# [Official] It's Obito thread.



## Klue (Aug 29, 2012)

Damn it, he is Obito.


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## Skywalker (Aug 29, 2012)

It was only a matter of time.


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## Ptolemy (Aug 29, 2012)

Awesome. I saw the first page of the cahpter and I was like


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## shinethedown (Aug 29, 2012)

Seriously though, this could be very interesting depending on the angle Kishi takes with it. Also enjoy your bragging rights Tobito theorists


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## Kazeshini (Aug 29, 2012)

Finally confirmed.


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## Arles Celes (Aug 29, 2012)

Problem?

To be fair though it is the only reveal that does provide some actual drama.

No one cares for Izuna or Kagami.

And most of all Kishi loves guys that are the evil version of Naruto like Gaara or Nagato.


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## Moon Fang (Aug 29, 2012)

I don't understand how that flashback had anything do with this.


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## Hossaim (Aug 29, 2012)

Bad writing. 

Although the reveal was pretty good.


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## AceBizzle (Aug 29, 2012)

Jesus Lord..forgive me for what I'm going to do to the Telegram


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## Synn (Aug 29, 2012)

Now we wait to find out why he went batshit insane.


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## Rokudaime (Aug 29, 2012)

Obito? I am sad. I wish that Tobi is anyone but Obito.


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## Alex Payne (Aug 29, 2012)

An apology from non-believers for all those years of ridiculing people who believed it would be nice


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## Dreamer2go (Aug 29, 2012)

wow..... what a twist......

I mean I totally lost respect of Obito here... he was a great character, and died in an honorable way.... now... this just messed the whole story up, though I think it is interesting....


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## Jotun (Aug 29, 2012)

WHO IS LAUGHING NOW

can not seem to find my other treads, archived maybe


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## aiyanah (Aug 29, 2012)

shit was so obvious
you cant be surprised :/


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## Starstalker (Aug 29, 2012)

Hossaim said:


> Bad writing.
> 
> Although the reveal was pretty good.



This.
Although I find it a bad idea to make Tobi a shinobi nobody actualy cares about.
Unfortunately, if it were Izuna, it would still be a shinobi nobody cares about.
When obitards calm down then we can discuss bad writing.


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## Sniffers (Aug 29, 2012)

I liked the reveal with flashback. It being Obito seemed so obvious that I didn't expect it lol.  Looking forward to see Kishimoto explain this one.


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## Rain (Aug 29, 2012)

Damn i shed a tear. Pretty good chapter.


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## jacamo (Aug 29, 2012)

hardly surprising... Kishi built it up


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## Viper (Aug 29, 2012)

Fuck yes, fucking fucking yeeees.


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## Coldhands (Aug 29, 2012)

The reveal was AWESOME with the "silent" flashback. It's going to be interesting seeing how Kishi is going to explain all the plot holes.


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## Starstalker (Aug 29, 2012)

Ah, c'mon...we all knew it and it was all too obvious.
The denial was just because we were expecting Kishi to be a good writer.
Gg Obito fans, gg.


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## Summers (Aug 29, 2012)

I would have liked words so something could be explained. This chapter was so boring that I feel sleepy.


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## Xin (Aug 29, 2012)

Haha, loved how he helped the old lady


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## forkandspoon (Aug 29, 2012)

Wish I could find my post from back in the day, I've been a supporter of this for so long.


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## Tranquility (Aug 29, 2012)

Told you threads beginning. We'll never hear the end of it.

Interested to see why he turned out so evil. Hopefully Kishi can explain this one properly. Chapter was done pretty well.


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## Cold (Aug 29, 2012)

So many people were so adamant about it NOT being Obito.

It couldn't possibly be him.  Makes no sense.  And yet, just like looking back it was obvious the Fourth was Naruto's Dad, now it's obvious Tobi was Obito.  Those who claimed this and took all of that condescension for years should be repped.  We need a list.


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## Red Raptor (Aug 29, 2012)

alex payne said:


> An apology from non-believers for all those years of ridiculing people who believed it would be nice



Here, on NF? Awww...


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## jacamo (Aug 29, 2012)

still not confirmed Obito's mind

come at me


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## Ezekial (Aug 29, 2012)

Terrible writing, I admit I was wrong, but seriously you cant buy this BS


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## Drums (Aug 29, 2012)

In your face, Tobito naysayers, in your face.


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## Skywalker (Aug 29, 2012)

Ezekial said:


> Terrible writing, I admit I was wrong, but seriously you cant buy this BS


You have to get over it sooner or later.


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## Arles Celes (Aug 29, 2012)

Ezekial said:


> Terrible writing, I admit I was wrong, but seriously you cant buy this BS



Tobi is Izuna.

This chapter was just a red herring.

Keep believing


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## Moon Fang (Aug 29, 2012)

Tobito fans rejoice. I aint buying shit until Kishis explains this.


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## Viper (Aug 29, 2012)

Beautiful. I will enjoy seeing the deniers' reactions.


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## Wez ★ (Aug 29, 2012)

He looked awesome on that last page, but I've gotta say I'm very disappointed right now.

Hopefully Kishi actually makes sense of it all.


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## Divinstrosity (Aug 29, 2012)

...this explains why I always felt Tobi wreaked of fail. He just seemed like such a gimmicky shinobi, and I hated that about him.

Well, if you were as much fail as Obito, you'd need a gimmick to make you formidable.


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## Nic (Aug 29, 2012)

Moon Fang said:


> I don't understand how that flashback had anything do with this.



It's actually quite simple, Kishi is drawing a parallel between young obito and young Naruto.


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## Kusa (Aug 29, 2012)

I hate Kishi for this.This made me lost interest in the manga.


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## Flynn (Aug 29, 2012)

Damn I keep getting gateway errors trying to open threads.


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## dwade (Aug 29, 2012)

This date shall always be known as Tobito day, the day its supporters became geniuses! The word Izuna should be banned.


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## Klue (Aug 29, 2012)

Nic said:


> It's actually quite simple, Kishi is drawing a parallel between young obito and young Naruto.



The reason for Obito's 180 has been revealed, he never received an opportunity to tell Rin that he loved her.

Poor Obito.


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## T7 Bateman (Aug 29, 2012)

I did love the flashbacks. Poor Obito lol trying so hard but failing but he looked so happy when he finally did pass the exams. I do feel for him in the love triangle. Can't wait to see how he came to be what he is now. My poor Kakashi he just looked so shocked.


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## Missing_Nin (Aug 29, 2012)

oh yea what now hahahahahahahahahahahahah

tobito believers rejoice, we've been ridicule from these non-believers for so long.


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## Toonz (Aug 29, 2012)

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3ALwKeSEYs[/YOUTUBE]


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## Flynn (Aug 29, 2012)

Team Minato and Team Seven. So similar yet so different no?


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## Soca (Aug 29, 2012)

to top off the lovely revelation of hilariousness it would be amazing if all of this was because of rin, it would be known as the biggest overreaction ever


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## NarutoIzDaMan (Aug 29, 2012)

Hardly surprising after years of speculation but as always, nice to see it finally confirmed. Looks like Obito did somehow manage to survive and turned mad/insane after learning of Rin's passing. A lot of this chapter highlighted his affection for her, so when you factor in Kakashi's "broken promise" to him it's not that hard to imagine why his personality changed so drastically after she passed. 

That being said, it will be VERY interesting to see how Kishi fills in all the apparent plot holes that have been presented by this reveal.


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## Terra Branford (Aug 29, 2012)

It's Obito! 


That said, kinda disappointed in the chapter. The flashbacks weren't that bad, but it took the whole chapter. I iz disappointed.


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## Burke (Aug 29, 2012)

Damn, now your hating doesnt even make sense


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## Kezone (Aug 29, 2012)

Finally!

Do those of us who stuck with Tobito through all of the ridicule get our apologies now?


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## Easley (Aug 29, 2012)

I love that line on the last page; "It's finally revealed, his name is Obito!" Sure, no one saw that coming, it was spoiled in advance. Still, I must admit that the reveal is quite good - now if Kishi can make sense of it, I'm happy. Plus, Obito is handsome, the scars give him character!


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## saitohajime (Aug 29, 2012)

Guys its not over yet. It may be Obito's body but may have a different mind/soul. This is where Orochimaru's return will come into play.


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## thesonicvision (Aug 29, 2012)

alex payne said:


> An apology from non-believers for all those years of ridiculing people who believed it would be nice



^ that's what i'm lookin' for.


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## Milo- (Aug 29, 2012)

Bwuahahaha, best chapter ever, second to NARUTO, I AM YOUR FATHER. Congratulations to all the tobito theorists.


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## shit (Aug 29, 2012)

obito and gai's interactions made the chapter

felt like it hit him harder than it did kakashi


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## Hoshigaki Kisame (Aug 29, 2012)

Kishi has some explaining to do.


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## Nic (Aug 29, 2012)

Klue said:


> The reason for Obito's 180 has been revealed, he never received an opportunity to tell Rin that he loved her.
> 
> Poor Obito.



don't make me prove you wrong like always.  The chapter had nothing to do with his 180.   Kishi is just setting up a bigger foundation for when Naruto TNJ's him by making him a Naruto that went dark.


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## Nic (Aug 29, 2012)

shit said:


> obito and gai's interactions made the chapter
> 
> felt like it hit him harder than it did kakashi



same parallel with Naruto getting beaten down by Lee.


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## J1nnobi (Aug 29, 2012)

It's Zetsu


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## Zeno (Aug 29, 2012)

I told you it was Orochimaru all along.


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## Terra Branford (Aug 29, 2012)

saitohajime said:


> Guys its not over yet. It may be Obito's body but may have a different mind/soul. This is where Orochimaru's return will come into play.



And he so happens to possess Obito's memories to be able to have some form of emotional connection to Kakashi and possess the knowledge to torture him? And then there is the new flashback...

Unless he is *sharing* his body with another that allows him his own separate memories and feelings, then it is Obito.


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## PikaCheeka (Aug 29, 2012)

Waiting until next week to make my final judgment.

I still don't think he's Obito heart and soul, too, at least not entirely.


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## Daryoon (Aug 29, 2012)

Back in 2006, I was dragged to this Scottish anime convention and, inspired by absinthe and Neil Buchanan, decided to make a 30-second Art Attack cosplay. So I made Tobi's mask from a sheet of paper (it hadn't been seen in colour at the time) and wandered around the hotel with a sign reading "Obito is a Good Boy". People just gave me weird looks.

VINDICATED, AT LAST!

But, seriously, the clues were there from day one. I never did understand how people could be so vehemently against the idea. Especially when they started dragging out increasingly elaborate counters/"plot holes", and insisting it had to be a minor character from a single frame.


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## Soca (Aug 29, 2012)

HeLLzRoLLinG said:


> Kishi has some explaining to do.



that ain't gonna help lol


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## Nuuskis (Aug 29, 2012)

Well... fuck. 

I can't say I like the idea of Tobi being Obito, but I must admit it. *Tobi is Obito.* And he isn't just some other fellow with Obito's body, he is Obito in body and soul. Those flashbacks were intended for making sure that this guy is real Obito.

Alright, I have never supported Tobi=Obito idea, but I admit I am more satisfied with this result than Tobi being Uchiha Kagami or Sasuke from the future (seriously, most retarded theory I have seen here).

But Kishimoto has to answer alot of questions in order for me to take this plot twist seriously.

-Was it really Obito who controlled Mizukage? Kisame did recognize Tobi's faces, so I guess it was Obito. I guess he decided to take the look of Madara just to fool Kisame or anyone else to who he would show himself.

-Was it really Obito who attacked his former Sensei and ordered the Kyuubi to attack Konoha. Now it would make a little sense for Obito being the mastermind behind Kyuubi's attack on Konoha because Obito has Mangekyo Sharingan. And I am ready to buy his more grown body because it's obviously made from Zetsu's goo.

-Moon's Eye Plan was originally Uchiha Madara's plan, so when did Obito meet with Madara? When Obito was still a kid? And was Madara the one who told Obito about Rikudo Sage and Juubi? Now this is my biggest reason for not taking Tobi being Obito seriously.

-And when the hell did Obito gave Nagato the Rinnegan. Sure people will say he lied to Konan because he had to maintain his role as Madara, but it still felt like he was telling the truth. But I don't know, Obito would have still been a kid in a grown Zetsu-modified body to transplant Nagato the Rinnegan.

I have no choice but to accept this big reveal, but Kishimoto better fill the plot holes. And in all honesty, it's not like I really give a darn anymore.

I guess my favorite character has been Obito all this time.


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## Chuck (Aug 29, 2012)

I can't make up my mind.


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## Terra Branford (Aug 29, 2012)

IF it is only Obito's body, then it better explain why he is talking to Kakashi so personally! Because that would just be the stupidest thing EVER.


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## NarutoQuack (Aug 29, 2012)

If Kishi doesnt answer the giant plot holes, I will flip out.


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## Nodonn (Aug 29, 2012)

Rin better not be his main motivation.

I'd rather not have the drive behind the entire story be one guy being a massive beta.


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## taydev (Aug 29, 2012)

So it was him.....how did THAT happen?! Unless he's being controlled in some way.....

Totally unexpected for him to be one of the final villains. I just want to know why and how?


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## Arya Stark (Aug 29, 2012)

I was suspicious that Kishi would troll us again after seeing the spoilers...(Chapter ends with question)

But seeing the whole flashback, I'm sure its Obito in mind body and soul.

I think he is basically Harvey Dent.


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## Zeno (Aug 29, 2012)

NarutoQuack said:


> If Kishi doesnt answer the giant plot holes, I will flip out.



which plot holes?


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## Lovely (Aug 29, 2012)

Can't wait until he starts ranting next chapter.


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## Soca (Aug 29, 2012)

Nodonn said:


> Rin better not be his main motivation.
> 
> I'd rather not have the drive behind the entire story be one guy being a massive beta.



don't hold your breath on this


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## HashiramaUchiha (Aug 29, 2012)

Well after the last few chapters It was likely that Obito=Tobi I thought it was a neat idea. I just need plot holes filled of how he controlled Yagura and became akatsuki leader.


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## Rick Hunter (Aug 29, 2012)

You people keep talking about plot holes. That's a bit pathetic. Since when something that has yet to be explained is a plot hole? Please be intelligent.


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## KFC (Aug 29, 2012)

Zengetto said:


> which plot holes?



Liiike....I dunno, what the hell happened to Obito after a giant rock fell on him?


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## Terra Branford (Aug 29, 2012)

I like how unexplained story events at the moment automatically means "plotholes".  



Lovely said:


> Can't wait until he starts ranting next chapter.



And we'll only get ranting and flashbacks.


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## Daryoon (Aug 29, 2012)

Nachrael said:


> Well... fuck.
> 
> I can't say I like the idea of Tobi being Obito, but I must admit it. *Tobi is Obito.* And he isn't just some other fellow with Obito's body, he is Obito in body and soul. Those flashbacks were intended for making sure that this guy is real Obito.
> 
> ...



All those can be pretty much tied up by the long-haired Masked Man being a different person to Obito. Which is kinda obvious, unless Obito grew his hair to waist length in the interval between Kyuubi attack and Uchiha massacre, then cut it short again. Just for the lols.

Expect Orochimaru and Zetsu to be integral to all of this.


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## Nodonn (Aug 29, 2012)

KFC said:


> Liiike....I dunno, what the hell happened to Obito after a giant rock fell on him?



We've only seen a single panel of his face, you might want to wait until we actually get some information until you start calling things as plot holes.


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## AceBizzle (Aug 29, 2012)

I will come here next week for an explanation.

But if you look at the flashbacks...it's clear that at least part of his motivation has to do with Rin...

Probably will quit the manga if that's the case


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## TsukasaElkKite (Aug 29, 2012)

*CROWS* I KNEW IT! I FUCKING KNEW IT!


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## Doge (Aug 29, 2012)

KFC said:


> Liiike....I dunno, what the hell happened to Obito after a giant rock fell on him?



Zetsu reanimated him?

Madara found him?

We'll find out in 600 most likely.


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## whitecrowz (Aug 29, 2012)

Maybe Kishi will explain that ST Jutsus also stretch time and that Obito spent a lot of time in the another dimension to train etc ? 

Or maybe a deviation of the Mangekyo thingy where 3 real seconds (or something like that I don't quite remember) equal 72 hours in the Mangekyo ST... 

Because for Obito to know how and when break the seal in 1 or 2 years only and have the Kyubi recognize him is hard to believe... 

Anyway Kishi has to come up with a solid explanation! 

I see this chapter brings back some 05ers... Talk about a major chapter lol


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## BlazingCobaltX (Aug 29, 2012)

I like the way he looks in the panel. 

But damn, he's a liar first class.


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## Eternity (Aug 29, 2012)

Loved the chapter, and unlike what all the butthurt people say, this is good writing from Kishi. 



Ezekial said:


> Terrible writing, I admit I was wrong, but seriously you cant buy this BS



I sense your back end is hurt.


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## Dattebayo-chan (Aug 29, 2012)

It's finally confirmed. I've been really curious since least week. I'm not surprised it's Obito though. I was never sure, but I never disregarded the possibility. 

But now I want to know what caused Obito to go evil.


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## Federer (Aug 29, 2012)

Shit makes no sense.

I'll just wait and see if Kishi can come up with an explanation.


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## InfusionZ (Aug 29, 2012)

He has good reason to be a villain 

He hates Kakashi and Gai...

And probably many other people from leaf village...
he just wants revenge


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## Jake CENA (Aug 29, 2012)

Whats so terrible about the writing? LMAO give Kishi a chance to explain.. 

So much butthurt. All of you haters seem to forget about the whole parralel thing going on in the manga..


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## gabzilla (Aug 29, 2012)




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## eHav (Aug 29, 2012)

Eternity said:


> Loved the chapter, and unlike what all the butthurt people say, this is good writing from Kishi.
> 
> 
> 
> I sense your back end is hurt.





not ever


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## Kusa (Aug 29, 2012)

Butthurt over people who don't like the Idea at all ?


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## Eternity (Aug 29, 2012)

eHav said:


> not ever





Yes. It was.


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## Nic (Aug 29, 2012)

I actually love the development from a writing standpoint.  Obito was the best character to produce a strong reaction from the readers and the characters in the manga.


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## Wolfgang Grimmer (Aug 29, 2012)

Jotun said:


> WHO IS LAUGHING NOW
> 
> can not seem to find my other treads, archived maybe



wow you have roughly 1 post per year


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## Nuuskis (Aug 29, 2012)

Daryoon said:


> All those can be pretty much tied up by the long-haired Masked Man being a different person to Obito. Which is kinda obvious, unless Obito grew his hair to waist length in the interval between Kyuubi attack and Uchiha massacre, then cut it short again. Just for the lols.
> 
> Expect Orochimaru and Zetsu to be integral to all of this.



I would explain Obito growing his hair long so he would resemble as much Madara as possible so he would fool Kisame and Itachi.

The long haired masked man is not different person, because Kisame recognized Obito's face as Madara.


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## 8Apedemak8 (Aug 29, 2012)

TerminaTHOR said:


> Whats so terrible about the writing? LMAO give Kishi a chance to explain..
> 
> So much butthurt. All of you haters seem to forget about the whole parralel thing going on in the manga..



This


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## Lovely (Aug 29, 2012)

I just hope he doesn't turn all desperate now that his disguise broke. Don't think he can pull off the nonchalant "I don't really give two fucks" attitude anymore.


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## gjoerulv (Aug 29, 2012)

lol it's funny to see how people jump to conclusions and complain without even a second thought this fast (but as always).

Obito's body was kinda obvious. Mind not 100% confirmed, but that flashback hammered the nail far in.

Bad writing? I would say excellent writing, concerning that flashback. It mirrored Naruto nicely, and the transition was perfect.

Anti tobito people are just angry because it makes themselves look stupid. <- truth.

Deal with it!


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## Matta Clatta (Aug 29, 2012)

Man I couldn't get on this thread for hours
Shout out to all the tobi fans who never lost hope


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## Uchiha Q (Aug 29, 2012)

BIG HAHAHAHAHAHA to the haters of the obito theory, in yo face bitch!


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## First Tsurugi (Aug 29, 2012)

OBITO BITCHES!


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## Hydro Spiral (Aug 29, 2012)

Should've known that we'd be getting another villain with a bit of a sob story


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## Aeiou (Aug 29, 2012)

Nic said:


> It's actually quite simple, Kishi is drawing a parallel between young obito and young Naruto.



He showed this a little earlier, when Itachi said that Naruto could end up just like Tobi, in the future.


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## falsepod (Aug 29, 2012)

Not been on here for ages but had to come back for this reveal. For all the people calling plot holes I see none. Well apart from "he was such a nice guy, why'd he turn evil" and thats pretty much shown in this chapter, brilliantly I might add. He's bitter and wants everyone to be the same under his infinite tsukyomi. Its peace he wants, he's kind of an anti-hero really. So to all people saying this is bad writing, you're completely missing the point and I'd respond how would you have done it better? Because I personally think this is some class writing from Kishi and shows just how much he had planned out way back when.


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## Jay. (Aug 29, 2012)




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## Zen-aku (Aug 29, 2012)

SWEET VINDICATION!


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## Deshi Basara (Aug 29, 2012)

*FUCK YEAH!

OBITO was the best option!The only option that would cause insane drama and entertainment.PERIOD!No one gives a shit about f'n Izunas!*


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## gershwin (Aug 29, 2012)

What doesnt make sence is Obito`s honest hatred for the Senju and "their" WoF


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## Penance (Aug 29, 2012)

Klue said:


> Damn it, he is Obito.



The MAN...the LEGEND...


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## m1cojakle (Aug 29, 2012)

Its not confirmed.  Why is this here?


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## OgreMagi (Aug 29, 2012)

why is this thread stickied?  obito isn't confirmed lol - 600 big reveal.


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## Penance (Aug 29, 2012)

Sure it is...


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## Hydro Spiral (Aug 29, 2012)

m1cojakle said:


> Its not confirmed.  Why is this here?



O c'mon bro 

The chapter title, the shyrstorm of Obito flashbacks, the little note on the last page_ "Finally Revealed! His name is Obito!!"_

I'm not a particular fan of the theory, but this is as blatant as it gets.


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## Terra Branford (Aug 29, 2012)

It is practically confirmed now, but I suppose the anti-Tobitos are right; it hasn't officially been confirmed it is Obito. 

The chances of it not being Obito now, though, is roughly 1%. The flashback kinda seals it, I think.


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## Kaitou (Aug 29, 2012)

The amount of butthurt that I keep seeing about Tobi being Obito is hilarious...On YT and other places. 

HAHAHAHHAA


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## jacamo (Aug 29, 2012)

his body/eye is confirmed.... but not his mind

if its both body and mind i accept defeat


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## Mochi (Aug 29, 2012)

Oh Kishi.


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## Chocoholic ♡ (Aug 29, 2012)

I'm surprised so many people are disappointed. 

I loved the chapter, it was kind of heart-softening and all. Drew a nice parallel of what Obito was and is; summed it all up.
I _am_  getting a bit annoyed about all the teams being the same, though. 

Now I'm really interested in how Kishi is going to explain all of this; I hope it won't be because of Rin, it would be such an overreaction. 
He better have a good reason for being this evil; he 'died' a hero, not a villain, I hope he stays that way. 
Though I'm not sure which I'd prefer more if it comes to choosing between distorted morality or being controlled. I'd love him to be Obito with his mind and soul, but I'd hate him to be a villain. 
Oh well, guess we can't have it both ways. 

And I have to admit it, Kishi pulled off Obito's looks far better than I had expected.  


Oh, and: *fuck yeah!* 
I've been waiting for this moment for years; at one point I've given up the theory because it really seemed hopless, but I've always hoped it would somehow come true. It even got me back to reading the manga.


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## Mikaveli (Aug 29, 2012)




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## Lelouch71 (Aug 29, 2012)

Flynn said:


> Team Minato and Team Seven. So similar yet so different no?


Minato=Kakashi: One is happy-go-lucky and the other gloomy and nonchalant but the are both geniuses.

Rin=Sakura: They both had the hots for the genius of their team while ignoring the goofball team member feelings. The only difference is Rin seems a lot nicer and isn't a bitch.

Kakashi=Sasuke: The "cool" and nonchalant genius of the team except Kakashi is actually cool. Kakashi is essentially what a grown up Sasuke would had been like if he had given up revenge. Instead Sasuke get corrupted and now he's borderline evil.

Obito=Naruto: The goofball of the team that was a complete failure. They had a crush on their female team member. They both wanted to be hokage for acknowledgement. They were also jealous of their genius team member. Obito became corrupted. Naruto became Jesus.


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## Easley (Aug 29, 2012)

Hydro Spiral said:


> Should've known that we'd be getting another villain with a bit of a sob story


I'll give Kishi the benefit of the doubt. Obito can't possibly be worse than Nagato for sob stories, right? umm


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## Deleted member 45015 (Aug 29, 2012)

​


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## CC Ravis (Aug 29, 2012)

Sawyer 

So the reason Tobi was so good at pretending to be a noob is because he actually was a noob.


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## Mistshadow (Aug 29, 2012)

jacamo said:


> hardly surprising... Kishi built it up





jacamo said:


> still not confirmed Obito's mind
> 
> come at me





jacamo said:


> his body/eye is confirmed.... but not his mind
> 
> if its both body and mind i accept defeat



dude your so full of shit you change your theory opinions EVERY week with more reveal, and you still want to.

WHO DO YOU THINK IT IS THEN. Kagami!? lol


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## Menacing Eyes (Aug 29, 2012)

The entire flashback before we saw his face was just heart wrenching, and it set the mood perfectly, especially because there were no words... beautiful.


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## Krippy (Aug 29, 2012)

I have to say, I did not see this coming. Really.


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## calinz (Aug 29, 2012)

Lelouch71 said:


> Minato=Kakashi: One is happy-go-lucky and the other gloomy and nonchalant but the are both geniuses.
> 
> Rin=Sakura: They both had the hots for the genius of their team while ignoring the goofball team member feelings. The only difference is Rin seems a lot nicer and isn't a bitch.
> 
> ...



I basically came to post this. Well said. Kishimoto clearly wanted to show us the "other path" Naruto could have taken and ended up like Obito. Very nice parallel with the rest of the characters too. I also thought that Kakashi kinda kept up his rivalry with Gai, because of Obito.. but that's just the impression I got from the silent flashback.


----------



## Raging Bird (Aug 29, 2012)

Kishi played it safe with this chapter, He didn't give an explanation in order to keep us reading. Going insane because you got friendzoned . I actually like the Obito we saw the in flash backs.


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 29, 2012)

Raging Bird said:


> Kishi played it safe with this chapter, He didn't give an explanation in order to keep us reading. Going insane because you got friendzoned . I actually like the Obito we saw the in flash backs.



Who is to say that is why he turned out the way he turned out?


----------



## Leuconoe (Aug 29, 2012)

Congratulations, Tobito theorists! <3 The telegrams belong to you today!


----------



## Klue (Aug 29, 2012)

Terra Branford said:


> Who is to say that is why he turned out the way he turned out?



What?

It's beyond obvious.


----------



## Flynn (Aug 29, 2012)

jacamo said:


> his body/eye is confirmed.... but not his mind
> 
> if its both body and mind i accept defeat



But there's the entire 15 page flashback....

Only thing that can be added on to this confirmation in the upcoming chapters to somewhat debunk this, is that there is also another persona inside Tobi besides Obito. Another person besides Obito that controls the body.


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 29, 2012)

Klue said:


> What?
> 
> It's beyond obvious.



Nuh-uh, no it isn't.


----------



## Wolfgang Grimmer (Aug 29, 2012)

Obito was looking back at Minato's face 
*rin*negan


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 29, 2012)

projectcapsule said:


> Obito was looking back at Minato's face
> *rin*negan



I think that might just be artistic shadowing.

Though I wouldn't be against her having it.


----------



## NaruMyaku (Aug 29, 2012)

That's disappointing....
But what the fuck?!
Did Obito lie for no reason to Kisame when he claimed he gave the Rinnegan to Nagato?
Or is Obito a time traveling ninja?

If it's someone using his body then why mask himself?

Either way all 3 options seem like bad writting to me... if anyone can think of a fourth more plausible option let me know


----------



## LILBTHEBASEDGOD (Aug 29, 2012)

It's Obito- Lil B

*(USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)*


----------



## Cheirete (Aug 29, 2012)

I guess that after so many years of theories that Tobi is Obito, after this revelation we can finally say that in 2012 the world is ending.


----------



## jtjohno (Aug 29, 2012)

ok i just got trolled by this obito crap sorry i dont like the idea i hope this obito we seen in this chapted is the clone toby stole from zetsu before he joined the war


----------



## Eternity (Aug 29, 2012)

jtjohno said:


> ok i just got trolled by this obito crap sorry i dont like the idea i hope this obito we seen in this chapted is the clone toby stole from zetsu before he joined the war



New members registering just to hate on the chapter...


----------



## Methos (Aug 29, 2012)

I 've been reading the forums for a long time.
I always believed that Tobi is Obito, but sometimes there actual ESSAYS saying otherwise haha.
What made me a believer from the very beginning was the Kakashi Gaiden.
Why on earth make a gaiden about Kakashi at that particular time, between naruto and Shipuuden?? To let us know how he got the sharingan?? There could have been gaidens about the sannin, the kages, the whole lore and we get a story about one sharingan??
Nope, we were introduced to something much more important.
But everybody was "cool, thats how he got the eye".
we forgot that
"A shinobi must see the hidden meanings within the hidden meanings"

Just my 2 cents, no need for flaming


----------



## Stormcloak (Aug 29, 2012)

I was wrong then


----------



## jtjohno (Aug 29, 2012)

the only thing i can think of is that obito we see in this chapter is the clone toby took from zetsu before joining the war


----------



## Komoyaru (Aug 29, 2012)

Such a epic reveal but sucky writing. At least that came quicker than usual! But it will be very interesting to see the story behind Obito becoming Tobi.


----------



## Menacing Eyes (Aug 29, 2012)

Obito looks like Madara.


----------



## Gaawa-chan (Aug 29, 2012)

I am glad.  All I wanted was a concrete connection between Tobi and Obito, and I got... quite a bit more than that, it seems.


----------



## Boradis (Aug 29, 2012)

I had half been expecting another fake-out, but honestly who else could it be?

Obito theorists, take heart. You will now have to put up with those who's theories didn't pan out chalking it up to "bad writing." Lots of people do this when something doesn't go the way they were guessing or hoping. Ignore it, they're just being defensive. No one likes to be proven wrong, and not enough people are mature enough to admit it and move on.

In truth it would only be "bad writing" if it had no point, and that has yet to be determined. Obviously something terrible happened to Obito after that cavern collapsed that radically altered his world view. I'm sure we'll find that out at some point.

This does put the fight between him and Minato in a new light, considering how he seemed to be caught so flat-footed. He of all people should have known how fast Minato was.


----------



## Wez ★ (Aug 29, 2012)

Lelouch71 said:


> Minato=Kakashi: One is happy-go-lucky and the other gloomy and nonchalant but the are both geniuses.
> 
> Rin=Sakura: They both had the hots for the genius of their team while ignoring the goofball team member feelings. The only difference is Rin seems a lot nicer and isn't a bitch.
> 
> ...


      .


----------



## jtjohno (Aug 29, 2012)

Eternity said:


> New members registering just to hate on the chapter...





i just hate the fact that toby is obito chapter was fine could have been better


----------



## m1cojakle (Aug 29, 2012)

U guys jump to conclusions.  delete this thread.


----------



## Skywalker (Aug 29, 2012)

Eternity said:


> New members registering just to hate on the chapter...


They'll been scared off soon enough.


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 29, 2012)

m1cojakle said:


> U guys jump to conclusions.  delete this thread.


----------



## Kaitou (Aug 29, 2012)

Menacing Eyes said:


> Obito looks like Madara.



Lolhe does.


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 29, 2012)

Maybe, I don't know how, Obito has half of Madara's face...?


----------



## PositiveEmotions (Aug 29, 2012)

please don't be so harsh on me if you disagree.

kakashi looks at obito all shocked.

*Kakashi:* Why are you doing this Obito?.

*Gai*: Are you really Obito?.

*Obito*: Since you all know that is me there is no reason in lying.

*Flashback*

Madara saves Obito.

*Obito*: Who are you and why did you save me?.

*Madara*: I am Madara Uchiha.

*Obito*: 0.0 !!!! your suppose to be dead.

*Madara*: I faked my death.

*Obito*: !!!!.

*Madara:* I need you to do something for me but in order to do it you will need zetzu to take care of your wounded right side of your body.

Madara explains his plans to Obito.

*Obito*: NO I REFUSE TO BE PART OF YOUR PLAN!!!, I WILL FIND MY FRIENDS KAKASHI AND RINN AND PROTECT THEM, THEY STILL THINK I AM DEAD.

Madara grabs Obito and teleports obito to a battle field while hiding.

*Madara:* Do you see rinn?

*Obito*: RIN WATCH OUT!!!.

Rinn dies by an unknown shinobi and obito sees that kakashi failed to protect rinn.

*Obito*: !!!!! K.....K...Kakashi you failed to protect rin why 0.0.

*Madara*: See Obito there willl never be piece unless you finish what i couldn't finish......THE MOON EYE PLAN!!!.

Obito has a angry look at his face.

*Obito*: What do I have to do?

*Madara*: First you need to know the history of the Uchiha clan and the the leaf village.

*Obito*: The leaf betrayed us?

*Madara*: Yes now do you see why I need you to finish my plan for me.

*Obito*: I WILL SUCCEED WITH THIS PLAN AND NO ONE WILL STOP ME!!.

*Flashback ends**

*Gai*: so you are Obito.

*Kakashi*:!!!!.

Chapter 600 ends 

i dont have a explanation for the rinnigan part its why i didnt put it there guys so sorry about that.​


----------



## Flynn (Aug 29, 2012)

^Well, it should just be moved to the chapter 600 prediction thread is all.


----------



## Friday (Aug 29, 2012)

Loved it. Loved the chapter. Like many others, I've been waiting for this for years. It had to be him.


----------



## PositiveEmotions (Aug 29, 2012)

Flynn said:


> ^Well, it should just be moved to the chapter 600 prediction thread is all.



Couldnt find it


----------



## Shippochan (Aug 29, 2012)

Most people are probably having a reaction of "WTF is this shit? this is a huge troll how does obito go from a clumsy kid good at heart to someone who wants to take control of the whole world and is fighting everyone? and he changed in like 2 years. not to mention his body was clearly smashed by boulders. makes no sense. kishi just screwed up big time.

Be patient. Kishi definitely has a lot of explaining to do now. He has to tie everything together and tell us how exactly Tobi can be Obito. Why did Obito go through such a change? And why was he already an adult when he fought Minato? Kishi really has killed the databook. I thought Tobi can't be Obito because it wouldn't make sense. Congratulations Kishi. You have trolled the whole world. Kubo must be proud. Let's hope Kishi can come up with something convincing so that we can accept Tobi being Obito. I still think it would have made more sense to make him Izuna, Kagami, or the elder son of the sage.


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 29, 2012)

Shippochan said:


> Most people are probably having a reaction of "*WTF is this shit? this is a huge troll how does obito go from a clumsy kid good at heart to someone who wants to take control of the whole world and is fighting everyone?* and he changed in like 2 years. not to mention his body was clearly smashed by boulders. makes no sense. kishi just screwed up big time..



How did Naruto manage to go from a clumsy, clownish idiot to what he is now? Time, events, training and determination. Something similar can happen for someone else too, you know. :sigh

And so what about the boulder? People died when Pain attacked the village, and they were all brought back and I'm sure THOUSANDS of them got smashed by boulders,  buildings, beams and more.


----------



## minirasengan25 (Aug 29, 2012)

Ever since Tobi talked angrily to Kakashi I knew it.


----------



## Flynn (Aug 29, 2012)

PositiveEmotions said:


> Couldnt find it


----------



## Samehada (Aug 29, 2012)

Wouldn't say its terrible writing per say...

Gives development on Kakashi in both character and strength. Kishi has promised some sort of big event with Kakashi and finally delivered. Plus, Tobi was already foreshadowed to be the Anti-Naruto. The person Naruto could become, as Itachi stated. Obito and Naruto were almost exactly the same in personalities, it should be no surprise that Kishi is giving us a lesson on how important it is to "keep on believing."


----------



## Raiden (Aug 29, 2012)

It's not terrible writing at all. Just obvious.

What does remain strange though is that someone who appears so grimly serious would act like a goofball.


----------



## UberDruid (Aug 29, 2012)

Obito = Tobi fits the your best friend turned evil theme.

Danzou - Hiruzen
Orochimaru - Jiraiya
Obito - Kakashi
Sasuke - Naruto


----------



## Yagura (Aug 29, 2012)

I'm still counting on the multiple Tobi theory.


----------



## Deshi Basara (Aug 29, 2012)

UberDruid said:


> Obito = Tobi fits the your best friend turned evil theme.
> 
> Danzou - Hiruzen
> Orochimaru - Jiraiya
> ...



*You can add Madara-Hashirama as well.They were each's favorite person to fight and apparently respected the hell out of eachother.Madara didn't turn insanely evil until his own clan turned on him in favor of Hashirama..*


----------



## Skywalker (Aug 29, 2012)

Obito just went the way of Anakin Skywalker.


----------



## Closet Pervert (Aug 29, 2012)

Have you seen the episode _Crawl Space_ of Breaking Bad? Walt at the end, that was me when i saw the first page of the chapter.


----------



## Edo Madara (Aug 29, 2012)




----------



## Palpatine (Aug 29, 2012)

Surprisingly satisfying chapter.

Obito betrayed and killed Madara, then stole his identity. Calling it now.


----------



## Descent of the Lion (Aug 29, 2012)

DUH.


That is all.


----------



## AMtrack (Aug 29, 2012)

Palpatine said:


> Surprisingly satisfying chapter.
> 
> Obito betrayed and killed Madara, then stole his identity. Calling it now.



If Obito managed to do this, he would become my new favorite character.

A. Madara fans would be horribly trolled.

B. It would make Obito one bad mutha.


----------



## Palpatine (Aug 29, 2012)

AMtrack said:


> If Obito managed to do this, he would become my new favorite character.
> 
> A. Madara fans would be horribly trolled.
> 
> B. It would make Obito one bad mutha.



I'd be lying if I said this wasn't part of the reason I wanted it to happen.


----------



## featherduster (Aug 29, 2012)

OH NO HE'S HOT


----------



## Killer Zylos Wolf (Aug 29, 2012)

I'm fine with this. I'm sure Kishi will have a reasonable enough explanation that some people wont bother trying to understand and still bitch for this. 

Although, I do believe that there has been cover pages, and databook pages, maybe even interviews where Kishi uses Madara's name instead of Tobi's, which I wish he would have done instead, I know he needs to make most people not expect Tobi is Obito, but these things shouldn't have lies in them, if Zetsu was calling Tobi "Tobi" all this time, I don't see why the cover pages and whatnot couldn't do the same, other then that I'm completely fine with this. 

I do hope Kishi makes things more complex though, but whatever, it's finally over...not sure if I should be happy or not though, just more realization that it's all coming to an end soon...I'll probably never get into another story like Naruto ever again.


----------



## AnimeGreatNinja (Aug 29, 2012)

Can't believe I just noticed the goggles thing, Naruto hasn't worn them in forever...
Now that it's 100% confirmed, I truly see how broken Obito was...

not that I care. Obito is awesome


----------



## Palpatine (Aug 29, 2012)

AnimeGreatNinja said:


> Can't believe I just noticed the goggles thing, Naruto hasn't worn them in forever...
> Now that it's 100% confirmed, I truly see how broken Obito was...
> 
> not that I care. Obito is awesome



Naruto wore goggles?


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 29, 2012)

Palpatine said:


> Naruto wore goggles?



How can you forget that?! He wore them before he became a Genin! Konohamaru and his gang wore them because of Naruto.


----------



## Palpatine (Aug 29, 2012)

Terra Branford said:


> How can you forget that?! He wore them before he became a Genin! Konohamaru and his gang wore them because of Naruto.



It's been so damn long that I forgot. 

Well, that's even more reason Obito is dark parallel to Naruto.


----------



## Nuuskis (Aug 29, 2012)

Palpatine said:


> Naruto wore goggles?



Before he got his forehead protector.


----------



## Descent of the Lion (Aug 29, 2012)

*Tobi isn't Obito*

He just has his eye, legs, heart, half his brain, teeth, blood, hair, immortal soul, id, super ego, background history, a similar list of fears, dreams, and  uses the same type of tooth paste. 


Other than that he's probably Izuna or a log using a henge or something.

Anything but the thing that was spelled out to us over the course of months.


----------



## KARASUTENGU (Aug 29, 2012)

Jesus Christ.

Since Tobi first appeared in 2006 after the Sakura vs. Sasori fight we all suspected it was him. Even so, Kishi revealed the obvious *with style.*

ADSFASJHFGASDKJFGASGFDJAHGSDHJADFJKASF45123412543111!!1 

There, I'm done.


----------



## Hossaim (Aug 29, 2012)

He is Obito.

Why is he obito?

Because Kishi cannot write for fucking shit.


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 29, 2012)

Palpatine said:


> It's been so damn long that I forgot.
> 
> Well, that's even more reason Obito is dark parallel to Naruto.



Wasn't that already a piece of the Tobi = Obito theory? I could have sworn I read it someplace here....


----------



## Palpatine (Aug 29, 2012)

Terra Branford said:


> Wasn't that already a piece of the Tobi = Obito theory? I could have sworn I read it someplace here....



It probably was. I just forgot the whole goggles thing so I didn't pick up on it.


----------



## Mako (Aug 29, 2012)

What.


----------



## Palpatine (Aug 29, 2012)

It's still hard to picture Obito behind this deep menacing voice.

[YOUTUBE]MIgraztNm2s[/YOUTUBE]

Or this


----------



## First Tsurugi (Aug 29, 2012)

I'm still finding it hard to call him Obito instead of Tobi.

Habits are hard to break.



Palpatine said:


> It's still hard to picture Obito behind this deep menacing voice.
> 
> [YOUTUBE]MIgraztNm2s[/YOUTUBE]
> 
> Or this


----------



## Nuuskis (Aug 29, 2012)

Try to imagine Obito with Japanese voice of Tobi's.

And Jesus, I didn't know dubbed Naruto is already at that part of the story?

But I am wondering how will Edo Madara sound like?


----------



## Zetamancer (Aug 29, 2012)

I am completely okay with him being Obito. There were clues early on.

What I'm not okay with, is that he was somehow a full grown man, and controlled the Mizukage and ordered Kisame from the shadows. 

He fought Minato and Kushina on the day of Naruto's birth. Some how a fullgrown man.

I think Kishi just added too much shit and forgot. either way, all the back story set him up to be someone older.


----------



## Palpatine (Aug 29, 2012)

I'm still willing to bet he has multiple personas. Either from insanity or from Madara's influence. That would explain how he could change his voice and behavior so drastically.

It would also explain Zetsu's harsh treatment of him in his introduction.


----------



## Flynn (Aug 29, 2012)

So did the rescue ninja ever try and bring back Obito's dead body for his grave? Or did they just think that it would just be too beat up and left it under the boudlers?


----------



## Menacing Eyes (Aug 29, 2012)

Nachrael said:


> Try to imagine Obito with Japanese voice of Tobi's.
> 
> And Jesus, I didn't know dubbed Naruto is already at that part of the story?
> 
> But I am wondering how will Edo Madara sound like?


In an ideal world he would be voiced by Naoya Uchida, but since that's Obito's voice I've got nothing.


----------



## Scizor (Aug 29, 2012)

Awesome. Obito is seriously badass right now.

Though the way everything'll be explained is still very important, I'm really hyped right now. Thinking that everything Tobi did was actually Obito is mind blowing and awesome imo.


----------



## PoisonIvy (Aug 29, 2012)

I looked up Tobi on Narutopedia and was redirected to the Obito page. 

Teheheheh <3


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 29, 2012)

Nachrael said:


> Try to imagine Obito with Japanese voice of Tobi's.
> 
> And Jesus, I didn't know dubbed Naruto is already at that part of the story?
> 
> But I am wondering how will Edo Madara sound like?



I didn't know it was that far either...can't seem to find them online.


----------



## Palpatine (Aug 29, 2012)

Terra Branford said:


> I didn't know it was that far either...can't seem to find them online.



It could be dialogue from the game dubbed over the scene. I don't know.


----------



## kzk (Aug 29, 2012)

God, what shitty writing. I have no problem with Tobi being Obito if it had been set up properly, but for every piece of circumstantial evidence or coincidence that was written to suggest that's who Tobi was, another piece of canon was added that makes it very difficult, if not impossible, for it to work. The timeline is fucked, the entire chapter with Minato and Kushina makes no fucking sense, half the shit he said regarding Nagato was a pointless lie, and now I suspect we'll be treated to some sob story about how he couldn't stand the loss of Rin. I'll give next week a shot to explain this, but I'm pretty sure from here on out I'll be finishing Naruto just for the sake of finishing it.


----------



## AlphaReaver (Aug 29, 2012)

TOBITO LIVES!!


----------



## Shukumei (Aug 29, 2012)

Nachrael said:


> But I am wondering how will Edo Madara sound like?





Menacing Eyes said:


> In an ideal world he would be voiced by Naoya Uchida, but since that's Obito's voice I've got nothing.


If Tobi does somehow have some Madara element, he'll probably have Naoya Uchida as well. Same goes for if Tobi's silly voice is his real one (he spoke more seriously about the C4 Karura during the Deidara/Sasuke fight) and he's just emulating Madara's voice for his 'Madara' persona.

If they have different voice actors, however, I'm expecting someone like Fumihiko Tachiki for Edo!Madara. He's actually who I first pictured Tobi's "Madara" having before they revealed Naoya Uchida. Failing that (though I'd be disappointed), perhaps Hiroki Touchi? I think Tachiki'd fit better, though. Failing that, perhaps Sho Hayami? If Madara isn't one of those three, I'll be disappointed, unless they find someone similar who fits.


----------



## Hydro Spiral (Aug 29, 2012)

Man, wouldn't it be something else if Rin is the reason why Obito says that he's just "No One"?


----------



## Cobalt (Aug 29, 2012)

I knew it was going to be Obito for years


----------



## Shadow Slayer (Aug 29, 2012)

It was so obvious.


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 29, 2012)

Palpatine said:


> It could be dialogue from the game dubbed over the scene. I don't know.



Well, unless my googling powers suck, then something like that may be the case. I can't find dubbed Naruto episodes online anymore.


----------



## The Weeknd (Aug 29, 2012)

Funny because people knew this for about 3-4 years


----------



## Butō Rengoob (Aug 29, 2012)

Well if everyone's happy Kishi took a decent kind-hearted character and completely fucked over his honorable death and giving him some shit excuse to turn evil (which is inevitable), far be it from me to question it.


----------



## Palpatine (Aug 29, 2012)

This revelation somehow makes his behavior in this fight more disturbing.


----------



## l1fted (Aug 29, 2012)

Descent of the Lion said:


> He just has his eye, legs, heart, half his brain, teeth, blood, hair, immortal soul, id, super ego, background history, a similar list of fears, dreams, and  uses the same type of tooth paste.
> 
> 
> Other than that he's probably Izuna or a log using a henge or something.
> ...





Most likely this. 


HAHA DAMN THIS FEELS GOOD! My reaction when reading this chapter was very similar to terra branford's sig.


----------



## Soulme (Aug 29, 2012)

This version of tobi may be Obito, but the one that fought the 4th hokage wasn't. Remeber we saw kakashi as a kid/teenager there and thinking kakashi and obito are the same age... there is no way that that was also obito.

Of course there is the theory that time in the kamui dimension passes faster so maybe he trained there  for some time and that's how he was older when he fought minato.

Anyway.... it's nice to finally see the face behind the mask


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 29, 2012)

Palpatine said:


> This revelation somehow makes his behavior in this fight more disturbing.


----------



## Palpatine (Aug 29, 2012)

Terra Branford said:


> So since its Obito, what was up with the arm? Why did it fall off like it was goop?  Zetsu goop?



Either Obito is partially made up of Zetsu goo, or that wasn't Obito back then. 

The latter is still a possibility.


----------



## ShadeX23 (Aug 29, 2012)

He did it, Kishimoto finally did it! We have finally seen Tobi's FACE!


*Spoiler*: __ 



[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pM8QA5ZX6fI[/YOUTUBE]


 

Yeah, this was a long time coming, though in Kishimoto's defense, the recent focus on Shisui (prior to chapter 594), as well as Obito being able to back up his claims of being Madara prior to the real one's resurrection really did throw us a curve ball. But back when Tobi first showed up as the masked clown, everyone already thought he was truly Obito even before he claimed to be Madara.

But honestly, I thought this was the most tasteful reveal possible. With no context besides some dialog hinting towards Obito's past in the last few chapters, we get a full flashback showing the life and dreams of this normal child. He wanted to be hokage, like Naruto, and as time passed, he grew closer and closer to Rin, even though she liked Kakashi. He grew up and grew closer to his goals, becoming a chunin and moving up in the world, until it was all dashed away.. and then we saw a face as broken as his dreams. This chapter gave Obito all the additional backstory he needed (pre-"death", of course.. there's still a TON we need to know after the cave in occurred) and gives the reader some incite into the past he had in Konoha. 

As for the reveal of his face itself.. it's nothing special. It's literally just Obito with.. urm, half-old face, more than likely caused by the boulder crushing his right side beyond recognition. In fact, it's rather close to plenty of fan art that's been floating around. But the fact that it's official, bona-fide Kishimoto artwork in an official manga just makes it all the more surreal.

Thematically though, Obito was the best choice: he looks like Naruto, and currently, his ideals are pretty much identically to Naruto's: he wants to create everlasting peace. However, the means he intends to use are what makes him evil, and clearly shows the nobility in Naruto's goal and the malice behind Obito's. 

But now that the mask is off, the true mystery begins: what role does Obito play in all this? How does he know Madara? How is he "a hawk born from a kite", or a child born of extraordinary parents, as his alias Tobi would suggest? What actions did Obito himself commit, and which ones did Madara commit, but Obito claimed to do while mascaraing as Madara? What turned him to the dark-side? And finally, how does Obito know the history OF Madara and beyond so well?

Of course, there's plenty of theories out there. For one, I really think Rin's death is one reason why Obito became the archvillain we know him as. Plus, it would easily explain how both he and Kakashi awakened the Mangekyo (although Kakashi could have found out about Rin's death much later than Obito, thus explaining how he only activated it recently while Obito was clearly using his version of Kamui when facing off against Minato). But I doubt it's the only reason. My guess is his connection to Madara, whatever it may be, also plays a big role (duh).

Now there's his connection to Madara. I say either he's a direct ancestor (not merely a member of the clan, but rather someone straight from his lineage), or, in the same way that Yamato, as Kabuto put it, is a living copy of the First Hokage, Obito is a living copy of Madara, with Zetsu playing a roll in his recreation, thus explaining the white goop, ability to replace limbs, and having both Senju and Uchiha DNA. I mean, even after Kabuto unveiled his knowledge of the real Madara to Obito, Obito continued to claim things such as fighting Hashirama himself to gather his DNA and create the living statue, so... go figure. 

I could go on, but damn, Kishimoto HAS to do a good job of tying the knot on this deal. You guys claim Obito was the obvious candidate, but he's the hardest one to shape the plot around, so I applaud Kishi for not taking the easy way out. It's all about the execution now.

......btw, I loved the mistake in today's issue where Obito's posing next to the 4 hokages.... even though the 4th wasn't inaugurated as hokage at that point in time


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 29, 2012)

Palpatine said:


> Either Obito is partially made up of Zetsu goo, or that wasn't Obito back then.
> 
> The latter is still a possibility.



Either seems very possible. I wouldn't mind it not being Obito with the fight against Minato, but how Tobi was acting _then_ seemed too much like the _now_ Tobi, which is Obit, and from what we've seen of Obito. 

It will probably end up being Zetsu goop courtesy of Madara or something.


----------



## Combine (Aug 29, 2012)

Real Madara should be voiced by Norio Wakamoto


----------



## Mako (Aug 29, 2012)

Now we need Kishi to explain this complete mess.


----------



## NarutoQuack (Aug 29, 2012)

Descent of the Lion said:


> He just has his eye, legs, heart, half his brain, teeth, blood, hair, immortal soul, id, super ego, background history, a similar list of fears, dreams, and  uses the same type of tooth paste.
> 
> 
> Other than that he's probably Izuna or a log using a henge or something.
> ...



i loled


----------



## Milkomeda (Aug 29, 2012)

Combine said:


> Real Madara should be voiced by Norio Wakamoto



There is already one episode of a flashback where Real Madara briefly says one word. His voice sounds deeper than Tobis (I really wish I could remember the episode number)


----------



## YUNA476 (Aug 29, 2012)

After re-reading Chapter 597, I'm convinced Tobi is definitely Obito, but I'm going to wait until next week before I start making any predictions. 

Still really shocked.


----------



## Kduff (Aug 29, 2012)

There is still a mastermind behind Obito... or at least I'm hoping so, because anyone who can think critically can point out all of the problems with Obito being behind everything. I'm not going into all of those, I don't really care if Tobi is Obito or not, I only care about there being a satisfying explanation as to how it all happened. If there isn't, I will be deeply disappointed. My guess is that whoever Orochimaru is taking Sasuke to is the true mastermind. Then we will see how all of those inconsistencies line up.


----------



## Nic (Aug 29, 2012)

Kduff said:


> There is still a mastermind behind Obito... or at least I'm hoping so, because anyone who can think critically can point out all of the problems with Obito being behind everything. I'm not going into all of those, I don't really care if Tobi is Obito or not, I only care about there being a satisfying explanation as to how it all happened. If there isn't, I will be deeply disappointed. My guess is that whoever Orochimaru is taking Sasuke to is the true mastermind. Then we will see how all of those inconsistencies line up.



I think it's pretty obvious that Madara brainwashed Obito.


----------



## R00t_Decision (Aug 29, 2012)

There's two Obito's. Both midgets ontop of each other, disguised fighting the fourth.


----------



## AoshiKun (Aug 29, 2012)

Before the current Tobi fight the ideia of him being Obito was just a wild one.
I'm gonna wait Kishimoto explain everything before calls that bad writting.


----------



## Grimmjowsensei (Aug 29, 2012)

I LOL'd @ the asspull.

Flashbacks were done nicely but.. Dunno. The first time Tobi appeared, everyone(including myself) thought he was Obito.  Started as a joke theory, but in the end it came to be true. I guess sometimes the simplest and most obvious choice is the right choice afterall.

Fuck you Kishit :/


----------



## Setsuna00 (Aug 29, 2012)

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Suck it haters!!!!! BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA please leave if you don't want to get WTFPWNED for the whole week everytime you post.


----------



## RaptorRage (Aug 29, 2012)

Can't figure out if the right side of his face is supposed to be scarred from the rock collapse or if it is intended to show that side of his face has aged considerably from using kamui in that eye too much.


----------



## James (Aug 29, 2012)

I know everyone doing this is being a bit of a dick but, I can't resist...



I like having posted this now.

And my post here... 

And the first evidence I have of supporting, although I doubted he was the third Mangekyou user.



APOLOGIES FOR THIS, BUT THIS IS THE ONE BANDWAGON I'LL GLADLY JUMP ON.


----------



## Sacrass (Aug 29, 2012)

I'm gonna take a page off Evil's book and post a great video.

Sawyer


----------



## G Felon (Aug 29, 2012)

I don't think Kishi can make a logical explanation for this. There's still going to be so many holes in the story


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 29, 2012)

G Felon said:


> I don't think Kishi can make a logical explanation for this. There's still going to be so many holes in the story



How do you know that? You haven't seen how Kishi will handle, or what is to come...


----------



## Seph (Aug 29, 2012)

He could make a logical explanation by saying it's not just Obito but someone else too. I wouldn't say he's Obito for sure just yet, though he may very well be.


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 29, 2012)

Seph said:


> He could make a logical explanation by saying it's not just Obito but someone else too. I wouldn't say he's Obito for sure just yet, though he may very well be.


True.

That's why I feel more like 60% it is Obito, and 40% that is isn't. 600 will prove or disprove it. Though then again, it could turn out way later in the manga that it isn't really him. Anything is possible.


----------



## Menacing Eyes (Aug 29, 2012)

RaptorRage said:


> Can't figure out if the right side of his face is supposed to be scarred from the rock collapse or if it is intended to show that side of his face has aged considerably from using kamui in that eye too much.


I'm pretty sure it's the rock. Why would Kamui age his face?


----------



## Shadow Slayer (Aug 29, 2012)

Can anyone answer a burning question for me? Where did Obito get a left sharigan eye before he switched it out for Nagato's?


----------



## Jayaraman MinatoItachi (Aug 29, 2012)

I never wanted it to happen. When i see the chapter name i was like so fucked up. This is very very obvious from the beginning. I don't know how may hate will come.

Kishi made it happened sometimes what many of us don't wanted to happen

Eg) Oro coming out of anko's seal
now tobi is obito.

fuck it.


----------



## Jayaraman MinatoItachi (Aug 29, 2012)

Shadow Slayer said:


> Can anyone answer a burning question for me? Where did Obito get a left sharigan eye before he switched it out for Nagato's?



Dude he has bunch of sharingan in his lab. Well nevermind.


----------



## Skywalker (Aug 29, 2012)

Shadow Slayer said:


> Can anyone answer a burning question for me? Where did Obito get a left sharigan eye before he switched it out for Nagato's?


He has a stock of them back in his base.


----------



## Nashima (Aug 29, 2012)

Tobi is obito 100%. Theres no one controling him no one using his body etc etc. Its amazing the mask is off and people still dont want to believe. All i keep seeing is "oh how will kishi explain this" but it can be explained soooo easily. Here let me help, when the second set of rocks were about to fall on him either his ms activated and he warped him self OR someone like zetsu cold have pulled him out. Then zetsu probably patched him up real nice and began to show him some stuff he recorded and that would explain why he knows so much history.

How did he get so strong in such a short period of time? Again he could have learned some tricks to make him self so powerful from what ever he watched. Then you have the whole age thing which i'm sure will be explained. But the way thing are going around here no matter how kishi explains it all people will still cry bad writing when really they just need to realize that this is fiction and the impossible is usually possible no matter how impossible it is.

It cant be obito he was crushed by a rock lol...


----------



## Shadow Slayer (Aug 29, 2012)

Jayaraman MinatoItachi said:


> Dude he has bunch of sharingan in his lab. Well nevermind.



I don't really remember that. Oh well


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 29, 2012)

The same way Danzo got so many? Farmed 'em.


----------



## NW (Aug 29, 2012)

*Tobi is Obito. This is a canon fact.*

Tobi is Obito. That has been proven today. Now, before you go "ZOMFG, HE'S JUST USING HIS BODY!!!! " let me tell you why that cannot be.

Firstly, none of the Tobi candidates have body switching techniques.

Second, even if they did, why take the body of a crushed Uchiha teen? If that person, for some odd reason wanted that eye so badly, then why didn't he take over the body of a healthy Uchiha, and go and take just the eye?

Also, why reveal Tobi as seeming to be someone when he's not really that person? That'd be pretty damn anti-climactic. You'd think the person would be in his own body, so when you recognize him as that person, he's actually that person. The big reveal is meant to reveal his long awaited identity. So, we get a big reveal of him having Obito's face, and then next chapter, the true reveal is just "Nah, man, I'm just Izuna or Kagami in his body." REALLY?!

What's the point of naming the chapter "Uchiha Obito" and have all those flashbacks if he's not really Obito?! If he's just some guy in Obito's body, that'd be STUPID!

Okay. Get it?! Good. Now shut the fuck up and deal with it!

Tobi is Obito!



AoshiKun said:


> Before the current Tobi fight the ideia of him being Obito was just a wild one.


Keep thinking that.  Tobi being Obito was pretty much obvious the whole time.


> I'm gonna wait Kishimoto explain everything before calls that bad writting.


It's nice to see that someone can comprehend the fact that Kishi is writing the manga, not us, thus we don't know what kind of explanation he can give.



Grimmjowsensei said:


> I LOL'd @ the asspull.


It's not an asspull when it's been planned for the majority of the manga! 

People use this term waaaaayyy too loosely.



Terra Branford said:


> Though then again, it could turn out way later in the manga that it isn't really him. Anything is possible.


No, whoever Tobi is revealed to be within the next few weeks, that will be confirmed to be his real identity. Kishi himself said that Tobi's identity would be revealed within the next few weeks. Since none of the Tobi candidates have body switching techniques, Tobi has to be Obito!

Also, people are only waiting for more confirmation because they're assuming Tobi is someone using Obito's body. None of the Tobi candidates have body switching techniques, so Tobi can't be anyone but Obito.


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 29, 2012)

ObitoUchiha111 said:


> No, whoever Tobi is revealed to be within the next few weeks, that will be confirmed to be his real identity. Kishi himself said that Tobi's identity would be revealed within the next few weeks. Since none of the Tobi candidates have body switching techniques, Tobi has to be Obito!
> 
> Also, people are only waiting for more confirmation because they're assuming Tobi is someone using Obito's body. None of the Tobi candidates have body switching techniques, so Tobi can't be anyone but Obito.



I know what was said...sorta. I just like to make sure something is actually that something before I go around claiming its canon. Better safe than sorry. 

I'm a firm Tobi = Obito supporter though.


----------



## ShadeX23 (Aug 29, 2012)

To everyone saying it's not "really" Obito, he's just possessed or something, I just have this to say to you: no. Just no. This chapter proved one thing strongly, and that is how this arc is about Obito's fall to darkness. The memories we witnessed in this issue were provided to deliver even stronger impact when we find out what horrors turned this  happy-go-lucky, hard-working ninja who valued his friends above all else into the monster who murdered and manipulated anyone and anything he could as means to an end. Obito isn't "possessed" by Tobi, he BECOMES Tobi. 

Obito is a fallen hero, and represents what happens when someone full of hope and promise is lost to turmoil and heartbreak. This is further evidenced by just how much he and Naruto look alike: because growing up, they held similar values and goals, but along the way, something broke his spirit and made his blood run cold. He was more than likely tainted by the "Curse of Hatred" that seems to follow all Uchiha. Someone "possessing" him would nullify all of this, and would _truly_ be the "bad writing" you guys keep accusing Kishimoto of. 

Now, I'm not implying that Obito wasn't somehow manipulated into being who he is today, perhaps by Madara, Orochimaru, or even one of the other possible candidates for who Tobi could have been (Izuna or the Elder Path, for example). But it's clear that Obito is Obito, and more than likely did what he did of his own accord. Hell, if anything he's deviating from Madara's original plan, based on Madara's method of revival and how HE wants to be the one to use the Infinite Tsukuyomi. 

So yeah, it's Obito, no ifs, ands, or buts about it. I could be wrong, but again, if it's not Obito beneath the skin, then that will be the only truly poor writing here.


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 30, 2012)

Wow...I just realized there is a Uchiha clan symbol on his back. Holy hell, how did I miss that?!


----------



## B (Aug 30, 2012)

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAA


----------



## kLouD (Aug 30, 2012)

About god damn time Tobi is revealed to be Obito. I mean seriously, all the clues were there. All you non-believers just look the other way trying to give yourselves excuses as to why tobi ISNT obito when in fact, chapter 599 confirms it.

Now to the backstory of tobito, im guessing when obito got crushed by the rocks at the Kannabi Bridge, Madara came through and saved his life with his new creation "zetsu" and healed the other half of his body and made him his disciple. Then with all the Uchiha hate and Obito's jealousy of Kakashi, Obito and Madara made the Moon's Eye plan to take over the world but original madara died and before they could accomplish that. Once Madara died, Obito took over as Madara and used his name to spread the terror. All the other shit as far as the timeline, how he beat the 4th hokage, and how he obtained izanagi goes beyond me... but truth in the matter is... 

TOBI IS MOTHERFUCKING OBITO


----------



## Algol (Aug 30, 2012)

i literally cheered when i saw the first page. hahaha i was so pumped, hell, i am so pumped.



Hossaim said:


> Bad writing.
> 
> Although the reveal was pretty good.



what is bad writing about it?


----------



## Mironbiron (Aug 30, 2012)

Guys.

I forgot what AOL stands for.

What does AOL stand for?


----------



## Palpatine (Aug 30, 2012)

Dude, he wanted rinne tensei to revive Rin. You heard it here first.


----------



## Saru (Aug 30, 2012)

Here we go.


----------



## Mistshadow (Aug 30, 2012)

Mironbiron said:


> Guys.
> 
> I forgot what AOL stands for.
> 
> What does AOL stand for?



Akatsuki Over-Lord


----------



## Ricky Sen (Aug 30, 2012)

Akatsuki Over-Lord? What a crazy time that must've been. It's like the Dark Ages now. Us new guys can only try and imagine how you guys perceived the manga. Minato being the AOL was a legitimate possibility back then, wasn't it? That freaking blows my mind.


----------



## Zeno (Aug 30, 2012)

Minato would never become a bag of shit.


----------



## aiyanah (Aug 30, 2012)

l0000000000000000000000l


----------



## Benzaiten (Aug 30, 2012)

inb4 you weren't able to protect rin so now i will live with her in the perfect world where everyone will love and appreciate me


----------



## BroKage (Aug 30, 2012)

Honestly I think the reveal would've been better if absolutely none of the previous speech hinted that Tobi was Obito.

It'd have been the best troll all year. The rage threads would probably be doubled.


----------



## Talis (Aug 30, 2012)

The chapter itself was awesome, no talking.
Such chapters is meant for epic moments like this 1.


----------



## Arya Stark (Aug 30, 2012)

Narutowiki and TV Tropes updated their pages



I mean look at that face!!!?? He is soo sweet, innocent...


----------



## Kyuubi Naruto (Aug 30, 2012)

What a glorious chapter.

It took me back but at the same time it sort of helped the manga out in a way. We'll understand more, get some information on how he's changed and it brings his development up a few notches. I like it a lot better than had he been some other Uchiha. It'll be nice.


----------



## jacamo (Aug 30, 2012)

Shice said:


> Honestly I think the reveal would've been better if absolutely none of the previous speech hinted that Tobi was Obito.
> 
> It'd have been the best troll all year. The rage threads would probably be doubled.



yeh, Kishi really took out the shock factor didnt he 

im still sticking with someone controlling Obito's body... it would eliminate the plotholes if its not Obito's consciousness, which was always my main issue


----------



## Mantux31 (Aug 30, 2012)

I'll still wait on the backstory


----------



## Scizor (Aug 30, 2012)

jacamo said:


> im still sticking with someone controlling Obito's body... it would eliminate the plotholes if its not Obito's consciousness, which was always my main issue



The flashback pretty much confirms it's Obito in body and in soul, as his face was shown to be under the mask (obviously) and the emotional aspects of the flashback show Obito's awareness.


----------



## Grimmjowsensei (Aug 30, 2012)

Hey what happened to arm clenching ?  Kishi


----------



## Skywalker (Aug 30, 2012)

Moon~ said:


> Narutowiki and TV Tropes updated their pages
> 
> 
> 
> I mean look at that face!!!?? He is soo sweet, innocent...


He isn't that sweet little boy anymore after having his heart broken.


----------



## chan (Aug 30, 2012)

Skywalker said:


> He isn't that sweet little boy anymore after having his heart broken.



loooool :rofl


----------



## Sharingan Lem (Aug 30, 2012)

jacamo said:


> im still sticking with someone controlling Obito's body... it would eliminate the plotholes if its not Obito's consciousness, which was always my main issue



This. 

Mind control of some state. His change of character could be explained through backstory, yes, but I feel that such an explanation would, by extension, render his original dying statements utterly meaningless. 

We knew Tobi had Obito's eye. It wasn't too hard to believe that Tobi would have Half or all of Obito's body either. But for Tobi to actually BE Obito... well... from what we've seen and read through the manga it just wouldn't make any sense. 

For now, I will cling to the QUESTION MARK in this page of that chapter another retcon

According to that translation, it's only the name that's surfaced. We'll see what the de-masked man says in reponse next chapter!


----------



## Mugivara (Aug 30, 2012)

You all will come to the correct way soon with first Shishui and then Danzo revealing...


----------



## jacamo (Aug 30, 2012)

Scizor said:


> The flashback pretty much confirms it's Obito in body and in soul, as his face was shown to be under the mask (obviously) and the emotional aspects of the flashback show Obito's awareness.



as long as its still possible that someone is controlling Obito's body, then no one can say anything is confirmed... especially when the chapter had no dialogue

my plotholes were always predicated on Tobi being Obito in both body AND mind not making sense because it would fuck up the timeline.... and i stand by it


----------



## ed17 (Aug 30, 2012)

Scizor said:


> The flashback pretty much confirms it's Obito in body and in soul, as his face was shown to be under the mask (obviously) and the emotional aspects of the flashback show Obito's awareness.



The body might be Obito's, but I think the soul isn't.
His personality is like Naruto and he has the same guts as him 
If it's really Obito's soul then Kishi has a lot to explain why Obito's mind is really this twisted


----------



## ifkisowning (Aug 30, 2012)

alex payne said:


> An apology from non-believers for all those years of ridiculing people who believed it would be nice



That would be impossible


----------



## Mugivara (Aug 30, 2012)

People who think that flashback belonged to Obito:

Did Minato vs Tobi flashback belong to Kushina?


----------



## Sacrass (Aug 30, 2012)

I just noticed this, but why doesn't he have a scar around his left eye?


----------



## Logiccauseoffans (Aug 30, 2012)

Sacrass said:


> I just noticed this, but why doesn't he have a scar around his left eye?



Fanservice i guess..


----------



## Tsukiyo (Aug 30, 2012)

fucking knew it. 

glad its confirmed though


----------



## jacamo (Aug 30, 2012)

Tsukiyo said:


> fucking knew it.
> 
> glad its confirmed though



only Obito's body/eye is confirmed

not his mind


----------



## Logiccauseoffans (Aug 30, 2012)

jacamo said:


> only Obito's body/eye is confirmed
> 
> not his mind



I think its Obito who had those flashbacks..


----------



## Tharris (Aug 30, 2012)

ifkisowning said:


> That would be impossible



Sorry, here's the bragging rights.  Use them well.


----------



## jacamo (Aug 30, 2012)

Logiccauseoffans said:


> I think its Obito who had those flashbacks..



like when Kushina gave us Minato's flashbacks?


----------



## Logiccauseoffans (Aug 30, 2012)

jacamo said:


> like when Kushina gave us Minato's flashbacks?



He looked up in the sky and said "oh fuck yeah, thats how it is. But soon ill complete the pimp plan and lose my V"


----------



## SageRafa (Aug 30, 2012)

To all the haters who negged me and picked on me for saying Tobi was Obito, deal with it :ho


----------



## Time (Aug 30, 2012)

I'm waiting for Obito to be on the verge of death and say to kakashi "I finally did it, I united the ninja world"


----------



## NW (Aug 30, 2012)

Terra Branford said:


> I know what was said...sorta. I just like to make sure something is actually that something before I go around claiming its canon. Better safe than sorry.
> 
> I'm a firm Tobi = Obito supporter though.


Well, is is canon. Kishi said it would be revealed within the next few weeks, and what he says is canon.



ShadeX23 said:


> To everyone saying it's not "really" Obito, he's just possessed or something, I just have this to say to you: no. Just no. This chapter proved one thing strongly, and that is how this arc is about Obito's fall to darkness. The memories we witnessed in this issue were provided to deliver even stronger impact when we find out what horrors turned this  happy-go-lucky, hard-working ninja who valued his friends above all else into the monster who murdered and manipulated anyone and anything he could as means to an end. Obito isn't "possessed" by Tobi, he BECOMES Tobi.
> 
> Obito is a fallen hero, and represents what happens when someone full of hope and promise is lost to turmoil and heartbreak. This is further evidenced by just how much he and Naruto look alike: because growing up, they held similar values and goals, but along the way, something broke his spirit and made his blood run cold. He was more than likely tainted by the "Curse of Hatred" that seems to follow all Uchiha. Someone "possessing" him would nullify all of this, and would _truly_ be the "bad writing" you guys keep accusing Kishimoto of.
> 
> ...


Wel spoken, my friend. +rep



Terra Branford said:


> Wow...I just realized there is a Uchiha clan symbol on his back. Holy hell, how did I miss that?!






jacamo said:


> im still sticking with someone controlling Obito's body... it would eliminate the plotholes if its not Obito's consciousness, which was always my main issue


Dude, the "plotholes" are eliminated just by Tobi being Obito. It just shows that you came to the wrong conclusion about those "plotholes" being actual holes.

There's no use showing flashbacks of Obito's past and further establishing his character if it's just some guy in his body.

Why not take the time to establish the character who was in obito's body. Because it's just Obito. Obito's soul in his own body.

Canonically confirmed. Tobi is Obito. Get over it.



Grimmjowsensei said:


> Hey what happened to arm clenching ?  Kishi


He was remembering giving his eye to Kakashi!! Poor Obito! 



jacamo said:


> only Obito's body/eye is confirmed
> 
> not his mind


No. Obito's body, mind, and soul are all confirmed.


----------



## Kusa (Aug 30, 2012)

I think it's shit thought it' shit when I saw it.Lost interest in Tobi,now don't give a shit give me Oro and Sasuke than everything is fine.


----------



## jacamo (Aug 30, 2012)

its not confirmed yet... if it was, a mod would have told me to change my sig

which hasnt happened 

as long as its not Obito's mind... i claim victory


----------



## Eternity (Aug 30, 2012)

jacamo said:


> its not confirmed yet... if it was, a mod would have told me to change my sig
> 
> which hasnt happened
> 
> as long as its not Obito's mind... i claim victory



Mods dont ask people to change their sig based on ignorance, so your argument is invalid.


----------



## jacamo (Aug 30, 2012)

Eternity said:


> Mods dont ask people to change their sig based on ignorance, so your argument is invalid.



nice comeback :ho its still not confirmed as Obito's mind


----------



## Flynn (Aug 30, 2012)

All you need to know that it's Obito's body and Obito himself is somewhere in there.

Either someone just completely changed him, or there's also someone else inside. But either way, Obito's still in there completely.


----------



## jimbob631 (Aug 30, 2012)

Imo the height argument is the stupidest.  I had my biggest growth spurt at 13 and 15, Obito could've easily had a growth spurt around then.


----------



## makeoutparadise (Aug 30, 2012)

*THE PHANTOM OF THE AKATSUKI*


*Staring Obito as the phantom*

Obito; *Why, you ask, Was I bound and chained In this cold and dismal place? Not for any mortal sin But the wickedness of my abhorrent face!*
*
Hounded out by everyone Met with hatred everywhere No kind words from anyone No compassion anywhere Rin , Rin, Why, why...*
*
And Kakashi As Kristine!!!!*

Kakashi:*
Wishing I could hear your voice again Knowing that I never would Dreaming of you won't help me to do All that you dreamed I could Passing bells and sculpted angels Cold and monumental seem, for you the wrong companions You were warm and gentle.
Too many years fighting back tears Why can't the past just die?!!!!
*


----------



## Marsala (Aug 30, 2012)

Flynn said:


> All you need to know that it's Obito's body and Obito himself is somewhere in there.
> 
> Either someone just completely changed him, or there's also someone else inside. But either way, Obito's still in there completely.



This. At a minimum, "Tobi" has all of Obito's memories and can mimic his personality.

However, that's not a guarantee that Tobi is truly Obito. There was a villain in Bleach who did something very similar with Shiba Kaien's body (and Kaien had a similar role to Obito, too).


----------



## Arya Stark (Aug 30, 2012)

I'm asking this since the spoilers.

SOMEONE PLEASE MAKE GIF WITH OBITO SAYING "DEAL WITH IT" WITH HIS GOGGLES ON.

PUHLEASE.


----------



## Mugivara (Aug 30, 2012)

Obito is just a tool a puppet


----------



## Soulme (Aug 30, 2012)

I just wonder how he isn't blind yet from overusing his MS so much....


----------



## Abanikochan (Aug 30, 2012)

And to think, later on he can actually scare everyone shitless by doing that.


----------



## makeoutparadise (Aug 30, 2012)

He does have an entire jar collection of sharingans maybe he replaced his eye long ago


----------



## Mistshadow (Aug 30, 2012)

jacamo said:


> its not confirmed yet... if it was, a mod would have told me to change my sig
> 
> which hasnt happened
> 
> as long as its not Obito's mind... i claim victory





jacamo said:


> nice comeback :ho its still not confirmed as Obito's mind



mods don't ask to people to change sigs unless they violate some rule.
But I still call dibs on changing your sig after its supermegaundeniable confirmed next week


----------



## Scizor (Aug 30, 2012)

jacamo said:


> as long as its still possible that someone is controlling Obito's body, then no one can say anything is confirmed... especially when the chapter had no dialogue
> 
> my plotholes were always predicated on Tobi being Obito in both body AND mind not making sense because it would fuck up the timeline.... and i stand by it





ed17 said:


> The body might be Obito's, but I think the soul isn't.
> His personality is like Naruto and he has the same guts as him
> If it's really Obito's soul then Kishi has a lot to explain why Obito's mind is really this twisted



The flashback showed hints of a motive. It's most likely Obito in body and soul.

If anything, the last chapter proved Kishi doesn't really do mystery.

And more importantly: if it isn't Obito in body and soul the flashback was for nothing.


----------



## NW (Aug 30, 2012)

jacamo said:


> its not confirmed yet...


So you're denying canon now?



> if it was, a mod would have told me to change my sig
> 
> which hasnt happened


Mods only tell you to change your sig if it violates some kind of rule, not if it denies canon.

Btw, none of the Tobi candidates have any body switching techniques, so Tobi can only be Obito.

You're always saying that we can't use assumptions to support the "plotholes" in our theory, so when there's an enormous hole in yours, you just assume that Tobi had a body switching technique? Looks like the kettle came back to the pot after all. 

Kishi named the chapter Naruto was introduced "Uzumaki Naruto".

He named the chapter Kakashi was introduced "Hatake Kakashi".

He named the chapter Edo Madara appeared "Uchiha Madara".

And this chapter, the one where Tobi was revealed to be Obito, was named "Uchiha Obito".

Are Naruto, Kakashi, and Madara's bodies being controlled? No. They are all Naruto, Kakashi, and Madara in their own bodies, acting of their own free will. Why should it be any different for Obito other than you being in denial?


----------



## Arya Stark (Aug 30, 2012)

I'm so posting these again, they're made by Ch1p



















/dead


----------



## Mistshadow (Aug 30, 2012)

omg that is so fucking awesome


----------



## Awesome (Aug 30, 2012)

Jacamo's denial is ridiculously strong in this thread. So who actually bet their account on this reveal? I want to see who lost


----------



## NW (Aug 30, 2012)

I gotta go find Ch1p so I can rep him!


----------



## Mistshadow (Aug 30, 2012)

ObitoUchiha111 said:


> I gotta go find Ch1p so I can rep him!



LOL STOP COPYING ME I JUST DID


----------



## NW (Aug 30, 2012)

Mistshadow said:
			
		

> LOL STOP COPYING ME I JUST DID


Not my fault I thought it was funny too. 

Anyway, to stay on topic: Tobi is canonically confirmed to be Obito, bitches. Deal with it!


----------



## Matta Clatta (Aug 30, 2012)

Its kinda sad obito is really tobi. 
Its gonna fuck with Kakashi something serious and take him out of the fight


----------



## Vice (Aug 30, 2012)

Damn, jacamo is just in complete denial here.


----------



## jacamo (Aug 30, 2012)

if its Obito's mind/soul as well i will admit to it

not yet though... not yet


----------



## Scizor (Aug 30, 2012)

The denial is strong in this one 

But I guess that isn't necissarily a bad thing.


----------



## NW (Aug 30, 2012)

jacamo said:
			
		

> if its Obito's mind/soul as well i will admit to it
> 
> not yet though... not yet


But it's canonically confirmed.

I repeat why have an entire chapter of Obito flashbacks if it's just some guy using Obito's body?

Why not give flashbacks of the guy who's IN the body? Oh wait, they did. Because Tobi is OBITO IN OBITO'S BODY! 

CRAZY, RIGHT?!?!?!?!


----------



## ShadeX23 (Aug 30, 2012)

ObitoUchiha111 said:


> Wel spoken, my friend. +rep



Thanks man! It's good to know that my massive, overly long walls of text aren't totally useless  haha, in all honesty though, I just wanna show how well-done Obito being Tobi can truly be. My only issue with everything that transpired so far is how transparent the hints in issue 597 were, but even then it was close enough to the big reveal to be negligible. 

And sweet buttery Jesus, those photo(bito)shopped pictures are the best thing ever, I nearly fell out of my chair when I saw that first picture


----------



## jacamo (Aug 30, 2012)

Scizor said:


> The denial is strong in this one
> 
> But I guess that isn't necissarily a bad thing.



i just want it beyond any reasonable doubt



ObitoUchiha111 said:


> But it's canonically confirmed.
> 
> I repeat why have an entire chapter of Obito flashbacks if it's just some guy using Obito's body?



to fuck with the readers? i dont know, im not Kishi

these 2 guys sum up my thoughts on the matter 


*Spoiler*: __ 



[YOUTUBE]OFVdJv3pX9A[/YOUTUBE]
[YOUTUBE]e6NXGyy_SYE[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## NW (Aug 30, 2012)

jacamo said:


> to fuck with the readers? i dont know,


Right at the reveal?  You're hopeless...  



> im not Kishi


Thank God for that.



> these 2 guys sum up my thoughts on the matter
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...


Those guys are idiots. 


I guess ya can't realize good writing when ya see it. 

Also, before you go accusing me of insulting you, I didn't. Okay, maybe the hopeless thing was kinda mean, but still.


----------



## Mistshadow (Aug 30, 2012)

I refuse to listen to KoL, I know he posts Fairy Tail stuff, and all I can tell by the comments is the dude has no life and fails at the small amount he does to react at pieces of fiction like that multiple times a week.


----------



## jacamo (Aug 30, 2012)

when its confirmed i will own up to it..... but no one can deny the possibility that it could be someone else controling Obito's body


----------



## Mistshadow (Aug 30, 2012)

jacamo said:


> when its confirmed i will own up to it..... but no one can deny the possibility that it could be someone else controling Obito's body



because everyone and their mother knows how to do body jumping 
give an example of who it can be by body jumping


----------



## Eternity (Aug 30, 2012)

Oro knew, so did Kabuto, so oro might have tought somebody. But I doubt it.


----------



## Arya Stark (Aug 30, 2012)

Wikipedia: *Tobi (Naruto)*, the alias of Obito Uchiha, is the primary antagonist of the anime and manga series Naruto


I really can't guys


----------



## Awesome (Aug 30, 2012)

jacamo said:


> when its confirmed i will own up to it..... but no one can deny the possibility that it could be someone else controling Obito's body



This is denial at its very finest. It's like saying that evolution isn't true because there's the small chance that all the evidence is WRONG.

Bullshit. You remind me of die hard creationists. The facts are here. Being in denial won't change anything.


----------



## Mistshadow (Aug 30, 2012)

Awesome said:


> This is denial at its very finest. It's like saying that evolution isn't true because there's the small chance that all the evidence is WRONG.
> 
> Bullshit. You remind me of die hard creationists. The facts are here. Being in denial won't change anything.



but duuuuuude, the earth is only 6000 years old, god made the evidence that way to give the illusion of age. come on mannnnnnnnnnnnn



/sarcasm


----------



## Awesome (Aug 30, 2012)

It is interesting to see jacamo on the "fanfiction" side now


----------



## jacamo (Aug 30, 2012)

if you want to celebrate prematurely thats up to you

its still possible Tobi is simply using Obito's body


----------



## Awesome (Aug 30, 2012)

I hope that you do know that you're the one taking the illogical and "fanfiction" side now though. Kind of hypocritical. I thought that you would have disregarded your bias because of your purely factual personality.


----------



## Palpatine (Aug 30, 2012)

Moon~ said:


> Wikipedia: *Tobi (Naruto)*, the alias of Obito Uchiha, is the primary antagonist of the anime and manga series Naruto
> 
> 
> I really can't guys



Tobi isn't the primary antagonist of Naruto. He's _one of_ the main antagonists. Get it right!


----------



## TH4N4T0S (Aug 30, 2012)

jacamo said:


> when its confirmed i will own up to it..... but no one can deny the possibility that it could be someone else controling Obito's body


Says someone who doesn't want to play the "." You don't really buy into your own logic, do you?


----------



## Palpatine (Aug 30, 2012)

At this point, I think it'd be terrible writing if it turns out Obito's _not_ Tobi. 

You don't spend a chapter developing a character's past before revealing them, only to have them say they aren't that character the next chapter.


----------



## Eternity (Aug 30, 2012)

Why don't we just wait and see? Can't he be allowed to believe that there is a small chance, as the actual chance is there? Or are all of you really so full of yourself that you have to call him names and such?

I don't agree with jacamo, but you don't see me crushing his hope. You know why? Because I know this is Kishimotos manga, not mine. So I would rather see what happens then boast about how amazing my understanding is, or how wrong everybody else is.


----------



## Mistshadow (Aug 30, 2012)

Eternity said:


> Why don't we just wait and see? Can't he be allowed to believe that there is a small chance, as the actual chance is there? Or are all of you really so full of yourself that you have to call him names and such?
> 
> I don't agree with jacamo, but you don't see me crushing his hope. You know why? Because I know this is Kishimotos manga, not mine. So I would rather see what happens then boast about how amazing my understanding is, or how wrong everybody else is.



that's not the point. the point is that he is saying its impossible when obviously it is NOT impossible at all, and in this case, seems to be the most likely


----------



## jacamo (Aug 30, 2012)

TH4N4T0S said:


> Says someone who doesn't want to play the "." You don't really buy into your own logic, do you?



i made a commitment, you never did despite your ludicrous word count.... so what do you have to brag about?

unless youre just here to target me and make derogatory jibes at my posts, go ahead... at least youre not affecting anyone else



Eternity said:


> Why don't we just wait and see? Can't he be allowed to believe that there is a small chance, as the actual chance is there? Or are all of you really so full of yourself that you have to call him names and such?
> 
> I don't agree with jacamo, but you don't see me crushing his hope. You know why? Because I know this is Kishimotos manga, not mine. So I would rather see what happens then boast about how amazing my understanding is, or how wrong everybody else is.



lol.... for some reason they took offense when i thought there were plotholes with Tobi being both Obito's body and mind and called it impossible


----------



## TH4N4T0S (Aug 30, 2012)

jacamo said:


> i made a commitment


To deny the possible answers to your questions. There is a glaring difference between refutation and denial.


> you never did....


But I did. It was to argue that Tobito was possible despite its "holes." 


> so what do you have to brag about?


Nothing. Presenting possibilities is nothing to brag about. 


> unless youre just here to target me and make derogatory jibes at my posts, go ahead... at least youre not affecting anyone else


I am here to remark upon the interesting observation that you have jumped on the "diplomatic" bandwagon this time. Although I recognize the possibility that Tobi's mind isn't Obito's, or isn't 100% Obito's, I am baffled by your reliance on it, considering your "commitment" against possibilities.


----------



## Mistshadow (Aug 30, 2012)

jacamo said:


> i made a commitment, you never did despite your ludicrous word count.... so what do you have to brag about?
> 
> unless youre just here to target me and make derogatory jibes at my posts, go ahead... at least youre not affecting anyone else
> 
> lol.... for some reason they took offense when i thought there were plotholes with Tobi being both Obito's body and mind and called it impossible



1: Commitment doesn't mean you can't broaden your horizons. People commit to a specific sport, doesn't mean they don't try out another one for fun or to try and become better at a certain aspect. You picked one thing and hinge on it no matter what, there is a difference you are denial incarnate.
2: I don't take offense with plot holes, I take offense with you claiming you had plot holes that are not plot holes. you still don't even grasp the defintion of the term. and have newbies falling for it thinking it is legitimate and there is no possible explanation for it.

........................................................................................................



TH4N4T0S said:


> *To deny the possible answers to your questions. There is a glaring difference between refutation and denial*.
> But I did. It was to argue that Tobito was possible despite its "holes."
> Nothing. Presenting possibilities is nothing to brag about.
> I am here to remark upon the interesting observation that you have jumped on the "diplomatic" bandwagon this time. Although I recognize the possibility that Tobi's mind isn't Obito's, or isn't 100% Obito's, I am baffled by your reliance on it, considering your "commitment" against possibilities.



This pretty much. ESPECIALLY THE BOLDED.


----------



## NW (Aug 30, 2012)

jacamo said:


> if you want to celebrate prematurely thats up to you


We're not celebrating prematurely. The latest chapter has canonically confirmed Tobi to be Obito.



> its still possible Tobi is simply using Obito's body


It's still possible that someone is using Naruto's body.

It's still possible that someone is using Kakashi's body.

It's still possible that someone is using Shikamaru's body.

It's still possible that someone is using Sasuke's body.

It's still possible that someone is using Guy's body.

Are any of those possible? Fuck no. So, why should Obito's case be any different? Just for the sake of denial?

Seriously. You don't name the chapter UCHIHA OBITO and have the whole chapter consist of flashbacks of Obito's past, his dreams and aspirations, his memories, and his hardships... JUST for it to be some guy using Obito's body.

I mean, shouldn't this be common sense.

Tobi is canonically confirmed to be Obito.

If he was Kagami or Izuna, you wouldn't be saying he's some guy using Kagami or izuna's body.

So why Obito?

Come on man, even YOU have to be better than this...


----------



## Moon Fang (Aug 30, 2012)

Canonically confirmed Tobi to be Obito ? Tobi confirmed he's Obito ? All I saw was a flashback and three words


----------



## Hydro Spiral (Aug 30, 2012)

Palpatine said:


> Tobi isn't the primary antagonist of Naruto. He's _one of_ the main antagonists. Get it right!


No love for Madara, Wikipedia? 



Moon Fang said:


> Canonically confirmed Tobi to be Obito ? Tobi confirmed he's Obito ? All I saw was a flashback and three words



An entire chapter dedicated to the reveal, titled _"Obito Uchiha"_.

IDK. What do _you_ expect people to believe here?


----------



## Moon Fang (Aug 30, 2012)

Hydro Spiral said:


> An entire chapter dedicated to the reveal, titled _"Obito Uchiha"_
> 
> IDK. What do _you_ expect people to believe here?



Why name the chapter Obito Uchiha, then do a flashback on him and still have the characters ask if it's him ? They still have some doubt in it and that's what Kishi tried to make the readers feel but done a poor job at it.


----------



## gabzilla (Aug 31, 2012)

Palpatine said:


> At this point, I think it'd be terrible writing if it turns out Obito's _not_ Tobi.
> 
> You don't spend a chapter developing a character's past before revealing them, only to have them say they aren't that character the next chapter.



It's obviously the Ramen Guy


----------



## Tharris (Aug 31, 2012)

jacamo said:


> if you want to celebrate prematurely thats up to you
> 
> its still possible Tobi is simply using Obito's body



It's kinda funny that all of the Tobito's are like:
[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOB38zJu66o&feature=fvwrel[/YOUTUBE]

But all of the non-tobito's are like:
[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSn91Xf8Ko8&feature=relmfu[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Tharris (Aug 31, 2012)

Moon Fang said:


> Why name the chapter Obito Uchiha, then do a flashback on him and still have the characters ask if it's him ? They still have some doubt in it and that's what Kishi tried to make the readers feel but done a poor job at it.



To represent the shock value, all the memories everyone had.
To get you in the right state of mind to be surprised if something else happens.


----------



## jacamo (Aug 31, 2012)

TH4N4T0S said:


> To deny the possible answers to your questions. There is a glaring difference between refutation and denial.
> But I did. It was to argue that Tobito was possible despite its "holes."
> Nothing. Presenting possibilities is nothing to brag about.
> I am here to remark upon the interesting observation that you have jumped on the "diplomatic" bandwagon this time. Although I recognize the possibility that Tobi's mind isn't Obito's, or isn't 100% Obito's, I am baffled by your reliance on it, considering your "commitment" against possibilities.



i forgot to mention this guy always acts like he's the most intelligent guy in the room, always.... some kind of superiority complex i guess

i always acknowledged that Obito's body being controlled by someone else was a possibility, but now all of a sudden you want to label me as diplomatic because of it? why not before? jeeez i guess you never got over the fact that called you overly diplomatic in the first place 

i called you that because of your constant beating of the bush on every Tobi theory without ever commiting to one of them, scared to be wrong



Mistshadow said:


> 1: Commitment doesn't mean you can't broaden your horizons. People commit to a specific sport, doesn't mean they don't try out another one for fun or to try and become better at a certain aspect. You picked one thing and hinge on it no matter what, there is a difference you are denial incarnate.
> 2: I don't take offense with plot holes, I take offense with you claiming you had plot holes that are not plot holes. you still don't even grasp the defintion of the term. and have newbies falling for it thinking it is legitimate and there is no possible explanation for it.
> 
> ........................................................................................................
> ...



if its Obito's mind as well then there are plotholes

and if you cant recognise the basic problems that would result in the timeline... then youre the one who doesnt understand what a plothole is



ObitoUchiha111 said:


> We're not celebrating prematurely. The latest chapter has canonically confirmed Tobi to be Obito.
> 
> It's still possible that someone is using Naruto's body.
> 
> ...



refer to what Moon Fang said below



Moon Fang said:


> Canonically confirmed Tobi to be Obito ? Tobi confirmed he's Obito ? All I saw was a flashback and three words


----------



## Ricky Sen (Aug 31, 2012)

*Spoiler*: __ 



I mean no offense here, but how exactly is he acting like the smartest guy in the room? Is it because he's using an academic vocabulary or acting mature? Because he actually uses logic? What's wrong with "acting" like you're the most intelligent person in the room when, for all intents and purposes, you appear to _actually_ be the smartest person in the room, and for that matter I haven't detected a single hint of condescension in his posts. Your remark comes off like unabashed insecurity rather than anything bordering on a legitimate criticism.



Anyways..... So glad that Obito's backstory is being developed now rather than being postponed. I wouldn't mind if the next 10+ chapter were more flashbacks with how well Kishimoto is executing them.


----------



## Kool-Aid (Aug 31, 2012)

so glad it's obito. tobi was one of my favorite characters, but i stopped liking him when i thought he was madara, even though i like the real madara. 

now tobi is one of my favorite characters again.


----------



## TH4N4T0S (Aug 31, 2012)

jacamo said:


> i forgot to mention this guy always acts like he's the most...


Which is as irrelevant as the amount of oxygen Snooki inhaled on her 3rd birthday.



> i always acknowledged that Obito's body being controlled by someone else was a possibility, but now all of a sudden you want to label me as diplomatic because of it? why not before?


Because what we always focused on was your "plot holes."

Actually, labeling you as "diplomatic" is a compliment. Perhaps your confusion stems from your odd usage of the word.


> jeeez i guess you never got over the fact that called you overly diplomatic in the first place


Not quite. Being "diplomatic" (that is, being open to possibilities) is always good as far as argumentation is concerned. 


> i called you that because of your constant beating of the bush on every Tobi theory


I have done no such thing. I provided you with possible answers to your questions, and argued for the possibility of Tobito. Pretty clear and straightforward.


> without ever commiting to one of them, scared to be wrong


I am not obligated to commit to any of them. I choose, however, to commit myself to common sense, which happens to clash with your... reasoning.

Edit: Just felt the need to reply to this:


Ricky Sen said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> I mean no offense here, but how  exactly is he acting like the smartest guy in the room? Is it because  he's using an academic vocabulary or acting mature? Because he actually  uses logic? What's wrong with "acting" like you're the most intelligent  person in the room when, for all intents and purposes, you appear to _actually_  be the smartest person in the room, and for that matter I haven't  detected a single hint of condescension in his posts. Your remark comes  off like unabashed insecurity rather than anything bordering on a  legitimate criticism.


To be fair, I did tell him once that his circular arguments amounted to a concession, and that he had to hit the bricks. I also  his reasoning (with good reason, methinks).

But his apparent bitterness that I lampooned his logic some weeks ago is hardly my problem.


----------



## Escargon (Aug 31, 2012)

I still cant get over that its Obito and those are scars. They clearly looked like wrinkles you get from aging, rubberguy from the clouds and Mifune has those.

Just rereading gaiden makes me have doubts. Kishi better explain this, which i doubt. 

Actually im happy that Tobi is Obito after all, but honestly, i thought his fucking face would shock NARUTO, and it propably would if it turned out to be Kaiza? I mean he replaced his arms with zetsu.. 

I mean is that line "if you want to see whats under my mask" just for trolling? Would Naruto care about Obito? Who knows. In this panel it just looks like Naruto is confused by his masters face.. i seriously think Kishi had no clue what to do with Tobi.

But finally revealed,  Tobi is Obito and Obito looks good, hopefully Kishi wont screw the storyline up.


----------



## son_michael (Aug 31, 2012)

Moon Fang said:


> Why name the chapter Obito Uchiha, then do a flashback on him and still have the characters ask if it's him ? They still have some doubt in it and that's what Kishi tried to make the readers feel but done a poor job at it.



they have disbelief. Should kakashi and gai have looked at us and pointed at him saying "yep that's obito!"  wtf do you think we're reading?  spider man unlimited or something?


----------



## BatoKusanagi (Aug 31, 2012)

Now that I calmed down, I think the flashback shoulder been about what happened to Obito after supposedly getting crushed by the rocks. I mean, from the gaiden we already knew that he liked Rin, that Rin liked Kakashi and that no one liked Obito


----------



## Jeαnne (Aug 31, 2012)

well, i will say that the fact that the chapter ended with kakashi questioning if he is obito, doesnt confirm that tobi is obito just yet.

Add it to the fact that we got a silent flashback that could be a reminiscence from kakashi(which would explain for example, minato's face in the kage mountain), and it feels like there is something more to it than simply "its obito".


----------



## 8Apedemak8 (Aug 31, 2012)

Jeαnne said:


> well, i will say that the fact that the chapter ended with kakashi questioning if he is obito, doesnt confirm that tobi is obito just yet.
> 
> Add it to the fact that we got a silent flashback *that could be a reminiscence from kakashi*(which would explain for example, minato's face in the kage mountain), and it feels like there is something more to it than simply "its obito".



Kakashi wasn't there to see Obito help an old woman
And most of the stuff with Rin as well..

I think it's a flashback for the readers,or from Obito point of view.But mostly the readers.

Minato's face was probably a mistake.


----------



## Jeαnne (Aug 31, 2012)

8Apedemak8 said:


> Kakashi wasn't there to see Obito help an old woman
> And most of the stuff with Rin as well..
> 
> I think it's a flashback for the readers,or from Obito point of view.But mostly the readers.
> ...


obito said that he was helping an old lady and that was why he was late, and kakashi claimed that he lied.

it could be kakashi's reminiscence mixed with story.

kishi has done this with flashbacks before, showing things that werent seen from the person's point of view, but that still happened.

Kakashi would be thinking of Obito's feelings, toward all situations, and with this kishi showed the whole thing for us. The hokage scene basically didnt happen, it was a symbolic way of showing that Obito dreamed of being Hokage. 

Like "he had dreams, he had feelings, he had objectives and things that troubled him", and kishi showed them to us, closing with Kakashi exacly because the reminiscence is being triggered by what kakashi is thinking right now, not Tobi. Explains why there is no dialogue.

Seeing from this point of view, this chapter makes way more sense.


----------



## 8Apedemak8 (Aug 31, 2012)

Jeαnne said:


> obito said that he was helping an old lady and that was why he was late, and kakashi claimed that he lied.
> 
> it could be kakashi's reminiscence mixed with story.
> 
> ...



It could be
Anyways I guess the explanation for Tobito lie with Madara,I wonder if there's any way to contact dead people...

Sasuke is planning to meet somebody,but I have the feeling that it's not someone who's alive,who in the Narutoverse knows everything ?

I'm just thinking about it...


----------



## Jeαnne (Aug 31, 2012)

8Apedemak8 said:


> It could be
> Anyways I guess the explanation for Tobito lie with Madara,I wonder if there's any way to contact dead people...
> 
> Sasuke is planning to meet somebody,but I have the feeling that it's not someone who's alive,who in the Narutoverse knows everything ?
> ...


i doubt that tobi will stop and give the explanation himself, so yeah, we will discover thought either madara or sasuke.


----------



## Footmax (Aug 31, 2012)

I really doubt it's a Kakashi's flashback, it looks like a flashback for us, readers, to introduce us to the man behind the mask.
I really think it would have been made more obvious if it was really Kakashi's (the chapter shouldn't have started directly with a flashback), you read too much into it imo.


----------



## NW (Aug 31, 2012)

Escargon said:


> I still cant get over that its Obito and those are scars. They clearly looked like wrinkles you get from aging, rubberguy from the clouds and Mifune has those.


Ummmm, how exactly do they look like wrinkles you get from aging? Having a boulder land on the right side of your body could definitely produce that kind of effect on your face, explaining the scars. They don't really look like age wrinkles (well they aren't anyway) as no one else has wrinkles that look like Obito's.



> i seriously think Kishi had no clue what to do with Tobi.


Tobi's true identity (Obito) has been planned from the start and has never changed.



Jeαnne said:


> i doubt that tobi will stop and give the explanation himself, so yeah, we will discover thought either madara or sasuke.


There's no point in the explanation if Obito's not the one to give it. It's his flashback, so he should tell it.


----------



## gehad (Aug 31, 2012)

What's really annoying is Kisame calling him Madara after Tobi took his mask off and calling Kisame his right hand or his closest Companion , either Kisame was under a serious Genjutsu or he was on drugs .


----------



## Danchou (Aug 31, 2012)

I bloody knew it!


----------



## Mistshadow (Aug 31, 2012)

Eternity said:


> Oro knew, so did *Kabuto*, so oro might have tought somebody. But I doubt it.



Never said or noted he learned or was capable of body jumping. Orochimaru ONLY. KAbuto went the other route and perfected his own body for sage mode.


----------



## ch1p (Aug 31, 2012)

20 pages in the telegrams section! I don't remember how many there was in the Madara's coffin revelation. Was it more or less?


----------



## gabzilla (Aug 31, 2012)

gehad said:


> What's really annoying is Kisame calling him Madara after Tobi took his mask off and calling Kisame his right hand or his closest Companion , *either Kisame was under a serious Genjutsu* or he was on drugs .



Since we are talking about an Uchiha...


----------



## NW (Aug 31, 2012)

gehad said:


> What's really annoying is Kisame calling him Madara after Tobi took his mask off and calling Kisame his right hand or his closest Companion , either Kisame was under a serious Genjutsu or he was on drugs .


*sigh*

Why doesn't anyone get this? He recognized Obito because he was the one controlling Yagura!


----------



## Easley (Aug 31, 2012)

gehad said:


> What's really annoying is Kisame calling him Madara after Tobi took his mask off and calling Kisame his right hand or his closest Companion , either Kisame was under a serious Genjutsu or he was on drugs .


He called him Madara because that's how Tobi referred to himself - assuming the man who controlled Yagura was Tobi. Kisame is not from Konoha and probably has no idea what the real Madara looked like, so even unmasked it makes no difference.

Their meeting in Kirigakure is a mystery which needs explaining. I'm not convinced it was Tobi. The long haired man could easily be Madara, but I really don't want to get into that - I'll leave it to Kishi!


----------



## Let'sFightingLove (Aug 31, 2012)

Jeαnne said:


> Seeing from this point of view, this chapter makes way more sense.



I wish people would take responsibility for their wrongs...


----------



## Mistshadow (Aug 31, 2012)

In my opinion the guy Kisame saw was Obito, since he referred to Tobi as Madara also who we now know is Obito. Yet the ONLY panel we get of Yagura being controlled tells us it was AFTER kyuubi incident. 
We don't KNOW if he was being controlled before or after the boulder incident.

Thing is people make the assumption that the bloody mist was BECAUSE of Yagura being controlled. 
They don't accept a few possibilities such as 

1-The bloody mist wasn't started BECAUSE of Yagura being controlled but by Yagura when he was himself or the 3rd mizukage, Obitocame later

2-Madara controlled him first and passed it onto Obito to control Yagura


----------



## HakuGaara (Aug 31, 2012)

As expected, Obito's face is revealed and all of you are saying 'confirmed!', 'canon' and the like. You all *fell* for it.

- How did Obito form Akatsuki when he was in diapers?

- If the 180 is because of Rin, then why his obsession with Madara, to the point of re-creating his attack on the village to a T?

- How can Naruto remind him of Hashirama, a person he never met?

Come on people, *wake up*!


----------



## NW (Aug 31, 2012)

Mistshadow said:


> 1-The bloody mist wasn't started BECAUSE of Yagura being controlled but by Yagura when he was himself or the 3rd mizukage, Obitocame later
> 
> 2-Madara controlled him first and passed it onto Obito to control Yagura


Option 2 is the most logical. We've seen Yagura's personality and he wasn't evil at all.



HakuGaara said:


> As expected, Obito's face is revealed and all of you are saying 'confirmed!', 'canon' and the like. You all *fell* for it.


I think it's more like you being in denial.



> - How did Obito form Akatsuki when he was in diapers?


Madara did it. 



> - If the 180 is because of Rin, then why his obsession with Madara,


-__-



> to the point of re-creating his attack on the village to a T?


What the fuck? How do you know exactly how Madara's attack went?



> - How can Naruto remind him of Hashirama, a person he never met?


Madara met him. He was posing as Madara. He could also have been shown recordings by Zetsu. Or just simply knew what the Will of Fire was so that's how he "saw Hashirama in him".



> Come on people, *wake up*!


I think you're the one who needs to wake up if a chapter named Uchiha Obito with flashbacks to Obito's past and his face revealed at the end to be behind the mask didn't convince you.


----------



## Mistshadow (Aug 31, 2012)

ObitoUchiha111 said:


> Option 2 is the most logical. We've seen Yagura's personality and he wasn't evil at all.



Not necessarily. He was a ninja first and first most.
Seeming like a 'swell' guy doesn't confirm he wouldn't have started it. Plus he onky had ine chapter of talking. Ninjas have to do some pretty down and dirty things.
Zabuxa was a swell guy. Would you say muu is evil? 
We don't know enough on how he became
Kage or when he became
Kage and the situation to determine one or the other.


----------



## Noctis Dragneel (Aug 31, 2012)

ObitoUchiha111 said:


> *sigh*
> 
> Why doesn't anyone get this? He recognized Obito because he was the one controlling Yagura!



I disagree. Do you know how much it takes to grow a hair that is 1m+ in length? It takes 5-7 years and not to mention that even without that fact Obito was too young. It amazes me how you people still can't figure out how Kishi hints at everything in this manga even after Obito's reveal. Long haired Tobi = Madara, short haired Tobi = Obito. Obito probably used genjutsu on Kisame to make him loyal as he was to Madara or Kisame just played along and called him Madara since he was impersonating him.


----------



## Nic (Aug 31, 2012)

all the supposed plotholes have been explained a million times event though they aren't plotholes since kishi will be giving an explanation through Obito's flashbacks in the next few chapters, but oh well.


----------



## jacamo (Aug 31, 2012)

Jeαnne said:


> *well, i will say that the fact that the chapter ended with kakashi questioning if he is obito, doesnt confirm that tobi is obito just yet.*



simply this


----------



## gentlechomp (Aug 31, 2012)

It's interesting Tobito-ists are relatively split on the identity of long hair Tobi.

But if it's revealed in the next chapter or two, nobody will have time to dig their holes too deep over this new schism.


----------



## Synn (Aug 31, 2012)

We're all under Itachi's genjutsu.


----------



## HakuGaara (Aug 31, 2012)

ObitoUchiha111 said:


> Madara did it.



Madara was dead already.



ObitoUchiha111 said:


> What the fuck? How do you know exactly how Madara's attack went?



Did he attack the village and it's Hokage with the Kyuubi? Yes, just like Madara did. It explains why he 'waited so long' to do such a thing, because he saw Madara do the same thing years before, which also explains how Madara knows Tobi and why the Kyuubi recognized Tobi.



ObitoUchiha111 said:


> Madara met him. He was posing as Madara. He could also have been shown recordings by Zetsu. Or just simply knew what the Will of Fire was so that's how he "saw Hashirama in him".



More assumptions. All you have is assumptions. You can't seem to get it through your head that assumptions do not serve as factual evidence.



ObitoUchiha111 said:


> I think you're the one who needs to wake up if a chapter named Uchiha Obito with flashbacks to Obito's past and his face revealed at the end to be behind the mask didn't convince you.



The chapter is called 'Uchiha Obito' because his body was revealed.

The flashback was from *Kakashi* as he was flash-remembering everything about Obito. This was naturally triggered by seeing Obito's face. That's why there was no dialogue. It's not a 'special' flashback from the author.

The quote at the end says 'the *name* Obito is revealed'. Why wouldn't it just say 'Tobi's identity is revealed' instead? Because obviously Tobi is not Obito.

There's more inconsistencies.

- Why does he refer to people his own age or older as 'children'?

- Why is he so surprised about Minato's skill when he fought him? Shouldn't he know exactly how skilled his own sensei is?

But I'll suppose you'll just answer these with just more baseless assumptions.


----------



## Mima-sama (Aug 31, 2012)

jacamo said:


> simply this



Indeed. I still think he's Obito, though.

I was reading through your list of "plot holes" in your signature, and I must say that I am impressed with how well thought out your arguments are.
There are just a few things that bother me.

*Plot hole 1*- Yes, there's _no way_ a ninja can simply build up that much power in the short span of 1 to 2 years, which is why Naruto and Sasuke are no more powerful than they were in part 1-- _Oh wait_, *they're totally much more powerful, both of them climbing up to near S-rank shinobi in the short span of 2 and 1/2 years*. This is the Narutoverse. Time is irrelevant to how powerful someone can become (*especially an Uchiha*).

*Plot hole 2*- Personality U-turns can be hard to understand, but I'm sure Kishimoto will explain it to us. It might have something to do with Rin.
It might also have something to do with that _huge-ass boulder that fell on him_, *damaging his brain*. Brain damage can make people change drastically. It can even change their personalities.

*Plot hole 3*- I can't argue with you on this one, it is a little strange. Though, if you really want something, even waiting just two years for it can seem like an eternity. That's just perspective, though.

*Plot hole 4*- When did Kurama ever see Tobi's face? (Aside from the latest chapter). I think he only said he recognized him as Uchiha Madara because _until he met Sasuke, Madara was the only Uchiha that Kurama really knew._

*Plot hole 5*- Another one I can't really argue with, though it is possible that he could have grown that much in the span of two years. Human growth may seem slow, but it can actually happen pretty quickly.

*Plot hole 6*- Yet another one that Kishimoto will have to explain, but my own theory is that Minato knew. But he had a village to protect, and as the Hokage, he couldn't let his emotions for a former-student-turned-bad control him.

*Plot hole 7*- Another mystery, though my theory on this ties in with my problem with plot hole 11.

*Plot hole 8*- People compare other people to dead people all the time, regardless of whether or not they knew them. This is especially true of dead people who are famous, as Hashirama would have been. And *Hashirama was known well for his Will of Fire*. As a ninja of Konaha, Obito would have known this much at least, especially since he used to have the Will of Fire himself.

*Plot hole 9*- Remember *Yamato*? Remember how *he's missing*? Remember that _*he's a clone of Hashirama*_? Yeah, we're gonna get to why this is fishy at the end of this.

*Plot hole 10*- Impossible? Nothing is impossible if you put your mind to it and you're really interested in it. If he truly wanted to, _Obito could have learned about the history between the Uchiha and the Senju in a relatively short period of time_. And don't forget about what Sasuke found inside the Uchiha clan complex...

*Plot hole 11*- Tobi did not give Nagato the Rinnegan. But how is this possible? Tobi said himself that he gave Nagato the Rinnegan! The villain!
But it all boils down to one simple fact. In fact, most of these plot holes can be answered by one simple deduction.

Tobi is a _villain_.
Villains *lie*.
_*Tobi was lying.*_
He lied about who he was, what he had done, and where he had been. He's been lying all along.

So, there ya go- those are things that strike me as a little odd.

Despite all of that, I agree with you that *Kishimoto has a lot of 'splainin' to do*.


----------



## NW (Aug 31, 2012)

Noctis Dragneel said:


> I disagree. Do you know how much it takes to grow a hair that is 1m+ in length? It takes 5-7 years and not to mention that even without that fact Obito was too young. It amazes me how you people still can't figure out how Kishi hints at everything in this manga even after Obito's reveal. Long haired Tobi = Madara, short haired Tobi = Obito. Obito probably used genjutsu on Kisame to make him loyal as he was to Madara or Kisame just played along and called him Madara since he was impersonating him.


Choji.

Oh, and there's only one Tobi.



HakuGaara said:


> Madara was dead already.


According to this chapter, no he wasn't.





> Did he attack the village and it's Hokage with the Kyuubi? Yes, just like Madara did. It explains why he 'waited so long' to do such a thing, because he saw Madara do the same thing years before, which also explains how Madara knows Tobi and why the Kyuubi recognized Tobi.


So, he attacked Konoha with Kurama. So what? He fought Minato cuz he had to get him outta da way. It's not as if he was *purposefully* mirroring Madara.





> More assumptions. All you have is assumptions. You can't seem to get it through your head that assumptions do not serve as factual evidence.


You mean like the baseless assumption that Tobi had a body switching technique? The hypocrisy in your post is hilarious.

Also, Obito was posing as Madara. Confirmed. he knew what the Will of Fire was. Confirmed. Those aren't baseless assumptions.





> The chapter is called 'Uchiha Obito' because his body was revealed.


Kid, having someone's body does not make you that person. Orochimaru isn't Genyumaru and was never referred to as such because it wasn't his name. He wasn't Genyumaru. He was Orochimaru. How ironic that you're the one coming up with baseless assumptions.



> The flashback was from *Kakashi* as he was flash-remembering everything about Obito. This was naturally triggered by seeing Obito's face. That's why there was no dialogue.


Who cares who had the flashback? The point is Obito's character was further established in it.



> It's not a 'special' flashback from the author.


Another baseless assumption?



> The quote at the end says 'the *name* Obito is revealed'. Why wouldn't it just say 'Tobi's identity is revealed' instead? Because obviously Tobi is not Obito.


They said the name Obito is revealed because HIS NAME IS OBITO. 



> - Why does he refer to people his own age or older as 'children'?


Umm, when? To Konan? He was posing as Madara.



> - Why is he so surprised about Minato's skill when he fought him? Shouldn't he know exactly how skilled his own sensei is?


He didn't really know that much about Minato's FTG anyway. 



> But I'll suppose you'll just answer these with just more baseless assumptions.


----------



## Saru (Aug 31, 2012)

The most mind-numbing, rage-inducing part of the reveal hasn't even happened yet.


----------



## Scizor (Aug 31, 2012)

jacamo said:


> simply this



It's more like an 'it can't be!' questionmark than a 'serious doubt' questionmark.

Plus:
- It says: "It's finally revealed. His name is Obito!!!"
- The chapter's name is "Obito Uchiha"

There's just no real reason to doubt Tobito anymore at this point.


----------



## αshɘs (Aug 31, 2012)

Jeαnne said:


> well, i will say that the fact that the chapter ended with kakashi questioning if he is obito, doesnt confirm that tobi is obito just yet.
> 
> Add it to the fact that we got a silent flashback that could be a reminiscence from kakashi(which would explain for example, minato's face in the kage mountain), and it feels like there is something more to it than simply "its obito".



Kakashi didn't question anything. His "You're Obito?" is more of shock and disbelief.

The flashback was from no POV. It was Kishi's attempt to reconnect Obito to the readers. A summary. Minato's face was a mistake, Kishi might correct it for the tankobon.

You're looking way too much in to it.


----------



## ch1p (Aug 31, 2012)

The flashback had several POVs.

Obito
Page 01 - panel 1
Page 04 - panel 3-5
Page 05 - panel 2
Page 06 - panel 3-4
Page 07
Page 08
Page 10
Page 11 - panel 3
Page 12
Page 13 - panel 1-3

Minato
Page 04 - panel 9
Page 03 - panel 4

Kakashi
Page 4 - panel 2

Even in POV alone, it favours Obito. But the POV isn't important. The fact that we have a whole chapter about Obito is what it's important. C'mon, if it isn't all him, then there's no point to this chapter. If it was just his eye or his body, there would be no reason to show glimpses to his personality and motivations (rivalry with Kakashi (and Gai ), love for Rin, clan pride, kindness, working hard, wish to be Hokage).


----------



## Mugivara (Aug 31, 2012)

To people who thik Tobi is Obito:

Did last chapter really satisfy you? so, was this the thing you were waiting for so long?

Come on

As I say for years, a body is just a body


----------



## Let'sFightingLove (Aug 31, 2012)

no it didn't satisfy me even though it was confirmed it's obito. It should have just been a known thought.


----------



## Mugivara (Aug 31, 2012)

Let'sFightingLove said:


> no it didn't satisfy me even though it was confirmed it's obito. It should have just been a known thought.



It couldn't because it was obvious that there was Obito's face behind the mask...

The real action is just starting in Naruto world...


----------



## Let'sFightingLove (Aug 31, 2012)

A ninja must look underneath the underneath? Does that apply to masks and faces too?


----------



## HakuGaara (Aug 31, 2012)

ObitoUchiha111 said:


> According to this chapter, no he wasn't.



Please point out where exactly in this chapter it shows evidence of Madara living past Nagato's youth.



ObitoUchiha111 said:


> So, he attacked Konoha with Kurama. So what? He fought Minato cuz he had to get him outta da way. It's not as if he was *purposefully* mirroring Madara.



Yes of course, pretending to be Madara and attacking the same village with the same bijuu, it's all just one giant coincidence 



ObitoUchiha111 said:


> You mean like the baseless assumption that Tobi had a body switching technique? The hypocrisy in your post is hilarious.



Logic precludes Tobi from being Obito, therefore he *has* to be someone inhabiting Obito's body. Unlike your argument, logic supports mine.



ObitoUchiha111 said:


> Also, Obito was posing as Madara. Confirmed. he knew what the Will of Fire was. Confirmed. Those aren't baseless assumptions.



There are tons of people besides Hashirama that have the will of fire. It would have made more sense for him to mention someone that both he and Naruto would know, like Kakashi. The *fact* that he *specifically* mentioned Hashirama is telling. 



ObitoUchiha111 said:


> *Sir*, having someone's body does not make you that person.



That's exactly my *point*.



ObitoUchiha111 said:


> Orochimaru isn't Genyumaru and was never referred to as such because it wasn't his name.



And Tobi was referred to as Obito....when? 

Also, Kabuto was mistaken for Orochimaru and he doesn't even really look like him.



ObitoUchiha111 said:


> Who cares who had the flashback? The point is Obito's character was further established in it.



Further established? It was just a re-hash of what we *already* know. Nothing new was revealed about Obito. Absolutely *nothing*.



ObitoUchiha111 said:


> Another baseless assumption?



No, fact. There was no dialogue. It was just Kakashi have a 'life flashing before his eyes' moment as he was in shock. That's pretty much what the whole chapter was about. If was anything more than that, there would be dialogue, new information being revealed etc.



ObitoUchiha111 said:


> They said the name Obito is revealed because HIS NAME IS OBITO.



Because Kakashi's flashback was about Obito because he saw Obito's body standing in front of him. 



ObitoUchiha111 said:


> Umm, when? To Konan? He was posing as Madara.



Konan, Kakashi, Yamato.



ObitoUchiha111 said:


> He didn't really know that much about Minato's FTG anyway.



Obito saw *first hand* how the technique was used during Kakashi Gaiden. There should be no surprise at what Minato was capable of.


By the way, you're using the term 'butthurt' in the completely wrong context. You should be sure that your argument is 100% confirmed before using it, otherwise you're just embarrassing yourself.


----------



## dwade (Aug 31, 2012)

And yet, we still have some lunatics in denial.


----------



## Footmax (Aug 31, 2012)

It's an assumption to say that this flashback belongs to Kakashi... NOTHING in this chapter proves it, like I said earlier, Kishi would have made it obvious if it was his memories.
I don't know how you can come to this conclusion when Kakashi only appeared at page 15 (in the present).


----------



## Setsuna00 (Aug 31, 2012)

Footmax said:


> It's an assumption to say that this flashback belongs to Kakashi... NOTHING in this chapter proves it, like I said earlier, Kishi would have made it obvious if it was his memories.
> I don't know how you can come to this conclusion when Kakashi only appeared at page 15 (in the present).



To their dying breath, they will forever deny the truth. That's the folly of human nature.


----------



## Eternity (Aug 31, 2012)

HakuGaara: My father is stronger then your father.

UchihaObito111: Nuh uh! Mine i stronger then yours!

HakuGaara: Nuh uh! I am more right then you!

UchihaObito111: No, my right is more right then your right!


----------



## Thebaxman (Aug 31, 2012)

HakuGaara said:


> Please point out where exactly in this chapter it shows evidence of Madara living past Nagato's youth.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Caman man now you have to stop. Please don't say it was Kakashi's life flashing before his eyes because that is more unlikely than what ObitoUchiha111 is saying. It just looks like you are in DENIAL and you have to avoid that


----------



## HakuGaara (Aug 31, 2012)

Thebaxman said:


> Caman man now you have to stop. Please don't say it was Kakashi's life flashing before his eyes because that is more unlikely than what ObitoUchiha111 is saying. It just looks like you are in DENIAL and you have to avoid that



'More' unlikely? It was a stream of silent pictures that steadily and quickly moved through all the parts of Obito's life that Kakashi was aware of. The flashback ends on Kakashi's face being in shock. How can you look at that and *somehow* misinterpret that as *not* being Kakashi's flashback?

And what *exactly* am I in denial of?


----------



## First Tsurugi (Aug 31, 2012)

HakuGaara please describe what foot tastes like since yours is currently wedged firmly in your mouth.


----------



## NW (Aug 31, 2012)

Ch1p said:


> The flashback had several POVs.
> 
> Obito
> Page 01 - panel 1
> ...


Exactly.



Mugivara said:


> To people who thik Tobi is Obito:
> 
> Did last chapter really satisfy you? so, was this the thing you were waiting for so long?


Of course. Why wouldn't it?



> Come on
> 
> As I say for years, a body is just a body


And? Obito's should is obviously in his body. It's not like it's someone else in it.



HakuGaara said:


> Please point out where exactly in this chapter it shows evidence of Madara living past Nagato's youth.








> Yes of course, pretending to be Madara and attacking the same village with the same bijuu, it's all just one giant coincidence


Where else was he gonna attack? Amegakure? 





> Logic precludes Tobi from being Obito, therefore he *has* to be someone inhabiting Obito's body. Unlike your argument, logic supports mine.


Logic actually precludes Tobi being someone other than Obito that's just using his body. Therefore he *has* to be Obito himself. Unlike your argument, logic supports mine. 



If Tobi wanted to switch to a brand new body, why obito? Why not take a healthy, un-crushed Uchiha's body? And if he for SOOOOOOOOOOOME reason wanted THAT eye SO BADLY, he could have just implanted it into his new body. Why the hell would Kagami or Izuna need a new body anyway? Your logic makes no sense.





> There are tons of people besides Hashirama that have the will of fire. It would have made more sense for him to mention someone that both he and Naruto would know, like Kakashi. The *fact* that he *specifically* mentioned Hashirama is telling.


Posing as Madara.





> That's exactly my *point*.


So there's no reason to name the chapter UCHIHA OBITO if he's not really Obito.





> And Tobi was referred to as Obito....when?


-





> Further established? It was just a re-hash of what we *already* know. Nothing new was revealed about Obito. Absolutely *nothing*.


We didn't know he wanted to be Hokage until this chapter. Also, we didn't know anything about the specifics of this chapter.





> No, fact. There was no dialogue. It was just Kakashi have a 'life flashing before his eyes' moment as he was in shock. That's pretty much what the whole chapter was about. If was anything more than that, there would be dialogue, new information being revealed etc.


So his life flashed before his eyes when he barely saw anything that took place in that flashback? 


There wasn't dialogue because it was meant to be dramatic and if there was dialogue, it would have ruined it. The flashback was from NO ONE'S point of view specifically.



> Konan, Kakashi, Yamato.


Pretending to be Madara in front of all of them.





> Obito saw *first hand* how the technique was used during Kakashi Gaiden. There should be no surprise at what Minato was capable of.


He didn't know it was Hiraishin or what Hiraishin was, and he never fought first hand against it.





> By the way, you're using the term 'butthurt' in the completely wrong context. You should be sure that your argument is 100% confirmed before using it, otherwise you're just embarrassing yourself.


My argument of Tobi being Obito himself? That's 100% confirmed, bud!


----------



## Thebaxman (Aug 31, 2012)

HakuGaara said:


> 'More' unlikely? It was a stream of silent pictures that steadily and quickly moved through all the parts of Obito's life that Kakashi was aware of. The flashback ends on Kakashi's face being in shock. How can you look at that and *somehow* misinterpret that as *not* being Kakashi's flashback?
> 
> And what *exactly* am I in denial of?



Lol come on man the chapter is called *Obito Uchiha*, they are just flashbacks in general of Obito.  

Kakashi wouldn't be having flashbacks *where he could see himself and other parts of Obito's life that he wasn't even present for*. You are butthurt, the most you can do is wait until next week like most of us who are still in denial. 

After there is a chapter called Obito Uchiha, where it's revealed that Tobi is Obito it's pretty clear that ObitoUchiha111 has the edge right now.

Besides, Kakashi's face was not the only face in shock anyways


----------



## Obito (Aug 31, 2012)

*A little over 4 years ago... How well did I do with my predictions?...*

I kinda laughed at my self looking back. Such bad logic, and such bad writing skills. Then again, I was a 15 year old chubby punk back then. 





> "1. The hair is exactly the same. It can't be Danzou, Kishi makes it clear. The last time he has shown Danzou he made him have hair a lot stringer and longer than Tobi's. Tobi's is clearly more firm and spiky.
> 
> 2. Sharingan...!
> 
> ...


.


----------



## Elite Uchiha (Aug 31, 2012)

Obito said:


> I kinda laughed at my self looking back. Such bad logic, and such bad writing skills. Then again, I was a 15 year old chubby punk back then.
> 
> 
> 
> .


Not trying to put your accomplishment down, but a lot of people thought Tobi was Obito.


----------



## Obito (Aug 31, 2012)

Elite Uchiha said:


> Not trying to put your accomplishment down, but a lot of people thought Tobi was Obito.



True, but back then you got negged and called a moron for even considering it.


----------



## Marsala (Aug 31, 2012)

Obito's face with scars(or whatever) airbrushed out:


----------



## HakuGaara (Aug 31, 2012)

Madara was neither shown, nor mentioned in that link, yet for some strange reason you seem to think this somehow 'proves' that Madara was alive past Nagato's youth. I can't wait to hear your 'explanation' for this. 



ObitoUchiha111 said:


> Where else was he gonna attack? Amegakure?



But he didn't attack Amegakure. What he *did* do, was attack Konoha, using the Kyuubi and pretending to be Madara. He's obviously familiar with Madara (They know each other) and has waited quite a long time to finally re-enact what Madara did all those years ago. 



ObitoUchiha111 said:


> Logic actually precludes Tobi being someone other than Obito that's just using his body. Therefore he *has* to be Obito himself. Unlike your argument, logic supports mine.



Tobi using Obito's body doesn't F up the timeline.

Tobi being Obito does F up the timeline.

No matter how much you try to deny it, that *fact* will still remain. 



ObitoUchiha111 said:


> If Tobi wanted to switch to a brand new body, why obito? Why not take a healthy, un-crushed Uchiha's body?



How would I know? Besides it's irrelevant, he's clearly chosen Obito's body.



ObitoUchiha111 said:


> Posing as Madara.



Posing as Madara doesn't prevent him from using more relevant examples.



ObitoUchiha111 said:


> So there's no reason to name the chapter UCHIHA OBITO if he's not really Obito.



Well let's see, most of the chapter was Kakashi's flashback about Obito and then ends with Obito's face being revealed. Seems like 'Uchiha Obito' is as good a title as any for this chapter, no?



ObitoUchiha111 said:


> -



Again, Tobi is neither shown nor mentioned in that link, yet for some reason you seem to think this proves that Tobi is referred to as Obito. I'm beginning to wonder if you even know what evidence *is*.



ObitoUchiha111 said:


> We didn't know he wanted to be Hokage until this chapter.



True, but wanting to become Hokage doesn't establish a connection between Obito and Tobi.



ObitoUchiha111 said:


> Also, we didn't know anything about the specifics of this chapter.



I doubt it's anything enlightening.



ObitoUchiha111 said:


> He didn't know it was Hiraishin or what Hiraishin was, and he never fought first hand against it.



Knowing what it's called or what it is is hardly important when you see how it works right in front of you. And I'm sure that someone who boned up on the history of pretty much everything and knew there was a good chance he would have to fight Minato would at least do some kind of research on it. Yet despite all this *and* being Obito, he was still taken aback by Minato's skill? Sorry but that just plain doesn't make sense.



ObitoUchiha111 said:


> My argument of Tobi being Obito himself? That's 100% confirmed, bud!



Well, you don't know what evidence is so I guess it's hardly surprising that you don't know what 'confirmed' means either.


----------



## ch1p (Aug 31, 2012)

What reasoning. 599 was titled Obito Uchiha, it contained his life story until his "death" in condensed version and mostly from his POV about things that are totally irrrelevant otherwise (who cares if an irrelevant character had a rivalry with Gai, who cares if that same character angsted over a girl not liking him, who cares if he's just one of many who wanted to be Hokage, who cares if he was a fuck up who worked hard), and it ends with Obito's face being revealed and Kakashi saying 'OMFG it's Obito'. And yet, the most likely conclusion for some of you, is that Tobi is some random Uchiha #8271 inhabiting some fodder's body all along.

I'm not even going to mention the fact that , as a means to stimulate emotion. Oh wait, I just did.


----------



## TH4N4T0S (Aug 31, 2012)

HakuGaara said:


> As expected, Obito's face is revealed and all of you are saying 'confirmed!', 'canon' and the like. You all *fell* for it.
> 
> - How did Obito form Akatsuki when he was in diapers?
> 
> ...


What you're saying is: "We don't know shit. Therefore we fell into Kishi's trap."

*thousand-yard stare*

You'd have knocked me miles away with a feather if you knew the answers before the author even revealed them.


> Come on people, *wake up*!


Yes, wake up to the fact that you know nothing. Only after the answers are revealed will you realize whether we "fell" for anything.


----------



## HakuGaara (Aug 31, 2012)

TH4N4T0S said:


> What you're saying is: "We don't know shit. Therefore we fell into Kishi's trap."



Well you apparently don't know how little sense it makes for Tobi to be Obito, so essentially, yes, you fell for it.



TH4N4T0S said:


> You'd have knocked me miles away with a feather if you knew the answers before the author even revealed them.



One doesn't need to know the 'answers' to know that something is illogical.


----------



## First Tsurugi (Aug 31, 2012)

Are we still going to be the illogical ones when you're finally forced to admit you were wrong?


----------



## TH4N4T0S (Aug 31, 2012)

HakuGaara said:


> Well you apparently don't know how little sense it makes for Tobi to be Obito, so essentially, yes, you fell for it.


According to you, people fell for it because you have unanswered questions.

Not a grain of sense there.


> One doesn't need to know the 'answers' to know that something is illogical.


One needs to have enough information to determine whether something is logical.


----------



## HakuGaara (Aug 31, 2012)

First Tsurugi said:


> Are we still going to be the illogical ones when you're finally forced to admit you were wrong?



It's already canon so I won't have to admit any such thing. If Kishimoto reveals Tobi to be Obito, then he fucked up royally.



TH4N4T0S said:


> According to you, people fell for it because you have unanswered questions.



No, people fell for it because there is evidence that precludes Tobi from being Obito and they either forgot about it or are deliberately ignoring it.



TH4N4T0S said:


> One needs to have enough information to determine whether something is logical.



And there is *already* enough information to determine that it's illogical.


----------



## Moon Fang (Aug 31, 2012)

Tobi is Obito in what ways besides looks ?


----------



## TH4N4T0S (Aug 31, 2012)

HakuGaara said:


> No, people fell for it because there is evidence that precludes Tobi from being Obito and they either forgot about it or are deliberately ignoring it.


Nothing conclusive. The readers' inability to connect the dots doesn't give credence to your doubts. 

There is, however, evidence that Tobi is Obito: the entirety of chapter 599. 


> And there is *already* enough information to determine that it's illogical.


The fact that there are thousands questions being asked in the Telegrams, and that we don't know what transpired between Tobi and Madara, means there is not enough information.


----------



## ch1p (Aug 31, 2012)




----------



## Mistshadow (Aug 31, 2012)

HakuGaara said:


> Well you apparently don't know how little sense it makes for Tobi to be Obito, so essentially, yes, you fell for it.
> 
> 
> 
> One doesn't need to know the 'answers' to know that something is illogical.



It makes plenty of sense, not my fault you don't like it, you don't like it well guess what, TOO FUCKING BAD. Just because you can't put 2 and 2 together and its not as simple as tying your shoes doesn't mean its impossible for anyone else to comprehend.



HakuGaara said:


> It's already canon so I won't have to admit any such thing. If Kishimoto reveals Tobi to be Obito, then he fucked up royally.
> 
> No, people fell for it because there is evidence that precludes Tobi from being Obito and they either forgot about it or are deliberately ignoring it.
> 
> And there is *already* enough information to determine that it's illogical.



1. OH BOO HOO, Kishi didn't do something I WANTED him to do, So I'm going to say he fucked up.................you sound like a child.
2. No such EVIDENCE exists. Stuff was left VAGUE on the timeline. The VAGUE timeline made it unlikely to be Obito, but never ruled him out completely as you can see.
3. Oh yeah, so illogical..............even though I RUN on logic, I followed this insanely illogical set up............................................

The only one who fell for anything IS YOU by thinking it was impossible when Kishi was careful not to fuck up, you didn't see how sly he was, and you think HE fuckedup. Because far be it for YOU to make a mistake in analyzing


----------



## HakuGaara (Aug 31, 2012)

Since many of you don't seem to understand what 'logic' or 'evidence' or 'proof' or 'confirmed' or 'denial' means. I'm going to do you all favor and give you a lesson on 'Providing Evidence' free of charge! I'll be using the example "Evidence that Tobi is Not Obito"!

Logic is fairly straightforward, so there is really only one step - provide evidence that proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that your claim is true. So I will commence to do so. It's important to note that the evidence I'll be providing are actual manga *facts* as opposed to 'refutable evidence', so this makes my case pretty air-tight.

*FACT 1:* Madara died long before Obito was born.

Source 1:

No reason to believe Madara is lying, so he died around the same time Nagato got the Rinnegan.

Source 2:

Further proof that Madara died. He wasn't able to observe the progress of Nagato because he wasn't alive to do so.

*FACT 2*: Madara and Tobi know each other.

Source 1:

Madara says 'This must be *his* doing'. Meaning he knows whoever is behind the war. Kabuto says 'I'm Kabuto, *his* assistant'. Well there is only one person that Kabuto was an assistant to at that time and it was Tobi, thus confirming that Madara knows Tobi as well.

Source 2:

Further proof that Madara knows Tobi as they apparently shared the same goals at one point.

Now, what happens when you combine *facts* 1 and 2? Let's see, Madara was dead long before Obito was born and Madara and Tobi know each other fairly well. 

Conclusion: Obviously, logically, It's *impossible* for Tobi and Obito to be the same person. Anyone who tries to refute this evidence without evidence of their own, is in *denial*. 

So there you go boys and girls. This is what 'evidence' is. Remember, assumptions are not evidence. They're just pitiful excuses people use to mask the fact that they have no evidence.


----------



## Rama (Sep 1, 2012)

Moon Fang said:


> Tobi is Obito in what ways besides looks ?



Tobi is Izuna, Shishui, Kagami, Setsuna in what way besides nothing?

Seriously guys until some kind of evidence that suggest that he is being possesed surfaces, you have to atleast accept that he is probably just Obito.


----------



## Leen (Sep 1, 2012)

This is a random post but I have been calling for TOBI = OBITO minus 1eye (minus one O from the name) since the first time TOBI appeared in a scene with Sasori.

Glad to see that years after my original prediction, I am proven right. keke..


----------



## Revolution (Sep 1, 2012)

HakuGaara said:


> Since many of you don't seem to understand what 'logic' or 'evidence' or 'proof' or 'confirmed' or 'denial' means. I'm going to do you all favor and give you a lesson on 'Providing Evidence' free of charge! I'll be using the example "Evidence that Tobi is Not Obito"!
> 
> Logic is fairly straightforward, so there is really only one step - provide evidence that proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that your claim is true. So I will commence to do so. It's important to note that the evidence I'll be providing are actual manga *facts* as opposed to 'refutable evidence', so this makes my case pretty air-tight.
> 
> ...




Inconsistencies you are showing us.  

Remember there are TWO masks with "Tobi" behind them?  Obito is the Orange spiral mask.  Someone else is the Zebra mask.


----------



## MinatoEMS (Sep 1, 2012)

overrall i loved the chapter and i'm finally glad i have my confirmation of my belief that he was obito but i do feel they could of shortened some of that nonsense of the flashback so we could of had more fap for the obito part but since he did this my only fear now is he's going to switch perspectives next chapter to sasuke or madara -_-


----------



## Mima-sama (Sep 1, 2012)

So much arguing and denial in this thread... well, that's to be expected, I suppose.
Still, Tobito and Anti-Tobito people, you both need to take chill pills.
To my fellow Tobito theorists, just remember that


It's true that we won't really know what's going on until Kishimoto provides us with an explanation, though. Still...
Everyone in this thread really just needs to take it easy--

No, Naruto yukkuri. _You get out of here, *now*._​


----------



## A7X (Sep 1, 2012)

Kinda disappointed, I keep hopin some sort of shishui/obito fusion happened somewhere in the past which is prob more crazy than obito being Tobi


----------



## Hoshigaki Kisame (Sep 1, 2012)

Sarahmint said:


> Remember there are TWO masks with "Tobi" behind them?  Obito is the Orange spiral mask.  Someone else is the Zebra mask.



Obito was in both masks.


----------



## LoneyROY7 (Sep 1, 2012)

HakuGaara said:


> Since many of you don't seem to understand what 'logic' or 'evidence' or 'proof' or 'confirmed' or 'denial' means. I'm going to do you all favor and give you a lesson on 'Providing Evidence' free of charge! I'll be using the example "Evidence that Tobi is Not Obito"!
> 
> Logic is fairly straightforward, so there is really only one step - provide evidence that proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that your claim is true. So I will commence to do so. It's important to note that the evidence I'll be providing are actual manga *facts* as opposed to 'refutable evidence', so this makes my case pretty air-tight.
> 
> ...



It's *impossible*? Let me repeat that...it's *impossible*?

It's a fricking manga created by Kishimoto, nothing is "*impossible*", b/c Kishimoto can write and draw whatever the f*** he wants. 

Tobi is Obito. I understand you're angry because your "facts" don't seem to match up. Guess what, bud? The only "fact" that matters is the ink from Kishimoto's pen.

If you don't like it, stop reading it.


----------



## TH4N4T0S (Sep 1, 2012)

HakuGaara said:


> Conclusion: Obviously, logically, It's *impossible* for Tobi and Obito to be the same person. Anyone who tries to refute this evidence


The "evidence" isn't being refuted. The argument is.


> without evidence of their own...


And the best evidence that builds a refutation against your argument is chapter 599.

Tobi has been shown to at least possess Obito's body and techniques, which is clear and convincing evidence that Tobi is Obito. Strangely enough, this doesn't appear in your vaunted collection of evidence.


> is in denial.


Good point. 

You ignore the aforementioned evidence. Therefore, you are in denial.

Edit: Do you know what this means? Do you have any idea what you're missing?


> Remember, assumptions are not evidence.


And that's why you must not assume that nothing out of the ordinary (e.g., the emergence of more than one Tobi, the involvement of a third party like Izuna or Zetsu, and/or the casting of some jutsu that allowed interaction between Obito and Madara) occurred during the period between Madara's death and Obito's transformation into Tobi.

You have implicitly made this terrible assumption by ignoring the evidence that points to Tobi being Obito.

It is at the very least logically possible that Tobi is Obito. There is still _a chance_ that Tobi is somehow not Obito, but that's about it.


----------



## Mistshadow (Sep 1, 2012)

Thebaxman said:


> For once I'm agreeing with Mistshadow and ObitoUchiha111!
> 
> Some of those ''facts'' you listed aren't facts. It's funny how only *you* have proof that Madara died before Obito was born.
> 
> ...



Thank you, and yes I will, because this guy doesn't seem to know what 'evidence' means and wants to condescend like he is all mighty know it all. But then again, what am I thinking, this dude IS Kishimoto afterall, so he must know everything about this manga.



HakuGaara said:


> Since many of you don't seem to understand what 'logic' or 'evidence' or 'proof' or 'confirmed' or 'denial' means. I'm going to do you all favor and give you a lesson on 'Providing Evidence' free of charge! I'll be using the example "Evidence that Tobi is Not Obito"!
> 
> Logic is fairly straightforward, so there is really only one step - provide evidence that proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that your claim is true. So I will commence to do so. It's important to note that the evidence I'll be providing are actual manga *facts* as opposed to 'refutable evidence', so this makes my case pretty air-tight.
> 
> ...



1. Nothing you show is beyond a shadow of a doubt. The fact that there IS doubt shows that it is NOT impossible, not even close.

2. That doesn't say ANYTHING about when he died. 'Shortly' is RELETIVE TO PERSPECTIVE. It can mean any amount of years. Coming from a guy who had created a plan about 100 years or so in the making, and always looks to the future evident by his battle with hashirama going for the piece of his flesh and making said plans. There is approximately 10 years in between the sometime in the 2nd shinobi war and the 3rd shinobi world war. Even going as far as 15 years, that can be considered SHORT to someone who makes plans so long, or is as old as Madara was.

3. As for saying that 'That brat must have grown up' doesn't mean much. He wasn't lying, but Madara is KNOWN to speak in metaphores. He could EASILY have been talking about his power. Since obviously rinne tensei is not an easy jutsu to use, and Nagato didn't come into accessing his rinnegan powers to their max until the yahiko death incident. 

Chapter 501
Are the kages children?

Chapter 501
Is Nagato a kid in this situation? HARDLY

You're so called 'evidence' doesn't cement ANYTHING. It's VAGUE, lets say it together, VAGUE.

4. Yeah MAdara does know Tobi, And thus he knows Obito, and Thus he didn't die when YOU BELIEVE HE DID, but in fact most likely it seems he died sometime after the kannabi bridge incident.

5. So yeah, there is NO cement for WHEN MADARA DIED, so just shut up already and stop whining, open your mind, and stop believing its impossible, because its a lot more likely to be obito in mind and body (easier to explain by kubo) than it is for it to be some random body jumper who concocted some crazy random experiments and got the exact right situation and chose a deformed broken body. You over think things, and You think you know everything............You don't. But wait, you got 'EVIDENCE', my bad, you are right, It isn't Obito, He just looks like Obito..........

Now HERES something interesting..........Kishi FORESHADOWED that SOMEONE like Naruto could become with we are dealing with Tobi. Who was ALOT like Naruto? OH I KNOW OBITO WAS A LOT LIKE NARUTO. Now what did Itachi say would happen is Naruto continued the way he was......hmmmmmmmmmmmmm
Chapter 501
Chapter 501
Chapter 501

No, NVM, You are 100% right, Kishi is going to choose some random character who's personality we have never come to know, and say he was ALWAYS this way, rather than build off the foreshadowing he did that people like Naruto could follow the wrong path, become arrogant, shoulder everything, try and change the world, and forget their friends becoming what Tobi is today..............That's just crazy, Not like THAT is in the manga or anything, we should just ignore what Itachi says, he doesn't know anything. Not like he was written by Kishi or anything.

Seriously dude though, those statements were made to be vague, to not give us anything precise, so that we would not be able to guess 100% who tobi was before the masking.


----------



## Kiss (Sep 1, 2012)

I'm disappointed, but not surprised.


----------



## LeChubert (Sep 1, 2012)

He's probably Obito for sure. As for the time line, when Tobi attacks village and such it's definitely Madara. Kyuubi/Kurama confirmed it. Kyuubi was controlled by Madara 16 years ago, he remembers his chakra and states that he recognizes the chakra to be Madara. So it's for sure that the mask man 16 years ago is Madara. If Tobi Wasn't Obito why would he know so much about Guy and Kakashi? (personally wise I mean) Zetsu could easily fix Obito's body up and Madara probably lived longer than expected.

I don't understand how pissed off people are about this and wanted to give up on this story lol. Kishimotos usual trolling self is expected. Not surprised if he skips to Sasuke or Madara after (Though I'd rip my hair out if the explaination isn't given soon.) People change and some just can't handle it lol however of its cause of Rin I'm going to face palm.


----------



## Itαchi (Sep 1, 2012)

Looks like my theory was right, h?h h?h h?h.


----------



## aiyanah (Sep 1, 2012)

well done kishi on actually being a good writer


----------



## wtfobito (Sep 1, 2012)

LeChubert said:


> He's probably Obito for sure. As for the time line, when Tobi attacks village and such it's definitely Madara. Kyuubi/Kurama confirmed it. Kyuubi was controlled by Madara 16 years ago, he remembers his chakra and states that he recognizes the chakra to be Madara. So it's for sure that the mask man 16 years ago is Madara. If Tobi Wasn't Obito why would he know so much about Guy and Kakashi? (personally wise I mean) Zetsu could easily fix Obito's body up and Madara probably lived longer than expected.
> 
> I don't understand how pissed off people are about this and wanted to give up on this story lol. Kishimotos usual trolling self is expected. Not surprised if he skips to Sasuke or Madara after (Though I'd rip my hair out if the explaination isn't given soon.) People change and some just can't handle it lol however of its cause of Rin I'm going to face palm.



And how do you explain Madara having S/T ninjutsu which only and only obito can use? Because apparently all tobi did while attacking the village was to warp through things.

Kishi's explanation be better than just good.


----------



## wtfobito (Sep 1, 2012)

Sarahmint said:


> Inconsistencies you are showing us.
> 
> Remember there are TWO masks with "Tobi" behind them?  Obito is the Orange spiral mask.  Someone else is the Zebra mask.



We have seen the "zebra" mask tobi use obito's sharingan's S/T ninjutsu in the fight against minato.

So who other than obito and kakashi can use that jutsu?!

I think you just made a discovery if your assumption is right.


----------



## Raventhal (Sep 1, 2012)

Mugivara said:


> Is he your leader?IoI
> 
> I need to remind you



I need to remind you?  

All of the evidence means nothing when you have unmasked the person and it's Obito.  

All of his personality so far when he's being nobody are Obito's.

Here is a question for you.  Why would Madara give his eyes to a kid left to his own devices who could be killed? 

Do you think Madara just shoved Senju Wood in his ass to see if it would work?  Genius mad scientist like Oro had massive failures with a lone survivor Yamato.  

Do you think it's beyond Madara to think to try the reverse as well to test  the Senju + Uchiha eyes = rinnegan?  Giving Nagato basic Uchiha eyes sounds more plasable than giving a random unwatched kid Rinnegans and Nagato now knowing he had Rinnegan before his awakening.


----------



## Hoshigaki Kisame (Sep 1, 2012)

LeChubert said:


> He's probably Obito for sure. As for the time line, when Tobi attacks village and such it's definitely Madara. Kyuubi/Kurama confirmed it. Kyuubi was controlled by Madara 16 years ago, he remembers his chakra and states that he recognizes the chakra to be Madara. So it's for sure that the mask man 16 years ago is Madara.



No. The masked man that attacked Konoha was Obito. He was using the S/T jutsu during his fight with Minato. Madara doesn't have that. And how would Madara still be alive up to that point?


----------



## UkkiThePlant (Sep 1, 2012)

It's Obito but it's not Obito

You cannot all be this slow!


----------



## Eternity (Sep 1, 2012)

UkkiThePlant said:


> It's Obito but it's not Obito
> 
> You cannot all be this slow!



So it's a paradox? 

Yeah..that makes sense.


----------



## son_michael (Sep 1, 2012)

HeLLzRoLLinG said:


> No. The masked man that attacked Konoha was Obito. He was using the S/T jutsu during his fight with Minato. Madara doesn't have that. And how would Madara still be alive up to that point?



the tobi that spoke to Itachi had long hair, that was probably madara.


----------



## UkkiThePlant (Sep 1, 2012)

Eternity said:


> So it's a paradox?
> 
> Yeah..that makes sense.


Mind control, possession, stealing bodies, and so on have obviously never happened in Naruto.


----------



## Mugivara (Sep 1, 2012)

Raventhal said:


> I need to remind you?
> 
> All of the evidence means nothing when you have unmasked the person and it's Obito.
> 
> ...





Actually I would write an answer but to be honest I didn't understand what you meant

Can you please tell me what you want to say?


----------



## LeChubert (Sep 1, 2012)

wtfobito said:


> And how do you explain Madara having S/T ninjutsu which only and only obito can use? Because apparently all tobi did while attacking the village was to warp through things.
> 
> Kishi's explanation be better than just good.





> No. The masked man that attacked Konoha was Obito. He was using the S/T jutsu during his fight with Minato. Madara doesn't have that. And how would Madara still be alive up to that point?



That's strange though, since Kyuubi does say that it was Madara too...could it be possible that both Obito and Madara were both there?


----------



## Eternity (Sep 1, 2012)

UkkiThePlant said:


> Mind control, possession, stealing bodies, and so on have obviously never happened in Naruto.



It has, but chapter named Obito, flashback about Obito, Tobi talking to Kakashi like he know him (he said something about guilt or something to him), face is Obito... Give me another place where mind control, possession, stealing bodies or the like have been the case in a similar manner. 

Anyway, I am a "see and wait" person, so I won't be either for or against the Tobito theory either way.


----------



## UkkiThePlant (Sep 1, 2012)

I see what you're saying, but I'm predicting a bait-and-switch.

Like you said, though, we'll see.


----------



## ch1p (Sep 1, 2012)

son_michael said:


> the tobi that spoke to Itachi had long hair, that was probably madara.



Wasn't that Madara who had a hand on his hip as well? Typical Mada-chan pose there.


----------



## wtfobito (Sep 1, 2012)

Nothing as off yet makes any sense at all.

Because neither we have any answers for those timeline issues, for those quotes made by tobi and madara, and for the latest chapter ending in a "?".

If something ends with a "?", I believe we just cannot be sure of it yet as there are many other suggestions proving the other-wise.


----------



## Mistshadow (Sep 1, 2012)

wtfobito said:


> Nothing as off yet makes any sense at all.
> 
> Because neither we have any answers for those timeline issues, for those quotes made by tobi and madara, and for the latest chapter ending in a "?".
> 
> If something ends with a "?", I believe we just cannot be sure of it yet as there are many other suggestions proving the other-wise.



There are no plot holes. People throw that term around they don't know what it means
Ibiki in very flashback
Do the kages seem like children? Madara speaks in METAPHORS since he was introduced. Always talking about dancing and what not when he fights for example.
It makes plenty of sense if you use CRITICAL THINKING, not my or kishis fault people would rather just throw tantrums


----------



## wtfobito (Sep 1, 2012)

Mistshadow said:


> There are no plot holes. People throw that term around they don't know what it means
> Ibiki in very flashback
> Do the kages seem like children? Madara speaks in METAPHORS since he was introduced. Always talking about dancing and what not when he fights for example.
> It makes plenty of sense if you use CRITICAL THINKING, not my or kishis fault people would rather just throw tantrums



Agreed that madara does like to talk in phrases and metaphors.

But sorry to disapoint you, onoki indeed was a child compared to madara when he fought him in the past. But that's something else.

Also, it would be foolish to say that "short time" can translated to 5-10 years in compared to anything. Besides when did his "plan" even come into consideration when he was talking about when did he awaken his rinnegan.

Also, I believe kishi wouldn't explain to the viewers that by "short time" madara meant 5-10 years metaphorically.


----------



## Mistshadow (Sep 1, 2012)

wtfobito said:


> Agreed that madara does like to talk in phrases and metaphors.
> 
> But sorry to disapoint you,* onoki indeed was a child *compared to madara when he fought him in the past. But that's something else.
> 
> ...



was muu a child? Madara equates power to growth. 
Or hell, even if he was 20, that could still be considered a child to someone as old as madara was. Jiraiya called Nagato a child when he saw him again because Nagato is young in comparison to jiraiya. its about perspective. ifyou can't put yourself in another view, then sorry, thats your fault, because the author can.

foolish? you obviously have never planned something in the long term. I would say 5-10 years is SHORT in the context of my retirement plan/account. 401 K anyone?

The plan WAS to be revived, at least in his view, and it not going as smoothly as planned, tells us the awakening of the rinnegan was an aspect of it.

he doesn't have to, but he just has to explain when madara died, then the rest is implied.


edit: YOU JUST PROVED MY STATEMENT. Onoki was a child TO MADARA, now what do you think Nagato would be in comparison even in his 20's and 30's? Madara would be EVEN OLDER, so he would still be considered a 'brat' until he aged into his rinnegan to its max capacity.


----------



## wtfobito (Sep 1, 2012)

Mistshadow said:


> was muu a child?
> 
> foolish? you obviously have never planned something in the long term. I would say 5-10 years is SHORT in the context of my retirement plan/account. 401 K anyone?
> 
> ...



But I think that *child* thing was stated particularly for onoki and not for muu.

So do the viewers need to plan something in long run to understand something like this? I'll be so damned then.
But like I said earlier, why does he need to imply the 5-10 years as short when his *plan* was nowhere near into consideration.

He was asked a general question: When did you awaken the rinnegan?
to which he replied: shortly before my death.
not that: shortly before my death when my plan was almost about to be completed after such a long long hellova time!

Yeah, I guess the explanation of his death would solve the mystery once and for all.



Mistshadow said:


> edit: YOU JUST PROVED MY STATEMENT. Onoki was a child TO MADARA, now what do you think Nagato would be in comparison even in his 20's and 30's? Madara would be EVEN OLDER, so he would still be considered a 'brat' until he aged into his rinnegan to its max capacity.



The brat argument is how did madara meet nagato and how did he manage to explain his plan to obito.

Now it is for sure that nagato was given his rinnegan in his childhood.

So that means we will need to go back again 20-25 years i.e to nagato's childhood which also brings madara to 20-25 years back which also gets us to where we started.


----------



## Mistshadow (Sep 1, 2012)

wtfobito said:


> But I think that *child* thing was stated particularly for onoki and not for muu.
> 
> So do the viewers need to plan something in long run to understand something like this? I'll be so damned then.
> But like I said earlier, why does he need to imply the 5-10 years as short when his *plan* was nowhere near into consideration.
> ...



It's called an edit button, don't double post.

The VERY fact that Madara could call Onoki a child, tells us he can call NAgato a child at any age, Onoki is almost, if not, double the age of Nagato regardless of how you look at it.

The VERY fact that he makes plans in the long run tells us that his perspective of time, is different than ours. He planned since his fight with hashirama at vote to do eye of the moon plan it would seem.

Well yeah, thats a mystery we are waiting for, the specificness for how Nagato got the eyes. 
BUT THE FACT, that Nagato had the eyes, tells us he got them before Tobi/Obito came into being, because if he was around, he would have been given the rinnegan instead of nagato to use instead of some random spare sharingans. Would have been a lot easier since nagato dying prematurely wasn't part of the plan, and tobi/obito had to go through a good amount of trouble and being aggrevated getting back that rinnegan.
Nagato came into the plan before tobi/obito. We can come to this conclusion with deductive reasoning. And its more simple and logical than some random body jumper who wanted the dead uchiha more than wahtever body he had before then. and would require a shit ton more explanations than just covering a timeline.


----------



## aiyanah (Sep 1, 2012)

UkkiThePlant said:


> Mind control, possession, stealing bodies, and so on have obviously never happened in Naruto.



wont change that its obito d00d
grow up


----------



## Arya Stark (Sep 1, 2012)

Invasion of Kyuubi was before Uchiha Massacre, right? 
Does it mean Obito had only one eye during his fight with Minato?


----------



## wtfobito (Sep 1, 2012)

Mistshadow said:


> It's called an edit button, don't double post.
> 
> The VERY fact that Madara could call Onoki a child, tells us he can call NAgato a child at any age, Onoki is almost, if not, double the age of Nagato regardless of how you look at it.
> 
> ...



Exactly. Now that makes some sense.

Like I said earlier, to this point nothing is clear to who tobi really is.

The only reasonable solution could be either that all obito and madara did is lie, lie and lie.

Or maybe madara was not referring to tobi/obito as "him".
I think "him" was someone else like a third person was also included into the plan. That's my personal opinion though.

Also, "him" can be orochimaru because kabuto also said that "I am *him's* assistant". This could make more sense if madara, orochimaru and obito all three of them had planned this from beginning.

But then orochimaru also stated that he has no interest in this war. So again, no point.
To be honest anything can happen considering kishi.


----------



## Mima-sama (Sep 1, 2012)

Chapter 600 just can't come fast enough, can it?
Say what you will about the rest of his writing, but Kishi sure knows how to write cliffhangers.


----------



## Thebaxman (Sep 1, 2012)

wtfobito said:


> Exactly. Now that makes some sense.
> 
> Like I said earlier, to this point nothing is clear to who tobi really is.
> 
> ...



You don't make any sense


----------



## wtfobito (Sep 1, 2012)

Thebaxman said:


> You don't make any sense



All I'm trying to say is that there was a 3rd person along with madara and obito included in the plan.

Because madara saying "he" seems to be vague and adds to the suspense.

There might be a possibility that madara did die soon after giving eyes to rinnegan, and maybe that 3rd person explained the whole moon's eye plan and the history of madara to obito. This would also solve the timeline issues.

EDIT: Also I'm sure tobi was not aware clearly of the moon's eye plan from the beginning, because why would he then need to destroy konoha when he had the kyubi?

I don't think konoha needs to be necessarily destroyed for infinite tsukuyomi. He could have simply ran away after extracting the kyubi.
But strangely he didn't.


----------



## Mistshadow (Sep 1, 2012)

we are 600 chapters into the manga, and you really believe there is another mastermind (3rd party) behind THE MASTERMIND (Madara) behind the mastermind (obito/tobi) who was behind the mastermind (pein/nagato), and we have never heard of him or had any build up for it to be him....................................



And you really want to say that Obito being himself is far-fetched 

come on dude, listen to what you are saying.


edit: It's MasterMindCeption!


----------



## LeChubert (Sep 1, 2012)

Erm...what a huge argument this has turned out to be. Then again, when I look at my theory as well, it makes no sense either. Madara could have been the one under the mask at the time to attack the Kyuubi but apparently Madara does't use S/T Jutsu. But Remember when Neji attacked Sakura, but was actually Zetsu. He some how copied Neji's exact chakra to make him unnoticeable. This could be the case when tobi...obito...I don't know, attacked the village using Madara's chakra as a cover up...?


----------



## ninjaneko (Sep 1, 2012)

Bwahahahaha! Tobito theory is true! loooolz. 

I just had to get that out  




Hydro Spiral said:


> Man, wouldn't it be something else if Rin is the reason why Obito says that he's just "No One"?


That's possible. What happened to Rin has been a burning question for me for years now. Looks like we'll be getting some answers. I'm also intrigued to see how Obito got to be the way he is now. He was so good and now it's...tragic. 

It's interesting. Obito is basically Naruto as an Uchiha. And he ended up a bad guy. Kakashi was a jerk who ended up a noble person. Meanwhile, their parallels, Naruto and Sasuke, although starting the same way, have had different outcomes thus far.


----------



## HakuGaara (Sep 1, 2012)

Sarahmint said:


> Inconsistencies you are showing us.
> 
> Remember there are TWO masks with "Tobi" behind them?  Obito is the Orange spiral mask.  Someone else is the Zebra mask.



Three actually and Tobi was in all of them. Short hair is Obito's body. Long hair was the previous body as that was before Obito's death. 

And no, it's not Madara. Madara has no motive to hide his face. Tobi is the one that hides his face, not Madara.



LoneyROY7 said:


> It's *impossible*? Let me repeat that...it's *impossible*?
> 
> It's a fricking manga created by Kishimoto, nothing is "*impossible*", b/c Kishimoto can write and draw whatever the f*** he wants.



I'm perfectly aware of that. I'm saying it's impossible logically, not literally.



LoneyROY7 said:


> Tobi is Obito. I understand you're angry because your "facts" don't seem to match up.



Why would I be angry? The facts haven't been contradicted yet and even if they are in future issues, that's Kishimoto's problem, not mine.



TH4N4T0S said:


> The "evidence" isn't being refuted. The argument is.



An argument is based on evidence. In order to refute the argument, you have to refute the evidence. 



TH4N4T0S said:


> And the best evidence that builds a refutation against your argument is chapter 599.



Tobi is neither shown, nor mentioned in the entire flashback. So this is actually evidence of...nothing! Were you not paying attention to my example? That's what evidence is. If you have a link to a scene that proves Tobi is Obito be my guest and provide it but don't sit there and tell me a flashback of Obito that has no hint of Tobi anywhere in it, is 'evidence' of Tobi being Obito. 



TH4N4T0S said:


> Tobi has been shown to at least possess Obito's body and techniques, which is clear and convincing evidence that Tobi is Obito.



It's certainly evidence that Tobi is using Obito's body. But aside from that, nothing.



TH4N4T0S said:


> Strangely enough, this doesn't appear in your vaunted collection of evidence.



That's because it isn't evidence. Especially in a manga were people disguise themselves as other people all the time and in the face of *established* evidence that Tobi can't be Obito, I can hardly see how having his body and techniques prove *anything*.



TH4N4T0S said:


> You ignore the aforementioned evidence. Therefore, you are in denial.



You have yet to provide any evidence so what *exactly* am I ignoring?



TH4N4T0S said:


> Edit: Do you know what this means? Do you have any idea what you're missing?



If I'm missing something, then it might help your argument to reveal what that is exactly.



TH4N4T0S said:


> You have implicitly made this terrible assumption by ignoring the evidence that points to Tobi being Obito.



I have *clearly* provided evidence (which you have not been able to refute) that precludes Tobi from being Obito, so I'm not 'assuming' anything. I'm simply going by what the manga has already shown me. 

The fact that you're actually sitting there and trying to convince me that Tobi is Obito *despite* the evidence I have provided is what denial is all about.


----------



## ch1p (Sep 1, 2012)

@HakuGaara: While I believe Orochimaru might have a hand on this whole ordeal because we just know Orochimaru is the type to have a finger in any pie, there is no need for a third character. Kishimoto has said Obito and Madara knew each other. Considering Obito was a nice guy until at least the bridge incident, then that means Madara had to survive at least until that moment, one year or two before Naruto was born. However, Nagato was much older at that point and he got the Rinnegan as a child. There is no shortly after. Madara lived at least 20 years after that. Madara has a deceptive awareness of time. He lived for akmost a century, that's expected.



ninjaneko said:


> It's interesting. Obito is basically Naruto as an Uchiha. And he ended up a bad guy. Kakashi was a jerk who ended up a noble person. Meanwhile, their parallels, Naruto and Sasuke, although starting the same way, have had different outcomes thus far.



Yes, it is interesting. Itachi says the difference between Naruto and Obito is that Naruto relied on his friends (because if he doesn't, he'll end up like Tobi). Naruto once said to Gaara that it was Iruka and then Team 7 who saved him from darkness. Once Gaara embraced his bonds, with his siblings and then with Naruto, he also turned _good_. However, Sasuke threw away his bonds and fell into darkness. It all comes full circle. Work with friends and you'll always be okay. Be alone and you'll not be okay. It ties in well nicelly with the theme that not being acknowledged, aka not having bonds, is painful.


----------



## Terra Branford (Sep 1, 2012)

If Rin is a reason for Obito's turn into Tobi, I hope Kishi can make it plausible, or not something really stupid, like related to his love. I mean, if that doesn't make sense, that I hope Obito's reasons is about one-sided feelings, but understanding loss and whatnot and having that as his reasons.

Ugh...did that make sense?


----------



## HakuGaara (Sep 1, 2012)

Ch1p said:


> @HakuGaara: While I believe Orochimaru might have a hand on this whole ordeal because we just know Orochimaru is the type to have a finger in any pie, there is no need for a third character.



Who said anything about Orochimaru? He's already stated that he has zero interest in the war.



Ch1p said:


> Kishimoto has said Obito and Madara knew each other.



Sigh.. proof please.



Ch1p said:


> There is no shortly after. Madara lived at least 20 years after that. Madara has a deceptive awareness of time. He lived for akmost a century, that's expected.



You're *deliberately ignoring* words that came of of Madara's *own* mouth. The fact that he looks the same age as he would have been when he died only proves that he died when he said he did.


----------



## Mistshadow (Sep 1, 2012)

This is becoming a joke


HakuGaara said:


> You're *deliberately ignoring* words that came of of Madara's *own* mouth. The fact that he looks the same age as he would have been when he died only proves that he died when he said he did.



And you are deliberately ignoring PERSPECTIVE, When Madara says 'shortly' it could mean a lot of different things, not just 1 or 2 years. And if there is no exact date, you can't say its impossible, and because there is no specificness, we can not make a good judgement,'''
OMG DID YOU SERIOUSLY USE THE WAY HE LOOKS AS PROOF!? AFTER Kabuto himself said that he made Madara a SPECIAL edo tensei to be composed of his prime along with the best enhancements and abilities he had in his life? YOU CANT USE HIS APPEARANCE when its known he lived longer but was resurrected with his youth. hahahahahhahahaha


And Kishi said Madara and Tobi know each other in an interview. 

Sorry but I don't see any reason for you to be so confident in this. It's just setting yourself up to be wrong and look foolish, its called having an open mind. Do I need to show you my old fantastic "Open-Minded' thread?

Hell I'm probably on ignore, but someone should repost the things I've typed then, maybe that will get through to him.


----------



## TH4N4T0S (Sep 1, 2012)

HakuGaara said:


> An argument is based on evidence. In order to refute the argument, you have to refute the evidence.


Which is clearly not the point. The point, and I can't believe I have to stress it, is that I'm not questioning your choice of "evidence." Your argument, the conclusion you have arrived at, is my concern.

Here's a present for you:



> Tobi is neither shown, nor mentioned in the entire flashback. So this is actually evidence of...nothing!


The evidence I presented was chapter 599, not the flashback. Moments after the flashback, we are shown evidence that Tobi is Obito.

Try again. 




> Especially in a manga were people disguise themselves as other...


I know, and it's quite cool. Characters create moons, resurrect people, teleport across continents, single-handedly wipe out entire villages, summon meteors, cut mountain tops, survive decapitation, seal Godzilla-esque beasts into babies, and communicate with their children after death too, you know. For all you know, time travel, astral projection, cloning, and temporal remote viewing are possible, too. 

You don't have evidence that Tobi is disguised, by the way. 


> I can hardly see how having his body and techniques prove *anything*.


It proves that Tobi being Obito is not impossible.


> You have yet to provide any evidence...


Way to contradict yourself:
*Spoiler*: __ 





HakuGaara said:


> It's certainly evidence that Tobi is using Obito's body.





When you use someone's body, that's pretty damn evidence that you are that body. 


> If I'm missing something, then it might help your argument to reveal what that is exactly.


Read carefully:

_Obviously, logically, It's impossible for Tobi and Obito to be the same person. Anyone who tries to refute this evidence without evidence of their own, is in denial. _

Great. Since you have so much faith in your reasoning, I'm gonna use it to support my own argument:

_Obviously, logically, it's possible for Tobi and Obito to be the  same person. Anyone who tries to refute this evidence (chapter 599) without evidence  of their own, is in denial. _

You have no evidence that the Obito you see in chapter 599 is a different person. Thus, you are in denial.


> The fact that you're actually sitting there and trying to convince me that Tobi is Obito *despite* the evidence I have provided is what denial is all about.


Argumentation is an exchange of evidence presented through logical reasoning. By your logic, however, a person automatically wins just by presenting evidence -- tenuous evidence, no less.

How droll.

The relationship between Madara and Tobi does not constitute  evidence  that supports the impossibility of Tobito,  as it is unknown how it  transpired. Strictly speaking, you may call it circumstantial evidence,  but this only suggests that Tobi is _possibly _not Obito.


----------



## HakuGaara (Sep 2, 2012)

TH4N4T0S said:


> Which is clearly not the point. The point, and I can't believe I have to stress it, is that I'm not questioning your choice of "evidence." The conclusion you have arrived at is my concern.



My conclusion is based on the evidence I have provided. If you're not questioning my evidence, then there is no reason for you to question my conclusion (especially since there is no contradictory evidence).



TH4N4T0S said:


> Moments after the flashback, we are shown evidence that Tobi is Obito.



Such as?



TH4N4T0S said:


> You don't have evidence that Tobi is disguised, by the way.



I've already provided evidence - Tobi is far older than the body he's inhabiting. Plus it's his M.O. He constantly hid his face, he switches personalities, he pretended to be Madara etc. etc.



TH4N4T0S said:


> It proves that Tobi being Obito is not impossible.



Oh really? Please explain the logic of it then.



TH4N4T0S said:


> Way to contradict yourself



Please explain to me how that's a contradiction.



TH4N4T0S said:


> When you use someone's body, that's pretty damn evidence that you are that body.



So when Ino uses Sakura's body, Ino *is* Sakura? *Brilliant logic!!!* clap, clap, clap.



TH4N4T0S said:


> You have no evidence that the Obito you see in chapter 599 is a different person. Thus, you are in denial.



Sorry but the evidence I've provided here -http://www.narutoforums.com/showpost.php?p=44368127&postcount=409 - is not a figment of my imagination and is not going to go away no matter how hard you try to ignore it.



TH4N4T0S said:


> Argumentation is an exchange of evidence presented through logical reasoning.



This really isn't much of an argument considering you're neither using evidence nor logical reasoning.



TH4N4T0S said:


> The relationship between Madara and Tobi does not constitute  evidence  that supports the impossibility of Tobito,  as it is unknown how it  transpired.



How it transpired is irrelevant. Madara died before Obito was born. Madara and Tobi know each other. Therefore, Tobi has to be older than Obito and is therefore not Obito. It's not rocket science. If you want to deliberately ignore what the manga has clearly shown you, then don't bother replying to me as this is getting tedious.


----------



## Mistshadow (Sep 2, 2012)

I honestly can't wait, in 4 days when it shows that Madara died after the 3rd shinobi war, hakugaara is going to be like 'ZOMG KISHI MESSED UP GUYS' because his is the ONLY conclusion you can come to when a vague statement is given. I bet he secretly knows the exact year he died too in the story.


----------



## TH4N4T0S (Sep 2, 2012)

HakuGaara said:


> My conclusion is based on the evidence I have provided. If you're not questioning my evidence, then there is no reason for you to question my conclusion (especially since there is no contradictory evidence).


Not if your conclusion doesn't make sense.

1. The last chapter shows Tobi to be Obito.
2. It is logically possible that Madara and Obito communicated with each other after Madara's death. 


> Such as?


The last chapter showing Tobi to be Obito.


> I've already provided evidence - Tobi is far older than the body he's inhabiting. Plus it's his M.O. He constantly hid his face, he switches personalities, he pretended to be Madara etc. etc.


Which says that Tobi is, you know, possibly not Obito. How you've managed to translate this to "Tobi being Obito is impossible" is nothing short of laughable.


> Oh really? Please explain the logic of it then.
> 
> Please explain to me how that's a contradiction.



*Spoiler*: __ 





HakuGaara said:


> It's certainly evidence that Tobi is  using Obito's body.





When you use someone's body, that's  pretty damn evidence that you are that body. 


> So when Ino uses Sakura's body, Ino *is* Sakura?


The thing is, there is evidently no Ino in Tobi's case. You see Tobi having Obito's body, with no evidence that someone else is in control. Pretty strong and convincing evidence that Tobi is Obito.

Your "point" is invalid. 


> Sorry but the evidence I've provided here -http://www.narutoforums.com/showpost.php?p=44368127&postcount=409


is circumstantial evidence that Tobi is possibly not Obito. It doesn't even remotely show that someone else is inside Obito or controlling him from afar.


> This really isn't much of an argument


because you are ignoring the fact that Tobi has Obito's face, powers, etc., and that we don't know what happened between Madara and Tobi.


> How it transpired is


relevant:

_Characters create moons, resurrect people, teleport across continents,  single-handedly wipe out entire villages, summon meteors, cut mountain  tops, survive decapitation, seal Godzilla-esque beasts into babies, and  communicate with their children after death too, you know. For all you  know, time travel, astral projection, cloning, and temporal remote  viewing are possible, too. _


> If you want to deliberately ignore what the manga has clearly shown you


like the moons, resurrection, space-time jutsu thing, then don't bother replying to me as this is getting tedious.


----------



## Lord Glacial (Sep 2, 2012)

If this came as a surprise to anyone, then you should go back and read the manga from chapter 1 and up.


----------



## jacamo (Sep 2, 2012)

if it turns out to be someone else in Obtio's body... then lol


----------



## Mistshadow (Sep 2, 2012)

jacamo said:


> if it turns out to be someone else in Obtio's body... then lol



says the guy who claims its 'IMPOSSIBLE' to be Obito ............................................


----------



## Escargon (Sep 2, 2012)

jacamo said:


> if it turns out to be someone else in Obtio's body... then lol



The chapter started with "The boy had a dream" it would be so weird if hes controlled


----------



## jacamo (Sep 2, 2012)

it will be confirmed when its confirmed

until then, continue with your premature celebrations


----------



## Escargon (Sep 2, 2012)

jacamo said:


> it will be confirmed when its confirmed
> 
> until then, continue with your premature celebrations



Whaaaaaat?


----------



## rob1out (Sep 2, 2012)

The next chapter better be his back story, about how he met madara and all of those things... because im dying to know it.... then we can also find out how madara lived so long and all that


----------



## T-Bag (Sep 2, 2012)

im actually adjusting to the idea believe it or not. before i couldnt standdddd it like i would literally curse the tobito supporters out but now it doesnt seem so bad. i actually feel bad for obito


----------



## AMtrack (Sep 2, 2012)

Lol its kinda funny how many times one guy will stick his foot in his mouth.  If you have a bad hand dont keep putting more chips in the pot.  Seriously have some pride.  Why willingly be a buffoon every week.


----------



## Rios (Sep 2, 2012)

Dont know what all these celebrations are about beside the usual "I told you so" we see every week. Kishi proved he cant write anything but Uchiha because their eyes are just that adjustable to the situation and having every plot required power you can think of. Main reason I hated Tobi=Obito is because I wanted him to go outside of the box and use someone who is not an Uchiha but alas, thats not possible now. Three Uchihas contending to be the main villain is....wasted potential.


----------



## jacamo (Sep 2, 2012)

rob1out said:


> The next chapter better be his back story, about how he met madara and all of those things... because im dying to know it.... then we can also find out how madara lived so long and all that





T-Bag said:


> im actually adjusting to the idea believe it or not. before i couldnt standdddd it like i would literally curse the tobito supporters out but now it doesnt seem so bad. i actually feel bad for obito



if it is Obito in body and mind... at least we can look forward to his backstory, Kishi's explanations should be very interesting


----------



## aiyanah (Sep 2, 2012)

jacamo said:


> it will be confirmed when its confirmed
> 
> until then, continue with your premature celebrations



you obviously didn't read the narrative words on the last page
or maybe its just your own disbelief stopping you from accepting what you saw
go read the chap again, only the last page has lines to read anyway, should be quick


----------



## FZexia (Sep 2, 2012)

Awesome, maybe next chapter Kakashi VS Obito


----------



## namezox (Sep 2, 2012)

jacamo said:


> if it turns out to be someone else in Obtio's body... then lol



If that is the case, the forum will go even crazier than this week. I want that to happen. Not because I am against Obito being Tobi ( mind and soul) but to see the reaction of the forum.


----------



## Rios (Sep 2, 2012)

I'd be happy.


----------



## Itαchi (Sep 2, 2012)

This seriously is the best twist I ever read.

And I always longed for it ...


----------



## jacamo (Sep 2, 2012)

aiyanah said:


> you obviously didn't read the narrative words on the last page
> or maybe its just your own disbelief stopping you from accepting what you saw
> go read the chap again, only the last page has lines to read anyway, should be quick





Jeαnne said:


> well, i will say that the fact that *the chapter ended with kakashi questioning if he is obito*, doesnt confirm that tobi is obito just yet.



simply this... the chapter ended with a question, not a confirmation





namezox said:


> If that is the case, the forum will go even crazier than this week. I want that to happen. Not because I am against Obito being Tobi ( mind and soul) but to see the reaction of the forum.



lol it would be so cruel


----------



## Moon Fang (Sep 2, 2012)

Seems like a question is a confirmation when it suits them. Why ask the question if it's already been answered ? I expect Tobi to say no and Kishi does his magical explanation to explain this shit. I'm not believing Tobi is anyone until I hear it from the horses mouth.


----------



## DeK3iDE (Sep 2, 2012)

Rios said:


> Dont know what all these celebrations are about beside the usual "I told you so" we see every week. Kishi proved he cant write anything but Uchiha because their eyes are just that adjustable to the situation and having every plot required power you can think of. Main reason I hated Tobi=Obito is because I wanted him to go outside of the box and use someone who is not an Uchiha but alas, thats not possible now. Three Uchihas contending to be the main villain is....wasted potential.


Didn't you already get the sense from Kishimoto reveaing the story of Rikudou & his sons that an Uchiha was going to be behind the mask? Regardless of who i believed Tobi should've been i knew he was someone from the Uchiha bloodline. Should've used some common sense dude, ijs


----------



## Mistshadow (Sep 2, 2012)

jacamo said:


> *if *it is Obito in body and mind... at least we can look forward to his backstory, Kishi's explanations should be very interesting



So now you FINALLY see that it is a possibility? OMG GUYS, I THINK SHES GOT IT< BY GOD I THINK SHES GOT IT


----------



## Leuconoe (Sep 2, 2012)

Yeah the back story is really exciting. I wanna see how Kishi pulls this off.


----------



## HakuGaara (Sep 2, 2012)

TH4N4T0S said:


> Not if your conclusion doesn't make sense.
> 
> 1. The last chapter shows Tobi to be Obito.
> 2. It is logically possible that Madara and Obito communicated with each other after Madara's death.



1. Where?
2. It's possible but neither likely nor evidenced.

As you can see, my conclusion still stands.



TH4N4T0S said:


> The last chapter showing Tobi to be Obito.



*Where?* You keep saying this yet you never provide scans of this. I've already went over the chapter multiple times and I don't see *anywhere* it showing Tobi to be Obito.



TH4N4T0S said:


> Which says that Tobi is, you know, possibly not Obito. How you've managed to translate this to "Tobi being Obito is impossible" is nothing short of laughable.



Again, you can ignore this -  - as much as you want but that doesn't mean it's going to 'magically' go away.



TH4N4T0S said:


> When you use someone's body, that's  pretty damn evidence that you are that body.



Except when there's *already* existing *facts* that say otherwise. -  - 



TH4N4T0S said:


> The thing is, there is evidently no Ino in Tobi's case. You see Tobi having Obito's body, with no evidence that someone else is in control. Pretty strong and convincing evidence that Tobi is Obito.



Except that *facts* already show us that's impossible, so Obito's body being revealed actually proves *nothing* aside from his body being used!!!



TH4N4T0S said:


> is circumstantial evidence that Tobi is possibly not Obito. It doesn't even remotely show that someone else is inside Obito or controlling him from afar.



*Facts* are not 'circumstantial evidence'. Madara died when Nagato got the rinnegan. This is out of Madara's own mouth so it is *fact*. Madara and Tobi know each other as expressed specifically by Madara's dialogue so it is also a *fact*. There is nothing 'circumstantial' about it.



TH4N4T0S said:


> because you are ignoring the fact that Tobi has Obito's face, powers, etc.,



I acknowledge that Tobi is using Obito's body, so *how* can I be ignoring the fact that Tobi has Obito's face, powers etc?



TH4N4T0S said:


> and that we don't know what happened between Madara and Tobi.



We already know that Madara died years before Obito was born so what 'happened' between Madara and Tobi is completely irrelevant. 



TH4N4T0S said:


> _Characters create moons, resurrect people, teleport across continents,  single-handedly wipe out entire villages, summon meteors, cut mountain  tops, survive decapitation, seal Godzilla-esque beasts into babies, and  communicate with their children after death too, you know. For all you  know, time travel, astral projection, cloning, and temporal remote  viewing are possible, too. _



You keep mentioning this like you have some kind of point....What is your point exactly?



TH4N4T0S said:


> like the moons, resurrection, space-time jutsu thing, then don't bother replying to me as this is getting tedious.



What does those things have to do with *anything* regarding Tobi's identity? Irrelevant much?


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## gjoerulv (Sep 3, 2012)

@HakuGaara

I think TH4N4T0S is trying to say that there might be jutsus(etc.) not yet revealed that can explain the timeline inconsistencies with Tobi = Obito.

I agree too that as it stands there are inconsistencies with tobito, but I don't deny tobito. Except from the inconsistencies mentioned 1564864 times, tobito does make sense.


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## biar (Sep 3, 2012)

How the hell was Yondaime's face on the mountain when Obito was still "alive"?


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## Mistshadow (Sep 3, 2012)

I can't wait until I can say 'I told You So' to the people who can't think outside the box.


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## TH4N4T0S (Sep 3, 2012)

HakuGaara said:


> 1. Where?





> 2. It's possible...


Which means it is not impossible that Obito is Tobi. That's the point. The possibility that your premise is mistaken falsifies your conclusion.


> I don't see *anywhere* it showing Tobi to be Obito.


Do you know what "show" means? 


Hint: Showing is not the same as proving.


> Again, you can ignore this -  - as much as you want but that doesn't mean it's going to 'magically' go away.
> 
> Except when there's *already* existing *facts* that say otherwise. -  -
> 
> ...


What determines the circumstantial characteristic of evidence is whether it directly or indirectly supports a conclusion. Fingerprints are circumstantial evidence, as they do not directly show or substantially exhibit who committed the crime or how it was committed. 

The "facts" you mentioned do not make it impossible for Tobi to be Obito, as they don't show whether Madara and Obito somehow met each other, and we do not know what occurred between them. What occurred between them is relevant because the following, particularly the ones in bold:

_create moons, resurrect people, teleport across  continents,  single-handedly wipe out entire villages, summon meteors,  cut mountain  tops, survive decapitation, seal Godzilla-esque beasts  into babies,  *communicate with their children after death... time travel, astral projection, cloning, and  temporal remote  viewing... *_

are possible, even by your own admission. The fact that Tobi's face is shown to be Obito's, on the other hand, is direct evidence that Tobi is Obito. Therefore, the idea that it is impossible for Tobi to be Obito is incorrect.

If you don't know what you're talking about, then please stop wasting everyone's time.


> I acknowledge that Tobi is using Obito's body, so *how* can I be ignoring the fact that Tobi has Obito's face, powers etc?


By concluding that it's impossible for Tobi to be Obito. 

Take a look in the mirror. You see HakuGaara. If you don't think this shows at least clearly and convincingly that what is seen in the mirror is HakuGaara, then you need professional help.


> what 'happened' between Madara and Tobi is completely


relevant, because these:

_create moons, resurrect people, teleport across  continents,  single-handedly wipe out entire villages, summon meteors,  cut mountain  tops, survive decapitation, seal Godzilla-esque beasts  into babies,  *communicate with their children after death, time travel, astral projection, cloning, and  temporal remote  viewing... 

*_again, are possible. Your argument hinges on the idea that it was impossible for Madara and Obito to have met. This is made false by the above-mentioned possibilities, among other things.  

You don't ignore possibilities just because they crush your argument.


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## Ricky Sen (Sep 3, 2012)

*Spoiler*: __ 





Why are your posts so fucking good?? Poster of the year for life.

Can you win a pulitzer prize for Naruto discussion?


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## Mistshadow (Sep 3, 2012)

Ricky Sen said:


> Why are your posts so fucking good?? Poster of the year for life.
> 
> Can you win a pulitzer prize for Naruto discussion?



because he's almost as good as me and he has this special thing called LOGIC =p =p=p=p=p=p=p


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## HakuGaara (Sep 3, 2012)

All I'm seeing is Obito's body. Nowhere in that scan does it say that Tobi is Obito.



TH4N4T0S said:


> Which means it is not impossible that Obito is Tobi. That's the point. The possibility that your premise is mistaken falsifies your conclusion.



Sigh.. how redundant. *Anything* is possible but you won't see me making threads about anything and everything. Theories should be based on evidence, not *assumptions* and Madara conversing with Obito is an *assumption* at this point.

I can say it's 'possible' that Kishimoto will shade the next chapter in purples but that doesn't mean I'm going to 'assume' he'll do so when there is no evidence that he will do so.



TH4N4T0S said:


> Hint: Showing is not the same as proving.



Exactly my point. Showing Obito's body is not remotely the same thing as proving he's actually Obito.



TH4N4T0S said:


> The "facts" you mentioned do not make it impossible for Tobi to be Obito,



Agreed but it does make it highly unlikely, which, since there is no supporting evidence that Tobi is Obito, remains highly unlikely.



TH4N4T0S said:


> The fact that Tobi's face is shown to be Obito's, on the other hand, is direct evidence that Tobi is Obito.



In light of the evidence I provided earlier, you need more than just Obito's face. Thinking otherwise is just premature.



TH4N4T0S said:


> By concluding that it's impossible for Tobi to be Obito.



Tobi being Obito has nothing to do with the body being the same and the techniques being the same. If Obito was in some other character's body does that mean he's not really Obito? All those Edo Tensai that used sacrificial bodies, I guess we'll never know who they 'really' were then? It's about time you woke up and realized what kind of manga you're reading.



TH4N4T0S said:


> Take a look in the mirror. You see HakuGaara. If you don't think this shows at least clearly and convincingly that what is seen in the mirror is HakuGaara, then you need professional help.



So now you're confusing reality with fantasy (who needs professional help?). Obviously, in real life, if I look in a mirror I'll know who the person staring back is going to be. DUH. What you don't seem to understand is that Tobi and Obito are not real people. They are capable of things you and I can only dream of. If Naruto transforms into Jiraiya and looks in the mirror, is he Jiraiya? 



TH4N4T0S said:


> relevant, because these:
> 
> create moons, resurrect people, teleport across  continents,  single-handedly wipe out entire villages, summon meteors,  cut mountain  tops, survive decapitation, seal Godzilla-esque beasts  into babies, communicate with their children after death, time travel, astral projection, cloning, and  temporal remote  viewing...



So it's relevant because of....a bunch of abilities that you keep bringing up for some reason? Sorry but you're not making very much sense.

What I think you're doing is wanting to use one of the above abilities to make assumptions that you think will help bolster your completely unfounded belief but you know that it's just an assumption and that I will totally call you on it so you're beating around the bush. Sorry buddy, but assumptions don't give relevancy to anything. Evidence gives relevancy to things.



TH4N4T0S said:


> again, are possible



But highly unlikely when you have no evidence to support it.


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## TH4N4T0S (Sep 3, 2012)

Ricky Sen said:


> Why are your posts so fucking good?? Poster of the year for life.
> 
> Can you win a pulitzer prize for Naruto discussion?


Oh. Thanks, but I believe I'm merely stating the obvious. And there are much better posters around here.


Mistshadow said:


> because he's almost as good as me and he has this special thing called LOGIC =p =p=p=p=p=p=p


"Almost"! Hah. 

Well, there's a reason HakuGaara apparently avoids arguing with you.


HakuGaara said:


> All I'm seeing is Obito's body. Nowhere in that scan does it say that Tobi is Obito.


That's why I said it _shows _Tobi to be Obito. 

Let's do this again:



Hint: Showing is not the same as proving.


> *Anything* is possible but


Tobi being Obito is impossible, according to you. You've contradicted yourself again.


> I can say it's 'possible' that Kishimoto will shade the next chapter in purples but that doesn't mean I'm going to 'assume' he'll do so when there is no evidence that he will do so.


Well, that's fine! Perfectly fine. I don't care about that, however, as I've made no such assumption. We're talking about possibilities, not what Kishimoto is going to do. 

Next.


> Showing Obito's body is not remotely the same thing as proving he's actually Obito.


Which was never the point. The evidential characteristic of chapter 599 is the point. Tobi looking like Obito is _evidence _that Tobi is Obito, which should eliminate your delusion that chapter 599 is irrelevant. 

 You understand?


> Agreed but it does make it highly unlikely


But you _concluded_ it was impossible. 



Apparently you've also concluded that you were wrong. A classic example of self-pwnage.


> In light of the evidence I provided earlier, you need more than just Obito's face.


To prove that Tobi is Obito, yes; to prove that it is not impossible for Tobi to be Obito, no.


> So now you're confusing reality with fantasy (who needs professional help?). Obviously, in real life, if I look in a mirror I'll know who the person staring back is going to be. DUH.


It's a valid illustration of direct evidence. You see someone with Obito's face in a manga panel. That's clear and convincing evidence that you're probably seeing Obito. 

You see your face when you look in the mirror. You're probably seeing yourself.


> So it's relevant because of....a bunch of abilities that you keep bringing up for some reason? Sorry but you're not making very much sense.
> 
> What I think you're doing is wanting to use one of the above abilities  to make assumptions that you think will help bolster your completely  unfounded belief


You're talking of an impossibility. When possibilities  enable it (i.e., the "bunch of abilities", among other possible  occurrences), it is not an impossibility. 

Mistshadow argues even further about the invalidity of your evidence. You should be thanking me for calling it circumstantial instead of invalid. 


> but you know that it's just an assumption and that I  will totally call you on it so you're beating around the bush.


I'm not assuming that they're possible. They _are _possible. 

Do you know what 'possible' and 'assumption' mean?


> Sorry buddy, but assumptions don't give relevancy to anything.


Assumptions that don't make sense don't give relevance to anything. One example is your assumption that whatever happened between Madara and Tobi is irrelevant.


> Evidence gives relevancy to things.


Such as the direct evidence that Tobi is Obito. 


> But highly unlikely when you have no evidence to support it.


The likelihood of the possibilities I mentioned was never brought up as a counterargument to your mistaken belief. The fact that you're discussing something irrelevant proves it is you who are beating around the bush.


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## son_michael (Sep 3, 2012)

HakuGaara the kind of evidence you want isn't evidence, its just flat out stating the obvious. You need to look at this from a writers point of view. How stupid would it be for the author to just pull our leg on who tobi is? Kishi has kept us in suspense for years and now has finally revealed what he was hinting to. He never gave us 100% evidence that the face was going to be obito's face. for all we knew it could have been ramen guys face, in fact we never saw MS when tobi used it so there was no need to even think he had MS. We tobito theorist didn't theorize it because we knew beyond a shadow of a doubt that we were right. We theorized because we were led by a trail of bread crumbs, assumptions, pieces of a fricken puzzle. 


You do not have 100% evidence that tobi is not in fact the real obito. You do not have any argument whatsoever against the possibility that he is the real obito and all common sense points to THIS being the big reveal. A flashback chapter on a character we haven't heard from in years, a direct face reveal and the chapter titled "uchiha obito" added to the fact that tobi has been nothing but personal with kakashi is SOLID evidence that tobi is obito. for you to say otherwise is ludicrous. 

That being said, kishi could go any way he desires. he could make the biggest mistake and make Izuna be in obito's body or make obito be a host for zetsu bla bla. I acknowledge that its not 100% confirmed but you need to acknowledge that the trail youv'e been following is simply 1 of many possibilities. For the longest time people have said it was IMPOSSIBLE for obito's face to be behind the mask since it was crushed by a rock. They made the mistake of not looking at it from a dramatic point of view, it was meant to sell the fact that he was dead, not to prove it. However the only way you could know that would be to look outside of the pages your reading.


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## HakuGaara (Sep 3, 2012)

TH4N4T0S said:


> Tobi being Obito is impossible, according to you. You've contradicted yourself



You're behind the times. I've conceded it's 'possible' and am now of the stance that it's 'highly unlikely'. Therefore, I'm not contradicting myself at all. Contradicting myself would involve me saying it's 'impossible' and 'possible' at the same time, which I'm *clearly* not doing. Please keep up.



TH4N4T0S said:


> Tobi looking like Obito is _evidence _that Tobi is Obito,



But not strong enough evidence in light of contradictory evidence, of which there is far too much of. Therefore, Tobito still remains highly unlikely.



TH4N4T0S said:


> It's a valid illustration of direct evidence.



If there was no contradictory evidence, I would wholeheartedly agree with you. The problem is that simply revealing Obito's face doesn't 'magically' get rid of all the indicators that he's not Obito. Add to that the fact that this is a manga where people disguising themselves as other people is the par de norm and a level-headed person is forced to conclude that Tobi is Obito in body only.


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## Nic (Sep 4, 2012)

Kakashi recognized who tobi was by his words before the mask came off.  If that's not confirmation that it's obito in soul than I don't know what it is.


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## Mistshadow (Sep 4, 2012)

if body jumping was possible at that point for madara and his 3rd party partner that you say exists, then madara would have never died....................because he would have also body jumped.


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## The Wired (Sep 4, 2012)

Lmao @ people glossing over the blatent  inconsistencies in the plot. Also, as someone who pretty much lived  in the  library and the telegrams during the months when the obito theorists first arose, I will tell you with certainty that their were at most ten of them in the beginning. The rest of you can fuck off.


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## Mistshadow (Sep 4, 2012)

The Wired said:


> Lmao @ people glossing over the blatent  inconsistencies in the plot. Also, as someone who pretty much lived  in the  library and the telegrams during the months when the obito theorists first arose, I will tell you with certainty that their were at most ten of them in the beginning. The rest of you can fuck off.



I believed it was possible, butnot the most likely until more information started arising.

anyways if you want to overlook the inconsistency that arises if the person in obito is a body snatcher and madara himself didn't use body snatching.

















































You are then Brilliant Dude


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## TH4N4T0S (Sep 4, 2012)

HakuGaara said:


> I've conceded it's 'possible'


Excellent. Concession accepted.


> and am now of the stance that it's 'highly unlikely'. Therefore, I'm not contradicting myself at all. Contradicting myself would involve me saying it's 'impossible' and 'possible' at the same time, which I'm *clearly* not doing.


Only in HakuGaara's phantasmagoric dimension. This is potentially the most flagrant exhibition of self-delusion I've seen in a while.

HakuGaara's claim #1: ""
HakuGaara's claim #2: ""

Admitting the possibility of interaction between Madara and Obito is admitting that your conclusion is incorrect, as it is predicated on the impossibility of the said interaction. And then you sit there and claim that your conclusion remains valid.

You said "My conclusion still stands," and in your  you said "Anything is possible." That, my friend, is a contradiction. Now you're attempting to bail yourself out by calling it a concession while you never articulated a concession until now. That's quite weak, man.


> But not strong enough evidence in light of contradictory evidence, of which there is far too much of. Therefore, Tobito still remains highly unlikely.


If that's what you believe. But I'm not here to argue about likelihood, or the literary elements Tobito theorists use to support it. The context of our discussion was 'possibility'. 

If you want to talk about anything other than possibility, then there is no reason for us to continue this already protracted discussion.


> If there was no contradictory evidence, I would wholeheartedly agree with you.


About the evidence? You should, because the presence of contradictory evidence does not remove the evidential characteristic of evidence. It has been explained to you many times why chapter 599 is relevant, direct evidence (while yours is merely "circumstantial").


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## HakuGaara (Sep 4, 2012)

TH4N4T0S said:


> HakuGaara's claim #1: ""
> HakuGaara's claim #2: ""



Obviously if my stance has changed, then so has my conclusion. Simply change it to "Tobi being Obito is highly unlikely". As much as you'd like to vehemently believe I'm contradicting myself, I'm not.



TH4N4T0S said:


> If that's what you believe. But I'm not here to argue about likelihood, or the literary elements Tobito theorists use to support it. The context of our discussion was 'possibility'.



Actually, that was the context of *your* discussion. The only reason you argued with me was to nitpick about an improperly used term. I thought I was debating about whether Tobi is Obito.


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## Mistshadow (Sep 4, 2012)

HakuGaara said:


> Actually, that was the context of *your* discussion. The only reason you argued with me is to nitpick about an improperly used term. I thought I was debating* about whether Tobi is Obito*.



No, I won that a while ago

coolcoolcool


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## Skywalker (Sep 4, 2012)

Let's wait another 24 hours, shall we?


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## TH4N4T0S (Sep 4, 2012)

HakuGaara said:


> Obviously if my stance has changed, then so has my conclusion. Simply change it to "Tobi being Obito is highly unlikely". As much as you'd like to vehemently believe I'm contradicting myself, I'm not.


You don't just suddenly "change" positions in a debate. You express it accordingly. No amount of denial can change the fact that you contradicted yourself. The following obliterates your pathetic attempts at deluding others.


TH4N4T0S said:


> HakuGaara's claim #1: ""
> HakuGaara's claim #2: ""
> 
> Admitting the possibility of interaction between Madara and Obito is  admitting that your conclusion is incorrect, as it is predicated on the  impossibility of the said interaction. And then you sit there and claim  that your conclusion remains valid.
> ...


I suggest, for your sake, that you stop lying to yourself.


> Actually, that was the context of *your* discussion. The only reason you argued with me is to nitpick about an improperly used term. I thought I was debating about whether Tobi is Obito.


Nonsense. You made a point: Tobi being Obito is impossible. I said it isn't. Obviously it was you who set the context -- the context of possibility.

And if I may just comment on the following:


HakuGaara said:


> Add to that the fact that this is a manga where people disguising themselves as other people is the par de norm


You have a point, a very weak one. Why? Because of the fact that Tobi had a mask -- a very durable one, at that. Now, why in Kishi's name would you disguise your face and then hide it under a battle-resistant, full-face mask? We can't establish a logical inference from this. The body/mind transfer theories are all better than this little point of yours.


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## Kakui Lee (Sep 4, 2012)

Someone are disappointed about naruto 599 and the revealing of the man behind the mask. It turns out that the mind-player, brainwasher, extremely enraged Tobi is actually a kid who can use fire jutsus and has a 2-tomoe Sharingan for like a day...oh and tons of rocks falling and crushing his body.
It's strange but admit it, if it wasn't obito, if it was any other person behind that mask you would still be disappointed that it didn't reach your expectations.

You shouldn't be mad about Tobi being Obito. You should be mad if Masashi Kishimoto doesn't find the best explanation in the world!

Don't give up on Naruto yet.


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## jacamo (Sep 4, 2012)

looks like thanatos still has that stick up his ass


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## Faustus (Sep 4, 2012)

Kakui Lee said:


> Don't give up on Naruto yet.



Easier said than done


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## NW (Sep 4, 2012)

*@HakuGaara:* If you'd wholeheartedly agree with us if there wasn't any "contradictory evidence" in the case of Tobi being Obito, then why is it that you ignore Mistshadow's rebuttals to your so called "contradictory evidence"?



jacamo said:


> looks like thanatos still has that stick up his ass


Guess jacamo can't handle big and fancy words.



Faustus said:


> Easier said than done


This is coming from someone who wanted him to be a clone. Hopefully, in the future, your theories will include common sense and you can differentiate between good and bad writing.

It's awfully pathetic how people bitch about how Tobi's not who they wanted him to be and how Kishi must be a bad writer because they didn't get their way. Do you people have ANY idea how immature and babyish you sound?


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## Mugivara (Sep 4, 2012)

OMG I wasn't here for some days and Jacamo gave a signal to accept Tobito possibility

Man... Tomorrow will be a disappointment for Obito supporters. They will realize that there is something behind all this incidents..


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## Zeno (Sep 4, 2012)

Mugivara said:


> OMG I wasn't here for some days and Jacamo gave a signal to accept Tobito possibility
> 
> Man... Tomorrow will be a disappointment for Obito supporters. They will realize that there is something behind all this incidents..



I think it's time to accept reality. It's not pretty when someone cannot accept that they were wrong.


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## NW (Sep 4, 2012)

Mugivara said:


> OMG I wasn't here for some days and Jacamo gave a signal to accept Tobito possibility
> 
> Man... Tomorrow will be a disappointment for Obito supporters. They will realize that there is something behind all this incidents..


Yeah, keep talking. If tomorrow's chapter is going to be a disappointment for anyone, it's you.


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## jacamo (Sep 4, 2012)

Mugivara said:


> OMG I wasn't here for some days and Jacamo gave a signal to accept Tobito possibility
> 
> Man... Tomorrow will be a disappointment for Obito supporters. They will realize that there is something behind all this incidents..



if Kishi wants it to happen we have no choice but to accept it


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## NW (Sep 4, 2012)

jacamo said:
			
		

> if Kishi wants it to happen we have no choice but to accept it


o__O

I think jacamo got hacked...

No way jacamo'd actually *accept* Tobi being Obito.


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## Scizor (Sep 4, 2012)

"If you can't beat them: join them."


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