# How does One Piece compete against HxH and FMAB?



## Mikon (Jul 4, 2015)

What do you think? Is it better?


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## PwnGoatVSPandaman (Jul 4, 2015)

Worse than both, One Piece is average at best and meh at it's worst.

The other two series aren't top series either but better than one piece.


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## Mikon (Jul 4, 2015)

How is One Piece average at best...?


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## PwnGoatVSPandaman (Jul 4, 2015)

It doesn't do anything beyond average, it's just completely average across the board. It also is dragged down by a lot. It has a lot of characters, that's about it for having more than other series.

Other series are simply better by leaps and bounds.

I mean Naruto and Bleach are next to trash.


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## Rob (Jul 4, 2015)

FMAB is considered by most to be the best Shounen ever created. 

That being said it's hard to compare OP to other series to do it's length. 

As of late OP has been pretty shitty too. HxH and FMAB stomp current OP. 

But I was in love with Prime-OP. Man I miss that shit. Easily my favorite.


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## Mikon (Jul 4, 2015)

What about the characters? the world building? the action? drama? comedy? One Piece has a lot from everything and lot of a good stuff


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## PwnGoatVSPandaman (Jul 4, 2015)

Roƅ said:


> FMAB is considered by most to be the best Shounen ever created.
> 
> That being said it's hard to compare OP to other series to do it's length.
> 
> ...



A large majority of people would consider Nicki Minaj the best rapper ever, argumentum ad populum isn't a solid argument.


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## Rob (Jul 4, 2015)

PwnGoatVSPandaman said:


> A large majority of people would consider Nicki Minaj the best rapper ever, argumentum ad populum isn't a solid argument.



Yes, and a lot of people consider Naruto the best. I get  your point. 

But the lover :: Hater ratio for garbage like Nicki Minaj and Naruto is far shittier than that of FMAB.


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## PwnGoatVSPandaman (Jul 4, 2015)

Mikon said:


> What about the characters? the world building? the action? drama? comedy? One Piece has a lot from everything and lot of a good stuff



What's special about the characters? Other series give characters far more depth and interesting personalities, there are visual standouts but none of the characters are really that great. 
World building? What world building? There are pirates, there are marines, and there are a few pirate ranks. 
The series has a lot of characters and crews yes, that's about it for world building.
The action isn't that great, it's decent enough where it's not annoying but the action isn't anything special.
The drama? I mean most anime have drama that are better, One Piece ocassionally tries to deal with stuff like slavery or racism but those topics are quickly tossed aside for comedy and fights.
You don't actually think One Piece compares comedy wise to comedy series do you? It's comedy is on par with other series that are shounen focused.

All of those things are average.

All I can say is spread your horizon and look at top 10 lists that aren't full of naruto and stuff and you'll find out how ignorant you are being to anime culture.


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## Shukaku_Demon (Jul 4, 2015)

I haven't seen FMAB, but I love One Piece way more than Hunter x Hunter. There were too many opportunities missed with Hunter x Hunter and although, I did enjoy that series, I just don't understand why some claim it to be one of the best series of all time when it really wasn't all that great :/. We never got to see Gon fight Meruem, Gon vs Killua never happened, the leader of that one organization from season 3 never showed up again after leaving to find somebody, Kurapika just totally disappeared forever after season 3, we never got to see the top levels of the tournament building in season 2, a whole season was devoted to an online card game and I can keep going, but you get the point. Too much shit Hunter x Hunter hyped up and never followed through with. Also, the story in Hunter x Hunter seems all over the place. It's almost like mangaka kept getting bored with the way the story was headed in and decided to do something else completely different. Anyways, I think One Piece beats Hunter x Hunter in pretty much every category. People like to bitch how One Piece sucks after the time skip, but I'm still loving it. One Piece has great action/fights, drama, humor, few plotholes, character development, moments that hit you in the feels, and tells an amazing story unlike any other series I've ever read/watched. So I can't speak for FMAB, but One Piece >>>>>>> Hunter x Hunter.



Roƅ said:


> Yes, and a lot of people consider Naruto the best. I get  your point.
> 
> But the lover :: Hater ratio for garbage like Nicki Minaj and Naruto is far shittier than that of FMAB.



Naruto started off great, but slowly turned into a gay love story involving Naruto and Sasuke (anyone who says differently is lying to themselves).


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## God Movement (Jul 4, 2015)

^ gon is honestly a trash main character. never seen a main character in a shonen with such little focus or high moments.

one piece has been slacking majorly recently, but if we're talking overall? easily up there with hxh. especially since hxh has half the number of chapters which allows for half the number of potential fuck ups. besides that, the election arc was pretty trash so there's that too. york shin is >>> though.

fma has always been overrated to me, but that's just how i feel personally.


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## Shukaku_Demon (Jul 4, 2015)

God Movement said:


> ^ gon is honestly a trash main character. never seen a main character in a shonen with such little focus or high moments.
> 
> one piece has been slacking majorly recently, but if we're talking overall? easily up there with hxh. especially since hxh has half the number of chapters which allows for half the number of potential fuck ups. besides that, the election arc was pretty trash so there's that too. york shin is >>> though.
> 
> fma has always been overrated to me, but that's just how i feel personally.



Yea, that's another thing. Didn't the election arc make it seem like that one blonde dude who was running for chairman had some ulterior motive, but then nothing ever happened? Seemed completely pointless. I liked the series, but fuck is it overrated on the internet. I think people mainly like it because it's not a mainstream shounen that everyone knows about.


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## PwnGoatVSPandaman (Jul 4, 2015)

Shukaku_Demon said:


> I haven't seen FMAB, but I love One Piece way more than Hunter x Hunter. There were too many opportunities missed with Hunter x Hunter and although, I did enjoy that series, I just don't understand why some claim it to be one of the best series of all time when it really wasn't all that great :/. We never got to see Gon fight Meruem, Gon vs Killua never happened, the leader of that one organization from season 3 never showed up again after leaving to find somebody, Kurapika just totally disappeared forever after season 3, we never got to see the top levels of the tournament building in season 2, a whole season was devoted to an online card game and I can keep going, but you get the point. Too much shit Hunter x Hunter hyped up and never followed through with. Also, the story in Hunter x Hunter seems all over the place. It's almost like mangaka kept getting bored with the way the story was headed in and decided to do something else completely different. Anyways, I think One Piece beats Hunter x Hunter in pretty much every category. People like to bitch how One Piece sucks after the time skip, but I'm still loving it. One Piece has great action/fights, drama, humor, few plotholes, character development, moments that hit you in the feels, and tells an amazing story unlike any other series I've ever read/watched. So I can't speak for FMAB, but One Piece >>>>>>> Hunter x Hunter.


"We never got to see Gon fight meruem"
That doesn't make the series bad, that's just you being used to shounen when the hero always fights the villain, that's not how seinen works, and it's actually a positive that it's not predictable shit like one piece or fairy tail, that's a positive.

"Gon vs Killua never happened"
They are building up to that, the series isn't over, just on hiatus like he goes on a lot cuz he's horribly sick and likes playing dragon quest. Gon started naive and innocent and got more and more dark and fucked up, killua started the other way, when both have reached their final character point, the two will end up fighting or confronting each other most likely, when they have their initial roles reversed to an extreme degree where killua is a pure good guy and gon is a brutal killer. Right now, killua is too strong for gon, also there are other things that are going on on bigger scales than their personal "rivalry"

The genei ryodan are part of the kuripika arc, kuripika's arc is continueing with the dark continent, they will come in later, togashi isn't a noob where he has to blow his load 20 chapters after building something up, you are listing positives as if they are negative because you are used to cookie cutter shounen which are badly written.

What you're really arguing about is that you are being teased and are wanting more. I like how that sort of thing is praised with stuff like game of thrones but you must have instant gratification with this. Guess what, the story wasn't ready for those things, gon and killua were at the tower to get money, they got money, gon and killua were on the floor with hisoka to get nen and deal with hisoka, they had their moment. They had to go to yorkshin.

Guess what, they weren't ready for the higher floors, they were fighting the broken toys on their floor, not the big dogs. It wasn't really relevant to the story, I'm sorry you didn't get your pew pew pew explosions, but gon and killua are actually well thought out characters who have more depth than "let's go have super cool explosion fights"

I find it curious that you're saying him switching genres and making each arc unique despite holding onto what made hunter x hunter it's own identity a bad thing. You must like monotonous naruto fights.

One Piece is sub par to average. Hunter x Hunter isn't one of the best series or anything but it shits on one piece.


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## MYJC (Jul 4, 2015)

It's kind of unfair to compare a long-running manga like One Piece to a manga that's only around a hundred chapters long. If you at it purely in terms of which would tend to have a better chapter on average, FMA probably wins but that's because there was literally no need for filler and the manga had a set length. If you take the best 108 chapters of One Piece and compare them to FMA, then One Piece wins easily. So it's really comparing apples an oranges. 

As far as HxH...I dunno. It's well-written, but Togashi only releases chapters when he feels like it (and goes years without feeling like it) so it's kind of unfair to compare it to something that generally has a regular weekly release. I'd say the writing in HxH is more mature but One Piece has better characters. In particular, Luffy>>>>Gon.




Shukaku_Demon said:


> Yea, that's another thing. Didn't the election arc make it seem like that one blonde dude who was running for chairman had some ulterior motive, but then nothing ever happened? Seemed completely pointless. I liked the series, but fuck is it overrated on the internet. I think people mainly like it because it's not a mainstream shounen that everyone knows about.




This is because Togashi couldn't be bothered to finish the manga (technically it's on hiatus but I have my doubts about whether it'll ever come back). The election arc wasn't meant to be the final arc of the series, and we would've found out more about Pariston's motives in the next arc.


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## God Movement (Jul 4, 2015)

pariston? probably still has something planned, being part of beyond's expedition team and all. the new arc looks very promising, would be nice to get hxh back serialised soon. then compare the quality of that arc with one piece's next arc, which is probably zou + wano.


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## PwnGoatVSPandaman (Jul 4, 2015)

Shukaku_Demon said:


> Yea, that's another thing. Didn't the election arc make it seem like that one blonde dude who was running for chairman had some ulterior motive, but then nothing ever happened? Seemed completely pointless. I liked the series, but fuck is it overrated on the internet. I think people mainly like it because it's not a mainstream shounen that everyone knows about.



He had an ulterior motive, he was bored and wanted something to keep him interested. His arc isn't over either as he has joined beyond netero's ambitions (which has brought in kuripika, gon's father, and tons of others) as they head to the dark continent. 

Also gon got a lot of focus, he's just not the jesus figure of the series, just the focus. Gon not being a mary sue is a positive thing.


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## God Movement (Jul 4, 2015)

PwnGoatVSPandaman said:


> I find it curious that you're saying him switching genres and making each arc unique despite holding onto what made hunter x hunter it's own identity a bad thing. You must like monotonous naruto fights.
> *
> One Piece is sub par to average. Hunter x Hunter isn't one of the best series or anything but it shits on one piece.*



you like fairy tail.


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## PwnGoatVSPandaman (Jul 4, 2015)

Shukaku_Demon said:


> Naruto started off great, but slowly turned into a gay love story involving Naruto and Sasuke (anyone who says differently is lying to themselves).



Naruto started out as a hunter x hunter clone.



God Movement said:


> you like fairy tail.



Not anymore than anyone else in the fairy tail section. I watch it to trash on it, because I'm already invested into it by reading so many chapters, etc etc.

I also read one piece every week, I'm still calling it sub par. I still read naruto and bleach, I consider those series to be F - D rank.

I read/watch A LOT of series. 

The series I'm actually enjoying right now are Jojo's Bizarre Adventure (it's a niche that not everyone likes), GinTama, Bastard!!!, etc etc

I'd consider Monster one of the better anime of all time.


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## Extravlad (Jul 4, 2015)

> FMAB is considered by most to be the best Shounen ever created.


Nope FMA fans are just freaking hipsters.



> ^ gon is honestly a trash main character. never seen a main character in a shonen with such little focus or high moments.


He had several high moments lol, sure he wasn't the main focus of the 2 best arc but he still did stuff in the Ants saga.



> I'd consider Monster one of the better anime of all time.


Why would you even compare Monster with any Shonen?


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## Empathy (Jul 4, 2015)

Fullmetal Alchemist I consider my favorite manga I've ever read, but it was a lot more concise than One Piece, which is telling a massive story (near 800 chapters and we're lucky if it's over halfway done). FMA told its story and didn't drag on due to popularity and wear out its welcome. One Piece is by no means sub-par, though. If Naruto ended on some of its high points I think it would be remembered a lot more fondly, but it got just awful for me toward the end. I don't think there's a single character in FMA that I disliked or thought was bad (even the despicable ones served a purpose), and I haven't seen even minor supporting characters be developed so well.


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## Shukaku_Demon (Jul 4, 2015)

PwnGoatVSPandaman said:


> "We never got to see Gon fight meruem"
> That doesn't make the series bad, that's just you being used to shounen when the hero always fights the villain, that's not how seinen works, and it's actually a positive that it's not predictable shit like one piece or fairy tail, that's a positive.
> 
> "Gon vs Killua never happened"
> ...



Lol, I can tell I hit a nerve. Anyways, I never said Hunter x Hunter was bad. I enjoyed it, but in my opinion, it just wasn't as great as everyone says it was. All the points you've made make it seem like it's slowly building up to everything I've listed, but I'm pretty sure the series isn't coming back. And no,  I don't care for Naruto fights. The whole Naruto series in general has been nothing but a huge disappointment for the past several years. I used to be a huge Naruto fan, but slowly became disconnected with the anime/manga over time. 

Besides, even if Hunter x Hunter were to come back, it probably wouldn't address half the shit I listed. That series is always headed in some different direction. Not saying that's bad, but fuck...don't hype something up if it's never going to happen -__-


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## Chrollo Lucilfer (Jul 4, 2015)

No YOU can fuck outta here Nathan


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## PwnGoatVSPandaman (Jul 4, 2015)

Shukaku_Demon said:


> Lol, I can tell I hit a nerve. Anyways, I never said Hunter x Hunter was bad. I enjoyed it, but in my opinion, it just wasn't as great as everyone says it was. All the points you've made make it seem like it's slowly building up to everything I've listed, but I'm pretty sure the series isn't coming back. And no,  I don't care for Naruto fights. The whole Naruto series in general has been nothing but a huge disappointment for the past several years. I used to be a huge Naruto fan, but slowly became disconnected with the anime/manga over time.
> 
> Besides, even if Hunter x Hunter were to come back, it probably wouldn't address half the shit I listed. That series is always headed in some different direction. Not saying that's bad, but fuck...don't hype something up if it's never going to happen -__-



Stop trying to be edgy, no one cares that you are 2007 troll. "lel you butt hurt m8?"

There are tons of series that end partway, you should judge a series as complete when it either is undetermined or was partway through a story when it ended. 

Half the shit you listed wasn't relevant.

The top floors aren't relevant.
Kurpika will reach closure, maybe not through a super fight, but he will reach closure, even if it's in his death.
The card game was someone's nen ability, that is all.

It won't show gon vs meruem, so what? That's not a negative plot point, it's a positive plot point.

Guess what, hunter x hunter is more seinen in nature and the characters are more motifivated by actual realism and not the other way around. So if something isn't relevant to gon (winning the tower), he won't do it, it's really that simple. Gon was seeking out his father, that was his mission, not beating the tower. It's like saying "oh there was a casino that luffy didn't win big at in one of the cities", it's not relevant, you just are used to bang bang pew pew pew anime.

If the series is finished, gon and killua will have closure.

Sorry that hunter x hunter isn't pleb predictable, I'll let togashi know he should do the generic routes.


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## Shukaku_Demon (Jul 4, 2015)

PwnGoatVSPandaman said:


> He had an ulterior motive, *he was bored and wanted something to keep him interested*. His arc isn't over either as he has joined beyond netero's ambitions (which has brought in kuripika, gon's father, and tons of others) as they head to the dark continent.
> 
> Also gon got a lot of focus, he's just not the jesus figure of the series, just the focus. Gon not being a mary sue is a positive thing.



Meh, sounds like lazy writing to me. That's like if the Hogyoku never existed in Bleach and Aizen were to just come out at the end of the SS arc and say that he caused everything to happen the way it did because he was bored. Where the fuck is the substance and story telling in that? lol


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## Mikon (Jul 4, 2015)

PwnGoatVSPandaman said:


> What's special about the characters? Other series give characters far more depth and interesting personalities, there are visual standouts but none of the characters are really that great.
> World building? What world building? There are pirates, there are marines, and there are a few pirate ranks.
> The series has a lot of characters and crews yes, that's about it for world building.
> The action isn't that great, it's decent enough where it's not annoying but the action isn't anything special.
> ...



What do you consider as a great anime/manga? While Naruto is my favorite, i have watched a lot of other anime, too (and favorite =/= best)
I have watched Monster, and it was great, but a lot of things bugged me in that series, so i couldn't give it a 10 in the end


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## Orca (Jul 4, 2015)

^ Ed and Al stomp gon.


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## Suit (Jul 4, 2015)

Luffee said:


> ^ Ed and Al stomp gon.



My jimmies are rustled 

Seriously, let's take a look:

Alphonse: Sat quietly and let a demon use his head as Morse Code to signal a buddy to break him out. As opposed to, you know, killing said demon and actually doing something to gain some respect.

Edward: "I don't care if that demon killed a little girl, incited a war, murdered your best friend (forcing you to watch his wife and daughter cry their eyes out at his funeral, by the way) and is part of a plot to eradicate humanity! Torturing him to make yourself feel better isn't right!"

Edward and Alphonse plz

Gon threatened to murder a sickly innocent blind girl because he was fed up with bullshit hypocrisy and infuriated by the fact that the ants could easily kill someone important to him while expecting him to sit around and watch them help their own friend. _That,_ my friends, is the _real deal._ Gon is great.


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## Extravlad (Jul 4, 2015)

I mean there are worse main characters than both anyway.
Nobody is worse than Kamille from Gundam.

You wanna slap the shit out of him every fucking episode.


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## Mikon (Jul 4, 2015)

@PwnGoat
Funny thing is that Togashi did go with some generic shit in the Chimera arc...


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Jul 4, 2015)

God Movement said:


> ^ gon is honestly a trash main character. never seen a main character in a shonen with such little focus or high moments.
> 
> one piece has been slacking majorly recently, but if we're talking overall? easily up there with hxh. especially since hxh has half the number of chapters which allows for half the number of potential fuck ups. besides that, the election arc was pretty trash so there's that too. york shin is >>> though.
> 
> fma has always been overrated to me, but that's just how i feel personally.



Election arc trash


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## Muah (Jul 4, 2015)

It's not even a fair fight one piece is just way better. Only new ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".) would think differently.

Hxh berserk Vinland saga are like two tiers below One piece and oda is the undisputed king of manga. It's not only the best selling but the most recognized and celebrated and referenced  anime in the world. It has way more priceless moments than any other manga. It's an art work. It's quality and Oda is more respected than the prime minister or kanye west.

We're talking about 800 chapters of greatness not 18 years of hiatus.


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## God Movement (Jul 4, 2015)

MAJOR snoozefest.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Jul 4, 2015)

I re-read Tokyo Ghoul again.

Much better then one piece has been for a long time.


If Togashi had Hiro work ethic and better art hxh would probably be my favorite manga.


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## Orca (Jul 4, 2015)

Suit said:


> My jimmies are rustled



That wasn't my intention. I apologize.



> Seriously, let's take a look:
> 
> Alphonse: Sat quietly and let a demon use his head as Morse Code to signal a buddy to break him out. As opposed to, you know, killing said demon and actually doing something to gain some respect.



Wut?



> Edward: "I don't care if that demon killed a little girl, incited a war, murdered your best friend (forcing you to watch his wife and daughter cry their eyes out at his funeral, by the way) and is part of a plot to eradicate humanity! Torturing him to make yourself feel better isn't right!"



You're butthurt because Ed didn't want to torture someone?  Ed didn't know Maes for that long. Makes sense Roy would be the one to act that way and not Ed.



Edward and Alphonse plz



> Gon threatened to murder a sickly innocent blind girl because he was fed up with bullshit hypocrisy and infuriated by the fact that the ants could easily kill someone important to him while expecting him to sit around and watch them help their own friend. _That,_ my friends, is the _real deal._ Gon is great.



Yes, let's talk about Gon who became an annoying twat for a guy he spent little time with and then overcame his obstacle with a BS powerup.


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## tanman (Jul 4, 2015)

I'm reading One Pice primarily for Brooke's jokes.


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## Mikon (Jul 4, 2015)

Is Fate/Zero allowed to be called a battle shounen? 
If so, it's better than both FMAB and HxH


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## X18999 (Jul 4, 2015)

I like HxH slightly more than OP but FMA?  Ugh... too much angst for me... couldn't even finish watching it.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Jul 4, 2015)

tanman said:


> I'm reading One Pice primarily for Brooke's jokes.



So the last year must of been torture  for you.


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## Impact (Jul 4, 2015)

Mikon said:


> Is Fate/Zero allowed to be called a battle shounen?
> If so, it's better than both FMAB and HxH


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## Star★Platinum (Jul 4, 2015)

I'd probably say HxH by a smallish margin.
but Togashi literally has forever to think up ideas, where'as Oda's bossing out strong content each week,  If Oda took half the hiatuses Togashi takes OP would be better i imagine.


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## Orca (Jul 4, 2015)

Brooke became unfunny and irrelevant pretty fast.


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## Mikon (Jul 4, 2015)

Impact said:


>



Is there a problem?


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## Jagger (Jul 4, 2015)

PwnGoatVSPandaman said:


> Worse than both, One Piece is average at best and meh at it's worst.
> 
> The other two series aren't top series either but better than one piece.


Seems you decided to pick the worst and most annoying name possible.


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## Tatlo (Jul 4, 2015)

Shukaku_Demon said:


> Yea, that's another thing. Didn't the election arc make it seem like that one blonde dude who was running for chairman had some ulterior motive, but then nothing ever happened? Seemed completely pointless. I liked the series, but fuck is it overrated on the internet. I think people mainly like it because it's not a mainstream shounen that everyone knows about.



That blonde dude is one frightening fuck. 

Oh and he may not have had an ulterior motive for that one specific arc, but he didn't need to do anything 'cause everything was already working out for him. 
Speaking long term he has had an ulterior motive for the past two years. You'd know this if you were up to date with a certain manga that may never come back. (Whyy Togashii )


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## tanman (Jul 4, 2015)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> So the last year must of been torture  for you.



Yup. Pretty much.


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## PwnGoatVSPandaman (Jul 4, 2015)

Shukaku_Demon said:


> Meh, sounds like lazy writing to me. That's like if the Hogyoku never existed in Bleach and Aizen were to just come out at the end of the SS arc and say that he caused everything to happen the way it did because he was bored. Where the fuck is the substance and story telling in that? lol



Changing up the formula each arc and taking risks is what you consider lazy writing?

Bleach is lazy writing, every arc is similar to each other.
Fairy Tail is lazy wiriting, the same thing happens every arc.

Changing things up and delving into other genres is NOT lazy ,it's the opposite.

Aizen had character motivations, hunter x hunter have actual characters.



Star★Platinum said:


> I'd probably say HxH by a smallish margin.
> but Togashi literally has forever to think up ideas, where'as Oda's bossing out strong content each week,  If Oda took half the hiatuses Togashi takes OP would be better i imagine.



"bossing out strong content"
You must have not read past the alabasta arc.



Muah said:


> It's not even a fair fight one piece is just way better. Only new ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".) would think differently.
> 
> Hxh berserk Vinland saga are like two tiers below One piece and oda is the undisputed king of manga. It's not only the best selling but the most recognized and celebrated and referenced  anime in the world. It has way more priceless moments than any other manga. It's an art work. It's quality and Oda is more respected than the prime minister or kanye west.
> 
> We're talking about 800 chapters of greatness not 18 years of hiatus.



Your posts are a snoozefest for new ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".).


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## Speedy Jag. (Jul 4, 2015)

Black Lagoon is best pirate manga/anime 

Seriously tho BL's anime dubbed series is top tier level esp. Revy's relationship with Rock.


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## Palm Siberia (Jul 4, 2015)

Death Note > All other shounen


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## Samehadaman (Jul 4, 2015)

Suit said:


> Edward: "I don't care if that demon killed a little girl, incited a war, murdered your best friend (forcing you to watch his wife and daughter cry their eyes out at his funeral, by the way) and is part of a plot to eradicate humanity! Torturing him to make yourself feel better isn't right!"




I must rant because this is recent in my mind.

I only got around to marathon FMAB recently and while I liked it very much that moment had me climbing the fucking walls in despair.
The series was portraying the bad things that happen in a very solid way, from the little girl victim they couldn't save (the forced chimera) to the innocent soldiers that had to be killed in combat during the coup because there was no way around that, etc. a bunch other examples.

And suddenly some sort of Naruto lands in there and takes control of Ed's body and for some reason that soldier can't kill the most relentlessly evil being in existence, who kills little girls for laughs, in combat. That makes you the bad guy apparently... Even with it actively trying to kill you a second earlier... 

And that friend Ed was actually already on his way to stop the big evil during the doomsday countdown and took the time to come back to say that shit. And all those regular joe soldiers just following orders they think are right are dying by the hundreds upstairs, but he can live with that, however this absolute evil creature we must not kill no matter what because reasons.
Not to mention Mustang had already killed Lust in the very same scenario and guess what, everyone was just fine.
Holy fucking shit what happened in that scene I will never know. 

Rant over.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Jul 4, 2015)

Samehadaman said:


> I must rant because this is recent in my mind.
> 
> I only got around to marathon FMAB recently and while I liked it very much that moment had me climbing the fucking walls in despair.
> The series was portraying the bad things that happen in a very solid way, from the little girl victim they couldn't save (the forced chimera) to the innocent soldiers that had to be killed in combat during the coup because there was no way around that, etc. a bunch other examples.
> ...



Can't agree more that scene  is my most hated in the entire manga.


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## Palm Siberia (Jul 4, 2015)

The thing is Lust was trying to kill Mustang and she was about to kill more people if he did not stop her. Envy was just fucking with Roy trying to make him slip up and kill him, but he did not know how well Roy knew about homunculi. Besides they implied he would become more ruthless if he killed Envy and in the end he would be no different than Bradley.


----------



## Speedy Jag. (Jul 4, 2015)

I was a big fan of Bradley early on when he was introduced. 

Envy was such a weak scrub in the end lol

Shout out to Greed tho


----------



## Samehadaman (Jul 4, 2015)

Palm Siberia said:


> The thing is Lust was trying to kill Mustang and she was about to kill more people if he did not stop her. Envy was just fucking with Roy trying to make him slip up and kill him,




Yeah, Lust wanted to kill Roy and would kill others afterwards, while Envy wanted to kill Roy and would kill others after...




Palm Siberia said:


> Besides they implied he would become more ruthless if he killed Envy and in the end he would be no different than Bradley.




I know what Ed said, that's what I'm calling cringe worthy horse-shaite. Killing someone who thinks mass murder is a laughing matter, shoots little kids in the head, and is trying to kill you = being willing to kill an entire country of innocents for power.

*Science.*

That's like saying killing Freddy Kruger in combat is the same as nuking planet earth for lulz.


----------



## Xiammes (Jul 4, 2015)

The point was not to fall to your inner demons, Lust was attacking Hawkeye and Al, and had gravely injured him and Havoc. Mustang was attacking Envy out of pure contempt for the death of hughes, if Mustang was to become the leader after all is said and done, he can not act out of revenge.

Ed and Al are still kids, they hold the naive opinion you shouldn't kill, Al belived that pride was no longer a threat, I mean who would think that you would be able to send morse code for dozens of miles with just a stick.


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Jul 4, 2015)

That entire scene  was garbarge. Even more so hawk eye only time in the manga I wanted her to get punched in the throat.


----------



## hokageyonkou (Jul 4, 2015)

i dont know. didnt read fma nor HXH. not interested either. my expectation for manga is low.


----------



## B Rabbit (Jul 4, 2015)

It can't compete with FMA.

It's best is just a little bit better than HxH. 

However to be fair, HxH pacing is by far worse than One Piece's. For obvious reasons.


----------



## zoro (Jul 4, 2015)

I still like One Piece more than HxH, even if the latter has the best group of antagonist I've seen in shonen

Couldn't read FMA past the first 20~ chapters


----------



## B Rabbit (Jul 4, 2015)

To be fair. 

Naruto is better than HxH.

cause Kishi beat Dragon Quest. 

(True HxH fans will get this)


----------



## Lawliet (Jul 4, 2015)

I'll try and make my answer as simple as possible.

FMA = Overrated as fuck. I literally just finished it for the 3rd time last week. Overrated as fuck. 

HxH the 2011 anime version is hands down the best anime i've ever seen. 
One Piece anime is trash. 

Now we get to the HxH Manga vs One Piece Manga...

I take One Piece over HxH at the moment for two reasons. 
1- HxH is always on a break. 
2- One Piece's drawing quality shits on HxH

IF...

HxH started to have weekly chapters for at least a year with better drawing (its drawing got better the last time it came back, so that's a plus), then I'd take HxH over one piece any day, any time. 

HxH has so much potential. So much potential.


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Jul 4, 2015)

Shiki said:


> I still like One Piece more than HxH, even if the latter has the best group of antagonist I've seen in shonen
> 
> Couldn't read FMA past the first 20~ chapters



Chrollo and his boys are so wanked I don't understand.

 Although some HXH fans are insane in the head so so yea..


----------



## hokageyonkou (Jul 4, 2015)

one piece anime used to be good. used to be good. what the fuck happened?


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Jul 4, 2015)

oOLawlietOo said:


> I'll try and make my answer as simple as possible.
> 
> FMA = Overrated as fuck. I literally just finished it for the 3rd time last week. Overrated as fuck.
> 
> ...



Well it was good enough  for you to watch it 3 times. I haven't  even watched or read it more then once.

So maybe you like it more then you think


----------



## Lawliet (Jul 4, 2015)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Well it was good enough  for you to watch it 3 times. I haven't  even watched or read it more then once.
> 
> So maybe you like it more then you think



I saw it the first time because someone recommended it for me. 

I saw it the 2nd time because that same person recommended me to watch the other version.

I saw it the 3rd time because I had no internet for a while and It and HxH were the only things I could watch without internet


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Jul 4, 2015)

oOLawlietOo said:


> I saw it the first time because someone recommended it for me.
> 
> I saw it the 2nd time because that same person recommended me to watch the other version.
> 
> I saw it the 3rd time because I had no internet for a while and It and HxH were the only things I could watch without internet



I know fma is on cartoon network but is HXH on TV to or did 
you buy the dvds.

Also which version do you like more.


----------



## zoro (Jul 4, 2015)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Chrollo and his boys are so wanked I don't understand.
> 
> Although some HXH fans are insane in the head so so yea..



I'll stop wanking the Phantom Troupe the day I see a group of antagonists of higher quality, which hasn't happened yet 

Granted, I haven't read a lot of shonen but still...


----------



## Elite Uchiha (Jul 4, 2015)

DB/DBZ is still the GOAT. Everyone else is fighting for 2nd.

OP part II has been just as bad as Naruto part II IMO.


----------



## Lawliet (Jul 4, 2015)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> I know fma is on cartoon network but is HXH on TV to or did
> you buy the dvds.
> 
> Also which version do you like more.



I had them both on my laptop. 

The old version of FMA is darker I guess. The scene with the dad/doctor and his daughter/dog is portrayed better in the old version. The newer version has better animation I guess, other than that, It's not really that different. I haven't seen the older version in forever , I can't really remember much.


----------



## Styles (Jul 4, 2015)

FMA didn't leave nearly the impression on me that One Piece did. So yeah, One Piece wins. I like HXH as well, but the same can be said for it.


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Jul 4, 2015)

Shiki said:


> I'll stop wanking the Phantom Troupe the day I see a group of antagonists of higher quality, which hasn't happened yet
> 
> Granted, I haven't read a lot of shonen but still...



So your a ignorant noob has only read like 50 manga.

GTFO...


----------



## Mikon (Jul 4, 2015)

Shiki said:


> I'll stop wanking the Phantom Troupe the day I see a group of antagonists of higher quality, which hasn't happened yet
> 
> Granted, I haven't read a lot of shonen but still...



The Phantom Troupe and the Homunclus are quite meh...Bradley was my favorite and he is such a shallow character...Hisoka is just "cool" in a fucked up way, that's why everyone likes him


----------



## zoro (Jul 4, 2015)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> So your a ignorant noob has only read like 50 manga.
> 
> GTFO...



More like 20 



Mikon said:


> The Phantom Troupe and the Homunclus are quite meh...Bradley was my favorite and he is such a shallow character...Hisoka is just "cool" in a fucked up way, that's why everyone likes him



I find Illumi way more interesting than Hisoka


----------



## Mikon (Jul 4, 2015)

Shiki said:


> More like 20
> 
> 
> 
> I find Illumi way more interesting than Hisoka



I didn't name Illumi because he isn't part of the Phantom Troupe, but i prefer him, too
Thing is that he is one of those characters that you will not see much about him....thus i cannot like him too much..the same case is with Mihawk in One Piece...you see them for like 2 minutes in 100 chapters
Honestly, everyone has their own definiton of a good antagonist, for me it will be a ruthless villian toying with the protagonist's mind and such...that's why i liked Pain...that's why i like Griffith..
Johan Liebert is maybe the better example for this, but i really couldn't get through all the hype that the author made about him throughout the series, by every fucking person that Tenma met..."He is the second coming of Hitler!!@!" and some crazy shit like that...it really was cringeworthy at some point and made quite the opposite effect in that regard.


----------



## ZE (Jul 4, 2015)

I consider the Yorknew arc and the chimera ant arc better than any OP arc, but overall both manga are fantastic and I couldn't say which one is better. Although I prefer HxH but that's a matter of personal preference. 

But I'm loving every single page of the dark continent arc. If it turns out Togashi actually finishes the arc, and he manages to make it even better than the best HxH arcs, then you'd have 3 legendary arcs in a single manga, which isn't easy to find. As much as I love some of the arcs in OP, I wouldn't call any of them legendary; that's reserved for arcs such as the Namek arc in DB, sanctuary arc in saint seiya, yorknew and chimera ant etc.


----------



## Mikon (Jul 4, 2015)

ZE said:


> I consider the Yorknew arc and the chimera ant arc better than any OP arc, but overall both manga are fantastic and I couldn't say which one is better. Although I prefer HxH but that's a matter of personal preference.
> 
> But I'm loving every single page of the dark continent arc. If it turns out Togashi actually finishes the arc, and he manages to make it even better than the best HxH arcs, then you'd have 3 legendary arcs in a single manga, which isn't easy to find. As much as I love some of the arcs in OP, I wouldn't call any of them legendary; that's reserved for arcs such as the Namek arc in DB, sanctuary arc in saint seiya, yorknew and chimera ant etc.



What about Alabasta, CP9 and Marineford? 
Chimera arc is so overrated :/
The death of Kite was great, i was shocked at that scene, i agree, but other than that...it just didn't live up to the hype..don't get me started on that narrator (roflmao)


----------



## zoro (Jul 4, 2015)

Mikon said:


> I didn't name Illumi because he isn't part of the Phantom Troupe, but i prefer him, too
> Thing is that he is one of those characters that you will not see much about him....thus i cannot like him too much..the same case is with Mihawk in One Piece...you see them for like 2 minutes in 100 chapters
> Honestly, everyone has their own definiton of a good antagonist, for me it will be a ruthless villian toying with the protagonist's mind and such...that's why i liked Pain...that's why i like Griffith..
> Johan Liebert is maybe the better example for this, but i really couldn't get through all the hype that the author made about him throughout the series, by every fucking person that Tenma met..."He is the second coming of Hitler!!@!" and some crazy shit like that...it really was cringeworthy at some point and made quite the opposite effect in that regard.



I always forget Hisoka was in the PT 

I just wanted to clarify that I'm strictly talking about the group aspect of the Ryodan. I've seen better written individual villains, just not better written groups of villains. Their dynamics and relationships is what makes them stand out for me


----------



## Dragon D. Luffy (Jul 4, 2015)

FMA is imo the best shounen ever made. It's just on a higher literary level.

HxH is great, but it's overrated. Sometimes I think the author tries too hard to make something intelligent and because of that the manga is filled with anti-climaxes and pacing issues.

One Piece is great on many senses, not trying to be something on the level of FMA but achieving perfection at what it tries to achieve. It is the most fun manga in the world, imo. So I like it better than FMA, even though I know FMA is better.



Shiki said:


> I'll stop wanking the Phantom Troupe the day I see a group of antagonists of higher quality, which hasn't happened yet
> 
> Granted, I haven't read a lot of shonen but still...



It's said Togashi can make such great antagonists but can't have them antagonize the protagonists properly. Almost every arc in HxH ends with an anti-climax, and it's annoying as fuck.

inb4 HxH fanboys attacking my post like an angry mob.


----------



## ZE (Jul 4, 2015)

Mikon said:


> What about Alabasta, CP9 and Marineford?
> Chimera arc is so overrated :/
> The death of Kite was great, i was shocked at that scene, i agree, but other than that...it just didn't live up to the hype..don't get me started on that narrator (roflmao)



When I first read the chimera ant arc, for the first time while reading a manga, I actually felt like I was there. Somehow I knew how scared Killua and Gon were after meeting pitou, and I feared for what the ants could do as if I was in danger as well. Despite the bad art some of those chapters had, I was blown away. It reminded me of when I watched Goku turning SSJ for the first time against Freeza - I was a kid back then. Throughout he entire fight I refused to believe Goku was going to win; I mean, how could he?? Freeza was too strong.

But I was a kid then when i watched db. When I read the chimera ant arc, I was an adult and still got the same kind of feeling. I love the three OP arcs you spoke of, but I wouldn't put them on the same level as the chimera arc. Of all the arcs in OP, even though it's not the best one, the parts I feel the most nostalgia for are the entirely of the east blue arc.


----------



## Dragon D. Luffy (Jul 4, 2015)

The start of chimera ant is amazing indeed.

But the second half is not nearly as good. Because when it came the time for Togashi to start delivering, he started unleashing anti-climaxes yet again.


----------



## Mikon (Jul 4, 2015)

What is so great about FMAB that makes it on another level?
As much as FMAB is trying to take itself seriously, i really could not take the final fight seriously at all...
If you think about it, it's a mix of the Aizen final fight and the Obito/Madara final fight
everyone vs the OP dude...i got reminded of this shit yet once again in NNT with Handrickson...Shounen authors just can't do an important/final arc without that, do they?  
Meruem's treatment was kind of different, but he is a total dissapointment, too...


----------



## ZE (Jul 4, 2015)

From start to finish the arc is perfect, and that's why I consider it legendary. The marinford arc would've been perfect if it weren't for the fact that practically all of the fights were off-paneled. So much potential and almost all of it was skirmishes.


----------



## Mikon (Jul 4, 2015)

The main fights in Chimera arc were dissapointing...
Pouf and Youpi moaning like total bitches was kind of akward...i reall questioned myself as to why i am watching that, lol
the hyped fight of Netero and Meruem was just Netero throwing punches at him...
the MEGA hyped fight of Gon and Pitou was concluded with one punch, dat awesomeness


----------



## ZE (Jul 4, 2015)

What made those fights great was the complete package. The actual exchange of blows was just a part of it. And if you're expecting an HxH fight to be dragged out, you need to read another manga. The fights in HxH are more realistic than that.


----------



## HisMajestyMihawk (Jul 4, 2015)

usual bitching aside, One Piece is leagues better than Hiatus x Hiatus, and FMB


----------



## Freechoice (Jul 4, 2015)

FMAB is rubbish

the retarded ending ruined the entire series


----------



## Mikon (Jul 4, 2015)

I am not even reading HxH, just watched the 2011 version, and honestly, it's overrated as fuck
Give it a bad studio like Deen, Toei or Pierrot, and it would make a really meh of an arc 
And if by realistic you mean a PU that let's the main character win in a single punch, then have it your way 
I prefer fights with meaning, background and hype, but those fights just didn't get me excited at all.


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Jul 4, 2015)

lol said:


> FMAB is rubbish
> 
> the retarded ending ruined the entire series



What about the ending did you not like?

Did you not like how father was defeated , or by ending do you mean after he was defeated.


----------



## Mikon (Jul 4, 2015)

I think that the main fight with him was doomed to be bad from the beginning, so cliche and boring..
And from what i remember about FMAB, the ending was too much of a happy ending
Well, i watched FMAB like 5 years ago, some time has passed..:/


----------



## Freechoice (Jul 4, 2015)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> What about the ending did you not like?
> 
> Did you not like how father was defeated , or by ending do you mean after he was defeated.



both

being defeated by punches, the ambiguity regarding dwarf in the flask & that door, the predictable sacrifice of the dad (forget his name), the execution of alphonse's return

I could go on


----------



## Palm Siberia (Jul 4, 2015)

I personally felt the Ishval backstory could have used more focus hell Scar could have gotten more focus. Also Lust went out too early imo. As for HXH I do agree it seems like people enjoy the villains of HXH than the heroes which might be an issue since usually it's supposed to be the heroes that should be favored. Then again not every fiction has to stick to this formula.


----------



## Venom Snake (Jul 4, 2015)

The only bad thing about FMA's ending is Father's defeat. I've never watched Brotherhood, i'd rather read the manga.


----------



## Extravlad (Jul 4, 2015)

Lmao the fights in the Ants saga were very good.
Knuckle talking big about how he'll make Yupi pay for not direspecting Shoot, going in with determination in his eyes just to run away like a little bitch when Yupi goes mad and try to kill him.
That was glorious.

Also there are better antagonists than the PT within HXH lmao, Meruem puts Chrollo and Hisoka in the dumpster, he's a way more interesting character than either of them.
Pariston in 5 chapters was already better than any of them.

Chrollo is your generic character from a shonen that's just there to make fanboys buy the shit just like Itachi in Naruto.


FMA's ending was decent, I mean if you really wanna see a shit ending just read Shaman King lmao


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Jul 4, 2015)

Shamen king


----------



## Freechoice (Jul 4, 2015)

Shaman king makes FMAB look like Berserk


----------



## Extravlad (Jul 4, 2015)

The only good thing about Shaman King is the MC everything else is shit.

I'd even say that the anime ending is 10 times better than the one in the mannga.


----------



## Dellinger (Jul 4, 2015)

Half of Chimera Ant was boring shit,the only exciting arc from start to finish was Yorknew.

Despite Oda's recent failures,OP is easily the best shonen for me.EB was boss,Alabasta was great,Skypeia was amazing,W7/EN also.Shabaody was cray and then we have Marineford.Honestly nothing can approach OP's part 1.We're talking about 600 chapters of almost pure awesomeness.

Part 2 is just bad on execution,Oda's creativity is still there.

I haven't read FMA.


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Jul 4, 2015)

CA>new york City


----------



## Dragon D. Luffy (Jul 4, 2015)

Mikon said:


> What is so great about FMAB that makes it on another level?
> As much as FMAB is trying to take itself seriously, i really could not take the final fight seriously at all...
> If you think about it, it's a mix of the Aizen final fight and the Obito/Madara final fight
> everyone vs the OP dude...i got reminded of this shit yet once again in NNT with Handrickson...Shounen authors just can't do an important/final arc without that, do they?
> Meruem's treatment was kind of different, but he is a total dissapointment, too...



FMA was never about fights though. That's why it was so great.

The plot though... it was a masterpiece.

When we did have fights, they were all about strategy and finding clever ways to defeat enemies. Power levels were non-existant.


----------



## Mikon (Jul 4, 2015)

Extravlad said:


> LReally,e fights in the Ants saga were very good.
> Knuckle not king big about how he'll make Yupi pay for not direspecting Shoot, going in with determination in his eyes just to run away like a little bitch when Yupi goes mad and try to kill him.
> That was glorious.
> 
> ...



Meh..one decent fight cannot save an entire arc
I was talking about the main fights anyway
Funny how HxH fanboys are talking with reason about everything but HxH itself
It's not a masterpiece, and it has those very generic scenes like any other shounen
Was Meruem even a villian? Really, there wasn't even a single antagonist that got treated properly in that arc
Care to explain about the dissapointment that Pitou is? Or the deaths of the RG? Togashi just made the most hyped antagonist into a gigantic pussy and all the fanboys just ate it like a cake  because of "FEELS!@" rly?  
Togashi tried with him and made him as deep as he can, but that was quite the anti-climatic outcome
Having said that, i can't really blame you if you like this kind of stuff
Hell, even Ano Hana's cheap drama felt more well written than the KomugixMeruem thing


----------



## Dragon D. Luffy (Jul 4, 2015)

The only arc in HxH that did not end in anti-climax was Greed Island. That's why it was my favorite one.

Every single other arc features Togashi finding a way not to have the heroes defeat the villains. Call that original and mature if you want, but when you keep denying pay-offs over and over from your readers, it ceases to be good and becomes just frustrating.


----------



## Dellinger (Jul 4, 2015)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> CA>new york City



What made the Chimera Ant was the devotion of the guards to Meruem and the awesomeness of Netero.The rest was boring shit.


----------



## Extravlad (Jul 4, 2015)

HXH fans gets salty when I throw the truth at their faces.
Morel + Knuckle would beat Phinks + Feitan or Nobunaga + Uvogin in 2V2.


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Jul 5, 2015)

Extravlad said:


> HXH fans gets salty when I throw the truth at their faces.
> Morel + Knuckle would beat Phinks + Feitan or Nobunaga + Uvogin in 2V2.



I doubt it

Speculation on my part but I think all the spiders can fight together  on a high level. Knuckle is also the weak link he is weaker then all the,fighting spider members

Morel is a, beast but in CQC he loses to all the spiders you mentioned and he is kind of lacking in attack power.

Honestly morel+Shoot would be a better fight.


----------



## Space Jam (Jul 5, 2015)

i went to work 10 hours ago and this thread had like 30 post lmao. 

HxH is my favorite of the 3... Its just that "dark/edgy shounen where nothing happens like you expected it too, except greed island" Id say HxH and FMA are actually quite similar tbh


----------



## COREYxYEROC (Jul 5, 2015)

hxh probably would have been the greatest jump manga ever if it got finished...
i really cant think of a moment i dont like... i guess gon not wanting to know about his mother but that nitpicking.

i feel like i need to rewatch FMAB... but i think op is better than it. some arcs anyway... 
there are moments in op that are worse than FMAB
i cant think of a bad moment in FMAB honestly.

also

york new > chimer ant > hunter exam > chairman election >  heavens arena > greed island

cause greed island is last doesnt mean its bad... i love hxh.


----------



## Extravlad (Jul 5, 2015)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> I doubt it
> 
> Speculation on my part but I think all the spiders can fight together  on a high level. Knuckle is also the weak link he is weaker then all the,fighting spider members
> 
> ...


No Knuckle + Morel = best 2V2 synergy.
Knuckle use his hatsu and then Morel juste use his smoke to create clones, Knuckle can freely gets some few hits without getting caught and they just have to win time to beat anyone.
Don't forget a Morel that didn't have his weapon and was fighting at 35% of his abilities almost defeated Yupi with Knuckle's help.

Knuckle's hatsu is completely broken with Morel on his side.


----------



## Suit (Jul 5, 2015)

Feitan > Morel


----------



## Deleted member 211714 (Jul 5, 2015)

Both of them are trash compared to One Piece.


----------



## Suit (Jul 5, 2015)

King Itachi said:


> Both of them are trash compared to One Piece.



Says the dude using the name of the biggest plot device in fiction


----------



## Deleted member 211714 (Jul 5, 2015)

Suit said:


> Says the dude using the name of the biggest plot device in fiction



Naruto is trash, too. But I do like a few characters in the series.
Doesn't change the fact that it suffers in other areas, though.

Although, I will admit that Oda failed with Dressrosa; it could have been much better with the amount of chapters we had.


----------



## Space Jam (Jul 5, 2015)

who are the 3 people to zoro's left in extravlad's sig?  I recognize Daz, Ohm, Kaku, and pica


----------



## Suit (Jul 5, 2015)

Looking back on Dressrosa, I sincerely think that Oda's abandoned his more mature audience completely. Money-wise, that's not a bad decision. And truth be told, if the majority of his fans really are childish enough to accept what the story has become, then it's the best decision all around. But I really wish that he hadn't hooked so many of us with how great EB was. I'd love to have seen the rest of the story handled similarly, but those days are really long gone.


----------



## Freechoice (Jul 5, 2015)

Extravlad said:


> HXH fans gets salty when I throw the truth at their faces.
> Morel + Knuckle would beat Phinks + Feitan or Nobunaga + Uvogin in 2V2.



dude they wouldn't just beat, they would stomp

Morel is fucking strong af, people seem to forget he was at 30% (can't remember exact number) capacity all throughout CA arc

knuckle + morel is a deadly combo

Morel got the smarts and the strength to back it up, knuckle's ability works great in tandem.


----------



## Space Jam (Jul 5, 2015)

i wish there could be an active HxH discussion on this forum.


----------



## Mikon (Jul 5, 2015)

That was my intention all along  ^^
Who is stronger, Hisoka or Illumi?


----------



## Lawliet (Jul 5, 2015)

Hands down, Hisoka. 

If you pay close attention, you'll notice that the most held character in the entire series is Hisoka, and Togashi has made that clear multiple times. He portrayed Hisoka differently from many other characters and if it wasn't for plot, Hisoka was going to face and *possibly* beat Chrollo 1 vs 1. 

In order for you to believe in what I say, you'll have to first acknowledge the fact that Chrollo is literally one of the strongest characters in the entire series (surprisingly, many don't) That's who Hisoka was aiming to fight for a really long time. Illumi is an assassin. He is the typical old fashioned assassin. Hit and run. Stay in the shadows. Don't fight people head on especially if there's the slightest chance they're stronger than you. Nothing special about him to be honest. Silva, Zeno and Killua are the different ones in the family. They are assassins, but they are not the same type of assassins Illumi is, which is why these 3 are always going to be stronger than Illumi when all of these 4 are at their peak. 


Netero/Zeno/Silva/Chrollo/Beyond/Ging/Hisoka are the strongest humans introduced in the series. Killua's potential is scary and he's going to shit on all of them one day. One day.


----------



## Orca (Jul 5, 2015)

Truth be told, I stopped watching HxH at episode 130 or something. I was probably burnt out at that point but the narrator was pissing me off. Not to mention I didn't like the direction the arc went.


----------



## Freechoice (Jul 5, 2015)

oOLawlietOo said:


> Hands down, Hisoka.
> 
> If you pay close attention, you'll notice that the most held character in the entire series is Hisoka, and Togashi has made that clear multiple times. He portrayed Hisoka differently from many other characters and if it wasn't for plot, Hisoka was going to face and *possibly* beat Chrollo 1 vs 1.
> 
> ...



That's a poor argument, but I don't necessarily disagree with your premise

Hisoka also wanted to fight/kill Netero, but he didn't get a chance because plot, this proves he's Netero level

See what I did? Same warped inductive reasoning.

If anything they've been portrayed as nigh equals; the only indicator of difference between them is the whole 95 points thing that Hisoka gave...

Which is ambiguous at best

Though Illumi did seem pretty confident in killing Hisoka during chairman election arc.


----------



## Lawliet (Jul 5, 2015)

lol said:


> That's a poor argument, but I don't necessarily disagree with your premise
> 
> Hisoka also wanted to fight/kill Netero, but he didn't get a chance because plot, this proves he's Netero level
> 
> ...



My argument would be weak if it was made for another Manga/different character. This is Hisoka we're talking about. One of the smartest characters in the entire series. He knows the capacity of his strength and he knows how strong Chrollo is, he still desired to fight him. And it's not like he simply wanted to fight him and that's it. He made a whole plan to do so. Illumi himself backed that plan at the very end and helped Hisoka sneak out. What would happen if Hisoka lost to Chrollo? The latter with his brain would 100% figure out it was Illumi who helped Hisoka sneak out. What do you think Chrollo would do? He would most likely hold a grudge against Illumi if not attempt to kill him since he knows too much and has betrayed him. That is a risk Illumi took. That is faith Illumi put on Hisoka. All speculation, but think about the characters and their personalities in relation to this situation, it makes *some* sense (Some is all I need to start speculating).  And I don't think Hisoka ever wanted to fight Netero. If I'm not wrong, It's Illumi who was teasing Hisoka by saying "you could've fought Netero if you were there" and as far as I remember, Hisoka didn't really show much interest.

And Illumi killing Hisoka scene... Hisoka talked about killing Killua, Illumi's little brother. That scene wasn't meant to be taken seriously. It was a comedic relief from Hisoka's part to warn Killua that Illumi is close and is watching him. I know you're trying to make a point by saying, Illumi was confident in beating Hisoka. And Hisoka was confident in beating Chrollo, therefore...

But they're different. Illumi and Hisoka are friends. They threaten each other that way but it's not meant to be taken seriously. Gon got mad at Killua a couple times and if I'm not wrong, he said he'd beat him. We all know that is not happening and Killua would beat not 1 gon, but 10 all at the same time prior to learning Nen and possibly after.


----------



## Freechoice (Jul 5, 2015)

oOLawlietOo said:


> My argument would be weak if it was made for another Manga/different character. This is Hisoka we're talking about. One of the smartest characters in the entire series. He knows the capacity of his strength and he knows how strong Chrollo is, he still desired to fight him. And it's not like he simply wanted to fight him and that's it. He made a whole plan to do so. Illumi himself backed that plan at the very end and helped Hisoka sneak out. What would happen if Hisoka lost to Chrollo? The latter with his brain would 100% figure out it was Illumi who helped Hisoka sneak out. What do you think Chrollo would do? He would most likely hold a grudge against Illumi if not attempt to kill him since he knows too much and has betrayed him. That is a risk Illumi took. That is faith Illumi put on Hisoka. All speculation, but think about the characters and their personalities in relation to this situation, it makes *some* sense.  And I don't think Hisoka ever wanted to fight Netero. If I'm not wrong, It's Illumi who was teasing Hisoka by saying "you could've fought Netero if you were there" and as far as I remember, Hisoka didn't really show much interest.



Well you gotta remember that he wasn't a victim of circumstance, there is a driving force behind the story and that's the author. Unfortunately we can only speculate why Togashi chose to delay the penultimate Hisoka vs Chrollo, and I believe it's due to the fact that Chrollo was simply too strong for good ol' Hisoky. Obviously Hisoka couldn't lose so good old devices were set in place to ensure it doesn't happen/ties in well with Kurapika. Not really anything to back that up other than it just seems like a fairly rational reason.

Hisoka likes to test his abilities, iirc he's said that himself. Chrollo is sorta like the ultimate pinnacle, so-to-speak. He may have wanted to see how he measured up to him. 

Oh, I was referring to the little interaction Hisoka had with Netero back in the hunter exams arc, 



Like I said, I think the opposite of you. I don't think Hisoka knows the capacity of his strength because he has never had the chance to fully test it.

Because surely he didn't believe he could beat Netero, right?

Anyway I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, just spurting out hxh ideas that I never had a chance to voice because there is no section for discussion. Your perspective seems just as sound.


----------



## Lawliet (Jul 5, 2015)

> Unfortunately we can only speculate why Togashi chose to delay the penultimate Hisoka vs Chrollo, and I believe it's due to the fact that Chrollo was simply too strong for good ol' Hisoky



I definitely agree with this. Chrollo is a monster, no doubt about that. I even think he'd beat Zeno 1 vs 1 due to their interaction and conversation when they fought, someone who's really close to Netero in overall strength. 



> Like I said, I think the opposite of you. I don't think Hisoka knows the capacity of his strength because he has never had the chance to fully test it.


I semi agree with you on this, the only difference is... I think Hisoka knows how strong he is, but not how much room he has to grow. Let's be honest though. Hisoka thinks with his dick, so it doesn't really matter.

And yeah I totally forgot about that Hisoka/Netero scene.


----------



## Mikon (Jul 5, 2015)

I think that it goes something like this: Netero>Chrollo>Hisoka>=<Illumi
Illumi pretty much went batshit insane when Hisoka asked if he can kill Killua

EDIT:

Also, Suit, i don't agree with you dude
You can't just throw that line of "plot device" without the reasoning as to why that makes him bad in the first place
Itachi is the example of a well crafted character, sure the character has his own issues and problems, but that's not the point
While being plot devices, Jiraiya and Whitebeard were great characters, so i don't see your point anyway


----------



## Dellinger (Jul 5, 2015)

Suit said:


> Looking back on Dressrosa, I sincerely think that Oda's abandoned his more mature audience completely. Money-wise, that's not a bad decision. And truth be told, if the majority of his fans really are childish enough to accept what the story has become, then it's the best decision all around. But I really wish that he hadn't hooked so many of us with how great EB was. I'd love to have seen the rest of the story handled similarly, but those days are really long gone.



I don't it's like that.Oda tried to have too many things work on this arc which was something it couldn't be done.So he failed.


----------



## Ramius (Jul 5, 2015)

FMA >= HxH >>> OP

There's way too many ways of looking at this though. It's a pointless argument because there will be one guy telling you "hey, they are aimed at children-teens, so OP does a very good job, compared to HxH that seems to try hard to aim for older audiences, but still remains childish or for teens in its themes". Then there will be some other guy telling you that it's all about the 'hype' moments. Another will tell you it's all about world building or it's all about the story or it's all about the characters. And the list goes on.

In the end, I say One Piece is the worst of the three, because it has the highest rate of retarded characters, retarded stories and just outright very annoying moments. Its quality is just not consistent for my tastes. FMA also had that terribad final fight though and some stupid themes going on. At the end of the day, we have to remember they are all aimed at children and teens at best though.

Basically I have to try hard and turn my brain off completely to enjoy One Piece at times and that happened less often with FMA and HxH. (HxH is over, just forget it)


----------



## Extravlad (Jul 5, 2015)

@oOLawlietOo Well it's even possible that Hisoka has already defeated Chrollo.
He stopped chasing after him during the election arc, and Illumi said he did seach for 
Chrollo when Gon and Killua were fighting against the Chimera Ants;

So there's obviously a few possibilities.

1. Hisoka found Chrollo but didn't fight him for some reason.

2. Hisoka found Chrollo and won.

3. Hisoka didn't find Chrollo and stopped chasing after him during the election arc : Highly unlikely considering he was bored as fuck and wanted to fight strong people during that arc.

4. Hisoka found Chrollo and lost.

I think it's either 1 or 2.


----------



## Shukaku_Demon (Jul 5, 2015)

Mikon said:


> What about Alabasta, CP9 and Marineford?
> Chimera arc is so overrated :/
> The death of Kite was great, i was shocked at that scene, i agree, but other than that...it just didn't live up to the hype..don't get me started on that narrator (roflmao)



This guy fucking gets it^

But seriously, fuck that narrator. I almost forgot about him. He killed most of the fight scenes for me that I was hyped for in the Chimera Ant arc. It was stupid as hell. 

The only thing that Hunter x Hunter has over One Piece is that it's darker, but One Piece isn't meant to be dark. Water 7/Enies Lobby and War of the best/Marineford >>>>> Yorknew and Chimera Ant by a fuck ton. And I actually really liked those arcs, but compared to Enies Lobby and Marineford, they're not even close to being as good.


----------



## Dellinger (Jul 5, 2015)

Ramius said:


> FMA >= HxH >>> OP
> 
> There's way too many ways of looking at this though. It's a pointless argument because there will be one guy telling you "hey, they are aimed at children-teens, so OP does a very good job, compared to HxH that seems to try hard to aim for older audiences, but still remains childish or for teens in its themes". Then there will be some other guy telling you that it's all about the 'hype' moments. Another will tell you it's all about world building or it's all about the story or it's all about the characters. And the list goes on.
> 
> ...



OP is just that much bigger than HxH and FMA though.It has much more characters because its world is a lot bigger than those 2.So it will only lead to many stories.Also the same way you say OP has the highest rate of retarded characters and stories,I can say that OP also has the highest rate of better character and stories.Which it does really.


----------



## Lucaniel (Jul 5, 2015)

fma is way better than one piece and hxh

couldn't say about hxh vs. op bc i read the chickenscratch version of the ant arc and stopped one piece after thriller bark


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## Ramius (Jul 5, 2015)

That's why I said rate, mate. Specifically rate. Because they vary in size and number of characters greatly. And no, OP doesn't.
I mean, may be you like rehashed developments taken from previous characters and pasted into others in later arcs with slight variations, I don't.


----------



## Shukaku_Demon (Jul 5, 2015)

Lucaniel said:


> fma is way better than one piece and hxh
> 
> couldn't say about hxh vs. op bc i read the chickenscratch version of the ant arc and *stopped one piece after thriller bark*



Wtf? You stopped One Piece after Thriller Bark? So you missed out on the whole war of the best saga? That's crazy. I highly recommend going back to it and at least finish the Marineford Arc. I don't see how anyone could just watch or read from the beginning all the way to the end of Thriller Bark and decide to drop it there. Kind of unheard of lol.


----------



## Tenma (Jul 5, 2015)

tbf TB is way better than Marineford.


----------



## Orca (Jul 5, 2015)

Tenma said:


> tbf TB is way better than Marineford.



Well it's sure as hell isn't as exciting, entertaining or epic as Marineford. Agreed by majority.

Regardless of whether it's better or not.


----------



## kidgogeta (Jul 5, 2015)

One Piece succeeds in broad appeal, but  isn't on the level of stuff like Brotherhood , HxH, Gintama, Steins , Code Geass.

Oda does a lot of things right like world building, cool moments, fan service, etc  but that only puts it at the top of the trash heap ( Naruto, Bleach, Fairy Tail, Shingeki).


----------



## Dellinger (Jul 5, 2015)

Ramius said:


> That's why I said rate, mate. Specifically rate. Because they vary in size and number of characters greatly. And no, OP doesn't.
> I mean, may be you like rehashed developments taken from previous characters and pasted into others in later arcs with slight variations, I don't.



What rehashed developments?


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Jul 5, 2015)

Marineford is a bad arc.


----------



## Freechoice (Jul 5, 2015)

maybe there is something I missed in FMA, why do people like it so?

did I miss something

even on mal it's one of the highest ever


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Jul 5, 2015)

lol said:


> maybe there is something I missed in FMA, why do people like it so?
> 
> did I miss something
> 
> even on mal it's one of the highest ever



It's ranked number one lol.

Gintama is also really high I do need to read it at some point I keep pushing it off.


----------



## God Movement (Jul 5, 2015)

Gummo said:


> It's like trying to compare apples and oranges
> 
> *One Piece is for kids, HxH ain't..*



        .


----------



## Impact (Jul 5, 2015)

Gummo said:


> It's like trying to compare apples and oranges
> 
> One Piece is for kids, HxH ain't..



Okay who dupe is this


----------



## Shukaku_Demon (Jul 5, 2015)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Marineford is a bad arc.


----------



## Gunners (Jul 5, 2015)

Full Metal Alchemist edges out HxH, due to Togashi's lack of discipline, and HxH is superior to One Piece.


----------



## Impact (Jul 5, 2015)

Shukaku_Demon said:


>



You're saying it's not?


----------



## Sherlōck (Jul 5, 2015)

Gummo said:


> It's like trying to compare apples and oranges
> 
> *One Piece is for kids, HxH ain't.*.


----------



## Shukaku_Demon (Jul 5, 2015)

Impact said:


> You're saying it's not?



Uhhh, yea...how the fuck is Marineford a bad arc? It told a great story, had an amazing buildup, awesome fight scenes, sad and epic moments. It pretty much had it all. I can understand if you dislike One Piece, but to like One Piece and call Marineford a terrible arc makes zero sense to me. Fuck, this forum has terrible taste now


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## Tenma (Jul 5, 2015)

Marineford isn't bad, like say, Dressrossa or Fishman Island, but it is one helluva clusterfuck. It also started Oda's problem of being unable to stay on a single plotline/place for more than 5 pages, which has led to padding and decompression recently.

For a fight that is basically 90% fighting, none of the fights were actually particularly exciting or well choreographed. The arc generally improves massively once Ace is rescued, and most of the major character beats and memorable moments occur, but everything before that is a mess.

People like it mainly because they got to see all the top tiers in action, even if the action itself is pretty unmemorable outside of battledome debates.


----------



## Fenrir (Jul 5, 2015)

Shukaku_Demon said:


> Uhhh, yea...how the fuck is Marineford a bad arc? It told a great story, had an amazing buildup, awesome fight scenes, sad and epic moments. It pretty much had it all. I can understand if you dislike One Piece, but to like One Piece and call Marineford a terrible arc makes zero sense to me. Fuck, this forum has terrible taste now



It was ass

It was Dressrosa with only slightly less oversaturation and obviously a different aim


----------



## Rob (Jul 5, 2015)

I actually really enjoyed Marineford despite it's inconsistencies. 

Brought out the feels, had some good character interactions and some nice fights. 

Infinitely better than Shitrosa


----------



## Shukaku_Demon (Jul 5, 2015)

Tenma said:


> Marineford isn't bad, like say, Dressrossa or Fishman Island, but *it is one helluva clusterfuck*. It also started Oda's problem of being unable to stay on a single plotline/place for more than 5 pages, which has led to padding and decompression recently.
> 
> For a fight that is basically 90% fighting, none of the fights were actually particularly exciting or well choreographed. The arc generally improves massively once Ace is rescued, and most of the major character beats and memorable moments occur, but everything before that is a mess.
> 
> People like it mainly because they got to see all the top tiers in action, even if the action itself is pretty unmemorable outside of battledome debates.



Of course, it was a clusterfuck...it was war. War is supposed to be a clusterfuck lol. This wasn't supposed to be like Enies lobby where everyone was divided into 1v1's. It was about two large scale opposing forces fighting for separate goals. And for the clusterfuck it was, I felt Oda did a great job at making almost every character feel important or play an important role which is something Kishi failed to do with the Shinobi War arc in Naruto.


----------



## Impact (Jul 5, 2015)

Shukaku_Demon said:


> Uhhh, yea...how the fuck is Marineford a bad arc? It told a great story, had an amazing buildup, awesome fight scenes, sad and epic moments. It pretty much had it all. I can understand if you dislike One Piece, but to like One Piece and call Marineford a terrible arc makes zero sense to me. Fuck, this forum has terrible taste now



> Great story
> Buildup
> Great fight scenes



So how about all of its inconsistencies that it showed


----------



## Dark (Jul 5, 2015)

Gunners said:


> Full Metal Alchemist edges out HxH, due to Togashi's lack of discipline, and HxH is superior to One Piece.



This            .


----------



## Dellinger (Jul 5, 2015)

Impact said:


> > Great story
> > Buildup
> > Great fight scenes
> 
> ...



What inconsistencies?

Marineford served its role pretty well instory.That's why it gets a good rating from me.


----------



## Suit (Jul 5, 2015)

Extravlad said:


> @oOLawlietOo Well it's even possible that Hisoka has already defeated Chrollo.
> He stopped chasing after him during the election arc, and Illumi said he did seach for
> Chrollo when Gon and Killua were fighting against the Chimera Ants;
> 
> ...



Dude, Hisoka isn't fighting Chrollo until Chrollo gets Kurapika's nen exorcised. He doesn't want to fight that empty shell. That's not what Hisoka is all about.



White Hawk said:


> What inconsistencies?



Well, one gigantic one I can think of involves Mihawk (who is supposedly on-par with Yonkou/Admirals) getting seriously stalemated by Vista and generally not having nearly as good a portrayal during the war as he deserved. Then, a chapter or two later, Vista+Marco fail to injure Sakazuki, who shouldn't be stronger than Mihawk by any more than a small difference.

Of course, the scene with Marco and Vista is taken way more seriously than I think it was supposed to. I really think it was just one of Oda's over-exaggerated hype scenes that he has such a bad habit of doing. By any estimate, Marco shouldn't be far from Yonkou-level, and Vista apparently can hang with them himself given his showing against Mihawk.

Then there are the given 9001 PIS moments that shaped the entire war.

Someone else can elaborate further, but that's all I feel like addressing right now.


----------



## PwnGoatVSPandaman (Jul 5, 2015)

Mikon said:


> I didn't name Illumi because he isn't part of the Phantom Troupe, but i prefer him, too
> Thing is that he is one of those characters that you will not see much about him....thus i cannot like him too much..the same case is with Mihawk in One Piece...you see them for like 2 minutes in 100 chapters
> Honestly, everyone has their own definiton of a good antagonist, for me it will be a ruthless villian toying with the protagonist's mind and such...that's why i liked Pain...that's why i like Griffith..
> Johan Liebert is maybe the better example for this, but i really couldn't get through all the hype that the author made about him throughout the series, by every fucking person that Tenma met..."He is the second coming of Hitler!!@!" and some crazy shit like that...it really was cringeworthy at some point and made quite the opposite effect in that regard.



Vampire Knight & Vampire Knight Guilty


----------



## Shukaku_Demon (Jul 5, 2015)

Suit said:


> Dude, Hisoka isn't fighting Chrollo until Chrollo gets Kurapika's nen exorcised. He doesn't want to fight that empty shell. That's not what Hisoka is all about.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



So stupid shit like that can make you dislike an arc? Wtf? First of all, Mihawk didn't really give a darn about stopping the pirates from getting to Ace. He was more there to observe than anything. The only time he seemed interested in fighting was to see if there was something special about Luffy. And if it makes you feel any better, Mihawk was having an in depth thought about how Luffy potentially has the most dangerous power in the world (how people keep constantly coming together to help him) while fighting Vista. So I guess you could say that he wasn't taking his fight against Vista seriously. But Oda even stated that "Akainu is so powerful that he could find the One Piece and become king in a year if he really wanted to" or something along those lines in an interview, so that right there should tell you that Akainu is one of the strongest characters (if not, THE strongest) in OP. Besides, Marineford was more of a preview of things to come than anything. The war was about saving Ace. It wasn't about who was more powerful than who. When Marco and Kizaru fought, did it seem like they were trying to kill each other? No. The only main characters who showed bloodlust during the war were Akainu, Whitebeard (after Akainu killed Ace), and Blackbeard.


----------



## Suit (Jul 5, 2015)

Shukaku_Demon said:


> So stupid shit like that can make you dislike an arc? Wtf? First of all, Mihawk didn't really give a darn about stopping the pirates from getting to Ace. He was more there to observe than anything. The only time he seemed interested in fighting was to see if there was something special about Luffy. And if it makes you feel any better, Mihawk was having an in depth thought about how Luffy potentially has the most dangerous power in the world (how people keep constantly coming together to help him) while fighting Vista. So I guess you could say that he wasn't taking his fight against Vista seriously. But Oda even stated that "Akainu is so powerful that he could find the One Piece and become king in a year if he really wanted to" or something along those lines in an interview, so that right there should tell you that Akainu is one of the strongest characters (if not, THE strongest) in OP. Besides, Marineford was more of a preview of things to come than anything. The war was about saving Ace. It wasn't about who was more powerful than who. When Marco and Kizaru fought, did it seem like they were trying to kill each other? No. The only main characters who showed bloodlust during the war were Akainu, Whitebeard (after Akainu killed Ace), and Blackbeard.



Yeah, you got a point. Being in OL makes me default to the "power levels matter most" mindset because that's OL. Even though technically the thread got moved.

Well, from just a plot perspective, MF was pretty good I guess. Still not as amazing as some make it out to be. I still like all of EB, Alabasta, W7/EL, and Skypiea more.


----------



## LordPerucho (Jul 5, 2015)

OP pretimeskip was one hell of a manga, better than Seinen Mangas like Tokyo Ghoul, Gantz,.

But Overall OP is overrated, there are better Shounen Mangas than OP these days.

AssClass
Magi(if you exclude Alma Toran)
Boku no Hero Academia.
Gintama


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Jul 5, 2015)

LordPerucho said:


> OP pretimeskip was one hell of a manga, better than Seinen Mangas like Tokyo Ghoul, Gantz,.
> 
> But Overall OP is overrated, there are better Shounen Mangas than OP these days.
> 
> ...



AssClass


----------



## Mikon (Jul 5, 2015)

Skypiea is the only arc that i didn't watch at all 
I liked Jaia (the arc with Bellamy) and got hyped for Skypiea...and then after like 10 boring episodes i just went to episode 227 (start of water 7), a good decision 
I was watching the anime at that time and shit was so bad


----------



## Morglay (Jul 5, 2015)

It doesn't have to compete. FMA is finished and Togashi releases chapters so he has enough cash to survive on whilst playing every Dragon Quest ever made for as long as he lives. OP earned most of its rep due to Oda's dedication and consistency (with releases.)


----------



## B Rabbit (Jul 5, 2015)

Which is why One Piece will go down as historically one of the best mangas ever, and eventually mangas like HxH will be forgotten.


----------



## OS (Jul 5, 2015)

Can't exactly compare since the series isn't done. At least to FMA. As compared to HxH I like HxH more but One Piece is much more successful


----------



## Muah (Jul 5, 2015)

I have to watch fma. I've seen bits and pieces of its mediocrity  but never all together. Fma is like inyuyasha level.


----------



## Shukaku_Demon (Jul 5, 2015)

Mikon said:


> Skypiea is the only arc that i didn't watch at all
> I liked Jaia (the arc with Bellamy) and got hyped for Skypiea...and then after like 10 boring episodes i just went to episode 227 (start of water 7), a good decision
> I was watching the anime at that time and shit was so bad



Skypiea definitely wasn't my favorite and it had a pretty slow start, so I don't blame you for skipping. But Enel was a pretty good villain. The whole arc had you believe that he was basically unstoppable until Luffy (his natural enemy*rubber) confronted him for the first time. Overall, I felt it had a good theme basically telling us to never give up on our dreams (The city of Gold being real and the ringing of the bell) and told a great story. You should go back and watch from the point where Luffy meets Enel for the first time or at least read it.

My ranking of One Piece sagas goes like this:

1) War of the Best (SA - Marineford)
2) Water 7 (Water 7 - Enies Lobby)
3) Pirate Alliance (Punk Hazard - Dressrosa)
4) Alabasta (Little Garden - Alabasta)
5) Fishman Island (Beginning of time skip - Fishman Island)
6) Thriller Bark
7) Sky Island (Jaya - Skypiea)
8) East Blue (Beginning of OP - Arlong Park)
9) Grand Line (Logue Town - Whiskey Peak)

And yea, I know most won't agree with this list of mine, but it's just my opinion (don't really understand all the hate for the timeskip, I'm loving it so far). I didn't add the small arc with Foxy because I've never seen it. Looks like an arc that should be filler imo.


----------



## Ramius (Jul 5, 2015)

White Hawk said:


> What rehashed developments?



For instance, what's her name Rebecca from Dressrosa is just Vivi with a small variation that she's a coliseum fighter instead. But no wait, she's actually a princess too

Anyway, the big majority of villains are boring. Maccaroni dude was boring, everyone from CP9 not called Kaku, Rob and Spandam was boring. Everybody but Eminem in Skypeia was boring. (I have to struggle to even slightly recall their names, I remember the fat dude Yama and that's it)

That's where my 'rate' comes from. There's so many of them, and the majority are boring and extremely forgettable. 

I'm not really keen on arguing on these points. may be I'm wrong. May be it's just been very long, may be One Piece has gotten more and more immature as it progressed for me, may be my tastes are different in the meantime, may be I'm not really sold anymore on all the crazy but very childish shit going on in One Piece anymore.

HxH has kept me entertained, because the scale of the fights is usually very low and it's less about super crazy spaghetti ^ (use bro) or le big mouth guy and more about a more "grounded" approach in everything.


----------



## LordPerucho (Jul 5, 2015)

Manga speaking, Pretimeskip OP beats Hxh in terms of Art(lol scribbles), and pacing, yes OP had better pacing pretimeskip.

Anime speaking, HxH curbstomps OP completely.

HxH is gonna more remembered for the anime. Which had one of the best fights in the history of animation in Meruem vs Netero.


----------



## Empathy (Jul 5, 2015)

Palm Siberia said:


> Death Note > All other shounen



Death Note, I thought declined in quality as it went on. Not that it wasn't good when it ended, I just didn't think it was nearly as good compared to when it started. I think it hit its high point early on, waned slightly during the Memory arc, and then declined noticeably after the time-skip. It was still great after the time-skip though, just not as good. But Death Note isn't a battle manga.



kidgogeta said:


> One Piece succeeds in broad appeal, but  isn't on the level of stuff like Brotherhood , HxH, Gintama, Steins , Code Geass.
> 
> Oda does a lot of things right like world building, cool moments, fan service, etc  but that only puts it at the top of the trash heap ( Naruto, Bleach, Fairy Tail, Shingeki).



Besides popularity, what exactly lumps Shingeki in with Naruto, Bleach, and Fairy Tail (a tad unfair to current Bleach, too)? I know the Uprising arc wasn't the best, but it wasn't all bad and had its moments (although, a whole chapter dedicated to torture was a chore to read). Everything before the Uprising arc I thought has been consistently great, and I'm still excited for the next arc now that the Uprising arc is over.


----------



## Mikon (Jul 5, 2015)

One Piece pre TS is really in a league of his own, while HxH was never that amazing to my opinion.
Sure it was great, but i will not put it higher than Part 1 Naruto, and i'm not even including the Chimera arc (which was kind of meh for me)

To me it goes like this - Part 1 OP = 10, current OP = 9.5, HxH excluding Chimera arc = 9.5, current HxH = 9, FMAB = 9 (just can't stand the final arc)

EDIT:

and why would SNK be in the same tier as the shitteist battle shounen mangas? lmao
I like both Gintama and Code Geass, and OP is in the very same tier as them to me(atleast prime OP)
Couldn't say the same for SG, HXH and FMAB, which are such an overrated shows
I love all of them, but they have problems (with SG the case is a little different, because while not having any problems with the show, it just wasn't that good until the mid of the series, and even then, it was just good atbest, Mayuri's scene was done well, and that's it, tbh)


----------



## Kellogem (Jul 5, 2015)

all I can say is I prefer FMA over HxH...

as for OP, I stopped reading it around the time they were escaping from that prison and the walking poison dude was chasing them..

I kind of got tired of all the weird shit in OP, the constant clusterfuck, creepy/bizarre designs and melodrama where everyone is crying their eyes out like the author is shoving the drama down your throat, like "ISNT IT SAD BUT INSPIRING???!!" ... also I felt like the arcs are repeating themselves after a while, the underlying tones are being the same with different setting and characters..  

though I have to admit it had some great ideas and arcs, especially at the beginning, like the one with Crocodile.. but even in those I could cut down like 70% of it I wouldnt miss. 

maybe Im going to read that war arc.. I just wish the designs wouldnt be that weird, call me shallow but I like my characters being human-like... and less strange-comedy shit.

FMA:B is among my favorite mangas (I like D. Gray-man and Magi more though)... its on the level of Psyren and Claymore for me. then HxH which is good, but I find overrated with lots of wasted potential (stuff which might be cliches and make it more generic, but things people like for a reason, like the arcs having actual climaxes which HxH arcs tend to not have..important characters having a decent fight...stuff like that.
..also it also have a bad case of weird, irrelevant characters imo even if to a lesser extent than OP)..


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Jul 5, 2015)

I  heard d gray man went to shit.


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## Mikon (Jul 5, 2015)

Magi was good overall, but not on the same level of FMAB and HxH (I am talking about the anime of Magi, because the manga is a different story from what i heard) and the anime of D Gray Man ended horribly :/


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## kidgogeta (Jul 5, 2015)

B Rabbit said:


> Which is why One Piece will go down as historically one of the best mangas ever, and eventually mangas like HxH will be forgotten.



We aren't talking about popularity. One Piece is by far the most popular manga of all time. But Fairy Tail and Sao have taught us that popularity doesn't really speak much for the quality of a series.

When One Piece actually gets broken down and rated as a whole by people who've actually read/watched a sizeable amount of manga / anime, it doesn't even scratch top 10 of all time on many lists.

People in this thread should recognize the distinction between popularity and quality. When scored on things like storytelling and character quality One Piece doesn't even do THAT well. It's an above average show. That's great, but in this thread we are comparing it to the best of the best. 

Quite frankly, no present or future adaption of One Piece will ever be regarded as a master piece like Madhouse HxH.


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## Morglay (Jul 6, 2015)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> I  heard d gray man went to shit.



It did. Extreme shit tier.


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## Patrick (Jul 6, 2015)

FMA, HxH and OP are some of the best Shounen of all time. HxH and OP are quite similar, it usually comes down to opinion which people prefer. I personally like OP more because of a more coherent main story, more consistent release and more versatile characters. Though, HxH has better character interaction for example. So it's really just what you look for in a manga.


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## Kellogem (Jul 6, 2015)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> I  heard d gray man went to shit.



I didnt notice..

there was a couple of bad arcs after the level 4 arc as it was plagued by hiatuses and were filleristic..

I liked Alma Karma arc after that and think it received a lot of hate just because of the breaks and monthly release and whatnot. people should read it at once.. I remember they kept complaining they dont remember shit from previous chapter and everything is a clusterfuck, I have it in volume and everything makes sense.. art looks better as well.



Mikon said:


> Magi was good overall, but not on the same level of FMAB and HxH (I am talking about the anime of Magi, because the manga is a different story from what i heard) and the anime of D Gray Man ended horribly :/



I meant manga Magi of course.. few mangas have royal treatment like HxH and FMA:B had when it comes to adaptation..

weird people say anime DGM ended horribly, when it was one of the few cases they made the right decision - instead of a filler ending, they closed it as the arc was coming to an end and the last couple of eps had much better production values. the fight with the level 4 looked awesome, especially compared to the animation before. so what exactly was horrible in it other than not getting a decent ending story-wise?


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## Mikon (Jul 6, 2015)

Kell?gem said:


> I didnt notice..
> 
> there was a couple of bad arcs after the level 4 arc as it was plagued by hiatuses and were filleristic..
> 
> ...



I watched it a long time ago, and i just remember that the whole show felt kind of pointless because of the ending, and i didn't like it (don't know anything about the manga, though)


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## Suit (Jul 6, 2015)

Muah said:


> I have to watch fma. I've seen bits and pieces of its mediocrity  but never all together. Fma is like inyuyasha level.



Nah, Inuyasha > FMA


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## Mikon (Jul 6, 2015)

Is Inuyasha even any good by people's current standards?


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## Suit (Jul 6, 2015)

It's shaky, but overall, I like it. So far, anyway. I'm taking a long break from it for reasons pertaining to internet limitations.

Some episodes are absolutely amazing though. The soul piper ep was easily one of the best I've seen in any anime.


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## Mikon (Jul 6, 2015)

I always thought that things like Inuyasha, Yu Yu Hakushu and DBZ should stay in the nostalgia area
Then i watched DBKai and The final act arc of Inuyasha (left both of them mid way), and they were kind of meh 
Maybe i will rewatch YYH, because it's Togashi...but it's a shame that the studio of YYH is not Madhouse
Is Elfen Lied/Vampire Knight worth rewatching? My first anime


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## Suit (Jul 6, 2015)

Whoa whoa WHOA

YYH is not good because of nostalgia. YYH is good because it's fucking amazing. Never make that mistake again.

I'll leave DBZ and Inuyasha for your own personal judgement, but YYH is completely based even by modern standards.


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## LordPerucho (Jul 6, 2015)

Mikon said:


> Is Inuyasha even any good by people's current standards?



Repetitive.

The best thing of the series was the development of Sango and Kohaku.


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## Orca (Jul 6, 2015)

I've always preferred DBZ over YYH. YYH I feel always left something to be desired as far exploring it's world and stuff. Also the fights are less epic imo.


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## Mikon (Jul 6, 2015)

A friend of mine said that the last arc of YYH was kind of a mess


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## Orca (Jul 6, 2015)

Mikon said:


> A friend of mine said that the last arc of YYH was kind of a mess



I've seen a lot of people like it. Personally I haven't finished that arc yet. The pacing at the beginning was weird and I was just burnt out. Plus that arc wasn't as hyped as say the Dark tournament. I'll probably watch it someday.


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## Kellogem (Jul 6, 2015)

so is OP bad now or what?

I remember a couple of years ago all the GODa across the forum... now I dont hear it anymore.

if you would have to compare its quality in the last couple of years to Naruto or Bleach, how is it? better than naruto war arc? worse than bleach war arc?


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## Mikon (Jul 6, 2015)

Dressrosa is still better than the war arc of Naruto/Bleach, lmao
To me it was just boring, cliche and had too many characters that no one cares about + PIS


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## Xiammes (Jul 6, 2015)

Mikon said:


> A friend of mine said that the last arc of YYH was kind of a mess



I love the final arc, but I do get why people say this. Its kinda rushed and focuses on Hiei and Kurama's development while also exploring the politics of the demon world. It ends with a demon world tournament where things are wrapped up neatly into a bow. Also the final 10 or so chapters was never animated so the series felt like it had a rushed ending. 

My two favorite arcs were chapter black and dark tournament, but chapter black can be confusing and considering toonami stopped having a consistent airing schedule, you would catch a episode and it would be 20 episodes ahead of what you last watched.

I suggest you watch the series from scratch, don't jump into it where you left off.


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## LordPerucho (Jul 6, 2015)

Mikon said:


> Dressrosa is still better than the war arc of Naruto/Bleach, lmao
> To me it was just boring, cliche and had too many characters that no one cares about + PIS



Laws flashback was the only memorable thing of Dressrosa Arc besides G4.


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## Mikon (Jul 6, 2015)

LordPerucho said:


> Laws flashback was the only memorable thing of Dressrosa Arc besides G4.



Well, Sabo's appearance might be one of those memorable things, too
I didn't care about Law's past, tbh (G4 was meh)


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## Esdese (Jul 6, 2015)

>Inuyasha
>good


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## Dellinger (Jul 6, 2015)

LordPerucho said:


> Laws flashback was the only memorable thing of Dressrosa Arc besides G4.



Doflamingo is a gem of villain.Fujitora's plot was good too.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Jul 7, 2015)

White Hawk said:


> Doflamingo is a gem of villain.Fujitora's plot was good too.



Fujitora and Sabo should of never been in dressrosa


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## Hamtaro (Jul 7, 2015)

Mikon said:


> Dressrosa is still better than the war arc of Naruto/Bleach, lmao



Naruto and Bleach are both bad, and those are bad arcs within their respective series, so that doesn't mean much.


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## Uraharа (Jul 7, 2015)

Mikon said:


> A friend of mine said that the last arc of YYH was kind of a mess



I liked it, but it had more potential. It was supposed to be a war arc, but ended up as a rushed tournament arc with random competitors popping out of nowhere(I think we only knew like 8 characters, the rest we saw a few days after the tournament announcement.) Everything before the tournament was very good in my eyes.


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## Mikon (Jul 7, 2015)

HamSloth said:


> Naruto and Bleach are both bad, and those are bad arcs within their respective series, so that doesn't mean much.



When i said that Dressrosa is better than those arcs, i just meant that it's better than shit tier arcs, not that it's somewhat of a decent arc 

My favorite arcs in anime are the Hunt for Itachi arc (Shippuden), Golden age arc (Berserk), Enies Lobby arc (OP), and Four Devas arc in Gintama (I think that Yoshiwara is better action wise, and better overall, but Gintoki's moment vs Jirocho was awesome, and feels tho)

I will rewatch YYH once i finish reading Vagabond...is TOG got any good? dropped it in Ran vs Anak (if i remember the names correctly)


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## Mikon (Jul 7, 2015)

roflmao my mistake, delete


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## Lit (Jul 9, 2015)

You know, HxH would have been on the exact same level as One Piece right now if Togashi didn't constantly go on hiatus like he did. From the get go he should have just hired another artist to produce his story and maybe then we wouldn't have to deal with the scribbles he's given us over the years. If the art was amazing and HxH constantly came out weekly or monthly then it would have had the potential to bash Naruto in to pieces (Especially considering how Naruto stole many ideas from HxH). 

But of course, none of this happened, which is exactly why One Piece is better.  But new mangas have the potential to reach One Piece's standards, like Boku no Hero Academia for instance. So we'll see how that works.


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## Palm Siberia (Jul 9, 2015)

Honestly quality is more enjoyable for me personally than quantity  sure I like DBZ, HXH, and OP, but I do enjoy more smaller scale shounen stories as well.


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## Kuro Ashi (Sep 30, 2015)

One Piece isn't nearly as good in terms of consistent quality but I feel like that's due mainly to the length. It'll be hard to keep consistency at high going onward through a 800 chapter series. Even amazing other series like Berserk has shown a dip in pacing lately or at least after the Golden Age arc (mainly because of how well written the Golden age arc is). 

One reason why people keep One Piece high is because the way it flows through seems more organized than others. The reason why long Shounen like Naruto make people want to slit their wrist due to length is because Kishi looks like he makes things up on the spot. See gOda has sense and actually planned his story out from the beginning or at least had a general outline that didn't include Bijuu bombs.


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## sasykei (Nov 9, 2015)

Who honestly thinks any other series can come even close to One Piece? Sales speak for themselves as factual information.


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## Rica_Patin (Nov 9, 2015)

sasykei said:


> Who honestly thinks any other series can come even close to Twilight? Sales speak for themselves as factual information.



I love One Piece, but your argument is fucking dumb.


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## Hamtaro (Nov 9, 2015)

Lit said:


> You know, HxH would have been on the exact same level as One Piece right now if Togashi didn't constantly go on hiatus like he did.



HxH quality would really be taking a nose dive to be the same quality as OP right now.

Better for it stay on hiatus than that.


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## Aduro (Nov 9, 2015)

One Piece is totally outclassed by FMA. Here's one little example. 

I remember one line where Hoenheim revealed that he's a philosopher's stone and Alphonse believes him in a really matter-of-fact way, noting that its logical based on the extraordinary people Alphonse has seen (and in-fact is). 

If Oda had paid attention to that panel then maybe everyone in One Piece wouldn't annoyingly overreact so much to every weirdo in a series where seeing people like fishmen and all kinds of devil fruit users should be practically a daily occurrence. I mean how can Oda expect people to be shocked by something like a giant being twice as large when the old ones were already massive by human standards.



Kuro Ashi said:


> One reason why people keep One Piece high is because the way it flows through seems more organized than others. The reason why long Shounen like Naruto make people want to slit their wrist due to length is because Kishi looks like he makes things up on the spot. See gOda has sense and actually planned his story out from the beginning or at least had a general outline that didn't include Bijuu bombs.



That's because organising the protagonists character development in One Piece for example is like organising a fall off a cliff. Their introduction and flashbacks are the push which might require little thought, But after that Its not going anywhere unexpected so its dead easy to understand and there's nothing between the fall person and the ground that will alter their direction so Oda doesn't need to put any sign posts on the way. The vast majority of the OP forum is power-level discussion because the only question is who is falling the fastest with nothing much else to say about it. If you disagree ask yourself this: *"Would any decision Luffy has made since he met Zoro be different if he had the same powers and information but had all of his current character development"*. Because that's why Luffy is so incredibly boring to me.


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