# Scar (FMA) runs BnHA



## Jackalinthebox (Jun 15, 2017)

Scar from the FMA manga enters BnHA. Who's the strongest he can beat?

Reactions: Creative 1


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## Dr. White (Jun 15, 2017)

Prob depends on alot of factors. Not sure anyone is surviving an accurate transmutation hit and he's a good bit faster so that doesn't help, but large AOE mcb like Bakugo, Todoriki, All Might, and Todoriki's dad could be a problem if they just blast from the beginning. So I'd say the strongest he can surely beat is probably Noumu.


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## Haro (Jun 15, 2017)

He fucks on anyone who isn't near all mights level tbh


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## Jackalinthebox (Jun 15, 2017)

What about Roy?


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## Haro (Jun 15, 2017)

Melts their eyes until lol all might and One for all gang up on him


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## Jackalinthebox (Jun 16, 2017)

Yeah, I think there was a Mustang vs All Might thread a few months back, the majority agreed All Might would win

Not even sure what Roy scales to tbh, but I know he had a couple city block level feats during the Ishvalan war


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## Haro (Jun 16, 2017)

I need to re read FMA and re look at the feats

been a minute


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## OS (Jun 16, 2017)

Tokoyami could probably beat him since i doubt his right can kill dark shadow. "13" would kill him.  Mount Lady can punt him. Bakugou can keep him away or hit him. Maybe stain can kill him. Kurogiri would just remove him from the fight as many times as he wants. Mirio can maybe kill him and possibly nejire (from what we've seen so far.) Ashido can slide around and throw acid at him but idk if she'll hit him. Kaminari can probably kill him. Midnight can maybe put him to sleep. Gran Tarino can maybe smash him. Ectoplasm too? Shigaraki is pretty fast and can maybe kill him. Dabi has his flames like todoroki. Moonfish has range. Noumuu can likely outspeed and kill him.


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## Dr. White (Jun 16, 2017)

OS said:


> Tokoyami could probably beat him since i doubt his right can kill dark shadow. "13" would kill him.  Mount Lady can punt him. Bakugou can keep him away or hit him. Maybe stain can kill him. Kurogiri would just remove him from the fight as many times as he wants. Mirio can maybe kill him and possibly nejire (from what we've seen so far.) Ashido can slide around and throw acid at him but idk if she'll hit him. Kaminari can probably kill him. Midnight can maybe put him to sleep. Gran Tarino can maybe smash him. Ectoplasm too? Shigaraki is pretty fast and can maybe kill him. Dabi has his flames like todoroki. Moonfish has range. Noumuu can likely outspeed and kill him.


Hell no


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## Jackalinthebox (Jun 16, 2017)

Haro said:


> I need to re read FMA and re look at the feats
> 
> been a minute


Anyone ever calc those craters from the end of the Ishvalan war? At least one or two had to of been done by Roy 


OS said:


> Tokoyami could probably beat him since i doubt his right can kill dark shadow. "13" would kill him.  Mount Lady can punt him. Bakugou can keep him away or hit him. Maybe stain can kill him. Kurogiri would just remove him from the fight as many times as he wants. Mirio can maybe kill him and possibly nejire (from what we've seen so far.) Ashido can slide around and throw acid at him but idk if she'll hit him. Kaminari can probably kill him. Midnight can maybe put him to sleep. Gran Tarino can maybe smash him. Ectoplasm too? Shigaraki is pretty fast and can maybe kill him. Dabi has his flames like todoroki. Moonfish has range. Noumuu can likely outspeed and kill him.


Did BnHA get an upgrade recently? If not, Scar is a few times faster than everyone


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## OS (Jun 16, 2017)

Dr. White said:


> Hell no





Jackalinthebox said:


> Did BnHA get an upgrade recently? If not, Scar is a few times faster than everyone


You're gonna have to explain


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## Haro (Jun 16, 2017)

Jackalinthebox said:


> Anyone ever calc those craters from the end of the Ishvalan war? At least one or two had to of been done by Roy



Fapsk did. but I outta recheck them

Yeah Ed also tanked a kimblee explosion with the intent to kill.

And kimblee considered roy his "equal" even when he had the stone


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## Jackalinthebox (Jun 16, 2017)

Haro said:


> Fapsk did. but I outta recheck them
> 
> Yeah Ed also tanked a kimblee explosion with the intent to kill.
> 
> And kimblee considered roy his "equal" even when he had the stone


I found the blog, only the biggest crater got calced. It was assumed Kimblee did it, which is fair I guess. The second biggest crater looks like city block level+ 

Even Roy's casual explosions created small craters vs Ed, so I doubt all the craters in Ishval were Kimblee's. Especially considering the whole "Hero of Ishval" thing


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## Dr. White (Jun 16, 2017)

Not to mention even with AOE, scar has fought both elric bro's, fought armstrong with his eart creations and took down 10 state alcemisht + iron blood alchemist iirc. Even without alchemy he's a trained soldier who could murk multiple people at once. That isn't boding for people heavily outsped and most of those people on your list being reliant on wuirks that scar can dissassemble


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## OS (Jun 16, 2017)

Dr. White said:


> You are clearly new here


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## OS (Jun 16, 2017)

Haro said:


> Using low ends doesn't exactly help your argument I hope you know that.
> 
> by this logic a pistol can kill most HXH characters


But these things have happened. He did get stabbed through with a pipe, he HAS gotten cut up. Even in the Father fight his arm is pierced by a rail.


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## Haro (Jun 16, 2017)

OS said:


> But these things have happened. He did get stabbed through with a pipe, he HAS gotten cut up. Even in the Father fight his arm is pierced by a rail.



In the final fight of akira tetsuo walks off Nuclear bombs but his normal human friend punching him in the stomache nearly makes him pass out

low ends are low ends.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Jackalinthebox (Jun 16, 2017)

Is someone arguing FMA character aren't superhuman again?

Bradley was cutting through tanks like butter & Scar could slap away his sword swings with his bare hands

Of course that's just one example of superhuman strength/durability. You also have Kimblee tanking his own explosions, Scar blocking punches from Gluttony who can easily bust holes through walls, 1 Ishvalan being equal to 10 normal human soldiers, etc etc


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## OS (Jun 16, 2017)

Haro said:


> In the final fight of akira tetsuo walks off Nuclear bombs but his normal human friend punching him in the stomache nearly makes him pass out
> 
> low ends are low ends.


They still happen. Not my fault. Manga's not written for obd logic it's written for fans to enjoy.

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## Haro (Jun 16, 2017)

OS said:


> They still happen. Not my fault. Manga's not written for obd logic it's written for fans to enjoy.



Ok so every series is now judged purely off of their low ends and no high ends will ever be allowed

good sound logic. Building level YYh dudes it is


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## Dr. White (Jun 16, 2017)

OS said:


> They still happen. Not my fault. Manga's not written for obd logic it's written for fans to enjoy.


Then why are you posting in the OBD where we use OBD rules? You're just trying to rationalize your preferred series winning here at the cost of being objective.

Reactions: Agree 4


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## OS (Jun 16, 2017)

Haro said:


> Ok so every series is now judged purely off of their low ends and no high ends will ever be allowed
> 
> good sound logic. Building level YYh dudes it is



The average human would pick something that has been consistent throughout the series. Also, people said ed tanked kimblees attack and i dont see any showing of him doing that. Unless this is somehow the first fma ed.....


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## TYPE-Rey (Jun 16, 2017)

OS said:


> The average human would pick something that has been consistent throughout the series. Also, people said ed tanked kimblees attack and i dont see any showing of him doing that. Unless this is somehow the first fma ed.....


1.Ed tanked Father's blast which is the strongest char in the series
2. Ed has been put through walls several times and came out fine without any injury 
3. He has been bitchslapped by Envy's giant form and got up like a champ.
>beeing stabbed by a pipe

Reactions: Winner 1


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## OS (Jun 16, 2017)

I'll respond to this comedy show when I'm back home cuz the obd is in some shit with these arguments.


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## Haro (Jun 16, 2017)

OS said:


> The average human would pick something that has been consistent throughout the series. Also, people said ed tanked kimblees attack and i dont see any showing of him doing that. Unless this is somehow the first fma ed.....



Except ed has shown a shit load of feats that aren't of the level of the average human.

So your point is moot.


Also he and kimblee are in a building and he levels it when inside of it. He blasts ed with the stone in hand

Reactions: Like 1


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## TYPE-Rey (Jun 16, 2017)

OS said:


> I'll respond to this comedy show when I'm back home cuz the obd is in some shit with these arguments


Don't bother, you will make a fool out of yourself even further with that shitty attitude and with those baseless arguments.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## OS (Jun 16, 2017)

Haro said:


> Except ed has shown a shit load of feats that aren't of the level of the average human.
> 
> So your point is moot.
> 
> ...


Eds not the average human I'm talking about you. 



reyatsuguy said:


> Don't bother, you will make a fool out of yourself even further with that shitty attitude and with those baseless arguments.


Someone needs to look in a mirror 


Shit this place got hella retarded since I left.


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## Haro (Jun 16, 2017)

OS said:


> Eds not the average human I'm talking about you.
> .



Well if you are arguing averages here your out numbered.

Literally no one in this thread (nor on this site) would agree with your claims here.

What you are saying is totally hypocritical and goes against what most users have mutually agreed to be a fair way to judge characters levels.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Dr. White (Jun 16, 2017)

OS said:


> I'll respond to this comedy show when I'm back home cuz the obd is in some shit with these arguments.


I'm sure you, with all you intellectual prowess, will come back in and change everyone's mind with a brilliant and objective post.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Xiammes (Jun 16, 2017)

So I just purged this argument, I'm going to lock this thread if there isn't anything constructive from this post onward.

Reactions: Winner 2


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## OS (Jun 16, 2017)

Xiammes said:


> So I just purged this argument, I'm going to lock this thread if there isn't anything constructive from this post onward.


Doing the lords work


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## Dr. White (Jun 16, 2017)

Xiammes said:


> So I just purged this argument, I'm going to lock this thread if there isn't anything constructive from this post onward.


I mean I think it's a decent thread. Barring speed/composure and skill from lower tiers, I think there could be a legit argument for All for one and All might. But then you got guys like OS making claims and not backing down from them when clearly out of pocket by OBD standards.

I'll just ignore him from now on so others may give their piece.


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## Dr. White (Jun 16, 2017)

@Xiammes Actually curious to hear your thoughts


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## Edward Nygma (Jun 17, 2017)

@OS

So, by your logic, where exactly does FMA sit stat wise? Also, what exactly counts as a valid feat to you?

Stabbed by lead pipe = valid, tanking building or city-level explosions = invalid. What exactly is the standard that leads you to this conclusion?

From my perspective, you seen to be willing to hand-wave anything that doesn't agree with your pre-determined idea of what a character's stats should be.

"This isn't DBZ" is a perfect example of this mindset. This show isn't about city/planet busting aliens, so it can't have city busters in it.

Reactions: Like 1


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## OS (Jun 17, 2017)

I still haven't seen or remember ed ranking an explosion. I also know there is a difference between a lint force and a sharp force. You can't ignore his only above average human/superhuman limitations because he apparently tanked a blast. These people say scar handled Bradley but from what I just saw he lost to a wounded Bradley if not for lol sunglight.  You're telling me scar is hypersonic but can't catch Kimble on a train.


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## Jackalinthebox (Jun 17, 2017)

Peak human FMA high tiers? The downplay


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## OS (Jun 17, 2017)

Jackalinthebox said:


> Peak human FMA high tiers? The downplay


We're talking about scar who got btfo'd by a wounded Bradley. This isn't about the sins or father.


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## Jackalinthebox (Jun 17, 2017)

OS said:


> We're talking about scar who got btfo'd by a wounded Bradley. This isn't about the sins or father.


Scar is easily superhuman, you're objectively wrong if you think otherwise


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## OS (Jun 17, 2017)

Jackalinthebox said:


> Scar is easily superhuman, you're objectively wrong if you think otherwise


I don't mind admitting he's superhuman since he has to be to fight a homonculus hand to hand. I do mind the argument that he has hypersonic+ speed.


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## Edward Nygma (Jun 17, 2017)

OS said:


> I don't mind admitting he's superhuman since he has to be to fight a homonculus hand to hand. *I do mind the argument that he has hypersonic+ speed*.


Well, he scales to Ed's bullet dodging. So, you're objectively incorrect about that too.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Jackalinthebox (Jun 17, 2017)

OS said:


> I don't mind admitting he's superhuman since he has to be to fight a homonculus hand to hand. I do mind the argument that he has hypersonic+ speed.


Bradley has a casual hypersonic feat he performed against fodder. Scar fought a much more serious Bradley, even if he was injured, & outmaneuvered him more than once. Scar was winning that fight prior to slipping on some blood

Reactions: Agree 1


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## OS (Jun 17, 2017)

Sloth said:


> Well, he scales to Ed's bullet dodging. So, you're objectively incorrect about that too.


 Where and when



Jackalinthebox said:


> Bradley has a casual hypersonic feat he performed against fodder. Scar fought a much more serious Bradley, even if he was injured, & outmaneuvered him more than once. Scar was winning that fight prior to slipping on some blood


 Bradley also has the ultimate eye which helps him tell when actions are going to happen. Also scar wasn't winning he was getting his ass kicked. Unless the manga version was different.


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## Haro (Jun 17, 2017)

OS said:


> Where and when
> 
> Bradley also has the ultimate eye which helps him tell when actions are going to happen. Also scar wasn't winning he was getting his ass kicked. Unless the manga version was different.



Ed dodged a bullet the doctor shot at him early on in the series and Al also blocked pistol fire from father to protect his asian waifu

bradly also sliced a bullet when he invaded Greeds crew.

Also Scar wasn't ever getting his ass kicked. The fight had both of them being ripped apart through out. hell in the final clash Scar blew off Bradly's arms so it wasn't one sided at all.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Jackalinthebox (Jun 17, 2017)

OS said:


> Where and when
> 
> Bradley also has the ultimate eye which helps him tell when actions are going to happen. Also scar wasn't winning he was getting his ass kicked. Unless the manga version was different.


It was different in the manga. They were completely even in cqc, then Scar began using Alchemy & almost immediately the fight started to swing in his favor. 

Before Scar slipped on some blood, he hadn't taken any damage from Bradley. Meanwhile, Scar had landed an elbow that broke a few of Bradley's ribs

Reactions: Like 1


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## OS (Jun 17, 2017)

Haro said:


> Ed dodged a bullet the doctor shot at him early on in the series and Al also blocked pistol fire from father to protect his asian waifu


That's still reaction time not speed. Only people believably that fast are the homonculus.



Haro said:


> bradly also sliced a bullet when he invaded Greeds crew.


And Bradleys ultimate eye helps with that with obviously his training.



Haro said:


> Also Scar wasn't ever getting his ass kicked. The fight had both of them being ripped apart through out. hell in the final clash Scar blew off Bradly's arms so it wasn't one sided at all.




scar getting his ass kicked by a weakened Bradley and almost gets lucky when bradley loses his sword because he coughed up blood and lucky bradley gets light in his eye allowing him to attack his arm.


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## Nighty the Mighty (Jun 17, 2017)

OS said:


> That's still reaction time not speed. Only people believably that fast are the homonculus.





dodging a bullet is both reaction time and speed

you need to be able to react to the bullet and then also move your body out of the way, if you don't have a significant level of speed you won't be able to actually dodge, just see your own death coming.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## OS (Jun 17, 2017)

Nighty the Mighty said:


> dodging a bullet is both reaction time and speed
> 
> you need to be able to react to the bullet and then also move your body out of the way, if you don't have a significant level of speed you won't be able to actually dodge, just see your own death coming.


then show me ed running at hypersonic speeds.


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## Haro (Jun 17, 2017)

OS said:


> That's still reaction time not speed. Only people believably that fast are the homonculus.
> 
> 
> And Bradleys ultimate eye helps with that with obviously his training.
> ...



Armstrong literally caught sloth the fastest one at full charge. So yeah human characters scale.

And your posting the anime. Not the manga.

both are pretty different. the only time when Bradly got the real solid upperhand on Scar is when scar lost his footing due to a slip IIRC and bradly started stabbing the fuck out of him which Scar countered quickly with  his other type of alchemy

Reactions: Like 1


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## Nighty the Mighty (Jun 17, 2017)

OS said:


> then show me ed running at hypersonic speeds.



idk anything about fma lol, however your assertion that dodging a bullet is only a reaction feat is obviously wrong.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## shade0180 (Jun 17, 2017)

OS said:


> That's still reaction time not speed. Only people believably that fast are the homonculus.
> 
> 
> And Bradleys ultimate eye helps with that with obviously his training.
> ...



using non-canon anime as proof. 2017

seriously.

Reactions: Agree 3


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## Nighty the Mighty (Jun 17, 2017)

really someone should just post this bullet dodging feat so we can judge it


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## Haro (Jun 17, 2017)

Nighty the Mighty said:


> really someone should just post this bullet dodging feat so we can judge it



Which one?


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## OS (Jun 17, 2017)

Nighty the Mighty said:


> idk anything about fma lol, however your assertion that dodging a bullet is only a reaction feat is obviously wrong.


I know it takes speed to react to it. However the implications are that people like scar and ed are fast enough to speed blitz at hypersonic speeds.


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## OS (Jun 17, 2017)

Haro said:


> Armstrong literally caught sloth the fastest one at full charge. So yeah human characters scale.


I'm gonna need to see how it happened in the manga then because in the anime he catches him to stop him from hitting olivia but also gets is too slow soon after. Not to mention regular soldiers also react to sloths speed in time.


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## Haro (Jun 17, 2017)

Well for the sake of @Nighty the Mighty 

These are the ones I could find in my short look for the bradly feat

Barry's old self dodged pistol fire


Does it again

Bradly slices pistol fire. At first I thought he just dodged 2 bullets until Vivi Showed me his omnibus scans where the sound effect said slice.

there are some more good speed feats. Sloth charging down a hallway before any solider of character (besides armstrong) could react and Alchemy sparks are called "electricity" but Vivi says the viz translations say "energy". Still it has some pretty crazy speed feats and Ed and greed blatantly dodge it.


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## Haro (Jun 17, 2017)

Not like that pistol feat matters considering Bradly slices a hail of rifle fire pretty easily


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## Jackalinthebox (Jun 17, 2017)

BoS Scar easily dodged pistol fire from just a couple feet away


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## OS (Jun 17, 2017)

So you're showing me that he has good reaction time. Something we knew he had because of his ultimate eye. However, as I've been saying, his actual speed is not hypersonic. Because if he was he'd have gotten to those group of soldiers a lot faster than those bullets got to his location.


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## Haro (Jun 17, 2017)

OS said:


> I'm gonna need to see how it happened in the manga then because in the anime he catches him to stop him from hitting olivia but also gets is too slow soon after. Not to mention regular soldiers also react to sloths speed in time.


 

mentions he can see him a bit while everyone else was blind to him


Dodges him

After that he charges again and grabs him mid charge

Reactions: Useful 2


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## OS (Jun 17, 2017)

Haro said:


> mentions he can see him a bit while everyone else was blind to him
> 
> 
> Dodges him
> ...



Yes, I saw that part. But soon after does he not also get caught off guard and do the soldiers themselves not help catch him mid movement?

EDIT: Also, i forgot the term used here but can't that not also be called something out of the normal range of what the character can do? Especially for a more dramatic effect?


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## Haro (Jun 17, 2017)

OS said:


> Yes, I saw that part. But soon after does he not also get caught off guard and do the soldiers themselves not help catch him mid movement?
> 
> EDIT: Also, i forgot the term used here but can't that not also be called something out of the normal range of what the character can do? Especially for a more dramatic effect?



They needed to pry him down which failed.

no one besides armstrong reacted to him there. And armstrong is presented as the strongest State alchemist in the series. Roy says he's scared to get on his bad side

Also


Ed tanking the blast from kimblee. We don't see much of the aftermath other then he made the building collapse deep down. It was also with the stone and done with the intent to kill considering kimblee states he thought he killed Ed

Reactions: Like 1


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## LoveLessNHK (Jun 17, 2017)

OS said:


> Yes, I saw that part. But soon after does he not also get caught off guard and do the soldiers themselves not help catch him mid movement?
> 
> EDIT: Also, i forgot the term used here but can't that not also be called something out of the normal range of what the character can do? Especially for a more dramatic effect?



Outlier is the word you're thinking of.


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## Jackalinthebox (Jun 17, 2017)

Haro said:


> armstrong is presented as the strongest State alchemist in the series. Roy says he's scared to get on his bad side


Physically or overall strongest?


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## Haro (Jun 17, 2017)

Jackalinthebox said:


> Physically or overall strongest?



feat wise he is the best we have seen

He's the only alchemist to trade blows with sloth and actually do shit to him. Roy murked Lust and Envy. Lust is a jobber at best and Envy he was blood lusted against.

Roy could waste Ed and Roy is scared of Armstrong when he gets pissed.


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## Yak (Jun 17, 2017)

Ain't Scar like a bullet timer or something by keeping up with Wrath?


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## Jackalinthebox (Jun 17, 2017)

Haro said:


> feat wise he is the best we have seen
> 
> He's the only alchemist to trade blows with sloth and actually do shit to him. Roy murked Lust and Envy. Lust is a jobber at best and Envy he was blood lusted against.
> 
> Roy could waste Ed and Roy is scared of Armstrong when he gets pissed.


BoS Scar would've low diffed Armstrong had Hawkeye not saved his ass...

& Mustang is easily the most hyped State Alchemist in the series. Flame alchemy was also called the most powerful type of alchemy 

We might need a Mustang vs Armstrong thread


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## OS (Jun 17, 2017)

Haro said:


> They needed to pry him down which failed.
> 
> no one besides armstrong reacted to him there. And armstrong is presented as the strongest State alchemist in the series. Roy says he's scared to get on his bad side
> 
> ...


what chapter is this

The idea that he tanks an explosion but gets impaled by a pipe is absurd. Ed is only human.


EDIT: This is what I meant when I had said this is not DBZ. If someone were to shoot edward he'd be shot. A homonculus would lose a life over this. This is either kimblee blowing up the area but not ed or an extreme outlier.


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## Edward Nygma (Jun 17, 2017)

OS said:


> The idea that he tanks an explosion but gets impaled by a pipe is absurd. Ed is only human.


Have you ever seen any work of fiction at all? This kind of inconsistency is a regular occurrence.

Krillin (DBS) just got shot with a pistol a few weeks back. Dude gets rekt by a bullet *after* he survives a serious punch from base Goku; little dude went flying for miles.



OS said:


> So you're showing me that he has good reaction time. Something we knew he had because of his ultimate eye. However, as I've been saying, his actual speed is not hypersonic.


**


If the character has to *move* any part of their body X distance over Y amount of time, then it is a *speed* feat (speed = distance / time). Dodging or cutting bullets would require the character to either move themselves out of, or their blade into, the path of a Mach 1 bullet. 

Moving into or out of the path of a bullet, assuming it was fired at close quarters, is almost always going to yield > Mach 5 results.

Reactions: Winner 4


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## Dr. White (Jun 17, 2017)

@iwandesu didn't you help with the fma feats


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## TYPE-Rey (Jun 17, 2017)

Jackalinthebox said:


> We might need a Mustang vs Armstrong thread


Eos Roy would wreck him.. He can basicaly do all that Ed and All can do + Flame Alchemy. Doesen't get any better than that unless you have a PS or if you are one ...


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## TYPE-Rey (Jun 17, 2017)

OS said:


> The idea that he tanks an explosion but gets impaled by a pipe is absurd. Ed is only human.


And the fact that Ed got kicked through walls, survived a blast from the most powerfull character in the series, got slapped around by Envy's giant form still equates to normal human to you ?
No to mention that he reacted to manchine gun fire in the first chapter and he can punch down trees and walls...

Reactions: Useful 1


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## Jackalinthebox (Jun 17, 2017)

reyatsuguy said:


> Eos Roy would wreck him.. He can basicaly do all that Ed and All can do + Flame Alchemy. Doesen't get any better than that unless you have a PS or if you are one ...


I think BoS Roy beats him too. Flame Alchemy is too op, there's a reason the Humonculi were always so wary of him


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## TYPE-Rey (Jun 17, 2017)

Jackalinthebox said:


> I think BoS Roy beats him too. Flame Alchemy is too op, there's a reason the Humonculi were always so wary of him


Maybe, i mean he never went all out like he did in Ishval ...


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## Jackalinthebox (Jun 17, 2017)

reyatsuguy said:


> Maybe, i mean he never went all out like he did in Ishval ...


He gotten stronger since then too, there's a scene at the end of the war where Mustang says he's finally mastering Flame Alchemy 

I just don't see anything that would put Armstrong above Roy, while I can think of a few things that paint the latter as being the stronger of the two


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## OS (Jun 17, 2017)

People keep not understanding the difference between movement speed and reaction speed.

in bnha we have a feat showing that all might traveled at arguably supersonic speeds (unless the quick math i did is way off).



No one here has shown anyone in fma doing anything similar. Especially as we see bradley, while dodging bullets, clearly not moving at hypersonic speed.


EDIT: I say supersonic because AFO said since the time he sent them. So all might didn't leave immediately at 30 seconds because he was doing other things at that time.


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## shade0180 (Jun 17, 2017)

OS said:


> I say supersonic because AFO said since the time he sent them. So all might didn't leave immediately at 30 seconds because he was doing other things at that time.




if it took him 1 sec to travel that distance it would be mach 14
if it took him 2 sec to travel that distance it would be mach 7
if it took him 3 sec to travel that distance it would be mach 4
if it took him 4 sec to travel that distance it would be mach 3
if it took him 5 sec to travel that distance it would be mach 2.9
if it took him 6 sec to travel that distance it would be mach 2.4
if it took him 7 sec to travel that distance it would be mach 2
if it took him 8 sec to travel that distance it would be mach 1.8
if it took him 9 sec to travel that distance it would be mach 1.6
if it took him 10 sec to travel that distanc it would be mach 1..4

 OS here are the numbers for you. either way it definitely is well into supersonic and up to hypersonic. also everyone would be pretty sure agree that he would have a longer time fighting multiple Noumu than running that 5km too.

Reactions: Useful 1


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## OS (Jun 17, 2017)

shade0180 said:


> if it took him 1 sec to travel that distance it would be mach 14
> if it took him 2 sec to travel that distance it would be mach 7
> if it took him 3 sec to travel that distance it would be mach 4
> if it took him 4 sec to travel that distance it would be mach 3
> ...


but my point is still the same. We have seen him do it multiple times and have the basic math given to us that he can and has traveled about supersonic. The same can not be said for FMA characters besides maybe the sins and ofc sloth being the fastest but that seemed clear that he was actually going that fast.


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## Haro (Jun 17, 2017)

Dr. White said:


> @iwandesu didn't you help with the fma feats



I did and Im right here...

>When sempai doesn't notice you


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## Haro (Jun 17, 2017)

reyatsuguy said:


> Eos Roy would wreck him.. He can basicaly do all that Ed and All can do + Flame Alchemy. Doesen't get any better than that unless you have a PS or if you are one ...



Hoenhime and Fathers abilities are way better tbh


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## TYPE-Rey (Jun 17, 2017)

Haro said:


> Hoenhime and Fathers abilities are way better tbh


I know , but Hohenheim is a living PS and Father is a homunculus and a part of Truth. I was speaking from a human alchemist point of view


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## Haro (Jun 17, 2017)

reyatsuguy said:


> I know , but Hohenheim is a living PS and Father is a homunculus and a part of Truth. I was speaking from a human alchemist point of view



Even then armstrong is called "the heavy weapon" for the SA.

But idk if that just means he's better for taking out big dudes then roy is. Doesn't put him above roy with that statement


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## Dr. White (Jun 17, 2017)

Haro said:


> I did and Im right here...
> 
> >When sempai doesn't notice you


Sorry bud 

Weren't there more explicit scans of bradley dodging rifle fire? And what was the result again? Like mach 13 or something? Wasn't ed's dodging only like mach 6?


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## TYPE-Rey (Jun 17, 2017)

Dr. White said:


> Sorry bud
> 
> Weren't there more explicit scans of bradley dodging rifle fire? And what was the result again? Like mach 13 or something? Wasn't ed's dodging only like mach 6?


Why not use the anime ? It's the exact same scene..nothing is changed or added iirc


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## Dr. White (Jun 17, 2017)

OS said:


> People keep not understanding the difference between movement speed and reaction speed.
> 
> in bnha we have a feat showing that all might traveled at arguably supersonic speeds (unless the quick math i did is way off).
> 
> ...


Reaction speed and combat speed go hand in hand. It's about short term movement relevant to combat like seinging a sword moving 10 ft in a quick time period, etc. you're confusing this with travel speed which is keeping large speeds up over a vast distance as a meams of travel. 

Fma has hypersonic+reactions and combat speed, they don't really need travel speed though.


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## Haro (Jun 17, 2017)

Dr. White said:


> Sorry bud
> 
> Weren't there more explicit scans of bradley dodging rifle fire? And what was the result again? Like mach 13 or something? Wasn't ed's dodging only like mach 6?



Him slashing his sword and moving so quick that no solider could comprehend him got mach 13

him dancing around rifle fire got mach 2-3

Reactions: Like 2


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## Haro (Jun 17, 2017)

reyatsuguy said:


> Why not use the anime ? It's the exact same scene..nothing is changed or added iirc



It is different tbh

Also there is a really good feat of him dodging a tank shell then right after dashing up like 10 meters to kill a bunch of soldiers before they knew he was there


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## OS (Jun 17, 2017)

They don't have that combat speed either though

Reactions: Disagree 6


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## Haro (Jun 17, 2017)

OS said:


> They don't have that combat speed either though



The manga itself contradicts that point

Reactions: Agree 1


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## OS (Jun 17, 2017)

Haro said:


> The manga itself contradicts that point


We saw bradley running up to a tank and soldiers and being aimed at.


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## TYPE-Rey (Jun 17, 2017)

He also blitzed the shit out of Lan Fan when he injured her arm. She had the upper ground and there were like 70 meters between them. She never saw it coming..so yeah

Reactions: Like 1


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## MysticBlade (Jun 17, 2017)

expecting BnHA to win battles with most fictional series


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## shade0180 (Jun 17, 2017)

MysticBlade said:


> expecting BnHA to win battles with most fictional series



not really most fiction.

But seriously FMA isn't really out of their league. truth be told the speed of both verse isn't even fast enough to blitz one or the other.

pretty sure FMA isn't even in the range of mach 100 as far as I recall probably in the same range as BnHA. which is at most

lower end two digit mach.

 strength wise father is the only one totally out of everyone's league here and that includes the FMA cast themselves.. I mean FMA's strongest is town level. and Bnha is what MCB/small town level which should be close enough to each other to get a decent fight

I'm not even sure why this has turn into a speed debate at this point when both verses should be close to each other in stats.


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## Jackalinthebox (Jun 17, 2017)

shade0180 said:


> not really most fiction.
> 
> But seriously FMA isn't really out of their league. truth be told the speed of both verse isn't even fast enough to blitz one or the other.
> 
> ...


FMA high tiers should be a few times faster than anyone in BnHA, not enough to blitz by any means, but still a decent advantage

The speed discussion started because someone kept trying to claim everyone in FMA that isn't a humonculis, tops out at only peak human physical stats


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## TYPE-Rey (Jun 17, 2017)

shade0180 said:


> not really most fiction.
> 
> But seriously FMA isn't really out of their league. truth be told the speed of both verse isn't even fast enough to blitz one or the other.
> 
> ...


To be fair ...Fma got kinda screwed because the mangaka decided not to give any kind of feat to the two most powerfull characters by far( Full powered God Father and Truth)
Even so i really don't see how someone would beat Truth since He/It is present in pretty much any human and in the planet itself..not to mention you have to have alchemy or some  kind of dimension traveling power to get to him and the Gate.


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## Edward Nygma (Jun 17, 2017)

OS said:


> They don't have that combat speed either though





OS said:


> We saw bradley running up to a tank and soldiers and being aimed at.


Dude. You have been shown multiple scans of characters *moving* around bullets in mid-flight. This is hypersonic *movement speed*. Get the fuck over it.

Reactions: Agree 3


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## Mr. Black Leg (Jun 17, 2017)

Haro said:


> Roy says he's scared to get on his bad side



Seriously ? I don't remember such thing in FMA except for maybe joking Roy, but serious Roy saying " I wouldn't like to see Armstrong pissed " ? Cause I'm pretty sure Roy was always portrayed by both the manga and by the alchemists as the best there is.

Also, lol at OS, dude is just making a fool out of himself.


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## Blade (Jun 17, 2017)

Scar gets rekt by the likes of Endeavor and Stain


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## bitethedust (Jun 18, 2017)

Moral of the thread: lolOS stands the test of time.


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## Viole (Jun 18, 2017)

>stain avy
>BnHA thread

expecting anything but not wanking from such people

Reactions: Agree 1


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## ThanatoSeraph (Jun 18, 2017)

I'm seeing a lot of stuff in this thread that I feel like I've debunked at least 3 times by now just by skimming through

the number 1 highlight has to be ed "tanking a kimblee explosion" and "tanking father's attack"

and just read this thread to see why that's bullshit:


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## OneSimpleAnime (Jun 18, 2017)

ThanatoSeraph said:


> I'm seeing a lot of stuff in this thread that I feel like I've debunked at least 3 times by now just by skimming through
> 
> the number 1 highlight has to be ed "tanking a kimblee explosion" and "tanking father's attack"
> 
> and just read this thread to see why that's bullshit:


in that fucking thread you said that "it doesnt matter if its been gone over in the past" so dont try and pull up past threads (where you are proven wrong and are simply distracting from the feat) to win points in this thread.

That thread devovled into pointless bs towards the end with no conclusion anyway

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Imagine (Jun 18, 2017)

Where are BnHA characters at speed wise?


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## OS (Jun 18, 2017)

Viole1369 said:


> >stain avy
> >BnHA thread
> 
> expecting anything but not wanking from such people


Except I've said that the bnha verse is weak 

But the fma wanking is ridiculous here. No wonder this sub is dying.


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## OS (Jun 18, 2017)

Sloth said:


> Dude. You have been shown multiple scans of characters *moving* around bullets in mid-flight. This is hypersonic *movement speed*. Get the fuck over it.


I also see Bradley running at a tank at a speed where a soldier can aim at him.

Reactions: Disagree 2


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## TYPE-Rey (Jun 18, 2017)

OS said:


> I also see Bradley running at a tank at a speed where a soldier can aim at him.


Link removed
Link removed
Link removed
> Bradley
>Not having
>Combat speed


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## OS (Jun 18, 2017)

reyatsuguy said:


> > Bradley
> >Not having
> >Combat speed


those images don't work.

Also, I don't doubt he has combat speed. But you're sniffing glue if you think anyone with logic will accept he moves at hypersonic or mhs speeds.


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## TYPE-Rey (Jun 18, 2017)

OS said:


> those images don't work


God damn it .. i tried like 4 sites and still can't find one that works


OS said:


> mhs speeds


Wow.. nobody said anytghing about mhs speeds..that's far away from FMA


OS said:


> But you're sniffing glue if you think anyone with logic will accept he moves at hypersonic


Most people here are accepting it , we also have the calcs to prove it..so idk what to tell you


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## Blade (Jun 18, 2017)

Haro said:


> Nah



i am not in the mood of reading 6 pages

elaborate though how Scar wins against the likes of Endeavor and Stain


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## OneSimpleAnime (Jun 18, 2017)

Blade said:


> i am not in the mood of reading 6 pages
> 
> elaborate though how Scar wins against the likes of Endeavor and Stain


he scales to Ed taking town level explosions to the face and keeping up with Bradley so Mach 14. His deconstruction bypasses durability so one hit is all he needs

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Blade (Jun 18, 2017)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> he scales to Ed taking town level explosions to the face and keeping up with Bradley so Mach 14. His deconstruction bypasses durability so one hit is all he needs



shit

i fucking forgot that Ed had actually became quite strong in his EoS version

Reactions: Like 1


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## OS (Jun 18, 2017)

reyatsuguy said:


> we also have the calcs to prove it..so idk what to tell you


idk if you guys know this but calcs in the obd constantly change.


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## Dr. White (Jun 18, 2017)

OS said:


> idk if you guys know this but calcs in the obd constantly change.


When someone actually takes the time to go and explain how it's flawed in calculation or methodology and a dialogue ensues, not when they are just butthurt over the result or think there impression means shit to us.

Reactions: Agree 4


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## OS (Jun 18, 2017)

you know i still haven't even seen this town level explosion claim.


but i have seen ed get fucking stabbed multiple times.


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## OneSimpleAnime (Jun 18, 2017)

OS said:


> you know i still haven't even seen this town level explosion claim.
> 
> 
> but i have seen ed get fucking stabbed multiple times.


Ed got stabbed like once. what are you talking about multiple times? 

Also being stabbed by a superhuman character doesnt disprove anything anyway


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## OS (Jun 18, 2017)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> Ed got stabbed like once. what are you talking about multiple times?


stabbed by a pipe after the kimblee bomb and stabbed by a rail in the final fight


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## OneSimpleAnime (Jun 18, 2017)

OS said:


> stabbed by a pipe after the kimblee bomb and stabbed by a rail in the final fight


we dont know how the kimblee one happened and fathers explosion threw him into the second one, so theres no issue

Reactions: Agree 4


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## OS (Jun 18, 2017)

And they say I wank bnha


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## Edward Nygma (Jun 18, 2017)

OS said:


> And they say I wank bnha


Bruh, I don't get what is so hard for you to understand about the fact that the OBD doesn't run on low-ends and plot devices. Things like Ed getting stabbed, or like King "i cut fucking bullets" Bradley being seen by a scrub, are *outliers* (they work both ways, dude.).


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## ThanatoSeraph (Jun 18, 2017)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> in that fucking thread you said that "it doesnt matter if its been gone over in the past" so dont try and pull up past threads (where you are proven wrong and are simply distracting from the feat)


it doesn't matter if it's been gone over in the past if that's the only thing you appeal to, without actually presenting any arguments

here, I'm appealing to you to read the arguments that you never disproved, and not simply repeat the same bullshit when I'm not around to debunk it

if you prefer I can quote them in this thread instead of linking them, but we both know the end result's the same

and "where you are proven wrong" lmao

by the end of that thread you are legitimately the only person still arguing for any of what you're trying to push


> That thread devovled into pointless bs towards the end with no conclusion anyway


the only reason you think that is because you were completely unable to refute anything I or @Sablés  said and left the thread rather than concede

but anyway just for the hell of it here in easy dot point form is why ed "tanking" kimblee or father's attacks is bullshit

Kimblee:
-The explosion that Ed "tanked" was in no way town level, and due to the way alchemy works, you can't scale between attack strengths as if they're throwing ki blasts at each other
-We do not directly see how close Ed is to the blast
-Kimblee is under direct orders to _not_ kill Ed, so he would hardly try and hit him with the largest explosion he could make
-_the attack that he "tanked" directly incapacitated him to the point where he was bleeding out and had to be saved because he was forced onto a metal pipe by the force of being indirectly exposed to the explosion
_
Father:
-Hohenheim blocked the blast. This is made very clear visually and thematically
-If you want to try and seriously suggest that Ed tanked it, you are suggesting that Ed is more durable than Hohenheim, the walking philosopher's stone
-People are trying to claim that despite being blown away by a mere portion of Father's beam attack, Ed's durability would be scalable to the whole thing. Even assuming he tanked it to the face without Hohenheim protecting him as he clearly did, he would only have been exposed to a part of the attack.

Also link me the mach 14 calc I think I've debunked it in the past too.


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## OS (Jun 18, 2017)

Sloth said:


> Bruh, I don't get what is so hard for you to understand about the fact that the OBD doesn't run on low-ends and plot devices. Things like Ed getting stabbed, or like King "i cut fucking bullets" Bradley being seen by a scrub, are *outliers* (they work both ways, dude.).


Ed has been stabbed and hurt by minor things multiple times but apparently tanks huge explosions? And those explosions aren't the outliers?

Dandy Elegance rolling in his  bed  grave


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## ThanatoSeraph (Jun 18, 2017)

OS said:


> but apparently tanks huge explosions?


the best thing about this is that he didn't even tank the explosions they're using for examples

it's not even a case of "what is the outlier", the feats s/he's arguing for literally do not exist if you look at what's actually going on in the manga


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## Dr. White (Jun 18, 2017)

ThanatoSeraph said:


> it doesn't matter if it's been gone over in the past if that's the only thing you appeal to, without actually presenting any arguments
> 
> here, I'm appealing to you to read the arguments that you never disproved, and not simply repeat the same bullshit when I'm not around to debunk it
> 
> ...


So much wrong with this and wish i wasn't mobile.


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## ThanatoSeraph (Jun 18, 2017)

Dr. White said:


> So much wrong with this and wish i wasn't mobile.


I type on mobile all the time, and my post isn't exactly massive

Give reasons why it's actually wrong, just saying it is is meaningless deflection


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## OneSimpleAnime (Jun 18, 2017)

ThanatoSeraph said:


> it doesn't matter if it's been gone over in the past if that's the only thing you appeal to, without actually presenting any arguments
> 
> here, I'm appealing to you to read the arguments that you never disproved, and not simply repeat the same bullshit when I'm not around to debunk it
> 
> ...


Why dont you read this thread and not try to downplay?

Kimblee:
-Said that Ed was going to regret not killing him and was going to show him how its done.
-Doesnt give a shit about his orders so why would he care? He disobeyed multiple orders in the past and when push comes to shove, which it did at this point, he will kill people cause thats what he wants to do.
-Why would he not go full power when trying to kill someone? He had a better stone at that point compared to the Ishvalan war too.
-Ed was standing right in fucking front of Kimblee, like have you not seen the scene?
-The "outlier pipe" did more damage than the explosion that happened in Ed's face.

Father:
-Ed was outside Hoenhiem's cone
-Read the scene oh my god we can see that Hoenhiem's cone barely covers Izumi and she says that he barely defended "her", not the plural "us".
-Why does being a philosophers stone make someone durable again? Roy's flames roasted the homunculi the same as any person, its never said anywhere they were more durable just for having a stone. Pride was weak as shit physically and Wrath was the second strongest despite being "human" and the only thing he gained from the stone was his eye iirc.
-Kimblee has stood in the middle of his explosions and hes a joke to any fighter at close range

Edit: Also Hoenhiem was basically out of souls to heal himself at that point and took the brunt of the attack, he went out of his way to take more of the attack to protect Izumi while Ed did not

Reactions: Like 1


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## OS (Jun 18, 2017)

ThanatoSeraph said:


> the best thing about this is that he didn't even tank the explosions they're using for examples
> 
> it's not even a case of "what is the outlier", the feats s/he's arguing for literally do not exist if you look at what's actually going on in the manga


We live in a timeline where people say the human cast of fma is hypersonic  

We live in a timeline where an obd vet Is siding with OS


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## ThanatoSeraph (Jun 18, 2017)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> Why dont you read this thread and not try to downplay?
> 
> Kimblee:
> -Said that Ed was going to regret not killing him and was going to show him how its done.


It's entirely in character for Kimblee to give characters scares and act like he's going to kill them even when he has no plans to

See: the prison warden

And Kimblee tries to lecture in fights about the true way to fight and kill, even when he has no actual plans to



> -Doesnt give a shit about his orders so why would he care? He disobeyed multiple orders in the past and when push comes to shove, which it did at this point, he will kill people cause thats what he wants to do.


He didn't give a shit about being a dog of the military, but he does give a shit about what the homunculi have planned. The situations are not comparable.




> -Why would he not go full power when trying to kill someone? He had a better stone at that point compared to the Ishvalan war too.



Because he's not trying to kill him, as shown above

Because you can estimate the power of the explosion and it's nowhere near what he was doing in Ishval

Because he might not have wanted to drop a "full power blast" when he's standing in a building that is verging on collapse and doesn't want to die



> -Ed was standing right in fucking front of Kimblee, like have you not seen the scene?



So? We don't see the actual proximity of the blast itself, which is the important thing.

In some ways this could be argued as a point against you, because if Kimblee went too big he wouldn't be able to escape his own blast



> -The "outlier pipe" did more damage than the explosion that happened in Ed's face.



quick question

what do you think shrapnel is

this is the same bullshit you tried to pull in the last thread

ed was hurt by the pipe because of the force of the explosion that you're trying to claim he tanked

"see I can tank a flak grenade, it's just the _flak_ that kills me"



> Father:
> -Ed was outside Hoenhiem's cone


He wasn't, we went over this in the original thread, here have some pretty pictures and me quoting my exact arguments from that thread.



ThanatoSeraph said:


> Let's go through this, scan by scan:
> 
> 
> Ed comes to, with an expression of "what just happened" on his face
> ...



So yeah in summary

No he was not outside of Hohenheim's cone



> -Read the scene oh my god we can see that Hoenhiem's cone barely covers Izumi and she says that he barely defended "her", not the plural "us".



1) Izumi, having just been beamed along with everyone else, is somewhat disoriented

2) "me" does not preclude "us"

3) this is a fan translation, it would not surprise me at all if Izumi just said something like "ホーエンハイム...　守った", without any pronoun involved at all




> -Why does being a philosophers stone make someone durable again? Roy's flames roasted the homunculi the same as any person, its never said anywhere they were more durable just for having a stone. Pride was weak as shit physically and Wrath was the second strongest despite being "human" and the only thing he gained from the stone was his eye iirc.


There's a difference between homunculi and the monsters that Father/Hohenheim are. And Hohenheim is in fact portrayed as more durable/capable of taking attacks than everyone else.

Hence him shielding everyone at the very start of that fight, before any explosion.

Sloth is also notably more durable than most people without even taking into account regeneration, as noted by characters treating him as an inhuman monster in that regard

Also if nothing else, homunculi are portrayed with much more survivability than normal people thanks to their regeneration, and this taxed Hohenheim so much that he was basically dead



> -Kimblee has stood in the middle of his explosions and hes a joke to any fighter at close range


Sure he has. Unfortunately that's irrelevant, because it's not like he was detonating a bomb on himself. Kimblee can direct his explosions, and any example of this has a notably untouched patch of ground where Kimblee was standing. This is because Kimblee redirects the explosion to not hit him.

Also if this was the case I hope you realise this would make Kimblee, the guy who's a joke to any fighter more durable than Ed (critically injured by explosion), Al (bothered to block Kimblee's attacks with stone in the same scene you claim Kimblee was "tanking them") and others.

I'm getting a real sense of deja vu here

Also still waiting on that mach 14 bradley calc


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## ThanatoSeraph (Jun 18, 2017)

OS said:


> We live in a timeline where people say the human cast of fma is hypersonic


I mean, I'd be willing to buy edge of hypersonic Bradley. From what I remember of feats, that seems like it's within the realm of possibility at least.

Just not... with what I've been given so far.

And being in the supersonic range seems more plausible.

this is surreal for me too, i used to be the guy pushing _for_ fma, not against it


> We live in a timeline where an obd vet Is siding with OS


i like to think of it as less siding with you and more siding against them


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## Dr. White (Jun 18, 2017)

ThanatoSeraph said:


> I type on mobile all the time, and my post isn't exactly massive
> 
> Give reasons why it's actually wrong, just saying it is is meaningless deflection


I don't like to do these types of post on mobile it's a preference.

It's not a delfection as i plan on responding when i have time to sidt through your post


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## Iwandesu (Jun 18, 2017)

Dr. White t: 57041635 said:
			
		

> @iwandesu didn't you help with the fma feats


I catalogued and might have done something
But i dont remember the specifications.
I assure you


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## Haro (Jun 18, 2017)

iwandesu said:


> I catalogued and might have done something
> But i dont remember the specifications.
> I assure you



Jesus its been like 2 years since we have all been in a skype call

I miss u bb


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## OneSimpleAnime (Jun 18, 2017)

ThanatoSeraph said:


> It's entirely in character for Kimblee to give characters scares and act like he's going to kill them even when he has no plans to
> 
> See: the prison warden
> 
> ...



he willingly let Ed kill Pride, and during the confrontation in the north he chides Ed on being soft and not going for the kill, saying that it would be his downfall. What else would he mean by that, either he was going to seriously wound him (which the actual explosion failed to do) or he was going to kill him.




ThanatoSeraph said:


> Because he's not trying to kill him, as shown above
> 
> Because you can estimate the power of the explosion and it's nowhere near what he was doing in Ishval
> 
> Because he might not have wanted to drop a "full power blast" when he's standing in a building that is verging on collapse and doesn't want to die



the building collapses due to his explosion, so what point are you trying to make about not wanting to die if it falls on him?





ThanatoSeraph said:


> So? We don't see the actual proximity of the blast itself, which is the important thing.
> 
> In some ways this could be argued as a point against you, because if Kimblee went too big he wouldn't be able to escape his own blast


Kimblee can direct his blasts, they dont have to be centered on him. Ed is standing, at most, maybe 3 feet away from Kimblee when he blows the place up. We can see the angle and the blood flying from Ed's cut on Kimblee's hand in the same panel as Ed. He hadnt made any movements backwards after cutting Kimblee's hand.





ThanatoSeraph said:


> quick question
> 
> what do you think shrapnel is
> 
> ...


Flak grenades produce shrapnel from the explosions epicenter and the casing of the grande, but we see no pipes anywhere near Ed or Kimblee, they were all in the chamber below that Ed fell into due to the explosion destroying the floor.



ThanatoSeraph said:


> He wasn't, we went over this in the original thread, here have some pretty pictures and me quoting my exact arguments from that thread.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


A) i cant see any of those scans, they are blocked. B) ground damage has nothing to do with Ed being in Hoenhiem's cone when Ed taking the blast could have made his own cone and we can see that Hoenhiems cone only barely covers izumi, Ed is nowhere near it. Keep trying with that though.




ThanatoSeraph said:


> 1) Izumi, having just been beamed along with everyone else, is somewhat disoriented
> 
> 2) "me" does not preclude "us"
> 
> 3) this is a fan translation, it would not surprise me at all if Izumi just said something like "ホーエンハイム...　守った", without any pronoun involved at all


prove this and ill believe you, Izumi saying "me" and not us was clearly portraying that Hoenhiem went out of his way to protect her, not Ed.




ThanatoSeraph said:


> There's a difference between homunculi and the monsters that Father/Hohenheim are. And Hohenheim is in fact portrayed as more durable/capable of taking attacks than everyone else.
> 
> Hence him shielding everyone at the very start of that fight, before any explosion.
> 
> ...


When has Hoenhiem ever been portrayed as durable? the only attack we see him take is the beam and he got fucked up by it. Sloth is one of, if not the physically strongest of the Homunculi, him being majorly durable makes sense. Regen =/= durability and again, Pride is weak as shit physically.



ThanatoSeraph said:


> Sure he has. Unfortunately that's irrelevant, because it's not like he was detonating a bomb on himself. Kimblee can direct his explosions, and any example of this has a notably untouched patch of ground where Kimblee was standing. This is because Kimblee redirects the explosion to not hit him.
> 
> Also if this was the case I hope you realise this would make Kimblee, the guy who's a joke to any fighter more durable than Ed (critically injured by explosion), Al (bothered to block Kimblee's attacks with stone in the same scene you claim Kimblee was "tanking them") and others.
> 
> ...


IIRC theres panels of Kimblee standing in the center of an explosion crater he just created, ground caved in and everything. He would have to take at least some of the energy in that case since hes standing at ground zero.

the mach 14 bradley calc was posted earlier in the thread i think


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## Shining Force (Jun 19, 2017)

This is pretty much all-in-one FMA calc blog:

Reactions: Informative 2


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## ThanatoSeraph (Jun 19, 2017)

I don't have time to properly respond right now or within the next few days but just thought I'd drop this here



ホーエンハイムさんが... ギリギリ... 守ってくれた

"Mr. Hohenheim... just barely... protected [blank]"

there's no pronoun

she does not say "me"

Reactions: Like 2


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## Dr. White (Jun 19, 2017)

Shining Force said:


> This is pretty much all-in-one FMA calc blog:


This is the calc I was referring to and why I asked Iwan if he knew of it lol.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Dr. White (Jun 19, 2017)

He clearly tanked the blast. Like idk how it could be any clearer. And I especially don't see how one could seriosuly argue that ed didn't tank the blast in the building, not to mention he clearly can tank his own blast and got "pierced" by a rod to from scar. Piercing objects with sig force tend to do more damage than explosions themselves. Still mobile so can't respond with wuotes but OSA amd the posted blog pretty much shit on "FMa isn't hypersonic" and kimblee is clearly town level and one of the feats easily scalable to roy is 450+ tons. So even with philospher stone shenanigans es and roy should be mcb+ in dc


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Jun 19, 2017)

City block level Edward

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Dr. White (Jun 19, 2017)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> City block level Edward


Clearly don't understand what energy concentration is. Guess pre skip strawhats aren't scalable to mcb Oz busting steel because there kicks don't destroy whole portions of towns. Guess all dragonballs feats post saiyan saga that don't destroy planets are wall level. Guess passive reatsu ichigo bankai vaping a lake > pretty much every explicit feat in bleaxh bar the meteor.


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Jun 19, 2017)

Dr. White said:


> Clearly don't understand what energy concentration is. Guess pre skip strawhats aren't scalable to mcb Oz busting steel because there kicks don't destroy whole portions of towns. Guess all dragonballs feats post saiyan saga that don't destroy planets are wall level. Guess passive reatsu ichigo bankai vaping a lake > pretty much every explicit feat in bleaxh bar the meteor.



City block Ed is the same as that whole MHS mountain buster Geralt of Rivia, oversimplifying things and completely missing the context of he story in favor of fan made calcs and then thinking the calc is an irrefutable objective proof or something because "the numbers said so"

Father is the god tier, Arakawa has characters providing a barrier but that's pointless because Ed can tank his attacks without any problems.


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## OS (Jun 19, 2017)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> City block level Edward


but did you hear about the ed that can tank building destroying blasts?


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## Dr. White (Jun 19, 2017)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> City block Ed is the same as that whole MHS mountain buster Geralt of Rivia, oversimplifying things and completely missing the context of he story in favor of fan made calcs and then thinking the calc is an irrefutable objective proof or something because "the numbers said so"
> 
> Father is the god tier, Arakawa has characters providing a barrier but that's pointless because Ed can tank his attacks without any problems.


We deal in calcs. Ed took kimblees attack, and a chunk of fathers, fuck are you talking about ed's attacks?
You're making no sense.

Kimblee with stone has town level feats. He fought seriously against Ed and exploded him in a confined space and kimblee can tank his own explosions..kimblee needed the stone to be >= to roy.you are legit just using your own subjective imoression of strong you feel the gerse should be in light of blatant evidence. Go home roger

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Dr. White (Jun 19, 2017)

OS said:


> but did you hear about the ed that can tank building destroying blasts?


Yep stay in the shadows and only reply with your snide remarks cause you can't debate for shit and are bleeding butthurt over FMA being > your fav


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Jun 19, 2017)

Dr. White said:


> We deal in calcs. Ed took kimblees attack, and a chunk of fathers, fuck are you talking about ed's attacks?
> You're making no sense.



Ed didn't die because the amount of energy from the explosions that reached him was small  enough for him to survive, the side effects like the debris that hit him did solid damage.



Dr. White said:


> Kimblee with stone has town level feats. He fought seriously against Ed and exploded him in a confined space and kimblee can tank his own explosions..kimblee needed the stone to be >= to roy.you are legit just using your own subjective imoression of strong you feel the gerse should be in light of blatant evidence. Go home roger



You are missing that if he had hit Ed head on it would of kill him, if it wasn't like that the pipe that him him with a fraction of that explosion power wouldn't pierce him but ratter would make a spark like if it had hit a metal plate and be deflected.

Kimblee survives his own explosions because otherwise he couldn't even use them, this is a shonen manga and this is a trope, otherwise he's an idiot for using as an attack something that can't harm anyone.

Is Armstrong town level with his punches too? Are all the bullets in the manga town level too?


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## OS (Jun 19, 2017)

Dr. White said:


> Yep stay in the shadows and only reply with your snide remarks cause you can't debate for shit and are bleeding butthurt over FMA being > your fav


This is trump fans levels of retarded. But again, the obd has gone to shit so I'm just enjoying some of this


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## Sablés (Jun 19, 2017)

>Ed tanked Father's blast
>Despite Father being the God-tier
>Despite Ed being liable to be wounded by much less in the past
>Despite Hohenheim faring poorly against it while being  the second strongest individual

You fuckers can't even into the most basic powerscale.


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## shade0180 (Jun 19, 2017)

But seriously Ed tanking Father's attack should be an outlier.

 Even Hohenheim isn't as unscathed as ed when he took that hit and Hohenheim is definitely above ed in FMA power ranking..

there are better tanking feats for Ed though. one of them was getting blown up by Roy during their duel multiple time. We have seen him getting hit and toss around without real damage in that duel, there's also during the fight with kimblee, or the time when he took a hit from Envy who was heavier than what he looks like etc, etc.

Also Ed has been shown to take attack that are far stronger than what his body should be able to take.

as far as that pipe tearing through him either that was an outlier for the occasion or Father's attack is far stronger than what it looks like.

you guys know that event where a piece of paper could cut through a wood or some shit of that effect, which could be done in real life.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## OS (Jun 19, 2017)

shade0180 said:


> one of them was getting blown up by Roy during their duel multiple time.


that's 2003 anime


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## shade0180 (Jun 19, 2017)

OS said:


> that's 2003 anime


Pretty sure it happened in the manga or I could be wrong.


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## OS (Jun 19, 2017)

shade0180 said:


> Pretty sure it happened in the manga or I could be wrong.


googled it and i believe you are right.


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## Kurou (Jun 19, 2017)

OS said:


> This is trump fans levels of retarded. But again, the obd has gone to shit so I'm just enjoying some of this




The OBDs never even liked you so it isnt like we miss having you around


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## TYPE-Rey (Jun 19, 2017)

Sablés said:


> >Despite Father being the God-tier


That severly de-powered Father is not the God-tier. Father with 50+mil souls is a god-tier but not THE god-tier. The most powerfull being in the verse is Truth. 


Sablés said:


> >Despite Hohenheim faring poorly against it while being the second strongest individual


Hohenheim was really weakened at the point too since he used a lot of energy to protect Ed,Al and May when Father finger blasted them in his underground base back when he was at full power.


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## OS (Jun 19, 2017)

Kurou said:


> The OBDs never even liked you so it isnt like we miss having you around


Baby there's no need for us to fight you know I missed you the most


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## Haro (Jun 19, 2017)

shade0180 said:


> But seriously Ed tanking Father's attack should be an outlier.
> 
> Even Hohenheim isn't as unscathed as ed when he took that hit and Hohenheim is definitely above ed in FMA power ranking..
> 
> ...



If Ed tanking fathers blast is an outlier then so is practically every great feat for characters tanking blasts


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## OneSimpleAnime (Jun 19, 2017)

Hoenhiem took more damage cause he purposely took more of the blast to protect Izumi, Ed did not and hes one of the best fighters in the verse by EoS


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## Iwandesu (Jun 19, 2017)

Haro said:


> Jesus its been like 2 years since we have all been in a skype call
> 
> I miss u bb


University has been wrecking me 
Definitely would like to join ya guys when I get my midterm vacations (july)
Btw Scar getting town level from Ed vs Father is dubious at best.
Eos Ed for wathever reason did PUNCH the shit of father.
I agree on mcb from Kimble,tho


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## OneSimpleAnime (Jun 19, 2017)

iwandesu said:


> University has been wrecking me
> Definitely would like to join ya guys when I get my midterm vacations (july)
> Btw Scar getting town level from Ed vs Father is dubious at best.
> Eos Ed for wathever reason did PUNCH the shit of father.
> I agree on mcb from Kimble,tho


id only argue for small town-town level Ed from Father due to him also taking a blast from Kimblee as well.


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## Haro (Jun 19, 2017)

iwandesu said:


> University has been wrecking me
> Definitely would like to join ya guys when I get my midterm vacations (july)
> Btw Scar getting town level from Ed vs Father is dubious at best.
> Eos Ed for wathever reason did PUNCH the shit of father.
> I agree on mcb from Kimble,tho



He'd still get like MCB via Al and kimblee both tanking his non stone blast which was 30 tons of TNT iirc

or scaling from roy's flames amped the stone not stopping a Wrath clone while scar blew his arms off going all out.


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## shade0180 (Jun 19, 2017)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> Hoenhiem took more damage cause he purposely took more of the blast to protect Izumi, Ed did not and hes one of the best fighters in the verse by EoS




Durability doesn't just get weaker or disappear just because you are taking a hit for someone else.

 Hohenheim took a hit, Ed took a hit. Hohenheim has more damage,Ed didn't that's all there is to it. The excuse that Hohenheim is protecting Izumi to get more damage is bullshit considering he only took the same blast as Ed. which is just one explosion. He didn't take 2 or 3 explosion that would suddenly add the suppose damage to him..

No he took the same explosion as Ed he just have covered someone from said explosion.


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## Dr. White (Jun 19, 2017)

ThanatoSeraph said:


> I don't have time to properly respond right now or within the next few days but just thought I'd drop this here
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It's pretty clear both contextually and visually who she is referring to. At that point Ed is strong enough to handle himself even against threats of this caliber, and he is clearly not being protected by hohenheims cone of protection. She on the other hand was very strong but her state deteriorated hence why she needs the protection.


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## OneSimpleAnime (Jun 19, 2017)

shade0180 said:


> Durability doesn't just get weaker or disappear just because you are taking a hit for someone else.
> 
> Hohenheim took a hit, Ed took a hit. Hohenheim has more damage,Ed didn't that's all there is to it. The excuse that Hohenheim is protecting Izumi to get more damage is bullshit considering he only took the same blast as Ed. which is just one explosion. He didn't take 2 or 3 explosion that would suddenly add the suppose damage to him..
> 
> No he took the same explosion as Ed he just have covered someone from said explosion.


he exposed himself to more of the explosion, he didnt get blown away like Ed, and tried to block it to protect Izumi. Like going with the flow of a river vs trying to stand in the currents purposly


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## shade0180 (Jun 19, 2017)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> e exposed himself to more of the explosion, he didnt get blown away like Ed, and tried to block it to protect Izumi.



And that still shouldn't weaken his durability.

 So? as I said that's a freaking bullshit excuse.

The initial damage is the only important damage, What Hehenheim and Ed tank is not a frak grenade that would give them new damage if they stood in place the longer they stayed there or if it was a carpet bombing where multiple explosions happened, No. the only shit that hit them is a single explosion even if they get tossed around or if they just stood still after said explosion they will get the same amount of damage as each other considering they are standing next to each other..

the only way Ed would get lesser damage is if he is standing farther away from the explosion, making the whole shit moot either way and he isn't, he was standing next to Hohenheim.. the amount they are getting hit is still the same considering it is 1 explosion and not multiple explosion.

and it is outlier for ed to have that much difference of durability to Hohenheim a guy who has more soul than him or any guy other than father.


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## Regicide (Jun 19, 2017)

Do you guys actually _know_ how much of the blast that Ed would have actually been exposed to in the first place?


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## shade0180 (Jun 19, 2017)

Regicide said:


> Do you guys actually _know_ how much of the blast that Ed would have actually been exposed to in the first place?



If he get lesser the whole scaling would be moot so he either get the same as Hohenheim to scale which would be an outlier due to how big of the difference the damage has done to them or he took less and we scale nothing.


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## Haro (Jun 19, 2017)

Regicide said:


> Do you guys actually _know_ how much of the blast that Ed would have actually been exposed to in the first place?



Kimblee one he was literally right next to him

Fathers feat while far away he still took a good portion of that blast even from a distance.

You can clearly see his arm getting him by it.


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## Regicide (Jun 19, 2017)

Define "a good portion".


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## Imagine (Jun 19, 2017)

No


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## Haro (Jun 19, 2017)

Regicide said:


> Define "a good portion".





Imagine said:


> No




But honestly it clearly hit his arm. Its literally being flung all over the place and you can see the scars on his body from it.

He got hit by the blast.


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## Regicide (Jun 19, 2017)

I didn't ask whether he got hit or not.


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## Sablés (Jun 19, 2017)

Was it really that hard to just link the scan?

EDIT:

For Ed's position relative to the others


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## Regicide (Jun 19, 2017)

That's a start, but still doesn't give a full picture. How far away is the cast from Father prior to him attacking?

..Also, what's up with the arguments that Ed was out in the open? The ground where he's lying is fairly untouched compared to the surroundings.


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## Sablés (Jun 19, 2017)

Regicide said:


> That's a start, but still doesn't give a full picture. How far away is the cast from Father prior to him attacking?


Not even a notable few meters

That crater you see on the ground was made before the blast and that's where they all came from


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## Regicide (Jun 19, 2017)

Are there like, panels where we actually see everyone's position relative to Father, or?


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## Sablés (Jun 19, 2017)

Regicide said:


> Are there like, panels where we actually see everyone's position relative to Father, or?


look at the spoiler again , homo


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## Sablés (Jun 19, 2017)

Ed (the relevant subject here I guess) isn't in that scan that's why I didn't post it initially

He comes out of the hole at the exact time Father nukes the place.


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## Regicide (Jun 19, 2017)

Oh, there's a second page.

Whoops.


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## OS (Jun 19, 2017)

wait how does he pop out of the crater but not end up behind or back in the crater but next to the people in front?


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## Sablés (Jun 19, 2017)

OS said:


> wait how does he pop out of the crater but not end up behind or back in the crater but next to the people in front?


Fuck if I know.

I'm guessing the blast pushed everyone (maybe not Al and the girl) over the crater. In which case there's a lapse in event and its still possible for him to have been shielded.


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## OS (Jun 19, 2017)

Sablés said:


> Fuck if I know.
> 
> I'm guessing the blast pushed everyone (maybe not Al and the girl) over the crater. In which case there's a lapse in event and its still possible for him to have been shielded.


but hoenheim was there blocking the blast.


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## Sablés (Jun 19, 2017)

Not initially. Unless he made a barrier or some passive defense that protected everyone behind him. At the end of the day though, the problem is the same; there's shit axed out from the time of the blast to the aftermath.


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## Regicide (Jun 19, 2017)

Getting blown away kind of muddles things, I figure, since it suggests their level of exposure would have decreased over the course of the attack.

And it's not like our barely functioning system actually knows how to take power into account.


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## Dr. White (Jun 19, 2017)

Regicide said:


> Getting blown away kind of muddles things, I figure, since it suggests their level of exposure would have decreased over the course of the attack.
> 
> And it's not like our barely functioning system actually knows how to take power into account.


The blast is a cone of concentrated energy, anything in the radius got hit with initial energy and this blown back, only the woman was portrayed as being shielded majorly from the blast. Ed is even in a position where hohenheim standing meters ahead of him on a decline would not do much hence why he's seen being hit with the force of the attack. Not sure what the ambiguity is tbh


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## Regicide (Jun 19, 2017)

Question, do you think that an explosion expends all of its energy the instant it hits something?

I'm well aware that this attack specifically is not an explosion, but humor me for a second here.


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## Dr. White (Jun 19, 2017)

An explosion emits all the energy from the epicenter and keeps on pushing. If someone is hit by the heat/shockwave and is sent dlying they therefore absorbed said impact which in turn semt them flying. 

Father is shooting forward a blast in one direction. It is also a blast of concentrated energy than was seen both vaping and pulverizing everything in it's path. Everyone there but the woman was hit in said manner, the blast path did not change. Idk what someone absorbing the energy and being sent flying changes. 

It's like being hit bu ryu's super kamehameha and being sent flying in the direction of the blast, KN0 naruto sending shoten itachi miles with rasengan (albeit that is much more concentrated it still cratered).


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## Regicide (Jun 19, 2017)

Okay yeah I'm not bothering with this point of discussion then


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## Regicide (Jun 19, 2017)

For the record

Perfectly willing to discuss the subject with anyone that won't go on a tangent


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## Dr. White (Jun 19, 2017)

Regicide said:


> For the record
> 
> Perfectly willing to discuss the subject with anyone that won't go on a tangent


Cause I'm aupossed to know your arbitrary preference for an answer? You could simply respond to the points you see fit to respond to so i could learn what you have to say, acting like you asked me a simple one word answer question, but nope "response too long"

Cool. And people wonder why there is disconnect from old ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".)


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## Regicide (Jun 19, 2017)

I expect you to be able to make cogent points and responses. Like, this has nothing to do with oldfags vs. newfags, it's just that the matter of Father's being a cone of concentrated energy is entirely besides the original post I made about how everyone's exposure to the blast's area would have changed as they moved over the course of the attack's lifespan.

Which is a bit of a wrench in things because A) the attack is pretty clearly expending energy over the course of said lifespan, and B) we don't account for power so fuck if I know how we'd end up classifying that at the end of the day.


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## Regicide (Jun 19, 2017)

As a side note?


Regicide said:


> Question, do you think that an explosion expends all of its energy the instant it hits something?
> 
> I'm well aware that this attack specifically is not an explosion, but humor me for a second here.


Pretty certain that this question can actually indeed be answered in one word.


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## Dr. White (Jun 19, 2017)

Regicide said:


> As a side note?
> Pretty certain that this question can actually indeed be answered in one word.


Yes but you were clearly underlying a discussion of mechanics so maybe I should have thrown in the word "properly" or maybe you just stop being a pretentious dick? If you don't wanna discuss shit anymore cool but then don't come in the thread like your objectively trying to talk about stuff. Didn't know a 3 (small) paragraph summary of my thoughts was a "tangent" but ok


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## Dr. White (Jun 19, 2017)

Regicide said:


> I expect you to be able to make cogent points and responses. Like, this has nothing to do with oldfags vs. newfags, it's just that the matter of Father's being a cone of concentrated energy is entirely besides the original post I made about how everyone's exposure to the blast's area would have changed as they moved over the course of the attack's lifespan.
> 
> Which is a bit of a wrench in things because A) the attack is pretty clearly expending energy over the course of said lifespan, and B) we don't account for power so fuck if I know how we'd end up classifying that at the end of the day.


They were three points not even surpassing four sentences each split into three segments for easy reading. This post itself is slightly less words 

My point was they were consumed by the cone before being thrown, they didn't fet wiped away like a shockwave. Like we clearly see ed's arm buckling as he's stationary before being thrown by the butt end of the blast


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## Regicide (Jun 19, 2017)

Which changes what about what I said, exactly?


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## Dr. White (Jun 19, 2017)

Regicide said:


> Which changes what about what I said, exactly?


The fact everyone in the radius was exposed to a major portion of the actual energy content? The is power is completely secondary. Once again considering this attack mainly vapes as seen ny the building it touched for a couple secs at max


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## Regicide (Jun 19, 2017)

You're getting this information about everyone's position at X point during Y timeframe, where?


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## Dr. White (Jun 19, 2017)

Like even the people in the foreground we clearly see are getting blown back but also getting xrisped by theenergy content. Unless we are arguing this town level attack lost substantial energy in the dozen feet or so it took to reach hohenheim/Ed this strikes me as unreasonably hypercritical


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## Dr. White (Jun 19, 2017)

Regicide said:


> You're getting this information about everyone's position at X point during Y timeframe, where?


The scans that sable posted just minutes earlier? Do you expect me to calc their positions? The blast is literally dozens of meters long and hohenheim and ed are hit very early on. We saw via the buildings you don't have to be right in front of fathers hand to receive the brunt of damage ( what was actually calced) given how far and high away the damage is...


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## Regicide (Jun 19, 2017)

Jesus christ

I'm not talking about whether or not they received the brunt of the damage, that was never the point of noting that the attack expended its energy over the course of its lifespan or that its victims did not have static positions relative to it

All I said was that the degree of exposure each person had was not constant over the course of said lifespan, and this was a changing variable, which makes it more difficult to extract exact numbers from anything


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## Dr. White (Jun 19, 2017)

Regicide said:


> Jesus christ
> 
> I'm not talking about whether or not they received the brunt of the damage, that was never the point of noting that the attack expended its energy over the course of its lifespan or that its victims did not have static positions relative to it
> 
> All I said was that the degree of exposure each person had was not constant over the course of said lifespan, and this was a changing variable, which makes it more difficult to extract exact numbers from anything


Which is why I pointed to us seeing ed being affected im several panels before beimg thrown by the butt end of the blast and why I pointed to the logic about the far away buildings. 

I literally don't get how you are trying to void hohenheim/ed surviving the blast and ehy we have to try and dice the numbers up aimply because ed was blown back unlike his father.

Not gonna be able to respond for a while and I see you're growing tired of responsing so I'm content picking this up later at a cpu or dropping it all together if that so be your will


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## Kurou (Jun 20, 2017)

He's not trying to void anything

All he said was people might have been affected differently, but theres no actual way to know which makes it difficult to calc

It seems what you assume he's getting at is Ed didnt take much damage because he was further away or something


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## Dr. White (Jun 20, 2017)

Kurou said:


> He's not trying to void anything
> 
> All he said was people might have been affected differently, but theres no actual way to know which makes it difficult to calc
> 
> It seems what you assume he's getting at is Ed didnt take much damage because he was further away or something


But there's nothing to calc. We know how potent the blast are, we know it vaped through nearly all of the building it touched that further away than ed, we know ed was caught in the blast for signifigant time, so i don't understand how the feat doesn't apply. What are fiction gets analyzed like this? 

Like the kimblee stuff is even worse (even though i know regi hasn't spoken on that)


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## Kurou (Jun 20, 2017)

He isnt trying to invalidate the feat in question or anything, he was hoping he could possibly get some concrete numbers out of it and made a side note about with the way we currently evaluate things he couldnt have done so anyway and that even if he could they all probably had varying degrees of exposure. 

I dont see where he said anything questioning the durability for anybody affected by it but you keep bringing it up

I may be wrong though but im just saying

It seems like you believe he's attempting to downplay the feat which is why he got annoyed. But I cant speak for him so fuck it~


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## Kurou (Jun 20, 2017)

As for the match even with the speed difference the amount of fighters will slow him down a bit and last I checked theres nothing stopping hypnotism guy from just having scar deconstruct his own face


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## Roman (Jun 20, 2017)

Haro said:


> Ok so every series is now judged purely off of their low ends and no high ends will ever be allowed
> 
> good sound logic. Building level YYh dudes it is



Pillar level Yang.


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## Kurou (Jun 20, 2017)

Thats just OS

And OS being stupid is an established fact


Why you asshats even responded to him I have no idea


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## Regicide (Jun 20, 2017)

Kurou said:


> He isnt trying to invalidate the feat in question or anything, he was hoping he could possibly get some concrete numbers out of it and made a side note about with the way we currently evaluate things he couldnt have done so anyway and that even if he could they all probably had varying degrees of exposure.
> 
> I dont see where he said anything questioning the durability for anybody affected by it but you keep bringing it up
> 
> ...


Nah, this is more or less the layman's version of what I was saying

I did call things into question when it came to actually establishing what fraction of the blast anyone was actually hit (which, distressingly, no one seems to have an actual estimate for) or how no one seems to have explained why the ground Ed was lying on was intact while everywhere else was fucked despite supposedly being out in the open, but these are entirely separate points

The part about varying degrees of exposure is just a note about how I doubt we can actually get accurate and precise numbers, simply because we're lacking certain information and our shitty patchwork method doesn't work this way to begin with, so we're just left with approximations


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## Iwandesu (Jun 20, 2017)

Regicide said:


> Question, do you think that an explosion expends all of its energy the instant it hits something?
> I'm well aware that this attack specifically is not an explosion, but humor me for a second here.


Absolutely not.
The energy would take a while to impart itself 
At the same time a blast is no shockwave that gets weaker and weaker as distance pass
I don't think this particularly stops people who took the attack heads on to be scalled but we might be able to take some short of partial assuming "after the energy beam touched hoenhein the remaining part of the energy blast got spread loose and thus lost a significant part of its concentration".
A way to approach how much the energy got loose could be taking the area of the main "kamehameha" blast and then comparing to the remaining truncated cone


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## OS (Jun 20, 2017)

Kurou said:


> Thats just OS
> 
> And OS being stupid is an established fact
> 
> ...


but you know im right that it makes no sense a dude that constantly gets scarred and stabbed by regular objects but is apparently building or town level durability?


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## TYPE-Rey (Jun 20, 2017)

OS said:


> but you know im right that it makes no sense a dude that constantly gets scarred and stabbed by regular objects but is apparently building or town level durability?


Once again, this dude gets put through walls and doesen't get hurt , lives through explosions and energy blasts, gets pounded into the ground by giant monsters and gets up ... 
Why is it so hard to accept that he can deal with stuff like that ?Why do you take into account only the low-end stuff ?


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## OS (Jun 20, 2017)

reyatsuguy said:


> Once again, this dude gets put through *walls *and doesen't get hurt , lives through explosions and energy blasts,* gets pounded into the ground by giant monsters* and gets up ...


Some of these things are not like the others, some of these things just do not belong


god dammit where are my music notes


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## TYPE-Rey (Jun 20, 2017)

OS said:


> Some of these things are not like the others, some of these things just do not belong


Except they exist , they happen more than once and because of that they belong. They high-end stuff is there just like the low-end.
1.Lan Fan threw a grenade at him, it exploded, Ed survived and got up immediately.
2. Kimbley triggered an explosion that took down a big ass structure. Ed was there, he got hit by it , he survived, but he got pierced by that pipe because of the plot. These kinds of things happen in a lot of other series..it's nothing special.
3. Ed got hit by Father's blast. Wheter he got the full force of the blast or not.. it doesen't change the fact that he can take shit well above peak human level.


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## OS (Jun 20, 2017)

reyatsuguy said:


> 1.Lan Fan threw a grenade at him, it exploded, Ed survived and got up immediately.


that's a small explosion idk why this is even mentioned.



reyatsuguy said:


> 2. Kimbley triggered an explosion that took down a big ass structure. Ed was there, he got hit by it , he survived, but he got pierced by that pipe because of the plot. These kinds of things happen in a lot of other series..it's nothing special.


Did kimblee not also use an explosion on scar and it did nothing? Didn't even move him?



reyatsuguy said:


> 3. Ed got hit by Father's blast. Wheter he got the full force of the blast or not.. it doesen't change the fact that he can take shit well above peak human level.


this is the outlier.


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## TYPE-Rey (Jun 20, 2017)

OS said:


> that's a small explosion idk why this is even mentioned.


It's mentioned because even if it is on a smaller scale compared to the other explosions ..it's still above the peak human level you are trying to push.


OS said:


> Did kimblee not also use an explosion on scar and it did nothing? Didn't even move him?


I don't know what instance you are refering to..but if you to say that Kimbley's explosions suck... i can bring the Ishval examples when he blasted the shit out of Scar . Scar still survived. And against Ed he did have a stronger PS.Also Ed was in an  extremely confined space. He most likely received the total amount of energy of that blast. The explosions didn't just magically  ignore Ed or went around him while destroying that mine structure.


OS said:


> this is the outlier


Moot point.. i can say the same about Ed getting stabbed by a pipe as a low-end outlier.


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## OS (Jun 20, 2017)

reyatsuguy said:


> It's mentioned because even if it is on a smaller scale compared to the other explosions ..it's still above the peak human level you are trying to push.
> 
> I don't know what instance you are refering to..but if you to say that Kimbley's explosions suck... i can bring the Ishval examples when he blasted the shit out of Scar . Scar still survived. And against Ed he did have a stronger PS.Also Ed was in an  extremely confined space. He most likely received the total amount of energy of that blast. The explosions didn't just magically  ignore Ed or went around him while destroying that mine structure.
> 
> Moot point.. i can say the same about Ed getting stabbed by a pipe as a low-end outlier.


If ed could deal with town level or building level explosions he'd have no need to worry about gunfire or being stabbed or sliced up.

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## Kurou (Jun 20, 2017)

Stop replying to OS. He knows we dont use low end showings to discredit characters


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## TYPE-Rey (Jun 20, 2017)

OS said:


> If ed could deal with town level or building level explosions he'd have no need to worry about gunfire or being stabbed or sliced up.


Right, the same way Wonder Woman bothers to block bullets with her bracelets despite being well above town level


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## OS (Jun 20, 2017)

smh, people here will just believe that ed can tank some town level blast and it's not an outlier.


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## OS (Jun 20, 2017)

reyatsuguy said:


> Right, the same way Wonder Woman bothers to block bullets with her braces despite being well above town level


yeah it's pretty stupid.


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## B Rabbit (Jun 20, 2017)

If we went by low ends for every series than a good nyke from the USA would down the majority of fiction.


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## Regicide (Jun 20, 2017)

B Rabbit said:


> If we went by low ends for every series than a good nyke from the USA would down the majority of fiction.


Legitimately would not be surprised if this was already the case regardless.


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## shade0180 (Jun 20, 2017)

Superman would be no stronger than a peak human and almost every character with too much showing.

Now you can fuck off with your low showing and go to some other boards that revere them considering we all know how much of a bullshit low showing is.


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## Haro (Jun 20, 2017)

"We should only use low ends unless its a show I like!"


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## Adamant soul (Jun 20, 2017)

Shit with this logic DMC Dante can be pierced by regular bullets because Lady shot him in the head ONCE. This despite consistently tanking (and yes I do mean outright tanking) top tier attacks ranging from town level to fucking continent level.


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## shade0180 (Jun 20, 2017)

OS said:


> yeah it's pretty stupid.



Yea you're pretty stupid.

 I'm already bored of this game.


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## OS (Jun 20, 2017)

Haro said:


> "We should only use low ends unless its a show I like!"


I've been vocal about bnha being weak though 



shade0180 said:


> Yea you're pretty stupid.
> 
> I'm already bored of this game.


Whatever floats your boat boyo this game is just proving that obd really was a mistake


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## shade0180 (Jun 20, 2017)

OS said:


> Whatever floats your boat boyo this game is just proving that obd really was a mistake



then why are you still here.

 or maybe you are the mistake and you just want to pass it off to the OBD so that you can forget it and feel good about yourself.


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## OS (Jun 20, 2017)

shade0180 said:


> then why are you still here.
> 
> or maybe you are the mistake and you just want to pass it off to the OBD so that you can forget it and feel good about yourself.


1. passtime

2. No, it's the obd. You come around to the idea that using calcs and pitting universes against each other from series where the mangakas just try to make the suspenseful action scenes more exciting and don't care about the physics behind it.


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## shade0180 (Jun 20, 2017)

we don't care about physics most of the time.

What we use is a lot of geometry.

 shapes, angle, distance, length, height we even use pixel scaling to get those shapes to almost perfectly align with each other. And pretty sure the author do the same shit when they draw their manga... What physics are you talking about, that's just secondary information in all of this.

So you guys whining about physics basically just have no clue what works and how it works.

considering you are whining foul about the wrong shit as we can clearly see in your post.

What you think calculating a cone or cylindrical shape is physics.



do you also think just because something has spheres it is now called physics?


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## OS (Jun 20, 2017)

Guess I used the wrong word. Still doesn't disprove my point


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## Regicide (Jun 20, 2017)

You guys seem to be splitting hairs, given that what we do is undeniably super autistic regardless

Reactions: Like 1


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## shade0180 (Jun 20, 2017)

It doesn't disprove shit considering you have no point
regi I'm just bored. and I need to cook after 5 mins so whatever.


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## OS (Jun 20, 2017)

Regicide said:


> You guys seem to be splitting hairs, *given that what we do is undeniably super autistic regardless*


This is my point 

Arakawa didn't make these inconsistencies with the thought in mind that some autists on a naruto forum are going to do seem calculating by the pixels for it.


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## Dr. White (Jun 20, 2017)

Not really sure what the point is here. Authors use feats to display supernatural abilities and highlight combat aspects of their manga. Luffy smashing through layers of bedrock or yosuke leveling a plateau are their to instill the level of their combat upon n the reader. Their are rough numbers needed to accomplish these feats, regardless if the author knows or cares about them. Don't know what being "autistic" has to do with that.


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## shade0180 (Jun 20, 2017)

OS said:


> This is my point
> 
> Arakawa didn't make these inconsistencies with the thought in mind that some autists on a naruto forum are going to do seem calculating by the pixels for it.



More like you are being autistic for minding other people's hobby too much.

 When you can't even communicate properly in a forum that evaluate feats and used a method with set rules to evaluate said feat and you calling everyone that just follows the set rule autistic due to your inability to adjust to it, who do you think is being autistic?


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## OS (Jun 20, 2017)

shade0180 said:


> More like you are being autistic for minding other people's hobby .
> 
> When you can't even communicate properly in a forum with set rules and calling everyone in it autistic due to your inability to adjust to it, who do you think is being autistic?


weren't you calling people stupid?


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## shade0180 (Jun 20, 2017)

OS said:


> weren't you calling people stupid?



Nope. 

 are you a people?


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## OS (Jun 20, 2017)

shade0180 said:


> Nope.
> 
> are you a people?


you got caught


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## shade0180 (Jun 20, 2017)

OS said:


> you got caught



Got caught with what?

Are you a representation of a group?

Are there multiple user in your account that it would be associated in to a group?

 because I did say you are stupid but I didn't specify it to a group of people.

Seriously how stupid can you get that you can even mistake that a single insult to a single person would equate to me insulting a group of people.

Didn't that sound silly and stupid, right? A single insult to a single person turn into an insult to a whole group.

 seriously how dumb can you get.


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## OS (Jun 20, 2017)

You're taking this whole thing hard I see . Tell us how you really feel.


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## shade0180 (Jun 20, 2017)

okay now I'm really bored. you're not even fun to insult.


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## OS (Jun 20, 2017)

shade0180 said:


> okay now I'm really bored. you're not even fun to insult.


you're not even a good insulter


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## Jackalinthebox (Jun 21, 2017)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> Explosions don't necessarily work like that in fiction.
> 
> Look, part covered by Hohenheim has tiles, the rest is sand or smooth rock, Ed is within the covered path.
> 
> ...


Come on, you have to try harder than that


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## Regicide (Jun 21, 2017)

Dr. White said:


> That's like arguing I can stand100 yards from a 25kt bomb and take signifigantly less energy than if I was at ground zero.


This is the first I've seen this post but uhhhh, yeah, you probably would.

Doesn't mean it wouldn't be horrendously fatal regardless, but the amount of energy you'd be exposed to would be greatly diminished as opposed to a case where you were standing on top of the bomb when it detonated. What kind of comparison is this?


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## Dr. White (Jun 21, 2017)

Regicide said:


> This is the first I've seen this post but uhhhh, yeah, you probably would.
> 
> Doesn't mean it wouldn't be horrendously fatal regardless, but the amount of energy you'd be exposed to would be greatly diminished as opposed to a case where you were standing on top of the bomb when it detonated. What kind of comparison is this?


You missed some pretty key words in my post like negligible and signifigant. You telling me that someone tanking a nuke blast (25 kt) from 100 yards away isn't town level? Cause that's my point.


By this logic ulq is <<<<<<<<< his own lanza since he can't be anywhere near the outskirts of his blast. Guess hichigo doesn't get scaled either since he didn't stop lanza in explosion form. Seen bullshit like this be passable but god forbid edeard tanks a blast and we have to microanalyze how long he was exposed and try to calc from that when we slreafy have a calc? Ok

@lol 4th dimension reiatsu im not bothering responding to that as you didn't counter my points with anything substantial rather just repeated yourself which is not how debating works


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## Unlosing Ranger (Jun 21, 2017)

What a shitshow.


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## Regicide (Jun 21, 2017)

Dr. White said:


> You missed some pretty key words in my post like negligible and signifigant. You telling me that someone tanking a nuke blast (25 kt) from 100 yards away isn't town level?


Uhhh, yeah?

The area covered by a human cross-section relative to that of an explosion with a radius of some ninety-one meters is fairly small. For a nuclear weapon of that yield, I could certainly see the energy being lessened below the kiloton range.

I'd appreciate it if you dropped the persecution complex and Detergent non-sequiturs though.


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## Dr. White (Jun 21, 2017)

Regicide said:


> Uhhh, yeah?
> 
> The area covered by a human cross-section relative to that of an explosion with a radius of some ninety-one meters is fairly small. For a nuclear weapon of that yield, I could certainly see the energy being lessened below the kiloton range.
> 
> I'd appreciate it if you dropped the persecution complex and Detergent non-sequiturs though.


Gonna have to disagree. A 25 kt bomb has a fireball that is 300 meters... a third of the energy in a nuke is released as thermal radiation which would spread over 2 miles and 20 psi overpressure extends a bit over half a kilometer. So idk why you think we'd be looking at less than a kt when a person 100 yards away is still in fireball range, let alone far enough from the strongest shockwave/most of the thermal radiation.

Bleach examples are used because it's the only other series i know you're aware of and tge argument is relevant as it suggest ulq would be scaled orders of magnitudes down from his own blast by his own admission


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## Regicide (Jun 21, 2017)

Dr. White said:


> Gonna have to disagree. A 25 kt bomb has a fireball that is 300 meters... a third of the energy in a nuke is released as thermal radiation which would spread over 2 miles and 20 psi overpressure extends a bit over half a kilometer. So idk why you think we'd be looking at less than a kt when a person 100 yards away is still in fireball range, let alone far enough from the strongest shockwave/most of the thermal radiation.


Because surface area ratios?


Dr. White said:


> Bleach examples are used because it's the only other series i know you're aware of and tge argument is relevant as it suggest ulq would be scaled orders of magnitudes down from his own blast by his own admission


..Yes?

That's not a point against Ulquiorra, that just means Lanza's yield is greater than what we have the means to estimate.


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## Dr. White (Jun 21, 2017)

Regicide said:


> Because surface area ratios?
> ..Yes?
> 
> That's not a point against Ulquiorra, that just means Lanza's yield is greater than what we have the means to estimate.


So explain to me how the surface area ratios make sitting 100 yards from ground zero less than a kiloton. Just pointing out the concept is saying anything to me. I've never seen this argued for tanking a blast and subsequent scaling which is why I'm so curious.

Yes it does have to do with ulq's durability and hichigo. If ulq can't even be at the outskirts of his blast mes away from lanza, by your logic he can't even take a majorly lessened portion of the blast because "surface area ratios"


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## Regicide (Jun 21, 2017)

Dr. White said:


> So explain to me how the surface area ratios make sitting 100 yards from ground zero less than a kiloton.


Because the energy that a human being would be exposed to against their cross-section is only a fraction of the energy being imparted throughout the whole. From ninety-one meters away, the difference in surface area is vast enough such that said fraction can be conceivably lessened to such a degree. Think of inverse-square law.

Of course, this is complicated by a number of external factors in practice, but the base concept holds.


Dr. White said:


> I've never seen this argued for tanking a blast and subsequent scaling which is why I'm so curious.


I have. It's not uncommon.


Dr. White said:


> If ulq can't even be at the outskirts of his blast mes away from lanza, by your logic he can't even take a majorly lessened portion of the blast because "surface area ratios"


..Again, yes?

I don't see what this is supposed to contradict.


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## Dr. White (Jun 21, 2017)

Regicide said:


> Because the energy that a human being would be exposed to against their cross-section is only a fraction of the energy being imparted throughout the whole. From ninety-one meters away, the difference in surface area is vast enough such that said fraction can be conceivably lessened to such a degree. Think of inverse-square law.
> 
> Of course, this is complicated by a number of external factors in practice, but the base concept holds.
> I have. It's not uncommon.
> ...


But the human cross sections is never going to be big enough to absorb a kings share of the blast from any distance. If this was a 8 kt blast and I was a mile or two away I'd understand your point but the magnitude of the blast of a 25kt bomb at 100 yards is still very potent. The shockwave would raise anything in it's path and the fireball/thermal radiation are also major factors at that distance. If the tr is worth about 8 kiltons in itself over it's lifespan of 2 miles, idk how that + shockwave + fireball would be substantially less. Unless we are talking about energy just being absorbed by the human and not the external energy in the envronment which would still affect them. I guess my prob is the distance is not tha large Imo to claim < kilton worth of energy. I understand the energy wouldn't be whole but mot that lessened


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## Regicide (Jun 21, 2017)

Yes, we're just talking about the energy imparted on the human being because that's the relevant portion of the energy in regards to how resilient that would make a person.

Like I said, the actual impact of a bomb's detonation is distorted and complicated by such and such factors in reality, but the core idea stands.


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## Dr. White (Jun 21, 2017)

Regicide said:


> Yes, we're just talking about the energy imparted on the human being because that's the relevant portion of the energy in regards to how resilient that would make a person.
> 
> Like I said, the actual impact of a bomb's detonation is distorted and complicated by such and such factors in reality, but the core idea stands.


Than just taking their cross section doesn't work. There is enough energy to cause 3rd degree burns and blow up oil in gas tanks from miles away. The energy imparted on the human is much more than just the area of space they take up, especially if they aren't being insta whiped out, which was my point to reatsu. If you're standing there being exposed to things such as the fireball, thermal radiation and damage from the shockwave for some good amount time relative to the effects, and not insta fried or flung miles away then idk why you wouldn't scale to a good portion of the blast. 

I mean even if you are 10m away, going by this logic you still can't be scaled to the whole blast since it will disperse past you and not all the energy will be touching you. You'd have to be legit at ground zero to get any meaningful scaling

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Regicide (Jun 21, 2017)

What you're saying is really just that the total energy of an explosion is spread out over a greater area of effect than just what a person within its radius is exposed to.. which I'm not denying. It doesn't change the fact that ultimately, a human being is only going to be exposed to such and such fraction of the total energy at such and such distance. There are other factors that would ultimately come into play, but scenario presented in vacuum, this is how things play out.


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## Dr. White (Jun 21, 2017)

Regicide said:


> It doesn't change the fact that ultimately, a human being is only going to be exposed to such and such fraction of the total energy at such and such distance.


And my original point to Reatsu was you need to pretty far away from a town level explosion to be missing a large portion of the blast. I'd argue that you don't even need to be in the radius of the fireball based on 1/3 of total energy being thermal radiation and another large portion being the shockwaves, both of which can reach around miles. To me 100 yards isn't anything. if at 100 yards the 25 kt blast has lost enough energy to be < 1 kilton (despite it's fireball reaching 300m) I don't see how it's radiating 3rd degree burns 2 miles out and having 20psi at 650 m.

 And here in this feat we are talking about a dozen yards at max with a concentrated cone of energy.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Regicide (Jun 21, 2017)

Dr. White said:


> if at 100 yards the 25 kt blast has lost enough energy to be < 1 kilton (despite it's fireball reaching 300m) I don't see how it's radiating 3rd degree burns 2 miles out and having 20psi at 650 m.


No, see, you're making a critical misconception here. It's not that the explosion has lost energy at X distance, it's that the energy intensity has decreased.


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## Dr. White (Jun 21, 2017)

Regicide said:


> No, see, you're making a critical misconception here. It's not that the explosion has lost energy at X distance, it's that the energy intensity has decreased.


Decreased? Yes? Substantially? I think not given the metrics I pointed out. Atleast not that at 100 yards there is less than a kiloton pushing the remaining 500m of 20psi shockwave, and extremely intense heat being drafted 2 miles away at high enough intensity levels to cause the aforementioned affects.


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## Regicide (Jun 21, 2017)

Dr. White said:


> Atleast not that at 100 yards there is less than a kiloton pushing the remaining 500m of 20psi shockwave


As I just said, you're interpreting the issue incorrectly. The explosion hasn't lost energy in that sense.


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## Dr. White (Jun 21, 2017)

Regicide said:


> As I just said, you're interpreting the issue incorrectly. The explosion hasn't lost energy in that sense.


Can you explain it a bit more then? Cause I am legit lost and would rather learn this now than keep being uninformed.


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## OneSimpleAnime (Jun 21, 2017)

White im pretty sure Regi is saying that since a human body only takes up X amount of space, even if theres a kiloton of energy left in the explosion at that distance, a human would only take about 10% of that energy due to surface area. 

Like how blades cut things easier due to less surface area for energy to be spread out on. A person isnt going to take a kiloton worth of energy when they dont surround the entire explosion


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## Regicide (Jun 21, 2017)

Okay, let me back up and try to explain this in simpler terms.

Take a random explosion. For the sake of simplicity, let's assume that it radiates its energy outwards in a manner that resembles a hemisphere. This probably isn't technically accurate, but the comparison is one that works well enough for our purposes. At the moment of detonation, we can say that all of the explosion's energy is contained in the center.

As that energy radiates out, that energy is spread out over the surface area of our imaginary hemisphere, and that surface area increases in proportion with the blast radius. The energy is the same, but the intensity has decreased.

At 20 meters out, that would mean our hemisphere has a surface area of about 16.7k m^2. For an explosion of say, 1e+16 joules? That means that there's about 6e+11 joules per m^2 at a radius of 20 meters. That's our energy intensity at that distance.

Now say that there's a vaguely humanoid being standing at the edge of that 20 meter radius. Human beings have a cross-sectional surface area of about 1 m^2. Because of the way that the energy is radiated, that hypothetical human is only going to be exposed to a portion of the explosion's energy equivalent to their surface area multiplied by the current energy intensity.

In other words? They're only going to come into contact with 6e+11 joules out of the whole 1e+16.

Get it?

Reactions: Like 1


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## Dr. White (Jun 21, 2017)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> White im pretty sure Regi is saying that since a human body only takes up X amount of space, even if theres a kiloton of energy left in the explosion at that distance, a human would only take about 10% of that energy due to surface area.
> 
> Like how blades cut things easier due to less surface area for energy to be spread out on. A person isnt going to take a kiloton worth of energy when they dont surround the entire explosion


I got that part, but then this is the case for every explosion. Unless you are literally hit with a DBZ like ball of energy that is like a foot big and circular and there in it explodes outwards on your body with you at ground zero, no explosion is going to focus all of the energy on you. So therefore how does anyone get scaled to explosions under this logic? 

Plus like I said when we are talking about energy on this level, just being in the same mile radius as the origin of the blast can still have crazy affects catching oil on fire miles away, giving people 3rd degree burns, burning out retinas, etc. So if your not even miles away but 100 yards away legit still engulfed in the fireball/lions share of thermal radiation, and getting mashed by the shockwave which has yet to dissipate anywhere near all of it's energy, I'm not understanding how we're arguing for potency < 1 kiloton, when once again, the thermal radiation alone spread out over 2 miles should be about 8 kilotons worth.

I understand a person getting burned 2 miles away pretty severely does not scale them to the blast because whie still affected, it's the butt end of the blast effects, a bit different than being engulfed in the major explosion itself.


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## Dr. White (Jun 21, 2017)

Regicide said:


> Okay, let me back up and try to explain this in simpler terms.
> 
> Take a random explosion. For the sake of simplicity, let's assume that it radiates its energy outwards in a manner that resembles a hemisphere. This probably isn't technically accurate, but the comparison is one that works well enough for our purposes. At the moment of detonation, we can say that all of the explosion's energy is contained in the center.
> 
> ...


okay I get this, but to me this assumes that only the "energy" that comes in contact with our cross section in a split second of time is what's going to affect us. It doesn't account for the energy yet to reach a person that's still radiating towards them, or the fact that being the energy some fifty feat above your head, if in a vaccum, would still be enough to vaporize you without direct contact. I don't know exactly how to explain it I guess.


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## Dr. White (Jun 21, 2017)

So like in this vid, assuming all of the heroes survived this explosion even after it swept them up and went on to travel miles further, none of them would even scale to a portion of the blast? All of them are magnitudes of order weaker than it?


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## Regicide (Jun 21, 2017)

Dr. White said:


> okay I get this, but to me this assumes that only the "energy" that comes in contact with our cross section in a split second of time is what's going to affect us. It doesn't account for the energy yet to reach a person that's still radiating towards them, or the fact that being the energy some fifty feat above your head, if in a vaccum, would still be enough to vaporize you without direct contact. I don't know exactly how to explain it I guess.


No, power is still technically accounted for, it's just that the explanation is simplified.

You're right in that the explosion would be continually imparting energy on the person, but that just means the explosion is imparting X amount of energy per unit of time, relative to the surface area ratio of the person and the explosion at that radius. If they're still within the blast for the entirety of its lifespan, we can say that the example still holds, presuming that they maintained a static position compared to the blast's epicenter (and assuming that energy is equally distributed throughout said lifespan).

If not, and they were only in the explosion for a portion of that time, whatever fraction they received is further cut.


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## Regicide (Jun 21, 2017)

Of course, one of our pitfalls is that we don't actually account for power, simply because we're not reliably given the necessary information to do so.


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## Unlosing Ranger (Jun 21, 2017)

Dr. White said:


> , I'm not understanding how we're arguing for potency < 1 kiloton, when once again, the thermal radiation alone spread out over 2 miles should be about 8 kilotons worth.


People have survived Hiroshima within a mile's distance of energy imparted some a half a mile.
Same for Nagasaki. Some people survived within that radius twice. The energy imparted can't even be near 8 kilotons exerted on a single person.

Potency is lost with distance and it isn't a straight line like a direct blow would be. It's more spherical, so you need to be hit point blank to get the most. Works the same in videogames as well with splash damage vs direct  damage and such.
Getting hit point blank by Ulq's lanza would be worse in spear form, its yield goes down when it explodes like that since it's pure energy already. The total explosion energy calculated only tells how much it is condensed. In the case of explosions you have to be pointblank to get the most damage off it, but even then it's not imparting the full energy since it is dispersing as it explodes.

Condensed attacks get past durablity or equal value. An AoE attack of the same value doesn't.


> large AOE mcb like Bakugo, Todoriki, All Might, and Todoriki's dad


All might is condensed, he was the strongest most well known person in his universe. He can take the energy of his own blows.
Bakugo has started to learn how to concentrate his attacks into a smaller area because he realized his way of attacking is inprecise and ineffective vs top tiers like All might who actually have MCB durability. Though he's still emiting it and not taking the energy like allmight, he can't take the kind of attacks he'll be dishing out, luckily he doesn't have to.

Todoroki's attacks and his dad can't stack up to these two with their powerset.
They have AoE that'll take out fodder with no durablity/stamina or immobile those with not enough power to break the ice around them.


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Jun 22, 2017)

Dr. White said:


> @lol 4th dimension reiatsu im not bothering responding to that as you didn't counter my points with anything substantial rather just repeated yourself which is not how debating works



More like your points make absolutely no sense and you can't counter anything since your first response 

Like "even if someone can take a punch to the face it doesn't mean he wouldn't try to block", how you think Father or Kimblee are  incapable of killing anyone at all, that Armstrong punches are town level,that phisycs in FMA work exactly how they do IRL or that all this time Ed had no need to dodge ANYTHING because he can take the best move of the manga's god tier with little to no serious damage.



Jackalinthebox said:


> Come on, you have to try harder than that


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## Dr. White (Jun 22, 2017)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> More like your points make absolutely no sense and you can't counter anything since your first response
> 
> Like "even if someone can take a punch to the face it doesn't mean he wouldn't try to block", how you think Father or Kimblee are  incapable of anyone at all, that Armstrong punches are town level,that phisycs in FMA work exactly how they do IRL or that all this time Ed had no need to dodge ANYTHING because he can take the best move of the manga's god tier with little to no serious damage.


you are a legit idiot who doesn't even no what he's talking about. Counter none of my points and spout the same shit yet I'm not countering? enjoy the neg lmao


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Jun 22, 2017)

Dr. White said:


> you are a legit idiot who doesn't even no what he's talking about. Counter none of my points and spout the same shit yet I'm not countering? enjoy the neg lmao



So mad, anyway no Ed ain't Town level and you would of know if you actually read the manga instead of being an autistic fuck that needs to have explosions and logic explained to him 

Answer this:
Why is Ed capable of tanking with his face the best move of the manga's god tier?
Why is it important that Hohenheim was there to act as a barrier?
Why is the area ahead of Hohenhen full of tiles and rocks while everything else was turned to fucking sand?


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## JoJo (Jun 22, 2017)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> So mad, anyway no Ed ain't Town level and you would of know if you actually read the manga instead of being an autistic fuck that needs to have explosions and logic explained to him


get a load of THIS guy


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## The Hobo Wizard (Jun 22, 2017)

...

But who won?


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## Dr. White (Jun 22, 2017)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> So mad, anyway no Ed ain't Town level and you would of know if you actually read the manga instead of being an autistic fuck that needs to have explosions and logic explained to him


lmao if you could read you would have been able to actually counter my points. Also if you had comprehension you would understand the explosion talk was a complete side bar of mechanics and not even relevant to the blast here. Use of "autistic" is completely poor in use, even for an insult, and I can actually admit I'm wrong or ill informed when people who can actually debate/ explain shit present good arguments.

Not a dumbass who doesn't know that contained explosions are much deadlier than those out in the open and tries to use a pipe (which Ed got pierced with because of Kimblee's blast force) as downplay, and tries to use logical fallacies like special pleading to boost his hate for the series.

But then again why am I wasting my time with a ningen who doesn't even know how to debate?


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## TYPE-Rey (Jun 22, 2017)

Jesus fucking Christ  10 fucking pages in this thread and people still use the pipe stab bullshit?
@Dr. White ..honestly you should drop it here and do a separate thread  with Regi that will tackle this particular subject.
Like who the fuck isn't sick of hearing about that fucking green pipe ?
 Now i'm gonna see it every time i close my eyes


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Jun 22, 2017)

Dr. White said:


> lmao if you could read you would have been able to actually counter my points. Also if you had comprehension you would understand the explosion talk was a complete side bar of mechanics and not even relevant to the blast here. Use of "autistic" is completely poor in use, even for an insult, and I can actually admit I'm wrong or ill informed when people who can actually debate/ explain shit present good arguments.
> 
> Not a dumbass who doesn't know that contained explosions are much deadlier than those out in the open and tries to use a pipe (which Ed got pierced with because of Kimblee's blast force) as downplay, and tries to use logical fallacies like special pleading to boost his hate for the series.
> 
> But then again why am I wasting my time with a ningen who doesn't even know how to debate?



Ok sure but just give me your answer for this questions:
Why is Ed capable of tanking with his face the best move of the manga's god tier?
Why is it important that Hohenheim was there to act as a barrier?
Why is the area ahead of Hohenhen full of tiles and rocks while everything else was turned to fucking sand?

You said the last one isn't important because you still take almost the same energy of an explosion even if you aren't hit directly IRL, but clearly that's not how it works here because there is a clear diference between the part Hohenheim shielded and the part he didn't.

The Kimblee thing is the same, Ed tanked a small part of the explosion and was damaged by debris and shit.


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## The Hobo Wizard (Jun 22, 2017)

I feel like this debate belongs in the meta battledome now. Maybe I'm wrong, but when was the last time people even mentioned the gauntlet?


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## Dr. White (Jun 22, 2017)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> Ok sure but just give me your answer for this questions:
> Why is Ed capable of tanking with his face the best move of the manga's god tier?


What do you mean with his face? Since when do we do selective durability here? Ed tanked the blast...Idk what to tell you, it's on the panel, we see Ed taking the blast and his arm buckling under the pressure as a clear indicator he's being damaged. Then Ed is blown away. Even if we aren't giving him the value of the full blast it is still town level durability for Ed. Similar to how Meruem can still get small city for having just his torso "survive" the Rose bomb.



> Why is it important that Hohenheim was there to act as a barrier?


Because Ed's teacher was there and clearly not in a position/state to defend herself? She would clearly have been killed if Hohenheim was not there to protect here. We also see Ed run over to her. Why would and herself be in two different directions if both protected by Hohenheim? He only has so much surface area.

Furthermore Ed was not even directly behind hohenheim. He was raised on a slab and meters behind him. The conical blast consumes everything in the AOE, so not seeing how Hohenheim shields him from the blast in such a position.


> Why is the area ahead of Hohenhen full of tiles and rocks while everything else was turned to fucking sand?


Why would are you pointing out the area ahead of hohenheim? By your logic if he protected Ed, everything behind him would be fine including where he's original position was, and the area where he landed...

Ed was clearly hit, just like hohenheim, don't care if you wanna claim hohenheim took more of the blast, we see Ed take damage on panel and not get obliterated. This being from meters in front of father. We also saw the AOE of the cone wiping out a large portion of the building from a further distance.


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## Regicide (Jun 22, 2017)

Dr. White said:


> We also see Ed run over to her.


Actually no, we literally don't see this. Occam's razor points to basically anything but this conclusion, actually.

Like, even if you ignore the fact that perspective never paints Izumi as anything other than right there, you run into the glaring issue that Ed would have seen Hohenheim long before ever noticing Izumi had he been at a distance.


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## Dr. White (Jun 22, 2017)

Regicide said:


> Actually no, we literally don't see this. Occam's razor points to basically anything but this conclusion, actually.
> 
> Like, even if you ignore the fact that perspective never paints Izumi as anything other than right there, you run into the glaring issue that Ed would have seen Hohenheim long before ever noticing Izumi had he been at a distance.


Cuh.
Ed is hit by blast, so is Izumi given her initial position of being upright and blocking. Hohenheim takes most of the blast for her.

We see Izumi on the ground some feet to yards away from Ed. Ed literally gets up and closes the distance to hold her up and talk to her.

In the scene where Ed is on the ground she is no where near him. Only seen in the near distance when Ed sits up. Are you saying Ed didn't move toward her and magically got within feet of her?


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## Dr. White (Jun 22, 2017)

Also the second part about hohenheim is complete conjecture. Ed was laid out on the ground amidst a *ton of smoke that had been clearing up*. He looks to his right to check out his arm and sees Izumi who was seemingly aware of Hohenheim. Not sure how you are jumping to that conclusion so definitively.


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Jun 22, 2017)

Dr. White said:


> What do you mean with his face? Since when do we do selective durability here? Ed tanked the blast...Idk what to tell you, it's on the panel, we see Ed taking the blast and his arm buckling under the pressure as a clear indicator he's being damaged. Then Ed is blown away. Even if we aren't giving him the value of the full blast it is still town level durability for Ed. Similar to how Meruem can still get small city for having just his torso "survive" the Rose bomb.



Doesn't Meruem get the durability because he powered up after?

In this case Ed would be tanking an attack that's not only beyond all the calcs there are  for the manga but that is also coming from the strongest character in FMA, he definitely should ge plastered by it if he takes a significant amount of the attack energy just because he woud also die from attacks from weaker characters, since in FMA there's no direct scaling or progression in physical stats.




Dr. White said:


> Because Ed's teacher was there and clearly not in a position/state to defend herself? She would clearly have been killed if Hohenheim was not there to protect here. We also see Ed run over to her. Why would and herself be in two different directions if both protected by Hohenheim? He only has so much surface area.
> 
> Furthermore Ed was not even directly behind hohenheim. He was raised on a slab and meters behind him. The conical blast consumes everything in the AOE, so not seeing how Hohenheim shields him from the blast in such a position.
> 
> ...



I have no idea where exactly is Ed in relation to Izumi and Hohenheim, what I can tell you is that he is laying on a place where he still has something other than sand below him and that he for some reason sees Izumi first and then his dad even thoug they are at like 5m from each as an exageration.

Doubt that detail wasn't intended by Arakawa.


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## Dr. White (Jun 22, 2017)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> Doesn't Meruem get the durability because he powered up after?


No? He gets it because his body was in tact after the nuke which ha nothing to do with the nuke



> In this case Ed would be tanking an attack that's not only beyond all the calcs there are  for the manga but that is also coming from the strongest character in FMA, he definitely should ge plastered by it if he takes a significant amount of the attack energy just because he woud also die from attacks


No it's not, you clearly didn't read the posted blog.
A.) Ed is one of the strongest alchemist at this point.
B.) Kimblee has a slew of feats ranging from MCB to town level himself. Guess who's attack Ed tanked within a confined space?
C.) Clearly not unless you think Hohenheim is >>>>>> Ed durability wise. And like I said before we clearly see Ed take a burnt of the blast so....still town level no matter how you slice it.



[/QUOTE]

I have no idea where Ed is exactly in relation to Izumi and Hohenheim, what I can tell you is that he is laying on a place where he still has something other than sand below him and that he for some reason sees Izumi first and then his dad even thoug they are at like 5m from each as an exageration.

[/QUOTE]
We clearly get a scan seeing their realtive positions. Perspective is a bit wonky but she's safely a good 3 to 5 meters away from Ed. When we see Hohenheim he is directly in front of Izumi, not Ed, who once again obviously took on the blast as we see him engulfed in it and his arm buckle. We see vaproziation around him on the floor even, where do you think the smoke around him is coming from?

If you wanna say hohenheim took more of the blast? Ok. Still doesn't magically negate Ed's feat of being hit by the blast and surviving with some wear and tear.


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## Dr. White (Jun 22, 2017)

Also look at Ed's right leg, it is clearly covered in sand. There rest of the area around him is a mix of pulverized/vaporized content (evident by the smoke) which is consistent with what we saw happen to the building which got hit ways away from the blast in comparison to ed and hohenheim.


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## Regicide (Jun 22, 2017)

Nowhere near him? She's right there. There's no need for Ed to move anywhere, and there's no indication that Ed ever actually moves anywhere between panels; all he ever does is just get to his knees.

Like, if the two of them were anywhere other than right next each to other, Ed would never have caught Izumi in his field of vision prior to Hohenheim. Even if they _were _far enough away that Ed would need to crawl some marginal distance, there would still be no explanation as to why the ground Ed was initially lying was untouched other than him being shielded, given that everywhere else is completely fucked and entirely stripped away.

The amount of mental gymnastics needed to present this in favor of the alternative supported by Occam's razor is absurd.


Dr. White said:


> Also the second part about hohenheim is complete conjecture. Ed was laid out on the ground amidst a *ton of smoke that had been clearing up*. He looks to his right to check out his arm and sees Izumi who was seemingly aware of Hohenheim. Not sure how you are jumping to that conclusion so definitively.


Okay, so let's get this straight.

You're telling me that I'm pulling shit out of my ass to claim that Ed would have seen Hohenheim had he not been immediately next to Izumi, on account of field of vision issues.. while simultaneously claiming that Ed moved while off-panel and that Hohenheim was also obscured by dust clouds that were off-panel, neither of which can actually be verified.


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## Unlosing Ranger (Jun 22, 2017)

Dr. White said:


> Also the second part about hohenheim is complete conjecture. Ed was laid out on the ground amidst a *ton of smoke that had been clearing up*. He looks to his right to check out his arm and sees Izumi who was seemingly aware of Hohenheim. Not sure how you are jumping to that conclusion so definitively.


I wouldn't be looking at the smoke. I'd be looking closely around Ed.
See the rubble?


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## Dr. White (Jun 22, 2017)

Regicide said:


> Nowhere near him? She's right there. There's no need for Ed to move anywhere, and there's no indication that Ed ever actually moves anywhere between panels; all he ever does is just gets to his knees.


Yes there is and you're being obtuse about this. If she were next to him then we'd see her in the first shot of ed where we can clearly see the immediate surroundings. He only sees her after checking out his arm and turrning. She is clearly some meters off in his periphery, it's bs to claim otherwise. Unless Ed can jump with his knees, teleport, or idk moved over to her, then he wouldn't be in a position to hold her upright. 



> Like, if the two of them were anywhere other than right next each to other, Ed would never have caught Izumi in his field of vision prior to Hohenheim. Even if they _were _far enough away that Ed would need to crawl some marginal distance, there would still be no explanation as to why the ground Ed was initially lying was untouched other than him being shielded, given that everywhere else is completely fucked and entirely stripped away.


Are we looking at the same panels?
- Izumi is clealry away from Ed. This bs hohenheim excuse is a wack justification, especially given the smoke around.
- The ground Ed is on is clearly damaged... Do you not see the smoke around him, the pulverized rock, and the sand covering his right leg as he's on the ground.



> The amount of mental gymnastics needed to


Mental gymnastics like trying to use line of sight argument to nullify on panel sighting of ed not being directly close to izumi? The ed that just got blasted to the ground, in an area covered by smoke and debris? Yeah ok.



> You're telling me that I'm pulling shit out of my ass to claim that Ed would have seen Hohenheim had he not been immediately next to Izumi, on account of field of vision issues.. while simultaneously claiming that Ed moved while off-panel and that Hohenheim was also obscured by dust clouds that were off-panel, neither of which can actually be verified.


Yes you legit make no sense. 
> first panel we see Ed and his immediate surroundings. If Hohenheim were right in front of him he would have saw him first. Ed is literally looking right in front of him in the first panel we see him as he's on the ground... Not if he was displaced diagonally to hohenheim, and Ed's first instinct was to check his arm to the right, ya know like what we saw on panel.
> Ed checks his arm out and also sees Izumi as smoke is clearing. all around him, and process which ya know is random and completely dependent on air pressure. Ed sees her off in his periphery, and she is clearly not right next to him. Not only did we get a semi aerial view of Ed and the feet around him, but we see there is ground surrounding Izumi as well. By your logic, Ed literally just turns his body a couple of inches and picks her up. Which is clearly not possible given the preceding scans.

I literally don't know what you're looking at.


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## Dr. White (Jun 22, 2017)

Unlosing Ranger said:


> I wouldn't be looking at the smoke. I'd be looking closely around Ed.
> See the rubble?


Why? The smoke is indicative of vaporization? It's literally surround him on all sides...ala the blast hit much more than Hohenheims surface area. lest it would have only been to Ed's right.

The ground around ed is literally pulverized and his foot is covered in sand.


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## Unlosing Ranger (Jun 22, 2017)

Dr. White said:


> Why? The smoke is indicative of vaporization? It's literally surround him on all sides...ala the blast hit much more than Hohenheims surface area. lest it would have only been to Ed's right.
> 
> The ground around ed is literally pulverized and his foot is covered in sand.


Yeah, AROUND Ed.


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## Dr. White (Jun 22, 2017)

You can even see motion lines from Ed as he travels over to Izumi


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## Dr. White (Jun 22, 2017)

Unlosing Ranger said:


> Yeah, AROUND Ed.


what are you getting at?


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## Dr. White (Jun 22, 2017)

anywho i gotta get to sleep guess I'll check in tomorrow.


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## Regicide (Jun 22, 2017)

Those.. aren't motion lines though. That's just a generic starburst effect.


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## Dr. White (Jun 22, 2017)

Regicide said:


> Those.. aren't motion lines though. That's just a generic starburst effect.


What? They are clearly motion lines, the most generic of motion lines found in nearly all manga depicting...motion.

But no they are just "random starburst lines" that happen to show up in that panel as ed closes the distances and goes from sitting up to kneeling close enough to izumi to pick her up.


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## Regicide (Jun 22, 2017)

If those were motion lines, why in the world do they not actually trace Ed's movement? Why are they fanned out around him, at the edges of the panel? Why are they purely vertical lines, as if implying he hopped his way over?

Because they're not motion lines, it's a starburst meant for dramatic emphasis. This is grasping at straws here.


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## Dr. White (Jun 22, 2017)

Regicide said:


> If those were motion lines, why in the world do they not actually trace Ed's movement? Why are they fanned out around him, at the edges of the panel? Why are they purely vertical lines, as if implying he hopped his way over?
> 
> Because they're not motion lines, it's a starburst meant for dramatic emphasis. This is grasping at straws here.


Clearly because of the POV. We're not seeing a lateral viee of him we see a coronal view aka from the front. The lines are tracing his movement from front to back in context of the panel. 

What do "starburst lines even supposed to represent? Why are they only in that panel? 

And that isn't even a crux of the argument for ed moving. 

I will draw on the panels tomorrow after class


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## shade0180 (Jun 22, 2017)

Dr. White said:


> No? He gets it because his body was in tact after the nuke which ha nothing to do with the nuke



meruem is far from intact after the nuke.

 he was left with an upper body that is even barely an upper body.. 

no limbs, pure charcoal, no blood, he is even barely recognizable... fuck he looks like a black mushroom at that point..


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## Kurou (Jun 22, 2017)

Dr. White said:


> Clearly because of the POV. We're not seeing a lateral viee of him we see a coronal view aka from the front. The lines are tracing his movement from front to back in context of the panel.
> 
> What do "starburst lines even supposed to represent? Why are they only in that panel?
> 
> ...



Yo bro, let me get you a ladder before you hurt yourself reaching

Ill get you a sippie cup too so you dont have to grasp at straws

Reactions: Creative 1


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## Kurou (Jun 22, 2017)

Actually you might be right.


Looking back on a few fights in the manga that actually seems to be Arakawa's style. She seems to draw motion lines with varying degrees in length. Normally I'd say those are obvious emphasis/shock lines but i'd have to reread the manga more to tell. And I got other shit to do so that aint happening


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## Unlosing Ranger (Jun 22, 2017)

Kurou said:


> Actually you might be right.
> 
> 
> Looking back on a few fights in the manga that actually seems to be Arakawa's style. She seems to draw motion lines with varying degrees in length. Normally I'd say those are obvious emphasis/shock lines but i'd have to reread the manga more to tell. And I got other shit to do so that aint happening


You can tell the exact distance away from the rubble and the fact ed is on his knees.
He moved the distance you would getting out of bed 

Not that it even matters as the "vapor" could be anything. Like say, dust. You know since sand is on Ed.
Or the fact that Hiem is in front of both of them and they are both close, so it's possible he took the brunt for them at that distance due to the angles. Or the fact that the only thing that really took the brunt of the blast on Ed was the amazing automail Winry makes.


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## Dr. White (Jun 22, 2017)

shade0180 said:


> meruem is far from intact after the nuke.
> 
> he was left with an upper body that is even barely an upper body..
> 
> no limbs, pure charcoal, no blood, he is even barely recognizable... fuck he looks like a black mushroom at that point..


By body still in tact I was obvioulsy referring to him having some sembeleance of a torso left intact and not being completely vaporized. Unless you have another reason for why he got the small city value.



Unlosing Ranger said:


> > You can tell the exact distance away from the rubble and the fact ed is on his knees.
> > He moved the distance you would getting out of bed
> 
> 
> ...


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## OneSimpleAnime (Jun 22, 2017)

Those movement lines are showing him crawling over to her, its fairly obvious


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## Dr. White (Jun 22, 2017)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> Those movement lines are showing him crawling over to her, its fairly obvious


naw dog, she was right next to him the whole time. Same distance as you getting out of bed, and those are just starburst lines.


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## Sablés (Jun 22, 2017)

Dr. White said:


> What? They are clearly motion lines, the most generic of motion lines found in nearly all manga depicting...motion.


No, they don't have to be.

Those lines indicate shock just as much as they do movement - Arakawa isn't special in that regard. We don't actually see Ed moving in that panel but we do see him notice Izumi's battered form so i'd say the former is more likely.

If you're going to turn this discussion into wild interpretations based on exploiting artistic license, please don't.


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## Dr. White (Jun 22, 2017)

Sablés said:


> No, they don't have to be.
> 
> Those lines indicate shock just as much as they do movement. We don't actually see Ed moving in that panel but we do see him notice Izumi's battered form so i'd say the latter is more likely.
> 
> If you're going to turn this discussion into wild interpretations based on exploiting artistic license, please don't.


"They don't have to be" but "they clearly are".

Stop proposing ambiguity as a means to try and dismiss the obvious. They are fucking motion lines. We legit see *the same fucking lines pages later as Ed moves from Izumi to hold Hohenheim up*. But I guess we didn't see Ed move on panel, so Hohenheim must have been not a foot from them right? Despite us clearly seeing him be several feet from them. But shit didn't appear on panel so can't make any logical conclusions.


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## Sablés (Jun 22, 2017)

Dr. White said:


> "They don't have to be" but "they clearly are".


>"They clearly are"
>Both interpretations be substituted for each other
>Scans show surprise but no depiction of physical movement
>"Its _clearly _movement" he says

rofl


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## Unlosing Ranger (Jun 22, 2017)

Dr. White said:


> naw dog, she was right next to him the whole time. Same distance as you getting out of bed, and those are just starburst lines.


The same rocks/rubble don't lie, not my fault you are blind.


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## Dr. White (Jun 22, 2017)

Sablés said:


> >"They clearly are"
> >Both interpretations be substituted for each other
> >Scans show surprise but no depiction of physical movement
> >"Its _clearly _movement" he says
> ...


Yet those lines are explicitly used for movement throughout the manga, we clearly see Ed is not fucking next to Izumi, and not 3 pages later we "don't see Ed move" from Izumi to hohenheim yet just see him placed in front of hohenheim between the latter and IZumi and get those marks to indicate the movement. Whatever mate.


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## Unlosing Ranger (Jun 22, 2017)

Did you really just prove yourself wrong with your own argument?


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## Dr. White (Jun 22, 2017)

Even more motion lines


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## Unlosing Ranger (Jun 22, 2017)

": Some of the only consistent debris we see from the direction where Ed came from"
"Looks exactly like the debris with rods sticking out of it."


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## Dr. White (Jun 22, 2017)

Unlosing Ranger said:


> ": Some of the only consistent debris we see from the direction where Ed came from"
> "Looks exactly like the debris with rods sticking out of it."


Which are clearly not seen around Izumi in the aerial shot of those two and hohenheim and more consistent with the debris around the soldiers carrying Ed and Izumi away...

Look at all the fragmented rock in the pic with Ed, and then look at the third pic with Ed holding Izumi. Where the hell do you see that level of fragmentation?


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## Unlosing Ranger (Jun 22, 2017)

Picks the rumble with two straight rods in it and says it looks exactly like the rubble in the opposite position with a single bent rod. 
He clearly came from near the rubble in which the world bubble "master! "Master!" was.

The rubble there has a single bent rod and makes sense from the viewing perspective he originally had.
In addition thanks to the Hiem scan you finally gave we can clearly see Ed was on the same tiles Hiem had blocked the blast from 
(BECAUSE OF AN ANGLE. You know, like I was saying earlier.) and seeing as he wasn't that far from teach and he wasn't on a bunch of non-tiled Barren ground the conclusion is obvious. He wasn't off panel at all.

In addition the perspective you are claiming Ed has from being offscreen doesn't even make sense to your own evidence.
He has a clear view of her.

You're blind as fuck man, don't get mad at me because you are.


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## Sablés (Jun 22, 2017)

Dr. White said:


> Yet those lines are explicitly used for movement throughout the manga


Who said otherwise? We're arguing why this somehow applies to this specific context when there is a more sensible alternative. No need to go on a tangent here.



> we clearly see Ed is not fucking next to Izumi


No we don't.



> and not 3 pages later we "don't see Ed move" from Izumi to hohenheim yet just see him placed in front of hohenheim between the latter and IZumi and get those marks to indicate the movement. Whatever mate.



Again, no we _don't_. That's fucked up perspective (which is the coffin on your argument) and is exactly what I mean by you trying to exploit artistic license to  reach like crazy.




See this? Now check again



Ed is _still _with Izumi and we see those same lines there too in the bottom left panel. Is Ed supposed to be moving in that scan or am I just seeing things?


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## OS (Jun 22, 2017)

Wasn't this supposed to be about scar


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## Dr. White (Jun 22, 2017)

Unlosing Ranger said:


> Picks the rumble with two straight rods in it and says it looks exactly like the rubble in the opposite position with a single bent rod.


Both clearly have two rods sticking out of them..


> He clearly came from near the rubble in which the world bubble "master! "Master!" was.


False. In the scan with hohenheim we literally SEE what is directly to the right of Izumi. There is no cratering or fragmented rocks there...Neither is there any consistent under/around with what we saw Ed laying in. Where do you see the piped-rock that was right next to his leg?



> The rubble there has a single bent rod and makes sense from the viewing perspective he originally had.
> In addition thanks to the Hiem scan you finally gave we can clearly see Ed was on the same tiles Hiem had blocked the blast from


There is no rubble with a single bent rod. The two we see with rods both have two rods coming out of them, maybe you should look a little closer instead of calling others blind?

No, clearly not. There is legit no such fragmeted rock that we saw in Ed's original position. The large stones we see with Ed holding Izumi are still largely in tact no consistent at all with the fragmentation of earth under Edward, the yellow boxed fragmentation, or the piped rock. We SEE what is directly to the right of izumi and it is clearly and uteerly different.
and seeing as he wasn't that far from teach and he wasn't on a bunch of non-tiled Barren ground the conclusion is obvious. He wasn't off panel at all.



> In addition the perspective you are claiming Ed has from being offscreen doesn't even make sense to your own evidence.
> He has a clear view of her.


Which is why I added the last pic because we clearly see as the soldiers are carrying them away it isn't all barren sand...Next Father shoots through fragmented rock at his side to catch them standing on...fragmented rock...which was not what Izumi was lying on.

Ed was off screen in rubble of rock that had been fragmented/partially vaporized by the rock..consistent with the soldiers location as they ran away from Izumi/hohenheim's spot, and what we see Edward laying in.


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## Dr. White (Jun 22, 2017)

Sablés said:


> Who said otherwise? We're arguing why this somehow applies to this specific context when there is a more sensible alternative. No need to go on a tangent here.


It is not the most sensible when we have scans showing Ed not directly laying next to Izumi, and instead makes more sense for those to be motion lines in the context of him moving towards his teacher who he just saw blasted as well.




> No we don't.


Clearly we do when she wasn't next to him in the first shot of Ed, and when he does see her she is off in his periphery. She would have been right next to his arm had this been the case.




> Again, no we _don't_. That's fucked up perspective (which is the coffin on your argument) and is exactly what I mean by you trying to exploit artistic license to  reach like crazy.


Not at all and I'll explain why.




> See this? Now check again
> 
> 
> 
> Ed is _still _with Izumi and we see those same lines there too in the bottom left panel. Is Ed supposed to be moving in that scan or am I just seeing things?


No, Ed clearly goes back to Izumi off screen. This is the author not explcitly showing stuff and admittedly messing up the perspective.

You can clearly see Ed is right in front of Hohenheim's face, and *Ed's arm is under hohenheim's and about to go around his waist when he yells "hold on"* (consistent with Ed about to help his father) as he's about to prop him up. Izumi is legit nowhere to be found right next to ed in that original scan?

That is not just a matter of bad perspective. In the scan where father throws Hohenheim we see Izumi and Ed are some feet away. How is Ed placing his arms around his dad's waist if he did not move from Izumi to his dad?

How are you just looking past that?


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## Sablés (Jun 22, 2017)

Dr. White said:


> No, Ed clearly goes back to Izumi off screen.


Jesus fucking christ

Against my better judgement, I'm going to argue this.



Dr. White said:


> You can clearly see Ed is right in front of Hohenheim's face and *Ed's arm is under hohenheim's and about to go around his waist when he yells "hold on"* (consistent with Ed about to help his father) as he's about to prop him up. Izumi is legit nowhere to be found right next to ed in that original scan?



Every last bit of that is a perspective issue. You never get a clear scan to determine the distance between Ed and Hohenheim, that isn't up for debate.

And Its stupefying how you're arguing Ed going to help Hohenheim is consistent with his character but then ignore what you're implying by him bailing on his dad to go and chill back with Izumi. Clearly he must have had all the time in the world because in the frame Father grabs and tosses Hohenheim, Ed would've already crossed the distance back to her. Surprised Ed wasn't blitzing everyone in the story with that kind of speed.

What even-


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## Dr. White (Jun 22, 2017)

Sablés said:


> Jesus fucking christ


Tables.

1st panel


Second panel.

Where next to Ed (the triangle) do you see fucking Izumi?

How are you ignoring (the box) Ed being close enough to hohenheim to grab him?


Third panel

Ed is back with Izumi holding her. You are legit ignoring a whole scene of Ed being absent of Izumi to go help his father, for what reason? Using this dumbass "we didn't see it so let's use occam's razor to horribly suit my argument" in light of using basic common sense. Ed clearly changes positions thrice there, this isn't a matter of opinion. So tell me, besides moving himself, how did he go from holding izumi, to not holding her and going to hold Hohenheim, to holding her again?


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## OS (Jun 22, 2017)

Dr. White said:


> So tell me, besides moving himself, how did he go from holding izumi, to not holding her and going to hold Hohenheim, to holding her again?


inconsistent art.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Nighty the Mighty (Jun 23, 2017)

what exactly is being argued here?


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## The Hobo Wizard (Jun 23, 2017)

Nighty the Mighty said:


> what exactly is being argued here?


Nothing of real consequence to the original question, mostly. 

Also, who is or is not a poopyhead.


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## Dr. White (Jun 23, 2017)

Sablés said:


> Jesus fucking christ
> 
> Against my better judgement, I'm going to argue this.
> 
> ...


< persoective issue.
< ed is on panel not fucking with izumi and going to hold up hohenheim consistent with his fucking dialogue.

Yeah clearly a perspective issue that the author coincidentally wrote ed telling his father to hang on while simeultaneously not drawing izumi with him and showing us ed reaching out to his father not fucking feet away from him.

Maybe you could argue that bullshit if idk... Ed was still holding izumi and not on his hands and knees literally inches away from grabing his dad's torso. But you can't. Nothing to do with perspective, art inconsistency in drawimg the scenes chronologically? Ok. But perspective? Hell no. And art inconsistency still doesn't excuse the blatant fucking intention of the author especially when were shown on the damn panel what's happening

I'm done with this bullshit lmao. The hoops ya'll are going through to downplay this series is ridiculous. Like this is legit the most uneccessarily hypercritical nonsense I've ever been involved with.


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## LoveLessNHK (Jun 23, 2017)

I tried to find the horse in the scans, but it was apparently beaten so far passed dead that it just blended in with the dust and debris. 

All I've learned from these scans is that whatever her name is that drew this didn't know what perspective was. Unless you're implying Ed was playing hopscotch between Izumi and Hoenheim, then the simple answer is that it was a perspective issue and that the whole time he was near Izumi and never moved nearer to Hoenheim, despite the picture that made it appear as if they were close enough for Ed to catch him as he fell. 

I read this a LONG ass time ago, and so the details are fuzzy, but I remember her having a sense of art that made it somewhat hard to follow sequences of events and things. 

Anyway. The argument for the past couple pages is the explosion, right? Whether or not Ed was hit straight on with it, or if Hoenheim's eagle spread prevented some of the blast from hitting both Izumi AND Ed. In the picture where Ed is laid spread out on his back, we see the lines implying intact tiles. In the overhead view we see that everywhere outside of Hoenheim's cone of protection is turned to shit, and the only intact tiles (that are viewable) are inside his cone of protection. Now, we can assume Edward was relatively close to her, or that he was incredibly far away and the artist just said "ugh, that's too far to show him running, so, fuck it". 

I'd lean toward him having been rather close to her. Maybe not so close that he just turned around, but also not far enough as to be outside of Hoenheim's cone. 

As for the movement/surprise lines. Regardless of whether or not he moved a far distance, or just scooted quickly over from a short distance, the movement lines would make sense. So if they were movement lines, it wouldn't really prove anything one way or the other. On the other hand, it seems more likely that they are surprise lines, or excitement lines. Idk, just something to express an emotive outburst. She clearly used vague lines everywhere, so whatever, it's not really  here nor there as it doesn't prove anything no matter how you choose to interpret them.


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## OS (Jun 23, 2017)

funnier reading this than participating


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## Unlosing Ranger (Jun 24, 2017)

LoveLessNHK said:


> All I've learned from these scans is that whatever her name is that drew this didn't know what perspective was. Unless you're implying Ed was playing hopscotch between Izumi and Hoenheim, then the simple answer is that it was a perspective issue and that the whole time he was near Izumi and never moved nearer to Hoenheim, despite the picture that made it appear as if they were close enough for Ed to catch him as he fell.
> 
> Anyway. The argument for the past couple pages is the explosion, right? Whether or not Ed was hit straight on with it, or if Hoenheim's eagle spread prevented some of the blast from hitting both Izumi AND Ed.* In the picture where Ed is laid spread out on his back, we see the lines implying intact tiles. In the overhead view we see that everywhere outside of Hoenheim's cone of protection is turned to shit, and the only intact tiles (that are viewable) are inside his cone of protection. Now, we can assume Edward was relatively close to her, or that he was incredibly far away and the artist just said "ugh, that's too far to show him running, so, fuck it".
> 
> I'd lean toward him having been rather close to her. *Maybe not so close that he just turned around, but also not far enough as to be outside of Hoenheim's cone.


But but but Occam's razor is stupid.


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## Dr. White (Jun 24, 2017)

Unlosing Ranger said:


> But but but Occam's razor is stupid.


< Argues Ed was protected.
< We see Ed get hit and affected by the blast, unlike Izumi
< Ed's right arm is damaged despite that being the closest side to Hohenheim's "cone of protection".
< Let's argue perspective to try and denounce the obvious.
< ?????
< Profit


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## Unlosing Ranger (Jun 24, 2017)

Dr. White said:


> < Argues Ed was protected.
> < We see Ed get hit and affected by the blast, unlike Izumi
> < Ed's right arm is damaged despite that being the closest side to Hohenheim's "cone of protection".
> < Let's argue perspective to try and denounce the obvious.
> ...


>You still being wrong
>You not realizing that Izumi was in more direct protection than Ed
>You putting "cone of protection" in quotes when it's actually a cone of protection
>You thinking two straight rods are the same as a single visible bent one

Bruh.


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