# Main Pairing Debate Thread



## ryz (May 25, 2011)

All your pairing stuff here please.

Also, No Flaming.

I don't follow the shipping scene much, but I have this nagging feeling Kishi is trying to push SasuSaku and NaruHina.

Debate.


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## Hiroshi (May 25, 2011)

*I'll let this live for now, but if it gets out of hand in the slightest I'm locking it. If you don't think you can post without bashing, trolling, etc. then don't post. You will be banned.*


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## Dokiz1 (May 25, 2011)

Sakura sure looks happy loving a guy like Sasuke...likeeeee so positive  


Oh wait.....and peuple like this shitty pairing


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## bearzerger (May 25, 2011)

Moment of silence please as we commiserate the end of NaruSaku.

atleast until it gets ressurected in a few chapters. XD


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## Evilene (May 25, 2011)

lol keeping pairing shit in one place.

i like that.


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## ryz (May 25, 2011)

Hiro said:


> *I'll let this live for now, but if it gets out of hand in the slightest I'm locking it. If you don't think you can post without bashing, trolling, etc. then don't post. You will be banned.*



:GULP:
I only made this so that we don't have a dozen of these sprouting everywhere. I meant no offence.


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## kubik (May 25, 2011)

Where is my long awaited Naruto->Hinata fanservice Kishi!


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## Yagami1211 (May 25, 2011)

No, OP, nooooooooooooooooooo.

What the hell did you do ?

You opened the pandora box !


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## Chaelius (May 25, 2011)

Yagami1211 said:


> No, OP, nooooooooooooooooooo.
> 
> What the hell did you do ?
> 
> You opened the pandora box !



Implying we wouldn't have topics about this either way ... at least with this topic you can merge them and keep everything quarantined


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## ~Gesy~ (May 25, 2011)

narusaku


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## Skaddix (May 25, 2011)

Lol get job OP way to keep this all contained.
so we got. 
Kiba Neji
Hinata Naruto
Fodder Sakura
Sakura Neji
Sakura Sasuke
Raikage Tsunade
Bee Tsunade 

Anything else?


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## Seto Kaiba (May 25, 2011)

I think it's people looking too much into it. How many times over the years has one occurrence been interpreted by a pairing fandom as some sort of definitive victory only for Kishi to either go nowhere with it or neglect it entirely? He's gonna string people along until the very end, and I doubt anything will ultimately change.


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## ryz (May 25, 2011)

Chaelius said:


> Implying we wouldn't have topics about this either way ... at least with this topic you can merge them and keep everything quarantined



That was my intention as well.

ONTOPIC:

As I said earlier, I don't follow the shipping scene much, but is it too much of a stretch now, after the Sasuke flashback panel, to believe that Sakura confession to Naruto was indeed a fake?


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## gabzilla (May 25, 2011)

Kishimoto will continue trolling, though. Nothing is certain.

Also KibaNeji is hot


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## -JT- (May 25, 2011)

Mate, this chapter was all about BeeTsunade


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## Evilene (May 25, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> Kishimoto will continue trolling, though. Nothing is certain.
> 
> Also KibaNeji is hot



I love that gif.

Also, I agree...we should talk about KibaNeji more. .


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## Dokiz1 (May 25, 2011)

kubik said:


> Where is my long awaited Naruto->Hinata fanservice Kishi!



Next arc...or maybe the arc after the next one? Just have some patience lol


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## NarutoIzDaMan (May 25, 2011)

Easy there tiger....both pairings are still as one-sided as they were a year ago.


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## Hitt (May 25, 2011)

If anyone thinks this chapter in any way shape or form will decide the pairing debates of this manga...

He/she is _really_ na?ve.


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## YMICrazy (May 25, 2011)

I for one welcome this canon pairing as I did not want Naruto to end up with Sakura


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## Deshi Basara (May 25, 2011)

As a NaruHina fan im quite happy.The possibility of NaruSaku had me worried there for a little 100 chaps


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## MasterSitsu (May 25, 2011)

perhaps but It does put things into perspective for those feverishly arguing that Sakura is over Sasuke and on to Naruto.


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## Sasukethe7thHokage (May 25, 2011)

*Why is.... NO HOW CAN she be in love with sasuke?*

Seriously sasuke when he was ''Good'' Didnt even want to be bothered with her anti hero sasuke at the beginning of part 2 would have badly injured her and nothing in the world would bring Evil sasuke more pleasure then to kill her.... 


her entire relationship with sasuke has been ONE SIDED he never loved or cared for her and now he hates her and yet she still runs around saying she loves him.... i mean come on whats up with that? Lol


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## Yagami1211 (May 25, 2011)

Love is blind. Even IRL.


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## goldendriger (May 25, 2011)

Because shes a desperate hung up whore? i think this was well known? =/
Honestly she reminds me of those women who stay with the guy who beats them, just an abused little puppy...funny though =P


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## gabzilla (May 25, 2011)

Evilene said:


> I love that gif.
> 
> Also, I agree...we should talk about KibaNeji more. .



Kiba is playing nurse and everything


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## PikaCheeka (May 25, 2011)

Sasukethe7thHokage said:


> *Seriously sasuke when he was ''Good'' Didnt even want to be bothered with her* anti hero sasuke at the beginning of part 2 would have badly injured her and nothing in the world would bring Evil sasuke more pleasure then to kill her....
> 
> 
> her entire relationship with sasuke has been ONE SIDED he never loved or cared for her and now he hates her and yet she still runs around saying she loves him.... i mean come on whats up with that? Lol



Playing the devil's advocate here but her last memory of Sasuke was his saying "Thank you" to her, which is arguably the only sign of gratitude he has ever shown in the entire manga. Perhaps there was a reason for this timing.

I think saying that ANY Team 7 member NEVER loved or cared about another Team 7 member in the least is a great over-exaggeration. They all showed concern for one another at some point.



Yagami1211 said:


> Love is blind. Even IRL.



This, too.

I don't ever see anyone dissing Hinata for loving a guy who has ignored her ever since she nearly died saving his life.


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## xRenChi (May 25, 2011)

Why is Naruto so obsessed with Sasuke? 
Why does everyone care so much about Sasuke?
Must be his pheromones or some shit like that.


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## Bellville (May 25, 2011)

Sakura liking Naruto at this point would be too much too fast. Have fun rooting for an epilogue?

Sakura isn't over Sasuke yet. A person can't just turn feelings off because they _want_ to, so I can... not understand, but I can at least swallow that one. The biggest fear comes with the possibility that she'll try to get together with him in the end. Yes, she feels bad about liking him now, but once he's all better, nothing is guaranteed. And considering what a "realistic female" Sakura is.... urghh..

NH hasn't moved an inch. Surprise.


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## Chaelius (May 25, 2011)

The only thing this does is shut up the NaruSaku theories that:

1) The confession was even in the least bit truthful 
2) Sakura has been falling in love with Naruto
3) She was talking about Naruto and not Sasuke last chapter

Both SS and NH are still completely one-sided though, as they've always been.


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## Will Of Fire (May 25, 2011)

I think Kishi wants to make SS and NH canon.

Not that I care.


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## Skaddix (May 25, 2011)

Lol love how sakura took control.


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## son_michael (May 25, 2011)

So what this chapter shows is that Sakura is sad over Sasuke, she thought of him when the pairing fodder brought up romance


Ill be a freaken realist here, this isn't good for Naru Saku. Kishi is creating the possibility of Sakura ending up with Sasuke after he is redeemed( which we all know is gonna happen)


I think that Sakura cares for Naruto in a romantic way but always loses sight of that over sauske. 

I can see 3 possible outcome here

1. Sakura falls in love with Naruto when he's in danger of being killed. Sasuke becomes their friend

2. Sakura ends up with Sasuke after Naruto saves him. no clue where hinata will fit here

3. Sakura recalls why she's in love with Sasuke, it was the time at the bench when he was so kind to her bla bla but somehow she find sout that was really Naruto and she realizes its been Naruto she loved all along.


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## Selva (May 25, 2011)

An obligatory lol NS comment here  yes, she loves Naruto alright and her confession was genuine alright and she's oh so over Sasuke alright 
I'm seriously laughing my ass off right now XD


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## santanico (May 25, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> Kishimoto will continue trolling, though. Nothing is certain.
> 
> Also KibaNeji is hot



That's cute 

all I gotta say is... rest in peace narsak


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## uchia2000 (May 25, 2011)

After this chapter I'm convinced that Sakura will always love Sasuke no matter what. I can't see her loving anyone else not after so long.


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## santanico (May 25, 2011)

PikaCheeka said:


> I don't ever see anyone dissing Hinata for loving a guy who has ignored her ever since she nearly died saving his life.


pfft, like that's going to stop 'em.


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## Bellville (May 25, 2011)

son_michael said:


> 1. Sakura falls in love with Naruto when he's in danger of being killed. Sasuke becomes their friend


Going by this, Naruto is in love with Hinata because she got her ass beat by Pain, so Sakura loses either way.



> 2. Sakura ends up with Sasuke after Naruto saves him. no clue* where hinata will fit here*


as the rebound.



> 3. Sakura recalls why she's in love with Sasuke, it was the time at the bench when he was so kind to her bla bla but somehow she find sout that was really Naruto and she realizes its been Naruto she loved all along.


assuming it's just that easy to switch feelings from one person to another..?


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## Turrin (May 25, 2011)

The fact of the matter is we were told absolutely nothing new this chapter. Everyone should have already known that Sakura was in love with Sasuke still. This will not change until Naruto keeps his promise to Sakura and brings Sasuke back, at which point she will fall in love with Naruto and it will be up to Naruto to decide if he still wants to be with Sakura or wants to be with Hinata.


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## Chaelius (May 25, 2011)

> Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 56 (25 members and 31 guests)


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## gabzilla (May 25, 2011)

PikaCheeka said:


> I don't ever see anyone dissing Hinata for loving a guy who has ignored her ever since she nearly died saving his life.



Seriously?


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## Crows (May 25, 2011)

Lover fodder even wished her luck. Will she pull off the miracle?


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## PikaCheeka (May 25, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> Seriously?



In comparison to the amount of shit Sakura gets, it's negligible so I don't consider it very much.

I don't hold it against either girl though. One of the major themes of the manga is that love and bonds persevere through all trials.


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## Tonga1 (May 25, 2011)

iwas NS fan but I'm not blind NH is now more "cute couple" the problems is hinata with her 0 development.
kishimoto once said that only 1 couple will be cannon, which relieves me


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## Albrecht (May 25, 2011)

I used to find the allegations of Kishi being a committed troll in his own right to be far-fetched, but the SakuSasu, Naruhina, insert-name-combinations ad infinitum seems to be definitive proof that the man not only engages in pure trolling, but does so at an unprecedented level.


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## MovingFlash415 (May 25, 2011)

Yes, Kishimoto is advocating that Hinata's love for Naruto is well and alive.

Yes, Kishimoto is also advocating that Sakura loves a very abusive man.  If he concludes that she _deserves_ a _relationship_ with said abuser, I might seriously write him a complaint.


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## gabzilla (May 25, 2011)

PikaCheeka said:


> In comparison to the amount of shit Sakura gets, it's negligible so I don't consider it very much.
> 
> I don't hold it against either girl though. One of the major themes of the manga is that love and bonds persevere through all trials.



I agree Sakura gets more heat, but the difference is not that big.

I don't hold it against them because Kishimoto sucks at developing them, he'll never give them a chance.


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## son_michael (May 25, 2011)

Turrin said:


> The fact of the matter is we were told absolutely nothing new this chapter. Everyone should have already known that Sakura was in love with Sasuke still. This will not change until Naruto keeps his promise to Sakura and brings Sasuke back, at which point she will fall in love with Naruto and it will be up to Naruto to decide if he still wants to be with Sakura or wants to be with Hinata.



If Sakura's feelings remain the same until the war ends and Sasuke is redeemed...how the heck is she suddenly just gonna drop her feelings for him and realize she loves Naruto?

Sakura needs to be where Naruto is, see him almost die and THATS how she will really fall in love with him.


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## Bellville (May 25, 2011)

PikaCheeka said:


> In comparison to the amount of shit Sakura gets, it's negligible so I don't consider it very much.
> 
> I don't hold it against either girl though. One of the major themes of the manga is that love and bonds persevere through all trials.


I'd give less shit to Hinata on the principle that Naruto never betrayed nor tried to kill her and has actually been nice to her when they _did_ interact, stalker crush or not.


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## Skeith (May 25, 2011)

I'm trying to figure out that flashback Hinata had of Naruto this chapters was from an earlier chapter.

I'm not hating Sakura for her feelings for Naruto and/or Sasuke, but my problem with her is why she "loves" them.


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## MovingFlash415 (May 25, 2011)

Sasukethe7thHokage said:


> her entire relationship with sasuke has been ONE SIDED he never loved or cared for her and now he hates her and yet she still runs around saying she loves him.... i mean come on whats up with that? Lol



I wouldn't call it "running around".  I would call it sitting and moping and seriously wishing she DIDN'T love him anymore.  Did you see how unhappy she looked when she was thinking about him?  Even Naruto smiles occasionally when he thinks about Sasuke.


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## son_michael (May 25, 2011)

Skeith said:


> I'm trying to figure out that flashback Hinata had of Naruto this chapters was from an earlier chapter.
> 
> I'm not hating Sakura for her feelings for Naruto and/or Sasuke, but my problem with her is why she "loves" them.



well its obvious why she loves Naruto, sasuke on the other hand...


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## Corvida (May 25, 2011)

> son_michael said:
> 
> 
> > I can see 3 possible outcome here
> ...


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## Judecious (May 25, 2011)

comes  in and see so many haters
leaves


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## MYJC (May 25, 2011)

Nothing surprising, really, but at this point it think it's blatantly obvious that Sakura will NEVER have any sort of real romantic feelings for Naruto.

Just not gonna happen. That ship has sank.


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## Kiss (May 25, 2011)

All I can say is: RIP NaruSaku


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## Skeith (May 25, 2011)

son_michael said:


> well its obvious why she loves Naruto, sasuke on the other hand...



Sakura loving Naruto?

Base on her confession, if what she say is true, is that she loves Naruto because he a hero and popular now.


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## Sagitta (May 25, 2011)

He's going the way of the Hyuuga! No, seriously it's up in the air still but I think Sakura will pull Sasuke from the DARKNESSS!! With help from Naruto's tnj. Sakura and Naruto is an ugly pairing imo. No love for Naru-Saku....  believe it.


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## Seto Kaiba (May 25, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> Seriously?



As the owner of the ANH even I can say that was a ridiculous comparison.


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## son_michael (May 25, 2011)

Skeith said:


> Sakura loving Naruto?
> 
> Base on her confession, if what she say is true, is that she loves Naruto because he a hero and popular now.



how about the part where she blushes when she says he was always there for her?

Anyway I wasn't even referring to the confession. Sakura obviously loves Naruto(and I'm speaking non romantically right now) because of all the shit he's done for her since part 1.


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## Dokiz1 (May 25, 2011)

Kiss said:


> All I can say is: RIP NaruSaku



You can always wish but it won't make your shitty pairing closer to canon though.


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## Bellville (May 25, 2011)

NaruSaku is not even worth entertaining now.. seriously. I feel like crying for those drowning in Denial.


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## son_michael (May 25, 2011)

Corvida said:


> > Amazing.
> >
> > No really, this is amazing.
> 
> ...


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## Ryoi (May 25, 2011)

Bee x Tsunade is coming!

But really, it's not surprising that Sakura still loves Sasuke. I don't see that changing any time soon...


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## Seto Kaiba (May 25, 2011)

PikaCheeka said:


> I don't hold it against either girl though. One of the major themes of the manga is that love and bonds persevere through all trials.



You are warping the theme between Sasuke and Naruto for Sakura's sake. I hate each of the bonds, but I'm not gonna act like they're the same. There really is no defending this, it makes her look absolutely pathetic. No one is saying she has to stop caring for Sasuke, but she'd look a hell of a lot more dignified if she let go of those romantic prospects. 

While I don't like the idea of NaruHina and think little of Hinata's character, it is NOTHING in comparison to Sakura continuing to pine after Sasuke. Sakura's crush is *degrading* to her character. Especially considering what just happened between them. It's not a beautiful example of love and bonds prevailing. It's just pathetic.


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## Skeith (May 25, 2011)

Seto Kaiba said:


> As the owner of the ANH even I can say that was a ridiculous comparison.



Now this is saying something.


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## Fourangers (May 25, 2011)

Bellville said:


> NaruSaku is not even worth entertaining now.. seriously. I feel like crying for those drowning in Denial.



*sigh* Just you wait until we have a flashback or anything like that with Naruto thinking about Sakura and how he'd be happy seeing her again. 



Seto Kaiba said:


> You are warping the theme between Sasuke and Naruto for Sakura's sake. I hate each of the bonds, but I'm not gonna act like they're the same. There really is no defending this, it makes her look absolutely pathetic. No one is saying she has to stop caring for Sasuke, but she'd look a hell of a lot more dignified if she let go of those romantic prospects.
> 
> While I don't like the idea of NaruHina and think little of Hinata's character, it is NOTHING in comparison to Sakura continuing to pine after Sasuke. Especially considering what just happened between them. It's not a beautiful example of love and bonds prevailing. It's just pathetic.



Sakura even feels ashamed for thinking about Sasuke. She doesn't feel happy for having those romantic feelings, she makes a sad face from remembering him.

It's unlike Hinata, as much as I hate NaruHina (sort of), at least Hinata remembers Naruto smiling her back and uses as a support to persevere in this war.


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## Tyrannos (May 25, 2011)

I'll be honest, this chapter actually put doubt in my mind that NS could happen.  Not because of Sakura thinking about Sasuke, but by what that confession guy's said.

*And you know what?  Let Sakura end up with Sasuke!*    She rather loves a guy who betrayed their friends and turned his back on the village, who never loved her, and tried to kill her twice.   Forget the guy who bent his saving her ass for 3 years, who loved her for true self.   Once Sasuke is saved by Naruto, all this would be a thing of the past, right? 

As for Hinata, she at least shows she loves Naruto and even risked her life.   Sure they hardly had the chance to talk, but action speaks louder than words!


Then again this could very well be another one of Kishi's classic troll jobs that typically accompanies pairing moments.   One chapter it's this direction, another chapter is in another direction.   After all, Kishimoto is a master of romance.


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## Skeith (May 25, 2011)

son_michael said:


> how about the part where she blushes when she says he was always there for her?
> 
> Anyway I wasn't even referring to the confession*. Sakura obviously loves Naruto(and I'm speaking non romantically right now)* because of all the shit he's done for her since part 1.


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## Kurama (May 25, 2011)

Well that puts the "only Sakura knows her own feelings" NS defense to rest.

So.....confirmation that Sasuke is the ONE Sakura is in love with. Yet another reference to Hinata's crush on Naruto. In a single chapter. That's gotta sting just a little bit. But if you wanna try to soothe it with your "NH and SS are still one-sided!" cream be my guest.

As for the "Kishi be trollin, he's gonna uplift NaruSaku again in a few chapters" bs, um......can't really come back from a confirmation that the one Sakura is in love with is NOT Naruto after all of part 2 apparently supposed to have showcased Sakura's "gradual, mutual " growth of romantic feelings with him.

There's just no coming back from this outside of a really, really hard asspull.


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## mayumi (May 25, 2011)

narusasu will win in the end. girls left crying


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## Fay (May 25, 2011)

And as of now after 540 chapters all main pairings are still painfully one sided with no hint of reciprocation.


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## Hitt (May 25, 2011)

kyuubi425 said:


> Well that puts the "only Sakura knows her own feelings" NS defense to rest.
> 
> So.....confirmation that Sasuke is the ONE Sakura is in love with. Yet another reference to Hinata's crush on Naruto. In a single chapter. That's gotta sting just a little bit. But if you wanna try to soothe it with your "NH and SS are still one-sided!" cream be my guest.



Um, you do realize those are some really huge problems if you want to ship those respective pairings, right?

This chapter confirms NOTHING that wasn't already known.  You want some sinking ships?  How about *Naruto thinking about Hinata*, or *Sasuke thinking about Sakura?*

Those are still in the lands of fanfiction, where they'll likely remain.



> There's just no coming back from this outside of a really, really hard asspull.


The manga of asspulls, Naruto?  I surely think it's possible.


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## yukiko♥ (May 25, 2011)

HAHAHA that piece of a shit pairing aka NS is dead now. 
I won't have to read the posts of NS fans who are in denial anymore. 

I feel so relieved. Naruto deserves much better than Suckura bitch anyway.


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## Crows (May 25, 2011)

Fay said:


> And as of now after 540 chapters all main pairings are still painfully one sided with no hint of reciprocation.


In fairness to Sasuke and Naruto, they really have tons of other pressing issues.

Much more serious stuff.


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## son_michael (May 25, 2011)

Tyrannos said:


> I'll be honest, this chapter actually put doubt in my mind that NS could happen.  Not because of Sakura thinking about Sasuke, but by what that confession guy's said.
> 
> *And you know what?  Let Sakura end up with Sasuke!*    She rather loves a guy who betrayed their friends and turned his back on the village, who never loved her, and tried to kill her twice.   Forget the guy who bent his saving her ass for 3 years, who loved her for true self.   Once Sasuke is saved by Naruto, all this would be a thing of the past, right?
> 
> ...




I'm right with you bro, this chapter has seriously made me consider that Sakura will end up with Sasuke. It is a definite possibility. That said, its also a definite possibility that she will still end up with Naruto.


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## Fourangers (May 25, 2011)

So, basically it's this:

Naruto --> SasukeSakura

Sakura --> Sasuke

Hinata --> Naruto

Sasuke --> revenge

Anything new guise? Anything? Nope.

Kishimoto, would you PLEASE stop reviving those horrible pairing wars? Because I'm getting tired of it.


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## Seto Kaiba (May 25, 2011)

Dammit, sideshippers...

This chapter really doesn't land a blow on any pairing, and even if it did, why are people celebrating considering the circumstances? Not to mention, I can't help but be reminded of when people jumped the gun on these things.

It'd be a Pyrrhic victory, regardless.


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## うずまきナルト (May 25, 2011)

I'm not really into this "pairings" crap, but I'm all for NarutoxHinata. Sasuke and Sakura on the other hand... I'm not really into that. I'd prefer to see Rock LeexSakura and Sasuke with some known/unknown badass kunoichi, or some girl with red hair and glasses.


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## Skeith (May 25, 2011)

Hitt said:


> Um, you do realize those are some really huge problems if you want to ship those respective pairings, right?
> 
> This chapter confirms NOTHING that wasn't already known.  You want some sinking ships?  How about *Naruto thinking about Hinata*, or *Sasuke thinking about Sakura?*



Naruto thinking about Hinata?

*Spoiler*: __ 








Sure it not "romantic" but you weren't asking about that.


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## Will Of Fire (May 25, 2011)

Dokiz1 said:


> You can always wish but it won't make your shitty pairing closer to canon though.



Yours got shot down this chapter though. This time for real.



Ryoi said:


> Bee x Tsunade is coming!



Fuck yeah.


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## gabzilla (May 25, 2011)

Seto Kaiba said:


> As the owner of the ANH even I can say that was a ridiculous comparison.



Woah, that's saying something.

The ""seriously" was for two different things, actually.

1) people do bash Hinata for loving a guy who ignores her

2) not comparable, at all. 

In any case all the main pairings look like shit, there's nothing to defend. Sakura loves a psycho, Hinata loves somebody who doesn't know she exists, Naruto loves somebody who apparently will never return his feelings hey that can apply to both Sakura and Sasuke!.



Fourangers said:


> Sakura <--> Hinata


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## Skeith (May 25, 2011)

yukiko♥ said:


> HAHAHA that piece of a shit pairing aka NS is dead now.
> I won't have to read the posts of NS fans who are in denial anymore.
> 
> I feel so relieved. Naruto deserves much better than Suckura bitch anyway.



Now, now.

You can hate the paring, but respect the people who chose it. 

I'm not arguing with ANH owner here.


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## Hitt (May 25, 2011)

Skeith said:


> Naruto thinking about Hinata?
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> ...



I'm talking about now, 100+ chapters later.  Doing that by itself would mean a LOT.

Then I would start taking the NH position seriously.  As of now, it's still less likely than even SS.


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## mayumi (May 25, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> Woah, that's saying something.
> 
> The ""seriously" was for two different things, actually.
> 
> ...



you think sasuke won't or never has returned naruto's feelings


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## Lelouch71 (May 25, 2011)

lol you would think some of you pairing fans would learn. Kishi is just going to troll you once again. Either way Killerbee x Tsunade was good.


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## Megilien (May 25, 2011)

Hitt said:


> Um, you do realize those are some really huge problems if you want to ship those respective pairings, right?



Uuuuuhm. No. Shipping a pathetic, so-called pairing that keeps getting bitch slapped and having its arguments debunked means having HUGE problems. Denial is bliss, huh?

Sayonara, NarSak. I'm sure as hell not gonna miss seeing your sorry ass again


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## Skeith (May 25, 2011)

Hitt said:


> I'm talking about now, 100+ chapters later.  Doing that by itself would mean a LOT.
> 
> Then I would start taking the NH position seriously.  As of now, it's still less likely than even SS.



The first image was from ch.441. 99 chapter ago.

So since it still under the 100+, by your logic it still counts.


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## Tonga1 (May 25, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> Woah, that's saying something.
> 
> The ""seriously" was for two different things, actually.
> 
> ...



the psycho option won the prize but is just my opinion


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## Dokiz1 (May 25, 2011)

Will Of Fire said:


> Yours got shot down this chapter though. This time for real.



How? nothing changed.


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## Hitt (May 25, 2011)

Megilien said:


> Uuuuuhm. No. Shipping a pathetic, so-called pairing that keeps getting bitch slapped and having its arguments debunked means having HUGE problems. Denial is bliss, huh?



You know the most hilarious part about your comment just now?

You can use it to apply to any of the "big 3" pairings.


----------



## gabzilla (May 25, 2011)

mayumi said:


> you think sasuke won't or never has returned naruto's feelings



At the moment? LOL no. He hates everything.


----------



## Skeith (May 25, 2011)

Dokiz1 said:


> How? nothing changed.



agree.

The only thing worse then denial people are people who jump the gun.


----------



## AoshiKun (May 25, 2011)

I read Naruto since 2004 and during these 7 years I saw a lot of arguments about pairings. With my experience I say that *if* there is going to have couples, they'll be SasuSaku and NaruHina.

In chapter 3 we learned Sakura loves Sasuke and passed 537 chapters and that feeling didn't change a bit and guess what... it *never* will. We and our moms know Sasuke will become a good guy in the end so is the most likely couple to happen.

Since the beginning we also learned Naruto loves Sakura however his feelings seems to be changing in the last 100 chapters or so while Hinata keeps loving him.

I *bet* with anyone that Kishimoto wouldn't go this far with Sakura loving Sasuke and Hinata loving Naruto if in the end it will happen a NaruSaku.


----------



## Will Of Fire (May 25, 2011)

Dokiz1 said:


> How? nothing changed.



Eh, it doesn't look good for NS. It has been confirmed that Sakura still loves Sasuke after the murder attempts and I can't see her changing her feelings so late in the manga. If she still hasn't after more than 500 chapters, when will she?

NH got a moment too. It's like Kishi's tyring to tell us what he plans to do. 

I'm not even sure if Naruto still loves Sakura after what she did to him and after his famous line 'I hate people who lie to themselves.' Maybe this was Kishi's way of telling us that Naruto moved on. Just sayin.


----------



## lucky (May 25, 2011)

Yagami1211 said:


> No, OP, nooooooooooooooooooo.
> 
> What the hell did you do ?
> 
> You opened the pandora box !



it's almost as bad as superman vs. goku.


----------



## Tyrannos (May 25, 2011)

kyuubi425 said:


> Well that puts the "only Sakura knows her own feelings" NS defense to rest.
> 
> So.....confirmation that Sasuke is the ONE Sakura is in love with. Yet another reference to Hinata's crush on Naruto. In a single chapter. That's gotta sting just a little bit. But if you wanna try to soothe it with your "NH and SS are still one-sided!" cream be my guest.
> 
> ...



Hypocritical for you to say that Kyuubi, you said the same exact thing when Sakura hugged Naruto after the fight with Pain and later when she "confessed" to Naruto, then cheering the next when it was revealed to be a fake one.

But hey feel free to love unconvincing romances.   "Hey I know you was just angry and tried to kill me, lets forget about it and restore the Uchiha clan!"  or "Sorry I ignored your feelings throughout the manga, Hinata.   But its the ending that counts right?"


So go ahead and make NS has officially lost.  Even people on your side are smart enough to admit to Kishi's trolling as well, because those who been fighting in the pairing wars know its one way one moment, and the opposite the next.   After all, how long as it been since you guys last celebrated a NH victory?   Chapter 437 was it?


----------



## Garfield (May 25, 2011)

Will Of Fire said:


> Yours got shot down this chapter though. This time for real.
> 
> 
> 
> Fuck yeah.


Pairing shippings continue even after manga ends after an otherwise conclusion, what are you talking about


----------



## Skeith (May 25, 2011)

Tyrannos said:


> Hypocritical for you to say that Kyuubi, you said the same exact thing when Sakura hugged Naruto after the fight with Pain and later when she "confessed" to Naruto, then cheering the next when it was revealed to be a fake one.
> 
> But hey feel free to love unconvincing romances.   "Hey I know you was just angry and tried to kill me, lets forget about it and restore the Uchiha clan!"  or "Sorry I ignored your feelings throughout the manga, Hinata.   But its the ending that counts right?"
> 
> ...



That was a fun week. 

But it still Sakura loves Sasuke
Hinata loves Naruto

Naruto and Sasuke......yeah.


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## Will Of Fire (May 25, 2011)

adee said:


> Pairing shippings continue even after manga ends after an otherwise conclusion, what are you talking about



You're right. I was being too optimistic there.


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## Tonga1 (May 25, 2011)

AoshiKun said:


> I read Naruto since 2004 and during these 7 years I saw a lot of arguments about pairings. With my experience I say that *if* there is going to have couples, they'll be SasuSaku and NaruHina.
> 
> In chapter 3 we learned Sakura loves Sasuke and passed 537 chapters and that feeling didn't change a bit and guess what... it *never* will. We and our moms know Sasuke will become a good guy in the end so is the most likely couple to happen.
> 
> ...



manga proof plz


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## Bellville (May 25, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> Naruto loves somebody who apparently will never return his feelings hey that can apply to both Sakura and Sasuke!.


I'll vouch for Sakura, but you are sorely mistaken about Sasuke or so help me I will rip Kishi a new asshole.



Megilien said:


> Uuuuuhm. No. Shipping a pathetic, so-called pairing that keeps getting bitch slapped and having its arguments debunked means having HUGE problems. Denial is bliss, huh?


*Sees SS in sig*



 *bites tongue*


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## Hitt (May 25, 2011)

Will Of Fire said:


> You're right. I was being too optimistic there.



Pairing tards can deny _anything_.

I've seen Keiichi/Belldandy deniers.  Yeah, even that.


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## yukiko♥ (May 25, 2011)

^They already do. Examples are in this very thread.



Will Of Fire said:


> Eh, it doesn't look good for NS. It has been confirmed that Sakura still loves Sasuke after the murder attempts and I can't see her changing her feelings so late in the manga. *If she still hasn't after more than 500 chapters, when will she?*
> 
> NH got a moment too. It's like Kishi's tyring to tell us what he plans to do.
> 
> I'm not even sure if Naruto still loves Sakura after what she did to him and after his famous line 'I hate people who lie to themselves.' Maybe this was Kishi's way of telling us that Naruto moved on. Just sayin.





Maybe she will love Naruto after another 500 chapters.


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## Skeith (May 25, 2011)

Tonga1 said:


> manga proof plz



He still cares about her, but he has, in a sense, stop going for her.


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## gabzilla (May 25, 2011)

Bellville said:


> I'll vouch for Sakura, but you are sorely mistaken about Sasuke or so help me I will rip Kishi a new asshole.



Kishimoto may tease, but I doubt he has the balls to make it two-sided


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## Tyrannos (May 25, 2011)

Skeith said:


> That was a fun week.
> 
> But it still Sakura loves Sasuke
> Hinata loves Naruto
> ...



Yep, it goes on and on and on.


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## Megilien (May 25, 2011)

Bellville said:


> *Sees SS in sig*
> 
> 
> 
> *bites tongue*



Be my guest. If thinking I'm in denial about SS works out for you, go right ahead


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## Sorin (May 25, 2011)

Now Bee x Tsunade x Raikage is where's the shit's at.


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## Angevelinka (May 25, 2011)

Tyrannos said:


> I'll be honest, this chapter actually put doubt in my mind that NS could happen.  Not because of Sakura thinking about Sasuke, but by what that confession guy's said.
> 
> *And you know what?  Let Sakura end up with Sasuke!*    She rather loves a guy who betrayed their friends and turned his back on the village, who never loved her, and tried to kill her twice.   Forget the guy who bent his saving her ass for 3 years, who loved her for true self.   Once Sasuke is saved by Naruto, all this would be a thing of the past, right?
> 
> ...



I agree with this. Seriously, if nothingm even such atrocies can change her mind then it's obviously meant to be for her (Sakura) and if she want to be the beaten wife, then it's her choice. I think that with all this she is a person who has to burn her hand to know how being burned is awful, no matter how many times others showed her how it looks or told her how it feels like. But then it will be too late for her.


On the other hand, with reading this manga for so long, I think that Kishi may not be able to write a proper romance, but that doesn't mean he cannot try to play with us. That's why we have many non-canon things intended, including slashers' wet dreams and Sasuke/Sai. After all, he is so popular he doesn't have to worry about sale's drop anymore.

But then, it would be quite rare for main hero to not end up with main heroine. It happens (sometimes, no spoilering to anything) but generally from the first episode you know that main hero gets main heroine. It would be interesting but I'm still skeptic if Kishimoto will do it if he can't make Neji evil or kill off anyone.



Fay said:


> And as of now after 540 chapters all main pairings are still painfully one sided with no hint of reciprocation.



...and this is also true.



Hitt said:


> Um, you do realize those are some really huge problems if you want to ship those respective pairings, right?
> This chapter confirms NOTHING that wasn't already known.  You want some sinking ships?  How about *Naruto thinking about Hinata*, or *Sasuke thinking about Sakura?*
> 
> Those are still in the lands of fanfiction, where they'll likely remain.
> ...



And that's the problem why doesn't the romance move forward. But then, if Sasuke and Naruto would start thinking about the girls, with how the author writes it would probably become a match that would lit the forest in the fire of pairing wars. Even without it we have NaruSaku vs. NaruHina vs. SasuSaku vs. SasuNaru (yes, this too).

So... let's not forget that so far the only true estabilished pairing is Asuma/Kurenai.

So, to sum it up (it's only one minute long and text on the end is smart enough to sum it up for me):


*Spoiler*: __ 



this


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## Skeith (May 25, 2011)

Tyrannos said:


> Yep, it goes on and on and on.



This is our fate for opening that box.


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## Turrin (May 25, 2011)

son_michael said:


> If Sakura's feelings remain the same until the war ends and Sasuke is redeemed...how the heck is she suddenly just gonna drop her feelings for him and realize she loves Naruto?
> 
> Sakura needs to be where Naruto is, see him almost die and THATS how she will really fall in love with him.



I said Sakura's feelings will change when Naruto keeps his promise its so painfully obvious that it hurts my brain that people don't see it. I never said how this will happen, i'm just stating that it will happen and it will happen at that time in the manga


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## Nuuskis (May 25, 2011)

I'm not that much into that shipping shit, but this chapter sure showed who those girls love.


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## Seto Kaiba (May 25, 2011)

Nachrael said:


> I'm not that much into that shipping shit, but this chapter sure showed who those girls love.



Yet nothing about the guys.


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## Tyrannos (May 25, 2011)

Angevelinka said:


> I agree with this. Seriously, if nothingm even such atrocies can change her mind then it's obviously meant to be for her (Sakura) and if she want to be the beaten wife, then it's her choice. I think that with all this she is a person who has to burn her hand to know how being burned is awful, no matter how many times others showed her how it looks or told her how it feels like. But then it will be too late for her.
> 
> 
> On the other hand, with reading this manga for so long, I think that Kishi may not be able to write a proper romance, but that doesn't mean he cannot try to play with us. That's why we have many non-canon things intended, including slashers' wet dreams and Sasuke/Sai. After all, he is so popular he doesn't have to worry about sale's drop anymore.
> ...



Well Kishimoto did admit a long time ago he sucked at romance.  

But lets not forget Minato X Kushina, and I think Jiraiya x Tsunade was pretty close to being a definite pairing as well.   



Skeith said:


> This is our fate for opening that box.



Yep!  Never know, there may never be a resolution to the pairings and this will go on forever and ever and ever.


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## HolyHands (May 25, 2011)

Kishi just loves playing up the drama, doesn't he? He could have easily had NS develop naturally after Yamato's words, but instead he has to keep Sakura as a beaten housewife, and crap all over NS with the fake confession.

I wouldn't mind these romantic hints if the actual relationships weren't so disfunctional and underdeveloped. Sakura practically lost all the cool points she earned in this chapter by confirming that she's still in love with Sasuke. Well at least she's "realistic".


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## NarutoIzDaMan (May 25, 2011)

I've supported Narusaku for almost 2 years now because they DO have the most "positive" development out of the 3 pairings and actually have a solid friendship as a foundation for a nurturing relationship (unlike SS and NH).That being said, I lost a TON of respect for Sakura this chapter because I thought that she had FINALLY learned her lesson during the Kage Summit Arc but as we all found out this chapter she clearly didn't. 

I still believe that NaruSaku is endgame when it's all said and done because Naruto IS the main character and will most likely get everything he wants and desires in the end (including Sakura's love). However, it's pretty much a guarantee that IF it does become canon it won't happen in a satisfactory way. I will still support NaruSaku but I can honestly say that I really don't like it now as much as I did in the past.

Let me take it a step further, as of right now, Naruto deserves much better than Sakura because she has simply taken him for granted way too many times. If she can't fully appreciate Naruto for who he is and what he has done for her then I actually wouldn't mind Naruto moving on with someone else. I've said this before and I'll say it again - IF Sakura chooses to be with Naruto in the end it will be because she will realize that he is the one who TRULY makes her happy and not Sasuke, but she has to figure that out on her own.
__________________


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## yukiko♥ (May 25, 2011)

That girl won't love Naruto in that way. That bitch drools over Sasuke's looks. She's like those stupid girls who want the cocks of bad boys who treat them coldly.

Sakura is a detestable girl. The author himself has described her like that. Does a detestable girl fall in love with a nice guy like Naruto? NO.


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## Skeith (May 25, 2011)

Seto Kaiba said:


> Yet nothing about the guys.



We boys always have problem with our feelings.


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## santanico (May 25, 2011)

yukiko♥ said:


> That girl won't love Naruto in that way. That bitch drools over Sasuke's looks. She's like those stupid girls who want the cocks of bad boys who treat them coldly.
> 
> Sakura is a detestable girl. The author himself has described her like that. Does a detestable girl fall in love with a nice guy like Naruto? NO.



Your post is detestable 
No but really, if she loved Naruto, it would've been evident by now, but that's not what's happening nor is it going too


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## Bellville (May 25, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> Kishimoto may tease, but I doubt he has the balls to make it two-sided


Assuming there isn't any homolust to begin with and that two-sided means begrudging bffs for lyfe and beyond, then I have no doubts.

This manga is not shounen-ai, gabz, if that's what you're implying.



Megilien said:


> Be my guest. If thinking I'm in denial about SS works out for you, go right ahead


I just think it's funny to so passionately bash NS when you've got something like that in your sig. Unless you've conceded to the idea that the pairing is bad news bears for Sakura and ship it for whatever sadistic pleasure you may get out of it.


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## sumany (May 25, 2011)

narusaku got what it wanted.a confirmation from sakura herself.



yukiko♥ said:


> That girl won't love Naruto in that way. That bitch drools over Sasuke's looks. She's like those stupid girls who want the cocks of bad boys who treat them coldly.
> 
> Sakura is a detestable girl. The author himself has described her like that. Does a detestable girl fall in love with a nice guy like Naruto? NO.



i don't know why but this post made me laugh.


----------



## WraithX959 (May 25, 2011)

I'm so loving this right now.


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## Darkopps (May 25, 2011)

Honestly the relationships/pairings reminds me of dragaonball/dragonball Z. 

In Dragonball, Bulma and Goku were the main male and female protagonist, but as the series progressed Bulma became less relevant and Goku/Bulma's relationship as friends (brother/sister type love) was clear. Goku eventually gets together with Chi-Chi (side-character), who had a crush on Goku since Childhood and Bulma does her own thing with Vegeta in Z. 

In Naruto, its a little different as Naruto crushed on Sakura. But ultimately I think its the same type of ending where Naruto ends up Hinata (not the female lead) and Sakura ends up with someone else (most likely Sasuke). This may be the beginning of Kish putting the pairing stuff to bed as he focuses on the huge battles to come.


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## Mr Horrible (May 25, 2011)

Starr said:


> Your post is detestable
> No but really, if she loved Naruto, it would've been evident by now, but that's not what's happening nor is it going too



Your post is detestable 
No but really, if he loved Hinata, it would've been evident by now, but that's not what's happening nor is it going too 



So, building on that we have Sakura looking sad/ashamed about her lingering feelings for Sasuke. Tell me, which pairing looks the most likely to dissolve?

Edit: It saddens to me admit I didn't notice it'd work even better in regards to Sasuke and Sakura.


----------



## Turrin (May 25, 2011)

Here's my argument about the pairings.

1. Just how many Manga's or Anime's have you guys read where the Main Hero (Naruto) does not end up or is at least hinted at ending up with the Main Heroin (Sakura)? I'll give some examples, but don't read if you don't want to be spoiled:


*Spoiler*: __ 



A. YuYu Hakusho oo
B. Flame of Recca
C. Kekkeshi
D. Bakuman
E. Full Metal Alchemist
F. Inyuyasha
G. The Familiar of Zero
H. GE 
I. Angel Beats
J. Pysren
K. Etc... (Believe me I could go on)




The Main Hero and Main Heroin ending up together is one of the biggest cliches in manga/anime and while their are a few manga/anime were this doesn't happen, there is usually a pretty fundamental reason for that. For example Bulma doesn't end up with Goku and the fundamental reason for that is Bulma was in her teens when she met Goku while he was just a kid. 

There is no fundamental reason like that, that Sakura and Naruto can't get together. You could say that Sakura being in love with Sasuke is such a reason, but honestly the whole love triangle thing, just fits in with the cliche of the hero ending up with heroin even more so. For example:
*Spoiler*: __ 



 Berserk and Tordara 




Now their are some manga/anime where the main hero and the main heroin do not end up together, for reason extending beyond the fundamental things like age, but usually these are very in-depth romance mangas/anime were the author is trying to convey a clear message to readers through the romances that developed throughout the story. Kishimoto is clearly not the type to tell a story like this, rather he's the type that would gladly throw sense and reason to the wayside to write a cliche.

2. The entire manga is about the Main Hero (Naruto) obtaining his goals through hard work and determination. If he didn't get Sakura's affections it wouldn't make sense with the story structure. Now you could say well Hinata and Sakura have been working hard to get Naruto/Sasuke respectively as well, but the honest truth is they aren't the main character, so their hard work is totally worthless.

So anyway how many mangas/anime's are their where the moral of the story is someone can accomplish anything with enough determination and hard work and the Main hero loves the Main heroin and they don't end up together? I have seen a-lot of anime/manga and the only example I can think off is 
*Spoiler*: __ 



School Rumble


. But in that case the entire story revolved around romance and the author was trying to convey a message through that romance to his readers.

So yeah if you want to believe in the 1/1,000th chance that Kishimoto is not going to go cliche on this story and actually have some deep meaning behind Naruto not ending up with Sakura, thats up to each reader to decide, but its clearly the far far less likely option at this point.


----------



## gabzilla (May 25, 2011)

The moral of the story is that if you work hard enough, you''ll get in the pants of the girl that doesn't love you. She'll give in eventually.

Gotcha



Bellville said:


> Assuming there isn't any homolust to begin with and that two-sided means begrudging bffs for lyfe and beyond, then I have no doubts.
> 
> This manga is not shounen-ai, gabz, if that's what you're implying.



Unfortunately.

It would solve so many problems.


----------



## HolyHands (May 25, 2011)

Turrin said:


> So yeah if you want to believe in the 1/1,000th chance that Kishimoto is not going to go cliche on this story and actually have some deep meaning behind Naruto not ending up with Sakura, thats up to each reader to decide, but its clearly the far far less likely option at this point.



It's not about deep meanings or anything, in fact it's probably the opposite. Romance is more or less unimportant in this manga, and doesn't really exist for any reason other than fanservice or drama. Even with all the screentime Sakura gets, her romantic feelings have never done much for the overall story. It's always been Naruto and Sasuke's relationship.

I feel that you're making a mistake by attaching Naruto's crush on Sakura as one of his goals that he will later achieve. Naruto's main goals have always been: become Hokage, get acknowledged as a person and not a monster, rescue Sasuke, and bring world peace. Getting into Sakura's panties has never been a major part of Naruto's character, so him not getting together with Sakura isn't going to hurt the story structure or whatever. It would only hurt the story structure if romance was actually important in Naruto, and it's not.

Also, remember that Naruto gets massive amounts of inspiration from Dragonball, and DB didn't go the "main guy gets main girl" route either.


----------



## Mr Horrible (May 25, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> The moral of the story is that if you work hard enough, you''ll get in the pants of the girl boy that doesn't love you. She'll He'll give in eventually.
> 
> Gotcha



Do you not see how ridiculous your post is? You bash NS for crime the other pairings are just as guilty of. Hell, at least NH and NS aren't trying to get in the pants of a genocidal maniac, but I guess that's overlooked considering how hawt he is.


----------



## Bellville (May 25, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> The moral of the story is that if you work hard enough, you''ll get in the pants of the girl that doesn't love you. She'll give in eventually.
> 
> Gotcha


Not a jab at you, but in general, as this brings up a good point: I'm wondering how this "feelings never change" thing will work out in NH's favor. If Sakura won't ever get over Sasuke after all that, why in the world would Naruto get over Sakura?

I never felt that Hinata was asking for a "response" from Naruto to begin with.. but from a shipper's standpoint, I'm not sure how reaffirming Hinata's already apparent feelings is going to help NH in the slightest, especially when there was no reason for those feelings to fade in the first place.





> Unfortunately.
> 
> It would solve so many problems.


It's obvious endgame. I just find it unfortunate that both Hinata and Sakura get caught up in the mess. They will always come in second best to their respective cowboys.


----------



## Kurama (May 25, 2011)

Hitt said:


> Um, you do realize those are some really huge problems if you want to ship those respective pairings, right?



The fact that the girls have actual concrete confirmed existing feelings for the boys is a problem? 



> This chapter confirms NOTHING that wasn't already known.


Tell that to the clowns last week that swore Sakura meant Naruto was the "someone else" and all the other arguments ripped this chapter.



> You want some sinking ships?  How about *Naruto thinking about Hinata*, or *Sasuke thinking about Sakura?*





Naruto has thought of Hinata. Credited her sacrifice as the trigger to his Raeg Above All Raeges at that. Plus, he's busy being run all over hearing prophecies and training and trying to end the cycle of hatred and whatcrap. What say you when he comes across her with nothing to distract his thoughts? His lack of thought towards her confession is evidently a delaying tactic anyway, that left room for all this current NaruSaku trolling.

Sasuke is currently batshit and its pretty damn evident he's gonna be redeemed. And well, good!Sasuke means.....




> Those are still in the lands of fanfiction, where they'll likely remain.



And where NaruSaku is CONFIRMED to remain.




> The manga of asspulls, Naruto?  I surely think it's possible.



Only if it benefits Sasuke, apparently.




Tyrannos said:


> Hypocritical for you to say that Kyuubi, you said the same exact thing when Sakura hugged Naruto after the fight with Pain and later when she "confessed" to Naruto, then cheering the next when it was revealed to be a fake one.




Hypocritical? How? You'll have to better explain yourself. The hug was pretty evidently platonic, completely devoid of any of the passion Sakura has previously shown towards the object of her affection, yknow, actual body contact and SOME kind of reaction from the person hugged. Sure, I would've enjoyed a Naruto-Hugging-Hinata-In-Relief moment, but fuck it, NH can get something greater down the line. The scene was meant to represent Naruto getting the acknowledgment he's been claiming he'd get since chapter 1. Sakura was more or less a measure of the villages acceptance. In the Failfession, it was blatantly obvious from the beginning she was talking out of her ass about just about everything [except for Naruto's ACTUAL non-shallow good points, which are simple fact but far from reason for her to fall for him apparently]. There was no "revelation" that it was a lie, it was evident in its execution. But of course NS found a loophole: "Nobody knows Sakura's feelings but herself!" And look what happened. And of course this leads to:


> But hey feel free to love unconvincing romances.   "Hey I know you was just angry and tried to kill me, lets forget about it and restore the Uchiha clan!"  or "Sorry I ignored your feelings throughout the manga, Hinata.   But its the ending that counts right?"



Awwwwwww innat cute.

Well, considering your skills at fanfiction, its understandable you lack the imagination and comprehension to get there'd be more to SS and NH confirmation than that. I'd go into detail but it would all be lost on you anyway.



> So go ahead and make NS has officially lost.  Even people on your side are smart enough to admit to Kishi's trolling as well, because those who been fighting in the pairing wars know its one way one moment, and the opposite the next.   After all, how long as it been since you guys last celebrated a NH victory?   Chapter 437 was it?



Kishi's level of trolling can't exceed outright stating the heroine's feelings lay with the NOT HERO 537 chapters after her appearance and supposed "gradual mutual" development with him.

And LOL. You say this like romance is a major focus, as though who loves who is so critical to the plot. The amount of chapters between moments don't matter when they're such better quality. and hell, With all that has gone down, in manga time its maybe been just a week or so at best since her confession and alot of heavy shit went down since then.


----------



## Garfield (May 25, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> The moral of the story is that if you work hard enough, you''ll get in the pants of the girl that doesn't love you. She'll give in eventually.
> 
> Gotcha



Don't spoil the hopes of losers like us by denying that


----------



## Seto Kaiba (May 25, 2011)

kyuubi425 said:


> The fact that the girls have actual concrete confirmed existing feelings for the boys is a problem?
> 
> 
> Tell that to the clowns last week that swore Sakura meant Naruto was the "someone else" and all the other arguments ripped this chapter.
> ...



This is how bad arguments can get when you just sideship shit. No one's feelings has changed, Naruto's included. Yet again, you deny that. You are basically doing the same thing you're blasting NS fans are doing. You are looking at moments the way you want to see them, and ignoring others that don't fit with how you want things. Naruto thought of Hinata, but just as Sakura hugging Naruto, that doesn't mean it was romantic or lends any credence to NaruHina happening.

Naruto is the main character, he's going to be more fleshed out in his motivations and there's also the thing about him putting many of his desires and goals secondary to saving Sasuke. Nothing has been affirmed either which way on a pairing matter. 

I think you should follow Skeith's advice, because you are really jumping the gun on this. AGAIN.

Furthermore, Sasuke's redemption =/= SasuSaku. That's Hiruto Uzumaki logic, and it's quite sad you'd only hope for that if only to help NH's chances. 

Also I have to laugh at the guy who made the "Hinata will help Naruto control Kyubi", and "Hinata will heal Naruto's pain as a jinchuriki" theories (if you could call them that) chiding another for outlandish expectations. You've made so many assertions in which nothing ever came out of it, so who are you to talk about that matter?


----------



## ShadowReij (May 25, 2011)

Status report: Aye, the ships being SS and NH are still as one sided as ever and NS is lying in the bottom of the sea. And Bee has spotted breasts on the horizon.

On a more serious note every member of team 7's feelings for Sasuke have remained the same so why would Sakura be the only exception to this. Plus  Naruto, Sakura, and Kakashi have all tried to kill the man in question and vice versa. So the whole he tried to kill them bit doesn't really fly. Plus, they're ninjas their choice of occupation does involve killing a specific targets or other ninja.


----------



## Tyrannos (May 25, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> The moral of the story is that if you work hard enough, you''ll get in the pants of the guy that doesn't love you. He'll notices you eventually.
> 
> Gotcha



Corrected. 



Turrin said:


> Here's my argument about the pairings.
> 
> 1. Just how many Manga's or Anime's have you guys read where the Main Hero (Naruto) *does not end up or is at least hinted at ending up with the Main Heroin* (Sakura)? I'll give some examples, but don't read if you don't want to be spoiled:
> 
> ...



Not got together?  


*Spoiler*: __ 



Yu Yu Hakusho:  I'd be inclined to agree with this one.  

Kekkeshi:   True Yoshimori wasn't officially paired up with Tokine in the end.  (Personally felt like an open-ended ending), but they were making a cake together in the end.  So I would say it was implied they got together.

And there was no other love interest for Tokine to make a pairing war over.

Bakuman:  Manga isn't over yet.   And its highly likely that Saiko ends up with Miho.

Full Metal Alchemist:  Ed does end up with Winry and they have two kids.

Inuyasha:  Inuyasha ends up with Kagome, and it's assumed she married him given how she referred to Sessoumaru as "brother".







HolyHands said:


> It's not about deep meanings or anything, in fact it's probably the opposite. Romance is more or less unimportant in this manga, and doesn't really exist for any reason other than fanservice or drama. Even with all the screentime Sakura gets, her romantic feelings have never done much for the overall story. It's always been Naruto and Sasuke's relationship.
> 
> I feel that you're making a mistake by attaching Naruto's crush on Sakura as one of his goals that he will later achieve. *Naruto's main goals have always been: become Hokage, get acknowledged as a person and not a monster, rescue Sasuke, and bring world peace.* Getting into Sakura's panties has never been a major part of Naruto's character, so him not getting together with Sakura isn't going to hurt the story structure or whatever. It would only hurt the story structure if romance was actually important in Naruto, and it's not.
> 
> Also, remember that Naruto gets massive amounts of inspiration from Dragonball, and DB didn't go the "main guy gets main girl" route either.



You think that part of being acknowledged would include Sakura and Sasuke.  Besides, Sakura's future plans didn't stay the same right.  After all she declared she hated Naruto.   

And using Dragonball as a reference for pairings in Naruto is stupid.  Dragonball didn't have love triangles as part of the plot.


----------



## gabzilla (May 25, 2011)

Mr Horrible said:


> Do you not see how ridiculous your post is? You bash NS for crime the other pairings are just as guilty of. Hell, at least NH and NS aren't trying to get in the pants of a genocidal maniac, but I guess that's overlooked considering how hawt he is.



You'd have a point if I was claiming Hinata and Sakura should get their men because they have been so good to them. 

I find all the main three pathetic at this point. Turrin was the one saying Naruto will get what he wants because he's the main character, I never implied this is bad for Naruto and good for the other two. That mentality sucks no matter what you ship.



Bellville said:


> Not a jab at you, but in general, as this brings up a good point: I'm wondering how this "feelings never change" thing will work out in NH's favor. If Sakura won't ever get over Sasuke after all that, why in the world would Naruto get over Sakura?
> 
> I never felt that Hinata was asking for a "response" from Naruto to begin with.. but from a shipper's standpoint, I'm not sure how reaffirming Hinata's already apparent feelings is going to help NH in the slightest, especially when there was no reason for those feelings to fade in the first place.



It doesn't. I don't know if Naruto will get over Sakura or not, but I hate the argument than you have to reciprocate somebody's feelings just because they have been nice to you.

I don't think this helps NH at all, to be honest. It's the same as always. Hinata loves him, Naruto ignores it. It's stuck there.

I really want Kishimoto to solve that once and for all so Hinata can move on. 



Bellville said:


> It's obvious endgame. I just find it unfortunate that both Hinata and Sakura get caught up in the mess. They will always come in second best to their respective cowboys.



Hinata and Sakura should forget about them and hook up with each other 



adee said:


> Don't spoil the hopes of losers like us by denying that


----------



## Mr Horrible (May 25, 2011)

ShadowReij said:


> Status report: Aye, the ships being SS and NH are still as one sided as ever and NS is lying in the bottom of the sea. And Bee has spotted breasts on the horizon.



I see, so SS and NH get to be classed as 'one-sided', whereas NS gets to be completely disregarded? This is usually the point where I say double standard, but that wouldn't be a proper sentence, hence this.



> On a more serious note every member of team 7's feelings for Sasuke have remained the same so why would Sakura be the only exception to this.



Sakura is already the exception in that she has romantic feelings for him.



> Plus  Naruto, Sakura, and Kakashi have all tried to kill the man in question and vice versa. So the whole he tried to kill them bit doesn't really fly.



I see, murder attempts are OK as long as it's mutual? Or perhaps it's only OK if your friends do it too?

Common sense dictates that twice the murder attempts, twice the implausibility of the pairing. But I guess SS > any decent logic that happens to flutter through the manga pages.

Edit:


gabzilla said:


> You'd have a point if I was claiming Hinata and Sakura should get their men because they have been so good to them.
> 
> I find all the main three pathetic at this point. Turrin was the one saying Naruto will get what he wants because he's the main character, I never implied this is bad for Naruto and good for the other two. That mentality sucks no matter what you ship.



So you're anti-big 3? My apologies, I thought you were a NH/SS shipper.

Anyway, an open ending doesn't seem all that likely at this point, given the panel time of the romantic sideplot, it's become expected that some resolution has to be reached. In which case, it's really between the big 3. Now Naruto has never expressed regret over liking Sakura, in fact the only time he gets sad about it is when SS is brought up. Sakura on the other hand seems quite saddened/ashamed of her lingering feelings for Sasuke. Tell me, which is more likely; Naruto getting over Sakura, even though he's shown very little in that direction, or Sakura finally conquering her feelings for Sasuke, which have been portrayed as a negative thing for her character for god knows how long?


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## Hitt (May 25, 2011)

Well, this pairing thread has done the same thing every other thread ever of this kind of nonsense has gone...and that is *nowhere*.  Everyone seems to be declaring victory, which is a huge tell (to me anyway) that the events of this chapter haven't done anything whatsoever to settle the debate.

And I'm talking about the "sane" people who debate this stuff, not the psychopathic pairing nuts who will sit there and deny things when Naruto (for instance) is _in bed_ with Sakura/Hinata/Sasuke/Tsunade/Itachi.......


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## Vanadius (May 25, 2011)

I have no love or interest in this pairing business.  But Kishimoto has left us a _lot_ of clues regarding the path Naruto is going to take.

Jiraiya and Naruto have a lot in common.  From being the goof off in their three man teams, to having a crush on the female teammate, to having a rivalry with their "cool genius" counterpart.  They have similar personalities.  They also tend to have similar philosophies.

But there is a big difference between Naruto and Jiraiya.  One, that I think Kishimoto has been keen to emphasize.  Where Jiraiya _has failed_, Naruto _will succeed._ 

I'm not saying this because I love Naruto, because I am definitely no Naruto Uzumaki fan.  But I do believe Kishimoto has been consistent with the underlying themes of his manga.  Foreshadowing, using benchmarks, and foiling.

Jiraiya failed to attract Tsunade.  He failed to save Orochimaru (and I do think Jiraiya would've been Hokage if he had).  He failed to save his teacher and his student.  He lost to "Pain" (Nagato under Madara's influence).  Jiraiya's loss to Pain wasn't just a physical defeat, it was a failure to give Nagato the hope he lost.

Naruto has yet to attract Sakura.  He has yet to "save" Sasuke.  He did save his teacher Kakashi from Nagato, and he did convert/defeat "Pain".  He perfected Sage Mode.  But the pattern here is clear.  Naruto is probably going to end up with Sakura, who obviously foils Tsunade (Jiraiya was unable to replace the death/loss of Dan) and Konan (who falls for Yahiko over Nagato as she matures, but is still loyal to them both).

Sakura's "love" for Sasuke is clearly physical and secondarily based on his skill and popularity as the Top Rookie of his class.  (See Naruto Shippuden Episode 212)  Whatever potential there was for Naruto was blocked in Part 1 due to his status as an outcast.  This obstacle was overcome with Naruto defeating Pain.  I do think that if Madara did not attack with the fox, Naruto would not be a Jinchurriki until later in life, and he would've enjoyed the status of being the Fourth's Son (See Konohamaru).  This, along with his overpowering will and dominant personality, probably would tilt Sakura over to his side.   

Sasuke did display some heroic qualities in Part 1 that were suppressed because of the Itachi issue.  But it was clearly Naruto who saved Sakura from Gaara in Part 1.  

Anyway, I would hate the thought of seeing Sasuke with Sakura.  Sasuke's character is far too complex for it to be destroyed by pairing with current Sakura.  Sasuke's path is one that reveals to us the evil secrets of the ninja world.  Save that lame, cartoonish romance stuff for Minato and Naruto.


----------



## Kurama (May 25, 2011)

Seto Kaiba said:


> This is how bad arguments can get when you just sideship shit.



Oh, Seto, you and your sideship mantra.





> No one's feelings has changed, Naruto's included.



Only to those who took Sai's BS about smiling=LURVE to heart, I mean really, he was already excited coming home from a successful mission. Of the three, Naruto's is the weakest in representation, and Sakura's failfession and his reaction don't exactly help it much.




> Naruto is the main character, he's going to be more fleshed out in his motivations and there's also the thing about him putting many of his desires and goals secondary to saving Sasuke. Nothing has been affirmed either which way on a pairing matter.



In terms of Naruto, sure. He's still up in the air. But simple observation shows his consideration of Hinata to have been rapid positive boosts in their interactions. Whereas his crush on Sakura was never really shown to have progressed beyond the joke it was in chapter 3. And no, little eight year old and baby toads pinky fingers are kind of rendered null when the man himself goes on about saving EVERYONE without as much as a single remotely romantic thought towards his supposed trulub  for those who want to bring up the Gaara fight. I mean come on, its gotta be a bad sign where the closest you can get for somewhat serious take on his feelings is when he's pretty much conceding to her feelings for his rival.



> Furthermore, Sasuke's redemption =/= SasuSaku. That's Hiruto Uzumaki logic, and it's quite sad you'd only hope for that if only to help NH's chances.



LMFAO. You again with the side shipping. I just think its lulzy that Kishi decided to throw in a NH reference alongside Sakura's SS hammerdrop in a single chapter. Don't try and flip it into me thinking NH's chances depended on Sakura still loving Sasuke. Even if nothing happens from Sasuke's redemption with SS, because sure, Kishi could just not do it and leave Sakura's feelings to just....be there, NH can still happen because its completely independent [as on the same point, NH can still NOT happen and Hinata's feelings, her sacrifice and all that, can just......be there]. We've been through this enough times, old friend.




> Also I have to laugh at the guy who made the "Hinata will help Naruto control Kyubi", and "Hinata will heal Naruto's pain as a jinchuriki" theories (if you could call them that) chiding another for outlandish expectations.



LMFAO @ you confusing fandom fun for a theory we were soooo certain was gonna happen. If you actually paid attention, we made it clear if something to that effect actually went down, then awesome, if not, we weren't holding our breath for it anyways. And what we got was pretty damn epic. A bit of a reversal, but still damn good. In my opinion.


----------



## ryz (May 25, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> Hinata and Sakura should forget about them and hook up with each other



Hence forth called the Gabzilla Solution TM


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## Bellville (May 25, 2011)

ShadowReij said:


> On a more serious note every member of team 7's feelings for Sasuke have remained the same so why would Sakura be the only exception to this. Plus  Naruto, Sakura, and Kakashi have all tried to kill the man in question and vice versa. So the whole he tried to kill them bit doesn't really fly. Plus, they're ninjas their choice of occupation does involve killing a specific targets or other ninja.


Actually, Naruto never tried to kill Sasuke. He's looking for every possible solution _but_ killing Sasuke. He implies that Sasuke dying would mean he would end up getting killed too, as a result of neither of them letting up.

The same cannot be said for Kakashi or Sakura.


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## gabzilla (May 25, 2011)

Mr Horrible said:


> So you're anti-big 3? My apologies, I thought you were a NH/SS shipper.
> 
> Anyway, an open ending doesn't seem all that likely at this point, given the panel time of the romantic sideplot, it's become expected that some resolution has to be reached. In which case, it's really between the big 3. Now Naruto has never expressed regret over liking Sakura, in fact the only time he gets sad about it is when SS is brought up. Sakura on the other hand seems quite saddened/ashamed of her lingering feelings for Sasuke. Tell me, which is more likely; Naruto getting over Sakura, even though he's shown very little in that direction, or Sakura finally conquering her feelings for Sasuke, which have been portrayed as a negative thing for her character for god knows how long?



I only ship in fandom, and SS and NH are not even my main ships anymore.

In canon they all look like shit, there's no way to save _any_ of them.

It doesn't matter which one becomes canon, they will all suck. The only questions is _how much_.


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## ~Gesy~ (May 25, 2011)

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 41 (19 members and 22 guests)
~Gesy~*, Starr, 8, Vanadius, Agent of Death/Ergo Proxy, son_michael, Hitt, SoulCatcher, Seto Kaiba, Nagiza, ilcane87, Skilatry, Khyle, Krimson


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## Seto Kaiba (May 25, 2011)

kyuubi425 said:


> Oh, Seto, you and your sideship mantra.



Sasuke can't revive the Uchiha by giving Naruto head.

It's what you do. I think anyone that takes a passing glance can tell this is true for you at least.



> Only to those who took Sai's BS about smiling=LURVE to heart, I mean really, he was already excited coming home from a successful mission. Of the three, Naruto's is the weakest in representation, and Sakura's failfession and his reaction don't exactly help it much.



Verbose denial. You are doing the same thing you accuse NS fans of doing.



> In terms of Naruto, sure. He's still up in the air. But simple observation shows his consideration of Hinata to have been rapid positive boosts in their interactions. Whereas his crush on Sakura was never really shown to have progressed beyond the joke it was in chapter 3. And no, little eight year old and baby toads pinky fingers are kind of rendered null when the man himself goes on about saving EVERYONE without as much as a single remotely romantic thought towards his supposed trulub  for those who want to bring up the Gaara fight. I mean come on, its gotta be a bad sign where the closest you can get for somewhat serious take on his feelings is when he's pretty much conceding to her feelings for his rival.



This is...really bad...That's just factually untrue that Naruto and Sakura's relationship hasn't progressed. It's also untrue that Naruto's feelings haven't grown either. It has, visibly so, regardless of where you think it will ultimately end up.

Also, like I stated, you are doing the same thing NS fans do and interpreting events as you want to see them. Those events may not lead to anything, those events don't necessarily have romantic connotations or lend any credence to NaruHina's development or it happening. They could just be there.  

If you can't even see that, then it means your perceptive abilities have remained as stagnant as your OTP.



> LMFAO. You again with the side shipping. I just think its lulzy that Kishi decided to throw in a NH reference alongside Sakura's SS hammerdrop in a single chapter. Don't try and flip it into me thinking NH's chances depended
> on Sakura still loving Sasuke.



That's how you are and have argued it, or vice-versa.



> Even if nothing happens from Sasuke's redemption with SS, because sure, Kishi could just not do it and leave Sakura's feelings to just....be there, NH can still happen because its completely independent [as on the same point, NH can still NOT happen and Hinata's feelings, her sacrifice and all that, can just......be there]. We've been through this enough times, old friend.



Naruto's feelings? They are still there too. Yet again, you keep wanting to deny them. You do the same thing you blast NS fans for doing, once again. By your own logic, those won't be left hanging either and NaruSaku could happen too.



> LMFAO @ you confusing fandom fun for a theory we were soooo certain was gonna happen. If you actually paid attention, we made it clear if something to that effect actually went down, then awesome, if not, we weren't holding our breath for it anyways. And what we got was pretty damn epic. A bit of a reversal, but still damn good. In my opinion.



You strongly asserted those claims, just like you're doing now. Not just to myself but many present in my FC at the time.


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## Tyrannos (May 25, 2011)

kyuubi425 said:


> Hypocritical? How? You'll have to better explain yourself. The hug was pretty evidently platonic, completely devoid of any of the passion Sakura has previously shown towards the object of her affection, yknow, actual body contact and SOME kind of reaction from the person hugged. Sure, I would've enjoyed a Naruto-Hugging-Hinata-In-Relief moment, but fuck it, NH can get something greater down the line. The scene was meant to represent Naruto getting the acknowledgment he's been claiming he'd get since chapter 1. Sakura was more or less a measure of the villages acceptance. In the Failfession, it was blatantly obvious from the beginning she was talking out of her ass about just about everything [except for Naruto's ACTUAL non-shallow good points, which are simple fact but far from reason for her to fall for him apparently]. There was no "revelation" that it was a lie, it was evident in its execution. But of course NS found a loophole: "Nobody knows Sakura's feelings but herself!" And look what happened. And of course this leads to:
> 
> 
> Awwwwwww innat cute.
> ...



LOL, attacking fanfictions.   What's next, "Yo Momma" jokes?

No, what is a joke is those NH theories where Hinata was going to save Naruto because Minato used Yin/Yang jutsu and the Hyuuga's have the Yin/Yang symbol.   Now who was it who had that as a signature?  

And there's more to SS and NH?   Feel free to list it.   We been over this song and dance so many times, you can just dance by yourself.   Naruto hasn't acknowledged Hinata, inspite of her confession and Sasuke keeps trying to kill Sakura.  If this is your idea of love, then guess 1 night stands with hookers counts as romance too.  


Oh and the Hypocrisy is simple:  You said the same things when people said NH was dead a few months ago.  So deal.



kyuubi425 said:


> Kishi's level of trolling can't exceed outright stating the heroine's feelings lay with the NOT HERO 537 chapters after her appearance and supposed "gradual mutual" development with him.
> 
> And LOL. You say this like romance is a major focus, as though who loves who is so critical to the plot. The amount of chapters between moments don't matter when they're such better quality. and hell, With all that has gone down, in manga time its maybe been just a week or so at best since her confession and alot of heavy shit went down since then.



Funny, last I checked the plot around Team 7 was part of the major focus.  And guess what, there is a thing called a Love Triangle, in which isn't a secret.

But hey Sakura liked Sasuke for 537 chapters, where since that time he beat her up, and tried to kill her on two occasions.   I mean that's just rough love, am I right?   But she's a medic, she can heal the abuse.

And Naruto and Hinata, another great relationship there.   Naruto ends up getting married and not realizing it!  


Let's face it, the only plausible good resolution for any romance at this point Sakura finally requitting Naruto's love.


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## Dillinger (May 25, 2011)

I need to jump in here real fast then run out and find a much better thread about Tsunade and Bee. 

Alright we have SS up first. Celebrate!! It's one step closer to canon with this chapter! Wait, what? No it's not. If anything it has taken a step back, but definitely not forward. Then again when you're already so far against the wall you're rubbing the paint off, I guess you really only can move forward. Should I remind everyone going crazy over this of the 'chokeabitch and try to kill' chapter? Everyone must have been way too distracted by that loving look on Sakura's face as she thought of Sasuke to remember all of that. No worries though, you're pal Zebrahead is on the case. 

Next we have NH. Well we have H. Hmmmm..... it would be a waste of my time to even bother with this. It's Hinata and she's thinking about Naruto, nothing new here. I understand the little excitment it may have given NH fans, though. Carry on it's been awhile for you guys; Enjoy it. 


Finally there's NS. I heard it's dead? I've heard that like 2,456 times(accuracy is up for debate) over the past 3 years as well. Something always comes around and totally blows whatever it was dragging NS down out of the water, then sets it on fire with the heat radiating off its awesome aura. And if it doesn't, i'll be a sad panda loving guy for about 2 hours as I read the chapter NS is put to rest in, then i'll move on.




Later people!


----------



## Kind of a big deal (May 25, 2011)

Actually this chapter is pretty terrible if you think about it. 

It confirmed that Sakura is still in love with Sasuke. So basically all the characters have not changed since the very beginning of the manga. Sakura and Hinata still have a one-sided love that's borderline pathetic. Naruto doesn't have deep feelings other than wanting to be friends with everyone, Sasuke is in his own little world.

Hinata's character only exists purely for her feelings for Naruto. There is literally nothing else to her, every time we have seen her since the beginning of part 2 in anything more than a single panel, it was about being in love with Naruto. We get it. You can stop laying it on so thick, we get it. Especially Hinata fans should be annoyed at this by now, I would think.

I'm not in favor of any pairing other than Shikamaru and Temari for comedy value (Shikamaru would revert to his mumbling complaining part 1 persona, I think), but at least things were more interesting when Sakura's love interest was more or less up to interpretation. Now that it's more or less confirmed it's Sasuke, I get the feeling that nothing has happened since part 1.

Raikage -Tsunade is the only interesting development, they _do_ look cool together, and they're roughly the same age so it's not weird, it could work. Shame she will die soon though.


----------



## Sora (May 25, 2011)




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## Skeith (May 25, 2011)

Seto Kaiba said:


> This is how bad arguments can get when you just sideship shit. No one's feelings has changed, Naruto's included. Yet again, you deny that. You are basically doing the same thing you're blasting NS fans are doing. You are looking at moments the way you want to see them, and ignoring others that don't fit with how you want things. Naruto thought of Hinata, but just as Sakura hugging Naruto, that doesn't mean it was romantic or lends any credence to NaruHina happening.



We aren't tanking Naruto thinking of Hinata as NaruHina Happening, but to show that he HAS thought about her and to get rid of the common argument that "Naruto never thinks about her or cares about her."


> Naruto is the main character, he's going to be more fleshed out in his motivations and *there's also the thing about him putting many of his desires and goals secondary to saving Sasuke.* Nothing has been affirmed either which way on a pairing matter.



There was that moment were, after Sai ask about Naruto feelings, did say that until Sasuke is return, won't go for love.



> I think you should follow Skeith's advice, because you are really jumping the gun on this. AGAIN.



I learn to never jump the gun in this manga cause by next chapter, it goes in the other way.




> Furthermore, Sasuke's redemption =/= SasuSaku. That's Hiruto Uzumaki logic, and it's quite sad you'd only hope for that if only to help NH's chances.



Thinking Sasuke is going to be redeem.



> Also I have to laugh at the guy who made the "Hinata will help Naruto control Kyubi", and "Hinata will heal Naruto's pain as a jinchuriki" theories (if you could call them that) chiding another for outlandish expectations. You've made so many assertions in which nothing ever came out of it, so who are you to talk about that matter?



Ahh...those theories. I remember saying something like that, but I put it under "I would like that to happen" not "it Going to happen."


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## Lelouch71 (May 25, 2011)

You guys arguing for NH and SS are just setting yourself up for more trolling. It's the same old dance. You are being marionettes dancing to Kishi tune. I could never see the appeal of NH and SS. They are horribly one sided. Sakura has a crush on a scumbag that ignores her, treats her like crap, and not to mention tried to kill her twice. Sasuke doesn't even give a shit about her. Only Itachi and Naruto to some extent have any real influence. 

Hinata has a silly crush on some guy she barely knows. I get that she idolizes Naruto, but it's not real love. Naruto ignores her. He think about Sasuke more than he thinks about anything else. Hell it been 100 chapters and he has yet to thank her. SS and NH aren't some well written love story. They are both shitty. NS is also a piece of shit of a pairing too. I won't let go of the fact that Sakura tried to manipulate Naruto back in the Kage arc.

I really hope none of the big 3 pairings happen. Hopefully Naruto can find himself a new girl (preferably Karin) if he ever gets over his mancrush for Sasuke.


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## Krimson (May 25, 2011)

Yall need to calm down. Pairings are irrelevant to the story now. In Part 1 romance was actually somewhat relevant, since the story was about the physical and emotional development of Naruto; it was a coming of age story. 

Now the story is just about a boy fulfilling his destiny to become some sort of Jesus figure and save the world. And Sasuke? Lets be honest. For all the complexity and coolness of his story, he's just a stepping stone for Naruto's development. Not to hate on Sasuke's character or anything, but his story is not its own purpose. You can disagree with me all you want, but the title of the manga says I'm right.

So basically, in neither Naruto's nor Sasuke's storylines is romance at all relevant anymore. You can spew stuff about bonds, but in every instance of the manga so far, those bonds have been of a platonic nature. 

Thus in the end, it doesn't really matter who ends up with who. There's no "should" in this discussion, because the themes and message of the manga are no longer affected by pairing results. And if you base what you think "should" happen on real life, well sorry to burst your bubble, but you're too idealistic. I see a lot of people arguing that some pairing can't happen because of some glittering generality like "IRL feelings don't change that fast". Well yes, they do, and if it hasn't happened to you or even someone you know, then you need to get out more.

Real life is not a good predictor of what will happen here. Do I still think NaruSaku would be the best pairing in terms of most healthy relationship and sending the right message? Yes. But shit happens IRL, sometimes for no good reason, and it's unpredictable. Nice girls fall for douchebags, nice girls fall for nice guys, and outgoing guys can fall for shy girls. It happens.

You can still have your own preferences for what pairings you want to happen, but don't be retarded and bash other people for their opinions. Pairings are now completely fanservice and have no affect on the plot anymore, and thus there's no "this is a fact" or "this should happen" in terms of the end results.


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## ShadowReij (May 25, 2011)

Bellville said:


> Actually, Naruto never tried to kill Sasuke. He's looking for every possible solution _but_ killing Sasuke. He implies that Sasuke dying would mean he would end up getting killed too, as a result of neither of them letting up.
> 
> The same cannot be said for Kakashi or Sakura.



While his goal back at the VotE and now are the same the end result would've been what Naruto has stated, them killing each for the reason you've stated. Intentionally on his end, no, but still death. Kyuubi shroud and all.


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## 8 (May 25, 2011)

Vanadius said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...


sure thing, naruto will succeed where j failed. also in love. but it doesn't has to be in the most obvious way.
naruto getting over his first crush, and eventually fall in love with a better girl, would also be a great solution.


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## Skeith (May 25, 2011)

Lelouch71 said:


> 1) Hinata has a silly crush on some guy she barely knows.
> 
> 2) I get that she idolizes Naruto, but it's not real love.
> 
> ...



This is the most common things people say against NH and I'll try to answer these using common sense and not under paring-glasses.

1) She knows Naruto, as stated many times she has watched him and has understand him. (What she thinks during Naruto Vs. Kiba and the proud failure speech shows this.)

2) Yes she idolize him at first. In fact, during her fight with Neji she didn't understand why her heart beat fast or if she likes Naruto pass idolize at that point. Sometime during the skip, it turn to love.

3) When did he never ignore her? Kind of hard for people on different teams that are always going in and out of the village for missions see each other often. 

4) Not arguing this. 

5) I said it many times, all it takes is a flashback. Heck, if I can put the paring-glasses on her for a sec, I can say that the picture of Naruto that was behind Hinata in this chapter was him talking to her about that. 
*takes glasses off* Now this is unlikely, but it is possible so I'm not going to jump the gun on this.


----------



## Olivia (May 25, 2011)

Skaddix said:


> Lol get job OP way to keep this all contained.
> so we got.
> Kiba Neji
> Hinata Naruto
> ...



You forgot Nagato Itachi.


----------



## C-Moon (May 25, 2011)

Hitt said:
			
		

> Well, this pairing thread has done the same thing every other thread ever of this kind of nonsense has gone...and that is nowhere.


Well that's par for the course, and you can always expect somebody to come in and act like they're bringing something gamebreaking to the table.

Also, dsajv is Jizz.


----------



## Raging Bird (May 25, 2011)

NaruHina.  anything else would be stupid.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (May 25, 2011)

Gamma Akutabi said:


> Well that's par for the course, and you can always expect somebody to come in and act like they're bringing something gamebreaking to the table.
> 
> Also, dsajv is Jizz.



How were you able to tell before he posted!?


----------



## Turrin (May 25, 2011)

HolyHands said:


> It's not about deep meanings or anything, in fact it's probably the opposite. Romance is more or less unimportant in this manga, and doesn't really exist for any reason other than fanservice or drama. Even with all the screentime Sakura gets, her romantic feelings have never done much for the overall story. It's always been Naruto and Sasuke's relationship.
> 
> I feel that you're making a mistake by attaching Naruto's crush on Sakura as one of his goals that he will later achieve. Naruto's main goals have always been: become Hokage, get acknowledged as a person and not a monster, rescue Sasuke, and bring world peace. Getting into Sakura's panties has never been a major part of Naruto's character, so him not getting together with Sakura isn't going to hurt the story structure or whatever. It would only hurt the story structure if romance was actually important in Naruto, and it's not.
> 
> Also, remember that Naruto gets massive amounts of inspiration from Dragonball, and DB didn't go the "main guy gets main girl" route either.


Getting into Sakura's panties is one of his main goals though lol. If you read the story-line getting Sakura to like him as one of his goals was told to us in the first chapter of the manga and keeping his promise and confessing to Sakura was told to us just recently. So I do think it would go against the moral of the story if Naruto after doing all this shit he has for Sakura and keeping his promise fails to get her to fall for him and she continues to love the emotionally and physically abusive Sasuke more. I mean that sends the message of, well you can try your best, work harder than anyone else, become Hokage, etc... but when it comes to Love your still going to loose to the asshole pretty boy. 

If Kishi is going to put no thought into the romance aspect than it will end up the stereotypical Main Hero X Main Heroin at the end. If he is trying to put thought into it than it will also end up Main Hero X Main Heroin going by the morals of the story line. The only way it wouldn't end up that way is if Kishi has some deeper no cliche meaning behind it, but I honestly can not see that as thee most likely option in this scenario.

When it comes to the DB thing, their is a major difference like I stated in my post and that difference was Bulma being like twice Goku's age. Kishi takes "inspiration" from a-lot of manga like Flame of Recca and probably Berserk and in both cases we have the Main Hero X Main Herion final pairing, so just because he likes DB doesn't mean that he is going to stray from the norm.



Tyrannos said:


> Not got together?
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...


I was giving examples of when they are together, but thanks for reinforcing my point, that the Main Hero and Main Heroin almost aways end up together. 



gabzilla said:


> The moral of the story is that if you work hard enough, you''ll get in the pants of the girl that doesn't love you. She'll give in eventually.
> 
> Gotcha


Actually the moral of the story, if Sakura and Naruto go together would be that through doing everything for the person that you love and never giving up hope, that you can change a person's mind or prove your own worth to them. Considering that people do not only love one person their entire lives.

But what you said works too, because quite honestly Kishi doesn't give a shit.


----------



## lynxie (May 25, 2011)

Lelouch71 said:


> They are horribly one sided.



But that is why they are so great!

Drama, tears, such beautiful things, so many emotions.

I hate actual pairings, that is so boring. 

Only a pairing like Sasuke x Sakura would be a bit interesting, because I really have no idea how that could work.

From Sakura's side I understand, but Sasuke? Seeing Sasuke acting even a bit romantic? 

I really want to know how Sasuke would act with his love... 
Probably boring... shy...  
If he acted like nami86 draws SxS then I would want SxS to happen 

But no Kishi shouldn't go for any pairing, I have no trust that he can make it interesting...


----------



## hitokugutsu (May 25, 2011)

So this chap pretty much states Sakura x Naruto = dead

And also Hinata got panel time...all for Naruto-kun


----------



## Samochan (May 25, 2011)

I have a feeling that when naruto jumps to the battlefield on his RM mode or activates it there, he's gonna be feeling lots of different emotions, but most different and clear would probably be the luv from Hinata.  

I can just see this happening if Kishi would actually make some towards that direction. I mean, Naru still hasn't said anything to her since she confessed.  I think it's about time, she has the chance to die for real if the battle goes on and the issue would stay forever unresolved.  (plotshield protects her ofc, but manga charas dun know that)


----------



## ShadowReij (May 25, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> I only ship in fandom, and SS and NH are not even my main ships anymore.
> 
> In canon they all look like shit, there's no way to save _any_ of them.
> 
> It doesn't matter which one becomes canon, they will all suck. The only questions is _how much_.


Neh, more like how most shounen are when the deal with the prospect of romance which is mainly with little or hardly any attention to it at all. Which makes sense for an action genre. Especially one starring two males whose primary goals don't come within a thought of the opposite sex or those that are interested in them.


----------



## Skeith (May 25, 2011)

Turrin said:


> *Getting into Sakura's panties is one of his main goals though lol. If you read the story-line getting Sakura to like him as one of his goals was told to us in the first chapter of the manga and keeping his promise and confessing to Sakura was told to us just recently.* So I do think it would go against the moral of the story if Naruto after doing all this shit he has for Sakura and keeping his promise fails to get her to fall for him and she continues to love the emotionally and physically abusive Sasuke more. I mean that sends the message of, well you can try your best, work harder than anyone else, become Hokage, etc... but when it comes to Love your still going to loose to the asshole pretty boy.



I.....don't remember any of this.


----------



## mayumi (May 25, 2011)

all i know is kishi is hell bent on not pairing sakura with naruto. he just can't stand the girl. in a way its a good thing for naruto cause she sucks and he knows it.

naruto will most likely die in th end so sasusaku can live happily ever after. tee hee after all that suffering sasuke been through thats the least little bro can do for them, eh?


----------



## ajinko (May 25, 2011)

I don't think kishi hates sakura. i just think he doesn't want to encourage narusaku.


----------



## Mane (May 25, 2011)

PikaCheeka said:


> I don't ever see anyone dissing Hinata for loving a guy who has ignored her ever since she nearly died saving his life.



If Naruto had tried to kill her _several times_, they would be.


----------



## Iamacloud (May 25, 2011)

Bellville said:


> Not a jab at you, but in general, as this brings up a good point: I'm wondering how this "feelings never change" thing will work out in NH's favor. If Sakura won't ever get over Sasuke after all that, why in the world would Naruto get over Sakura?



I'll try a jab at that one. 

It's not that Sakura couldn't, but actually simply that she has not moved on.

I was fine with her actually falling for Naruto, and even after Hinata's confession, still considered NH the underdog because of 1 fact. Naruto loved Sakura, and I believed that love was sincere and selfless. There was one thing that I saw as a sign of hope for NH, and that was that in a way, Naruto has already shown that he was able and willing to admit defeat gracefully on the Sakura front (his reaction to the SasuSaku hospital hug).

Sakura could have been forgetting about Sasuke and falling for the hero, Kishi was very careful not to reveal much about the true nature of her feelings for Sasuke or Naruto, leaving place to very specific interpretation of those few moments where the romance sub-plot got any focus (such as, for example, Yamato's unfinished sentence).

That all changed for me with 469. To me, that this wasn't the confession of a girl in love with Naruto. Already her reaction to Karui's revelation was a big hint that her feelings for Sasuke were still strong (and yet was starting to doubt his redemption), but her confession was the killing blow. It showed that Sakura loved Naruto very much, but not "that way", and that she still had very strong feelings for Sasuke.

This vas confirmed by following chapters such as this one, and meant that previously ambiguous scenes could now be looked at in a new light. Yamato didn't mean romantic love, but rather that Sakura really cared for Naruto, and that that was the most important thing (remember, Sakura was worrying about not being able to do big things to help Naruto). When Sakura was shown crying over a picture of team 7 after meeting Sasuke in early part 2, it wasn't as much of a "team" moment as claimed by many NaruSaku supporters (and I must say, some NHer too ). Sakura was hurting over Sasuke. Etc.

So again, it's not that she could not, but simply that she has not gotten over Sasuke and fallen for Naruto.

I'll address NH/Naruto's side side later in the post.



> I never felt that Hinata was asking for a "response" from Naruto to begin with.. but from a shipper's standpoint, I'm not sure how reaffirming Hinata's already apparent feelings is going to help NH in the slightest, especially when there was no reason for those feelings to fade in the first place.



First part, totally agree, and that's part of the beauty of it. That plus her reaction to Sakura hugging Naruto in 450 showed that, just like Naruto was willing to accept Sakura loving someone else, Hinata is willing to do the same for him. They both love in a very selfless way, and I find that cute. And I do think it makes Hinata look good from Naruto's perspective, even if we've seen nothing on that yet.

Agree again on the second part, doesn't help NH at all, just adding insult to injury by Kishi to mention NH at all in this chapter. He probably is unaware of the effects it can have on the fandom... 



Turrin said:


> 1. Just how many Manga's or Anime's have you guys read where the Main Hero (Naruto) does not end up or is at least hinted at ending up with the Main Heroin (Sakura)? I'll give some examples, but don't read if you don't want to be spoiled:
> 
> <insert long post>



You're trying too hard man, NaruSaku is dead. Sakura has discovered all she could about Naruto, they've grown to be great friends, she's seen him, up-close, turn from a loser to a hero, she knows he loves her. If she's not into him after all that... well... it's simple, she's not into him that way.

The way Kishi portrayed Sakura in part 2, you could be lead to think that she was getting over Sasuke and falling for Naruto. But that all changed with the confession (for me) and was confirmed by chapters like 474 and this one.

Now about NH.

The truth is, we haven't seen anything of Naruto's feelings for either Hinata or Sakura ever since Sai's flashback (which predated Hinata's confession, intact village being the proof of that). This is actually telling from a writing standpoint. He left the door open for Naruto's feelings to be evolving.

But he hasn't told us anything about it! That's just fanfic/wishful thinking!

Well, yes and no. Even if romance is only a sub-plot, Naruto showing romantic interest in Hinata would be pretty big still. If he's going for that (and it looks like it more than ever), then he likely has a rather big reveal planned (just look at 437).

And, the thing is, that between chapter 469 and this one, Kishimoto had been busy putting the axe in NaruSaku as far as romantic sub-plot went.

My haters might remember that I predicted that Kishi would have to adress NaruSaku first after Hinata's confession and come to a resolution on that side before NH could hope to progress (either by showing Naruto moving on, or that Sakura still wasn't interested, turned out to be the latter).

Well since I was right on that one, I'll risk another. Now that the NaruSaku side has been resolved, Naruto and Hinata are on a collision course. They will meet and address the confession, and Naruto's feelings. It could be in 50, 100, or even more chapters, as the romance sub-plot progesses slowly, but it will happen, and the outcome will likely be very positive for NH.

(hopefully not too soon, I have a couple more ideas for "NH, because" sigs before I get to the "because it's fucking canon" one)


----------



## gabzilla (May 25, 2011)

Turrin said:


> Actually the moral of the story, if Sakura and Naruto go together would be that through doing everything for the person that you love and never giving up hope, *that you can change a person's mind or prove your own worth to them.* Considering that people do not only love one person their entire lives.
> 
> But what you said works too, because quite honestly Kishi doesn't give a shit.



That the girl you like will change her mind eventually! You just need to insist and insist and insist and she'll have to say yes one of these days, if you are nice enough, she'll see the light. 

Lovely.

Naruto already proved his worth. Sakura already knows he is awesome. This doesn't mean she owes him a relationship.

The moral of the story has nothing to do with Naruto getting into anybody's pants.



ShadowReij said:


> Neh, more like how most shounen are when the deal with the prospect of romance which is mainly with little or hardly any attention to it at all. Which makes sense for an action genre. Especially one starring two males whose primary goals don't come within a thought of the opposite sex or those that are interested in them.



Most shounen writers avoid romance when they know they are not good at it. Kishimoto does not.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (May 25, 2011)

The morals and themes of Naruto have nothing to do with pairings, and mainly are related to the Sasuke/Naruto bond. To their benefit or detriment.



Mane said:


> If Naruto had tried to kill her _several times_, they would be.



You'd think it'd go without saying...


----------



## ~Gesy~ (May 25, 2011)

i'm trying to be unbiased here, but after all these years i still don't get why she has feelings for him, since day 1 the guy never paid attention to her. naruto has a reason to care for sasuke because they share a bond of brothers, sakura's relation with him wasn't even close to that.


----------



## ShadowReij (May 25, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> Most shounen writers avoid romance when they know they are not good at it. Kishimoto does not.



Doubt it, considering what Kishi has done isn't uncommon. At least he's not like Toriyama. That man threw one hell of curve ball that baffles everyone to this day.


----------



## Jeαnne (May 25, 2011)

lol het pairings


didnt you guys notice that the only cannon pairing in this shit is sasunaru?


----------



## gabzilla (May 25, 2011)

ShadowReij said:


> Doubt it, considering what Kishi has done isn't uncommon. At least he's not like Toriyama. That man threw one hell of curve ball that baffles everyone to this day.



In which other current shounen you have so many trolling when it comes to pairings? Bleach is the only one that comes to mind.


----------



## Iamacloud (May 25, 2011)

Seto Kaiba said:


> The morals and themes of Naruto have nothing to do with pairings, and mainly are related to the Sasuke/Naruto bond. To their benefit or detriment.



Actually...

Desire to be acknowledge by others, huge theme in the manga, and huge theme in romance side. Naruto and Sakura wants to be acknowledged by Sasuke, it's even part of why Naruto liked Sakura, and Hinata wants to be acknowledged by Naruto (even if she's happy with "I like people like you" already, I think she'll get even more  ). And this might be part of why Naruto could fall for Hinata too. (too soon  )

Bonds, main theme in the manga, and also pairing wise. Sasuke mentioned his strong bond to both Sakura and Naruto as a reason why he left Konoha, so that he could focus on his bond of hatred with his brother. Naruto and Sakura obviously have strong bonds to Sasuke (romantic in a least 1 case), and Hinata a strong bond to Naruto (romantic, and strong enough to risk her own life without hesitation).

Naruto's nindo (his core values), big theme in the manga, and the two person who share that nindo might well end up together.

Of course the NaruSasu bond is the backbone of this story, but I don't think it's fair to say that pairings don't relate to the themes of the manga.



~Gesy~ said:


> i'm trying to be unbiased here, but after all these years i still don't get why she has feelings for him, since day 1 the guy never paid attention to her. naruto has a reason to care for sasuke because they share a bond of brothers, sakura's relation with him wasn't even close to that.



I used to think that but hanging in the pairing debate thread got me to learn more about SS.

Sakura did manage to calm down a bloodlusted CS Sasuke in the forrest of death, the chapter called "Sakura's depression" was all about Sakura feeling down, and Sasuke noticing and helping her out. They were teammates for months, which does lead to strong bonds (anyone who's ever been on a sports team/military/etc can understand).


----------



## AoshiKun (May 25, 2011)

ShadowReij said:


> Doubt it, considering what Kishi has done isn't uncommon. At least he's not like Toriyama. That man threw one hell of curve ball that baffles everyone to this day.


Are you talking about Vegeta and Bulma?


----------



## ShadowReij (May 25, 2011)

~Gesy~ said:


> i'm trying to be unbiased here, but after all these years i still don't get why she has feelings for him, since day 1 the guy never paid attention to her. naruto has a reason to care for sasuke because they share a bond of brothers, sakura's relation with him wasn't even close to that.



Without going into an indepth explaination. What sealed her fate was the "Thank You", Sasuke might as well have "You can catch up to me later."


----------



## Deana (May 25, 2011)

Jeαnne said:


> lol het pairings
> 
> 
> didnt you guys notice that the only cannon pairing in this shit is sasunaru?


LOL and it is just as fail as the other pairings in Naruto.  Just to to arrogant to realize it.


----------



## ShadowReij (May 25, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> In which other current shounen you have so many trolling when it comes to pairings? Bleach is the only one that comes to mind.


Ah Kubo. If we're talking trolling one that comes to mind would Inuyasha, which actually did focus on romance yet the main pair did not even kiss. Fans were pissed if I recall. Another would be the orignal Yu-gi-oh, main female loves pharoah psh, he goes back in time. Kekkaishi is another where somehow the main pair happened but you wouldn't know it if you read the end chapter alone. Fine with me though. I think 666 was another not sure though, since that one I never even read. Just heard the opinions of some very unsatisfied fans. There is more than likely a lot more examples out there. But those are the ones I recall.


AoshiKun said:


> Are you talking about Vegeta and Bulma?


That would be the curve ball, the other was how Goku was talked into marriage.


----------



## Turrin (May 25, 2011)

Iamacloud said:


> You're trying too hard man, NaruSaku is dead. Sakura has discovered all she could about Naruto, they've grown to be great friends, she's seen him, up-close, turn from a loser to a hero, she knows he loves her. If she's not into him after all that... well... it's simple, she's not into him that way.


Iamacloud have you never read any other romance manga or watch any other romance anime (Or hell any anime/manga with romance in them)? Because I can give you tons of examples where a girl declares she loves one guy only to end up in love with another guy (usually the hero of the story). So to say a pairing is dead simply because Sakura is still in love with Sasuke, makes zero sense. Now you can say if she's not into him after all of that, than things will never change, but again, I must ask what your level of exposure to this genre is, because again I can pull out plenty of examples where a boy does a ton of a shit for a girl and she is still in love with someone else and it seems like nothing he can do will change that and than wang bang boom and that girl is more in love with him than the first guy.

I think perhaps the most comparable example of this is Berserk (Though again not the only one). In Berserk we have the characters of Caska, Griffith, and Guts. Caska at the very start of the story is desperately in love with Griffith, but Griffith is more concerned about his goal than having a relationship and thus he ignores Caska and basically treats her feelings towards him pretty poorly, just like Sasuke. Than Guts enters the scene who Caska at first hates, but he ends up saving her life time and time again, which eventually makes her warm up to him, but she still loves Griffith more despite all logic. It isn't until Guts finally defeats Griffith and decides to go after his own dreams instead of worrying about Griffith anymore, does Caska finally fall in love with Guts or realize she loved him all along.

Sound familiar, well it should since the Naruto manga follows this pattern exactly up to the point where Guts beats Griffith, though we know that in the end Naruto will beat Sasuke and this is also the point that many people have cited is most likely going to be when Sakura falls in love with Naruto or realizes she is in love with Naruto. Has Kishi strung out the whole Sakura's still in love with Sasuke thing longer than Miura did with Caska and Griffith, well in terms of amount of chapter he has, but in terms of time within the universe, its taking about the same amount of time for Sakura to have a change of heart that it took Caska.

So yeah, the pairing is not dead, i'm sorry to say. 



> The way Kishi portrayed Sakura in part 2, you could be lead to think that she was getting over Sasuke and falling for Naruto. But that all changed with the confession (for me) and was confirmed by chapters like 474 and this one.


Nothing led me to believe she was getting over Sasuke. The stuff that lead me to believe she was developing feelings for Naruto, that she herself was confused about and/or still not fully aware of are still fully backed up by the author's own words in the Data-book.



> The truth is, we haven't seen anything of Naruto's feelings for either Hinata or Sakura ever since Sai's flashback (which predated Hinata's confession, intact village being the proof of that). This is actually telling from a writing standpoint. He left the door open for Naruto's feelings to be evolving


Sai told us that currently Naruto (This is after the Pain fight) is in love with Sakura and Sakura also confirmed this. Not that Naruto's face of sheer joy when Sakura confesses to him (Before he realizes the reasoning behind it) leaves anything to doubt.

Now with that in mind your entire post is incredibly hypocritical. On one hand you say SakuraXNaruto is dead, because Sakura has indicated that she currently loves Sasuke still, but HinaXNaruto is still going strong, despite the MC indicating he loves another women. You can't form a real argument this way, you have to ether argue both pairings are dead, for this very reason or argue both pairings still have a chance of happening. 



> My haters might remember that I predicted that Kishi would have to adress NaruSaku first after Hinata's confession and come to a resolution on that side before NH could hope to progress (either by showing Naruto moving on, or that Sakura still wasn't interested, turned out to be the latter).


It actually can't be the latter, because if Naruto doesn't move on, than HinaXNaruto still won't happen and NarutoXSakura is still more likely since the MC almost always gets what he wants in the end and wins over the main heroin. 



> Well since I was right on that one, I'll risk another. Now that the NaruSaku side has been resolved


How has it been resolved? Naruto is still in love with Sakura and still plans to confess to her after keeping his promise and brining back Sasuke. That pairing will not be resolved until that exact moment in the story line where Naruto keeps his promise. To suggest otherwise is mind boggling.


----------



## Aiku (May 25, 2011)

Sasuke will obviously be with Itachi.


----------



## Dark Red Z (May 25, 2011)

*Sakura isn't IN LOVE with Sasuke.*

I just read today's issue, and my thoughts are these:

Sakura rejected the fodder-nin, NOT because she is in love with Sasuke and wants to be with him - but because she won't be at peace with herself until the Sasuke ordeal is done with. 

If she isn't at peace with herself, she cannot expect to be at peace with anyone else. She and her feelings would be too big a burden for anyone that attempt court her, so she rejected him in order to avoid a repeat of Naruto, whom she halfly responsible for enslaving in a 3-year promise because he loved her.

End.


----------



## Aiku (May 25, 2011)

I'm not convinced.


----------



## M4verick (May 25, 2011)

I really don't like either big pairings and I hope neither of them happen.  Sakura is a emo idiot and Hinata has no personality and all of who she is is based off of Naruto.


----------



## CrazyAries (May 25, 2011)

Dark Red Z said:


> I just read today's issue, and my thoughts are these:
> 
> Sakura rejected the fodder-nin, NOT because she is in love with Sasuke  and wants to be with him - but because she won't be at peace with  herself until the Sasuke ordeal is done with.
> 
> ...





Aiku said:


> I'm not convinced.



^Neither am I.


----------



## gabzilla (May 25, 2011)

ShadowReij said:


> Ah Kubo. If we're talking trolling one that comes to mind would Inuyasha, which actually did focus on romance yet the main pair did not even kiss. Fans were pissed if I recall. Another would be the orignal Yu-gi-oh, main female loves pharoah psh, he goes back in time. Kekkaishi is another where somehow the main pair happened but you wouldn't know it if you read the end chapter alone. Fine with me though. I think 666 was another not sure though, since that one I never even read. Just heard the opinions of some very unsatisfied fans. There is more than likely a lot more examples out there. But those are the ones I recall.



Rumiko tends to add lots of romance in all her stories, so...

Yu-gi-oh's romance was barely relevant. Never read Kekkaishi, so I can't comment on that one.

Kishimoto is one of the few shounen writers that constantly trolls with shipping shit.


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## Turrin (May 25, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> The moral of the story has nothing to do with Naruto getting into anybody's pants.


Yes the moral does have to do with that and its the same reason why in so many romance manga/anime you have this scenario where the MC tries his best and despite all odds ends up with the girl he's in love with. Now you can say this doesn't make sense, considering what happened in the Naruto storyline, but aren't you the same person whose constantly in these threads saying kishimoto is totally idiotic when it comes to knowing how to write these things? I'm simply in total support of that idea.

Edit: By the way if your looking for a mangaka that trolls Romance harder than Kishimoto than look at the author of School Rumble, that was the worst trolling I have ever seen and its much worse than Kishi since that was a Romance/Comedy manga.


----------



## Naruku (May 25, 2011)

kishi told us through manga she's in love with sasuke. i believe in kishi, you know, the author?


----------



## Drums (May 25, 2011)

> *but because she won't be at peace with herself until the Sasuke ordeal is done with*.


This is true. But I still believe she still feels for Sasuke. Those two facts go hand in hand.


----------



## runsakurarun (May 25, 2011)

So, Sakura is not allowed to have a change of heart but Naruto is for the sake of Hinata?!


----------



## Jeαnne (May 25, 2011)

Deana said:


> LOL and it is just as fail as the other pairings in Naruto.  Just to to arrogant to realize it.


at least they already kissed


----------



## ShadowReij (May 25, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> Rumiko tends to add lots of romance in all her stories, so...
> 
> Yu-gi-oh's romance was barely relevant. Never read Kekkaishi, so I can't comment on that one.
> 
> Kishimoto is one of the few shounen writers that constantly trolls with shipping shit.


Once again, doubt it, the whole shipping bit is part of the fanservice that sells shounen mangas. Kishi isn't alone in this common practice.


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## gabzilla (May 25, 2011)

Turrin said:


> Yes the moral does have to do with that and its the same reason why in so many *romance manga/anime* you have this scenario where the MC tries his best and despite all odds ends up with the girl he's in love with. Now you can say this doesn't make sense, considering what happened in the Naruto storyline, but aren't you the same person whose constantly in these threads saying kishimoto is totally idiotic when it comes to knowing how to write these things? I'm simply in total support of that idea.



Pst, this may be news to you but...

_Naruto is not a romance manga._

Kishimoto can't write romance to save his life. But you are implying Naruto getting in Sakura's pants is part of the moral of the story. It is not.



Turrin said:


> Edit: By the way if your looking for a mangaka that trolls Romance harder than Kishimoto than look at the author of School Rumble, that was the worst trolling I have ever seen and its much worse than Kishi since that was a Romance/Comedy manga.



I don't read harem manga/anime, sorry.


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## ShadowReij (May 25, 2011)

runsakurarun said:


> So, Sakura is not allowed to have a change of heart but Naruto is for the sake of Hinata?!



If Naruto's "feelings" for Sakura actually held any relevance for his character then you may have had a point. But those "feelings" don't.


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## Zaelapolopollo (May 25, 2011)

It's all just to build up drama for when they have to put Sasuke down like the rabid dog he is.


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## Juk3n (May 25, 2011)

ShadowReij said:


> If Naruto's "feelings" for Sakura actually held any relevance for his character then you may have had a point. But those "feelings" don't.



I don't think that argument holds much water. Naruto's feeling for Sakura may not be particularly relevant to his character, but Sakura's feelings for Naruto may end up being huge for hers in the end, if the manga goes the NaruSaku route. 

Her feelings for Naruto could become a major turning point for her personal story.


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## Supa Swag (May 25, 2011)

this roundabout shit is so boring.


So which Shonen author is worse at romance; Seo Kouji or Masashi Kishimoto? Kishimoto has some laughably awful romantic development that very few can match but Kouji's mangas, while they may not reach the incredible lows of Naruto in romance, revolve around romance and do a pretty poor job at doing so.


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## musgrave (May 25, 2011)

It's obvious that Sakura loves Sasuke and will end up with him. Same goes for Hinata and Naruto. Afterall when you are twelve, the chances of meeting the person you're supposed to be with for the rest of your life are pretty damn good. The chances are even better when it happens to two separate couples in the same village. They are 15 now, so it makes perfect sense that the flame burns brighter from 3 years ago, and will burn for eternity. /sarcasm

Kishi should just skip this crap with the shipping. It makes no sense.


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## Turrin (May 25, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> Pst, this may be news to you but...
> 
> _Naruto is not a romance manga._
> 
> Kishimoto can't write romance to save his life. But you are implying Naruto getting in Sakura's pants is part of the moral of the story. It is not.


Well let me rephrase then: In many mangas that have romance in them.



> I don't read harem manga/anime, sorry.


Its not a harem manga


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## Turrin (May 25, 2011)

Supa Swag said:


> this roundabout shit is so boring.
> 
> 
> So which Shonen author is worse at romance; Seo Kouji or Masashi Kishimoto? Kishimoto has some laughably awful romantic development that very few can match but Kouji's mangas, while they may not reach the incredible lows of Naruto in romance, revolve around romance and do a pretty poor job at doing so.



And the answer is Jin Kobayashi


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## Ultimania (May 25, 2011)

Sakura might still love Sasuke, but that does not mean Sasuke is going to be magically redeemed and will be allowed to return to Konoha. I actually semi-like Sasuke X Sakura (I still like Naruto X Sakura a million times more), but I do not see how this pairing is possible when Sasuke attempted to kill Sakura TWICE.


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## gabzilla (May 25, 2011)

Turrin said:


> Well let me rephrase then: In many mangas that have romance in them.



You don't say.

The point is that in many of them, romance is not one of the themes. Like in, you know, Naruto.



Turrin said:


> Its not a harem manga



Looks like it.

*reads description*

Ugh.


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## kenage (May 25, 2011)

Paring is just another trick lure people to keep buying the manga, it won't be solved either way until the end, let's just hope that the conclusion at lease makes some sense and leave us mildly satisfied.

Here is hoping for Naruhina, even if it isn't the most realistic approach.


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## ShadowReij (May 25, 2011)

Juk3n said:


> I don't think that argument holds much water. Naruto's feeling for Sakura may not be particularly relevant to his character, but Sakura's feelings for Naruto may end up being huge for hers in the end, if the manga goes the NaruSaku route.
> 
> Her feelings for Naruto could become a major turning point for her personal story.


What feelings? The only feelings she has are for Sasuke even Naruto gets that part.


Ultimania said:


> Sakura might still love Sasuke, *but that does not mean Sasuke is going to be magically redeemed and will be allowed to return to Konoha.* I actually semi-like Sasuke X Sakura (I still like Naruto X Sakura a million times more), but I do not see how this pairing is possible when Sasuke attempted to kill Sakura TWICE.



Really? You doubt that part? Itachi and Nagato have done so much worse. Also she's also tried to kill him too in retrospect or did you forget that really bad idea?


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## Skeith (May 25, 2011)

runsakurarun said:


> So, Sakura is not allowed to have a change of heart but Naruto is for the sake of Hinata?!



So you are saying Sakura is allow to have a change of heart, but Naruto can't?

Sure she can have a change of heart, but time and time again (and even in this chapter) shows that she STILLS loves Sasuke.


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## Turrin (May 25, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> You don't say.
> 
> The point is that in many of them, romance is not one of the themes. Like in, you know, Naruto.


Actually romance even in mangas were the main theme is not romance is a pretty common thing. For example:

1. Yu Yu Hakusho
2. Dragon Ball
3. Flame of Recca
4. Full Metal Alchemist
5. Berserk (Though this may be arguable)
6. Kekkaishi
7. History's Strongest Disciple
8. Fighting Ippo
9. Psyren
10. etc... (I could go on)

Kishimoto is just bad at romance, though he isn't the worst. 



> Looks like it.
> 
> *reads description*
> 
> Ugh.


It really isn't. The closest it gets to that is eventually two girls like the hero of the story, but I don't think that counts as a harem. Not that i'm saying you should read it, for the romance.


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## Fourangers (May 25, 2011)

I'll be just sincere and criticize Sakura to all it's worth.

I abhor the idea of NaruSaku when it's obvious that if Sakura ever ever ever decides to choose Naruto, it's because he's the rebound guy. Since I'm someone who likes Naruto, seeing Naruto's past and how much he worked hard to get the respect that he should be deserved from birth, if he's chosen because he's Sakura's "second best" is something puke worthy from the vomit you just ate when you were high to think logically. I hate the fact that Sakura will settle on Naruto if Naruto only deserves the best. 

That said, she's utterly disgusting for being aware of her feelings towards Sasuke and still going through the confession. If Naruto didn't suspect and for some crazy reason accepted her feelings, they would go on with a relationship when Naruto will be constantly emotionally cheated where Sakura have feelings for someone else and is CONSCIOUS about this fact. She plans to keep on lying to him till the very end? What a great character she is, truly great.

And that's why I also hate the idea of SasuSaku (among other reasons). Seeing Sakura being this type of character, you can say with a straight face that you're ok to let Sakura who lied to Naruto and hurt his feelings, have the opportunity to find her happiness herself (if Sasuke ever decides to return her one-sided feelings) when Naruto was conned by her and still have feelings for her? Really? Where's the morality of this story? 

In other words, I hope Sakura is left alone at the end of this manga. Whatever, if I really should accept one couple, no matter how undeveloped and how it'll be degrading for Hinata, then so be it. NaruHina is better than these two shitty couples. (by a hair)


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## gabzilla (May 25, 2011)

Turrin said:


> Actually romance even in mangas were the main theme is not romance is a pretty common thing. For example:
> 
> 1. Yu Yu Hakusho
> 2. Dragon Ball
> ...



..I guess you missed the sarcasm.

Most of the examples that you provided just prove my point. Romance is not one of the main themes in shounen. Bonds, brotherhood and yada yada are much more important. 

It's certainly not a main theme in Naruto.

Heck, the last time Naruto mentioned his goals, after his talk with Kushina, romance was the one he _left out_.



Turrin said:


> It really isn't. The closest it gets to that is eventually two girls like the hero of the story, but I don't think that counts as a harem. Not that i'm saying you should read it, for the romance.



Only two girls? Then it's not harem.


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## Bellville (May 25, 2011)

Fourangers said:


> Where's the morality of this story?


True Love. Your argument is invalid.


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## Fourangers (May 25, 2011)

Bellville said:


> True Love. Your argument is invalid.



Well, I can say a word or two about the True Love *I* ship.


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## Renyou (May 25, 2011)

Hinata using Naruto as motivation, nothing new there. She pops up once in a while to bring that up, it's a very patient love and... ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

Sakura believing Sasuke is the man for her, nothing new yet again. Gotta admire her everlasting hope to be his girlfriend, I guess you should never give up your dreams, no matter how much they try to kill you. Is that the message you're trying to send us, Kishi? 

That being said, I have absolutely no respect for Kishi as a writer. He should have never even once hinted at NaruSaku if he was going to make Sakura a one-man girl. It's like he's trying to test the patience of the pairing fans to see how long they can last before they drop the manga. He really is a troll after all, and after this chapter, I'm a 100% certain it's going to be an open ending.


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## Lovely (May 25, 2011)

*rolls eyes*

I distinctly remember many having the same reaction with 469, 474, 484...

What I want to know is how is this surprising? Kishimoto already confirmed Sakura's feelings before this, anyway. Nothing is new.


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## ajinko (May 25, 2011)

lol at people saying kishimoto is bad at romance. u guys are just saying that because things didn't go the way u wanted them to go.


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## Seto Kaiba (May 25, 2011)

ajinko said:


> lol at people saying kishimoto is bad at romance. u guys are just saying that because things didn't go the way u wanted them to go.



Having romantic feelings for a guy that tried to kill you three times is retarded regardless of how one wanted things to be. Most of the people exasperated with it really had no expectations pairing-wise, you're making a retarded claim.


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## Lovely (May 25, 2011)

To make this clear:

On the issue of Sakura looking saddened, I'm pretty sure it has more to do with Sasuke's overall behavior and less of her being unsure/ashamed of her own feelings. When prompted, she didn't hesitate in answering that she liked someone else. 

While generally downtrodden because Sasuke isn't some great guy like the fodder suggested (far from it, at this point), there is no second guessing on how _she_ feels.


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## Iamacloud (May 25, 2011)

Lovely said:


> *rolls eyes*
> 
> I distinctly remember many having the same reaction with 469, 474, 484...
> 
> What I want to know is how is this surprising? Kishimoto already confirmed Sakura's feelings before this, anyway. Nothing is new.



I.... can't... resist.... I'm sorry, I'm too evil.

Don't look in the spoilers tag if you support NaruSaku and can't take some a lot of sarcasm directed at you.


*Spoiler*: _Seriously, I might hurt your feelings_ 




*Spoiler*: _Don't click this_ 




*Spoiler*: _NaruSaku died in 469_ 




*Spoiler*: _You sure you wanna go further?_ 




*Spoiler*: _Last warning_ 



For this bunch of spoiler tags

















*Spoiler*: _This is worse_ 




*Spoiler*: _Final warning_ 




*Spoiler*: __ 




Chapters 3-468

Naruto really loves Sakura, and Sai confirmed to us even after Hinata's confession, Naruto still loves Sakura, and Naruto and Sakura have a lot of development together, and there have been signs of Sakura warming up to Naruto all through part 2. I'm sure she has been getting over Sasuke, even though it hasn't been shown, her growing love for Naruto is proof enough. And now, she knows Naruto loves her, and is going to talk to him about Sasuke, there's no way she can still be in love with that guy. 



Chapter 469-470

The confession clearly wasn't a complete lie. Obviously she still has latent feelings from her childish crush on Sasuke, but she was truthful in her reasons for loving Naruto and she only wants to protect him. Naruto is wrong, he was only thinking about part 1 Sakura, thus he still believes she is hung up on Sasuke and can't believe she has fallen for him.



Chapter 474

Again Naruto showing how little he understands Sakura, and what does Sai know about emotions anyway? Just because 4 people close to Sakura seemed to agree doesn't mean it's what Sakura thinks. Sakura said it herself, she is the only one to know her own feelings. Plus it's obvious that she's putting Naruto above Sasuke since she's going to kill Sasuke, not Naruto.



Chapter 484

Sakura couldn't kill Sasuke not because of her feelings now, but because she remembered how she loved the old Sasuke, back in the Jurassic, in the days of black and white radio. And she came to Naruto's defense in front of Sasuke, clearly she is in love with Naruto and not that bastard who just tried to kill her twice.



Chapter 540

At the end of the story, when Naruto saves Sasuke, Sakura will realize that Naruto is the true love of her life, and that she was wrong for loving Sasuke all that time. It's obvious and has been all along. I totally trust that helicopter.


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## MinatoEMS (May 25, 2011)

i am kind of hoping on Naruto and hinata...I have nothing against naruto and sakura...but that woman punched him after saving an entire village lol .. so abusive!

and hinata is so cute and shy and has cared for naruto all along, and to me thats sweet.


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## Renyou (May 26, 2011)

Iamacloud said:


> At the end of the story, when Naruto saves Sasuke, Sakura will realize that Naruto is the true love of her life, and that she was wrong for loving Sasuke all that time. It's obvious and has been all along. I totally trust that helicopter.



Blah Blah Blah, this is the same double standards pairing fans have been using since forever. You can basically replace Sakura with Naruto and Naruto with Hinata and the same exact logic will apply. Your attempt at sarcasm fails for that very reason.

NaruSaku may be dead as far as Sakura is concerned, but Naruto doesn't seem to mind this. He still has feelings for her either way.

Like I said before, an open ending has never been more obvious, and I would already be prepared for it if I were you.


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## Mizura (May 26, 2011)

ajinko said:


> lol at people saying kishimoto is bad at romance. u guys are just saying that because things didn't go the way u wanted them to go.


Uh, no, it's because his romantic instances lack consistency and follow-up. Like, Hinata confessed to Naruto then the confession was all but forgotten. And Sakura "confessed" to Naruto and that ended up... weirdly? Now Sakura is still thinking about Sasuke, but the problem is that when was the last time there was any follow-up on the Sasuke part of the equation?

I may be a NaruSaku fan but, even I can tell that the only part actually getting developed is Naruto chasing Sasuke's skirt. If I want to read about male-female relationships, I'm obviously not getting it from This manga.


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## Empathy (May 26, 2011)

I'm only in favor of the Sakura x Fodder that was really Zetsu and killed those two pissing guys, fodder.


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## auem (May 26, 2011)

i think sakura still carries those moments when naruto henged into sasuke and shown interest in her...sakura always has had crush on sasuke,but her love may began to sprout from that point...only other time we see sasuke as gentle & caring(when not in a mission) to sakura is when he said her goodbye before putting her to sleep during his escaped...

i wonder what sakura will think if she ever knows that it was really naruto back then...

as of now it clearly seems sasu-saku will be together at the end...as i expect kishi will ultimately redeem sasuke...


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## NarutoIzDaMan (May 26, 2011)

auem said:


> as of now it clearly seems sasu-saku will be together at the end...as i expect kishi will ultimately redeem sasuke...



The only way SasuSaku can truly happen at this point is if Sakuara and Sasuke BOTH feel entirely guilt-free (which I don't see happening) about what they have both put Naruto through, after Sasuke is redeemed. Today's chapter pretty much hinted that even if Sasuke is redeemed and Sakura is free to "pursue" him again, she will still feel terribly ashamed/guilty of her feelings for him because of everything he has put her and especially Naruto (the guy who has been by her side through thick and thin) through. 

Basically, Sasuke would have to be totally okay with hooking up with his "best friend's" love interest even after everything bad he did to Naruto and after everything good Naruto has done and will do for him (not exactly the best way to show gratitude if you know what I mean). As for Sakura, she has to be totally okay with hooking up with a guy who tried to killed her twice over the guy who saved her life FROM the guy who attempted to kill her. 

So even if NaruSaku doesn't become canon in the end (I still believe it will cuz the name of the manga is NARUTO and he will most likely get everything he has wanted and desired since the beginning - Sakura's love included), it's hard to imagine that SasuSaku under ANY circumstances will. Of course, knowing Kishi's trolling ways anything is possible, but still...


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## auem (May 26, 2011)

NarutoIzDaMan said:


> The only way SasuSaku can truly happen at this point is if Sakuara and Sasuke BOTH feel entirely guilt-free (which I don't see happening) about what they have both put Naruto through, after Sasuke is redeemed. Today's chapter pretty much hinted that even if Sasuke is redeemed and Sakura is free to "pursue" him again, she will still feel terribly ashamed/guilty of her feelings for him because of everything he has put her and especially Naruto (the guy who has been by her side through thick and thin) through.
> 
> Basically, Sasuke would have to be totally okay with hooking up with his "best friend's" love interest even after everything bad he did to Naruto and after everything good Naruto has done and will do for him (not exactly the best way to show gratitude if you know what I mean). As for Sakura, she has to be totally okay with hooking up with a guy who tried to killed her twice over the guy who saved her life FROM the guy who attempted to kill her.
> 
> So even if NaruSaku doesn't become canon in the end (I still believe it will cuz the name of the manga is NARUTO and he will most likely get everything he has wanted and desired since the beginning - Sakura's love included), it's hard to imagine that SasuSaku under ANY circumstances will. Of course, knowing Kishi's trolling ways anything is possible, but still...



seeing how sakura has had treated naruto in the whole manga,i kinda feel sad even if naruto ends up with sakura...hinata shown so much  more love...kishi have to make sakura do something outrageous and courageous for naruto to make it acceptable..


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## Mr Horrible (May 26, 2011)

Fourangers said:


> I'll be just sincere and criticize Sakura to all it's worth.
> 
> I abhor the idea of NaruSaku when it's obvious that if Sakura ever ever ever decides to choose Naruto, it's because he's the rebound guy. Since I'm someone who likes Naruto, seeing Naruto's past and how much he worked hard to get the respect that he should be deserved from birth, if he's chosen because he's Sakura's "second best" is something puke worthy from the vomit you just ate when you were high to think logically. I hate the fact that Sakura will settle on Naruto if Naruto only deserves the best.



What constitutes being a rebound guy? I thought it was only after a break up that a girl could rebound. 

I've also taken the approach of waiting to see what happens (not in regards to SS, even Kishi mocks it now apparently) in terms of how Sakura will turn off Sasuke (and perhaps onto Naruto).



> That said, she's utterly disgusting for being aware of her feelings towards Sasuke and still going through the confession. If Naruto didn't suspect and for some crazy reason accepted her feelings, they would go on with a relationship when Naruto will be constantly emotionally cheated where Sakura have feelings for someone else and is CONSCIOUS about this fact. She plans to keep on lying to him till the very end? What a great character she is, truly great.



To be fair to Sakura, there was some sort of realization going on when she wanted to kill Sasuke at the summit. It's obvious the girl didn't quite know her emotions like she thought she did. 

Honestly even if she managed to convince Naruto to return to Konoha, I imagine she would have found an excuse to leave on the way back to go assassinate Sasuke.

I note that you dislike Naruto being Sakura's 'second choice' it is in this arc that she certainly seems to choose Naruto over Sasuke quite a bit, even though it's probably not romantic. I guess it's that sort of stuff that makes me think Naruto won't ever be second best to Sasuke for Sakura anymore, they've been through too much for that. Compare the trust and care Sakura shows in/for Naruto to what she must have for Sasuke, why I could make the argument that if SS happens, Sasuke would take a back seat to Naruto.

After all, as hot as Sasuke may be, it's Naruto who's been there for Sakura multiple times.



> And that's why I also hate the idea of SasuSaku (among other reasons). Seeing Sakura being this type of character, you can say with a straight face that you're ok to let Sakura who lied to Naruto and hurt his feelings, have the opportunity to find her happiness herself (if Sasuke ever decides to return her one-sided feelings) when Naruto was conned by her and still have feelings for her? Really? Where's the morality of this story?



To be fair, the only interpretation I can stomach of Sakura still having feelings for Sasuke is that she realizes they are a bad thing and he is certainly not the 'great guy' he should be. This is coming hot on the heels of the events of the Kage Summit, so I could argue the murder attempts did actually have a severe impact, however it's only showing now.



> In other words, I hope Sakura is left alone at the end of this manga. Whatever, if I really should accept one couple, no matter how undeveloped and how it'll be degrading for Hinata, then so be it. NaruHina is better than these two shitty couples. (by a hair)



I too hope she gets a little alone time somewhere, as she tends to kick quite a lot of ass when unhindered.

Actually this brings up a point about Sakura's character I'd like to see changed; why are her emotions almost always portrayed as negative? She only ever seems hindered by them and while that may make sense for normal ninja, Naruto shows that it's quite possible to draw strength from emotions.



Lovely said:


> To make this clear:
> 
> On the issue of Sakura looking saddened, I'm pretty sure it has more to do with Sasuke's overall behavior and less of her being unsure/ashamed of her own feelings. When prompted, she didn't hesitate in answering that she liked someone else.



When Kishi himself is making glib jokes about the lingering feelings Sakura has for Sasuke, how can you expect these feelings to make it to the end of the manga?

As for why Sakura didn't hesitate; she's loved the guy for 3-4 years now, it must be her default response to say she's in love with someone. Add to that the convenience with which it gets rid of an unwanted suitor and she has no reason to make it more complicated (even though Kishi does when he shows Sasuke and Sakura's sadness). 

One more note; SS seems to survive off of Sakura's emotional turmoil like a leech. If she is ever happy with Sasuke gone, then the pairing becomes less likely, so it keeps Sakura stricken until Sasuke returns to his fair maiden. I will never be a fan of a pairing that features the female participant in tears for much of 3 years, with no real positives to note.



> While generally downtrodden because Sasuke isn't some great guy like the fodder suggested (far from it, at this point), there is no second guessing on how _she_ feels.



I have to disagree with this. I guess I'll say it again; considering the panel time given to the romantic subplot, an open ending doesn't look all that likely. This means that in the big 3, something has to give; someone needs to move on from their feelings. Now we know Hinata hasn't, and doesn't want to; we've seen nothing from Naruto that suggests he has/wants to, and then we get to Sakura. Again and again her feelings have been portrayed as a negative thing, an emotional curse if you will. Now skip past the murder attempts and we have Sakura looking sad when she thinks of how Sasuke isn't a 'great guy'. 

Tell me, which pairing looks the most likely to dissolve to you?


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## SSGG (May 26, 2011)

Renyou said:


> NaruSaku may be dead as far as Sakura is concerned, but Naruto doesn't seem to mind this. He still has feelings for her either way.
> 
> Like I said before, an open ending has never been more obvious, and I would already be prepared for it if I were you.


 
I don't know, it's been quite a while since Naruto's feelings for Sakura have been mentioned(atleast by Naruto himself). While Hinata's feelings for Naruto and Sakura's feelings for Sasuke keep getting reassured, we haven't seen anything lately from Naruto's side that suggests he still has romantic feelings for Sakura(knowing Kishi's writing style, this could all change next chapter though...).

I could totally see an open ending happening, just so Kishi doesn't have to deal with tying up the romance "subplots" in the end. Though at the same time, the way he's written his romance so far suggests that atleast Naruto will get with someone by the end of the story, if not any of the other characters(minus whoever hooks up with Naruto). And that way, he can write a sequel about Naruto's kids and make even _more_ money...


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## Bellville (May 26, 2011)

Lovely said:


> To make this clear:
> 
> On the issue of Sakura looking saddened, I'm pretty sure it has more to do with Sasuke's overall behavior and less of her being unsure/ashamed of her own feelings. When prompted, she didn't hesitate in answering that she liked someone else.
> 
> While generally downtrodden because Sasuke isn't some great guy like the fodder suggested (far from it, at this point), there is no second guessing on how _she_ feels.



I don't think she's unsure about a thing at this point. She's surrendered to the idea that she loves Sasuke.

If she isn't ashamed of it or feeling shitty, especially after what she said to Naruto in chapter 469, whoo boy, that's just one more point against her. If she has any shame, she would hold no pride in those feelings of hers at this point.


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## naster (May 26, 2011)

I'm thinking:
NaruxHina
LeexSaku
SasuxKarin

Love is made in the battle field... Sasuke blind and seemingly alone after war. Karin becomes his eyes.


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## Fourangers (May 26, 2011)

Mr.Horrible, there are some parts that would force me to defend Sakura's feelings towards Sasuke and it'll sound like SasuSaku. So I'd rather slit my throat and throw my head to the lions instead of doing that. 

So I'll only answer the parts that makes me puke less.



Mr Horrible said:


> What constitutes being a rebound guy? I thought it was only after a break up that a girl could rebound.



Maybe, but in this instance is Sakura's having romantic feelings for Sasuke, even after this whole....murder attempt+one-sided feelings+he's a criminal, she can't change her feelings to Naruto who she knows logically that he's a better option in every possible way. She can't, maybe in the next two, three years but at this point I don't think that Kishimoto will make another time-skip and after deliberately showing this panel, I don't want to. She's not going to change her heart after this. If she ends up choosing Naruto, it's because she logically knows that chasing romantically after Sasuke is no good so she settles on Naruto. This very thought disgusts me into unbearable levels that I don't even...

That's a rebound.



> To be fair to Sakura, there was some sort of realization going on when she wanted to kill Sasuke at the summit. It's obvious the girl didn't quite know her emotions like she thought she did.



Fine, but she was sure she didn't like Naruto romantically. If she didn't, she wouldn't put the whole Confession facade of "Oh Naruto, you love me right? I love you too. I'm such an awesome trophy now let's go back to Konoha." She may not be sure that she still maintained romantic feelings towards Sasuke, but Sakura straining herself into liking Naruto romantically showed that she can't, this latest chapter was the last nail on the coffin.



> I note that you dislike Naruto being Sakura's 'second choice' it is in this arc that she certainly seems to choose Naruto over Sasuke quite a bit, even though it's probably not romantic. I



Quite a bit? *ONCE.* The Shippudden part I believe that Naruto and Sasuke held equal importance in Sakura's heart, as she wanted Naruto to be safe from Akatsuki, Sasuke should go back to restore the Team 7 bonds. At it was only when Sai said the thing that everyone knew but Sakura "didn't", Shikamaru reinforced that they should stop Sasuke since he's a criminal, that Sakura took action.

And even so, after all the confusion, she let her feelings she has for Sasuke stop her in the crucial second and if it wasn't for Naruto she would be dead meat. Now I'm not saying that she put Sasuke over Naruto, but her feelings pulls her back.

I was happy the fact that she defended Naruto when Sasuke called Naruto an outsider, but that's all.



> I guess it's that sort of stuff that makes me think Naruto won't ever be second best to Sasuke for Sakura anymore, they've been through too much for that.



I'm saying that Sakura can't have romantic feelings towards Naruto, if she ever chooses Naruto it's because Sasuke is not a viable option. PERIOD. She simply can't. I don't understand either, no one understands, I think not even Kishimoto knows, but even if they have been through too much, even if Sakura trusts Naruto more than Sasuke every since the hospital incident, for whatever reasons, she can't like Naruto romantically, not inside this manga.

Seriously, why are you mixing two entirely different situations? Sakura may put Naruto in a higher level of trust and importance at this point of the story but this have no relation with to whom she'll like romantically speaking. Well, I wish it was correlated but it seems for Kishimoto they are separate things.



> Actually this brings up a point about Sakura's character I'd like to see changed; why are her emotions almost always portrayed as negative? She only ever seems hindered by them and while that may make sense for normal ninja, Naruto shows that it's quite possible to draw strength from emotions.



I have no idea. Maybe it's Kishimoto way of saying that Women are emotional creatures that only screw up while Manly guys can properly use emotions as a tool of strength. Meh. There was once when the Team 7 bonds was an inspiration to make Sakura determined and stronger.

Maybe the fact that she's so torn apart with "Oh, whom should I choose as my future husband?" makes things a tad difficult.


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## Mr Horrible (May 26, 2011)

Fourangers said:


> Mr.Horrible, there are some parts that would force me to defend Sakura's feelings towards Sasuke and it'll sound like SasuSaku. So I'd rather slit my throat and throw my head to the lions instead of doing that.
> 
> So I'll only answer the parts that makes me puke less.



That is definately understandable .



> Maybe, but in this instance is Sakura's having romantic feelings for Sasuke, even after this whole....murder attempt+one-sided feelings+he's a criminal, she can't change her feelings to Naruto who she knows logically that he's a better option in every possible way. She can't, maybe in the next two, three years but at this point I don't think that Kishimoto will make another time-skip and after deliberately showing this panel, I don't want to. She's not going to change her heart after this. If she ends up choosing Naruto, it's because she logically knows that chasing romantically after Sasuke is no good so she settles on Naruto. This very thought disgusts me into unbearable levels that I don't even...
> 
> That's a rebound.



My point is that this could be the precursor to character development for Sakura. It's because of the murder attempts that Sakura looks so down when the fodder nin remarks that any guy who won her heart must be great. You mention Kishi specifically showing this panel; why would he include that jab at SS if he intended it to become canon? 

When we get down to it, exactly how much difference is there between romantic love and platonic love, particularly friendship? While yes, there is a noticeable gap between them, both share several key points that need to be fulfilled. I mean trust and respect are pretty central elements to any relationship, which Sakura has in plentiful amounts towards Naruto. Hell, SS seems to crutch on that romantic interest Sakura has towards Sasuke without any of the things that make up real love.



> Fine, but she was sure she didn't like Naruto romantically. If she didn't, she wouldn't put the whole Confession facade of "Oh Naruto, you love me right? I love you too. I'm such an awesome trophy now let's go back to Konoha." She may not be sure that she still maintained romantic feelings towards Sasuke, but Sakura straining herself into liking Naruto romantically showed that she can't, this latest chapter was the last nail on the coffin.



That confession was all about Naruto though, so I don't know how you get Sakura having no feelings for him from that, really they were unimportant to the matter. 

As far as straining herself to like Naruto, wouldn't a similar situation come about if she tried to rush her developing feelings forward?

Also as far as nails in the coffin goes; each time Kishi reminds us of the negative effects loving Sasuke has on Sakura, I'd consider that another nail in the coffin. 



> Quite a bit? *ONCE.* The Shippudden part I believe that Naruto and Sasuke held equal importance in Sakura's heart, as she wanted Naruto to be safe from Akatsuki, Sasuke should go back to restore the Team 7 bonds. At it was only when Sai said the thing that everyone knew but Sakura "didn't", Shikamaru reinforced that they should stop Sasuke since he's a criminal, that Sakura took action.



Sure, at the start of part 2 Naruto and Sasuke may have been equally important to Sakura, however in recent chapters that is certainly not true;
[sp][/sp]
Sakura says it best herself 

Unless of course you think that Sakura was lying then, but it's doubtful. Of course, you can add in Sakura defending Naruto from Sasuke, a stark turnabout from the beginning of the series.



> And even so, after all the confusion, she let her feelings she has for Sasuke stop her in the crucial second and if it wasn't for Naruto she would be dead meat. Now I'm not saying that she put Sasuke over Naruto, but her feelings pulls her back.
> 
> I was happy the fact that she defended Naruto when Sasuke called Naruto an outsider, but that's all.



I've never claimed that love was easy to get over. Even after seeing who Sasuke truly is now, Sakura couldn't bring herself to kill him out because of memories of who he was (and it's debatable Sakura even knew that). I have yet to see any evidence of Sakura putting Sasuke above Naruto throughout all of part 2, whereas there is some quite telling evidence for the inverse.



> I'm saying that Sakura can't have romantic feelings towards Naruto, if she ever chooses Naruto it's because Sasuke is not a viable option. PERIOD. She simply can't. I don't understand either, no one understands, I think not even Kishimoto knows, but even if they have been through too much, even if Sakura trusts Naruto more than Sasuke every since the hospital incident, for whatever reasons, she can't like Naruto romantically, not inside this manga.



Firstly, of course Sakura trusts Naruto more than Sasuke since the hospital scene (or even at the PoaL), that isn't debatable. Also I'd say Sakura will get over Sasuke because he isn't who she thought he was. As far as Sakura simply being unable to look at Naruto in that light, I guess I'd have to bring up all the ship tease throughout part 2 for NS (most apparent to me is the ramen scene).



> Seriously, why are you mixing two entirely different situations? Sakura may put Naruto in a higher level of trust and importance at this point of the story but this have no relation with to whom she'll like romantically speaking. Well, I wish it was correlated but it seems for Kishimoto they are separate things.



Well to me, love is all about trust and being able to depend on your partner (note that depend can mean lots of things). So if there is no trust, how can there be real love? Of course I guess this is my own personal opinion, but I thought the basis of it was solid.

My explanation for Sakura's actions still centers around her not truly knowing Sasuke. 



> I have no idea. Maybe it's Kishimoto way of saying that Women are emotional creatures that only screw up while Manly guys can properly use emotions as a tool of strength. Meh. There was once when the Team 7 bonds was an inspiration to make Sakura determined and stronger.



Why am I only thinking of one bond in particular that weakens Sakura?

Inb4 KN4!Naruto.



> Maybe the fact that she's so torn apart with "Oh, whom should I choose as my future husband?" makes things a tad difficult.



I've said this before, but it looks like one/some of the big 3 will be canonised by the end of Naruto, there's simply too much subplot for Kishi not to resolve it. So we have Sakura not wanting to be in love with Sasuke... Isn't it apparent that SS is still the least likely pairing of the three? I mean someone's got to break the stalemate and Sakura is the most likely choice considering she's already given up twice before.


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## Subject7 (May 26, 2011)

What disappoints me is that we are at chapter 540 and the situation is exactly the same as chapter 1. In the last 100/150 chapters things changed a bit and this had me interested more than usual about the romance, because something was actually changing. In other words, there was a bit of character development in regards to romance, and that's not usual in a Shonen (not in the way Kishimoto did it anyway), and i liked that because it added something to the story, even if it was a secondary thing. But with this chapter, Kishi once again stopped every kind of development, just when he had the chance to give a lot of doubts to the readers by not revealing who Sakura was thinking about.

In the future, Kishi will simply give new clues about NaruSaku, then 20/30 chapters later he will give some NaruHina or SasuSaku hints, and he will go on like this just like he did so far, until the end of the manga when he will finally reveal how things will go, one way or another. And that's exactly what disappoints me, because doing so means we won't get any kind of serious development until the end, even though Kishi had the chance to make his characters mature (especially Sakura), but instead he chose to keep trolling every 20/30 chapters. Don't get me wrong, i know that any writer worth something won't fully reveal such things until the end, but there must be some development to make some sense in the end, and right now i don't see any sense about romance in this manga.

Unless this situation changes, and i really hope it does, this will result in an ending way less interesting than it could be in regards to Naruto's feelings, because it will feel forced no matter if he ends up with Sakura, Hinata, or whoever you like.


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## Tion (May 26, 2011)

NaruSaku isn't dead because we haven't had Naruto's feelings confirmed. It's close though


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## Naruko (May 26, 2011)

Subject7 said:


> What disappoints me is that we are at chapter 540 and the situation is exactly the same as chapter 1. In the last 100/150 chapters things changed a bit and this had me interested more than usual about the romance, because something was actually changing. In other words, there was a bit of character development in regards to romance, and that's not usual in a Shonen (not in the way Kishimoto did it anyway), and i liked that because it added something to the story, even if it was a secondary thing. But with this chapter, Kishi once again stopped every kind of development, just when he had the chance to give a lot of doubts to the readers by not revealing who Sakura was thinking about.
> 
> In the future, Kishi will simply give new clues about NaruSaku, then 20/30 chapters later he will give some NaruHina or SasuSaku hints, and he will go on like this just like he did so far, until the end of the manga when he will finally reveal how things will go, one way or another. And that's exactly what disappoints me, because doing so means we won't get any kind of serious development until the end, even though Kishi had the chance to make his characters mature (especially Sakura), but instead he chose to keep trolling every 20/30 chapters. Don't get me wrong, i know that any writer worth something won't fully reveal such things until the end, but there must be some development to make some sense in the end, and right now i don't see any sense about romance in this manga.
> 
> Unless this situation changes, and i really hope it does, this will result in an ending way less interesting than it could be in regards to Naruto's feelings, because it will feel forced no matter if he ends up with Sakura, Hinata, or whoever you like.



I understand you (and many pairing fans) are disappointed about the lack of development but this isn't Rumiko Takahashi writing this. It's Kishi and it's a shonen. He barely shows confirmed relationships (Kurenai and Asuma), I don't think he's comfortable "doing" romances. And with only 17 pages per chapter and the manga is about Naruto wanting to become Hokage, saving his friend and possibly wanting to change the way the ninja world works, romance is again going to be the area that takes a hit. 

Just saying, don't get your hopes up on romantic development. If there are any hints there, so be it, but I've never held out hope on any real development. I'd be happy for Naruto to end up with *anyone*, just so I know he will have love in his life, but I would be hugely surprised to see Kishi develop that.


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## Hitt (May 26, 2011)

Naruko said:


> I'd be happy for Naruto to end up with *anyone*, just so I know he will have love in his life, but I would be hugely surprised to see Kishi develop that.



Ok, point taken.  But then why waste so many panels on this romance at all?  You made another point that we have limited real estate here, with 17 pages to develop anything in a chapter.  Yet he added all this crap in last chapter and this one to show us what Hinata and Sakura are thinking...with obvious romantic implications.

If he's not going to follow through with this, then he can damn sure take that crap out and use it to develop something else.  Think about it, if the whole love fodder guy and Hinata's "Naruto-kun!" panels are taken out, would they have _really_ detracted from the plot being conveyed otherwise?  I don't think so anyway.



auem said:


> i think sakura still carries those moments when naruto henged into sasuke and shown interest in her...sakura always has had crush on sasuke,but her love may began to sprout from that point...
> 
> i wonder what sakura will think if she ever knows that it was really naruto back then...



Oh heavens...I forgot all about this.  How does that moment rank with her good memories of Sasuke...and does she rank that among the highest, if not most so?  How WILL she react if she ever found out that was Naruto instead?

Ugh.


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## Chaelius (May 26, 2011)

Reading last week's threads   is fun 




Hitt said:


> Oh heavens...I forgot all about this.  How does that moment rank with her good memories of Sasuke...and does she rank that among the highest, if not most so?  How WILL she react if she ever found out that was Naruto instead?
> 
> Ugh.



Unless I'm forgetting something(I might be) she has never even thought about that moment at all, except for the part where the real Sasuke puts her in TOLD status and tells her she's annoying.


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## Arya Stark (May 26, 2011)

Can he make an open ending at this point? It's pretty disgusting for all 3 pairings.

Or he can make NaruKari I dunno.

All I know is...



Goodbye NaruSaku,never will be missed.


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## AoshiKun (May 26, 2011)

Most likely the only chance to Sakura ends up with Naruto is Sasuke dying. _Every_ NS argument I saw were proved wrong during this 7 years. During Part II Sakura accepted Naruto, from a loser he became a "perfect" hero while Sasuke fell even more into darkness. Naruto can't become better and Sasuke can't become worse and _after all_ she stills love the Uchiha. It isn't that Kishimoto is doing a horrible job but that he wants to show how much Sakura loves Sasuke.

IMO Hinata's love for Naruto is around the same intensity these 2 girls feelings will hardly... hardly change to not say never while Naruto's feelings for Sakura seems weaker more like a crush than love.

Are people  really thinking after all that Sakura will suddenly falls for Naruto and Hinata will end with someone else? More than 540 chapters to show how much those girls love those guys for in the end in a few chapters Kishimoto change everything? If it happens, Kishimoto is going to be the worst romance maker ever.


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## Addy (May 26, 2011)

A and tsunade > jiraya and tsunade  

naruhina narusaku = crapxshit


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## FoxxyKat (May 26, 2011)

Man, people are a damn lie if they say pairings aren't important to them in Naruto. Look at how many posts this thread has gotten compared to the others in the telegram.



Fourangers said:


> I'll be just sincere and criticize Sakura to all it's worth.
> 
> I abhor the idea of NaruSaku when it's obvious that if Sakura ever ever ever decides to choose Naruto, it's because he's the rebound guy. Since I'm someone who likes Naruto, seeing Naruto's past and how much he worked hard to get the respect that he should be deserved from birth, if he's chosen because he's Sakura's "second best" is something puke worthy from the vomit you just ate when you were high to think logically. I hate the fact that Sakura will settle on Naruto if Naruto only deserves the best.
> 
> ...


I didn't even realize that it was you, Four, who I quoted, lol. You speak awesome truth as always.



Moon~ said:


> All I know is...
> 
> 
> 
> Goodbye NaruSaku,never will be missed.


See ya, Narusaku. God, I despised that pairing. So worthless.


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## Lovely (May 26, 2011)

A little hesitant to claim anything is dead at this point. While NaruSaku looks unlikely given the prospects of Sakura liking Naruto and the whole Hinata situation, Kishimoto likes to troll. 

I would wait a little more before jumping to conclusions.


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## yukiko♥ (May 26, 2011)

Now that NaruSaku is dead let's see what happens next to SS, NH and SN.


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## Dokiz1 (May 26, 2011)

yukiko♥ said:


> Now that NaruSaku is dead let's see what happens next to SS, NH and SN.



Well if NS is dead then i don't even know how can someone believe SS is alive. 



what's nh?


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## Bellville (May 26, 2011)

AoshiKun said:


> It isn't that Kishimoto is doing a horrible job but that he wants to show how much Sakura loves Sasuke.


She can't control her feelings. Her love is unconditional. Whatever it is-- at this point and long before, it hasn't done her a lick of good.



> IMO Hinata's love for Naruto is around the same intensity these 2 girls feelings will hardly... hardly change to not say never while Naruto's feelings for Sakura seems weaker more like a crush than love.


But it's stated that he is in love with Sakura. Your projection of what you might want isn't going to change the facts. His love might seem like less because the boys in this manga seem to have an easier time keeping their shit together than girls do in the emotions department.



> Are people  really thinking after all that Sakura will suddenly falls for Naruto and Hinata will end with someone else? More than 540 chapters to show how much those girls love those guys for in the end in a few chapters Kishimoto change everything? If it happens, Kishimoto is going to be the worst romance maker ever.


I could say the same about Naruto's feelings. He's liked Sakura since chapter 3, fell in love with her at some point, but because you don't think it's "intense", he will not only get over Sakura but fall for Hinata, just because _Hinata_ loves _him_?

Didn't this argument fall flat on its face for NaruSaku? It's a double standard if I've ever seen one.


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## zuul (May 26, 2011)

And I naively though Kishi was done with the het pairing trolling, so that he could concentrate on his fail yaoi.


But apparently he's cruel and wants all of the big four to benefit of his horrible sense of romance.


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## gabzilla (May 26, 2011)

LOL nothing is dead, you'd think people would know that by now.


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## mayumi (May 26, 2011)

regarding the whole naruto still loves sakura part. lets look at kushina's flashback when she asks him to choose a girl similar to her but naruto never choose anyone when he was doing the list of things to follow mom's advise.
i think naruo has reached a point where he is content with not being with sakura. it is not the most important thing to him anymore.


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## zuul (May 26, 2011)

mayumi said:


> regarding the whole naruto still loves sakura part. lets look at kushina's flashback when she asks him to choose a girl similar to her but naruto never choose anyone when he was doing the list of things to follow mom's advise.
> i think naruo has reached a point where he is content with not being with sakura. it is not the most important thing to him anymore.



The most important thing to him is to be reunited with Psychosuke.  He doesn't look to care much about Sakura anymore. He didn't seem to care much about Sasuke's attempting to choke her to death.


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## Will Of Fire (May 26, 2011)

Who says Naruto still loves Sakura? Naruto didn't look like he was in love in ch. 469. 

Boy loves Sasuke. Fear SN.


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## Turrin (May 26, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> Most of the examples that you provided just prove my point. Romance is not one of the main themes in shounen. Bonds, brotherhood and yada yada are much more important.
> 
> It's certainly not a main theme in Naruto.
> 
> Heck, the last time Naruto mentioned his goals, after his talk with Kushina, romance was the one he _left out_.


Well Naruto is kind of a weird series when it comes to romance. I mean on one hand its clearly not as important of an issue as Naruto defeating the villains, bring back Sasuke, and somehow creating a more peaceful world, but on the other hand the main heroin's character is entirely romance centric and Kishi does throw in romance at crucial points of the story line. So to me it almost seems like Kishi is trying to make romance important (or his editors want him to), but every time he does he can't pull it off.

Personally I think the major problem is that Kishi probably always had the idea in mind that Sakura would fall in love with Naruto after he keeps his promise and brings Sasuke back, however because Kishi has stretch out this event from happening for so long its become increasingly more unrealistic on every end of the love triangle.


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## Yachiru (May 26, 2011)

After reading 13 pages of pointless pairing talks, all I can say is this:



Naruto doesn't love neither of them. The only real canon pairing is SasuNaru. And NagatoItachi


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## jdbzkh (May 26, 2011)

This whole pairing debate at least when it comes down to the team 7 love triangle all comes down to Sakura. 

In one corner we got Naruto who we all know loves Sakura he has had some major and I mean major steps in this pairing development along with tons of small ones. In fact if you look through the manga this is one pairing that's received the most constant development from the start. I'll list my two biggest moments for these two 

Naruto saving Sakura from Gaara. Not only is this there biggest moment but to me its the best writing Kishi's done for any pairing period. Sakura was captured, Gaara's holding her life over Naruto's head this was a moment or two after Naruto was to scared to even fight Gaara. What happens next? Naruto summons up an unheard of amount of strength and defeats him. 

The next one was obviously the promise this one wasn't one sided at all and although some might view it as a negative this little promise showed both Naruto and Sakura's emotions for each other in a light that no other pairing has had. 

In one Naruto was able to push aside all of his feelings for her and say that although he knows exactly how she's feeling he is going to save Sasuke. Not only did she break his heart at this moment but Naruto turned around and smiled at her just to comfort Sakura cause sadly Naruto's love for Sakura is so big that all he wants for her is happiness. 

On Sakura's side we finally learn what she truly thinks of Naruto she went from hating him to acknowledging that he is the only one that knows her. In this manga Naruto is Sakura's family we haven't seen her parents she isn't that close to Kakashi and we haven't really seen that much development between her and Tsunade. However we all know that when she is utterly defeated and humiliated there is only one person she can turn to the one person that loves her unconditionally. 

Alright lets move on to the other side of the ring known as Sasuke. To me the biggest points in the SasuSaku development come from the curse seal and goodbye scene. During the evil forest exam Sasuke receives the curse seal and we gain are first taste of batshit crazy Sasuke. He was on full blown murder mode about to kill some sound fodder Sakura quickly wrapped her arms around him and caused his emotions to cool. This was a very big moment. In this one show we where shown the age old cliche of light and dark however we all know how that turned out. Sakura isn't the light that will save Sasuke from the darkness it's Naruto. 

Next one we got the goodbye scene here we see Sakura begging Sasuke to stay she pours her heart out to the kid. The good thing is that for a moment Sasuke actually considers what life would be like if he stayed. For a moment or two he wanted to stay with her live the good life however it wasn't enough. She isn't big enough to sway Sasuke's emotions once again that part goes to Naruto. 

Okay I know I've countered both of my big two moments for SasuSaku but sadly its true Sakura's character isn't meant to save Sasuke that falls upon Naruto which to me kills the biggest moments in there development. If Sakura can't be the light to his darkness or even the voice of reason in his head then whats left? 

Hell lets bring up the most recent moment all 3 characters shared the big reunion. 
What happened? Hm, Sakura reaches Sasuke and tells him she want's to join him what is his reaction? Okay kill this chick and you'll be able to join me. Alright that might mean something right he let her join... oh yeah right afterwords Sasuke was about to drive a chidori through her skull. 

Okay, okay lets move on did Sakura have any impact on Sasuke's character? When she talked to him did he even notice she was there? Hell it wasn't till Kakashi appeared that any form of emotion came out and that only pushed him closer to the edge. Which lead to the biggest action in this reunion. 

Sasuke as about to kill Sakura and who swoops in like a knight in shinning armor to save her? None other than Naruto here we have it folks the big 3 all together again. On one side we had Sasuke and on the other we have Naruto. 

This is why the only person that can change the dynamic in a positive light for either pairing is Sakura. Kishi needs to do one of the following for either of these pairings to work. 

Sakura needs to finally admit her feelings towards Naruto her self not have others point it out to her and Kishi needs to stop hinting and start showing. There needs to be a big moment between the two. Sadly a simple conversation will do all this pairing needs is a simple acknowledgment.

All Sakura really has to do is tell Naruto that he is her hero that's it if she is capable of walking up to him and giving him that little push that will make him reach down and summon up all of his strength to save the world then this pairing would be ready to take that finale step towards cannon. 

On the other hand if Kishi wants SasuSaku to make any sense at all Sakura needs to become an important character to Sasuke. She needs to make an impact, she needs to save Sasuke from the darkness. No I'm not talking about her walking up to him and saying help Naruto or save Naruto after he's already done the hard part. She needs to become the voice of reason. 

She needs a repeat to that evil forest moment. Sakura needs to be able to calm Sasuke down and be his light or else there is nothing. Now maybe I'm being a little harsh but unless Sakura wants to be a Uchiha baby making machine and nothing more there needs to be some form of development coming from Sasuke's side of the fence.


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## Bellville (May 26, 2011)

mayumi said:


> regarding the whole naruto still loves sakura part. lets look at kushina's flashback when she asks him to choose a girl similar to her but naruto never choose anyone when he was doing the list of things to follow mom's advise.
> i think naruo has reached a point where he is content with not being with sakura. it is not the most important thing to him anymore.



Thought Sakura was falling for Naruto too because of ambiguous scenes coupled with not thinking about Sasuke at all/in a romantic light. Then look what happened, nothing changed.

Naruto has noticed Sakura's feelings for Sasuke since part 1, at least around the "hospital hug" scene, yet he still fell in love with her anyway. Just because he doesn't expect to get in her pants doesn't mean he can't continue loving her. If you haven't noticed, Hinata's in a similar situation. Hell, even Sakura fits.


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## Arles Celes (May 26, 2011)

Turrin said:


> Well Naruto is kind of a weird series when it comes to romance. I mean on one hand its clearly not as important of an issue as Naruto defeating the villains, bring back Sasuke, and somehow creating a more peaceful world, but on the other hand the main heroin's character is entirely romance centric and Kishi does throw in romance at crucial points of the story line. So to me it almost seems like Kishi is trying to make romance important (or his editors want him to), but every time he does he can't pull it off.
> 
> Personally I think the major problem is that Kishi probably always had the idea in mind that Sakura would fall in love with Naruto after he keeps his promise and brings Sasuke back, however because Kishi has stretch out this event from happening for so long its become increasingly more unrealistic on every end of the love triangle.



The problem with Sakura loving Naruto immediately just after he hands her Sasuke as a "gift" is that it would undermine his own desire to save his friend by making it only as a gift for Sakura's sake. The brotherly bond between Sasuke and Naruto was way to emphasized so that it can be suddenly undermined by Naruto making it look that he was mostly doing so for Sakura's sake.

Besides Sakura already had freed Naruto from that promise as she believed that by doing so she will diminish the pain he is going through. Naruto immediately responded to her that he wasn't doing it just for her but above all he is doing it for himself so he can save the guy he considers as his own brother.

It would be silly if after throwing away the importance of said promise Naruto suddenly started discussing said promise again.

IMO Kishi wont have the guts to give a definite resolution for the pairings as he possibly fears the pairing fandom wrath. It will probably end up just like it began in chapter 3 but this time they are true friends who fully understand each other. I could see the maga ending in a panel with all three of them holding hands and smiling while looking at the sky.

There is also one possibility though...namely Sasuke dying. Lets face it, after he gives up hated and revenge what else is left for him? His whole life centered around his clan...so when he finally lets his clan rest in peace what goal/dream could he possibly have? Even if everyone forgives him and he is completely free from hatred what future awaits for him. Sasuke even said so to Gaara,"So if I return to Konoha? What else is there for me?"

I can't help but feel that the only happy ending for him is a reunion with his family in heaven. Otherwise he will be just a broken man tormented by guilt and more than anything his grief for the loss of his family. We could already see how he looked when he defeated Itachi...sad and empty.

If Naruto takes his hatred away from him it will be basically a death blow for him IMO....


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## NarutoIzDaMan (May 26, 2011)

Turrin said:


> Personally I think the major problem is that Kishi probably always had the idea in mind that Sakura would fall in love with Naruto after he keeps his promise and brings Sasuke back, however because Kishi has stretch out this event from happening for so long its become increasingly more unrealistic on every end of the love triangle.



Well, ever since part 2 began Naruto has been an UGLY story and Kishi seems to want to keep it that way till the end. It has been a little over 11 years since the manga began and Naruto STILL has yet to achieve most of his goals and desires. The one thing he has managed to accomplish so far is gain the acknowledgment of everyone in his village (he's worshiped as a hero) after the Pain Arc. 

He still however has yet to accomplish his other goals - 1) Saving Sasuke from the "darkness" 2) Finding a solution to world peace 3) becoming Hokage 4) last and probably least, earning Sakura's love. Ultimately the whole point of the story is that nothing is supposed to come easy for Naruto (and yes this includes love) and Kishi has made that point very clear by consistently throwing nasty curve balls every which way at Naruto. 

In Kishi's warped and twisted mind he probably thinks that his deliberate "trolling/bad writing" makes things more "interesting" all the way to end. That's why I still believe (despite all the ugliness) that in the end Naruto will get everything he has ever wanted or desired since the very beginning (Sakura's love included, someway somehow). Naruto may not be a pretty story but that's the way Kishi intended it to be so take that with what you will.


----------



## Tyrannos (May 26, 2011)

AoshiKun said:


> Most likely the only chance to Sakura ends up with Naruto is Sasuke dying. _Every_ NS argument I saw were proved wrong during this 7 years. During Part II Sakura accepted Naruto, from a loser he became a "perfect" hero while Sasuke fell even more into darkness. Naruto can't become better and Sasuke can't become worse and _after all_ she stills love the Uchiha. It isn't that Kishimoto is doing a horrible job but that he wants to show how much Sakura loves Sasuke.
> 
> IMO Hinata's love for Naruto is around the same intensity these 2 girls feelings will hardly... hardly change to not say never while Naruto's feelings for Sakura seems weaker more like a crush than love.
> 
> Are people  really thinking after all that Sakura will suddenly falls for Naruto and Hinata will end with someone else? More than 540 chapters to show how much those girls love those guys for in the end in a few chapters Kishimoto change everything? If it happens, Kishimoto is going to be the worst romance maker ever.



Dude, every arguments ended up falling short.   And it is very apparent that Kishimoto is a pretty lousy romantic writer.

SS:   Okay, Sakura had feelings for Sasuke since the Academy days, which were confirmed by Kishimoto in interviews as being shallow.   And what has that gotten her?   More and more heartbreak as Sasuke went rouge, betrayed his village, and on top of that tried to kill Sakura twice.

Now lets say SS is going to happen.   Is Kishi going to put the blame on Sasuke's hatred and excorsize it as a demon and make like "oh he was just under the influence all this time, all is forgiven" and make like nothing happened.?


NH:   Okay, Hinata has had feelings for Naruto since, what Chapter 30?   And she almost got killed saving Naruto.   But her feelings had never gotten through Naruto's thick skull.

At this point, what's going to happen?   Hinata pull off another confession?   Naruto finally putting two and two together and suddenly falling in love with Hinata after years of loving Sakura?    Sakura telling Naruto that Hinata loves him and he should stop loving her?


NS:   As a NS fan, I will admit that I been hoping that we have somekind of transition where Sakura realizes that Sasuke has done nothing but hurt her and Naruto bent himself backwards for her sake.   And saved her life on occasion.   And what does she do, she hugs him and then gives him a fake confession.


No matter what pairing wins, all I can say it's going to end up being like a car slamming on the brakes or lets say an archer letting the bow string loose.   Naruto's love for years is going to pay off, Sakura's years of love is going to pay off, or Hinata's love for years is going to pay off in a single moment.

Who knows what may happen.

Naruto gets hurt and Sakura or Hinata rushes up and requittal happens?  Or Sasuke snaps out of it and he suddenly falls in love with Sakura?

Who knows.   

But at this point, I don't think any pairing fans is going to be happy of the outcome one way or another.   Kishi will very will likely have that one defining moment where someone requits their love and then have the couple getting together in the time jump ending.    So years of being fans for any pairing is going to end up with a "" moment.


----------



## Nagiza (May 26, 2011)

zuul said:


> The most important thing to him is to be reunited with Psychosuke.  He doesn't look to care much about Sakura anymore. He didn't seem to care much about Sasuke's attempting to choke her to death.



Why would he save her from him though if he didn't care about her? 

I agree with some of the people in this thread. Not much has changed pairing wise: Naruto still loves Sakura, Hinata still loves Naruto, and Sakura still loves Sasuke. I'm probably gonna get negged for this, but here's my view on the Sakura thinking about Sasuke. IMO, it wasn't pro-SS but anti-SS. The fodder nin clearly states that the guy that she's after must be a great guy. Clearly, Sakura isn't feeling that way, because her reaction is *sadness*. She's not happy about it. Yes, she has feelings for Sasuke, but you know what? She doesn't like having them. It's almost sorrowful, regretful. 

Whatever your thoughts are, she knows he's a murderer. She knows she has feelings for him, and guess what? She wants to move passed them. She's already shown that she wants to. The fact of the matter, is that she's not there yet. And I think Kishi's setting it up for her.


----------



## Bellville (May 26, 2011)

Nagiza said:


> Why would he save her from him though if he didn't care about her?


Because he's a good person and not a fucking asshole..?


----------



## mayumi (May 26, 2011)

Bellville said:


> Thought Sakura was falling for Naruto too because of ambiguous scenes coupled with not thinking about Sasuke at all/in a romantic light. Then look what happened, nothing changed.
> 
> Naruto has noticed Sakura's feelings for Sasuke since part 1, at least around the "hospital hug" scene, yet he still fell in love with her anyway. Just because he doesn't expect to get in her pants doesn't mean he can't continue loving her. If you haven't noticed, Hinata's in a similar situation. Hell, even Sakura fits.



naruto can continue loving sakura in a romantic way if he wants but it is not a priority for him to get together with her anymore but his priority is to save sasuke.
what will happen after that is more sasuke's decision. does sasuke love sakura? does sasuke care for naruto's feelings? in the end neither sasuke or naruto will choose the girl. hopefully sakura will finally manage to grow up and be a damn smart med nin and lead a life away from useless childish lub.


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## Arles Celes (May 26, 2011)

Tyrannos said:


> Dude, every arguments ended up falling short.   And it is very apparent that Kishimoto is a pretty lousy romantic writer.
> 
> SS:   Okay, Sakura had feelings for Sasuke since the Academy days, which were confirmed by Kishimoto in interviews as being shallow.   And what has that gotten her?   More and more heartbreak as Sasuke went rouge, betrayed his village, and on top of that tried to kill Sakura twice.
> 
> ...



Regardless of Kishi's skill with romance one think is clear though.

Kishimoto is a genius...

...at trolling(especially pairing fandoms)

It must be one of the greatest pleasures of his life to visit some japanese forum(or perhaps even a western one) and see how pairing fans throw at each other throats, pull off the weirdest arguments to support their pairing, and bash others to no end.

One reason for that I believe to be the fact that he fears the fandom wrath(and so offers no definite resolution) but more than anything IMO he enjoys the madness he can unleash with the slightest hint that gives some hope to any of the (still) one sided pairings.

Bow down to the king of trolls...Kishimoto-sama!!


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## runsakurarun (May 26, 2011)

There was a clear contrast in the chapter: Hinata's love for Naruto gives her strength and inspiration, whereas Sakura's love for Sasuke only gives her grief and disappointment. 

I agree with Nagiza, this might be a sign that she's processing those feelings and that she might eventually let go of them. At least those feelings didn't hold her back and she was able to perform her duties.


----------



## Chaelius (May 26, 2011)

>mfw people claim getting Sakura is one of Naruto's goals
>mfw  I start reading the same age old argument of "No, _now_ Sakura is going to start moving on from Sasuke to Naruto" and realize this we've been going in a loop for years


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## runsakurarun (May 26, 2011)

Let's face it, the chances of Sakura changing her mind is greater than Naruto changing his. She's being shown to having this inner turmoil while he is known for stubbornly sticking to his ways.

Same thing happened to Tsunade and Kushina, they were the ones who changed their minds/hearts about their persistent partners.


----------



## gabzilla (May 26, 2011)

runsakurarun said:


> Let's face it, the chances of Sakura changing her mind is greater than Naruto changing his. She's being shown to having this inner turmoil while he is known for stubbornly sticking to his ways.
> 
> Same thing happened to Tsunade and Kushina, they were the ones who changed their minds/hearts about their persistent partners.



If after 500+ chapters Kishimoto still insists that Sakura loves Sasuke and not Naruto, I doubt she's going to change her mind any time soon.

Sakura already knows how awesome Naruto is and she's still not in love with him. She'll either love Sasuke forever or she'll move on. But I doubt her feelings for Naruto will change at this point.



Turrin said:


> Well Naruto is kind of a weird series when it comes to romance. I mean on one hand its clearly not as important of an issue as Naruto defeating the villains, bring back Sasuke, and somehow creating a more peaceful world, but on the other hand the main heroin's character is entirely romance centric and Kishi does throw in romance at crucial points of the story line. So to me it almost seems like Kishi is trying to make romance important (or his editors want him to), but every time he does he can't pull it off.
> 
> Personally I think the major problem is that Kishi probably always had the idea in mind that Sakura would fall in love with Naruto after he keeps his promise and brings Sasuke back, however because Kishi has stretch out this event from happening for so long its become increasingly more unrealistic on every end of the love triangle.



So Naruto only follows cliches when it's convenient for you?

Either Kishimoto is following the cliched main guy x main girl or he's not. You can't have it both ways.


----------



## yukiko♥ (May 26, 2011)

Dokiz1 said:


> Well if NS is dead then i don't even know how can someone believe SS is alive.
> 
> 
> 
> what's nh?



How? Let's see:

Sasuke gets redeemed and returns to Konoha. Sakura hugs him in tears and tells him how much she missed him. He apologizes, tells her he couldn't let her in because of his revenge blablabla, Thank you = I love you, I loved you all along *flashbacks* blabla.

SS canon.

Naruto leaves Sasuke and Sakura alone and is happy because of his friends' happiness. On his way home he notices someone stalking him from behind a tree. Surprise it's Hinata! Naruto tells her how much he loved her confession and how much he likes people like her and hates lying liars like Sakura blablabla. In the end he asks her to go on a ramen date with him.

NH canon.

-The End-

--------------------------------------------------------------------

I know something crappy like this will happen. Kishi is more than capable to pull BS like that out of his ass. Shitty pairings will still be shitty though.

And this is coming from an ex-NS fan. Good thing I stopped caring for it after chapter 469. I saw this coming from miles away.


----------



## x_danny_x (May 26, 2011)

I think you guys are reading too much into this,  trying to find hidden meanings,  reading between the lines,  etc.    

What you see is what you get and that means nothing has changed.   Naruto has romantic feelings for Sakura ( it is debatle how deep it is..puppy love, deep love and so on),   Sakura loves Sasuke,  still strong it seems since again she gets depressed just by bringing up any conversation involving him or something that reminds her of him.   And ofcourse Sasuke loving no one.   


I believe that is how it is going to end up with in the end, with nothing resolved and when it is over you can make your own conclusion with your fanfiction writing.


----------



## AMtrack (May 26, 2011)

Seto Kaiba said:


> Dammit, sideshippers...
> 
> This chapter really doesn't land a blow on any pairing, and even if it did, why are people celebrating considering the circumstances? Not to mention, I can't help but be reminded of when people jumped the gun on these things.
> 
> It'd be a Pyrrhic victory, regardless.



What ppl fail to understand is that this doesnt add anything new..its the same story weve known since the manga started. Idk why anyone is excited or bothered over this. And another thing, Sasuke has zero..i mean zero feelings for Sakura so that pairing is impossible. She cant end up with no matter how much she likes him, because Sasuke thinks shes trash. So to everyone saying NS would need an asspull..well so would SS. Hard to ignore being almost killed by your love twice. On purpose.

And Naruto doesnt love Hinata in the slightest..so that would be asspull number 2. They are all asspulls so stop acting like little children. And one more thing, this was definitely not a positive "ss moment". Sure she likes him, but she wasnt happy about it. She looked sad and ashamed. The guy she likes is a great person? Did she look like she thought so? No. If anything that scene was some Sakura development. She had to look her crush in the face and realize just how foolish it was, thanks to mr fodder.


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## Will Of Fire (May 26, 2011)

Sakura ashamed for loving Sasuke?

Some people give her waaaaay too much credit. She's sad coz he's evil now, not ashamed. Shame and Sakura does not compute.


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## Dokiz1 (May 26, 2011)

yukiko♥ said:


> -insert post-



I see, now i understand you because that's something i can definitely see happening as well since you know...it's Kishi 

Logically SS should be dead already but logic+this manga can't be mixed.


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## Deana (May 26, 2011)

I see sad on Sakura's face but that ashamed crap is just something fans made up to make themselves feel better.  If Naruto's feelings about her is to remain the same; then her feelings for Sasuke should remain the same.  NaruSaku, because of the fake confession and Sakura confirming who she loves in this chapter, would be more of an asspull than any ship in this manga including TonTon/Killer Bee.  She does not have the ability to have romantic feelings for Naruto.
I can believe she can fall for someone else, but that someone being Naruto is laughable.  Of course Kishi could do that but it won't do romance genre any favors.  It'll set it back a couple of decades.  Not that I'm saying that other ships in this manga would set romance ahead, it'll just be a lot better than Sakura becoming trophy wife of the good guy that loves her . . . and that she obviously doesn't love; even after chapters and chapters of mutual unromantic development.


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## Farih (May 26, 2011)

> Not that I'm saying that other ships in this manga would set romance ahead, it'll just be a lot better than Sakura becoming trophy wife of the good guy.



But Sakura becoming the wife of the man who tried to kill her three times is somehow any better?


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## Deana (May 26, 2011)

Did I say that?  But I'll be blunt, yeah it would.  NarSaku sucks that much at this point.  Hell, I have many ships for Sakura but I would not do her the dishonor of forcing her into something she obviously doesn't want.


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## yukiko♥ (May 26, 2011)

Dokiz1 said:


> I see, now i understand you because that's something i can definitely see happening as well since you know...it's Kishi
> 
> But logically SS should be dead already, though logic+this manga can't be mixed.
> 
> .





I don't trust Kishi anymore and have lost respect for him.  I keep reading this manga only for Naruto.

Of course it should be dead a long time ago. It's crappy and sends negative messages to the readers. Sakura still liking him doesn't make sense at all. What's great about a jerk like Sasuke? 

SS made me hate Sakura.


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## ShadowNinja* (May 26, 2011)

Once Sasuke gets redeemed everything will be forgiven and forgotten. 

I'm disappoint Kishi.


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## Farih (May 26, 2011)

Deana said:


> Did I say that?



Yes, you did:



> *Not that I'm saying that other ships in this manga would set romance ahead, it'll just be a lot better than Sakura becoming trophy wife of the good guy.*


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## Deana (May 26, 2011)

^^You obviously get the point of this very simple kid's story.  It will be swept under the rug just like everything else in this manga.  

Well actually, in never made a stain in Sakura's rug. XD XD

It's called forgiveness, empathy, and other such things that Naruto and Sakura tend to use way more than they should.


----------



## Saturnine (May 26, 2011)

It's a shonen, I'm male, I don't give a shit about pairings.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (May 26, 2011)

Deana said:


> ^^You obviously get the point of this very simple kid's story.  It will be swept under the rug just like everything else in this manga.
> 
> Well actually, in never made a stain in Sakura's rug. XD XD
> 
> It's called forgiveness, empathy, and other such things that Naruto and Sakura tend to use way more than they should.



You guys really have to stop warping the manga's themes for your pairings. Forgiving is a very different matter from forgetting, and a very different thing from still clinging to romantic expectations. Considering these themes are supposed to be expressed to the reader, it sends an extremely bad message for Sakura, the heroine, to go crawling back to a guy that tried to kill her three times. The best for her character would be to drop romantic prospects and just become her own woman, or at least not be shoehorned into being another housewife.

If Kishi wants to go the "realistic girl" route, maybe he can take into consideration that half of Japan's women choose a career over marriage.


----------



## Deana (May 26, 2011)

She's gonna do it, unless her or she dies, so be prepared dear child.


Farih said:


> Yes, you did:


Well read the rest after did I say that.  I am like Darcy.  I freaking accept it as truth.  Yeah, I said it and I will do you one better

TonTon/Killer Bee > Naru/Sak, at this point in the story and it can only get worse.


----------



## Fruits Basket Fan (May 26, 2011)

This chapter did not bring up anything new other than what we should already know from the last two arcs !


It is not like Naruto and Sasuke are actually wanting to be with Hinata and Sakura, respectively......so the pairing wank is rather premature and stupid.


Much like how NF acted with chapters 296-297, 437, 450, 469, and Sasuke trying to kill Karin and Sakura chapters.....


Kishi loves to troll!


----------



## Deana (May 26, 2011)

You're right!!

And it's not like Sakura wants to be with Naruto . . . like at all.


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## Seto Kaiba (May 26, 2011)

Sasuke wants to kill everyone, and even before then showed more interest in Naruto than anyone of his admirers, including Sakura.


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## Deana (May 26, 2011)

^^DUH!

She still wants to get in those pants, apparently.


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## Fruits Basket Fan (May 26, 2011)

You are bringing logic up, Seto......which is going to be brushed away in this thread.


@Deana: And you are missing the point entirely!  Seto acknowledges that Sakura still wants Ssauke but that does not mean Sasuke wants Sakura !


Even before he went batshit crazy, he never was interested!


----------



## Deana (May 26, 2011)

^^Yeah, because bringing up logic in a thread about romance in Naruto will set you on the path of righteousness.


----------



## AMtrack (May 26, 2011)

Deana said:


> I see sad on Sakura's face but that ashamed crap is just something fans made up to make themselves feel better.



Its not "made-up" her expression was directly related to the question: "Im sure the guy you like must be great".  She thinks of Sasuke, and has a sad and pitiful look on her face.  Obvious is obvious "no he's not great at all".  Ashamed may be a bit of a stretch, but in any case she was definitely forced to see it for what it is "I like a jerk".  And why do ppl need to "feel better".  Sasuke still doesn't like her, and everyone has known she's always liked Sasuke.  If anyone is making anything up its you.




> If Naruto's feelings about her is to remain the same; then her feelings for Sasuke should remain the same.  NaruSaku, because of the fake confession and Sakura confirming who she loves in this chapter, would be more of an asspull than any ship in this manga including TonTon/Killer Bee.



Lolwut?  That is some seriously fail logic.  Naruto and Sakura are different characters.  Just because his feelings wont change, doesn't mean Sakura's isnt allowed to change.  That doesn't even make sense.  As for NS being an asspull, yes it would be.  But both SS and NH would just as much of an asspull, if not a bigger one.  Of all three big pairings, NS is the only one with at least questionable development.  Sasuke has zero feelings for Sakura, Naruto has zero feelings for Hinata.  And there has been like no SS or NH development in the manga that wasn't one-sided (romantic, dont give me that "thank you" and chuunin exams bs).  You're obviously biased if you cant see that.



> She does not have the ability to have romantic feelings for Naruto.
> I can believe she can fall for someone else, but that someone being Naruto is laughable.  Of course Kishi could do that but it won't do romance genre any favors.  It'll set it back a couple of decades.  Not that I'm saying that other ships in this manga would set romance ahead, it'll just be a lot better than Sakura becoming trophy wife of the good guy that loves her . . . and that she obviously doesn't love; even after chapters and chapters of mutual unromantic development.



Right....because losing her feelings for Sasuke and falling for some other random fodder makes much more sense.  And of course it could be Naruto, why wouldn't it be Naruto.  Naruto is the obvious #2 guy, who should be the #1 guy based on how she's relied on him from beginning to end.  And I hate to break it to you, the romance in Naruto fails.  ANY pairing would set romance back a few decades, so please dont act like only NS is terrible.  They're all terribly executed, all poorly developed, and the saddest part is that NS is the most developed out of the 3.  Anything is worse than NS by default.

And im so tired of ppl ignoring Naruto/Sasuke's feelings in these stupid pairing arguments.  The girls are not the main characters, its the Naruto/Sasuke.  So quite frankly, the only feelings that really  matter are men's.  Whether Hinata likes Naruto or Sakura likes Sasuke its irrelevant.  If Sasuke doesn't like Sakura, and Naruto doesn't love Hinata, those pairings aint gonna happen.


----------



## Fruits Basket Fan (May 26, 2011)

I think Deana is merely bored and trolling, so it is a waste of time now.....


Either way: All of the Big 3 look like shit (especially SS).


----------



## Seto Kaiba (May 26, 2011)

Deana said:


> ^^Yeah, because bringing up logic in a thread about romance in Naruto will set you on the path of righteousness.



Every actual couple in the series has shown to be a loving, trusting, and functional relationship with little internal conflict or drama. Certainly nowhere as bad as one being able to bring themselves to try and remorselessly kill the other in cold blood. Repeatedly. Or repeatedly lose faith only for it to be propped up again by a third party like a cheap mannequin. 

Sometimes...I feel Sasuke could drink from the skulls of Konoha children and screw his victims' intestines and there'd still those whom would want him in a relationship.


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## Deana (May 26, 2011)

Yeah, I am bored, but I am not trolling.  Romance in this manga is pretty much a joke but Sakura has been consistent and not having romantic feelings for Naruto so . . . for it to happen after all this will be the biggest joke of all, so maybe it will happen.

I would post bigger replies but doing that in defense/offense of a pairing is a waste of time.

Seto Kaiba, Naruto will change Sasuke and you know it and where the story goes from there, is anyone's guess but I think we know where Sakura's heart will still be, in the end.  She is the new Tsunade, after all.


----------



## Fruits Basket Fan (May 26, 2011)

Deana said:


> Yeah, I am bored, but I am not trolling.  Romance in this manga is pretty much a joke but Sakura has been consistent and not having romantic feelings for Naruto so . . . for it to happen after all this will be the biggest joke of all.
> 
> I would post bigger replies but doing that in defense/offense of a pairing is a waste of time.



Yeah, just like how Sasuke has consistedly not love Sakura !


And how Naruto loves Sakura....

And how Hinata loves Naruto....


And etc.....


You are merely nitpicking because you favor SS.


----------



## AMtrack (May 26, 2011)

Fruits Basket Fan said:


> Yeah, just like how Sasuke has consistedly not love Sakura !
> 
> 
> And how Naruto loves Sakura....
> ...



Basically what it boils down to, hate when ppl pretend to be unbiased but totally ignore certain aspects of a pairing.  They're all bad, and Sakura switching to Naruto isnt any worse than Naruto switching from Sakura, or Sasuke switching to Sakura.  Its all crap.


----------



## Deana (May 26, 2011)

Fruits Basket Fan said:


> Yeah, just like how Sasuke has consistedly not love Sakura !
> 
> 
> And how Naruto loves Sakura....
> ...


And Sakura has consistently been in love with Sasuke.

Yeah, I am adding Sakura's feelings for Sasuke to all your list because you seem to ignore that for what you want.

So don't call me out on what you are doing yourself.


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## Fruits Basket Fan (May 26, 2011)

Deana said:


> And Sakura has consistently been in love with Sasuke.
> 
> Yeah, I am adding Sakura's feelings for Sasuke to all your list because you seem to ignore that for what you want.



And now you are playing the NO YOU game !


----------



## Deana (May 26, 2011)

What?  LOL,  so me pointing you out for being biased as well is somehow a point for you.  Okay, I will giggle and cheer for your apparent victory.  You must be proud of your achievements over this pairing thing.


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## Fruits Basket Fan (May 26, 2011)

I am not a pairing fan !


It is you that it is because I called you out on it when you keep insisting that SS would not be a asspull merely because of Sakura's feelings even though Sasuke's feelings are not the same and how Naruto and Hinata still retain their feelings for their respective love interests as well!

Yet when I called you out on it, you backtrack and repeat "Sakura's feelings" even though Sasuke does NOT have those feelings for her.


----------



## Saturnine (May 26, 2011)

Sasuke has been portrayed as aromantic since the very beginning. Does nobody think that seeing him kiss a woman, no matter which one, would feel at least a bit awkward?


----------



## Deana (May 26, 2011)

Fruits Basket Fan said:


> I am not a pairing fan !
> 
> 
> It is you that it is because I called you out on it when you keep insisting that SS would not be a asspull merely because of Sakura's feelings even though Sasuke's feelings are not the same and how Naruto and Hinata still retain their feelings for their respective love interests as well!
> ...



What?  Where did I say it won't be an asspull?  I said Nar/Sak would be a bigger one, and it will be because of Sakura.

Sakura is the player I am talking about.


----------



## AMtrack (May 26, 2011)

Deana said:


> What?  LOL,  so me pointing you out for being biased as well is somehow a point for you.  Okay, I will giggle and cheer for your apparent victory.  You must be proud of your achievements over this pairing thing.



If you like SS more for whatever reason just say its your personal preference.  If you'd just admit that, instead of trying to justify why its better than the other 2, no one would even bother with you.  There's so many holes in your argument its pretty obvious you favor one pairing over another..so why not just say "i prefer SS" instead of trying to make other pairings look worse.  Because really, by manga evidence alone, SS is the most dysfunctional pairing out of the 3.


----------



## Saturnine (May 26, 2011)

Well perhaps. But SasuSaku proponents seem to completely ignore the fact that Sasuke has never shown anything even remotely suggesting he might be interested in her.


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## Fruits Basket Fan (May 26, 2011)

Deana said:


> What?  Where did I say it won't be an asspull?  *I said Nar/Sak would be a bigger one, and it will be because of Sakura.*
> Sakura is the player I am talking about.



Just like SS would be because of Sasuke !

Both would be equally asspulls.



I am shocked that you cannot realize the double standards you are spouting !


----------



## runsakurarun (May 26, 2011)

Fruits Basket Fan said:


> I think Deana is merely bored and trolling, so it is a waste of time now.....
> Either way: All of the Big 3 look like shit (especially SS).


Nah, it's the classic "I don't like what I'm reading so I'm gonna spam/vomit all over this thread" response.

I personally think that Kishi wouldn't let Sakura be with either guys, so I'm not too worried about it. 

He clearly despises her too much to let her be with either one of his golden boys. That's perfect cuz I'd be happier if Sakura focused on herself and her career instead. Or she could go travel with Ino just like what Tsunade/Shizune did.


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## Deana (May 26, 2011)

I am not trying to make a solid argument so holes in it, don't matter to me.  I am just pointing out that Sakura is the major card here and that card does not want Naruto to be where she is inserted.


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## AMtrack (May 26, 2011)

lol some ppl dont even realize their own bias o.o


Granted...we got that!  But Sakura not wanting Naruto is the SAME as:

That Sasuke does not want Sakura (he's a major card too in SS ya know)

That Naruto does not want Hinata (major card in NH)


Its all the same.  Thats what we're trying to tell you.  But you keep acting like one is worse than the other.  Its all equivalent.  The only difference between them all is:

Sasuke tried to kill Sakura.

^ Its not even that he doesn't like her, he'd much rather her dead.


----------



## Fruits Basket Fan (May 26, 2011)

Deana said:


> I am not trying to make a solid argument so holes in it, don't matter to me.  I am just pointing out that Sakura is the major card here and that card does not want Naruto.



Again, in SS...the major card in there is Sasuke who does not want Sakura !


----------



## x_danny_x (May 26, 2011)

you guys should wait another 450 chapters.   nothing has change so far.  you are rehashing the same points which are being counter by the same arguments.   

Hinata----->Naruto------>Sakura--------->Sasuke.    you can argue which character has a deeper love than another but that is about it at this time.


----------



## Deana (May 26, 2011)

Fruits Basket Fan said:


> Again, in SS...the major card in there is Sasuke who does not want Sakura !


But you are coming at it from me being a SS fan, when I am just here to make fun of NS and point out that Sakura doesn't want it.  

Cuz, she doesn't and she is what makes or breaks her romance, or lack there of, with Naruto.

Let me point this out,  I don't give a darn about SS, right now.  If it happens, ha ha to you, if it doesn't, who gives a flip?  I just want to see if Naruto will make this ending of his manga showy.  

And if he ends up with a trophy wife that really wants his dead friend, that won't be showy.


----------



## AMtrack (May 26, 2011)

I dont even get the point in arguing.  Naruto/Sasuke are the main players in this manga.  If any pairing is going to happen at all, the guys will get the girl they like.  Its a shounen, from a male perspective, so the author will change the girl's feelings at a whim to fit the wants of his male heroes.. IF..and theres a big IF, he wants to make a canon pairing.

There are some cases where the main character doesn't get the girl, or instances where main character falls in love with a different girl over the course of the manga (and gets that one), but its all built around the main character's feelings.  The only feelings that really matter in this stupid pairing debate, and the only ones that get ignored, are Naruto's and Sasuke's.  As of now, Naruto likes Sakura and Sasuke hates everyone.  So until Naruto starts falling for Hinata, or Ino, or someone else, the end of manga pairing situation is pretty simple:  NaruSaku, or basically open-ended/nothing.  Of course if Sasuke were to start developing feelings for Sakura then SS would be an option as well.

Bottom line is: stop focusing on the female's feelings.  Those literally can change "like the autumn skies" with no justification from the author, because quite frankly crap like that doesn't matter in a shounen.


----------



## Deana (May 26, 2011)

Okay, AMtrack, you are right but Sakura has been pretty consistent with her frigid winter skies so her changing that to autumn would be . . . weird.  If she does it, she won't get any jeers from me, though, well not many.

I'd be happy with no romance but that shit sucks in this manga.  I just make fun of the two NS ships more so than any others.


----------



## AMtrack (May 26, 2011)

Deana said:


> Okay, AMtrack, you are right but Sakura has been pretty consistent with her frigid winter skies so her changing that to autumn would be . . . weird.  If she does it, she won't get any jeers from me, though, well not many.
> 
> I'd be happy with no romance but that shit sucks in this manga.  I just make fun of the two NS ships more so than any others.



Sure I agree with that.  I'd honestly be happy with zero myself, because anything at this point would leave a pretty bad taste in my mouth.  The thing we should be bitching about is poor Kyuubi turning into a plush puppy.  I had dropped the manga for months, and came back to see if it was over yet.  And what do I come back to?  Kyuubi acting like a house pet


----------



## Saunion (May 26, 2011)

Deana said:


> I am not trying to make a solid argument so holes in it, don't matter to me.  I am just pointing out that Sakura is the major card here and that card does not want Naruto to be where she is inserted.



You act as if Naruto makes her vomit or something. That's really flattering for the two characters. Don't confuse your own opinion of Naruto with Sakura's.

That being said the advantage NS had over the other two (the so called "development") got destroyed these past few arcs. So if it happend it'll be as much of an asspull as the other two. So it's pointless. Open ending or bust.


----------



## AMtrack (May 26, 2011)

Saunion said:


> You act as if Naruto makes her vomit or something. That's really flattering for the two characters. Don't confuse your own opinion of Naruto with Sakura's.
> 
> That being said the advantage NS had over the other two (the so called "development") got destroyed these past few arcs. So if it happend it'll be as much of an asspull as the other two. So it's pointless. Open ending or bust.



No..its bust no matter how you slice it.  Even if it was open-ended, we all know Kishi actually tried but failed miserably.  And its not like a Harem manga where even the open endings all result in "good" relationships.  They all suck even if they were left as open right now lol.


----------



## Deana (May 26, 2011)

Saunion said:


> You act as if Naruto makes her vomit or something. That's really flattering for the two characters. Don't confuse your own opinion of Naruto with Sakura's.


Naruto is my favorite character and I am proud of his achievements but I don't much like that he has lost some of his part I charm.  But he's still my number one guy. 

And as for the vomit thing, I would not take it that far . . . but it's pretty close. XD XD


----------



## Saunion (May 26, 2011)

Deana said:


> Naruto is my favorite character





How typical.


----------



## Deana (May 26, 2011)

Hmm, my truth is typical . . . 

You guys sure are entertaining.


----------



## Saturnine (May 26, 2011)

Yamato has suggested that Sakura's feelings for Naruto may be deeper than friendship. And his words should be considered, for he's the master of the Wood.


----------



## Farih (May 26, 2011)

Deana said:


> And as for the vomit thing, I would not take it that far . . . but it's pretty close. XD XD



Sad part is, I don't think you're joking.  I honestly believe you think Naruto makes Sakura "close" to vomit.  Then again you also said just a few posts earlier that Sakura would be better off marrying the man who tried to kill her three times as opposed to "the good guy".


----------



## Bellville (May 26, 2011)

runsakurarun said:


> Let's face it, the chances of Sakura changing her mind is greater than Naruto changing his. She's being shown to having this inner turmoil while he is known for stubbornly sticking to his ways.


This.



Deana said:


> I see sad on Sakura's face but that ashamed crap is just something fans made up to make themselves feel better.





Deana said:


> ^^You obviously get the point of this very simple kid's story.  It will be swept under the rug just like everything else in this manga.
> 
> Well actually, in never made a stain in Sakura's rug. XD XD
> 
> It's called forgiveness, empathy, and other such things that Naruto and Sakura tend to use way more than they should.



Just tell me you're _not_ a Sakura fan with these expectations. This is so pathetic I really don't see how anybody can be _rooting_ for her to go these routes. And no, Naruto continuing to love Sakura doesn't mean Sakura is required to keep loving Sasuke. Sakura didn't pull the shit that Sasuke did. Naruto doesn't have to worry about his survival because of Sakura like she does about Sasuke. Don't bother equating this shit.


----------



## Suigetsu (May 26, 2011)

I dont care anymore, I am Fking SICK of this! Getting obsessed over a male character for no fking reason.
The most plausible for me was sasuke and karin, even tough they got more personal. But the other pairings are gwack!

It is so annoying that I honestly wish Naruto hooked up with ino and maked out, or heck even fking Karin if they aren't relatives.

Suigetsu Out.


----------



## AMtrack (May 26, 2011)

Suigetsu said:


> I dont care anymore, I am Fking SICK of this! Getting obsessed over a male character for no fking reason.
> The most plausible for me was sasuke and karin, even tough they got more personal. But the other pairings are gwack!
> 
> It is so annoying that I honestly wish Naruto hooked up with ino and maked out, or heck even fking Karin if they aren't relatives.
> ...



lol sasukarin was the most developed pairing in the manga.  No im not joking.  If you consider development divided by actual panel time, they were by far the best.  Too bad Sasuke had to pwn her.  They made a good match  at least he valued her rofl.  She was at the very least "useful".  For Sasuke thats practically true love.  He sought her out to be on his team.  Sakura begged and he was like "lolfail"


----------



## santanico (May 26, 2011)

Fruits Basket Fan said:


> Again, in SS...the major card in there is Sasuke who does not want Sakura !



Again, Sakura does not want Naruto


----------



## Bellville (May 26, 2011)

AMtrack said:


> lol sasukarin was the most developed pairing in the manga.  No im not joking.  If you consider development divided by actual panel time, they were by far the best.  Too bad Sasuke had to pwn her.  They made a good match  at least he valued her rofl.  She was at the very least "useful".  For Sasuke thats practically true love.  He sought her out to be on his team.  Sakura begged and he was like "lolfail"


...He continually rejected her advances and kept her around because she was useful to him. It was absolutely one-sided. She put up with his disrespect and continually deteriorating attitude. And then he tried to kill her.

Luckily she had the stones to walk away. A little late in the game, but better late than never. I'd hardly call it the best developed pairing, but it's the only one that we really got to see from start to finish.


----------



## Juk3n (May 26, 2011)

Starr said:


> Again, Sakura does not want Naruto



But at least she never tried to murder him, while Sasuke tries to murder her


----------



## x_danny_x (May 26, 2011)

Juk3n said:


> But at least she never tried to murder him, while Sasuke tries to murder her



but she does beat the crap out of him


----------



## AMtrack (May 26, 2011)

Starr said:


> Again, Sakura does not want Naruto



Lol buuut she did offer herself to him  she may not want him but she's willing to give herself to him lol.


EDIT:  And lets not forget, Naruto still hasnt made his confession.  Willing to bet that IF he does that little pink girl will do a total 180.


----------



## Afalstein (May 26, 2011)

AMtrack said:


> Lol buuut she did offer herself to him  she may not want him but she's willing to give herself to him lol.
> 
> 
> EDIT:  And lets not forget, Naruto still hasnt made his confession.  Willing to bet that IF he does that little pink girl will do a total 180.



Psssh.  She made a false offer that her heart wasn't in simply to manipulate Naruto.  Whether she was even willing to carry it out is debatable, as she knew it would make Naruto hate her even more when she killed Sasuke.

As for a 180...  Sakura made her false confession shortly after hearing a confession-by-Sai-proxy from Naruto.  It made her TRY to get out a confession.  But as her behavior with Sasuke and this fodder nin shows, she's still on the road to destruction.  

Regardless of how much Sakura knows it's stupid, dangerous, and even wrong to still be in love with Sasuke, she can't get over the guy.  And no matter how much more heroic Naruto is, no matter how much more douchey Sasuke is, it won't make any difference, because she already knows who the hero is.  She just can't love him.  It's really quite tragic.

This is all overlooking the fallacy in your statement, that Naruto's confession will be to Sakura.  Sai's flashback was extremely outdated and did not take into account the most recent, dramatic events.


----------



## Saunion (May 26, 2011)

Bellville said:


> ...He continually rejected her advances and kept her around because she was useful to him. It was absolutely one-sided. She put up with his disrespect and continually deteriorating attitude. And then he tried to kill her.
> 
> Luckily she had the stones to walk away. A little late in the game, but better late than never. I'd hardly call it the best developed pairing, but it's the only one that we really got to see from start to finish.



It's not any worse than what happend with Sakura though. He saved Karin back when it was supposedly such a huge deal for him not to let people die. He even smiled at her!  He said he needed her (which conveniently gets twisted into "she was just a tool! ") Then he saved her life again at a time when he already tried to butcher Sakura. Madara said she was "Sasuke's favorite" (imagine the defeaning squeals if something like that happend for Sakura). Finally he stabbed her. Which is still one murder attempt less than what he subjected Sakura to.


----------



## Bellville (May 26, 2011)

x_danny_x said:


> but she does beat the crap out of him



Comedy only Japan finds funny, but still comedy.. I'm pretty sure we weren't supposed to laugh at Sakura getting strangled or chidorid to the face or stabbed.


----------



## VioNi (May 26, 2011)

I'm all for a no-pairings ending. 

All this love crap does is destroy every single character involved.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (May 26, 2011)

Suigetsu said:


> I dont care anymore, I am Fking SICK of this! Getting obsessed over a male character for no fking reason.
> The most plausible for me was sasuke and karin, even tough they got more personal. But the other pairings are gwack!
> 
> It is so annoying that I honestly wish Naruto hooked up with ino and maked out, or heck even fking Karin if they aren't relatives.
> ...



Hey, whatever happened to Suigetsu anyways!?


----------



## Fruits Basket Fan (May 26, 2011)

@Starr: And just where in the hell did I say otherwise?  Unlike you, I stopped shipping Naruto pairings a year ago.


----------



## Haloman (May 26, 2011)

I don't think this means that NaruSaku is done for. Like any good mangaka, Kishi knows that relationships must be ambiguous until (and even past) the end of the manga. Sakura's feelings were getting too obvious in that she cares for Naruto. By giving this one panel, it sweeps us back to a more ambiguous state. Who knows who she loves now?!? 

Still holding out for NaruSaku, though. The relationship echoes MinaKush (trademark) too well.


----------



## Bellville (May 26, 2011)

Halo2298 said:


> Who knows who she loves now?!?


Everybody who isn't in denial.


----------



## x_danny_x (May 26, 2011)

Fruits Basket Fan said:


> @Starr: And just where in the hell did I say otherwise?  Unlike you, I stopped shipping Naruto pairings a year ago.




so you are no longer a NaruSaku fan?  also is that a guy that girl is touching in your avatar?







Bellville said:


> Comedy only Japan finds funny, but still comedy.. I'm pretty sure we weren't supposed to laugh at Sakura getting strangled or chidorid to the face or stabbed.



that is why i gave the Zaru with the smiley face.  just trying to ligthen the mood,  i meant no harm or disrespect to anyone.


----------



## Bellville (May 26, 2011)

x_danny_x said:


> that is why i gave the Zaru with the smiley face.  just trying to ligthen the mood,  i meant no harm or disrespect to anyone.


It bears repeating since plenty of folks don't understand the concept, sadly.


----------



## x_danny_x (May 26, 2011)

Bellville said:


> It bears repeating since plenty of folks don't understand the concept, sadly.




haha  true,  very true.  especially when people are on edge over their favorite pairing?


----------



## AoshiKun (May 26, 2011)

Tyrannos said:


> Dude, every arguments ended up falling short.   And it is very apparent that Kishimoto is a pretty lousy romantic writer.
> 
> SS:   Okay, Sakura had feelings for Sasuke since the Academy days, which were confirmed by Kishimoto in interviews as being shallow.   And what has that gotten her?   More and more heartbreak as Sasuke went rouge, betrayed his village, and on top of that tried to kill Sakura twice.
> 
> ...



I really don't like pairings. 
I even think nowaday NS makes more sense than any other pairing mainly compared to SS however the way Kishimoto writes, NS will hardly hardly happen. Just ask some neutral friends which pair has the highest chance, NS will come in the bottom.

A simple example is everytime there is a thread about "who Sakura loves?" 99% of NS fans say it's Naruto however it is always Sasuke. They err since 1999.

At this point is even more believable NH and/ or SS happen than NS. Naruto looks more interesting in other things than Sakura (like save Sasuke and world peace) while her and Hinata are strill focused on the boys.

Naruto changed, Sakura and Hinata didn't.


----------



## Bellville (May 26, 2011)

x_danny_x said:


> haha  true,  very true.  especially when people are on edge over their favorite pairing?



anything to make NaruSaku look like the Devil's handiwork.


----------



## Tyrannos (May 26, 2011)

Starr said:


> Again, Sakura does not want Naruto



Oh, do please provide evidence.   I don't recall her saying such a thing since they were formed as a team.



AoshiKun said:


> I really don't like pairings.
> I even think nowaday *NS makes more sense than any other pairing* mainly compared to SS however the way Kishimoto writes, NS will hardly hardly happen. Just ask some neutral friends which pair has the highest chance, NS will come in the bottom.



Yep!  At this point no matter which pairing wins, it's not going to be pretty.



AoshiKun said:


> A simple example is everytime there is a thread about "who Sakura loves?" 99% of NS fans say it's Naruto however it is always Sasuke. They err since 1999.



Even if in hindsight they were wrong, can you blame pairing fans for believing?

NS fans always were optimistic that Sakura starts warming up to Naruto and realizing his good qualities.   NH fans always were optimistic that Hinata's feelings would get through to Naruto.




AoshiKun said:


> At this point is even more believable NH and/ or SS happen than NS. Naruto looks more interesting in other things than Sakura (like save Sasuke and world peace) while her and Hinata are strill focused on the boys.
> 
> Naruto changed, Sakura and Hinata didn't.



Wait, didn't you just say above that NS makes more sense, but NH and SS is more belivable?   Say wha?  

No offense, but SS is the least belivable the way it's being handled.   Its just crazy to think that Sasuke's going to change back to his old self and act like nothing has happened.   And suddenly fall in love with Sakura?

NH is indeed belivable if the manga is going to continue for many more years, because there is plausibility that Naruto would give up chasing Sakura and fall in love with Naruto.   

But given the context and that the manga is said to be ending soon, that requires Naruto to really do a quick turn around with his affection.   As discussed earlier, Sakura still loves Sasuke, but can people say the same for Naruto giving up his love for Sakura?   


With NS, there is a possibility that this chapter, Sakura is doubting her love for Sasuke.   So then what?   She knows Naruto's in love with her, been there for her, and saved her life a couple of times.   So she's going to pass over Naruto because he's that perverbial knight in shining armor?


But no matter the pairing, I guarantee that if Kishimoto is going to make a pairing happen, the likelyhood of this will be a very powerful moment.   Could be Sakura gets hurt, Naruto gets captured and extracted, Sasuke sacrifices himself, who knows.   But it will be something that would make or break our years of being fans.


----------



## Amaya no Hime (May 26, 2011)

I've read through this whole thread, and am shocked at the lack of NejiKiba as that was clearly proved to be canon this episode.

The only debate we should be having is whether it is NejiKiba or KibaNeji. Hrmm...


----------



## Bellville (May 26, 2011)

Amaya no Hime said:


> I've read through this whole thread, and am shocked at the lack of NejiKiba as that was clearly proved to be canon this episode.
> 
> The only debate we should be having is whether it is NejiKiba or KibaNeji. Hrmm...



So canon it's not worth debating.


----------



## AMtrack (May 26, 2011)

Afalstein said:


> Psssh.  She made a false offer that her heart wasn't in simply to manipulate Naruto.  .



I know you're a die-hard NH fan and all but...there is absolutely NOTHING to prove that offer was false.  You can argue that parts of the confession were fake (ie her loving him) but the offer was definitely real.  Heart in it or not, the only reason that offer didnt happen is cuz Naruto didnt take her up on it.  Please dont make things up :X pairing fans like to do that.

And if Naruto confessed to anyone it'd be Sakura.  Obviously.  Its been his secret crush since chapter 1.  The only way that NH ship isnt sunk is if Naruto does a complete and random 180.  But that still makes the ship as equally retarded as NS or SS.  SS i'd say is the most retarded purely because

1) Sasuke has been asexual since the beginning

2) attempted murder

No ship is impossible, but they're all gonna be ugly.  The only point in arguing now is for the right to say "i told you so".  Other than that, there's no "romance" in this manga.


----------



## Hitt (May 26, 2011)

AMtrack said:


> EDIT:  And lets not forget, Naruto still hasnt made his confession.  Willing to bet that IF he does that little pink girl will do a total 180.



And let's touch on that some.

We've had an ASTOUNDING two (three?) confessions so far in an action shoenen.  That's gotta be a record.   Let's recap:

Confession #1:  Sakura to Sasuke, begging him not to leave Konoha.  How well did that work out?  Knocked out on a park bench, with a oh-so-sincere "Thank You".  That's a FAIL.

Confession #2:  Hinata to Naruto.  How well did that work out?  Well, Naruto didn't clock her one, that's a start.  (Although he might've killed her in Kyuubi form if the situation was different...).  But otherwise?  Ignored.  I chalk that up as a FAIL as well.

"Confession" #3: Sakura to Naruto:  Uh....FAIL.  Moving on...

Confession #4?:  Well, who hasn't confessed yet?  That's right, Naruto.  Sure Sakura "knows" about Naruto's feelings at this point, but really, it's got to come straight from the horse's mouth to mean something.  Will it work?

Well, let's see.  This guy is the same one who converted over a serial killing murderer, a homocidal psychopathic jinchurriki, and convinced a genocidal maniac with god-like powers to perform mass resurrect and pass "full belief" into him.  

Yeah, I like his chances.


----------



## AMtrack (May 26, 2011)

TnJ = the start of Naruto's harem


----------



## Bellville (May 26, 2011)

er.. You realize that the moment Sasuke died and Naruto realized Sakura's confession was a ploy to distract him from what was REALLY going on, Sakura wouldn't _have_ to live up to the offer she made to Naruto.. because he'd be so fucking pissed that no female consolation prize could make him feel better, right?


----------



## Hitt (May 26, 2011)

Bellville said:


> er.. You realize that the moment Sasuke died and Naruto realized Sakura's confession was a ploy to distract him from what was REALLY going on, Sakura wouldn't _have_ to live up to the offer she made to Naruto.. because he'd be so fucking pissed that no female consolation prize could make him feel better, right?



C'mon guys.  Really, this line of thinking ASTOUNDS me, given the character we're speaking about here!

This guy FORGAVE (not killing in the circumstances counts in this case) Mr. killed-his-master, and (up until that point) a ton of people in Konoha.  He continues to BELIEVE in a freaking monster of a boy who would just as soon put a few MORE holes in Naruto's chest and is indirectly responsible for a WAR that has killed 40,000 of his comrades already.

And people have a hard time believing he can forgive SAKURA, a woman he LOVES, for lying to him...especially when in the end it was (in her mind) for his benefit?



Farih said:


> ...Naruto shouldn't have to _talk_ Sakura into liking him :S  Saying Naruto confessing = Sakura's reciprocation is the same shitty argument that Hinata's confession means insta!NaruHina.



I'm not saying that.  Naruto needs to have seeds already planted in his TnJ victims.  Nagato was forshadowed to be converted ever since we found out he used to be good and "something went wrong".  Notice with Madara this is certainly not the case, and conversion is almost total unlikely.

He isn't going to "talk" her into doing something she absolutely didn't want in the first place.  He's just going to bring it out of her subconscious.  Of course, this is a big IF at this point.


----------



## Farih (May 26, 2011)

...Naruto shouldn't have to _talk_ Sakura into liking him :S  Saying Naruto confessing = Sakura's reciprocation is the same shitty argument that Hinata's confession means insta!NaruHina.


----------



## Afalstein (May 26, 2011)

AMtrack said:


> I know you're a die-hard NH fan and all but...there is absolutely NOTHING to prove that offer was false.  You can argue that parts of the confession were fake (ie her loving him) but the offer was definitely real.  Heart in it or not, the only reason that offer didnt happen is cuz Naruto didnt take her up on it.  Please dont make things up :X pairing fans like to do that.



Dude, WHAT?

Okay, Naruto called it a lie.  Kakashi, Kiba, and 'love doctors' Sai and Yamato assumed it was a lie.  Sakura did NOTHING to make her cause more believable, refusing to tell the truth about the matters she was hiding.  She has since not renewed the matter nor shown any animosity to anyone who suggests she was lying.  And in the most recent chapter, we see she's still in love with Sasuke.

And if you're saying that she was making an earnest offer to engage in a relationship built on a lie... well, that's not a whole lot better, but personally I even doubt that.  Sai believed Sakura was planning to assassinate Sasuke  long before they met Naruto.  The team was practically tailor-made for her to betray and gas.  Sai also pointed out that she knew this would make Naruto hate her.  So even before she 'confessed' to Naruto, she was on track to a plan that she knew would make Naruto despise her and, presumably, reject her.

Understand, I'm not saying Sakura did this for the sole purpose of hurting Naruto.  She was in a very suicidal-like mindset leading up to her confrontation with Sasuke and was simply pulling out all the stops to ensure that all the pain from Sasuke's actions fell on her (much like Naruto often does).  I'm not sure she even ever intended to come back from the Sasuke battle, certainly if she had, things might have been difficult with the other rookies.

Sakura's confession was false, and to my view, so was her offer.  They were both simply elements in her plan to distance people from the Sasuke battle.


----------



## The Red Skull (May 26, 2011)

I would rather see Naruto and Karin together.
As for him being with Hinnata...
[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31g0YE61PLQ[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Random Nobody (May 26, 2011)

This is still a debate?  Can't we all just agree that the big 3 pairings are awful and move on?


----------



## Bellville (May 26, 2011)

Hitt said:


> C'mon guys.  Really, this line of thinking ASTOUNDS me, given the character we're speaking about here!
> 
> This guy FORGAVE (not killing in the circumstances counts in this case) Mr. killed-his-master, and (up until that point) a ton of people in Konoha.  He continues to BELIEVE in a freaking monster of a boy who would just as soon put a few MORE holes in Naruto's chest and is indirectly responsible for a WAR that has killed 40,000 of his comrades already.
> 
> And people have a hard time believing he can forgive SAKURA, a woman he LOVES, for lying to him...especially when in the end it was (in her mind) for his benefit?


That's not what I'm saying at all.

Naruto would realize immediately after learning of how Sasuke died that Sakura was just trying to distract him. He would know she used his feelings to gain an advantage. He wouldn't want anything fake from her at ANY point. Luckily he noticed it right off the bat when she was confessing to him.

What _I_ don't get is people saying Sakura was ready to devote the rest of her life to Naruto like he would never figure out what happened. Sakura's was a short term plan at best. She was prepared for Naruto to hate her because she knew he would inevitably find out what she did. She wasn't expecting to marry the guy and keep up an unnecessary charade.


----------



## The Red Skull (May 26, 2011)

*So is Sakura off the market?*

Kishi just confirmed she still loves Sasuke so does this mean that NaruSaku aint happening? Also does it mean that he will end up with Hinnata? God I hope not nothing against the paring but she doesn't seem like Naruto's type and he needs a woman like his mom suggested. One that can keep him in line!


----------



## BroKage (May 26, 2011)

Honestly this should've been drilled into peoples' heads when Sakura failed to force herself to love Naruto and Naruto rejected her. But hope betrays logic.


----------



## ovanz (May 26, 2011)

Is divorced implemented in naruto world? if they ended in a shitty relationship they could always be with someone else.


----------



## eyeknockout (May 26, 2011)

the only way for naruto to get his girl is by killing the guy she likes. he can't hold back emotions, so he has to show lee whos the boss


----------



## Kurama (May 26, 2011)

Since when did Kushina say for him to choose a girl that would keep him in line?

Is there any evidence to support her needing to keep Minato in line?


----------



## Naruku (May 26, 2011)

again i'd ask, why do you guys care about which girl will end up with a gay person.


----------



## Summers (May 26, 2011)

"Main pairing debate thread"
We have a thread talking about this already.


----------



## Lovely (May 26, 2011)

Not so sure myself, but Sakura seems to think she is.


----------



## ajinko (May 26, 2011)

^ she seems to think she is? wow underneath the undeneath hmmmmmmmmmm........................


----------



## Lovely (May 26, 2011)

She rejected some guy basically asking her out cause she loves Sasuke. Obviously she doesn't want to bother with other men right now.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (May 26, 2011)

Does the guys' feelings not matter at all here? Sasuke DID just try to kill her three times if you've forgotten, and Naruto has interests of his own.


----------



## Lovely (May 26, 2011)

They do matter. No one mentioned anything mutual. Just the way Sakura is feeling atm.


----------



## AMtrack (May 26, 2011)

Afalstein said:


> Dude, WHAT?
> 
> Okay, Naruto called it a lie.  Kakashi, Kiba, and 'love doctors' Sai and Yamato assumed it was a lie.  Sakura did NOTHING to make her cause more believable, refusing to tell the truth about the matters she was hiding.  She has since not renewed the matter nor shown any animosity to anyone who suggests she was lying.  And in the most recent chapter, we see she's still in love with Sasuke.
> 
> And if you're saying that she was making an earnest offer to engage in a relationship built on a lie... well, that's not a whole lot better, but personally I even doubt that.  Sai believed Sakura was planning to assassinate Sasuke  long before they met Naruto.  The team was practically tailor-made for her to betray and gas.  Sai also pointed out that she knew this would make Naruto hate her.  So even before she 'confessed' to Naruto, she was on track to a plan that she knew would make Naruto despise her and, presumably, reject her.



OH lordy there's so much presupposition here its not funny.  All we know is that Sakura's actual confession was a lie.  Would she have gone back to Konoha if Naruto was to give up on Sasuke?  Idk, nothing in the manga suggests it was a lie at all.  NOTHING.  You can presuppose all you want but dont act like her offer was fake when nothing suggests that.  Everyone called bullshit on the fact that Sakura loved Naruto, and that she was over Sasuke.  Dont get it twisted.

She confessed to manipulate him..WHY would she try to manipulate him if she was 100% sure he'd reject her?  She wouldnt have bothered at all.  The only reason she would have confessed in that case would be that she really loved him.  We can all agree thats false, so it goes back to this:  she was hoping he would accept so he wouldnt throw himself in anymore danger.  Sakura was prepared to give up what she wanted purely to save Naruto.  So yeah, the offer was real...otherwise she wouldnt have made it.  It was a sacrifice of her desires for Naruto's health/safety.

And what part of all pairings suck dont you understand.  Yes, im saying Sakura really was offering a relationship based on the false pretense of "love".  Yes it does suck, and yes it fails.  So does every big 3 pairing in this manga.  All of them, if any were to happen, fail.  Sakura doing a 180 from Naruto's TnJ would be fail.  Naruto doing a 180 after ignoring Hinata for the whole manga = fail.  Sasuke doing a 180 after attempting to kill Sakura twice = fail.  Its all fail.  Whether that offer was a 'good' thing or not isnt the point.  The point is it was a legit offer, and of all pairings at least Sakura was willing to give up her body for the greater good


----------



## MasterSitsu (May 26, 2011)

AMtrack said:


> I know you're a die-hard NH fan and all but...there is absolutely NOTHING to prove that offer was false.  You can argue that parts of the confession were fake (ie her loving him) but the offer was definitely real.  Heart in it or not, the only reason that offer didnt happen is cuz Naruto didnt take her up on it.  Please dont make things up :X pairing fans like to do that.
> 
> And if Naruto confessed to anyone it'd be Sakura.  Obviously.  Its been his secret crush since chapter 1.  The only way that NH ship isnt sunk is if Naruto does a complete and random 180.  But that still makes the ship as equally retarded as NS or SS.  SS i'd say is the most retarded purely because
> 
> ...


Were still debating over her confession. 
EVERYTHING about the CONfession was false. There is no dissecting it like a worm to try and pull out stuff that might be true because there isn't. This chapter confirmed it that she apparently doesn't love Naruto in a romantic way.

She was manipulating Naruto no matter how much people try to spin it in a positive light.


----------



## Bellville (May 26, 2011)

Sakura planned to kill Sasuke whether or not Naruto believed her. He didn't believe her. She went on with her plan as quickly as possible, before Naruto figured out the reality of the situation.

If she was planning to go back to Konoha with Naruto (what indicator is there of _that_?) then she would not have saved him from any danger because Sasuke was going to get him one way or another.. because HELLO it's just been revealed that he's hunting other jinchuuriki.


----------



## Iovan (May 26, 2011)

Isn't it amusing how so many people who don't care about the pairings have posted so much in this pairings thread?


----------



## AMtrack (May 26, 2011)

Bellville said:


> Sakura planned to kill Sasuke whether or not Naruto believed her. He didn't believe her. She went on with her plan as quickly as possible, before Naruto figured out the reality of the situation.
> 
> If she was planning to go back to Konoha with Naruto (what indicator is there of _that_?) then she would not have saved him from any danger because Sasuke was going to get him one way or another.. because HELLO it's just been revealed that he's hunting other jinchuuriki.



To the guy above me, there's nothing im dissecting about the confession.  Please read instead of skim.  As far as this goes, plan was: Get Naruto to go home, kill Sasuke, go back to Naruto.  That was it.  No more no less.  We can suppose that she was planning to die anyway, so she wasnt gonna make good on that offer, or that she knew Naruto wouldnt believe, or a 1000 other reasons but manga gives no indication.  All we know is that she tried to manipulate him by using herself, and that it didnt work.  


Anyway it started off as lighthearted joke, and of course some fandom had to take it way too seriously.  Point is she offered her body, no one else has done that.  So thats my lulz, and I really only said it for lulz.  Chill, not like it proves anything.  Only makin a point at the statement "Sakura doesnt want Naruto".  This isnt really debateable cuz there's no manga proof for what was running through Sakura's head.  All we know is that she didnt really love Naruto.

EDIT:  And I never said it was a good plan, but Sakura thought she was saving him and thats entirely the point.


----------



## Mr Horrible (May 26, 2011)

Let's recap on SS shall we? Would anyone show me an example in the last 300 or so chapters that hasn't been cast in a negative light? This is the problem I have with people putting NS and SS at the same level. NS has not had this treatment in canon, whereas everytime SS is brought up, it gets kicked in the face. Hell, in this recent chapter we see Sakura looking hella melancholy after the fodder nin said the man she loves must be a great guy. Tell me, what is the positive interpretation of this for the chances SS?

As to people saying Sakura still loves him after 3 murder attempts, I would postulate that this could be a turning point for Sakura, fueled by those murder attempts/realization of Sasuke's current character. Because that panel is ambiguous in how Sakura actually regards Sasuke, we need further evidence on this matter. Although I concede that if we don't see any follow up soon(ish), then it looks unlikely that Sakura will ever switch from Sasuke. After all, if murder attempts can't do it, what can?

As to NS; this panel doesn't magically disprove all of the evidence from the rest of the manga that Sakura is/has gotten closer to Naruto. The idea of loving Naruto certainly doesn't make her physically ill, she just doesn't seem to be there (yet /ship).

I also made the point pages ago, Sakura already values Naruto more than she does Sasuke, I certainly wouldn't want my pairing to have that sort of crap in it. I swear if someone brings up SN here I will not be happy and likely post a LAP as to exactly why they are stupid


----------



## ajinko (May 26, 2011)

the narusaku argumets are quite desperate.


----------



## Mr Horrible (May 26, 2011)

The Rogue Kage said:


> Kishi just confirmed she still loves Sasuke so does this mean that NaruSaku aint happening? Also does it mean that he will end up with Hinnata? God I hope not nothing against the paring but she doesn't seem like Naruto's type and he needs a woman like his mom suggested. One that can keep him in line!



Well now, this is just one seething mass of fanon.


As long as Sakura loving Sasuke is shown negatively (i.e. Sakura thinking about how Sasuke isn't great at all), it remains unlikely to last to the end of the series.
No.
Sakura is certainly Naruto's type, as he's been after her since the manga began.
Bringing up Kushina as evidence _against_ NS is a bad move.


----------



## Mr Horrible (May 26, 2011)

ajinko said:


> the narusaku argumets are quite desperate.



Good counter.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (May 26, 2011)

It's already happened, but I suppose someone will inevitably try to drag Sasuke and Naruto or some other bond down with SS eventually, completely context that shows the wildly different backstories, natures, and motivations behind such bonds in comparison to SS.



ajinko said:


> the narusaku argumets are quite desperate.



Trying to beat Starr's record or something?


----------



## Raiden (May 26, 2011)

I don't think compability between Sakura and Naruto matters.

The gratest hinderance to the possibility of their pairing is that Naruto knows Sakura still has feelings for Sasuke. For that reason, if he does like her, he will always be ambilavent towards any of her advances. And cast very careful judgement, as he did when she tried tricking him into thinking she loved him.

Only way I see a pairing between them happening is if Sasuke dies.


----------



## AMtrack (May 26, 2011)

ajinko said:


> the narusaku argumets are quite desperate.



Lol no more desperate than the argument for any other pairing.  It amazes me how ppl will single out one and act like everything else is gravy.  Lets go over it for like the billionth time.

NH- its called Not Happening for reason.  By far one of the most hopeless pairings out of the bunch, if only because it has the LEAST panel time out of the other two, and also because Hinata is hardly a factor in the manga, much less a factor for Naruto at all.  How many times has Naruto even mentioned Hinata's name...thought of her?  Not many.  This basically requires a super big asspull.


SS- Actually, maybe this is more hopeless than NH.  Sasuke doesn't like women, which automatically makes this pairing impossible.  He also doesn't like Sakura, which makes it more impossible.  He tried to kill her.  Twice.  The second time he really would have killed her if Naruto didnt jump in like a superhero.  Sasuke applies thoughts about Sakura even LESS than Naruto does about Hinata.  The only one that stirs Sasuke's blood is Naruto >_>


NS- The only benefit this has is panel time.  But after 540 chapters, the only way Sakura is going to pull a 180 is if a really really big asspull happens.  Or if Sasuke dies.  Either way, Naruto is in a hopeless one-sided love affair with a girl who is in a hopeless one-sided love affair with a guy who is denying his obvious lust for Naruto.  At least they get along, talk to each other, and share panels.  And there's no murder involved. Always a plus.  But thats about it.  Not to mention a false confession is pretty major baggage.  Not as major as attempted murder, but still pretty major.


Really they all equally suck.  I dont see the point in arguing for any of them.  Quite frankly, none of the pairings have any romantic chemistry at all.


----------



## Iovan (May 26, 2011)

Mr Horrible said:


> Hell, in this recent chapter we see Sakura looking hella melancholy after the fodder nin said the man she loves must be a great guy.





What are you talking about? That's obviously the face of trulub


----------



## Omnipotent Pirate (May 26, 2011)

Meh, I don't give a shit who sakura loves. It's not a very important part of the chapter. it just confirmed sakura still holds love for sasuke and that she's unhappy with it. I loved her elbow strike too much to care.


----------



## Saunion (May 26, 2011)

I'm so tired of these depressed Sakura faces. I'm really thinking she should have died back at the last Team 7 reunion. At one point you have to take responsibilities for who you are and what you do. Wanna love a murdering psycho? Then go on and get killed. Make your bed and sleep in it.


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## AMtrack (May 26, 2011)

Saunion said:


> I'm so tired of these depressed Sakura faces. I'm really thinking she should have died back at the last Team 7 reunion. At one point you have to take responsibilities for who you are and what you do. Wanna love a murdering psycho? Then go on and get killed. Make your bed and sleep in it.



Lol well she tried but Naruto saved her..


----------



## AMtrack (May 26, 2011)

Raiden said:


> I don't think compability between Sakura and Naruto matters.
> 
> The gratest hinderance to the possibility of their pairing is that Naruto knows Sakura still has feelings for Sasuke. For that reason, if he does like her, he will always be ambilavent towards any of her advances. And cast very careful judgement, as he did when she tried tricking him into thinking she loved him.
> 
> Only way I see a pairing between them happening is if Sasuke dies.



You forgot TnJ and major asspull.  Those are two other possibilities.  Actually you can probably combine TnJ with major asspull.  COMBO!


----------



## Saunion (May 26, 2011)

AMtrack said:


> Lol well she tried but Naruto saved her..



Yeah and that's actually the second most hated aspect of Naruto for me, how he enables that whole SS bullshit by acting as Sakura's crutch constantly renewing her hope.

Add another reason why SS is awful: it needs Naruto to even get a tenth of a chance in hell to happen.


----------



## AMtrack (May 26, 2011)

Saunion said:


> Yeah and that's actually the second most hated aspect of Naruto for me, how he enables that whole SS bullshit by acting as Sakura's crutch constantly renewing her hope.
> 
> Add another reason why SS is awful: it needs Naruto to even get a tenth of a chance in hell to happen.



LOL!  Considering how crazy Sasuke is I wonder why Naruto enables the woman to pursue a serial killer.


----------



## Mr Horrible (May 26, 2011)

Iovan said:


> What are you talking about? That's obviously the face of trulub



Endgame pairing folks


----------



## Saunion (May 26, 2011)

AMtrack said:


> LOL!  Considering how crazy Sasuke is I wonder why Naruto enables the woman to pursue a serial killer.



Well to be honest he didn't really do it on purpose last time... It's just that Sakura's so stupid and or insane she somehow took Naruto claiming both him and Sasuke would die as a ray of hope for some Disney ending where everyone in Team 7 would be happey.

God this manga sucks.


----------



## son_michael (May 26, 2011)

MasterSitsu said:


> This chapter confirmed it that she apparently doesn't love Naruto in a romantic way.





there's no way in hell this chapter confirmed that, all it confirmed was that Sakura still thinks she loves Sasuke.


----------



## Skeith (May 26, 2011)

son_michael said:


> there's no way in hell this chapter confirmed that, all it confirmed was that Sakura still thinks she loves Sasuke.



If she loves Naruto, then he would of appear, where Sakura is thinking of who she loves, along with Sasuke. 

common sense strikes again.


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## Lovely (May 26, 2011)

Goodness.


----------



## Mr Horrible (May 26, 2011)

Skeith said:


> If she loves Naruto, then he would of appear, where Sakura is thinking of who she loves, along with Sasuke.
> 
> common sense strikes again.



Actually if you use some fridge logic, you could make the case that it isn't so cut and dry.

Even if Sakura is moving on from Sasuke, she did love him for 3-4 years, hence her default response to any proposal would be she's in love with Sasuke.

It's a mitigating factor rather than a proper counter, but it's there all the same.


----------



## Bellville (May 26, 2011)

Saunion said:


> Well to be honest* he didn't really do it on purpose *last time... It's just that Sakura's so stupid and or insane she somehow took Naruto claiming both him and Sasuke would die as a ray of hope for some Disney ending where everyone in Team 7 would be happey.
> 
> God this manga sucks.



Basically this. Naruto doesn't approve of her bullshitting herself, but he also doesn't exactly run around saying "keep your chin up cuz Sasuke will love you back one day! believe it!" He wants Sasuke back, he wants everyone to be happy, and though it pains him that she loves someone else, he understands how she feels.

Sakura still isn't convinced of Sasuke's goodness/things being peachy-keen if her thinking about him this chapter was any indication, so there's hope yet. Slim, to save myself from disappointment, but still there. 

Here's to hoping Sakura gets over Sasuke's badonkadonk by the end of this drama.


----------



## Skeith (May 26, 2011)

Mr Horrible said:


> Actually if you use some fridge logic, you could make the case that it isn't so cut and dry.



Fridge logic? 

I rather use common logic. 

But here the cut and dry: Sakura confession to Naruto was a lie. Sakura thought about Sasuke and not Naruto in this chapter.
Kishi said himself that Sakura still loves Sasuke.




> Even if Sakura is moving on from Sasuke, she did love him for 3-4 years, hence her default response to any proposal would be she's in love with Sasuke.



When was it ever stated she moving on from him?


----------



## Mr Horrible (May 26, 2011)

Skeith said:


> Fridge logic?
> 
> I rather use common logic.
> 
> ...



Sorry, I regularly become entranced with Tv Tropes, it's worse than Wikipedia for keeping me clicking stuff. Anyway fridge logic is when something isn't immediately obvious, but makes sense with further thought.

Actually the only way you can definitively say the confession to Naruto was a lie is if Sakura comes out and says she doesn't see Naruto in that way at all. Which is an unlikely scenario, considering some of the shiptease given to NS in part 2. Note that this is just countering anyone who says there's nothing between Sakura and Naruto, rather than saying Sakura loves Naruto romantically.

Kishi also described Sakura's feelings as selfish and immature. Doesn't some DB also mention how they feel like a prison/trap/curse or somesuch? I could probably go find it if you disagree.



> When was it ever stated she moving on from him?



Well, considering this is the first time she herself has confirmed that she loves him for all of part 2, what do you expect? Maybe Sakura just doesn't elucidate her feelings all that often...

Anyway, I originally said we need more evidence to tell if the events at the summit did act as a catalyst for Sakura to move away from Sasuke, as this particular panel is ambiguous in that regard.


----------



## Bellville (May 26, 2011)

Doesn't fridge logic have a bad connotation by definition..? Why would you use that to argue for a point?

to quote TvTropes itself:





> It refers to some illogical or implausible plot point that the audience doesn't realize during the show, but only long afterwards.


Bad argument is bad.


----------



## Vort (May 26, 2011)

There's clearly not enough BeeXTsunade in this thread. 



Mr Horrible said:


> Well now, this is just one seething mass of fanon.
> 
> 
> As long as Sakura loving Sasuke is shown negatively (i.e. Sakura thinking about how Sasuke isn't great at all), it remains unlikely to last to the end of the series.
> ...



- Acknowledgement that Sasuke isn't a great guy right now (understatement?) doesn't make it any less likely that Sakura won't still be in love with him at the end.
- I'm going to pretend the 'he' is supposed to be a 'she' making this SakuraXHinata at the end.  That's sounds good to me.
- Naruto hasn't shown much interest in Sakura in that fashion since Part 1.  He hasn't been after anyone other than Sasuke.  What exactly makes Sakura, Naruto's "type"?
- Bringing up Kushina to support or knock _any_ pairing involving Naruto is a bad move.  It was just some last minute generic motherly advice.


----------



## Skeith (May 27, 2011)

Mr Horrible said:


> Sorry, I regularly become entranced with Tv Tropes, it's worse than Wikipedia for keeping me clicking stuff. Anyway fridge logic is when something isn't immediately obvious, but makes sense with further thought.



o........k?



> Actually the only way you can definitively say the confession to Naruto was a lie is if Sakura comes out and says she doesn't see Naruto in that way at all. Which is an unlikely scenario, considering some of the shiptease given to NS in part 2. Note that this is just countering anyone who says there's nothing between Sakura and Naruto, rather than saying Sakura loves Naruto romantically.



1) Naruto said it was a lie.

2) Sai said it was a lie

3) Kiba knew it was a lie

4) _link_ (Says the real reason right on this page)




> Kishi also described Sakura's feelings as selfish and immature. Doesn't some DB also mention how they feel like a prison/trap/curse or somesuch? I could probably go find it if you disagree.



In one of his interviews (which was after her confession) Kishi state that, while Naruto is close, Sakura stills loves Sasuke. 





> Well, considering this is the first time she herself has confirmed that she loves him for all of part 2, what do you expect? Maybe Sakura just doesn't elucidate her feelings all that often...



There has been many moment of Sakura thinking of Sasuke. (crying over his picture at night. Not being able to stab him. Perving over a naked Sasuke and Sai)


> Anyway, I originally said we need more evidence to tell if the events at the summit did act as a catalyst for Sakura to move away from Sasuke, as this particular panel is ambiguous in that regard.



If anything, nothing has change, it been the same as it been since chapter 2.


----------



## Mr Horrible (May 27, 2011)

Vort said:


> There's clearly not enough BeeXTsunade in this thread.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



JiraTsu or gtfo 


Sakura's love is being portrayed as a weak/negative thing once again, it's this kind of representation from Kishi that makes SS unlikely to become canon.
Not a particular fan of yuri .
We know that Naruto has been in love/after Sakura for all of part 2. As he responded to Sai though, he doesn't feel worthy to tell Sakura how he feels unless he can redeem Sasuke. There was a reasonably early date request though. As to what makes her his type, it's not entirely known, but there was that chapter 3 moment of realization for Naruto.
You can't deny there are parallels between NS and MK, whether they mean anything is a different matter. Also in regards to which girl is more similar to Kushina, it's not debatable. Once more however, it may not actually mean anything, I was just saying that using M/K against N/S is a bad move.




Skeith said:


> o........k?



Sorry, thought you were confused as to what I was talking about.



> 1) Naruto said it was a lie.
> 
> 2) Sai said it was a lie
> 
> ...



There was a lot more going on in that confession than a simple 'it'. Why don't I just say that 'it' was Sakura's statement that she didn't feel anything for Sasuke anymore? Also there were elements of truth in her confession, that is undeniable, Sakura sincerely wanted Naruto back in Konoha.



> In one of his interviews (which was after her confession) Kishi state that, while Naruto is close, Sakura stills loves Sasuke.



As I said, it's a mitigating factor rather than a counter.

Also I'd like to point out the 'Naruto is close' part there...



> There has been many moment of Sakura thinking of Sasuke. (crying over his picture at night. Not being able to stab him. Perving over a naked Sasuke and Sai)



See above, I'm not trying to say she doesn't.



> If anything, nothing has change, it been the same as it been since chapter 2.



Only if you look from the broadest scale. Naruto knows Hinata loves him, Sakura knows Naruto loves her, Sasuke have tried to kill Sakura three times...

Seems a little different to me.


----------



## Vort (May 27, 2011)

Mr Horrible said:


> JiraTsu or gtfo
> 
> 
> Sakura's love is being portrayed as a weak/negative thing once again, it's this kind of representation from Kishi that makes SS unlikely to become canon.
> ...



The J-man is unfortunately no longer with us.  Bee will just have to please Tsunade in his place 


 It still doesn't make it anymore likely that Sakura will fall out of love with Sasuke, especially given that she hasn't even shown signs of that yet.
 Give in to the Yuri :ho
 I won't deny that Naruto loves Sakura, but beyond Sai's flashback which could also be interpreted as Naruto letting go, there isn't much evidence to suggest his feelings for Sakura are still romantic.  There has been no serious date request since Part 1 (if even those could be considered serious).  All Part 2 date requests are to distract from the fact that Naruto is angsting about Sasuke.  Even beyond that, Naruto shows no interest in getting closer to Sakura beyond their shared bond with Sasuke.
Yes I can.  There are no parallels between MK and NS.  Only one character is like Kushina and that is Naruto.  The 'someone like me', assuming that's the "right" translation, shouldn't be taken literally.  It's more of a generic advice to find someone that loves him for him.


----------



## Bellville (May 27, 2011)

Vort said:


> I won't deny that Naruto loves Sakura, but beyond Sai's flashback which could also be interpreted as Naruto letting go, there isn't much evidence to suggest his feelings for Sakura are still romantic.  There has been no serious date request since Part 1 (if even those could be considered serious).  All Part 2 date requests are to distract from the fact that Naruto is angsting about Sasuke.  Even beyond that, Naruto shows no interest in getting closer to Sakura beyond their shared bond with Sasuke.


Sai's flashback made it clear as day that he's holding back on seriously pursuing her until he solves the Sasuke issue, so of course there wouldn't be many serious attempts to get at her as of late.


----------



## Iamacloud (May 27, 2011)

I'd like to point some stuff out for those who think NaruSaku is still the most likely pairing. 

*1) All through the Kage meeting up to now, Sakura has been unaware of the "truth about Itachi". *

She cracked in front of Karui (while minutes before she was willing to walk into Danzo's office to complain about giving the permission to hunt Sasuke), because she couldn't understand what was happening. In her mind, Sasuke should have been free of his burden. And if not come back to Konoha after killing Itachi (but she sure hoped he would) at least settle down/become an hermit like Jiraiya but certainly not what Karui revealed, that he instead joined Akatsuki and attacked another host.

So Sakura went through all the kage meeting arc, without knowing that there is a reason behind Sasuke's reaction. His reaction is that of a batshit crazy guy (yeah, keep trying to please Itachi by spitting on his legacy, way to go Sasuke-kun!), and the "truth about Itachi" doesn't really condone his actions, but from Sakura's perspective, it will actually allow her to understand what happened to Sasuke, and she will probably feel bad for him, and have a serious look back at her recent actions.

In fact now is probably the right time to tell her from a writing standpoint so don't be surprised if Kakashi/Naruto and Sakura have a talk soon, and she asks about the "truth about Itachi".

*2) Let's try to have a look at it from Naruto's perspective. *

*Part 1*

At first he had a crush on a cute, smart girl in his class, Sakura, and that crush turned into love as he got to know her at the academy and later as a teammate in team 7. 

Like he thinks to himself while impersonating Sasuke on the bench with Sakura, he was drawn to her because he could relate to her desire to be acknowledge by Sasuke, and how serious she was about it. The very reason Naruto wanted to become Hokage as a kid was so that the village would be forced to acknowledge him, and the most important person for him, the one he wanted to be acknowledged by the most was the same as Sakura. 

Naruto being Naruto, he tried again and again, and did get his message across, but Sakura didn't take it as seriously as he was and showed repeatedly she wasn't interested in him that way. Problem is Sakura's crush on Sasuke had also evolved into love. And Naruto noticed, in the hospital, right there, he felt Sakura's love for Sasuke, and showed he was willing to admit defeat and move on gracefully if he failed to turn her around.

Then Sasuke leaves, and Naruto makes the PoaL to Sakura. He will bring back her love interest, even if it breaks his heart, because that's just who he is. In fact he would have done it even if Sakura didn't ask him, for himself. Again, that's just who Naruto is, and Sasuke is as important to him as a brother (more like very distant cousin in reality ) as he is to Sakura as a love interest. 

As far as Hinata goes, she managed to impress on Naruto enough to go from dark shy weirdo friend (kinda like Shino still is to Naruto today) to making Naruto notice that she could be amazing (his own words during her fight with Neji), and that he really liked people like her. 

Naruto understood more than anyone Hinata's desire to change herself, and that's why, when everyone thought Hinata was down for the count, Naruto prevented them from stopping the fight. He knew Hinata would stand up again, because he would have too. (feel free to read it again if you doubt it, you'll see Naruto thinking back about Hinata's words before he cheers for her).

And he felt grateful for the way her proud failure speech helped him defeat Neji "Where is Hinata, is she watching?", but Kishi had Hinata unconcious at the time. So his view of Hinata improved in part 1, she became a closer friend. Not anything even remotely like Sakura or Sasuke, or even Shikamaru, but Naruto discovered more than he expected in Hinata, and he liked what he saw.

*Part 2*

Back to Konoha in part 2, Naruto still probes Sakura now and then for any sign of romantic interest, but he never felt any. They did grow into close friends, but all the while he felt she still held the same feelings for Sasuke, and still dry on the romantic side for him. This is why Naruto said Sakura was lying to herself in her confession, he knew she wasn't honest.

Then Sai's flashback, which shows that not long before Hinata's confession, Naruto still held his feelings for Sakura. I know a lot of people interpret Naruto's words here as "He will confess when he brings Sasuke back". But I think that's wrong. Naruto would only confess to Sakura after bringing Sasuke back, but also only if he felt that he actually had a chance. If he brought Sasuke back, and Sakura and him got together, he would have simply moved on. 

He had not given up, but had shown that he was willing to if Sakura was happy with someone else. And, even as he turned into a hero in front of her eyes, never managed to turn Sakura on in a romantic way. 

Then comes Hinata's confession. As far as canon go, we know that he lost it at that point. Without the Minato miracle, Naruto was actually commiting suicide while releasing the Kyubi on the world. Of course it wasn't out of love that he went kyubi, but it was still from very intense emotions. Hinata managed to make him break the promise he made to himself after hurting Sakura in KN4. You may think what she did was stupid, but that kind of stupid is exactly the kind of stupid Naruto also is. From his perspective, what Hinata did was the right thing. 

And, while his reaction hasn't been shown in canon yet, someone like Naruto, who strived so hard for acknowledgement, had to be impressed when he finally figured out that Hinata had grown into what she is now in part because she was trying to impress him, trying to get acknowledged by him. 

Then comes Sakura's confession. She was forcing herself into a situation her heart didn't agree on. And that, to a hero like Naruto, is a big no-no. Being dishonest about your feelings to someone who is in love with you, also a big no-no. Sakura showed a side of herself that Naruto doesn't like much (went as far as to say he hated it). Of course, he also knows that she was trying to do the right thing. But the problem is that the right thing in Sakura's mind and the right thing in Naruto's mind are very different.

Kishi has kept Naruto's reaction to Hinata's confession secret, but I think it got him thinking, he had shown he was willing to move on from Sakura, but never actually considered some else yet. 

Now Hinata forced another option in his mind, and I think she has a pretty strong case. She is another option that shows the very same desire to be acknowledge and will to change herself through hard work and never giving up as he does. One that is actually closer to his core values than Sakura is. One that actually loves him for who he is, including his clown side, and not only because he became a hero. A girl who loves just as selflessly as he does. A friend of his, someone he already thought was amazing and a person he really liked.

Naruto is going to fall for Hinata.


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## Bane (May 27, 2011)

Seriously, sakura is a no. She just doesn't learn her lesson. She doesnt deserve naruto now. He needs to get with Hinata and make Byakugan yellow flashes already


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## AMtrack (May 27, 2011)

Bellville said:


> Sai's flashback made it clear as day that he's holding back on seriously pursuing her until he solves the Sasuke issue, so of course there wouldn't be many serious attempts to get at her as of late.



Pretty much this.  As much as fandom likes to sweep Sai's flashback under the rug, it will remain relevant until/if Sasuke returns.  Bottom line is, until the Sasuke thing is all resolved, Naruto is going to hold back on his feelings for Sakura.  There wont be any change until AFTER that point, if there is any change at all.  And there's no way to interpret that flashback as Naruto letting go.  Pure fandom logic.  It was really cut & dry, he cant confess until he fulfills his promise.  

For everyone's sanity there are some facts that need to be straightened out.

1) Sakura loves Sasuke

2) Naruto loves Sakura

3) Hinata loves Naruto

Thats it.  End of story.  No amount of fandom logic can change these facts.  Next are the plausible facts based on manga events:

1) Sakura is feeling conflicted about her feelings for the Sauce.  This doesn't mean she's moving on from him, its just that her feelings are troubling her.  That panel pretty much sums it up.  What happens as a result of this inner conflict is either: a) she continues to like him and remains depressed, or b) she finds the strength to move on.  Given Kishi's track record, "a" seems more likely but who knows.

2) Naruto's love for Sakura will remain relevant until Sasuke is brought/killed/goes ronin/etc.  Sai's flashback pretty much sums how this is gonna go; until naruto deals with Sasuke, his feelings for Sakura are gonna take a backseat.  There will likely be no change in his feelings, and once Sasuke is brought back one of two things will happen:  a)  Naruto will confess what he's felt all along; if Sakura chose option "b" then obvious is obvious she'll accept (b) Naruto wont confess at all and just decide to let her go, this is the likely scenario if Sakura chose option "a".


Basically until Sasuke is brought back/killed/made gay nothing is going to change, and you are lying to yourself if you think it will.  Once he's taken care of is when things will resolve. I will say this:  Sasuke isn't going to love Sakura, ever.  Really, he has no interest in girls.  Naruto will never fall in love with Hinata on-panel, ever.  Most youll get for NH is an epilogue of them together with no explanation..because really there is none.  He doesn't really talk to her lol.  And its too late in the manga to develop that ship on-panel.

Also, SS does not mean NH or vice versa.  So please stop side-shipping each other.  Kishi will likely only bother to make one canon pairing.  I think he said that in an interview but im too lazy to check, so take the interview thing with a grain of salt.  Imo either Sakura will switch teams to Naruto, or the pairing thing will be totally open ended or some cheap epilogue "look who ended up with who" shit.


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## NarutoIzDaMan (May 27, 2011)

AMtrack said:


> 1) Sakura is feeling conflicted about her feelings for the Sauce.  This doesn't mean she's moving on from him, its just that her feelings are troubling her.  That panel pretty much sums it up.  What happens as a result of this inner conflict is either: a) she continues to like him and remains depressed, or b) she finds the strength to move on.  Given Kishi's track record, "a" seems more likely but who knows.
> 
> 2) Naruto's love for Sakura will remain relevant until Sasuke is brought/killed/goes ronin/etc.  Sai's flashback pretty much sums how this is gonna go; until naruto deals with Sasuke, his feelings for Sakura are gonna take a backseat.  There will likely be no change in his feelings, and once Sasuke is brought back one of two things will happen: * a)  Naruto will confess what he's felt all along; if Sakura chose option "a" then obvious is obvious she'll accept (b) Naruto wont confess at all and just decide to let her go, this is the likely scenario if Sakura chose option "b".*




Great post, but I think you messed up the options a bit in the parts that are bolded. Naruto will only confess to Sakura IF she "finds the strength to move on" (option B) and she actually lets him know that he is the only one who truly makes her happy, not Sasuke. However, if Sakura chooses option A then Naruto (being the selfless guy that he is) will likely let her go and not say a word because he wouldn't want to force his feelings on to her when she's still hung up on Sasuke.


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## PikaCheeka (May 27, 2011)

People can analyze Sakura's facial expression all you want but the fact that Kishi gave Hinata an "I love Naruto!" cameo that was completely irrelevant and even awkward in the very chapter that Sakura thought about Sasuke should have been a big give-away as to what he's pushing. Sure if that cameo was never put in, I can see where the floor would be open for intense debate when it came to Sakura's facial expression, but because Kishi re-emphasized another pairing in the same chapter, it's kind of difficult to make the same argument.

That Hinata moment was a waste of space in the chapter. It was very obviously added to remind us that Hinata still loves Naruto. And it was added only pages after we are reminded that Sakura still feels for Sasuke. People who didn't pick up on how that was planned out should re-read the chapter.


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## AMtrack (May 27, 2011)

NarutoIzDaMan said:


> Great post, but I think you messed up the options a bit in the parts that are bolded. Naruto will only confess to Sakura IF she "finds the strength to move on" (option B) and she actually lets him know that he is the only one who truly makes her happy, not Sasuke. However, if Sakura chooses option A then Naruto (being the selfless guy that he is) will likely let her go and not say a word because he wouldn't want to force his feelings on to her when she's still hung up on Sasuke.




Lol yup I messed up, thanks for catching that.  I edited so i dont confuse anyone else .  Also I have a burning question that ive always wondered for NH shippers.  So please, i'd like the most die-hard of NHers to answer this for me.

Here is a common argument I get for NH and against NS:

1) If Sakura chooses Naruto he'll just be the "second choice" and a "rebound".  Fail pairing is fail.  Naruto deserves someone thats always loved him.

Now for the love of God someone please explain to me, how is that any different than Naruto switching to Hinata because he couldnt get Sakura.  Hinata would be his "second choice" and the "rebound" so doesn't Hinata-sama deserve someone thats loved her all along?  Anyone?  Yet ppl who make argument "1" act like this is totally okay.

And dont give me some LAP about how wonderful Hinata is.  Idc about that.  What I want to know is why its okay for Hinata to be a second choice for Naruto, but not for Naruto to be a second choice for Sakura.  They are the exact SAME.  Explain double-standard please.


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## Bellville (May 27, 2011)

PikaCheeka said:


> People can analyze Sakura's facial expression all you want but the fact that Kishi gave Hinata an "I love Naruto!" cameo that was completely irrelevant and even awkward in the very chapter that Sakura thought about Sasuke should have been a big give-away as to what he's pushing. Sure if that cameo was never put in, I can see where the floor would be open for intense debate when it came to Sakura's facial expression, but because Kishi re-emphasized another pairing in the same chapter, it's kind of difficult to make the same argument.
> 
> That Hinata moment was a waste of space in the chapter. It was very obviously added to remind us that Hinata still loves Naruto. And it was added only pages after we are reminded that Sakura still feels for Sasuke. People who didn't pick up on how that was planned out should re-read the chapter.


The juxtaposition of the two girls is certainly telling. Hinata, given strength by the thought of Naruto. Sakura, feeling down in the dumps, yet again, when thinking of Sasuke. NaruHina, while pretty stagnant overall, is doing rather well. SasuSaku? Not so much. Yes, her facial expression is relevant here. No matter what it _specifically_ indicates, consensus is that it's not a positive thing. Just because both of the girls in love show up in the same chapter doesn't indicate that they'll both be endgame.


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## Iamacloud (May 27, 2011)

AMtrack said:


> Here is a common argument I get for NH and against NS:
> 
> 1) If Sakura chooses Naruto he'll just be the "second choice" and a "rebound".  Fail pairing is fail.  Naruto deserves someone thats always loved him.
> 
> ...



It's quite simple really. If Sakura fell for Naruto, and really for Naruto, not because she couldn't get Sasuke, then it would be fine. The problem here is that her "confession" showed that no matter how much she realized Naruto is a hero and Sasuke is acting batshit crazy, she can't love Naruto like he would want her to love him. She has shown in canon that she doesn't love Naruto that way.

If Naruto was to fall for Hinata and Kishi presented it as "Naruto couldn't get Sakura" and so fell back on Hinata, then that would be equally bad, and you'd see me saying it's BS and that NH sucks. But I don't think that's what will happen. Naruto will fall for Hinata, for who she has become and realizing that he likes her more than he likes Sakura. As long as Kishi goes that road, then it will be fine with me. Just like it would have been fine with me if Kishi went a similar road with NaruSaku.


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## LeeTheG7 (May 27, 2011)

I've given up on Sakura and any fan that tells me otherwise


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## AMtrack (May 27, 2011)

PikaCheeka said:


> People can analyze Sakura's facial expression all you want but the fact that Kishi gave Hinata an "I love Naruto!" cameo that was completely irrelevant and even awkward in the very chapter that Sakura thought about Sasuke should have been a big give-away as to what he's pushing. Sure if that cameo was never put in, I can see where the floor would be open for intense debate when it came to Sakura's facial expression, but because Kishi re-emphasized another pairing in the same chapter, it's kind of difficult to make the same argument.
> 
> That Hinata moment was a waste of space in the chapter. It was very obviously added to remind us that Hinata still loves Naruto. And it was added only pages after we are reminded that Sakura still feels for Sasuke. People who didn't pick up on how that was planned out should re-read the chapter.



I really dont follow you at all, for a lot of reasons.

1) NH does not mean SS, and vice versa.  

2) Hinata's confession was not a pairing emphasis.  It can only be a pairing emphasis IF it goes both ways.  Naruto has not given it a thought, so really the whole purpose of that confession was for Hinata's growth and development.  It was not for pairing purposes.  If it had been, there would have been some feedback, or flashbacks of the confession, from Naruto by now.

3) For that matter, the girls expressing their feelings is not a pairing emphasis either.  Again, it can only be a pairing emphasis if it goes both ways, ie Sakura says "zomg I love Sasuke", and then we get some panels from Sasuke contemplating Sakura.  Both instances of the girls feelings are completely one-sided, so them saying anything related to their feelings is not "pairing pushing" by Kishi.  

4) Naruto/Sasuke are the main characters, thus their feelings are the main concern when figuring out what pairing is being pushed at all.  The girl's feelings only add drama/suspense to the whole thing.  In shonen the girls are trophies, plain and simple.  And this unrequited love business is a means for Kishi to develop his heroines.  So again, their feelings are pretty irrelevant, and dont tell anything.  Kishi could change them at a whim with no explanation because the girls come secondary to his two male leads.

5) Someone hit it on the head with the whole juxtaposition thing.  It only proves my point that the one-sided love business is just Kishi's way of developing both characters.  Hinata's one-sided love gives her strength, Sakura's causes her pain and grief.  In order for Sakura to grow as a character, she will have to get over her feelings.  That was kinda the whole point of this fodder scene, more Sakura development.

6) I have to say it again, Naruto and Sasuke's feelings are whats important.  As long as Naruto likes Sakura, the only pairing being pushed is NS, or a non-pairing ending.  As long as Sasuke shows no feelings towards any woman, there is no Sasu(insert person here) pairing being pushed.  

7) The point bears repeating, the girls' feelings are being used to develop them as characters.  In no way are they indicators of what pairings Kishi has in mind because they come secondary to the male leads.  Ppl ignore Naruto and Sasuke's feelings so much it kinda annoys me.  Until one of them starts having a change of heart, its NS or nothing/open-ended.

For the record, there's nothing to analyze about Sakura's expression.  She looks depressed. Plain and simple.


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## Fruits Basket Fan (May 27, 2011)

Bellville said:


> The juxtaposition of the two girls is certainly telling. Hinata, given strength by the thought of Naruto. Sakura, feeling down in the dumps, yet again, when thinking of Sasuke. NaruHina, while pretty stagnant overall, is doing rather well. SasuSaku? Not so much. Yes, her facial expression is relevant here. No matter what it _specifically_ indicates, consensus is that it's not a positive thing. *Just because both of the girls in love show up in the same chapter doesn't indicate that they'll both be endgame*.



This!



Especially when this chapter merely repeated what we already know.


Yes, the two girls are still in love with their initial love interests (like we did not know since two arcs ago *sarcasm*)......




Honestly, this thread.......We have yet to see any differences on Naruto and Sasuke's views on Hinata and Sakura, respectively.


Until then, do not make the same mistakes when NF was in fap mode and tried to "assume" what was going to happen afterward in chapters 296-7, 437, 450, 469, and Kage Summit Arc chapters since all of their "follow ups" were totally different or not even addressed from what NF "expected"......


......Kishi loves to troll the Big 3, after all.


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## Iovan (May 27, 2011)

PikaCheeka said:


> People can analyze Sakura's facial expression all you want but the fact that Kishi gave Hinata an "I love Naruto!" cameo that was completely irrelevant and even awkward in the very chapter that Sakura thought about Sasuke should have been a big give-away as to what he's pushing.



That is a bit too convenient of an interpretation. You ignore the difference between the two examples given. You are right that it is important that examples of both were shown in this chapter. You however need to take in the contrast between the two. Sakura is upset. She sees the Dark Sauce and is unhappy that he is the "great" somebody else. In contrast Hinata sees a happy and heroic Naruto. There is a big difference between the two. Both instances reveal Sakura and Hinata's feelings but the messages both instances convey are vastly different.

--After Edit--

Let me explain before this is glossed over or misunderstood. The difference that I see isn't which ship is more likely or has more love. The difference is in Hinata draws strength from her feelings for Naruto (I'm not NH so don't ask) while Sakura is hurt by her feelings for Sasuke. That's the biggest message from it. The great guy isn't the one Sakura likes. It's Naruto (not that I am pushing NS).


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## Mr Horrible (May 27, 2011)

@Vort

You don't think a negative taint on Sakura's feelings makes them less likely to last until the end of the manga? :S
What Bell said.
It's a moot point, because I ceded that the parallels don't have to mean anything. Also if the advice is as you say, then it applies to both pairings equally, anyway I could care less about the advice, I was talking about different things.



Iamacloud said:


> [sp]So Sakura went through all the kage meeting arc, without knowing that there is a reason behind Sasuke's reaction. His reaction is that of a batshit crazy guy (yeah, keep trying to please Itachi by spitting on his legacy, way to go Sasuke-kun!), and the "truth about Itachi" doesn't really condone his actions, but from Sakura's perspective, it will actually allow her to understand what happened to Sasuke, and she will probably feel bad for him, and have a serious look back at her recent actions.
> 
> In fact now is probably the right time to tell her from a writing standpoint so don't be surprised if Kakashi/Naruto and Sakura have a talk soon, and she asks about the "truth about Itachi".[/sp]



What I object to is the notion that the truth behind Itachi and the Uchiha cast Sasuke in a gentler light. So instead of his innocent family being ruthlessly slaughtered by a merciless brother, his dead family was plotting to overthrow Konoha and the brother he threw everything away for was trying to keep the peace. In no way does it justify Sasuke wanting to kill everyone in Konoha for _smiling_, it does not make him an anti-hero. Hell, it sounds like you want Sakura to rationalize what Sasuke has become; do you not see how SS seems to shit on her character?



> [sp]*2) Let's try to have a look at it from Naruto's perspective. *
> 
> *Part 1*
> 
> ...



It was the idea of striving for acknowledgement that Naruto was struck by, not the target.



> [sp]Naruto being Naruto, he tried again and again, and did get his message across, but Sakura didn't take it as seriously as he was and showed repeatedly she wasn't interested in him that way. Problem is Sakura's crush on Sasuke had also evolved into love. And Naruto noticed, in the hospital, right there, he felt Sakura's love for Sasuke, and showed he was willing to admit defeat and move on gracefully if he failed to turn her around.
> 
> Then Sasuke leaves, and Naruto makes the PoaL to Sakura. He will bring back her love interest, even if it breaks his heart, because that's just who he is. In fact he would have done it even if Sakura didn't ask him, for himself. Again, that's just who Naruto is, and Sasuke is as important to him as a brother (more like very distant cousin in reality ) as he is to Sakura as a love interest. [/sp]



No. Naruto did not show he would move on. He did finally acknowledge how much Sakura cared of Sasuke though.

That second paragraph seems like there's no real point and just pads your post.



> [sp]As far as Hinata goes, she managed to impress on Naruto enough to go from dark shy weirdo friend (kinda like Shino still is to Naruto today) to making Naruto notice that she could be amazing (his own words during her fight with Neji), and that he really liked people like her.
> 
> Naruto understood more than anyone Hinata's desire to change herself, and that's why, when everyone thought Hinata was down for the count, Naruto prevented them from stopping the fight. He knew Hinata would stand up again, because he would have too. (feel free to read it again if you doubt it, you'll see Naruto thinking back about Hinata's words before he cheers for her).[/sp]



How could Naruto understand Hinata's desire to change herself? She wanted to go from being weak and cowardly, to strong and brave (well headstrong and brave in Naruto's case ). Naruto never went through that, we don't see him wanting to change who he is as a person, he just wants everyone to see him as that person rather than the Kyuubi.

Also I would point out, Naruto empathizes with people very well, he shows remarkable insight into peoples' characters throughout the series.



> [sp]And he felt grateful for the way her proud failure speech helped him defeat Neji "Where is Hinata, is she watching?", but Kishi had Hinata unconcious at the time. So his view of Hinata improved in part 1, she became a closer friend. Not anything even remotely like Sakura or Sasuke, or even Shikamaru, but Naruto discovered more than he expected in Hinata, and he liked what he saw.[/sp]



Yes, she had become Naruto's friend at the end of part 1.



> [sp]*Part 2*
> 
> Back to Konoha in part 2, Naruto still probes Sakura now and then for any sign of romantic interest, but he never felt any. They did grow into close friends, but all the while he felt she still held the same feelings for Sasuke, and still dry on the romantic side for him. This is why Naruto said Sakura was lying to herself in her confession, he knew she wasn't honest.[/sp]



Are you joking? Start of part 2; 'do I look more womanly now? *blush*', clearly she seemed dry on Naruto as a romantic partner.. 



> [sp]Then Sai's flashback, which shows that not long before Hinata's confession, Naruto still held his feelings for Sakura. I know a lot of people interpret Naruto's words here as "He will confess when he brings Sasuke back". But I think that's wrong. Naruto would only confess to Sakura after bringing Sasuke back, but also only if he felt that he actually had a chance. If he brought Sasuke back, and Sakura and him got together, he would have simply moved on.
> 
> He had not given up, but had shown that he was willing to if Sakura was happy with someone else. And, even as he turned into a hero in front of her eyes, never managed to turn Sakura on in a romantic way. [/sp]



It's all conjecture as to what Naruto will do once he brings Sasuke back, Sai's flashback only tells us he won't act until then. Personally, I'd like to think Naruto has enough self respect to admit to Sakura how he feels and leave it to her. Anyway, it's just guesswork.

As for the second part; No. Naruto has never shown himself giving up loving Sakura. He has backed off for certain reasons, but through that he has still loved her. 

Also, all the NS shiptease in part 2 suggests that Sakura isn't as dry on Naruto as you'd like to think. Now I don't mean she loves him, just contradicting the claims that there's no return on Sakura's side.



> [sp]Then comes Hinata's confession. As far as canon go, we know that he lost it at that point. Without the Minato miracle, Naruto was actually commiting suicide while releasing the Kyubi on the world. Of course it wasn't out of love that he went kyubi, but it was still from very intense emotions. Hinata managed to make him break the promise he made to himself after hurting Sakura in KN4. You may think what she did was stupid, but that kind of stupid is exactly the kind of stupid Naruto also is. From his perspective, what Hinata did was the right thing. [/sp]



Because that meltdown was all about Hinata . 

Screw it, I can't be bothered to contest this point, it's so warped and misguided that there's no point 



> [sp]And, while his reaction hasn't been shown in canon yet, someone like Naruto, who strived so hard for acknowledgement, had to be impressed when he finally figured out that Hinata had grown into what she is now in part because she was trying to impress him, trying to get acknowledged by him. [/sp]



The sheer lack of... anything in canon generally idicates that the future is slim for NH. I mean even if it becomes canon, it'd have had to occur off panel at this stage, which is .



> [sp]Then comes Sakura's confession. She was forcing herself into a situation her heart didn't agree on. And that, to a hero like Naruto, is a big no-no. Being dishonest about your feelings to someone who is in love with you, also a big no-no. Sakura showed a side of herself that Naruto doesn't like much (went as far as to say he hated it). Of course, he also knows that she was trying to do the right thing. But the problem is that the right thing in Sakura's mind and the right thing in Naruto's mind are very different.[/sp]



Sakura knew Naruto loved her. Sakura wanted Naruto to be safe in Konoha. Sakura tried to manipulate Naruto's feelings for her into his safe return. Where is it shown that Sakura tried to make herself love him? Sounds like a little bit of fanon got mixed into your canon by mistake.

Also, where are theses ramifications of the confession? Naruto certainly hasn't acted any differently towards her. 



> [sp]Kishi has kept Naruto's reaction to Hinata's confession secret, but I think it got him thinking, he had shown he was willing to move on from Sakura, but never actually considered some else yet. [/sp]



Nope, not shown as willing to let go of his feelings for Sakura 

Question; Kishi doesn't seem to care about NH, so why should I?


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## AMtrack (May 27, 2011)

Mr Horrible said:


> Question; Kishi doesn't seem to care about NH, so why should I?



LOL did I start a "lets ask the NH fandom a question" game?


EDIT: @Iamacloud- TY for answering that question, but here's my problem with it.  At this stage of the game, ie this late in the manga, there's no way justify Naruto or Sakura switching their feelings other than "they couldnt get the person they liked."  Thats just how I feel about it.  The only reason Naruto would consider Hinata is if he gave up on Sakura, and he wont give up on Sakura until he knows he'll never have her.  Hinata is doomed to be a rebound no matter what.

Sakura *could* change her feelings for Sasuke just because he's such a crazy psychopath and its dangerous to her health, but she'd only fall back on Naruto because he's an obvious "second choice."  I mean if you decide not to like someone anymore, its pretty obvious you go down the list to the next eligible person that happens to like you already.  Kishi could have done this one right, but its too late now.  There's no way around the "rebound" thing right now, too late in the manga.


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## Mr Horrible (May 27, 2011)

AMtrack said:


> LOL did I start a "lets ask the NH fandom a question" game?



I was busy typing that out, there were half a page of new posts by the time I was done. Also damn character limit, I really didn't feel like making two posts though


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## Iamacloud (May 27, 2011)

Mr Horrible said:


> What I object to is the notion that the truth behind Itachi and the Uchiha cast Sasuke in a gentler light. So instead of his innocent family being ruthlessly slaughtered by a merciless brother, his dead family was plotting to overthrow Konoha and the brother he threw everything away for was trying to keep the peace. In no way does it justify Sasuke wanting to kill everyone in Konoha for _smiling_, it does not make him an anti-hero. Hell, it sounds like you want Sakura to rationalize what Sasuke has become; do you not see how SS seems to shit on her character?



Konoha had a part to play in the Uchiha massacre... not hard to understand why Sasuke would want revenge. Naruto sure connected the dots easily enough, just reread how he talked to the rookies, or how he even tried to tell Sakura about it before Kakashi stopped him...

And I don't give a damn about SS.



> It was the idea of striving for acknowledgement that Naruto was struck by, not the target.



And Hinata is an even purer version of that.



> How could Naruto understand Hinata's desire to change herself? She wanted to go from being weak and cowardly, to strong and brave (well headstrong and brave in Naruto's case ). Naruto never went through that, we don't see him wanting to change who he is as a person, he just wants everyone to see him as that person rather than the Kyuubi.



Because Naruto has a similar struggle? Wanting to change himself from a loser to Hokage? His whole fight against Neji was around that theme, and a lot of his rivalry with Sasuke exploited that theme. Did you forget Naruto started the story as a weak loser?



> Are you joking? Start of part 2; 'do I look more womanly now? *blush*', clearly she seemed dry on Naruto as a romantic partner..



A women fishing for compliments on her look doesn't imply romantic interest lol. And the recent chapters 469-now show very clearly that while some readers interpreted those scenes as romantic, Naruto and Sakura didn't (nor did anyone else around them). And it's their view that really matters.



> It's all conjecture as to what Naruto will do once he brings Sasuke back, Sai's flashback only tells us he won't act until then. Personally, I'd like to think Naruto has enough self respect to admit to Sakura how he feels and leave it to her. Anyway, it's just guesswork.



I think you fail to grasp Naruto's character. Already back in part 1 he revealed that he would be willing to admit defeat and let Sakura be happy with Sasuke if that's what she wanted. 



> As for the second part; No. Naruto has never shown himself giving up loving Sakura. He has backed off for certain reasons, but through that he has still loved her.



I said willing to, not giving up, there is a difference.



> Also, all the NS shiptease in part 2 suggests that Sakura isn't as dry on Naruto as you'd like to think. Now I don't mean she loves him, just contradicting the claims that there's no return on Sakura's side.



Again, it's now been revealed that Sakura and Naruto didn't see any of those moments as romantic, only fans did. All those moments were actually presented as ambiguous, could have been romantic, or could have been just close friendship. Sakura confirming herself that she still loves Sasuke, along with Naruto's and their friends reaction to her confession show that no one in the Narutoverse saw those moments as signs of romantic interest in Naruto by Sakura. 



> Because that meltdown was all about Hinata .



Naruto said so himself....



> The sheer lack of... anything in canon generally idicates that the future is slim for NH. I mean even if it becomes canon, it'd have had to occur off panel at this stage, which is .



Hinata only impacted two of Naruto's fights... not bad at all for a side character. There has been more than enough NH moments by shounen standards.



> Sakura knew Naruto loved her. Sakura wanted Naruto to be safe in Konoha. Sakura tried to manipulate Naruto's feelings for her into his safe return. Where is it shown that Sakura tried to make herself love him? Sounds like a little bit of fanon got mixed into your canon by mistake.



It's just freaking obvious? She was in love with someone else and tried to force herself to love Naruto because it was the right thing to do (yet not what she wanted). 



> Also, where are theses ramifications of the confession? Naruto certainly hasn't acted any differently towards her.



Really? When has Naruto ever said anything close to "I hate people who lie to themselves" to Sakura before? 



> Nope, not shown as willing to let go of his feelings for Sakura



Or you don't want to see it...



Mr Horrible said:


> Question; Kishi doesn't seem to care about NH, so why should I?



*looks at Hinata's confession*

*looks at Sakura's confession*

I'll take not being addressed yet over what happened to NaruSaku, thank you very much.

Yeah, sure, NH is the one Kishi doesn't care about. That's why he's making NS look so good and NH look so bad.


----------



## Mr Horrible (May 27, 2011)

Iamacloud said:


> *looks at Hinata's confession*
> 
> *looks at Sakura's confession*
> 
> ...



And here I thought he was making SS - or more specifically Sakura's feelings for Sasuke - look bad. 

All of the evidence you're using as anti-NS also seems to make Sakura feel sad/bad for loving Sasuke. I'll give you a hint as to why; it brings up Sakura's lingering feelings for Sasuke. 

NH is off in the naughty corner for no apparent reason.


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## PikaCheeka (May 27, 2011)

Bellville said:


> The juxtaposition of the two girls is certainly telling. Hinata, given strength by the thought of Naruto. Sakura, feeling down in the dumps, yet again, when thinking of Sasuke. NaruHina, while pretty stagnant overall, is doing rather well. SasuSaku? Not so much. Yes, her facial expression is relevant here. No matter what it _specifically_ indicates, consensus is that it's not a positive thing. *Just because both of the girls in love show up in the same chapter doesn't indicate that they'll both be endgame*.



Did I say this? Nope. 



AMtrack said:


> I really dont follow you at all, for a lot of reasons.
> 
> 1) NH does not mean SS, and vice versa.



I admit I didn't bother reading your tl;;dr because right here in your second sentence you proved that you misinterpreted my entire post.



Iovan said:


> That is a bit too convenient of an interpretation. You ignore the difference between the two examples given. You are right that it is important that examples of both were shown in this chapter. *You however need to take in the contrast between the two. *Sakura is upset. She sees the Dark Sauce and is unhappy that he is the "great" somebody else. In contrast Hinata sees a happy and heroic Naruto. There is a big difference between the two. Both instances reveal Sakura and Hinata's feelings but the messages both instances convey are vastly different.....



Doesn't change the fact that they are there. You're acting as if I delved into a deep interpretation of them when I merely pointed them out.


All three of you very purposefully (I hope so anyway) misinterpreted what I said.


----------



## AMtrack (May 27, 2011)

You know if you look at how the one-sided love thing affects each character, NS looks like the best pairing evar.  Why? Omg I'll explain it to you.

NS- Naruto is not having his feelings reciprocated, but does that matter? No.  He's kicking ass, taking names, and is in beast-mode right now.  The girl he likes gave him a false confession?  Doesn't matter..he told her to shut up and stop lying, and then saved her ass in an epic heroic gar panel.  Naruto just said "screw this, these feelings gotta wait till I finish kicking ass".  He's not pining after his crush like some pathetic school kid..he's takin care of business.

NH- this is second best, because Hinata's love gives her strength.  Its inferior to NS because she still looks pretty pitiful.  I mean, all she does is think about Naruto, who doesnt really give a THOUGHT about her.  Not to mention she threw herself in front of a sociopath and confessed in the MIDDLE of a fight just so the guy she likes would actually notice her.  I mean it could have waited...seriously.  Hinata's Naruto-kun obsession is pretty pitiful, but at least its not hindering her character.

SS- Terribad.  Sakura is a pathetic lump of flesh, and has been ever since Team 7 was Team 7.  Nothing good has ever come from her liking Sasuke.  Nothing.  Its only gotten worse, and worse, and worse.  Look how pitiful and dejected she looks now.  Definitely the most negative one-sided love affair in Naruto.


Judging that alone, NS is actually the best pairing, and SS the worst.  This isnt saying much but its something lulzy i just now noticed.

EDIT:  





PikaCheeka said:


> I admit I didn't bother reading your tl;;dr because right here in your second sentence you proved that you misinterpreted my entire post.
> .



I couldn't make heads or tails about what you were trying to say.  It was so ambiguous I could only guess.  You weren't clear at all, which is why I said "I dont follow you".  I was hoping you'd actually clarify, but maybe i shouldnt have got my hopes up.  You didn't really make a point, just stated what everyone already knew and gave some cryptic "kishi did this for a reason, is pushing something" reasoning.  I mean really o.o what exactly is your point other than "these pairings will never be requited".  Or was that the point.


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## Bellville (May 27, 2011)

PikaCheeka said:


> Did I say this? Nope.
> 
> 
> All three of you very purposefully (I hope so anyway) misinterpreted what I said.



Your post came off as implicating that line of thought. I figured since you didn't say it outright this would be the response. It'd help to clarify what you meant because it really didn't come across.


----------



## WraithX959 (May 27, 2011)

I really truly can't believe there has been this much endless discussion about pairings that have been pretty much been obvious since part 1. It was always going to be NaruHina and SasuSaku. NF FTL


----------



## Iovan (May 27, 2011)

PikaCheeka said:


> Doesn't change the fact that they are there. You're acting as if I delved into a deep interpretation of them when I merely pointed them out.
> 
> 
> All three of you very purposefully (I hope so anyway) misinterpreted what I said.



Well the way you brought up the two without any effort to distinguish between them certainly doesn't make what you contend now look true. Hinata and Sakura both being shown having feelings toward Naruto and Sasuke respectively wasn't the main point of their inclusion. Otherwise Sakura wouldn't have been shown reacting the way she did. On the other hand the *difference* between Sakura and Hinata's panels is profound.


----------



## AMtrack (May 27, 2011)

WraithX959 said:


> I really truly can't believe there has been this much endless discussion about pairings that have been pretty much been obvious since part 1. It was always going to be NaruHina and SasuSaku. NF FTL



LOL you have to be trolling..good troll btw


----------



## WraithX959 (May 27, 2011)

AMtrack said:


> LOL you have to be trolling..good troll btw



Shhh... you'll ruin everything 

Seriously though, I wasn't completely trolling. Sakura was always the girl Sasuke unconsciously confided in, and the same goes for Naruto with Hinata. When Sasuke first spoke of killing Itachi it was Sakura who was there, when he abandoned Konoha it was Sakura that he said goodbye to. As for Naruto, when he lost his confidence prior to fighting Neji it, was Hinata that restored it. Hinata was also there when Naruto went off for training, supporting him from the shadows like always. Not to mention it was Hinata who saved Naruto when he found himself in his most dire situation.

If you pay attention to Kishimoto's characters there is actually quite a bit of depth to them. Naruto intially fell in love with Sakura's persona, his own glorified interpretation of who she really was, he continued to like her because he saw that she was actually quite similar to himself. Sakura was never the sweet demure girl he thought she was, in fact Sakura was and is just about as crude as Naruto. She was only acting like what she thought Sasuke's ideal girl would be.

To make things a little clearer, personality wise, Sakura is the female Naruto. That is why she will end up with Sasuke. Furthermore, Sasuke is the male Hinata, he's insecure and he's always running away from his true feelings because he's afraid of getting hurt. So, in a way NarutoXSasuke is the true pairing, Kishimoto just created Sakura and Hinata as stand-ins for the two male protagonist.


----------



## Summers (May 27, 2011)

Has anyone considered...Harem? Its is a manga after all.


----------



## Mr Horrible (May 27, 2011)

Iamacloud said:


> Konoha had a part to play in the Uchiha massacre... not hard to understand why Sasuke would want revenge. Naruto sure connected the dots easily enough, just reread how he talked to the rookies, or how he even tried to tell Sakura about it before Kakashi stopped him...
> 
> And I don't give a damn about SS.



Crazy Sasuke is crazy, there's no changing that either way. Sakura wouldn't regret anything she did if/when she finds out about Itachi.

It's good that this isn't about SS, I'm far more ASS than pro anything else.



> And Hinata is an even purer version of that.



Eh, Sakura got there first. Hinata's always been more about changing herself, so it's a secondary effect for her.



> Because Naruto has a similar struggle? Wanting to change himself from a loser to Hokage? His whole fight against Neji was around that theme, and a lot of his rivalry with Sasuke exploited that theme. Did you forget Naruto started the story as a weak loser?



Naruto never once thought he was inferior to Sasuke, the can be extrapolated into him never thinking he's a loser. He wanted everyone to know him for him, rather than the Kyuubi.



> A women fishing for compliments on her look doesn't imply romantic interest lol. And the recent chapters 469-now show very clearly that while some readers interpreted those scenes as romantic, Naruto and Sakura didn't (nor did anyone else around them). And it's their view that really matters.



I find it weird that you consider romance a binary system, the signs are there that Sakura feels something for Naruto, more than just friendship sometimes.



> I think you fail to grasp Naruto's character. Already back in part 1 he revealed that he would be willing to admit defeat and let Sakura be happy with Sasuke if that's what she wanted.
> 
> I said willing to, not giving up, there is a difference.



Meh, doesn't change my point. He was only ever willing to back off, not stop loving Sakura.

As to what happens if/when Sasuke returns; I view it as something Naruto should do for himself, confess to the girl he loves, even if he doesn't think she'll return his feelings.

Anyway, so much has changed since part 1, I don't think what Naruto did then can be a straight comparison.



> Again, it's now been revealed that Sakura and Naruto didn't see any of those moments as romantic, only fans did. All those moments were actually presented as ambiguous, could have been romantic, or could have been just close friendship. Sakura confirming herself that she still loves Sasuke, along with Naruto's and their friends reaction to her confession show that no one in the Narutoverse saw those moments as signs of romantic interest in Naruto by Sakura.



'And Naruto'? What do you think he did when Sakura was going to feed him? Also to think Sakura was unaware of the connotations is deliberate ignorance.

As far as 'no one else' is concerned, how do you explain Yamato? Him talking about platonic feelings there wouldn't fit with Sakura's reaction to his words.

What does make sense is that everyone in-universe also knew of Sakura's feelings for Sasuke, regardless of what she felt for Naruto.



> Naruto said so himself....



Well now, saying that melt down was all about Hinata is like saying Naruto was retrieving Sasuke for Sakura's sake. There were other factors in play, although admittedly, Hinata was a central cause.



> Hinata only impacted two of Naruto's fights... not bad at all for a side character. There has been more than enough NH moments by shounen standards.



Not by this shounen's standards... You know, the one where it counts.



> It's just freaking obvious? She was in love with someone else and tried to force herself to love Naruto because it was the right thing to do (yet not what she wanted).



I explained what I thought was obvious, everything apart from that is inference. 



> Really? When has Naruto ever said anything close to "I hate people who lie to themselves" to Sakura before?



Sure, but my point was that there are no ramifications of that. Naruto certainly doesn't appear to act any different around Sakura. 



> Or you don't want to see it...



That may also be explained by it not being there in the first place.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (May 27, 2011)

PikaCheeka said:


> Doesn't change the fact that they are there. You're acting as if I delved into a deep interpretation of them when I merely pointed them out.



Very few were denying that they weren't there. Repeatedly, the more rational folk have stated that nothing has really changed. So what was the point?



> All three of you very purposefully (I hope so anyway) misinterpreted what I said.



That's not a deep interpretation that is something clearly observable. Why are you getting so touchy about this in the first place? Sakura's infatuation towards Sasuke is detrimental to her, that's really what stood out, and she needs to let go of the romantic expectations of a guy that tried to murder her for the sake of her character.



WraithX959 said:


> Shhh... you'll ruin everything
> 
> Seriously though, I wasn't completely trolling. Sakura was always the girl Sasuke unconsciously confided in, and the same goes for Naruto with Hinata. When Sasuke first spoke of killing Itachi it was Sakura who was there, when he abandoned Konoha it was Sakura that he said goodbye to. As for Naruto, when he lost his confidence prior to fighting Neji it, was Hinata that restored it.



You need to re-read the story because none of this is true at all, except for maybe that one time Naruto had that talk with Hinata before the Chunin exams. Most things Sakura found out about Sasuke were not because he addressed her, but because he was addressing himself. She went through and admitted to the fact that she didn't really know or understand Sasuke that well and that they didn't communicate with each other much. Sakura didn't have the optimism that Naruto or Kakashi did about Sasuke, it wasn't because she knew him that well that she'd know he'd leave, it was because she didn't that she felt he would. 



> Hinata was also there when Naruto went off for training, supporting him from the shadows like always



That isn't him confiding in her though.



> Not to mention it was Hinata who saved Naruto when he found himself in his most dire situation



He was gonna break out regardless as he was already on the verge of mentally breaking, but she did serve as that final straw that broke the camel's back.



> If you pay attention to Kishimoto's characters there is actually quite a bit of depth to them. Naruto intially fell in love with Sakura's persona, his own glorified interpretation of who she really was, he continued to like her because he saw that she was actually quite similar to himself.



That applies to all their infatuations you know. They all fell for the idealized version of their affections, and how things went from there are drastically different. 



> Sakura was never the sweet demure girl he thought she was, in fact Sakura was and is just about as crude as Naruto. She was only acting like what she thought Sasuke's ideal girl would be.



He knew she wasn't demure. She had been berating him since they were children. 



> To make things a little clearer, personality wise, Sakura is the female Naruto. That is why she will end up with Sasuke.



She isn't. Kushina is. Sakura may have some similarities with Naruto, but they have very different personalities. Then and especially now. 

What a lousy argument, that's not even one at all and it all goes back to how it just opens the door for NaruSaku fans to bring in their own barrel of reasons, parallels, and interpretations. That was pure guesswork, with no really no backing in the story. 



> Furthermore, Sasuke is the male Hinata, he's insecure and he's always running away from his true feelings because he's afraid of getting hurt.



WTF. This isn't true either! Sasuke wasn't shy, he was anti-social. There's a world of difference between the two. When he wanted to say something he said it and was blunt about it. He doesn't hide his true feelings, he lacks the tact to do so, he's always been upfront about how he feels about people because to him, it's what he thinks that matters. 



> So, in a way NarutoXSasuke is the true pairing, Kishimoto just created Sakura and Hinata as stand-ins for the two male protagonist.



If you still aren't trolling, that had to be among the worst arguments I've seen yet.


----------



## Bellville (May 27, 2011)

Was there anything "unconscious" about Naruto confiding in Hinata when their conversation was about insecurities, failure, and perseverance in the first place..?

And what did Sasuke "unconsciously confide" in Sakura..?

Edit: nvm. Saw the post where that came from. Can't even take it seriously now. ignore this post. carry on.


----------



## zuul (May 27, 2011)

PikaCheeka said:


> People can analyze Sakura's facial expression all you want but the fact that Kishi gave Hinata an "I love Naruto!" cameo that was completely irrelevant and even awkward in the very chapter that Sakura thought about Sasuke should have been a big give-away as to what he's pushing. Sure if that cameo was never put in, I can see where the floor would be open for intense debate when it came to Sakura's facial expression, but because Kishi re-emphasized another pairing in the same chapter, it's kind of difficult to make the same argument.
> 
> That Hinata moment was a waste of space in the chapter. It was very obviously added to remind us that Hinata still loves Naruto. And it was added only pages after we are reminded that Sakura still feels for Sasuke. People who didn't pick up on how that was planned out should re-read the chapter.



It's called fanservice, like those panels of Sasuke's naked chest (though those are one millions times more worthy than that pairing garbage in my book). That's completelly worseless plot wise but it's meant to please a part of the fandom.
That doesn't mean it is hinting anything. Just Kishi bringing more pairing drama to keep the pairing tards reading his shit.


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## WraithX959 (May 27, 2011)

I see some people don't understand the english language, nor do they have reading comprehension skills.

First off,



			
				 Merriam-Webster said:
			
		

> *Confide* - : to have confidence : trust
> 2: to show confidence by imparting secrets <confide in a friend>
> transitive verb
> 1: to tell confidentially
> 2: to give to the care or protection of another : entrust



As I already stated, Sakura was the first person Sasuke told about his motivations for wanting to kill his brother, although he didn't go into detail.

Itachi can use seals?
Itachi can use seals?

As for Naruto, Hinata was the first person he let his guard down in front of. He wasn't afraid to admit that he wasn't really as strong as he pretended to be.

Itachi can use seals?

Neither Sasuke nor Naruto intended to open up about themselves as much as they did. 

As for my comments about their personalities, you shouldn't take my words so literally. I wasn't stating that their personalities were exactly the same, only specific things about their personalities. I was trying to explain it in the simplest terms, however since that didn't work let's try this. Sakura and Hinata are the Anima representations of Naruto and Sasuke and vice-versa for the girls(except in their case we're taking about the animus).



This whole manga is built around Jungian Psychology and Archetypes. Not my problem if you can't see past the persona of the characters of the story.


----------



## Lovely (May 27, 2011)

PikaCheeka said:


> People can analyze Sakura's facial expression all you want but the fact that Kishi gave Hinata an "I love Naruto!" cameo that was completely irrelevant and even awkward in the very chapter that Sakura thought about Sasuke should have been a big give-away as to what he's pushing. Sure if that cameo was never put in, I can see where the floor would be open for intense debate when it came to Sakura's facial expression, but because Kishi re-emphasized another pairing in the same chapter, it's kind of difficult to make the same argument.
> 
> That Hinata moment was a waste of space in the chapter. It was very obviously added to remind us that Hinata still loves Naruto. And it was added only pages after we are reminded that Sakura still feels for Sasuke. People who didn't pick up on how that was planned out should re-read the chapter.



I definitely caught on to this. While I'm not going to make any assumptions, the deliberate comparison was obvious. 

I also think that the clear contrasts in attitude/facial expressions were meant to highlight how opposite Sasuke and Naruto are as characters. Ever since the Kage Arc (and perhaps before that) Kishi's been giving us this whole yin/yang thing of lightness and darkness when it came to Naruto and Sasuke. Hinata remembering a happy and smiling Naruto while Sakura thinks back to an angry/dark Sasuke is for more than just pairing reasons, imo.


----------



## izzyisozaki (May 27, 2011)

WraithX959 said:


> So, in a way NarutoXSasuke is the true pairing, Kishimoto just created Sakura and Hinata as stand-ins for the two male protagonist.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (May 27, 2011)

WraithX959 said:


> I see some people don't understand the english language, nor do they have reading comprehension skills.



"Some people" being you. Sasuke didn't confide in Sakura, he went on a monologue and she heard it. He was specifically addressing her, which is an essential part of confiding in someone.

The definition only proves that you used the term incorrectly.



> First off,
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Wrong. 

"My goals are to restore the Uchiha and...to kill a certain man."

Also, he was monologuing as I will state once again.



> As for Naruto, Hinata was the first person he let his guard down in front of. He wasn't afraid to admit that he wasn't really as strong as he pretended to be.
> 
> Itachi can use seals?
> 
> Neither Sasuke nor Naruto intended to open up about themselves as much as they did.



Sasuke didn't open himself up to Sakura, he had a moment of introspect. I'll give the one with Naruto before his fight with Neji



> As for my comments about their personalities, you shouldn't take my words so literally. I wasn't stating that their personalities were exactly the same, only specific things about their personalities. I was trying to explain it in the simplest terms, however since that didn't work let's try this. Sakura and Hinata are the Anima representations of Naruto and Sasuke and vice-versa for the girls(except in their case we're taking about the animus).



That's like, a really bad argument...It's especially so because a NaruSaku fan can just prance in here and turn it all around on you. The concept is open enough that a NaruSasu fan could turn it around on you, and any other pairing fan could come in and use it to their leisure. I hope one does just so you see what I'm getting at. It's really astounding how you chide others about their lack of perception, when you have a startling lack of it yourself.

I think this only emphasizes my point that when a person tries to sideship something, it weakens their case, because they try to defend two unequal matters rather than just defending the pair they actually prefer.



> This whole manga is built around Jungian Psychology and Archetypes. Not my problem if you can't see past the persona of the characters of the story.



ANOTHER "psychologist" whom has a loose grasp on the subject. Great. You've impressed me though, these arguments are really terrible!


----------



## WraithX959 (May 27, 2011)

Seto Kaiba said:


> He was gonna break out regardless as he was already on the verge of mentally breaking, but she did serve as that final straw that broke the camel's back.



I never said this wasn't the case, however the fact that Kishimoto specifically used Hinata as his final breaking is clearly significant to the development of both characters and their relationship. 






Seto Kaiba said:


> That applies to all their infatuations you know. They all fell for the idealized version of their affections, and how things went from there are drastically different.



Again, never said it didn't apply to all their relationships, however I will say that Hinata was clearly able to learn far more about Naruto from stalking him than anyone else he knew. Hinata has always understood Naruto from the very beginning.




Seto Kaiba said:


> He knew she wasn't demure. She had been berating him since they were children.



Please, is that why he always referred to her as "cute" even when it was obvious she really wasn't. He said himsef that Haku was cuter. Not to mention that Kishimoto defined Part 1 Sakura with her "Inner" and "Outer" Sakura personatilies. Inner Sakura was clearly a representation of Sakura's Animus, the part of herself she tried to hide with her "Outer Sakura" persona. That's why we always see Inner Sakura responding positively to Naruto's pranks and Konohamaru's perverted yaoi ninjutsu. Sakura will continue to have problems until she fully intergrates that part of her personality. Same with Sasuke, he won't be redeemed until he can come to turns with himself and his own feelings.  





Seto Kaiba said:


> She isn't. Kushina is. Sakura may have some similarities with Naruto, but they have very different personalities. Then and especially now.
> 
> What a lousy argument, that's not even one at all and it all goes back to how it just opens the door for NaruSaku fans to bring in their own barrel of reasons, parallels, and interpretations. That was pure guesswork, with no really no backing in the story.



Both Kushina and Sakura(Inner Sakura more specifically) are meant to be Anima representations for Naruto. That's why Kishimoto had Kushina tell Naruto to "find a girl just like your mother". Which indeed could be used for NaruSaku pairing fuel, but only by someone who has no idea of what they're talking about. Anyone who knows about the anima and animus knows that you never date your own anima or animus.






Seto Kaiba said:


> WTF. This isn't true either! Sasuke wasn't shy, he was anti-social. There's a world of difference between the two. When he wanted to say something he said it and was blunt about it. He doesn't hide his true feelings, he lacks the tact to do so, he's always been upfront about how he feels about people because to him, it's what he thinks that matter.



Yet again, when did I ever use the word "shy"? There is a big difference between "shy" and "insecure". Sasuke's issues stem from the abrupt loss of his family. He doesn't let people get close to him because he's afraid he'll lose them just like he lost his family. This causes him to lash out at those trying to get close to him so that he can push them away. In other words, in Sasuke's mind, no bonds/relationships = not getting hurt. Pretty much just as Gaara was prior to being redeem by Naruto. Very fitting since it was Gaara that was the one to that set Sasuke back onto the dark path of vengence, just as Naruto had saved Gaara from that very same path.


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## Supa Swag (May 27, 2011)

so there are people still looking too deeply into this battle oriented moneymaking pre-teen aimed shonen manga huh


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## Seto Kaiba (May 27, 2011)

WraithX959 said:


> I never said this wasn't the case, however the fact that Kishimoto specifically used Hinata as his final breaking is clearly significant to the development of both characters and their relationship.



Perhaps. Or it could just be more relevant to the character of Hinata herself.



> Again, never said it didn't apply to all their relationships, however I will say that Hinata was clearly able to learn far more about Naruto from stalking him than anyone else he knew. Hinata has always understood Naruto from the very beginning.



She understood Naruto from the aspect of an underdog, but not the entire package that is Naruto. That is, his loneliness and the resentment he felt towards the villagers early in his life among other things. She was one of many that could relate to a particular aspect of his life, but not the most important part, which Sasuke could relate with Naruto to.



> Please, is that why he always referred to her as "cute" even when it was obvious she really wasn't. He said himsef that Haku was cuter.



Pick up a dictionary. Cute and demure are not synonymous with one another.



> Not to mention that Kishimoto defined Part 1 Sakura with her "Inner" and "Outer" Sakura personatilies. Inner Sakura was clearly a representation of Sakura's Animus, the part of herself she tried to hide with her "Outer Sakura" persona. That's why we always see Inner Sakura responding positively to Naruto's pranks and Konohamaru's perverted yaoi ninjutsu. Sakura will continue to have problems until she fully intergrates that part of her personality.



Obvious, but nothing that indicates your claims of your preferred pairings happening.



> Same with Sasuke, he won't be redeemed until he can come to turns with himself and his own feelings.


 
And Naruto too has his own path to complete, but none of this lends credence to a pairing(s) happening.



> Both Kushina and Sakura(Inner Sakura more specifically) are meant to be Anima representations for Naruto. That's why Kishimoto had Kushina tell Naruto to "find a girl just like your mother". Which indeed could be used for NaruSaku pairing fuel, but only by someone who has no idea of what they're talking about.



This emphasizes a previous point I stated to kyuubi. 

The arguments he used and the one you are using is and would be just as valid as yours in the hands of a NaruSasu or NaruSaku fan, that is to say, not at all...the only reason you discount the claims NaruSaku fans make is because it is used for a viewpoint that you don't support or want to come to pass. The truth of the matter is they aren't any more valid as yours, but again, I have to state the arguments you're making are especially terrible.



> Anyone who knows about the anima and animus knows that you never date your own anima or animus.



This is utterly idiotic. You're just misusing psyschological terms just to fit your ideals of what pairing you want. Most of your arguments have been painful examples of your loose grasp on the meanings and definitions of terms, and this one is no different. 



> Yet again, when did I ever use the word "shy"? There is a big difference between "shy" and "insecure". Sasuke's issues stem from the abrupt loss of his family. He doesn't let people get close to him because he's afraid he'll lose them just like he lost his family. This causes him to lash out at those trying to get close to him so that he can push them away. In other words, in Sasuke's mind, no bonds/relationships = not getting hurt.



Regardless, he is able to acknowledge and value what the bonds mean to him. At least he was. Like I stated, he didn't hide how he felt about others either way. 



> Pretty much just as Gaara was prior to being redeem by Naruto. Very fitting since it was Gaara that was the one to that set Sasuke back onto the dark path of vengence, just as Naruto had saved Gaara from that very same path.



No. It was a combination of his own weakness, Itachi's psychological torture, and Naruto's rapid improvement that set him off, and then ultimately his beatdown by the Sound 4. This was obvious. Painfully so, and the fact that you overlooked it doesn't help you in the credibility department. Ultimately, the responsibility is on Sasuke himself though.


----------



## WraithX959 (May 27, 2011)

Seto Kaiba said:


> "Some people" being you. Sasuke didn't confide in Sakura, he went on a monologue and she heard it. He was specifically addressing her, which is an essential part of confiding in someone.
> 
> The definition only proves that you used the term incorrectly.
> 
> ...



How did I use the word confide wrong? I will admit that I didn't phrase what I meant clearly, but it's made quite clear in the link that Sasuke was confiding in Sakura his motivation for wanting to get stronger. I never said he hadn't mentioned wanting to kill his brother before. Also, the only time during that conversation that Sasuke wasn't talking to Sakura was when he mentioned "that time... crying" He was even going to tell her it was his brother, before he stopped himself. Sasuke was clearly talking to Sakura because he glared at her prior to speaking. 






Seto Kaiba said:


> That's like, a really bad argument...It's especially so because a NaruSaku fan can just prance in here and turn it all around on you. The concept is open enough that a NaruSasu fan could turn it around on you, and any other pairing fan could come in and use it to their leisure. I hope one does just so you see what I'm getting at. It's really astounding how you chide others about their lack of perception, when you have a startling lack of it yourself.
> 
> I think this only emphasizes my point that when a person tries to sideship something, it weakens their case, because they try to defend two unequal matters rather than just defending the pair they actually prefer.
> 
> ...



Whatever man, I'm not going to continue to argue with you when you clearly have a bias towards those specific pairings to begin with. Good luck with that, I'm sure sure it'll all work out for you.


----------



## izzyisozaki (May 27, 2011)

WraithX959 said:


> How did I use the word confide wrong? I will admit that I didn't phrase what I meant clearly, but it's made quite clear in the link that Sasuke was confiding in Sakura his motivation for wanting to get stronger. I never said he hadn't mentioned wanting to kill his brother before. Also, the only time during that conversation that Sasuke wasn't talking to Sakura was when he mentioned "that time... crying" He was even going to tell her it was his brother, before he stopped himself. Sasuke was clearly talking to Sakura because he glared at her prior to speaking.



cos her words irritated him. Lecturing is not 'confiding'.


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## Seto Kaiba (May 27, 2011)

WraithX959 said:


> How did I use the word confide wrong?



If I didn't already explain it, in order to confide in someone, you have to have confidence in them and actually address them with the issue at hand. Neither was the case between Sasuke and Sakura. 

Naruto DID confide in Hinata during the Chunin Exams, and that alone is the only valid example you provided of the meaning. 



> I will admit that I didn't phrase what I meant clearly, but it's made quite clear in the link that Sasuke was confiding in Sakura his motivation for wanting to get stronger.



Monologuing. 



> I never said he hadn't mentioned wanting to kill his brother before. Also, the only time during that conversation that Sasuke wasn't talking to Sakura was when he mentioned "that time... crying" He was even going to tell her it was his brother, before he stopped himself. Sasuke was clearly talking to Sakura because he glared at her prior to speaking.



He was talking to himself. Spaced out, that was more than obvious. Jesus Christ dude, actually read the page. He didn't glare at her because he wanted to share something with her, prior to Itachi's death, he looked to everything as a test of his might and ability to achieve his revenge. He was lost in his own thought.



> Whatever man, I'm not going to continue to argue with you when you clearly have a bias towards those specific pairings to begin with. Good luck with that, I'm sure sure it'll all work out for you.



You're gonna make me laugh.


----------



## Mr Horrible (May 27, 2011)

WraithX959 said:


> Whatever man, I'm not going to continue to argue with you when you clearly have a bias towards those specific pairings to begin with. Good luck with that, I'm sure sure it'll all work out for you.



I have to admit, I lol'ed


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## sumany (May 27, 2011)

ns died for me in this chapter. sakura still loves sasuke even after the murder attempts.this proved that her confession to naruto was fake.she won't change her feelings. it doesn't matter though. sasuke doesn't give a shit.


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## yukiko♥ (May 27, 2011)

Stop treating Suckura like an innocent lamb! SHE tried to kill Sasuke first. It's not like Sasuke wanted to kill her for no reason. She made him angry and he defended himself.

Bitch deserved it.


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## primary colours123 (May 27, 2011)

Hey everyone,
So... are we still here? lol
This is a never ending loop that the mangaka keeps exploiting, and even if anyone conclusively proves that one pairing is or isn't going to happen based on the manga panels, it is stil based on the whims of the mangaka.

Though we got so many new pairs to choose from this week, from 
*Saku-Zetsu* pek, 
*Shino-Hina * , 
*Kiba-Neji *(yes Neji is pretty and moody enough to make this pair het) to 
*A-Tsunade-B* , 
and even yaoi specials of 
*Ita-Naga*  and even the "pee nins", and you guys are still stuck on the same old ones.

Not EVERYTHING old is gold. :rofl

Take care.


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## ajinko (May 27, 2011)

I think naruto moved on mate. i don't think he  is going to pursue sakura romantically. to my narusaku fans this manga aint that romantically deep. so u don't have to look  underneath the underneath. take it at face value.


----------



## The Scientist (May 27, 2011)

I am more interested in raikage x tsunade


----------



## Emily (May 27, 2011)

After 19 pages of blah blah blah you're wasting your time because Kishi's gonna troll again soon enough:



Mizura said:


> I may be a NaruSaku fan but, even I can tell that the only part actually getting developed is Naruto chasing Sasuke's skirt. If I want to read about male-female relationships, I'm obviously not getting it from This manga.



This.



Saturnine said:


> Does nobody think that seeing him kiss a woman, no matter which one, would feel at least a bit awkward?



And also, I agree. The only ones Sasuke looked like he was about to kiss was Itachi and Naruto.


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## Arles Celes (May 27, 2011)

How about we start talking about some CONFIRMED canon pairings?
 Like Bee-Tsunade or Itachi-Nagato...


----------



## Fourangers (May 27, 2011)

The Scientist said:


> I am more interested in raikage x tsunade



Yeah! I agree!  Someone has to start an FC and write fanfics. I NEED FANFICS DAMMIT. I tried to search in ff.net but it was completely null. 

I liked the way that Raikage was a gentleman to Tsunade, it was so cute. 

*new OTP; Atsu*


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## DiScO (May 27, 2011)

Sakura loves Sasuke .Sasuke doesn`t lover her back .Naruto loves Sakura .Sakura doesn`t lover her back .Hinata loves Naruto .Naruto doesn`t love her back.


































Did anything chane ?
*Nope*.


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## Saunion (May 27, 2011)

I understand people try to sound smart when discussing Nardo pairings, but please leave Carl Jung out of this, the guy is currently spinning in his grave so fast his casket caught on fire.


----------



## Turrin (May 27, 2011)

NarutoIzDaMan said:


> Well, ever since part 2 began Naruto has been an UGLY story and Kishi seems to want to keep it that way till the end. It has been a little over 11 years since the manga began and Naruto STILL has yet to achieve most of his goals and desires. The one thing he has managed to accomplish so far is gain the acknowledgment of everyone in his village (he's worshiped as a hero) after the Pain Arc.
> 
> He still however has yet to accomplish his other goals - 1) Saving Sasuke from the "darkness" 2) Finding a solution to world peace 3) becoming Hokage 4) last and probably least, earning Sakura's love. Ultimately the whole point of the story is that nothing is supposed to come easy for Naruto (and yes this includes love) and Kishi has made that point very clear by consistently throwing nasty curve balls every which way at Naruto.
> 
> In Kishi's warped and twisted mind he probably thinks that his deliberate "trolling/bad writing" makes things more "interesting" all the way to end. That's why I still believe (despite all the ugliness) that in the end Naruto will get everything he has ever wanted or desired since the very beginning (Sakura's love included, someway somehow). Naruto may not be a pretty story but that's the way Kishi intended it to be so take that with what you will.


I totally agree man it would be a betrayal of Kishi writing style thus far if anything else happens



gabzilla said:


> So Naruto only follows cliches when it's convenient for you?
> 
> Either Kishimoto is following the cliched main guy x main girl or he's not. You can't have it both ways.



Not sure what your talking about here


----------



## Arles Celes (May 27, 2011)

Turrin said:


> I totally agree man it would be a betrayal of Kishi writing style thus far if anything else happens
> 
> 
> 
> Not sure what your talking about here



What if Naruto is unable to save Sasuke and bring him back alive to Konoha?

Sasuke's life is in a SERIOUS danger right now as even if Naruto brainwashes the whole world into forgiving Sasuke(very difficult), TnJ Sasuke himself into becoming a good guy(even harder), AND protect him from a "redemption equals death" situation(veeery hard) there is still the how Sasuke would be able to live when he feels that his life has no more meaning and he is overcome with grief?.

It wouldn't surprise me if Sasuke killed himself to join his family in death thus making Naruto's attempts to save him pointless.

I realize that Naruto's fans want him to look like the ultimate kickass hero who succeds at everything BUT Kishi made it quite a rule of his that even the most splendid shinobi have their share of BIG failures.

Even putting the end to all hatred in the world might require a huge price from Naruto. Kishi seems to believe that failures do not necessarily make a character look all that bad as I hardly think that he considers Jiraiya a failure despite Jiraiya's own admission to have a life full of failures.

Instead of making Madara a villain sue like Aizen was, Kishi took a "lots of failures route" with Madara and he doesn't seem to believe that it makes him look like a less of a that because of that either.


----------



## Hokage Sennin (May 27, 2011)

Arles Celes said:


> What if Naruto is unable to save Sasuke and bring him back alive to Konoha?
> 
> Sasuke's life is in a SERIOUS danger right now as even if Naruto brainwashes the whole world into forgiving Sasuke(very difficult), TnJ Sasuke himself into becoming a good guy(even harder), AND protect him from a "redemption equals death" situation(veeery hard) there is still the how Sasuke would be able to live when he feels that his life has no more meaning and he is overcome with grief?.
> 
> It wouldn't surprise me if Sasuke killed himself to join his family in death thus making Naruto's attempts to save him pointless.



QFT

Either way there is 90%+ chance of Sasuke dying, whether he's reconciled or not. Surely he doesn't want to live long and completely shunned like Naruto was when he's a kid. In the off chance that he'll emerge alive from this debacle, he'll just cut off his connections to all and live like a hermit.


----------



## Saunion (May 27, 2011)

Arles Celes said:


> What if Naruto is unable to save Sasuke and bring him back alive to Konoha?
> 
> Sasuke's life is in a SERIOUS danger right now as even if Naruto brainwashes the whole world into forgiving Sasuke(very difficult), TnJ Sasuke himself into becoming a good guy(even harder), AND protect him from a "redemption equals death" situation(veeery hard) there is still the how Sasuke would be able to live when he feels that his life has no more meaning and he is overcome with grief?.
> 
> ...



There's people who still think everything won't be peachy at the end? Naruto will redeem Sasuke and no one will care about Sasuke's past.


----------



## Arles Celes (May 27, 2011)

Saunion said:


> There's people who still think everything won't be peachy at the end? Naruto will redeem Sasuke and no one will care about Sasuke's past.



The world forgiving Sasuke is actually the easiest thing IMO...

The thing is that Sasuke's character reeks of tragedy and drama which makes it hard for me to believe how such an angsty character could live a happy life in Konoha after all the baddies are dead.

It wouldn't be an exaggeration that part 2 has became much darker and angsty precisely because it was more focused on Sasuke than part 1 IMO.


----------



## Hitt (May 27, 2011)

Saunion said:


> There's people who still think everything won't be peachy at the end? Naruto will redeem Sasuke and no one will care about Sasuke's past.



Certainly possible given the miracles that have happened so far.  (Pain arc...)

However, more realistically, Sasuke will simply go into exile, his only reprieve is that he won't be hunted as a missing nin by Konoha.

He'll be a hermit of sorts, just like Jiraiya was.  His chances of actually romantically getting involved with _anyone_?  Very close to zero.


----------



## Gilgamesh (May 27, 2011)

People expecting Hinata to magically become important, getting proved wrong everytime, and always coming back for more is nothing short of hysterical to me


----------



## Arles Celes (May 27, 2011)

Hitt said:


> Certainly possible given the miracles that have happened so far.  (Pain arc...)
> 
> However, more realistically, Sasuke will simply go into exile, his only reprieve is that he won't be hunted as a missing nin by Konoha.
> 
> He'll be a hermit of sorts, just like Jiraiya was.  His chances of actually romantically getting involved with _anyone_?  Very close to zero.



I have a hard time believing that Naruto would allow Sasuke to leave the village so that he may become a hermit and suffer the weight of his sins in loneliness.

He would sooner leave the village himself to support his best friend until Sasuke could come to terms with his grief and guilt. 

That said the "Sasuke dies" scenario seems much more likely to me IMO.


----------



## Hitt (May 27, 2011)

Arles Celes said:


> I have a hard time believing that Naruto would allow Sasuke to leave the village so that he may become a hermit and suffer the weight of his sins in loneliness.



Not before he's redeemed.  If Naruto can somehow make Sasuke realize that it's not _really_ his fault, he was manipulated, etc, etc, then it's possible, at least, that Sasuke will come to some kind of catharsis.  He has caused a great deal of anguish to Konoha, and nothing will take that away, but somehow Naruto can TnJ it to the point that Sasuke can live with it.  Remember this is Naruto here, and in the end we all know he'll win.


----------



## ajinko (May 27, 2011)

he has casued a great deal of anguish to konoha? he hasn't done anything yet except for killing danzo.


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## Arles Celes (May 27, 2011)

Hitt said:


> Not before he's redeemed.  If Naruto can somehow make Sasuke realize that it's not _really_ his fault, he was manipulated, etc, etc, then it's possible, at least, that Sasuke will come to some kind of catharsis.  He has caused a great deal of anguish to Konoha, and nothing will take that away, but somehow Naruto can TnJ it to the point that Sasuke can live with it.  Remember this is Naruto here, and in the end we all know he'll win.



But Sasuke will probably redeem himself by helping Naruto defeat Madara.

Playing a big part in saving the world from Madara would certainly make everyone reconsider his past misdeeds.

I do not doubt that Naruto can save Sasuke from hatred.

But grief over the loss of his family(which I believe he never truly face by hiding from it with hatred) and his absolute lack of dreams and ambitions are a WAY bigger problem IMO.

Naruto loves the whole village and that is his reason to live while being true to his nindo and protecting his friends.

Sakura might dream of becoming the greatest medic nin and protecting her family and friends.

Sasuke wishes for...what?

Take his hatred away and he has no more goals that would motivate him to keep living.


----------



## mayumi (May 27, 2011)

Arles Celes said:


> What if Naruto is unable to save Sasuke and bring him back alive to Konoha?
> 
> Sasuke's life is in a SERIOUS danger right now as even if Naruto brainwashes the whole world into forgiving Sasuke(very difficult), TnJ Sasuke himself into becoming a good guy(even harder), AND protect him from a "redemption equals death" situation(veeery hard) there is still the how Sasuke would be able to live when he feels that his life has no more meaning and he is overcome with grief?.
> 
> ...



LOL yeah! sasuke will commit suicide. thats a good message to pass down to children.


----------



## phoenixblood (May 27, 2011)

Turrin said:


> Here's my argument about the pairings.
> 
> 1. Just how many Manga's or Anime's have you guys read where the Main Hero (Naruto) does not end up or is at least hinted at ending up with the Main Heroin (Sakura)? I'll give some examples, but don't read if you don't want to be spoiled:
> 
> ...



Off the top of my head...

*Spoiler*: _Other Anime Spoilers_ 



What about Gantz?  Actually pretty similar set up, too.

"Main guy" Kei who's a bit of a perv, and even though not what you'd consider a conventional fighter, he's a survivor and figures out how to be bad ass anyway.  Likes the main chick.

"Other guy" (forget his name) is a childhood friend, but he's better conventional fighter.  Is completely focused on family (taking care of/protecting his little brother).

"Main chick" also named Kei (whoa, similarity between main guy and main chick!!!) has low self-esteem and likes the other guy even though he's oblivious to her feelings so doesn't return them but she sticks with it despite the main guy hitting on her.  Even though not really a fighter, she's got guts when she throws herself in front of the guy she likes and sacrifices herself to save him, and they die in each others arms.

Basically Kei (male) and Kei (female) spend more time together, but when Kei (female) and the other guy die, her feelings are still for him, and when he realizes them at the end, he seems to feel something back.  Kei (male) moves on and from what I heard of the manga hooks up with a flat chested chick eventually (which is ironic since he's obsessed with big boobs, which female Kei has in spades).  Oh, and at one point he bangs another chick, which Kei (female) walks in on, so could spark jealousy and change of heart...but doesn't.

Basically switch the boob size of the main chick and who the main guy ends up with and it's pretty similar. 

This is a very lazy retelling and it's been years since I watched it, so give or take on the summary. 




What am I doing back here? XD


----------



## x_danny_x (May 27, 2011)

sigh the same info again.  im telling you boys and girls to wait another 100 or so chapters or wait after Sasuke is defeated by Naruto to get more data on the pairings since nothing has been added.

Sakura still gets depressed because of loving/thinking about Sasuke and that he is dark.


----------



## Turrin (May 27, 2011)

Arles Celes said:


> What if Naruto is unable to save Sasuke and bring him back alive to Konoha?


If this was a Senien manga I'd agree with you, but dude this is a Shounnen action manga therefore Naruto will save Sasuke, its as simple as that. 



phoenixblood said:


> Off the top of my head...
> 
> *Spoiler*: _Other Anime Spoilers_
> 
> ...


Let me preface what I am about to say by saying that I have never read Gantz. However from what I know about the series its pretty deep physiological/action oriented Seinein manga intended for a much different audience than Naruto. So it doesn't really surprise me if there are some deeper meaning behind the romance in that manga that causes it not to be cliche, unlike in the case of Naruto which is a straight foward Shounnen action series intended for a less mature audience.


*Spoiler*: __ 



Also if the chick your talking about dies and the manga is still on going, I wonder if you can really accurately call her the Main Heroin of the story. Sounds more like the flat chested girl is actually the Main Heroin. Kind of like in Final Fantasy 7 where at the beginning of the story it seems like Ares is the Main Heroin, she gets killed, and than by the end of the story Tiffa emerges as the main heroin.


----------



## phoenixblood (May 27, 2011)

Turrin said:


> If this was a Senien manga I'd agree with you, but dude this is a Shounnen action manga therefore Naruto will save Sasuke, its as simple as that.
> 
> 
> Let me preface what I am about to say by saying that I have never read Gantz. However from what I know about the series its pretty deep physiological/action oriented Seinein manga intended for a much different audience than Naruto. So it doesn't really surprise me if there are some deeper meaning behind the romance in that manga that causes it not to be cliche, unlike in the case of Naruto which is a straight foward Shounnen action series intended for a less mature audience.
> ...



Eh, didn't think too hard on this.  Like I said, just off the top of my head.  Never read the Gantz manga either, just watched the anime.  The plot may be psychological, but the romance was pretty basic and straightforward.  Hormone-driven in the case of the protagonist, lol.

I'm guessing by the adult-ness of the romance and the graphic violence that it would be categorized as seinen and not shounen, but I'd say in terms of how the romance plays is more similar to Naruto than your typical shounen series where there's an obvious main pair set up from the beginning, and often any minor characters who may be interested in one of the main two are also paired off neatly (or in the case of harem, it has an open ending for the leftovers).  In the Naruto series, we really have a main character (Naruto), and then two major supporting characters (Sasuke and Sakura).  Sakura is just given the main girl heading because she's the only girl in the main trio (which I followed suit in my gantz summary since you used the convention of "main guy, main girl", but really it's also a trio with a male lead).  In reality, I wouldn't really call Sakura a "main female" in the typical characterization of the role.


*Spoiler*: _And just thought of another series, Otogizoushi._ 



  This series even does have a main girl (Hikaru) and main guy (Tsuna), and there is implied some possible feelings from the Tsuna->Hikaru, but both of them end up developing romance with other characters (Mansairaku and fortune teller chick, I'm terrible at remembering names, lol) and the main two end up acting more like protective big brother/little sister.


----------



## Off the Wall (May 27, 2011)

I feel that the anime pushes Naruhina more than Kishi does, in the manga, which is canon, it could really go either way wether it's Sasusaku and naruhina, or Narusaku (and in my opinion if narusaku happens then kibahina happens). 

But then if narusaku happens, there always the question of what happens to Sasuke. I personally think no one will end up with Sasuke, just because I don't think there is any turning back from his life of revenge unless he dies. Thats why *in my opinion* Narusaku will happen, but my opinion doesn't mean anything, Kishi will do what he wants.

It really all comes down to Kishi's decision with Sasuke's revenge and/or Sakura's feelings. Sakura's feelings are key because it has been stated by Sai that Naruto loves Sakura, and then also stated by Hinata herself that she loves Naruto. In the end it seems no one likes eachother the same way. In order for something in love to happen in the story, someone has to change who they are in love with.

It's really complicated to see where Kishi is going with pairings


----------



## AMtrack (May 27, 2011)

Darth Sidious said:


> People expecting Hinata to magically become important, getting proved wrong everytime, and always coming back for more is nothing short of hysterical to me



Rofl!  I read this this morning and like died.  The way you put it was just..hilarious.


Anyway Turrin already said it but Gantz is a seinen, not a shounen, so it really doesn't count.  Totally different audiences, and im sure seinen is packed with its own cliches (tho havent read enough of them).  

I will say I am now convinced that Raikage x Tsunade is canon.  And hot.  You dont get more manly than Raikage, and you dont get bigger knockers than Tsunade.  No pairing can compete, they're pretty much the pornstars of Naruto in terms of body form.

I'm pretty convinced Kishi will ass-pull NS, because he's a pretty cliche writer..and he's uncomfortable (sucks) with romance...so he wont do anything too experimental.  Regardless none of the big 3 pairings are good anymore so theres no point in arguing over which is canon.  They suck, who cares at this point.

Oh and no one has ever believed me, but im 100% sure Naruto doesn't even remember Hinata's confession.  Yes I'm serious.  He remembers her laying on the ground as that last image in his mind, but there's no way he remembered all those words.  Something for fandom to keep in mind.  Naruto conveniently turned Kyuubi so that it would never have to be addressed.  Ever wonder why its NEVER appeared in Naruto's flashback, especially if it was zomg first person to say "i love you", so important, etc? Not because Kishi is waiting for some magic moment hundreds of chapters later, its because Naruto has no fucking recollection of what that girl said.

It literally might as well have never happened, if not for Hinata's development in breaking out of her shyness/helplessness/fangirling.


----------



## Turrin (May 27, 2011)

phoenixblood said:


> Eh, didn't think too hard on this.  Like I said, just off the top of my head.  Never read the Gantz manga either, just watched the anime.  The plot may be psychological, but the romance was pretty basic and straightforward.  Hormone-driven in the case of the protagonist, lol.
> 
> I'm guessing by the adult-ness of the romance and the graphic violence that it would be categorized as seinen and not shounen, but I'd say in terms of how the romance plays is more similar to Naruto than your typical shounen series where there's an obvious main pair set up from the beginning, and often any minor characters who may be interested in one of the main two are also paired off neatly (or in the case of harem, it has an open ending for the leftovers).  In the Naruto series, we really have a main character (Naruto), and then two major supporting characters (Sasuke and Sakura).  Sakura is just given the main girl heading because she's the only girl in the main trio (which I followed suit in my gantz summary since you used the convention of "main guy, main girl", but really it's also a trio with a male lead).  In reality, I wouldn't really call Sakura a "main female" in the typical characterization of the role.
> 
> ...


Honestly from how you have described Gantz and the stuff that I know about it, it does not seem similar to Naruto's romance in the slightest. 


*Spoiler*: __ 



In Gantz the main hero wants the one girl out of what seems to be mostly physical attraction and it seems like after she dies, the main character than falls in love with a girl for less physical reasons. Now the obviously that love story was set up so that it could show the development of the MC as a person, first loving someone for only superficial reasons and than falling in love with someone less "endowed" for more important reasons.

In the case of the Naruto Manga, Naruto has always loved Sakura for reasons beyond the superficial and Kishimoto hasn't really indicated that Naruto's love for Sakura is shallow, therefore there would be really no character development to be had in Naruto ending up with another chick than Sakura, like in the Gantz story line. 




Also I do not think their is any main heroin in Gantz, which automatically invalidates it from being relevant to the point that I was making. 

As for the other one, I don't know anything about it so I can't refute your claim at all and to be honest my argument has never been that their isn't any examples where the main heroin and main hero get together with other people, my argument was simply that on average this is the far more likely conclusion.



Off the Wall said:


> I feel that the anime pushes Naruhina more than Kishi does, in the manga, which is canon, it could really go either way wether it's Sasusaku and naruhina, or Narusaku (and in my opinion if narusaku happens then kibahina happens).


Thats because most of the good animators are in love with Hinata and thus make her several times stronger in the anime than she really is and makes everything go her way lol


----------



## phoenixblood (May 27, 2011)

AMtrack said:


> Anyway Turrin already said it but Gantz is a seinen, not a shounen, so it really doesn't count.  Totally different audiences, and im sure seinen is packed with its own cliches (tho havent read enough of them).



Answered this point above.  Not that interested in debating so leaving at that.



			
				AMtrack said:
			
		

> I will say I am now convinced that Raikage x Tsunade is canon.  And hot.  You dont get more manly than Raikage, and you dont get bigger knockers than Tsunade.  No pairing can compete, they're pretty much the pornstars of Naruto in terms of body form.



LOL, awesome.



			
				AMtrack said:
			
		

> I'm pretty convinced Kishi will ass-pull NS, because he's a pretty cliche writer..and he's uncomfortable (sucks) with romance...so he wont do anything too experimental.  Regardless none of the big 3 pairings are good anymore so theres no point in arguing over which is canon.  They suck, who cares at this point.



Agree that Kishi sucks at romantic development, but I think it'll either be SS/NH, or nothing at all.  At this point and the rate things have been going, I'd say the latter is more likely.



			
				AMtrack said:
			
		

> Oh and no one has ever believed me, but im 100% sure Naruto doesn't even remember Hinata's confession.  Yes I'm serious.  He remembers her laying on the ground as that last image in his mind, but there's no way he remembered all those words.  Something for fandom to keep in mind.  Naruto conveniently turned Kyuubi so that it would never have to be addressed.  Ever wonder why its NEVER appeared in Naruto's flashback, especially if it was zomg first person to say "i love you", so important, etc? Not because Kishi is waiting for some magic moment hundreds of chapters later, its because Naruto has no fucking recollection of what that girl said.
> 
> It literally might as well have never happened, if not for Hinata's development in breaking out of her shyness/helplessness/fangirling.



That would make Naruto not look so bad, but still doesn't take Kishi off the hook for introducing it and then.....doing nothing.  After this long, it's just sad.

*Edit: @ Turrin -* Can you give me some examples of shounen that have a main trio rather than a main pair?


----------



## Arles Celes (May 27, 2011)

AMtrack said:


> Rofl!  I read this this morning and like died.  The way you put it was just..hilarious.
> 
> 
> Anyway Turrin already said it but Gantz is a seinen, not a shounen, so it really doesn't count.  Totally different audiences, and im sure seinen is packed with its own cliches (tho havent read enough of them).
> ...



If Naruto remebers how Pain hurt Hinata and the anger he felt at the moment he probably also remembers what she said to him before getting hurt as he turned bijuu like 10 seconds afterwards so he most certainly remembers.

Link removed

Why wasn't that brough up? Its quite simple actually...it is the very same reason why Sakura's "confession" wasn't brough up either by neither Naruto nor Sakura.

If that happened then Kishi would have to give some rather definite answers to that. Does Naruto blush and smile beaming with happiness when he remembers Hinata confessing his love to him? A strong lead that NaruHina will happen. Does Naruto look apologetic and thinks something like,"I'm sorry Hinata but Sakura chan  is the only one...". A strong lead that NaruSaku is confirmed.

Kishi cannot address that stuff as Naruto considering his feelings either towards Sakura(after her confession) or towards Hinata(and her own confession) would make at least one pairing canon and at least one pairing dead

And Kishi does not have the guts to put the trolling...errr pairing war to rest and who knows...perhaps he never will

Keep the unrequited love going on Kishi, your fans find that TOTALLY hot


----------



## Saunion (May 27, 2011)

There couldn't possibly be a worst comparison you could make with Naruto than Gantz. I mean seriously Gantz? Holy crap. That's a new low.


----------



## son_michael (May 27, 2011)

I was all for Naru Hina back in the chuunin exams, he did nothing with it. I wasn't all for Naru Saku until part 2 came , when he gave the pairing much more development and then I looked back at part 1 and saw that there was even development there and I was sold on the pairing. 

At this point...If kishi doesn't go Naru Saku, then what was all the buildup and hype for? Just to torture us fans into fighting with each other? Does kishi want to see blood?


I'm still leaning towards Naru Saku, its the logical pairing.


----------



## Turrin (May 27, 2011)

phoenixblood said:


> *Edit: @ Turrin -* Can you give me some examples of shounen that have a main trio rather than a main pair?


You have to define "main" for me to do that. I can give examples of Shounen's with a clearly defined main heroin, but there is really very few manga that have more than 1 de facto main character, even in Naruto Sasuke isn't thee main character.


----------



## phoenixblood (May 27, 2011)

Main Lead + 2 Major Supporting is what I meant.  And I'd argue that if you were going to pick a main pair from Naruto, it'd be Naruto and Sasuke, not Naruto and Sakura.  Look at what characters are most often featured in marketing, and how they're featured, and that'll tell you what the level of significance is.  If all three are pictured, Naruto is in front, followed by Sasuke and Sakura, with Kakashi behind them.  If it's a cover/art of just two characters, it's often Naruto and Sasuke.

Taking one of your examples from your original post, Inuyasha (watched a few eps of this), I'm guessing on most covers/art, you'll find Kagome and Inuyahsa.  Arguably, the series is seen from Kagome's perspective, so she could probably be classified as the main character, but Inuyasha is pretty much right up there with her.  Or a Takahashi series I'm more familiar with, Ranma 1/2, Ranma is the main character, but Akane is pretty much up there with him if you're going to pick two.

Either way, I still wouldn't call Sakura the main heroine of the series, unless you're going by default that she's the only female that's closest to a main character status.  But the hierarchy doesn't really match your typical shounen series that you bring up where the main guy x main girl is the obvious standard mold for romance.


----------



## Kage (May 27, 2011)

> So, in a way NarutoXSasuke is the true pairing, Kishimoto just created Sakura and Hinata as stand-ins for the two male protagonist.



i see someone took the reins in jizzes steed.


Saunion said:


> I understand people try to sound smart when discussing Nardo pairings, but please leave Carl Jung out of this, the guy is currently spinning in his grave so fast his casket caught on fire.


----------



## son_michael (May 27, 2011)

phoenixblood said:


> Main Lead + 2 Major Supporting is what I meant.  And I'd argue that if you were going to pick a main pair from Naruto, it'd be Naruto and Sasuke, not Naruto and Sakura.  Look at what characters are most often featured in marketing, and how they're featured, and that'll tell you what the level of significance is.  If all three are pictured, Naruto is in front, followed by Sasuke and Sakura, with Kakashi behind them.  If it's a cover/art of just two characters, it's often Naruto and Sasuke.
> 
> Taking one of your examples from your original post, Inuyasha (watched a few eps of this), I'm guessing on most covers/art, you'll find Kagome and Inuyahsa.  Arguably, the series is seen from Kagome's perspective, so she could probably be classified as the main character, but Inuyasha is pretty much right up there with her.  Or a Takahashi series I'm more familiar with, Ranma 1/2, Ranma is the main character, but Akane is pretty much up there with him if you're going to pick two.
> 
> Either way, I still wouldn't call Sakura the main heroine of the series, unless you're going by default that she's the only female that's closest to a main character status.  But the hierarchy doesn't really match your typical shounen series that you bring up where the main guy x main girl is the obvious standard mold for romance.



The story is about Naruto and Sasuke but Sakura is certainly not a side character, she has arcs, plot significance and fights. She's a main character.


----------



## MossMan (May 27, 2011)

I remember the manga chapter where Naruto asks his mother how she and the 4th fell in love, and was semi-surprised that he would ask her something like that.  I think the fact that he did, shows how important it is to him that he can establish a lasting relationship with someone, as Minato did with his mother.

I would say that Naruto's situation is probably much like Sakura's, in that he still can't let go of his feelings for her, despite knowing that it might be wrong for him to pursue those feelings.  He is beginning to care for Hinata, like Sakura is showing signs of attraction to Naruto.  But unless something changes, these love triangles will remain unresolved.


----------



## Saunion (May 27, 2011)

The Team 7 love triangle and even the characterization of its single members are pretty much inspired by Slam Dunk and Dragon Quest Dai no Daiboken. There's differences of course but also a lot of similarities.


----------



## Arles Celes (May 27, 2011)

son_michael said:


> The story is about Naruto and Sasuke but Sakura is certainly not a side character, she has arcs, plot significance and fights. She's a main character.



Sakura is only main character in that regard that she is the only girl in this manga who interacts with both Naruto and Sasuke.

Other than that she has no plot relavance, no power ups, and she doesn't seem to have any particular dreams or goals either.

Itachi, Nagato, and Jiraiya are WAAAAY more important than her as their actions greatly influenced what Naruto and Sasuke are doing right now and who they are now.

Sakura's only role to play right now is to be a ship tease that will spread her legs for either Naruto or Sasuke at the end of the manga to give birth to "the new generation". Kinda the same role that Chichi and Bulma played in DBZ by giving birth to new haxxed Saiyans.

Sad but true...

Call it wasted potential.


----------



## Skeith (May 27, 2011)

DiScO said:


> Sakura loves Sasuke .Sasuke doesn`t lover her back .Naruto loves Sakura .Sakura doesn`t lover her back .Hinata loves Naruto .Naruto likes her.



fixed.


----------



## Arles Celes (May 27, 2011)

Saunion said:


> The Team 7 love triangle and even the characterization of its single members are pretty much inspired by Slam Dunk and Dragon Quest Dai no Daiboken. There's differences of course but also a lot of similarities.



I've not read Slam Dunk since quite a while so I do not remember well the similarities but...

Regarding Dai no Daiboken there are way to many similarities and if Kishi does pull off a similar ending (pairing wise) I will call it a straight ripp off. 

Why? Well...

Pop-Naruto, Maam-Sakura, Merle-Hinata, Hyunkel-Sasuke...

I wonder if Kishi will have the guts to give Naruto(the character) a harem ending as besides the ripoff problem fans might be pissed for choosing a cheap and sueish solution. And Sasuke would wonder the world followed by Karin?(I recall that a girl with a similar name ended up following Hyunkel during the epilogue). Karin seemed to give up on Sasuke but then again once he becomes sane...

Way too much of a ripoff...

Maybe he should follow the DBZ route but I'm not sure...

Either way Kishi handled his ships in such a way that the pairing wars are almost as bad as the ones that Avatar: The Last Airbender  
 had...


----------



## Mr Horrible (May 27, 2011)

Arles Celes said:


> Sakura is only main character in that regard that she is the only girl in this manga who interacts with both Naruto and Sasuke.
> 
> Other than that she has no plot relavance, no power ups, and she doesn't seem to have any particular dreams or goals either.
> 
> ...



It seems like you disregard Sakura from being a 'proper' main character simply due to her not having some destined battle. I personally dislike the 'fate' aspect that seems to have leaked into Naruto as of late.

Also, most of your problems seem like they'd argue against any malexfemale pairing, as you disregard pairings where the male is significantly more powerful than the female. Or perhaps it's only the really strong guys who are destined to be alone?

Also, I wouldn't count Sakura out of the war just yet, as the two previous chapters have shown, she is (and likely will be) involved and getting some panel time.


----------



## son_michael (May 27, 2011)

Arles Celes said:


> Sakura is only main character in that regard that she is the only girl in this manga who interacts with both Naruto and Sasuke.
> 
> Other than that she has no plot relavance, no power ups, and she doesn't seem to have any particular dreams or goals either.
> 
> ...




Your wrong


She has had character development, power ups, and she has plot relevance. Yes, her plot relevance is based on her relation to Naruto and Sasuke but so is every other characters plot relevance... 

Anyway if you compare her with characters like Neiji, hinata, ect  its easy to see she's a main character.


----------



## Juk3n (May 27, 2011)

Skeith said:


> fixed.



Well I'd say Sakura's bond with Naruto is far stronger than Naruto's is with Hinata.


----------



## Arles Celes (May 27, 2011)

Mr Horrible said:


> It seems like you disregard Sakura from being a 'proper' main character simply due to her not having some destined battle. I personally dislike the 'fate' aspect that seems to have leaked into Naruto as of late.
> 
> Also, most of your problems seem like they'd argue against any malexfemale pairing, as you disregard pairings where the male is significantly more powerful than the female. Or perhaps it's only the really strong guys who are destined to be alone?
> 
> Also, I wouldn't count Sakura out of the war just yet, as the two previous chapters have shown, she is (and likely will be) involved and getting some panel time.



Kishi trolled Sakura quite hard.

Genjutsu potential? LOLOLOL

Potential to rival/surpass Tsunade by becoming a neo sannin? Yeah...right.

Dreams, goals, and aspirations that do not revolve around Naruto and Sasuke? Nope

A destined powerful opponent? Kabuto would curbstomp her and so would Madara and Sasuke...and basically any Edo with a name. Owning nameless Zetsus is hardly impressive considering what Naruto and Sasuke will be doing.

Becoming the best medic ever? I've hardly seen any impressive feat since the Gaara rescue arc...and I doubt Sakura surpassed Tsunade in that regard by then.

Hell... when something important happens and Sakura could finally prove her worth, Kishi prefers to make Shika the one to shine. Even when Naruto was depressed after losing Jiraiya it was damn Shika who cheered him up.

There were so many opportunities to show that Sakura's intelligence does not only come to reading books and what did we got?

I'm not sure Kishi really hates Sakura as many on this forum claim but he certainly wastes her potential as good as he can...


----------



## Skeith (May 27, 2011)

Juk3n said:


> Well I'd say Sakura's bond with Naruto is far stronger than Naruto's is with Hinata.



Not arguing that.

But I am saying that Naruto doesn't hate Hinata or Ignored her.


----------



## Mr Horrible (May 27, 2011)

Skeith said:


> Not arguing that.
> 
> But I am saying that Naruto doesn't hate Hinata or Ignored her.



Well now. 

It's amusing you should bring up 'ignored'...

I'm not entirely sure what your point is meant to be, are they things Naruto was meant to have done to Sakura?


----------



## Darkhope (May 27, 2011)

I was surprised people really thought Sakura was implying Naruto was the "someone else" in the last chapter.
No matter how many times it's confirmed she is still in love with Sasuke.

Thankfully this chapter also confirmed it. They were specifically talking about the one Sakura is in love with, and BOOM, she thinks about Sasuke. *There is no sugar coating it.*

As for the NaruHina, it's not a hint the pairing will happen but it was cute and nice to know Kishi has not forgotten about it. He is simply reminding us it's still there.


----------



## Kage (May 27, 2011)

why in the world do people think that is a stepping stone for romance anyway? 

i know kishimoto's romance is bad but the standards don't have to be as low.


----------



## Saunion (May 27, 2011)

Arles Celes said:


> I've not read Slam Dunk since quite a while so I do not remember well the similarities but...
> 
> Regarding Dai no Daiboken there are way to many similarities and if Kishi does pull off a similar ending (pairing wise) I will call it a straight ripp off.
> 
> ...



Yeah, I always say Kishimoto pretty much ripped DnD when it comes to romance and characterization, except Kishimoto's version sucks of course.

Hell, Maam pretty much is Sakura without the fail. Pink hair, healing powers, superstrength, chinese inspired clothing... The DnD author could probably sue Kishimoto.

It wasn't a harem ending though, it was open ended entirely.


----------



## Skeith (May 27, 2011)

Mr Horrible said:


> Well now.
> 
> It's amusing you should bring up 'ignored'...



It comes up a lot. 



> I'm not entirely sure what your point is meant to be, are they things Naruto was meant to have done to Sakura?



I....don't understand what your asking here.


----------



## Mr Horrible (May 27, 2011)

Skeith said:


> It comes up a lot.
> 
> I....don't understand what your asking here.



I assumed you were referring to some pairing that fits 'hates and ignores', I'm confused now.


----------



## Skeith (May 27, 2011)

Mr Horrible said:


> I assumed you were referring to some pairing that fits 'hates and ignores', I'm confused now.



No....I just saying that Naruto does like Hinata (or people like her), but not hate or ignore her like some people say.


----------



## Turrin (May 27, 2011)

phoenixblood said:


> Main Lead + 2 Major Supporting is what I meant.  And I'd argue that if you were going to pick a main pair from Naruto, it'd be Naruto and Sasuke, not Naruto and Sakura.  Look at what characters are most often featured in marketing, and how they're featured, and that'll tell you what the level of significance is.  If all three are pictured, Naruto is in front, followed by Sasuke and Sakura, with Kakashi behind them.  If it's a cover/art of just two characters, it's often Naruto and Sasuke.
> 
> Taking one of your examples from your original post, Inuyasha (watched a few eps of this), I'm guessing on most covers/art, you'll find Kagome and Inuyahsa.  Arguably, the series is seen from Kagome's perspective, so she could probably be classified as the main character, but Inuyasha is pretty much right up there with her.  Or a Takahashi series I'm more familiar with, Ranma 1/2, Ranma is the main character, but Akane is pretty much up there with him if you're going to pick two.
> 
> Either way, I still wouldn't call Sakura the main heroine of the series, unless you're going by default that she's the only female that's closest to a main character status.  But the hierarchy doesn't really match your typical shounen series that you bring up where the main guy x main girl is the obvious standard mold for romance.


Sakura is w/o a doubt the Main heroin of the series, I believe Kishimoto has even stated such in interviews. But if you just look at the context of the manga Sakura gets way more screen time than any other female character and hell most of the cast in general. She is also most closely tied to the main hero and the hero's main rival (Sasuke). There is little debating who the main heroin is of this story. 

Just because Sasuke is more important does not negate that Sakura is the main heroin.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (May 27, 2011)

Darkhope said:


> I was surprised people really thought Sakura was implying Naruto was the "someone else" in the last chapter.
> No matter how many times it's confirmed she is still in love with Sasuke.
> 
> Thankfully this chapter also confirmed it. They were specifically talking about the one Sakura is in love with, and BOOM, she thinks about Sasuke. *There is no sugar coating it.*
> ...



"Thankfully"? Thankfully she's still in love with the guy who tried to kill her?


----------



## Mr Horrible (May 27, 2011)

Skeith said:


> No....I just saying that Naruto does like Hinata (or people like her), but not hate or ignore her like some people say.



Someone says Naruto hates Hinata ?

But yes, Hinata is certainly his good friend.


----------



## Arles Celes (May 27, 2011)

Saunion said:


> Yeah, I always say Kishimoto pretty much ripped DnD when it comes to romance and characterization, except Kishimoto's version sucks of course.
> 
> Hell, Maam pretty much is Sakura without the fail. Pink hair, healing powers, superstrength, chinese inspired clothing... The DnD author could probably sue Kishimoto.
> 
> It wasn't a harem ending though, it was open ended entirely.



*Tries to imagine a revenge seeking Hyunkel bringing angst to everyone for the entire manga while Pop forsakes his brain and becomes an abused housewife...*

....*pukes*

Well said, similar characters with quite alike personalities...but without nowhere as much fail.

I was sorta kidding regarding the harem ending but since the dude is accompanied by two chicks at the end it kinda looks like if he had a harem ending LOL

I could see Kishi doing it to keep the fandom speculating and doing war for years to come.

I hope that Kishi does not pull off the same stuff with Madara as he did with Vaern as I would go on a rampage...


----------



## Drums (May 27, 2011)

^^Yes, weirdly enough there are people saying that Naruto hates Hinata. It's funny.


----------



## Iovan (May 27, 2011)

What actually was shown...



What some people saw instead...



What actually was shown...



What some people saw instead...



Nothing really has changed for the pairings but it sure is funny watching people try to declare victory any time a development happens.


----------



## Turrin (May 27, 2011)

Another thing I would like to point out besides the fact than on average the Main Hero gets with the Main Herion and the Main Hero wins the love of the person he is crushing on is, in how many manga's/anime's do we see the Main hero ending up with the quite, shy, well "endowed" and introverted type girl instead of the load mouth, tsundre, or energetic type girl? To be perfectly honest Hinata's character archetype almost never ends up with the hero in the end. 

So for NXHinta to happen instead of NXSakura several events have to happen that go against the vast norm of manga/anime:

1. Main Hero doesn't end up with Main Heroin
2. Main Hero despite his efforts does not gain the girl he likes affections 
3. Introverted/Shy Girl beats out the Loud mouth/energetic girl

I wonder if anyone can find more than like say 5 examples where that happens.


----------



## Summers (May 27, 2011)

Iovan said:


> What actually was shown...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I agree but you put it in a strange way. Nothing changed but there was a development?
Nothing Changed so there was No development.


----------



## Gabe (May 27, 2011)

i think people should not be happy until naruto thinks of hinata and sasuke of sakura instead of naruto thinking about sasuke and sasuke about naruto and revenge.


----------



## Iovan (May 27, 2011)

summers said:


> I agree but you put it in a strange way. Nothing changed but there was a development?
> Nothing Changed so there was No development.



There was a development in a way but it wasn't some pairing shattering one. It didn't make anything canon that wasn't already known. I'm mainly talking about how every minor development is grabbed by some shippers and hoisted on high as a banner of triumph.


----------



## Arles Celes (May 27, 2011)

Turrin said:


> Another thing I would like to point out besides the fact than on average the Main Hero gets with the Main Herion and the Main Hero wins the love of the person he is crushing on is, in how many manga's/anime's do we see the Main hero ending up with the quite, shy, well "endowed" and introverted type girl instead of the load mouth, tsundre, or energetic type girl? To be perfectly honest Hinata's character archetype almost never ends up with the hero in the end.
> 
> So for NXHinta to happen instead of NXSakura several events have to happen that go against the vast norm of manga/anime:
> 
> ...



Name me at least 5 shounen mangas where the main heroine is still in love with the guy who tried to kill her like 3 times already.

Or a shounen where after 500 like chapters all relationships seem to be as one sided as they were at the very beginning.

Naruto follows some stereotypes while still embracing some...unconventional ideas.

Unlike most shonen mangas the main character here seems also waaaay more obsessed about the second main character than the tsundere heroine which I hardly recall in any shounen.

Also Naruto has hardly any monologues regarding his feelings towards Sakura in part 2 unlike the maaany moments when he thinks about Sasuke.


----------



## Bellville (May 27, 2011)

Kage said:


> why in the world do people think that is a stepping stone for romance anyway?
> 
> i know kishimoto's romance is bad but the standards don't have to be as low.


It's called "take what I can get" and I will bet $5 somebody _somewhere_ cried tears of joy at seeing SS or NH merely _mentioned_ this chapter.


----------



## Summers (May 27, 2011)

Iovan said:


> There was a development in a way but it wasn't some pairing shattering one. It didn't make anything canon that wasn't already known. I'm mainly talking about how every minor development is grabbed by some shippers and hoisted on high as a banner of triumph.



OK, I see  what your saying now. Honestly I dont see kishi resolving this in any satisfying way. I think he just throws it in there to fill panels. The relationship between Naruto and sasuke gets more development than any other pairing. Strangely and Sadly.


----------



## son_michael (May 27, 2011)

Turrin said:


> Another thing I would like to point out besides the fact than on average the Main Hero gets with the Main Herion and the Main Hero wins the love of the person he is crushing on is, in how many manga's/anime's do we see the Main hero ending up with the quite, shy, well "endowed" and introverted type girl instead of the load mouth, tsundre, or energetic type girl? To be perfectly honest Hinata's character archetype almost never ends up with the hero in the end.
> 
> So for NXHinta to happen instead of NXSakura several events have to happen that go against the vast norm of manga/anime:
> 
> ...



Not to mention there's the whole foreshadowing of Naruto succeeding where jiraya failed in love. It's very specific too, the girl that Jiraiya always loved, turned him down every single time, and Tsunade actually revealed to us that she loved him as well(obviously not a smuch as dan...does this sound familiar? ) but yet jiraiya still failed....Well Naruto wont be failing the same way, count on it.  


Also...Just think what would happen if Sakura ends up with Sasuke. Do you really see her Shanaro! ing sasuke with punches? Hell she wouldn't be able to be herself


----------



## boecker (May 27, 2011)

Naruto x Sasuke
Hinata x Sakura
Itachi x Nagato


----------



## Arles Celes (May 27, 2011)

son_michael said:


> Not to mention there's the whole foreshadowing of Naruto succeeding where jiraya failed in love. It's very specific too, the girl that Jiraiya always loved, turned him down every single time, and Tsunade actually revealed to us that she loved him as well(obviously not a smuch as dan...does this sound familiar? ) but yet jiraiya still failed....Well Naruto wont be failing the same way, count on it.
> 
> 
> Also...Just think what would happen if Sakura ends up with Sasuke. Do you really see her Shanaro! ing sasuke with punches? Hell she wouldn't be able to be herself



Actually I'm pretty sure many here would pay Kishi BIG money to see Sakura "Shannaring" Sasuke with her fists everytime he says/does something stupid(like lets say angsty) once they start a relationship.

Sakura: I wont tolerate any more of your bullsit so be a "good boy" or it is smashy smashy time.

Sasuke: 

Naruto: (Lucky me for not getting involved in this shit)


----------



## son_michael (May 27, 2011)

Arles Celes said:


> Actually I'm pretty sure many here would pay Kishi BIG money to see Sakura "Shannaring" Sasuke with her fists everytime he says/does something stupid(like lets say angsty) once they start a relationship.
> 
> Sakura: I wont tolerate any more of your bullsit so be a "good boy" or it is smashy smashy time.
> 
> ...




Sakura could never hit Sasuke, that treatment is for someone she deems an idiot. Most likely, Sakura would be an obedient and quiet house wife, never snapping at him. Unless they had kids and she yelled at him for not helping out in the responsibilities. Anyway, it would take a long time of being used to each other before she would ever hit him comically. Right now, she's his bitch.


Hell, if Sasuke does survive and ends up with her, I could see Sakura giving up the shinobi life and being very happy just being his bitch wife


----------



## Bellville (May 27, 2011)

Arles Celes said:


> Unlike most shonen mangas the main character here seems also waaaay more obsessed about the second main character than the tsundere heroine which I hardly recall in any shounen.
> 
> Also Naruto has hardly any monologues regarding his feelings towards Sakura in part 2 unlike the maaany moments when he thinks about Sasuke.


The 'tsundere heroine' is not in immediate danger of destroying herself and the world as they know it. She doesn't relate to the hero's new-found goal of world peace and ending the cycle of hatred.


----------



## FoxxyKat (May 27, 2011)

I have nothing to add. This thread makes me .



Iovan said:


> What actually was shown...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Very nicely put.


----------



## Arles Celes (May 27, 2011)

son_michael said:


> Sakura could never hit Sasuke, that treatment is for someone she deems an idiot. Most likely, Sakura would be an obedient and quiet house wife, never snapping at him. Unless they had kids and she yelled at him for not helping out in the responsibilities. Anyway, it would take a long time of being used to each other before she would ever hit him comically. Right now, she's his bitch.
> 
> 
> Hell, if Sasuke does survive and ends up with her, I could see Sakura giving up the shinobi life and being very happy just being his bitch wife



But wouldn't YOU like seeing Sakura hitting him with her fist for being an idiot?

Sasuke might not be the same kind of idiot as Naruto but his behavior in part 2 can hardly be called smart. If he was angsting way to much over something or forgetting to show up on their planned date, or forgetting about her birthday I could see her being rather pissed.

Sasuke is now a tragic hero so such comical situations are hardly fitting for his character...but once he is redeemed and get past his problems I could see such comedy happening.

Hell...Sasuke's introduction started with a kiss shared with Naruto. If that wasn't meant to be comedic I do not know what ever was amusing in this manga.


----------



## Renyou (May 27, 2011)

summers said:


> OK, I see  what your saying now. Honestly I dont see kishi resolving this in any satisfying way. I think he just throws it in there to fill panels. The relationship between Naruto and sasuke gets more development than any other pairing. Strangely and Sadly.



It's not strange at all. Friendship bonds are usually more focused in Shonen mangas (I say 'usually' because there are exceptions). Although I would agree Kishi is overdoing it a little.

And I'd rather he didn't bring up romance in the middle of a freaking war, where it's out of place. His timing is terrible. If you wanna throw a bone to the pairing fandom, do it when nothing is happening. I almost laughed seeing a random fodder conveniently having a crush on Sakura just so her feelings for Sasuke could be brought up again.



StrawHeart said:


> ^^Yes, weirdly enough there are people saying that Naruto hates Hinata. It's funny.



I've never seen anyone say that, and if anyone ever did say it, he/she was most likely trolling.


----------



## son_michael (May 27, 2011)

Arles Celes said:


> But wouldn't YOU like seeing Sakura hitting him with her fist for being an idiot?



Me personally? No...I think that would be weird, many people equate Sakura hitting Naruto to abuse but I always thought it was her own way of showing affection to him. It was the sign that they were close.

It just feels like that's something between her and Naruto, and just doesn't fit Sasuke's character at all...




> Sasuke might not be the same kind of idiot as Naruto but his behavior in part 2 can hardly be called smart. If he was angsting way to much over something or forgetting to show up on their planned date, or forgetting about her birthday I could see her being rather pissed.
> 
> Sasuke is now a tragic hero so such comical situations are hardly fitting for his character...but once he is redeemed and get past his problems I could see such comedy happening.



Whether he's good or bad..Sasuke is Mr serious, in fact, I bet he would be a great father, because he would dedicate himself to it. I see little to no comedy in that love life. 

I think Sakura would have a fun life with Naruto and a rather boring 1 with Sasuke.




> Hell...Sasuke's introduction started with a kiss shared with Naruto. If that wasn't meant to be comedic I do not know what ever was amusing in this manga.



It was meant to create interest in a Naru Sasuke relationship, so that more people would buy this manga.


----------



## Turrin (May 27, 2011)

Arles Celes said:


> Name me at least 5 shounen mangas where the main heroine is still in love with the guy who tried to kill her like 3 times already.


This has more to do with Kishimoto's poor story telling, rather than Kishimoto trying to be unconventional.



> Or a shounen where after 500 like chapters all relationships seem to be as one sided as they were at the very beginning.


I disagree that the relationships are all as one-sides as they were at the very beginning. I'll grant you that Sasuke/Sakura and Hina/Naruto have made very little development, but their has actually been tons of development in the Sakura/Naruto relationship. Lets not forget that Sakura and Naruto's relationship started out this way:



Where Sakura thought Naruto was an annoying pest and now its at this point:



In-fact Kishimoto's own words in the Data-book explain the evolution in their relationship:

DB3, _"In her childhood, Sasuke was the object of her yearning, then loving feelings. Naruto was just the nuisance that would force itself between Sasuke and her, and ruin the day in some fashion. But looking back on the past after a few missions handled together, Sakura suddenly realized. In her painful moments, when she'd abandoned even the will to live, the one who'd protect her and encourage her was Naruto, the supposedly annoying one... What feelings does she harbor towards Naruto?... As of now, Sakura hasn't found the answer."_

So yeah SakuraXNaruto is the only relationship that has become over time significantly less one-sided than how it was at the beginning of the manga. 



> Naruto follows some stereotypes while still embracing some...unconventional ideas.


I don't think Naruto embraces any unconventional ideas. The love triangle between Hero (loser) > Girl > Rival (pretty boy) is a time test stereotype of various different genres of manga/anime. The only difference is the Naruto story is much longer than most other manga/anime, so there is a-lot more strain put on the love triangle than normal.



> Unlike most shonen mangas the main character here seems also waaaay more obsessed about the second main character than the tsundere heroine which I hardly recall in any shounen.
> 
> Also Naruto has hardly any monologues regarding his feelings towards Sakura in part 2 unlike the maaany moments when he thinks about Sasuke.


There are plenty of manga/anime where the hero seems more obsessed with his rival, goals, beating the big bad, than even his love interest, in-fact this is most common in Shounnen manga. The only time romance is the number 1 goal is in romance or comedy manga/anime.



son_michael said:


> Also...Just think what would happen if Sakura ends up with Sasuke. Do you really see her Shanaro! ing sasuke with punches? Hell she wouldn't be able to be herself


This is part of the point I was making in mangas/animes where their is a main hero and main heroin and the heroin is the Tsundre type that abuses the hero its almost assured they will get together and quite honestly I'm surprised anyone debates that at the very least Sakura won't fall in love with Naruto by the end of the manga considering what Kishimoto wrote about her feelings in DB3 (See above).


----------



## izzyisozaki (May 27, 2011)

Databooks aren't Kishi's own words unless specified


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## Turrin (May 27, 2011)

izzyisozaki said:


> Databooks aren't Kishi's own words unless specified


Kishi writes the Data-books and in the section I quoted he is writing about how Sakura's feelings for Naruto have evolved over the course of the story


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## izzyisozaki (May 27, 2011)

No, he collaborates on them. Anything that has Kishi's own words is specified, as it is in interviews.


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## son_michael (May 27, 2011)

Turrin said:


> Kishi writes the Data-books and in the section I quoted he is writing about how Sakura's feelings for Naruto have evolved over the course of the story



even if he writes the databooks, I feel like he contradicts them too much, I don't feel its a credible source.

bets to just stick to the manga, which has more than enough Naru Saku evidence.


----------



## Arles Celes (May 27, 2011)

Turrin said:


> This has more to do with Kishimoto's poor story telling, rather than Kishimoto trying to be unconventional.
> 
> 
> I disagree that the relationships are all as one-sides as they were at the very beginning. I'll grant you that Sasuke/Sakura and Hina/Naruto have made very little development, but their has actually been tons of development in the Sakura/Naruto relationship. Lets not forget that Sakura and Naruto's relationship started out this way:
> ...



Actually there were hints even at the very beginning of part 1 that had Sakura showing some "implied" interest in Naruto quite alike the 2nd pic you had shown.

Link removed

Sakura:Whats this feeling? This is Naruto...

Yup...similar teases were over a 500 chapters ago and so are now. 

Nothing new.

Sakura did mature a bith though and is not so selfish as before but that is more due to character development than love development IMO.


Veeery few shonen heroes hardly give any though about the girl they "supposedly" love so much and instead fap to the guy that plans to screw everything and make everyone suffer.

And regarding the databook so we have there that the 3rd databook relationship three says that she still loves Sasuke. The 2nd databook also says that "The one that filled his lonely existence was Sakura".

So as it goes there we have 500 chapters of no change in the romance stuff besides lots of teasing. Good job Kishi


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## NarutoIzDaMan (May 27, 2011)

We all know that Naruto's main purpose in the manga is obviously being the hero/savior while Sasuke is the avenger/villain. As unfortunate as it sounds, I am pretty much now convinced that Sakura's *main* purpose in the manga is to find out about what TRUE love is. Yea, it sucks that she is relegated to such a "silly" role but going by everything we have seen in the manga from her thus far, this is the only conclusion that I can come up with. 

At this point it's anybody's guess as to which direction Kishi will take when it comes to Sakura and her conflicted feelings. She is a very bright girl (book smart) but when it comes to love she has a VERY slow learning curve. It wasn't until the Kage Summit Arc, when Sai revealed Naruto's feelings to her, did she finally start to seriously question and reevaluate her feelings for Sasuke (and Naruto) for probably the first time. Now in this current arc a total stranger has indirectly forced her to once again seriously question her feelings for Sasuke and think about whether this feels RIGHT. 

As we all saw in the latest chapter, the answer to that is clearly a resounding NO. It has taken her a looooong time to slowly but surely realize that her feelings for Sasuke are a negative thing and that her feelings for Naruto are a positive thing. She is still not quite fully there yet at that realization but she is getting there.....


----------



## Arles Celes (May 27, 2011)

NarutoIzDaMan said:


> We all know that Naruto's main purpose in the manga is obviously being the hero/savior while Sasuke is the avenger/villain. As unfortunate as it sounds, I am pretty much now convinced that Sakura's *main* purpose in the manga is to find out about what TRUE love is. Yea, it sucks that she is relegated to such a "silly" role but going by everything we have seen in the manga from her thus far, this is the only conclusion that I can come up with.
> 
> At this point it's anybody's guess as to which direction Kishi will take when it comes to Sakura and her conflicted feelings. She is a very bright girl (book smart) but when it comes to love she has a VERY slow learning curve. It wasn't until the Kage Summit Arc, when Sai revealed Naruto's feelings to her, did she finally start to seriously question and reevaluate her feelings for Sasuke (and Naruto) for probably the first time. Now in this current arc a total stranger has indirectly forced her to once again seriously question her feelings for Sasuke and think about whether this feels RIGHT.
> 
> As we all saw in the latest chapter, the answer to that is clearly a resounding NO. It has taken her a looooong time to slowly but surely realize that her feelings for Sasuke are a negative thing and that her feelings for Naruto are a positive thing. She is still not quite fully there yet at that realization but she is getting there.....



But if Kishi considers the bond Sakura has with Sasuke as something negative then he should also consider the bond Sasuke has with Naruto as something negative too...

Its true that while those bonds DO differ(romance is not love) they still nevertheless are just as obsessive and bring great pain to both Naruto and Sakura.

Perhaps Kishi just has an...errr "unique" way of viewing what is a toxic relationship and what is not?

"Against all odds no matter how bad things do look let us struggle till we succed"?

Lucky Naruto that this is a shounen manga, otherwise he would cry tears of blood at the end in even greater quantities than Sasuke with his MS...


----------



## Kage (May 27, 2011)

there will be no "realization" sakura has no shame. confessions 1 and 2 should be proof enough of this. she's just upset because nothing with sasuke-kun is rainbows and sunshine. she can't smile stupidly next to a apathetic sasuke like she use to without running the risk of getting her throat slit. i tried to give her the benefit of the doubt long ago but then her confession to naruto happened and her brilliant plan to "save" sasuke from his darkness made it clear to me. she is not going to change. ever.


----------



## Afalstein (May 27, 2011)

Actually not much changed this chapter.  I did like it, because it verified that Sakura is still desperately in love with Sasuke against all logic, but outside of that there was no development.

Having said that.



Turrin said:


> Another thing I would like to point out besides the fact than on average the Main Hero gets with the Main Herion and the Main Hero wins the love of the person he is crushing on is, in how many manga's/anime's do we see the Main hero ending up with the quite, shy, well "endowed" and introverted type girl instead of the load mouth, tsundre, or energetic type girl? To be perfectly honest Hinata's character archetype almost never ends up with the hero in the end.
> 
> So for NXHinta to happen instead of NXSakura several events have to happen that go against the vast norm of manga/anime:
> 
> ...



Mixed up some, but here are some indications.

Star Wars:  Other half.  Luke and Leia do NOT end up together (thank goodness) despite Luke's early designs on that.

Cowboy Bebop (and Samaurai Champloo):  Main heroes do not go with main heroines.

Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann.  Simon doesn't end up with the fiery Yoko, he ends up with the shy Nia.  And initially he was aiming for Yoko

Harry Potter: (classic example)  Boy wizard doesn't get central figure Hermoine Granger, he gets side character Ginny Weasely.  Again, the winner here is shy, and again, not the first girl Harry was set on.

Witch Hunter Robin:  Difficult example, as the shy girl IS the main character, but she still gets the guy over her roommate Tojira.

Robotech Macross Saga: Rick Hunter finally gives up on perky pop singer Minmei and instead picks up the more demure side character Lisa Hayes.

Lord of the Rings:  Aragorn turns Eowyn down.  Admittedly, Arwen doesn't seem to be shy and Aragorn was always after her, but in the book she's barely mentioned until the end.

Neon Genesis Evangelion... well, okay, who knows where that would have gone.

Maybe not five of each, but it's a good start.  If you wanted, I could look through all the fairytales... I'm pretty certain Cinderella and Snow White count as stories where the quiet girl gets the man.



son_michael said:


> Not to mention there's the whole foreshadowing of Naruto succeeding where jiraya failed in love. It's very specific too, the girl that Jiraiya always loved, turned him down every single time, and Tsunade actually revealed to us that she loved him as well(obviously not a smuch as dan...does this sound familiar? ) but yet jiraiya still failed....Well Naruto wont be failing the same way, count on it.



In a sense, Naruto surpassed this goal already.  Sakura DID say she loved him, after all, even if she was lying.  And she readily admits he's worth loving.  So, inasmuch as is possible, he's succeeded in that goal.  There's nothing further to do in that department, Naruto has achieved all he needs to.  It's just Sakura who can't let go.  And Naruto could technically have ended this quest by accepting Sakura's offer, but obviously didn't want to live a lie.  

It's good to compare this with Naruto's other great ambition--to become Hokage.  Has he?  No.  But he's already surpassed it, everyone in the village acknowledges him, so in a sense he doesn't have to do anymore (One of Kishi's interviews hints that he might not).  Likewise with Sakura.  Has he achieved her love?  No.  But he's surpassed it in some ways, by earning her respect, trust, and belief, to the point that she WOULD love him if she wasn't hopelessly after someone else.  So in a sense... he no longer needs to.


----------



## Renyou (May 27, 2011)

Kage said:


> there will be no "realization" sakura has no shame. confessions 1 and 2 should be proof enough of this. she's just upset because nothing with sasuke-kun is rainbows and sunshine. she can't smile stupidly next to a apathetic sasuke like she use to without running the risk of getting her throat slit. i tried to give her the benefit of the doubt long ago but then her confession to naruto happened and her brilliant plan to "save" sasuke from his darkness made it clear to me. she is not going to change. ever.



"A detestable person is a detestable person." - Masashi Kishimoto.


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## Darkhope (May 27, 2011)

Seto Kaiba said:


> "Thankfully"? Thankfully she's still in love with the guy who tried to kill her?



I guess. Also on another note- (not meant to be a real argument)

It was you that mentioned Kishi wanted to use the "realistic" girl approach right?

To be honest, you would think it would be realistic for a girl to fall in love with the hero.  But the _truth_.... is that's not the case in many "realistic" situations.

Girls happen to be in love with assholes a hell of a lot of the time.


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## Renyou (May 27, 2011)

Darkhope said:


> But the _truth_.... is that's not the case in many "realistic" situations.
> 
> Girls happen to be in love with assholes a hell of a lot of the time.



They usually get over it when said asshole attempts to kill them. Or when they mature, which is not the case for Sakura yet.


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## Hitt (May 27, 2011)

Arles Celes said:


> Kishi cannot address that stuff as Naruto considering his feelings either towards Sakura(after her confession) or towards Hinata(and her own confession) would make at least one pairing canon and at least one pairing dead
> 
> And Kishi does not have the guts to put the trolling...errr pairing war to rest and who knows...perhaps he never will
> 
> Keep the unrequited love going on Kishi, your fans find that TOTALLY hot



This cannot be emphasized enough.  It's the only possibly important pairing shit that can be taken out of this chapter.  Nothing more.

If Kishi wanted to kill a pairing, or confirm another, he could've done it.  Look at this thread, and its participants.  Has anyone changed sides or positions?  No.  Because there's no irrefutable evidence here of anything.  I'd argue it's not evidence at all.  

He DID throw plenty of gas on the pairing fire though.  

When Kishi really finally wants to end this pairing bullshit, you'll know.


----------



## Turrin (May 27, 2011)

izzyisozaki said:


> No, he collaborates on them. Anything that has Kishi's own words is specified, as it is in interviews.



"Naruto Shippuden Character Data Book (in Japanese) [Paperback]
*Masashi Kishimoto (Author)*"

Kishi has help writing the books just like he does the manga, but he is the de facto author just like the manga. 



son_michael said:


> even if he writes the databooks, I feel like he contradicts them too much, I don't feel its a credible source.
> 
> bets to just stick to the manga, which has more than enough Naru Saku evidence.


When have characters feelings ever been contradicted? In-fact their are no contradiction in the Data-book at all, there are just hyperbole and the manga has hyperbole in it as well.


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## ajinko (May 27, 2011)

right there - narusaku died.


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## Darkhope (May 27, 2011)

Renyou said:


> They usually get over it when said asshole attempts to kill them. Or when they mature, which is not the case for Sakura yet.



Not particularly.  At least in the _Naruto verse_, that won't stop a girl in love.
In the _real world_ as well, for most people, the person you love could have done the most _horrific_ thing to you. Yet, you'll still love them because you can't help it.

Regardless of whether people claim she looks "sad" or "ashamed", the point is, she loves Sasuke. Not whether or not she likes loving him or not. The fact: She does.


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## son_michael (May 27, 2011)

Afalstein said:


> In a sense, Naruto surpassed this goal already.  Sakura DID say she loved him, after all, even if she was lying.  And she readily admits he's worth loving.  So, inasmuch as is possible, he's succeeded in that goal.  There's nothing further to do in that department, Naruto has achieved all he needs to.  It's just Sakura who can't let go.  And Naruto could technically have ended this quest by accepting Sakura's offer, but obviously didn't want to live a lie.
> 
> It's good to compare this with Naruto's other great ambition--to become Hokage.  Has he?  No.  But he's already surpassed it, everyone in the village acknowledges him, so in a sense he doesn't have to do anymore (One of Kishi's interviews hints that he might not).  Likewise with Sakura.  Has he achieved her love?  No.  But he's surpassed it in some ways, by earning her respect, trust, and belief, to the point that she WOULD love him if she wasn't hopelessly after someone else.  So in a sense... he no longer needs to.



Wait Wait...your saying Sakura acknowledging Naruto is awesome and she should love him is the same thing as "getting the girl"? Its not...not by a long shot.  Look right now Naruto is putting matters of love to the side so he can focus on his destiny and saving his friend. It doesn't mean he stopped loving her. Kishi could very well decide to make Naruto push Sakura into Sasuke's arms thinking that's what she truly wants but either way, naruto will always love her.

The truth of the matter is, its up to Sakura to make a pairing cannon, because when Sasuke is saved and redeemed, he will most likely just go with the flow and marry Sakura cause its the logical thing to do. She needs to figure out if she really will be happy with him or if its Naruto who atcually completes her world.


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## NarutoIzDaMan (May 27, 2011)

Kage said:


> there will be no "realization" *sakura has no shame*. confessions 1 and 2 should be proof enough of this. she's just upset because nothing with sasuke-kun is rainbows and sunshine. she can't smile stupidly next to a apathetic sasuke like she use to without running the risk of getting her throat slit. i tried to give her the benefit of the doubt long ago but then her confession to naruto happened and her brilliant plan to "save" sasuke from his darkness made it clear to me. *she is not going to change. ever.*



Sakura may still "love" Sasuke but the look on her face clearly implied that she is not proud of her feelings for him anymore (yes, she was *ashamed*) because she knows without a doubt that Sasuke is NOT a "great guy" (like the fodder nin implied) at all. 

There was a time I would have vehemently disagreed with you that Sakura would never change but after this chapter, I'm not so sure anymore. You could easily be right, maybe Sakura will never learn her lesson or maybe she will. At this point, nobody knows what the hell Kishi plans to do with her.


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## son_michael (May 27, 2011)

Turrin said:


> When have characters feelings ever been contradicted? In-fact their are no contradiction in the Data-book at all, there are just hyperbole and the manga has hyperbole in it as well.



Over the years I have seen many threads questioning the databooks, with evidence showing how the manga contradicts them. I really don't remember anymore, one thing I can think of is with Susanoo being stated as a technique that requires Tsukiyomi yet the manga clearly shows Sasuke does not have Tsukiyomi and yet he has Susanoo( and don't start with me on that argument...I will fight you tooth and nail but I will not provide pictures because im lazy..also that would be severely off topic here)


----------



## Kage (May 27, 2011)

NarutoIzDaMan said:


> Sakura may still "love" Sasuke but the look on her face clearly implied that she is not proud of her feelings for him anymore (yes, she was *ashamed*) because she knows without a doubt that Sasuke is NOT a "great guy" (like the fodder nin implied) at all.
> 
> There was a time I would have vehemently disagreed with you that Sakura would never change but after this chapter, I'm not so sure anymore. You could easily be right, maybe Sakura will never learn her lesson or maybe she will. At this point, nobody knows what the hell Kishi plans to do with her.



i really don't think it's that. she's just unhappy he's not fixded yet  she already tried convincing herself why it was wrong but it doesn't matter to her. naruto has given her hope for a happy T7 again so all she can do is BELIEVE in sasunaru _them._

i'm not holding my breath for sakura to become a redeemable heroine in any way.


----------



## Bellville (May 27, 2011)

Darkhope said:


> I guess. Also on another note- (not meant to be a real argument)
> 
> It was you that mentioned Kishi wanted to use the "realistic" girl approach right?
> 
> ...


Because they're idiots who can't see the forest for its trees and why is there a 'laugh' emoticon at the end of that phrase like it's okay/funny/anything to be smug about?

good job trolling.



Darkhope said:


> Not particularly.  At least in the _Naruto verse_, that won't stop a girl in love.
> In the _real world_ as well, for most people, the person you love could have done the most _horrific_ thing to you. Yet, you'll still love them because you can't help it.
> 
> Regardless of whether people claim she looks "sad" or "ashamed", the point is, she loves Sasuke. Not whether or not she likes loving him or not. The fact: She does.


it's not a claim, it's a fact that she doesn't look happy in the slightest. and if Kishi gives a damn about Sakura's development (odds are against that), how she feels about her feelings should have an impact on her behavior at the very least.


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## 4000TMNT (May 27, 2011)

I have a question, is kishi trying to show his readers that Sakura love for Sasuke is pose to be negative or positive, because if it pose to be positive, than he has a hard time convincing me.


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## Dokiz1 (May 27, 2011)

Afalstein said:


> A
> 
> 
> Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann.  Simon doesn't end up with the fiery Yoko, he ends up with the shy Nia.  And initially he was aiming for Yoko
> ...





*Spoiler*: __ 



Simon wasn't aiming for Yoko, he just thought there was something between them until he saw Kamina and yoko kissing. After Kamina died Yoko became completely irrelevant and  Nia pretty much replaced her as the heroine and she played a big role in the last arc, in fact, i doubt there would be a ''last arc'' without her, you could say she was the plot itself, that's how big her role was(something Hinata could never hope to have).  i also don't recall her being shy at all, calm maybe but not shy.


----------



## izzyisozaki (May 27, 2011)

Turrin said:


> "Naruto Shippuden Character Data Book (in Japanese) [Paperback]
> *Masashi Kishimoto (Author)*"



No durr, Kishimoto is the author of NARUTO.

I have a databook right in front of me that has the drafting staff in listed detail on the index page. It doesn't say 'text by Kishimoto', it says 'Story and drawings by Kishimoto'.

Nice try though.


----------



## son_michael (May 27, 2011)

4000TMNT said:


> I have a question, is kishi trying to show his readers that Sakura love for Sasuke is pose to be negative or positive, because if it pose to be positive, than he has a hard time convincing me.



Well so far he's shown that SAVING sasuke is positive and that loving Sasuke...maybe not so much


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## Arles Celes (May 27, 2011)

son_michael said:


> Well so far he's shown that SAVING sasuke is positive and that loving Sasuke...maybe not so much



Doesn't Sasuke bring great pain to BOTH Naruto and Sakura?

Even Sai said so...

Both bonds are just as obsessive and Sasuke treats them both like...not so nice?

It would be strange if Kishi believed one of those bonds as positive and the other as negative when they have so similar effects for both parties involved.


----------



## Turrin (May 27, 2011)

Arles Celes said:


> Actually there were hints even at the very beginning of part 1 that had Sakura showing some "implied" interest in Naruto quite alike the 2nd pic you had shown.
> 
> Link removed
> 
> ...


1. The picture you posted and the one I did aren't similar at all. In your picture Sakura is simply impressed by something Naruto did. In my picture Yamato is clearly hinting at Sakura developing feelings for Naruto (Which is also supported by the Data-book).

2. Nether of those things are teases of anything, they are just there to show the development in the relationship between Naruto and Sakura. A Tease would be if Naruto said he was in love with Hinata and than 10ch later we find out Naruto was just under a Genjutsu or something like that.



> Sakura did mature a bith though and is not so selfish as before but that is more due to character development than love development IMO.


You miss the point, you indicated that all the relationships really didn't develop. This is clearly not the case because Sakura at the start of the manga basically hated Naruto, now she not only views him as an amazing person, but she is very confused (in a good way) about her feelings for him. Thats a shit load of development. 



> Veeery few shonen heroes hardly give any though about the girl they "supposedly" love so much and instead fap to the guy that plans to screw everything and make everyone suffer.


Naruto has given more thought towards Sakura than any other characters except his rival and the current big bad, which is common in Shounnen.



> And regarding the databook so we have there that the 3rd databook relationship three says that she still loves Sasuke. The 2nd databook also says that "The one that filled his lonely existence was Sakura".


When did I say she isn't still in love with Sasuke. The way these things go in Anime/Manga is that the Heroin is still in love with the pretty boy, but develops confusing feelings for the Main Character, than eventually some big event happens and she realizes she loves the Main Character more. 



> So as it goes there we have 500 chapters of no change in the romance stuff besides lots of teasing. Good job Kish


Except their clearly has been a major change in the relationship between Sakura and Naruto. Now I'm not saying Kishi is good at writting romance, but lets not go overboard and say their has been zero development. 



Afalstein said:


> Mixed up some, but here are some indications.
> 
> Star Wars:  Other half.  Luke and Leia do NOT end up together (thank goodness) despite Luke's early designs on that.
> 
> ...


I crossed out the ones that don't count since they aren't manga/anime and are a completely different type of literature. On to the actually manga/anime examples:

1- In Cowboy bebop the MC dies at the end, so that kind of invalidates that whole thing. Also I don't remember their being any real romance in that to begin with, but its been awhile since I have seen that series. 

2- There is no romance in Samurai Champloo, so that is not an apt example

3- I'll give you Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagan, but theirs hardly anything normal about that series 

4- If the shy girl is the MC thats a totally different scenario, thus Witch Hunter doesn't count

5- Does Robetech even have a main heroin?

6- Well at the end of the first anime considering  the only people left on the planet are Shinji and Asuka its pretty safe to assume that if anything romantic did happen it would follow the stereotypes I presented. As for all the other random stuff now with Rebuild and shit, like you said who the fucks knows. 

So basically you have presented 1 example where this is the case and that manga was essentially centered around the idea of breaking norms, so its no that shocking it would go that route, also Yoko was never the same age as Simon making that pairing difficult to begin with. 1 Example does not mean i'm wrong about what is most probable in Anime/Manga. For your one example I can give probably upwards of 30 examples (or more) where what i'm talking about does indeed happen.

With that said I welcome anymore examples you can come up with but keep in mind, i'm looking for an Anime/Manga with a clearly defined Main Heroin and Main Hero, where the Hero desperately tries to make the Herion fall for him, but instead a shy girl ends up beating out the loudspoken hyper girl for his affections (and the loudspoken girl never loves him back).


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## izzyisozaki (May 27, 2011)

Arles Celes said:


> It would be strange if Kishi believed one of those bonds as positive and the other as negative when they have so similar effects for both parties involved.



Yeah it's so strange when one hardly affects Sasuke and the other does.


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## Bellville (May 27, 2011)

The pain Naruto's bond with Sasuke brings is not the same for Sakura. It's been said again and again, equating them is pointless. One bond with Sasuke has a substantially more negative effect than the other.


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## Supa Swag (May 27, 2011)

son_michael said:


> The story is about Naruto and Sasuke but Sakura is certainly not a side character, she has arcs, *plot significance* and fights. She's a main character.



No not really.

Sakura's the main heroine by default, as in she gets the most screentime out of all the females and has a lot of screentime with the main characters but the truth is she has very little impact on the plot.

Naruto and Sasuke are the only main characters in this manga. The story falls apart/is a completely different story without those 2. The impact in driving the story is undeniable. You can't say the same for Sakura.



			
				Arles Celes said:
			
		

> Sakura is only main character in that regard that she is the only girl in this manga who interacts with both Naruto and Sasuke.
> 
> Other than that she has no plot relavance, no power ups, and she doesn't seem to have any particular dreams or goals either.
> 
> ...



agreed


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## Turrin (May 27, 2011)

son_michael said:


> Over the years I have seen many threads questioning the databooks, with evidence showing how the manga contradicts them. I really don't remember anymore, one thing I can think of is with Susanoo being stated as a technique that requires Tsukiyomi yet the manga clearly shows Sasuke does not have Tsukiyomi and yet he has Susanoo( and don't start with me on that argument...I will fight you tooth and nail but I will not provide pictures because im lazy..also that would be severely off topic here)


Sasuke does have Tsukuyomi his just isn't as good as Itachi's.


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## 4000TMNT (May 27, 2011)

son_michael said:


> Well so far he's shown that SAVING sasuke is positive and that loving Sasuke...maybe not so much


I understand what you mean, but Kishi show the readers many times why Naruto wants to save Sasuke and show why naruto has a connection with Sasuke (good or bad reason at list he has a reason). Yet Kishi never once show a good reason why Sakura love Sasuke so much and Sasuke also show way more care for Naruto than he did for Sakura (That is before Sasuke went crazy).


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## Turrin (May 27, 2011)

izzyisozaki said:


> No durr, Kishimoto is the author of NARUTO.
> 
> I have a databook right in front of me that has the drafting staff in listed detail on the index page. It doesn't say 'text by Kishimoto', it says 'Story and drawings by Kishimoto'.
> 
> Nice try though.


Who does it list as the author than? Because on the Data-books I have seen it lists Kishimoto, and you don't get credit as the sole Author of a book if others have written shit in it, even if you wrote the original story.

Oh yeah theirs also this:

"A series of guidebooks for the Part I called First Official Data Book (秘伝·臨の書キャラクターオフィシャルデータBOOK Hiden: Rin no Sho Character Official Data Book?)[109] and Second Official Data Book (秘伝·闘の書キャラクターオフィシャルデータBOOK Hiden: Tō no Sho Character Official Data Book?)[110] were released only in Japan. The third databook, Character Official Data Book Hiden Sha no Sho (秘伝・者の書 ― キャラクターオフィシャルデータBOOK Hiden: Sha no Sho - Kyarakutā ofisharu dēta book ?) was released on September 4, 2008, and adapted Part II from the manga.[111] T*hese books contain character profiles, Jutsu guides and drafts made by Kishimoto*."


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## Arles Celes (May 27, 2011)

Turrin said:


> 1. The picture you posted and the one I did aren't similar at all. In your picture Sakura is simply impressed by something Naruto did. In my picture Yamato is clearly hinting at Sakura developing feelings for Naruto (Which is also supported by the Data-book).
> 
> 2. Nether of those things are teases of anything, they are just there to show the development in the relationship between Naruto and Sakura. A Tease would be if Naruto said he was in love with Hinata and than 10ch later we find out Naruto was just under a Genjutsu or something like that.
> 
> ...



Actually Sakura was not only impressed but also did blush when she was thinking about Naruto. She had also blushed at the very beginning of part 2 when asking him  if she changed though they were separated for 3 years and most of part 2 NaruSaku hints did not happen.

Come on...which manga shows the main heroine still in love with the pretty boy after 500 had already passed and said pretty boy is at his worst? 

Kishi could easily make her forget Sasuke(if he was heading that route) and simply keep feelings about Naruto ambiguous till the final chapters when she finally decides to be his Naruto's girlfriend. So why keep showing her still loving Sasuke? Why simply NOT show it? It would still keep the pairings ambiguous enough even if SasuSaku was NOT shown at all.

How many of those heroines in those 30 mangas would tolerate such abuse from said pretty boy if their feelings towards him were not genuine? I guarantee that pretty much anyone would "wake up" after the first killing attempt...much less the 2nd or 3rd.

It MAY be attributed to Kishi's bad writing but considering how he is keeping her love towards Sasuke and throwing small hints here and there it seems more like something planned rather than a casual error during work.


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## Bellville (May 27, 2011)

Can we just stop with the comparing of Naruto to other written works? It's not going to help your point because however similar, Naruto is still not those other series. Nothing guarantees they'll work out the same way.


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## Arles Celes (May 27, 2011)

izzyisozaki said:


> Yeah it's so strange when one hardly affects Sasuke and the other does.



The one that affects him has so much influence on him right now that Sasuke still plans to destroy Konoha and he hardly had given a damn about said guy fro the whole part 2 while thinking 100% of his time about revenge.

It was only in latest chapters when Sasuke actually thinks that he might be a trouble to him and so he needs to be at full strenght to defeat him and destroy Konoha afterwards.

Before that when Zetsu said that Naruto possibly surpassed him Sasuke didn't give about it and Naruto even a single though.

Basically he ignored and treated like shit both Naruto and Sakura alike.

Naruto makes up for that by thinking about Sasuke more than Sakura does but hey...He IS the main character. Sakura does not have the luxury of being equally developed as it is not her story after all. She is just a spectator and she realized that lately.

Naruto WILL redeem Sasuke but it will most likely happen at the very end...not unlike SasuSaku IF Kishi goes that route.

As it goes right now pretty much every pairing in this manga is one sided besides ItaSasu...


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## Oturan (May 27, 2011)

*Whats it gonna take, Sakura...*

what is it gonna take for her to stop loving Sasuke..I mean seriosuly, he tried to kill her..why does she love him...WHY!?
I mean I don't care that much but you have a guy like Naruto walking around yet she's still hung over that emo..when it's pretty obvious that he'll never love her..why can't she realize that..?

Narutopek


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## izzyisozaki (May 27, 2011)

Turrin said:


> Who does it list as the author than? Because on the Data-books I have seen it lists Kishimoto, and you don't get credit as the sole Author of a book if others have written shit in it, even if you wrote the original story.



When it's an official guide, of course the manga creator is given on the cover.
when there is no indication that the commentary is exclusively Kishimoto's, it's obviously the work of the editorial staff. Whenever there's the 'exclusive' commentary of the author himself somewhere they are quick to point it out with all the honors.

Like I said I have the databooks (first 3) with the index that appropriately lists them.


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## krazyefra (May 27, 2011)

ajinko said:


> right there - narusaku died.


How did it die? Naruto still loves her and doesn't hate her ...


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## Dokiz1 (May 27, 2011)

^ dead or not, i don't even know why you bothered responding to his post


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## Omnipotent Pirate (May 27, 2011)

krazyefra said:


> How did it die? Naruto still loves her and doesn't hate her ...



I agree, he still cares about sasuke and the bastard put a chidori through his lung and tried to kill him a few times after that.


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## Omnipotent Pirate (May 27, 2011)

Probably whatever it will take for naruto to stop caring about sasuke. People are probably more forgiving of murder attempts in the ninja world. jiraya threw naruto off a cliff, and they had a good relationship. of course there was no malicious intent, but it;s still something that would need to be addressed at some point.


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## Turrin (May 27, 2011)

Arles Celes said:


> Actually Sakura was not only impressed but also did blush when she was thinking about Naruto. She had also blushed at the very beginning of part 2 when asking him  if she changed though they were separated for 3 years and most of part 2 NaruSaku hints did not happen.


A character blushing and being shocked at someone's actions does not hint that she is now in love with Naruto, at best it hints that she might develop deeper feelings for the guy, which she has over the course of the manga. 



> Come on...which manga shows the main heroine still in love with the pretty boy after 500 had already passed and said pretty boy is at his worst?


You have to realize that Kishimoto did not know this manga was going to be 500ch long, most mangaka are happy if their work makes it 100 ~ 200ch. Its likely that Kishimoto has artificially increased the length between key events because of the series popularity. 

So you can't compare Naruto with other works of manga that end after 100 ~ 200ch, since its a totally different circumstance. Now again, I think Kishi's romance skills are worth shit, so thats another factor consider. 



> Kishi could easily make her forget Sasuke(if he was heading that route) and simply keep feelings about Naruto ambiguous till the final chapters when she finally decides to be his Naruto's girlfriend. So why keep showing her still loving Sasuke? Why simply NOT show it? It would still keep the pairings ambiguous enough even if SasuSaku was NOT shown at all.


Why would he end the love triangle dynamic before Naruto even keeps his promise to bring back Sasuke and confesses? Not only would that not make sense from a story perspective, but it also doesn't make sense from a business perspective since Kishi would loose some faper readers if he ended the triangle now.



> How many of those heroines in those 30 mangas would tolerate such abuse from said pretty boy if their feelings towards him were not genuine? I guarantee that pretty much anyone would "wake up" after the first killing attempt...much less the 2nd or 3rd.


Thats the thing you guys don't understand. No ones saying Sakura's feelings aren't real, they are very real. However its possible for a person to love someone and than find out they love someone more.

As for tolerating abuse, look at berserk.


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## ajinko (May 27, 2011)

Naruto still loves her but i think he gave up on pursuing her romantically. and the moment i think that happened was the confession.


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## krazyefra (May 27, 2011)

Dokiz1 said:


> ^ dead or not, i don't even know why you bothered responding to his post


Because I wanted to let him/her know how his/her post made me facepalm.


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## erivar (May 27, 2011)

My only input is in the form of the question: why don't this kids date each other like normal teenagers and if it doesn't work out, move on to the next person?

Their life would be infinitely better because they can test run everyone till they find their "true love" for those that believe in that shit. Why can't Naruto consider going out with Hinata who is obviously willing and ready? Does he plan to remain a virgin for life if he doesn't get Sakura? And ditto for Sakura. 
Obviously though, this is a run of the mill typical fairytale structure where the characters pine away for their "true love" and only end up and give their virginity to said "true love" and live happily ever after or some variation of that. So what i'm expecting, i don't know. I mean even Pocahontas fell in love with some other dude right after declaring her "true love" for John Smith. I guess anything can happen because the story is not over but i doubt it.


Thank god the nonexistent "romance" is not a part of the plot or a major part of the Naruto and Sasuke drama because that would be boring as hell.


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## Turrin (May 27, 2011)

izzyisozaki said:


> When it's an official guide, of course the manga creator is given on the cover.
> when there is no indication that the commentary is exclusively Kishimoto's, it's obviously the work of the editorial staff. Whenever there's the 'exclusive' commentary of the author himself somewhere they are quick to point it out with all the honors.
> 
> Like I said I have the databooks (first 3) with the index that appropriately lists them.


You are not given the title of author of that book, unless you write that book. I also posted information citing that Kishi is the one who writes the Data-books in my other post. Now maybe you have the books and maybe you don't, but ether way your wrong.


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## Seto Kaiba (May 27, 2011)

Darkhope said:


> I guess. Also on another note- (not meant to be a real argument)
> 
> It was you that mentioned Kishi wanted to use the "realistic" girl approach right?
> 
> ...



I don't really care what she does romantically outside of getting over Sasuke, it's the only infatuation that is destructive to the character. Even Naruto, however much his character has been negatively affected by the Sasuke issue is allowed to flourish, if not for the fact that he is the main character.

It is NOT realistic for a girl to grow crawling or have romantic expectations for a guy that tried to kill her three times, and the fact that you'd imply that it'd be realistic for a girl to do so is fucking ridiculous. I mean, what the hell? 

I guess Rihanna and Tina Turner weren't realistic women either ,they should've just stayed with their men. I guess all the women at the Battered Women's shelters aren't realistic either. This honestly one of the worst things you've posted. It's disgusting. 



Darkhope said:


> Not particularly.  At least in the _Naruto verse_, that won't stop a girl in love.



Every couple in the Narutoverse has shown to be a loving, functional, understanding, and almost internal drama and/or angst-free relationship. Sakura is the only one pining for a guy that would've been her murderer. It being in the Narutoverse is hardly an excuse, especially since we are supposed to relate to the characters and the values espoused in the story.  



> In the _real world_ as well, for most people, the person you love could have done the most _horrific_ thing to you. Yet, you'll still love them because you can't help it.



Maybe for you, but I know I, and I'd hope most other people would have enough respect for themselves to drop any expectations of romance with a person that tried to kill them three times. 



> Regardless of whether people claim she looks "sad" or "ashamed", the point is, she loves Sasuke. Not whether or not she likes loving him or not. The fact: She does.



That seems to be all you care about, rather than the circumstances that come with it. It's pretty pathetic.


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## Lacie (May 27, 2011)

I don't understand why people are so intent on bringing Sakura's remaining feelings up whenever they can and questioning them because Sasuke tried to kill her, when no one questions Naruto's unyielding loyalty to Sasuke when he tried to cold-bloodedly kill him too. Sakura and Naruto won't give up on that stupid lone avenger just because he attempts, in his momentary madness, to take their lives. It doesn't matter to them, or perhaps it's just gets the better out of them because he's so dear to them. Either way, they won't renounce on him for that. That's all.


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## ajinko (May 27, 2011)




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## HiddenCornsHandsomeDevil (May 27, 2011)

In before she see's error of her ways and puts out for Kakashi as naruto cries himself to sleep


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## Krimson (May 27, 2011)

Arles Celes said:


> Come on...which manga shows the main heroine still in love with the pretty boy after 500 had already passed and said pretty boy is at his worst?
> 
> Kishi could easily make her forget Sasuke(if he was heading that route) and simply keep feelings about Naruto ambiguous till the final chapters when she finally decides to be his Naruto's girlfriend. So why keep showing her still loving Sasuke? Why simply NOT show it? It would still keep the pairings ambiguous enough even if SasuSaku was NOT shown at all.
> 
> ...



It's called suspense. Would you be more or less interested in the manga if all pairings had been resolved 300 chapters ago? Obviously less since you're posting on this thread. 

You're solution of making Sakura stop loving Sasuke while keeping her feelings for Naruto ambiguous doesn't work because that's just a dead giveaway that SasuSaku is dead. Theres no way Sakura's feelings would change and then flip-flop back. That would just be horrible, horrible writing and make everything leading up to the development of her first change in feelings totally pointless.


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## edelweiss (May 27, 2011)

Lacie said:


> I don't understand why people are so intent on bringing Sakura's remaining feelings up whenever they can and questioning them because Sasuke tried to kill her, when no one questions Naruto's unyielding loyalty to Sasuke when he tried to cold-bloodedly kill him too. Sakura and Naruto won't give up on that stupid lone avenger just because he attempts, in his momentary madness, to take their lives. It doesn't matter to them, or perhaps it's just gets the better out of them because he's so dear to them. Either way, they won't renounce on him for that. That's all.



Summed it up so well I have nothing further to add. 
*tips hat*


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## AoshiKun (May 27, 2011)

Seto Kaiba said:


> It is NOT realistic for a girl to grow crawling or have romantic expectations for a guy that tried to kill her three times, and the fact that you'd imply that it'd be realistic for a girl to do so is fucking ridiculous. I mean, what the hell?


Realism is something you will_ never_ find in a manga 



Arles Celes said:


> Actually Sakura was not only impressed but also did blush when she was thinking about Naruto. She had also blushed at the very beginning of part 2 when asking him  if she changed though they were separated for 3 years and most of part 2 NaruSaku hints did not happen.
> 
> Come on...which manga shows the main heroine still in love with the pretty boy after 500 had already passed and said pretty boy is at his worst?
> 
> ...


For me isn't Kishi's guilty but the fans. They fail to see how much Sakura and Naruto love Sasuke, their bonds is that strong. For Naruto he is a brother and for Sakura a lover.

Sasuke tried to kill Naruto too however he didn't give up and never will, the same goes to Sakura. This is how Kishimoto writes and this is the reason for I say NS is not gonna happen they will never stop loving their former friend.


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## Oturan (May 27, 2011)

HiddenCornsHandsomeDevil said:


> In before she see's error of her ways and puts out for Kakashi as naruto cries himself to sleep



yeah..I know Naruto is no better either


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## eyeknockout (May 27, 2011)

you must have misinterpreted the panel. it wasn't sasuke who she loved and visioned, it was drunken lee


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## Seto Kaiba (May 27, 2011)

Lacie said:


> I don't understand why people are so intent on bringing Sakura's remaining feelings up whenever they can and questioning them because Sasuke tried to kill her, when no one questions Naruto's unyielding loyalty to Sasuke when he tried to cold-bloodedly kill him too. Sakura and Naruto won't give up on that stupid lone avenger just because he attempts, in his momentary madness, to take their lives. It doesn't matter to them, or perhaps it's just gets the better out of them because he's so dear to them. Either way, they won't renounce on him for that. That's all.



Everyone questions Naruto, they rag on him, all the time. I do it a lot myself. It's not even the same thing anyways, it really doesn't help your case to bring it up, because at least he has a strong basis for his attachment, and the nature of his feelings and bond with Sasuke make all the difference too.


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## Kage (May 27, 2011)

Arles Celes said:


> The one that affects him has so much influence on him right now that Sasuke still plans to destroy Konoha and he hardly had given a damn about said guy fro the whole part 2 while thinking 100% of his time about revenge.


and it's only why he took dearly beloved niisans eyes after he said he wouldn't. he won't do it until he handles naruto first. sasuke played right into narutos hands on this one. yeah i wonder why sasuke hasn't been thinking about him when he convinced himself he had broken his bonds and it should stay this way. real mystery that.


> It was only in latest chapters when Sasuke actually thinks that he might be a trouble to him and so he needs to be at full strenght to defeat him and destroy Konoha afterwards.


it's only the 2nd time since the entirety of part II that they have met 
both times he reacts to naruto rather noticeably. and last time he stayed to chat of his own free will (even after being prompted to leave)


> Before that when Zetsu said that Naruto possibly surpassed him Sasuke didn't give about it and Naruto even a single though.


pretty easy to do when said nardo is not there. 


> Basically he ignored and treated like shit both Naruto and Sakura alike.


i don't know how you could have a decent understanding on why sakura is "wasted potential"


> Sakura is only main character in that regard that she is the only girl in this manga who interacts with both Naruto and Sasuke.
> 
> Other than that *she has no plot relavance*, no power ups, and she doesn't seem to have any particular dreams or goals either


and then act like if you switched naruto with sakura the results with sasuke would be the same. how does this work?


> ...He IS the main character. Sakura does not have the luxury of being equally developed as it is not her story after all. She is just a spectator and she realized that lately.


hence why they are different. no one is denying it's unhealthy for both but if the situation were the same for both naruto would be relying on someone else to take care of it because he _can't_. likely taking the seat next to sakura to watch the show.



> Naruto WILL redeem Sasuke but it will most likely happen at the very end...not unlike SasuSaku IF Kishi goes that route.


naruto changing sasuke has been foreshadowed since...forever. sasusaku? not so much. it would just be shit.



> As it goes right now pretty much every pairing in this manga is one sided besides ItaSasu...


this is a whole other can of worms here but it's so typical.


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## Arles Celes (May 27, 2011)

Turrin said:


> A character blushing and being shocked at someone's actions does not hint that she is now in love with Naruto, at best it hints that she might develop deeper feelings for the guy, which she has over the course of the manga.
> 
> 
> You have to realize that Kishimoto did not know this manga was going to be 500ch long, most mangaka are happy if their work makes it 100 ~ 200ch. Its likely that Kishimoto has artificially increased the length between key events because of the series popularity.
> ...



I recall that Kishi once said even during part 1(when he already had part 2 in mind) that he has the whole manga pretty much planned(including the end). Hell...Sasuke defeating Naruto during the end of Part 1 and leaving Konoha was all planned for the upcoming part 2. Kishi might have changed some stuff but I'm pretty sure the main stuff had only minor changes at most. I agree that there are probably many retcons though...

Why would he end the love triangle? Because...errr what is the point on making truly in love with a guy that makes her look bad throught the WHOLE manga only to "magically" dismiss him at the very end. Why not introduce a different dude instead of Sasuke to compete for Sakura's love? He had PLENTY of chances to make Sakura forget about him and make it believable and yet he still keeps that stuff.

He is also certainly loosing readers by being indecisive regarding his pairings. And once he makes his choice he will lose fans either way.

So why not do so earlier?

If Sakura's love for him is detrimental to her character then why keep it?

And regarding Berserk, didn't the chick lose his mind when Griffith raped her? And she was hardly happy when Guts almost did the same. Would she take murder attempts much better?


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## ajinko (May 27, 2011)

even if narusaku happens  i will feel sorry for both naruto and sakura. naruto because he would be invoved with someone that is not truy attracted to him and sakura becasue she is not truly in love with naruto. they would both be living a lie.

sakura's confession included every narusaku argument ever brought up for the pairing and the whoe shit got dumped on in one chapter.


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## LeeTheG7 (May 27, 2011)

Ok to answer the first question. Its because Sakura is stupid. There are a lot of stupid girls out there and thats who Sakura represents.

You can't compare Naruto and Sakura AT ALL. Naruto has AN EXTREMELY FORGIVING PERSONALITY!!!!! I think he thinks of Nagato as a friend(the guy who killed Jiriaya and tried to make his life hell) so does Naruto forgiving Sasuke suprise me after he forgives Nagato, no not at all. However Sakura is different she actually still loves him like a boyfriend type over Naruto, Lee, the fodder guy each of them a better guy then Sasuke. Sakura has shown no signs of doing what she has towards Sasuke to anybody else. Would she forgive Nagato? doubt it Would she care if even Naruto left the villiage? No. Comparing Sakura and Naruto's situation is comparing an apple to a donut.


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## Turrin (May 27, 2011)

Arles Celes said:


> I recall that Kishi once said even during part 1(when he already had part 2 in mind) that he has the whole manga pretty much planned(including the end). Hell...Sasuke defeating Naruto during the end of Part 1 and leaving Konoha was all planned for the upcoming part 2. Kishi might have changed some stuff but I'm pretty sure the main stuff had only minor changes at most. I agree that there are probably many retcons though...


Kishimoto probably did have all the main events planned out, however I doubt that he planned out every little chapter it would take to get their from the beginning. I also doubt that he thought at the start of the manga when he was designing the characters and romantic dynamics between them that, the manga would last for over 500ch. 



> Why would he end the love triangle? Because...errr what is the point on making truly in love with a guy that makes her look bad throught the WHOLE manga only to "magically" dismiss him at the very end. Why not introduce a different dude instead of Sasuke to compete for Sakura's love? He had PLENTY of chances to make Sakura forget about him and make it believable and yet he still keeps that stuff.


The simple answer is Kishi is not going to resolve the love triangle until after, during, or shortly before Naruto vs Sasuke. Since the whole love triangle romance subplot is intrinsically tied to that battle. 

Now do I agree with you that he's stretch it out too long, I sure do, but like I said I don't think Kishi believe that the final battle between Naruto and Sasuke was over 500ch away.



> He is also certainly loosing readers by being indecisive regarding his pairings. And once he makes his choice he will lose fans either way.


I don't think he's losing any amount of readers he cares about.



> And regarding Berserk, didn't the chick lose his mind when Griffith raped her? And she was hardly happy when Guts almost did the same. Would she take murder attempts much better?


What does this have to do with anything? Griffith treated Caska like shit and she still loved him. I'll agree that Naruto is the only manga where I have seen a MC still love a guy that intentionally tried to kill her several times, but I don't see how that means SakuraXSasuke is going to happen.


----------



## Arles Celes (May 27, 2011)

Krimson said:


> It's called suspense. Would you be more or less interested in the manga if all pairings had been resolved 300 chapters ago? Obviously less since you're posting on this thread.
> 
> You're solution of making Sakura stop loving Sasuke while keeping her feelings for Naruto ambiguous doesn't work because that's just a dead giveaway that SasuSaku is dead. Theres no way Sakura's feelings would change and then flip-flop back. That would just be horrible, horrible writing and make everything leading up to the development of her first change in feelings totally pointless.



Isn't this mostly a manga about kicking ass and "brotherly" bonds?

Romance is just an extra bonus out there.

I doubt even most SasuSaku tards would stop reading this manga if SasuSaku was declared officially dead. Well...maybe excepting Jizz

One of the themes of the maga seems to persevere and hold faith. Naruto is still beleiving in Sasuke and trasuring the bond he has with him despite all adversities. It would fit with Sakura remaining true to her feelings to Sasuke as well and believing that he can be saved. If her feelings are genuine just likes Naruto's friendship, then I guess her feelings should stick. If Kishi believes such persevernave to be positive then so be it *shrugs*

And regarding SasuSaku being dead there are maaaany on this forum that could assure you that SasuSaku was dead loong ago. So Kishi has been doing hardly the perfect job by giving them hope. IMO most of them believed SasuSaku dead until Naruto said that he believes that Sakura still loves Sasuke and Sai confirming it. And it is still so one sided and Sasuke more unfit for shippings as ever before. 

So if Kishi does care THAT much about SasuSaku fans...he was hardly doing the best job IMO.


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## Lacie (May 27, 2011)

Seto Kaiba said:


> Everyone questions Naruto, they rag on him, all the time. I do it a lot myself. It's not even the same thing anyways, it really doesn't help your case to bring it up, because at least he has a strong basis for his attachment, and the nature of his feelings and bond with Sasuke make all the difference too.



People aren't spamming KL with "When Will Naruto Give Up On The Sauce" threads. Either way, Sakura and Sasuke's bond may not be as profound as Naruto and Sasuke's, but there were some moments when both of them expressed something akin to care to each other. Heck even Kakashi is reluctant to kill Sasuke because he loves him when Sasuke couldn't care less, yet I don't see Kakashi inciting all of the exasperation Sakura does. My point is, all of team 7 can get us very vexated with their fixation on Sasuke, I don't understand why Sakura has to shoulder most of it.


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## Silver Fang (May 27, 2011)

I guess she still loves him for the same reasons women still love the jerk who beats them. 

I don't really see what Sakura or Naruto's obsession with Sasuke is. But oh well. Nothing I can do about it.


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## Madchester (May 27, 2011)

Lacie said:


> People aren't spamming KL with "When Will Naruto Give Up On The Sauce" threads.



they do when naruto makes those dumb comments, it just so happened to be sakura's turn this chapter, and now she's getting dealt with

deal with it


also, profound isn't a word you should use to describe anything in this shitheap of a comic book


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## Dokiz1 (May 27, 2011)

AoshiKun said:


> Realism is something you will_ never_ find in a manga .



Everyone knows this but Kishi has said in an interview Sakura is supposed to represent a realistic girl.


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## Omnipotent Pirate (May 27, 2011)

LeeTheG7 said:


> Ok to answer the first question. Its because Sakura is stupid. There are a lot of stupid girls out there and thats who Sakura represents.
> 
> You can't compare Naruto and Sakura AT ALL. Naruto has AN EXTREMELY FORGIVING PERSONALITY!!!!! I think he thinks of Nagato as a friend(the guy who killed Jiriaya and tried to make his life hell) so does Naruto forgiving Sasuke suprise me after he forgives Nagato, no not at all. However Sakura is different she actually still loves him like a boyfriend type over Naruto, Lee, the fodder guy each of them a better guy then Sasuke. Sakura has shown no signs of doing what she has towards Sasuke to anybody else. Would she forgive Nagato? doubt it Would she care if even Naruto left the villiage? No. Comparing Sakura and Naruto's situation is comparing an apple to a donut.



I remember naruto saying he couldn't forgive nagato. he just wouldn't kill him because he didn't want to keep the cycle of revenge and hatred going. And i know sakura would care if naruto left. she did care about naruto, even if it wasn't the same way she cared about sasuke.


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## Seto Kaiba (May 27, 2011)

Arles Celes said:


> Isn't this mostly a manga about kicking ass and "brotherly" bonds?
> 
> Romance is just an extra bonus out there.
> 
> ...



I think it's utterly hypocritical of those same fans to be parading on how NaruSaku is dead when the guy of their preferred pair just tried to kill the girl that loved him in cold blood. What really gets me though, as much can be inferred by the last person I responded to, is that they don't seem to care about the circumstances and consequences that Sakura's infatuation with Sasuke brings to her character. However callous he my act towards her, whatever terrible things he may try do to her, as long she loves him seems to be the only thing they care about or able to see, rather than how destructive it truly is to her, and how much it makes her suffer.


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## edelweiss (May 27, 2011)

LeeTheG7 said:


> Ok to answer the first question. Its because Sakura is stupid. There are a lot of stupid girls out there and thats who Sakura represents.



She's not stupid, she's just immature and because of that desires what she can't have. She embodies a very normal predicament that comes with immaturity, not necessarily stupidity. That is where her normalcy comes in. If anything, call her average if you want, because that is technically more common than stupid. Note I say technically, because I'm looking at this as if it's a bell curve.

Also note that Sakura is one of the more intelligent characters in the series in terms of pure brain power.

So really, calling her stupid is your subjective opinion and it shouldn't be used to back up your argument. If she was, however, truly below average in terms of brain power, you could perhaps blame her choice in men on that fact.


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## Iamacloud (May 27, 2011)

I'm flabergasted that people still try to defend NaruSaku after it has been confirmed (was already apparent in 469, but now it's canon) that she tried to manipulate him through his feelings for her. That's just low, and I don't get why people would want Naruto to end up with her still.

If something even remotely close to this happened to NH, I'd stop supporting it lol. 

I guess some people just ship till death. 



ajinko said:


> right there - narusaku died.



Some people will deny that even after NH becomes canon. 

NS arguments until 540: It's obvious Sakura has been falling for Naruto all through part 2, and she obviously is over that bastard Sasuke.

Chapter 540: She'll fall for Naruto once he saves Sasuke, it's obvious!

Actually to their defense, a LOT of NaruSaku fans jumped ship since 469, and now we're seeing the most hardcore of them all still desperately clinging to their ship.


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## Omnipotent Pirate (May 27, 2011)

I disagree on the immaturity thing. when she's called out by her friends about sasuke, she comes to agree that he should die. I've seen what immature people do when they get called out on shit. they get defensive and start arguing and ignore the problem. Sakura at least tries to face her issues.


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## Orxon (May 27, 2011)

Well personally, I've never understood why Kishi thinks a 16 year old girl is even capable of feeling such powerful love but whatever.

It's a little sad.


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## LeeTheG7 (May 27, 2011)

Omnipotent Pirate said:


> I remember naruto saying he couldn't forgive nagato. he just wouldn't kill him because he didn't want to keep the cycle of revenge and hatred going. And i know sakura would care if naruto left. she did care about naruto, even if it wasn't the same way she cared about sasuke.



Well even Naruto has a little bit of limits. He isn't going to go in there saying "Hey whats up Nagato those Pein bodies were tough but its all good fun we are still buddies right" Of course Naruto is going to say he could never forgive him the guy did kill his teacher afterall. Still he was very quick to defend Nagato when Madara was talking about him. I really think Naruto thinks of him as a friend he even told Konan about all the things that Nagato gave him like he was this great guy that helped Naruto. All I'm saying is based off what Naruto has done for other people (Neji and Nagato for example) it doesn't suprise me he would forgive his friend.

Part 1 Sakura wouldn't have cared at all if Naruto just peaced out to hang out with Orochimaru.


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## edelweiss (May 27, 2011)

Omnipotent Pirate said:


> I disagree on the immaturity thing. when she's called out by her friends about sasuke, she comes to agree that he should die. I've seen what immature people do when they get called out on shit. they get defensive and start arguing and ignore the problem. Sakura at least tries to face her issues.



Oh, I'm not saying she's immature in all respects, but that she is in the love realm. ^^;
She reminds me very much of a girl who goes back to an abusive guy even after everything is said and done, and it is hard to understand why, especially when in real life women who actually do this are not always dumb, just..who knows! I don't really *know* the complete explanation of the situation from personal experience, but I know psychology can explain it. But I'm not going that far into it. Lol.


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## First Tsurugi (May 27, 2011)

Iamacloud said:


> I'm flabergasted that people still try to defend NaruSaku after it has been confirmed (was already apparent in 469, but now it's canon) that she tried to manipulate him through his feelings for her. That's just low, and I don't get why people would want Naruto to end up with her still.
> 
> If something even remotely close to this happened to NH, I'd stop supporting it lol.
> 
> I guess some people just ship till death.



I'm amazed that people continue to support any of these terribly, _*terribly*_ handled abominations that claim to be relationships but you know, some people just find a way.


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## Omnipotent Pirate (May 27, 2011)

LeeTheG7 said:


> Well even Naruto has a little bit of limits. He isn't going to go in there saying "Hey whats up Nagato those Pein bodies were tough but its all good fun we are still buddies right" Of course Naruto is going to say he could never forgive him the guy did kill his teacher afterall. Still he was very quick to defend Nagato when Madara was talking about him. I really think Naruto thinks of him as a friend he even told Konan about all the things that Nagato gave him like he was this great guy that helped Naruto. All I'm saying is based off what Naruto has done for other people (Neji and Nagato for example) it doesn't suprise me he would forgive his friend.
> 
> Part 1 Sakura wouldn't have cared at all if Naruto just peaced out to hang out with Orochimaru.



You must have missed panels where sakura cheered naruto on in the chuunin exams and worried about him losing his dream in the written part. Sakura would have cared if naruto left. the only evidence that says she wouldn't is in the first few chapters.


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## Arles Celes (May 27, 2011)

Turrin said:


> Kishimoto probably did have all the main events planned out, however I doubt that he planned out every little chapter it would take to get their from the beginning. I also doubt that he thought at the start of the manga when he was designing the characters and romantic dynamics between them that, the manga would last for over 500ch.
> 
> 
> The simple answer is Kishi is not going to resolve the love triangle until after, during, or shortly before Naruto vs Sasuke. Since the whole love triangle romance subplot is intrinsically tied to that battle.
> ...



If romance is as important to Kishi as you seem to imply and he had their personalities rather clear from the start then so should the outcome to said romances be clear to him since long ago IMO.

The love triangle is hardly tied to the fianl battle as Sasuke wont be fighting Naruto to gain Sakura's love and vice versa. The ONLY thing that will matter during the final battle will be RM and EMS. And Naruto's blind devotion to "save" his friend of course

BTW the promise you brough in one of your prevoius posts is hardly important at this point either. Seriously, show me ONE panel when Naruto or Sakura were thinking about said promise in part 2 BESIDES the kage meeting arc when it was mentioned again after like...250 chapters.

Sakura had already freed Naruto from said promise and he made it clear that said promise was HARDLY his main motivation and he is doing it above all for himself and NOT to win Sakura's love. 

Besides how would that make sense:

*Naruto defeats Sasuke and brings him to Konoha*

Naruto: Hey Sakura here is Sasuke. I finally fullfilled my promise.

Sakura: Oh, you didn't have to...

Naruto:? Sakura chan now that he is here must confess that I...

Sakura: Yeah I know..err I mean I love you too

Naruto: Really...you are not lying again are you

Sasuke:

Sakura: Nope it is for real this time

Naruto: Sakura....

Sakura: Naruto...*blush*

Sasuke:

It would be awkward as hell IMO after all that happened and it would diminish Naruto's bond with Sasuke by making it look like he did it mostly for her.

To your other answer...if Kishi hardly will care about losing fans then why would he care about SasuSaku fans? He migh have simply make Naruto show more attention to Hinata and there we have another love triangle right there. And one that can actually be developed as Sasuke is no longer in the village while Hinata actually is.


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## Stripes (May 27, 2011)

Her love capability is on the fritz. Kishi romance tale here is failing at as quick rate.


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## Dashido (May 27, 2011)

Lacie said:


> People aren't spamming KL with "When Will Naruto Give Up On The Sauce" threads. Either way, Sakura and Sasuke's bond may not be as profound as Naruto and Sasuke's, but there were some moments when both of them expressed something akin to care to each other. Heck even Kakashi is reluctant to kill Sasuke because he loves him when Sasuke couldn't care less, yet I don't see Kakashi inciting all of the exasperation Sakura does. My point is, all of team 7 can get us very vexated with their fixation on Sasuke, I don't understand why Sakura has to shoulder most of it.



Wait..are we on the same forum ....People always make threads about Naruto's love for Sasuke...seriously, I think its safe to say its more often than Sakura threads....


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## Fay (May 27, 2011)

Whatever happened to Karin btw? I recall her not dying? *hasn't read the manga in over a year*


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## LeeTheG7 (May 27, 2011)

edelweiss said:


> She's not stupid, she's just immature and because of that desires what she can't have. She embodies a very normal predicament that comes with immaturity, not necessarily stupidity. That is where her normalcy comes in. If anything, call her average if you want, because that is technically more common than stupid. Note I say technically, because I'm looking at this as if it's a bell curve.
> 
> Also note that Sakura is one of the more intelligent characters in the series in terms of pure brain power.
> 
> So really, calling her stupid is your subjective opinion and it shouldn't be used to back up your argument. If she was, however, truly below average in terms of brain power, you could perhaps blame her choice in men on that fact.



You say tomato I say TomAto. what you said in the first paragraph about being avg. or whatever I already addressed I said there are lots of stupid girls out there and Sakura represents that. So I don't see where we disagree.
There is a difference between books smart and being actually smart or wise. Sakura hasn't shown once to be anything other then book smart. See and the last part is the opposite for me. I see her choice of men one of the big reasons she is stupid.


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## Iamacloud (May 27, 2011)

First Tsurugi said:


> I'm amazed that people continue to support any of these terribly, _*terribly*_ handled abominations that claim to be relationships but you know, some people just find a way.



What's so terrible about NH?

Hinata's confession not being addressed yet? Actually the best thing that could happen.

- Naruto falling for Hinata right away would have felt wrong, everyone knew he still loved Sakura at that point.

- Gave time to Kishi to put the axe in NaruSaku.

- Gave time for Naruto's feelings to evolve (of course Kishi didn't reveal anything about it yet... that's the final reveal as far as pairings go).

- Hinata wasn't trying to pressure Naruto into responding. She knew he didn't love her (she would have noticed). But it does change the old premise of NaruHina, Naruto simply can't be oblivious to her feelings anymore.

- And most importantly, it will obviously be addressed at some point, and by now, it's very unlikely that Naruto's answer will be "thanks but not interested".

Seriously, development in the romance sub-plot is slow, took over 400 chapters for Hinata to confess, Naruto can take a few 100s too.


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## Aeiou (May 27, 2011)

Funniest thing is she doesn't even love him. She's just infatuated.


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## Omnipotent Pirate (May 27, 2011)

edelweiss said:


> Oh, I'm not saying she's immature in all respects, but that she is in the love realm. ^^;
> She reminds me very much of a girl who goes back to an abusive guy even after everything is said and done, and it is hard to understand why, especially when in real life women who actually do this are not always dumb, just..who knows! I don't really *know* the complete explanation of the situation from personal experience, but I know psychology can explain it. But I'm not going that far into it. Lol.



I do agree. Though she does understand that her feelings aren't healthy at least. I'm hoping to see her fight off those feelings instead of just waiting till sasuke's on the good side and forgiving him for attemted murder. though forgiveness for attemted murder does happen a lot in the manga, i noticed.


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## Bellville (May 27, 2011)

Fay said:


> Whatever happened to Karin btw? I recall her not dying? *hasn't read the manga in over a year*



She's not relevant anymore. She doesn't want to touch Sasuke with a 10 foot pole. She's been captured by Konoha and put under interrogation, and that's the last anyone's seen of her.


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## krazyefra (May 27, 2011)

Iamacloud said:


> What's so terrible about NH?
> 
> Hinata's confession not being addressed yet? Actually the best thing that could happen.
> 
> ...


Wow, really where's the proof of Naruto's feelings for Hinata? Oh wait, your proof is only a fanfic.


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## Kyu (May 27, 2011)

I'll tell you this right now I just lost a shitload of respect for sakura last chapter...


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## First Tsurugi (May 27, 2011)

Iamacloud said:


> What's so terrible about NH?
> 
> Hinata's confession not being addressed yet? Actually the best thing that could happen.
> 
> ...



See this is very clearly you rationalizing bad writing to make it seem not as bad.

I will admit that NH is probably the least fucked up out of the Big 3 but that has more due to with the other two competitors going full fucking retard than anything.


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## Kage (May 27, 2011)

NH is just underdeveloped and underwhelming. relatively harmless compared to the others. the fanbase doesn't do much to help either but every fandom has theirs i suppose.


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## Summers (May 27, 2011)

Silly me I thought we already had 2 threads on this already. Guess not.


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## Renyou (May 27, 2011)

Iamacloud said:


> I'm flabergasted that people still try to defend NaruSaku after it has been confirmed (was already apparent in 469, but now it's canon) that she tried to manipulate him through his feelings for her. That's just low, and I don't get why people would want Naruto to end up with her still.
> 
> If something even remotely close to this happened to NH, I'd stop supporting it lol.



This coming from someone who defends SasuSaku.


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## Iamacloud (May 27, 2011)

First Tsurugi said:


> See this is very clearly you rationalizing bad writing to make it seem not as bad.
> 
> I will admit that NH is probably the least fucked up out of the Big 3 but that's more due to the fact that the other two competitors have gone full fucking retard.



What's rationalizing in there? That was my opinion when Hinata confessed, and still is today...

I would only say NaruSaku went full retard if Sakura's actions didn't lead Naruto to reconsider his feelings for her, and, conveniently, the last confirmation of Naruto's feelings for Sakura predates Hinata's confession. Sai's flashback was shown later, but the events in that flashback were from BEFORE Hinata's confession (intact village is proof of that).

Kinda convenient don't you think? 



Kage said:


> nothing is terrible about NH. it's just underdeveloped and underwhelming. relatively harmless compared to the others. the fanbase doesn't do much to help either but every fandom has theirs i suppose.



Well since it's likely to happen now, expect more development in the future. Wouldn't take long for NH to have more development than any other pairings, especially considering that the recent revelations show that many (if not all) NaruSaku moments (which were always ambiguous, in a could be romantic, could be just friendship kinda way) were not considered romantic development by Sakura and Naruto. 



Renyou said:


> This coming from someone who defends SasuSaku.



Wait... what? I don't give a shit about SasuSaku... And my interpretation of Sakura's feelings was confirmed to be the right one with 469-474-540. Just because I used that to argue against NS doesn't mean I support SS lol.

Although, in a sick way, Sakura and Sasuke do deserve each other...


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## edelweiss (May 27, 2011)

LeeTheG7 said:


> You say tomato I say TomAto. what you said in the first paragraph about being avg. or whatever I already addressed I said there are lots of stupid girls out there and Sakura represents that. So I don't see where we disagree.
> There is a difference between books smart and being actually smart or wise. Sakura hasn't shown once to be anything other then book smart. See and the last part is the opposite for me. I see her choice of men one of the big reasons she is stupid.



I'm saying being stupid isn't average, but that being average is average. I brought up the "subjective" bit because it's your opinion that average = stupid, and it's not an actual universal fact, whereas what I was saying is cold hard fact, void of opinion. Like you said, toe-may-toh vs tom-ah-toe. I was just saying that the fruit I agreed with was the one most closely adhered to logic. ^^;

I agree with "there is a difference between books smart and being actually smart or wise", but I believe that Sakura is book smart _and_ intelligent (shown in her cold hard and non-emotion influenced reasoning ability), but does not have enough maturity/experience/insert choice word here to be wise. Then again, her personality type (ExFJ, Myer Briggs) is considered to be inherently anti-wise, which could be a major factor.


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## edelweiss (May 27, 2011)

KyuubiV3 said:


> I'll tell you this right now I just lost a shitload of respect for sakura last chapter...



Why is that?


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## Arles Celes (May 27, 2011)

NaruHina is cute IMO but severely underdeveloped.

It isn't as much that Naruto doesn't give a damn about her than the fact that she is a minor character in this manga to whom Kishi gives just a bit more panel time than to TenTen.

I find it also quite annoying that her whole existence and purpose in this manga seems to be centering around Naruto. Her bond with Kiba and Shino had been completely wasted and hardly(to put it mildly) explored.

While it is true that Sasuke's whole purpose is revenge, at the very least he is a main character who gets a lot of panel time, fights, power ups, AND his bond with Naruto HAS potential...despite being so one sided in part 2.

Hinata can hardly claim any of that....


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## WhiteRider40 (May 27, 2011)

Omnipotent Pirate said:


> People are probably more forgiving of murder attempts in the ninja world. jiraya threw naruto off a cliff, and they had a good relationship.



I... that's a good point.


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## Kage (May 27, 2011)

Iamacloud said:


> Well since it's likely to happen now, expect more development in the future. Wouldn't take long for NH to have more development than any other pairings, especially considering that the recent revelations show that many (if not all) NaruSaku moments (which were always ambiguous, in a could be romantic, could be just friendship kinda way) were not considered romantic development by neighter Sakura or Naruto.



um hm. 
i wouldn't count on it. i think the best NH is likely to get is an epilogue if that. maybe a lol flashback if you're lucky. still doesn't change the whole _boring_ thing. and um, the issue of naruto's feelings but like hell if i give a shit whether or not you think he has moved on and set his sights on hinata based on such and such etc.


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## LeeTheG7 (May 27, 2011)

edelweiss said:


> I'm saying being stupid isn't average, but that being average is average. I brought up the "subjective" bit because it's your opinion that average = stupid, and it's not an actual universal fact, whereas what I was saying is cold hard fact, void of opinion. Like you said, toe-may-toh vs tom-ah-toe. I was just saying that the fruit I agreed with was the one most closely adhered to logic. ^^;
> 
> I agree with "there is a difference between books smart and being actually smart or wise", but I believe that Sakura is book smart _and_ intelligent (shown in her cold hard and non-emotion influenced reasoning ability), but does not have enough maturity/experience/insert choice word here to be wise. Then again, her personality type (ExFJ, Myer Briggs) is considered to be inherently anti-wise, which could be a major factor.



I really hate it when people try to make there (((((((OPINIONS)))))) as fact. You are saying that Sakura is avg. is an opinion. I kind of agreed because I know lots of girls that are stupid just like Sakura. Stupid because she and some others get beaten, yelled at, and treated like dirt and yet she still likes him. That is not avg to me but stupid I was willing to give you the benefit of the doubt just because half of the girls out there are stupid. However when you try to pass your opinion as fact it just makes you look foolish. I never said all I said was fact. However a girl clinging on to a murderor being avg. is also an opinion .


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## Juk3n (May 27, 2011)

Just curious - do Japanese fans have similar debates like we do here in forums and, if so, do they bring up largely the same points for each pairing? Or are there cultural differences that cause the relationships to be interpreted differently?

The main reason I ask is because I find Sakura's love for Sasuke harder and harder to understand (and I know I'm not the only one here who does) and I was wondering if Japanese forum goers have similar complaints.


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## ovanz (May 27, 2011)

Using a shitty quote FTW!:



ovanz said:


> I don't know about humans relationships, but i doubt what sakura fell for sasuke is called "love", its called obsesion. Can you love someone you barely knew or even spoke or share stuff?
> 
> Its not like they were in a actual relationship, its only the guy she think is atractive and then with more obssesion/ino rivality she confused with the word you call love.
> 
> ...


----------



## Renyou (May 27, 2011)

Iamacloud said:


> Wait... what? I don't give a shit about SasuSaku... And my interpretation of Sakura's feelings was confirmed to be the right one with 469-474-540. Just because I used that to argue against NS doesn't mean I support SS lol.
> 
> Although, in a sick way, Sakura and Sasuke do deserve each other...



If you say so


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## WhiteRider40 (May 27, 2011)

LeeTheG7 said:


> I really hate it when people try to make there (((((((OPINIONS)))))) as fact. You are saying that Sakura is avg. is an opinion. I kind of agreed because I know lots of girls that are stupid just like Sakura. Stupid because she and some others get beaten, yelled at, and treated like dirt and yet she still likes him. That is not avg to me but stupid I was willing to give you the benefit of the doubt just because half of the girls out there are stupid. However when you try to pass your opinion as fact it just makes you look foolish. I never said all I said was fact. However a girl clinging on to a murderor being avg. is also an opinion .



No, you're right.  Most girls don't love murderous rampagers with demon infused super-eyeballs.  It is stupid to hold on to whatever feelings she has towards Sasuke.  It was stupid to not kill him when she had the chance.  But, at least she seems to be reflecting on how Sasuke's a messed up evil dude, which is better than Naruto's current plunge into insanity.

Also: ovanz's self quote explains the situation really well.  No way is the "relationship" between Sasuke and Sakura love.

And tis quite ironic that Kakashi was the most willing to kill Sasuke.  He really was the closest to him.


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## Iamacloud (May 27, 2011)

Arles Celes said:


> NaruHina is cute IMO but severely underdeveloped.
> 
> It isn't as much that Naruto doesn't give a damn about her than the fact that she is a minor character in this manga to whom Kishi gives just a bit more panel time than to TenTen.
> 
> I find it also quite annoying that her whole existence and purpose in this manga seems to be centering around Naruto. Her bond with Kiba and Shino had been completely wasted and hardly(to put it mildly) explored.



Hinata has a backstory, and the Hyuuga clan has a side-story of it's own, she had an impact on two of Naruto's fights. Comparing that to tenten is lulzy.

And while it's true that Naruto has been her motivation, she doesn't rely or cling to him, she's working hard on her own, and has shown in 450 that she would be perfectly fine letting Naruto go if he was happy with someone else.

She has earned Neji's and the rest of her family's respect (even if I hope that she will one day recieve direct acknowledgement from her father, like Chouji got from his dad).

Not sure what more you expected to see from her with Kiba and Shino, I guess more team 8 moments would have been nice.



> While it is true that Sasuke's whole purpose is revenge, at the very least he is a main character who gets a lot of panel time, fights, power ups, AND his bond with Naruto HAS potential...despite being so one sided in part 2.
> 
> Hinata can hardly claim any of that....



You'll never hear me saying Hinata has a bigger spot than Sasuke in this manga, that would be ludicrous.

But she'll still end up with Naruto. 



Renyou said:


> If you say so



Feel free to post example of my "support" for SS, should be funny to see you try to prove that.


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## Bellville (May 27, 2011)

Juk3n said:


> The main reason I ask is because I find Sakura's love for Sasuke harder and harder to understand (and I know I'm not the only one here who does) and I was wondering if Japanese forum goers have similar complaints.


I wonder how this one in particular is perceived as well, but I don't think they debate like we do so unless directly asked I doubt we'll know what the general perception of the bond is.


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## Renyou (May 27, 2011)

She doesn't have to love someone she doesn't want to (Naruto, I mean), but she should at least be rational instead of emotional for a change and let go of Sasuke. Anyone can do it, don't claim it's impossible to get over some guy.

He does not have feelings for her, that should be enough for her to move on. If she's trying to fight for him, that's quite admirable, but there's a limit to how far you should stick with it. That limit was crossed a few hundred chapters ago, and then more after that.

You can blame that on Naruto, who keeps shooting his own foot by keeping her hope to get with Sasuke alive. He must be a masochist or something.


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## son_michael (May 27, 2011)

The problem with Naru hina is...it started as a one sided crush and then DISSAPEARED for like 300 chapters... and during and before this time...Naruto never showed 1 bit of a romantic interest in hinata. He liked her as a friend, THATS IT. Then Hinata actually sacrifices herself for him, confesses and he doesn't even acknowledge her confession. 

There's also the teeny itty bitty problem of Naruto loving Sakura....but hey that's just minor, Naruto's feelings will change. Oh wait...didn't you guys say Sakura's feelings can't change?

yea...


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## ajinko (May 27, 2011)

^ too long to read but guessing a narusaku rant. naruto has shown that he does care for hinata during the battle with pain he wondered if she was allright and cried when he found otu she was allright. hinata also knew naruto was checking up on her. the question is we idn't geta respinse from hinatas confession yet. that doesn't mean naruto ignored her ore thna ikely it will be shown in a flsahback or in the future becasue maybe kishsi want to settle narusaku and sasusaku deal first.


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## Kyu (May 27, 2011)

edelweiss said:


> Why is that?



What do you think...


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## erivar (May 27, 2011)

It's not relevant to the plot so what does it matter?

Plus, if there wasn't all that foreshadowing and genre tropes that predicts Sakura will end up with Naruto, i would say, she shouldn't switch to Naruto either because i like them as friends and think that would be a more interesting conclusion.


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## Renyou (May 27, 2011)

Poo Bear said:


> Sasuke doesn't see Sakura that way not because he feels nothing for her but because he doesn't know how to see her that way.



There's no proof of that in the manga, so it's a moot point.



> And Sakura only knows half of what he's going through.



He brought that onto himself, so she shouldn't feel sympathy by knowing the whole story. And he tried to kill her without hesitating and without remorse, which to any victim would be unforgivable.


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## Reddan (May 27, 2011)

Romance may not be Kishimoto's strong point, but I think he still gets his idea across. Sakura started off having a shallow crush on Sasuke, because on the surface he is what most girls dream for in boyfriend; very handsome, intelligent, from a prominent family, rich, strong, popular and very talented.

However, as they spent more time together her feelings developed. She began to genuinely fall for the person. She saw his faults and his weaknesses, but also his kinder self-sacrificing moments.

Her still not falling in love with Naruto is proof of how she has changed. If she was still that shallow girl she would have switched from Naruto to Sasuke. Naruto is now the handsome, rich, famous, popular and super strong hero. 

The fact that she still loves Sasuke is not a lack of growth, but the sign she has grown.


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## Mikaveli (May 27, 2011)

Lol            Sakura.


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## N120 (May 27, 2011)

Super Pervert said:


> what is it gonna take for her to stop loving Sasuke..I mean seriosuly, he tried to kill her..why does she love him...WHY!?



Maybe it's not sasuke that she's really in love with, but rather the thrill of chasing after something ideal, something that she will never really get. she's a fangirl.

it's like FPS fans who dont really want real guns and violence on their street but love playing CoD or Halo and shooting imaginary enemies. 

or beiber fans, they know they'll never get a look in but they'll buy his cd's anyway, turn up outside his house in the pouring rain screaming for him to look at them only to feint and froth at the mouth when he does peep out of his window, or send him love letters(spam mail) for what? theres really no reason for 99.% of them to go through all that but they still do.


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## ajinko (May 27, 2011)

thank you arednad. QFT.


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## NarutoIzDaMan (May 27, 2011)

arednad said:


> The fact that she still loves Sasuke is not a lack of growth, but the sign she has grown.



So let me get this straight, continuing to love someone in a "romantic" light even after they attempted to KILL your ass twice in cold blood is a sign of growth? 

​
To answer the OP's question, it will probably take a similar scenario  like this one for Sakura to TRULY wake up and drop any leftover "romantic" attachments that she is still holding onto for Sasuke......maybe.


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## Agent of Death/Ergo Proxy (May 27, 2011)

arednad said:


> Romance may not be Kishimoto's strong point, but I think he still gets his idea across. Sakura started off having a shallow crush on Sasuke, because on the surface he is what most girls dream for in boyfriend; very handsome, intelligent, from a prominent family, rich, strong, popular and very talented.
> 
> However, as they spent more time together her feelings developed. She began to genuinely fall for the person. She saw his faults and his weaknesses, but also his kinder self-sacrificing moments.
> 
> ...



Wait... What


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## ajinko (May 27, 2011)

what he is trying to say that is sakura is not as fickle as autumn skies. she loves sasuke for genuine reasons and she is not so shallow as to move on to the next popular guy.

if u guys can't stand the fact that sakura still loves sasuke then just deal with it.


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## Renyou (May 27, 2011)

arednad said:


> Her still not falling in love with Naruto is proof of how she has changed. If she was still that shallow girl she would have switched from Naruto to Sasuke. Naruto is now the handsome, rich, famous, popular and super strong hero.



Err, I'm going to assume you didn't mean that literally. Because Naruto has aways been there for her, he's not just the "popular guy". He's a precious childhood friend, and her falling in love with him would be perfectly understandable.



> The fact that she still loves Sasuke is not a lack of growth, but the sign she has grown.



The events at the Kage Summit beg to differ.


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## ajinko (May 27, 2011)

^ always been there for her doesn't necessarily mean u have to fall in love with guy. sheesh...............i don't know why u guys are blaming saura she did try to kill him out of love of not seeing him plunder deeper into darkness but she couldn't do it for the same reasons.

she believes that sasuke can turn around. so deal with it.


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## Renyou (May 27, 2011)

ajinko said:


> ^ always been there for her doesn't necessarily mean u have to fall in love with guy. sheesh...............



That's funny, because I never said that. In fact, I said the exact opposite in the previous page:



Me said:


> She doesn't have to love someone she doesn't want to (Naruto, I mean),



All I'm pointing out is that if she did fall for Naruto, it would not be for shallow reasons like you guys were claiming.


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## ajinko (May 27, 2011)

^ she knows naruto has feelings for her. even  after knowing that for so long she still loves sasuke. don't tell me she is going to magically start falling in love with naruto.


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## Renyou (May 27, 2011)

ajinko said:


> ^ she knows naruto has feelings for her. even  after knowing that for so long she still loves sasuke. don't tell me she is going to magically start falling in love with naruto.



She's still young, there isn't a rule saying she can't move on with time. Also, she didn't know Naruto had feelings for her until Sai told her.


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## N120 (May 27, 2011)

NS doesnt work imo, trust me! i read all the fanfics on the pairing and  covers all the angles to such a relationship and its doomed for failure,  plus SS fanart look nice.


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## Reddan (May 27, 2011)

Renyou said:


> Err, I'm going to assume you didn't mean that literally. Because Naruto has aways been there for her, he's not just the "popular guy". He's a precious childhood friend, and her falling in love with him would be perfectly understandable.



Look at the reasons she gives for "falling in love with Naruto."
Link removed

Apart from him having always been there for they are all superficial reasons. In fact they are the same reasons why a SHALLOW person would love Naruto. He is the Hero of the village, beloved by everyone, a great and important man. To call Sakura's love of Sasuke shallow is to ignore the manga.



> The events at the Kage Summit beg to differ.


Growing as a character does not mean your growth has been completed. She made mistakes at the kage summit.




NarutoIzDaMan said:


> So let me get this straight, continuing to love someone in a "romantic" light even after they attempted to KILL your ass twice in cold blood is a sign of growth?



First of all it should be clear to everyone Sasuke was bluffing at Orochimaru's hideout. He never intended to kill any of them. The next time we see him he pretty much confirms he only kills "evil" people and is not going to hand his body to Orochimaru.

Second I think people forget Sakura actually tried to kill him too. This is not  a normal situation. Sasuke cannot be compared to an abusive boyfriend since they are fundamentally different. An abusive boyfriend hurts those he professes to love. Sasuke on the other hand goes to extreme lengths for the people he loves. 

In then end you cannot help, who you love. It is not a sign of growth to change your feelings. Even after all Orochimaru had done, Hiruzen still loved him.

However, you can demonstrate your growth by acting despite of your feelings. The first time Sakura just like Hiruzen could  not bring themselves to kill someone they had once and still did love. However, Hiruzen in time was able to overcome the strong feelings he once had for his student and try and kill Orochimaru. In the same way Jiraiya was prepared to kill Tsunade if she betrayed Konoha, though she was the love of his life.

It should not be about how you feel, but being able to act despite your feelings.


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## Agent of Death/Ergo Proxy (May 27, 2011)

N120 said:


> NS doesnt work imo, trust me! i read all the fanfics on the pairing and  covers all the angles to such a relationship and its doomed for failure,  plus SS fanart look nice.


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## Kyu (May 27, 2011)

N120 said:


> NS doesnt work imo, trust me!* i read all the fanfics on the pairing and  covers all the angles to such a relationship and its doomed for failure*,  plus SS fanart look nice.



The same can be said for SS, whats your point...


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## N120 (May 27, 2011)

KyuubiV3 said:


> The same can be said for SS, whats your point...



shut up, SS is nothing like NS! I swear you lot are winding me up, just stop it!


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## Renyou (May 27, 2011)

arednad said:


> Look at the reasons she gives for "falling in love with Naruto."
> Link removed
> 
> Apart from him having always been there for they are all superficial reasons. In fact they are the same reasons why a SHALLOW person would love Naruto.



Duh. It's a fake confession, what do you expect? She doesn't mean any of that.



> First of all it should be clear to everyone Sasuke was bluffing at Orochimaru's hideout. He never intended to kill any of them. The next time we see him he pretty much confirms he only kills "evil" people and is not going to hand his body to Orochimaru.



Whether he was bluffing or not is debatable. Yamato sensed real killing intent when he was about to attack Sakura back then.



> Second I think people forget Sakura actually tried to kill him too.



The difference is that Sakura was actually hesitating and it was killing her inside having to do that. Sasuke not only did not hesitate, but it didn't bother him one bit afterwards. In fact, he cared so little that he tried to do it twice.



> This is not  a normal situation. Sasuke cannot be compared to an abusive boyfriend since they are fundamentally different. An abusive boyfriend hurts those he professes to love. Sasuke on the other hand goes to extreme lengths for the people he loves.



Sasuke is nothing but a crazy psychopath who is using his family as an excuse to lash out on others. Like I said, he deserves no sympathy from Sakura, let alone her love.



> In then end you cannot help, who you love. It is not a sign of growth to change your feelings. Even after all Orochimaru had done, Hiruzen still loved him.



You can be rational and work yourself towards getting over it. If you let your emotions get the best of you, you're just going to end up doing stupid things like Sakura did on the Kage Summit.



> It should not be about how you feel, but being able to act despite your feelings.



Which Sakura is unable to do, which shows complete lack of character growth.


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## Kyu (May 27, 2011)

N120 said:


> shut up, SS is nothing like NS! I swear you lot are winding me up, just stop it!



You trollin bro...


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## Reddan (May 27, 2011)

Renyou said:


> Duh. It's a fake confession, what do you expect? She doesn't mean any of that.


You miss the point. A shallow person would simply switch to Naruto. Naruto now at face value has all the qualities that made her develop a crush on Sasuke. If she had a superficial love for Sasuke based on his popularity then it she would feel the same for Naruto. However, she does not. Her reasons for loving Sasuke are not shallow ones.


> Whether he was bluffing or not is debatable. Yamato sensed real killing intent when he was about to attack Sakura back then.


Sasuke made it VERY CLEAR he was not going to kill innocents. He spared the CS2 prisoners and even refused to kill Kabuto. He ordered his team to not kill anyone and then later tried to avoid any confrontation with Konoha.



> The difference is that Sakura was actually hesitating and it was killing her inside having to do that. Sasuke not only did not hesitate, but it didn't bother him one bit afterwards. In fact, he cared so little that he tried to do it twice.


I thought the problem was the attempted murder? You have moved the goal post now. Sakura tried to kill Sasuke. At this current moment they are enemies.



> Sasuke is nothing but a crazy psychopath who is using his family as an excuse to lash out on others. Like I said, she deserves no sympathy from Sakura, let alone her love.


This is partly true, but Sasuke is also justified in wanting justice. His family were wiped out by Konoha and Itachi took the blame. However, love is not something you earn. What did you do as a baby to earn your parents love? 


> You can be rational and work yourself towards getting over it. If you let your emotions get the best of you, you're just going to end up doing stupid things like Sakura did on the Kage Summit.


It depends on what you mean by getting over it. If you mean living your life and carrying on then yes, but this does not mean the feelings will necessarily disappear. Sakura actually tried to do what she thought was right. She tried to be rational and make a sacrifice for the greater good of the world. She still lacked the necessary strength to carry it out.



> Which Sakura is unable to do, which shows complete lack of character growth.


This makes no sense. Just, because a character is not yet perfect does not mean he has not grown. Even Hiruzen a kage and legend only learnt this lesson before his death.

Danzo only learnt a TRUE LEADER must be prepared to sacrifice himself at his death. 

Sakura' has grown, but her growth is not complete. She has gone from caring about a persons popularity and strength to caring about their character. She has gone from standing back and depending on Naruto to trying to do things herself. Her growth, however, is not yet complete. It was only 10 chapters or so ago that we saw Chouji grow further.


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## AMtrack (May 27, 2011)

Lol its obvious..for Sakura to love Naruto something drastic would have to happen to him.  Because im lazy, the ultimate trololol (please Kishi do it) would be a copy/paste of Hinata's confessoin scene..except instead of Pein vs Naruto its Sasuke vs Naruto.  Then have Sakura jump in and remind Naruto that "i meant it when I said I love you" and run to get pwnd.  She could even use a flashback of Hinata's confession to motivate her to jump in there.

It would be the PERFECT troll.  Like the ultimate troll.  Im probably gonna get negged to oblivion now but idc.  Do it Kishi, NF would be full of lulz.


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## Supa Swag (May 27, 2011)

so how long before this topic is locked?





arednad said:


> It was only 10 chapters or so ago that we saw Chouji grow further.



By gosh, that one was a hoot. Textbook example of shoehorned and lazy development.


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## Reddan (May 27, 2011)

Supa Swag said:


> By gosh, that one was a hoot. Textbook example of shoehorned and lazy development.



Chouji at best is a side character. If you were writing a list of the 30 most important characters, he would be lucky to make it. You want Kisihimoto to dedicate 40 chapters on Chouji?


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## Renyou (May 27, 2011)

arednad said:


> You miss the point. A shallow person would simply switch to Naruto. Naruto now at face value has all the qualities that made her develop a crush on Sasuke. If she had a superficial love for Sasuke based on his popularity then it she would feel the same for Naruto. However, she does not. Her reasons for loving Sasuke are not shallow ones.



And you miss the point that Naruto means a lot more to Sakura than just being the popular guy. Read the Sai & Sasuke arc again to see how far she's willing to go for him.

Also, we don't know anything about her reasons for loving Sasuke. Simply claiming it's not shallow isn't going to take you anywhere. All we know is that it started as a shallow crush.



> Sasuke made it VERY CLEAR he was not going to kill innocents. He spared the CS2 prisoners and even refused to kill Kabuto. He ordered his team to not kill anyone and then later tried to avoid any confrontation with Konoha.



The prisioners and Kabuto weren't standing in the way of his goals. Team 7, at that time, was.



> I thought the problem was the attempted murder? You have moved the goal post now. Sakura tried to kill Sasuke. At this current moment they are enemies.



If you just take murder into consideration, nobody is ever wrong in this manga.



> This is partly true, but Sasuke is also justified in wanting justice. His family were wiped out by Konoha and Itachi took the blame. However, love is not something you earn. What did you do as a baby to earn your parents love?



No, he's not. He wants to wipe out the entirety of Konoha, because he believes they are living comfortably at the cost of Itachi's life. Innocent people are getting dragged into this, that's how far he has gone.

Also, it's unfortunate that you compared parental love with romantic love. It's apples and oranges. And yes, you do have to earn being loved by someone in a romantic way. Relationships are based on both parties, not just one.




> It depends on what you mean by getting over it. If you mean living your life and carrying on then yes, but this does not mean the feelings will necessarily disappear. Sakura actually tried to do what she thought was right. She tried to be rational and make a sacrifice for the greater good of the world. She still lacked the necessary strength to carry it out.



She can have lingering feelings, that wouldn't stop her from being in love again with someone else.

And no, what she did wasn't rational in any meaning of the word. She might have thought it was, but ultimately she was just acting out of emotions yet again.

BECAUSE SHE LOVES HIM, 'nuff said.



> This makes no sense. Just, because a character is not yet perfect does not mean he has not grown. Even Hiruzen a kage and legend only learnt this lesson before his death.
> 
> Danzo only learnt a TRUE LEADER must be prepared to sacrifice himself at his death.
> 
> Sakura' has grown, but her growth is not complete. She has gone from caring about a persons popularity and strength to caring about their character. She has gone from standing back and depending on Naruto to trying to do things herself. Her growth, however, is not yet complete. It was only 10 chapters or so ago that we saw Chouji grow further.



She has had a bit of growth, but not much. She's still a very emotional girl.


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## SSGG (May 27, 2011)

arednad said:


> Romance may not be Kishimoto's strong point, but I think he still gets his idea across. Sakura started off having a shallow crush on Sasuke, because on the surface he is what most girls dream for in boyfriend; very handsome, intelligent, from a prominent family, rich, strong, popular and very talented.
> 
> However, as they spent more time together her feelings developed. She began to genuinely fall for the person. She saw his faults and his weaknesses, but also his kinder self-sacrificing moments.
> 
> ...


 
Wow, that's a really good point...

It's funny how when she "confessed" to Naruto, she was pretty much trying to convince him that she still was that same shallow fangirl we saw at the beginning of the manga(when she obviously wasn't like that anymore).


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## Supa Swag (May 27, 2011)

arednad said:


> Chouji at best is a side character. If you were writing a list of the 30 most important characters, he would be lucky to make it. You want Kisihimoto to dedicate 40 chapters on Chouji?



I wanted him to kill Chouji when he had the chance to end his character on the highest note. But apparently we can't have the younglings die so...

personally I'd prefer he not bother with Chouji at all over lazy retreads, but its his manga so whatever.


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## Bellville (May 27, 2011)

Looks like I'll be making some new additions to my ignore list.


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## Reddan (May 27, 2011)

Renyou said:


> And you miss the point that Naruto means a lot more to Sakura than just being the popular guy. Read the Sai & Sasuke arc again to see how far she's willing to go for him.


Of course Naruto means a lot more to Sakura than just being the popular guy, they are very close friends. Once again you fail to address my point. Naruto at this current moment has all of the superficial qualities young Sasuke had, more even. Yet Sakura is not in love with him. In fact their roles have been completely reversed. Naruto is the beloved hero and Sasuke is the hated outcast. Yet her feelings have not changed.



> Also, we don't know anything about her reasons for loving Sasuke. Simply claiming it's not shallow isn't going to take you anywhere. All we know is that it started as a shallow crush.


No it is simple logic. If she loves Sasuke for shallow reasons then they would have disappeared once those things vanished. Sasuke is not popular he is hated, he is not respect by everyone he is an international criminal. Having a relationship with him will not be a badge of honour, but one of disgrace.

Further more from just reading the manga you should soon realise Sasuke teaches Sakura to be kinder to others. It is Sasuke's attitude to Naruto, which makes her rethink the way she treats others. It is also Sasuke, who makes her grow up and understand what is truly important in life. 


> The prisioners and Kabuto weren't standing in the way of his goals. Team 7, at that time, was.


The CS2 prisoners were standing in his way. The were blocking his path to Juugo. Team 7 were not a threat to him and he handled them easily. The manga states it on several occasions he will only kill evil people.
Link removed
Link removed
Link removed
Link removed

Really I don't think Kishimoto could drive the point home any further. Sasuke did not plan on killing anyone he did not consider evil.


> If you just take murder into consideration, nobody is ever wrong in this manga.


Not sure what you mean here. The point was raised how Sasuke attempted to kill Sakura, but I mentioned they glossed over the fact she came to kill him first.


> No, he's not. He wants to wipe out the entirety of Konoha, because he believes they are living comfortably at the cost of Itachi's life. Innocent people are getting dragged into this, that's how far he has gone.


Sasuke is wrong, but Konoha treated the Uchiha clan in a similar fashion. They wiped out the entire clan not caring about innocents. They even intended to kill Sasuke and probably would have done so at some point had Itachi not warned Danzo.


> Also, it's unfortunate that you compared parental love with romantic love. It's apples and oranges. And yes, you do have to earn being loved by someone in a romantic way. Relationships are based on both parties, not just one.


Love is not something that you can win. It is something which is given by the other person. To have a relationship means both parties have to work at it, but just because you wont remain in a relationship with someone does not mean you have stopped loving them.


> She can have lingering feelings, that wouldn't stop her from being in love again with someone else.


Maybe, but there is no guarantee the love she felt for the new person would ever be greater than what she felt for Sasuke.



> And no, what she did wasn't rational in any meaning of the word. She might have thought it was, but ultimately she was just acting out of emotions yet again.
> 
> BECAUSE SHE LOVES HIM, 'nuff said.


She was acting for many reasons. Yes she wanted to kill him, because she loved him, but she also thought it was her duty. Shikamaru explained to her how Sasuke was going to start a war and she felt she had to be the one to take him down/


> She has had a bit of growth, but not much. She's still a very emotional girl.


Well what is wrong with that. Some people have one defining moment, which completely changes their characters, whilst others change gradually over time.


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## Random Nobody (May 27, 2011)

It's gonna take Kishi taking the time to actually try to do a good job at writing her character and suddenly developing the ability to write believable romantic relationships.

In other words, she's fucked.


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## Renyou (May 27, 2011)

arednad said:


> Of course Naruto means a lot more to Sakura than just being the popular guy, they are very close friends. Once again you fail to address my point. Naruto at this current moment has all of the superficial qualities young Sasuke had, more even. Yet Sakura is not in love with him. In fact their roles have been completely reversed. Naruto is the beloved hero and Sasuke is the hated outcast. Yet her feelings have not changed.



It's irrelevant to compare current Naruto to beginning of Part 1 Sasuke, you don't seem to get this. Sasuke didn't mean as much to Sakura at first as Naruto does now to her. With Sasuke back then, all she had was a shallow crush on the pretty boy, while current Naruto is someone she loves and wants to protect.

It doesn't matter if Naruto has the same status that Sasuke did. That won't be a reason for Sakura to fall for him. She doesn't love Naruto as more than a friend currently, but it wouldn't be shallow if she grew to love him romantically enventually. It's not a rule that it has to happen right away for it to not be considered shallow.



> No it is simple logic. If she loves Sasuke for shallow reasons then they would have disappeared once those things vanished. Sasuke is not popular he is hated, he is not respect by everyone he is an international criminal. Having a relationship with him will not be a badge of honour, but one of disgrace.



Yet there are no panels that show her thinking any of that. What I've seen is Sakura putting Naruto above Sasuke in importance. Probably the only rational aspect of the circus she pulled.



> Further more from just reading the manga you should soon realise Sasuke teaches Sakura to be kinder to others. It is Sasuke's attitude to Naruto, which makes her rethink the way she treats others. It is also Sasuke, who makes her grow up and understand what is truly important in life.



So, Sasuke insults her once and she gets something out of it. While Naruto, the guy who constantly cheers her up and motivates her to go on fighting when Sasuke left her in the abyss gets no credit. Sorry, I'm still not convinced.



> The CS2 prisoners were standing in his way. The were blocking his path to Juugo. Team 7 were not a threat to him and he handled them easily. The manga states it on several occasions he will only kill evil people.
> Link removed
> Link removed
> Link removed
> ...



Team 7 was a threat to him alright. Very different from the small fry he was knocking out up to that point, and they had no intention to let Sasuke go. They were still very much capable of fighting when he threatened to use Kirin, only Yamato was down.

Besides, there really isn't a point in arguing about the Sasuke from that time. It's the Sasuke from now that matters.



> Not sure what you mean here. The point was raised how Sasuke attempted to kill Sakura, but I mentioned they glossed over the fact she came to kill him first.



What I mean is that the reasons do matter. Just labeling it as murder puts them all on the same level, which simply isn't true in this case.



> Sasuke is wrong, but Konoha treated the Uchiha clan in a similar fashion. They wiped out the entire clan not caring about innocents. They even intended to kill Sasuke and probably would have done so at some point had Itachi not warned Danzo.



Danzo and the Elders planned the massacre, not Konoha. They alone should be pursued, and even that is still wrong in a way, since it goes against Itachi's wishes.



> Love is not something that you can win. It is something which is given by the other person. To have a relationship means both parties have to work at it, but just because you wont remain in a relationship with someone does not mean you have stopped loving them.



With a reason. You don't just love someone because you do, whoever claims that has never been in love before. Since there's a reason, it automatically means that that person did something to earn it. And to continue to earn it, the same person has to live up to the other's expectations. If not, the relationship falls apart.



> Maybe, but there is no guarantee the love she felt for the new person would ever be greater than what she felt for Sasuke.



But I can guarantee you it's going to be much healthier.



> She was acting for many reasons. Yes she wanted to kill him, because she loved him, but she also thought it was her duty. Shikamaru explained to her how Sasuke was going to start a war and she felt she had to be the one to take him down



It all comes down to her love for him. That was the main reason.



> Well what is wrong with that. Some people have one defining moment, which completely changes their characters, whilst others change gradually over time.



The problem is the amount of time Sakura is taking. For being the main heroine, it's about time she got a defining moment already. If she manages to defeat one of the big four all by herself, I'll be satisfied.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (May 27, 2011)

ajinko said:


> ^ she knows naruto has feelings for her. even  after knowing that for so long she still loves sasuke. don't tell me she is going to magically start falling in love with naruto.





ajinko said:


> ^ always been there for her doesn't necessarily mean u have to fall in love with guy. sheesh...............i don't know why u guys are blaming saura she did try to kill him out of love of not seeing him plunder deeper into darkness but she couldn't do it for the same reasons.
> 
> she believes that sasuke can turn around. so deal with it.



You're such a massive hypocrite. You go on about how bad and contrived it'd be for Sakura to start looking Naruto's way, yet you want or expect Naruto to start paying attention to Hinata, and if only for that reason support Sasuke and Sakura together as well despite the fact that Sasuke was disinterested before and has tried to kill her more recently. 

She doesn't believe Sasuke can turn around so much as she believes in Naruto who believes in Sasuke. She's given up on him three times in the story already, and has had to have the faith restored by Naruto or someone else..



arednad said:


> Of course Naruto means a lot more to Sakura than just being the popular guy, they are very close friends. Once again you fail to address my point. Naruto at this current moment has all of the superficial qualities young Sasuke had, more even. Yet Sakura is not in love with him. In fact their roles have been completely reversed. Naruto is the beloved hero and Sasuke is the hated outcast. Yet her feelings have not changed.



If Sakura ever falls for Naruto, it's pretty clear it won't be because he's the popular guy now. Your previous statement on the fact that she doesn't love him even now is proof of her growth is pretty much crap. The matter of her being in love with Naruto is irrelevant to her growth, it'd just be something that happens, it isn't a necessary development. However, her remaining infatuated with Sasuke is relevant to the state of her character, and her persisting infatuation is damaging to her growth and character as whole.



> No it is simple logic. If she loves Sasuke for shallow reasons then they would have disappeared once those things vanished. Sasuke is not popular he is hated, he is not respect by everyone he is an international criminal. Having a relationship with him will not be a badge of honour, but one of disgrace.



She still holds to the ideal of Sasuke, but has in a way come to terms that it is not the real him. It's clear her infatuation causes her pain and suffering, and it's clear that it is destructive to her character.



> Further more from just reading the manga you should soon realise Sasuke teaches Sakura to be kinder to others. It is Sasuke's attitude to Naruto, which makes her rethink the way she treats others. It is also Sasuke, who makes her grow up and understand what is truly important in life.



Sasuke let her know how clueless she was about Naruto's situation, but it wasn't out of the kindness of his heart (towards her). She said something insensitive, and it irritated him and he berated her for it. Her crush on Sasuke has actually inhibited her growth, as was clearly displayed in Part I. It's when she began considering the team as a whole did she have moments of significant development. 



> The CS2 prisoners were standing in his way. The were blocking his path to Juugo. Team 7 were not a threat to him and he handled them easily. The manga states it on several occasions he will only kill evil people.
> Link removed
> Link removed
> Link removed
> Link removed



That was all before he went completely evil, but still evil. He'll kill whomever now, and he was going to kill the team at Oro's hideout. 



> Really I don't think Kishimoto could drive the point home any further. Sasuke did not plan on killing anyone he did not consider evil.



He's killed the samurai, tried to kill Karin, Naruto, Sakura, and Kakashi as well as Killer Bee. Just because he may not have succeeded with the named characters does not take away from the fact that he tried to take their lives. Furthermore, the samurai were a neutral party that were protecting someone assigned under their protection. Sasuke could've disabled them non-lethally, but he chose to kill them because he merely wished to.



> Not sure what you mean here. The point was raised how Sasuke attempted to kill Sakura, but I mentioned they glossed over the fact she came to kill him first.



Because it's like Konohamaru attacking Sarutobi. In his prime.



> Sasuke is wrong, but Konoha treated the Uchiha clan in a similar fashion. They wiped out the entire clan not caring about innocents. They even intended to kill Sasuke and probably would have done so at some point had Itachi not warned Danzo.



That's crap. The villagers respected and admired the Uchiha. They didn't wipe out the clan, Itachi did under the orders of Danzo and the Elders, whom should be punished and one whom is already dead. 



> Love is not something that you can win. It is something which is given by the other person. To have a relationship means both parties have to work at it, but just because you wont remain in a relationship with someone does not mean you have stopped loving them.



Well, Sakura's in a lot of trouble seeing as the guy she loves has tried to kill her on more than one occassion, and even before had no interest in her romantic advances. 



> Maybe, but there is no guarantee the love she felt for the new person would ever be greater than what she felt for Sasuke.



Intensity of feelings and solidarity of feelings are not necessarily intertwined. Getting over Sasuke does not mean the next guy, if a guy or anyone at all, will be loved less by her. It means she's learned from her prior experiences and is carrying on the lessons learned to enrich herself and life. 



> She was acting for many reasons. Yes she wanted to kill him, because she loved him, but she also thought it was her duty. Shikamaru explained to her how Sasuke was going to start a war and she felt she had to be the one to take him down/



She overestimated her importance not only to the situation but in regards to Sasuke as well. 



> Well what is wrong with that. Some people have one defining moment, which completely changes their characters, whilst others change gradually over time.



What Renyou stated.


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## Reddan (May 28, 2011)

Renyou said:


> It's irrelevant to compare current Naruto to beginning of Part 1 Sasuke, you don't seem to get this. Sasuke didn't mean as much to Sakura at first as Naruto does now to her. With Sasuke back then, all she had was a shallow crush on the pretty boy, while current Naruto is someone she loves and wants to protect.
> 
> It doesn't matter if Naruto has the same status that Sasuke did. That won't be a reason for Sakura to fall for him. She doesn't love Naruto as more than a friend currently, but it wouldn't be shallow if she grew to love him romantically enventually. It's not a rule that it has to happen right away for it to not be considered shallow.


I will explain this one more time. If Sakura was the same shallow girl she was at the start then she would be in love with Naruto NOW. This is nothing to do with whether she falls in love with him in the future. I am not saying if she falls for Naruto in the future it HAS to be for shallow reasons. I am saying if she only loved people for shallow reasons, like when she was a younger, she would ALREADY be in love with Naruto.

If she only loved Sasuke romantically for his status and popularity then she would not love him now. He has no popularity or status.

Naruto has all the popularity and status. The shallow Sakura at the start of the series would have have switched. 



> Yet there are no panels that show her thinking any of that. What I've seen is Sakura putting Naruto above Sasuke in importance. Probably the only rational aspect of the circus she pulled.


I am not sure she ever truly put Naruto above Sasuke in importance even then. One of her aims was to kill Sasuke to stop him falling even further. She thought this would lead to Naruto hating her, but she was prepared to do it. Yes it was partly to save Naruto from the pain, partly to stop world war, but also to save Sasuke from himself.


> So, Sasuke insults her once and she gets something out of it. While Naruto, the guy who constantly cheers her up and motivates her to go on fighting when Sasuke left her in the abyss gets no credit. Sorry, I'm still not convinced.


Look Naruto and Sasuke both play a big impact on her in part 1. However, people tend to ignore the positive things Sasuke did and accentuate everything Naruto did.

Off the top of my head;
Sasuke gave her the lecture about being alone.
Led by example in giving food as a team.
Jumped in front of the Chunin to save her life.
Noticed and gave her the encouragement need to take the Chunin exams.
Listened to her and stopped his crazy curse seal rampage.
Sacrificed himself and his dream to save her against Gaara.


> Team 7 was a threat to him alright. Very different from the small fry he was knocking out up to that point, and they had no intention to let Sasuke go. They were still very much capable of fighting when he threatened to use Kirin, only Yamato was down.


There was such a huge gap between them Naruto cried and had to train, Sakura felt Sasuke' progress was unnatural and even Orochimaru mocked the difference between them. Sasuke was playing around.


> Besides, there really isn't a point in arguing about the Sasuke from that time. It's the Sasuke from now that matters.


Okay


> What I mean is that the reasons do matter. Just labeling it as murder puts them all on the same level, which simply isn't true in this case.


Fair enough.


> Danzo and the Elders planned the massacre, not Konoha. They alone should be pursued, and even that is still wrong in a way, since it goes against Itachi's wishes


What about the wishes of his parents and the dead Uchiha? Danzo, Sarutobi and the Elders may have planned the massacre, but from what he knows the entire village looked down and discriminated against the Uchiha for over half a century. Sasuke is clearly in the wrong, however, there is some truth in what he and Nagato say. The peace of Konoha is built upon the suffering of others.


> With a reason. You don't just love someone because you do, whoever claims that has never been in love before. Since there's a reason, it automatically means that that person did something to earn it. And to continue to earn it, the same person has to live up to the other's expectations. If not, the relationship falls apart.


I meant actions are not enough to make someone fall in love with you, especially more than the next person. You may buy them gifts, weight on them hand and foot. In fact they may even choose to be with you, because it is the more sensible option, but this does not mean that they love you more.


> But I can guarantee you it's going to be much healthier.


Of course.


> It all comes down to her love for him. That was the main reason.


You have contradicted yourself here. If her main goal in assassinating Sasuke was her love for him then she was placing him above Naruto in importance.


> The problem is the amount of time Sakura is taking. For being the main heroine, it's about time she got a defining moment already. If she manages to defeat one of the big four all by herself, I'll be satisfied.


That's why sometimes you have to wait to the end. Like I said before it took Hiruzen 69 years and Danzo 72. I don't see Sakura defeating any of the big four by herself. I think the best she can hope for is maybe a joing battle with Kakashi against Kabuto or Zetsu.


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## Mikaveli (May 28, 2011)

LO FUCKING L SAKURA.


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## Reddan (May 28, 2011)

Seto Kaiba said:


> If Sakura ever falls for Naruto, it's pretty clear it won't be because he's the popular guy now. Your previous statement on the fact that she doesn't love him even now is proof of her growth is pretty much crap. The matter of her being in love with Naruto is irrelevant to her growth, it'd just be something that happens, it isn't a necessary development. However, her remaining infatuated with Sasuke is relevant to the state of her character, and her persisting infatuation is damaging to her growth and character as whole.


It is a simply concept I dont see why people do not understand it. 

When Sakura was young she was shallow and cared about popularity and prestige. So she immediately went for the popular, handsome talented guy: Sasuke. 

If she was still shallow she would fall for the guy, who had those qualities. At the moment Sasuke has pretty much lost all the reasons why young Sakura first liked him. Naruto on the other hand NOW has all the qualities young Sakura wanted.

However, she has grown. Her reasons for liking Sasuke are not based on the shallow things she first went for when she was younger. In her fake confessions she tries to pretend she is the same girl, but it is not true. She has grown and changed. At this present time she is in love with the social pariah and not the dashing hero.


> She still holds to the ideal of Sasuke, but has in a way come to terms that it is not the real him. It's clear her infatuation causes her pain and suffering, and it's clear that it is destructive to her character.


This is not true. She is no longer infatuated with Sasuke, but grew to love the real him. She knew him better than anyone else. Of course loving someone like Sasuke causes her pain and suffering. This is why it is ridiculous to call her the same shallow girl, who wanted to climb the social ladder, by dating the local superstar. She is doing the exact opposite.


> Sasuke let her know how clueless she was about Naruto's situation, but it wasn't out of the kindness of his heart (towards her). She said something insensitive, and it irritated him and he berated her for it. Her crush on Sasuke has actually inhibited her growth, as was clearly displayed in Part I. It's when she began considering the team as a whole did she have moments of significant development.


It was also Sasuke who showed her to consider the team as a whole. He was the one, who offered Naruto food for the good of the team.


> That was all before he went completely evil, but still evil. He'll kill whomever now, and he was going to kill the team at Oro's hideout.


Yes Sasuke's morals have been slipping the entire story. Naruto briefly restored them to pre massacre, but Itachi returning pushed him back. The defining moment was learning about Konoha's part in the massacre.


> He's killed the samurai, tried to kill Karin, Naruto, Sakura, and Kakashi as well as Killer Bee. Just because he may not have succeeded with the named characters does not take away from the fact that he tried to take their lives. Furthermore, the samurai were a neutral party that were protecting someone assigned under their protection. Sasuke could've disabled them non-lethally, but he chose to kill them because he merely wished to.


He is not a good man, he has fallen really low. There is no denying this. However, this was after Madara told him the truth. His morals and outlook completely changed at this point. He went from detesting people, who killed innocent people to further their own power to doing the same by hunting Bee.


> Because it's like Konohamaru attacking Sarutobi. In his prime.


Don't joke about that, there is no doubt Konohamaru will surpass his grandfather. 

Anyway she never planned to attack him outright, but gain his trust before knifing him in the back at his weakest. It was not a bad plan had he accepted. Look how weak Karin is, but she had ample opportunity to kill Sasuke by just being on his team.


> That's crap. The villagers respected and admired the Uchiha. They didn't wipe out the clan, Itachi did under the orders of Danzo and the Elders, whom should be punished and one whom is already dead.


The databook and Madara said they feared and hate the clan as well. Respect and admiration are not always mutually exclusive from fear and hatred. In many societies a group have been both respected and admired, but at the same time feared and hated.


> Well, Sakura's in a lot of trouble seeing as the guy she loves has tried to kill her on more than one occassion, and even before had no interest in her romantic advances.






> Intensity of feelings and solidarity of feelings are not necessarily intertwined. Getting over Sasuke does not mean the next guy, if a guy or anyone at all, will be loved less by her. It means she's learned from her prior experiences and is carrying on the lessons learned to enrich herself and life.


This is something I agree with and is precisely why I asked for clarification on what was meant by getting over Sasuke. Jiraiya was able to get over Tsunade. He continued to work hard on missions and was prepared to kill her had she betrayed Konoha, but he never stopped loving her. Sakura is still young and has plenty of time to progress.


> She overestimated her importance not only to the situation but in regards to Sasuke as well.


No she lacked all the information. Sakura actually has been the one, who has always predicted Sasuke' cause of action the best. Whilst Naruto and Kakashi were blind to just how strong the darkness was in side of him, Sakura was fully aware of it and brought up the concern with the other two, only to have it dismissed.  Perhaps if they had shared the information from Madara with her then she would have been able to act in a different manner.


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## Saunion (May 28, 2011)

It's really sad the amount of bullshit people have to spew to justify the main character being part of the Beta Couple.


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## Renyou (May 28, 2011)

arednad said:


> I will explain this one more time. If Sakura was the same shallow girl she was at the start then she would be in love with Naruto NOW. This is nothing to do with whether she falls in love with him in the future. I am not saying if she falls for Naruto in the future it HAS to be for shallow reasons. I am saying if she only loved people for shallow reasons, like when she was a younger, she would ALREADY be in love with Naruto.



Alright. That wasn't very clear on your previous post. I still disagree on the Sasuke part though.



> If she only loved Sasuke romantically for his status and popularity then she would not love him now. He has no popularity or status.



He's still handsome and desirable. Can't rule that out when it comes to women in this manga.



> Naruto has all the popularity and status. The shallow Sakura at the start of the series would have have switched.



Who knows... Maybe just looks was enough for her.



> Look Naruto and Sasuke both play a big impact on her in part 1. However, people tend to ignore the positive things Sasuke did and accentuate everything Naruto did.



That's because Naruto has done far more good to her in comparison.



> Off the top of my head;
> Sasuke gave her the lecture about being alone.
> Led by example in giving food as a team.
> Jumped in front of the Chunin to save her life.
> ...



-She deserved it. No big deal. It didn't affect her much anyways, since she still treated Naruto badly the following day.
-Granted.
-Granted.
-Granted.
-That was more about stopping a negative than being a positive.
-That was kinda overshadowed by Naruto being the one who pulled it off for her sake. The intention was there at least, but he would have done that for any of his comrades.



> What about the wishes of his parents and the dead Uchiha? Danzo, Sarutobi and the Elders may have planned the massacre, but from what he knows the entire village looked down and discriminated against the Uchiha for over half a century. Sasuke is clearly in the wrong, however, there is some truth in what he and Nagato say. The peace of Konoha is built upon the suffering of others.



Can't keep living in the past, that isn't going to solve anything. And the Uchiha weren't exactly saints. Besides, every village has dirt swept under the rug. 

Kakashi warned him revenge would only bring him misery, and he didn't listen. He will have to suffer the consequences of his choices.



> I meant actions are not enough to make someone fall in love with you, especially more than the next person. You may buy them gifts, weight on them hand and foot. In fact they may even choose to be with you, because it is the more sensible option, but this does not mean that they love you more.



Ok. Sounds like you understand what I pointed out.



> You have contradicted yourself here. If her main goal in assassinating Sasuke was her love for him then she was placing him above Naruto in importance.



That's a bad habit of mine. That sounds about right.



> That's why sometimes you have to wait to the end. Like I said before it took Hiruzen 69 years and Danzo 72. I don't see Sakura defeating any of the big four by herself. I think the best she can hope for is maybe a joing battle with Kakashi against Kabuto or Zetsu.



I wouldn't like that. She already got help in the Sasori battle, if she's supposed to surpass Tsunade in skill, she needs to do it on her own, and actually prove it on the battlefield (not that Tsunade has any impressive showings, but that's not the point).


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## AMtrack (May 28, 2011)

arednad said:


> It is a simply concept I dont see why people do not understand it.
> 
> When Sakura was young she was shallow and cared about popularity and prestige. So she immediately went for the popular, handsome talented guy: Sasuke.
> 
> ...



LOL rule # 1:  Dont sideship.  When you try and sideship for the benefit of your OTP, your arguments just come out looking ridiculous.  News Flash:  When Sasuke left the village, he was still Mr Popular.  Sakura had not seen him since then except for the Reunion.  So HOW could she love the "real him" when she never spent any time with him after he left the village.  Total contrived bullcrap lol.  And Sakura never knew the real Sasuke, which Sasuke flat-out told her.  So no, she doesnt love Sasuke for the real him.  She loves him for the same damn reason she fell in love with him in part one, her crush is literally no different just something she cant seem to let go of.


Sakura's growth is directly tied to her unhealthy crush for Sasuke.  Sasuke has repeatedly shown to be a hindrance to her character, and she will not develop until AFTER she gets over that crush from part 1.  Thats just the fact of it.  Idk what you were saying, or what manga you were reading, but Sakura never knew the real Sasuke, and Sasuke left before she could get a chance to.


Side-shipping is the most retarded thing ever.


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## Summers (May 28, 2011)

AMtrack said:


> LOL rule # 1:  Dont sideship.  When you try and sideship for the benefit of your OTP, your arguments just come out looking ridiculous.  News Flash:  When Sasuke left the village, he was still Mr Popular.  Sakura had not seen him since then except for the Reunion.  So HOW could she love the "real him" when she never spent any time with him after he left the village.  Total contrived bullcrap lol.  And Sakura never knew the real Sasuke, which Sasuke flat-out told her.  So no, she doesnt love Sasuke for the real him.  She loves him for the same damn reason she fell in love with him in part one, her crush is literally no different just something she cant seem to let go of.
> 
> 
> Sakura's growth is directly tied to her unhealthy crush for Sasuke.  Sasuke has repeatedly shown to be a hindrance to her character, and she will not develop until AFTER she gets over that crush from part 1.  Thats just the fact of it.  Idk what you were saying, or what manga you were reading, but Sakura never knew the real Sasuke, and Sasuke left before she could get a chance to.
> ...



Whats side shipping?


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## Mr Horrible (May 28, 2011)

arednad said:


> It is a simply concept I dont see why people do not understand it.
> 
> When Sakura was young she was shallow and cared about popularity and prestige. So she immediately went for the popular, handsome talented guy: Sasuke.
> 
> If she was still shallow she would fall for the guy, who had those qualities. At the moment Sasuke has pretty much lost all the reasons why young Sakura first liked him. Naruto on the other hand NOW has all the qualities young Sakura wanted.



Yes, Sakura isn't shallow anymore. No, that does not make her still chasing after Sasuke any better. 



> However, she has grown. Her reasons for liking Sasuke are not based on the shallow things she first went for when she was younger. In her fake confessions she tries to pretend she is the same girl, but it is not true. She has grown and changed. At this present time she is in love with the social pariah and not the dashing hero.



So... once more you've proven that Sakura isn't shallow anymore? Nice, although I would point out that Sakura used more than just shallow reasons in the confession.



> This is not true. She is no longer infatuated with Sasuke, but grew to love the real him. She knew him better than anyone else. Of course loving someone like Sasuke causes her pain and suffering. This is why it is ridiculous to call her the same shallow girl, who wanted to climb the social ladder, by dating the local superstar. She is doing the exact opposite.



How does Sakura even know the real Sasuke? The manga made it clear that for most of the series, even Naruto didn't understand Sasuke, what chance would Sakura have? Once more I'd refer you to the early panels of their reunion at the summit, she is clearly shocked by how dark he has become.



> It was also Sasuke who showed her to consider the team as a whole. He was the one, who offered Naruto food for the good of the team.



Technically, I would give that to Kakashi, their sensei, after all his test was meant to emphasize team work, which it did.



> Yes Sasuke's morals have been slipping the entire story. Naruto briefly restored them to pre massacre, but Itachi returning pushed him back. The defining moment was learning about Konoha's part in the massacre.



Sure. Doesn't in any way justify or even mitigate him wanting to massacre everyone in Konoha.



> He is not a good man, he has fallen really low. There is no denying this. However, this was after Madara told him the truth. His morals and outlook completely changed at this point. He went from detesting people, who killed innocent people to further their own power to doing the same by hunting Bee.



It doesn't matter when he changed, it matters that he did change.



> Don't joke about that, there is no doubt Konohamaru will surpass his grandfather.
> 
> Anyway she never planned to attack him outright, but gain his trust before knifing him in the back at his weakest. It was not a bad plan had he accepted. Look how weak Karin is, but she had ample opportunity to kill Sasuke by just being on his team.



Doesn't really make him trying to kill her any better though.



> The databook and Madara said they feared and hate the clan as well. Respect and admiration are not always mutually exclusive from fear and hatred. In many societies a group have been both respected and admired, but at the same time feared and hated.



Firstly, check your sources, neither are all that reliable. Secondly, why shouldn't most people/shinobi fear the Uchiha a little? They believe in power through hatred, a philosophy almost entirely different to the Senju's, which the overwhelming majority of the village follow. 

Also remember the chunin exams, Sasuke was certainly admired/whatnot simply because of his heritage.



> No she lacked all the information. Sakura actually has been the one, who has always predicted Sasuke' cause of action the best. Whilst Naruto and Kakashi were blind to just how strong the darkness was in side of him, Sakura was fully aware of it and brought up the concern with the other two, only to have it dismissed.  Perhaps if they had shared the information from Madara with her then she would have been able to act in a different manner.



Lol, as flashbacks have shown, Naruto was aware of Sasuke's inner darkness since the academy. Also you must acknowledge that when it comes time for someone to influence Sasuke, Sakura has never been a strong pick. As far as her prediction goes, she was far more involved with Sasuke than her other teammates were, isn't it natural that she should be able to tell that he's going to leave the village? In fact it makes it worse, because even after all that time, she still didn't understand him.

Also I noted in your other posts that you seem to think that Sakura values/cares about Sasuke more than Naruto. I would like to contest this, namely with a panel I brought up earlier in this thread; 
[sp][/sp]
As she said; she doesn't want Naruto to pursue Sasuke if it means putting himself in danger (like that). Combine it with her defending Naruto from Sasuke and it paints a reasonably conclusive picture.


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## Synn (May 28, 2011)

Super Pervert said:


> why can't she realize that..?



Oh she has, believe it or not...


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## Addy (May 28, 2011)

naruto, sasuke.


son, if i  was a girl and had to choose, i would go with being a lesbian.

see, choosing between sasuke and naruto is like choosing between horse shit and pig shit.

hell, itachi is a better choice than these two. at least he would have had the decency in him to kill me and spare me from the shitty drama in this story.


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## Fourangers (May 28, 2011)

I love the fact that everyone pretty much admitted that Sakura is reduced to be only a pairing fodder, "fans", fans and haters alike. 

It'd be awesome if Kishimoto suddenly decides to put a gigantic time-skip at the end, Naruto, Sasuke, Sakura and Hinata would get married with unknown characters and when readers asks he'd answer: What, you expected me to pair up with main characters? Get real, they were only 16 years old.  That was just some shallow crush until they found true love once they were mature enough.

Awesome shit would get awesome.


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## Kuromaku (May 28, 2011)

You know, in an ideal world, Sakura would realize just how much her obsession with Sasuke and overreliance on Naruto are hurting her as a person, get off her ass, and become an awesome character worthy of lead female status.

Of course, in a perfect world, there'd be no poverty, starving children, suffering, or manga writers that can't write romance. 

It's time everyone dropped all expectations for Sakura.  She's pairing fodder, and when you think about it, is about as significant a character as the rest of Naruto's peers: not very.


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## Mr Horrible (May 28, 2011)

Kuromaku said:


> You know, in an ideal world, Sakura would realize just how much her obsession with Sasuke and overreliance on Naruto are hurting her as a person, get off her ass, and become an awesome character worthy of lead female status.
> 
> Of course, in a perfect world, there'd be no poverty, starving children, suffering, or manga writers that can't write romance.
> 
> It's time everyone dropped all expectations for Sakura.  She's pairing fodder, and when you think about it, is about as significant a character as the rest of Naruto's peers: not very.



Well now, what is it about the Narutoverse that is makes it non-ideal? The main character wants to end all hatred and war, while convincing his murderous friend to become good again? Hell, if anything I'd say it's too ideal and needs some sort of failure to stop it being so sickly sweet.

Also, as far as Sakura goes; sure, Kishi hasn't established some sort of fated battle for her. That is a good thing. It doesn't mean she won't get a battle either, all it means is that she has far more freedom than the other main characters in terms of plot. 

On another note, I'd have to say all females in the Narutoverse are pairing fodder, as we don't have any in a relevant power tier (to our knowledge). Hell, what do guys like Kiba bring to the table other than character interaction?


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## Fourangers (May 28, 2011)

Kuromaku said:


> You know, in an ideal world, Sakura would realize just how much her obsession with Sasuke and overreliance on Naruto are hurting her as a person, get off her ass, and become an awesome character worthy of lead female status.



Haha. This is Kishimoto who are you talking about. Even Konan, before she leeched on Yahiko's dream and afterwards she continued to follow Nagato, she didn't have a dream by herself even though she was an interesting character.

Personally, since Naruto is my favorite character, after this chapter I don't want her to be near him from one mile of distance. I'm utterly afraid how she'll handle him because even though she have romantic feelings for Sasuke, she'll probably choose Naruto because he's the "better option." I don't care, at least Sasuke doesn't give a damn about her and constantly berates her if she's being too intrusive or annoying. Plus, unless Mr. Kishi decides, I'm sure he won't ever have any romantic interest on her. Naruto, on the other hand, rarely do something like that against her and I can see her leeching off his good nature and taking advantage of him.

I hope she'll be forever miserable having feelings for a criminal who tried to kill her thrice, pinning for him and being obtuse to the point she won't even dare to look at Naruto, because she won't ever have the courage to approach him after the fail confession she had done to him. I hope that Kishimoto will completely forget about her.

That's the level of disgust I have on her.  I don't care if SasuSaku is more fail than NaruSaku, but at this specific point of the story, I have never hated so much NaruSaku because I don't want Naruto choosing that abomination. Simple as that.


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## Neptun (May 28, 2011)

Sasuke just needs to throw himself at Sakura. It's obvious that she only wants the one thing she can't get :ho


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## Reddan (May 28, 2011)

Mr Horrible said:


> Yes, Sakura isn't shallow anymore. No, that does not make her still chasing after Sasuke any better.
> 
> 
> 
> So... once more you've proven that Sakura isn't shallow anymore? Nice, although I would point out that Sakura used more than just shallow reasons in the confession.


Well I had to go over my points to clarify them to people. I was showing how her character had grown: Rome was not built in a day.


> How does Sakura even know the real Sasuke? The manga made it clear that for most of the series, even Naruto didn't understand Sasuke, what chance would Sakura have? Once more I'd refer you to the early panels of their reunion at the summit, she is clearly shocked by how dark he has become.


Sakura does know the real Sasuke, better than anyone else. Yes Naruto and Kakashi did not understand Sasuke, but Sakura did. There is a reason she was the only one worried he would seek Orochimaru for power. She also knew when he would leave the village and took measures to stop him. 

The reason she is shocked at how bad he has become is due to lack of information. Before learning the information from Samui's team she implied several times she did understand him. The reason she is shocked is due to Kakashi and Naruto keeping things from her.


> Technically, I would give that to Kakashi, their sensei, after all his test was meant to emphasize team work, which it did.


Kakashi had failed every student before then. Even Hiruzen, thought Kakashi' test may be too hard and Sakura clearly had not learnt the lesson. It was Sasuke, who got the message through.


> Sure. Doesn't in any way justify or even mitigate him wanting to massacre everyone in Konoha.


I agree Sasuke is evil.


> It doesn't matter when he changed, it matters that he did change.


In the context of her reaction to him this is true. However, when we discuss the manga it is important to realise when the change took place.


> Doesn't really make him trying to kill her any better though.


Her trying to kill him first definitely shines a different light on his attempt at killing her. 


> Firstly, check your sources, neither are all that reliable. Secondly, why shouldn't most people/shinobi fear the Uchiha a little? They believe in power through hatred, a philosophy almost entirely different to the Senju's, which the overwhelming majority of the village follow.
> 
> Also remember the chunin exams, Sasuke was certainly admired/whatnot simply because of his heritage.


No need to check my sources. My grand parents felt the same way about the Germans, because of the war. They admired and respected many of their qualities, yet at the same time were very prejudiced against them.


> Lol, as flashbacks have shown, Naruto was aware of Sasuke's inner darkness since the academy. Also you must acknowledge that when it comes time for someone to influence Sasuke, Sakura has never been a strong pick. As far as her prediction goes, she was far more involved with Sasuke than her other teammates were, isn't it natural that she should be able to tell that he's going to leave the village? In fact it makes it worse, because even after all that time, she still didn't understand him.


Naruto was never completely aware of the darkness in Sasuke. He thought it was impossible he would leave the village. In the paragraph above you are now confirming Sakura was more involved with Sasuke than the others. Considering how close the whole of Team 7 is that means a lot. 

Where do you get the idea she did not understand him? She realises he is going to leave the village. She acknowledges how he feels about the death of his clan. She tells him that his cause of action will make no one happy not even himself. She tells him if he stays in the village he would grow attatched and enjoy his life.

All these things are true.


> Also I noted in your other posts that you seem to think that Sakura values/cares about Sasuke more than Naruto. I would like to contest this, namely with a panel I brought up earlier in this thread;
> [sp][/sp]
> As she said; she doesn't want Naruto to pursue Sasuke if it means putting himself in danger (like that). Combine it with her defending Naruto from Sasuke and it paints a reasonably conclusive picture.



Yes, but this does not mean she cares more about Naruto than Sasuke. Sai implies her primary reason for killing Sasuke was to stop Sasuke from falling any further. She knew this would destroy her relationship with Naruto, but she is prepared to do it.

I genuinely don't particular care about how any of the pairings end up. However, I think it is important to discuss the characters fairly.


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## Fourangers (May 28, 2011)

arednad said:


> Sakura does know the real Sasuke, better than anyone else. Yes Naruto and Kakashi did not understand Sasuke, but Sakura did. There is a reason she was the only one worried he would seek Orochimaru for power. She also knew when he would leave the village and took measures to stop him.







> The reason she is shocked at how bad he has become is due to lack of information.



She knew that he joined Akatsuki and she knew that he kidnapped Killer Bee, a jinchuurki, that implied that he was willing to kidnap Naruto and kill him by result. That's enough information. Also, didn't everyone said that she knew how much he had fallen to darkness that's why she wanted to kill him herself?



> Before learning the information from Samui's team she implied several times she did understand him.



What? What? When?



> The reason she is shocked is due to Kakashi and Naruto keeping things from her.



Even if she comes to know about the whole secret, it won't change any fucking thing. Sasuke had officially gone to the other side, joining Akatsuki and kidnapping Killer Bee. This fact didn't change at all. She's shocked? She said:

"This...definitely isn't the old Sasuke-kun...he's changed..."

That doesn't sound shocked to me at all. She was already expecting that he'd changed. She wasn't expecting that much. That's all.


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## Kiss (May 28, 2011)

Naruto and Sakura won't stop loving Sasuke. Whether you like it or not.


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## Reddan (May 28, 2011)

Perhaps you should read the entire confession, rather than taking things out of context.

She not only realises he is going to leave, but also the route he will take.
2

She knows about his clan and even revenge will not make him happy.
2

She knows staying in the village and Team 7 is what would make him truly happy.
2

Understands how he will react to someone else killing Itachi.
2

She was also the one to realise he was very tempted by Orochimaru's offer.

She understands how Sasuke will act better than anyone except for Itachi.



> She knew that he joined Akatsuki and she knew that he kidnapped Killer Bee, a jinchuurki, that implied that he was willing to kidnap Naruto and kill him by result. That's enough information. Also, didn't everyone said that she knew how much he had fallen to darkness that's why she wanted to kill him herself?


Yes but she does not know the crucial piece of information: Konoha's involvement in the massacre. Kakashi shows how little he understands Sasuke by questioning why he did not follow Itachi's beliefs. If Sasuke knew about the massacre then everything else would make sense.



> What? What? When?


When she tells Sai he does not know anything about Sasuke's situation implying she does. Or when she tells Sasuke she knows about his history and his actions.



> Even if she comes to know about the whole secret, it won't change any fucking thing. Sasuke had officially gone to the other side, joining Akatsuki and kidnapping Killer Bee. This fact didn't change at all. She's shocked? She said:
> 
> "This...definitely isn't the old Sasuke-kun...he's changed..."
> 
> That doesn't sound shocked to me at all. She was already expecting that he'd changed. She wasn't expecting that much. That's all.



Yes, because she is missing a VITAL amount of information. Sasuke's behaviour makes no sense, because from what she knows of him he would not turn like this after killing Sasuke. 

Sasuke leaving to go to Orochimaru took everyone by surprise except for her. Kakashi and Naruto laughed off the possibility. You cannot predict how someone is going to act if you do not know what they have been told.
__________________


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## Will Of Fire (May 28, 2011)

She's bahaving like a battered wife.

I know that one woman who always got beaten up by her husband. When you asked her why she stayed together with him she would say "I love him that much. Can't live without him. "


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## Mr Horrible (May 28, 2011)

arednad said:


> Well I had to go over my points to clarify them to people. I was showing how her character had grown: Rome was not built in a day.



My apologies.



> Sakura does know the real Sasuke, better than anyone else. Yes Naruto and Kakashi did not understand Sasuke, but Sakura did. There is a reason she was the only one worried he would seek Orochimaru for power. She also knew when he would leave the village and took measures to stop him.



Eh, I have to debate this, Sakura has always had a problem understanding what both her team mates were going through. Naruto on the other hand has been actively trying to understand what Sasuke's going through for the last 400 or so chapters (in order to save him). 



> The reason she is shocked at how bad he has become is due to lack of information. Before learning the information from Samui's team she implied several times she did understand him. The reason she is shocked is due to Kakashi and Naruto keeping things from her.



It would have just changed the shock from meeting Sasuke to when she was told he wants to destroy Konoha. 



> Kakashi had failed every student before then. Even Hiruzen, thought Kakashi' test may be too hard and Sakura clearly had not learnt the lesson. It was Sasuke, who got the message through.



Ok.



> In the context of her reaction to him this is true. However, when we discuss the manga it is important to realise when the change took place.



Arguing from a side that has a bias on wanting Sakura to move past Sasuke; I could say this shame/sadness/whatever is a symptom of Sakura realizing just who Sasuke is now. This differentiates it from all the times Sakura didn't get over Sasuke, giving a reason as to why it'd be now that Sakura is moving on.



> Her trying to kill him first definitely shines a different light on his attempt at killing her.



Eh, it's not good for either party, Sasuke would want to kill her regardless.



> No need to check my sources. My grand parents felt the same way about the Germans, because of the war. They admired and respected many of their qualities, yet at the same time were very prejudiced against them.



I'm just saying that Madara is a manipulative troll and the DB are hardly canon. While yes, there was probably an aspect of fear from the village towards the Uchiha, what do they expect? Konoha's previous Kages were all very benevolent, which does not describe the Uchiha at all. Note I bring up the Kages as a comparison point; the village recognizes the Kages as strong in the same way they'd acknowledge the Uchiha as strong.



> Naruto was never completely aware of the darkness in Sasuke. He thought it was impossible he would leave the village. In the paragraph above you are now confirming Sakura was more involved with Sasuke than the others. Considering how close the whole of Team 7 is that means a lot.



Sure, Naruto is only now truly starting to understand Sasuke, but he has a far better vantage point than Sakura to do so. The manga seems to stress that in order to save Sasuke, you must know where he is coming from, in other words to understand him. Sakura has never been a viable option as a key player in Sasuke's redemption. 



> Where do you get the idea she did not understand him? She realises he is going to leave the village. She acknowledges how he feels about the death of his clan. She tells him that his cause of action will make no one happy not even himself. She tells him if he stays in the village he would grow attatched and enjoy his life.



Naruto had a far better chance of understanding the pain Sasuke felt at the VotE, and you saw how that worked out. Kakashi tells Sasuke that he'll be unhappy with revenge too btw, and he actually knows what he's talking about, Sakura has ulterior motives (namely thinking that she will make him happy). Half the things Sakura says are a desperate attempt at keeping Sasuke in Konoha, so even if she didn't fully believe statements, she'd throw them out there in the chance that they would have an effect. If she actually knew how Sasuke felt, she wouldn't mention growing 'attached' as that's the reason he's leaving in the first place.



> Yes, but this does not mean she cares more about Naruto than Sasuke. Sai implies her primary reason for killing Sasuke was to stop Sasuke from falling any further. She knew this would destroy her relationship with Naruto, but she is prepared to do it.



Let's see, it's either a life of misery and darkness for Sasuke, or Naruto not liking her/talking to her. They don't have the same weight, Naruto would still be alive, albeit with one less friend. What she did say was that she doesn't want Naruto to chase Sasuke when there's so much risk that Naruto will die.



> I genuinely don't particular care about how any of the pairings end up. However, I think it is important to discuss the characters fairly.



Well, I'm quite a biased opinion, as I like NS and really hate SS


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## Fourangers (May 28, 2011)

arednad said:


> Perhaps you should read the entire confession, rather than taking things out of context.
> 
> She not only realises he is going to leave, but also the route he will take.
> 2



How about Sakura couldn't believe in Sasuke enough, that's why she kept waiting for him?

Summoning Technique

Naruto knew about Orochimaru's villainy, but he chose to trust Sasuke. Same as Kakashi. But yes, they didn't know that Sasuke would choose Orochimaru in the end.

Sakura has the weakest bond towards Sasuke. That's why even with Kakashi and Naruto's reassurance, she kept waiting at the gates. Because she doesn't believe in Sasuke.

So that's what it meant by knowing someone well huh. You don't believe in his potential of good and you keep falling apart and having doubts every second. She almost gave up twice, only to be revived by Naruto's determination. That's how much she knows Sasuke. By giving up on him and being cheered up by someone else.



> She knows about his clan and even revenge will not make him happy.
> 2



She was BLUFFING. Later on, she got to know about his revenge and his goals while she was being Tsunade's apprentice.

Summoning Technique

She never knew the extent of his revenge. Everything she was aware of was:

1- at the beginning of the team 7 introduction, Sasuke only said he wanted to kill someone and he's an avenger.

2- the cursed seal.



> She knows staying in the village and Team 7 is what would make him truly happy.
> 2



That's something that Naruto and Kakashi knew too and both had said about it to Sasuke too. Sakura only repeated this sentence. Kakashi said before her.



> Understands how he will react to someone else killing Itachi.
> 2



Again, that's something that she came to know the LAST. Kakashi knew first because he's aware about the Uchiha massacre. Naruto came to know second because Sasuke told him *personally*. Sakura came to know last because she read Tsunade's files.

And wow, what does anything has to do with Sakura knowing Sasuke's darkness? She knows that revenge wouldn't give him happiness (common sense) and in your page you gave me, she said that by finding Itachi Sasuke would no longer have any objective and would return to Konoha. She doesn't know the pain of losing someone, she doesn't know the pain of loneliness, she doesn't know about vengeance, she doesn't understand this hatred. She thought that once the Itachi case was done, Sasuke would be all fine in his old glory. She could never see past his "I'm a cool avenger, popular guy in this class with troubled issues with pedophiles and big brother murderers".



> She was also the one to realise he was very tempted by Orochimaru's offer.



No, she only saw Orochimaru laughing and saying that Sasuke would come to him. She never saw Sasuke saying: "this power is awesome and I'm interested in you."



> Yes but she does not know the crucial piece of information: Konoha's involvement in the massacre. Kakashi shows how little he understands Sasuke by questioning why he did not follow Itachi's beliefs. If Sasuke knew about the massacre then everything else would make sense.



WHAT. Madara said himself, he took a GAMBLE:

Summoning Technique

Madara was also doubtful if Sasuke would follow Itachi's steps or choose revenge. Then, he said Sasuke was always one of us. That means that between choosing returning to Konoha and revenge, Sasuke was torn apart. That doesn't mean that Kakashi didn't know Sasuke enough. It's just that by a small margin, Sasuke chose the other path.

And again, what kind of changes would give to her? She's part of Konoha, she has friends in Konoha, she's part of Konoha nins, she's protecting Konoha, her parents are from Konoha. Even if she knows about the truth, she also know the good part of Konoha, she'll keep defending Konoha. She may become undecided to kill him, but that doesn't mean in any circumstance that she would approve Sasuke going homicidal and killing anyone that crosses his path.



> When she tells Sai he does not know anything about Sasuke's situation implying she does. Or when she tells Sasuke she knows about his history and his actions.



That's after when you said back at her confession that she waited for him because she "knew" that Sasuke would go to Orochimaru. Then, Sai just repeated the same thing and she hit him for it. So.....which stance are you trying to defend? That she knows him so well that she knew that Sasuke would defect or she knows him so well that she knew that Sasuke is still the good ol' boy that wouldn't defect, just made a tiny small mistake?

Make up your mind.



> Yes, because she is missing a VITAL amount of information. Sasuke's behaviour makes no sense, because from what she knows of him he would not turn like this after killing Sasuke.



This sentence doesn't make sense. But I'd infer that you said "he would not turn like this after killing Itachi." Again, what kind of change would make from Sakura. She doesn't know the pain of losing a family, she still have other bonds in Konoha to look disapprovingly towards Konoha. 

Now let's imagine. If she knew about Sasuke's past, but would still go through her ridiculous plan of killing him, she would see his current self, she'd still be disgusted in how much he changed, she would still falter in killing him. Tah. Dah.



> Kakashi and Naruto laughed off the possibility



WHAT. Kakashi and Naruto BELIEVED Sasuke's best side. They chose to BELIEVE in Sasuke. Laughed off the possibility? Kakashi gave Sasuke a lecture, Naruto said to Sakura that Sasuke is stronger than that.

Sakura is the one who chose to doubt him.


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## Arles Celes (May 28, 2011)

^Actually Sakura showing that she doubts that Sasuke will stay in Konoha and instead leave the village is proof that she understood him better than Naruto did at that time(though probably not as good as Kakashi).

Naruto holding a blind faith in Sasuke is hardly proof that his feelings towards him are better/stronger

Blind faith=/=best proof of someones love/friendship

Jiraiya definitely loved tsunade yet he threatened to kill her(and confirmed it in his though again when he heard what she was about to do) if she betrayed the village.

Did it diminish his love for her in any way? IMO not really.

Naruto's stance towards Sasuke was(and remains) immature. It is hardly better.

If it wasn't s shounen manga Naruto would fail with Sasuke and such naive pursuit would cost him everything.

That said I do NOT confirm neither SasuSaku nor NaruSaku nor any other pairing.

Kishi is QUITE cunning as he put the pairings in a situation when he can do anything and make almost any pairing fandom find it somehow believable:

NaruSaku becomes canon? Fans: Oh, they had so much interaction and Naruto is such a nice guy to her. It was obvious.

NaruSaku is trolled? Fans: Oh, such fake confession was the final nail in the coffin and they had a brother-sister relationship anyway and nothing more. Besides Sakura loves Sasuke sooo much,

SasuSaku becomes canon? Fans: Oh, Sakura was as stubborn as a mule regarding her feelings towards him and Kishi's writing is quite weird anyway so it makes sense.

SasuSaku gets trolled? Fans: She got tired of all that abuse. She had to grow up finally.

NaruHina becomes canon? Fans: Oh, it was obvious as Hinata is so cute and such a perfect wife material. She even saved him from Pain!!

NaruHina gets trolled? Fans: Oh, she was sadly a minor character and she did only stalk him with rarely talking to Naruto personally.

Kishi WILL troll because that is how he rolls


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## Seto Kaiba (May 28, 2011)

> ^Actually Sakura showing that she doubts that Sasuke will stay in Konoha and instead leave the village is proof that she understood him better than Naruto did at that time(though probably not as good as Kakashi).



No it didn't. It was clear she had strong doubts about Sasuke exactly because she didn't know him that well. She was unsure about him, and that gravitated to worst-case scenario. It's the same reason why she was ready to give up the first time when Naruto came back from VotE, and after Sai's talk. 

She cannot understand or relate to him like Naruto can, part of why she can't retain Naruto's optimism. That stated, her doubts were proven right on the night of his defection, but I think it should be cleared up that it wasn't because she knew him that well. It was quite the opposite. Naruto and Kakashi had lingering feelings of his possible defection, but their relation to him made them optimistic that he'd make the right choice like they have. It's understandable, but she didn't have a strong foundation for faith in him like the other two did.


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## Arles Celes (May 28, 2011)

Seto Kaiba said:


> No it didn't. It was clear she had strong doubts about Sasuke exactly because she didn't know him that well. She was unsure about him, and that gravitated to worst-case scenario. It's the same reason why she was ready to give up the first time when Naruto came back from VotE.



Wouldn't blind fangirling and naive faith in him be better proof that she hardly understood him back then?

Sakura: I do not worry about Sasuke kuuun because he is the coolest and will ALWAYS do the right thing. Besides he would never leave the village because he certainly looves me^^

THAT would sound more like something a shallow fangirl with no understanding would say.

As I said before believing blindly in Sasuke(like Naruto did) is hardly proof that said feelings are stronger.

blind faith=/=true love/frienship

Naruto is very naive and almost everyone called him out on it. Despite how Kishi trolled her character Sakura showing doubts(even after VOTE) is more realistic than Naruto taking Sasuke's bullshit without a second though.

That said I hardly believe that any pairing will happen and it will be just tease over trolling like it always is.


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## N120 (May 28, 2011)

agree with setokaiba.

what I find most disturbing about this love of hers is the fact she would hold on to something so dearly when in reality there was nothing to hold on to in the first place.

i dont think there was ever a moment in the manga where sasuke ever led her on, accepted her advances or stated he likes her, they were team-mates and nothing more. their relationship as far as we've been shown was always strictly professional not personal, i would go as far as saying sasuke got along better (both personally and professonally) with naruto more than he did with sakura.

they were never close, so where she get's this strong bond from idk.


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## Seto Kaiba (May 28, 2011)

Arles Celes said:


> Wouldn't blind fangirling and naive faith in him be better proof that she hardly understood him back then?
> 
> Sakura: I do not worry about Sasuke kuuun because he is the coolest and will ALWAYS do the right thing. Besides he would never leave the village because he certainly looves me^^
> 
> ...



Kakashi and Naruto were both troubled with Sasuke's situation, they didn't just have blind faith in him, especially not Kakashi. They were aware that his situation was a dire and grave one. Even when Naruto was initially unaware of the CS, he had his concerns. Naruto's eventual obsession and pursuit of Sasuke was certainly grating and did a number on his character I feel (which I felt didn't have to be). He could still have his faith in Sasuke's redemption (till Kage Summit...) yet the issue do no damage to his character.

The thing is I'm not arguing whether Sakura was right or wrong for not having faith, I'm just telling you why she didn't. She may love Sasuke, but she really didn't relate to or understand him like the other two, so it was a given she'd be the first to be plagued with doubts and the first to give up. Now THAT stated, she too can still believe in his redemption (till he tried to kill her twice), but those romantic prospects are damaging to her character and should (and hopefully will) fade.

Kakashi handled it best in that he didn't immediately give up after the first failed attempt (even I felt Sasuke was redeemable until the Cloud incident), but understood that there has to be a breaking point. I'm not even sure if he still has faith in Sasuke now, he's just leaving it in Naruto's hands since he's the only one strong enough to stop him.


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## Dim Mak (May 28, 2011)

I think she'll get to her senses if Sasuke ever attempts to kill her, she'll probably realise that Sasuke has changed. Oh, wait...


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## Arles Celes (May 28, 2011)

Seto Kaiba said:


> Kakashi and Naruto were both troubled with Sasuke's situation, they didn't just have blind faith in him, especially not Kakashi. They were aware that his situation was a dire and grave one. Even when Naruto was initially unaware of the CS, he had his concerns. Naruto's eventual obsession and pursuit of Sasuke was certainly grating and did a number on his character I feel (which I felt didn't have to be). He could still have his faith in Sasuke's redemption (till Kage Summit...) yet the issue do no damage to his character.
> 
> The thing is I'm not arguing whether Sakura was right or wrong for not having faith, I'm just telling you why she didn't. She may love Sasuke, but she really didn't relate to or understand him like the other two, so it was a given she'd be the first to be plagued with doubts and the first to give up.
> 
> Kakashi handled it best in that he didn't immediately give up after the first failed attempt (even I felt Sasuke was redeemable until the Cloud incident), but understood that there has to be a breaking point. I'm not even sure if he still has faith in Sasuke now, he's just leaving it in Naruto's hands since he's the only one strong enough to stop him.



Actually out of Kakashi and Naruto only the former was bothered by Sasuke's behavior and ONLY after he saw that Sasuke was willing to hit Naruto with a deadly jutsu(chidori). Even then he was naive for giving Sakura a naive promise that it will all work out despite witnessing how dark Sasuke was becoming after the Itachi situation. He did not understand Sasuke in that sense that he UNDERESTIMATED the hatred that Sasuke felt for Itachi.

And Naruto was hardly ever bothered. He was only pissed that Sasuke still underestiamtes him and does not acknowledge him(by putting the headband).

Naruto's reaction when Sakura told him about CS and Oro?

Naruto: No need to worry Sasuke is very cool and strong and he does not need more power. He will not do anything stupid.

I hardly saw him remembering said even with concern or suspicion either.

In fact Naruto did fit more the fangirl aspect than Sakura did at that moment.

Kakashi understood what it means to be an avennger the best out of the three as he saw his deal of avengers in his life but his judgement regarding Sasuke was not truly appropiate according to the situation.

At the very least he should keep Sasuke under the watch of some Anbu under those circumstances.

Right now Kakashi is just like Sakura nothing more than a spectator, I agree.


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## Grep (May 28, 2011)

Sakura is the personification of Kishi. Very obvious answer. 

You ever notice how Kishi makes every single female character talk about how sexy Sasuke is, even when it makes no sense and is out of character?

Its his feelings shining through.


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## Aleph-1 (May 28, 2011)

Renyou said:


> Duh. It's a fake confession, what do you expect? She doesn't mean any of that.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


^I'm with this guy.

I believe that if Kishimoto REALLY wants Sakura to develop as a character for the better, she should let go of those feelings because they are only holding her back. If she's so damn smart like some of you posters claim she is, then she should know that there's many fish in the sea and she's only wasting her time holding a torch for Sasuke. Which, need I point out for the umpteenth time, is an angry, dangerous psychopath now.

Maybe if she let go of her old feelings she'd be better and stronger for it? Huh....now there's a thought. And to anyone who replies to my post....don't tell me anything along the lines that it's wrong for her to let go of her feelings for Sasuke.


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## Tyrion (May 28, 2011)

SHANARRRO!


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## Juk3n (May 28, 2011)

Arles Celes said:


> Actually out of Kakashi and Naruto only the former was bothered by Sasuke's behavior and ONLY after he saw that Sasuke was willing to hit Naruto with a deadly jutsu(chidori). Even then he was naive for giving Sakura a naive promise that it will all work out despite witnessing how dark Sasuke was becoming after the Itachi situation. He did not understand Sasuke in that sense that he UNDERESTIMATED the hatred that Sasuke felt for Itachi.
> 
> And Naruto was hardly ever bothered. He was only pissed that Sasuke still underestiamtes him and does not acknowledge him(by putting the headband).
> 
> ...



This is a silly argument. Hindsight is 20/20 and we can't use the fact that he actually did leave as proof of who understood Sasuke better. 

The final catalyst for Sasuke leaving was the attack of the sound ninja four, which neither of them knew about. Before that, it looked like Kakashi's lecture may have gotten through to Sasuke. We see him imagining and seriously mulling over both possible paths (first thinking of Itachi and then his new comrades). 

Having faith in Sasuke does not make Naruto more of a fangirl than Sakura. And worrying about Sasuke leaving and ending up being right does not mean Sakura understood him better. 

If anything, I think Naruto understood Sasuke and what he was going through better simply because they both grew up alone and we see in flashbacks at the valley of the end that they knew and understood each other's pain and loneliness.


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## ajinko (May 28, 2011)

letting go of her feelings for sasuke isn't really character developement. sakura already resolved to kill sasuke but couldn't do it for the obvious reasons. resolving to kill him so she wouldn't have see him plunger deeper into darkness was a massive decision. she gave up hope on sasuke at that point. but naruto came along and brought back the hope that they can change sasuke. so all sakura could do now is believe in them and she feels useless becasue she can't do anything for sasuke. 

her feelings for sasuke will remain no matter what but  in the future she will have the resolve to kill him. it's kind of like anakin and obi wan. obi wan loved him but still killed him. even more so princess (forgot her name) and anakin. sakura still believes sasuke an turn around and so does naruto and that is perhaps one of the most imprtant plot points of this manga. if he doesn't turn around than all this for nothing.

and yes in reality a normal girl wouldn't love a guy that tried to kill her but this is a fucking ninja manga so we can do without real world prefrences.

the only purpose of this thread is to hate on sakura becasue she tsill not over sasuke. we are bashing her becasue she didn't give up hope on him even thoguh its like the central plot of this manga. 

once again its a japanese manga story not real world story so u could bag ur real world common sense.


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## Arles Celes (May 28, 2011)

Juk3n said:


> This is a silly argument. Hindsight is 20/20 and we can't use the fact that he actually did leave as proof of who understood Sasuke better.
> 
> The final catalyst for Sasuke leaving was the attack of the sound ninja four, which neither of them knew about. Before that, it looked like Kakashi's lecture may have gotten through to Sasuke. We see him imagining and seriously mulling over both possible paths (first thinking of Itachi and then his new comrades).
> 
> ...



The sound 4 only made him make up his mind faster. That hatred that he had poisoning his heart wouldn't dissapear as easily like that. Even after his talk with Kakashi he still looked pissed, hateful, and angry.

Actually it wasn't all that different from when Gaara tried to make him change his mind. During said conversation his face also seemed to show some doubt as if his actions were not necessarily 100% right.

However after a short while it was all back to "revenge mode". It cant be helped. So Sasuke would in all likelihood leave Konoha anyway. Perhaps after his next meeting with Itachi(which would undoubtedly happen) or his next meeting with Oro and more temptations of power.

Having faith does not make anyone a fangirl. Now, believing in someone blindly without ever having some serious doubts about whether said person deserves a second chance/is redeemable IS fangirling.

Naruto knew that Sasuke was a loner but that was obvious to anyone as Sasuke was hardly trying to hide his antisocial nature. Its just that he was cool, handsome, and badass that the remaining rookies were not bothered by such attitude.

And Naruto hardly understood Sasuke for most of the manga...even he admits it:

Itachi clearly states he knew Kakashi wouldn't be affected by his Genjutsu....sorry bro try post something current to prove otherwise!!!

Naruto: I though I understood him...but I really didn't

Hell...even Sasuke gets angry at him as he says that Naruto couldn't understand him and his pain as he never had any family to remember or/and grief over.

Whether Sakura understood Sasuke better or not at the very least she was able back then(in part 1) to predict his actions better.

Anyway it still does not confirm any pairing for better or worse. It is all as it always was pairing wise.


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## Juk3n (May 28, 2011)

Poo Bear said:


> Last I checked, Sasuke sees all of his bonds with Team 7 as equal, it doesn't mean nothing if Naruto is important to him than the others(Naruto's ironically the one he's tried to kill more than once to). So Sakura should be on a similar pedestal with Naruto when it comes to being a comparison to severing his greatest bonds.



Well I think you need to check again then because Sasuke admits him and Naruto were best friends. 

And with the flashbacks in their battle at the end of part 1, we see young Naruto looking at Sasuke alone on the pier and him looking at Naruto - they both look away quickly but both of them smile afterwards. They understand each other's pain and had a unique bond even before they were put on the same team. 

I'm not saying he had no bond with Sakura. He definitely views her as a comrade, and is even willing to give up his life for her and Naruto against Gaara in part 1. So yes, there definitely is a bond between them but it pales in comparison to his and Naruto's. 

To be honest I think you are guilty of seeing what you want to see.


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## mayumi (May 28, 2011)

nothingis going to make sakura stop. kishi is hell bent on sakura forever loving sasuke. whether she will be with sasuke in the end is LOL part.


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## Seto Kaiba (May 28, 2011)

ajinko said:


> letting go of her feelings for sasuke isn't really character developement. sakura already resolved to kill sasuke but couldn't do it for the obvious reasons. resolving to kill him so she wouldn't have see him plunger deeper into darkness was a massive decision. she gave up hope on sasuke at that point. but naruto came along and brought back the hope that they can change sasuke. so all sakura could do now is believe in them and she feels useless becasue she can't do anything for sasuke.
> 
> her feelings for sasuke will remain no matter what but  in the future she will have the resolve to kill him. it's kind of like anakin and obi wan. obi wan loved him but still killed him. even more so princess (forgot her name) and anakin. sakura still believes sasuke an turn around and so does naruto and that is perhaps one of the most imprtant plot points of this manga. if he doesn't turn around than all this for nothing.
> 
> ...



Sakura letting go of *romantic expectations* to be with Sasuke would be significant development. That is the ultimate hurdle for her character. If she goes running back to him after this, it'll only convey a lack of self-respect and esteem which as can be seen in this thread, a lack of respect of the character. She didn't resolve to kill him, the whole thing about resolve is willingness to go through with whatever you want to do. She couldn't do it. She still evidently held to that ideal Sasuke she had as a little girl. That is true, that her faith is artificially sustained. She believes in Naruto whom believes in Sasuke. Honestly, that really doesn't say much about her significance to Sasuke, and not a good indicator of her already slim chances to be with him if she'd still want that later in the story.

His redemption is the only necessity. Any romance is unnecessary, and doesn't have any value. The only thing one can argue that Sakura needs to retain is to still care about Sasuke and believe Naruto will redeem him, she shouldn't and doesn't need to hold on to the romantic prospects of being with Sasuke. I don't think anyone's feelings will change, but this is kinda why I called you a hypocrite. You expect Naruto's feelings to change, but not Hinata's nor Sakura's, the latter which is the only whom needs to get over her current infatuation so her character can really start moving forward.

Kishi claims she is supposed to represent a realistic girl, so people will have that expectation. A realistic girl is not going to go crawling to a guy that tried to kill her three times. Also, this manga is made by a real man, whom clearly intends to espouse values that we can relate to. That is not a valid defense of her behavior. They may be ninjas an their own universe, but they still hold values that we have, can, and do relate to and identify with.

Her infatuation is not a central part of the manga, it doesn't help your credibility to conjure up falsehoods. The central part of the manga is Naruto's connection to Sasuke. Furthermore, getting over her romantic prospects with Sasuke is not the same as giving up hope on Sasuke. She doesn't have to be in love with him to care about him. As I repeatedly stated though, for the sake of her character, she needs to let go of the infatuation and romantic prospects towards Sasuke.

Again, that's not a valid defense. Japan is a world power, a "first-world" civilization, it's part of the real world too if you didn't notice...


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## ajinko (May 28, 2011)

^ but japanese culture is unique and different. the manga shows signs of naruto moving on but couldn't say the same for sakura i'm not saying this from thin air. if u want i'll show the manga panels that show naruto moving on all the way back from part 1. why are u saying romantic expectations like getting married and shit like that? i don;t think sakura is thinking abotu that. ur just degrading her. it just love mate, when u care for someone,   miss his company etc. wanting to hang out with him, take care of him. thats what sakura longs for and thats why she misses him so much. it's not like she exepcts anythign from sasuke, she just wants to be around him.

yes u can call it fatal attraction if u want.


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## AMtrack (May 28, 2011)

ajinko said:


> ^ but japanese culture is unique and different. the manga shows signs of naruto moving on but couldn't say the same for sakura i'm not saying this from thin air. if u want i'll show the manga panels that show naruto moving on all the way back from part 1. why are u saying romantic expectations like getting married and shit like that? i don;t think sakura is thinking abotu that. ur just degrading her. it just love mate, when u care for someone,   miss his company etc. wanting to hang out with him, take care of him. thats what sakura longs for and thats why she misses him so much. it's not like she exepcts anythign from sasuke, she just wants to be around him.
> 
> yes u can call it fatal attraction if u want.



Rofl wow you are totally off. This is a classic example of ppl seeing what they want to see. There are no signs of Naruto moving on. Its the same as always. He loves Sakura but hides his feelings because she loves Sasuke and he wants her to be happy. This hasnt changed, so you are purely speaking bullshit. Sais flashback in part 2 proves it. And until we get something that contradicts Narutos words in that flashback..its the best evidence of Narutos feelings. No making shit up.

Yes Sakura loves Sasuke but that love is a hindrance to her character. It doesnt make her happy..it makes her depressed, as the latest chapter proves. It also prevents her character from doing anything but relying on Naruto.  Her growth is tied to her letting go of that crush in part one.  Until she does..Sakura will always be a damaged character. Period.

And Japan is unique and different how. Dont spew things you know nothing about to help your weak argument. If anything, Sakura pursuing a murderous psychopath makes her weak and possibly dishonorable in Japanese culture.  Not to mention pathetic. Mentioning Japan does not help your argument.


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## ajinko (May 28, 2011)

i think sakura has progresed from crush to love. so i don't know why u can say its childish anymore. again how does prevent her charcter growth. it seems all u want is for her to open her legs for naruto like some sort of priez or something. did she or did she not come to a resolution at one point to kill sasuke? if u argue that than naruto character growth must also be damaged. 

japanese culture is different from western culture do some research first. and i said not to compare it to real world. its a fuckin ninja manga. and sir naruto has moved on and i'll provide u proof.







to me it seems naruto cares abotu team 7 getting back together than getting into sakuras pants.


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## Dokiz1 (May 28, 2011)

Why aren't Jizz banned yet?


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## Kyu (May 28, 2011)

AMtrack said:


> Rofl wow you are totally off. This is a classic example of ppl seeing what they want to see. There are no signs of Naruto moving on. Its the same as always. He loves Sakura but hides his feelings because she loves Sasuke and he wants her to be happy. This hasnt changed, so you are purely speaking bullshit. Sais flashback in part 2 proves it. And until we get something that contradicts Narutos words in that flashback..its the best evidence of Narutos feelings. No making shit up.
> 
> Yes Sakura loves Sasuke but that love is a hindrance to her character. It doesnt make her happy..it makes her depressed, as the latest chapter proves. It also prevents her character from doing anything but relying on Naruto.  Her growth is tied to her letting go of that crush in part one.  Until she does..Sakura will always be a damaged character. Period.
> 
> And Japan is unique and different how. Dont spew things you know nothing about to help your weak argument. If anything, Sakura pursuing a murderous psychopath makes her weak and possibly dishonorable in Japanese culture.  Not to mention pathetic. Mentioning Japan does not help your argument.



This guy gets it...


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## Seto Kaiba (May 28, 2011)

ajinko said:


> ^ but japanese culture is unique and different.



Yes, but it seems like my point has flown completely over your head. They are a "first-world" civilization, they have many values that are in common with those that live on the Western Hemisphere. This is not a valid defense. They aren't advocating that males to attempt to murder any female admirers they have, they aren't advocating that a woman runs back to such a person. Your mentioning of Japan does not help your argument.



> the manga shows signs of naruto moving on but couldn't say the same for sakura i'm not saying this from thin air.



You are, because no one's feelings have given an indication of changing. You are doing the same thing NaruSaku fans did and assuming something you really cannot definitively prove. As we know now, NO ONE'S feelings have changed. Hinata loves Naruto whom loves Sakura whom loves Sasuke, and the latter wants to kill everyone.



> if u want i'll show the manga panels that show naruto moving on all the way back from part 1.



I pretty much could predict which panels you'd show. No, that does not show him moving on. That shows, as Tsunade put it, his sensitivity. He was being considerate. The latter his capacity for understanding a person and his empathy.



> why are u saying romantic expectations like getting married and shit like that? i don;t think sakura is thinking abotu that. ur just degrading her.



The infatuation is degrading her. I mean, a relationship IS often what the intent is with a person's romantic pursuits toward another.



> it just love mate, when u care for someone,   miss his company etc. wanting to hang out with him, take care of him.



They did none of this on a significant level. Definitely not a romantic relationship level. As a matter of fact, Sakura herself states that Sasuke never really talked to her, and communication is an essential to forge any strong bond.



> thats what sakura longs for and thats why she misses him so much. it's not like she exepcts anythign from sasuke, she just wants to be around him.



Which is what makes her pathetic. She's like a dog waiting on a master that abandoned it.



> yes u can call it fatal attraction if u want.



It's certainly destructive.


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## Arles Celes (May 28, 2011)

The sad thing is that at this point there is nothing that Sakura can do to redeem herself after failing for so long.

Even if she lets go of her feelings towards Sasuke she will still be useless against opponents above chunin level. She will keep crying whether it is for Naruto, Sasuke, or Tsunade. She will NOT train as Kishi does not even make Sasuke train and instead gives him instant power up to avoid wasting pages on his training. Sakura has no special power like Kyuubi or Sharingan and Kishi wont give it to her.

Her genjutsu potential was completely wasted and she has no teachers to train her anyway.

If she confronts Madara, Kabuto, Itachi, or Nagato she will hardly do anything and will immediately cry for Naruto to save her...

Actually any named edo might be enough for her to cry for help...

She will probably not even try much but be quickly saved by someone and left shaking.

There was no Sasuke with her for most of part 2 and yet she remained useless and weak.

She had GREAT potential after facing Sasori but it all went downhill from there.

There is hardly anything about her that can be fixed and giving up on Sasuke only to become even more reliant on Naruto(who would be her new idol) would hardly improve her character IMO.


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## ajinko (May 28, 2011)

u think japansese women gets better treatment than western women?

narusaku fans do have to contend with very possible future sasuke redemption or kishis decide to make a tragic hero out of him. either way .............. but then how would naruto become hokage?


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## Seto Kaiba (May 28, 2011)

Poo Bear said:


> I don't see how it would be, it's is shown that Sasuke's bonds with Team 7 is each special and unique than just mere friendship.



No, at most that is only for Naruto and Sasuke. Kakashi's is unique because he is like a surrogate father to him. He's the only other one that Sasuke has actually made a real connection with. He care about Sakura, and she was a precious comrade but she did not have a special connection to him and clearly not a significant emotional presence in his mind. When Naruto showed up, he stopped to listen. When Kakashi showed up, despite his murderous attitude, he expressed looking forward to confronting him. When Sakura showed up, he almost immediately tried to kill her without a word, in cold blood.



> Sakura would lose the very thing that makes her her bond with Sasuke important, her love for him.



No she would not. This is not a valid assumption at all, because she'd still be his teammate and still be someone that cared for him.



> Again having a love for someone who's never known the concept of romance and affection is nothing despicable to Sakura's character. It makes Sasuke more pure than undeserving really.



What a warped argument. What's despicable to Sakura's character is pining for someone that would've been by his own volition her murderer. Multiple times had it not been for outside intervention, and will be so again if he decides to attack Konoha. 



> I don't think so, but you're free to believe whatever you want to. You know she could learn about Sasuke's from itachi's lips and piece the basis of Sasuke's main core to a more understandable light. And her love for him is the reason she hasn't stopped believing in Sasuke(wheter Naruto influenced her or not), otherwise she'd be Karin.



It'd really be worthless at this point. There's no excuse for what he tried to do to her. Karin was smart for letting go. It hurt her to do so, but she was intelligent enough and had enough respect for herself to move on. That is not a negative trait. Sakura whom still pines for her would-be killer is on the other hand, regardless of whether or not she learns the truth behind the massacre. 

She HAS stopped believing in Sasuke many times. Naruto's influence matters a great deal, because it was and is the only thing keeping it alive, and he's the only chance she really has at having some chance of continuing her romantic pursuits of Sasuke again.



> Sakura's value matters, and her being with Sasuke shows how diligent she's become in her progress as the main heroine.



No. It'd only show her lack of esteem and self-respect. It'd be the contrary in that she ultimately could not surpass that hurdle. 



> Still, thats up to Kishi. Whom said he wanted Sasuke to be understood and felt from his point of view.



If so, he fails miserably. Although, I've heard nothing of the sort from him. The most I've heard is that he hadn't yet decided back during the early Kage Summit Arc on whether or not to make Sasuke full-fledged evil, and that Danzo's fight would determine that. Well, he's full-fledged evil now. People are only supposed to understand what could drive Sasuke to this, but not excuse his actions.

In short, understand that he's had a tough life and faced a lot of tragedies, but regardless that does not excuse his actions, and that he is wrong for  what he is doing. That's the whole point of his eventual redemption.



> Sakura should understand Sasuke to better approach his problems with out a shallow interest in him.



Yet she does not, and that will have no value now. Only Naruto has a chance of reaching Sasuke. Naruto was the only one whoever really did have a chance other than maybe Itachi.



> II think you're hopelessly stubborn if you think Kishimoto won't develop his characters outside their current status quo.



They've pretty much retained their base personalities, so...



> Naruto has to change in order to be a good hero, Sakura has to change in order to be a good heroine and love interest to Sasuke,



I have my own thoughts on how good of a hero Naruto is, but it can at least be acknowledged that changes have been already put in place to try oto make him as such. Sakura becoming a real heroine means she has to break away from the moniker of being Sasuke's love interest (she isn't) or having Sasuke as a love interest. 



> Hinata has to change in order to be a good side heroine and love interest to Naruto



Even as one whom dislikes Hinata, that devalues her character. Her purpose for development should be so that the character's own potential is fully realized, regardless of romantic interests and pursuits. 



> and Sasuke ahs to change in order to be a good foil to Naruto and his quest for glory.



He's already a foil to Naruto. He's always been a foil to Naruto.



> Alot of this relateabilty comes from the slective context we put in the characters Kishi's made instead of accepting the status quo and saving face for the characterizations Kishimoto establishes, right now Kishimoto wants Naruto not only to save Sasuke but to understand him. And I think this applies to Sakura and Kakashi as well. Sakura how ever is in love with him so her goal is more personal than altruistic than Naruto's.



Which is why the attempts to drag Sasuke/Naruto dynamic to either deflect from the criticism or defend Sasuke/Sakura's dynamic are weak. They are very different in nearly all respects.



> Naruto is supposed to be the representation of the new generation of peace and the personification of hope for the ninja world. And saving Sasuke is the key. Sakura still has a pivitol role as the heroine to make sure her friends are safe and to believe in Naruto and Sasuke to work things out for the bigger picture also contributing with Sasuke's redemption by still being in love with him.



Sakura being in love with Sasuke is not necessary to his redemption. It is Naruto's faith in Sasuke, and his bond with him that is necessary.



> But Kishimoto has stated Sakura's bond with Sasuke comes from affectionate intentions and romantic ideals. Sasuke is her main love interest and the main bond that is the core basis of having Sasuke as a friend.



That's how it started, not an essential of it. She's still gonna care about him regardless, but she needs to let go of the romantic expectations. It does no good for her character.



> So it's okay for the main hero to have a specialized connection with the secondary anti hero/villain but not the heroine because her love for him is unethical and demoralizing.



That's exactly right. She can still care for him as a friend, it would not de-value whatever value their bond has. Ultimately, it really is only Naruto's connection to Sasuke that matters, not only to the characters but as well in relation to circumstances of the story. 



> I doubt Kishimoto acknowledges this since he sees Sasuke as pure and easy to corrupt which invokes sympathy.



Sasuke WAS "pure", and that was only after Itachi's death, when he had gotten what he wanted, but as Kakashi stated, he had been left with emptiness. He's evil now, and he deserves no sympathy.



			
				Aris Celes said:
			
		

> There is hardly anything about her that can be fixed and giving up on Sasuke only to become even more reliant on Naruto(who would be her new idol) would hardly improve her character IMO.



Letting go of romantic expectations with Sasuke =/= Falling for Naruto instead.


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## Arles Celes (May 28, 2011)

^But since Kishi had shown no interest in making her a stronger kunoichi, giving her some goals or dreams of her own that do NOT revolve around Sasuke and Naruto, and giving her any deeper role in the plot besides shipping, it is quite clear that if she stops being Sasuke's bitch she will become Naruto's bitch instead.

Being a romance interest seems to be the only role Kishi has for her...and I can't say that it pleases me but we can hardly do anything about it.

I feel sorry for her most devoted fans who like her while giving no though to shippings and instead hope to see her strong in both mind and body.

Kishi made sure it wont happen...


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## Raiden (May 28, 2011)

Hmm..there should have a sticky pairings thread lol.

She's playing the pitiful role of the emphatical women powerless to do anything about her circumstances. Which is such a shame since I would have loved to see her punch Sasuke in the back/head. He wouldn't have realized soon enough to stop her when she motioned to attack him from behind with a kunai.


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## Seto Kaiba (May 28, 2011)

Raiden said:


> Hmm..there should have a sticky pairings thread lol.
> 
> She's playing the pitiful role of the emphatical women powerless to do anything about her circumstances. Which is such a shame since I would have loved to see her punch Sasuke in the back/head. He wouldn't have realized soon enough to stop her when she motioned to attack him from behind with a kunai.



That was kinda funny when it was revealed the poisoned kunai would've done jack shit either way....it was an unnecessary blow to her attempt, but hilarious nonetheless.


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## Omnipotent Pirate (May 28, 2011)

Seto Kaiba said:


> That was kinda funny when it was revealed the poisoned kunai would've done jack shit either way....it was an unnecessary blow to her attempt, but hilarious nonetheless.



a poisoned kunai buried into sasuke's back would have done nothing? Naruto's reaction to the poison was most likely slower because it only scratched his cheek. or did i miss something else?


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## Supa Swag (May 28, 2011)

Omnipotent Pirate said:


> a poisoned kunai buried into sasuke's back would have done nothing? Naruto's reaction to the poison was most likely slower because it only scratched his cheek. or did i miss something else?



Kakashi said the poison wouldn't have done anything since Sasuke received immunity from Orochimaru and Kabuto.


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## Omnipotent Pirate (May 28, 2011)

Supa Swag said:


> Kakashi said the poison wouldn't have done anything since Sasuke received immunity from Orochimaru and Kabuto.



ah, ok. still, the kunai should have done some damage by itself anyway. a kunai in the back isn't exactly good for ones heath.


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## Saunion (May 28, 2011)

Arles Celes said:


> ^But since Kishi had shown no interest in making her a stronger kunoichi, giving her some goals or dreams of her own that do NOT revolve around Sasuke and Naruto, and giving her any deeper role in the plot besides shipping, it is quite clear that if she stops being Sasuke's bitch she will become Naruto's bitch instead.



You can't compare the two, because the nature of Sakura's "relationship" with Sasuke is mostly what makes her character such a mess, especially in regards to Naruto.

Honestly it's ridiculous how so many people try to argue the problem is Sakura being in love and not Sakura being in love with Sasuke SPECIFICALLY. It's because she's in love with Sasuke that she offered to betray her village, manipulated her best friend, had these big melodramatic scenes about how little she could do for others only to do nothing and be satisfied with it,a nd of course is still clinging to someone who tried to kill her.

All of these terrible character traits are a direct consequence of Sasuke and Sasuke only and of Sakura's reaction to him, his behavior and her own powerlessness to do anything about it. It's pretty obvious nothing of the sort would happen if she was infatuated with Lee or Gaara or whoever.


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## Arles Celes (May 28, 2011)

Saunion said:


> You can't compare the two, because the nature of Sakura's "relationship" with Sasuke is mostly what makes her character such a mess, especially in regards to Naruto.
> 
> Honestly it's ridiculous how so many people try to argue the problem is Sakura being in love and not Sakura being in love with Sasuke SPECIFICALLY. It's because she's in love with Sasuke that she offered to betray her village, manipulated her best friend, had these big melodramatic scenes about how little she could do for others only to do nothing and be satisfied with it,a nd of course is still clinging to someone who tried to kill her.
> 
> All of these terrible character traits are a direct consequence of Sasuke and Sasuke only and of Sakura's reaction to him, his behavior and her own powerlessness to do anything about it. It's pretty obvious nothing of the sort would happen if she was infatuated with Lee or Gaara or whoever.



I hate having to defend Sasuke but...

Ask yourself one thing...did Sasuke manipulate OR encourage Sakura in any way to behave like an immature and shallow fangirl?

Nope.

Lets say that the object of her affection was not Sasuke but lets say...Rock Lee. Would have it worked any better? Sakura's take on love was extreme and THAT was the problem.

Actually one of the few positive traits of Sasuke in part 1 were when he was calling her out on her bulshit when she acted as a shallow fangirl, did not train and/or was insensitive towards others.

Such harshness from him might be interpreted by many as abuse but I hardly think that spoiling someone who is already immature already would be a good thing.

Sasuke might not have done it always having her particular well being in mind but what he said in more than one of those occassions was well placed IMO.

If Rock Lee was the object of her immature affections she would tempt him all the time to date happily instead of training and of course the dude being as nice as he is couldn't refuse to his cute Sakura chan...

Neither would train and they would both die for being too weak.

Sakura is a damn ninja it is her DUTY to train instead of fangirling all the day.

In fact call me crazy but Sasuke actaully often had a good influence on her in such situations.

Him calling her pitiful when she laughted off the fact that Naruto is an orphan caused her to rethink her attitude towards Naruto. When he told her to train instead of focusing all of her attention on him for teh first time did she consider her usefullness as a kunoichi. When he protected her in the forest of death she realized that she can't hide forever behind his back and must stand for herself.

Would you just take shallow behavior from someone you are dating and never object or say any harsh words if the object of your affection was immature and spoiled?


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## AMtrack (May 28, 2011)

Arles Celes said:


> I hate having to defend Sasuke but...
> 
> Ask yourself one thing...did Sasuke manipulate OR encourage Sakura in any way to behave like an immature and shallow fangirl?



He's not saying its Sasuke's fault, he's saying its the fault of Sakura's love for Sasuke that makes her such a terrible character.  Its the love, not Sasuke, so theres no defense necessary


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## Sadako (May 28, 2011)

Feelings ≠ logic, unfortunately.


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## Mr Horrible (May 28, 2011)

Arles Celes said:


> [sp]I hate having to defend Sasuke but...
> 
> Ask yourself one thing...did Sasuke manipulate OR encourage Sakura in any way to behave like an immature and shallow fangirl?
> 
> ...



The simple fact is that for most of those interactions, Sasuke simply didn't give a shit. Sure, when Sakura laughed about Naruto having no parents, he called her on it, that's a good thing. However in the moments that Sakura was looking for validation, Sasuke simply didn't care, it's generally accepted that negative feedback is a poor motivator, if he was truly interested in helping her, there were significantly better ways in which to do so.



bellezza said:


> Feelings ≠ logic, unfortunately.



Sure, if you're an idiot, or you have no self esteem.

Believe it or not, people do get out of unhealthy relationships all the time.


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## Addy (May 28, 2011)

reading your responses paring fans is just sad. i don't get what's so special about these parings? 

sasusaku. the only thing i like about this cople is the fact that sasuke tried to kill her............. twice  say what you want about sasuke, but trying to kill sakura gives him extra points on my ladder.

narusaku. one, naruto loves sasuke over sakura and even sakura complained about it. two, naruto being sakura's bitch is not as entertaining as sakura being chocked. hell, their relationship is cliche with the whole "tsunadare" crap.

naruhina. hinata deserves better. i don't care if naruto is a hero, or inspired her and stuff but her obsession with him is not even cute. it's just sad.

so these are the couples that i would choose over these idiots:

narusasu. it's sad that the only interesting relationship is narusasu.......... a fanmade one 

itasaku. it's the only stright couple with itachi that has allot of fanart strangely 

hinasamui. boobs. enough said.


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## Arles Celes (May 28, 2011)

Mr Horrible said:


> The simple fact is that for most of those interactions, Sasuke simply didn't give a shit. Sure, when Sakura laughed about Naruto having no parents, he called her on it, that's a good thing. However in the moments that Sakura was looking for validation, Sasuke simply didn't care, it's generally accepted that negative feedback is a poor motivator, if he was truly interested in helping her, there were significantly better ways in which to do so.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Her particular well being probably wasn't what he had in mind but nevertheless on many such occassions Sakura did mature for the better IMO.

It would be better if Sasuke could find an even better way to improve her as a person and as a ninja but Sasuke is in need of a psychologist instead of being one...

Both Naruto and Lee would just keep spoiling her silly and fulfilling her every whim just to keep such a "sweet" girl. Would that be a truly healthy relationship? More than one with a murdering psycho as Sasuke is right now...but hardly all that healthy either.

Besides being hunted by painful memories and with hatred tainting his heart he needed as much support as she...perhaps even more.

And Sakura was hardly a support for anyone either. When Jiraiya died how exactly did she support Naruto?


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## AMtrack (May 28, 2011)

ajinko said:


> i think sakura has progresed from crush to love. so i don't know why u can say its childish anymore. again how does prevent her charcter growth.



I keep telling you that it didnt progress at all.  How you can go from crush to love when you havent seen or talked to the person you had a crush on.  There was no progression in her feelings for him, none.  And you cant find a single panel to demonstrate how her love for Sasuke grew from how it was in part one.  Not one.  Its literally the same.  Her reason for liking Sasuke now are no different than they were back then.  If they are, prove it.  Until then, stop making things up.



> it seems all u want is for her to open her legs for naruto like some sort of priez or something. did she or did she not come to a resolution at one point to kill sasuke? if u argue that than naruto character growth must also be damaged.



Common tactic by ppl with fail arguments, misdirection.  Sorry it wont work on me.  I dont care if she NEVER ends up with Naruto, thats not the point.  The point is, she needs to stop pining over Sasuke to grow as a character.  She's still the same damn kunoichi she was in part 1 for the most part, relying on Naruto and waiting for Sasuke to get back.  Sakura's love for Sasuke is holding back her character, yes.  Name ONE good panel where her love for Sasuke actually did something good for her in part 2.  One!  You cant.

Btw she only came to a resolution to kill Sasuke because she cared about Naruto.  Her feelings for Naruto (ie she cares for him) is what drove her to try and throw away her  love for Sasuke.  Obviously she failed.



> japanese culture is different from western culture do some research first. and i said not to compare it to real world. its a fuckin ninja manga.



Lol okay how about you tell me how japanese culture is different and how that helps your argument.  I want specifics, otherwise you're just spouting crap.  Fyi, i've studied Japanese for a couple years, was taught by a Japanese teacher, and have quite a few friends who came here to study from Japan.  I know its different, but its moral values are the same..and even more strict than Western values.  Sakura's actions are more shameful in Japan than they are in America.  Only in western culture will ppl think its alright to love someone trying to kill you.

Fyi, domestic violence/abuse/homicide rates are much much lower in Japan than they are in America.  So none of this really helps your argument at all.  As for as the real-world comparison, you are the one who brought up "japan is different".  Btw the moral values in manga come from the real-world, so its not retarded to somewhat compare the two.



> and sir naruto has moved on and i'll provide u proof.



Not proof, when Naruto left the hospital Tsunade explained it very clearly: Naruto was just being sensitive.  Again I refer you to Sai's flashback in part2 (ie most recent, not part 1 garbage) that has Naruto specifically tell Sai that he can't confess until he brings Sasuke back.  This proves he hasnt moved on, again you fail.  Find me one panel after Sai's flashback that contradicts that statement.  ONE.  Lol you cant. [/quote]



> to me it seems naruto cares abotu team 7 getting back together than getting into sakuras pants.



For once you're right.  But this isnt about NaruSaku, its about Sakura only being able to develop as a character if she gives up her stupid destructive love for Sasuke.  Its not a good thing, has not shown to be a good thing for all of part 2, so I think Kishi agrees that its hurting her character and she needs to break away from it.  Recent proof = this chapter...that scene was a big obvious "loving Sasuke is not a good thing" reminder for Sakura.

Does she need to go to Naruto after that?  NO!  She can remain celibate for all I care, she just needs to grow up already and focus on other things.  Sasuke has no interest in her, has tried to kill her twice, there's no defending it anymore.


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## Mr Horrible (May 28, 2011)

Arles Celes said:


> Her particular well being probably wasn't what he had in mind but nevertheless on many such occassions Sakura did mature for the better IMO.
> 
> It would be better if Sasuke could find an even better way to improve her as a person and as a ninja but Sasuke is in need of a psychologist instead of being one...



Yes, undermining her self confidence has done wonders for her in the long run. It clearly didn't get her to start training any harder, that realization happened while in the FoD. So really, Sasuke was an ass with no real benefit to Sakura's character most of the time.

I am trying so hard not to fall into the obvious 'negative reinforcement - Sasuke - wife beating' example .



> Both Naruto and Lee would just keep spoiling her silly and fulfilling her every whim just to keep such a "sweet" girl. Would that be a truly healthy relationship? More than one with a murdering psycho as Sasuke is right now...but hardly all that healthy either.



That's just conjecture, I would point out that Naruto hasn't appeared to spoil her during part 2. It's amusing interesting to note that most of her times of weakness stem directly from Sasuke himself.



> Besides being hunted by painful memories and with hatred tainting his heart he needed as much support as she...perhaps even more.
> 
> And Sakura was hardly a support for anyone either. When Jiraiya died how exactly did she support Naruto?



Ah, the Freudian excuse. The fact is that Sasuke got all the support he could realistically get and it still wasn't enough. Hell, compare Sasuke's support system to Naruto's and you can see why there isn't much of an excuse. Or even Gaara; as much are people like to make the comparison, Gaara turned good with just the support Naruto gave him during their battle.

Sakura has supported Naruto at times throughout the series, admittedly not the extent he has supported her, but she tries (and succeeds reasonably often). Also when it comes to Naruto, he appears to be content with people just acknowledging him when it comes to support.


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## ajinko (May 28, 2011)

hehe u must be ignoring all the interaction they had in part 1. yes sakura started with a fangirlish crush but eventually she got to know him and what happened to his family felt sorry for him and she even confessed to him. ur just degrading sakura if u think she is still the same fangirl. 

she was considerate of narutos feelings when she tried to kill sasuke knowing naruto would hate her for that. it doesn't me an lol shes in love with naruto now. 

naruto accepts that sakura is seriously in love with sasuke not just some fangirlish crush and he doesn't pursue sakura romantically anymore or try to flirt with her. u could say shit has hit fan on that persona. he doesn't hate her but knows she won't love him the way she does sasuke. that;s why i'm saying he seems contend with it. that's why i'm saying he moved on he accepts.

sakura also came to terms and tried to kill him but alas her feelings were too strong.

and i'm sorry to all narusaku fans if it seemed kishsi teased and than trolled ur fandom. and i wonder what would sakura think when she learns the whole backstory behind uchia massacre.


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## AMtrack (May 28, 2011)

ajinko said:


> hehe u must be ignoring all the interaction they had in part 1. yes sakura started with a fangirlish crush but eventually she got to know him and what happened to his family felt sorry for him and she even confessed to him. ur just degrading sakura if u think she is still the same fangirl.



No, all the interaction in part 1 proves that Sakura never got to know Sasuke, that she liked him cuz he was popular, and she never indicated another reason for loving him since then.  Sasuke told her point blank that she understood nothing.  Naruto understands way more about Sasuke than Sakura does, even Karin understands way more about Sasuke than she does.  Sakura knows nothing but the image of the "cool popular guy" she liked in part 1.  

You want proof?  What happened when she tried to convince Sasuke to take her with him?  She really thought that plan would work, which proves she didnt understand Sasuke at all, how evil he had become, or what he was really like underneath that cool exterior.  He was gonna kill her from behind and she had no idea.

You want further proof?  When she tried to kill him with the Kunai, her flashback of Sasuke that stopped her was from PART ONE ie the cool popular guy she liked as a child.  

I think we're done here, start spittin panels or dont spit anything at all.



> she was considerate of narutos feelings when she tried to kill sasuke knowing naruto would hate her for that. it doesn't me an lol shes in love with naruto now.



That wasnt the point I was trying to make.  I was trying to tell you that her love for Sasuke hasnt done a single good thing for her, and the only time where she showed growth was when she decided to kill Sasuke off for Naruto.  Love has nothing to do with it.  Please stop with this misdirection business, this isnt a NaruSaku argument.  



> naruto accepts that sakura is seriously in love with sasuke not just some fangirlish crush and he doesn't pursue sakura romantically anymore or try to flirt with her.



No because, like he said in Sai's flashback for the BILLIONTH time:  He cant confess until he brings Sasuke back.  Of course he accepts her feelings, but what does that have to do with anything?  He doesn't know why Sakura loves Sasuke...so of course he doesnt see it as a fangirl crush.  For all he knows, Sakura could very good and deep reasons for loving Sasuke.  But everyone who reads this manga knows it was just a fangirl crush she never got rid of.  Ino grew out of it, Sakura didnt.

Naruto loves Sakura, still does, get over it.  But Naruto doesnt really have anything to do with this anyway.  Its all about Sakura and how her love for Sasuke = bad.  And you still havent shown me a single good thing about it in part 2, or provided any counters for the evidence ive given you.  I'm going to assume we're done here, you obviously have nothing.


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## Arles Celes (May 28, 2011)

Mr Horrible said:


> Yes, undermining her self confidence has done wonders for her in the long run. It clearly didn't get her to start training any harder, that realization happened while in the FoD. So really, Sasuke was an ass with no real benefit to Sakura's character most of the time.
> 
> I am trying so hard not to fall into the obvious 'negative reinforcement - Sasuke - wife beating' example .
> 
> ...



Undermining her self confidence...how exactly? By refusing to date her? By telling her that she needs to train as she is weak?

Even Sasuke could be sensitive once in a while 

Itachi clearly states he knew Kakashi wouldn't be affected by his Genjutsu....sorry bro try post something current to prove otherwise!!!

The realization in FoD happened when Sasuke was protecting her all the time putting his own life in danger for her sake. It was thanks to that her realization about being weak fianally did hit the spot and she cut her hair as a sign of no longer being a girl who just cares for her looks but a ninja who must stand for herself.

The wife beating example would fit if they were in a relationship and Sasuke was mean to her without any justifiable reason. Refuse to date=/=abuse.

When was ever Naruto anything but her bitch through almost the whole manga? If they had a relationship she would have him placed completely under her thumb IMO.

It was only during her fake confession when he had a serious expression for the first time they ever talked and called her out on her bullshit.

The difference in the Freudian excuse is that naruto had Iruka to support him and keep away from hating Konoha.

Sasuke just like Gaara had no support from anyone. The closest to one was Kakashi who looked like kinda a father figure to him. Still...it happened much later than in Naruto's case.  In any case Sasuke just like Gaara needs a similar "therapy". Without such "cure" Gaara would still be just as insane as Sasuke is right now.

I do not recall Naruto supportin or encouraging Sasuke either. Naruto was jealous of him and pissed that he was popular and what not. He strived for Sasuke's recognition and NOT to be a real support for him.

Just going together on missions=/= helping Sasuke emotionally IMO

I hardly recall Sakura encouraging Naruto all that much though I will give her credit for feeling sorry for him and kinda trying to protect him from Akatsuki.

And Naruto as nice as he is hardly encouraged her to train and become strong. After the Gaara rescue mission he was teasing her about a date. If she was in love with him like she was with Sasuke then they would date all the time and hardly train at all. Some responsibility please...?


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## Saunion (May 28, 2011)

Arles Celes said:


> I hate having to defend Sasuke but...
> 
> Ask yourself one thing...did Sasuke manipulate OR encourage Sakura in any way to behave like an immature and shallow fangirl?
> 
> Nope.



I never said it was Sasuke's fault or that he encouraged her. Learn to read.



> Lets say that the object of her affection was not Sasuke but lets say...Rock Lee. Would have it worked any better? Sakura's take on love was extreme and THAT was the problem.
> 
> Actually one of the few positive traits of Sasuke in part 1 were when he was calling her out on her bulshit when she acted as a shallow fangirl, did not train and/or was insensitive towards others.
> 
> ...



Obviously Rock Lee would have worked better. I mean why the hell does this even have to be asked?  Rock Lee wouldn't have given Sakura the idea to betray and manipulate her comrades for the sake of "grazing at his handsome profile ()". If anything he would have worked as an example for her to follow, instead of dragging her down with his DAAAAARKNESSSSS.




> In fact call me crazy but Sasuke actaully often had a good influence on her in such situations.



Yeah I'll call you crazy.


> Him calling her pitiful when she laughted off the fact that Naruto is an orphan caused her to rethink her attitude towards Naruto.



And she says she hates Naruto in front of him one chapter later. The one who changed Sakura's opinion of Naruto is Naruto and no one else.


> When he told her to train instead of focusing all of her attention on him for teh first time did she consider her usefullness as a kunoichi.



And she spent the rest of part 1 crying, peeling off apples and making pitiful love confessions.



> When he protected her in the forest of death she realized that she can't hide forever behind his back and must stand for herself.



And she spent the rest of part 1 crying, peeling off apples and making pitiful love confessions.



> Would you just take shallow behavior from someone you are dating and never object or say any harsh words if the object of your affection was immature and spoiled?



I certainly wouldn't reduce them to tears for some third party to let them cry on their shoulder and fix the broken pieces later.


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## Arles Celes (May 28, 2011)

Saunion said:


> I never said it was Sasuke's fault or that he encouraged her. Learn to read.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



But still you say that it is Sasuke and no one else who has such an influence on her. How do you know that her love for anyone else wouldn't be just as obsessive? IMO it was more about Sakura taking a wrong approach towards love by being so fanatical and pathetic rather than Sasuke's particular influence.

Rock Lee is definitely a better boyfriend material than Sasuke and will have a much functional relationship...as long as the chick he dates is not an obsessive and immature one IMO.

Current Psychosuke is obviously the worst boyfriend ever. There is no doubt about that.

Sakura crying, peeling off apples and making pitiful love confessions was not the result of Sasuke's constant abuse through the entire part 1 but rather a consequence of him leaving the village after entering the hardcore revenge path(courtesy of Itachi's beating and mind rape).


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## erivar (May 28, 2011)

Saunion said:


> I never said it was Sasuke's fault or that he encouraged her. Learn to read.
> Obviously Rock Lee would have worked better. I mean why the hell does this even have to be asked?  Rock Lee wouldn't have given Sakura the idea to betray and manipulate her comrades for the sake of "grazing at his handsome profile ()". If anything he would have worked as an example for her to follow, instead of dragging her down with his DAAAAARKNESSSSS.
> Yeah I'll call you crazy.
> And she says she hates Naruto in front of him one chapter later. The one who changed Sakura's opinion of Naruto is Naruto and no one else.
> ...



I like Sakura as a character. But seriously, how is it any of Sasuke's fault at all that Sakura is the way she is with her perspective on love that is and all her actions whether you deem them positive or negative? Sasuke has never done anything to encourage Sakura's crush on him and in fact shut her down many times. Regardless of if one believes that Sakura's love for Sasuke is genuine or false, the fact that she holds those feelings for Sasuke and how she reacts to it has never had and still doesn't have anything to do with Sasuke himself. I would dare someone to step up to my face and try to blame me for why someone decided to stalk me and did crazy things  in the name of love when i never asked for it, turned them down and generally did absolutely nothing to encourage such behaviors. It's like trying to blame Naruto too for why Hinata still has a crush on him even though he has done nothing to encourage or lead her on.  Most of the people on this forum who insist on saying Sasuke is like a wife beater prove they have no actual knowledge of what an actual wife beater is. They were never in a romance relationship and were never married for her to be his wife. Her affection for him was one-sided. He never manipulated her using her feelings for him. He never encouraged or made her think he ever plans to return those feelings. He's generally done everything he expects would get the message across that she should give up and leave him alone. The first time she professed to join him and betray the leaf, he rejected her offer and left her be. He would manipulate her using those feelings if he was an abuser or the wife beater this forum claims him to be. One of Sasuke's characteristics that i like is that he doesn't actually judge people based on their gender. He looks at them as a ninja. He only shows interest in people who he thinks are strong. And he ignores people he thinks are weak. If Sakura really wanted to get his attention, she would have put the effort into training and becoming stronger just like say Naruto who also wanted to be acknowledged by Sasuke. If you take away the fact that Sakura's affection for Sasuke was colored with a romantic twist, you will see that her and Naruto had similar goals. The difference was they both took different routes to accomplish their goals. Naruto actually put effort into training to surpass Sasuke and get his acknowledgment. Sakura didn't do any of that. Instead, she was interested in going out on dates and her appearance and acting like she his girlfriend.  And Sasuke did her a huge favour when he scolded her and told her she, if she can waste time thinking about that, she can try training instead and how he thought she was worse than Naruto. That made her take a pause and examine her self. It is not Sasuke's fault if she decided to mope and be depressed about being worse than Naruto in his eyes. She could have done what Naruto would have done in that case, try to train harder and better her self. She was supposed to be a ninja and was not acting as one worrying about finding love. It's her personality not Sasuke. 

And how was Sasuke not a good example for Sakura to follow? He was obviously a good enough example for Naruto who wanted to be just like him and gain his acknowledgement. Sasuke spent time training and fighting and trying to succeed and better himself as a ninja and prove his own growth to himself. It s not Sasuke's fault if Sakura rather stared at his "handsome profile" instead of try to better herself as a ninja too. Naruto did. What was her excuse? 
And as for the love confession, that was her own choice. Sasuke clearly told her that he has decided to walk a different path. One they couldn't follow him on. He told her to go. Yet she decided to confess anyways. What did her do? He told her she was annoying, thanked her(what for is left up to the fan) and then knocked out and left her there. Which is really him saving her from the stupidity of what she spewed at him. Like he said, his path is one they couldn't follow him on. That was supposed to be the end of that relationship from Sasuke's point of view. So i honestly fail to see where Sasuke was dragging her down into the darkness with him. All the times they've met after that time, it has never been him seeking her out. It was her and Naruto doing the seeking and confronting and each time, he's told them he has no interest in walking down their paths with them and has attempted to kill them all. If that isn't the biggest clue for Sakura that the romantic aspect of that relationship is ones-sided and all of her own making, then how is it any of Sasuke's fault?

Naruto has a crush on Sakura who doesn't feel that way about him. Is he letting it stop him from improving himself as a ninja? And if it did, how would it be Sakura's fault? You don't see Naruto being depressed about it. And most importantly, Naruto loves Sasuke. But you don't see him reacting to Sasuke's rejection the same way Sakura does. Sure he gets depressed and sad. That's human. But in the end, he uses his failure to reach and save Sasuke as a motivation to try harder and better himself. The only time Sakura has reacted with the same kind of positive way Naruto does was at the end of part 1 where she goes off to train with Tsunade. That has been the only time we have seen Sakura apply herself to better herself as a ninja. That was a positive way to react to disappointment. That is the way Naruto uses all his disappointment. When he felt he wasn't strong enough, he tries even harder. The person that benefits from that isn't Sasuke but Naruto and Konoha itself. So really why treat Sakura with a different standard and lump all her failures and weakness on Sasuke's shoulder? It's how she is. It's her personality. She deals with stuff differently than Naruto. 

All the times Naruto spent training, Sakura could have engaged in the same. But she didn't. Not Sasuke's fault. It's her own feelings and her own actions.

I mean, how many times has she wanted to give up where Naruto was the one who inspired her to not give up and have hope and faith in them rescuing Sasuke? She gives up really easily in comparison to him and lets things get her down quickly instead of using it as a motivator. Completely different personalities and how they react and view things. She would have given up a long time ago. Whether that's a good thing or not is up to you to decide.  

After all, its Sasuke's personality and characteristics that causes him to react the way he does to betrayal, the loss of his clan, his need for revenge e.t.c. That's why ultimately, he is responsible for his actions.


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## MovingFlash415 (May 28, 2011)

Lacie said:


> People aren't spamming KL with "When Will Naruto Give Up On The Sauce" threads. Either way, Sakura and Sasuke's bond may not be as profound as Naruto and Sasuke's, but there were some moments when both of them expressed something akin to care to each other. Heck even Kakashi is reluctant to kill Sasuke because he loves him when Sasuke couldn't care less, yet I don't see Kakashi inciting all of the exasperation Sakura does. My point is, all of team 7 can get us very vexated with their fixation on Sasuke, I don't understand why Sakura has to shoulder most of it.



^This.  Heck, they had to have had some sort of bond, for Sasuke to lose his temper in the Forest of Death when he saw Sakura all scuffed up: "Sakura ...who did this to you?" And that she was able to calm him down just by hugging him.  Reread Part 1, there are all kinds of bonding moments amongst all three of them.  Somehow in the end, both Naruto and Sakura were devestated by Sasuke's betrayal, and they made a promise to bring him back together, and Sakura showed Naruto that she cared for him and regarded him as her friend.  Remember ...she was the one who said they would bring him back TOGETHER.

They both still care about him.  Yeah, it's really really unhealthy to love someone who tried to kill you (twice), but you can't just flip a switch on your feelings.  Isn't that the whole point of the manga?  It's what you say and do more than how you feel that shows your strengths.  Naruto has never tried to kill or incapacitate Sasuke, in spite of Sasuke trying to kill him, Kakashi, Sakura, and who knows how many other people.  Sakura at least TRIED to sever her bonds with him.  Even though Kishimoto DID make her attempts look pathetic (in so many ways), you have to admit: she actually did try.  

Having said that, and having known several people in abusive relns irl, I think she needs therapy so she can finally move on from him.  Holding onto those feelings like that just isn't healthy.  I'd even say Naruto would make a good therapist, if he weren't in the same situation as her right now.  Except while Sakura's "in love" with Sasuke, Naruto is obsessed with him.


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## N120 (May 28, 2011)

MovingFlash415 said:


> ^This.  Heck, they had to have had some sort of bond, for Sasuke to lose his temper in the Forest of Death when he saw Sakura all scuffed up: "Sakura ...who did this to you?" And that she was able to calm him down just by hugging him.




They were team-mates, thats as far as their connection went (with sakura anyway). Remember sasuke also protected naruto against haku and said "don't die", and naruto went berserk as a responce to seeing sasuke dead. This doesnt mean he loves naruto or that naruto loves him, they both accepted eachother as rivals who couldnt stand eachother, but they were comrades and didnt want to see the other get hurt by the enemy, no different from how anyother team would react. (rookies vs sound 5 is an example of this behaviour) 




> Reread Part 1, there are all kinds of bonding moments amongst all three of them.  Somehow in the end, both Naruto and Sakura were devestated by Sasuke's betrayal, and they made a promise to bring him back together, and Sakura showed Naruto that she cared for him and regarded him as her friend.  *Remember ...she was the one who said they would bring him back TOGETHER *.



Only sakura made that promise to herself, naruto has *never* acknowledged it.

  Her promises,ambition for sasuke never really mattered to naruto and he clearly stated that fact during her confession.

 Sasuke too didnt care much for her ambitions or 'love'. The only time he interacted with her (bonded) was during missions, and his caring side only ever came out during battles. This isnt a sign of love or some sort of deep friendship here, his reaction to seeing his team getting hurt is realy no different from how anyother rookie would've reacted in the same situation.



> They both still care about him.  Yeah, it's really really unhealthy to love someone who tried to kill you (twice), but you can't just flip a switch on your feelings.  Isn't that the whole point of the manga?  It's what you say and do more than how you feel that shows your strengths.  Naruto has never tried to kill or incapacitate Sasuke, in spite of Sasuke trying to kill him, Kakashi, Sakura, and who knows how many other people.  Sakura at least TRIED to sever her bonds with him.  Even though Kishimoto DID make her attempts look pathetic (in so many ways), you have to admit: she actually did try.



The issue isnt the bonds they share, we all know there is one. But rather accepting the fact each one has a different degree of understanding,influence and importance between them. thus they're not going to be the same and each characters actions will be judged based on how strong they're relations was with sasukes. 

The most important relationship: Naruto and sasuke are rivals aswell as team-mates who not only share a similar background but regardless of what route they take they're paths always crosses with eachother(akatsuki,madara,cloud,kyuubi,itachi,) and as much as they try to find their own way, in the end all these paths seems to be bringing them to the same destination.

second:  kakashi is an adviser and mentor aswell as being sasukes leader, at some point he did connect with sasuke. 

Least important bond : sakura has never established anything other than being another work colleague with a crush. And sasuke has never acknowledged her advances and has time and time again refused to interact with her on a personal level. so im not sure what it is she is chasing, there was never a hint that he'd actually accept her as anything more than what he thought of her as when they were all still genin, what is she actually fighting for?





> Having said that, and having known several people in abusive relns irl, I think she needs therapy so she can finally move on from him.  Holding onto those feelings like that just isn't healthy.  I'd even say Naruto would make a good therapist, if he weren't in the same situation as her right now.  Except while Sakura's "in love" with Sasuke, Naruto is obsessed with him.



No, naruto and sakura are not in the same position and they dont share the same bond or knowlegde of sasuke.

1) Naruto has always been prepared to fight sasuke to the death if thats what it took, the rooftop,vote,crow-job and post kage summit prove that.

2) Naruto has interacted with sasuke,madara and itachi and has learned more and more about the uchiha back-story aswell as see a growing connection with his own story, so he wants to resolve these murky issue both find themselves in and try to find out the truth and bring justice to both.

3) naruto can also relate with him. So he wants to give sasuke the same chance as he's had to redeem himself...but not at any cost (ie konoha). He wants to achieve peace to narutoverse, so sasuke is an automatic target regardless. 

4) Sasuke has become a stumbling block for his dreams to become a hokage, so in order for him to move on he needs to resolves this issue. Sasuke too accepts naruto as being the stumbling block to his ambition and wants to beat him with EMS before he can move on.

sakura on the otherhand just wants to chase sasuke because... she feels like it, and the most disturbing part is that this is actually her overall goal in life. crazy. 

She should've followed karins example, both went through the same thing.


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## PikaCheeka (May 28, 2011)

What's it gonna take, NF, to stop giving a damn about the pairings and actually pay attention to the plot?


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## Rinoa (May 29, 2011)

PikaCheeka said:


> What's it gonna take, NF, to stop giving a damn about the pairings and actually pay attention to the plot?


hm hm... :33 and to stop trying to change the feelings of the characters, Kishi makes them love whom he wants and not what others want.
Just take it or leave it.


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## Saunion (May 29, 2011)

erivar said:


> I like Sakura as a character. But seriously, how is it any of Sasuke's fault at all that Sakura is the way she is with her perspective on love that is and all her actions whether you deem them positive or negative?



*I never said it was Sasuke's fault or that he encouraged her. Learn to read.*


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## CandleGuy (May 29, 2011)

Mr Horrible said:


> Sure, if you're an idiot, or *you have no self esteem.*
> 
> Believe it or not, people do get out of unhealthy relationships all the time.



Sakura says hello


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## erivar (May 29, 2011)

Saunion said:


> *I never said it was Sasuke's fault or that he encouraged her. Learn to read.*



You learn to re-read your own post. You claim to say you never said that Sakura's actions are Sasuke's fault but then you go on to say that Sasuke is dragging her into his dakrness and that 





> All of these terrible character traits are a *direct consequence of Sasuke and Sasuke only *and of *Sakura's reaction to him, his behavior* and her own powerlessness to do anything about it. It's pretty obvious nothing of the sort would happen if she was infatuated with Lee or Gaara or whoever.



If she was in love with Rock Lee or Naruto, it won't be the same as Sasuke because for one, they would return her feelings for her and she would get to go on all the dates and fantasies she imagined her and Sasuke doing. I honestly cannot see her concentrating on being a ninja and taking and improving seriously as one. Sasuke was absent from their lives for most of part 2 and it was mostly her and Naruto getting closer together and she finding a solid friend in him and improving upon her relationship with other people and yet do we ever see her train once besides that last time when she went to Tsunade to get strong to try to help Naruto to bring Sasuke back? No. Her relationship with Naruto who is training right in front of her and using his failure to reach Sasuke positively is not inspiring her to improve herself as a ninja but to rely on him more to do all the work of bringing Sasuke back. It has nothing to do with Sasuke and more with her ibeing in love(debatable) with someone who doesn't return her feelings. It's easy to say that she won't react the same way if she was in love with say Gaara back in part 1 because right now, Gaara is good. But the Gaara for the most of part 1 was psycho. And he doesn't look like he would be accepting her affection. I don't see what would stop her from still reacting the same way with Gaara as she is with her infatuation with Sasuke. Hinata isn't letting her love for Naruto drag her down. She still improves herself. She doesn't react the same way as Sakura. Ino had a crush on Sasuke, but you never see her reacting the same way as Sakura and she seemed to be a ninja. So yes, its Sakura being in love and or rather her way of being "in love" that is dragging her down. Sasuke seems like a very convenient excuse to wash away her behavior. I like Sakura except for the way she views romantic love. That is her problem. The fact that someone else in her shoes who got rejected by Sasuke would react completely different is proof enough that Sakura's character traits are exclusive to her.


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## Geralt of Rivia (May 29, 2011)

It's not love. It's obsession. You can call it what you want, but not love. That's simply fucking retarded. There is no possible way to feel love in this situation, it isn't possible.


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## Seto Kaiba (May 29, 2011)

PikaCheeka said:


> What's it gonna take, NF, to stop giving a damn about the pairings and actually pay attention to the plot?





•Rinoa• said:


> hm hm... :33 and to stop trying to change the feelings of the characters, Kishi makes them love whom he wants and not what others want.
> Just take it or leave it.



This is pertinent to the issue of her character, as in it's damaging to her character. Maybe you guys can stop being so bellyaching, getting defensive over the indefensible, and see that the common consensus is that her love for Sasuke drags her character down; take _that_ and leave it. People will discuss what they want.


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## Saunion (May 29, 2011)

erivar said:


> You learn to re-read your own post. You claim to say you never said that Sakura's actions are Sasuke's fault but then you go on to say that Sasuke is dragging her into his dakrness and that



I say that Sakura's actions are the fault of her LOVE FOR SASUKE, not Sasuke himself. Holy crap it's not that hard to understand. But then again you're one of these people who adamantly refuse to admit Sasuke is evil and keep on throwing pity parties for him, so it's not surprising you'd jump on that occasion to post another whiny rant about poor widdle Saske koon.


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## AMtrack (May 29, 2011)

PikaCheeka said:


> What's it gonna take, NF, to stop giving a damn about the pairings and actually pay attention to the plot?



A good plot..next question.


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## Iamacloud (May 29, 2011)

100% Ichigo said:


> It's not love. It's obsession. You can call it what you want, but not love. That's simply fucking retarded. There is no possible way to feel love in this situation, it isn't possible.



Charles Manson still gets marriage proposals in RL...

And the Narutoverse is much more permissive about murders than we are.

So your point fails on two levels. It is very possible, it happens in our world too, and if Gaara can go from psycho murderer to leader of his village, Sasuke can easily be redeemed (in fact he is destined to be redeemed thanks to Naruto) and thus Sakura is justified in still hoping to get the old Sasuke back.


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## Omnipotent Pirate (May 29, 2011)

Iamacloud said:


> Charles Manson still gets marriage proposals in RL...
> 
> And the Narutoverse is much more permissive about murders than we are.
> 
> So your point fails on two levels. It is very possible, it happens in our world too, and if Gaara can go from psycho murderer to leader of his village, Sasuke can easily be redeemed (in fact he is destined to be redeemed thanks to Naruto) and thus Sakura is justified in still have hope to get the old Sasuke back.



I agree. attempted murder is very forgivable in narutoverse. Jiriaya pushed naruto off a cliff, and i don't think i ever heard him complain about that. and Lee and Sakura both forgave gaara.


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## Seto Kaiba (May 29, 2011)

Iamacloud said:


> And the Narutoverse is much more permissive about murders than we are.



No, it really isn't. It's a very different world, but still a civilized one that reflects many of our own values. It is clearly the wrong thing to do even in their world. They don't live in one of utter chaos and lack of values. Sasuke has repeatedly tried to kill his former comrades in cold blood, that has become the breaking point for everyone but Naruto.



> So your point fails on two levels. It is very possible, it happens in our world too, and if Gaara can go from psycho murderer to leader of his village, Sasuke can easily be redeemed (in fact he is destined to be redeemed thanks to Naruto) and thus Sakura is justified in still have hope to get the old Sasuke back.



Your point fell apart the moment you decided to try and use it. Gaara and Sasuke's circumstances are very different from one another. You have to, and it seems you did, completely ignore their circumstances to try to use Gaara as a prop-up to defend Sasuke's case. Furthermore, Sakura can still believe in Sasuke's redemption (moreso, she just believes in Naruto who believes in Sasuke...), the romantic expectations have to go for the sake of her character though.


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## erivar (May 29, 2011)

Saunion said:


> I say that Sakura's actions are the fault of her LOVE FOR SASUKE, not Sasuke himself. Holy crap it's not that hard to understand. But then again you're one of these people who adamantly refuse to admit Sasuke is evil and keep on throwing pity parties for him, so it's not surprising you'd jump on that occasion to post another whiny rant about poor widdle Saske koon.



 You are butthurt and revealed you're a Sasuke hater. Success.


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## Saunion (May 29, 2011)

erivar said:


> You are butthurt and revealed you're a Sasuke hater. Success.



Oh so we're at the elementary school name calling stage now? Cool, ur a Sasuke tard and jelly!!!


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## AMtrack (May 29, 2011)

Iamacloud said:


> Charles Manson still gets marriage proposals in RL...
> 
> And the Narutoverse is much more permissive about murders than we are.
> 
> So your point fails on two levels. It is very possible, it happens in our world too, and if Gaara can go from psycho murderer to leader of his village, Sasuke can easily be redeemed (in fact he is destined to be redeemed thanks to Naruto) and thus Sakura is justified in still hoping to get the old Sasuke back.



What? No the point doesn't fail.  No matter how you look at it, Sakura's love for Sasuke is flat-out damaging her physically, mentally, and emotionally.  This isnt about whether Sasuke will be redeemed, its about how much Sakura's love for Sasuke is shitting on her growth and on her character.  He tried to kill her without a thought, TWICE.  There's no excusing that.  Gaara didnt try to kill his teammates, fyi.  So there's still a limit somewhere.

It amazes me how ppl will excuse the worst shit for sake of their OTP.  Didnt I say side-shipping leads to fail arguments?  Why doesnt anyone listen to me.  And Sakura is not justified at all in hoping to get the old Sasuke back.  There is no living reason in the manga (from the characters' perspective) that anyone should believe Sasuke will just waltz back.  Its been years, he's only gotten worse, and has shown no hesitation about killing poor old Sakura (not once, twice).  The only one Sasuke respects is Naruto, but he has no qualms about killing him either.

Just because we can expect Sasuke's redemption for obvious plot reasons, doesn't mean the characters are justified in thinking the same thing.  After being almost murdered twice, Sakura should have zero hope for that outcome.  Its obviously causing her a great deal of grief, conflict, and trouble, and I cant imagine how ANYONE can argue its a good thing.  Kishi made it very stupidly obvious its bad.  There is absolutely no defensible counter argument...not a one.  Just lame excuse after lame excuse.

Btw, Sasuke doesn't even love Sakura..hell he doesnt even respect Sakura as a kunoichi.  How can anyone advocate a girl following after a guy who's never ever ever even liked her outside of the common bonds of being teammates.  He hates her as of right now, has tried to kill her in cold blood without a second thought, yet ppl think its okay?  Straight up, you can't be a Sakura fan and be an SS fan under these circumstances.  Period.  Anyone with half a brain and any real care for Sakura as a character would say "girl forget psychopath, you need to move on and do you".

Funny how everyone is quick to tell Naruto to "move on" cuz Sakura never liked him, yet those same ppl wont tell Sakura to "move on" even though her interest has not only never liked her, but tried killing her on multiple occasions.  Hell, he doesn't respect her in the slightest.  So please tell me, why the double standard.  Oh wait i know, shipping.  Get real.  No matter how hard you ship one thing wont change:  Sasuke. Does. Not. Love. Sakura. At all.  The most Sakura ever got was a thank you...thats it.  Oh but wait, Naruto got a "thank you" i guess that means its true love.  Get real.  The amount of double-standards totally disgusts me.

Bottom line:  Sakura needs to get over Sasuke to grow as a character.  And before someone says something stupid, no that doesnt mean she needs to become pairing fodder.  Her love for Sasuke has done nothing for her character but cause extreme problems, and the author has made it abundantly clear her love for Sasuke = damaging.  Even she realizes its not such a good thing right now, based on her depressed expression.  Not even arguable.  And if i see another tard argument, i refuse to dignify it with a response.   I feel like im beating a dead horse.


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## Arles Celes (May 29, 2011)

I wonder...does it mean that females in this manga should avoid relationships with pretty boys as such guys make the females crazily obessed and are a danger to their character overall? How do we know that Sakura's love for anyone else wouldn't have been just as obsessive?

If she fell in love with pretty boy Neji kun and he did not show her much attention either would it trash her character as well making her look pathetic?

Sasuke DID troll both Sakura and Naruto making them look overangsty but only after he decided to leave Konoha. Before that he was just a (part 1) Neji kind of guy IMO.

At this point if Sakura decided to fall in love with someone else her love might be not so obsessive(as she is a bit more mature) but then again who knows?

Anyway Kishi trolled her character so much(and Sasuke is hardly the only problem) so that there is no much to fix with her character. Her becoming a Naruto fangirl after realizing her true love for him would only take the the "abused housewife" part away...nothing more. The Pain invasion arc had shown how dependant she is of others and unable to do any mayor thing by herself.

Sakura: Naruto please return!. Naruto help!!(while Pain was owning Konoha)

Sheesh, even IF Kishi made her fall in love with fuxxxing Madara instead it still wouldn't destroy her character as it is already impossible to fix considering Kishi's hate for Sakura and his skill as writer. Kishi could have developed her character and make her more that just a love interest for either Naruto or Sasuke but he hardly did that. LOL if Sasuke is destroying her character then how do we know he wont keep destroying her character even if dies? Both Naruto and Sakura would go emo and become way more insupportable.

There is only one way to improve this. Sasuke must give up on revenge like...right now!! And work HARD to make up for the shit he did.

It is the only way to keep Naruto and Sakura from looking like idiots IMO. Lets face it, even if Sakura does give up on him as a possible romantic prospect she probably never will give up on him as a friend. And she will keep angsting over him and crying just like it is happening with Naruto.

Fix Sasuke's character Kishi...and it will drastically improve everything from that point IMO.


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## Fay (May 29, 2011)

It all comes down to the whim of the author and his writing team I think.


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## Mr Horrible (May 29, 2011)

CandleGuy said:


> Sakura says hello



Which is why the possibility of SS occurring is still so unlikely; because Sakura's continuing feelings for Sasuke can be so easily linked to her low self esteem.


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## Kuromaku (May 29, 2011)

So to answer the OP's question because everyone else is busy arguing pairings:

What it will take for Sakura to get over Sasuke is to: one, realize that no, he does not like her that way, and considering his eagerness to stab her ass (no innuendo intended), he likely never will like her that way.

Two, she needs to grow a backbone.  When she was talking to "Sasuke" in Chapter 3, it was clear that her reason for liking him stemmed from wanting his acknowledgment.  Here was the loser girl with a large forehead hoping for vindication from someone that appeared to be worth respecting the opinion of - the class heart throb himself.  Even now, it seems as if part of her self worth is still tied to him.  Girl, he tried to kill you.  Twice.  Develop some self-esteem and move on.  You don't need him to love you to be happy.  You need to love yourself.

Third, she needs to become more self-sufficient, tying in with my second point.  When she got mocked for her forehead, Ino was there to protect her.  Whenever she was almost run through by a Mist nin, Kakashi and Sasuke were there to stop this.  When Konoha was blown to smithereens, Naruto was there to save the day.  Whenever she lost faith, yet again, that Sasuke was redeemable, Naruto was there to provide a pretty speech.  She needs to get off her ass and surpass Tsunade at some point if any readers are planning to take her seriously.  She needs to stop praying for happy endings, and go out and make her own.

Fourth, and most importantly, it would require that Kishimoto write her as a real person and not a caricature of what he thinks a real girl is like.

And how likely is that?


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## cloudsymph (May 29, 2011)

Lacie said:


> *People aren't spamming KL with "When Will Naruto Give Up On The Sauce" threads.* Either way, Sakura and Sasuke's bond may not be as profound as Naruto and Sasuke's, but there were some moments when both of them expressed something akin to care to each other. Heck even Kakashi is reluctant to kill Sasuke because he loves him when Sasuke couldn't care less, yet I don't see Kakashi inciting all of the exasperation Sakura does. My point is, all of team 7 can get us very vexated with their fixation on Sasuke, I don't understand why Sakura has to shoulder most of it.



 you must be kidding me.

there aren't any atm because sakura was the most recent one shown to fapping to sasuke.

hell the rundown of the most prominent KL threads are pretty much:

sasuke is awesome i want to ravage him
sasuke is a fucking emo he should die
naruto is a fucking ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".), he needs to give up on sasuke
sakura needs to give up on sasuke
sakura fucking sucks - sakura bashing!!!!!!!!!!!!

on the side  there is  sasusaku, narusaku, naruhina and narusasu threads


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## DiScO (May 29, 2011)

AMtrack said:


> What? No the point doesn't fail.  No matter how you look at it, Sakura's love for Sasuke is flat-out damaging her physically, mentally, and emotionally.  This isnt about whether Sasuke will be redeemed, its about how much Sakura's love for Sasuke is shitting on her growth and on her character.  He tried to kill her without a thought, TWICE.  There's no excusing that.  Gaara didnt try to kill his teammates, fyi.  So there's still a limit somewhere.
> 
> It amazes me how ppl will excuse the worst shit for sake of their OTP.  Didnt I say side-shipping leads to fail arguments?  Why doesnt anyone listen to me.  And Sakura is not justified at all in hoping to get the old Sasuke back.  There is no living reason in the manga (from the characters' perspective) that anyone should believe Sasuke will just waltz back.  Its been years, he's only gotten worse, and has shown no hesitation about killing poor old Sakura (not once, twice).  The only one Sasuke respects is Naruto, but he has no qualms about killing him either.
> 
> ...



rep +
_____________
I agree with everything you said ________


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## Mr Horrible (May 29, 2011)

cloudsymph said:


> you must be kidding me.
> 
> there aren't any atm because sakura was the most recent one shown to fapping to sasuke.
> 
> ...



You forgot anything to do with either Nagato or Itachi


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## Arles Celes (May 29, 2011)

The thing is that even if Sakura decided to let go of her love for Sasuke I doubt she would let go of her feelings towards him as a dear friend.

And the result would be pretty much the same IMO. She would still be crying for him(like Naruto does) and probably would be similarly obsessed...only without the "love" factor.

However, I seriously doubt that even at her worst in part 2 Sakura ever did angst over Sasuke as much as she did only because she wanted to get into his pants as soon as possible. Where did Sakura ever think in part 2 something like,"I hope Sasuke returns to Konoha as soon as possible, as I cannot wait to date him!!" or anything similar?

I really doubt the pain that Sasuke is causing her is ONLY the result of love. So if love is gone she suddenly becomes all cheerful, starts training, and becomes kage level?

There are only 2 ways for Naruto and Sakura to stop angsting over Sasuke and those are:

a) Giving up on him COMPLETELY and no longer care for him in any possible way.

b) Sasuke becomes good again and works hard to make up for all the trouble he did.

That is pretty much it...


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## DiScO (May 29, 2011)

Arles Celes said:
			
		

> The thing is that even if Sakura decided to let go of her love for Sasuke I doubt she would let go of her feelings towards him as a dear friend.
> 
> And the result would be pretty much the same IMO. She would still be crying for him(like Naruto does) and probably would be similarly obsessed...only without the "love" factor.
> 
> ...


She should see in him a good comrade .Not more not less .Seing Sasuke as a good friend is also stupid because they weren`t friends .They didn`t even talk that much .Sasuke talked with her just in missions about their tactics and what they could do against the enemy ,while Naruto and Sauke had a friendship moment (aftre climping the tree )Lovin him is less stupid than seeing a friend in him ,because you *can *love someone even if this someonde didn`t do anything for you but you can`t call someone a friend if the person didn`t speak more than 10 words with you ..


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## Arles Celes (May 29, 2011)

^Actually when someone is quite mean to you it is quite likely that you will no longer see said person as a romantic prospect but as a friend either.

I've seen many broken couples that could hardly keep being friendly towards each other when the reason of the break up was one of them(or both) being mean towards the another.

And how is Sakura(or even Naruto) considering Sasuke as a good comrade any more reasonable than being with love with him? How exactly did Sasuke prove in part 2 to be still worthy of being a "good comrade"?

Even most family members with very strong bonds would give up on someone who is doing half the shit Sasuke did. It doesn't matter whether it is friendship or love or whatever...

If Kishi thinks that blind devotion is a good thing then so be it...

He should rather make Sasuke find his brain and conscience RIGHT AWAY so that he stops trolling himself and everyone around him.

Seriously forget Sakura...as Sasuke is by far the most trolled character in the whole manga. As a bonus Kishi simply decided to make him drag everyone along with him to the botomless pit of fail!

I wonder how he will make up for all that(both Kishi and Sasuke).


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## DiScO (May 29, 2011)

Arles Celes said:


> ^Actually when someone is quite mean to you it is quite likely that you will no longer see said person as a romantic prospect but as a friend either.



I know that its quit likey that you won`t love the person anymore ,but there are always exceptions ,like in Sakuras case.





> And how is Sakura(or even Naruto) considering Sasuke as a good comrade any more reasonable than being with love with him? How exactly did Sasuke prove in part 2 to be still worthy of being a "good comrade"?



Sasuke  was a good comrade in part 1 ,but he wasn`t a good firiend or a lover ,*was *is better than nothing..


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## Closet Pervert (May 29, 2011)

Yeah that part of the last chapter was epic fail. Otherwise, it was pretty good considering the way things have been lately.



Silver Fang said:


> I guess she still loves him for the same reasons women still love the jerk who beats them.
> 
> I don't really see what Sakura or Naruto's obsession with Sasuke is. But oh well. Nothing I can do about it.


Yeah but IRL women usually have a relationship with the jerk before the love part. Though some studies say women are attracted to men who show no interest in them. That would explain Hinata also.


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