# Raikage vs Orochimaru



## Khazzar (Sep 19, 2009)

_"GAR monsters brawl"_
*Conditions/Rules* : Orochimaru is healthy,he has all of his jutsu at disposal and has sacrifices prepared. Raikage is also ready to rumble ( no injury,full power ).
*Restrictions* : No restrictions at all. Orochimaru can use *everything* he has shown in the Manga,including Edo Tensei with Shodaime and Nidaime.
*Distance* : 50 m
*State of Mind* : Intent to kill
*Knowledge* : None except that they are powerfull - Kage level Ninja.



VS
​


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## Bart (Sep 19, 2009)

Tough battle.

There is still alot that we do not know about Raikage's abilities. Orochimaru's only way for victory is through the means of Yamata no Orochi, but I'm still unsure.

If Orochimaru calls fourth Edo Tensei with Shodai and Nidaime, it may cause problems, as Edo Tensei cannot be dispersed even if Orochimaru is killed. Yet, Sandaime managed to take them toe-to-toe at his age, alongside Enma. 

Raikage will give Shodai and Nidaime problems, especially due to his reflexes and synapses, not to mention his possession of the Raiton Shroud. Raikage trapped Juugo in an awkward spot; couldn't that be the same with Shodai and Nidaime? They can only be defeated if their souls are removed, but that's not to say they cannot be trapped.

Kusanagi would be pointless, considering the Raiton Shroud had deflected a Raiton attack, which may somewhat prove that it is impervious nature to all piercing offenses. I cannot see Manda influencing the battle, considering what Naruto did in Part I.


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## Khazzar (Sep 19, 2009)

Bartallen2 said:


> Orochimaru wins.



You'l be surprised how many people belive Raikage is > Oro. I'll write my own later anyhow.


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## Eternal Pein (Sep 19, 2009)

I dont know if Raikage can actually kill Orochimaru


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## Sadgoob (Sep 19, 2009)

There are very, very few ninja who can defeat a prepared Orochimaru. Raikage isn't one of them IMO. Also, I don't think Raikage's attacks have the Gar to kill Orochimaru and I'm pretty sure the sword of Kusanagi would be a key issue in this battle. I would say that Orochimaru has the significant advantage.


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## Intus Legere (Sep 19, 2009)

Orochimaru should win, because really, what would the Raikage do against those zombies?

Even if theoretically he could kill Orochimaru (which alone is a feat, since he seems to be simply unable to die), would the zombies be stopped just because of that? I'm not so sure.

The best the Raikage can acheive here, with luck, is a draw.


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## Khazzar (Sep 19, 2009)

Bartallen2 said:


> Tough battle.
> 
> There is still alot that we do not know about Raikage's abilities. Orochimaru's only way for victory is through the means of Yamata no Orochi, but I'm still unsure.
> 
> ...



Well the only thing Kusanagi was unable to pierce is Kyuubi's thick chakra skin. I doubt Raikage's Raiton shroud is more durable then that.


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## Bart (Sep 19, 2009)

Khazzar said:


> Well the only thing Kusanagi was unable to pierce is Kyuubi's thick chakra skin. I doubt Raikage's Raiton shroud is more durable then that.



Raikage's Raiton Shroud could be less durable, however that doesn't mean it can't block Orochimaru's Kusanagi. Raikage deflected Sasuke's raiton induced Katana, which somewhat supports a claim.


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## Vergil642 (Sep 19, 2009)

Edo Tensei takes it alone. Raikage can't beat or kill the zombie Hokages here, all he can do is waste his chakra smashing them up and trying to avoid the forests Hashirama throws at him.

Even if Oro dies (he can just hide for the whole battle with Leech All Creation) the Edo Tensei bodies still win it for him. At best Raikage can force a draw by outlasting Oro and forcing him to waste his chakra on Oral Rebirth by causing mortal wound after mortal wound.


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## Bart (Sep 19, 2009)

Vergil642 said:


> Edo Tensei takes it alone. Raikage can't beat or kill the zombie Hokages here, all he can do is waste his chakra smashing them up and trying to avoid the forests Hashirama throws at him.



Yes, but as I stated above, he can contain them somewhat, as it's most possible. Wasting Chakra on such a Ninjutsu would be pointless, as Sandaime knew.

Then again, the Raikage may know of Edo Tensei, considering that it seems to be a well known forbidden Jutsu, and prevent him from completing the seals, or better yet destroy the coffins.


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## Atlantic Storm (Sep 19, 2009)

Orochimaru wins. 

On his own, he's hard to kill anyway. But IC, he'll be using Edo Tensei. And even if Oro dies. They still live. And they're immortal tool. The best Raikage can hope for is a draw in this.


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## Bart (Sep 19, 2009)

Sandaime said:


> Orochimaru wins.
> 
> On his own, he's hard to kill anyway. But IC, he'll be using Edo Tensei. And even if Oro dies. They still live. And they're immortal tool. The best Raikage can hope for is a draw in this.



Yeah, Sandaime, I agree. But, as I said above, couldn't Raikage trap Shodai and Nidaime, as he had done with Juugo? On a side note, I don't think that Shodai and Nidaime will be catching up with Raikage, especially with his Raiton Shroud.


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## Sadgoob (Sep 19, 2009)

Shodai and Nidaime play minimal roles. The Raikage loses with or without Edo Tensei because Orochimaru can tank his attacks and surprise him with the unblockable kusanagi once he's within range. It will be difficult, but that's how Orochimaru wins.


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## hmph (Sep 19, 2009)

Again, Edo Tensei can be stopped by dealing with the coffins before the ritual is complete. Even though its presence is a tremendous threat to Raikage, he might be able to deal with it if he struck quick enough.

But that said, I don't think theres anything he can do about the White Snake form's poison/regeneration. It would come down to that if Edo Tensei failed and I think Oro would still win.


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## machiavelli2009 (Sep 19, 2009)

the fact that he can use edotensei made it an easy battle for oro. 
raikage gets raped. common its 3 kage level opponents vs one. kinda obvious, restrict edo and then ill say its 60/40 in raikage favor


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## Edward Newgate (Sep 19, 2009)

Orochimaru's Kusanagi is B rank, while Raikage's lightning shroud is probably A level. Even Chidori, which is A level, couldn't hurt him. Until he used Chidori, Sasuke's Chidorigatana (Another B rank) couldn't scratch him. If Orochimaru couldn't use Edo Tensei, I can't see him winning against Raikage, but Raikage won't defeat him either - He just can't kill Orochimaru, but Orochimaru's snake Jutsu won't do anything against Raikage.


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## Chainer (Sep 19, 2009)

If Raikage can stop the coffins before they fully emerge, then he'll definitely even the playing field. At 50 meters, he probably _can_, but he'll leave himself open in the meantime, to something like a spat Kusanagi or the like. While I have doubts of it's effectiveness, Orochimaru doesn't really need to worry about getting hurt, what with his regeneration _and_ healthy body.

With his large summons and, if necessary, White Snake Mode's Poison Humors, I see Orochimaru winning this with medium difficulty.


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## LucyXD94 (Sep 19, 2009)

Orochimaru takes this! Buahahaha i guess the raikage is strong but i think Orochimaru is better & stronger he has a ton of jutsu; assuming they are both at full health etc id sey..Orochi Wins! XD


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## Vergil642 (Sep 19, 2009)

Bartallen2 said:


> Yes, but as I stated above, he can contain them somewhat, as it's most possible. Wasting Chakra on such a Ninjutsu would be pointless, as Sandaime knew.
> 
> Then again, the Raikage may know of Edo Tensei, considering that it seems to be a well known forbidden Jutsu, and prevent him from completing the seals, or better yet destroy the coffins.



How is Raikage containing them? If he hits them, their bodies regenerate and they can always count on Hashirama's extremely powerful Mokuton to free them from any collapsed buildings, cliffs or what have you.


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## Grimmjowsensei (Sep 19, 2009)

Going with what we've seen from the edo tensei hokages here(whom Sarutobi was able to match in close quarter combat) they won't pose much problems, except for the wood techs and the darkness genjutsu.
Well, the darkness gen would certainly pose some problems for Raikage if it comes down to that actually... 
Dunno, this could go eitherway.
I have no doubt that Raikage would normally plow through the kages and makes his way through oro and bash his skull in, but Oro thanks to his extreme durability and regen can tank plenty of those. With the aid of the former hokages there is a chance that he can outlast Raikage here... But still, I wouldn't undermine Raikages chances of winning.


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## Koroshi (Sep 19, 2009)

Essentially, the only way Raikage can have a chance at defeating Orochimaru is if he manages to stop the coffins before they fully emerge. But since he doesn't have any knowledge, I'm assuming he won't just simply attack like that, even if he attempts to attack the coffins, it leaves him wide open for a counter-attack like Kusanagi, Fuuton: Daitoppa, Sen'ei Ta-Jashu, then there's Oro's boss summons. Raikage is just outmatched here.


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## Khazzar (Sep 19, 2009)

Well,Raikage doesnt have any knowledge on Oro,but that doesnt mean he doesnt know about Edo Tensei. Seems to me preety much every Kage has knowledge about it since Konoha Anbu/Jounins knew about the spell.
Raikage is extremly fast,this means he can probably counter his enemmies jutsu fast enough due to the fact he is a Kage,and is familiar with the most of Narutoverse Kinjutsu.


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## Bart (Sep 20, 2009)

Khazzar said:


> Well,Raikage doesnt have any knowledge on Oro,but that doesnt mean he doesnt know about Edo Tensei. Seems to me preety much every Kage has knowledge about it since Konoha Anbu/Jounins knew about the spell.



I somewhat agree with that as Shodai and Nidaime knew about Edo Tensei, and so did Sandaime and the ANBU members, which is somewhat suprising due to the differences in generations.

Edo Tensei may very well be a well known Ninjutsu.


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## mastergimmy (Sep 20, 2009)

Id say it goes to orachimaru if he can use edo tensei and summon the 2 kages. The darkness jutsu wood stuff him up.


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## Watchman (Sep 20, 2009)

Tsahi said:


> Orochimaru's Kusanagi is B rank, while Raikage's lightning shroud is probably A level. Even Chidori, which is A level, couldn't hurt him. Until he used Chidori, Sasuke's Chidorigatana (Another B rank) couldn't scratch him. If Orochimaru couldn't use Edo Tensei, I can't see him winning against Raikage, but Raikage won't defeat him either - He just can't kill Orochimaru, but Orochimaru's snake Jutsu won't do anything against Raikage.



Kusanagi is B-Rank?  I didn't know swords had ranks, or that those ranks were equivalent with Ninjutsu. Not to mention that high-level =/= great Jutsu - Kabuto's AoE Genjutsu in the Chuunin Exams was B-ranked, IIRC, and Preskip Sakura was uneffected by it.

Anyway, Edo Tensei = Orochimaru stomps, but even without it he wins - whilst one can argue that in Base Form he might not be able to achieve victory, I doubt anyone would argue that Yamata no Orochi or White Snake Form would still have Raikage winning - the former is just too powerful, and with the latter, the moment he draws blood he loses.


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## ? (Sep 20, 2009)

orochimaru takes this.

raikages fighting style just isn't going to cut it against someone like orochimaru.


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## Canute87 (Sep 20, 2009)

Physical attacks can't do crap against orochimaru.


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## Dariustwinblade (Sep 20, 2009)

And oro has futon which can despell raikage's Rikiton.

Oro's Futon>Raikage's Rikiton


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## Khazzar (Sep 20, 2009)

Dariustwinblade said:


> And oro has futon which can despell raikage's Rikiton.
> 
> Oro's Futon>Raikage's Rikiton



Well,Oro demonstarted 1 Fuuton jutsu to be honest. Perhaps it is > Raiton,but it doesnt dispell it,not that i have seen it,nor theManga agrees.


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## Grimmjowsensei (Sep 20, 2009)

Dariustwinblade said:


> And oro has futon which can despell raikage's Rikiton.
> 
> Oro's Futon>Raikage's Rikiton



It is a D rank fuuton, its arguable whether it can be useful as an offensive attack against Raikage's raiton shroud.


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## Black Sabbath II (Sep 20, 2009)

It's pretty obvious that Raikage has this one. Orochimaru is a tough opponent, but in all honesty Raikage is right at his level. Maybe even higher. His speed alone would be too much for Orochimaru to handle as he's been confirmed to outrun even the Sharingan. And he has 1 hit kill power as commented by Darui and C. According to them a simple powerbomb would have done Sasuke in. Thankfully he had Suusan'o for that. I think allot of people are just underestimating what Raikage is really capable of. He even took Sasuke to the limit and probably would have killed him with that last move hadn't Gaara come along. A Sasuke who supposedly now surpasses Itachi. Itachi, mind you, has beaten Orochimaru multiple times. Edo Tensei would probably cause Raikage some trouble, but he'd fight out of it pretty easily. If he can stand up to a curse seal 2 Juugo and a semi-invincible Suigetsu he can take out two rotting corpses.


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## Koroshi (Sep 20, 2009)

KumogakureRaikage said:


> It's pretty obvious that Raikage has this one. Orochimaru is a tough opponent, but in all honesty Raikage is right at his level. Maybe even higher.



You really don't get Orochimaru's power now do you? Only his brute strength and speed is arguably more stronger compared to Orochimaru, Oro has lots more Ninjutsu techs compared to Raikage and he will most definitely use them against Raikage, ot to mention summons which can overwhelm Raikage rather easily.



> His speed alone would be too much for Orochimaru to handle as he's been confirmed to outrun even the Sharingan. And he has 1 hit kill power as commented by Darui and C. According to them a simple powerbomb would have done Sasuke in. Thankfully he had Suusan'o for that.



and Orochimaru has White Snake Regeneration to counter Raiger Bomb, Physical attacks are pretty much useless on Orochimaru as he can jsut as easily regenerate from those attacks.



> I think allot of people are just underestimating what Raikage is really capable of. He even took Sasuke to the limit and probably would have killed him with that last move hadn't Gaara come along.



Which doesn't really matter as Orochimaru has adequate techniques to use against Raikage which Raikage has no definite counter against. Notably Edo Tensei.



> A Sasuke who supposedly now surpasses Itachi. Itachi, mind you, has beaten Orochimaru multiple times. Edo Tensei would probably cause Raikage some trouble, but he'd fight out of it pretty easily. If he can stand up to a curse seal 2 Juugo and a semi-invincible Suigetsu he can take out two rotting corpses.



A>B>C logic doesn't work here, Itachi only beat Orochimaru as he had the techniques necessary for Oro's defeat and Sasuke himself admitted he would've lost against a full-powered Orochimaru. 

Edo Tensei is an unbeatable technique unless you stop the coffins or have a Soul-Sealing technique, the corpses are not rotting but can regenerate from anything. Raikage has nothing that can definitely beat those Summons.


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## Black Sabbath II (Sep 20, 2009)

Koroshi said:


> You really don't get Orochimaru's power now do you? Only his brute strength and speed is arguably more stronger compared to Orochimaru, Oro has lots more Ninjutsu techs compared to Raikage and he will most definitely use them against Raikage, ot to mention summons which can overwhelm Raikage rather easily.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



First off.. Awesome sig. Love Road 

But more to the topic. I think you're underestimating Raikage a wee bit. I'll give you that Oro's vast knowledge of Jutsu could work against Raikage, but I'll get to him later. First Edo Tensei. We've seen Raikage punch a hole right through a curse seal 2 Juugo. And that's not something an average person can accomplish. If he can do that then if he got his hands or Shodai or Nidai he'd probably just break their bones with ease. They may not die, but they sure as heck can't move with every bone in their body broken. Regarding Oro himself we should note that Raikage's Taijutsu isn't anything like Naruto or Sasuke's. This is very advanced Taijutsu we're talking her. And with a Raiton shroud around him he could actually cause some massive damage. At the same time physical attacks wouldn't work on Raikage either. Looking back on his fight with Sasuke how many times was he hit? And the Amaterasu flame doesn't count as he intentionally let himself get burned. Allot of people thought Raikage was losing that fight when he was actually winning it. And I'm sorry if I might have misled you about the Sasuke thing. I wasn't comparing old Sasuke to Itachi. I was comparing the current Sasuke. The old Sasuke would have lost to Orochimaru probably, but since then he's gotten faaaaaar stronger, so you can't say for sure that he couldn't beat Orochimaru now.


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## Koroshi (Sep 20, 2009)

KumogakureRaikage said:


> But more to the topic. I think you're underestimating Raikage a wee bit. I'll give you that Oro's vast knowledge of Jutsu could work against Raikage, but I'll get to him later. First Edo Tensei. We've seen Raikage punch a hole right through a curse seal 2 Juugo. And that's not something an average person can accomplish. If he can do that then if he got his hands or Shodai or Nidai he'd probably just break their bones with ease. They may not die, but they sure as heck can't move with every bone in their body broken.



No I'm not underestimating Raikage, ultimately you're underestimating Edo Tensei. Ultimately Mokuton, Suitons will deter Raikage from even attacking properly, then there's Orochimaru who will aid them in attacking and Edo Tensei regenerates the summons IIRC. Orochimaru also has his Snake Summons or have you forgotten Manda. How does Raikage defeat Manda daresay I ask?



> Regarding Oro himself we should note that Raikage's Taijutsu isn't anything like Naruto or Sasuke's. This is very advanced Taijutsu we're talking her. And with a Raiton shroud around him he could actually cause some massive damage. At the same time physical attacks wouldn't work on Raikage either. Looking back on his fight with Sasuke how many times was he hit? And the Amaterasu flame doesn't count as he intentionally let himself get burned. Allot of people thought Raikage was losing that fight when he was actually winning it.



You're point being? Taijutsu will not work against Orochimaru, he will simply regenerate using White Snake Regeneration and counter with Kusanagi or any other Snake Summon he has. Not to mention the fact that Raikage cannot defeat Manda. He just cannot defeat a summon of Manda's size.



> And I'm sorry if I might have misled you about the Sasuke thing. I wasn't comparing old Sasuke to Itachi. I was comparing the current Sasuke. The old Sasuke would have lost to Orochimaru probably, but since then he's gotten faaaaaar stronger, so you can't say for sure that he couldn't beat Orochimaru now.



No ORochimaru will still win with Edo Tensei and/or Snake Summons


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## Harry Balzac (Sep 20, 2009)

Healthy orochimaru?? lol. Oro takes it np

Very SPECIAL few can defeat orochimaru with all his jutsu and power. Only a sharingan/rinnegan user or can overpower his techniques (IMO). Orochimaru is by far one of the deadliest ninja we've seen and that's the truth. I DO think he can beat reikage with the 2 summonings (1st, 2nd hokages) not to mention if he succesfully summons the 4th hokage as well. I mean I don't know about ya but i don't find reikage as good as orochimaru.

oro was a true genius


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## Jodyjoe the great (Sep 20, 2009)

Koroshi said:


> You really don't get Orochimaru's power now do you? Only his brute strength and speed is arguably more stronger compared to Orochimaru, Oro has lots more Ninjutsu techs compared to Raikage and he will most definitely use them against Raikage, ot to mention summons which can overwhelm Raikage rather easily.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



im i wrong but didn't itachi beat oro with genjustu he wasn't even using ms is that a joke 

and by A>B>C LOGIC! wat do u mean


raikage take it with ease


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## Koroshi (Sep 20, 2009)

Jodyjoe the great said:


> im i wrong but didn't itachi beat oro with genjustu he wasn't even using ms is that a joke
> 
> and by A>B>C LOGIC! wat do u mean
> 
> ...



Wow what good logic.

Exactly that, just because Itachi>Orochimaru with Genjutsu, Sasuke>Itachi, then Raikage>Sasuke(Arguably) doesn't mean that Raikage>Orochimaru, Orochimaru has lots of techniques that Raikage can't counter, notably Edo Tensei, Snake Summons and his various Ninjutsus and Kusanagi. Raikage is just simply outmatched by Orochimaru's summons, Edo Tensei and his various techiques.


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## Jodyjoe the great (Sep 20, 2009)

Koroshi said:


> Wow what good logic.
> 
> Exactly that, just because Itachi>Orochimaru with Genjutsu, *Sasuke>Itachi,* then Raikage>Sasuke(Arguably) doesn't mean that Raikage>Orochimaru, Orochimaru has lots of techniques that Raikage can't counter, notably Edo Tensei, Snake Summons and his various Ninjutsus and Kusanagi. Raikage is just simply outmatched by Orochimaru's summons, Edo Tensei and his various techiques.



where did that come from

raikage could just beat him to death since hes stronger faster ad just at another lvl


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## ZergKage (Sep 21, 2009)

Lets see if i can add fuel to the fire...

Raikage rips Orochimaru's arms off ala Itachi cutting Orochimaru's hand off. No arms, no jutsu.


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## Khazzar (Sep 21, 2009)

ZergKage said:


> Lets see if i can add fuel to the fire...
> 
> Raikage rips Orochimaru's arms off ala Itachi cutting Orochimaru's hand off. No arms, no jutsu.



It is meaningless with Oro's "Oral Rebirth" jutsu. That is ofcourse if you reckon Raikage can do this without consequences.


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## the box (Sep 21, 2009)

riakage lacks uchiha genjutsu


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## Soul (Sep 21, 2009)

Orochimaru wins with moderate difficulty

Sure, the Raikage is faster and stronger, but:

- He can kill edo Tensei summons
- Orochimaru can regenerate from damage and poison him.

This two factors will help Orochimaru a lot, and those are the main reasons why I believe that Orochimaru should win.


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## Hiruzen (Sep 21, 2009)

Orochimaru wins. He is durable as fuck, and will release a shitload of jutsu, one being Edo Tensei. Even if Raikage avoids his attacks, he's not gonna kill Oro.


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## Suu (Sep 21, 2009)

Vergil642 said:


> How is Raikage containing them? If he hits them, their bodies regenerate and they can always count on Hashirama's extremely powerful Mokuton to free them from any collapsed buildings, cliffs or what have you.


I think they only get their regenerative bodies when Orochimaru puts those weird tags inside their bodies. 

If the Raikage can blitz to prevent Orochimaru from doing that, then he may be able to effectively 'negate' the technique.

Can't say for sure though.


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## Koroshi (Sep 22, 2009)

Jodyjoe the great said:


> where did that come from
> 
> raikage could just beat him to death since hes stronger faster ad just at another lvl



I can see the light

There's no definite point that Raikage can easily speedblitz Orochimaru before he can even do anything, even if he manages to speedblitz him, Orochimaru can regenerate his body using Oral Rebirth and how does Raikage manage against Manda again? Orochimaru just has large-scale techniques that Raikage cannot hope to handle.


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## Bart (Sep 22, 2009)

One extremely important point which everyone is forgetting; that Suu highlighted:

How exactly does Orochimaru plan to place the tags on both Shodai and Nidaime? It's understandable that Sandaime didn't move, due to the shock and regrettable fact he would be fighting his former masters, the Raikage would be at Orochimaru within an instant.

Remember, Edo Tensei is seemingly a very known forms of Kinjutsu, which I'm sure the Raikage knows of, especially considering that Shodai and Nidaime (both from a different generation) knew of it, as did Sandaime and the ANBU members observing in Part I. 

If Raikage knew of Amaterasu surely he'd know of Edo Tensei.


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## Koroshi (Sep 22, 2009)

Fact is Bart, Edo Tensei is not the decider of this match, it's the fact that most physical attacks won't matter much to Orochimaru, his Snake summons that can overwhelm Raikage or just his flexibility and Kusanagi. Edo Tensei is not the only technique that can defeat Raikage.


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## Rock lee rumble (Sep 22, 2009)

I'm sorry bartallen but i have to disagree. Oro was %$@&ed up differently by 4 tailed naruto but he just got back up,m i see that happening with the raikage. Then oro has manda, that'll keep raikage busy wayy long enough for him to use edo tensai and this time he'll summon the fourth as well.​


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## Bart (Sep 22, 2009)

Rock lee rumble said:


> I'm sorry bartallen but i have to disagree. Oro was %$@&ed up differently by 4 tailed naruto but he just got back up,m i see that happening with the raikage. Then oro has manda, that'll keep raikage busy wayy long enough for him to use edo tensai and this time he'll summon the fourth as well.​



Hey Rock Lee 

I can't see Orochimaru summoning Yondaime, considering that his soul is tied elsewhere. Manda will be easily defeated by Raikage, considering what Naruto did to a Snake of similar size in the Forest of Death in Part I.


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## Koroshi (Sep 22, 2009)

Bartallen2 said:


> Hey Rock Lee
> 
> I can't see Orochimaru summoning Yondaime, considering that his soul is tied elsewhere. Manda will be easily defeated by Raikage, *considering what Naruto did to a Snake of similar size in the Forest of Death in Part I.*



- There are other ninjas who are arguably stronger compared to Yondaime.
- Raikage can't spam KB like Naruto can.
- Manda is much more bigger compared to the FoD Snake, I'm sure you made a mistake and all but there's a reason why Manda is a boss summon.

Raikage has no chance at defeating Manda who can hold his own against Katsuyu and Gamabunta at the same time.


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## Bart (Sep 22, 2009)

Koroshi said:


> There are other ninjas who are arguably stronger compared to Yondaime.
> - Raikage can't spam KB like Naruto can.
> - Manda is much more bigger compared to the FoD Snake, I'm sure you made a mistake and all but there's a reason why Manda is a boss summon.



*1.* True, but does Orochimaru know about them and whether their deceased?
*2.* I was refering to this and most importantly this.
*3.* Manda may have been large, but it's difficult to compare the sizes.



Koroshi said:


> - Raikage has no chance at defeating Manda who can hold his own against Katsuyu and Gamabunta at the same time.



Raikage is Bijuu level. Raiton Shroud and his other Raiton offenses will easily take down Manda.

Manda is not going to catch, let alone touch the Raikage, as he will be cut up by Raiton and have the strongest form of Taijutsu that we've arguably seen to date unleashed upon him.

You do remember what Tsunade did to Manda?


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## Watchman (Sep 22, 2009)

Bartallen2 said:


> Manda may have been large, but it's difficult to compare the sizes.



No it's not.

Check out Orochimaru on a Forest of Death Snake

Check out Orochimaru on Manda

Manda is _much_ larger than the Forest of Death Snake, and it's not at all difficult to tell.

Raikage is Bijuu level. Raiton Shroud and his other Raiton offenses will easily take down Manda.

Manda is not going to catch, let alone touch the Raikage, as he will be cut up by Raiton and have the strongest form of Taijutsu that we've arguably seen to date unleashed upon him.

Manda will easily take down Raikage - it's a fucking Boss Summon comparing itself to someone in brute strength. It's fast enough to escape Gamabunta and Jiraiya's combined oil + katon AFTER it's fired, which is more than enough to get Raikage, and bite him in half.



> You do remember what Tsunade did to Manda?



Whilst Manda was distracted with Gamabunta, yes. Do you think that Tsunade by herself, without Katsuyu, Jiraiya or Gamabunta there, could beat Manda?


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## Bart (Sep 22, 2009)

Watchman said:


> Manda will easily take down Raikage - it's a fucking Boss Summon comparing itself to someone in brute strength. It's fast enough to escape Gamabunta and Jiraiya's combined oil + katon AFTER it's fired, which is more than enough to get Raikage, and bite him in half.



Thanks for your response, Watchman; especially showing the size of both of the snakes 

I will not buy that for one moment that the Raikage, one of the strongest Shinobi within the Naruto Universe, will be taking down by a summoning beast such as Manda.

Fast enough to escape Gamabunta and Jiraiya's oil + katon, but we are dealing with arguably the fastest Shinobi we have seen within the Shinobi World; dodging Amaterasu, Juugo's Chakra blasts and breaking Susanoo twice.



Watchman said:


> Whilst Manda was distracted with Gamabunta, yes. Do you think that Tsunade by herself, without Katsuyu, Jiraiya or Gamabunta there, could beat Manda?



The Raikage is alot different, due to his massive amount of speed and strength.


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## Jodyjoe the great (Sep 22, 2009)

the raikage can just move behind him fast and cut off his head 

also oro has been physically beaten by Tsunade theres a limt to the damage he can receive he cant rebirth 247


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## Koroshi (Sep 22, 2009)

Bartallen2 said:


> Thanks for your response, Watchman; especially showing the size of both of the snakes
> 
> I will not buy that for one moment that the Raikage, one of the strongest Shinobi within the Naruto Universe, will be taking down by a summoning beast such as Manda.
> 
> Fast enough to escape Gamabunta and Jiraiya's oil + katon, but we are dealing with arguably the fastest Shinobi we have seen within the Shinobi World; dodging Amaterasu, Juugo's Chakra blasts and breaking Susanoo twice.



Why do you not get it Bart? Manda is a giant summon, lots of times larger than Raikage, he dodged the Katon+Oil combo after it was fired and can shed his skin in case it gets really damaged. Raikage is powerful but he's not powerful enough to take on a giant boss summon like Manda.




Jodyjoe the great said:


> the raikage can just move behind him fast and cut off his head
> 
> also oro has been physically beaten by Tsunade theres a limt to the damage he can receive he cant rebirth 247



Raikage is not extremely faster than Orochimaru until he can't even react to his attacks, note the distance is too far away for Raiakge to blitz.

What limit has been shown exactly? He regenerated even after his hands' Souls were taken away from him, he still got back up and was okay after getting punched by Tsunade, he was also fast enough to react to KN4 Chakra blast and was merely playing around with a beast like KN4.


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## Jodyjoe the great (Sep 22, 2009)

Koroshi said:


> Why do you not get it Bart? Manda is a giant summon, lots of times larger than Raikage, he dodged the Katon+Oil combo after it was fired and can shed his skin in case it gets really damaged. Raikage is powerful but he's not powerful enough to take on a giant boss summon like Manda.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




oyea hes the strongest in th manga with no limts to his power and Tsunade,beating didn't have any affect on him thats y he hit the floor and was blooding and panting

anyway raikage could cut his off his head  plain and simple and yes hes much faster the kyuubi is slow moving


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## ? (Sep 22, 2009)

orochimaru rapes. raikage hasn't shown he can hurt orochimaru to bad.he just isn't the right match up for orochimaru.


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## Koroshi (Sep 22, 2009)

Jodyjoe the great said:


> oyea hes the strongest in th manga with no limts to his power and Tsunade,beating didn't have any affect on him thats y he hit the floor and was blooding and panting
> 
> anyway raikage could cut his off his head  plain and simple and yes hes much faster the kyuubi is slow moving



His hands were sealed, he didn't have the ability to use his regular attacks like snake summoning.  Yet he was able to fight Jiraiya and Tsunade without losing too much, Orochimaru just is flexible and has a wide range of ppowers he can use to put out Raikage, Physical attacks won't work against him as regenerates and even if there's a limit, Raikage isn't fast enough to simply punch Orochimaru countless times until he can't even fight back. 

The distance is also an important factor, Raikage can't simply blitz in a distance like the on given in the OP, he isn't extremely faster than Orochimaru. Example: Sasuke attacked a dying Orochimaru and Oro could keep up with Sasuke. Now Sasuke is keeping up with Raikage, even if he's improved a lot, Orochimaru here is healthy so I don't see how he can't keep up with Raikage.


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## Khazzar (Sep 22, 2009)

Rock lee rumble said:


> I'm sorry bartallen but i have to disagree. Oro was %$@&ed up differently by 4 tailed naruto but he just got back up,m i see that happening with the raikage. Then oro has manda, that'll keep raikage busy wayy long enough for him to use edo tensai and this time he'll summon the fourth as well.​



He can't summon the Fourth since i wrote the rules. Read the rules again.



Bartallen2 said:


> Hey Rock Lee
> 
> I can't see Orochimaru summoning Yondaime, considering that his soul is tied elsewhere. Manda will be easily defeated by Raikage, considering what Naruto did to a Snake of similar size in the Forest of Death in Part I.



Manda will not be easily defeated by Raikage since Manda is eons,leagues above that Forest snake in terms of speed and power.


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## Khazzar (Sep 22, 2009)

Jodyjoe the great said:


> oyea hes the strongest in th manga with no limts to his power and Tsunade,beating didn't have any affect on him thats y he hit the floor and was blooding and panting
> 
> anyway raikage could cut his off his head  plain and simple and yes hes much faster the kyuubi is slow moving



No logic nor proper argument not just in this,but most of your posts here. Do you belive Raikage's speed will affect a Legendary Ninja like Orochimaru like it did against Sasuke? Plus with Hokages roaming around? If so,you've no idea what you're talking about.
1.Oro's speed is also impressive.
2.Oro can burrow at will.
3.Oro can use bunshin's.
4.Oro can use Oral Rebirth.
5.*Oro never ran out of chakra*. (Manga canon)


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## Jodyjoe the great (Sep 22, 2009)

Khazzar said:


> No logic nor proper argument not just in this,but most of your posts here. Do you belive Raikage's speed will affect a Legendary Ninja like Orochimaru like it did against Sasuke? Plus with Hokages roaming around? If so,you've no idea what you're talking about.
> 1.Oro's speed is also impressive.
> 2.Oro can burrow at will.
> 3.Oro can use bunshin's.
> ...



Isn't sasuke above Orochimaru NOW?. 

ppl here talk about no logic wat? the how will Orochimaru win its obvious ppl think hes sum type of god. 

Orochimaru speed is not on the same lvl with the raikage cuz thats saying hes as fast as the fourth its just not true or we would no pls....stop bring it up like its going to be his winning factor.

i have never seen Orochimaru use bunshin's. so i doubt he can bu he might i may have missed it 

the only probably is Oral Rebirth who cares if he has never ran out of chakra he obviously has a large amount but its not more than The Raikage 

Wat justu does Orochimaru have that has the power to take down The Raikage not even Amaterasu much affects him. *sasukes Chidori could not  even pierce his chest. In fact the Raikages Lightning Release Armor, is such that it also increases his defense, drastically reducing, if not completely negating, damage from incoming attacks.*

This is all on top off the offense ability's it gives like cutting throw solid objects.

Eventually Orochimaru WILL die his chakra is not infinite he cant spam Oral Rebirth forever  The technique requires a large amount of chakra to use.hes never been see running out of chakra but soo have alot of ppl does this mean they can keep going forever no!

SO wat does he have that can beat the Raikage ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!

*Orochimaru cant overpower the Raikage hes just to freaking strong!!!!!!*


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## Dariustwinblade (Sep 23, 2009)

Jodyjoe the great said:


> Isn't sasuke above Orochimaru NOW?.
> 
> ppl here talk about no logic wat? the how will Orochimaru win its obvious ppl think hes sum type of god.
> 
> ...






Wind Realease > Lightning Release. He could dispess raikage's armor with his futon and then kill him with the Kusanagi.


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## Bart (Sep 23, 2009)

Koroshi said:


> Why do you not get it Bart? Manda is a giant summon, lots of times larger than Raikage, he dodged the Katon+Oil combo after it was fired and can shed his skin in case it gets really damaged. Raikage is powerful but he's not powerful enough to take on a giant boss summon like Manda.



I acknowledge the fact that Manda is a boss summon, however that doesn't mean anything against arguably the fastest and strongest Shinobi we have seen to date.

Manda managed to hold his own against Katsuyu and Gamabunta due to the fact they were a similar size to him, not to mention that Katsuyu's acid offenses would be more accurate to such a large figure.

Manda will not catch or touch Raikage, becuase he is far faster and can attack surfaces that Manda will not be able to protect from, due to his size. If Raikage broke Susanoo twice, then Manda is very outmatched.


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## Koroshi (Sep 23, 2009)

Bartallen2 said:


> I acknowledge the fact that Manda is a boss summon, however that doesn't mean anything against arguably the fastest and strongest Shinobi we have seen to date.
> 
> Manda managed to hold his own against Katsuyu and Gamabunta due to the fact they were a similar size to him, not to mention that Katsuyu's acid offenses would be more accurate to such a large figure.
> 
> Manda will not catch or touch Raikage, becuase he is far faster and can attack surfaces that Manda will not be able to protect from, due to his size. If Raikage broke Susanoo twice, then Manda is very outmatched.



Manda can smash Raikage in with his immense size, Manda can burrow underground and surprise attack Raikage, Manda can shed his skin in the case of damage on the outside of his body, Raikage just is too small to deal with Manda.


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## Bart (Sep 23, 2009)

Koroshi said:


> Manda can smash Raikage in with his immense size, Manda can burrow underground and surprise attack Raikage, Manda can shed his skin in the case of damage on the outside of his body, Raikage just is too small to deal with Manda.



Smash an opponent who dodged Amaterasu at point blank range. I find a most intriguing possibility. Shed his skin? Against an opponent who broke Susanoo twice? I don't recall Manda doing such things against Tsunade.


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## Koroshi (Sep 23, 2009)

Bartallen2 said:


> Smash an opponent who dodged Amaterasu at point blank range. I find a most intriguing possibility. Shed his skin? Against an opponent who broke Susanoo twice? I don't recall Manda doing such things against Tsunade.



Yes he can smash Raikage, he is not immensely faster compared to Manda, note Manda dodged a Katon + Oil Jutsu after it was fired and also Katsuyu's acid shot and managed to coil around Katsuyu before she can even react. Yes he shed his skin(Look at the lower-left panel) . Manda also died only after getting hit by Deidara's large-scale C0 explosion.


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## Bart (Sep 23, 2009)

Koroshi said:


> Yes he can smash Raikage, he is not immensely faster compared to Manda, note Manda dodged a Katon + Oil Jutsu after it was fired and also Katsuyu's acid shot and managed to coil around Katsuyu before she can even react. Yes he shed his skin(Look at the lower-left panel) . Manda also died only after getting hit by Deidara's large-scale C0 explosion.



Brilliant post, Koroshi.

I should note that Katsuyu's Zesshinensan has only been seen to melt a rock, and it doesn't seem that Katsuyu has much accuracy, considering I doubt such a thing could be achieved on an opponent of a vastly smaller scale.

I didn't say that Manda cannot shed his skin, I merely stated that such a thing won't help against an offence which doesn't just offend externally. Manda managed to do that before Katsuyu could react, but I wouldn't compare Katsuyu to a Shinobi who has the fastest known reflexes at the present moment.


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## Koroshi (Sep 23, 2009)

Bartallen2 said:


> Brilliant post, Koroshi.
> 
> I should note that Katsuyu's Zesshinensan has only been seen to melt a rock, and it doesn't seem that Katsuyu has much accuracy, considering I doubt such a thing could be achieved on an opponent of a vastly smaller scale.



Accuracy is not the idea here, Manda is large so he's an easy target not to mention the fact that they were rather close, Katsuyu would be either stupid or Manda is just faster if she missed. He also managed to coil around her before she could even react, the fact that Raikage is smaller just gives an advantage to Manda, he can easily smash him  and he still was fast enough to dodge Katon + Oil combo and go underground.



> I didn't say that Manda cannot shed his skin, I merely stated that such a thing won't help against an offence which doesn't just offend externally. Manda managed to do that before Katsuyu could react, but I wouldn't compare Katsuyu to a Shinobi who has the fastest known reflexes at the present moment.



Raikage's punches are still physical attacks. Katsuyu is still more larger compared to Raikage, yet at the same time Manda was fast enough to wrap around her before she could even react. Note wrapping around something larger takes a longer time then wrapping something smaller. He can also go underground and surprise Raikage.


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## Jodyjoe the great (Sep 23, 2009)

Dariustwinblade said:


> Wind Realease > Lightning Release. He could dispess raikage's armor with his futon and then kill him with the Kusanagi.



*and wat futon is that he has no Wind Realease attacks i maybe wrong and just because of this he opposed to pierce the raikage thats great logic*

Raikgae rape-stomps oro and wins


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## perman07 (Sep 23, 2009)

Jodyjoe the great said:


> i have never seen Orochimaru use bunshin's. so i doubt he can bu he might i may have missed it
> [/B]


Actually, he used it against Anko when he left a clay bunshin, and he used it against Sandaime again. He did not get chakra-exhausted at all either time.

Not to say that I believe Raikage will lose. According to Battledome rules, we can only go by shown feats. And by feats Raikage definitely takes this.

But we have never seen Orochimaru go all out. Yamato no Orochi was actually pretty insane. And Sasuke would lose from poisoning if he hadn't taken over Orochimaru. And there's also the multitude of ninjutsu he hasn't shown. Do you honestly think Orochimaru only knows weak Fuutons.

By hype, I think Orochimaru has a real shot. It's possible he could actually beat Jiraya with unshown techniques given how he was depicted as superior. And if he was superior to Jiraya, than he definitely has a shot against Raikage. Of course, this is just speculation.


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## Koroshi (Sep 23, 2009)

Jodyjoe the great said:


> *and wat futon is that he has no Wind Realease attacks and just because of this he opposed to pierce the raikage thats great logic*
> 
> Raikgae rape-stomps oro and wins



Fuuton: Daitoppa is a technique used by Orochimaru. Even if it is weak, Fuuton>Raiton so in theory it should be able to deactivate Raiton shroud because of that. Also please give real evidence as to why you think Raikage would win, instead of "LOL Speedblitz"



perman07 said:


> Actually, he used it against Anko when he left a clay bunshin, and he used it against Sandaime again. He did not get chakra-exhausted at all either time.
> 
> Not to say that I believe Raikage will lose. According to Battledome rules, we can only go by shown feats. And by feats Raikage definitely takes this.



Orochimaru has techniques to which Raikage has no counter towards, Edo Tensei is one of them, Fuuton: Daitoppa could in theory deactivate Raiton shroud due to Fuuton>Raiton, the Summoning of Manda would also be a good move due to the fact that Manda is quite fast and is powerful. Yamata no Orochi is also another technique.



> But we have never seen Orochimaru go all out. Yamato no Orochi was actually pretty insane. And Sasuke would lose from poisoning if he hadn't taken over Orochimaru. And there's also the multitude of ninjutsu he hasn't shown. Do you honestly think Orochimaru only knows weak Fuutons.



Unfortunately we can't key in the unknown techniques in the BD. Yes Sasuke would've lost.



> By hype, I think Orochimaru has a real shot. It's possible he could actually beat Jiraya with unshown techniques given how he was depicted as superior. And if he was superior to Jiraya, than he definitely has a shot against Raikage. Of course, this is just speculation.



I think is quite canon that Orochimaru would have a good chance at defeating Jiraiya in battle. Though it is all IMO.


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## Watchman (Sep 23, 2009)

I have yet to hear how Raikage would get past Orochimaru's White Snake form, even _assuming_ he gets past Orochimaru's other techniques (Koroshi sums up most of my thoughts on how those techniques will fare)


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## ? (Sep 23, 2009)

i really can't see how anyone can think raikage wins. raikage is all physical, and we all see how being purely physical works against orochimaru.


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## perman07 (Sep 23, 2009)

Koroshi said:


> Orochimaru has techniques to which Raikage has no counter towards, Edo Tensei is one of them, Fuuton: Daitoppa could in theory deactivate Raiton shroud due to Fuuton>Raiton, the Summoning of Manda would also be a good move due to the fact that Manda is quite fast and is powerful. Yamata no Orochi is also another technique.


Well, with Edo Tensei, Orochimaru is probably top 3 in the manga. I personally forgot about it for a minute while writing. Without it, I don't see Yamato no Orochi, Manda or Fuuton being enough to bypass Raikage's insane speed.



Koroshi said:


> I think is quite canon that Orochimaru would have a good chance at defeating Jiraiya in battle. Though it is all IMO.


With Edo Tensei, without it just from shown feats? No, just plain no.

The main reason people overestimate Orochimaru (BD Orochimaru who is limited to shown feats, not manga Orochimaru) is his Oral Rebirth jutsu. Itachi himself stated that jutsu required tons of chakra and Sasuke showed it by being exhausted after he had used it. Orochimaru can probably only do 2 or 3 of those considering how he has the same stamina as Sasuke (according to databooks, the reason Sasuke had so little stamina left was because he had fought Itachi for a while before doing Oral Rebirth).

If Raikage faced Orochimaru + Manda and Orochimaru did Edo Tensei, Raikage could still possibly kill him a couple of times.


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## RitenLives77 (Sep 23, 2009)

Oro takes this hands down.  Raikage has powerful close range taijutsu and ninjutsu.  Oro has the full spectrum, enough to take a 4 tailed released kyubi and plant his ass on the ground.

Edo Tensei prepared with hashirama and tobirama....deadly.  Indestructable tai and ninjutsu specialists, not to mention he also has kusanagi.  

Orochimaru has also killed at least two Hokage's...so hell...what's one more?


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## Koroshi (Sep 23, 2009)

perman07 said:


> The main reason people overestimate Orochimaru (BD Orochimaru who is limited to shown feats, not manga Orochimaru) is his Oral Rebirth jutsu. Itachi himself stated that jutsu required tons of chakra and Sasuke showed it by being exhausted after he had used it.



Orochimaru's techniques alone will ensure that Raikage does not even get close. Sen'ei Ta-Jashu, Mandara no Jin, Snake Bunshin and even Edo Tensei. Raikage is not even gonna get close enough for a good shot.



> If Raikage faced Orochimaru + Manda and Orochimaru did Edo Tensei, Raikage could still possibly kill him a couple of times.



No he can't, with Manda Raikage will lose, Manda is as fast or even faster than Raikage and once Edo Tensei is out, Game over, Raikage has no techniques that can put out Edo Tensei.


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## Bart (Sep 23, 2009)

Koroshi said:


> Orochimaru's techniques alone will ensure that Raikage does not even get close. Sen'ei Ta-Jashu, Mandara no Jin, Snake Bunshin and even Edo Tensei. Raikage is not even gonna get close enough for a good shot.



Orochimaru will win.

However, as I stated before Manda and those techniques that you listed, Sen'ei Ta-Jashu, Mandara no Jin, Snake Bunshin will not be of avail, due to the Raiton Shroud and Raikage's speed.

If the Raiton Shroud was able to deflect Sasuke's Chidori Katana, which is the pinnacle of piercing offenses, effortlessly. Logically, those offenses will be useless. The Snakes making contact with the Shroud won't be a pretty sight.



Koroshi said:


> No he can't, with Manda Raikage will lose, Manda is as fast or even faster than Raikage and once Edo Tensei is out, Game over, Raikage has no techniques that can put out Edo Tensei.



Manda is faster than the Raikage? Woh.... You've taken this into a whole different threshold. Manda couldn't even evade Deidara's Kyukyoku, whereas Raikage dodged Amaterasu point-blank and Juugo's Chakra bombs.


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## Suu (Sep 23, 2009)

Bartallen2 said:


> Manda is faster than the Raikage? Woh.... You've taken this into a whole different threshold. Manda couldn't even evade Deidara's Kyukyoku, whereas Raikage dodged Amaterasu point-blank and Juugo's Chakra bombs.


Hold up. Do you honestly believe the Raikage would be able to escape the blast of Deidara's suicidal attack?

Seriously.


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## Khazzar (Sep 23, 2009)

Also,@ Barta,Oro's Kusanagi is > then Sasuke's Raiton sword.
In defense of my claim here's the link : 
*Spoiler*: __ 



Naruto.



The swords firepower is leagues above Sasuke's. It's the original Kusanagi sword after all. Sasuke could never throw a Jinchuriki that far simply with his sword.


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## Jodyjoe the great (Sep 23, 2009)

Koroshi said:


> Fuuton: Daitoppa is a technique used by Orochimaru. Even if it is weak, Fuuton>Raiton so in theory it should be able to deactivate Raiton shroud because of that. Also please give real evidence as to why you think Raikage would win, instead of "LOL Speedblitz"
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Im not even gonna try to debate if the best wind justu u have is Fuuton: Daitoppa?is it going to below has Raiton armor away? lol

And ur right its just a theory but we need facts this battledome.

Orochimaru doesn't have any justu that will harm him. 

 Edo Tensei can be stop just like how the Third hokage stopped it especially with the speed he has the raikage would have no trouble doing it.

All these justu u bring up are useless the raikage is just like a tank he will just rip throw everything one by one all his Summons are nothing if the raikage can break susanoo BONES!

The raikage can kill  Orochimaru in one hit he would be too busy reacting to the raikage incredible speed to do all thee things u suggest he would be doing.

The Raikage is just on Another LVL all together! im not saying it would be a easy fight but it is wat it is.


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## ? (Sep 23, 2009)

Jodyjoe the great said:


> Im not even gonna try to debate if the best wind justu u have is Fuuton: Daitoppa?is it going to below has Raiton armor away? lol
> 
> And ur right its just a theory but we need facts this battledome.
> 
> ...



how can he kill him in one hit when orochimaru can regenerate?


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## Jodyjoe the great (Sep 23, 2009)

Inu-Sennin said:


> how can he kill him in one hit when orochimaru can regenerate?



Thats wat im saying will be forcedto use charkra and its not regeneration ITS oral rebirth and it uses alot of charka.

and if orochimaru could just regenerate all the time he wouldnt try to avoid attacks.


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## ? (Sep 23, 2009)

Jodyjoe the great said:


> Thats wat im saying will be forcedto use charkra and its not regeneration ITS oral rebirth and it uses alot of charka.
> 
> and if orochimaru could just regenerate all the time he wouldnt try to avoid attacks.


yes but once he uses it, raikage will have to hit him again, and that wont be killing him with one hit lol.


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## Jodyjoe the great (Sep 23, 2009)

Inu-Sennin said:


> yes but once he uses it, raikage will have to hit him again, and that wont be killing him with one hit lol.



Im saying its in his power. forcing oro to use up chakra


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## Atlantic Storm (Sep 23, 2009)

Jodyjoe the great said:


> *and wat futon is that he has no Wind Realease attacks and just because of this he opposed to pierce the raikage thats great logic*
> 
> Raikgae rape-stomps oro and wins



Koroshi already posted the Fuuton. 

Raikage's attacks. Base, Raiton shroud and amped Raiton shroud aren't going to even beat Oro base form. He's much too durable. Oro, however. Can use a variety of snakes, for either offense(they can puke swords and poison) and defense. He has that Fuuton too. It may not completely disperse the shroud. But it will at least slow him down, due to the Elemental advantage. If needed, I'll go into further detail of White snake, Edo Tensei or Yamato no Orochi.


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## Jodyjoe the great (Sep 23, 2009)

Sandaime said:


> Koroshi already posted the Fuuton.
> 
> Raikage's attacks. Base, Raiton shroud and amped Raiton shroud aren't going to even beat Oro base form. He's much too durable. Oro, however. Can use a variety of snakes, for either offense(they can puke swords and poison) and defense. He has that Fuuton too. It may not completely disperse the shroud. But it will at least slow him down, due to the Elemental advantage. If needed, I'll go into further detail of White snake, Edo Tensei or Yamato no Orochi.



I have  already answered ur post 



> Im not even gonna try to debate if the best wind justu u have is Fuuton: Daitoppa?is it going to below has Raiton armor away? lol
> 
> And ur right its just a theory but we need facts this is battledome.
> 
> ...


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## Koroshi (Sep 23, 2009)

Jodyjoe the great said:


> Im not even gonna try to debate if the best wind justu u have is Fuuton: Daitoppa?is it going to below has Raiton armor away? lol
> 
> And ur right its just a theory but we need facts this battledome.



I'll give you an example straight from the manga. Deidara vs Sasuke: When Deidara threw a few C1 bombs, Sasuke could deactivate one bomb with one small senbon needle laced with Raiton Chakra. It's just a fact that Fuuton>Raiton, similiarly a C-rank Suiton can defeat an A-Rank Katon, a C-rank Katon can defeat an A-rank Fuuton, a C-rank Fuuton can defeat an A-rank Raiton, a C-rank Raiton can defeat an A-rank Doton, a C-rank Doton can defeat an A-rank Suiton, it's canon.



> Orochimaru doesn't have any justu that will harm him.
> 
> Edo Tensei can be stop just like how the Third hokage stopped it especially with the speed he has the raikage would have no trouble doing it.



Sandaime did not stop them with his speed, he only managed to defeat Edo Tensei with a *Soul-sucking technique*, a technique that grabs the soul of the corpse. 

Link removed

Regular techniques won't harm an Edo Tensei Summon. Raikage loses once Edo Tensei is out.




> All these justu u bring up are useless the raikage is just like a tank he will just rip throw everything one by one all his Summons are nothing if the raikage can break susanoo BONES!



Which mean what exactly, he won't be able to get close to Orochimaru let alone punch him into oblivion. There's Manda who Raikage would almost definitely lose against.



> The raikage can kill  Orochimaru in one hit he would be too busy reacting to the raikage incredible speed to do all thee things u suggest he would be doing.
> 
> The Raikage is just on Another LVL all together! im not saying it would be a easy fight but it is wat it is.



How many times must I tell you, White Snake Regeneration effectively means Physical attacks won't do much harm, Raikage's attacks are all physical. It also means OHKOing is out of the picture as well. Raikage just doesn't have any techniques that can put down Orochimaru. Just accept the fact.


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## Jodyjoe the great (Sep 23, 2009)

Koroshi said:


> I'll give you an example straight from the manga. Deidara vs Sasuke: When Deidara threw a few C1 bombs, Sasuke could deactivate one bomb with one small senbon needle laced with Raiton Chakra. It's just a fact that Fuuton>Raiton, similiarly a C-rank Suiton can defeat an A-Rank Katon, a C-rank Katon can defeat an A-rank Fuuton, a C-rank Fuuton can defeat an A-rank Raiton, a C-rank Raiton can defeat an A-rank Doton, a C-rank Doton can defeat an A-rank Suiton, it's canon.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Ill accept the fact that  Orochimarutards are the strongest im outta here it was a nice dabate WITH U tho.

*MY LAST POST* 



> I'll give you an example straight from the manga. Deidara vs Sasuke: When Deidara threw a few C1 bombs, Sasuke could deactivate one bomb with one small senbon needle laced with Raiton Chakra. It's just a fact that Fuuton>Raiton, similiarly a C-rank Suiton can defeat an A-Rank Katon, a C-rank Katon can defeat an A-rank Fuuton, a C-rank Fuuton can defeat an A-rank Raiton, a C-rank Raiton can defeat an A-rank Doton, a C-rank Doton can defeat an A-rank Suiton, it's canon.



Thats good u did our home work accept the Raikage can restart Raiton armor even if wat u say is possible he would just use it again its not going to stop.

So really it doesn't matter.



> Sandaime did not stop them with his speed, he only managed to defeat Edo Tensei with a Soul-sucking technique, a technique that grabs the soul of the corpse.
> 
> he was
> 
> Regular techniques won't harm an Edo Tensei Summon. Raikage loses once Edo Tensei is out.



So it cant be stopped than what did the third do here.

It loooks like it can be stopped after all.. MIND u third is not even as fast as The Raikage. but he could do it.



> Which mean what exactly, he won't be able to get close to Orochimaru let alone punch him into oblivion. There's Manda who Raikage would almost definitely lose against.



U dont no that Orochimaru is not as fast i repeat not as fast as the Raikage Orochimaru summons would not even be a object for The Raikage since u no nothing is going to stop him.

i doubt manda can hurt The Raikage if he can take the 8tails. 



> How many times must I tell you, White Snake Regeneration effectively means Physical attacks won't do much harm, Raikage's attacks are all physical. It also means OHKOing is out of the picture as well. Raikage just doesn't have any techniques that can put down Orochimaru. Just accept the fact.



 You only reply-ed to one of my post i don't no what u mean by how many times u got to tell me!

ITs true so far all the raikages attacks seems to be physical.so far the fight is still going on we don't no if he has more in store and the full extant of his capability's.

*But heres something you probably never thought about raikage Raiton armor also allows him to cut and pierce solid objects like when he cut off his hand  all he would have to do is LAND ONE HIT! u of course would say ORO can just rebirth right! WRONG! the lighting will numb him taking away his ability to move in general. this is Raiton 101,once hes paralyzed Oro is done.*

IT WAS A GREAT DEBATE!


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## Aoshi (Sep 23, 2009)

I don't know what you are talking about. Orochimaru  cannot regenerate forever. Considering that Raikage has almost unlimited chakra, I don't see him getting tired before Oro does. His regeneration takes Chakra, its not like its with no costs. Also, Edo Tensei won't have much effect if Raikage can dodge all their attacks. Also, you say Fuuton attack take away the Raiiton Shroud but do you honestly think Raikage will just stand there? You say Manda can beat Raikage? Rofl... Raikage is double the speed, and he can probably OH Manda. The reason I say Edo Tensei is not a factor is because with Raikage's speed, I don't even think he will let Oro use it. If he does, he will easily be able to discard with a seal.


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## Khazzar (Sep 23, 2009)

KnownTitanKid said:


> I don't know what you are talking about. Orochimaru  cannot regenerate forever. Considering that Raikage has almost unlimited chakra, I don't see him getting tired before Oro does. His regeneration takes Chakra, its not like its with no costs. Also, Edo Tensei won't have much effect if Raikage can dodge all their attacks. Also, you say Fuuton attack take away the Raiiton Shroud but do you honestly think Raikage will just stand there? You say Manda can beat Raikage? Rofl... Raikage is double the speed, and he can probably OH Manda. The reason I say Edo Tensei is not a factor is because with Raikage's speed, I don't even think he will let Oro use it. If he does, he will easily be able to discard with a seal.



-Orochimaru *can* regenerate as long as he's alive.
-Nobody stated Raikage will tire before Oro will.
-Oro's regen does not drain chakra,his being is the very life force,thus - his natural ability is to regen given the fact he has become White Snake
-Raikage can't dodge *all* the attacks,esspecially if 3 to 4 targets attack him constantly. Also,he was unable to dodge Sasuke's Chidori here Shinobu Gameplay,it denies your claim.
-Edo Tensei *is always* the factor,it is the most powerfull summon along with Gedo Mazo to date. Plus,there is no knowledge,meaning - there are no prepared seals,Raikage can't use them unless proven otherwise.


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## The Potential (Sep 23, 2009)

My money is on Orochimaru. He seems to be the more versatile fighter in this battle. Raikage is pretty straight forward, and you can't be straight forward with Orochimaru he will catch you off guard to fast then it's over.


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## Watchman (Sep 24, 2009)

And still nobody explains how Raikage gets past White Snake Form Orochimaru. How can someone who's only attacks are physical defeat someone *whose very blood is a powerful nerve-toxin?*, and regenerates from being cut into multiple eases with ease?

Forget Edo Tensei, forget Manda, forget Yamata no Orochi. Even _assuming_ Raikage somehow gets past _all_of them; I want to see someone answer this: How does Raikage get past White Snake Form Orochimaru?


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## Koroshi (Sep 24, 2009)

Jodyjoe the great said:


> Ill accept the fact that  Orochimarutards are the strongest im outta here it was a nice dabate WITH U tho.



Just for the record, I'm not a fan of Orochimaru.



> *MY LAST POST*
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The problem here is, can he restart in time before Orochimaru shoots out Kusanagi or manages a bite on him or even just attacks him with one of his attacks. I highly doubt so.





> So it cant be stopped than what did the third do here.here
> 
> It loooks like it can be stopped after all.. MIND u third is not even as fast as The Raikage. but he could do it.



Problem here is, Raikage has no knowledge of Edo Tensei even if he does have knowledge, will he be fast enough to destroy two coffins whilst evading what would seem lie Orochimaru's snake summons.



> U dont no that Orochimaru is not as fast i repeat not as fast as the Raikage Orochimaru summons would not even be a object for The Raikage since u no nothing is going to stop him.



Raikage is not immensely faster than Orochimaru until he can't even react to his attacks. 



> i doubt manda can hurt The Raikage if he can take the 8tails.



Problem is he didn't take the 8-tails, he only deflected Rari Atto, which is at best a more similiar but more powerful form of KN1. Manda can easily swallow him and digest him, smash him with his whole body.



> You only reply-ed to one of my post i don't no what u mean by how many times u got to tell me!
> 
> ITs true so far all the raikages attacks seems to be physical.so far the fight is still going on we don't no if he has more in store and the full extant of his capability's.
> 
> ...



Even if he manages to get close to Orochimaru, there's White Snake Orochimaru who's blood is a nerve-toxin, how do you propose Raikage can defeat him with only physical attacks. White Snake Form can also regenerate from being cut up to pieces. Even if Raikage manages to get through all of Orochimaru's attacks, Raikage simply cannot get past White Snake Form.


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## Grimmjowsensei (Sep 24, 2009)

Watchman said:


> And still nobody explains how Raikage gets past White Snake Form Orochimaru. How can someone who's only attacks are physical defeat someone *whose very blood is a powerful nerve-toxin?*, and regenerates from being cut into multiple eases with ease?
> 
> Forget Edo Tensei, forget Manda, forget Yamata no Orochi. Even _assuming_ Raikage somehow gets past _all_of them; I want to see someone answer this: How does Raikage get past White Snake Form Orochimaru?



Unless they are in a confined space, the poison vaporing from Oro's blood cannot taint the air.

Raikage is also the brawler type, he would probably break Oro's neck instead of stabbing him multiple times.


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## Watchman (Sep 24, 2009)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> Unless they are in a confined space, the poison vaporing from Oro's blood cannot taint the air.



Nonsense. Unless it's a _very_ windy day, someone standing in the proximity of a bleeding White Snake Form Orochimaru _will_ be affected.



> Raikage is also the brawler type, he would probably break Oro's neck instead of stabbing him multiple times.



We've seen from the majority of his fighting style moves that would draw blood, at the very least. And lol, just lol@breaking Orochimaru's neck.


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## Dariustwinblade (Sep 24, 2009)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> Unless they are in a confined space, the poison vaporing from Oro's blood cannot taint the air.
> 
> Raikage is also the brawler type,* he would probably break Oro's neck instead of stabbing him multiple times.*









LOL at breaking orochimaru's neck.There ya go, the moment Raikage descides to grab oro's neck. Oro wraps his neck around raikage and Kusanagi's him from the mouth.


LoL at the thought of breaking oro's neck , dude you forgot who *Oroch*imaru! is I can't believe I used to have some good debates with you.


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## Grimmjowsensei (Sep 24, 2009)

Watchman said:


> Nonsense. Unless it's a _very_ windy day, someone standing in the proximity of a bleeding White Snake Form Orochimaru _will_ be affected.



So tainting the air of a small room and tainting the air of a bigger room or open air is the same thing huh? I didn't know that.




> We've seen from the majority of his fighting style moves that would draw blood, at the very least. And lol, just lol@breaking Orochimaru's neck.



His wrestling moves wouldn't draw much blood. And breaking its neck is a good way to kill a snake.



Dariustwinblade said:


> LOL at breaking orochimaru's neck.There ya go, the moment Raikage descides to grab oro's neck. Oro wraps his neck around raikage and Kusanagi's him from the mouth.




Sure because he can do that while he is held by someone much stronger than him right ? 




> LoL at the thought of breaking oro's neck , dude you forgot who *Oroch*imaru! is I can't believe I used to have some good debates with you.


Is Orochimaru's neck immune to breaking ? I didn't know that.

and I don't remember having any good debates with you dawg


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## Dariustwinblade (Sep 24, 2009)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> His wrestling moves wouldn't draw much blood. And breaking its neck is a good way to kill a snake.




The guys neck is flexible as hell. You can't, break someones neck if he dosen't posses necks bones to begin with.

 Gamakichi 



> Sure because he can do that while he is held by someone much stronger than him right ?



Because sankes don't use strength, the slithery bastard can increase the size of his neck and wrap him around then Kusanagi his head off.




> Is Orochimaru's neck immune to breaking ? I didn't know that.



Yes, incase you didn't noticed he can extend his neck to great legths and flex in 360 degrees, he dosen't posses any bones in his neck. 

Gamakichi
Gamakichi



> and I don't remember having any good debates with you dawg



Not good for you, I am talking about myself. You always lost when you face me.


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## shadow5050 (Sep 24, 2009)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> So tainting the air of a small room and tainting the air of a bigger room or open air is the same thing huh? I didn't know that.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Are you saying Orochimaru can be killed by breaking his neck ? I'm sorry this is ridicules. He got cut into halves and stabbed by a large sword then laughed after it.

On topic. Without a sealing ninjutsu or a jutsu that can destroy every cell of his body killing Orochimaru is impossible.


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## Koroshi (Sep 24, 2009)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> So tainting the air of a small room and tainting the air of a bigger room or open air is the same thing huh? I didn't know that.



The molecules of the poison will be dipersed into the air of course but since Raikage is a CQC fighter, being too close to Orochimaru effectively means the probability of the poison affecting him is higher.



> His wrestling moves wouldn't draw much blood. And breaking its neck is a good way to kill a snake.



Unless you haven't read properly, Orochimaru has been shown to have a flexible neck and can stretch it very far, theoretically breaking a person whose neck can stretch very far and is flexible won't do much harm.




> Sure because he can do that while he is held by someone much stronger than him right ?



No a normal person can't, but Orochimaru who can stretch his body can simply just stretch his body and wrap it around Raikage's body if he were to get through Manda, Edo Tensei and other snake summons.



> Is Orochimaru's neck immune to breaking ? I didn't know that.



Yes it is, he can stretch it in many different ways without breaking it and has regenerated from being cut into pieces.


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## Nikushimi (Sep 25, 2009)

Assuming that the Edo Tensei zombies won't die even if Orochimaru does, they can probably beat Raikage by a War of Attrition.

But other than that, it takes a total of .5 seconds for Raikage to beat Orochimaru's corpse past the point that his regenerative powers can repair.


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## Dariustwinblade (Sep 26, 2009)

Oro's futon > Raikage's Rikiton



The moment Raikage  tries to come close to Oro, Oro will just blow his Rikiton Shroud away, Making him an easy target. Without the Rikiton shroud he is nothing.


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## Nikushimi (Sep 26, 2009)

Dariustwinblade said:


> Oro's futon > Raikage's Rikiton
> 
> 
> 
> The moment Raikage  tries to come close to Oro, Oro will just blow his Rikiton Shroud away, Making him an easy target. Without the Rikiton shroud he is nothing.



Orochimaru's _one_ Fuuton technique is only B-Rank, and nothing says that Raikage can't just put his Raiton armor back up, or that it will even get blown off in the first place.


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## Dariustwinblade (Sep 26, 2009)

Nikushimi said:


> Orochimaru's _one_ Fuuton technique is only B-Rank, and nothing says that Raikage can't just put his Raiton armor back up, or that it will even get blown off in the first place.



Why not Futon > Rikiton by just that pokemon logic Oro can cripple Raikage forom his only offensive ninjutsu. Remember Deidera vs Sasuke, that logic came out of nowhere.


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## Harry Balzac (Sep 26, 2009)

Orochimaru is a legendary ninja lol. His powers are ALMOST unparalleled. Reikage is not stupid to believe he can win

BELIEVE IN THE HYPE.


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## Koroshi (Sep 26, 2009)

Harry Balzac said:


> Orochimaru is a legendary ninja lol. His powers are ALMOST unparalleled. Reikage is not stupid to believe he can win
> 
> BELIEVE IN THE HYPE.



No they aren't, there are a few people that can't beat him only due to his White Snake Form. If he didn't had that I doubt he'd more powerful than most people. Hype is also not to be taken seriously. The only reason Raikage loses is the fact that he doesn't have any techniques that can really put down Orochimaru.


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## Harry Balzac (Sep 26, 2009)

Well I could say if reikage didn't have his super speed and power i doubt he'd be better than anybody. Or if itachi didn't have his sharingan he wouldn't beat orochimaru. The white snake is what made orochimaru immortal to physical attacks. Each character has their own special unique ability and its what makes them good


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## Atlantic Storm (Sep 26, 2009)

The White snake isn't what makes Oro so durable. It's the experiments he's done on himself.


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## Ryuzaki (Sep 27, 2009)

Orochimaru wins with very little difficulty and then overtakes Raikage's body as his own. Raikage is purely an offensive fighter and Orochimaru is probably the best defensive opponents within the manga. It would take a great deal for them to take out a healthy Orochimaru, not only that but with Edo Tensei and utilizing the 1st and 2nd, it's pretty much a wrap for Raikage.


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## Mr00 (Sep 27, 2009)

Im gonna have to give this to Orochimaru. Raikage's fighting style revolves around his intense physical strength + electricity. Orochimaru was able to take multiple hits from Tsunade, whos fighting style also revolves around her intense physical strength and still live. I highly doubt that a little lightning boost on top of his strength will do much. The best raikage could do is slice off his limbs or head with his lightning, but this can be quickly undone with oral rebirth and orochimaru has shown to be able to "put himself together" literally. 

Next matter of buisness: edo tensei. Someone summoned by edo tensei cannot be killed, the only way shown to kill a edo tensei'd being is Shiki Fujin or another soul removal jutsu.  Raikage could destory the coffins before he fully summons them, however with no knowledge this is highly unlikely.

Next, Yamata no Jutsu...a 8 headed snake...overkill....nuff said.

Orochimaru wins with mid difficulty.


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## KidQuick (Sep 28, 2009)

Oro. Too much regen+jutsu hax


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## Sasukethe7thHokage (Oct 12, 2009)

Oro would take this victory cause full powered jiryja and full powered Oro are close in terms of powe i think oro is stronger but thats my option anyway if Jirjia could go face to face with pein so could oro at full strength raikage would lose to much ninjutsu 4 him if ria had a sharigan however then things would be different


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