# Resident Evil universe VS Metal Gear Solid universe



## Birkin (Nov 18, 2006)

Lame topic? Maybe, but worth a try =)
Everything here is allowed, except the bandana/stealth camo.

It's from all games so far, heroes and zombies from RE cooperate along every enemy we've seen in the games. The army of zombies are maximum 400. And they have a total of last bosses equal to what you see in the games (for example only one transformed william birkin) 

MGS has Snake + all the other heroes (even those who died like Grey Fox) and has a general army of around 200 genome soldiers and other soldiers seen through the MGS games. About the Metal Gears, only 1 Rex, approx 20 small rays and 1 of the tank in the 3rd game.

Weapons allowed: Handguns, assault rifles/machine guns, rocket launcher, grenades, knife.

If I missed something let me know.

Is it a lame topic? 

gogo fight!




EDIT: 

Locations: 

Any city like Raccoon city, just bigger. But mostly the same.
Urban and narrow.

Open field, nothing in the way at all, can basically see every foe except the ones underground.

Stupid ideas? Please tell me =)

As for the zombie bugs; NO, 1 bug is NOT counted as 1/400, by itself, the bugs should have a cap of 100, which totals out 100/500 for the RE side. Might as well increase the Genome soldiers to 300 and 40 small Rays.

Flame me all you want =)


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## Keollyn (Nov 18, 2006)

I'll actually say that this is a hard choice. I was about to say RE for all it's freakish monsters that do freakish things, but then I remember that Metal Gear has Raiden and Gray Fox... badassery on so many levels..

Can't decide yet.


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## Purgatory (Nov 18, 2006)

Keollyn said:


> I'll actually say that this is a hard choice. I was about to say RE for all it's freakish monsters that do freakish things, but then I remember that Metal Gear has *Raiden* and Gray Fox... badassery on so many levels..
> 
> Can't decide yet.



I hope you're kidding about Raiden...he's about as useful as a schoolgirl, which isn't saying much. But if you're including MGS2 and 3, it's pure overkill, since there's Metal Gear RAY, REX, Big Boss (Solidus), The Boss with all of her allies (Except maybe...The Sorrow?).


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## Id (Nov 18, 2006)

Neji Kun said:


> I hope you're kidding about Raiden...he's about as useful as a schoolgirl, .


After watching MGS 4 trailer.........I consider him badass. My respects for Future Raiden.


As for the topic. Good match, I can not decide who would win......


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## Birkin (Nov 18, 2006)

Forgot about the boss' allies, the sorrow will be kept out, but remember Neji, Resident Evil side has for example Nemesis with the rocket launcher + the rocket launcher in general


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## Birkin (Nov 18, 2006)

So shooting down the Metal Gears is way possible.


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## Keollyn (Nov 18, 2006)

Neji Kun said:


> I hope you're kidding about Raiden...he's about as useful as a schoolgirl, which isn't saying much. But if you're including MGS2 and 3, it's pure overkill, since there's Metal Gear RAY, REX, Big Boss (Solidus), The Boss with all of her allies (Except maybe...The Sorrow?).



I'm perfectly serious when I mentioned Raiden.


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## Birkin (Nov 18, 2006)

Keollyn said:


> I'm perfectly serious when I mentioned Raiden.



I just have to ask, I actually did like Raiden before as he served his roll throughout MGS 2. But are you including the MGS4 Raiden? That you've seen in the trailers?


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## Sengoku (Nov 18, 2006)

i hope this is a joke topic because this is an overkill.

Exactly, how are the RE guys going to survive? They fight dumb zombies for god sakes.

Metal Gear? They fight super soldiers capable of killing most of the RE people...

But, wait, there is more! Metal Gear has what? REX? RAYS? Shagohod? Aresnal Metal Gear? 

Metal Gear prototypes are capable of launching nukes.. I dont think nemesis would survive that. :\

And if he did manage to beat one of the Rexes.. Good luck beating Liquid Snake seeing as to how he never dies.

Don't get me started on Cyborg Ninja too :/


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## Art of Run (Nov 18, 2006)

Snake also hides under BOXES! That is omnipotence.


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## Birkin (Nov 18, 2006)

nukes should be out of the question, and I actually did say a limit of the Metal Gears, as for the zombies, RE 4 is included as well


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## Purgatory (Nov 18, 2006)

It would also be a problem for REverse to try to get through Psycho Mantis and Sniper Wolf, and especially Vulcan Raven. I'd like to see the REverse take on The Fury though


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## Purgatory (Nov 18, 2006)

Keollyn said:


> I'm perfectly serious when I mentioned Raiden.



We don't know if New Raiden is really that kick ass. We must use Raiden from MGS2 because we know pretty much next to nothing about his skills and if he's more experienced. But I know who can be a major victory...Ocelot Revolver (A.K.A. Liquid Snake) and Solidus Snake together!


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## Sengoku (Nov 18, 2006)

Again, i fail to see how this is a good match up even if you limit the #s of metal gears.

Shagohod is made to be a solo vehicle capable of being a 1 "man" army.
It is made to completely withstand TANK shells, artillery, etc.

Exactly how is a rocket launcher shell is going to damage Shagohod's hide is beyond me.

Nemesis was beaten by a person who isnt genetically modified in anyway.

I dont see how Nemesis, Tyrant, etc. are going to beat any of these machines who can make an entire continent cringe in fear. Much less, Solid Snake, Liquid Snake, Solidus Snake, The Cobras, Foxhound, etc.

The Boss owns everyone. Patriot gun ftw.


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## Id (Nov 18, 2006)

I don’t know some of RE characters who  ware fused with the T Virus gaining super human abilities that seem to be on par or surpass Grey Fox.


Wester (I think thats his name. Comes to mind)


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## ZergKage (Nov 18, 2006)

Absolute beating. Though some people in the REverse last a long time, they also see their fair share of uber monsters

I'd take out the gears imo.


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## Zack_Strife (Nov 18, 2006)

Wesker.
This is pure overkill btw. Send in the Ray unit's first and they'll just move people down. The RE characters just aren't good enough to take down that many Ray units. It would just be total murder, some of the super monsters might make it and some humans but that's it.  
Then the genome army goes in to mop up, then the real ass kickers advance with the Rex and Shagohod to finish the job if need be.


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## Art of Run (Nov 18, 2006)

ZergKage said:


> Absolute beating. Though some people in the REverse last from a long time, they also see their fair share of uber monsters
> 
> I'd take out the gears imo.



Nice sig and ava Zerg.


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## gabha (Nov 18, 2006)

I agree with the people who said the MGS universe would win, the gears present a major problem for the RE universe.


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## Nexas (Nov 18, 2006)

Give Leon enough ammo and his knife and he'll take em' all out on his own.


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## ZergKage (Nov 18, 2006)

Zack_Strife said:
			
		

> Wesker.
> This is pure overkill btw. Send in the Ray unit's first and they'll just move people down. The RE characters just aren't good enough to take down that many Ray units. It would just be total murder, some of the super monsters might make it and some humans but that's it.
> Then the genome army goes in to mop up, then the real ass kickers advance with the Rex and Shagohod to finish the job if need be.



I agree, the gears seriously make it waaaaaay one sided.



			
				Lord Recluse said:
			
		

> Nice sig and ava Zerg.



Thanks. As always if you want one i can make you one. I have most fight scenes from FF7 Dirge of Cerebrus(sp?)/ Xenosaga/ 2 corny ones from Chrono trigger( enough for a frog one or maybe Magus ) or if you can give me the avi's i'll make something, hell a Lord Recluse one would look sweet.


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## Butō Rengoob (Nov 18, 2006)

Metal gear universe owns....


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## Birkin (Nov 18, 2006)

Let's say we took away the MG's, what's the outcome? =)


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## Butō Rengoob (Nov 18, 2006)

They still win....


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## Nexas (Nov 18, 2006)

ikazuchi ookami said:


> They still win....



You know an argument to back that claim up would be fine.


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## Keollyn (Nov 18, 2006)

Damn, the monsters that appeared in RE are getting extremely underestimated.


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## Butō Rengoob (Nov 18, 2006)

Nexas said:


> You know an argument to back that claim up would be fine.


Ok, the idiots from RE are just a bunch of stupid police men, and government agents. Meanwhile, MG series people are highly trained, highly deadly soldiers. You think any one from RE could take on Raiden?


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## Nexas (Nov 18, 2006)

Keollyn said:


> Damn, the monsters that appeared in RE are getting extremely underestimated.



I know. People seem to forget that the REverse has an army of zombies. Once the infection starts to spread, the MGSverse will have alot of trouble taking on them *And * the non-zombies such as Leon, Wesker, etc.


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## Purgatory (Nov 18, 2006)

Nexas said:


> I know. People seem to forget that the REverse has an army of zombies. Once the infection starts to spread, the MGSverse will have alot of trouble taking on them *And * the non-zombies such as Leon, Wesker, etc.



You seem to be under-estimating a few of the MG characters as well. The Fury has the flamethrower to distract/harm the zombies and he has a jetpack on so they'll never be able to come in contact with him. The End could just hide in a shady spot and start aiming once he wakes up (Not sure if he'd wake up for just gun down a few people though), The Boss (AKA Joy) Has CQC which she was able to own a certain young someone with before the final fight, Revolver is an excellent shot and could also blow out the zombie's brains out (Just assuming they can die that way since I never played the RE games), The Pain can help The Boss wound/kill the characters (Especially with his bee gun or whatever it was called) and Mr. Lightning-Rod over there can use those bullets with his electricity to help whoever needs the assistance. Adding more characters such as Solidus, Vamp, Fatman, Fortune, etc. would just be plain overkill by almost an infinite amount.


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## Nexas (Nov 18, 2006)

Neji Kun said:


> You seem to be under-estimating a few of the MG characters as well. The Fury has the flamethrower to distract/harm the zombies and he has a jetpack on so they'll never be able to come in contact with him. The End could just hide in a shady spot and start aiming once he wakes up (Not sure if he'd wake up for just gun down a few people though), The Boss (AKA Joy) Has CQC which she was able to own a certain young someone with before the final fight, Revolver is an excellent shot and could also blow out the zombie's brains out (Just assuming they can die that way since I never played the RE games), The Pain can help The Boss wound/kill the characters (Especially with his bee gun or whatever it was called) and Mr. Lightning-Rod over there can use those bullets with his electricity to help whoever needs the assistance. Adding more characters such as Solidus, Vamp, Fatman, Fortune, etc. would just be plain overkill by almost an infinite amount.



You've never played an RE game and you say I'm underestimating people. As the zombies kill more and more their ranks will grow. The MGS people will be outnumbered in no time. Not mention that zombies aren't the only creatures that make up their ranks. I suggest you go to wikipedia and see all the creatures that the REverse has and then try to debate. And as I said, they still have to deal with the humans as well. Give Wesker a little prep and have the MGS gang trapped in an unbeatable situation in no time.


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## Orion (Nov 18, 2006)

grey fox vulcan raven and revolver ocelot could kill about 80% of the re guys by themselves,thats not mentioning raiden the boss rest of foxhound,deadcell ect.and about the zombies overwhelming them...are you kidding me  a single genome soldier with an assault rifle could take atleast 25 zombies a piece easily.the vampire dude from deadcell in mgs2 with his knife alone can solo the entire zombie army.


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## Nexas (Nov 18, 2006)

vlaaad12345 said:


> grey fox vulcan raven and revolver ocelot could kill about 80% of the re guys by themselves,thats not mentioning raiden the boss rest of foxhound,deadcell ect.



So your going to tell me that they can take down about a million+ zombies and other creatures and not run out of bullets or being overwhelmed.


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## Orion (Nov 18, 2006)

did u read the first post?the limit of zombies is 400....


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## Nexas (Nov 18, 2006)

vlaaad12345 said:


> did u read the first post?the limit of zombies is 400....



Okay do you think that they could kill for 400+ (genome soilders added) without running out of ammo or being overwhelmed?


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## Orion (Nov 18, 2006)

^^yes actually there are alot of mgs guys who dont use guns,vamp from deadcell has superhuman speed reflexes strength ect and uses knives could tear apart most of the zombies,grey fox could do the same.and it only takes one headshot to kill a zombie all of them are excellent shots.


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## Nexas (Nov 18, 2006)

Wow the thread-starter completely forgot about las plagus


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## King Bookah (Nov 18, 2006)

Wesker vs Vamp would be a hell of a fight if u ask me.


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## Orion (Nov 18, 2006)

^^yea he did a unjobbed krauser would be preety sick.wesker would destroy vamp imo,that guy is a beast,and seems to get stronger and stronger over the years.


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## omg laser pew pew! (Nov 18, 2006)

I'm going to say RE only because it has Jill Valentine

No other reason


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## Purgatory (Nov 18, 2006)

Nexas said:


> Okay do you think that they could kill for 400+ (genome soilders added) without running out of ammo or being overwhelmed?



I don't think Deadcell would have a problem with 400+ zombies. Fatman could just plant some C4 around before the zombies could try to bite him. If they do, he still has that one gun (can't remember the name) to keep them down for a few more seconds/minutes.

Next you have Vamp, which, we've been told that he's a master of knives. He also has quite the speed and won't let his prey escape.

Finally, you have Fortune AKA Lady Luck. This one's sorta obvious as she has that shield that can protecxt her from anything (I'm referring to the one near the end when Revolver fires all of the armaments of RAY at her, and she pulled a miracle out of her ass, not the magnetic shield thing. But if they do try to get ahold of her, Vamp won't let them touch her. Plus, she has the rail gun to blow some of 'em back a bit.


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## B.M.F. (Nov 18, 2006)

Which R.E. are we talkin' about here? Cause any zombie before RE 4 would get owned, *but*.....
 Zombie Commandos with rocket-launchers>>>>>>>>>>>>>Any Metal gear.


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## Sengoku (Nov 18, 2006)

Do you honestly think that zombies pose a greater threat than actual human beings? lol.

Pit your self against a city of zombies vs a city of terrorists

lets see which one IS easier. :|


anyway, send in fortune and she will kill everyone in RE. There is NOOOOO way in hell anyone can harm Fortune. She is cursed to not die in war. 

you people always seem to forget that metal gears have nukes.
1 nuke = instant win.


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## Amatsu (Nov 18, 2006)

Well heck in practically every Resident Evil game it was possible to gain infinite ammo rocket launchers. Even with Snake's infinite ammo bandana he can't stand up to rocket launchers.


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## Sengoku (Nov 18, 2006)

maybe he cant. but RE sure cant survive a nuke.


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## Id (Nov 18, 2006)

SengokuGensui said:


> maybe he cant. but RE sure cant survive a nuke.



Listen?now that I think about it, if MGS does not come prepared to handle viral infection, all humans will become infected by the T - Virus, G - Virus.
And the genome soldiers are a joke. Sure they can take out the basic zombies but I doubt even they are capable of handling B.O.W.

And besides the zombies
You are also talking about 
Nemesis
Hunters
Tyrant
Licker
Eliminator
Lisa Trevor
William Birkin G-mutant
Bandersnatch
Nosferatu
Nyx
Dr. Cameron



I don?t know, when you say RE, I picture all the creatures, zombies and the threat it comes with in fighting them off. Not just the mindless Zombies walking around.


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## The Wanderer (Nov 18, 2006)

OK guys

First we must wait until we play RE5. Then we can comment about this battle.

Because I mean, zombies who run like someone who's about to crap his/her pants are something XD


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## Sengoku (Nov 18, 2006)

yeah and when I think of MGS i think of fighting the countries such as Russia, China, and USA...
:|

sure, we can wait for re5
but i can also say we can wait for mgs4

which clearly shows gigantic anime robots fighting.

good luck, zombies. good luck infecting robots :|


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## Id (Nov 18, 2006)

SengokuGensui said:


> yeah and when I think of MGS i think of fighting the countries such as Russia, China, and USA...
> :|
> 
> sure, we can wait for re5
> ...



As far as I know, Rex along with other Metal Gears are piloted by humans. 
And seeing how the cast of MG can not even find proper protection for Fox - Die?.how can they combat a viral infection that has no known cure????

Oh Licker/Hunters>>Genom Soldiers.


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## Orion (Nov 18, 2006)

^^and the mgs bosses own  every bow weapon.


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## Lord Yu (Nov 18, 2006)

lol Grey Fox >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Zombies. Plus Metal Gear blows the shit out of everything.


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## Id (Nov 18, 2006)

Joy - Human
Big Boss - Human
Liquid - Human

None of the end bosses can overcome the infection of the G/T Virus.


Hell, Liquid died from a synthetic virus using nano-technology.


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## Orion (Nov 18, 2006)

^^omg...whats makes u think they will actually get hit,the virus isnt airborne u have to get infected from bits cuts ect,none of the bows have the speed or reflexes to touch the mgs bosses.


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## Sengoku (Nov 19, 2006)

lol you really THINK that deadcell, foxhound, foxhound, cobra, etc. will not be inform that if a zombie bites you, you will get infected?
you think that these organization will no have prep time?

lol these people arent stupid.. :/

solid snake has a iq of 185+ (dont remember the exact number, but correct me if im wrong)

hell, the governments dont even have to deploy them to take down RE.
Send in the metal gears and launch several nukes and its bye bye.

There is no one here that can counter nukes. You are just wasting your time if you keep arguing =)

and ID, so what if they are piloted by humans? They can send nukes over to wherever destination in the world. Safe from harm. AND as if zombies can claw their way inside the cockpit...


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## Id (Nov 19, 2006)

vlaaad12345 said:


> ^^omg...whats makes u think they will actually get hit,the virus isnt airborne u have to get infected from bits cuts ect,none of the bows have the speed or reflexes to touch the mgs bosses.



Yes I do think they have the reflexes.

Big boss was nothing more then a mere human. And their was nothing special about Raiden as well.
Even so both ware able to take down, Dead Cell, or Cobra.


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## Orion (Nov 19, 2006)

actually no they werent regular humans,both have above average reflexes and combat abilities far above any of the re guys who beat the bows.


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## Vegitto-kun (Nov 19, 2006)

I love how the MGS fans main arguement is "lol metal gears nuke them"

resident evil also had a nuke in it lol they nuke the mgs people


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## Sengoku (Nov 19, 2006)

Wikipedia/Psycho Mantis: ". He wondered if his father would kill him, and the shock of this revelation awoke his subconscious, and inadvertently caused the deaths of everyone in the village (approx. 1,000 people). This release of psychic energy caused severe burns across his body, particularly his face."
^^^ that takes care of all the human heroes.

and until i see someone counter my nukes, mgs wins.


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## Sengoku (Nov 19, 2006)

yeah and i love how RE fanatics think they can just nuke mgs when metal gears are made to counter nukes as well. :|
gg.

anymore?


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## Id (Nov 19, 2006)

SengokuGensui said:


> lol you really THINK that deadcell, foxhound, foxhound, cobra, etc. will not be inform that if a zombie bites you, you will get infected?
> you think that these organization will no have prep time?


First of all who said anything about prep time. 2 even with prep time, a simple be stung is enough before it leads to an out break. One of the key points (or plot) RE haves is that the T/G Virus has an uncontrollable outbreak.



SengokuGensui said:


> solid snake has a iq of 185+ (dont remember the exact number, but correct me if im wrong)



Good for him he will need it.



SengokuGensui said:


> hell, the governments dont even have to deploy them to take down RE.
> Send in the metal gears and launch several nukes and its bye bye.
> 
> There is no one here that can counter nukes. You are just wasting your time if you keep arguing =)



Um….did you even bother to read the rules.
Nukes - Banned.



SengokuGensui said:


> and ID, so what if they are piloted by humans? They can send nukes over to wherever destination in the world. Safe from harm. AND as if zombies can claw their way inside the cockpit...


Um… Nukes - Banned. And I do remember those Metal Gears being taken out by Stingers.





vlaaad12345 said:


> actually no they werent regular humans,both have above average reflexes and combat abilities far above any of the re guys who beat the bows.


By your above  average =/= superhuman abilities like the ones shown by some Fox hound or Dead Cell.



SengokuGensui said:


> Wikipedia/Psycho Mantis: ". He wondered if his father would kill him, and the shock of this revelation awoke his subconscious, and inadvertently caused the deaths of everyone in the village (approx. 1,000 people). This release of psychic energy caused severe burns across his body, particularly his face."
> ^^^ that takes care of all the human heroes.
> 
> and until i see someone counter my nukes, mgs wins.



If I am not mistaken, in Code Vernica they had a powerful that could wield Phyrokensis. 
It was more then a handle for Wesker. (Whos abilities have bin augmented past Solid Snakes level of physic)


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## Sengoku (Nov 19, 2006)

and shagohod? which can run over zombies?

20 metal gear rays? which can outright stomp all over nemesis and other "OOO special" zombies?

1 rex? which killed cyborg ninja who killed all off the super genome soldiers?

zombies cannot claw through metal. keep dreaming.


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## Id (Nov 19, 2006)

SengokuGensui said:


> and shagohod? which can run over zombies?
> 
> 20 metal gear rays? which can outright stomp all over nemesis and other "OOO special" zombies?
> 
> ...



Like I said earlier, the Gears ware taken down using stingers.

Nemesis comes equipped with a bazooka.

You also have the final form of G-Virus mutation. Anything less then a nuke would be needed to take it down. 

To bad nukes ware banned.


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## Sengoku (Nov 19, 2006)

Basing this off of video game-wise

not a wise decision. If that is the case, cyborg ninja can decapitate nemesis, his arms, and legs. Scatter the body parts and blow them up with Solid Snake's own rocket launcher.

Wesker? no problem, send in Fortune.

Yeah too bad rocket launchers have limited ammo. :|
good luck nemesis. Metal Gear rex's own rail gun would be suffient enough to kill off Nemesis.


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## Id (Nov 19, 2006)

SengokuGensui said:


> Basing this off of video game-wise
> 
> not a wise decision. If that is the case, cyborg ninja can decapitate nemesis, his arms, and legs. Scatter the body parts and blow them up with Solid Snake's own rocket launcher..



I counter Cyborg with Wesker.




SengokuGensui said:


> Wesker? no problem, send in Fortune...



I counter Fortune with Morpheous. Bye bye Fortune.






SengokuGensui said:


> Yeah too bad rocket launchers have limited ammo. :|
> good luck nemesis. Metal Gear rex's own rail gun would be suffient enough to kill off Nemesis..


When you have an army of Nemesis with augmented capabilities?It dosnt seem to unrealistic to beat a Rex.

Also you have G Virus final mutation to worry about.


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## Sengoku (Nov 19, 2006)

When a mere human being can defeat the villains

a Genetic modified soldier would do alot better.

gg.


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## Purgatory (Nov 19, 2006)

Id said:


> I counter Fortune with Morpheous. Bye bye Fortune.



I seriously doubt he could counter/break something that's unbreakable. Whenever bullets are fired at her, the "shield" protects her and the bullets veer into another direction. When a grenade from one of the guns was shot at her, the "shield" made it ineffective. Hell, when Liquid fired the shitloads of missiles and nukes at her, that very same shield made all of the said arsenal bounce off of it and into the water. What makes you think her "shield" can be broken?


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## Id (Nov 19, 2006)

SengokuGensui said:


> When a mere human being can defeat the villains
> 
> a Genetic modified soldier would do alot better.
> 
> gg.



If I remember correctly, Liquad admitted that the Genome (and the soldiers) ware a failure. And from playing the game, they didn?t seem enhanced in any way.

You Genome Soldiers vs. an Army of Nemesis, Mr. X and Commandos.


And if I remember correctly the intentions for use of the T/G Virus was to genetically enchnce their soldiers. Hence Nemesis, Mr. X and Tyrant and Wesker.


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## Sengoku (Nov 19, 2006)

foxdie ftw.

i counter your mere wesker with the shagohod and 1 rex.

i counter your nemesis with 10 rays.

i counter your morpheous with 10 rays.


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## Sengoku (Nov 19, 2006)

you know why they didnt appear to be super soldiers?
its because you were playing as snake :| 

and i remembered nemesis being beaten easily by mere modernized weapons.

mgs has weapons such as the railguns k.


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## Id (Nov 19, 2006)

Neji Kun said:


> I seriously doubt he could counter/break something that's unbreakable. Whenever bullets are fired at her, the "shield" protects her and the bullets veer into another direction. When a grenade from one of the guns was shot at her, the "shield" made it ineffective. Hell, when Liquid fired the shitloads of missiles and nukes at her, that very same shield made all of the said arsenal bounce off of it and into the water. What makes you think her "shield" can be broken?




Dude do you even know who Morpheous is....the irony is that Fortune would be facing of some one with the same abilities as her only deadlier.


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## Sengoku (Nov 19, 2006)

^ wrong. fortune is better.


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## Id (Nov 19, 2006)

SengokuGensui said:


> ^ wrong. fortune is better.



Based on what??


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## Purgatory (Nov 19, 2006)

Id said:


> Dude do you even know who Morpheous is....the irony is that Fortune would be facing of some one with the same abilities as her only deadlier.



How is he deadly to her? She's *NEVER* been harmed, let alone killed in battle before, so I see them maybe as equals.


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## Sengoku (Nov 19, 2006)

her abilities.

oh and i almost forgot.
mgs can create 3494394394 snake clones.

trump card'd.


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## Id (Nov 19, 2006)

SengokuGensui said:


> her abilities.
> 
> oh and i almost forgot.
> mgs can create 3494394394 snake clones.
> ...



Oh wow, RE can augment the capabilities of their Soldiers to equal Weskers.



Neji Kun said:


> How is he deadly to her? She's *NEVER* been harmed, let alone killed in battle before, so I see them maybe as equals.



Because all though they both have fields that protect them against harm. Morpheus could always just walk up to her and giver her a serious h2h beat down infecting her in the process.


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## Sengoku (Nov 19, 2006)

yet the heroes werent genetically modifed
your argument fails.


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## Id (Nov 19, 2006)

SengokuGensui said:


> yet the heroes werent genetically modifed
> your argument fails.



And clones of big boss ware a failure except for Liquid (partially), Snake, and Solidus.

On top you are using a probability to reinforce that MG could (possibly) make SS clones; although the game has yet to show such feat/event.

So much for your argument.

Yeah, you sound some what of a hypocrite right about know.


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## Sengoku (Nov 19, 2006)

hypocrite? when zombies bite you you dont turn into a zombie yourself btw.
therefore, its safe to go and attack zombies CQC style baby.

so much for zombies. except they are alot retarded than normal soldiers.
gg.

and what? failures ? do you exactly know what happened to the other clones besides solid liquid and solidus?

someones not doing their homework :|


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## Id (Nov 19, 2006)

SengokuGensui said:


> hypocrite? when zombies bite you you dont turn into a zombie yourself btw.
> therefore, its safe to go and attack zombies CQC style baby.
> 
> so much for zombies. except they are alot retarded than normal soldiers.
> gg.



What are you talking about, the viral infection was spread because of biteing (among other ways), there is no cure for this infection. So how could that be countered?



SengokuGensui said:


> SengokuGensui said:
> 
> 
> > hypocrite? when zombies bite you you dont
> ...


----------



## Sesshoumaru (Nov 19, 2006)

While technologically advanced the MSG universe is, they are not equipped to deal with a wide-spread zombie outbreak. They have the weaponry, but they do not have the scientific knowledge required without exposing themselves to the T or G Virus.


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## Orion (Nov 19, 2006)

all those bows went down to regular humans i dont really see how they stand a chance against vamp,grey fox,psycho mantis,revolver ocelot ect ect ect,not to mention all the giant ass mechas that can just step on them.


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## Sengoku (Nov 19, 2006)

and your little nemesis using his rockets to kill off a metal gears
especially aresnal gear is beyond belief. nice try.

several blasts from the metal gears is going to kill off hundreds upon hundreds of nemesis.

clones or not, it only helps the mgs world. And assuming that the whole world cooperates, dna coding and cloning of snakes will increase greatly; no more having to do this secretly.
except, in the mgs world, you already have super villains who dont have boss's/snake DNA to kick ass.

Vamp can be shot in the head and survive, able to climb up walls, and run through water.
^^ perfect example.


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## Sengoku (Nov 19, 2006)

yeah, just mass produce the robots and just stomp all over the zombies lol. only thing they have to worry about is fuel.

after that is done, let the super soldiers and villains take care of "deeper threats".


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## King Bookah (Nov 19, 2006)

Leon is a match for Ocelot.  Wesker is a match for Vamp.  Krauser is a match for Grey Fox (maybe).  I'm saying these are pretty even matchups.  The physhics and the Metal Gears however will be a serious problem tho.


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## Orion (Nov 19, 2006)

leon is a match for ocelot..........lmfao no just no dude u realize ocelet can do things that are borderline supernatural with his guns right.leon tries to hide behind a wall ocelot richochetes it about 3 times and hits leon square in the face.


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## Sengoku (Nov 19, 2006)

^^ that is true.

and good that hes seeing it that way because that takes care of their "elite" soldiers :|

now.. metal gears time.


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## King Bookah (Nov 19, 2006)

I realise what Ocelot can do, I've played and beaten all the games.  But I also know what Leon is capable of.  I never said Leon could beat Ocelot, I said he is a match.  You are underestimating Leon's abilities.


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## Sengoku (Nov 19, 2006)

I think the Fear would be a better match up for Krauser. or Vulcan Raven maybe.


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## Keollyn (Nov 19, 2006)

Id said:


> Yes I do think they have the reflexes.
> 
> Big boss was nothing more then a mere human. *And their was nothing special about Raiden as well.*
> Even so both ware able to take down, Dead Cell, or Cobra.



WLF!? This is a joke, right?


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## Id (Nov 19, 2006)

SengokuGensui said:


> and your little nemesis using his rockets to kill off a metal gears
> especially aresnal gear is beyond belief. nice try.
> 
> several blasts from the metal gears is going to kill off hundreds upon hundreds of nemesis.
> ...



First off there are other weapons that can by pass Metal Gears defenses quiet easily. 
Charge Particle Rifle
Panzer Faust EX
Containment Linear Launcher

And no I don’t find it hard to believe Nemsis are incapable of taking them down. (after all Raiden was capable why not a Super Zombie).

Assuming that the world cooperates???? Dude you just dismissed with my own counter of Wesker like Super Soldiers. That’s the reason why I called you a Hypocrite.

But I bet, Vamp cant do a single thing to T-Veronic or Morpheous. And I’m sure that reducing Vamp to ashes would keep him permanently dead.






SengokuGensui said:


> yeah, just mass produce the robots and just stomp all over the zombies lol. only thing they have to worry about is fuel.
> 
> after that is done, let the super soldiers and villains take care of "deeper threats".




Assumeing that, they had the capabilities to mass produce themselves.

Here is a better one, let the T/G Virus evolve to their final form and mass produce themselves. I assure you this will take much less time then mass producing the Gears.




Keollyn said:


> WLF!? This is a joke, right?



Dude, your not going to tell me that Raiden was bad ass and an enhanced  super soldier as well in MGS 2?


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## Sengoku (Nov 19, 2006)

Technology overwhelms numbers. Remember that well.

Tis why the USA has the strongest military in the world. Not as abundant than the Chinese, but superior nonetheless.

I have yet to see any flying robot probes (in RE) that are capable of carrying highly advanced weaponary in their arsenal.

MGS is more advanced.


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## Id (Nov 19, 2006)

SengokuGensui said:


> Technology overwhelms numbers. Remember that well.
> 
> Tis why the USA has the strongest military in the world. Not as abundant than the Chinese, but superior nonetheless.
> 
> ...



RE overwhelms MGS simply because, it does not have the capabilities to fend off an outbreak. Despite their overwhelming technology.

But in the battle of enhanced soldiers vs. Mutated/Enhanced,  Soldiers/Creatures. there are plenty that can take up Dead Cell, Fox Hound, and Cobra.

MGS simply can not overcome  a viral outbreak.


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## Sengoku (Nov 19, 2006)

riiight and you think RE has the capabilities to take on metal gears and other robots/cyborgs?


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## Orion (Nov 19, 2006)

no re bow zombie ect has ever shown strength capable of taking out a gear.


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## Sengoku (Nov 19, 2006)

if he thinks nemesis can take on a metal gear

then that means zombies will not be able to affect them even if they bite.

get it?


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## Amatsu (Nov 19, 2006)

SengokuGensui said:


> Wikipedia/Psycho Mantis: ". He wondered if his father would kill him, and the shock of this revelation awoke his subconscious, and inadvertently caused the deaths of everyone in the village (approx. 1,000 people). This release of psychic energy caused severe burns across his body, particularly his face."
> ^^^ that takes care of all the human heroes.
> 
> and until i see someone counter my nukes, mgs wins.



How does it? I don't remember Psycho Mantis ripping Snake's skin off.

Plus let's face it infinite ammo rocket launchers >>>>> Metal Gears

Heck Metal Gears are easily taken out by friggin' stinger missiles. The only difference is that RE characters don't have to be in first person mode to kick some major Metal Gear ass.


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## Birkin (Nov 19, 2006)

A lot of good arguements, and this thread really is progressing fast 
But as someone earlier said that I didn't include the Las Plaguas, I think I mentioned in my first post that "Every MGS and RE game counts" or something similar, this includes all the side-stories as well I.E Dead Aim etc etc.. Yet I haven't heard anything about the Las Plaguas. But what's really agonizing me here is that people seem to underestimate the RE side (well some of you are) but there aren't ONLY zombies. Hunters, lickers etc is in as well. Other than that, good arguementation, I personally won't state my side here, but I see certain victory within Id's arguements.


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## subsistence (Nov 19, 2006)

> Plus let's face it infinite ammo rocket launchers >>>>> Metal Gears



MGS has infinite ammos aswell



> But in the battle of enhanced soldiers vs. Mutated/Enhanced, Soldiers/Creatures. there are plenty that can take up Dead Cell, Fox Hound, and Cobra.



400 Units from RE ( Bosses Included )and 200 Units from MGS ( Bosses Included )

erhm... Ordinary Humans had fend off zombies and tyrant... whats holding the supersoldiers from MGS from slaughtering them from afar?

MGS units arent low ranking officers... we have generals etc..

for all i know they can BOMB ( Rocket Bombardment/ Airborne Attacks ) the place and then kill everything thats left.

Military tactics i presume ?

MGS have military geniuses, megalomaniacs, weirdos.

I'm pretty sure theyd act as a unified force and play the safest way to react to what RE's gonna throw at them.

i could be wrong tho.


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## Darklyre (Nov 19, 2006)

Why the fuck are people saying Nemesis can kill a Metal Gear? Nemesis isn't smart enough to do anything beyond point at movement and shoot. A Metal Gear is like a crab, you've gotta hit the weakpoint for massive damage. Nemesis won't know to hit the weak spot. And then you've got to include people like Alice, who can do psychic spying, and Chaigidiel, who can literally possess someone's body outright (not that weird mess that is Liquid Ocelot). The Metal Gear Chaioth Ha Qadesh actually has an AI, and no longer needs a pilot. The AI can mimic human nature, meaning it's smart enough to actually outthink you.


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## Sengoku (Nov 19, 2006)

^^ I totally agree on this one.
I was going to mention that after ID said something but looks like he went to bed.

Nemesis will never beat Metal Gear REX if he doesnt know the weak spot.
As far as I can tell, even solid snake himself didnt know the weak spot until he was given the info.

sorry, metal gears win and a massive curbstomp.

To think MGS people will be unprepared against horde of zombies is retarded.
Or at least, "not used to it"
AS IF they will let themselves sit there and let the zombies come and bite them
which isnt going to happen, sorry.

Ok, lets just say they didnt know what would happen. Theres a squad of genome soldiers, they fight off the zombies, but, one of the soldiers gets bitten. That soldier becomes a zombie, guess what happens next? The team informs the others that their comrade became one of them (hostile) through nanocommunications.  damn that was easy.


----------



## Sengoku (Nov 19, 2006)

Oh, and if you want to look at it at a technical perspective.

SWAT clearly does not own one of the best military factions ever.

Foxhound is considered a higher level than the Army's Delta Force.

Military > city's forces.


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## Ludwig The Holy Blade (Nov 19, 2006)

Mgs absoluely DESTROYS the RE universe, no fucking question. Metal Gear REX could take down all the freakin zombies by itself, then foxhound, the cobras, All the Snakes,all the ninjas,would decimate the rest of the RE characters,  without the help of the Metal Gears. Putting the RE universe against the metal gears would be overkill, as there are many hundreds of metal gear units.(mass produced rays and gekko's)

Just my opinion guys don't playa h8.


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## Id (Nov 19, 2006)

RE outbreak is not limited to humans. Just about all life forms can become infected.
If MGS is level’s ahead in technological break thru yes. But despite all this, they do not have any way to contain the outbreak. RE is steps ahead in Biological Warfare.

And why wouldn’t Nemesis be capable of taking out the Rex? Stinger missiles ware used to put it down. RE has them. On top of that,  the Original poster states I can use all incarnations of RE. Last time I checked, nemesis un aided auto locking abilities. After all Rex is a gigantic bipedal tank. Its not a vary agile Mecha.


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## Ludwig The Holy Blade (Nov 19, 2006)

Fair enough but then you've got the mass produced Rays and Gekko's to worry about, who are ai controlled(mostly) and extremely agile. I mean they can run jump etc.


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## Id (Nov 19, 2006)

Seand said:


> Fair enough but then you've got the mass produced Rays and Gekko's to worry about, who are ai controlled(mostly) and extremely agile. I mean they can run jump etc.



We have yet to see what the Gekos are capable of. But I assure you that the Gekos can be put down quite easily using a Charge Particle Rifle or Containment Linear Launcher. In fact I think these weapons can take out Rays and Rex more efficiently then the stinger missiles.


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## Ludwig The Holy Blade (Nov 19, 2006)

Well when they release MGRE in the near future we are sure to find out


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## Vegitto-kun (Nov 19, 2006)

About the gears killing all

equip all the re characters with rocket launchers and linear launchers and all the other crazy super weapons they have

I do think a fucking plasma beam would kill a gear


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## Darklyre (Nov 19, 2006)

Vegitto-kun said:


> About the gears killing all
> 
> equip all the re characters with rocket launchers and linear launchers and all the other crazy super weapons they have
> 
> I do think a fucking plasma beam would kill a gear



What, so a supposedly rare weapon is now being allowed for all the RE characters?

Then in that case, I want all the MGS characters to have Fortune's railgun/Ninja's HF sword.


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## Id (Nov 19, 2006)

Seand said:


> Well when they release MGRE in the near future we are sure to find out



I know, I really looking forward for MGS4!!!

I don’t thing I have anything more to defend. ( I sound Like a broken record, repeating myself).

Um, my purpose was not to show RE>>MGS. Just that RE is a formidable Universe for MGS to handle.

Also I wanted to point out an obvious disadvantage that MGS has over RE.



Vegitto-kun said:


> About the gears killing all
> 
> equip all the re characters with rocket launchers and linear launchers and all the other crazy super weapons they have
> 
> I do think a fucking plasma beam would kill a gear



If you are referring to the Charge Particle Rifle…..well its not exactly a simple laser beam weapon.

*Charge Particle Rifle*
It is based on a particle acceleration device, which virus researchers use for gene manipulation and decomposing molecules. By hitting accelerated particles, it induces physical destruction on the molecular level. The weapon can penetrate barriers of electric discharge and give damage to the target.
*
Containment Linear Launcher*
Designed by Umbrella Corp. for Biohazard Containment. It is very powerful, more than capable of destroying anything. It has Hi-Impact, heat Treated Hydrogen plasma which is very deadly, and highly volatile. It is basically a “one-shot-one-kill-deal”.


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## Sengoku (Nov 19, 2006)

I'm confident that the metal gears are strong enough to withstand these kinds of weapons.

The Shagohod was used to be an army killer.

Fastfoward to presentday. Metal Gears are now even stronger, more advanced, highly mobile, etc. than the Shagohod. 

BTW, nemesis can easily be killed off because meat isnt stronger than metal.

therefore, metal gears would be harder to kill off.

and no, just because nemesis has the capabilities to lock on DOESNT mean he would know where to shoot :|.


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## Sengoku (Nov 19, 2006)

and 400 seems ridiculously SMALL compared to an actual STRONG military.

also, 99.9 of the zombies dont even carry guns. Let the Metal Gears stomp all over them and it would just be Metal Gears + other organizations vs. "stronger" zombies.


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## Id (Nov 19, 2006)

SengokuGensui said:


> I'm confident that the metal gears are strong enough to withstand these kinds of weapons.
> 
> The Shagohod was used to be an army killer.
> 
> ...



It doesn?t take an IQ of 185 to determine; Shoot the cockpit to kill the pilot.


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## Darklyre (Nov 19, 2006)

Except that the cockpit is nigh-invulnerable.


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## Sengoku (Nov 19, 2006)

lol, obviously you didnt play mgs1 did you.

just stop now, its already common that you do not have any knowledge about the mgs world what_so_ever.


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## Id (Nov 19, 2006)

SengokuGensui said:


> and 400 seems ridiculously SMALL compared to an actual STRONG military.
> 
> also, 99.9 of the zombies dont even carry guns. Let the Metal Gears stomp all over them and it would just be Metal Gears + other organizations vs. "stronger" zombies.



No?.the thread starter stated I could use up to 400 cap limit of characters. Who told you I would be using strictly Zombies.???



Darklyre said:


> Except that the cockpit is nigh-invulnerable.



Sure?they are. Im sure a direct hit from a Charge Particle Rifle will not do a singe thing to Metal Gear or the pilot.


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## Vegitto-kun (Nov 19, 2006)

SengokuGensui said:


> I'm confident that the metal gears are strong enough to withstand these kinds of weapons.
> 
> The Shagohod was used to be an army killer.
> 
> ...



So a super weapon like this

Containment Linear Launcher
Designed by Umbrella Corp. for Biohazard Containment. It is very powerful, more than capable of destroying anything. It has Hi-Impact, heat Treated Hydrogen plasma which is very deadly, and highly volatile. It is basically a ?one-shot-one-kill-deal?.

cant destroy a metal gear while a stupid rocket launcher can?  


And if I remember right the shagahod got quite owned by snake by rockets no? so why wouldn't that weapon do anything and you know that colonel dude with the electric power

Charge Particle Rifle
It is based on a particle acceleration device, which virus researchers use for gene manipulation and decomposing molecules. By hitting accelerated particles, it induces physical destruction on the molecular level. The weapon can penetrate barriers of electric discharge and give damage to the target.

that weapon could kill him


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## Sengoku (Nov 19, 2006)

oh? then I guess all the 200 genome soldiers will be perfect clones of the Big Boss then.
Meaning  many numbers of snakes soldiers.


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## Sengoku (Nov 19, 2006)

uh... do you actually know what happened to the actual fullbody of the shagohod? or are you just spitting out bs?


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## Id (Nov 19, 2006)

SengokuGensui said:


> lol, obviously you didnt play mgs1 did you.
> 
> just stop now, its already common that you do not have any knowledge about the mgs world what_so_ever.



Actually I have. MGS 1 is one of my fav games for the PS1. 

Um…MGS 2 was a bit of a disappointment. But I like the remake of MGS 1 for the Gamecube.

And MGS 3 was refreshing, and a bit more involved then the past 2 MGS’s.



SengokuGensui said:


> oh? then I guess all the 200 genome soldiers will be perfect clones of the Big Boss then.
> Meaning  many numbers of snakes soldiers.



Ok your 200 Genomes vs. my army of 400 consisting of Nemesis, Morpheus, G- Virus (I don’t think he has a name),  T-Veronica, and Wesker like Soldiers.

Good Luck.


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## Vegitto-kun (Nov 19, 2006)

SengokuGensui said:


> uh... do you actually know what happened to the actual fullbody of the shagohod? or are you just spitting out bs?



I actually forgot didn't snake just rocket the weels of the thing to break it down then colonel dude used his electricity to power it up again


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## Sengoku (Nov 19, 2006)

^^ if you were referring to that time of event, he was fighting 1/5 of the body of shagohod. so, no, that wasnt the full shagohod.


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## Vegitto-kun (Nov 19, 2006)

SengokuGensui said:


> ^^ if you were referring to that time of event, he was fighting 1/5 of the body of shagohod. so, no, that wasnt the full shagohod.



Well only thing I can really say is that unlike snake the BOW's could jump on the thing and attack the cockpit or something

but im sure that a plasma cannon would break it down after some shots


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## Sengoku (Nov 19, 2006)

they never addressed the the weak points of the fully capable shagohod, because it was too powerful and it was like a behemoth.

the metal gear on the other hand, attacking the cockpit will do you no good.
metal gear rex was never destroyed, as you can tell. it was only "shut down", and it wasnt from attacking the cockpit too. 


btw, Metal Gear Ray has this capability. 
"It also has a nervous-system-like system of conductive nanotubes, which connect the widely dispersed sensor systems and relay commands from the cockpit to the various parts of RAY's body, automatically bypassing damaged systems and rerouting to auxiliary systems when needed. Another feature is its blood-like armor-repair nanopaste, which is secreted from valves and coagulates wherever the exterior surface is damaged. Particularly unusual is its "face", with two "eyes" and a gaping "mouth", only seen when the head armor is removed."


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## Vegitto-kun (Nov 19, 2006)

SengokuGensui said:


> they never addressed the the weak points of the fully capable shagohod, because it was too powerful and it was like a behemoth.
> 
> the metal gear on the other hand, attacking the cockpit will do you no good.
> metal gear rex was never destroyed, as you can tell. it was only "shut down", and it wasnt from attacking the cockpit too.
> ...



yes the shagahod might be too powerfull 

but rex wasn't destroyed? I mean it got hit alot of times then tipped over and the explosion caused snake to fly against a wall and pass out  

and plasma cannon > rockets anyway

both rex's and ray's cockpits would just be a gaping hole


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## Sengoku (Nov 19, 2006)

Nope, you didnt see any parts missing on the Rex, it was just physically shut down from the inside.

Also, both the REX and RAY have lazer guns capable of slicing through just about anything.

As you can see, cyborg ninja's suit is really durable and powerful when rex stepped on him, however, as time passes by, liquid finally asserted more strength to crush cyborg ninja completely.
The lazer on the other hand, sliced Cyborg Ninja's arm off quite easily. Almost like tearing a piece of paper.


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## Vegitto-kun (Nov 19, 2006)

SengokuGensui said:


> Nope, you didnt see any parts missing on the Rex, it was just physically shut down from the inside.
> 
> Also, both the REX and RAY have lazer guns capable of slicing through just about anything.
> 
> ...



Well snake didn't aim at anything else then its head and radar

well yeah ofcourse a laser would kill anybody

but it doesn't really have a really long range, though I think ray's was abit longer but his was slower since it was from his head no?


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## Gunshin (Nov 19, 2006)

Why MGS would lose...

1. Infection
- Crows, bats, ants, bees, parasite, flying bugs, mega bite, spiders, etc.. can all infect the Genome soldiers and any humanoid boss character. Once infected by the unknown disease, they will spread it to their comrades (who will try to help them in good nature) while those tiny creatures continue to infect the bio portion of the MGS army from land, sea, and air. 
- Poisons not associated with T/G virus will also spread amongst the human population of team MGS. They have no antidotes for the airborn poisons of Nosferatu. They have no antidotes from the air born posions of Evil Shades. They have no antidotes for the spiders and several other creatures who's posions can kill you in minutes.

2. Resistance, regeneration, and assimilation
- Many in the RE army are resistant to most weapons. For example, to kill Leechman, you must disintegrate every last piece of him with flames over 212º F. G-virus creatures can take rocket launcher shots with ease.
- Shot guns, Machine guns, Rocket Launchers, etc.. won't mean crap when Leechmen, Tyrants, G-virus, G-virus infected Tyrants, Nemesis, etc.. just regenerate afterwards.
- Armed zombie down. -1 for RE team. MG boss or Genome down. -1 for MG team +1 for RE team. Considering RE already has the advantage in numbers, this is a great disadvantage for MG team.

3. Attacks from all directions.
- Zombies, Dogs, Liquors, Elephants, Lions, Hunters, Leechmen, Superhumans, Nemesis, Tyrants, G-virus Birkin, etc.. can attack by land. 
- Bees, Crows, Bats, Flying Bugs, Horn Bill, Giant Moths, etc.. attack by air.
- Neptune, Nautilus, Glimmer, Lurker, Albanoid, Alligator, Yawn, etc.. attack by water. 
- Sliding Worm, Grave Digger, Gulp Worms, and Adder attack underneath the earth

4. Fear and paranoia
- Once infection spreads fear and paranoia will also spread amonsgt the MGS ranks. Hell, actually, the MGS team would be spooked at the very sight of the RE team. A gigantic swarm of bees, crows, zombies w/weapons, superhumans w/weapons, etc.. will spook them from the start. Shooting them with their m16s etc.. and seeing it have no effect will also spread the fear and paranoia. On the otherhand, the undead army will march forward unphased.

MG's only hope is Metal Gears, but sadly, those gears can be taken down easily by RE's supersoldiers and Nemesis.


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## Id (Nov 19, 2006)

Dude you finally voice out (type) your opinion. (I saw you lurking fro while).

Oh what’s up with this. - 





> Location: in jail for shooting pr0n without a location permit



lol


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## Sengoku (Nov 19, 2006)

sorry, the pain controls the bees.

leechers? no problem, the fury has that covered.

zombie infections? no problem, send in the geckkos. and other robots.

spooked out? yeah and im pretty sure when they see gigantic robots, they would save their last bullets for themselves.


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## Vegitto-kun (Nov 19, 2006)

SengokuGensui said:


> sorry, the pain controls the bees.
> 
> leechers? no problem, the fury has that covered.
> 
> ...



Pain controlls HIS bees undead bees wont be controlled by him

fury your correct

zombie infection, what point is sending in robots when the humans are undead, then they would only have to worry about the robots

I personally find a large rotten monster with a massive rocket launcher scarier then rex and ray

shagahod I would indeed go "fuck it"


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## Sengoku (Nov 19, 2006)

Because robots arent prone to being infected in any way.


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## ZergKage (Nov 19, 2006)

Oh come on people. Its not like Zombies coordinate there attacks and slaughter people with firearms in any game their in. This is ridiculous. Even Octogon in a stealth suit and a pistol would be slaughtering Zombies left and right.


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## King Bookah (Nov 19, 2006)

No Las Plagas love?


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## Gunshin (Nov 19, 2006)

SengokuGensui said:


> sorry, the pain controls the bees.


The Pain who can control "hornets", can now control undead bees controlled by the T virus? Um.. no. 



> leechers? no problem, the fury has that covered.


Sorry to dissapoint you, but flame throwers don't kill leechers. They must be contained and burned in a small room with heat over 212? F. Basicaly they must be cooked in a contained area like a turkey in an oven. Furthermore, you think this is a one-on-one bout? While the Fury is trying to cook the leechmen, he'll be getting shot at by superhumans and zombies. Bee swarms, crows, etc.. will be attacking him in the air. The Grave Diggers will be waiting for The Fury to be within swallowing range. 



> zombie infections? no problem, send in the geckkos. and other robots.


Gekkos? As in the MG that doesn't exist yet? The robots will be dealt with by the humans, superhumans, and nemesis', El Gigante, etc.. of RE Team. Come on... "Jack the Ripper" can take out 3 gears at the same time with a stinger. Supersoldiers like Krauser and Wesker are multiple times faster than Snake and Jack with superhuman reflexes, senses, etc.. 



> spooked out? yeah and im pretty sure when they see gigantic robots, they would save their last bullets for themselves.


Tanks? Something fathomable? First off, the Nemesis creatures and armed zombies wouldn't give a darn. Second, a vast majority of RE army is undead. Third, superhumans like Krauser and Wesker would not be afraid of tanks. The only creatures that would be slightly scared is the humans, however, once they see one fall, they will gain confidence. On the otherhand, when you see your friends turning into zombies and dropping dead from airborn chemical weapons, how can you overcome that? Its not something you can fight against.


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## Gunshin (Nov 19, 2006)

ZergKage said:


> Oh come on people. Its not like Zombies coordinate there attacks and slaughter people with firearms in any game their in. This is ridiculous. Even Octogon in a stealth suit and a pistol would be slaughtering Zombies left and right.


Octogon in a stealth suit would become infected by the air born viruses produced by Night Shades, Nosferatu, and many other creatures. The Grave Diggers and Gulp-worms will know where Ocelot is.

Actually, the Zombies do coordinate their attacks in RE4 and slaughter people with firearms and many other weapons.



Id said:


> Dude you finally voice out (type) your opinion. (I saw you lurking fro while).
> 
> Oh what’s up with this. -
> 
> lol


Had to prepare the attack! lol. The guy (Chocoball Mukai) in my avatar is an ex-pro wrester and current porn star who went to prison for shooting porn without a location permit.


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## Sengoku (Nov 19, 2006)

Yeah, i'm pretty sure they will be afraid of metal gears :| Arsenal Gear ftw.
krauser was defeated by a human being. tough luck. krauser is a pussy.
liquid snake would stomp krauser like he was nothing.
zombies would be easy picking for sniper wolf and the end as well. hooray for support units 

Do you realize how hot The Fury's gun is? lol.

I can picture 400 zombies come rushing in blindly.
Vulcan Raven: I'll handle this...
*vulcan mows down all the zombies*

not to mention, vulcan and snake can survive a rocket full blast. oh wait, all the super villains can. :|


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## Sengoku (Nov 19, 2006)

Actually this is how i see it,
The MGS team goes to racoon city or whatever, they lure out the zombies and whatnot, then they retreat back to their ships waiting at the water.

gg, instant water barrier. Shoot them from afar!


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## King Bookah (Nov 19, 2006)

If I can recall correctly, Dead Cell, Fox Hound, and The Cobra unit were all beaten by humans as well.  So Krauser being beaten by a mere human doesn't really hold gound.


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## Gunshin (Nov 19, 2006)

SengokuGensui said:


> Yeah, i'm pretty sure they will be afraid of metal gears :| Arsenal Gear ftw.


No they wouldn't. Its a fathomable concept. Once a Metal Gear falls, the fear will too. 



> krauser was defeated by a human being. tough luck. krauser is a pussy.liquid snake would stomp krauser like he was nothing.


Sure... because Liquid would beat him in a fist fight? lol. Krausers battle performance feats > Liquid Snake.



> zombies would be easy picking for sniper wolf and the end as well. hooray for support units


Sniper Wolf? You mean Zombie Sniper Wolf who gets infected by the air born posions and viruses?



> Do you realize how hot The Fury's gun is? lol.


Why don't you tell me how hot his gun is. I've played the game myself. Tell me exactly how strong Mr.I'mAngryCauseIWentToSpace!!111's flame thrower is.



> I can picture 400 zombies come rushing in blindly.
> Vulcan Raven: I'll handle this...
> *vulcan mows down all the zombies*


Sadly, Zombie Vulcan Raven will by part of team RE next to this guy...





> not to mention, vulcan and snake can survive a rocket full blast. oh wait, all the super villains can. :|


Game mechanics? The sign of someone losing a battle. Okay then, lets play like that. Jill from Resident Evil can survive Thanos attacks with power and space gem. Furthermore, she's stronger than Thanos and can speed blitz him. Jill > Thanos w/IG > Shuma Gorath > Metal Gear > Genome Soldiers.


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## ZergKage (Nov 19, 2006)

Gunshin said:
			
		

> Octogon in a stealth suit would become infected by the air born viruses produced by Night Shades, Nosferatu, and many other creatures. The Grave Diggers and Gulp-worms will know where Ocelot is.
> 
> Actually, the Zombies do coordinate their attacks in RE4 and slaughter people with firearms and many other weapons.



Come on Gunshin. You know Las plagas are in RE4 and they are not considered zombies. Dont try and pass that off as something zombies can do. 

As far as airborne virus' from Nosferatu/Shades you basically have to be right next to her/them for that to even take affect. Are you saying enhanced soldiers with superior firepower and technology are going to be fighting HtH when they can simple lay traps/explosives/ambush Zombies(and a few humans) that will not be coordinating?


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## Sengoku (Nov 19, 2006)

losing the battle? no. never.
If you really want to base this off of real life situation, then be my guest.

With that many bullets he can carry around his body, it will not be enough.

Vulcan, who carries a HUGE load of bullets on his back will be better.


If you want to base this off of real life, Gunshin, then how are they going to aquire all those rocket launcher shells? they dont just magically reappear lol.
tough luck beating metal gears, seeing how they can just fly up in the air and just rain down missile barrages on them. 

about krauser vs liquid snake, lets not forget. liquid snake's father was big boss :| who in turn invented CQC along with The Boss.

and who did krauser lose to again? a normal human being.
Thus, Liquid Snake > Krauser. OH and yeah, liquid snake isnt dead. Therefore, liquid snake is alot tougher than krauser.

and who said sniper wolf would be infected if she is in the air sniping?

yeah i can probably tell you how HOT fury's weapon is. and it's definitely hotter than your pathetic 212 F.
    * Oxyacetylene Flame (3000 C or above)(5432 F)
    * Oxyhydrogen Flame (2000 C or above)(3632 F)
    * Bunsen Burner Flame (Max. Setting) (1300 - 1600 C)(2372 - 2912 F)
    * Candle Flame (760 C)(1400 F)
    * Blowtorch (1300 C)(2372 F)


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## Gunshin (Nov 19, 2006)

SengokuGensui said:


> With that many bullets he can carry around his body, it will not be enough.
> 
> Vulcan, who carries a HUGE load of bullets on his back will be better.


Vulvan can be infected easily. One little crow is all it takes. 



> If you want to base this off of real life, Gunshin, then how are they going to aquire all those rocket launcher shells? they dont just magically reappear lol.


The same way you reload your Rocket Launcher in RE. 



> tough luck beating metal gears, seeing how they can just fly up in the air and just rain down missile barrages on them.


Those tiny patterned missiles? 



> about krauser vs liquid snake, lets not forget. liquid snake's father was big boss :| who in turn invented CQC along with The Boss.


I don't care how good your MA is... (even if it consist of three moves)... Krausers' strength and military training will overpower Liquid h2h.  And Liquid is neither of those names you mentioned despite sharing the DNA of Big Boss. 



> and who did krauser lose to again? a normal human being.


A normal human being doesn't make you any less dangerous. Revolver Ocelot, Sniper Wolf, etc.. are all normal human beings. Its a retarded argument.



> Thus, Liquid Snake > Krauser. OH and yeah, liquid snake isnt dead. Therefore, liquid snake is alot tougher than krauser.


Fallacy if i've ever seen it. Since a human beat Krauser... Liquid > Krauser. lol. Good argument. 



> and who said sniper wolf would be infected if she is in the air sniping?


So Sniper Wolf gets a hellicopter or something now? 



> yeah i can probably tell you how HOT fury's weapon is. and it's definitely hotter than your pathetic 212 F.
> * Oxyacetylene Flame (3000 C or above)(5432 F)
> * Oxyhydrogen Flame (2000 C or above)(3632 F)
> * Bunsen Burner Flame (Max. Setting) (1300 - 1600 C)(2372 - 2912 F)
> ...


You're forgeting the entire oven concept. Flame throwers cannot kill leechmen. He must be contained in a special temperture room and cooked until nothing. And "probably" doesn't cut it. I don't see any evidence that the Fury's capable of killing leechmen w/his flame thrower. Why would The Fury's flame thrower be capable of destroying what RE's flame throwers, rocket launchers, etc.. can't? 



> Come on Gunshin. You know Las plagas are in RE4 and they are not considered zombies. Dont try and pass that off as something zombies can do.


I always considered them zombies. If we want to be technical, sure, I guess i'll refer to them as Las Plagas.


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## Orion (Nov 19, 2006)

how the hell is the mgs elites gunna get infected by crows or zombies dude they arent gunna just sit there.


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## ZergKage (Nov 19, 2006)

Either way, Las Plagas are not coordinated either. Unless you consider seeing a human, then swarming him tactics


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## Gunshin (Nov 19, 2006)

vlaaad12345 said:


> how the hell is the mgs elites gunna get infected by crows or zombies dude they arent gunna just sit there.


Regarding Vulcan? he doesn't know what he's up against. Infected Ravens or Crows can catch him. He's not exactle speedy gonzales. Zombies, when killed, can have parasites jump out of them Alien style. 

I say the real question is how MG Elite cannot get infected. With the virus floating around the air and water supply... infected ants, spiders, rats, crows, bees, etc.. swarming around. Just one nick is all it takes. One sting, one peck, one nibble, one scratch... your infected.


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## Sengoku (Nov 19, 2006)

uh. power >>> technique??? no. where have you been?
maybe if krauser was one of the guys who won and end WWII, then maybe i will consider him good. :|
From your avatar, I wouldve assumed that you have some knowledge about MMA. Look at Fedor. He is the best.

why do you keep saying that they dont know what they are up against?
are we being a little hypocritcal here?
same thing can be said to RE guys who dont know wtf they are up against, especially when you know its robots that are highly mobile and capable of killing everything in its path.


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## Gunshin (Nov 19, 2006)

ZergKage said:


> Either way, Las Plagas are not coordinated either. Unless you consider seeing a human, then swarming him tactics


Remember the Las Plagas taking cover in the house waiting to ambush with dynamite? Las Plagas have showed some coordination in their attacks. They can be coordinated by the one controlling them.


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## Gunshin (Nov 19, 2006)

SengokuGensui said:


> uh. power >>> technique??? no. where have you been?
> maybe if krauser was one of the guys who won and end WWII, then maybe i will consider him good. :|
> From your avatar, I wouldve assumed that you have some knowledge about MMA. Look at Fedor. He is the best.


If Fedor fought someone with Krauser's strength, he'd be killed. Same thing with Liquid. Look at Rampage vs Arona. Arona was owning Rampage all around and what did Rampage do once Arona used technique to slap on a triangle? He used power to pick him up and KO him. Thats human example. Superhuman example. You think Daredevil can beat Juggs h2h? Come on... 



> why do you keep saying that they dont know what they are up against?same thing can be said to RE guys who dont know wtf they are up against,


Not really, because the unknown factor is in RE's side because:

1. Los Plagas, Grave Diggers, Nemesis, etc.. don't need to know what they're up against. Theres nothing MG Rex or 30 Rays can do to surprise them, spook them, etc..  
2. Thinking portions can see and comprehend what they're facing. They see a Rex shoot lasers and missiles killing a bunch of Las Plagas... okay. Now they can annalyze and view the patterns and arsenal of Rex and make a plan of attack. On the other hand, when Liquid just keels over and dies by an unknown poison, while Ocelot suddenly bites Raiden... its not something you can just make a plan to fight against. With so many things like that happening, the MG Elite and Genome soldiers will start thinking: "Whats going on?! How do you get infected?! Am I infected?! Is the guy next to me infected?! Is it okay to eat my rations?!" The unknown factor effects MG team much worse than the RE team.



> same thing can be said to RE guys who dont know wtf they are up against, especially when you know its robots that are highly mobile and capable of killing everything in its path.


Yeah, Nemesis will be like: "WTF?!" Seriously, like I said earlier, they can see the Rex and 30 Rays and form a plan of action. They can see and analyze the Rex and Rays fighting Las Plagas and the thinkers come up with a plan once they see a Nemesis blow one up with a rocket launcher.


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## Orion (Nov 19, 2006)

form a plan...iv played quite a few  resident evils and never seen something able to form complex attack plans.


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## Amatsu (Nov 19, 2006)

subsistence said:


> MGS has infinite ammos aswell



Except as I said earlier. Snake's infinite ammo headband isn't going to save him from getting his ass blown apart by a bunch of the human characters using infinite ammo rocket launchers on him.


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## Gunshin (Nov 19, 2006)

vlaaad12345 said:


> form a plan...iv played quite a few  resident evils and never seen something able to form complex attack plans.


I never suggested the Los Plagas, Nemesis form a plan. I'm talking about the thinking population of RE who can control Los Plagas, Nemesis, etc..


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## Vegitto-kun (Nov 19, 2006)

About the liquid > krauser fight, I sure would love to see liquid try to survive a huge mutate arm/sword while krauser is not a human and can take shotgun shells to the head and get shot with dozens of weapons and not die. Krauser > liquid in hand to hand and ranged too, krauser is way faster then pretty much every MGS character.

And all I ever see from the MGS side is "lol metal gears will own them lol"forgetting the fact that resident evil also has rocket launchers and even way more advanced arsenal.


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## Orion (Nov 19, 2006)

the krauser vs liquid fight is so stupid omg im a mgs fanboy but even i can recognize krauser was jobbed to hell for leon,him without pis would destroy liquid with his superhuman speed and relfexes not to mention his arm that pwns everything in sight.


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## omg laser pew pew! (Nov 19, 2006)

I really think the particle cannon (the one from RE3 that killed Nemesis) > MG is a moot point

I mean it took forever to power up and even then we had to lure Nemesis in front of it. I'll like to see that hit something that doesn't have teh IQ of a doorknob


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## Sengoku (Nov 19, 2006)

gunshin, care to explain what happened to randleman and coleman against fedor?


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## Gunshin (Nov 19, 2006)

SengokuGensui said:


> gunshin, care to explain what happened to randleman and coleman against fedor?


Randleman, human, capable of cutting down to LHW. Fedor is physicaly stronger than him. He lost to Fedor because Fedor is heavier, stronger, better striker, and more versatile on the ground. Coleman, a human past 40yrs old. He's one-dimensional wrestler with zero sub defense. Whats your point? I can bring up more cases in real life where the big man beat the little man. It has nothing to do with superhuman regenerator with super strength, speed, and reflexes > DNA clone of Big Boss who theoreticaly is good in h2h.


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## Id (Nov 19, 2006)

Last of the Retards said:


> I really think the particle cannon (the one from RE3 that killed Nemesis) > MG is a moot point
> 
> I mean it took forever to power up and even then we had to lure Nemesis in front of it. I'll like to see that hit something that doesn't have teh IQ of a doorknob



The particle rifle that I speak of comes from the game.
Resident Evil: Dead Aim


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## Sengoku (Nov 19, 2006)

wrong, technique is the reason why fedor won.

randleman is too 1 dimensional. so is coleman.

that is why hammerhouse isnt doing really well lately.


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## ZergKage (Nov 19, 2006)

Vegitto-kun said:
			
		

> About the liquid > krauser fight, I sure would love to see liquid try to survive a huge mutate arm/sword while krauser is not a human and can take shotgun shells to the head and get shot with dozens of weapons and not die. Krauser > liquid in hand to hand and ranged too, krauser is way faster then pretty much every MGS character.



I'm just going to ask you to be realistic, i dont really care if Krauser is good.(hell i'll give him that) but to say he is going to out right speed around when he didnt do that in the game is silly. He lost to not only Leon but Ada also. Nothing against him on the losses tho, he is still a great fighter overall. But if your going to say stuff like Krauser is that fast all the time then i'll just say Grey Fox or Olga in the ninja suit(whom can dodge bullets/cut block bullets) is just as fast, but only they will be invisable the whole time. Not only that but Vamp, who was so fast he ran on water will be running around at that speed 24/7. Not to mention he can throw one of his knifes at your shadow and bind you in place.


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## Gunshin (Nov 19, 2006)

SengokuGensui said:


> wrong, technique is the reason why fedor won.
> 
> randleman is too 1 dimensional. so is coleman.
> 
> that is why hammerhouse isnt doing really well lately.


I asked again, what does that have to do with anything? Unless you can name an opponent Fedor fought with Krauser class strength, you really have no argument. Bob Sapp beat Ernestoo Hoost 2x in a row. What does that prove? Nothing. You are also suggesting that Krauser is not skilled, which really isn't the case.


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## Sengoku (Nov 19, 2006)

you shouldn't put words into people's mouths
you said krauser would win because hes more powerful. Which of course i gave examples in real life perspective and proved you wrong.

bobb sapp was defeated by crocop and minotauro.
crocop is excellent at striking and minotauro's submission techniques are superb.
hell, sylvia beat monson. and i hate sylvia. CLEARLY, monson had bigger muscles. yet, he still lost.

randleman was clearly stronger than fedor when he basically took fedor back to his spot and then suplexed him. :|


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## Gunshin (Nov 20, 2006)

SengokuGensui said:


> you shouldn't put words into people's mouths
> you said krauser would win because hes more powerful. Which of course i gave examples in real life perspective and proved you wrong.


Where did I put words in other peoples mouth? o_0? You didn't prove anything wrong. Your logic is flawed. Thats my entire point. First of all, the strength diference between Fedor, Colemen, and Randleman is VERY small. Second of all, Fedor is stronger in most physical aspects than Randleman. The only thing Randleman is stronger than Fedor in is explosive strength. The only thing Colemen is stronger than Fedor in is grappling strength in the first couple of minutes in a round. Striking wise Fedor is stronger, and because of Colemans' bad cardio, Fedor becomes stronger as the fight drags on.

What does this have to do with Krausers' superhuman strength vs athletic human strength? Absolutely nothing. Because a. theres no proof that Liquid is more skilled than Krauser. B. the strength difference between them is HUGE. You're using a powerful + skillful warrior with great cardio as evidence that skill > power. 



> bobb sapp was defeated by crocop and minotauro.
> crocop is excellent at striking and minotauro's submission techniques are superb.


Whats your point? You tried to say that skill beats power all the time. Thats not the case. I proved that power can beat skill. You can name as many cases as you want, my one case proves that the otehr is not necessarily always true. Look at Guy Mezger vs Chuck Liddell / Wanderlei Silva. Guy was winning both fights until he became overpowered. Baroni vs *insert name*? 



> hell, sylvia beat monson. and i hate sylvia. CLEARLY, monson had bigger muscles. yet, he still lost.


Sorry, but thats retarded. Monson is the "skilled" example out of those two fighters. He's an well accomplished BJJ Abu Dabi champ. He weighs in around 215lb to 235lbs. He could possibly make LHW. Tim Sylvia cuts from SHW. You get that? SHW. He cuts to 255lbs-260lbs. He's 6'8. He's a big, tall, and  strong goofy guy who has a sprawl and a jab that always has a huge weight advantage over opponents. And you try to use him as the skill example?! LOL. Come on. You really think bigger muscles means you're stronger? 



> randleman was clearly stronger than fedor when he basically took fedor back to his spot and then suplexed him. :|


Clearly stronger than Fedor? LOL. You base that off the suplex? I'm going to assume you never trained or worked out before. Randleman has stronger explosive strength... but all in all physicaly stronger than Fedor? lol. Even a scrub forum like Sherdog would recognize that Fedor is physicaly stronger than Randleman in most aspects.

Anyways this is off topic. To get back on...

1. Krauser's strength advantage over Liquid is NOT like the small gap between Fedor (who is both strong, fit, and skilled )and *whoever*. A better comparison would be 14yr old BJJ practitioner vs an adult male Gorilla. 

2. That gorilla is also a gorilla who is skilled in combat.

3. That Gorilla is also extremely fast.

4. The 14yr old BJJ boy has never even proved he was good. His last name is Gracie so people assume he's good, even though thats not always the case (Renzo, Ryan, etc.).


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## subsistence (Nov 20, 2006)

we have a cap of 400 units for RE and 200 units for MGS people.

think twice on which unit your going to double.

about Sniper Wolf sniping mid air.

it is highly probable..  it is the military anyway.

and please... this is the US army, Russian army, The Godfathers etc etc. thinkers, strategist, war tacticians, who are at play here, do we seriously think that they will send their units (200, i wouldnt send in my precious 200 units on an enemy who i even dont know, or i havent seen his/her defenses) on a suicide mission without even knowing who theyre up against?

Knowledge is power. LOL

and no.. i highly doubt theyl be battling in H2H.

MGS nature = they only send 1 unit and that is SOLID SNAKE. 

( accompanied with communication paraphernalias )

meaning that anything that SOLID see's itll all be reported back to HQ.


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## Indarapatra (Nov 20, 2006)

400 zombies is a little unfair. let's make it a thousand strong. they infect all the genomes, the sub-bosses like vampire, raven, etc. which, in turn, creates more zombies and boss zombies for them to fight. as for the metal gears, there's not much one can do if you've got lickers crawling all over the gears' bodies then make their way to the cockpits.

grey fox would put up a good fight but eventually sacrifice himself to save the others (of course). raiden sees that leon's got gayer hair than him and decides to shoot himself, to the delight of everyone. solidus is a chump. everybody in the mgs side will get infected by the virus except for ocelot, the boss, liquid, big boss and, of course, solid snake. the five are surrounded by the remaining few zombies and zombie bosses. (the re humans were dead way before) they choose to make a last stand then proceed to KICK ASS. eventually, they win.

winner: mgs


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## Sengoku (Nov 20, 2006)

When krauser gets his whole body blown up and is still surviving (hand),
come back and debate.

Liquid Snake would kill Krauser easily. Better thinking and fighter.
Together with a mix of brain, power, strength, technique, etc. molds into 1 seperate embodiment of badass, liquid snake.


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## Id (Nov 20, 2006)

No PIS, CIS, or Jobbing. Wesker would Curbstomp's Solid Or Liquid.


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## Juggernaut (Nov 20, 2006)

Solid and Naked Snake are practically better than anyone in the RE universe.  They could take down any of them in a one on one.

But besides that, Metal Gears vs Zombies and other freakish monsters is really no contest.


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## Id (Nov 20, 2006)

Ptr Grifin said:


> Solid and Naked Snake are practically better than anyone in the RE universe.  They could take down any of them in a one on one.
> 
> But besides that, Metal Gears vs Zombies and other freakish monsters is really no contest.



Practically better on what grounds?


Wesker pretty much out ranks all of them in every department.


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## Sengoku (Nov 20, 2006)

out ranks them?
wesker is only in S.W.A.T.

liquid is in foxhound. foxhound is considered elite more so than the delta forces.

delta force > swat.


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## Id (Nov 20, 2006)

SengokuGensui said:


> out ranks them?
> wesker is only in S.W.A.T.
> 
> liquid is in foxhound. foxhound is considered elite more so than the delta forces.
> ...



Dude?.go do some research then come back and edit this stupid post.


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## Birkin (Nov 20, 2006)

For some help on Wesker's strength and all, here are two fighting scenes:

Satellite Anthem Icarus


Satellite Anthem Icarus PART A
Satellite Anthem Icarus PART B

Judge it. :>


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## Id (Nov 20, 2006)

Infinite_Justice said:


> For some help on Wesker's strength and all, here are two fighting scenes:
> 
> Satellite Anthem Icarus
> 
> ...



Don?t even bother in helping him. He needs to get up and look up information on its own, before making comments.

He goes around claiming ?I? do not know a thing about MGS, yet he barely shows minimum knowledge of RE.

A hypocrite down to each letter.


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## ZergKage (Nov 20, 2006)

Id said:
			
		

> No PIS, CIS, or Jobbing. Wesker would Curbstomp's Solid Or Liquid.



Is the REverse the only verse with PIS/CIS?? I could go on forever on the multiple people that would tear through the ranks of RE people without PIS/CIS


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## Id (Nov 20, 2006)

ZergKage said:


> Is the REverse the only verse with PIS/CIS?? I could go on forever on the multiple people that would tear through the ranks of RE people without PIS/CIS



Dude in case you didn?t know.
In the OB all matches are set with no PIS/CIS.

And second. I stated Wesker outranks Liquad, Solid, (And Ill even take a step further) Solidus, Big Boss, Raiden and Joy, in every department.

You want to prove me wrong take a shot at it

1 on 1. None from the list above with standard equipment and no PIS/CIS have the means to take out Wesker.


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## Birkin (Nov 20, 2006)

Id said:


> Don’t even bother in helping him. He needs to get up and look up information on its own, before making comments.
> 
> He goes around claiming “I” do not know a thing about MGS, yet he barely shows minimum knowledge of RE.
> 
> A hypocrite down to each letter.



I'm not really helping either =) As the topic starter, it's benificial if I provide some facts along the way. =) It basically goes to everyone. <3


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## Id (Nov 20, 2006)

Then I suggest all of un-informed to look up *Weskers Report*. Maybe this will stop people from making idotic claims like....
"Wesker only Swat"


And while your add it Look up *Ada’s Report*.


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## Birkin (Nov 20, 2006)

Good point, only S.W.A.T is a bit weak of a claim isn't it?


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## blueradio (Nov 20, 2006)

*resident fucking evil would pwn metal gear.*  (although! i am lover of both)


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## Id (Nov 20, 2006)

Infinite_Justice said:


> Good point, only S.W.A.T is a bit weak of a claim isn't it?



Yes it is. Out right stating that proves that he knows close to nothing.

I’m sorry, but playing 1 or 2 RE games does not give you the full grasp of what’s going on in RE or what Wesker is capable of.

To tell you the truth. The only character I see that can match up to Wesker in overall performance is Grey Fox as the Cyborg Ninjas and Vamp. 

And possibly 

Cyborg Grey Fox Ninja is the absolute True Badass of the MGSU.


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## Sengoku (Nov 20, 2006)

obviously saying cyborg or vamp can be a good match with wesker further validates my claims that you dont know wtf you are talking about.

why didnt you include solid snake in the picture? maybe because he would kill wesker?


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## Id (Nov 20, 2006)

SengokuGensui said:


> obviously saying cyborg or vamp can be a good match with wesker further validates my claims that you dont know wtf you are talking about.
> 
> why didnt you include solid snake in the picture? maybe because he would kill wesker?



Read my post carefully.

I already stated Solid is not a mtach for Wesker, wo why would I add him to my list.


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## ZergKage (Nov 20, 2006)

Id said:
			
		

> Dude in case you didn’t know.
> In the OB all matches are set with no PIS/CIS.
> 
> And second. I stated Wesker outranks Liquad, Solid, (And Ill even take a step further) Solidus, Big Boss, Raiden and Joy, in every department.
> ...



Dude, in case you didnt know i know the rules and know them well. I also know the difference between bloodlust and PIS/CIS. So if your trying to say that Wesker gets bloodlusted while no one else does then your wrong, because a bloodlusted MGSverse would savagely beat the hell out of the REverse.

I dont know where you get Wesker beating everyone you just listed. With guns, the majority of those people would kill him. H2H, he would have a better shot.

And i dont have to prove those people are better than Wesker, you have to prove he is better than them. That will be fun to see.


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## Id (Nov 20, 2006)

No I am not implying Wesker gets blood lusted while the rest doesn’t.
I am implying that in a strait up match 1on1. None from the list that consist of
*Big Boss, Joy, Liquad, Solidus, Solid, or Raiden.* Could match up to Wesker.


Wesker simply out ranks them all in just about every department.


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## Sengoku (Nov 20, 2006)

bro, how do you put cyborg above snake????????

snake beat cyborg..


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## Id (Nov 20, 2006)

SengokuGensui said:


> bro, how do you put cyborg above snake????????
> 
> snake beat cyborg..



That was PIS/CIS

Do understand the definition of PIS/CIS

Do you understand the level of difference in physical power/speed/stamina Cyborg had over Snake.

Do you understand that Cyborg did not fight they way he was shown in the Cut-Scenes.

If Cyborg was at 100%, Snake would not have won the fight.


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## Sengoku (Nov 20, 2006)

So why cant you admit that Metal Gears (if 100% pissed off and serious) can take down Nemesis?

And don't tell me ONE rocket is enough to take down Metal Gear, because it's NOT.

It's a FACT, that Metal Gears would stomp all the zombies. Saying Metal Gears would die just by 1 rocket or hell, even not knowing where the specific "critical location" would still destroy the gears sounds to farfetched in my book.

OH, and metal gear is more powerful and STRONGER than Nemesis and WESKER. Denying that, only further proves that you are a hypocrite.


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## Id (Nov 20, 2006)

SengokuGensui said:


> So why cant you admit that Metal Gears (if 100% pissed off and serious) can take down Nemesis?
> 
> And don't tell me ONE rocket is enough to take down Metal Gear, because it's NOT.
> 
> ...



Did you see what Grey Fox’s laser beam did to Rex?

That laser beam is nothing compared to Charge Particle Rifle or Containment Linear Launcher.


Know do you remember how the rockets, and bullets did not effect Fortune because of her barrier.

Well tada,, guess what? It wont work on Morpheus as well for the same reasosons. (only he does not need an electromagnetic device to put up a barrier)

Oh and it took a variation of a Charge Particle Rifle to take down Nemesis.

Rockets and bullets doesn’t cut it.


ZergKage said:


> .
> 
> And i dont have to prove those people are better than Wesker, you have to prove he is better than them. That will be fun to see.



Pick your choice from the list.


----------



## Sengoku (Nov 20, 2006)

huh? grey fox has a lazer beam? i didnt know that.

from all of this, each to his own
seems like this is a stalemate.

however, you think RE would win

I think MGS would win.

guess diff opinions win always.


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## ZergKage (Nov 20, 2006)

Id said:
			
		

> No I am not implying Wesker gets blood lusted while the rest doesn?t.
> I am implying that in a strait up match 1on1. None from the list that consist of
> Big Boss, Joy, Liquad, Solidus, Solid, or Raiden. Could match up to Wesker.
> 
> ...



Then prove this, dont just say it. I for one would love to see you prove he could beat Solidus


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## Id (Nov 20, 2006)

ZergKage said:


> .
> 
> And I don’t have to prove those people are better than Wesker, you have to prove he is better than them. That will be fun to see.



In fact ill start of. This applies to all from my list.

*Combat Knowledge*
Even, well maybe... no Ill just stick to Even. (I’m sorry my MGS Fanboism wanted to kick in).
*Reasons why. (Keep in mind I have background knowledge of all characters)
Wesker is umbrellas agent, and trigger man. Wesker formed the Raccoon City Police Department's S.T.A.R.S. unit for the Raccoon City branch off of the S.T.A.R.S. headquarters in New York city, and served as its captain and as leader of one of its two squads, under Umbrellas orders.

*Physcal attributes.*

Speed - Wesker - Superhuman
Stamina - Wesker - Superhuman
Strength - Wesker Superhuman


Any other physical abilities - Yes only Wesker, regeneration (quick healing)


* Intelligence *- 
Wesker. 185 IQ is big. But what has any of them shown. All ware manipulated and their IQ was never established in any field out side Military Combat.

But Wesker on the other hand, was one of the that helped develop the T and G virus along with BOW project. And he is one of the main causes of  Umbrella’s Collapse.


Now my question to you is.
How is a Character with peak human abilities going to be capable of taking on some one who is equally knowledgeable, but out ranks them in every physical attribute?


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## King Bookah (Nov 20, 2006)

Well I get what you are saying Id and I agree, but don't the Patriots have Wesker beat in the manipulation/all knowing departments?  Those guys have been manipulating shit about as early as the 60s'.


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## Id (Nov 20, 2006)

SengokuGensui said:


> huh? grey fox has a lazer beam? i didnt know that.
> 
> from all of this, each to his own
> seems like this is a stalemate.
> ...




Yes remember when he fought Rex.
Link removed
(Yes MGS TS is worth the purchase to see this Clip major pawnage)

If you think MGS>RE is fine by me.
If you thin MGS=RE is fine by me

But to think, omgygawd, MG>>>$#@$%#@!%>>>>RE.
Simply No.

I think what most think of this is, Big Robots vs. Mindless Zombies. (Low Tiers)
And overlook that, in the REU you are taking on the military, enhanced  Soldiers, and an uncontrollable viral outbreak.


In fact I think both games are some what similar to each other in the sense that both universe use weapons to establish order, control, and monopolize the world threw it.

RE- viral break threw in effort to establish dominance in Biological warfare. Also attempts to make enhance soldiers by biological manipulation (you could say gene manipulation as well)

MGS- Technological break thru in various fields including Nuclear warfare. Also attempts to make enhance soldiers by gene-manipulation.


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## ladytanaka (Nov 20, 2006)

Gunshin said:


> Why MGS would lose...
> 1. Infection
> - Crows, bats, ants, bees, parasite, flying bugs, mega bite, spiders, etc.. can all infect the Genome soldiers and any humanoid boss character. Once infected by the unknown disease, they will spread it to their comrades (who will try to help them in good nature) while those tiny creatures continue to infect the bio portion of the MGS army from land, sea, and air.



But the OP only specified an max army size of 400 zombies and the various bosses, I believe.  In which case, that 400 limit covers ALL infected undead-type creatures (former humans, animals, etc.) INCLUDING bosses. Other contaminated/mutated creatues are not specified by the OP.  In that case, it would take time for other creatures to be contaminated/mutated.  Furthermore, there's an issue of proximity.  If most of the combat occurs at a distance, the chances of contamination drop significantly.



> - Poisons not associated with T/G virus will also spread amongst the human population of team MGS. They have no antidotes for the airborn poisons of Nosferatu. They have no antidotes from the air born posions of Evil Shades. They have no antidotes for the spiders and several other creatures who's posions can kill you in minutes.



Again, proximity is an issue. The only reason that Nosferatu's poison was an issue was because the boss fight took place at fairly close quarters (a helicopter platform, I believe).  There's no indication that any of the RE bosses can hurtle poison more than 50-100 ft.  The same thing applies to most of the poisonous creatures -- their effect is relative short-ranged.  

And if confronted by strange monsters, especially strange biological ones, contamination/infection would be a big concern and my first inclination would be to take them out as far away as possible.



> 2. Resistance, regeneration, and assimilation
> - Many in the RE army are resistant to most weapons. For example, to kill Leechman, you must disintegrate every last piece of him with flames over 212? F. G-virus creatures can take rocket launcher shots with ease.



But that durability only really applies to the boss-type monsters, not the majority of 'ordinary' RE zombies.  Therefore, using conventional incendiary and explosive ordinance would eliminate the bulk of the zombies, leaving a relatively low number of boss-monsters.   Even the large ones like elephants, lions, etc. would fall to copiously applied conventional heavy ordinance.



> - Shot guns, Machine guns, Rocket Launchers, etc.. won't mean crap when Leechmen, Tyrants, G-virus, G-virus infected Tyrants, Nemesis, etc.. just regenerate afterwards.



Again, these are boss monsters, of which there are a limited number (i.e., equal to the ones faced in the actual games).  That totals about maybe 50-60, at most?  



> - Armed zombie down. -1 for RE team. MG boss or Genome down. -1 for MG team +1 for RE team. Considering RE already has the advantage in numbers, this is a great disadvantage for MG team.



First thing, what percentage of RE zombies are actually armed? Only several of the boss-types, I believe.  And you cannot assume conversion of MGS soldier to RE zombie will always happen, unless you also assume that the MGS characters are so stupid as to allow obviously dangerous bio-contaminated creatures into close proximity.

Besides, the total numbers of RE zombies is somewhat irrelevant, given that most ordinary zombies would be destroyed fairly rapidly, either by the MGS soldiers or the Gears.  



> 3. Attacks from all directions.
> - Zombies, Dogs, Liquors, Elephants, Lions, Hunters, Leechmen, Superhumans, Nemesis, Tyrants, G-virus Birkin, etc.. can attack by land.
> - Bees, Crows, Bats, Flying Bugs, Horn Bill, Giant Moths, etc.. attack by air.
> - Neptune, Nautilus, Glimmer, Lurker, Albanoid, Alligator, Yawn, etc.. attack by water.
> - Sliding Worm, Grave Digger, Gulp Worms, and Adder attack underneath the earth



But most of these creatures are not specified by the OP.  The OP only mentions zombies and boss monsters.  Therefore, unless stated otherwise, mutated monsters are not present, unless somehow generated during the fight.  And if you're talking about swarms of zombie insects, that counts to the 400 zombie limit stated by the OP.  As swarms go, that's definitely on the small side. 



> 4. Fear and paranoia
> - Once infection spreads fear and paranoia will also spread amonsgt the MGS ranks. Hell, actually, the MGS team would be spooked at the very sight of the RE team. A gigantic swarm of bees, crows, zombies w/weapons, superhumans w/weapons, etc.. will spook them from the start. Shooting them with their m16s etc.. and seeing it have no effect will also spread the fear and paranoia. On the otherhand, the undead army will march forward unphased.



Sorry, but no gigantic swarm -- remember 400 zombie limit, and no mutated monsters specified.  So if you want a swarm of zombie bees and crows, the very max you can have is 400 creatures of any zombie-type *total*, and that's assuming that the 400 doesn't count the bosses.  If you count the bosses as part of the 400, the swarm size drops to 350 or less.  Certainly nasty, but I doubt it would enough to paralyze trained soldiers with fear.

Also, they are facing very highly trained soldiers, who are unlikely to just totally freeze or suffer a massive breakdown in morale at the slightest setback.  When they see that small arms fire isn't working, the logical and most likely response would be to pull out heavier ordinance, which will definitely have an effect on the lower level zombies.



> MG's only hope is Metal Gears, but sadly, those gears can be taken down easily by RE's supersoldiers and Nemesis.



I'm not arguing that the RE bosses wouldn't cause problems.  They might even win.  However, I just wanted to point out that most of your reasoning for RE winning really don't seem valid, given: (1) the limitations set forth by the OP; (2) the high likelihood that much of the combat will most probably occur at a significant distance, which substantially reduces the possibility of contamination and infection.


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## Id (Nov 20, 2006)

gaara d. lucci said:


> Well I get what you are saying Id and I agree, but don't the Patriots have Wesker beat in the manipulation/all knowing departments?  Those guys have been manipulating shit about as early as the 60s'.



Yes, Wesker was a pawn like Liquadus or Solidus (more like Liquadus) but so far, Wesker has succeeded in almost bringing Umbrella down to its knees manipulating many in the processes. As well as attaining power (He plans to make his own Umbrella).

On top of all, while all characters are somewhat left on the dark and only know bitts of information when it comes to MGS.

Wesker knew from the start what Umbrella was about.


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## ZergKage (Nov 20, 2006)

Id said:
			
		

> *Combat Knowledge*
> Even, well maybe... no Ill just stick to Even. (I?m sorry my MGS Fanboism wanted to kick in).
> *Reasons why. (Keep in mind I have background knowledge of all characters)
> Wesker is umbrellas agent, and trigger man. Wesker formed the Raccoon City Police Department's S.T.A.R.S. unit for the Raccoon City branch off of the S.T.A.R.S. headquarters in New York city, and served as its captain and as leader of one of its two squads, under Umbrellas orders.



Combat Knowledge is clearly in Solidus' favor. The guy has been in different battle situations and even taught others how to fight. He is the one who taught Raiden. His battlefield presence and know how far exceeds Weskers

The advantage goes to Solidus



			
				Id said:
			
		

> *Physcal attributes.*
> 
> Speed - Wesker - Superhuman
> Stamina - Wesker - Superhuman
> ...



Strength - While not that big of a deal when using guns, you could say that Wesker is stronger than Solidus, but Solidus isnt far behind.

Stamina - Would be a tie unless you can provide a time where Wesker did something for a long period of time and didnt get tired. Saying someone is Superhuman doesnt get you anywhere in the MGSverse where majority of the people are Superhuman.

Speed - Now i know this is where you fell off. Your talking about a guy who can block bullets with swords or his arm. The only kind of speed Wesker showed was running up a wall. That is no where near the speed it takes to block automatic gun fire with your arm. Hell he was even dodging REX gunfire.

Quick healing??? But is it enough to survive a bullet to the head, or missles blowing off your legs, or being electrocuted.

The advantage here goes to Solidus, because you cant beat what you cant hit.



			
				Id said:
			
		

> * Intelligence *-
> Wesker. 185 IQ is big. But what has any of them shown. All ware manipulated and their IQ was never established in any field out side Military Combat.
> 
> But Wesker on the other hand, was one of the that helped develop the T and G virus along with BOW project.



The only intelligence that counts is Combat intelligence, which Solidus has in the bag. The advantage here goes to Solidus



			
				Id said:
			
		

> Now my question to you is.
> How is a Character with peak human abilities going to be capable of taking on some one who is equally knowledgeable, but out ranks them in every physical attribute?



Seriously let me list the ways.

His motified FN P90 with armor piercing rounds. 
Any number of missles in his face.
Cutting him up with his swords.
Electrocuting him with the tentacles

In a fight, Solidus would merc Wesker. That is if Wesker didnt run away.

Solidus is peak human......lol


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## Id (Nov 20, 2006)

> But the OP only specified an max army size of 400 zombies and the various bosses, I believe. In which case, that 400 limit covers ALL infected undead-type creatures (former humans, animals, etc.) INCLUDING bosses. Other contaminated/mutated creatues are not specified by the OP. In that case, it would take time for other creatures to be contaminated/mutated. Furthermore, there's an issue of proximity. If most of the combat occurs at a distance, the chances of contamination drop significantly.





 It's from all games so far, heroes and zombies from RE cooperate along every enemy we've seen in the games. The army of zombies are maximum 400. And they have a total of last bosses equal to what you see in the games (for example only one transformed william birkin)

OP did no limit me the RE  to just Zombies.
Lickers
Sweepers
Mr. X
Nemesis
Cleaners (enhanced soldiers)
Etc…
Anything that was done to in mass production can be used.

All of them can take hits from shell bullet weapons farily well. And all it would take to start of an outbreak would be a simple scratch.

The spread of contamination is one of the major reasons why RE has a distinct advantage.
An all out battle among 2 universes with all the resources at hand will not be a short one. In fact Time is an enemy for MGSverse. Even in a controlled area ware security for contamination was an all time high, was not enough to conceal it. And when Contamination broke out threw out the city, the only thing Umbrella or the Government could do was wipe out the City using Nukes. (Which have bin banned by the OP)



> Again, proximity is an issue. The only reason that Nosferatu's poison was an issue was because the boss fight took place at fairly close quarters (a helicopter platform, I believe). There's no indication that any of the RE bosses can hurtle poison more than 50-100 ft. The same thing applies to most of the poisonous creatures -- their effect is relative short-ranged.
> 
> And if confronted by strange monsters, especially strange biological ones, contamination/infection would be a big concern and my first inclination would be to take them out as far away as possible.



Good point, but if Nosferatu decided to involve himself in the scrimmage among the Genome soldiers would be catastrophic. 



> But that durability only really applies to the boss-type monsters, not the majority of 'ordinary' RE zombies. Therefore, using conventional incendiary and explosive ordinance would eliminate the bulk of the zombies, leaving a relatively low number of boss-monsters. Even the large ones like elephants, lions, etc. would fall to copiously applied conventional heavy ordinance.



The Genome Soldiers are far from perfect. And many of the hunters, sweepers etc… are much faster and stronger then they are. Not only that, but they seem to keep a low key, to strike their foes of gourd.

Not only that but given that Genome are out numbered, gives that much more to locate and shoot down.
Its not easy to take down the Zombies or BOWs by conventional search and destroy method. 
This is why Umbrella (or the Government) ultimately used a Nuclear weapon to take them down.



> Again, these are boss monsters, of which there are a limited number (i.e., equal to the ones faced in the actual games). That totals about maybe 50-60, at most?



Boss monsters are limited.
But BOW and Cleaners can be massed produced. Those aren’t limited.

I know that Zombies play as a major theme in the, mutation was the consequence of  viral outbreak. But to limit the use of BOW would be silly. After all BOW is the reason why Umbreall persued the study in virology 



> First thing, what percentage of RE zombies are actually armed? Only several of the boss-types, I believe. And you cannot assume conversion of MGS soldier to RE zombie will always happen, unless you also assume that the MGS characters are so stupid as to allow obviously dangerous bio-contaminated creatures into close proximity.
> 
> Besides, the total numbers of RE zombies is somewhat irrelevant, given that most ordinary zombies would be destroyed fairly rapidly, either by the MGS soldiers or the Gears.



It would be stupid to use the standard Zombies as the unit to proceed, in an all out war against MGS.
Why Does RE have to limit their units to mindless zombies. No, you will see plenty of those as a consequential effect when the Genomes attempt to take on BOW.

And there are Cleaners who are enhanced soldiers that work as military personal. RE also have Las Plagas infected characters that keep their intelligence, and are capable of handling fire arms.



> But most of these creatures are not specified by the OP. The OP only mentions zombies and boss monsters. Therefore, unless stated otherwise, mutated monsters are not present, unless somehow generated during the fight. And if you're talking about swarms of zombie insects, that counts to the 400 zombie limit stated by the OP. As swarms go, that's definitely on the small side.



The OP states we can use any means necessary within the limit’s of RE. 

Why don’t you ask the OP if we are limited to strickly Zombies or can RE universe use any amount of BOW under the 400 character limit cap.



> Sorry, but no gigantic swarm -- remember 400 zombie limit, and no mutated monsters specified. So if you want a swarm of zombie bees and crows, the very max you can have is 400 creatures of any zombie-type total, and that's assuming that the 400 doesn't count the bosses. If you count the bosses as part of the 400, the swarm size drops to 350 or less. Certainly nasty, but I doubt it would enough to paralyze trained soldiers with fear.
> 
> Also, they are facing very highly trained soldiers, who are unlikely to just totally freeze or suffer a massive breakdown in morale at the slightest setback. When they see that small arms fire isn't working, the logical and most likely response would be to pull out heavier ordinance, which will definitely have an effect on the lower level zombies.



Assumeing that the Genomes are capable of takcing them out in the quickest possible way with out infection. Yes MGS would curb stomp RE. But knowing that, MGS is not properly trained (you don’t see these in VR simulations know) form of attack. Yeah you would be a bit freaked out. Prolonging the battle will only lead to a contamination break out in which all form of life can be effected.

This is ware Zombies in form
Human
Marine
Mamal
Insect
Plant

Would start to surge. And MGS would not only have to deal with just the RE but their own personal and resource turned against them.



> I'm not arguing that the RE bosses wouldn't cause problems. They might even win. However, I just wanted to point out that most of your reasoning for RE winning really don't seem valid, given: (1) the limitations set forth by the OP; (2) the high likelihood that much of the combat will most probably occur at a significant distance, which substantially reduces the possibility of contamination and infection.



Well you see  contamination is almost guaranteed. Simply because when Umbrella decided to dispatch the “Cleaners” who happened to be enhanced soldier with immunity to viral infection, was not enough.

You going to tell me, a Government who knows lil to nothing about viral - infection will succeed ware RE government failed even thought they have the same means (if not more) to take down the zombies and the spread of infection effectively?


----------



## Id (Nov 20, 2006)

I am not even going to bother to compare all attributes since you totally missed what I meant.

 If Solidus is equipped with the power suit then. Yes Solidus is more then capable of tacking on Wesker on even ground.

I take this one step above *if any* high tier character from MGS is equipped with a power suit would more then a challenge for Wesker.


And yes with out the Power Suit. One of the Clones Of Big Boss is only peak human at best.


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## ZergKage (Nov 20, 2006)

Id said:
			
		

> I am not even going to bother to compare all attributes since you totally missed what I meant.
> 
> If Solidus is equipped with the power suit then. Yes Solidus is more then capable of tacking on Wesker on even ground.



The hell do you think standard equipment is? When did you not see Solidus with his Suit.

Yea, Nekkid Solidus vs Wesker

Wesker Wins!!!!

Maybe you just realized how wrong you were and refuse to accept it. Wesker hasnt done much of anything besides run on the wall for a few seconds then punch Veronica. He took some impressive hits but none of that will save him from a bullet in the face.


----------



## Id (Nov 20, 2006)

ZergKage said:


> The hell do you think standard equipment is? When did you not see Solidus with his Suit.
> 
> Yea, Nekkid Solidus vs Wesker
> 
> ...



You know what, I be the bigger person and admit that when I meant the sons of big boss I didn?t stop to consider the Power Suit.

But that is only because members kept on ranting on that the Sons of Big Boss (Liquid or Snake) ware more then capable of handling some one who has Bin augmented beyond Human limitations. 




If I remember correctly you ware one of those members



*Spoiler*: __ 






Id said:


> No I am not implying Wesker gets blood lusted while the rest doesn?t.
> I am implying that in a strait up match 1on1. None from the list that consist of
> *Big Boss, Joy, Liquid, Solidus, Solid, or Raiden.* Could match up to Wesker.
> 
> ...





ZergKage said:


> I dont know where you get Wesker beating everyone you just listed. *With guns, the majority of those people would kill him*. H2H, he would have a better shot.
> 
> And i dont have to prove those people are better than Wesker, you have to prove he is better than them. That will be fun to see.






So 1/6 = characters I listed equals the majority right?


----------



## ladytanaka (Nov 20, 2006)

Id said:


> It's from all games so far, heroes and zombies from RE cooperate along every enemy we've seen in the games. The army of zombies are maximum 400. And they have a total of last bosses equal to what you see in the games (for example only one transformed william birkin)
> 
> OP did no limit me the RE  to just Zombies.
> Lickers
> ...



Well, if that's the case ("along every enemy we've seen in the games"), then I would say the MGS side has a major problem.  And the limit of merely 400 zombies is pretty much pointless, given that this interpretation of the OP's setup allows for an unlimited amount of any other creature.  ::shrug::



> Boss monsters are limited.
> But BOW and Cleaners can be massed produced. Those aren?t limited.
> 
> I know that Zombies play as a major theme in the, mutation was the consequence of  viral outbreak. But to limit the use of BOW would be silly. After all BOW is the reason why Umbreall persued the study in virology



Well, if you say that the RE side has unfettered capacity and opportunity to generate as many RE non-zombie creatures as they want, but the MGS side is strictly limited to the original set of combatants and Gears, then of course the RE side will win, if simply by a matter of attrition and weight of numbers.



> It would be stupid to use the standard Zombies as the unit to proceed, in an all out war against MGS.
> Why Does RE have to limit their units to mindless zombies. No, you will see plenty of those as a consequential effect when the Genomes attempt to take on BOW.
> 
> And there are Cleaners who are enhanced soldiers that work as military personal. RE also have Las Plagas infected characters that keep their intelligence, and are capable of handling fire arms.



That's assuming that the RE side is specifically picking and choosing only 'elite' zombies, instead simply using whatever zombies that happen to be around, which is fine.  ::shrug::



> The OP states we can use any means necessary within the limit?s of RE.



Sorry, I can't find this bit.   



> Why don?t you ask the OP if we are limited to strickly Zombies or can RE universe use any amount of BOW under the 400 character limit cap.



Okay.  Clarification questions for the OP, then.  

(1) Does the 400 zombie limit apply _*only*_ to the zombie-type creatures, with no restriction on the number (or type) of any other creature (i.e., BOWS, bosses, Cleaners, mutated creatures, etc.)?  Or does the 400 zombie limit restrict the TOTAL number of any type of RE creature allowed in the fight?

Because I've mentioned above, if the number of non-zombie RE creatures is unlimited, then MGS is basically guaranteed to lose, if simply by sheer weight of numbers.


----------



## Gunshin (Nov 20, 2006)

ladytanaka said:


> But the OP only specified an max army size of 400 zombies and the various bosses, I believe.  In which case, that 400 limit covers ALL infected undead-type creatures (former humans, animals, etc.) INCLUDING bosses. Other contaminated/mutated creatues are not specified by the OP.  In that case, it would take time for other creatures to be contaminated/mutated.  Furthermore, there's an issue of proximity.  If most of the combat occurs at a distance, the chances of contamination drop significantly.


The battle ground should be specified. I'd say a battlefield would favor MG while urban areas favor RE. 



> Again, proximity is an issue. The only reason that Nosferatu's poison was an issue was because the boss fight took place at fairly close quarters (a helicopter platform, I believe).  There's no indication that any of the RE bosses can hurtle poison more than 50-100 ft.  The same thing applies to most of the poisonous creatures -- their effect is relative short-ranged.


This will only be a big issue depending on where the battle takes place. I was imaginaning a more urban/inside setting since most MGs and Res take place in buildings and close quarters.



> And if confronted by strange monsters, especially strange biological ones, contamination/infection would be a big concern and my first inclination would be to take them out as far away as possible.


I don't think a soldier would think of "infection" until one of their own was infected. 



> But that durability only really applies to the boss-type monsters, not the majority of 'ordinary' RE zombies.


He never specified the types the 400 regular zombies have to be. So if you assume that the zombies are all crimson heads, thats some very durable infintry right there. 



> Therefore, using conventional incendiary and explosive ordinance would eliminate the bulk of the zombies, leaving a relatively low number of boss-monsters.   Even the large ones like elephants, lions, etc. would fall to copiously applied conventional heavy ordinance.


I'd like the thread starter to specify what he meant by 400 zombies. I assume that when he says "400 zombies" he's talking about 400 RE: Creatures, because techincaly, there are no "zombies" in the game. Theres people/things infected by T-virus, G-virus, or Las Plagas. Also, what would be the bulk of MG team? He said 200 Genome Soldiers. What weapons have Genome soldiers had available? I don't remember any with flame throwers. I remember grenades... but mostly some kind of rifle.



> First thing, what percentage of RE zombies are actually armed? Only several of the boss-types, I believe.  And you cannot assume conversion of MGS soldier to RE zombie will always happen, unless you also assume that the MGS characters are so stupid as to allow obviously dangerous bio-contaminated creatures into close proximity.


Most Las Plagas types are armed with something. And story wise, all it takes is for a contaminated creature to scratch you. Its not a matter of MGS characters being stupid, but it would happen. Once again, I pictured a more urban battlefield where they'd engage in close quarters since MGS and RE have always taken place in a forrest or some kind of complex. Under that situation, it'd be easy for a infected creature to get the jump on a soldier.



> Besides, the total numbers of RE zombies is somewhat irrelevant, given that most ordinary zombies would be destroyed fairly rapidly, either by the MGS soldiers or the Gears.


The MGS soldiers are next to useless IMO. I'm not sure whos stupider the Genome or the Las Plagas. At least the Las Plagas fight to the death. The Gears IMO are the only hope for MG since they canot be contaminated. Its almost as if they were placed there to ensure MGS victory. I still say the thinking population of RE can take them out.



> But most of these creatures are not specified by the OP.  The OP only mentions zombies and boss monsters.  Therefore, unless stated otherwise, mutated monsters are not present, unless somehow generated during the fight.


Once again.. in RE there is no "zombies".. you're infected by T-virus, G-virus, or Las Plagas. I'm pretty sure the thread starter did not intend for this battle to be 400 regular zombies + boss characters vs MGS with 1 Rex and 30 Rays.



> And if you're talking about swarms of zombie insects, that counts to the 400 zombie limit stated by the OP.  As swarms go, that's definitely on the small side.


I can agree with this if swarms are counted as 1 per out of the 400. 



> Sorry, but no gigantic swarm -- remember 400 zombie limit, and no mutated monsters specified.  So if you want a swarm of zombie bees and crows, the very max you can have is 400 creatures of any zombie-type *total*, and that's assuming that the 400 doesn't count the bosses.  If you count the bosses as part of the 400, the swarm size drops to 350 or less.  Certainly nasty, but I doubt it would enough to paralyze trained soldiers with fear.


The thread starter definately needs to be more specific. If you count each bug as 1 out of 400, than i'd say this battle is retarded and EXTREMELY biased in favor of MGS.



> Also, they are facing very highly trained soldiers, who are unlikely to just totally freeze or suffer a massive breakdown in morale at the slightest setback.


Yeah they would. Every time we see Genome soldiers they're getting scared, pissing their pants, or something. 



> When they see that small arms fire isn't working, the logical and most likely response would be to pull out heavier ordinance, which will definitely have an effect on the lower level zombies.


I disagree with you. I say the Genome soldiers freak out once they see the monsters and once Genome's start getting infected themselves. And you give them a little too much credit. These are guys who let Solid move past them in a box and pee in their pants when Snake holds a gun to them.



> I'm not arguing that the RE bosses wouldn't cause problems.  They might even win.  However, I just wanted to point out that most of your reasoning for RE winning really don't seem valid, given: (1) the limitations set forth by the OP; (2) the high likelihood that much of the combat will most probably occur at a significant distance, which substantially reduces the possibility of contamination and infection.


You do bring up a lot of good points, and i'd almost have to concede if the 400 cap includes each individual bug in a swarm and if the fight takes place over a large battlefield with a large distance between the armies. The RE team would still have a chance in that situation since they include a lot of intelligent scientist with special abilities and knowledge about chemical weapons.

We need more specification.


----------



## Id (Nov 20, 2006)

Well Gunshin, I guess you take it from here (Ill be off to work soon).


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## ZergKage (Nov 20, 2006)

Id said:
			
		

> You know what, I be the bigger person and admit that when I meant the sons of big boss I didn’t stop to consider the Power Suit.
> 
> But that is only because members kept on ranting on that the Sons of Big Boss (Liquid or Snake) ware more then capable of handling some one who has Bin augmented beyond Human limitations.



And they would. Your being silly if you dont think Solidus comes with his suit. If i said that Batman could beat Cap, why would you assume Batman doesnt get his utility belt. That is standard equipment. I mean what if i told you, " Oh i thought you meant Wesker without the virus." He would get stomped by everyone on that list. But whatever i wont say anymore on it.

As far as people ranting about the Sons of BB beating Wesker, why shouldnt they?? Your igoring the fact that a vast majority of the main villians are superhuman in there own way, even more so than Wesker. While it maybe true that Wesker is stronger than some of them, his speed is nothing to be gawking at. And Snake beats them. Sure some are PIS/CIS but every story has that. 

This isnt a H2H fight and Wesker would lose to a majority of MGS characters if it wasnt.




			
				ID said:
			
		

> So 1/6 = characters I listed equals the majority right?


No, That was the first person we discussed. By all means lets continue


----------



## Sengoku (Nov 20, 2006)

i totally agree with you, zergkage

good analogies btw.


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## Steven Pinhead (Nov 20, 2006)

MGS has The Boss, Big Boss, Snake, the Metal Gears, Liquid, Vamp and

Psycho fucking Mantis.


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## subsistence (Nov 20, 2006)

> And you give them a little too much credit. These are guys who let Solid move past them in a box and pee in their pants when Snake holds a gun to them.



LOL  

orange box!

Those were AI ahaha xD

funny nonetheless.


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## Id (Nov 21, 2006)

ZergKage said:


> No, That was the first person we discussed. By all means lets continue



Whats keeping you? pick your choice and make your first move.


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## ZergKage (Nov 21, 2006)

Thought i'd give you the chance to pick. Fine with me. Lets go with the hated Jack the Ripper.

Combat Knowledge-

Again this goes to Jack. Hes been fighting since he was a kid. Hes been in over 300 VR missions. Survived the Big Shell in incident. 

Physical attributes-

Speed - Jack, being able to beat Solidus in a sword fight, Able to put Vamp down in close quarters
Stamina - Again equal unless you can prove other wise
Strength - Wesker

He was able to beat Vamp(faster than Wesker) and Solidus(also faster than Wesker). Wesker will be just another notch on Jacks belt

Intelligence - 

Again the only kind that matters is combat, again Raiden has more experience

In a gunfight he would kill Wesker.


----------



## Cthulhu-versailles (Nov 21, 2006)

Just now I read to page three... and this thread is pretty nifty.
...
Metal Gear should stomp on Residental evil. 
Shaghod 
Other Metal Gears
Snake, Liquid, Bigboss, Raiden with Full Gear
Volgin, 
Fortune
Psyco Mantis 
Ocelot bloodlusted,
The Fear
Raven with tank and gatling guns  (this guy was such a badass...)
The Cyber Ninja's... 
Vamp
= resident evil getting pwned to shit.


----------



## Gunshin (Nov 21, 2006)

Hate to go against Zerg but.. 



ZergKage said:


> Again this goes to Jack. Hes been fighting since he was a kid. Hes been in over 300 VR missions. Survived the Big Shell in incident.


In regular conventional warfare, sure. I'd say Wesker has more experience in urban enviornments and against the supernatural. There was this old military reality show called Combat Missions with SWAT, Green Beret, Seals, Army, etc.. and I remember the SWAT stomping everyone at the urban combat scenario where they have to swarm a town and envade an apartment complex. Once again, depends on the enviornment.



> Speed - Jack, being able to beat Solidus in a sword fight, Able to put Vamp down in close quarters


Jack beating Solidus in a sword fight doesn't mean he's faster. It means that Raiden is better in cqc (or that it was necessary for Jack to win to continue the story). Furthermore, isn't Solidus old and out of his prime? Putting down Vamp in close quarters doesn't prove he's faster than Vamp. It proves he's smarter than Vamp and that he has stronger faster weapons. Keep in mind that along with his supernatural abilities, Wesker has guns.



> Stamina - Again equal unless you can prove other wise


I haven't layed MG2 in  along time, but doesn't Raiden get tired runnng? I clearly remember he gets tired holding on to a ledge.



> He was able to beat Vamp(faster than Wesker)


Again, doesn't mean he's faster than Vamp. Nami beat the CP9 chick, it doesn't mean Nami is stronger or faster than CP9 chick. It just means CP9 chick jobbed to her. What speed feats has Raiden shown? Wesker is so fast he can run on walls.



> and Solidus(also faster than Wesker). Wesker will be just another notch on Jacks belt


I don't see how Solidus is faster than Wesker. I remember Vamp had some speed feats, but not Solidus. 



> Again the only kind that matters is combat, again Raiden has more experience
> 
> In a gunfight he would kill Wesker.


Depends on the enviornment, and would Raiden kill him in a gunfight? Wesker has strong regen abilities. Gameplay mechanics out, Raiden is a regular human who will die if hit in a vital area. If you look at the stats and remove PIS/CIS, Wesker is the clear favorite out of the two.


----------



## Orion (Nov 21, 2006)

raiden kill wesker......lmfao are u serious no just no wesker has shown tons of superhuman strength speed reflexes and preety much genius level intellect he would destroy raiden.


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## Gunshin (Nov 21, 2006)

Fujiwara-no-Sai said:


> Metal Gear should stomp on Residental evil.


Metal gear can be destroyed by a single man with a stinger. Theres a lot of weapons stronger than stingers in RE. Theres also a lot of intelligent superhuman scientist as well. 



> Shaghod


Same as above, except its a tank. Grave diggers and etc.. can make the tank sink into the earth.



> Other Metal Gears


Those fragile Rays suck. 



> Snake, Liquid, Bigboss, Raiden with Full Gear
> Volgin,
> Fortune
> Psyco Mantis
> ...


All vulnerable to the T-virus, G-virus, etc.. by the way.. what do you think any of those guys or all of those guys you mentioned can do to a stage 5 G-virus?


----------



## Birkin (Nov 21, 2006)

ladytanaka said:


> (1) Does the 400 zombie limit apply only to the zombie-type creatures, with no restriction on the number (or type) of any other creature (i.e., BOWS, bosses, Cleaners, mutated creatures, etc.)? Or does the 400 zombie limit restrict the TOTAL number of any type of RE creature allowed in the fight?



I'll give you a simple answer to this; it's not only zombie creatures, but everything else. The only thing specified is that you can't mass produce for example G-infected Birkin. I.E you can have let's say 400 lickers if you like. And the bosses are NOT included in that cap, which goes for both sides really.


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## Birkin (Nov 21, 2006)

First page edited, take a look at the new rules and whatsoever.


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## Sengoku (Nov 21, 2006)

New rules eh? Mgs wins.

dead cell, foxhound, cobras can just take out all the zombies, including pests.

then, let the metal gears take care of the rest. Nemesis? no problem, just get a metal gear and step on him and dont move.


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## Red (Nov 21, 2006)

zombies you should know by now pwns all....
plus their have been resident evil zombies that tear thru steel like tissue


----------



## subsistence (Nov 21, 2006)

> Any city like Raccoon city, just bigger. But mostly the same.
> Urban and narrow.
> 
> Open field, nothing in the way at all, can basically see every foe except the ones underground.



errr this could go either way.

but in favor ofcourse of RE, since basically... there are RE units underground.

but if not for it, MGS would give RE universe a rain of bullets ( ofcourse not just bullets )




> As for the zombie bugs; NO, 1 bug is NOT counted as 1/400, by itself, the bugs should have a cap of 100, which totals out 100/500 for the RE side. Might as well increase the Genome soldiers to 300 and 40 small Rays.



with the bugs having an increase it would be a problem.

but then again. MGS could launch an air strike from afar, sacrificing their own units to gain the advantage. 

It happens 

but if this is a face to face battle then it could go to RE, a flawless victory.


----------



## Id (Nov 21, 2006)

ZergKage said:


> Thought i'd give you the chance to pick. Fine with me. Lets go with the hated Jack the Ripper.
> 
> Combat Knowledge-
> 
> Again this goes to Jack. Hes been fighting since he was a kid. Hes been in over 300 VR missions. Survived the Big Shell in incident.



No I do not give the advantage to Jack. For one, Wesker is the secret agent that works for Umbrella as their trigger man.
 He was also the one that helped evolved the BOW in effort to improve them.
In order to establish control over the experiment. Umbreall ordered Wesker to join the police department of Racoon City to make a special task force (STARS).

Besides didn't Snake poke fun at Jack when he mentioned he had almost strickly combat experience via VR missions??


ZergKage said:


> Physical attributes-
> 
> Speed - Jack, being able to beat Solidus in a sword fight, Able to put Vamp down in close quarters
> Stamina - Again equal unless you can prove other wise
> Strength - Wesker



Yeah Im sure that when you are in a video game and you the main character happens to be a human…..well him beating Meta Humans = He is a Meta Human…Right…..

Speed. Jack is only peak human at best. Wesker is Superhuman

Stamina - the subject of so much controversy, but increased stamina does fall under his regenerative abilities. 

Strength - I am not even going to bother pointing out the obvious.





ZergKage said:


> Intelligence -
> 
> Again the only kind that matters is combat, again Raiden has more experience
> 
> In a gunfight he would kill Wesker.



An obvious advantage for Wesker. He was in charge of the BOW project. Part of the project was spent on human development. For a Secret Agent, he obviously given well knowledge in armed and unarmed combat. For a some one who helped Developed the Tyrant, he obviously knows the human anatomy vary well.


Oh good effort by they way.





Gunshin said:


> Hate to go against Zerg but..
> 
> 
> In regular conventional warfare, sure. I'd say Wesker has more experience in urban enviornments and against the supernatural. There was this old military reality show called Combat Missions with SWAT, Green Beret, Seals, Army, etc.. and I remember the SWAT stomping everyone at the urban combat scenario where they have to swarm a town and envade an apartment complex. Once again, depends on the enviornment.




I saw some of the Ep. I did a lil info digging, Swat team are not exactly slackers to begin with.
And 

Dexter Fletcher Bravo SWAT CM Champion


----------



## Sengoku (Nov 21, 2006)

who said VR missions is for pussies?
Snake might poke fun of him for that, but that is because Snake is Snake.

who knows, maybe the VR training is better and superior than those of other trainings issued by other military organizations.


----------



## Id (Nov 21, 2006)

SengokuGensui said:


> who said VR missions is for pussies?
> Snake might poke fun of him for that, but that is because Snake is Snake.
> 
> who knows, maybe the VR training is better and superior than those of other trainings issued by other military organizations.



Um?no one has.
Just that Actual Experience > VR Missions.

It would be like comparing Snake to Raiden.
Snake Prime w/ all his experience vs. Raiden w/ 300 VR Missions. 
Who wins?


----------



## ZergKage (Nov 21, 2006)

Gunshin said:
			
		

> Hate to go against Zerg but..



Dont worry about it mate  i'd still say your a reasonable person even if we dont agree on the outcome.



			
				Gunshin said:
			
		

> In regular conventional warfare, sure. I'd say Wesker has more experience in urban enviornments and against the supernatural. There was this old military reality show called Combat Missions with SWAT, Green Beret, Seals, Army, etc.. and I remember the SWAT stomping everyone at the urban combat scenario where they have to swarm a town and envade an apartment complex. Once again, depends on the enviornment.



About the reality show, i watched that, it was fun to see but has nothing to do with Raiden or Wesker. If were talking about Combat Knowledge then Raiden has more, hes been fighting since he was a kid and hes been trained by Solidus then the military. Hes even been in 300ish VR missions. He has more battle experience. So far we havent seen Wesker do anything. I'm not sure where he gets this "better than everyone else talk" from. What has he done to earn that beside look "badass." Hes a schemer, that doesnt mean he can match people in combat effectiveness. 



			
				Gunshin said:
			
		

> Jack beating Solidus in a sword fight doesn't mean he's faster. It means that Raiden is better in cqc (or that it was necessary for Jack to win to continue the story). Furthermore, isn't Solidus old and out of his prime? Putting down Vamp in close quarters doesn't prove he's faster than Vamp. It proves he's smarter than Vamp and that he has stronger faster weapons. Keep in mind that along with his supernatural abilities, Wesker has guns.



Solidus' body looks old and stuff because of the cloning process. He still has the power suit that boost his strength and speed. The guy was blocking automatic gunfire with one arm. That being said your right, its not that Raiden is as fast as him(though you have to be above normal to beat a guy that can do that) but that Raiden can react to him. If he can react to/and hit someone like that why would he all of a sudden have trouble with Wesker?? Same basic deal with Vamp. Vamp is faster than Wesker, Raiden was able to keep up with and beat him. Whether its fast reflexes, combat training or whatever if hes capable of doing this why is he gonna lose to Wesker?? "Human" type characters beat "Superhuman" types all the time in the MGS and RE verses. 




			
				Gunshin said:
			
		

> I haven't layed MG2 in along time, but doesn't Raiden get tired runnng? I clearly remember he gets tired holding on to a ledge.



The running i'm not sure, you could be right but yea he does get tired hanging on ledges(this could be just game mechanics). But getting tired from shooting a gun??? Running to another corner?? Lets put it this way, he was able to survive the Big Shell incident. That was basically back to back fighting in different positions, running all over the place. He might get tired but he is trained to push himself past that.



			
				Gunshin said:
			
		

> Again, doesn't mean he's faster than Vamp. Nami beat the CP9 chick, it doesn't mean Nami is stronger or faster than CP9 chick. It just means CP9 chick jobbed to her. What speed feats has Raiden shown? Wesker is so fast he can run on walls.



Thats true, doesnt mean hes faster than Vamp, but it also doesnt mean Wesker will beat him due to being "superhuman". Nami vs the CP9 chick is a whole nother story, she beat her using tricks, Raiden flat out beat these people in combat. Even i can admit there is some jobbing in that but i mean that is the basic story established in MGS1. It doesnt matter what kind of genes you have, if you have the training and dedication you can overcome many things. 

The running on the walls is nothing spectacular, i've seen Tony Jaa do very similiar(only difference being that he didnt jump that far off the wall). And it wasnt like he was running fast while doing that, Veronica still caught him with her fire. After that he was able to dodge the same fire by doing a basic roll that even Chris was able to dodge. 



			
				Gunshin said:
			
		

> I don't see how Solidus is faster than Wesker. I remember Vamp had some speed feats, but not Solidus.



Solidus was shown on many occasions blocking automatic gun fire with swords. And even with just his arm. He was also shown dodging through RAY machine fire. I've never seen Wesker do anything besides that "Jackie Chan" wall run. That holds no water to blocking/dodging bullets.



			
				Gunshin said:
			
		

> Depends on the enviornment, and would Raiden kill him in a gunfight? Wesker has strong regen abilities. Gameplay mechanics out, Raiden is a regular human who will die if hit in a vital area. If you look at the stats and remove PIS/CIS, Wesker is the clear favorite out of the two.



In what envirnoment would Wesker have the advantage in a fight? And i keep hearing about Weskers strong regen but i dont remember it. If he took a bullet he would be affected just like anyone else. PIS/CIS removed works on both sides. Veronica would have flat out caught Wesker on fire in that fight and ended it. There isnt anything that Wesker has done that Raiden hasnt done, but better. I still dont get what Wesker has done that earns him a win over Raiden.


----------



## Gunshin (Nov 21, 2006)

SengokuGensui said:


> dead cell, foxhound, cobras can just take out all the zombies, including pests.


Um.. no. Heres my 400 creatures + 100 swarm + Boss Characters... 

REGULAR 
- 200 armed Las Plagas soldiers
- 50 Enhanced Lickers
- 50 Elite Hunters
- 50 Iron Maidens
- 25 Black Widows
- 25 Glimmer
- 100 Leechmen
- 100 Flying Bugs

_Keep in mind that there are many minature spirders within each black widow. The leechmen each consist of hundreds of leeches which can swarm and take over another host. The flying bugs are almost invisible._

So no, theres no way all of those coiuld be eliminated by those groups. Someone would eventualy get blown away, shot, assimilated, poisoned, or infected. 

*strat against living portion of MGE*

*SWARM AND INFECTION*

Heres the key figures in making the RE Army much bigger and spreading infection once the battle commences.

- Queen Bee (Boss)
Can produce unlimited amounts of T-virus infected bees. These bees will spread amongst the living portiuon of MGS infecting them, distracting them, and forcing them to waste their ammunition.

- G-virus Birkins (Boss), at 2nd stage.
Produces baby offsprings which like the fully matured Offspring in RE2 bridge room and Outbreak...

- Offspring (Boss)
Produced by Birkins, the Offspring can create even more baby offspring, which upon entering a living or dead corpse, will become an Offspring themselves. 

So you have swarms of T-virus infected bees being mass produced by the Queen Bee. Birkins Stage 2 and Offspring will create more baby Offspring, which upon entering dead or living corpses, will become another fullgrown Offspring which will make more baby Offspring. Sherry will also become another William Birkins who will continue to produce Offspring and then both will eventually transform into G-virus Stage 6.

*SCIENTIST UNITE!*
The sentient scientist of RE will spread T-virus in the air and water.



> then, let the metal gears take care of the rest. Nemesis? no problem, just get a metal gear and step on him and dont move.


Veronica can spread her controlled giant T-Veronica infected vines all over the enviornment. She can use these vines to restrict the Metal Gears and by effecting the ground below them. This will make it much easier for armed RE team to take them down with Particle Cannons, RPGs, and Rocket Launchers. G-Virus can also consume the gears.


----------



## ZergKage (Nov 21, 2006)

Id said:
			
		

> No I do not give the advantage to Jack. For one, Wesker is the secret agent that works for Umbrella as their trigger man.
> He was also the one that helped evolved the BOW in effort to improve them.
> In order to establish control over the experiment. Umbreall ordered Wesker to join the police department of Racoon City to make a special task force (STARS).
> 
> Besides didn't Snake poke fun at Jack when he mentioned he had almost strickly combat experience via VR missions??



Being a "triggerman" and working for umbrella gives you more combat experience than someone thats been fighting other "humans" that move and think since he was a kid??? What has Wesker done that gives him more experience??? Create a virus?? Does that give you 5+ years of combat knowledge??? 

That was because that all he knew at that point. As the story progressed you learned that Jack has been fighting since he was a kid and was trained by Solidus. He was so good at killing that they named him Jack the Ripper/ White Devil. Hell even Solidus admitted before the final fight that he was so good because of BB's genes, but that Jack was a one of a kind.




			
				Id said:
			
		

> Yeah Im sure that when you are in a video game and you the main character happens to be a human?..well him beating Meta Humans = He is a Meta Human?Right?..
> 
> Speed. Jack is only peak human at best. Wesker is Superhuman
> 
> ...



Again saying that someone is "superhuman" does not get you a win in the MGSverse. All of the "human" characters overcome their "superhuman" villains. Jack has done things that put him at or > Wesker in speed. Stamina and Strength arent really much of an issue unless it gets into H2H. Even then if Jack can go toe to toe with Solidus(someone you will admit as better than Wesker) and kill him, why is he all of a sudden gonna freeze and and get beaten by a Labrat.



			
				Id said:
			
		

> An obvious advantage for Wesker. He was in charge of the BOW project. Part of the project was spent on human development. For a Secret Agent, he obviously given well knowledge in armed and unarmed combat. For a some one who helped Developed the Tyrant, he obviously knows the human anatomy vary well.
> 
> 
> Oh good effort by they way.



Wow. I'll say it again. Him developing a virus does not give him the combat knowledge needed to defeat Raiden. That would be like me saying Raiden can make a better T-Virus than Wesker based on his combat knowledge


----------



## Id (Nov 21, 2006)

When you are a Secrete Government Agent. (After all, Umbrella was working for the gov.)
With vast knowable in military combat. 
And are needed in the development of the BOW’s using your knowable.

Um…yeah having profound knowledge in human anatomy makes you a better killer.


----------



## ZergKage (Nov 21, 2006)

Then prove it.


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## Id (Nov 21, 2006)

ZergKage said:


> Then prove it.



I did. Prove me wrong. (this is getting old.)

Oh and NO BS, Metahuman>>>Peak Human. Unless PIS/CIS is involve.

Hunk
Chris
Leon

all of them in some way or another have overcome, Superhuman or Really strong monsters. That doesn?t mean I place them in a Metahuman category.
I'd expect a bit more from you to acknowledge that.


----------



## Orion (Nov 21, 2006)

how is this being debatted while i think mgs has a decent chance of pulling a victory,wesker would stomp jack,he moves fast enough to run on walls has regenerative abilties super human strength and  is a genius.


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## ZergKage (Nov 21, 2006)

Id said:
			
		

> I did. Prove me wrong. (this is getting old.)
> 
> Oh and NO BS, Metahuman>>>Peak Human. Unless PIS/CIS is involve.
> 
> ...





> When you are a Secrete Government Agent. (After all, Umbrella was working for the gov.)
> With vast knowable in military combat.
> And are needed in the development of the BOW?s using your knowable.
> 
> Um?yeah having profound knowledge in human anatomy makes you a better killer.



You said being in Umbrella and creating a virus gives him more combat knowledge that Raiden. Prove it. 

Creating a virus does not give you years of experience in warfare. 

The thing you have to understand is this isnt the "real world," "humans" in the MGS world are the best at what they do. The number one killer in the MGS world was a human in The Joy(she even lead a group of "superhuman people). After that the number one killer was Big Boss, another human(that lead a superhuman team). After that you have Snake(whom beat another superhuman team, then went on to beat a superior clone). All these people are human in a world that is full of superhumans. So simply saying that they are "human" and thus cant beat a "superhuman" is just wrong.


----------



## Id (Nov 21, 2006)

ZergKage said:


> You said being in Umbrella and creating a virus gives him more combat knowledge that Raiden. Prove it.
> 
> Creating a virus does not give you years of experience in warfare.
> 
> The thing you have to understand is this isnt the "real world," "humans" in the MGS world are the best at what they do. The number one killer in the MGS world was a human in The Joy(she even lead a group of "superhuman people). After that the number one killer was Big Boss, another human(that lead a superhuman team). After that you have Snake(whom beat another superhuman team, then went on to beat a superior clone). All these people are human in a world that is full of superhumans. So simply saying that they are "human" and thus cant beat a "superhuman" is just wrong.



Who did Joy Kill? When did we see her take on a Meta Human? Or are going to count her win over Big Boss as a massive display of Metahuman level abilities?

And a corporation working the for the government does not assign a  Scientist to come up a team of  SWAT efficient group and lead it with out background knowledge in that particular field as well.


----------



## ZergKage (Nov 21, 2006)

Id said:
			
		

> Who did Joy Kill? When did we see her take on a Meta Human? Or are going to count her win over Big Boss as a massive display of Metahuman level abilities?



Joy was said to be the best soldier in the US Army. She also created and lead the Cobra Unit. The same unit with all those other "freaks." She was the only person to embarass BB like that. It was a flat out beating everytime they met, until the end where her duty was finished and the only thing left for her to due was die a traitor. Did we see her take on any Metahumans, no, but she lead a group of them and was the best one out of all of them. 




			
				Id said:
			
		

> And a corporation working the for the government does not assign a Scientist to come up a team of SWAT efficient group and lead it with out background knowledge in that particular field as well.



Your assuming. Tell me why Wesker has more combat knowledge than Raiden.


----------



## Id (Nov 21, 2006)

ZergKage said:


> Joy was said to be the best soldier in the US Army. She also created and lead the Cobra Unit. The same unit with all those other "freaks." She was the only person to embarass BB like that. It was a flat out beating everytime they met, until the end where her duty was finished and the only thing left for her to due was die a traitor. Did we see her take on any Metahumans, no, but she lead a group of them and was the best one out of all of them.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



His formation of STARS. Like I mentioned earlier you do not point out tactical division to a scientist. It doesn?t work that way. Especially for a big Corporation who is bent on the development of Biological Warfare. (RE 1)

He also established a recon lead by ?Cleaners? to snatch the finding of G-Virus. (RE 2 and 3)

Attempted to take on T-Veronica, non the did recover the last reminding sample of the T-Veronica. (He bested Hunk in this mission). (RE CV)


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## Sengoku (Nov 21, 2006)

send in the sorrow and mess wesker's mind up *evil grin*

I think the mgs people have more experienced dealing with "stronger" enemies than the STARS people did.
Before the zombie outbreaks, what did the stars have to deal with? Probably, splinter cell type enemies lol.

when the first outbreak spread throughout the mansion and raccoon city, the heroes managed to survive. So, in comparison, I'm 100% confident the guys from MGS, who already faced tougher guys would survive the same as well.


----------



## ZergKage (Nov 21, 2006)

Id said:
			
		

> His formation of STARS. Like I mentioned earlier you do not point out tactical division to a scientist. It doesn?t work that way. Especially for a big Corporation who is bent on the development of Biological Warfare. (RE 1)
> 
> He also established a recon lead by ?Cleaners? to snatch the finding of G-Virus. (RE 2 and 3)
> 
> Attempted to take on T-Veronica, non the did recover the last reminding sample of the T-Veronica. (He bested Hunk in this mission). (RE CV)



Yes you do appoint a scientist to a tactical division if his sole purpose for being there is to come up with a taskforce for real life combat data against the very thing hes been trying to create for years(the perfect biological weapon). It just so happened that the virus spread out and thus they lost their "controled envirnoment." Those S.T.A.R.S. members where nothing more than lab mice in an experiment. 

Yes, he did attempt to fight Veronica but as soon as he was engaged he ran and left Chris and Claire to handle it. Certainly if Wesker was this "badass" your trying to paint to me, he would have takin care of it himself.


----------



## omg laser pew pew! (Nov 21, 2006)

About the infection thing, how would you make it work?

Basically in all the RE videos, one bite you're infected but in the game that almost never happened


----------



## Sengoku (Nov 21, 2006)

^^ i already stated that before, but they say that its in-game or some shit.
in return, i said that Metal Gears dont go down that easy AND that rocket ammos dont refill on its own.

nice point though, i thought i was the only one.

quite funny though, if RE vs MGS is happening, its bound to have herbs in the city to cure and replenish health.


----------



## Id (Nov 22, 2006)

If, some one who follows orders to assassinate, survives 3 outbreaks, and heads establish a special task force for the police department, is certainly not your average Officer, Soldier or Scientist. there is no exaggeration that the character Wesker is being portrayed in RE.

Anyone who confronts T-Veronica without proper equipment is in for a hard fight. It Heavy ammunitions and Rocket Launchers ware not enough to bring her down. Other then Nuclear Strike, 
Containment Linear Launcher (Heat Treated, Hydrogen Plasma) or something similar would be necessary to take her (it) down.


She is one of the very few mutations (As in injecting the virus directly into a human body) that benefit from Full augmented abilities yet retains her full intellect. 


What I do find silly is the idea of Humans taking on Metahumans.

In that case the Bitch in the Red Dress (Ada) should be capable of taking on Joy, seeing as how Ada has experience in handling Metahumans, and not just humans.


Hunk, Umbrella’s top soldier should be a match for Raiden, seeing how he has an incredible record in surviving every mission. Keep in mind that in just about every mission he seems to be the only person to survive and complete the task given at hand.


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## subsistence (Nov 22, 2006)

> Who did Joy Kill? When did we see her take on a Meta Human?



afaicr, Volgin.

but my memory could be playing at me.


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## Orion (Nov 22, 2006)

^^is volgin actually considered meta...


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## Birkin (Nov 22, 2006)

I care to bump it! Or is the thread dead already? :|


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## Captain Pimp (Nov 22, 2006)

One thing that I don't get is how anyone from Metal Gear Solid Universe can detect one of those invisible bugs from RE4, which can decapitate a person's head easily. Also, Salazaar's right hand man can be trouble for MGS characters if the scenario is in right hand man's favor...


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## ZergKage (Nov 22, 2006)

Id said:
			
		

> If, some one who follows orders to assassinate, survives 3 outbreaks, and heads establish a special task force for the police department, is certainly not your average Officer, Soldier or Scientist. there is no exaggeration that the character Wesker is being portrayed in RE.



Chris, Claire, Leon have survived 2 outbreaks(i'm sure theres more but you get the point). At least with them you know they were in the thick of it. With Wesker you just never know. Surviving outbreaks arent easy but on the same hand they're not that difficult either. Its a whole different senario than surviving against genome soldiers with guns that think and move and are smart. Now, i'll admit Wesker is above average in skill and enhanced, but he hasnt shown any combat skill on par with Raiden. 



			
				Id said:
			
		

> Anyone who confronts T-Veronica without proper equipment is in for a hard fight. It Heavy ammunitions and Rocket Launchers ware not enough to bring her down. Other then Nuclear Strike,
> Containment Linear Launcher (Heat Treated, Hydrogen Plasma) or something similar would be necessary to take her (it) down.
> 
> She is one of the very few mutations (As in injecting the virus directly into a human body) that benefit from Full augmented abilities yet retains her full intellect.



This all depends on how you wanna play this ID, think carefully. Because i can say 3 to 5 magnum sized bullets can take her out also.




			
				Id said:
			
		

> What I do find silly is the idea of Humans taking on Metahumans.
> 
> In that case the Bitch in the Red Dress (Ada) should be capable of taking on Joy, seeing as how Ada has experience in handling Metahumans, and not just humans.



Again you'll have to prove that she has takin anything on par with what Raiden has. Its been a while but lets see. In RE:2 she doesnt fight anything remarkable(if anything at all), oh add to the fact that she "died." Lets move on to RE:4 where she was nothing more than a nusiance to the village leader. She was however caught by Saddler and if not for Leon would have died. 



			
				Id said:
			
		

> Hunk, Umbrella?s top soldier should be a match for Raiden, seeing how he has an incredible record in surviving every mission. Keep in mind that in just about every mission he seems to be the only person to survive and complete the task given at hand.



Your grasping for straws now. Hunk is neither a Hero or a Zombie, hes a minigame character they incorperated into two games. But fine, again tell me what "zombies" he took out that Raiden couldnt.


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## Sengoku (Nov 22, 2006)

lol ada better than the boss...
had to questioned if i was dreaming or not XD

anyway, like i said, before the outbreak, the heroes(re) took on Splinter Cell type terrorists. 

Exactly what would happen if it happens to MGS people? same thing, they would beat RE enemies as easily. (zombies, etc.)


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## Id (Nov 23, 2006)

> Chris, Claire, Leon have survived 2 outbreaks(i'm sure theres more but you get the point). At least with them you know they were in the thick of it. With Wesker you just never know. Surviving outbreaks arent easy but on the same hand they're not that difficult either. Its a whole different senario than surviving against genome soldiers with guns that think and move and are smart. Now, i'll admit Wesker is above average in skill and enhanced, but he hasnt shown any combat skill on par with Raiden.



Fair enough, I respect you opinion and I wont push any further. On a different note, I think surviving an out break would be more difficult then overcoming the Genome Soldiers.



> This all depends on how you wanna play this ID, think carefully. Because i can say 3 to 5 magnum sized bullets can take her out also.


Its one thing to point out game mechanics its another thing to point out Plot Line (Or Plot Device). But, no seriously doubt standard shell ammunition (regardless of its size) could take out T-Veronica, Nemesis, G-TYPE or Morepheus.



> Again you'll have to prove that she has takin anything on par with what Raiden has. Its been a while but lets see. In RE:2 she doesnt fight anything remarkable(if anything at all), oh add to the fact that she "died." Lets move on to RE:4 where she was nothing more than a nusiance to the village leader. She was however caught by Saddler and if not for Leon would have died.



I agree that RE seems to have less impressive feats then MGS (it seems to follow a more realistic approach then MGS). But that was more or less the Classic or Old Games. It seems that following Code Veronica, RE franchise is pushing the characters to be a bit more extraordinary. (personally I don?t like it, its one of the reasons why I stoped playing RE.)

Any how Ada from RE 4 seems to be a league or two above Ada from RE 2.
Ada's Report on Krauser

That's me by the way, with my ds xD

Ada's Talk with Wesker

That's me by the way, with my ds xD


Krauser Alive?!?!

That's me by the way, with my ds xD




> Your grasping for straws now. Hunk is neither a Hero or a Zombie, hes a minigame character they incorperated into two games. But fine, again tell me what "zombies" he took out that Raiden couldnt.



Hunks role has bin ret-conned (per say) and know plays a significant role in RE.
A small history to is bio has bin added since RE CV I think.

He is know umbrellas most experienced soldier. The only one to survive and accomplish the given task on several missions.


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## ZergKage (Nov 23, 2006)

Id said:
			
		

> Fair enough, I respect you opinion and I wont push any further. On a different note, I think surviving an out break would be more difficult then overcoming the Genome Soldiers.



Your opinion(which i can respect), i can agree to disagree.




			
				Id said:
			
		

> Its one thing to point out game mechanics its another thing to point out Plot Line (Or Plot Device). But, no seriously doubt standard shell ammunition (regardless of its size) could take out T-Veronica, Nemesis, G-TYPE or Morepheus.



Then you understand what i was saying. I only brought this up because you said "heavy ammunitions and Rocket Launchers ware not enough to bring her down." That is ingame mechanics. If the Veronica took heavy fire or missiles she would die. 



			
				Id said:
			
		

> I agree that RE seems to have less impressive feats then MGS (it seems to follow a more realistic approach then MGS). But that was more or less the Classic or Old Games. It seems that following Code Veronica, RE franchise is pushing the characters to be a bit more extraordinary. (personally I don?t like it, its one of the reasons why I stoped playing RE.)
> 
> Any how Ada from RE 4 seems to be a league or two above Ada from RE 2.
> Ada's Report on Krauser
> ...



Well i love the RE series, the only thing i didnt like was the whole Las Plagus deal. But anyways yea i've seen and played those clips.



			
				Id said:
			
		

> Hunks role has bin ret-conned (per say) and know plays a significant role in RE.
> A small history to is bio has bin added since RE CV I think.
> 
> He is know umbrellas most experienced soldier. The only one to survive and accomplish the given task on several missions.



I know. But he is neither a Hero or Boss so there's really no reason to bring him up. It would be like saying Roy Campbell should be allowed to participate


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## Id (Nov 23, 2006)

> Then you understand what i was saying. I only brought this up because you said "heavy ammunitions and Rocket Launchers ware not enough to bring her down." That is ingame mechanics. If the Veronica took heavy fire or missiles she would die.




I don’t remember to well how the game went, I do remember that in game after shooting T-Veronica the game switches to a clip shot ware the special weapon was thrown in after all other form of ammunition failed to bring her down.

I stand firm by my answer.



> Well i love the RE series, the only thing i didnt like was the whole Las Plagus deal. But anyways yea i've seen and played those clips



Then you would understand that Ada character is know being made into this Agent that is know capable of being manipulative and powerful fighter using her own means and not depending on outside power augmentations (that we know of).

A character that know has actual experience handling Metahuman w/  combat experience (unlike Joy).




> I know. But he is neither a Hero or Boss so there's really no reason to bring him up. It would be like saying Roy Campbell should be allowed to participate


It was meant to show you that, there are characters (soldiers) with vast experience have huge trouble surviving RE out breaks.


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## ZergKage (Nov 23, 2006)

Id said:
			
		

> I don’t remember to well how the game went, I do remember that in game after shooting T-Veronica the game switches to a clip shot ware the special weapon was thrown in after all other form of ammunition failed to bring her down.
> 
> I stand firm by my answer.



Its not that it failed, she would just mutate. I believe Claire took her down(being poisoned in the process) but it didnt kill her. The thing is with cutscenes they dont take into account the multiple weapons you attained throughout the game. This is why you usually see _Insert RE_ character with a pistol during a cutscene. Thats why they had them grab the linear rifle,(i believe it was) but really could you say a missile wouldnt have sufficed? (you can see this in RE:4 also, when Ada throws Leon a "special" rocket lanucher{only difference from the regular one is that its red} that kills Saddler in one hit)




			
				Id said:
			
		

> Then you would understand that Ada character is know being made into this Agent that is know capable of being manipulative and powerful fighter using her own means and not depending on outside power augmentations (that we know of).
> 
> A character that know has actual experience handling Metahuman w/  combat experience (unlike Joy).



Well like you said, you never know if its due to enhancements or not but she was retrieved by Wesker and he also enhanced himself. Its not far fetched to say that she was augmented and in turn had to work with Wesker. I mean she wasnt anything special in RE:2

But again even in RE:4 she was nothing more than a nuisance to the village chief or whatever his name was. I dont think they ever fought. She went on to beat an already beat up Krauser. And lost to Saddler. 

Mean while yes, Joy never had any on screen meta battles that i can remember(though she killed The Sorrow) but in a world of "freaks" that are everywhere She was said to be the best, legendary at that. She was the sole reason the US won WW2 in the MGSverse. That kind of combat knowledge speaks for itself. 



			
				Id said:
			
		

> It was meant to show you that, there are characters (soldiers) with vast experience have huge trouble surviving RE out breaks.



And there are people with little to no experience. You can take Leon from RE:2 for example, it was his first day being a cop and he survived the outbreak. Unless we know what his unit went throught how do we know what he can and cant take.


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## Sengoku (Nov 23, 2006)

As i said before, if these people can survive an outbreak, mgs could do it as well.


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## Gunshin (Nov 24, 2006)

ZergKage said:


> And there are people with little to no experience. You can take Leon from RE:2 for example, it was his first day being a cop and he survived the outbreak. Unless we know what his unit went throught how do we know what he can and cant take.


You also have to consider that Leon is 1 out of 9 people who survived an outbreak where 100,000+ people died.. some more experienced than others. The reason those people survived is a combination of cooperation, luck, and PIS/CIS. Its not a black and white deal.



SengokuGensui said:


> As i said before, if these people can survive an outbreak, mgs could do it as well.


And that logic is retarded. Using that very same logic, I can say:

Pussy scientist who wets his pants and hides in a locker =/> can survive a MGS game. Green women soldier =/> can survive a MGS game.

Its flawed logic. A former Spetsnav failed to survive the Racoon City outbreak. A former Russian Guerrilla failed to survive the Racoon City outbreak. Special Soldiers specialy trained to survive outbreaks failed to survive outbreaks. The list goes on...


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## Goodfellow (Nov 24, 2006)

Well, the poor mythopic genome soldiers wouldn't stand a chance, but I bet Snake and some c4 could fix the 600 fresh out of the oven zombies^^


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## ZergKage (Nov 24, 2006)

Gunshin said:
			
		

> You also have to consider that Leon is 1 out of 9 people who survived an outbreak where 100,000+ people died.. some more experienced than others. The reason those people survived is a combination of cooperation, luck, and PIS/CIS. Its not a black and white deal.



Well Gunshin i'm going to have to ask for proof if i'm reading this right. The citizens of RC couldnt get out because (much like the movie) they set up a barrier around the city. *_RE3 happens_* This is when the government decided to bomb the city. This is the only time they mention 100,000+ people dying, but it was due to the bomb blast, not the virus. I'm almost certain that if not for the barrier or bomb a majority of people would have gotten out of the city. Now if i'm reading this right your saying everyone in RC was a zombie correct? If so i'll need proof. Cause the only reason those 9 or so people didnt die is because of air support (helicopters) which again the majority of the "little" people dont have. If not for this they would have went up too.


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## Sengoku (Nov 24, 2006)

flawed? when did i say everyone in the MGS universe can survive? lol.

its flawed on yall's part by saying they are not used to these kinds of situations, when the fact is that the heroes who never been in one in the first place managed to survive when the outbreak came about.

why not the genome soldiers? they have enhanced abilities moreso than a mere human being.


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## Gunshin (Nov 24, 2006)

ZergKage said:


> Well Gunshin i'm going to have to ask for proof if i'm reading this right. The citizens of RC couldnt get out because (much like the movie) they set up a barrier around the city. *_RE3 happens_* This is when the government decided to bomb the city. This is the only time they mention 100,000+ people dying, but it was due to the bomb blast, not the virus.
> 
> I'm almost certain that if not for the barrier or bomb a majority of people would have gotten out of the city. Now if i'm reading this right your saying everyone in RC was a zombie correct? If so i'll need proof. Cause the only reason those 9 or so people didnt die is because of air support (helicopters) which again the majority of the "little" people dont have. If not for this they would have went up too.


1. The soldiers orders on 9/25 were to evacuate citizens and set up a barrier. The barrier was not made to keep citizens from comming out, it was made to keep t-virus infected nouns from comming out.

2. The 2nd outbreak was 9/22.. the barrier wasn't put up until the 25th. On the 22nd, Birkins released the T-virus in the water supply. During that time, how many people do you think injested tap water?

3. Not only was the military trying to excavate citizens, but so was umbrella.

You're trying to make it look as if the Government made a barrier to seal ALL the people in when that was not the case. Furthermore, byt he time the Government put up the barriers, the only things trying to get through were t-infected creatures. This is evident as many of the barricades were overrun that the Government put up. You do remembver that Leon and Claire both drove in Racoon City through the highway, and that the people at the gas station well outside of Racoon City was infected with T-virus right?

I love how you're trying to make it look like a billion people would have survived if the barricades weren't put up, when in fact, if the barriers weren't put up... the infection would have spread into other cities and towns multiplying the death toll well past 100,000+.


> Cause the only reason those 9 or so people didnt die is because of air support (helicopters) which again the majority of the "little" people dont have. If not for this they would have went up too.


Yes, you're right. The only reason they survived was plot. Had Snake been there alone without CIS/PIS, he would have died by infection or by the bomb.

AND BTW - 

Nothing you said proved your "Rookie Cop Survived, MGS Survives" backwards logic.


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## ZergKage (Nov 24, 2006)

Gunshin said:
			
		

> 1. The soldiers orders on 9/25 were to evacuate citizens and set up a barrier. The barrier was not made to keep citizens from comming out, it was made to keep t-virus infected nouns from comming out.



The barrier was put up. This stopped a crap load of people from just driving their cars out of the city. It takes time to make sure people arent infected as well as people getting to those specific points when normally they could just ride out of town. I'm sure a crapload of people got out before it was put up.



			
				Gunshin said:
			
		

> 2. The 2nd outbreak was 9/22.. the barrier wasn't put up until the 25th. On the 22nd, Birkins released the T-virus in the water supply. During that time, how many people do you think injested tap water?



That was never stated from what i remember. The virus was in the sewers which in turn, infected the mice because it was digested by them. They then ran loose in the city infecting animals and people. Nothing was mentioned about the people turning from drinking tap water. 

It was stated as getting to the city from the rats in the sewers. Unless you can find me a link or anything that says the town was infected by tap water.



			
				Gunshin said:
			
		

> 3. Not only was the military trying to excavate citizens, but so was umbrella.



So what?? 



			
				Gunshin said:
			
		

> You're trying to make it look as if the Government made a barrier to seal ALL the people in when that was not the case. Furthermore, byt he time the Government put up the barriers, the only things trying to get through were t-infected creatures. This is evident as many of the barricades were overrun that the Government put up. You do remembver that Leon and Claire both drove in Racoon City through the highway, and that the people at the gas station well outside of Racoon City was infected with T-virus right?



No i'm not. I'm saying (much like the movie) the government made it harder than it already was to escape. I'm sure lots of people left before it was put up and afterward many people could not get out. For various reasons. It wasnt till later that the government blockades got over ran(RE2 opening) and that is when they dropped the bomb.



			
				Gunshin said:
			
		

> I love how you're trying to make it look like a billion people would have survived if the barricades weren't put up, when in fact, if the barriers weren't put up... the infection would have spread into other cities and towns multiplying the death toll well past 100,000+.



Huh 

You said that their were 100,000+ infected people. I told you that was not true and that the only time they talked about that many people was the bombing of the city. It was est. as 100,000 people dead. I can just as easily say, "I love how your trying to make it seem like the whole city was infected."



			
				Gunshin said:
			
		

> Yes, you're right. The only reason they survived was plot. Had Snake been there alone without CIS/PIS, he would have died by infection or by the bomb.



Thats your opinion. I think Snake would have gotten out easily.  



			
				Gunshin said:
			
		

> Nothing you said proved your "Rookie Cop Survived, MGS Survives" backwards logic.



Maybe this was directed at SengokuGensui but i'll respond anyways...

I wasnt trying to prove anything. ID said that Hunk(experienced) surviving means he can take MGS people. I said well Leon(unexperienced) survived, does that mean he can too. The fact still remains that zombies and soldiers are a whole nother boat. 

You get this upset when i ask for proof of something i dont think happened??

All you really had to say is that i was either right or wrong that the "reported" 100,000+ dead was due to infection or to the bombing.


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## Gunshin (Nov 24, 2006)

ZergKage said:


> The barrier was put up. This stopped a crap load of people from just driving their cars out of the city. It takes time to make sure people arent infected as well as people getting to those specific points when normally they could just ride out of town. I'm sure a crapload of people got out before it was put up.


The point is that theres no proof that uminfected people were not allowed to leave and that there is proof that uninfected people were both allowed to leave, and that by the time the barriers were put up, everyone "trying to leave" was mostly t-infected people and creatures.



> That was never stated from what i remember. The virus was in the sewers which in turn, infected the mice because it was digested by them. They then ran loose in the city infecting animals and people. Nothing was mentioned about the people turning from drinking tap water.


My bad, I mixed up SD Perry novels w/in game. Its been awhile.



> It was stated as getting to the city from the rats in the sewers. Unless you can find me a link or anything that says the town was infected by tap water.


My bad.



> So what??


So the Government was not stopping people from leaving. 



> No i'm not. I'm saying (much like the movie) the government made it harder than it already was to escape. I'm sure lots of people left before it was put up and afterward many people could not get out. For various reasons. It wasnt till later that the government blockades got over ran(RE2 opening) and that is when they dropped the bomb.


Theres absolutely no proof of that. There is much more evidence that suggest 99% of RC's population was already infected with T-virus or killed by something that was. You're trying to make it sound that the 100,000 people dead were mostly uninfected citizens killed by the bomb and that the people who were killed by infection were infected because the Government wouldn't let them out. Theres no proof of that. You look at RE2, and how many living people do you see in the city? RE3? Come on. 



> You said that their were 100,000+ infected people. I told you that was not true and that the only time they talked about that many people was the bombing of the city. It was est. as 100,000 people dead. I can just as easily say, "I love how your trying to make it seem like the whole city was infected."


I said 100,000 people died. You then tried to make it look like it was primarily the work of the bomb. All the bomb did was incinerate people who were already dead. 



> Thats your opinion. I think Snake would have gotten out easily.


I don't think the box gimmick would work in RE.



> Maybe this was directed at SengokuGensui but i'll respond anyways...


It was.


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## Sengoku (Nov 24, 2006)

sure, the box wouldnt work on the zombies, but it would sure as hell work on the humies.


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## ZergKage (Nov 24, 2006)

Gunshin said:
			
		

> The point is that theres no proof that uminfected people were not allowed to leave and that there is proof that uninfected people were both allowed to leave, and that by the time the barriers were put up, everyone "trying to leave" was mostly t-infected people and creatures.



Again i even mentioned " just like the movie." Not that the government wasnt letting anyone thru. The thing is you dont know if their were people still inside the city or not, even up to the bombing. So to say that all 100,000+ were long dead before hand is not true. Just like the guy at the beginning(RE3), who boarded himself up and just felt it would be best if they waited for things to settle down, i'm sure alot more people did the exact same thing and thus got bombed. 



			
				Gunshin said:
			
		

> So the Government was not stopping people from leaving.



I never said they were. Only that much like the movie they made it tougher. I'll put it this way. There are plenty of ways out of Seattle, but if those many roads are blocked off and you have to go to/find specific points in order to escape that makes it extremely hard. 



			
				Gunshin said:
			
		

> Theres absolutely no proof of that. There is much more evidence that suggest 99% of RC's population was already infected with T-virus or killed by something that was. You're trying to make it sound that the 100,000 people dead were mostly uninfected citizens killed by the bomb and that the people who were killed by infection were infected because the Government wouldn't let them out. Theres no proof of that. You look at RE2, and how many living people do you see in the city? RE3? Come on.



There is also no proof of what your saying. What kind of evidence do you have that supports this?? I think a majority of people got out of the city when the outbreak started. Those that didnt and tried later were in some cases blocked in. Those that didnt get out were bombed. To say that 99% of the city was zombified is iffy to me. Thats what i'm sayin. Again i never tried to make it sound like anything, you said that besides those 9 or so people no one else made it out. That's not true. You also made it sound like the est 100,000+ dead were due to infection. I simply said that the reported deaths were by the bombings, no one knows how many were in the city or how many were zombies/humans. Despite what you think people will try and wait things out rather then simply try and zoom off, and they were killed for it. None of them knew the bomb was coming if i remember right. 




			
				Gunshin said:
			
		

> I said 100,000 people died. You then tried to make it look like it was primarily the work of the bomb. All the bomb did was incinerate people who were already dead.



Yes, you tried to tell me all 100,000+ people died due to infection. I told you the only time that was mentioned was when the bomb went off. That was an estimation. Nobody knows how many made it out before or during the blockade. Nobody knows how many were still inside. There is no way to know. So you cant just say everyone was a zombie. 



			
				Gunshin said:
			
		

> I don't think the box gimmick would work in RE.



Fair enough Gunshin. If you truely think that wasnt just added "comedy" and that that was a valid tactic he used all the time then thats on you.


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## Birkin (Nov 25, 2006)

gogo post more <3 consider this a bump <3


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## Kayo (Nov 25, 2006)

The MGS army would win. Snake would blow those dead bitches up in the air


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## Birkin (Nov 25, 2006)

Another shameless bump >.< Yes, this make me feel pathetic but I want an end to this really ;p


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## Hyuuga Neji (Nov 26, 2006)

well i'll go on MGS universe for 3 reasons

first of all becuase i'm completly biased towards MGS

second of all becuase they combine knives, weapons, rocket launchers and add freakin' weird powers as seen for the COBRA unit Foxhound leaders and Dead Cell members.

finally, because the stealthyness adds a whole new dimention to the fight


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## Sengoku (Nov 26, 2006)

Why dont you just put a poll on here?


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## Birkin (Nov 26, 2006)

That's not fun :< arguements ftw <3


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## Sengoku (Nov 26, 2006)

i'm done then.


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## Art of Run (Nov 26, 2006)

The box > all other verses.


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