# Boy, TWELVE, shot in the stomach by cops



## Deleted member 23 (Nov 23, 2014)

> A 12-year-old boy is fighting for his life after being shot by a police officer when he allegedly pulled a BB gun from his waistband outside a recreation center in Cleveland.
> 
> The unnamed youngster was spotted 'waving around' the airsoft gun in the playground area next to Cuddell Recreation Center at Detroit Avenue and West Boulevard at around 3.30pm on Saturday.
> 
> ...




Shot for carryin a fake gun and everyone knows its a fake gun, Murika land of the stupid


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## LyricalMessiah (Nov 23, 2014)

klad said:


> Shot for carryin a fake gun and everyone knows its a fake gun, Murika land of the stupid



Man... this is freaking gutting. No, that goes beyond whatever minor emotional pain you'd feel from certain sad stuff but man.

Fucking cop


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## Nardo6670 (Nov 23, 2014)

Just another reason why cops should be stripped of all of their guns. You do this, and people might actually live and not worry about being shot by corrupt trigger happy pigs.


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## Zyrax (Nov 23, 2014)




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## Karsh (Nov 23, 2014)

USA is like an experiment, can't wait to see how it unfolds


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## SLB (Nov 23, 2014)

ok, the kid was waiving a gun at people, and seems to have ignored direct police orders. the gun turned out to be fake, but they're not trained to assume the 911 caller's gut feeling is the right one. they act on potential threats.

also not sure how one of the cops sustained the leg injury.


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## Stunna (Nov 23, 2014)

wait, what?


> Union officials claimed the officers - one of whom was later taken to hospital with an ankle injury


the hell?


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## Mael (Nov 23, 2014)

Karsh said:


> USA is like an experiment, can't wait to see how it unfolds



It really isn't.  Many police forces simply need better training.

Though interesting when the United States military is given stricter rules of engagement than our own police.  Maybe that's why the military can at least show some discipline.

I also hate to say it, but if we've got a 14/15-year-old bringing a gun to school to shoot people, it sucks that this has become an issue where people can't trust preteens to actually just be playing.


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## Mr. Black Leg (Nov 23, 2014)

So anyone wanting to talk about demilitarisation of the police yet ?

If I was the guy who called 911 I'd kill myself .


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## Stunna (Nov 23, 2014)

Mr. Black Leg said:


> If I was the guy who called 911 I'd kill myself.


Just a _bit_ melodramatic.


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## Black Superman (Nov 23, 2014)

Black children aren't allowed to make these kind of  mistakes unlike white and asian kids.


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## Mael (Nov 23, 2014)

ZeroTheDestroyer said:


> Black children aren't allowed to make these kind of  mistakes like white and asian kids.



Right because black kids are the ones leered at for being high-profile shooters?

So far the track record has been white, Asian, and Native American, and not due to some "toxic masculinity" bullshit but serious societal problems in approaching mental illness and social isolation.


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## brolmes (Nov 23, 2014)

shooting 12 year olds in the stomach should be illegal

we need more laws and more cops to enforce those laws

why am i the only person who sees this


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## Mr. Black Leg (Nov 23, 2014)

Stunna said:


> Just a _bit_ melodramatic.



Dude, he called 911 knowing that a *KID* had a *FAKE *gun and was scaring the shit out of people .

Instead he could, you know, school the child and say " Stop with this kid, if you don't, I'll tell your parents " .

I've seen kids not behaving properly and adults - not related to them - reprehending the child because they were doing shit .

Instead, he fucking called the cops, over a kid with a fake gun . I can't imagine if he saw an adult man with hands in the pocket, he would freak the fuck out .


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## Black Superman (Nov 23, 2014)

Mael said:


> Right because black kids are the ones leered at for being high-profile shooters?
> 
> So far the track record has been white, Asian, and Native American, and not due to some "toxic masculinity" bullshit but serious societal problems in approaching mental illness and social isolation.



No, but they are the ones being gunned down for not having guns or/having fake guns. I just feel like authorities would make the effort to atleast ascertain when it comes to them. Our kids don't even get that much. They just get gunned down indiscriminately, no questions asked. This wouldn't be a story if police weren't so knee jerk in their reactions. So what if a black kid has a gun? Last time I checked, carrying a bb gun wasn't a crime.


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## brolmes (Nov 23, 2014)

in fact bb guns should also be illegal

then dumb kids like this wouldn't need to get shot by accident for pulling them out

they could get shot on purpose


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## Mael (Nov 23, 2014)

ZeroTheDestroyer said:


> No, but they are the ones being gunned down for not having guns or/having fake guns. I just feel like authorities would make the effort to atleast ascertain when it comes to them. Our kids don't even get that much. They just get gunned down indiscriminately, no questions asked. This wouldn't be a story if police weren't so knee jerk in their reactions. So what if a black kid has a gun? Last time I checked, carrying a bb gun wasn't a crime.



So you got a specific case of a preteen or preteens in the situation you just described?  Michael Brown doesn't count as he was 18 IIRC and thus an adult.

Carrying a BB gun isn't a crime but only an idiot asking for trouble is going to wave it around especially if it looks like THE REAL THING.


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## Hunted by sister (Nov 23, 2014)

I don't even have to say anything...

One thing. What the fuck happened to tasering people? 

//HbS


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## brolmes (Nov 23, 2014)

then why did you

/hbs


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## Black Superman (Nov 23, 2014)

Mael said:


> So you got a specific case of a preteen or preteens in the situation you just described?  Michael Brown doesn't count as he was 18 IIRC and thus an adult.
> 
> Carrying a BB gun isn't a crime but only an idiot asking for trouble is going to wave it around especially if it looks like THE REAL THING.



This is like the 4th or 5th incidence of something like this happening this year. Not too long ago, a guy got killed at the very same walmart he bought his bb gun from. Maybe you should better educate yourself by researching because there's no burden of proof I have to prove. It's happening, it's been happening. I wasn't referencing Michael Brown in particular or at all really. There's plenty of cases other than Brown that you could point to. Again he's a *12 year old*, I don't expect a 12 year old to carry himself like he's 21 but you and many others hold them to that standard and if some trigger happy shoot him, it's his fault for ________. See what I'm talking about? Not allowed to make mistakes like a dumb kid should. 

I'm tired of the excuses people make. The fact is, there wasn't a real gun, and this wasn't a real threat. The police officer overstepped his bounds by playing executioner in this instance.

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VcARVYUPB2s[/YOUTUBE]


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## Mael (Nov 23, 2014)

I was talking about your claim on black preteens as compared to Asian or white preteens.

I'm not excusing the rookie cop, not at all.  I'm just saying that kid should've also been educated what NOT to do to arouse suspicion.  It's the critical time to learn.


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## MYJC (Nov 23, 2014)

If you look at similar cases and what happened afterwards, you'll see that the main reason this type of thing keeps happening is that the cops rarely-to-never suffer any serious consequences for their actions, and they know it. Thus they have no incentive to avoid unnecessary violence. 

In this case, the cop is very unlikely to be fired and will almost certainly will not be charged with anything. At most he'll get a paid suspension (ie. paid vacation) and release some BS apology. IMO if cops knew that there would be actually consequences for unnecessary use of force, we'd see a lot fewer cases of this type of thing.


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## Mael (Nov 23, 2014)

That's a very good point.  People think the military gets people off scott free oh no police forces are far worse.


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## babaGAReeb (Nov 23, 2014)

they should have put a watermelon in front of the kid instead of shooting it, due to being black it would instinctively drop its gun and run to eat the watermelon


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## Deleted member 23 (Nov 23, 2014)

babaGAReeb said:


> they should have put a watermelon in front of the kid instead of shooting it, due to being black it would instinctively drop its gun and run to eat the watermelon



Nah if he's black then he'd point to gun to anyone trying to get the watermelon before him not drop it.


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## SwordKing (Nov 23, 2014)

First of all, I didn't see anything in the article about the boy's skin color. That's irrelevant anyway.

Second of all...

- The 911 caller said the gun was PROBABLY fake.

- The police told the kid to put up his hands. Instead he choose to pull out a realistic gun replica with the orange safety tip removed.

This stupid kid is lucky he didn't killed. I might also blame whoever got him a real looking toy gun and/or helped him remove the orange safety tip.

The cop probably could have shouted "Drop the weapon!" first, but other than that he was only doing his job and is mostly blameless.


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## Stunna (Nov 23, 2014)

Mr. Black Leg said:


> When you "fuck up", you cheat your wife and get caught, you forget your homework and gets a zero .
> 
> This is beyond fucking up, his "fuck up" might cost a life.


You're right; it's beyond fucked up...but killing yourself would fix absolutely nothing.


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## MYJC (Nov 23, 2014)

Update: Looks like the boy has died....


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## Mr. Black Leg (Nov 23, 2014)

Stunna said:


> You're right; it's beyond fucked up...but killing yourself would fix absolutely nothing.



Would erase the guilty of, as it seems in the news, be a major part of a death of a 12 year old .


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## Stunna (Nov 23, 2014)

Mr. Black Leg said:


> Would erase the guilty of, as it seems in the news, be a major part of a death of a 12 year old .


It wouldn't erase him as having been a part of the child's death. If the events really haunted him to such extremes, then instead of succumbing to feelings of guilt, he could channel those feelings to some cause or something.


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## Deputy Myself (Nov 23, 2014)

>Not banning fake guns


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## IchLiebe (Nov 23, 2014)

Quit yer fucking crying.


*Might* be fake. *Might* be fake, *might* be fake. *Might *be fake.


This cop was justified in every way possible. Everyone knows that some bb guns look real, hell I got one made out of metal and everything and looks real. 

The cop told him to raise his hand, but his first instinct is to pull out a gun. A gun of some sort, maybe not a firearm(the police didn't have time to inspect especially when time is of the essence and their lives may be in danger).

Maybe parents should teach their kids to listen to the polices' orders.


What if by chance the gun wasn't fake...then what?


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## Ceria (Nov 23, 2014)

I agree with you Ichliebe 

That kid shouldn't have been waving the gun around, it's sad but it is what it is. I can't blame the cops for shooting him because of the what-if situation, what if it was real and what if he had shot people.


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## Kira Yamato (Nov 23, 2014)

> The rookie then asked the boy to put his hands up, at which point the youngster reached into his waistband and pulled out the pistol, Police Patrolmen's Association President Jeffrey Follmer said.
> 'Its probably a fake gun' 911 call released by the Police...
> 
> Despite the 911 caller's prior warning that the gun was likely fake, the officer then fired two shots at the boy, at least one of which hit him in the stomach, according to Cleveland.com.



Why did the boy reach for his weapon rather than putting his hands up, like the police officer requested? I'm not in the business of getting shot so I wouldn't be reaching for my wallet let alone a fake gun if I'm ordered to put my hands up.


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## SLB (Nov 23, 2014)

well, kira,  12 is a delicate age, i won't pretend it isn't 

but being taught to obey law enforcement shouls be part of life. probably fuck-up parents


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## baconbits (Nov 23, 2014)

The cop is not going to get in trouble for this.  He has a suspect scaring people with what appears to be a gun.  The suspect is given a clear warning and still draws his weapon.  Cops have to shoot at that point and no police chief in America would give orders not to shoot when an apparent weapon is drawn on you with what you could interpret to be lethal intent.

Also, people do too much crying about these issues.  Sometimes the cops screw up but thousands of kids get killed by gangbangers shooting randomly in our neighborhoods.  That deserves more outrage than someone so stupid they drew a weapon on a cop.


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## Kafuka de Vil (Nov 23, 2014)

ZeroTheDestroyer said:


> See what I'm talking about? Not allowed to make mistakes like a dumb kid should.



I'm puzzled. Brandishing a gun menacingly in public - whether fake or not - isn't a simple childish mistake. If anything it's synonymous of bad/neglectful parenting or the kids a budding sociopath in the making. This isn't some harmless incident or innocent life learning experience.

So you're tired of excuses? Tough shit. Well that's probably because not everyone has a boner for confirmation like you regarding these subjects.



ZeroTheDestroyer said:


> This is like the 4th or 5th incidence of something like this happening this year.



Black kid acting menacingly with a gun killed by white cop and everyone loses their mind. 

Unarmed white kid shot and killed by black cop in Salt Lake City and you and nobody else bats an eye.



IchLiebe said:


> Maybe parents should teach their kids to listen to the polices' orders.



Or maybe parents should teach their kids guns aren't glamorous or to be regarded as some sign of cultural heritage and distinction.


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## MartyMcFly1 (Nov 23, 2014)

baconbits said:


> The cop is not going to get in trouble for this.  He has a suspect scaring people with what appears to be a gun.  The suspect is given a clear warning and still draws his weapon.  Cops have to shoot at that point and no police chief in America would give orders not to shoot when an apparent weapon is drawn on you with what you could interpret to be lethal intent.
> 
> Also, people do too much crying about these issues.  Sometimes the cops screw up but thousands of kids get killed by gangbangers shooting randomly in our neighborhoods.  That deserves more outrage than someone so stupid they drew a weapon on a cop.



I don't necessarily disagree with you...but why do those gangbangers exist in such large numbers in the first place? Where exactly are all these unruly young men coming from? They aren't being dropped from the sky.


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## MYJC (Nov 23, 2014)

Funny how this drunk old guy standing around with a REAL gun scaring people can be negotiated with, but some dumb 12-year-old with a BB gun has to be shot on site and nobody is at all sympathetic. But may I'm just crazy to see something wrong with this.


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## MartyMcFly1 (Nov 23, 2014)

MYJC said:


> Funny how this drunk old guy standing around with a REAL gun scaring people can be negotiated with, but some dumb 12-year-old with a BB gun has to be shot on site and nobody is at all sympathetic. But may I'm just crazy to see something wrong with this.


White mass shooters tend to be apprehended alive.


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## Sasuke_Bateman (Nov 23, 2014)

The police did nothing wrong.

On a side note, now that It's ok to shoot stupid children...I think it's ok to have sex with stupid children as well. I mean, why not?


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## olaf (Nov 23, 2014)

kinda sad

but since the kid had a bb gun with orange tip removed and didn't listen to the cop I'm not surprised that this happened.


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## Suit (Nov 23, 2014)

Moody said:


> ok, the kid was waiving a gun at people, and seems to have ignored direct police orders. the gun turned out to be fake, but they're not trained to assume the 911 caller's gut feeling is the right one. they act on potential threats.



Haven't read past this post yet, but I'm going to assume there are users attacking you for this statement as though the kid was a cancer patient begging passersby for a dollar. And they're completely wrong, because any twelve year-old kid should damn well know not to wave a fucking gun around when police tell him not to.

That said, aiming at his stomach? I do think there are less lethal spots to aim for, but okay. Not sure whether to give benefit of the doubt or not.


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## reiatsuflow (Nov 23, 2014)

Shit looks real.

Some posters are this close to being dismayed that you can't point your glock replica at an officer and shout _Die friend!_ without getting shot at. This close.

 How do they verify it's not a real gun while remaining safe? How is this supposed to work? What are the procedures supposed to be? Why is this not supposed to happen?


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## Mr. Black Leg (Nov 23, 2014)

reiatsuflow said:


> Shit looks real.
> 
> Some posters are this close to being dismayed that you can't point your glock replica at an officer and shout _Die friend!_ without getting shot at. This close.
> 
> How do they verify it's not a real gun while remaining safe? How is this supposed to work? What are the procedures supposed to be? Why is this not supposed to happen?



Teasers is all I say .


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## reiatsuflow (Nov 23, 2014)

> Teasers is all I say .



But teasing would have just made the boy more uncooperative. Nobody likes to be made fun of.


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## Kafuka de Vil (Nov 23, 2014)

Mr. Black Leg said:


> Teasers is all I say .



Tasers can kill too. It's no safe guarantee.



reiatsuflow said:


> But teasing would have just made the boy more uncooperative. Nobody likes to be made fun of.



Haha, oh my.  I think he meant _Tasers_. Probably got lost somewhere in translation.


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## MYJC (Nov 23, 2014)

reiatsuflow said:


> Shit looks real.
> 
> Some posters are this close to being dismayed that you can't point your glock replica at an officer and shout _Die friend!_ without getting shot at. This close.




And when exactly did this happen? There's no indication whatsoever that the boy said anything like that or threatened to shoot the officer (or anybody). 

It's crazy how people don't think of black kids, as, well, kids. 


Kinda weird how  can point his gun (an actual gun) at people on the highway yet they're able to use a stun gun and take him into custody. But I guess a 12-year old was too much of a threat and they had no choice but to use lethal force. 

I'm not saying it was acceptable for the kid to do this but it's also not acceptable for cops' first reaction to anything to just be "start shooting". Especially with a child involved.


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## Mider T (Nov 23, 2014)

I can't tell if this has been happening a lot more in recent years or the media is just harping on it now, but it seems like this is now a weekly occurance.


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## Hunted by sister (Nov 23, 2014)

Kira Yamato said:


> Why did the boy reach for his weapon rather than putting his hands up, like the police officer requested? I'm not in the business of getting shot so I wouldn't be reaching for my wallet let alone a fake gun if I'm ordered to put my hands up.


Because he was a kid, and kids are fucking stupid. Doesn't justify what the cop did.


reiatsuflow said:


> Shit looks real.


Plastic from a mile away. Even then, why not taser the stupid kid? Yeah, better kill him over a toy

//HbS


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## Suit (Nov 23, 2014)

reiatsuflow said:


> Shit looks real.
> 
> Some posters are this close to being dismayed that you can't point your glock replica at an officer and shout _Die friend!_ without getting shot at. This close.
> 
> How do they verify it's not a real gun while remaining safe? How is this supposed to work? What are the procedures supposed to be? Why is this not supposed to happen?



Just going to say it.

Some fucktards assume that cops have full fucking knowledge of what they're up against. That gun looks plenty real, and there is no fault in assuming that it is a real gun. Especially at a distance.


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## Mider T (Nov 23, 2014)

Hunted by sister said:


> Because he was a kid, and kids are fucking stupid. Doesn't justify what the cop did.
> 
> Plastic from a mile away. Even then, why not taser the stupid kid? Yeah, better kill him over a toy
> 
> //HbS



He has a point though,  he's 12 not 6 he should have known better.


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## Saishin (Nov 23, 2014)

IchLiebe said:


> Quit yer fucking crying.
> 
> 
> *Might* be fake. *Might* be fake, *might* be fake. *Might *be fake.
> ...





Ceria said:


> I agree with you Ichliebe
> 
> That kid shouldn't have been waving the gun around, it's sad but it is what it is. I can't blame the cops for shooting him because of the what-if situation, what if it was real and what if he had shot people.



That kid had just 12 years old at that age kids do not fully realize their actions,regardless on how the parents teach how to bahave to their children,pretend that kids of that young age must behave and act like adults is silly but that's America where every citizen can be shot down for nothing,oh well if you're ok with that be my guest.


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## brolmes (Nov 23, 2014)

i would laugh so fucking hard if hbs tried to taser someone some day and it didn't work and he got raped in the mouth until he drowned in jizz flavored blood

//HbS


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## Mael (Nov 23, 2014)

Hunted by sister said:


> Because he was a kid, and kids are fucking stupid. Doesn't justify what the cop did.
> 
> Plastic from a mile away. Even then, why not taser the stupid kid? Yeah, better kill him over a toy
> 
> //HbS



Is spouting unrealistic ideals/ideas part of your MO?

Plastic from a mile away?  That's because you were given a good time to analyze it.  They weren't and with kids shooting kids nowadays you can't always take chances.

But again, typical liberal lack of realism.


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## SwordKing (Nov 23, 2014)

Again, what's with everyone assuming the kid was African American? The article makes no indication what his ethnicity was.


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## Fujita (Nov 23, 2014)

SwordKing said:


> Again, what's with everyone assuming the kid was African American? The article makes no indication what his ethnicity was.



He was African American





> The attorney for the family of the Cleveland youngster, who also was black, downplayed any possible racial connotations to the shooting.


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## Mael (Nov 23, 2014)

> "This is not a black and white issue. This is a right and wrong issue," attorney Tim Kucharski said.



This is well said even if I think the kid didn't do himself any favors.


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## IchLiebe (Nov 23, 2014)

Saishin said:


> That kid had just 12 years old at that age kids do not fully realize their actions,regardless on how the parents teach how to bahave to their children,pretend that kids of that young age must behave and act like adults is silly but that's America where every citizen can be shot down for nothing,oh well if you're ok with that be my guest.



It ain't about teaching the kid how to behave, its about teaching the kid authority and how to respond to authority. 

The kid reached for the gun, irregardless of what anyone says it doesn't take an adult nor a genius to understand what the officers' orders were. They didn't say where's the gun, they told him to raise his hands away from his body, of which he didn't do and chose to draw the gun, which in the officers' eyes can be seen as an immediate threat on their life.


For nothing....he drew a gun(not a firearm but a gun that looked identical to a firearm, I have one made of metal and the only plastic on it is the handle and its frame is metal) when the officers' told him to put his hands up and away from his body of which he did the exact opposite.

Maybe the parents should taught their kid how to listen an cooperate instead of immediately resorting to threatening someone.


12 years old is young, but not idiocy young. 

When I was 12 I knew right from wrong. I knew not to be waving a bbgun around frantically and that police will see it as a threat, good thing my parents aren't imbeciles and they retroactively taught their kids how fucked up the world is and that people can take actions the wrong way and result in injury to themselves or ones self.

Just because this kid had terrible parents doesn't mean that he is free from criticism and judgement based on the actions that he chose to take instead of the ones he was told(by 2 authoritative figures in uniform) to take.


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## Hunted by sister (Nov 23, 2014)

brolmes said:


> i would laugh so fucking hard if hbs tried to taser someone some day and it didn't work and he got raped in the mouth until he drowned in jizz flavored blood
> 
> //HbS


How often does tasering someone not work? When you miss (oh god you can also miss with a gun!) or your target is a big fat guy. A small kid wouldn't stand a chance. He'd immediatly drop and pee/shit/both himself.


Mael said:


> Is spouting unrealistic ideals/ideas part of your MO?
> 
> Plastic from a mile away?  That's because you were given a good time to analyze it.  They weren't and with kids shooting kids nowadays you can't always take chances.
> 
> But again, typical liberal lack of realism.


Well sorry I have good eyes. Police should too. I recognized this as plastic immediatly, didn't even read what it was.

What about the taser part? That's wrong too? I'd love to see you defend your triggerhappy police when they shoot your kid.


IchLiebe said:


> 12 years old is young, but not idiocy young.


Appereantly that's not true. What do you think that kid was thinking would happen? That he'd shoot them to death? 

//HbS


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## Mael (Nov 23, 2014)

Depends what my kid did.  If my kid was holding hostages and was in the action of executing one I'd actually understand the police popping his/her ass.

And what if they tried tasering and the kid had a real gun?  You can't take those sorts of chances but again, I don't expect a silly lib like you to get that.


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## Seto Kaiba (Nov 23, 2014)

Can't say the kid took the best course of action here...


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## J★J♥ (Nov 23, 2014)

Shot a child with a toy, one of them managed to injure himself in process  

wtf is this ? This cant be real right ?


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## Hunted by sister (Nov 23, 2014)

Mael said:


> Depends what my kid did.  If my kid was holding hostages and was in the action of executing one I'd actually understand the police popping his/her ass.
> 
> And what if they tried tasering and the kid had a real gun?  You can't take those sorts of chances but again, I don't expect a silly lib like you to get that.


>kid playing with a toy gun
>"holding hostages and was in the action of executing one" 

What in the actual fuck, Mael? That answer is beyond retarded. 

Do you people even know how a taser works? If you hit properly, you're fine, unless the guy has huge body mass. You can't willpower yourself through a taser. If you miss, well,  in that situation a gun wouldn't save you either.

//HbS


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## Wesley (Nov 23, 2014)

In a few years, it would have been a real gun, and one of the cops would be dead.


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## MYJC (Nov 23, 2014)

Why are people acting if this was an adult? 

Of course what he did was dumb, but we're talking about a _kid_. Being as such, his first instinct was probably to hold up the gun to show the cops that it's wasn't real. *Obviously* that's a poor course of action, nobody is arguing otherwise. But kids mature at different rates, and 12-year-olds who have never encountered police before are not necessarily going to exercise good judgment. 

The issue is whether it was _really_ necessary for the cop to pull out his gun and shoot him in the stomach. Especially since the kid hadn't actually hurt anyone nor threatened to.




Wesley said:


> In a few years, it would have been a real gun, and one of the cops would be dead.




Of course, obviously the kid was a thug and deserved what was coming to him. If he didn't want to get shot he should've pulled his pants up and got a job. And why do people care about this anyway when there's violence in Chicago?


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## Kafuka de Vil (Nov 23, 2014)

Hunted by sister said:


> Well sorry I have good eyes. Police should too. I recognized this as plastic immediatly, didn't even read what it was.



>Jeez guys, if I'd had only a second or two to react under pressure then I'd have been totally able to tell it was a fake every time. These cops are noobs.



> Appereantly that's not true. What do you think that kid was thinking would happen? That he'd shoot them to death?



If he didn't think that then he was too dumb to live.



MYJC said:


> Why are people acting if this was an adult?
> 
> Of course what he did was dumb, but we're talking about a _kid_. *Being as such, his first instinct was probably to hold up the gun to show the cops that it's wasn't real*. *Obviously* that's a poor course of action, nobody is arguing otherwise. But kids mature at different rates, and 12-year-olds who have never encountered police before are not necessarily going to exercise good judgment.
> 
> The issue is whether it was _really_ necessary for the cop to pull out his gun and shoot him in the stomach. Especially since the kid hadn't actually hurt anyone nor threatened to.



You can't be certain of that. Just like they couldn't bee certain it could have been a real gun. It might not have, And it's that uncertainty which resulted in him being shot.

//MbS


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## EJ (Nov 23, 2014)

This is tricky. I wish we could see this stuff go down to see what could of been done.


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## Mael (Nov 23, 2014)

Hunted by sister said:


> >kid playing with a toy gun
> >"holding hostages and was in the action of executing one"
> 
> What in the actual fuck, Mael? That answer is beyond retarded.
> ...



And if the gun was real and the taser missed or was ineffective?

But no you're spewing typical silliness.


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## MYJC (Nov 23, 2014)

MbS said:


> >Jeez guys, if I'd had only a second or two to react under pressure then I'd have been totally able to tell it was a fake every time. These cops are noobs.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




So being unsure makes it ok to shoot and kill a 12-year-old who had thus far not harmed anyone or threatened to do so? 

It's kind of unsettling to me how you guys automatically see this as some thug who was out to kill people rather than some clueless kid who didn't know how to deal with cops and probably got scared.


----------



## Wesley (Nov 23, 2014)

MYJC said:


> Of course, obviously the kid was a thug and deserved what was coming to him.



He clearly didn't respect or fear the police, and likely adults in general.  If you have to blame someone else, blame his mother (because his father probably isn't around).


----------



## Mael (Nov 23, 2014)

Nobody is celebrating the fact this kid got popped.

But thinking to just tase the kid and immediately expecting the cops to recognize it as a BB gun is also demanding.


----------



## Sablés (Nov 23, 2014)

Mael said:


> Nobody is celebrating the fact this kid got popped.
> 
> But thinking to just tase the kid and immediately expecting the cops to recognize it as a BB gun is also demanding.



Wasn't it already reported the gun was likely fake?

Whether or not the testimony was legitimate, the officers should have had the sense to withhold immediate retaliation.


----------



## Lord Yu (Nov 23, 2014)

Kid's parents were dumb as fuck to let the kid do this. I don't blame the cops one bit. He was a Darwin Award case.


----------



## Mael (Nov 23, 2014)

Liquid said:


> Wasn't it already reported the gun was likely fake?
> 
> Whether or not the testimony was legitimate, the officers should have had the sense to withhold immediate retaliation.



The problem was the language given in the call didn't give a definite confirmation that the gun was fake...only the possibility.


----------



## Blu-ray (Nov 23, 2014)

> Response: Two Cleveland Police officers arrived at the scene following the 911 call. After the boy refused to put his hands up and reached for the gun (pictured from another perspective), one officer fired at him twice



As much as a I'd love to chew the cops out, I can't say it was entirely unjustified. They told him to put his hands up, he did not, and he reached for a gun they could not be sure was real or fake. It's not exactly uncommon for kids that age to have guns or shoot people, and the cops aren't psychic. Couldn't have known it was fake, and can't take the chance with lives including their own on the line.

Everyone knows that if a cop tells you hands up, you don't do it and reach for a gun, you are going to fucking die.

Kid did a dumb thing and it was tragic, but it's not like they shot him when he had his hands up. Can't pin all the blame on the cops this time, unless there's more to this that wasn't covered. Hope he pulls through at least.

How did the cop injure his ankle in all of this?


----------



## Kafuka de Vil (Nov 23, 2014)

MYJC said:


> So being unsure makes it ok to shoot and kill a 12-year-old who had thus far not harmed anyone or threatened to do so?
> 
> It's kind of unsettling to me how you guys automatically see this as some thug who was out to kill people rather than some clueless kid who didn't know how to deal with cops and probably got scared.



Yes.

I'm not seeing the kid as some thug. A second of uncertainty can and will get you killed. You don't have the time to waste on that kind of thing. In this kind of situation it's killed or be killed.



Liquid said:


> Whether or not the testimony was legitimate, the officers should have had the sense to withhold immediate retaliation.



Would you be willing to chance a bullet to the face or bystander? No, you wouldn't. It's easy to criticise other for not putting their lives at risk solely on a whim.


----------



## MYJC (Nov 23, 2014)

VolatileSoul said:


> Kid did a dumb thing and it was tragic, but it's not like they shot him when he had his hands up. Can't pin all the blame on the cops this time, unless there's more to this that wasn't covered. Hope he pulls through at least.




I posted the article in this thread, but the kid is confirmed to have died this morning.


----------



## Gunners (Nov 23, 2014)

Can't really fault the police officers. An unfortunate situation that could have been avoided by the parents teaching their child and buying him an appropriate toy.


----------



## Mael (Nov 23, 2014)

He also removed the orange tip...the one fucking thing that would've made it painfully obvious it was just a BB gun.

Now why would you do that?


----------



## MYJC (Nov 23, 2014)

Mael said:


> The problem was the language given in the call didn't give a definite confirmation that the gun was fake...only the possibility.




So basically the kid hadn't hurt anybody (or threatened to do so) and bystanders were able to tell that the gun was likely fake, yet cops (in all their wisdom and knowledge) were unable to come to this conclusion and had NO OTHER CHOICE but to use lethal force right after they arrived on the scene. I find that hard to buy. 

I could understand if a bullet had been fired or something but there were pretty clearly other options available (or should have been). Stun guns, tasers, hell, even reasoning with the kid before deciding right away to start shooting.



Mael said:


> He also removed the orange tip...the one fucking thing that would've made it painfully obvious it was just a BB gun.
> 
> Now why would you do that?




What part of "12-year-old kid" is so hard to get? He obviously wasn't thinking like an adult, if he was he wouldn't have reacted in the way he did.


----------



## Gunners (Nov 23, 2014)

When I was younger, I asked my mum for a BB gun. She told me "No, the last thing your black ass needs is for someone to see you walking around with something that looks like a gun." The words of someone who loves their son. 

I don't mean to sound like a prick, but it is like parents miss the part where they're responsible for keeping their children safe from the dangers of the world. In this climate, it is simply stupid to wonder around with an object, that resembles a gun, in public. 

It's sad that the youth died, but I cannot blame the police. They have to rely on their own judgement, not the beliefs of others. In their situation, I would have probably pulled the trigger.


----------



## Wesley (Nov 23, 2014)

VolatileSoul said:


> How did the cop injure his ankle in all of this?



He kicked the kid for good measure.


----------



## reiatsuflow (Nov 23, 2014)

But even if it was a six year old, what's the procedure supposed to be? Even if he was a precious white six year old with shining wheat blond hair wearing a shirt with the american flag and coming back from his piano recitals, what are police supposed to do? Granting the kid any amount of cultural favoritism, you're going to have some police who are going to do everything in their power, including jeopardizing their own safety, to get the gun away from a kid and not harm him. But that's not necessarily the procedure. That's just a great cop. The expectation isn't to have millions of great cops walking around doing great cop things. There have been links in this thread to stories where people with actual real loaded guns were talked down, as if that's evidencing what procedure should be. Is that a realistic average?

One of those bored youtubers should go out and buy a realistic toy and deliberately puts himself in this situation just to see what happens. Like those videos where people go walking around "ghettos" asking stupid questions and trying to get a beatdown caught on camera. Consider it a social experiment. You just posted a 30 minute video of yourself breaking down incongruities in the rate of clothing decay on last week's Walking Dead episode. You have nothing better to do. It's time to become famous for all the wrong reasons.


----------



## Mintaka (Nov 23, 2014)

A removable orange tip?  How hard is it to make it so that the orange part of the gun is not removable in any realistic way?


----------



## Nighty the Mighty (Nov 23, 2014)

@the kids age

cbf to go search for exactly what the age is in Ohio but children are assumed to be legally capable of criminal intent (or that they know right and wrong) at around 14 in most places I know, logically it follows that from the same age you should be aware that carrying a realistic replica gun and pointing it at people is wrong.

Before that age it requires outside evidence and the prosecution to prove that the child knows the difference between right and wrong.


----------



## Stunna (Nov 23, 2014)

Gunners said:


> When I was younger, I asked my mum for a BB gun. She told me "No, the last thing your black ass needs is for someone to see you walking around with something that looks like a gun." The words of someone who loves their son.
> 
> I don't mean to sound like a prick, but it is like parents miss the part where they're responsible for keeping their children safe from the dangers of the world. In this climate, it is simply stupid to wonder around with an object, that resembles a gun, in public.
> 
> It's sad that the youth died, but I cannot blame the police. They have to rely on their own judgement, not the beliefs of others. In their situation, I would have probably pulled the trigger.


*ding ding ding*


----------



## ChatraOrChakra (Nov 23, 2014)

is he black?. why do i even ask. this has nothing to do with training. if cops shoot everyone just because they think they have a gun. a lot of people would die every day. you can tell if its a fake gun from a mile away. if he was white. I bet a call would be even made. disgusting. just because the law is for equality doesn't mean thats how people feel. most of the U.S population is still racist. and thats a fact. yeah. lets have the police shoot every kid with a bb gun. lets do it. if you think its the kid's fault. let see how that works for the rest of the kids with bb guns. you can't kill people JUST BECAUSE you think. its not a video game ass hole.


----------



## Jagger (Nov 23, 2014)

Okay, while I'm not exactly on the cops' side and I believe it was a bit exaggerated, the kid did make a mistake by drawing out his gun and not following the cop's orders. I mean, most of kids around his age would get scared at the sight of cops pointing at him and doing whatever they say.

Regardless of everything, it's a sad event and it goes without saying that the training given to local authorities seems to be more loose than the strict one given to the militia. It's likely because the idea of being "_The Law"_ attracts many bullies with a tendency of applying too much brute strength.

Also, whoever said the person that called 911 should kill himself is going a bit too far. It's not going to fix anything at all and, apparently, he wasn't completely whether it was a fake gun or not.


----------



## Jagger (Nov 23, 2014)

Also, how did the cop recieved an ankle injury?

Unless he tried to make a movie-like stunt, it makes no sense.


----------



## IchLiebe (Nov 23, 2014)

Mintaka said:


> A removable orange tip?  How hard is it to make it so that the orange part of the gun is not removable in any realistic way?



I don't know of any manufacturer that makes a removable tip. But that doesn't mean that people or individuals can't remove that piece by themselves and want to in certain circumstances. I've always had to saw the piece off or break it off.

This could show that the kid had intent to threaten and intimidate individuals in a dangerous fashion, and now we see how dangerous it could become.



			
				Nightbringer said:
			
		

> @the kids age
> 
> cbf to go search for exactly what the age is in Ohio but children are assumed to be legally capable of criminal intent (or that they know right and wrong) at around 14 in most places I know, logically it follows that from the same age you should be aware that carrying a realistic replica gun and pointing it at people is wrong.
> 
> Before that age it requires outside evidence and the prosecution to prove that the child knows the difference between right and wrong.


 While I understand what you are saying you don't exactly understand the entire situation.

A cop doesn't inherently know someones age, this could've been a big kid(hell my brother was twice the size of kids 3 years older than him), so they didn't know how old he was.

Then you have a call that someone is waving a gun around that might possibly be fake but not confirmed. Then you have an individual that isn't an infant the became uncooperative and made a threatening gesture towards the officers present. 

If the officers asked "Hey wheres your gun" and the kid being a kid would be like "Oh right here..." pow pow. THen yea I would have a huge problem with it as they asked where it was and kid could take that to mean 'present the weapon to me. But no they told him to keep his hands up and away from the body, which most officers announce to an individual or a group of people that might be carrying a fire arm, and the kid instead went for his gun for what reason is unknown but what outcome is known.

The kid was wielding a firearm replica of which had the clear distinguishing orange tip that is used as an universal sign that it isn't a fire arm, removed. Hell even the military in training and fire drills use colored tips even though its fake rounds, just to give that sense of security that it isn't a real gun and people will respond adequately instead of flying off the rails and doing something drastic.


No matter what you people say the officer is fully justified in the actions he took. I hate it, sucks for the family but shit happens that can't be helped.


And to answer why he shot him in the gut. That is a very dangerous place to get injured from a strike to a stab to a gunshot, but its also one of the largest centers of mass on an average human body and in a dangerous situation(guns being drawn) one is inclined to shoot at the easiest available target and as quick as possible. Now he could've shot him in the head, leg(femoral artery), shoulder(very dangerous to be shot in despite peoples' misconceptions), or arm. But that would take more time to aim and like I said, some are extremely dangerous, the gut is a high chance of dying but shit happens; he could've been shot in the leg and since he is a kid there would've been more of a chance of the femoral artery being ruptured which is almost always certain death if not acted upon medically in an immediate and dire fashion.


@Jagger

We don't know what type of injury it was. 

He shot his self in the ankle fell to the ground and feared for his life then shot the kid in the gut- While doubtful, would lead into the reason he shot him in the gut.


----------



## Vermin (Nov 23, 2014)

i am sorry but a child at 12 years of age should know right from wrong by now, if they don't they are autistic or retarded or have whatever other kind of remedial condition 

what part of raise your hands did he not understand,you can't fault the cops on every single time this shit happens, not every single damn time


----------



## ChatraOrChakra (Nov 23, 2014)

zyken said:


> i am sorry but a child at 12 years of age should know right from wrong by now, if they don't they are autistic or retarded or have whatever other kind of remedial condition
> 
> what part of raise your hands did he not understand,you can't fault the cops on every single time this shit happens, not every single damn time



your profile picture explains everything. scum


----------



## Chelydra (Nov 23, 2014)

So from what I am gathering people are upset because some retard decided it would be cool disobey police orders and reach for a realistic looking weapon which could not at the time be determined to be fake _after_ being told to put your hands up.

The policeman reacted with appropriate force end of story, people need to learn that actions have consequences, possibly severe to fatal depending on the situation, and that said waving a realistic looking gun around in public is not a simple childhood prank/innocent activity. And regardless of what people may say 12 is OLD ENOUGH to determine that waving a gun around in public is not the socially acceptable thing to do we need to stop excusing bad behavior because people "are not old enough to know its wrong".



Mintaka said:


> A removable orange tip?  How hard is it to make it so that the orange part of the gun is not removable in any realistic way?



A lot of people paint the tips black or whatever color the gun is to make it look more realistic, some type of macho thing...


----------



## Alicia (Nov 23, 2014)

I'm not fond of the American police myself, but I too have to say that the officer was justified in his actions. 

Too bad this will be misused as another example of police brutality.


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## NeoTerraKnight (Nov 23, 2014)

The boy didn't threaten the officer. So, I guess white guys should only be allowed to wave their weapons around. You find a lot of those in the Ferguson PD.

NRA's America ladies and gentlemen.


----------



## Gunners (Nov 23, 2014)

I remember when the police caught me doing something naughty. It's amazing what the fear of a beating can do to someone: my legs turned to jelly and the urge to piss arose as I walked them to my dad.


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## IchLiebe (Nov 23, 2014)

NeoTerraKnight said:


> The boy didn't threaten the officer. So, I guess white guys should only be allowed to wave their weapons around. You find a lot of those in the Ferguson PD.
> 
> NRA's America ladies and gentlemen.



Yes he threatened the officers plain as the day isn't night.

Drawing a gun, instead of raising your arms up and away from your body is a threat to the police when they issued the order.


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## NeoTerraKnight (Nov 23, 2014)

just going by the sources. I mean if the police can talk a old white man into dropping the weapon, then why not the same for the kid? Last I recall, John Crawford got shot and killed for open carrying a BB gun that was in display at a Walmart. Sounds like 2nd Amendment rights aren't for African Americans then.


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## Chelydra (Nov 23, 2014)

Big difference is that old white dude was not waving the gun around, he was holding it in such a manner that it could not be quickly used at the time, and while intimidating it was not pointed at anyone. Its like people think all these situations are the same....

Im willing to bet that if he was pointing it at people or waving it in a threatening manner _or_ near a school or playground the outcome would likely have been different.


----------



## Mintaka (Nov 23, 2014)

Chelydra said:


> A lot of people paint the tips black or whatever color the gun is to make it look more realistic, some type of macho thing...


I really shouldn't be this surprised by the stupidity of some people, but for some reason I am.


----------



## Deleted member 198194 (Nov 23, 2014)

so this was the fake gun apparently 



my immediate reaction is "why isn't there an orange tip on it", and then i remembered that it's a BB gun, which isn't a toy, and thus doesn't require them

and shouldn't have been in that kid's hands to begin with 


regardless, a 12 year old being killed is tragic


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## Oceania (Nov 23, 2014)

After seeing what the gun looks like there is no way you could fault the officer. Unless of course you know if you're a fucking idiot. I mean that looks like the real deal I mean how was the officer supposed to know? I mean we have kids shooting up schools all the time now.


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## NeoTerraKnight (Nov 23, 2014)

Then blame the dispatcher who even thought the BB gun was a fake. I mean, look what happened to John Crawford.


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## baconbits (Nov 23, 2014)

MartyMcFly1 said:


> I don't necessarily disagree with you...but why do those gangbangers exist in such large numbers in the first place? Where exactly are all these unruly young men coming from? They aren't being dropped from the sky.



True.  Many of them are the results of single parent homes, a failing education system and gangster/thug culture, where aspects of society thing the "thug life" and being uneducated are actually good things.



Sasuke_Bateman said:


> The police did nothing wrong.
> 
> On a side note, now that It's ok to shoot stupid children...I think it's ok to have sex with stupid children as well. I mean, why not?



I realize there's not much logical content in this post but I feel I need to respond.  When you have a kid aiming what appears to be a gun at a cop a cop can't take a chance.  There was, in his mind, a legitimate reason to fear for his life.  On the other hand having sex with a kid is never defensible.

That said I'll repeat what others have said because its true: this is a tragic death but ultimately the cause of death was the kid's actions.  I wish he wouldn't have pulled a weapon a cop.  



Mider T said:


> I can't tell if this has been happening a lot more in recent years or the media is just harping on it now, but it seems like this is now a weekly occurance.



I think this is a media thing rather than any increase in the statistics.  I tried to google it quickly but I got more news stories and confusion than some concise information, like a chart.  Maybe someone else has a graph that will make the data plain.


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## Inuhanyou (Nov 23, 2014)

WHat a fucked up situation :/


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## Gaawa-chan (Nov 23, 2014)

afgpride said:


> so this was the fake gun apparently



Can the pic be added to the first post?


Anyway, if someone was waving that thing around at people, and I showed up and tell them to put their hands up and their response is to pull the thing out, I'd probably do the same thing. Sucks ass but there you go.


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## NeoTerraKnight (Nov 24, 2014)

Guys, why don't you think about this clearly? Shouldn't the officer displayed more caution on handling the situation? Because remember, even the dispatcher said the gun was probably fake so shooting him out of fear would be unneccessary.

I believe I remember Sean Hannity saying if he was approached by a cop, he displayed his gun in his holster. So either it wasn't out of race or the training is f***ed up.


----------



## Chelydra (Nov 24, 2014)

NeoTerraKnight said:


> Then blame the dispatcher who even thought the BB gun was a fake. I mean, look what happened to John Crawford.





> Guys, why don't you think about this clearly? Shouldn't the officer displayed more caution on handling the situation? Because remember, even the dispatcher said the gun was probably fake so shooting him out of fear would be unneccessary.
> 
> I believe I remember Sean Hannity saying if he was approached by a cop, he displayed his gun in his holster. So either it wasn't out of race or the training is f***ed up.



People are thinking about this clearly. The only one who is to be blamed in this situation is the child himself. Its sad but its the truth, waving a gun around *after* being told to put your hands up is asking for it in _any_ country.


----------



## ChatraOrChakra (Nov 24, 2014)

Chelydra said:


> The only one who is to be blamed in this situation is the child himself. Its sad but its the truth, waving a gun around *after* being told to put your hands up is asking for it in _any_ country.



what? 
ok. lets shoot everyone with anything that looks like a gun, a knife. and every object that can kill. just like you said. HES A CHILD.


----------



## Chelydra (Nov 24, 2014)

ChatraOrChakra said:


> what?
> ok. lets shoot everyone with anything that looks like a gun, a knife. and every object that can kill. just like you said. HES A CHILD.



Being a "CHILD" does not exempt you from the consequences of your actions, _especially_ if firearms are involved. Even more so if reaching for said firearm after being told to put your hands up and away from your body. 

People really need to stop coddling. Its half the reason we have had a string of school shootings and other fucked acts committed by children.

Its sad the child had to die in this case, but its cut and dried, the child brought it on himself. 12 IS old enough to "know better" and know enough to do what the police tell you, and even not to bring a gun out in a public space or wave it around. And yes waving any deadly weapon around in public, in a threatening manner is likely to get you killed, either by a policeman, or another frightened citizen.


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## ChatraOrChakra (Nov 24, 2014)

Chelydra said:


> Being a "CHILD" does not exempt you from the consequences of your actions, _especially_ if firearms are involved. Even more so if reaching for said firearm after being told to put your hands up and away from your body.



did they even understand the situation. do they just shoot him immediately? sure a kid with a gun that was presumably fake get shot on the spot. if he was white he'd have never gotten shot. you know this.


----------



## Black Superman (Nov 24, 2014)

This is all the more reason why we need to have our own! Police our own. people call it racist but I'm tired of stories like these, for real. I can sit up here and pretend it's all the same, and we're all one big happily family and all that, but it's a lie. Clearly this type of reaction is specific. I feel like if you're allowed to shoot a 12-year old with the reasoning being that the kid provoked it,  you should also be alllowed to have sex with one as well, that cool with everyone?


----------



## Chelydra (Nov 24, 2014)

ChatraOrChakra said:


> did they even understand the situation. do they just shoot him immediately? sure a kid with a gun that was presumably fake get shot on the spot. if he was white he'd have never gotten shot. you know this.



The situation was, kid reaches for gun after being told to put hands up, thats grounds for an officer to shoot, end of discussion. And stop race baiting, your just doing that try try and get a rise out of people.

If your white and pull this shit, especially near a school, your going to get it as well, you know this, but I guess its more fun to play on racial tension right? Its the cool thing to do.


----------



## Tyrannos (Nov 24, 2014)

NeoTerraKnight said:


> Guys, why don't you think about this clearly? Shouldn't the officer displayed more caution on handling the situation? Because remember, even the dispatcher said the gun was probably fake so shooting him out of fear would be unneccessary.



You should think of it from the cop's perspective.   Even if the dispatch relayed it's likely a fake gun, cops are trained to always assume it's a live weapon and to be dealt with such.   And they are to also assume the kid very well could have a live weapon on him.

From what we were told, the Kid pulled out the weapon in a threatening manner, against directions by the officers on the scene.   And as a result, he got killed. 

This is why for decades, parents supposed to teach kids _NEVER_ point a toy gun at a cop!  



NeoTerraKnight said:


> I believe I remember Sean Hannity saying if he was approached by a cop, he displayed his gun in his holster. So either it wasn't out of race or the training is f***ed up.



No no no, he said he would first tell the officer he had a concealed weapon, then work with the officer to display it safely, under instruction.

Because you _never_ display a gun, even in a holster, because that cop is going to go into defensive posture immediately.


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## MartyMcFly1 (Nov 24, 2014)

In these situations, I love how people at large are willing to accept the idea that young black men are making the most violent departures from logic when their lives are at risk. So, Mike Brown "charges" at a police officer who is pointing a loaded gun at him. This kid tries to "pull out his Airsoft gun" and point it at a police officer who told him to put his hands up and who is pointing a loaded gun at him.

At no time whatsoever does anyone question this narrative. I've had a loaded gun pointed at me by cops and at no time whatsoever have I ever attempted to "charge" the officer or reach down and grab something. The consequences of those actions are very clear. The idea that we would do these things fits into their narrative of us. Don't ever forget that.


----------



## SLB (Nov 24, 2014)

ChatraOrChakra said:


> did they even understand the situation. do they just shoot him immediately? sure a kid with a gun that was presumably fake get shot on the spot. if he was white he'd have never gotten shot. you know this.



he was given a warning, dude. he was not shot immediately. he was shot aftet disobeying a direct order to put up his hands. cops are there to serve and protect, and that also includes themselves. they aren't there to make 50/50 guesses on the potential threat based on unsure testimonies from a 911 call. 

stop playing the race card and use your brain.


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## NeoTerraKnight (Nov 24, 2014)

Look here's an idea, how about we shoot every kid that has an object that looks like a gun? Besides, you wouldn't know that if we can hear from Tamir's story because oh wait; HE'S DEAD. Remember how John Crawford died near Dayton in the same state?


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Nov 24, 2014)

The same thing would have happened if he was a white kid. The fact of the matter is he pulled out a weapon (even though it was only proven to be fake after) and pointed it at the cops. As much as you guys hate it due to your hatred and fear of police officers, it was justified.


----------



## Gaawa-chan (Nov 24, 2014)

ZeroTheDestroyer said:


> I feel like if you're allowed to shoot a 12-year old with the reasoning being that the kid provoked it,  you should also be alllowed to have sex with one as well, that cool with everyone?


Holy non-sequitur, Batman! :amazed




NeoTerraKnight said:


> Look here's an idea, how about we shoot every kid that has an object that looks like a gun? Besides, you wouldn't know that if we can hear from Tamir's story because oh wait; HE'S DEAD. Remember how John Crawford died near Dayton in the same state?


You don't pull a weapon out, real or not, when a police officer is telling you to put your hands up. I don't give a flying fuck about your race.  If you had THIS:

at your waist and I told you to put your hands up and your response was to pull it out, I would shoot you.



ChatraOrChakra said:


> what?
> ok. lets shoot everyone with anything that looks like a gun, a knife. and every object that can kill. just like you said. HES A CHILD.


You don't pull a weapon out, real or not, when a police officer is telling you to put your hands up.



ChatraOrChakra said:


> did they even understand the situation. do they just shoot him immediately? sure a kid with a gun that was presumably fake get shot on the spot. if he was white he'd have never gotten shot. you know this.


Read the article before you post.  And I'm not even going to dignify that last statement with a response.



MartyMcFly1 said:


> At no time whatsoever does anyone question this narrative.


This may come as a bit of a shock to you but:
1. People are supposed to be presumed innocent until proven guilty AND
2. there were WITNESSES.


----------



## MartyMcFly1 (Nov 24, 2014)

Gaawa-chan said:


> This may come as a bit of a shock to you but:
> 1. People are supposed to be presumed innocent until proven guilty AND
> 2. there were WITNESSES.



I also cited the Mike Brown case, where there are several witnesses saying that Brown had his hands up when he got killed, but I'm sure those don't count. Those witnesses are largely ignored by the media at large. Look at these two cases:

[youtube]S9FtNOV6Qhk[/youtube]

[youtube]nGAeb9R_FFE[/youtube]

As far as I know, none of the cops responsible for what happened in these two videos have been charged with or convicted of anything. Lets not pretend that police officers aren't inclined to view young black men in a certain way that makes these sort of incidents much more likely.


----------



## Gaawa-chan (Nov 24, 2014)

MartyMcFly1 said:


> I also cited the Mike Brown case, where there are several witnesses saying that Brown had his hands up when he got killed, but I'm sure those don't count. Those witnesses are largely ignored by the media at large. Look at these two cases:


Unless you can link to witness statements from THIS case that don't line up with events as stated in the article, you've got nothing.



> Lets not pretend that police officers aren't inclined to view young black men in a certain way that makes these sort of incidents much more likely.


Everyone is biased to some degree.  That doesn't mean we should automatically assume that this particular cop wanted to shoot a black kid for teh evilz without any evidence to indicate such.


----------



## MartyMcFly1 (Nov 24, 2014)

Gaawa-chan said:


> Unless you can link to witness statements from THIS case that don't line up with events as stated in the article, you've got nothing.
> 
> Everyone is biased to some degree.  That doesn't mean we should automatically assume that this particular cop wanted to shoot a black kid for teh evilz without any evidence to indicate such.



I referenced the other cases to provide evidence that 1, people have no problem dismissing witnesses in high profile cases like this. 2, witness reports don't seem to amount to much when it comes to convicting an officer of wrongdoing. And 3,  even when it happens in broad daylight and they are unquestionable in the wrong, cops aren't going to get in trouble for doing this.

You didn't cite any witness reports yourself. I simply claimed that the story was suspicious as its being reported.


----------



## Ghost (Nov 24, 2014)

little shit got what he asked for


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Nov 24, 2014)

And you're assuming the worse based on your racial prejudice.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Nov 24, 2014)

Mael said:


> Right because black kids are the ones leered at for being high-profile shooters?
> 
> So far the track record has been white, Asian, and Native American, and not due to some "toxic masculinity" bullshit but serious societal problems in approaching mental illness and social isolation.



Oddly enough white high profile shooters tend to get taken alive. Meanwhile black unarmed people tend to end up on the slab. 

I guess that's your cue to shut the fuck up.


----------



## Gaawa-chan (Nov 24, 2014)

MartyMcFly1 said:


> I referenced the other _cases_ to provide evidence that 1, people have no problem dismissing witnesses in high profile cases like this. 2, witness reports don't seem to amount to much when it comes to _convicting_ an officer of wrongdoing. And 3,  even when it happens in broad daylight and they are unquestionable in the wrong, cops aren't going to get in trouble for doing this.



I am not talking about a goddamn corrupt justice system or the lack of convictions in other instances and you fucking know it.  I am talking about fucking media coverage of THIS CASE. Give me ONE article that supports the positive claim of a witness that the officer shot the kid unjustly and then my position will change in a heart-beat, but if such a thing does not exist, then the bitching in this thread is completely unjustified and moreover extremely dickish.  You guys are demonizing a complete stranger when you have NOTHING to support your accusations at this point in time.




> You didn't cite any witness reports yourself. I simply claimed that the story was suspicious as its being reported.



Oh, now I'm the one who has to cite an article that states that NO witness saw the cop unjustly shooting the kid?  Funny, that's exactly _what the article posted in the fucking first post of this topic says._

Jesus Christ how can people be this thick?! 




Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Oddly enough white high profile shooters tend to get taken alive. Meanwhile black unarmed people tend to end up on the slab.
> 
> I guess that's your cue to shut the fuck up.



Statistics adjusted for percentages of the # of crimes of that type committed by each race, please.  I've no doubt that this is true but I also have no doubt that it is not nearly as wide-spread as people make it out to be.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Nov 24, 2014)

Gaawa-chan said:


> Holy non-sequitur, Batman! :amazed
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Original article I read said he told the kid to drop the gun, which is a different command than put your hands up. Oddly enough the article has been replaced with one saying "put your hands up now". 

If he really did say "drop the gun" it would make sense that the kid reached for it. 

Also BB guns tend to have huge orange tips on them, but the one on this gun was removed. I find that oddly suspicious and would like to know if when the parents saw the gun last it was removed then. 

With the polices moves to cover up evidence in these shootings and sweep them under the rug I don't really feel inclined to trust them. 

And the racial issue isn't going to just go away considering that you've got a disproportionately amount of blacks in prison for the same crimes committed by whites who got off without issue or who served lighter sentences. Saying everyone has their biases isn't really saying anything. The problem needs to be fixed, not have excuses made for it. 

There's going to be a breaking point sooner or later, Houston's was  and it sounds like we need one for the nation again soon. But a lot of people of all races don't see the cops as friends or protectors, they see them as oppressors and they're really busy acting the part well.


----------



## Nighty the Mighty (Nov 24, 2014)

> Also BB guns tend to have huge orange tips on them, but the one on this gun was removed. I find that oddly suspicious and would like to know if when the parents saw the gun last it was removed then.



are you implying the police later removed the tip?

srsly?


----------



## MartyMcFly1 (Nov 24, 2014)

Gaawa-chan said:


> I am not talking about a goddamn corrupt justice system or the lack of convictions in other instances and you fucking know it.  I am talking about fucking media coverage of THIS CASE. Give me ONE article that supports the positive claim of a witness that the officer shot the kid unjustly and then my position will change in a heart-beat, but if such a thing does not exist, then the bitching in this thread is completely unjustified and moreover extremely dickish.  You guys are demonizing a complete stranger when you have NOTHING to support your accusations at this point in time.
> 
> 
> Oh, now I'm the one who has to cite an article that states that NO witness saw the cop unjustly shooting the kid?  Funny, that's exactly _what the article posted in the fucking first post of this topic says._
> ...



I said the story, as it is being reported, is suspicious and I compared the narrative to the Mike Brown case. You made the claim that there were witnesses present when this little boy got killed. Where are the reports? Show them to me.

Also, stop PMSing and getting so emotionally charged. It is low class behavior.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Nov 24, 2014)

Nightbringer said:


> are you implying the police later removed the tip?
> 
> srsly?



Is it hard to believe when police were filmed firing tear gas at reporters and dismantling their camera equipment in Furgeson? 

Or when police hid this tape: 



Yeah, I'm saying that. Don't want to believe it could happen. Then I pity your ability to look at what the fuck is going on around you. 



MartyMcFly1 said:


> I said the story, as it is being reported, is suspicious and I compared the narrative to the Mike Brown case. You made the claim that there were witnesses present when this little boy got killed. Where are the reports? Show them to me.
> 
> Also, stop PMSing and getting so emotionally charged. It is low class behavior.


It wouldn't be you if you didn't pepper your replies with sexism.


----------



## MartyMcFly1 (Nov 24, 2014)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> It wouldn't be you if you didn't pepper your replies with sexism.



What exactly is "sexist" about what I just wrote. She was being emotional and insulting. I reprimanded her and then dismissed those parts of her post.

Also, citing Gawker isn't going to change anyone's opinion.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Nov 24, 2014)

MartyMcFly1 said:


> What are you even talking about? What exactly is "sexist" about what I just wrote. She was being angry and insulting. I reprimanded and then dismissed those parts of her post.


I refuse to believe you're this simple.


----------



## Gaawa-chan (Nov 24, 2014)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Original article I read ............... them.



Until you have witness statements to the media verifying anything you've said?  You're pulling shit out of the air.




> And the racial issue isn't going to just go away considering that you've got a disproportionately amount of blacks in prison for the same crimes committed by whites who got off without issue or who served lighter sentences. Saying everyone has their biases isn't really saying anything. The problem needs to be fixed, not have excuses made for it.



I didn't say that it would.  Nice misdirection though.  Try reading my statement in its entirety this time:
"Everyone is biased to some degree. _That doesn't mean we should automatically assume that this particular cop wanted to shoot a black kid for teh evilz *without any evidence to indicate such.*_"
 I hate to break it to you but bias is an ingrained part of human nature and it is not going anywhere.  And let's hear your plan for fixing the problem of 'everyone has bias.' I assume it has something to do with freaking the fuck out every time a white cop shoots someone who isn't white when you have absolutely no evidence that they were doing so unjustly?
'Cause that's a really good way to convince people that your position is the correct one.  Doesn't make you look unreasonable at all.



> There's going to be a breaking point sooner or later, Houston's was  and it sounds like we need one for the nation again soon. But a lot of people of all races don't see the cops as friends or protectors, they see them as oppressors and they're really busy acting the part well.



Um... so are people just going to keep linking to completely unrelated instances of people being assholes in lieu of anything that actually supports the shit that they're spouting?

Fuck this, I'm going to bed.


----------



## MartyMcFly1 (Nov 24, 2014)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> I refuse to believe you're this simple.



Because I said she was PMSing? If it looks like a duck, and walks like a duck, then its a duck. If she can't have a civilized conversation without getting emotional and insulting, then I don't really see the need to engage her respectfully (even though what I said wasn't really that bad). You should have seen what I was going to say to her at first.



Gaawa-chan said:


> Until you have witness statements to the media verifying anything you've said?  You're pulling shit out of the air.



Let's be clear, you are the one who said that there were witnesses who saw the cop shoot the little boy. Either provide evidence or stop talking. I'm entitled to my opinion that the story is suspicious.


----------



## Gaawa-chan (Nov 24, 2014)

MartyMcFly1 said:


> I said the story, as it is being reported, is suspicious and I compared the narrative to the Mike Brown case. You made the claim that there were witnesses present when this little boy got killed. Where are the reports? Show them to me.





> A concerned man, who was sat nearby, called 911 and told the dispatcher: 'I’m sitting in the park…there’s a guy in here with a pistol, and it’s probably a fake one, but he’s pointing it at everybody.
> 
> 'The guy keeps pulling it in and out…it’s probably fake, but he’s scaring the s*** out of people.'+6



Oh, you're right.  There must not have been anyone there.  Silly me.




> Also, *stop PMSing* and getting so emotionally charged. It is *low class* behavior.



I'll give you points for being the first ironic statement I've read today. 




MartyMcFly1 said:


> Because I said she was PMSing? If it looks like a duck, and walks like a duck, then its a duck. If she can't have a civilized conversation without getting emotional and insulting, then I don't really see the need to engage her respectfully (even though what I said wasn't really that bad). You should have seen what I was going to say to her at first.



Not that it's any of your business what the fuck my body does (and for the record, I'm not 'emotional'; I've developed a fondness for swear words.  They're to the point.) but I am not PMSing.  I am, however, recovering from major surgery.
But apparently using swear words completely invalidates people's statements so whatever.  Oh, well.  I suppose if a witness statement proving your point comes out and it's full of swear words, you'll ignore it?





> Let's be clear, you are the one who said that there were witnesses who saw the cop shoot the little boy. Either provide evidence or stop talking. I'm entitled to my opinion that the story is suspicious.



I don't type quickly, asshole; I can barely move my arms. As it is I already responded to you in an edit.


----------



## iJutsu (Nov 24, 2014)

Now imagine if this was in a school setting. That kid would've been just a bullet hole with flesh around it.


----------



## MartyMcFly1 (Nov 24, 2014)

Gaawa-chan said:


> Oh, you're right.  There must not have been anyone there.  Silly me.



Did he give a report of the shooting? It is entirely possible that this occurred after everyone left.

In light of everything that has recently going on with police brutality against black people in these past few years, I have a hard time believing that they wouldn't provide witness testimony in their article.



Gaawa-chan said:


> I'll give you points for being the first ironic statement I've read today.



I stand by what I said. You should have composed yourself.


----------



## Gaawa-chan (Nov 24, 2014)

MartyMcFly1 said:


> Did he give a report of the shooting? It is entirely possible that this occurred after everyone left.



You guys are making positive claims without evidence.  I am not.  Either hunt down witness statements to support your accusations or shut the fuck up AND WAIT until witness statements are made/are given to the media.  I guess you guys just can't wait that long, can you.  It's a terrible burden to have to wait for evidence.  I honestly don't know how I stand it sometimes. Boo-hoo. 


... It's 1:24 AM?  My pill cycle is gonna be all out of whack...


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Nov 24, 2014)

Gaawa-chan said:


> Until you have witness statements to the media verifying anything you've said?  You're pulling shit out of the air.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Are people linking to instances of cops shooting people? I can keep doing that if you like. It's pretty easy, not as easy as it should be . But hey, that's just unrelated bullshit, right? 

And my problem isn't white cops shooting people, it's the number of cops shooting unarmed people of all colors. Or just beating and abusing them. A white guy in California shot in his own apartment for tending to a wounded person. A baby who had a flash bang tossed in its crib while cops were serving a no knock warrant for a menial about amount of drugs. 

My solution to the problem is real fucking simple, make them all wear cameras. But thanks for trying to put words in my mouth, see you're not arguing with that dumbass Marty. I actually know what I'm talking about and have enough going on in my head to have an idea about how to address the problem other than simply "freaking the fuck out" as you called it. 

But go on arguing about how this is an overreaction.


----------



## MartyMcFly1 (Nov 24, 2014)

Gaawa-chan said:


> Not that it's any of your business what the fuck my body does (and for the record, I'm not 'emotional'; I've developed a fondness for swear words.  They're to the point.) but I am not PMSing.  I am, however, recovering from major surgery.
> But apparently using swear words completely invalidates people's statements so whatever.  Oh, well.  I suppose if a witness statement proving your point comes out and it's full of swear words, you'll ignore it?



None of this matters. It isn't my job to be aware of your surgery, everyone has problems.

I didn't ignore you. I responded to the points within your post, I just criticized the way you came across. Your previous posts aren't as emotional, obviously you were affected emotionally by what I said.



Gaawa-chan said:


> You guys are making positive claims without evidence.  I am not.  Either hunt down witness statements to support your accusations or shut the fuck up AND WAIT until witness statements are made/are given to the media.  I guess you guys just can't wait that long, can you.  It's a terrible burden to have to wait for evidence.  I honestly don't know how I stand it sometimes. Boo-hoo.



I just called the story suspicious. I am entitled to my opinion. We wouldn't be talking about witness reports if you didn't confidently state that there were any.


----------



## Gaawa-chan (Nov 24, 2014)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Are people linking to instances of cops shooting people? I can keep doing that if you like. It's pretty easy, not as easy as it should be . But hey, that's just unrelated bullshit, right?


To this particular case as you have no evidence to support your accusations at this point in time? Yes, it is.



> And my problem isn't white cops shooting people, it's the number of cops shooting unarmed people of all colors. Or just beating and abusing them. A white guy in California shot in his own apartment for tending to a wounded person. A baby who had a flash bang tossed in its crib while cops were serving a no knock warrant for a menial about amount of drugs.


Just because I think people should wait for fucking EVIDENCE OF ANY KIND before accusing someone of a crime, that does not mean I am apathetic to or support police brutality.  Goddamnit CTK. 



> My solution to the problem is real fucking simple, make them all wear cameras.


See above. I would not object to that but yet again that has nothing to do with the case at hand unless evidence of wrong-doing in any form turns up, which as of right now has not happened.
Reactions like this just make the situation worse, but I suppose most people don't think of that.



> But thanks for trying to put words in my mouth,


Second ironic statement of the day. 




MartyMcFly1 said:


> None of this matters. It isn't my job to be aware of your surgery, everyone has problems.
> 
> I didn't ignore you. I responded to the points within your post, I just criticized the way you came across.


You're the one who brought my body into the conversation. 
Shall I "criticize the way you come across"?  You come across as someone who thinks that his position is inherently better than the person he's speaking to just because he doesn't use swear words. 



> I just called the story suspicious. I am entitled to my opinion. We wouldn't be talking about witness reports if you didn't confidently state that there were any.


I asked you for a witness statement of any kind that indicates that there is wrong-doing.  You can't provide one.  I was trying to illustrate two reasons why what you asked me to provide was absurd.  The first is that the article indicates that people were on scene and afraid already, and the second is this:

I'm gonna laugh pretty damn hard if it turns out the cop did nothing wrong, because it means you guys accused someone who did nothing wrong of shooting a twelve-year-old kid for teh evilz because you couldn't be bothered to see if any of your accusations had anything to back them up. 

We are asked to presume innocence for a goddamn good reason that none of you seem to get.  NOTHING you guys have said changes the fact that your accusations are completely unfounded and when I ask for the thing that could instantly make your suspicions founded- a witness that disagrees with the articles stated events- and you can't provide?  Then you've got nothing.

Baseless accusations without evidence just make everything worse.


----------



## brolmes (Nov 24, 2014)

Hunted by sister said:


> How often does tasering someone not work? When you miss (oh god you can also miss with a gun!) or your target is a big fat guy. A small kid wouldn't stand a chance. He'd immediatly drop and pee/shit/both himself.



max range of a taser is 10 yards

you get 1 shot at firing some little free-flying cables instead of 15 shots firing rifled bullets

if you miss for whatever reason you die

and that's it

you're a fucking idiot for always talking about tasers in situations where police see someone with a lethal weapon... like that sword guy... hurr durrr it's just a sword it's not like the tueller drill is a thing or anythng, or like a completely untrained person has been proven to be able to close the distance and stab someone in literally 2 seconds before they have time to unholster their gun, nevermind the added time it would take trying to fuck around with a taser first

//HbS


----------



## MartyMcFly1 (Nov 24, 2014)

Gaawa-chan said:


> You're the one who brought my body into the conversation.
> Shall I "criticize the way you come across"?  You come across as someone who thinks that his position is inherently better than the person he's speaking to just because he doesn't use swear words.



PMSing is used more as a slang for someone who is acting bitchy or overemotional. I never claimed that the swear words impacted your argument at all, I just said it made you look emotional.



Gaawa-chan said:


> I asked you for a witness statement of any kind that indicates that there is wrong-doing.  You can't provide one.  I was trying to illustrate two reasons why what you asked me to provide was absurd.  The first is that the article indicates that people were on scene and afraid already, and the second is this:
> 
> I'm gonna laugh pretty damn hard if it turns out the cop did nothing wrong, because it means you guys accused someone who did nothing wrong of shooting a twelve-year-old kid for teh evilz because you couldn't be bothered to see if any of your accusations had anything to back them up.
> 
> ...



Here is how this went: I made the claim that these stories about these guys don't make sense the way that they are being explained. You then made the claim that there were witnesses present who saw the shooting. I asked for to provide them for me. You then went off the deep end about presumed innocence. 

Me calling the story suspicious before all the facts have come out isn't the same as dismissing the presumption of innocence. If you are going to confidently assert that there were witnesses who saw the shooting, then you should show them or not make such claims in the future.

Nothing about this story should make you "_laugh pretty damn hard_". A 12 year old was killed. You sound like a messed up individual.


----------



## Blue (Nov 24, 2014)

Turns out they got it on camera.

Finally, the brave new world of not having to listen to idiots make up their own narratives for every fucking shooting.


----------



## Blue (Nov 24, 2014)

> The attorney for the family of the Cleveland youngster, who also was black, downplayed any possible racial connotations to the shooting. Police have not disclosed the race of the officer who shot Tamir.
> 
> "This is not a black and white issue. This is a right and wrong issue," attorney Tim Kucharski said.


Oh my god, a family who didn't automatically call Al Sharpton

AND cops who didn't turn off their cameras

Am I in bizarro world?


----------



## Deleted member 23 (Nov 24, 2014)

Blue said:


> Turns out they got it on camera.
> 
> Finally, the brave new world of not having to listen to idiots make up their own narratives for every fucking shooting.



Only the crooked cops do that, these cops were politically correct.
These only brings up yet another issue.


----------



## NeoTerraKnight (Nov 24, 2014)

So, look at this carefully? Should this behavior be the norm among cops?

[YOUTUBE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LaaeXIg9kSk [/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Blue (Nov 24, 2014)

NeoTerraKnight said:


> So, look at this carefully? Should this behavior be the norm among cops?



Why are you trying to start shit with a video of a cop who obviously fucked up?


----------



## NeoTerraKnight (Nov 24, 2014)

Stirring what up? Pointing out cops these days are getting way too trigger happy despite crime going down? This calls to the so-called training that got innocent people killed by cops. I remember John Crawford's death was according to the training.


----------



## Deputy Myself (Nov 24, 2014)

NeoTerraKnight said:


> Stirring what up? Pointing out cops these days are getting way too trigger happy despite crime going down? This calls to the so-called training that got innocent people killed by cops. I remember John Crawford's death was according to the training.



so what do you suggest


----------



## Jagger (Nov 24, 2014)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Is it hard to believe when police were filmed firing tear gas at reporters and dismantling their camera equipment in Furgeson?
> 
> Or when police hid this tape:
> 
> ...


Thing is that you literally have no way to prove whether the tip was removed after the kid was shot down nor there are witnesses that point out any authority  removed the safe. 

I'm not saying it couldn't have happened, but insulting others because they believe otherwise since the evidence points the other way around isn't exactly smart, specially the "I pity your ability to look at what the fuck is going on around you".


----------



## NeoTerraKnight (Nov 24, 2014)

Deputy Myself said:


> so what do you suggest



Oh I don't know, read the situation and proceed with caution. You know, talk to the kid about the weapon he's holding instead of going all shooty shooty. You know, like these cops handling this old guy.



I mean if you can safely apprehend a cop killer or one who uses an AR-15 to kill over 10 people at a movie theater, then this should be easy.


----------



## brolmes (Nov 24, 2014)

NeoTerraKnight said:


> Stirring what up? Pointing out cops these days are getting way too trigger happy despite crime going down?



and you never stopped to think maybe the reason crime is going down is cause they've been shooting everybody

if you want to make an omelette you have to shoot a few kids in the gut


----------



## Deputy Myself (Nov 24, 2014)

NeoTerraKnight said:


> Oh I don't know, read the situation and proceed with caution. You know, talk to the kid about the weapon he's holding instead of going all shooty shooty.



I'm talking systematic solutions
not blaming individuals who probably acted according to (perceived) protocol

I'm not reading any of these bullshit links about other instances of unwarranted police brutality. Admit your government has to step in, your law enforcement needs to improve, your gun policy needs to improve, and you have to parent your goddamn children better.

edit: And fix your fucking racial tensions, they're extremely stupid to any outsider.


----------



## Blue (Nov 24, 2014)

Deputy Myself said:


> edit: And fix your fucking racial tensions, they're extremely stupid to any outsider.



They practically don't exist. Cops shoot a lot of people because a lot of people have guns. Black cops don't shoot any less black people than white cops.


----------



## Pilaf (Nov 25, 2014)

The little thug was told to put his fucking hands up. It's a simple request. You can't follow simple orders, sometimes you get hurt.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Nov 25, 2014)

Blue said:


> They practically don't exist. Cops shoot a lot of people because a lot of people have guns. Black cops don't shoot any less black people than white cops.



Impossible to prove because they don't keep records, but go on.


----------



## St. YatōKiri_Kilgharrah (Nov 25, 2014)

baconbits said:


> The cop is not going to get in trouble for this.  He has a suspect scaring people with what appears to be a gun.  The suspect is given a clear warning and still draws his weapon.  Cops have to shoot at that point and no police chief in America would give orders not to shoot when an apparent weapon is drawn on you with what you could interpret to be lethal intent.
> 
> Also, people do too much crying about these issues.  Sometimes the cops screw up but thousands of kids get killed by gangbangers shooting randomly in our neighborhoods.  That deserves more outrage than someone so stupid they drew a weapon on a cop.



Gangbanging like a motherfucking shri


----------



## Blue (Nov 25, 2014)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Impossible to prove because they don't keep records, but go on.



An academic study was done. I was being generous, the black cops actually shot more. Three ways you can hypothesize that:

1. The black cops are more incompetent
2. The black cops have internalized profiling
3. Statistical margin of error

I've posted the study like 3 times, maybe if you don't end up back in the bathhouse masturbating to gingers, I'll bother digging it up again.


----------



## Black Superman (Nov 25, 2014)

Blue said:


> They practically don't exist. Cops shoot a lot of people because a lot of people have guns. Black cops don't shoot any less black people than white cops.





> I had something similar happen to me when I was 15. My friends and I were shooting a rifle BB gun at trees near my house and some cac called the police. Luckily it was 1 black officer that responded to the call. If it was a cac officer I'm 100% sure my friend who was holding the BB gun when the officer pulled up would of been shot. The brother got out of his squad car with his hand near his gun but not drawn and told him to put it down and everybody went home that night. He even lectured us about how we shouldn't mess with BB guns because some people(white people) would assume different things.


----------



## Hunted by sister (Nov 25, 2014)

Mael said:


> And if the gun was real and the taser missed or was ineffective?
> 
> But no you're spewing typical silliness.


You do realise that guns also miss, right?

Yeah, it's much better to shoot to kill everyone suspicious. One day, you'll get shot. And then I highly doubt you'll stick to the stupid trigger-happy attitude you're sticking to now.

Less modern military shooter games and more thinking as a human being, ok? I can't belive I just had a chance to say something like this to someone, considering how much I play games...

//HbS


----------



## Blue (Nov 25, 2014)

Anecdotes, the last resort of the desperate.

Here's mine: A family friend of mine - a black man - was beaten by a white cop. He was 69. It took him two months to die. 
If that cop was shot in the face tomorrow, I would be a little glad.

But do I think that's evidence of endemic racism in law enforcement?

Nah. Cops just tend to be really stupid violent dickbags, and should be made to wear cameras.

Anyway, here's the key part of the story you told:



> and told him to put it down
> 
> and everybody went home that night.



See where this story differs from the one in the OP? I'm guessing the BB gun was put down.


----------



## Blue (Nov 25, 2014)

Hunted by sister said:


> You do realise that guns also miss, right?
> 
> //HbS



Yes but there's 11 more bullets in the gun.

Tazers get one shot.


----------



## SLB (Nov 25, 2014)

ok, the scenario is from the perspective of the cop who is enforcing the law and protecting the public, hbs. not the criminal.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Nov 25, 2014)

Why do ignorant dipshits keep invoking Sharpton as if he's even relevant to anyone in this day and age?


----------



## Subarashii (Nov 25, 2014)

Blue said:


> See where this story differs from the one in the OP? I'm guessing the BB gun was put down.



What if he were reaching for it to put it down?!
It was in his pants, after all


----------



## brolmes (Nov 25, 2014)

Hunted by sister said:


> You do realise that guns also miss, right?
> 
> Yeah, it's much better to shoot to kill everyone suspicious. One day, you'll get shot. And then I highly doubt you'll stick to the stupid trigger-happy attitude you're sticking to now.
> 
> ...



funny thing is you're the one being an unrealistic retard from playing too many games

your attitude is "oh so the cop misses, big deal! at least no one dies!"

you know... except the fucking cop

and like.. a real.. actual death

where he isn't alive any more

and doesn't respawn at his last save point

you breathtaking fucking idiot

//HbS


----------



## Jagger (Nov 25, 2014)

Hunted by sister said:


> You do realise that guns also miss, right?
> //HbS


The same way they can also hit you or other civilians in the area, so yes. Not to mention guns generally carry more than one bullet, so constant fire (in the hypothetical case it was a real gun) was also possible as well.

Is there an unusual amount of cops utilizing more strength than required? Yes, no one can deny so and there are several flaws that should be fixed, but this case is just something more than just "PIGS COPS EVERYWHERE".


----------



## Hunted by sister (Nov 25, 2014)

Blue said:


> Yes but there's 11 more bullets in the gun.
> 
> Tazers get one shot.


Yeah, true, but he was acting like guns had 100% accuracy

//HbS


----------



## NeoTerraKnight (Nov 26, 2014)

Two seconds... Officer just got out and shot the kid in two seconds. Two seconds... Two MOTHERFUCKING SECONDS!


----------



## Chelydra (Nov 26, 2014)

Enough time to put your hands up after hearing the police yell it at you several times, assuming they actually did yell at him to raise his hands.


----------



## NeoTerraKnight (Nov 26, 2014)

...They parked a car right in front of him in the middle of the park. And you know what a person can do to you in two seconds, get out of the car and punch you in the face in a snap of a finger.


----------



## Chelydra (Nov 26, 2014)

Something you don't do to someone with a fucking gun, hello where is common sense?

They did not know it was fake until after the fact.


----------



## Risyth (Nov 26, 2014)

*NTK makes a good case. Just for that alone, something should've happened to these guys. Did they deal with any consequences for killing this child?


...never mind. I don't know why I'm even asking that.*


----------



## kidgogeta (Nov 27, 2014)

Pilaf said:


> The little thug was told to put his fucking hands up. It's a simple request. You can't follow simple orders, sometimes you get hurt.



HES 12!! WTF  12 year olds can be a thugs? Get the fuck out of your little bubble man. His brain couldn't have been developed to the point where he could break out of the values that were instilled in him by his parents, or whoever influences him. Kid's don't need to be killed over crap like this. 

EVEN ASSUMING that it was a real gun, any reasonable person would expect that when MULTIPLE 
trained officers outnumber a suspect with a simple handgun, they can handle the situation without lethal force. What happened to shooting people in the legs? The kid made a mistake, but these pigs could have  permanently took away his future. Disgusting.


----------



## Chelydra (Nov 27, 2014)

kidgogeta said:


> HES 12!! WTF  12 year olds can be a thugs? Get the fuck out of your little bubble man. His brain couldn't have been developed to the point where he could break out of the values that were instilled in him by his parents. Kid's don't need to be killed over crap like this.
> 
> EVEN ASSUMING that it was a real gun, any reasonable person would expect that when MULTIPLE
> trained officers outnumber a suspect with a simple handgun, they can handle the situation without lethal force. The kid made a mistake, but these pigs could have  permanently took away his future. Disgusting.



Dude this is part of the issue, you assume because someone is of a certain age they are exempt from the consequences of their actions because they "don't know better" Hate to ruin your feelings but they do, end of discussion, only a moron will go around waving a gun around in public, and even a younger child would know better if the parents did their fucking jobs as parents.

People try using this shit on 15 and older "teens" as well, its saddening.

As for the rest of your post, no, police are trained to neutralize a threat, and thats what they did. This is not the movies where they use some fancy karate shit to disarm someone. Real life does not work that way.


----------



## kidgogeta (Nov 27, 2014)

Seriously stop trolling. 12 year olds can still be in grade school. Oh my god. Are we really arguing this?


----------



## Chelydra (Nov 27, 2014)

kidgogeta said:


> No, seriously stop trolling. 12 year olds can still be in grade school. Oh my god. Are we really arguing this?



Again passing off age as an excuse to do stupid shit. Admit your wrong and piss off. Thanks!


----------



## Deleted member 235437 (Nov 27, 2014)

The kid was 12......you're telling me a cop couldn't have taken a TWELVE YEAR OLD down without using a gun and shooting him??


----------



## Chelydra (Nov 27, 2014)

Khaleesi said:


> The kid was 12......you're telling me a cop couldn't have taken a TWELVE YEAR OLD down without using a gun and shooting him??



When said 12 year old is armed, nope. Like I said they did *not* know the gun was fake, and the kid *reached for it* *after* being told to put your hands up, thats asking for a death sentence right there. Either way the age is irrelevant. The said person was presumed armed and dangerous and treated as such when he failed to comply with police orders.


----------



## Deleted member 235437 (Nov 27, 2014)

Chelydra said:


> When said 12 year old is armed, nope. Like I said they did *not* know the gun was fake, and the kid *reached for it* *after* being told to put your hands up, thats asking for a death sentence right there. Either way the age is irrelevant. The said person was presumed armed and dangerous and treated as such when he failed to comply with police orders.



Did the gun not look fake? It was a bb gun, did it not look like a real gun? Cops are too trigger happy these days, a 12 year old, a damn 12 year old.


----------



## kidgogeta (Nov 27, 2014)

Chelydra said:


> Again passing off age as an excuse to do stupid shit. Admit your wrong and piss off. Thanks!



Your argument is weak as fuck. If people thought like you then the ages 18 and 21 wouldn't mean anything to society. Fortunately the powers that be have a bit more common sense.


----------



## Chelydra (Nov 27, 2014)

Khaleesi said:


> Did the gun not look fake? It was a bb gun, did it not look like a real gun? Cops are too trigger happy these days, a 12 year old, a damn 12 year old.



No it did not.



> Your argument is weak as fuck. If people thought like you then the ages 18 and 21 wouldn't mean anything to society. Fortunately the powers that be have a bit more common sense. And fuck you too thanks for attacking me instead of supporting your argument you twat.



Already did in my previous post, no need to repeat myself to someone governed by naive feelings.

But here you go:
*Spoiler*: __ 





kidgogeta said:


> HES 12!! WTF  12 year olds can be a thugs? Get the fuck out of your little bubble man. His brain couldn't have been developed to the point where he could break out of the values that were instilled in him by his parents. Kid's don't need to be killed over crap like this.
> 
> EVEN ASSUMING that it was a real gun, any reasonable person would expect that when MULTIPLE
> trained officers outnumber a suspect with a simple handgun, they can handle the situation without lethal force. The kid made a mistake, but these pigs could have  permanently took away his future. Disgusting.



Dude this is part of the issue, you assume because someone is of a certain age they are exempt from the consequences of their actions because they "don't know better" Hate to ruin your feelings but they do, end of discussion, only a moron will go around waving a gun around in public, and even a younger child would know better if the parents did their fucking jobs as parents.

People try using this shit on 15 and older "teens" as well, its saddening.

As for the rest of your post, no, police are trained to neutralize a threat, and thats what they did. This is not the movies where they use some fancy karate shit to disarm someone. Real life does not work that way.


----------



## Risyth (Nov 27, 2014)

Khaleesi said:


> Did the gun not look fake? It was a bb gun, did it not look like a real gun? Cops are too trigger happy these days, a 12 year old, a damn 12 year old.



*Apparently it didn't. Most BB guns I've seen look pretty real.*


----------



## kidgogeta (Nov 27, 2014)

Lol making assumptions. I hate kids. I just know how to weigh the value of human life vs the threat level the officers were dealing with, which was very low assuming they were fucking trained.


----------



## Chelydra (Nov 27, 2014)

kidgogeta said:


> Lol making assumptions. I don't even like kids I just know how to weigh the value of human life vs the threat level the officers were dealing with, which was very low assuming they were fucking trained.



Any child knows, or should know that waving a gun around in public is _wrong_ they also know or should know to immediately comply with police orders. 

Hell most elementary schools also teach this shit, alone with the  and have officers some in and tell them how to behave when dealing with police, and guns, admittedly the presentation is basic, but for children its enough.


----------



## kidgogeta (Nov 27, 2014)

Where do you live man? It can't be in America.


----------



## God (Nov 27, 2014)

There's tasers, spray, and non-lethal firearm use. This could've been avoided and I blame the adults, who should've handled the situation with more apprehension.\


----------



## Chelydra (Nov 27, 2014)

kidgogeta said:


> Where do you live man? It can't be in America.



Indeed it was.  In 5th grade we even had the military land an Apache gunship on our football field and they had a Q&A session. It was amazing, had no idea that the paint would actually abrade your skin if you ran your fingers along the side.


----------



## Risyth (Nov 27, 2014)

Cubey said:


> There's tasers, spray, and non-lethal firearm use. This could've been avoided and I blame the adults, who should've handled the situation with more apprehension.\



*How far away were they? Non-lethal firearms are out of the question.*


----------



## Narutossss (Nov 27, 2014)

wow the black kids keep getting younger. fucking murika


----------



## Ashi (Nov 27, 2014)

I'm assuming the 12 year old's the bigger idiot here


----------



## Bungee Gum (Nov 27, 2014)

Risyth said:


> *How far away were they? Non-lethal firearms are out of the question.*



THey may not have had anything but actual firearms on them at the time. Was that stated?

Also the gun looked real, hell, most toy guns do. Had a dart gun, a bunch of black people from across my street gathered outside my house at night with baseball bats because they thought i stole their soccer ball from their kid, which I didnt. Ran inside and took out my dart gun and pointed at them and they all ran away. Never fucked with me again, so yeah, fake guns look pretty damn real.

I find this kind of ridiculous, i mean, right after Ferguson, there's going to be another huge media shitstorm about a black victim? what is this? Every time a black person dies by a white cop we're going to have a shitstorm that lasts 6+ months. I'm really glad America has its shit together and is not being pointless distracted by non-issues, oh wait, just kidding


----------



## NeoTerraKnight (Nov 27, 2014)

TensaXZangetsu said:


> I'm assuming the 12 year old's the bigger idiot here



You didn't watch the video, have you?


----------



## NeoTerraKnight (Nov 27, 2014)

Risyth said:


> *How far away were they? Non-lethal firearms are out of the question.*



10 feet apart.


----------



## God (Nov 27, 2014)

Which is a perfectly reasonable distance to shoot for the leg or shoulder.


----------



## IchLiebe (Nov 27, 2014)

Chelydra said:


> Indeed it was.  In 5th grade we even had the military land an Apache gunship on our football field and they had a Q&A session. It was amazing, had no idea that the paint would actually abrade your skin if you ran your fingers along the side.



That shit was badass. We had 2 come to our school for Veterans' day. Everyone was just mesmerized. No one gave two shits about going to the ceremony after seeing an Apache just sitting there. Have always wantd to fly a helicopter ever sense.


----------



## Xiammes (Nov 27, 2014)

Cubey said:


> Which is a perfectly reasonable distance to shoot for the leg or shoulder.



How many fucking times do we have to go over this, you never deliberately shoot a limb, you always 100% always shoot to kill, aim for center of mass and fire enough shots to put the target down. Shooting a limb can be just as leathal as aiming for center of mass, especially something like the shoulder or leg, the only difference is shooting for the leg you are less likely to hit unless you aim, which if you have time to aim your shot, you don't have a justifiable use of deadly force.


----------



## blueblip (Nov 27, 2014)

Welp, video of the shooting has come out, and it pretty much looks like the cops lied about the encounter. They shot the kid literally two seconds (seriously, you can count it!) after arriving at the scene, which goes against their statement saying they asked him to put his hands up first.



> *Tamir Rice shooting: Police release video showing 12-year-old being shot ? seconds after officers arrive*
> 
> _IAN JOHNSTON   Wednesday 26 November 2014_
> 
> ...


*Source:* http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...ot-seconds-after-officers-arrive-9886059.html

Video is available in the link.

And holy fuck, but whoever that cop is, he's trigger happy to a fatal point!


----------



## Xiammes (Nov 27, 2014)

It might be because my computer is shit, but the stop frame shit leaves much to be desired.


----------



## God (Nov 27, 2014)

Xiammes said:


> How many fucking times do we have to go over this,* you never deliberately shoot a limb, you always 100% always shoot to kill, aim for center of mass and fire enough shots to put the target down.* Shooting a limb can be just as leathal as aiming for center of mass, especially something like the shoulder or leg, the only difference is shooting for the leg you are less likely to hit unless you aim, which if you have time to aim your shot, you don't have a justifiable use of deadly force.



Which is fucking retarded because it's lethal force. He could have shot the shoulder and the kid might not have died.


----------



## Xiammes (Nov 27, 2014)

Cubey said:


> Which is fucking retarded because it's lethal force. He could have shot the shoulder and the kid might not have died.



No its not fucking retarded, you have a major artery in the leg and shoulder. There is no such thing as a non lethal shot, a gun is not a tool to disarm or handicap someone, it is a weapon designed to kill.

It is always shoot to kill, regardless of who it is, its the law for a reason.


----------



## God (Nov 27, 2014)

Xiammes said:


> No its not fucking retarded, you have a major artery in the leg and shoulder. There is no such thing as a non lethal shot, a gun is not a tool to disarm or handicap someone, it is a weapon designed to kill.
> 
> It is always shoot to kill, regardless of who it is, its the law for a reason.



But some shots are more lethal than others. So why wouldnt you shoot to harm?

And the fact that cops always shoot to kill is the reason why they're.. killing everyone.


----------



## Xiammes (Nov 27, 2014)

Cubey said:


> But some shots are more lethal than others. So why wouldnt you shoot to harm?
> 
> And the fact that cops always shoot to kill is the reason why they're.. killing everyone.



Shoot to kill is the law, it keeps firearms as weapons, not as tools to diffuse a situations.


----------



## God (Nov 27, 2014)

Xiammes said:


> Shoot to kill is the law, it keeps firearms as weapons, not as tools to diffuse a situations.



Which is the exact problem.


----------



## Wesley (Nov 27, 2014)

What we really need is the ability to punch someone from 50 meters away.

Anyway, did this kid die?


----------



## Narutossss (Nov 27, 2014)

blueblip said:


> Welp, video of the shooting has come out, and it pretty much looks like the cops lied about the encounter. They shot the kid literally two seconds (seriously, you can count it!) after arriving at the scene, which goes against their statement saying they asked him to put his hands up first.
> 
> *Source:* http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...ot-seconds-after-officers-arrive-9886059.html
> 
> ...



the police lied? what a surprise.... wait nope it's not.


----------



## HaxHax (Nov 27, 2014)

Should've had a real gun to defend himself with.


----------



## blueblip (Nov 27, 2014)

Xiammes said:


> Shoot to kill is the law, it keeps firearms as weapons, not as tools to diffuse a situations.


While I agree with you on the point that firearms are meant to kill, they should also be used by cops either as a last resort or when there is undeniable evidence to someone being dangerous.

In this, for instance, the use of firearms was completely unjustified. This is made amply clear by security camera footage.


----------



## Unlosing Ranger (Nov 27, 2014)

Xiammes said:


> Shoot to kill is the law, it keeps firearms as weapons, not as tools to diffuse a situations.



Guns>>> Nukes ?


----------



## brolmes (Nov 27, 2014)

Cubey said:


> Which is a perfectly reasonable distance to shoot for the leg or shoulder.



another case of too many video games and movies

>aim for a tiny non-lethal area on a moving target 
>miss 90% of the time 
>it doesn't stop them shooting you
>die

>aim for a tiny non-lethal area on a moving target
>hit 10% of the time
>it doesn't stop them shooting you
>die


----------



## Alicia (Nov 27, 2014)

blueblip said:


> Welp, video of the shooting has come out, and it pretty much looks like the cops lied about the encounter. They shot the kid literally two seconds (seriously, you can count it!) after arriving at the scene, which goes against their statement saying they asked him to put his hands up first.
> 
> *Source:* http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...ot-seconds-after-officers-arrive-9886059.html
> 
> ...



The footage is cut right after the officer exits the police car. This doesn't show how long it took for the officer to shoot.


----------



## God (Nov 27, 2014)

brolmes said:


> another case of too many video games and movies
> 
> >aim for a tiny non-lethal area on a moving target
> >miss 90% of the time
> ...



The shoulder area isn't what I would call tiny. Plus, the injury would be enough to rush them as it hinders their ability to handle the weapon correctly.


----------



## Alicia (Nov 27, 2014)

Cubey said:


> The shoulder area isn't what I would call tiny. Plus, the injury would be enough to rush them as it hinders their ability to handle the weapon correctly.



If you miss, you could shoot them in the chest, which would be a lot more lethal imo.

But hey, who am I to tell you this stuff, I've never handled a firearm before.


----------



## brolmes (Nov 27, 2014)

too many movies

you realize that if it doesn't work the cop dies right

as in... he is dead

no continues

and the area where you won't hit anything important and will still disable the arm is probably smaller than a 2 litre bottle, on a 12 year old kid it's even tinier

 have you ever tried to shoot a bottle somebody threw.. or any moving target outside of a game

it's hard enough when it's moving steadily in one direction, nevermind bobbing around all unpredictably

it would be one of the most retarded things anybody could ever gamble their life on

and i guess i'll say that again cause it seems to just be instantly forgotten.. the cop dies if it doesn't work.. which is why he's shooting them in the first place


----------



## Hwon (Nov 27, 2014)

Daftvirgin said:


> The footage is cut right after the officer exits the police car. This doesn't show how long it took for the officer to shoot.



The article edited the shooting out.  The full video is released and it literally shows the cop car rushing right up to him and the passenger side cop firing immediately upon stepping out (2 frames).

The apologetics I've seen defending this kind of police action is getting disgusting.  Blaming victims for not reacting appropriately like anyone especially a 12 year old is suppose to perceive and understand the situation instantly in order not to be shot by police who have no sensible burden to justify using lethal force is beyond absurd.


----------



## blueblip (Nov 27, 2014)

Daftvirgin said:


> The footage is cut right after the officer exits the police car. This doesn't show how long it took for the officer to shoot.





Hwon said:


> The article edited the shooting out.  The full video is released and it literally shows the cop car rushing right up to him and the passenger side cop firing immediately upon stepping out (2 frames).
> 
> The apologetics I've seen defending this kind of police action is getting disgusting.  Blaming victims for not reacting appropriately like anyone especially a 12 year old is suppose to perceive and understand the situation instantly in order not to be shot by police who have no sensible burden to justify using lethal force is beyond absurd.


This. The article left out that shooting because the rest of the video shows the boy clearly doubling over just two seconds after the cops get out of their vehicle.


----------



## HaxHax (Nov 27, 2014)

brolmes said:


> too many movies
> 
> you realize that if it doesn't work the cop dies right
> 
> ...



Then why aren't cops falling by the dozens in European countries that don't enforce a shoot first ask questions later policy?


----------



## blueblip (Nov 27, 2014)

HaxHax said:


> Then why aren't cops falling by the dozens in European countries that don't enforce a shoot first ask questions later policy?


To be fair to cops in the US, civilians there have more guns with them than they do in Europe. It's an added pressure US cops have to deal with that European ones don't.

But in this particular case, the cops were way out of line.


----------



## brolmes (Nov 27, 2014)

because they do enforce a shoot first ask questions later policy

go point a fake gun at one of your precious european armed response teams and record what happens for us


----------



## SwordKing (Nov 27, 2014)

The video does not disprove the police account. I timed it, "Put your hands up" takes only a little over a second to say.


----------



## HaxHax (Nov 27, 2014)

blueblip said:


> To be fair to cops in the US, civilians there have more guns with them than they do in Europe. It's an added pressure US cops have to deal with that European ones don't.
> 
> But in this particular case, the cops were way out of line.



But I was told that all the criminals would have guns anyway ..


----------



## olaf (Nov 27, 2014)

HaxHax said:


> Then why aren't cops falling by the dozens in European countries that don't enforce a shoot first ask questions later policy?


maybe because:


blueblip said:


> To be fair to cops in the US, civilians there have more guns with them than they do in Europe. It's an added pressure US cops have to deal with that European ones don't.





brolmes said:


> go point a fake gun at one of your precious european armed response teams and record what happens for us


Funny thing about european police, in my country when it comes to shootings and generaly apprehending armed criminals, police usualy is depicted as

- incompetent, which makes some people cry "if it was in USA they would just shoot the bastard! why can't they be so effective and well trained like US Police?!"

- abusive (and it doesn't matter if there was any abuse at all) which results in people asking "why didn't they talk to him? ask nicely? shoot him in the arm? they should be well trained like US Police!"


----------



## Hunted by sister (Nov 27, 2014)

brolmes said:


> because they do enforce a shoot first ask questions later policy


No, they fucking don't. You've never been to Europe, have you? You're dlusional.


Xiammes said:


> There is no such thing as a non lethal shot


I laughed out loud when I read this...


Wesley said:


> What we really need is the ability to punch someone from 50 meters away.


We have rubber bullets, which are very much that.

Original video:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SeoZkgjCHJ4[/youtube]
The kid is shot literally the moment the car stops (approx. 2-3 seconds at most). 

He does reach for the fake pistol, but he never gets to lift it up (or maybe he's putting it there, holstering it? video is too blurry) - for all we know he might've tried to drop it on the ground. 

This is definitely a case of unlawful use of lethal force. Basicly a murder. Watch this frame by frame, it's clear then. 

//HbS


----------



## brolmes (Nov 27, 2014)

Hunted by sister said:


> No, they fucking don't. You've never been to Europe, have you? You're dlusional.
> 
> //HbS



yeah let's do that thing again where i post links of your high and mighty german cop shooting a naked guy who has a knife

and the same shit happening in the uk

and blah blah blah

//HbS


----------



## heavy_rasengan (Nov 27, 2014)

brolmes said:


> too many movies
> 
> you realize that if it doesn't work the cop dies right
> 
> ...



Given that, many, many, police departments make it mandatory that their police officers wear bulletproof vests while on duty, it is highly unlikely that the cop would die if he misses. Furthermore, it is highly unlikely that anyone they are shooting at has had anything close to the formal, paid-for, training that they have had. Anyways, regardless of wearing a bulletproof vest or or not, don't make ridiculous false dichotomies like, "durr either he shoots to kill or he dies". I know you're a fucking idiot but at least try to make a coherent argument for once in your life.


----------



## brolmes (Nov 27, 2014)

i'm sorry that you're too dumb to understand what i mean... as always

the point is to emphasize the stakes

when you risk death if you don't do something, it's a significant enough danger to not even bother calling it a risk

because

you know

it's death

as in... being dead

"if i don't do this, i might die" is exactly the same as "if i don't do this, i will die"... because it's stakes like that that completely remove the element of choice

there is no option there, no decision to make, it's shoot the guy or die

fucking mongoloid


----------



## Hunted by sister (Nov 27, 2014)

brolmes said:


> yeah let's do that thing again where i post links of your high and mighty german cop shooting a naked guy who has a knife
> 
> and the same shit happening in the uk


Wow! One or two incidents compared to USA's daily routine! This SURELY makes things even!



Check the video out. The kid had the pistol in his pants when he was shot. I know you can love your homeland, but being a fucking retard to defend it is not a good thing, brolmes. Get a fucking reality check already.

//HbS


----------



## heavy_rasengan (Nov 27, 2014)

brolmes said:


> i'm sorry that you're too dumb to understand what i mean... as always
> 
> the point is to emphasize the stakes
> 
> ...



Changing goalposts now after getting your piss poor argument shot to shit?

Maybe try finishing highschool or taking an English class so you don't have to constantly spout, "that wasn't what I meant!" like a dumb fuck.



			
				Brolmes said:
			
		

> you realize that if it* doesn't work the cop dies right*
> 
> *as in... he is dead*



This is a false dichotomy and a conditional statement. You are stating that IF X happens then Y will be the consequence. Then you go on and change your argument after getting slapped once again. How many times do I have to mop the floor with you before you get it?



			
				Hunted_by_sister said:
			
		

> but being a fucking retard to defend it is not a good thing, brolmes.



You're being too generous here HBS. This kid is the epitome of an immature, braindead, uneducated, cretin. Quite possibly, the most retarded poster in all of Naruto Forums and as we all know, there is quite some competition in that regards.


----------



## brolmes (Nov 27, 2014)

toroxus-chan.. is that you?


----------



## heavy_rasengan (Nov 27, 2014)

Anyways, can anyone confirm if these cops were wearing BP vests or not?


----------



## brolmes (Nov 27, 2014)

if i give you a bullet proof vest will you let me shoot at you

pls

o pls


----------



## Hunted by sister (Nov 27, 2014)

heavy_rasengan said:


> You're being too generous here HBS. This kid is the epitome of an immature, braindead, uneducated, cretin. Quite possibly, the most retarded poster in all of Naruto Forums and as we all know, there is quite some competition in that regards.


I try, but he's leaving me far behind in this competition... 


heavy_rasengan said:


> Anyways, can anyone confirm if these cops were wearing BP vests or not?


I don't think so, unless they have some thin ones. On the video it looks like they're wearing only their uniforms.

//HbS


----------



## Xiammes (Nov 27, 2014)

Why would it matter if the cop had a bullet proof vest, it doesn't make it any less dangerous if the kid had a gun.


----------



## Hunted by sister (Nov 27, 2014)

Xiammes said:


> Why would it matter if the cop had a bullet proof vest, it doesn't make it any less dangerous if the kid had a gun.


I'll give you a hint - the vest is bullet proof.

//HbS


----------



## heavy_rasengan (Nov 27, 2014)

brolmes said:


> if i give you a bullet proof vest will you let me shoot at you
> 
> pls
> 
> o pls



If you give me a bullet proof vest, the same supposedly rigorous training that those cops undertake, the experience of being on the field and the inherent occupational hazard of being a police officer, then I would most definitely not shoot down a kid in a fucking playground two seconds after I tell him to put his hands up. I wouldn't do it even if I didn't have a bulletproof vest on and if I was a rookie. And if I did, then I would wonder why the fuck I'm a police officer in the first place.



			
				Xiammes said:
			
		

> Why would it matter if the cop had a bullet proof vest, it doesn't make it any less dangerous if the kid had a gun.



 Are you fucking kidding me right now? Having a BULLETPROOF vest on doesn't significantly raise your chances of you know, not dying? It doesn't make you feel safer? Oh shit, I wonder why these departments pay over a grand for each and everyone. The jokes on them right?


----------



## Xiammes (Nov 27, 2014)

Hunted by sister said:


> I'll give you a hint - the vest is bullet proof.
> 
> //HbS





> Are you fucking kidding me right now? Having a BULLETPROOF vest on doesn't significantly raise your chances of you know, not dying? It doesn't make you feel safer? Oh shit, I wonder why these departments pay over a grand for each and everyone. The jokes on them right?



I bet you think army helmets will actually block a bullet as well. Going with this naive notion, bulletproof vest only cover some of the vital area's, a shot to any of the limbs can still be life threatening. Having a bullet proof vest doesn't forfeit your right to defend yourself either.



So please shut the fuck up.


----------



## brolmes (Nov 27, 2014)

heavy_rasengan said:


> If you give me a bullet proof vest, the same supposedly rigorous training that those cops undertake, the experience of being on the field and the inherent occupational hazard of being a police officer, then I would most definitely not shoot down a kid in a fucking playground two seconds after I tell him to put his hands up. I wouldn't do it even if I didn't have a bulletproof vest on and if I was a rookie. And if I did, then I would wonder why the fuck I'm a police officer in the first place.



i'll take that as an overly convoluted and evasive "no"



Hunted by sister said:


> I'll give you a hint - the vest is bullet proof.
> 
> //HbS



hint - there's no such thing as bullet proof

//HbS


----------



## Hunted by sister (Nov 27, 2014)

Xiammes said:


> I bet you think army helmets will actually block a bullet as well.


[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=55IvD44P8DQ[/youtube]


brolmes said:


> hint - there's no such thing as bullet proof


Hint - the year is 2014, not 1814.

What the two of you think bulletproof vests are for, if not for blocking bullets? 

//HbS


----------



## heavy_rasengan (Nov 27, 2014)

Xiammes said:


> I bet you think army helmets will actually block a bullet as well. Going with this naive notion, bulletproof vest only cover some of the vital area's, a shot to any of the limbs can still be life threatening. Having a bullet proof vest doesn't forfeit your right to defend yourself either.
> 
> 
> 
> So please shut the fuck up.



Holy shit, these fucking straw-men. When the fuck did I claim that wearing a bulletproof vest will make you invincible? I only claimed that they significantly lower the chance of you dying and make you feel much safer (and thus more confident) and in response to an idiot making a false dichotomy that if the police officer doesn't shoot to kill then he will *surely* die. So shut the fuck up and read the preceding conversations before coming in here and making a fool out of yourself.

And I would imagine that a bulletproof vest would give you enough confidence in dealing with a 12 year old kid without having to resort to fatally shooting him. I would hope that the bulletproof vest wouldn't be needed for such an encounter. I mean, if you're scared, why don't you call for backup, get behind your vehicle and wait the situation out. Nah, lets just shoot the fucking kid. 



			
				brolmes said:
			
		

> i'll take that as an overly convoluted and evasive "no"



You can take it as whatever you want since you lack the ability to comprehend English at even the basic level.


----------



## brolmes (Nov 27, 2014)

Xiammes said:


> I bet you think army helmets will actually block a bullet as well. Going with this naive notion, bulletproof vest only cover some of the vital area's, a shot to any of the limbs can still be life threatening. Having a bullet proof vest doesn't forfeit your right to defend yourself either.
> 
> 
> 
> So please shut the fuck up.



yeah.. even a shot in the thigh = death

OH WAIT SORRY HEAVY RASENGAN

a shot in the thigh can = death.. because there's a huge difference when deciding whether or not to let someone hit you with a fatal wound or a potentially fatal wound

also a shot on any limb can ricochet inside the body and it happens a lot

there are also pistol calibers capable of going right through armor rated for pistols

and any rifle will act like it isn't even there.. not that that's relevant here but yeah


----------



## brolmes (Nov 27, 2014)

Hunted by sister said:


> [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=55IvD44P8DQ[/youtube]
> 
> Hint - the year is 2014, not 1814.
> 
> ...



hint - shut the fuck up

every gun related thread you get yourself into just winds up with you talking a mesmerizing amount of horse shit on a subject you've been repeatedly proven to know nothing about

//HbS


----------



## brolmes (Nov 27, 2014)

>2014

1930s pistol

[youtube]FTg-TgEpUm0[/youtube]

a herpa derpa allahuakbar


----------



## heavy_rasengan (Nov 27, 2014)

brolmes said:


> yeah.. even a shot in the thigh = death
> 
> OH WAIT SORRY HEAVY RASENGAN
> 
> ...



None of which disproves my point that BP vest *significantly lower your chances of death*. That is the only claim I made. Are you guys done arguing with non-existent straw-men?


----------



## brolmes (Nov 27, 2014)

be quiet toroxus

bad kitty

don't make me get the spray bottle


----------



## heavy_rasengan (Nov 27, 2014)

brolmes said:


> be quiet toroxus
> 
> bad kitty
> 
> don't make me get the spray bottle



When all else fails. Accuse him of being someone else to make yourself feel better about getting shat on. You play the pleb rulebook like a pro. Too bad that's the only compliment I can give you since you're so damn incompetent. 

"Durr if the cop doesn't shoot to kill, HE WILL DIE!" 

Fucking braindead.


----------



## brolmes (Nov 27, 2014)

nice strawman


----------



## heavy_rasengan (Nov 27, 2014)

brolmes said:


> nice strawman



Oh shit, be proud of yourself, you learned a new term today. Except that you didn't use it properly. But I guess we'll take it in small steps.



			
				Brolmes said:
			
		

> you realize that *if it doesn't work the cop dies right*
> *as in... he is dead*





			
				brolmes said:
			
		

> and i guess i'll say that again cause it seems to just be instantly forgotten.. *the cop dies if it doesn't work.. which is why he's shooting them in the first place*



Now i'll watch you squirm as you backpedal and change goalposts: "b-b-but that's not what I meant Heavy! You know I'm too fucking stupid to actually SAY what I MEAN!"


----------



## Rax (Nov 27, 2014)

Pointing guns at cops is a bad idea, folks


----------



## brolmes (Nov 27, 2014)

heavy_rasengan said:


> Oh shit, be proud of yourself, you learned a new term today. Except that you didn't use it properly. But I guess we'll take it in small steps.



ahahaha the irony



heavy_rasengan said:


> Now i'll watch you squirm as you backpedal and change goalposts: "b-b-but that's not what I meant Heavy! You know I'm too fucking stupid to actually SAY what I MEAN!"



this sounds like circular red herring reasoning

2 wrongs fallacy detected

the eagle flies south over the rummaging bear forest


----------



## heavy_rasengan (Nov 27, 2014)

Rax said:


> Pointing guns at cops is a bad idea, folks



Who pointed a gun at cops?


----------



## Xiammes (Nov 27, 2014)

> Holy shit, these fucking straw-men. When the fuck did I claim that wearing a bulletproof vest will make you invincible? I only claimed that they significantly lower the chance of you dying and make you feel much safer (and thus more confident) and in response to an idiot making a false dichotomy that if the police officer doesn't shoot to kill then he will surely die. So shut the fuck up and read the preceding conversations before coming in here and making a fool out of yourself.
> 
> And I would imagine that a bulletproof vest would give you enough confidence in dealing with a 12 year old kid without having to resort to fatally shooting him. I would hope that the bulletproof vest wouldn't be needed for such an encounter. I mean, if you're scared, why don't you call for backup, get behind your vehicle and wait the situation out. Nah, lets just shoot the fucking kid.



I'll say this again, wearing a bullet proof vest does not forfeit your right to defend yourself, no matter what any bleeding heart will say. No I wouldn't feel confident in taking on anyone with a gun, even if I did have a bullet proof vest, shit happens and I am not risking my life to try and take down a armed kid. 

Assuming the exchange did last all of 2 seconds, that's enough time to tell the kid to put his hands up and for him to surrender, instead he supposedly started reaching for his gun, at that point he was dangerous, not only to him but anyone around.

I am not too satisfied with the video released, he could have very well have opened fire but I can't tell shit.


----------



## heavy_rasengan (Nov 27, 2014)

brolmes said:


> ahahaha the irony
> 
> 
> 
> ...



When all else fails, make a fool out of yourself in order to attract sympathy. At least this time you're *intentionally* saying stupid shit.


----------



## brolmes (Nov 27, 2014)

"appeal to novelty" fallacy detected

stop being so fallacious torokun


----------



## Hunted by sister (Nov 27, 2014)

Rax said:


> Pointing guns at cops is a bad idea, folks


Watch the video. When the kid was shot, the gun was in his pants.

//HbS


----------



## heavy_rasengan (Nov 27, 2014)

Xiammes said:


> I'll say this again, wearing a bullet proof vest does not forfeit your right to defend yourself, no matter what any bleeding heart will say. No I wouldn't feel confident in taking on anyone with a gun, even if I did have a bullet proof vest, shit happens and I am not risking my life to try and take down a armed kid.
> 
> Assuming the exchange did last all of 2 seconds, that's enough time to tell the kid to put his hands up and for him to surrender, instead he supposedly started reaching for his gun, at that point he was dangerous, not only to him but anyone around.
> 
> I am not too satisfied with the video released, he could have very well have opened fire but I can't tell shit.



You're not a cop, no shit you won't feel confident in doing it. I would hope that cops have enough training and discipline to be confident enough in dealing with dangerous matters, especially when the matter involves a 12 year old kid. Having a BP vest is just a bonus at this point. 

two *seconds* is enough time for a 12 year old kid? Are you even reading what you're typing? Don't put yourself into the situation, put a 12 year old kid in the situation. I know that my 11 year old little brother would be nervous as fuck (and he could quite possibly show off a fake gun at school because he's a kid and kids are stupid) and not know what to do let alone be well read on the fucking police manual. 

The police could have very well called for backup if they didn't think they could deal with the situation, have you ever thought of that? If they went under the assumption that his gun was real (even though the caller said its probably fake) then they should go in if they have enough confidence to deal with or call for backup if they don't. Furthermore, the kid didn't physically or verbally threaten them, he probably thought that they were there because of the gun and he was taking it out to show them it was fake or w/e.


----------



## brolmes (Nov 27, 2014)

heavy_rasengan said:


> You're not a cop, no shit you won't feel confident in doing it.



ad hominem

pls get an education


----------



## Hunted by sister (Nov 27, 2014)

brolmes said:


> ad hominem
> 
> pls get an education


> implying a basement warrior like brolmes or Xiam~ has the same level of confidence and is as competent as a police officer after years of training

Bitch, please. And the fact is that bulletproof vests DO provide some protection, after all, they are not just for show. 

Also, not all shots are lethal. Whoever thinks that is a god damn moron who plays too much CoD. Of course, a brainshot or a shot to upper spinal column a will kill you instantly (not necessarily!), a hit to a critical artery (contrary to a popular opinion they are hard to hit) will make you bleed out in minutes (anyone trained in first-aid, like a police officer, can hold you alive until medics arrive), but usually a gunshot means plenty of time (15+ minutes, with few exceptions) to be saved, even if you get hit in a vital organ. If the gunshot victim is alive when admitted to hospital, there is a *67%* chance that he'll survive. That's just a bit more than two-thirds. People who were shot and are not treated almost always die from *blood loss*.

Hell, there are people who took 20+ bullets (in one go) and survived (i.e. Joseph Guzman)

And watch the fucking video. The kid is bleeding out on the ground 3 seconds after the police car stops. The pistol in his pants. 

Anyone who thinks he had enough time to react or think through the situation is fucking delusional, and anyone who's trying to justify the cop's actions is FUBAR in the head. 

Oh gee, I wonder where Mael went. 

//HbS


----------



## Xiammes (Nov 27, 2014)

heavy_rasengan said:


> You're not a cop, no shit you won't feel confident in doing it. I would hope that cops have enough training and discipline to be confident enough in dealing with dangerous matters, especially when the matter involves a 12 year old kid. Having a BP vest is just a bonus at this point.
> 
> two *seconds* is enough time for a 12 year old kid? Are you even reading what you're typing? Don't put yourself into the situation, put a 12 year old kid in the situation. I know that my 11 year old little brother would be nervous as fuck (and he could quite possibly show off a fake gun at school because he's a kid and kids are stupid) and not know what to do let alone be well read on the fucking police manual.
> 
> The police could have very well called for backup if they didn't think they could deal with the situation, have you ever thought of that? If they went under the assumption that his gun was real (even though the caller said its probably fake) then they should go in if they have enough confidence to deal with or call for backup if they don't. Furthermore, the kid didn't physically or verbally threaten them, he probably thought that they were there because of the gun and he was taking it out to show them it was fake or w/e.



I don't anyone would feel competent in apprehending someone with a fire arm, cop or no. Having a bullet proof vest has no bearing on the situation what so ever.

Officer pulls up, you know your in trouble, instead of complying with the officer when told to put his hands up, first thing he does is try to reach for his weapon. I don't know about you, when I was 12 years old I was scared as shit of the police and wouldn't think about trying to do anything to disobey them. 

Calling for backup is not a solution, the kid is armed, was willing to reach for his weapon when being apprehended by the police. The kid was dangerous to passerby's, you saw in the video there was a guy walking down the sidewalk when the police cruiser showed up. 

The kid did something dumb, and the police officer responded appropriately. Did the kid deserve to die? No he didn't but I wouldn't fault the officer for doing things by the book. Shit happens, I'm trying to withhold my judgement for now because the video is absolutely shit.


----------



## Chainwave (Nov 27, 2014)

2 Things.

Cop wasn't actually told that the gun was fake. The dispatcher never mentioned this to the cop.

Cop thought the kid was around 20, not 12, according to the report he gave right after the shooting.


----------



## Hunted by sister (Nov 27, 2014)

Chainwave said:


> 2 Things.
> 
> Cop wasn't actually told that the gun was fake. The dispatcher never mentioned this to the cop.


That's a lie. 


Chainwave said:


> Cop thought the kid was around 20, not 12, according to the report he gave right after the shooting.


That's stupid.

But hey, whatever it takes to cover one's ass.

//HbS


----------



## brolmes (Nov 27, 2014)

Hunted by sister said:


> > implying a basement warrior like brolmes or Xiam~ has the same level of confidence and is as competent as a police officer after years of training
> 
> Bitch, please. And the fact is that bulletproof vests DO provide some protection, after all, they are not just for show.
> 
> ...



read the first line and stopped because it was offensive

this is no way for an adult to try to get their point across

//HbS


----------



## Hunted by sister (Nov 27, 2014)

Nice try. "I can't answer his arguments so I'll ignore everything". A typical behavior of a spoiled, 10-year old child. You're as transparent as clear water, bro

also 
> implying you haven't been offensive

//HbS


----------



## heavy_rasengan (Nov 27, 2014)

Xiammes said:


> I don't anyone would feel competent in apprehending someone with a fire arm, cop or no.
> Officer pulls up, you know your in trouble, instead of complying with the officer when told to put his hands up, first thing he does is try to reach for his weapon. I don't know about you, when I was 12 years old I was scared as shit of the police and wouldn't think about trying to do anything to disobey them.



Cool story bro, let's stop acting like your experience as a 12 year old kid is something universal that applies to all kids. You're not very rational when you are 12. You can't vote when you're 12. You can't drive a car when you're 12. You can't be tried as an adult when you're 12. Etc. But expecting a 12 year old kid to act as rationally as yourself in that situation somehow makes sense. Right. 




> Calling for backup is not a solution, the kid is armed, was willing to reach for his weapon when being apprehended by the police. The kid was dangerous to passerby's, you saw in the video there was a guy walking down the sidewalk when the police cruiser showed up.



If you're scared of being shot at by a 12 year old kid then yes, you should call for backup. The kid had that gun the entire day at school and was waving it around the entire day (a fake gun) but right then and there he was suddenly dangerous to pedestrians passing by. Right. The job of policing is an occupational hazard, you should be prepared to deal with these situations, not cower. And making stupid statements like: "durr well I wouldn't have been confident" is nonsensical because it defeats the entire purpose of having fucking police officers. 



> Having a bullet proof vest has no bearing on the situation what so ever.



Again, stop making retarded statements. It most definitely has a bearing on the situation which is why police officers fucking wear it. Am I losing my mind here? If having a bullet proof vest HAS NO BEARING on a situation then WHY on earth do so many police officers WEAR IT? It should at the very least give you enough confidence in dealing with a child regardless if his gun is real or not. 



> Although officers know the benefits of wearing soft body armor, many still choose not to wear it. Officers often complain about the comfort, fit, and breathability of the vest, especially in the warmer months. Research has shown that between 1980 and 2001 approximately 1,200 officers have been killed in the line of duty. More than 30 percent could have been saved by body armor. The save percentage is even higher when evaluating felonious assaults involving firearms. *It is estimated that the risk of dying from gunfire is 14 times higher for an officer not wearing a ballistic vest than for one who is.2*









> _The kid did something dumb, and the police officer responded appropriately._ Did the kid deserve to die? No he didn't but I wouldn't fault the officer for doing things by the book. Shit happens, *I'm trying to withhold my judgement for now because the video is absolutely shit.*



Its hard to take you seriously when you contradict yourself in the very same paragraph.


----------



## brolmes (Nov 27, 2014)

i already pointed out how wrong you are a billion times

we've been over your ignorance regarding tasers, your ignorance regarding a police officer's need to defend his non-video-game life, your ignorance regarding body armor 

my super mature and inoffensive arguments are flawless and all you ever do is come back and say the same old dumb shit over and over

you uneducated ruffian

//HbS


----------



## Hunted by sister (Nov 27, 2014)

brolmes said:


> i already pointed out how wrong you are a billion times
> 
> we've been over your ignorance regarding tasers, your ignorance regarding a police officer's need to defend his non-video-game life, your ignorance regarding body armor
> 
> ...




//HbS


----------



## brolmes (Nov 27, 2014)

Nice try. "I can't answer his arguments so I'll ignore everything". A typical behavior of a spoiled, 10-year old child. You're as transparent as clear water, bro

//HbS


----------



## Robin (Nov 27, 2014)

didn't read the thread, but am I the only one who thinks the kid freaking deserved it???  Most of these police accidents happen because people fail to listen to their commands. The police have their own life to protect, so they rather shoot you than be shot. There would be less victims if people just respect the police. I'm not saying that the police is never wrong. I'm just saying, put your hands up, don't move and make the policeman believe you're not a threat to him, and that's how you don't get shot, usually.


----------



## Hunted by sister (Nov 27, 2014)

Nico Robin said:


> didn't read the thread, but am I the only one who thinks the kid freaking deserved it???  Most of these police accidents happen because people fail to listen to their commands. The police have their own life to protect, so they rather shoot you than be shot. There would be less victims if people just respect the police. I'm not saying that the police is never wrong. I'm just saying, put your hands up, don't move and make the policeman believe you're not a threat to him, and that's how you don't get shot, usually.


He never got a chance to react. The rookie officer shot him even before the driver got out of the police car. Basicly the car stopped, rookie opened doors and immediatly fired.


brolmes said:


> Nice try. "I can't answer his arguments so I'll ignore everything". A typical behavior of a spoiled, 10-year old child. You're as transparent as clear water, bro


 

//HbS


----------



## Narutossss (Nov 27, 2014)




----------



## Seto Kaiba (Nov 27, 2014)

Chainwave said:


> 2 Things.
> 
> Cop wasn't actually told that the gun was fake. The dispatcher never mentioned this to the cop.
> 
> Cop thought the kid was around 20, not 12, according to the report he gave right after the shooting.



how the fuck do you mistake a 12-year old, especially this kid, with a 20-year old?

I was trying to be and am a bit understanding that yeah, waving around a bb gun with the orange stopper removed is going to legitimately freak him out and he'd respond. Yet if he really shot the kid in two seconds of seeing him, and is seriously trying to tell people he confused this kid with a 20-year old, I cannot say anyone is going to be as understanding here.


----------



## SLB (Nov 27, 2014)

actually, i'm not so concerned with the mistaken age after watching the whole video. the disconnect happens while he's calling for help after the kid was shot, so pure shock at what happened could easily override the sensibility of what went down there.

however, the dispatcher not relaying exactly what the 911 caller said is the real concern. the police were not at all made to believe the gun could be fake. i'm not saying that would change the outcome, but it's something that should be given to the officers that arrive on scene. 

also the full testimony from the chief is that the kid pulled the weapon out after being told to "show his hands" and drop the weapon. this kind of confuses me because following that order based on that testimony would mean that he would actually need to remove the weapon from his person, which would mean drawing it. 

him being 12, he might have just ignored the show his hands part and went to drop the weapon.


----------



## Robin (Nov 27, 2014)

Hunted by sister said:


> He never got a chance to react. The rookie officer shot him even before the driver got out of the police car. Basicly the car stopped, rookie opened doors and immediatly fired.



oh wow then this is one of those cases


----------



## brolmes (Nov 27, 2014)

Hunted by sister said:


> //HbS



hey

i'm pretty upset that you're posting a gif of some ugly girl to make fun of how upset i am about you posting the other picture with all the yapping

pls refrain

//HbS


----------



## Hunted by sister (Nov 27, 2014)

Seto Kaiba said:


> I was trying to be and am a bit understanding that yeah, waving around a bb gun with the orange stopper removed is going to legitimately freak him out and he'd respond. Yet if he really shot the kid in two seconds of seeing him, and is seriously trying to tell people he confused this kid with a 20-year old, I cannot say anyone is going to be as understanding here.





Nico Robin said:


> oh wow then this is one of those cases


[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SeoZkgjCHJ4[/youtube]
The kid is shot literally the moment the car stops (approx. 2-3 seconds at most).


Moody said:


> however, the dispatcher not relaying exactly what the 911 caller said is the real concern. the police were not at all made to believe the gun could be fake. i'm not saying that would change the outcome, but it's something that should be given to the officers that arrive on scene.
> 
> also the full testimony from the chief is that the kid pulled the weapon out after being told to "show his hands" and drop the weapon. this kind of confuses me because following that order based on that testimony would mean that he would actually need to remove the weapon from his person, which would mean drawing it.


All lies. They lied about how the encounter went down, they lied about the kid drawing the pistol, they are probably lying about the dispatcher.

A fucking trigger-happy rookie who watched too many action movies. Did you notice on the video how he does a run-shoot-jump_to_ground move that's useful only in Max Payne and bullet-time movies? That's how he hurt his ankle

//HbS


----------



## SLB (Nov 27, 2014)

you can hear the dispatcher for yourself

and honestly... yeah. that's a quick chain of events and i'm not seeing a lot of room for someone to comply with the orders. the orders themselves being a little muddy in what they seem to want the kid to do. 

something feels slightly off.


----------



## Hunted by sister (Nov 27, 2014)

@bro
Your tears are delicious. Cry another river


Moody said:


> you can hear the dispatcher for yourself


I've definitely heard "it's probably fake, but he's scaring people". Could you link, please? Maybe I'm thinking of a different call.

//HbS


----------



## SLB (Nov 27, 2014)

the CNN link from chainwave

has the dispatcher's full audio as they relay the info to the cops


----------



## Hunted by sister (Nov 27, 2014)

That's a fatal mistake on dispatcher's side, Jesus...

//HbS


----------



## heavy_rasengan (Nov 27, 2014)

Not to mention how fucking tactless these police officers were. You don't drive your car straight beside an "armed suspect" and get out while its moving and then fucking call out instructions when they can easily be drowned out by the noise of the car or simply the sheer speed of the events unfolding. It doesn't matter if he was 12 with a fake gun or 24 with a real gun, this isn't procedure. 

It looked like the kid was walking towards to police car to go and hand over the gun. I hadn't seen the video before but now that I see it, I can't understand how people are defending their actions or claiming that it was appropriate behaviour.

There were honestly so many different ways that this could have been resolved without that kid being shot.

1. Don't drive into the scene like a retard. They could have easily hovered about (like most cops do) and examined the situation and then decide on what to do.

2. If you fear for your life, call for backup

3. Pull up beside the kid slowly, while you're still in your car and give instructions from the car

4. Here in Canada, most police vehicles are equipped with a PA system, I'm not sure if its the same case there but if it is, use it. 

etc.


----------



## Hunted by sister (Nov 27, 2014)

Note the lack of red and blue lights. They are turned off.

//HbS


----------



## Deputy Myself (Nov 27, 2014)

wow yeah that's murder.
Jail the idiot


----------



## NeoTerraKnight (Nov 28, 2014)

Motherfuckers... 4 minutes they led the boy bleed out without First Aid treatment. His death was avoidable.


----------



## Deleted member 235437 (Nov 28, 2014)

Interesting to see if this becomes the next Michael Brown, imo it should be bigger since he was 12, death could have been avoided and the cop is to blame.


----------



## Risyth (Nov 28, 2014)

*So have either been indicted yet?


--There's nothing interesting about this.*


----------



## Мoon (Nov 28, 2014)

> A concerned man, who was sat nearby, called 911 and told the dispatcher: 'I’m sitting in the park…there’s a guy in here with a pistol, and it’s probably a fake one, but he’s pointing it at everybody.


A concerned man? A man would have taken action on his own accord.

I remember days of middle school ,where me and my two friends would play in the backyard with airsoft guns. Then one day my friend got mad at me for shooting his head and causing him to have a "pacman" dent on his forehead, and sprayed his AK airsoft gun at me, metal pellets hitting the mini slide i was using as cover. Then one of those metal pellets ricocheted off the slide and hit my friends dads dog in the eye.

30 minutes later were still playing like nothing happened, and his dad comes home, sees the dog walking around the house with a metal pellet in his eyeball, along with other bruises from the pellets, and goes to the backyard, takes all of our airsoft guns and tells me and my other friend to gtfo.

My friend got the belt that night. 

This is what a man truly does , he takes action and disciplines a child and teaches the kid how or when to use something like an airsoft gun in public. The "concerned" man could have easily handled the situation by taking the airsoft gun from the kid and explaining why instilling fear to other children is wrong.

As for the police shooting the kid, I gotta say, I'm not surprised. They'd shoot anyone they'd like for no reason and will receive a "get out of jail free" card with two days of suspension or some shit.


----------



## Deleted member 235437 (Nov 28, 2014)

Did the "concerned" man not let the dispatchers know that the kid looked 12 or at the very least young for his age? Using the word "guy" could make him seem much older than 12


----------



## Мoon (Nov 28, 2014)

Khaleesi said:


> Did the "concerned" man not let the dispatchers know that the kid looked 12 or at the very least young for his age? Using the word "guy" could make him seem much older than 12


Exactly,
According to what some posted here, the cop thought the kid was 20 or something.

The moment a dispatcher hears the word gun, depending on how lazy the dispatcher is and how stupid the person on the receiver end is, they'll have a two man unit dispatched to the location of the call.


----------



## Jeαnne (Nov 28, 2014)

damn man :/


----------



## blueblip (Dec 4, 2014)

So it turns out that the officer who shot the 12 year old was declared unfit for duty in 2012. Like, emotionally breaking down and shouldn't even be a cop unfit.



> *Officer who fatally shot Tamir Rice judged unfit for duty by police in 2012*
> _Timothy Loehmann criticised by small Ohio force for breaking down while handling live gun and his performance was called ‘dismal’, records show
> 
> Tom McCarthy in New York_
> ...


*Source:* http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...fatally-shot-tamir-rice-had-been-judged-unfit

Why the fuck did the Cleveland force even hire this guy?? He sounds like he needs to work someplace...quiet. Really, really quiet.


----------



## Hunted by sister (Dec 4, 2014)

I.... have no words this time. Wow. And people are trying to justify police having military-grade equipment, too. 

//HbS


----------



## TheCupOfBrew (Dec 4, 2014)

Hunted by sister said:


> I don't even have to say anything...
> 
> One thing. What the fuck happened to tasering people?
> 
> //HbS



Tasering someone who may be wielding a deadly weapon.

Brilliant  

//Hbs


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## Seto Kaiba (Dec 4, 2014)

Jesus fuck. Well that doesn't surprise me, I've seen some cops that seem so on edge you'd swear they were on drugs or something.


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## Subarashii (Dec 4, 2014)

> Officer who fatally shot Tamir Rice judged unfit for duty by police in 2012
> *“Due to this dangerous loss of composure during live range training and his inability to manage this personal stress, I do not believe Ptl Loehmann shows the maturity needed to work in our employment,” Polak concludes. “For these reasons, I am recommending he be released from the employment of the city of Independence. I do not believe time, nor training, will be able to change or correct these deficiencies.” *



The end.
Game over.
The hiring manager should be fired and this whole department needs to take accountability.  How could they let this guy "slip through the cracks" with all those red flags?


Put him in front of a grand jury and watch that indictment wither away like that young boy's body


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