# EMS Sasuke vs Pain



## adeshina365 (Sep 8, 2013)

Location: SM Naruto vs Pain
Distance: 50 meters
Knowledge: Sasuke has full knowledge on Pain, Pain has no knowledge on Sasuke.

Scenario: Same scenario that SM Naruto went up against, with Deva path not having access to its abilities initially.


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## TheGreen1 (Sep 8, 2013)

I'd give this to Sasuke, if he has a way around Preta Path. So far though, I don't see how, since he can absorb all ninjutsu. THOUGH, if the others are dead, then Preta don't mean shit. And Sasuke then has to find the real Nagato and kill him.

I'll be fair, and give this to Sasuke given the circumstances and that he has full knowledge.


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## TheGreen1 (Sep 8, 2013)

saikyou said:


> Sasuke no diff.



Now now, there's going to be difficulty. He has to take on multiple opponents who are all linked together. Plus, that Dog Summon is going to be a pain in the ass, considering it's basically a doggy  Hydra, cut one head off, two more grow back.


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## UchihaX28 (Sep 8, 2013)

^ Amaterasu.

 Anyways, Sasuke easily.

 ST is not going to do much against Sasuke's V4 Susanoo and he can Amaterasu multiple enemies and even create an Amaterasu barrier for a short time (before Preta Path absorbs it) before he gets a good hit with a Susanoo arrow (which at this point, not even SM Kabuto dodged it properly). Even if Pain uses his Shinra Tensei used on the village, that just leaves Deva Path useless which simply isn't an option. 

 Not only that, he's quicker than SM Naruto, so he can likely get a Chidori on Deva Path at close distance or any Pains (minus Preta Path).


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## UchihaX28 (Sep 8, 2013)

^ Forgot about Aoda.

 But yeah, Preta Path being the last pain doesn't matter. Attacking him from behind will work since the other Rinnegans are gone.


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## UchihaX28 (Sep 8, 2013)

^ Agreed. The only one who can counter it is Preta Path, but considering Sasuke will be able to use it multiple times, it really doesn't matter.

 Not only that, Amaterasu sword comes to mind and we all know Susanoo itself is incredibly quick.


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## Krippy (Sep 8, 2013)

MS Sasuke would clear this with Mid diff.

Current Sasuke rolfblitzes.


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## Gunstarvillain (Sep 8, 2013)

So is it agreed that toon deva needs come of the bench am I rite? But seriously sauce does it faster and looks like a boss than sage naruto did. Amaspam the paths in susono. I'm more inclined to say sasuke can make the pain paths work against each other the level of his battle smarts. Isn't sasuke fast as if not faster than deva?


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## UchihaX28 (Sep 8, 2013)

EMS Sasuke has already shown feats of being much faster than SM Naruto.

 Tbh, MS Sasuke is probably as fast as SM Naruto considering he beat V1 in CQC (until he got thrown) and KCM Naruto struggled a little with Raikage.

 Glad people aren't stuck in the age where EMS Sasuke would struggle with Pain.


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## TheGreen1 (Sep 9, 2013)

NarutoX28 said:


> EMS Sasuke has already shown feats of being much faster than SM Naruto.
> 
> Tbh, MS Sasuke is probably as fast as SM Naruto considering he beat V1 in CQC (until he got thrown) and KCM Naruto struggled a little with Raikage.
> 
> Glad people aren't stuck in the age where EMS Sasuke would struggle with Pain.



He Beat V1 Raikage due to his Susano'o and Amaterasu, not due to speed. No, Sasuke got his ass stomped by the Raikage when it came to speed. 

Also that wasn't Naruto fighting the 3rd Raikage, that was a clone. That speaks VOLUMES of Naruto's skill when a clone defeats a Edo Kage in one-on-one combat. Also, Naruto there was in SM and dodged at the last second, and beat him.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Sep 9, 2013)

NarutoX28 said:


> EMS Sasuke has already shown feats of being much faster than SM Naruto.


Not even close. SM Naruto was able to defeat the Third Raikage in a speed clash and blitz a rocket powered Asura Path from several kilometers away starting point.


> Tbh, MS Sasuke is probably as fast as SM Naruto considering he beat V1 in CQC (until he got thrown) and KCM Naruto struggled a little with Raikage.


MS Sasuke is still slower than SM Naruto. He didn't 'beat' A at all, A made no attempt to dodge and was counting on his Raiton no Yoroi to tank the Chidori: which it did. Sasuke lost the clash and was forced to use Susano'o to survive the Liger Bombu.


> Glad people aren't stuck in the age where EMS Sasuke would struggle with Pain.


Chibaku Tensei. EMS Sasuke is crushed. Giant Shinra Tensei. EMS Sasuke is flattened. Preta Path makes all of Sasuke's ninjutsu useless as does Shinra Tensei. He's still vulnerable to Bansho Ten'in and if he goes taijutsu against Asura or Deva, he gets manhandled. 

Until Sasuke gets Perfect Susano'o, he can't defeat Pain with his current feats.


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## Trojan (Sep 9, 2013)

lol Amaterasu is useless against ALL of the paths!
people forget that those black rods can actually defeat the Amaterasu? 
*tossing them into the clouds.*


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## Legendary Itachi (Sep 9, 2013)

Amaterasu arrows, not Amaterasu instantly burns on your body. They can't throw chakra rods to deflect that.

EMS Sasuke > SM Naruto, and Sasuke just takes out weakened Deva and Naraka first with full intel, then clears other paths with Enton. At most he wins with mid-difficulty.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Sep 9, 2013)

Legendary Itachi said:


> Amaterasu arrows, not Amaterasu instantly burns on your body. They can't throw chakra rods to deflect that.
> 
> EMS Sasuke > SM Naruto, and Sasuke just takes out weakened Deva and Naraka first with full intel, then clears other paths with Enton. At most he wins with mid-difficulty.


Sasuke will waste his Enton on Preta and Deva who absorb/deflect it. And no...Sage Mode Naruto has better feats than even EMS Sasuke now: defeating Yang Kurama, defeating the weakened Pain, defeating the Edo Third Raikage, damaging Juubito.

EMS Sasuke really needs better feats.


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## Legendary Itachi (Sep 9, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Sasuke will waste his Enton on Preta and Deva who absorb/deflect it. And no...Sage Mode Naruto has better feats than even EMS Sasuke now: defeating Yang Kurama, defeating the weakened Pain, defeating the Edo Third Raikage, damaging Juubito.
> 
> EMS Sasuke really needs better feats.



With full intel, Sasuke won't waste Enton on Preta, and weakened Deva can't ST Enton before recovered. Given that Sasuke knows Deva has the most dangerous arsenal to finish him, he will take Deva down first.

Sure it's another story if this is full-powered Pain......

I agree SM Naruto has better feats, but considering what EMS gives Sasuke - Enton manipulation and stronger MS techs without stamina drain, EMS Sasuke at least = Current SM Naruto, that say he is stronger than Pain arc SM Naruto showing inexperienced SM.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Sep 9, 2013)

Legendary Itachi said:


> With full intel, Sasuke won't waste Enton on Preta, and weakened Deva can't ST Enton before recovered. Given that Sasuke knows Deva has the most dangerous arsenal to finish him, he will take Deva down first.


Preta will force him to waste Enton on him. Pain, through Nagato can sense the activation of Amaterasu and by extension Enton and defeat him. And Enton is a lot slower than Amaterasu too, it can be avoided. 


> Sure it's another story if this is full-powered Pain......


Still, the level of Pain that EMS Sasuke is facing is hard with Preta Path on the field and Nagato's sensing. As soon as Deva gets his power back, he wins.


> I agree SM Naruto has better feats, but considering what EMS gives Sasuke - Enton manipulation and stronger MS techs without stamina drain, EMS Sasuke at least = Current SM Naruto, that say he is stronger than Pain arc SM Naruto showing inexperienced SM.


Alright, fair enough. Though I believe to defeat a full power Pain, EMS Sasuke would need Perfect Susano'o, agree?


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## Bonly (Sep 9, 2013)

Full knowledge has me favoring Sasuke more times then not. Sasuke only problem would be Deva path and Preta path but with Deva path not having access to his powers right away Sasuke could likely take him out before the early since he can easily take out all the other paths bar Preta path which wouldn't be that hard for him to take out.


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## Legendary Itachi (Sep 9, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Preta will force him to waste Enton on him. Pain, through Nagato can sense the activation of Amaterasu and by extension Enton and defeat him. And Enton is a lot slower than Amaterasu too, it can be avoided.
> 
> Still, the level of Pain that EMS Sasuke is facing is hard with Preta Path on the field and Nagato's sensing. As soon as Deva gets his power back, he wins.
> 
> Alright, fair enough. Though I believe to defeat a full power Pain, EMS Sasuke would need Perfect Susano'o, agree?



Sasuke's attack are all pretty fast, it will be difficult for Preta to absorb all at once to protect other paths without Deva when Sasuke spams them. Not sure if Pain can sense as Nagato though. 

Yeah, Sasuke loses if Deva recovers...... and I agree he needs PS to win this.


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## Deleted member 211714 (Sep 9, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Until Sasuke gets Perfect Susano'o, he can't defeat Pain with his current feats.



Unlike Pein, Sasuke is given full knowledge on his opponents. 

Gakidou/Tendou are the only Paths that are surviving a barrage of Susano'o projectiles (covered in Amaterasu), and Sasuke can *easily* mow through them afterward.

Aoda or Kirin > Gakidou
Susano'o projectiles > ST interval


They don't stand a chance.


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## Paine? (Sep 9, 2013)

6 god tier lvl nin Vs Sasuke???

Deva Pein pushes sasuke to the ground with his gravity abilities and he gets stabbed with chakra rods.


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## Joakim3 (Sep 9, 2013)

EMS Sasuke utterly child stomps if Tendo starts on cool down


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## Stermor (Sep 9, 2013)

what kind fight would it be against pain.. full knowlegde helps against pain.. but knowlegde helps pain alot more then sasuke.. 

pain with knowlegde just says shinra tensei the one large enough to blow boss summons away.. susanoo will be blown away aswell.. regardless of damage.. it will create distance.. 
'so then pain just uses the time to use chibaku tensei.. while sasuke is still recovering/returning.. 

anyway sasuke cannot beat pain unless pain makes a mistake or is asleep...



King Itachi said:


> Unlike Pein, Sasuke is given full knowledge on his opponents.
> 
> Gakidou/Tendou are the only Paths that are surviving a barrage of Susano'o projectiles (covered in Amaterasu), and Sasuke can *easily* mow through them afterward.
> 
> ...



uhm why would they get hit?? don't you think preta can just stand infront of them ? or pain just uses a shinra tensei and fucks the hole attack.. or a large summon block line of sight.. 

lol pain is not falling to amaterasu... 

then there is the fact sasuke is still slower then pain..


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## Gunstarvillain (Sep 9, 2013)

I actually gave this thought if sasuke wins he will have to start in v4 sussuno. Now call me crazy but that limits his movement leaving himself open the the death beam arm being spamed while his summons are attacking and then drain him. Or is this deva and not nagato


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## adeshina365 (Sep 9, 2013)

A lot of you aren't even reading the OP...


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## Bonly (Sep 9, 2013)

Stermor said:


> what kind fight would it be against pain.. full knowlegde helps against pain.. but knowlegde helps pain alot more then sasuke..



Pain has no knowledge here so that doesn't really help, unless you mean no knowledge on Sasuke helps pain alot more then Sasuke having knowledge on pain.



> pain with knowlegde just says shinra tensei the one large enough to blow boss summons away.. susanoo will be blown away aswell.. regardless of damage.. it will create distance..
> 'so then pain just uses the time to use chibaku tensei.. while sasuke is still recovering/returning..
> 
> anyway sasuke cannot beat pain unless pain makes a mistake or is asleep....



Deva path can't use his powers right away just like his fight with Naruto as well as has no knowledge.


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## Ennoia (Sep 9, 2013)

I honestly think that the paths have the ability to avoid everything Sasuke can throw at them from Amaterasu to arrows because they can see chakra. The only problem would be the first Amaterasu that is fired off because Nagato would not know what is coming at him but at the same time B reacted to Amaterasu in full Bijuu so Preta might be able to absorb it. Everything Sasuke has pertains to chakra so he gets brutalized IMO.


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## UchihaX28 (Sep 9, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Not even close. SM Naruto was able to defeat the Third Raikage in a speed clash and blitz a rocket powered Asura Path from several kilometers away starting point.
> 
> MS Sasuke is still slower than SM Naruto. He didn't 'beat' A at all, A made no attempt to dodge and was counting on his Raiton no Yoroi to tank the Chidori: which it did. Sasuke lost the clash and was forced to use Susano'o to survive the Liger Bombu.
> 
> ...



 I should've worded that differently. I meant he won the speed clash and could react to V1 Raikage. Sasuke was so focused on piercing through the Lighting Armor leaving him vulnerable to being grabbed and allowed him to get a Liger Bombu. Sasuke also allowed himself to get hit during Susanoo for obvious reasons to burn Raikage and test out his Susanoo.

But yes, looking back, MS Sasuke isn't as fast as SM Naruto, so apologies for that post.

 Just letting people know, I was referring to SM Naruto (Pein Arc) which I concede is faster than MS Sasuke. An SM Naruto clone (Pain Arc) can't beat the 3rd Raikage and there's no telling if the clones weren't nearly equal to the original. Naruto puts equal amounts of chakra in all his clones. That's practically implied ever since Part 1.


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## SSMG (Sep 9, 2013)

Sasuke would kill all the paths like he killed all those zetsu clones at the beginning of the war. he has his orb spit out six entons =dead pain.


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## UchihaX28 (Sep 10, 2013)

Ennoia said:


> I honestly think that the paths have the ability to avoid everything Sasuke can throw at them from Amaterasu to arrows because they can see chakra. The only problem would be the first Amaterasu that is fired off because Nagato would not know what is coming at him but at the same time B reacted to Amaterasu in full Bijuu so Preta might be able to absorb it. Everything Sasuke has pertains to chakra so he gets brutalized IMO.



 .....

 Unless SM Kabuto isn't drastically faster than Deva Pain, I don't think that's the case. Kabuto didn't even completely dodge Susanoo arrow without the liquefying technique. Not only that, Susanoo arrow is equal in speed to BM Naruto's Rasenshuriken. No doubt it will hit any of the paths except for Preta Path.


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## DeK3iDE (Sep 10, 2013)

it doesn't matter much if Sasuke has knowledge. He seemingly has no way to permanently take out Preta Path, he'll be busy dodging Asura Path, and then there's overcoming or even combating Animal Path's summonings. Even if Sasuke wins, it will be anything but easy. I think there's too much for Sasuke to overcome here w/o having the proper means of permanently disposing of those Paths. This is going to be an eventual curbstomp in Sasuke's future.


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## Ennoia (Sep 10, 2013)

NarutoX28 said:


> .....
> 
> Unless SM Kabuto isn't drastically faster than Deva Pain, I don't think that's the case. Kabuto didn't even completely dodge Susanoo arrow without the liquefying technique. Not only that, Susanoo arrow is equal in speed to BM Naruto's Rasenshuriken. No doubt it will hit any of the paths except for Preta Path.


Kabuto casually dodged a point blank arrow while inside of his snake, I think all of the paths except Animal can dodge it considering they can all dodge FRS casually except Animal. This is much worse for Sasuke because most of his abilities are made for single opponent fights. He will have a hard time trying to land a single blow to think about all of the abilities being thrown at him even with knowledge. When Deva gets his abilities back its really GG.


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## UchihaX28 (Sep 10, 2013)

^ I need to reread that then.

 Even then, Pain hasn't been shown to dodge a Point blank Rasenshuriken which at this point is definitely slower than Sasuke's arrow at SM Kabuto.

 His abilities aren't made for just one opponent. He can create Amaterasu barriers, Amaterasu arcs with a sword allowing Amaterasu to travel faster against many foes, can use Multiple Amaterasus which is perfect for multiple summons, can use Amaterasu Susanoo barrier for melee opponents (which Asura Path is partially melee as well as the summons), Can manipulate the flames with Susanoo right in front of enemies which will burn enemies attacking from the front, and Aoda for blitzing past enemies while in Susanoo.

 They also didn't casually dodge FRS.

*absorbed too much SAGE CHAKRA*

 It's not even expanded and they're only a few inches away from it.


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## Ennoia (Sep 10, 2013)

NarutoX28 said:


> ^ I need to reread that then.


He did it here.



> Even then, Pain hasn't been shown to dodge a Point blank Rasenshuriken which at this point is definitely slower than Sasuke's arrow at SM Kabuto.


Deva has already done that.



> His abilities aren't made for just one opponent. He can create Amaterasu barriers, Amaterasu arcs with a sword allowing Amaterasu to travel faster against many foes, can use Multiple Amaterasus which is perfect for multiple summons, can use Amaterasu Susanoo barrier for melee opponents (which Asura Path is partially melee as well as the summons), Can manipulate the flames with Susanoo right in front of enemies which will burn enemies attacking from the front, and Aoda for blitzing past enemies while in Susanoo.


Preta can absorb jutsu within a large area so regardless of the kind of Amaterasu he uses it will be useless. He will have to use Amaterasu to put down summons which will take a toll on his stamina and the paths can see chakra so they can see it coming after the initial use and have the speed to dodge. Sasuke will have a hard enough time with Preta alone because again his abilities are all chakra based. Everything Sasuke has is countered after the first Amaterasu.



> They also didn't casually dodge FRS.
> 
> within a large area
> 
> It's not even expanded and they're only a few inches away from it.


Look at the next page, they went from on the ground with it right next to them to feet in the air in the time it took for the FRS to expand. The speed of FRS itself is as fast as the arrow, thats what matters anyway, and all but Animal casually dodged FRS.


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## UchihaX28 (Sep 10, 2013)

^ Amaterasu doesn't take a toll on EMS Sasuke's chakra considering he casually used multiple Amaterasu's on Zetsu clones.

 As for Deva Path, that RasenShuriken never really expanded and it wasn't comparable to Kabuto. Kabuto was heading to his opponent and casually dodged the arrow. Deva Path didn't casually dodge it. Unless you think SM Naruto's Rasenshuriken is as fast as BM Naruto's Rasenshuriken which logically would include BM Naruto's throwing speed and power, that's not the case. Sasuke's Susanoo arrow actually equated to BM Naruto's Rasenshuriken, the same arrow that Kabuto casually dodged while Deva Path barely dodged an FRS. He was very cautious about dodging it.

 on the ground with it right next to them to feet in the air

 He was this close when the FRS reached impact. He barely dodged it. Kabuto casually side stepped Sasuke's Arrow which is as fast as BM Naruto's Rasenshuriken at this point of the manga.

 With Sasuke's Amaterasu sword, he's taking down the summons like he did against the Juubi. Pain's style is also not using multiple techniques at once, but only really one technique at once, so Preta Path isn't going to really counter Amaterasu that easily. 

 Tell me, what is Preta Path going to do all alone against Aoda and Sasuke?


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## Ennoia (Sep 10, 2013)

NarutoX28 said:


> ^ Amaterasu doesn't take a toll on EMS Sasuke's chakra considering he casually used multiple Amaterasu's on Zetsu clones.


True, ill give you that.



> As for Deva Path, that RasenShuriken never really expanded


You keep saying that but it makes no difference on the overall argument as the speed of FRS is in question not its expansion. FRS is as fast as the arrow, expansion has nothing to do with the argument.



> and it wasn't comparable to Kabuto. Kabuto was heading to his opponent and casually dodged the arrow.


Kabuto was standing still and you can see him pulling his arm out when the arrow was fired, he was not moving.



> Deva Path didn't casually dodge it.


He did it with no effort, thats casual, he later did it again when the jutsu was almost touching his clothing.



> Unless you think SM Naruto's Rasenshuriken is as fast as BM Naruto's Rasenshuriken which logically would include BM Naruto's throwing speed and power, that's not the case.


Im inclined to believe that SM Naruto is physically stronger than BM Naruto because I dont remember seeing anything to the contrary. At best I would say they are of the same strength. However I believe that all FRS (of the same size) have equal speed because of their various make-ups. Not to mention Naruto threw a large FRS which would mean that it is heavier and this slower than a smaller FRS as your argument goes. So SM FRS still might be faster than Sasuke's arrow?



> He was this close when the FRS reached impact. He barely dodged it. Kabuto casually side stepped Sasuke's Arrow


And Nagato can do the same as the jutsu has no AoE, it requires only a side step.



> With Sasuke's Amaterasu sword, he's taking down the summons like he did against the Juubi. Pain's style is also not using multiple techniques at once, but only really one technique at once, so Preta Path isn't going to really counter Amaterasu that easily.


Perhaps he could take down the summons easier than I first thought, but I still cant see how any of his abilities would have any effect on the paths themselves.



> Tell me, what is Preta Path going to do all alone against Aoda and Sasuke?


If you take away Aoda Preta can solo Sasuke. Aoda is essentially taken away because Animal can summon a rhino ontop of him considering Animal path can summon his animals infront of himself without touching the ground as he did against Jiraiya (he did it without moving).


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## UchihaX28 (Sep 10, 2013)

Ennoia said:


> True, ill give you that.



 Thanks man.




> You keep saying that but it makes no difference on the overall argument as the speed of FRS is in question not its expansion. FRS is as fast as the arrow, expansion has nothing to do with the argument.



 A bigger Rasenshuriken would likely make it harder to dodge. Not only that, Pain was only a few inches away from Rasenshuriken before it expanded and after it expanded, so he didn't just casually dodge it. 




> Kabuto was standing still and you can see him pulling his arm out when the arrow was fired, he was not moving.



 The only time we see him at a stand still is after the arrow is shot. We don't know if he was moving towards him, but from what we see in the past scans of him hiding and him coming out of hiding, I believe he was heading towards Sasuke, but even then, he's a bigger target than Deva Pain.




> He did it with no effort, thats casual, he later did it again when the jutsu was almost touching his clothing.



 But he was only a few inches away from the jutsu. I'm not saying he dodged it casually nor did it take a lot of effort, but he certainly did have some difficulty dodging it considering he was looking at the RasenShuriken the whole time.




> Im inclined to believe that SM Naruto is physically stronger than BM Naruto because I dont remember seeing anything to the contrary. At best I would say they are of the same strength. However I believe that all FRS (of the same size) have equal speed because of their various make-ups. Not to mention Naruto threw a large FRS which would mean that it is heavier and this slower than a smaller FRS as your argument goes. So SM FRS still might be faster than Sasuke's arrow?



 SM Naruto (Pain Arc) is not stronger than BM Naruto. Not even close. KCM Naruto couldn't even hold a boulder without breaking it until he mastered control. After that, he effortless holds a dozen boulders with one arm.

 on the ground with it right next to them to feet in the air

 Can SM Naruto (Pain Arc) do this?



> And Nagato can do the same as the jutsu has no AoE, it requires only a side step.



 Except Nagato's slower and doesn't have the perceptual abilities like SM does unless he has Gedo Mazo opened up. Even then, Nagato's on a completely, completely different tier than Pain is.



> Perhaps he could take down the summons easier than I first thought, but I still cant see how any of his abilities would have any effect on the paths themselves.



 Amaterasu won't affect the Pains? Aoda won't be effective at blitzing and Preta Path won't be prone to Kirin to CQC considering how high Sasuke's stats have improved?




> If you take away Aoda Preta can solo Sasuke. Aoda is essentially taken away because Animal can summon a rhino ontop of him considering Animal path can summon his animals infront of himself without touching the ground as he did against Jiraiya (he did it without moving).



 Animal Path will be instantly annihilated by Susanoo Arrow or just by regular CQC.


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## Ennoia (Sep 10, 2013)

NarutoX28 said:


> A bigger Rasenshuriken would likely make it harder to dodge. Not only that, Pain was only a few inches away from Rasenshuriken before it expanded and after it expanded, so he didn't just casually dodge it.
> 
> The only time we see him at a stand still is after the arrow is shot. We don't know if he was moving towards him, but from what we see in the past scans of him hiding and him coming out of hiding, I believe he was heading towards Sasuke, but even then, he's a bigger target than Deva Pain.
> 
> But he was only a few inches away from the jutsu. I'm not saying he dodged it casually nor did it take a lot of effort, but he certainly did have some difficulty dodging it considering he was looking at the RasenShuriken the whole time.


Ok so look the overall point here without the strawmen is that FRS movement speed (not expansion) > Sasuke's arrow speed. So if Nagato can dodge FRS coming at him (not expanding even though he did) then why do you say that he cannot dodge the arrow which is equal to or slower than FRS. I say equal to or slower than because a bossed size FRS was the same speed as the arrow so a smaller one would (by your own admission) be faster.



> SM Naruto (Pain Arc) is not stronger than BM Naruto. Not even close. KCM Naruto couldn't even hold a boulder without breaking it until he mastered control. After that, he effortless holds a dozen boulders with one arm.
> 
> on the ground with it right next to them to feet in the air
> 
> Can SM Naruto (Pain Arc) do this?


Naruto was crushing the boulders because he could not properly control the chakra arms which is what the training was helping him do, it was foreign to him. What your link shows is more of a speed feat than strength as he merely had to deflect the Bijuu Bombs; IMO that still does not compare to tossing a boss summon or Pa lifting that statue with one hand but for the sake of it I would assume that BM Naruto is equal to SM Naruto's strength making their small FRS relatively the same speed thus the large FRS slower. Overall point here is FRS > arrow in speed because Naruto's strength is equal in both forms (although I think all FRS are the same speed regardless but I will use your opinion here that it varies because of strength).



> Amaterasu won't affect the Pains? Aoda won't be effective at blitzing and Preta Path won't be prone to Kirin to CQC considering how high Sasuke's stats have improved?


Amaterasu wont be effective because they can dodge it or it can be absorbed, Aoda has not shown blitzing capabilities and can have a summon dropped on him, Kirin takes extensive prep to which Deva will have his abilities back or Sasuke will be so pressured he wont be able to use it, CQC against Pain is suicide.



> Animal Path will be instantly annihilated by Susanoo Arrow or just by regular CQC.


Any path can simply pull Animal out of the way or he can use the chameleon and summon from inside of it. CQC against Pain is suicide.


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## UchihaX28 (Sep 10, 2013)

Ennoia said:


> Ok so look the overall point here without the strawmen is that FRS movement speed (not expansion) > Sasuke's arrow speed. So if Nagato can dodge FRS coming at him (not expanding even though he did) then why do you say that he cannot dodge the arrow which is equal to or slower than FRS. I say equal to or slower than because a bossed size FRS was the same speed as the arrow so a smaller one would (by your own admission) be faster.



 It's not slower than FRS. That's ridiculous along with the point that BM Naruto has the extra speed to throw FRS even faster. Susanoo arrow = that speed, so thus, Pain isn't dodging Susanoo Arrow.




> Naruto was crushing the boulders because he could not properly control the chakra arms which is what the training was helping him do, it was foreign to him. What your link shows is more of a speed feat than strength as he merely had to deflect the Bijuu Bombs; IMO that still does not compare to tossing a boss summon or Pa lifting that statue with one hand but for the sake of it I would assume that BM Naruto is equal to SM Naruto's strength making their small FRS relatively the same speed thus the large FRS slower. Overall point here is FRS > arrow in speed because Naruto's strength is equal in both forms (although I think all FRS are the same speed regardless but I will use your opinion here that it varies because of strength).



 He effortlessly lifted a dozen boulders. Is that suddenly not a feat? Why did Naruto use KCM to pull the stake out of the 4 Tails instead of SM Naruto? KCM Naruto is stronger than SM Naruto and BM Naruto is even stronger than that. Blowing something away with sheer speed is amazing. You're basically generating power off your feet to blow something away which is far more impressive than just punching something back. 



> Amaterasu wont be effective because they can dodge it or it can be absorbed, Aoda has not shown blitzing capabilities and can have a summon dropped on him, Kirin takes extensive prep to which Deva will have his abilities back or Sasuke will be so pressured he wont be able to use it, CQC against Pain is suicide.



 It takes extensive prep?

 An easy Enton can summon Kirin. No prep, no chakra used at all. Not only that, Aoda blitzed the 10 Tails clones and reached near the Ten Tails close enough for Naruto and Sasuke to fire an EntonShuriken. With that, Aoda is not going to have a boss dropped on him.




> Any path can simply pull Animal out of the way or he can use the chameleon and summon from inside of it. CQC against Pain is suicide.



 Fair point except he can escape it with Amaterasu. With Susanoo on, he's not going to take any damage from the Pains while he uses an Amaterasu  on the chameleon and then an Amaterasu barrier like he used against Kabuto to catch Asura Path which is highly likely considering he had Asura Path charge near SM Naruto. Asura Path is almost always the one who is sacrificed and charged in battle.


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## SSMG (Sep 11, 2013)

Preta path isnt absorbing amatersaru... pains only shown counter to it is deva path.


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## UchihaX28 (Sep 11, 2013)

^ That's actually a really interesting observation. I can't believe none of us actually noticed that.


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## Blu-ray (Sep 11, 2013)

With full knowledge for him, no knowledge for Pain, and especially no Deva path, Sasuke takes this mid difficulty at the very most. He'll know which paths to pick off and in what order would be most suitable to take them down, all while Pain has no idea on his abilities. Ama takes down Naraka path first so that there will be no reviving. After that it's home free. Asura, Human, and Deva are picked off with unavoidable arrows or Amaterasu, and Aoda takes Preta path. With full knowledge, Sasuke will probably snipe Animal path before it can hide in the Chameleon summon. All this can happen before Deva gets it's powers back.


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## Stermor (Sep 12, 2013)

NarutoX28 said:


> It's not slower than FRS. That's ridiculous along with the point that BM Naruto has the extra speed to throw FRS even faster. Susanoo arrow = that speed, so thus, Pain isn't dodging Susanoo Arrow.



 sasuke has never ever been able to anything of superior speed to pain frs dogde thingie.. remember kakashi was trounced by deva that same kakashi warped the arrow away easily enough(regardless that he thought is was fast) .. pain is dodgin the arrows..

again i really don't understand why people just asume pain lets sasuke do anything?? the moment i would see ms user popping susano.. i would shinra tensie his ass far away.. then just chibaku tensei him..  shinra tensei's boss summons was easy enough.. no reason to think a susanoo would do any better.. 

nothing sasuke can do about this.. sasuke cannot win this unless pain is drunk...


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## UchihaX28 (Sep 12, 2013)

^ Not really considering Susanoo Arrow = BM Naruto's Fuuton RasenShuriken in terms of speed unless you're not paying attention to the manga. Kakashi didn't warp away the arrow easily enough lol. Also, Kakashi isn't anything special until after Kage Summit Arc, so Kakashi being trounced by Deva Path means nothing if Sasuke's able to fight alongside Naruto against the Juubi and even Juubito himself.

 The thing is however, you think a Sick Nagato will have Pain use Chou Shinra Tensei or Chibaku Tensei right at the get go? If that's the case, SM Naruto would've died at the get go. Hell, SM Naruto, the one who beat the Kage would die at the get go.

 Sasuke can win. If he loses to such a weak opponent this far in the manga, it's a disgrace. Sasuke can literally surround himself and turn the battlefield into his advantage with Amaterasu. Sasuke can stay stationary and pick each Path one by one as their mobility is hindered due to Amaterasu.


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## ARGUS (Dec 3, 2013)

Krippy said:


> MS Sasuke would clear this with Mid diff.
> 
> Current Sasuke rolfblitzes.



You are extremely stupid 
Deva and preta alone can murder ms sasukes fodder ass 

As for the battle yes current sasuke beats pain


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## Lord Aizen (Dec 8, 2013)

With full knowledge of course EMS sasuke will win and deva path is out? It's a given


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