# Biblical satan vs DBZ



## Azrael Finalstar (Jan 9, 2010)

Whatever you do here, you must support.


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## Ultimate Deathsaurer (Jan 9, 2010)

This is a joke right?


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## Azrael Finalstar (Jan 9, 2010)

Ultimate Deathsaurer said:


> This is a joke right?


nope. I know the devil should be able to win, but i need verse support.


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## Zetta (Jan 9, 2010)

...

What feats does Lucifer actually have? My bible is not that good.


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## Ulti (Jan 9, 2010)

I think he destroyed 1/3 of the universe with a swing of his tail or something.


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## Quelsatron (Jan 9, 2010)

Ultimecia said:


> I think he destroyed 1/3 of the universe with a swing of his tail or something.



Yeah, snuffed out 1/3 of the stars in the sky IIRC


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## Genyosai (Jan 9, 2010)

If I remember correctly, Biblical Satan only has feats relating to deception. I guess that's enough, without bringing in non-canonical sources, since he could act unseen and corrupt everyone anyway. Since he is the Devil, even Goku's pure heart should be corruptible by him.

Revelations doesn't really count, since the omens are never clearly identified as Satan.


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## Azrael Finalstar (Jan 9, 2010)

and IIRC, that meant he took 1/3 of the angels with him. Honestly, through powescaling alone, he takes this, but i'm pretty sure he needs God's permission to test someone or something.


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## Ulti (Jan 9, 2010)

What kind of shit do the horseman of the apocalypse have going for them?


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## Ultimate Deathsaurer (Jan 9, 2010)

Genyosai said:


> If I remember correctly, Biblical Satan only has feats relating to deception. I guess that's enough, without bringing in non-canonical sources, since he could act unseen and corrupt everyone anyway. Since he is the Devil, even Goku's pure heart should be corruptible by him.



No... There was actually someone that didn't give into him despite a horrible amount of psychological torture. Then there was Jesus.


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## Azrael Finalstar (Jan 9, 2010)

They are metaphorical. If you take them literally, they start wars and bring plagues.


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## Genyosai (Jan 9, 2010)

Revelations is written using VERY cryptic language. It's more like a book of omens hinting at what apocalypses will await.


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## Azrael Finalstar (Jan 9, 2010)

Genyosai said:


> Revelations is written using VERY cryptic language. It's more like a book of omens hinting at what apocalypses will await.


I have freinds who interpret much of it as having already happened.


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## Ultimate Deathsaurer (Jan 9, 2010)

hadomaru said:


> I have freinds who interpret much of it as having already happened.



Please, oh please don't start that...


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## Quelsatron (Jan 9, 2010)

Ultimecia said:


> What kind of shit do the horseman of the apocalypse have going for them?



Well, for starters, they are the antropomorphical personifications of War, Famine, Pestilence and, of course, DEATH. (I have no idea otherwise)


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## Azrael Finalstar (Jan 9, 2010)

Ultimate Deathsaurer said:


> Please, oh please don't start that...


don't worry, i won't.


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## Genyosai (Jan 9, 2010)

Quelsatron said:


> Well, for starters, they are the antropomorphical personifications of War, Famine, Pestilence and, of course, DEATH. (I have no idea otherwise)



You could consider them the way comic books have treat this: having actual concepts embodied as abstract beings, but then that's just another interpretation of something which is an omen/representation.


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## Azrael Finalstar (Jan 9, 2010)

The whole book of revelation is kinda a mindscrew. He apparently has control of nature as per Job. He's Called the god of this world. and i think the god of the air.


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## ∅ (Jan 9, 2010)

Stars in the bible are not gaseous spheres consisting primarily of hydrogen and helium, but rather angels. How powerful are angels? Each of them is as powerful as a legion of men and Satan was among the more powerful ones before he was striped of his glory.

Really I see no reason for why the biblical Satan would win.


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## Quelsatron (Jan 9, 2010)

∅ said:


> Stars in the bible are not gaseous spheres consisting primarily of hydrogen and helium, but rather angels. How powerful are angels? Each of them is as powerful as a legion of men and Satan was among the more powerful ones before he was striped of his glory.
> 
> Really I see no reason for why the biblical Satan would win.



On the topic of angels, were'nt there some angles that trumpeted their horns, with results like 1/3 of all the trees in the world dying, 1/3 of the earths population dying from pestilence, etcetera?


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## paulatreides0 (Jan 9, 2010)

Genyosai said:


> If I remember correctly, Biblical Satan only has feats relating to deception. I guess that's enough, without bringing in non-canonical sources, since he could act unseen and corrupt everyone anyway. Since he is the Devil, even Goku's pure heart should be corruptible by him.
> 
> Revelations doesn't really count, since the omens are never clearly identified as Satan.



he can only corrupt you if you choose to. he tempts and...i dont see much he could use against goku. at most he just holds his family hostage to make him angry and attack and he (goku) loses horribly


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## Belly Ranks (Jan 9, 2010)

Quelsatron said:


> On the topic of angels, were'nt there some angles that trumpeted their horns, with results like 1/3 of all the trees in the world dying, 1/3 of the earths population dying from pestilence, etcetera?



That's not really going to happen, its a parable it has a hidden meaning and has not yet happened.

A good enough feat to powerscale from would be Sodom and Ghomorrah, where 2 angels destroyed the large cities in minutes using asteroids.

Another good feat would be turning people into stone.

In the story of Job, he made Job catch multiple sicknesses on a whim, he could infect the whole verse with Abolla fever or something. And it would never be cured until he wishes it.

IIRC one of the only real differences between Satan and God is that he can't create life. So I am assuming he can do just about everything God can.


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## ∅ (Jan 9, 2010)

I'm not sure but when I see a "vs. Dragonball thread" I expect opponents able to destroy stars or at the very least planets.


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## Narcissus (Jan 9, 2010)

∅ said:


> I'm not sure but when I see a "vs. Dragonball thread" I expect opponents able to destroy stars or at the very least planets.



Well that's pretty bad reasoning.


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## Medusa (Jan 9, 2010)

wow this thread is retarded..


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## ∅ (Jan 9, 2010)

Narcissus said:


> Well that's pretty bad reasoning.


I'm sure Nagato could rip the soul out of the characters' carcasses if they let him.

Then again I think you're referring to characters like modern Flash, for which I just envision Freeza when he destroys planet Vegeta in that movie special. But I'll avoid that argument here for obvious reasons.


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## Quelsatron (Jan 9, 2010)

∅ said:


> I'm sure Nagato could rip the soul out of the characters' carcasses if they let him.
> 
> Then again I think you're referring to characters like modern Flash, for which I just envision Freeza when he destroys planet Vegeta in that movie special. But I'll avoid that argument here for obvious reasons.



Well, hax is one way to contend with foes with a destructive capacity a couple billions higher. And the devil seems to be mostly about hax, though he wansn't really intended to do battle in the OBD way.


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## Narcissus (Jan 9, 2010)

∅ said:


> I'm sure Nagato could rip the soul out of the characters' carcasses if they let him.
> 
> Then again I think you're referring to characters like modern Flash, for which I just envision Freeza when he destroys planet Vegeta in that movie special. But I'll avoid that argument here for obvious reasons.



Actually it's bad reasoning for a couple of reasons, though you managed to get one of them.

The one you got was when a character has enough of a hax or broken power to deal with DBZ characters. In other words, you pretty much only included destructive power in your line of thinking.

The other thing is that you generalized by saying "DBZ." Not every character in DBZ is a planet buster, and thus a planet buster would not always be needed to fight against them.


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## ∅ (Jan 9, 2010)

Narcissus said:


> Actually it's bad reasoning for a couple of reasons, though you managed to get one of them.


There are other reasons than broken powers?



Narcissus said:


> The one you got was when a character has enough of a hax or broken power to deal with DBZ characters. In other words, you pretty much only included destructive power in your line of thinking.


I only included that line of thinking since I didn't go into detail. I further noted that Nagato could kill them during the right conditions.



Narcissus said:


> The other thing is that you generalized by saying "DBZ." Not every character in DBZ is a planet buster, and thus a planet buster would not always be needed to fight against them.


DBZ as in the universe, all characters at once as in this thread.

When a power level of less than 200 is required to destroy moons and Freeza's fodder units were in the thousands you could say that there's more than a hand full.


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## Narcissus (Jan 9, 2010)

∅ said:


> There are other reasons than broken powers?



For the other reason I already stated, yes.




> I only included that line of thinking since I didn't go into detail. I further noted that Nagato could kill them during the right conditions.



Even if you go into detail, that line of thinking is still wrong because there are other ways of dealing with DBZ characters than destructive force. And you only included Nagato (A-HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA) after I called you out.



> DBZ as in the universe, all characters at once as in this thread.



Then you should have specified, but fair enough.



> When a power level of less than 200 is required to destroy moons and Freeza's fodder units were in the thousands you could say that there's more than a hand full.



It's obvious that there is a hand full of planet busters in DBZ, but that's not the point. As I said, not everyone in DBZ is a planet buster.


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## ∅ (Jan 9, 2010)

Narcissus said:


> For the other reason I already stated, yes.


No, you just mentioned broken powers.



Narcissus said:


> Even if you go into detail, that line of thinking is still wrong because there are other ways of dealing with DBZ characters than destructive force.


I guess, but generally that's what it boils down to.



Narcissus said:


> And you only included Nagato (A-HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA) after I called you out.


A-haha indeed, it's not like you made any specification and it's not as if I was defining the criteria required to be a worthy opponent.



Narcissus said:


> Then you should have specified, but fair enough.


How could a "-vs Dragonball" thread be interpreted as anything else? Besides, how else would this be relevant to the topic.


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## Soledad Eterna (Jan 9, 2010)

Biblical Satan it's the ultimate embodiment of evil that corrupts people against God. He wins this battle rather easily.


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## Narcissus (Jan 9, 2010)

∅ said:


> No, you just mentioned broken powers.



No, I mentioned the fact that not every character in DBZ can destroy a  planet.



> I guess, but generally that's what it boils down to.



No it doesn't. DBZ characters have either lost or at least  been well-challenged by characters with broken powers.



> A-haha indeed, it's not like you made any specification and it's not as if I was defining the criteria required to be a worthy opponent.



Regardless, you could have used an example that wasn't so laughable. Here, I'll give you one.

Ban Mido can not destroy planets, but his abilities allow him to alter reality so that he could does not lose.



> How could a "-vs Dragonball" thread be interpreted as anything else? Besides, how else would this be relevant to the topic.



As I said, you generalized. It could have been taken as characters from the DBZverse, or the entire verse itself. Which is why I said "fair enough."

And considering the way you've taken many threads off-topic before, let's not go there.


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## Fang (Jan 9, 2010)

I hate this thread.


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## Narcissus (Jan 9, 2010)

TWF said:


> I hate this thread.



It's a hadomaru thread, Fang.

We all do.


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## Ultimate Deathsaurer (Jan 9, 2010)

TWF said:


> I hate this thread.



You aint the only one...


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## Soledad Eterna (Jan 9, 2010)

I see that everyone hates religion here.


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## ∅ (Jan 9, 2010)

Narcissus said:


> No, I mentioned the fact that not every character in DBZ can destroy a  planet.


This as exactly what to do with attributes that can be used to defeat the entire Dragonball universe?



Narcissus said:


> No it doesn't. DBZ characters have either lost or at least  been well-challenged by characters with broken powers.


I already denoted broken powers.



Narcissus said:


> Regardless, you could have used an example that wasn't so laughable. Here, I'll give you one.


Does it really matter? Most characters with broken abilities are laughable.


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## Prowler (Jan 9, 2010)

He was the Morning star after all, the most powerful angel in heaven. 
This is a fight we can't even consider, Satan is like some kind of powerful being that only God can be above him. 
I guess if god wants Goku or Vegeta or any other character to take him out, they could do it.


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## Ultimate Deathsaurer (Jan 9, 2010)

veget0010 said:


> I see that everyone hates religion here.



Great conclusion! Now why don't you explain to us how you reached it...


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## Narcissus (Jan 9, 2010)

veget0010 said:


> I see that everyone hates religion here.



Actually, it has more to do with this:

FTL



∅ said:


> This as exactly what to do with attributes that can be used to defeat the entire Dragonball universe?



Remember, I said that when I went off the thought that you meant characters  from DBZ and not the entire verse itself.



> I already denoted broken powers.



But what you said was that it usually came down to destructive power anyway, in which case, you are wrong.



> Does it really matter? Most characters with broken abilities are laughable.





I wasn't talking about the character himself (though Nagato is a laughable character). The example was bad because Nagato is someone who would never beat DBZ despite having some broken powers. I gave you an example of a character who could pull it off with his.

See the difference?


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## Abigail (Jan 9, 2010)

TWF said:


> I hate this thread.



The best post in this thread.


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## Ultimate Deathsaurer (Jan 9, 2010)

Narcissus said:


> Actually, it has more to do with this:
> 
> FTL



Fuck you! I was going to have some fun with that...



Abigail said:


> The best post in this thread.



Surely "This is a joke right?" is worthy of mention.


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## Endless Mike (Jan 9, 2010)

Please no more religion threads


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## Hellspawn28 (Jan 9, 2010)

Even thought The Devil wins, but be to fair the whole universe thing mention in the bible is nothing special seeing at the time when it was made people had no idea was beyond the moon. I argee that Religion battle threads should be banned.


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## DIY Death (Jan 9, 2010)

Quelsatron said:


> Well, hax is one way to contend with foes with a destructive capacity a couple billions higher. And the devil seems to be mostly about hax, though he wansn't really intended to do battle in the OBD way.



I find it hilarious that I create a SSJ4 thread vs Narutoverse based on this entire principal with the odds stacked in Narutoverse and yet I get mass negs for it while no one agrees only to see someone admit that the premise isn't as flawed as most believed.

OK I'm done my bitching now. and Satan wins this for reasona already stated.


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## Endless Mike (Jan 9, 2010)

That's because Narutoverse is way too slow.


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## Red (Jan 9, 2010)

Revelations shouldn't count, everything was a metaphor. Without revelations the biblical Satan doesn't really have much feats.


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## DIY Death (Jan 9, 2010)

Endless Mike said:


> That's because Narutoverse is way too slow.



I agree except SSJ4 Gogeta is cocky and plays with his food before he eats it so the thread boiled down to what will happen first: hax soul rip or SSJ4 sneezing. It was a perfectly valid thread and both sides could be argued legitimately but it didn't matter apparently.

Its kinda stupid how that worked out.

I agree with Red. We need revelations to make this a battle(which is what my opinion was based off of).


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## Narcissus (Jan 9, 2010)

DIY Death, stop babbling nonsense.

The Narutoverse has some hax, but no where near good enough to stand up to the power of DBZ characters. There are many other works of fiction that have far more broken powers than Naruto. And, as Mike pointed out, they lack the speed. 

Now, stop flaunting your ignorance around and stop whining. No one cares.


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## Endless Mike (Jan 9, 2010)

Besides CIS is off by default.


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## Lucaniel (Jan 9, 2010)

I like how Griffith vs. OPverse is a terrible thread, but SSJ4 Gogeta vs. Narutoverse is just fine.


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## strongarm85 (Jan 9, 2010)

DIY Death said:


> I agree except SSJ4 Gogeta is cocky and plays with his food before he eats it so the thread boiled down to what will happen first: hax soul rip or SSJ4 sneezing. It was a perfectly valid thread and both sides could be argued legitimately but it didn't matter apparently.
> 
> Its kinda stupid how that worked out.
> 
> I agree with Red. We need revelations to make this a battle(which is what my opinion was based off of).



No... no it wouldn't. you deserved those negs.


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## Raigen (Jan 9, 2010)

DevilMan destroys Satan with his DevilMite Beam.


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## Kuya (Jan 9, 2010)

Biblical Satan gets blitzed


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## Hellspawn28 (Jan 9, 2010)

DIY Death said:


> I agree except SSJ4 Gogeta is cocky and plays with his food before he eats it so the thread boiled down to what will happen first: hax soul rip or SSJ4 sneezing. It was a perfectly valid thread and both sides could be argued legitimately but it didn't matter apparently.
> 
> Its kinda stupid how that worked out.
> 
> I agree with Red. We need revelations to make this a battle(which is what my opinion was based off of).



Gogeta fool around with Omega since he thought the fusion would be longer, and knew how Omega Sheron powerful was. The whole Naruto-verse would bounce right off him like Omega Shenron did but a lot quicky. Putting SSj4 Gogeta against the Narutoverse is like putting Marvel's Odin against the DBZGT universe. He is so powerful that he will end up soloing by powering up.


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## Zaelapolopollo (Jan 9, 2010)

Red said:


> Revelations shouldn't count, everything was a metaphor.



Modern mainstream Christianity interpret pretty much everything in The Bible as metaphorical.


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## Havoc (Jan 10, 2010)

The Anti-Existence said:


> Modern mainstream Christianity interpret pretty much everything in The Bible as metaphorical.


Your face is metaphorical.


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## Zaelapolopollo (Jan 10, 2010)

Well it's better than being ugly.

I think?


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## realmathena1 (Jan 10, 2010)

Belly Ranks said:


> That's not really going to happen, its a parable it has a hidden meaning and has not yet happened.
> 
> A good enough feat to powerscale from would be Sodom and Ghomorrah, where 2 angels destroyed the large cities in minutes using asteroids.
> 
> ...



Ok, first where is states satan cant create life?

Second where is stated he has all God's abilities?

I assume we are taking Satan PRE-fallen because post-fallen Satan lost a lot of his power, he became only prince of the world and principality of the air. Also where did the idea of "satan second to God" came from? Satan didnt even reached God's throne he didnt even fought him, neither he was near he was defeated in his most powerful form (Pre-fall) by Michael an Archangel, which means there are actually guys more powerfull than Satan even pre-fall in the bible, Michael was stronger than Satan, there are hints that point that pre-fall humanity was greater than Satan, if we go to not confirmed cannon sources like the book of Enoch we have Metatron a beign that was exalted to Godhood (yet he is still inferior to God) Im pretty sure Metatron could own Satan anyday, in Apocalypse he was defeated by fire coming from the the sky. I am curious where is stated Satan cant create life? I think he can but still he is way inferior to God and other beigns I dont see him higher than Yuki with Haruhi's power to give an example.

And agree religion threads should be banned, I mean what is next Golden Body Swami Ramalinga vs HST?!


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## Kusogitsune (Jan 10, 2010)

Ultimate Deathsaurer said:


> No... There was actually someone that didn't give into him despite a horrible amount of psychological torture. Then there was Jesus.



Who? I mean, besides Jesus?


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## Platinum (Jan 10, 2010)

Protip.

Religious threads and the OBD do not mix well.


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## Quelsatron (Jan 10, 2010)

Platinum said:


> Protip.
> 
> Religious threads and the OBD do not mix well.



Mythology however is clear to go


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## Zaelapolopollo (Jan 10, 2010)

Religion is mythology....

FYI, I am spiritual but to the people who don't believe in your religion, it's just a myth.


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## Kusogitsune (Jan 10, 2010)

Platinum said:


> Protip.
> 
> Religious threads and the OBD do not mix well.



Religious threads don't mix well pretty much anywhere on NF.


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## realmathena1 (Jan 10, 2010)

Is this pre-fallen Satan or post-fallen? And by the way who said he cant create life? and again who said he is second to God?


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## Shoddragon (Jan 10, 2010)

curbstomp in favor of DBZ. at best, Bible God created the planets and the sun in like a full 6 days or something. Satan is below him. There are multiple planet busters in DBZ.

goku blows up the planet and satan dies. besides: satan has shown very little power and was more of a deceiver because his power was nothing compared to god's. if he could have, he would have conquered earth but was unable too. either he simply wasn't strong enough to ( meaning pre- guns world> satan) or god prevented him. either way, feats make this battle a horrific curbstomp for DBZ.


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## Shoddragon (Jan 10, 2010)

Raigen said:


> DevilMan destroys Satan with his DevilMite Beam.



fuck, that actually work .


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## Ultimate Deathsaurer (Jan 10, 2010)

Kusogitsune said:


> Who? I mean, besides Jesus?


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## ∅ (Jan 10, 2010)

Narcissus said:


> I wasn't talking about the character himself (though Nagato is a laughable character).


This I'm actually curious about. Why is Nagato laughable?

Surely not because he was a starved crippling. I found that to be a very smart move on Kishi's part.

After all, why else would he use bodies? The entire purpose of that was because he had lost his legs and wouldn't be able to fight efficiently in person. The idea of having certain advantaged as well as some potential severe weaknesses and making it work is quite rare in manga to my knowledge.



The Anti-Existence said:


> FYI, I am spiritual but to the people who don't believe in your religion, it's just a myth.


I never understood why being spiritual was so appealing. What you feel the wind on your skin and pretend as if there's a supernatural force behind it?

The following post stands for basically all that's wrong with the OBD, and I will go through it point by point.



Prowler said:


> He was the Morning star after all, the most powerful angel in heaven.


Yes, apparently Lucifer was the mightiest of the angels in heaven.



Prowler said:


> This is a fight we can't even consider


No one in their right mind would ever make this statement, regardless of the situation, yet alone use it as a basis for reasoning.



Prowler said:


> Satan is like some kind of powerful being that only God can be above him.


Comparison don't work that way. You can't really say that Lucifer is greater than anyone on the basis that he's beneath YHWH even if he would be YHWH's second.







Prowler said:


> I guess if god wants Goku or Vegeta or any other character to take him out, they could do it.


YHWH isn't in this battle. Even if he was, you'd have to take his inconsistency into account.

In one chapter he's shaping the universe ex nihilo and in another he wrestling against Jacob and even though God cheats he still loses.


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## Fawful (Jan 10, 2010)

Kusogitsune said:


> Religious threads don't mix well pretty much anywhere on NF.



Or pretty much anywhere on the internet.


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## Azrael Finalstar (Jan 10, 2010)

So, using Bible verses i have seen one person scaling him from Sodom and Gomorrah. Not bad.


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## Knight (Jan 10, 2010)

I hate this thread and the topic creator.


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## Azrael Finalstar (Jan 10, 2010)

Knight said:


> I hate this thread and the topic creator.


yeah, And?


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## HeOf7 (Jan 10, 2010)

Revelations chapter 12

And a great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars.

 2 She was pregnant and was crying out in birth pains and the agony of giving birth.

 3 And another sign appeared in heaven: behold, a great red dragon, with seven heads and ten horns, and on his heads seven diadems. 

4 His tail swept down a third of the stars of heaven *and cast them to the earth*. And the dragon stood before the woman who was about to give birth, so that when she bore her child he might devour it. 

5 She gave birth to a male child, one who is to rule all the nations with a rod of iron, but her child was caught up to God and to his throne, 

6 and the woman fled into the wilderness, where she has a place prepared by God, in which she is to be nourished for 1,260 days.


7 Now war arose in heaven, Michael and his angels fighting against the dragon. And the dragon and his angels fought back, 

8 but he was defeated, and there was no longer any place for them in heaven. 

9 And the great dragon was thrown down, that ancient serpent, who is called the devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world—he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him. 

10 And I heard a loud voice in heaven, saying, “Now the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God and the authority of his Christ have come, for the accuser of our brothers [1] has been thrown down, who accuses them day and night before our God.

 11 And they have conquered him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, for they loved not their lives even unto death. 

12 Therefore, rejoice, O heavens and you who dwell in them! But woe to you, O earth and sea, for the devil has come down to you in great wrath, because he knows that his time is short!”

13 And when the dragon saw that he had been thrown down to the earth, he pursued the woman who had given birth to the male child. 

14 But the woman was given the two wings of the great eagle so that she might fly from the serpent into the wilderness, to the place where she is to be nourished for a time, and times, and half a time. 

15 The serpent poured water like a river out of his mouth after the woman, to sweep her away with a flood. 

16 But the earth came to the help of the woman, and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed the river that the dragon had poured from his mouth. 

17 Then the dragon became furious with the woman and went off to make war on the rest of her offspring, on those who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus. And he stood [2] on the sand of the sea.


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## Fullmetal83 (Jan 10, 2010)

You guys are confusing Lucifer with Satan. They are two separate beings.


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## Ultimate Deathsaurer (Jan 10, 2010)

How did this thread not get locked?


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## Azrael Finalstar (Jan 10, 2010)

Did it break any rules?


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## Banhammer (Jan 10, 2010)

As a mindfull and ethical catholic I will apreciate and thank all of the OBD'ers who respect me, to post nothing else "I wash my hands from this thread"

My religion is a personal and intimate thing, a valued one, a relationship with God and Jesus, and I dislike it to have it treated like just some other manga.
And I dislike it that people would speak of it as if it were something that has anything to do with dragon ball. It's just feels offensivly moronic.


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## Soledad Eterna (Jan 10, 2010)

This is not a forum to discuss social and religious issues. Also, it doesn't matter if you are an atheist or a follower of any religion, you have to respect people's believes and not insult them for that.

On topic, DBZ can't harm him, while The The Devil/ Lucifer/Satan can harm them. God restricts him, that's why he didn't harm anything and just tryied to deceive people to take them away from God. Also, couldn't he just take your soul to hell?


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## Azrael Finalstar (Jan 10, 2010)

No, he really can't. And to reply to the comment above this one, religion is personal and important to me as well. I would never stick God or Jesus into a silly debate, but Satan, well...


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## Sephiroth (Jan 10, 2010)

Satan deserves respect.


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## Dexion (Jan 10, 2010)

Kuya said:


> Biblical Satan gets blitzed



How can an invisible spirit get blitzed


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## randomsurfer (Jan 11, 2010)

Can a winner even be decided? DBZ guys are really powerful and I don't think Satan has any feat that I know of that's beyond planetery level. We know that God is Omnipotent but Satan can be anywhere from a bit below God to unimaginatively weaker than God. Who know how powerful he is.


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## realmathena1 (Jan 11, 2010)

randomsurfer said:


> Can a winner even be decided? DBZ guys are really powerful and I don't think Satan has any feat that I know of that's beyond planetery level. We know that God is Omnipotent but Satan can be anywhere from a bit below God to unimaginatively weaker than God. Who know how powerful he is.



As I mentioned countless times Satan ISNT second to God and he ISNT the most powerfull angel, most people imagine that he soled all heaven and then entered God's throne room and was defeated by him, no it wasnt that way Satan didnt even reached God when he went into rebellion and he wasnt alone I mean he wasnt alone he had 1/3 of the angles turn to his side and he still was defeated and didnt even reached God's throne, he was defeates by Michael, not God and we are talking about pre-fallen Satan who was way more powerful than post-fallen and with 1/3 of the angels on his side and still was defeated by Michael which means there was another angel stronger than him in his prime, the reason he wanted followers and didnt went on the solo is sign he isnt that strong after all if it wasnt he could had soloed his way to God since only he was superior to him, God didnt even fought and Michael isnt the only one stronger than Satan so yes, he isnt second to God at all.


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## Dexion (Jan 11, 2010)

You guys keep saying DBZ are planet busters, etc etc... powerfull. Yes but the devil does not exist in the 3rd dimension... he is an intangible spirit... Please explain to me *how will DBZ chars even touch him*

He can just pull a Job on all of them and watch them die from the sickness.


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## ∅ (Jan 11, 2010)

Dexion said:


> Yes but the devil does not exist in the 3rd dimension... he is an intangible spirit...


You just pulled that one out of your ass didn't you? Besides it's _"exist in three dimension*s*"_.

Considering all the mistakes God has made according to the Bible and his feeble attempts of trying to fix them, flood the world (this was an attempt to rid the world of sinners) etc. He's not capable to time travel anything like that.

Thus by default Lucifer isn't either.


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## Banhammer (Jan 11, 2010)

God isn't capable of time travel because He didn't create the notion of time, we did.
All events are simulatenous, and according to a diviner plan we almost never can comprehend.
But the fact that this escapes you all, is more the reason why you should leave this thread alone Vicky Z.


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## ∅ (Jan 11, 2010)

Banhammer said:


> God isn't capable of time travel because He didn't create the notion of time, we did.


And you felt like repeating what I said, because?



Banhammer said:


> All events are simulatenous, and according to a diviner plan we almost never can comprehend.


God seems to have trouble comprehending it too. I mean after all, Job.



Banhammer said:


> But the fact that this escapes you all, is more the reason why you should leave this thread alone Vicky Z.


I bet you squeeze the Bible tight at night.


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## Fang (Jan 11, 2010)

no one cares about this philosophical meandering on theism or metaphysics


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## Crimson Dragoon (Jan 11, 2010)

this thread is gay


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## shadowlords (Jan 11, 2010)




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## Hotcherie (Jan 11, 2010)

Crimson Dragoon said:


> this thread is gay


Concurred. Anyway, what good is a kamehameha wave against a christian demon?


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## Soledad Eterna (Jan 11, 2010)

They have to hit him first and as the Devil seems to have somo form of omnipresence they couldn't and besides I don't really think the mafuba is that really strong.


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## CrazyMoronX (Jan 11, 2010)

Satan has barely any feats, but may be immortal and thus the DBZ cast cannot kill him giving him a win via attrition.

He smites them all with boils and shit like he did to Job, magically, until they die of old age.


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## Narcissus (Jan 11, 2010)

∅ said:


> This I'm actually curious about. Why is Nagato laughable?
> 
> Surely not because he was a starved crippling. I found that to be a very smart move on Kishi's part.
> 
> After all, why else would he use bodies? The entire purpose of that was because he had lost his legs and wouldn't be able to fight efficiently in person. The idea of having certain advantaged as well as some potential severe weaknesses and making it work is quite rare in manga to my knowledge.




Being a cripple wasn't what made him laughable, nor his fighting style. It was the fact that he was so easily persuaded to give up on everything he had planned to do, right after destroying a village in the name of revenge. All it took was an adolescent and a book. Yeah, that was a lot of conviction he had there.

Simply pathetic.

Oh, and "you're knowledge" isn't that reliable, considering you have already said that you don't read much manga.



hadomaru said:


> yeah, And?



And your thread is idiotic.


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## Azrael Finalstar (Jan 11, 2010)

Narcissus said:


> And you're thread is idiotic.


That fact notwithstanding, hating me because i come up with a sub-par thread is a  little extreme, don't you think?


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## Narcissus (Jan 11, 2010)

hadomaru said:


> That fact notwithstanding, hating me because i come up with a sub-par thread is a  little extreme, don't you think?



If it inspired hatred towards you, oh well.

But think of it like this: you've made some terrible threads before, but no one ever said they hated you for it. At most, they called you an idiot (and probably justified). But when you make a religious thread, these are the kind of reactions you get.

Religion does not go well in internet arguments because it typically leads to trouble. Usually flaming, though this time they're talking about and laughing at you for being a moron.


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## Azrael Finalstar (Jan 11, 2010)

Narcissus said:


> If it inspired hatred towards you, oh well.
> 
> But think of it like this: you've made some terrible threads before, but no one ever said they hated you for it. At most, they called you an idiot (and probably justified). But when you make a religious thread, these are the kind of reactions you get.
> 
> Religion does not go well in internet arguments because it typically leads to trouble. Usually flaming, though this time they're talking about and laughing at you for being a moron.


I guess i never considered the Devil a point of religious contention.


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## Sephiroth (Jan 11, 2010)

hadomaru said:


> I guess i never considered the Devil a point of religious contention.



It is to satanist.


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## Banhammer (Jan 11, 2010)

∅ said:


> And you felt like repeating what I said, because?


I need to set the parameter for my post. 
Would you like to ask me why did I choose to type in english with reasonably correct spelling as well?


> God seems to have trouble comprehending it too. I mean after all, Job.


Job made his choice. All gems need their sharp edges.


> I bet you squeeze the Bible tight at night.



No I squeeze your m- Hi Afk


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## Azrael Finalstar (Jan 11, 2010)

Sephiroth said:


> It is to satanist.


are you a satanist?


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## Banhammer (Jan 11, 2010)

hadomaru said:


> I guess i never considered the Devil a point of religious contention.



Satan is a very important and extreemly valuable part of christianity.
Those who choose to believe the literary explanation of God know that he is but a champion to the angels, who was punished for loving God and his kind over humans, who have people like Vicky Z and bill clinton for shiny monikers.
He is the poster child for failure to strive to fullfill God's plans, and even in his condition, he is someone who is loved and  cherrished by God, despite his decisions.
He's one of God's most loved children, and despite getting no afilliation from me, he has my simpathy.

I do not pretend to think with the mind of an angel, and look down at us who have much to shame for, and pride only in little more than ourselves or the overcaming of those shames, and to be told to be a servent must feel like, but having faith, I still find "Yeah, how cool would it be to pit Lucifer against Son Goku!!1!!1! Epicz0r's battle!" to be gay.


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## Sephiroth (Jan 11, 2010)

hadomaru said:


> are you a satanist?



Maybe I am. 



*Spoiler*: __ 




Nah, I'm Atheist, I'm actually totally cool with using mythical creatures in the battledome.

Alot of people aren't though.


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## God (Jan 11, 2010)

What's the point of being a satanist anyway?

Never understood it..


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## Banhammer (Jan 11, 2010)

99.9% of the time?

About the same as being "Team Edward" or "Team Jacob"


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## Narcissus (Jan 11, 2010)

hadomaru said:


> I guess i never considered the Devil a point of religious contention.



You didn't consider the major enemy in Christanity, as the foe of God, to be a point of religious contention? 

Really hadomaru?


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## realmathena1 (Jan 11, 2010)

Banhammer said:


> Satan is a very important and extreemly valuable part of christianity.
> Those who choose to believe the literary explanation of God know that he is but a champion to the angels, who was punished for loving God and his kind over humans, who have people like Vicky Z and bill clinton for shiny monikers.
> He is the poster child for failure to strive to fullfill God's plans, and even in his condition, he is someone who is loved and  cherrished by God, despite his decisions.
> He's one of God's most loved children, and despite getting no afilliation from me, he has my simpathy.
> ...



But that is only from the fundies point of view, I mean it is ironic is almost like if fundies respected Satan. I believe in God but the concept of Satan to me is really full of fail I wont go deeper but to me is only a way they found to explain the evil like saying "Hey God is all loving and good so then how evil and bad things happen surely there must be a powerful beign contrary to God that do those things" I mean I understant people htat get offended by Jesus threads sometimes I am one of them but this is FUCKING SATAN! it is almost as if people respected him whose concept itself is full of paradox.


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Jan 11, 2010)

Cubey said:


> What's the point of being a satanist anyway?
> 
> Never understood it..



hell if i know...

its like those guys who wear Che guevera shirts here in miami,...

and then  cry and go "whhhyyyy" when they get the ever lasting crap kicked out of them by the Cubans who live here

people want to rebel....and they pick faces that represent  rebellion ..regardless of how evil those  faces actually were

the compulsion to stand out i suppose


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## Narcissus (Jan 12, 2010)

realmathena1 said:


> But that is only from the fundies point of view, I mean it is ironic is almost like if fundies respected Satan. I believe in God but the concept of Satan to me is really full of fail I wont go deeper but to me is only a way they found to explain the evil like saying "Hey God is all loving and good so then how evil and bad things happen surely there must be a powerful beign contrary to God that do those things" I mean I understant people htat get offended by Jesus threads sometimes I am one of them but this is FUCKING SATAN! it is almost as if people respected him whose concept itself is full of paradox.



Oh for God's sake (no pun intended). 

What you share with hadomaru is a lack of common sense. Just look at the thread. It's not the fact that people "respect Satan" or any of that. First of all, the fact that he is indeed a religious figure is what created the controversy. Despite the fact that God is not in this fight, He was still brought up with people arguing about Him. 

So yes, it is completely understandable why people are annoyed even if IT'S JUST SATAN!!!!!!!!11111!!!1!!11!


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## Namikaze Minato Flash (Jan 12, 2010)

Daborra(sp?) is shit compared to Satan. He'd probably own the DBZ world for sure...


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## Sephiroth (Jan 12, 2010)

realmathena1 said:


> But that is only from the fundies point of view, I mean it is ironic is almost like if fundies respected Satan. I believe in God but the concept of Satan to me is really full of fail I wont go deeper but to me is only a way they found to explain the evil like saying "Hey God is all loving and good so then how evil and bad things happen surely there must be a powerful beign contrary to God that do those things" I mean I understant people htat get offended by Jesus threads sometimes I am one of them but this is FUCKING SATAN! it is almost as if people respected him whose concept itself is full of paradox.



Should I address this? 

Nah I'll leave it alone.


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## Banhammer (Jan 12, 2010)

Just because Satan is a typically misantropic bastard, he's still a valuable part of my religion, and my spirituality.
His place his not in the OBD, where artistic licenses came to do battle.

It's like making a thread about your mom specifically Vs Barack Obama's penis.


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## Endless Mike (Jan 12, 2010)

Someone please lock this thread already.


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## Shinku (Jan 12, 2010)

How did this thread even reach 6 pages?


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## Zaelapolopollo (Jan 12, 2010)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> hell if i know...
> 
> its like those guys who wear Che guevera shirts here in miami,...
> 
> ...



As a Marxist for much of my life (not anymore though) I can safely say that's not just it.
Some genuinely believe in the ideals of Communism no matter how awful its followers tend to be.
Personally the only popular Marxist I followed was Lenin and then Trotsky. Wearing a Che shirt probably makes you feel how I'd feel if I saw someone with a Stalin shirt. Well how I would have felt had I still believed in Leninism.




Cubey said:


> What's the point of being a satanist anyway?
> 
> Never understood it..



Theistic Satanism is (very generally as, like Christiany, there are multiple beliefs) about opposition to oppression. True Satanists, not to be confused with the idiotic LaVey kind, see Lucifer as a bringer of knowledge while God wants to keep humans ignorant and enslaved.
Of course Satanism is about more than Christianity. There are many Devil-like figures in other faiths and so Satanists worship them too.


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## Azrael Finalstar (Jan 12, 2010)

Narcissus said:


> You didn't consider the major enemy in Christanity, as the foe of God, to be a point of religious contention?
> 
> Really hadomaru?


I guess i didn't. Those who don't beleive would take him as a mythical creature. Most satanists don't even worship satan; its an athiest religion


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## Id (Jan 12, 2010)

Satan guide my lock!


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