# Tobirama Vs Pain



## Itachі (Sep 10, 2013)

Tobirama Vs Pain

Location: Konoha Crater

Distance: 20M

Mindset: BL for both.

Restrictions: Tobirama cannot use Edo Tensei. Deva Path has 7 Seconds until he can use his abilities again and cannot use Chibaku Tensei.

Tobirama has no tags placed on them but has multiple around Konoha where the crater is. All 6 Paths are present by the way.

Tobirama has full knowledge. The Paths have none.


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## Trojan (Sep 10, 2013)

Pain still win.


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## DaVizWiz (Sep 10, 2013)

No, he does not. 

With multiple clones jumping around the crater spitting water guns and tagging them with unending exploding tags the paths have generally no chance at countering. He snipes and blows them apart systematically killing one after the other.

Without knowledge, the first few to die will be relatively easy as Nagato through the use of his paths is perhaps one of the most arrogant individuals in the manga. He will immediately underestimate Tobirama and you can be sure several of the paths are killed at near start battle- that is, Deva will be targeted first.


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## Trojan (Sep 10, 2013)

DaVizWiz said:


> No, he does not.
> 
> With multiple clones jumping around the crater spitting water guns and laying down unending exploding tags the paths have generally no chance at countering. He snipes and blows them apart systematically killing one after the other.



One ST will blow all of them away.


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## DaVizWiz (Sep 10, 2013)

Elia said:


> One ST will blow all of them away.


He doesn't even know they're placed around the crater. 

And no, it will not. A 6-way split of grandpa Nagato's chakra disallows any chance for a ST powerful enough to implode the entire crater full of tags. Moreover, it kills the other paths standing right beside him. Illogical, unlikely, and impossible. 

He's killed before attempting it as he will obviously be the first targeted with FTG and exploder tags.

It goes like this. Jump, Shunshin, Explode tag Deva, Jump. Boom. Boom. BOOM. BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM. 

He also has 0 knowledge on what FTG is.


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## Trojan (Sep 10, 2013)

DaVizWiz said:


> He doesn't even know they're placed around the crater.
> 
> And no, it will not. A 6-way split of grandpa Nagato's chakra disallows any chance for a ST powerful enough to implode the entire crater full of tags. Moreover, it kills the other paths standing right beside him.
> 
> Moreover, he's killed before attempting it as he will obviously be the first targeted with FTG and exploder tags.



Please, reread Pain's arc and come again and try to say this nonsense.  


> A 6-way split of grandpa Nagato's chakra disallows any chance for a ST powerful enough to implode the entire crater full of tags




the second point, I'm honestly not sure what are you taking about exactly, but if you mean the
explosion tags (the normal one) I'm not even sure how they will work against the paths??
if you mean his jutsu, then he can't use it because he can't use Edo here. 

all in all, I think Tobirama will lose regardless, Pain almost defeated the entire konoha
and defeated everyone in it. I don't see Tobirama in that level. 
especially that he also defeated SM Naruto if not for help + because he wanted him alive.
and I still see SM Naruto superior to Tobirama. 


> It goes like this. Jump, Shunshin, Explode tag Deva, Jump. Boom. Boom. BOOM. BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO M.


he can't use it without edo + ST is enough as I said. 


> He also has 0 knowledge on what FTG is.


It does not matter really, he will know how it works after a while, it's not complected.


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## DaVizWiz (Sep 10, 2013)

> Please, reread Pain's arc and come again and try to say this nonsense.


Excellent counter. Allow me to now to projectile vomit in disgust. 



> the second point, I'm honestly not sure what are you taking about exactly, but if you mean the
> explosion tags (the normal one) I'm not even sure how they will work against the paths??
> if you mean his jutsu, then he can't use it because he can't use Edo here.
> 
> ...


Are you suggesting he can't utilize his hands, and the hands of his clones who are instantaneously transporting around the battlefield at random points to place a tag on bodies that are slower than him, have no idea he can teleport and have no idea of his power scale?



> he can't use it without edo + ST is enough as I said.


What the fuck are you talking about? He needs only to place the summoning exploding tag on their bodies to utilize the Jutsu. He does not need to suicide, it simply works easier if he uses slow ass bodies that aren't himself who are immortal.

He jumps, shunshins, tags a path, then jumps out and watches them explode indefinitely. 



> It does not matter really, he will know how it works after a while, it's not complected.


Nobody would ever understand how FTG works without inside information.


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## Ennoia (Sep 10, 2013)

Pretty sure Tobirama has no counter for the dog summon, his jumping will be useless once they split enough to guard each seal. Also I cannot see Tobirama tagging any of the paths here given their reaction feats/abilities and Asura has AoE attacks so even with knowledge I dont see him landing a blow. Going with Nagato here.


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## DaVizWiz (Sep 10, 2013)

Ennoia said:


> Pretty sure Tobirama has no counter for the dog summon, his jumping will be useless once they split enough to guard each seal. Also I cannot see Tobirama tagging any of the paths here given their reaction feats so even with knowledge I dont see him landing a blow. Going with Nagato here.


...he tagged Jubito without him noticing. Are you seriously suggesting paths that SM Naruto outright blitzed and fodderized will react to a jumping, high-shunshiner in Tobirama without knowledge on his powerscale or the fact that he can actually jump?

This dude could literally tag 6 of them before they even realize what's going on. Split enough to guard each seal? Why the fuck would they split without any clue that there are seals, where they are and that he can jump to them instantly? 

Why the fuck would a dog be summoned without knowledge? 

Do you use logic or do you simply match up arsenals?


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## Ennoia (Sep 10, 2013)

DaVizWiz said:


> ...he tagged Jubito without him noticing. Are you seriously suggesting paths that SM Naruto outright blitzed and fodderized will react to a jumping, high-shunshiner in Tobirama without knowledge on his powerscale or the fact that he can actually jump?


Im not going over the Tobirama tagging Obito argument again, Preta dodged SM Naruto's punch so I see no reason why he cant do the same to Tobirama or that his other paths that dodged FRS cant do the same.



> This dude could literally tag 6 of them before they even realize what's going on. Split enough to guard each seal? Why the fuck would they split without any clue that there are seals, where they are and that he can jump to them instantly?


Dat wank



> Why the fuck would a dog be summoned without knowledge?


Because Nagato summons without knowledge. He did it against Jiraiya and both times he fought Naruto. The moment he sees Tobirama use FTG he is going to use the dog because it essentially cancels FTG.



> Do you use logic or do you simply match up arsenals?


You have a habit of insulting when your own stuff makes no sense.


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## DaVizWiz (Sep 10, 2013)

> Im not going over the Tobirama tagging Obito argument again, Preta dodged SM Naruto's punch so I see no reason why he cant do the same to Tobirama or that his other paths that dodged FRS cant do the same.


I don't care what you're going over. He tagged a being astronomically faster than any of the paths listed without him even noticing. Do you understand? Jubito ran at them, Tobirama reacted by touching his body twice before being hit. He instantly is faster than anyone of those paths, do you understand? This is logic. 
*log?ic*
ˈl?jik/Submit
noun
1.
reasoning conducted or assessed according to strict principles of validity.
"experience is a better guide to this than deductive logic"
synonyms:	reasoning, line of reasoning, rationale, argument, argumentation More
a particular system or codification of the principles of proof and inference.
"Aristotelian logic"
the systematic use of symbolic and mathematical techniques to determine the forms of valid deductive argument.
plural noun: logics
the quality of being justifiable by reason.
"there's no logic in telling her not to hit people when that's what you're doing"
synonyms:	reason, judgment, logical thought, rationality, wisdom, sense, good sense, common sense, sanity; More
the course of action or line of reasoning suggested or made necessary by.
"if the logic of capital is allowed to determine events"
2.
a system or set of principles underlying the arrangements of elements in a computer or electronic device so as to perform a specified task.

Does SM Naruto use FTG? Is Preta Path faster than Jubito? Find the answers, evaluate them, and educate yourself. 



> Because Nagato summons without knowledge. He did it against Jiraiya and both times he fought Naruto. The moment he sees Tobirama use FTG he is going to use the dog because it essentially cancels FTG.


Are you suggesting Nagato had no knowledge on Jiraiya or his powerscale? The friend is a legendary Sanin and his previous teacher. 

He has no idea what FTG is. HOW THE FUCK IS HE GOING TO COUNTER SOMETHING HE DOESN'T UNDERSTAND? Do you resent logic? Is it something you intentionally avoid? 



> You have a habit of insulting when your own stuff makes no sense.


You've offered nothing logical. Everything that has come out of your mouth has been deduced as nonsense.


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## Ennoia (Sep 10, 2013)

DaVizWiz said:


> I don't care what you're going over. He tagged a being astronomically faster than any of the paths listed without him even noticing. Do you understand? Jubito ran at them, Tobirama reacted by touching his body twice before being hit. He instantly is faster than anyone of those paths, do you understand? This is logic.
> *log?ic*
> ˈl?jik/Submit
> noun
> ...


Didnt read it.



> Are you suggesting Nagato had no knowledge on Jiraiya or his powerscale? The friend is a legendary Sanin and his previous teacher.


Jiraiya taught him like 15 years ago and there is no indication he knew of SM. I like how you single out just the Jiraiya fight though and not the others. Point is, he uses summons every fight without knowledge, it is his basic strategy. Its no reason to say he wont use it.



> He has no idea what FTG is. HOW THE FUCK IS HE GOING TO COUNTER SOMETHING HE DOESN'T UNDERSTAND?


He does not need to know the mechanics of the jutsu to know that the best strategy to counter a teleporting opponent is to use superior numbers or nuking and considering he dosent have CST the only other possible option is Cerberus. He will see Tobirama use FTG and he will use Cerberus to counter it, its not that difficult to understand.

All you can do is insult man, you really need to see someone about that.


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## UchihaX28 (Sep 10, 2013)

on the ground with it right next to them to feet in the air

 on the ground with it right next to them to feet in the air

 Hehe, nice speed there. Totally didn't see that coming huh?

Juubtio is skilled in perceptual abilities as you can see, so the whole Preta Path dodging SM Naruto won't work here. Tobirama is many times faster than that. He even tagged Juubito and blitzed him.

on the ground with it right next to them to feet in the air

 Nice blitz and we know Juubtio is many times faster as well as his perceptual abilities being greater with his usage with natural energy and the Rinnegan.

 Yeah, Tobirama is going to blitz Pain.

underwater

 Here's how he'll counter Cerberus.


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## Ennoia (Sep 10, 2013)

Speed and reactions aint the same thing man, Tobirama isnt blitzing anyone. Tobirama was only capable of touching conscious Obito because he was distracted and he admits it "he was distracted". Tagging a mindless Obito while being Edo means nothing and I already went over that for a long time in another thread. Tobirama can react well, good, but thats not going to save him here. Edo is restricted so he cant put down Cerberus because he cant use that jutsu; thus Tobirama loses.


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## Luftwaffles (Sep 10, 2013)

Tobirama is on a tier higher than the Paths, but lower than Nagato overall.

Tobirama>Paths
Nagato>=Tobirama

But yeh, the Paths get blitzed.


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## Dr. Leonard Church (Sep 10, 2013)

I'm sorry, but how is this not a rapethread? Tobirama's been give literally everything he needs to insta-win: knowledge, tags, and the BL mindset. He literally warps to Deva, then Naraka, then whoever will give him the most trouble, before the Pains can properly react.

Unless I'm reading the OP wrong and he doesn't have tags nearby...


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## Itachі (Sep 10, 2013)

Sorry, I didn't specify. The Tags aren't close at all to the enemy but are at the border of the crater. And the crater is massive. I'd say 2-5.


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## joshhookway (Sep 10, 2013)

Tobirama summons two clones. Put explosive tags on them, get the fuck away with FTG and blows Pein to pieces.


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## DaVizWiz (Sep 11, 2013)

> Jiraiya taught him like 15 years ago and there is no indication he knew of SM. I like how you single out just the Jiraiya fight though and not the others. Point is, he uses summons every fight without knowledge, it is his basic strategy. Its no reason to say he wont use it.


You are ridiculous. Kisame never met Jiraiya and he was second guessing engaging him in battle with Itachi beside him. 

Nagato, the second hand leader of the Akatsuki, a previous student of Jiraiya, a man who gave orders to Orochimaru, a close friend and previous teammate of Jiraiya doesn't understand Jiraiya's powerscale- a legendary fucking Sanin? 



> He does not need to know the mechanics of the jutsu to know that the best strategy to counter a teleporting opponent is to use superior numbers or nuking and considering he dosent have CST the only other possible option is Cerberus. He will see Tobirama use FTG and he will use Cerberus to counter it, its not that difficult to understand.


Animal Path won't survive long enough to summon Cerberus. Did you ever factor that into your mind?

Cerberus is his best option against a speedy high reactor? Are you joking or simply out of your mind? Tobirama ports around it and kills the paths without any difficulty. Cerberus offers no more support than the paths can give themselves. 

He will see Tobirama appearing around the battlefield at ridiculous speeds and begin questioning whether or not he's in a Genjutsu. Two paths are killed. He'll then try to "spread them" to disallow any backside attacks, unfortunately this does nothing as bunshin feints and water snipes will quickly dissemble that failure of a strategy.

At no point in this battle will he begin to understand how Tobirama is warping around the battlefield. At no point in this battle will he understand how his paths are being annihilated by simple touches. 



> All you can do is insult man, you really need to see someone about that.


Don't think you're special, I use this tone against most debaters who fail to admit the fallacy in their arguments. You openly admitted not reading a part of my post. Are you expecting a fucking cookie? That type of behavior is the reason why your being trashed- you fail to listen to logic, then when it is boldly in front of your face- you refuse to read it. 

Your argument is grossly unintelligent and completely illogical. Stop posting in this thread.


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## Ennoia (Sep 11, 2013)

DaVizWiz said:


> You are ridiculous. Kisame never met Jiraiya and he was second guessing engaging him in battle with Itachi beside him.
> 
> Nagato, the second hand leader of the Akatsuki, a previous student of Jiraiya, a man who gave orders to Orochimaru, a close friend and previous teammate of Jiraiya doesn't understand Jiraiya's powerscale- a legendary fucking Sanin?


What does powerscale has to do with anything? Nagato started with summons thats all that matters. J-man even said that he thought Nagato was using only summons because he thought thats all he felt like he needed to use against Jiraiya despite knowing it was his teacher. If you're arguing that Nagato wont use summons im not seeing your point here.



> Animal Path won't survive long enough to summon Cerberus. Did you ever factor that into your mind?
> 
> Cerberus is his best option against a speedy high reactor? Are you joking or simply out of your mind? Tobirama ports around it and kills the paths without any difficulty. Cerberus offers no more support than the paths can give themselves.
> 
> He will see Tobirama appearing around the battlefield at ridiculous speeds and begin questioning whether or not he's in a Genjutsu. Two paths are killed. He'll then try to "spread them" to disallow any backside attacks, unfortunately this does nothing as bunshin feints and water snipes will quickly dissemble that failure of a strategy.


Your entire strategy is that he is going to be teleporting around taking out paths, how does teleporting allow him to take out paths? He has no feats to say he is blitzing the paths, Tobirama has no means to get to Animal Path, and clones mean nothing when each Pain body except Animal can keep up with and avoid his abilities/movements so he can simply have Human defend Animal as he did against Naruto. Cerberus pulls the win here because it will simply camp out by his FTG seals which you are saying Tobirama will abuse as Nagato will eventually see the seals. FTG keeps Tobirama alive it does not allow him to blitz.



> At no point in this battle will he begin to understand how Tobirama is warping around the battlefield. At no point in this battle will he understand how his paths are being annihilated by simple touches.


If he is abusing FTG like you say he is then its obvious that Nagato will eventually see the seal and he wont be able to touch the paths for you to be saying he will take them out with FTG.



> Don't think you're special, I use this tone against most debaters who fail to admit the fallacy in their arguments. You openly admitted not reading a part of my post. Are you expecting a fucking cookie? That type of behavior is the reason why your being trashed- you fail to listen to logic, then when it is boldly in front of your face- you refuse to read it.
> 
> Your argument is grossly unintelligent and completely illogical. Stop posting in this thread.


Didnt read it.


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## Thunder (Sep 11, 2013)

I think DaVizWiz and Dr. Leonard Church have it right.

Hiraishin alone grants Tobirama a substantial advantage over the paths. Keep in mind that it was Hiraishin which all but solidified Tobirama's top-tier placement in the minds of many users here, so don't underestimate the impact it will have on this fight. Imagine if Jiraiya and Naruto were capable of instantly appearing and "disappearing" when _they_ fought Pein Rikudō. The skill-sets and situations are much different of course, but you get the point. 

Also, Tobirama's got _full_ knowledge here. That means no surprises. Even Naruto didn't possesses that level of insight when he fought Pein Rikudō. This knowledge is going to be very dangerous in the hands of a highly intelligent and calculating individual.

Then there's the fact that Tobirama already has seals placed around the battlefield. If he ever finds himself in an unfavorable position, warping to safety is always an option even if Tobirama is caught by something like Banshō Ten'in. Kakashi could still move his arms while he was being pulled, and Hiraishin doesn't require any hand-seals to activate.

And to add insult to injury, Pein Rikudō is pretty handicapped. His most powerful jutsu is restricted, he doesn't know anything about Tobirama at all, and Shinra Tensei's cooldown time is now 7 seconds instead of 5. Seven seconds is going to feel like an eternity to Tobirama.

Animal path's summons pose no threat. The only one worth mentioning is the Cerebus, but he's taken out pretty easily by Gojō Kibaku Fuda assuming a Kage Bunshin can be substituted for an Edo Tensei body (I don't think it's possible myself), or by defeating Animal path outright. The others are eliminated by Suiton: Suidanha and forgotten about. After all, Fukasaku did   to the Chameleon.

In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if an inventive character like Tobirama has some sealing jutsu or something to counter the Cerebus with anyway. If you're one who would ignore logic in favor of focusing on showings alone this idea would seem silly to entertain. But, before you laugh, ask yourself: if Kishimoto wrote this fight would he have one of his strongest, most intelligent characters lose to . . . a dog summon? I doubt it. 

So, ridiculous as it may sound, "Tobirama warps around the battlefield and assassinates the paths one by one" is essentially what's going happen. In my opinion Nagato verses Tobirama would've been more debatable.


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## Turrin (Sep 11, 2013)

Pain Rikudo can't hit Tobirama due to the fact that Tobirama starts with seals already scattered around the battlefield and has full knowledge. On the other hand Tobirama can send in Kamikaze Bushin to deploy Tandem Explosive Tags, which are the perfect weapon to use against Pain; their explosion is too big for ST to blow away and the explosion itself is not filled with chakra so HG Realm can't absorb it. Tobirama can also use Clones as warp points and now with his Suiton he doesn't even need to get right next to the enemy he can just teleport close to them with his Suiton already going and slice them in half. The only potential danger here would be CST, however with full knowledge and the ability to sense when Deva Path is gathering tons of chakra for a big attack, I believe he could use his high speed to interrupt Deva's attempt or get a KB in there to warp Deva away. 

I honestly think Tobirama vs Pain w/o these advantages would be a close fight. Though with Edo Tensei restricted I'd probably favor Pain w/ high difficulty at least based on current feats. However with these advantages It's smooth sailing for Tobirama here.


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## batman22wins (Sep 11, 2013)

How could pain blow him away? He would just use ftg and come back when his jutsu passes. Then blitz the shit out of them with clones who has endless tags.


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## Ennoia (Sep 11, 2013)

Tandem Explosive Tags was specifically said to be used with ET summons as a source, why do you peeps say clones can be substituted?


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## 2Broken (Sep 11, 2013)

If Tobirama is shown to be stronger then he is now then I could see him winning this, but as of now he loses imo. The main argument I see for Tobirama winning is that Hiraishin lets him dodge indefinitely. I would agree with this if he was just trying to escape, but in an actual fight it would be a problem.

First and foremost is Pain's shared vision. Even with Hiraishin he has to get close to the Paths first to place tags on/near them. I don't think Tobirama is fast enough to blitz them with shunshin, so his initial attack alone is going to be tough since with all those eyes they surely see him approaching.

Second defensively he has to get past Preta Path's absorbtion, Deva Path's Shinra Tensei and Animal Path sacrificing summons to do long range damage. He can go CQC, (which i'm sure he is good at despite not having a ton of feats in that area) but the Pain bodies individually can take down entire squads of shinobi with taijutsu alone and can CQC with Sage mode users.

Thirdly he can't fight long before Pain figures out hiraishin and when that happens I can't see him winning. Pain has a lot of ways to drag the fight out until he can set Tobirama up (flight, camouflage, reverse summoning, reviving, etc.) and one solid hit is all Pain needs to end it.

So in my opinion Pain takes it.


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## Veracity (Sep 11, 2013)

Tobirama takes this quite handly with these restrictions. His reactions far trump that of Pain. And he has the speed to exploit the 7 second interval. And his Suiton tech should cut through Most pains like butter.

I find Tobirama to be superior to Pain Arc SM Naruto.


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## Turrin (Sep 11, 2013)

Ennoia said:


> Tandem Explosive Tags was specifically said to be used with ET summons as a source, why do you peeps say clones can be substituted?


No actually what was said is that Tobirama invented a tactic where Edo Tensei use Tandem Explosive tags to blow up in the enemies face. Never was it said that Tandem Explosive Tags can't be used in other ways and in-fact we know that they can be used with clones or even through remote detonation, based on their mechanics.


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## Ennoia (Sep 11, 2013)

Turrin said:


> No actually what was said is that Tobirama invented a tactic where Edo Tensei use Tandem Explosive tags to blow up in the enemies face. Never was it said that Tandem Explosive Tags can't be used in other ways and in-fact we know that they can be used with clones or even through remote detonation, based on their mechanics.



Thats actually not what is said, he quite literally said "I created Edo Tensi and *fighting techniques for it*..." He does not say he incorporated jutsu into Edo, he says he created the jutsu to use with Edo, there is no indication that the jutsu can be used without Edo unless you have some kind of proof.


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## DaVizWiz (Sep 11, 2013)

Ennoia said:


> Thats actually not what is said, he quite literally said "I created Edo Tensi and *fighting techniques for it*..." He does not say he incorporated jutsu into Edo, he says he created the jutsu to use with Edo, there is no indication that the jutsu can be used without Edo unless you have some kind of proof.


It's a special exploding tag, that when placed on something, after it explodes- it summons more tags that summon larger tags that summon even larger tags which all explode. 

At no point does this suggest it needs to be utilized by an immortal zombie. The only point of the immortal zombie is the fact that it can't actually be stopped from putting a tag on people since it's fucking immortal zombie who is oblivious to pain, normal injury, and can remain in the blast radius after detonation and recover. In other words, while you're stabbing-punching-striking-kicking-spitting elemental techniques into me, I'll manage to put this tag on your body no matter what, you'll blow up, and as a zombie I will recover to do the technique again to another ninja.

Do you understand? He, himself, and his clones, can put these tags on other things, and shunshin/warp away before they explode. He doesn't need the remote control invulnerable bodies to place them- he's fast enough to do it himself without receiving any injury- so he doesn't need the things that are invulnerable to injury.


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## Turrin (Sep 11, 2013)

Ennoia said:


> Thats actually not what is said, he quite literally said "I created Edo Tensi and *fighting techniques for it*..." He does not say he incorporated jutsu into Edo, he says he created the jutsu to use with Edo,


Yes he created Edo Tensei and ancillary Jutsu that pair well with it. However never once does Tobirama state that Tandem Explosive Tags can only be used with Edo Tensei. He is merely speaking towards the best way to employ the Tags.



> there is no indication that the jutsu can be used without Edo unless you have some kind of proof.


We know the mechanics. The Tags are released and than triggered by Tobirama making a hand-seal. Since the effect is triggered by that hand-seals there is no reason why Tobirama couldn't attach a Tag to any surface and than once he's a safe distance away detonate it, w/o needing Edo Tensei.

The Jutsu is just more easily triggered with Edo Tensei, because the Edo Tensei don't have to spend the time getting a safe distance away before detonating the tags, due to their Edo Regen. Additionally they are more durable than KB so they can even get hit by the enemy and still employ the Tags, in the same way Tobirama was hit by Obito and still could employ the tags, while if that was a KB it would have poofed.


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## Ennoia (Sep 11, 2013)

DaVizWiz said:


> Please, stop talking.
> 
> It's a special exploding tag, that when placed on something, after it explodes- it summons more tags that summon larger tags that summon even larger tags which all explode.


Prove he placed an explosive tag on himself and didnt use a seal on himself that set off the paper as he was an Edo body and the paper came from his body. Prove the tag (if in fact he did use one) does not work specifically on Edo bodies aside from the fact that he specifically says he created it for Edo. You cant do these things; the rest of your post from what I see is opinion and does not need to be read.



Turrin said:


> Yes he created Edo Tensei and ancillary Jutsu that pair well with it. However never once does Tobirama state that Tandem Explosive Tags can only be used with Edo Tensei. He is merely speaking towards the best way to employ the Tags.
> 
> 
> We know the mechanics. The Tags are released and than triggered by Tobirama making a hand-seal. Since the effect is triggered by that hand-seals there is no reason why Tobirama couldn't attach a Tag to any surface and than once he's a safe distance away detonate it, w/o needing Edo Tensei.
> ...


Pretty much the same thing, Tobirama specifically says he made the jutsu for Edo not that he took a jutsu and incorporated it into Edo. As far as I can see he placed a seal on his chest and paper came out, there is no indication that that seal would work on anything but Edo as he says it was made for Edo. No you say he used a tag on himself, prove that tag will work on anything that is not an Edo body when Edo bodies have paper like qualities and he specifically says that the jutsu was made for Edo. You say we know the mechanics but it is not that simple here, he made the jutsu with the properties of an Edo body in mind, there is no reason to think it would work on a rock for example. Hell he could have just used it on Obito if it was that simple. Even if we just go with the clone argument, how can a clone sustain the jutsu when they would disperse upon having the paper come out of them (not that they have paper like qualities anyway to be creating tags).


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## joshhookway (Sep 11, 2013)

Ennoia said:


> Tandem Explosive Tags was specifically said to be used with ET summons as a source, why do you peeps say clones can be substituted?



If you read the lastest chapters, Tobirama used explosives with his own body.


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## Coppur (Sep 11, 2013)

Due to the conditions of the battle, I'd give it to Tobirama, however overall Pain is considerably stronger.


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## PopoTime (Sep 12, 2013)

Animal Path summons Rinne-Bird and flies her and The reviving Path (forgot his name) Into the sky.

She then summons Cerberus whilst the other Paths fight Tobirama.

Infinite explosions is countered by reverse summoning the Path to the bird, and any downed paths will be revived.

Plus Tobirama has no way of hitting the bird


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## Luftwaffles (Sep 12, 2013)

PopoTime said:


> Animal Path summons Rinne-Bird and flies her and The reviving Path (forgot his name) Into the sky.
> 
> She then summons Cerberus whilst the other Paths fight Tobirama.
> 
> ...


This is based on a battle simulation that we haven't seen Pein impliment. The formation they use would be their undoing because with full knowledge, Tobirama wipes them off the face of the earth.


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## Ghost (Sep 12, 2013)

With these conditions Tobirama wins easily.


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