# Lucifer, Michael, Raphael, Gabriel vs The Avatars (Charmed)



## posterer (Jun 25, 2012)

Who wins?
Just in case someone doesn't know the avatars:


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## ThanatoSeraph (Jun 25, 2012)

Okay, you state in another thread that you think that the avatars stomp any Supernatural angels.

Going by that, I'd say that Lucifer solos.


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## posterer (Jun 25, 2012)

ThanatoSeraph said:


> Okay, you state in another thread that you think that the avatars stomp any Supernatural angels.
> 
> Going by that, I'd say that Lucifer solos.



Nope, I said that the Avatars solo the other team.
And I won't be intervening in this battle. It's just the Avatars are personifications of different concepts of reality, and they have unlimited control over time, space and reality. Just sayin. Also, if you want some videos of time manipulation and reality warping I can give you. 
And also, they can erase beings from existence.


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## Əyin (Jun 25, 2012)

Like I said before, show me a video or translation that show them have complete control over reality.


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## ThanatoSeraph (Jun 25, 2012)

posterer said:


> Nope, the archangels didn't display UNLIMITED control over reality. And the Avatar's reality warping is much better than the archangels.
> And the archangels aren't beyond time and space like the avatars.



I love how you lie about it so soon after originally posting it.

I also love the NLF you used.


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## posterer (Jun 25, 2012)

AntiReality said:


> Like I said before, show me a video or translation that show them have complete control over reality.




In this link you will see that Cole turner as an avatar reality warps, and the avatars also achieve Utopia by reality warping. 
There is also an Avatar that sended the Charmed ones back in time to 17s.


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## Chuck (Jun 25, 2012)

Lucifer bound an abstract being, Death, to his will, he should be able to bind the Avatars too then since Death is also an abstract/concept


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## ThanatoSeraph (Jun 25, 2012)

posterer said:


> In this link you will see that Cole turner as an avatar reality warps, and the avatars also achieve Utopia by reality warping.
> There is also an Avatar that sended the Charmed ones back in time to 17s.



And that gives us... absolutely no idea how strong their reality warping is. Good job.


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## posterer (Jun 25, 2012)

The Flying Chuck said:


> Lucifer bound an abstract being, Death, to his will, he should be able to bind the Avatars too then since Death is also an abstract/concept



Sam and Dean (two mortals) bound death. Not impressive.


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## ThanatoSeraph (Jun 25, 2012)

The Flying Chuck said:


> Lucifer bound an abstract being, Death, to his will, he should be able to bind the Avatars too then since Death is also an abstract/concept



Wasn't that spell specifically designed to bind Death?

I'm not sure that it would work on anyone else.


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## posterer (Jun 25, 2012)

ThanatoSeraph said:


> And that gives us... absolutely no idea how strong their reality warping is. Good job.



 read at least the first paragraph. And see their powers.


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## Black Leg Sanji (Jun 25, 2012)

Cole warped SF when he became an Avatar

Best i can remember they did individualy


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## ThanatoSeraph (Jun 25, 2012)

@posterer: That still gives us no idea of how strong their reality warping is.

Try again.


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## posterer (Jun 25, 2012)

ThanatoSeraph said:


> Wasn't that spell specifically designed to bind Death?
> 
> I'm not sure that it would work on anyone else.



Also, when the Avatars come on earth, all the earth stops except who they choose. They also have intangibility, and with this form they can strike enemies and the enemies can't strike them. They erase beings from the very existence. etc....


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## Darth Nihilus (Jun 25, 2012)

>Reality warping
>Power of the Avatars lies in their collective 

I can tell it's been awhile since I've watched Charmed


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## ThanatoSeraph (Jun 25, 2012)

Black Leg Sanji said:


> Cole warped SF when he became an Avatar
> 
> Best i can remember they did individualy



Thanks for posting a feat. Can you please clarify what SF is?


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## Black Leg Sanji (Jun 25, 2012)

Posting the scene where he did it just in case:





ThanatoSeraph said:


> Thanks for posting a feat. Can you please clarify what SF is?



San Francisco


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## Chuck (Jun 25, 2012)

posterer said:


> Sam and Dean (two mortals) bound death. Not impressive.





ThanatoSeraph said:


> Wasn't that spell specifically designed to bind Death?
> 
> I'm not sure that it would work on anyone else.



it still doesn't diminish the fact that a personification of a concept was bound to other people

the archangels may be able to create a way of binding these Avatars too


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## posterer (Jun 25, 2012)

ThanatoSeraph said:


> Thanks for posting a feat. Can you please clarify what SF is?



The Avatars reality warped all the earth, they killed all the demons and gave the people of earth no free will. How about that for a feat?


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## posterer (Jun 25, 2012)

The Flying Chuck said:


> it still doesn't diminish the fact that a personification of a concept was bound to other people
> 
> the archangels may be able to create a way of binding these Avatars too



Death in supernatural can be bound by mortals. The Avatars can't, their power was feared by the elders who could do jack ass to the avatars and who were depicted as the most powerful beings in the universe.


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## ThanatoSeraph (Jun 25, 2012)

posterer said:


> The Avatars reality warped all the earth, they killed all the demons and gave the people of earth no free will. How about that for a feat?



If that's the case then sure they're stronger. Planetary reality warping is better than the Archangels' reality warping.

You can back this up, of course.


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## Əyin (Jun 25, 2012)

ThanatoSeraph said:


> If that's the case then sure they're stronger. Planetary reality warping is better than the Archangels' reality warping.



Because we have no clue how powerful are the Avatars, we'll have just wait him for evidence. I just asked him on the other thread.


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## posterer (Jun 25, 2012)

ThanatoSeraph said:


> If that's the case then sure they're stronger. Planetary reality warping is better than the Archangels' reality warping.
> 
> You can back this up, of course.



 here are some images of this.

If you want to see the full video then start at 22:45 Tsunade


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## Black Leg Sanji (Jun 25, 2012)

ThanatoSeraph said:


> If that's the case then sure they're stronger. Planetary reality warping is better than the Archangels' reality warping.
> 
> You can back this up, of course.



They needed their collective power and the Power of Three to do it

Also, interesting that the Avatars needed to replenish their forces

Seems like it drains them alot


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## posterer (Jun 25, 2012)

Black Leg Sanji said:


> They needed their collective power and the Power of Three to do it
> 
> Also, interesting that the Avatars needed to replenish their forces
> 
> Seems like it drains them alot



They only needed the power of three because one of the members was dead.


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## posterer (Jun 25, 2012)

ThanatoSeraph said:


> If that's the case then sure they're stronger. Planetary reality warping is better than the Archangels' reality warping.
> 
> You can back this up, of course.



Also I must add something. Leo as an avatar put Piper in a book. And made it reality. This is also reality warping.


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## Judas (Jun 25, 2012)

Both Lucifer and Michael are planetary beings individually, so them needing to work as a group to reality warp a single planet isn't enough to get them a win.


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## Əyin (Jun 25, 2012)

I've watched the episode, indeed they are manage reality warping at planet level, but they need to be in group and needed the Power of Three to do it. I wonder if they can do other reality warping as individual.

Oh, and I found the script :


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## posterer (Jun 25, 2012)

AntiReality said:


> I've watced them, indeed they are manage reality warping at planet level, but they need to be in group and needed the Power of Three to do it. I wonder if they can do other reality warping as individual.



They only needed the power of three because 1 member was dead. And when a member is dead, they get weakened.
They can reality warp individually.
Leo as an Avatar created a reality in a book. He sucked Piper to the book, and made it a reality. He reversed time to the 17s, etc...
Also, you must note, that taking away the free will of people isn't simple. It's considered impossible since only God can give free will to humans. Just pointing things out. If you want more feats, I can give you a lot more.
This is one of their powers too:
They can also be intangible and kill people with this form
I'll give you some more feats in a mininute.


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## Ulti (Jun 25, 2012)

Just going to point out that Angels can bypass intangibility, no comments on the match as I never watched Charmed though. 

But to be honest, other than the planetary reality warp (Lucy and Mike are planet razers anyway) their reality warping doesn't sound like anything Gabriel couldn't do.


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## posterer (Jun 25, 2012)

24:00 Tsunade


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## Əyin (Jun 25, 2012)

Castiel can do something like Energy Waves : (at 2:48)

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AC6YGwfN-bY[/YOUTUBE]

Angels in true form are incorporeal.


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## posterer (Jun 25, 2012)

AntiReality said:


> Castiel can do something like Energy Waves :
> 
> [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AC6YGwfN-bY[/YOUTUBE]
> 
> Angels in true form are incorporeal.



No he can't. These were not just some random demons. Trust me I watched all of charmed. The Charmed ones themselves weren't able to deal with them. This energy blast vanquished them all.
Also, I told you they can create dimensions with a whim like Leo.


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## Judas (Jun 25, 2012)

So can Gabriel...


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## posterer (Jun 25, 2012)

AntiReality said:


> Castiel can do something like Energy Waves : (at 2:48)
> 
> [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AC6YGwfN-bY[/YOUTUBE]
> 
> Angels in true form are incorporeal.



Can Archangels nulify the enemy's powers?


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## posterer (Jun 25, 2012)

The Penetrator said:


> Just going to point out that Angels can bypass intangibility, no comments on the match as I never watched Charmed though.
> 
> But to be honest, other than the planetary reality warp (Lucy and Mike are planet razers anyway) their reality warping doesn't sound like anything Gabriel couldn't do.



Understand something: The Avatars are beyond good or evil, they aren't creatures of destruction. They want to control not destroy. To take away the free will from a person is impossible. It's many times stated in many references that only God can give free will to humans and no one can take it back. So the Avatars achieved something great, much better than destroying a planet or other things.


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## posterer (Jun 25, 2012)

A low level demon in Charmed created a time loop also See:


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## Black Leg Sanji (Jun 25, 2012)

AntiReality said:


> I wonder if they can do other reality warping as individual.



Atleast City-level reality warp on their own going by what Cole did

Possibly higher since they did planetary warp as a group and they are few in number


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## Judas (Jun 25, 2012)

posterer said:


> Understand something: The Avatars are beyond good or evil, they aren't creatures of destruction. They want to control not destroy. *To take away the free will from a person is impossible. It's many times stated in many references that only God can give free will to humans and no one can take it back.* So the Avatars achieved something great, much better than destroying a planet or other things.



Wait...where was this stated? If that was in Charmed that's only an in-universe rule that would mean jack shit in an OBD setting.


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## posterer (Jun 25, 2012)

Tsunade from 0 till 2:10


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## posterer (Jun 25, 2012)

Judas said:


> Wait...where was this stated? If that was in Charmed that's only an in-universe rule that would mean jack shit in an OBD setting.



I'm just saying that it's very hard to do it. I just want to clarify that taking away the free will from somebody is very impressive.


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## posterer (Jun 25, 2012)

Black Leg Sanji said:


> Atleast City-level reality warp on their own going by what Cole did
> 
> Possibly higher since they did planetary warp as a group and they are few in number



Correction: Leo created an alternate reality inside a book with a whim.


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## Darth Nihilus (Jun 25, 2012)

posterer said:


> Also I must add something. Leo as an avatar put Piper in a book. And made it reality. This is also reality warping.



And Gabriel turned Sam into a car

Check


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## Judas (Jun 25, 2012)

posterer said:


> A low level demon in Charmed created a time loop also See:



By using a spell...


*Spoiler*: __ 





> [Scene: Rodriguez's place. Tempus is there holding an hour glass. He pours the sand out into a cauldron. You see out the window that it goes from night to day in seconds. Rodriguez appears.]
> 
> Tempus: Hurts to die, doesn't it? Especially at the hands of a witch.
> 
> ...






Where as the Archangels aren't restricted by this.



posterer said:


> I'm just saying that it's very hard to do it. I just want to clarify that taking away the free will from somebody is very impressive.



Doesn't answer my question, and if that's considered impressive by Charmed standards then that's pretty pathetic since you have fodder humans in Andy and Ansem who can make people do things against their will.


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## posterer (Jun 25, 2012)

Judas said:


> By using a spell...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yes by using a spell. And that's a problem? I mean, a shit tier can do that. Imagine what the Avatars can do with that.
And NO. It's considered impressive everywhere. To take away the free will of a person is very impressive.


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## Darth Nihilus (Jun 25, 2012)

Considering that it takes all of them combining their powers just to perform such a feat

No it's not


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## posterer (Jun 25, 2012)

Yeah, well. I would like to see the archangels do that.


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## Darth Nihilus (Jun 25, 2012)

They don't have to 

They can just speed up their molecules and move on to the next agenda 

And yes


There will be blood


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## Judas (Jun 25, 2012)

posterer said:


> Yes by using a spell. And that's a problem?



As in unless he has a cauldron and sand he can't do shit where as the Archangels have to only think or make a casual gestrue to get it done. 



> And NO. It's considered impressive everywhere. To take away the free will of a person is very impressive.



Where are you getting this? Taking away someone's free will isn't impressive by Supernatural standards...

wait...

are you applying religious beliefs in this debate?


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## Lord Genome (Jun 25, 2012)

also gabriel was reality warping the town when he was just a "trickster" in season 1(aliens, giant crocs, ghosts etc)

considering those are things that are supposed to be natural for tricksters, and Gab is a lot stronger than one, yeah


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## posterer (Jun 25, 2012)

Um, molecular manipulation comes in the package with the Avatar's powers. And they cannot be killed other than a position that existed centuries ago. 
And also, the Avatars don't bleed..........
I reccomend you watch this Link removed


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## Ulti (Jun 25, 2012)

that time loop was also created under his trickster getup IIRC and a wormhole.


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## Darth Nihilus (Jun 25, 2012)

This is aside from casual mind wipe and/or incapacitation just by poking someone on the head with an index finger

Lucifer causing global disasters just by being released from his cage

Gabriel and his reality warping save being taught by his big brother 

And you know what that means 

gamelwithchips.gif


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## Lord Genome (Jun 25, 2012)

The Penetrator said:


> that time loop was also created under his trickster getup IIRC and a wormhole.



it was, plus sending sam back in time after dean got shot that episode(making sam live 6 months IIRC after the groundhog day stuff)


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## posterer (Jun 25, 2012)

Judas said:


> As in unless he has a cauldron and sand he can't do shit where as the Archangels have to only think or make a casual gestrue to get it done.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



This is a shit tier we are talking about. The Avatars wouldn't need to think to do that.
I'm not a Christian, but the feat is impressive. I don't know how you are not seeing this.
I could tell you that destroying the planet in Charmed isn't impressive, how about that?


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## posterer (Jun 25, 2012)

Darth Nihilus said:


> This is aside from casual mind wipe and/or incapacitation just by poking someone on the head with an index finger
> 
> Lucifer causing global disasters just by being released from his cage
> 
> ...



Good to know. The Avatars stop time all over earth when they come.
Gabriel's reality warping isn't impressive compared to the Avatars.


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## Ulti (Jun 25, 2012)

Lesser Angels such as Balthazar being immune to a time stop

allmychips.gif


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## Darth Nihilus (Jun 25, 2012)

That and Gabriel fucking with Sam having him live out Tuesday repeatedly in a loop watching his brother getting killed in various ways

Balthazaar changing history via stopping the Titanic from sinking

etc etc


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## posterer (Jun 25, 2012)

You know, The Avatars live beyond time and reality. And from there they can erase beings from existence. So what's stopping them from erasing the archs here?


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## Lord Genome (Jun 25, 2012)

Darth Nihilus said:


> That and Gabriel fucking with Sam having him live out Tuesday repeatedly in a loop watching his brother getting killed in various ways
> 
> Balthazaar changing history via stopping the Titanic from sinking
> 
> etc etc



it was also him looping it while also manipulating the town to kill dean(he avoids the piano, he gets hit by a car etc)


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## Judas (Jun 25, 2012)

posterer said:


> This is a shit tier we are talking about. The Avatars wouldn't need to think to do that.



Except they would need to think to do anything. Unless of course they're beyond the aspect of processing a thought.



> I'm not a Christian, but the feat is impressive.



No it's not.



> I could tell you that destroying the planet in Charmed isn't impressive, how about that?



No one ever destroyed a planet in Charmed anyway.



posterer said:


> You know, The Avatars live beyond time and reality. And from there they can erase beings from existence. So what's stopping them from erasing the archs here?



The Archangels are nothing like the beings in Charmed.


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## ThanatoSeraph (Jun 25, 2012)

Taking away free will is... basic mind-fuckery.

Also, according to the wiki page you gave me, they did that through killing those who didn't follow their plan.

So it's even more useless.


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## posterer (Jun 25, 2012)

Judas said:


> Except they would need to think to do anything. Unless of course they're beyond the aspect of processing a thought.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



And no one in Supernatural destroyed a planet either. Lucifer was going to die in a battle that would "roast" the planet as in life wipe it.
I know some things from the Bible, and you know what Lucifer has problem with? It's the human's free will. It is very hard for him to corrupt a human soul. Just sayin.
And that isn't an argument. The Avatars can be seen as beyond creators, who were the elders. And the Elders couldn't do jack ass to the Avatars.
And unlike the weaklings pagan gods in supernatural. There are gods in charmed that are powerful. Like when Piper became Gaia the goddess of earth. And she shook the earth with her scream and made a thunderstorm across SF just for being angry. So yeah Charmed beings beat Supernatural beings.


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## Ulti (Jun 25, 2012)

No Lucifer was going to no sell that blast wave, it was said that Earth would be scorched in the *crossfire* and that Michael would end up killing him.


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## posterer (Jun 25, 2012)

ThanatoSeraph said:


> Taking away free will is... basic mind-fuckery.
> 
> Also, according to the wiki page you gave me, they did that through killing those who didn't follow their plan.
> 
> So it's even more useless.



Com'on, taking away free will is mind-fuckery?? Not even close. You see they had no problem vanquishing demons from earth, but taking away the free will was important.
And they erased beings who didn't obey the rules of the Avatars.


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## Seyta (Jun 25, 2012)

This thread appears fairly idiotic to me considering how the OP stated in the first few posts that he wouldn't interfere, but decided to argue once things didn't go his way.

On that note, I don't watch Supernatural, and I don't watch Charmed, but I'm going to go ahead and hijack this thread for a moment and say that THIS Michael solos:


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## posterer (Jun 25, 2012)

It's just no one here knows Charmed and I was pointing out the feats of Avatars. Nothing more. Because all I would see is "Lucifer snaps his fingers"


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## Judas (Jun 25, 2012)

posterer said:


> And no one in Supernatural destroyed a planet either.



Never said anyone did... 

Lucifer was going to die in a battle that would "roast" the planet as in life wipe it.[/QUOTE]

_#TellingMeSomethingIAlreadyKnow_

The blastwave itself wasn't going to kill him by the way, if that's what you were implying.



> I know some things from the Bible, and you know what Lucifer has problem with? It's the human's free will. It is very hard for him to corrupt a human soul. Just sayin.



Just wrong.

It was never implied that Lucifer had a problem corrupting Lilith's soul.



> And that isn't an argument. The Avatars can be seen as beyond creators, who were the elders. And the Elders couldn't do jack ass to the Avatars.



And the creators are comparable to Archangels, right?



> And unlike the weaklings pagan gods in supernatural. There are gods in charmed that are powerful. Like when Piper became Gaia the goddess of earth. And she shook the earth with her scream and made a thunderstorm across SF just for being angry. So yeah Charmed beings beat Supernatural beings.



And Lucifer mere presence on Earth caused natural disasters across the globe upon escaping the Cage.


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## Əyin (Jun 25, 2012)

Seyta said:


> This thread appears fairly idiotic to me considering how the OP stated in the first few posts that he wouldn't interfere, but decided to argue once things didn't go his way.
> 
> On that note, I don't watch Supernatural, and I don't watch Charmed, but I'm going to go ahead and hijack this thread for a moment and say that THIS Michael solos:



WRONG, THIS Michael solos  : 


*Spoiler*: __


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## posterer (Jun 25, 2012)

The creators aren't the archangels. It's God. Archangels are usually much more weaker than gods. But seeing how gods are in supernatural, there is no doubt that the archangels are more powerful in supernatural.
I know what happened when lucifer was released. I just wanted to clarify the fact that beings in Charmed are more powerful. Especially gods.


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## ThanatoSeraph (Jun 25, 2012)

posterer said:


> Com'on, taking away free will is mind-fuckery?? Not even close. You see they had no problem vanquishing demons from earth, but taking away the free will was important.
> And they erased beings who didn't obey the rules of the Avatars.



Yep. Basic mind-fuckery. 

So you're confirming what I said? Cool.


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## posterer (Jun 25, 2012)

ThanatoSeraph said:


> Yep. Basic mind-fuckery.
> 
> So you're confirming what I said? Cool.



Yes, ofcourse, a race of beings who could reality warp at planetary level, and create dimenions at whim and play with time, have a problem with mind-fuckery. Cool.


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## posterer (Jun 25, 2012)

read about Utopia. People cannot feel grief or loss. How the heck is it mind fuckery?


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## Raidou Kuzunoha (Jun 25, 2012)

And what is stopping the Angels from going full Angel and Gabriel dropping their ass in a Lazytown time loop?

And I remember the last time a psychic telepathically communicated with an Angel. Shit didn't end well.


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## Black Leg Sanji (Jun 25, 2012)

Wasteland Cole was suspectible to illusions and mind fuckery 

He was one of the higher tiers too


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## ThanatoSeraph (Jun 25, 2012)

posterer said:


> read about Utopia. People cannot feel grief or loss. How the heck is it mind fuckery?



Well you see, it involves fucking with people's minds.

Pretty simple concept here.


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## posterer (Jun 25, 2012)

Raidou Kuzunoha said:


> And what is stopping the Angels from going full Angel and Gabriel dropping their ass in a Lazytown time loop?



It's because they are beyond time and reality. And they also can create time loops, create dimensions, bend time, reality warp on a planetary scale, go intangible and kill people, etc...


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## posterer (Jun 25, 2012)

ThanatoSeraph said:


> Well you see, it involves fucking with people's minds.
> 
> Pretty simple concept here.



They can't FEEL grief or loss. Feeling something has nothing to do with the mind.  It's thinking that has to do with the mind.


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## Judas (Jun 25, 2012)

posterer said:


> They can't FEEL grief or loss. Feeling something has nothing to do with the mind.  It's thinking that has to do with the mind.



Who told you that? Empathy of any form is very much associated with telepathy.


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## posterer (Jun 25, 2012)

For god's sake, what are you people not getting here?? Emotions and mind are two very different things.


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## Tranquil Fury (Jun 25, 2012)

Emotions are also thoughts. Positive thoughts and  negative thoughts?You need Avatars to time travel while in SPN we have regular angels or gods(Cronos or Sisters of Fate) who can screw with time, all below an archangel. 

You have
-Time travel
-Time reversal
-Time loops
-Time stop
-Reality warping
-Teleportation
-Teleportation of others against their will

Plus a variety of other powers similar to avatars and other characters in charmed at their disposal. I need something that says the Avatars stand a chance, considering killing one of them drains their collective power while nothing like that will happen here to the brothers.

Perhaps we should start posting feats or reliable character statements to compare?Assuming it has'nt already been done in the previous pages?


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## ThanatoSeraph (Jun 25, 2012)

The most a single avatar has apparently is reality warping San Francisco.

As a group, they reality warped the world but this drained them.

That's what I've gathered anyway.


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## posterer (Jun 25, 2012)

Tranquil Fury said:


> Emotions are also thoughts. Positive thoughts and  negative thoughts?You need Avatars to time travel while in SPN we have regular angels or gods(Cronos or Sisters of Fate) who can screw with time, all below an archangel.
> 
> You have
> -Time travel
> ...



The avatars can do all of the above.
And that was Atropos not the greek mythology sisters of fate.
And yes. But thoughts aren't emotions.
And it takes the charmed ones a spell to manipulate time. There are millions of times in Charmed where time bending is used.
Killing one Avatar isn't a simple task.
I posted feats earlier.


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## posterer (Jun 25, 2012)

ThanatoSeraph said:


> The most a single avatar has apparently is warping San Francisco.
> 
> As a group, they warped the world but this drained them.
> 
> That's what I've gathered anyway.



They warped the world two times. First they changed it, then they turned it back. I'll give you proof if you want.


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## Tranquil Fury (Jun 25, 2012)

posterer said:


> The avatars can do all of the above



And I'm saying so can the Archangels, hell the angels can do most of what the Avatars do.



> And that was Atropos not the greek mythology sisters of fate



Atropos mentions her two sisters to Castiel, she is 1/3 goddesses of Fate but that makes no difference here.



> And yes. But thoughts aren't emotions



You say yes then you say no?Free will or negative feelings are not thought based?Are you just going start arguing technicalities to win now?Even playing your game, Gabriel has made his own dimension revolving around tv shows where he can make Sam into a talking car or canned laughter etc. The combined reality warping of all 4 brothers will take out enough Avatars to a point they can't do much, they need full strength of their collective for their bigger feats.



> And it takes the charmed ones a spell to manipulate time. There are millions of times in Charmed where time bending is used



Their combined power or one from the Book of shadows but hey, this literally is'nt making a difference. Angels and certain gods can do it, Zachariah can do it, all of them without spells or needing collective power. Source Cole needed to become an avatar to do his time altering, he was a top tier while SPN has 1,000s of nameless fodder angels who could do that. Original Source also needed a demon to undo a certain event that led to Prue being shot, then had the demon in question kill her. Otherwise the only thing we could agree on is that charmed and SPN have lots of time fuckery. 



> Killing one Avatar isn't a simple task



Wow, what an argument considering simply poisoning one would harm the others, am I remembering wrong?Nevermind killing Archangels is'nt a simple task for the Avatars either. Angels are described as inter dimensional waves of celestial intent, Archangels can kill them even without their blades. What makes an Avatar harder to kill?



> I posted feats earlier.



Link me. 

As for the reality warping, Paige simply teleporting saved her from being influenced by Cole's new timeline, accidental teleportation but we know it can work, Archangels can teleport and even time travel themselves. Time is a fluid they can bend, they just keep jumping in and out to avoid being caught in changes caused by time travel or reality warping(the latter drains the Avatar collective a lot). Actually can an Avatar reality warp on their own or do they need the collective?

Archangels have stuff like time travel, time stop, time loops, sending people to a pocket dimension where their laws no longer work, toss people into wormholes, organs removal with mere though, giving cancer, screwing with the planet's weather just individually for Lucy alone and other feats. While it's true that avatars can do some stuff Archangels can, the opposite is true itself. Avatars however have a very fundamental weakness that is the source of their strength.

It works both ways not just for the Avatars, killing one will screw with the collective's power however. Michael, Lucy, Gabriel and Raphael together would kill many. Illusions troll the Avatars while the brothers kill them off.

EDIT Cancer would not work mostly, remember Leo Avatar bringing people back from the dead but there are other ways.


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## posterer (Jun 25, 2012)

Killing an Avatar is impossible, only one potion that existed in the 17s could kill them. And the archangels have no knowledge about it.
Why would the Avatars screw wit the weather. They are resistant to time manipulation obviously. A powerful energy bolt from Cole didn't do anything to Alpha. And the elders kept screwing Leo with lightning and nothing happened. 
And Leo created a pocket dimension in a book. 
And I won't even comment on the cancer arguments.


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## Darth Nihilus (Jun 25, 2012)

>Killing an Avatar isn't a simple task
>Killing an Avatar is impossible 

Gamel with fucking chips in a gif


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## posterer (Jun 25, 2012)

Darth Nihilus said:


> >Killing an Avatar isn't a simple task
> >Killing an Avatar is impossible
> 
> Gamel with fucking chips in a gif



Go watch the episodes. They can't be killed. Stop talking about something you don't know about.


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## Catalyst75 (Jun 25, 2012)

When Belthazar changed time by making sure the Titanic did not sink, the Angels knew that time had been changed.  This means that Angels are immune to changes in the time-line.

Archangels are an entirely different matter.  Below God and Death, they are likely the most powerful beings in Supernatural.  Only two things can kill an Archangel: an Archangel's Blade, and...well, Castiel demonstrated the other method on Gabriel after absorbing the 40,000,000 souls of Purgatory.

My vote goes to the Archangels.


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## posterer (Jun 25, 2012)

Catalyst75 said:


> When Belthazar changed time by making sure the Titanic did not sink, the Angels knew that time had been changed.  This means that Angels are immune to changes in the time-line.
> 
> Archangels are an entirely different matter.  Below God and Death, they are likely the most powerful beings in Supernatural.  Only two things can kill an Archangel: an Archangel's Blade, and...well, Castiel demonstrated the other method on Gabriel after absorbing the 40,000,000 souls of Purgatory.
> 
> My vote goes to the Archangels.



You know i'm not even involving here the top tiers of charmed that are all below the Avatars. Take the cleaners for an example, they erase any being from existence. Or, the angel of death, who is beyond reality and time who cannot be bound unlike the SN death. There are also angels of destiny who are beyond everything, there are Shiva and Shakti who were going to destroy the universe just by having sex. Do I need to go on?


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## Darth Nihilus (Jun 25, 2012)

posterer said:


> Go watch the episodes. They can't be killed. Stop talking about something you don't know about.



Go watch Supernatural and stop changing your argument when it blows up in your face

Stop talking about something you don't know about


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## posterer (Jun 25, 2012)

Darth Nihilus said:


> Go watch Supernatural and stop changing your argument when it blows up in your face
> 
> Stop talking about something you don't know about



I've finished all the 7 seasons of supernatural........try again
Have you watched Charmed? Nope, definitely not.
Since you would know that a special potion is required to kill an avatar, that is made by Anubis long time ago. Stop acting like you know what you're talking about, and try again.


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## Darth Nihilus (Jun 25, 2012)

>Killing an Avatar isn't a simple task
>Killing an Avatar is impossible
>Changes his argument at a whim when he's being refuted
>Claims that I haven't watched Charmed
>Acts like he knows what he's talking about 

gamelwithchips.gif


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## Crimson Dragoon (Jun 25, 2012)

this thread is Mein Square/10


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## jayohenn (Mar 13, 2013)

arch angel feats.    it must be noted that each arch angel has assumingly the same powers limited only by there age amongst the brothers and there quoted imagination as well as individual personalities.
its a fact : all archangels r complete reality warpers and r quoted saying things like "know one makes us do anything"  etc. all arc angels make comments about the earth realm and humans as if its just another creation project by there father. lucifer says why would want to destroy this beautiful thing. there above good and evil time and space and can move through all time and space and separate dimensions at will. there mere presence on earth and possibly in other planet with an atmosphere disrupts the planets natural forces. which suggest that all four arcs should never occupy the same planet at one time. the only object that kills arc angels are arc angel blades that only arc angels can manifest. which is quoted the thing that can kill an angel is another angel. which must count double in the case of arch angels. 

Gabriel:
 is the weakess of the brothers. yet has the ability to hide is existence from his own brothers, and other gods, even copy the image and more then likly can kill other gods with ease, s hinted to by using the image of the trickster god for thousand of years un confronted by the owner.

Raphael: 
takes full control over the heavens and earth in the absent of his older brothers

lucifer; 
created his own sub species out of the human form god has created, master mind his plans,lead his demon army and followers and finale escape from hell from within hell itself.
capable of standing toe- to toe with his older brother in a battle that would nearly destroy the earth and more then half the living things on it (which has been quoted by Gabriel as being a dinner table, saying armeggeddon is like sunday dinner to him and his family.) bond all the four horseman (abstract beings)

micheal: 
whos name means who is like god.  remains full commander and chief over the heavens and earth and all other dimensions hinted to when his father is not around ie. father being god. 
capable of defeating all his brothers completely out classing them in power rang. 
can even possibly defeat lucifer without the use of his true vesal which leads to the assumption that in there true vessel there the closes they could get to full power while on earth not using there true form. 

there alot more feats mentioned and hinted towards, the supernatural universe i will save if i need it but honestly i dont need it . its clear from watching both series faithfully the avatars of charmed are no contest to the arc angels.  the personalities of the arch angels hinted by the other gods in supernatural's universes is border line racism against any and all beings not there are own which makes them act out on rage when being confronted. are very protective of each other. and all plays there rolls in the universe.  

Gabriel being the messenger of god would likely meet the avatar first and say back off. or my brothers and i will have to kill you. the avatar if lucky will attack, if even luckier would cause damage to Gabriel, only making him angry. and prompting the olders brothers to attack immanently. with the the snaps of fingers , and the last thing the avatars hear is one of the arc angels saying " know one dicks with our brother, but us"


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## Tranquil Fury (Mar 13, 2013)

Why was a year old thread necro'd?Please do not post in threads that are a year or older in the future. Yes the Avatars will not win against the brothers.


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## Əyin (Mar 13, 2013)

My god  why this was necro'ed? 

Really don't want posterer sees this and mark for his return just to wank again.

Reporting this.


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## Velocity (Mar 13, 2013)

Bad necro!


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