get beat down by Jozu+Vista together.


Lol no, Vista stalemated Mihawk and Jozu no sold him, Jozu would body Mihawk.


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## PwnGoatVSPandaman (Feb 22, 2018)

Dunno said:


> World's strongest swordsman.


> Hadn't met Vista till marineford and hasn't seen him since, Vista standstood him there
> Hasn't fought Shanks in 15-20 years since Shanks was a high tier
> Likely has never met Kinemon
> Ishoo is arguably weaker than Cracker and only due to his devil fruit which might be new

What swordsman has Mihawk actually beaten? Pre timeskip Zoro, Daz Bones (pre timeskip), and 2 fodder okama?

If you don't fight or meet any stronger fighters, you don't get beat by stronger fighters, which means you retain your title. Mihawk's title is the least tested thing after stds, he literally sits in paradise hiding behind his shichibukai title while flirting with perona in his lonely gothic styled castle drinking wine all day. Yonkou commanders don't give a shit about him or his pathetic title.


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## TheWiggian (Feb 22, 2018)

Mihawk is just as dead as Snack being recruited by Urouge or being his spy now hahahahaha.

WSS > any swordsman alive


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## PwnGoatVSPandaman (Feb 22, 2018)

TheWiggian said:


> Mihawk is just as dead as Snack being recruited by Urouge or being his spy now hahahahaha.
> 
> WSS > any swordsman alive


You're full of shit, he got tied by Vista and got no sold by Jozu but he's beating Shanks? Lol.

But you won't listen to reason cuz you're a failure.


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## TheWiggian (Feb 22, 2018)

PwnGoatVSPandaman said:


> You're full of shit, he got tied by Vista and got no sold by Jozu but he's beating Shanks? Lol.
> 
> But you won't listen to reason cuz you're a failure.



Snack was recruited by Urouge man, what are you talking about?

Reactions: Funny 1


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## DoctorLaw (Feb 22, 2018)

PwnGoatVSPandaman said:


> You're full of shit, he got tied by Vista and got no sold by Jozu but he's beating Shanks? Lol.
> 
> But you won't listen to reason cuz you're a failure.



Your arguments for why Mihawk isn't top tier are starting to go against each other these last few pages.

Mihawk swings his sword and a side character says, "look the strongest swing in the world," and that's proof Mihawk went all out, but Mihawk being referred to as the WSS by multiple side characters is bullshit.

Speaking of character words which may or may not hold significance for you, how about all of the top brass in the marines and the shichibukai reactions to Mihawk actually bothering to fight. Many characters at the war of the strongest seemed to think his title matched his power.

And as for this Vista being his equal thing, no. They were having a duel. That's what Mihawk's character revolves around, and naturally he doesn't back down from a challenge. He didn't murder him in seconds because Vista is a competent swordsman, and high tiers aren't autoraped by top tiers. It makes sense he can hold his ground against a stronger swordsman, if Jozu and Marco could at least stop the admirals for a portion of time.

Admirals/Yonkou are not gods people. They can be challenged by high tiers the same way Luffy fought someone clearly above him and did decently. They can't be beaten by high tiers, but they can certainly be forced to put in effort.


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## Dunno (Feb 22, 2018)

PwnGoatVSPandaman said:


> > Hadn't met Vista till marineford and hasn't seen him since, Vista standstood him there
> > Hasn't fought Shanks in 15-20 years since Shanks was a high tier
> > Likely has never met Kinemon
> > Ishoo is arguably weaker than Cracker and only due to his devil fruit which might be new
> ...


You would have to ask Oda for the details as to why he considers Mihawk to be the strongest swordsman in the world. He's the one who said it, I'm just the messenger.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Kai (Feb 22, 2018)

PwnGoatVSPandaman said:


> Lol no, Vista stalemated Mihawk and Jozu no sold him, Jozu would body Mihawk.


Jozu's defense no sold him. Haven't seen enough of Jozu's offense to for sure think Mihawk will get bodied.


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## PwnGoatVSPandaman (Feb 23, 2018)

Kai said:


> Jozu's defense no sold him. Haven't seen enough of Jozu's offense to for sure think Mihawk will get bodied.


Jozu's raw power no sold him, yes the diamonds + busoshoku were stopping him from being cut (if that air slash even had any cutting power and wasn't just a giant blunt attack due to the scale), however Jozu was the one who stood in place and grabbed it and pretty much no sold it. If it was simply defense he'd have been sent flying but been fine (and arguably wouldn't have stopped the attack at all and it'd have keep going towards whitebeard), however he outright stood in place and stopped it. This comes more in line with his raw strength that he showed when he threw that glacier.


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## PwnGoatVSPandaman (Feb 23, 2018)

Dunno said:


> You would have to ask Oda for the details as to why he considers Mihawk to be the strongest swordsman in the world. He's the one who said it, I'm just the messenger.


In verse Mihawk is considered the best swordsman in the world because no one has defeated him, this is because people who can beat him don't go after him and/or never met him.

If Vista would have won that fight, he would be the world's strongest swordsman.


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## PwnGoatVSPandaman (Feb 23, 2018)

DoctorLaw said:


> Your arguments for why Mihawk isn't top tier are starting to go against each other these last few pages.
> 
> Mihawk swings his sword and a side character says, "look the strongest swing in the world," and that's proof Mihawk went all out, but Mihawk being referred to as the WSS by multiple side characters is bullshit.
> 
> ...


Mihawk is top tier, he's a bit stronger than Doflamingo who is bottom of the barrel top tier.

The proof that Mihawk went all out is that he wanted to measure his strength against whitebeard himself and it was no sold by Jozu.

Doflamingo, who is marginally weaker than Mihawk, was also a big player at marineford, Mihawk and Doflamingo are pretty much low end top commanders, adding 2 of those to the admirals and others is a bit boost. Mihawk is still in the top like 20-25 pirates out there in the world. 

Vista is a top tier, Mihawk is a top tier, they are equals and are on the lower half of top tier though. Vista even pointed out that each of the two had one point in their favor.

So here are the actual feats of Mihawk:

1) Being point for point tied with Vista (not comparable to Vista simply surviving for a while)
2) His strongest attack being no sold by Jozu
3) Beating pre timeskip luffy, zoro, daz bones, buggy, and clashing equally with crocodile (which falls in line with your characters being able to not outright lose to top tiers, not vista who is mihawk's equal)

Vista is one of the top swordsman in the world, he's not a scrub, Mihawk isn't a scrub, being top yonkou commander level is a big deal, even being pre nerf Chinjao leveled (old age) is a pretty decent deal.

Jozu > Thatch > Vista = Mihawk > or = Doflamingo

Not saying he's weak, he's a top tier, j ust a lower one. All feats point to this power scale (with the exception of maybe thatch but I'm pretty confident on that)


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## PwnGoatVSPandaman (Feb 23, 2018)

TheWiggian said:


> Snack was recruited by Urouge man, what are you talking about?


Shit man, not my fault I'm a better writer than Oda.

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## Dries Mertens (Feb 23, 2018)

Mihawk despite the disadvantage


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## Quipchaque (Feb 23, 2018)

@PwnGoatVSPandaman

You say Mihawk never beat someone strong but you do realize Mihawk had to beat the former WSS to earn the title... right? So that is clearly wrong. Oh let me guess you will now go on and downplay that WSS as well, why even bother.

Also if he never beat someone impressive (according to you) then how come everyone acknowledges Mihawk as undipsuted Number 1 and respects him? You clearly have no idea what you are talking about and would be a terrible writer. lol


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## Dunno (Feb 23, 2018)

PwnGoatVSPandaman said:


> In verse Mihawk is considered the best swordsman in the world because no one has defeated him, this is because people who can beat him don't go after him and/or never met him.
> 
> If Vista would have won that fight, he would be the world's strongest swordsman.


In-verse he's considered the strongest swordsman in the world because everyone thinks he's the strongest swordsman in the world. By Oda he's considered the strongest swordsman in the world because he is so, by definition. If Vista would have won that fight, Mihawk wouldn't have been the strongest swordsman in the world to start with. It's not confirmed that Mihawk is the best/most skilled swordsman in the world though, since neither Oda nor any OP character has said that he is, but I agree that it's likely that he's the best/most skilled in addition to the strongest.


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## PwnGoatVSPandaman (Feb 23, 2018)

DiscoZoro20 said:


> @PwnGoatVSPandaman
> 
> You say Mihawk never beat someone strong but you do realize Mihawk had to beat the former WSS to earn the title... right? So that is clearly wrong. Oh let me guess you will now go on and downplay that WSS as well, why even bother.
> 
> Also if he never beat someone impressive (according to you) then how come everyone acknowledges Mihawk as undipsuted Number 1 and respects him? You clearly have no idea what you are talking about and would be a terrible writer. lol


An assortment of things can go into that: 
1) Characters could have overall surpassed said character
2) Said character was Mihawk's master
3) Said character let Mihawk win for whatever reason
4) Said character was in a bad position
5) The title didn't exist until Mihawk
6) Said person died 

Vista stalemated Mihawk and Shanks is vastly stronger than that, who's to say that Vista or Shanks couldn't have defeated the old wss if such a person existed?

If you were to ask me, I'd probably argue that Oden was the world's strongest swordsman, but he died due to turning himself in to be executed by the shogun.

But yeah, if Mihawk has never met Vista (who is seen as one of the best swordsman in the world), then what does his title actually mean? Vista didn't respect Mihawk anymore than Mihawk respected him, nor did Vista really acknowledge Mihawk as the undisputed number 1 in any way. I doubt shanks does either.

No it wouldn't be terrible writing, it'd actually be better writing.


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## PwnGoatVSPandaman (Feb 23, 2018)

Dunno said:


> In-verse he's considered the strongest swordsman in the world because everyone thinks he's the strongest swordsman in the world. By Oda he's considered the strongest swordsman in the world because he is so, by definition. If Vista would have won that fight, Mihawk wouldn't have been the strongest swordsman in the world to start with. It's not confirmed that Mihawk is the best/most skilled swordsman in the world though, since neither Oda nor any OP character has said that he is, but I agree that it's likely that he's the best/most skilled in addition to the strongest.


Like who? Marine captains? 2 cross dressing fodder? Zoro?

Vista didn't pay Mihawk any more respect than Mihawk payed him, at the very worst it goes something like this:

Shanks > Mihawk and other top swordsman who are on his level (might just be vista)

I'm honestly unsure if Mihawk could even beat non full moon inu honestly.

Vista and Mihawk had never met until marineford so Vista wouldn't have been capable of beating Mihawk even if he is on his level or even if he was stronger.
Shanks hasn't fought Mihawk in 15-20 years (well before he was a top tier) so Shanks wouldn't have been capable of beating Mihawk even if he is much stronger than Mihawk.

Overall I think there are a few swordsman who are Mihawk leveled, Shanks who is above them but Mihawk won't fight him (which would be required for shanks to take the title), or something like that.

In the end did Vista or Inu seem even partially interested in the title, let alone Shanks? Nope.

Heck maybe Mihawk having the title is something the other swordsman allow because it helps him hold onto the shichibukai rank (he's still the strongest but he gets extra umf for having the title), and they don't want to ruin his retirement or something. I mean in the end a top yonkou commander isn't interested in the title, if anything it'd be frustrating to have people challenge you constantly, do you think vista would want to deal with that when he's been going through all the blackbeard and territory stuff? Does Inu want people constantly coming to zunisha/zou (city) to pester him for fights?

Not to mention if Ishoo was a topish swordsman who was given the devil fruit when he became admiral, that'd be further proof of a swordsman surpassing him.


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## Kai (Feb 23, 2018)

Also if people still think Mihawk's WSS title applies to guys like Shanks, Rayleigh, and Fujitora then Vista should be accepted as not only one of the strongest swordsmen but one of the strongest characters period.

Vista's relation to "WSS title" using those fans' logic means he's one of the strongest OP characters in existence. 

But that's obviously not the case. In fact there's no inclination Vista, who is one of the top swordsmen in the world, is even close to Fujitora or Rayleigh's level, two examples "WSS fanatics" refer to as swordsmen as an identity.


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## Dunno (Feb 23, 2018)

PwnGoatVSPandaman said:


> Like who? Marine captains? 2 cross dressing fodder? Zoro?
> 
> Vista didn't pay Mihawk any more respect than Mihawk payed him, at the very worst it goes something like this:
> 
> ...


I have understood that you don't consider the manga a credible source when discussing One Piece, so I'm not sure our discussion would be very productive. Therefore I will just explain what Oda has written once more: Oda has written in the manga that Mihawk is the world's strongest swordsman.


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## Quipchaque (Feb 23, 2018)

PwnGoatVSPandaman said:


> An assortment of things can go into that:
> 1) Characters could have overall surpassed said character
> 2) Said character was Mihawk's master
> 3) Said character let Mihawk win for whatever reason
> ...



Way too complicated. 

Have you ever asked yourself why Mihawk´s title is still considered valid even so anyone in the op world could ask the same questions as you do?


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## PwnGoatVSPandaman (Feb 23, 2018)

DiscoZoro20 said:


> Way too complicated.
> 
> Have you ever asked yourself why Mihawk´s title is still considered valid even so anyone in the op world could ask the same questions as you do?


Because no one has beat him, and if they did he might have beat them the next time, or never even met him.
One has to beat Mihawk to take the title, there isn't some stat grading system where if someone is training and get stronger than him, the title his transferred to him like a video game, they'd have to beat him.

Shanks doesn't fight him
Vista has never met him
Who is actually trying to fight Mihawk besides Zoro and fodder?

Vista doesn't care about the title
Neither does Shanks
I doubt Inu cares about it
I doubt Kin'emon cares about it
No one cares besides people who can't beat Mihawk.


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## PwnGoatVSPandaman (Feb 23, 2018)

Dunno said:


> I have understood that you don't consider the manga a credible source when discussing One Piece, so I'm not sure our discussion would be very productive. Therefore I will just explain what Oda has written once more: Oda has written in the manga that Mihawk is the world's strongest swordsman.


Aww, did the little baby get upset that he lost the debate about the kid's comic? Fucking pathetic.

Prove me wrong with actual evidence, if you can't you fucking lose mate.


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## Dunno (Feb 23, 2018)

PwnGoatVSPandaman said:


> Aww, did the little baby get upset that he lost the debate about the kid's comic? Fucking pathetic.
> 
> Prove me wrong with actual evidence, if you can't you fucking lose mate.


Again, you prove that you don't consider Oda's own words actual evidence (and that you're a bit of a prick). There is nothing more to say.


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## PwnGoatVSPandaman (Feb 23, 2018)

Dunno said:


> Again, you prove that you don't consider Oda's own words actual evidence (and that you're a bit of a prick). There is nothing more to say.


Everything is Oda's worse in the manga, including Vista standstilling Mihawk.

Oda drew Vista equalizing Mihawk and Vista saying they were equal on point scoring
Oda drew Mihawk's strongest attack get no sold by Jozu and Mihawk frowning when he realized how insignificant he was on the grander power-scale.


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## Dunno (Feb 23, 2018)

PwnGoatVSPandaman said:


> Everything is Oda's worse in the manga, including Vista standstilling Mihawk.
> 
> Oda drew Vista equalizing Mihawk and Vista saying they were equal on point scoring
> Oda drew Mihawk's strongest attack get no sold by Jozu.


The first one is true. It's not inconsistent with the fact that Mihawk is the strongest swordsman in the world though. The second one is not. Oda drew one of Mihawk's ranged slashes get stopped by Jozu. A ranged slash isn't a character's strongest slash.


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## PwnGoatVSPandaman (Feb 23, 2018)

Dunno said:


> The first one is true. It's not inconsistent with the fact that Mihawk is the strongest swordsman in the world though. The second one is not. Oda drew one of Mihawk's ranged slashes get stopped by Jozu. A ranged slash isn't a character's strongest slash.


It is inconsistent actually, Shanks is vastly stronger than Vista.

The second one is true as well, it was the attack he used to measure himself against whitebeard and jozu no sold it. Air slashes are just diversity for swordsman.


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## Dunno (Feb 23, 2018)

PwnGoatVSPandaman said:


> It is inconsistent actually, Shanks is vastly stronger than Vista.
> 
> The second one is true as well, it was the attack he used to measure himself against whitebeard and jozu no sold it. Air slashes are just diversity for swordsman.


Shanks is vastly stronger than Vista. Big Mom is vastly stronger than Chopper and Jinbei. Fujitora is vastly stronger than Zoro. Mihawk is vastly stronger than Vista. In One Piece, the differences are smaller than in say for example Dragon Ball. Thus, much weaker characters can put up a fight against stronger ones, especially when the stronger ones aren't even serious. 

Do you actually believe that Mihawk (unlike every other swordsman we've seen) has no melee range slash which is stronger than his ranged ones?


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## PwnGoatVSPandaman (Feb 23, 2018)

Dunno said:


> Shanks is vastly stronger than Vista. Big Mom is vastly stronger than Chopper and Jinbei. Fujitora is vastly stronger than Zoro. Mihawk is vastly stronger than Vista. In One Piece, the differences are smaller than in say for example Dragon Ball. Thus, much weaker characters can put up a fight against stronger ones, especially when the stronger ones aren't even serious.
> 
> Do you actually believe that Mihawk (unlike every other swordsman we've seen) has no melee range slash which is stronger than his ranged ones?


Your argument doesn't make sense because 1 simple fact:

Chopper turned to a puff ball to take a single non serious attack from big mom, Vista and Mihawk had an extended fight in which Vista and Mihawk had both gotten a point from each other (meaning both had gotten the better of the other)
Neither were hurt
Both talked each other up equally
Neither had met before
etc

Zoro did nothing to Fujitora, he came at him when Fujitora didn't know Zoro was there, that's no different than zoro losing to the yeti cool brothers. 

There is nothing to suggest Mihawk is stronger than Vista, there is evidence to suggest he's equal to Vista and weaker to Jozu though.

Mihawk's cqc will be strong, but not stronger. Like any swordsman? You mean Zoro? Diamante's strongest sword technique was an air cutter, Inu never showed any air cutting techniques, Kinemon hasn't shown any air cutting techniques, Vista didn't demonstrate any air cuts, etc. 

Jozu no sold Mihawk's best, we get that you like Mihawk, but that's irrelevant in the face of acts.


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## Quipchaque (Feb 23, 2018)

PwnGoatVSPandaman said:


> Because no one has beat him, and if they did he might have beat them the next time, or never even met him.
> One has to beat Mihawk to take the title, there isn't some stat grading system where if someone is training and get stronger than him, the title his transferred to him like a video game, they'd have to beat him.
> 
> Shanks doesn't fight him
> ...



Yeah exactly. So you admit Mihawk is unbeaten and that he might beat the one who defeats him next time yet you say Mihawk has to be weaker than "insert person here". No harsh feelings bro but that´s a really silly thing to say.

I wanna see evidence of you how Shanks and Vista even put a scratch on Mihawk let alone beat him in a 1vs1 otherwise all your arguments are nothing but desperate loop hole search.


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## PwnGoatVSPandaman (Feb 23, 2018)

DiscoZoro20 said:


> Yeah exactly. So you admit Mihawk is unbeaten and that he might beat the one who defeats him next time yet you say Mihawk has to be weaker than "insert person here". No harsh feelings bro but that´s a really silly thing to say.
> 
> I wanna see evidence of you how Shanks and Vista even put a scratch on Mihawk let alone beat him in a 1vs1 otherwise all your arguments are nothing but desperate loop hole search.


The most realistic argument was that oden was the strongest swordsman and he died because he turned himself in out of honor to the shogun who made him commit seppuku.

Mihawk is undefeated since he's gotten the title in the same way that Luffy's never beaten me in a fight, because I've never fought Luffy and he's not a real person. If he was and could fight like that, he'd wreck me.

Nor is Jozu a swordsman.

1) Shanks is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jozu and Jozu no sold Mihawk
2) Vista got a point on Mihawk with only a point against him, meaning they both had the advantage over each other at one point of the off panel swordsmanship, meaning Vista can damage him.
3) Shanks is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Vista

World's strongest swordsman doesn't matter worth a damn when the strongest swordsman is a yonkou who won't fight you and top commanders have never met you, meanwhile the ultimate samurai long ago killed himself.


I have actual feats and fights to prove my point.
You have "well the title"
I've disproved why the title is relevant, so all that's left is Vista equalizing him and Jozu shitting on his strongest attack and Mihawk looking like he shat himself after said attack was no sold.



Mihawk on bottom panel: Surprise that his attack meant for whitebeard was stopped
Whitebeard: "lol he couldn't even get thorugh Jozu"
Mihawk on left: "My strongest attack did shit"

That page was the epitome of Mihawk thinking he stood a chance against Whitebeard because no yonkou commander has ever had any interest in him and Shanks hadn't fought him in years, to sheer surprise of his attack getting no sold, to complete humbling and realizing he's not all that. Mihawk when he swung that attack thought that he and whitebeard were on the same level if not Mihawk might have the edge, after the attack he realized he's much smaller than he is, then he went after and got equalized by Vista.

Marineford humbled him, he thought he was the toughest shit on the block till he got trashed on time and time again.


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## Dunno (Feb 23, 2018)

PwnGoatVSPandaman said:


> Your argument doesn't make sense because 1 simple fact:
> 
> Chopper turned to a puff ball to take a single non serious attack from big mom, Vista and Mihawk had an extended fight in which Vista and Mihawk had both gotten a point from each other (meaning both had gotten the better of the other)
> Neither were hurt
> ...


They had an fight during which Mihawk was following Luffy and having an inner monologue about him and his power. Mihawk wasn't serious during the fight, that much is obvious. This whole discussion is of course irrelevant, since it has been straight up stated to be true by the author himself that Mihawk is superior to Vista. You can try to misinterpret a couple of panels during the war where Buggy was able to escape successfully from Akainu if you want to, but Oda has said that Mihawk is stronger than Vista, so Mihawk is stronger than Vista. Unless off course you want to argue that Vista isn't a swordsman?

Brook and Big Mom had an unequal exchange, during which Brook made Big Mom look like a fool while she couldn't do anything to him. Big Mom and Jinbei had an equal exchange, where they both hit each other with one attack each, and they both launched each other off the boat. 

Are you saying that Zoro's strongest attacks are ranged attacks?


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## PwnGoatVSPandaman (Feb 23, 2018)

Dunno said:


> They had an fight during which Mihawk was following Luffy and having an inner monologue about him and his power. Mihawk wasn't serious during the fight, that much is obvious. This whole discussion is of course irrelevant, since it has been straight up stated to be true by the author himself that Mihawk is superior to Vista. You can try to misinterpret a couple of panels during the war where Buggy was able to escape successfully from Akainu if you want to, but Oda has said that Mihawk is stronger than Vista, so Mihawk is stronger than Vista. Unless off course you want to argue that Vista isn't a swordsman?
> 
> Brook and Big Mom had an unequal exchange, during which Brook made Big Mom look like a fool while she couldn't do anything to him. Big Mom and Jinbei had an equal exchange, where they both hit each other with one attack each, and they both launched each other off the boat.
> 
> Are you saying that Zoro's strongest attacks are ranged attacks?


You mean for like 2 seconds before they continued for a multi minute fight? Mihawk even implied Vista was distracted and should be elsewhere during their battle.

Mihawk was literally focused on Vista in a clash where both weren't pushing at each other and both were making small talk, Mihawk made one glare over at Luffy, then the fight continued. 

But look at how serious Vista was, lol.


It has not been straight up stated to be true that Mihawk is stronger than Vista, at no point did he say that. Mihawk's title wouldn't go way unless someone beats him, Mihawk and Vista had never met, so the title is 100% irrelevant. 

Lol at trying to compare big mom to mihawk vs vista, that's desperate and stupid.


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## Quipchaque (Feb 24, 2018)

PwnGoatVSPandaman said:


> The most realistic argument was that oden was the strongest swordsman and he died because he turned himself in out of honor to the shogun who made him commit seppuku.
> 
> Mihawk is undefeated since he's gotten the title in the same way that Luffy's never beaten me in a fight, because I've never fought Luffy and he's not a real person. If he was and could fight like that, he'd wreck me.
> 
> ...



The struggle is real.


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## Dunno (Feb 24, 2018)

PwnGoatVSPandaman said:


> You mean for like 2 seconds before they continued for a multi minute fight? Mihawk even implied Vista was distracted and should be elsewhere during their battle.
> 
> Mihawk was literally focused on Vista in a clash where both weren't pushing at each other and both were making small talk, Mihawk made one glare over at Luffy, then the fight continued.
> 
> ...


Vista's casualness proves my point. Neither character was serious, they were merely sparring for fun. 

And you seem to have either misread the manga, or you are lying. Because Oda has never written that Mihawk has the title of world's strongest swordsman. Oda has written that Mihawk is the world's strongest swordsman. There's a huge difference, which shouldn't be that hard to comprehend.


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## Quipchaque (Feb 24, 2018)

Dunno said:


> Vista's casualness proves my point. Neither character was serious, they were merely sparring for fun.
> 
> And you seem to have either misread the manga, or you are lying. Because Oda has never written that Mihawk has the title of world's strongest swordsman. Oda has written that Mihawk is the world's strongest swordsman. There's a huge difference, which shouldn't be that hard to comprehend.



Dunno what are you talking about. Didn´t you know that clashing swords for 5 mins with smiles on your face makes you an equal to Mihawk? Learn your shit mate.


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## shisuiuchiha5 (Feb 24, 2018)

PwnGoatVSPandaman said:


> The most realistic argument was that oden was the strongest swordsman and he died because he turned himself in out of honor to the shogun who made him commit seppuku.
> 
> Mihawk is undefeated since he's gotten the title in the same way that Luffy's never beaten me in a fight, because I've never fought Luffy and he's not a real person. If he was and could fight like that, he'd wreck me.
> 
> ...



it was never stated that mihawk has the title of world's strongest swordsman,oda has actually crowned him as the WOrld's strongest swordsman

mihawk literally stated to shanks that he had no intention of fighting a 1 armed man like shanks.

Mihawk was just playing around with Vista,going easy on him so he could have a good fight from this war.

You really think that was mihawk's Strongest attack?

that attack did not even exhaust mihawk ,it  didnt even tax his body

Mihawk used a casual ONE ARMED ,unnamed slash.obviously someone as tanky as jozu was going to block it.if mihawk used both of his arms and a named slash,jozu would have had a hard time blocking it.

Mihawk could use an even larger slash which chopped off a mountain sized glacier


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## Kai (Feb 24, 2018)

shisuiuchiha5 said:


> Mihawk was just playing around with Vista,going easy on him so he could have a good fight from this war.


You mean both of them were playing around. We don't know if Mihawk felt that way or not; Vista was the one smiling and having a good time though. If you're going for "playing around" and "having a good fight" that applies more to Vista who was obviously having fun or at the very least applies to both Mihawk and Vista respectively.


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## shisuiuchiha5 (Feb 24, 2018)

PwnGoatVSPandaman said:


> You mean for like 2 seconds before they continued for a multi minute fight? Mihawk even implied Vista was distracted and should be elsewhere during their battle.
> 
> Mihawk was literally focused on Vista in a clash where both weren't pushing at each other and both were making small talk, Mihawk made one glare over at Luffy, then the fight continued.
> 
> ...



Mihawk was non-chalante during the whole war,just doing stuff to pass his time.He was just testing if Luffy could survive this war,not seriously trying to kill Luffy.If he dies,whatever,if he doesn't,cool.That's the mindset of Mihawk when he went for Luffy. As for Vista,Mihawk didn't even pay attention to him before he clashed with him.But then,he was probably thinking-Hm,I heard this guy is pretty good.Let's see what he can do."So he had a sparing match with him,but Mihawk was not


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## Kai (Feb 24, 2018)

Agreed I think it's obvious Mihawk was just testing Luffy and he wasn't serious against Vista (neither was Vista) and the arguments against them is simply bad downplay attempts. Obviously if push came to shove Mihawk should dominate Vista as the WSS; However when people from the other side mask their bad wank attempt and say Mihawk wasn't serious at all attacking Whitebeard that is one of the stupidest things I've ever heard about OP.

They say he wasn't trying in testing Luffy yet turn around and say he wasn't trying in testing the difference between him and WB. Explaining "mindset" has been so inconsistent with many Mihawk fans/advocates.


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## Quipchaque (Feb 24, 2018)

Kai said:


> Agreed I think it's obvious Mihawk was just testing Luffy and he wasn't serious against Vista (neither was Vista) and the arguments against them is simply bad downplay attempts. Obviously if push came to shove Mihawk should dominate Vista as the WSS; However when people from the other side mask their bad wank attempt and say Mihawk wasn't serious at all attacking Whitebeard that is one of the stupidest things I've ever heard about OP.
> 
> They say he wasn't trying in testing Luffy yet turn around and say he wasn't trying in testing the difference between him and WB. Explaining "mindset" has been so inconsistent with many Mihawk fans/advocates.



No I don´t think that is inconsistent at all. You underestimate the meaing of the epithet "Hawk-eye" he earned. Mihawk is very observant he saw through Zoro´s true intentions immediately when Zoro begged him to teach him and also realized immediately that Zoro carried a burden with him when they fought each other at Baratie. He also expects people to understand differences in strength with only small observation as he explained to Zoro, further highlighting his observation ability.

I don´t think a guy like him needs "one of his strongest attacks" to "see the difference in strength". Also do you really believe an attack that is comparable to current Zoro´s second strongest attack will be anywhere close to Mihawk´s limit?


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## Kai (Feb 24, 2018)

That sounds like a forced interpretation of what we understand in canon so far imo. First off no I don't think it's his strongest attack nor did I say it was his second strongest but that was by no means a casual slash, when considering the arguments some like yourself use with measuring WB are identical to the same arguments used in testing Luffy for christs sake. It's just bad and unnecessary stretching of canon to actually believe Mihawk didn't seriously attack the strongest man in the world because of "Hawkeye"   It's one of the dumbest things anyone as heard.

In fact it actually introduces WB pirates in the form of Jozu perfectly, as he blocked an attack that was meant for WB. It makes more sense when considering the perspective it was an attack meant for WB rather than stretching canon and ambiguously explaining Mihawk's comment and attack strength by on panel feats DC.


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## PwnGoatVSPandaman (Feb 24, 2018)

shisuiuchiha5 said:


> Mihawk was non-chalante during the whole war,just doing stuff to pass his time.He was just testing if Luffy could survive this war,not seriously trying to kill Luffy.If he dies,whatever,if he doesn't,cool.That's the mindset of Mihawk when he went for Luffy. As for Vista,Mihawk didn't even pay attention to him before he clashed with him.But then,he was probably thinking-Hm,I heard this guy is pretty good.Let's see what he can do."So he had a sparing match with him,but Mihawk was not


Mihawk was less non-chalante than doflamingo was and I even admit doflamingo is a tad weaker than mihawk.

Also no, he even admitted he was trying to kill Luffy, however Luffy had a sudden future sight kenbunshoku feat unconsciously.

Mihawk was after Luffy and Marco was just like "vista" and vista is like "aye aye boss" and then clashed with mihawk with a casual smile on his face, he talked vista up and vista talked him up, then mihawk for one panel glanced over at luffy before mihawk vs vista started fighting. Vista is a top swordsman, he's not going to hit Mihawk (who he has no hate for) when he's turned away, as soon as mihawk was done glancing, both left the casual sword lock and started fighting, off panel both had scored a point on the other (and mihawk was focused on vista)

Also I love how Mihawk's strongest attack gets no sold by Jozu and Vista stalemates Mihawk but "oh if they were both serious mihawk would win"

Your argument falls apart when you realize that both had scored a point on each other, even if both were casual they wouldn't allow themselves to lose against the other, a point implies that there was damage or that someone gained an edge over the other for a moment, meaning both bested the other in one instant of the fight. Even when mihawk pulled out a knife against zoro, he never lost an advantage, and even if he was casual enough to allow it, he'd get serious for the moment he's about to lose an advantage to stop said advantage. Mihawk vs Vista started casually but then both started to go more serious at each other.


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## PwnGoatVSPandaman (Feb 24, 2018)

shisuiuchiha5 said:


> it was never stated that mihawk has the title of world's strongest swordsman,oda has actually crowned him as the WOrld's strongest swordsman
> 
> mihawk literally stated to shanks that he had no intention of fighting a 1 armed man like shanks.
> 
> ...


Yes it was stated that he has the title of world's strongest swordsman, just like how it was stated that whitebeard was the world's strongest man (by sengoku), which ended up being false due to his health issues.

Mihawk doesn't want to fight Shanks out of friendship, they are friends and he likes Shanks, he also said that when Shanks was a mid or high tier. Shanks would trounce Mihawk easily.

Vista was casual at first too, anyway Vista scored a point on Mihawk, meaning he had the edge. But hey "oh he was not serious", that's just a bullshit excuse because mihawk has no strong feats and you want to wank him off. 

Jozu didn't tank the slash, he grabbed it and used his physical strength to reject it casually. Jozu wasn't pushed back or sent flying (while still being fine) which would be the case if he tanked it, he overpowered mihawk's slash. 

Mihawk thought he was hot shit like all your fanboys think he is, but he was humbled and realized he was only vista leveled and not yonkou/whitebeard leveled.


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## Dunno (Feb 24, 2018)

Kai said:


> That sounds like a forced interpretation of what we understand in canon so far imo. First off no I don't think it's his strongest attack nor did I say it was his second strongest but that was by no means a casual slash, when considering the arguments some like yourself use with measuring WB are identical to the same arguments used in testing Luffy for christs sake. It's just bad and unnecessary stretching of canon to actually believe Mihawk didn't seriously attack the strongest man in the world because of "Hawkeye"   It's one of the dumbest things anyone as heard.
> 
> In fact it actually introduces WB pirates in the form of Jozu perfectly, as he blocked an attack that was meant for WB. It makes more sense when considering the perspective it was an attack meant for WB rather than stretching canon and ambiguously explaining Mihawk's comment and attack strength by on panel feats DC.


Do you understand how canon works? Character statements are not canon, because the character stating them could very well be wrong. What is shown on panel and what the author states is canon.


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## PwnGoatVSPandaman (Feb 24, 2018)

Dunno said:


> Vista's casualness proves my point. Neither character was serious, they were merely sparring for fun.
> 
> And you seem to have either misread the manga, or you are lying. Because Oda has never written that Mihawk has the title of world's strongest swordsman. Oda has written that Mihawk is the world's strongest swordsman. There's a huge difference, which shouldn't be that hard to comprehend.


If Vista was casual, how does that prove that if both were serious, Mihawk would win? If anything it just means that both are equal when casual and both are equal when not casual.
Both scored a point on each other, meaning both had the edge over the other at one point or another.


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## Dunno (Feb 24, 2018)

PwnGoatVSPandaman said:


> If Vista was casual, how does that prove that if both were serious, Mihawk would win? If anything it just means that both are equal when casual and both are equal when not casual.
> Both scored a point on each other, meaning both had the edge over the other at one point or another.


It means that both of them were sparring and having fun. Mihawk was humouring Vista by fighting him a bit, and then they both went on their way. Either way, Oda has said that Mihawk is the strongest swordsman in the world, so you either argue that Vista isn't a swordsman or argue against Oda. It's up to you.


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## PwnGoatVSPandaman (Feb 24, 2018)

Dunno said:


> It means that both of them were sparring and having fun. Mihawk was humouring Vista by fighting him a bit, and then they both went on their way. Either way, Oda has said that Mihawk is the strongest swordsman in the world, so you either argue that Vista isn't a swordsman or argue against Oda. It's up to you.


Humoring him? Nice fan fiction, literally nothing suggested that, that's pure head canon.

Mihawk is considered the strongest swordsman in the world like whitebeard was considered the strongest man in the world, both are false. 

Oda never said he's the strongest, mihawk simply has the title. If you can find an interview where Oda says he's the strongest swordsman, then sure, but that doesn't exist.

I'm going based on actual feats, you're going off of "lel the title"

I've torn apart the title argument 1000x already, it's a bad argument.


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## PwnGoatVSPandaman (Feb 24, 2018)

Dunno said:


> Do you understand how canon works? Character statements are not canon, because the character stating them could very well be wrong. What is shown on panel and what the author states is canon.


Titles aren't author statements, titles are in verse titles. 

Oda interviews are author statements. 

What has been shown on panel is that mihawk has the title, that he's equal with vista, and that jozu no sold him (and shanks is vastly stronger than jozu)


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## Dunno (Feb 24, 2018)

PwnGoatVSPandaman said:


> Humoring him? Nice fan fiction, literally nothing suggested that, that's pure head canon.
> 
> Mihawk is considered the strongest swordsman in the world like whitebeard was considered the strongest man in the world, both are false.
> 
> ...





PwnGoatVSPandaman said:


> Titles aren't author statements, titles are in verse titles.
> 
> Oda interviews are author statements.
> 
> What has been shown on panel is that mihawk has the title, that he's equal with vista, and that jozu no sold him (and shanks is vastly stronger than jozu)



Not only has Oda written in the manga that Mihawk is the strongest swordsman in the world, but he has also apparently written so in the green databook, although I haven't seen this scan myself. In the manga, he didn't say anything about any title, but only about Mihawk himself, just like he did with Whitebeard. You go by extremely shady interpretations of feats from a casual Mihawk. I go by Oda himself writes and says.

Sengoku has confirmed that Mihawk *also *has the in-universe title of WSS, but that's secondary to his actual status as confirmed by Oda.


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## PwnGoatVSPandaman (Feb 24, 2018)

Dunno said:


> Not only has Oda written in the manga that Mihawk is the strongest swordsman in the world, but he has also apparently written so in the green databook, although I haven't seen this scan myself. In the manga, he didn't say anything about any title, but only about Mihawk himself, just like he did with Whitebeard. You go by extremely shady interpretations of feats from a casual Mihawk. I go by Oda himself writes and says.
> 
> Sengoku has confirmed that Mihawk *also *has the in-universe title of WSS, but that's secondary to his actual status as confirmed by Oda.


He wrote that that is the title Mihawk has, Oda has also written/drawn Vista being equal with Mihawk and Jozu easily stopping a serious attack of Mihawk that was meant for WHitebeard.

Mihawk wasn't casual, you just want to wank mihawk so you pretend he was.

The titles popping up are titles, whitebeard wasn't the strongest man in the world at marineford, nor is Mihawk actually the strongest swordsman in the world. You're making things up to justify Mihawk's strength even though every feat he's done has proven otherwise.

Shanks would outright low diff Mihawk.


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## xmysticgohanx (Feb 24, 2018)

Kai said:


> Agreed I think it's obvious Mihawk was just testing Luffy and he wasn't serious against Vista (neither was Vista) and the arguments against them is simply bad downplay attempts. Obviously if push came to shove Mihawk should dominate Vista as the WSS; However when people from the other side mask their bad wank attempt and say Mihawk wasn't serious at all attacking Whitebeard that is one of the stupidest things I've ever heard about OP.
> 
> They say he wasn't trying in testing Luffy yet turn around and say he wasn't trying in testing the difference between him and WB. Explaining "mindset" has been so inconsistent with many Mihawk fans/advocates.


 What do you think about my explanation of why Mihawk did not hurt Jozu? Just search my posts in this thread


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## Dunno (Feb 24, 2018)

PwnGoatVSPandaman said:


> *He wrote that that is the title Mihawk has*, Oda has also written/drawn Vista being equal with Mihawk and Jozu easily stopping a serious attack of Mihawk that was meant for WHitebeard.
> 
> Mihawk wasn't casual, you just want to wank mihawk so you pretend he was.
> 
> ...


What translation is that? Could you link it?


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## shisuiuchiha5 (Feb 25, 2018)

PwnGoatVSPandaman said:


> Yes it was stated that he has the title of world's strongest swordsman, just like how it was stated that whitebeard was the world's strongest man (by sengoku), which ended up being false due to his health issues.
> 
> Mihawk doesn't want to fight Shanks out of friendship, they are friends and he likes Shanks, he also said that when Shanks was a mid or high tier. Shanks would trounce Mihawk easily.
> 
> ...




It was stated in the data book that mihawk is the strongest swordsman.

Mihawk was looking at Luffy while fighting against Vista.

He was literally daydreaming during thier "fight"

It wasn't mihawk's Strongest attack,it was a casual one armed unnamed slash.

It was at the best only  a warning shot.
Maybe like 20% of his strength.

Since jozu is pretty much a monster physically and has diamond (which is the hardest substances) ,it would be pretty easy for jozu to stop that slash.

Also mihawk attacked Luffy with a much larger slash which chopped off a large mountain sized ice.


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## shisuiuchiha5 (Feb 25, 2018)

PwnGoatVSPandaman said:


> Mihawk wasn't stronger than Shanks 20 years ago, they were rivals, and since then Shanks has gotten vastly stronger and they haven't fought since then. Stop trying to justify this, you have to defeat the strongest swordsman to become the strongest swordsman, it's not a mmo where a title comes up with whoever is the strongest.
> 
> 1) Shanks hasn't fought him since Shanks was a mid tier
> 2) Vista had never met Mihawk and Vista along with Mihawk weren't anywhere near each other during the timeskip
> ...



mid-tier? Whitebeard clearly states their battles echoed across the grandline. Also is shanks can get strong why can't mihawk?

How can you say Vista level at best? He was thinking about Luffy all that time and never really came there to defeat people. As he himself states the only reason he came there is because Whitebeard was there , and then he found interest in Luffy. I don't see Vista casually cutting mountains..


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## PwnGoatVSPandaman (Feb 25, 2018)

shisuiuchiha5 said:


> It was stated in the data book that mihawk is the strongest swordsman.
> 
> Mihawk was looking at Luffy while fighting against Vista.
> 
> ...


Or did it say he was the world's strongest swordsman, which is his title? Probably

Mihawk literally glanced over for 2 seconds tops before facing vista to fight, stop using anime or head canon.



Mihawk and Vista were equally as serious and Mihawk did face Vista when they fought, he just looked over when the two were casually in a sword clash (like swords against each other)

No it fucking wasn't casual, sorry but no amount of mihawk fanboyism is going to prove it was casual, it was a serious slash.

IIt wasn't a warning shot, it was to measure his own strength against whitebeard, then he physically frowned after in distaste cuz he thought it'd do more, it was 80% at the least.

The diamonds didn't stop the slash, his physical strength did. 

Not it wasn't a much larger slash that Mihawk used on Luffy actually. Mountain busting is a fucking high high tier feat anyway.


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## PwnGoatVSPandaman (Feb 25, 2018)

shisuiuchiha5 said:


> mid-tier? Whitebeard clearly states their battles echoed across the grandline. Also is shanks can get strong why can't mihawk?
> 
> How can you say Vista level at best? He was thinking about Luffy all that time and never really came there to defeat people. As he himself states the only reason he came there is because Whitebeard was there , and then he found interest in Luffy. I don't see Vista casually cutting mountains..


Shanks wasn't a top tier back then, objectively. He was a mid tier or high tier, why would it be a important fight? A number of reasons.
Maybe Mihawk was a deckhand or whatever for a famous pirate and he fought shanks while the actual core members fought each other.

He wasn't thinking about Luffy all that time, he fucking turned his glance over for 2 seconds while vista wasn't attacking him cuz they were in a clash, he wasn't just watching him while vista came at him.

Zoro can cut mountains but you don't think Vista can? Sorry but Vista is Mihawk leveled.


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## Quipchaque (Feb 25, 2018)

Kai said:


> That sounds like a forced interpretation of what we understand in canon so far imo. First off no I don't think it's his strongest attack nor did I say it was his second strongest but that was by no means a casual slash, when considering the arguments some like yourself use with measuring WB are identical to the same arguments used in testing Luffy for christs sake.
> 
> In fact it actually introduces WB pirates in the form of Jozu perfectly, as he blocked an attack that was meant for WB. It makes more sense when considering the perspective it was an attack meant for WB rather than stretching canon and ambiguously explaining Mihawk's comment and attack strength by on panel feats DC.



Ok neither do I think it was close to Mihawk´s strongest nor do I consider his attack casual. So we pretty much agree on that.



> It's just bad and unnecessary stretching of canon to actually believe Mihawk didn't seriously attack the strongest man in the world because of "Hawkeye"   It's one of the dumbest things anyone as heard.



Now, now... don´t twist my words like that I didn´t say it is because he has "hawk eyes" lol I said you are underestimating the observation ability of a guy who earned that epithet. There is a reason he is always portrayed as this analytical guy that understands everything. He´s pretty much the Itachi of One Piece, trying to be good at everything, smart, observant and also the guy that makes the fandom rage so much because he is just that perfect.
But yeah as I said I do not consider his attack casual so you can rest assured.


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## shisuiuchiha5 (Mar 14, 2018)

PwnGoatVSPandaman said:


> Or did it say he was the world's strongest swordsman, which is his title? Probably
> 
> Mihawk literally glanced over for 2 seconds tops before facing vista to fight, stop using anime or head canon.
> 
> ...



it was stated in the databook that mihawk is the No 1 swordsman in the world.

also mihawk did state that he wanted to measure the distance between himself and whiteebard which is true.but really that wasnt his strongest attack.

it is not neccessarily true that you always have to use your strongest attack to measure the distance in strength between yourself and your opponent right?

you are taking mihawk's statement too seriously

it was a casual one armed slash and it was an unnamed slash.

obviously someone as tanky and physically monstrous as jozu was going to stop it easily.

also if mihawk did even use his strongest slash then it would have taxed his body or it would have exhausted his body a lot.

also mihawk used a much larger and powerful slash against luffy which cut a mountain sized glacier,i really doubt if jozu could have stop that slash


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## Kai (Mar 14, 2018)

Funny how attacks stopped or countered by WB directly are seen as legit, but if one of his top commanders counters an attack *meant for WB *all of a sudden the top tier was “just being casual” and “not being serious.”

Gtfo with that shit. They were attacks meant for WB.

Reactions: Like 2


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## xmysticgohanx (Mar 14, 2018)

Kai said:


> Funny how attacks stopped or countered by WB directly are seen as legit, but if one of his top commanders counters an attack *meant for WB *all of a sudden the top tier was “just being casual” and “not being serious.”
> 
> Gtfo with that shit. They were attacks meant for WB.


 There are three options:

1. Mihawk wasn't serous

2. Mihawk didn't use the Breath of Diamond

3. Mihawk is not a top tier

#1 and #3 are incredibly weak


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## Quipchaque (Mar 14, 2018)

Kai said:


> Funny how attacks stopped or countered by WB directly are seen as legit, but if one of his top commanders counters an attack *meant for WB *all of a sudden the top tier was “just being casual” and “not being serious.”
> 
> Gtfo with that shit. They were attacks meant for WB.


That ist No reason why The Attack Must be super-strong. If that were The Case Then The Admirals should have Used Their strongest awakening attacks but they didnt. And for all we Know Mihawk Has an ashura equivalent (which ist VERY likely) so that would amplify His Attack strength a Ton above The shown feats.

Honestly You are making a Big Deal Out of nothing. You dont Need Your strongest attacks to measure Your strength against whitebeard all You Need is one that could be lethal. You Act Like anything below Your very best is Not worth of whitebeards Attention and He would casually Tank it or Something.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Kai (Mar 14, 2018)

You’re damage controlling and it’s a bad attempt to save face when it makes the most literary sense he was serious in attacking WB. As well as downplaying attacks that were in fact meant for WB but intercepted.

And no shit an attack meant for WB will be top tier as the rest of us don’t hold the fairy tale where Mihawk tests WB like he tests Luffy for fucks sake.

At least with Naruto and DB the fans of those like-chars admit when they’re wanking.


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## PwnGoatVSPandaman (Mar 14, 2018)

xmysticgohanx said:


> There are three options:
> 
> 1. Mihawk wasn't serous
> 
> ...


1) Doflamingo is a top tier (albeit the entry point to top tier)
2) Vista is stronger than Doflamingo
3) Mihawk and Vista are equal and top tier
4) Jozu is two steps in the top commander position than Vista is.

Mihawk is akin to Smoothie or Snack. I say those two since Cracker is actually > Smoothie.

Sorry but Mihawk's serious attack was stopped casually by Jozu.

Your damage control is weak.

The attack against whitebeard was stronger than the one against luffy.
Jozu didn't stop the slash cuz he's diamond or cuz of tanking either, he stopped it with pure physical strength.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## xmysticgohanx (Mar 14, 2018)

PwnGoatVSPandaman said:


> 1) Doflamingo is a top tier (albeit the entry point to top tier)
> 2) Vista is stronger than Doflamingo
> 3) Mihawk and Vista are equal and top tier
> 4) Jozu is two steps in the top commander position than Vista is.
> ...



Our definitions of top tiers seem to be different. 

My definition of top tier (aka what I meant when I said top tier in the post you quoted): No one alive can beat them without high diff or higher.

Doffy and Vista can't be top tiers if others are significantly above them.


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## shisuiuchiha5 (Mar 14, 2018)

PwnGoatVSPandaman said:


> 1) Doflamingo is a top tier (albeit the entry point to top tier)
> 2) Vista is stronger than Doflamingo
> 3) Mihawk and Vista are equal and top tier
> 4) Jozu is two steps in the top commander position than Vista is.
> ...




Mihawk wasn't serious.
It was a casual one armed swing also it was an unnamed slash.mihawk used a larger slash on Luffy and cut a mountain sized glacier.

Mihawk was looking at Luffy the entire time while fighting against Vista.

It was stated in datatbook that mihawk is no1 swordsman

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## PwnGoatVSPandaman (Mar 14, 2018)

shisuiuchiha5 said:


> Mihawk wasn't serious.
> It was a casual one armed swing also it was an unnamed slash.mihawk used a larger slash on Luffy and cut a mountain sized glacier.
> 
> Mihawk was looking at Luffy the entire time while fighting against Vista.
> ...


You're literally making shit up.

1) Mountain cutting is a high tier feat, Mihawk's attack against whitebeard was stronger. Mihawk has no named attacks.
2) Mihawk looked over for 2 seconds at Luffy while Vista and Mihawk were already in a sword clash, then the two looked at each other while they fought for muyltiple minutes.
3) His title his the number 1 swordsman, he's never fought Vista, he refuses to fight Shanks, and he's probably never fought Rayleigh. The strongest characters Mihawk has defeated that we know of is zoro, pre skip daz bones, and some cross dressing swordsman with no name.

"Mihawk looked at Luffy the whole time"



I'm not going to let you make shit up, you don't know anything about hunter x hunter, and you don't know anything about one piece.


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## PwnGoatVSPandaman (Mar 14, 2018)

xmysticgohanx said:


> Our definitions of top tiers seem to be different.
> 
> My definition of top tier (aka what I meant when I said top tier in the post you quoted): No one alive can beat them without high diff or higher.
> 
> Doffy and Vista can't be top tiers if others are significantly above them.


By that definition the admirals aren't top tier either.

Tiers are just ways to gauge the strength of characters compared to EVERYONE else.
It's all relative.

Top tier is a portion of the characters that are above high tier.
High tier are the vice admirals and sanjis and zoros and so forth.
Mid tiers are pretty much everyone from like alabasta robin to like marineford luffy.
Low tier is everyone weaker than alabsta robin.


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## xmysticgohanx (Mar 14, 2018)

PwnGoatVSPandaman said:


> By that definition the admirals aren't top tier either.
> 
> Tiers are just ways to gauge the strength of characters compared to EVERYONE else.
> It's all relative.
> ...


 In my view, admirals fit that definition


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## PwnGoatVSPandaman (Mar 14, 2018)

xmysticgohanx said:


> In my view, admirals fit that definition


My definition, not yours.
Primebeard and Prime Roger would low diff someone like Ishoo or Akainu.


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## xmysticgohanx (Mar 15, 2018)

PwnGoatVSPandaman said:


> My definition, not yours.
> Primebeard and Prime Roger would low diff someone like Ishoo or Akainu.


 my definition explicitly days "alive"
That's not true anyway. Mid diff at worst

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## PwnGoatVSPandaman (Mar 15, 2018)

xmysticgohanx said:


> my definition explicitly days "alive"
> That's not true anyway. Mid diff at worst


Whitebeard heavily nerfed in old age beat akainu with 2 hits, even if we don't boost quakes, he still loses after two hits and the difference is that he doesn't hit them.

Kaidou arguably can low diff ishoo.


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## DoctorLaw (Mar 15, 2018)

Kai said:


> You’re damage controlling and it’s a bad attempt to save face when it makes the most literary sense he was serious in attacking WB. As well as downplaying attacks that were in fact meant for WB but intercepted.
> 
> And no shit an attack meant for WB will be top tier as the rest of us don’t hold the fairy tale where Mihawk tests WB like he tests Luffy for fucks sake.
> 
> At least with Naruto and DB the fans of those like-chars admit when they’re wanking.



You are aware characters don’t always have to use their full power when they fight right? He could be serious, but not using 100%. For example, Katakuri was dead serious about beating Luffy, and once he got REALLY serious he pulled out new attacks. Same with Lucci, and pretty much every character that fights in this manga. All the time. Mihawk has stronger attacks just like every other hyped enemy had stronger attacks.


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## DoctorLaw (Mar 15, 2018)

PwnGoatVSPandaman said:


> *Kaidou arguably can low diff ishoo*.



How?


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## PwnGoatVSPandaman (Mar 15, 2018)

DoctorLaw said:


> How?


The fact that a g3 can bruise ishoo and Kaidou is >>>>>>>>>>>> G4 Luffy.


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## DoctorLaw (Mar 15, 2018)

PwnGoatVSPandaman said:


> My definition, not yours.
> Primebeard and Prime Roger would low diff someone like Ishoo or Akainu.



If that’s true, that means one of these is true:

EOS Luffy can be low/mid diffed by Primebeard

Fuji/Akainu aren’t admiral level and EOS Luffy stomps him.

Akainu is an EOS opponent, he will be strong enough to challenge Luffy at the end, and I doubt that Luffy gets low diffed by anyone.


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## DoctorLaw (Mar 15, 2018)

PwnGoatVSPandaman said:


> The fact that a g3 can bruise ishoo and Kaidou is >>>>>>>>>>>> G4 Luffy.



G3 didn’t bruise Fuji, and he blocked it taking 0 damage without even using haki. He was only pushed back. 

Also, Fujitora has only briefly shown what he’s capable of. To assume that G3 is stronger than him and that Oda created an admiral who is mid tier is ridiculous. Why introduce him as an admiral that can rain meteors?


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## shisuiuchiha5 (Mar 15, 2018)

PwnGoatVSPandaman said:


> The fact that a g3 can bruise ishoo and Kaidou is >>>>>>>>>>>> G4 Luffy.



Gear 3 didn't bruise fujitora at all.it just left a dirt mark which vanished later.also fujitora was focusing most of his energy in holding all the rubble of dressrosa,which would strain him.


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## DoctorLaw (Mar 15, 2018)

PwnGoatVSPandaman said:


> 1) Doflamingo is a top tier (albeit the entry point to top tier)
> 2) Vista is stronger than Doflamingo
> 3) Mihawk and Vista are equal and top tier
> 4) Jozu is two steps in the top commander position than Vista is.
> ...



Then why was Jozu drawn defending against it in his diamond form? Common sense tells us he needed to use the diamond ability


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## PwnGoatVSPandaman (Mar 15, 2018)

DoctorLaw said:


> Then why was Jozu drawn defending against it in his diamond form? Common sense tells us he needed to use the diamond ability


Because he uses his diamond ability always. It's like Luffy using a jet pistol without particularly needing his devil fruit to beat fodder. (albeit mihawk isn't fodder) Your argument is that he needed to use his diamond ability but if he simply tanked it through diamonds, he wouldn't have been able to stop it, he'd have been fine but been sent flying, he instead grabbed the sword attack and simply stopped it with raw strength. He overpowered it with sheer strength alone.


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## PwnGoatVSPandaman (Mar 15, 2018)

shisuiuchiha5 said:


> Gear 3 didn't bruise fujitora at all.it just left a dirt mark which vanished later.also fujitora was focusing most of his energy in holding all the rubble of dressrosa,which would strain him.


Sounds like a weak excuse like all of your excuses you make.


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## PwnGoatVSPandaman (Mar 15, 2018)

DoctorLaw said:


> G3 didn’t bruise Fuji, and he blocked it taking 0 damage without even using haki. He was only pushed back.
> 
> Also, Fujitora has only briefly shown what he’s capable of. To assume that G3 is stronger than him and that Oda created an admiral who is mid tier is ridiculous. Why introduce him as an admiral that can rain meteors?


No one said g3 is stronger than ishoo, but g3 was enough to push him some. G4 can reasonably beat Ishoo and Kaidou could thrash someone like Katakuri with no difficulty. 

Mid tier is pre timeskip luffy and weaker.


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## PwnGoatVSPandaman (Mar 15, 2018)

DoctorLaw said:


> If that’s true, that means one of these is true:
> 
> EOS Luffy can be low/mid diffed by Primebeard
> 
> ...


EOS Luffy >>>>>>> Ishoo and Akainu
If akainu isn't admiral level, no one is, he beat another admiral. 
Akainu isn't an EOS opponent, even with the power up he will have probably gotten over the timeskip, sorry but Blackbeard >>> Akainu and even Blackbeard might lose in the next few arcs.


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## shisuiuchiha5 (Mar 15, 2018)

PwnGoatVSPandaman said:


> The fact that a g3 can bruise ishoo and Kaidou is >>>>>>>>>>>> G4 Luffy.


Fujitora was caught off guard when he was hit by Luffy in gear 3 and it left only a minor dirt mark which vanished.


But later he is shown to be parrying with gear 3 attack easily



Fujitora was focusing most of his energy in holding all the rubble of dressrosa whichstrained his body and restricted him


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## PwnGoatVSPandaman (Mar 15, 2018)

shisuiuchiha5 said:


> Fujitora was caught off guard when he was hit by Luffy in gear 3 and it left only a minor dirt mark which vanished.
> 
> But later he is shown to be parrying with gear 3 attack easily
> 
> ...


1) That's called blood
2) He was sweating. 

Is there any proof he has to strain himself to carry it, why wouldn't the gravitation stay for a while on it's own merit? People aren't arguing that bird cage was an active doflamingo thing had to do during the luffy fight. Blackbeard did a similar thing with a town with his devil fruit and he didn't seem strained by it.


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## shisuiuchiha5 (Mar 15, 2018)

PwnGoatVSPandaman said:


> EOS Luffy >>>>>>> Ishoo and Akainu
> If akainu isn't admiral level, no one is, he beat another admiral.
> Akainu isn't an EOS opponent, even with the power up he will have probably gotten over the timeskip, sorry but Blackbeard >>> Akainu and even Blackbeard might lose in the next few arcs.



Admirals have to be at the same level as the yonkos or else the balance would not make sense,and wold government which is ruling the world for 800+ years would collapse.
Even garp himself said that the Marines + shichibukai exist to counter balance all 4 yonkos


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## PwnGoatVSPandaman (Mar 15, 2018)

shisuiuchiha5 said:


> Admirals have to be at the same level as the yonkos or else the balance would not make sense,and wold government which is ruling the world for 800+ years would collapse.
> Even garp himself said that the Marines + shichibukai exist to counter balance all 4 yonkos


No they don't
There are 3 admirals.
A shit ton of vice admirals
etc
The yonkou are in direct competition against each other.

It's really quite simple, 2 yonkou teaming up would thrash the marines + shichibukai, but 2 yonkou crews aren't allied (yet)
They were terrified at the thought that whitebeard and shanks were allying.

Pretty much if a yonkou had a do or die battle with the marines, no matter who won would be weakened enough where another yonkou can come in and take both out.


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## Raiden34 (Mar 15, 2018)

shisuiuchiha5 said:


> Fujitora was caught off guard when he was hit by Luffy in gear 3 and it left only a minor dirt mark which vanished.
> 
> 
> But later he is shown to be parrying with gear 3 attack easily
> ...


And Luffy? You're acting like as if Luffy wasn't fucking around and he wasn't holding back against Fujitora. He even says he can't attack him because he likes him. LOL.


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## Quipchaque (Mar 15, 2018)

Kai said:


> You’re damage controlling and it’s a bad attempt to save face when it makes the most literary sense he was serious in attacking WB. As well as downplaying attacks that were in fact meant for WB but intercepted.
> 
> And no shit an attack meant for WB will be top tier as the rest of us don’t hold the fairy tale where Mihawk tests WB like he tests Luffy for fucks sake.
> 
> At least with Naruto and DB the fans of those like-chars admit when they’re wanking.



OK Then answer this For me. If The Attack of Mihawk was one of His strongest Then how Come It is only comparable to 1080 Pound cannon and far inferior to The heaven Splitting feat by shanks and whitebeard? Also DO You believe yasakani No magatami is one of kiz strongest attacks? And DO You believe The strongest swordsman in The World who IS already Based on a Monster will be The only one among sulong-users, awakening and transforming swordsman Like Zoro and Cavendish who will Not have a power-up himself?


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## Raiden34 (Mar 15, 2018)

Mihawk tests WB? Ok.

Reactions: Like 1


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## xmysticgohanx (Mar 15, 2018)

PwnGoatVSPandaman said:


> Whitebeard heavily nerfed in old age beat akainu with 2 hits, even if we don't boost quakes, he still loses after two hits and the difference is that he doesn't hit them.
> 
> Kaidou arguably can low diff ishoo.


 You know I disagree with all of that.

Akainu was hit off guard by a bloodlusted Quake punch and he still managed to burn half of WB's face off.

Reverse the positions and WB would die right there.

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 1


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## shisuiuchiha5 (Mar 15, 2018)

PwnGoatVSPandaman said:


> Because he uses his diamond ability always. It's like Luffy using a jet pistol without particularly needing his devil fruit to beat fodder. (albeit mihawk isn't fodder) Your argument is that he needed to use his diamond ability but if he simply tanked it through diamonds, he wouldn't have been able to stop it, he'd have been fine but been sent flying, he instead grabbed the sword attack and simply stopped it with raw strength. He overpowered it with sheer strength alone.



Jozu always leaves small part of his body not covered in diamond for some reason,maybe so that his skin can keep breathing.Furthermore,Mihawk was aiming that slash at WB,who doesn't have as good defensive technique as Jozu,also,again,it was an unnamed attack,Mihawk was not trying to cut Jozu,but WB who only has Armament haki as a deffence. Mihawk IS the greatest swordsman,he is on top,no one is as good as him at swordsmanship.That is the meaning of being a top dog.He could do that,maybe,but he let Jozu do that.Why?To give Jozu a cool introduction?Or more likely,not risk it with Mihawk?No slash of Mihawk is weak objectively,but for him,that wasn't all that special.

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## shisuiuchiha5 (Mar 15, 2018)

Seraphoenix said:


> There was no strain, the anime made that up to hype Mihawk:
> 
> 
> 
> As you can see Jozu didn't get a scratch on him. Mihawk might be able to cut diamond, but based on the manga it's a bit shaky.



It was a casual one armed slash and t was an unnamed attack obviously someone as tanky as jozu was going to block it

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## shisuiuchiha5 (Mar 15, 2018)

PwnGoatVSPandaman said:


> Jozu > Thatch > Vista = Mihawk
> 
> Mihawk "Let me test my power against wb"
> > Gets no diffed rejected with his strongest attack against Jozu
> ...



It was a casual one arm slash also it was an unnamed slash.swordsman in general have named attacks because that's how they get most of thier efficiency from.

Since it was a one arm casual slash and it was unnamed,someone as tanky as jozu was obviously going to have an easy time dealing with a slash like that.

If mihawk used both of his arms an uses a named slash jozu would struggle a lot


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## shisuiuchiha5 (Mar 15, 2018)

PwnGoatVSPandaman said:


> Aoe =/= power
> 
> Not that it matters, Zoro will be surpassing Mihawk in a few arcs. Most likely by being someone who beats Mihawk.
> 
> ...



Shanks and mihawk's daily duels were so famous that they echoed everywhere in Grand line.

Even whitebeard calls thier duels as legendary.

Mihawk and shanks were definitely yonko levels at that time


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## PwnGoatVSPandaman (Mar 15, 2018)

shisuiuchiha5 said:


> It was a casual one arm slash also it was an unnamed slash.swordsman in general have named attacks because that's how they get most of thier efficiency from.
> 
> Since it was a one arm casual slash and it was unnamed,someone as tanky as jozu was obviously going to have an easy time dealing with a slash like that.
> 
> If mihawk used both of his arms an uses a named slash jozu would struggle a lot


- Not casual
- 90% of swordsman don't yell the name of the attack when they use them, only zoro.
- Jozu didn't tank it, he grabbed it and stopped it with pure strength
- No jozu wouldn't. 

Sorry that Mihawk's best feats are getting no sold by jozu and equaling Vista.


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## PwnGoatVSPandaman (Mar 15, 2018)

shisuiuchiha5 said:


> Jozu always leaves small part of his body not covered in diamond for some reason,maybe so that his skin can keep breathing.Furthermore,Mihawk was aiming that slash at WB,who doesn't have as good defensive technique as Jozu,also,again,it was an unnamed attack,Mihawk was not trying to cut Jozu,but WB who only has Armament haki as a deffence. Mihawk IS the greatest swordsman,he is on top,no one is as good as him at swordsmanship.That is the meaning of being a top dog.He could do that,maybe,but he let Jozu do that.Why?To give Jozu a cool introduction?Or more likely,not risk it with Mihawk?No slash of Mihawk is weak objectively,but for him,that wasn't all that special.


I'd assume that he leaves parts of his body not diamond because he can't move in diamond form if he's fully diamond.

You're honestly trying to say "oh if he knew he was attacking jozu instead of whitebeard, the strongest man in the world, he would have used a stronger attack", that's just......... stupid.

You keep implying that whitebeard would be defenseless but whitebeard would just meet the attack with his own, WB wouldn't need the gura either, he'd just hit it with his glave or whatever.

Mihawk is the greatest swordsman besides the 10 swordsman who can beat him.

I like how you're trying to make up stuff like "mihawk or oda purposely letting jozu block it to give him a cool introduction" because you can't mentally handle mihawk being as weak as he is, stop sucking mihawk's dirty cock, zoro is territorial.

It's nice that you have information that doesn't exist, how often does Mihawk talk about marineford to you in your fever dreams where you know it was nothing special to him?


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## PwnGoatVSPandaman (Mar 15, 2018)

xmysticgohanx said:


> You know I disagree with all of that.
> 
> Akainu was hit off guard by a bloodlusted Quake punch and he still managed to burn half of WB's face off.
> 
> Reverse the positions and WB would die right there.


And what would be the difference between a healthy whitebeard and a sick whitebeard? Old sick and post heart attack whitebeard showed the ability to block akainu attacks with glave parries and so forth (like the lava dog attack)

The only difference between pre heart attack whitebeard and sick whitebeard fighting akainu is that pre heart attack whitebeard would have hit him twice without getting hit himself.
Primebeard would have an easier time.

Reverse the positions and wb would die right there? You do realize whitebeard was hit 100's of times during marineford by a shit ton of characters, that squard stabbing him led to him having a heart attack that akainu DID get a free hit in during (when he couldn't move cuz of the heart attack)
So yeah, bullshit.

Akainu pumped lava into whitebeard's pretty much heart with a lava fist.
That was the wb that akainu faced, post heart attack, lava fist/pumping into his heart, post squard, post vice admirals ganking him, post multiple other things whitebeard faced akainu.


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## shisuiuchiha5 (Mar 16, 2018)

PwnGoatVSPandaman said:


> Or did it say he was the world's strongest swordsman, which is his title? Probably
> 
> Mihawk literally glanced over for 2 seconds tops before facing vista to fight, stop using anime or head canon.
> 
> ...



in one piece databook,it was stated that vista  is equal to mihawk only in swordsmanship.

in the rest of the categories like haki speed etc,mihawk is faar superior

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## PwnGoatVSPandaman (Mar 16, 2018)

shisuiuchiha5 said:


> in one piece databook,it was stated that vista  is equal to mihawk only in swordsmanship.
> 
> in the rest of the categories like haki speed etc,mihawk is faar superior


Based on what? They are equal based on their fight on speed and so forth.

You're just a Mihawk fanboy.


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## Exping (Mar 16, 2018)

PwnGoatVSPandaman said:


> Mihawk is top tier, he's a bit stronger than Doflamingo who is bottom of the barrel top tier.
> 
> The proof that Mihawk went all out is that he wanted to measure his strength against whitebeard himself and it was no sold by Jozu.
> 
> ...


woah didn't mihawk also one shot jinbei or was that just anime? ( at marineford ) and jinbei was able to tank a magma punch from akainu for luffy to get away


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## shisuiuchiha5 (Mar 17, 2018)

PwnGoatVSPandaman said:


> 1) Doflamingo is a top tier (albeit the entry point to top tier)
> 2) Vista is stronger than Doflamingo
> 3) Mihawk and Vista are equal and top tier
> 4) Jozu is two steps in the top commander position than Vista is.
> ...



lol are you actually trying to say that cracker is stronger than mihawk?

mihawk's large air slash was strong enough to cut a giant mountain sized glacier which would weigh like a thousand tons,i dont think cracker's biscuit soldiers could handle something like that,they would get chopped into two.

we really have not even seen much of smoothie in a fight,so we really cant be sure if she is weaker than cracker


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## shisuiuchiha5 (Mar 17, 2018)

PwnGoatVSPandaman said:


> You mean for like 2 seconds before they continued for a multi minute fight? Mihawk even implied Vista was distracted and should be elsewhere during their battle.
> 
> Mihawk was literally focused on Vista in a clash where both weren't pushing at each other and both were making small talk, Mihawk made one glare over at Luffy, then the fight continued.
> 
> ...



Mihawk=Yonko level
Vista=Top yonko commander level
There is difference between fighting someone and casually one-shoting someone.The fight between Mihawk and Vista lasted so long because Mihawk wanted a good fight,not because Vista is close to him in strenght.

Mihawk was just playing around with Vista,going easy on him so he could have a good fight from this war.



Oda didnt say that mihawk has the title of "World's strongest swordsman"
Oda has written that mihawk is the WORLD's Strongest swordsman which makes him the World's strongest swordsman in the one piece world.


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## PwnGoatVSPandaman (Mar 17, 2018)

shisuiuchiha5 said:


> Mihawk=Yonko level
> Vista=Top yonko commander level
> There is difference between fighting someone and casually one-shoting someone.The fight between Mihawk and Vista lasted so long because Mihawk wanted a good fight,not because Vista is close to him in strenght.
> 
> ...


Mihawk = Vista leveled
Vista = Vista leveled

You are literally making bullshit up, there is literally nothing to prove Mihawk was any more casual with Vista than Vista was with Mihawk. 

No, Vista was equalizing Mihawk.

That in verse title and picture is cool, but Vista had never even met Mihawk before so it's irrelevant. 

It's his in verse title, heck maybe Oda at one point wanted him to be the strongest outright but one piece lasted longer than he probably expected so he brought in other swordsman including one who is equal to Mihawk (Vista)


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## PwnGoatVSPandaman (Mar 17, 2018)

shisuiuchiha5 said:


> lol are you actually trying to say that cracker is stronger than mihawk?
> 
> mihawk's large air slash was strong enough to cut a giant mountain sized glacier which would weigh like a thousand tons,i dont think cracker's biscuit soldiers could handle something like that,they would get chopped into two.
> 
> we really have not even seen much of smoothie in a fight,so we really cant be sure if she is weaker than cracker


Luffy can punch that glacier to pieces and each biscuit soldier could parry g3 individually and took a kong gun to destroy their shield or themselves. You seem to be under the assumption of: "oh he can cut a mountain and a biscuit soldier is smaller than a mountain" like that's an actually valid point. Biscuit soldiers can overwhelm g4 Luffy, sorry but Mihawk is going to get overwhelmed.

Cracker's power wasn't known to the world government, they thought he was only a single biscuit soldier pretty much, so his bounty is irrelevant to his power. Cracker is > or = Katakuri.


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## PwnGoatVSPandaman (Mar 17, 2018)

Exping said:


> woah didn't mihawk also one shot jinbei or was that just anime? ( at marineford ) and jinbei was able to tank a magma punch from akainu for luffy to get away


Jinbei was one hit by no one in the entirety of his existence, especially not Mihawk, maybe Mihawk hit him but I doubt it, if he did Jinbei kept trekking on like it didn't happen.


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## shisuiuchiha5 (Mar 17, 2018)

PwnGoatVSPandaman said:


> No they don't
> There are 3 admirals.
> A shit ton of vice admirals
> etc
> ...



fleet admiral is stronger than admirals and fleet admirals should be at the same level as the yonkos.
I mean the marines should be having at least 1 yonko level fighter,or else the wiorld government which is ruling the world for 800+ years would collapse immediately if 1 or 2yonkos is enough to take them down


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## PwnGoatVSPandaman (Mar 17, 2018)

shisuiuchiha5 said:


> fleet admiral is stronger than admirals and fleet admirals should be at the same level as the yonkos.
> I mean the marines should be having at least 1 yonko level fighter,or else the wiorld government which is ruling the world for 800+ years would collapse immediately if 1 or 2yonkos is enough to take them down


That's not how things work, Fleet Admiral is just an admiral with the most political draw when there is an opening really.
Sengoku is an exception since he's a Roger period but in old age he was pretty much admiral level exactly + had genius strategy.
Akainu if he got any stronger is because of his increased reach of fleet admiral allowing for him to impose his will more on events, not because he's a fleet admiral.

I mean why don't you think 4 yonkou first mates are enough, especially considering they also have possibly 100+ vice admirals, tons of military budget, etc. That being said, Garp is yonkou leveled if we scale him to Whitebeard minus health issue (but also taking off since gura gura wouldn't weaken with age) Then there is also 2 top commanderish leveled shichibukai via mihawk and doflamingo and not mihawk and weevil.

A specific wording is also important: World Government

The World Government isn't just the marines, who are already plenty strong themselves. Let's look at the world government even without the marines:
1) Kong, if anyone has a chance of being stronger than Yonkou leveled, it's Kong and Garp.
2) Cp0, who were able to hang with the blackbeard pirates apparently. It's worth noting that people only assume Lucci is the leader of cp0 because he was the leader of cp9 and had a power boost over the timeskip, but no such thing exists, he's probably more like a sub-boss (one of a few) if you were to ask me. Also if we take one piece gold (the only post lucci feat we have), Lucci is able to hang with Sabo who has decent fire logia control and is just shy of admiral level. (and that was only when he didn't have much mastery with his new devil fruit). So Cp0 has the potential of having like 3+ post timeskip Lucci's.
3) Vegapunk: Things like having full understanding about what devil fruits are, to infusing devil fruits into weapons (zoans), to seastone coating on the bottom of ships to repel seakings, to pacifista (it's worth noting that we haven't seen a post skip pacifista and they are apparently stronger, the strawhats post timeskip fought pre timeskip models), etc.

And I think that just scratches the surface.

Plus I think there is something even deeper with the world government.

Also you act like yonkou crews pop up all the time, and that they aren't all at each others throats. A yonkou crew keeps power despite not being stronger than the other 3 crews together, it's because there is a power balance. The marines were genuinely worried though when shanks and whitebeard met, I think we'll see a blackbeard and kaidou alliance and it'll be something else that puts fear into all the characters.


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## Kai (Mar 17, 2018)

shisuiuchiha5 said:


> Mihawk was just playing around with Vista,going easy on him so he could have a good fight from this war.


It's people like you saying shit like this that gives Mihawk fans such a terrible wrap. 

It's been debunked to you so many times. Vista was also playing around and having a good time. For the last time prove Vista was exerting any more effort or sweat compared to Mihawk. They both weren't serious.


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## shisuiuchiha5 (Mar 17, 2018)

PwnGoatVSPandaman said:


> That's not how things work, Fleet Admiral is just an admiral with the most political draw when there is an opening really.
> Sengoku is an exception since he's a Roger period but in old age he was pretty much admiral level exactly + had genius strategy.
> Akainu if he got any stronger is because of his increased reach of fleet admiral allowing for him to impose his will more on events, not because he's a fleet admiral.
> 
> ...



World government has a lot of power.

But admirals are still crowned as the World government's Strongest military power.

Admirals have unrivaled endurance 

They have crazy stamina to fight against each other for 10 days.

Have vastly overpowered devil fruits and incredible haki.

The resignation of one admiral alone proved to have affected the military might of the world government.

Even jimbei himself stated that the resignation of aokiji from the Marines left a very detrimental impact on the marine's military might and also stated that losing someone of aokiji's Calibre also was a very big loss for the world government.


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## Exping (Mar 17, 2018)

PwnGoatVSPandaman said:


> Jinbei was one hit by no one in the entirety of his existence, especially not Mihawk, maybe Mihawk hit him but I doubt it, if he did Jinbei kept trekking on like it didn't happen.


Yeah it's non canon , can't find it in manga. ANyway mihawk and vista both seemed equal and testing each other swordsmanship for their first meeting. And Jozu would beat vista tbh,

We got to remember none of the WB commanders were targeting mihawk except for vista so that's why he was unscratched, while Jozu fought admirals, and just because Jozu is diamond and Mihawk has a blade doesn't mean jozu going to stand there and let mihawk test if he can cut diamond or not.

Jozu is fast, confirmed from crocodile he was surprised he was so big yet so fast.


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## PwnGoatVSPandaman (Mar 17, 2018)

shisuiuchiha5 said:


> World government has a lot of power.
> 
> But admirals are still crowned as the World government's Strongest military power.
> 
> ...


No, they are crowned as the marines' strongest military power.

Admirals have average endurance for top tiers.

Ace and Jinbei had a 5 day fight when both were weaker.

A lot of people have overpowered devil fruits and increidlbe power.

And then the world government granted them with more power than before, also it wasn't one admiral, sengoku and garp took a backseat role so akainu had to come in so they had to replace 2 admirals and they did.

Jinbei*, not jimbei, jim is the guy who lives under the bridge.

Yes it left a hole, that was replaced, aokiji isn't irrelevant but let's not pretend admirals are the be all end all.


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## PwnGoatVSPandaman (Mar 17, 2018)

Exping said:


> Yeah it's non canon , can't find it in manga. ANyway mihawk and vista both seemed equal and testing each other swordsmanship for their first meeting. And Jozu would beat vista tbh,
> 
> We got to remember none of the WB commanders were targeting mihawk except for vista so that's why he was unscratched, while Jozu fought admirals, and just because Jozu is diamond and Mihawk has a blade doesn't mean jozu going to stand there and let mihawk test if he can cut diamond or not.
> 
> Jozu is fast, confirmed from crocodile he was surprised he was so big yet so fast.


Jozu stopped Mihawk's slash btw with raw physical strength, not his diamond form, he wasn't knocked back fine, he physically stood his ground and forced his way through.
Jozu is a monster cqc fighter, ie why aokiji couldn't do much to him until the blindside, he probably also specializes in buso based on his character type.


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