# Auction Trio vs Monster Trio after Kaido



## Ren. (Mar 14, 2020)

How will this play out?
I WANT DETAILS ...

@Shiba D. Inu, @Mysticreader , @Nana, @Soca

Reactions: Like 3


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## Sherlōck (Mar 14, 2020)

Auction Trio wipes the floor with Monster Trio.


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## jamjamstyle (Mar 14, 2020)

Sanji didn't last 2 seconds against Doflamingo compared to what Law did. They get stomped.


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## Ren. (Mar 14, 2020)

jamjamstyle said:


> Sanji didn't last 2 seconds against Doflamingo compared to what Law did. They get stomped.


Zoro got KO by Killer, don't put this only on Sanji at least he shit diffed Page one.

Reactions: Like 1


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## rext1 (Mar 14, 2020)

Zoro held his own vs an Admiral,low-diffs everyone he comes across, is on the path to solo a Yonko FM(who's portrayed superior to Kid/Law) - Kid couldn't defeat Big Mom's commanders(and got bullied by Queen) and Law was mid-diffed by Doffy 1v1.

Oda's intentionally made sure the Grandmaster does not prematurely cross paths with King,Queen or Jack. Just so that they keep some hype for the end of arc war and don't get Pica'd by Zoro too early in the acts and become a laughing stock.

It truly comes down to whether Zoro defeats Kid or Law defeats Sanji first. Whoever gets the 2 v 1 advantage first wins.

However, if wano matchups pan out like many theorise and Zoro 1v1's King and Sanji 1v1's Queen. Than that would put both above Kid/Law btw. And this becomes a clean win for M3.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Patrick (Mar 14, 2020)

Luffy's two strongest crewmembers aren't already (if ever) stronger than Luffy's two main rivals/allies. Auction 3 high dif.

Reactions: Like 2


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## BigPoppaPump (Mar 14, 2020)

Patrick said:


> Luffy's two strongest crewmembers aren't already (if ever) stronger than Luffy's two main rivals/allies. Auction 3 high dif.



Zoro is definitely stronger than Law, I don't know about Kidd yet though but most likely.

Why do people act like Luffy has any other rivals other than Blackbeard? Law is his subordinate and Kidd looks like he's on his way there too.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Dunno (Mar 14, 2020)

Zoro is significantly stronger than his opponent, while Sanji is slightly weaker. The M3 win with upper end of high diff.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Ren. (Mar 14, 2020)

My take is very simple:

Law + Luffy: FS+ Advance COA + Snake man and Room, Luffy can't dodge Luffy that has FS + Snake man and Room changing the trajectory + Law used GN if needed.

Kid uses a Megazord and range moves to coop with Sanji and Zoro and also tinkers with Zoro's moves so they are less effective.

After Luffy is defeated by Law and Luffy.

Law takes Sanji.

And Luffy goes G4 KKG + Advance COA, Kid uses his Megazord to block all Zoro's moves and restricts his moves some more.

Luffy uses Fs and lands KKG+ Advance COA clean hit.

Zoro is done.


Then the 3 finish Sanji.

Conclusion M3 are fucked 

Now onto read the Z boys how Zoro is so much better Yada Yada.


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## rext1 (Mar 14, 2020)

Patrick said:


> Luffy's two strongest crewmembers aren't already (if ever) stronger than Luffy's two main rivals/allies. Auction 3 high dif.



We saw post TS Law's upper limits vs Doflamingo.

Zoro is honestly the only person aside from Luffy who seems to have the potential to 1v1 a Yonko FM this arc. Both Kid and Law have had less than stellar showings vs Yonko Commanders/Allies(Doffy).

Grandmaster made a good account of himself vs an Admiral. And had superior potrayal vs other Supernova he has encountered (Hawkings and Killa).

I dont know where this belief of Law being some god of battle comes from. He is a better assist/support character in battles as opposed to a straight up fighter. Physically, haki-wise and skill-wise IMO he is clearly below Zoro!

Reactions: Like 1


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## Ren. (Mar 14, 2020)

rext1 said:


> We saw post TS Law's upper limits vs Doflamingo.
> 
> Zoro is honestly the only person aside from Luffy who seems to have the potential to 1v1 a Yonko FM this arc. Both Kid and Law have had less than stellar showings vs Yonko Commanders/Allies(Doffy).
> 
> *Grandmaster made a good account of himself vs an Admiral*. And had superior potrayal vs other Supernova he has encountered (Hawkings and Killa)



*Spoiler*: __ 












Nothing from those that you mentioned are impressive.

Fujitora would low to neg diffs that DressRosa Zoro.


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## rext1 (Mar 14, 2020)

Ren. said:


> Nothing from those that you mentioned are impressive.
> 
> Fujitora would low to neg diffs that DressRosa Zoro.



You left out Zoro then proceeding to one-shot Killer.

And Zoro deflecting Fujitora's attack and driving him back with a slash.

And that Kyoshiro(who's very likely stronger than Doffy who low-diffed Law 1v1) just parried Zoro's attack and they got into a skirmish.

** Fuji effortlessly and casually pinned Law down with gravity and Law's only counter was to use his DF to escape when he was distracted - contrast that with Zoro who powered through it and even counter-attacked.

Zoro > Law. 


*

Reactions: Like 3


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## Shiba D. Inu (Mar 14, 2020)

AH3 win between mid-diff and high-diff


also Ope Ope shines even more in group fights


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## Ren. (Mar 14, 2020)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> AH3 win between mid-diff and high-diff
> 
> 
> also Ope Ope shines even more in group fights


In this kind of threads, you will see why many dislike Zoro supposed fans and not Zoro as a character.


rext1 said:


> You left out Zoro then proceeding to one-shot Killer.
> 
> And Zoro deflecting Fujitora's attack and driving him back with a slash.
> 
> ...


I dislike DD but he shits on anyone that is not G4 Luffy including Zoro in DressRosa.

Fuji if he uses his DF and COA he defeats Law + DD+ G4 Luffy + Zoro with low diff in DressRosa and I am not a big Admirals fan because you guessed it his fans.

Kyoshiro gets shitted by Katakuri with neg diff.

Fujitora destroyes Kata or King with mid diff.

And Law vs Zoro means Law lands Zero hits where Law lands only one GN with his mobility and Zoro is dead.

Reactions: Like 1


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## rext1 (Mar 14, 2020)

Ren. said:


> I dislike DD but he shits on anyone that is not G4 Luffy including Zoro in DressRosa.


Both Sabo and Fuji were on Dressrosa. I dont view Doffy as above Yonko Top Commanders, taking into account that Cracker did better against G4 Luffy than Doffy. Doffy is very likely < YC3.

If Zoro even fights and matches King/Queen blow for blow IMO he was also alongside Fuji/Sabo as someone who could defeat DD in Dressrosa.

We have seen Ino/Neko/Shutenmaru hold their own against Jack (a YC3 tier fighter). Its not a strech to think that their are multiple people on Wano who could have given DD a competitive fight or outright emerged the victor.



Ren. said:


> Kyoshiro gets shitted by Katakuri with neg diff.


If Kata defeats Kyoshiro(who is at minimum YC3) with low diff than he demolishes Doffyy with neg diff.




Ren. said:


> And Law vs Zoro means Law lands Zero hits where Law lands only one GN with his mobility and Zoro is dead.



Law fans really only have the "Law's opponent will slip up and he will land a One Hit Victory move" ignoring the fact that Law only achieves this in non 1v1 battles unless the opponent is weaker than himself.

Zoro has stronger haki than Law - Trafalger isnt going to be able to manipulate Zoro directly with his DF powers. 

Law's best combat feat post-TS is Vergo a Doflamingo executive. At no point has he outshone Zoro.

vs Fujitora: Zoro had better potrayal and feats
vs other Supernova's: Zoro straight up overwhelms Hawkins and Kid without the need to resort to trickery etc
vs Doflamingo Execs: Unlike Vergo who tortured and played with Law. Zoro was the aggressor here with Pica repeatedly fleeing and hiding inbetween attacks. Zolo eventually owned him

Zoro literally wields Oden's sword that marked up Kaido

Zoro is able to fight Yonko Top Commander caliber opponents like Kyoshiro

Reactions: Like 3


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## Ren. (Mar 14, 2020)

rext1 said:


> Both Sabo and Fuji were on Dressrosa. I dont view Doffy as above Yonko Top Commanders, taking into account that Cracker did better against G4 Luffy than Doffy. Doffy is very likely < YC3.
> 
> If Zoro even fights and matches King/Queen blow for blow IMO he was also alongside Fuji/Sabo as someone who could defeat DD in Dressrosa.
> 
> ...


This is not a Zoro thread, I already answered you, next time I will call the mods for off-topic.


rext1 said:


> If Kata defeats Kyoshiro(who is at minimum YC3) with low diff than he demolishes Doffyy with neg diff.


And G4 was shafter because of FS and G4 demolished DD that shits on Zoro in DressRosa.


rext1 said:


> Law fans


I am not a Law fan.

But Zoro never had better portait:

vs


Not even close.

Current portrait:


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## Beast (Mar 14, 2020)

Luffy vs luffy 
Kidd vs Zoro 
Law vs Sanji

Luffy>~ Kidd> Law> Zoro> Sanji 

You just have to have common sense.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Cyrus the Cactus (Mar 14, 2020)

Ren. said:


> This is not a Zoro thread, I already answered you, next time I will call the mods for off-topic.
> 
> And G4 was shafter because of FS and G4 demolished DD that shits on Zoro in DressRosa.
> 
> ...



Zoro used an upgraded version of a move that debuted in East Blue, with no hint of his EL powerup in sight.

Law used his biggest Room to date, and larger rooms can reduce his life span (that might just be due to fatigue though).

And why are LLK sharing a panel different than the millions of times Luffy and Zoro have shared a panel? Remember when Capone and Caesar had a similar panel setup in WCI?


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## Ren. (Mar 14, 2020)

MasterBeast said:


> Luffy> Kidd> Law> Zoro> Sanji


Fixed and we agree

Reactions: Like 1


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## T.D.A (Mar 14, 2020)

Monster trio they would actually work together as a team, chemistry >>>>. Kidd doesn't even get along with Luffy.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Ren. (Mar 14, 2020)

Cyrus the Cactus said:


> Zoro used an upgraded version of a move that debuted in East Blue, with no hint of his EL powerup in sight.
> 
> Law used his biggest Room to date, and larger rooms can reduce his life span (that might just be due to fatigue though).
> 
> And why are LLK sharing a panel different than the millions of times Luffy and Zoro have shared a panel? Remember when Capone and Caesar had a similar panel setup in WCI?


Typical Zoro uses 1% and Law used 100% .

Pro tip Law's move one-shots Vergo > Pica and it is a non named move  >>> Zoro's biggest cut that is a named move( and just below the Asura from pre TS)

And Assura was shit in Shabondy, not the god move that you all know:


The only thing it defeated was Kaku:


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## T.D.A (Mar 14, 2020)

MasterBeast said:


> Luffy vs luffy
> Kidd vs Zoro
> Law vs Sanji
> 
> ...



Zoro would cut Kidd's other arm. You know it


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## Beast (Mar 14, 2020)

Zoro slashing Kaidou isn’t even going to be enough to put him above Law, Kidd and luffy.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Mar 14, 2020)

Cyrus the Cactus said:


> larger rooms can reduce his life span


?


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## Ren. (Mar 14, 2020)

T.D.A said:


> Monster trio they would actually work together as a team, chemistry >>>>. Kidd doesn't even get along with Luffy.


Law is one of the best support ever:


G4 + Law shit with low diff on Zoro+ Sanji.


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## Cyrus the Cactus (Mar 14, 2020)

Ren. said:


> Typical Zoro uses 1% and Law used 100% .
> 
> Pro tip Law's move one-shots Vergo > Pica and it is a non named move  >>> Zoro's biggest cut that is a named move( and just below the Asura from pre TS)
> 
> ...



I'm not saying it's a god move Mr. Strawman, I'm saying that what he's displayed isn't his cap. Then there's Enma training on top of that while Law hasn't been confirmed any stronger than his Dressrosa self.


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## Beast (Mar 14, 2020)

Law has to die for Zoro to become WSS. 

Kidds in luffys league.


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## Cyrus the Cactus (Mar 14, 2020)

Ren. said:


> G4 + Law shit with low diff on Zoro+ Sanji.



If this is Luffy/Zoro/Sanji vs Luffy/Kid/Law, how does G4 + Law help when there's another G4 on the other side?


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## T.D.A (Mar 14, 2020)

@Ren. Luffy with his closest nakama > Luffy with Kidd and Law

Zoro can equal or best Law/Kidd

Sanji with his invisible raid suit and quickness will be a huge advantage in a team battle.

Monster trio would also look out for each other while Kidd would be thinking about himself.

High diff to M3


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## Ren. (Mar 14, 2020)

Cyrus the Cactus said:


> I'm not saying it's a god move Mr. Strawman, I'm saying that what he's displayed isn't his cap. Then there's Enma training on top of that while Law hasn't been confirmed any stronger than his Dressrosa self.


Mystery fallacy.

When did you see Law's cap if you are including Enma?

This is not the WG forum.

You are downplaying Law and saying that Zoro has no cap when in fact it was seen in a lot of skirmishes being dominated by casual players:


Ren. said:


> Nothing from those that you mentioned are impressive.
> 
> Fujitora would low to neg diffs that DressRosa Zoro.



Read the post, the context was only about Law beein better support vs sanji or Zoro.!



Cyrus the Cactus said:


> If this is Luffy/Zoro/Sanji vs Luffy/Kid/Law, how does G4 + Law help when there's another G4 on the other side?


Read the post, the context was only about Law been better support vs Sanji or Zoro!


T.D.A said:


> Monster trio they would actually work together as a team, chemistry >>>>


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## Beast (Mar 14, 2020)

T.D.A said:


> @Ren. Luffy with his closest nakama > Luffy with Kidd and Law
> 
> Zoro can equal or best Law/Kidd
> 
> ...


Too bad for you, as the chapter made it painfully clear. 

Kidd hates losing more then teaming up. 

He will strip Zoros Swords off him.

Law will switch Zoros and Sanjis hearts and have them kill each other. 

Luffy is gonna fight luffy.


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## T.D.A (Mar 14, 2020)

Ren. said:


> Law is one of the best support ever:
> 
> 
> G4 + Law shit with low diff on Zoro+ Sanji.



That's why M3 will high diff

Reactions: Like 2


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## Ren. (Mar 14, 2020)

Cyrus the Cactus said:


> If this is Luffy/Zoro/Sanji vs Luffy/Kid/Law, how does G4 + Law help when there's another G4 on the other side?





Ren. said:


> My take is very simple:
> 
> Law + Luffy: FS+ Advance COA + Snake man and Room, Luffy can't dodge Luffy that has FS + Snake man and Room changing the trajectory + Law used GN if needed.
> 
> ...



You guys don't even read what was posted before


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## Beast (Mar 14, 2020)

It’s the Auction trio that will beat Kaidou not M3, come on now.


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## Ruse (Mar 14, 2020)

Luffy > Kid > Zoro > Law > Sanji but as tda said M3 will have better teamwork tbh need to see more Luffy and Law the only ones on that list that have gone all out

Reactions: Like 1


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## Cyrus the Cactus (Mar 14, 2020)

Ren. said:


> Mystery fallacy.
> 
> When did you see Law's cap if you are including Enma?
> 
> ...



Read what I said, there's nothing showing that Wano Law is significantly stronger than Dressrosa Law. Has he been training? Did he get any new power ups? Isn't that another mystery fallacy?

And how would Law do against Killer and Kyoshiro? We already have a direct comparison between Law and Zoro in dealing with Fuji's gravity. Law had to capitalize on a distraction to escape it, Zoro could brute force his way through it.

And you're acting like Zoro OR Law doing badly against an admiral is supposed to be a demerit? Fuji >> Kid and Law, so even looking "bad" against Fuji doesn't really mean much in Law vs Zoro.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Ren. (Mar 14, 2020)

Cyrus the Cactus said:


> Read what I said, there's nothing showing that Wano Law is significantly stronger than Dressrosa Law. Has he been training? Did he get any new power ups? Isn't that another mystery fallacy?
> 
> And how would Law do against Killer and Kyoshiro? We already have a direct comparison between Law and Zoro in dealing with Fuji's gravity. Law had to capitalize on a distraction to escape it, Zoro could brute force his way through it.
> 
> And you're acting like Zoro OR Law doing badly against an admiral is supposed to be a demerit? Fuji >> Kid and Law, so even looking "bad" against Fuji doesn't really mean much in Law vs Zoro.





Ren. said:


> This is not a Zoro thread, I already answered you, next time I will call the mods for off-topic.



Mate, you are using double standards aka the WG standards and be aware that a mod from there was banned when discussing with @Redline!

Zoro had a bad showing against Fujitora, even vs PIca when he needed Ourloumbus, He had bad showing vs Hawkins when he was wounded and overpowered by a doll, he was wounded and KO by the Killer fight.

Now you gonna bullshit me that Law stayed the same to what, when did you see him perform all out against someone that is Zoro level?

He faced Fuji + DD and DD alone 2 times than with Luffy and he almost killed DD.

Well Fuji can neg diff Zoro in Dressrosa and DD can mid-high diff Zoro in DressRosa with awakening, the King fight never happened and Law will fight Kaido with  Luffy so meh.

If for you that was a crap portrait then what killer did to Zoro is shit portrait.


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## Beast (Mar 14, 2020)

How could anyone put Zoro above law after this chapter?

Zoro fights king and gets a scratch on Kaidou? That’s going to be his biggest achievements if that’s not stolen from him.

Law will go on to fight Kaidou and win alongside Luffy and Kidd, you could twist it this and that way but Law is frying  bigger fish along with his bros.

Don’t be foolish now.


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## Cyrus the Cactus (Mar 14, 2020)

How is this not partially a Zoro thread? It's Luffy/Law/Kid vs Luffy/Zoro/Sanji, right?


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## Shiba D. Inu (Mar 14, 2020)

invisibility is USELESS

RS Sanji lacks killing damage compared to the others, even Page 1 walked it off


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## Ren. (Mar 14, 2020)

Cyrus the Cactus said:


> How is this not partially a Zoro thread? It's Luffy/Law/Kid vs Luffy/Zoro/Sanji, right?


It is about 5 characters, you only talk about Zoro and this thread is not about Zoro just because Zoro is one of the 5 characters.

You made it only about Zoro so that is off-topic.

I warned you.


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## T.D.A (Mar 14, 2020)

MasterBeast said:


> Too bad for you, as the chapter made it painfully clear.
> 
> Kidd hates losing more then teaming up.
> 
> ...



Kidd ain't taking any of Zoro's swords. 

Wait maybe he can take Enma and his haki gets drained the f out of him. 

Lol own goal for you


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## Ren. (Mar 14, 2020)

Disregarding the obvious Z boys the pool does not look bad at all!


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## Cyrus the Cactus (Mar 14, 2020)

Ren. said:


> It is about 5 characters, you only talk about Zoro and this thread is not about Zoro just because Zoro is one of the 5 characters.
> 
> You made it only about Zoro so that is off-topic.
> 
> I warned you.



...Zoro is still involved though? Are you gonna report every person who only talks about a single character in this match up or something?


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## Ren. (Mar 14, 2020)

Cyrus the Cactus said:


> ...Zoro is still involved though? Are you gonna report every person who only talk about a single character in this match up or something?


If it is only about that character yes.

All your posts are about Zoro!

You either talk about all 5, the teams or you are quite off-topic.


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## Muah (Mar 14, 2020)

Ren. said:


> Zoro got KO by Killer, don't put this only on Sanji at least he shit diffed Page one.


Seriously it's like Sanji never saved the crew from certain death. Zoro was literally incapable of even being there.


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## Ren. (Mar 14, 2020)

Muah said:


> Seriously it's like Sanji never saved the crew from certain death. Zoro was literally incapable of even being there.


Ignore them:


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## T.D.A (Mar 14, 2020)

@Kinjin this is just a hate thread in disguise

Reactions: Like 1


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## Ren. (Mar 14, 2020)

T.D.A said:


> @Kinjin this is just a hate thread in disguise


@Soca  can you remove this post.

Just because he does not like the thread, the other enjoy posting, and I don't remember his opinions being laws in here.

And the pool is quite dynamic from what I see.


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## Cyrus the Cactus (Mar 14, 2020)

Ren. said:


> If it is only about that character yes.
> 
> All your posts are about Zoro!
> 
> You either talk about all 5, the teams or you are quite off-topic.



Aren't your posts about me being off topic actually off topic? I'm talking about a contribution to the fight, you're crying about one factor of the fight.

And this thread is premature anyways. We don't really have up to date feats to go off of, so we can only rely on headcanon. How good is Sanji's invisibility? What level of CoO is needed to counter it? How strong is KId? Kid's haki? Has Law grown much/at all? Same with Z*r*


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## Beast (Mar 14, 2020)

T.D.A said:


> Kidd ain't taking any of Zoro's swords.
> 
> Wait maybe he can take Enma and his haki gets drained the f out of him.
> 
> Lol own goal for you


Not he can, he will.... then toss it away because it’s useless to him.


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## Ren. (Mar 14, 2020)

Cyrus the Cactus said:


> And this thread is premature anyways.


That is not for you to decide, it is for me and the other that do post about all combatants and not only how unfair is to not put Zoro at a uber level.


Cyrus the Cactus said:


> Aren't your posts about me being off topic actually off topic?


I talked about all 5 including Zoro and Sanji in the first post so no I am not!


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## T.D.A (Mar 14, 2020)

We were mistaken into thinking @Ren. created a serious thread. But he is still going on with his anti Zoro jihad.


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## Ren. (Mar 14, 2020)

T.D.A said:


> We were mistaken into thinking @Ren. created a serious thread. But he is still going on with his anti Zoro jihad.


@Soca can you please warn this user.

We all don't have to have his opinions and not anything that is not wank is anti-Zoro.

Also warn him that he is trying to close the thread because he does not like what the other say about the fight, not that  I care.

Also @TheWiggian I will report you the first time you start negging this is the 5h time and your Rep should be sealed if you start negging because you don't like what other post.

@Red Admiral , @DeVision @Lurker , @Redline you can also post.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Mar 14, 2020)

Law is stupid broken in a team fight. 

Sanji is trash

Auction house trio win, switch law with Sanji then Luffy, Zoro, and Law would win.



MasterBeast said:


> How could anyone put Zoro above law after this chapter?
> 
> Zoro fights king and gets a scratch on Kaidou? That’s going to be his biggest achievements if that’s not stolen from him.
> 
> ...



We knew Law was gonna help take down Kaidou since Punk Hazord. This is nothing new.

Zoro still cuts him in half.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Gledania (Mar 14, 2020)

MasterBeast said:


> He will strip Zoros Swords off him.



Just like he did with Shanks ?


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## Bonney (Mar 14, 2020)

Stop crying out to the mods dude, Ignore them if they don't try to address your arguments.  

Auction house trio should win. 

The number one factor in this one is that Law is very dangerous as a support, nothing would stop him from using room & shambles tricks to help Luffy land a huge hit like King Kong gun on Sanji or Zoro (like what he did during the Doflamingo fight), I can't see them evading a surprise shambles Black Mamba or King Cobra from a Snakeman Luffy even if they knew it was coming. He could also use it to ensure him or Kidd don't get hit by the other Luffy.


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## Beast (Mar 14, 2020)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> We knew Law was gonna help take down Kaidou since Punk Hazord. This is nothing new.
> 
> Zoro still cuts him in half.


people had their doubts, Zoro slashing Kaidou is his biggest hype that hasn’t happened yet. Law like the big boys will cause damage to Kaidou as well as react, dodge and counter while also moving the other two around.


Zoro would need his other eye back if he wants chance at Law.


Gledania said:


> Just like he did with Shanks ?


exactly, but Zoro is only a Swordsman unlike Shanks, so he doesn’t have any techniques worth a damn outside his swords. 

Shanks was merciless using his grand haki to RIP out Kidds arm and yet, Kidd still walked away with his full crew and Rogers egg.

Kidd beat up BMs sweet commander and took what was his. 

Kidd rolled up on Shanks, yes he lost a hand but he gain Rogers treasured egg. 

Kidd betrayed by Apoo but still fought Kaidou till he couldn’t anymore, he then went on escape from Kaidous captivity single handily figuratively and literally because he has only one hand. 

BB... BB is next for Kidd unless Goda wills it not.


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## Kinjin (Mar 14, 2020)

Just cut it down everyone and stay on topic please.


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## Ren. (Mar 14, 2020)

Serenity said:


> The number one factor in this one is that Law is very dangerous as a support, nothing would stop him from using room & shambles tricks to help Luffy land a huge hit like King Kong gun on Sanji or Zoro (like what he did during the Doflamingo fight), I can't see them evading a surprise shambles Black Mamba or King Cobra from a Snakeman Luffy even if they knew it was coming. He could also use it to ensure him or Kidd don't get hit by the other Luffy.





Ren. said:


> My take is very simple:
> 
> Law + Luffy: FS+ Advance COA + Snake man and Room, Luffy can't dodge Luffy that has FS + Snake man and Room changing the trajectory + Law used GN if needed.
> 
> ...


We think alike.


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## DeVision (Mar 14, 2020)

For me auction trio.

As someone said, Law is just too OP for a team battle.
I voted high dif, but if Kid can take care of Zoro's swords it would be a mid dif or even worse.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Beast (Mar 14, 2020)

Kidd could potentially solo Zoro and Sanji.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Shiba D. Inu (Mar 14, 2020)

Law can also teleport swords out of Zoros hands


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## Ren. (Mar 14, 2020)

MasterBeast said:


> Kidd could potentially solo Zoro and Sanji.


I disagree, that would only work if he can take Zoro's swords away +  equal to Luffy.


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## TheWiggian (Mar 14, 2020)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> Law can also teleport swords out of Zoros hands



Just like he teleported Doflamingo's pistol out of his pants and Fujitora's sword?

Reactions: Like 5


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## Fel1x (Mar 14, 2020)

3 Yonko > 1 Yonko and 2 YCs


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## Shiba D. Inu (Mar 14, 2020)

TheWiggian said:


> Just like he teleported Doflamingo's pistol out of his pants and Fujitora's sword?


he was pretty wounded already in both those cases
plus IIRC he never really fought Fuji, only ran from him
and DD doesnt need a pistol to fight and Fuji still has his DF without a sword
but swordless Zoro is like 5x-10x weaker 

also PIS  we know he can teleport objects freely

Reactions: Like 1


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## Ren. (Mar 14, 2020)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> he was pretty wounded already in both those cases
> plus IIRC he never really fought Fuji, only ran from him
> and DD doesnt need a pistol to fight and Fuji still has his DF without a sword
> but swordless Zoro is like 5x-10x weaker
> ...




He swapped Sanji's soul but no he can't some swords because


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## TheWiggian (Mar 14, 2020)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> he was pretty wounded already in both those cases
> plus IIRC he never really fought Fuji, only ran from him
> and DD doesnt need a pistol to fight and Fuji still has his DF without a sword
> but swordless Zoro is like 5x-10x weaker
> ...



Just like he can soul swap freely?

Reactions: Like 1


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## Gledania (Mar 14, 2020)

MasterBeast said:


> exactly, but Zoro is only a Swordsman unlike Shanks, so he doesn’t have any techniques worth a damn outside his swords.
> 
> Shanks was merciless using his grand haki to RIP out Kidds arm and yet, Kidd still walked away with his full crew and Rogers egg.



 I struggle to know wether your serious or not.
Hope you're not.


MasterBeast said:


> Kidd beat up BMs sweet commander and took what was his



Who ? Snack ?




MasterBeast said:


> Kidd betrayed by Apoo but still fought Kaidou till he couldn’t anymore



Same goes for killer


Injuried =/= defeating.
For all we know it might have been a blind side.


MasterBeast said:


> BB... BB is next for Kidd unless Goda wills it not.



It won't. Kidd will have his "rivalry" moment and then get forgoten. Thos is luffy's manga.

Reactions: Like 1


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## TheWiggian (Mar 14, 2020)

Fel1x said:


> 3 Yonko > 1 Yonko and 2 YCs



Must say alot about the yonks if any clown that is in the same panel as Luffy can be called like that.


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## Fel1x (Mar 14, 2020)

TheWiggian said:


> Must say alot about the yonks if any clown that is in the same panel as Luffy can be called like that.


I don't see any problem with calling them future yonko trio


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## BigPoppaPump (Mar 14, 2020)

I can't believe people rate law so highly, out of these 5 characters only Sanji is weaker than him and even that is very close. He's a one trick pony once you figure out his devil fruit he's weak, Zoro would cut through all that shambles bullshit.

Kidd and Law are no match for Luffy, they would have no chance against the Yonko without him.


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## TheWiggian (Mar 14, 2020)

Fel1x said:


> I don't see any problem with calling them future yonko trio



With the difference that there are no mere yonko when there is a PK.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Ren. (Mar 14, 2020)

Fel1x said:


> I don't see any problem with calling them future yonko trio


He has no problem calling Zoro a FM when his Last fight was Pica.

Those will just defeat  Kaido, meanwhile, Admirals are hunting Buggy and said no to Wano because of Samurais.


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## Beast (Mar 14, 2020)

Gledania said:


> I struggle to know wether your serious or not.
> Hope you're not.
> 
> 
> ...


 

Not snack, snack was beat by urouge, Kidd put the work on smoothie, that’s why she’s even scared to hit metal doors now. 

Killer is back up and didn’t have the same will as Kidd, so he probably got 1HKO’d, kidd Kidd fought in his steed.

Kidds got the egg bruh. The freak egg, it’s no longer just a luffy show.


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## Ren. (Mar 14, 2020)

MasterBeast said:


> Kidds got the egg bruh. The freak egg, it’s no longer just a luffy show.


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## T.D.A (Mar 14, 2020)

While we're at it, might as well say Kidd/Law > Shanks, Mihawk, Roger, Rayleigh since tHeY cAn ReMoVe tHeIr SwOrDs


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## Shiba D. Inu (Mar 14, 2020)

MasterBeast said:


> it’s no longer just a luffy show.


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## Gledania (Mar 14, 2020)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> Law can also teleport swords out of Zoros hands


Using that logic , law can teleport Kidd , Luffy , Zoro and Sanji , all of them in the same time and throw them into water, killing the 2 DF users , and sending zoro and Sanji wherever he which.

You don't see a problem here ?



MasterBeast said:


> it’s no longer just a luffy show.


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## Beast (Mar 14, 2020)

T.D.A said:


> While we're at it, might as well say Kidd/Law > Shanks, Mihawk, Roger, Rayleigh since tHeY cAn ReMoVe tHeIr SwOrDs


Mihawk might have trouble but others aren’t just Swordsman.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Mar 14, 2020)

Gledania said:


> Using that logic , law can teleport Kidd , Luffy , Zoro and Sanji , all of them in the same time and throw them into water, killing the 2 DF users , and sending zoro and Sanji wherever he which.
> 
> You don't see a problem here ?


nope
shambles/teleport is an ability he has


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## T.D.A (Mar 14, 2020)

MasterBeast said:


> Mihawk might have trouble but others aren’t just Swordsman.



Zoro can use haki too

Reactions: Like 1


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## Ren. (Mar 14, 2020)

T.D.A said:


> Shanks, Mihawk, Roger, Rayleigh since tHeY cAn ReMoVe tHeIr SwOrDs


Yes because these are not top tier stronger than kid by much with COA that can shit even on current Luffy.

You have a sword you are a Zoro now.

Straw men for everyone.


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## TheWiggian (Mar 14, 2020)

Ren. said:


> He has no problem calling Zoro a FM when his Last fight was Pica.
> 
> Those will just defeat  Kaido, meanwhile, Admirals are hunting Buggy and said no to Wano because of Samurais.



Iam not sure you can count properly but he joined first as the deuteragonist being 1 of the 3 core members of the strawhats and all evidence points to him being the FM but why would he have more importance than some filler character's added on behalf of Oda's editors because SA would've been a bit stale at that time.

Hobby readers amaze me

Reactions: Like 1


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## Beast (Mar 14, 2020)

T.D.A said:


> Zoro can use haki too


You need CoC


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## Ren. (Mar 14, 2020)

TheWiggian said:


> Iam not sure you can count properly but he joined first as the deuteragonist being 1 of the 3 core members of the strawhats and all evidence points to him being the FM but why would he have more importance than some filler character's added on behalf of Oda's editors because SA would've been a bit stale at that time.


Oda said that Kid is and was made to Rival Luffy.

He never said that his crew will rival him.

Two-piece readers are always fascinating when they believe that the OP world was made just for the SHP to dominate the rest.


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## Gledania (Mar 14, 2020)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> nope
> shambles/teleport is an ability he has



Guess that make law the dumbest char ever been for not teleporting Fuji and DD on the sea ... no diffing them in one hit.

See where it leads ?



Ren. said:


> Oda said that Kid is and was made to Rival Luffy.


No.

He said he will be important.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Shiba D. Inu (Mar 14, 2020)

Gledania said:


> See where it leads ?


nope


Ope Ope is too much for Odas brain

@Gledania up to you to prove that Zoro can deal with Kidd/Law yoinking his swords


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## T.D.A (Mar 14, 2020)

Mofos when they realise their arguments about disarming/teleporting Zoro in theory applies to Kidd/Law vs top tiers like Shanks, Mihawk, Rayleigh etc:


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## TheWiggian (Mar 14, 2020)

Ren. said:


> Oda said that Kid is and was made to Rival Luffy.
> 
> He never said that his crew will rival him



Yes, he did a marvelous job doing that, couldn't even defeat a SC, his partner was mentally broken, his bounty is closer to Sanji and Zoro and even below Law. 

Those aguments are well constructed, Sanji might as well be Luffy's rival too


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## Shiba D. Inu (Mar 14, 2020)

T.D.A said:


> Mofos when they realise their arguments about disarming/teleporting Zoro in theory applies to Kidd/Law vs top tiers like Shanks, Mihawk, Rayleigh etc:


> cant argue for featless Zoro, so have to bring up random top-tiers


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## T.D.A (Mar 14, 2020)

MasterBeast said:


> You need CoC



Zoro has a coc too


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## Shiba D. Inu (Mar 14, 2020)

T.D.A said:


> Zoro has a coc too


but he doesnt use it


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## T.D.A (Mar 14, 2020)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> > cant argue for featless Zoro, so have to bring up random top-tiers



Mihawk's pretty featless in that case.

Kidd/Law > Mihawk = Vista


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## rext1 (Mar 14, 2020)

Zoro straight up looks invincible all throughout post timeskip.

Whilst Kid and Law take L after L. Fans only rate them higher coz of muh' Captain status!! They cant look past the ranks.

Kid and Law have ridiculously underperformed post-TS. 

*Without Smoker's intervention Law was going to lose to Vergo*
*without Luffy ,DD would have low-diffed Law*
*Kid gets offpanelled by Kaido*
*Kid loses FM*
*Kid gets tortured repeatedly by Queen*
*Kid gets captured by fodder underlings at prison*

Reactions: Like 3


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## Shiba D. Inu (Mar 14, 2020)

T.D.A said:


> Mihawk's pretty featless in that case.
> 
> Kidd/Law > Mihawk = Vista


i repeat
>cant argue for featless Zoro, so have to bring up Mihawk/Vista

>Zoro looks invincible against Pica



but not against Yeti Bros or Killer

Reactions: Like 1


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## Ren. (Mar 14, 2020)

TheWiggian said:


> Yes, he did a marvelous job doing that, couldn't even defeat a SC, his partner was mentally broken, his bounty is closer to Sanji and Zoro and even below Law.
> 
> Those aguments are well constructed, Sanji might as well be Luffy's rival too


Yes, the same as for Zoro being strong as Luffy with his marvelous track record of defeating Pica with assistance and yeah getting KO by the mentally broken partner of Kid.

To this moment Kid's L are to BM, Shanks and Kaido, not Hawkins and Killer.


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## Beast (Mar 14, 2020)

TheWiggian said:


> Yes, he did a marvelous job doing that, couldn't even defeat a SC, his partner was mentally broken, his bounty is closer to Sanji and Zoro and even below Law.
> 
> Those aguments are well constructed, Sanji might as well be Luffy's rival too


Come on now bruh. 

Kidd did what he wanted and bounced, don’t let fake news Morgan tell you otherwise. 

Kidds bounty is much much closer to law’s 500M then Sanji or Zoro lol, his bounty is what 30M off lol, no need to stoop to lying.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Shiba D. Inu (Mar 14, 2020)

Zoro could have low diffed Kyo if he wanted to


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## T.D.A (Mar 14, 2020)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> i repeat
> >cant argue for featless Zoro, so have to bring up Mihawk/Vista



List me Kidd's feats since timeskip


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## Shiba D. Inu (Mar 14, 2020)

T.D.A said:


> List me Kidd's feats since timeskip


i cant 
but
swords are made of metal


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## TheWiggian (Mar 14, 2020)

Ren. said:


> Yes, the same as for Zoro being strong as Luffy with his marvelous track record of defeating Pica with assistance and yeah getting KO by the mentally broken partner of Kid.
> 
> To this moment Kid's L are to BM, Shanks and Kaido, not Hawkins and Killer.



You forgot Pacifista, Snack, Queen and some fodders that captured him and brought him back to Udon. 



Gonna wait for you to show me where i claimed Zoro <=> Luffy

Reactions: Like 2


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## Ren. (Mar 14, 2020)

Neah I dislike this thread because of @Ren.  is Anti Zoro

Let me make this thread about Zoro @T.D.A 

Now I like it


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## Dunno (Mar 14, 2020)

Zoro's feats against Fujitora are better than anyone here has shown against any top tier. Escpecially in their second encounter.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Ren. (Mar 14, 2020)

TheWiggian said:


> You forgot Pacifista, Snack, Queen and some fodders that captured him and brought him back to Udon.


I stopped at Killer KOed Zoro.

Pacifista that made Assura Irelevent Pre TS.


Queen that is way above Killer, got it.

Snack did what to kid?


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## Shiba D. Inu (Mar 14, 2020)

Fuji lowers himself to low YC lvl whenever he fights a SH


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## TheWiggian (Mar 14, 2020)

MasterBeast said:


> Come on now bruh.
> 
> Kidd did what he wanted and bounced, don’t let fake news Morgan tell you otherwise.
> 
> Kidds bounty is much much closer to law’s 500M then Sanji or Zoro lol, his bounty is what 30M off lol, no need to stoop to lying.



Who lies? He's a captain and yet far below Luffy's bounty and much closer to Sanji and Zoro. 

Drop the hate mate. If we go by the feats you guys keep using for Luffy > Zoro and Sanji the same applies to Luffy > Kidd and Law.

This is being neutral.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Dunno (Mar 14, 2020)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> Fuji lowers himself to low YC lvl whenever he fights a SH


And Luffy still couldn't stop him.

Reactions: Like 2


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## T.D.A (Mar 14, 2020)

How did Kidd lose his arm? 

sOmEoNe uSeD a plAsTic wEapOn oR uSeD bRuTe StReNgTh tO pUlL oFf HiS aRm

Reactions: Like 2


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## Ren. (Mar 14, 2020)

Dunno said:


> Zoro's feats against Fujitora are better than anyone here has shown against any top tier. Escpecially in their second encounter.





No Luffy and Sabo have better feats vs Fujitora.


As you can see he even scratches Fuji.


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## Luis209 (Mar 14, 2020)

We have yet to know how strong exacly are Kidd and RS Sanji, but I will have to give the advantage to Straw hats. They know each other better and in my opinion current Zoro is stronger than current Kidd and RS Sanji should be perfectly comparable if not stronger than Law.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Beast (Mar 14, 2020)

rext1 said:


> Zoro straight up looks invincible all throughout post timeskip.
> 
> Whilst Kid and Law take L after L. Fans only rate them higher coz of muh' Captain status!! They cant look past the ranks.
> 
> ...


Rext, you have to do better bruh. 

Law 1HKO’d vergo 

DD would low diff Zoro and the Shs together. 

Everything not named Luffy vs has been offpanelled, not thatbits a bad thing. Kidd was hyped to have stood better then luffy who was 1HKO’d and is stronger then Zoro. 


Kidd lost FM while nerfed still knocked out Zoro. 

Is being tortured meant to be an L? 
BM was being played with when she was in custody, so you think Zoro can do better?

Fodder captured Zoro as well.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Gledania (Mar 14, 2020)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> >Zoro looks invincible against Pica
> 
> 
> 
> but not against Yeti Bros or Killer



Law can teleport kizaru Aokiji and Akainu in water and win.

If your okay with that then I'm fine with law being the strongest dude in one piece.
(I said law but the exact word is Ope Ope)


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## Dunno (Mar 14, 2020)

Ren. said:


> No Luffy and Sabo have better feats vs Fujitora.


Zoro was caught off-guard. When Jozu got caught off-guard by Aokiji, he went down. When Big Mom was caught off-guard by King, she went down. When Luffy wasn't caught off-guard by Kaido, he went down. When Zoro was caught off-guard by Fujitora, he took some damage and then managed to push him back.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Gledania (Mar 14, 2020)

MasterBeast said:


> Kidd was hyped to have stood better then luffy who was 1HKO’d



Same for killer.
Killer > luffy right ?

Reactions: Like 1


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## TheWiggian (Mar 14, 2020)

Ren. said:


> I stopped at Killer KOed Zoro.
> 
> Pacifista that made Assura Irelevent Pre TS.
> 
> ...



Snack embarrassed him and he ran away like a dog with his tail between his legs.

Reactions: Like 3


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## T.D.A (Mar 14, 2020)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> i cant
> but
> swords are made of metal



So Kidd > Shanks/Mihawk


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## Shiba D. Inu (Mar 14, 2020)

Gledania said:


> Law can teleport kizaru Aokiji and Akainu in water and win.
> 
> If your okay with that then I'm fine with law being the strongest dude in one piece.
> (I said law but the exact word is Ope Ope)


Zoro fainted from Killer the same as Drake fainted from a bare shoulder


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## Beast (Mar 14, 2020)

TheWiggian said:


> Who lies? He's a captain and yet far below Luffy's bounty and much closer to Sanji and Zoro.
> 
> Drop the hate mate. If we go by the feats you guys keep using for Luffy > Zoro and Sanji the same applies to Luffy > Kidd and Law.
> 
> This is being neutral.


You said His bounty is closer to Sanjis then Laws but that’s a lie. Laws bounty is closer to sanjis then luffys so what?
Sanjis biunty is higher then Zoros... let’s first go past that then come for law or Kidd. 



Kidd has been portrayed to be Luffys equal. Kidd doesn’t have any feats outside matching base luffy in prison. 


No, you’re being completely biased if I’m honest. Zoro isn’t in the same league as Kidd hype/ portrayal wise.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Shiba D. Inu (Mar 14, 2020)

T.D.A said:


> So Kidd > Shanks/Mihawk


their grip strength > current Kidds magnetism


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## Dunno (Mar 14, 2020)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> @Gledania up to you to prove that Zoro can deal with Kidd/Law yoinking his swords


Pulling Zoro's swords towards yourself is probably the stupidest thing anyone could ever do.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Beast (Mar 14, 2020)

Only zoro fans could make up lies and believe it.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Mar 14, 2020)

> Kidd has been portrayed to be Luffys equal.


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## Beast (Mar 14, 2020)

Gledania said:


> Same for killer.
> Killer > luffy right ?


Killer stood behind Kidd.


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## Gledania (Mar 14, 2020)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> Zoro fainted from Killer the same as Drake fainted from a bare shoulder



At least he didn't bow down before fainting to his opponent who had the kindness to lift him before leaving 

Damn @Claudio Swiss made a great job spreading this info 


T.D.A said:


> So Kidd > Shanks/Mihawk




Wait till he tell you shanks cut kidd arm with his CoC.


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## Ren. (Mar 14, 2020)

Dunno said:


> Zoro was caught off-guard.


Yeah always ... Zoro is off-guard when he takes damage.


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## Dunno (Mar 14, 2020)

MasterBeast said:


> Only Luffy fans could make up lies and believe it.


Np


Ren. said:


> Yeah always ... Zoro is off-guard when he takes damage.


It's almost like you are insinuating that it isn't true, but that would be ridiculous, so I won't assume you are.


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## Gledania (Mar 14, 2020)

MasterBeast said:


> Only zoro fans could make up lies and believe it.





MasterBeast said:


> Kidd has been portrayed to be Luffys equal.



You're a zoro fan ?


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## Shiba D. Inu (Mar 14, 2020)

> At least he didn't bow down before fainting to his opponent who had the kindness to lift him before leaving


 what are you talking about now ?


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## DeVision (Mar 14, 2020)

T.D.A said:


> Mofos when they realise their arguments about disarming/teleporting Zoro in theory applies to Kidd/Law vs top tiers like Shanks, Mihawk, Rayleigh etc:



I like Zoro, but do you think this could've happened to Shanks, Mihawk, Rayleigh:


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## Ren. (Mar 14, 2020)

TheWiggian said:


> Snack embarrassed him and he ran away like a dog with his tail between his legs.


Sorry, where did you read that I read cleary when Zoro was unconsciously after defeating Killer!

Yet he is King level.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Mar 14, 2020)

swords are susceptible to DFs


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## Gledania (Mar 14, 2020)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> what are you talking about now ?



Don't play the innocent


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## Shiba D. Inu (Mar 14, 2020)

Gledania said:


> Don't play the innocent


i have no idea what you meant, but keep deflecting


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## Beast (Mar 14, 2020)

Gledania said:


> You're a zoro fan ?


What... are you implying that I lied?


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## Ren. (Mar 14, 2020)

Dunno said:


> It's almost like you are insinuating that it isn't true, but that would be ridiculous, so I won't assume you are.


Neah mate always Sanji case ...

No, he that weak ...

Luffy, no he is that weak.

But Zoro he is Admiral level from FI!

Zoro is the only character that is stronger that Luffy for some, Admirals level form some before after TS, King level in Wano.

The rest need to prove it but when you use his L neah he was not ready.



MasterBeast said:


> What... are you implying that I lied?


You don't wank Zoro you are not a fan.


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## Beast (Mar 14, 2020)

This is probably the only thread, where teamwork actually works out so well for the weaker team.


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## Gledania (Mar 14, 2020)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> i have no idea what you meant, but keep deflecting



Sure ....
Mister faint specialist.
:Erza



MasterBeast said:


> What... are you implying that I lied?



Kidd was not ever said to be luffy's equal, only on your head.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Beast (Mar 14, 2020)

Gledania said:


> Sure ....
> Mister faint specialist.
> :Erza
> 
> ...


I didn’t say anyone said. 

I said he was portrayed to be luffys equal. 

Not someone said.


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## TheWiggian (Mar 14, 2020)

MasterBeast said:


> You said His bounty is closer to Sanjis then Laws but that’s a lie. Laws bounty is closer to sanjis then luffys so what?
> Sanjis biunty is higher then Zoros... let’s first go past that then come for law or Kidd.
> 
> 
> ...



I said Kid's bounty is closer to Sanji and Zoro and below Laws than to Luffy.



TheWiggian said:


> Yes, he did a marvelous job doing that, couldn't even defeat a SC, his partner was mentally broken, his bounty is closer to Sanji and Zoro and even below Law.
> 
> Those aguments are well constructed, Sanji might as well be Luffy's rival too

Reactions: Like 1


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## Dunno (Mar 14, 2020)

Ren. said:


> Neah mate always Sanji case ...
> 
> No, he that weak ...
> 
> ...


It's kind of hypocritical of you to call out logical fallacies, oftentimes faultly at that, when you yourself strawman all the time.


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## Gledania (Mar 14, 2020)

MasterBeast said:


> I didn’t say anyone said.
> 
> I said he was portrayed to be luffys equal.
> 
> Not someone said.



When ?
Oh when he was lifting block.

Sure. He will lift big mom while luffy lift kaido then you will argue they are in the same level


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## T.D.A (Mar 14, 2020)

TheWiggian said:


> Snack embarrassed him and he ran away like a dog with his tail between his legs.



No point arguing with @Ren. if it's to have a dig at Zoro he'll say anything


DeVision said:


> I like Zoro, but do you think this could've happened to Shanks, Mihawk, Rayleigh:


 
Pre-TS? Yes or something worse:

Reactions: Like 1


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## Ren. (Mar 14, 2020)

Zoro's sword can't be swapped or magnetized

Oda:


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## TheWiggian (Mar 14, 2020)

Ren. said:


> Sorry, where did you read that I read cleary when Zoro was unconsciously after defeating Killer!
> 
> Yet he is King level.



The only thing i can remember is that Kidd took "L's" wherever he went and got his inflated bounty by killing innocent civilians.


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## Gledania (Mar 14, 2020)

Ren. said:


> You don't wank Zoro you are not a fan.



You're the one wanking Kidd to high heavens.

You simply didn't realize that so far.


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## Ren. (Mar 14, 2020)

T.D.A said:


> Pre-TS? Yes or something worse:


Post TS:


Also, post TS:






Gledania said:


> You're the one wanking Kidd to high heavens.


@MasterBeast




T.D.A said:


> No point arguing with @Ren. if it's to have a dig at Zoro he'll say anything


Said the dude that all that share not his opinion are against Zoro  even in a thread regarding hotness.


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## DeVision (Mar 14, 2020)

T.D.A said:


> Pre-TS? Yes or something worse:



I'm just saying that Zoro (and the other SH as mains) are portrayed that way. Faulty.
I don't see a young Mihawk getting his swords rusted by a fodder.
And I'm sure as hell that Oda would explain "Mihawk is too strong for Law/Kid to take away his sword". Zoro on the other side, as a MC, has not that benifit.

Still not saying he definitely would lose the swords, but I could see it happening.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Amatérasu’s Son (Mar 14, 2020)

I find it weird to put up this battle when both teams share a single dude.

As far as interactions, the Monster Trio will certainly have superior teamwork both as a matter of experience, leadership, and compatibility. The Auction House Trio by contrast because they have superior abilities have a higher ceiling of power and greater probabilities of what they can do. You have on one side.

Monster Trio- Three master in close combatants, with Luffy having mid to long range melee capabilities, Zoro with long range attacks, and Sanji with superior mobility with flight and RS Sanji has a cloaking device for stealth.

Auction House Trio- A master in close combatant, with Luffy having mid to long range melee capabilities, a man who can utilize all metal on the battlefield as a weapon, tool, or barrier to start with, and a man who can alter the battlefield as he sees fit wit telekinetic and telportation powers and a shit ton of other unusual abilities.

I'd give it to the A3, extreme difficulty. They have more options overall. Law has too many ways to negate or escape Sanji and Zoro's attacks. While everyone here is focusing on Zoro vs Kid, I would focus on a dance partner switch up and have it go Kid vs Sanji and Zoro vs Law.

And let's be clear here. Law's Gamma Knife is a one hit finish on anyone without an ability to heal or reassemble their organs. Doflamingo survived because he was able to suture his organs with his abilities. Buggy would probably survive it easily. A logia or perhaps Katakuri if he was able to manipulate his internal physiology to evade the effect. But against Sanji and Zoro, it's a wrap if it connects.

Law can also freely levitate things inside of a room, which may not be easily countered with Haki. In that situation, Zoro has no mobility while Sanji can use Air Walk to actually continue to maneuver.



rext1 said:


> vs other Supernova's: Zoro straight up overwhelms Hawkins and Kid without the need to resort to trickery etc
> 
> 
> vs Doflamingo Execs: Unlike Vergo who tortured and played with Law. Zoro was the aggressor here with Pica repeatedly fleeing and hiding inbetween attacks. Zolo eventually owned him



I find it odd to think that against another Supernova that Zoro would be able to simply ignore the fact that he's a steel sword user against a magnet man. This is the classic Wolverine vs Magneto matchup.

Now the Haki question. We can conjecture that if Zoro had Busoshoku Haki when he faced Captain Shu, as that was the point of his conversation with Mihawk prior to Haki training; that Yubashiri wouldn't have been rusted, so we reasonably say Haki can protect from Devil Fruit effects, it's kind of the point of the thing. So in theory, Zoro should be able to resist having his swords manipulated by Kid's magnetism. Like a Force Push vs a Lightsaber, especially if Kid concentrates on Zoro's swords. We can't pretend that it's a vacuum and Kid doesn't have his own Haki to put into his powers.

Vergo torturing Law was plainly a ruse. Both he and Smoker sandbagged in that fight to give Smoker the opportunity to recover Law's heart. After that Law annihilated Vergo with no difficulty despite Vergo powering up his strongest form and Law having been on the receiving end of all that damage. If Vergo didn't have Law's heart we could've just skipped to the end.



Ren. said:


> And Assura was shit in Shabondy, not the god move that you all know:



Well, Zoro was carrying all the damage from Thriller Bark, but the fact is, he was simply weaker back then than a pacifista. A basic three sword strike post skip one hit killed an identical opponent. Zoro got stronger so of course his Ougi technique will have gotten stronger.



Ren. said:


> Law is one of the best support ever:
> 
> 
> G4 + Law shit with low diff on Zoro+ Sanji.



We can conjecture that Law can actually manipulate Sanji quite effectively with Room as he was able to swap his soul, Zoro may be immune he may not be, but even if Law can't teleport or affect Zoro, he can teleport himself. Law can be a very difficult opponent to hit.

I also wonder about something else. During the battle with Doflamingo, Law enraged Luffy to get him to attack Doflamingo, then swapped places with him. I doubt that Luffy changed his Buso Haki to allow Law to teleport him, or even was paying that much attention. So if he can swap Luffy around it's also possible he could do it with Zoro and Sanji. Now, the real question in the battle is, once he starts teleporting them around, how long will it take before they start taking that into account and they utilize his swapping them around to actually counterattack?



Cyrus the Cactus said:


> Read what I said, there's nothing showing that Wano Law is significantly stronger than Dressrosa Law. Has he been training? Did he get any new power ups? Isn't that another mystery fallacy?



I would wager, just on basic Shonen rules, that Law received at the very least a boost in Haki quality due to surviving several near death experiences during that arc and after he healed up, he powered up. Haki is based on will, and surely his willpower was tested to its limits and enriched by facing off against his nemesis on the battle field of life and death and coming out the otherside with his vow to Rosinante fulfilled.



T.D.A said:


> Wait maybe he can take Enma and his haki gets drained the f out of him.



I doubt Kid would actually be touching a sword he stole magnetically and as a result probably wouldn't have his haki drained. Though if he did say incorporate it into his arm then he may have his haki drained, though perhaps he'd just take it back. But we really don't know, since we've never actually seen Kid use even Buso: Koka.



Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Zoro still cuts him in half.



But then wouldn't Law just put himself back together?



Gledania said:


> Just like he did with Shanks ?



Hey, Shanks lost an arm too? What's an arm or a leg between pirates?



MasterBeast said:


> so he doesn’t have any techniques worth a damn outside his swords.



Well...I mean he can use his attacks without swords.


Shiba D. Inu said:


> Law can also teleport swords out of Zoros hands



Or off of his hip. Or redirect the sword strike like he did with Fujitora's meteor. Or just teleport himself if all else fails.



TheWiggian said:


> Just like he teleported Doflamingo's pistol out of his pants and Fujitora's sword?



We know that Law has that ability. Just because he doesn't do it all the time doesn't mean he can't. He didn't use the same slash he used to crush Vergo to attack Doflamingo or the Bird cage, that doesn't mean it doesn't exist anymore.



rext1 said:


> Zoro straight up looks invincible all throughout post timeskip.



That is 100% true, but keep in mind that this is a direct result of a problem afflicting all of the Non-Luffy Strawhats, only Luffy has gotten truly meaningful fights post timeskip. It's a terrible shame, but it is reality. Zoro hasn't been pushed, but he hasn't had a genuinely quality opponent yet except for Killer. And it seems that they were evenly matched enough, but Gyukimaru had to stick his snout into it.





Ren. said:


> Yeah always ... Zoro is off-guard when he takes damage.



Well, he was WIDE OPEN.

Reactions: Like 4


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## T.D.A (Mar 14, 2020)

Ren. said:


> Zoro's sword can't be swapped or magnetized
> 
> Oda:



My bad I thought we were talking about Zoro post TS who can use haki not Ennies Lobby Zoro

Reactions: Like 2


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## Beast (Mar 14, 2020)

Gledania said:


> When ?
> Oh when he was lifting block.
> 
> Sure. He will lift big mom while luffy lift kaido then you will argue they are in the same level


Okay, I’ll go through it with you. 

It all starts at SA pre TS. 

Kidd is the only SN along with luffy to hit and even surpass the 300M mark. 

Kidd is the only SN with another SN as his crew mate just like luffy. 

Kidd uses his own G3 attack to match Luffys. 

Then we get to NW, where you either fight fight the yonko or bend the knee. 


Kidd is the only SN to not bend the knee after facing off against 3 of the 4 yonko. 

Kidd before being betrayed by Apoo would have been the leader of his alliance just like luffy. 

Kidd is the only other SN with CoC just like luffy. 

Kidd AND luffy remind Kaidou of the Rox and how there are too many conquerors. 

Kidd and luffy are matching and one upping each other in prison with sea stone cuffs. 

Kidd is the only SN to escape captivity without any outside help. 

And mind you, Kidd hasn’t actually done anything other then be on panel and look at all this.

Reactions: Like 3


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## T.D.A (Mar 14, 2020)

DeVision said:


> I'm just saying that Zoro (and the other SH as mains) are portrayed that way. Faulty.
> I don't see a young Mihawk getting his swords rusted by a fodder.
> And I'm sure as hell that Oda would explain "Mihawk is too strong for Law/Kid to take away his sword". Zoro on the other side, as a MC, has not that benifit.
> 
> Still not saying he definitely would lose the swords, but I could see it happening.



Doesn't haki help eliminate DF powers? Oda wouldn't have Zoro fight without his swords just won't happen


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## Redline (Mar 14, 2020)

Correct me if I am wrong but the auction trip is Luffy law and kid  pre time skip right against the monster trio post time ship?
That's too easy but mid diff win at max for the M3!
If that was the question...


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## Shiba D. Inu (Mar 14, 2020)

T.D.A said:


> Doesn't haki help eliminate DF powers?


no


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## Beast (Mar 14, 2020)

T.D.A said:


> Doesn't haki help eliminate DF powers? Oda wouldn't have Zoro fight without his swords just won't happen


Lucky enough, Oda likes Zoro so he doesn’t put him up against people that would destroy him. 

Zoro is safe from Kidd and Law... for now.


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## T.D.A (Mar 14, 2020)

@DeVision

Reactions: Like 3


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## Redline (Mar 14, 2020)

If you are comparing the law kid Luffy present time then it's a win mid diff for them.
Sanji and Zoro can't compete with certain df power with ease, imo


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## T.D.A (Mar 14, 2020)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> no



Rusty DF power would have no effect...


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## TheWiggian (Mar 14, 2020)

@Amatérasu’s Son ofc he has the ability, problem is that those abilities are inconsistent.

He could’ve easily teleported Doflamingo into the sea and achieve his dream on his own with no problem.

DF users like WB, Big Mom or Kaido can all be defeated by him that way and Gamma Knife can kill every character that doesn't have the ability to stitch his organs together or another way of preventing death.
MES is a guaranteed heart crush ability.


Yet i don't see the trolls claiming he can beat their favourite character's with them despite them not having any feats of preventing him to win.

Reactions: Like 1


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## DeVision (Mar 14, 2020)

T.D.A said:


> Doesn't haki help eliminate DF powers? Oda wouldn't have Zoro fight without his swords just won't happen



Well.. Not like Zoro never fought without his swords before because they were stolen or something like that. XD



T.D.A said:


> @DeVision



I doubt Mihawk (or the monkeys outside his castle) used haki so they broke Zoro's sword.
If Shu had better haki than Zoro, he'd still broke his swords.

But I'll stop here. I stated my opinion, and I don't care that much (because I like all 5 of the chars here XD) to fight someone. XD

Reactions: Like 2


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## Redline (Mar 14, 2020)

T.D.A said:


> Monster trio they would actually work together as a team, chemistry >>>>. Kidd doesn't even get along with Luffy.


That's true buti font think they could win...a mid  to hight diff loss at max, for now, but if I am correct @ren said after wano M3 right? So they might have a change...


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## Gianfi (Mar 14, 2020)

A3 high or mid diff. Luffy is the strongest here but I don't think he can carry his weaker teammates. Sanji shitdiffed Page One, he should give at least high diff to Law. Zoro has been KOed by Killer... and Kyojiro was handling him no problem. He gets mid diffed by Kidd.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Mar 14, 2020)

T.D.A said:


> Rusty DF power would have no effect...


black swords are tougher/harder to break or nick

they are not literally immune to rust


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## Gledania (Mar 14, 2020)

MasterBeast said:


> Kidd is the only SN along with luffy to hit and even surpass the 300M mark.



Cause he was evil as fuck.


MasterBeast said:


> Kidd is the only SN with another SN as his crew mate just like luffy.



Ok ?


MasterBeast said:


> Kidd uses his own G3 attack to match Luffys.


...
Not sure of the comparison. Are you implying his attack is equal to luffy's ? 


MasterBeast said:


> Kidd is the only SN to not bend the knee after facing off against 3 of the 4 yonko.



He got guts I give him that. 

So was Urouge ...


MasterBeast said:


> Kidd before being betrayed by Apoo would have been the leader of his alliance just like luffy






MasterBeast said:


> Kidd is the only other SN with CoC just like luffy.



Most of the SN are featless...


MasterBeast said:


> Kidd AND luffy remind Kaidou of the Rox and how there are too many conquerors.



And ?
Big mom = WB then... right ?


MasterBeast said:


> Kidd and luffy are matching and one upping each other in prison with sea stone cuffs.


At beast it show his physical strenght is near BASE luffy .... which is meh givin we speak about a DF user.



MasterBeast said:


> Kidd is the only SN to escape captivity without any outside help.



And ??????



MasterBeast said:


> And mind you, Kidd hasn’t actually done anything other then be on panel and look at all this.



Reason why he is featless.

The only thing he did was :
-Fighting Kaido till exhaustion (same for killer)
- Defeated injuried a Sweet commander (Whuch might be snack, wasn't stated it was after snack defeat from U rouge) before living with treasures (and we don't know the circumstances). Snack lost his title after his defeat from Urouge. No one was punished from getting injured by Kidd.


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## Ren. (Mar 14, 2020)

Redline said:


> Correct me if I am wrong but the auction trip is Luffy law and kid  pre time skip right against the monster trio post time ship?
> That's too easy but mid diff win at max for the M3!
> If that was the question...


Read the title after Kaido ...


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## Perfection (Mar 14, 2020)

lol Sanji has no place here. he might bake the other team a cake by accident


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## Red Admiral (Mar 14, 2020)

The Supernova trio are stronger by ANY LOGIC

it's like

Roger , Whitebeard and Shiki compere to Roger , Dark King and Gaban ....

and their power as a team is so broken good

keep in mind ... both RS and Zoro swords are from metal ... and neither of them are strong enough to make that advantage go away ...

mid or high diff

Reactions: Like 2


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## Gledania (Mar 14, 2020)

Red Admiral said:


> Roger , Whitebeard and Shiki compere to Roger , Dark King and Gaban ....


Exept Law is not WB.

And kidd might or not end up as a valuable rival, durably or temporary.
But we need feats.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Ren. (Mar 14, 2020)

@MasterBeast  and @Shiba D. Inu  I am glad that this thread can not be overwhelmed by the vocal Z boys,

Law as support for Luffy and Kid is too much for even their wank for Zoro.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Beast (Mar 14, 2020)

Gledania said:


> Cause he was evil as fuck.
> 
> 
> Ok ?
> ...


Do you just post to post. 

Do you know what me and you are discussing? 

It’s about Kidds portrayal... you know what portrayal is right?


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## Ren. (Mar 14, 2020)

T.D.A said:


> My bad I thought we were talking about Zoro post TS who can use haki not Ennies Lobby Zoro


My bad, I thought that you have learned that COA does not negate DF powers.


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## Ren. (Mar 14, 2020)

MasterBeast said:


> It’s about Kidds portrayal... you know what portrayal is right?




This maybe 
or this:

Reactions: Like 1


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## Beast (Mar 14, 2020)

Ren. said:


> This maybe


That panel was set up to resemble this weeks panel. 

Kidd and luffy portrayal goes deeper then That.


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## Red Admiral (Mar 14, 2020)

Gledania said:


> Exept Law is not WB.
> 
> And kidd might or not end up as a valuable rival, durably or temporary.
> But we need feats.



hmmm...

Op-Op Fruit worth 5 Bil
Prime Beard worth 5 Bil

if Law don't die and he train good ... his DF is broken enough to be on a unreal level of power

Reactions: Like 3


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## Gledania (Mar 14, 2020)

MasterBeast said:


> It’s about Kidds portrayal... you know what portrayal is right?



And his portrayal is the portrayal of a wannabe rival who fail and fail again.

He will bow to luffy by end of wano.
Stay mad.


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## Draffut (Mar 14, 2020)

Kidd drops Sanji and Zoro.

Luffy stalemates himself.

Law takes a nap.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Mar 14, 2020)

Law is support until he GKs your ass or takes your heart or cuts you into pieces

Reactions: Like 1


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## Jaap (Mar 14, 2020)

Kidd suffers from the fact that we've never seen him fight. I'm sure he has some gear 4/ssj/bankai up his sleeve which will radically shift our perspective of him. The kind of attention and indirect hype he has received througout the manga warrants some kind of epic moment in the coming skirmishes. 

I'll give it to the Auction House Trio for now. It wouldn't surprise me if Zoro turns out to be on the same level or higher than Law and Kidd, but Sanji I don't know. Given how much power boost raid suits give his siblings, and given that Sanjican can hang with them without one, he should logically be even FM level with his suit, but Oda will not let it play out like that. There's too much people that need to shine and Sanji already has had his year...


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## 青月光 (Mar 14, 2020)




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## Ren. (Mar 14, 2020)

@T.D.A


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## 青月光 (Mar 14, 2020)




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## Amatérasu’s Son (Mar 14, 2020)

TheWiggian said:


> @Amatérasu’s Son ofc he has the ability, problem is that those abilities are inconsistent.
> 
> He could’ve easily teleported Doflamingo into the sea and achieve his dream on his own with no problem.
> 
> ...



Inconsistency is a problem of the narrative, not the abilities of the character. Here we have a theoretical battle scenario where the narrative isn't a factor. This isn't Oda trying to tell a story in this thread, or the author knowing the absolute abiities of a character, with said author having the character surmise what will or won't work against which opponent. 

In the narrative we could likely see that, Doflamingo knows Law's abilities as well as anyone, and he knows that Law has Haki. Him keeping his Busoshoku active so that Law can't steal his shit makes perfect sense. We can ask, how was he even able to shoot Law when Law can raise a room and Tact his bullets to the left to the right, or back at him? Logically, Doflamingo infused his gun and bullets with Haki so Law couldn't do anything.

But this isn't within the narrative, so it is perfectly inbounds to say, Law has this ability and can use it this way. There aren't Battledome restrictions in place like, whether or not the opponents have knowledge. If all players are from the present then everyone knows what Law can do and they can have their Haki at the ready so we don't get any of those shortcuts.


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## Oberyn Nymeros (Mar 14, 2020)

Sanji and Zoro will never match Luffy's closest rivals


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## Redline (Mar 14, 2020)

Perfection said:


> lol Sanji has no place here. he might bake the other team a cake by accident


What a fool ..actual Sanji is above Zoro till further notice , wake up..read well


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## Ren. (Mar 14, 2020)

Redline said:


> What a fool ..actual Sanji is above Zoro till further notice , wake up..read well


Red this after Wano.

You believe M3 mid diff the 3 SN?


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## Redline (Mar 14, 2020)

Ren. said:


> Red this after Wano.
> 
> You believe M3 mid diff the 3 SN?


No ..I believe M3 lose mid to high diff  max to SN but only becouse I am taking into consideration their Dr powers


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## TheWiggian (Mar 14, 2020)

Amatérasu’s Son said:


> Inconsistency is a problem of the narrative, not the abilities of the character. Here we have a theoretical battle scenario where the narrative isn't a factor. This isn't Oda trying to tell a story in this thread, or the author knowing the absolute abiities of a character, with said author having the character surmise what will or won't work against which opponent.
> 
> In the narrative we could likely see that, Doflamingo knows Law's abilities as well as anyone, and he knows that Law has Haki. Him keeping his Busoshoku active so that Law can't steal his shit makes perfect sense. We can ask, how was he even able to shoot Law when Law can raise a room and Tact his bullets to the left to the right, or back at him? Logically, Doflamingo infused his gun and bullets with Haki so Law couldn't do anything.
> 
> But this isn't within the narrative, so it is perfectly inbounds to say, Law has this ability and can use it this way. There aren't Battledome restrictions in place like, whether or not the opponents have knowledge. If all players are from the present then everyone knows what Law can do and they can have their Haki at the ready so we don't get any of those shortcuts.



Ok, I'll give my nod to Law whenever someone makes a Law vs Primebeard battledome thread.

Too bad biased mods will close it due to being a mismatch.


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## Ren. (Mar 14, 2020)

Redline said:


> No ..*I believe M3 lose mid to high diff * max to SN but only becouse I am taking into consideration their Dr powers


You voted that M3 mid diff the SN baka.


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## TheWiggian (Mar 14, 2020)

Ren. said:


> You voted that M3 mid diff the SN baka *and  that triggers me.*


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## Amol (Mar 14, 2020)

This thread is one big shitshow with fanboys using retarded ass arguments and throwing tantrums. 
By the way it was so nice to see Zoro fanboys suddenly giving Sanji props when they had never let go a single opportunity before to insult him. Now to them he is suddenly a player who can hang with Zoro. I hope they remain consistent in future. I am gonna bookmark this thread to call out someone if he again suddenly started to vomit that Zoro can low diff Sanji. I like consistent people. I hate biased fanboys that changes their tune in every thread to suit their agenda. Hopefully to all of them Sanji remains a peer of Zoro in future too. 
OT : Auction House Trio got this. Kid and Law have to be strongest guys after Luffy if Oda is using them to help Luffy in fight against Kaido. It is pragmatic choice. Kaido is the highest level of threat Strawhat so far has faced. It makes no logical sense that a weaker team(AH3) will face him when a stronger team(M3) is available. 
Now I do believe M3 would eventually surpass AH3 but that is EoS we are talking about not Wano. Law might even die before that to Kaido. 
I also do think that Kid is a bad match up for Swordsman given swords are indeed made of magnetic metal. Now obviously Haki should be able to stop Kid from stealing swords from any Swordsman which is why don't ask retarded question that if Kid can steal swords of Mihawk and such. They are Top tiers with much much better Haki and stamina. Obviously they will laugh at Kid. 
Swordsman those who are Kid's peers however most definitely struggle against Kid's power. I don't think Kid will just lolsteal Zoro's sword here(_that is moronic opinion to have as Zoro is too strong for that_) but Kid will make him waste so much haki just to keep swords in his hands which will in turn affect Zoro's other performance. 
Law is extremely valuable team player. He boosts team combos exponentially. Despite Luffy being in both teams, Luffy in AH3 will perform much better due to Law's support. 
So overall Luffy is the strongest. His only true rival is Blackbeard. Anyone why thinks otherwise is delusional. Surely Oda's comments that Luffy could have solo'd DD and he really didn't need Law's help was eye opener for everybody? 
Oda doesn't consider Law to be his rival when it comes to power and I have no reason to believe Kid is any better than Law. 
So Luffy > Kid/Law/Zoro >~ Sanji. 
AH3 wins with High diff.


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## Kinjin (Mar 14, 2020)

It's a close matchup. AH3 wins high high difficulty.

Reactions: Like 3


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## Redline (Mar 14, 2020)

Ren. said:


> You voted that M3 mid diff the SN baka.


Lol..I will fix that right away


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## Skyfall (Mar 14, 2020)

If you take all devil fruits out of the equation Zoro solos everyone. 

But as for answering the topic I give it to the M3 extreme dif. The best argument for the Auction Trio is that Law can just teleport the M3 into the middle of the ocean or drop them in a volcano.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Turrin (Mar 14, 2020)

Basically this is Kidd and Law vs Zoro and Sanji.

Kidd vs Zoro is really tough to call; as we don’t know the limits of ether character. Zoro is likely to beat King and damage Kaidou, but I could see Kidd being the main player against Big Mom alongside the other SN; as someone has to take on BM. I think they are both around the same level, but I’ll give the nod to Kidd as he is the only SN that Oda could still make a rival for Luffy; by having him beat BM, while Luffy beats Kaidou; even if that doesn’t happen I have to imagine Kidd is YFM level; and his ability would likely be problematic against Zoro who relies on metallic weapons.

Law was stronger then Sanji in DR, but Sanji is at least taking down Queen here, if not fighting someone even stronger like Katakuri. Based on that If Law hasn’t become stronger Sanji is easily going to win as Queen most likely >= Doffy > Law; but I have to imagine Law has gotten stronger since the events of DR; so it’s less clear cut; and his Hax gives him a push for me above Sanji; at least until it’s clarified how good invisibility is against CoO.

So I say SN 3 win with mid to extreme diff; depending on how strong Oda makes Kidd

Reactions: Like 1


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## Oberyn Nymeros (Mar 14, 2020)

How in the hell is Zoro beating a dude with magnetism powers?


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## Redline (Mar 14, 2020)

Oberyn Nymeros said:


> How in the hell is Zoro beating a dude with magnetism powers?


Only Zoro hardcore fanboyz have that answer lol

Reactions: Like 3


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## TheWiggian (Mar 14, 2020)

Redline said:


> Only Zoro hardcore fanboyz have that answer lol



Well a fun fact is neither Killer's or Zoro's or Law's weapons were affected by Kid's magnetism on SA unless the Magnetism supporters somehow believe and can prove Kid can freely choose which weapon to affect and which not. Magnetic attraction doesn't differentiate. So far Kid's feats only affect fodder character and nothin more.

Reactions: Like 2


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## T.D.A (Mar 14, 2020)

Oberyn Nymeros said:


> How in the hell is Zoro beating a dude with magnetism powers?



Haki doesn't exist

Reactions: Like 1


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## Ren. (Mar 14, 2020)

T.D.A said:


> Haki doesn't exist


Yes because someone stronger then him does not have a  strong or stronger COA, someone that also has COC.



TheWiggian said:


> Well a fun fact is neither Killer's or Zoro's or Law's weapons were affected by Kid's magnetism on SA unless the Magnetism supporters somehow believe and can prove Kid can freely choose which weapon to affect and which not. Magnetic attraction doesn't differentiate. So far Kid's feats only affect fodder character and nothin more.



O so based on the fact that Zoro has defeated only Pica and brainwashed Killer then that is his limit for those that support and believe that Zoro can defeat someone stronger need to prove that themselves. So far Zoro feats only affect and defeat Pica and such, nothing more.




T.D.A said:


> 0 evidence to suggest Kidd's CoA >
> 
> CoC still only shown to have an affect on fodder.
> 
> Carry on.


 Zero evidence to prove that Zoro's COA > anyone.

Luffy has COC and has better COA.

And last time when Zoro had to use COA to defend himself he was nailed and KO by Killer.

Also, COC has an effect on the physical plain, Luff's COC is just too weak for now.


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## T.D.A (Mar 14, 2020)

Ren. said:


> Yes because someone stronger then him does not have a  strong or stronger COA, someone that also has COC.



0 evidence to suggest Kidd's CoA >

CoC still only shown to have an affect on fodder.

Carry on.

Reactions: Like 1


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## TheWiggian (Mar 14, 2020)

Ren. said:


> Yes because someone stronger then him does not have a  strong or stronger COA, someone that also has COC.



CoC protects against Devilfruits powers?



Ren. said:


> O so based on the fact that Zoro has defeated only Pica and brainwashed Killer then that is his limit for those that support and believe that Zoro can defeat someone stronger need to prove that themselves. So far Zoro feats only affect and defeat Pica and such, nothing more.



Pica/Killer >>> fodder. I can agree on that.



Ren. said:


> Zero evidence to prove that Zoro's COA > anyone.



Enma Ryou >>> Kids missing CoA feats.



Ren. said:


> Luffy has COC and has better COA.
> 
> And last time when Zoro had to use COA to defend himself he was nailed and KO by Killer.



Luffy trains advanced CoA which is basically what Zoro has with Enma.
Also Zoro doesn't have an instance where he defends himself with CoA on panel, he clads his swords in armament and does it successfully because they haven't received a single chip since he learned haki, not even during his training with Mihawk or clashes with Fujitora.



Ren. said:


> Also, COC has an effect on the physical plain, Luff's COC is just too weak for now.



Not sure how that helps in a fight.


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## Draffut (Mar 14, 2020)

TheWiggian said:


> Well a fun fact is neither Killer's or Zoro's or Law's weapons were affected by Kid's magnetism on SA unless the Magnetism supporters somehow believe and can prove Kid can freely choose which weapon to affect and which not. Magnetic attraction doesn't differentiate. So far Kid's feats only affect fodder character and nothin more.



Of course he can choose exactly what he wants to use his devil fruit on.  That's like saying Law can't freely choose what to move in his room.

He would turn Zoro's sword into a ball of tin foil, then drop Sanji.


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## TheWiggian (Mar 14, 2020)

Cardboard Jewsuke said:


> Of course he can choose exactly what he wants to use his devil fruit on.  That's like saying Law can't freely choose what to move in his room or not.
> 
> He would turn Zoro's sword into a ball of tin foil, then drop Sanji.


 
Proof?

Reactions: Like 1


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## Draffut (Mar 14, 2020)

TheWiggian said:


> Proof?



Proof of what?  That he has magnetic powers?


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## TheWiggian (Mar 14, 2020)

Cardboard Jewsuke said:


> Proof of what?  That he has magnetic powers?



Well a fun fact is neither Killer's or Zoro's or Law's weapons were affected by Kid's magnetism on SA unless the *Magnetism supporters somehow believe and can prove Kid can freely choose which weapon to affect and which not. Magnetic attraction doesn't differentiate.* So far Kid's feats only affect fodder character and nothin more.

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## 青月光 (Mar 14, 2020)

This opportunity is too good to pass up


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## Amatérasu’s Son (Mar 14, 2020)

TheWiggian said:


> Well a fun fact is neither Killer's or Zoro's or Law's weapons were affected by Kid's magnetism on SA unless the Magnetism supporters somehow believe and can prove Kid can freely choose which weapon to affect and which not. Magnetic attraction doesn't differentiate. So far Kid's feats only affect fodder character and nothin more.





On this page we can plainly see Kid, neutralize and repel a cannonball with his powers without affecting Law who is standing next to him holding a sword. Kid like any good psychomagnetic can selectively where he applies his magnetic field.

So unless you believe Law already had the haki to resist or that his sword isn't metal your assertion is false.



TheWiggian said:


> Luffy trains advanced CoA which is basically what Zoro has with Enma.



We have not seen Zoro use any kind of force field as of yet with his Haki. He has superlative Buso: Koka however.


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## Ludi (Mar 14, 2020)

In a 3v3 the members of the A3 look much more usefull and strong combined. In a 1v1 post Wano Zoro vs Law and Sanji vs Kidd im a bit confused. I think lost Wano Zoro is ~YFM and Sanji YC3-2ish. I think current Law and Kidd are like YC3~. So it depends on how much more Law and Kidd show than currenly known if any of them can 1v1 Zoro. I would guess so.

Voting for A3 based on the 3v3 and the too many assumptions in the other version.


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## BigPoppaPump (Mar 14, 2020)

Oberyn Nymeros said:


> Sanji and Zoro will never match Luffy's closest rivals



Luffy's only rival is blackbeard.

How is Law Luffy's rival when he's basically a subordinate?

Reactions: Like 4


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## TheWiggian (Mar 14, 2020)

Amatérasu’s Son said:


> On this page we can plainly see Kid, neutralize and repel a cannonball with his powers without affecting Law who is standing next to him holding a sword. Kid like any good psychomagnetic can selectively where he applies his magnetic field.
> 
> So unless you believe Law already had the haki to resist or that his sword isn't metal your assertion is false.



You showed me a magnetic repel feat, not attraction.



Amatérasu’s Son said:


> We have not seen Zoro use any kind of force field as of yet with his Haki. He has superlative Buso: Koka however.



We haven’t seen Luffy with a force field either. We have seen the destructive force increased by advanced CoA though, Luffy destroying a tree and Zoro cutting more than intended which results in Enma drawing out Ryou, which is literally the same thing.

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## Canute87 (Mar 14, 2020)

When i think of zoro vs Kidd i think of magento vs wolverine.


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## Moldrew (Mar 14, 2020)

Auction Trio wins, realistically.


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## Draffut (Mar 14, 2020)

TheWiggian said:


> Well a fun fact is neither Killer's or Zoro's or Law's weapons were affected by Kid's magnetism on SA unless the *Magnetism supporters somehow believe and can prove Kid can freely choose which weapon to affect and which not. Magnetic attraction doesn't differentiate.*



Was there a point where he was trying to disarm any of them and couldn't?  Are you says his magnetism is so weak that it wouldn't even effect his subordinate Killer's weapon if he wanted it to?

He has used his powers multiple times and it never pulled the dagger off of his chest doing so, like in chapter 505.

Again, please tell me explicitly what you are looking for.  I have no idea what sort of evidence your addled brain expects.



> So far Kid's feats only affect fodder character and nothin more.



Wait, what does this have to do with the rest of what you said?  Just above you said it has to effect everything, now here you are saying it doesn't automatically effect everything?

Stop desperately grasping at straws.


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## Oberyn Nymeros (Mar 14, 2020)

TheWiggian said:


> Well a fun fact is neither Killer's or Zoro's or Law's weapons were affected by Kid's magnetism on SA unless the Magnetism supporters somehow believe and can prove Kid can freely choose which weapon to affect and which not.


Even without this page, didnt the fact that only Kid's allies showed no affect tip you off that Kid just wasnt targeting them amd was instead targeting his enemies?


T.D.A said:


> Haki doesn't exist


True. Paradoxically, haki does warp the properties of steel so that it isn't magnetic.....just like always.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Draffut (Mar 14, 2020)

TheWiggian said:


> You showed me a magnetic repel feat, not attraction.



What does that mattter?


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## Oberyn Nymeros (Mar 14, 2020)

Canute87 said:


> When i think of zoro vs Kidd i think of magento vs wolverine.


Yeahhhhh. I don't even think this match's outcome is debatable really (and the poll agrees with 25 : 7 in favor of Kid and Law), but I find the thought of Zoro being a tough fight for Kid to be.....strange. Only Franky is a worse match up among the SHs.


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## TheWiggian (Mar 14, 2020)

Cardboard Jewsuke said:


> Was there a point where he was trying to disarm any of them and couldn't?  Are you says his magnetism is so weak that it wouldn't even effect his subordinate Killer's weapon if he wanted it to?
> 
> He has used his powers multiple times and it never pulled the dagger off of his chest doing so, like in chapter 505.
> 
> Again, please tell me explicitly what you are looking for.  I have no idea what sort of evidence your addled brain expects.



The only disarmed people are fodders, do the math.




Cardboard Jewsuke said:


> Wait, what does this have to do with the rest of what you said?  Just above you said it has to effect everything, now here you are saying it doesn't automatically effect everything?
> 
> Stop desperately grasping at straws.



Well once a panel is provided where he effectively removes a blade from a character that is no fodder i will abandon the argument.
As far as iam concerned he doesn't have such feats and i won't just give him freebies in a world where 90% of the characters use bladed weapons especially if there is no evidence for it.




Oberyn Nymeros said:


> Even without this page, didnt the fact that only Kid's allies showed no affect tip you off that Kid just wasnt targeting them amd was instead targeting his enemies?
> 
> True. Paradoxically, haki does warp the properties of steel so that it isn't magnetic.....just like always.



Interesting it also didn't affect a pacifista despite being fully made of steel+ shouldn't he be the ultimate counter to those things? Yet either targeting them or not didn't help him much.

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## Oberyn Nymeros (Mar 14, 2020)

TheWiggian said:


> it also didn't affect a pacifista





TheWiggian said:


> Proof?


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## TheWiggian (Mar 14, 2020)

Not sure what your response is supposed to mean.

- Kid targeting the Pacifista resulted in Kuma being completely unharmed proving my point when he showed up later.
- Kid not targeting the Pacifista despite him being an enemy therefore providing me evidence that his magnetic powers only affect fodders.

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## Draffut (Mar 14, 2020)

TheWiggian said:


> Interesting it also didn't affect a pacifista despite being fully made of steel+ shouldn't he be the ultimate counter to those things? Yet either targeting them or not didn't help him much.



Since his abilities doesn't effect everything automatically, it didn't get grabbed.  And he didn't target it because he didn't know it was a robot.  No one has said he has the ability to detect metal.



TheWiggian said:


> - Kid not targeting the Pacifista despite him being an enemy therefore providing me evidence that his magnetic powers only affect fodders.



Did Kidd know it was made of metal to try and target it?



> The only disarmed people are fodders, do the math.



I did, he never tried to use it on a non-fodder.  What would be the difference that would stop one but not the other?  What other DF just has no effect on non-fodders?  Why didn't it grab the dagger off his chest?

And again, answer my question.  What evidence would you like.  Please be explicit and precise.



> As far as iam concerned he doesn't have such feats and i won't just give him freebies in a world where 90% of the characters use bladed weapons especially if there is no evidence for it.



What does that matter?  99% of the people breath air and Caesar can still control that.  99% of them can't fly, and we have an admiral who can control gravity.


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## Skyfall (Mar 14, 2020)

I agree that Kidds magnetic powers aren't strong enough to pull the swords away from Zoro. Fujitoras gravity wasn't enough to keep Zoro pinned to the ground so I don't see why we should assume his magnetic powers are strong enough to just rip his swords away. Just because it works against fodders doesn't mean it'll work on Zoro. That's giving Kidd way to much credit.

I just don't see him being able to just rip the swords away from Zoro, Mihawk, Shanks, Oden, Rayleigh, Whitebeard, etc.

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## Sir Curlyhat (Mar 14, 2020)

_Luffy and Kidd will be top tiers after this arc. Law is a bit more iffy, he might still be in Top Yonko commander range like Zoro and Sanji as a solo fighter, but stand clearly above them in terms of utility.

M3 will work better as a team but if Kid remains on the same level as Luffy, and while accounting for Law's broken DF, it would not be enough for them to take this._


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## Ruse (Mar 14, 2020)

I don’t think Kid could just yoink Zoro’s swords like that otherwise Law would be king with shambles and bfr but....

Why are Shanks, Mihawk other top tiers getting brought in the discussion? their haki and general power is way above Kid or Zoro’s current paygrade?


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## God Movement (Mar 14, 2020)

Wait, people seriously think Kid can just use his magnetism to pull Zoro's swords from his grasp? What kind of fanfiction is this?

If anything, Zoro's physical strength should be on par or above with Kid's magnetic pull. And going by actual feats, his physical strength is above. We've seen Kid pull weapons from fodder as well as stationary metal objects, but not weapons out of the grasps of people on the same fucking tier as him.


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## Etherborn (Mar 14, 2020)

Doubt he could just yank the swords out of Zoro's grasp. We've seen Zoro suffer grievous injuries without relinquishing his hold on them.

That's not to say Kid couldn't use his magnetism to disrupt his attacks. Exerting a force against the swords to slow down attacks, redirect them, etc. The key assumption is that as characters in the same tier, the force they can exert should be somewhat comparable, and so neither is going to completely overwhelm the other, even if Kid has an advantage due to matchup.

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## Shiba D. Inu (Mar 14, 2020)

good thing Laws teleport isnt dependant on force or grip


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## TheWiggian (Mar 14, 2020)

Cardboard Jewsuke said:


> Since his abilities doesn't effect everything automatically, it didn't get grabbed.  And he didn't target it because he didn't know it was a robot.  No one has said he has the ability to detect metal.



Iam sure he'd target the weapons around Kuma though:


*Spoiler*: __ 











Cardboard Jewsuke said:


> Did Kidd know it was made of metal to try and target it?



We don't know, they sure knew Kuma though.



Cardboard Jewsuke said:


> I did, he never tried to use it on a non-fodder.  What would be the difference that would stop one but not the other?  Why didn't it grab the dagger off his chest?



He never tried it on panel nice that we agree that he doesn't have the feats of doing it to someone who is not a fodder. Also i don't see the pistol and dagger on his waist anymore (In the panel i provided above), could it be that they are collected somewhere else in that mess? 



Cardboard Jewsuke said:


> And again, answer my question.  What evidence would you like.  Be explicit because your autistic mind is all over the fucking place.



Well it's pretty obvious you can't provide anything related to Kids fruit and someone else other than fodder to the point of throwing around tantrums like Big Meme and insults when you run short on evidence.



Cardboard Jewsuke said:


> What does that matter?  99% of the people breath air and Caesar can still control that.  99% of them can't fly, and we have an admiral who can control gravity.



It does matter because he doesn't have the feats for it unlike said CC. Poor choice of an argument might aswell give Kid the ability to shift continental plates because *"what does it matter"*. I have yet to see someone claim Fujitora can end the planet based on his devilfruit. If he'd have feats that fall into that category it would be a legitimate claim though.

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## Nox (Mar 14, 2020)

> *Bonney:* Confronted Teach
> *Apoo:* Confronted Kaido
> *Drake:* Confronted Scotch
> *Urouge:* Defeated Snack. Confronted Cracker
> ...





> *Zoro:* Defeated Pika and Killer. Confronted Admiral, Denjiro
> *Sanji:* Confronted VA, Warlord, Yonko, Oven, Daifuku, Katakuri, MUM.
> *Kid:* Defeated Haritsu. Confronted Sweet Commander and Kaido
> *Law:* Defeated Vergo, Smoker & Trebol. Confronted Mingo and Fuji. Defected
> ...



Chemistry is irrelevant in the face of crushing might. Jinbe, Ace, Crocodile have zero chemistry and they'd floss Mid Trio's ass cheeks apart.


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## RossellaFiamingo (Mar 14, 2020)

Dear God I think Z-boys need to be checked for a bad case of Korsakoff syndrome. Must be making up scenes or panels that never took place in OP. Luffy, Kidd and Law will Always be above Zoro and Sanji. It's painfully obvious.

 Come, I'll take your tier specialists and negs with open arms and a loving heart.


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## Gledania (Mar 14, 2020)

RossellaFiamingo said:


> Dear God I think Z-boys need to be checked for a bad case of Korsakoff syndrome. Must me making up scenes or scenariors that never took place in OP. Luffy, Kidd and Law will Always be above Zoro and Sanji. It's painfully obvious.
> 
> Come, I'll take your tier specialists and negs with open arms and a loving heart.



The same way WB and Roger will always be above big mom.


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## T.D.A (Mar 14, 2020)

RossellaFiamingo said:


> Dear God I think Z-boys need to be checked for a bad case of Korsakoff syndrome. Must be making up scenes or panels that never took place in OP. Luffy, Kidd and Law will Always be above Zoro and Sanji. It's painfully obvious.
> 
> Come, I'll take your tier specialists and negs with open arms and a loving heart.



Literally no scene of Law and Kidd being shown to be stronger than Zoro.


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## TheWiggian (Mar 14, 2020)

Interesting thing is that neither Law or Kid have an answer for Sanji's stealth and speed currently on top of them not even being confirmed above Zoro 

What are they going to do against an invisible enemy that can one shot characters on page ones level casually?


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## Ruse (Mar 14, 2020)

TheWiggian said:


> Interesting thing is that neither Law or Kid have an answer for Sanji's stealth and speed currently on top of them not even being confirmed above Zoro
> 
> What are they going to do against an invisible enemy that can one shot characters on page ones level casually?



All it took was one Supernova panel to get Zoro fans respecting Sanji?


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## Oberyn Nymeros (Mar 14, 2020)

TheWiggian said:


> Not sure what your response is supposed to mean.


I wanted you to provide proof....which you did, so I guess you did understand the meaning of my post after all.


> - Kid targeting the Pacifista resulted in Kuma being completely unharmed proving my point when he showed up later.
> - Kid not targeting the Pacifista despite him being an enemy therefore providing me evidence that his magnetic powers only affect fodders.


-In what chapter did that happen?
-In what chapter did that happen?

All I remember is Kid looking worried and standing in front of the Pacifista. Do you think that Kid's powers should allow him to smash and crumple Pacifista metal with a thought or something?


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## RossellaFiamingo (Mar 14, 2020)

Wow, this thread oddly reminds me of this thread... I wonder whats changed here....


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## T.D.A (Mar 14, 2020)

Ruse said:


> All it took was one Supernova panel to get Zoro fans respecting Sanji?



Only Zoro fans are allowed to make fun of Sanji and vice versa.


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## RossellaFiamingo (Mar 14, 2020)

T.D.A said:


> Literally no scene of Law and Kidd being shown to be stronger than Zoro.


Post Ts Zoro has weak feats and his portrayal pails to Kidd and Law. Kidd and Law are Luffy's closest rivals thus, Luffy's underlings will always be below them.

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## Moldrew (Mar 14, 2020)

Kidd should still be able to repel Zoro’s swords to prevent his attacks from connecting and throw him off balance while he simultaneously flings daggers and other metal at him.
That might also apply to Sanji’s Raid Suit.

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## Ruse (Mar 14, 2020)

T.D.A said:


> Only Zoro fans are allowed to make fun of Sanji and vice versa.



Don’t do that every fanbase was taking shots for that cake baking shit in WCI you didn’t say anything then


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## T.D.A (Mar 14, 2020)

RossellaFiamingo said:


> Post Ts Zoro has weak feats and his portrayal pails to Kidd and Law. Kidd and Law are Luffy's closest rivals thus, Luffy's underlings will always be below them.



Law has basically been part of Luffy's crew for the past few arcs since PH, doesn't have a crew of his own that can match Luffy's but apparently one of LuFfy'S cLoSeSt RiVaLs.



Kid's been taking Ls ever since he entered the NW, so please share these amazing feats/portrayals that are much better than Zoro's pre-TS.

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## Flame (Mar 14, 2020)

Zoro > Kidd >= Law > Sanji

Toss up. Depends on how strong RS Sanji is really.

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## T.D.A (Mar 14, 2020)

Ruse said:


> Don’t do that every fanbase was taking shots for that cake baking shit in WCI you didn’t say anything then



WCI was just shit period so we allowed it.


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## Oberyn Nymeros (Mar 14, 2020)

Etherborn said:


> Doubt he could just yank the swords out of Zoro's grasp. We've seen Zoro suffer grievous injuries without relinquishing his hold on them.
> 
> That's not to say Kid couldn't use his magnetism to disrupt his attacks. Exerting a force against the swords to slow down attacks, redirect them, etc. The key assumption is that as characters in the same tier, the force they can exert should be somewhat comparable, and so neither is going to completely overwhelm the other, even if Kid has an advantage due to matchup.


I dont think Kid can just crumple Zoro's swords by blinking or snatch them out of his hands.....but I also dont think Zoro is so overwhelmingly physically gifted to think he can release all his standard abilities or dodge or move at a level even close to his norm if he's being pressured like that.

How about this: Kid lifts Zoro's swords two feet in the air. Zoro doesn't have super anchoring powers and isnt glued to the ground so how is not left floating in mid air holding on to his floating swords?


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## TheWiggian (Mar 14, 2020)

Oberyn Nymeros said:


> I wanted you to provide proof....which you did, so I guess you did understand the meaning of my post after all.
> 
> -In what chapter did that happen?
> -In what chapter did that happen?
> ...



Chapter 506 and Kuma was shown unharmed in 512 when he interfered in Kizarus and Rays fight. Well based on the magnetism bros arguments that Kid can overcome post TS Zoro's physical strenght (grip) i expect Kid to at least immobilize a pacifista or this:



Oberyn Nymeros said:


> How about this: Kid lifts the Pacifista two feet in the air. Pacifista doesn't have super anchoring powers and isnt glued to the ground so how is not left floating in mid air because he is made out of steel?



Your fantasy is quite rich, why don't you write the story and Oda just draws?

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## Beast (Mar 14, 2020)




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## Ruse (Mar 14, 2020)

I forgot how chilled and laid back pre skip Law was, what you saying @Shiba D. Inu?


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## Oberyn Nymeros (Mar 14, 2020)

TheWiggian said:


> Chapter 506 and Kuma was shown unharmed in 512 when he interfered in Kizarus and Rays fight. Well based on the magnetism bros arguments that Kid can overcome post TS Zoro's physical strenght (grip) i expect Kid to at least immobilize a pacifista or this:


How would Kid break a Pacifista with magnetism when we know that Pacifista can take combo hits from the Monster Trio without breaking (and why are you bringing up Kuma)? No one is indicating that pre skip Kid's magnetic abilities or overall combat abilities were that powerful nor is an offpanel pre skip fight where we dont see him take action proof of anything.


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## Redline (Mar 14, 2020)

T.D.A said:


> Law has basically been part of Luffy's crew for the past few arcs since PH, doesn't have a crew of his own that can match Luffy's but apparently one of LuFfy'S cLoSeSt RiVaLs.
> 
> 
> 
> Kid's been taking Ls ever since he entered the NW, so please share these amazing feats/portrayals that are much better than Zoro's pre-TS.


Luffy took his l too after the time skip but hr still alive and well with his oewn free will and is kid so far...


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## Kamina. (Mar 14, 2020)

Depends on the jump Kidd and Law take.

Zoro vs King is obviously happening. Only people who disagree are people who have no reading comprehension or people hating. That's at minimum YC1 tier although that's quite a broad range.

People certainly participating in the Kaido fight:
Luffy, Law, Kidd & Zoro.

Don't know (retards here need to stop pretending they do) how Oda will boost these three after those fights relative to each other but I still think they'll be similar strength levels. Fights are toss up atm.

Sanjis best potential fight is a YC2 this arc which means it's pretty likely he'll remain under Law and Kidd. He's the weak link here so A3 take it.

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## Draffut (Mar 14, 2020)

TheWiggian said:


> Iam sure he'd target the weapons around Kuma though:



Would he?  Was he short on metal and really needed that one?  A lot of stuff is still flying to him there, probably just hasn't gotten to that one yet if he even wants it.  All that proves is that your idea that it automatically targets all metal around him is incorrect.



> He never tried it on panel nice that we agree that he doesn't have the feats of doing it to someone who is not a fodder. Also i don't see the pistol and dagger on his waist anymore (In the panel i provided above), could it be that they are collected somewhere else in that mess?



Firstly, the dagger is in the black spot on his chest on the right side.  It's where he always keeps it, and it is right there.

Secondly I still don't understand your argument that he wouldn't be able to use the exact same move against anyone who isn't a fodder.  What precedent are you following where a DF suddenly stops working if the opponent is a named character?  Do you have an example, or is this just a weird criteria you are claiming here?  It's like saying Law can't use his DF on anyone who speaks with a lisp.



> Well it's pretty obvious you can't provide anything related to Kids fruit and someone else other than fodder to the point of throwing around tantrums like Big Meme and insults when you run short on evidence.



I edited that out of my post like an hour before you responded.  It really take you that long to think up this argument? 



> It does matter because he doesn't have the feats for it unlike said CC. Poor choice of an argument might aswell give Kid the ability to shift continental plates because *"what does it matter"*. I have yet to see someone claim Fujitora can end the planet based on his devilfruit. If he'd have feats that fall into that category it would be a legitimate claim though.



Have feats for what?  pulling weapons out of people's hands?  You still haven't explained why being a fodder or not would change how his DF fundamentally works.  I think we are down to that thankfully, since you've given up of that stupid notion that he has to pull everything automatically and he can't control what he grabs.

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## Dunno (Mar 14, 2020)

T.D.A said:


> Law has basically been part of Luffy's crew for the past few arcs since PH, doesn't have a crew of his own that can match Luffy's but apparently one of LuFfy'S cLoSeSt RiVaLs.
> 
> 
> 
> Kid's been taking Ls ever since he entered the NW, so please share these amazing feats/portrayals that are much better than Zoro's pre-TS.


I seem to remember a thread about how Kid lifted his rock in Udon with one arm while Luffy used two and how this confirms that Kid is stronger than Luffy. I'm guessing that's the portrayal they're talking about.



Oberyn Nymeros said:


> How would Kid break a Pacifista with magnetism when we know that Pacifista can take combo hits from the Monster Trio without breaking (and why are you bringing up Kuma)? No one is indicating that pre skip Kid's magnetic abilities or overall combat abilities were that powerful nor is an offpanel pre skip fight where we dont see him take action proof of anything.


How about this: Kid lifts the Pacifista two feet in the air. The Pacifista doesn't have super anchoring powers and isnt glued to the ground so how is it not left floating in mid air?


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## Mrdude (Mar 15, 2020)

Some here seem to think Wano Zoro is equal to Dressrosa Zoro. Need I remind you he is currently training to get stronger with a better weapon. So anything he does in this arc is not a reflection how strong he was in the previous arcs. 

Also for those stating that Kidd is Luffy's equal. What makes you think this? 

Why because he picked up a boulder with one hand? That's the silliest thing I have ever heard. He's one armed man. How else is he supposed to lift a boulder?
He fought Snack and only managed to injure him before fleeing. How exactly does that make him Luffy's equal?

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## Sherlōck (Mar 15, 2020)

Mrdude said:


> Some here seem to think Wano Zoro is equal to Dresarosa Zoro. Need I remind you he is currently training to get stronger. So anything in this arc is not a reflection how strong he was in the previous arc.



So how strong was DR Zoro & current Zoro in your opinion?

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## Mrdude (Mar 15, 2020)

Sherlōck said:


> So how strong was DR Zoro & current Zoro in your opinion?


Current Zoro will likely be YC1 level. On Dressrosa he was likely somewhere below Commander level. 

We can't really judge well because Zoro didn't fight anyone strong. Pika was joke that M3 really didn't take seriously. I'd argue that even Doffy was below commander level because G4 completely overwhelmed him where as Luffy had a hard time against cracker.


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## Oberyn Nymeros (Mar 15, 2020)

Dunno said:


> How about this: Kid lifts the Pacifista two feet in the air. The Pacifista doesn't have super anchoring powers and isnt glued to the ground so how is it not left floating in mid air?


Are you proposing strategies for how the Kid vs Pacifista played out off panel? Cool but useless for the purpose of this discussion.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Ren. (Mar 15, 2020)

TheWiggian said:


> We haven’t seen Luffy with a force field either


Wrong as always:


Also hard for you but that is what BM used:


You can't do level 3 without 2

Zoro has done none on panel but hey disprove me with panels but your posts are all about Kid not having feats where Zoro defeated Pica and was KOed by Killer.



TheWiggian said:


> Well based on the magnetism bros arguments that Kid can overcome post TS Zoro's physical strenght (grip) i expect Kid to at least immobilize a pacifista or this:


Mate Zoro's s best move did shit and I mean not even a scratch to the skin of the Pacifista but you want Kid to immobilize it if not Zoro strength is above that.




As I said your double standards are amusing.



TheWiggian said:


> CoC protects against Devilfruits powers?


COC indicates of a higher will aka haki + portrait you get better COA.


TheWiggian said:


> Pica/Killer >>> fodder. I can agree on that.


No, your logic is that Pica is  Zoro's limit similar to how Kid's lack of feats it is his limit.


TheWiggian said:


> Luffy trains advanced CoA which is basically what Zoro has with Enma.


Wrong, Zoro never shown level 2 let alone level 3 that not even Wano vet have so yes as for kid lack of feats means that Zoro is stop at Koaka and that is his limit.



TheWiggian said:


> Also Zoro doesn't have an instance where he defends himself with CoA on panel,


As with your logic meaning he can't!


TheWiggian said:


> , he clads his swords in armament and does it successfully because they haven't received a single chip since he learned haki,


Yes but that does not mean that black blade + generic COA is hard because he faced what rocks and Pica's COA.
So yeah that is his limit.

Also, his Haki would be that great because of Enma, take it away and he can't do that with a generic sword, nothing remotely the same as Luffy's feats.


TheWiggian said:


> Not sure how that helps in a fight.


It will help when it will be explained similar to how COO was only COO and not FS and COA was only touching logia and now you can created force shiels and can attacks internals bypassing resistance.

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## Ren. (Mar 15, 2020)

Finally, the vocal minority of the Z boys does not dictate a thread.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Sherlōck (Mar 15, 2020)

Mrdude said:


> Current Zoro will likely be YC1 level. On Dressrosa he was likely somewhere below Commander level.



So training with a sword for few days can jump you from veteran level to YC1 level? 

Where Luffy had to fight Mingo, Cracker & Katakuri to reach that level ?

Reactions: Like 3


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## Ren. (Mar 15, 2020)

Sherlōck said:


> So training with a sword for few days can jump you from veteran level to YC1 level?
> 
> Where Luffy had to fight Mingo, Cracker & Katakuri to reach that level ?


And added FS and barrier + imploding COA.
That is the Zoro wanking magic.

And Kid lacks feats ...


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## Heart Over Blade (Mar 15, 2020)

Ren. said:


> How will this play out?
> I WANT DETAILS ...
> 
> @Shiba D. Inu, @Mysticreader , @Nana, @Soca



Before the time skip, Auction House Trio would've  stomped M3 based on their performance vs the Pacifistas. If they keep that power scaling then AH3 will once again stomp. When the 3 of them are put together, the manga gives them portrayal as some super power force that's about to steamroll the enemy.

3 of the top 4 Supernova obviously beats 3 of the top Strawhats.

Without plot restrictions, this would be an absolute stomp even if Kidd and Law didn't power scale. Law uses his largest room further than the eye could see and teleports Zoro to the edge of that room, follows him there, repeats 1-2 times and Zoro is already too far and too lost to make his way back. AH3 then proceeds to beat Luffy + Sanji with low to mid diff, followed by neg diffing Zoro. This is just one way for AH3 to low diff. There are many other ways to use Shambles that puts M3 at a serious disadvantage.

Ie. Luffy in G4 Boundman with Advanced CoA and FS could easily rip the the sword from Zoro's mouth and probably the swords from Zoro's hands, and fling them far away essentially crippling Zoro. M3's Luffy can't do the same because and Law can just use Shambles to undo it, and Law doesn't necessarily need his sword to fight. There's nothing stopping Law from teleporting any of them to the furthest part of his room and temporarily removing them from battle.


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## Ren. (Mar 15, 2020)

Heart Over Blade said:


> Before the time skip, Auction House Trio would've  stomped M3 based on their performance vs the Pacifistas. If they keep that power scaling then AH3 will once again stomp. When the 3 of them put together, the manga portrays them to be this epic force that's about to steamroll the enemy.
> 
> 3 of the top 4 Supernova obviously beats 3 of the top Strawhats.


Damn  I tough your were @Acno  for a second


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## Heart Over Blade (Mar 15, 2020)

Score so far 

AH3- 33
M3- 9


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## BigPoppaPump (Mar 15, 2020)

T.D.A said:


> WCI was just shit period so we allowed it.



I've been agreeing with you in this thread but WCI was really good and the best post TS arc. Only problem was the baking cake bullshit and the focus on Vinsmokes.

This is what annoys me about Oda, he builds up these amazing characters then when their arc comes he gives focus to a whole other batch of characters no one gives a fuck about. Dressrosa we had Doflamingo and Law but we had so many panels of Riku's dumbass family and those idiot dwarves, WCI we finally got to see a Yonko crew but the focus was on gayass Sanji and his stupid family and now we're finally fighting Kaido with a whole cast of Supernova but we have to focus on these lameass samurai.



Heart Over Blade said:


> Before the time skip, Auction House Trio would've  stomped M3 based on their performance vs the Pacifistas. If they keep that power scaling then AH3 will once again stomp. When the 3 of them are put together, the manga gives them portrayal as some super power force that's about to steamroll the enemy.
> 
> 3 of the top 4 Supernova obviously beats 3 of the top Strawhats.
> 
> ...



Law is so overrated lmao, the guy hasn't shown strength on the level of Luffy and Zoro.

Even look at his crew, basically fodder the strongest one is weaker than Franky. At least Kidd had Killer.

Law is the weak link the A3 same, Zoro one shots once he figures out Law's power. It will be like Zoro vs Pica all over again.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Heart Over Blade (Mar 15, 2020)

BigPoppaPump said:


> Law is so overrated lmao, the guy hasn't shown strength on the level of Luffy and Zoro.
> 
> Even look at his crew, basically fodder the strongest one is weaker than Franky. At least Kidd had Killer.
> 
> Law is the weak link the A3 same, Zoro one shots once he figures out Law's power. It will be like Zoro vs Pica all over again.



Nah.


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## BigPoppaPump (Mar 15, 2020)

Heart Over Blade said:


> Nah.



I mean you have a Fairy Tail set so I can't really trust your opinions.


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## Heart Over Blade (Mar 15, 2020)

BigPoppaPump said:


> I mean you have a Fairy Tail set so I can't really trust your opinions.



You have one of Zoro. I don't even have to read yours, especially in a battle thread about Zoro.


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## Dunno (Mar 15, 2020)

Oberyn Nymeros said:


> Are you proposing strategies for how the Kid vs Pacifista played out off panel? Cool but useless for the purpose of this discussion.


I'm saying that if Kid couldn't do it against a Pacifista, there's no reason to believe he could do it against Zoro.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Shiba D. Inu (Mar 15, 2020)

BigPoppaPump said:


> Zoro
> 
> figures out Law's power


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## Lawliet (Mar 15, 2020)

M3 > Auction Trio

The M3 will have a much better teamwork. A much better understanding of each other's abilities, strengths and weaknesses, and would actually care about winning this overall. 

Luffy cancels out Luffy
Zoro beats either kid or Law.
Sanji beats either Kid or Law.

You don't believe me? You don't have to. Zoro and Sanji are not to be fucked with. They are Luffy's guys when shit hit the fan and will eventually surpass people that are more or less on their level.


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## TheWiggian (Mar 15, 2020)

Cardboard Jewsuke said:


> Would he?  Was he short on metal and really needed that one?  A lot of stuff is still flying to him there, probably just hasn't gotten to that one yet if he even wants it.  All that proves is that your idea that it automatically targets all metal around him is incorrect.



More like inconsistent we see him collecting metal parts from all over the place even though the panels before don't indicate any marines and weapons being around unless he took all the metal from his fodder crew.



Cardboard Jewsuke said:


> Firstly, the dagger is in the black spot on his chest on the right side.  It's where he always keeps it, and it is right there.



Well i don't see it. Why wouldn't you quote the panel i alrdy provided?
I'll repost it no worry:


*Spoiler*: __ 






￼




The hilt in that stance should be way over his mid section, reaching his chest but i noticed the singled out dagger floating around him.



Cardboard Jewsuke said:


> Secondly I still don't understand your argument that he wouldn't be able to use the exact same move against anyone who isn't a fodder.  What precedent are you following where a DF suddenly stops working if the opponent is a named character?  Do you have an example, or is this just a weird criteria you are claiming here?  It's like saying Law can't use his DF on anyone who speaks with a lisp.



Simple, i don't need to defend my argument here. The only people he disarmed are weaklings, it's on you guys to prove he can do it to people other than fodders. If you can't surrender.



Cardboard Jewsuke said:


> I edited that out of my post like an hour before you responded.  It really take you that long to think up this argument?



I was answering two other users, but nice try and a heck of an argument there. Wait you still have no evidence? 



Cardboard Jewsuke said:


> Have feats for what?  pulling weapons out of people's hands?  You still haven't explained why being a fodder or not would change how his DF fundamentally works.  I think we are down to that thankfully, since you've given up of that stupid notion that he has to pull everything automatically and he can't control what he grabs.



Still waiting for them panels where he grabs the weapons from someone on his level.



Ren. said:


> Wrong as always:
> 
> 
> Also hard for you but that is what BM used:
> ...



Wow never thought force field would be reduced to a pathetic little aura like this. I thought you meant a real force field like this:



But ok I'll play along. Here is Zoro and how his "force field" is getting absorbed by Enma in high amounts, so basically the amount is way higher than what Luffy and Meme did display there.


*Spoiler*: __ 











Ren. said:


> Mate Zoro's s best move did shit and I mean not even a scratch to the skin of the Pacifista but you want Kid to immobilize it if not Zoro strength is above that.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Double standarts huh? Says the guy who ignores the fact that Zoro was nerfed to the point that his Asura move was outperformed by a shi shi son son from an arc ago against a Pacifista.



Ren. said:


> COC indicates of a higher will aka haki + portrait you get better COA.



 CoC is fodder control for now.



Ren. said:


> No, your logic is that Pica is  Zoro's limit similar to how Kid's lack of feats it is his limit.



Yes Pica is >>> thousands of fodders as seen on Dressrosa.
I won't base Zoro's powerlevel on fanfiction but from what was shown until now Kid has nothing to assume he would beat him.



Ren. said:


> Wrong, Zoro never shown level 2 let alone level 3 that not even Wano vet have so yes as for kid lack of feats means that Zoro is stop at Koaka and that is his limit.



Answered that above alrdy, Zoro has CoA flame as seen against Kamazou and "force field" haki as you call it with Enma, which he btw did casually on the second occasion cutting the cliff further.



Ren. said:


> As with your logic meaning he can't!



Have i claimed otherwise? 

He doesn't have the feats of it except in movies so i don't include it in my evaluation of his haki. His swords are the extension of his limbs and those are covered by haki.



Ren. said:


> Yes but that does not mean that black blade + generic COA is hard because he faced what rocks and Pica's COA.
> So yeah that is his limit.



It's plenty more than what Kid has faced so far.



Ren. said:


> Also, his Haki would be that great because of Enma, take it away and he can't do that with a generic sword, nothing remotely the same as Luffy's feats.



He alrdy showed signs of improvement concerning Enma and advanced Haki so your baseless opinion doesn't interest me when it comes to it.



Ren. said:


> It will help when it will be explained similar to how COO was only COO and not FS and COA was only touching logia and now you can created force shiels and can attacks internals bypassing resistance.



Yea but what does it do currently?



Oberyn Nymeros said:


> How would Kid break a Pacifista with magnetism when we know that Pacifista can take combo hits from the Monster Trio without breaking (and why are you bringing up Kuma)? No one is indicating that pre skip Kid's magnetic abilities or overall combat abilities were that powerful nor is an offpanel pre skip fight where we dont see him take action proof of anything.



I never claimed Kid could break him. Was talking about immobilizing, alter the form of the metal maybe but guess his magnetic powers are even less powerful than i imagined.

Why would i assume he could snatch Zoro's swords then?

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## Ren. (Mar 15, 2020)

TheWiggian said:


> Double standarts huh? Says the guy who ignores the fact that Zoro was nerfed to the point that his Asura move was outperformed by a shi shi son son from an arc ago against a Pacifista


Neah mate that is always Zoro's case.

Let me remind you that the finishers of Luffy's  fight vs  Croco, Luci, Moria and Kata were when he was in the peak of damage so that does no fly when Zoro is the monster of Endurance.

Or is he monster of Endurance only when it benefits your points?

That is double standard.

Zoro faced Pica and Killer but you seam to give him benefits of doubt because he has Enma.

Well sorry the benefits are also for Kids that has portrait and COC and there was no  COC user with weak haki.

And Kid has faced BM, Shanks and Kaido or their commanders so Oda put him against those where Zoro face Fuji that said na fam you are below my stands so here is a hole for you.

The rest are meh fallacies.

If Kid does not have feats we will use portrait and Zoro never was portraited as close to Luffy, kid was.

And please don't put Zoro and Kid in the same ballpark they don't share the same number of panels.

If you believe that Kid has no feats to put him above Zoro then gues what nor does Mihawk or Green bull and please don't put them as top tiers because you are using portrait to put them there.

Anyone can use your logic against your arguments.


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## TheWiggian (Mar 15, 2020)

Ren. said:


> Neah mate that is always Zoro's case.
> 
> Let me remind you that the finishers of Luffy's  fight vs  Croco, Luci, Moria and Kata were when he was in the peak of damage so that does no fly when Zoro is the monster of Endurance.
> 
> ...



Nope there are official statements of him being still injured at SA when Sanji comments on it, they all expected Zoro to have no problems to continue if he would've performed healthy. It happens in many arcs like Arlong park where he still had the injury from Mihawk, Alabasta where he literally lost liters of blood. Not even Luffy is an exception to this despite both being endurance freaks. Their only shortcomings are when plot has to be moved, Luffy passing out in TB, Alabasta, Wano, FI or Zoro on Wano.

The only reason i give Zoro the benefit is because he has the haki feats unlike Kid which you probably even agree on because you literally dropped the force haki Luffy/Meme and Zoro/Enma comparison. Now you build your only argument on an assumption of CoC while i posted solid feats from Zoro on panel.

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## Irene (Mar 15, 2020)

Win for auction trio clearly

Let's not forget that Law and Kidd were there on the seas longer and fought more opponents than Zoro and Sanji so they are more experienced for ppl saying they will lack in a team works, not forgetting both have hax fruits and are stronger imo


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## Amatérasu’s Son (Mar 15, 2020)

TheWiggian said:


> Well a fun fact is neither Killer's or Zoro's or Law's weapons were affected by Kid's magnetism on SA unless the *Magnetism supporters somehow believe and can prove Kid can freely choose which weapon to affect and which not. Magnetic attraction doesn't differentiate.* So far Kid's feats only affect fodder character and nothin more.





TheWiggian said:


> You showed me a magnetic repel feat, not attraction.



Dude you're so full of crap trying to make that argument. Look at your first quote versus your second. Magnetism is the same. There is zero rational reason to say he can't fine manipulate his attract but he *can* fine manipulate his repel.



> We haven’t seen Luffy with a force field either. We have seen the destructive force increased by advanced CoA though, Luffy destroying a tree and Zoro cutting more than intended which results in Enma drawing out Ryou, which is literally the same thing.



No, he seems to have skipped the actual force field repel and gone straight to the Juken variation.



TheWiggian said:


> The only disarmed people are fodders, do the math.
> 
> Well once a panel is provided where he effectively removes a blade from a character that is no fodder i will abandon the argument.
> As far as iam concerned he doesn't have such feats and i won't just give him freebies in a world where 90% of the characters use bladed weapons especially if there is no evidence for it.



That has nothing to do with how his magnetism powers work though. Whether or not a fodder or strong person can have their gear removed doesn't weigh on whether or not he can select what he magnetizes.



> Interesting it also didn't affect a pacifista despite being fully made of steel+ shouldn't he be the ultimate counter to those things? Yet either targeting them or not didn't help him much.



Actually Pacifista are explicitly *not* made of steel, they're made of some alloy that is harder than steel. Nor do we have to assume that said metal is specifically susceptible to magnetic manipulation.



TheWiggian said:


> Not sure what your response is supposed to mean.
> 
> - Kid targeting the Pacifista resulted in Kuma being completely unharmed proving my point when he showed up later.



What? The Pacifista that Kid fought wasn't Kuma.



> - Kid not targeting the Pacifista despite him being an enemy therefore providing me evidence that his magnetic powers only affect fodders.



We didn't actually see Kid fight the Pacifista. And Kid and crew (and Law and crew who fought the same unit) still managed to escape said Pacifista. If you look at Chapter 581 you'll see that Kid also isn't injured aside from the initial surprise laser attack.



TheWiggian said:


> I have yet to see someone claim Fujitora can end the planet based on his devilfruit. If he'd have feats that fall into that category it would be a legitimate claim though.



Well...he is proven to be able to call down meteors...so I'd say it's possible.



Moldrew said:


> That might also apply to Sanji’s Raid Suit.



The Raid Suits aren't metal though, probably some kind of mimetic shape memory polymer.



TheWiggian said:


> Chapter 506 and Kuma was shown unharmed in 512 when he interfered in Kizarus and Rays fight. Well based on the magnetism bros arguments that Kid can overcome post TS Zoro's physical strenght (grip) i expect Kid to at least immobilize a pacifista or this:



Kid and Law didn't fight Kuma though.



Mrdude said:


> He fought Snack and only managed to injure him before fleeing. How exactly does that make him Luffy's equal?



If you listen to Kid though, he took what he wanted and left. That's a successful mission completion.



Mrdude said:


> Current Zoro will likely be YC1 level. On Dressrosa he was likely somewhere below Commander level.
> 
> We can't really judge well because Zoro didn't fight anyone strong. Pika was joke that M3 really didn't take seriously. I'd argue that even Doffy was below commander level because G4 completely overwhelmed him where as Luffy had a hard time against cracker.



I'd say that while he was below Gear Fourth in power, his stamina and endurance more than makes up the gap for him to be commander level. Probably YC4 if we're trying to classify him. If you look at fighting styles he'd probably do better against Cracker than Luffy did.



Ren. said:


> Wrong as always:
> 
> 
> Also hard for you but that is what BM used:
> ...


I'm not sure I agree with that. Wig is right that we never got the explosive repulsion of the standard Advanced Buso like with Sentomaru, the Boa sisters, or Rayleigh, and certainly not a sustained barrier like the admirals. Luffy intuited the Juken version rather than completing the Advanced 1 that Hyogoro was trying to teach him. Now he may have acquired both during his two weeks of training, but we've only seen the more advanced version.



> Zoro has done none on panel but hey disprove me with panels but your posts are all about Kid not having feats where Zoro defeated Pica and was KOed by Killer.
> 
> 
> Mate Zoro's s best move did shit and I mean not even a scratch to the skin of the Pacifista but you want Kid to immobilize it if not Zoro strength is above that.
> ...



He did cut through the skin, you can plainly see the mechanics underneath. He was able to cut Kuma's skin, that's not the problem, the problem is he can't cut their endoskeleton. Which is consistent with Pacifista being terminators. It's easy to wreck a terminator's skin, it's the armored battle chassis that's the problem.



> Also, his Haki would be that great because of Enma, take it away and he can't do that with a generic sword, nothing remotely the same as Luffy's feats.



I think the implication is that Zoro's Haki will improve greatly from mastering Enma, and he'll be able to use that enhanced control and power with any other sword.



> It will help when it will be explained similar to how COO was only COO and not FS and COA was only touching logia and now you can created force shiels and can attacks internals bypassing resistance.



Please remember that the first showing of Kenbunshoku was Enel's Mantra which he used to predict two hours into the future. One of the first showings of Busoshoku Haki outside of Garp punching Luffy was Sentomaru's force field.



TheWiggian said:


> Double standarts huh? Says the guy who ignores the fact that Zoro was nerfed to the point that his Asura move was outperformed by a shi shi son son from an arc ago against a Pacifista.



That is true.

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## Cyrus the Cactus (Mar 15, 2020)

TheWiggian said:


> Nope there are official statements of him being still injured at SA when Sanji comments on it, they all expected Zoro to have no problems to continue if he would've performed healthy. It happens in many arcs like Arlong park where he still had the injury from Mihawk, Alabasta where he literally lost liters of blood. Not even Luffy is an exception to this despite both being endurance freaks. Their only shortcomings are when plot has to be moved, Luffy passing out in TB, Alabasta, Wano, FI or Zoro on Wano.
> 
> The only reason i give Zoro the benefit is because he has the haki feats unlike Kid which you probably even agree on because you literally dropped the force haki Luffy/Meme and Zoro/Enma comparison. Now you build your only argument on an assumption of CoC while i posted solid feats from Zoro on panel.

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## T.D.A (Mar 15, 2020)

Amatérasu’s Son said:


> Dude you're so full of crap trying to make that argument. Look at your first quote versus your second. Magnetism is the same. There is zero rational reason to say he can't fine manipulate his attract but he *can* fine manipulate his repel.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



What is Kid's DF? We don't know how it works yet. Don't even know its name.


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## Amatérasu’s Son (Mar 15, 2020)

T.D.A said:


> What is Kid's DF? We don't know how it works yet. Don't even know its name.


 That's fair. 

Though we do know that he can manipulate metal with it so, magnetism isn't an unfair assumption, especially when the first thing he did was repel a metal object.


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## Beast (Mar 15, 2020)

T.D.A said:


> What is Kid's DF? We don't know how it works yet. Don't even know its name.


Just think of Kidd as magneto as a teen.


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## Ren. (Mar 15, 2020)

Amatérasu’s Son said:


> I'm not sure I agree with that. Wig is right that we never got the explosive repulsion of the standard Advanced Buso like with Sentomaru, the Boa sisters, or Rayleigh, and certainly not a sustained barrier like the admirals


Every time we saw the 3 version explained it had an aura around his fist.

Did he mastered, most likely no.

But the context was that Zoro has the same level that Luffy is training with when no one in the manga bar  Ray showed us that.

Zoro never showed us level, let alone 3.

And you need 2 for 3 as the old man said.


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## Ren. (Mar 15, 2020)

TheWiggian said:


> But ok I'll play along. Here is Zoro and how his "force field" is getting absorbed by Enma in high amounts, so basically the amount is way higher than what Luffy and Meme did display there.


Mate what are you about when do you have something that was not forced by Enma from Zoro where I can show you actual Scans where Luffy does that without a tool :





This is your counter argument :


That it's aura is bigger, yes because it stole all it's haki ...
That is not a good thing and again it is only because of a sword, that is not Zoro's skill but hey.



TheWiggian said:


> so basically the amount is way higher than what Luffy and Meme did display there.





Amatérasu’s Son said:


> I'm not sure I agree with that. Wig is right that we never got the explosive repulsion of the standard Advanced Buso like with Sentomaru, the Boa sisters, or Rayleigh, and certainly not a sustained barrier like the admirals. Luffy intuited the Juken version rather than completing the Advanced 1 that Hyogoro was trying to teach him. Now he may have acquired both during his two weeks of training, but we've only seen the more advanced version.


Then both of you are wrong because Zoro never shown 2 or 3.

You can cut without haki and haki does improve the cut.

Because as you can see he can't do 3 without 2.


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## Fujitora (Mar 15, 2020)

T.D.A said:


> While we're at it, might as well say Kidd/Law > S*hanks, Mihawk, Roger, Rayleigh* since tHeY cAn ReMoVe tHeIr SwOrDs


I wasnt aware zoro was yonko level ck


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## T.D.A (Mar 15, 2020)

OniKaido said:


> I wasnt aware zoro was yonko level ck



So being Yonko level nullifies this magnetism power?

Reactions: Like 1


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## Etherborn (Mar 15, 2020)

Voted for AH3 high diff. Kid ≥ Zoro = Law > Sanji is my guess right now.

I will say that the people voting for mid diff either way are fooling themselves. The gap between these characters isn't wide enough to warrant that.



T.D.A said:


> So being Yonko level nullifies this magnetism power?



The premise is that Yonko level characters have much higher base stats, so their physical strength would be way out of league and no sell Kid's magnetism. Whereas Zoro is in the same general tier as Kid, and so he probably can't just ignore Kid's Devil Fruit power entirely. It's going to have an effect, if not a major one.


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## T.D.A (Mar 15, 2020)

Etherborn said:


> Voted for AH3 high diff. Kid ≥ Zoro = Law > Sanji is my guess right now.
> 
> I will say that the people voting for mid diff either way are fooling themselves. The gap between these characters isn't wide enough to warrant that.
> 
> ...




Zoro's physical strength is pretty high and often underestimated. And when it comes to keeping a hold of his sword, he would definitely draw out enough strength to keep hold of them.

Furthermore if it's Wado Ichimonji, I'm banking on Zoro resisting, Oda:

*D: Hello Oda-sensei. I have something I want to ask you. With Zoro always biting his swords, don't his teeth hurt?. My favourite character is Zoro. P.N. from N. Shinya Kun*

O: Hello Zoro-loving Shinya-Kun! That's so nice of you to say. It's true that his teeth hurt but he still does his best and keeps biting his sword! The reason why is long ago he made the promise to be The World's Greatest to someone who died and the sword that he bites was a keepsake from her. That's why no matter how much his teeth hurt he will keep biting! Until the day he becomes the greatest in the world!! Thank you for your postcard! I eagerly await the next one!

Reactions: Like 2


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## Fujitora (Mar 15, 2020)

T.D.A said:


> So being Yonko level nullifies this magnetism power?


Having way better haki and stats does, dont use oh well he cant do that to top tiers to justify your argument mate.


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## T.D.A (Mar 15, 2020)

OniKaido said:


> Having way better *haki *and stats does, dont use oh well he cant do that to top tiers to justify your argument mate.



Key word is haki. Last time I checked Zoro has haki.


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## Ren. (Mar 15, 2020)

Etherborn said:


> The premise is that Yonko level characters have much higher base stats, so their physical strength would be way out of league and no sell Kid's magnetism. Whereas Zoro is in the same general tier as Kid, and so he probably can't just ignore Kid's Devil Fruit power entirely. It's going to have an effect, if not a major one.


Bingo!

Also mid because Law +  Current Luffy can one-shot even Luffy an after that it is a low diff 3 vs 2.


T.D.A said:


> Key word is haki. Last time I checked Zoro has haki.


Last time I check so does Kid and haki does not nullify the power of a DF that is the Yami, now go and use fallacies against other people!


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## T.D.A (Mar 15, 2020)

Ren. said:


> Last time I check so does Kid and haki does not nullify the power of a DF that is the Yami, now go and use fallacies against other people!



You guys @OniKaido are the ones who brought up haki as why top tiers can resist Kidd's DF. Pick your mind.

No evidence to suggest Kidd's haki > Zoro's

Reactions: Like 1


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## Ren. (Mar 15, 2020)

T.D.A said:


> You guys @OniKaido are the ones who brought up haki as why top tiers can resist Kidd's DF. Pick your mind.
> 
> No evidence to suggest Kidd's haki > Zoro's


No evidence to suggest that he can't so what is your point.

And you are underestimating a magnet or the magnetic force.

Super magnets levitated trains.

Super magnets also are the core block of a fission reactor.

Kid does not need to take his sword.

For range he can mess his aiming and also put a burden on his grip so he will exhaust his haki and stamina.

And for close rage like a super magnet, he can put a magnetic field that will repel all-metal + a COA armor meaning Assura and Sishison son will never connect or any big damage full contact moves from Zoro.

You are a foul if you think  Oda will not use basic traits of magnetism with Kid that is important as he said.

Or that Kid will not have an OP Fruit when the other supernova is Law and Luffy just made G4 out his DF.

Point is that Kid is put at the same level as Luffy and magnetism is a counter for sword so Zoro is screwed and haki does not negate  DF powers.


T.D.A said:


> No evidence to suggest Kidd's haki > Zoro's


Nor the opposite, Oda would not give COC to just any bob, in fact he did give only to Luffy from the SN.


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## T.D.A (Mar 15, 2020)

Ren. said:


> Nor the opposite, Oda would not give COC to just any bob, in fact he did give only to Luffy from the SN.



So is Chinjao's haki stronger than Garp's because he has CoC while Garp does not given the info we have so far?

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## Ren. (Mar 15, 2020)

T.D.A said:


> So is Chinjao's haki stronger than Garp's because he has CoC while Garp does not given the info we have so far?


So wait you want to prove that someone has stronger COA that the strongest dude in verse with only COA and raw strength.

Old Garp had stronger COA that Akainu when facing Marco.

Also, you do expect that the Grandfather of Luffy and Father of Dragon does not have COC aka mist COA himself the Fist.

LOL, one of the worst examples you could have given.

I can bet with you that Garp has COC any day of the millennium.

Also explain to me how Shanks, BM, Roger, WB, Shanks all have COC if this is not important for the story?

Also with that Premise, Sengoku did not have COC, bu well he has and wait was the partner of the Hero and Roger said bring me those, not another Admiral.


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## T.D.A (Mar 15, 2020)

Ren. said:


> So wait you want to prove that someone has stronger COA that the stronger dude in verse with only COA and raw strength.
> 
> Old Garp had stronger COA that Akainu when facing marco.
> 
> ...



Fact: Manga never stated Garp had CoC, neither for Dragon btw and the Vivre databooks also didn't mention it, while they did for Sengoku.

So who's basing things off speculation now? 

If you want to say Kidd's haki > Zoro's due to CoC, then be consistent and say the same for Chinjao and Garp.

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## Ren. (Mar 15, 2020)

T.D.A said:


> Fact: Manga never stated Garp had CoC, neither for Dragon btw and the Vivre databooks also didn't mention it, while they did for Sengoku.
> 
> So who's basing things off speculation now?


Fun fact nor was Sengoku but he has it.

Also, the fun fact is you wanted to prove me something without evidence, and now I am basing things off speculation?


T.D.A said:


> So is Chinjao's haki stronger than Garp's because he has CoC while Garp does not


You are the one that said he does not have it so you have to prove that he does not have it, not  having info does not mean he does not have it.

And stop blaming others for what you started, you started with a premise that is based on no fact aka having or not having Garp COC.

Amusing is it not?

I stated that Oda put a lot of upper top tiers and they kind of have COC:

WB, Roger, Shanks, BM, Kaido, Sengoku so yeah.

Also,  he gave COC to Luffy and that was not a small thing for the top tiers:
I mean Aokiji, WB and Sengoku are scrubs and they are stop in thoughts just with small things.

You just don't want to Admit that Kid having it is a big thing in contrast to his portrait with Luffy and attitude.

Also, I am 100% that for defeating WSS Zoro will awaken his COC and that will be one of the keys but hey I am a Zoro hater what do I know.


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## TheWiggian (Mar 15, 2020)

Ren. said:


> Mate what are you about when do you have something that was not forced by Enma from Zoro where I can show you actual Scans where Luffy does that without a tool :
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Idc if Luffy can do it without a tool or not, i debate that Zoro's haki is superior to Kid's and by the look of it you surrendered since you shifted the whole conversation to the comparison of Zoro's Haki - Luffy's and Meme's Haki. You wanna add something else or shall i consider myself winning the debate?



Ren. said:


> No evidence to suggest that he can't so what is your point.
> 
> And you are underestimating a magnet or the magnetic force.
> 
> ...



Might aswell give Kid the ability of manipulating iron in a characters blood 
Stop giving him feats he never showed a glimpse off fool.


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## Etherborn (Mar 15, 2020)

T.D.A said:


> Zoro's physical strength is pretty high and often underestimated. And when it comes to keeping a hold of his sword, he would definitely draw out enough strength to keep hold of them.



I know it's absurdly high, but in relation to what? I'm saying his strength is not so high that it's abnormal for someone within his tier, and that's the key point. If he had the strength of a Yonko level character, and I'm assuming we can agree he doesn't, then it would make sense that he could ignore the effects of a Devil Fruit being used by an opponent within his tier. But that's not the case.

_Every _high tier in this series has absurd strength, regardless of their fighting style. Zoro's is not so extraordinary in that regard that he can just ignore Devil Fruit powers that would logically be a bad matchup for him. Refer to my previous post:



Etherborn said:


> Doubt he could just yank the swords out of Zoro's grasp. We've seen Zoro suffer grievous injuries without relinquishing his hold on them.
> 
> That's not to say Kid couldn't use his magnetism to disrupt his attacks. Exerting a force against the swords to slow down attacks, redirect them, etc. The key assumption is that as characters in the same tier, the force they can exert should be somewhat comparable, and so neither is going to completely overwhelm the other, even if Kid has an advantage due to matchup.



In short, since the two characters are somewhat comparable in power, the reasonable answer is that Kid's fruit _would_ have an effect, but not to such a degree that it would mean the end of the fight or instantly turn the tides in his favor. Kid's not gonna be yanking Zoro's swords away; I don't see that being the case. The more likely scenario is that he'd be able to repel Zoro's attacks with his magnetism, and Zoro will have to try that much harder to get his attacks to land.



> Furthermore if it's Wado Ichimonji, I'm banking on Zoro resisting, Oda:
> 
> *D: Hello Oda-sensei. I have something I want to ask you. With Zoro always biting his swords, don't his teeth hurt?. My favourite character is Zoro. P.N. from N. Shinya Kun*
> 
> O: Hello Zoro-loving Shinya-Kun! That's so nice of you to say. It's true that his teeth hurt but he still does his best and keeps biting his sword! The reason why is long ago he made the promise to be The World's Greatest to someone who died and the sword that he bites was a keepsake from her. That's why no matter how much his teeth hurt he will keep biting! Until the day he becomes the greatest in the world!! Thank you for your postcard! I eagerly await the next one!



Even if we assume that Zoro's connection to Wado will give him the will to resist Kid's powers entirely, which is a stretch, that's still only one sword out of three. The other two would still be susceptible to being repelled when he's trying to attack. Bottom line, he'd be at a disadvantage. Not a ludicrous one, but a disadvantage nonetheless.

Also, to address the Haki argument, I guess it could come into play, but we don't quite know how that would work. The only proven case of Haki ever serving as a defense against hax Devil Fruit powers is in the case of the Ope Ope no Mi, and I'd say that's mostly because there has to be _some_ defense against it in this series, and Haki was really the only solution. With magnetism that's not the case; it's just a force, and like any other force, it can be resisted by an equal one or negated by a greater one. You can pull a magnet off of the fridge no problem, but an electromagnet that can exert the same force as the muscles in your body? That's going to be a lot harder.


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## T.D.A (Mar 15, 2020)

Ren. said:


> Fun fact nor was Sengoku but he has it.
> 
> Also, the fun fact is you wanted to prove me something without evidence, and now I am basing things off speculation?



I already said Sengoku has it because it's confirmed in the vivrebook. Are you feeling ok? Feel free to take your time before replying. You backed yourself in the corner with this CoC argument and now don't know how to get out of the fact you need to admit Chinjao's haki is stronger than Garp's since he has CoC.

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## Ren. (Mar 15, 2020)

TheWiggian said:


> i debate that Zoro's haki is superior to Kid's and by the look of it you surrendered since you shifted the whole conversation to the comparison of Zoro's Haki - Luffy's and Meme's Haki. You wanna add something else or shall i consider myself winning the debate?


Mate, you started saying that Zoro has great haki because he does what Luffy tried there and that is false and you have no panel to back that.

I don't care what you consider, if won the stop posting 

You are using the lack of evidence as Zoro having better haki so I guess he also has better one than a Green bull?


TheWiggian said:


> Might aswell give Kid the ability of manipulating iron in a characters blood
> Stop giving him feats he never showed a glimpse off fool.


Well for you hist DF is useless because now Zoro's grip is of Superman's now.
No wanking and biasness there, no sir.


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## Ren. (Mar 15, 2020)

T.D.A said:


> I already said Sengoku has it because it's confirmed in the vivrebook. Are you feeling ok? Feel free to take your time before replying. *You backed yourself in the corner with this CoC argument and now don't know how to get out of the fact you need to admit Chinjao's haki is stronger than Garp's since he has CoC.*


Mate do you always try to feed straw men to anyone you debate or I am special.

Do you see my posts and yours been remotely the same or not?

You seem to believe that I said anyone with COC has better haki that anyone that does not have COC and you want to prove me that with Garp that you don't even know if he has COC or not aka a very disingenuous thing to do!

Hell, I can prove that better Ace has COC and any top tier shits on him COC or not, now buzz of with your straw men and debate what I say or don't bother.


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## Ren. (Mar 15, 2020)

@TheWiggian  and @T.D.A  you guys don't give a shit about this thread, at least that is clear.


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## TheWiggian (Mar 15, 2020)

Ren. said:


> Mate you started saying that Zoro has great haki because he does what Luffy tryed there and that is false and you have not panel to back that.



Zoro used the same Ryou Luffy was doing, why deny it at this point when there is panel evidence? Enma draws out the users Ryuo/haki, with the difference that Luffy clads his fist in it and Zoro his channels it into his sword.



Ren. said:


> I don't care what you consider.







Ren. said:


> You are using the lack of evidence as Zor having better haki so I guess he also has better one than Green bull?



It's a battledome thread, so i don't understand why you cry because of Kid's missing feats. He loses the haki game against Zoro for now. Move on, why dragging more and more characters into it? Is the match-up about Ryokugyu? Why are you so desperate?



Ren. said:


> Well for you hist DF is useless because now Zoro's grip is of Superman's now.
> Now wanking and biasness there, no sir.



Show me feats how he disarms someone other than fodder and you will get my concession on that matter. Currently he doesn't have them.


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## Etherborn (Mar 15, 2020)

TheWiggian said:


> Interesting thing is that neither Law or Kid have an answer for Sanji's *stealth* and speed currently on top of them not even being confirmed above Zoro



I know I'm late, but I might as well address this. 

Speed is its own argument, but regarding Sanji's stealth in the Raid Suit, Law has an ability called *Scan* which he can use to locate anything inside his Room. 



In addition to Observation Haki, it's a pretty good counter to Stealth Black.


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## TheWiggian (Mar 15, 2020)

Etherborn said:


> I know I'm late, but I might as well address this.
> 
> Speed is its own argument, but regarding Sanji's stealth in the Raid Suit, Law has an ability called *Scan* which he can use to locate anything inside his Room.
> 
> ...



Won't help him if Sanji is outside his room, scan isn't guaranteeing him a hit on Sanji or somehow preventing an attack, especially if the later has soru movement without his suit and is even faster with it. Not to mention that Kid has no counter either. Oh to add on top that the super useful scan ability only works on fodders just like the magnetism in Kid's case.

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## Etherborn (Mar 15, 2020)

TheWiggian said:


> Won't help him if Sanji is outside his room



Law can make his Room pretty huge if you recall. 



And that was four arcs ago. It's been pretty established in Punk Hazard and Dressrosa that the entire battlefield will be under his influence if he wants it to be.



> scan isn't guaranteeing him a hit on Sanji or somehow preventing an attack



No, but Shambles would. Switch Sanji with some random object, or do the same to himself. Par the course with Law. Also, he's not exactly slow; he intercepted Doffy on multiple occasions. Scan + Shambles is very good for keeping Sanji from blitzing around, and Shambles + Gamma Knife is a serious threat, especially in a group fight. Even one of those landing will be a game changer. He could easily use Shambles to place Zoro in front of Sanji's attack or vice versa, then use the distraction to try and connect a Gamma Knife. Neither of them can use Future Sight, so they might not see it coming. He's a very versatile fighter, always has been.



> especially if the later has soru movement without his suit and *is even faster with it*.



I don't think the Raid Suit increases his speed. It makes him more durable and lets him go invisible last time I checked.



> Not to mention that Kid has no counter either.



Observation Haki. Gotta love it. Sensing people without using the 5 senses is its most basic use.

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## Fujitora (Mar 15, 2020)

T.D.A said:


> Key word is haki. Last time I checked Zoro has haki.


Yeah but is he haki top tier tho? I dont think so, and please dont say it is. Even you arent that dellusional.


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## TheWiggian (Mar 15, 2020)

Etherborn said:


> Law can make his Room pretty huge if you recall.
> 
> 
> 
> And that was four arcs ago. It's been pretty established in Punk Hazard and Dressrosa that the entire battlefield will be under his influence if he wants it to be.



Which will drain him even faster, he will be battered before the fight even reaches the middle, not to mention against stronger and more opponents than he faced before. He conserved as much stamina as possible on his adventure through PH, DR and GB. Also his gigantic room drains his life energy/force as explained by himself.




Etherborn said:


> No, but Shambles would. Switch Sanji with some random object, or do the same to himself. Par the course with Law. Also, he's not exactly slow; he intercepted Doffy on multiple occasions. Scan + Shambles is very good for keeping Sanji from blitzing around, and Shambles + Gamma Knife is a serious threat, especially in a group fight. Even one of those landing will be a game changer. He could easily use Shambles to place Zoro in front of Sanji's attack or vice versa, then use the distraction to try and connect a Gamma Knife. Neither of them can use Future Sight, so they might not see it coming. He's a very versatile fighter, always has been.



Pretty weird he haven't won a single fight against a competent opponent with that combo. A character with Vergo's speed easily can intercept those abilities not to mention that the strawhats alrdy have intel on them. Sanji with the RS for example has far more mobility and speed than Vergo, who he was compareable to at PH.



Etherborn said:


> I don't think the Raid Suit increases his speed. It makes him more durable and lets him go invisible last time I checked.



The RS boosts all stats as there is plenty of proof from all germa members and gives additional capabilities.



Etherborn said:


> Observation Haki. Gotta love it. Sensing people without using the 5 senses is its most basic use.



Kid has no CoO feats so that much is an assumption only, not even Law has them unlike the M3. We can't even tell how good it is and if he can even follow a fast paced character that is invisible. I don't rule out the possibility that they might block a few kicks but seeing as even Katakuri who was arguably faster than G4 and with FS had trouble with incoming invisible (due to speed and angles) attacks.

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## Etherborn (Mar 15, 2020)

TheWiggian said:


> Which will drain him even faster, he will be battered before the fight even reaches the middle, not to mention against stronger and more opponents than he faced before. He conserved as much stamina as possible on his adventure through PH, DR and GB. Also his gigantic room drains his life energy/force as explained by himself.



He had to conserve his stamina because he wanted to go into the fight with Doffy fresh. Even then, he still lost stamina in the process of running from Fujitora before he got his chance to 1v1 Doffy. That wasn't even Law at his best, and he still performed to the degree we saw. Going into a battle fresh with Kid as an ally, he won't have that problem. 



> Pretty weird he haven't won a single fight against a competent opponent with that combo. A character with Vergo's speed easily can intercept those abilities not to mention that the strawhats alrdy have intel on them. Sanji with the RS for example has far more mobility and speed than Vergo, who he was compareable to at PH.



Vergo couldn't intercept him once he got his heart back. He got taken down in one shot, even with his soru speed. Sanji is much faster than that now, yes, but that just means he'll put up a much better fight than Vergo did, which is obvious because Vergo is old news. Also, we don't know how much Law has improved since Dressrosa either. His improvement probably isn't comparable to Sanji's since Sanji was going through a lot of fights in WCI, but I doubt it's nonexistent. 



> The RS boosts all stats as there is plenty of proof from all germa members and gives additional capabilities.



Got any panels for that by any chance? I guess I should have paid more attention to the WCI arc. 



> Kid has no CoO feats so that much is an assumption only, not even Law has them unlike the M3. We can't even tell how good it is and if he can even follow a fast paced character that is invisible. I don't rule out the possibility that they might block a few kicks but seeing as even Katakuri who was arguably faster than G4 and with FS had trouble with incoming invisible (due to speed and angles) attacks.



I typically assume all Supernovas can use both types of Haki to some extent since even shmucks like the Boa sisters can. But even if Kid's Observation Haki can't keep up with Sanji speed/stealth combo, Law still has his scan to deal with it. And it's not as if Sanji is going to be 1v2ing them. Kid would likely be going after Zoro, and if Sanji tries to switch opponents, Law is most likely going to do something to stop him.


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## TheWiggian (Mar 15, 2020)

Etherborn said:


> He had to conserve his stamina because he wanted to go into the fight with Doffy fresh. Even then, he still lost stamina in the process of running from Fujitora before he got his chance to 1v1 Doffy. That wasn't even Law at his best, and he still performed to the degree we saw. Going into a battle fresh with Kid as an ally, he won't have that problem.



Wouldn't have mattered if he were fresh or not. Awakened Doffy would make quick work out of everyone not named Fujitora on Dressrosa. His big room still feasts on his life force, so the chances he operates on that level from the start is slim at best. The bigger the room, the faster he will go down, that's his DF drawback.



Etherborn said:


> Vergo couldn't intercept him once he got his heart back. He got taken down in one shot, even with his soru speed. Sanji is much faster than that now, yes, but that just means he'll put up a much better fight than Vergo did, which is obvious because Vergo is old news. Also, we don't know how much Law has improved since Dressrosa either. His improvement probably isn't comparable to Sanji's since Sanji was going through a lot of fights in WCI, but I doubt it's nonexistent.



Vergo never fought Law after the former got his heart back. He decided to tank anything Law threw at him so the answer remains Vergo intercepted Law's combo with no problem and we don't know how much Law would've improved with the same tactic after getting his heart back.

All assumptions at this point. I'd add my own here since there is no evidence anyway:

_- Law needed his heart back to overcome Vergo's haki with which he could unleash the only move in his repertoire at that time, that was capable of immobilizing/defeating Vergo._



Etherborn said:


> Got any panels for that by any chance? I guess I should have paid more attention to the WCI arc.




*Spoiler*: __ 















No one here paid much attention to the worst arc in history of One Piece so i don't blame you.



Etherborn said:


> I typically assume all Supernovas can use both types of Haki to some extent since even shmucks like the Boa sisters can. But even if Kid's Observation Haki can't keep up with Sanji speed/stealth combo, Law still has his scan to deal with it. And it's not as if Sanji is going to be 1v2ing them. Kid would likely be going after Zoro, and if Sanji tries to switch opponents, Law is most likely going to do something to stop him.



Not sure either can deal with Sanji's invisibility so easy as you assume, their CoO feats are basic at best with their current feats while Sanji have shown a glimpse of future sight in WCI and incredible observation range back in PH. The other will have his hands full with Zoro, who has tremendous attack power with Enma and superior, advanced armament, also his short burst speed is not any slower than Luffy's and Sanji's soru-like ability with reaction time that was always among the highest level of the M3.

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## Rp4lyf (Mar 15, 2020)

Dunno said:


> I seem to remember a thread about how Kid lifted his rock in Udon with one arm while Luffy used two and how this confirms that Kid is stronger than Luffy. I'm guessing that's the portrayal they're talking about.
> 
> 
> How about this: Kid lifts the Pacifista two feet in the air. The Pacifista doesn't have super anchoring powers and isnt glued to the ground so how is it not left floating in mid air?


Kid had less seastone than Luffy, so that does not say anything.


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## Zoro20 (Mar 15, 2020)

MasterBeast said:


> Law has to die for Zoro to become WSS.
> 
> Kidds in luffys league.


it depends on how oda will portray kidd 
but Luffy is on another level compared to kidd and the others  
luffy's growth is incomparable ,i doubt that kidd /law or any supernova will give luffy extreme diff 
but we will see


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## Dunno (Mar 15, 2020)

Rp4lyf said:


> Kid had less seastone than Luffy, so that does not say anything.


I'm not the one you need to convince. I find the argument ridiculous.

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## SomnusUltima (Mar 15, 2020)

Ren. said:


> This is not a Zoro thread, I already answered you, next time I will call the mods for off-topic.
> 
> And G4 was shafter because of FS and G4 demolished DD that shits on Zoro in DressRosa.
> 
> ...


i seriously try find pica size with this scan? are you retarded?
its classic "giant dude vs tiny", like Toriko vs 50km Heracle


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## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Mar 15, 2020)

So this is basically Law and Kidd vs. Zoro and Sanji? It's honestly hard to tell at this point. Zoro and Sanji just received power ups, Zoro's in particular is quite significant.


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## Mrdude (Mar 15, 2020)

TheWiggian said:


> Zoro used the same Ryou Luffy was doing, why deny it at this point when there is panel evidence? Enma draws out the users Ryuo/haki, with the difference that Luffy clads his fist in it and Zoro his channels it into his sword.



Zoro didn't channel anything from his sword it was forcibly drawn from him by Enma. Zoro hasn't actually shown the ability to use Ryou outside of Enma. 

Also Ryou is the the basic version of advanced haki as there are two levels to it. There is emission and there is internal destruction. What Luffy did was the highest level of Advanced Armament Haki.


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## Oberyn Nymeros (Mar 15, 2020)

Dunno said:


> I'm saying that if Kid couldn't do it against a Pacifista, there's no reason to believe he could do it against Zoro.


I understood your intent. The thing is.....we never saw Kid attempt to manipulate or attack a Pacifista at all, so its not relevant. 

To respond to your hypothetical scenario though, the Pacifista would just start shooting exploding lasers of course.

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## Rp4lyf (Mar 15, 2020)

Dunno said:


> I'm not the one you need to convince. I find the argument ridiculous.


Luffy has seastone cuffs on 2 Arms.


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## TheWiggian (Mar 15, 2020)

Mrdude said:


> Zoro didn't channel anything from his sword it was forcibly drawn from him by Enma. *Zoro hasn't actually shown the ability to use Ryou outside of Enma. *
> 
> Also Ryou is the the basic version of advanced haki as there are two levels to it. There is emission and there is internal destruction. What Luffy did was the highest level of Advanced Armament Haki.



Zoro has the nice privilege to train his haki passively by Enma drawing out and focussing all willpower into advanced haki, which it did for Oden in the past, well the only character that managed to scar Kaido. Zoro is alrdy on his way to master the blade with his immense willpower and resolve while his haters can go ahead and deny it further, not that Oda cares btw.

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## Kamina. (Mar 15, 2020)

Mrdude said:


> Zoro didn't channel anything from his sword it was forcibly drawn from him by Enma. *Zoro hasn't actually shown the ability to use Ryou* outside of Enma.
> 
> Also Ryou is the the basic version of advanced haki as there are two levels to it. There is emission and there is internal destruction. What Luffy did was the highest level of Advanced Armament Haki.



The description of S1 Advanced CoA is literally the same thing that Zoro discovered against Daz Bones only its without use of a weapon. What do you think the purpose of Oda throwing in that statement was?

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## Corax (Mar 16, 2020)

Etherborn said:


> I don't think the Raid Suit increases his speed. It makes him more durable and lets him go invisible last time I checked.


It is. It has rocket boosters in boots and joints. Sanji even comments on it in P1 chapter.


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## Ren. (Mar 16, 2020)

TheWiggian said:


> *Not sure either can deal with Sanji's invisibility so easy as you assume, their CoO feats are basic at best with their current feats while Sanji have shown a glimpse of future sight in WCI and incredible observation range back in PH. *The other will have his hands full with Zoro, who has tremendous attack power with Enma and superior, advanced armament, also his short burst speed is not any slower than Luffy's and Sanji's soru-like ability with reaction time that was always among the highest level of the M3.


Wait Sanji fans look at this.

Next time Zoro vs  Sanji is in place.

Zoro has bare-bones COO and he said that this can't deal with Sanji's invisibility also Sanji has glimpse of FS ).
Don't forget this, when he says that Zoro mid diffs Sanji @stealthblack  and others.

And I am a  double standard guy.

Also, Zoro has now short burst speed next to Snake man's and Bound man Soru also his reaction time is higher than Luffy ...
Tell me more...



SomnusUltima said:


> i seriously try find pica size with this scan? are you retarded?
> its classic "giant dude vs tiny", like Toriko vs 50km Heracle


So Pica is now bigger and wider than a mountain range?

And I am retarded?

We are comparing Pica with this:


Not even close.

This is an island rage cut.


TheWiggian said:


> Zoro has the nice privilege to train his haki passively by Enma drawing out and focussing all willpower into advanced haki, which it did for Oden in the past, well the only character that managed to scar Kaido. Zoro is alrdy on his way to master the blade with his immense willpower and resolve while his haters can go ahead and deny it further, not that Oda cares btw.


Mate stick to what was shown ...

You bitch about Kid not having feats but you speculate everything about Zoro and always is way higher then what he has shown.

Oden feats are not Zoro's and you are using parallels where this time Luffy will face Kaido and you bitch about portrait.

Also, bitch about me having a double standard when you do that 24/7 for Zoro and Admirals but always need panels for anyone else including Sanji that now you gave feats that he does not have and in a vs Zoro will demolish him typically Z fan.


Kamina. said:


> The description of S1 Advanced CoA is literally the same thing that Zoro discovered against Daz Bones only its without use of a weapon. What do you think the purpose of Oda throwing in that statement was?


So Zoro had the same level of what Luffy had vs BM in training camp ...
Yep talk about wanking.


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## Heart Over Blade (Mar 16, 2020)

M3 isn't winning this at all. They have no counter to this 



> Law uses his largest room further than the eye could see and teleports Zoro to the edge of that room, teleports some distance behind Zoro, repeats 1-2 times and Zoro is already too far and too lost to make his way back. AH3 then proceeds to beat Luffy + Sanji with low to mid diff, followed by neg diffing Zoro. This is just one way for AH3 to low diff. There are many other ways to use Shambles that puts M3 at a serious disadvantage.
> 
> Ie. Luffy in G4 Boundman with Advanced CoA Level 2 and FS could easily rip the the sword from Zoro's mouth and probably the swords from Zoro's hands, and fling them far away essentially crippling Zoro. M3's Luffy can't do the same because and Law can just use Shambles to undo it, and Law doesn't necessarily need his sword to fight. *Even if Law was feeling generous and chooses not to permanently remove Zoro,* t*here's nothing stopping Law from teleporting any of them to the furthest part of his room and temporarily removing them from battle to put the other side at a severe 3v1 disadvantage, allowing the lone opponent to be quickly incapacitated. He could repeat this if he has to. *


 
Law has plenty of reason to use his largest room from the start in a battle. One, because he knows how strong his opponents are, one of whom is potentially 1-2 tiers above himself. One wrong move and he can be heavily wounded if not killed. He's got more pressing things to worry about than his future life*span*. Two, he can always shrink his room after removing one of them or when an enemy goes down. Key is , there's nothing stopping him from doing so if he wanted to win bad enough.

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## Kamina. (Mar 16, 2020)

Ren. said:


> Black or not he does not have a black blade so that is mute, his S1 is nowhere to be seen and that is based on one blade, remove that and he does not even have even that.
> 
> You were said that he showed what Luffy was using in Alabasta, so he used that in Alabasta but he can't even use it now with Enma?
> It makes no sense.
> ...



"When we want to cut something our swords will cut the thickest of steel and when we don't want to cut something our sword will not cut the thinnest of paper" - Hyogoro explaining "Ryou" i.e Stage 1 Advanced CoA

This is an obvious through back to Alabasta, im seriously confused how you are trying to say this is something different to what Zoro posses. Its not even that difficult of a ability to achieve, people like Sentoumaru have that shit. Mastery of a Haki style doesn't mean you're top tier, its relative to how powerful you are as a person which is why even if you gave S1 Advanced Haki to some east blue fodder and put him up against say Luffy without advanced CoA he'd get stomped.

If you're wondering why Zoro hasn't thrown up any forcefields its because that only happens when you're using S1 Advance without a weapon as seen through Hyogoro, Rayleigh, Sentomaru & even Luffy.

The reason I brought speculation of Zoro having even beyond S1 is because its easy to infer that there is some relation between extremely high CoA and having a blackened blade.

Broken Blade -> You will never break your blades if coated in CoA -> Shisui/Yoru are permanently blackened through some mechanic. You can follow the logic to see that if Oda is already letting Zoro talk about black blades (Hitetsu) its obvious that his CoA is high level and thus its reasonable to assume its above lower level advanced.

I don't know what you're talking about in relation to Enma dude? He hasn't fought anyone since getting enma nor do I understand why you think he would be incapable of using Advanced Haki when he does fight?? The only problem we've seen with Enma is its that it tries to devour the users Haki. The tug of war between user and sword has no bearing on the level of Haki used.

I think you quoted the wrong guy for that Kidd part bro I never talked about him.

Luffy did NOT have S1 Advanced CoA prior to meeting Hyogoro meaning his CoA was inferior to Zoro's. Its not wank you're actively denying the facts if you're disagreeing with me here. If you want to tell me Luffy's CoA > Zoro's right now i'd say sure because we can only speculate on Zoro's while Luffy has shown S2 Advanced Haki.

Reason Law's feats are not compared to Swordsmen feats is because he isn't using sword skill/strength to cut things, its just his devil fruit's ability. If he were to slice diamond with his fruit its not the same as swordsman using their strength to slice through diamond. I'm not really one to compare feats because I think Oda doesn't give a shit about them relative to each other for calculation purposes but im just saying thats why they aren't really fair comparisons.

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## Ren. (Mar 16, 2020)

Kamina. said:


> "When we want to cut something our swords will cut the thickest of steel and when we don't want to cut something our sword will not cut the thinnest of paper" - Hyogoro explaining "Ryou" i.e Stage 1 Advanced CoA
> 
> This is an obvious through back to Alabasta, im seriously confused how you are trying to say this is something different to what Zoro posses. Its not even that difficult of a ability to achieve, people like Sentoumaru have that shit. Mastery of a Haki style doesn't mean you're top tier, its relative to how powerful you are as a person which is why even if you gave S1 Advanced Haki to some east blue fodder and put him up against say Luffy without advanced CoA he'd get stomped.


When was this explained as what you said, this is your interpretation.


Kamina. said:


> If you're wondering why Zoro hasn't thrown up any forcefields its because that only happens when you're using S1 Advance without a weapon as seen through Hyogoro, Rayleigh, Sentomaru & even Luffy.


Again no panel fo this ... you have no explanation for that but now Zoro without basic of haki does that in Alabasta ... LOL!


Kamina. said:


> The reason I brought speculation of Zoro having even beyond S1 is because its easy to infer that there is some relation between extremely high CoA and having a blackened blade.


You are speculation on a specualation using another speculation to speculate some more.
You first have no panel for BOA, then you have no panel for what Luffy did with a weapon. then you have not panel for what a black blade is, Enma is more powerful than Shisui and one is a black blade an not the other.

Roger shits on Mihawk and he does not have one, WB the same.



Kamina. said:


> Broken Blade -> You will never break your blades if coated in CoA -> Shisui/Yoru are permanently blackened through some mechanic. You can follow the logic to see that if Oda is already letting Zoro talk about black blades (Hitetsu) its obvious that his CoA is high level and thus its reasonable to assume its above lower level advanced.


Again the same shit was used to prove how strong his COA is, COA + super blade is not the same as COA + flesh.

And Luffy is the MC and will never have a wapon so no Black blade in the context or Roger, Ray and WB is not about uber COA alone, it is more.


Kamina. said:


> I don't know what you're talking about in relation to Enma dude? He hasn't fought anyone since getting enma nor do I understand why you think he would be incapable of using Advanced Haki when he does fight?? The only problem we've seen with Enma is its that it tries to devour the users Haki. The tug of war between user and sword has no bearing on the level of Haki used.


Mate you used something with Enam to prove that he has a certain level of haki, he should have that advance COA with his bare hand, COA is not related to a toll.


Kamina. said:


> Luffy did NOT have S1 Advanced CoA prior to meeting Hyogoro meaning his CoA was inferior to Zoro's its not wank you're actively denying the facts if you're disagreeing with me here. If you want to tell me Luffy's CoA > Zoro's right now i'd say sure because we can only speculate on Zoro's while Luffy has shown S2 Advanced Haki.


Sorry but it is, Oda never shown  COA for Zoro before the Time Skip but you believe he had an advance form without knowing the basics and you use that for Zoro's current level and he had advance COA before but ne never showed it before Enma ... mkay.


Kamina. said:


> Reason Law's feats are not compared to Swordsmen feats is because he isn't using sword skill/strength to cut things, its just his devil fruit's ability


That irrelevant I am comparing feats, it is like I can't compare Garp's punches vs Luffy's punches because Luffy uses a DF.


Kamina. said:


> f he were to slice diamond with his fruit its not the same as swordsman using their strength to slice through diamond.


For you maybe for me it is the same because I don't care how he cuts it but if he can or not.


Kamina. said:


> I'm not really one to compare feats because I think Oda doesn't give a shit about them relative to each other for calculation purposes but I'm just saying that's why they aren't really fair comparisons.


I understand but people say Mihawk is the strongest regardless of DF or no so no I am no going to ignore DF feats because some don't like that!


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## Corax (Mar 16, 2020)

Source of damage matters a lot. This means that in direct sword clash Zoro is going to beat Law easily,since his feat is purely skill and strengh related,while Law's is DF related.


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## TheWiggian (Mar 16, 2020)

Ren. said:


> Wait Sanji fans look at this.
> 
> Next time Zoro vs  Sanji is in place.
> 
> ...



Zoro has CoO feats unlike Kid and Law you mad about that? 

Holy shit you're not just a double standart guy but also a huge Zoro hater and liar at this point:



Call the Sanji fans but iam gonna do the same to them what i did to you. And well I'll give Sanji props for his new feats and his fighting style that hard counters character's that have no CoO feats while you cry yourself into sleep.

Also lol at @ a troll and huge swordman hater like yourself instead of a real Sanji fan like @Kishido or @Sir Curlyhat



Ren. said:


> Also, Zoro has now short burst speed next to Snake man's and Bound man Soru also his reaction time is higher than Luffy ...
> Tell me more...



Perhaps i should've been more clear about it especially after finding out that you don't grasp the difference between characters with feats  and featless ones. Obviously i wouldn't be dumb enough to claim Zoro would compete with G4 or invisible RS acceleration speeds but other than that there are no instances where Luffy and Sanji would outshine Iai sheath/blitz movements from Zoro.

Also: _"reaction time that was always among the highest level of the M3"
_
Among the highest level =//= _"his reaction time is higher than Luffy..."_ 

What should i expect from you at this point? Putting words in my mouth that i didn't said, being dishonest, rejecting evidence.



Ren. said:


> So Pica is now bigger and wider than a mountain range?
> 
> And I am retarded?
> 
> We are comparing Pica with this:



As impressive as this looks there is no room around the island, it's just an extended split. Law would've to put up a room at minimum the size of the king plateau if not bigger because Pica was towering above it which we know that comes at a high price of his lifespan.



Ren. said:


> Mate stick to what was shown ...
> 
> You bitch about Kid not having feats but you speculate everything about Zoro and always is way higher then what he has shown.
> 
> Oden feats are not Zoro's and you are using parallels where this time Luffy will face Kaido and you bitch about portrait.



Well i did and Zoro's haki has been shown to be the same as Luffy's intead it's concentrated in Enma instead of fists. Me bringing up Oden is an obvious hint from Oda in which direction Zoro is going currently, there is evidence for it while you entertain the idea to give Kid and Law feats they never even came close to on panel.

*Spoiler*: __ 









Even if we disregard the parallel to Oden who Zoro is confirmed to surpass by raising Enma's rank making it a black blade it's by far more than what Kid and Law have regarding the CoA department.



Ren. said:


> Also, bitch about me having a double standard when you do that 24/7 for Zoro and Admirals but always need panels for anyone else including Sanji that now you gave feats that he does not have and in a vs Zoro will demolish him typically Z fan.



Bitch here and bitch here, what are you? A toddler? Act according to your age or don't quote me. I asked you for evidence for Kid and you have nothing, now you're trying to derail the thread into an admiral discussion.

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## Kamina. (Mar 16, 2020)

@Ren. I mean this in a nice way but you don't read the story objectively, you just pick and choose what suits your argument and at other times deny things that you dislike.

What's the point of debating which character is stronger or whatever if you're outright going to deny things like certain feats being incomparable or obvious statements from the author.

Things just go round in circles if you don't argue objectively.

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## Ren. (Mar 16, 2020)

Kamina. said:


> @Ren. I mean this in a nice way but you don't read the story objectively, you just pick and choose what suits your argument and at other times deny things that you dislike.
> 
> What's the point of debating which character is stronger or whatever if you're outright going to deny things like certain feats being incomparable or obvious statements from the author.
> 
> Things just go round in circles if you don't argue objectively.


I can be fair but are you fair to Kid.

For example, do we know if Zoro has stronger COA?
Do we know if Zoro is stronger?

Also when we said that he is YC1, do we do that ojectly, no we don't!

We use what we feel it is that he must do to push the story further.

So yeah I am not going to be lenient when we are debating a vs where Zoro is in the story.

For example, TB argument, that is used to put his endurance above Luffy when we know in fact that Luffy in each arc has that kind of situation and Zoro is always wounded by Mihawk, Mr1, etc but we use that for Zoro, which was debunked by ID and MF next arc.

My point is we can do that if you want but only if you also do it fairly for his shortcomings and we don't downplay the others, can we do that?
@TheWiggian  and @T.D.A  I know they can't so I will not bother of even be trying that.


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## Ren. (Mar 16, 2020)

TheWiggian said:


> Perhaps i should've been more clear about it especially after finding out that you don't grasp the difference between characters with feats and featless ones


Ok, I agree where are the feats of Kid with the help of which you can put Zoro above him?
Lack of feats is not an option, use portrait like you did for Zoro's COA with Oden and Black blades.


TheWiggian said:


> Also: _"reaction time that was always among the highest level of the M3"
> _
> Among the highest level =//= _"his reaction time is higher than Luffy..."_


So what was your point, he is from the m3, of course, he has reaction time next to them ...


TheWiggian said:


> Well i did and Zoro's haki has been shown to be the same as Luffy's intead it's concentrated in Enma instead of fists.


Only with Enma so how are you sure that is his feats and not Enma's?


TheWiggian said:


> Me bringing up Oden is an obvious hint from Oda in which direction Zoro is going currently


So why don't you use what Oda said about Kid that he will end Kaido next to Luffy?


TheWiggian said:


> there is evidence for it while you entertain the idea to give Kid and Law feats they never even came close to on panel.


So wait using Oden's feats for Zoro and that he will have a black blade is what?


TheWiggian said:


> aw would've to put up a room at minimum the size of the king plateau if not bigger because Pica was towering above it which we know that comes at a high price of his lifespan.


And what if he has to this is a vs, he can use all the lifespan he wants and die after, why is that a point?


TheWiggian said:


> I asked you for evidence for Kid and you have nothing, now you're trying to derail the thread into an admiral discussion.


Wait you asked me for Kid's feats but you use black blades and Oden's feats to put Zoro's COA to a place that it was not on panel so what are you doing if not using portrait and future feats?

So yeah share that for Kid and we can agree.


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## Amatérasu’s Son (Mar 16, 2020)

Ren. said:


> Every time we saw the 3 version explained it had an aura around his fist.
> 
> Did he mastered, most likely no.
> 
> ...







Ren. said:


> Mate what are you about when do you have something that was not forced by Enma from Zoro where I can show you actual Scans where Luffy does that without a tool :
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I think you misunderstand me, I was not arguing for Zoro having advanced Haki at all.



TheWiggian said:


> Might aswell give Kid the ability of manipulating iron in a characters blood



Don't tempt Oda. 



Etherborn said:


> I don't think the Raid Suit increases his speed. It makes him more durable and lets him go invisible last time I checked.



No, the Raid Suit has been highlighted as increasing stats, flight speed was specifically highlighted.



TheWiggian said:


> Pretty weird he haven't won a single fight against a competent opponent with that combo. A character with Vergo's speed easily can intercept those abilities not to mention that the strawhats alrdy have intel on them. Sanji with the RS for example has far more mobility and speed than Vergo, who he was compareable to at PH.



Vergo is a terrible example. Law and Smoker were playing for time until Smoker could steal Law's heart back. As soon as that was done, Vergo was annihilated.



Mrdude said:


> Zoro didn't channel anything from his sword it was forcibly drawn from him by Enma. Zoro hasn't actually shown the ability to use Ryou outside of Enma.
> 
> Also Ryou is the the basic version of advanced haki as there are two levels to it. There is emission and there is internal destruction. What Luffy did was the highest level of Advanced Armament Haki.





Kamina. said:


> The description of S1 Advanced CoA is literally the same thing that Zoro discovered against Daz Bones only its without use of a weapon. What do you think the purpose of Oda throwing in that statement was?





Kamina. said:


> "When we want to cut something our swords will cut the thickest of steel and when we don't want to cut something our sword will not cut the thinnest of paper" - Hyogoro explaining "Ryou" i.e Stage 1 Advanced CoA
> 
> This is an obvious through back to Alabasta, im seriously confused how you are trying to say this is something different to what Zoro posses. Its not even that difficult of a ability to achieve, people like Sentoumaru have that shit. Mastery of a Haki style doesn't mean you're top tier, its relative to how powerful you are as a person which is why even if you gave S1 Advanced Haki to some east blue fodder and put him up against say Luffy without advanced CoA he'd get stomped.
> 
> ...



No. Ryuo is what Busoshoku Haki is called in Wano. It is not specifically Advanced Haki. Which makes sense. All Haki is Will based. The ability we used to called Breath of All Things, is specifically tied to a swordsman willfully harming or not harming a target. Though it is fair to say that Zoro was the first to gain a haki based skill in the Strawhats it was just a skill. Despite having that ability, harming logia and cutting through a pacifista or even protecting his blade from rusting were still outside of his ability back then.

Advanced Busoshoku Haki as we know it is another technique, that takes the unused Ryuo around the body and flows it to the parts that need it, which is a completely different skill from what Zoro put into practice in Alabasta.

In Alabasta he gained a single facet of Busoshoku Haki, but he didn't gain the full set of Haki abilities or start developing it beyond basic increasing of his will from combat experience and training.

As far as Enma is concerned it will increase Zoro's skill and control with Busoshoku Haki by having any lapse in his control result in the sword draining his Haki. That's basically Haki weight training, which is why it's no wonder Zoro loved the sword.

But I agree that Law's cutting should be taken as apart from a standard swordsman's cuts.



TheWiggian said:


> Zoro has the nice privilege to train his haki passively by Enma drawing out and focussing all willpower into advanced haki, which it did for Oden in the past, well the only character that managed to scar Kaido. Zoro is alrdy on his way to master the blade with his immense willpower and resolve while his haters can go ahead and deny it further, not that Oda cares btw.



But that has just shown to improve his skill with Buso: Koka. We have yet to see anything related to Advanced Haki skills.




TheWiggian said:


> As impressive as this looks there is no room around the island, it's just an extended split. Law would've to put up a room at minimum the size of the king plateau if not bigger because Pica was towering above it which we know that comes at a high price of his lifespan.



It's not lifespan it's stamina. When he starts throwing around that kind of stuff for extended periods when he's already burned all his stamina, then it cuts into his lifespan. But in a life or death situation I doubt he cares about shaving some months off of the end of his life.  But he actually did throw up one on the scale of the King's Plateau when he was faking his death against Doflamingo, so that's not a stretch. The ability he used to destroy Pica is a very large Amputate. As far as I understand he still requires a Room for Amputate.


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## Corax (Mar 16, 2020)

Law's biggest room is a bit bigger than flower mountain (around 1/8 or so of Dressrosa's diameter). And he had to spent his life force to create it. So yes,he can,but this is dangerous for him.


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## Ren. (Mar 16, 2020)

Corax said:


> Law's biggest room is a bit bigger than flower mountain (around 1/8 or so of Dressrosa's diameter). And he had to spent his life force to create it. So yes,he can,but this is dangerous for him.


How do you think he cut PH?


Corax said:


> So yes,he can,but this is dangerous for him.


Not a point in a death match


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## Corax (Mar 16, 2020)

Ren. said:


> How do you think he cut PH?
> 
> Not a point in a death match


At PH he actually cut only 1 mountain. Even if he created some kind of room it wasn't bigger than Dressrosa's. After all he didn't say that he spent his life force to do that slash,so logically it was far less taxing.


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## Ren. (Mar 16, 2020)

Corax said:


> At PH he actually cut only 1 mountain. Even if he created some kind of room it wasn't bigger than Dressrosa's. After all he didn't say that he spent his life force to do that slash,so logically it was far less taxing.


He cut a mountain range, I posted that picture several times.


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## Corax (Mar 16, 2020)

Ren. said:


> He cut a mountain range, I posted that picture several times.


It is a mountain,you can even see Ceasar's SAD tanks and rooms of his base on the page. Law is capped at mountain. His room that was a bit bigger than mountain costed him his life force. This is his max.

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## Ren. (Mar 16, 2020)

Corax said:


> It is a mountain,you can even see Ceasar's SAD tanks and rooms of his base on the page. Law is capped at mountain. His room that was a bit bigger than mountain costed him his life force. This is his max.



Panels disagree, what can we do


Lengthwise that is half PH aka half an island so yeah let's not do again the Iron vs concrete thing.


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## Corax (Mar 16, 2020)

Ren. said:


> Panels disagree, what can we do


Caesar's base is in 45 (or 217 on the other page) px. mountain. It isn't even visible from that distance,because it is really small.


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## Ren. (Mar 16, 2020)

Corax said:


> Caesar's base is in 45 (or 217 on the other page) px. mountain. It isn't even visible from that distance,because it is really small.


For the final time that is more than jus mountain that the cut reached as you can see here:


He cut all the mountains on the ice side:


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## Corax (Mar 16, 2020)

Ren. said:


> For the final time that is more than jus mountain that the cut reached as you can see here:
> 
> 
> He cut all the mountains on the ice side:


This one in the center is 45 px. mountain with 2 peaks. Caesar's base is a bit below the second (shorter peak). May be it went a bit further,but it wasn't shown how far. Anyway it correlates well with his Dressrosa's feat. He created a room a bit bigger than flower mountain and said that it was dangerous and costed him his life force. No feat outlier here.


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## Ren. (Mar 16, 2020)

Corax said:


> This one in the center is 45 px. mountain with 2 peaks. Caesar's base is a bit below the second (shorter peak). May be it went a bit further,but it wasn't show how far. Anyway it correlates well with his Dressrosa's feat. He created a room a bit bigger than flower mountain and said that it was dangerous and costed him his life force. No feat outlier here.


And he did this without saying anything maybe the fact that he was trashed by DD and Fuji several times and his stamina was low so he needed life force?

Also, that slash was mountain + at the minimum in PH and he did not say one word.


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## Corax (Mar 16, 2020)

Ren. said:


> And he did this without saying anything maybe the fact that he was trashed by DD and Fuji several times and his stamina was low so he needed life force?


This is irrelevant. At PH his heart was crushed by Vergo at least 2 times,he was all beaten up by Vergo and before it had to spent a lot of time in another body. He also was very low on stamina and suffered a lot of damage.


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## Ren. (Mar 16, 2020)

Corax said:


> This is irrelevant. At PH his heart was crushed by Vergo at least 2 times,he was all beaten up by Vergo and before it had to spent a lot of time in another body. He also was very low on stamina and suffered a lot of damage.


Come on don't BS me.

Fuji + DD then DD, then DD and his arm cut and shot several times vs his heart squished + some fists and kicks.

What he received in PH is like 5% of what was done to him in DR.


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## Aaron Tōshiro (Mar 16, 2020)

The A3 mid Diffs and that's me being Generous lol

Luffy will beat Luffy

Kidd might stomp Zorro with his DF advantage, Ok... Let's be nice, Kid mid diffs

Law is Overkill for Sanji 

A3 combo can be very deadly 

In fact, no _single character_ can beat this trio Post Wano


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## Ren. (Mar 16, 2020)

Aaron Tōshiro said:


> In fact, no _single character_ can beat this trio Post Wano


Prim BB with 3 DF still stomps


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## Aaron Tōshiro (Mar 16, 2020)

Ren. said:


> Prim BB with 3 DF still stomps


BB having 2 DF is powerful enough


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## Corax (Mar 16, 2020)

Ren. said:


> Come on don't BS me.
> 
> Fuji + DD then DD, then DD and his arm cut and shot several times vs his heart squished + some fists and kicks.
> 
> What he received in PH is like 5% of what was done to him in DR.


Doflamingo missed his pistol shots because Law substituted himself. But yes,cut off arm might be a greater damage than squished heart and several fullbody CoA strikes from Vergo. But Law also had a fight vs Smoker an hour or so before. Anyway difference in damage and stamina loss wasn't that major. Law even had enough for his ultimate (Gama knife). So the life trade had more to do with the size of his room,not stamina left.


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## Ren. (Mar 16, 2020)

Corax said:


> But Law also had a fight vs Smoker an hour or so before. Anyway difference in damage and stamina loss wasn't that major. Law even had enough for his ultimate (Gama knife). So the life trade had more to do with the size of his room,not stamina left.


Come on what he did on DressRosa is nothing remotely the same as he did in PH.


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## Corax (Mar 16, 2020)

Ren. said:


> Come on what he did on DressRosa is nothing remotely the same as he did in PH.


Your point is moot anyway. Law had a lot of stamina left after the room. He even used several shambles,gamma knife and counter shock. And he commented on the size of his room in the same sentence.


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## Ren. (Mar 16, 2020)

Corax said:


> Your point is moot anyway. Law had a lot of stamina left after the room. He even used several shambles,gamma knife and counter shock. And he commented on the size of his room in the same sentence.


You won ... you are a worse version of me


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## Kishido (Mar 16, 2020)

Sanji 

Even if he loses you won't see it cuz he is invisible


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## Ezekjuninor (Mar 16, 2020)

Auction trio are winning this. Law is simply broken in a team setting. Even if I ignored the teamwork factor, Kidd should be stronger than Zoro imo since he's Luffy's only legitimate rival like Vegeta to Goku. I doubt Zoro will ever be stronger than Kidd. Also, I'd put Law above Sanji until shown otherwise.


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