# One Piece is probably the best manga I've read.  What mangas are better?



## Anasazi (Feb 9, 2009)

Out of all the mangas I've read One Piece is probably in the top three in my book.  What mangas does the OP crowd think are better?  I've watched many different animes, but the full list of mangas I've read (or are currently up to date and following) is pretty short: Naruto, Bleach, One Piece, HunterxHunter, Historiy's Strongest Disciple Kenichi, Bitter Virgin, Elfen Lied, and Half and Half. Also, you can assume I've seen every anime that was on Adult Swim and a couple of others.

Edit: I've also been reading Love Hina and Negima on and off.


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## Stroev (Feb 9, 2009)

Fist of the North Star and JoJo's Bizarre Adventure.

Seem boring? Keep reading, they'll get better.

Also, wrong section. Floor 2 will suit you better.


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## Anasazi (Feb 9, 2009)

Ah, thank you.  I posted it in this section on purpose though to get the opinions of One Piece fans specifically.

Edit: Nice sig lol, KA was the first game I ever beat...I think I was 6 lol.


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## Stroev (Feb 9, 2009)

Thanks.

And most will say OP, however, quite a few will recommend some others. Rave Master and JJBA are the closest to OP that I can think of rigth now. 

Speaking of which, the guy that did Rave Master worked under/with Oda, so I think you'll like it, along with the art style. Better than Fairy Tail shit.


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## Z (Feb 9, 2009)

Rurouni Kenshin
Prince of Tennis


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## The Doctor (Feb 9, 2009)

Rachmiel said:


> Out of all the mangas I've read One Piece is probably in the top three in my book.  What mangas does the OP crowd think are better?  I've watched many different animes, but the full list of mangas I've read (or are currently up to date and following) is pretty short: Naruto, Bleach, One Piece, HunterxHunter, Historiy's Strongest Disciple Kenichi, Bitter Virgin, Elfen Lied, and Half and Half. Also, you can assume I've seen every anime that was on Adult Swim and a couple of others.
> 
> Edit: I've also been reading Love Hina and Negima on and off.


Nausicaa of the Valley of the Wind
Battle Angel Alita


I'm a huge One Piece fan and I'm extremelly biased so I can only mention these two.

Also, read Monster, Berserk, Sanctuary, Vagabond, Real, Pluto and Saint Seiya. These are very good too. A lot of people would find these to be much better than One Piece and they are probably right. But I have to say, One Piece still entertains me more than these mangas that I've mentioned.


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## Multi (Feb 9, 2009)

Monster, SLam Dunk, and JoJo's Bizzare Adventure are the only one's I'd really classify as better. And even then Jojo's Bizzare Adventure is debatable.

I do rather like Neuro too.


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## Man in Black (Feb 9, 2009)

There are loads of manga better than OP.

One Piece would be the best Shonen (currently) if it wasn't for Hunter x Hunter.


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## Shishi-O (Feb 9, 2009)

i wouldn't say better in any way shape or form, but these are mangas i love reading in addition.

crows (precursor to worst, "ooorryyaaaa")

worst (current non one piece fave "i will be suzaran's king" oryaaaa)

tenjou tenge (bomb a head, bomb, bomb, bomb a head)

air gear

rorounin kenshin (nerves of insanity)

grappler baki

new grappler baki

baki son of ogre

(above all) dragon ball

ultra red (it's as awesome as it sounds)

holy land (this manga is fairly new, and a bit different, but totally worth it, it reminds me of my youth  kamishiro yuu was here)

hunter x hunter comes highly recomended (kishi borrowed alot from this mangaka, they are friends)

Jojo's bizarre adventure ( jjba steel ball run/ Stone ocean)

parasite

yuyu hakusho

lone wolf and cub (buy this one and dragon ball, i can say without even the slightest bit of hesitation that you will always treasure them)

akira (this is a must)

there is also a bunch of pre-manga boom stuff i won't mention yet

dammit can't hold back

outlanders, caravan kid, dragon half(:rofl) (very good manga, some might not agree but i will stick my head out there)




Hunter x One Piece said:


> There are loads of manga better than OP.
> 
> One Piece would be the best Shonen (currently) if it wasn't for Hunter x Hunter.


if there are better mangas than one piece please share with the class i would like to check them out


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## G@R-chan (Feb 9, 2009)

One Piece is certainly the manga I'm eager to read the most each week. 

I'd say Berserk, Monster, Vinland Saga are my other faves. (I don't read a lot)


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## Shishi-O (Feb 9, 2009)

G@R-chan said:


> One Piece is certainly the manga I'm eager to read the most each week.
> 
> I'd say Berserk, Monster, Vinland Saga are my other faves. (I don't read a lot)



how is monster?

and yah i fucking love vinland saga


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## shadowlords (Feb 9, 2009)

i wouldn't say better but Shin Angyo Onshi, Berserk, 21st Century Boys, and Monster are all very good. More along the One Piece style there is Toriko


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## Man in Black (Feb 9, 2009)

Shishi-O said:


> i wouldn't say better in any way shape or form, but these are mangas i love reading in addition.
> 
> crows
> 
> ...


Lol.

Do you guys honestly believe One Piece is the most quality manga out there? It's not even the best in it's own demographic, let alone out of them all.


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## Shishi-O (Feb 9, 2009)

Hunter x One Piece said:


> Lol.
> 
> Do you guys honestly believe One Piece is the most quality manga out there? It's not even the best in it's own demographic, let alone out of them all.



i just asked you to name some because i would like to check them out, thats it.

i've been reading manga and watching anime( with or without fansubbing) since the late 80s, so if there is stuff i overlooked for any reason i would like to know, because i do love manga.

no ulterior motive.

OP has been #1 for months on end, you know that right? it has raped it's demographic, and been thanked
there is already is a OP is the best manga thread


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## Man in Black (Feb 9, 2009)

Shishi-O said:


> i just asked you to name some because i would like to check them out, thats it.
> 
> no ulterior motive.
> 
> there is already is a OP is the best manga thread


No, you're post definitely had One Piece is the best manga ever undertones in it.

It's not even close.


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## shadowlords (Feb 9, 2009)

Hunter x One Piece said:


> Lol.
> 
> Do you guys honestly believe One Piece is the most quality manga out there? It's not even the best in it's own demographic, let alone out of them all.



Yes I do. 

Manga Battledome Wikipedia

Other good mangas are Eyeshield 21 and Katekyo Hitman Reborn

can't believe i forgot about them


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## Shishi-O (Feb 9, 2009)

Hunter x One Piece said:


> No, you're post definitely had One Piece is the best manga ever undertones in it.
> 
> It's not even close.



i said i would not consider them superior, and i don't, but i love these also

that is what i said.

if u r not naming them then i understand u can't find any.

and you were only incensed at me not having the same opinion of one piece as you do.


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## Man in Black (Feb 9, 2009)

shadowlords said:


> Yes I do.
> 
> Manga Battledome Wikipedia


I guess Sales = Quality?

Lol.

One Piece isn't the best manga by far. Not even the best in it's demographic currently. 


> Other good mangas are Eyeshield 21 and Katekyo Hitman Reborn
> 
> can't believe i forgot about them


You clearly haven't read alot of mangas. Seems you just like shonen.



Shishi-O said:


> i said i would not consider them superior, and i don't, but i love these also
> 
> that is what i said.
> 
> ...


Why would I name them to you when you clearly aren't going to check them out?

No, you have the exact same opinion as One Piece as I do. It's a great manga.

But saying it is the best is absurd.


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## Eldritch (Feb 9, 2009)

Stroev said:


> *
> Speaking of which, the guy that did Rave Master worked under/with Oda, so I think you'll like it, along with the art style. Better than Fairy Tail shit.*



This is a common fallacy. Mashima was never anyone's assistant, he didn't have the patience for that. Oda and Takei(author of Shaman king) were assistants for the author of Ruroni Kenshin. 

So basically, Mashima and Oda don't have any connections, although their art styles may appear similar


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## Violent by Design (Feb 9, 2009)

Read or watch Hajime No Ippo.

Also what Gall said is true.


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## Shishi-O (Feb 9, 2009)

Hunter x One Piece said:


> Why would I name them to you when you clearly aren't going to check them out?
> 
> No, you have the exact same opinion as One Piece as I do. It's a great manga.
> 
> But saying it is the best is absurd.



when did i say ever in any post i have ever made on these forums that i don't like good mangas?

ask anyone, i am pretty straight forward


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## shadowlords (Feb 9, 2009)

Hunter x One Piece said:


> I guess Sales = Quality?
> 
> Lol.
> 
> ...



Uh if you actually read the link I sent the categories are

"What manga that you read has made you cry and What manga would you recommend to others"  not by sales 

Lol.

Also I wrote..

"i wouldn't say better but Shin Angyo Onshi, Berserk, 21st Century Boys, and Monster are all very good. More along the One Piece style there is Toriko"

I have read a lot of others since I have nothing better to do but I didn't mention them cause I don't think they are "better" or even close to as good as One Piece is.


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## Drunkenwhale (Feb 9, 2009)

Depends on your opinion.


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## Man in Black (Feb 9, 2009)

shadowlords said:


> > Uh if you actually read the link I sent the categories are
> >
> > "What manga that you read has made you cry and What manga would you recommend to others"  not by sales
> >
> ...


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## Multi (Feb 9, 2009)

Hunter x One Piece said:


> I guess Sales = Quality?
> 
> Lol.
> 
> ...



That part right there is pretty debatable and you know it.

And sales were never mentioned in that link

Also Flame of Recca is probably on equal level to OP.  I need to read Berserk and the 20th-21st Century Boys(Same guy who wrote Monster right?)


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## hgfdsahjkl (Feb 10, 2009)

if you want something with action
read
HxH or berserk

both depend greatly on plot but when there is action it's always great
and intelligent in case of HxH

IMO both have the best written arcs for any manga
york shin from HxH
golden age from berserk


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## Man in Black (Feb 10, 2009)

Multi said:


> That part right there is pretty debatable and you know it.
> 
> And sales were never mentioned in that link
> 
> Also Flame of Recca is probably on equal level to OP.  I need to read Berserk and the 20th-21st Century Boys(Same guy who wrote Monster right?)


Yeah the part right there is debatable but I definitely think HxH beats it.


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## Shishi-O (Feb 10, 2009)

hgfdsahjkl said:


> if you want something with action
> read
> HxH or berserk
> 
> ...



very intelligent in the case of HxH

i hope he feels well soon, i would put him pretty darn close to oda


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## Yoshi-Paperfold (Feb 10, 2009)

Anything by Naoki Urasawa. If you're asking what shonen series are better than OP, I would have to say FMA.


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## hgfdsahjkl (Feb 10, 2009)

oda close to who 



> i hope he feels well soon



he is just lazy
no one in jump can order togashi around


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## zoro_santoryu (Feb 10, 2009)

One Piece = best manga!!!!


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## Man in Black (Feb 10, 2009)

Shishi-O said:


> very intelligent in the case of HxH
> 
> i hope he feels well soon, i would put him pretty darn close to oda


That's funny, I would put him above Oda.


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## Shishi-O (Feb 10, 2009)

Hunter x One Piece said:


> That's funny, I would put him above Oda.



.. ok you do realize it looks like you are just trolling right?

well anyway i'm off ttfn


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## hgfdsahjkl (Feb 10, 2009)

Shisho-O

do you know how big is togashi in jump?


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## Man in Black (Feb 10, 2009)

Shishi-O said:


> .. ok you do realize it looks like you are just trolling right?
> 
> well anyway i'm off ttfn


Umm..no it doesn't look like I'm trolling.

We were having a debate on how you think One Piece is the best manga and I don't. I thought it was funny that you put him under Oda and I put him above him (he is a better than Oda though. Between YYH and HxH, he's definitely above him). It just shows it's useless for us to argue against eachother although One Piece not being the best manga isn't debatable.


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## shadowlords (Feb 10, 2009)

Hunter x One Piece said:


> shadowlords said:
> 
> 
> > Oh, so quality is determined by the ability of the manga to make you cry? And recommend to others? No.
> ...


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## KLoWn (Feb 10, 2009)

Berserk. Just read it.


Hunter x One Piece said:


> although One Piece not being the best manga isn't debatable.


In this section it apparently is.


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## hgfdsahjkl (Feb 10, 2009)

well.yeah
for something 100% you will like to death

Berserk ,go and read it


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## Multi (Feb 10, 2009)

Look guys you can agree to disagree on whether which one is better OP or HxH but as long as we all agree that Naruto and Bleach don't belong in this disucssion its all good.


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## hgfdsahjkl (Feb 10, 2009)

oh shit
read slam dunk too,best sport manga ever

E21 got nothing on it


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## Multi (Feb 10, 2009)

hgfdsahjkl said:


> oh shit
> read slam dunk too,best sport manga ever
> 
> E21 got nothing on it



Best Rivalry ever.


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## KLoWn (Feb 10, 2009)

hgfdsahjkl said:


> oh shit
> read slam dunk too,best sport manga ever
> 
> E21 got nothing on it


Fuck that ES21 owns


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## hgfdsahjkl (Feb 10, 2009)

my favourite was sendoh vs rukawa

sendoh 



> Fuck that ES21 owns


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## Shishi-O (Feb 10, 2009)

Hunter x One Piece said:


> Umm..no it doesn't look like I'm trolling.
> 
> We were having a debate on how you think One Piece is the best manga and I don't. I thought it was funny that you put him under Oda and I put him above him (he is a better than Oda though. Between YYH and HxH, he's definitely above him). It just shows it's useless for us to argue against eachother although One Piece not being the best manga isn't debatable.



that is not the name of the thread, i have not asserted that i even posted to diffuse that and you are trying to argue that when it is off topic and was already addressed

even through the previous post i said how much i respect the guy, and hope he gets well soon, but you are having an argument made up in your own mind.

i like the guy and his work, but you have to be in a race to win it.

funny how you ignored all the good things i said about him, that is troll behavior if you didn't know, but i know you do.


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## Tenryuken (Feb 10, 2009)

Dragonball is the only manga who's better.


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## Jugger (Feb 10, 2009)

to me one piece is only good manga and its not even better than naruto or bleach well none of these aren?t even in my top 5 manga


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## Valky (Feb 10, 2009)

One Piece is the best.


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## Alex_Predator (Feb 10, 2009)

There is not a better manga!!


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## Blaizen (Feb 10, 2009)

There is no such thing as a better manga. Just the manga that an individual likes better than another.Each individual has different tastes.

For example: 

I totally hate Battle angel Lalita, while many members would debate that its the best manga around. I also think that HxH is not even half as good as One Piece, while many members obviously disagree. Naruto is also one of my favourites, yet so many people hate it.

Its an endless cycle, theres no way aound it.


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## randomsurfer (Feb 10, 2009)

Maybe it's just my taste but I think One Piece is the best manga ever too. I didn't really like HxH (stopped at chapter 100) and Claymore and gantz are okay.


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## Crocodile (Feb 10, 2009)

Blaizen said:


> There is no such thing as a better manga. Just the manga that an individual likes better than another.Each individual has different tastes.
> 
> For example:
> 
> ...



Agreed.To be honest,it's all down to personal preference .
I read Fairy Tail while other One Piece fans hate it.
I prefer Bleach over Naruto while other One Piece prefer Naruto over Bleach.
It's totally down to what you think is better.


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## Teach (Feb 10, 2009)

Random, HxH is better as anime.

And yeah, I'd rate OP above HxH aswell.


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## Abigail (Feb 10, 2009)

Bastard!! and Lone Wolf & Cub are better in my opinion.


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## Shishi-O (Feb 10, 2009)

Ranmyaku Arashi said:


> Bastard!! and Lone Wolf & Cub are better in my opinion.



lone wolf and cub definitely gets to stay on the same shelf


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## Yagami1211 (Feb 10, 2009)

Motherfucking GTO bury all the mangas I have ever read.


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## XMURADX (Feb 10, 2009)

Yep...As most said there is no better manga than One Piece. But there is great ones...
Slam Dunk, HxH, FMA. 

lol...Someone said ES21 is better than Slam Dunk. I started loving Basketball because of it.


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## Kobe (Feb 10, 2009)

Slam Dunk is the best manga I've ever read. Other than Hunter X Hunter is also good but I don't see it above OP.


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## InfIchi (Feb 10, 2009)

Akumetsu is my favorite out of all right now.


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## Black Leg Sanji (Feb 10, 2009)

Rachmiel said:


> What mangas does the OP crowd think are better?



Berserk
Fist of the North Star
Full Metal Alchemist

Though i am in the same boat as The Doctor in that i enjoy OP more (Plus the bias part )


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## Supa Swag (Feb 10, 2009)

In terms of ongoing Shounen I think FMA is better. HxH would be up there but Togashi is a lazy ass and the stuff going on right now isn't worth staying interested in when you include the breaks he will make (I long for Leorio, Hisoka and Kuroro).


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## Enclave (Feb 10, 2009)

I've been a big Ranma 1/2 fan for about 14 years or so.  I'd suggest it, though it's not for everybody.

I also haven't read much of this but 3x3 Eyes is another manga I've enjoyed, at least what of it I've read.


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## Jinibea (Feb 10, 2009)

Hunter x Hunter
Rave
Fairy tail
Dragon Ball
Yu Yu Hakusho


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## Hollowized (Feb 10, 2009)

As a few others have said. I highly recommend Berserk.


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## Han Solo (Feb 11, 2009)

While not all of these manga I'm going to mention are necessarily better than OP, none of them are too far off:

Hunter x Hunter
Full Metal Alchemist
Slam Dunk
Hajime No Ippo
Rookies
Pluto
Monster
20th Century Boys
Real
Vagabond
Bastard!!
Berserk
Battle Angel Alita
JoJo's Bizarre Adventure
Phoenix
Fist Of The Northstar
Lone Wolf & Cub
Shin Angyo Onshi
Saint Seya
Dragon Ball
666 Satan (if you ignore the ending)
Vinland Saga
Nausicaa of the Valley of the Wind
Akira
Yu Yu Hakusho
Flame Of Recca


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## Violent by Design (Feb 11, 2009)

YUUUUUUGIIIIIIOHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH


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## Black Leg Sanji (Feb 11, 2009)

Han Solo said:


> While not all of these manga I'm going to mention are necessarily better than OP, none of them are too far off:
> 
> Hunter x Hunter
> Full Metal Alchemist
> ...



From what i have heard, Eden - Its a Endless World and The Blade of the Immortal are great aswell.


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## Morcombe (Feb 11, 2009)

Other amaizng shone series like Bleach, Naruto and one Piece that i have read and enjoyed are.

YuYu Hakusho (Complete)
Flame of Recca (Complete)
D.Gray-Man (Ongoing)
Buso Renkin (Complete)
Rurouni Kenshin (Complete)
Rave Master (Complete)
Fairy Tail (Ongoing)
GetBackers (Complete)
Samurai Deeper Kyo (Complete)
Full Metal Alchemist (Ongoing)
Shaman King (Complete, kinda)
Black cat (Complete)

seeing as how you said u read Love Hina and Negima, other types of manga like those are.
Rosario+Vampire (Part 1 Complete, part 2 Ongoing)
I"s (Complete)
Strawberry/Ichigo 100% (Complete)

If you want the more mature manga.
Claymore (Ongoing)
Berserk (Ongoing)
Hellsing (Ongoing)
Gantz (Ongoing)
Vagabond (Ongoing)
Battle Royale (Complete)

all i can think of the now


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## KLoWn (Feb 11, 2009)

Morcombe said:


> Hellsing (Ongoing)


Hellsing is done, unless you're referring to *The Dawn*.


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## Randomguy117 (Feb 11, 2009)

Slam Dunk and Berserk are two i've liked better... maybe. It's really more of a 3-way tie. There are others worth mentioning but those two stick out in my mind.


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## Danchou (Feb 11, 2009)

shadowlords said:


> You are like contradicting yourself everywhere. *So if Sales, People's opinions, and emotional content of a manga do not determine it's "quality" then what does?* How well it's drawn? How long it has been running? One Piece is up there in both of those as well. Also you should try to read more carefully because I never said that One Piece was better than the ones I recommended. Stop putting your opinions over mine and actually help recommend mangas to the creator of this thread. We have digressed long enough.
> 
> Sorry to thread starter.
> 
> Other recommendations once again not necessarily better: Hellsing and Slam Dunk. May not be your usual type of manga from what you said you read but both are good.


Britney Spears' music can fit into all of those boxes, yet the people that think she's the best artist ever deserve a .

No, those factors can't be said to determine the quality of a product. In the end it's mostly a matter of personal opinion, I guess.

Btw  at the TS asking the OPsection if there is any other manga better than OP. What kind of answers do you think you'll get?


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## Canute87 (Feb 11, 2009)

You Know i really need to read JJBA and hunter X  Hunter. People have been telling me how good those mangas are.


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## Randomguy117 (Feb 11, 2009)

Just as a counter opinion, i did enjoy HxH quite a bit, but i would say there are better Shonen out there, including OP.


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## Ziko (Feb 11, 2009)

Hajime no Ippo
Hunter X Hunter
Fullmetal Alchemist
Death Note


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## Kooiman (Feb 11, 2009)

I like Katekyo Hitman Reborn a lot.


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## Shishi-O (Feb 11, 2009)

Canute87 said:


> You Know i really need to read JJBA and hunter X  Hunter. People have been telling me how good those mangas are.



these 2 mangas are extremely good, extremely

JJBA is like someone hit you with a tranquilizer gun laced with acid (the guy is extremely creative, and the manga is badass)

HxH is the feeling of epic quest/adventure, very well thought out, very inventive ... i thought he was sick, but someone pointed out that he is just lazy, ... i really hope this is not the case (that would be such a waste)


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## Deaf Ninja Reaper (Feb 11, 2009)

One Piece
Naruto
Bleach (Just barely)
Beach Stars
Fairy Tail
Soul Eater


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## Teleq (Feb 11, 2009)

Yagami1211 said:


> Motherfucking *GTO* bury all the mangas I have ever read.



Full title is Great Teacher Onizuka, and this series is by far my favorite in what I've read. Doesn't matter what genres you like, you have to read it.


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## The Imp (Feb 11, 2009)

Shishi-O said:


> these 2 mangas are extremely good, extremely
> 
> JJBA is like someone hit you with a tranquilizer gun laced with acid (the guy is extremely creative, and the manga is badass)
> 
> HxH is the feeling of epic quest/adventure, very well thought out, very inventive ... i thought he was sick, but someone pointed out that he is just lazy, ... i really hope this is not the case (that would be such a waste)



Togashi's exuse is that he is sick but we all know that he is just lazy  

What's even worse is that Togashi has rubbed off on Miura (berserk mangaka) 

atleast togashi has a better exuse than playing video games


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## Eldritch (Feb 11, 2009)

Great Teacher Onizuka is definitely my favorite shounen


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## The Imp (Feb 11, 2009)

Eldritch Gall said:


> Great Teacher Onizuka is definitely my favorite shounen



I've heard so many good things about it. I really need to pick it up. Although i'll probably start reading it after i catch up on House but I'm only on the 5th ep of season 1


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## Dr.Majestic (Feb 11, 2009)

well  its all a matter of preferance really.

but i'd say lone wolf and cub, And GTO are pretty up there.

oh and even if your not crazy on american football, eyeshield 21 has a special place in my heart/free time.


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## Stroev (Feb 11, 2009)

We can all agree that DragonBall > all. :ho

Yes, we can.  

Ursawa and Araki also have done great jobs as well.


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## crazymtf (Feb 12, 2009)

I'd put berserk above one piece. Gto aswell, yu yu hakusho, hunter x huner, shin angyo onshi and vagabond and battle royale. But i do love one piece aswell. Plan on reading 21st century and shamo is turning out better then i expected. SO they might be better to but so far it's enjoyable.


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## KLoWn (Feb 12, 2009)

Stroev said:


> We can all agree that DragonBall > all. :ho


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## Malumultimus (Feb 12, 2009)

Dragon Ball isn't timeless, in my opinion. It is great - those who disagree aren't real manga fans, and the extent of their Dragon Ball knowledge comes from Toonami and YouTube. But modern shounen has taken its ideas and reproduced them...or made them better.

But when it comes to "which series is better"...you know it's all about preference. Without getting into a shitstorm of details, for me, I put One Piece in the same tier as Hunter x Hunter, Berserk, and maybe Fullmetal Alchemist. They're series that I'm eager to read at least 80% of the time, even in their absence I find myself talking about the worlds they've created, and I can confidently call them epic.

They all have flaws, though. One Piece and Hunter x Hunter can sometimes be too cliche; One Piece and Fullmetal Alchemist can often leave me simply not giving a shit about what happens anymore; Hunter x Hunter and Berserk are released less than half as often as they're supposed to be (add this to how horrible Hunter x Hunter is visually for the latter half of the series); and for Fullmetal Alchemist personally I dislike monthly serializations and am not all that crazy about the art style.

Sounds like a lot of flaws for my "Epic Tier" but I'm just honest.


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## Hibari Kyoya (Feb 12, 2009)

Slam Dunk

Hajime no Ippo

Great teacher Onizuka


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## Grandmaster Kane (Feb 12, 2009)

Eyesheild 21
Hajime no ippo
Hunter X Hunter
Berserk
Battle angel alita
bastard
Grappler Baki
Gants
Katekyo hitman reborn

all I can think of off the top of my head


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## Wuzzman (Feb 12, 2009)

If you have bad taste one piece is about as good as hunter x hunter. however if your remotely intelligent you would lump one piece with naruto and just slightly better than bleach. in fact if you can't name ten shounen better than one piece i feel sorry for you/


----------



## Gelu (Feb 13, 2009)

Wuzzman turns up like clockwork. You know I could set my watch to you.

Anyway the things i have enjoyed about as much as One piece are

HxH
GTO
Slamdunk
ES21(Up until X-mas bowl)
FMA(few chapters out of date)
Berserk 

I still need to read JJBA but I have heard good things.

Honestly what manga is the _best_ is an opinion. So just read what you enjoy, if you believe Bleach is the best thing since sliced bread then read it and don't let the people telling you its crap get in the way of your enjoyment.


----------



## Grandmaster Kane (Feb 13, 2009)

Wuzzman said:


> If you have bad taste one piece is about as good as hunter x hunter. however if your remotely intelligent you would lump one piece with naruto and just slightly better than bleach. in fact if you can't name ten shounen better than one piece i feel sorry for you/



I only names 9

Do you feel sorry for me?


----------



## Valky (Feb 13, 2009)

One Piece is the Best.


----------



## Wuzzman (Feb 13, 2009)

Grandmaster Kane said:


> I only names 9
> 
> Do you feel sorry for me?



While you fell short of ten, your better than the guy who posted above you who put es21, fma, berserk, and hxh in the same category as one piece. it's one thing to fall short of the mark, but another to disrespect another mans work.


----------



## El Torero (Feb 13, 2009)

Katekyo Hitman Reborn, Gintama, and Kekkaishi are worthy to read


----------



## crazymtf (Feb 13, 2009)

Wuzzman said:


> While you fell short of ten, your better than the guy who posted above you who put es21, fma, berserk, and hxh in the same category as one piece. it's one thing to fall short of the mark, but another to disrespect another mans work.



I find it more disrespectful to be a asshole and not let people have there own opinion. Tus making you look like the sad person in here.


----------



## Wuzzman (Feb 13, 2009)

crazymtf said:


> I find it more disrespectful to be a asshole and not let people have there own opinion. Tus making you look like the sad person in here.



heroes season 2 and 3 wasn't god awful. sorry but there are opinions and there are rofl are you stupid opinions.


----------



## Schneider (Feb 13, 2009)

Onizuka is funny as fuck. Funnier than One Piece for me. GTO is easily up there in shounen demographic. The plot was simple (to be the greatest teacher in Japan. Fuck that. He's the greatest teacher in the world) yet so entertaining, not to mention how much character development the manga gives.

Other mangas that left a big impression on me:
-Shin Angyo Onshi 
-Jojo's Bizarre Adventure
-Berserk

Monster and 20th Century Boys are catching my attention now.


----------



## Jugger (Feb 13, 2009)

Wuzzman said:


> If you have bad taste one piece is about as good as hunter x hunter. however if your remotely intelligent you would lump one piece with naruto and just slightly better than bleach. in fact if you can't name ten shounen better than one piece i feel sorry for you/



one piece so overrated people even don?t die and nobody complains about it like in other manga.


----------



## Wuzza (Feb 13, 2009)

Jugger said:


> one piece so overrated people even don?t die and nobody complains about it like in other manga.



What a large crock of illogical shit. Stories don't have to be good if there are no deaths in it. It'd be wise if you at least read One Piece before you make ridiculous claims that aren't supported by the manga. There are plenty of deaths in it, but all of them are trivial, and One Piece isn't the only show or series who only deals with petty deaths that have no ramifications to the rest of the story.

And Wuzzman can't accept the opinions of others without raging like a sodomitical homo. It's quite sad, really.


----------



## Wuzzman (Feb 13, 2009)

Wuzza said:


> What a large crock of illogical shit. Stories don't have to be good if there are no deaths in it. It'd be wise if you at least read One Piece before you make ridiculous claims that aren't supported by the manga. There are plenty of deaths in it, but all of them are trivial, and One Piece isn't the only show or series who only deals with petty deaths that have no ramifications to the rest of the story.
> 
> And Wuzzman can't accept the opinions of others without raging like a sodomitical homo. It's quite sad, really.



I'm not raging. If i said naruto and bleach were the best manga ever, there would be a 10 pages worth of flaming, and you would write 3 pages worth of emo/gay sasuke jokes. Plan and simple some opinions are stupider than others and your opinion my friend is incredibly idiotic.


----------



## Wuzza (Feb 13, 2009)

Wuzzman said:


> I'm not raging. If i said naruto and bleach were the best manga ever, there would be a 10 pages worth of flaming, and you would write 3 pages worth of emo/gay sasuke jokes. Plan and simple some opinions are stupider than others and your opinion my friend is incredibly idiotic.



RABBLERABBLEELITISMBULLSHITRABBLERAGE!11!!!!!!!11!!!1BAAAAAAWRABBLE.

I'm sorry for not caring about your pampared shitty superiority complex that is laughable at best.


----------



## Wuzzman (Feb 14, 2009)

Wuzza said:


> RABBLERABBLEELITISMBULLSHITRABBLERAGE!11!!!!!!!11!!!1BAAAAAAWRABBLE.
> 
> I'm sorry for not caring about your pampared shitty superiority complex that is laughable at best.



mind if i quote you when i describe one piece fanboys?


----------



## Supa Swag (Feb 14, 2009)

Wuzzman said:


> heroes season 2 and 3 wasn't god awful.



Say what.

First you compare Fresh Prince to fucking FRIENDS now this?


----------



## Gelu (Feb 14, 2009)

Wuzzman said:


> While you fell short of ten, your better than the guy who posted above you who put es21, fma, berserk, and hxh in the same category as one piece. it's one thing to fall short of the mark, but another to disrespect another mans work.



Perhaps you missed the ENJOYED part in my post? 

Enjoy does not imply that htey are on the same level it just means I liked them equally.

Honestly where do you get off telling everyone else what is a good manga and what isn't? Who died and made you god. 

One Piece has a great world, likable characters, well written (Can't think of any plotholes off top of my head), the art is superb and most importantly it is *fun*. It took the shounen formula and rather than try fixing something which wasn't broken they cleaned it, oiled it and set it on its merry way.

For what it sets out to be it excels at and just because its not what you want does not mean it isn't one of the best shounen out there.

Also you put ES21 in the same league as HxH/FMA maybe you should take your own advice about disrespecting others works.

(I like ES21 and enjoy reading it)

Edit: How about you stop the insults they add nothing to the discussion?


----------



## HugeGuy (Feb 14, 2009)

There are surprising number of dupes whenever One Piece needs defending. You can tell by the way they post. They all have similar posting styles. Worst of all, defending One Piece usually drags on and on so by the end of the day they have more than enough post to make it look like they're not dupes. :S


----------



## Grandmaster Kane (Feb 14, 2009)

Supa Swag said:


> Say what.
> 
> First you compare *Fresh Prince to fucking FRIENDS* now this?



HE DID WHAT!?!?!?!?!?!?!


----------



## Roronoa-zoro (Feb 14, 2009)

HugeGuy said:


> There are surprising number of dupes whenever One Piece needs defending. You can tell by the way they post. They all have similar posting styles. Worst of all, defending One Piece usually drags on and on so by the end of the day they have more than enough post to make it look like they're not dupes. :S



Nadal>>>Federer HA! Take this HugeGuy!


----------



## HugeGuy (Feb 14, 2009)

Roronoa-zoro said:


> Nadal>>>Federer HA! Take this HugeGuy!



*Takes out Swiss Army Knife*


----------



## Vault (Feb 14, 2009)

JJBA
Berserk
SAO
HxH
GTO
BoTi
Vinland saga 
Ippo
Hnk
Snk 

all those stomp on OP


----------



## Le Mâle-Pensant (Feb 14, 2009)

Great Teacher Onizuka


----------



## Wuzzman (Feb 14, 2009)

Supa Swag said:


> Say what.
> 
> First you compare Fresh Prince to fucking FRIENDS now this?



wooo now. I ONLY compared them in popularity not QUALITY. I didn't hate Friends that much to say i didn't mind watching it. I mean how many people loath dragon ball z and would still watch it if it was on? 

Also Gelu I don't put Eyeshield 21 in the same league as FMA and HXH, a simple google on my post history would clearly tell you that I consider eyeshield 21 a tier 2 manga, while FMA and HXH are tier 1. Besides, its not like a hate one piece, hell I like it more than dragon ball z, but it's not like it's a master piece. There are better manga, with better characters, better plot, and better fights, and all I'm argueing is that one piece to anyone with a slightest ability to really read manga is hardly light years ahead of bleach and naruto in retrospect.

Vault you don't need to list seinin, there are more than enough shounen that rofl stomps one piece.


----------



## The Doctor (Feb 14, 2009)

No, there aren't.


----------



## Wuzzman (Feb 14, 2009)

The Doctor said:


> No, there aren't.



yes, they are.


----------



## Valky (Feb 14, 2009)

I don't care what you guys talking about. One Piece is the best.


----------



## Black Leg Sanji (Feb 14, 2009)

HxH is awesome, but it does in no way stomp on OP.


----------



## Kobe (Feb 14, 2009)

Only Slam Dunk can be compared with One Piece in terms of awesomeness


----------



## The Doctor (Feb 14, 2009)

Wuzzman said:


> yes, they are.


No, there aren't.


----------



## Wuzzman (Feb 14, 2009)

The Doctor said:


> No, there aren't.



read more manga. But this time actually read the words.


----------



## The Doctor (Feb 14, 2009)

Read more mangas? Ok, I have already read

Fullmetal Alchemist
Aqua Knight
Battle Angel Alita
Battle Angel Alita: Last Order
Devilman
Monster
Pluto
Claymore
Vagabond
Real
One Piece
Naruto
Bleach
Psyren
Hokuto no Ken
Historie
Toriko
Houshin Engi
Yu yu Hakusho
Hunter x Hunter
Soul Eater
Berserk
Nausicaa of the Valley of Wind 
History's Strongest Disciple Kenichi
Saint Seiya
Saint Seiya - Episode G
Bastard!!
Sanctuary
Vinand Saga
Black and White
Akira
Shin Angyo Onshi
Cowa!
Dragonball
Go! Go! Ackman!
Wanted
3x3 Eyes
Domu
Flame of Recca
MARS
666 Satan
Emma
Fruits Basket
to-Love-ru
My Balls
Samurai Deeper Kyo
Katekyo Hitman Reborn
D. Gray-man
Ryuuroden
Blame
Lady Snowblood
Lone Wolf and Cub
Apollo's Song
Marvelous Melmo
A.D. Police
Metropolis

There are others but I can't honestly remember. But even after reading all of these I still consider One Piece to be one of the best and the most enjoyable manga out there. I'm sorry if I'm too stupid but this is my opinion. So, could you please make an argument that explains why One Piece is worse than most of the shonens I've listed? And please, make an *objective *argument.


----------



## Moon (Feb 14, 2009)

Why couldn't this thread just have asked "I think One Piece is the best manga, what other manga would I like?"


----------



## hgfdsahjkl (Feb 14, 2009)

believe me
it wasnt going to make any difference


----------



## Wuzzman (Feb 14, 2009)

Ok let me break this down. 

The good.

The 3 pillers, Luffy, Zoro and Sanji are excellent characters. Enjoyable to watch. It's because of these three that the friendship the whole crew has is fun to read.

One piece does action pretty well, the big fights are at least fun to watch and again the 3 pillers, have decent fights throughout the series. If your just a fan for the characters and not the plot itself, luffy, zoro and sanji won't disappoint. 

You can read this to someone who has an impressionable mind. Basically its mood and lack of death  makes this easy reading for younger audiences and if you want to get a young one into manga without his mom going apeshit than one piece is your manga. 

The bad.

It drags on...and on...and on....even to the point that it almost feels like filler some times. While the plot as a whole isn't bad for the mood and feel its excessive and if I never get the urge to reread chapters or arcs of the manga. Never. It even gets worse as the manga goes on, the mini arcs and the down right filler get longer as the manga gets older. Even if oda by some magical whim brings all these not interesting plot notes back into the manga 300 chapters from now would I care? No...plot per page is not one piece strong point. It may not downright want to make me ignore the plot like some manga do but it gets tedious.

I'm not 12. So the whole main character <<<< rest of the universe does not cut it. The large armies of fodder is just depressing. The marines are a joke, plain and simple, they offer as much resistance as a used condom in a porn stars pussy. You figure that when people are running around destroying ships with their foot you'd think even the fodder would carry armor piercing rounds that explode on impact. How crediable is your universe when their suppose to be lots of pirates 2x stronger than luffy yet a organization as shitty as the marines are still around. 

Oh but wait not done, besides the 3 pillers, the rest of the crew have little purpose in what for all pratical uses in a fight. Actually its worse, Luffy can one shot anyone zoro has fought. There is little tension in the manga, the fights look good, but no substance behind it. Recently the straw hats lost but thats barely even a bump in the road, really luffy is at shibakua level and worse he is probably a level or 2 below the so called "combat admirals".  I hardly feel excited to see one of those clowns fight again, all that hype and what do we get? Light Light fruit, kicks as fast as light for the win people . 

But the epic failure hasn't stopped their. If your going to be at the top, your manga has to rely a bit more than "my class 120 punches kicks your class 110 punches out of the water". I haven't seen a fight truly require some thinking beyond luffy vs crok. Enel was a good fight, probably the last fight that was truly higher up the quality chain for any shounen. But beyond that? Power scaling and wins coming down to "did the guy with the broken nose tell me to get up? sure why not!" Sorry no truly above average manga has come down to that bullshit.  

Damn there is more but I'll unload more when I see the result of your one piece fanboy brain go ape shit.


----------



## Gomu Ningen (Feb 14, 2009)

I've read quite a lot of manga, and I have yet to find something better than One Piece.  The characters, setting, pace, fighting, story, epicness, comedy/serious balance, and overall godliness are nearly perfect in One Piece...in my opinion of course.


----------



## Eldritch (Feb 14, 2009)

@Wuzzman

The Doctor listed quite a number of series and proved that he has a fairly wide perception of shounen/seinen mangas. Now rather than changing the subject why don't you list the ones you've read. "read more manga. But this time actually read the words."


----------



## Wuzzman (Feb 14, 2009)

Eldritch Gall said:


> @Wuzzman
> 
> The Doctor listed quite a number of series and proved that he has a fairly wide perception of shounen/seinen mangas. Now rather than changing the subject why don't you list the ones you've read. "read more manga. But this time actually read the words."



He simply asked why I think one piece isn't great. However if you want a list of manga...

shounen

HunterXHunter
FullMetal Alchemist
Naruto
Bleach
One Piece
Claymore
Aflame Inferno
D-grayman
Air gear
666 satan 
Ares
Bloody Monday
Blue-Dragon 
Bio Meat Nector
Baki Son of the Orge
Dragon Quest
Digimon Next and Tamers
Emblaming
EL EL
Eyeshield 21
Fairy Tale
Hajime No Ippo
History Strongest Disciple
Immortal Reglies
Inyuasha 
Jojo Bizarria Adventures and Stone Ocean
Monster Hunter Orge 
The Legend of Maian 
New Baki the Grappler
Pysren
Rurouni Kenshin
Soul Eater
Verista
Tista
yu yu haskashou


seinin

Berserk
20 and 21st centuray boy
Akumesta
CAT
BASTARD
Franken Fran
Gantz
HighSchool of the Dead
Historie
Jackals
Deadman Wonderland 
Lucifier and the Biscuit Hammer
Mercenary Piere
Manhole
Pluto
Monster
Parasyte
Ravages of Time
Shamo
Sidooh
Team Medical Doctor
Vinland saga
Zetman

probably skipped a few but yeah thats all i remember reading.


----------



## Eldritch (Feb 14, 2009)

Yet Eyeshield is tier 2 

I lol'd


----------



## Wuzzman (Feb 14, 2009)

Eldritch Gall said:


> Yet Eyeshield is tier 2
> 
> I lol'd



isn't one piece tier 1 to you? I rofl.


----------



## Eldritch (Feb 14, 2009)

And he misses the point. Great job, you half-wit.


----------



## Grandmaster Kane (Feb 14, 2009)

The Doctor said:


> Read more mangas? Ok, I have already read
> 
> Fullmetal Alchemist
> Aqua Knight
> ...



I cant respect a man who has read the bolded but still thinks one piece is better


----------



## The Doctor (Feb 14, 2009)

Wuzzman said:


> rabblerabblerabblerabble


So basically, you don't like the format of the story. You read One Piece and you complain the fact that some arcs are irrelevant while completely ignoring how those arcs were handled. Then, you say that this is "bad" because it doesn't correspond to your expectations of story format.

You also made some funny arguments such as "there is little tension in the manga". The reason why Luffy is rubberman is in order to diminish to tension in the fights. You also made some completely wrong statements like "Marines are incompetent" and "Luffy is at Shichibukai level". And goddamn you even complain about the fodders.

You made some other pretty shitty points that I really don't care/I'm to lazy to respond.

Your problem is: You read One Piece expecting something completely different of what Oda intends to create, complain about it, label One Piece as "bad" and then bitch and moan when someone thinks it's one of the best manga out there, as if you are in some sort of crusade to spread the godly words that One Piece is below avarage and that there are tons of other shonens better than it.



Grandmaster Kane said:


> I cant respect a man who has read the bolded but still thinks one piece is better


Who said that One Piece is better than those? I enjoy OP more than them but that's it. Like I already said, most of those are "better written" than One Piece, if you know what I mean, but I still enjoy it more.


----------



## Darts (Feb 14, 2009)

Are you retarded or something? If you knew that some of those mangas were better, why would you ask him to do this?


The Doctor said:


> So, could you please make an argument that explains why One Piece is worse than most of the shonens I've listed?


This topic is about whether One Piece is the best. not "Your Favorite Manga". and you already conceded by saying some of those manga are better.


----------



## The Doctor (Feb 14, 2009)

Oh my god          .


----------



## Wuzzman (Feb 14, 2009)

The Doctor said:


> Too busy licking Oda's cum. I'll be able to give you an actual response when I'm done. Damn this shit good.



Ok, I'll wait for you to finish. But if you can still hear me somehow, I'll like to point out that Luffy has beaten 2 Shichibukai already and is immune to Hancocks crap shit ability. Unless logic ! = one piece...wait..... Oh btw I enjoy gantz too, is it better than berserk?..err...no.


----------



## Wuzzman (Feb 14, 2009)

Eldritch Gall said:


> And he misses the point. Great job, you half-wit.



so eyeshield 21 is in the same ball park as bleach and naruto than? I get your point, but I'm assuming you have one.


----------



## BlaZeR (Feb 14, 2009)

Subjective


----------



## KLoWn (Feb 15, 2009)

One piece is good, but overrated as fuckin hell.

There you go.

**Edit**


			
				longnose47 said:
			
		

> Oi punk go fuck yourself please oh your mama should have kept her legs crossed because your an EPIC FAILURE of her creation.





			
				longnose47 said:
			
		

> Oh one thing your conan show is EPIC FAIL!!!


(...what?)


			
				longnose47 said:
			
		

> oi that you punk ?





			
				longnose47 said:
			
		

> Oi are you an whitey





			
				longnose47 said:
			
		

> or an ^ (use bro) jackass





			
				longnose47 said:
			
		

> to you shove your cock on to your mama mouth for breakfast today ?





			
				longnose47 said:
			
		

> your country sweden is an EPIC FAIL because there are many overgrown piece of monkey crap like u


15 minutes after my post was made 

OPtards, what greater lulz is there~


----------



## Quwrof Wrlccywrlir (Feb 15, 2009)

Well, OP is not for me. There are too many fights for my taste and the only moments I 'oooh'ed are when Luffy shows a new creative gomu gomu technique. Other developments left me cold as well, like Nami's backstory and the whole Sanji/restaurant arc. 

But I agree that One Piece does is good at _what it does_. Oda's paces his story very well and chooses his panels wisely. But the thing is, I do not care about the things it excels in while it barely addresses things I do care about. 

Anyhow, OP, like any other manga, does not work for everyone and there are still a number of mangas that are better in it in terms of storytelling. To talk about a single objective best is ultimately pointless, but if we are satisfied with naming the top contenders, I am not too sure if OP should be in that list.

Anyway, I agree with The Doctor. It's stupid to criticize OP (or any manga for that matter) for what it does not try to do. Don't impose your taste on it.


----------



## Eldritch (Feb 15, 2009)

Wuzzman said:


> so eyeshield 21 is in the same ball park as bleach and naruto than? I get your point, but I'm assuming you have one.



Air ball.



Wuzzman said:


> While you fell short of ten, your better than the guy who posted above you who put es21, fma, berserk, and hxh in the same category as one piece. *it's one thing to fall short of the mark, but another to disrespect another mans work.*



I wonder what you're doing right now


----------



## Pimp of Pimps (Feb 15, 2009)

*People are always gonna try and seem cool by trying to disprove your opinion, no matter what it is.

There's no shame in saying OP is your favorite manga. It IS an excellent manga. *


----------



## newbieFans (Feb 15, 2009)

hey guys....I think before we call each other retards...my post is best and you're worst....didn't it just your opinion?...the best thing for this whole debate, I think we must decide what criterias which make this or that manga considered being good or best...then it would be much more objective if we take the profesional(manga criticus) criterias for base,,,not our opinions/taste...


----------



## Master Bait (Feb 15, 2009)

*ignores posts containing unnecessary comments*

okay, these kinds of topic has ALWAYS been subjective. ALWAYS. And I say, there is no better manga nor the best manga for everyone. It all comes down to your preferences. Now let's quit this senseless arguments of which manga is better and just settle with the fact that everybody has distinct opinions. 

Now on topic. While I do love One Piece, I admit that it isn't really the best manga for everyone. It has it's bests, but it also has it's flaws. Although I am not much of a manga reader, but I am DEFINITELY SURE that there are a lot of mangas better out there that just needs to be found. 

Anyways, as I said, I'm not much of a manga reader and I haven't read quite a lot of mangas, but still I'll recommend to you my anti-depressant drug. It's called *"Yotsuba&!"*. It's not shounen, nor shoujo, not seinen, nor josei. It's a manga about a little kid's everyday life. It doesn't really have a plot, but it's very peaceful and it gives you a stress-free feeling. It might not appeal to you, but I'll take my chances.


----------



## SuperKisame (Jul 27, 2011)

Naruto is the best manga with jjb and Yu Yu Hakosho


----------



## Punpun (Jul 27, 2011)

Necroing like a baww.


----------



## MdB (Jul 27, 2011)

Was it really necessary to bump this obnoxious thread with shit like that?


----------



## Bluebeard (Jul 27, 2011)

SuperKisame you get worse and worse every fucking day.


----------



## Kobe (Jul 27, 2011)

Slam Dunk is the best. Read or GTFO.


----------



## luffy no haki (Jul 27, 2011)

Bluebeard said:


> SuperKisame you get worse and worse every fucking day.



I second this

C?mmon seriously you think that SK?


----------



## Kirito (Jul 27, 2011)

NECRO


----------



## Wolfgang Grimmer (Jul 27, 2011)

Kobe said:


> Slam Dunk is the best. Read or GTFO.


----------



## EVERY SINGLE DAY!!! (Jul 27, 2011)

Real > Slam Dunk


----------



## Inuhanyou (Jul 27, 2011)

Many lulz were had OP


----------



## p-lou (Jul 27, 2011)

why do so many people always remark on people necroing a thread?

why is necroing a thread so bad?

why are we here?


----------



## Shock Therapy (Jul 27, 2011)

what is life?


----------



## p-lou (Jul 27, 2011)

exactly man


----------



## Blinky (Jul 27, 2011)

We live because the other option sucks.


----------



## Heretic (Jul 28, 2011)

I don't know about "better" than One Piece since that's pretty subjective. But good solid series that I find as enjoyable as One Piece are Hajime No Ippo, Psyren, Toriko, Death Note, and the beginning of Bakuman. Note that the last two aren't the typical fighter shonens and the first is a boxing manga (and IMO, the _best_ boxing manga). Toriko is probably the closest to One Piece of this list, but I think the intelligent reader would prefer Psyren most. It's serious, has an incredibly good pace, and the art is very nice on the eyes.

On the side, I'd also recommend Pokemon Special (in North America, it's called Pokemon Adventures) and Digimon V-Tamers if you've ever watched Pokemon or Digimon before. The Pokemon manga is leagues above the anime, and the Digimon manga is similarly overall higher quality than the anime. Both mangas were tremendously enjoyable.


----------



## Kobe (Jul 28, 2011)

Fenix Down said:


> Real > Slam Dunk



Necro, please.


----------



## zuul (Jul 28, 2011)

Shishi-O said:


> i wouldn't say better in any way shape or form, but these are mangas i love reading in addition.
> 
> crows (precursor to worst, "ooorryyaaaa")
> 
> ...



OMG you can understand what is going on in Oh Great mangas. I'm impressed :amazed


Slam Dunk/Big Wind up are better to me, but that may be due to me being a sport manga kinda person.

And I also like saint seiya better but thats' because I'm much more of a knighttard than a piratetard.


----------



## Edward Newgate (Jul 28, 2011)

p-lou said:


> why do so many people always remark on people necroing a thread?
> 
> why is necroing a thread so bad?
> 
> why are we here?


God told him, "thou shall necro that thread".


----------



## Mizura (Jul 28, 2011)

Well since it's necrod anyway...

The problem has to do with the definition of "better." Take the following example:
- Character 1 has 4 Strength, 3 Dexterity, 4 Constitution, 2 Wisdom and 1 Intelligence
- Character 2 has 2 Strength, 4 Dexterity, 1 Constitution, 4 Wisdom and 5 Intelligence
- Character 3 has 3 everything.

Which character is "better"?

Likewise, even if you try to break things down "objectively", a manga can still be divided into criteria such as:
- Character
- Relationships
- Plot
- Art (both character and background)
- World design
- Emotional impact (be it humor, sadness, romance or even fanservice)
- etc.

Now for each of the above, each reader will weigh each differently: some will insist on complicated plots (intellectually challenging), some judge a manga's enjoyableness by their main characters, some will judge them by how the minor characters are used because they're fed-up of fodder support cast, some like vast and imaginitive worlds that they can imagine belonging to, etc.

And then, for each criteria, you'll still have to take into account individual tastes.

For any single criteria, you can probably find a manga that's better than One Piece, in a reasonable person's opinion:

- Characters: I wouldn't consider Luffy to be the most interesting main character of all times, and the less powerful characters are somewhat badly used. Personally, I've felt much more attachment to the characters of Pluto or Nausicaa, for example, and I think FMA handles "lesser" characters much better (rather than just make the main character the main powerhouse). My favourite characters are from some obscure Shoujo-ish stories, but that's another matter.

- World design: One Piece's world is very impressive, though some would prefer the worlds of HxH, Naruto (I find a lot of people like to create their own characters in Naruto's setting, even if they don't enjoy the main characters or plot that much anymore), Toriko (I prefer Toriko's world to One Piece because I think the natural world itself is much better used as part of the story, but it may just be because I like things food-related P: ), etc. The world of Aria made me smile a lot more than One Piece's, at least partly because of the author's focus on enjoying the little things. The appeal of world design can actually outlast a story: Lord of the Rings made the fantasy genre mainstream, even though many don't even read the original books! 

- Plot and plot execution: I've been impressed with the relatively complex structures of some of One Piece's story arcs (much more elaborate than Naruto and Bleach for example), but I wouldn't call it intellectually challenging or high literature or anything either. It really depends on the person. A person who highly enjoys puzzles or mysteries won't rate One Piece high on this aspect (which is why a Psyren fan would rate Psyren more highly than One Piece, for example).

- Relationships: eh, One Piece, relationships. Moving on.

- Emotional impact: the art plays a big part here. Those who can't take One Piece's art seriously will have trouble feeling the emotional impact of many scenes, whereas those who love it will be continuously entertained by it. I don't think anybody would call One Piece the funniest manga they've ever read, or the most dramatic, or the deepest, etc. But to its fans, One Piece does always deliver a regular stream of entertaining moments.

Basically, One Piece can be rated very highly on many aspects, which makes it a "good all-around-ish and terrific! on certain things." By contrast, Tenjo Tenge may have more elaborate art but shitty plot, FMA may have better character usage but a somewhat uninspirational world background, Bleach actually has gorgeous character designs but Terrible pacing, etc. But that doesn't mean that it has what it takes for every reader to consider it "the best" manga ever, even if they can't otherwise name another "best" manga. Basically, no single manga or story has every monopolized All the different aspects. Just being good enough at half of them are already enough to make a story "very good."



> Slam Dunk/Big Wind up are better to me, but that may be due to me being a sport manga kinda person.


I don't even like Sports manga (at all!), and I was very surprised when I liked Slam Dunk anyway (I don't even like basketball!). Some manga just do an awesome job of being fun to read. x)


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## Dr. Insano (Jul 28, 2011)

Arguing what manga is the best is stupid and pointless.  Everyone has different tastes and all tastes are valid if they keep the manga artist in business.  Saying a manga is very good and very good in its category and its your favorite is perfectly valid but only a self centered idiot trashes on other manga and claim "<  > is the best manga" as if its fact and they can't grasp the concept that not everyone has the same tastes as them.  

If youre just looking for more stuff to read thats similar to One Piece, read Toriko.  Its very similar to One Piece.  Amazing full creative world, fun adventures but still some serious/heart-touching moments, good action etc.  The story isn't as good as One Piece but its still a pretty good manga with the same spirit that makes One Piece great.


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## MakeEmum (Jul 29, 2011)

shadowlords said:


> Hunter x One Piece said:
> 
> 
> > You are like contradicting yourself everywhere.* So if Sales, People's opinions, and emotional content of a manga do not determine it's "quality" then what does?* How well it's drawn? How long it has been running? One Piece is up there in both of those as well. Also you should try to read more carefully because I never said that One Piece was better than the ones I recommended. Stop putting your opinions over mine and actually help recommend mangas to the creator of this thread. We have digressed long enough.
> ...


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## HolyDemon (Jul 29, 2011)

A shounen will never be in my top favorite for the fighting. I tried to read One Piece once, due to rumor about its comedy sense. As it turns out, the joke is too shounen-ish, too predicatable for my liking.

It has zero philosophical intrigue, and romance is barely-existent (and it's not subtle romance, which I enjoy rather vehemently). Ultimately, it doesn't appeal to any taste of mine in manga. It may not be a bad manga, but it doesn't raise any of my flags.


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## firefist (Jul 29, 2011)

Slam Dunk, Vagabond, just everything from Inoue.
Berserk.
JJBA.


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## Angoobo (Jul 29, 2011)

OP is probably the best shonen( although i think HxH is also amazing), but to say it's the best manga is


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## La buse (Jul 29, 2011)

I have read tons of mangas from seinen to shonen and i dont find another manga that is better than one piece. It is a whole another level, Oda is alone on its own planet. Its just a huge, entertaining and epic story. Some people don't get how awesome this manga is, they should read it more carefully. And I laugh at people who try to make the so called "constructive criticism" and who don't know what this manga is about.


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## ONI GIRI (Jul 29, 2011)

my balls
and
sundome
(Y)

enjoy


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## Kobe (Jul 29, 2011)

I checked my manga collection in my hdd. The better ones as follows;

- Slam Dunk
- Real
- Vagabond
- Great Teacher Onizuka
- Berserk

I have like 52 other mangas I read in hdd. Shin Angyo Onshi can also be considered as manga since it was serialized in Japan. (the one and only manhwa iirc.) And I really liked SAO, and enjoyed much more than One Piece. 20th Century Boys is another manga I liked. Although it's not above One Piece in my rating, it's close. Dragon Ball and JJBA. I've read Dragon Ball recently again, and started JJBA. I'd say Dragon Ball is pretty similar to One Piece. Almost everything. JJBA is interesting, I'll continue reading it although the art is somewhat dull. Hunter X Hunter also has great story and mangaverse.. but the art was _shit_ and Togashi was a lazy ass so it didn't live up to its potential.

Now.. you realize I have a vast interest in manga. I also read mangas like Psyren, Goodnight Punpun, D.Gray-Man, Fairy Tail, FMA, Dorohedoro, Gantz, Vinland Saga etc. Also I like the manhwa style much more than manga.

Moreover, if I have to compare One Piece with Naruto and Bleach.. they are IMO pretty close. One fandom might hate the other, but they are not better than each other and entitled to their opinions. I, personally, like Bleach characters more than Naruto and One Piece. The plot is also far superior. But like Mizura said pace is slow.. so it might be boring for readers not patient. 

The things I hate about One Piece;

- The feeling I got in East Blue arcs and Grand Line: Strawhats will one way or another win! Via friendship or any other things. The things that happened in Arabasta arc and Enies Lobby arc disappointed me a lot. Lucci and Crocodile can own Luffy any given time. And actually they did, going all out. But Oda degraded them for a chapter or two and Luffy with regular things managed to beat them. That was disappointing. Now you might say "what the hell did you expect? he's gonna be pirate king so of course he has to beat them" THEN, the villains shouldn't be shown more powerful than your main character. If the main character beats the villains via PIS, then I'll say "Just, hold on for a sec, that's wrong". In Thriller Bark arc it was different as Nightmare Luffy was powerful as hell. Oda showed it clearly.

OP fandom also argue that, Luffy actually lost a battle in Shabondy and lost his nakamas but it lead to a different thing as Kuma was actually helping them. And they managed to survive like that.

In Impel Down arc, Magellan bitchslapped Luffy but this D will went too far again and he survived but I'm ok with that.

- The overuse of humor. Oda might be a funny guy in real life. And he might like humor. I don't know about that. But using same shit over and over again loses the purpose of manga. Brooke jokes, the things that happened in Fishmen Island etc. They are different than implementing personality, they have clear purpose.

On the other hand, I find nicely placed humor very good and rate it high. Luffy being an idiot and always causing troubles to his crewmates like Zoro, Nami was especially good in pre-Grand Line. I miss those. Zoro vs. Sanji is also something I like anytime it happens.


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## Edward Newgate (Jul 29, 2011)

^How exactly is Bleach's plot far superior to Naruto's and especially One Piece's?

And Crocodile defeated Luffy the first two times because Luffy couldn't properly hit him. As for Lucci, fine, I can say you're right.
What happened in Impel Down wasn't only thanks to Luffy's will, but thanks to Ivankov as well.


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## Kobe (Jul 29, 2011)

Edward Newgate said:


> ^How exactly is Bleach's plot far superior to Naruto's and especially One Piece's?
> 
> And Crocodile defeated Luffy the first two times because Luffy couldn't properly hit him. As for Lucci, fine, I can say you're right.
> What happened in Impel Down wasn't only thanks to Luffy's will, but thanks to Ivankov as well.



In Bleach you don't have an expectation come true. Kubo is always surprising the readers, or so they'd call 'trolling.' And after the revelation of Aizen being a villain and all, it was mindblowing as the plot thickened and we were shown the details. For One Piece, it's too obvious. Luffy will surely become Pirate King and he's gonna defeat all people otherwise the manga would be 5000 chapters as the mangaverse is quite large and there are a lot of top tier characters. For Naruto, this "my way of ninja" went too far, also Talk no Jutsu as some people call it. It just fucked the plot with Nagato surrendering etc. It didn't live up to potential at all, the villains that is. So the plot became dull.

Crocodile could have still beaten him. But Oda went for a cheap trick and blood turned him tangible. Crocodile as we already know could own Luffy via Sables or other things. We also know that Crocodile mastered his DF to max. potential and it somehow disappointed me that Luffy could beat him with Gomu Gomu Storm (Arabasta level)

I know Ivankov helped but Ivankov also said that (Or Oda) it'd be really impossible for him to come back. But Will of D survived.. but anyway it's achievable with hormones etc. even if there's a low chance so like I said I'm ok with that.


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## Yagami1211 (Jul 29, 2011)

Great Teacher Onizuka is better IMO.


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## Edward Newgate (Jul 29, 2011)

> In Bleach you don't have an expectation come true. Kubo is always surprising the readers, or so they'd call 'trolling.' And after the revelation of Aizen being a villain and all, it was mindblowing as the plot thickened and we were shown the details. For One Piece, it's too obvious. Luffy will surely become Pirate King and he's gonna defeat all people otherwise the manga would be 5000 chapters as the mangaverse is quite large and there are a lot of top tier characters. For Naruto, this "my way of ninja" went too far, also Talk no Jutsu as some people call it. It just fucked the plot with Nagato surrendering etc. It didn't live up to potential at all, the villains that is. So the plot became dull.




Are you serious? So how about that: Ichigo is going to be the strongest character in Bleach, just like Luffy and Naruto. Where is the surprise here? Actually, he's already became the strongest character, before losing his powers, and he will become the strongest once again.

How do you think the plot in Bleach is going to progress from now on? How does the Spirit King comes into all this? I don't think Kubo himself knows yet how he's going to connect all these plot elements. Hell, it doesn't even sound like the Spirit King is a living thing. What part is Ichigo going to play now? Kubo surprising you because he rarily himself plans anything. He didn't plan the big twist of Aizen turning out to be the villain, and he won't plan other things in the future.

In One Piece, we still have the upcoming war over One Piece, and we know that the things aren't just black and white, like Rayleigh implied in his talk with the Strawhats. There's so much more going on besides Luffy becoming the Pirate King.

Where is the predictability in that?


----------



## HolyDemon (Jul 29, 2011)

Team Medical Dragon
Cromartie High School 
Shingeki no Kyojin
Kenji

They're what I would call great manga


----------



## Nikushimi (Jul 29, 2011)

Onani Master Kurosawa.


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## Kobe (Jul 29, 2011)

Edward Newgate said:


> Are you serious? So how about that: Ichigo is going to be the strongest character in Bleach, just like Luffy and Naruto. Where is the surprise here? Actually, he's already became the strongest character, before losing his powers, and he will become the strongest once again.
> 
> How do you think the plot in Bleach is going to progress from now on? How does the Spirit King comes into all this?
> 
> ...



The overuse of things made things predictable. As Void Century, Pirate King, One Piece, Will of D, King Haki etc.

Didn't we all predict who would join Luffy's crew as Luffy counted them all? And it all came true. one.by.one.

Ichigo might not be the strongest character, we don't know that. The shit he pulled was similar to Nightmare Luffy. No one predicted it.  And he actually has the potential to be a strong character considering his background in manga. Hollow/Human/Shinigami triangle. 

The mystery of the things like Bankai of characters like Aizen, Urahara, all those Spirit King etc. make Bleach far more interesting. But that's my opinion.


----------



## La buse (Jul 29, 2011)

Kobe said:


> Kubo is always surprising the readers


----------



## Edward Newgate (Jul 29, 2011)

> The overuse of things made things predictable. As Void Century, Pirate King, One Piece, Will of D, King Haki etc.


What overuse? These elements are all part of the grand scheme of things in OP. How the hell is that predictable? Or do you think that only you can apparently clearly see how it's going to be resolved? Please tell me. What is the "Will of D."? What is One Piece? What happened in the Void Century? You seem to know all of these. So again, please tell us.



> Ichigo might not be the strongest character, we don't know that. The shit he pulled was similar to Nightmare Luffy. No one predicted it. And he actually has the potential to be a strong character considering his background in manga. Hollow/Human/Shinigami triangle.


Ichigo is going to be the strongest character in Bleach. He's the main character of the mainstream manga.
How is Kubo going to bring the Spirit King (which again, probably isn't a living thing anymore, by the way it sounds) and make Ichigo take part in the plot for it to make sense? Whatever is going to happen, something drastic needs to happen in Soul Society so Ichigo will bother to help his friends. The only scenario coming in my mind is that some of the Royal Guard will decide to start a revolution for similar motives like Aizen's and overtake the King. Now why would Ichigo even care in such situation?


----------



## Alpha (Jul 29, 2011)

I can never tell you a manga better than what you think is the best. I can tell you what I think is the best, but if you were to agree with me I doubt it.

-Eyeshield 21
-Sun Ken Rock
-Wolf Guy 
-Veritas 


There are others I like but right now they escape me.


----------



## Kobe (Jul 29, 2011)

Edward Newgate said:


> What overuse? These elements are all part of the grand scheme of things in OP. How the hell is that predictable? Or do you think that only you can apparently clearly see how it's going to be resolved? Please tell me.


I'm not talking about the story, I'm talking about the end result. Unless Luffy is related to Roger, like reincarnation of Roger or something, we all know how Luffy gonna be a pirate king with odds are all favoring him. Teach is strong, a good char for a final villain but in the end Luffy gonna beat him like how he did against Lucci and Croc.


> Ichigo is going to be the strongest character in Bleach. He's the main character of the mainstream manga.


You might say that because it's mainstream but it might not be necessarily. In Slam Dunk, Sakuragi was the main character but he wasn't the best player.. although we knew his potential.



> How is Kubo going to bring the Spirit King (which again, probably isn't a living thing anymore, by the way it sounds) and make Ichigo take part in the plot for it to make sense? Whatever is going to happen, something drastic needs to happen in Soul Society so Ichigo will bother to help his friends. The only scenario coming in my mind is that some of the Royal Guard will decide to start a revolution for similar motives like Aizen's and overtake the King. Now why would Ichigo even care in such situation?


I don't know, we'd have to ask Aizen. I mean Kubo.

This all fullbring thing is already a mystery happening all of a sudden. I'm sure Kubo has the plot ready. I don't believe he's making this all up as he writes the chapters. It might be the case for details but for plot, no.


----------



## Mizura (Jul 29, 2011)

> Are you serious? So how about that: Ichigo is going to be the strongest character in Bleach, just like Luffy and Naruto. Where is the surprise here?


You know, don't dismiss what he's saying so fast. It has to do with the structure of the stories:
- Naruto: Naruto will power up, save Sasuke and become Hokage, and live happily ever after under the adoration of his brain-washed followers.
- One Piece: Luffy will power up, sail the Grand Line and become Pirate King, and live out his days sailing the seas with his friends.
- Bleach: Ichigo will power up and.... ?

Naruto and One Piece pretty much set the general goal from the start. Ichigo as far as I can tell never said anything about wanting to be Spirit King (in fact it doesn't really sound like a happy ending either). We didn't expect Ichigo to lose his powers after all, and we're not very sure how things are evolving now.

This is Not an objective argument to say that Bleach is superior to Naruto or One Piece (since despite the general trends, Naruto and One Piece can still provide a lot of surprises within each arc), but it Is a legitimate reason for personal enjoyment. You could simply say that some people don't really enjoy knowing what the general end or general direction will be. You could say they find it as underwhelming as knowing the end of a murder mystery (murder mysteries Also have a lot of twists in between, but knowing the culprit will still dampen the interest somewhat).

As for a more chapter-by-chapter basis, I can actually see where he's coming from, too. I started reading Bleach in the past arc, and I actually found it enjoyable to read chapter to chapter (by comparison, back then, Naruto had moments that wanted to make me claw my eyes out). Though, I'm not really enjoying the current arc. The thing is, yes, the "trolling" can be viewed as bad writing. But it can also be enjoyable. I found some of those chapters absolutely hilarious, and even if you try to argue with me that it's because they're "bad", they still left me ^___^ instead of =___= or z___z .

Basically what he's saying can't really be called "superior plot", but he enjoys the way the plot is unraveled more.


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## Kobe (Jul 29, 2011)

Mizura said:


> Naruto and One Piece pretty much set the general goal from the start.


Exactly.


> Basically what he's saying can't really be called "superior plot", but he enjoys the way the plot is unraveled more.



yeah I meant that as plot being unpredictable.


----------



## firefist (Jul 29, 2011)

One Piece is too predictable especially at the humor.


----------



## Punpun (Jul 29, 2011)

There is a thing that is superior to "plot".. That is execution. Bleach is clearly lacking there becauseKubo plans nothings and overuse the same thing that brought him there again and again.

Hardly a superior plot.


----------



## Nikushimi (Jul 29, 2011)

Kubo should put Bleach on hiatus and start up Zombiepowder again, then come back when he's got his shit together.


----------



## Edward Newgate (Jul 29, 2011)

> I'm not talking about the story, I'm talking about the end result. Unless Luffy is related to Roger, like reincarnation of Roger or something, we all know how Luffy gonna be a pirate king with odds are all favoring him. Teach is strong, a good char for a final villain but in the end Luffy gonna beat him like how he did against Lucci and Croc.


I'm not sure what you're trying to say anymore. In your previous post you mentioned the "overuse" of things like the Void Century, the One Piece, the Will of D, say that One Piece is completely predictable because Luffy will be the strongest character.



> You might say that because it's mainstream but it might not be necessarily. In Slam Dunk, Sakuragi was the main character but he wasn't the best player.. although we knew his potential.


Slam Dunk isn't a mainstream shounen. You can't compare Takehiko to Kubo.



> This all fullbring thing is already a mystery happening all of a sudden. I'm sure Kubo has the plot ready. I don't believe he's making this all up as he writes the chapters. It might be the case for details but for plot, no.


And like I previously said, Kubo left this concept of the Fullbrings vague and undeveloped. But like some in SL said, they apparently don't need too much exposition because it will take away from the... hm, "mystery".
And no, he doesn't really plan. Kubo himself told in an interview that he didn't plan the Aizen's twist until the moment he died. Only then he decided to give him an illusions based Zanpakutou and turn him into a villain. Then there's also the fact that he didn't plan Halibel to be the 3rd strongest until some point, can't remember what exactly he said in the previous characters book (I think it was the 2nd character book, yeah).



> There is a thing that is superior to "plot".. That is execution. Bleach is clearly lacking there becauseKubo plans nothings and overuse the same thing that brought him there again and again.
> 
> Hardly a superior plot.


Fucking this.


----------



## firefist (Jul 29, 2011)

always amazing how opfags rampage in every single comparison thread.


----------



## Mist Puppet (Jul 29, 2011)

Solanin, Adventure Boys, Cross Game, Touch, Berserk, Blade of the Immortal, Lucifer and the Biscuit Hammer, FMA

ones that came off the top of my head


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## Edward Newgate (Jul 29, 2011)

Firefist said:


> always amazing how opfags rampage in every single comparison thread.


Right, because all I've been saying until now is how One Piece is the best manga ever and stuff, right?
I disagreed with Kobe's post, but I can't express my opinion too?


----------



## Kobe (Jul 29, 2011)

> Slam Dunk isn't a mainstream shounen. You can't compare Takehiko to Kubo.


That doesn't matter. The story is relevant in Bleach. Urahara might as well be the savior, or the final villain. Also if Ichigo gains a temporary powerup to beat someone like Aizen, I wouldn't really call him the strongest character. Even now I think Aizen is still much superior.. Aizen being arrogant throughout the manga bringed his doom.. somewhat like Enel.


> And like I previously said, Kubo left this concept of the Fullbrings vague and undeveloped. But like some in SL said, they apparently don't need too much exposition because it will take away from the... hm, "mystery".
> And no, he doesn't really plan. Kubo himself told in an interview that he didn't plan the Aizen's twist until the moment he died. Only then he decided to give him an illusions based Zanpakutou and turn him into a villain. Then there's also the fact that he didn't plan Halibel to be the 3rd strongest until some point, can't remember what exactly he said in the previous characters book (I think it was the 2nd character book, yeah).


have you read Bakuman? It gives a nice insight to manga.

Aizen turning to villain was in first arc notable. SS Arc. Kubo might have talked to his editor and via brainstorming he might have come to a great idea, the twist.. but the things afterwards with Aizen planning the shit, turn back to pendulum etc. was consistent.. so he has a plot ready right now.

anyway I'm done. I'm not trying to impose my opinion to anyone here. I just stated that there are better mangas etc. you can say OP is the best ever, I'll strongly disagree with that but I'm not gonna beat you up for it.


----------



## Kunkka (Jul 29, 2011)

I want my plot to be super random. It's super interesting that way. 

And I want my characters to be stab in the back. Really unpredictable. I want them to have cool poses every panel then a training arc so that the villain will wait for them to get stronger.


----------



## Cromer (Jul 29, 2011)

I am disappoint.


People aren't mentioning Hiromu Arakawa's _magnum opus, *Fullmetal Alchemist?*_


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## Punpun (Jul 29, 2011)

Arakawa's magnum opus is silver poon young leaf.


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## firefist (Jul 29, 2011)

Edward Newgate said:


> Right, because all I've been saying until now is how One Piece is the best manga ever and stuff, right?
> I disagreed with Kobe's post, but I can't express my opinion too?


look down below


Kunkka said:


> I want my plot to be super random. It's super interesting that way.
> 
> And I want my characters to be stab in the back. Really unpredictable. I want them to have cool poses every panel then a training arc so that the villain will wait for them to get stronger.


----------



## Whitebeard (Jul 29, 2011)

Anasazi said:


> What mangas does the OP crowd think are better?



Berserk                          .

And maybe Code Geass


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## Edward Newgate (Jul 29, 2011)

> That doesn't matter. The story is relevant in Bleach. Urahara might as well be the savior, or the final villain. Also if Ichigo gains a temporary powerup to beat someone like Aizen, I wouldn't really call him the strongest character. Even now I think Aizen is still much superior.. Aizen being arrogant throughout the manga bringed his doom.. somewhat like Enel.


Of course Aizen IS much superior. Ichigo is weak right now. And no, Ichigo was strongest than him. He surpassed him, and Aizen himself said so as I recall.
And yes it matters. You can't compare a mainstream fighting manga to a non mainstream sports manga to make a point that Ichigo might not become the strongest.




> Aizen turning to villain was in first arc notable. SS Arc. Kubo might have talked to his editor and via brainstorming he might have come to a great idea, the twist.. but the things afterwards with Aizen planning the shit, turn back to pendulum etc. was consistent.. so he has a plot ready right now.
> 
> anyway I'm done. I'm not trying to impose my opinion to anyone here. I just stated that there are better mangas etc. you can say OP is the best ever, I'll strongly disagree with that but I'm not gonna beat you up for it.


Turn Back the Pendulum, as much as I liked it, wasn't so complicated warrant careful planning.

And no, I'm not going to say that OP is the best manga ever. The one I enjoy the most, but not the best.


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## firefist (Jul 29, 2011)

slam dunk is mainstream. it was voted as japans favorite manga some years ago and sold over 120 million copies.


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## Mizura (Jul 29, 2011)

> Bleach is clearly lacking there because Kubo plans nothings and overuse the same thing that brought him there again and again.


Actually, the notion that a story has to be planned to be a good one is actually false. Did you know? Neither Stephen King nor Hayao Miyazaki plot their stories.






			
				Comment on Stephen King's book said:
			
		

> Some very original thoughts I found quite interesting:
> 
> 1. Story is a fossil you find on the ground, and you gradually dig it out slowly.
> 
> 2. He doesn't plot his stories. He puts "a group of characters in some sort of predicament and then watch them try to work themselves free." In fact he even goes as far as to say, "plot is shift, and best kept under house arrest."





			
				Interview with Hayao Miyazaki said:
			
		

> Is it true that your films are all made without a script?
> 
> That's true. I don't have the story finished and ready when we start work on a film. I usually don't have the time. So the story develops when I start drawing storyboards.


In fact, Pixar started Wall-E when it only had the first scene in mind. They only figured out the rest later on, originally the story was supposed to be about aliens.

Planning can be pretty important, of course, for a story to develop well. But for some authors it also gets in the way of the flow. I think Naruto is a particularly awful case of the planning getting in the way of the story flow and characters: if you look at the first few arcs of Part II, it should be obvious that the author's goal was something like "Okay, the arc will end with [this] and [this]. Naruto needs to show off, so let's show the faces of the support cast for fan-service then get rid of them by having them fight some fillers."

In those arcs, the support cast was clearly there just to pad pages, and didn't feel like real "people" anymore, there to smile when the situation is supposed to be happy, and look sad when the situation is tragic (my first shock of Naruto Part II was Lee acting like a clown and excited about racing rather than being worried for Gaara, with whom he's had quite a few events too. Other things include how nearly none of the support cast bothers Talking to Naruto, save Shikamaru, who's something of an author's pet). Kishimoto was writing in a way that would get things done rather than "if these characters were together, in this situation, how would they react?"

I'm not saying the author of Bleach is Hayao Miyazaki, not at all, but if he doesn't have the general ending in mind, that isn't in itself necessarily a bad thing.

(in case you're wondering why I know all this, I did some research back in the days on how you're supposed to write a good story. I was really surprised that some very good writers didn't bother to plot too much)


----------



## Cromer (Jul 29, 2011)

Punpun said:


> Arakawa's magnum opus is silver poon young leaf.


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## Kobe (Jul 29, 2011)

@Mizura

yeah I always got the feeling Kubo has a free mind about all this. I mean he's not rushing anything, even the transition between chapters/arcs are not that sharp. He's sailing calmly.

If someone else like Kishi or Oda wrote that manga, he'd rush all fights and we'd see bankai, powerups etc. in an arc. And eventually we'd predict the outcome.


*Spoiler*: _Spoiler for recent chapter_ 



Almost everyone predicted that Ishida would help Ichigo somehow.. look how it turned out with Ginjou flipping like that.. The situation turned to much worse in one chapter.

I like that.


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## ONI GIRI (Jul 29, 2011)

@FireFist what is the best manga you have read/are reading..?


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## firefist (Jul 29, 2011)

ONI GIRI said:


> @FireFist what is the best manga you have read/are reading..?



Slam Dunk, JJBA Part 2 and 3, Berserk, Yakitate!! Japan, Vagabond.


the other favs like Addicted to Curry, Hellsing, Worst, etc. are most likely biased opinions.

also planning on reading urasawa's works, gto and real.


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## Punpun (Jul 29, 2011)

Mizura said:


> Actually, the notion that a story has to be planned to be a good one is actually false. Did you know? Neither Stephen King nor Hayao Miyazaki plot their stories.



All in all you actually accepted what I said.. That is Execution trumps all. :33

And yes, I do know this.


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## MdB (Jul 29, 2011)

Punpun said:


> There is a thing that is superior to "plot".. That is execution. Bleach is clearly lacking there becauseKubo plans nothings and overuse the same thing that brought him there again and again.
> 
> Hardly a superior plot.



you forgot its worst offense, the pacing

what your average author manages to tell in 10 chapters is magnified by 40 in bleach

and then there are the giant white backgrounds, ink blobs, and shocked faces...


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## Mizura (Jul 29, 2011)

Punpun said:


> All in all you actually accepted what I said.. That is Execution trumps all. :33


Um, no, you said execution was bad "Because" "Kubo plans nothings." As I've shown, it was a faulty argument.  

You don't need planning to have good execution (see Stephen King, Hayao Miyazaki, improvisation artists...) By the way, for those curious as to how Hayao Miyazaki Does work: first he gets the backgrounds drawn, then he imagines the characters wandering through the scenes.


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## Dream Brother (Jul 29, 2011)

I don't really understand the big fuss over _One Piece_. I read a fairly big chunk of it and I was left unmoved. Not bad, but not my kinda thing either.


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## Punpun (Jul 29, 2011)

Mizura said:


> Um, no, you said execution was bad "Because" "Kubo plans nothings." As I've shown, it was a faulty argument.
> 
> You don't need planning to have good execution (see Stephen King, Hayao Miyazaki, improvisation artists...) By the way, for those curious as to how Hayao Miyazaki Does work: first he gets the backgrounds drawn, then he imagines the characters wandering through the scenes.



No, no. You cited genius and said they didn't planned. This doesn't invalidate in the least that if mortals don't plan something then the execution will be contrived. (See students, scolars, artists ect)

So yes, you do need planning, especially in mangas to have a coherent plot. Miyazaki did one manga in his life btw.. It took him 10+ years. Kubo have to invents things all the time on the spot. We thus clearly see his limits. 

Or maybe you are trying to put Kubo at the same level of Miyazaki and other rare artists that do not "plan" and so successfully.

So yeah, you clearly accepted what I said but pointed out that execution doesn't lie solely on planing. (A thing that I didn't claim btw)

tl;dr. It ain't a faulty argument because it wasn't a general sttatement but addresed to Kubo's case.


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## p-lou (Jul 29, 2011)

Dream Brother said:


> I don't really understand the big fuss over _One Piece_. I read a fairly big chunk of it and I was left unmoved. Not bad, but not my kinda thing either.





i wish you could have liked it

but different strokes for different folks i suppose


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## Kirito (Jul 29, 2011)

Dream Brother said:


> I don't really understand the big fuss over _One Piece_. I read a fairly big chunk of it and I was left unmoved. Not bad, but not my kinda thing either.



It's okay. I tried to read Sun Ken-Rock too, but all the nudity just didn't do it for me. Not that it's bad of course, I lasted until 28, but it just wasn't my kinda thing. Different manga, same logic


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## Bluebeard (Jul 29, 2011)

^

Kirito, One Piece fanboy at it's worst.


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## Kirito (Jul 29, 2011)

Bluebeard said:


> ^
> 
> Kirito, One Piece fanboy at it's worst.



whatever did i do to you? i just compared his and my experiences about picking different manga and finding out it wasn't to our taste.


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## Bluebeard (Jul 29, 2011)

Kirito said:


> whatever did i do to you? i just compared his and my experiences about picking different manga and finding out it wasn't to our taste.



It's not about what you do to me or anything. This shit ain't personal.

However, it seems if anybody criticizes or announces that they don't like One Piece you'll jump on them like a dog would to a man covered in gravy.


----------



## Kirito (Jul 29, 2011)

Bluebeard said:


> It's not about what you do to me or anything. This shit ain't personal.
> 
> However, it seems if anybody criticizes or announces that they don't like One Piece you'll jump on them like a dog would to a man covered in gravy.



no man. it's just you.

i'm more of an avatard and a poketard than an optard. should i change the analogy of sun ken rock to digimon then?


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## Bluebeard (Jul 29, 2011)

Kirito said:


> no man. it's just you.
> 
> i'm more of an avatard and a poketard than an optard. should i change the analogy of sun ken rock to digimon then?



It doesn't matter what you change the analogy to, it's clear that you have a problem with anybody who has a problem with One Piece.


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## Kirito (Jul 29, 2011)

Bluebeard said:


> It doesn't matter what you change the analogy to, it's clear that you have a problem with anybody who has a problem with One Piece.



You don't see me praising OP everywhere do you? I just stated an analogy and someone takes it the wrong way.

Whatever, you're just still hung up on what people said after I posted some things back on the Shirahoshi is an idiot thread.


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## Bluebeard (Jul 29, 2011)

Kirito said:


> You don't see me praising OP everywhere do you? I just stated an analogy and someone takes it the wrong way.
> 
> Whatever, you're just still hung up on what people said after I posted some things back on the Shirahoshi is an idiot thread.



Look at your posts in the OP v. Naruto v. Bleach v. FT thread. 

And funny that you would be the one bring up that thread. Clearly, you are hung up on it.


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## Kirito (Jul 29, 2011)

Bluebeard said:


> Look at your posts in the OP v. Naruto v. Bleach v. FT thread.
> 
> And funny that you would be the one bring up that thread. Clearly, you are hung up on it.



Original Sin always does that to me, I always do that to him, it goes back to the OBD. Why should you care? Are you his dupe or something? Besides, I made that post since everyone was shitting on shounen, nitpicking everything and basically going off topic. When I posted that one, everyone went back to topic. What's so bad about stopping a thread from derailing?

Nah man, just reminiscing on how I kicked some ass in there.


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## Bluebeard (Jul 29, 2011)

Kirito said:


> Original Sin always does that to me, I always do that to him, it goes back to the OBD. Why should you care? Are you his dupe or something? Besides, I made that post since everyone was shitting on shounen, nitpicking everything and basically going off topic. When I posted that one, everyone went back to topic. What's so bad about stopping a thread from derailing?
> 
> Nah man, just reminiscing on how I kicked some ass in there.





You called everyone pussies for not praising shonen. 

And no I'm not Original Sin's dupe, we don't even have the same posting style. 

All you did in that thread was say, "Well OP is silly, so it's okay!" or "If you lived in a asian country, you'd understand!"

But I'm not going to derail this thread any further by arguing with a fanboy, so I'll just stop here.


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## Kirito (Jul 29, 2011)

Bluebeard said:


> You called everyone pussies for not praising shonen.
> 
> And no I'm not Original Sin's dupe, we don't even have the same posting style.
> 
> ...



Are you a stalker or something? Well, whatever helps you sleep at night buddy.

I'll stop here too.


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## Blinky (Jul 29, 2011)

> Nah man, just reminiscing on how I kicked some ass in there.



Yeah man arguements about Japanese kids comics are badazzzzzzzzzzzzz 

can this thread go bye bye now ?


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## Dream Brother (Jul 29, 2011)

p-lou said:


> i wish you could have liked it
> 
> but different strokes for different folks i suppose



I can sorta understand why people like it -- it has a sort of light-hearted energy to it all. I think I'm not really compatible with it, though...when thinking about all my favourite Manga, the most consistent element seems to be emotional heaviness (bit of a vague phrase, but the best I can come up with) with a focus on character. OP, on the other hand, seems to have a deliberate lightness to it. 

On the positive side, I actually kinda like the artwork for that series now. Back when I first came across it I really didn't take to it, but over time I've warmed to Oda's art style. It's interesting to see a distinctive style like that.


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## Blinky (Jul 29, 2011)

Heh I'm kinda similiar. Things that are more depressive in nature tend to strike a chord  with me. Wonder why that is.


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## SAFFF (Jul 29, 2011)

One Piece is the bestest because it makes me feel 12 again and all giddy inside my intestines.


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## Mizura (Jul 29, 2011)

Punpun said:


> No, no. You cited genius and said they didn't planned. This doesn't invalidate in the least that if mortals don't plan something then the execution will be contrived. (See students, scolars, artists ect)


What, so I should have cited people who do mediocre works? Then you'd have said that their works are "mediocre" anyway. :| If you want mediocre, how about Twilight, which the writer wrote in a rush after a dream (and with the characters apparently whispering into her head for the rest)? We all know the plot makes no sense, but I once read a passage from the book online, and I was forced to admit that it was an engaging read (a bit like porn, minus the sex). Twilight sells so well because the style ("execution") was actually well done.

But no matter what you say, Bleach is a top-selling manga too. I've actually read criticism that precisely because Stephen King doesn't have his endings in mind, his endings tend not to be very good (in the critiques' opinion). Yet tens of millions of readers enjoy his stories just fine (endings included), both the short and long ones.



> So yes, you do need planning, especially in mangas to have a coherent plot. Miyazaki did one manga in his life btw.. It took him 10+ years. Kubo have to invents things all the time on the spot. We thus clearly see his limits.


Well that's not true at all. I've read a good number of manga where in the author's notes, you end up finding comments like "Wow, I originally intended this to be a one-shot, but thanks to your support, it somehow got serialised!" "It was as though the characters told me what to write" "I had originally planned one thing, but somehow when I got to that point, the story turned out differently!" etc.

Bakuman seems to suggest that many authors don't have the story fully planned. Depending on the popularity of their work, viewer feedback or on whether the series is supposed to end etc., they can discuss with their editors to change the course of the story and/or add new plot points on the go. When they want to end things, they may read back to see if there are any loose plots, and think up a suitable ending based on that.

Dragon Ball is also a good example of on-the-go planning: Goku was originally supposed to be an Earthling, and was later made to be an alien. I'm a big fan of 7 Seeds, and I don't really get the impression that it's planned from start to finish either (there are absolutely no hints of what the ending will be), nor do I see the need, since the author instead focuses on the environmental and interpersonal relations of each team as they reach a new area or meet new people. I'm also pretty impressed by the twist in Rosario+Vampire. It obviously started as a lighthearted comedy, but the author much later on added on a much more elaborate plot (a rather "wtf, is this the same manga?!?" instance, but for the better).



> Or maybe you are trying to put Kubo at the same level of Miyazaki and other rare artists that do not "plan" and so successfully.


Unlike you, I state clearly what I mean or don't mean. And in this case, I clearly said that I'm not saying that Kubo = Miyazaki. Just that your argument was a faulty one:



			
				Mizura said:
			
		

> I'm not saying the author of Bleach is Hayao Miyazaki, not at all, but if he doesn't have the general ending in mind, that isn't in itself necessarily a bad thing.





> tl;dr. It ain't a faulty argument because it wasn't a general sttatement but addresed to Kubo's case.


You say this Right after claiming that "execution = good planning (except for geniuses)" in the same post. Right.

Alright then: I believe your argument is Still wrong. If Bleach's plot is or becomes uninteresting, then it's not because of Kubo's poor planning. It's because of his poor imagination. Other manga authors add plotlines that were not originally intended, and the readers enjoy them just fine.

Kishimoto plans his stories a lot. I've made extensive studies in the past on his story structure, and came to the conclusion that he uses highly-structured top-down approaches. As Part II progressed, I realised that this was precisely why his writing became shittier, because he became a prisoner to his structures rather than letting the characters act in a natural way.

Also I could also put it another way: *do you Honestly think that Bleach would have been better if the author Did plan it more*? No amount of planning will ever compensate for:
- Lack of imagination for interesting plotlines and new interesting elements
- Excessively long battles (more planned series drag their battles out too)
- In Naruto's case, the planning actually got in the way of character writing


----------



## Punpun (Jul 29, 2011)

*Spoiler*: __ 





Mizura said:


> What, so I should have cited people who do mediocre works? Then you'd have said that their works are "mediocre" anyway. :| If you want mediocre, how about Twilight, which the writer wrote in a rush after a dream (and with the characters apparently whispering into her head for the rest)? We all know the plot makes no sense, but I once read a passage from the book online, and I was forced to admit that it was an engaging read (a bit like porn, minus the sex). Twilight sells so well because the style ("execution") was actually well done.
> 
> But no matter what you say, Bleach is a top-selling manga too. I've actually read criticism that precisely because Stephen King doesn't have his endings in mind, his endings tend not to be very good (in the critiques' opinion). Yet tens of millions of readers enjoy his stories just fine (endings included), both the short and long ones.



Wow, the it's popular so it's good argument ?



> Well that's not true at all. I've read a good number of manga where in the author's notes, you end up finding comments like "Wow, I originally intended this to be a one-shot, but thanks to your support, it somehow got serialised!" "It was as though the characters told me what to write" "I had originally planned one thing, but somehow when I got to that point, the story turned out differently!" etc.


So ?


> Bakuman seems to suggest that many authors don't have the story fully planned. Depending on the popularity of their work, viewer feedback or on whether the series is supposed to end etc., they can discuss with their editors to change the course of the story and/or add new plot points on the go. When they want to end things, they may read back to see if there are any loose plots, and think up a suitable ending based on that.


And that's not what planning is ? Discussing what you will do ? 



> Dragon Ball is also a good example of on-the-go planning: Goku was originally supposed to be an Earthling, and was later made to be an alien. I'm a big fan of 7 Seeds, and I don't really get the impression that it's planned from start to finish either (there are absolutely no hints of what the ending will be), nor do I see the need, since the author instead focuses on the environmental and interpersonal relations of each team as they reach a new area or meet new people. I'm also pretty impressed by the twist in Rosario+Vampire. It obviously started as a lighthearted comedy, but the author much later on added on a much more elaborate plot (a rather "wtf, is this the same manga?!?" instance, but for the better).


So ?






> Unlike you, I state clearly what I mean or don't mean. And in this case, I clearly said that I'm not saying that Kubo = Miyazaki. Just that your argument was a faulty one.


And it still isn't.




> You say this Right after claiming that "execution = good planning (except for geniuses)". Right.


That's another logical fallacy.. "So you're saying x.."


> Alright then: I believe your argument is Still wrong.* If Bleach's plot is or becomes uninteresting*, then it's not because of Kubo's poor planning. It's because of his poor imagination. Other manga authors add plotlines that were not originally intended, and the readers enjoy them just fine.


*No you don't. Belive that my argument is wrong that is. My argument was "Kubo has a poor execution' That wasa the argument. You agree with it. (bolded part) I then etoffed this argument, explaining why.. And that's because no planning so the story is too bad. What I added. Lack of imagination like you said and others things. But just saying two of the reason why are enough. 

You're just arguing for the sake of arguing. This or simply saw a word and pulled it out of context.* 

*Spoiler*: __ 






> Kishimoto plans his stories a lot. I've made extensive studies in the past on his story structure, and came to the conclusion that he uses highly-structured top-down approaches. As Part II progressed, I realised that this was precisely why his writing became shittier, because he became a prisoner to his structures rather than letting the characters act in a natural way.


Irrelevant to the discussion at hand.


----------



## Punpun (Jul 29, 2011)

> Alright, I could also put it another way: *do you Honestly think that Bleach would have been better if the author Did plan it more*? No amount of planning will ever compensate for:
> - Lack of imagination for interesting plotlines and new interesting elements
> - Excessively long battles (more planned series drag their battles out too)
> - In Naruto's case, the planning actually got in the way of character writing




That's a whole another discussion so it goes on another post..

Yes it would. By doing so, it would have improved the pacing issue, and the general execution because if he did know or had a general idea towards his goal then it won't stalls like this.

But hey, that's completly irrelevant.. "What if" discussion are meh..

And Kubo is no Kishi.


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## Mizura (Jul 29, 2011)

> Wow, the it's popular so it's good argument ?


Wow, I told you so. Now that I've given you a Mediocre manga instead of a genius one, you dismiss it out of hand. I'm saying even human non-genius writers can write without planning.



> No you don't. Belive that my argument is wrong that is. My argument was "Kubo has a poor execution'


Saying that a story is just poorly executed is NOT an argument. It'd be like me saying that "One Piece is bad because it's boring." Thus, the Explanations for that claim are what make the argument, and your arguments in this case were "because he doesn't plan" and "he re-uses the same things over and over."

I did NOT agree with you, so don't say that I did.



> Yes it would. By doing so, it would have improved the pacing issue, and the general execution


Yet planned manga like Naruto stall things just fine. It has more arcs but many lead to dead-ends. And you're going in circles on the "execution" part.

I used the Naruto example to show that planning does not resolve any of the problems you say Bleach faces because of its lack of planning.

Actually, the pacing issue is more due to the fact that Bleach introduced too many characters. Naruto also introduced too many characters, and the way it handled this was to reduce them to fodder (which isn't such an ideal outcome either). Bleach chose to give large amounts of panel time to each character instead.


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## SAFFF (Jul 29, 2011)

I don't know if Kubo lacks imagination. The explanation for Shinj's sword was pretty interesting.


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## Kobe (Jul 29, 2011)

Punpun, what the hell is your point man? Kubo's execution is poor? Care to explain what that means by examples so we understand what the hell you mean? If you mean by pace, then Mizura already explained it and agrees with you. If you mean by story evolving, then Mizura said that too, giving examples from Stephen King and all. What you say now doesn't make sense. You're just disagreeing with her/him for the sake of it.


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## Kobe (Jul 29, 2011)

S.A.F said:


> I don't know if Kubo lacks imagination. The explanation for Shinj's sword was pretty interesting.



That'd be the most ridiculous thing to say IMO. Kyoraku's Shikai is damn too good. Naruto or One Piece doesn't have things like that. Instead they go by nature stuff. Always reminding you Pokemon.


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## Bluebeard (Jul 29, 2011)

Both Kubo and Oda are pretty good at making interesting powers, but I'd say that Oda is better at taking the power and having it used in interesting applications. All of Luffy's Gomu Gomu moves require a lot of imagination.

Of course, JJBA shits on both of them when it comes to crazy powers.


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## Punpun (Jul 29, 2011)

Mizura, you know what ? I believe we should agree to disagree.  Want to think what you were arguing... Feel free to do. 

---





> Punpun, what the hell is your point man? Kubo's execution is poor? Care  to explain what that means by examples so we understand what the hell  you mean? If you mean by pace, then Mizura already explained it and  agrees with you. If you mean by story evolving, then Mizura said that  too, giving examples from Stephen King and all. What you say now doesn't  make sense. You're just disagreeing with her/him for the sake of it.


I bolded it. Yes it is. Read a Furuya's work, Then compare with Kubo's. I rest my case.


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## firefist (Jul 29, 2011)

lol you can say whatcha want but creativity and style is one of kubo'S strong points.

and lol luffy's powers arent special. ever heared of mr fantastic or buu?


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## Kobe (Jul 29, 2011)

Punpun said:


> Mizura, you know what ? I believe we should agree to disagree.  Want to think Kubo's story has good execution because Some mangakas were successful in having a non planned story or whatever you wanted to argue... Feel free to do.
> 
> ---
> 
> I bolded it. Yes it is. Read a Furuya's work, Then compare with Kubo's. I rest my case.



Bleach's story isn't bad o.O Not at all.


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## Mizura (Jul 29, 2011)

> Want to think Kubo's story has good execution because Some mangakas were successful in having a non planned story or whatever you wanted to argue..


That's not what I said either. =.= 

Imagine if someone says this: "One Piece is not the best manga because the main characters are kids."

Even if I agreed that One Piece is not the best manga, it wouldn't be because "the main characters are kids." I'd respond to the "because his characters are kids" argument accordingly by showing many cases of successful stories with kids. Just because other successful stories are with adults, it doesn't validate the "characters are kids = bad" claim.

By the way, having been on these forums for Many years already... basically, I've noticed that Kishimoto plans each arc in roughly 3 phases:
- an introduction phase. Usually, within the first 3 chapters, he will announce the main protagonists and antagonists of the arc, though you don't necessarily know which ones it will be. In the next few chapters, he will have a few occurrences or battles, but the battles in this phase are Always short, less than 3 chapters.
- one or several intermediate phases. Usually filled with filler battles by the unimportant extras, or filler battles that don't lead to anything important.
- the final phase, which holds the "important" battle of the arc.

Sitting through these forums arc after arc, the forum reactions are pretty consistent: every time we get the "introduction phase" battles, people will complain "wtf this story is SO rushed!" (Deidara vs Gaara, Sasuke vs Orochimaru etc.) When we reach the intermediate phase or final phase battles though, that last at the very least half a dozen chapters, and easily more, that's when people Always complain "wtf this battle is So drawn-out! Why's the story so slow?"

So in this case, the planning used is Directly responsible for the bad pacing. See?


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## Punpun (Jul 29, 2011)

I edited my post. It didn't carryed correctly what I wanted to say. :33


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## Bluebeard (Jul 29, 2011)

Firefist said:


> and lol luffy's powers arent special. ever heared of mr fantastic or buu?



His power isn't special, but how he uses them is *very* creative.


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## Violent by Design (Jul 29, 2011)

I'm at a lost, what is so creative about Bleach? It is a pretty typical action manga. If anything, I find that world to be very bland and undeveloped.


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## MdB (Jul 29, 2011)

Kubo's creativity and imagination is so amazing that he can only be arsed to draw bland scenery, or recycle Aizen's run-of-the-mill character design, only for it to be transplanted unto another personality-impaired douchebag.


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## firefist (Jul 29, 2011)

Bluebeard said:


> His power isn't special, but how he uses them is *very* creative.



his base attacks are boring.
the gear system was a nice addition though.
franky, chopper, robin and usopp have a far more creative arsenal.


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## Kobe (Jul 29, 2011)

Violent By Design said:


> I'm at a lost, what is so creative about Bleach? It is a pretty typical action manga. If anything, I find that world to be very bland and undeveloped.


It might not be special at that category but to say it's not creative would be blasphemy. Compared to typical adventure mangas, action manga with its unique story is what makes it special. Kubo is spicing that up with variety of characters. From Human to Shinigami, From Hollow to Vizard ..  and finally Fullbringers. You can't say the character backgrounds aren't interesting imo. Even the filler Bounty Arc was interesting.


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## Violent by Design (Jul 29, 2011)

Kobe said:


> It might not be special at that category but to say it's not creative would be blasphemy.
> 
> Compared to typical adventure mangas, action manga with its unique story is what makes it special.


Bleach is a very cliche manga, I have no idea what is ":unique" about its plotline. It is cut and dry as any other action manga out there. A new bad guy shows up, the gang has to get stronger to topple them. That is the core of the plotline. The only time it was a bit different was near the start of the manga.

And I can't say I've read any manga that I enjoyed that was less creative than Bleach. 



> Kubo is spicing that up with variety of characters. From Human to Shinigami, From Hollow to Vizard ..  and finally Fullbringers. You can't say the character backgrounds aren't interesting imo. Even the filler Bounty Arc was interesting.



More characters doesn't make a story interesting. Bleach has a ton of throw away characters, and really none of the characters in Bleach are very well developed or have interesting personalities. Most of them end up not doing anything of importance.


In the face of 1000s of mangas out there, I can't call Bleach a creative piece of work. That is an insult to all the quality manga that I have read. Its art direction in itself, is an absolute joke. It is unbelievably stale and there is no way to actually get sucked into their world visually.


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## MdB (Jul 29, 2011)

A large cast doesn't amount to good characterization and world building, especially when all the interesting characters are relegated to supporting roles, or just plain ignored.


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## Bluebeard (Jul 29, 2011)

Firefist said:


> *his base attacks are boring.*the gear system was a nice addition though.
> franky, chopper, robin and usopp have a far more creative arsenal.



Maybe to you, Firefist. But I'm still amazed that Oda managed to pull that many attacks and techniques from a simple power like Rubber. 

On the topic of Kubo's characters, he's admitted that when he faces writer's block he just creates new characters. So when he gets bored with them, they're left unused and undeveloped, kind of like the Vizards or worse, killing off all the Espada.


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## firefist (Jul 29, 2011)

bleach has one point that is rarely seen in any manga.

and that is presentation. the general use of designs, panel setups, angles, etc.
it's the most artisitc manga in the wsj.


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## MdB (Jul 29, 2011)

Amazing.


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## Kobe (Jul 29, 2011)

o.o

then I can say the same thing about One Piece. Every arc, characters match up and they fight, SHs win, yay, buttsecks.

And Bleach isn't like you described it. I think you either aint up to date or just skimming the whole thing. You are missing things. Lol @ the gang has to get strong. The gang hardly play any part except Ichigo and Orihime's abilities. Ishida is a laughing stock. Chad is all about dat goatee.

More characters does make the story interesting in Bleach's case. Because they are all unique. I've read how Kubo came up with Bleach characters. He first draws them, then as he places them in manga those characters get unique background and abilities. To say that's not creative or interesting would be indeed blasphemy. For example, in Naruto Sakura-Hinata-Ino-Karin etc. all look same to me. They are undeveloped Kunoichi who worth shit.. maybe Karin is somewhat more relevant with biting thing but that's the generic kunoichi in manga. Bleach doesn't have such thing. Rukia, Orihime, or the ones in SS are all unique. That's why they are interesting.

I agree about art, although character designs are top tier I find Kubo's stubborness to draw backgrounds disappointing. But it's his manga, at least it's not like HxH. I got accustomed to it. And actually enjoying those eye shots, or foot now as it may sound disturbing O.O


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## firefist (Jul 29, 2011)

Bluebeard said:


> Maybe to you, Firefist. But I'm still amazed that Oda managed to pull that many attacks and techniques from a simple power like Rubber.



nah, cant seem to remember any creative base attack.
but when the gear system got introduced it was finally gettin good. gear 3 was incredible.


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## p-lou (Jul 29, 2011)

Dream Brother said:


> I can sorta understand why people like it -- it has a sort of light-hearted energy to it all. I think I'm not really compatible with it, though...when thinking about all my favourite Manga, the most consistent element seems to be emotional heaviness (bit of a vague phrase, but the best I can come up with) with a focus on character. OP, on the other hand, seems to have a deliberate lightness to it.
> 
> On the positive side, I actually kinda like the artwork for that series now. Back when I first came across it I really didn't take to it, but over time I've warmed to Oda's art style. It's interesting to see a distinctive style like that.



oh i understand.  it never seemed like it'd be your thing, but i always hope that the things i enjoy are enjoyed by people i like and share common tastes with.

but i love it for the light-heartedness.  it's overly goofy, filled with energy and overly romantic.  it's almost pure escapism for me.  i think we share pretty similar tastes, but one thing that draws me to comics in general is how unique of a story telling medium they are.  there are things that make total sense in a comic, or that can be very effective in a comic that would fail miserably in a novel or film.  as much as i like stories like real or monster, i think they are stories that could translate well to prose or film or a stage play.  i like stories and ideas that can only be done through a comic, and i think one piece embraces its comic status well.

i get not being emotionally gripped by one piece.  it isn't that i think it's emotionally flat, but rather emotionally familiar.  it's straight forward thematically and all the emotional highs and lows are things people have seen and felt before, but still effective (mostly).  as a musical analogy, i'd liken one piece to a simple major triad played with one hand on a piano, where something like town of evening calm would be like dominant thirteenth played by a full orchestra: much fuller, deeper, and complex.


----------



## riki-oh (Jul 29, 2011)

tl;dr 

looks gay though


----------



## p-lou (Jul 29, 2011)

sorry riki


----------



## riki-oh (Jul 29, 2011)

keep it short dummy


----------



## Bluebeard (Jul 29, 2011)

Firefist said:


> nah, cant seem to remember any creative base attack.
> but when the gear system got introduced it was finally gettin good. gear 3 was incredible.



I'll name a few for you. Gomu Gomu no Fusen, Gomu Gomu no Tako Hanabi, and Gomu Gomu no Mikata Robo all come to mind.

And yes, the Gears were a great addition.


----------



## p-lou (Jul 29, 2011)

i like one piece it's good i guess i suck the end


----------



## Geralt of Rivia (Jul 29, 2011)

Vinland Saga is the best manga I've read.


----------



## firefist (Jul 29, 2011)

Bluebeard said:


> I'll name a few for you. Gomu Gomu no Fusen, Gomu Gomu no Tako Hanabi, and Gomu Gomu no Mikata Robo all come to mind.
> 
> And yes, the Gears were a great addition.



fusen is pretty standard, buu used something similar.
the other two are more special but how often were they used? once?


----------



## Violent by Design (Jul 29, 2011)

Kobe said:


> o.o
> 
> then I can say the same thing about One Piece. Every arc, characters match up and they fight, SHs win, yay, buttsecks.


Who cares about One Piece? The storyline for One Piece isn't its strong point either. And for what it is worth, One Piece dwells into adventure, mystery and conspiracy much better than Bleach does. Bleach is only about combat, and its out take on how to present that is as cliche as any other action manga. There is nothing unique about it. 



> And Bleach isn't like you described it. I think you either aint up to date or just skimming the whole thing. You are missing things. Lol @ the gang has to get strong. The gang hardly play any part except Ichigo and Orihime's abilities. Ishida is a laughing stock. Chad is all about dat goatee.



Two things

- No, I am not up to date because I do not read Bleach anymore. I don't have to be up to date. Bleach is 100s of chapters long, if it took them this long to have "unique" story, then you cannot call the manga as a whole unique. 

- And yes, I was actually exaggerating when I said "the gang". In fact, Ichigo is the only person who ever does anything. Which is really just another point into how crappy the characters are in Bleach. 



> More characters does make the story interesting in Bleach's case.
> 
> Because they are all unique.


Unique in what way? Most of the Lieutenants and basically all of the Arrancar who were not Espada are absolutely forgettable, and it almost seems as if Kubo made up their powers with in a minute. I am not impressed with any of the powers in Bleach, because most of them generally come down to who has more "muscle" than the other. The powers are almost just aesthetic. 



> I've read how Kubo came up with Bleach characters. He first draws them, then as he places them in manga those characters get unique background and abilities.To say that's not creative or interesting would be indeed blasphemy.


 He is creative because...he makes his own characters? I don't see what you're trying to say. Drawing someone is purely aesthetic, so what if he figures out what they look like first before making up their powers. I'm not positive what you're trying to tell me, are you implying that he just makes his characters up with out any forethought? If so, then it shows.

I don't really see what relevance his method of creating characters has either. The end result is what matters, and I can't say any of his characters are interesting. 

As I said before, I've already stated it is not creative. It is redundant to use the "if you do not think it is not creative then that is blasphemy". Not to mention this is relative, so yeah is it creative compared to what some random joe in College could do? Sure. Maybe a broken down mangaka who has no real talent? Sure. Compared to the other stories that I read? No, Bleach isn't unique. 




> For example, in Naruto Sakura-Hinata-Ino-Karin etc. all look same to me.


 That is because Naruto is not well drawn. But who really cares? That's like me saying someone is a good free throw shooter because they have a higher FT% than Shaq. It is relative. Naruto isn't a good manga and it is not all that creative. It is still more creative than bleach because I find that their world is much more thought out and the powers and fights are for the most part more abstract. 



> They are undeveloped Kunoichi who worth shit.. maybe Karin is somewhat more relevant with biting thing but that's the generic kunoichi in manga. Bleach doesn't have such thing. Rukia, Orihime, or the ones in SS are all unique. That's why they are interesting.


 Why are you only comparing the woman with the woman? What use is separating their sex. And Naruto has terrible character development, so it doesn't say much that you would have to resort to comparing Bleach to it. 



> I agree about art, although character designs are top tier I find Kubo's stubborness to draw backgrounds disappointing. But it's his manga, at least it's not like HxH. I got accustomed to it. And actually enjoying those eye shots, or foot now as it may sound disturbing O.O



I can't say I like the way most of his characters look either. Most of the Arrancar look like morons. All of his big muscular characters like Yammy and that Arrancar that showed his pubic hairs for no reason look lame. I find any woman character that is drawn with huge tits for no reason to be extremely tacky. His "normal" looking characters all look like super models, and because of that they often come off as looking similar. The thing that makes Bleach really boring visually to me, more so than all of that and its lack of backgrounds are its costume design. Everyone wears either the same uniform or has the same fashion sense.


----------



## Bluebeard (Jul 29, 2011)

Firefist said:


> *fusen is pretty standard, buu used something similar.*
> the other two are more special but how often were they used? once?



I'll give you that. 

They aren't used often, only if they fit the occassion. But still, my point stands, Luffy has plenty of creative technqiues (even if they all aren't used frequently) to pull out of his ass. I'm including the Gears in this too.


----------



## Sasaki Kojirō (Jul 29, 2011)

Akira, Vagabond, Houshin Engi, Shin Angyo Onshi, Rurouni Kenshin, FMA, Dragon Ball etc, are light years better than One Piece.


----------



## YogaBallsofFire (Jul 29, 2011)

I would read Tower of God before I'd read One Piece. Any day of the year.

I liked Psyren much more than OP when it was running.

It's a sports shounen, so I doubt this is relevant to the person who created the thread, but I think Area no Kishi is highly enjoyable, and I'd probably read it before OP as well. 

I know there are lots I'm forgetting, but those are off the top of my head.

edit: Nausicaa of the Valley of the Wind (old school, but it' still relevant)

Yu Yu Hakusho (ditto)

lmao just realized this was necro'd...like big time. two year gap between posts...


----------



## Dream Brother (Jul 29, 2011)

p-lou said:


> oh i understand.  it never seemed like it'd be your thing, but i always hope that the things i enjoy are enjoyed by people i like and share common tastes with.
> 
> but i love it for the light-heartedness.  it's overly goofy, filled with energy and overly romantic.  it's almost pure escapism for me.  i think we share pretty similar tastes, but one thing that draws me to comics in general is how unique of a story telling medium they are.  there are things that make total sense in a comic, or that can be very effective in a comic that would fail miserably in a novel or film.  as much as i like stories like real or monster, i think they are stories that could translate well to prose or film or a stage play.  i like stories and ideas that can only be done through a comic, and i think one piece embraces its comic status well.
> 
> i get not being emotionally gripped by one piece.  it isn't that i think it's emotionally flat, but rather emotionally familiar.  it's straight forward thematically and all the emotional highs and lows are things people have seen and felt before, but still effective (mostly).  as a musical analogy, i'd liken one piece to a simple major triad played with one hand on a piano, where something like town of evening calm would be like dominant thirteenth played by a full orchestra: much fuller, deeper, and complex.



I getcha. Even I can't feast on heavy material all the time, haha. Sometimes I just need something light and escapist to sort of relax into and settle my mind. (And there are also times when something is actually too much for me -- _Freesia_, for example, is interesting but horrifying at many points, and not something I'm going to read again.) 

I agree that there are definitely things in various works that wouldn't able to transition well between the comic boundary and other mediums...which is why the obsession with adaptations for literally everything in this world annoys me sometimes, but ah well. 

Your comparison between _One Piece_ and _Town of Evening Calm_ sounds spot on.


----------



## Mook Mook the Bushman (Jul 30, 2011)

ping pongs the best so suck it fuckshits


----------



## NeoKurama (Jul 30, 2011)

Yu Yu Hakusho and Samurai Deeper Kyo.


----------



## Arinna (Jul 30, 2011)

Personally I never really liked One Piece, tried reading it til vol 11 (cuz it's available from the library) but never had the will to continue since then....

So to me, most of the mangas which I actually read beyond volume 15 are better than OP, namely Naruto, Shaman King, Rurouni Kenshin, xxxHolic,  Inuyasha, Ranma 1/2, GTO, Doraemon, Detective Conan, Bakuman, Death Note...man I could go on and on...


----------



## Xion (Jul 30, 2011)

Berserk is better. But it's a seinen. I know of no better shounen.


----------



## Samavarti (Jul 30, 2011)

There are plenty of mangas that i consider better than One Piece, but just taking on account the shounen ones, i would say that Kekkaishi, FMA, GTO, Battle Angel Alita, Hunter x Hunter, Hoshi No Samidare and Sengoku Youko


----------



## Bluebeard (Jul 30, 2011)

^^

JJBA is one of the Shonen that are better then One Piece. 

FMA too.


----------



## Xion (Jul 30, 2011)

Samavarti said:


> There are plenty of mangas that i consider better than One Piece, but just taking on account the shounen ones, i would say that Kekkaishi, FMA, GTO, Battle Angel Alita, Hunter x Hunter, Hoshi No Samidare and Sengoku Youko



HxH is the best always on hiatus manga that isn't a seinen. I'll give it that.


----------



## Bluebeard (Jul 30, 2011)

I keep on hearing that HunterxHunter is better or equal to One Piece... I've tried to pick it up twice, but the first arc is just boring...

I assume it gets better as it goes along? YYH was great, afterall.


----------



## Shikamaru (howtroublesome) (Jul 30, 2011)

Bluebeard said:


> I keep on hearing that HunterxHunter is better or equal to One Piece... I've tried to pick it up twice, but the first arc is just boring...
> 
> I assume it gets better as it goes along? YYH was great, afterall.



Indeed, HunterxHunter definetly picks up later in the manga, the first time I tried reading it, I ended up dropping it. But I picked it back up, and when it picks up it gets amazingly good. Just be prepared for the extreme frustration that comes with catching up to point of hiatus and not recieving a new chapter for years on end.


----------



## Syed (Jul 30, 2011)

One Piece used to be my all time favorite manga. But I started reading more manga and it's not even in my top 20 anymore. Manga like Berserk, Vinland Saga, Full Metal Alchemist, Getbackers, Battle Angel Alita, Deadman Wonderland, Jo Jo's Bizzare Adventures, Yu Yu Hakusho, Slam Dunk, Ramna 1/2, Great Teacher Onizuka, 20th Century Boys, Sun Ken Rock and many more are way better than it.


----------



## Kobe (Jul 30, 2011)

Bluebeard said:


> I keep on hearing that HunterxHunter is better or equal to One Piece... I've tried to pick it up twice, but the first arc is just boring...
> 
> I assume it gets better as it goes along? YYH was great, afterall.



try the anime & OVAs. it was quality.


----------



## Kira U. Masaki (Jul 30, 2011)

One Piece isnt even the best of the so called Shonen Trinity and thats saying a lot. Ive always thought the artwork was a little on the weak side; plus oda continuously gets rid of the only elements in the story that I like (Ace -what a badass), plus there are whole arcs here like thriller bark which I think are just unreadable and boring 

Just shonen alone though I would put Houshin Engi, Hunter X Hunter, and ID near the top ( I realize ID is a manwha but it would probably fit in the shonen category)


----------



## Bluebeard (Jul 30, 2011)

Kobe said:


> try the anime & OVAs. it was quality.



I think I will. 

Just going to ignore Kira's post.


----------



## Cromer (Jul 30, 2011)

In this day and age, not reading Vinland Saga should be a crime.


----------



## God Movement (Jul 30, 2011)

Kira U. Masaki said:


> *One Piece isnt even the best of the so called Shonen Trinity and thats saying a lot.* Ive always thought the artwork was a little on the weak side; plus oda continuously gets rid of the only elements in the story that I like (Ace -what a badass), plus there are whole arcs here like thriller bark which I think are just unreadable and boring
> 
> Just shonen alone though I would put Houshin Engi, Hunter X Hunter, and ID near the top ( I realize ID is a manwha but it would probably fit in the shonen category)



       .


----------



## Wolfgang Grimmer (Jul 30, 2011)

Bluebeard said:


> I think I will.
> 
> Just going to ignore Kira's post.


>Watch Anime & OVA's
>Continue in manga
>Re-read manga from the beginning


----------



## Thor (Jul 30, 2011)

Naruto is a great manga. As is Fairy Tail.


----------



## Bluebeard (Jul 30, 2011)

Fairy Tail is also great.


----------



## Santoryu (Jul 30, 2011)

Kira U. Masaki said:


> One Piece isnt even the best of the so called Shonen Trinity and thats saying a lot. Ive always thought the artwork was a little on the weak side; plus oda continuously gets rid of the only elements in the story that I like (Ace -what a badass), plus there are whole arcs here like thriller bark which I think are just unreadable and boring
> 
> Just shonen alone though I would put Houshin Engi, Hunter X Hunter, and ID near the top ( I realize ID is a manwha but it would probably fit in the shonen category)



The artwork is unique actually. Sure it takes a while to get used to....however, I think the artwork is pretty impressive. Well, OP still has a lot of great characters. (Zoro/Mihawk/Crocodile/Skoker/Shanks etc) Also, all the big 3 have bad arcs at one point or another.

One piece has stood the test of time


----------



## Wuzzman (Jul 30, 2011)

Not really, i haven't liked it since thriller bark...


----------



## Thor (Jul 30, 2011)

One Piece's latest arc has been utter shit and unreadable.


----------



## Bluebeard (Jul 30, 2011)

Fishman Island arc is decent, not Oda's best, but unreadable? Hell no.


----------



## Destin (Jul 30, 2011)

So many people wanted to see this place too.  Maybe it would have been different if it wasn't for the setting for the first arc after a time skip, which generally aren't the most difficult of places.


----------



## p-lou (Jul 30, 2011)

The Situation said:


> ping pongs the best so suck it fuckshits



not even the best matsumoto manga


----------



## Wuzzman (Jul 30, 2011)

I would say that one piece went downhill when luffy was getting the chosen one vibes.


----------



## Edward Newgate (Jul 30, 2011)

Wuzzman said:


> I would say that one piece went downhill when luffy was getting the chosen one vibes.


Atleast it's not as bad as Jesus Uzumaki.


----------



## Wuzzman (Jul 30, 2011)

Just slower. One Piece best arcs was when it was about the straw hat crew or cool villains. The last few arcs had none, its all wind up for luffy messianic beat down of the final big bad. Even the fishman arc is just set up for "messiah luffy saving you from your sins, one gum gum at a time."


----------



## Bluebeard (Jul 30, 2011)

Wuzzman 

Luffy being a messiah.


----------



## Wuzzman (Jul 30, 2011)

please - "LUFFY CAME TO SAVE US" all 50 mashed together voice boxes shout in unison. Read your manga before you bother to argue.


----------



## Mook Mook the Bushman (Jul 30, 2011)

p-lou said:


> not even the best matsumoto manga


nuh uh its the best

and I refuse to be told otherwise


----------



## p-lou (Jul 30, 2011)

The Situation said:


> nuh uh its the best
> 
> and I refuse to be told otherwise


----------



## Bluebeard (Jul 30, 2011)

Wuzzman said:


> please - "LUFFY CAME TO SAVE US" all 50 mashed together voice boxes shout in unison. Read your manga before you bother to argue.



...

I actually do read One Piece, it's obvious though that you're trolling or just have the reading comprehension of a five-year old. 

The Fishman are not asking Luffy to save them, they're asking whether he is a good guy or not since it was prophesized that he would destroy the island. He's also their last hope since the princes are beaten and so is the king.


----------



## Mook Mook the Bushman (Jul 30, 2011)

no there arent any left!


----------



## Goobtachi (Jul 30, 2011)

Kira U. Masaki said:


> One Piece isnt even the best of the so called Shonen Trinity and thats saying a lot.



You know the HST consists of OP, Naruto and Bleach right?


Naruto and Bleach

Naruto and Bleach


Naruto and Bleach


----------



## Bluebeard (Jul 30, 2011)

^

Wrong.

One Piece, Naruto, and Toriko.


----------



## luffy no haki (Jul 30, 2011)

I would go with this order

One Piece, Toriko and Naruto


----------



## p-lou (Jul 30, 2011)

The Situation said:


> no there arent any left!


----------



## Kira U. Masaki (Jul 30, 2011)

If toriko is considered part of the 3 then its definitely better than one piece. It also has a unique art style but far more pleasing to the eye. One piece looks like a bunch of caricature rejects loitering about the place. 

And despite the hate, I think Naruto, not bleach (bleach died after the soul society arc), is still over all better. Yes it has stretches that are awful but so does one piece, the difference is when naruto actually makes me care about a chapter they are really good, while the high points in one piece are meh.

And luffy is as much a saviour character as naruto is. He just a lot more willing to fight first, then to talk. But he is the one who will be "King", he is the one everyone is always crying to save them, the big bad luffy who waltzes into a place and saves the day. 

That said though I do like luffy, I would honestly like him a lot more if oda hadnt screwed him with that lame rubber fruit, and then tried to compensate with the worst plot no jutsu ability of all time, worse than naruto's speeches; haki. Haki is face palm is what it is. 

@zoro, while i will admit i like a lot of the characters you mentioned; half of them have been barely shown in the manga at all  or have not shown up recently (crocodile/mihawk/shanks/smoker)


----------



## NeoKurama (Jul 30, 2011)

16 pages!


----------



## p-lou (Jul 30, 2011)

all made of sweet posts like that!


----------



## Violent by Design (Jul 31, 2011)

The Situation said:


> nuh uh its the best
> 
> and I refuse to be told otherwise



nice set brah, Akira is one of the all time greats.


----------



## Z (Jul 31, 2011)

Thor said:


> One Piece's latest arc has been utter shit and unreadable.


----------



## NeoKurama (Jul 31, 2011)

He doesn't approve.


----------



## Soca (Jul 31, 2011)

Kira U. Masaki said:


> If toriko is considered part of the 3 then its definitely better than one piece. It also has a unique art style but far more pleasing to the eye. One piece looks like a bunch of caricature rejects loitering about the place.
> 
> And despite the hate, I think Naruto, not bleach (bleach died after the soul society arc), is still over all better. Yes it has stretches that are awful but so does one piece, the difference is when naruto actually makes me care about a chapter they are really good, while the high points in one piece are meh.
> 
> ...



we've barely seen it apart from the war 
and lol @ side characters not popping up when characters in naruto which you put above one piece don't get development period and get's no emotional impact from fans anytime something god or bad happens. look at the war arc right now it's utter confusion.


----------



## dream (Jul 31, 2011)

> I would honestly like him a lot more if oda hadnt screwed him with that lame rubber fruit



That rubber fruit is pretty handy and awesome.  



> Haki is face palm is what it is.



Heh.  I rather like Haki.  Only CoC is somewhat iffy but even then it is tolerable.


----------



## SAFFF (Jul 31, 2011)

Oda sucked at explaining the haki shit. Its supposed to be willpower amplified at a high level but then he had to come up with different colors that go to different people for it and shit. Now its a lame, poorly explained half-assed version of Nen.


----------



## Mist Puppet (Jul 31, 2011)

Thor said:


> One Piece's latest arc has been utter shit and unreadable.



Hey now. That honor belongs to Skypeia.


----------



## Soca (Jul 31, 2011)

S.A.F said:


> Oda sucked at explaining the haki shit. Its supposed to be willpower amplified at a high level but then he had to come up with different colors that go to different people for it and shit. Now its a lame, poorly explained half-assed version of Nen.



how is it poorly explained lol are people actually reading the story or just skimming through it

@mist puppet 
agreed there man lol


----------



## Teach (Jul 31, 2011)

Mist Puppet said:


> Hey now. That honor belongs to Skypeia.





Marcelle said:


> how is it poorly explained lol are people actually reading the story or just skimming through it
> 
> @mist puppet
> agreed there man lol



Turrible

Skypiea was great.


----------



## firefist (Jul 31, 2011)

Mist Puppet said:


> Hey now. That honor belongs to Skypeia.





Marcelle said:


> how is it poorly explained lol are people actually reading the story or just skimming through it
> 
> @mist puppet
> agreed there man lol



you idiots.


----------



## Soca (Jul 31, 2011)

hush you


----------



## Wolfgang Grimmer (Jul 31, 2011)

Shohoku vs Sannoh > all of OP arcs


----------



## Kobe (Jul 31, 2011)

​


----------



## Eisenheim (Jul 31, 2011)

This kind of threads surely generate a lot of post.


----------



## firefist (Jul 31, 2011)

Kirihara said:


> Shohoku vs Sannoh > all of OP arcs



comparing a sports shonen to an adventure shonen.

sigh.


----------



## God Movement (Jul 31, 2011)

typical kirahara


----------



## Kobe (Jul 31, 2011)

Firefist said:


> comparing a sports shonen to an adventure shonen.
> 
> sigh.



Slam Dunk is Sakuragi's adventures as a baskettoman 



   Inoue-sama   ​


----------



## Wolfgang Grimmer (Jul 31, 2011)

What's your point


God Movement said:


> typical kirahara


Butthurt


> *One Piece is probably the best manga I've read.  What mangas are better?*


----------



## firefist (Jul 31, 2011)

that a sports manga uses different story and plot elements, sets them up differently and has a much different operation basis to keep the story going than an adventure manga.


----------



## Wolfgang Grimmer (Jul 31, 2011)

Irrelevant.
Fact is I enjoyed one arc of Slam Dunk more than One Piece and I enjoy JJBA more than Slam Dunk


----------



## firefist (Jul 31, 2011)

no, its not irrelevant.

enjoyement =/= quality.

you enjoy it? cool. dont use that as foundation for rating manga.


----------



## Wolfgang Grimmer (Jul 31, 2011)

I've finished Slam Dunk
I am up to date with OP
I like Slam Dunk more


----------



## Kobe (Jul 31, 2011)

Firefist said:


> no, its not irrelevant.
> 
> enjoyement =/= quality.
> 
> you enjoy it? cool. dont use that as foundation for rating manga.



you actually agree with him, why are you arguing with him now


----------



## firefist (Jul 31, 2011)

Kirihara said:


> I've finished Slam Dunk
> I am up to date with OP
> I like Slam Dunk more


all three sentences had the word "I" in it.


Kobe said:


> you actually agree with him, why are you arguing with him now



because he's acting stupid.

you dont go into a sportstore and compare a handeggamerican football with a basketball.


----------



## Wolfgang Grimmer (Jul 31, 2011)

lol what a terrible analogy


----------



## ShiggyDiggyDoo (Jul 31, 2011)

Katekyo Hitman Reborn, Bastard!!, Saint Seiya, and Jojo's Bizarre Adventure are better of course.



Thor said:


> One Piece's latest arc has been utter shit and unreadable.



I don't have an raging hard on for One Piece like a few people in Narutoforum does, but to call it unreadable is pretty harsh.


----------



## Eisenheim (Jul 31, 2011)

Oh boy here we go again.


----------



## firefist (Jul 31, 2011)

Kirihara said:


> lol what a terrible analogy



yes, its farfetched, but thats the nature of analogies that aim to make you realise your idiocy.


----------



## Wolfgang Grimmer (Jul 31, 2011)

lol                                  .
preferring one manga over another is automatically labelled as idiocy


----------



## firefist (Jul 31, 2011)

no, but your reading comprehension comes close to it.

once again, if you enjoy a manga more than another, its your deal.

but comparing different arcs of different mangas from different genres is foolish.


----------



## Wolfgang Grimmer (Jul 31, 2011)

Firefist said:


> no, but your reading comprehension comes close to it.
> 
> once again, if you enjoy a manga more than another, its your deal.
> 
> but *comparing different arcs of different mangas from different genres is foolish.*


Maybe so but I'm just saying I enjoyed Shohoku vs Sannoh arc more than all of OP arcs combined


----------



## firefist (Jul 31, 2011)

k, if that's your opinion, than it's your opinion, man.


----------



## God Movement (Jul 31, 2011)

Kirihara said:


> Butthurt



about? I just think you're an idiot


----------



## Velocity (Jul 31, 2011)

I'd suggest reading Shin Angyo Onshi. It's 75 chapters of pure awesomeness.


----------



## dream (Jul 31, 2011)

Kirihara said:


> Maybe so but I'm just saying I enjoyed Shohoku vs Sannoh arc more than all of OP arcs combined



That was a wonderful arc, probably my favorite shonen arc.  Those last few seconds of the match...simply perfect.   

I need to re-read it.

And I agree with Winny, SAO is magnificent.


----------



## Velocity (Jul 31, 2011)

Eternal Fail said:


> And I agree with Winny, SAO is magnificent.



Ajitae... Best antagonist ever?


----------



## KLoWn (Jul 31, 2011)




----------



## Wolfgang Grimmer (Jul 31, 2011)

God Movement said:


> about? I just think you're an idiot





Eternal Fail said:


> *That was a wonderful arc*, probably my favorite shonen arc.  Those last few seconds of the match...simply perfect.
> 
> I need to re-read it.
> 
> And I agree with Winny, SAO is magnificent.


so         true.


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## dream (Jul 31, 2011)

Winny said:


> Ajitae... Best antagonist ever?



I don't know about best but he certainly was amazing throughout the entire manga, probably my fifth or fourth favorite manga villain.


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## Velocity (Jul 31, 2011)

Eternal Fail said:


> I don't know about best but he certainly was amazing throughout the entire manga, probably my fifth or fourth favorite manga villain.



Perhaps not the best, but certainly one of the most successful.


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## Fran (Jul 31, 2011)

Didn't care about AjiTae until he killed all the Hwalbindang. Then he fucked Munsu over hard.

Ah. That scene where Munsu says he doesn't love what's-her-name infront of the Queen. That hurt.


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## Fran (Jul 31, 2011)

Also To-Love-Ru is super interesting.


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## dream (Jul 31, 2011)

> Ah. That scene where Munsu says he doesn't love what's-her-name infront of the Queen. That hurt.


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## Jon Snow (Jul 31, 2011)

Hunter x Hunter


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## Velocity (Jul 31, 2011)

The main reason I love Shin Angyo Onshi is that it completely throws most things on their head. The main character is a cynical wanker for the most part and he relies entirely on Sando in most fights until near the end. It starts off pretty episodic, but then it really comes into its own when Ajitae starts moving.

But really, for me, what makes the series is the history. The flashback makes stuff like Bleach's Turn Back the Pendulum arc seem completely rubbish in comparison.


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## Fran (Jul 31, 2011)

I like the manwha for its intensity - in both action and emotion.


It was a great scene, one of my favourites in manga. The Queen, unable to comprehend Korean, assumes Munsu says yes, when Kye Wol Hyang asks if he loves her. And whilst the translator fumbles an answer for Munsu's rejection, Kye Wol Hyang cries.


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## Akatora (Jul 31, 2011)

Isn't it about time this thread is closed?
Or rather should have been time 2 years ago


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## Fran (Jul 31, 2011)

No we're going to wank over SAO a bit more.

Also, Part 1 Claymore (Pre-timeskip) is fucking amazing come@mebro 
Rippling Ophelia the besto


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## dream (Jul 31, 2011)

> Also, Part 1 Claymore (Pre-timeskip) is fucking amazing come@mebro
> Rippling Ophelia the besto



Teresa > Ophelia. 

But yeah it was amazing.



> No we're going to wank over SAO a bit more.



It was the first manhwa that I ever read and it just blew me away.  The art was amazing, storytelling was superb, and I had no real problems with the characterizations. 

Won Sul <3


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## Akatora (Jul 31, 2011)

how about moving it to spammage then


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## Fran (Jul 31, 2011)

Eternal Fail said:


> Teresa > Ophelia.



Clare and Teresa.


*Spoiler*: _Tomacry_ 















That was just SUPERB.


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## Violent by Design (Jul 31, 2011)

Firefist said:


> no, but your reading comprehension comes close to it.
> 
> once again, if you enjoy a manga more than another, its your deal.
> 
> but comparing different arcs of different mangas from different genres is foolish.



um...you know the point of this thread is to show your opinion to everyone? It doesn't take very abstract thinking to say that a person thinks Slam Dunk is better than One Piece, you can certainly compare two things from different genres ~_~. A story is a story.


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## Dream Brother (Jul 31, 2011)

SAO is good stuff, indeed. I must read it again someday. 

I've never tried _Claymore_, though. I guess I should give it a shot.


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## Kathutet (Jul 31, 2011)

this has probably been said a million times by now but read jjba


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## Twinsen (Jul 31, 2011)

Jon Snow said:


> Hunter x Hunter



Indeed. 




50 years ago


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## p-lou (Jul 31, 2011)

Dream Brother said:


> I've never tried _Claymore_, though. I guess I should give it a shot.



i'm not sure how much you'd like it.  the flashback stuff with teresa might be right up your alley and maybe the ophelia story line as well.  a lot of the supporting characters are pretty one note though.  there are some pretty cool and nice individual moments, but it teeters on the boring side.  i haven't read a chapter in like 2+ years so i can't speak for any of the newer stuff really.  it's pretty decent up to the time skip and certainly not a waste of time, but just don't go into it expecting much more.


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## MdB (Jul 31, 2011)

Claymore became terrible. Read it all the way to the beginning of the time-skip and you might as well drop it after that, because barely anything happens... at all.


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## Thor (Jul 31, 2011)

Dragonball is a great manga.


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## Fran (Jul 31, 2011)

Post time-skip Claymore made me rage.


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## Mizura (Jul 31, 2011)

MdB said:


> Claymore became terrible.


Oh? I still like it though, even though waiting a month for each chapter feels really long. What I really like about Claymore is how balanced it is in distributing power and screentime between the different characters. Clare doesn't monopolize Anything, she's not even the leader of the group. This is really nice after all those series with Messiahs as main characters.


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## Prince Vegeta (Jul 31, 2011)

dbz naruto, are better


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## typhoon72 (Jul 31, 2011)

I still cant get past the first chapters of Claymore...that artwork I just don't like it 

Also I guess im not a big fan of medieval stories in general. Vinland Saga is pretty good though.


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## Thor (Jul 31, 2011)

Wakattebayo said:


> dbz naruto, are better



I agree. DB is the greatest manga of all time and as of right now Naruto is better than One Piece.


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## NeoKurama (Jul 31, 2011)

Lol, I would actually prefer Naruto over OP.


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## YogaBallsofFire (Jul 31, 2011)

Eisenheim said:


> Oh boy here we go again.



Oh man  I stepped out for a second while things were still tame. Seems things took a turn towards:  

Anyway, def. I approve of the SAO reverence in the last few pages.


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## SAFFF (Jul 31, 2011)

Just buy the Part 3 volumes. The entire part is out and its cheap as hell for all of them
IMO the best shonen mangas evarzzz is FMA followed by JJBA, HXH, DB and Slam Dunk. OP is a tier below them because it has more hohum arcs than it has good.....much like Trigun, Naruto and Gintama. I'd also maybe put Kenshin and YYH on this tier as well because i didn't really like Kenshin until the Kyoto arc and I only really like the Dark Tourney and Sensui arcs in YYH. (Felt the introduction arc was meh and 3 Kings was too rushed).


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## Wuzzman (Jul 31, 2011)

Mizura said:


> Oh? I still like it though, even though waiting a month for each chapter feels really long. What I really like about Claymore is how balanced it is in distributing power and screentime between the different characters. Clare doesn't monopolize Anything, she's not even the leader of the group. This is really nice after all those series with Messiahs as main characters.



thats claymores only strength under a mountain of weaknesses post time skip.


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## Atlantic Storm (Aug 1, 2011)

_Full Metal Alchemist_ is pretty good. Probably my favourite manga of all time at the moment. It has great art and attention to detail (in later chapters, unfortunately, but the story, concept and humour should make up for it).


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## zuul (Aug 1, 2011)

Firefist said:


> comparing a sports shonen to an adventure shonen.
> 
> sigh.



Actually a sport manga will have more merits since it has to rely only on everyday stuff and still be interesting.

Also BigWind Up >* Real >> Slam Dunk >>> OP

*Except for the art of course. Inoue pawns all. It's amazing how unlike most manga everyone has a distinctive design even the girls.


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## Skill Hunter (Aug 1, 2011)

zuul said:


> Actually a sport manga will have more merits since it has to rely only on everyday stuff and still be interesting.
> 
> Also BigWind Up >* Real >> Slam Dunk >>> OP
> 
> *Except for the art of course. Inoue pawns all. It's amazing how unlike most manga everyone has a distinctive design even the girls.



Bleh, it usually loses points for me if its only about everyday stuff. I live everyday stuff IRL, it bores me to read it in a manga too. I read manga for sense of disbelief and to be taken into a world that's not possible in the real world. I'm just an escapist i guess. The real world depresses me, One Piece fixes that.


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