# Surrounded: How the U.S. Is Encircling China with Military Bases



## Mael (Aug 23, 2013)

> The U.S. military is encircling China with a chain of air bases and military ports. The latest link: a small airstrip on the tiny Pacific island of Saipan. The U.S. Air Force is planning to lease 33 acres of land on the island for the next 50 years to build a "divert airfield" on an old World War II airbase there. But the residents don't want it. And the Chinese are in no mood to be surrounded by Americans.
> 
> The Pentagon's big, new strategy for the 21st century is something called Air-Sea Battle, a concept that's nominally about combining air and naval forces to punch through the increasingly-formidable defenses of nations like China or Iran. It may sound like an amorphous strategy -- and truth be told, a lot of Air-Sea Battle is still in the conceptual phase. But a very concrete part of this concept is being put into place in the Pacific. An important but oft-overlooked part of Air-Sea Battle calls for the military to operate from small, bare bones bases in the Pacific that its forces can disperse to in case their main bases are targeted by Chinese ballistic missiles.
> 
> ...





Some things to point out here:

Saipan/Tinian are part of the Commonwealth of the Northern Marianas Islands, a US Commonwealth.  It's not like Okinawa or elsewhere.  They're under the sovereign oversight of the US.  Their opinion, while noted, is likely moot especially since neighboring Guam has a military presence there.  China's just pissy because of their sweatshop barracks installed on Saipan.  How do I know this?  I spent two weeks in Saipan visiting my now ex-girlfriend back in 2006.
China has been doing its neighbors ZERO favors as of late.  It has trolled Japan to no end over the Senkakus and even Okinawa which really isn't theirs.  It has annoyed South Korea over its insistence on playing nice with North Korea who continues to be the proverbial and geopolitical brat.  It has vexed Vietnam, the Philippines, Malaysia, and others through its egregious and fallacious water claims.  Chinese fishermen invade every spot of territory and leave an utter mess in their wake.  They have zero scruples despite their fucking insistence no one else meddle.
Other Asian nations are practically BEGGING the US to come back and bulk up.  Pan-Asian unity is a joke since Asians hate each other more than Medieval/Renaissance Europeans could ever do and China's idea that it can be the big boy in Asia is not comforting for regional powers like Korea and Japan.  The US sees this and is capitalizing, rightly so.


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## Gain (Aug 23, 2013)

China will never be a threat. 

[YOUTUBE]pG225dz89TY[/YOUTUBE]


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## navy (Aug 23, 2013)

That's nice.


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## Blue (Aug 23, 2013)

Can you imagine if the Chinese built bases in Haiti or Mexico?

We would flip ALL the shit. Right out the fucking window.

It's so good to be American.


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## Strauss (Aug 23, 2013)

Just the military playing a really expensive game of stratego, as usual


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## Godly Giraffe - King of the Uverworld (Aug 23, 2013)

It's that missile defense crap from a decade ago taken to an extreme. But I don't think China is quite as paranoid as the drones here, they won't lash out against the same country that can't do jack without its exports.


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## Seto Kaiba (Aug 23, 2013)

We can actually do quite a lot without them. What's more is they are heavily dependent on someone buying their exports on top of that.

Well. I wonder when someone will start bitching about this.


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## Hand Banana (Aug 23, 2013)

Blue said:


> Can you imagine if the Chinese built bases in Haiti or Mexico?
> 
> We would flip ALL the shit. Right out the fucking window.
> 
> It's so good to be American.



China doesn't have the balls.


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## Blue (Aug 23, 2013)

Hand Banana said:


> China doesn't have the balls.



I think they have the balls, just not the intelligence or the money.

If you want to build a military base in someone's front yard, you have to actually, you know, be nice to them. Pretend you couldn't annihilate their little country 87 times over before tea time.

China doesn't really get that, they're still on a roid rage and trying to flex their way through diplomacy and nobody is buying it because it's like the biggest girl in grammar school trying to flex her muscles when Mr. Schwarzenegger the gym teacher is right over there.

Plus if they wanted to get Haiti, say, to let them build a base, they'd have to do something about America coming in and going "We'll pay you 8 times that, you can keep the land, and we'll rebuild your capital building. Out of gold."

And they couldn't.


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## Godly Giraffe - King of the Uverworld (Aug 23, 2013)

Seto Kaiba said:


> We can actually do quite a lot without them. What's more is they are heavily dependent on someone buying their exports on top of that.
> 
> Well. I wonder when someone will start bitching about this.



Well our economic fall wouldn't be imminent because they collapsed. In fact we owe them too much money as it is. But for the time being they sell a hell of a lot more than we sell them, our lazy asses would need a new manufacturer and I suspect others (Brazilians) aren't diligent enough.

Plus the value of the dollar has plummeted and if Chinese speakers (mainland and Taiwan) lost more faith THAT is an economic downturn. Printing money ain't an infallible defense.


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## Garcher (Aug 23, 2013)

when does the u.s stoping this shit with their military bases ... this is exactly what Eisenhower warned about.


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## Mael (Aug 23, 2013)

Blue said:


> I think they have the balls, just not the intelligence or the money.
> 
> If you want to build a military base in someone's front yard, you have to actually, you know, be nice to them. Pretend you couldn't annihilate their little country 87 times over before tea time.
> 
> ...



They're not even able to flex diplomatically.  Currently it's one or a combination of the following strategies:
1. Bully weaker Asian nations.
2. Prop North Korea up to halt South Korean/Japanese progress.
3. Buy African nations with a Zerg mentality on resources.
4. Ride Russian coattails on how to fuck with the UN.

Building a base in Mexico would be foolish as the cartels would inevitably fuck with them.



Itachi the Best said:


> when does the u.s stoping this shit with their military bases ... this is exactly what Eisenhower warned about.





Sometimes I think they need to start teaching geopolitical strategy in schools.  It's like you get one iota of why this is happening.


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## Aging Boner (Aug 23, 2013)

the Cartels would have Chinese food every night, made out of REAL Chinese.


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## Patchouli (Aug 23, 2013)

Blue said:


> Can you imagine if the Chinese built bases in Haiti or Mexico?
> 
> We would flip ALL the shit. Right out the fucking window.
> 
> It's so good to be American.





> Chinese bases in Mexico



Can you imagine the delicious new types of food they'd make? 

Tex-mex ain't got nothing on Chi-mex.


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## dr_shadow (Aug 23, 2013)

Try as you might, I think at the end of the day I'll find myself on the right side of history.


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## Aging Boner (Aug 23, 2013)

mr_shadow said:


> Try as you might, I think at the end of the day I'll find myself on the right side of history.



you better hope not whitey.

The American southerner ain't got shit on Chinese racism.


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## A. Waltz (Aug 23, 2013)

Blue said:


> Can you imagine if the Chinese built bases in Haiti or Mexico?
> 
> We would flip ALL the shit. Right out the fucking window.
> 
> It's so good to be American.



I love this post so much omg.



And @patchouli; 

Mexico City has better Chinese food than China itself man. There are some big Chinese-Mexican and Japanese-Mexican communities in central Mexico.


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## Blue (Aug 23, 2013)

mr_shadow said:


> Try as you might, I think at the end of the day I'll find myself on the right side of history.



Until China is democratic we're not even playing. Just waiting for the game to start.

Russia found the game is too hard on democracy mode and dropped out. How will China fare, I wonder?


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## Godly Giraffe - King of the Uverworld (Aug 23, 2013)

Mael said:


> They're not even able to flex diplomatically.  Currently it's one or a combination of the following strategies:
> 1. Bully weaker Asian nations.
> 2. Prop North Korea up to halt South Korean/Japanese progress.
> 3. Buy African nations with a Zerg mentality on resources.
> 4. Ride Russian coattails on how to fuck with the UN.



True to the last drop.


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## soulnova (Aug 23, 2013)

Blue said:


> Can you imagine if the Chinese built bases in Haiti or* Mexico?*
> 
> We would flip ALL the shit. Right out the fucking window.
> 
> It's so good to be American.



 don't you know!? THEY ARE ALREADY HERE!! 



AznKuchikiChick said:


> I love this post so much omg.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



This is all true. 





Patchouli said:


> Can you imagine the delicious new types of food they'd make?
> 
> Tex-mex ain't got nothing on Chi-mex.



Traditional Mexican food is already  considered Intangible World Heritage by the UNESCO. You can't improve what is already perfect.


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## Mael (Aug 23, 2013)

mr_shadow said:


> Try as you might, I think at the end of the day I'll find myself on the right side of history.



Pretty deluded brah.

Also @soul: Chimichangas 4 lyfe.


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## Garcher (Aug 23, 2013)

Mael said:


> Sometimes I think they need to start teaching geopolitical strategy in schools.  It's like you get one iota of why this is happening.


Eisenhower warned against the "American Empire" - a product of a interest mesh of policy, military and arm industry. he called it the industrial-military complex, which furthers individual interests instead of national one's.
tell me, for what exactly the US needs 700 bases in around 130 countries. Tell me, why the US is the ONLY country which still conducts offensive wars. Ofc its geopolitical strategy, too BUT is this a good thing at all? Previous soldiers were conscripted in national danger, but now its a standing army. Who owns America? Who owns General Eletric? They produce nukes. Who gives them the money and why? And to protect you from what? You say yourself China isn't a thread at all. This are all questions Obama should ask himself. The "American Empire" didn't come from nowhere, it was created and the military bases spreaded like a terrible kind of cancer.

You don't solve problems with military bases, you create news. People outside the US are very upset you play "world police". What gives you the right to do that? There are no bases of other countries in the US. There are just American bases, and you don't care about the noise its yours at all, but for others it is a real problem. Remember, 9/11 was just a reaction on your military attendance in the near ost. Osama was really angry on you lol.

I think the declaration of indepence is part of the lesson plan in EVERY american elementary school. And there is told that King Georg of England had even in time of peace had troops based in the US who perpetratet abuses and infringements. This is the reason why you made yourself independent. If you don't know your soldiers are behaving not very well, too, ya know, but your government says this were all unique accidents. BUT! REALIZE YOU SOMETHING? THAT SOMETHING IS GOING WRONG? This all resembels in some way the romian republic: without thinking they created a world empire, then they realized they need a standing army, which moved the power structure completly what leaded to the demise of democracy.

Don't get me wrong please, i don't have ANY grudge against the american people, but i cannot understand how you can favour the political course of your government, did you forget what the US, you guys were standing for?


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## Sunuvmann (Aug 23, 2013)

Blue said:


> Can you imagine if the Chinese built bases in Haiti or Mexico?
> 
> We would flip ALL the shit. Right out the fucking window.
> 
> It's so good to be American.


Well considering all the Chinese investment in Cuba, I wouldn't be surprised if shit ever does escalate, we may have Cuban Missile Crisis II


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## makeoutparadise (Aug 23, 2013)

AznKuchikiChick said:


> Mexico City has better Chinese food than China itself man. There are some big Chinese-Mexican and Japanese-Mexican communities in central Mexico.



the running joke here is that everbody who comes back from China after being there for so long wants

Mexican food! XD if what you say is true than there needs to be a Chinese Mexican Buffet that needs to be created so the two awesome foods balance each other out

Heck most of the cooks now in Chinese restaurants are Mexican so let's get on it people!


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## Linkofone (Aug 23, 2013)

Singapore is all China needs ... America can take everything else. 



> Mexico City has better Chinese food than China itself man.



Sounds like opinions to me. 

I've been to many provinces of China and the food was amazing. I had all types of Chinese food ... I don't know how you would generalize Chinese food.

Xiaolong bao was fantastic.


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## Mael (Aug 23, 2013)

Linkofone said:


> Singapore is all China needs ... America can take everything else.



Works for me.  Korean women are hotter anyway.


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## WT (Aug 23, 2013)

Surrounding a nation with your military bases, isn't that effectively a declaration of war?


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## Linkofone (Aug 23, 2013)

Mael said:


> Works for me.  Korean women are hotter anyway.



Opinions. However, I do respect them.

But I perfer Chinese women. I don't care what people say. Because I am Chinese, apparently. 

Personally I like Singaporean women too, they're so nice. So clean. So reasonable.


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## Godly Giraffe - King of the Uverworld (Aug 23, 2013)

Mael said:


> Works for me.  Korean women are hotter anyway.



You'd be surprised how many pieces of mundane filth Korea still has when you get there.


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## makeoutparadise (Aug 23, 2013)

Mael said:


> Works for me. * Korean women are hotter anyway*.



​


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## A. Waltz (Aug 23, 2013)

Tbh though democracy ain't for everyone

At least adjusting to it ain't as easy to some countries as it was for America finding it.


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## Blue (Aug 23, 2013)

Linkofone said:


> Singapore is all China needs ... America can take everything else.


I'm not sure why you think that Singapore would have broken away from the Malaysian riffraff just to become property of Chinese riffraff. Same race, true, but that's about as far as it goes.



White Tiger said:


> Surrounding a nation with your military bases, isn't that effectively a declaration of war?



It's a declaration of war preparedness, which has the practical effect of peace. If China knows America can and will crush it effortlessly, they're far more likely to pursue an economic agenda than a military one, which suits the US just fine.


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## A. Waltz (Aug 23, 2013)

John McCain is having a meeting with the Chinese State Councilor today apparently...his twitter shows a pic of em together.


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## Aging Boner (Aug 23, 2013)

Itachi the Best said:


> Eisenhower warned against the "American Empire" - a product of a interest mesh of policy, military and arm industry. he called it the industrial-military complex, which furthers individual interests instead of national one's.
> tell me, for what exactly the US needs 700 bases in around 130 countries. Tell me, why the US is the ONLY country which still conducts offensive wars. Ofc its geopolitical strategy, too BUT is this a good thing at all? Previous soldiers were conscripted in national danger, but now its a standing army. Who owns America? Who owns General Eletric? They produce nukes. Who gives them the money and why? And to protect you from what? You say yourself China isn't a thread at all. This are all questions Obama should ask himself. The "American Empire" didn't come from nowhere, it was created and the military bases spreaded like a terrible kind of cancer.
> 
> You don't solve problems with military bases, you create news. People outside the US are very upset you play "world police". What gives you the right to do that? There are no bases of other countries in the US. There are just American bases, and you don't care about the noise its yours at all, but for others it is a real problem. Remember, 9/11 was just a reaction on your military attendance in the near ost. Osama was really angry on you lol.
> ...


1. It was actually the Military Industrial CONGRESS iirc, was renamed later.

2. America's major exports are entertainment and War (we're the best at what we do, though what we do ain't always very nice)

3. This world is filled with Lunatics and philosophies far scarier and more dangerous than Americanism. Just imagine a world were Putin, China, North Korea or just about any hardcore fundamentalist Islamic nation possessed Americas military power. Just sleep on that and thank our fat cheese burger eating asses we aren't nearly as mean as we could be...

hell, we used to assassinate National leaders on a whim in our own backyard just a few decades ago; and sell drugs to people to fund enemies of our enemies who would one day become our new enemies. 

We're pretty tame these days by comparison, unless you really believe we didn't torture before 9/11, or have been spying on our own citizens (and the world at large) since at least the 40's.


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## Island (Aug 23, 2013)

Speak softly, and carry a big stick.


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## Blue (Aug 23, 2013)

Aging Boner said:


> 2. America's major exports are entertainment and War



>Implying those are separate things


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## Linkofone (Aug 23, 2013)

And intrusiveness.


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## Saishin (Aug 23, 2013)

No one can challenge the red dragon


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## Garcher (Aug 23, 2013)

Aging Boner said:


> 1. It was actually the Military Industrial CONGRESS iirc, was renamed later.
> 
> 2. America's major exports are entertainment and War (we're the best at what we do, though what we do ain't always very nice)
> 
> ...



Even if there's something what COULD be more dangerous, is that an excuse for anything? Especially for the U.S. which arrogates the leadership of the world ( "we must lead" after the cold war lol), you aren't just any country - you are the only real superpower, but instead of really looking for peace as you propaganda says you just hypocrize and conduct war for money. Is this in the national intereset of the US? If that is the truth, i wish war comes one day to your own country, infact the only one there was the civil war.

So basically say we should be gratefull that the U.S isn't even worse? Why has it to be bad anyway?


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## Mael (Aug 23, 2013)

@Itachi the best: Congrats on sounding like a loon. You represent the kind of Libertarian nonsense that produces the double-standard seen so often in regards to American foreign policy.  Oh noes America is teh world police y u do that?  Then when shit hits the fan, America y u do nothing?  Give me a break with your long-winded crap about power projection and your lack of geopolitical knowledge.  It also reeks of a defeatism that basically says "yeah whatevs let China run rampant through Asia it's not my backyard."  That's the same kind of shit some people thought in 1939.  I believe Jeanette Rankin was one of them and thoroughly scorned at with good reason.

EDIT: You're clearly not American and you're clearly reading off some other brand of ignorant ideology.  I'm guessing you're European and probably a smarmy one at that.



makeoutparadise said:


> ​



Don't hate the player, hate the game.



AznKuchikiChick said:


> Tbh though democracy ain't for everyone
> 
> At least adjusting to it ain't as easy to some countries as it was for America finding it.



But this isn't about democracy.  It's about geopolitics and preventing a regional douche with ethics that even Satan would cringe at from pushing people like Filipinos and Vietnamese around for no good reason.



White Tiger said:


> Surrounding a nation with your military bases, isn't that effectively a declaration of war?



Negatory.  If that logic applied, then North Korea would've been defeated simply by its weapon positioning and rhetoric.



Ken said:


> You'd be surprised how many pieces of mundane filth Korea still has when you get there.



I was actually there for about two weeks this month.  I can certainly count a lot better looking women than I have out of the Chinese and Japanese that's for damn sure.  They're not as fat-faced or wide-faced as the Chinese and not as bony/mousey as the Japanese. 

Case in point, Clara Lee. pek


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## Linkofone (Aug 23, 2013)

Saishin said:


> No one can challenge the red dragon



The dragon awakes.


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## Aging Boner (Aug 23, 2013)

Blue said:


> >Implying those are separate things



there is actually a difference of degree. Allow me to elaborate:

Entertainment is soft power (soft cock, if you will), War is Hard power (an Erection, if you'll allow me the metaphor again).

Now, you're name is China, a strapping young, slender lad full of confidence and ambition.

You suddenly find yourself trapped in a small room (we'll call it Earth).

That room is actually the Cage of a 300lbs. Silverback Gorilla lovingly called America.

You being China, would you prefer that Gorilla stroke your hair gently and whisper encouraging grunts with his "soft power"? 

Or that he rape you mercilessly with his veined member of righteous Freedom for intruding in his territory?

Therein lay the difference between our two major exports.


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## Blue (Aug 23, 2013)

I've missed you.


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## Saishin (Aug 23, 2013)

Linkofone said:


> The dragon awakes.


Arise! Arise! March On! On! 

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UctriMuXYS0[/YOUTUBE]


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## Mael (Aug 23, 2013)

Linkofone said:


> The dragon awakes.



Apparently with a temper tantrum of a five-year-old.


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## Aging Boner (Aug 23, 2013)

Blue said:


> I've missed you.



ah, it's just good to know someone has kept these fence sitting Euro's informed of how real shit can get if we don't play the big bad wolf on occasion.


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Aug 23, 2013)

Ahahahahahah NF


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## Arishem (Aug 23, 2013)

The Red Dragon has rotten teeth and can barely fly, if at all.


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## Saishin (Aug 23, 2013)

Le M?le Dominant said:


> Ahahahahahah NF


What a wonderful NF is 


Arishem said:


> The Red Dragon has rotten teeth and can barely fly, if at all.


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Aug 23, 2013)

Saishin said:


> What a wonderful NF is



They really want their war with China


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## WT (Aug 23, 2013)

Blue said:


> It's a declaration of war preparedness, which has the practical effect of peace. If China knows America can and will crush it effortlessly, they're far more likely to pursue an economic agenda than a military one, which suits the US just fine.



Understood. 

Its effectively a douche move made by a threatened super power.

Its the US's way of saying, "We're for peace and we wish you and your people peace but don't you dare try and fucking over take us because we don't want to be second. If you do try, it will be extremely unfortunate that we'll have to unleash hell on you but hey that's the way nature has always worked. We define what is moral and what is justice and it will be fucking moral and justice for us to wipe you out. Stay behind us and we might even consider friendship"

That's the truth and you know it. There's no point for China or anyone else to cry over this fact because every super power that came did it and every super power that is to come will do it. Fair enough.


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## Godly Giraffe - King of the Uverworld (Aug 23, 2013)

Mael said:


> I was actually there for about two weeks this month.  I can certainly count a lot better looking women than I have out of the Chinese and Japanese that's for damn sure.  They're not as fat-faced or wide-faced as the Chinese and not as bony/mousey as the Japanese.
> 
> Case in point, Clara Lee. pek



Most have the longest legs and the best anatomical features. But there's still tons of mongoloid looking trash with neither the body nor the face to pull off something close to drawing male attention 

I sadly haven't seen many my age that didn't fit that bill since middle school. But I guess that's natural from hanging around my aunt and mother when it comes to an ubiquitous presence in my household.

Korea's still a margin ahead of the Filipinos and pretty much all other Asians as far as women go, but boy do they need to ban the boob jobs and the bush is a killer. Also, why do they hate Japan so but keep dying their hair?


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## Linkofone (Aug 23, 2013)

Mael said:


> Apparently with a temper tantrum of a five-year-old.



Apparently so, apparently. But you know what they say about dragons ...

Blah Blah Blah, Dragons, Blah blah blah, Fire, Blah Blah.

Also ... they have more Dragons and Missiles beneath the Great wall. 



Arishem said:


> The Red Dragon has rotten teeth and can barely fly, if at all.



Yep others still consider it a threat. 



Le M?le Dominant said:


> They really want their war with China



Let them ... I will watch the war from glorius Singapore while eating my Chicken Pinapple Lemon Rice.


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## Strauss (Aug 23, 2013)

Mael said:


> @Itachi the best: Congrats on sounding like a loon. You represent the kind of Libertarian nonsense that produces the double-standard seen so often in regards to American foreign policy.  Oh noes America is teh world police y u do that?  Then when shit hits the fan, America y u do nothing?  Give me a break with your long-winded crap about power projection and your lack of geopolitical knowledge.  It also reeks of a defeatism that basically says "yeah whatevs let China run rampant through Asia it's not my backyard."  That's the same kind of shit some people thought in 1939.  I believe Jeanette Rankin was one of them and thoroughly scorned at with good reason.
> 
> EDIT: You're clearly not American and you're clearly reading off some other brand of ignorant ideology.  I'm guessing you're European and probably a smarmy one at that.



I agree with what he said more or less, that US military activities are largely for the sake of financial speculators, not just in the armament/ private security business, but also for natural resources that happen to be abroad.  Vietnam is a really good example of the former, and the first Persian Gulf of the latter (unless you owned a large percentage of an oil company you probably wouldn't give a flying hoot about Iraq invading Kuwait).

Which is especially infuriating if you have a large portion of your financial resources taken away every year by the government to fund that horse shit.


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## Aging Boner (Aug 23, 2013)

Le M?le Dominant said:


> They really want their war with China



It may sound heartless and inhuman...but look what WW2 did for Japan economically; and look at Germany: number one European country single-handedly holding the EU together with sheer cash and leadership.

War sucks, but afterwards you get to rebuild a nation and birth a new culture.

In Germany's case they don't even want to think about violence anymore...they literally got beaten into being a near pacifist nation.

Japan pretty much only has a hard on these days because of China's antics, otherwise they were focused on economics for decades.

and don't front France, you know the next time you pick a fight you can't handle you'll come squealing to NATO (what Europeans call the US military) to bail you out, like we always will. No matter how much you hate us.


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Aug 23, 2013)

Aging Boner said:


> It may sound heartless and inhuman...but look what WW2 did for Japan economically; and look at Germany: number one European country single-handedly holding the EU together with sheer cash and leadership.
> 
> War sucks, but afterwards you get to rebuild a nation and birth a new culture.
> 
> ...



Lol, it's not only heartless and inhuman, it's very stupid. You try hard to justify wars  

I suppose Iraq and Afghanistan feel better after the war 

Ahahaha, you guys realllllly want your war against China. Lol nationalist warmongers


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## Mael (Aug 23, 2013)

Le M?le Dominant said:


> They really want their war with China





Le M?le Dominant said:


> Lol, it's not only heartless and inhuman, it's very stupid. You try hard to justify wars
> 
> I suppose Iraq and Afghanistan feel better after the war
> 
> Ahahaha, you guys realllllly want your war against China. Lol nationalist warmongers



Since you're not really smart in this, I'll educate you.

See, China is a new rival.  Geopolitics doesn't allow people to be nice.  Containment is not a declaration of war.  I repeat, containment is NOT a declaration of war.  And also let me shine some light on you.  The Philippines, Vietnam, Palau, etc., WANT the US to establish bases there.  They're sick of China's bullying.  But you look right past that don't you since it's not the mean ol' Amurkkkans right?

I know your stance.  I've seen it with Japan and Korea.  It's trash.



White Tiger said:


> Understood.
> 
> Its effectively a douche move made by a threatened super power.
> 
> ...



Ok then big shot explain what's all the ruckus with China's territorial claims eh?  Got an excuse for that?  Can you explain the Asian nations forming tighter bonds with the US instead of China even if the US is being a douche?  Got an excuse for that?



Strauss said:


> I agree with what he said more or less, that US military activities are largely for the sake of financial speculators, not just in the armament/ private security business, but also for natural resources that happen to be abroad.  Vietnam is a really good example of the former, and the first Persian Gulf of the latter (unless you owned a large percentage of an oil company you probably wouldn't give a flying hoot about Iraq invading Kuwait).
> 
> Which is especially infuriating if you have a large portion of your financial resources taken away every year by the government to fund that horse shit.





You're very short-sighted, aren't you?


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## Seto Kaiba (Aug 23, 2013)

Is Le Male really trying to call others nationalist? With those Francocentric episodes he has?


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## Garcher (Aug 23, 2013)

Aging Boner said:


> and don't front France, you know the next time you pick a fight you can't handle you'll come squealing to NATO (what Europeans call the US military) to bail you out, like we always will. No matter how much you hate us.



I made clear I don't hate americans in any way. If I did why would i be on a forum with so many americans? I don't blame anyone and every country has more or less it dark moments in history aswell as its dark side in present age.

 Probably every country would act the same if it was in your position. But like Spiderman said: With great power comes great responsibility.  and those who have the actual power in the U.S. use it for individual advantage.

The problem is there is no threat all. There is no fight in which Europe could be involved it couldn't handle it. The economic integrations make starting a war for a country with serious power impossible.

Maybe I'm just an idealist but i just want the world to be a better place at all. I could not care about this shit, too, because I'm not dircetly affected. Probably my country even benefits from your military bases because so the oil flows on


----------



## Mael (Aug 23, 2013)

Seto Kaiba said:


> Is Le Male really trying to call others nationalist? With those Francocentric episodes he has?



He just hates anything English-speaking.

Like even French musicians that have lyrics in English, Modjo and Madeon e.g.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Aug 23, 2013)

Mael said:


> He just hates anything English-speaking.
> 
> Like even French musicians that have lyrics in English, Modjo and Madeon e.g.



Completely uneducated on the China issue as well, I noticed.


----------



## Aging Boner (Aug 23, 2013)

Itachi the Best said:


> The problem is there is no threat all.
> 
> There is no fight in which Europe could be involved it couldn't handle it.
> 
> The economic integrations make starting a war for a country with serious power impossible.



1st sentence: Tell that to every Asian country that has a Chinese naval presence practically visible from their beaches.

2nd sentence: of course, the US has your backs...nobody will fuck with you. You can sleep easy.

3rd sentence: History tells us that human beings make the impossible possible. Cultures have literally disappeared over women, world wars started over misunderstandings, Nations starved to near extinction. And that's just Europeans mind you.

If you really think Globalization is the end of war you are in for a rude awakening my friend.


----------



## WT (Aug 23, 2013)

Mael said:


> Ok then big shot explain what's all the ruckus with China's territorial claims eh?  Got an excuse for that?  Can you explain the Asian nations forming tighter bonds with the US instead of China even if the US is being a douche?  Got an excuse for that?



Normally, if a hyena (China) is trying to overtake a lion (US), you'd side with the lion. However, we know very well that the lion has a better policy and is more tolerant towards others than the hyena is so that strengthens the bond. Its a very oversimplified analogy.


----------



## Mael (Aug 23, 2013)

Seto Kaiba said:


> Completely uneducated on the China issue as well, I noticed.



Dude he thinks the US runs South Korea and Japan like colonies.  It's moronic.


----------



## Le Mâle-Pensant (Aug 23, 2013)

Mael said:


> Since you're not really smart in this, I'll educate you.
> 
> See, China is a new rival.  Geopolitics doesn't allow people to be nice.  Containment is not a declaration of war.  I repeat, containment is NOT a declaration of war.  And also let me shine some light on you.  The Philippines, Vietnam, Palau, etc., WANT the US to establish bases there.  They're sick of China's bullying.  But you look right past that don't you since it's not the mean ol' Amurkkkans right?
> 
> I know your stance.  I've seen it with Japan and Korea.  It's trash.



Oh  ?? Is Aging Boner, your alternative account ??? 

You mix my comment with the comment of the others  Could you repeat once again that containment is NOT a declaration of war because I do not understand.........ooooh maybe because it's White Tiger that said that and not me 

Ah Meal, you know, it's funny the reaction of people when you just say

"They really want their war with China"

There is this guy Aging Boner that talk about the "benefit" of WWII as an answer lol and now you, the sinophobe. I also know your stance, hating China and the European now 

At least, there is an evolution if people admit their apprehension toward China since they call them "new rival" now.


Ahahahahahah NF

They really want their war with China.

Yeah, China, the new rival 




Seto Kaiba said:


> Is Le Male really trying to call others nationalist? With those Francocentric episodes he has?



You forget the word "warmongers"  and it make the difference


----------



## WT (Aug 23, 2013)

Le Male, give Mael a break. Dude's been through a lot of shit. Boston was his home town and it got bombed. He got prejudiced after that but he's a nice guy. Also, I think he's in his late 20's, unemployed or something to that effect. Life's tough. Don't want to push him, other wise, he'll become another Linkdarkside nutter. 

Mael, we're here for you :33


----------



## Le Mâle-Pensant (Aug 23, 2013)

Mael said:


> Dude he thinks the US runs South Korea and Japan like colonies.  It's moronic.



Well, it's a deformation of my opinion on the issue but I think everything is good to demonized those who don't think like you 



White Tiger said:


> Le Male, give Mael a break. Dude's been through a lot of shit. Boston was his home town and it got bombed. He got prejudiced after that but he's a nice guy. Also, I think he's in his late 20's, unemployed or something to that effect. Life's tough. Don't want to push him, other wise, he'll become another Linkdarkside nutter.
> 
> Mael, we're here for you :33



But I have nothing against him, it's him who doesn't like me . It's him that don't like my comments and my opinions. I didn't comments his opinion on the issue.
I don't know why he go off topic with my opinions on French artists 

At least about Japan/South Korea, it's a little bit linked but he deform my opinion....


----------



## Mael (Aug 23, 2013)

Aging Boner is Raging Boner from years past.


----------



## Mael (Aug 23, 2013)

White Tiger said:


> Le Male, give Mael a break. Dude's been through a lot of shit. Boston was his home town and it got bombed. He got prejudiced after that but he's a nice guy. Also, I think he's in his late 20's, unemployed or something to that effect. Life's tough. Don't want to push him, other wise, he'll become another Linkdarkside nutter.
> 
> Mael, we're here for you :33



Dude, you laughed at a transgender's brutal murder.

Fuck you man.  I'll spam the drone footage just for you.


----------



## Le Mâle-Pensant (Aug 23, 2013)

Mael said:


> Aging Boner is Raging Boner from years past.



First time I see him. Maybe I don't spend enough time on this forum.


----------



## Aging Boner (Aug 23, 2013)

this board is pretty educational for me...essentially the average western Europeans' stance is "_Let China gobble up all other Asian countries. It doesn't concern us._"

wow man, thanks for spreading your culture through various empires in centuries past...but I think we'll take it from here ok?


----------



## Illairen (Aug 23, 2013)

As long as there is no central world government shit like this will happen over and over again and history will just repeat itself. The concept of countries which operate in an anarchic system didn`t change that much since the peleponnesian war.  All countries always try to maximize their power. 
We can only hope that at one point in the far future the anarchic system will be replaced by an hierarchical system which means that a world government owns all military power.


----------



## Kafuka de Vil (Aug 23, 2013)

The America wanking in this thread is hilarious. 



Aging Boner said:


> It may sound heartless and inhuman...but look what WW2 did for Japan economically; and look at Germany: number one European country single-handedly holding the EU together with sheer cash and leadership.
> 
> War sucks, but afterwards you get to rebuild a nation and birth a new culture.
> 
> In Germany's case they don't even want to think about violence anymore...they literally got beaten into being a near pacifist nation.



It’s a shame your version of Germany doesn’t exist: it’d be preferable to the abomination currently harbouring in the centre of Europe. Oh please, Germany isn't ‘holding together' the EU: it’s clustering a wreck - too afraid to let it and the influence it’s amassed with it go. It and to a lesser extent France overwhelmingly created the problems currently afflicting the Eurozone and the EU.

>Introduce Euro currency and European Central Bank
>Rig board with lots of German economists
>Set inflation rate to German inflation rate
>Allow neighbours to borrow cash from your banks at your interest rates
>Don't transfer payments to less efficient economies
>Exports grow
>Catastrophe
>Blame everyone else

The biggest post-WWII mistake was allowing West and East Germany to unify, Thatcher was right about that. And Germans aren’t that sorry about WWII either. Just the usual condolences peddled out by its feigning leaders.


----------



## Aging Boner (Aug 23, 2013)

MbS said:


> The America wanking in this thread is hilarious.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


who would you suggest should set the standard for European administration at the moment then?

I vote Italy...they had a good run back when Rome was running the show.


----------



## Kafuka de Vil (Aug 23, 2013)

Aging Boner said:


> who would you suggest should set the standard for European administration at the moment then?
> 
> I vote Italy...they had a good run back when Rome was running the show.



I'd go with the UK since its economy expanded at the same rate as Germany's, equalling the growth it recorded in the third quarter of last year and is one of the European countries safely out of recession.

That and if you want a democratic accountable institution you turn to the UK. If you want democracy you don't turn to Germany - you look the fuck away and keep on looking away.

1st Reich: Holy Roman Empire - Absolute autocracy
2nd Reich: German Empire - Absolute monarchy
3rd Recih: Nazi Germany - Fascist Dictatorship
East Germany - Communist Dictatorship

As you can see, Germans aren't well averse with democratic principles and accountability: and it shows with their repeated heavy handed approach and failure with the Eurozone/EU.


----------



## WT (Aug 23, 2013)

Mael said:


> Dude, you laughed at a transgender's brutal murder.
> 
> Fuck you man.  I'll spam the drone footage just for you.


----------



## Aging Boner (Aug 23, 2013)

MbS said:


> I'd go with the UK since its economy expanded at the same rate as Germany's, equalling the growth it recorded in the third quarter of last year.
> 
> That and if you want a democratic accountable institution you turn to the UK. If you want democracy you don't turn to Germany - you look the fuck away and keep on looking away.
> 
> ...


heh, I suppose it is smart to choose the leader who wants absolutely nothing to do with the thing he's leading...keeps him honest.

But then you got that whole currency issue..UK doesn't even want the Euro, they'd sooner drift off into the Atlantic ocean.

No no, you gotta pick a mainland country, someone who wants it.

Greece maybe?  They started this whole Democracy schtick...


----------



## Linkofone (Aug 23, 2013)

Perhaps China needs to do something drastic. 

If only the Rower were here, he'd know what to do!


----------



## Savior (Aug 23, 2013)

Is this surprising to anyone? The U.S. has been working on surrounding China for many years.


----------



## Le Mâle-Pensant (Aug 23, 2013)

....fortunately, there will be no wars  just haine, pure haine.


----------



## Mael (Aug 23, 2013)

Aging Boner said:


> this board is pretty educational for me...essentially the average western Europeans' stance is "_Let China gobble up all other Asian countries. It doesn't concern us._"
> 
> wow man, thanks for spreading your culture through various empires in centuries past...but I think we'll take it from here ok?



Europeans have started to bother me as of late.  They flaunt the socialist policies they get because they had an American security blanket to allow them not to spend as much on defense since 1945, yet when the economy is in the shitter their recovery is mind-blowing in stagnancy since they can't seem to reach any sort of deal and they're too compassionate to NOT allow poor and incompetent members such as Greece in.  They think they know foreign peace policy despite causing both World Wars.  They've been responsible for 90% of the shit going down in Africa and SE Asia, the French in Vietnam ignoring Eisenhower's suggestion to let Ho Chi Minh get his independence e.g.  They think talking down to people works only to have Putin time and time again laugh at them, leading me to believe Europe still fears Russia very much and rightly so.  I think only the Brits have some room to talk as they've wisely strayed away from half the EU's policies.


[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nf0ZjsNB02A[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Savior (Aug 23, 2013)

If the U.S. wants to continue with their hegemony then that's their choice. Too bad that tens of millions of Americans are living below the poverty line along with the growing debt they have. Is their military dominance really worth that? For those in power, sure. For the rest, not so much.

Obama was all talk before he got elected but he has fallen right in line with everyone else.


----------



## Aging Boner (Aug 23, 2013)

Le M?le Dominant said:


> ....fortunately, there will be no wars  just haine, pure haine.


Don't haine, man, it's bad for the soul.

Blame Lafayette, we'd prolly still be British lapdogs if it weren't for him...why you think we always pull your asses out of the fire? it ain't cuz you invented French Fries.



Mael said:


> Europeans have started to bother me as of late.  They flaunt the socialist policies they get because they had an American security blanket to allow them not to spend as much on defense since 1945, yet when the economy is in the shitter their recovery is mind-blowing in stagnancy since they can't seem to reach any sort of deal and they're too compassionate to NOT allow poor and incompetent members such as Greece in.  They think they know foreign peace policy despite causing both World Wars.  They've been responsible for 90% of the shit going down in Africa and SE Asia, the French in Vietnam ignoring Eisenhower's suggestion to let Ho Chi Minh get his independence e.g.  They think talking down to people works only to have Putin time and time again laugh at them, leading me to believe Europe still fears Russia very much and rightly so.  I think only the Brits have some room to talk as they've wisely strayed away from half the EU's policies.




it's like they live in this strange fantasy bubble bought at the expense of our military hegemony...


And Putin would have reassembled the Soviet empire were we not around. Europe would have let that shit happen.

And the funny thing is, the shit that Russia has pulled makes the Nazi genocide look like My Little Pony. 

I seriously don't get the thought process going on over there...it's like they aren't aware of their own history.


----------



## Mael (Aug 23, 2013)

Savior said:


> If the U.S. wants to continue with their hegemony then that's their choice. Too bad that tens of millions of Americans are living below the poverty line along with the growing debt they have. Is their military dominance really worth that? For those in power, sure. For the rest, not so much.
> 
> Obama was all talk before he got elected but he has fallen right in line with everyone else.



Yes, yes it is, because that means economic power remains on your side.  You need to read up with Machiavelli and Clausewitz and learn how military can be a great thing when applied correctly to one's rivals.  China is trying to gobble up all it can and ruin it to the ground.

If anything, this antagonism has already done good things, as it's convinced some manufacturers to return home to the US and albeit small create thousands of jobs just in a short while.  Things take time.  You don't let your shield down to nurse one wound while your enemies still have swords drawn.


----------



## Strauss (Aug 23, 2013)

Mael said:


> You're very short-sighted, aren't you?



How can I be anything else, when you neglected to dispense your superior wisdom in your response?  Care to explain why I should take a leap of faith and believe a group of people with notoriously, historically poor moral and strategic judgement, that there is an enemy threatening enough to merit 800 billion dollars a year?


----------



## Kafuka de Vil (Aug 23, 2013)

Aging Boner said:


> heh, I suppose it is smart to choose the leader who wants absolutely nothing to do with the thing he's leading...keeps him honest.
> 
> But then you got that whole currency issue..UK doesn't even want the Euro, they'd sooner drift off into the Atlantic ocean.
> 
> ...



Common misconception. The UK?s desire to join was rebuffed repeatedly until finally joining in 75.

But what the EU has mutated into is not what the UK (or most other European countries for that matter) signed up for, and has repeatedly been given little opportunity to do something about it. Why accommodate yourself to an institution that doesn?t have your interest at heart?


----------



## Le Mâle-Pensant (Aug 23, 2013)

Aging Boner said:


> Don't haine, man, it's bad for the soul.
> 
> Blame Lafayette, we'd prolly still be British lapdogs if it weren't for him...why you think we always pull your asses out of the fire? it ain't cuz you invented French Fries.



Lol, this obsession with the nationality of your interlocutor 

....and still off topic 

This thread is about ???.....oh yeah, US military encircling China.....


----------



## Mael (Aug 23, 2013)

Strauss said:


> How can I be anything else, when you neglected to dispense your superior wisdom in your response?  Care to explain why I should take a leap of faith and believe a group of people with notoriously, historically poor moral and strategic judgement, that there is an enemy threatening enough to merit 800 billion dollars a year?



Because I laid the same thing out on Itachi the best which could subtly include you.  It also shows you're an absolute sucker or haven't been reading China's continued trolling in Asia.

No, what I get outta you is this "leave Asia to the Asians" brand of isolationism that belongs back in 1920.


----------



## WT (Aug 23, 2013)

In all honesty, I'm sorta glad that the US is keeping a check on China. I don't like where this is going either.

I'd easily prefer the US over China, Russia and definitely above Wahabi/Salafis and other mentally ill people (who wouldn't), not UK though, the British got it right. Heck, I know its began but if I was in charge of Pakistan, I'd desperately try to reform the sort of broken alliance with the US. There's room for improvement in Pakistan in terms of economic development. Give bids to US companies and this'l help them improve their profits. This will strongly help the US economy, which will then help everyone else.

I do give the US a lot of shit, but they're clearly a good ally to have.


----------



## Savior (Aug 23, 2013)

Mael said:


> Yes, yes it is, because that means economic power remains on your side.  You need to read up with Machiavelli and Clausewitz and learn how military can be a great thing when applied correctly to one's rivals.  China is trying to gobble up all it can and ruin it to the ground.
> 
> If anything, this antagonism has already done good things, as it's convinced some manufacturers to return home to the US and albeit small create thousands of jobs just in a short while.  Things take time.  You don't let your shield down to nurse one wound while your enemies still have swords drawn.




Nobody is arguing that it's a bad idea to surround China. The sheer number of bases is quite ridiculous. The technological and logistical edge that the U.S. military has is very sizable.

You're the same one patting China on the back for not curtailing human rights when it means that Muslims get shafted but now you're against them. Make up your mind.

A few thousand jobs compared to the price that was paid for all the military infrastructure etc. That's a pretty bad tradeoff.


----------



## Kafuka de Vil (Aug 23, 2013)

White Tiger said:


> I do give the US a lot of shit, but they're clearly a good ally to have.



Haha, Whitey.

The US doesn't have allies, just interests. That's why it treats them like shit and has unequal treaties with them.


----------



## WT (Aug 23, 2013)

MbS said:


> Haha, Whitey.
> 
> The US doesn't have allies, just interests. That's why it treats them like shit and has unequal treaties with them.



That's what I meant.

There are no allies in this world, everyone knows it. Only interests.


----------



## Strauss (Aug 23, 2013)

Mael said:


> Because I laid the same thing out on Itachi the best which could subtly include you.  It also shows you're an absolute sucker or haven't been reading China's continued trolling in Asia.
> 
> No, what I get outta you is this "leave Asia to the Asians" brand of isolationism that belongs back in 1920.



IMO things are better with manufacturing jobs in Asia.  Everything is a lot cheaper than if they were made in the US.  Secondly, the growing trend is for manufacturing to be robotized (to a large extent), which makes a complicated scheme to create manufacturing jobs short-sighted.  Most C_O's of large publicly-traded companies will tell you that robotized manufacturing is the future, even more than it's the present.


----------



## Kafuka de Vil (Aug 23, 2013)

White Tiger said:


> That's what I meant.
> 
> There are no allies in this world, everyone knows it. Only interests.



It takes a real shit bag country to make America look the better - but China manages that.


----------



## Mael (Aug 23, 2013)

MbS said:


> Haha, Whitey.
> 
> The US doesn't have allies, just interests. That's why it treats them like shit and has unequal treaties with them.



Welcome to every big nation since the dawn of time, MbS.  Remember India?  Think smarter, not harder.


----------



## Blue (Aug 23, 2013)

White Tiger said:


> Understood.
> 
> Its effectively a douche move made by a threatened super power.
> 
> Its the US's way of saying, "We're for peace and we wish you and your people peace but don't you dare try and fucking over take us because we don't want to be second. If you do try, it will be extremely unfortunate that we'll have to unleash hell on you but hey that's the way nature has always worked. We define what is moral and what is justice and it will be fucking moral and justice for us to wipe you out. Stay behind us and we might even consider friendship"


That's right.

That's exactly right.



> That's the truth and you know it.


Yes!

Except I wouldn't call it a douche move. Like, if you see some 300lb fat monster come stomping down your aisle at on the airliner, are you going to take the aisle seat and hope he's not a big enough asshole to ask you to move over?
Yes. Yes, you are.


----------



## Savior (Aug 23, 2013)

MbS said:


> Haha, Whitey.
> 
> The US doesn't have allies, just interests. That's why it treats them like shit and has unequal treaties with them.



Japan even???


----------



## Kafuka de Vil (Aug 23, 2013)

Mael said:


> Welcome to every big nation since the dawn of time, MbS.  Remember India?  Think smarter, not harder.



The same India that's now the world's 9th largest economy and on the path to becoming a superpower? Thank the UK  for that.



Savior said:


> Japan even???



You mean forcibly occupying Okinawa? Well, yeah.


----------



## Garcher (Aug 23, 2013)

Americans, stop hypocrizy, pls. You are the only who think your wars are justified. It might be hard to accept for you, but you aren't "the good one's" and the other are "the bade one's". That's just subjective. You think you have the right of military attendance in other countries and others not? You made yourself indepence because of the military attendance of the Brits in the U.S., what exactly differs you from them now? Your whole currency system even exists yet because of wars - everyone has to trade oil in dollar, else they are fucked. ( petro-dollar ya know)

It's unbelievable. Accept that the arm industrie has an huge influence in your policy. Hell, a 5 year old boy got a "child-rifle" to birthday and shoots his 2 year old sister with it? Really, and you forbid Kinder suprise eggs because you think that they are dangerous. You cry about the many shooting rampages? Maybe you should aggrivate your gun control laws! BUT NO, THAT WOULD MEAN LESS MONEY FOR ARM INDUSTRY.

It's the same with your wars, it's all about the money. As they cold war stopped you needed a new reason to justify that RIDICULOUS summs you spend on military in spit of the incredible government debt. So you maintaned 700! Bases in 130! countries in order to maintain peace - and then after 9/11 suitable you had the terrorism and now the EVIL china, which has simply so much trouble on the domestic front, that it simply do ANYTHING ( infact you just fear it because of its incredibly dynamic economy ). Your whole defense department needs so much fuel on day like whole Sweden! Where does it come from? Isn't it suitable you can attack the region with oil reserves because they are all terrorists and nobody cares? It's said you would withdraw the Iraq, but when you look at embassy there and the huge military bases around it you see they weren't buildt to withdraw oneday. INFACT your government already confirmed that there will remain a rest-contingent!

If the EU is a clustering of wreck, what's the US? Your own financial crisis IS worse than ours. Of course in american medias this isn't mentioned so you can flame me here with all your ignorance, but It's just a question of time till the West isn't dominant force on earth - he was it the last 500 years but now others will take the lead again, you struggle against time.


----------



## Mael (Aug 23, 2013)

Savior said:


> Japan even???



The US backs Japan in the Senkaku dispute behind the scenes, so yeah I'd say they're not fucking Japan over.  Same applies to South Korea.


----------



## Mael (Aug 23, 2013)

Itachi the Best said:


> Americans, stop hypocrizy, pls. You are the only who think your wars are justified. It might be hard to accept for you, but you aren't "the good one's" and the other are "the bade one's". That's just subjective. You think you have the right of military attendance in other countries and others not? You made yourself indepence because of the military attendance of the Brits in the U.S., what exactly differs you from them now? Your whole currency system even exists yet because of wars - everyone has to trade oil in dollar, else they are fucked. ( petro-dollar ya know)
> 
> It's unbelievable. Accept that the arm industrie has an huge influence in your policy. Hell, a 5 year old boy got a "child-rifle" to birthday and shoots his 2 year old sister with it? Really, and you forbid Kinder suprise eggs because you think that they are dangerous. You cry about the many shooting rampages? Maybe you should aggrivate your gun control laws! BUT NO, THAT WOULD MEAN LESS MONEY FOR ARM INDUSTRY.
> 
> ...



[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDoIM1dRzGo[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Le Mâle-Pensant (Aug 23, 2013)

White Tiger said:


> That's what I meant.
> 
> There are no allies in this world, everyone knows it. Only interests.



And each country protect it interest, China, Iran or Isreal despite being controversial are not different.


----------



## Aging Boner (Aug 23, 2013)

Le M?le Dominant said:


> Lol, this obsession with the nationality of your *interlocutor*
> 
> ....and still off topic
> 
> This thread is about ???.....oh yeah, US military encircling China.....



look Dominant Male i can't hang with your fancy vernacular...you got me looking up words in French AND English.

ALL i'm saying is don't be so short sighted when it comes to US foreign policy. Yeah, we're greedy. Yeah, we have a sordid history particularly in South America and more recently in the middle East.

But compared to just about every other prominent or formerly prominent nation on Earth, we are practically saints.

China can't just go around kicking down their neighbors doors because a few thousand years ago the Yellow Emperor held sway over Heaven and Earth and now they want it all back...is that ok, or should we just say fuck it, take it all?


----------



## Savior (Aug 23, 2013)

I find the Chinese strategy to be quite idiotic. Who are their allies? North Korea?
They are making enemies with everyone in their region and the U.S. simply loves that. Going it alone is foolish. 
It's difficult to really support or feel sympathy for them. The way the government runs things. The way society there operates. I criticize the U.S. a lot but it's eons better than China.


----------



## Mael (Aug 23, 2013)

They're buying Africa.


----------



## Le Mâle-Pensant (Aug 23, 2013)

Aging Boner said:


> look Dominant Male i can't hang with your fancy vernacular...you got me looking up words in French AND English.
> 
> ALL i'm saying is don't be so short sighted when it comes to US foreign policy. Yeah, we're greedy. Yeah, we have a sordid history particularly in South America and more recently in the middle East.
> 
> ...



But I don't comment US policy...in fact, I didn't really talked about US policy in this thread or even about the US. I started talk about NF people and their stance.....you know....."They really want their war with China". 

And it was very interesting to see how you guys answers and react. I especially liked those who believe they are superior to the others and do not hesitate to be arrogant  but it's always the same guys so....

Each nation defend it interest but there is not a good and bad interest in fact. It's really depend theside you defend. In Asia, the US defend it interest or I should say it commerial partners locked in their sphere of influence and at the same time threat it's economic rival. China want to extend it sphere of influence and lock the surrounding countries with them. They want to be the regional super power as well.
There are nothing good or bad in each case if you are neutral.


----------



## Garcher (Aug 23, 2013)

Mael said:


> [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDoIM1dRzGo[/YOUTUBE]



This reaction simply shows you don't realize how ridicolous your own policy is, you laugh about it yourself, It's unbelievable. I really look forward to the awkward moment Americans realize it and come back to reality. You still think you are informed by your COMPLETLY INDEPENDENT medias.



> "People live their lives bound by what they accept as correct and true. That?s how they define ?reality?. But what does it mean to be ?correct? or ?true?? Merely vague concepts ? their ?reality? may all be a mirage. Can we consider them to simply be living in their own world, shaped by their beliefs?"


- The King


----------



## Mael (Aug 23, 2013)

Dude I have some questions for you.

1. Where are you from?
2. The hell are you smoking?
3. Where can I get it?


----------



## Le Mâle-Pensant (Aug 23, 2013)

Well, I agree with the idea that " it's all about the money".

If I can say something about military industry that fi with the topic, it's that the US can make lot of money on the tension between China and the South Eastern Asia. Their military spending is rising and their main supplier will be the US. We can maybe make money on this as well.....

it's all about the money


----------



## Mael (Aug 23, 2013)

Le M?le Dominant said:


> Well, I agree with the idea that " it's all about the money".
> 
> If I can say something about military industry that fi with the topic, it's that the US can make lot of money on the tension between China and the South Eastern Asia. Their military spending is rising and their main supplier will be the US. We can maybe make money on this as well.....



Which is odd considering how the bigger money-makers, Japan and South Korea, use a lot of their OWN tech.  For example when I was in Seoul, I literally saw a convoy of tanks being hauled on the highway out of Seoul and towards Taegu or Yeoju, the K-1 tanks actually that they took on themselves.  The K-2 is now going to be purely Korean-made and is a thing of beauty.

Japan's new carrier is also their own doing.

There is some profit here, but really, this is about influence to which the US is winning with the smaller Asian nations, ironically Vietnam, though it has to be known China and Vietnam have hated each other for over a thousand years.


----------



## Aging Boner (Aug 23, 2013)

from what i've read Japan is itching to flex some of that Nippon Banzai...at least the current government is.

 I dunno how that will sit with the herbivorous males though.


----------



## IchLiebe (Aug 23, 2013)

Aging Boner said:


> you better hope not whitey.
> 
> The American southerner ain't got shit on Chinese racism.



Im deeply offended.


America is going to be top dog for the next thousand years. We are the strongest, as long as we keep building, repel attacks, and invest then we should stay top dog as even a country like China who has had the biggest economic boom is still overwhelming inferior to the US. Oh but they have a huge number of people in their military. And that matters why. I believe the general concession nowadays is to just bomb the fuck out of the country with no boots on the ground.

Not to mention or main allies are holding our hands in everything we do. The only country that can challenge us in 100 years...alone, none. Brazil, India, Russia, Pakistan are going to be the only ones able to challenge us. And then they have to worry about their unfriendly neighbors attacking them or aiding the US and its allies in their conflict.

The only way the US can truly be defeated is to invade with multiple countries in a surprise attack followed by paratroopers, and if they are desperate they can EMP N.America knocking out a bunch of electronic systems. But that will start a space war and nuclear war something no one wants to do against America we will wipe you off the map. And I know where I live that everyone has a gun everyone.


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Aug 23, 2013)

Mael said:


> Which is odd considering how the bigger money-makers, Japan and South Korea, use a lot of their OWN tech.  For example when I was in Seoul, I literally saw a convoy of tanks being hauled on the highway out of Seoul and towards Taegu or Yeoju, the K-1 tanks actually that they took on themselves.  The K-2 is now going to be purely Korean-made and is a thing of beauty.
> 
> Japan's new carrier is also their own doing.
> 
> There is some profit here, but really, this is about influence to which the US is winning with the smaller Asian nations, ironically Vietnam, though it has to be known China and Vietnam have hated each other for over a thousand years.



I don't thinking about Japan and South Korea but the others like Vitenam, Philippine or Singapore. Miitaries industries can make a lot of money.

China is also a potential market but it depend if we put an end to the arm embargo. At least, it's an opportunity for Russia military industry.


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## Mider T (Aug 23, 2013)

You can't have MbS without spiteful revisionism.

Great tactic here btw, containment.  Every nation has existing bases are practically begging for the US to come make a presence there and China won't try anything slick.  Not to mention bases foster friendship.  The base in India is particularly strategic.


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## Garcher (Aug 23, 2013)

If bases would foster friendship, why there is no base of another country in the U.S. lol


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## Mael (Aug 23, 2013)

Itachi the Best said:


> If bases would foster friendship, why there is no base of another country in the U.S. lol



You haven't answered my questions, kiddo.


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## Mider T (Aug 23, 2013)

Itachi the Best said:


> If bases would foster friendship, why there is no base of another country in the U.S. lol



There doesn't need to be.  The U.S. is the most powerful nation in the history of the World.  It can do far more than protect itself.

Besides, we have allied militaries train and even stop over here all the time.


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## Greedy master (Aug 23, 2013)

Usa's new strategy is a proxy stargate? China will simply build some spore crawlers and fend it off.


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## Mider T (Aug 23, 2013)

China won't if China is smart.  China won't if China cares about China.


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Aug 23, 2013)

Mider T said:


> China won't if China is smart.  China won't if China cares about China.



Nobody will do something if tall each side stay smart. An armed conflict between these two countries will really trouble the world........economically.


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## Mider T (Aug 23, 2013)

Both countries aren't in the wrong here, it's clear.  One country makes provocative moves, the more powerful country makes highly visible moves to make sure nothing comes of the first country's moves, hopefully the first country settles down.

I'm sure 1930s Europe would've liked a more powerful ally to contain Germany.


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## Garcher (Aug 23, 2013)

Mider T said:


> There doesn't need to be.  The U.S. is the most powerful nation in the history of the World.  It can do far more than protect itself.
> 
> Besides, we have allied militaries train and even stop over here all the time.



Tell me against what thread EU countries couldn't defend themselves? Russians  ? They are completly overestimated.

The U.S was now a few decades 1# but now other countries catching up while your government goes on making depts and conducting wars so the fuse doesn't die out. Other countries were able to able to maintain their dominance much longer.


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Aug 23, 2013)

Mider T said:


> Both countries aren't in the wrong here, it's clear.  One country makes provocative moves, the more powerful country makes highly visible moves to make sure nothing comes of the first country's moves, hopefully the first country settles down.
> 
> I'm sure 1930s Europe would've liked a more powerful ally to contain Germany.



It's all about perspective. I'm sure Europe would've like a powerful ally to contain the Roman Empire as well.
But China is neither Nazi Germany nor the Roman Empire.

In the eyes of Chinese, it could be: One country makes "legitimate" moves, the more powerful country makes "provocative" moves to make sure the first country stop it "legitimate" moves. 

It's all about perspective.


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## Mider T (Aug 23, 2013)

^The HRE pretty much controlled Europe through other countries' monarchies so it really wouldn't have mattered.  Regardless, we're making sure China doesn't continue it's belligerence before it's too late to act.  It's beneficial to it's neighbors simply because China's military is huge, so it's large front could potentially be filled on all ends.



Itachi the Best said:


> Tell me against what thread EU countries couldn't defend themselves? Russians  ? They are completly overestimated.
> 
> The U.S was now a few decades 1# but now other countries catching up while your government goes on making depts and conducting wars so the fuse doesn't die out. Other countries were able to able to maintain their dominance much longer.



Not sure why you said EU instead of European countries, but think about when those bases were built.  Most bases now are in the former Axis powers.  Certain other countries like England, Spain, and Iceland, invited the U.S. military to use their bases, so they aren't ours we just have a large presence there.  The last few bases are in countries that were badly bombed in WWII, those bases were to help the rebuilding effort.
The U.S. is still as powerful as it's ever been so I dunno what you're referring with making "depts" and conducting wars and all that.  A weak or declining nation would not and could not conduct a war.

Dude, if you don't understand how geopolitics works, don't puff out your chest and act like a jerk.  Ask questions, nobody is going to knock for it.


----------



## Mael (Aug 23, 2013)

Itachi the Best said:


> Tell me against what thread EU countries couldn't defend themselves? Russians  ? They are completly overestimated.
> 
> The U.S was now a few decades 1# but now other countries catching up while your government goes on making depts and conducting wars so the fuse doesn't die out. Other countries were able to able to maintain their dominance much longer.



Ok NOW I know you're trolling.  Good effort though.

You must be European to say such stupid things.


----------



## Le Mâle-Pensant (Aug 23, 2013)

Mael said:


> You must be European to say such stupid things.



Meal, stop this anti European thing, it makes you similar to Mbs and her anti Americanism....


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## Mael (Aug 23, 2013)

Le M?le Dominant said:


> Meal, stop this anti European thing, it makes you similar to Mbs and her anti Americanism....



The context is that he must be European to say that apparently the EU is capable of tackling Russia.  That's what I'm saying, not Europeans as a whole are stupid.  You all may be some things, but retarded isn't completely one of them.


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## Mider T (Aug 23, 2013)

Le M?le Dominant said:


> In the eyes of Chinese, it could be: One country makes "legitimate" moves, the more powerful country makes "provocative" moves to make sure the first country stop it "legitimate" moves.
> 
> It's all about perspective.



Just saw this edit.

"Perspective" isn't a good excuse for such behavior.  China has repeatedly made outrageous claims of territory, one of the most frequent factors in history to go to war over, and ignored the countries who's claims to the territory have been authenticated.  This is not arguable.  In the case of the U.S., picture it as the older brother to China who is telling it to "knock it off before there's problems".


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## Mael (Aug 23, 2013)

When China starts thinking it's always owned Okinawa, they're getting what's coming to them.


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## Griever (Aug 23, 2013)

Itachi the Best said:


> If bases would foster friendship, why there is no base of another country in the U.S. lol



For what purpose?. 

Are the Brits planning an invasion of Canada?.
Are the Spaniards planning an invasion of Mexico?. 
Is America on the precipice of war with Mexico and Canada?. 

What possible reason is there for another nation to have a base on US soil?, there is none. It's not like America can't take care of it's own shit if Canada or Mexico decided to mess around, they'd pretty much get get blasted into Oblivion if they started shit with the US and don't think they don't know it.
Aside from that, it wouldn't happen anyways, again there is no reason for a base it would just be an absolute waste of money pure and simple.


----------



## Golden Circle (Aug 23, 2013)

Mael said:


> When China starts thinking it's always owned Okinawa, they're getting what's coming to them.


Yeah, same here. I'm pretty much on the same side as jp. We and they have helped each other out enough over the last 50 years for us to give China the almighty finger () if China ever decides to get serious.


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Aug 23, 2013)

Mael said:


> The context is that he must be European to say that apparently the EU is capable of tackling Russia.  That's what I'm saying, not Europeans as a whole are stupid.  You all may be some things, but retarded isn't completely one of them.



It's judging a person based on his origins. Tsss, you must be white to write such thing....... 

Don't judge people and their opinion because of their nationality. It's generalization. Try to avoid it as much as you can.



Mider T said:


> Just saw this edit.
> 
> "Perspective" isn't a good excuse for such behavior.  China has repeatedly made *outrageous* claims of territory, one of the most frequent factors in history to go to war over, and ignored the countries who's claims to the territory have been authenticated.  This is not arguable.  In the case of the U.S., picture it as the older brother to China who is telling it to "knock it off before there's problems".



No, it's not about find an excuse or something. It's just that everything is not just white and black. From an angle to an other, you don't see the same thing. I bolded the word "outrageous" because it reveal the angle you see the situation. 
In the case of the US, you even show me your angle by telling me I should picture it. 
My point was that from an other eye, the situation is not seen the same way. A chinese wouldn't come with the same opinion.



Griever said:


> For what purpose?.
> 
> Are the Brits planning an invasion of Canada?.
> Are the Spaniards planning an invasion of Mexico?.
> ...



I don't think Italy, Germany or Spain are under threat as well. No, the bases are here to extend US military field of action and nt to protect these countries. If the British, for any reason would want their troops there, I suppose they could pay the US for a base.....you know Agentina these days .....


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## Mael (Aug 23, 2013)

Then tell him to stop posting idiotic theories.


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## eurytus (Aug 23, 2013)

The rise of china actually makes it easier for the US to increase their military presence in the asia pacific cos countries like Japan, Korea and Philippines are uncomfortable with the rise of china. better the devil you know than the one you don't know.


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## Aging Boner (Aug 23, 2013)

Itachi the Best said:


> Tell me against what thread EU countries couldn't defend themselves? Russians  ? They are completly overestimated.


Europe would have a tough time coordinating an attack on Iran, let alone defeating them.

The only reason your undoubtedly comfortable and culturally rich western European nation can even say this is because you are under the American umbrella of protection. (the umbrella has a cute nickname too, "NATO")

If we ever decided to simply pack it up and move to Mars don't doubt that within the week Putin himself would walk onto the battlefield and singlehandedly drop 2 meteors onto the heads of the European Alliance forces.

oh, and within the year everyone still left alive in nuclear wasteland Asia would be speaking or learning Mandarin...or else.

anyone who doesn't think Putin and China are predatory is just kidding themselves.


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## ExoSkel (Aug 23, 2013)

Problem with China is that they are completely buttfucking retarded when it comes to playing politics with her surrounding nations. This is probably the only reason why their influence will have limits, while American influence over Asia-Pacific will get more stronger over the time. China's only real ace in the hole over her surrounding nations is their economical trading partnership. Nothing more, nothing less.

China's biggest enemy is China itself.


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## KidTony (Aug 24, 2013)

Can one of you military types explain to me this air-sea battle strategy i keep hearing so much about.


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## Havoc (Aug 24, 2013)

We should just take over the world already.


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## Island (Aug 24, 2013)

KidTony said:


> Can one of you military types explain to me this air-sea battle strategy i keep hearing so much about.


From my understanding, it's more or less an extension on idea that aerial and naval superiority prevail in modern warfare. The key difference is that it's supposed to be a lot more flexible than traditional strategies which involved building gigantic bases, filling them up with men and equipment, and then using them to deter enemy attacks. Instead, it focuses on coordinating with allies so that in the event that one of the major bases (the example they used was Guam) was destroyed, the US could operate from lesser bases to attack the enemy and disable their capacity to continue attacking them. Then, when the enemy is unable to counter-attack, we proceed to beat them down with a combination of aerial and naval superiority, blockading and bombarding their cities, that whole routine.

More or less, instead of these gigantic bases that are going to get destroyed with a couple good missiles, you have a bunch of smaller ones spread out across an area, in this case, the Pacific. China, or whoever attacks, can bomb Guam and Okinawa to the ground, but they can't destroy every airfield between Seoul and Sydney.

I'm sure one of the actual military junkies will be able to tell you more and/or correct me, but that's what I got from it.


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## Mider T (Aug 24, 2013)

The concept is very simple, but


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## Garcher (Aug 24, 2013)

Aging Boner said:


> Europe would have a tough time coordinating an attack on Iran, let alone defeating them.
> 
> The only reason your undoubtedly comfortable and culturally rich western European nation can even say this is because you are under the American umbrella of protection. (the umbrella has a cute nickname too, "NATO")
> 
> ...



Iran gets defeated by Jews anyway. :

Again, you see more danger than there actually is. Of course the European militaries are not very efficient in comparison to yours, in fact we have less "firepower per dollar/euro". But don't forget the EU isn't a foderal state like the U.S., every country has its own military. And for example Germany, which has with no doubt a huge potential in arm industry, spends less than 10% of your budget on its military. So no one in Europa has modern drones for example but has Russia some of theme? No, most of their military is still remaining of the cold war. Huge numbers of tanks may look nice on the paper but they are mostly out-dated.

The U.S have a fundamental interest that there is no war in Europe. It's the biggest market after all. They have also in interest to keep everyone down who doesn't dances to their piping, for example Russia. It's ok, you are our cavalry, but please, stop thinking you help us in such situations just because you are nice. Keep in mind that the whole EU economic is equal to the U.S one's, you want us to be nice to you, too.


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Aug 24, 2013)

Aging Boner said:


> Europe would have a tough time coordinating an attack on Iran, let alone defeating them.
> 
> The only reason your undoubtedly comfortable and culturally rich western European nation can even say this is because you are under the American umbrella of protection. (the umbrella has a cute nickname too, "NATO")
> 
> ...



Iran is not really a threat for us. We don't need to attack them, Iran is a potential threat for Israel.....


There is not a real threat. For the rest, you play with history, without NATO, it's difficult to know how Europe would be right now. The military spending of countries and alliances would be different. You assume that European wouldn't act different without NATO. 

But well, why you even started to talk about Europe and NATO ?????? It's about China and the US right ???


Why you guys always try to derivative the discussion to something else ???? 

How you guys can't be seen as a predator by Chinese when you surrounding their country. With the recent military interventions in the middle east, you can expect them to doubt about your "peaceful" intention


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## Oldy (Aug 24, 2013)

Aging Boner said:


> If we ever decided to simply pack it up and move to Mars don't doubt that within the week Putin himself would walk onto the battlefield and singlehandedly drop 2 meteors onto the heads of the European Alliance forces.


If you think Russia or China have this kind of military capability you are severely deluded. CoD isn't reality, the only army in the world still capable of this kind of projection is the US military and even for them it would be a nightmare. Europe has too big a strategic depth, the days when you could wonder whether the CCCP's forces could take out Europe and meet at the Atlantic within weeks are long gone. And that's without talking about the UK and France's nuclear capability (and Germany would only need a few months to start producing nuke as well) which make conventional warfare pointless anyway.


Le M?le Dominant said:


> How you guys can't be seen as a predator by Chinese when you surrounding their country.


The enemy is stupid, he believes we are the enemy whereas it's him.


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## IchLiebe (Aug 24, 2013)

Itachi the Best said:


> Tell me against what* thread *EU countries couldn't defend themselves? Russians  ? They are completly overestimated.
> 
> The U.S was now a few decades 1# but now other countries catching up while your government goes on making *depts *and conducting wars so the fuse doesn't die out. *Other countries were able to able to maintain their dominance much longer.*



First of all your grammar is terrible.

A few decades, a few is 2-3, we have been number one since arguably 1930, thats 80years. Damn near a century.

Most of the people who the US owes a debt to is Japan, China, and most is held by American citizens through Social security, investments, and numerous of other things. We went to war over something kind of dumb but not unreasonable and we have benefited greatly I could go on for days what advances the wars have given us in the past 10 years.


What countries, Rome? The Persian Empire. I wouldn't exactly call those countries as a country is usually unified and cooperate with each other. Rome is probably the closest but understand that was a city that was very powerful. Its like the NY, of Italy.


Can you elaborate more on the shit that is spewing from your mouth especially the bolded parts they make zero sense whatsoever. 


What countries are you talking about? Britian, Germany, Russia, Spain, France, China, fuck I don't know.

We are the best there ever was and will be.

AMERICA....FUCK YEA AND FUCK YOU.


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## The Pink Ninja (Aug 24, 2013)

Just like those fucking Mexicans and terrorists are encircling the good old USA of A.


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## Garcher (Aug 24, 2013)

IchLiebe said:


> First of all your grammar is terrible.
> 
> A few decades, a few is 2-3, we have been number one since arguably 1930, thats 80years. Damn near a century.
> 
> ...



Actually the US says there was something like "The cold war", a real thread, a bisection of the world. This doesn't sound like real dominance, bro. So there we go only 2-3 decades till now, and several asian countries are on the best way to become at least economical superpowers.  To be more exact, you became a real military superpower during WW II. Before that, you military was more or less organized like the legions of the Roman Republic, but now you have a large standing army out of hightech mercenary soldiers.

Like you said, Rome was able to completly dominate the "World at that time" ( There was no meeting of with the East asian "world" ya know) for several centuries. There was no one who could not a bit challenge them. Or the old egypt, or the Ottoman Empire. But every superpower goes down. This doesn't mean the U.S. will be completly crushed like Rome, perhaps they still we have a very important role in many sectors, but they won't be the only country which can do as it pleases

I wrote threat wrong. Yes I wanted to write threat and not thread. Same for depts, i wanted to write debts lol. In the other sentence i repeated "able". I'm not a native English speaker and I wrote that in a hurry. Accept that or come at me in German, let's see if you can do better.

If an alien flied past earth before ~500 years, it would never thought that the European culture ( yes, you Americans come mostly from Europa, too. Lol.) could be the dominant one. They European countries just fighted each other. It would had bet that an asian country mostly China or the Ottoman Empire would be the dominant force in future. They were a big unified country and more progressively than us. But then the colonial era suddenly started and Europe made so fast technical progress so they could conquer basically the whole world - but with your mindset the asian countries would have been still the superior ones.


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## Greedy master (Aug 24, 2013)

lol american warmongers try to claim their country is no1 and russia is better than europe , the truth  is usa would still be a british colony if france and spain didnt help your revolution , you own your independence on european countries , when european countries build their own empires  usa was literally nothing , every single european country has way more war depth than any country on earth , usa could only hope to reach that level , your first demostration of strength was in the late 1800 and at ww1-2 , europe's demonstration of strength was back from ancient times until this day.

 None can really compare europe to anyone as a *whole* , european countries made small alliances and fought each other , europe literally bleed upon itself , it never stood as a whole entity against anyone but even those *small* alliances basically stomped anyone , the mongols only managed to do something but still we beat them later , germany would have beat soviet union alone if it wasnt for the fatal mistake of italy and the winter , now dont tell me that germany soloed europe because back then many european countries allied with the germans while others were neutral  even then europe was  divided.

America's aggresive foreign policy has give birth to this cocky attidute and the false idea that *Usa is unbeatable* , the truth is  you havent fought a real war since ww2 and european countries are on your side , you dont know how usa would fare in a real war against europe or any other state , no state except usa acts like a world police and this isnt because those states are *weak* but because it may be a foolish strategy to do , if europe use you to do the dirty work then the smart one here is europe not usa and its wrong to believe europe is weak , actually history taught a lesson to european countries since most of them lost their empires and they know imperialism and control isnt as easy as it sounds because you have to sacrifice a lot of army and resources  so why not let usa rot all its resources to do the dirty work for us?

Usa one day will realise the cold truth and its cockiness will lead to its doom , usa is bound to fall like every empire before them and this is because its basically impossible to control the whole world for a long time and sacrifice too much economy for it  is a suicidal strategy , usa already has tons of problems in its society , the last thing you want is a united europe to oppose you , instead of thinking russia is going easy on europe because of usa then you may aswell think  russia is going easy on usa because of europe.... , dont judge anyone until a real war takes place or you may be caught by surprise when you see your nation fall , i dont think though we will ever see united europe fight together because all european nations have way too much pride and culture , its almost impossible for them to unite.


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## Mael (Aug 24, 2013)

Greedy master said:


> lol american warmongers try to claim their country is no1 and russia is better than europe , the truth  is usa would still be a british colony if france and spain didnt help your revolution , you own your independence on european countries , when european countries build their own empires  usa was literally nothing , every single european country has way more war depth than any country on earth , usa could only hope to reach that level , your first demostration of strength was in the late 1800 and at ww1-2 , europe's demonstration of strength was back from ancient times until this day.
> 
> None can really compare europe to anyone as a *whole* , european countries made small alliances and fought each other , europe literally bleed upon itself , it never stood as a whole entity against anyone but even those *small* alliances basically stomped anyone , the mongols only managed to do something but still we beat them later , germany would have beat soviet union alone if it wasnt for the fatal mistake of italy and the winter , now dont tell me that germany soloed europe because back then many european countries allied with the germans while others were neutral  even then europe was  divided.
> 
> ...



Dude you're Turkish.  Knock it off.  You're not really Europe and the Ottoman Empire was just about all there was to it aside from Ataturk.

What you also said was filled with such inaccurate bullshit especially in regards to Russia.  If you think Russia cared about Europe then you'd think that it wouldn't deal with the US directly since 1945.  Don't shit a shitter, dude.  Russia would steamroll Europe.  You're fronting.

Europe is a military relic now.  The world belongs to the US and Asia.


----------



## Aging Boner (Aug 24, 2013)

Greedy master said:


> lol american warmongers try to claim their country is no1 and russia is better than europe , the truth  is usa would still be a british colony if france and spain didnt help your revolution , you own your independence on european countries , when european countries build their own empires  usa was literally nothing , every single european country has way more war depth than any country on earth , usa could only hope to reach that level , your first demostration of strength was in the late 1800 and at ww1-2 , europe's demonstration of strength was back from ancient times until this day.
> 
> None can really compare europe to anyone as a *whole* , european countries made small alliances and fought each other , europe literally bleed upon itself , it never stood as a whole entity against anyone but even those *small* alliances basically stomped anyone , the mongols only managed to do something but still we beat them later , germany would have beat soviet union alone if it wasnt for the fatal mistake of italy and the winter , now dont tell me that germany soloed europe because back then many european countries allied with the germans while others were neutral  even then europe was  divided.
> 
> ...



the truth of the matter is that Europe has remained politically stable as a continent because of the US presence there since WW2...for the 2000 years before we came along you were tearing each other to pieces. In fact, Europe has NEVER been more politically stable than it is now.

if we (the US) had reverted to being an isolationist nation and left Europe to it's own devices you guys would likely still be warring with each other the same way you always did. Europeans, by nature hate one another, always have. Europe is more imperialistic and warmongery than the US ever has been. History proves that beyond a shadow of a doubt. 

Hell, the very thought of Europe having nukes without us around making sure you don't use them on yourselves scares the hell out of me.


Now as for Asia (since Le Male wants me to be on topic)...Asian countries WANT our support. China scares the living shit out of them and with good reason. I mean, these guys have Generals meeting with University professors to discuss ancient territorial claims held by whatever ancient dynasty once ruled their empire.

If you look at satellite pictures of desolate Chinese regions you'll see "secret" military style installations cropping up practically overnight. Their military budget expenditure is also growing exponentially...and for what? their peaceful rise to power? Bullshit. China would love to quietly annex every country that has a yellow native racial population.


I know it's a running joke, but yes, we _are_ "Team America: World Police". Just like the police we may fuck up on occasion, but believe that shit would be much worse if you didn't have someone to call on when shit goes down in your neighborhood.


edit: and lol at comparing ancient warfare to modern military tactics, strategy and equipment...that is hilarious. None of that is applicable today. That's like saying Macedon could still kick everones asses today because Alexander conquered everything in his path 2400 years ago.


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## Mael (Aug 24, 2013)

Greedy's one of types of people that sucks Europe's dick yet will complain that the US isn't acting on something when an atrocity is going on yet Europe does practically nothing.


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## Greedy master (Aug 24, 2013)

Mael said:


> Dude you're Turkish.  Knock it off.  You're not really Europe and the Ottoman Empire was just about all there was to it aside from Ataturk.
> 
> What you also said was filled with such inaccurate bullshit especially in regards to Russia.  If you think Russia cared about Europe then you'd think that it wouldn't deal with the US directly since 1945.  Don't shit a shitter, dude.  Russia would steamroll Europe.  You're fronting.
> 
> Europe is a military relic now.  The world belongs to the US and Asia.



first of all im not turkish.

You are probably refering to the cold war , soviet union didnt oppose the us only but any western capitalist nation , its just that european countries were at ruins back then and the us rised as a superpower because it didnt suffer as much damage and also it had nukes , you will notice though in your proxy wars until this day you had the support of nato , us didnt always fight alone also soviet union took measures against western european nations before 1945 , one example is their support to turks , if it wasnt for this  greece would have restore the vyzantine empire. There was no european nation to oppose after the 1945 except the british perhaps , everyone else was at ruins. 

Now tell me back then if europe(including axis) was united and everyone ganged up on soviet union or the us who would have won? you probably know the answer but no europe once again destroyed itself by battling each other , in these times , russia doesnt seem to oppose anyone at all , nato made several crusades through the middle east without facing russian resistance,  russia export gas to europe why would it want to hinder the relations with the eu? its unclear how russia view europe or the us , which one thinks as greatest danger , overall russia is  trying to catch up as a superpower and troll a bit but thats all , they havent take a massive step to counter the us yet.

As i said you cant judge anyone until a real war takes place , you cant call europe a *military relic* , if europe unites and creates a balanced and fair state then we will see who is the stronger.


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## Mael (Aug 24, 2013)

Greedy master said:


> first of all im not turkish.
> 
> You are probably refering to the cold war , soviet union didnt oppose the us only but any western capitalist nation , its just that european countries were at ruins back then and the us rised as a superpower because it didnt suffer as much damage and also it had nukes , you will notice though in your proxy wars until this day you had the support of nato , us didnt always fight alone also soviet union took measures against western european nations before 1945 , one example is their support to turks , if it wasnt for this  greece would have restore the vyzantine empire. There was no european nation to oppose after the 1945 except the british perhaps , everyone else was at ruins.
> 
> ...



It'd still be America.  You know why?

Your budget to defense is shit and your weapons aren't nearly the level of quality the way the Russians and Americans have made it.  Right now you're fan-fictioning.  Europe will never unite in that level and have a leadership strong enough to spearhead it all.  It is a relic now, because France and England didn't beat Nazi Germany.  The Soviet Union nailed that coffin, Russians, real fighters.  Europe didn't defeat Japan in the Pacific.  The United States did.  The United States took the helm even in the stalemate of Korea which was more brutal than you'd think.

Knock it off.  You look like a joke.  A bitter, anti-American joke.

But you kids keep thinking your fantasies.


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## Garcher (Aug 24, 2013)

Mael said:


> Dude you're Turkish.  Knock it off.  You're not really Europe and the Ottoman Empire was just about all there was to it aside from Ataturk.
> 
> What you also said was filled with such inaccurate bullshit especially in regards to Russia.  If you think Russia cared about Europe then you'd think that it wouldn't deal with the US directly since 1945.  Don't shit a shitter, dude.*  Russia would steamroll Europe*.  You're fronting.
> 
> Europe is a military relic now.  The world belongs to the US and Asia.



You are loosing relation to reality ... there is no way Russia could "streamroll" Europe. And after all, it's in your interest that we don't get "streamrolled", too. Out military point of view ( what actually matters), the world just belongs the U.S., the military of North Korea and Chinese is ridiculous weak  . And at the economic point of view, our economic output is equal to yours.



Mael said:


> Greedy's one of types of people that sucks Europe's dick yet will complain that the US isn't acting on something when an atrocity is going on yet Europe does practically nothing.



The problem is just, we are no world police, no European country is allowed to begin an offensive war without the U.S.


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## Mael (Aug 24, 2013)

Because, Itachi, if a European nation were to war with the US, they'd be steamrolled.

And actually Russia would smack a lot of European nations down.  Please give me your hard evidence it wouldn't be that case without American assistance.


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## Greedy master (Aug 24, 2013)

Mael said:


> Because, Itachi, if a European nation were to war with the US, they'd be steamrolled.
> 
> And actually Russia would smack a lot of European nations down.  Please give me your hard evidence it wouldn't be that case without American assistance.



yeah right russia will beat 27 countries and some of them have nukes aswell and add the commonwealth of the british into this..... this not different than a chuck norris joke.



Mael said:


> It'd still be America.  You know why?
> 
> Your budget to defense is shit and your weapons aren't nearly the level of quality the way the Russians and Americans have made it.  Right now you're fan-fictioning.  Europe will never unite in that level and have a leadership strong enough to spearhead it all.  It is a relic now, because France and England didn't beat Nazi Germany.  The Soviet Union nailed that coffin, Russians, real fighters.  Europe didn't defeat Japan in the Pacific.  The United States did.  The United States took the helm even in the stalemate of Korea which was more brutal than you'd think.
> 
> ...



Nazi germany is considered europe and would have steamrolled soviet union if the rest of european nations didnt resist to it  also italy  a major ally of the nazis got destroyed by another european countries ,  also stop acting like the nazis did everything alone , they had many allies like romania,bulgaria,italy,austria.... europe literally battled itself , all these countries of europe combined would have stomped usa for fun , the end of usa wouldnt be a gentle one.


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## Garcher (Aug 24, 2013)

Ofc it would steamroll the many weak countries in the east with no doubt but in that time the European great powers could mobilize their troops, too. So Russia would have a very tough time - like i mentioned earlier, much of Russia's war material is still from the Soviet Union. On the paper, it is a very huge and dangerous number but in the end it has no use if a major part is out-dated. Don't make the mistake to compare your hightech mercenary army, your perfect war economy to Russia's as equals.

Just a scarcity of raw materials could be problematic to Europe at all.

EDIT


Greedy master said:


> yeah right russia will beat 27 countries and some of them have nukes aswell and add the commonwealth of the british into this..... this not different than a chuck norris joke.
> 
> 
> 
> Nazi germany is considered europe and would have steamrolled soviet union if the rest of european nations didnt resist to it  also italy  a major ally of the nazis got destroyed by another european countries ,  also stop acting like the nazis did everything alone , they had many allies like romania,bulgaria,italy,austria.... europe literally battled itself , all these countries of europe combined would have stomped usa for fun , the end of usa wouldnt be a gentle one.


There was no resist on the Europe continent. The french "R?sistance" was pathetic. The UK just stayed in war because Churchill hoped so hard the U.S. would join.
All italy died was beginning wars on the Balkan and North Africa, and ALWAYS they weren't able to win so they begged Germany for help. This had on one hand to fatal consequenze that the frontlines of Germany were horrible overstretched. But Germany couldn't observe their time table for the attack on the Soviet Union. If Germany had attacked in Spring like planned their would have probably steamrolled the Soviet Union, the winter thwarted the Wehrmacht. And this was ?ctually the moment Germany was defeated. The countries like bulgaria are negligible, they are weak as fuck.
I don't know what you want say at all - is there some kind of crazy military honor you want to defend? It might be true the U.S wasn't the untouchable military superpower before WW II like it is today, but I can't figure out a way the Europe great powers could have coperated. Even if they had it still would be very difficult for them to actually INVADE the U.S. - they had a crazy strong marine, a huge country, much ressources, and were able to build up the best war economy of the world in a very short time, over that, EVERYONE there has private weapons - they won the independence wars in spite of Britan had actually a more efficient military. Stop this dream, neither the U.S. nor European countries would had an effort out of such a war. Even Nazi Germany DIDN'T WANTED war the West. Just with the Soviet Union actually.


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## Blue (Aug 24, 2013)

Russia has had a hell of a time steamrolling its own uppity republics. I do think that Europe would make short work of a Russian invasion, but that's because Russia is hilariously weak, not that Europe is particularly strong. The fact that this hypothetical invasion would be on European soil is key. They don't have any ability to project power, but they wouldn't need to, in their own nations.


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## Blue (Aug 24, 2013)

Also, Itachi, shut up already. America is awesome.


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## Sunuvmann (Aug 24, 2013)

Blue said:


> Russia has had a hell of a time steamrolling its own uppity republics. I do think that Europe would make short work of a Russian invasion, but that's because Russia is hilariously weak, not that Europe is particularly strong. The fact that this hypothetical invasion would be on European soil is key. They don't have any ability to project power, but they wouldn't need to, in their own nations.


Yeahhh...how long did it take them to reach Berlin after pushing them from Russia?

At least a year iirc?

And they had the US draining resources by opening up the Western front.


Pretty much the real advantage Russia had in Europe was population. Like China, they were able to throw numbers at the problem.

I think the problem within the cold war is most knew Russians would be unable to take Europe with military strength should they be foolish enough to invade so they'd resort to nukes.


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## Mael (Aug 24, 2013)

Greedy master said:


> Nazi germany is considered europe and would have steamrolled soviet union if the rest of european nations didnt resist to it  also italy  a major ally of the nazis got destroyed by another european countries ,  also stop acting like the nazis did everything alone , they had many allies like romania,bulgaria,italy,austria.... europe literally battled itself , all these countries of europe combined would have stomped usa for fun , the end of usa wouldnt be a gentle one.



So basically you're playing History OBD?

Do you know how pathetic you sound right now?

And to get on topic, you have COMPLETELY failed to even recognize that Asian nations WANT the United States to show up because they're utterly livid at China's bombastic moves and claims.  Do you have any concrete and academic evidence that Vietnam, Malaysia, Brunei, Palau, South Korea, Japan, The Philippines, Taiwan, and others DO NOT want the US keeping China in check?  Do you?


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Aug 24, 2013)

Still talking about Europe and Russia ????


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## Garcher (Aug 24, 2013)

Blue said:


> Also, Itachi, shut up already. America is awesome.



I never claimed something else, I just don't agree with a few points of your foreign policy. The rest of your country is great.


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Aug 24, 2013)

Mael said:


> Greedy's one of types of people that sucks Europe's dick yet will complain that the US isn't acting on something when an atrocity is going on yet Europe does practically nothing.



I never seen these people and I would like to see them and argue with them. 

When atrocity is going, Europe like the others, don't care, only their interest preval. In Mali, France defend it interest and those of Europe. In the middle east, it's for them that the US went in war, not for the population. In Libya, it was just a great excuse for the west to remove Ghadaffi.

On atrocities, only the west want to look like they care. And if for you, Europe do pratically nothing, we can say better from the rest of the world include the new major countries like Brazil, Russia, India and China.


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## The Pink Ninja (Aug 25, 2013)

Having re-reviewed this thread I realised my trolling attempt was actually less bizzare and stupid than most other serious posts 



Sunuvmann said:


> Yeahhh...how long did it take them to reach Berlin after pushing them from Russia?
> 
> At least a year iirc?
> 
> ...



First off you've already shown you don't know shit about WW2 in just those first three lines, so shush.

Secondly, this isn't 1945, so shush. Comparisons may not be drawn.


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Aug 25, 2013)

You can talk about US tension with China, about Snowden and the NSA or US-EU free trade deal, it's always finish talking about NATO or WWII.

It's really hard for people to stay on topic with their european interlocutors. The nationalities of people in this thread drive the discusion rather than the opinion on topic


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## The Pink Ninja (Aug 25, 2013)

Le M?le Dominant said:


> It's really hard for people to stay on topic with their european interlocutors. The nationalities of people in this thread drive the discusion rather than the opinion on topic



An excellent summation.


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## Mael (Aug 25, 2013)

Le M?le Dominant said:


> You can talk about US tension with China, about Snowden and the NSA or US-EU free trade deal, it's always finish talking about NATO or WWII.
> 
> It's really hard for people to stay on topic with their european interlocutors. The nationalities of people in this thread drive the discusion rather than the opinion on topic



When the accusation of warmonger flies out and then a ridiculous OBD wall of text comes out, that's pretty much someone warping the tracks with a heat ray.  I think what needs to be said though is that the Asian nations WANT this, so if accusations of warmongering are there, point them towards Vietnam, Palau, and the Philippines.

Japan just made its own carrier ffs.


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Aug 25, 2013)

Mael said:


> When the accusation of warmonger flies out and then a ridiculous OBD wall of text comes out, that's pretty much someone warping the tracks with a heat ray.  I think what needs to be said though is that the Asian nations WANT this, so if accusations of warmongering are there, point them towards Vietnam, Palau, and the Philippines.
> 
> Japan just made its own carrier ffs.



The word "warmonger" was said but no names were given. Only those who felt concerned answered. If there weren't a part of truth, my comment would be ignored.


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## Mael (Aug 25, 2013)

Le M?le Dominant said:


> The word "warmonger" was said but no names were given. Only those who felt concerned answered. If there weren't a part of truth, my comment would be ignored.



Tell that to greedy.


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## Seto Kaiba (Aug 25, 2013)

Le M?le Dominant said:


> The word "warmonger" was said but no names were given. Only those who felt concerned answered. If there weren't a part of truth, my comment would be ignored.



No it wouldn't, because it was fucking stupid.


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Aug 25, 2013)

Seto Kaiba said:


> No it wouldn't, because it was fucking stupid.



 Ooooh, are you ok ? I'm deeply sorry SK if it hurt you and some many people here when I said "nationalists warmonger" without naming someone 

I sorry for the people that recognize themselves in "nationalists warmonger".


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## Seto Kaiba (Aug 25, 2013)

Le M?le Dominant said:


> Ooooh, are you ok ? I'm deeply sorry SK if it hurt you and some many people here when I said "nationalists warmonger" without naming someone
> 
> I sorry for the people that recognize themselves in "nationalists warmonger".



You were targeting Americans with your rhetoric, as you have done in the past; so naturally Americans will respond. I would think that you're at least intelligent enough to see why people would think it was just another one of your tirades. You have whined numerous times about the spread of American culture and influence, and the attitudes of American citizens. Why would anyone think this any different? You wouldn't have to name anyone in particular, because it was so broad to begin with.


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Aug 25, 2013)

Seto Kaiba said:


> You were targeting Americans with your rhetoric, as you have done in the past; so naturally Americans will respond. I would think that you're at least intelligent enough to see why people would think it was just another one of your tirades. You have whined numerous times about the spread of American culture and influence, and the attitudes of American citizens. Why would anyone think this any different? You wouldn't have to name anyone in particular, because it was so broad to begin with.



 .......I didn't cited the Americans in this thread. 

I'm intelligent enough to see that people show how they really are when they are touched by words  They show their bias and like I said, they drive the discussion based of the nationality of their interlucotor. 

It would be posted by a new member, it would be the same reaction. 
My opinions on others issues is just an excuse to cry "anti Americanism" or "Anglophobia" when I give an opinion or even post an article that criticize something linked to the US.

But in this thread, it wasn't even on the US, it was on NF people themselves. 

Say ""nationalists warmonger"and people who feel concerned raging


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## Savior (Aug 25, 2013)

Blue said:


> Also, Itachi, shut up already. America is awesome.



40 million + living below the poverty line is awesome while spending hundreds of billions on defense all over the world ? Awesome yep, unless you're one of the tens of millions who are dirt poor in the U.S. I guess they aren't important to you though.


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## Sanity Check (Aug 25, 2013)

In ancient times, China built a Great Wall to keep the barbarians out.

In modern times, they build a Great Wall to keep the chinese out.

We've come full circle~.


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## Blue (Aug 25, 2013)

Savior said:


> 40 million + living below the poverty line is awesome while spending hundreds of billions on defense all over the world ? Awesome yep, unless you're one of the tens of millions who are dirt poor in the U.S. I guess they aren't important to you though.



"Living below the poverty line"

Know what the poverty line is in India?

2 dollars a day.

In Vietnam?

1 dollar a day.

In the UK?

22 dollars a day.

In the US? 

32 dollars a day.

That's not poverty. That's having to choose between a new car and a new flat-screen TV.

Look up the difference between relative and absolute poverty. You are right that relative poverty is not high on my list of priorities.


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## Deleted member 222538 (Aug 25, 2013)

^ Just because our poverty line isn't as low as some others does not make it a nonissue. Poverty is a very real problem in America.


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## Aging Boner (Aug 25, 2013)

Normality said:


> ^ Just because our poverty line isn't as low as some others does not make it a nonissue. Poverty is a very real problem in America.



dude, our homeless people have iPhones...

and the only reason they're actually homeless is usually because they are mentally ill or extreme alcoholics/drug addicts.

If by some chance a person or family has a run of bad luck and and loses their house and jobs (and for some reason can't get unemployement benefits) it would be simple to find a brand new home left over from the housing crash of 2008 and simply squat there until they get back on their feet. There are literally thousands of empty homes and subdivisions in the US.

That's if they are too uppity to stay at a family shelter, apply for section 8 housing, foodstamps and a myriad of other programs designed to help families in serious need.


a lot of the scaremongering about how bad the economy in the US is that you hear on the NEWS is just that, scaremongering. Why? ratings, control, political manipulation etc.

Our bad economy is most countries golden age.


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## Xyloxi (Aug 25, 2013)

Normality said:


> ^ Just because our poverty line isn't as low as some others does not make it a nonissue. Poverty is a very real problem in America.



You need to think about the difference between relative and absolute poverty. If you live in some decrepit village in a country like Pakistan, where you're illiterate, can't feed your family reliably, have to have a ton of children as insurance against death and as agricultural labourers, you're living in absolute poverty. If you're struggling to meet, but have shelter, a job, food, but little money for luxuries, you're developed world standard of poor, or relatively poor compared in regards to your country's economic situation.


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## Kirito (Aug 25, 2013)

Mael said:


> When the accusation of warmonger flies out and then a ridiculous OBD wall of text comes out, that's pretty much someone warping the tracks with a heat ray.  I think what needs to be said though is that the Asian nations WANT this, so if accusations of warmongering are there, point them towards Vietnam, Palau, and the Philippines.
> 
> Japan just made its own carrier ffs.



Woah woah woah wait.

Asian nations WANT this?

Dude we don't. At all. We don't have the money to feed ourselves, what more go into war.


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## Deleted member 222538 (Aug 25, 2013)

Xyloxi said:


> You need to think about the difference between relative and absolute poverty. If you live in some decrepit village in a country like Pakistan, where you're illiterate, can't feed your family reliably, have to have a ton of children as insurance against death and as agricultural labourers, you're living in absolute poverty. If you're struggling to meet, but have shelter, a job, food, but little money for luxuries, you're developed world standard of poor, or relatively poor compared in regards to your country's economic situation.



Umm okay but I never equated those two to being the same. I just said that even if it's not drastic compared to other nations does not make it a nonissue.


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## Wolfarus (Aug 25, 2013)

Normality said:


> Umm okay but I never equated those two to being the same. I just said that even if it's not drastic compared to other nations does not make it a nonissue.



Dont let certain posters get to you when the subject of poverty and whatnot is brought up. From some of the stuff they've posted, i assume they had the incredibly good luck to be born into wealth (or at least a very financially healthy middle class family) and have a quasi "bubble" mentality.

Ya know, the kind of people who would live in a gated community and go "poor people? what poor people?" or simply say that the poor are that way because they are lazy, undriven, or unwilling to work to improve their situation..


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## Island (Aug 25, 2013)

Kirito said:


> Woah woah woah wait.
> 
> Asian nations WANT this?
> 
> Dude we don't. At all. We don't have the money to feed ourselves, what more go into war.


The governments do. They recognize the threat that China is to their own security. China supports North Korea. South Korea aligns with the United States.  China demands Taiwan's subjugation. Taiwan aligns with the United States. China claims Japanese islands. Japan aligns with the United States. Rinse and repeat that last one with Vietnam and the Philippines.

The list goes on.

Also know that when somebody says "X country wants this!" it usually means that "X country's government wants this!" It doesn't really matter what the people want; we're talking about what the governments want, and the governments of the various East Asian countries are interested in protecting their sovereignty from China.


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## Kirito (Aug 25, 2013)

Island said:


> The governments do. They recognize the threat that China is to their own security. China supports North Korea. South Korea aligns with the United States.  China demands Taiwan's subjugation. Taiwan aligns with the United States. China claims Japanese islands. Japan aligns with the United States. Rinse and repeat that last one with Vietnam and the Philippines.
> 
> The list goes on.
> 
> Also know that when somebody says "X country wants this!" it usually means that "X country's government wants this!" It doesn't really matter what the people want; we're talking about what the governments want, and the governments of the various East Asian countries are interested in protecting their sovereignty from China.



Can't speak for the others but the Phil government doesn't have a brain. We want peace, not war, and the ships we're buying from Japan are only for self-defense.

But yes, we know China's being a humongous prick lately as far as the government is concerned, and when your overseas workers that run the grunt of the workforce in Taiwan are getting abused because of it, then yes indeed, we have reasons to be defensive about it.

But no wars lol.


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## Island (Aug 25, 2013)

Kirito said:


> Can't speak for the others but the Phil government doesn't have a brain. We want peace, not war, and the ships we're buying from Japan are only for self-defense.
> 
> But yes, we know China's being a humongous prick lately as far as the government is concerned, and when your overseas workers that run the grunt of the workforce in Taiwan are getting abused because of it, then yes indeed, we have reasons to be defensive about it.
> 
> But no wars lol.


Nobody _wants_ war. The United States doesn't even want war. It just wants China and friends (i.e. North Korea) to stop trolling the international community.

Being prepared for war doesn't mean wanting war. It just so happens that the United States is _more_ prepared for war with China than with any other country.


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## Blue (Aug 25, 2013)

Wolfarus said:


> Dont let certain posters get to you when the subject of poverty and whatnot is brought up. From some of the stuff they've posted, i assume they had the incredibly good luck to be born into wealth (or at least a very financially healthy middle class family) and have a quasi "bubble" mentality.
> 
> Ya know, the kind of people who would live in a gated community and go "poor people? what poor people?" or simply say that the poor are that way because they are lazy, undriven, or unwilling to work to improve their situation..



You hit my nail on the head, but I have working-class friends, and I don't mean "I once met a man who couldn't afford a boat."
The person I consider one of my two or three best friends just got fired from his $9.50/hr assembly job and was ecstatic to have found a similar job paying 10.50 within a couple of days. For the past ten years I've seen how he lives and despite the fact that I ticked over seven digits a few months ago and he has never had more than 500 dollars in his bank account, I don't have anything he doesn't have. We both have smartphones, flat-screen TVs, luxury cars (his is 8 years older than mine). I have his Xbox 360; he has my PS3. We both live in similar-sized homes. Mine has carpet. His has linoleum. The list goes on. 

By world standards, he lives like a king. And indeed, he has a retinue of 25 or 30 Chinamen working to maintain his standard of living. So he has the opportunity to buy a 5 dollar shirt, a 20 dollar pair of shoes, or a 300 dollar smartphone, millions of people work in a living hell for pennies a day in the developing world.

So no. Don't try to tell me American poverty is a major problem.

The problem isn't "poverty", it's income disparity. I make twice what he makes without working; imagine if I had a job. That's something that, without attacking the wealthy for being wealthy, because it's not their "fault" - we could work on.

But it's not something that requires us to forget China and defund the military to do.


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## Deleted member 222538 (Aug 25, 2013)

Oh my god Blue dont do this to yourself. You're lucky I'm on a phone for now.


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## Kirito (Aug 25, 2013)

Island said:


> Nobody _wants_ war. *The United States doesn't even want war.* It just wants China and friends (i.e. North Korea) to stop trolling the international community.
> 
> Being prepared for war doesn't mean wanting war. It just so happens that the United States is _more_ prepared for war with China than with any other country.



Well I don't buy the bolded part of your post  but I understand where you're coming from, so I'll leave it at that.


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Aug 25, 2013)

Kirito said:


> Well I don't buy the bolded part of your post  but I understand where you're coming from, so I'll leave it at that.



No, NF want the war, the United States doesn't want the war, they want to sell you weapons. 


Money money money money moneeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeey.


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## Mider T (Aug 25, 2013)

Kirito said:


> Well I don't buy the bolded part of your post  but I understand where you're coming from, so I'll leave it at that.



Do you guys not learn the lessons of previous wars?  Prepardness is need to prevent war.  Every single time people claim the defenders are the warmongers, it's annoying.


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## Island (Aug 25, 2013)

Kirito said:


> *Well I don't buy the bolded part of your post*  but I understand where you're coming from, so I'll leave it at that.


Then prove it. Back up your claims with evidence that the US wants war.


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